00:00:45 <jeremiah> *** jeremiah (~chatzilla@va-blacksburgcuda1cable2e-162.chvlva.adelphia.net) has joined #swhack
00:00:56 <jeremiah> hi all
00:03:50 <sbp> hey there jeremiah
00:04:06 <jeremiah> what up?
00:06:14 <jeremiah> i got the IBM job i've been raving about forever
00:11:16 <d8uv> woot!
00:11:20 <d8uv> Go you!
00:11:43 <sbp> ah, well done!
00:11:59 <jeremiah> for the WebSphere Portal group
00:12:43 <jeremiah> just now having a very hard time convincing myself to do the homework for my two summer courses that i'll be leaving in a few days
00:12:53 <jeremiah> should be sure about the job before i withdraw though, i figure
00:14:30 <sbp> yeah. how long will you be at your position there?
00:14:51 <xover> *** xover (~link@thumper.tj.unn.no) has joined #swhack
00:15:02 <jeremiah> 6 months
00:15:08 <jeremiah> from "asap" until december
00:15:15 <sbp> heh. ASAP sounds good
00:16:07 <jeremiah> it will be a lot of teamwork experience, which will be really good i think
00:16:30 <jeremiah> everyone technical i've talked to has said to take it, and then my mom and brother are like "oh but what if you're out of school and then you get drafted?"
00:22:35 <xover> There's a draft on?
00:24:20 <jeremiah> no they expect one to be opened
00:24:35 <jeremiah> i have to go do homework
00:24:58 <sbp> xover: <jeremiah> i got the IBM job i've been raving about forever
00:27:08 <xover> Ah, cool! Congrats jeremiah!
00:27:17 <jeremiah> thank you
00:29:04 <xover> Heh: …
00:29:06 <xover> [[[
00:29:06 <xover> Filtered: 67368 Good Messages, 7773 Spam Messages (10%)
00:29:06 <xover> Corpus: 6993 Good Messages, 17944 Spam Messages (72%), 354434 Words
00:29:06 <xover> Accuracy: 17 False Positives, 0 False Negatives (0%), 100.0% Correct
00:29:06 <xover> Since: 2004-03-11 20:00
00:29:07 <xover> ]]] -- SpamSieve Statistics
00:29:23 <xover> Note the "100.0% Correct" bit. :-)
00:31:54 <d8uv> Hehe. Nice.
00:34:55 <NickServ> This nickname is owned by someone else
00:34:55 <NickServ> If this is your nickname, type /msg NickServ IDENTIFY <password>
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00:46:18 <MoiraA> nn
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01:34:44 <Monty> yo Sunir!
01:36:39 <UnknownQ> yo Monty!
01:36:42 <Monty> It seems that exhibitionism is outstanding!!!
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02:45:40 <sbp> heh, missed this before: <jsled> I feel like such a loser ... about the time I try to move from wiki -> mt, everyone's moving from mt -> {wp/drupal/&c.}
02:45:43 <sbp> poor jsled
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03:02:08 <UnknownQ> anybody know of a short story where the main character/speaker (first person story) turns about to be jack the ripper?
03:03:14 <UnknownQ> i read that story back in the day... it was my first big twist ending
03:04:11 <sbp> no, but sounds interesting so please let me know if you find out!
03:04:42 <UnknownQ> got it. google rocks
03:05:09 <UnknownQ> i think...
03:05:36 <UnknownQ> "yours truly, jack the ripper" by robert bloch in 1943
03:05:56 <sbp> ta
03:06:05 <sbp> now wait a minute
03:06:13 <sbp> wasn't the title a bit of a give away?
03:06:44 <UnknownQ> that's what i'm thinking... thus the sceptisism... seeing if i can get the text of it
03:06:55 <sbp> * sbp nods
03:07:46 <UnknownQ> yup. it's definately the one i'm thinking of
03:07:58 <UnknownQ> this gives a better synopsis: http://www.casebook.org/dissertations/dst-bloch.html
03:08:34 <UnknownQ> sorry, kinda ruined the story for you :-)
03:09:32 <sbp> oh well. I wouldn't've come across it otherwise
03:09:41 <sbp> and anyway, I tend to read book titles :-)
03:11:20 <UnknownQ> i dunno... i don't remember it giving it away... but then i was younger then
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03:45:59 <jsled> yeah!
03:46:03 <jsled> Poor me!
03:49:26 <jsled> sbp: FWIW, [[[ <sbp> if you're confused, then you probably get it ]]] is great, though excuse the cross-citation from #rdfig.
03:50:22 <sbp> heh. yes, formulae just seem to have that sort of effect on people
03:50:37 <jsled> heh.
03:50:39 <jsled> g'night
03:50:45 <sbp> 'night jsled
03:56:10 <d8uv> Ugh. I hate photographers.
04:09:13 <sbp> why's that?
04:18:47 <d8uv> Oh, heh, posting an awesome comment.
04:20:04 <d8uv> I went out to take pictures in my "backyard". Professional photographer with models in tow were shooting at the same spot I was going to.
04:21:59 <sbp> er, okay
04:25:28 <d8uv> There was smugness!
04:25:50 <sbp> hehe
04:26:29 <d8uv> There was condensendment!
04:27:00 <deltab> condescension
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06:17:40 <sbp> hey there jill. welcome back!
06:17:50 <jillium> Hi, Sean!
06:17:52 <sbp> kandinski and I, and probably some silent others, were getting worried about you
06:17:59 <jillium> worried? oh, dear.
06:18:07 <jillium> I've been a bit ill, but not ill enough to worry about.
06:18:23 <sbp> * sbp subworries
06:18:29 <sbp> hope you're better now
06:18:33 <jillium> mostly.
06:18:44 <jillium> trying to figure out a way to get to Berkeley to help a friend move this weekend.
06:18:55 <jillium> Heh. I just realized I've never actually met this friend in person. I love my life.
06:19:23 <sbp> hmm. how far is it from where you are? can you cycle there, perhaps--is it under 300 miles?
06:19:35 <jillium> you think in miles?
06:19:40 <jillium> * jillium looks up the distance
06:21:32 <sbp> almost all Brits do
06:22:10 <jillium> it's about 46 miles
06:22:15 <jillium> call it 50
06:22:24 <sbp> heh, that actually is cyclable then
06:22:34 <jillium> it's a long ride, but yes.
06:22:37 <sbp> yeah
06:23:11 <jillium> It's much longer than that by bike: those are freeway miles.
06:23:37 <jillium> (that's 110 km for those readers who are REAL Europeans :)
06:24:42 <d8uv> Hmm... do parentheses in emoticons count as real emoticons?
06:24:56 <jillium> yes
06:24:59 <jillium> hi d8
06:25:08 <d8uv> Hello jill!
06:25:18 <jillium> http://maps.yahoo.com/dd_result?ed=xTowJeV.wimQQVd6MsEKU7USFw--&csz=berkeley%2C+CA&country=us&tcsz=mountain+view%2C+ca&tcountry=us&terr=-3001
06:25:42 <jillium> As you can see, the bike ride would involve riding over a bridge, which I've wanted to do for quite some time.
06:26:23 <jillium> As you can see from the map, I live in HELL.
06:26:24 <jillium> :)
06:26:49 <jillium> (actually, I don't particularly mind Mountain View, and I'll mind it a lot less when the train starts running on weekends again. It's been a rough two years)
06:27:58 <d8uv> Hehe. I should upload my pictures of nature
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06:30:03 <jillium> "nature? what is this of which you speak?"
