00:00:26 <jillzilla> *** jillzilla (~jill@216-239-45-4.google.com) has joined #swhack
00:00:28 <jillzilla> ROWR
00:00:34 <AaronSw> RWOR!
00:00:47 <jillzilla> ORRW!
00:00:52 <jillzilla> WORR!
00:01:01 <AaronSw> ORRW
00:01:07 <jillzilla> hee hee. you repeated
00:01:13 <AaronSw> aw, shoot!
00:01:16 <AaronSw> * AaronSw goes and sits in the corner
00:01:17 <jillzilla> * jillzilla points, laughs
00:01:26 <jillzilla> how're things, AaronSw?
00:01:37 <AaronSw> pretty good, how about you?
00:01:58 <jillzilla> darned good here. Working hard, enjoying life.
00:02:25 <AaronSw> glad to hear it. i can't wait until your radioactive googlebots are unleashed upon the unsuspecting world. ;-)
00:02:34 <jillzilla> hee hee hee
00:02:34 <AaronSw> or whatever you're working on
00:02:39 <jillzilla> Except I'm not working on the crawl any more.
00:02:44 <jillzilla> I no longer pet the googlebots.
00:03:00 <AaronSw> yeah, but you could be working on a replacement radioactive crawl
00:03:01 <AaronSw> no?
00:03:09 <jillzilla> Ah...I could be indeed.
00:03:22 <jillzilla> "to crawl the individual atoms"
00:03:34 <AaronSw> "Googlebotzilla vs. Bambi"
00:04:38 <jillzilla> heh
00:07:21 <xover> * xover places bets on Bambi…
00:07:33 <tav> *** tav is now known as tav|offline
00:07:45 <d8uv> Heh. I just came back from my Rhythm Practices (Read: Space Channel 5), and just read the advice.
00:08:16 <d8uv> Ruby is just like Python, except less popular and more OO oriented.
00:08:22 <d8uv> That's all that I can tell.
00:08:53 <AaronSw> AFAICT, "more OO oriented" means "you have to use OO".
00:09:15 <sbp> and less popular probably comes from the fact that it's less good
00:09:25 <d8uv> well, yeah, considering that absolutely everything is an object.
00:09:27 <sbp> e.g. doesn't have an insane amount of variable types
00:09:29 <jillzilla> Is it less good? It looks pretty good from here.
00:09:44 <jillzilla> But I haven't programmed in it.
00:10:25 <d8uv> It does look good to me too. I like some of the Perl stuffs they added to it.
00:10:43 <AaronSw> Well, let's look at the feature set:
00:10:43 <AaronSw> Python Ruby
00:10:43 <AaronSw> Is Python? X
00:10:43 <AaronSw> by Guido? X
00:10:43 <AaronSw> Snake-based? X
00:10:53 <sbp> chuckle
00:11:14 <jillzilla> * jillzilla finds AaronSw's argument undeniably compelling...
00:11:27 <d8uv> Heh
00:11:45 <AaronSw> and the unescable fact:
00:11:45 <AaronSw> .rot13 ruby
00:11:45 <datum> ehol
00:12:27 <jillzilla> Hmm.
00:12:33 <jillzilla> I didn't realize how dodgy this really was.
00:13:22 <AaronSw> .googlecount ehol sucks
00:13:22 <AaronSw> .googlecount clguba sucks
00:13:22 <datum> ehol sucks: 4
00:13:23 <datum> clguba sucks: 0
00:14:14 <sbp> "Ruby is much more complex than Python but its features, for the most part, hang together well. Ruby is well designed and full of neat ideas that might be mined for P3K. I'm not sure how many Python programmers will be attracted to it though - it hasn't won me over (yet)." - http://www.rubycentral.com/faq/rubyfaq-2.html]
00:14:14 <sbp> s/]$//
00:14:23 <d8uv> Check out: http://pleac.sourceforge.net/
00:15:08 <sbp> nice-ish
00:15:17 <sbp> the original shootout is just so cool, though
00:15:36 <AaronSw> shootout?
00:15:45 <sbp> I like the Python-Java comparison page, too. just for the comparison of the world's nicest and least nicest programming languages
00:15:55 <sbp> http://www.bagley.org/~doug/shootout/
00:16:41 <sbp> d8uv: I'd recommend even perl over ruby, by quite some margin
00:17:09 <d8uv> sbp: Dayum.
00:17:13 <xover> He's just saying that `cause he knows I idle on this channel… :-)
00:17:14 <sbp> perl is everywhere, and it's quite a freeing experience
00:17:17 <sbp> heh, heh
00:17:47 <d8uv> Yeah. I think I'll continue the python thing.
00:18:05 <sbp> rejoicefulment!
00:18:59 <sbp> oddly enough, though, I got started on the new-OS route not just by Aaron's mention of x86 assembler, but because I was thinking again about a new programming language
00:19:06 <sbp> the general thinking was:
00:19:31 <sbp> * I like many bits of python, I like some bits of perl, and bash has some cool features too
00:19:53 <xover> Carefull! That's how LWall got started on Perl!
