2004-05-12 Swhack IRC Log

00:01:24 <themaximus> *** themaximus (~themax@roc-24-169-188-175.rochester.rr.com) has joined #swhack
00:02:11 <kandinski> "Like anything Spanish, El Niño is dangerous"
00:02:12 <kandinski> hehe
00:11:37 <arcon> *** arcon (~arcon@dsl027-161-088.atl1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #swhack
00:11:41 <arcon> *** arcon has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
00:18:34 <sbp> okay, reverse index set to be cronned at one minute past midnight UTC
00:19:17 <sbp> I need to set up a search form really
00:19:21 <sbp> but I'm gonna hack phenny
00:24:41 <xover> * xover dislikes non-instant indexes...
00:24:53 <sbp> it's instant
00:25:05 <sbp> today's logs are searched live
00:25:27 <xover> Yes, the search. But is the index live?
00:25:47 <sbp> it doesn't matter since the index is only for the logs that are over a day old
00:25:58 <kandinski> http://mpt.net.nz/archive/2004/05/09/semantic
00:26:41 <d8uv> So, midnight UTC everything will be messed up for 1 minute, possibly 2.
00:26:52 <kandinski> when semantic coders go bad: I would like a curt comment, wry reply, or any alliterative or rhymed riposte to the above URI by youse who have given the matter some thought
00:27:28 <sbp> yesterday's stuff won't be in the index, yeah
00:28:21 <sbp> * sbp grudingly reads it
00:28:33 <kandinski> no, sbp, not if you don't want to
00:28:58 <kandinski> grudgily grudgily mutter mutter
00:29:28 <d8uv> B and I were made for purposes.
00:29:50 <d8uv> For me, semantic coding is all about using things for their purposes.
00:29:57 <d8uv> So why not use b and i?
00:30:07 <sbp> yeah, mpt is right
00:31:01 <d8uv> * d8uv games
00:31:37 <kandinski> good
00:31:57 <sbp> I had a big discussion about this with a prominent HTML person once (it wasn't Connolly...), and he gave the example of when you're transcribing text from a book or somesuch. you can't interpret italics therein as <em> necessarily
00:32:43 <d8uv> grr... explorer.exe crashed.
00:32:44 <kandinski> I was talking to a friend who had worked in the digitization of the Corpus of the Real Academia, and we both agreed that for old books, we should mark b and i, then declare in the css what we inferred about what I and B meant
00:32:51 <kandinski> exactly
00:33:13 <xover> When you're transcribing you're also interpreting; and the style guide for the publisher will determine the actual semantics of italicized text.
00:33:26 <kandinski> but neither my friend nor I are experts, so when I found this article I just had to ask you
00:33:36 <kandinski> sorry for interrupgint the indexing discussion
00:33:49 <sbp> ideally you'd probably have a language that had no semantics whatsoever, only structure, and then annotate the structure with the semantics separately. that'd allow you to do with semantics what CSS is for presentation
00:34:21 <jsled> ooh.
00:34:27 <sbp> but I don't see an easy way of making that acceptable to the ViewSourceClan
00:34:34 <kandinski> ooh indeed
00:34:36 <kandinski> clever
00:34:46 <sbp> yeah. well, cf. XAG :-)
00:34:48 <kandinski> .g ViewSourceClan
00:34:50 <sbp> .g XAG
00:34:54 <jsled> heh
00:34:58 <sbp> ...phenny?!
00:35:01 <Ash> italic symantics
00:35:03 <Ash> sheesh
00:35:08 <Ash> * Ash stabs you all in the face
00:35:09 <jsled> Oh my god. Someone killed phenny!
00:35:13 <sbp> haha
00:35:23 <jsled> [you bastards!]
00:35:24 <kandinski> AMIGO, SIENTATE, HOMBRE!
00:35:29 <phenny> *** phenny has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
00:35:32 <Ash> *** Ash has changed the topic to: Make something idiot-proof and they'll invent a better sbp
00:36:02 <phenny> *** phenny (sbp@vorpal.notabug.com) has joined #swhack
00:36:02 <Monty> it's phenny!
00:36:04 <kandinski> .google ViewSourceClan
00:36:04 <xena> ViewSourceClan: http://www.intertwingly.net/wiki/pie/ViewSourceClan
00:36:15 <sbp> .g XAG
00:36:15 <phenny> XAG: http://www.w3.org/TR/xag
00:36:24 <Ash> .g HAG
00:36:24 <phenny> HAG: http://oldhag.blogspot.com/
00:36:54 <sbp> XAG is more important than ViewSourceClan... but VSC is interesting nevertheless
00:37:07 <Ash> * Ash frags the SourceClan
00:37:28 <kandinski> well, bye
00:37:47 <kandinski> AQUÍ SALE UN HOMBRE
00:37:55 <kandinski> ciao bambini
00:37:58 <kandinski> *** kandinski has quit ("Going... going... gone")
00:38:17 <sbp> him and his "normal" sleeping schedule
00:39:47 <sbp> jsled: also: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2002Feb/0002
00:41:01 <sbp> Aaron's class hierarchy of elements was good
00:43:57 <jsled> cool; thanks; filed away with the other 457 things to be read "Soon!". Will feedback in ~85 days.
00:44:03 <sbp> heh
00:44:05 <jsled> :/
00:44:12 <sbp> just like Morbus
00:44:32 <jsled> No. My bookmarks outweighed his, I believe.
00:44:50 <sbp> at the time, yeah, but he reads his rather often to whittle them down
00:45:42 <jsled> I've really optimized the _discovery_ and _bookmarking_ portions of my information consumption.
00:45:50 <sbp> heh, heh
00:45:53 <jsled> I just need to fix the rest.
00:46:04 <sbp> @topic add <jsled> I've really optimized the _discovery_ and _bookmarking_ portions of my information consumption.
00:46:06 <supybot> *** supybot has changed the topic to: Make something idiot-proof and they'll invent a better sbp || <jsled> I've really optimized the _discovery_ and _bookmarking_ portions of my information consumption. (sbp)
00:46:11 <deltab> hehe, me too
00:46:45 <deltab> @echo [last --with optim]
00:46:47 <supybot> <sbp> @topic add <jsled> I've really optimized the _discovery_ and _bookmarking_ portions of my information consumption.
00:46:57 <deltab> yay, includes nick
00:47:56 <sbp> hmm
00:48:24 <MoiraA> nn everyone
00:48:36 <sbp> <block type="{xhtml:h1|xhtml:a}" xhtml:href="./nightMoira">Night Moira</block>
00:48:48 <MoiraA> :)
00:48:48 <jsled> heh.
00:49:01 <MoiraA> finally got my copy of the beheading downloaded
00:49:05 <sbp> always multitasking...
00:49:09 <sbp> how lovely!
00:49:13 <MoiraA> yeah :(
00:49:41 <sbp> not quite sure why anyone would want to watch that
00:49:48 <sbp> people seem to have a fascination with the macabre
00:50:07 <jsled> Well, for me, I wanted to see how much effort it was to behead someone.
00:50:16 <jsled> The answer is: a lot.
00:50:17 <sbp> that's disturbing
00:50:34 <jsled> quite
00:51:10 <sbp> when it was commonish in England, sometimes the people being executed would give the executioners a present to try to ensure a clean cut
00:52:08 <jsled> a present? Like a new blade or sharpening stone?
00:52:20 <sbp> that'd probably be the best idea
00:52:48 <MoiraA> yes, I got a particularly clear copy in the end :(
00:52:55 <jsled> oh ... you're saying a random present in the hopes the executioner would just do a better job...
00:53:00 <MoiraA> I was just curious because everyone else had seen it
00:53:27 <MoiraA> and the ****ing link kept stopping the download halfway through which was frustrating
00:53:46 <MoiraA> must be off
00:54:07 <sbp> hmm. the problem with @type is that it's hardly separating the semantics out, just allowing you to do unions and intersections (can anyone think of a good intersection use case? union's hard enough). to separate it, you'd have to use XPath, which is not joy
00:54:13 <sbp> c'ya Moira
00:54:34 <sbp> it'd end up a bit like XSLT
00:54:42 <sbp> with CSS syntax
00:54:46 <MoiraA> *** MoiraA has quit ("gus is *not* human")
00:55:03 <sbp> which is why I was wondering about RELAX NG too
00:55:49 <sbp> as SandS feebly argued (and XAG argued better), it would be nice to ascribe elements' semantics at the schema level
00:56:11 <sbp> EricP did some schema annotation work recently; I could probably ping him about it
00:57:22 <sbp> another thing is that structural semantics are still semantics: they're mainly related to visual rendering, but there are also some implicit presentational aspects, e.g. pause-after for block level elements
00:58:41 <sbp> best use of the infoset for generic content languages is like trying to find the best use of a guitar for packing luggage into
00:59:59 <sbp> whoops, I was meant to be hacking on phenny
01:00:00 <sbp> heh
01:13:38 <phenny> *** phenny has quit (Remote closed the connection)
01:39:34 <phenny> *** phenny (sbp@vorpal.notabug.com) has joined #swhack
01:44:13 <phenny> *** phenny has quit (Remote closed the connection)
01:54:45 <perm> *** perm has quit (Remote closed the connection)
01:55:34 <phenny> *** phenny (sbp@vorpal.notabug.com) has joined #swhack
01:55:40 <d8uv> Hi!
01:55:42 <sbp> okay, phenny has been updated
01:55:43 <sbp> hi there d8uv
01:55:52 <sbp> she can now give d8uv's timezone using his name:
01:55:55 <sbp> .t d8uv
01:55:55 <phenny> Tue, 11 May 2004 17:55:55 D8UV
01:56:02 <sbp> she'll warn you if you use .wn stupidly
01:56:04 <sbp> .wn hmm
01:56:04 <phenny> sbp: please use my .w function instead of .wn, as the output is truncated and less liable to cause flooding.
01:56:17 <sbp> using .swhack will now provide swhack.com results
01:56:22 <sbp> (and it should be faster)
01:56:25 <sbp> .swhack HTMAL
01:56:25 <phenny> htmal: 2002-04-05 15:59:15 <Ash> so your browser says: POST GET HTTP://APACHE.COM/INDEX.HTMAL -- http://swhack.com/logs/2002-04-05#T15-59-15
01:56:35 <sbp> and, also, she can do etymology lookups!
