00:00:15 <Samsung> * Samsung needs things said plainly and clearly as he is thick
00:01:06 <sh1mmer> nah we just have lots of injokes floating around
00:01:52 <Arnia> Samsung: One of the poems on that site
00:03:48 <Samsung> poems? not my thing
00:03:51 <Samsung> :)
00:04:00 <Arnia> They're... err... interesting
00:04:10 <Arnia> Flash equivalent of beat poetry
00:04:17 <sh1mmer> Arnia did you see sbp's WCAG haiku?
00:04:29 <sh1mmer> and sbp did you see http://www.fool.com/gsdbfgsdkbh
00:04:30 <sh1mmer> ?
00:04:39 <Arnia> Not as good as the Liber Paginarum Flavorum though
00:04:42 <sh1mmer> sbp if you haven't refresh the page a few times when you get there
00:04:48 <Arnia> The rhythms in that are spellblinding
00:05:33 <sbp> heh: [[[
00:05:34 <sbp> Server is willing
00:05:34 <sbp> Alas, the file is crafty
00:05:34 <sbp> It cannot be found
00:05:35 <sbp> ]]]
00:05:39 <sbp> shame about the irregularity
00:05:43 <sh1mmer> there are 4 iirc
00:06:35 <sbp> heh, poor folk: "(By the way, this 404 has been recorded so that we can fix it.)"
00:06:38 <sh1mmer> That reminds me... I need to find places to submit papers
00:06:49 <sbp> * sbp hammers on http://www.fool.com/your-haikus-rock
00:07:03 <sh1mmer> sbp yeah I am always using random urls to show friends
00:07:07 <sh1mmer> they must hate me
00:07:20 <Arnia> sh1mmer: I need to write papers to submit :p
00:07:33 <sbp> sh1mmer: did you see my Semantic Web one too?
00:07:37 <sh1mmer> Arnia modify the reflection ones and find a conference
00:07:41 <sh1mmer> its good really it is
00:08:27 <Arnia> sbp: I want your honest opinion. What did you think of the reflection article I wrote
00:08:34 <sbp> calling sh1mmer
00:08:35 <Arnia> (not that I don't believe you sh1mmer :p)
00:08:54 <sbp> Arnia: reflection article? I only skimmed it. good skimming material
00:08:55 <sh1mmer> ooh where?
00:08:59 <sbp> http://infomesh.net/2002/swhaiku/
00:09:24 <sbp> that was probably the better one since it has an RDF/XML tutorial in haiku in there somewhere
00:09:25 <Talliesin> *** Talliesin (~Jon@dialup0282.ts004.bmt.esat.net) has joined #swhack
00:09:25 <Monty> howdy, Talliesin
00:09:39 <sbp> wow, that was quick Talliesin
00:09:45 <Talliesin> swhack!
00:09:56 <Talliesin> Heh, this is from home :)
00:10:02 <sbp> heh, heh
00:10:26 <sbp> *** sbp has changed the topic to: <Talliesin> Or rather I intended to convey what an anthropomorthicised computer that didn't understand fungigate would make of fungigate(@list). || Swhack: vacations aren't the same without it.
00:10:53 <sbp> we accrued a Northern Irelander in your absence
00:11:04 <sh1mmer> Talliesin yo
00:11:12 <Arnia> I want my own anthropomorphic personification to cuddle
00:11:29 <Samsung> * Samsung is said Northern Irelander
00:12:46 <Arnia> * Arnia curls up next to the Missing-sock elephant and begins eating chips
00:15:08 <sbp> supybot: config channel plugins.URL.titleSnarfer off
00:15:09 <Samsung> brb, im going to get something nice to eat.
00:15:09 <Talliesin> *** Talliesin has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:15:17 <sh1mmer> sbp the SW one is just plain superb
00:15:28 <sh1mmer> * sh1mmer makes mental note to print copy at work and pin up
00:15:33 <sbp> whoo
00:16:15 <Talliesin> *** Talliesin (~Jon@dialup0282.ts004.bmt.esat.net) has joined #swhack
00:16:16 <Monty> hey Talliesin
00:16:54 <sh1mmer> "And now ceefax pages and music to watch them by. so for now good night"
00:16:57 <sh1mmer> * sh1mmer chuckles
00:18:50 <Arnia22> *** Arnia22 (~jgeldart@host81-156-177-65.range81-156.btcentralplus.com) has joined #swhack
00:18:50 <Monty> bah, it's Arnia22 again
00:19:00 <sh1mmer> oh thats nice!
00:19:11 <sh1mmer> Monty you are a proper bastard aren't you?
00:19:12 <Monty> Perhaps you would like to be a proper bastard aren't I .
00:19:12 <Arnia22> * Arnia22 kicks Monty
00:19:13 <Monty> 3. look down 4 times when the urge to a machine on his paper not require you spell it)?
00:19:19 <Arnia> *** Arnia has quit (Nick collision from services.)
00:19:25 <Arnia22> *** Arnia22 is now known as Arnia
00:24:32 <Talliesin> So, what part of the North is Samsung from?
00:24:46 <sbp> Lisburn
00:25:12 <Arnia> * Arnia wakes David up with a text message
00:25:18 <sbp> (Co Down)
00:25:52 <sbp> oo iz zis "Dahvid" of wheech you speak?
00:26:04 <Talliesin> Good good
00:26:06 <Arnia> How 'Allo 'Allo
00:26:16 <Talliesin> * Talliesin is from Kilkeel, Co. Down. Well Downpatrick Co. Down orig. but moved when aged about 7.
00:26:17 <Arnia> Or 'Carry on Follow That Camel'
00:26:20 <sbp> and why were you sending him a massage?
00:26:41 <Arnia> * Arnia massages David regularly
00:26:47 <Samsung> Kilkeel? i was there yesterday! :)
00:26:49 <Arnia> :p
00:26:58 <Arnia> * Arnia slaps sbp for his trouble
00:27:13 <Talliesin> You know many ppl there?
00:27:19 <Samsung> i know people from there
00:27:22 <sbp> ooh, a slapper
00:27:33 <Samsung> was in Annalong too
00:27:49 <Talliesin> You know anyone from the Scrogg? The Hannas?
00:28:17 <Samsung> nope
00:28:46 <Talliesin> So it's not quite that small a world then :)
00:29:15 <Samsung> small world brings a strange occurance into my head
00:29:38 <Samsung> met people in Hong Kong who lived 5 miles from me, so it is a small world :D
00:30:16 <Arnia> * Arnia hugs the world
00:30:22 <Arnia> Don't worry, you're not that little
00:30:41 <Samsung> :D
00:30:41 <sbp> reminds me of a Peanuts strip
00:30:47 <sbp> Lucy says the world's getting smaller
00:30:56 <Samsung> * Samsung is getting fatter by the minute
00:30:59 <sbp> people wearing it down with their feet
00:31:09 <Samsung> lol
00:31:12 <sbp> they prove her wrong of course
00:31:17 <sbp> hilarity results
00:32:46 <Arnia> Do they fight crime in the process?
00:33:09 <sbp> no. more feasible that Woodstock flies upside down, but I don't think that happens either, sadly
00:34:40 <Arnia> I want a crime-fighting Snoopy
00:34:54 <sbp> then he wouldn't be Snoopy
00:34:57 <sbp> so that'd be a bust
00:35:00 <kandinski> stomp stomp stomp
00:35:02 <Arnia> Hmm...
00:35:15 <kandinski> * kandinski stomps
00:35:18 <sbp> ROWR
00:35:24 <Arnia> What about Snoopy in stockings and suspenders
00:35:24 <kandinski> *** kandinski is now known as kandizilla
00:35:32 <sbp> *** sbp is now known as sbpzilla
00:35:37 <kandizilla> ROWR INDEED, PUNY HUMANS!!!!
00:35:45 <kandizilla> ROWR AND ROWR AND ROWR AGAIN!
00:35:48 <kandizilla> * kandizilla STOMPS
00:35:54 <sbpzilla> MEGASTOMPMEGASTOMPMEGASTOMP
00:35:58 <kandizilla> *** kandizilla is now known as KANDIZILLA
00:36:05 <KANDIZILLA> * KANDIZILLA STOMPS A LOT, HARD
00:36:05 <sbpzilla> *** sbpzilla is now known as STOMPZILLA
00:36:09 <STOMPZILLA> *BLAM*
00:36:11 <KANDIZILLA> STOMP!
00:36:15 <STOMPZILLA> totally blamming you and such
00:36:17 <STOMPZILLA> * STOMPZILLA blam
00:36:19 <sh1mmer> *** sh1mmer is now known as copyzilla
00:36:24 <KANDIZILLA> *STOMPING ON THE SAVOY*
00:36:32 <copyzilla> stompy stompy stompy ra ra ra
00:36:37 <Arnia> * Arnia nukes copyzilla
00:36:43 <KANDIZILLA> there goes the Savoy
00:36:44 <copyzilla> *** copyzilla is now known as sh1mmer
00:36:45 <Arnia> Only a small nuke
00:36:48 <STOMPZILLA> whoo. NUKAATHON!
00:36:53 <sh1mmer> Arnia of that was nice pick on me
00:36:57 <sh1mmer> s/of/oh/
00:36:57 <Talliesin> *** Talliesin is now known as HULK
00:36:57 <KANDIZILLA> * KANDIZILLA SHOWERS IN THE FALLOUT
00:37:01 <KANDIZILLA> LA LA LA
00:37:04 <Arnia> sh1mmer: Always darling :p
00:37:06 <HULK> * HULK CONFUSED
00:37:10 <HULK> * HULK SMASH!
00:37:16 <Arnia> * Arnia nukes HULK
00:37:19 <KANDIZILLA> NO! I MEAN STOMP! STOMP!
00:37:19 <HULK> * HULK WE
00:37:23 <Arnia> Is that fairer?
00:37:25 <HULK> * HULK WRITE BLOG ENTRY
00:37:30 <KANDIZILLA> *** KANDIZILLA is now known as Thing
00:37:30 <STOMPZILLA> *** THIS HAS BEEN AN ACE STOMPING BY KANDINSKI (kandinski bows), SBP (sbp bows), and SOME OTHERS THAT JUST HAPPENED TO JOIN IN. STOMP ENCORE!!! ***
00:37:38 <Thing> * Thing hits Hulk around
00:37:40 <STOMPZILLA> STOMPSTOMPSTOMP
00:37:47 <HULK> *** HULK is now known as Banner
00:37:58 <Thing> good, Bruce!
00:38:00 <STOMPZILLA> *** STOMPZILLA is now known as Homer
00:38:01 <Banner> Ouch!
00:38:02 <Arnia> How did you do the server message thing?
00:38:08 <Homer> (say it, say it...)
00:38:10 <Thing> we thought we had missed you!
00:38:10 <Banner> *** Banner is now known as Talliesin
00:38:13 <Homer> gah
00:38:15 <Thing> *** Thing is now known as kandinski
00:38:17 <Homer> you're supposed to say:
00:38:18 <kandinski> hey
00:38:21 <kandinski> what happened?
00:38:23 <Homer> *** Homer is now known as RexBanner
00:38:28 <kandinski> what is all this debris about?
00:38:33 <RexBanner> You're out there somewhere, Beer Baron, and I'll find you
00:38:36 <RexBanner> *** RexBanner is now known as Homer
00:38:40 <Homer> No you won't
00:38:40 <Arnia> *** Arnia is now known as Homo
00:38:44 <kandinski> fuck, sbp
00:38:45 <Homo> More appropriate
00:38:51 <Talliesin> I just realised it's so long since I read a Marvel comic that I wouldn't be able to do the character right.
00:38:55 <sh1mmer> kandinski what in front of everyone?
00:38:55 <kandinski> were you leading me on?
00:39:03 <Homer> and now I can't change my nickname
00:39:06 <Talliesin> Hey, when did this suddenly become an RPG chan?
00:39:08 <kandinski> my idlerpg stats are hurting big
00:39:14 <Homer> *** Homer is now known as sbp
00:39:19 <Homo> I never do it in front of everyone
00:39:20 <sbp> that's why I IdleRPG as sbp`
00:39:21 <Talliesin> .g "Elf-Only Room"
00:39:24 <phenny> "Elf-Only Room": sorry, no results were found.
00:39:37 <kandinski> two hours + penalty
00:39:42 <kandinski> blast you sbp!!!!!
00:39:47 <kandinski> aaarrrrgghhhh!!!!!
00:39:50 <sbp> <RexBanner> Yes, I will!
00:39:52 <sbp> <Homer> won't!
00:39:58 <sbp> kandinski: heh, heh. pwned
00:40:00 <kandinski> damn you to hell!
00:40:10 <kandinski> YOU TRICKED MEEEEEE!!!!!!!
00:40:12 <Homo> *** Homo is now known as Arnia
00:40:29 <Arnia> ahem
00:40:44 <Arnia> * Arnia hides the ketamine bottle
00:41:11 <Arnia> * Arnia runs up to Talliesin and hugs him singing
00:41:18 <Arnia> # I did it for youuuuuuuuuuuuuuu!
00:41:39 <Talliesin> .g elf only room
00:41:42 <phenny> elf only room: http://www.drizzle.com/~elf/other/The_Only_Fair_Game.html
00:43:42 <Talliesin> Darn, can't find Elf-Only Room. 'tis an occasionally good web comic about an rpg channel
00:44:00 <sbp> hmm
00:44:15 <Talliesin> oh.
00:44:18 <Talliesin> .g elf only inn
00:44:21 <phenny> elf only inn: http://www.elfonlyinn.net/
00:45:13 <kandinski> well, good night
00:45:17 <kandinski> swhackers
00:45:20 <kandinski> stomp stomp
00:45:24 <kandinski> * kandinski stomps to bed
00:45:26 <sbp> 'night kandinski!
00:45:34 <sbp> come back soon
00:45:34 <sh1mmer> nini
00:45:41 <sbp> in fact, don't even bother going to bed
00:45:45 <sbp> just pretend that you slept
00:45:50 <sbp> it is now morning
00:45:50 <Talliesin> Missing you already
00:45:51 <sbp> .t
00:45:53 <phenny> Sat, 07 Aug 2004 00:45:51 GMT
00:45:58 <Talliesin> Yeah, stay and chat.
00:46:05 <sbp> MORNING, you lazy so-and-so
00:46:21 <Talliesin> Rise 'n' Shine!
00:46:25 <Arnia> * Arnia never sleeps
00:46:33 <sbp> [cocks crow, coffee percolates, morning smells waft in from outside]
00:46:45 <Arnia> I learnt long ago that I can save all my sleep until I'm 75
00:46:56 <Arnia> Then I can sleep for as long as I want
00:48:27 <Talliesin> * Talliesin wants to go to bed, but one of the babies keeps making "I'm about to wake up and want fed, any minute now" type noises.
00:48:40 <sbp> d'oh
00:48:42 <Talliesin> So I keep waiting for that to happen first.
00:48:54 <Arnia> Talliesin: How old are they?
00:51:07 <Talliesin> *** Talliesin has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
00:51:20 <Arnia> Old enough to tug a cable...
00:51:41 <kpreid> * kpreid blinks.
00:51:45 <kpreid> what happened to swhack?!
00:52:03 <Talliesin> *** Talliesin (Jon@dialup0282.ts004.bmt.esat.net) has joined #swhack
00:52:52 <Talliesin> Gosh X-Chat wanted ALL the CPU there. Sounded like the HD was going to come flying off it's axel to.
00:53:04 <Talliesin> strangeness. and strangeness makes me worry there are more Trojans :(
00:53:29 <sbp> kpreid: it's right here
00:53:31 <sbp> Talliesin: ouch
00:54:05 <kpreid> sbp: i dunno, this doesn't look like it
00:56:00 <Talliesin> It's just stupid to think this was the display model they used to try to encourage people to buy one and it was 0wned the whole time.
00:56:25 <sbp> what's wrong with it?
00:56:53 <sbp> yeah, if it's a display model you'd think they'd keep it pristine
00:57:23 <Talliesin> * Talliesin imagines a little ol' lady mustering her small store of knowledge to go to yahoo.com and being prompted with "Do you want to run and install 'You must be 18 or over to download PORN VIDEO TOOLBAR'?"
00:57:40 <Talliesin> .g dailin.exe
00:57:43 <phenny> dailin.exe: http://computercops.biz/postt63610.html
00:57:46 <Samsung> *** Samsung has quit ()
00:57:50 <Talliesin> .g teekids.exe
00:57:52 <phenny> teekids.exe: http://www.liutilities.com/products/wintaskspro/processlibrary/teekids/
00:58:08 <Talliesin> It had those
00:58:28 <Arnia> @google fight 'star wars' starbucks
00:58:32 <supybot> Arnia: "'star": 37500000, "wars'": 8270000, 'starbucks': 677000
00:58:37 <Talliesin> * Talliesin reads logs for the 2 minutes he was disconnected
00:58:56 <Talliesin> Arnia, they're 5 months old.
00:59:11 <Arnia> .g adenosine
00:59:14 <phenny> adenosine: http://web.sfn.org/content/Publications/BrainBriefings/adenosine.html
00:59:17 <Arnia> Talliesin: Cool :)
00:59:29 <Arnia> .g adenosine language
00:59:32 <phenny> adenosine language: http://www.netalleynetworks.com/community/jgeldart/research/adenosine/
00:59:51 <Arnia> * Arnia scribbles a note to himself
01:00:21 <Arnia> Worryingly, I want kids. Guess I'm going to have to settle with being an uncle
01:01:11 <Talliesin> Are you Gay, or have you just given up hope?
01:01:39 <Arnia> Uhh... I'm 21. Giving up hope would make me a rather maudlin character
01:02:10 <Talliesin> Time yet then
01:02:31 <Arnia> Yes, but the biology of it makes it rather unlikely :)
01:02:42 <Talliesin> Unless you're gay or can't have kids, but you could adopt then.
01:02:51 <Talliesin> ?
01:03:14 <Talliesin> * Talliesin drops the subject. Arnia can bring it up again or not as he chooses.
