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00:36:04 <d8uv> Hello
00:42:56 <sbp> d8uv in da haus
00:45:14 <d8uv> I've been banned from 3 places in the past week. I rule
00:46:31 <sbp> sweet
00:46:40 <sbp> from where have you been banned?
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00:48:57 <sbp> [01:47] <Shaheen> it's funny that being away from ana would have a negative effect on me ;)
00:48:57 <sbp> [01:48] <sbp> hehe, yeah
00:48:57 <sbp> [01:48] <sbp> also I have no idea who or what you're talking about
00:53:24 <sbp> continuing the Morbous trend:
00:53:25 <sbp> [01:51] <sbp> well you can either lurk and wait for a real admin to come around, or you can leave your email address/account name/some contact method and someone might see it in the scrollback and get back to you (if you want feedback)
00:53:25 <sbp> [01:52] <sbp> or you can play ASCII backgammon here in the channel against an imaginary opponent. that'd be awesome
01:00:41 <sbp> secrets of ancient scripts revealed!
01:00:53 <sbp> "The Meroïtic script was used to write Meroïtic" - http://www.omniglot.com/writing/undeciphered.htm
02:02:44 <d8uv> sbp: to almost answer your question, I'm getting banned as "david"
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08:29:32 <kandinski_> uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
08:29:36 <kandinski_> mornin'
08:42:42 <sbp> hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhi
08:43:04 <sbp> yes, it is just me here as usual
08:43:17 <sbp> but it is a Sunday, after all. people should be off slouching and lazing and such
08:43:55 <sbp> I'm enhungered; off to get food
08:44:04 <kandinski_> foodify yourself, yes
08:44:22 <kandinski_> I am not slouching because I am teaching a class about internet radio tomorrow
08:44:38 <kandinski_> I am busy setting up shoutcast/icecast and learning how to source it
08:47:44 <xover> G'mornin' sbp. <http://www.comics.com/comics/drabble/archive/images/drabble2004071149418.jpg>
08:51:18 <sbp> why hello there. that cartoon I am now most loading
08:51:42 <sbp> the duck is most excellent
08:52:32 <kandinski_> go go duck!
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09:10:58 <kandinski_> <sbp> I'm enhungered; off to get food
09:11:02 <kandinski_> <sbp> the duck is most excellent
09:11:05 <kandinski_> heh
09:11:29 <sbp> ehy!
09:11:45 <sbp> you're missing an ellipsis
09:11:58 <sbp> I call bad quote style on you! :-)
09:12:13 <sbp> oh wait. you're a journalist. that's alright then
09:12:17 <sbp> * sbp "ducks"
09:13:04 <xover> The best argument so far against Valid Foo badges?
09:13:09 <xover> They make Technocrati useless... <http://www.technorati.com/cosmos/search.html?url=http://validator.w3.org/>
09:13:31 <bjoern_> poor service then
09:13:44 <sbp> yeah
09:16:35 <sbp> Technorati maintainer on line one...
09:16:55 <sbp> he asks why that makes it useless. I replied <sbp> I think, though this is partly conjecture, that it's because it's showing citations of /check/referer, not / as was requested
09:18:49 <sbp> appears to be a possibility that it's on its way to being fixed
09:18:58 <sbp> how's that for service?
09:18:59 <xover> :-)
09:19:49 <bjoern_> how many days does it take to get results for http://www.technorati.com/cosmos/search.html?url=http://www.w3.org ? I really love the animation, but...
09:20:23 <sbp> they're expensive queries
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09:20:49 <sbp> hey CRowen. welcome to fuck you then
09:20:58 <xover> heh heh
09:21:41 <xover> BTW, am I supposed to know who the "Technorati maintainer" is?
09:22:17 <bjoern_> you are essentially supposed to know answers to all questions.
09:22:24 <kandinski_> <kandinski_> I am not a journalist, I just play one on TV
09:22:26 <sbp> yeah, wtf xover?
09:22:38 <xover> * xover grumbles...
09:22:48 <xover> It's like I'm back at work again... :-(
09:23:00 <sbp> ON YOUR KNEES MAGGOT
09:23:02 <bjoern_> we are, after all, only here to listen to your words of wisdom.
09:23:17 <kandinski_> CRowen just joined and left #barrapunto as well
09:23:25 <sbp> I just said "anyone know who maintains Technorati?" in a semi-random channel, and Kevin Marks piped up. it was quite funny. like, "oh hey, that's convenient"
09:23:44 <JibberJim> * JibberJim knew that
09:24:29 <sbp> yeah, I thought it was well known
09:24:35 <xover> Hmmm. There are benefits to spamming, it seems, when done properly...