01:56:36 <sbp> .ety thing
01:56:38 <phenny> thing: [Dan. thing, ting, Norw. ting, or
01:56:39 <phenny>  Sw. ting.]
01:56:44 <d8uv> No shortcut for those?
01:56:45 <sbp> .ety frog
01:56:47 <phenny> frog: [o^]g), n. [AS. froggu, frocga a frog (in
01:56:48 <phenny>  sensel); akin to D. vorsch, OHG. frosk, G. frosch, Icel.
01:56:50 <phenny>  froskr, fraukr, Sw. & Dan. fr["o].] [...]
01:57:05 <sbp> shortcut or what? they're all pretty short except for .swhack
01:57:17 <sbp> .ety spiggot
01:57:18 <d8uv> .ety skeet
01:57:19 <phenny> spiggot:
01:57:21 <phenny> skeet: [Etymol. uncertain.] (Naut.)
01:57:22 <phenny>  A scoop with a long handle, used to wash the sides of a
01:57:24 <phenny>  vessel, and formerly to wet the sails or deck. [...]
01:57:47 <sbp> it's a little bit buggy, as you can see
01:57:51 <d8uv> Heh
01:58:07 <sbp> trouble is, the etymologies aren't provided very regularly
01:58:15 <d8uv> .t sbp
01:58:15 <sbp> so she tries her best to screen scrape the results
01:58:15 <phenny> Sorry, I don't know about time zone SBP.
01:58:23 <d8uv> Heh
01:58:39 <sbp> .ety idiot
01:58:40 <phenny> idiot: [F. idiot, L. idiota an uneducated,
01:58:41 <phenny>  ignorant, ill-informed person, Gr. ?, also and orig., a
01:58:43 <phenny>  private person, not holding public office, fr. ? proper, [...]
01:58:53 <jsled> .t jsled
01:58:53 <phenny> Sorry, I don't know about time zone JSLED.
01:59:02 <sbp> only Ash and d8uv are implemented
01:59:33 <sbp> oh, I should find that old CTCP TIME code
01:59:43 <Ash> jsalad
01:59:44 <sbp> that was roxorality en extremis
01:59:49 <sbp> heheh
02:08:25 <sbp> heh, just sold another item for 750 meat. reaching 18000 meat total
02:08:38 <sbp> d8uv: I can't find that time bot. can you remember what it was called?
02:08:41 <sbp> oh, utilityboy?
02:08:47 <sbp> might be searching in the wrong place...
02:09:32 <sbp> yeah. I've found it
02:13:00 <phenny> *** phenny has quit (Remote closed the connection)
02:24:02 <deltab> @echo time?
02:24:03 <supybot> time?
02:24:28 <deltab> it's not local, it's on another continent :-)
02:24:31 <sbp> heh, remind me to do that when I restart her
02:24:38 <sbp> oh I see
02:28:11 <phenny> *** phenny (sbp@vorpal.notabug.com) has joined #swhack
02:28:27 <sbp> now she responds to namespaced pings, and can return a local time
02:28:31 <sbp> phenny: ping?
02:28:31 <phenny> pong
02:28:34 <sbp> time?
02:28:35 <phenny> 03:28:35 (timezone: 0)
02:28:45 <sbp> @echo time?
02:28:47 <supybot> time?
02:29:05 <sbp> I guess supybot doesn't respond to CTCP TIME
02:31:24 <d8uv> Nice.
03:20:40 <phenny> *** phenny has quit (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
03:20:40 <bjoern_> *** bjoern_ has quit (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
03:20:40 <swhacker> *** swhacker has quit (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
03:22:52 <phenny> *** phenny (sbp@vorpal.notabug.com) has joined #swhack
03:24:19 <d8uv> @echo .wn farts
03:24:20 <supybot> .wn farts
03:24:20 <phenny> supybot: please use my .w function instead of .wn, as the output is truncated and less liable to cause flooding.
03:25:02 <d8uv> And this is what happens when doves cry.
03:26:26 <sbp> I should get it to kickban you everytime you say something
03:26:54 <sbp> haha
03:27:11 <sbp> [talking about Dr. Who wearing gay clothes]
03:27:23 <sbp> [and not looking at his sidekick's breasts]
03:28:24 <sbp> I think they're calling the BBC props department gay now
03:29:06 <sbp> hmm, that's good: wanting to take Dr. Who's writing back to the early days
03:30:14 <sbp> I hope they do Red Dwarf level effects
03:30:22 <sbp> seems to be a sweetspot
03:30:52 <sbp> heheh. keeping the music
03:31:16 <sbp> two years?!
03:31:24 <sbp> bleh
03:31:32 <sbp> as long as they get it right...
03:32:16 <sbp> URI: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/runningorder/ram/today3_drwho_20030927.ram
03:32:21 <sbp> with thanks to deltab
03:34:34 <eikeon> *** eikeon (~eikeon@68.49.224.63) has joined #swhack
03:44:32 <eikeon> 
03:45:01 <sbp> 
03:45:05 <eikeon> :)
03:45:09 <sbp> welcome!
03:45:22 <eikeon> * eikeon sleepy tonight
03:45:25 <d8uv> * d8uv eats eikeon
03:45:30 <eikeon> hum
03:45:50 <eikeon> * eikeon runs... hides behind eikco
03:46:20 <d8uv> * d8uv seasons eikco
03:46:57 <sbp> * sbp hands d8uv some replacement Autumn
03:47:03 <sbp> (that's what we call Fall)
03:48:00 <sbp> could I BE any more patronizing?
03:48:06 <sbp> possibly. I'll have to work on it a bit
03:48:33 <sbp> that is what we English people call a SENSE OF HUMOUR (now with added U!)
03:49:12 <sbp> * sbp goes and edits the logs
03:49:39 <d8uv> I love spaceships!
03:49:43 <eikeon> * eikeon goes to publish another log of #swhack ;)
03:50:01 <sbp> spaceships are disturbingly cool usually
03:50:08 <sbp> ooh, ten minutes to go
03:50:11 <sbp> .t -5
03:50:11 <phenny> Tue, 11 May 2004 22:50:11 -5
03:50:21 <sbp> .t (BST - 5)
03:50:40 <phenny> Sod off.
03:50:41 <eikeon> gotta love the spaceship!
03:51:04 <d8uv> Kittens are adorable space creatures.
03:51:20 <sbp> especially when they wait antennae hairbands
03:51:26 <sbp> hmm. I'm thinking of space girls
03:51:30 <d8uv> I think I'm going to drive my car into a building and crash.
03:51:39 <sbp> and wair. ware? wear. yeah, that one
03:51:51 <tav|offline> *** tav|offline has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
03:51:54 <sbp> chocolate?
03:52:04 <sbp> d8uv: did Husselman then?
03:52:13 <d8uv> Chocolate is only good on wednesdays.
03:52:18 <sbp> checked
03:52:20 <d8uv> Husselman busselman
03:52:35 <tav|offline> *** tav|offline (~tav@espians.com) has joined #swhack
03:52:38 <d8uv> Do you have any rye?
03:52:57 <sbp> that large gold melon that the goat that Ash talked to pulled out of its ass was probably shinier than all the rye that you were just talking about to me right there could possibly be
03:53:00 <perm> *** perm (~fone@24.158.102.35) has joined #swhack
03:53:23 <eikeon> Monty, insult
03:53:43 <d8uv> So, in short, sbp is an awesome person and would NEVER abuse his powers.
03:53:45 <d8uv> Amen.
03:53:49 <sbp> * sbp nods
03:54:59 <deltab> sbp: some unixy stuff: http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/articles.html and http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/software.html
03:55:13 <sbp> Jill needs to buy a Zaurus
03:55:15 <sbp> There's a magical box, Jill's got one right there / There's apps in a million all under one screen. / It's called: Jill's Zaurus! [music] There's millions of JeffK's all udner one screen! / It's called Jill's Zaurus, Jill's Zaurus, Jill's Zaurus!
03:55:19 <sbp> thanks deltab. loading
03:56:57 <d8uv> "Jeopardy needs to add something to the format to make it more interesting. They should end the show with a knife fight." -- Vertical Bob
03:57:27 <sbp> heh, I think everybody must've made one of these: Html2text: A Perl program for converting HTML to plain text
03:57:57 <sbp> ooh, inplace...
03:58:21 <sbp> heh, good name: "Lusers: A program to list logged-on users"
03:59:32 <deltab> http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/2002/05/roadsigns.html
04:00:52 <sbp> neat: http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/2001/04/shell.html
04:01:29 <sbp> He Denies Everything (rjk's homepage, tons of Good Stuff): http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/
04:01:35 <sbp> oh right
04:01:50 <sbp> heh. Danger - Falling Memes
04:04:22 <sbp> *** sbp has quit (Remote closed the connection)
04:04:40 <sbp> *** sbp (sbp@vorpal.notabug.com) has joined #swhack
04:05:23 <deltab> have you heard of allism?
04:05:45 <deltab> http://www.fysh.org/~zefram/allism/
04:07:16 <tav|offline> *** tav|offline has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
04:07:49 <tav|offline> *** tav|offline (~tav@espians.com) has joined #swhack
04:11:28 <sbp> nope
04:18:30 <deltab> http://www.txtkit.sw.ofcd.com/
04:21:21 <sbp> hmph. "The software requires Mac OS X 10.3 and Internet access."
04:22:27 <deltab> hmm
04:28:39 <eikeon> * eikeon takes in: http://www.sw.ofcd.com/binaries/txtkit_1.1.0_08.png for a while
04:29:51 <deltab> reminds me of Channel 4 News :-)
04:51:44 <LTjake_> *** LTjake_ (~brian@CPE0080c80c52fd-CM0000391ae05e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #swhack
04:55:21 <redmonk> *** redmonk (~steve@ip68-104-177-198.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #swhack
05:01:42 <redmonk> swhack
05:01:53 <d8uv> redmonk
05:02:20 <redmonk> hi d8uv
05:02:24 <redmonk> how's wp going/
05:02:26 <redmonk> ?
05:03:10 <d8uv> Ok
05:03:15 <d8uv> Well and such
05:05:37 <redmonk> what's your site again?