00:20:01 <sbp> * I'm always doing a set of tasks where I'm repeating a lot of constructs that can't be handled well in any of them
00:20:05 <sbp> yeah... I know...
00:20:16 <sbp> * but if I'm going to implement a language, I must learn C!
00:20:38 <jillzilla> I liked learning C. But I was less sane then.
00:20:39 <sbp> and I always want to just do it in python and screw the enormous speed disadvantage
00:20:40 <AaronSw> Not true! Just look at Ingy.
00:20:42 <sbp> hehe
00:20:47 <sbp> .google Ingy
00:20:49 <datum> Ingy: http://search.cpan.org/~ingy/
00:20:52 <AaronSw> * The official language of Brian Ingerson
00:21:32 <sbp> well, and there's always the idea of having some sort of parrot interface
00:21:47 <xover> In-kernel Parot?
00:22:14 <jillzilla> so the language can sit on your shoulder and say, "pieces of eight!"
00:22:20 <xover> Sorry. I meant «Tarot», but your talk of «Parrot» distracted me.
00:22:28 <xover> :-)
00:22:42 <AaronSw> Ingy was the inspiration for http://search.cpan.org/~ingy/HashBang-0.10/hashbang.pm
00:23:24 <AaronSw> described in http://www.perl.org/tpc/2002/movies/lt-2/
00:23:33 <sbp> oh I remember that now
00:24:51 <AaronSw> quaff LBF; # Library for Best Programming
00:24:51 <AaronSw> personal mongers;
00:24:51 <AaronSw> mongsers << STDINGY;
00:24:51 <AaronSw> mongers.substringy(0, -1);
00:24:51 <AaronSw> mongers.each(ZEROTIME).fetch('Beer') >> 'beer://ingerson.com/';
00:25:01 <AaronSw> s/mongsers/mongers/
00:25:14 <AaronSw> s/Best/Beer/
00:25:50 <sbp> well I already started to some extent. ppr was a programming language, for some definition thereof
00:37:06 <sbp> funny. Schuyler just happened to be hanging around on #foaf
00:37:30 <sbp> <sbp> is the Conway implementation of ingy a joke, or what?
00:37:30 <sbp> <Schuyler> where to begin
00:37:30 <sbp> <Schuyler> short answer: no.
00:37:30 <sbp> <Schuyler> longer answer: count the ratio of useful to humorous packages in Damian's CPAN directory.
00:37:30 <sbp> <sbp> heh: Quantum::Superpositions
00:38:03 <deltab> 003420Z #python <mrnoir> but weirdly if I loose focus the ant goes out of scope
00:38:19 <sbp> loose? eek!
00:39:04 <sbp> deltab, if you decided to create the perfect programming language... what'd it be like?
00:39:08 <sbp> start anywhere
00:39:26 <sbp> or compare with existing ones
00:39:34 <deltab> impossible to learn, alas
00:40:04 <deltab> different taks need different languages
00:40:51 <sbp> * sbp sees an interesting link between "impossible to learn" and "selling lots of books"
00:40:55 <deltab> on occasion I've wanted features from several languages
00:41:13 <sbp> yeah. as xover said, that's how perl came about... and python and ruby, etc.
00:41:41 <sbp> I was remarking to Aaron that in a better environment, it'd be much easier to call languages from one another
00:42:04 <deltab> perl 6 shows promise
00:42:11 <sbp> it's irritating that you have so many functions/calls/subs that are pretty similar in so many languages...
00:42:15 <sbp> * sbp nods
00:43:57 <sbp> I've been mainly thinking about it because the set of things that I do are quite constrained. there are so many Python modules I never use, and it's quite easy to port most of my utilities between python and perl and even bash
00:44:19 <sbp> and there are idioms that are dorky in python that I keep thinking of nicer code for
00:45:22 <sbp> here's something I scribbled:
00:45:24 <sbp> def pipes(argv=None, read=True):
00:45:24 <sbp> if argv is None:
00:45:24 <sbp> argv = sys.argv[1:]
00:45:24 <sbp> if not argv:
00:45:24 <sbp> result = [(sys.stdin, sys.stdout)]
00:45:25 <sbp> else: result = [(open(fn), open(fn, 'w')) for fn in argv]
00:45:27 <sbp> if not read:
00:45:29 <sbp> return result
00:45:31 <sbp> else: return [(input.read(), output) for (input, output) in result]
00:45:46 <sbp> so you can do:
00:45:54 <sbp> for (IN, OUT) in pipes():
00:46:02 <sbp> callable(IN, OUT)
00:46:30 <sbp> I should be doing that all the time, but I often end up just implementing STDIN/STDOUT, or filename
00:46:51 <sbp> oh, and here was Aaron's bit of neat code:
00:46:52 <sbp> def shell(script):
00:46:52 <sbp> # from Aaron Swartz on IRC
00:46:52 <sbp> def command(text):
00:46:52 <sbp> i, o = os.popen2(script)
00:46:52 <sbp> i.write(text)
00:46:54 <sbp> return o.read()
00:46:56 <sbp> return command
00:49:52 <sbp> but there are other features I'd like that're more tangible: on demand importing of builtin functions and types, from a huge flat namespace
00:57:51 <d8uv> My favorite language is English.