06:31:18 <sbp> hmm. I didn't realise that it was so urban
06:32:31 <jillium> the part I'm in is quasi-urban. It's fairly dense here because the peninsula is relatively narrow. But further south it's just plain sprawl.
06:32:54 <jillium> so there are really cool plants, but that' sbecause it's california, not because I'm in a particularly nature-intensive place
06:33:45 <sbp> are you into photography much?
06:34:30 <jillium> I like it. I don't know if that counts as into or not. How about you?
06:34:53 <d8uv> I like my place! It has pretty nature not far away! http://d8uv.com/temp/naturepics.tar.bz2
06:41:28 <sbp> nice indeed. what are those two creates in the river/lake?
06:41:33 <sbp> one is a bird of some kind
06:44:22 <d8uv> One is a spring-fed creek. My "backyard"
06:44:42 <d8uv> The other is Cheney Lake, which is not as pretty as it seems.
06:44:55 <sbp> sorta odd given how much you compla... right
06:45:41 <sbp> s/creates/creatures/
06:46:24 <d8uv> There shouldn't really be any creatures aside from germs and mosquitos in the creek.
06:46:32 <d8uv> In the lake there are birds.
06:47:22 <d8uv> (PS, the photographer was on the other side of the path. Same creek)
06:48:21 <d8uv> Cheney Lake would be beautiful if there were creeks still feeding it.
06:48:50 <d8uv> Development of the area, however made the lake into a stagnant overgrown pond.
06:49:25 <sbp> ponds, even with stagnancy, are pretty nice too no?
06:49:43 <jillium> I suck. I don't have bzip installed and I'm too tired to install it. Wow, do I suck.
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07:05:26 <d8uv> Night!
07:05:39 <sbp> 'night d8uv!
07:05:40 <jillium> nightttttt!
07:05:52 <sbp> send jillium a tarball of bzip through the post
07:05:55 <sbp> printed out
07:06:03 <sbp> in base32 encoded gzip and tar
07:06:11 <sbp> in 8 pt Courier New
07:06:14 <sbp> purple
07:06:16 <jillium> * jillium laughs
07:06:31 <sbp> and that paper had better be watermarked!
07:06:52 <sbp> and folded into origami cat shapes
07:07:17 <sbp> with glued on cotton whiskers
07:07:35 <sbp> probably best to use a soy based glue, though
07:07:46 <sbp> or sellotape
07:08:13 <sbp> not that cheap crappy sellotape, though. get the good stuff
07:08:21 <sbp> jill's origami cats deserve it
07:08:35 <jillium> yeah
07:16:21 <sbp> well
07:16:28 <sbp> it turns out that I'm going to bed
07:16:34 <jillium> yeah, me too
07:16:36 <sbp> nice to have you back in Swhack again, jill!
07:16:42 <jillium> yay, thanks
07:16:45 <jillium> nice to see you
07:16:50 <sbp> cool. hope you're feeling 100% again soon
07:16:54 <sbp> likewise. 'night!
07:17:00 <jillium> zzzzzzzzzz
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09:24:54 <Talliesin> * Talliesin returns
09:24:56 <Talliesin> Good morning dearhearts. How are all today?
09:25:29 <kandinski> hi T
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09:49:59 <Monty> welcome, bjoern_
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13:15:20 <jsled> loggy: pointer
13:15:20 <jsled> See http://swhack.com/logs/2004-05-26#T13-15-20
13:15:35 <jsled> gah. fucking Evo.
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13:53:11 <kandinski> jsled, just had lunch with my friend Lorenzo and saw his mini-book about Möebius
13:53:16 <kandinski> the one he just wrote
13:53:29 <kandinski> do you like Möebius and Giraud and Gir?
13:58:15 <jsled> * jsled has no idea what you're talking about.
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14:14:04 <evangineer> kandinski means Moebius
14:14:37 <evangineer> the topic must be bandes desinees aka comic books
14:15:20 <evangineer> european comics are very different from the american ones. none of the obsession with superheroes.
14:17:04 <evangineer> much broader genre coverage and can be quite intellectual
14:18:04 <evangineer> * evangineer hasn't read much european material
14:18:12 <evangineer> but what I've read, I've liked
14:18:27 <evangineer> @metabarons++
14:20:14 <evangineer> @incal++
14:21:26 <evangineer> jodorowsky is clearly a mad genius from his comics. I've not seen any of his movies.
14:29:45 <kandinski> right, the umlaut was totally wack
14:29:49 <kandinski> not swhack
14:29:57 <kandinski> jodorowsky is a genious
14:30:31 <kandinski> *** kandinski has changed the topic to: Worse to baron things than to meta-baron 'em!
14:31:02 <kandinski> Moeious also drew a series of westerns under the pen name Gir (his surname is Giraud), written by Charlier
14:31:18 <kandinski> Lieutenant Blueberry
14:32:05 <Ash> boing
14:48:05 <kandinski> bong
14:48:58 <kandinski> evangineer, have you read The Long Tomorrow?
14:49:17 <evangineer> no, who's it by?
14:50:23 <evangineer> ah, Moebius
14:51:04 <evangineer> some scans here which I'll have to check out later http://www.ultrawet.net/10cent/scan/moebius/ltm/moebius-ltm1.htm
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14:51:32 <Monty> hi Sunir, how ya doing?
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14:54:43 <Morbus> eh oh
14:59:03 <Ash> EH OH
14:59:04 <Ash> hi morbus
14:59:17 <Morbus> hey.
15:03:26 <Ash> how are you doing lately?
15:07:48 <Morbus> eh.
15:07:57 <Morbus> there's always something i'd rather be doing.
15:08:24 <Ash> that's the way it always is
15:13:19 <Ash> the trick is to procrastinate on things
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15:32:09 <kandinski> well, I procrastinate faster and more efficienty than other people
15:32:16 <kandinski> that is my competitive streak
15:32:28 <kandinski> right now I am procrastinating and you are not
15:32:31 <kandinski> see?
15:32:54 <Ash> yeah right
15:32:59 <Ash> i'm totally procrastinating
15:37:59 <Talliesin> Perserverance pays off in the end, but procrastination pays off now.
15:38:46 <Ash> and in the end, if you time it right
15:40:19 <kandinski> exactly
15:40:47 <kandinski> although if you do all your procrastination in the first 15 minutes of your day, then the rest is even more productive
15:41:00 <kandinski> that is why the first thing I do is fire up my browser
15:41:23 <kandinski> 15 minutes later, my procrastinating has been so good that I decide to keep at it a little longer
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16:02:57 <redmonk> swhack
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16:03:52 <Ash> RED MONKEY
16:03:56 <redmonk> ASH
16:04:04 <redmonk> CRIMSON FRIAR
16:04:10 <redmonk> MONACO ROUGE
16:04:23 <redmonk> FRÉRE ROUGE
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16:04:54 <Ash> KABOOM
16:07:14 <eikeon> Anyone running Eclipse 3.0 on OS X?
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17:39:15 <sbp> that's a shame: @import doesn't work in style attributes
17:39:16 <sbp> http://www.aaronsw.com/2002/display?t=%3Cstyle+type%3D%22text%2Fcss%22%3E%0D%0A%40import+url%28data%3Atext%2Fcss%2Cp%7Bcolor%3Ablue%3B%7D%29%3B+%0D%0A%3C%2Fstyle%3E%0D%0A%0D%0A%3Cp%3ETesting.%3C%2Fp%3E%0D%0A%0D%0A%3Cdiv+style%3D%22%40import+url%28data%3Atext%2Fcss%2Cdiv%7Bcolor%3Ablue%3B%7D%29%3B%22%3ETesting.%3C%2Fdiv%3E%0D%0A
18:01:51 <jcowan> tinyurl is your friend here.