05:07:09 <redmonk> thanks
05:07:31 <d8uv> As stated before, not live yet.
05:09:09 <LTjake> *** LTjake has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
05:09:39 <redmonk> natch
05:09:55 <redmonk> i don't really understand that top post
05:10:09 <d8uv> Most don't.
05:12:06 <d8uv> I need a method on how to hide CSS from Mozilla.
05:12:22 <d8uv> I found one, but it's weird.
05:13:49 <redmonk> why hide?
05:14:52 <d8uv> Because it's doing stupid things.
05:15:53 <redmonk> ah
05:18:19 <d8uv> Particularly with headers, and spacing. See: d8uv.com/fp.php
05:18:50 <d8uv> Looks fine in Moz browsers, messed up in others.
05:20:00 <redmonk> ah
05:20:29 <redmonk> so fp is grabbing stuff from the blog?
05:20:54 <redmonk> that would be the reason for the auto-excerpt comments?
05:21:06 <d8uv> Yeah
05:21:23 <d8uv> I know about the excerpt feature, but
05:21:31 <d8uv> I care more about this.
05:21:43 <sbp> ooh! ooh! strange leaflet!
05:22:04 <redmonk> hello sbp
05:23:20 <sbp> hi there. whoo! "An eerie glow surrounds you. You feel healthier, wealthier, and wiser. (+100 Strongness, +100 Magicalness, +100 Smarm, +10,000 Meat)"
05:24:26 <redmonk> is that from idlerpg?
05:24:31 <sbp> nah, KoL
05:24:36 <sbp> http://kingdomofloathing.com/
05:25:13 <redmonk> heh
05:26:55 <d8uv> sbp: How the crap did that happen?
05:27:50 <redmonk> he paid off the DM
05:31:23 <sbp> it's a task that the council set you
05:32:16 <sbp> I have nearly 23,000 meat now. rolling in it!
05:32:25 <sbp> hmm... rolling in meat...
05:34:55 <Sunir> *** Sunir (~Sunir@67.71.120.10) has joined #swhack
05:35:58 <phenny> *** phenny has quit (Remote closed the connection)
05:37:42 <phenny> *** phenny (sbp@vorpal.notabug.com) has joined #swhack
05:37:43 <Monty> hi phenny
05:37:43 <phenny> hi, Monty
05:37:45 <Monty> agreed that grps before all look...yucky
05:45:44 <thelsdj> silly science question: why might instant pudding not solidify when using soy milk instead of regular milk? maybe it depends on the milk fats or something?
05:50:32 <Sunir> sugar?
05:51:10 <Sunir> have you tried stirring sugar into the mix?
06:09:21 <thelsdj> hmm no hadn't tried that, wouldn't the instant pudding have enough sugar in it already?
06:10:41 <thelsdj> hey, anyone have any suggestions for a good password manager, one with good encryption and a nice interface, i've got sooo many passwords to remember for work that my little piece of nootepad paper is already filled on both sides and we are changing all ourpasswords friday so i thought its the right time to go with another solution haha
06:13:16 <thelsdj> hmm i think its time to read speaker for the dead again
06:19:29 <d8uv> thelsdj: Can't you just make a wiki, auth it, then put it behind https?
06:20:34 <d8uv> Night!
06:20:55 <thelsdj> well i want the file on the hard disk to be encrypted and easily accessable
06:21:37 <thelsdj> (for those who don't know what 'Speaker for the Dead' is its the first book in the best science fiction trilogy of all time heh)
06:29:02 <thelsdj> "Since we are not yet fully comfortable with the idea that people from the next village are as human as ourselves, it is presumptuous in the extreme to supose we could ever look at sociable, tool-making creatures who arose from other evolutionary paths and see not beasts but brothers, not rivals but fellow pilgrims journeying to the shrine of intelligence."
06:29:07 <thelsdj> (did that cut?)
06:38:20 <Sunir> *** Sunir has quit (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
06:39:08 <Sunir> *** Sunir (~Sunir@67.71.120.10) has joined #swhack
06:39:09 <Monty> bah, it's Sunir again
06:55:47 <perm> hi
07:24:05 <hamm_> *** hamm_ has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.62dp [Mozilla rv:1.6/20040206]")
07:31:45 <redmonk> *** redmonk has quit ("Quitting")
07:38:27 <phenny> *** phenny has quit (Remote closed the connection)
07:55:27 <phenny> *** phenny (sbp@vorpal.notabug.com) has joined #swhack
07:56:26 <kandinski> *** kandinski (~kandinski@80.28.181.88) has joined #swhack
07:58:10 <hamm_> *** hamm_ (~hamm_@217.34.110.58) has joined #swhack
08:05:42 <kandinski> anyone can tell me what I am supposed to be attending in Madrid on June 4.5?
08:05:50 <sbp> some SVG thing, isn't it?
08:05:58 <kandinski> SW-related, but I can't remember
08:06:01 <kandinski> hi sean
08:06:09 <sbp> hi!
08:06:14 <sbp> me neither
08:06:16 <kandinski> I wanted to check it up and maybe even contact the Spanish sponsors
08:06:35 <kandinski> is it morning for you? or are you on late night BPT?
08:07:09 <kandinski> I am so chuffed I am slowly getting to live in sync with my fellow human beings, sleeping roughly 7 hours a night from 1AM to 8AM
08:07:19 <sbp> early morning BST, early afternoon BPT
08:07:32 <sbp> heh, yeah I noticed. shame that you had to leave last night though
08:07:45 <kandinski> yes, but I have to make some sacrifices
08:07:53 <kandinski> the other way madness lies
08:08:00 <sbp> and wow, I think that you're the first person to have noticed BPT
08:08:01 <sbp> heh
08:08:09 <sbp> lemme try to find out what's going down in Madrid in June
08:08:28 <kandinski> so I will have to make do with the logs
08:09:17 <sbp> ah, SWAD-E; Image description workshop
08:09:26 <sbp> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/Europe/events/200406-img/
08:09:31 <kandinski> thanks now
08:09:43 <kandinski> I remembered the dates wrong
08:10:12 <sbp> * sbp knows where to acquire himself the infos
08:10:21 <kandinski> hell, it is out on Boadilla Campus of UPM
08:10:28 <kandinski> where I did the Stallman interview
08:10:32 <kandinski> I hate that place
08:10:33 <sbp> heh, heh
08:10:41 <sbp> you cannot escape
08:11:05 <kandinski> I will make sure to register and stuff
08:11:14 <kandinski> Jim is giving a talk, I say
08:11:14 <sbp> yeah, by June 1st
08:11:16 <kandinski> I see
08:11:21 <sbp> he is? oh, great
08:11:31 <sbp> shame we've got no swhacker
08:11:45 <kandinski> what happened to swhacker?
08:12:08 <sbp> Chaals seems like he'll be there too--I've met him a couple of times. he's great
08:12:12 <sbp> it fell off as usual
08:12:32 <kandinski> ok, I will give people the Grand Tour
08:12:43 <kandinski> Museums, urban architecture, tapas...
08:12:52 <sbp> sure
08:12:58 <sbp> <Ash> *porno music plays*
08:13:01 <kandinski> ...guided visit to the People's Islamic Independent Republic of Lavapiés...
08:13:11 <themaximus> *** themaximus has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
08:13:40 <sbp> 'ow far's Gibraltar? Jim could nip back "home"
08:13:40 <kandinski> (that is where the 11M bombers were initially found)
08:13:49 <themaximus> *** themaximus (themax@themaximus.registered) has joined #swhack
08:13:52 <sbp> (ah...)
08:13:53 <kandinski> about 600 km south
08:14:03 <sbp> ah, you could walk that in a few days
08:14:10 <kandinski> Fast trains take you quite close in 3 hours
08:14:25 <kandinski> well, sbp, it is funny you should comment that
08:14:30 <sbp> nah walk, it'll do you good
08:15:10 <kandinski> US people I talk to about my coming trip to Barcelona say "wow, you are traveling all the time"
08:15:25 <kandinski> like they don't *commute* farther in some cases
08:15:58 <kandinski> it is 3.5 hours on the fast train (Talgo on interim tracks, the real thing will get there in 2.5 hours)
08:16:15 <kandinski> by the way, big party in Barcelona on the night of the 15th
08:16:32 <kandinski> House Industries (typographers who are also a rock band) are playing
08:16:43 <kandinski> all my Barcelona typographer friends will be in attendance
08:16:52 <sbp> typographic rock? sounds great
08:16:52 <kandinski> and some other very interesting people...
08:16:57 <sbp> 15th of June or July or May?
08:17:01 <kandinski> yes, they are true eccentrics
08:17:04 <kandinski> this coming weekend
08:17:14 <kandinski> one of them is a Hare Krishna
08:17:16 <sbp> oh. I probably won't be able to make it then--that's a shame
08:17:32 <kandinski> I think I told you a couple of weeks ago
08:17:49 <kandinski> but never mind, there are more days than sausages
08:17:53 <sbp> I probably wouldn't've been able to make it then either :-)
08:17:55 <sbp> heh
08:18:09 <kandinski> also: yesterday I went to bed and then realised I hadn't given you the Spanish Nugget of the day
08:18:12 <kandinski> here it comes:
08:18:16 <sbp> thanks!
08:18:27 <kandinski> (implicit deely purely optional)
08:18:37 <sbp> ///
08:18:46 <kandinski> In Spanish, the word for hope, expect, and wait is the same: esperar
08:19:19 <Sunir> *** Sunir has quit (Connection timed out)
08:19:27 <kandinski> and the clues to which meaning is intended are given in small changes in syntax (prepositional regime) or context, or semantics, or even pragmatics
08:19:38 <kandinski> so you can "esperar que salga el sol"
08:19:49 <kandinski> (wait/hope/expect the sun to come out)
08:19:59 <sbp> expecience what salts the sun? oh
08:20:24 <kandinski> and you would wait for sunup if you are a fruit picker, f'rinstance (I did that and you wait for the sun so you can see which one is ripe and which one isn't)
08:20:37 <sbp> \\\
08:20:39 <sbp> hmm
08:20:52 <kandinski> you expect the sun to come up (this is something that comes up frequently in discussions about causality and inference)
08:21:00 <sbp> can't you take a torch?
