2004-03-12 Swhack IRC Log

00:11:22 <tav> *** tav is now known as tav|offline
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00:17:43 <Ash> THE TAV
00:18:55 <Ash> what is going on tav
00:18:59 <Ash> you crazy party animal
01:14:37 <jillzilla> our code has gone unstable. ARGH. Hellish day.
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01:23:45 <Morbus> *** Morbus (~morbus@pool-68-237-130-150.man.east.verizon.net) has joined #swhack
01:38:14 <Morbus> NP: 'The Outer Limits (Original TV Series) (Leslie Steven)' from Various Artists's album 'Sci-Fi's Greatest Hits Vol. 2: The Dark Side'; Unrated; http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/B00000G4T4/disobeycom/
01:40:39 <Morbus> NP: 'Alfred Hitchcock Presents (Charles Gounod)' from Various Artists's album 'Sci-Fi's Greatest Hits Vol. 2: The Dark Side'; Unrated; http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/B00000G4T4/disobeycom/
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02:17:20 <Morbus> NP: 'Suspiria (Goblin)' from Various Artists's album 'Sci-Fi's Greatest Hits Vol. 2: The Dark Side'; Rating: 5/5; http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/B00000G4T4/disobeycom/
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03:35:09 <Ash> GIR
03:35:31 <Ash> jillzilla: welcome to hell HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
03:35:34 <d8uv> Girls in Rockets?
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05:10:34 <jillzilla> GIR
05:10:44 <jillzilla> It's the name of Invader Zim's robot sidekick.
05:10:48 <jillzilla> It's "advanced".
05:15:49 <deltab> watch 'Invader Zim - The Nightmare Begins' for more
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05:17:32 <jillzilla> * jillzilla suddenly feels the funk level drop.
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05:21:12 <deltab> heh, 'Doom Song (techno mix)'
05:25:09 <jillzilla> oh, wow. how can I hear that?
05:26:12 <deltab> do you have an edonkey-compatible client?
05:26:26 <jillzilla> no
05:26:34 <jillzilla> and I don't have time to get one
05:26:41 <jillzilla> so I think I'll just forego the pleasure
05:26:46 <jillzilla> forgo
05:26:51 <jillzilla> * jillzilla doesnt' know how to spell that.
05:34:38 <deltab> I can send it to you
05:35:19 <d8uv> I don't like edonkey much.
05:35:25 <deltab> (fastest edonkey download ever!)
05:35:31 <d8uv> I like G2 and BT better.
05:36:04 <deltab> me neither, but for some reason it's worked really well for me recently
05:48:30 <d8uv> w00t! I type 40 WPM!
05:48:34 <d8uv> I AM AWESOME
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06:15:51 <xovver> We should set up a tracker and keep a permanent #swhack swarm…
06:21:45 <xovver> Motivational Posters II (Some People Dream of Success, While Other People Live To Crush Those Dreams): http://www.demotivators.com/
06:21:46 <swhacker> posted 229
07:34:42 <jillzilla> deltab, are you still here?
07:34:46 <deltab> yes
07:35:01 <jillzilla> could you possibly send that doom song remix to me?
07:35:14 <jillzilla> I just noticed the offer.
07:35:45 <deltab> yep, how?
07:36:28 <jillzilla> i can't do dcc...if you have a web page that would work...
07:36:35 <jillzilla> i could make my ftp server work again
07:36:47 <jillzilla> heh. email would work
07:36:52 <jillzilla> might be the easiest
07:37:14 <deltab> I have to transfer it to yin in either case
07:37:26 <jillzilla> ah
07:37:39 <jillzilla> is that a lot of trouble?
07:38:13 <deltab> no, just a scp
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08:49:55 <xover> * xover sighs…
08:50:52 <xover> Clueless vendor rep… Sold shitty system to Neurology dept.… Now decides it's a good idea to send a 4MB .wav to every contact in his address book.
08:51:41 <xover> Are we allowed to execute such specimens for the greater good of the gene pool I wonder?
09:00:30 <deltab> 085912Z #validator <diz> unfortunately the cygwin terminal doesn't support utf-8
09:00:37 <deltab> sbp: true?
09:01:47 <xover> False, I'm fairly sure. Not that I'd bet on it.
09:03:15 <libby> *** libby (~libby@82-32-4-244.cable.ubr01.azte.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #swhack
10:02:23 <sbp> rxvt on cygwin does not support utf-8
10:02:34 <sbp> it barely even supports iso-8859-1
10:03:03 <sbp> GIR is most awesome. "I miss the cupcake"
10:03:36 <sbp> I am sorry to hear about jill's hellish day
10:03:42 <sbp> I am sorry to hear about xover's hellish day
10:03:52 <sbp> I am sorry to hear about d8uv's almost certainly hellish day
10:03:59 <sbp> hi deltab and Ash
10:04:21 <sbp> and libby, who's joinance I almost overlooked
10:05:41 <sbp> s/who's/whose/
10:05:58 <libby> morning sbp :)
10:06:31 <sbp> heya
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11:53:36 <sbp> .gc Magellanic
11:53:38 <xena> Magellanic: 110,000
11:53:49 <sbp> so much Magelanicity
11:54:00 <sbp> only with two l's
12:02:51 <sbp> .gc Magellanicity
12:02:52 <xena> no results found.
12:03:33 <sbp> I wonder if any other adjective appears more than 100,000 times without having any instance of a nominal form?
12:03:55 <sbp> answers on a postcard
12:04:52 <sbp> .googlecount googlecount
12:04:52 <datum> googlecount: 212
12:09:49 <sbp> (la 'la '(la))
12:10:26 <sbp> * sbp gets a minor flood of good ideas
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13:55:40 <evangineer> neologism of the day: recockulous!
13:56:02 <sbp> not new. seen it many times
13:56:34 <sbp> * sbp calls common on that word!
13:56:37 <sbp> :-)
13:56:52 <sbp> I'm quite proud of "joinage"
13:57:43 <sbp> * sbp is currently overflowing with ideas, and not writing them down anywhere--eek
13:57:54 <sbp> mainly along the usual lines of information management
13:58:12 <sbp> the notes program has evolved in my mind into a custom shell
13:59:02 <sbp> I've been analysing yet again how I store and retrieve notes, and I think that one flat space is the best idea; I use my "swhack" alias almost as much as "ls" lately
13:59:47 <sbp> I've got "note" as an alias to create a text file, but I don't like it 'cause it requires me to watch quoting etc.
14:00:06 <sbp> hence the idea of a dedicated shell. I could do it the right way around then
14:00:11 <sbp> huffmanly
14:00:21 <evangineer> my neologism of the day proposal withdrawn!
14:00:26 <sbp> i.e. commands would have some sort of prefix, and anything else would be sucked in
14:00:30 <sbp> evangineer: heh!
14:00:44 <sbp> evangineer: you can apply again after 5 working days
14:01:15 <evangineer> hmm, then it would be neologism of the day?!
14:01:24 <evangineer> s/day/week/
14:01:42 <sbp> heh. no, you can't apply for the same word twice--that would be "re-apply"
14:02:05 <sbp> once a word has been rejected by the Swhack committee as a neologism, it ceases to exist! so be careful what you submit
14:02:31 <evangineer> * evangineer searches for his backup copy of the word
14:02:40 <sbp> heh, heh
14:02:52 <sbp> I hope you were using RCS or similar
14:03:25 <Morbus> *** Morbus (~morbus@morbus.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack
14:03:26 <sbp> * sbp thinks he's going to rather enjoy meeting evangineer
14:03:36 <sbp> Morbus! come blow your horn
14:03:40 <evangineer> RCS? that would require self-discipline or something!
14:04:13 <sbp> evangineer: yeah. that's why I don't use it either. come people keep their entire home directories in CVS, though. masochists
14:04:18 <sbp> s/come/some/
14:04:33 <Morbus> i use cvs for coding only.
14:04:38 <evangineer> not mentioning any names, joey hess!
14:04:39 <Morbus> and only on major projects.
14:04:45 <sbp> .g CVS home dir
14:04:45 <datum> CVS home dir: http://www.gigascale.org/softdevel/faq/22.html
14:05:29 <evangineer> I've been known to use RCS for config files
14:05:35 <sbp> yeah. correct link: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=5976
14:05:47 <sbp> though it seems everyone on the planet has read it by now
14:05:47 <redmonk> *** redmonk (~steve@208.38.224.146) has joined #swhack
14:06:11 <deltab> sbp: have note read stdin instead
14:06:11 <sbp> I have my own little RCS-substitute
14:06:14 <evangineer> * evangineer also has a copy of the actual physical issue of LJ in question
14:06:19 <redmonk> swhack!
14:06:32 <sbp> $ cat archive
14:06:32 <sbp> #!/bin/bash
14:06:32 <sbp> EXT=.${1#*.}; if ((${#EXT} == ${#1}+1)); then EXT=''; fi
14:06:32 <sbp> cp $1 ${1%%.*}-$(date -u +%Y%m%d-%H%M%S)$EXT
14:06:50 <sbp> deltab: I thought of that, but then that means I have to do "note<ENTER>type note"
14:07:01 <sbp> er, and then Ctrl-D
14:07:13 <deltab> or dot, or whatever you choose
14:07:13 <sbp> I just want to do: "type note<ENTER>"
14:07:22 <sbp> that's a point
14:07:37 <sbp> well, <enter>.<enter>, no?
14:08:00 <Morbus> you should code it in perl so i can help.
14:08:09 <Morbus> no one expects the morbus inquisitoin
14:08:16 <sbp> Morbus: you'd be interested in such a thing?
14:08:17 <redmonk> lol
14:08:17 <deltab> but what you actually do is "note, er does this have special chars in it?" or "note blah blah blah, why is the prompt now '>'?"
14:08:19 <sbp> hehheh
14:08:23 <redmonk> MURBOS!
14:08:34 <evangineer> sbp, I like the idea of shell as interface, which is why my preferred ftp/sftp client is lftp
14:08:45 <Morbus> monkinetic.
14:09:31 <deltab> sbp: or you could read just one line, and not have a special terminator
14:09:37 <sbp> * sbp understands not the deltab
14:09:38 <evangineer> I also saw a password manager program, that uses a shell like interface. I've been meaning to try it out.
14:09:46 <sbp> reading one line is a good idea
14:10:10 <Morbus> i'd want syntax for snippets though.
14:10:21 <Morbus> so, i'd do both.
14:10:27 <sbp> snippets as in quotes?
14:10:37 <Morbus> or code, or whatever.
14:10:40 <sbp> * sbp really, really needs a good password manager
14:10:42 <Morbus> if i could do "note this is a note"
14:10:49 <sbp> oh. multiline... hmm
14:10:54 <Morbus> and "note THIS IS A MULTILINE SET OF CODE THAT WOULD NORMALLY RUN IN BASH"
14:11:02 <Morbus> and have things work as I expoect them too, i'd be happy <g>
14:11:21 <sbp> make sure you include the right shebang, and just paste the junkX0r in
14:11:35 <Morbus> well, the big problem is the shell.
14:11:38 <sbp> that's one of the overriding things that I've learned from this: make sure that the metadata is inherent in the data!
14:11:52 <Morbus> if i paste shell code into a shell, regardless of "note" or whateevr, the shell is gonna try to interpret it.
14:11:57 <sbp> right, which is why I was thinking of subverting it altogether and make my own
14:11:58 <Morbus> i'd have to have "note <ENTER>", and then paste.
14:12:03 <Morbus> making your own shell?
14:12:05 <Morbus> jesus christ, sbp.
14:12:09 <Morbus> i mean, fucking really.
14:12:13 <Morbus> stop wasting your time.
14:12:14 <sbp> no, it's not that hard
14:12:17 <deltab> I used to keep forgetting that with URLs for download
14:12:17 <sbp> what?
14:12:24 <sbp> it's going to be like a page's worth of code
14:12:28 <redmonk> "come see the metatdata inherent in the data!"
14:12:29 <Morbus> WHO CARES?!
14:12:42 <sbp> because it's be significantly less of a hork-job
14:12:47 <Morbus> SHALL I POST CAT PICTURES TO DNN BECAUSE ITS TWO LINES OF CODE?
14:12:51 <Morbus> be useful.
14:12:55 <sbp> it is useful
14:12:59 <Morbus> well, be useful to *me*.
14:13:04 <sbp> heh, heh
14:13:07 <Morbus> make code that *I* would use.
14:13:17 <sbp> you just said you wanted multiline non-interepreted entry
14:13:19 <Morbus> nothing you've ever done, I have any desire to *use*.
14:13:25 <sbp> likewise
14:13:26 <Morbus> that may be fine for you, man, but I feel really cheated.
14:13:54 <Morbus> "likewise"? the difference is that you're now talking about an app I'd want to use.
14:14:09 <Morbus> please let me use it <g>
14:14:15 <redmonk> * redmonk checks in code on his secret project
14:14:22 <sbp> well. see this is the odd thing
14:14:30 <sbp> 1) Morbus asks for a feature to be included
14:14:50 <sbp> 2) Sean says good idea, and gives the simplest and most straightforward solution that requires pretty much no effort for an experience coder
14:15:02 <sbp> 3) Morbus goes several kinds of pretty-food-coloured ape shit
14:15:02 <redmonk> now sbp, asking for consitency from Morbus was your first mistake.
14:15:16 <Morbus> sbp: there's a huge difference in getting what I want, and usability.
14:15:19 <redmonk> that's "consistency"
14:15:38 <sbp> Morbus: then *you* solve it and tell me what you want codeed
14:15:45 <Morbus> ne'ermind, sbp.
14:15:45 <sbp> if I think it's a good idea, then I may just do it
14:15:53 <Morbus> i don't think we'll ever live together on a programmatic level.
14:15:59 <Morbus> let's just have makeup sex.
14:16:02 <sbp> FUCK YOU YES WE WILL
14:16:08 <sbp> NO. GET ALONG, BITCH
14:16:12 <sbp> :-)
14:16:13 <redmonk> i don't think i'd want to live together with morbus on any level;)
14:16:17 <sbp> hehe
14:16:20 <Morbus> :)
14:16:28 <sbp> oh fine, fine, skip to make-up sex
14:16:32 <Morbus> woohoo!
14:16:38 <Morbus> i got the enema bucket!
14:16:54 <deltab> cosmetics fetish?
14:17:05 <sbp> mraw. deltab's joinin' in
14:17:16 <Morbus> woohoo!
14:17:29 <Morbus> i like the goth's-been-crying look.
14:17:40 <Morbus> .g goth's crying
14:17:40 <sbp> that's the "in" thing, is it?
14:17:41 <datum> goth's crying: http://groups.msn.com/GothsMoshersAndRockers/dreams.msnw
14:17:51 <Morbus> it was in like 5 years ago.
14:17:54 <Morbus> i thought it was hella out.
14:17:56 <deltab> don't you know?
