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04:41:26 <cowan> Swhack!
04:42:56 <sbp> hey there jcowan
04:43:07 <cowan> Ha, sbp. A bit early?
04:43:10 <sbp> nothing all that interesting going on this summer solsticey evening
04:43:33 <cowan> Just a bit past midnight here.
04:43:38 <sbp> more like late--will be going to bed soon
04:43:41 <cowan> I have just come back from a folk festival
04:43:54 <sbp> folk festival? as in folk music, or folk culture?
04:44:17 <cowan> Folk music, but with a very broad interpretation of "folk".
04:44:51 <sbp> I don't count it as folk unless there's at least one person playing with a DADGAD tuning
04:45:03 <cowan> Picky, picky, picky.
04:45:22 <sbp> minireview for us?
04:46:45 <cowan> The Great Hudson River Revival (I've just been revived): http://www.clearwaterfestival.org/artists/index.htm
04:46:46 <swhacker> posted 435
04:47:11 <sbp> Scoble Letting Slip About IE (there's still a team): http://radio.weblogs.com/0001011/2004/06/16.html#a7776
04:47:11 <swhacker> posted 436
04:47:22 <cowan> 435:Cleaning up the Hudson River, one bit at a time, for 38 years.
04:47:48 <sbp> 436:Also: <a href="http://blogs.msdn.com/dmassy/archive/2004/06/16/157263.aspx">Return of the xxxx?</a>
04:48:10 <sbp> Gandalf Murphy & Slambovian Circus of Dreams?
04:48:31 <sbp> were the storytellers any good?
04:48:59 <cowan> The ghost stories on Saturday night were excellent. I didn't catch much of them this year, though.
04:50:22 <sbp> 435::The Festival, including all stages, is 100% powered by solar energy, soy-diesel generators and wind-powered energy credits.
04:50:27 <sbp> pretty good website
04:50:30 <cowan> 435: The best thing about this festival is not the performers, activists, craftspeople, buskers, or trash-pickers (a group including Pete Seeger). It's the feeling of being, for a short while, in an absolutely harmonious community.
04:51:16 <cowan> Unfortunately I misses GMSCD -- my wife is still recovering from chemotherapy, and she moves around slowly, so we spent much time going from A to B.
04:52:20 <cowan> s/misses/missed
04:52:30 <sbp> oh, sorry to hear that
04:52:48 <cowan> Also, we realized that we had to buy a chair so she could rest, and that consumed several hours of Saturday.
04:53:18 <sbp> as in a wheelchair?
04:53:37 <cowan> No, just a lightweight folding chair.
04:53:45 <cowan> Traffic is very hairy around there during festival weekend.
04:53:58 <sbp> ah. why did that take s... ah
04:54:31 <sbp> shame Amazon don't do chairs
04:55:10 <cowan> Also we had to search about three stores before finding something suitable (i.e. strong enough and light enough both).
04:56:04 <cowan> Why shouldn't there be an IE team? After all, Longhorn will feature the new IE, which somebody has to develop.
04:56:33 <sbp> didn't make much sense to me either, but it appears to be Important News to some folk
04:57:28 <sbp> in keeping with the festivitarian atmosphere, can you help me with a question I had earlier? I'm wondering when midsummer's night is
04:57:41 <sbp> the solstice is tonight, so that would indicate the night of the 20th
04:57:57 <sbp> but the longest day--midsummer day--is today, so that would make it the night of the 21st
04:58:05 <sbp> but classically, it's held on the night of the 23rd
04:58:14 <sbp> hence confuzzlement
05:04:57 <cowan> I have no clue. It may be a question of the inaccuracy of the Gregorian calendar.
05:05:24 <sbp> ah, hadn't thought of that
05:06:54 <cowan> The calendar is a little off true, and then there's the question of the mean sun vs. the actual sun: the mean sun (appears to) travel at a constant rate, the actual sun does not.