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18:05:17 <Morbus> tinyurl is never your friend.
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18:10:21 <Monty> yo bjoern_!
18:20:18 <sbp> if you're really got at un hex encoding URIs in your head (the Web equivalent of mental arithmetic), you can read the source without even following the link! at least it wasn't base32 encoded, or gzipped...
18:20:40 <sbp> er, really good rather
18:22:23 <sbp> though URIs are meant to be opaque, I don't like to obfuscate the targets if I can help it. that link was a bit larger that I'd expected it to be, but at least you can work out roughly what the target is before you click
18:23:06 <sbp> it'd be good if there were a service that tried to retain some of the information in the URI. e.g. http://suri.tld/aaronsw.com-display-o85uqf
18:23:14 <sbp> though that's not particularly short
18:24:10 <sbp> some services do let you suggest your own shortnames, IIRC
18:24:49 <sbp> and I prefer MeRS (short, pronouncable, soft, strong, lots) to purely random alphanumerics
18:25:14 <sbp> .g koremutake
18:25:15 <phenny> koremutake: http://shorl.com/koremutake.php
18:26:34 <sbp> and then there are persistance issues. I couldn't registered a PURL for the above; bounty points to anyone who can come up with a bookmarklet for easily creating PURLs out of URIs
18:26:43 <sbp> s/couldn't/could've/
18:27:04 <sbp> s/ance/ence/
18:27:21 <sbp> abysmal typing today brought to you courtesy of coldness and tiredness
18:29:06 <Morbus> AHAHAHAHAHAHAH
18:29:08 <jcowan> xchat handles long URIs well, but some other tools don't, notably the *term I use.
18:29:09 <Morbus> YOU SO FUNNY SBP
18:29:13 <Morbus> I STICK MY PYTHON IN YE BUM
18:29:20 <jcowan> I wasn't very good at mental arithmetic either.
18:30:00 <jcowan> MeR: eh?
18:30:12 <jcowan> or is it MeRS?
18:30:29 <redmonk> * redmonk is listening to 05Belong by 03R.E.M. from 10Out Of Time.
18:30:32 <sbp> no, I always relied on calculators. I could integrate rotations of solids in 30 seconds flat, but ask me what 13 * 17 is and I'd just stare blankly at you for about a minute before walking off
18:30:38 <sbp> MeRS. Memorable Random Strings
18:31:21 <Morbus> [[[
18:31:21 <Morbus> [14:30] <Morbus> modifable, for me.
18:31:21 <Morbus> [14:30] <Vertice> but i like words like 'deprecate' , and 'obfuscate'
18:31:21 <Morbus> [14:30] <Morbus> i have no clue what the hell "mutable" means.
18:31:21 <Morbus> [14:30] <Morbus> and i'm amerikkkan.
18:31:22 <Morbus> [14:30] <Vertice> modifable isn't a word yank boy =)
18:31:24 <Morbus> [14:31] <killes> JonBob: changeable
18:31:26 <Morbus> [14:31] <Morbus> sure it is. its when they take the original fables and make them all disney and boring and shit ;)
18:31:29 <Morbus> ]]]
18:31:57 <deltab> morbiffable
18:32:10 <Morbus> heh!
18:32:56 <deltab> what was that about?
18:33:07 <Morbus> [14:29] <JonBob> For programmers internationally, is "modifiable," "changeable," "mutable," or "customizable" the best word to use 01for a menu item the admin can alter?
18:33:46 <redmonk> *** redmonk has left #swhack
18:33:49 <sbp> *** sbp has changed the topic to: To Swhack, to that home of Morbiffable delights, a nook wherein the bytes play and the fables are as yes undisneyfied.
18:34:13 <sbp> *** sbp has changed the topic to: To Swhack, to that home of Morbiffable delights, a nook wherein the bytes play and the fables are as yet undisneyfied.
18:34:22 <sbp> any more typos wanna try me on, eh?!
18:37:07 <Ash> SPB
18:37:40 <sbp> heh
18:38:10 <Ash> hi
18:38:12 <Ash> what's up
18:38:15 <Ash> all robots
18:38:17 <sbp> "spb" is almost an acceptable variation of my nickname through consensus
18:40:03 <Ash> yeah
18:40:20 <sbp> on the agenda today are many, many things. there are approximately factorial(78) programs I could be writing, though the reverse wiki--much to Morbus' inevitable grumblings--is the most interesting, a few articles that I need to finish by June, and also the Swhack FAQ and letter to Everson that I've been avoiding for days now
18:40:44 <Ash> What's a reverse wiki?
18:40:51 <Ash> (other than ikiw, i mean)
18:41:36 <sbp> heheh. ikiw might be a nice name for it. for wikis, the concept is that you use a non-markup based structured text format and it gets converted to HTML on the server side
18:42:04 <sbp> but I predominantly like to author in HTML, but with a few shortcuts--e.g. em dashes, variables to insert the current date, and so on
18:42:50 <sbp> so I thought I'd hack on something that does that, and a few other things I have up my sleeve
18:45:11 <jcowan> I figured how to create PURLs.
18:45:31 <sbp> oh?
18:46:26 <jcowan> It's clean contrary to the Web architecture, but dereferencing
18:47:32 <sbp> (that reminds me: I keep meaning to write a generic GET -> POST gateway...)
18:48:38 <sbp> [explanation deleted from the logs]
18:48:40 <jcowan> with appropriate substitutions for SHORTNAME and ANYURL (NET is fixed) will create the purl http://www.purl.org/NET/SHORTNAME.
18:48:50 <sbp> ah, that's rather easy then!
18:49:29 <jcowan> And maintainable by the #swhack community. I have added the appropriate hint to the swhack account.
18:49:52 <sbp> oh, you set up a swhack account too? wow
18:50:10 <sbp> * sbp tests it
18:50:25 <jcowan> viz: "If you give a flying ___ ___, you'll fit right in."
18:51:08 <sbp> [[[
18:51:08 <sbp> Unable to authenticate user.
18:51:08 <sbp> Either the ID or Password was not specified.
18:51:09 <sbp> ]]]
18:51:28 <jcowan> Did you unpack the %20 sequence?
18:51:44 <sbp> and heh, that's a good hint
18:51:57 <sbp> %20 is just a space, isn't it? it's in there as is
18:52:08 <jcowan> Type it as a space when logging in.
18:52:34 <jcowan> Oh, wait, what are you testing exactly?
18:52:51 <sbp> well, I'm using the URI you pasted--with the intention of creating a bookmarklet out of it that uses document.location and prompts for a shortname
18:52:53 <jcowan> Arrgh, )@#$* *@#$up.
18:52:58 <jcowan> s/user/id.
18:53:03 <sbp> ah, thanks!
18:53:03 <jcowan> s/user/id/
18:53:59 <sbp> whoops, I need to double encode the URI
18:54:12 <jcowan> Actually it might be better to s;NET;NET/swhack in the URI to minimize purl namespace pollution.
18:55:06 <sbp> agreed
18:55:31 <jcowan> so, gonna incorporate this into swhacker?