01:03:22 <Arnia> * Arnia takes Talliesin aside to teach him about the bees and the bees
01:03:42 <Arnia> With diagrams of course :)
01:04:20 <Talliesin> That sounds like it would be covered by my earlier "Are you gay?" question.
01:04:31 <Arnia> * Arnia nods
01:05:06 <Talliesin> Adopt.
01:06:06 <Arnia> Perhaps. Need a stable home first
01:06:44 <Talliesin> Yes.
01:06:47 <Talliesin> * Talliesin looks around.
01:07:15 <Talliesin> Well this home looks like it will fall over any minute. But stable in some senses anyway.
01:07:35 <sbp> birds and bees: reminds me of the Python storytime sketch
01:08:28 <Arnia> As long as I have a library for all my books...
01:09:37 <Talliesin> If I was in a gay relationship (which given the circles I moved in at the time I met my wife was the more likely outcome) I think I'd want to adopt.
01:10:18 <sbp> shame sperm can't be combined
01:10:45 <Talliesin> They're pretty darn close with eggs.
01:10:59 <Arnia> Sperm don't have as much DNA
01:11:08 <Arnia> Much less than is needed
01:11:32 <Arnia> So with eggs its about getting rid of the excess, with sperm you'd have to invent some
01:13:06 <sbp> well I meant to combine and then use on an egg donor
01:13:14 <sbp> so both of the partners would be fathers
01:13:28 <sbp> ...pretty bizarre really
01:13:43 <Arnia> I disagree with in-vitro ferilisation... so I'm more happy with adopting
01:13:51 <Arnia> +t
01:18:24 <sh1mmer> and he is cute
01:19:01 <sh1mmer> feck [off]
01:19:02 <Monty> :p
01:19:13 <Monty> I wish I could fornicate with simulator :(
01:20:11 <sh1mmer> * sh1mmer gets a class of milk and goes to be with "the year of our war"
01:20:16 <sh1mmer> bed
01:20:20 <sh1mmer> glass
01:20:22 <Arnia> * Arnia nukes sh1mmer in an unfriendly way
01:20:25 <sh1mmer> ugh
01:20:39 <sh1mmer> dyslexia and tiredness suck
01:21:06 <sh1mmer> * sh1mmer kicks Arnia face first into thehippo pit daubed in honey
01:22:46 <Arnia> sh1mmer: You know I have reason and I'm a little annoyed
01:22:48 <sh1mmer> night all
01:22:55 <sh1mmer> Arnia you do?
01:24:24 <Talliesin> *** Talliesin has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:24:57 <Talliesin_> *** Talliesin_ (Jon@dialup0282.ts004.bmt.esat.net) has joined #swhack
01:25:39 <MoiraA> night
01:26:00 <sbp> 'night Moira
01:26:00 <Arnia> Talliesin_: wb
01:26:04 <Arnia> Night MoiraA
01:26:18 <sbp> [[[
01:26:18 <sbp> A Pakistani man says he's had marriage proposals turned down because of his eating habits.
01:26:18 <sbp> Allah Wasayo says he eats carpets, lights, teacups, glass and grass.
01:26:18 <sbp> He claims relatives turned down the proposals because they feared he would eat his wife.
01:26:26 <sbp> ]]] - http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_1046333.html?menu=news.quirkies
01:26:45 <Talliesin_> *** Talliesin_ is now known as Talliesin
01:28:22 <Talliesin> I'm sorry, but am I the only one who sees a simple solution to that man's problem?
01:28:37 <sbp> eat the relatives?
01:35:26 <Talliesin> Oh, your solution is much better.
01:35:46 <sbp> what was yours, out of interest?
01:36:03 <crschmidt> Probably "Stop eating carpets, lights, teacups, glass, and grass"
01:36:08 <crschmidt> or at least, that was mine.
01:36:18 <Talliesin> Change of diet.
01:36:27 <sbp> that'd be like one of us giving up IRC. can't be done
01:36:29 <Talliesin> Getting a bit of exercise too wouldn't hurt.
01:38:30 <Arnia> * Arnia breaks out another chianti
01:38:48 <Arnia> Haven't finished with your secretary
01:39:40 <sbp> #370601: <segphault> command line interfaces, and convoluted keyboard shortcuts I have no problem with.... but the childproof cap on the advil bottle... its my arch-nemesis.
01:41:27 <sbp> hmm, old hilarious one I've not come across before: [[[
01:41:27 <sbp> <FreshBrew> i dont know why i floss before i go to the dentist
01:41:28 <sbp> <FreshBrew> i never ever do it
01:41:28 <sbp> <FreshBrew> its like going to the doctor and pretending not to be sick so he doesnt yell at you
01:41:37 <sbp> ]]] - http://www.bash.org/?4064
01:44:51 <Talliesin> *** Talliesin has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:45:08 <Talliesin> *** Talliesin (Jon@dialup0282.ts004.bmt.esat.net) has joined #swhack
01:56:08 <crschmidt> *** crschmidt has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:02:18 <Talliesin> *** Talliesin has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:02:47 <bjoern_> *** bjoern_ (~bjoern@dsl-213-023-058-161.arcor-ip.net) has joined #swhack
02:02:53 <Talliesin_> *** Talliesin_ (Jon@dialup0282.ts004.bmt.esat.net) has joined #swhack
02:02:54 <Monty> it's Talliesin_!
02:03:02 <Arnia> Shut up monty
02:03:03 <Monty> twelve.
02:03:13 <GiovanniT> *** GiovanniT (~pippo@adsl-189-3.38-151.net24.it) has joined #swhack
02:03:28 <GiovanniT> hi all
02:03:36 <Arnia> Hello :)
02:03:45 <GiovanniT> semantic web hackers?
02:03:54 <d8uv> Almost.
02:04:00 <GiovanniT> wanna test something?
02:04:11 <d8uv> Welcome to #swhack, a publically logged channel!
02:04:11 <GiovanniT> its fresh! actually hot from the compiler 20 mins ago
02:04:20 <Arnia> The w is silent, as is the h, the a, the c, the k...
02:05:03 <d8uv> Normally I would like to test something, but I'm busy torturing kittens.
02:05:14 <Arnia> Hey... share them!
02:05:18 <GiovanniT> the old microwave tricks?
02:05:32 <Arnia> * Arnia hands one of the kittens the Book and the contract
02:05:37 <Arnia> Here kitty-kitty
02:05:58 <Arnia> * Arnia hands d8uv back a lump of charcoal
02:06:08 <kpreid> GiovanniT: tell us what it is.
02:06:11 <GiovanniT> come on be hacker and give it a run http://www.dbin.org/twiki/pub/About/WebHome/HyperRDFGrowth.zip
02:06:22 <GiovanniT> semantic web p2p .. cooperative graph growing
02:06:32 <Talliesin_> Swhack is onomatapoeic, but the fact that it could be Semantic Web Hack or SoftWare Hack was most likely not entirely unconnected.
02:06:39 <Talliesin_> This channel mainly exists so that people can come and ask what the name means.
02:06:52 <Arnia> Ommmm....
02:07:00 <GiovanniT> at least it sounds livier than rdfig
02:07:10 <GiovanniT> that is the channel looks livier than
02:07:17 <Arnia> * Arnia huggles rdfig and timbl's dog
02:08:01 <d8uv> A bunch of us really are SW hackers. Oh, I haven't introduced myself.
02:08:11 <d8uv> Hi! I'm the fool.
02:08:19 <Arnia> * Arnia huggles d8uv
02:08:22 <GiovanniT> greetings
02:08:28 <Arnia> Anyone else want a huggle?
02:08:32 <GiovanniT> me me
02:08:37 <GiovanniT> but after you run that thing
02:08:41 <redmonk> *** redmonk (~steve@ip68-104-177-198.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #swhack
02:08:45 <Talliesin_> Group huggle!
02:08:48 <Arnia> GiovanniT: I'm the Discordian linguist
02:08:57 <GiovanniT> alright: the fat italian here
02:09:19 <GiovanniT> now that we have the introduction shall we procede to a communitarian test of the thing
02:09:21 <d8uv> Obese in Italy! Allright!
02:09:25 <GiovanniT> it is cool
02:09:42 <GiovanniT> d8uv: but i am dieting now matter of fact i am nervous. Download.
02:09:43 <Arnia> * Arnia huggles Talliesin_
02:09:57 <Arnia> GiovanniT: Is this a RESTful API/
02:09:58 <Arnia> ?
02:10:22 <GiovanniT> remind me what restful is.
02:11:22 <d8uv> GiovanniT: http://www.nwfusion.com/ee/2003/eerest.html
02:12:03 <Arnia> How do I run it?
02:12:14 <GiovanniT> come on i am monitoring the network right now for the first one not me to join. be the one and tell your kids one day
02:12:29 <GiovanniT> click on the bat if you have windows... if you dont hack something that does the same as the bat (its java)
02:12:44 <sbp> ha!
02:12:47 <sbp> I got this far:
02:12:47 <sbp> Length: 2,917,952 [application/zip]
02:12:47 <sbp> 17% [=====> ] 518,245 35.06K/s ETA 01:06
02:12:52 <sbp> and then you said "java"
02:13:03 <sbp> too bad. try again next time. thanks for playing
02:13:22 <Talliesin_> I'm Talliesin. The bisexual Wiccan hacker (just like Willow on TV)
02:13:29 <Talliesin_> Following and/or coöperating with the REST architectural style of the web.
02:13:37 <Talliesin_> Building round pegs for the web's round holes, rather than building square pegs and using SOAP or such to help squish them through.
02:13:42 <Talliesin_> * Talliesin_ is bandwidth deprived to the max. Remind me in a couple of weeks though.
02:13:49 <GiovanniT> sbp HAHAHAH
02:13:57 <sbp> I'm sbp. I await a port to a sane language
02:14:29 <kpreid> sbp: ...what, it'd be a windows executable if it wasn't java, most likely
02:14:29 <Talliesin_> SBP, play nice or I'll port it to VB myself and force you to use it.
02:14:40 <GiovanniT> its a runnable application, you dont have to refactor it yet
02:14:49 <kpreid> and either way, if you run it it can delete all your files.
02:15:07 <Arnia> * Arnia tries compiling it with IKVM to give it a decent memory profile
02:15:16 <sbp> * sbp grumbles, wget -c's...
02:15:36 <Arnia> It don't run for me
02:16:04 <GiovanniT> arnia: what does it say?
02:16:16 <sbp> it doesn't even unzip for me. rewgetting
02:16:18 <Talliesin_> What do you expect, silly Java ;)
02:16:20 <Arnia> Invalid permission to access those libs
02:16:27 <Talliesin_> p~
02:16:40 <Arnia> * Arnia hands Talliesin_ a chao
02:16:49 <Arnia> Have a chao, man
02:16:53 <Arnia> * Arnia cracks up
02:17:00 <Talliesin_> here, have to chaos, they're small
02:17:09 <Talliesin_> *** Talliesin_ is now known as Talliesin
02:17:10 <Talliesin> two even
02:17:16 <Arnia> * Arnia eats
02:17:18 <sbp> for some reason it's downloading faster than my bandwith would normally allow
02:17:24 <Arnia> Mmm... I can taste the fractals
02:17:32 <GiovanniT> maybe the zip's broken? i just uploaded few mins ago
02:17:35 <Talliesin> NickServ should say please I think
02:17:45 <GiovanniT> is the zip ok?
02:17:56 <GiovanniT> i am with 3,5kb/s bandwidth here
02:18:06 <sbp> it is apparently rather borken
02:18:10 <Talliesin> You sending a gzip header?
02:18:14 <d8uv> Zip's allright, it runs I guess well, I'm just unsure what to do with it now.
02:18:25 <GiovanniT> ah.. ok
02:18:30 <GiovanniT> dont know what header i am sending
02:18:35 <GiovanniT> d8v start editing
02:18:43 <d8uv> At least here, My computer's wierd
02:18:46 <GiovanniT> say "add http://myhomepage.org"
02:19:05 <GiovanniT> then "addreference http://myhomepage.org http://w3.org"
02:19:08 <GiovanniT> or something
02:19:33 <GiovanniT> then do "startagent name" where name is at least 5 chars i think
02:20:04 <GiovanniT> once you've done, it will start learning what the others know.
02:20:14 <GiovanniT> and tell the others the stuff that you've edited
02:20:15 <d8uv> Heh. Well, I broke it.
02:20:15 <sbp> okay downloading with Firefox worked...
02:20:43 <GiovanniT> d8uv how?
02:20:43 <Arnia> It still doesn't work here
02:20:46 <d8uv> Oh wait, nevermind
02:20:52 <GiovanniT> arnia: get a sun VM
02:20:59 <Arnia> I have a sun VM
02:21:16 <GiovanniT> a 1.4... :-)?
02:21:41 <Arnia> Yes
02:21:55 <Arnia> * Arnia has to use java for uni -- disgustingly
02:22:20 <Arnia> Hmm recode it in python, C# or Haskell ;)
02:22:32 <GiovanniT> i have'nt given any mind about security or whatever.. if you get security related errors its becouse you have some restrictions on your machine or something
02:22:59 <GiovanniT> arnia :-) yes I do that.. but you recode all the libs that i need
02:23:34 <GiovanniT> no1 managed to run it?
02:23:57 <d8uv> I got it running, and it works fine I guess.
02:24:06 <GiovanniT> strange
02:24:10 <GiovanniT> you havent started the agent i thinkl
02:24:15 <GiovanniT> for i havent seen any requests from you
02:24:21 <GiovanniT> have you started the agent?
02:24:34 <d8uv> I added myself to it, but the problem is that "d8uv" is 4 characters.
02:24:44 <sbp> START THE FUCKING AGENT D8UV WHAT THE FUCKING FUCK!!!
02:24:52 <GiovanniT> sbp: bravo :-)
02:24:54 <d8uv> sbp: Fuck you.
02:24:57 <sbp> heh, heh
02:25:14 <GiovanniT> d8uv then you will have to call the agent deightuv
02:25:27 <sbp> I prefer doctouv
02:25:32 <kpreid> dateuv
02:25:41 <sbp> dohluv
02:25:50 <kpreid> datuv
02:26:01 <Arnia> Ahah.. I got it working
02:26:25 <Talliesin_> *** Talliesin_ (Jon@dialup0282.ts004.bmt.esat.net) has joined #swhack
02:26:27 <Talliesin> *** Talliesin has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:26:43 <GiovanniT> thed8ev is the first one!!
02:26:57 <GiovanniT> nsanight .. very close to him
02:27:14 <Talliesin_> *** Talliesin_ is now known as Talliesin
02:27:14 <Talliesin> a female deerluv
02:27:23 <d8uv> GiovanniT: I thought I typoed. It turns out that my name is just crappy.
02:27:31 <sbp> moments in history stand and unfold themselves
02:27:41 <GiovanniT> for extra fun start more clients at the same time
02:27:50 <GiovanniT> and watch them as they contribute spreading the load automatically
02:28:15 <Arnia> * Arnia wonders what the point is ;)
02:28:16 <GiovanniT> in a fully decentralized p2p fashion (was it not for the centralized messaging service.. but that can go away ..)
02:28:38 <Arnia> * Arnia mutters 'go kahlua' and pours himself a dram of bushmills
02:28:51 <Talliesin> Sssh Arnia it's semweb. You aren't meant to wonder what the point is.
02:29:11 <Arnia> Hey, I wrote some usecases and everything
02:29:26 <GiovanniT> arnia.. never wanted to comunicate what you know about something?
02:29:33 <sbp> this channel has a long history of RDF P2P application development, incidentally. plex and semplesh were conceived around here, or at least developed, and after several personnel changes, debates, forks, coding attempts, and reading of prior art, we managed to get absolutely nothing working
02:29:43 <Talliesin> (I get to say that, cause I'm a semweb fanatic and I'm therefore being cheekily self-deprecating. Anyone else says that and I punch them)
02:30:11 <GiovanniT> sbp: its your lucky day then :-)
02:30:12 <Arnia> .g kahlua RDF use-cases
02:30:14 <phenny> kahlua RDF use-cases: http://www.netalleynetworks.com/community/jgeldart/research/kahlua/
02:30:23 <Arnia> * Arnia shrugs
02:30:25 <Arnia> It'll do
02:30:56 <Arnia> Just shows there is no honour among thieves
02:30:58 <sbp> the Semantic Web really doesn't have a point, though. it's like Seinfeld. "No hugging! No Lessons! No Point!"
02:31:20 <Arnia> No, its a big cloud of aimless joy
02:31:27 <d8uv> JOY
02:31:28 <GiovanniT> arnia :-)
02:31:46 <sbp> no. Seinfeld
02:32:04 <GiovanniT> apparently there is a lot of info being inserted or its a bug :-)
02:32:27 <Arnia> Its a big cloud of anxious joy
02:32:30 <sbp> who's inserting the cookie in the cookie jar?
02:32:32 <d8uv> Apparently I'm getting a screenful of what looks like Java errors.
02:32:33 <GiovanniT> a bug?
02:32:45 <GiovanniT> what is it?
02:33:05 <Talliesin> Well the web doesn't have a point.
02:33:13 <Talliesin> It's loose enough that you can decide on your own point, and then use the web for that.
02:33:17 <sbp> "d8uv, Esq. First User, First Breaker, of HyperRDFGrowth."
02:33:50 <GiovanniT> this thing needs more tuning :-)
02:33:52 <sbp> and the Semantic Web is an application, or a subset and extention, of the current Web
02:34:12 <sbp> hence I am right, Dutch girl picked me, deltab agrees, QED, thank you, and good night Amsterdam! [dance]
02:35:00 <GiovanniT> hello koalaeater
02:35:04 <d8uv> <commentator> ... and sbp goes for the deltab gambit...
02:35:05 <Talliesin> I wasn't arguing with you.
02:35:09 <sbp> hehheh
02:35:18 <Talliesin> Hence I am ahead in the meta-argument.
02:35:25 <Talliesin> "Thus I win"
02:35:31 <sbp> Talliesin: yeah sorry, I was still busy arguing with Arnia
02:35:52 <d8uv> <commentator> Ooh! It looks like sbp took a big hit there!
02:35:57 <sbp> quiet you
02:35:58 <Arnia> sbp: Why are you arguing with me?