14:17:57 <deltab> 141628Z #swhack <sbp> oh fine, fine, skip to make-up sex
14:18:00 <Morbus> hell, 8 years ago probably.
14:18:04 <Morbus> ah.
14:18:57 <sbp> * sbp imagines a little tube of eyeliner humping a bottle of nail varnish
14:19:26 <Morbus> and the lipstick liner is going "make me bLLeeed. make me BLlleleeeeeD! don't dab me. BlleleeeeeD!"
14:19:38 <deltab> oh dear.
14:19:41 <sbp> * sbp expects eyelash varnish on the market in about nine months
14:20:11 <sbp> Morbus takes kink to a whole new level as usual
14:20:25 <Morbus> i am the sequel, of course.
14:20:30 <sbp> * sbp nods
14:20:44 <Morbus> speaking of which, i'm still looking for bella loves jenna.
14:20:49 <Morbus> sbp, did you ever watch that trailer?
14:21:02 <sbp> trailer? oh, the thing that I had to register for? nope
14:21:11 <Morbus> no, this was a free one.
14:21:15 <sbp> hmm
14:21:17 <Morbus> bellalovesjenna.com
14:21:37 <sbp> you don't appear to have shown me it
14:21:44 <Morbus> odd.
14:21:56 <Morbus> anyways, if you see that movie in your digitravels, lemme know.
14:22:02 <Morbus> holy ass, i'm talking like zdnet.
14:22:02 <sbp> will do
14:22:05 <Morbus> digitraivels.
14:22:05 <Morbus> heh.
14:22:11 <sbp> .gc digitraivels
14:22:13 <xena> no results found.
14:22:20 <sbp> you're also speaking like me
14:22:22 <sbp> .gc digitravels
14:22:22 <Morbus> .g digitravels
14:22:23 <datum> digitravels: sorry, no results were found.
14:22:23 <xena> digitravels: 1
14:22:25 <libby> *** libby (~libby@82-32-4-244.cable.ubr01.azte.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #swhack
14:22:28 <sbp> ooh, one
14:22:35 <Morbus> what's the diff between d and x?
14:22:53 <sbp> well that's odd. it says that there's one result, and then doesn't return it
14:23:28 <Morbus> now, when you go check out that bug, lemme know how many snarky comments you find.
14:23:30 <Morbus> * Morbus ducks.
14:23:45 <Morbus> [09:22] <sal> fine here.
14:23:45 <Morbus> [09:22] <Chewie[]> hrm :-/
14:23:45 <Morbus> [09:22] <Morbus> you are not fine.
14:23:45 <Morbus> [09:22] <Morbus> you are granular.
14:23:50 <sbp> snarky comments?
14:23:53 <sbp> heh
14:24:14 <Morbus> can't wait to get FFXI.
14:24:20 <Morbus> buying a router this weekend.
14:24:21 <sbp> hmm. Firefox has just crashed in a very odd manner
14:24:23 <Morbus> that should be fun.
14:24:26 <Morbus> i hate networks.
14:24:28 <Morbus> i hate dsl.
14:24:36 <Morbus> and i'm doing it all for iTunes and FFXI.
14:24:40 <Morbus> the hell is wrong with me.
14:24:44 <Morbus> i don't know.
14:24:45 <sbp> so why are... that's odd
14:24:57 <sbp> hmm
14:24:58 <sbp> [[[
14:24:59 <sbp> In Arbeit - [ Translate this page ]
14:24:59 <sbp> Hier wird noch gearbeitet, aber... demnächst
14:24:59 <sbp> finden Sie hier... Digitravels.com ,.
14:24:59 <sbp> www.digitravels.com/ - 2k - Cached - Similar pages
14:25:00 <sbp> ]]]
14:25:16 <sbp> cool picture: http://www.digitravels.com/ei2.gif
14:25:33 <sbp> much better than "under construction" with a naked stick-figure workman
14:26:32 <Morbus> i started fiddling with video files again last night.
14:26:38 <Morbus> http://disobey.com/d/lists/video_files
14:26:45 <Morbus> no longer automation. hand-rolled.
14:27:06 <Morbus> and used the alistapart zebra stripes.
14:27:11 <Morbus> or, a modification thereof.
14:27:43 <Morbus> the biggest annoyance is no "recently added" equivalent.
14:27:53 <Morbus> but i added about five of my 20 britney movies. heh, heh.
14:28:02 <Morbus> still gotta figure out an autoimated recently added thing.
14:28:03 <sbp> haha. "Random MacWorld camera catching Ellen yawning and jibbering."
14:28:07 <sbp> man, the stuff you get
14:28:07 <Morbus> don't want to do it manually.
14:28:18 <Morbus> "I mainly traffick in videos you see once, then forget about, until..."
14:28:21 <Morbus> :)
14:28:25 <sbp> I like the stripes, FWIW
14:28:34 <Morbus> sbp: that's js/dom/css/
14:28:39 <deltab> Morbus: until the court case?
14:28:53 <Morbus> "Generally, I live by the fansubber credo: if I can buy it in my country of origin (USA), then I don't keep a digital format lying around. If you think I've kept a file in blatant disregard to that self-imposed policy, it was probably an accident, so please let me know at the above email."
14:28:57 <sbp> oh. I remember styling stripes using that method before
14:29:05 <sbp> except I was being original. I thought
14:29:26 <Morbus> i guess i'd have to do a diff sorta thing.
14:29:29 <Morbus> for the recently added.
14:29:33 <Morbus> cos i can't do modify date.
14:29:52 <sbp> why not?
14:29:56 <Morbus> so, i'd diff the two HTMLs, then parse the diff, look for that entry in the new.html
14:30:00 <Morbus> modify date of the file?
14:30:11 <sbp> why can't you add the modification date
14:30:23 <Morbus> no, i can add the modification date easily enough, but it won't mean anything.
14:30:31 <Morbus> i've got files from 10 years ago that i've not yet cataloged.
14:30:38 <sbp> oh, okay
14:30:41 <Morbus> adding them to the list doesn't modify the file.
14:30:54 <Morbus> i'd have to keep an old/new list and diff/parse that.
14:32:18 <Morbus> this is about 20% of my collection.
14:32:21 <Morbus> kinda annoying.
14:32:25 <Morbus> i'm running outta HD space though.
14:32:33 <Morbus> so i wanna recatalog/rearchive stuff and get it off.
14:32:34 <sbp> how much do you have?
14:32:45 <Morbus> i've 160 on the G5, down to 20 now.
14:32:52 <Morbus> got an 80gig drive on another machine.
14:32:57 <Morbus> been backing stuff up there too
14:33:07 <sbp> why do you collect?
14:33:28 <Morbus> ask brewster
14:33:45 <sbp> => why don't you collect useful stuff?
14:33:53 <Morbus> brewster has that market cornered.
14:33:58 <sbp> heh!
14:34:01 <Morbus> :)
14:34:09 <sbp> "for everything else, go to Morbus"
14:34:13 <Morbus> :)
14:34:36 <sbp> but you must enjoy it or hav esome other Morbous aims and so forth, right?
14:34:44 <sbp> it wasn't a *challenge*, it was an actual question
14:34:48 <Morbus> since i've put that list online, i've gotten probably a hundred emails from people asking for specific movies.
14:34:50 <Morbus> not "i want all of these".
14:35:02 <Morbus> but "ahahahah, i'n looking for that movie with the fountain, and the penis"
14:35:10 <sbp> heh, hmm
14:35:13 <Morbus> "can i get a copy? i'll send you this thing of a guy with a monitor on his head".
14:35:17 <Morbus> and it goes downhill from there.
14:35:21 <Morbus> i *love* that sort of transaction.
14:35:25 <Morbus> it fuels me.
14:35:27 <sbp> distributed laughter
14:35:28 <deltab> there is a downhill from there?
14:35:34 <sbp> hehheh
14:35:35 <Morbus> because, where the hell else would these people find that stuff.
14:35:38 <Morbus> heh, heh.
14:36:00 <Morbus> last night, for instance.
14:36:08 <Morbus> i just got an email from china, asking for the "video with christopher walken dancing".
14:36:15 <Morbus> which is the fatboy slim thing. relatively common video.
14:36:24 <Morbus> i didn't trade with him cos its too common to waste my time.
14:36:30 <Morbus> but, ten years from now? i'd trade it.
14:36:38 <deltab> yeah, Weapon of Choice, also available in stick-figure SWF
14:36:43 <Morbus> then there was the time that E! Online emailed me <g>
14:38:11 <sbp> .g "E! Online" Morbus conspiracy
14:38:12 <datum> "E! Online" Morbus conspiracy: http://home.westman.wave.ca/~hillmans/erbz501.html
14:38:19 <sbp> hmm!
14:42:06 <sbp> hmm...
14:42:07 <sbp> "hmm"?
14:52:31 <sbp> Morbus. what are your top five tips for productivity
14:53:43 <sbp> <Morbus> 1) don't answer stupid questions on IRC
14:54:03 <Morbus> hmm?
14:54:37 <sbp> five tips for productivity, Morbus style. I think it'd make a good DNN entry
14:54:54 <sbp> "read magazines whilst on the toilet. you can wipe your ass with them when done, also"
14:54:54 <Morbus> you know, i think i've probably written a disjointed version of that somewhere already ;)
14:55:00 <Morbus> actually, i do do that.
14:55:02 <Morbus> but no wiping.
14:55:05 <sbp> hehheh
14:55:17 <sbp> you did the Tantek rant, which is the basis of my thought
14:55:31 <sbp> but the Tantek rant was just you taking a look at the Morbus world
14:55:34 <Morbus> the tantek rant?
14:55:41 <sbp> yeah. PRUNE, CLOSE, etc.
14:55:42 <Morbus> sounds familiar.
14:55:44 <Morbus> oh, right.
14:55:49 <Morbus> yeah, i never followed that.
14:55:54 <Morbus> <g>
14:55:57 <sbp> didn't think you would. hehe
14:58:32 <sbp> well, here's a more specific question: you say I've never done anything useful; prattle off some things that you'd consider worth investing time in
14:58:47 <Morbus> is this an aggressive challenge?
14:59:00 <Morbus> inevitably, we're going to get to a point where you'll be "well, what about this?" and i'll be "never seen it. neat".
14:59:03 <sbp> I'm not prone to aggressive challenges
14:59:07 <Morbus> i don't see the discussion being anything useful.
14:59:13 <sbp> to you
14:59:24 <sbp> but you're saying that I'm lacking ze Morbus lustre
14:59:37 <Morbus> no, no, i'm saying that I think you could be doing a lot more with yourslef.
14:59:48 <sbp> and I'm saying: such as?
15:00:03 <Morbus> actually, you know, i'm not even saying that.
15:00:17 <Morbus> what i'm really saying is: half the shit you do, i don't understand.
15:00:27 <Morbus> and that's probably my biggest problem.
15:01:04 <sbp> man, this is like trying to nail a jelly to the ceiling
15:01:17 <sbp> tasty and messy
15:02:02 <Morbus> heh, heh.
15:02:14 <Morbus> hold. phone.
15:02:18 <sbp> ah, this is what I mean:
15:02:19 <sbp> <Morbus> jesus christ, sbp.
15:02:19 <sbp> <Morbus> i mean, fucking really.
15:02:19 <sbp> <Morbus> stop wasting your time.
15:02:26 <sbp> okay
15:02:38 <sbp> * sbp wonders what to hold--hmm...
15:02:47 <sbp> * sbp goes and gets something to hold
15:02:49 <sbp> er, eat
15:03:45 <Morbus> ok.
15:03:55 <Morbus> there were two things, recently, that bugged me about you.
15:04:04 <Morbus> and, just to complete my thoughts,
15:04:05 <Morbus> [[[
15:04:12 <Morbus> a) the smallest wiki thing.
15:04:20 <Morbus> i can understand a certain level of fun experiementation.
15:04:30 <Morbus> and i'm certainly jealous that you have that time to do so.
15:04:39 <Morbus> lord knows I wish I could experiment with shit more.
15:04:54 <Morbus> but, i just feel like you could be doing *bigger* things.
15:05:01 <Morbus> and I don't mean Ghyll bigger things.
15:05:07 <Morbus> that's just an fun experment too.
15:05:14 <Morbus> and i don't mean LibDB or Ampheta.
15:05:22 <Morbus> because those are things I think are below you.
15:05:35 <Morbus> i just wish you spent more time doing things for other people.
15:05:40 <Morbus> which sounds rude as fuck.
15:05:52 <Morbus> but, who the hell is *really* gonna use the world's smallest wiki?
15:06:04 <Morbus> b) "a page of code to rewrite a shell".
15:06:10 <Morbus> that's a paraphrase.
15:06:17 <Morbus> but that's the impression i got you were saying.
15:06:25 <Morbus> why even waste the time reinventing a shell?
15:06:30 <Morbus> why waste the time reinventing a wiki?
15:06:43 <Morbus> you're gonna die, and i feel like all your shit is just gonna disappear.
15:06:51 <Morbus> no one wil know it exists.
15:06:56 <Morbus> that regexp to match itself.
15:07:05 <Morbus> blah blah blah.
15:07:11 <Morbus> ]]]
15:07:14 <Morbus> i have no clue what i'm saying anymore.
15:07:17 <deltab> yeah
15:07:54 <sbp> deltab: yeah to which part?
15:08:12 <deltab> all
15:08:35 <sbp> ...hmm
15:08:47 <deltab> it's like playing Minesweeper
15:09:00 <sbp> oh dear gosh no!
15:09:08 <Morbus> wait, what?
15:09:13 <Morbus> minesweeper? now i'm confused <g>
15:09:14 <deltab> I no longer bother, because where's it going to get me?
15:09:24 <Morbus> ah/.
15:09:26 <sbp> ah
15:10:09 <deltab> skills learnt playing minesweeper don't transfer to anything else
15:10:32 <deltab> I'd rather spend my time reading new stuff or answering people's questions
15:10:55 <sbp> well the smallest wiki thing was minor prestige, but prestige nontheless. and I think it was valuable because I learned a substantial about of perl, and got to practice some python idiopms that I'll be using elsewhere. also, to make the code smaller, I had to think very carefully about an efficient and smooth procedure
15:11:53 <deltab> yeah, that at least has some value
15:12:21 <sbp> minesweeper improves hand eye coordination, and it has some interesting logical problems, but once you learn all the obvious rules and figure it out, it ceases to become useful. I don't think it has zero value, just an increasingly trivial one
15:13:15 <deltab> yeah, it just becomes mechanical
15:13:36 <sbp> the shell thing is part of a much larger set of observations which aren't all that random. I'm catastrophically bad at organization; and even though William tells me that the clutter's inherent to the organism, I still see that sometimes I can make neat hacks which massively improve my productivity
15:13:51 <deltab> * deltab nods
15:14:34 <sbp> nontheless, I do agree more on that point--and almost fully. in a year of trying to impove my notetaking skills, I have probably learned less than the amount of effort I've put in. I did not expect that, however, and I'm not sure I could've predicted it
15:15:14 <sbp> but I agree because now I do have a precedent, and the precedent tells me to give the fuck up--but I still feel tantalizingly close to building a *something* that's going to halve the effort it takes me to go about my other projects
15:15:49 <deltab> then by all means work on it from time to time
15:15:52 <sbp> one useful thing that did come out of it was my filesystem
15:16:24 <sbp> well, time to time is what I'm doing... today's been the first time in a while. unfortunately, the scope of things that I get excited about changes rapidly and randomly...
