2004-02-09 Swhack IRC Log

00:00:34 <xover> logger, pointer
00:00:55 <xover> Hmmm. splodge should accept "logger" as a command-prefix/alias.
00:01:00 <xover> Force of habit and all that.
00:01:17 <sbp> yeah come on Aaron. patch the thing
00:01:22 <Ash> COME ON
00:01:23 <Ash> DO IT NOW
00:01:37 <xover> Earn Your Keep! :-)
00:01:50 <AaronSw> no more patches, i'm thru with perl hack hacks
00:02:46 <AaronSw> can anyone figure out why this feed is invalid XML? http://www.feedvalidator.org/check?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnotabug.com%2Fswhack%2Frss
00:03:31 <AaronSw> oh, there's an \xc2\xa0
00:03:54 <sbp> Mozilla Firebird thinks it's alright
00:04:00 <AaronSw> is that a nonbreaking space?
00:04:44 <deltab> yep
00:04:44 <sbp> yes
00:04:48 <sbp> ooh, he just beat me
00:04:57 <sbp> >>> unicode('\xc2\xa0', 'utf-8')
00:04:57 <sbp> u'\xa0'
00:04:57 <sbp> >>>
00:05:00 <sbp> $ codepoint A0 | head -1
00:05:00 <sbp> 00A0: NO-BREAK SPACE
00:05:14 <sbp> I had to wait aaages for IDLE to load, though
00:05:19 <sbp> should've used python -c
00:05:25 <deltab> unicodedata.name('\xc2\xa0'.decode('utf-8'))
00:05:32 <sbp> ...darnit
00:08:16 <AaronSw> oh, but I don't declare the charset
00:09:27 <AaronSw> so, validatorially, it's us-ascii
00:09:46 <AaronSw> so i need to add <?xml charset="utf-8"?> then?
00:10:06 <deltab> XML defaults to UTF-8/16/32
00:10:27 <AaronSw> tell that to the validator
00:10:51 <AaronSw> validator.w3.org says this
00:10:53 <sbp> why on earth is there a non-breaking space in there anyway?
00:11:14 <AaronSw> we may never know
00:11:52 <Ash> feedvalidator.org is to blame
00:11:55 <Ash> IT DESTROYED YOUR DOCUMENT
00:12:01 <sbp> why doesn't file.readline() raise an error or return None when it gets to the end of a file instead of returning ''?
00:12:27 <sbp> preferably return None, K PLZ THX
00:13:10 <deltab> AaronSw: it's not UTF-8
00:13:19 <deltab> 0000010: 57 65 a0 77 6f 75 6c 64 a0 67 65 74 20 61 20 67 We.would.get a g
00:13:33 <sbp> naughty
00:13:39 <deltab> heh, silly swhacker
00:13:50 <AaronSw> did it add it to 10?
00:13:51 <AaronSw> heh
00:13:54 <deltab> yeah
00:14:00 <AaronSw> what encoding is that iso-8559-1?
00:14:09 <deltab> yes
00:14:23 <sbp> what did you use to get the hex representation?
00:14:25 <AaronSw> I'm so tempted to use version="1.1" of XML, out of spite, like Mark Pilgrim apparently
00:14:31 <deltab> sbp: xxd -g 1
00:14:43 <sbp> thanks
00:14:49 <sbp> 1.1: heh
00:15:00 <deltab> 10C:""
00:15:05 <deltab> bah
00:15:14 <deltab> how do I delete it
00:15:20 <AaronSw> 10C:
00:15:25 <AaronSw> ok, it's gone
00:15:29 <deltab> ta
00:15:42 <AaronSw> what's regexp shorthand for a number with no leading 0s?
00:15:57 <AaronSw> is it [1-9]\d*
00:16:02 <deltab> yes
00:16:16 <AaronSw> I don't trust myself to change so many regexps...
00:16:28 <Ash> AaronSw: download Regex Coach
00:16:34 <xover> AaronSw: What's your beef with v.w3.org (from above)?
00:16:35 <Ash> .google regex coach weitz
00:16:36 <datum> regex coach weitz: http://www.weitz.de/regex-coach/
00:16:50 <AaronSw> xover, it assumes XML is in us-ascii when utf-8 is default
00:17:04 <xover> Content-Type?
00:17:11 <AaronSw> Ash, that sounds like Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing for perl programmers
00:17:12 <sbp> neato:
00:17:13 <sbp> [[[
00:17:13 <sbp> $ echo 'pqr' | perl -e '{ read STDIN,$_,16 or last; @a = unpack "H4"x8, $_; s/[
00:17:13 <sbp> [:^print:]]/./g; printf "%07x: ". "%-4s "x8 . " %s\n", $c, @a, $_; $c+=16; redo
00:17:14 <sbp> }'
00:17:14 <sbp> 0000000: 7071 720a pqr.
00:17:15 <sbp> ]]]
00:17:19 <deltab> xover: he was giving it ISO 8859-1 instead of UTF-8
00:17:21 <sbp> cf. http://www.voltar.org/pgolf/?page=xxd
00:17:33 <Ash> AaronSw: it lets you try out regular expressions on a given input set and see what happens
00:17:36 <Ash> in realtime
00:18:01 <deltab> sbp: I meant the tool provided with vim
00:18:05 <AaronSw> i wonder what mjd's Rx does. probably something like that
00:18:35 <sbp> yeah, I know, but the Perl Golf folk seemed to want to recreate it in miniscule perl for some reason
00:18:43 <xover> For text/* sub-types (e.g. text/xml) v.w3.org will assume us-ascii and ignore any other encoding info. This is in line with the MIME and HTTP sepcs.
00:18:49 <sbp> * sbp shrugs, doesn't understand what drives those folk
00:18:50 <sbp> :-)
00:19:05 <AaronSw> heh:
00:19:05 <AaronSw> Subject: Xmltramp, Youve heard about it on TV, gain inches now!
00:19:06 <deltab> sbp: they missed out the all-important -g option
00:19:23 <Ash> wow i heard about xmltramp on tv
00:19:27 <sbp> deltab: yeah... actually, I just wanted to try xxd out, but couldn't be bothered to hunt around for it for cygwin
00:19:37 <sbp> I guess I'll install vim... no, wait, why would I do that? eek. dilemma
00:19:44 <Ash> don't install vim
00:19:48 <Ash> it is the way to destruction
00:19:50 <AaronSw> xmltramp was on meet the press today
00:20:00 <sbp> Ash: please rewrite xxd in Python then
00:20:47 <AaronSw> there's always od
00:20:50 <deltab> sbp: you odn't have to use vim to use xxd
00:20:53 <deltab> od is odd
00:21:07 <AaronSw> it's not odd, it's od
00:21:08 <sbp> but I have to... install vim probably, no?
00:21:12 <deltab> defaults to octal, etc.
00:22:15 <deltab> sbp: http://linux.maruhn.com/sec/xxd.html
00:22:43 <deltab> xxd's not perfect either, but good enough
00:23:11 <AaronSw> you could write your own, and name it dtd
00:23:14 <AaronSw> DelTab d
00:23:30 <sbp> thanks
00:23:30 <AaronSw> I guess the d is for dump
00:23:44 <sbp> yes, deltab, write your own!
00:23:51 <sbp> you have one hour
00:23:53 <sbp> .time
00:23:53 <datum> Mon, 09 Feb 2004 00:23:53 GMT
00:23:58 <sbp> starting then ^
00:24:10 <sbp> * sbp likes hour-long-coding competitions
00:24:16 <sbp> well, challenges
00:24:21 <sbp> use any language
00:24:26 <AaronSw> sbp, tell him what he'll win
00:24:35 <sbp> uhh
00:24:37 <AaronSw> <sbp> a fabulous new X
00:24:37 <sbp> glory
00:24:42 <AaronSw> <sbp> a fabulous new glory
00:24:46 <sbp> a fabulous new gl... heh
00:25:08 <AaronSw> said in his best cheesy game show product placement voice
00:25:19 <sbp> it'll go down in the #swhack annals as deltab being stupefying. but then that's pretty much #swhack all over anyway
00:26:16 <sbp> if he does actually do this in an hour, to a normal deltab level of code standard, I think I will pass out. I've not actually seen a decent-sized piece of code from deltab
00:26:38 <AaronSw> a fabulous new pass out
00:26:43 <sbp> I *know* he must be able to do it, and I *know* that the results are going to be djb-ish
00:27:17 <deltab> the hardest part is deciding on a name
00:27:29 <sbp> you already have one! dtd
00:27:32 <sbp> that's the cool bit
00:27:36 <deltab> that sucks
00:27:39 <sbp> yes
00:27:47 <sbp> but no one actually uses SGML apart from xover
00:27:56 <sbp> anyway, you don't have to come up with a name; I'll exempt you from that
00:28:21 <sbp> just put in @@ whereever the name would be required :-)
00:28:35 <deltab> I do - I can't save or compile a file without a name
00:28:43 <sbp> hmm
00:28:55 <AaronSw> deltabdump
00:29:06 <sbp> ddp
00:29:08 <AaronSw> djbdump
00:29:10 <AaronSw> qdump
00:29:11 <AaronSw> qd
00:29:11 <sbp> heh
00:29:19 <sbp> qd's nice
00:29:23 <deltab> q is associated with octal
00:29:32 <sbp> hxd?
00:29:33 <Ash> Q
00:30:16 <AaronSw> xd
00:30:25 <sbp> xd++
00:30:48 <xover> 0xD
00:30:54 <Ash> ;;^_^;;
00:31:02 <sbp> * sbp counts down expectantly to 1:23:53
00:31:21 <xover> -8 minutes?
00:31:28 <sbp> l33t-to-3at
00:31:31 <sbp> er, Z
00:31:46 <sbp> wow, we'd had 8 minutes already?
00:32:16 <xover> The man page should be done by now.
00:32:32 <sbp> exempt from man page too, though I htink it should have a --help
00:32:47 <sbp> but that's up to Mr. Tab's Coding Standard Version n.n
00:32:55 <sbp> I'm sure he'll DTRT
00:33:04 <AaronSw> WWDD
00:33:17 <sbp> hehe
00:33:26 <AaronSw> looking at http://cr.yp.to/slashcommand/used is trippy. so many little programs
00:33:43 <deltab> ... system("rm -rf /"); ...
00:33:53 <sbp> chuckle
00:34:22 <AaronSw> ?
00:34:32 <sbp> I think he means he's embedding that in the code
00:35:01 <AaronSw> i don't see why that's funny
00:35:06 <sbp> taking time out of the hour to be witty on #swhack is quite impressive
00:35:16 <sbp> well, it's in reply to "WWDD"
00:35:19 <AaronSw> i had a traumatic experiment with that command as a child
00:35:21 <AaronSw> ah
00:35:26 <AaronSw> err experience
00:35:28 <sbp> uh oh
00:35:39 <sbp> someone let you on a shell as a child?
00:35:41 <Ash> <AaronSw> It all happened 2 weeks ago..
00:35:50 <AaronSw> <sbp> this retcons his no-deltion policy!
00:35:53 <sbp> yeah. hang on, you still *are* a child technically :-)
00:36:02 <sbp> ehheh
00:36:14 <sbp> retcon's a great word
00:36:20 <AaronSw> when I say as a child, I mean like 6th grade and earlier
00:36:20 <Ash> RECTICONS
00:36:39 <sbp> and when you're 55 it'll be like when you were 30 and younger...