05:10:25 <sbp> * sbp finds http://www.astronomynotes.com/nakedeye/s9.htm from Googling "mean sun" "actual sun"
05:11:55 <cowan> Yes, up to 18 minute discrepancy.
05:13:08 <cowan> Equinoxes and Solstices (when they happen, 1992-2005): http://www.erh.noaa.gov/er/box/equinox.html
05:13:09 <swhacker> posted 437
05:13:26 <cowan> 437:EST = UTC - 5, EDT = UTC - 4.
05:14:20 <sbp> varies rather a lot
05:14:56 <sbp> the 23rd was chosen as a fixed date because of that drift, IIRC. but why it was chosen when the summer solstice is either on the 20th or 21st is rather odd
05:15:03 <cowan> Yes. The Earth is a crappy clock, although its period of revolution is more accurate than its period of rotation.
05:18:00 <cowan> The original intention was to have the solstices/equinoxes on the 25th; when the Julian calendar was changed to the Gregorian in order to fix the drift, it was only "fixed" retroactively to about the 3rd century, whereas Julius Caesar established the Julian calendar in the -1st century.
05:19:05 <sbp> and they didn't realise that at the time?
05:19:17 <sbp> (and why the 25th?)
05:21:03 <cowan> I don't think they cared about dating issues before the establishment of the A.D. calendar in the 3rd century. Everything before that is retroactive and semi-irrelevant.
05:21:13 <cowan> Why the 25th? Who knows.
05:34:32 <cowan> Checking with a converter shows that Julian and Gregorian track one another from 1 March 200 to 28 February 300.
05:36:00 <sbp> hmm
05:44:43 <cowan> Oops. Dennis the Little didn't establish the A.D. calendar until 527. So I don't know what's magic about the 3rd century.
06:02:58 <cowan> #1 weird spam subject line of today: "Chess board gonads of 95."
06:03:20 <sbp> I wonder if they mean 95 A.D.? that'd be even weirder
06:03:43 <cowan> Yes. I suppose you could call Bobby Fischer a "chessboard gonad".
06:04:28 <sbp> he's an interesting chap, certainly
06:06:09 <sbp> * sbp gathers tracks together for an album... has more than he thought
06:07:19 <cowan> Ooops, just turned into a pumpkin. !kcawS
06:07:29 <cowan> er, !kcahwS
06:07:52 <sbp> 'night jcowan!
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07:46:18 <d8uv> That's it, I'm going to the Motherland.
07:46:33 <d8uv> That's right, Caucasia.
07:55:48 <sbp> hmm>
07:55:52 <sbp> s/>/?/
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08:28:24 <pir> cowan knows everything.
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08:48:31 <Monty> it's kandinski!
08:48:48 <kandinski> it is braindead bot chat time!
08:48:48 <phenny> kandinski: sbp told me to tell you: <Suw> if you see him, can you tell him that I can't wait to find out what it is that I am going to be very interested in but which he hasn't told me yet (at 2004-06-20 18:57:51.368110)
08:48:50 <kandinski> not!
08:49:00 <kandinski> ah, sbp...
08:50:40 <kandinski> thanks for the message
08:53:35 <d8uv> EVERYBODY IS ASLEEP AND IT'S MAKING ME ANGERED
08:54:25 <d8uv> * d8uv destroys tokyo
08:57:55 <kandinski> <kandinski> Suw, I have taken a plane to see you and am now outside your door, ready for some Creative Commons lovin' as in share and share alike...
08:58:00 <kandinski> oops, wroing window
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09:11:09 <Monty> bah, it's bjoern_ again
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11:34:34 <Monty> howdy, Sunir
11:34:45 <Talliesin> 'lo
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11:39:10 <Monty> howdy, Sunir_
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13:02:53 <Monty> hi wh4, how ya doing?
13:02:54 <Monty> welcome, tav|offline
13:02:56 <Monty> welcome, xover
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13:21:02 <cowan> Swhack!