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19:06:54 <sbp> I don't control swhacker; I'll add it to phenny, I think. just been hacking on a bookmarklet for it
19:07:36 <sbp> today's valuable lesson in JavaScript is that the string '%27' will, of course, be unencoded by the browser before being passed to the JavaScript interpreter, and hence will still be a syntax error
19:08:12 <sbp> * sbp adds it to phenny
19:10:31 <jcowan> Invoked how?
19:11:58 <sbp> the bookmarklet? depends what browser you're using; in Mozilla I created a new HTML document with a link to javascript:... and dragged the link to the bookmarks toolbar
19:11:58 <jcowan> I meant 'invoked from phenny how?'
19:11:58 <sbp> ah, sorry
19:12:02 <sbp> it'll be: .purl shortname URI
19:19:45 <phenny> *** phenny has quit (Remote closed the connection)
19:20:02 <phenny> *** phenny (sbp@vorpal.notabug.com) has joined #swhack
19:20:38 <sbp> .purl svnbook http://svnbook.red-bean.com/svnbook/
19:20:38 <phenny> There was an error creating svnbook
19:20:56 <jcowan> How helpful, phenny. More details, please?
19:21:19 <deltab> maybe Monty can explain why
19:21:19 <sbp> more details logged to Vorpal :-) I forgot to s/user/id/
19:21:23 <Monty> writing is allack's business contract is such a phone at it seems.
19:22:31 <sbp> .excuse
19:22:41 <sbp> oh right, I unimplemented that
19:22:43 <jcowan> *** jcowan has changed the topic to: Hacking PURLs
19:22:54 <jcowan> *** jcowan has changed the topic to: Hacking PURLs for #swhack
19:22:59 <phenny> *** phenny has quit (Remote closed the connection)
19:23:00 <phenny> *** phenny (sbp@vorpal.notabug.com) has joined #swhack
19:23:03 <jcowan> sorry, hit Enter early.
19:23:05 <sbp> .purl svnbook http://svnbook.red-bean.com/svnbook/
19:23:06 <phenny> Created http://purl.org/net/swhack-svnbook
19:23:09 <sbp> no problem
19:23:15 <sbp> whoo, it works
19:23:38 <jsled> .purl jsled http://www.asynchronous.org/
19:23:39 <phenny> Created http://purl.org/net/swhack-jsled
19:23:40 <sbp> thanks, jcowan
19:23:41 <jcowan> Yes, but it's conventional to use NET, not net.
19:23:48 <sbp> either work
19:24:01 <jcowan> Ah.
19:24:12 <jcowan> wouldn't want to be stepping on purl.org's URI space.
19:24:37 <sbp> they seem fairly laid back about it: both purl.oclc.org and purl.org work, both NET and net work
19:25:09 <jcowan> I hope that doesn't mean they're using Windows servers
19:25:11 <jcowan> * jcowan shudders.
19:25:44 <sbp> heh. Server: Apache/1.3.27
19:26:57 <sbp> and the software's unix oriented: http://purl.oclc.org/docs/purl_faq.html#toc8.5
19:27:21 <sbp> oops, I forgot to add .purl documentation
19:28:02 <jcowan> Dereferencing http://www.purl.org/maint/display.pl.cgi?id=nobody&noedit=on&maint=swhack will show all swhack PURLs.
19:28:12 <sal> *** sal (~salvatore@158.229.233.57) has joined #swhack
19:28:37 <jcowan> Could add that to .purl doco.
19:29:13 <sbp> hmm. good idea, and I could perhaps scrape a list of the shortnames for ".purl" by itself
19:29:45 <jcowan> BTW, is it p-henny or fenny? Also, when I mentioned this channel to bae on Tuesday, she immediately said "Oh, software hacks, eh?"
19:31:14 <sbp> heh. "swhack" itself is a minor controversy, but "phenny" is fenny. it's a pun on the word "phenomic", and the character Fenchurch from HHG
19:31:30 <Morbus> i laughed, i cried.
19:31:47 <sbp> he loves my puns, as you can see
19:32:04 <Morbus> i wept until morning.
19:32:05 <sbp> * sbp looks at the ircAsync.py documentation code, and despairs
19:32:14 <Morbus> * Morbus snickers.
19:32:22 <Morbus> i've been reading markp's dive into python book, sbp.
19:32:25 <Morbus> i'll be a mastah soon
19:32:31 <sbp> how creepy
19:32:41 <Morbus> how so?
19:33:16 <sbp> Python + Morbus - dignity = savings on all brand names in-store!
19:33:50 <Morbus> SUNDAY! SUNDAY! SUNDAY!
19:33:58 <sbp> heh
19:34:01 <Morbus> oh, wait, that's not right.
19:34:08 <Morbus> sunday! Sunday! SUNDAY!
19:34:11 <Morbus> there we go.
19:34:15 <jcowan> First you make up the word, then you construct puns on it. A good plan. Which came first, your usage or the games company?
19:35:00 <jcowan> It's "Sunday..Sunday..Sunday!!!" with font size increasing in each word.
19:35:12 <Morbus> do you see font size in IRC?
19:35:20 <jcowan> No, but I can dream, can't I?
19:35:46 <sbp> domain: phenomic.com
19:35:47 <sbp> created: 09-Sep-1999
19:36:35 <sbp> they beat me by a couple of years, apparently. I regret choosing "phenomic" because most of its occurances are now for a) the games company b) misspellings of "phonemic" c) the real word, adj(phenome)
19:37:00 <Morbus> anemone-phenome.com.
19:37:28 <jcowan> Before _Finnegans Wake_ was published, there was a collection of essays about it with the eccentric title of
19:37:41 <Morbus> [[[
19:37:41 <Morbus> [15:37] <Morbus> AHHAHAHAH.
19:37:41 <Morbus> [15:37] <Morbus> wait, where's mirriam?
19:37:41 <Morbus> [15:37] <Morbus> dammit. there's no chi... PATTI!
19:37:41 <Morbus> [15:37] <Morbus> OH MY GOD. ITS BEEN SO LONG.
19:37:42 <Morbus> [15:37] <Morbus> COME GIVE M07orb01Y A KISS
19:37:44 <Morbus> ]]]
19:37:55 <jcowan> _Our Exagmination round his Factification for Incamination of Work in Progress_, the last three words being Joyce's working title for the book.
19:38:32 <jcowan> Samuel Beckett's essay bore the equally eccentric, if quieter, title of "Dante ... Bruno. Vico .. Joyce".
19:38:45 <sbp> before it was published? and for a while there, I thought Morbus knew of the essays and that his quote was the title
19:39:15 <jcowan> Excerpts had been published and some people had seen parts of it in MS, but Joyce was still withholding the final title.
19:39:36 <jcowan> Each dot in the Beckett essay's title represents a century of real time.
19:40:10 <sbp> hmm. he should've provided a key
19:40:21 <sbp> "Dante ... Bruno. Vico .. Joyce [Key: . = century]"
19:40:38 <jcowan> Left it up to us to figure out (much like Joyce himself): what JJ called "the ideal reader with ideal insomnia".
19:40:57 <jcowan> That period is really just a single dot, but the publisher couldn't be expect to know that.
19:41:20 <jcowan> morbus: I do see the "orb" in Morby in a different color here.
19:41:29 <sbp> Beckett could've told him and then bribed him to keep quiet about it...
19:41:51 <jcowan> Ve never admits nossings.