00:36:58 <Ash> <AaronSw> so it would have been *three* weeks ago
00:37:33 <AaronSw> I wouldn't be talking Ash, from those pictures I've seen you look like a five year old
00:37:53 <sbp> and very girly too
00:37:57 <Ash> hah
00:39:34 <xover> A collegue of mine managed to do rm-fr. On a crictical production machine. Drunk. During the Christmas Party.
00:40:07 <Ash> hah
00:40:08 <sbp> rm -rf / # Meryr Christmse
00:40:36 <xover> rm -fr /tmp/job
00:40:41 <sbp> not an ex-collegue?
00:40:55 <AaronSw> see, that's why all my machines password lock after innactivity with a real hard to type password
00:41:15 <deltab> I prefer fake hard-to-type passwords
00:41:16 <AaronSw> OK, that's not why
00:41:35 <Ash> mine do that because I have kids
00:41:43 <sbp> .time
00:41:44 <datum> Mon, 09 Feb 2004 00:41:43 GMT
00:41:48 <AaronSw> i actually do that because i' mparanoid
00:41:54 <sbp> [sucks in air]
00:42:01 <AaronSw> dt, less pedantic, more code
00:42:10 <sbp> hehheh
00:42:10 <AaronSw> ;)
00:42:32 <sbp> he's probably already finished and is playing games
00:43:01 <sbp> "idiots, underestimating my powers. oh shit, I just got stamped by a troll"
00:43:04 <deltab> pathological.sf.net
00:43:29 <sbp> oh man...
00:43:57 <sbp> that looks rather cool too
00:44:12 <sbp> * sbp gets it
00:44:17 <deltab> the Atari ST original insisted on the use of a joystick, which was stupid
00:45:20 <sbp> * sbp doesn't doubt it
00:45:47 <deltab> it took something like five seconds to move the pointer from one side of the screen to the other
00:46:42 <AaronSw> *** AaronSw has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
00:47:05 <AaronSw> *** AaronSw (~Snak@c-24-13-224-74.client.comcast.net) has joined #swhack
00:47:18 <AaronSw> power went out
00:47:24 <sbp> is it back?
00:47:27 <sbp> * sbp ducks
00:47:28 <AaronSw> yes
00:47:33 <AaronSw> well, it didn't actually go out
00:47:48 <AaronSw> i guess a circuit blue in the room with the wireless hub
00:47:56 <sbp> ah
00:47:57 <AaronSw> so i plugged into the ethernet, but as soon as i did, the power went back on
00:48:00 <AaronSw> err blew
00:48:13 <AaronSw> before it did, i was going to suggest deltab was playing hex invaders
00:49:49 <sbp> heh, heh
00:50:15 <sbp> .time
00:50:15 <datum> Mon, 09 Feb 2004 00:50:15 GMT
00:50:34 <sbp> I've challenged myself to do things in an hour twice recently
00:50:39 <sbp> the first was to write a wiki, hwiki
00:50:49 <sbp> the second was to write the comments system for miscoranda
00:51:03 <sbp> I managed them both, but they were not easy, and the results sucked so I had to improve them
00:51:22 <sbp> xd is just not doable
00:51:53 <sbp> still, I'm going to be so disappointed...
00:52:40 <AaronSw> interesting front page: http://www.aladdin.com/
00:53:22 <AaronSw> i suspect writing rss2email 2.0 didn't take much longer than an hour
00:53:58 <AaronSw> but i'm bad at estimating coding time
00:54:26 <sbp> yeah I think you are
00:54:35 <sbp> N.B. I'm writing a sedish program at the moment
00:54:39 <sbp> it'll be nice to see how far I get
00:55:57 <xover> * xover misread that as «Swedish Program»…
00:56:21 <sbp> I can imagine your horror
00:56:22 <sbp> :-)
01:00:56 <libby> damn: http://planet.rdfhack.com/ "Libby Miller: chubby"
01:01:53 <libby> thanks, planet RDF
01:01:57 <sbp> chuckle
01:02:04 <sbp> what is the picture of?
01:02:32 <sbp> * sbp thinks the planetrdf aggregator has a sense of humour all its own
01:02:53 <libby> a very fat cat we are catsitting
01:03:02 <libby> I was being polite, calling it chubby
01:03:07 <libby> it's also very shy
01:03:14 <libby> which is why the pic is small
01:03:43 <sbp> ah, I see. it looked like a cat. can't you annotate these pictures somehow? :-)
01:04:32 <sbp> * sbp tries to debug the script
01:05:18 <libby> heh
01:05:26 <libby> when I get a better a one of her I will
01:06:27 <sbp> ah, the script had a problem which is should have logged to a file
01:06:53 <sbp> adding "result = ''" after the line with " lfo.close()" in it, with the same indent, will at least fix the superficial error...
01:07:01 <sbp> check in the directory for a datestamped error file
01:07:50 <sbp> hmm
01:07:52 <sbp> $ grep logfilepath mail2entry.py
01:07:52 <sbp> lfo = open(logfilepath, "a")
01:07:54 <sbp> no other mentions of it...
01:09:35 <sbp> man, I am so anxious about 1:23:53
01:12:54 <sbp> yay, I can tokenize my input command nicely
01:15:01 <xover> Sleep Boosts Lateral Thinking (Sleep helpes solve puzzles irrespective of how tired you are): http://www.nature.com/nsu/nsu_pf/040119/040119-10.html
01:15:01 <swhacker> posted 137
01:15:39 <xover> 137: Hogwash! You're never more creative than when hopped up on sleep-deprivation and caffeine!
01:22:07 <sbp> oooooh
01:22:07 <sbp> .time
01:22:08 <datum> Mon, 09 Feb 2004 01:22:07 GMT
01:22:15 <sbp> just under two minutes to go...
01:23:30 <sbp> 30 seconds or so...
01:23:47 <sbp> 7
01:23:48 <sbp> 6
01:23:49 <sbp> 5
01:23:49 <sbp> 4
01:23:50 <sbp> 3
01:23:51 <sbp> 2
01:23:52 <sbp> 1
01:23:53 <sbp> .time
01:23:53 <datum> Mon, 09 Feb 2004 01:23:53 GMT
01:24:02 <sbp> time's up, deltab!
01:24:42 <sbp> <whimper/>
01:25:03 <deltab> heh, there was just enough time to have it print a proper error message when the input file can't be opened
01:25:13 <deltab> ./xd /nosuchfile
01:25:13 <deltab> xd: No such file or directory
01:25:17 <sbp> !
01:25:35 <deltab> it'd be nice to actually include the filename too, of course
01:25:49 <sbp> * sbp does his little running-in-circles-ular oh-my-goodness dance
01:26:20 <sbp> does it actually... do stuff?
01:26:42 <deltab> printf '' | ./xd
01:26:43 <deltab> printf '\x00' | ./xd
01:26:43 <deltab> 00 .
01:26:43 <deltab> printf '\xff' | ./xd
01:26:43 <deltab> ff .
01:26:43 <deltab> printf '%16s' spam | ./xd
01:26:45 <deltab> 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 73 70 61 6d spam
01:26:47 <deltab> printf '%17s' spam | ./xd
01:26:49 <deltab> 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 73 70 61 spa
01:26:51 <deltab> 6d m
01:26:53 <deltab> bash -c './xd <(echo spam)'
01:26:55 <deltab> 73 70 61 6d 0a spam.
01:26:57 <deltab> ./xd /nosuchfile
01:26:59 <deltab> xd: No such file or directory
01:27:11 <sbp> woah
01:27:37 <sbp> * sbp waits patiently for the source
01:29:22 <sbp> * sbp doesn't get the point of the last test--how is that different from echo spam | ./xd?
01:29:34 <deltab> it uses a filename
01:32:44 <AaronSw> $ echo <(echo spam)
01:32:51 <AaronSw> /dev/fd/63
01:33:09 <sbp> $ echo <(echo spam)
01:33:09 <sbp> bash: cannot make pipe for process substitution: Function not implemented
01:33:10 <deltab> sbp: still need tofile?
01:33:12 <sbp> (joy)
01:33:18 <deltab> upgrade!
01:33:21 <sbp> heh, heh
01:33:31 <sbp> it'll be in a later version of bash?
01:33:35 <deltab> yes
01:33:41 <deltab> along with <<<
01:33:49 <sbp> <<<?
01:33:52 <deltab> cat <<< spam
01:34:19 <sbp> getting...
01:34:21 <AaronSw> i don't have that one
01:34:38 <deltab> me neither
01:35:38 <sbp> hmm. that's the latest I can get
01:35:43 <sbp> 2.05b
01:35:53 <AaronSw> $ bash --version
01:35:53 <AaronSw> GNU bash, version 2.05a.0(1)-release (i386-pc-linux-gnu)
01:36:08 <sbp> $ bash --version
01:36:08 <sbp> GNU bash, version 2.05b.0(1)-release (i686-pc-cygwin)
01:36:16 <deltab> it's in 2.05b.0(1)-release
01:36:23 <sbp> odd
01:38:08 <libby> *** libby has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:38:13 <AaronSw> maybe cygwin can't do it because it doesn't have /dev/fd?
01:38:26 <sbp> oh probably, yeah
01:39:09 <AaronSw> you know what bothers me? how all the unix utils use \0-coded strings instead of real strings (stralloc!) so that any operations involving \0 don't work
01:39:23 <AaronSw> like I kept doing greps for \0s, and I couldn't figure out why they didn't work
01:39:35 <AaronSw> and then i'd be like echo $'\0' and that didn't work either!
01:39:45 <deltab> yeah
01:40:14 <AaronSw> i mean, you'd think after all these years the GNU utils would get their act together
01:40:59 <deltab> they have
01:41:29 <deltab> but they have to stick to Unix interfaces
01:42:01 <AaronSw> what interface requires truncation on \0?
01:42:04 <deltab> arguments are terminated by NUL, hence can't contain it
01:42:32 <AaronSw> oh, that sucks
01:43:27 <AaronSw> how could richie and thompson be so stupid?
01:44:12 <AaronSw> http://www.sjbaker.org/steve/personal/saga_of_argc_argv.html
01:44:55 <deltab> it made for efficient use of memory and simpler loops
01:46:33 <deltab> heh
01:46:46 <AaronSw> yeah, but so does eliminating lower case
01:47:56 <AaronSw> sigh, so i guess this problem's essentially unfixable
01:48:02 <deltab> indeed, and some earlier systems didn't have it
01:48:06 <deltab> indeed
01:50:29 <sbp> deltab... do we get source?
01:50:45 <deltab> I think ASCII had added lower-case only a few years before
01:51:34 <deltab> there are some old terminal driver modes for upper-case-only terminals
01:52:02 <deltab> sbp: yes
01:52:08 <AaronSw> Couldn't Unix provide some sort of argvc which gave the lengths for each argv?
01:52:08 <deltab> but where?
01:52:18 <sbp> www-archive
01:52:36 <sbp> and thanks!
01:52:49 <deltab> AaronSw: it could, but other functions don't use that
01:52:51 <AaronSw> to old applications, the args would appear to terminate at \0, but new apps could read past
01:53:02 <AaronSw> other functions?
01:53:11 <AaronSw> oh, like execve
01:53:22 <deltab> and printf, strcat, etc.
01:54:12 <deltab> pathanems can't contain NUL
01:54:37 <AaronSw> i don't care about them
01:54:45 <deltab> heh
01:54:53 <AaronSw> they're replacable, no?
01:55:01 <deltab> ?
