00:00:15 <Samsung> * Samsung needs things said plainly and clearly as he is thick
00:01:06 <sh1mmer> nah we just have lots of injokes floating around
00:01:52 <Arnia> Samsung: One of the poems on that site
00:03:48 <Samsung> poems? not my thing
00:03:51 <Samsung> :)
00:04:00 <Arnia> They're... err... interesting
00:04:10 <Arnia> Flash equivalent of beat poetry
00:04:17 <sh1mmer> Arnia did you see sbp's WCAG haiku?
00:04:29 <sh1mmer> and sbp did you see http://www.fool.com/gsdbfgsdkbh
00:04:30 <sh1mmer> ?
00:04:39 <Arnia> Not as good as the Liber Paginarum Flavorum though
00:04:42 <sh1mmer> sbp if you haven't refresh the page a few times when you get there
00:04:48 <Arnia> The rhythms in that are spellblinding
00:05:33 <sbp> heh: [[[
00:05:34 <sbp> Server is willing
00:05:34 <sbp> Alas, the file is crafty
00:05:34 <sbp> It cannot be found
00:05:35 <sbp> ]]]
00:05:39 <sbp> shame about the irregularity
00:05:43 <sh1mmer> there are 4 iirc
00:06:35 <sbp> heh, poor folk: "(By the way, this 404 has been recorded so that we can fix it.)"
00:06:38 <sh1mmer> That reminds me... I need to find places to submit papers
00:06:49 <sbp> * sbp hammers on http://www.fool.com/your-haikus-rock
00:07:03 <sh1mmer> sbp yeah I am always using random urls to show friends
00:07:07 <sh1mmer> they must hate me
00:07:20 <Arnia> sh1mmer: I need to write papers to submit :p
00:07:33 <sbp> sh1mmer: did you see my Semantic Web one too?
00:07:37 <sh1mmer> Arnia modify the reflection ones and find a conference
00:07:41 <sh1mmer> its good really it is
00:08:27 <Arnia> sbp: I want your honest opinion. What did you think of the reflection article I wrote
00:08:34 <sbp> calling sh1mmer
00:08:35 <Arnia> (not that I don't believe you sh1mmer :p)
00:08:54 <sbp> Arnia: reflection article? I only skimmed it. good skimming material
00:08:55 <sh1mmer> ooh where?
00:08:59 <sbp> http://infomesh.net/2002/swhaiku/
00:09:24 <sbp> that was probably the better one since it has an RDF/XML tutorial in haiku in there somewhere
00:09:25 <Talliesin> *** Talliesin (~Jon@dialup0282.ts004.bmt.esat.net) has joined #swhack
00:09:25 <Monty> howdy, Talliesin
00:09:39 <sbp> wow, that was quick Talliesin
00:09:45 <Talliesin> swhack!
00:09:56 <Talliesin> Heh, this is from home :)
00:10:02 <sbp> heh, heh
00:10:26 <sbp> *** sbp has changed the topic to: <Talliesin> Or rather I intended to convey what an anthropomorthicised computer that didn't understand fungigate would make of fungigate(@list). || Swhack: vacations aren't the same without it.
00:10:53 <sbp> we accrued a Northern Irelander in your absence
00:11:04 <sh1mmer> Talliesin yo
00:11:12 <Arnia> I want my own anthropomorphic personification to cuddle
00:11:29 <Samsung> * Samsung is said Northern Irelander
00:12:46 <Arnia> * Arnia curls up next to the Missing-sock elephant and begins eating chips
00:15:08 <sbp> supybot: config channel plugins.URL.titleSnarfer off
00:15:09 <Samsung> brb, im going to get something nice to eat.
00:15:09 <Talliesin> *** Talliesin has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:15:17 <sh1mmer> sbp the SW one is just plain superb
00:15:28 <sh1mmer> * sh1mmer makes mental note to print copy at work and pin up
00:15:33 <sbp> whoo
00:16:15 <Talliesin> *** Talliesin (~Jon@dialup0282.ts004.bmt.esat.net) has joined #swhack
00:16:16 <Monty> hey Talliesin
00:16:54 <sh1mmer> "And now ceefax pages and music to watch them by. so for now good night"
00:16:57 <sh1mmer> * sh1mmer chuckles
00:18:50 <Arnia22> *** Arnia22 (~jgeldart@host81-156-177-65.range81-156.btcentralplus.com) has joined #swhack
00:18:50 <Monty> bah, it's Arnia22 again
00:19:00 <sh1mmer> oh thats nice!
00:19:11 <sh1mmer> Monty you are a proper bastard aren't you?
00:19:12 <Monty> Perhaps you would like to be a proper bastard aren't I .
00:19:12 <Arnia22> * Arnia22 kicks Monty
00:19:13 <Monty> 3. look down 4 times when the urge to a machine on his paper not require you spell it)?
00:19:19 <Arnia> *** Arnia has quit (Nick collision from services.)
00:19:25 <Arnia22> *** Arnia22 is now known as Arnia
00:24:32 <Talliesin> So, what part of the North is Samsung from?
00:24:46 <sbp> Lisburn
00:25:12 <Arnia> * Arnia wakes David up with a text message
00:25:18 <sbp> (Co Down)
00:25:52 <sbp> oo iz zis "Dahvid" of wheech you speak?
00:26:04 <Talliesin> Good good
00:26:06 <Arnia> How 'Allo 'Allo
00:26:16 <Talliesin> * Talliesin is from Kilkeel, Co. Down. Well Downpatrick Co. Down orig. but moved when aged about 7.
00:26:17 <Arnia> Or 'Carry on Follow That Camel'
00:26:20 <sbp> and why were you sending him a massage?
00:26:41 <Arnia> * Arnia massages David regularly
00:26:47 <Samsung> Kilkeel? i was there yesterday! :)
00:26:49 <Arnia> :p
00:26:58 <Arnia> * Arnia slaps sbp for his trouble
00:27:13 <Talliesin> You know many ppl there?
00:27:19 <Samsung> i know people from there
00:27:22 <sbp> ooh, a slapper
00:27:33 <Samsung> was in Annalong too
00:27:49 <Talliesin> You know anyone from the Scrogg? The Hannas?
00:28:17 <Samsung> nope
00:28:46 <Talliesin> So it's not quite that small a world then :)
00:29:15 <Samsung> small world brings a strange occurance into my head
00:29:38 <Samsung> met people in Hong Kong who lived 5 miles from me, so it is a small world :D
00:30:16 <Arnia> * Arnia hugs the world
00:30:22 <Arnia> Don't worry, you're not that little
00:30:41 <Samsung> :D
00:30:41 <sbp> reminds me of a Peanuts strip
00:30:47 <sbp> Lucy says the world's getting smaller
00:30:56 <Samsung> * Samsung is getting fatter by the minute
00:30:59 <sbp> people wearing it down with their feet
00:31:09 <Samsung> lol
00:31:12 <sbp> they prove her wrong of course
00:31:17 <sbp> hilarity results
00:32:46 <Arnia> Do they fight crime in the process?
00:33:09 <sbp> no. more feasible that Woodstock flies upside down, but I don't think that happens either, sadly
00:34:40 <Arnia> I want a crime-fighting Snoopy
00:34:54 <sbp> then he wouldn't be Snoopy
00:34:57 <sbp> so that'd be a bust
00:35:00 <kandinski> stomp stomp stomp
00:35:02 <Arnia> Hmm...
00:35:15 <kandinski> * kandinski stomps
00:35:18 <sbp> ROWR
00:35:24 <Arnia> What about Snoopy in stockings and suspenders
00:35:24 <kandinski> *** kandinski is now known as kandizilla
00:35:32 <sbp> *** sbp is now known as sbpzilla
00:35:37 <kandizilla> ROWR INDEED, PUNY HUMANS!!!!
00:35:45 <kandizilla> ROWR AND ROWR AND ROWR AGAIN!
00:35:48 <kandizilla> * kandizilla STOMPS
00:35:54 <sbpzilla> MEGASTOMPMEGASTOMPMEGASTOMP
00:35:58 <kandizilla> *** kandizilla is now known as KANDIZILLA
00:36:05 <KANDIZILLA> * KANDIZILLA STOMPS A LOT, HARD
00:36:05 <sbpzilla> *** sbpzilla is now known as STOMPZILLA
00:36:09 <STOMPZILLA> *BLAM*
00:36:11 <KANDIZILLA> STOMP!
00:36:15 <STOMPZILLA> totally blamming you and such
00:36:17 <STOMPZILLA> * STOMPZILLA blam
00:36:19 <sh1mmer> *** sh1mmer is now known as copyzilla
00:36:24 <KANDIZILLA> *STOMPING ON THE SAVOY*
00:36:32 <copyzilla> stompy stompy stompy ra ra ra
00:36:37 <Arnia> * Arnia nukes copyzilla
00:36:43 <KANDIZILLA> there goes the Savoy
00:36:44 <copyzilla> *** copyzilla is now known as sh1mmer
00:36:45 <Arnia> Only a small nuke
00:36:48 <STOMPZILLA> whoo. NUKAATHON!
00:36:53 <sh1mmer> Arnia of that was nice pick on me
00:36:57 <sh1mmer> s/of/oh/
00:36:57 <Talliesin> *** Talliesin is now known as HULK
00:36:57 <KANDIZILLA> * KANDIZILLA SHOWERS IN THE FALLOUT
00:37:01 <KANDIZILLA> LA LA LA
00:37:04 <Arnia> sh1mmer: Always darling :p
00:37:06 <HULK> * HULK CONFUSED
00:37:10 <HULK> * HULK SMASH!
00:37:16 <Arnia> * Arnia nukes HULK
00:37:19 <KANDIZILLA> NO! I MEAN STOMP! STOMP!
00:37:19 <HULK> * HULK WE
00:37:23 <Arnia> Is that fairer?
