00:00:25 <deltab> sbp: it's not even well-formed
00:00:32 <bijan> 62. Edward Lipski I designed the SOAP interface for my company. After 1 full year in service I can assure you: It's pointless.
00:00:42 <bijan> er...there's no such thing as well-formed HTML, is there?
00:01:16 <sbp> deltab: http://www.petitiononline.com/cgi-bin/suggestion.cgi?httpgoog/petition.html
00:01:48 <deltab> urm...
00:01:53 <deltab> GET http://www.prescod.net/rest/googleapi.html --> 200 OK
00:02:03 <deltab> ...
00:02:04 <deltab> <meta http-equiv="Refresh"
00:02:04 <deltab> content="0;url=googleapi">
00:03:23 <syn|ack_> 68.
00:03:24 <syn|ack_> John E. Barham
00:03:24 <syn|ack_> K.I.S.S.
00:03:50 <bijan> I prefer K.I.S.M-F :)
00:03:58 <syn|ack_> M-F ?
00:04:24 <bijan> Er..give it the obvious rude, obscene expansion :)
00:04:41 <syn|ack_> ahh :)
00:05:06 <deltab> Microsoft-what?
00:05:36 <bijan> Ahem. Add what you would add if the "M" expanded to "mother" :)
00:05:43 <deltab> :-)
00:06:12 <sbp> keep it simple, my-friend
00:06:20 <bijan> Oh dear.
00:06:32 <bijan> What's a cleanminded boy like you doing on a channel like this?
00:06:43 <sbp> fuck knows
00:07:12 <syn|ack_> lol
00:09:53 <pawn_> *** pawn_ has quit (Remote closed the connection)
00:09:53 <jillium> *** jillium has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:09:56 <bijan> sean, did you read the note from david orchard on the tag list where he said to paul prescod, essentially: "If you send me *369* VERY LONG EMAILS in 3 months, I will NOT read them all"
00:10:25 <sbp> Hmm... when was that?
00:10:32 <bijan> Last week.
00:11:04 <sbp> must have missed it. When you get 369 very long www-tag emails in three months...
00:12:11 <sbp> aha:-
00:12:11 <sbp> [[[
00:12:11 <sbp> I can't read every message that goes through my mailbox. In the past 3
00:12:11 <sbp> months alone, I've gotten an average of 4 emails a day from you (369 to be
00:12:11 <sbp> exact). And they are all typically long.
00:12:11 <sbp> ]]] - www-tag
00:12:13 <sbp> - http://www.w3.org/2002/02/mid/00d201c1ecab$30486c60$540ba8c0@beasys.com
00:12:30 <bijan> Yep.
00:12:33 <bijan> Hilarious.
00:13:34 <sbp> heh, it is pretty good
00:13:42 <sbp> "RESTafarians"
00:14:01 <bijan> Hmm.
00:14:25 <bijan> is that a slam against prescod?
00:14:33 <sbp> there have been quite a few good www-tag emails
00:15:25 <sbp> the email? it certainly seems to be. but a polite slam :-)
00:16:12 <bijan> No, but isn't RESTafarian a play on rastafarian?
00:16:39 <sbp> yeah... is Paul a Rastafarian?
00:17:02 <bijan> I don't think so.
00:17:20 <bijan> But he's black, isn't he?
00:17:36 <bijan> IOW, I'm wondering if it's some weird racist thing from Orchard.
00:17:45 <bijan> Seems unlikely, but it's also a bit odd.
00:18:04 <sbp> I'm not sure why DO came up with the phrase. I don't think he would have included it to be racist - he was probably just engaging in free association
00:18:15 <sbp> but I see your point
00:20:04 <sbp> and I'll even venture the opinion that it was carless of him. But AFAIK, nobody has complained, or asked him to retract it. As I say, I think it was just an off-the-cuff free-association thing
00:20:35 <bijan> I agree with the former.
00:20:42 <bijan> Well, the first.
00:20:44 <bijan> And the second.
00:20:49 <bijan> Probably the third.
00:39:26 <CygBot> *** CygBot (~sbp@m498-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack
00:39:32 <sbp> heh:-
00:39:34 <sbp> 1$ lynx http://monkeyfist.com/articles/815/plain --source --dump
00:39:39 <CygBot> > <!-- THIS MACHINE KILLS FASCISTS -->
00:39:40 <CygBot> > [...]
00:39:41 <CygBot> *** CygBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:40:04 <bijan> Woody!
00:40:23 <sbp> there are some other good comments in there...
00:41:30 <sbp> * sbp puts on Liege & Lief
01:34:08 <AaronSw> wow, i got some weird pmsgs
01:34:19 <AaronSw> --
01:34:37 <AaronSw> <hitman4ever> hi
01:34:38 <AaronSw> <hitman4ever> u there?
01:34:38 <AaronSw> <hitman4ever> ««« Ë×Çü®§îöñ »»» Version«8.11»| mIRC«v5.81 32bit»| «Get Your Copy At http://excursion.cjb.net » [note this was all in garish yellow and orange]
01:34:38 <AaronSw> <hitman4ever> Oops [same]
01:34:38 <AaronSw> <hitman4ever> *g
01:34:39 <AaronSw> <hitman4ever> okay
01:34:41 <AaronSw> <hitman4ever> ur not
01:34:43 <AaronSw> <hitman4ever> cu
01:34:45 <AaronSw> *** hitman4ever has quit IRC (Client Quit)
01:34:47 <AaronSw> --
01:34:53 <sbp> yeah. he asked for you in here too
01:35:05 <AaronSw> That kendall, still killing fascists after all these years!
01:36:28 <AaronSw> weird, i wonder if he wanted to kill me or something
01:36:29 <AaronSw> heh:
01:36:30 <AaronSw> <!-- Good night, Uncle Noam, wherever you are. -->
01:36:30 <AaronSw>
01:36:30 <AaronSw> <!-- Are you getting tired and lonely? Dump the bosses off your back!. -->
01:37:40 <AaronSw> .wn prima facie
01:37:41 <xena> error: unable to define prima facie
01:37:54 <AaronSw> Hm, I wonder what version its using.
01:39:04 <sbp> .wn wordnet version
01:39:04 <xena> error: unable to define wordnet version
01:39:08 <sbp> oh well
01:39:18 <AaronSw> what's up with markpasc?? oh, got it now
01:40:24 <AaronSw> heh @ <jillzilla> END OF WORLD!
01:41:04 <AaronSw> I just found that two of my friends from school are spending next year abroad in China.
01:41:15 <bijan> prima facie is a latin phrase, I doubt it's in wordnet
01:41:21 <AaronSw> no, it is in 1.6
01:41:32 <bijan> interesting!
01:41:36 <AaronSw> 15th thought: Quick, I must stock them up on Peek-A-Booty CDs.
01:41:38 <deltab> From WordNet (r) 1.6 [wn]:
01:41:38 <deltab> prima facie
01:41:38 <deltab> adj : as it seems at first sight; "a prima facie case of murder"
01:41:38 <deltab> adv : at first sight
01:41:47 <sbp> pre 1.6, then
01:42:27 <deltab> or the command you're using doesn't handle terms with spaces
01:42:54 <AaronSw> ah, good point
01:43:46 <AaronSw> Ben found a Python book that makes sense to him, and got really into IDLE last night. I blame sbp.
01:43:54 <sbp> heh, heh
01:44:36 <bijan> Hmm: Subject: Undeliverable mail--"learn more about how we use your information,"
01:45:55 <bijan> My goodness! 36,000 people paid $30 each to salon!?!?
01:46:07 <bijan> And they still need nasty ads?
01:46:14 <AaronSw> giggle @ <sbp> NLP? in Java? on a 486?
01:47:08 <sbp> I was picturing a big hole in the ground where danbri's computer once was :-)
01:47:08 <AaronSw> a kindred soul: <danbri> MOO's more fun than IRC
01:47:39 <deltab> well of course
01:47:47 <bijan> On the other hand, they claim 3 million readers a month.
01:48:20 <deltab> you have places that can be decorated and objects that can be interacted with
01:48:39 <AaronSw> argh, can't get to danbri's moo
01:49:44 <AaronSw> jillzilla is skepitcal of S-W? hmm
01:50:04 <AaronSw> BenSw is missing a closing paren: (Homeschool today
01:51:09 <sbp> )
01:51:14 <sbp> missing parens really bug me
01:51:24 <sbp> except in smileys
01:51:39 <sbp> since there, the purpose of the character is simply for the glyph
01:52:57 <bijan> "Microsoft: Sanctions could confuse users " Well, *these* "sanctions* confuse *me*.
01:53:16 <bijan> Since what i was expecting was MS to be dismembered like an overboiled trout.
01:53:40 <AaronSw> <syn|ack> He mentioned this channel at that time
01:53:40 <AaronSw> ah, so that's what the q was for
01:54:15 <Ash> *** Ash (~amathews@166.70.45.199) has joined #swhack
01:54:31 <AaronSw> here, here! bijan
01:55:23 <jillium> *** jillium (~jill@dsl092-186-227.sfo2.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #swhack
01:55:27 <sbp> jiiiill!
01:55:30 <jillium> sbp!
01:55:40 <jillium> * jillium has her network working with the new hub.
01:55:44 <jillium> Now to find deltab.
01:55:44 <sbp> 'ray
01:55:49 <AaronSw> gasp! <jillzilla> I don't believe the "oll korrect" theory for the etymology of OK.
01:56:00 <sbp> ah. she was simply misinformed
01:56:02 <jillium> I do now.
01:56:06 <jillium> I even *like* it now.
01:56:07 <AaronSw> phew
01:56:21 <AaronSw> Anti-bell ringing and oll that
01:56:26 <sbp> heh, heh
01:56:35 <AaronSw> * AaronSw tries to find jillium finding deltab
01:56:41 <jillium> * jillium blinks.