00:58:08 <d8uv> I'd prefer to use that instead of Python.
01:03:13 <sbp> "do what I mean!"
01:15:06 <sbp> Python needs something like this: [[[
01:15:07 <sbp> -v[erbose] Set verbose mode
01:15:07 <sbp> (doubly verbose if full word used)
01:15:07 <sbp> { if ($_PUNCT_{"erbose"}) { $verbose = 2; }
01:15:07 <sbp> else { $verbose = 1; }
01:15:08 <sbp> }
01:15:12 <sbp> ]]] - http://search.cpan.org/~dconway/Getopt-Declare-1.11/lib/Getopt/Declare.pm
01:18:25 <thelsdj> -v should add 1 to the verbosity and -verbose should add 1 and double it so you could do '-verbose -verbose -verbose' and end up with a verbosity of 14!
01:19:02 <sbp> hehe
01:21:29 <thelsdj> man i love this track
01:21:35 <thelsdj> mouse on mars - maggots hell wiggs
01:24:15 <thelsdj> Code Complete 2nd Edition (Help review (or just read) the second edition of Code Complete: A Practical Handbook of Software Construction): http://stevemcconnell.com/cc2/cc.htm
01:24:16 <swhacker> posted 190
01:28:50 <sbp> this is what I'm aiming for:
01:28:50 <sbp> o = Opts('%prog [options] [<string name>] <string path>')
01:28:50 <sbp> o.addopt('-c --chmod <int> chmod a file on the server')
01:28:51 <sbp> o.addopt('-u --update update a file, on the server or locally')
01:28:51 <sbp> o.addopt('-g --get download a file from the server')
01:28:51 <sbp> o.addopt('-d --delete delete a file from the server')
01:28:53 <sbp> options = o.parse(argv)
01:32:55 <sbp> hmm. that's unusually beautiful. I might just have to try implementing that...
01:36:11 <thelsdj> new article on disenchanted: http://www.disenchanted.com/humor/zen-hotline.html
01:55:56 <verbosus> *** verbosus has left #swhack
01:56:19 <thelsdj> hmm now to see if i can install mono and start teaching myself c#
01:56:28 <sbp> getting somewhere:
01:56:28 <sbp> $ python opts.py
01:56:28 <sbp> Another Command Line Options Parser.
01:56:29 <sbp> ('c', 'chmod', [<type 'int'>], 'chmod a file on the server')
01:56:29 <sbp> ('u', 'update', [], 'update a file, on the server or locally')
01:56:29 <sbp> ('g', 'get', [], 'download a file from the server')
01:56:31 <sbp> ('d', 'delete', [], 'delete a file from the server')
02:01:24 <d8uv> sbp: Change it to Freshen(get), Update, Chmod, Kill(delete).
02:02:01 <sbp> hmm?
02:03:13 <sbp> mmm: {0: ([], 'print out a help message'), 1: ([<type 'int'>], 'chmod a file on the server'), 'c': 1, 3: ([], 'download a file from the server'), 4: ([], 'delete a file from the server'), 'help': 0, 'g': 3, 'get': 3, 'h': 0, 2: ([], 'update a file, on the server or locally'), 'update': 2, 'chmod': 1, 'u': 2, 'delete': 4, 'd': 4}
02:03:27 <d8uv> Nice
02:03:47 <sbp> slowly falling into place, but I don't really want to have to support optionality. oh well
02:05:18 <d8uv> ('f', 'freshen', [], 'freshen a local copy from a server, download otherwise')
02:05:18 <d8uv> ('u', 'update', [], 'update a file, on the server or locally')
02:05:18 <d8uv> ('c', 'chmod', [<type 'int'>], 'chmod a file on the server')
02:05:18 <d8uv> ('k', 'kill', [], 'delete a file from the server')
02:05:26 <sbp> hahaha
02:05:39 <thelsdj> bahahah
02:05:46 <thelsdj> omg i didn't get it at first
02:05:53 <sbp> * sbp neither... that's hillarious
02:06:01 <d8uv> Thanks.
02:09:09 <sbp> * sbp should probably split this into two dictionaries since "args, help = self.options[self.options[arg]]" is a little crappy... but it saves space
02:13:03 <thelsdj> what exactly is a vertical tab?
02:13:33 <sbp> like a line break but causes a tab's worth of vertical whitespace?
02:14:31 <thelsdj> that doesn't seem to be what it is in practice
02:14:44 <thelsdj> with echo -e it doesn't seem to do anything
02:14:45 <sbp> I was just guessing :-)
02:14:47 <thelsdj> hehe
02:15:25 <jillzilla> is vtab the same as form feed?
02:15:33 <jillzilla> meaning "hey printer, go to the end of the page"?
