00:00:15 <Morbus> NP: 'All Mine' from Portishead's album 'PNYC'; Unrated; http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00000GB24/disobeycom/
00:02:54 <kandinski> I am not completely back, you know
00:03:04 <kandinski> I have two classes tomorrow and thursday in Cuenca
00:03:14 <kandinski> and I have no clean underwear
00:04:28 <d8uv> kandinski: Clean socks?
00:04:43 <kandinski> none
00:04:43 <sbp> yeah. if you have socks and an elastic band, that suffices
00:04:56 <sbp> * sbp can tell that d8uv is from the same class as him, more or less
00:04:57 <kandinski> all in my lost suitcase
00:05:12 <sbp> hmm. you can't strap the suitcase around you either then...
00:05:12 <kandinski> I have been known to use the socks and elastic band trick for comic effect
00:05:17 <sbp> heh, heh
00:05:24 <kandinski> but this is serious
00:05:42 <kandinski> unless I can find a big enough rubber red nose
00:06:20 <d8uv> And sbp, no. I was thinking ducttape.
00:06:48 <d8uv> Sorry we aren't of the same class.
00:07:03 <redmonk> *** redmonk has quit ("Quitting")
00:07:09 <sbp> oh well
00:09:01 <d8uv> I can only think of fashioning papertowel diapers at this time, kandinski.
00:10:56 <d8uv> Sorry
00:12:16 <sbp> sellotape and marker pen
00:14:03 <evangineer> * evangineer wonders if there is an equivalent to a 24 hr Tesco/Asda in kandinski's neighbourhood
00:14:14 <kandinski> I am splurging out on jockey shorts, tee shirts and socks tomorrow first thing in the morning
00:14:20 <kandinski> but I would have rather done laundry
00:14:35 <evangineer> * evangineer nods understandingly
00:20:02 <kandinski> no, not anything
00:20:12 <kandinski> I got a 24 hour convenience store
00:20:18 <kandinski> but I live in the center
00:20:25 <kandinski> think leicester Square in London
00:22:34 <themaximus> *** themaximus has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:26:12 <themaximus> *** themaximus (~themax@themaximus.registered) has joined #swhack
00:27:44 <themaximus> *** themaximus has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:28:42 <themaximus> *** themaximus (~themax@roc-24-169-188-175.rochester.rr.com) has joined #swhack
00:29:26 <bjoern_> *** bjoern_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:30:40 <themaximus_> *** themaximus_ (themax@themaximus.registered) has joined #swhack
00:33:39 <evangineer> * evangineer is lucky enough to have both a 24hr Tesco and Asda within walking distance.
00:33:46 <evangineer> when I'm back in london that is
00:34:38 <d8uv> I have a 2 24 hr Willams Expresses and 1 texaco station within walking distance.
00:36:42 <kandinski> d8uv, I have three museums full of 16th century paintings to XXIst century installation art within walking distance... but I would have to walk in my grungy underwear from walking in the Barcelona heat and sitting around in a fucking airport because there is no way to buy anything until tomorrow
00:40:13 <d8uv> There are moose here.
00:40:15 <d8uv> I WIN!
00:43:30 <kandinski> if there is clean underwear for sale at the Williams Express or Texaco, you had already won
00:44:05 <themaximus_> *** themaximus_ has left #swhack
00:55:10 <Sunir> *** Sunir has quit (Connection timed out)
01:03:21 <Morbus> *** Morbus has quit ("http://disobey.com/")
01:16:46 <themaximus> *** themaximus has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:17:06 <themaximus> *** themaximus (~themax@roc-24-169-188-175.rochester.rr.com) has joined #swhack
01:27:09 <kandinski> güel
01:27:11 <kandinski> Manuel
01:27:19 <kandinski> I am gone
01:32:31 <kandinski> bye all
01:32:47 <UnknownQ> later kandinski
01:33:52 <UnknownQ> no matter how hard i try i can't see what's so offensive about the results for "jew" on google
01:37:37 <d8uv> The second or so result is anti-semitic.
01:37:43 <d8uv> Which is dumb.
01:38:12 <deltab> fourth of the results I see
01:38:53 <UnknownQ> meh.
01:39:01 <UnknownQ> not really google's fault
01:42:25 <Sunir> *** Sunir (~Sunir@67.71.131.59) has joined #swhack
01:48:02 <Morbus> *** Morbus (~morbus@pool-68-237-133-120.man.east.verizon.net) has joined #swhack
01:52:32 <evangineer> *** evangineer has quit ("overdue for some kip!")
02:04:35 <xover> Oh for crying out loud... The search results were "disturbing"?
02:05:39 <UnknownQ> xover, meh?
02:06:48 <xover> There's a big brouhaha over the results of searching for "jew"; to the point that Google inserts a link with an "explanation", and Sergey Brin is writing letters to the ADL.
02:07:11 <UnknownQ> yeah, i was talking about that a couple minutes ago
02:07:48 <UnknownQ> really funny stuff
02:07:54 <xover> Yeah, I only saw it in the scrollback and had to have alook at what it was all about.
02:08:56 <UnknownQ> guess what time it is?
02:09:01 <UnknownQ> futurama time!!!
02:09:02 <UnknownQ> whoo!!!
02:09:06 <xover> :-)
02:10:29 <xover> Hmmm. Searching for "linux GPL" on Google returns some results that are very disturbing to me.
02:10:58 <UnknownQ> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!
02:11:10 <UnknownQ> make them go away!
02:11:21 <xover> I mean those petty peddlers of FUD from Utah are ranked fifth in the results!
02:11:29 <UnknownQ> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!
02:11:35 <Ash> hey now
02:11:37 <Ash> it's not utah's fault
02:11:38 <xover> And there's no personalized note from Sergey there to reassure me that it's not intentional!
02:11:44 <xover> Sorry Ash. :-)
02:11:54 <UnknownQ> what about the mormons?
02:11:57 <Ash> * utah stabs xover for even making a link
02:12:23 <xover> s/from Utah/who are presently squatting in the otherwise wonderfull state of Utah/
02:12:24 <Ash> what about them?
02:13:03 <Ash> unknownq
02:13:19 <UnknownQ> ok, nevermind... decided not to make a religious joke because it's one of the few religions i'm not involved in/descended from
02:13:28 <Ash> heh heh
02:13:31 <UnknownQ> so i would just be a jerk
02:13:51 <UnknownQ> and plus Ash is sounding like he's a mormon, and he could kick my as--butt...
02:13:59 <Ash> heh heh
02:14:04 <xover> * xover feels absolutely no compunctions about makeing jokes about any and all religions...
02:14:21 <Ash> well, I don't care about mormon jokes, but i resent any link between sco and mormons
02:14:23 <UnknownQ> even when talking about utah?
02:14:24 <Ash> heh
02:14:34 <UnknownQ> so are you a mormon?
02:14:37 <Ash> yep
02:14:52 <UnknownQ> mental note to self: no mormon jokes
02:15:13 <UnknownQ> we will have to talk theology later on (i'm a baptist)...
02:15:14 <xover> * xover makes mental note to self; Ash will probably appreciate a good mormon joke better than most...
02:15:53 <UnknownQ> i actually don't think i know Ash very well...
02:16:26 <UnknownQ> Ash, have i talked to you (much) before?
02:16:31 <Ash> I don't think so
02:16:43 <Ash> :)
02:16:44 <Ash> hehe
02:16:55 <UnknownQ> see! so i don't know if he's all sensative or not...
02:17:15 <UnknownQ> i've offended many people in my day
02:18:07 <Ash> i'm not sensitive
02:18:15 <Ash> * Ash old school ircer
02:18:30 <Ash> plus i'm a bofh
02:18:37 <UnknownQ> heh... i'm gonna tell the ladies that you aren't sensitive!
02:18:42 <UnknownQ> then what?
02:18:53 <UnknownQ> no ladies for you!
02:19:07 <Ash> sensitive on irc, that is
02:19:09 <Ash> flame proof
02:19:31 <Ash> also, i'm married and have kids, so i don't care what you tell the ladies :D
02:19:43 <xover> Women spent the 1990s making men sensitive wimps; they'll be busy the next decade complaining that there aren't any straight men out there...
02:20:13 <UnknownQ> heh, good call xover...
02:20:38 <Ash> heh
02:21:10 <UnknownQ> anybody want to loan/give me three grand?
02:21:27 <xover> Sure. Hang on while I get out my pggy bank...
02:21:37 <UnknownQ> i want a kick as--butt powerbook
02:22:34 <xover> "kickAshsButt powerbook"?
02:23:03 <UnknownQ> that will make me look sensitive, but manly at the same time! however i will also be impotent from all the spooky "computer-rays" being pumped into my lap...
02:23:41 <xover> Hey, don't even kid about that!
02:24:07 <UnknownQ> luckily Ash has already produced offspring...
02:24:15 <UnknownQ> the geek line goes on!
02:24:19 <xover> The original TiBook had a problem in European versions; when the power was pluggen in it would give you an electric shock through the chassis!
02:24:32 <UnknownQ> crap... that sucks
02:24:37 <Morbus> *** Morbus has quit ("http://disobey.com/")
02:24:39 <Ash> i get shocks from my ibook on occasion
02:24:46 <Ash> but not from this monster dell that i just got from work
02:24:52 <xover> Putting that thing on your lap is seriously begging to get sterile.
02:24:57 <Ash> what thing
02:24:59 <Ash> dell?
02:24:59 <Ash> heh
02:25:14 <xover> The TiBook... Well, or the Dell I suppose, but for different reasons. :-)
02:25:46 <UnknownQ> anybody wanna loan me 4.5k? (i added all the fancy trimmings, including an ipod)
02:26:20 <xover> The radioactive radiation from the pureevilonium of Microsoft is bound to but a put a dent in your sperm count.
02:26:54 <UnknownQ> yup... that would kill ya
02:27:04 <UnknownQ> any laptops linux friendly?
02:27:17 <Ash> I don't use free unixes on laptops
02:27:28 <Ash> if you have an x86 laptop, you run windows xp
02:27:33 <UnknownQ> just captured unixes?
02:27:40 <Ash> even though it sucks, it's better than using linux
02:27:50 <UnknownQ> my one friend actually used to run linux on his laptop...