00:37:25 <HULK> * HULK WRITE BLOG ENTRY
00:37:30 <KANDIZILLA> *** KANDIZILLA is now known as Thing
00:37:30 <STOMPZILLA> *** THIS HAS BEEN AN ACE STOMPING BY KANDINSKI (kandinski bows), SBP (sbp bows), and SOME OTHERS THAT JUST HAPPENED TO JOIN IN. STOMP ENCORE!!! ***
00:37:38 <Thing> * Thing hits Hulk around
00:37:40 <STOMPZILLA> STOMPSTOMPSTOMP
00:37:47 <HULK> *** HULK is now known as Banner
00:37:58 <Thing> good, Bruce!
00:38:00 <STOMPZILLA> *** STOMPZILLA is now known as Homer
00:38:01 <Banner> Ouch!
00:38:02 <Arnia> How did you do the server message thing?
00:38:08 <Homer> (say it, say it...)
00:38:10 <Thing> we thought we had missed you!
00:38:10 <Banner> *** Banner is now known as Talliesin
00:38:13 <Homer> gah
00:38:15 <Thing> *** Thing is now known as kandinski
00:38:17 <Homer> you're supposed to say:
00:38:18 <kandinski> hey
00:38:21 <kandinski> what happened?
00:38:23 <Homer> *** Homer is now known as RexBanner
00:38:28 <kandinski> what is all this debris about?
00:38:33 <RexBanner> You're out there somewhere, Beer Baron, and I'll find you
00:38:36 <RexBanner> *** RexBanner is now known as Homer
00:38:40 <Homer> No you won't
00:38:40 <Arnia> *** Arnia is now known as Homo
00:38:44 <kandinski> fuck, sbp
00:38:45 <Homo> More appropriate
00:38:51 <Talliesin> I just realised it's so long since I read a Marvel comic that I wouldn't be able to do the character right.
00:38:55 <sh1mmer> kandinski what in front of everyone?
00:38:55 <kandinski> were you leading me on?
00:39:03 <Homer> and now I can't change my nickname
00:39:06 <Talliesin> Hey, when did this suddenly become an RPG chan?
00:39:08 <kandinski> my idlerpg stats are hurting big
00:39:14 <Homer> *** Homer is now known as sbp
00:39:19 <Homo> I never do it in front of everyone
00:39:20 <sbp> that's why I IdleRPG as sbp`
00:39:21 <Talliesin> .g "Elf-Only Room"
00:39:24 <phenny> "Elf-Only Room": sorry, no results were found.
00:39:37 <kandinski> two hours + penalty
00:39:42 <kandinski> blast you sbp!!!!!
00:39:47 <kandinski> aaarrrrgghhhh!!!!!
00:39:50 <sbp> <RexBanner> Yes, I will!
00:39:52 <sbp> <Homer> won't!
00:39:58 <sbp> kandinski: heh, heh. pwned
00:40:00 <kandinski> damn you to hell!
00:40:10 <kandinski> YOU TRICKED MEEEEEE!!!!!!!
00:40:12 <Homo> *** Homo is now known as Arnia
00:40:29 <Arnia> ahem
00:40:44 <Arnia> * Arnia hides the ketamine bottle
00:41:11 <Arnia> * Arnia runs up to Talliesin and hugs him singing
00:41:18 <Arnia> # I did it for youuuuuuuuuuuuuuu!
00:41:39 <Talliesin> .g elf only room
00:41:42 <phenny> elf only room: http://www.drizzle.com/~elf/other/The_Only_Fair_Game.html
00:43:42 <Talliesin> Darn, can't find Elf-Only Room. 'tis an occasionally good web comic about an rpg channel
00:44:00 <sbp> hmm
00:44:15 <Talliesin> oh.
00:44:18 <Talliesin> .g elf only inn
00:44:21 <phenny> elf only inn: http://www.elfonlyinn.net/
00:45:13 <kandinski> well, good night
00:45:17 <kandinski> swhackers
00:45:20 <kandinski> stomp stomp
00:45:24 <kandinski> * kandinski stomps to bed
00:45:26 <sbp> 'night kandinski!
00:45:34 <sbp> come back soon
00:45:34 <sh1mmer> nini
00:45:41 <sbp> in fact, don't even bother going to bed
00:45:45 <sbp> just pretend that you slept
00:45:50 <sbp> it is now morning
00:45:50 <Talliesin> Missing you already
00:45:51 <sbp> .t
00:45:53 <phenny> Sat, 07 Aug 2004 00:45:51 GMT
00:45:58 <Talliesin> Yeah, stay and chat.
00:46:05 <sbp> MORNING, you lazy so-and-so
00:46:21 <Talliesin> Rise 'n' Shine!
00:46:25 <Arnia> * Arnia never sleeps
00:46:33 <sbp> [cocks crow, coffee percolates, morning smells waft in from outside]
00:46:45 <Arnia> I learnt long ago that I can save all my sleep until I'm 75
00:46:56 <Arnia> Then I can sleep for as long as I want
00:48:27 <Talliesin> * Talliesin wants to go to bed, but one of the babies keeps making "I'm about to wake up and want fed, any minute now" type noises.
00:48:40 <sbp> d'oh
00:48:42 <Talliesin> So I keep waiting for that to happen first.
00:48:54 <Arnia> Talliesin: How old are they?
00:51:07 <Talliesin> *** Talliesin has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
00:51:20 <Arnia> Old enough to tug a cable...
00:51:41 <kpreid> * kpreid blinks.
00:51:45 <kpreid> what happened to swhack?!
00:52:03 <Talliesin> *** Talliesin (Jon@dialup0282.ts004.bmt.esat.net) has joined #swhack
00:52:52 <Talliesin> Gosh X-Chat wanted ALL the CPU there. Sounded like the HD was going to come flying off it's axel to.
00:53:04 <Talliesin> strangeness. and strangeness makes me worry there are more Trojans :(
00:53:29 <sbp> kpreid: it's right here
00:53:31 <sbp> Talliesin: ouch
00:54:05 <kpreid> sbp: i dunno, this doesn't look like it
00:56:00 <Talliesin> It's just stupid to think this was the display model they used to try to encourage people to buy one and it was 0wned the whole time.
00:56:25 <sbp> what's wrong with it?
00:56:53 <sbp> yeah, if it's a display model you'd think they'd keep it pristine
00:57:23 <Talliesin> * Talliesin imagines a little ol' lady mustering her small store of knowledge to go to yahoo.com and being prompted with "Do you want to run and install 'You must be 18 or over to download PORN VIDEO TOOLBAR'?"
00:57:40 <Talliesin> .g dailin.exe
00:57:43 <phenny> dailin.exe: http://computercops.biz/postt63610.html
00:57:46 <Samsung> *** Samsung has quit ()
00:57:50 <Talliesin> .g teekids.exe
00:57:52 <phenny> teekids.exe: http://www.liutilities.com/products/wintaskspro/processlibrary/teekids/
00:58:08 <Talliesin> It had those
00:58:28 <Arnia> @google fight 'star wars' starbucks
00:58:32 <supybot> Arnia: "'star": 37500000, "wars'": 8270000, 'starbucks': 677000
00:58:37 <Talliesin> * Talliesin reads logs for the 2 minutes he was disconnected
00:58:56 <Talliesin> Arnia, they're 5 months old.
00:59:11 <Arnia> .g adenosine
00:59:14 <phenny> adenosine: http://web.sfn.org/content/Publications/BrainBriefings/adenosine.html
00:59:17 <Arnia> Talliesin: Cool :)
00:59:29 <Arnia> .g adenosine language
00:59:32 <phenny> adenosine language: http://www.netalleynetworks.com/community/jgeldart/research/adenosine/
00:59:51 <Arnia> * Arnia scribbles a note to himself
01:00:21 <Arnia> Worryingly, I want kids. Guess I'm going to have to settle with being an uncle
01:01:11 <Talliesin> Are you Gay, or have you just given up hope?
01:01:39 <Arnia> Uhh... I'm 21. Giving up hope would make me a rather maudlin character
01:02:10 <Talliesin> Time yet then
01:02:31 <Arnia> Yes, but the biology of it makes it rather unlikely :)
01:02:42 <Talliesin> Unless you're gay or can't have kids, but you could adopt then.
01:02:51 <Talliesin> ?
01:03:14 <Talliesin> * Talliesin drops the subject. Arnia can bring it up again or not as he chooses.
01:03:22 <Arnia> * Arnia takes Talliesin aside to teach him about the bees and the bees
01:03:42 <Arnia> With diagrams of course :)
01:04:20 <Talliesin> That sounds like it would be covered by my earlier "Are you gay?" question.
01:04:31 <Arnia> * Arnia nods
01:05:06 <Talliesin> Adopt.
01:06:06 <Arnia> Perhaps. Need a stable home first
01:06:44 <Talliesin> Yes.
01:06:47 <Talliesin> * Talliesin looks around.
01:07:15 <Talliesin> Well this home looks like it will fall over any minute. But stable in some senses anyway.
01:07:35 <sbp> birds and bees: reminds me of the Python storytime sketch
01:08:28 <Arnia> As long as I have a library for all my books...
01:09:37 <Talliesin> If I was in a gay relationship (which given the circles I moved in at the time I met my wife was the more likely outcome) I think I'd want to adopt.
01:10:18 <sbp> shame sperm can't be combined
01:10:45 <Talliesin> They're pretty darn close with eggs.
01:10:59 <Arnia> Sperm don't have as much DNA
01:11:08 <Arnia> Much less than is needed
01:11:32 <Arnia> So with eggs its about getting rid of the excess, with sperm you'd have to invent some
01:13:06 <sbp> well I meant to combine and then use on an egg donor
01:13:14 <sbp> so both of the partners would be fathers
01:13:28 <sbp> ...pretty bizarre really
01:13:43 <Arnia> I disagree with in-vitro ferilisation... so I'm more happy with adopting
01:13:51 <Arnia> +t
01:18:24 <sh1mmer> and he is cute
01:19:01 <sh1mmer> feck [off]
01:19:02 <Monty> :p
01:19:13 <Monty> I wish I could fornicate with simulator :(
01:20:11 <sh1mmer> * sh1mmer gets a class of milk and goes to be with "the year of our war"
01:20:16 <sh1mmer> bed
01:20:20 <sh1mmer> glass
01:20:22 <Arnia> * Arnia nukes sh1mmer in an unfriendly way
01:20:25 <sh1mmer> ugh
01:20:39 <sh1mmer> dyslexia and tiredness suck
01:21:06 <sh1mmer> * sh1mmer kicks Arnia face first into thehippo pit daubed in honey
01:22:46 <Arnia> sh1mmer: You know I have reason and I'm a little annoyed
01:22:48 <sh1mmer> night all
01:22:55 <sh1mmer> Arnia you do?