02:16:31 <thelsdj> no id on't believe so, 'man echo' has two different escape characters for them
02:16:38 <thelsdj> form feed is \f and vertical tab is \v
02:17:06 <thelsdj> guess i'll just have to google it
02:17:19 <jillzilla> Ah, good.
02:18:34 <thelsdj> It's a whitespace control character, whose precise meaning is, as far as
02:18:34 <thelsdj> I know, left to the implementation. In the same way that a horizontal
02:18:34 <thelsdj> tab (HT) -- what you'd generally think of us a tab -- means "advance the
02:18:34 <thelsdj> cursor some amount of space forward on the line," a vertical tab would
02:18:34 <thelsdj> mean "advance the cursor some amount of space downward on the page." I
02:18:36 <thelsdj> don't have a copy of the ASCII Standard in front of me so I can't say
02:18:39 <thelsdj> more, but it's not used a lot of these days.
02:18:49 <thelsdj> so i'd asume that people just don't implement it hehe
02:19:12 <thelsdj> it sure doesn't do anything in echo
02:20:04 <sbp> yikes. an optparser is a non-trivial task
02:21:32 <sbp> it's starting to work, though
02:21:34 <sbp> print o.parse(['-c', '755', 'name', 'path'])
02:21:39 <sbp> gives: {'': ['name', 'path'], 'c': [755], 'chmod': [755]}
02:23:35 <sbp> should be able to parse this out of a __doc__ really
02:23:41 <sbp> that'd be even cooler
02:24:20 <sbp> * sbp totally needs to optimise this, etc.
02:25:05 <sbp> * sbp should follow the XP practice of writing the tests first for a change
02:33:49 <thelsdj> hehe hello world in C takes 0.003 seconds to run and hello world in c# takes 0.185 seconds
02:33:58 <sbp> * sbp grins
02:35:26 <thelsdj> and c++ version is about 0.007 seconds
02:35:57 <thelsdj> perl is same speed as c++
02:37:04 <thelsdj> python is much worse than perl and takes 0.060 seconds
02:37:24 <sbp> heh, even python beats C#? ew
02:37:45 <thelsdj> hehe trying ruby now
02:38:16 <thelsdj> ruby also beats python at 0.015 seconds
02:39:14 <thelsdj> i should try dotGNU and see if thats any better than mono for hello world hehehe
02:39:23 <thelsdj> its so fun to do arbitrary tests like this
02:40:05 <xover> * xover prefers the one where Perl outperforms GNU grep…
02:41:13 <thelsdj> oh and just so you know, echo out performs all of them at 0.000 seconds hehe
02:41:55 <thelsdj> interestingly 'cat' takes just as long as the C version
02:41:58 <xover> How does /bin/true hold up to "exit(1)"?
02:42:23 <xover> (well, or the other way around, probably)
02:43:38 <thelsdj> adam@jane c-sharp $ cat > exit1.c
02:43:39 <thelsdj> int main () { exit(1); }
02:43:39 <thelsdj> adam@jane c-sharp $ make exit1
02:43:39 <thelsdj> gcc exit1.c -o exit1
02:43:39 <thelsdj> adam@jane c-sharp $ true ./exit1
02:43:41 <thelsdj> adam@jane c-sharp $ echo $?
02:43:43 <thelsdj> 0
02:45:11 <thelsdj> hmm thats not what i wantedd
02:45:58 <xover> true --help
02:46:10 <thelsdj> yea
02:46:22 <thelsdj> you were wondering what the difference was right?
02:46:41 <xover> Well, you were doing performance testing, non? :-)
02:46:54 <thelsdj> ooh right hmm
02:47:10 <thelsdj> exit1 takes 0.003
02:47:14 <thelsdj> and true takes 0.000
02:48:22 <xover> * xover bets /bin/true is C (as opposed to a shell script) and is prelinked or summat…
02:48:27 <thelsdj> i should see how that nasm true code holds up to /bin/true
02:50:02 <thelsdj> hmm nasm is a lil faster than c
02:50:06 <thelsdj> its 0.002
02:50:14 <thelsdj> but /bin/true still does better
02:50:26 <thelsdj> but i think the best performance is echo that can do hello world in 0.000
02:54:02 <jillzilla> why not just check /bin/true?
02:54:32 <jillzilla> jill@kata:jill$ ldd /usr/bin/true
02:54:32 <jillzilla> ldd: /usr/bin/true: not a dynamic executable
02:54:54 <jillzilla> that's my openbsd machine. But my linux machine has a dynamically linked /bin/true.
02:55:07 <xover> The Most Mysteriously Fast Little Program (/bin/true is *fast*): http://savannah.gnu.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs/coreutils/coreutils/src/true.c?rev=1.19&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup
02:55:08 <swhacker> posted 191
02:57:06 <thelsdj> it must have to do with the compiler options used to compile my version of /bin/true
02:57:18 <thelsdj> cause exit1 should be just as fast if not faster with the same compile options
02:57:26 <xover> -O3?