02:27:58 <Ash> i just have a native partition set aside for freebsd and boot it while windows is up and running
02:28:11 <UnknownQ> whoa! now you are offending my back up religion (linux)!
02:28:24 <xover> Well, the Dell is pretty nice except for two issues; 1) the wireless down't have OSS drivers, and 2) it's ACPI only so powermanagement don't work too well under Linux.
02:28:27 <UnknownQ> actually it's more just like anti-microsoft religion
02:28:42 <Ash> luckily freebsd's ACPI seems fine
02:28:45 <Ash> basically i dualboot
02:28:53 <Ash> but i am also doing lots of weird security stuff so i need windows
02:29:08 <UnknownQ> security stuff... windows...
02:29:12 <UnknownQ> are you crazy???
02:29:28 <Ash> erm.
02:29:43 <Ash> as in 'disassembling windows code'
02:29:51 <UnknownQ> that sounds like a loony "erm."
02:29:59 <Ash> and such
02:30:06 <xover> Give it a couple of months and get a Centrino model; that should give both Centrino wireless drivers and ACPI time to mature in Linux.
02:30:10 <Ash> basically I get windows and freebsd at the same time on one machine
02:30:15 <Ash> so it's perfect
02:30:33 <UnknownQ> hmm...
02:30:46 <UnknownQ> i should run freebsd
02:30:47 <UnknownQ> but i don't
02:30:50 <Ash> well
02:30:51 <Ash> yeah
02:30:54 <Ash> because linux sucks
02:31:01 <Ash> :-D
02:31:05 <UnknownQ> i'll kill you! with this stick!
02:31:09 <Ash> uh huh
02:31:22 <UnknownQ> wish i had a stick...
02:31:27 <xover> * xover read that as "I'll kill you! With this schtick!"... :-)
02:32:06 <UnknownQ> wish i had a schtick...
02:33:06 <xover> Hmmm. You looked at OpenBSD lately Ash?
02:33:19 <Ash> xover: every time i install OpenBSD i want to stab an openbsd developer
02:33:19 <UnknownQ> hey, who's playing with inferno? (plan 9's succesor)
02:33:35 <xover> Right. About as expected then. :-(
02:33:38 <Ash> not to say that it's bad
02:33:43 <Ash> it's just that it's irritating
02:33:46 <Ash> nice stuff comes from openbsd
02:33:48 <Ash> (pf comes to mind)
02:34:17 <xover> * xover wants the security of OpenBSD, without the OpenBSD...
02:34:35 <Ash> OpenBSD isn't *that* much more secure than FreeBSD
02:34:40 <xover> I *like* Theo's attitude towards security....
02:34:46 <Ash> especially since FreeBSD has added some of the nice TrustedBSD features
02:34:53 <Ash> ACL's, securelevel, etc
02:35:36 <xover> * xover is currently suffering through Red Hat's adoption of SELinux in Fedora Core....
02:35:43 <Ash> ouch
02:35:49 <xover> ...and it ain't a pretty sight I can tell you right now.
02:35:49 <Ash> suffering through fedora core is more like it
02:35:55 <Ash> all the linux distros totally suck unfortunately
02:36:31 <UnknownQ> * UnknownQ wonders why he's running linux
02:36:36 <xover> No, I'm basically in love with Fedora other than the bits that are currently broken.
02:36:59 <Ash> their whole process is just broken
02:37:04 <xover> yes
02:37:12 <Ash> i mean, all linux distros have that issue
02:37:20 <Ash> totally bizarre
02:37:25 <UnknownQ> process?
02:37:38 <xover> Hmmm. No. I don't ... yeah, what UnknownQ said. :-)
02:38:32 <d8uv> Yeah. I can't tell the difference between the unices.
02:38:52 <xover> "All you guys look the same to me"
02:39:09 <UnknownQ> you people sounds better/worse
02:39:21 <xover> Ash? The "process"?
02:39:26 <Ash> development process
02:39:38 <xover> EXPN?
02:40:40 <Ash> the way the OS is developed
02:41:06 <Ash> FreeBSD has had a very consistent development process forever
02:41:15 <Ash> whereas all the linux distros are still trying to figure things out it seems
02:41:25 <Ash> so freebsd releases tend to be higher quality and cause much less disruption
02:41:43 <Ash> anyway can't discuss further, busy
02:41:43 <Ash> brb
02:41:55 <xover> Bah! Cop-out! :-)
02:42:23 <Ash> i wish, i'm sick of dealing with this crap
02:42:24 <Ash> in fact
02:42:26 <Ash> IT'S LINUX CRAP
02:42:27 <Ash> ARGH
02:42:40 <Ash> http://imagestream.com/ <- their stuff
02:42:44 <Ash> back in a while
02:42:47 <Ash> iconifying you lot
02:43:05 <xover> * xover enjoys beeing an Icon...
02:44:02 <d8uv> Hmm...
02:44:02 <d8uv> http://people.freebsd.org/~murray/bsd_flier.html
02:45:17 <xover> I think ole Murray needs to check his facts.
02:46:30 <d8uv> Yeah, it seems really outdated
02:46:37 <xover> Heh. It talks about the Linux kernel in the future tense. :-)
02:47:04 <xover> Uhm. "...about the Linux *2.4* kernel..." even...
02:48:58 <d8uv> Also: http://lists.isb.sdnpk.org/pipermail/plug-list/2001-June/000078.html
02:54:33 <thelsdj> FUCK
02:55:21 <d8uv> Yes, thelsdj?
02:55:59 <thelsdj> nothing, just needed to say that, i feel better now
02:59:34 <d8uv> Whoohoo! I love e-mail!
02:59:34 <d8uv> [[[
02:59:36 <d8uv> My name is Jen and I'm new to this dating thing. I've checked out your profile you put up and it's interesting. =) I just want to get to know you a little better if you don't mind, come check my profile out at:
02:59:36 <d8uv> www.livejen.com/chat.html
02:59:37 <d8uv> I also got a webcam so we can make it interesting, anyways hope you get back to me.
02:59:39 <d8uv> bye :)
02:59:41 <d8uv> ]]]
03:00:02 <d8uv> I AM 2 GO GTE FRESH WID DA LADYS
03:02:38 <d8uv> Hmm, perhaps it was Margarito Floyd who set me up.
03:02:38 <d8uv> [[[
03:02:47 <d8uv> Are you interested in finding a woman that is interested in sex? Sick of going out with these women who think that sex is only for marriage? I'm with you!
03:02:47 <d8uv>
03:02:47 <d8uv> Over the past three years, we have matched hundreds of thousands of people around the WORLD together! Who can we match you with?
03:02:48 <d8uv> ]]]
03:02:54 <d8uv> THANK YOU MYSTERY WOMAN!
03:05:54 <xover> IBM's Memorandum in Opposition to SCO's Motion to Amend the Scheduling Order (The Gloves Come Off!): http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20040518130243366
03:05:55 <swhacker> posted 348
03:06:48 <xover> 348: «[IBM] is salivating to get to trial[…]»
03:11:15 <Ash> hi, yawn
03:11:17 <Ash> oh goodness.
03:11:20 <Ash> please die groklaw
03:11:23 <Ash> i hate damn paralegals
03:11:48 <Ash> and i hate that people are still even paying attention to this sco thing
03:11:50 <Ash> heh heh
03:11:53 <Ash> have i already had this rant?
03:11:54 <xover> Well, if they're cute...
03:12:32 <Ash> is the groklaw person cute or something?
03:12:46 <xover> No idea.
03:13:19 <xover> Come to think of it I'm not even sure it's a girl.
03:13:37 <Ash> it is a girl, iirc
03:14:19 <xover> Right. Pamela Jones. PJ.
03:20:41 <eikeon> *** eikeon has quit (Success)
04:08:55 <xover> Book Premise: [[[
04:09:01 <xover> The Future. The Human Apotheosis to a state where consciousness exists as an information construct in “cyberspace” has ocurred.
04:10:28 <xover> Humanity has existed solely as virtual beeings for a (subjectively) long time. A former corporeal existence is barely even an obscure myth.
04:11:30 <xover> What religeous creation theories will crop up? What will the Creationism vs. Evolutionist debates be?
04:12:36 <xover> Given a single or a few main religeons (the equivalents of Judeo-Christian, Muslem, etc.); what will they look like? What will their Holy Books be?
04:12:39 <xover> ]]]
04:13:15 <xover> I'll expect an outline and two sample chapters on my desk by Monday. :-)
04:56:36 <redmonk> *** redmonk (~steve@ip68-104-177-198.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #swhack
05:25:07 <redmonk> *** redmonk has quit ("Quitting")
05:29:21 <uberfunk> *** uberfunk has left #swhack
05:43:18 <Sunir_> *** Sunir_ (~Sunir@67.71.131.59) has joined #swhack
05:49:58 <Sunir> *** Sunir has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
06:16:19 <Sunir_> *** Sunir_ is now known as Sunir
06:22:13 <Sunir> *** Sunir has quit ("Leaving")
06:48:31 <sam__> *** sam__ (~sam@pool-68-163-29-208.phil.east.verizon.net) has joined #swhack
06:49:42 <UnknownQ> *** UnknownQ has quit (Connection timed out)
07:12:51 <kandinski> help with English appreciated from a native Brit speaker
07:13:08 <kandinski> which one is the right email answer to "> let me know"
07:13:13 <kandinski> "I just did"
07:13:15 <kandinski> or
07:13:21 <kandinski> "I just have"
07:13:23 <kandinski> ??
07:14:43 <xover> Neither. The correct response is «Learn to fucking read you dipshit. Now FOAD!». :-)
07:21:32 <xover> (But note that if this is to your boss and gets you fired, or your girlfriend and gets you dumped, I take zero responsibility!) :-)
07:22:12 <kandinski> and you are a native Brit speaker since Norway was incorporated into Britain when?
07:22:46 <xover> Exactly. IANAL, and neither am I a Native British Speaker.
07:24:57 <kandinski> but you really are very ANAL, as shown by the photographs i just downloaded from your computer
07:28:52 <xover> Drunken typing again? At this time of day?
07:29:06 <kandinski> not quite
07:29:11 <kandinski> sleep-drunk, at any rate
07:29:21 <xover> * xover knows the feeling...