13:23:06 <cowan> !kcahws
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13:24:53 <laplink> Visit to Fløya Mountain (Pictures!): http://homepage.mac.com/xover/Floya/
13:24:54 <swhacker> posted 438
13:28:08 <kandinski> hey jillyzilly
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13:28:17 <Monty> bah, it's eikeon again
13:28:19 <kandinski> I am going to copy you on something I am writing
13:28:28 <kandinski> in case you want to make any comments
13:28:37 <kandinski> it is my Stallman piece for Rolling Stone Spain
13:28:52 <kandinski> hi cowan, swhack! yourself
13:29:05 <kandinski> (copying the 'zilla because she speaks spanish, that is why)
13:29:16 <kandinski> (and because I trust her judgement)
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14:34:46 <Monty> howdy, themaximus
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16:52:49 <redmonk> swhack!!
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17:10:11 <Monty> Speak of the devil, it's libby!
17:10:26 <sal> i prefer motts.
17:28:43 <pir_zzzs> *** pir_zzzs is now known as pir
17:38:03 <sbp> * sbp catches up on the jibber.no trip photos
17:38:03 <phenny> sbp: niq told me to tell you: is phenny opensource? (at 2004-06-21 10:44:59.375643)
17:38:05 <phenny> sbp: bjoern_ told me to tell you: to implement JibberJim's question syntax (at 2004-06-21 10:46:41.692300)
17:38:34 <sbp> heh. it really is like getting your mail in the morning
17:38:54 <sal> now all she needs is a sultry voice to read us the items with.
17:41:30 <sbp> she already has. can't you hear that scintillatingly smouldering tone on the "tell you"?
17:41:52 <sbp> (if not, you may need better t2s)
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17:53:01 <sal> i dont; the medication suppresses it i guess.
17:57:28 <sbp> heh, heh: (on Gmail) 'The message, which was about a college reunion, contained the line "Great seeing you and your wife." The ad that came with it was from Avon: "Get Rid of Cellulite. Reveal a Slimmer & Smoother You."' - http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/21/technology/21google.html?ex=1088821071&ei=1&en=9b2b1b2f1ef54d63
17:59:31 <sbp> ah, Talliesin!
17:59:40 <sbp> you can help me with the Big Midsummer Night debate
18:00:01 <Talliesin> Generally the night would be the night before the solstice.
18:00:06 <Talliesin> Midsummer's Eve.
18:00:11 <Talliesin> Hence it was last night.
18:00:14 <sbp> so the 20th, this year? hmm
18:00:52 <Talliesin> However expect there to be both secular and religious celebrations tonight as well, also on St. Johns' Eve and possibly a few other days around the general solstice period.
18:01:22 <sbp> St. John's Eve? when's that?
18:01:28 <sbp> .g "St. John's Eve"
18:01:28 <phenny> "St. John's Eve": http://artists3.iuma.com/IUMA/Bands/st.johns_eve/
18:01:52 <sbp> better page: http://www.canadafirst.net/our_heritage/solstice/
18:04:10 <sbp> which explains it. many thanks
18:05:20 <sbp> "After the collapse of Soviet occupation, Estonia decriminalized bonfires and restored June 23rd as a national holiday."
18:05:25 <sbp> decriminalized bonfires?
18:06:17 <sbp> http://www.canadafirst.net/our_heritage/solstice/sol-wheel.jpg
18:06:25 <sbp> why isn't there a word for Mid-Summer in there?
18:08:01 <Talliesin> Lithra would be the most common to complete that set.
18:08:37 <Talliesin> .googlefight imbolc imbloc
18:09:19 <Talliesin> Eh
18:09:30 <Talliesin> Anyway, Imbloc is a misspelling there.
18:09:40 <Talliesin> Imbolc or Imbolg would be correct.
18:10:09 <Talliesin> Or Candlemas for that matter.
18:10:22 <Morbus> *** Morbus (~morbus@morbus.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack
18:10:22 <Monty> hi Morbus, how ya doing?