02:58:17 <thelsdj> /bin/true is still faster with that
02:58:31 <thelsdj> i'm on gentoo so my /bin/true must have insane optimizations hahaha
02:59:16 <xover> Hmmm. Doesn't Gentoo just set -march and -mcpu?
02:59:23 <thelsdj> damn even with using my CFLAGS /bin/true is still faster
02:59:43 <thelsdj> wtf now /bin/true is being slower
03:00:00 <xover> How are you timing this?
03:06:48 <thelsdj> just with bash's 'time' not very professional :)
03:10:02 <thelsdj> there should be some way to kick your spam blocker in the ass when it lets in 323 consecutive paris hilton movies in all of 3 minutes
03:13:53 <sbp> all objects should have a kickMeInTheAss method
03:15:48 <jillzilla> I do.
03:15:53 <jillzilla> * jillzilla calls the method
03:15:54 <jillzilla> OW!
03:16:31 <sbp> it's surely masochistic to call your own kickMeInTheAss method?
03:17:21 <sbp> if only Morbus were here to witness it
03:18:29 <thelsdj> i really should install a java compiler just so i can see if c# is slower than java hahaha
03:28:15 <jillzilla> speaking of masochistic
03:28:58 <sbp> heh
03:34:52 <Ash> kaboom
03:44:05 <jillzilla> ROWR
03:44:50 <jillzilla> * jillzilla blasts gigabytes of log files
03:44:56 <jillzilla> BLAM BLAM BLAM
03:45:01 <sbp> hehheh
03:45:08 <jillzilla> "Oh, No!"
03:45:11 <jillzilla> just kidding
03:45:21 <sbp> phew
03:45:27 <jillzilla> yeah.
03:45:42 <sbp> I wouldn't want Google losing all those Porn searches that Morbus has done over the years
03:45:53 <jillzilla> some of those melted the hard drives.
03:45:57 <sbp> hehehe
03:46:06 <jillzilla> it was not pretty
03:46:21 <sbp> I'll bet. that's a supreme scalability test
03:46:31 <jillzilla> more a disgustability test
03:46:37 <sbp> :-)
03:46:42 <jillzilla> the hard drives were just appalled
03:47:08 <jillzilla> I overheard it, "Some Kevin guy in New Hampshire!"
03:47:12 <jillzilla> I thought, "oh, no"
03:48:40 <sbp> the hard drives speak?
03:48:42 <sbp> (sorry, got cut off as usual)
03:48:55 <jillzilla> these are Google hard drives, you see
03:49:11 <sbp> that's almost rocks too much
03:49:11 <jillzilla> But actually it was people who were trying to comfort the hard drives who spoke
03:49:17 <sbp> do you have to feed them or anything?
03:49:25 <sbp> oh, I see. you have counsellors for the hard drives
03:49:44 <jillzilla> yeah. The pigeonrank thing was considered a joke, but the pigeons are there to take food to the hard drives and to encourage them
03:49:57 <jillzilla> it's really very touching
03:50:04 <sbp> you heard it here first, folks!
03:50:17 <jillzilla> "oh, no, is this being logged??"
03:50:28 <sbp> shame that the carrier pigeon is extinct. do you have problems using regular pigeons?
03:50:29 <sbp> hehe
03:51:01 <jillzilla> the pigeons are happy to get out of the rain
03:51:23 <sbp> I'll bet they get free M&Ms too
03:51:29 <jillzilla> indeed
03:51:47 <jillzilla> but only after work. they get all wired on the caffeine otherwise
03:52:30 <sbp> there's caffiene in M&Ms?! man, it's in everything these days
03:52:37 <jillzilla> it's in chocolate!
03:52:47 <sbp> eek
03:53:00 <sbp> I was surprised that Mountain Dew had so much. it made me sleepy
03:53:04 <jillzilla> sheesh, I've pulled all-nighters on M&Ms before.
03:53:08 <sbp> hehe
03:55:07 <jillzilla> wired pigeons are pretty hard to deal with
03:55:16 <jillzilla> and they upset the hard drives
03:56:21 <sbp> so they're not the councellors? you have both a counselling team and a highly trained set of acrobatic non-carrier trained M&M junkie pigeons on 24/7 alert to tend to your hard drives?
03:56:39 <jillzilla> um, I've probably said too much
03:56:45 <sbp> * sbp reels
03:56:47 <jillzilla> loose lips sink ships and all that
03:57:06 <sbp> you're starting to remind me of Willy Wonka. but in a nice way
03:58:09 <jillzilla> is there a NOT nice way to be like Willy Wonka?
03:58:34 <sbp> well, all those oompaloompas... I dunno. I just can't trust a guy that keeps so many of those things
03:58:57 <jillzilla> hmm. true.
03:59:44 <sbp> * sbp had three variables named preoptions, staticoptions, and postoptions or something, and has renamed them BEFORE, DURING, and AFTER
04:00:00 <jillzilla> * jillzilla approves
04:00:01 <sbp> so now I get cool clauses like "if BEFORE and not DURING and not AFTER"
04:00:16 <sbp> which just makes me giggle
04:01:33 <jillzilla> * jillzilla restarts the process and watches the log anxiously
04:01:46 <sbp> good luck
04:02:13 <jillzilla> thanks
04:03:19 <jillzilla> okay, now the other server...