15:16:57 <deltab> me likewise
15:17:05 <MorbusIff> *** MorbusIff (~morbus@morbus.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack
15:17:36 <sbp> anyway, on the filesystem: for years I'd been really trashing my filesystem, just putting files in more or less random locations. it was a nightmare to find anything. then one day I decided to really study what things are most important, and have been revising my structure since. I can feel a really substantial benefit in that area--especially when I have to start from scratch e.g. to losing data or using other people's systems
15:17:50 <deltab> now filesystems, those are interesting
15:17:55 <sbp> deltab: and in AaronSw too, I think. seems fairly universal...
15:18:26 <deltab> Alan Kay's BurnTheDiskPacks
15:18:36 <sbp> Morbus: logs are at http://miscoranda.com/swhack/latest if you want to review
15:18:43 <deltab> http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?BurnTheDiskpacks
15:18:43 <sbp> .g BurnTheDiskPacks
15:18:44 <datum> BurnTheDiskPacks: http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?BurnTheDiskpacks
15:18:50 <sbp> hehheh. thanks
15:19:36 <sbp> hoo. interesting. I'm thinking about doing it again soon
15:19:45 <sbp> when it happened the first time, *then* I started to think about it
15:20:02 <sbp> but because it was only then that I started, by the time I'd come up with anything good, it was too late again
15:20:58 <Morbus> *** Morbus has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
15:21:08 <sbp> I get really irritated with details too, especially trivial ones which probably won't help. for example, clutterous dotfiles in my home directory really, really, really bug me. I was thinking about all sorts of hacks to trick programs into thinking that my HOME directory is elsewhere
15:21:41 <deltab> yeah, that annoys me
15:22:31 <deltab> I have ~/etc/ for some things
15:22:46 <sbp> ~/config for me. at least, I tried...
15:22:59 <redmonk> *** redmonk has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
15:23:02 <sbp> but most programs are just really too dumb
15:23:04 <deltab> yeah, more logical name
15:23:43 <deltab> looking forward to per-process namespaces
15:23:50 <sbp> yeah
15:24:10 <deltab> combined with union mounts
15:24:13 <redmonk> *** redmonk (~steve@208.38.224.146) has joined #swhack
15:24:13 <sbp> * sbp remembers you talking about those before
15:24:21 <sbp> union mounts?
15:25:14 <deltab> combine several directories into one
15:25:14 <sbp> * sbp googles
15:25:24 <sbp> ooh!
15:25:41 <sbp> oh, obvious really from the name
15:26:00 <redmonk> heh
15:26:05 <deltab> so for instance /bin = /bin + /sbin + /usr/bin + ...
15:26:38 <deltab> or ~ = ~ + ~/dotfiles/fooapp/
15:26:48 <sbp> * sbp wonders how many problems of his that'll resolve
15:27:09 <MorbusIff> see, this is where I can't link with you guys mentally.
15:27:23 <MorbusIff> because all these solutions you're talking about: they're certainly neat, but they won't do anything exciting to me.
15:27:28 <MorbusIff> i don't have the same problems you have.
15:27:35 <MorbusIff> that's probably why i can't relate.
15:28:13 <sbp> or perhaps you solve them in your own ways automatically such to your own satisfaction
15:28:28 <deltab> or something that's available now, DBUS
15:28:32 <sbp> and we can't solve them to our satisfactions, so they bug the crap out of us
15:28:35 <MorbusIff> well, if that's the case, it's because I don't make them a problem to start out with.
15:28:49 <MorbusIff> i don't knowingly care about .dotfiles in my home.
15:28:56 <MorbusIff> though, i've configured my finder to show them automatically.
15:29:09 <MorbusIff> and i've never had bin/sbin/usr/bin problems.
15:29:14 <sbp> * sbp checks out http://www.freedesktop.org/software/dbus/doc/dbus-tutorial.html
15:29:21 <deltab> how many do you have? do they get in the way?
15:29:36 <MorbusIff> how many of what do I have?
15:29:38 <MorbusIff> all are in my path.
15:29:51 <deltab> dotfiles
15:30:03 <MorbusIff> i have /Applications, /Applications (OS 9), /bin, /sbin/, /usr/bin/, /usr/sbin/, and ~/Applications
15:30:07 <MorbusIff> oh, maybe 10 or so.
15:30:23 <MorbusIff> i don't install a lot of software, really, because it just makes new computers and restorations longer.
15:30:30 <sbp> $ ls -a -1 | grep ^\. | wc -l
15:30:31 <sbp>   88
15:30:33 <MorbusIff> i try to do things only with what the OS gave me, or what I can program and control myself.
15:30:42 <MorbusIff> sbp: /me nods.
15:30:53 <MorbusIff> i've probably got hundreds of files in ~/Library/Preferences
15:30:58 <sbp> wait, that can't be right. what've I done wrong there?
15:30:59 <MorbusIff> because that's where OS X stores most everything.
15:31:04 <deltab> good
15:31:22 <MorbusIff> but even then, i go through that directory once a month deleting stuff.
15:31:30 <MorbusIff> its "quiet time" for me. soothing.
15:31:32 <MorbusIff> like id3ing.
15:31:44 <deltab> that's the sort of place they should be, not at the start of your home dir
15:32:47 <MorbusIff> so, do you guys use a visual browser, or an ls?
15:32:57 <sbp> usually a visual one
15:32:58 <MorbusIff> can't you just alias ls to a bunch of greps that remove dots you don't care to see?
15:33:04 <MorbusIff> ah
15:33:08 <sbp> ls doesn't display dotfiles by default
15:33:15 <MorbusIff> yeah, i know that.
15:33:20 <MorbusIff> but i always alias it so it does.
15:33:21 <deltab> that's why they're dotfiles
15:33:24 <MorbusIff> i hate having things hidden.
15:33:30 <deltab> me too
15:33:32 <sbp> me too
15:33:33 <sbp> heh
15:33:35 <MorbusIff> :)
15:33:51 <MorbusIff> how many have an "l" alias?
15:33:52 <deltab> so we get loads of not-hidden hidden stuff in our home dirs
15:33:58 <MorbusIff> l=ls -la --color | less
15:34:00 <MorbusIff> that's what I use.
15:34:13 <deltab> my l is less
15:34:19 <MorbusIff> and p=ps auxw
15:34:26 <MorbusIff> with a less pipe.
15:34:34 <sbp> alias df='df -kTh'
15:34:34 <sbp> alias ls='ls -ahF --color'
15:34:34 <sbp> alias ,='ls -CFs'
15:34:34 <sbp> alias ..='cd ..'
15:34:34 <sbp> alias uhm='fc -l -7'
15:34:35 <sbp> alias punge='cat <<EOF | perl -ne'
15:34:37 <sbp> alias wget='wget -c'
15:34:39 <deltab> ll for ls -l
15:35:10 <MorbusIff> yeah, i think that's a standard one.
15:35:12 <MorbusIff> the ll.
15:35:35 <MorbusIff> i really should g=grep.
15:35:40 <MorbusIff> i use grep like there''s no tomorrow.
15:36:13 <deltab> sbp: aha! something that reads stdin
15:36:26 <deltab> sbp: why not perl -ne <<EOF ?
15:36:29 <MorbusIff> so, why is union mounts a solution to your problem? what's the problem anyways?
15:36:46 <sbp> punge? yeah, but I don't use it all that much these days
15:36:48 <sbp> heh. dunno. didn't think of that!
15:36:52 <sbp> * sbp changes it
15:36:58 <deltab> MorbusIff: it's not particularly a solution to one particular problem
15:37:07 <MorbusIff> *** MorbusIff is now known as Morbus
15:37:25 <deltab> it's a new set of abilities
15:37:36 <Morbus> * Morbus nods.
15:37:42 <Morbus> i get excited about new features too.
15:37:46 <deltab> we won't reallyknow whats possible with them until we get them
15:37:58 <Morbus> yeah, but... I dunno.
15:38:11 <Morbus> my approach is: new feature, rocker. it'll be three years before everyone else has this.
15:38:18 <sbp> * sbp is wondering if they'll help him combine static information points
15:38:20 <Morbus> so, i'll wait three years before I care about integrating it into my workflow.
15:38:34 <Morbus> s/workflow/projects/
15:38:46 <deltab> sbp: what do you mean?
15:39:40 <sbp> deltab: my biggest problem at the moment is where to put all my static information, and what constitutes static information. it's a big problem because it's the most practically irritating one, e.g. from the point of finding files etc., though it'd be better if I wrote it up/demonstrated it to you
15:40:34 <sbp> part of the way I work at the moment is to have ~/stuff be my general working directory
15:40:58 <sbp> every month, I change it to YYYY-MM, and put it in an archive space, and have a brand new clean ~/stuff
15:41:28 <sbp> the intention is that these YYYY-MM folders then do not get changed--at all
15:41:32 <deltab> I do that, only every several months, and with a new disk partition :-)
15:41:54 <sbp> heh. I'd go insane--I put so much stuff in my working folder
15:41:56 <Morbus> so, what sort of static info are we talking about sbp?
15:42:03 <deltab> and daily directories
15:42:36 <sbp> well, the other kind of static information is a bit more subtle: it's stuff that you'd expect in /usr/share, expect it's mainly interesting stuff that I've downloaded, e.g. UnicodeData.txt, which may be used in various programs
15:42:53 <Morbus> i see.
15:43:04 <Morbus> i have a ~/Development/ folder for stuff that's "In Progress".
15:43:14 <Morbus> that has subdirs based on a hierarchal category sorta thing.
15:43:20 <sbp> I have ~/projects, and it contains many many sub folders
15:43:23 <Morbus> cos, that's what works for me. i love categorizing.
15:43:25 <sbp> each folder has a unique project name
15:43:28 <Morbus> same here
15:43:35 <sbp> they may be blended into a website later on
15:43:37 <Morbus> ~/Conquest is my primary root.
15:43:44 <sbp> but generally, projects don't get destroyed
15:43:46 <Morbus> ~/Conquest/Development, ~/Conquest/Disobey.com, etc.
15:43:50 <Morbus> ~/Conquest/Freelance, etc.
15:43:55 <sbp> hmm
15:43:57 <Morbus> ~/Conquest/Writing
15:44:02 <sbp> I use ~/ for that :-)
15:44:03 <Morbus> ~/Conquest/People I Know
15:44:20 <Morbus> sbp: I needed something a bit more segregated for backing up.
15:44:29 <Morbus> I have ~/Movies, ~/Downloads, ~/eBooks
15:44:33 <Morbus> those are not crucial backup opints.
15:44:38 <Morbus> which means i'd have to spend more time preparing a backup.
15:44:45 <Morbus> by slecting what i did and din't want, etc.
15:44:48 <sbp> can't you just have a sort of fstab equivalent for backing up?
15:44:53 <sbp> or a .ignore
15:44:57 <Morbus> too much effort.
15:45:01 <Morbus> too many moving parts.
15:45:18 <Morbus> Movies and Downloads have nothing to do with Writing and Disobey.com.
15:45:23 <Morbus> so why should they share the same location?
15:45:23 <sbp> well you're in effect doing the same thing except giving yourself more to type when you work on normal projects
15:45:29 <Morbus> Conquest fit into my thinking, as well as my needs.
15:45:40 <Morbus> not really. I don't type paths.
15:45:41 <sbp> the name is certainly fun :-)
15:45:45 <Morbus> when I need to, I drag and drop to the terminal ;)
15:45:52 <Morbus> and osx handles the conversion for me.
15:45:57 <deltab> what does your girlfriend think of it? :-)
15:46:02 <Morbus> i've done that maybe once the whole time i've used it.
15:46:07 <Morbus> my gf doesn't use the computers.
15:46:08 <sbp> hmm. I type them all the time, and it's annoying even with CDPATH
15:46:10 <Morbus> maybe 5 minutes a week.
15:47:31 <Morbus> ~/Development is where all my CVS dirs are.
15:47:41 <Morbus> generally, even when i do type paths, <tab> is your friend.
15:47:49 <sbp> ~/Conquest/Development, you mean
15:47:49 <Morbus> i've made efforts to make sure that paths are as unique as possible.
15:47:52 <sbp> ~/Conquest/Development, you mean
15:47:57 <Morbus> so i can usually type one letter, tab, and i'm off.
15:48:01 <sbp> argh. sorry
15:48:01 <Morbus> right
15:48:10 <sbp> computer froze. weird
15:48:20 <Morbus> ~/Development/LibDB
15:48:26 <Morbus> ~/Development/LibDB/Released
15:48:36 <Morbus> ~/Development/LibDB/LibDB (the actual cVS)
15:48:43 <Morbus> ~/Development/LibDB/Incoming
15:48:55 <Morbus> incomng is where i'd store specific snippets of "neat random stuff".
15:49:33 <sbp> are all your project folders arranged like this? with Released, projectname, Incoming, etc.?
15:49:39 <Morbus> pretty much, yes.
15:49:45 <sbp> hmm
15:49:49 <Morbus> but, i really only run two major software projects.
15:49:53 <Morbus> so, most don't have a Released.
15:50:00 <sbp> Amphy and LibDB...
15:50:04 <Morbus> right.
15:50:12 <redmonk> *** redmonk has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
15:50:13 <Morbus> my minor stuff is always public knowledge.
15:50:21 <Morbus> so ~/Conquest/Disobey.com/detergent/code/
15:50:29 <sbp> and you put all your web folders flat into the Conquest space?
15:50:36 <Morbus> as above, yeah.
15:50:39 <Morbus> but again, i only have three.
15:50:44 <sbp> oh. I have tons
15:50:50 <Morbus> ~/Conquest/disobey.com, Gamegrene.com, and TheHorrorSection.com
15:50:59 <Morbus> sbp: well, that's how i've handled my domains.
15:51:08 <Morbus> I want everyone to know that Disobey.com is related to my work.
15:51:09 <sbp> Aaron uses /web, but then doesn't even use domain names as subfolders, which bugs me
15:51:19 <Morbus> so most of my public is always under Disobey.com.
15:51:27 <Morbus> I squat domains for my project names, but I never set them up.
15:51:36 <sbp> heh, heh
15:51:36 <Morbus> as anything more than redirects to the disobey.com/subdir
15:51:45 <Morbus> ala ghostsites.com, amphetadesk.com, etc.
15:51:52 <sbp> right
15:52:10 <Morbus> just like emails, i'm not a fan of zillions of setup domains.