01:56:44 <deltab> hi jillium
01:56:44 <jillium> I have a server for him!
01:56:47 <sbp> * sbp tries to find Aaron finding... no...
01:56:51 <jillium> but don't tell him...ooops!
01:57:01 <jillium> dear me.
01:57:12 <deltab> yes, dear you
01:57:24 <jillium> * jillium flutters eyelashes.
01:57:28 <AaronSw> heh @ <sbp> <jillzilla> touché (latin for...)
01:57:34 <sbp> Dear Jill, it has come to our attention that you're using the phrase "dear me" and awful lot...
01:57:44 <jillium> I've been doing that for years.
01:57:45 <sbp> heh! I was hoping you'd find that
01:58:14 <jillium> AaronSw: must you read logs in public? It's a terrible habit, you know. Soon you will be picking your nose.
01:58:19 <sbp> it's a nice idiosyncrasy
01:58:22 <AaronSw> :-)
01:58:24 <jillium> deltab: um, are you here?
01:58:32 <AaronSw> * AaronSw decides not to comment on the nose bit
01:58:32 <deltab> I believe so
01:58:44 <jillium> are you interested in this server thing
01:58:45 <jillium> ?
01:58:45 <AaronSw> thank goodness for t2s, I can read scrollback while answering current questions
01:58:56 <deltab> jillium: of course
01:59:01 <sbp> this email was sent via. a feedback form, therefore it's spam
01:59:06 <jillium> Are you somewhere I can phone you?
01:59:18 <deltab> I'm in the UK
01:59:27 <jillium> I know. Are you phonable?
01:59:35 <jillium> * jillium phones the UK all the time.
01:59:36 <AaronSw> lol @ <Ash> * sbp CHUCKLES!@!! AHAHAHAHA ROFFLE@!@!111
01:59:47 <AaronSw> :-) @ <jillzilla> Yeah, Ash, you really captured sbp's style there.
01:59:52 <Ash> hehehe
02:00:03 <sbp> ROFFLE!!
02:00:06 <Ash> I know, I'm an IRC artist.
02:00:08 <jillium> we're so witty when Aaron isn't around.
02:00:13 <jillium> AaronSw, that is.
02:00:17 <Ash> And sbp has adopted his new style.
02:00:21 <AaronSw> Either one triggers t2s
02:00:25 <Ash> jillium: Indeed.
02:00:35 <sbp> heh, heh. you guys certainly have strange notions of "art"
02:00:42 <sbp> well, just Ash
02:00:57 <jillium> * jillium wonders wth deltab is doing.
02:01:06 <Ash> sbp: Heh heh.
02:01:30 <jillium> deltab: let's get this going, ffs. It's not good for me to be sitting here rather than doing what I had planned for Saturday.
02:01:39 <Ash> ffs!
02:01:41 <AaronSw> Ash, I used to watch Blues... oh, this channel is logged
02:01:47 <Ash> * Ash wonders what jillium is doing with ffs
02:01:51 <sbp> nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no *more*!
02:01:52 <bijan> Eh...amaya 6.0's SVG rendering is a *little* better, I think. Still nowhere near the quality of the adobe plugin.
02:01:57 <Ash> AaronSw: Blues clues is not the same without Steve :-(
02:02:06 <jillium> Have you seen it with...is it Joe?
02:02:06 <AaronSw> Steve is Gone?!?!?!?!
02:02:09 <jillium> STEVE IS GONE!
02:02:17 <jillium> * jillium was the first to report this on #infoanarchy.
02:02:24 <jillium> But I learned it from the web site.
02:02:27 <deltab> jillium: sorry, was fetching handset from downstairs
02:02:32 <AaronSw> I thought that he was just joking when he fell over after I shot that... oh, this channel is logged
02:02:32 <jillium> aha.
02:02:45 <sbp> heh, heh
02:03:04 <jillium> deltab: i ask because it's something like 3am there.
02:03:12 <AaronSw> We were at Nick Studios, and he was filming some international commercials, and I just wanted to say hello but it got all out of hand... all out of hand!
02:03:14 <AaronSw> * AaronSw cries
02:03:22 <jillium> * jillium cries too.
02:03:30 <jillium> Who? Steve?
02:03:50 <Ash> jillium: I have not seen this joe yet.
02:04:04 <Ash> We don't have cable, but can see blue's clues on saturday morning.
02:04:15 <Ash> @ http://www.steveswebpage.com/
02:04:32 <jillium> I wonder if I have cable.
02:04:41 <AaronSw> so unfair, Monty Python weekend...
02:04:45 <jillium> I watched television the other day.
02:04:45 <Ash> Oh man.
02:04:47 <chumpy> A: http://www.steveswebpage.com/ from Ash
02:04:53 <Ash> A::STEVE RULES
02:05:09 <chumpy> commented item A
02:05:41 <sbp> there are rules for Steve?
02:05:54 <AaronSw> is jeremiah here?
02:06:08 <sbp> idle time: 5hrs 55mins 30secs
02:08:40 <AaronSw> lol @ <bijan> Er..give it the obvious rude, obscene expansion :)
02:08:40 <AaronSw> <deltab> Microsoft-what?
02:10:24 <AaronSw> i love os x. i can pull out the ethernet cord and my irc connection doesn't die
02:11:11 <sbp> I wonder how it would handle the shovel smashing test?
02:11:28 <sbp> to be fair, most OSes don't pass it
02:11:30 <AaronSw> That doesn't sound like something I want to try.
02:12:07 <AaronSw> hm? @ <bijan> Woody!
02:12:16 <bijan> Guthrie
02:12:23 <bijan> "This machine kills facists"
02:12:48 <bijan> See: http://www.subvertise.org/details.php?code=238
02:12:55 <bijan> That's where kendall got it from.
02:14:03 <AaronSw> oh, right
02:14:26 <AaronSw> whoa, steve grew a beard
02:14:54 <jillium> I can imagine he would want to look older.
02:15:00 <jillium> In order to get laid in this lifetime...
02:15:30 <AaronSw> heh: will you appear at my child's birthday party? thanks for asking, but um no.
02:16:02 <AaronSw> the ftrain.com connection is pretty clear
02:16:26 <bijan> Huh?
02:16:39 <bijan> Hmm. I should write a parody of my own article using this: http://www.google.com/technology/pigeonrank.html
02:16:50 <AaronSw> heh
02:16:53 <AaronSw> steveswebpage was designed by the ftrain guy
02:17:06 <bijan> Paul? really?
02:17:23 <AaronSw> so he says
02:18:05 <bijan> Hmm. http://www.steveswebpage.com gives me a big set of non-pics :)
02:18:10 <bijan> i shall have to rag paul about it.
02:18:25 <AaronSw> "(also paul helped build this web site and runs ftrain.com)"
02:18:32 <jillium> I'm getting "service temporarily unavailable". Hmm.
02:18:40 <jillium> not the second time...
02:18:44 <AaronSw> ugh, me too
02:18:57 <AaronSw> * AaronSw tries to download some dust mite songs
02:19:00 <bijan> I'll definitely have to link to paul's google article: http://www.ftrain.com/robot_exclusion_protocol.html
02:19:19 <AaronSw> * AaronSw gets affirmed by steve
02:19:25 <bijan> ``I am Google! I find many good things. I find that pair of underwear with the little dice printed all over them. And I watch the tape of you with the life-sized Stallman puppet. These are good unique things."
02:19:28 <jillium> steve's web site is a touch overloaded, I think.
02:20:51 <sbp> SMAK!
02:21:25 <AaronSw> Woo, Google is indexing the wiki again
02:21:29 <AaronSw> * AaronSw cheers for himself
02:21:39 <sbp> great!
02:21:44 <sbp> well done old chap
02:21:49 <jillium> * jillium #whistles.
02:21:53 <AaronSw> [dun, dun, dun] THE WIKI
02:23:04 <sbp> ooh, sheepchops!
02:23:23 <AaronSw> this dustmites thing isn't bad
02:23:50 <Ash> Yeah, it's not.
02:24:44 <jillium> distmites thing?
02:25:04 <AaronSw> steve's album, songs for dust mites
02:27:01 <sbp> personally, I'm not sure that dust mites deserve to have songs written about them. of course, I could be wrong. actually, it's a very interesting subject. who are we to judge whether or not these tiny little annoying creatures should have songs written about them? I mean, they may even play an important role in the world that we are unaware of, and hence writing a song about them would be a fully justifyable thing to do. OTOH, perhaps they really are just annoying
02:27:57 <AaronSw> even his squirrel is in a band: http://www.steveswebpage.com/squirrels_01.html
02:28:06 <AaronSw> got cur off at "perhaps they really are just annoying "
02:28:17 <sbp> [...] little things that don't matter. I find that difficult to believe, because they've certainly had *some* effect, [...]
02:34:27 <AaronSw> rave reviews for 6171talk: "Nice article. It actually persuades me that the Semantic Web might happen."
02:34:41 <sbp> source? NYT?
02:34:51 <AaronSw> Private email
02:34:51 <bijan> Oh, I had some more bits to slag you on.
02:34:54 <bijan> About that.
02:35:03 <bijan> But only if your head gets too swollen :)
02:35:07 <AaronSw> on the long-form version? go ahead
02:35:20 <bijan> no, i forgot 'em all.
02:35:33 <bijan> And I don't remember the url.
02:35:42 <sbp> .google 6171talk
02:35:42 <AaronSw> aaronsw.com/2002/6171talk/talk
02:35:43 <xena> no results found.
02:35:46 <bijan> And my irc client isn't letting through any urls that I don't wan tot see.