07:29:29 <kandinski> I have been averaging 4 hours sleep for the last two weeks
07:29:37 <kandinski> I am guttered and knacked
07:29:48 <kandinski> and I still have a couple more weeks to go at this clip
07:30:37 <xover> Ugh!
07:32:05 <xover> * xover wonders what this enforced insomnia is due to, but won't ask as he has to leave for work and can't stick around to hear the answer...
07:52:52 <woundown> *** woundown has quit (Remote closed the connection)
08:03:54 <woundown> *** woundown (~woundown@u121n229.hfx.eastlink.ca) has joined #swhack
08:46:50 <sbp> *** sbp has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
08:47:14 <sbp> *** sbp (sbp@vorpal.notabug.com) has joined #swhack
09:12:48 <sbp-> *** sbp- (sbp@vorpal.notabug.com) has joined #swhack
09:12:52 <sbp> *** sbp has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
09:13:44 <sbp-> *** sbp- is now known as sbp
09:44:40 <bjoern_> *** bjoern_ (~bjoern@213.23.52.98) has joined #swhack
09:44:41 <Monty> hi bjoern_
10:02:17 <evangineer> *** evangineer (~evanginee@helios.uni-ak.ac.at) has joined #swhack
10:07:03 <Talliesin> *** Talliesin (~talliesin@213.94.193.50) has joined #swhack
10:30:52 <Code_Poet> *** Code_Poet (~talliesin@213.94.193.50) has joined #swhack
10:30:58 <Talliesin> *** Talliesin has quit (Nick collision from services.)
10:31:03 <Code_Poet> *** Code_Poet is now known as talliesin
10:31:37 <talliesin> *** talliesin is now known as Talliesin
10:33:51 <Talliesin> *** Talliesin has changed the topic to: Monty ate my homework
11:05:11 <kandinski> .seen jillzilla
11:05:12 <xena> jillzilla seen in #swhack saying: [ [off] heh ] ~ 12 hr(s) 17 min(s) 35 sec(s) ago
11:05:46 <kandinski> monty, tell jillzilla to contact kandinski about something work-related, please
11:05:47 <Monty> kandinski: Okay, I'll tell jillzilla that next time I see them...
11:10:55 <Talliesin> *** Talliesin has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
11:18:48 <Talliesin> *** Talliesin (~talliesin@213.94.193.50) has joined #swhack
11:21:19 <Talliesin> :(
11:21:27 <Talliesin> Not managing to keep connected.
11:37:12 <Talliesin> *** Talliesin has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
11:50:41 <deusx> *** deusx has quit ("Quitting")
11:56:09 <Talliesin> *** Talliesin (~talliesin@213.94.193.50) has joined #swhack
11:57:07 <evangineer> *** evangineer has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
11:59:57 <evangineer> *** evangineer (~evanginee@helios.uni-ak.ac.at) has joined #swhack
11:59:58 <Monty> hi evangineer
12:04:54 <Talliesin> More installing...
12:04:59 <Talliesin> Nothing to do but talk to Monty.
12:05:01 <Monty> prefers Rupert Murdoch!
12:05:16 <Talliesin> Oh, I'd have some choice things to say to him alright.
12:05:35 <Talliesin> But Monty has fewer bodyguards.
12:05:36 <Monty> Right...
12:06:40 <kandinski_> *** kandinski_ (~candyman@80-28-181-88.adsl.nuria.telefonica-data.net) has joined #swhack
12:08:33 <Talliesin> Even monty has little to say today.
12:08:36 <Monty> I reckon man + oesophagus = anchored xtamago!
12:10:30 <Talliesin> Is monty including the oesophagus men already have?
12:10:31 <Monty> Please go on.
12:11:37 <Talliesin> *** Talliesin has changed the topic to: #swhack. The new scent for a man, or for a woman.
12:15:07 <kandinski_> Talliesin, were those your two scents on this topic?
12:16:09 <Talliesin> Hmm.
12:16:17 <Talliesin> I think I prefer Monty.
12:16:20 <Monty> I reckon roadsigns + wicks = striped Wowzers.
12:16:28 <Talliesin> Okay, maybe not.
12:16:45 <Talliesin> *** Talliesin has changed the topic to: #swhack. Welcome to the right-hand side of the bellcurve.
12:17:41 <kandinski> ah
12:17:57 <kandinski> bella curva, realmente
12:18:03 <kandinski> (for verbosus)
12:18:32 <Talliesin> What can we see out the office window today children?
12:18:47 <Talliesin> Why, we can see a bunch of yobs beating the crap out of each other.
12:19:35 <Talliesin> Jeez, the place was covered in Gardai a few minutes ago.
12:36:15 <Code_Poet> *** Code_Poet (~talliesin@213.94.193.50) has joined #swhack
12:36:50 <Talliesin> *** Talliesin has quit (Nick collision from services.)
12:36:54 <Code_Poet> *** Code_Poet is now known as Talliesin
12:37:16 <Talliesin> .seen jillzilla
12:37:16 <xena> jillzilla seen in #swhack saying: [ [off] heh ] ~ 13 hr(s) 49 min(s) 40 sec(s) ago
12:37:45 <Talliesin> Bit of a security issue with xena repeating something that was [off]
12:38:16 <kandinski_> right, I didn't realise it before
12:38:33 <kandinski_> but we are lucky that she didn't repeat the bit about the pigeons
12:38:50 <Talliesin> Yes, It could have been much more compromising than "heh".
12:40:09 <kandinski_> else the sooper-famous mossad-trained google attack goons would now be taking out the geographically distributed #swhack crowd
12:41:08 <kandinski_> what do you mean they weren't famous... secret? whaddayameen secret?
12:41:13 <kandinski_> aaarrrrgghhh!!!!
12:41:24 <kandinski_> *** kandinski_ is now known as kandinski_dead
12:44:53 <libby> *** libby (~libby@66.7.88.180) has joined #swhack
12:45:08 <libby> *** libby has quit (Remote closed the connection)
12:45:17 <libby> *** libby (~libby@66.7.88.180) has joined #swhack
12:45:18 <Monty> lo libby
12:58:23 <Morbus> *** Morbus (~morbus@morbus.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack
12:59:19 <kandinski_> *** kandinski_ (~candyman@80-28-181-88.adsl.nuria.telefonica-data.net) has joined #swhack
12:59:19 <Monty> Speak of the devil, it's kandinski_!
13:03:15 <kandinski_dead> *** kandinski_dead has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
13:09:46 <kandinski_> *** kandinski_ has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
13:18:05 <woundown> *** woundown has quit (Remote closed the connection)
13:23:28 <inkel> *** inkel (~inkel-rdf@24.232.160.47) has joined #swhack
13:23:40 <sbp> hey there inkel
13:24:08 <inkel> hi sbp
13:24:30 <libby> hey guys
13:24:37 <sbp> hey libby
13:24:46 <woundown> *** woundown (~woundown@u121n229.hfx.eastlink.ca) has joined #swhack
13:24:46 <Monty> hi woundown
13:24:54 <inkel> hi libby
13:24:58 <sbp> how's the conf?
13:25:06 <libby> good ta
13:25:17 <libby> only started keynote 5 mins ago... :)
13:25:29 <sbp> oh, you're in it now? who's giving it?
13:28:05 <kandinski> hey
13:28:13 <sbp> hi kandinski
13:28:48 <libby> timbl
13:28:55 <libby> http://www.w3.org/2004/Talks/0519-tbl-keynote/all
13:28:59 <sbp> ta!
13:30:41 <libby> chatting in #www2004 if interested
13:31:48 <sbp> nice list under "Semantic web is for connecting things"
13:35:18 <kandinski> yes! interested!
13:36:39 <Talliesin> *** Talliesin has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
13:42:08 <kandinski> heh, this is going to come in so handy for my "why free software people should be paying more attention to this Semantic Web thing" presentation
13:49:26 <kandinski> and the style of taking notes publically, on the net, live, with people giving commentary, both from the room and without, is amazing
13:50:15 <kandinski> * kandinski didn't leave the house much till recently, and is easily amazed^H^H^H^Hused -- errr both.
13:52:40 <sbp> yeah, though it's still easy to feel left out
13:52:52 <sbp> all of the corridor chats that you miss out on, etc.
13:53:11 <sbp> IRC commentary is still far better than nowt, of course
13:54:23 <kandinski> well, depends on where you start from
13:54:28 <kandinski> I feel incredibly included
13:54:46 <kandinski> I would have to be very deep in for this to feel "being left out"
13:55:01 <kandinski> as we used to say: "compared to what?"
13:55:03 <sbp> which is rather ironic
13:55:25 <kandinski> paradoxical, even
13:55:32 <sbp> but true, I've always felt more included than excluded
13:55:50 <hamm__> *** hamm__ (~hamm_@host217-34-110-58.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack
13:56:07 <kandinski> well, gotta go to my class that I didn't prepare
13:56:15 <kandinski> this is going to be interesting-- again
13:56:18 <sbp> and I'm not saying that by not attending conferences, one is excluded per se: it's that one misses out on lots of opportunies, and there's also a tendency to get overlooked in various thing. information spreading by word o' mouth
13:56:24 <sbp> heh. enjoy!
13:56:30 <kandinski> ah, and the airlines found my bag! I will receive it tomorrow. woot!
13:56:34 <sbp> oh great!
13:56:45 <kandinski> hope all my birthday presents are still there <hmmmm>
13:57:02 <sbp> and all that lingerie
13:57:14 <sbp> actually, that's probably the best way to protect your other stuff
13:57:21 <sbp> bung lots of lingerie in there
13:57:22 <kandinski> hey, those *were* my presents
13:57:28 <sbp> heheh
13:57:32 <kandinski> although that is an idea
13:57:43 <kandinski> lingerie-filled laptop bags for nerds
13:57:47 <sbp> yes, I should patent that method
13:57:50 <sbp> no. mine!
13:57:59 <kandinski> victoria secret brand laptop diapers
13:58:01 <kandinski> you can have it
13:58:04 <sbp> heh!
13:58:16 <kandinski> I was going to say, before I leave for good
13:58:16 <sbp> with Bob Dylan doing the ads
13:58:40 <kandinski> that what you just said about word o'mouth would be one of the main criticisms of the semweb
13:59:04 <kandinski> what do you do with all the implicit communication?