15:52:20 <Morbus> it just confuses ownership issues.
15:52:27 <Morbus> i want people to know that Ghost Sites is a disobey publication.
15:52:37 <Morbus> i want people to go "ahaha, Morbus released yet another site".
15:52:39 <Morbus> etc., etc.
15:52:42 <sbp> I should've done that, but I never found a server good enough
15:52:52 <sbp> so I ended up spreading things out all over everywhere
15:52:55 <Morbus> yeah, and i do everything on one webhost too ;)
15:53:06 <Morbus> with weekly rsync backups of dynamic data.
15:53:22 <Morbus> and monthly hard copies.
15:53:24 <sbp> pfft. and I have to faff about with nftp
15:53:41 <sbp> this if anything is the Morbus-sbp divide...
15:53:48 <Morbus> sbp: bring over your hard drive after school today.
15:53:52 <Morbus> i'll organize shit for ya.
15:53:53 <sbp> haha
15:54:04 <Morbus> i *love* organizing shit, i really do.
15:54:16 <sbp> I don't rsync because I like to work alongside what I'm doing publically privately
15:54:17 <Morbus> changing my video files from dynamic to manual last night was *hella* fun.
15:54:19 <Morbus> i loved it.
15:54:28 <Morbus> parse error.
15:54:29 <Morbus> what?
15:54:41 <Morbus> i rsync for backups only.
15:54:43 <sbp> move the privately to before alongside if that helps
15:54:48 <Morbus> and always server > dummy, never the other way.
15:54:50 <sbp> oh. how do you upload?
15:54:56 <Morbus> traditional ftp.
15:55:04 <Morbus> i also have mirror download ftp's setup.
15:55:04 <sbp> what program?
15:55:18 <Morbus> because I know that i may move hosts in the future, and they probably won't offer rsync.
15:55:27 <Morbus> rsync is a happy sideeffect of a new server, not a requirement.
15:55:37 <Morbus> sbp: transmit. os x only ;)
15:55:55 <Morbus> i only started the rsync in the past month.
15:55:58 <sbp> grumble. and you've lost me a bit with your rsync babble
15:56:04 <Morbus> and you know, i think they're broken due to the dsl.
15:56:08 <Morbus> since i'm no longer a local IP.
15:56:12 <Morbus> i'll find out tonight, actually.
15:56:16 <sbp> ha. DSL is evil!
15:56:28 <Morbus> in which case, no biggy, i'll just swap a crontab entry, and i'll be back to mirror ftp downloads.
15:56:33 <sbp> so your local directory for disobey.com and what's on the Web aren't actually in sync?
15:56:34 <Morbus> It's Not A Project.
15:56:50 <Morbus> sbp: they are to the week, yes.
15:56:57 <Morbus> the blog entry from yesterday is not in my local copy.
15:56:59 <Morbus> it will be tonight.
15:57:06 <Morbus> same with raw dumps of all my MySQL db's.
15:57:35 <sbp> good grief
15:57:39 <Morbus> what?
15:57:43 <Morbus> anythign i'm working on is in Development.
15:57:47 <sbp> I'm dizzyingly behind
15:57:48 <Morbus> when its finished, i ftp it to the server.
15:57:57 <Morbus> and it is removed from Development.
15:58:04 <Morbus> when the backup happens, my local copy is in sync.
15:58:06 <Morbus> (again)
15:58:21 <sbp> I mean, I'm behind what you're doing
15:58:26 <sbp> not understanding what you're doing
15:58:34 <Morbus> * Morbus nods.
15:58:37 <Morbus> you need a workflow.
15:58:38 <Morbus> ;)
15:58:47 <sbp> I have one, it just sucks
15:59:05 <Morbus> heh
15:59:49 <sbp> okay
15:59:55 <sbp> let's say that you create a file
15:59:59 <Morbus> what kind of file?
16:00:09 <sbp> echo ROFFLE > ~/Conquest/disobey.com/roffle.txt
16:00:26 <sbp> what exact steps do you go through using transmit to upload to disobey.com? what's the cost incurred?
16:00:46 <Morbus> i do it manually.
16:00:48 <Morbus> no automation.
16:00:59 <sbp> right. so what manual steps?
16:01:09 <Morbus> open transmit, pick a bookmark (which sets my home and remote dir), then drag and drop.
16:01:20 <sbp> I mean, it's not so manual that you write the binary out on your arm and walk to your server, etc., I hope...
16:01:30 <sbp> ah. visual
16:01:35 <Morbus> yup.
16:01:59 <sbp> I'd type "nftp disobey /roffle.txt" these days, but I used to do it visually
16:02:09 <sbp> hmm
16:02:26 <Morbus> sbp: well, that assumes i'd be in a terminal.
16:02:31 <Morbus> the only text editor i like is BBEdit.
16:02:38 <Morbus> which actually has integrated ftp, but I don't like it.
16:02:38 <sbp> you haven't always got a terminal open?
16:02:43 <Morbus> i always have a terminal open, yes.
16:02:47 <Morbus> but i rarely use it to create files.
16:03:17 <sbp> oh, well, you have to switch between BBedit and transmit anyway, right? so switching between BBedit and the terminal is no different
16:03:45 <deltab> I use rox to move and rename files, and not much else
16:03:47 <Morbus> i suppose, yes, though there's more errors in pathing to the right place then choosing a bookmark.
16:04:04 <Morbus> *** Morbus has left #swhack
16:04:08 <Morbus> *** Morbus (~morbus@morbus.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack
16:04:40 <sbp> this ROX?: http://rox.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/
16:05:02 <sbp> don't have to path with nftp
16:05:11 <sbp> do have to maintain a config file, though
16:05:16 <deltab> yes
16:05:19 <deltab> rox-filer
16:05:22 <Morbus> * Morbus nods.
16:05:25 <sbp> * sbp reads the roxor
16:05:57 <Morbus> sbp: you know, even if you did bring your HD over, I doubt I'd be able to set up a workflow for you
16:06:06 <sbp> Morbus: why not?
16:06:09 <Morbus> I'm too in lust with what OS X gives me that setting up a workflow anywhere else is scary.
16:06:22 <sbp> well, it's still *nixy
16:06:37 <sbp> unless you're massively relying on OS X only tools
16:06:47 <sbp> we are probably worlds apart, though
16:07:26 <Morbus> yeah, i do rely on os x tools.
16:07:35 <Morbus> i have just as many applescript shell utils as i do perl/bash.
16:10:24 <Morbus> i've actually been thinking of using DNN to resurrect this old project.
16:10:26 <Morbus> called "Ask Satan".
16:10:32 <Morbus> i used to write for fitshaced magazine.
16:10:33 <Morbus> i was satan.
16:10:37 <sbp> hmm. rox looks like just another file explorer application to me. stripped down konq or naut
16:10:42 <Morbus> and people could email satan and ask questions.
16:10:44 <Morbus> i kept 'em all.
16:10:47 <Morbus> this is from 97 and 98.
16:10:49 <Morbus> about 200 emails.
16:10:51 <sbp> heh!
16:10:53 <Morbus> funny shit.
16:11:05 <sbp> I knew it! <Morbus> i was satan.
16:11:12 <deltab> *** deltab has changed the topic to: Swhackflash: new king voted in by force majeure, kids in the streets rejoice || <Morbus> i was satan.
16:11:17 <sbp> hehehe
16:11:29 <Morbus> :)
16:11:45 <sbp> it all makes sense now
16:13:27 <Morbus> i started a new satanic mythos, really.
16:13:27 <Morbus> http://disobey.com/collected/morbus_iff/satan_repentant.shtml
16:13:31 <Morbus> that was my first one.
16:13:39 <Morbus> that was the gay ass second: http://disobey.com/collected/morbus_iff/why_santa_has_a_red_nose.shtml
16:13:47 <Morbus> and i've got a third written called Angel Hair Pasta.
16:13:51 <Morbus> which was never published.
16:14:16 <Morbus> probably cos it deals with angel menstrual cramps.
16:14:37 <Morbus> wow, this stuff sucks.
16:14:40 <Morbus> needs a hella rewrite.
16:15:35 <Morbus> i still have extensive notes on the mythos around here somewhere.
16:15:46 <Morbus> in ~/Conquest/DEvelopment/Ask Satan somewhere ;)
16:17:54 <Morbus> "Oh yeah, one last word: don't come to heaven. But be good."
16:17:55 <Morbus> heh, heh.
16:18:06 <sbp> heh
16:18:09 <sbp> I just read that
16:18:16 <Morbus> pretty crappy stuff.
16:18:26 <Morbus> i still remember someone of my old injokes though.
16:18:26 <sbp> some good lines
16:18:42 <sbp> yes, a couple of "huh?" moments too
16:18:49 <sbp> well, "huh? oh, a Morbus injoke"
16:19:02 <Morbus> heh
16:21:25 <Morbus> http://www.disobey.com/detergent/zines/chicos_groove/1998/cg980212.txt
16:21:38 <Morbus> EVIL RELIGIOUS PEOPLE THINGY STUFF: We'll include the mail in the next
16:21:38 <Morbus> issue if you want to read 'em, but in a nutshell, Disobey is being
16:21:38 <Morbus> attacked by religious zealots. Which is pretty damn funny. See, Morbus
16:21:38 <Morbus> writes an article for Fitshaced Magazine where Satan has gone to Heaven
16:21:38 <Morbus> because the balance between good and evil has been upset. The story is
16:21:39 <Morbus> involved enough as it is, but these zealots read the article, sent mail
16:21:41 <Morbus> to Satan (which bounces to my mailbox) to which I replied. They visited
16:21:43 <Morbus> Disobey, had collective gasps, and now are getting everyone in their
16:21:45 <Morbus> little "We Love God" group to annoy us. We've gotten massmails, spams,
16:21:47 <Morbus> and the prayer to help us "come around".
16:22:00 <Morbus> those were the good old days
16:22:25 <Morbus> sbp, you should read the old chico's grooves issues.
16:22:28 <Morbus> lots of fun stuff in there.
16:22:31 <Morbus> before i knew you.
16:22:57 <Morbus> lol!
16:22:57 <Morbus> http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2002-02-01.html
16:23:12 <Morbus> 20:24
16:23:33 <Morbus> 20:04: You know, maybe you should have stayed in #sbp after all. ;-)
16:24:30 <sbp> man. all that teaches me is that we're talking in endless loops
16:24:35 <Morbus> yeah. hard core.
16:24:39 <Morbus> we've had this conversation before.
16:24:41 <Morbus> carry on.
16:24:46 <sbp> heh, heh
16:24:51 <sbp> I think we have, actually
16:24:52 <sbp> oh shit
16:24:52 <Morbus> i evne mentioned the blog thing.
16:24:58 <Morbus> which i mentioned today.
16:25:02 <Morbus> you've' read them ebefroe.
16:25:05 <Morbus> but didn't remember them.
16:25:07 <Morbus> this is horrific.
16:25:08 <Morbus> <G.
16:25:12 <sbp> we've even talked about talking before before. what is becoming of us?!
16:25:19 <Morbus> ONE OF US. ONE OF US.
16:26:15 <sbp> HEMENWAY IS HERE! HEMENWAY IS COMING THROUGH!
16:26:27 <Morbus> sbp: one of the things I do to clean out my Development folder is "publish it".
16:26:35 <Morbus> i've got three issues of a zine i did called WebShit.
16:26:45 <Morbus> which was pretty bloggy before blogs.
16:26:51 <Morbus> even before i started dnn in 98.
16:27:09 <sbp> I keep it in there even when I've published it. not sure that's a good idea, though
16:27:09 <Morbus> and my evil thoughts issues.
16:27:09 <Morbus> which was a BBS zine I ran.
16:27:11 <Morbus> yeah, that's a duplicate.
16:27:16 <Morbus> i organize disobey like I would my hard drive.
16:27:22 <Morbus> so my local mirror is exactly like i want it.
16:27:31 <Morbus> so no need for dupes.
16:27:43 <Morbus> .g textfiles.org evil thoughts
16:27:44 <datum> textfiles.org evil thoughts: sorry, no results were found.
16:27:48 <Morbus> .g textfiles evil thoughts
16:27:49 <datum> textfiles evil thoughts: http://www.hoe.nu/textfiles1.html
16:27:58 <sbp> heh, hoe.nu. very you
16:28:08 <Morbus> yeah, i used to read hoe in the day.
16:28:17 <Morbus> it was a huge bbs zine. very popular. thousands of issues.
16:28:35 <Morbus> but not what i was looking for ;)
16:28:43 <sbp> no
16:29:51 <Morbus> huh, coulda swore he archived 'em.
16:30:44 <Morbus> he's got devilshat in here http://web.textfiles.com/ezines/
16:30:47 <Morbus> maybe that's what i was thinking of.
16:31:13 <sbp> .g inurl:textfiles.org evil thoughts
16:31:14 <datum> inurl:textfiles.org evil thoughts: sorry, no results were found.
16:31:20 <sbp> .g inurl:textfiles evil thoughts
16:31:21 <datum> inurl:textfiles evil thoughts: http://www.textfiles.com/magazines/FUCK/
16:31:26 <sbp> heh, heh
16:31:29 <Morbus> heh, fucked up college kids.
16:31:31 <Morbus> good read too.
16:31:45 <sbp> Q- What does F.U.C.K. stand for?
16:31:46 <sbp> A- F.U.C.K. stands for Fucked Up College Kids. They are primarily written
16:31:46 <sbp>  by people attending college classes.
16:33:12 <sbp> sigh. I'm gonna get like AaronSw at this rate, except without the genius
16:33:38 <Morbus> like AaronSW how?
16:34:32 <sbp> hehe: "How’s my joking? If you found this form parody funny, let us know." - http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/001087
16:34:33 <sbp> like AaronSw in "hello. I am depression"
16:34:41 <Morbus> aaron is depressed?
16:34:45 <Morbus> where have i been?
16:34:47 <sbp> well, no but...
16:34:53 <sbp> wait, there's a good example in the logs recently that shows exactly what I mean
16:34:58 <Morbus> i think i have adult add
16:35:08 <Morbus> * Morbus snickers.
16:36:14 <sbp> [[[
16:36:15 <sbp> 23:38:48 <AaronSw> You know what? I think I'm getting dumber. And I think these programs (like html2text) are the last gasps of genius before I succumb entirely to teenage idiocy.
16:36:15 <sbp> 23:38:56 <AaronSw> If that's the case, it was nice knowing all of you.
16:36:15 <sbp> 23:41:06 <AaronSw> That'd be a good name for a book:
16:36:15 <sbp> 23:41:10 <AaronSw> LAST GASPS OF GENIUS
16:36:16 <sbp> 23:41:17 <AaronSw> (before I succub entirely to teenage idiocy)
16:36:20 <sbp> ]]] - http://notabug.com/swhack/chatlogs/2004-03-09.html#T23-38-48
16:36:25 <sbp> quiet, swhacker
16:37:16 <sbp> the incredible shift from tech => law raised more than a few eyebrows
16:37:19 <Morbus> isn't that puberty?