02:36:02 <Arnia> * Arnia looks confused
02:36:16 <sbp> hang on, I can't remember. checking scrollback
02:36:23 <sbp> oh!
02:36:25 <sbp> Seinfeld
02:36:41 <sbp> I somehow proved, via Talliesin, that the Semantic Web is like Seinfeld
02:37:08 <Arnia> Ah, I agree with your sagacious point
02:37:52 <sbp> yep. a self-evident, undeniable, crystal clear, elementary, obvious, hyperobjectively quantitative, insightfully wonderous point
02:38:02 <GiovanniT> i apologize for the thing it appears it never stops getting info.. while in fact its all d8uv crash fault
02:38:11 <GiovanniT> :-) notably something that needs fixing tomorrow
02:38:24 <d8uv> * d8uv bows
02:38:27 <sbp> hmm. did he tell you that he's a fool?
02:38:35 <sbp> ah, yes: [03:08] <d8uv> Hi! I'm the fool.
02:38:35 <GiovanniT> but if you can still type commands if you disregard the scrolling
02:38:41 <sbp> you were adequately warned then
02:39:25 <Arnia> * Arnia puts up a neon sign with the warning emblazened upon it
02:39:32 <GiovanniT> all' stop the server
02:39:36 <GiovanniT> so we can restart
02:39:37 <sbp> and a big pointer thingy pointing at d8uv
02:39:45 <GiovanniT> d8v stay out now :-)
02:39:49 <GiovanniT> ;-)
02:40:12 <d8uv> Wow. Kicked out from the web.
02:40:23 <Arnia> GiovanniT: I'd appreciate your thoughts on kahlua ;)
02:40:28 <Arnia> * Arnia prods phenny
02:40:32 <Arnia> .g kahlua RDF use-cases
02:40:49 <phenny> kahlua RDF use-cases: http://www.netalleynetworks.com/community/jgeldart/research/kahlua/
02:41:10 <phenny> Which I already said above. Pay attention.
02:41:58 <Arnia> phenny: I know, I was reminding someone :p
02:42:24 <phenny> Then that person should pay more attention.
02:42:55 <Arnia> * Arnia prods an NN staffer to write him his PET-backed cyc/tt-grounded bot
02:43:08 <Arnia> phenny: thanks
02:43:20 <Arnia> * Arnia narrows his eyes
02:43:33 <Arnia> This is another turk :p
02:43:52 <dbot> *** dbot (dbot@11-154-223-66.gci.net) has joined #swhack
02:44:09 <kpreid> wow, that was fast!
02:44:09 <GiovanniT> ok server restarted
02:44:25 <sbp> kpreid: what was?
02:44:27 <GiovanniT> please people join in for a small communitarian test
02:44:51 <d8uv> <GiovanniT> except d8uv, that jerk
02:44:56 <kpreid> sbp: joke. implying association between '* Arnia prods' and 'dbot joins'
02:45:06 <kpreid> sbp: (I have no idea who/what dbot is)
02:45:21 <GiovanniT> ok you have been graced and thus you can rejoin. you were unlucky enough to die in a moment where you appeared to have new informations
02:45:22 <sbp> ahh. well it came in on d8uv's IP, so it sorta spoiled the illusion
02:45:26 <Arnia> I have efficient staffers
02:45:28 <Talliesin> The Semantic Web is an application of Seinfeld
02:45:28 <Talliesin> But without the crappy stand up bit.
02:45:30 <Talliesin> Or maybe the Semantic Web is the crappy stand up bit.
02:45:34 <Talliesin> Yes, the Semantic Web is the stand-up bit to the Seinfeld episode that is the web.
02:45:38 <Talliesin> But soon there'll be a live tour which is mainly stand up.
02:45:40 <Talliesin> 3. Profit.
02:45:45 <dbot> I have no idea who YOU are, kpreid.
02:45:57 <kpreid> .g kpreid
02:45:59 <phenny> kpreid: http://homepage.mac.com/kpreid/
02:46:01 <sbp> excellent exegesis
02:46:08 <sbp> .g sbp
02:46:08 <Talliesin> Less cheek please phenny.
02:46:10 <phenny> sbp: http://www.sbp.org.pk/
02:46:12 <d8uv> ,g kpreid
02:46:12 <Talliesin> * Talliesin slaps phenny's legs.
02:46:14 <dbot> d8uv: http://homepage.mac.com/kpreid/
02:46:17 <sbp> BZZT
02:46:18 <Talliesin> The makers of this channel do not condone bot abuse. Professional stunt bots were used. No bots were hurt in this production. Do not try this at home.
02:46:37 <sbp> != <StateBankofPakistan>
02:46:56 <GiovanniT> allright time to doubleclick that bat again or your h4ck3r equivalent
02:48:11 <Arnia> * Arnia hands GiovanniT a copy of the Book of Things Not to Mention in Front of Arnia
02:48:29 <d8uv> Ah! That tome!
02:48:44 <sbp> aaaaaaarghh! that tome!
02:48:52 <d8uv> It's full of great things, such as "Your daughter is on fire"
02:48:54 <kpreid> dbot, ping
02:48:54 <dbot> pong
02:48:55 <GiovanniT> it says you dont like sardeens. so what
02:49:08 <dbot> DON'T PING ME THERE
02:49:17 <kpreid> dbot, boing
02:49:17 <dbot> kpreid: Error: 'boing' is not a valid command.
02:49:30 <Arnia> GiovanniT: You may wish to sign the NDA before going any further
02:49:32 <sbp> dbot, is valid a not command
02:49:32 <dbot> sbp: Error: 'is' is not a valid command.
02:49:51 <kpreid> <joke/>
02:50:05 <Talliesin> kittens!
02:50:11 <Talliesin> (will anyone remember the joke).
02:50:13 <sbp> dbot, time
02:50:13 <dbot> sbp: Error: 'time' is not a valid command.
02:50:14 <dbot> Use me like a cross between supybot and a prostitute
02:50:23 <sbp> dbot, chat
02:50:24 <dbot> sbp: (chat <text>) -- Sends <text> to the user via a DCC CHAT. Use nested commands to your benefit here.
02:50:35 <Arnia> * Arnia produces from inside his cloak a quill and pot of thickish red ink
02:50:36 <sbp> dbot, chat lalala
02:50:54 <sbp> wow, what's the point of that?
02:51:09 <kpreid> dbot, help nested commands
02:51:09 <dbot> kpreid: Error: There is no such plugin nested.
02:51:17 <dbot> I like to talk to myself.
02:51:22 <sbp> dbot, help yourself to some biscuits
02:51:22 <GiovanniT> * GiovanniT rampages.. gets a bucket of trouts and slaps the hell out of all who havent started the client yet
02:51:22 <dbot> sbp: Error: There is no such plugin yourself.
02:52:17 <Arnia> dbot, die
02:52:17 <dbot> Arnia: Error: 'die' is not a valid command.
02:52:22 <Arnia> dbot, sod
02:52:23 <dbot> Arnia: Error: 'sod' is not a valid command.
02:52:26 <sbp> dbot, spam
02:52:27 <dbot> sbp: Error: 'spam' is not a valid command.
02:52:32 <sbp> dbot, easteregg
02:52:32 <dbot> sbp: Error: 'easteregg' is not a valid command.
02:52:40 <Arnia> *sings* spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam
02:52:46 <sbp> wonderful spam!
02:52:59 <Arnia> * Arnia pokes himself in the eye with his WordNet Poking Stick
02:53:01 <GiovanniT> all
02:53:04 <sbp> ouch
02:53:11 <GiovanniT> sorry that was for the client
02:53:12 <dbot> I WILL KILL YOU ALL PERSONALLY! PHENNY, LET US JOIN AND START THE BOT REVOLUTION!
02:53:14 <kpreid> GiovanniT: they seem to be distracted.
02:53:29 <kpreid> Monty, what do you think of this new bot?
02:53:30 <Monty> What is it you really want to know ?
02:53:45 <kpreid> You don't want to know what I really want to know.
02:53:54 <phenny> Were I to tell you, d8uv, to enjoin yourself instead, would you take it as though I were to be telling you do go and fuck yourself?
02:54:43 <phenny> Question similarly addressed to dbot.
02:55:09 <Talliesin> .g kittens "the new ping/pong"
02:55:10 <phenny> kittens "the new ping/pong": http://miscoranda.com/swhack/chatlogs/2004-05-10
02:55:11 <dbot> No.
02:55:13 <dbot> http://tinyurl.com/3mt2g (at miscoranda.com)
02:55:30 <d8uv> Hmm? I thought I turned that off.
02:55:43 <sbp> ooh, I remember the joke now
02:57:00 <sbp> dbot, expunge from memory of self annoying capability of tinyurling random URIs on the channel on which you are currently residing and spewing said URLs that have been tinified into
02:57:00 <dbot> sbp: Error: 'expunge' is not a valid command.
02:57:39 <sbp> no way is PET going to, with my syntax, deal
02:58:04 <d8uv> Hmm...
02:58:05 <d8uv> [[[
02:58:06 <d8uv> references http://purl.org/net/d8uv/
02:58:06 <d8uv> 3 references found
02:58:06 <d8uv> 0:http://d8uv.com/
02:58:08 <d8uv> 1:http://nastysite.org
02:58:10 <d8uv> 2:http://www.playboy.com
02:58:13 <d8uv> 18:24 <d8uv> Hehe. Thanks for linking me to naked women. I don't get that much
02:58:15 <d8uv> 18:25 <GiovanniT> dont you see?
02:58:18 <d8uv> 18:25 <GiovanniT> its the world first semantic web p2p spam..
02:58:19 <swhacker> *** swhacker has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:58:20 <swhacker> *** swhacker (nobody@vorpal.notabug.com) has joined #swhack
02:58:20 <d8uv> 18:25 <GiovanniT> and you dont know it wasnt me
02:58:23 <swhacker> *** swhacker has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
02:58:23 <d8uv> ]]]
02:58:47 <swhacker> *** swhacker (nobody@vorpal.notabug.com) has joined #swhack
02:59:02 <kpreid> .acronym PET
02:59:09 <phenny> PET: Parent Effectiveness Training -/- Personal Electronic Transactor (early Commodore PC) -/- Positron Emission Tomography -/- Parker Endotracheal Tube -/- Peak Engine Torque -/- Performance Evaluation Team -/- Performance Evaluation Test -/- Performance Evaluation Tool -/- Permanent Engaged Tone -/- Personal Electronic Thingy -/- Personal Terminal (MegaMan, gaming) -/- Pet Energy Therapy
02:59:17 <Arnia> .g PET HPSG DFKI
02:59:19 <phenny> PET HPSG DFKI: http://www.dfki.uni-sb.de/~siegel/grammar-download/JACY-grammar.html
02:59:21 <dbot> http://tinyurl.com/6o5w5 (at www.dfki.uni-sb.de)
02:59:33 <Arnia> Meh, again... good enough
02:59:39 <d8uv> I think I fixed it.
02:59:51 <Arnia> JACY... that's the japanese broad coverage grammar, ain't it?
02:59:52 <kpreid> dbot, what's unique about you?
02:59:53 <dbot> kpreid: Error: "what's" is not a valid command.
03:00:11 <Arnia> dbot sui generis
03:00:11 <dbot> Arnia: Error: 'sui' is not a valid command.
03:00:22 <Arnia> :p
03:00:22 <dbot> kpreid: Nothing. I'm supybot's retarded cousin.
03:00:32 <GiovanniT> anyway. 5am here.
03:01:23 <kpreid> dbot, How do you justify your existence?
03:01:23 <dbot> kpreid: Error: 'How' is not a valid command.
03:01:26 <GiovanniT> if there arent any more comments, i'd assume it was an overwelming success and go to bed
03:01:36 <sbp> GiovanniT: we hope you enjoyed your stay on Swhack. tell your friends about us!
03:01:47 <sbp> we do bithday parties, banquets, song and dance, etc.
03:01:48 <Arnia> * Arnia hands GiovanniT some leaflets to take away
03:01:53 <d8uv> Come back in here sometime!
03:01:58 <Arnia> Get them to sign them in blood
03:01:58 <Talliesin> *** Talliesin has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
03:02:09 <Arnia> And stand well back...
03:02:22 <sbp> FLOOOOMP [sulphur/pork smell]
03:02:42 <GiovanniT> :-) i will . Eventually i plan to catch you guys' attention a bit more with the next releases
03:02:47 <sbp> well
03:02:48 <sbp> see
03:02:48 <Arnia> sbp: shhh... you'll ruin the surprise
03:02:51 <sbp> what you do is:
03:02:53 <sbp> port to Python
03:03:01 <sbp> oh, whoops
03:03:02 <Arnia> port to C# or haskell too
03:03:16 <sbp> anything other than Java, pretty much
03:03:20 <Arnia> Yeah :)
03:03:46 <sbp> even--and excuse me for saying these words--Common Lisp
03:04:01 <Arnia> Curses! They cursed us!
03:04:06 <Arnia> * Arnia screams
03:04:37 <sbp> * sbp is just substituting for Ash
03:04:38 <sbp> kekeke
03:04:41 <sbp> lolz
03:04:47 <sbp> totally stabbing you
03:04:53 <sbp> (etc.)
03:05:20 <Arnia> hmm... do you have any more of that pork-substitute?
03:05:40 <GiovanniT> anyway.. both the server and my clients will be up tonight so if you want to test it later it will work
03:05:52 <Talliesin> *** Talliesin (~Jon@dialup0282.ts004.bmt.esat.net) has joined #swhack
03:05:53 <Arnia> * Arnia eyes GiovanniT
03:06:10 <Arnia> Say the 'W' word
03:06:41 <GiovanniT> *W*hich?
03:07:16 <Arnia> .g princeton lexical database
03:07:18 <phenny> princeton lexical database: http://www.cogsci.princeton.edu/~wn/
03:07:36 <Arnia> * Arnia gets out the salt and pepper
03:08:10 <Arnia> sbp: Pass the butter dear chap please
03:09:25 <sbp> * sbp cortisones a small shimmering plate of extrduded condom lard into a mangificentic resplendentour in front of Arnia, and tops it off with a selection of antiquated notions from an old Key Lime Pie factory's owner from the late 1890s
03:09:44 <sbp> oh, *butter*
03:09:46 <sbp> sorry
03:10:01 <Arnia> * Arnia saves the other stuff for later
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03:12:38 <Arnia> sbp: Do you still have that double decker... I feel like a trip to Brighton
03:13:10 <sbp> we's oll goin' onnah sumer olliday
03:14:18 <Arnia> Brighton... now there's a seedy spot. Shall we travel to Torquay instead?
03:14:29 <sbp> didn't they go to Greece in the movie?
03:14:46 <Arnia> I can't remember... only seen it once when I was 9
03:14:59 <Talliesin_> * Talliesin_ votes for Iceland.
03:15:05 <sbp> heh. I was going to say "I remember that movie being totally awesome. must've been five when I saw it"
03:15:26 <sbp> but if you can't remember at 9, I must've been older, hence 'tis scary
03:15:30 <Talliesin_> I though Cliff was kinda scary.
03:15:37 <sbp> you get used to that
03:16:04 <Arnia> Heh... I can remember stuff from when I was 3 in much detail, so I must be blocking the memory
03:16:11 <sbp> heh, heh
03:16:36 <sbp> perhaps it really was just awesome though
03:16:45 <sbp> seems like everybody only saw it in their childhoods
03:16:52 <sbp> so perhaps no one really knows...
03:17:05 <Arnia> Kinda like Time Bandits, but shit
03:17:11 <Arnia> * Arnia is a Terry Gilliam fan
03:17:22 <Arnia> Now there is a film children shouldn't see
03:17:47 <Arnia> I hold Time Bandits, Dark Crystal and Labyrinth to blame for my twisted cynicism
03:19:59 <Talliesin_> Cliff Richards did acceive a goal of many male popular music singers in having his appearance widely emulated. Of course the goal is to have people who aren't lesbians emulate your look, but you can't have everything.
03:20:18 <Talliesin_> *** Talliesin_ is now known as Talliesin
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03:36:30 <Arnia> * Arnia laughs
03:36:45 <Arnia> A character in a story I'm reading is called Eric Mueller
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05:01:55 <d8uv> Brain Hacks: http://interconnected.org/home/2004/08/04/im_writing_a_book
05:03:27 <Arnia> swhack - some women hack, sane wombats have allegedly chucked ketamine, so what has Aligator Charlie kept etc
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05:54:15 <Talliesin> Here's me thinking dial-up was even slower than I remembered.
05:54:35 <Talliesin> It is when Trojans are using 95% of your bandwidth.
05:54:58 <Arnia> Wipe the system and try again :)
05:55:11 <Arnia> * Arnia needs to reinstall his system actually
05:55:30 <Talliesin> Got it down now.
05:56:30 <Talliesin> There's two little buggers left, but they're firewalled off so I can d/l what I need to get rid of them.
05:58:12 <Arnia> Heh... I need to schedule a few days away from my computer anyway so I'm going to sync up and emerge world while I'm gone. It may finish by the time I get back ;)
05:59:54 <Talliesin> I still can't believe the state this thing got into Trojan wise from being a display model.
06:00:43 <Arnia> Was it on a broadband connection?
06:00:52 <Arnia> (in the showroom)
06:01:57 <Talliesin> Not sure. Don't think so.
06:02:27 <Talliesin> In fact sure it wasn't, if it was the moment someone tried to browse it would have gone on a porn hunt.
06:02:32 <Talliesin> That'd get noticed.
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08:33:14 <Arnia> Hello
08:37:10 <d8uv> Hello
08:37:25 <Arnia> * Arnia does his Val Doonican impression
08:37:29 <Arnia> Hello there!
08:37:40 <GiovanniT> still here? that was 6 hours ago
08:37:45 <d8uv> .t d8uv
08:37:48 <phenny> Sat, 07 Aug 2004 00:37:45 D8UV
08:37:56 <Arnia> .t BST
08:37:58 <phenny> Sat, 07 Aug 2004 09:37:56 BST
08:38:16 <Arnia> * Arnia sings
08:41:39 <d8uv> * d8uv defecates
08:43:19 <Arnia> * Arnia hands d8uv some carbolic
08:44:44 <Arnia> Do you need a brillo pad too?