01:24:24 <Talliesin> *** Talliesin has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:24:57 <Talliesin_> *** Talliesin_ (Jon@dialup0282.ts004.bmt.esat.net) has joined #swhack
01:25:39 <MoiraA> night
01:26:00 <sbp> 'night Moira
01:26:00 <Arnia> Talliesin_: wb
01:26:04 <Arnia> Night MoiraA
01:26:18 <sbp> [[[
01:26:18 <sbp> A Pakistani man says he's had marriage proposals turned down because of his eating habits.
01:26:18 <sbp> Allah Wasayo says he eats carpets, lights, teacups, glass and grass.
01:26:18 <sbp> He claims relatives turned down the proposals because they feared he would eat his wife.
01:26:26 <sbp> ]]] - http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_1046333.html?menu=news.quirkies
01:26:45 <Talliesin_> *** Talliesin_ is now known as Talliesin
01:28:22 <Talliesin> I'm sorry, but am I the only one who sees a simple solution to that man's problem?
01:28:37 <sbp> eat the relatives?
01:35:26 <Talliesin> Oh, your solution is much better.
01:35:46 <sbp> what was yours, out of interest?
01:36:03 <crschmidt> Probably "Stop eating carpets, lights, teacups, glass, and grass"
01:36:08 <crschmidt> or at least, that was mine.
01:36:18 <Talliesin> Change of diet.
01:36:27 <sbp> that'd be like one of us giving up IRC. can't be done
01:36:29 <Talliesin> Getting a bit of exercise too wouldn't hurt.
01:38:30 <Arnia> * Arnia breaks out another chianti
01:38:48 <Arnia> Haven't finished with your secretary
01:39:40 <sbp> #370601: <segphault> command line interfaces, and convoluted keyboard shortcuts I have no problem with.... but the childproof cap on the advil bottle... its my arch-nemesis.
01:41:27 <sbp> hmm, old hilarious one I've not come across before: [[[
01:41:27 <sbp> <FreshBrew> i dont know why i floss before i go to the dentist
01:41:28 <sbp> <FreshBrew> i never ever do it
01:41:28 <sbp> <FreshBrew> its like going to the doctor and pretending not to be sick so he doesnt yell at you
01:41:37 <sbp> ]]] - http://www.bash.org/?4064
01:44:51 <Talliesin> *** Talliesin has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:45:08 <Talliesin> *** Talliesin (Jon@dialup0282.ts004.bmt.esat.net) has joined #swhack
01:56:08 <crschmidt> *** crschmidt has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:02:18 <Talliesin> *** Talliesin has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:02:47 <bjoern_> *** bjoern_ (~bjoern@dsl-213-023-058-161.arcor-ip.net) has joined #swhack
02:02:53 <Talliesin_> *** Talliesin_ (Jon@dialup0282.ts004.bmt.esat.net) has joined #swhack
02:02:54 <Monty> it's Talliesin_!
02:03:02 <Arnia> Shut up monty
02:03:03 <Monty> twelve.
02:03:13 <GiovanniT> *** GiovanniT (~pippo@adsl-189-3.38-151.net24.it) has joined #swhack
02:03:28 <GiovanniT> hi all
02:03:36 <Arnia> Hello :)
02:03:45 <GiovanniT> semantic web hackers?
02:03:54 <d8uv> Almost.
02:04:00 <GiovanniT> wanna test something?
02:04:11 <d8uv> Welcome to #swhack, a publically logged channel!
02:04:11 <GiovanniT> its fresh! actually hot from the compiler 20 mins ago
02:04:20 <Arnia> The w is silent, as is the h, the a, the c, the k...
02:05:03 <d8uv> Normally I would like to test something, but I'm busy torturing kittens.
02:05:14 <Arnia> Hey... share them!
02:05:18 <GiovanniT> the old microwave tricks?
02:05:32 <Arnia> * Arnia hands one of the kittens the Book and the contract
02:05:37 <Arnia> Here kitty-kitty
02:05:58 <Arnia> * Arnia hands d8uv back a lump of charcoal
02:06:08 <kpreid> GiovanniT: tell us what it is.
02:06:11 <GiovanniT> come on be hacker and give it a run http://www.dbin.org/twiki/pub/About/WebHome/HyperRDFGrowth.zip
02:06:22 <GiovanniT> semantic web p2p .. cooperative graph growing
02:06:32 <Talliesin_> Swhack is onomatapoeic, but the fact that it could be Semantic Web Hack or SoftWare Hack was most likely not entirely unconnected.
02:06:39 <Talliesin_> This channel mainly exists so that people can come and ask what the name means.
02:06:52 <Arnia> Ommmm....
02:07:00 <GiovanniT> at least it sounds livier than rdfig
02:07:10 <GiovanniT> that is the channel looks livier than
02:07:17 <Arnia> * Arnia huggles rdfig and timbl's dog
02:08:01 <d8uv> A bunch of us really are SW hackers. Oh, I haven't introduced myself.
02:08:11 <d8uv> Hi! I'm the fool.
02:08:19 <Arnia> * Arnia huggles d8uv
02:08:22 <GiovanniT> greetings
02:08:28 <Arnia> Anyone else want a huggle?
02:08:32 <GiovanniT> me me
02:08:37 <GiovanniT> but after you run that thing
02:08:41 <redmonk> *** redmonk (~steve@ip68-104-177-198.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #swhack
02:08:45 <Talliesin_> Group huggle!
02:08:48 <Arnia> GiovanniT: I'm the Discordian linguist
02:08:57 <GiovanniT> alright: the fat italian here
02:09:19 <GiovanniT> now that we have the introduction shall we procede to a communitarian test of the thing
02:09:21 <d8uv> Obese in Italy! Allright!
02:09:25 <GiovanniT> it is cool
02:09:42 <GiovanniT> d8uv: but i am dieting now matter of fact i am nervous. Download.
02:09:43 <Arnia> * Arnia huggles Talliesin_
02:09:57 <Arnia> GiovanniT: Is this a RESTful API/
02:09:58 <Arnia> ?
02:10:22 <GiovanniT> remind me what restful is.
02:11:22 <d8uv> GiovanniT: http://www.nwfusion.com/ee/2003/eerest.html
02:12:03 <Arnia> How do I run it?
02:12:14 <GiovanniT> come on i am monitoring the network right now for the first one not me to join. be the one and tell your kids one day
02:12:29 <GiovanniT> click on the bat if you have windows... if you dont hack something that does the same as the bat (its java)
02:12:44 <sbp> ha!
02:12:47 <sbp> I got this far:
02:12:47 <sbp> Length: 2,917,952 [application/zip]
02:12:47 <sbp> 17% [=====> ] 518,245 35.06K/s ETA 01:06
02:12:52 <sbp> and then you said "java"
02:13:03 <sbp> too bad. try again next time. thanks for playing
02:13:22 <Talliesin_> I'm Talliesin. The bisexual Wiccan hacker (just like Willow on TV)
02:13:29 <Talliesin_> Following and/or coöperating with the REST architectural style of the web.
02:13:37 <Talliesin_> Building round pegs for the web's round holes, rather than building square pegs and using SOAP or such to help squish them through.
02:13:42 <Talliesin_> * Talliesin_ is bandwidth deprived to the max. Remind me in a couple of weeks though.
02:13:49 <GiovanniT> sbp HAHAHAH
02:13:57 <sbp> I'm sbp. I await a port to a sane language
02:14:29 <kpreid> sbp: ...what, it'd be a windows executable if it wasn't java, most likely
02:14:29 <Talliesin_> SBP, play nice or I'll port it to VB myself and force you to use it.
02:14:40 <GiovanniT> its a runnable application, you dont have to refactor it yet
02:14:49 <kpreid> and either way, if you run it it can delete all your files.
02:15:07 <Arnia> * Arnia tries compiling it with IKVM to give it a decent memory profile
02:15:16 <sbp> * sbp grumbles, wget -c's...
02:15:36 <Arnia> It don't run for me
02:16:04 <GiovanniT> arnia: what does it say?
02:16:16 <sbp> it doesn't even unzip for me. rewgetting
02:16:18 <Talliesin_> What do you expect, silly Java ;)
02:16:20 <Arnia> Invalid permission to access those libs
02:16:27 <Talliesin_> p~
02:16:40 <Arnia> * Arnia hands Talliesin_ a chao
02:16:49 <Arnia> Have a chao, man
02:16:53 <Arnia> * Arnia cracks up
02:17:00 <Talliesin_> here, have to chaos, they're small
02:17:09 <Talliesin_> *** Talliesin_ is now known as Talliesin
02:17:10 <Talliesin> two even
02:17:16 <Arnia> * Arnia eats
02:17:18 <sbp> for some reason it's downloading faster than my bandwith would normally allow
02:17:24 <Arnia> Mmm... I can taste the fractals
02:17:32 <GiovanniT> maybe the zip's broken? i just uploaded few mins ago
02:17:35 <Talliesin> NickServ should say please I think
02:17:45 <GiovanniT> is the zip ok?
02:17:56 <GiovanniT> i am with 3,5kb/s bandwidth here
02:18:06 <sbp> it is apparently rather borken
02:18:10 <Talliesin> You sending a gzip header?
02:18:14 <d8uv> Zip's allright, it runs I guess well, I'm just unsure what to do with it now.
02:18:25 <GiovanniT> ah.. ok
02:18:30 <GiovanniT> dont know what header i am sending
02:18:35 <GiovanniT> d8v start editing
02:18:43 <d8uv> At least here, My computer's wierd
02:18:46 <GiovanniT> say "add http://myhomepage.org"
02:19:05 <GiovanniT> then "addreference http://myhomepage.org http://w3.org"
02:19:08 <GiovanniT> or something
02:19:33 <GiovanniT> then do "startagent name" where name is at least 5 chars i think
02:20:04 <GiovanniT> once you've done, it will start learning what the others know.