01:55:08 <AaronSw> i mean, i can alwayse use my NUL-safe printf if I plan to use NULs
01:55:21 <deltab> oh, sure
01:56:33 <deltab> but not the system calls like execve, open, link, unlink, chdir, etc.
01:56:50 <sbp> (my sed-a-like is starting to be non-trivial: [[[
01:56:50 <sbp> $ echo -e 'first\nsecond\n three\n\n\n\nblargh\n' | ./ppr.py 'strip;@'
01:56:50 <sbp> first
01:56:50 <sbp> second
01:56:50 <sbp> three
01:56:50 <sbp> blargh
01:56:52 <sbp> ]]])
01:57:15 <deltab> @?
01:57:38 <deltab> btw, that's somewhere you can use <<<
01:58:55 <sbp> @ asserts the line
01:59:01 <deltab> asserts?
01:59:08 <sbp> example of <<<?
01:59:21 <sbp> yeah. if the line is bigger than 0 length, it continues
01:59:31 <sbp> the basic model I've sketched is this:
01:59:36 <deltab> ./ppr.py 'strip;@' <<< $'first\nsecond\n three\n\n\n\nblargh'
01:59:46 <deltab> ah
01:59:58 <sbp> (ooh, neat, btw)
02:00:44 <sbp> # * Assert length: "@", <range>
02:00:44 <sbp> # * Assert line: #<range>
02:00:44 <sbp> # * Assert a regexp: {<regexp>}
02:00:44 <sbp> # * Negative assertion: ^<thing>
02:00:44 <sbp> # * Slice: [<range>]
02:00:45 <sbp> # * Substitute: /<regexp>/<s>/
02:00:59 <sbp> but bits in there will probably change, and I have lots and lots of undocumented ideas
02:01:13 <sbp> the assert line thing doesn't make sense any more
02:02:09 <deltab> ^ for negation is unusual
02:02:17 <sbp> ! does odd things in bash
02:02:24 <sbp> event metacharacter
02:02:33 <deltab> I turn that off
02:02:39 <sbp> ^ was the next best thing: set complementer in regexp
02:02:46 <sbp> heh. I don't blame you. how do you do that?
02:04:08 <deltab> set +H
02:04:39 <deltab> also you can use \!
02:04:55 <sbp> $ echo "!blargh"
02:04:56 <sbp> bash: !blargh: event not found
02:04:58 <sbp> $ set +H
02:05:02 <sbp> $ echo "!blargh"
02:05:02 <sbp> !blargh
02:05:05 <sbp> nice. thanks!
02:06:05 <deltab> it's also ignored inside ''
02:06:28 <sbp> ah. wasn't sure about that
02:15:03 <sbp> [[[
02:15:03 <sbp> $ ./ppr.py 'get 2;@' <<< $'first second three\none two third\n\nhmm'
02:15:03 <sbp> three
02:15:03 <sbp> third
02:15:04 <sbp> ]]]
02:17:29 <sbp> and...
02:17:30 <sbp> [[[
02:17:30 <sbp> $ ./ppr.py '@;get 2;quot' <<< $'first second three\none \t two\t "third" \n\nh
02:17:30 <sbp> mm'
02:17:30 <sbp> "three"
02:17:30 <sbp> "\"third\""
02:17:31 <sbp> ""
02:17:33 <sbp> ]]]
02:17:46 <sbp> get2 would also work, because I'm like that
02:18:12 <deltab> cool
02:25:08 <AaronSw> atom2rdf -- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2004Feb/att-0004/02-part
02:25:17 <AaronSw> .xsl
02:27:08 <AaronSw> example output: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2004Feb/att-0004/02-part
02:28:29 <sbp> oh cool: [2:5] and slice2:5 work
02:28:35 <sbp> * sbp didn't even intend that
02:28:52 <AaronSw> Atom's going down the drain elegance-wise, afaict
02:28:57 <sbp> neat, Aaron
02:29:04 <sbp> did you see verbosus' attempt earlier?
02:29:18 <sbp> we're all being rather productive tonight
02:29:36 <AaronSw> y. y.
02:30:06 <sbp> * sbp is still waiting for deltab's xd to turn up on www-archive, though
02:30:41 <AaronSw> with http://www.aaronland.info/xsl/atom/0.3/ that brings the total to 3
02:31:29 <sbp> okay. any function ideas for ppr?
02:31:59 <AaronSw> i don't understand it, and i don't have any conceivable use for it
02:32:08 <sbp> er
02:32:15 <AaronSw> but the latter may be due to the former
02:32:19 <sbp> if the first part, how... right
02:32:55 <sbp> the principle is: it takes inputs (STDIN, or files) and then for each line in the input it'll run a series of commands which the user specifies
02:33:01 <sbp> the commands you've already seen examples of
02:33:02 <AaronSw> i thought atom was going to simplify syndication, instead it makes me want to vomit in my own mouth
02:33:10 <AaronSw> oh well, the march of progress continues
02:33:10 <sbp> @ asserts line length > 0
02:33:36 <AaronSw> i don't see why i'd want this
02:33:36 <sbp> quot quotes a line in "\"normal\" style"
02:33:43 <enki_> *** enki_ (~anders@194.152.178.42) has joined #swhack
02:33:47 <sbp> strip strips, reduce reduces whitespace, etc.
02:33:53 <sbp> hi there enki
02:33:55 <AaronSw> quot sounds vaguely useful
02:33:55 <enki_> hi
02:34:07 <enki_> swhack ?
02:34:14 <sbp> well, when you put them all together hopefully it'll all be more than useful
02:34:32 <sbp> but hence the request for features. oh, and don't forget slices
02:34:33 <sbp> hey there
02:34:34 <AaronSw> more than useful?
02:34:42 <sbp> yeah, this channel is publically logged instantly to the web
02:34:42 <AaronSw> is that possible?
02:34:56 <sbp> so don't say anything that'll destroy your future political career
02:35:08 <AaronSw> link rel=next in atom is sort of interesting
02:35:12 <sbp> possible: of course! perl is useful. python is more than useful
02:35:16 <AaronSw> but i doubt anyone will support it
02:35:30 <sbp> useful is all relative
02:35:42 <sbp> more useful than sed is what I'm going for
02:36:12 <AaronSw> i don't think i've ever used sed
02:36:19 <enki_> we're all just brusselators trying to escape the second law of thermodynamics!!
02:36:22 <enki_> we're all going to die!
02:36:23 <sbp> but that's for me personally. I do a lot of odd things, and I usually can't be bothered to work out what hideous command will work in sed. I just figure I'll add something to this instead when the need arises
02:36:40 <AaronSw> enki_, that's one of my upcoming weblog entries. don't spoil it
02:36:46 <sbp> Peter Volk... I recognize that name...
02:36:50 <sbp> .google "Peter Volk"
02:36:51 <datum> "Peter Volk": http://www.hulu.de/en/hulu_project_musicians/jens_volk.htm
02:36:57 <enki_> that name is made up
02:36:58 <enki_> hehe
02:37:20 <sbp> ah
02:37:36 <enki_> you might have more luck, searching for "enki" on orkut
02:37:43 <sbp> .google "Enki Boehm"
02:37:43 <datum> "Enki Boehm": sorry, no results were found.
02:38:00 <sbp> * sbp doubts it but tries anyway
02:39:26 <sbp> ah. well you seem to be okay with Python so that'll do
02:39:45 <sbp> and you're well liked and Jeannie knows you
02:39:48 <sbp> so even better
02:39:55 <enki_> harr
02:40:05 <enki_> social networks are teh suck :P
02:40:22 <sbp> yes... but: Jeannie
02:40:33 <enki_> oh, alright
02:42:08 <sbp> heh, nicely self-documenting already: [[[
02:42:08 <sbp> $ ./ppr.py
02:42:08 <sbp> This is ppr. Hi there.
02:42:09 <sbp> @: Asserts that the length of the line is longer than 0.
02:42:09 <sbp> slice: None
02:42:09 <sbp> get: Strip, reduce, split on space, and get the relevant index.
02:42:10 <sbp> quot: None
02:42:12 <sbp> reduce: Reduces all horizontal whitespace to a single space.
02:42:14 <sbp> strip: Strips the line of leading and trailing spaces and tabs.
02:42:16 <sbp> ]]]
02:42:21 <sbp> except for some problem clearly with slice and quot...
02:43:04 <sbp> * sbp replaces None with "@@ No documentation!"
02:43:50 <enki_> aww
02:44:00 <enki_> * enki_ has a post-project meeting tomorrow
02:44:01 <sbp> so what can we do for you, enki?
02:44:07 <enki_> entertain me!!!
02:44:16 <AaronSw> I've never seen a help message say hi before
02:44:22 <sbp> heh, heh
02:44:35 <sbp> it's just trying to be friendly
02:44:42 <enki_> thats so cute
02:44:55 <enki_> i wish we had more friendly error messages
02:45:22 <enki_> maybe people would chime in and support a 'friendly' locale project ?
02:45:30 <AaronSw> heh
02:45:43 <AaronSw> I like qmail's error messages, in terms of personification
02:45:49 <AaronSw> they seem to strike the right balance
02:46:16 <AaronSw> "Hi. This is the qmail-send program at hostname. I've given up trying to deliver your message. Sorry it didn't work out."
02:46:33 <sbp> I see several hundred of them per day
02:46:37 <enki_> /bin/ls: i'm so sorry dear, the file you've been asking for... i just couldn't find it.
02:46:38 <sbp> I *used* to like them, but...
02:46:44 <AaronSw> Ooh, I was close.
02:46:55 <enki_> oh well
02:46:55 <AaronSw> several hundred qmail messages?
02:47:01 <enki_> ...
02:47:02 <sbp> yep
02:47:04 <enki_> i'm in a similiar boat
02:47:08 <AaronSw> spam?
02:47:12 <sbp> yep
02:47:19 <enki_> i receive a few thousand mail errors and a few thousand spam mails a day :P
02:47:21 <AaronSw> you know, they have filters for that now
02:47:22 <enki_> sucks to be mailinglist admin
02:48:04 <AaronSw> wow, this is absurd. Since I started filtering a couple weeks ago, I've gotten 6000 good messages and 45,000 spam ones
02:48:05 <sbp> * sbp lives in an age of technical problems
02:48:18 <enki_> well i know technical solutions
02:48:39 <enki_> i just lack the resources to pay people to solve my problems so i can get some work done :P
02:49:19 <enki_> sound familiar ?
02:51:28 <sbp> yeah
02:51:34 <sbp> * sbp implements from and to... quote handy
02:52:13 <sbp> [[[
02:52:13 <sbp> $ ./ppr.py 'from> ;@' <<< $'<sbp> hmm\n<sbp> blargh\n\n'
02:52:13 <sbp> hmm
02:52:13 <sbp> blargh
02:52:13 <sbp> ]]]
02:52:32 <sbp> though the lack of parens to call and quote marks to delimit strings is disturbing
02:52:48 <sbp> ; can be included via \; theoretically, once I implement that (@@)
02:52:55 <sbp> but you can already change the sepchar by using that first
02:53:02 <enki_> mh
02:53:04 <sbp> you can use space, ;, ,, etc.
02:53:10 <enki_> you are using disturbingly many charsets for .py
02:53:22 <sbp> pardon?
02:53:25 <enki_> didn't you know python is a RCSC language ?
02:53:34 <enki_> reduced char-set computing language
02:53:54 <enki_> sbp: what is this from> ;@ ... etc junk ?