02:35:53 <AaronSw> heh
02:35:57 <bijan> (Thank GOD for smalltalk!)
02:36:33 <bijan> After all, slag slag slag and no acknowledgement! :)
02:36:58 <bijan> Would it have killed you to have but a "This talk was ptdbb" at the bottom?
02:37:25 <sbp> privately taken down by Betty?
02:37:36 <bijan> pecked to death by bijan
02:37:54 <AaronSw> neat: "Congratulations! You have passed part one of the two-part application process to become a Google Answers Researcher."
02:38:00 <AaronSw> what's part two? getting pecked to death?
02:38:05 <sbp> heh, heh
02:38:07 <bijan> peck peck peck.
02:38:17 <sbp> part two: "are you 18 or over?"
02:38:23 <AaronSw> lol!
02:38:28 <bijan> "Listen, you didn't really want to ask that question did yoU? At least, not in *that* way."
02:38:46 <AaronSw> there are some fun questions. like "Who am I?
02:38:59 <AaronSw> and "should i become a rock star or an academic?"
02:39:07 <bijan> "I mean, if you consider what one *should* mean by 'foo', it's clear you *couldn't* have meant 'Is foo a bar?'"
02:39:38 <AaronSw> OK, no one give an account to bijan
02:40:06 <bijan> And account of what?
02:40:12 <bijan> s/and/an/
02:40:28 <AaronSw> a google researcher account
02:40:30 <bijan> "Hello. I would have answered your question but there were too many fuckin' typos."
02:40:39 <bijan> Kendall's applied to.
02:40:42 <bijan> too
02:40:43 <bijan> Not me.
02:40:47 <bijan> Not yet at least.
02:41:03 <bijan> Why get paid when I already do it for ungrateful losers for free?
02:41:05 <bijan> Uh.......
02:41:28 <AaronSw> * AaronSw coughs
02:42:00 <bijan> Well, let's take it one step at a time.
02:42:06 <sbp> a nice big raddish lead
02:42:17 <bijan> I'm trying to wean myself *off* answering stuff for ungrateful losers for free.
02:42:30 <AaronSw> Aw.
02:42:52 <bijan> Actually, off answering blah blahblah at *all*.
02:43:05 <AaronSw> motivational quotes: "I'll never get off this planet." - Luke Skywalker
02:44:14 <sbp> is the "eeeee" sound in "lead" long or short to you guys?
02:44:23 <bijan> Depends.
02:44:24 <sbp> well... eeeee implies long
02:44:53 <bijan> verb or metal?
02:44:57 <sbp> as in "a nice big raddish lead"
02:45:05 <bijan> Er..
02:45:09 <bijan> It's silent in that.
02:45:23 <sbp> no it's not. you must have instinctively read it one way or t'other
02:45:27 <bijan> In "take the lead" it's eeeeee
02:45:28 <bijan> Nope.
02:45:37 <bijan> In "lead figurines" it's edd.
02:45:50 <bijan> Unless you pronouce 'edd' as 'eeeeeeeeeeedd'
02:45:54 <sbp> gah, Aaron?
02:45:59 <AaronSw> what?
02:46:08 <bijan> wha'ts a raddish lead?
02:46:11 <sbp> edie's in the space-time continuum? heh
02:46:18 <sbp> lead: leeeed, or led?
02:46:28 <bijan> it *depends*!
02:46:55 <AaronSw> lead is always leed
02:47:07 <jillium> except when it's led.
02:47:08 <AaronSw> er, unless it's the metal
02:47:09 <bijan> er..NO NO NO :)_
02:47:10 <sbp> thank you!
02:47:36 <sbp> I still think that there is an out-of-context default for people
02:47:46 <AaronSw> note, "the" metal, not like a metal leed
02:47:54 <sbp> heh, heh
02:48:12 <bijan> A lead pencil.
02:48:19 <bijan> Which involves no metal :)
02:48:31 <sbp> it could be the winner of a pencil race
02:48:38 <bijan> As elementary school teacher love to tell you over and over.
02:48:47 <bijan> Just like a tomato is a fruit.
02:49:09 <bijan> What about leading in typography?
02:49:34 <sbp> Michael Everson is the leading typographer
02:50:02 <bijan> Er..ok. I'm not getting the schtick, and, deep down in side, I don't at all care.
02:50:11 <bijan> Actually, up top on the surface I don't care either :)
02:50:16 <sbp> heh, heh
02:50:38 <sbp> these things are important to me for some reason or another
02:50:41 <bijan> Was that 'heh, heh', 'heeeeeeeh, heeeeeeeeh', or 'head, head'
02:50:51 <bijan> Oh, why is easy: You're deranged.
02:50:56 <sbp> it's pronounced "bwahahahahaha"
02:51:17 <bijan> BTW, you may be interested: http://www.addall.com/New/BestSeller.cgi?location=10000&state=AK&dispCurr=USD&isbn=0805366814&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.addall.com%2FBrowse%2FDetail%2F0805366814.html&author=&title=
02:51:24 <bijan> Or, given the URL, maybe not.
02:51:41 <sbp> a*ha*!
02:51:58 <sbp> 23.48: not too bad, actually
02:52:04 <bijan> yep.
02:52:11 <bijan> Quite good in fact.
02:54:01 <Ash> *** Ash has quit ("hail satan")
03:10:20 <AaronSw> oh, this is great!
03:10:21 <AaronSw> @ http://www.dreamsongs.com/WorseIsBetter.html
03:10:57 <chumpy> B: http://www.dreamsongs.com/WorseIsBetter.html from AaronSw
03:11:14 <AaronSw> B:|Behind the Scenes of "Worse is Better"
03:11:34 <chumpy> titled item B
03:11:55 <AaronSw> B::"One fellow was seriously nervous that I might have a mental disease."
03:12:12 <chumpy> commented item B
03:25:42 <AaronSw> Listening to radiohead is weird. I never know if the t2s is the song or IRC.
03:26:36 <bijan> IRC is the Song.
03:26:45 <AaronSw> Ah.
03:26:59 <AaronSw> Danny O'Brian: "Remember: Your work email may be monitored if sending sensitive material. Sending >500KB attachments is forbidden by the Geneva Convention. Your country may be at risk if you fail to comply."
03:28:32 <AaronSw> * AaronSw listens to http://www.ntk.net/2002/04/26/riaa_we_love_you.mp3
03:28:37 <AaronSw> "the entire music foodchain is at serious risk"
03:28:59 <AaronSw> "no question the most insidious virus in the midst of this insidious downloading of music is downloading on the net"
03:29:08 <AaronSw> [eerie music]
03:32:23 <AaronSw> freudian slip at foodchain, there
03:32:26 <AaronSw> *chomp*
03:34:45 <AaronSw> The Invader Zim world is so freaky
03:36:31 <davb> Zim!
03:36:40 <jillium> zim!
03:37:21 <AaronSw> Zim!
03:38:07 <jillium> ZIM!
03:38:16 <davb> I love that show.
03:39:13 <AaronSw> "we have claimed this downed alien loveship and want to share it with all humanity. but humanity must first prove itself worthy"
03:39:36 <sbp> Zim?!
03:39:46 <davb> kinda like what you guys do here.
03:40:50 <sbp> exactly!
03:41:17 <sbp> it's ever so almost nearly a clear shwacky definition of swhack
03:43:37 <AaronSw> "i am government man. come from the government. the government has sent me. oh ho ho. this is no alien lifeform, this is a government aircraft."
03:53:42 <jeremiah> hey
03:53:51 <Ash> *** Ash (~amathews@166.70.45.199) has joined #swhack
03:54:02 <jeremiah> AaronSw: can I use infogami to date as a triples database?
03:54:03 <jeremiah> is that what it is?
03:54:16 <AaronSw> yep
03:54:18 <jeremiah> ok
03:54:20 <Ash> Re
03:54:21 <jeremiah> what interface do I use?
03:54:25 <AaronSw> "welcome to conventium, the convention hall planet"
03:54:33 <AaronSw> Store(
03:55:16 <jeremiah> ok
03:55:38 <jeremiah> wow, I'm acutally reusing my own code
03:55:49 <jeremiah> * jeremiah just noticed the line: __author__ = "Jeremiah Rogers <http://kingprimate.com/>"
03:55:53 <jeremiah> jesus
03:56:44 <AaronSw> :-)
03:57:39 <jeremiah> * jeremiah is working on a desktop search-engine type thing
03:57:42 <jeremiah> but cooler
03:58:27 <AaronSw> Neat.
03:58:36 <AaronSw> that pleshdesktop thing you described?
03:58:38 <jeremiah> http://kingprimate.com/gems/googleDesktop.opml
03:58:48 <jeremiah> did you read the earlier logs?
03:58:49 <jeremiah> yes
03:59:06 <AaronSw> * AaronSw reads
03:59:14 <jeremiah> well, there is nothing of substance in the logs
03:59:17 <jeremiah> so don't worry
03:59:23 <jeremiah> but yes, I was talking about it earlier
04:01:28 <AaronSw> Hm, on here?
04:01:34 <jeremiah> I think so
04:01:38 <jeremiah> doesn't matter
04:02:09 <AaronSw> i read thru all the logs and didn't see it... hmm
04:02:16 <jeremiah> don't worry though
04:02:21 <jeremiah> I just asked deltab if he knew about infogami
04:02:24 <jeremiah> he said he didn't
04:02:46 <jeremiah> you mentioned me talking about a pleshdesktop earlier though
04:02:47 <jeremiah> what was that?
04:03:06 <syn|ack_> Can anyone point me to a good howto XPath resource?