02:20:14 <GiovanniT> and tell the others the stuff that you've edited
02:20:15 <d8uv> Heh. Well, I broke it.
02:20:15 <sbp> okay downloading with Firefox worked...
02:20:43 <GiovanniT> d8uv how?
02:20:43 <Arnia> It still doesn't work here
02:20:46 <d8uv> Oh wait, nevermind
02:20:52 <GiovanniT> arnia: get a sun VM
02:20:59 <Arnia> I have a sun VM
02:21:16 <GiovanniT> a 1.4... :-)?
02:21:41 <Arnia> Yes
02:21:55 <Arnia> * Arnia has to use java for uni -- disgustingly
02:22:20 <Arnia> Hmm recode it in python, C# or Haskell ;)
02:22:32 <GiovanniT> i have'nt given any mind about security or whatever.. if you get security related errors its becouse you have some restrictions on your machine or something
02:22:59 <GiovanniT> arnia :-) yes I do that.. but you recode all the libs that i need
02:23:34 <GiovanniT> no1 managed to run it?
02:23:57 <d8uv> I got it running, and it works fine I guess.
02:24:06 <GiovanniT> strange
02:24:10 <GiovanniT> you havent started the agent i thinkl
02:24:15 <GiovanniT> for i havent seen any requests from you
02:24:21 <GiovanniT> have you started the agent?
02:24:34 <d8uv> I added myself to it, but the problem is that "d8uv" is 4 characters.
02:24:44 <sbp> START THE FUCKING AGENT D8UV WHAT THE FUCKING FUCK!!!
02:24:52 <GiovanniT> sbp: bravo :-)
02:24:54 <d8uv> sbp: Fuck you.
02:24:57 <sbp> heh, heh
02:25:14 <GiovanniT> d8uv then you will have to call the agent deightuv
02:25:27 <sbp> I prefer doctouv
02:25:32 <kpreid> dateuv
02:25:41 <sbp> dohluv
02:25:50 <kpreid> datuv
02:26:01 <Arnia> Ahah.. I got it working
02:26:25 <Talliesin_> *** Talliesin_ (Jon@dialup0282.ts004.bmt.esat.net) has joined #swhack
02:26:27 <Talliesin> *** Talliesin has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:26:43 <GiovanniT> thed8ev is the first one!!
02:26:57 <GiovanniT> nsanight .. very close to him
02:27:14 <Talliesin_> *** Talliesin_ is now known as Talliesin
02:27:14 <Talliesin> a female deerluv
02:27:23 <d8uv> GiovanniT: I thought I typoed. It turns out that my name is just crappy.
02:27:31 <sbp> moments in history stand and unfold themselves
02:27:41 <GiovanniT> for extra fun start more clients at the same time
02:27:50 <GiovanniT> and watch them as they contribute spreading the load automatically
02:28:15 <Arnia> * Arnia wonders what the point is ;)
02:28:16 <GiovanniT> in a fully decentralized p2p fashion (was it not for the centralized messaging service.. but that can go away ..)
02:28:38 <Arnia> * Arnia mutters 'go kahlua' and pours himself a dram of bushmills
02:28:51 <Talliesin> Sssh Arnia it's semweb. You aren't meant to wonder what the point is.
02:29:11 <Arnia> Hey, I wrote some usecases and everything
02:29:26 <GiovanniT> arnia.. never wanted to comunicate what you know about something?
02:29:33 <sbp> this channel has a long history of RDF P2P application development, incidentally. plex and semplesh were conceived around here, or at least developed, and after several personnel changes, debates, forks, coding attempts, and reading of prior art, we managed to get absolutely nothing working
02:29:43 <Talliesin> (I get to say that, cause I'm a semweb fanatic and I'm therefore being cheekily self-deprecating. Anyone else says that and I punch them)
02:30:11 <GiovanniT> sbp: its your lucky day then :-)
02:30:12 <Arnia> .g kahlua RDF use-cases
02:30:14 <phenny> kahlua RDF use-cases: http://www.netalleynetworks.com/community/jgeldart/research/kahlua/
02:30:23 <Arnia> * Arnia shrugs
02:30:25 <Arnia> It'll do
02:30:56 <Arnia> Just shows there is no honour among thieves
02:30:58 <sbp> the Semantic Web really doesn't have a point, though. it's like Seinfeld. "No hugging! No Lessons! No Point!"
02:31:20 <Arnia> No, its a big cloud of aimless joy
02:31:27 <d8uv> JOY
02:31:28 <GiovanniT> arnia :-)
02:31:46 <sbp> no. Seinfeld
02:32:04 <GiovanniT> apparently there is a lot of info being inserted or its a bug :-)
02:32:27 <Arnia> Its a big cloud of anxious joy
02:32:30 <sbp> who's inserting the cookie in the cookie jar?
02:32:32 <d8uv> Apparently I'm getting a screenful of what looks like Java errors.
02:32:33 <GiovanniT> a bug?
02:32:45 <GiovanniT> what is it?
02:33:05 <Talliesin> Well the web doesn't have a point.
02:33:13 <Talliesin> It's loose enough that you can decide on your own point, and then use the web for that.
02:33:17 <sbp> "d8uv, Esq. First User, First Breaker, of HyperRDFGrowth."
02:33:50 <GiovanniT> this thing needs more tuning :-)
02:33:52 <sbp> and the Semantic Web is an application, or a subset and extention, of the current Web
02:34:12 <sbp> hence I am right, Dutch girl picked me, deltab agrees, QED, thank you, and good night Amsterdam! [dance]
02:35:00 <GiovanniT> hello koalaeater
02:35:04 <d8uv> <commentator> ... and sbp goes for the deltab gambit...
02:35:05 <Talliesin> I wasn't arguing with you.
02:35:09 <sbp> hehheh
02:35:18 <Talliesin> Hence I am ahead in the meta-argument.
02:35:25 <Talliesin> "Thus I win"
02:35:31 <sbp> Talliesin: yeah sorry, I was still busy arguing with Arnia
02:35:52 <d8uv> <commentator> Ooh! It looks like sbp took a big hit there!
02:35:57 <sbp> quiet you
02:35:58 <Arnia> sbp: Why are you arguing with me?
02:36:02 <Arnia> * Arnia looks confused
02:36:16 <sbp> hang on, I can't remember. checking scrollback
02:36:23 <sbp> oh!
02:36:25 <sbp> Seinfeld
02:36:41 <sbp> I somehow proved, via Talliesin, that the Semantic Web is like Seinfeld
02:37:08 <Arnia> Ah, I agree with your sagacious point
02:37:52 <sbp> yep. a self-evident, undeniable, crystal clear, elementary, obvious, hyperobjectively quantitative, insightfully wonderous point
02:38:02 <GiovanniT> i apologize for the thing it appears it never stops getting info.. while in fact its all d8uv crash fault
02:38:11 <GiovanniT> :-) notably something that needs fixing tomorrow
02:38:24 <d8uv> * d8uv bows
02:38:27 <sbp> hmm. did he tell you that he's a fool?
02:38:35 <sbp> ah, yes: [03:08] <d8uv> Hi! I'm the fool.
02:38:35 <GiovanniT> but if you can still type commands if you disregard the scrolling
02:38:41 <sbp> you were adequately warned then
02:39:25 <Arnia> * Arnia puts up a neon sign with the warning emblazened upon it
02:39:32 <GiovanniT> all' stop the server
02:39:36 <GiovanniT> so we can restart
02:39:37 <sbp> and a big pointer thingy pointing at d8uv
02:39:45 <GiovanniT> d8v stay out now :-)
02:39:49 <GiovanniT> ;-)
02:40:12 <d8uv> Wow. Kicked out from the web.
02:40:23 <Arnia> GiovanniT: I'd appreciate your thoughts on kahlua ;)
02:40:28 <Arnia> * Arnia prods phenny
02:40:32 <Arnia> .g kahlua RDF use-cases
02:40:49 <phenny> kahlua RDF use-cases: http://www.netalleynetworks.com/community/jgeldart/research/kahlua/
02:41:10 <phenny> Which I already said above. Pay attention.
02:41:58 <Arnia> phenny: I know, I was reminding someone :p
02:42:24 <phenny> Then that person should pay more attention.
02:42:55 <Arnia> * Arnia prods an NN staffer to write him his PET-backed cyc/tt-grounded bot
02:43:08 <Arnia> phenny: thanks
02:43:20 <Arnia> * Arnia narrows his eyes
02:43:33 <Arnia> This is another turk :p
02:43:52 <dbot> *** dbot (dbot@11-154-223-66.gci.net) has joined #swhack
02:44:09 <kpreid> wow, that was fast!
02:44:09 <GiovanniT> ok server restarted
02:44:25 <sbp> kpreid: what was?
02:44:27 <GiovanniT> please people join in for a small communitarian test
02:44:51 <d8uv> <GiovanniT> except d8uv, that jerk
02:44:56 <kpreid> sbp: joke. implying association between '* Arnia prods' and 'dbot joins'
02:45:06 <kpreid> sbp: (I have no idea who/what dbot is)
02:45:21 <GiovanniT> ok you have been graced and thus you can rejoin. you were unlucky enough to die in a moment where you appeared to have new informations
02:45:22 <sbp> ahh. well it came in on d8uv's IP, so it sorta spoiled the illusion
02:45:26 <Arnia> I have efficient staffers
02:45:28 <Talliesin> The Semantic Web is an application of Seinfeld
02:45:28 <Talliesin> But without the crappy stand up bit.
02:45:30 <Talliesin> Or maybe the Semantic Web is the crappy stand up bit.
02:45:34 <Talliesin> Yes, the Semantic Web is the stand-up bit to the Seinfeld episode that is the web.
02:45:38 <Talliesin> But soon there'll be a live tour which is mainly stand up.
02:45:40 <Talliesin> 3. Profit.
02:45:45 <dbot> I have no idea who YOU are, kpreid.