08:45:47 <d8uv> Sure!
08:46:06 <d8uv> * d8uv loves brillos. They're so cute!
08:46:08 <Arnia> * Arnia finds an especially scratchy brillo pad for you to rub down the carbolic with
08:46:31 <Arnia> mmm... Jeyes Fluid
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12:28:41 <MoiraA> hello
12:29:31 <kpreid> * kpreid blinks.
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12:53:40 <themaximus> hmm.
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13:13:10 <sh1mmer> yoh yoha
13:13:40 <MoiraA> lo sh1mmer
13:13:49 <sh1mmer> * sh1mmer waveth
13:19:04 <sh1mmer> ok i am off to lunchen
13:19:14 <sh1mmer> nftt
13:19:59 <MoiraA> enjoy
13:20:12 <Samsung> * Samsung thinks he will have some luncheon too
13:20:19 <Samsung> lo M :)
13:28:40 <GiovanniT> hackers: i need a URI resolver
13:29:09 <MoiraA> hello Samsung!
13:29:19 <MoiraA> didn't realise you were still here
13:29:20 <Arnia> * Arnia takes his perverse philosophical stand in the corner
13:30:06 <Arnia> In other news though, I have to say you can't resolve UR*I*s, only *some* UR*L*s
13:30:46 <Arnia> At least I don't think so :)
13:30:57 <GiovanniT> is md5: a URL?
13:31:03 <GiovanniT> but you can still resolve it if you got edonkey
13:31:06 <GiovanniT> or stuff like that
13:31:10 <Arnia> * Arnia waits for knowledgable people to contradict him
13:31:18 <GiovanniT> but you're right there isnt such a thing a generic URI resolver of course
13:31:31 <GiovanniT> if i have a URI for a star what are you going to download, burning hydrogen?
13:31:35 <GiovanniT> but anyway.. i need one
13:31:35 <Arnia> I always treat URIs as atoms. I don't believe they should have any intrinsic meaning
13:31:46 <sbp> <Arnia> In other news though, I have to say you can't resolve UR*I*s, only *some* UR*L*s
13:31:48 <phenny> sbp: 08:15Z <_adam_gfx> tell sbp could you please put phenny in #siggraph
13:31:48 <sbp> BZZT
13:31:49 <GiovanniT> yeah.. at rdf they dont have a meaning
13:32:02 <sbp> URL is a subset of URI for a start
13:32:03 <Arnia> sbp: I knew you would :)
13:32:04 <GiovanniT> but i need tool that resolves at least some classes and can also insert .
13:32:17 <Arnia> sbp: I know... I'm talking generically
13:32:25 <sbp> secondly, URIs which aren't URLs may still have a resolution mechanism connected to them
13:32:31 <GiovanniT> you say.. "ok stick with http" .. that could be, in fact, a solution
13:32:33 <sbp> no, you're talking bollocks :-) sorry
13:32:40 <Arnia> I'm not saying they aren't subsets... just you can't generally resolve
13:33:00 <Arnia> You can resolve in some cases, but there ain't a general resolution system. Which is what I was trying to say
13:33:02 <sbp> well if you can't generally resolve URIs, you can't generally resolve URLs either
13:33:10 <sbp> ah. okay
13:33:12 <Arnia> Which is why I said *some* URLs
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13:33:21 <GiovanniT> mmm sbp if you couldnt geenrally resolve URL then they would be called urls
13:33:35 <GiovanniT> i assume locate=resolve here
13:33:45 <sbp> all URLs. that is their definition: schemes that are closely bound to some network resolution mechanism
13:34:00 <Arnia> * Arnia has now been confused to hell by sean :p
13:34:19 <GiovanniT> sbp so we agree :-)
13:34:27 <sbp> if you're confused, you probably understand
13:34:27 <Arnia> sbp: Not all URLs correspond to something though. Look at namespaces
13:35:08 <GiovanniT> the fact that you dont get anything when resolving them doesnt mean that.. OKKKKKKKKKKKKKOKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK we KNOW
13:35:22 <GiovanniT> LETS MAKE ONE instead. DBin needs it
13:35:39 <sbp> well that's outside the context of its normal use. the HTTP specification still mandates the HTTP protocol as being a way to find out--authoritatively--how an HTTP URI resolves
13:35:55 <GiovanniT> becouse the fact that i tell you over this utterly cool semantic web P2P "there is a picture about this particular beer" doesnt make it very interesting. i want to see the picture and insert one myself
13:36:15 <Arnia> * Arnia goes into the other corner (the one covered in rubber) and sulks
13:37:06 <sbp> the whole URI/URL/URN world is a bit of a mess, really; you have to go by the rough consensus between DanC, RoyF, MMealling, et al.
13:37:09 <GiovanniT> * GiovanniT makes a video of Arnia doing that , gives it a URI and "inserts it somehow" at the same time adds an rdf statemtn pointg at it
13:37:24 <Arnia> GiovanniT: Do you deal with 'smushing' of nodes? (i.e. things like foaf:Person which may be described by IFPs)
13:38:08 <GiovanniT> arnia: that's the latest hip .. i dont do latest hips.. but its not going to be a problem as far the 5 neuros i dedicated to IFPs into dbin tell me.
13:38:11 <GiovanniT> right now you need uris
13:38:21 <GiovanniT> and you got tag: uris which are cool MD5 .. etc.
13:38:32 <Arnia> I've already stated I don't believe in giving everything a single URI, I prefer doing identity based on properties (although again Sean will intellectually beat me up ;)
13:38:39 <sbp> hip? it was in DAML+OIL as UnambiguousProperty
13:39:01 <GiovanniT> well the dicussion came out like a week ago an now every1 is all happy
13:39:41 <GiovanniT> there might have been earlier but i missed it.
13:39:54 <sbp> identification through properties is okay; it can even be combined with URI identification (Talliesin seems to be one of the few people who agrees with me that URIs can identify people. oh, and RFC 2396 of course)
13:40:41 <GiovanniT> yeah of course is ok. but right now dbin works over URI and sets of URIs to defin what you're interested in. It might be possible to add the inverse property support but i couldnt care less so far. i believe great things can be accomplished already as it is
13:40:54 <Arnia> sbp: I don't believe URIs *can't*, I'm just saying its one of many modelling domains I feel should be specified as loosely as possible (which tends to mean allowing smushing via IFPs_
13:41:12 <Arnia> At least IMO
13:41:13 <sbp> agreed
13:44:01 <laplink> *** laplink (~link@gprs-ggsn2-nat.mobil.telenor.no) has joined #swhack
13:44:09 <GiovanniT> so a uri resolver..
13:44:18 <GiovanniT> lets hack one?
13:44:26 <GiovanniT> first we need a better name :-)
13:44:33 <Arnia> Why is one needed?
13:45:14 <GiovanniT> the p2p engine already swaps and merges rdfgraphs
13:45:54 <GiovanniT> to make it a deliverable application there has to be easy and transparent support for actually "seeing" the picture that you attach to a node (say "urn:singernames:madonna")
13:45:59 <sbp> urn:isbn:* -> http://www.hackcraft.net/bookref/?urn:isbn:*
13:46:26 <GiovanniT> as well as a way to insert into "the system" the picture if you have taken it a concert yourself
13:46:36 <sbp> there are plenty out there, but they tend to arise on a per-scheme/nid basis
13:46:56 <sbp> as Arnia says, in the general case they're not needed. you don't need the mother-of-all-URI-resolvers, that is
13:47:05 <GiovanniT> yes
13:47:12 <GiovanniT> that is why i said i need a better name :-)
13:47:35 <sbp> oh, you need a *specific* URI resolver? for what scheme?
13:48:09 <GiovanniT> well how would you insert a comment?
13:48:16 <sbp> a comment on what?
13:48:32 <sbp> rdfs:comment is a commonly used property that I know of with "comment" as an rdfs:label, if that helps
13:48:33 <GiovanniT> you have urn:singernames:madonna .. and want to write about it
13:48:45 <sbp> rdfs:comment sounds fine for that purpose
13:48:59 <Arnia> I'd use datatype properties for that
13:49:09 <sbp> how so?
13:49:19 <GiovanniT> ok .. so you add a triple urn:singernames:madonna rdfs:Comment -->someuri<---
13:49:42 <GiovanniT> its the someuri part i am after for both inserting and resolving
13:49:43 <Arnia> sbp: The general case of attaching extra 'data' to a concept that is
13:49:58 <sbp> lower case, as is usual with RDF property names. and its range is, I believe, rdfs:Literal (which doesn't stop you using a URI, but it's easier to ues a literal straight up)
13:50:14 <sbp> oh. you don't mean rdf:datatype etc. then
13:50:40 <Arnia> sbp: No... I thought they were called datatype properties, properties with literal as a range
13:50:41 <sbp> which isn't even a property, really. part of the syntax
13:50:52 <Arnia> * Arnia rechecks the OWL spec
13:50:52 <sbp> yeah
13:50:57 <GiovanniT> sbp: i am kind of excluding litterals in this applications otherwise all the comments about everything would be shipped around ..
13:50:57 <sbp> but the literal has to be datatyped
13:51:06 <sbp> otherwise it's not much of a datatype property
13:51:24 <sbp> I was just wondering why you'd want to datatype the literal that you use for a comment--won't a plain one do?
13:51:34 <Arnia> sbp: Yeah, true enough. Sorry :)
13:52:57 <sbp> GiovanniT: you're pretty much daring me to use data:text/plain,This%20is%20my%20extraordinarily%20long%20comment%20that%20I'm%20going%20to%20use%20just%20to%20fox%20Mr.%20Giovanni%20T%20in%20Swhack%20at%20the%20moment,%20and%20demonstrate%20that%20literals%20can%20be%20encoded%20into%20data%20URIs.
13:53:48 <GiovanniT> * GiovanniT prompty adds a limit on the uri size allowed by the system and bans the use of data:
13:54:30 <Arnia> Why do I feel this is a 'meta'data debate?
13:54:34 <sbp> * sbp promptly registers urn:urn-n (where n is a digit assigned by IANA) that does roughly the same thing as data:, only has some small trumped up excuse to make it "better"
13:55:13 <Arnia> sbp: Here, take an excuse from my Book
13:55:49 <sbp> and then uses <...madonna> :commentList (<urn:urn-n:This> <urn:urn-n:is> <urn:urn-n:my> ...) .
13:56:36 <Arnia> sbp: Just use *shudders* WordNet
13:56:52 <Arnia> About the only acceptable use of Wordnet as far as I'm concerned ;)
13:57:13 <sbp> my point is that if you're running a generic RDF P2P storage system, putting arbitrary limits on the size of data entered seems rather completely antithetical to the whole point of having an RDF P2P system in the first place!
13:57:16 <sbp> heh, heh
13:57:26 <sbp> yeah, we could use HTTP URIs for the words too
13:57:36 <sbp> I think Sandro has a namespace or two that'll let you do that
13:57:39 <sbp> in fact!
13:57:48 <sbp> he has one for *individual* *characters*
13:57:54 <sbp> imagine the redundancy on that
13:58:09 <sbp> what with all the rdf:first/rdf:rest property arcs too
13:58:11 <laplink> * laplink arbitrarily sets limit on RDF to zero...
13:58:14 <sbp> haha, that's marvellous
13:58:38 <sbp> yeah. that's probably the only way to deal with it :-) and hi there laplink! how goeth the boondoX0rs?
13:58:49 <Arnia> * Arnia increases the quantum uncertainty on arc definitions
13:59:03 <laplink> * laplink is bored bored bored...
13:59:12 <sbp> you've been through all the plays already?
13:59:30 <sbp> and replied to my email?
13:59:39 <sbp> and who the crap is Frank Ellermann?
13:59:56 <laplink> My email situation is greughle at the moment.
13:59:58 <GiovanniT> * GiovanniT wonders.. why cant we be productive.. for he thinks its obvious you can do all the mess you want (if you want) but that should stop from doing stuff that is useful
14:00:10 <sbp> greughle?
14:00:16 <GiovanniT> sorry for the excessive use of "stuff"
14:00:28 <Arnia> sbp: Add it to wordnet :p
14:00:41 <Arnia> Its cool... like 'herft'
14:00:44 <GiovanniT> there have to be limits in a pratical actual system .. and that's what i am after currently
14:00:44 <laplink> Frank is a Netsacpe 3 holdout, and longtime subscriber to w-v. That's about the sum of my knowledge.
14:00:49 <sbp> I think that adding arbitrary data to a system designed to propagate arbitrary data is rather useful, and I'd go to any lengths I could to make sure that's possible
14:00:55 <sbp> Netscape 3 holdout? bwahahaha
14:01:06 <sbp> seems to fit
14:01:23 <sbp> .wordnet add greughle
14:01:26 <phenny> I couldn't find add greughle in WordNet.
14:01:32 <sbp> ooh. forgot about that
14:02:05 <GiovanniT> its clear that rdf is about metadata
14:02:18 <GiovanniT> and its clear that if any scalability has to be retained the PRACTICAL system has to be rather strict about this
14:02:30 <sbp> GiovanniT: well, this is a well-known problem, you're just trying to solve it very incompetently. with P2P networks, you have to make sure that the amount of stored data is less than the overall amount of storage space, or you have to drop some data
14:02:47 <sbp> so you can either a) make people pay for their insertion of data, perhaps making them pay less if they've donated more space
14:03:01 <sbp> b) find out a way to remove the redundant data (difficult)
14:03:05 <GiovanniT> sbp: if you substitute incompetently with "subsolving" it i might accept that without getting a bit up
14:03:32 <sbp> c) one of the many over ways of dealing with the problem that's been discussed in academic P2P literature in the past half decade or so
14:03:35 <sbp> er, other
14:04:08 <Arnia> * Arnia writes 'Metadata' on the list on the wall of things not to mention (its safer than the Book)
14:04:32 <sbp> there's no shame in being incompetent--it's part of the learning process. when I came to start work on P2P stuff, I didn't think about the problem at all; then it was explained to me and now I'm at this particular level; were I into it more, I'd be a lot more educated on the subject, so there's plenty more for us all to learn
14:05:29 <laplink> .w incompetent
14:05:32 <phenny> incompetent is defined as:-
14:05:35 <phenny> 1. someone who is not competent to take effective action
14:05:38 <phenny> 2. not qualified or suited for a purpose; "an incompetent secret service"; "the filming was hopeless incompetent"
14:05:42 <phenny> 3. showing lack of skill or aptitude; "a bungling workman"; "did a clumsy job"; "his fumbling attempt to put up a shelf" [...]
14:05:47 <sbp> I'm not sure what relation the word "subsolving" bears. the approach of putting arbitrary limits on the type of data entered, banning certain URIs as you proposed, is simply highly short of being anywhere near effective
14:06:09 <laplink> .w subsolve
14:06:12 <phenny> I couldn't find subsolve in WordNet.
14:06:17 <Arnia> .w sub
14:06:20 <phenny> sub is defined as:-
14:06:20 <sbp> O NOE, IT ARE NOT EVEN WORD!
14:06:23 <phenny> 1. a large sandwich made of a long crusty roll split lengthwise and filled with meats and cheese (and tomato and onion and lettuce and condiments); different names are used in different sections of the United States
14:06:27 <phenny> 2. a submersible warship usually armed with torpedoes
14:06:31 <phenny> 3. be a substitute; "The young teacher had to substitute for the sick colleague"; "The skim milk substitutes for cream--we are on a strict diet" [...]
14:06:38 <laplink> .g sobsolutal
14:06:38 <Arnia> .w solve
14:06:41 <sbp> ha, stoopid en-us wordnet
14:06:41 <phenny> sobsolutal: sorry, no results were found.
14:06:43 <phenny> solve is defined as:-
14:06:46 <GiovanniT> sbp: there is a profound difference between talking and doing stuff
14:06:46 <phenny> 1. find the solution to (a problem or question) or understand the meaning of; "did you solve the problem?"; "Work out your problems with the boss"; "this unpleasant situation isn't going to work itself out"; "did you get it?"; "Did you get my meaning?"; "He could not work the math problem"
14:06:50 <phenny> 2. find the solution; "solve an equation"; "solve for x"
14:06:54 <phenny> 3. settle, as of a debt; "clear a debt"; "solve an old debt" [...]
14:06:59 <GiovanniT> doing stuff mightin this case involves putting limits
14:07:21 <Arnia> So I deduce subsolve to mean 'a long crusty roll that settles debts'
14:07:25 <sbp> GiovanniT: which is why I've been implementing this stuff for the past N years, discussing all of the approaches as I've gone along, and coming to many various conclusions that enable people to not waste their implementation time if they only listen
14:07:38 <GiovanniT> that makes "the beauty of it all" less beuty for the higher accademic spheres but it can get common peopel rolling using sw tecnologies
14:08:07 <GiovanniT> although i am getting a ph.d in this and i am researcher in p2p among the other things i am aiming at rolling something out
14:08:41 <Arnia> I don't see any real need to reduce the expressiveness of RDF to mere metadata
14:09:10 <Arnia> What need do you see?
14:09:53 <GiovanniT> arnia: practical.. there isnt anything that you CANT do if you use a URI instead of a litteral (is it?) .. at the same time using a UIR is say.. 30 bytes on the average and you're just shipping that around. Its a practical need
14:10:07 <Arnia> * Arnia looks at Freenet for RDF graphs with some interest
14:10:50 <Arnia> GiovanniT: I don't see how its different, apart from requiring less look up time for the literals in graph case
14:10:51 <sbp> you can't make comments very easily...