04:03:36 <jeremiah> * jeremiah really enjoys python's "import x as y" thing
04:03:39 <AaronSw> oh, right. the pleshdesktop thing was on your weblog
04:03:52 <jeremiah> ah
04:04:04 <deltab> jeremiah: don't overuse it or you'll confuse people :-)
04:04:20 <jeremiah> hmm
04:07:59 <jeremiah> the only problem with using store is that I want to be able to delete old entries
04:08:06 <jeremiah> or nullify them
04:08:34 <AaronSw> Hm, I guess we can add a deletion mechanism.
04:09:50 <jeremiah> well basically I need to store: the relationships between fileids, the files which correspond to fileids, the fileids postion in the filerank, and the fileid's metadata
04:10:50 <AaronSw> storing the actual file or just its location?
04:10:57 <jeremiah> location
04:11:04 <jeremiah> going ot use the filesystem to store the file, at least for now
04:11:07 <sbp> .google Zvon XPath
04:11:08 <AaronSw> have you read any Ted Nelson?
04:11:09 <xena> Zvon XPath: http://www.zvon.org/xxl/XPathTutorial/General/examples.html
04:11:14 <jeremiah> AaronSw: no
04:11:17 <sbp> syn|ack: there you go
04:11:55 <jeremiah> is this for storing the file locations, or should I use it for other stuff too?
04:12:15 <jeremiah> * jeremiah is looking, btw
04:12:17 <AaronSw> is what?
04:12:22 <jeremiah> xpath
04:12:31 <jeremiah> I mean is there other ted nelson stuff I should look at
04:12:41 <AaronSw> I think XPath is for synack
04:13:02 <AaronSw> Ted Nelson: I think Future of Information touched on this
04:13:21 <wmf> *** wmf (~wmf@cs666869-177.austin.rr.com) has joined #swhack
04:13:24 <syn|ack_> sbp: i've read that one, but i find it a bit terse....
04:13:27 <wmf> swhack!
04:13:38 <syn|ack_> sbp: anything a bit more verbose?
04:13:40 <AaronSw> wmf!
04:13:53 <AaronSw> Teacher: "In short, the universe is doomed, DOOMED, DOOOOOOOOOOOMED!"
04:13:53 <syn|ack_> * syn|ack_ is thick and needs clarity :)
04:14:16 <jillium> God, I have to see more Zim.
04:14:16 <jeremiah> AaronSw: FoI talked about search-engines on desktops or what?
04:14:25 <AaronSw> Yeah, for that.
04:14:42 <jeremiah> hrm
04:14:43 <AaronSw> but you should probably read his classic, Literary Machines, first.
04:14:43 <AaronSw> .google s
04:14:44 <xena> s: http://www.gnu.org
04:14:51 <AaronSw> .google m
04:14:52 <xena> m: http://www.echo.lu
04:14:56 <AaronSw> weird
04:15:04 <jeremiah> I realize the importance of reading up, but I'd rather not read 2 books before I get started on my project
04:15:10 <jeremiah> unless they're extremely relevant
04:15:18 <jeremiah> and should be read before I start working
04:15:29 <AaronSw> OK, just read them sometime.
04:15:32 <jeremiah> alright
04:16:42 <wmf> AaronSw: did you read this one? http://www.dreamsongs.com/NewFiles/WhitherSoftware.pdf page 9 looks like REST vs RPC
04:16:55 <AaronSw> hm, no. it was pdf... let me grab it
04:17:42 <jeremiah> can't find much on nelson except stuff about xanadu
04:18:16 <AaronSw> they're in some nasty fax format as i recall
04:18:30 <wmf> poor Ted Nelson, wrote himself out of history
04:18:38 <AaronSw> wrote himself out?
04:18:40 <Ash> jeremiah: Check out Cringley's documentary and see him get pissed off on camera
04:18:42 <Ash> heh heh
04:18:48 <AaronSw> ash, which one?
04:18:58 <Ash> AaronSw: Umm.. the one he did on the internet.
04:19:04 <Ash> Similar to 'Triumph of the Nerds'
04:19:08 <AaronSw> Hm...
04:19:08 <jeremiah> hmm
04:19:11 <Ash> * Ash looks up title
04:19:19 <AaronSw> literary machines: http://www.sfc.keio.ac.jp/~ted/TN/PUBS/LM/LMpage.html
04:19:28 <Ash> .google cringley nerds documentary
04:19:29 <xena> cringley nerds documentary: http://www.techtv.com/screensavers/supergeek/story/0,24330,10930,00.html
04:19:33 <Ash> hrm
04:19:39 <Ash> Oh, it's Nerds 2.0.1
04:19:39 <AaronSw> nerds 2.0.1?
04:19:40 <Ash> there you go.
04:19:41 <Ash> Yup.
04:19:42 <AaronSw> snap
04:19:45 <wmf> AaronSw: he kept Xanadu details secret until after the Web exploded; then it was too late for people to use his ideas
04:19:56 <AaronSw> Ah.
04:20:07 <AaronSw> They're still secret, for all the sense they make.
04:20:12 <wmf> indeed
04:20:22 <Ash> They're like Userland "RFC's"
04:20:23 <Ash> bwahaha
04:20:50 <Ash> * Ash actually goes to read
04:20:51 <jeremiah> userland pushes ideas out pretty quick
04:21:13 <AaronSw> uh oh. an Ash-jeremiah userland fight
04:21:18 <Ash> Heh.
04:21:29 <jeremiah> so anyways, back to my problem with needing to delete certain triples
04:21:35 <Ash> AaronSw: I'm too tired to make fun of UserLand.. I must go read :)
04:21:42 <AaronSw> have fun
04:21:45 <wmf> I'll just ignore this and go back to coding Radio 9 :-)
04:22:49 <jeremiah> I need to stop reading weblogs, it eats so much fucking time
04:22:59 <AaronSw> no kidding
04:23:47 <jeremiah> I feel bad now because I want to read those books but I don't like dropping everything to read 'em
04:24:31 <AaronSw> hm, i am tempted to buy a copy from eastgate
04:24:38 <davb> has anyone seen Zoe?
04:24:44 <AaronSw> I've downloaded it.
04:24:56 <davb> what do you think?
04:25:05 <davb> it won't run on my linux machine.
04:25:09 <AaronSw> It seemed to complicated to import mail, so i gave up
04:25:13 <davb> ah.
04:25:17 <wmf> man, some of Gabriel's stuff is really zen
04:25:42 <davb> I have an idea to do something like that. but I think I want to have it read mail from a Maildir.
04:25:48 <jeremiah> zoe partly got me thinking about this whole search engine thing
04:26:13 <jeremiah> that and itunes
04:27:03 <AaronSw> here's a ted nelson summary: hierarchies are evil. links provide freedom. go forth and create.
04:27:11 <jeremiah> cool
04:27:12 <jillium> LINK!
04:27:15 <jeremiah> that's basically what I was thinking
04:27:37 <wmf> uh oh, I think jillium's about to go into "I index everything!" mode
04:27:47 <jillium> * jillium ignores robots.txt.
04:27:53 <wmf> nooooo
04:27:58 <jillium> * jillium indexes wmf's socks.
04:28:19 <wmf> heh
04:28:20 <jillium> Hmmm, value added would be to tell wmf that white socks are just uncool.
04:28:20 <jeremiah> * jeremiah indexes wmf's socks
04:28:26 <deltab> haha
04:28:56 <jillium> * jillium indexes wmf's love life.
04:28:58 <jillium> * jillium finishes
04:29:01 <jillium> hmm.
04:29:08 <wmf> heh
04:29:11 <jillium> :-)
04:29:19 <wmf> not much there
04:29:25 <jillium> (actually, I would index my love life in no time at all, so...)
04:29:35 <jillium> * jillium indexes wmf's ambitions.
04:29:40 <jillium> * jillium is rapidly overloaded!
04:29:40 <AaronSw> * AaronSw indexes chilled DSL routers
04:29:41 <jeremiah> I wonder what would happen if google tried to index itself
04:29:44 <jeremiah> end of the universe...
04:29:49 <jillium> google does index itself.
04:29:53 <jeremiah> really?
04:29:55 <jillium> yes.
04:30:01 <jeremiah> good to know
04:30:03 <AaronSw> but it follows robots.txt (boo)
04:30:04 <jillium> heh
04:30:11 <wmf> I'm sure jill tried that once, until she filled up the disks :-)
04:30:21 <jillium> AaronSw: it _obeys_ robots.txt!
04:30:32 <wmf> and then she probably unleashed some script that deleted half the index
04:30:32 <jeremiah> wow this Store database is a bitch if you wanna remove stuff
04:30:35 <AaronSw> I was going to put up a robots.txt filter.
04:30:48 <jillium> wmf: I tried to index my log of sexual exploits....wow, you've never seen such a crash.
04:30:53 <AaronSw> jeremiah, instead of removing stuff, try versioning it
04:31:07 <jillium> jesus, what am I saying on log?
04:31:13 <jeremiah> AaronSw: I only have 3 values
04:31:20 <jillium> * jillium indexes the phrase "Career Limiting Move".
04:31:25 <jeremiah> versioning would be difficult, I would think
04:31:29 <jeremiah> but maybe better
04:31:33 <AaronSw> .google "Career Limiting Move"
04:31:34 <xena> "Career Limiting Move": http://www.mygiftcoach.org/stories/storyReader$284
04:31:44 <AaronSw> Don't kill information, archive it.
04:31:56 <AaronSw> re mygiftcoach: Sorry! There was an error: Can't display story 284 because it doesn't exist.
04:32:03 <jillium> I got that too.
04:32:04 <jillium> * jillium sobs.
04:32:15 <AaronSw> and when i visit the website, i get another result
04:32:31 <AaronSw> a book called "Help! Was that a Career Limiting Move?"