13:59:14 <sbp> even lots of Semantic Web developers can't keep track...
13:59:15 <hamm__> sbp is your gmail space a terabyte?
13:59:17 <kandinski> the "by the ways"?
14:01:36 <sbp> <sbp> kandinski: not sure I get the argument against. if you're communicating via computer, it's all encoded somewhere
14:01:39 <sbp> <sbp> hamm__: it's not, no
14:01:41 <sbp> * Disconnected
14:02:22 <hamm__> http://news.zdnet.co.uk/internet/ecommerce/0,39020372,39155158,00.htm
14:02:36 <sbp> Call me, Nigerian minister says (great!): http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/3725283.stm
14:02:36 <swhacker> posted 349
14:03:37 <sbp> odd. I'm feeling rather left out :-)
14:03:54 <hamm__> lol
14:04:04 <hamm__> maybe it's an error....
14:04:25 <sbp> I think so
14:04:57 <sbp> 1GB costs $2 per user, doesn't it? so 1000GB would be $2000
14:05:10 <sbp> which would be a little difficult to recoup in advertising
14:05:29 <deltab> only if used
14:05:57 <sbp> well, I wonder if that figure includes backups too. but yeah
14:06:24 <sbp> is anyone seriously ever going to use a TB of space for email?
14:06:33 <deltab> I have under 100 GB total
14:06:48 <sbp> total email? I should hope so!
14:07:05 <sbp> or total data? mine's up around... er, not sure actually
14:07:48 <sbp> gotta repurpose the line for a bit
14:11:47 <d8uv> Morning!
14:12:02 <deusx> *** deusx (~deusx@pcp02689348pcs.roylok01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #swhack
14:13:08 <d8uv> kandinski, hamm, sbp, deltab, and deusx, Hello!
14:13:24 <deusx> Yo yo
14:14:48 <hamm__> i'm out of here
14:15:00 <d8uv> Seeya!
14:15:09 <hamm__> *** hamm__ has quit ("m")
14:16:01 <redmonk> *** redmonk (~steve@ip68-104-177-198.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #swhack
14:19:02 <deltab> total digital
14:26:02 <Talliesin> *** Talliesin (~talliesin@213.94.193.50) has joined #swhack
14:45:24 <libby> *** libby has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
14:59:52 <libby> *** libby (~libby@66.7.88.180) has joined #swhack
14:59:52 <wh4> *** wh4 has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
15:01:39 <Talliesin> Connections just don't seem to be staying.
15:02:33 <Talliesin> * Talliesin is pinging himself every 10 secs, which seems to be holding the connection open.
15:05:58 <Ash> good morning
15:06:01 <Ash> clownshoes
15:08:33 <Talliesin> Ah yes, the circus version of "Good Morning Sunshine".
15:13:18 <Talliesin> It only now occurs to me that bell curve isn't a single word.
15:17:15 <evangineer> *** evangineer has quit ("demo or die!")
15:24:15 <deusx> *** deusx has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
15:27:48 <redmonk> *** redmonk has quit ("Quitting")
15:41:42 <jcowan> *** jcowan has changed the topic to: #swhack. Welcome to the right-hand side of the bellcurve (the one for irrelevance, d.h.)
15:42:42 <xover> This is what they mean by "Over the hill", huh?
15:44:19 <Ash> so how are you nutters doing this morning
15:44:34 <xover> MMMm. Nuts...
15:54:10 <xover> Well, it was good knowing you all. Have fun in the afterlife.
15:54:51 <xover> The World Endeth Today (Rejoice!): http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http://www.www2004.org/
15:54:52 <swhacker> posted 350
15:55:18 <Ash> yeah the world's ending
15:55:21 <Ash> thanks for noticing
15:56:13 <xover> 350: After thirteen years, WWW2004, the Conference of Record for the World Wide Web and the W3C, has finally managed to use Valid HTML on their website!
15:56:26 <sbp> 350:Aaargh, it validates?! Quick! DoS it!
15:56:54 <xover> 350: It's crappy table-layout HTML, but still... It does actually Validate as HTML 4.01 Transitional...
15:57:34 <sbp> 350:Now let me direct the page authors to the WAI specifications, and some general design sense. Kudos, though, for this excellent first step!
15:58:16 <Ash> 350: thus proving that you are all nitpicky motherfuckers
15:58:23 <Ash> kekeke
15:58:31 <xover> 350: Since this new-fangled HTML 4 thing was only made a standard in 1998, six years ago, by some weird industry consortium that nobody's even heard of, I'd say that's pretty good.
16:10:26 <JibberJim> *** JibberJim (~none@dsl-217-155-144-135.zen.co.uk) has joined #swhack
16:50:49 <Talliesin> Impressive.
16:51:10 <Talliesin> Google placed an "adopt a badger" ad on badgerbadgerbadger.com
16:51:37 <Talliesin> Which may well have been the first time the alternate_ad_color wasn't used.
16:51:39 <JibberJim> hmm...
16:53:30 <libby> *** libby has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:56:53 <Talliesin> I continue to be impressed by how well they work with so little context.
16:57:18 <Talliesin> The adverts for diapers that were once on Tim Bray's blog aside.
17:08:10 <redmonk> *** redmonk (~steve@208.38.224.146) has joined #swhack
17:27:47 <libby> *** libby (~libby@66.7.88.180) has joined #swhack
17:28:21 <q8uv> *** q8uv (d8uv@24.237.67.16) has joined #swhack
17:28:21 <d8uv> *** d8uv has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
17:28:31 <JibberJim> *** JibberJim has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17:29:58 <Talliesin> *** Talliesin has quit ()
17:38:25 <hamm_> *** hamm_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
17:38:59 <eikeon> *** eikeon (~eikeon@pcp08734018pcs.flrdav01.dc.comcast.net) has joined #swhack
17:50:26 <deusx> *** deusx (~deusx@216.17.101.46) has joined #swhack
17:50:44 <libby> *** libby has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:16:26 <Morbus> nutshell: girl emails me looking for britney spears video I have.
18:16:34 <Morbus> said girl wants said video to study britney's moves.
18:16:44 <Morbus> normally, I trade files, so I asked for a video of her doing britney's moves.
18:16:46 <Morbus> she agreed.
18:16:48 <Morbus> [[[
18:16:48 <Morbus> [14:15] <Morbus> i found the girl who wants the video.
18:16:48 <Morbus> [14:15] <Morbus> 12http://profiles.yahoo.com/gypsysamadhi 01
18:16:48 <Morbus> [14:15] <Morbus> same email and everything.
18:16:48 <Morbus> [14:15] <imajes> hum
18:16:49 <Morbus> [14:15] <imajes> i could download the shipping news
18:16:51 <Morbus> [14:15] <imajes> that's a great book
18:16:53 <Morbus> [14:16] <Morbus> OHMYGOD ITS CHRISTINA
18:16:55 <Morbus> [14:16] <Morbus> CHRISTINA WNATS TO STEAL BRITNEYS MOVIESSSS.
18:16:57 <Morbus> ]]]
18:17:46 <sbp> and she lives in MO
18:17:55 <Morbus> man alive.
18:17:56 <sbp> The Collectors' Dilemma
18:18:00 <Morbus> i know what you mean about firefox, sbp.
18:18:03 <Morbus> mine's been acting fucked up.
18:18:08 <Morbus> it froze on her first cool site.
18:18:46 <sbp> it is a little screwy; it's the form field freezing bug that was most disconcerting for me. occasionally it'll crash for no apparent reason too, but that's thankfully rare
18:19:07 <Morbus> yweah, i've had that bug too.
18:19:16 <Morbus> the first time you submit something, it takes a long ass time.
18:19:19 <sbp> form freezing? did you fix it?
18:19:27 <Morbus> nope. goes away after i wait the first time.
18:19:34 <sbp> aye. I fixed mine by deleting (moving) the data files
18:19:39 <Morbus> which data files?
18:19:55 <sbp> hmm. it gets progressively worse for me: it was pegging the CPU at 100% for minutes at a time
18:20:05 <sbp> the data files in your local profile that store all the form data
18:20:36 <sbp> but that's like clearing your history it--you have to start remembering your passwords again. argh!
18:20:41 <sbp> s/it/out/
18:20:46 <jcowan> The cure for that is to stay away from sites that are dubious in more ways that one. One is all you get.
18:21:19 <sbp> dubious by having lots of scary form entry fields on them?
18:21:31 <Morbus> sbp: that's ridiculous. i just installed firefox like, two weeks ago.
18:21:36 <Morbus> the crap is corrupted already? fuck?!
18:21:41 <sbp> (and hi jcowan!)
18:22:04 <Morbus> huh.
18:22:08 <Morbus> this chick is a belly dancer: http://bellydance.meetup.com/members/226
18:22:10 <sbp> oh, two weeks? no I'd had mine for months, and the data files were huge. I suspect that they were corrupt
18:22:17 <Morbus> her nick is listed here, and it's MO.
18:22:35 <Morbus> and she's got some damn icon that i can't maximize, but i want to.
18:22:39 <Morbus> * Morbus signs up for meetup account.
18:22:40 <sbp> hence my saying "<sbp> and she lives in MO"
18:22:55 <sbp> the "<sbp> The Collectors' Dilemma" line was a bit more obtuse...
18:23:00 <sbp> .g Prisoners' Dilemma
18:23:01 <phenny> Prisoners' Dilemma: http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/PRISDIL.html
18:24:15 <Morbus> goddamit.
18:24:21 <Morbus> meetup won't let you get user profiles.
18:24:29 <sbp> hmm. actually I was thinking of this: http://web.archive.org/web/20010529034922/http://www.kitsite.com/~robin/ou-x-po/talk/prisoner.html
18:25:29 <Morbus> google sucks.
18:25:31 <Morbus> only two results.
18:25:50 <sbp> (the restriction is that you can't use any characters with ascenders or descenders)
18:27:18 <hamm_> *** hamm_ (~chatzilla@213-78-32-37.uk.onetel.net.uk) has joined #swhack
18:27:22 <sbp> heavy duty lipogrammation. remind me to tell kandinski about it
18:27:29 <sbp> actually, I can't rely on you
18:27:50 <sbp> Monty, tell kandinski check out http://web.archive.org/web/20010529034922/http://www.kitsite.com/~robin/ou-x-po/talk/prisoner.html (the restriction is that you can't use any characters with ascenders or descenders)
18:27:50 <Monty> sbp: Okay, I'll tell kandinski that next time I see them...