16:37:23 <sbp> heh
16:37:23 <Morbus> i don't even know how old aaron is anymore.
16:37:26 <sbp> 17
16:37:26 <Morbus> my own son.
16:37:30 <sbp> hehehe
16:37:33 <Morbus> 17? holy shit, he's all grown up.
16:37:44 <Morbus> and me, i'm just a dried up dick licker.
16:37:53 <sbp> yeah
16:37:58 <sbp> I mean, aww, Morbus, you're not...
16:40:07 <sbp> hmm. I've only done one genius thing in months, and I only even found that out yesterday
16:41:02 <sbp> [philosophizations about defining genius]
16:41:11 <sbp> [ruminations on Morbus-nature]
16:41:20 <Morbus> ?
16:41:24 <sbp> [quest for the best flavour of cake]
16:41:28 <Morbus> mmm, cake.
16:41:42 <sbp> thought I'd interpolate boring stuff rather than including boring stuff
16:41:56 <Morbus> i'm sorry, but cake is not boring
16:42:01 <sbp> well, for the first one. ruminations on Morbus-nature would've been cool
16:42:05 <sbp> yeah, cake's cool too
16:44:07 <redmonk> *** redmonk (~steve@208.38.224.146) has joined #swhack
16:44:46 <sbp> deltab, what're you doing at the moment?
16:45:32 <deltab> being impressed by how much the naimation quality has improved in the new Scooby-Doo
16:45:35 <sbp> Aaron (and someone else, I forget who) came up with this idea to have propmts like the above at fifteen minute intervals, and then spew it out to a public log file, to keep up productivity
16:45:50 <sbp> there's a new Scooby-Doo? hmm, on now?
16:46:00 <Morbus> what about garfield?
16:46:02 <Morbus> * Morbus snickers.
16:46:22 <deltab> haven't seen that in years
16:46:27 <sbp> * sbp neither
16:46:38 <Morbus> no, there's a movie of it.
16:46:41 <Morbus> live action.
16:46:43 <Morbus> coming out here soon.
16:46:51 <sbp> a live action garfield?
16:46:56 <Morbus> yeah.
16:46:59 <Morbus> there's a trailer around.
16:47:42 <sbp> but it's not on http://disobey.com/detergent/lists/video_files so I'll assume you don't have it
16:48:01 <Morbus> actually, i've about 200 trailers that are not yet listed.
16:48:05 <Morbus> remember, that's only 20%.
16:48:08 <Morbus> but, no, i don't have it.
16:48:09 <Morbus> nor would i.
16:48:11 <Morbus> * Morbus shivers.
16:48:14 <sbp> oh right
16:48:57 <deltab> there are some richly textured backgrounds nowadays
16:49:54 <sbp> that reminds me of Cardinal Richelieu for some reason
16:50:41 <deltab> and some good glass effects
16:51:48 <sbp> * sbp wonders who's more interesting out of Cardinal Richelieu and Tycho Brahé
17:11:37 <sbp> you know, it's impossible to even know if you're achieving the things you aim for
17:11:54 <sbp> look at Van Gogh, or anyone not famous in their own lifetimes
17:12:17 <sbp> they sort of knew that what they were doing was out of the box, but because no one understood, they got dispirited. Van Gogh topped himself
17:12:50 <sbp> people like Korzybski probably won't be fully understood for hundreds of years
17:13:11 <sbp> Philosophers are still debating Plato and Aristotle as if their theories were postulated yesterday
17:14:13 <sbp> even the giants of all giants sometimes aren't really that great. most do one notable thing. does anyone here even *know* who invented the zip? what else he did? was it even a he?
17:15:08 <Morbus> i once storytold plato's allegory of a cave.
17:15:14 <Morbus> to my english class. only my teacher appreciated it.
17:15:17 <sbp> look at Hamming's article. he goes on and on about what you have to do to be a great scientist. and it's a really good piece, but what did he do? he wrote about it
17:15:51 <verbosus> *** verbosus (~verbosus@62.94.182.134) has joined #swhack
17:15:56 <sbp> my English classes were insane
17:16:07 <sbp> just utterly insane
17:16:31 <verbosus> I used to love English classes
17:16:42 <verbosus> both at the high school and at the Uni
17:21:12 <redmonk> hence the nick "verbosus"
17:21:17 <redmonk> hehe
17:22:31 <verbosus> hahaha
17:33:39 <Ash> HELO
17:34:57 <thelsdj> *** thelsdj (~adam@24.117.41.110) has joined #swhack
18:30:22 <Morbus> * Morbus returns.
18:31:49 <sbp> hey Morbus
18:31:56 <sbp> U HAVE EMAIL. ROFFAL
18:32:17 <sbp> and yo Ash, redmonk, verbosus, and thelsdj if you're still around
18:36:15 <Morbus> who's william?
18:36:23 <sbp> William Loughborough? WL?
18:36:27 <Morbus> yeah.
18:36:37 <sbp> you don't know who WL is? surely Aaron and I have mentioned him billions of times here? hmm
18:36:43 <Morbus> he got a nick?
18:37:03 <sbp> nope, well, only WL. he co-founded SWAG with Aaron and Seth and I, and he got me into W3C WAI etc.
18:37:11 <Morbus> huh.
18:37:14 <Morbus> i've never heard of him.
18:37:20 <sbp> that's very strange indeed
18:37:23 <Morbus> i thought i knew everyone.
18:37:24 <Morbus> <g>
18:37:32 <sbp> * sbp thought you did too!
18:38:10 <verbosus> hey sbp
18:38:21 <verbosus> what does svg-logger_1 do?
18:38:29 <sbp> logs
18:38:43 <sbp> heh. it's Jim's bot; not sure if the output goes to his site
18:39:17 <sbp> oh, it does. neat: http://svg.jibbering.com/swhack/2004-03-11.txt
18:39:28 <sbp> backup
18:39:55 <sbp> it's keeping all the other bots company
18:40:30 <Morbus> phone
18:41:16 <sbp> * sbp goes through his spam meanwhile
18:41:48 <verbosus> * verbosus installs RDFLib
18:43:47 <Morbus> how deeply do you want me to get into libdb history?
18:43:52 <Morbus> besides the little announcement on dnn?
18:44:11 <sbp> as much or as little as you like
18:44:21 <Morbus> ok. go read the thing on dnn.
18:44:22 <Morbus> <g>
18:44:24 <sbp> same with all the questions. you can answer the others too
18:44:25 <sbp> hehheh
18:48:57 <verbosus> sbp: do you know what “contexts” are in RDFlib?
18:49:19 <sbp> I would assume that they're what everybody else calls "models
18:49:20 <verbosus> add(triple, context)
18:49:20 <sbp> "
18:49:25 <sbp> or "graphs"
18:49:27 <sbp> or "formulae"
18:49:45 <verbosus> ah, right
18:49:47 <sbp> right. so a context can hold other contexts
18:50:00 <verbosus> so in this case they are omitted because the function is called as a method of the object
18:50:02 <verbosus> store.add((donna, TYPE, FOAF["Person"]))
18:50:25 <verbosus> is the same as add((donna, TYPE, FOAF["Person"]), store)
18:50:37 <sbp> makes sense
18:50:43 <sbp> that adds it to the root context
18:51:31 <verbosus> right, so as far as I’m seeing, the only way to query RDFlib for something is to feed it with a triple with a missing value
18:51:58 <sbp> yeah
18:52:24 <sbp> for anything practical, use pyrple
18:52:26 <sbp> * sbp ducks
18:52:28 <verbosus> heh
18:52:29 <sbp> actually, use redland
18:52:53 <Morbus> * Morbus begins to respond
18:52:55 <Morbus> muhah.
18:52:59 <sbp> uh oh
18:53:56 <Morbus> nothing too exciting.
18:54:18 <verbosus> what’s the query mechanism in Redland? RDQL?
18:58:28 <Morbus> boring email on the way.
19:00:13 <sbp> verbosus: I think, but it's quite new
19:00:22 <sbp> * sbp cheX0rs the spam
19:00:35 <verbosus> one is now building Redland
19:02:18 <redmonk> *** redmonk has quit ("User disconnected")
19:02:36 <Morbus> am i spam?
19:02:47 <Morbus> .g "i put the demon back in codemonkey"
19:02:49 <datum> "i put the demon back in codemonkey": http://groups.yahoo.com/group/opml-dev/message/222
19:02:50 <Morbus> google lock!
19:02:57 <Morbus> check out all the matches. all me.
19:02:59 <Morbus> sig spam rules.
19:03:30 <Morbus> i got a lock on "notice how he deftly sidesteps the panty issue" <g>
19:03:36 <sbp> you got whitelisted out; whee!
19:03:38 <sbp> heh!
19:04:17 <Morbus> aw, no where for "now in fun bath toy"
19:04:32 <Morbus> if you quote it, i've a lock.
19:04:36 <Morbus> * Morbus snickers.
19:05:00 <Morbus> man, people can stalk me just by sig searching.
19:05:03 <Morbus> that rules.
19:09:38 <Morbus> so, you got my email?
19:11:07 <sbp> just replied
19:11:25 <sbp> wow, nothing for the fun bath toy one? I'm quite surprised
19:11:43 <Morbus> LaTeX? i don't get it.
19:12:02 <redmonk> *** redmonk (~steve@208.38.224.146) has joined #swhack
19:12:06 <Morbus> potshots aren't fair if I don't get them! <g>
19:12:12 <Morbus> oh, shit, monk's back.
19:12:20 <Morbus> so, uh, how's your american apple pie, sbp?
19:12:28 <sbp> hehehe. okay, I'll explain
19:12:43 <redmonk> ;)
19:12:45 <sbp> LaTeX was invented by Knuth and... wait, I'll find a webpage that can explain it better
19:13:08 <Morbus> do you, seriously, see LibDB as a reinvention of the wheel?
19:13:22 <sbp> not at all. check it out:
19:13:23 <sbp> "Its creator, Donald Knuth, was not originally aiming to create a typesetting language. Rather, he wanted to write a book on computer programming, but wanted higher quality typesetting than was available with the text processing language-of-choice in 1977, troff. He was determined enough to remedy his problems that he began to develop his own macro language and his own fonts." - http://www.earlham.edu/~thompsk/final_project/latex/node4.html
19:13:26 <Morbus> or, rather, of "a" whell.
19:13:30 <Morbus> fucking keyboard.
19:13:43 <sbp> sure. blame the keyboard. heh, heh
19:13:44 <Morbus> ah.
19:13:53 <Morbus> so, wait, was that a compliment, then? <g.
19:13:57 <sbp> yep
19:14:00 <Morbus> weirdo.
19:14:04 <sbp> heh, heh
19:14:04 <Morbus> so, you should help me out on libdb.
19:14:12 <Morbus> we've had this discussion too <g>
19:14:12 <sbp> well, I can add "fuck you" if it'll help?
19:14:24 <sbp> I know. I've been trying on and off to get it installed
19:14:36 <sbp> my current thinking is that I'll just upload all the stuff to sbp.f2o.org
19:14:42 <Morbus> that should work.
19:14:45 <Morbus> sal got it working on f2o.
19:14:45 <sbp> which has perl and MySQL and whatnot, all the latest versions
19:14:46 <Morbus> :)
19:14:49 <sbp> aha
19:14:55 <Morbus> and i know dan <g>
19:14:59 <Morbus> you're in good hands ;)
19:15:02 <sbp> djc? heh. yeah
19:15:26 <sbp> well I know him marginally too, but not bed buddies or anything like you probably are
19:15:30 <Morbus> actually, hey, i got a bug you can fix! ;)
19:15:34 <sbp> ooh
19:15:46 <Morbus> just came in yesterday. nice guy installed the code-that-yet-exists yesterday.
19:15:57 <Morbus> and he found a bug! ;)
19:16:22 <sbp> what was and is the bug, but hopefully will not be the bug soonish?
19:16:34 <verbosus> *** verbosus has left #swhack
19:16:38 <Morbus> during installation, i check a MANIFEST for missing files and report them to the user.
19:16:59 <JibberJim> *** JibberJim (JimLey@dsl-217-155-144-135.zen.co.uk) has joined #swhack
19:17:03 <sbp> do you completely exit if it can't find one?
19:17:04 <sbp> hey Jim
19:17:16 <AaronSw> i don't see the libdb-latex connection
19:17:17 <Morbus> if, however, the user moves the media_files/ directory (because, say, they're under a cgi-bin), the check erroneously reports they're missing (which is actually true, but the warning should say "oh, you moved your media files dir - you can probably safely ignore these warnings")
19:17:23 <Morbus> no, not completely exit.
19:17:26 <AaronSw> monk's back?
19:17:29 <AaronSw> oh, redmonk
19:17:33 <Morbus> its technically, only a warning. the user could ignore it and move on.
19:17:34 <Morbus> which is what he did.
19:18:15 <Morbus> http://disobey.com/noos/LibDB/dev/installer.cgi?tmpl=ensure_integrity&user_mediaurl=
19:18:19 <sbp> AaronSw: Knuth wrote TeX because he was such a perfectionist; he spent ten or so years on it. Morbus is writing LibDB because he's such a perfectionist. he's going to spend ten years on it :-)
19:18:33 <Morbus> that's just like the error he got, only it reported only on media_files, which were no longer in the root.
19:18:46 <AaronSw> Knuth was a bad perfectionist though. They're still finding bugs in TeX
19:18:51 <AaronSw> I mean, if djb had written it...
19:18:56 <Morbus> SO IT WAS A POTSHOT!
19:18:58 <Morbus> damn you sbp! <g>
19:19:09 <sbp> I didn't say that Morbus was a good perfectionist. and damn, he's ratted me out!
19:19:14 <sbp> heh, heh
19:19:52 <sbp> Morbus: so the bug is that it doesn't say "well, actually, screw this warning"?
19:20:06 <Morbus> sorta, yeah.
19:20:11 <Morbus> there are a couple of differnet ways it could be handled.
19:20:17 <Morbus> i could remove those files from the manifest entirely.
19:20:31 <Morbus> i could keep them in the mani, and skip those specific warnings in the display.
19:20:57 <Morbus> but, i think the best thing would be to a) chceck if media_url is defined, b) if it is, add a cautionary "it's ok" statement to a manifest failure that contains media_file entries.
19:21:01 <sbp> I'd provide a mini-warning, unless the great majority of users will be moving the directory
19:21:10 <Morbus> i'd say about 50%.
19:21:21 <Morbus> most endusers will run libdb under a cgi-bin, i suspect.
19:21:26 <Morbus> in which case, media_files would have to move.
19:22:02 <sbp> what's "media_url"?
19:22:11 <Morbus> http://disobey.com/noos/LibDB/dev/installer.cgi
19:22:25 <Morbus> the full URL to the web-accessible media_files directory, as defined on the first page of the installer, if needed.