19:42:35 <sbp> Morbus' IRC client highlights some strings in orangra and then preserves the colour when he copies and pastes. I've used to to good effect from time to time: http://swhack.com/logs/2004-04-02#T16-58-06
19:42:44 <sbp> orangra? hmm!
19:43:16 <Morbus> heh, i remember that.
19:43:16 <sbp> nossings?
19:43:18 <jcowan> Joyce himself contributed an essay (at least we think so) under the name of Vladimir Dixon, entitled "A Litter to Mr. James Joyce" where he refers to him(self) as "my dear Mr. Germ's Choice" and "Shame's Voice".
19:43:21 <Morbus> that's hard to read without the orange.
19:43:37 <jcowan> nossings = nothing.
19:44:04 <sbp> thanks. what's the meaning behind the names he provided for himself?
19:44:11 <sbp> if any, if fathomable...
19:44:11 <jcowan> Sarcasm.
19:44:30 <jcowan> He was assuming the role of his own first hostile critic.
19:44:42 <sbp> nothing beyond the obvious derogatory meanings then?
19:45:31 <jcowan> Not that I see.
19:45:45 <jcowan> FW is actually very readable; unfortunately, the first page (being a sort of overture) is rather tough.
19:45:52 <jcowan> Having google to hand helps.
19:46:09 <sbp> yes. there's a nice annotated version somewhere that explains the references as you go along
19:46:52 <sbp> I still think you may be the first person in history to have called Finnegans Wake "very readable"
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19:47:30 <jcowan> Well, consider this bit:
19:47:31 <Sunir_> *** Sunir_ has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
19:47:35 <jcowan> Bygmester Finnegan, of the Stuttering Hand, freemen's maurer, lived in the broadest way immarginable in his rushlit toofarback for messuages before joshuan judges had given us numbers or Helviticus committed deuteronomy (one yeastyday he sternely struxk his tete in a tub for to watsch the future of his fates but ere he swiftly stook it out again, by the might of moses, the very water was eviparated and all the guenneses had met their exodus so
19:47:35 <jcowan> that ought to show you what a pentschanjeuchy chap he was!) and during mighty odd years this man of hod, cement and edifices in Toper's Thorp piled buildung supra buildung pon the banks for the livers by the Soangso.
19:47:45 <sal> SUNIR!!! hi! welcome ba....fuck.
19:47:54 <Sunir> sal?
19:48:05 <sal> oh, heh, no so witty now, am I?
19:49:34 <sbp> that's not so bad, and from time to time a bit of genius like the "Phonio Saxo?" part will spring up
19:50:29 <jcowan> Indeed. A few notes:
19:50:40 <jcowan> Bygmester = Norwegian for "master builder" as in the Ibsen play
19:50:51 <Sunir> Finnegan's Wake is very readable?
19:50:58 <jcowan> See above, yes.
19:50:59 <sbp> Finnegans
19:51:04 <Sunir> * Sunir bites food, chews it, just to spit it out in awe.
19:51:13 <Sunir> sbp, there you go. obviously I havent' read it. ;)
19:51:34 <deltab> http://www.robotwisdom.com/jaj/fwake/shortwake.html
19:51:42 <jcowan> Bible books: Joshua, Judges, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Genesis (merged with Guiness's), Exodus, Pentateuch.
19:52:24 <jcowan> (A clever fellow, Jorn Barger.)
19:53:13 <jcowan> The phrase "Helviticus committed deuteronomy" is a dis on T.S. Eliot who while living in Switzerland stole (according to JJ) "The Waste Land" from _Ulysses_.
19:53:38 <jcowan> sternely...swiftly: Laurence Sterne, Jonathan Swift.
19:53:57 <jcowan> buildung: Eng. building x German Bildung 'education'
19:54:09 <sbp> Guinness
19:54:16 <jcowan> Sorry, yes.
19:54:30 <jcowan> Soangso: Huang Ho, China's Yellow River.
19:54:35 <jcowan> plus so-and-so
19:55:16 <sbp> Jorn's summary's pretty good; was just browing through it
19:56:02 <sbp> er, browsing. the problem is just the same as with every great work of literature: if you don't take the time to soak up the context and understand all of the references, it'll be a tenth as good
19:56:37 <sbp> except for some poetry, like the Rubaiyat
19:57:01 <jcowan> True.
19:57:34 <jcowan> BTW, the "MInd yer hats goan in" and "Mind yer boots goan out" in the Willingdone Museyroom scene shows us that the trip there is also conception/pregnancy/birth.
19:57:52 <sbp> especially true for stream-of-consciousness writing. I'll bet there are as many in jokes and private references in FW that aren't understood as there are overt ones
19:59:12 <jcowan> Almost certainly not.
19:59:19 <sbp> why so?
19:59:37 <jcowan> The construction mechanism of the book is known: Joyce copied phrases into his commonplace books and crossed them off when he had used them.
19:59:59 <sbp> right. I've seen some of them
20:00:20 <jcowan> He clearly meant everything to be understood: the distortions are basically a matter of compression.
20:00:41 <jcowan> The Law Lecture in III.iv is in plain English, e.g., because it couldn't merge with anything else.
20:00:55 <pir_zzzs> *** pir_zzzs is now known as pir
20:01:09 <sbp> but you don't think that in his own synthesis of the phrases there would have been some sub-conscious undercurrent?
20:01:34 <jcowan> The Law Lecture in Finnegans Wake (scroll down to "Honuphrius is a concupiscent exservicemajor"): http://joycean.org/index.php?work=74
20:01:35 <swhacker> posted 373
20:01:47 <sbp> even in my plainest of writings, when I go back to them I usually recognize motivating factors and references that I know nobody else will be aware of
20:02:08 <jcowan> Fair enough. But he didn't *insert* private references on purpose.
20:02:13 <inkel> *** inkel has quit ()
20:02:50 <jcowan> 373: "Has he hegemony and shall she submit?" Answers: yes and no respectively.
20:03:57 <jcowan> 373: That lecture was on canon law, the following one is on civil law.
20:05:10 <jcowan> 373:The line "The jury (a sour dozen of stout fellows all of whom were curiously named after doyles) naturally disagreed jointly and severally, and the belligerent judge, disagreeing with the allied jurors' disagreement, went outside his jurisfiction altogether and ordered a garnishee attachment to the neutral firm" is particularly characteristic.
20:06:16 <jcowan> My father, law professor, philosopher, and Waker (I come by my predilections honestly) wrote an article about all this called (unimaginatively) "FW and the Law"
20:06:42 <sbp> Waker?
20:06:45 <sbp> Waker
20:07:23 <xover> I'm up!
20:07:49 <sbp> there are rather a lot of characters to follow in the Canon Law part
20:09:59 <xover> jcowan: "Bygmester" must be Danish. In normalized current Norwegian it would be spelled "Byggmester". Just BTW.
20:10:20 <jcowan> Yeah, but it just sounds so weird to say that Ibsen wrote in Danish.
20:10:43 <jcowan> In his day the orthographic split hadn't happened yet, IIRC.
20:11:37 <sbp> affrication? "should practise a pious fraud during affrication"
20:11:40 <xover> In his day, the Danes were still holding their clammy hands well intertwined in .no social and cultural life.
20:11:44 <sbp> the dictionary defintion doesn't seem to help
20:15:28 <Ash> AFRICATION
20:15:48 <sbp> possessing a conjunct in thirtynine several manners is rather obtuse too
20:15:49 <jcowan> I'm not sure what he means by it. One key to the Canon Law Lecture is that what sounds dirty almost certainly isn't.