14:11:26 <Arnia> If you have to go around resolving URIs and downloading information, well you've got to do even more information transfer
14:11:50 <Arnia> You could just specify that properties with their object as a literal should only be shipped on-demand
14:11:51 <GiovanniT> well if you're not itnerested in a comment that has been marked as "troll" by the trust system, why downloading it
14:12:02 <sbp> not to mention that you have to have the ability to publish to, and maintain on, the Web your information
14:12:52 <Arnia> I don't believe a p2p graph sharing process should be like rsync... it should be very much based on distributed queries and on-demand fetches IMO
14:13:02 <sbp> well it's stored in a P2P network. it's like not downloading mexican horse porn or something from a current network: your client says "hey, I don't trust this dude. I think it's horse porn again" and so you don't download it
14:13:31 <GiovanniT> arnia: i am in the rsync model now so to say.. but it allows you to sync just bout the stuff you're interested right now. Distributed queries cant work
14:13:44 <Arnia> GiovanniT: Why not?
14:13:45 <sbp> not to pick on mexican horse porn particularly. I'm sure that brazillian and spanish and english horse porn is just as downloadworthyless
14:14:09 <GiovanniT> it works wonders when you have a few educated users.. otherwise you can easily DOS any server query
14:14:32 <GiovanniT> give me a singer that sings this and does that and knows another singer that..
14:14:41 <GiovanniT> ah.. by the way.. spread it around to the whole 100k of us
14:15:01 <Arnia> GiovanniT: You don't need to spread to everyone, just on a trust-network basis
14:15:09 <sbp> data expands to fit the available storage space...
14:15:14 <Arnia> * Arnia doesn't believe in total correctness, just useful correctness
14:15:37 <laplink> ...plus a fixed 10% margin.
14:16:08 <sbp> actually, how is your system working? is it just storing the data that people insert locally, or does it distribute it between clients? if the latter, does it have redundancy? is it encrypted?
14:16:14 <sbp> 10% margin: heh, yeah
14:17:29 <GiovanniT> the redundancy is 100% .. you fetch the stuff you're interested into .. the whole "semantic web topic" as defined by some rudimental topic descriptor
14:17:41 <GiovanniT> since you have it locally then you can do all the querying you want
14:17:45 <GiovanniT> all the fancy interface you want
14:17:53 <GiovanniT> remote queries which are non trivial are banned
14:18:01 <sbp> well, I'm asking about data that you insert. if user X inserts data Y, where is data Y stored? on X's computer only?
14:18:06 <GiovanniT> so people can run it without being DOSsed
14:18:18 <GiovanniT> it starts to be stored on his computer
14:18:42 <sbp> and then?
14:18:44 <GiovanniT> after some time he will claim to the group to have some new info about that.. people will fetch ti to be able to use it locally and will replicate it by doing so
14:18:52 <Arnia> What about your system stops it being DOSed?
14:19:04 <sbp> okay, so as in the majority of P2P networks
14:19:28 <sbp> in that case, your storage space problem disappears
14:19:42 <GiovanniT> yes except this is for RDF
14:19:44 <laplink> It does?
14:19:59 <GiovanniT> well i say you actyually have a local storage problem in the long run
14:20:09 <sbp> laplink: well to some extent; there's still the query problem. if people want to insert 50GB of data, then let them: if they're storing it on their computer, they have to provide the space
14:20:21 <GiovanniT> but i want to get something rolling before wondering about the long run. There will be hacks allowing the long run
14:20:26 <sbp> and we know (coughgooglecough) that difficult search problems can be solved
14:21:14 <GiovanniT> sbp: not really.. if you insert 50gb of rdf in a group that you joi nhere the other will copy 50gb.. sad but true. they will download it off each other so the load can be shared but the current RAW model is like this
14:21:35 <sbp> okay. so in the RAW model you can DoS it
14:22:02 <GiovanniT> cant you flood with message any message board?
14:22:04 <GiovanniT> or any IRC board?
14:22:09 <GiovanniT> or any WIKIPEDIA?
14:22:19 <sbp> the difference there is that it can easily be maintained
14:22:21 <GiovanniT> of course you can.. so its the world. :-)
14:22:30 <sbp> with your system, the system itself is controlling the load balancing
14:22:39 <sbp> no, it's different. your system ain't the world
14:22:41 <sbp> :-)
14:22:52 <sbp> but it's no problem
14:22:59 <sbp> demo versions are just demo versions
14:23:22 <GiovanniT> yup. so help out with that uri resolver :-)
14:23:37 <sbp> right. which leads us back to our original question: what URI resolver?
14:23:48 <GiovanniT> i give you the use case
14:23:54 <sbp> okay
14:24:03 <GiovanniT> we're talkign bout beers (That's going to be the first "brainlet" created on top of dbin)
14:24:15 <sbp> whoo. beers is a good use case, agreed
14:24:24 <GiovanniT> you want to insert the name of a local beer.. you state it belongs to this kind its made with this ingradients
14:24:27 <GiovanniT> it costs this much
14:24:31 <GiovanniT> adn that is RDF..
14:24:34 <sbp> okay
14:24:38 <sbp> .g Beer Ontology
14:24:41 <phenny> Beer Ontology: http://www.cs.umd.edu/projects/plus/SHOE/onts/beer1.0.html
14:24:45 <GiovanniT> then you want to say "ooh bla bla bla" and put a picture of you gulping it
14:24:45 <sbp> I'd use that
14:24:51 <GiovanniT> yeah :-) we're using that already of course
14:25:05 <sbp> heh, heh. cool
14:26:18 <GiovanniT> the way it works you have uri:mylocalbeer that you dont want to resolve really ther esis no need.. but then you want to say urn:mylocalbeer->rdfs:comment->"bla bla bla bla"
14:26:44 <sbp> * sbp nods
14:26:52 <GiovanniT> and i say you cant do that if you do the algorithm wont ship it out. becouse "its data" .. according to the infamous being that created the shipping algorithm
14:27:24 <GiovanniT> the same one howeversuggest you "use a uri instead" .. so you could add your comment on your local board and put the uri of that one. That would do it
14:27:59 <sbp> I don't have a local board. I'm just a new Web user and I wanted to share this comment with a friend using your system
14:28:09 <GiovanniT> but more conveniently you press a button a nice "insert a comment" window pop up and dbin does tat for you.. crreates a URI and "puts it" ina a space that other "URI resolvers" in other installations can then access and show your comment when you're clicking on urn:mylocalbeer
14:28:21 <sbp> ah
14:28:34 <sbp> on which server is the information to be stored?
14:28:45 <d8uv> Hello!
14:28:47 <GiovanniT> that is what the "uri tool" should do :-)
14:28:52 <sbp> hey d8uv
14:28:54 <Arnia> Uhh... forgive me for being dense. Why is that any different to the other way of doing it?
14:28:55 <GiovanniT> hello d8uv :-)
14:29:18 <d8uv> How is #shwack?
14:29:33 <sbp> (Arnia's, incidentally, apparently attacking the point that I want to lead you to Socratically head on)
14:30:08 <Arnia> * Arnia hands sean some chocolate buttons
14:30:11 <sbp> well you're a part of #swhack, d8uv, so you' should be able to account for about a 30th of it
14:30:33 <GiovanniT> arnia: well .. i need an actual api
14:30:35 <sbp> thanks. I'm eating now but I'll save them for later
14:30:49 <GiovanniT> arnia: its not teaory here .. its a practical instance with "some" scalability
14:30:59 <GiovanniT> ideally something that interfaces with existing p2p would do it
14:31:10 <sbp> what, I think, Arnia means is that the information is now being stored on a central server right?
14:31:22 <sbp> so you could simply allow the literals to be stored and shunt them off to the central server
14:31:51 <sbp> (central server: the URI resolver server)
14:32:11 <laplink> .g Annotea
14:32:13 <phenny> Annotea: http://www.w3.org/2001/Annotea/
14:32:31 <GiovanniT> well .. i could allow them to be stored immediately and then process it later but
14:32:57 <Arnia> GiovanniT: The web does all this storage. Your system seems to need the web + lots of caching (either that or a more conservative link-forming mechanism between nodes)
14:33:02 <GiovanniT> i am more into inserting the "right" rdf graph first and at the same time concurrently or after insert the "data" into the "uri tool"
14:33:27 <GiovanniT> arnia: yes i know.. i need a API saying "the web" doesnt make the system works :-)
14:33:34 <Arnia> REST
14:33:50 <sbp> the URI tool can be something that searches for RDF Literals and stores from on a separate central huge server
14:34:30 <Arnia> Use URLs as model URLs and use REST to do updates, fetches and whole-model deletions on these model URLs
14:34:39 <GiovanniT> maybe.. but you really dont want to create spurious local RDF .. you wan tthe local database as terse as possible afterall its being shipped to the others. Yes of course a CRALEWE that gets existing RDF into this system would act like that
14:34:45 <GiovanniT> rest?
14:34:50 <Arnia> * Arnia has become a convert to the RESTful way
14:35:07 <GiovanniT> mention REST url again pleasE?
14:35:13 <sbp> GiovanniT: there would be no spurious local RDF. it would be shunted off to the remote server
14:35:34 <Arnia> .g Representational State Transfer
14:35:37 <phenny> Representational State Transfer: http://www.ics.uci.edu/~fielding/pubs/dissertation/rest_arch_style.htm
14:35:51 <sbp> http://www.nwfusion.com/ee/2003/eerest.html
14:36:08 <Arnia> .g XML.com REST
14:36:10 <phenny> XML.com REST: http://webservices.xml.com/pub/a/ws/2002/02/20/rest.html
14:36:22 <jsled> .g REST wiki
14:36:25 <phenny> REST wiki: http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?RestArchitecturalStyle
14:36:39 <laplink> .give it a REST
14:36:46 <GiovanniT> you dont send the local rdf to a remote server
14:36:59 <GiovanniT> you send it directly to the peers asking you "what do you know about micale jackson" ?
14:37:12 <crschmidt> *** crschmidt (~crschmidt@dslv-1-137.mv.com) has joined #swhack
14:37:35 <sbp> * sbp sobs
14:37:42 <sbp> (hi there crschmidt)
14:37:51 <sbp> (not connected to your entry)
14:38:11 <laplink> *** laplink has quit ("Off to have dinner...")
14:38:23 <Arnia> GiovanniT: REST is the architectural design of the web
14:38:50 <sbp> GiovanniT: I'm still talking about your limit on Literal data. you're saying that it should be put into a URI resolver system. I'm saying that the URI resolver system can be an internal part of the P2P system such that it almost completely disappears
14:39:13 <GiovanniT> sbp: we agree
14:39:32 <jsled-laptop> *** jsled-laptop (~jsled@dsl252.wnskvtwa.sover.net) has joined #swhack
14:40:01 <Arnia> With a RESTful system, I could use 'GET <modeluri>?qlang=brql&query=SELECT...' to fetch information from a model; 'PUT <modeluri>' to submit an RDF diff etc
14:40:01 <sbp> so instead of taking each literal URI and then posting it to a web server somewhere that then lets you access it with a URI, you're agreed that you can put it on a server that is part of the P2P network and just accumulate all the literals on that server? I don't think that's optimum at all, but you should see that they're equivalent (but the latter is more efficient)
14:41:09 <GiovanniT> sbp yes since the're both uri based the're equivalent
14:41:26 <sbp> the latter isn't URI based
14:41:54 <sbp> no URIs involved at all. the Literals are simply stored on another server somehow. depends on your system as to how you achieve that...
14:41:54 <GiovanniT> ed2k would work as such central storage no?
14:42:05 <GiovanniT> then you use ed2k: uris
14:42:21 <sbp> I guess so, yeah
14:42:30 <GiovanniT> i am not talking just littlerals here but also data .. pictures and stuff but lets use "litterals" as a term
14:42:40 <sbp> I see
14:42:42 <sbp> hmm
14:43:11 <sbp> I should've listened more closely to Arnia's "you want it to be a metadata system?" comment
14:43:45 <sbp> I don't particularly believe in the data/metadata segregation idiom
14:43:54 <Arnia> * Arnia hates it
14:44:45 <GiovanniT> sbp: the're not segregates URIs nicely do their job
14:45:06 <GiovanniT> at least in what i picture to be the final application
14:45:41 <GiovanniT> all in all think.. if there isnt anything semantically structured.. there isnt much point in shipping it with the overall semantic description
14:46:24 <sbp> well we'll see
14:47:23 <sbp> the thing is that this basically exists already: it's called the Web, and it needs no extra programming or features. anyone can publish RDF about anything already, and they are doing so
14:47:59 <sbp> I don't see what advantages your P2P system has over that. P2P is normally used for sharing copious amounts of data between peers where the Web doesn't facilitate that for some reason
14:48:08 <sbp> you, on the other hand, are extremely anti-data with this system
14:48:19 <sbp> thus, it seems to make it rather achingly pointless
14:48:38 <GiovanniT> sbp: its really not difficult to understand
14:48:38 <sbp> I'd work on Web crawling and indexing systems instead
14:48:50 <jsled-laptop> hmm. I think you're supressing his right to be inefficient.
14:48:56 <sbp> hehe
14:49:00 <d8uv> Webcrawling and indexing sucks.
14:49:04 <GiovanniT> sbp: ahh yesh.. why not.. then put all in a centralized server and allow people to do arbitrary queries on that :-) how sustainable
14:49:09 <Arnia> I'm still eager for work to be done on DNS-SD crawls
14:49:20 <sbp> worked for Google
14:49:30 <d8uv> Google has monies.
14:49:32 <sbp> if Google would turn their attention to RDF, the problem would be solved in months
14:49:38 <GiovanniT> sbp : read my paper
14:49:41 <sbp> they didn't when they started out
14:49:43 <sbp> where is your paper?
14:49:51 <GiovanniT> www.dbin.org
14:49:59 <jsled-laptop> dustbin?
14:50:28 <GiovanniT> its going to be presented in boston in 2 weeks if you're around there.. i am presenting an earlier version of that but still
14:50:45 <sbp> 'an enthusiasic and bold effort to deliver a "napster like" P2P tool' - Napster was for the sharing of large music files, not annotations. but skipping on...
14:51:04 <sbp> you want me to read this one: <http://www.dbin.org/twiki/pub/About/WebHome/RDFGROWth_workshopISWC2004.pdf>?
14:51:09 <GiovanniT> what's part of the "like" word you dont get?
14:51:34 <sbp> the part where some similarity is expressed
14:51:38 <jsled-laptop> dastardly brought intarweb network?
14:51:48 <GiovanniT> similar as in usage
14:51:53 <sbp> if you say it's "P2P", I've think you've got all of the similarity parts covered
14:51:54 <GiovanniT> you run it on your computer insert your stuff
14:52:18 <sbp> well, reading the paper anyway
14:52:19 <Arnia> GiovanniT: That's now how it sounds to me either
14:52:23 <GiovanniT> ..except if you say p2p with "sw" attached to it right now you get edutella and other stuff that cant possibly be kept open for general use
14:52:25 <Arnia> * Arnia shrugs and reads
14:52:27 <d8uv> Hmm... I don't think it matters if it's efficient or not. SW P2P is just *cool*
14:52:35 <sbp> cool if you allow data
14:52:41 <d8uv> Plus, decentralisation rocks.
14:52:43 <GiovanniT> but i'd agree i can word that better
14:52:50 <Arnia> REST all the way :)
14:52:51 <GiovanniT> sbp there is no point in adding data to the RDF graph
14:53:04 <Arnia> (aside from the bits which are DBUSed)
14:53:11 <GiovanniT> just add it to the "uri tool" it will put it somewhere accessable the "uri tool" in the other installation will fetch it.. so all i s happy
14:53:45 <jsled-laptop> Arnia: heh.
14:54:23 <GiovanniT> arnia: rest we like. but again, i need a api getMeURIThatPeopleCanResolve(byte[] data)
14:54:39 <GiovanniT> and bytes[] = getThisStuff(URI uri)
14:54:44 <Arnia> Actually, I don't get the query problem
14:55:28 <Arnia> Why not farm out queries in the form of 'triple patterns' with wildcards -- eg (*, dc:title, "Dogs in the moonlight")
14:55:32 <jsled-laptop> GiovanniT: um... GET?
14:55:35 <sbp> ah, here we go: [[[
14:55:36 <sbp> requests on the semantic web are naturally expressed in query languages
14:55:36 <sbp> and, given the graph nature of RDF structured information, the complexity of
14:55:36 <sbp> execution is not bounded a priori as it is a function of the query type as well as the
14:55:36 <sbp> quantity and the structure of the data
14:55:37 <sbp> ]]]
14:56:02 <sbp> I still think that FOAF is proving that wrong to a great extent. check out PLINK and so forth
14:56:04 <GiovanniT> jsled: if it was clear for a generic user how to do a PUT then yes :-)
14:56:19 <jsled-laptop> GiovanniT: how is it not clear?
14:56:27 <Arnia> GiovanniT: PUT <modeluri> <some rdf diff>
14:56:39 <jsled-laptop> GiovanniT: you're saying for the first case...
14:56:39 <Arnia> * Arnia likes RDF Diff and thanks Sean for reminding him of its existance
14:56:46 <sbp> whoo for RDF Diff
14:56:51 <GiovanniT> yesss but where? which server? you give me a server with unlimited storage for the average guy out there to put his files?
14:57:02 <Arnia> GiovanniT: The server containing the model
14:57:15 <jsled-laptop> GiovanniT: yeah, csoft.net has pretty good pricing/servers.
14:57:29 <Arnia> Hence why I believe models should be URLs more than URIs (although reification can allow use of full URIs of course)
14:57:55 <GiovanniT> arnia the model (if you're referring to the rdf) is in each peer
14:58:30 <GiovanniT> jsled: ed2k or bittorrent seems a bit more scalable better :-)
14:58:40 <Arnia> jsled-laptop: Plus, if you use a trust-network backed mirroring you can 'publish' it locally and have your friends and others who trust you gradually begin mirroring it non-authoratively
14:58:58 <Arnia> (as they use it)
14:59:12 <sbp> HTTP PUT Implementations (on the Atom wiki): http://intertwingly.net/wiki/pie/PutDeleteSupport
14:59:13 <swhacker> posted 533
14:59:40 <jsled-laptop> Arnia: sure... I buy that.