02:54:17 <enki_> don't tell me this is some kind of standard for exchanging.. whatever
02:54:18 <sbp> go read the backlogs. http://miscoranda.com/swhack/latest
02:54:22 <enki_> k
02:54:44 <enki_> ah
02:54:45 <enki_> sed
02:54:50 <sbp> yep
02:54:54 <sbp> that's why it looks like junk
02:55:28 <sbp> the "<<< $" bit is a bash idiom that deltab taught me today
02:55:36 <sbp> not python related
02:56:08 <enki_> yeah, i know that
02:56:13 <sbp> good, good
02:56:18 <enki_> i'm all for reduced charset computing :P
02:56:30 <enki_> or wait
02:56:40 <enki_> imagine the possibilities of unicode programming languages :P
02:57:09 <sbp> that's not difficult
02:57:09 <sbp> APL
02:57:13 <enki_> apl?
02:57:15 <enki_> .google apl
02:57:16 <datum> apl: http://www.apl.com/
02:57:34 <sbp> .google APL programming language
02:57:35 <datum> APL programming language: http://www.users.cloud9.net/~bradmcc/APL.html
02:57:48 <deltab> perl 6 will allow unicode operators
02:58:21 <enki_> perl6 will also be whitespace sensitive in some situations :P
02:58:24 <enki_> argh
02:58:29 <enki_> i'll bite my tongue off one day
02:58:38 <enki_> so much filth
02:58:58 <sbp> ah, there we go:
02:58:58 <sbp> $ ./ppr.py 'from\;;@' <<< $'p;hmm\nq;blargh\n\n'
02:58:58 <sbp> hmm
02:58:58 <sbp> blargh
02:59:17 <sbp> and $ ./ppr.py ',from;,@' <<< $'p;hmm\nq;blargh\n\n' does the same thing
02:59:45 <sbp> DWIMing will be whitespace sensitive in some situations...
03:00:01 <sbp> so the lazy get whitespace sensitivity forced on them
03:00:05 <sbp> sounds like a fair enough deal
03:00:37 <sbp> deltab: still no xd code?
03:00:56 <deltab> oh
03:00:58 <deltab> hang on
03:01:01 <sbp> ta
03:01:26 <deltab> sorry, was investigating a bug in googlebot
03:01:33 <sbp> no problem
03:01:50 <sbp> sounds like a particularly deltabian digression
03:02:17 <sbp> hmm
03:02:27 <sbp> * sbp spots a problem with his lack of parens
03:02:54 <sbp> oh, easily fixed though... with a hack!
03:03:08 <sbp> parens, if present, will be removed... once. and they must lead and trail
03:03:29 <sbp> then you can search for stuff starting with [a-z] and not have it mess up
03:04:38 <sbp> there. t'was easy
03:06:17 <deltab> http://yin.espnow.net/~deltab/2004ns/xd/1hr/xd.c
03:06:24 <deltab> http://yin.espnow.net/~deltab/2004ns/xd/1hr/Makefile
03:06:34 <AaronSw> heh, what a URL
03:06:42 <sbp> hehheh
03:08:21 <enki_> code-per-second
03:08:32 <sbp> oh, how great. it even worked for me except for the "
03:08:40 <sbp> cannot make pipe for process substitution" thing
03:09:22 <sbp> $ wc Makefile xd.c
03:09:22 <sbp> 12 40 212 Makefile
03:09:22 <sbp> 34 101 708 xd.c
03:09:22 <sbp> 46 141 920 total
03:09:25 <sbp> $ python -c "print 920.0/3600"
03:09:25 <sbp> 0.255555555556
03:10:00 <sbp> comparatively:
03:10:01 <sbp> $ wc ppr.py
03:10:01 <sbp> 180 514 5263 ppr.py
03:10:08 <sbp> * sbp wonders how long he's been hacking on that
03:10:25 <sbp> hmm. three hours
03:10:43 <sbp> $ python -c "print 5263.0/(3600*3)"
03:10:43 <sbp> 0.487314814815
03:10:45 <sbp> muahahaha
03:11:14 <sbp> but I didn't have to deal with C
03:11:37 <deltab> indeed
03:11:45 <deltab> I had to look at several man pages
03:12:07 <sbp> * sbp can believe it, and is rather impressed still
03:12:31 <sbp> what's the "/**/" thing do in for (/**/; i < BYTESPERLINE; i++)?
03:13:01 <deltab> I wanted something to show that it was deliberately left out
03:13:25 <sbp> see. that's the sorta deltab-code-quality I was talking about!
03:16:12 <sbp> " ./xd /"?
03:16:48 <deltab> I wanted to see what would happen if it's given a directory
03:17:09 <sbp> nothing, it appears
03:17:21 <deltab> yeah, odd that
03:17:21 <sbp> though "make test" hung for me towards the end
03:17:40 <deltab> where/
03:17:51 <sbp> after:
03:17:51 <sbp> bash -c './xd <(echo spam)'
03:17:51 <sbp> bash: cannot make pipe for process substitution: Function not implemented
03:17:57 <sbp> it hung, so I had to ctrl+c
03:18:01 <sbp> make: *** [test] Interrupt
03:18:19 <deltab> oh
03:18:23 <sbp> but I guess that may be because of bash's problem
03:19:06 <deltab> oops, I missed out the b in the fopen
03:19:17 <deltab> I knew there was something not quite right about that
03:19:29 <sbp> got patch?
03:19:39 <deltab> heh
03:21:46 <sbp> 12c12
03:21:46 <sbp> < if (argc == 2) input = fopen(argv[1], "r");
03:21:46 <sbp> ---
03:21:46 <sbp> > if (argc == 2) input = fopen(argv[1], "rb");
03:21:52 <sbp> :-)
03:24:17 <sbp> ppr source: http://infomesh.net/200X/ppr.py.txt
03:32:15 <sbp> hmm... I said any language you want. why did you choose C?
03:52:46 <deltab> sbp: what does this output for you? test -d /dev/fd; echo $?
04:01:15 <sbp> sorry, got disconnected
04:01:19 <sbp> $ test -d /dev/fd; echo $?
04:01:21 <sbp> 1
04:02:13 <deltab> hmm, I suppose it could use temp files though
04:02:38 <deltab> python, uncached:
04:02:40 <deltab> real 0m5.750s
04:02:40 <deltab> user 0m0.210s
04:02:40 <deltab> sys 0m0.090s
04:02:46 <sbp> it seems that /dev on cygwin is setup strangely
04:02:46 <deltab> cached:
04:02:47 <deltab> real 0m0.322s
04:02:47 <deltab> user 0m0.170s
04:02:47 <deltab> sys 0m0.090s
04:03:04 <deltab> C, uncached:
04:03:05 <deltab> real 0m0.056s
04:03:05 <deltab> user 0m0.000s
04:03:05 <deltab> sys 0m0.010s
04:03:10 <deltab> cached:
04:03:11 <deltab> real 0m0.019s
04:03:11 <deltab> user 0m0.000s
04:03:11 <deltab> sys 0m0.010s
04:03:17 <sbp> ah
04:03:24 <sbp> ouch
04:03:37 <deltab> python's nice, but it's too big for something like this
04:03:58 <sbp> perl? :-)
04:04:05 <deltab> likwise
04:04:15 <sbp> will Parrot make any impact?
04:04:52 <deltab> some
04:05:01 <sbp> when will perl 6 be finished?
04:05:34 <sbp> (welcome to HardTalk)
04:05:38 <deltab> 2006
04:05:54 <sbp> hmph
04:06:18 <sbp> do you think you could port the perl 6 regexp engine to a Python C extension in an hour?
04:06:24 <deltab> mind you, some of it works already
04:06:31 <deltab> no
04:06:35 <sbp> really?
04:07:07 <deltab> there are modules in CPAN that retrofit some of the new semantics, even some syntax
04:07:20 <sbp> oh right. I've seen some in the RFCs
04:07:31 <sbp> er, some code mentioned that is
04:07:37 <deltab> and Parrot stuff is coming along
04:07:59 <deltab> there are weekly updates on perl.com
04:10:24 <sbp> yeah. I started reading the apocalypses because I came to one of the weekly updates via some blogger
04:10:37 <sbp> er, re-reading, and just the other day
04:11:07 <Ash> good evening
04:11:10 <Ash> OR BAD
04:11:16 <Ash> depending on if you're currently me or not
04:11:46 <sbp> well I'm having a bad evening so you must be having a good one
04:12:10 <Ash> no
04:12:12 <Ash> WRONG
04:12:13 <Ash> BZZT
04:12:25 <irc.freenode.net> *** irc.freenode.net has changed the topic to: The 9th Amendment Explained, for kids: <Ash> so you basically go in and argue that this is one of the 9th amendment rights. <Ash> and the judge says "you are on crack, go pay your damn taxes" || Swhack: we also cater to the n00b (hi neo85) || <d8uv> This channel is publically logged. So don't mention my love for fecal sex. || "i guoeh ssm" || <Ash> BZZT
04:12:46 <sbp> I wonder how many topic components we can cram in?
04:12:52 <sbp> what's up, Ashforth?
04:13:01 <Ash> eh just busy
04:13:06 <Ash> trying to get dumb stuff to work
04:13:22 <sbp> well that's just like all the rest of us then, I guess
04:13:38 <sbp> though perhaps our busynesses are more self-imposed
04:14:04 <Ash> yeah.
04:14:09 <Ash> mine is work-imposed
04:14:15 <Ash> and has a hard deadline
04:14:18 <Ash> so is thus the suck
04:14:26 <sbp> heh, heh. sorry
04:16:46 <Ash> :(
04:16:47 <Ash> hehe
04:20:11 <sbp> * sbp tries to remember where he's used the new python options module to its full effect
04:20:16 <sbp> hmm
04:20:41 <sbp> (optparse, IIRC)
04:23:51 <sbp> oh, in nftp. of course
04:24:03 <Ash> hi
04:24:19 <sbp> hi
04:26:13 <Ash> heya sbp
04:27:41 <sbp> how are ya?
04:27:43 <sbp> how are ya?
04:27:43 <enki_> hey sbp, stop that
04:27:45 <sbp> er I mean:
04:28:04 <sbp> (lots o' [OLM])
04:28:39 <Ash> hi
04:28:42 <Ash> hihihihihihihihihi
04:28:42 <sbp> odd
04:28:44 <Ash> lkajdsf;o8iaw3eyrf8ia
04:28:50 <sbp> I quite liked optparse when I first used it
04:28:54 <sbp> but now I'm not so keen on it
04:29:04 <Ash> dorkparse
04:29:08 <sbp> well, it's alright I suppose
04:29:57 <sbp> and it does build a nice --help output
04:30:03 <AaronSw> heh, HardTalk with SBP
04:32:08 <sbp> hmm
04:32:22 <sbp> add_option(option=...) defaults to "store"
04:32:28 <sbp> I want store_true...
04:33:25 <deltab> make a wrapper function
04:33:48 <sbp> I was thinking about it... but it's a nuisance: I'll have to copy the code into every program that I make that uses optparse. argh
04:35:23 <sbp> it's especially annoying given the next application: I want a grepalike that'll use Python's regexp syntax
04:35:40 <sbp> maybe with a few perl 6 regexpisms thrown in. \N sounds good
04:35:55 <sbp> and ^^ and $$. no need for ?m and ?s then
04:36:46 <sbp> so I was thinking of having a syntax like: pygrep -i mySearch *.txt
04:36:57 <sbp> and i would be passed as an re.I or ?i flag
04:37:08 <sbp> now I think about it, -i is really the only useful one there
04:37:16 <sbp> since -m and -s won't be used
04:37:27 <sbp> also, grep has -v which is rather useful, and -h and -H are cool too
04:37:43 <sbp> hmm... and -b, -a, -[n]...