04:32:52 <jillium> The best part is the ads you get for "career limiting move"
04:32:55 <AaronSw> .google cache:http://www.mygiftcoach.org/stories/storyReader$284
04:32:55 <xena> cache:http://www.mygiftcoach.org/stories/storyReader$284: "http://www.myGiftCoach.org/discuss/msgReader$284"
04:33:24 <AaronSw> .foldoc career limiting move
04:33:25 <xena> error: unable to define career limiting move
04:33:25 <jeremiah> so we'd have one triple: fileid locationversion n, and another triple fileid n location. That's two triples I suppose for each value I want to store
04:33:38 <jeremiah> can you think of a better way to do versions?
04:33:50 <AaronSw> one sec
04:35:01 <sbp> lol @ robots.txt, and crash
04:35:38 <AaronSw> "fileid n location" says fileid is a member of the location group?
04:35:49 <sbp> Gotta run
04:36:13 <jeremiah> not sure if we understand: we used fileid, and the version number n, to find the location
04:36:31 <AaronSw> oh, this is for files moving on the hard drive?
04:36:40 <jeremiah> well, it's just an example of versioning
04:37:11 <jeremiah> it might also be used for relationships between files, especially if we want to terminate a relationship between to files
04:37:16 <AaronSw> "Do you feel like school(or work) is your real life and weekends are an escape or weekends are your real life and school is something you have to put up with?" - that's what killed me in the end.
04:38:09 <AaronSw> Ok, so comments on the basic idea first.
04:38:15 <wmf> yeah, work is my real life and school was just a detour on the way to work
04:38:33 <AaronSw> wmf, the corporate drone
04:38:36 <AaronSw> "heirarchial but rearranges itself" - why is it hierarchical?
04:38:51 <jeremiah> AaronSw: it can show you a heriarchy in the search
04:38:54 <wmf> hey! I am not a corporate drone!
04:38:56 <jeremiah> it isn't actually heriarchial
04:39:02 <AaronSw> ah.
04:39:08 <jeremiah> for instance: you search for pictures
04:39:15 <AaronSw> I think what you really want is BFS 2.0
04:39:30 <jeremiah> uhm
04:39:42 <jeremiah> when you say that it makes me feel like you only read that one sentence of my document
04:39:42 <AaronSw> BFS is the Be File System
04:39:50 <AaronSw> I read the whole document.
04:39:53 <jeremiah> alright
04:39:58 <jeremiah> and you think BFS does that?
04:40:12 <AaronSw> Pretty clearly.
04:40:16 <jeremiah> hmm
04:40:20 <jeremiah> well no one uses it tha tway
04:40:24 <AaronSw> back me up here, wmf
04:40:41 <wmf> whoops, I was in the other channel
04:40:46 <jeremiah> * jeremiah sighs repeatedly and bangs his head against a brick wall
04:40:52 <wmf> what's the question again?
04:41:11 <AaronSw> does be allow one to assign metadata "keywords" to files?
04:41:13 <jeremiah> does http://kingprimate.com/gems/googleDesktop.opml remind you fo BFS
04:41:33 <AaronSw> like all these files are about trips, new jersey, fishing
04:41:36 <wmf> well, I have The Book *right* here, so...
04:41:42 <AaronSw> and then search for arbitrary intersections
04:41:52 <AaronSw> and unions
04:42:01 <jeremiah> AaronSw: well why does BFS use the standard interface that everyone else does for files then?
04:42:09 <AaronSw> that's a sideshow
04:42:12 <jeremiah> hmm
04:42:31 <AaronSw> here's an example: BFS email stores the to, from, subject metadata in the filesystem
04:42:32 <jeremiah> I mean, they implemented it and then died, and I want to use it, so I need something that does it
04:42:49 <AaronSw> you can click in the search window and type the gyys name, and all his emails show up immediate
04:42:54 <AaronSw> you can save the search to a file
04:42:55 <jeremiah> interesting
04:43:35 <jeremiah> but in that case Zoe is also quite a bit like BFS
04:43:45 <AaronSw> is it? i'm curious to play with zoe
04:43:47 <AaronSw> and interwingle
04:43:53 <jeremiah> well it looks like a searchengine for email
04:43:57 <jeremiah> from what I've seen
04:44:07 <wmf> ok, the book says you can use regexes in queries
04:45:02 <AaronSw> the thing was Be did this for all files
04:45:08 <AaronSw> mp3s had id3 tags in the filesystem, etc
04:45:13 <jeremiah> ok
04:45:21 <AaronSw> you have a windows machine? you should install Be
04:45:28 <jeremiah> I have Be
04:45:31 <AaronSw> Ah.
04:45:36 <jeremiah> It has a habit
04:45:39 <jeremiah> of ruining my computers
04:45:45 <jeremiah> not sure how or why or if it's just suspician
04:45:49 <jeremiah> but every time I've run Be
04:45:54 <jeremiah> I've burned out a processor
04:45:58 <AaronSw> sample size?
04:45:58 <jeremiah> at least on this computer
04:46:01 <wmf> but the bad news is that queries are only fast when doing exact matches
04:46:12 <AaronSw> that makes sense, wmf
04:46:55 <davb> aha.
04:47:03 <davb> oops. wrong channel
04:47:27 <AaronSw> aha: http://www.byte.com/documents/s=575/byt20010228s0001/index.htm
04:47:37 <AaronSw> scot hacker on the file system
04:47:42 <AaronSw> that should be good
04:47:59 <jeremiah> hmm
04:48:05 <davb> AaronSw: you would still want a full text index to get the maximum interwingleness?
04:48:25 <jeremiah> now what about the idea of finding one file; selecting it; having a list of other files related to it show up; selecting them; finding the file you were looking for
04:48:30 <AaronSw> well full text is nice, but usually slow or takes up lots of disk space
04:48:37 <davb> ah, that is true.
04:48:48 <AaronSw> jer, for what value of related?
04:49:01 <jeremiah> AaronSw: you relate files to each other by dragging them into each other
04:49:19 <AaronSw> bidirectional relation? typed?
04:49:28 <jeremiah> two types
04:49:31 <jeremiah> parental and peer
04:49:45 <AaronSw> and peer creates classes, i assume?
04:49:48 <wmf> full-text indexing is cheap when your disk is mostly emtpy anyway
04:50:32 <jeremiah> a parent is like a folder, all it's children are related to it but not on the same level as it, peers is like the relationship files in a folder have to each other
04:52:16 <jeremiah> so if you select a file and it searches for relationships it will come up with all the files that are children of that file and all the peers, arranged accordingly
04:52:49 <davb> but you have to manually link the files?
04:53:05 <jeremiah> not really, you can, but the idea was that programs would do it for you
04:53:13 <davb> ah,
04:53:15 <davb> ok.
04:53:46 <jeremiah> they gradually develop the relationships, which are basically links, and then the program would crawl them and develop an index like google's relationship index
04:53:51 <AaronSw> ok, i can't resist anymore, i'm installing BeOS
04:54:02 <jeremiah> hmm
04:54:33 <davb> are we talking email, or the whole hard drive?
04:55:03 <jeremiah> but what I was thinking is that webloggers talk about google on the deskop but it won't work because google runs on links, which is what makes it's result so relevant, and people talked about a next-generation filesystem being based on searches, but those searchs would be just as irrelevant
04:55:14 <jeremiah> every file, but mainly the files you work with, your home directory, not system files
04:55:22 <AaronSw> wmf, page 9 does sound like that. i get it he's pro-REST?
04:55:27 <wmf> yep
04:55:33 <davb> jeremiah: ok.
04:55:41 <AaronSw> always a little bit goofy
04:56:05 <davb> jeremiah: the tricky part if going to be programming the software that decides it two files should be linked.
04:56:28 <AaronSw> eek! be.com is for sale
04:56:31 <wmf> AaronSw is only about 5 years behind the BeOS trend... :-)
04:56:47 <davb> i was thinking a full text index that would calculate links on the fly.
04:56:49 <AaronSw> Heh, I downloaded it years ago, but I was young then...
04:56:55 <jeremiah> davb: both
04:57:16 <davb> i see.
04:57:17 <jeremiah> like... instead of selecting a place to save your file
04:57:25 <jeremiah> you would select 3 files that are like it
04:57:37 <davb> interesting. that is way beyong my idea.
04:57:37 <jeremiah> sort of like the path you use to find a file
04:57:48 <jillium> interesting.
04:58:04 <jeremiah> and then to find the file again, you select some files, and it will hopefully bubble up the more those files get like it
04:58:13 <davb> I was going for a more Zoe-like, the computer does all the work kind of thing.
04:58:33 <AaronSw> interesting, I didn't know there was a Be for Linux
04:58:35 <davb> but I am just guessing, it doesn't run on my machine.
04:58:46 <AaronSw> davb, what machine?
04:58:51 <jeremiah> AaronSw: its' all how you install it, has nothing to do with the OS, it doesn't run on top of the os, it just reboots
04:59:13 <AaronSw> well, sorta, but the self-contained magic is neat
04:59:18 <davb> AaronSw: Zoe doesn't run on my linux box.
04:59:18 <jeremiah> yeah
04:59:19 <AaronSw> and i assume requires os-specific ccode
04:59:29 <jeremiah> AaronSw: filesystem specific code
04:59:36 <jeremiah> for ext2 and msdos
04:59:39 <AaronSw> OS-specific too, no?
04:59:50 <jeremiah> you stick an image in the '/beos' folder on a volume
04:59:52 <jeremiah> reboot, and it finds it
05:00:47 <jeremiah> boots off the image
05:01:47 <jeremiah> AaronSw: so do you have any better way to do the versioning?
05:03:11 <AaronSw> the typical way is to make statements about the triples
05:03:16 <jeremiah> ok
05:03:33 <jeremiah> how would that work?