18:27:56 <Morbus> sbp: http://img.meetup.com/member/2/7/5/9/87701.jpeg
18:29:07 <sbp> ah. so that's what Missourians look like
18:29:40 <Morbus> i say they look pretty good.
18:30:13 <sbp> thing is, if you say "Missoura" like plenty of Missourians do, then it'd be "Missoura-ians" which is silly, so you'd have to say "Missour-ians", but that only comes up with sub-100 results
18:31:57 <Morbus> sbp, see this? http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1594915,00.asp
18:31:58 <Morbus> probably.
18:33:29 <sbp> hmm. possible infamous-Utahian-company link?
18:35:16 <sbp> heh: [[[
18:35:16 <sbp> But the appearance of the "1000000 MB" ticker at the bottom of their Gmail inboxes was no more than a system bug that Google Inc. is working to fix, the company confirmed Wednesday.
18:35:16 <sbp> "That in fact was a bug," spokesman Nathan Tyler said. "We're working to fix it. Gmail offers users 1 gigabyte of storage."
18:35:16 <sbp> ]]] - http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1595531,00.asp
18:35:55 <deltab> maybe it was a cunning publicity ploy
18:36:03 <jcowan> Ah, sbp! We meet at last. (Please don't tell me I'm a silly Unicode knigget, I doubt I could bear it today.)
18:37:06 <sbp> hmm
18:37:08 <sbp> .ety nidget
18:37:11 <phenny> nidget: [Written also {nigget}, {nigeot}.] [Cf. F.
18:37:11 <phenny> nigaud a boody, fool, OF. niger to play the fool.]
18:37:13 <jcowan> Dubious, as in probably containing all sorts of hacky HTML, form or otherwise; also as in of dubious worth as a web site even if it worked.
18:38:02 <sbp> and indeed; pleased to meet you finally! you we've probably crossed paths on mailing lists in the distant past. I'm glad Jon invited you in, and I hope you're enjoying the rather... eclectic mix so far
18:38:18 <jcowan> It's a very interesting place.
18:38:50 <sbp> I'm still more inclined to think that the form data was corrupt since it was going wrong on Aaron and mnot's site--two people I think woul dhardly be inclined to produce messy HTML
18:39:01 <jcowan> I believe those who say Mizoora are called Mizoorans.
18:39:12 <sbp> heh, heh
18:39:16 <sbp> .gc mizoorans
18:39:17 <xena> no results found.
18:39:18 <jcowan> Fair enough.
18:39:23 <jeremiah> *** jeremiah (~chatzilla@ip68-228-138-252.hr.hr.cox.net) has joined #swhack
18:39:36 <jcowan> As in the local pronunciation of "Missouri".
18:39:54 <sbp> though some do pronounce it with the -ri
18:40:13 <jeremiah> hi
18:40:14 <jcowan> Sure, and some people from Louisiana probably say the state's name with four syllables.
18:40:16 <sbp> it's the American version of Shrewsbury
18:40:28 <sbp> well, let's not go that far!
18:40:30 <sbp> hey there jeremiah
18:40:44 <jcowan> Ohhhh no. Oh no. How is Shrewsbury pronounced, then? [subi]?
18:41:31 <sbp> it's a disputed pronunciation: [[[
18:41:32 <sbp> <sbp> hehe. I'm cruel sometimes
18:41:32 <sbp> <sbp> 1) take a word from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_words_of_disputed_pronunciation [1]
18:41:32 <sbp> <sbp> 2) shout out to the rest of the household "is it X or Y?"
18:41:32 <sbp> <sbp> 3) chuckle as lots of confused and conflicting answers come back, and argument ensues
18:41:40 <sbp> ]]] - http://www.kingprimate.com/weblog/archives/2004_03_20.html#12:23PM
18:42:16 <sbp> (taken from jeramiah's weblog: since he just joined, I thought I'd try to get a jeremiah theme going)
18:42:36 <jeremiah> haha
18:43:12 <sbp> the first syllable is either as in "shrew" the animal, or the initial part of "shrove"
18:43:15 <jeremiah> i am reading about topology, and the more i think "wow, topology is sort of absurd" the more I like it
18:43:39 <sbp> jcowan: incidentally, do you have a summary of the ASCII IPA you've been using?
18:43:45 <jcowan> Ah. If you can still tell the difference between a doughnut and a coffee cup, you haven't mastered
18:43:47 <jcowan> topology yet.
18:44:27 <jeremiah> i wonder how topologists handle that joke
18:44:56 <Morbus> JELWO.
18:45:08 <jcowan> They perform a discontinuous transformation on the jokester.
18:45:10 <sbp> * sbp suspects that they laugh long and hard, and then try to tip the contents of a doughnut into their mouths
18:45:57 <Morbus> [[[
18:45:58 <Morbus> 10[14:41] *** Misafir4470871 (~caylak@62.248.16.169) has joined channel #apache
18:45:58 <Morbus> [14:41] <Misafir4470871> hi
18:45:58 <Morbus> [14:41] <fajita> hola, Misafir4470871
18:45:58 <Morbus> [14:41] <@Morbus> JE:WP MISASF.!
18:46:08 <Morbus> [14:42] <Misafir4470871> i added password protection for my directory
18:46:08 <Morbus> [14:42] <@Morbus> YAY!
18:46:08 <Morbus> [14:42] <Misafir4470871> but how will i make crypted password ?
18:46:17 <Morbus> [14:42] <@Morbus> htpasswd
18:46:17 <Morbus> [14:42] <fajita> htpasswd is 12http://httpd.apache.org/docs-2.0/programs/htpasswd.html 01 or A utility for creating password files for 01use with Basic authentication.
18:46:24 <Morbus> [14:45] <Misafir4470871> M07orb01us thanks :-)
18:46:24 <Morbus> [14:45] <@Morbus> NO PROBSELEM. WULL YOU MY BE FRIEND!?!!
18:46:25 <Morbus> ]]]
18:46:33 <jeremiah> so what big has happened in the channel? i would read backlogs but... i don't want to burn 3 days
18:46:50 <Morbus> jeremiah: i've been fiddling with drupal far too much.
18:46:52 <sbp> I really need to have words with DrBacchus...
18:47:04 <Morbus> why?
18:47:07 <jeremiah> drupal being that PHP CMS?
18:47:08 <jcowan> The IPA transcription I'm using is called CXS (Conlang X-SAMPA), documented at http://www.theiling.de/ipa .
18:47:14 <Morbus> jeremiah: yeah. its very, very, good, IMO.
18:47:21 <Morbus> nice api, strong features.
18:47:21 <jeremiah> huh
18:47:24 <Morbus> developers are pricks.
18:47:24 <sbp> the biggest thing is... well, how long have you been away? jcowan and Talliesin coming in was quite a coup
18:47:27 <AaronSw> *** AaronSw (~Snak@c-24-13-224-74.client.comcast.net) has joined #swhack
18:47:31 <jcowan> It's closely related to the X-SAMPA of John Wells (yes, *the* John Wells)
18:47:32 <Morbus> sbp: why you need tlak with drb?
18:47:42 <jeremiah> i don't think i've been around for a good month
18:47:45 <jeremiah> with exams and whatnot
18:47:49 <Morbus> oh, right, hey jcowan. i'm morbus.
18:47:56 <sbp> Morbus: just to see what possessed him to make you a chanop in #apache!
18:48:05 <jcowan> morbus: so I see.
18:48:20 <sbp> jcowan: thanks! trying to load it in Firefox, but, good timing, it's frozen
18:48:22 <jeremiah> is tav's work on the plex any further along?
18:48:24 <Morbus> sbp: it was a community decision! ahahahah <g>
18:48:26 <sbp> * sbp waves to AaronSw
18:48:28 <jeremiah> i found his .plan but didn't find anything else
18:48:29 <Morbus> i coup'd everyone, not just one man! ;)
18:48:42 <jcowan> This is 0.8? I have had no trouble with that release.
18:48:52 <sbp> Morbus: I refuse to believe that any community could be warped enough to put you in charge
18:48:57 <sbp> 0.8, aye
18:48:58 <jcowan> My .plan says: "A mighty maze, but not without a plan."
18:49:00 <Morbus> * Morbus beams proudly.
18:49:29 <jeremiah> http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Topology.html
18:49:56 <jeremiah> look at the diagrams showing different shapes as squares made of directed vectors, really sort of amazing that they can represent things like that
18:50:00 <jcowan> The CXS-ified IPA chart is also available at http://conlang.eusebeia.dyndns.org/ipa/cxschart.png .
18:50:23 <jcowan> Yeah, it really is. jeremiah: are you interested in chess at all?
18:50:36 <Morbus> [14:49] <Misafir4470871> :-))
18:50:36 <Morbus> [14:49] <Misafir4470871> M07orb01us, all server need a thing like you :P
18:50:43 <jeremiah> Morbus: i once used drupal but haven't in a long time, liked it iirc
18:50:52 <jeremiah> jcowan: yes, haven't played in a while though
18:50:56 <Morbus> jeremiah: when i last checked drupal, years ago, it wa nothing more than a niuke clone.
18:51:14 <Morbus> its insanely better now. i've nothing to complain about yet (well, there is a URL design issue, but nothing i can;t fix with effort).
18:51:18 <jcowan> there are interesting chess variants played on different board topologies.
18:51:44 <jeremiah> the standard way to setup a website at my school seems to be to use phpnuke, i have so far found maybe 10 websites setup on phpnuke
18:52:04 <jcowan> For example, on a vertical cylinder (identify the left and right edges), a bishop can disappear off the left (apparent) edge and reappear on the (apparent) other side of the board.
18:52:22 <sbp> Serebriakoff once wrote a good piece about five dimensional tic-tac-toe which could warp your mind somewhat
18:52:23 <jeremiah> oh so you use the same board
18:52:25 <jeremiah> woah
18:52:46 <jcowan> You can also identify the top and bottom edges (as seen on a page, that is), or even both sets of edges, which makes it a torus.