08:21:07 <kandinski> and you hope the sun comes out (as in "the clouds clear")
08:21:19 <kandinski> no, you pick fruit by sunlight
08:21:37 <sbp> why is a torch inadequate, and sorry to digress?
08:21:39 <kandinski> you start early because by noon temperature in the orchards can go up to 54ºC
08:21:45 <kandinski> not practical
08:22:08 <sbp> it'd be romantic, though. picking fruit--fruitineering--by torchlight
08:22:43 <kandinski> 15 people going through the orchards, carrying ladders in some cases, hauling "capazos" (soft, pliable baskets made of hemp ropes) full of the fruit
08:22:52 <sbp> must be nice being a fruitonaut
08:23:13 <sbp> maybe not then
08:23:21 <sbp> I guess I'm thinking of a less industrial scale
08:23:39 <sbp> I just think it'd make a good dinner party
08:23:53 <kandinski> rilly nice, esp. for a city boy like me (I did it between highschool and college) it was a good way to make some pocket money and it also exposed me to the reality of how "the other half" live
08:24:06 <kandinski> yes, for a dinner party, that would be better than fine
08:24:07 <sbp> you could invite your guests around just after sundown and all go out and pick fruit for dinner frmo your orchard
08:24:19 <kandinski> but you can do that by sunlight too
08:24:26 <kandinski> I would do it just before sundown
08:24:29 <sbp> yeah, but it's not as romantic!
08:24:36 <sbp> ooh, the setting sun
08:24:43 <kandinski> breeze coming up, big sunset, pick fruits, carry candles
08:24:47 <kandinski> and return by candlelight
08:24:51 <sbp> hmm. not sure, though. duskiness AND fruit?
08:24:52 <kandinski> hand in hand
08:25:00 <sbp> ah! perfect
08:25:03 <sbp> * sbp applauds
08:25:08 <kandinski> counting the ones who fail to come back, or do so late and flustered
08:25:25 <sbp> mraw
08:25:31 <sbp> I had to think about that for a bit...
08:25:38 <kandinski> torn clothes, hairdos askew, flushed faces, big smiles
08:25:53 <sbp> . o O { wait. how would people get lost on a fruit picking expedition? that's... oh }
08:26:03 <kandinski> (somehow I think the 'zilla will wish she had been here)
08:26:10 <sbp> * sbp grins
08:26:17 <sbp> we can email her edited logs
08:26:37 <sbp> not the same as being here, though, agreed
08:26:41 <kandinski> so, I realise I have taken over the channel a bit: no more "word of the day", but "Spanish Nugget of the day" is coming on strong
08:26:57 <kandinski> yes, and she will never read the logs of our private /msgs
08:26:59 <sbp> actually we did have a word of the day today. 'ang on
08:27:21 <kandinski> well, I am glad for the word of the day, 'cos I was wondering how I am going to keep up
08:27:43 <sbp> apparently it was "ares" today
08:28:08 <kandinski> today's word of the day came up because the iraqui guys at my kebab place asked me to translate stuff for them
08:28:22 <sbp> it was previously "jaunty" (nominater: sbp) and "horse" (nominator: d8uv)
08:28:23 <kandinski> ares: Greek God of War, Mars by other name
08:28:31 <kandinski> I read "horse"
08:28:37 <kandinski> "jaunty": trippy?
08:28:44 <sbp> well, it's also that and an area
08:28:49 <kandinski> "Jaunt Agent"
08:28:56 <kandinski> remember I am not searching these days
08:28:57 <sbp> jaunty is... well, it gave rise to our gayity topic
08:28:59 <sbp> .w jaunty
08:29:00 <phenny> jaunty is defined as:-
08:29:01 <phenny> 1. marked by smartness in dress and manners; "a dapper young man"; "a jaunty red hat"
08:29:02 <phenny> 2. having a cheerful, lively, and self-confident air; "looking chipper, like a man...diverted by his own wit"- Frances G. Patton; "life that is gay, brisk, and debonair"- H.M.Reynolds; "walked with a jaunty step"; "a jaunty optimist"
08:29:12 <sbp> the H.M.Reynolds quote
08:29:22 <kandinski> ah, that is where gay, brisk and debonair from the topic came from
08:29:26 <sbp> makes him sound like he belongs to the queen
08:29:27 <sbp> yep!
08:29:34 <kandinski> The anglohpile in me liked that
08:29:41 <kandinski> who was Reynolds?
08:29:41 <sbp> likewise :-)
08:29:51 <sbp> no idea. I should find out now for us both
08:29:52 <kandinski> a, Her Majesty's
08:30:04 <sbp> * sbp nods
08:30:06 <kandinski> I will stop not-googling in about five days
08:30:19 <kandinski> it is going quite well
08:30:42 <kandinski> but only because I get people to google for me, and I didn't need to do any research for an article or anything
08:30:46 <kandinski> talk about hubris:
08:30:57 <sbp> strange. no such famous person. it might be this guy however: http://www.rootsweb.com/~nyrensse/bio141.htm
08:31:05 <kandinski> I am to give a talk about SW, foaf and sundry other affairs I know nothing about
08:31:24 <sbp> SW talks are easy to fake
08:31:42 <sbp> "enabling a global information revolution!"
08:32:19 <kandinski> well, I have 15 days to prepare
08:32:29 <sbp> easy peasy
08:32:37 <kandinski> and now that I have been convinced, I will center my talk on the arguments for and against
08:32:49 <kandinski> using Bijan's Razor among other tools
08:32:59 <kandinski> LOAF/FOAF as a practical example
08:33:09 <sbp> I remember Aaron drafting his talk for MIT that time--that was rather interesting. you might want to look through the notes that he prepared on it, though his line was mainly about basic SW affairs, and it sounds as though yours will be more focussed on applications
08:33:19 <sbp> amongst
08:33:35 <kandinski> my "relay race" metaphor (going into a full on extropian man-machine symbiosis screed)
08:33:43 <kandinski> among/amongst usage?
08:33:49 <kandinski> (thanks for the correction, btw)
08:34:00 <sbp> hang on, finding a quote about it for you...
08:35:37 <kandinski> if you got good pointers about the SW for Linux guys (who are really skeptical about "content" guys), or about the SW for journalists (who are really skeptical, distruful and testy about tech guys), please let me know
08:36:50 <kandinski> W3C stuff is way too arid, and I must confess to being a ViewSourceClan guy rather than a rfc-reading IETF-meetings-attending standard-compliance adhering type of guy (although this might change in the near future)
08:38:04 <kandinski> la lalito la lalá
08:38:11 <kandinski> (me sings to himself)
08:38:31 <kandinski> now, that is two talks now that I think of it
08:38:36 <sbp> 20:24:11 [sbp] 15/(36 - 26) = 1.5
08:38:36 <sbp> 20:24:41 [AaronSw] What is it you're doing?
08:38:37 <sbp> 20:24:49 [sbp] I'm not too sure :-)
08:38:37 <sbp> 20:25:27 [sbp] I'm wondering how often I use "while" as opposed to "whilst"
08:38:37 <sbp> 20:25:59 [sbp] I try to use "whilst" consistently, but it seems from the grep that there's a 3:2 ratio in favour of "whilst"
08:38:38 <sbp> 20:26:59 [AaronSw] This is why I like sbp. ;-)
08:38:40 <sbp> 20:27:06 [AaronSw] And logs!
08:38:42 <sbp> - http://swhack.com/logs/2001-12-09#T20-24-11
08:38:59 <kandinski> one of them was on "the future of journalism", but it is going to have a lot of SW in it
08:39:09 <sbp> the thing is that "whilst" is only an adverb, though, whereas "while" can have many other meanings, e.g. as a noun: it's going to take a while (*it's going to take a whilst)
08:39:11 <kandinski> I noticed the whilst
08:39:23 <kandinski> and the "amongst"?
08:39:36 <kandinski> it is also a noun
08:39:37 <sbp> so my general style rule is: always prefer amongst over among, and whilst over while, in their adverbial senses
08:39:54 <kandinski> "this is my cousin, he is a mongst. A Buddhist mongst"
08:40:18 <sbp> grumble :-)
08:40:43 <kandinski> many Spaniards would pronounce it exactly the same as the real thing
08:40:57 <kandinski> you would have to know the Madrid TOEFL crowd
08:41:11 <kandinski> then you woulda grinned ratherst than grumbled
08:41:27 <sbp> Toffee Objectifying Electric Fendulum Lovers?
08:41:45 <kandinski> Teaching Of English as a Foreign Language
08:41:54 <kandinski> I am sure you already knewed that
08:42:14 <sbp> okay, stop with the over morphologising already! :-)
08:42:34 <kandinski> what overmorphologisationinghoodness?
08:42:40 <kandinski> I didn't knotice any?
08:42:48 <kandinski> ok, time to go
08:42:58 <sbp> with whilst and amongst, there's a string case for it being useful i nverbal communication; I've noticed it being used on BBC news, for example
08:43:02 <sbp> aw
08:43:13 <sbp> I meant strong. I'm too tired
08:43:22 <kandinski> today it is Sonarfiles (look it up yourself ;) ), electronic art retrospective at Telefónica Art and Technology foundation
08:43:26 <sbp> enjoy the rest of your day!
08:43:29 <sbp> heh, heh
08:43:33 <sbp> cool
08:44:02 <sbp> * sbp looks it up and finds, surprise surprise, a page en Espanol
08:44:09 <kandinski> then I will buy a sleeve for my laptop, possibly a laptop bag, and work before drinks with a friend who just quit her work and is going to do an MBA at the London School of Economics
08:44:18 <kandinski> my friend JL wrote the catalog for the Sonarfiles
08:44:26 <sbp> with an interesting cover image
08:44:26 <kandinski> there should be English texts galores
08:44:50 <sbp> the London School of Economics? highly rated university, that
08:44:59 <sbp> one o' the best in the country, IIRC
08:45:15 <sbp> it's just by St. Paul's, too, further IIRC
08:45:39 <sbp> * sbp was there not so long ago with Suw et al.