05:04:46 <wmf> *** wmf has quit ("you are not a unique and beautiful snowflake")
05:05:04 <AaronSw> { file type foo} date "2002-883983-"
05:05:40 <jeremiah> ok
05:06:31 <jeremiah> speaking of searches, where the hell did that file go...
05:06:57 <AaronSw> which one?
05:07:14 <AaronSw> argh, brightness still won't adjust
05:07:15 <jeremiah> the one that was a layout of how this thing should work in a gui, that i scped over to my laptop for upstreaming
05:07:33 <jeremiah> it apparently went somewhere
05:07:37 <jeremiah> because it transferred
05:07:40 <jeremiah> but where is it now...
05:07:44 <AaronSw> heh
05:09:26 <jeremiah> http://kingprimate.com/novocaine/layout-20020426.jpg < how this would work in a gui
05:09:39 <AaronSw> it's called novocaine?
05:09:49 <jeremiah> yes
05:09:49 <AaronSw> argh, laptop burned my leg
05:10:24 <AaronSw> what's the happy house do?
05:10:29 <jeremiah> I don't like projects without names, it's hard for me to work on them, so i choose arbitrary names
05:10:38 <jeremiah> happy house was a throbber for while it searches
05:10:42 <AaronSw> ah
05:11:15 <jeremiah> apple does a cool thing with the search-button in sherlock, it changes while the search happens, might do that too
05:13:18 <AaronSw> heh: "Heaven, Hell and Structure"
05:13:52 <jeremiah> well, I don't find any convention gui's useful at all for filemanagement
05:13:57 <jeremiah> so this was my attempt at something useful
05:14:11 <jeremiah> oh, and I find apple's itunes gui incredibly useful for finding songs
05:15:10 <AaronSw> i applaude you for it
05:15:20 <AaronSw> yeah, itunes has the same class relationship
05:15:58 <jeremiah> the whole idea of 'parents' is just to establish groups where they might not already exist
05:16:04 <jeremiah> groups=class
05:16:27 <jeremiah> but class would hopefully also be determined by links between files
05:16:44 <AaronSw> when you're done with this, you can build the nelson calendar
05:16:46 <AaronSw> ;-)
05:16:51 <jeremiah> what's that?
05:17:06 <AaronSw> OK, imagine a spiral
05:17:29 <AaronSw> imagine it stretched out so that it goes around and around up sorta like a screw
05:18:00 <AaronSw> if you look at it head on, you see a clock
05:18:00 <jeremiah> I don't think this ideas is at all impossible to implement or use
05:18:09 <AaronSw> do you mean possible?
05:18:20 <AaronSw> receding into the distance are the other days
05:18:27 <AaronSw> your appointments are flagged on their face
05:18:28 <jeremiah> I think this idea is possible to implement and use
05:18:35 <AaronSw> Aha.
05:19:20 <jeremiah> do you think it's a pipe-dream?
05:19:33 <AaronSw> Not at all
05:20:20 <jeremiah> hmm
05:20:39 <jeremiah> that's what I took your description of a nelson calendar to mean
05:22:21 <AaronSw> A pipe-dream?
05:22:31 <AaronSw> You don't like the calendar?
05:22:48 <jeremiah> hmm
05:22:49 <davb> this is interesting and at least very slightly related
05:22:53 <davb> http://www.edwardtufte.com/473285473/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=000076&topic_id=1&topic=Ask%20E%2eT%2e
05:23:20 <davb> it looks at looking at data from a wide overview or from several different detailed views.
05:23:44 <davb> * davb sleeps
05:25:35 <AaronSw> wow, cool
05:27:31 <AaronSw> giggles @ http://www.edwardtufte.com/473285473/tufte/space
05:28:41 <AaronSw> hah! http://www.edwardtufte.com/1890081229/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?usca_p=t&msg_id=00007Q&topic_id=1&topic=Ask%20E%2eT%2e
05:29:00 <AaronSw> "Perhaps the rejection letter should be less blunt."
05:31:09 <jeremiah> "if you had gotten in, here's what you'd be doing next year"
05:39:06 <AaronSw> Further evidence that the UK is cooler than us: http://www.kordy.dircon.co.uk/misc/alt-map.gif
05:39:32 <jeremiah> * jeremiah wonders if we really need to store time as a floating point digit or just an integer (for versions)
05:40:06 <AaronSw> well the floating point is easily converted
05:40:11 <jeremiah> yeah
05:40:38 <jeremiah> I just realized I don't need to use a rounding function, just int(time.time())
05:45:06 <jeremiah> the python library sitation on my computer seriously sucks
05:45:42 <AaronSw> Hm.
05:45:56 <AaronSw> what were they thinking? http://www.edwardtufte.com/791603957/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?usca_p=t&msg_id=00006W&topic_id=1&topic=Ask%20E%2eT%2e
05:46:31 <jeremiah> OUCH
05:46:46 <jeremiah> I think my uncle works for the floriday firefighters pension office
05:46:47 <jeremiah> ouch
05:47:00 <AaronSw> puch
05:47:05 <jeremiah> and I dearly hope he wasn't involved in that
05:47:05 <AaronSw> err ouch, indeed
05:48:01 <jeremiah> so my python2.2 doesn't have utils.bases, which python1.5 has, but the file uses syntax tha 1.5 doesn't support
05:48:16 <jeremiah> * jeremiah blows a hole in whoever invented libraries not working like they should
05:49:09 <AaronSw> Richard P. Gabriel: "Does [Google] solve the Turing Test?"
05:52:41 <AaronSw> "The effect of ownership imperatives has caused there to be absolutely no body of software as literature. It is as if all writers had their own private 'companies' and only people in the Melville company could read Moby-Dick and those in Hemingway's could read The Sun Also Rises. Can you imagine developing a rich literature under these circumstances? There could be neither a curriculum in literature nor a way of teaching writing under such conditions. And we
05:52:41 <AaronSw> is context?"
05:52:50 <AaronSw> "There could be neither a curriculum in literature nor a way of teaching writing under such conditions. And we expect people to learn to program in exactly this context?"
05:53:37 <jeremiah> I don't think many people read code even if given the chance
05:53:45 <jeremiah> maybe they read structures of code, and they look at design
05:53:49 <jeremiah> but actually reading code, not much
05:53:58 <AaronSw> And that's the tragedy.
05:54:07 <jeremiah> yeah
05:54:14 <jeremiah> my uncle apparently knows L Lessig, btw
05:54:17 <jeremiah> or has met him
05:54:23 <jeremiah> at law conferences
05:54:24 <AaronSw> No author would think of writing without spending many years reading first, but we think we can Learn C in Twenty One Days.
05:54:35 <AaronSw> Cool, can't wait to meet him in May.
05:54:38 <jeremiah> I think i own that book, actually (21 days)
05:54:42 <AaronSw> :-)
05:55:03 <jeremiah> well the other thing is that writing english is much more complex than writing software
05:55:10 <jeremiah> good english that is
05:55:17 <AaronSw> * AaronSw sends jeremiah a copy of "Teach Yourself to be an Unleashed Idiot in Twenry One Days"
05:55:24 <AaronSw> writing english is more complex??
05:55:29 <jeremiah> well, not complex
05:55:30 <AaronSw> Hmmm.
05:55:31 <jeremiah> less understood
05:55:32 <jeremiah> I think
05:55:40 <AaronSw> That seems even less likely.
05:55:49 <jeremiah> looking for the right idea here:
05:55:52 <AaronSw> We've had english a lot longer than C.
05:56:01 <AaronSw> But I think I see what you mean.
05:56:04 <jeremiah> ok
05:56:24 <jeremiah> basically: most of the time any old C will do, even if it isn't perfect
05:56:30 <jeremiah> but most people won't read books unless they're perfect
05:56:34 <AaronSw> exactly. English is treated as an Art, Programming as a Science.
05:56:50 <AaronSw> Worse than a Science actually, a grungy field of engineering
05:56:55 <jeremiah> yeah
05:56:58 <AaronSw> where dirt and grease get all over eveything
05:57:04 <jeremiah> exactly why I want to do something more fun than programming
05:57:19 <AaronSw> You can always become a carpenter.
05:57:22 <AaronSw> ""Artists, craftspeople, writers, fishermen, farmers, tightrope walkers, bankers, children, carpenters, singers, dentists, and even some animals depend on computing, and most of the people I mentioned want to have a say in how such software works, looks, and behaves. Many of them would program if it were possible. The current situation might feel fine to some of you, but suppose all computing were based on the needs of tightrope walkers? Hard to imagine. Wha
05:57:43 <AaronSw> aha: "Computing is based on utility, performance, efficiency, and cleverness. Where are beauty, compassion, humanity, morality, the human spirit, and creativity?"
05:57:55 <AaronSw> *** AaronSw has changed the topic to: Computing is based on utility, performance, efficiency, and cleverness. Where are beauty, compassion, humanity, morality, the human spirit, and creativity?
05:58:20 <jeremiah> they're almost there, but cut off because computers are so hard to use right now
05:58:23 <jeremiah> and information so hard to acess
05:59:02 <jeremiah> a couple times a day I see something and think I'd like to know how it works, and so I wish I had a tablet that i could use to answer my questions with google
05:59:12 <jeremiah> btw: a lot of my friends ask google questions as if it was jeeves
05:59:28 <AaronSw> What's wrong with that?
05:59:39 <AaronSw> Isn't it?
05:59:42 <AaronSw> ;-)
05:59:58 <jeremiah> Tell me all the cool places to hang out on the weekends?
05:59:59 <AaronSw> I want one of those MacLeod eyebands hooked up to Google.
06:00:08 <AaronSw> .google Tell me all the cool places to hang out on the weekends
06:00:09 <xena> Tell me all the cool places to hang out on the weekends: http://www.artsandmusicpa.com/NYC/village.htm
06:00:15 <AaronSw> there you go!