15:00:16 <Arnia> jsled-laptop: I'm going to be working with sh1mmer on the interplay of trust and publication here. Which should be cool
15:01:19 <sbp> Arnia: in CWM/SWAP, the RDF model and a URI of a document are connected using log:semantics; its domain is the document, its range is the formula (RDF Graph)
15:01:59 <Arnia> sbp: Yes, I know... I was planning on using that to do some research based on CWM :)
15:02:25 <sbp> which is a nice distinction since given the URI identification problem (can't tell what http://.../ refers to even if you can get an RDF/XML graph as a representation of it)
15:02:26 <sbp> cool
15:03:23 <jsled-laptop> GiovanniT: bittorrent doesn't exactly "scale better" than the web. It's allows a more efficient distribution of specific content, especially given asymmetric bandwidth channels.
15:03:47 <Arnia> And if I can, I want to add PUT support (for RDF Diffs) into Joseki to test it
15:04:07 <GiovanniT> so getting a web server and using ATOP+ some preexisting api can do it
15:04:46 <GiovanniT> in fact i think we'll do it like that.. but it would be great to have a "uri tool" resolve multiple stuff like uris excengend on existing data p2p networks so that you can use dbin as a edonkey companion so to say
15:05:09 <eikeon> *** eikeon has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:05:16 <GiovanniT> ATOM
15:06:11 <jsled-laptop> so, you're saying some _other_ URI scheme with specific resolution semantics.
15:06:27 <jsled-laptop> a 'p2p:' scheme.
15:06:40 <GiovanniT> yes, for example
15:07:24 <GiovanniT> of course if you have a preexisting http:// url in the rdf .. i'll just fetch that. but as far as inserting that requires remote tructures.. and remote structures to be pubblically used by unknown people to upload pubblically available unknown stuff
15:08:08 <GiovanniT> i see distributed p2p storage as a better default solution as an important component of the "uri tool" i need
15:08:23 <Arnia> Can't all queries be converted to the (s,p,o) wildcard form? And your paper quotes an efficiency of log(N) for queries of that form
15:08:55 <Arnia> * Arnia needs to get some stuff sorted so he can think about this
15:09:10 <GiovanniT> arnia: i think you're referring to me talking about RDFPeers
15:09:19 <GiovanniT> log(n) is with the number of peers really not of uris in that case
15:09:27 <GiovanniT> we might have failed to spacify so
15:09:52 <sbp> (incidentally, in semplesh we were planning hashing the triples and... let me find Jeremiah's writeup)
15:09:59 <sbp> er, planning on
15:10:19 <GiovanniT> hashing the triples ? take a look at RDFPeers it seems pretty cool
15:10:38 <Arnia> sbp: You mean using a hash table
15:11:01 <GiovanniT> arnia: i think he means hashing and sending around. am i right? am i? :-))
15:11:47 <sbp> http://www.kingprimate.com/weblog/archives/2003_11_02.html#09:30PM
15:12:04 <crschmidt> Bah, redmonk passed me in idlerpg.
15:12:52 <sbp> heh, heh
15:13:02 <Arnia> loggy: pointer
15:13:02 <Arnia> See http://swhack.com/logs/2004-08-07#T15-13-02
15:13:35 <Arnia> phenny, tell sh1mmer you may be interested in reading the discussion from just before http://swhack.com/logs/2004-08-07#T15-13-02 on
15:13:37 <phenny> Arnia: I'll pass that on for you when sh1mmer is around.
15:13:42 <GiovanniT> that seems pretty much rdfpeers'
15:13:54 <Arnia> phenny: Thanks
15:15:29 <crschmidt> "an org who's task in life is to foster and promulgate open standards (APIs, Schema and user interfaqces) for the purposes of tapping into the vast warehouses of public domain CC media." -- Does that make sense to anyone else? How do you need an API to access something that's on the web?
15:16:17 <Arnia> crschmidt: everything needs an API you know (preferably backed up with RPC, RMI, CORBA, DCOM etc)
15:16:21 <sbp> s/who's/whose/
15:16:33 <crschmidt> sbp: yes, but I include the typos for effect ;)
15:16:37 <Arnia> sbp: Pedant :)
15:16:42 <Arnia> [sic]
15:16:51 <crschmidt> yeah, but I'm lazy ;)
15:16:59 <crschmidt> interfaqces is also a [sic]
15:17:03 <sbp> no, not a pedant at all. didn't say a word about "interfaqces", not "Schema" being capitalised
15:17:06 <jsled-laptop> CC = ?
15:17:10 <sbp> s/not/nor/
15:17:13 <sbp> Creative Commons
15:17:14 <crschmidt> Creative Commons
15:17:20 <jsled-laptop> * jsled-laptop thought so ...
15:17:37 <sbp> sounds like buzzwords on a string to me
15:17:46 <GiovanniT> its the upload part that makes me not want to use http:// i could put an http server in each client but that.. wouldnt work 9/10
15:18:10 <sbp> .gc "buzzwords on a string"
15:18:15 <phenny> no results found.
15:18:16 <jsled-laptop> GiovanniT: why not?
15:18:19 <sbp> yay
15:18:22 <jsled-laptop> * jsled-laptop bites
15:18:40 <GiovanniT> jsled: 9/10 if not more are behind firewall
15:18:46 <Arnia> @google fight synergy enabling
15:19:03 <supybot> Arnia: 'enabling': 3070000, 'synergy': 1300000
15:19:12 <sbp> @google fight generic methodologies
15:19:14 <Arnia> GiovanniT: So you'll potentially open security holes by tunnelling?
15:19:33 <GiovanniT> arnia: so i dont want to use a local webserver as a mean to publish material
15:19:36 <supybot> sbp: 'generic': 5940000, 'methodologies': 1130000
15:19:44 <jsled-laptop> GiovanniT: fair enough.
15:20:05 <sbp> "Our synergistic approach enables generic distributed methodologies to occur in the area of schemata aggregation, metadata promulgation, and colocative queries."
15:20:16 <GiovanniT> the p2p client work also behind firewalls becouse currentlu its on top of a api that goes trough a server but that's just for messaging
15:20:33 <GiovanniT> sbp: is that from a real text :-)?
15:20:39 <sbp> nope, thankfully
15:20:44 <jsled-laptop> Other reasons we would have accepted are "no stable naming" and "user authentication"
15:20:45 <sbp> but based on many...
15:20:55 <GiovanniT> jsled :-) naturally
15:20:59 <crschmidt> * crschmidt wonders if there's a kwiki module for spell checking.
15:21:03 <GiovanniT> jsled: and transient nature of the peers
15:21:21 <GiovanniT> and bandwidth.. replications ..
15:21:22 <jsled-laptop> GiovanniT: well, that one is true in both cases.
15:21:29 <jsled-laptop> GiovanniT: bandwidth?
15:21:37 <crschmidt> .w promulgate
15:21:40 <phenny> promulgate is defined as:-
15:21:43 <phenny> 1. state or announce; "`I am not a Communist,' " he exclaimed; "The King will proclaim an amnesty"
15:21:46 <phenny> 2. put a law into effect by formal declaration
15:21:51 <GiovanniT> you put a popular comment/picture and you're slashdotted :-)
15:21:55 <sbp> hmm: [[[
15:21:56 <sbp> Do you think it would be difficult to add the spell check function from the openwebmail project to kwiki? Just a thot.
15:21:56 <sbp> You can add a spell checker to your web browser, as I ran through this text to check the spelling.
15:22:01 <sbp> ]]] - http://kwiki.org/index.cgi?RequestsFromCommentOnFeatures
15:22:08 <jsled-laptop> GiovanniT: oh ... that's a different issue.
15:22:33 <crschmidt> sbp: yeah, you can, but I don't have access to Canter's machine, and he's obviously chosen not to use such a tool ;)
15:22:48 <sbp> heh, heh
15:23:29 <sbp> it was the only reference to kwiki and spell-checking on Google
15:23:34 <sbp> that I could find
15:23:54 <GiovanniT> so freenet ideally
15:23:59 <crschmidt> A goal of openmedia is: "DNS registration of all CC content"
15:24:05 <GiovanniT> is there a non secure, fast freenet like system?
15:24:08 <crschmidt> ... Does that mean anything?
15:24:26 <sbp> fast, working freenet: we'd all like that. not that we know of
15:24:32 <jsled-laptop> crschmidt: that the author was confused?
15:24:36 <GiovanniT> sbp: i mean giving up on anonymity
15:24:46 <sbp> DNS registration? of CC content?
15:24:48 <GiovanniT> sbp: i mean something that implements a "put" "get" in a distributed way
15:24:50 <crschmidt> jsled-laptop: He lives in a constant state of confusion. Does it mean anything more specific than that?
15:24:56 <GiovanniT> sbp: traversing firewalls
15:25:21 <sbp> ah. dunno. tav would've been on about them if there were, though, probably
15:25:27 <jsled-laptop> hmm... there's a thought... just an addendum to the connection-establishment side of HTTP.
15:25:35 <sbp> DNS. registration
15:25:38 <sbp> of CC. content
15:25:45 <GiovanniT> taV?
15:25:49 <sbp> D"N"S; registration of CC, content?
15:25:55 <sbp> hmm
15:26:09 <crschmidt> sbp: It doesn't make sense no matter how you much punctuation you use?
15:26:20 <sbp> DoS registration apple Coruscational Candyfloss content
15:26:29 <sbp> nor how much you mutate it
15:26:42 <sbp> it's an intriguing koan in a sense
15:26:45 <crschmidt> "Standardized Schemas and APIs for shared server services"
15:26:46 <jsled-laptop> hah
15:26:49 <sbp> DNS registration of all CC content
15:27:02 <sbp> quick! we must register all CC content with DNS!
15:27:05 <sbp> QUICK!
15:27:25 <jsled-laptop> it just indicates a severe confusion about what DNS should be-, and is suited, for.
15:27:37 <jsled-laptop> schemas are good; apis aren't.
15:27:38 <sbp> no, I don't think so
15:27:42 <sbp> for example consider this:
15:27:52 <sbp> Cheese registration of all CC content
15:28:01 <sbp> that actually make a little more sense. not much, but a little
15:28:02 <jsled-laptop> doesn't "services" imply a "server".
15:28:13 <crschmidt> Okay, I'm going to move to #openmedia for discussion of OpenMedia stuff (not to avoid logging so much as the fact that I'm detracting from the level of conversation here)
15:28:26 <jsled-laptop> alight, I'll bite...
15:28:32 <crschmidt> So, if anyone is interested, feel free to hop over ;)
15:28:53 <sbp> DNS Registration. the first result on Google redirects to http://www.dns.net/dnsrd/tld.html
15:29:12 <sbp> which affirms by belief that DNS registration is the act or process of registering DNS names
15:29:31 <sbp> seems obvious, but one must be careful!
15:29:45 <sbp> CC content is much harder
15:30:02 <sbp> we shall take it that it is meant "all content licensed under a CC license"
15:30:09 <sbp> .g Creative Commons licenses
15:30:11 <phenny> Creative Commons licenses: http://creativecommons.org/license/
15:30:21 <sbp> okay, again we can be fairly clear and certain
15:30:27 <sbp> DNS registration
15:30:30 <sbp> CC content
15:30:52 <sbp> the quantifier "all" is likewise non-confusing
15:30:58 <sbp> DNS registration, all CC content
15:31:07 <sbp> therefore the problem is clearly with the preposition
15:31:09 <sbp> "of"
15:31:20 <sbp> (DNS registration) (of) (all CC content)
15:31:27 <sbp> those three groups each separately make sense
15:31:36 <sbp> their juxtaposition is in error
15:32:16 <sbp> where is everybody? oh, #openmedia
15:32:27 <crschmidt> well, only 3 of us ;)
15:33:24 <sbp> a haiku: [[[
15:33:29 <sbp> All CC content
15:33:37 <sbp> DNS registration
15:33:40 <sbp> preposition: of
15:33:42 <sbp> ]]]
15:36:49 <jsled-laptop> So ... yeah ... HTTP definitely has some weaknesses
15:37:00 <jsled-laptop> And P-P stuff gets around them.
15:37:16 <jsled-laptop> I guess you really want some hybrid of them.
15:37:30 <jsled-laptop> GiovanniT: you're aware of the JXTA stuff ... is it a constrained interface?
15:39:06 <GiovanniT> have been considering jxta for a long time
15:39:10 <GiovanniT> and avoided it since
15:39:42 <GiovanniT> i have had.. 2 experienced friends attempting to use it and giving up in frustration after several days
15:40:08 <GiovanniT> but i have no direct impression on it
15:42:53 <ear1grey> *** ear1grey (~rjb@spc1-cosh5-4-0-cust123.cosh.broadband.ntl.com) has joined #swhack
15:43:33 <sbp> hi there ear1grey. welcome to Swhack. more info at swhack.com
15:43:47 <sbp> this is a publicly logged channel, so don't say anything that'd destroy your potential future political career
15:44:11 <sbp> ear1grey: how was the london marathon?
15:44:38 <sbp> ooh, ooh, actually since Jim and Moira aren't here: was it fun sleeping without a tent in the middle of the australian outback, and how many stars could you see?
15:45:06 <jsled-laptop> GiovanniT: yah, just looking at the protocol spec it looks like a nightmare
15:46:01 <GiovanniT> i think..
15:46:12 <GiovanniT> one could rpovide http:// upload also for simple stuff for example text messages provided that you register or that logs are kept
15:46:25 <GiovanniT> so it becomse somehow like a mail program.. its up to you to give it a smtp server
15:46:38 <GiovanniT> you can roll your own of course that is your web publishing space for exsample
15:47:14 <ear1grey> :) Marathon was painless - ta.
15:50:00 <jsled-laptop> hmm. the JXTA protocol involves multiply-encoded wholly-contained sub-documents.
15:50:04 <jsled-laptop> except.
15:50:18 <jsled-laptop> it looks like only the start-tags of those documents are encoded.
15:53:07 <sbp> * sbp wonders how ear1grey came across #swhack
15:56:05 <ear1grey> * ear1grey was chattion with giovanni about his need for a URI resolver
15:56:42 <ear1grey> * ear1grey was thus directed thusly here and is proceeding to catch up through the logs
15:56:43 <GiovanniT> sbp: i told him there was a great group about swwhere people talked instead of idling still :-)
15:57:32 <ear1grey> seems i might have a framework for building what giovanni's looking for (even if it's not the solution it's probably a good starting point)
15:58:45 <GiovanniT> its missing the upload part :-) but you guys here pointed to ATOM i think a release 0 can work on top of atop plus some email checking registration service for at least some checking
16:00:15 <sbp> ah, okay
16:00:53 <sbp> note that this isn't really an RDF discussion channel per se, just that there are a lot of RDF developers that happen to frequent it
16:01:37 <sbp> cf. my point to jsled a couple of days ago: 2004-08-03 15:44:46 <sbp> holding RDF conversations here takes it out of reach of the many potentially interested folk on #rdfig; the opposite is generally not true since there are no RDF folk of that I know who are on #swhack but not #rdfig
16:01:50 <sbp> (except for kpreid)
16:02:28 <GiovanniT> yeah but i get the impression rdfig might be hearder to talk to ?
16:02:37 <GiovanniT> sw stands for software ? i assumed semantic web
16:03:06 <sbp> it doesn't stand for anything, as Talliesin said earlier: <Talliesin_> Swhack is onomatapoeic, but the fact that it could be Semantic Web Hack or SoftWare Hack was most likely not entirely unconnected.
16:03:26 <MoiraA> sbp hello
16:03:38 <sbp> hey there Moira
16:03:39 <jsled-laptop> +1 re cf point to me.
16:03:39 <MoiraA> wonder how many times you've explained what swhack stands for :)
16:03:39 <GiovanniT> :-) so its the right place :-)
16:03:56 <jsled-laptop> no, his point is it's probably not the right place.
16:03:59 <sbp> yeah. I need to put it right at the top in the New FAQ I think!
16:04:07 <jsled-laptop> that #rdfig is probably the "right" place.
16:05:00 <sbp> #swhack is good when a) the idea is really unbaked or b) there's little activity on #rdfig and you need some direct feedback
16:05:26 <sbp> but otherwise, you're probably missing out on higher quality feedback by talking people, and excluding some knowledgable people from the proceedings
16:05:26 <GiovanniT> sbp :-) there is no activity most of the time and i wonder why really
16:05:44 <sbp> because everybody talks on #foaf and #swhack most likely :-)
16:06:09 <sbp> s/by talking people/by talking here/
16:06:50 <sbp> of course, we could just refer some of the conversation back to #rdfig
16:10:47 <sbp> okay, chumped it:
16:10:48 <sbp> http://rdfig.xmlhack.com/2004/08/07/2004-08-07.html#1091894851.347353
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16:11:49 <GiovanniT> please add a note the algorithm aproach is called RDFGrowth .. the "hyper" comes becouse that's the uber 0 demo of its usage inside the "HyperLeadning" project
16:12:06 <jetscreamer> *** jetscreamer has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
16:13:44 <sbp`> done
16:15:12 <Arnia> I wonder where Mikey is :/
16:15:30 <sbp> ooze Mikey? eaon?
16:16:24 <Arnia> Yeah
16:21:30 <crschmidt> .g DNS registration
16:21:47 <phenny> DNS registration: http://www.dns.net/dnsrd/registration.html
16:22:14 <Arnia> .g dns-sd iana freenet
16:22:16 <phenny> dns-sd iana freenet: sorry, no results were found.
16:22:17 <crschmidt> .g CC content
16:22:20 <phenny> CC content: http://www.warblogs.cc/
16:22:24 <crschmidt> Hm.
16:29:12 <sbp> #idlerpg *** idlejc has joined #idlerpg
16:29:12 <sbp> #idlerpg <idlejc> blah
16:29:12 <sbp> #idlerpg <IdleBot> jc, the level 44 he of the 112-day uptime, is now online from nickname idlejc. Next level in 1 days, 03:15:40.
16:29:25 <sbp> I guess jc's character class is now a misnomer
16:30:09 <jsled-laptop> heh.
16:31:43 <Arnia> mm... I need to thank you again jsled-laptop. Yay REST ;)
16:31:52 <jsled-laptop> :)
16:33:45 <crschmidt> not really.