19:22:37 <sbp> aha
19:23:01 <sbp> yeah, that makes most sense
19:23:09 <Morbus> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/*checkout*/libdb/LibDB/lib/LibDB/Settings.pm?content-type=text%2Fplain&rev=1.23
19:23:19 <Morbus> see also that file, which lists all the possible settings that LibDB users, and an explanation ;)
19:23:29 <sbp> heh. that future copyright just cracks me up
19:23:36 <Morbus> :)
19:23:47 <Morbus> i should move it up to 2014.
19:23:49 <Morbus> <g.
19:24:39 <tav> heh
19:25:02 <sbp> pret? ty casc? ade?
19:25:40 <sbp> you only added those comments so that block would be filled out to the right, didn't you?
19:26:14 <tav> the things one does for a pretty cascade
19:27:01 <Morbus> sbp: damn straight :)
19:27:10 <Morbus> man, i don't even remember where that is.
19:27:14 <Morbus> but when i find it, i'll think of you and chuckle.
19:27:18 <Morbus> * Morbus hugs his code.
19:27:22 <sbp> hehheh
19:27:28 <Morbus> oh, ther eit is.
19:27:40 <Morbus> yeah, so the bug is right below that.
19:27:42 <Morbus> in check_integrity ;)
19:28:04 <sbp> this is still just the most hillarious code comment ever, though: "man alive, I have to pee. must... continue... coding!"
19:28:09 <Morbus> :D
19:28:42 <Morbus> hey tav!
19:29:50 <sbp> okay, I see the relevant bit
19:30:24 <JibberJim> Don't you have the thinkgeek colostemy bag then sbp?
19:32:01 <AaronSw> Hm, I just calculated that I apparently have paid $1700 a month in overage charges. I wonder how that gets paid for.
19:32:26 <JibberJim> you're overage AaronSw? surely not?
19:34:28 <AaronSw> Hm, and I don't have an email address or phone number on my account. this is a recipe for disaster
19:34:59 <tav> "overage" ? bandwidth ?
19:35:12 <AaronSw> yeah
19:35:19 <tav> ouch
19:35:50 <Morbus> you're full of ovaries?
19:36:07 <sbp> okay, I'm done. here's your patch
19:36:08 <sbp> [[[
19:36:08 <sbp> 290c290
19:36:08 <AaronSw> Well, on the one hand, _I_ obviously haven't been paying for it and my server still works, so I'm not too worried.
19:36:10 <sbp> <   if (scalar @$missing > 0) { # show the user any missing files.
19:36:12 <sbp> ---
19:36:14 <sbp> >   if ((scalar @$missing > 0) && (user_mediaurl ne "media_files/")) {
19:36:15 <Morbus> ack, not in the chat you fool <g>
19:36:16 <sbp> 295a296,299
19:36:18 <sbp> >   elsif (user_mediaurl eq "video_porn_collection/") {
19:36:20 <sbp> >     my $note = "<Morbus> Hi self, old mate, old buddy! <G>";
19:36:22 <sbp> >     push(@notes, { type => 'err', text => $note });
19:36:24 <sbp> >   }
19:36:26 <Morbus> lol.
19:36:26 <sbp> ]]]
19:36:45 <sbp> * sbp chuckles
19:37:28 <Morbus> anyways, i don't think that patch would work too perfectly.
19:37:42 <AaronSw> But, on the other hand, having a $25,000 charge hanging over my servers doesn't seem like such a good idea.
19:38:04 <sbp> * sbp didn't think he quite grokked it
19:38:19 <Ash> lalala
19:38:26 <Ash> jibba jabba
19:38:33 <sbp> * sbp raises his eyebrow at Aaron
19:38:48 <AaronSw> you think a $25K charge is a good idea?
19:39:18 <sbp> I'm wondering how you didn't notice all this before, and whether any day now there's going to be no more AaronSw domains on the Web :-)
19:39:34 <AaronSw> well, obviously it's not too serious since it's been going on for years
19:39:52 <Morbus> so, uh, this should not be a good time to ask you about the hosting of libdb.com?
19:39:56 <Morbus> ;)
19:40:08 <Morbus> i use too many smileys.
19:40:11 <Morbus> i'm just gonna be dour from now on.
19:40:39 <AaronSw> no, i'd be happy to host it
19:41:01 <AaronSw> honestly, i'm not real concerned about this -- i just thought it was funny
19:41:05 <sbp> <AaronSw> but you'll have to pay the $10,000 overage fees it accrues per year
19:41:12 <Morbus> how much do you pay for your domains?
19:41:17 <Morbus> and where do you get the monkey?
19:41:23 <Morbus> lol.
19:41:25 <Morbus> the money.
19:41:34 <Morbus> wow, my fingers just naturally type monkey, even on the correction.
19:41:37 <Morbus> i love my fingers.
19:41:38 <AaronSw> heh. to ICANN? i pay $9 at gandi.net
19:41:44 <Morbus> no, no, i meant hosting. sorry.
19:41:50 <AaronSw> oh, I don
19:41:52 <AaronSw> 't pay anything
19:41:58 <Morbus> then what's the money concerna bout?
19:42:21 <JibberJim> but if you can get a monkey AaronSw, you could probably rent it out to Morbus for perverted practices, and not have to worry at all about the money.
19:42:38 <AaronSw> well, I've gone $25K over my pay-nothing contract
19:42:38 <Morbus> mmmm, monkey enema's.
19:42:42 <Morbus> the best kind of enema.
19:42:49 <Morbus> ah, i see.
19:42:54 <Morbus> so you've got credit up to a certain amount.
19:43:00 <sbp> * sbp sits back and chuckles
19:43:37 <JibberJim> sit up straight young man! don't slouch like that!
19:44:00 <sbp> heh. yeah, I got that a lot
19:44:05 <sbp> actually
19:44:10 <sbp> "Sean, take your coat off"
19:44:14 <sbp> that's the thing I heard the most
19:44:27 <AaronSw> ooh: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/hackpaint/
19:44:37 <JibberJim> you should've stayed away from this Sean bloke then... it sounds right weird.
19:44:51 <Morbus> now that's interesting.
19:44:54 <sbp> ooh, cool
19:45:15 <AaronSw> wow, I had no idea he went to RISD. "In addition to his PhD in Computer Science from Harvard, Graham also studied painting at the Rhode Island School of Design and the Accademia di Belle Arti in Florence. "
19:46:30 <sbp> * sbp notices Jim's line, smiles
19:46:53 <AaronSw> and presumably the Belle Arti is even more prestigeous
19:47:07 <tav> * tav wonders about meeting this Sean bloke
19:47:28 <JibberJim> don't ask me, he seems to be someone sbp hangs around with
19:47:41 <sbp> only at school, apparently
19:48:32 <AaronSw> argh, now you've got me singing "you can leave your hat on"
19:48:57 <sbp> hip hip hip hooray
19:49:02 <AaronSw> Joe Cocker must die!
19:49:22 <sbp> hmm. lots of people don't like Joe Cocker. what's up with that?
19:49:31 <JibberJim> the sun has got his hat on and he's coming out to play!
19:49:32 <AaronSw> he's a mass murderer!
19:49:43 <sbp> heh, that's the one
19:49:55 <JibberJim> it's not politically correct sbp - Joe MaleMemberer
19:50:02 <sbp> haha
19:50:23 <deelan> *** deelan (~Benny@host50-111.pool8016.interbusiness.it) has joined #swhack
19:50:46 <sbp> hmm. remalememberulous
19:51:09 <sbp> now that's a neologism...
19:51:34 <sbp> (cf. earlier, up that way ^, to where evangineer and I were chatting)
19:52:23 <AaronSw> OK, this Acquisition thing is weird. First it's telling me to sign a contract promising not to use it for any illegal purposes, then it says in big letters "Be socially conscious! Support _people_, not corporations."
19:52:45 <sbp> what are you acquiring?
19:53:07 <sbp> a corporation?
19:53:14 <Morbus> acquisition.
19:53:18 <Morbus> as flaky as limewire.
19:53:21 <Morbus> just use limewire.
19:53:23 <AaronSw> huh? it's great.
19:53:28 <Morbus> i use it.
19:53:32 <AaronSw> Acquisition is one of th emost beautiful programs ever
19:53:32 <Morbus> but if you're upset about the license...
19:53:37 <Morbus> i disagree.
19:53:39 <AaronSw> and i've never found it flaky
19:53:49 <Morbus> but i'd have to be using it to remember why I do.
19:53:52 <Morbus> ask me again tonight.
19:53:57 <sbp> . o O { flippin' Mac thing again... }
19:54:16 <sbp> ah, no
19:54:19 <sbp> Gnutella?
19:54:24 <sbp> why have not I been told about this?!
19:54:25 <Morbus> aaronsw: well, i think one thing i can remember: in your queue, right click and say "retry" or some such.
19:54:33 <Morbus> no visual stimuli that they're retrying.
19:54:41 <Morbus> i think i remembered that right.
19:54:42 <sbp> oh no I was right
19:54:43 <sbp> "Acquisition requires Mac OS X 10.2 Jaguar"
19:54:55 <AaronSw> that's true, but that's so minor
19:55:14 <Ash> Mock OS
19:55:32 <sbp> the Acquisition bone's connected to the [bomp] OS X bone. the OS X bone's connected to the [bomp] Mac bone. the Mac bone's connected to the [bomp] money bone...
19:55:53 <AaronSw> I wonder how much it costs for me to mail sbp a computer
19:56:00 <sbp> Mock O'er Sex
19:56:06 <sbp> probably assloads
19:56:11 <AaronSw> not that i'd do something so irresponsible
19:56:16 <AaronSw> :-)
19:56:23 <sbp> right. more money than the earth and moon combined
19:56:42 <AaronSw> no, i just don't want to be held liable for the illegal acts which you use it for :)
19:56:52 <Morbus> heh, heh.
19:56:56 <JibberJim> Why do you want to send sbp a computer?
19:56:56 <AaronSw> sorry, i'm still upset about this absurd contract
19:57:02 <Morbus> for acqusition?
19:57:08 <sbp> moi? [innocent hands on chest look, cheeky grin, little whistle]
19:57:13 <Morbus> the user license?
19:58:48 <sbp> the license bone's connected to the [bomp] piracy bone. the piracy bone's connected to the [bomp] Jack Valenti bone. the Jack Valenti bone's connected to the [bomp] prison bone. the prison bone's connected to the [bomp] shower bone bone. the shower bone bone's connected to the [bomp] Morbus
19:58:56 <AaronSw> "By installing, downloading, copying, or otherwise using the software, you acknowledge that you have read these terms and conditions, understand them, and agree to be bound by them. [...] You may not use the software for any purpose that is unlawful or prohibited by this license agreement, or to solicit the performance of any illegal activity or other activity which infringes the rights of the authors or others."
19:59:23 <Morbus> aaronsw, you really think you're that important now to be closely scrutinized for your use of acquisition?
19:59:32 <Morbus> or are you morally taking everything literally now?
19:59:42 <JibberJim> .wn bomp
19:59:42 <datum> Sorry, I couldn't find bomp in WordNet.
19:59:50 <sbp> real hackers don't read documentation
19:59:55 <sbp> .gc bomp
19:59:56 <AaronSw> I take signing contracts seriously!
19:59:57 <xena> bomp: 228,000
20:00:03 <AaronSw> I refuse to use nonbeta versions of NetNewsWire because of it.
20:00:28 <Morbus> so, the acquisiton guy is gonna come and sue you?
20:00:35 <AaronSw> I'm not going to bug him about it, but I'm pretty sure he's also violating the GPL.
20:00:46 <Morbus> i bet he probably is.
20:01:06 <Morbus> but seriously, 99% of people who use that program use it to leech illegally distributed crap.
20:01:10 <AaronSw> he claims to be "In full and total compliance"
20:01:11 <Morbus> its like honor in a bed of theives.
20:01:22 <AaronSw> yeah, but it's absurd to put that term in there
20:01:25 <AaronSw> it's rude.
20:01:31 <Morbus> what term?
20:01:36 <sbp> <AaronSw> I did not break the law
20:01:36 <AaronSw> the no illegal usage term
20:01:43 <sbp> <AaronSw> these are not the bots you are looking for
20:02:08 <Morbus> so, you're upset not that you'd use his program illegally, but because he;s covering his own ass (pfff) when riaa comes and sues him for creating it?
20:02:15 <Morbus> or, because he's calling you a thief?
20:02:50 <AaronSw> no, i mean I'm using his program illegaly. I'm upset because he's trying to get me to agree to a pointless and uneforcable license for no reason
20:03:04 <Morbus> * Morbus scratches head.
20:03:06 <Morbus> alright.
20:03:15 <Morbus> i get more upset over spilt milk than other people's idiocy.
20:03:17 <AaronSw> it's just rude, it's as if I send you a package, but on the tape it said "by opening this box you agree to send aaron your first born son"
20:03:32 <Morbus> well, you should know i can't do that. he's already taken.
20:03:35 <Morbus> or will be, at least.
20:03:42 <AaronSw> thus the rudeness!
20:03:56 <Morbus> see, i don't take it as rudeness as all.
20:04:05 <Morbus> because everyone knows what acq is used for.
20:04:15 <Morbus> you have to be some grateful dead hippie to use it for any other reason.
20:04:28 <Morbus> he's just pathetically attempting to cover his own ass.
20:04:39 <JibberJim> rats, Sorry little Tommy, but you've got to go live with Aaron now, I knew shouldn't've opened the box... 
20:04:49 <AaronSw> But he's not doing a good job -- what he's doing isn't illegal and this doesn't make it any less illegal
20:04:52 <JibberJim> Can you pick him up from the airport Aaron?
20:05:06 <Morbus> JibberJim: it'd be funny if he sent, like, a box of paper shavings instead of the real thing I asked for.
20:05:10 <AaronSw> Sidenote: I just recently realized that in the famous picture of Seth David Schoen, he's holding a letter he sent to the editor of Wired Magazine about shrinkwrap licenses that says "By opening this letter you agree to print it" (except in more legaleze)
20:05:12 <Morbus> that'd be a good one. he'd have tricked me good.
20:05:20 <sbp> you can keep your son or you can risk it all for... what's in the box!
20:05:30 <Morbus> AaronSw: so why are you getting upset about it? just email him, tell him he's an idiot.
20:05:34 <Morbus> don't let it upset you.
20:05:36 <AaronSw> UHF quote: "nothing! absolutely nothing!"
20:05:54 <sbp> Aaron: ha. is there a copy of that online? I could do with it
20:06:01 <Morbus> AaronSw: heh!
20:06:24 <AaronSw> of UHF? we probably have the DVD around here somewhere...
20:06:37 <sbp> of Seth's letter
20:07:27 <AaronSw> oh, yeah, you can see it in the photo: http://vitanuova.loyalty.org/envelope.jpeg
20:08:22 <sbp> ah. I think I can make it out...