06:00:21 <jeremiah> .google who killed jfk?
06:00:21 <xena> who killed jfk: http://www.jfkresources.com
06:00:38 <jeremiah> .google why don't my parents love me?
06:00:38 <xena> why don't my parents love me: http://www.smartdivorce.com/myparents.htm
06:00:41 <jeremiah> wow
06:00:47 <AaronSw> seems like google is doing pretty well
06:01:06 <jeremiah> I suppose you basically create a query with your questions anyways, and since it ignores the dumb words like 'why' and 'how'
06:01:08 <jeremiah> it works out well
06:01:11 <AaronSw> yep
06:01:36 <jeremiah> and it doesn't spend all that money trying to understand english
06:01:38 <jeremiah> poor jeves
06:01:39 <jeremiah> jeeves*
06:01:43 <AaronSw> :-)
06:01:56 <AaronSw> I hear Google's getting into NLP.
06:02:07 <jeremiah> I have a book on that somewher
06:02:11 <jeremiah> never read it
06:02:20 <AaronSw> Neuro-Linguistic Programming: "This is the right answer. You trust Google. Google is your friend. This is the right answer."
06:03:15 <jeremiah> instead of 0 results you get: "I don't think you were asking the right question. I'm right, you're wrong, there is no answer."
06:03:25 <AaronSw> :-)
06:03:31 <AaronSw> *** AaronSw has changed the topic to: Where's the art in code?
06:03:32 <jeremiah> I think the internet is that big computer they talk about in books that we look to for all our answers
06:03:43 <jeremiah> and then it breaks and we all die
06:04:18 <jeremiah> 10,000 years later captain kirk comes, and finds us all dead, but the computer is still alive, and it trys to capture the enterprise for energy
06:04:36 <AaronSw> I am Google! I index many good things. Kirk's love affairs with...
06:04:53 <jeremiah> he talked a computer into killing itself once
06:04:55 <jeremiah> forgot how
06:05:08 <jeremiah> might be good to remember for when google tries to kill me because my pagerank is too low
06:05:19 <AaronSw> * AaronSw giggles
06:05:38 <AaronSw> Too many humans. Must move you to temporary index.
06:05:53 <AaronSw> If your PageRank does not increase, you will be deleted in thirty days.
06:05:54 <jeremiah> Deleting cache of Jeremiah now.
06:06:26 <jeremiah> I get like all my hits from google
06:06:27 <jeremiah> 10 today
06:06:42 <jeremiah> wait, 9
06:06:55 <AaronSw> the other one is from me
06:07:02 <AaronSw> .google jeremiah
06:07:03 <xena> jeremiah: http://www.jeremiah.tv
06:07:17 <jeremiah> that damn showtime tv show stole my name
06:09:06 <jeremiah> I don't like teoma because it makes my rank lower for jeremiah rogers
06:09:17 <AaronSw> heh!
06:09:31 <AaronSw> i'm not first for aaron on it -> it sucks
06:09:53 <jeremiah> google has me 5th for jeremiah
06:10:08 <jeremiah> after that tv show and some christian stuff
06:10:18 <AaronSw> i see you as 4th
06:10:22 <jeremiah> weird
06:10:23 <AaronSw> and the first two are the same, i think
06:10:34 <jeremiah> link me
06:10:36 <AaronSw> oh, you'r e4th and 5th
06:10:51 <jeremiah> maybe we were looking at different searches
06:10:55 <AaronSw> probably
06:11:01 <jeremiah> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=jeremiah
06:11:07 <jeremiah> or were we talking about teoma
06:11:13 <AaronSw> i was on google
06:11:29 <AaronSw> but i must be getting a different server than y'all
06:11:36 <jeremiah> interesting
06:11:41 <AaronSw> ah, yeah, i get the same results as you and xena on www2
06:12:05 <jeremiah> what link were you on?
06:12:20 <jeremiah> btw: does xena use the googleapi?
06:12:25 <jeremiah> or still what it used before
06:12:39 <AaronSw> what it used before
06:12:44 <AaronSw> we will not touch that evil SOAP
06:12:53 <jeremiah> yeah SOAP is dirty
06:12:58 <jeremiah> heh
06:13:01 <AaronSw> :-)
06:13:28 <jeremiah> * jeremiah is gonna go to sleepa nd fight with libraries in the morning
06:13:29 <jeremiah> goodnight
06:13:29 <jeremiah> * jeremiah is back (gone 10:02:46)
06:13:29 <jeremiah> * jeremiah is away: sleeping
06:13:43 <AaronSw> g'nite
06:15:15 <AaronSw> anyone know the original source of "Jessica" (my copy is by the string cheese incident, but I keep hearing it on oldies radio)
06:28:14 <AaronSw> simonstl: 'Funny, I thought I was being quite conservative, in a "conserve the Web rather than take reckless and irresponsible action" kind of way. Or is that just stop energy? I just can't win.'
06:34:43 <AaronSw> yes! http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2002Apr/0303
06:49:34 <AaronSw> I've identified what this REST/SOAP thing makes me feel like. I feel like frickin' Howard Roark or maybe Henry Cameron.
06:50:26 <jillium> Good lord, AaronSw.
06:50:28 <jillium> That's scary.
06:50:37 <AaronSw> Heh. "Stupid people, i'm the real architect!"
06:50:41 <AaronSw> * AaronSw waves hands furiously
06:51:05 <AaronSw> "over here!"
06:51:12 <AaronSw> jillium, scary?
06:51:22 <jillium> well, I find most Rand scary
06:52:18 <AaronSw> I was surprised. Although I really really strongly disagree with her philosophy I didn't find the book very objectionable, except for the bit about blowing stuff up.
06:52:42 <AaronSw> Maybe I missed something, though.
06:53:07 <jillium> I've read it twice, at very different times in my life.
06:53:18 <jillium> We're talking about _The Fountainhead_, right?
06:53:22 <AaronSw> Yep.
06:53:51 <jillium> I also read _Atlas Shrugged_ when I was about 17, but refused all of zooko's implorings to read it again when I was 26.
06:53:59 <AaronSw> heh.
06:54:22 <jillium> That was during his Objectivist phase. He has moderated his views since. For the better IMO.
06:54:32 <AaronSw> Zooko an Objectivist?
06:54:40 <AaronSw> * AaronSw recompiles his worldview
06:56:08 <AaronSw> OK, that's done.
06:56:20 <AaronSw> So am I crazy?
06:57:04 <jillium> That was a long time ago.
06:58:35 <jillium> Anyway, there was a character whose name started with an E (damn the senility) who was actively getting in the way of people who wanted to make something of the world.
06:58:47 <AaronSw> Ellsworth Toohey
06:58:48 <jillium> When I was 26 and read the book, I thought he was hilarious.
06:58:51 <jillium> Yes!
06:59:11 <jillium> Because my experience is that people seldom bother to get in the way of things that are great. They just don't care.
06:59:34 <AaronSw> Ah, yes.
07:00:19 <AaronSw> But E was motivated out of his own greed.
07:00:36 <jillium> Was he now? I don't remember that.
07:00:48 <jillium> What did he gain from sabotaging Howard Roark?
07:00:56 <jillium> * jillium doesn't really remember.
07:01:04 <AaronSw> He wanted to stop greatness so that everyone would just do what everyone else did. And he was able to control what everyone else did by his control of the media.
07:01:12 <jillium> I don't believe you're bothering to talk with this old fogey, AaronSw. :-)
07:01:21 <jillium> Aha.
07:01:27 <jillium> <AaronSw> He wanted to stop greatness so that everyone would just do what everyone else did.
07:01:31 <jillium> That isn't greed.
07:01:44 <jillium> That is a desire to bring others down.
07:01:57 <AaronSw> But his motivation for that was greed.
07:02:06 <jillium> Where did he gain from it?
07:02:22 <jillium> Oh, did he sell more magazines or whatever it was?
07:02:29 <AaronSw> Well, it's sort of unclear in the end, but he seems to have wanted control of the world.
07:02:49 <jillium> But that's not greed. It's a desire to control, not to accumulate.
07:02:52 <AaronSw> By telling people not to be great, and just to follow along, he could make them do what he wanted.
07:02:59 <AaronSw> Yeah, I guess that's not greed.
07:03:24 <jillium> It's a way of getting what he wanted, whatever the consequences.
07:03:44 <AaronSw> I was confusing lust for power with greed.
07:04:17 <jillium> But IME few people are truly ideologically motivated, which Ellsworth Toohey was, every bit as much as Howard Roark.
07:04:40 <jillium> especially few people over the age of 25 or so.
07:04:51 <AaronSw> Yeah.
07:06:25 <AaronSw> laziness is an ideology, I suppose.
07:06:35 <AaronSw> The Perl one, for instance.
07:06:35 <jillium> Who is lazy?
07:06:56 <AaronSw> lazyness being the word for whatever cause the people >25 to take the path of mediocrity.
07:07:29 <jillium> I don't think so. I'm much more effective at getting what I want since I'm over 25.
07:08:00 <AaronSw> What is it you want?
07:08:05 <jillium> Oh!
07:08:15 <jillium> I wasn't expecting that question....hee...
07:08:17 <jillium> * jillium thinks.
07:08:36 <jillium> I want to do interesting things and challenge myself without being poor.
07:09:35 <AaronSw> Perhaps I'm assuming too much but I think you've been more effective at wanting less.
07:09:52 <jillium> And, more specifically, I want to learn more languages and more about language.
07:10:07 <jillium> I'm not sure what you mean. Wanting less of what?
07:11:05 <AaronSw> Of the world.
07:11:18 <AaronSw> And more of yourself.