04:03:32 <sbp> you have more than one?!
04:03:39 <jillzilla> I have oodles!
04:03:50 <sbp> ooh, oodles. that's such a great word
04:04:05 <sbp> jillzilla++ # making me happy via the magic of the word "oodles"
04:04:12 <jillzilla> * jillzilla coos
04:06:28 <sbp> the pigeons are having an effect on you, huh? :-)
04:12:40 <d8uv> Hehe. This backlog kicks ass.
04:12:52 <d8uv> Up until my arrival, that it.
04:13:19 <d8uv> Unless things begin to start getting cool again/
04:13:39 <d8uv> Then the part just below this contribution will be kick-ass.
04:14:10 <sbp> let's hope jill's thingy works, then!
04:15:07 <d8uv> Please explain "thingy", else I will get very bad thoughts.
04:15:23 <sbp> "the process"
04:16:01 <jillzilla> it works!
04:16:07 <sbp> whoo!
04:16:09 <sbp> well done
04:16:10 <jillzilla> YAAAY
04:16:10 <d8uv> Kick-ass!
04:16:13 <jillzilla> :)
04:16:18 <sbp> [fireworks]
04:16:23 <sbp> [love]
04:16:25 <sbp> [hugs]
04:16:29 <d8uv> [snogging]
04:16:34 <sbp> [pigeons out of control on M&Ms]
04:16:45 <sbp> [oodles of grins]
04:16:47 <d8uv> [murder]
04:16:51 <sbp> murder?!
04:17:00 <jillzilla> oh, great. now I have to listen to the Philippe song again.
04:17:03 <d8uv> Why not?
04:17:04 <sbp> hahaha
04:17:33 <sbp> d8uv, go and listen to Here Comes A Special Boy again
04:17:55 <Ash> HERE COMES A VERY SPECIAL BOY
04:18:01 <Ash> the philippe song is funny
04:18:02 <Ash> also
04:18:06 <Ash> yesterday's achewood was rad
04:18:14 <d8uv> Rad indeed, sir Ash.
04:18:23 <Ash> rad with a capital D
04:19:22 <d8uv> And the 'a' replaced with a banana.
04:19:37 <d8uv> And that's what my neighborhood looks like.
04:21:03 <d8uv> Think about it.
04:22:08 <sbp> ...
04:22:44 <sbp> whoo! the code's got optionality working!
04:23:56 <sbp> kinda!
04:24:45 <jillzilla> sorta!
04:24:59 <jillzilla> where "working" is defined as "not working"!
04:25:06 <sbp> yes!
04:25:16 <sbp> also, I suck!
04:25:19 <jillzilla> hurrah!
04:25:23 <sbp> hehe
04:25:43 <d8uv> Three cheers for sbp's non functional code!
04:27:32 <sbp> ah, now it's working. hehe
04:27:46 <d8uv> Aw.
04:28:10 <d8uv> Screw functional code. I want buggy useless peices of crap.
04:28:19 <d8uv> Hence X-Chat for Windows here.
04:28:24 <sbp> heh!
04:28:35 <sbp> you should check out Java
04:29:58 <jillzilla> * jillzilla laughs, heads to dinner
04:30:08 <d8uv> Seeya jillzilla
04:30:08 <sbp> c'ya jill
04:30:56 <Ash> <d8uv> The sad thing is, I'm learning Java at school.
04:31:01 <sbp> they're forcing you too, eh?
04:31:02 <jillzilla> ASH
04:31:04 <Ash> the [off] syntax must die
04:31:09 <Ash> hi jillz
04:31:10 <Ash> bye jillz
04:31:11 <Ash> hehe
04:31:12 <Ash> ;)
04:31:16 <jillzilla> * jillzilla stomps Ash, leaves
04:31:20 <d8uv> I didn't use [off]
04:31:24 <d8uv> I used "/."
04:31:43 <Ash> uh huh.[
04:31:55 <sbp> yeah Ash. some people have clients that are insane but not as insane as yours, you know
04:32:18 <Ash> it's still dumb
04:32:26 <Ash> ADMIT IT
04:32:54 <d8uv> Only unless you don't use the Mighty Slashdot Silencing Macro
04:33:16 <d8uv> (A palindromic acronym!)
04:35:56 <sbp> heh, cool:
04:35:57 <sbp> No such argument "-help", try --help
04:37:09 <d8uv> Neat.