18:10:27 <redmonk> yo BUS
18:10:37 <redmonk> * redmonk made level 36 over the weekend
18:11:01 <redmonk> and still I lose almost every post-leveling challenge
18:11:06 <sbp> Talliesin: thanks!
18:11:32 <sal> * sal knows how to use a level. but thats about it.
18:12:10 <sbp> "Lithra" doesn't come up much on Google
18:12:18 <Morbus> sal, check your email
18:12:21 <sbp> @google fight imbolc imbloc
18:12:24 <supybot> 'imbolc': 33000, 'imbloc': 117
18:14:19 <sbp> ah, Litha
18:15:09 <Talliesin> oops
18:15:15 <Talliesin> typo
18:18:13 <Talliesin> One amusing thing is that internationally Pagans, particularly Wiccans, tend to use Irish names for the four sabbats that were Celtic holy days; Samhain, Imbolc/Imbolg, Beltane/Bealtaine and Lughnasadh.
18:19:12 <jsled> amusing how?
18:19:14 <Talliesin> This originated from two writers who suggested that everyone should use names from their own locality, rather than the English names that were more common in Wiccan use until then. Since they happened to be living in Ireland at the time they used the Irish names.
18:19:47 <Talliesin> The Irish names then caught on around the world, despite being used as an example of how we shouldn't use the same names around the world.
18:19:53 <jsled> heh
18:20:06 <jsled> HA HA AMUSEMENT!
18:20:18 <Talliesin> Okay, don't over do it jsled.
18:21:16 <Talliesin> All those US Wiccans that have been saying "Sam Hane" and "Lugg Nas add" and wondering why the Irish were laughing at them needn't have bothered.
18:23:06 <jsled> hmm. how is 'samhain' pronounced, then?
18:23:51 <Talliesin> sow-in is a reasonable approximation.
18:24:07 <sbp> hmm. another date! "The alternative fixed calendar date of June 25 (Old Litha) is sometimes employed by Covens." - http://www.wicca.com/celtic/akasha/litha.htm
18:24:16 <Talliesin> Hmm.
18:24:41 <Talliesin> more Saw-in really.
18:24:43 <sbp> sounds a bit like how they have Old Christmas Day on the Isle of Man
18:25:17 <sbp> which is on January 5th. "In the Isle of Man, there were new and old Christmas Days until an introduction to the island's lex scripta on the eigth of January 1753 forced the adoption of 25th December in line with the rest of Christendom."
18:25:43 <sbp> - http://inamidst.com/notes/miscellanea
18:26:50 <sbp> Talliesin: how about "Lughnasadh"?
18:27:11 <Talliesin> Loo nas ah
18:27:13 <sbp> * sbp ought to read http://www.standingstones.com/gaelpron.html a few times until it sinks in
18:27:24 <sbp> ta
18:27:38 <jsled> I so read that as gael. pr0n....
18:27:42 <sbp> yeah...
18:27:53 <Talliesin> And the god Lugh, who's feast it is, is pronounced "loo"
18:27:58 <sbp> overl33t
18:28:52 <sbp> ooh: "In the old Irish script this was shown by putting a little dot above the letter. Nowadays Irish is printed using the standard Western alphabet, and the little dot has been replaced by the letter "h" following the consonant."
18:29:49 <sbp> see, according to that guide, I'd've thought "Lugh" would be "Luch" assonant with look, rhyming with loch
18:29:56 <Talliesin> Yes, the H's make a lot more sense in that case.
18:31:01 <Talliesin> I've heard it pronouced that way. But generally it's pronouced slender.
18:31:54 <Talliesin> I only know the bit of Irish that works its way into Hiberno-English and Irish Paganism.
18:35:36 <sbp> * sbp nods
18:35:49 <sbp> could be local exceptions etc. too
18:38:26 <Talliesin> Yes, also there are three quite different dialects.
18:39:06 <Talliesin> I've been told that if I had managed to learn Irish when in school hardly anyone here would understand me anyway, they'd all think I was talking Scottish Gaelic.