09:24:49 <kandinski_> well, I was there, and I thought you were joking
09:25:08 <kandinski_> even *I* know he would be there
09:25:15 <xover> "well known" is relative; I Don't Do Blogosphere[tm]...
09:26:34 <sbp> heh, heh
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09:26:52 <xover> But then Tantek linked to his new employer and I was trying to figure out WTF he's doing working at Technorati.
09:26:53 <sbp> oh, say, Mr. Dinski: are gendered ordinal indicators used in Spanish?
09:27:09 <xover> * xover likes "Mr. Dinski"...
09:27:41 <sbp> hmm, so he is. didn't know that
09:28:14 <kandinski_> heh, I like it too
09:28:24 <kandinski_> gendered ordinal indicators?
09:28:29 <kandinski_> yes, and we *love them*
09:28:48 <kandinski_> 1º, because we get to use non-ASCII glyphs
09:29:01 <kandinski_> 2º, just because
09:29:21 <kandinski_> that was masculine, enumerations of points are masculine
09:29:21 <kandinski_> but,
09:29:36 <kandinski_> "razón" (reason) is feminine
09:29:50 <sbp> wait, wait. so when are each used?
09:29:57 <kandinski_> so had I said: "yes, and we *love them* "por dos razones" (for two reasons)
09:30:05 <kandinski_> the two reasons would have been:
09:30:12 <kandinski_> 1ª, blablabla
09:30:18 <kandinski_> 2ª, bla bla bla
09:30:32 <sbp> I see. interesting
09:30:32 <kandinski_> because "razón" is feminine
09:30:45 <kandinski_> SNotD!
09:30:52 <sbp> whoo! I actually invoked one for a change!
09:31:17 <sbp> so it depends on the gender of the thing you're enumerating, defaulting to masculine. any exceptions?
09:31:25 <kandinski_> "razón" (reason) is feminine, "motive" (motivo) is masculine, "excusa" (excuse) is feminine, "propósito" (purpose) is masculine
09:31:39 <kandinski_> well, we default to cardinals a lot
09:31:42 <kandinski_> lazyness
09:31:45 <kandinski_> 1
09:31:46 <kandinski_> 2
09:31:47 <kandinski_> etc
09:32:18 <kandinski_> but no exceptions that I can think of, except that in Spanish there is a lot of implicit concordance
09:33:17 <kandinski_> such as "a sizeable portion of Spaniards do this and that" sometimes would be plural "Spaniards" and sometimes singular "portion" depending on meaning, speaker's whim, education, register...
09:33:34 <kandinski_> so sometimes you get gender mismatches as in "soy una persona muy educada"
09:33:57 <kandinski_> ("persona" is feminine, and I am a man, but I am using the feminine adjective)
09:34:12 <kandinski_> btw, "educada" means polite, well-mannered
09:34:20 <kandinski_> SNotD surfeit
09:34:33 <kandinski_> sbp, why did you ask about the ordinals?
09:34:57 <kandinski_> floors in buildings are usually marked 1º, 2º, 3º, etc...
09:35:04 <kandinski_> but elevators have naked numbers
09:35:27 <xover> * xover likes naked numbers...
09:35:55 <kandinski_> 8
09:36:24 <kandinski_> <xover> hey good looking! (look at the bazoongas on this one)
09:36:28 <xover> * xover assumes a blissfull expression...
09:36:45 <sbp> kandinski_: <sbp> the latter character (the little a) is a Feminine Ordinal Indicator
09:37:47 <kandinski_> where were you discussing that?
09:38:04 <xover> Hmmm. I think, possibly, this might be the case in Swedish as well.
09:38:53 <xover> Provided I understood what y'all were talking about (always in doubt), the Swedes will refer to the floors of a building as if female.