20:08:31 <AaronSw> "NOTICE NOTICE NOTICE<br /> <strong>THIS IS A LEGAL AGREEMENT</strong> between you and the Electronic Frontier Foundation, 454 Shotwell Street, San Francisco, CA 9411?. <strong>By opening this envelope, you agree to print the contents of the enclosed letter in Wired 9.11, or, at your option, any later magazine."
20:08:34 <AaronSw> (got it, sbp)
20:10:36 <Morbus> so, did it get printed?
20:10:50 <sbp> ha, thank you
20:10:53 <Morbus> i'm six months behind on all my magazines.
20:10:54 <AaronSw> i don't know. also, did it get opened?
20:10:55 <sbp> I was just typing it up myself
20:11:01 <sbp> couldn't make out bits of it
20:11:25 <AaronSw> it's online, and i think i have a copy, i'll look
20:11:43 <Morbus> i know i have a copy of that ish, i'm just four blocks away :(
20:11:57 <sbp> ish?
20:12:09 <AaronSw> here are the letters: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.11/rants.html
20:12:29 <AaronSw> he did himself in by saying "any later magazine", though -- they can just put it off indefinitely until they stop publishing
20:13:16 <sbp> yeah
20:13:48 <Morbus> well, they don't even have to do it then.
20:13:57 <Morbus> "any later magazine [of Wired]" can not be implied.
20:14:24 <Morbus> right?
20:14:34 <sbp> it's "the enclosed letter in [Wired] [9.11, or, at your option, any later magazine]", not "the enclosed letter in [Wired 9.11], or, at your option, [any later magazine]"
20:14:35 <AaronSw> hm, good point
20:14:44 <sbp> no, not a good point. see above
20:15:47 <Morbus> still confusing though.
20:15:54 <AaronSw> i don't think you can read it that way -- he should have said issue if that was the case.
20:15:58 <Morbus> a magazine is a singular entity. an issue is an instance of the magazine.
20:16:04 <sbp> he should've added a colon after "Wired"
20:16:05 <Morbus> if he said "any later issue", that'd work, I think.
20:16:14 <Morbus> aaron, jinx.
20:16:34 <sbp> okay, so if I throw a copy of Wired 9.11 at you
20:16:47 <AaronSw> but even then they could say they planned to restart Wired someday and would print it then
20:16:47 <sbp> and you said "why did you throw that magazine at me?"
20:16:58 <sbp> would you accept my answer of "I didn't throw a magazine"? :-)
20:17:09 <AaronSw> it's not a legal contract.
20:17:37 <sbp> if I wrote it down and got my solicitor to send it to you...
20:17:45 <sbp> and if it was all part of some bizarre contract agreement
20:17:54 <AaronSw> http://www.aaronsw.com/2002/letterSethDavidSchoen
20:18:09 <AaronSw> in context, it doesn't make sense Sean.
20:18:15 <AaronSw> I should know, I'm a native speaker of English
20:18:23 <AaronSw> i mean, American
20:18:27 <sbp> haha. "Conclusion: EFF lawyers are bad at being evil."
20:18:30 <AaronSw> notice how all the native speakers here agree
20:18:38 <Morbus> heh, heh.
20:18:41 <sbp> right, I agree with myself
20:19:27 <sbp> then again, native English is PIE really
20:19:33 <Morbus> i like cake.
20:19:34 <sbp> and native American is Navajo etc.
20:19:38 <AaronSw> this is actually one in a series: http://www.aaronsw.com/2002/floatingSethDavidSchoen http://www.aaronsw.com/2002/classicSethDavidSchoen
20:19:53 <JibberJim> What sort of PIE, steak and kidney?
20:20:14 <sbp> ah, Aaron. you're quite spooky
20:20:23 <sbp> mmm... British pie...
20:20:54 <sbp> heh, is he at some kind of Microsoft conference in the latter?
20:21:00 <AaronSw> linux revolt
20:21:20 <sbp> oh, that doesn't count then
20:21:24 <sbp> glad he got his hair cut, though
20:21:32 <Morbus> i kinda like the rough man myself.
20:21:33 <AaronSw> why am _I_ spooky?
20:21:35 <Morbus> rOOWR!
20:21:43 <sbp> the ASCII head thing, mainly
20:21:54 <AaronSw> actually, that was by Nick Moffit
20:22:02 <AaronSw> I should give him credit
20:22:05 <sbp> yeah
20:22:08 <Morbus> give him debit.
20:22:11 <deelan> *** deelan has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.35 [Mozilla rv:1.5/20031007]")
20:22:11 <Morbus> that'd be way funnier.
20:22:29 <Morbus> "dude, you owe me money. i put your ascii art online. you owe me bandiwdth bills"
20:22:41 <Morbus> "by reading this email, you agree to pay me".
20:22:43 <Morbus> "ahahahahahaha"
20:23:01 <sbp> "HELLO I AARON< YOU ON MY WEBSITE< I GIVE YOU MY MASTURCARD NUMER< MORBUS' THING IS FUNNIER SO I STOP MINE NOW"
20:23:20 <Morbus> heh. good save ;)
20:24:05 <Morbus> sigh. two more hours.
20:24:19 <sbp> until the pizza man comes? what?
20:24:26 <sbp> or pizza lady, knowing you
20:24:31 <Morbus> until i go home and send tav more files.
20:24:34 <Morbus> i mean. uh.
20:24:36 <sbp> ahh
20:24:51 <Morbus> mmm, nekkid pizza lady.
20:24:54 <Morbus> i actually had a video fo that around here.
20:25:10 <Morbus> chinese pizza delivery guy, nekkid chick answers the door, and the hilarity that ensues.
20:25:27 <sbp> ah, well. that's not really a nekkid pizza lady then
20:25:31 <Morbus> i think it was over on ifilm somewhere.
20:25:45 <JibberJim> er, once she paid for the pizza she was a pizza lady surely?
20:26:02 <Morbus> actually, she never did.
20:26:07 <sbp> hehheh
20:26:08 <Morbus> cos, you know, she had no place to put the money.
20:26:15 <Morbus> she wanted to trade feelies, i think.
20:26:17 <JibberJim> Even in terms of services rendered?
20:27:25 <sbp> answer the question, young man
20:27:54 <Morbus> she wanted to trade feelies, i think.
20:27:54 <AaronSw> TGS quote: "teacher called me young man!"
20:28:07 <Morbus> you want me to give away the punchline to the movie?
20:28:09 <Morbus> fine!
20:28:18 <Morbus> so, the chinese guy is all "no, no, no. oh hoh hoh ho, no no".
20:28:22 <Morbus> so she goes into the other room to get her purse.
20:28:26 <Morbus> and out comes her husband, also nekkid.
20:28:33 <Morbus> "no, no, no, oh hoh hoh ohoh, no, no"
20:28:34 <Morbus> video ends.
20:28:39 <Morbus> happy!?
20:28:43 <sbp> hehheh
20:28:45 <sbp> thanks!
20:29:10 <JibberJim> Hmm, no you missed the directors cut, when her labrador comes out naked, and he's all "oh yeah!"
20:29:17 <sbp> ha
20:29:48 <Morbus> heh, heh.
20:29:59 <Morbus> or the unrated version sold only in france.
20:30:08 <Morbus> with an outtake of a horny lab and an all too willing wife.
20:30:56 <sbp> (the joke there, to anyone reading the logs, is that Jim is joking whilst Morbus is describing an actual movie that he's watched dozens of hundreds of times)
20:31:16 <Morbus> and has since sent to tav.
20:31:21 <sbp> heh, heh
20:31:54 <Morbus> alright, i need events that occurred in a movie.
20:31:58 <Morbus> proper events.
20:32:01 <sbp> see above
20:32:06 <sbp> labrador-human sex
20:32:11 <sbp> pizza delivery
20:32:12 <AaronSw> ooh, a new one: "you can't be popular AND smart"
20:32:52 <sbp> the world is saved by one of Clint Eastwood, Bruce Willis, and Will Smith
20:33:24 <sbp> a popular actress undresses whilst a popular actor stays clothed
20:33:34 <sbp> and It's A Wonderful Life
20:33:45 <sbp> that's every single movie ever made covered
20:33:50 <AaronSw> a popular song plays in the background
20:33:51 <Morbus> world saving.
20:34:37 <Morbus> *** Morbus has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:34:49 <sbp> he couldn't handle the pressure. CAN YOU?!
20:35:41 <Morbus> *** Morbus (~morbus@morbus.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack
20:36:12 <sbp> Morbus: somebody chops through a door with an axe
20:36:27 <Morbus> i've got christmas,
20:36:29 <Morbus> the battle of hastings,
20:36:31 <Morbus> the crucifixtion,
20:36:32 <redmonk> * redmonk chaops through morbus with an axe
20:36:33 <Morbus> and i need one more.
20:36:37 <Morbus> too minor.
20:36:39 <Morbus> need Capital "C" events, like Christmas
20:36:57 <sbp> the Battle of Hastings is a "B" event
20:37:04 <Morbus> Capital Letters.
20:37:10 <Morbus> not necessarily Capital C.
20:37:11 <Morbus> goddamit <Mg>
20:37:21 <Morbus> wow, my keyboard has evolved.
20:37:24 <sbp> haha
20:37:24 <Morbus> now its doing capital Ms.
20:37:31 <sbp> that's so cool
20:37:36 <Morbus> it kinda is :)
20:37:41 <sbp> D-dayt
20:37:44 <sbp> s/t//
20:37:48 <Morbus> can't use that one.
20:37:52 <sbp> why not?
20:37:54 <Morbus> i'm already using that one as an example of related events.
20:37:58 <sbp> oh man
20:38:00 <Morbus> (WW1 <=> D Day, etc.)
20:38:16 <Morbus> i don't even know if it was ww1.
20:38:19 <Morbus> i'm horrific with history.
20:38:26 <sbp> II
20:38:39 <Morbus> thanks.
20:38:53 <sbp> JFK assasination?
20:38:59 <Morbus> Robot Upheaval?
20:39:07 <sbp> no, do JFK
20:39:21 <Morbus> ok.
20:39:25 <sbp> whoo!
20:39:29 <sbp> wow, you didn't dismiss it
20:39:30 <Morbus> maybe I'll use Robot Upheaval for "more than one form".
20:39:31 <sbp> "too American"
20:39:43 <sbp> yeah
20:39:52 <Morbus>     <p>Events are locations in time that take place within the media
20:39:52 <Morbus>     itself: Christmas, The Battle of Hastings, the Crucifixtion,
20:39:52 <Morbus>     JFK Assassination, etc.. They may be designated by more than one
20:39:52 <Morbus>     term ("World War II" and "D-Day"), or more than one form ("The Ring" and "The One Ring").</p>
20:39:56 <Morbus> i need to replace the last two.
20:40:11 <sbp> it's lucky you asked about WWII
20:40:26 <sbp> both the parens? why?
20:40:35 <Morbus> no, the last two quoted works.
20:40:36 <Morbus> words.
20:40:39 <Morbus> those were examples of objects.
20:40:44 <sbp> ohh, right
20:40:45 <Morbus> that we did last friday ;)
20:40:50 <sbp> yeah, yeah. I remember
20:40:57 <sbp> I AIN'T NO HO
20:40:58 <Ash> lalalalalalalalalala
20:41:00 <xover> WWI and The Great War perhaps?
20:41:01 <sbp> BUT I KNOWS WHAT I LIKES
20:41:15 <Morbus> xover: i need something i've not used before.
20:41:37 <Morbus> Battle and War are too close to my liking, but I need to move on.
20:41:44 <sbp> WWII and D-day aren't actually equivalent
20:42:03 <Morbus> no, but they can be used to generically describe the same event.
20:42:03 <sbp> too close?
20:42:12 <sbp> er, don't think so
20:42:24 <Morbus> D-Day started WW2, didn't it?
20:42:25 <sbp> WWI and The Great War would be much better
20:42:30 <sbp> not at all
20:42:37 <Morbus> ok, so, then i need "more than one term"
20:42:42 <sbp> it was one (though possibly the largest) campaign of it
20:42:43 <Morbus> er, form.
20:42:55 <sbp> use Terje's suggestion for the first
20:42:58 <sbp> and we'll think of another
20:43:04 <Morbus> oh, xover is terje?
20:43:05 <Morbus> ahahah.
20:43:10 <sbp> heh, heh
20:43:14 <JibberJim> er, surely it was one rather minor campaign of WW2 ?
20:43:28 <sbp> D-Day was minor?
20:43:45 <JibberJim> Yep, in terms of number of people involved..
20:43:52 <sbp> it was like all the combined allied forces bashing the shit out of the German forces in Normandy!
20:44:11 <JibberJim> Er, no it was like 10 divisions landing on a beach.
20:44:16 <Morbus> i'm actually going to just use "War" and "World War I".
20:44:26 <Morbus> because I want to describe a hierarchy, almost.
20:44:29 <sbp> they had to borrow sailors' boats because the navy didn't have enough!
20:44:29 <Morbus> Utensils > Fork.
20:44:32 <Morbus> War > World War I.
20:44:36 <sbp> er, fishermen's
20:44:40 <JibberJim> friend?
20:44:43 <sbp> heh, heh
20:44:46 <sbp> I like those
20:45:14 <JibberJim> Hmm, nothing you like more than going down to the docks of a night and sucking a fishermens friend?
20:45:14 <Morbus> Salem Witch Trials.
20:45:17 <Morbus> Did that have another name?
20:45:28 <xover> Friday?
20:45:33 <Morbus> Crusoe?
20:45:38 <sbp> Jim: I prefer to keep them at home
20:45:42 <JibberJim> The Murder of poor defense old ladies of an alternative lifestyle?
20:46:54 <sbp> Mountaineering and Conquering Everest
20:47:12 <Morbus> hmm./
20:47:12 <xover> Y'all are shite for free association... :-)
20:47:14 <sbp> Spaceflight and going to the Moon
20:47:25 <sbp> xover: very small inexpensive goat harness
20:47:45 <xover> See? That's more like it!
20:48:00 <Morbus> "space flight" and "moon landing"?
20:48:07 <sbp> don't think they made a movie out of it, though
20:48:18 <JibberJim> Hmm, but Morbus and goat harness isn't free association, it's his amazon wish list!
20:48:26 <Morbus> ahahahahaha
20:48:27 <sbp> heh, heh
20:49:22 <xover> * xover goes back to playing «Deus Ex: Invisible War»…
20:49:32 <Morbus> xover, play FFXI?
20:49:49 <xover> I don't know what that is.
20:50:04 <Morbus> a simple "no" would suffice.
20:50:13 <xover> Oh, hang on; Final Fantasy 11?
20:50:17 <Morbus> yeah :)
20:50:27 <xover> Ah. (Light dawns)
20:50:52 <xover> No, but I've made note of the series and plan on taking a look once 12 comes out on PC.