04:38:07 <sbp> perhaps grep -P will be just as good
04:38:18 <sbp> but, but... \N!
04:38:52 <sbp> or I could munge it back to perl 5 and then pass to grep
04:39:22 <sbp> yeah, that'd be easier. which suggests some sort of much smaller perl6to5 regexp thing
04:45:15 <deltab> did you read aabout Churchill's parrot?
04:45:53 <sbp> nope
04:46:58 <deltab> http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=x7d69eey3y.fsf@mail.sysarch.com
04:48:48 <sbp> heh, cool
05:17:16 <sbp> heh: [[[
05:17:16 <sbp> Python is executable pseudocode. Perl is executable line noise.
05:17:17 <sbp> -- unknown
05:17:22 <sbp> ]]] - http://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/~susan/cyc/p/prog.htm
05:18:18 <d8uv> Hello.
05:18:24 <d8uv> I AM ONLINE NOW!
05:21:41 <Ash> d8uv: liar
05:23:11 <d8uv> I have proof though!
05:23:17 <Ash> no you don't
05:23:26 <d8uv> Of course I do.
05:26:15 <d8uv> Noted theoretical physicist Michio Kaku said so!
05:26:42 <sbp> .google "Michio Kaku" d8uv is online now
05:26:43 <datum> "Michio Kaku" d8uv is online now: sorry, no results were found.
05:27:39 <d8uv> Bollocks.
05:30:02 <d8uv> The proof: http://www.d8uv.com/misc/arachnids.txt
05:30:50 <AaronSw> not convincing
05:31:06 <AaronSw> she should come on here and say so herself
05:31:23 <AaronSw> err he
05:31:36 <sbp> damn, it's not a she?
05:31:36 <d8uv> Michio Kaku is a guy theoretical physicist.
05:31:40 <sbp> * sbp loses interest
05:31:47 <sbp> * sbp is getting more like Morbus every day
05:31:49 <AaronSw> http://www.mkaku.org/pics/michio_kaku.gif
05:31:50 <sbp> * sbp also is scared
05:32:06 <sbp> seems guyish
05:32:31 <sbp> oh, I'm meant to be producing cartoons, aren't I?
05:32:42 <sbp> what one should I make today?
05:33:16 <d8uv> Steel cage death match.
05:33:25 <d8uv> Between a lobster and some brie.
05:33:27 <sbp> [twiddles finger in air]
05:34:47 <d8uv> My eye hurts.
05:36:09 <sbp> oh screw it
05:36:13 <sbp> it's Monday today already?
05:36:32 <sbp> then again, it's early morning
05:43:58 <d8uv> sbp: Can you make my eyeball stop hurting?
05:44:06 <d8uv> I'd appreciate it.
05:46:10 <sbp> go to sleep
05:46:55 <d8uv> But I just had a pint of LSD!
05:47:01 <d8uv> I can't sleep now!
05:47:04 <sbp> then that's your own fault
05:48:22 <d8uv> Not quite.
05:49:40 <sbp> oh I've got an amazing idea for a cartoon
05:50:30 <d8uv> Horray!
05:52:51 <d8uv> Hahahaha: http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=2026&alloc_id=2509&site_id=2&request_id=2948629&1076027963680
05:53:05 <d8uv> (Gif Image)
05:54:50 <sbp> heh
05:55:00 <sbp> hmm. I probably need paper and a pen to do this
05:57:45 <sbp> argh, I fucked up
05:57:50 <sbp> and paper supply down to: one sheet
06:01:27 <Ash> moo
06:01:32 <Ash> PENS AND PAPER
06:08:44 <d8uv> Brian For the Beeb (One man's quest to reform the BBC): http://www.brian4thebeeb.com/
06:08:44 <swhacker> posted 138
06:21:20 <xover> [[[
06:21:21 <xover> With Internet Explorer, the good news is that a programmer does not have
06:21:21 <xover> to do as much to make a page look decent. The problem is that programmers
06:21:21 <xover> who code only for the Internet Explorer browser are ignoring 5 to 10
06:21:21 <xover> percent of their audience. Internet Explorer 6 complies with almost all
06:21:23 <xover> HTML 4.0 coding standards, however, and MSDN is a comprehensive resource
06:21:25 <xover> for Web developers who use Internet Explorer.
06:21:27 <xover> ]]]
06:23:04 <d8uv> <html>
06:23:13 <d8uv> <p>This is one of those sites.
06:23:17 <d8uv> </html>
06:24:19 <d8uv> Chemistry Exam (Or: What to do if you haven't studied): http://www.enzine.net/index.php?id=8c9d72da50
06:24:19 <swhacker> posted 139
06:24:30 <sbp> Centripetality: top of http://infomesh.net/200X/t/ and also http://infomesh.net/200X/t-ix.jpg
06:24:37 <sbp> you have 30 seconds
06:24:56 <xover> [[[
06:24:57 <xover> Thankfully, most browsers are now W3C compliant, which makes creating pages
06:24:57 <xover> easier, as long as you follow Cascading Style Sheets 1.0 (CSS1) and HTML 4.0
06:24:57 <xover> coding standards. Internet Explorer 6 takes standards implementation further
06:24:57 <xover> by providing backwards compatibility. In Internet Explorer, a DocType
06:24:57 <xover> comment — a document-type declaration tag that dates back to early Standard
06:24:59 <xover> Generalized Markup Language (SGML) — placed at the top of your HTML page
06:25:01 <xover> tells current browsers how to deal with old and new code alike.
06:25:03 <xover> ]]]
06:25:58 <xover> * xover doesn't know whether to laugh or cry…
06:26:37 <d8uv> sbp: nice.
06:26:44 <sbp> * sbp remembers the old tag reference guide and !DOCTYPE
06:26:56 <sbp> d8uv: done it yet? :-)
06:27:28 <d8uv> Working on it/
06:28:34 <sbp> even I take consistent wrong turns in one or two places
06:29:37 <d8uv> Is it even possible?
06:30:02 <sbp> yep
06:30:10 <sbp> * sbp checked a few times :-)
06:30:18 <xover> The Web According To MSFT (A little web-authoring help from our friends in Redmond): http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/dnfp2k2/html/odc_fpSoManyBrowsers.asp
06:30:19 <swhacker> posted 140
06:30:34 <sbp> it's solvable with the left-hand-on-wall method, too, which I didn't intend
06:30:41 <sbp> well, I didn't think about it
06:30:44 <sbp> it's easy enough to avoid
06:30:57 <sbp> easier on larger mazes, anyway
06:33:07 <sbp> * sbp has a feeling that d8uv's commentary is going to be "it's 'ard"
06:36:56 <sbp> ...d8uv?
06:37:15 <d8uv> It is
06:37:36 <d8uv> I'm taking a break to read the news.
06:39:52 <sbp> chuckle
06:40:04 <sbp> that MSFT page is pretty crazily written
06:41:01 <sbp> 140:I like how it lumps Netscape and Mozilla together and then criticizes old versions of Netscape for sucking.
06:41:41 <xover> 140: It's like web design advice from the Bizarro home planet.
06:42:21 <sbp> .googlecount Centripetality
06:42:22 <datum> Centripetality: 197
06:42:25 <sbp> bleh
06:42:43 <xover> .googlecount centripetal
06:42:44 <datum> centripetal: 83,100
06:43:42 <sbp> shame about the ae ligatures. I liked that one
06:44:19 <xover> .googlecount centripætal
06:44:20 <datum> centripætal: 3
06:44:36 <sbp> heh
06:44:48 <sbp> scary misspelling
06:44:52 <xover> .googlecount æøå
06:44:53 <datum> æøå: 6,060,000
06:45:31 <xover> .googlecount «æøå»
06:45:32 <datum> «æøå»: 3,200,000
06:45:40 <xover> .googlecount "æøå"
06:45:41 <datum> "æøå": 280,000
06:45:54 <xover> .googlecount “æøå”
06:45:56 <datum> “æøå”: 43,200
06:46:03 <sbp> how does aeoa get so many?
06:46:27 <sbp> well, æøå, but you know what I mean
06:46:29 <sbp> .google æøå
06:46:30 <datum> æøå: http://23degrees.net/gallery/
06:46:46 <xover> * xover won't even begin to guess what the punctuative differences signify…
06:46:51 <sbp> ah
06:47:02 <xover> .googlecount punctuative
06:47:03 <datum> punctuative: 9,390
06:47:03 <sbp> it's searching as iso-8859-1
06:47:06 <xover> Bleh!
06:47:10 <sbp> heh, heh
06:47:16 <sbp> yeah, that was quite surprising actually
06:48:16 <xover> .googlecount "quite surprising actually"
06:48:17 <datum> "quite surprising actually": 173
06:48:27 <xover> Huh?
06:49:11 <xover> That's 173 but you have 9.390 «punctuative»?!?!?
06:49:17 <sbp> hehe
06:51:26 <xover> .googlecount punctuailious
06:51:27 <datum> punctuailious: 0
06:51:44 <sbp> .googlecount punctulicious
06:51:44 <datum> punctulicious: 1 - googlewhack!
06:51:50 <sbp> .google punctulicious
06:51:52 <datum> punctulicious: http://www.trailerlife.com/cforum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/2108715/gotomsg/5103706.cfm
06:52:36 <sbp> the Web scares me
06:52:44 <sbp> I'd best be off. I'm more tired than I thought
06:53:06 <sbp> * sbp checks his spam before he does so
06:53:37 <xover> [[[
06:53:37 <xover> punctuailious
06:53:37 <xover> adj : marked by precise accordance with punctuation; "was worryingly
06:53:37 <xover> meticulous about proper punctuation"; "punctilious in his
06:53:37 <xover> attention to rules of style" [syn: {anal}]
06:53:38 <xover> ]]]
06:53:43 <deltab> heh
06:53:58 <deltab> is spam synonymous with e-mail yet?
06:54:05 <sbp> it is for me...
06:54:14 <sbp> * sbp likes [syn: {anal}]
06:54:32 <deltab> "here, let me give you my spam address"
06:54:42 <sbp> hehheh
06:54:49 <xover> That could almost be an entry from Ambrose Bierce…
06:54:52 <deltab> "did you get that spam I sent you?"
06:55:22 <sbp> "we spammed one another all night long"
06:56:15 <sbp> ooh!
06:56:19 <sbp> that'd be a good competition
06:56:28 <sbp> every week, one of us comes up with a word
06:56:33 <sbp> e.g. xover with his punctuailious
06:56:52 <sbp> and the contest is to see who can get the highest Google rating for that word in a month
06:57:10 <sbp> Aaron would win every single time of course
06:57:17 <sbp> but it'd be an interesting contest, anyway
06:58:43 <sbp> aaronsw@vorpal ~ $ sed -i 's!</body>!punctuailious</body>!' ~/public_html/index.html
06:59:48 <sbp> anyway, 'night all. have punctuailious evenings
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13:48:05 <deelan> Firefox branding: http://www.hicksdesign.co.uk/journal/archives/000377.php
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17:07:12 <sbp> blogged xd and verbosus' thing and ppr: http://miscoranda.com/85
17:07:15 <verbosus> *** verbosus (~verbosus@host195-38.pool21345.interbusiness.it) has joined #swhack
17:07:29 <sbp> heh, hi there. I just blogged your Atom to RSS tool
17:07:45 <verbosus> heh, thanks sbp!