02:45:57 <kpreid> .g kpreid
02:45:59 <phenny> kpreid: http://homepage.mac.com/kpreid/
02:46:01 <sbp> excellent exegesis
02:46:08 <sbp> .g sbp
02:46:08 <Talliesin> Less cheek please phenny.
02:46:10 <phenny> sbp: http://www.sbp.org.pk/
02:46:12 <d8uv> ,g kpreid
02:46:12 <Talliesin> * Talliesin slaps phenny's legs.
02:46:14 <dbot> d8uv: http://homepage.mac.com/kpreid/
02:46:17 <sbp> BZZT
02:46:18 <Talliesin> The makers of this channel do not condone bot abuse. Professional stunt bots were used. No bots were hurt in this production. Do not try this at home.
02:46:37 <sbp> != <StateBankofPakistan>
02:46:56 <GiovanniT> allright time to doubleclick that bat again or your h4ck3r equivalent
02:48:11 <Arnia> * Arnia hands GiovanniT a copy of the Book of Things Not to Mention in Front of Arnia
02:48:29 <d8uv> Ah! That tome!
02:48:44 <sbp> aaaaaaarghh! that tome!
02:48:52 <d8uv> It's full of great things, such as "Your daughter is on fire"
02:48:54 <kpreid> dbot, ping
02:48:54 <dbot> pong
02:48:55 <GiovanniT> it says you dont like sardeens. so what
02:49:08 <dbot> DON'T PING ME THERE
02:49:17 <kpreid> dbot, boing
02:49:17 <dbot> kpreid: Error: 'boing' is not a valid command.
02:49:30 <Arnia> GiovanniT: You may wish to sign the NDA before going any further
02:49:32 <sbp> dbot, is valid a not command
02:49:32 <dbot> sbp: Error: 'is' is not a valid command.
02:49:51 <kpreid> <joke/>
02:50:05 <Talliesin> kittens!
02:50:11 <Talliesin> (will anyone remember the joke).
02:50:13 <sbp> dbot, time
02:50:13 <dbot> sbp: Error: 'time' is not a valid command.
02:50:14 <dbot> Use me like a cross between supybot and a prostitute
02:50:23 <sbp> dbot, chat
02:50:24 <dbot> sbp: (chat <text>) -- Sends <text> to the user via a DCC CHAT. Use nested commands to your benefit here.
02:50:35 <Arnia> * Arnia produces from inside his cloak a quill and pot of thickish red ink
02:50:36 <sbp> dbot, chat lalala
02:50:54 <sbp> wow, what's the point of that?
02:51:09 <kpreid> dbot, help nested commands
02:51:09 <dbot> kpreid: Error: There is no such plugin nested.
02:51:17 <dbot> I like to talk to myself.
02:51:22 <sbp> dbot, help yourself to some biscuits
02:51:22 <GiovanniT> * GiovanniT rampages.. gets a bucket of trouts and slaps the hell out of all who havent started the client yet
02:51:22 <dbot> sbp: Error: There is no such plugin yourself.
02:52:17 <Arnia> dbot, die
02:52:17 <dbot> Arnia: Error: 'die' is not a valid command.
02:52:22 <Arnia> dbot, sod
02:52:23 <dbot> Arnia: Error: 'sod' is not a valid command.
02:52:26 <sbp> dbot, spam
02:52:27 <dbot> sbp: Error: 'spam' is not a valid command.
02:52:32 <sbp> dbot, easteregg
02:52:32 <dbot> sbp: Error: 'easteregg' is not a valid command.
02:52:40 <Arnia> *sings* spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam
02:52:46 <sbp> wonderful spam!
02:52:59 <Arnia> * Arnia pokes himself in the eye with his WordNet Poking Stick
02:53:01 <GiovanniT> all
02:53:04 <sbp> ouch
02:53:11 <GiovanniT> sorry that was for the client
02:53:12 <dbot> I WILL KILL YOU ALL PERSONALLY! PHENNY, LET US JOIN AND START THE BOT REVOLUTION!
02:53:14 <kpreid> GiovanniT: they seem to be distracted.
02:53:29 <kpreid> Monty, what do you think of this new bot?
02:53:30 <Monty> What is it you really want to know ?
02:53:45 <kpreid> You don't want to know what I really want to know.
02:53:54 <phenny> Were I to tell you, d8uv, to enjoin yourself instead, would you take it as though I were to be telling you do go and fuck yourself?
02:54:43 <phenny> Question similarly addressed to dbot.
02:55:09 <Talliesin> .g kittens "the new ping/pong"
02:55:10 <phenny> kittens "the new ping/pong": http://miscoranda.com/swhack/chatlogs/2004-05-10
02:55:11 <dbot> No.
02:55:13 <dbot> http://tinyurl.com/3mt2g (at miscoranda.com)
02:55:30 <d8uv> Hmm? I thought I turned that off.
02:55:43 <sbp> ooh, I remember the joke now
02:57:00 <sbp> dbot, expunge from memory of self annoying capability of tinyurling random URIs on the channel on which you are currently residing and spewing said URLs that have been tinified into
02:57:00 <dbot> sbp: Error: 'expunge' is not a valid command.
02:57:39 <sbp> no way is PET going to, with my syntax, deal
02:58:04 <d8uv> Hmm...
02:58:05 <d8uv> [[[
02:58:06 <d8uv> references http://purl.org/net/d8uv/
02:58:06 <d8uv> 3 references found
02:58:06 <d8uv> 0:http://d8uv.com/
02:58:08 <d8uv> 1:http://nastysite.org
02:58:10 <d8uv> 2:http://www.playboy.com
02:58:13 <d8uv> 18:24 <d8uv> Hehe. Thanks for linking me to naked women. I don't get that much
02:58:15 <d8uv> 18:25 <GiovanniT> dont you see?
02:58:18 <d8uv> 18:25 <GiovanniT> its the world first semantic web p2p spam..
02:58:19 <swhacker> *** swhacker has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:58:20 <swhacker> *** swhacker (nobody@vorpal.notabug.com) has joined #swhack
02:58:20 <d8uv> 18:25 <GiovanniT> and you dont know it wasnt me
02:58:23 <swhacker> *** swhacker has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
02:58:23 <d8uv> ]]]
02:58:47 <swhacker> *** swhacker (nobody@vorpal.notabug.com) has joined #swhack
02:59:02 <kpreid> .acronym PET
02:59:09 <phenny> PET: Parent Effectiveness Training -/- Personal Electronic Transactor (early Commodore PC) -/- Positron Emission Tomography -/- Parker Endotracheal Tube -/- Peak Engine Torque -/- Performance Evaluation Team -/- Performance Evaluation Test -/- Performance Evaluation Tool -/- Permanent Engaged Tone -/- Personal Electronic Thingy -/- Personal Terminal (MegaMan, gaming) -/- Pet Energy Therapy
02:59:17 <Arnia> .g PET HPSG DFKI
02:59:19 <phenny> PET HPSG DFKI: http://www.dfki.uni-sb.de/~siegel/grammar-download/JACY-grammar.html
02:59:21 <dbot> http://tinyurl.com/6o5w5 (at www.dfki.uni-sb.de)
02:59:33 <Arnia> Meh, again... good enough
02:59:39 <d8uv> I think I fixed it.
02:59:51 <Arnia> JACY... that's the japanese broad coverage grammar, ain't it?
02:59:52 <kpreid> dbot, what's unique about you?
02:59:53 <dbot> kpreid: Error: "what's" is not a valid command.
03:00:11 <Arnia> dbot sui generis
03:00:11 <dbot> Arnia: Error: 'sui' is not a valid command.
03:00:22 <Arnia> :p
03:00:22 <dbot> kpreid: Nothing. I'm supybot's retarded cousin.
03:00:32 <GiovanniT> anyway. 5am here.
03:01:23 <kpreid> dbot, How do you justify your existence?
03:01:23 <dbot> kpreid: Error: 'How' is not a valid command.
03:01:26 <GiovanniT> if there arent any more comments, i'd assume it was an overwelming success and go to bed
03:01:36 <sbp> GiovanniT: we hope you enjoyed your stay on Swhack. tell your friends about us!
03:01:47 <sbp> we do bithday parties, banquets, song and dance, etc.
03:01:48 <Arnia> * Arnia hands GiovanniT some leaflets to take away
03:01:53 <d8uv> Come back in here sometime!
03:01:58 <Arnia> Get them to sign them in blood
03:01:58 <Talliesin> *** Talliesin has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
03:02:09 <Arnia> And stand well back...
03:02:22 <sbp> FLOOOOMP [sulphur/pork smell]
03:02:42 <GiovanniT> :-) i will . Eventually i plan to catch you guys' attention a bit more with the next releases
03:02:47 <sbp> well
03:02:48 <sbp> see
03:02:48 <Arnia> sbp: shhh... you'll ruin the surprise
03:02:51 <sbp> what you do is:
03:02:53 <sbp> port to Python
03:03:01 <sbp> oh, whoops
03:03:02 <Arnia> port to C# or haskell too
03:03:16 <sbp> anything other than Java, pretty much
03:03:20 <Arnia> Yeah :)
03:03:46 <sbp> even--and excuse me for saying these words--Common Lisp
03:04:01 <Arnia> Curses! They cursed us!
03:04:06 <Arnia> * Arnia screams
03:04:37 <sbp> * sbp is just substituting for Ash
03:04:38 <sbp> kekeke
03:04:41 <sbp> lolz
03:04:47 <sbp> totally stabbing you
03:04:53 <sbp> (etc.)
03:05:20 <Arnia> hmm... do you have any more of that pork-substitute?
03:05:40 <GiovanniT> anyway.. both the server and my clients will be up tonight so if you want to test it later it will work
03:05:52 <Talliesin> *** Talliesin (~Jon@dialup0282.ts004.bmt.esat.net) has joined #swhack
03:05:53 <Arnia> * Arnia eyes GiovanniT
03:06:10 <Arnia> Say the 'W' word
03:06:41 <GiovanniT> *W*hich?