20:16:06 <sbp> ah, I see
20:16:30 <sbp> which also explains "comminates" earlier on in the same sentence
20:16:34 <jcowan> 39 surely refers to the 39 articles.
20:16:51 <sbp> ah. http://web.singnet.com.sg/~kohfly/articles.html
20:17:30 <sbp> better one: http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1571-39articles.html
20:18:33 <jcowan> One theory about the origin of "forty winks" is that it means a nap during the reading of the xxxix articles and a little longer. Se non e vero, e ben trovato.
20:19:15 <jcowan> xover: well, at least they weren't passing on the potato.
20:24:00 <xover> * xover sees the reference passing way way over his head and doesn't even bother reaching for it...
20:24:03 <sbp> * sbp googles about a bit for the etymology of forty winks, but doesn't find anything conclusive other than 'Forty winks "short sleep" is attested from 1828' - http://www.etymonline.com/f4etym.htm
20:28:51 <jcowan> xover: The potato that Danes have in their mouths that prevent them from speaking proper.
20:29:07 <xover> Ah. :-)
20:30:07 <xover> * xover was expecting a "Potato Revolution" or "Potato Plague" or something along those lines...
20:30:18 <jcowan> In a post once I said "Cheapinghaven" instead of "Copenhagen" just to amuse myself, and thorinn corrected it to "Cheapmanhaven". I apologized, and told him I hadn't been able to make out the "-mann-" part through the potato.
20:30:29 <jcowan> s/said/wrote
20:30:57 <xover> heh
20:32:27 <sbp> http://listserv.brown.edu/archives/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0310b&L=conlang&F=&S=&P=10687
20:32:59 <jcowan> He then asked the list to speculate on how his name ("Lars Mathiesen") was pronounced; I retorted "[l@:m@?@?@]" (? = stod, @ = schwa). He said, "It probably does sound like that to foreigners."
20:33:33 <xover> Hmm, actually, I think there is very little potato in that name.
20:33:49 <jcowan> sbp: forty winks is probably much older; it's the kind of thing that doesn't get into print at first.
20:34:10 <sbp> * sbp nods
20:34:18 <sal> everything was not in print at first...he said, nitpicking.
20:34:34 <jcowan> Brain fart: s/at first/for a long time/
20:34:51 <sbp> surely plenty of words are coined in typing before speech?
20:35:08 <sbp> in fact demonstrationalizably so
20:35:11 <jcowan> hing, froup, grilf come to mind at once.
20:35:15 <sal> surely, but they exist in one's head before they exist in print ;)
20:35:48 <jcowan> Not nwcesswrly. I doubt the first user of "grilf" intended to make a neologism.
20:35:56 <xover> And there are things that predate IRC... :-)
20:36:05 <jcowan> Telegraphy, e.g.
20:36:06 <sbp> "grilf // n. Girlfriend. Like newsfroup and filk, a typo reincarnated as a new word. Seems to have originated sometime in 1992 on Usenet."
20:36:13 <sal> intent and thought are two paths in this case.
20:36:45 <sal> two different paths, that is.
20:37:08 <sbp> [[[
20:37:08 <sbp> Is it cuz grils are scared of the computer? Scared of the net?
20:37:08 <sbp> Or maybe grils just don't have angst as much, since it's usually
20:37:08 <sbp> easier for them to find a boyf then it is for guys to find a grilf.
20:37:13 <sbp> ]]] - http://groups.google.com/groups?q=grilf&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&scoring=d&as_drrb=b&as_mind=12&as_minm=5&as_miny=1981&as_maxd=26&as_maxm=5&as_maxy=1993&selm=2050%40amethyst.math.arizona.edu&rnum=59&filter=0
20:37:15 <supybot> Google Groups: alt.angst, Re: Where the Krills Are
20:37:33 <sbp> whoo, I found an antedating!
20:37:43 <sal> sean im both amazed and terrified at your research capabilities.
20:37:56 <jcowan> I like to refer to Google as "my spare brain".
20:38:10 <sbp> also: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1991Jan14.211737.9705%40vaxa.strath.ac.uk
20:38:12 <supybot> Google Groups: alt.angst, Bloody Useless Technology Angst
20:38:15 <sbp> heh, indeed
20:38:26 <sbp> kandinski told me a good one about that somewhere... grepping
20:38:41 <xover> Hmmm. Does feeding something to Google and then forgetting about it count as a Harry Potteresque sieve thingy?
20:39:08 <sbp> hopefully he won't mind me quoting him:
20:39:09 <sbp> <kandinski> yes, I loved a quote on wired's Google issue:
20:39:09 <sbp> <kandinski> "Google has enhanced my perceived IQ by 20 points"
20:39:37 <Ash> lalalalala
20:40:36 <jcowan> I don't think that posts by Xibo count. After all, he's not allowed.
20:42:27 <jcowan> But in any event, both this post and Hi Ho Silver's use of it in his .sig suggest that grilf was already *well* established in 1990.
20:43:17 <sbp> yeah, true. that's a bit confusing
20:43:24 <sbp> perhaps it was spread on a BBS
20:43:32 <robertbrook> *** robertbrook (~robert@robertbrook.demon.co.uk) has joined #swhack
20:43:43 <sbp> chuckle: 'About a decade ago I said, "Trying to fix HTML is like trying to graft arms and legs onto hamburger. That is exactly what has happened: XPOINTER is the arms, XPATH is the legs.' - http://ted.hyperland.com/XMLisEvil.html
20:44:28 <robertbrook> *** robertbrook has left #swhack
20:44:32 <sal> HTML is to HAMBURGER as ...?
20:44:50 <sal> now THERES an SAT question.
20:45:19 <sbp> heh. he points to Norm Walsh's article as his own accidentally
20:46:04 <jcowan> But it doesn't really break out of alt.angst until 1992, just as the Jargon File says. It might indeed have been a BBS or mailing list term.
20:46:27 <xover> [[[
20:46:27 <xover> The chairmen, porters, and coalheavers in London, and those unfortunate
20:46:27 <xover> women who live by prostitution, the strongest men and the most beautiful
20:46:27 <xover> women perhaps in the British dominions, […] are generally fed with [potatos].
20:46:28 <xover> No food can afford a more decisive proof of its nourishing quality, or of
20:46:28 <xover> its being peculiarly suitable to the health of the human constitution.
20:46:31 <xover> ]]] -- Adam Smith, The Wealth of Nations, 1776
20:47:24 <xover> * xover can smell a .sig addition... :-)
20:47:28 <sbp> * sbp wonders if any of the original users of the terms are still around
20:48:33 <jcowan> Ted Nelson would probably like LMNL, though (http://www.lmnl.net)
20:49:13 <jcowan> *** jcowan has changed the topic to: HTML is to Hamburger as XML is to Xanadu.
20:50:58 <jcowan> Y'know, I find that when I use interfaces that cut/copy and paste text explicitly, I feel like the stuff I've cut/copied is hidden somewhere else and I have to fetch it back.
20:51:40 <jcowan> But when I use X-style interfaces (including this client, even though it's running on Windows), where select = copy and middle-click = paste, I start to imagine that what I've selected has been copied *inside the mouse*, and middle-clicking sets it free in the new context.
20:52:20 <sbp> lmnl.net: no reply
20:52:20 <xover> jcowan: You've never used a Mac I take it?