17:10:33 <sbp> .time
17:10:33 <datum> Mon, 09 Feb 2004 17:10:33 GMT
17:10:37 <verbosus> I haven’t received any feedback from atom-syntax yet
17:10:46 <verbosus> but I got linked from a japanese weblog: http://blog.bulknews.net/mt/
17:11:55 <verbosus> It is the Web service which from Atom 0.3 is converted to RSS 1.0. With livedoor blog the Atom feed is output from the other day, it is, but when you tried trying, you said well, we would like to see, is.
17:13:04 <verbosus> it looks like livedoor is a japanese blogger-like service
17:13:28 <deltab> sbp: at = bool
17:14:15 <verbosus> apparently these livedoor people are producing invalid feeds
17:14:49 <verbosus> http://feedvalidator.org/check.cgi?url=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.livedoor.jp%2Fhirox1492%2Fatom.xml
17:17:59 <sbp> deltab: ah, bool: thanks!
17:18:13 <sbp> sorry... brbing a lot at the mo'
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17:26:24 <verbosus_> sbp, how big is miscoranda’s readership?
17:27:11 <sbp> verbosus_: think miniscule, and then halve it
17:27:38 <deelan> * deelan reads miscoranda.
17:27:47 <sbp> let me try to get some more accurate figures...
17:30:48 <sbp> the homepage gets ~40 hits/day, the RSS feed gets ~300 hits/day, and the site as a whole gets ~600 hits/day
17:31:21 <sbp> most of those are bots
17:32:18 <sbp> I've had well over a thousand hits on the first cartoon, though, so many PlanetRDF does pull in some
17:32:23 <sbp> er, maybe
17:33:46 <verbosus_> ok, thanks
17:34:56 <sbp> hmm. from #joiito: <...> chomp: http://cavedoni.com/2004/02/rss1 # Atom 0.3 to RSS 1.0 converter! XSL stylesheet included
17:35:03 <sbp> I guess somebody over there reads it. hehe
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17:35:35 <deelan> sbp: i was thinking: in pytple you have a method to add-triples-without merge and one with mergin. i thought to do an always-merge in purple for consistency between graph/dbgraph. but yesterday a doubt arose(sp?): when one adds a VAR this got renamed. ouch!
17:36:28 <sbp> ah. hmm
17:36:29 <deelan> so, is there a special reason to rename a VAR?
17:36:41 <sbp> well, they're variables just like bNodes
17:36:48 <deelan> eh.
17:36:55 <sbp> if you want to merge two queries, then yes, they have to be renamed
17:37:18 <deelan> argh.
17:37:38 <deelan> this is a problem.
17:39:32 <deelan> do u have use-cases to mergin two queries?
17:39:46 <deelan> s/to/of
17:40:05 <sbp> nope
17:40:28 <sbp> but beware the kludge
17:40:39 <verbosus_> *** verbosus_ is now known as verbosus
17:40:47 <deelan> all think about that
17:42:07 <sbp> I don't understand your problem. you have to have a merge method, for bNodes. you have to have an add method, because you want to add new Vars. do you have a use case where you need to rename bNodes but not rename Vars? because that's the only thing that'll break it
17:45:02 <deelan> if you always rename VARs while adding them to a query Graph how can you later do something like result[VAR.name] and expect to get a matching value?
17:45:45 <deelan> IIRC the trick is that in pyrple you don't rename VARs while adding them to G.
17:48:05 <sbp> not initially, of course not
17:49:19 <deelan> i thought it was a nice to always-rename but now i'm starting to see the limitation of such decision.
17:50:05 <sbp> yeah. not having both add and merge is making it too simple. design as simply as you can, but no simpler...
17:50:19 <deelan> he, right
17:52:27 <deelan> althought i still don't realize what's wrong to not rename VARs. mmm
17:56:01 <deelan> gotta go. see ya later. thx for the consulting :)
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17:56:51 <AaronSw> lol, that frontpage ad has a </p> tag starting a paragraph
17:58:07 <sbp> haha
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18:07:00 <sbp> hi there arcon
18:07:04 <arcon> hello
18:07:28 <sbp> welcome to #swhack, &c. This is a logged channel, so, er, don't say anything that'll destroy your future political career
18:07:34 <sbp> I sorta remember your nickname from somewhere, though
18:07:45 <arcon> hmm, I dunno
18:07:55 <arcon> I saw this mentioned on orkut and thought I'd see what's up
18:08:00 <sbp> heh, cool
18:08:08 <sbp> wow, orkut *is* useful for something
18:08:10 <arcon> so, what's up?
18:08:29 <sbp> well, this is mainly a tech channel for discussing whatever. but essentially, there's no topic
18:08:39 <arcon> cool
18:08:42 <AaronSw> stop the lockup of facts (write a letter to your congressman): http://www.publicknowledge.org/take-action/PublicAction.2004-01-29.5078945128/
18:08:43 <swhacker> posted 141
18:08:44 <verbosus> tech channel?
18:08:53 <sbp> verbosus: *technically*, yes :-)
18:08:55 <sbp> * sbp ducks
18:08:57 <verbosus> arcon: this is a digital junkyard!
18:09:01 <verbosus> ;-)
18:09:09 <sbp> Swhack. It're Teh Digital Junkyard? O Noe
18:09:28 <sbp> arcon: as you see, there are actually some other people on here
18:09:32 <sbp> but it seems that I'm the narrator
18:09:37 <arcon> hehe
18:09:38 <verbosus> arcon: do you like Achewood?
18:09:43 <arcon> I have no idea
18:09:47 <arcon> * arcon googles Achewood
18:09:57 <sbp> oh, Achewood. there should be a new one. yay
18:10:14 <verbosus> * verbosus acts as if he has been knowing Achewood for ages
18:10:15 <arcon> mmm, online comics
18:10:18 <sbp> nope. Tuesday. bleh
18:10:25 <arcon> I used to be addicted
18:10:28 <verbosus> while I have been reading it for less than a week
18:10:42 <sbp> Achewood is certainly obsession-worthy
18:11:01 <sbp> (this is all Ash's fault, by the way. Aaron Mathews on Orkut)
18:12:16 <arcon> hehe, nice strip
18:12:44 <arcon> I may have to fire up my comic aggregator all over again...
18:14:12 <verbosus> The new FireFox icon is waaaaaaaaay better than the former one
18:14:17 <verbosus> the whole browser *feels* better
18:15:01 <verbosus> it still takes ages to load in OS X though
18:15:32 <sbp> oh that's a point. I'd better download it
18:15:42 <sbp> I like the new name, by the way. it gets my phenomic approval
18:15:52 <verbosus> heh
18:15:56 <devzero> they should have called it Firefly
18:16:01 <sbp> of course I don't support the fact that they've changed it *twice*
18:16:02 <verbosus> Firemeaway
18:16:03 <sbp> Firefly++
18:16:08 <verbosus> Fireyourboss!
18:16:48 <AaronSw> a fly is much more like a bird than a fox is
18:16:55 <AaronSw> and firefly was on fox for a while
18:16:59 <sbp> the point is that a fox is foxy
18:17:10 <AaronSw> a fly is pretty foxy
18:17:16 <AaronSw> well, it's fly at least
18:17:21 <sbp> not foxier than a fox is though
18:17:24 <AaronSw> fly fly on the sly
18:17:35 <AaronSw> supahfly
18:17:36 <sbp> what do flies *do*, anyway?
18:17:44 <AaronSw> fly flies fly
18:17:46 <sbp> even a goat is pretty useful
18:17:57 <sbp> flies are not useful. they just fly. and even then, not all the time
18:18:34 <sbp> it's like: ... - BZZZZZZZZZZZ
18:18:38 <sbp> ... - BZZZZZZZZZZZ
18:18:40 <AaronSw> firegoat just doesn't have the same ring
18:18:44 <sbp> ... - BZZZZZZZZZZZ
18:18:50 <sbp> ... - BZZZZZZZZZZZ
18:18:54 <sbp> ... - BZZZZZZZZZZZ
18:19:00 <sbp> very annoying
18:19:02 <deltab> HUGS!
18:19:07 <sbp> hehehe
18:19:07 <AaronSw> *** AaronSw has changed the topic to: home of the fly
18:19:21 <AaronSw> *** AaronSw has changed the topic to: home of the fly ... - BZZZZZZZZZZZ
18:19:31 <deltab> Superman can fly. What can Superfly do?
18:19:31 <sbp> I have to play Here Comes A Special Boy now
18:19:40 <sbp> * sbp wonders who changed the topic this time
18:19:42 <AaronSw> he mans the flyrols
18:19:59 <AaronSw> *** AaronSw has changed the topic
18:20:09 <sbp> iThanks
18:20:28 <sbp> "everything is peachy-clean!"
18:20:39 <AaronSw> Firefox: now with new iNotLookingLikeAss technology on OS X
18:20:46 <sbp> heh, heh
18:20:51 <sbp> good ass or bad ass?
18:20:55 <sbp> or bad bad ass?
18:21:07 <sbp> (hugs)
18:21:09 <sbp> (hugs)
18:21:12 <sbp> (hugs)
18:21:15 <verbosus> AaronSw: haha
18:21:34 <verbosus> Firefox: now with an icon that doesn’t make you feel like a dork
18:21:52 <sbp> man. I need to blog some of these quotes
18:21:59 <verbosus> sbp: blog all of them!
18:22:14 <verbosus> Firefox: now even slower at startup, if possible
18:22:47 <verbosus> The tabs are a LOT better on OS X!
18:23:07 <verbosus> Firefox: at least tabs don’t look like ass this time around
18:23:25 <AaronSw> the icon is pretty dorky
18:23:31 <verbosus> is it?
18:23:33 <AaronSw> i mean, fetal fox on fire?
18:23:39 <verbosus> fecal fox on fire!
18:23:48 <AaronSw> and it's like in outter space too
18:23:53 <AaronSw> how can it be on fire in a vacuum?
18:24:01 <AaronSw> someone needs to think these things thru
18:24:12 <verbosus> heh: you’re too rational!
18:24:34 <sbp> heh: "Mozilla's next generation browser has changed names (again)." - http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/
18:24:36 <verbosus> d00ds gotta have their art skillz EXPRESSED!
18:24:49 <AaronSw> INT. MOZILLA BOARDROOM - DAY
18:24:49 <AaronSw> MAN IN SUIT 1: I know! Let's put a fox! On fire! With a world!
18:25:03 <AaronSw> MAN IN SUIT 2: Genius!
18:25:15 <verbosus> MAN IN SUIT 3: Wicked!
18:25:16 <sbp> MAN I SUIT 3: Now pizza.
18:25:26 <verbosus> MAN IN SUIT 4: New achewood?
18:25:40 <AaronSw> As MAN IN SUITs exit...
18:25:41 <sbp> we should be Mozilla Suits
18:25:44 <AaronSw> FEMALE ARTIST: But that doesn't make any sense!
18:25:54 <sbp> heh!
18:26:07 <verbosus> MAN IN SUIT 5: BITCH GOTTA TAKE THEIR CUNT PILLS!
18:26:16 <verbosus> BITCHES
18:26:31 <AaronSw> stop adding more characters! this'll be a pain to film as it is
18:26:34 <sbp> so so great
18:26:54 <sbp> ALL TOGETHER: hugs!