09:39:29 <kandinski_> in Spanish "piso" is masculine, so it is 1º
09:39:53 <kandinski_> yes, provided I understood what you were talking about, I think you understood wat w'all were talking about
09:39:59 <xover> :-)
09:43:05 <sbp> kandinski_: #suwcharman
09:47:40 <kandinski_> ah, missed it
09:49:45 <kandinski_> ah, and something else
09:49:48 <kandinski_> I forgot
09:49:50 <kandinski_> important
09:50:16 <kandinski_> when used as an adjective before a noun, masculine ordinals get "apocopados"
09:50:45 <kandinski_> so it is "primero", "primera", but "primer piso" and "primera planta"
09:50:50 <kandinski_> this is not an exception
09:50:56 <d8uv> Hello
09:51:06 <kandinski_> many adjective have an "apócope" form
09:51:16 <kandinski_> (I love the word "apócope")
09:51:20 <kandinski_> hi d8uv
09:51:37 <kandinski_> the ordinal for apocope "primer" is not on my keyboard
09:52:00 <kandinski_> I wonder whether it is in unicode, it would be a "1" with a superscript underlined "er"
09:52:09 <kandinski_> usually typed "1er"
09:52:21 <kandinski_> as in "1er premio" (first prize)
09:58:36 <kandinski_> .g "1er premio"
09:58:38 <phenny> "1er premio": http://www.reconocimiento.galeon.com/cvitae939814.html
09:58:45 <kandinski_> lots of examples in google
10:04:40 <kandinski_> <sbp> gimme a moment to read some more documentation, and I might have an answer
10:04:50 <kandinski_> canonical riposte
10:15:15 <sbp> heh
10:15:23 <sbp> it was a tad lame
10:15:30 <sbp> I did get there eventually, though
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10:33:06 <Monty> lo MoiraA|Zzzzz
10:33:21 <MoiraA|Zzzzz> hello Monty
10:33:23 <Monty> Whoa, jordan, this :-) hehe
10:33:24 <MoiraA|Zzzzz> haven't changed my nick
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11:07:24 <Monty> Speak of the devil, it's Moira!
11:07:41 <Moira> lo Monty
11:07:43 <Monty> masturbates brain...?
11:07:48 <Moira> heh
11:09:00 <kandinski> Monty, you do
11:09:02 <Monty> ooo, not Sub87 and wiping that it nice?
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11:19:40 <sbp> hey Moira
11:19:48 <Moira> hello sbp
11:19:50 <sbp> toopa: er hi, welcome to Swhack, if you're someone new
11:19:58 <Moira> how r u?
11:20:11 <Moira> I've been playing with BT communicator, trying to get it to work
11:20:15 <sbp> not too bad, thanks. and you? how's work been this week--busy as you expected?
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11:23:36 <Moira> It suddenly got busier last night when one of the platforms went down and we got loads of calls, all with the same problem, ie they registered OK but couldn't connect
11:24:02 <Moira> in fact BT had big problems everywhere, a multiplex went down and retail broadband were really busy too
11:24:16 <sbp> ouch, that sucks
11:24:52 <Moira> yeah, I don't think the press release should ever have gone out, it implied it was a fully functional product and it's anything but
11:25:13 <Moira> the client doesn't work properly, the platforms don't work and the systems aren't great either
11:25:23 <Moira> it's still very much beta
11:25:47 <sbp> well if there are lots using it, perhaps the influx is just a small percentage?
11:26:07 <Moira> it doesn't cost anything at the moment, everyone registering is getting free calls, but they still ring us and complain at having to pay 0870 rates - they seem to think they should get free support for a free product
11:26:15 <Moira> no, it's capped at 700 for the moment
11:26:19 <Moira> we couldn't cope with any more
11:26:32 <sbp> ha
11:26:35 <Moira> once that limit is reached BT will cut it off until it's more developed
11:26:41 <sbp> (at the free support for free product)
11:26:44 <Moira> yeah
11:26:59 <Moira> had someone complaining we should be giving free email support
11:27:00 <sbp> fair enough. it's a bit like Gmail (except Gmail really could go production)
11:27:05 <Moira> yes
11:27:15 <Moira> they seem to have stopped invites too for the moment
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11:40:30 <kandinski> re the topic:
11:41:17 <kandinski> The difference between theory and practice is that according to theory, there shouldn't be any, but practice tells us there is
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12:34:06 <kpreid> * kpreid nods solemnly.
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13:11:00 <JibberJim> Possession of an Alligator is an offence in Florida?
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14:34:47 <xover> JibberJim: Yes.
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14:42:03 <kandinski> nice
14:42:09 <kandinski> now my main desktop is dead
14:42:23 <JibberJim> * JibberJim 's dads desktop died last week
14:42:38 <JibberJim> 180 quid got him a new one...
14:42:40 <kandinski> last summer I had the windows driver for the asus mainboard, whick alerted me when the cpu was too hot
14:43:03 <kandinski> so now I guess I am one brand new CPU (if I can find one for my board) short of a full system
14:43:31 <kandinski> 180 quid == 250 euro?
14:43:53 <JibberJim> yeah
14:44:48 <kandinski> well, I am hoping to get a new cpu for 30-40 euro
14:44:55 <kandinski> but it is the hassle, really, that bothers me
14:45:42 <JibberJim> yeah, his was so old, it was worth getting all the other bits, I was pleasantly surprised by the cost though
14:45:56 <kandinski> headless boxes cost about the same here
14:46:06 <kandinski> for 300 euros you can get a lot of machine
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16:51:07 <Monty> yo toopa!
16:51:10 <toopa> yo!