20:51:04 <Morbus> 12 will be single player only.
20:51:08 <Morbus> 11 is the only online version planned.
20:51:16 <xover> * xover prefers single player…
20:51:20 <Morbus> same here.
20:51:28 <Morbus> but, i'm lustful.
20:52:00 <xover> .googlecount lustful
20:52:02 <datum> lustful: 321,000
20:52:06 <xover> Wow!
20:52:15 <JibberJim> yeah single player makes my arm ache.
20:52:29 <xover> You need more practice!
20:52:56 <Morbus> jibberjim: wait til groove comes out in april ;)
20:53:31 <xover> * xover _really_ goes back to playing «Deus Ex: Invisible War»…
20:54:00 <sbp> * sbp remembers (watching friends) playing some old FF version in shops a lot when it came out
20:54:16 <sbp> 'twas hillariou
20:54:32 <sbp> Hillary Oose
20:54:51 <sbp> Hillary "You Know My Name, Look Up De Number" Oose
20:55:05 <sbp> Hillary "You, You Know, You Know My Name!" Oose
20:55:08 <sbp> Hillary "You, You Know, You Know My Name!" Oose
20:55:21 <sbp> Hillary "You Know My Name, (bah, buh bah bah)... Look Up De Number" Oose
20:55:47 <sbp> good evening, and welcome to Swhackers
20:55:57 <sbp> (--ASw)
21:06:40 <libby> *** libby has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
21:08:24 <Morbus> http://www.egmmag.com/article2/0,2053,1546691,00.asp
21:08:26 <Morbus> * Morbus groans./
21:09:09 <sbp> you're just jealous because it wasn't you
21:10:10 <sbp> haha. the "Mr. Sexiest" thing at the bottom's funny
21:10:24 <Morbus> i can't wait for groove
21:11:13 <Morbus> interesting
21:11:13 <Morbus> http://www.1up.com/article2/0,2053,1528444,00.asp
21:11:17 <Morbus> haven't heard of this one.
21:13:00 <Morbus> lol.
21:13:00 <Morbus> http://www.1up.com/article2/0,2053,1293082,00.asp
21:13:05 <Morbus> check out the un, screenshots.
21:13:08 <Morbus> i own this game.
21:13:18 <sbp> haha, I was just about to comment on the same thing: [Editor's note: Normally this space would include the usual snide remarks about various entries in the song list, but the author finds himself unable to hate on a karaoke game with Motorhead in it.]
21:13:29 <Morbus> :)
21:13:58 <sbp> you own that game?
21:14:20 <sbp> I can't believe you've dirtied my cache with the page, quite frankly
21:14:28 <Morbus> yup, i own american idol.
21:14:34 <Morbus> i have most american music games.
21:14:39 <Morbus> i love 'em.
21:14:42 <sbp> wait, the screenshot doesn't make much sense
21:14:43 <Morbus> even if they're horrible.
21:14:47 <Morbus> yeah. they fuckedup.
21:14:53 <Morbus> don't worry.
21:14:57 <Morbus> any screenshot is better than the real thing.
21:15:25 <sbp> heh, actually, I guess it's on purpose. right
21:15:49 <sbp> on a sidenote, Wrath Unleashed looks interesting
21:18:58 <Morbus> actually, no it doesn't.
21:19:00 <Morbus> the cover image does.
21:19:04 <Morbus> but trust me, the game is no good.
21:19:38 <sbp> oh well. noted
21:20:07 <Morbus> i got a few games that were supposed to be good.
21:20:11 <Morbus> but were rather tepid.
21:20:16 <Morbus> manhunt was too stealthy for me.
21:20:26 <Morbus> even though it was deemed all evil and shit.
21:20:43 <Morbus> and "here comes the pain", with its coveted "bra & panty" matches was just dumb.
21:20:49 <sbp> what's your favourite game of all time?
21:20:50 <Morbus> i should have known better, but hey, it was cheap at auction.
21:21:05 <Morbus> sbp: xenosaga at the moment, but i really don't think too much about "of all time" games.
21:21:06 <sbp> uhm
21:21:12 <Morbus> i'm currently playing the second ratchet and clank.
21:21:15 <Morbus> i loved the first one.
21:21:21 <Morbus> second one is "more of the same", and i'm not sure that's good.
21:21:24 <Morbus> i'm certainly enjoying myself.
21:21:31 <Morbus> but i really feel like i'm playing the first game again.
21:21:53 <Morbus> i'm looking forward to http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/citizen/03_2.html
21:21:58 <Morbus> which isnt the front page.
21:22:01 <Morbus> but just what i'm reading now.
21:22:18 <Morbus> i'm still deciding on what job I want to take.
21:22:28 <sbp> well hey, I think Exile is the zenith of gaming, so...
21:22:33 <Morbus> i'm leaning toward red mage, though i fear all the more powerful spells i'll lose by not speciallizing in white or black.
21:22:43 <Morbus> red mage, with an eventual desire to be bard/beastmaster.
21:23:00 <Morbus> i probably will stay black.
21:23:43 <sbp> FF has to be the biggest game misnomer ever
21:23:53 <Morbus> i got tired of hearing that around ff3.
21:23:55 <Morbus> please move on.
21:23:56 <Morbus> ;)
21:23:59 <sbp> haha
21:24:08 <sbp> yes but it gets truer all the time
21:24:13 <Morbus> yes.
21:24:25 <sbp> I was just reminded of HHG is all
21:24:44 <sbp> I wonder if there are any others?
21:24:48 <Morbus> so, what do you think sbp.
21:24:51 <Morbus> what job should i pick up first?
21:24:58 <sbp> what are the choices?
21:25:04 <Morbus> http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/citizen/03.html
21:25:09 <Morbus> the first six.
21:25:18 <Morbus> i typically lean always to magic side.
21:25:40 <Morbus> but, typically, when you use a combination (red), you don't get the full power of the specific (b/w).
21:25:47 <JibberJim> * JibberJim would like to be a milkman
21:25:49 <Morbus> but, i like jack of all trades.
21:25:58 <Morbus> JibberJim: you can make your own items and just be a craftsmen, sure.
21:26:39 <JibberJim> sure, but can I get a little electric float and some cows?
21:26:42 <sbp> rather limited choice
21:26:56 <Morbus> sbp: they're traditional roles in the ff series.
21:27:08 <sbp> so? they still suck
21:27:18 <sbp> you'd've think they'd've learned by now, in fact
21:27:25 <Morbus> * Morbus puts on his fffanboy blinders.
21:27:27 <Morbus> la la la la
21:27:29 <sbp> more choice plz thx
21:27:30 <sbp> haha
21:27:46 <Morbus> i was actually in on the ffxi beta ;)
21:27:51 <Morbus> using a pc at a game shop.
21:27:57 <Morbus> it wasn't too bad. first mmorpg i really wanted to get into.
21:28:19 <sbp> wow, I've been playing it longer than you? that's rather hillarious
21:28:33 <sbp> I barely even remember playing it
21:28:37 <Morbus> huh?
21:28:46 <Morbus> online rpg.
21:28:49 <Morbus> ffxi is the first one.
21:28:56 <Morbus> i've been playing ff since the first.
21:29:00 <sbp> oh
21:29:02 <sbp> rats
21:29:03 <Morbus> and dw before that ;)
21:29:26 <sbp> it was less surprising than it should've been because I figured the crap choice put you off
21:29:29 <Morbus> no, ffxi is just the first mmorpg i've wanted to play. none of the others seemed interesting.
21:29:50 <Morbus> i probably will "love" this one solely cos of my past history with the franchise.
21:30:51 <sbp> I'd probably get you to skip to red mage
21:30:56 <sbp> just because
21:31:09 <Morbus> yeah, because money is typically always scarce.
21:31:14 <Morbus> and if i'm spending it on healing potions...
21:31:24 <Morbus> but, that's why i need to find someone to group with.
21:31:29 <Morbus> which is why i keep talking about it of late.
21:31:40 <Morbus> tryiing to accidentally bump into someone so they won't know my master plan.
21:31:43 <Morbus> muha ha. muahah. sigh.
21:31:49 <sbp> but this is like "hey Sean, what rocket fuel should I use? nitromethane and LOX, or just plain water?" "oh, well, water's all sparkly and pretty! use that!"
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21:44:28 <AaronSw> Seth writes that the EFF's zip code is 94110
21:49:29 <sbp> ah, thank you
21:52:59 <sbp> wow, you mean that this thing that we comment on here in Swhack is interactive?
21:54:33 <Morbus> nuh uh!
21:54:39 <Morbus> too high tech for me.
21:54:44 <Morbus> i get worried about stuff like that
21:55:38 <Morbus> i wonder if i could run ffxi inside vpc on an old mac.
21:55:44 <Morbus> cos vpc still doesn't work on g5s.
21:55:51 <Morbus> i doubt it.
21:55:54 <Morbus> i can barely run IE.
21:55:55 <Morbus> heh, heh
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22:38:57 <sbp> heh, heh. "These are some important fucking shoes!" - Achewood
22:39:51 <sbp> heh, this series is pretty good
22:48:37 <Ash> yeah it's funny
22:48:51 <sbp> where did you spring from?
22:49:41 <Ash> SPRING
22:49:43 <AaronSw> wtf? "python2.3 depends on python (>= 2.3)"
22:49:48 <sbp> haha
22:50:26 <sbp> from __future__ import *
22:50:33 <Ash> hugs
22:50:35 <Ash>                     HUGS
22:50:39 <Ash>         hugS!
22:50:40 <sbp>    hugs!
22:50:41 <AaronSw> did you see how that causes a ParadoxError?
22:50:42 <Ash>    Hugs!
22:50:45 <sbp>            hUGS!
22:50:47 <Ash>                         HugS!!!
22:50:50 <Ash> heheh
22:50:57 <sbp> HUGS!
22:51:18 <sbp> "ParadoxError": just do except ParadoxError: continue
22:51:40 <sbp> manual
22:51:46 <AaronSw> no seriously, __future__ includes ImportStarIsEvil and EvilThingsAreErrors
22:52:08 <sbp> let's hope so
22:52:11 <AaronSw> someone from 2038 wrote in and told us
22:52:23 <sbp> but it's being called from the past where import splat is still stupidly allowed
22:52:45 <sbp> "he's got lots of hugs for ev'ryone"
22:53:24 <sbp> I'll be fairly surprised if Python's still Python in 2038
22:53:33 <sbp> but then C's lasted about as long
22:57:07 <Ash> lala
22:57:25 <sbp> and LISP is ancient
22:57:35 <sbp> and only used by ancient-thinking folk
22:57:36 <Ash> LISP is the oldest in use
22:57:39 <Ash> besides fortran
22:57:49 <sbp> fortran doesn't count as being in use...
22:57:52 <Ash> and fortran is scary
23:00:41 <AaronSw> man, when apt gets screwed up it really gets screwed up
23:01:27 <sbp> * sbp somehow feels that this is probably his fault
23:02:01 <Ash> AaronSw: apt does not gracefully handle things like that
23:02:13 <Ash> there is a reason all the debian users i know seem to reinstall their systems completely every so often
23:02:16 <Ash> heh
23:02:41 <AaronSw> oh, hm, it looks like apt-source will work. I didn't know about that.
23:02:57 <AaronSw> err apt-get source
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23:29:10 <Ash> portupgrade is so great.
23:29:12 <Ash> whee
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23:37:44 <d8uv> Yo 
23:37:59 <jillzilla> hiya
23:41:35 <Ash> JILLZ
23:42:36 <sbp> jill!
23:42:42 <sbp> sorry I missed you the other day
23:42:43 <sbp> meetings
23:42:50 <sbp> and!
23:43:07 <sbp> <sbp> rxvt on cygwin does not support utf-8
23:43:08 <sbp> <sbp> it barely even supports iso-8859-1
23:43:08 <sbp> <sbp> GIR is most awesome. "I miss the cupcake"
23:43:08 <sbp> <sbp> I am sorry to hear about jill's hellish day
23:43:08 <sbp> <sbp> I am sorry to hear about xover's hellish day
23:43:08 <sbp> <sbp> I am sorry to hear about d8uv's almost certainly hellish day
23:43:44 <sbp> have the pigeons managed to stabilize it yet?
23:47:46 <jillzilla> awwww
23:47:57 <jillzilla> * jillzilla feels all welcome and stuff :)
23:48:03 <sbp> heh, heh
23:48:11 <jillzilla> I think it's mostly stable now, but it'll soon get the next test.
23:48:16 <jillzilla> * jillzilla looks paranoid
23:48:27 <sbp> that's good to hear
23:48:55 <sbp> buildup of pigeon droppings in the system again, was it?
23:49:23 <jillzilla> surprisingly, this time it was the hamsters
23:49:25 <jillzilla> OOPS
23:49:29 <jillzilla> I wasn't supposed to mention them!
23:49:30 <jillzilla> DOH
23:49:43 <sbp> oh man. I am so going to get famous for this upcoming exposé
23:50:00 <sbp> "Jill Zilla Reveals All!" will make a good title, too
23:50:07 <jillzilla> o noe
23:50:39 <xover> «… Bares All!»
23:50:50 <sbp> that's more like it
23:51:08 <xover> Much better innuenduity that way.
23:51:09 <sbp> oh, no, wait
23:51:23 <sbp> "Pigeons and Hamsters Galore: Jill Zilla Bares All!"
23:51:33 <sbp> that's a best seller
23:52:08 <jillzilla> "Pigeons and Hamsters Galore: Jill Zilla Shaves All!"
23:52:11 <sbp> well, she only mentioned the one hamster so far, and that was one that borked the code
23:52:35 <sbp> aren't you meant to pluck pigeons? well, not your boss-pigeons, that'd be bad
23:54:40 <sbp> I can just imagine the weblog entry. "Today, Pigeonmeister Sue's hamster got into our code repository somehow and nibbled through one of the wires causing a crash and mass data corruptage. I fixed it all singlehandedly, though, whilst fending off incoming pigeon shit with my free hand. I renew my application for a cubicle with a tarp cover. I will PLUCK YOU ALL if I do not get it. Stompage, --Jill"
23:56:10 <jillzilla> hee. "stompage'
23:57:15 <sbp> use it wisely, my friend
23:57:47 <sbp> I think that "-age" is my suffix of the week
23:57:55 <sbp> so much suffixage
23:58:06 <deltab> mass suffixage
23:58:21 <sbp> heh
23:58:29 <sbp> oh, deltab!
23:58:49 <sbp> did you have any pigeon overlords in any of your job(s)?
23:59:43 <jillzilla> did? does deltab no longer work?
23:59:44 <sbp> * sbp has been reconsidering applying for a job at the big G recently--doesn't know if he can handle cleaning up all the little feathers
23:59:49 <deltab> coincidentally, it's been a week of ages for me too
23:59:59 <sbp> well, or do, but I haven't heard him mention them lately