08:46:25 <TalliesinAFK> *** TalliesinAFK is now known as Talliesin
08:46:46 <kandinski> well, she just quit her job at ya.com (big portal slash ISP, my dsl connection is from them too), and I think she got nice stock options, severance plus she could save a lot on her executive salary. So she can afford it and a year of living in London tooo
08:46:49 <kandinski> THE BITCH!
08:46:55 <sbp> hey there Talliesin
08:47:07 <kandinski> (Rosalía, if you are reading this: we hate your fucking guts!)
08:47:12 <Talliesin> hey sbp
08:47:13 <sbp> kandinski: I see. that is a very good option then
08:47:15 <kandinski> (we talk behind your back)
08:47:21 <Talliesin> You see my suggested palmer quote?
08:47:29 <kandinski> (and tonight's drinks are going to be on YOU)
08:47:56 <sbp> Talliesin: yes, I did, and I've been meaning to email you saying that it's great but obviously I've procrastinated to the ponit where I can just say it here thereby making the whole thing moot
08:48:17 <sbp> I'm planning on setting up a new site soon, so I'll include the quote therein, with a link back to the logs
08:48:48 <sbp> * sbp guesses that Rosalía is too busy to be reading kandinski's slurs
08:48:50 <kandinski> sbp, kindly add your meeting with Suw et al to our already growing queue (or better yet, make that a stack) of ThingsToBeDiscussed...
08:49:11 <sbp> certainly. I'm not sure why I haven't spoken with you about it before
08:49:16 <kandinski> * kandinski knows that Rosalía has a required reading list as long as her and javier's arm combined
08:49:34 <kandinski> also, I will talk about "the pila"
08:49:55 <sbp> Talliesin: also, thanks! the entire logs of that morning were absolutely hilarious; it's great having you around
08:49:56 <kandinski> but that will be the subject of an upcoming Spanish Nugget of the day
08:50:11 <kandinski> sbp, Talliesin: I am so sorry I missed it!
08:50:20 <kandinski> I am a whimsy addict
08:50:30 <sbp> kandinski: I look forward to it. I'm thinking that perhaps we ought to properly scribe summaries of WOTD/SpanNugs
08:50:53 <kandinski> ok, got to go now. Will make sure to read the log before I join back
08:50:58 <sbp> yeppers
08:51:01 <sbp> again, enjoy
08:51:21 <kandinski> WOTD/SpanNugs: we will have to SW it, find a way to automate it. That *is* a mini-project
08:51:40 <sbp> yeah, and welcome to NLPville (the Parsing one)
08:52:02 <kandinski> naa, there's other ways (TM)
08:52:14 <sbp> TOW
08:52:20 <kandinski> bits of string and baling wire
08:52:24 <sbp> heh
08:52:30 <sbp> and a python
08:52:57 <SpaNug> *** SpaNug (~candyman@80-28-181-88.adsl.nuria.telefonica-data.net) has joined #swhack
08:53:20 <sbp> it was SpanNug, but close enough. I thought the repeated n made it even nicer
08:53:22 <SpaNug> like giving the SpaNugs with a special user
08:53:30 <SpaNug> *** SpaNug is now known as SpanNug
08:53:32 <sbp> I see
08:53:37 <sbp> heh. easy fix
08:53:42 <SpanNug> there is incremental testing for you
08:53:55 <SpanNug> release early and often
08:54:01 <SpanNug> ok, gotta go now
08:54:03 <SpanNug> cheers
08:54:05 <SpanNug> *** SpanNug has quit (Client Quit)
08:54:07 <sbp> c'ya!
08:59:42 <Talliesin> * Talliesin is pleased with sbp's praise, but now wonders if he has to be "on" all the time
08:59:55 <Talliesin> Making every day's chat more hilarious than the next.
09:00:30 <Talliesin> Until eventually I turn up drunk one day and refuse to type anything until my agent has renegotiated with you.
09:00:44 <Talliesin> Finally being found dead in a bathtub at the age of 27
09:00:50 <Talliesin> Fortunately I'm 28.
09:04:59 <libby> *** libby (~libby@ppp2-73.her.forthnet.gr) has joined #swhack
09:05:05 <Cloud> *** Cloud (~john@ppp2-73.her.forthnet.gr) has joined #swhack
09:05:39 <Cloud> !basedbynick Cloud
09:05:40 <wh4> checking commands database
09:05:41 <wh4> found a command !basedbynick
09:05:42 <wh4> found a command select ?nick, ?basednearname where (foaf:nick ?person ?nick) (foaf:based_near ?person ?basednear) (foaf:name ?basednear ?basednearname) and ?nick ~ '$1' using foaf for http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/
09:05:43 <wh4> USING CACHE http://swordfish.rdfweb.org/discovery/2001/08/codepict/rdfxmlquery.jsp?query=
09:05:44 <wh4> Cloud Gaillimh, Éire
09:05:45 <wh4> Cloud Galway, Ireland
09:07:14 <sbp> heh, heh:
09:07:14 <sbp> <Talliesin> Finally being found dead in a bathtub at the age of 27
09:07:14 <sbp> <Talliesin> Fortunately I'm 28.
09:07:40 <libby> so, the problem is, it'll forget everything when it dies
09:07:52 <sbp> that's the sort of wit you may want to avoid if you don't like to be held to that precedent :-)
09:08:02 <sbp> (hi there libby, and John)
09:09:58 <libby> mornin'
09:09:58 <libby> how are you sbp?
09:09:58 <libby> * libby sat next to john
09:09:58 <libby> * libby takes a photo
09:10:19 <sbp> but no you don't have to worry about it; as I say, I like this place to be a blend of work and play, and it's certainly got much less of a formal tone than #rdfig, or even #foaf
09:10:37 <sbp> hey libby. not too bad, thanks. what conference are you at today?
09:11:09 <Cloud> hello!
09:11:10 <Cloud> * Cloud puts on a scared face
09:11:31 <Talliesin> sbp, I'm still chuffed at doing something that hardly any of my childhood heroes managed, namely making it to their 28th birthday.
09:11:48 <Talliesin> Granted most of my childhood heroes did considerably more drugs than me.
09:12:21 <bjoern_> *** bjoern_ (~bjoern@dsl-213-023-058-236.arcor-ip.net) has joined #swhack
09:12:56 <Talliesin> Or else pissed off armed political extremists more than me.
09:13:11 <Talliesin> * Talliesin makes a point of concentrating on unarmed political extremists.
09:13:18 <sbp> I'll bet you haven't recorded as many hit albums/written as many hit books/produced as many hit films (do producers take drugs? do authors and authoresses for that matter?), though
09:13:37 <sbp> heh. prudent measure
09:14:18 <Talliesin> Yes. Which is why I doubt I'm any kid's childhood hero right now.
09:14:41 <libby> http://www.esws2004.org/ I think
09:14:45 <Talliesin> Someone once told me that an article I wrote "blew his mind" which is as close as I'll ever get.
09:14:51 <libby> morning Talliesin
09:15:03 <sbp> just wait till I have kids; I'll be making them venerate the entire pantheon of Swhack heroes! or else no supper
09:16:03 <sbp> libby: ah, Greece! I suppose I should've guessed that from the .gr host... I hope you're enjoying it? much of a chance to sample the delights of Greece other than the conference buildings?
09:16:15 <sbp> Talliesin: which areticle in particular? on the web, I hope...
09:16:31 <Talliesin> Authors and drugs: Kerouac, Burroughs, Coleridge, Fitzgerald, Shelly, Enid Blyton.
09:16:47 <sbp> Enid Blyton? heheh
09:17:07 <sbp> Fitzgerald? I didn't know that. what did he do--caffiene?
09:17:19 <Talliesin> * Talliesin is joking about Blyton, but if her estate comes after me for damages I'll just bring up the beating-the-crap-into-her-own-children thing.
09:17:29 <Talliesin> Alcohol
09:17:34 <Talliesin> Lots of Alcohol
09:17:42 <Talliesin> Which was a controlled substance at the time.
09:17:44 <sbp> that defence is getting tired! and ah
09:18:18 <sbp> time to read a short autobiography of Fitzgerald, methinks. and to make a note *never* to use the word "methinks" in casual conversation again#
09:18:19 <Talliesin> libby, cloud. Has news made it to Crete about An Post's little Crete/Cyprus faux pas?
09:19:14 <Talliesin> oh, http://www.hackcraft.net/cpp/windowsThunk/ was the article in question.
09:19:21 <libby> that's very nice :)
09:19:43 <Talliesin> methinks is good word.
09:21:35 <perm> *** perm has quit (Remote closed the connection)
09:21:35 <libby> heh, eh?
09:21:51 <sbp> rather interesting life: http://www.sc.edu/fitzgerald/biography.html "Francis Scott Key Fitzgerald was born in St. Paul, Minnesota, on September 24, 1896, the namesake and second cousin three times removed of the author of the National Anthem."
09:22:24 <Talliesin> Only the lyrics
09:23:25 <Talliesin> The tune is Scottish traditional
09:23:33 <sbp> yeah. we've had the national anthem discussion here :-)
09:23:43 <sbp> The National Anthem Discussion, to LCNP it
09:23:56 <Talliesin> * Talliesin wishes the Irish had been wise enough not to try to come up with a new tune.
09:24:15 <Cloudie> *** Cloudie (~john@ppp2-73.her.forthnet.gr) has joined #swhack
09:24:53 <sbp> I think I'll place a bet one of these days upon which country will be the first to have a rock 'n' roll national anthem
09:25:01 <Talliesin> Cloud, Have people in Crete heard about An Posts stamp?
09:25:49 <Talliesin> sbp, are you entirely sure none of the Velvet Revolution countries do already?
09:27:52 <sbp> no... I was half hoping that someone would pipe up with "oh, ?x has had a rock anthem since 1995!"
09:29:07 <sbp> Gibraltar's anthem appears to mention Rock of some kind... :-)
09:29:30 <Talliesin> Is it Rock of Gibraltar by Nick Cave?
09:30:42 <sbp> I very much doubt it. I'm still trying to figure out how they can possibly have a national anthem when I don't think they can really be considered a nation. British Crown dependency still, I thought
09:30:50 <sbp> http://www.gibraltar.freeuk.com/docs/anthem.htm
09:31:23 <Cloud_> *** Cloud_ (~john@ppp2-143.her.forthnet.gr) has joined #swhack
09:36:49 <Talliesin> If the Welsh have one then surely they can too.