18:45:04 <redmonk> Talliesin: where is "here"?
18:47:54 <MoiraA|b3d> *** MoiraA|b3d is now known as MoiraA
18:48:24 <MoiraA> hello everyone
18:50:51 <Talliesin> "Here" is Dublin, but I grew up and failed to learn Irish in Ulster.
19:00:28 <redmonk> ah
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20:25:03 <jcowan> Swhack!
20:26:11 <jcowan> Any Hebrew-speaking types about?
20:26:38 <redmonk> La Chaim!
20:26:44 <redmonk> * redmonk clinks
20:26:48 <redmonk> that's all i know
20:27:09 <redmonk> jcowan: how cvs-savvy are you?
20:28:27 <jcowan> Not a wizard (or mavin), but not zero either. I'm good at finding things and figuring out things, though.
20:28:31 <jcowan> What's the trouble?
20:29:01 <redmonk> 13:23:30: cvs server: failed to create lock directory in repository `/cvs/myrepo/style': No such file or directory
20:29:05 <redmonk> 13:23:30: cvs server: failed to obtain dir lock in repository `/cvs/myrepo/style'
20:29:08 <redmonk> 13:23:30: cvs [server aborted]: read lock failed - giving up
20:29:22 <jcowan> What were you trying to do?
20:29:44 <redmonk> trying to 'add' a directory with one file in it
20:40:29 <jcowan> It's almost certainly a Unix-level protection violation. The effective uid under which cvs is running doesn't have write access to the style directory. Check ownership.
20:40:56 <redmonk> that's weird though. i'm adding it within cvs
20:42:18 <redmonk> hm. got it. not sure how
20:42:20 <redmonk> thx
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21:31:41 <jcowan> [[[
21:31:44 <jcowan> There's no ASCII but US-ASCII (the only ASCII I know);
21:31:44 <jcowan> Everything about it is U.S.-based; everything about it's 7-bit.
21:31:44 <jcowan> You do that X3.4 wheeler-dealing, when you are feeling retro-fit.
21:31:44 <jcowan> There's no ASCII but US-ASCII, it's Unicode's first half-row;
21:31:45 <jcowan> Though it is a turkey that we know must die,
21:31:47 <jcowan> While systems still chop off bits that are high,
21:31:49 <jcowan> It is the only charset that will always fly,
21:31:55 <jcowan> ASCII, on with the show!
21:31:57 <jcowan> ASCII, on with the show!
21:31:59 <jcowan> ]]]
21:32:01 <jcowan> --me
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22:09:36 <jcowan> The magic of VMWare:
22:09:49 <Morbus> *** Morbus (~morbus@pool-64-223-154-230.man.east.verizon.net) has joined #swhack
22:10:43 <jcowan> I'm continuing to do Internet stuff while installing FC2 in a VM. I could still be running FC1 in another VM, except I'm a little short on real memory, but I have plenty of physical disk, so the FC2 install is going on a different virtual disk from the FC1 install; I'll then mount the FC1 disk, fetch anything I need there, and then delete it.
22:10:59 <jcowan> (The host system is XP)
22:24:51 <jcowan> Why do installation scripts lie about the time left to go? In 30 years, I have never seen one that wasn't an outrageous optimist.
22:25:53 <JibberJim> * JibberJim has, once saw one saying it would take another hour, and it just ended.
22:25:58 <JibberJim> of course it ended with a failure!
22:27:33 <jcowan> Umm, I don't think that counts.
22:27:47 <jcowan> "I can make it run as fast as you want, if it doesn't have to work."
22:28:25 <jcowan> Anyhow, FC2 said 30 minutes to go for the last 25 minutes, and just changed to 25 minutes to go. I'll let it run overnight, I guess.
22:29:43 <jcowan> Farewell! Thou art too dear for my possessing....
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23:17:53 <jillzilla> mmmmm, Shakespearean sonnets...