16:59:39 <JibberJim> toopa welcome - logged - political career - don't admit to goataphilia
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17:18:16 <Monty> hi qopi, how ya doing?
17:18:18 <phenny> Monty: shh, don't let anyone know you're around!
17:18:20 <Monty> it'll make the inference?
17:18:51 <qopi> i'm very well thanks Monty :P
17:18:53 <Monty> editing that Picasa is upside down.
17:19:05 <qopi> yeah, strange that isn't it
17:21:12 <crschmidt> monty, which picasa?
17:21:14 <Monty> Morning all fashionably ripped up!
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18:42:26 <Monty> lo libby
18:42:56 <kandinski> lo libs
18:43:09 <libby> evenin'
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18:56:28 <kandinski> libby, Jim thought my image tagging idea was shite
18:56:33 <kandinski> what do you think?
18:56:44 <libby> heh, aww
18:56:54 <libby> where the link to the logs?
18:57:06 <kandinski> ah, let me find it for you
18:57:09 <kandinski> loggy: pointer
18:57:09 <kandinski> See http://swhack.com/logs/2004-07-18#T18-57-09
18:58:40 <libby> hen were you talking about it? yesterday?
19:00:41 <kandinski> yes, I think so
19:02:07 <kandinski> http://swhack.com/logs/2004-07-17#T14-55-53
19:05:34 <libby> I think you'd have to try it and see :)
19:06:04 <libby> I was wondering about something similar for the text in my moblog, and decided the text was too ambiguous
19:06:14 <libby> also I just use dated dirs
19:12:44 <JibberJim> I didn't think that kandinski!
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19:12:56 <JibberJim> I was just concerned about how accurate the resulting metadata would be!
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19:13:10 <JibberJim> You'd need a "did you really mean to say this was a large cock?"
19:13:36 <JibberJim> (for a picture or the man advertising KFC.)
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21:21:59 <kpreid> teddybot, now more stable
21:21:59 <teddybot> Meditate on this: Get your neck massaged
21:25:18 <jsled> swhack!
21:27:20 <crschmidt> jsled!
21:27:53 <jsled> crschmidt!
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21:37:03 <Monty> Thank goodness, redmonk is back!
21:37:05 <phenny> Be quiet, Monty.
21:37:07 <Monty> len(facts) 1
21:37:18 <jsled> * jsled glares at Monty
21:37:18 <Monty> also I could not s60 bugs with Microsoft it a noun, masculine ordinals get efficiencies and I dont' believe that expensive!
21:37:33 <jsled> ME NEITHER, monty!
21:37:35 <Monty> top-notch erect Netscape?
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22:46:36 <kandinski> loggy:pointer (please)
22:46:36 <kandinski> See http://swhack.com/logs/2004-07-18#T22-46-36
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22:47:32 <kandinski> sorry, Jim
22:47:39 <kandinski> I didn't mean anything bad by it
22:48:01 <kandinski> just that you thought the metadata would be bad, so I assumed you wouldn't like the idea
22:48:22 <kandinski> I think the challenge is in the system that tells when the metadata culled from directory structure is useful
22:49:00 <kandinski> and how to disttinguish "guessed" metadata from explicitly input metadata
22:57:51 <MoiraA> *** MoiraA is now known as MoiraA|bed
22:57:54 <MoiraA|bed> nn
22:58:20 <kandinski> nn m
23:01:44 <JibberJim> yep, if we can distinguish guessed from good it would be good (I just think wrong metadata passed off as good metadata is worse than no metadata at all)
23:02:46 <kandinski> well, but then you can have guessed metadata marked as such, and people can judge for themselves
23:02:52 <kandinski> that is better than no metadata
23:02:55 <kandinski> we can have a gradient
23:03:03 <kandinski> not just "good" and "bad"
23:03:12 <kandinski> you could guess that dates are good, mostly
23:03:30 <kandinski> place names can be as good as the inverse of their frequency
23:03:59 <kandinski> and proper names are mostly useless, but still they could be useful for someone, some times
23:04:02 <kandinski> anyway
23:05:00 <JibberJim> yep, I think if we can mark-it-up meaningfully the idea is good.
23:05:14 <JibberJim> but "confidence levels" are a bit tricky in RDF...
23:05:32 <JibberJim> this is a wordnet:Cock with confidence 5 is ugly!
23:07:09 <kandinski> heh
23:07:11 <kandinski> cocky
23:07:26 <kandinski> well, let's make a special case for "cock"
23:07:52 <kandinski> what about having an option that says "metadata tag your images according to your folders"
23:08:03 <kandinski> some people take an immense amount of pain organising
23:08:17 <kandinski> they would not necesarily tag the same images
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