20:52:56 <evangineer> lmnl.net works for me, I just don't get the why of it.
20:53:29 <sbp> * sbp plays with "Trying to fix XML is like trying to graft arms and legs onto Xanadu" for a bit...
20:54:24 <jcowan> Very occasionally.
20:54:51 <jcowan> Overlapping markup ranges.
20:55:05 <sbp> xover: what's the clipboard/buffer mechanism on OS X like?
20:55:09 <jcowan> Also many small things from the SGML heritage fixed.
20:56:16 <jcowan> entities can't contain markup, attributes can be in start-tag or end-tag or both, attribute values can contain markup.
20:56:33 <jcowan> empty-tag syntax is natural instead of hacky.
20:57:11 <jcowan> layers are too hairy; if jenni gets time to work on it, we may simplify them into a tree.
20:57:30 <xover> sbp: Clipboard on Mac OS (X) is fairly similar to WIndows; but the UI is based around the tenet of direct manipulation...
20:57:38 <sbp> who's working on LMNL?
20:57:51 <xover> ...so you select text and __drag_it__ to where you want it.
20:57:53 <sbp> * sbp tries browsing it through Google, considers lynx over ssh
20:58:38 <jcowan> That's fine provided "where you want it" is visible. Otherwise you have to find a scroller and try to make use of it, which can be hard if you need precision.
20:59:06 <jcowan> sbp: Jenni Tennison / Gavin Nicoll / Wendell Piez / me.
20:59:12 <jcowan> All of whom are way too busy.
20:59:23 <sbp> oh, cool
20:59:37 <sbp> oh, I'll bet Jeni's had her baby by now?
20:59:59 <jcowan> Yes, she has.
21:00:18 <jcowan> Gavin's the theorist, J,W,J try to keep him focused.
21:00:21 <sbp> was it a boy or a girl?
21:01:46 <jcowan> Checking...for stupid reasons my mail archive is in two places.
21:01:51 <sbp> hmm... Gavin... the name rings a bell...
21:02:01 <sbp> heh, thanks
21:03:07 <sbp> ah, original DOM 1 editor. maybe heard of him through xml-dev too
21:03:38 <sbp> Wendell I've not heard of. reading http://www.piez.org/wendell/
21:03:41 <jcowan> Found it. A girl named Kate, born probably in February.
21:04:04 <xover> Gavin's name rang a bell here too, and I don't follow the relevant topics to any significant degree.
21:04:24 <sbp> hehe. 'Favorite award "Most likely to refer to Plato in a dinner conversation."' - Piez
21:04:46 <sbp> jcowan: ta! shame I didn't know; I would've sent congratulations. would be a bit belated now
21:05:53 <sbp> * sbp has been finding lately that it's often better to ask who's involved with a project to get a sense of its direction than to ask for an elevator pitch
21:07:28 <jcowan> Congratulations on babies are never belated (well, maybe after 24 months or so)
21:07:49 <sbp> then send I shall
21:08:46 <jcowan> A nice page on the worth of 'mancies (by Wendell Piez): http://www.piez.org/wendell/tarot.htm
21:08:46 <swhacker> posted 374
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21:17:08 <sbp> Monty: tell kandinski check out http://www.piez.org/wendell/tarot.htm (via jcowan)
21:17:08 <Monty> sbp: Okay, I'll tell kandinski that next time I see them...
21:17:35 <sbp> welcome back, redmonk
21:21:58 <jcowan> ObRandomFact: the Greek word "kannabis" (borrowed into Latin and English as "cannabis; English "hemp" is a cognate) is too long to be an Indo-European root, and must be borrowed from some other language family now lost.
21:22:04 <Ash> L;KSHDFA;LIV
21:22:36 <sbp> hardly random given the Basque chat the other day
21:22:40 <sbp> * sbp waves to Ash
21:23:18 <sbp> shame that we've no possible way of reconstructing pre-IE families
21:23:33 <sbp> well, not pre particularly
21:23:46 <jcowan> * jcowan scratches head.
21:23:57 <redmonk> i need some tech support help
21:24:13 <H0gan> *** H0gan has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
21:24:19 <jcowan> sbp: what does "not pre particularly" mean?
21:24:20 <redmonk> i've got a user who's Mac, using Apple Mail, is downloading emails several times
21:24:30 <sbp> jcowan: "L;KSHDFA;LIV" has no English cognate if that's what you're wonder... oh
21:24:54 <redmonk> it's happened to others, and in entourage as well, so i'm not convinced it's just her
21:25:03 <redmonk> any ideas what might be causing it?
21:25:40 <sbp> in that Basque, as far as I could tell from that FAQ you pointed us to the other day, can't be considered to antedate IE or even PIE, just that it was used in Europe before any IE sub branch. so in that sense, sure it's pre, but in the actual date of its inception, it's impossible to tell
21:26:06 <redmonk> * redmonk seems to have stumbled into the basque twilight zone
21:26:27 <sbp> redmonk: you need Morbus or xover
21:26:30 <jcowan> Several times in a single pop3 run, or in multiple runs?
21:26:39 <jcowan> sbp: fair enough.
21:26:41 <redmonk> multiple runs
21:26:49 <sbp> (or deltab or jcowan, but that goes without saying...)
21:26:50 <Morbus> redmonk: by default, apple mail does not remove stuff from the server.
21:27:05 <redmonk> each time she d/ls mail, it some set of messages it had already downloaded
21:27:09 <Morbus> it sounds like the Mail.app store that says "i've downloaded this", is broken.
21:27:09 <sbp> back in a bit, got to mess about with cable
21:27:15 <Morbus> either that, or the server is killing the connection halfway through.
21:27:19 <redmonk> hm.
21:27:21 <Morbus> in which case, mail.app doesn't update the store of what's been read.
21:27:26 <redmonk> right
21:27:33 <Morbus> rather, what's been downloaded.
21:27:35 <redmonk> any idea where that store is?
21:27:36 <Morbus> (not read. different things)
21:27:38 <Morbus> not a clue :)
21:27:59 <redmonk> hrm.
21:28:11 <Morbus> one thing to try would be to delete her pop account and then re-add.
21:28:20 <redmonk> oy.
21:28:21 <Morbus> that works on OE, at least.
21:28:27 <Morbus> well, not her pop account on the server.
21:28:29 <redmonk> oh, you mean in Mail
21:28:31 <Morbus> her account settings within mail
21:28:35 <redmonk> * redmonk wipes brow
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21:29:17 <Morbus> heh, heh.
21:29:39 <Morbus> does she have an AV on her system?
21:29:46 <Morbus> all modern AV's intercept mail traffic and fuck with it.
21:29:53 <Morbus> it causes hella problems on win32 with OE.
21:29:57 <Morbus> that's my numbah one call.
21:30:15 <redmonk> she's on OS X
21:30:22 <redmonk> ergo, no AV. ;)
21:30:22 <Morbus> yeah, i know.
21:30:26 <Morbus> well, i dunno.