23:18:58 <sbp> "Thus have I had thee as a dream doth flatter-- || In sleep, a king; but waking, no such matter"
23:19:18 <sbp> Lazioesque victory handwaving
23:20:51 <laplink> * laplink feels echoes of the Victorian Sex Cry Generator...
23:21:11 <jillzilla> "Love's not Time's fool, though rosy lips and cheeks/beneath his something sickle's compass come"
23:21:34 <jillzilla> it's amazing how often one can substitute "something" for a word you've forgottn.
23:21:43 <jillzilla> I think "buggered" would work well too.
23:22:07 <laplink> A buggared sickle's compass?
23:22:35 <jillzilla> yes, precisely
23:22:59 <jillzilla> "beneath his swiving sickle's compass come"
23:23:12 <JibberJim> if you've ever been buggered by a sickle, you're not around to talk about it, believe me!
23:23:40 <jillzilla> "buggered" was so three minutes ago
23:23:48 <laplink> * laplink is beginning to seriously worry about having Jim in the house...
23:24:52 <JibberJim> * JibberJim hopes he didn't see the sickle I had packed in my rucksack
23:25:29 <deltab> "Is that a sickle in your rucksack, or are you" etc.
23:27:31 <MoiraA> *** MoiraA is now known as MoiraA|b3d
23:27:36 <laplink> @topic add [last --from deltab]
23:27:37 <supybot> *** supybot has changed the topic to: Swhack: where (enigmatic || ambiguity) meets seven other different (kinds of enigmatic || types of ambiguity) || <deltab> "Is that a sickle in your rucksack, or are you" etc. (laplink)
23:27:48 <MoiraA|b3d> nn
23:41:13 <JibberJim> when you create them sbp!
23:41:28 <JibberJim> * JibberJim was quite warm in just t-shirt and jacket
23:41:48 <sbp> deceiving, then. lots of the white stuff around
23:42:15 <laplink> Yeah
23:42:52 <sbp> looks like you're all enjoying yourselves
23:45:04 <sbp> .ety cistern
23:45:05 <phenny> cistern: Middle English, from Old French cisterne, from Latin cisterna, from cista box, chest -- more at CHEST
23:48:58 <Talliesin> .ety etymology
23:48:59 <phenny> etymology: Middle English ethimologie, from Latin etymologia, from Greek, from etymon + -logia -logy
23:52:57 <laplink> Well, Jen seemed to. She took off in the direction of the peak while the rest of us went for coffe. :-)
23:53:19 <laplink> So when're you coming to visit Sean?
23:54:15 <laplink> You can come do the Marathon in January... :-)
23:54:26 <JibberJim> .ety grockle
23:54:26 <phenny> grockle: no etymology found
23:55:36 <Talliesin> .ety chortle
23:55:37 <phenny> chortle: probably blend of chuckle and snort
23:55:52 <Talliesin> * Talliesin spanks phenny
23:55:54 <sbp> laplink: I wanted to come this time, but was no possible. bleh
23:56:08 <Talliesin> It's from jabberwocky. It's a nonesense word.
23:56:11 <sbp> maybe next year, certainly
23:56:22 <laplink> Well, there's still lots of summer left....
23:56:34 <sbp> I think LC said it was probably a portmanteau of chuckle and snort
23:56:44 <laplink> (in fact, since as you can see the snow's not all gone yet, the summer up here is just starting)
23:57:34 <laplink> And hey, Jim's been saying several times a day that "Tromsø is just a reg'lar paradise, isn't it!". :-)
23:58:10 <JibberJim> It is, gorgeous weather, great mountains, lovely people, and beer...
23:58:19 <JibberJim> the beer is somewhat on the pricey side though
23:58:33 <laplink> But brewed locally, and very good! Right Jim?
23:58:56 <JibberJim> oh yeah, it's lovely, ran past the brewery and everything, some old guy pointed it out even, famous throughout .no it is.
23:59:29 <sbp> * sbp imagines Jim having to hurdle people bowing to the ground at the brewery