18:53:06 <jeremiah> as an aside, whenever i mention that i'm taking physics now girls, girls specifically, start talking about tessaracts
18:53:22 <jcowan> Probably been reading _A Wrinkle In Time_.
18:53:30 <jeremiah> yeah they were
18:53:44 <jcowan> However, on a horizontal cylinder or a torus, the standard setup is illegal, because the two kings are on adjacent squares.
18:54:14 <jcowan> Is your head wrapped around this yet? :-)
18:54:34 <jeremiah> i can't tell if it's my head or a basketball
18:54:58 <jeremiah> i wonder which holes in my head actually qualify as holes
18:54:59 <jcowan> It's all the same. We just deform the inflation valve until it's the size of your mouth.
18:55:25 <jcowan> Well, it depends on where you think your head stops, but I'd say the mouth and nose make two, so it's a 2-genus object.
18:55:38 <sbp> hmm. it'd be nice to see more topologically bizarre programming languages: befunge programs' pointer spaces are always toroidal
18:55:41 <jcowan> Your body as a whole has only one hole.
18:56:17 <jcowan> Well, an obvious tactic is to identify the left bottom with the right top and vice versa, which is programming on a moebius strip.
18:56:45 <jcowan> If you identify both pairs of edges in this wraparound fashion, you have a Klein bottle (for sale: inquire within)
18:56:52 <jeremiah> why would you want to program on surface?
18:57:03 <jcowan> Spreadsheet programmers and life hackers do.
18:57:09 <jcowan> s/life/Life
18:57:11 <sbp> I could never wrap my head around Klein bottles' descriptions
18:57:38 <sbp> yeah. cellular automata are great. CL is turing complete! (everything is these days)
18:57:59 <jcowan> Well, you can see how to wrap a cylinder into a torus, right? Curl it up and join the circular edges?
18:58:06 <sbp> yes
18:58:26 <jcowan> The outside remains the outside, and the inside the inside.
18:59:07 <jcowan> To make a K bottle, just join the edges in such a way that the outside of one is the inside of the other, and vice versa. Like the twist you give a M strip before you seal it up, except in a K bottle you have to twist through 4-space instead of 3-space.
18:59:43 <sbp> that's the part where I lose it :-)
19:00:15 <sbp> I can see that if you fed one of the ends through the side of the cylinder, and then bent it back on itself you could achieve that... am I right?
19:00:51 <jcowan> Yes, except it doesn't actually self-intersect, any more than the single edge of an M-strip self intersects. But that's the way it looks in 3-space, all right.
19:00:52 <sbp> we need an SVG sketchpad
19:01:17 <Morbus> we need more ladies.
19:01:23 <sbp> okay, then that was a good description. thanks!
19:01:27 <jcowan> See the picture at http://www.kleinbottle.com , Cliff Stoll's site for selling them.
19:01:56 <jcowan> I've been called "one of the girls" on occasion.
19:02:05 <Morbus> oh yeah?
19:02:08 <sbp> Morbus: you need to stop scaring them away. I am aware of the huge gender divide in here, though, but I'd say it's just representative of Freenode and the technology sector in general
19:02:19 <Morbus> i'm not scaring them away?
19:02:24 <Morbus> i'm getting britney faux videos.
19:02:28 <Morbus> what are /you/ getting? <g>
19:02:40 <jcowan> You don't want to know about my complicated love life.
19:02:58 <sbp> heh! "Wool Klein Bottle Hats & Möbius Scarves"
19:03:08 <themaximus> *** themaximus has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
19:03:30 <themaximus> *** themaximus (~themax@roc-24-169-188-175.rochester.rr.com) has joined #swhack
19:04:12 <sbp> oh wow: http://www.kleinbottle.com/drinking_mug_klein_bottle.htm
19:04:33 <themaximus> *** themaximus has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
19:05:24 <jeremiah> We make the handle slightly larger than the nearly-sperical base. This makes the Question Mark Klein Bottle easy to grasp during those intimate topological moments when handles and holes are hard to discern.
19:05:46 <jcowan> *That* complicated, however, my love life is not.
19:05:57 <sbp> * sbp dreams of a day when we'll have more females, differently gendered, and ethnic minority folk than bots on the channel... sigh
19:06:19 <Morbus> more females differently gendered?
19:06:21 <robertbrook> *** robertbrook (~robert@robertbrook.demon.co.uk) has joined #swhack
19:06:22 <jcowan> Would it be to totally infra dig. to ask what each of the six bots does?
19:06:26 <Morbus> there are more than one type of female? hot damn.
19:06:28 <jcowan> s/to/too
19:06:35 <jeremiah> ohhh, i see why it has zero volume
19:06:48 <jeremiah> weird
19:07:49 <Morbus> i admit to knowing little about the klein bottle, or why i should be impressed.
19:07:51 <Morbus> sigh.
19:08:00 <sbp> jcowan: I'll try to fit it into one line. loggy: logs us publically; Monty: markov chain and reminders; phenny: sundry tasks (phenny: help? for more); supybot: sundry tasks (@help for more); swhacker: posts to our weblog ("title (description): URI" to post, all fields and whitespace mandatory); xena: misc functions (.help for more)
19:08:02 <Monty> nice api, strong features.
19:09:22 <sbp> loggy (perl) and swhacker (python) are maintained by AaronSw, Monty (java) is maintained by Jibbler, supybot (python) is maintained by jemfinch, xena (python/zope) is maintained by tav, and phenny (python) is mine
19:09:23 <jeremiah> Morbus: it's not all that amazing, i mean... the thing about math is that you study very simple things which then have properties that can be applied elsewhere, i guess klien bottles are really just interesting as special cases
19:09:25 <Monty> I firmly believe that foliage hates buffed wasps?!
19:09:29 <jcowan> sbp: Thanks. I'll wait till the channel is quiet before experimenting.
19:09:51 <sbp> hmm? #swhack gets quiet? :-)
19:11:19 <Morbus> speaking of math, A Beautiful Mind has one of the most beautiful soundtracks, IMO.
19:11:26 <jcowan> Morbus: the inside of the K bottle is continuous with its outside, just as a Moebius strip has only one side. Hence the crack about "For sale: inquire within". If a real Klein bottle could be built (which it can't), we would all already be "within" it.
19:11:57 <Morbus> why can't a real one be made?
19:12:00 <Morbus> what are these bottles then?
19:12:03 <sbp> reminds me of the asylum in HHG
19:12:05 <Morbus> and how would we be in it?
19:12:08 <Morbus> oh, i shouldn't even ask.
19:12:19 <sbp> Morbus: they can only exist in four dimensions (or more)
19:12:29 <Morbus> why?
19:12:41 <jcowan> The ones at kleinbottle.com are glass imitations.
19:12:46 <Morbus> dont these klein bottles have a continuous inside and outside?
19:12:51 <sbp> Morbus: try representing a sphere or a cube in two dimensions
19:13:06 <Morbus> should I reread Abbott?
19:13:09 <Morbus> I should reread Abbott.
19:13:50 <sbp> another hacker lore book I'm avoiding
19:14:04 <sbp> more CPG, less EAA!
19:14:05 <Morbus> why, its all gutenberg and shit.
19:14:12 <Morbus> doesn't gutenberg outweight the cliche?
19:14:17 <Morbus> or has guten become one himself? ;)
19:14:31 <jcowan> Yes. Also Burger's sequel, _Spaceland_ (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0064635740)
19:14:42 <Morbus> there's a sequel to abbott's book too.
19:14:50 <Morbus> not by him.
19:14:51 <Morbus> of course.
19:15:00 <Ash> SLIME BEZIER PIZZA
19:15:09 <Morbus> flatterland, or some such nonesense.
19:15:26 <jcowan> Sorry, _Sphereland_. _Spaceland_ is more of a parody than a sequel.
19:15:26 <sbp> AS SHE HOPES
19:15:42 <jcowan> "more CPG, less EAA": excessively ambiguous.
19:15:42 <sbp> Bezier?
19:15:48 <jcowan> A type of curve.
19:16:02 <jeremiah> jcowan: so couldn't you make a one-surfaced object in n-space?
19:16:07 <Ash> yawn
19:16:23 <jcowan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bezier_curve
19:16:31 <jeremiah> thanks
19:16:38 <deltab> yay bezier curves
19:16:48 <sbp> I'd've hoped that EAA would be at least possibly discernible from context, though I admit that CPG was overdoing it somewhat. Charlotte Perkins Gilman and Edwin A. Abbott
19:16:49 <jcowan> As long as n > 3.
19:17:23 <jcowan> Oh, gotcha. But what does the first A in EAA stand for (no fair using lookup tools), eh?
19:17:43 <jcowan> I've only read The Yellow Wallpaper.
19:18:57 <sbp> Bernstein polynomials: *the* Bernstein?
19:19:04 <jeremiah> you need n > 3 for the concept of a surface
19:19:31 <sbp> * sbp isn't sure of the middle A anymore than most people are aware of his own middle B...
19:19:36 <jcowan> n > 2, I think. I see lots of surfaces in the 3-space that surrounds me. But to make one-surface objects requires at least 4-space.
19:19:55 <jcowan> Abbott, believe it or not. Edwin Abbott Abbott was named after his father, Edwin Abbott.
19:20:01 <sbp> heh!
19:20:05 <jeremiah> whoops, meant >=
19:20:14 <jcowan> Ah.
19:20:22 <sbp> possibly the last thing I would've guessed
19:20:44 <jcowan> Indubitably.
19:20:58 <jeremiah> since you stop guessing once you get the right answer
19:21:07 <deltab> S. Bernstein
19:21:14 <sbp> deltab: thanks
19:22:42 <jeremiah> jcowan: now can you actually "see" the 4-space klien bottle in your head or do you just know it's properties?
19:23:13 <jcowan> jeremiah: I'm doing well if I can "see" a triangle in my head. My visualization abilities are perilously close to zero.
19:23:55 <jcowan> Hmm, idea: a first-person shooter set on (near?) a Klein bottle.
19:23:59 <sbp> it is possible generally for someone to be able to see one?