21:30:31 <Morbus> some os x users think they need av ;)
21:30:35 <redmonk> fair nuf, but no, no AV
21:30:38 <Morbus> and norton aint gonna tell em no :)
21:30:51 <redmonk> hehe
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21:35:01 <jcowan> *** jcowan is now known as cowan-afk
21:40:17 <redmonk> Microsoft support website is useless
21:40:32 <kandinski> hi all
21:40:33 <Monty> Hey kandinski, sbp asked me to tell you: check out http://www.piez.org/wendell/tarot.htm (via jcowan) [Wed May 26 22:17:08 BST 2004]
21:40:35 <redmonk> I did a search in the Entourage section on "database" and found no reulsts
21:40:45 <kandinski> already saw it: was reading backroll
21:41:00 <kandinski> no, sbp, I don't mind you quoting my quoting the Wired Google special
21:41:01 <xover> redmonk: Try http://www.entourage.mvps.org/
21:46:57 <redmonk> xover: thanks.
21:47:05 <redmonk> * redmonk found at least one useful page
21:47:11 <redmonk> http://www.entourage.mvps.org/database_mail/corrupt.html
21:47:27 <redmonk> with instructions for recovering from the "messages" file with bbedit
21:55:37 <sbp> kandinski: thanks. I'd applied equity hopefully!
21:55:54 <kandinski> equity?
21:56:27 <UnknownQ> i did my first (part) day at my first internship today
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21:59:51 <redmonk> UnknownQ: congrats!
22:01:08 <UnknownQ> redmonk, my resume is gonna look pretty good by the time i wanna start a career :-)
22:01:19 <redmonk> heh
22:01:21 <redmonk> nice
22:01:26 <redmonk> internship in what?
22:01:55 <UnknownQ> i'm doing databasing stuff for a company that makes robots (videoray.com)
22:02:00 <UnknownQ> how awesome is that!?
22:02:05 <redmonk> very nice
22:02:48 <sbp> kandinski: cf. equity in the R&A's rules
22:03:03 <UnknownQ> all i'm saying is it's nice to not be working a register :-)
22:03:08 <kandinski> I must be very slow today
22:03:19 <kandinski> what is the R&A?
22:03:25 <UnknownQ> i did a brief (2 week) stint as a farm hand... pruning and what not
22:03:27 <kandinski> Retirement and Alienation?
22:03:34 <kandinski> Roses and Alcohol?
22:03:43 <UnknownQ> guns and roses!?!?!?
22:03:45 <sbp> [[[
22:03:45 <sbp> 1-4. Points Not Covered by Rules
22:03:46 <sbp> If any point in dispute is not covered by the Rules, the decision should be made in accordance with equity.
22:03:46 <UnknownQ> aww...
22:03:46 <sbp> ]]]
22:03:54 <sbp> - http://www.usga.org/playing/rules/books/rules/rule01.html#1-4
22:04:11 <sbp> Royal and Ancient
22:04:45 <UnknownQ> * UnknownQ goes downstairs for grub
22:05:03 <kandinski> equity == "do unto others as you would like to be done unto you" ???
22:05:49 <tav> *** tav has quit (Success)
22:05:50 <sbp> more like "if your ball lands near a dangerous animal, you do not have to play the shot: you can take a free drop, in a position that will pose you no obvious advantage or disadvantage"
22:06:00 <sbp> but yeah
22:06:23 <kandinski> is it Royal and Ancient Golf?
22:06:24 <tav> *** tav (~tav@espians.com) has joined #swhack
22:06:51 <sbp> "The Royal and Ancient Golf Club of St Andrews", officially
22:07:32 <kandinski> free drop equals tossing the ball over your shoulder?
22:08:30 <sbp> holding it out at arms length to the side, arm perpendicular to the ground, and releasing without spin or other controll of the ball. should the ball come to rest over two club lengths away from the initial drop position, the ball shall be redropped
22:08:36 <sbp> s/arms/arm's/
22:08:44 <sbp> s/controll/control/
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22:13:13 <Morbus> NP: 'Choralone' from Skinny Puppy's album 'Rabies'; Unrated; http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000006CIM/disobeycom/
22:13:52 <redmonk> * redmonk isn't running iTunes currently.
22:13:56 <redmonk> grr.
22:14:27 <Morbus> you use iScrobbler?
22:14:39 <Morbus> http://www.audioscrobbler.com/user/morbus
22:15:09 <redmonk> * redmonk is listening to 05Crazy (Warsaw 10.07.2003) by 03R.E.M. from 10Torwar Arena Warsaw 10.07.2003.
22:15:47 <Morbus> the fuck?
22:15:55 <Morbus> turn down the colors you made up whore
22:15:58 <Morbus> :)
22:16:08 <redmonk> not my colors
22:16:14 <redmonk> Colloquy itunes plugin
22:16:16 <Morbus> what thingy is that?
22:16:18 <Morbus> aaah.
22:16:28 <redmonk> /itunes
22:16:29 <Morbus> i use an applescript that puts the NP in my clipboard.
22:16:37 <Morbus> so, i can paste it in any input just by hitting f4.
22:16:40 <Morbus> NP: 'Amputate' from Skinny Puppy's album 'Rabies'; Unrated; http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000006CIM/disobeycom/
22:16:41 <redmonk> C plugin is applescript as well
22:16:53 <Morbus> yeah, but you can only use it colloquy.
22:16:57 <Morbus> mine's better, face it <g>
22:17:02 <redmonk> that's the only plaec i really care
22:17:06 <redmonk> * redmonk faces it
22:17:08 <Morbus> loser! <G>
22:19:06 <redmonk> * redmonk is listening to 05Cuyahoga by 03R.E.M. from 10Lifes Rich Pageant.
22:21:02 <xover> Morbus: You're one to talk... (/me still can't read TheMorb's cut&pastes)...
22:21:17 <Morbus> when did I cut and paste?
22:21:22 <Morbus> oh, well, that's at my client at work.
22:21:29 <Morbus> does this color for you?
22:21:29 <Morbus> [[[
22:21:30 <Morbus> [18:19] * redmonk is listening to Cuyahoga by R.E.M. from Lifes Rich Pageant.
22:21:30 <Morbus> [18:21] <xover> Morbus: You're one to talk... (/me still can't read TheMorb's cut&pastes)...
22:21:30 <Morbus> [18:21] <Morbus> when did I cut and paste?
22:21:30 <Morbus> [18:21] <Morbus> oh, well, that's at my client at work.
22:21:32 <Morbus> ]]]
22:21:49 <Morbus> TheMorb?
22:21:53 <Morbus> are you TheMorb on slsk?
22:21:57 <Morbus> that guy keeps downloading from me of late.
22:22:13 <xover> No, actually, that's rather nice plain text... Congrats! :-)
22:22:37 <Morbus> yeah, my client at works suck.
22:22:39 <xover> TheMorb was a spur of the moment thing.
22:22:42 <Morbus> i chose it because its easily hidden.
22:22:46 <Morbus> not because it is good.
22:24:29 <Morbus> hrm.
22:24:32 <Morbus> my gf is coming home early today.
22:24:47 <Morbus> i can work for the duration (where i'd normally split it in two), or I can play for the duration.
22:24:51 <Morbus> i'm leaning toward playing.
22:25:38 <xover> Webcam?
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22:32:14 <d8uv> Afternoon #swhack!
22:33:38 <sbp> hey there d8uv
22:42:04 <redmonk> yo d8uv
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23:19:33 <kandinski_> .swhack NLP
23:19:33 <phenny> nlp: 2002-02-15 16:51:43 <neb> MEGAHAL HAL bot chatterbot NLP langage processing turing test eliza Loebner prize test Geek language Speech chat -- http://swhack.com/logs/2002-02-15#T16-51-43
23:20:39 <kandinski_> hey, bye
23:20:43 <kandinski_> enjoy
23:20:58 <sbp> 'night kandinski_!
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