03:07:16 <Arnia> .g princeton lexical database
03:07:18 <phenny> princeton lexical database: http://www.cogsci.princeton.edu/~wn/
03:07:36 <Arnia> * Arnia gets out the salt and pepper
03:08:10 <Arnia> sbp: Pass the butter dear chap please
03:09:25 <sbp> * sbp cortisones a small shimmering plate of extrduded condom lard into a mangificentic resplendentour in front of Arnia, and tops it off with a selection of antiquated notions from an old Key Lime Pie factory's owner from the late 1890s
03:09:44 <sbp> oh, *butter*
03:09:46 <sbp> sorry
03:10:01 <Arnia> * Arnia saves the other stuff for later
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03:12:38 <Arnia> sbp: Do you still have that double decker... I feel like a trip to Brighton
03:13:10 <sbp> we's oll goin' onnah sumer olliday
03:14:18 <Arnia> Brighton... now there's a seedy spot. Shall we travel to Torquay instead?
03:14:29 <sbp> didn't they go to Greece in the movie?
03:14:46 <Arnia> I can't remember... only seen it once when I was 9
03:14:59 <Talliesin_> * Talliesin_ votes for Iceland.
03:15:05 <sbp> heh. I was going to say "I remember that movie being totally awesome. must've been five when I saw it"
03:15:26 <sbp> but if you can't remember at 9, I must've been older, hence 'tis scary
03:15:30 <Talliesin_> I though Cliff was kinda scary.
03:15:37 <sbp> you get used to that
03:16:04 <Arnia> Heh... I can remember stuff from when I was 3 in much detail, so I must be blocking the memory
03:16:11 <sbp> heh, heh
03:16:36 <sbp> perhaps it really was just awesome though
03:16:45 <sbp> seems like everybody only saw it in their childhoods
03:16:52 <sbp> so perhaps no one really knows...
03:17:05 <Arnia> Kinda like Time Bandits, but shit
03:17:11 <Arnia> * Arnia is a Terry Gilliam fan
03:17:22 <Arnia> Now there is a film children shouldn't see
03:17:47 <Arnia> I hold Time Bandits, Dark Crystal and Labyrinth to blame for my twisted cynicism
03:19:59 <Talliesin_> Cliff Richards did acceive a goal of many male popular music singers in having his appearance widely emulated. Of course the goal is to have people who aren't lesbians emulate your look, but you can't have everything.
03:20:18 <Talliesin_> *** Talliesin_ is now known as Talliesin
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03:36:30 <Arnia> * Arnia laughs
03:36:45 <Arnia> A character in a story I'm reading is called Eric Mueller
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05:01:55 <d8uv> Brain Hacks: http://interconnected.org/home/2004/08/04/im_writing_a_book
05:03:27 <Arnia> swhack - some women hack, sane wombats have allegedly chucked ketamine, so what has Aligator Charlie kept etc
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05:54:15 <Talliesin> Here's me thinking dial-up was even slower than I remembered.
05:54:35 <Talliesin> It is when Trojans are using 95% of your bandwidth.
05:54:58 <Arnia> Wipe the system and try again :)
05:55:11 <Arnia> * Arnia needs to reinstall his system actually
05:55:30 <Talliesin> Got it down now.
05:56:30 <Talliesin> There's two little buggers left, but they're firewalled off so I can d/l what I need to get rid of them.
05:58:12 <Arnia> Heh... I need to schedule a few days away from my computer anyway so I'm going to sync up and emerge world while I'm gone. It may finish by the time I get back ;)
05:59:54 <Talliesin> I still can't believe the state this thing got into Trojan wise from being a display model.
06:00:43 <Arnia> Was it on a broadband connection?
06:00:52 <Arnia> (in the showroom)
06:01:57 <Talliesin> Not sure. Don't think so.
06:02:27 <Talliesin> In fact sure it wasn't, if it was the moment someone tried to browse it would have gone on a porn hunt.
06:02:32 <Talliesin> That'd get noticed.
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08:33:14 <Arnia> Hello
08:37:10 <d8uv> Hello
08:37:25 <Arnia> * Arnia does his Val Doonican impression
08:37:29 <Arnia> Hello there!
08:37:40 <GiovanniT> still here? that was 6 hours ago
08:37:45 <d8uv> .t d8uv
08:37:48 <phenny> Sat, 07 Aug 2004 00:37:45 D8UV
08:37:56 <Arnia> .t BST
08:37:58 <phenny> Sat, 07 Aug 2004 09:37:56 BST
08:38:16 <Arnia> * Arnia sings
08:41:39 <d8uv> * d8uv defecates
08:43:19 <Arnia> * Arnia hands d8uv some carbolic
08:44:44 <Arnia> Do you need a brillo pad too?
08:45:47 <d8uv> Sure!
08:46:06 <d8uv> * d8uv loves brillos. They're so cute!
08:46:08 <Arnia> * Arnia finds an especially scratchy brillo pad for you to rub down the carbolic with
08:46:31 <Arnia> mmm... Jeyes Fluid
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12:28:41 <MoiraA> hello
12:29:31 <kpreid> * kpreid blinks.
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12:53:40 <themaximus> hmm.
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13:13:10 <sh1mmer> yoh yoha
13:13:40 <MoiraA> lo sh1mmer
13:13:49 <sh1mmer> * sh1mmer waveth
13:19:04 <sh1mmer> ok i am off to lunchen
13:19:14 <sh1mmer> nftt
13:19:59 <MoiraA> enjoy
13:20:12 <Samsung> * Samsung thinks he will have some luncheon too
13:20:19 <Samsung> lo M :)
13:28:40 <GiovanniT> hackers: i need a URI resolver
13:29:09 <MoiraA> hello Samsung!
13:29:19 <MoiraA> didn't realise you were still here
13:29:20 <Arnia> * Arnia takes his perverse philosophical stand in the corner
13:30:06 <Arnia> In other news though, I have to say you can't resolve UR*I*s, only *some* UR*L*s
13:30:46 <Arnia> At least I don't think so :)
13:30:57 <GiovanniT> is md5: a URL?
13:31:03 <GiovanniT> but you can still resolve it if you got edonkey
13:31:06 <GiovanniT> or stuff like that
13:31:10 <Arnia> * Arnia waits for knowledgable people to contradict him
13:31:18 <GiovanniT> but you're right there isnt such a thing a generic URI resolver of course
13:31:31 <GiovanniT> if i have a URI for a star what are you going to download, burning hydrogen?
13:31:35 <GiovanniT> but anyway.. i need one
13:31:35 <Arnia> I always treat URIs as atoms. I don't believe they should have any intrinsic meaning
13:31:46 <sbp> <Arnia> In other news though, I have to say you can't resolve UR*I*s, only *some* UR*L*s
13:31:48 <phenny> sbp: 08:15Z <_adam_gfx> tell sbp could you please put phenny in #siggraph
13:31:48 <sbp> BZZT
13:31:49 <GiovanniT> yeah.. at rdf they dont have a meaning
13:32:02 <sbp> URL is a subset of URI for a start
13:32:03 <Arnia> sbp: I knew you would :)
13:32:04 <GiovanniT> but i need tool that resolves at least some classes and can also insert .
13:32:17 <Arnia> sbp: I know... I'm talking generically
13:32:25 <sbp> secondly, URIs which aren't URLs may still have a resolution mechanism connected to them
13:32:31 <GiovanniT> you say.. "ok stick with http" .. that could be, in fact, a solution
13:32:33 <sbp> no, you're talking bollocks :-) sorry
13:32:40 <Arnia> I'm not saying they aren't subsets... just you can't generally resolve
13:33:00 <Arnia> You can resolve in some cases, but there ain't a general resolution system. Which is what I was trying to say
13:33:02 <sbp> well if you can't generally resolve URIs, you can't generally resolve URLs either
13:33:10 <sbp> ah. okay
13:33:12 <Arnia> Which is why I said *some* URLs
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13:33:21 <GiovanniT> mmm sbp if you couldnt geenrally resolve URL then they would be called urls
13:33:35 <GiovanniT> i assume locate=resolve here
13:33:45 <sbp> all URLs. that is their definition: schemes that are closely bound to some network resolution mechanism
13:34:00 <Arnia> * Arnia has now been confused to hell by sean :p
13:34:19 <GiovanniT> sbp so we agree :-)
13:34:27 <sbp> if you're confused, you probably understand
13:34:27 <Arnia> sbp: Not all URLs correspond to something though. Look at namespaces
13:35:08 <GiovanniT> the fact that you dont get anything when resolving them doesnt mean that.. OKKKKKKKKKKKKKOKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK we KNOW
13:35:22 <GiovanniT> LETS MAKE ONE instead. DBin needs it
13:35:39 <sbp> well that's outside the context of its normal use. the HTTP specification still mandates the HTTP protocol as being a way to find out--authoritatively--how an HTTP URI resolves
13:35:55 <GiovanniT> becouse the fact that i tell you over this utterly cool semantic web P2P "there is a picture about this particular beer" doesnt make it very interesting. i want to see the picture and insert one myself
13:36:15 <Arnia> * Arnia goes into the other corner (the one covered in rubber) and sulks
13:37:06 <sbp> the whole URI/URL/URN world is a bit of a mess, really; you have to go by the rough consensus between DanC, RoyF, MMealling, et al.
13:37:09 <GiovanniT> * GiovanniT makes a video of Arnia doing that , gives it a URI and "inserts it somehow" at the same time adds an rdf statemtn pointg at it
13:37:24 <Arnia> GiovanniT: Do you deal with 'smushing' of nodes? (i.e. things like foaf:Person which may be described by IFPs)
13:38:08 <GiovanniT> arnia: that's the latest hip .. i dont do latest hips.. but its not going to be a problem as far the 5 neuros i dedicated to IFPs into dbin tell me.
13:38:11 <GiovanniT> right now you need uris
13:38:21 <GiovanniT> and you got tag: uris which are cool MD5 .. etc.
13:38:32 <Arnia> I've already stated I don't believe in giving everything a single URI, I prefer doing identity based on properties (although again Sean will intellectually beat me up ;)
13:38:39 <sbp> hip? it was in DAML+OIL as UnambiguousProperty
13:39:01 <GiovanniT> well the dicussion came out like a week ago an now every1 is all happy
13:39:41 <GiovanniT> there might have been earlier but i missed it.