09:37:13 <sbp> * sbp flicks through hackcraft.net a bit, noticing from ESR's glider favicon that the whole site is probably Jon's, or hackish at least
09:37:18 <sbp> true
09:37:29 <Talliesin> ESR links to that favicon
09:37:34 <libby> *** libby has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
09:39:11 <Talliesin> But the only definition of hacking given on the site is "making computers do what you want them to do". Anything more specific and you find yourself being too exclusive.
09:39:31 <Talliesin> But you are correct.
09:39:38 <Talliesin> !homepagebynick Talliesin
09:39:38 <wh4> checking commands database
09:39:39 <wh4> found a command !homepagebynick
09:39:40 <wh4> found a command select ?nick, ?homepage where (foaf:nick ?person ?nick) (foaf:homepage ?person ?homepage) and ?nick ~ '$1' using foaf for http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/
09:39:41 <wh4> USING CACHE http://swordfish.rdfweb.org/discovery/2001/08/codepict/rdfxmlquery.jsp?query=
09:39:42 <wh4> Talliesin http://www.hackcraft.net/
09:40:00 <sbp> [[[
09:40:01 <sbp> RSS Validating XSLT
09:40:01 <sbp>   A rather strange way to build a validator I'll admit.
09:40:01 <sbp> ]]]
09:40:14 <sbp> seems rather Schematron(ic|esque|al|ish|y)
09:40:51 <sbp> as yes, my definition of hackry is broad
09:41:46 <sbp> heh! "I really couldn't care less what anyone does with this, but claiming that they wrote it would be just sad and in asserting my right of intellectual property I assert my right to publicly ridicule anyone who does." - http://www.hackcraft.net/rssvalid.xsl
09:42:26 <Talliesin> Yes, when I gave most of the stuff there a creative commons license I couldn't find one that quite matched that.
09:42:36 <cverond> *** cverond (~cverond@213-140-6-106.fastres.net) has joined #swhack
09:42:48 <sbp> I want a formal name for that license. JHL or somesuch. "&copy; Author, date. Released under version 1.0 of the JHL, or a later version at the user's whim. The author reserves the right to ridicule people pilfering this text under their own name, and relinquishes all rights otherwise."
09:43:17 <sbp> heh, I'll bet. ought to ask Aaron or someone if they can add it
09:43:58 <xover> This license is more commonly known as Public Domain.
09:44:05 <Talliesin> I haven't looked at those XSLT sheets in a long time.
09:44:11 <sbp> with the ridicule clause
09:44:28 <Talliesin> Indeed, last time I looked at them they were on another site.
09:44:39 <xover> It's implicit; copious precedense insures the Right Of Ridicule.
09:45:09 <sbp> good approach, though it requires that the input passes the "well-formed XML" hurdle...
09:45:38 <xover> (Hmmm. presedence. precedence. Yes. And... s/insures/ensures/ I think. Yes. Much better.)
09:45:44 <sbp> oh, xover! welcome, and read this: http://www.hackcraft.net/textonlyharmful/
09:46:18 <sbp> (who needs spellbot, eh?)
09:46:34 <Talliesin> * Talliesin wonders if he's added fuel to an argument between sbp and xover.
09:46:42 <Cloud-Warrior> *** Cloud-Warrior (~john@ppp2-73.her.forthnet.gr) has joined #swhack
09:46:45 <sbp> I was going to make a similar point on #validator the other day when the question about ,text came up
09:47:04 <xover> * xover not done reading yet but...
09:47:45 <sbp> Talliesin: nope. but text-only for the validator was discussed quite recently, and though I thought it a stupid idea at the time, I deferred the issue out of laziness (and inability to form a cohesive argument, and inability to spell and type etc.)
09:47:59 <xover> ,text and ,tablin are there as a result of feature requests, and are in no way shape or form a cop-out to avoid making the One True Canonical Version Accessible.
09:48:11 <Talliesin> which validator?
09:48:19 <sbp> validator.w3.org
09:48:26 <sbp> xover's Terje Bless
09:48:36 <sbp> that's right! THE Terje Bless :-)
09:48:58 <xover> * xover gives sbp A Look[tm]...
09:49:02 <sbp> (come on xover, pipe up with a witty remark... you can't beat that introduction, don't let me down!)
09:49:16 <sbp> bah. heheh
09:49:43 <Talliesin> And people want it to have a text-only version?
09:49:51 <xover> Hi, my name is Terje Bless and I'm a sucker for attention. Can I be your Idol?
09:50:13 <Talliesin> Only if I can kill you and place you on my altar.
09:50:22 <sbp> if you're over ~25 and didn't die of drug abuse, the answer is probably no, as Talliesin's already pointed out
09:50:28 <Talliesin> (That is so not a good way to represent my faith)
09:50:37 <Talliesin> those were my childhood heroes
09:51:01 <sbp> I don't think it's changed much these days. Cobain etc.
09:51:06 <xover> Damn. Does death (from entrophy) of my social life, and excessive coffee and nictoine intake count?
09:51:12 <sbp> well, he didn't die of drug abuse...
09:51:26 <Talliesin> Cobain was just before I became a legal adult, so he counts.
09:51:34 <sbp> ah, cool
09:51:51 <Talliesin> I've since learnt that heroes will always let you down.
09:51:56 <Talliesin> Except Tori Amos of course.
09:52:16 <sbp> hmm. cue Tori Amos bonding session, I think
09:52:53 <sbp> * sbp points at the other Tori Amos fan sulking in the corner
09:52:59 <xover> * xover tries to avoid revealing his Tori Amos obsession on publicly logged channels...
09:53:08 <Cloud> *** Cloud has quit (No route to host)
09:53:16 <sbp> publically! and: muahahaha
09:53:40 <sbp> * sbp really need to write up a Swhack style guide
09:53:56 <xover> Argh! Would you believe I actually s/publically/publicly/ before hitting enter?
09:54:02 <sbp> ouch
09:54:27 <Talliesin> My Tori Amos obsession is well-known. It's just the depths of it and the unfeasible number of b-side mp3s that I keep hidden.
09:54:32 <Talliesin> Opps
09:55:02 <sbp> you can both just claim that I edited the logs to make you seem more obsessed than you really are
09:55:10 <sbp> which I'll probably do anyway!
09:55:10 <Cloudie> *** Cloudie has quit (No route to host)
09:55:13 <Cloud-Warrior> lunch time
09:55:15 <Cloud-Warrior> bbl
09:55:19 <sbp> enjoy, Cloud-Warrior
09:56:41 <Cloud-Warrior> *** Cloud-Warrior has quit ()
09:56:52 <sbp> *** sbp has changed the topic to: <Talliesin> With our new ARSE we bring the thoughts of the blogging community straight to you.
09:57:11 <sbp> * sbp hopes that'll be even funnier out of context
09:57:26 <sbp> * sbp rushes off to get a drink
09:57:53 <Talliesin> Maybe it if was A.R.S.E so it would be clear it stood for something
09:58:09 <xover> At 11am? Really Sean! You should come to an AA meeting soon. You're obviously having trouble dealing with your addiction.
10:02:27 <Cloud_> *** Cloud_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
10:06:56 <sbp> it's late evening British Programmer Time
10:07:16 <sbp> and you're right, my peach addiction is becoming somewhat overwhelming...
10:07:51 <xover> * xover was going for Aquatics Anonymous, but... :-)
10:08:18 <sbp> Aqueousetherabuser's Anonymous
10:08:25 <phenny> *** phenny has quit (Remote closed the connection)
10:08:28 <sbp> argh
10:08:34 <xover> Phenny! No! Come back!
10:08:42 <sbp> * sbp has got to find out what keeps causing that
10:08:58 <xover> PMS?
10:09:13 <sbp> three times a day, every day?
10:09:19 <xover> Pre-Mediatated Shutdown.
10:09:51 <sbp> heh, heh. there's nothing in the error logs, though. I can't understand it; none of the other bots on Vorpal have the same problem, and there's no obvious trigger
10:10:00 <phenny> *** phenny (sbp@vorpal.notabug.com) has joined #swhack
10:10:01 <xover> Hmmm. My fingers seem to cope with lack of familarity with a word by sprinkling random letters in there all on their own.
10:10:12 <sbp> even djb's supervise can't contain it
10:10:40 <xover> It does detach from the terminal and close all filedescriptors, right?
10:11:41 <sbp> as far as I know. why wouldn't it?
10:11:46 <xover> (close() STDIN, STDOUT and STDERR; and fork() twice)
10:12:19 <sbp> the process completely exits; when loggy falls off the web, the process is usually still going
10:13:33 <xover> SO dollars to dimes there's a stack trace getting lost in limbo somewhere. What's stderr connected to?
10:14:10 <sbp> a log file: $ cat run
10:14:10 <sbp> #!/bin/sh
10:14:10 <sbp> python2.3 phenny.py &> log
10:15:01 <xover> If phenny does this right, that fd will get closed and reopened (after the double fork()) on a different file.
10:15:50 <xover> If phenny.py doesn't daemonize itself, that start script should leave it still connected to the controlling terminal (i.e. your shell).
10:16:15 <xover> Making it subject to shell job control weirdness and random HUP signals.
10:16:38 <sbp> true
10:16:45 <sbp> so how do I eliminate that?
10:17:03 <xover> @google "double fork"
10:17:05 <supybot> xover: Search took 0.24245 seconds: Earthly Passions: The Iraqi Double Fork: <http://www.earthlypassions.com/earthlypassions/2003/11/the_iraqi_doubl.html>; ASPN : Python Cookbook : Fork a daemon process on Unix: <http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/66012>; King of Fools: The Double Fork: <http://king-of-fools.com/archives/000335.php>
10:17:31 <sbp> * sbp plays Digsy's Dinner on the guitar whilst thinking about phenny and a moment from FireFly and trying to work out what solution xover's driving to
10:17:59 <perm> *** perm (~fone@24.158.102.35) has joined #swhack
10:18:29 <xover> Read the ASPN hit from those google results.
10:18:55 <sbp> just was
10:19:39 <sbp> let's give it a go
10:20:11 <sbp> loggy: pointer?