04:37:09 <Ash> idiotic doubledash syntax
04:37:11 <Ash> DWIM
04:37:27 <sbp> well
04:37:35 <sbp> it should work that way, yeah
04:37:54 <sbp> because it should treat -help as -h -e -l -p and throw the help immediately upon seeing -h
04:38:04 <sbp> but I haven't implemented that yet
04:38:13 <sbp> SO JUST BACK OFF ALRIGHT
04:42:34 <sbp> hmm
04:42:34 <sbp> $ wc opts.py
04:42:34 <sbp> 227 773 7324 opts.py
04:42:50 <sbp> I was hoping I'd be able to embed it in my code
04:42:56 <sbp> looks like I won't, though. that really sucks
04:43:10 <sbp> Python need to distribute it in the next release
04:43:30 <sbp> but I don't think they'll add a third optparser to the stdlib. bleh
04:44:04 <sbp> oh, though they might add it to an existing optparse module
04:44:17 <sbp> I'd have to really, really improve the code though
04:47:26 <d8uv> My favorite things about AOL CDs are the passwords.
04:47:45 <d8uv> I have "DETERS-GOWNS" and "CAPERS-EYER" here.
04:47:59 <sbp> heh
05:08:15 <d8uv> News! http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-man-in-diaper,0,7604990,print.story?coll=sns-ap-nationworld-headlines
05:34:25 <mediovia> I really don't know what to say about that.
05:50:02 <sbp> 'night all
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05:52:28 <mediovia> good night
05:55:07 <mediovia> segusoLand, narrowing choice by selection: http://segusoland.sourceforge.net/
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07:49:27 <jillzilla> * jillzilla tries to wake up enough to do a code review
07:49:33 <jillzilla> <jillzilla> Yep, that looks like code, all right!
07:49:39 <jillzilla> <jillzilla> Check 'er in!
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11:04:37 <mediovia> Ooh, ladycode!
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14:55:20 <d8uv> News! http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2004/02/26/360849-ap.html
15:02:50 <sbp> d8uv you are group
15:04:45 <thelsdj> my eyes are bleeding
15:05:04 <sbp> C# programming?
15:05:36 <thelsdj> reading the language specs
15:06:11 <sbp> heh
15:08:19 <tav|offline> *** tav|offline is now known as tav
15:09:24 <thelsdj> Events, Interfaces, and Delegates, Oh My!
15:09:58 <sbp> take deep breaths now thelsdj
15:14:17 <thelsdj> only on page 59 of 485
15:14:50 <sbp> and you ought to read it twice
15:15:39 <thelsdj> yea, then i have the OTHER 4 or 5 documents that relate to the libraries and such
15:15:44 <thelsdj> this is just the language specification
15:16:59 <sbp> could be worse (Java)
15:17:14 <thelsdj> bahah
15:22:03 <thelsdj> oh wait sorry theres 7 other technical docs that are part of the standard
15:37:12 <AaronSw> funniest thing ever - Steve Burns Interview (kids show host turned musician): http://www.themorningnews.org/archives/personalities/75000000_toddlers_cant_be_wrong.php
15:37:12 <swhacker> posted 192
15:37:27 <AaronSw> 192:Honestly, this may be the funniest thing I've read in the past year.
15:38:22 <AaronSw> 192:I mean, it's a very serious interview with a very serious musician.
15:38:45 <AaronSw> 192:|must read - Steve Burns Interview
15:38:52 <AaronSw> 192:|must read: Steve Burns Interview
15:42:49 <AaronSw> 192:Also, tips on writing good hate mail: "Notice the excellence: name is wrong, sodomy is threatened, bad puns, total release of rage."
15:45:14 <AaronSw> 192: Mark Pilgrim makes an excellent student: "BTW, your fetish with the Semantic WEb is just an excuse not to organise your thoughts hierarchicly, as God intended. please unsubscribe me from yoru website. than"
15:58:11 <AaronSw> 192: Try your hand.
15:58:34 <AaronSw> 192E:<a href="http://www.gothamist.com/interview/archives/2004/02/24/paul_ford_writerprogrammer.php">Try your hand.</a>
16:30:16 <AaronSw> "Toyota once offered [famous comic artist Robert Crumb] $100,000 to draw an advertisement. He said no. Toyota told him he could draw anything he wanted, anything. Crumb said, OK, I'll draw a picture of a murderer stuffing the headless corpse of a woman into the trunk of a Toyota."
16:39:01 <sbp> heh
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17:55:02 <AaronSw> adventures in banking cont'd: I got a CCF debit card with my picture on it
17:55:41 <AaronSw> now I have 4 cards. seems like overkill, but who am i to judge?
17:56:34 <deltab> they make cards with AaronSw's picture? where can I get one?
17:56:51 <sbp> haha
17:58:36 <AaronSw> Just ask for the "meddling kid" card-type
17:59:03 <sbp> *** sbp has changed the topic to: Home of Meddling Kids
18:07:20 <AaronSw> Ebert: "The paradox is that the Matrix world apparently resembles in every respect the pre-Matrix world. (I am reminded of the animated kid's film "Doug's 1st Movie," which has a VR experience in which everything is exactly like in real life, except more expensive.)"
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20:19:24 <Ash> ESSS.. BEEE... PEEE....
20:20:57 <sbp> AY... ESS... HAHAHAHA...