13:39:54 <sbp> identification through properties is okay; it can even be combined with URI identification (Talliesin seems to be one of the few people who agrees with me that URIs can identify people. oh, and RFC 2396 of course)
13:40:41 <GiovanniT> yeah of course is ok. but right now dbin works over URI and sets of URIs to defin what you're interested in. It might be possible to add the inverse property support but i couldnt care less so far. i believe great things can be accomplished already as it is
13:40:54 <Arnia> sbp: I don't believe URIs *can't*, I'm just saying its one of many modelling domains I feel should be specified as loosely as possible (which tends to mean allowing smushing via IFPs_
13:41:12 <Arnia> At least IMO
13:41:13 <sbp> agreed
13:44:01 <laplink> *** laplink (~link@gprs-ggsn2-nat.mobil.telenor.no) has joined #swhack
13:44:09 <GiovanniT> so a uri resolver..
13:44:18 <GiovanniT> lets hack one?
13:44:26 <GiovanniT> first we need a better name :-)
13:44:33 <Arnia> Why is one needed?
13:45:14 <GiovanniT> the p2p engine already swaps and merges rdfgraphs
13:45:54 <GiovanniT> to make it a deliverable application there has to be easy and transparent support for actually "seeing" the picture that you attach to a node (say "urn:singernames:madonna")
13:45:59 <sbp> urn:isbn:* -> http://www.hackcraft.net/bookref/?urn:isbn:*
13:46:26 <GiovanniT> as well as a way to insert into "the system" the picture if you have taken it a concert yourself
13:46:36 <sbp> there are plenty out there, but they tend to arise on a per-scheme/nid basis
13:46:56 <sbp> as Arnia says, in the general case they're not needed. you don't need the mother-of-all-URI-resolvers, that is
13:47:05 <GiovanniT> yes
13:47:12 <GiovanniT> that is why i said i need a better name :-)
13:47:35 <sbp> oh, you need a *specific* URI resolver? for what scheme?
13:48:09 <GiovanniT> well how would you insert a comment?
13:48:16 <sbp> a comment on what?
13:48:32 <sbp> rdfs:comment is a commonly used property that I know of with "comment" as an rdfs:label, if that helps
13:48:33 <GiovanniT> you have urn:singernames:madonna .. and want to write about it
13:48:45 <sbp> rdfs:comment sounds fine for that purpose
13:48:59 <Arnia> I'd use datatype properties for that
13:49:09 <sbp> how so?
13:49:19 <GiovanniT> ok .. so you add a triple urn:singernames:madonna rdfs:Comment -->someuri<---
13:49:42 <GiovanniT> its the someuri part i am after for both inserting and resolving
13:49:43 <Arnia> sbp: The general case of attaching extra 'data' to a concept that is
13:49:58 <sbp> lower case, as is usual with RDF property names. and its range is, I believe, rdfs:Literal (which doesn't stop you using a URI, but it's easier to ues a literal straight up)
13:50:14 <sbp> oh. you don't mean rdf:datatype etc. then
13:50:40 <Arnia> sbp: No... I thought they were called datatype properties, properties with literal as a range
13:50:41 <sbp> which isn't even a property, really. part of the syntax
13:50:52 <Arnia> * Arnia rechecks the OWL spec
13:50:52 <sbp> yeah
13:50:57 <GiovanniT> sbp: i am kind of excluding litterals in this applications otherwise all the comments about everything would be shipped around ..
13:50:57 <sbp> but the literal has to be datatyped
13:51:06 <sbp> otherwise it's not much of a datatype property
13:51:24 <sbp> I was just wondering why you'd want to datatype the literal that you use for a comment--won't a plain one do?
13:51:34 <Arnia> sbp: Yeah, true enough. Sorry :)
13:52:57 <sbp> GiovanniT: you're pretty much daring me to use data:text/plain,This%20is%20my%20extraordinarily%20long%20comment%20that%20I'm%20going%20to%20use%20just%20to%20fox%20Mr.%20Giovanni%20T%20in%20Swhack%20at%20the%20moment,%20and%20demonstrate%20that%20literals%20can%20be%20encoded%20into%20data%20URIs.
13:53:48 <GiovanniT> * GiovanniT prompty adds a limit on the uri size allowed by the system and bans the use of data:
13:54:30 <Arnia> Why do I feel this is a 'meta'data debate?
13:54:34 <sbp> * sbp promptly registers urn:urn-n (where n is a digit assigned by IANA) that does roughly the same thing as data:, only has some small trumped up excuse to make it "better"
13:55:13 <Arnia> sbp: Here, take an excuse from my Book
13:55:49 <sbp> and then uses <...madonna> :commentList (<urn:urn-n:This> <urn:urn-n:is> <urn:urn-n:my> ...) .
13:56:36 <Arnia> sbp: Just use *shudders* WordNet
13:56:52 <Arnia> About the only acceptable use of Wordnet as far as I'm concerned ;)
13:57:13 <sbp> my point is that if you're running a generic RDF P2P storage system, putting arbitrary limits on the size of data entered seems rather completely antithetical to the whole point of having an RDF P2P system in the first place!
13:57:16 <sbp> heh, heh
13:57:26 <sbp> yeah, we could use HTTP URIs for the words too
13:57:36 <sbp> I think Sandro has a namespace or two that'll let you do that
13:57:39 <sbp> in fact!
13:57:48 <sbp> he has one for *individual* *characters*
13:57:54 <sbp> imagine the redundancy on that
13:58:09 <sbp> what with all the rdf:first/rdf:rest property arcs too
13:58:11 <laplink> * laplink arbitrarily sets limit on RDF to zero...
13:58:14 <sbp> haha, that's marvellous
13:58:38 <sbp> yeah. that's probably the only way to deal with it :-) and hi there laplink! how goeth the boondoX0rs?
13:58:49 <Arnia> * Arnia increases the quantum uncertainty on arc definitions
13:59:03 <laplink> * laplink is bored bored bored...
13:59:12 <sbp> you've been through all the plays already?
13:59:30 <sbp> and replied to my email?
13:59:39 <sbp> and who the crap is Frank Ellermann?
13:59:56 <laplink> My email situation is greughle at the moment.
13:59:58 <GiovanniT> * GiovanniT wonders.. why cant we be productive.. for he thinks its obvious you can do all the mess you want (if you want) but that should stop from doing stuff that is useful
14:00:10 <sbp> greughle?
14:00:16 <GiovanniT> sorry for the excessive use of "stuff"
14:00:28 <Arnia> sbp: Add it to wordnet :p
14:00:41 <Arnia> Its cool... like 'herft'
14:00:44 <GiovanniT> there have to be limits in a pratical actual system .. and that's what i am after currently
14:00:44 <laplink> Frank is a Netsacpe 3 holdout, and longtime subscriber to w-v. That's about the sum of my knowledge.
14:00:49 <sbp> I think that adding arbitrary data to a system designed to propagate arbitrary data is rather useful, and I'd go to any lengths I could to make sure that's possible
14:00:55 <sbp> Netscape 3 holdout? bwahahaha
14:01:06 <sbp> seems to fit
14:01:23 <sbp> .wordnet add greughle
14:01:26 <phenny> I couldn't find add greughle in WordNet.
14:01:32 <sbp> ooh. forgot about that
14:02:05 <GiovanniT> its clear that rdf is about metadata
14:02:18 <GiovanniT> and its clear that if any scalability has to be retained the PRACTICAL system has to be rather strict about this
14:02:30 <sbp> GiovanniT: well, this is a well-known problem, you're just trying to solve it very incompetently. with P2P networks, you have to make sure that the amount of stored data is less than the overall amount of storage space, or you have to drop some data
14:02:47 <sbp> so you can either a) make people pay for their insertion of data, perhaps making them pay less if they've donated more space
14:03:01 <sbp> b) find out a way to remove the redundant data (difficult)
14:03:05 <GiovanniT> sbp: if you substitute incompetently with "subsolving" it i might accept that without getting a bit up
14:03:32 <sbp> c) one of the many over ways of dealing with the problem that's been discussed in academic P2P literature in the past half decade or so
14:03:35 <sbp> er, other
14:04:08 <Arnia> * Arnia writes 'Metadata' on the list on the wall of things not to mention (its safer than the Book)
14:04:32 <sbp> there's no shame in being incompetent--it's part of the learning process. when I came to start work on P2P stuff, I didn't think about the problem at all; then it was explained to me and now I'm at this particular level; were I into it more, I'd be a lot more educated on the subject, so there's plenty more for us all to learn
14:05:29 <laplink> .w incompetent
14:05:32 <phenny> incompetent is defined as:-
14:05:35 <phenny> 1. someone who is not competent to take effective action
14:05:38 <phenny> 2. not qualified or suited for a purpose; "an incompetent secret service"; "the filming was hopeless incompetent"
14:05:42 <phenny> 3. showing lack of skill or aptitude; "a bungling workman"; "did a clumsy job"; "his fumbling attempt to put up a shelf" [...]
14:05:47 <sbp> I'm not sure what relation the word "subsolving" bears. the approach of putting arbitrary limits on the type of data entered, banning certain URIs as you proposed, is simply highly short of being anywhere near effective
14:06:09 <laplink> .w subsolve
14:06:12 <phenny> I couldn't find subsolve in WordNet.
14:06:17 <Arnia> .w sub
14:06:20 <phenny> sub is defined as:-
14:06:20 <sbp> O NOE, IT ARE NOT EVEN WORD!
14:06:23 <phenny> 1. a large sandwich made of a long crusty roll split lengthwise and filled with meats and cheese (and tomato and onion and lettuce and condiments); different names are used in different sections of the United States
14:06:27 <phenny> 2. a submersible warship usually armed with torpedoes
14:06:31 <phenny> 3. be a substitute; "The young teacher had to substitute for the sick colleague"; "The skim milk substitutes for cream--we are on a strict diet" [...]
14:06:38 <laplink> .g sobsolutal
14:06:38 <Arnia> .w solve
14:06:41 <sbp> ha, stoopid en-us wordnet
14:06:41 <phenny> sobsolutal: sorry, no results were found.