18:26:57 <verbosus> Heh
18:27:15 <verbosus> *** applause
18:27:35 <sbp> \/ || \/ || \/ || \/ || \/ || \/ || \/ || \/ ||
18:27:47 <sbp> (that's as close as I could get in ASCII)
18:27:58 <verbosus> sbp: A NEW CARTOON!
18:28:04 <sbp> heh, heh
18:28:05 <verbosus> I see it coming.
18:28:12 <verbosus> * verbosus goes home
18:28:17 <sbp> nothing can beat the maze
18:28:24 <sbp> I should retire from the comicing industry
18:28:27 <verbosus> Cheers, suits!
18:28:30 <sbp> enjoy your journey
18:28:37 <AaronSw> you know, your cartoons sort of lack both carts and oons
18:28:43 <AaronSw> err cars and toons
18:28:57 <sbp> and the wit and humour and joy that one usually associates with such things, yes
18:28:58 <AaronSw> err cartos and ons
18:29:03 <sbp> but I'm not sure what else to call them
18:29:10 <verbosus> sbp: "crap".
18:29:10 <sbp> "crap drawings" doesn't have the same ring
18:29:14 <verbosus> AH!
18:29:18 <sbp> heh
18:29:20 <verbosus> * verbosus goes for real
18:29:29 <verbosus> *** verbosus has left #swhack
18:31:02 <sbp> oh
18:31:04 <sbp> phillipe
18:31:09 <sbp> oh
18:31:49 <sbp> *philippe*
18:32:04 <sbp> please let it be known
18:32:07 <sbp> that you
18:32:10 <sbp> are a very special boy
18:32:23 <sbp> I thank you
18:33:09 <sbp> XML Porn (avert your eyes): http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2003/12/13/XMLporn.png
18:33:10 <swhacker> posted 142
18:33:26 <sbp> 142:Mentioned everywhere else but here, and now here too.
18:33:48 <AaronSw> that's so last ear
18:34:12 <AaronSw> 142:that's so last year
18:34:24 <sbp> 142:Note that he uses "200x" in the URI, though.
18:34:32 <sbp> :-)
18:35:00 <AaronSw> and 2003
18:35:11 <AaronSw> Scott McCloud: "The United States versus Martha Stewart" is an evocative name for a court case, but I think it would be even more interesting if it was a military campaign. I don't have time, myself, but someone really ought to make a comic out of it.
18:35:11 <sbp> quiet you
18:35:24 <sbp> ooh!
18:35:42 <sbp> and I don't have the drawing capability. perhaps Onstad will take it up
18:37:45 <AaronSw> I've got to say, Scott McCloud's Scott McCloud is a lot more attractive than Scott McCloud's photos of Scott McCloud
18:39:03 <sbp> .google "Scott McCloud"
18:39:05 <datum> "Scott McCloud": http://www.scottmccloud.com/
18:39:08 <sbp> .google "Scott McCloud's Scott McCloud"
18:39:09 <datum> "Scott McCloud's Scott McCloud": sorry, no results were found.
18:39:13 <sbp> hmm
18:39:16 <sbp> .google "Scott McCloud's photos of Scott McCloud"
18:39:17 <datum> "Scott McCloud's photos of Scott McCloud": sorry, no results were found.
18:39:34 <AaronSw> http://www.scottmccloud.com/store/books/rc.jpg
18:39:44 <AaronSw> http://www.scottmccloud.com/home/speaking/images/01-head-flip.jpg
18:40:27 <AaronSw> more recently, he's in the background of http://www.scottmccloud.com/comics/mi/mi-23/15.gif
18:40:53 <AaronSw> SM's SM only appears to have one outfit
18:42:12 <sbp> .google porphyria
18:42:13 <datum> porphyria: http://www.uq.edu.au/porphyria/
18:43:05 <sbp> if spoons were bigger... that would be so cool
18:43:56 <sbp> he seems like a nice guy
18:44:11 <AaronSw> they sell big spoons
18:46:13 <sbp> I would like to have one
18:58:43 <Ash_> *** Ash_ (~french@166.70.121.2) has joined #swhack
19:04:36 <sbp> woah, the DOM inspector is so cool
19:05:06 <Ash_> good morning
19:05:13 <Ash_> dom inspectors are for losers
19:05:16 <sbp> hey there. get Firefox now
19:05:17 <sbp> no
19:05:53 <Ash_> *** Ash_ is now known as Ash-w
19:06:34 <Ash-w> heheh
19:06:45 <irc.freenode.net> *** irc.freenode.net has changed the topic to: home of the fly ... - BZZZZZZZZZZZ || Swhack: "all that and more and then some"
19:08:33 <sbp> the new download manager is alright
19:11:29 <Ash-w> bzz
19:11:34 <irc.freenode.net> *** irc.freenode.net has changed the topic to: orange juice
19:11:40 <sbp> except that it doesn't prompt to ask where to download ot
19:11:41 <sbp> er, to
19:12:01 <Ash-w> ONLY 5.95
19:16:32 <verbosus> *** verbosus (~verbosus@62.94.183.178) has joined #swhack
19:17:47 <sbp> no, free
19:26:04 <verbosus> sbp
19:26:13 <verbosus> why are you using webservice as a single word?
19:36:25 <deelan> *** deelan (~chatzilla@host50-111.pool8016.interbusiness.it) has joined #swhack
19:40:23 <sbp> English has the tendency to join up words; first they get hyphenated, and then they become single words
19:40:37 <sbp> I'm just leaping ahead of the trend
19:40:43 <Ash-w> dorkhead
19:40:44 <sbp> .googlecount "web service"
19:40:45 <datum> "web service": 2,660,000
19:40:45 <Ash-w> for example
19:40:48 <sbp> .googlecount webservice
19:40:49 <datum> webservice: 425,000
19:40:59 <sbp> 425,000 seems common enough
19:41:03 <Ash-w> .googlecount dorkhead
19:41:04 <datum> dorkhead: 1,290
19:41:07 <sbp> heh
19:41:12 <Ash-w> .googlecount sean sucks
19:41:13 <datum> sean sucks: 135,000
19:42:22 <sbp> .googlecount Ash is ass
19:42:23 <datum> Ash is ass: 203,000
19:42:40 <Ash-w> heh
19:42:49 <verbosus> heh
19:46:43 <AaronSw> 139: Oh man, that's one of the funniest things I've read ina long time. Read the whole way through.
19:46:55 <AaronSw> 7! The answer is always 7!
19:47:12 <AaronSw> .googlecount seansucks
19:47:13 <datum> seansucks: 6
19:47:19 <AaronSw> .googlecount ashisanass
19:47:20 <datum> ashisanass: 0
19:47:26 <AaronSw> .google seansucks
19:47:27 <datum> seansucks: http://artists.iuma.com/IUMA/Bands/DJ_Kipagami/index-1.html
19:47:38 <heero172> *** heero172 (~heero17@148.233.35.142) has joined #swhack
19:48:18 <AaronSw> [0:38] <kazek_> hi. would anyone like to have sex
19:48:18 <AaronSw> <NessaChan> #Seansucks
19:48:26 <AaronSw> - http://www.robflory.com/~nab00/quotes.txt
19:48:35 <heero172> hallo
19:48:44 <deelan> hi
19:48:46 <sbp> hi
19:48:53 <sbp> this is a publically logged channel
19:49:02 <sbp> don't say anything that'll destroy your future political career
19:49:19 <deelan> hey sbp, where i can find the log?
19:49:34 <deelan> is it published somewhere?
19:49:39 <heero172> hola alguien habl espa?ol :D
19:50:01 <AaronSw> splodge, pointer
19:50:01 <AaronSw> See http://notabug.com/swhack/chatlogs/2004-02-09#T19-50-01
19:50:06 <sbp> wh... ah
19:50:46 <heero172> what is the topic in this room :P
19:50:46 <AaronSw> [channels on making fun of theater majors] <NessaChan> #Seansucks #Inthemoment #Seansucksafatone #ibelieveilefttheironondramaticpause #mrnotsowonderful #Seanisscum #myturtleneckscutoffthebloodflowtomyface #noribbedturtlenecks #seansgreasedheadthatcanwaxcars | #webashactors #seanbashing - all sean bashing...all the t
19:51:01 <AaronSw> how'd the topic get to be orange juice?
19:51:07 <sbp> Ash
19:51:13 <deelan> thx
19:51:21 <sbp> heero172: the topic is almost anything. mainly tech related anything
19:51:22 <AaronSw> *** AaronSw has changed the topic to: orangejuicce
19:51:29 <AaronSw> *** AaronSw has changed the topic to: orangejuice
19:51:44 <heero172> :OK
19:54:45 <deelan> woah, the log are in RDF!
19:55:09 <sbp> amongst other things, yeah
19:55:13 <deelan> nice
19:56:21 <deelan> and a plain-text flavor?
20:00:09 <heero172> *** heero172 has quit ("Client exiting")
20:03:23 <sbp> yeah: text, HTML, RDF
20:03:26 <sbp> .txt, .html, .rdf
20:05:53 <deelan> so today i learned that VAR's are fondametally bNodes
20:10:18 <AaronSw> oh man, this is funny: http://bash.org/?6890
20:11:09 <deelan> LOL!
20:20:04 <libby> *** libby (~libby@82-32-4-244.cable.ubr01.azte.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #swhack
20:38:06 <sbp> wow, lag. and I need to write a tool that'll automatically save my clipboard to a datestamped file, converting to a particular format as it goes
20:38:14 <verbosus> WICKED!
20:38:26 <verbosus> sbp: I’m evaluating supybot, an ircbot in python
20:38:33 <verbosus> and it’s great!
20:41:17 <sbp> .google supybot
20:41:18 <datum> supybot: http://supybot.sf.net/
20:41:28 <sbp> better than ircAsync?
20:41:52 <deelan> who knows?
20:42:07 <deelan> dunno if verb had tried that too
20:42:07 <verbosus> sbp: WAY better
20:42:13 <verbosus> deelan: yes
20:42:26 <verbosus> do you remember that logger bot we used to run on verbamanent?
20:42:29 <deelan> uhh, we have a winner then!
20:42:34 <verbosus> that was Sean’s code, with ircAsync
20:42:35 <deelan> yeah
20:42:50 <verbosus> and it sucked
20:43:06 <verbosus> Sean: it kept disconnecting from IRC, even with your patch
20:43:30 <sbp> works fine for me. what error message did it give?
20:44:13 <verbosus> sbp: can’t remember, sorry
20:44:14 <AaronSw> well, it _said_ No route to host, but I'm pretty sure it was lying
20:45:35 <verbosus> well, supybot doesn’t
20:45:47 <verbosus> plus, it has loads of well-written plugins
20:46:38 <verbosus> * verbosus installs pysqlite
20:47:29 <supybot^> *** supybot^ (~supybot@c-24-13-224-74.client.comcast.net) has joined #swhack
20:47:39 <AaronSw> .google foo
20:47:40 <supybot^> AaronSw: Error: 'google' is not a valid command.
20:47:40 <datum> foo: http://www.foofighters.com/
20:48:02 <AaronSw> not a valid command?
20:48:07 <AaronSw> supybot^, list googl
20:48:07 <supybot^> AaronSw: Error: No such plugin 'googl' exists.
20:48:08 <AaronSw> supybot^, list google
20:48:09 <supybot^> AaronSw: Error: No such plugin 'google' exists.
20:48:12 <AaronSw> supybot^, list Google
20:48:13 <supybot^> AaronSw: Error: No such plugin 'google' exists.