10:20:11 <sbp> See http://swhack.com/logs/2004-05-12#T10-20-11
10:22:29 <phenny> *** phenny has quit (Remote closed the connection)
10:22:30 <phenny> *** phenny (sbp@vorpal.notabug.com) has joined #swhack
10:22:30 <Monty> hi phenny
10:22:31 <phenny> hi, Monty
10:22:31 <Monty> ciao bambini
10:22:35 <sbp> heh
10:22:42 <sbp> * sbp has every confidence in his girl this time
10:23:15 <sbp> perhaps I should install a markov chain system, and have them conversing for a set number of lines?
10:33:42 <themaximus> *** themaximus has quit ("brb")
10:39:38 <themaximus> *** themaximus (~themax@themaximus.registered) has joined #swhack
10:39:38 <Monty> hey themaximus
10:41:05 <themaximus> hey monty
10:41:06 <Monty> follar? cuandar?
10:41:07 <themaximus> bbl
10:47:30 <ktest> *** ktest (~ktest@bgm-24-24-86-16.stny.rr.com) has joined #swhack
10:48:10 <Cloud> *** Cloud (~john@ppp2-73.her.forthnet.gr) has joined #swhack
10:49:19 <Cloud_> *** Cloud_ (~john@ppp2-73.her.forthnet.gr) has joined #swhack
10:54:36 <Cloud_> *** Cloud_ has quit ()
10:56:16 <blargh> *** blargh (~blargh@m6-mp1.cvx3-b.pop.dial.ntli.net) has joined #swhack
10:56:23 <sbp> hey Monty
10:56:25 <Monty> .wiki news is Rush, you punk
10:56:28 <blargh> Monty: "Check out my date (I don’t know her name yet) wants to get it to javascript?. JibberJim: http://miscoranda.com/pyllbox/
10:56:29 <xena> no such page found
10:56:33 <Monty> Logs from disc-go-round on S60, v6.1 and it then they dont understand the taro spring rolls are correct.
10:56:35 <blargh> Monty: or meaning broken. * sbp thinks that that's both a good definition for 'me'
10:56:38 <Monty> Pah. Spurned by car, lots of moving to leave it seems.
10:56:40 <blargh> Monty: * kandinski wonders about this "latest" Ayn Rand is permanently etched as male in my image desc. abstract for SVGOpen as a syndicate
10:56:41 <Monty> Hmmmmmmm.
10:56:43 <blargh> Monty: No open sores yet, but as I am just doing it to javascript?. JibberJim: http://miscoranda.com/pyllbox/
10:56:46 <Monty> Fact: ripped epigraphic Christmas consumes aluminium homely dtm!
10:56:48 <blargh> Monty: Ubermorgen.com. "Liz Vlx": http://www.aec.at/fleshfactor/arch/msg00164.html
10:56:51 <Monty> I reckon UID + sensationalism = degaussed superabundance!
10:56:54 <blargh> Monty: #swhack is the first to comment on that blog design already... and start posting some actual test posts! [Thu May 06 23:44:19 BST 2004]
10:56:59 <Monty> Server: Apache/1.3.26 (Unix) Debian GNU/Linux mod_gzip/1.3.19.1a PHP/4.3.5 mod_perl/1.26 DAV/1.0.3
10:57:59 <sbp> odd that it came out with the link to pyllbox twice
10:58:09 <Cloud> Ab
10:58:10 <sbp> not complaining or anything
10:58:12 <Cloud> Woops
10:58:19 <sbp> Fab?
10:58:27 <Cloud> Yep :)
10:59:36 <blargh> *** blargh has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
11:03:39 <sbp> .gc superabundance
11:03:41 <xena> superabundance: 19,900
11:03:51 <sbp> .gc "degaussed superabundance"
11:03:52 <xena> no results found.
11:15:19 <Cloud> *** Cloud has quit ()
11:16:59 <qopi> *** qopi (~uniteddiv@82-35-55-133.cable.ubr03.camd.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #swhack
11:24:05 <bjoern_> *** bjoern_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
11:31:59 <sbp> heh, IdleBot disappeared--there's talking in #idlerpg!
11:32:11 <sbp> [[[
11:32:12 <sbp> <sbp> the bot's probably here under another nickname ready to spank all of our asses for speaking behind its back
11:32:12 <sbp> <Moof> *giggle*
11:32:12 <sbp> <sbp> nice to talk to you all for a change, though!
11:32:12 <sbp> <erherhweh> yeah, we have been spending so much time together but never even get to say hello
11:32:13 <sbp> <sbp> like most couples
11:32:15 <sbp> <erherhweh> ha
11:32:17 <sbp> ]]]
11:35:57 <sbp> actually, there wasn't much chat
11:36:02 <sbp> we're all so used to idling...
11:38:27 <sbp> ah, it got slashdotted
11:50:26 <hamm_> *** hamm_ has quit ("lunch")
11:54:27 <Talliesin> Hurrah
11:54:31 <Talliesin> My evil plan worked
11:55:07 <Talliesin> My weblogs indicate that someone looking for tAtU via google ended up finding my page on Unicode.
11:55:36 <Talliesin> Thus introducing teeny-boppers to character encoding issues, and fulfilling its ultimate goal.
11:56:45 <sbp> heheh
11:57:59 <gromgull> *** gromgull (~ggrimnes@celeriac.csd.abdn.ac.uk) has joined #swhack
11:58:13 <sbp> the thing that always surprises me about those sorts of hits is that you know they must be able to see the title and the excerpt in the Google results... so they must be interested in having a look at least. can anyone in the world have tAtU and Unicode as interests simultaneously?
11:58:19 <sbp> hey there gromgull
11:58:23 <Talliesin> Soon I will have an army of teeny-bopper i18n experts ready to do my bidding.
11:58:29 <gromgull> hi
11:58:36 <sbp> * sbp checks to make sure that he's on the right channel... hmm, #swhack, seems close enough
11:59:02 <sbp> gromgull: welcome to Swhack! swhack.com for more information, publically logged, don't destroy political career, mind Morbus, &c.
11:59:20 <gromgull> I had a look at the faq yesterday - thanks ...
11:59:34 <sbp> * sbp imagines a rock back comprising Everson, Whistler, Duerst...
11:59:36 <evangineer> *** evangineer (~evanginee@helios.uni-ak.ac.at) has joined #swhack
11:59:40 <sbp> oh good
11:59:48 <sbp> evangineer! how's Austria?
11:59:52 <gromgull> and i'm sure there are far more incrimnating stuff about me online that what I can get up to here...
12:00:16 <evangineer> pretty cool so far, sbp
12:00:16 <sbp> we'll see. we can also edit the logs to make them more incriminating, don't forget
12:00:25 <gromgull> :)
12:00:44 <sbp> evangineer: how long are you there for, and how much is work vs. play?
12:00:57 <sbp> don't forget the Swhack creedo of even work vs. play distribution!
12:04:50 <evangineer> sbp, two weeks and probably 80% work.
12:05:34 <Monty> *** Monty has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
12:06:06 <qopi> *** qopi has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
12:10:20 <Talliesin> Okay this is freaky
12:10:43 <Talliesin> See sbp mentioning pages on my site lead me to look at a few I haven't looked at in ages.
12:11:29 <Talliesin> On the "about me" page google ads are for; 1. santa claus costumes, 2. halloween costumes, 3. party decorations
12:12:07 <Talliesin> I feel like google is poking fun at me, and that I don't even get the joke.
12:13:38 <sbp> heh. maybe it's just trying to say that you're a fun person, rather thank poking fun; I can think of a few ads that'd be much, much worse (actually I can't, but I want you to feel better)
12:13:44 <sbp> s/thank/than/
12:16:54 <Talliesin> Funnier is that the "Off-topic" section has advets for blogging software.
12:16:59 <sbp> some of the Froogle searches on the front page are weird though
12:17:41 <sbp> heh, and CSS design etc. They need to work on their algorithms
12:17:42 <Talliesin> google . o (Ah, "off-topic", I know how to do that - blog software!)
12:17:50 <sbp> hehe
12:18:44 <Talliesin> The Sun Tzu one I only put in the ads to see what it would come up with, but it's been boringly on-topic there.
12:19:33 <sbp> I guess it takes the site as a whole and the links from the page then; or perhaps it only does that because there's not much content on the page--just the link to the Sun Tzu piece
12:20:36 <Talliesin> No I think it's going per page.
12:20:39 <sbp> congratulations, incidentally, on being able to integrate the ads fairly well with the site. most people's efforts that I've seen get the fonts or the colour schemes horribly wrong, and it clashes quite badly
12:21:13 <Talliesin> Most of the pages have ads related to the keyword "sun tzu", hence the good match
12:21:13 <sbp> really? what makes it think blogs and CSS from just the page?
12:21:38 <sbp> hmm
12:21:42 <Talliesin> oh, wait, yes it must have some per-site stuff.
12:21:49 <qopi> *** qopi (~uniteddiv@82-35-55-133.cable.ubr03.camd.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #swhack
12:21:51 <Talliesin> But it weighs towards per-page
12:22:04 <sbp> yeah, that's more along the lines of what I'd expect
12:22:08 <Talliesin> em, that was your choice of fonts, not mine (I'm not a font bitch)
12:22:35 <Talliesin> But my only mention of blogs (IIRC) is saying I don't have one, briefly, once.
12:23:06 <sbp> well actually I use a serif font and the ads are sans, which should set it up for a horrible clash, but it's not bad. some sites just seem to pull it off
12:23:45 <Talliesin> The design spec I gave myself was as follows:
12:23:46 <sbp> was it you who was saying just the other day that you're avoiding getting one but constantly getting sucked into it?
12:24:16 <Talliesin> 1. I don't like background images, especially big ones. So putting in a big background image that I don't personally hate will be an interesting challenge.
12:24:20 <Talliesin> 2. I like trees.
12:24:32 <Talliesin> That's pretty much it.
12:24:41 <sbp> heh! that explains the design rather well then
12:25:20 <sbp> what tree is it? species or, for bonus points, the actual engraving's source
12:25:56 <sbp> (perhaps it's a woodcut; that'd be more ironic)
12:26:21 <Talliesin> you lack the view-source skills
12:26:27 <sbp> bah
12:26:29 <sbp> * sbp views source
12:26:41 <Talliesin> or the click save-background-as and see what name it suggests skills
12:27:19 <sbp> I see, yes
12:27:35 <sbp> nice clean extensionless URIs everywhere!