14:06:43 <phenny> solve is defined as:-
14:06:46 <GiovanniT> sbp: there is a profound difference between talking and doing stuff
14:06:46 <phenny> 1. find the solution to (a problem or question) or understand the meaning of; "did you solve the problem?"; "Work out your problems with the boss"; "this unpleasant situation isn't going to work itself out"; "did you get it?"; "Did you get my meaning?"; "He could not work the math problem"
14:06:50 <phenny> 2. find the solution; "solve an equation"; "solve for x"
14:06:54 <phenny> 3. settle, as of a debt; "clear a debt"; "solve an old debt" [...]
14:06:59 <GiovanniT> doing stuff mightin this case involves putting limits
14:07:21 <Arnia> So I deduce subsolve to mean 'a long crusty roll that settles debts'
14:07:25 <sbp> GiovanniT: which is why I've been implementing this stuff for the past N years, discussing all of the approaches as I've gone along, and coming to many various conclusions that enable people to not waste their implementation time if they only listen
14:07:38 <GiovanniT> that makes "the beauty of it all" less beuty for the higher accademic spheres but it can get common peopel rolling using sw tecnologies
14:08:07 <GiovanniT> although i am getting a ph.d in this and i am researcher in p2p among the other things i am aiming at rolling something out
14:08:41 <Arnia> I don't see any real need to reduce the expressiveness of RDF to mere metadata
14:09:10 <Arnia> What need do you see?
14:09:53 <GiovanniT> arnia: practical.. there isnt anything that you CANT do if you use a URI instead of a litteral (is it?) .. at the same time using a UIR is say.. 30 bytes on the average and you're just shipping that around. Its a practical need
14:10:07 <Arnia> * Arnia looks at Freenet for RDF graphs with some interest
14:10:50 <Arnia> GiovanniT: I don't see how its different, apart from requiring less look up time for the literals in graph case
14:10:51 <sbp> you can't make comments very easily...
14:11:26 <Arnia> If you have to go around resolving URIs and downloading information, well you've got to do even more information transfer
14:11:50 <Arnia> You could just specify that properties with their object as a literal should only be shipped on-demand
14:11:51 <GiovanniT> well if you're not itnerested in a comment that has been marked as "troll" by the trust system, why downloading it
14:12:02 <sbp> not to mention that you have to have the ability to publish to, and maintain on, the Web your information
14:12:52 <Arnia> I don't believe a p2p graph sharing process should be like rsync... it should be very much based on distributed queries and on-demand fetches IMO
14:13:02 <sbp> well it's stored in a P2P network. it's like not downloading mexican horse porn or something from a current network: your client says "hey, I don't trust this dude. I think it's horse porn again" and so you don't download it
14:13:31 <GiovanniT> arnia: i am in the rsync model now so to say.. but it allows you to sync just bout the stuff you're interested right now. Distributed queries cant work
14:13:44 <Arnia> GiovanniT: Why not?
14:13:45 <sbp> not to pick on mexican horse porn particularly. I'm sure that brazillian and spanish and english horse porn is just as downloadworthyless
14:14:09 <GiovanniT> it works wonders when you have a few educated users.. otherwise you can easily DOS any server query
14:14:32 <GiovanniT> give me a singer that sings this and does that and knows another singer that..
14:14:41 <GiovanniT> ah.. by the way.. spread it around to the whole 100k of us
14:15:01 <Arnia> GiovanniT: You don't need to spread to everyone, just on a trust-network basis
14:15:09 <sbp> data expands to fit the available storage space...
14:15:14 <Arnia> * Arnia doesn't believe in total correctness, just useful correctness
14:15:37 <laplink> ...plus a fixed 10% margin.
14:16:08 <sbp> actually, how is your system working? is it just storing the data that people insert locally, or does it distribute it between clients? if the latter, does it have redundancy? is it encrypted?
14:16:14 <sbp> 10% margin: heh, yeah
14:17:29 <GiovanniT> the redundancy is 100% .. you fetch the stuff you're interested into .. the whole "semantic web topic" as defined by some rudimental topic descriptor
14:17:41 <GiovanniT> since you have it locally then you can do all the querying you want
14:17:45 <GiovanniT> all the fancy interface you want
14:17:53 <GiovanniT> remote queries which are non trivial are banned
14:18:01 <sbp> well, I'm asking about data that you insert. if user X inserts data Y, where is data Y stored? on X's computer only?
14:18:06 <GiovanniT> so people can run it without being DOSsed
14:18:18 <GiovanniT> it starts to be stored on his computer
14:18:42 <sbp> and then?
14:18:44 <GiovanniT> after some time he will claim to the group to have some new info about that.. people will fetch ti to be able to use it locally and will replicate it by doing so
14:18:52 <Arnia> What about your system stops it being DOSed?
14:19:04 <sbp> okay, so as in the majority of P2P networks
14:19:28 <sbp> in that case, your storage space problem disappears
14:19:42 <GiovanniT> yes except this is for RDF
14:19:44 <laplink> It does?
14:19:59 <GiovanniT> well i say you actyually have a local storage problem in the long run
14:20:09 <sbp> laplink: well to some extent; there's still the query problem. if people want to insert 50GB of data, then let them: if they're storing it on their computer, they have to provide the space
14:20:21 <GiovanniT> but i want to get something rolling before wondering about the long run. There will be hacks allowing the long run
14:20:26 <sbp> and we know (coughgooglecough) that difficult search problems can be solved
14:21:14 <GiovanniT> sbp: not really.. if you insert 50gb of rdf in a group that you joi nhere the other will copy 50gb.. sad but true. they will download it off each other so the load can be shared but the current RAW model is like this
14:21:35 <sbp> okay. so in the RAW model you can DoS it
14:22:02 <GiovanniT> cant you flood with message any message board?
14:22:04 <GiovanniT> or any IRC board?
14:22:09 <GiovanniT> or any WIKIPEDIA?
14:22:19 <sbp> the difference there is that it can easily be maintained
14:22:21 <GiovanniT> of course you can.. so its the world. :-)
14:22:30 <sbp> with your system, the system itself is controlling the load balancing
14:22:39 <sbp> no, it's different. your system ain't the world
14:22:41 <sbp> :-)
14:22:52 <sbp> but it's no problem
14:22:59 <sbp> demo versions are just demo versions
14:23:22 <GiovanniT> yup. so help out with that uri resolver :-)
14:23:37 <sbp> right. which leads us back to our original question: what URI resolver?
14:23:48 <GiovanniT> i give you the use case
14:23:54 <sbp> okay
14:24:03 <GiovanniT> we're talkign bout beers (That's going to be the first "brainlet" created on top of dbin)
14:24:15 <sbp> whoo. beers is a good use case, agreed
14:24:24 <GiovanniT> you want to insert the name of a local beer.. you state it belongs to this kind its made with this ingradients
14:24:27 <GiovanniT> it costs this much
14:24:31 <GiovanniT> adn that is RDF..
14:24:34 <sbp> okay
14:24:38 <sbp> .g Beer Ontology
14:24:41 <phenny> Beer Ontology: http://www.cs.umd.edu/projects/plus/SHOE/onts/beer1.0.html
14:24:45 <GiovanniT> then you want to say "ooh bla bla bla" and put a picture of you gulping it
14:24:45 <sbp> I'd use that
14:24:51 <GiovanniT> yeah :-) we're using that already of course
14:25:05 <sbp> heh, heh. cool
14:26:18 <GiovanniT> the way it works you have uri:mylocalbeer that you dont want to resolve really ther esis no need.. but then you want to say urn:mylocalbeer->rdfs:comment->"bla bla bla bla"
14:26:44 <sbp> * sbp nods
14:26:52 <GiovanniT> and i say you cant do that if you do the algorithm wont ship it out. becouse "its data" .. according to the infamous being that created the shipping algorithm
14:27:24 <GiovanniT> the same one howeversuggest you "use a uri instead" .. so you could add your comment on your local board and put the uri of that one. That would do it
14:27:59 <sbp> I don't have a local board. I'm just a new Web user and I wanted to share this comment with a friend using your system
14:28:09 <GiovanniT> but more conveniently you press a button a nice "insert a comment" window pop up and dbin does tat for you.. crreates a URI and "puts it" ina a space that other "URI resolvers" in other installations can then access and show your comment when you're clicking on urn:mylocalbeer
14:28:21 <sbp> ah
14:28:34 <sbp> on which server is the information to be stored?
14:28:45 <d8uv> Hello!
14:28:47 <GiovanniT> that is what the "uri tool" should do :-)
14:28:52 <sbp> hey d8uv
14:28:54 <Arnia> Uhh... forgive me for being dense. Why is that any different to the other way of doing it?
14:28:55 <GiovanniT> hello d8uv :-)
14:29:18 <d8uv> How is #shwack?
14:29:33 <sbp> (Arnia's, incidentally, apparently attacking the point that I want to lead you to Socratically head on)
14:30:08 <Arnia> * Arnia hands sean some chocolate buttons
14:30:11 <sbp> well you're a part of #swhack, d8uv, so you' should be able to account for about a 30th of it
14:30:33 <GiovanniT> arnia: well .. i need an actual api
14:30:35 <sbp> thanks. I'm eating now but I'll save them for later
14:30:49 <GiovanniT> arnia: its not teaory here .. its a practical instance with "some" scalability
14:30:59 <GiovanniT> ideally something that interfaces with existing p2p would do it
14:31:10 <sbp> what, I think, Arnia means is that the information is now being stored on a central server right?
14:31:22 <sbp> so you could simply allow the literals to be stored and shunt them off to the central server
14:31:51 <sbp> (central server: the URI resolver server)
14:32:11 <laplink> .g Annotea
14:32:13 <phenny> Annotea: http://www.w3.org/2001/Annotea/
14:32:31 <GiovanniT> well .. i could allow them to be stored immediately and then process it later but
14:32:57 <Arnia> GiovanniT: The web does all this storage. Your system seems to need the web + lots of caching (either that or a more conservative link-forming mechanism betwe