19:24:27 <woundown> *** woundown has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
19:24:37 <jeremiah> sbp: doubt it, pretty sure you can't visualize more than 3 dimensions
19:24:44 <jcowan> I can only deal with 4-space by reasoning, not by visualizing, and I generally advise visualizers not to try, because it will muddle them. But there undoubtedly are some people who can do it.
19:24:58 <jeremiah> hawking said he can't do it
19:25:00 <jcowan> Klein could, I bet.
19:25:22 <sbp> it'd certainly be helpful in discovering the shapes
19:25:35 <jeremiah> i imagine after a while you get used to playing with it
19:25:48 <jeremiah> and maybe you feel it more than you see it
19:26:11 <jcowan> Something like that, yes.
19:26:22 <woundown> *** woundown (~woundown@u121n229.hfx.eastlink.ca) has joined #swhack
19:26:34 <jcowan> Have you hit the bridges of Koenigsberg (now Kaliningrad) yet?
19:26:49 <jeremiah> i expect to be intimately familiar with all thing dimensional by the time i graduate
19:27:16 <sbp> now we're getting to graph theory
19:27:21 <jeremiah> or much more than I am now
19:27:37 <jeremiah> are these books about math concepts?
19:27:46 <sbp> hmm. DanC pointed to a really excellent introduction to graph theory once that dealt with the Bridges of Koenigsberg problem
19:28:41 <sbp> * sbp fails to find it
19:28:58 <jeremiah> wish i hadn't left all my books at school
19:29:10 <jeremiah> although i do have Smale's book, which i should dig back into
19:29:45 <jcowan> Dan Connolly?
19:29:55 <sbp> jcowan: yep
19:30:53 <jcowan> At least intuition serves you well there: to traverse a graph containing N nodes in one path, you have to have either zero odd nodes (it's a loop, so start anywhere) or exactly two (start at one, end at the other).
19:30:58 <sbp> argh, 403: http://www.ilrt.bris.ac.uk/discovery/chatlogs/search?channel=rdfig
19:31:17 <jcowan> Of course, it helps a lot if Euler has already explained it to you.
19:31:36 <jcowan> You are in a twisty maze of little nodes, all distinct.
19:31:39 <themaximus> *** themaximus (~Max@themaximus.registered) has joined #swhack
19:31:39 <sbp> heh
19:31:40 <Monty> lo themaximus
19:33:08 <themaximus> hehe, lol.
19:33:14 <jeremiah> time to bounce outta here, seeya
19:33:21 <jcowan> Catchyalater.
19:33:27 <robertbrook> *** robertbrook has quit (Remote closed the connection)
19:34:13 <sbp> enjoy, jeremiah
19:34:15 <jcowan> You can see the BoK problem as either graph theory or topology.
19:34:29 <sbp> how as topology?
19:35:00 <jcowan> By transforming the edges into point sets.
19:36:02 <sbp> * sbp takes a look at http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Point-SetTopology.html (funny how often wolfram.com is coming up in searches like these, these days)
19:37:27 <sbp> @google fight toruses tori
19:37:29 <themaximus> *** themaximus has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
19:37:30 <supybot> sbp: 'tori': 940000, 'toruses': 1410
19:37:53 <themaximus> *** themaximus (~Max@roc-24-169-188-175.rochester.rr.com) has joined #swhack
19:37:57 <sbp> * sbp decdes that Tori Amos probably muddies the results somewhat
19:38:59 <sbp> .gc torus tori
19:39:00 <xena> torus tori: 29,900
19:39:03 <sbp> .gc torus toruses
19:39:03 <xena> torus toruses: 795
19:40:44 <jcowan> sbp: one of our common interests: http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=328A39D5.61F1%40ccil.org
19:40:45 <supybot> Google Groups: alt.adjective.noun.verb.verb.verb, alt.Gettysburg.Address.address.address.address
19:41:48 <sbp> oh wow. I hadn't thought've translating classic works of literature, addresses, etc. into alt.a.n.v.v.v form before
19:41:53 <Morbus> *** Morbus has quit ("http://www.disobey.com/")
19:42:34 <sbp> heh: "alt.e'osai.lojban.sarji.sarji.sarji" Translation?
19:42:55 <jcowan> Recte "e'osai ko sarji la lojban" = "Please support Lojban". See http://www.lojban.org
19:44:02 <jcowan> See also early aanvvv spam aanvvv-ized at http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=328B917A.73BC%40ccil.org
19:44:04 <supybot> Google Groups: alt.adjective.noun.verb.verb.verb, alt.obnoxious.spam.recoded.translated.satirized
19:44:11 <sbp> (alt.excellent.translation.like.note.incidentalize)
19:44:39 <jcowan> alt.excellent.praise.noted.appreciated.reciprocated.
19:45:24 <sbp> alt."john".adjective.questioning.wondering.musing ("alt.john.cowan.am.am.am")
19:46:56 <jcowan> I am a John-ish type of Cowan.
19:47:52 <sbp> hmm. I think Johannine is accepted in Gospel Studies for the book of John
19:47:53 <jcowan> alt.borderline.case.admitted.confessed.!avoided
19:48:20 <sbp> alt.humorous.laugh.chuckle.smirk.grin
19:48:21 <jcowan> alt.great.idea.adopted.adopted.adopted
19:49:11 <jcowan> I shall now use alt.johannine.cowan.hight.hight.hight.
19:49:26 <sbp> I lack an adjective; quite sad really. though "Sean" is just "John" filtered through Irish and English
19:49:33 <libby> *** libby (~libby@66.7.88.180) has joined #swhack
19:49:45 <jcowan> So is "Cowan".
19:49:53 <sbp> hight: ooh
19:50:05 <sbp> Cowan's from Hebrew?
19:50:18 <sbp> hey there libby
19:50:30 <libby> heyup
19:53:30 <sbp> ah, hmm: [[[
19:53:30 <sbp> Search results for: Cowan
19:53:30 <sbp> (origin: Gaelic.) Gobhainn, a smith; Gowan, a Scottish word for a wild flower.
19:53:37 <sbp> ]]] - http://www.last-names.net/surname.asp?surname=Cowan
19:54:13 <sbp> irritating apostrophes in the plurals on that page
19:54:55 <sbp> just another anglicized celtic word then
19:56:07 <sbp> * sbp wonders whence jcowan's interest in celticonlang
19:58:22 <jcowan> Cowan = Mac Eoghain, the son of Eoghan (another Irish clone of "John")
19:59:17 <sbp> ah! thanks. is last-names.net completely erroneous on that matter, then, or is there an alternate etymology for it too?
19:59:35 <jcowan> Probably. Some Cowans are just Cohens who have changed the spelling, too.
19:59:58 <jcowan> Occasionally I get accused of being a self-hating Jew, even.
20:00:42 <sbp> hmm
20:00:45 <jcowan> Es ist shver tsu zayn a Cowan, and no fooling: those who can spell it, can't pronounce it, and vice versa.
20:02:43 <sbp> translation for the yiddish? (and, en passant, how many languages are you fluent in?)
20:02:57 <jcowan> My grandfather the immigrant was "John J. Coen". He adopted "Cowan" the spelling soon after arriving here; the pronunciation, according to my father, was unilaterally altered by my father's football coach.
20:03:08 <jcowan> "It's hard to be a Cowan", parody of the common saying "It's hard to be a Jew."
20:03:18 <jcowan> Only English.
20:03:21 <redmonk> *** redmonk has quit ("Quitting")
20:03:40 <jcowan> coach: "What's your name?"
20:03:57 <jcowan> My father: "Cowan, sir!" (pronounced like Cohen)
20:04:12 <jcowan> Coach [contemptuously] "You're Cowan!" (like "cow")
20:04:22 <jcowan> It stuck, and spread to his brothers and sisters, too.
20:05:20 <jcowan> My wife quite likes it, and is even more vociferous in enforcing the correct pronunciation than I am.
20:05:49 <sbp> sorry, got disconnected. here's to the hope of a better connection soon...
20:05:58 <sbp> so your grandfather is of Jewish descent? why did he change the spelling?
20:06:06 <jcowan> No, Irish.
20:06:22 <sbp> ah, and the spelling was a normalization then I presume
20:06:29 <jcowan> Presumably. No one alive remembers.
20:06:43 <sbp> * sbp is also glad that he's not the only monoglot around for a change
20:06:51 <jcowan> My father's birth certificate (1904) says "Cowan", so it was before that.
20:07:42 <jcowan> Very few, if any, Jews named John, despite its unimpeachable Hebrew origin. Jon/Jonathan/Yonatan, yes; John/Yokhanan, no.
20:07:42 <sbp> heh. that reminds me of yuor saying (I think it was you, anyway) that it's a shame that Yola died out just before the professional study of linguistics was undertaken on a wider scale
20:07:48 <jcowan> Yup, me.
20:08:07 <redmonk> *** redmonk (~steve@208.38.224.146) has joined #swhack
20:08:18 <jcowan> There's a Jon Cowan who also works at Reuters; we get each other's email, voicemail, phone calls, and packages.
20:08:20 <sbp> and that's a point; I'd not noticed any, but hadn't thought of it
20:08:36 <jcowan> Replay: [[[
20:08:44 <jcowan> <jcowan> coach: "What's your name?"
20:08:44 <jcowan> <jcowan> My father: "Cowan, sir!" (pronounced like Cohen)
20:08:44 <jcowan> <jcowan> Coach [contemptuously] "You're Cowan!" (like "cow")
20:08:44 <jcowan> <jcowan> It stuck, and spread to his brothers and sisters, too.
20:08:44 <jcowan> <jcowan> My wife quite likes it, and is even more vociferous in enforcing the correct pronunciation than I am.
20:08:48 <jcowan> ]]]
20:08:49 <sbp> heh, heh. I know how that goes, but just because the numbers around here are confusing
20:09:08 <sbp> ah, thanks, but I'm using a dircproxy instance which gets repeated to me automatically when I join
20:09:15 <jcowan> Oh, sorry.
20:09:23 <sbp> no problem at all; thanks for the consideration
20:09:27 <sbp> there are also logs:
20:09:30 <sbp> loggy: pointer?