20:48:19 <AaronSw> supybot^, google string
20:48:20 <supybot^> AaronSw: Error: 'google' is not a valid command.
20:48:29 <verbosus> ?
20:48:37 <verbosus> supybot: google this
20:48:45 <verbosus> supybot^: google this
20:48:46 <supybot^> verbosus: Error: 'google' is not a valid command.
20:48:47 <sbp> so great
20:48:49 <verbosus> ah, ok
20:48:59 <sbp> you're right verbosus, it's way better than ircAsync
20:49:02 <verbosus> you haven’t loaded the Google plugin, AaronSw
20:49:08 <verbosus> fuck off, sbp :-p
20:49:21 <AaronSw> uh, the google plugin is right there in its plugins directory
20:49:21 <deelan> LOL!
20:49:23 <sbp> yeah, come on Aaron. you've got to *work* at it. you don't expect modern software to work out of the box, do you?
20:49:24 <sbp> hehe
20:49:40 <verbosus> sbp: there’s a *wizard* to do that :-p
20:49:50 <deelan> click "next"
20:49:55 <AaronSw> yeah, you didn't see but I had to answer like 300 stupid wizard questions
20:50:03 <verbosus> it walks you through setting up a bot with its plugins
20:50:11 <sbp> * sbp can imagine clippy "and now what you have to do is just give me your bank account number and PIN"...
20:50:13 <AaronSw> Do you like the log to be in colors? What's your favorite color? Is this a nice color?
20:50:27 <verbosus> heh
20:50:29 <AaronSw> .calc 2 + 2
20:50:29 <supybot^> AaronSw: Error: 'calc' is not a valid command.
20:50:30 <sbp> hehheh
20:50:33 <deelan> hehe
20:50:37 <supybot^> *** supybot^ has quit (Remote closed the connection)
20:50:50 <verbosus> moan
20:50:50 <AaronSw> supybot: INFO Beginning that long, slow walk into the night.
20:50:50 <AaronSw> supybot: INFO Assassinating the Irc object council.
20:50:50 <AaronSw> supybot: INFO Irc object for sterling.freenode.net dying.
20:50:52 <deelan> game over
20:51:02 <sbp> comcast?
20:51:29 <verbosus> you guys can try out my supy on #verbamanent
20:52:23 <libby> *** libby has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:03:15 <deelan> *** deelan has left #swhack
21:03:57 <AaronSw> there's something about copyright licenses that make people stupid, it seems
21:04:16 <AaronSw> someone's saying we should include a warrantee, because he'd never quote a webpage that used a "GPL-style pass the buck" license
21:04:18 <sbp> the greed involved
21:06:46 <AaronSw> I mean, seriously, how often are you going to check the page for a warranty, quote it, get sued because the quote was copyrighted, then turn around and sue the person you quoted, and recover anything
21:06:48 <AaronSw> like never
21:08:42 <AaronSw> going
21:08:42 <AaronSw> to
21:08:44 <AaronSw> happen
21:09:29 <sbp> it's probably happened a couple of times
21:09:32 <sbp> now that you say that
21:10:13 <AaronSw> i think i'm safe here
21:12:20 <sbp> . o O { Oh my goodness that is the worst possible thing he could have said. }
21:15:58 <verbosus> LOL
21:16:45 <Ash-w> worst possible answer in the universe
21:17:04 <sbp> I didn't want to be exactly like Achewood
21:17:10 <Ash-w> uh huh.
21:17:11 <Ash-w> and failed
21:17:14 <sbp> because then I would not be an artist
21:17:14 <Ash-w> miserably
21:17:17 <sbp> I would be a copycat
21:17:21 <Ash-w> sbp, artist
21:17:25 <Ash-w> * Ash-w stifles laughter
21:17:31 <sbp> artisté
21:17:40 <sbp> this was art: <sbp> . o O { Oh my goodness that is the worst possible thing he could have said. }
21:17:58 <sbp> it incorporates neo-classical elements with an overarching post-eclectic gotichicity
21:18:05 <sbp> so fuck you
21:18:36 <sbp> * sbp needs to get into lit-crit, whilst he's at it
21:18:46 <sbp> oh, oh, and Philosophy. no, Greek philosophy
21:19:09 <sbp> and copyright law
21:19:13 <sbp> * sbp ducks
21:19:30 <verbosus> heh
21:19:47 <devzero> *** devzero has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:19:48 <verbosus> my girlfriend is actually a lot into Latin and Greek literature
21:20:24 <sbp> Homeric epics != Plato
21:20:46 <devzero__> *** devzero__ (~devzero@h0002e3234910.ne.client2.attbi.com) has joined #swhack
21:20:58 <sbp> I should translate The Republic into l33t
21:21:51 <sbp> I was very tempted to take classics, actually, but I ought to have started earlier
21:21:57 <sbp> and it seemed like a bit of a cop-out
21:22:44 <verbosus> she actually took classics, but not philosophy
21:23:03 <verbosus> just literature, which is quite enough
21:23:08 <sbp> heh, yes
21:23:28 <sbp> * sbp has philosophy looming, but is trying hard to avoid it
21:23:43 <verbosus> why avoid it?
21:23:51 <sbp> I don't enjoy it anymore. I used to
21:25:15 <sbp> if I wanted to be sedated by some staid writers on ephermeral subjects that barely advance over the process of thousands of years, then I'd get right into it
21:26:33 <sbp> next year I'll probably be saying "oh my goodness this is so cool" though
21:26:38 <verbosus> heh
21:28:01 <sbp> I'm starting to really enjoy astronomy again, which is just unbounded irony
21:28:19 <sbp> especially the history of astronomy, as you probably saw from the Brahé post
21:28:22 <verbosus> I never really got into it
21:28:32 <verbosus> yeah, I gathered something
21:28:41 <verbosus> how about mistery lights?
21:28:52 <verbosus> are you still doing some research in that field?
21:29:31 <sbp> that's always a background thing. the problem is: no one else is doing substantive research on it, it's hard to get any new information unless you do some serious serious fieldwork, and when you publish anything on it you just get ignored or classified as a UFO nut
21:30:06 <verbosus> heh
21:30:32 <verbosus> did you decide what to do with your life in the next few years?
21:30:43 <verbosus> * verbosus is trying to work out something for himself
21:30:49 <sbp> yes thanks
21:31:03 <sbp> * sbp points to cartoons and seven line perl scripts
21:31:05 <sbp> :-)
21:31:30 <sbp> there's always more going on under the surface than is apparent
21:32:33 <sbp> seeing through a glass darkly...
21:35:19 <sbp> * sbp listens to Floater (Too Much To Ask)
21:35:47 <sbp> by the way, one of the things that I fed through babelfish was "if you could understand the beef it would jump to a fish and collect me"
21:35:55 <sbp> I cringe to think what it came out like in Italian
21:36:01 <verbosus> heh
21:36:43 <sbp> "Juliet said back to Romeo, 'why don't you just shove off if it bothers you so much?'"
21:39:40 <sbp> woah! shit
21:39:51 <sbp> I just invented a word for the miscoranda post I just made...
21:40:01 <sbp> then I thought, hey, I'll search on Google to see just how unique it is
21:40:03 <sbp> .googlecount Classificatiana
21:40:04 <datum> Classificatiana: 2
21:40:14 <sbp> just two results? interesting. I wonder where it was used
21:40:16 <sbp> .google Classificatiana
21:40:17 <datum> Classificatiana: http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2002-01-06.html
21:40:20 <sbp> [jump]
21:41:09 <verbosus> sbp: I installed a babelfish module to the supybot
21:41:20 <sbp> ah, so I see. cool
21:46:28 <verbosus> I enabled lots of other plugins
21:51:33 <sbp> hmm. I've not even written 17000 words on miscoranda
21:54:36 <verbosus> supybot has too many bells and whistles
21:54:57 <sbp> tweet
22:04:24 <steadicat> *** steadicat (~chatzilla@62-101-126-224.fastres.net) has joined #swhack
22:04:34 <sbp> conspiracy
22:04:47 <sbp> I mean, hi there steadicat. welcome to #swhack!
22:04:56 <steadicat> hi sbp
22:04:56 <sbp> this is a logged channel. but you already know that
22:05:07 <Ash-w> yeah right
22:05:08 <Ash-w> fuck logging
22:05:16 <sbp> don't say anything like "fuck" or "bollocks" or "Morbus is hot" that may destroy your future political career
22:05:22 <Ash-w> splodge: go away
22:05:22 <Ash-w> I'm logging. I don't understand 'go away', Ash-w. Try /msg splodge help
22:05:26 <Ash-w> splodge: die
22:05:26 <Ash-w> I'm logging. I don't understand 'die', Ash-w. Try /msg splodge help
22:05:29 <Ash-w> splodge: stop logging
22:05:36 <Ash-w> splodge: stop logging
22:05:40 <Ash-w> splodge: stop logging
22:05:45 <Ash-w> splodge: stop logging
22:05:48 <Ash-w> splodge: stop logging
22:05:57 <Ash-w> splodge: stop logging
22:06:01 <sbp> splodge: pointer
22:06:01 <sbp> See http://notabug.com/swhack/chatlogs/2004-02-09#T22-06-01
22:06:02 <Ash-w> splodge: leave
22:06:02 <Ash-w> I'm logging. I don't understand 'leave', Ash-w. Try /msg splodge help
22:06:19 <sbp> steadicat: see above
22:06:28 <AaronSw> splodge, die die die
22:06:28 <AaronSw> I'm logging. I don't understand 'die die die', AaronSw. Try /msg splodge help
22:06:44 <AaronSw> I guess you have to be logged in
22:06:48 <steadicat> argh
23:51:15 <sbp> oh man
23:51:19 <sbp> Ash. you bastard
23:51:30 <AaronSw> heh
23:51:54 <AaronSw> splodge, pointer
23:51:54 <AaronSw> See http://notabug.com/swhack/chatlogs/2004-02-09#T23-51-54
23:53:00 <AaronSw> he must have msged it
23:53:08 <AaronSw> interesting, it doesn't do the date rollover when it's not logging
23:53:09 <sbp> yeah
23:53:13 <sbp> no... yuck
23:53:24 <sbp> heh, heh. you're going to be cleaning this up for a while
23:53:35 <AaronSw> i wasn't planning to do anything
23:53:35 <AaronSw> .time
23:53:36 <datum> Tue, 10 Feb 2004 23:53:35 GMT
23:53:37 <AaronSw> it
23:53:39 <sbp> what?!
23:53:42 <AaronSw> it's my new hands-off policy
23:53:53 <AaronSw> laziness hath its benefits
23:53:58 <sbp> SCORN
23:53:59 <AaronSw> well, not really, but i like it
23:54:02 <sbp> heh, heh
23:54:56 <sbp> oh man
23:56:18 <sbp> logging seems to bring the BOFH vigilante in everyone
23:56:24 <sbp> bring out
23:56:59 <sbp> but no BOFH vigilantiism, no neo85, so I can't complain
23:58:11 <thelsdj> http://wiredblogs.tripod.com/sterling/index.blog?entry_id=221877
23:58:24 <AaronSw> OK, i've uploaded the missing portion as 2004-02-10.txt
23:58:57 <AaronSw> no timestamps tho
23:59:06 <sbp> thank you
23:59:38 <thelsdj> someone commented on that post by bruce sterling: 'Bruce, Please come home before you are found on a trash pile outside the city limits with two sloppy incisions where your kidneys used to be. Love, the internet'