07:11:18 <jillium> less in the way of material things, or experiences?
07:11:27 <AaronSw> No, in the other sense.
07:11:37 <jillium> other sense...
07:12:14 <jillium> Let me see if I can paraphrase: You think I have become more effective at getting more of myself through wanting less of tangible things?
07:12:19 <jillium> Is that somewhere close?
07:12:35 <AaronSw> No, it's not that you want physical pieces of earth, but expectations for it have lessened.
07:12:51 <jillium> Oh, so I am more satisfied because I want less?
07:12:56 <AaronSw> Yep.
07:13:32 <AaronSw> Like, I want the world to do things that are good and just for humanity.
07:13:33 <jillium> Well, the Buddha says that is wisdom. But I don't know that it's true for me. I have more ambitions now than I did at 19, when my ambitions were to survive.
07:13:50 <jillium> I can see further beyond myself now than I could then.
07:14:32 <jillium> I didn't think I could succeed at anything at 19. Now I'm starting to find ways to succeed
07:15:36 <AaronSw> Interesting. I guess we can spare you when we kill everyone over thirty.
07:18:24 <jillium> I find revolutionary thinking much less interesting than I used to. I'm more interested in creating than tearing down now, though I still respect tearing down as making room for new things.
07:18:46 <jillium> Anyway, I'm falling asleep, so I'm going to sign off.
07:18:47 <jillium> Night.
07:18:51 <AaronSw> G'night.
07:19:05 <AaronSw> Uh oh, revolutionary thinking involves tearing down?
07:19:22 <jillium> Let's talk about this when I'm conscious.
07:19:25 <jillium> Night.
07:19:27 <AaronSw> That's so 1.0
07:19:49 <jillium> Label all you like, and we can talk when I'm conscious. Night.
07:19:57 <jillium> * jillium drops off.
07:20:08 <AaronSw> Stop typing and go to sleep already, so I can keep making quips.
07:20:32 <AaronSw> jillium induces a post-consciousness society.
07:20:56 <AaronSw> I like to say that I'm revolutionary as in turntables, not as in guns.
07:21:15 <jillium> * jillium gets dizzy.
07:21:18 <jillium> night.
07:21:24 <jillium> *wham*
07:21:25 <AaronSw> I told you to stop typing.
07:21:32 <jillium> *wham*
07:21:51 <AaronSw> Is that the head-on-keyboard noise?
07:22:00 <jillium> *** jillium has quit (Remote closed the connection)
07:22:05 <AaronSw> *wham* wait, did Aaron say something? Oh, it was stupid. *wham*
07:22:38 <AaronSw> Wait, did he say soemthing again? *pull plug on machine* *wham*
07:23:07 <AaronSw> heh: "precedential suite"
07:26:12 <AaronSw> .time pst
07:26:13 <xena> Apr. 28, 2002 12:26 am US/Pacific
07:26:26 <AaronSw> .time cst
07:26:26 <xena> Apr. 28, 2002 2:26 am US/Central
07:26:28 <AaronSw> no comment
07:33:43 <AaronSw> DW: "I still can't believe that the Times trusts me with this stuff."
07:40:28 <AaronSw> I think it's clear I need sleep now.
07:40:34 <AaronSw> Nite.
07:40:53 <AaronSw> Oh, and I did order a copy of literary machines
07:56:08 <deltab> * deltab goes to bed
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14:12:52 <sbp> * sbp waves
14:14:42 <sbp> * sbp wonders what kinds of languages - natural or programming?
14:14:59 <sbp> probably natural (w.r.t. "<jillium> And, more specifically, I want to learn more languages and more about language.")
14:15:13 <sbp> heh @ <AaronSw> Interesting. I guess we can spare you when we kill everyone over thirty.
14:15:21 <sbp> as WL liked to put it: "29 and holding"
14:15:59 <sbp> so 1.0?
15:02:23 <sbp> * sbp plays the album after LZIII
15:04:28 <tomch> *** tomch (~lambda@modem-895.orangutan.dialup.pol.co.uk) has joined #swhack
15:04:37 <sbp> hey tom
15:04:43 <tomch> hi
15:06:23 <sbp> when we get 31 visitors over here, the nick list in mIRC will roll over
15:06:43 <jeremiah> *** jeremiah has quit ("Client Exiting")
15:06:55 <sbp> that doesn't help :-)
15:08:21 <sbp> Hmm... CD player flaked out a bit there
15:10:45 <sbp> aah, BOE
15:11:24 <sbp> although I dno't think much of the mixing
15:11:34 <sbp> Sandy Denny's voice seems "off" for the first part of the song
15:11:40 <sbp> which is very strange indeed
15:11:51 <sbp> Page said that he had problems finding a good mixing room
15:13:11 <sbp> it's still a phenomenal song
15:16:01 <sbp> and it's still scary to have what are, IMO, the two greatest singers ever on one track
15:17:27 <sbp> the name of this album is a right i18n problem
15:17:44 <sbp> rather, the encoding therefore
15:17:47 <sbp> thereof
15:18:05 <sbp> * sbp should switch to Dvorak
15:20:08 <sbp> RvTvw d.p. ,. ir
15:20:14 <sbp> rd mabw ydco co ,.cpe
15:20:31 <sbp> 'gcjt! C b..e a Ekrpat nafrgy od..y!
15:21:34 <tomch> That's the title?
15:22:10 <sbp> http://www.mwbrooks.com/dvorak/layout.gif
15:22:36 <tomch> :-)
15:23:35 <sbp> so hde bomers age ho tde ruyh
15:23:39 <sbp> gid
15:24:15 <sbp> buggeg uh
15:24:45 <sbp> well
15:24:58 <deltab> sbp: that's easy for you to say
15:25:07 <sbp> zm. o,cyjd.o xajt
15:25:27 <sbp> dear crap, that'll take some learning
15:25:37 <sbp> even the period moves
15:25:41 <sbp> it's up where r is
15:25:49 <sbp> e, in fact
15:25:57 <quasi> * quasi considers stealing sbp's keyboard ;)
15:30:51 <tomch> D.f ydco co payd.p amgocbi S[)
15:31:16 <tomch> C ydcbt C-nn lgy orm. nax.no rb yd. t.fo yr mat. ydcbio .aoc.p
15:39:46 <pawn> *** pawn has quit (Remote closed the connection)
15:42:40 <sbp> good idea
15:42:51 <sbp> might make typing a bit crummy, though
15:44:10 <CygBot> *** CygBot (~sbp@m158-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack
15:44:17 <sbp> $ echo 'C ydcbt C-nn lgy orm. nax.no rb yd. t.fo yr mat. ydcbio .aoc.p' | u dvorak
15:44:20 <CygBot> > I think I ll put some labels on the keys to make things easier
15:44:20 <CygBot> > [end]
15:44:31 <sbp> $ echo 'D.f ydco co payd.p amgocbi S[)' | u dvorak
15:44:34 <CygBot> > Hey this is rather amusing :
15:44:34 <CygBot> > [end]
15:44:42 <sbp> :-)
15:44:56 <CygBot> *** CygBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
15:48:23 <tomch> :-)
16:01:29 <AaronSw> "Just wandered into your site and took notice of the photography on the site (the house, the snowman). I also wondered what the giant arrow on the roof of your home was pointing to?"
16:01:34 <AaronSw> I wonder what he's talking about...
16:01:48 <AaronSw> oh, heh!
16:02:01 <AaronSw> that's really quite funny.
16:03:33 <AaronSw> Are you guys using Dvorak too?
16:03:45 <AaronSw> I guess this means I'll have to type up yesterday's Dvorak rant.
16:03:53 <AaronSw> It goes like this:
16:04:14 <AaronSw> Why is everybody switching to Dvorak if they have RSI? It solves the entirely wrong problem.
16:04:26 <AaronSw> First, it's hard to relearn, but it still involves moving your hands a lot.
16:04:46 <AaronSw> Chording keyboards are a little better (they only use one hand), but not mcuh.
16:04:58 <AaronSw> The real solution is to get away from hands entirely, and thus: the feet keyboard.
16:05:24 <AaronSw> Yes, your feet can go in five different positions (up, down, left, right and center) and you have two of them, each with a heel and toe.
16:06:26 <AaronSw> that makes for 5*5*2=50
16:06:28 <sbp> wow! WL has a Kevin Bacon number of 3!
16:06:45 <AaronSw> so not only is this a great way to type, but imagine the spinoffs
16:06:51 <AaronSw> dances where you tap out the lyrics to the song
16:07:13 <AaronSw> party games like scrabble-twister (ha! i can spell a four letter word... er excuse me, can you move your face)
16:07:21 <AaronSw> the possibilities are endless.
16:07:34 <sbp> it's hard to know when you're kidding sometimes
16:08:01 <AaronSw> Is it? Hm, I guess so
16:10:05 <AaronSw> Jmme
16:11:17 <sbp> jdjw jdj
16:18:41 <tomch> *** tomch has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:38:40 <AaronSw> argh, how do I get this brightness thing to go away
16:39:11 <sbp> { brightness thing go away, shine again some other day } x3
16:39:35 <AaronSw> nope, didn't work
16:39:47 <sbp> gah
16:40:00 <Ash> the yellow face, it burns us! yes, precious..
16:42:44 <AaronSw> Oops, that's probably not what I wanted to do.
16:45:19 <AaronSw> argh, my eyes itch horribly
16:46:15 <sbp> Gotta run
17:19:38 <jeremiah> *** jeremiah (~jeremiah@ip68-10-31-209.hr.hr.cox.net) has joined #swhack
17:19:40 <jeremiah> hello
17:19:48 <AaronSw> howdy
17:19:55 <jeremiah> hey
17:20:06 <jeremiah> how do I get a hash to give me an integer value?