20:09:30 <sbp> See http://swhack.com/logs/2004-05-19#T20-09-30
20:10:06 <bjoern_> *** bjoern_ has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
20:10:23 <sbp> hmm. I'm suddenly getting rather worried hoping that someone informed you this is a publically logged channel... ah, yes, you read the FAQ
20:10:26 <bjoern_> *** bjoern_ (~bjoern@213.23.52.98) has joined #swhack
20:10:52 <jcowan> I pretty well assume that everything I say on the 'net except private email is logged somewhere, and I can't be too sure about the private email, either.
20:11:01 <sbp> heh, indeed
20:11:11 <jcowan> Fortunately, I have few secrets of my own, and I deal with other people's secrets by forgetting them.
20:11:41 <jeremiah> *** jeremiah has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
20:12:14 <sbp> see also: http://www.aaronsw.com/2002/continuity
20:12:26 <sbp> forgetting secrets is indeed the best defence
20:13:08 <sbp> oh, perhaps he removed the bit about publishing his hard drives to the WEb
20:13:13 <sbp> s/WEb/Web/
20:13:23 <sbp> AaronSw? are you actually around?
20:13:50 <jcowan> Nope, still there.
20:14:01 <jcowan> You and I have something else in common: being virtual executors.
20:14:06 <sbp> oh whoops; so it is
20:14:13 <jcowan> I wonder how many others there are?
20:14:33 <sbp> hmm. for whom are you a virtual executor, if you may say?
20:14:40 <jcowan> ESR.
20:14:43 <sbp> oh!
20:14:52 <sbp> the very original
20:15:01 <sbp> pleased to meet you
20:15:16 <jcowan> Meased to pleat *you*.
20:15:52 <sbp> Mease \Mease\, n. [Cf. G. mass measure.]
20:15:52 <sbp> Five hundred; as, a mease of herrings. [Prov. Eng.]
20:16:22 <sbp> nice word that, but I'll have forgotten it by bedtime this evening
20:16:57 <jcowan> If youth only knew, if age only could.
20:17:51 <jcowan> I do hope I'll never have to take over the Jargon File. Quux is older than either Eric or me.
20:18:19 <sbp> heh. I've been avoiding that question, but I think that my curiousity has finally obliterated my common courtesy: may I ask how old you are? the birthdate of your father started me down that line of thinking...
20:18:53 <sbp> (shame that tuxedo.org is out. and aye, the Jargon File must be a monster task to maintain)
20:19:08 <jcowan> Eric moved to catb.org.
20:19:16 <kpreid> * kpreid . o O ( cat.borg )
20:19:24 <jcowan> Born 1958-07-02, so almost 46.
20:19:52 <jcowan> Eric was born in 1957, so we are contemporaries.
20:20:28 <sbp> ah, ESR preserved all his paths. that's useful
20:20:31 <jcowan> As I understand it, the tuxedo.org sysadmin turfed Eric out, but I don't (need to) know why.
20:20:38 <sbp> * sbp was ust trying to get to http://catb.org/~esr/continuity.html
20:20:46 <jcowan> Most of 'em. Inside the Jargon File things are different now.
20:20:53 <jeremiah> *** jeremiah (~chatzilla@ip68-228-138-252.hr.hr.cox.net) has joined #swhack
20:21:04 <sbp> yeah. Aaron contacted the sysadmin about that, but it appears to be a long complicated story that it's best not to know
20:21:06 <jcowan> Not so much technically hard, as the focus of controversy.
20:21:15 <jcowan> Many ESR stories have that property.
20:21:24 <sbp> heh, yes
20:21:37 <jcowan> Indeed, all those properties.
20:21:54 <sbp> * sbp tries to browse and chat
20:22:01 <sbp> so in what capacity do you know ESR?
20:22:36 <jcowan> I wrote to him long ago asking him something about Teenage Mutant Ninja Netnews (an offshoot of B news that didn't go anywhere).
20:23:09 <jcowan> Then I forgot he existed, but he sent me a pointer to -gua\spi, Jim Carter's offshoot of Loglan.
20:23:35 <jcowan> And that led to the Lojban list, which he was serving as Lord of the Instrumentality for.
20:24:03 <sbp> I really enjoy going back over correspondence with friends from before I knew them well: the perceptions I had of them prima facie are quite hilarious sometimes
20:24:38 <sbp> oh, and on Lojban: did you see the Borges article that Talliesin and I came across the other day?
20:24:50 <MoiraA> *** MoiraA (~moira@ACBDDBAF.ipt.aol.com) has joined #swhack
20:25:19 <sbp> hey there Moira
20:25:33 <MoiraA> hello sbp!
20:26:11 <sam__> *** sam__ is now known as UnknownQ
20:26:22 <MoiraA> back from Oxford
20:26:35 <jcowan> * jcowan scratches his head.
20:26:58 <sbp> Moira: did you enjoy yourself? how's your daughter getting on in her studies? what did you see?
20:27:02 <sbp> * sbp looks for the piece
20:27:05 <MoiraA> had a great time
20:27:10 <MoiraA> she was 21 yesterday
20:27:17 <sbp> The Analytical Language of John Wilkins: http://www.crockford.com/wrrrld/wilkins.html
20:27:30 <MoiraA> we went punting today and I fell in the river :(
20:27:46 <MoiraA> so far my phone, digital camera aren't working
20:27:52 <MoiraA> and I lost my sunglasses :(
20:28:00 <sbp> only peripherally related, but thought I'd best show you it in the almost inconceivable chance that you're not previously aware of it
20:28:01 <jcowan> Ow ow ow ow. ~~ sympathy ~~
20:28:06 <sbp> ouch indeed!
20:28:12 <MoiraA> I'm hoping they might dry out
20:28:14 <jcowan> It's being discussed on Lojban list at this very instant.
20:28:26 <sbp> ha. okay then
20:28:51 <jcowan> * jcowan was thinking "Is he talking about the stuff on Lojban List? He must be, but how???"
20:28:57 <jcowan> GMTA.
20:29:09 <sbp> Moira: my experiences of water + electronic goods are surpisingly good; they tend to come back, but just work rather intermittently
20:29:34 <jcowan> The computer at Yeshiva University (in NYC) was said to be so flaky that if it were taken out and
20:29:43 <sbp> heh, heh. GHMM etc., but it's also quite possible for me to be subscribed to the lojban list
20:29:45 <jcowan> dumped in the river, it would only sink intermittently.
20:30:12 <MoiraA> yeah, I fell in twice actually
20:30:17 <sbp> I'm not since I'm not subscribed to any lists at the moment: spam and DNS problems crippled my main email box, so I moved everything elsewhere and am yet to subscribe. am wanting to pick and choose...
20:30:28 <MoiraA> once when I was punting, then I tried to climb out so I could walk back and slipped on the bank
20:30:28 <sbp> Moira: didn't you learn from the first time you went in that you'd get wet? :-)
20:30:45 <MoiraA> that was when my camera etc got wet because my whole handbag went underwater
20:30:57 <sbp> hmm
20:31:01 <MoiraA> I had to walk up the high street covered in mud and slime
20:31:03 <jcowan> Next time, bring large zip-lock bag.
20:31:06 <MoiraA> v. embarrassing
20:31:22 <MoiraA> the water was freezing
20:31:25 <sbp> you'd think they'd make more waterproof cameras--it's irritating to not be able to confidently take photos in the rain
20:31:36 <jcowan> Waterproof = more $$$.
20:31:37 <MoiraA> I couldn't climb out where I fell in and had to swimm quite a way
20:31:53 <MoiraA> I had such heavy clothes on too, suede shoes, cord trousers etc
20:32:02 <JibberJim> *** JibberJim (JimLey@dsl-217-155-143-65.zen.co.uk) has joined #swhack
20:32:02 <sbp> yeah... you can get them but as you say, the cost isn't worth it. who'd've thunk hermically sealing a camera would be that bloody expensive?
20:32:17 <MoiraA> I'm hoping the camera might recover with a new battery
20:32:20 <sbp> did any of your boatmates fall out too?
20:32:23 <sbp> hey there Jim!
20:32:28 <MoiraA> no
20:32:36 <MoiraA> there was my husband and Louise
20:32:51 <MoiraA> Derek didn't move from the inside of the boat and Louise did slip in actually at the end
20:33:00 <MoiraA> but didn't get completely immersed
20:33:08 <MoiraA> I more or less did a headfirst dive
20:33:25 <MoiraA> the water's quite deep, I sank several feet before surfacing
20:33:38 <sbp> how did you fall out?
20:33:42 <jcowan> sbp: you know Peter da Silva's line on verbogeny?
20:33:54 <sbp> jcowan: no; enlighten me, por favor?
20:33:55 <MoiraA> I was standing on the boat, trying my hand at punting (which I'm not very good at)
20:34:04 <MoiraA> it gets a bit wet and slippy anyway
20:34:11 <MoiraA> we hit the bank and I lost my balance
20:34:16 <jcowan> "Verbogeny is one of the pleasurettes of a creatific thinkerizer."
20:34:18 <JibberJim> *** JibberJim has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:34:20 <JibberJim> *** JibberJim (JimLey@dsl-217-155-143-65.zen.co.uk) has joined #swhack
20:34:20 <MoiraA> I didn't even see us hitting the bank so I wasn't expecting it
20:34:37 <sbp> oh, actually I have seen that before somewhere
20:35:08 <jcowan> * jcowan scratches his head furiously, and recalls that there's a safety rule about not standing up in boats ... but perhaps they do these things differently in Rightpondia.
20:35:13 <sbp> probably just in a quotes file. who is Da Silva?
20:35:22 <sbp> Rightpondia.., heh
20:35:28 <sbp> .gc Rightpondia
20:35:29 <xena> Rightpondia: 54
20:35:38 <sbp> .gc Dextropondia
20:35:38 <xena> no results found.
20:35:42 <sbp> pfft
20:35:55 <JibberJim> if you can't stand up in boats, how do you get to the bar?
20:36:05 <kpreid> needs a google-groups-count
20:36:07 <sbp> and you sank several feet even though you hit a bank?
20:36:07 <MoiraA> haha
20:36:10 <kpreid> 1,950
20:36:15 <MoiraA> yes, the bank is quite high
20:36:17 <sbp> 1950? hmm
20:36:24 <MoiraA> too high to climb out
20:36:34 <MoiraA> the boat didn't sink, just me
20:36:53 <MoiraA> if the camera ever recovers I'll let you see a picture