16:33:59 <crschmidt> The 112 day uptime was before ;)
16:34:04 <Arnia> I like this REST-with-model-urls idea. Combined with RDF Diff its so much more elegent than RPC/CORBA systems... and it works very well with ZeroConf (very handy for my usecases)
16:34:09 <crschmidt> And he was upset because my hub died last night, forcing his connection to die.
16:34:39 <sbp> oh you know him? heh
16:34:45 <crschmidt> yep ;)
16:34:50 <jsled-laptop> Arnia: so, have you seen RDFForms, then?
16:35:09 <crschmidt> idlejc [~jc@dslv-1-137.MV.COM] , crschmidt [~crschmidt@dslv-1-137.mv.com]
16:35:27 <sbp> ooh
16:35:37 <jsled-laptop> heh
16:35:42 <jsled-laptop> _that_ jc, then. :)
16:35:57 <Arnia> jsled-laptop: A while ago... let me read up again :)
16:36:47 <sbp> this network is so inbred. just the other day I went into a channel almost entirely at random (it really was nothing that should've had any connection as far as I can tell with any Freenode people that I know) and there were two users on it that I knew. I just sorta said "okay then..." and walked slowly away
16:37:03 <sbp> those were the only two users, note
16:37:25 <Arnia> sbp: I find people on gimpnet from freenode channels... that's always fun :p
16:37:35 <Arnia> I think OSS is inbred
16:37:38 <sbp> heh. "you're cheating on Freenode!"
16:37:50 <sbp> "wait! so am I!"
16:38:02 <jsled-laptop> heh
16:39:32 <Arnia> * Arnia waves the book under sbp's nose threateningly
16:53:37 <MoiraA> anybody else finding yahoo doesn't load?
16:56:46 <jsled-laptop> hmm... has anyone done anything with string resolution using p2p networks?
16:57:42 <jsled-laptop> like ... if I type "ibm" into my browser...
16:57:52 <jsled-laptop> and it distributes the request through my p2p network..
16:58:15 <jsled-laptop> where each node can influence what URL the strings resolve to.
16:58:15 <Arnia> I don't think it makes sense
16:58:41 <Arnia> Dead-text has no meaning to RDF... maybe with a predicate *shrugs*
16:58:47 <Arnia> * Arnia is weird
16:59:03 <jsled-laptop> oh no ... forget about RDF for a second.
16:59:21 <Arnia> Oh, ok.
16:59:31 <jsled-laptop> you remember when outfits tried to commercialize the "string" -> URL resolution procedure
16:59:39 <Arnia> Yeah
16:59:41 <jsled-laptop> [in the same way AOL keywords worked?]
16:59:56 <jsled-laptop> so if you typed "music" in, they'd control what site you went to?
17:00:02 <Arnia> Yeah
17:00:28 <jsled-laptop> So ... what if that resolution was done via p2p.
17:00:47 <jsled-laptop> so, everyone could "vote" for what the resolution should be.
17:01:01 <jsled-laptop> I guess they can, via page rank.
17:01:02 <jsled-laptop> hmm.
17:01:09 <crschmidt> Hm, datum is still in #creativecommons?
17:02:50 <crschmidt> isn't phenny datum's replacement?
17:03:05 <sbp> she is
17:04:06 <sbp> datum's still around those, and phenny wasn't originally intended to be used anywhere but #swhack and maybe #sbp
17:04:18 <sbp> er, though (but "those" is good too)
17:05:19 <Arnia> jsled-laptop: Interesting
17:06:10 <Arnia> (the RDFForms stuff)
17:06:23 <jsled-laptop> oh. not my first-order googlewhacking idea.
17:06:23 <jsled-laptop> fine.
17:07:07 <jsled-laptop> it's always the same way with you people.
17:07:12 <jsled-laptop> I bring up mutliple ideas.
17:07:14 <Arnia> * Arnia hands you some chocolate
17:07:19 <jsled-laptop> and then you either ignore them all.
17:07:29 <jsled-laptop> or only like a strict subset.
17:07:38 <crschmidt> sbp: ah.
17:07:59 <jsled-laptop> and when you do, they're not even my ideas.
17:09:36 <Arnia> * Arnia hands jsled-laptop more chocolate
17:10:05 <jsled-laptop> heh
17:10:51 <Arnia> * Arnia doesn't believe in *the* semantic web
17:11:18 <jsled-laptop> heh ... i didn't realize I come up on a search for RDFForms.
17:11:31 <Arnia> I believe in lots of 'ad-hoc' semantic webs formed by friends and collegues
17:26:07 <CaptSolo> *** CaptSolo has quit (Remote closed the connection)
17:26:13 <CaptSolo> *** CaptSolo (captsolo@kaste.lv) has joined #swhack
17:33:17 <sh1mmer> * sh1mmer nukes Arnia
17:33:19 <phenny> sh1mmer: 15:13Z <Arnia> tell sh1mmer you may be interested in reading the discussion from just before http://swhack.com/logs/2004-08-07#T15-13-02 on
17:33:27 <sh1mmer> * sh1mmer nukes phenny
17:37:49 <CaptSolo> *** CaptSolo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
17:38:38 <bjoern_> *** bjoern_ has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
17:42:15 <sh1mmer> http://www.zen-style.com/
17:42:18 <sh1mmer> * sh1mmer chuckles
17:42:20 <CaptSolo> *** CaptSolo (captsolo@kaste.lv) has joined #swhack
17:43:44 <sh1mmer> "holy matharon, I am getting a stich batman!" "lets hope its a stich in time, which will save the world council members"
17:43:53 <sh1mmer> original batman movie. genius
17:43:59 <jsled-laptop> heh. "Nokia"
17:44:54 <sh1mmer> I am amused by England the size of Europe
17:47:08 <sbp> Fool's World Map (via sh1mmer): http://www.zen-style.com/
17:47:09 <swhacker> posted 534
17:49:04 <sh1mmer> how is sbp?
17:49:05 <sbp> the USA needs to swell to double its size though
17:49:15 <sh1mmer> yeah indeed
17:49:17 <sbp> sbp is wondering how sh1mmer is. how is sh1mmer?
17:49:37 <sbp> MAET BEGX0RZ
17:49:41 <sbp> so great
17:50:57 <sh1mmer> I am alright
17:51:03 <kandinski> so am I
17:51:06 <sh1mmer> Had a nice lunch and a few pints in my fav bar.
17:51:08 <kandinski> the kids are alright
17:51:27 <kandinski> I had a nice lunch and two pints with my friend Victoria
17:51:33 <sh1mmer> being amused by c5 and the original (60s) batman movies
17:51:54 <jsled-laptop> I'm waiting for GF to get back to go have a few pints over lunch...
17:52:04 <jsled-laptop> * jsled-laptop taps foot impatiently.
17:55:41 <sh1mmer> POW!
17:55:41 <kandinski> heh
17:55:43 <sh1mmer> WHAP!
17:55:51 <sh1mmer> man that batman can go
17:55:53 <Arnia> NUKE!
17:56:00 <kandinski> according to a review of David Foster Wallace, "factoid" was coined by Norman Mailer
17:56:06 <Arnia> Batman meets Dr Strangelove
17:56:12 <sh1mmer> KLONK!
17:56:15 <sh1mmer> best one yet
17:56:15 <kandinski> or at least that is what I understood
17:57:48 <laplink> *** laplink (~link@gprs-ggsn1-nat.mobil.telenor.no) has joined #swhack
17:58:02 <kandinski> http://www.boston.com/ae/books/articles/2004/08/05/lobster_tale_lands_writer_in_hot_water/
17:58:17 <kandinski> someday I will get my own factoid collection right
17:59:17 <Arnia> A factoid ontology?
17:59:38 <kandinski> I like the other meaning of "factoid"
17:59:52 <kandinski> the "useles but true" rather than the "distorted and false" fact
17:59:58 <Arnia> [ a fct:Factoid; fct:heardFrom [ a foaf:Person ] ]
18:02:00 <jsled-laptop> fct:asserter a owl:ObjectProperty; rdfs:domain rdfs:Statement; rdfs:range foaf:Person.
18:02:17 <sh1mmer> Isn't it handy that batman had a "super moleculer dust seperator" when he needed to seperate some dust!!
18:03:11 <Arnia> jsled-laptop: Should be rei:Formula
18:03:22 <Arnia> (rather than rdfs:Statement
18:03:51 <jsled-laptop> what's a Formula?
18:04:04 <jsled-laptop> what's rei: ?
18:04:11 <Arnia> {} fct:asserter [ foaf:mbox <mailto:tcroucher@example.com> ]
18:04:30 <Arnia> Reification schema for notation 3
18:04:54 <sh1mmer> Arnia we need to write up phone conversatin
18:05:08 <sh1mmer> oh and thanks for the chocolate
18:05:17 <Arnia> yeah...
18:06:10 <jsled-laptop> btw, anyone have a good bookmark manager?
18:06:46 <kandinski> jsled, me interested too
18:07:02 <kandinski> in the next weeks I will be importing my old internet explorer bookmarks
18:07:11 <kandinski> and exporting them to del.icious
18:07:14 <kandinski> as an experiment
18:07:35 <kandinski> bilingual people on the channel: how to categorise your bookmarks?
18:07:58 <kandinski> I am using the following kind of keywords:
18:08:17 <kandinski> spanish español games juegos money dinero blah bla drivel nadería
18:08:32 <jsled-laptop> kandinski: http://update.mozilla.org/extensions/showlist.php?type=E&application=firefox&category=Bookmarks&numpg=
18:08:45 <kandinski> because I can not settle on using English keywords for Spanish content
18:08:53 <kandinski> or vice-versa, even
18:09:41 <kandinski> which one are you recommending, jsled?
18:10:37 <kandinski> I remember in the introduction to the semantic web thing in Madrid the mexican guy showed us how amaya can put a bookmark in several cathegories
18:10:40 <kandinski> categories
18:10:59 <laplink> *** laplink has quit ("Leaving")
18:12:27 <sbp> factward
18:12:35 <sbp> factwardicity
18:12:41 <sbp> infactification
18:12:53 <jsled-laptop> factwad!
18:13:48 <Arnia> { ... } fct:debunkedBy [ a foaf:Person ]
18:13:50 <jsled-laptop> hmm. anyone ever use IBM's personal web proxy?
18:13:52 <sh1mmer> sbp I am infactuated with you
18:13:53 <sh1mmer> :P
18:14:23 <jsled-laptop> yah ... WBI, as deusx remembers.
18:14:57 <deusx> * deusx 's ears burn.
18:15:35 <jsled-laptop> sorry
18:16:02 <jsled-laptop> you'd started to do a PWP in python ... why'd you stop?
18:16:18 <kandinski> don't mock me
18:16:37 <kandinski> I might sufer from an infaction
18:16:42 <kandinski> suffer
18:16:50 <deusx> Got bored and started writing an aggregator. Though, I have vague plans to pick it up again
18:16:55 <jsled-laptop> kandinski: not recommending any of those; they all look like ass.
18:16:55 <sh1mmer> kandinski get fact
18:17:08 <jsled-laptop> sh1mmer: go fact yourself.
18:17:22 <deusx> What I had so far is in my CVS, though, fwiw: http://www.decafbad.com/cvs/dbproxy/
18:17:30 <deusx> It's likely way out of date with respect to Twisted, though
18:17:51 <deusx> And in Java, there's: http://www.decafbad.com/cvs/AgentFrank/
18:19:58 <laplink> *** laplink (~link@gprs-ggsn1-nat.mobil.telenor.no) has joined #swhack
18:20:49 <kandinski> you so crool
18:21:03 <kandinski> seriusly, though
18:21:12 <kandinski> I would like to have my categories folded
18:21:29 <kandinski> so whether I look for games or juegos, the same links show up
18:21:43 <kandinski> and on my page only one of the two categories appear
18:22:01 <kandinski> but I can categorise whatever way I want
18:22:26 <kandinski> and people who want only links in Spanish can do juegos` or somesuch
18:22:48 <kandinski> and get juegos but not games
18:23:00 <kandinski> please bother to shot down this idea
18:23:12 <sbp> yo ma man but its like wot we say in ma country bro, first yo gets da money, then yo gets da honies
18:23:26 <jsled-laptop> kandinski: that's a good idea.
18:23:32 <kandinski> if you think it is worth shooting it down
18:23:36 <kandinski> jsled, I hate you
18:23:39 <jsled-laptop> kandinski: hah
18:23:48 <kandinski> shoot!
18:24:03 <laplink> *blam*
18:24:06 <kandinski> I haff da honies a'reddy,man!
18:24:23 <kandinski> mon! mon! i said moN!
18:24:31 <sbp> yammon
18:24:38 <sbp> so what is up everyone
18:24:57 <sbp> it dunarf get around a bit, that so what
18:26:22 <kandinski> somdei i g00eel estart espíkin laik i am aktuali espánish
18:26:23 <laplink> @ outfilter Babel x2
18:26:28 <supybot> laplink: Error: You don't have the '#swhack,op' capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.
18:26:42 <sbp> hehe
18:26:48 <sbp> @outfilter babel x2
18:26:52 <supybot> sbp: Error: That's not a valid filter command.
18:26:55 <laplink> @supybot--
18:27:00 <sbp> @outfilter leet
18:27:04 <supybot> 5bp: 7h3 0p3r@!0n 5ucc33d3d.
18:27:10 <sbp> OMG ROFFAL
18:27:12 <kandinski> guith lots of mani g00d essampols of de espánis athent
18:27:37 <kandinski> ath-ehnt
18:27:55 <kandinski> ai loff de english g00men
18:28:03 <kandinski> dei are so -- drunk
18:28:12 <kandinski> ai meen, dei are so drank!
18:28:37 <sbp> ooh iz zees madmaaen? ze womehn are not "drunk" zhey are drueeernk
18:28:38 <kandinski> ai ai ai, is dificoolt, to spiking inglis laik dis
18:29:16 <kandinski> deux can play ze game ov smoozhness, mon ami
18:29:57 <kandinski> zhe women, zhey are beeg, and strong
18:30:21 <kandinski> and gueadee fog love
18:30:24 <laplink> And will thump you upside the head if you pul that one?
18:30:31 <kandinski> naa, not usually
18:30:51 <sbp> gueadee fog love?
18:30:52 <kandinski> unless you find their name on a card in a phone booth and pay them to do it
18:30:56 <sbp> oh, got it
18:31:14 <kandinski> how would you write the French velar "r"
18:31:16 <kandinski> ?
18:31:25 <sbp> hmm
18:31:35 <sbp> forh
18:31:53 <kandinski> 'oggibold, 'oggible, zey wegge
18:32:05 <sbp> heh
18:32:14 <kandinski> or "oghibol, zey weghe"
18:32:20 <laplink> Now he's doing Birmingham?
18:32:23 <sbp> *** sbp has changed the topic to: <kandinski> 'oggibold, 'oggible, zey wegge
18:32:29 <ear1grey> * ear1grey wonders what the sw *really* stands for.
18:32:30 <kandinski> ah
18:32:41 <sbp> it's starting to look a little like Middle English
18:32:42 <kandinski> * kandinski drops his hands in despair
18:32:44 <kandinski> bah
18:32:45 <sh1mmer> its pronounced Brum
18:32:56 <sbp> Brummie if you're being particularly formal
18:33:04 <sh1mmer> only posh southerners call it "Birmingham"
18:33:12 <kandinski> no, beecos zey wegue byooteefool!
18:33:19 <sbp> no, they say Brummie too
18:33:31 <sbp> well, of the people
18:33:39 <sbp> they call the place Birmingham, that is true
18:33:41 <kandinski> I believe Brummies say stuff like "sumthink" instead of "something"
18:33:58 <laplink> * laplink suspect the locals call it "`am", but...
18:33:58 <sbp> that occurs a lot over the south
18:34:09 <sbp> ermngmn
18:34:11 <kandinski> In college there was a book called "learn yourself Geordie"
18:34:22 <sbp> "Can't wait to get back to ermngmn"
18:34:31 <kandinski> lovely book, I read it for my geography of England class
18:34:48 <kandinski> fun as hell, and insightful too
18:35:09 <sh1mmer> kandinski not around here there isnt
18:35:17 <kandinski> why
18:35:19 <sh1mmer> * sh1mmer wouldnt call a Mackem a Gordie
18:35:24 <sh1mmer> bad for your health
18:35:27 <kandinski> is it not fun, not funny, and not insightful?
18:35:40 <kandinski> written by a self-described Gordie
18:35:54 <kandinski> sh1mmer, where did you say you hail from?
18:35:54 <Arnia> Never ever describe a mackem as a geordie
18:35:58 <Arnia> * Arnia shudders
18:35:59 <sh1mmer> kandinski right, but never ever call a Geordie a Mackem
18:36:00 <sbp> you know, even though it's not my native accent, I think Brummie accents are the easiest for me to understand
18:36:03 <sh1mmer> or vice versa
18:36:13 <sh1mmer> * sh1mmer is from the north of notts
18:36:17 <kandinski> Newcastle is not Geordie?
18:36:24 <sh1mmer> bit south of Sheffield
18:36:28 <sh1mmer> Newcastle is Geordie
18:36:28 <kandinski> * kandinski has a feeling he is missing something
18:36:34 <kandinski> ah, that is what I meant
18:36:34 <sh1mmer> Sunderland is Mackem
18:36:39 <sbp> I guess the normal features of it are what'd be considered accentuated or effected in mine
18:36:50 <kandinski> I jumped from Brums to Geordie as examples
18:36:52 <Arnia> Newcastle is Geordie, but there are about 6 accents in the cities around newcastle which don't like being mistaken
18:36:59 <sbp> yeah, I'm still in the midlands
18:37:02 <kandinski> ah, that is tugh
18:37:07 <laplink> Beer?
18:37:15 <kandinski> but from a distance, they do sound different
18:37:19 <sbp> Beer?
18:37:19 <kandinski> same thing in Spain
18:37:26 <laplink> Beer!
18:37:35 <kandinski> you mistake a Navarro for an Aragonés, there will be trubbol
18:37:40 <kandinski> beer is good
18:37:44 <sbp> well I can't argue with that assertion. just wondering to what it's apropos
18:37:46 <Arnia> Geordie, Mackem, Durham, Monkeyhangers, Smoggies, Darlo
18:38:06 <sbp> Monkeyhangers: ha!