20:22:33 <Ash> hehehe
20:22:33 <Ash> sup
20:23:09 <sbp> just thinking about cows
20:23:14 <sbp> in people's back gardens
20:23:19 <sbp> that sorta floated there
20:23:19 <Ash> ic
20:23:23 <Ash> i'm thinking about moving to london
20:23:27 <sbp> and so to be removed require helium balloons
20:23:27 <Ash> AND WISHING IT WAS NOW
20:23:29 <sbp> well
20:23:31 <Ash> THAT I WAS MOVING
20:23:33 <Ash> LALALA
20:23:37 <sbp> you wouldn't want to move to London
20:23:51 <sbp> because on average London is a bit... not a nice place to live particularly
20:23:55 <Ash> Veronica lived in Hither Green for a few months, which is outlying
20:24:00 <sbp> yeah
20:24:01 <Ash> she liked it a lot there
20:24:05 <sbp> some of the suburbs are nice
20:24:27 <sbp> but it's like: commutarama
20:24:32 <Ash> heheh.
20:25:04 <Ash> will discuss this more with you later
20:25:07 <Ash> going to lunch, bbiaf
20:25:08 <sbp> just looking for regular sys... okay
20:25:09 <sbp> c'ya
20:27:19 <thelsdj> whats the syntax to edit a comment made on a posting to swhackit?
20:27:46 <sbp> <number><letter>:comment
20:27:51 <sbp> e.g. 90123785912N:comment
20:27:57 <sbp> except the numbers aren't that high yet
20:28:19 <thelsdj> 12A:ugh
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20:50:17 <Ash> back
21:00:13 <sbp> welcome back Ashf'd
21:05:31 <Ash> HI
21:05:33 <Ash> JERK
21:05:35 <Ash> oh i mean
21:05:36 <Ash> hi sbp
21:06:19 <sbp> THE KEYS ARE LIKE RIGHT NEXT TO EACH OTHER
21:18:04 <thelsdj> going down to phoenix tomorrow to spend an evening or possibly a day with that company
21:19:02 <thelsdj> install some bsd servers
21:19:07 <thelsdj> get me a god damn job
21:19:40 <thelsdj> get to be pimped out in a red roof inn bahahah
21:19:52 <thelsdj> ok that wasn't as funny as i thought it would sound
21:27:19 <sbp> my e string! it is borked!
21:27:33 <sbp> so annoying when that happens
21:57:06 <Ash> hi i'm back
21:57:13 <Ash> and now it's time to die
22:02:34 <verbosus> sbp: I went to the music shop a couple of months ago, and bought 8 packs of strings
22:03:04 <verbosus> so I won’t run out of them for another ~6 months :-)
22:29:16 <sbp> heh. I think I've bought 8 packs in the last 5 years
22:50:07 <thelsdj> wow so it looks like i might actaully end up with a job by the time the weekends out
22:51:37 <thelsdj> already asked me to send them paperwork info so they can fill them out and we can just sign haha
22:52:23 <sbp> you should do the impressive d8uv punch-self-in-nose-and-sign-in-blood trick
22:52:33 <sbp> that'll let them know that you're a *real* C# programmer
22:52:44 <sbp> attempt 1 for an infomesh.net favicon: http://infomesh.net/200X/favicon-i.html
22:57:02 <thelsdj> a white star with action lines?
22:57:22 <sbp> it's from a link that you showed me a while back
22:57:30 <sbp> I recreated it in unicode, remember?
22:58:33 <thelsdj> ah cool
22:58:45 <thelsdj> i couldn't view those at the time
22:59:07 <sbp> ahh
23:02:10 <thelsdj> finally got a copy of os x 10.2, it ain't 10.3 but its better than 10.1.5
23:11:58 <sbp> * sbp inches ever closer to having a wikipedia bookmarklet
23:54:25 <tav> wujupedia so good
23:55:07 <sbp> .google wujupedia
23:55:08 <datum> wujupedia: sorry, no results were found.
23:55:10 <tav> cute favicon
23:55:10 <sbp> shame
23:55:21 <sbp> heh, thanks. I'm thinking about going for an interrobang instead
23:55:29 <sbp> but I think they're becoming a bit too common
23:55:34 <sbp> perhaps a wynn or something
23:55:37 <tav> interrobang?
23:55:44 <sbp> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interrobang
23:56:39 <sbp> it's a shame it's not 32x32
23:56:40 <tav> ah, an!?
23:56:45 <sbp> ?!, but yeah
23:56:48 <sbp> U+203D
23:57:14 <d8uv> Hi
23:57:17 <tav> who say what order?
23:57:31 <sbp> hi d8uv. what's your favour(me)ite unicode character?
23:57:45 <tav> myoo!
23:57:46 <d8uv> The space.
23:57:56 <d8uv> I use it enough anyways.
23:58:03 <sbp> you would choose a non-printable one, wouldn't you?
23:58:33 <d8uv> Yeah. It's a tie between that and "e".
23:59:14 <d8uv> U+0065 and U+0032 are roxorful.
23:59:37 <d8uv> Is it 32? Nope...