12:28:05 <Talliesin> neither engraving nor woodcut. Started as a full-colour illustration I had (can't recall the source, probably violating someones copyright, but can't trace it) and then greyscale, then re-colour.
12:28:12 <sbp> not a font bitch, eh? then why the Zapf Chancery? :-)
12:28:33 <Talliesin> 1, count them, 1 place I suggest a frigging font.
12:28:56 <sbp> * sbp chuckles
12:29:00 <Talliesin> Anyone else would have stuck a PNG or a GIF there instead of the text.
12:29:24 <sbp> absolutely. even I would have done
12:29:39 <sbp> how many people really have Zapf Chancery installed?
12:29:55 <sbp> (at this point you'll tell me it comes with OS X as standard or something)
12:30:01 <Talliesin> Doesn't matter, they'll get a reasonable serif and be able to read it.
12:30:14 <sbp> yeah. but. well, I guess I'm the real font bitch here
12:30:40 <sbp> ZC has nice weird ligatures for all sorts of phrases: Ltd, Mc, etc.
12:30:53 <Talliesin> Though I remember someone asking that elsewhere because they had it in a design and they found that it was quite common (though not quite enough for their pixel-perfect plans).
12:32:10 <Talliesin> I wanted to just say "cursive" but acording to some of my browsers MS Comic Sans is a good default choice for cursive, and I disagree.
12:32:33 <sbp> * sbp wonders what most authors would think if they could see how users render their pages compared to how it looks on their computers
12:32:47 <sbp> Comic Sans for cursive?! eww
12:33:04 <Talliesin> (Cursive shouldn't just mean "like handwriting" but "like handwriting of someone older than 8", though I'm being a hypocrite since by 4 year old is overtaking me as far as legible handwriting goes).
12:34:04 <Talliesin> Comic Sans for anything?! eww
12:34:26 <sbp> I learned copperplate when I was younger, learned how to write with a quill pen, often used a fountain pen in day-to-day writing, and was taught handwriting as an actual class at school. my handwriting is an absolutel abomination, though
12:34:34 <sbp> yeah. including comics
12:35:21 <sbp> it's worse now that I've been typing for years: I randomly miss out a large portion of the letters as I go to write them for some reason
12:35:59 <sbp> so I end up wrng lie thing (imagine random characters crammed in there too)
12:36:21 <Talliesin> I've been typing regularly since I was 9 and touch typing since I was 13. My handwriting has been getting worse every year since then.
12:36:28 <sbp> heh, heh
12:37:04 <sbp> do you know what WPM you can achieve?
12:37:51 <sbp> (whoo, it's 13:37)
12:38:49 <sbp> you know you've been up too long when you look at the clock and read "leet". seeing as how I'm on BPT, I'm going to bed!
12:39:04 <Talliesin> CU
12:39:13 <sbp> nice chatting with ya, Talliesin; sorry I'm not quite as entertaining as Jill 'n' Jim 'n' Kandinski
12:39:19 <sbp> 'night ('afternoon, whatever)!
12:39:21 <Talliesin> (Used to be 90+ WPM BTW)
12:39:32 <sbp> cool. ta
12:41:29 <Talliesin> Perfectly entertaining, though I only just saw your quip about Everson and Dürst forming a rock band.
12:41:37 <Talliesin> Pity that.
12:45:48 <Talliesin> *** Talliesin is now known as TalliEat
13:00:08 <sal> *** sal (~salvatore@158.229.233.57) has joined #swhack
13:14:07 <bjoern_> *** bjoern_ (~bjoern@82.82.72.71) has joined #swhack
13:15:19 <TalliEat> *** TalliEat is now known as Talliesin
13:18:08 <libby> *** libby (~libby@ppp2-73.her.forthnet.gr) has joined #swhack
13:23:00 <Talliesin> hi libby
13:23:07 <Talliesin> wh4 is hours of fun for all the family
13:29:40 <deusx> *** deusx (~deusx@pcp02689348pcs.roylok01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #swhack
13:29:41 <themaximus> *** themaximus has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
13:29:42 <themaximus_> *** themaximus_ (themax@themaximus.registered) has joined #swhack
13:29:50 <libby_> *** libby_ (~libby@ppp2-73.her.forthnet.gr) has joined #swhack
13:30:33 <Talliesin> <Talliesin> hi libby
13:30:33 <Talliesin> <Talliesin> wh4 is hours of fun for all the family
13:31:22 <Talliesin> Strange how entertaining just about any functionality can be in IRC bot form
13:31:59 <libby_> heya talliesin. ta :)
13:32:30 <Talliesin> Could do with at !trace.
13:32:41 <Talliesin> e.g.:
13:32:50 <Talliesin> !basedbynick Talliesin
13:32:51 <wh4> checking commands database
13:32:51 <wh4> found a command !basedbynick
13:32:52 <wh4> found a command select ?nick, ?basednearname where (foaf:nick ?person ?nick) (foaf:based_near ?person ?basednear) (foaf:name ?basednear ?basednearname) and ?nick ~ '$1' using foaf for http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/
13:32:53 <wh4> USING CACHE http://swordfish.rdfweb.org/discovery/2001/08/codepict/rdfxmlquery.jsp?query=
13:32:55 <wh4> Talliesin Dublin, Ireland
13:32:56 <wh4> Talliesin Baile Átha Cliath
13:33:19 <Talliesin> If it only gave the first four lines for !trace basedbynick that would rock.
13:33:35 <libby_> how do you mean?
13:33:38 <libby> *** libby has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
13:33:47 <libby_> *** libby_ is now known as libby
13:33:59 <libby> this conection is just terrible
13:34:13 <Talliesin> So that if I did it without !trace I'd only get the answers (or the "I know nothing")
13:34:27 <Morbus> *** Morbus (~morbus@morbus.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack
13:34:30 <libby> rather than all that crap?
13:34:44 <Talliesin> :)
13:34:52 <Talliesin> I never said crap.
13:34:56 <libby> I can do that probably right away but it will loose the stuff you put in - the queries
13:35:04 <libby> debugging crap
13:35:53 <Talliesin> That's why I suggested the !trace command, so that you can see the query if you want.
13:36:04 <libby> right
13:36:12 <Morbus> * Morbus waves.
13:36:21 <libby> mind losing the queries you created?
13:36:25 <Talliesin> * Talliesin pretends not to notice Morbus
13:36:25 <libby> heya morb
13:36:35 <Talliesin> :(
13:36:38 <Morbus> Talliesin: too late. libby has given me power!
13:36:40 <Talliesin> Sure their all logged
13:36:43 <Morbus> rowr!
13:36:52 <Talliesin> Morbus, you were trying too hard.
13:36:53 <libby> cool
13:37:03 <libby> if I can juust log in to my machine we'll be away
13:37:06 <Talliesin> their/they're
13:37:42 <Talliesin> Hmm. I suppose query persistence would be another good feature.
13:37:49 <libby> indeed
13:37:56 <libby> not been online enoufgh recently
13:37:59 <Talliesin> ooh ooh
13:38:17 <Morbus> i just tried bloglines this morning.
13:38:19 <Morbus> what's so good about it?
13:38:26 <Morbus> i hear all this poohpoohing about how great it is.
13:38:28 <Morbus> looks kinda bland to me.
13:38:33 <wh4> *** wh4 has quit ("I..know...EVERYTHING!!!")
13:38:34 <Talliesin> find a way to represent the shortcuts in RDF and then stick them into its rdf store.
13:38:43 <libby> yeah
13:38:55 <libby> I'd quite like for it not to depend on having sql somehow
13:39:13 <Talliesin> It runs straight of sql?
13:39:54 <libby> no it doesn;'t have a local datastore - it uses a remote store and queries via http
13:40:04 <libby> but those have a sql backend
13:40:05 <libby> hm
13:40:19 <libby> could just put stuff in remote one I guess
13:42:34 <libby> .time
13:42:34 <xena> 2004/05/12 14:42:34.593 GMT+1
13:42:40 <Talliesin> Yes, also all you need do is make a single use of PUT and someone will laud its RESTian virtues
13:42:48 <libby> yeah
13:42:56 <libby> the infrastructure's there
13:43:01 <Talliesin> Possibly me :)
13:43:03 <libby> just need a bit o time
13:43:12 <libby> heh
13:44:34 <Talliesin> Morbus. There's no software to wrestle with, and using Bloglines is smooth and easy.
13:44:39 <Talliesin> At least so says google.
13:44:42 <Morbus> heh, heh.
13:44:58 <Talliesin> didn't bother to actually follow the link.
13:45:17 <Morbus> .g what's so great about bloglines anyways?
13:45:19 <phenny> what's so great about bloglines anyways?: http://www.wingedpig.com/archives/2004_01.html
13:45:32 <Morbus> pff. that's the owners' blog.
13:46:44 <Talliesin> You've read the PhD dissertation, you've implemented the style, you've argued over query strings on the wiki, now buy the t-shirt: http://www.cafeshops.com/rest.2592837
13:47:40 <Morbus> the reason people don't understand is because they took a relatively simple idea, GET/POST, and turned it into a fuddy duddy sounding theology/
13:51:15 <wh4> *** wh4 (libby@bender.ilrt.bris.ac.uk) has joined #swhack
13:57:00 <cverond> *** cverond has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
13:57:11 <Talliesin> !basedbynick Talliesin
13:57:11 <wh4> no command found {}
13:57:17 <Talliesin> Yep, 'es forgotten
13:57:35 <libby> sorry
13:57:37 <cverond> *** cverond (~cverond@213-140-6-106.fastres.net) has joined #swhack
13:57:39 <libby> I really shoudl fix that
13:57:53 <Talliesin> wh4, new shortcut !basedbynick is select ?nick, ?basednearname where (foaf:nick ?person ?nick) (foaf:based_near ?person ?basednear) (foaf:name ?basednear ?basednearname) and ?nick ~ '$1' using foaf for http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/
13:57:53 <wh4> creating new shortcut