18:38:18 <sbp> I think I told that story on here once
18:39:09 <sbp> hmm, can't find it in the backlogs
18:39:25 <kandinski> beer is always apropos
18:39:31 <kandinski> beer!=non-sequitur
18:39:38 <kandinski> beer==non-non-sequitur
18:39:44 <kandinski> beer=sequitur
18:39:47 <kandinski> beer always follows
18:39:50 <kandinski> beer!
18:39:53 <kandinski> BEER!
18:40:02 <kandinski> * kandinski changes his nick to "beer"
18:40:04 <sh1mmer> you should use secuters after beer
18:40:04 <laplink> Beer.
18:40:08 <kandinski> <Beer> I will not be had
18:40:10 <sh1mmer> er shouldnt
18:40:20 <kandinski> <beer> not this time
18:40:27 <laplink> *** laplink is now known as beer
18:40:28 <kandinski> *beer changes his name to kandinski
18:40:33 <beer> * beer is good!
18:40:38 <kandinski> it is!
18:40:40 <beer> *** beer is now known as laplink
18:40:43 <sh1mmer> *** sh1mmer is now known as we
18:40:47 <we> * we drink beer
18:41:02 <sbp> The Hartlepool Monkey (oh yes): http://www.thisishartlepool.co.uk/history/thehartlepoolmonkey.asp
18:41:02 <swhacker> posted 535
18:41:15 <sbp> the funniest thing about it is that they thought the monkey was a Frenchman
18:41:25 <we> *** we is now known as sh1mmer
18:41:28 <laplink> And it wasn't?
18:41:34 <sh1mmer> right, and the english men spies
18:42:03 <jsled-laptop> speaking of beer; gf is back and I'm thirsty. later, gents
18:42:09 <sbp> well it was never ascertained; didn't speak before the gallows
18:42:15 <sbp> enjoy, jsled
18:42:18 <sh1mmer> you see that isn't the story I know
18:42:20 <jsled-laptop> cheers.
18:42:33 <jsled-laptop> *** jsled-laptop has quit ("Leaving")
18:42:34 <sbp> what's your variation?
18:42:46 <sh1mmer> I was told that two men came ashore in a row boat with a money, and the fishermen thought they were trators and the monkey a French spy
18:43:20 <sh1mmer> It was aparently due to some propoganda at the time which wittly showed the French as monkies
18:43:22 <sbp> hmm
18:43:44 <Arnia> sh1mmer: hear that from hartlepoolers by any chance? :)
18:43:52 <sbp> heheh
18:44:08 <sh1mmer> however it doesn't remove the fact that the ignorant yokles of hartlepool hanged a monkey
18:44:12 <sh1mmer> Arnia some of it
18:44:38 <sh1mmer> Arnia although I do believe the propoganda of the day did indeed portray the French as monkies
18:44:50 <Arnia> No wonder the north-east was effectively a separate country until 1836 :p
18:45:03 <sh1mmer> hehe
18:45:10 <Arnia> Its just a pity they locked all of us with Hartlepoole
18:45:24 <Arnia> Durham, Sunderland etc are not to blame for them
18:45:25 <Arnia> ;)
18:45:25 <sbp> did William IV invade them then?
18:46:05 <sh1mmer> Arnia why would you choose to to associate yourself with Sunderland.
18:46:08 <sh1mmer> just cos I live here
18:46:18 <laplink> .cp neutrino
18:46:20 <phenny> Sorry, no results found for 'neutrino'.
18:46:32 <laplink> .cp anti
18:46:34 <phenny> 0FC0: TIBETAN CANTILLATION SIGN HEAVY BEAT (࿀)
18:46:37 <phenny> 0FC1: TIBETAN CANTILLATION SIGN LIGHT BEAT (࿁)
18:46:38 <sh1mmer> The Sunderland city moto is "Don't give up, it's not as bad as it seems." Which says it all really.
18:46:38 <Arnia> 1836 was when the last of the Prince Bishops, Palantine rulers, died and the area was absorbed into the UK
18:46:40 <phenny> 0FC2: TIBETAN CANTILLATION SIGN CANG TE-U (࿂) [...]
18:46:57 <sbp> ooh, could this presign the coming of a site?
18:47:32 <laplink> Or possibly someone on unicode-l looking for an "anti-neutrino" character...
18:47:35 <sbp> .synonym portent
18:47:37 <phenny> portent synonyms: augury, bodement, boding, caution, clue, foreboding, foreshadowing, foretoken, funny feeling, harbinger, hunch, indication, omen, premonition, presage, presentiment, prognostic, prognostication, sign,
18:47:41 <phenny> portent synonyms: sinking feeling, threat, vibes, warning
18:48:12 <Arnia> .antonym portent
18:48:29 <sbp> I quite like presign. good little invention, though I'm still not really sure what I was after
18:48:33 <Arnia> * Arnia shrugs
18:48:43 <laplink> U+03BD U+0304; greek char nu with macron, apparently.
18:49:11 <Arnia> Did you know Durham's court system was only integrated with the rest of England's in the seventies
18:49:16 <sbp> portend or presage, perhaps. adumbrate is rather cool though
18:49:20 <sbp> nope
18:49:21 <laplink> .cp greek*nu
18:49:23 <phenny> Sorry, no results found for 'greek*nu'.
18:49:35 <sbp> .cp greek.*nu
18:49:36 <phenny> 0374: GREEK NUMERAL SIGN (ʹ)
18:49:40 <phenny> 0375: GREEK LOWER NUMERAL SIGN (͵)
18:49:43 <phenny> 039D: GREEK CAPITAL LETTER NU (Ν) [...]
18:49:49 <laplink> .cp combining macron
18:49:51 <phenny> 0304: COMBINING MACRON (̄)
18:49:54 <phenny> 0331: COMBINING MACRON BELOW (̱)
18:50:28 <sbp> sounds right anyway. no space betwixt them though
18:50:44 <sbp> .cp 03BD
18:50:47 <phenny> 039D: GREEK CAPITAL LETTER NU (Ν)
18:50:49 <phenny> 03BD: GREEK SMALL LETTER NU (ν)
18:50:53 <sbp> should be lower case too
18:50:53 <laplink> .cp 03BD
18:50:55 <phenny> 039D: GREEK CAPITAL LETTER NU (Ν)
18:50:58 <phenny> 03BD: GREEK SMALL LETTER NU (ν)
18:50:59 <sbp> oh, it is
18:51:15 <sbp> .pc ν̄
18:51:17 <phenny> 03BD: GREEK SMALL LETTER NU (ν)
18:51:20 <phenny> 0304: COMBINING MACRON (̄)
18:51:35 <laplink> phenny, you're bloody slow today.
18:52:19 <laplink> * laplink wanders off for a barbeque whilst waiting...
18:52:22 <sbp> she's rather slow a lot lately
18:52:27 <Arnia> Needs a turkish bath
18:52:49 <sbp> * sbp runs the logs through encnorm to see the small nu with combining macron above
18:53:19 <sbp> hmm
18:53:30 <sbp> combining macron below combined with the *next* character in Firefox
18:53:35 <sbp> i.e. the closing paren
18:59:03 <deltab> mmm, toast with combining mackerel above
19:11:10 <sbp> heh, heh
19:11:24 <Amaya> *** Amaya (~amaya@217.Red-217-126-176.pooles.rima-tde.net) has joined #swhack
19:11:24 <Monty> But what does Amaya have to do with the price of fish?
19:11:27 <phenny> Hush there, Monty.
19:11:32 <kandinski> Amaya, bienvenida a #swhack! This is a publically logged channe
19:11:33 <Monty> They get into .. cooperative graph sharing process should implement the PRACTICAL system and this is wonderful.
19:11:53 <kandinski> channel, so don't say anything that may ruin your future political career
19:11:58 <kandinski> (or mine)
19:12:12 <Amaya> kandinski :)
19:12:21 <kandinski> #swhack, meet my friend Amaya; Amaya, these are #swhack
19:12:34 <Amaya> nice to meet you!
19:13:30 <GiovanniT> hi there
19:13:38 <ear1grey> hello amaya, i dropped in earlier today, and this place is strangely like a road accident, i just can't help but watch.
19:13:48 <kandinski> the voiced ones are bots
19:13:56 <kandinski> some of them useful, some of them Monty
19:13:57 <Monty> ueber
19:14:15 <ear1grey> giovanni: just got the code *almost* working - will post to SF in about 1 hour
19:14:29 <GiovanniT> erl :-)))
19:14:37 <sh1mmer> Monty play the fiddle for kandinski
19:14:39 <Monty> castrates glibc gibbon-like UNIX, apparently.
19:15:02 <GiovanniT> erl: great.. add those nicks as developers if you can thx
19:16:01 <ear1grey> * ear1grey stars blankly in confusion. refactoring 17 eclipse plugins in one day has taken it's toll.
19:16:22 <GiovanniT> erl: congrats. i have to refactor my stuff and i am scared
19:18:04 <ear1grey> gio: the good news is i'm a litle more au fait with the 3.0 plugin.xml & manifest relationships now... i think i just got my brown belt, so i'll be able to talk you through.
19:19:41 <GiovanniT> \o/
19:23:13 <sbp> Amaya! welcome to Swhack. we've heard a lot about you, all of it good
19:23:34 <Arnia> Aside from the stuff Monty told us
19:23:38 <Monty> if (rash == behaviour) { stickers stocks extra-marital bumps;}
19:23:43 <Arnia> But we ignore Monty :p
19:23:43 <Monty> Tell me more about that.
19:23:56 <sbp> Monty: we ignore you on the grounds of you being an insane bot
19:24:01 <Monty> htp://www.ntk.net the comp's speakers and he could allow use case, your lucky she won!
19:24:08 <sbp> you're
19:24:42 <sbp> also, I totally run debian
19:24:45 <sbp> just incidentally
19:24:51 <sbp> I even converted d8uv
19:25:16 <kandinski> Amaya and I are working on my ssh woes, our attention might be kind of on and off
19:25:27 <sbp> okay, no probbers
19:26:01 <kandinski> in fact, she must be assembling some IKEA forniture, for her attention to my ssh woes is also kind of on and off
19:26:06 <kandinski> * kandinski waves
19:26:13 <kandinski> or something
19:28:50 <Amaya> I'm actually watching "the piano", sorry kand*
19:29:16 <kandinski> what a dilemma
19:29:30 <kandinski> Keitel's Surly Silence of my Vibrant Voice?
19:31:32 <eaon> *** eaon (~mememe@chello213047096087.6.12.vie.surfer.at) has joined #swhack
20:16:11 <laplink> * laplink would take Keitel any day...
20:16:12 <laplink> That dude is the definition of a Bad Motherfucker!
20:17:01 <kandinski> laplink, you take Keitel
20:17:07 <kandinski> I take myself
20:17:22 <kandinski> he is the definition of a Bad Liutenant
20:17:56 <laplink> Yeah. I've got the DVD sitting here for viewing at a suitable moment. Excellent.
20:25:52 <sh1mmer> * sh1mmer munches fish
20:25:55 <sh1mmer> nummy :)
20:28:06 <kandinski> ok, ssh troubles solved!
20:28:10 <sbp> cool
20:28:16 <Amaya> easy one!
20:28:54 <kandinski> we have also solved world hunger, the war between the sexes, perpetual motion and hair loss
20:29:18 <Amaya> me wonders what use hosts.deny is of these days
20:29:19 <sbp> * sbp suddenly realises he's going to have to be careful not to talk about Amaya-the-HTML-authoring-application in a derogatory manner without disambiguation
20:29:37 <kandinski> but the buffers of this IRC client are to small to contain those solutions
20:29:41 <Amaya> sbp I'm quite used, no worries
20:29:47 <sh1mmer> i was about to wonder if Amaya is anythign to do with Chaals
20:29:51 <kandinski> yes, the other day you said something about your Amaya writing
20:30:00 <kandinski> it is a popular name in the Basque country
20:30:12 <sh1mmer> he always talks about how much he loves Amaya
20:30:18 <Amaya> Only it's spelled Amaia there
20:30:25 <kandinski> and somewhat less popular in the rest of Spain, but also common
20:30:30 <sbp> yeah, I've been collecting notes. "I was finding Amaya very useful for editing extremely large documents such as XAG and EARL where counting nesting was getting rather difficult." - http://inamidst.com/notes/amaya
20:30:53 <ptet> *** ptet (~chatzilla@cpc4-stoc5-3-0-cust65.midd.cable.ntl.com) has joined #swhack
20:31:02 <sh1mmer> ptet meet sbp
20:31:13 <sh1mmer> you have both had forwarning ;)
20:31:18 <sbp> it's basque then? does it have a certain meaning, etymology?
20:31:20 <kandinski> well, Amaya is very useful for diagnosing and fixing ssh woes related to reverse resolution
20:31:26 <ptet> me Wave at sbp
20:31:29 <kandinski> or inverse resolution
20:31:38 <sbp> hi ptet. publicly logged, political career destruction risk, etc.
20:31:49 <sh1mmer> sbp that was a lazy one Sean
20:31:51 <Amaya> sbp, I'm reading the notes, lol the annoyances in amaya could very well be mine!!!
20:32:15 <Amaya> sbp yes, it's either earth or queen or something I can't remember
20:32:21 <sbp> you use the application too? heh, it must be weird to shout out "bloody Amaya--pile of crap!" when it crashes (as it often does) :-)
20:32:29 <sbp> fair enough
20:32:52 <kandinski> that is Basque for you
20:32:57 <kandinski> most surnames are toponyms
20:33:10 <kandinski> and most names are highly placed beings
20:33:13 <kandinski> Aitor means God
20:33:21 <kandinski> teh God, no less
20:33:23 <Amaya> sbp, no I don't but I also jitter about when selecting text (lol)
20:33:29 <kandinski> TEH Good
20:33:31 <kandinski> heh
20:34:02 <sbp> heh, heh
20:34:32 <kandinski> so Amaya also let me inherit her old Athlon 1200 CPU
20:34:34 <kandinski> w00t!
20:34:43 <kandinski> I will be fixing my desktop in no time!
20:34:53 <Amaya> kandinski my old laptop died today
20:35:02 <Amaya> the hard drive is gone
20:35:04 <kandinski> (ah, and I found my thermal paste from installing my godchildren's computer)
20:35:13 <kandinski> sorry to hear
20:35:16 <Amaya> I have turned it off for the first time in years
20:35:31 <kandinski> one more reason for getting an ibook
20:35:49 <Amaya> no, i need black hardware instead :P
20:36:04 <kandinski> an ibook and a can of black spraypaint=
20:36:12 <kandinski> goth-modding
20:36:21 <laplink> .g "black hardware"
20:36:22 <Amaya> and a real keyboard + mouse :-X
20:36:23 <phenny> "black hardware": http://www.channelu.com/NeXT/Black/
20:36:41 <sbp> .gc goth-modding
20:36:46 <phenny> no results found.
20:37:26 <kandinski> well, now we have a winner
20:37:35 <Amaya> "black hardware": http://www.ibm.com/thinkpad/
20:37:45 <kandinski> in a few days, searches for goth-modding will lead to today's logs
20:37:54 <laplink> Another nipple addict?
20:38:17 <kandinski> yes, just as "gay BSD": http://www.apple.com/OSX/
20:38:24 <laplink> Speaking of... WHere /is/ JibberJim these days?
20:38:39 <kandinski> laplink, some of the new thinkpads have touchpads
20:38:52 <kandinski> such as the T41-T42 that Amaya lusts after
20:39:49 <sbp> yeah, I was wondering that earlier
20:39:57 <laplink> "Nipple vs. Pad" is the new "Emacs vs. vi"?
20:40:02 <sbp> I think he said he was going to Italy last time I saw him around
20:40:07 <sbp> .seen JibberJim
20:40:12 <phenny> JibberJim seen in #swhack saying: [ .gc platipussies ] ~ 6 day(s) 21 hr(s) 30 min(s) 57 sec(s) ago
20:40:16 <sbp> .seen JimJibber
20:40:21 <phenny> JimJibber seen in #swhack saying: [ I think it'll be good, using words like "you're stuffed" ] ~ 8 day(s) 2 hr(s) 45 min(s) 46 sec(s) ago
20:40:39 <sbp> perhaps the platipussies caught up with him
20:40:50 <laplink> Wasn't he going somewhere over your parts kandinski?
20:41:21 <Amaya> kandinski does laplink laplink mean the clit when he says the nipple?
20:41:23 <kandinski> not that I remember
20:41:25 <kandinski> yep
20:41:29 <Amaya> ok
20:41:32 <kandinski> he is not a woman, evidently
20:41:37 <Amaya> jejeje
20:41:56 <laplink> * laplink files that little nugget away for future reference... :-)
20:42:05 <laplink> To each (gener) its own fixation... :-)
20:42:11 <Amaya> In spain they have always been called clits, i never heard of the nipple aception XD
20:42:13 <laplink> Or "gender" even.
20:42:26 <sbp> they've been called that in general usage?
20:42:27 <kandinski> mini SNotD, courtesy of Amaya
20:42:34 <kandinski> not in ads or stuff
20:42:37 <sbp> "nipple" is a common and acceptable word here...
20:42:40 <laplink> Me neither, I must admit. Jim's the one that brought it up.
20:42:44 <kandinski> but everybody says "el clitorín"
20:42:50 <laplink> I've always called them erasers. *shrug*
20:42:55 <kandinski> "the small clit"
20:42:57 <Amaya> clit is a copmmon and acceptable word around me XD
20:43:03 <kandinski> or the "mini-joystic"
20:43:05 <sbp> intriguing
20:43:18 <Amaya> yes, I love that one
20:43:19 <kandinski> yes, she uses "nipple" as a superlative
20:43:26 <sbp> joystick/clitoín--same ballpark
20:43:35 <sbp> add "r" to taste
20:43:41 <kandinski> s/joystic/joistick(
20:44:15 <kandinski> Amaya: SNotD means "Spanish Nugget of the Day": object lessons in Spanish for English-speakers of the lingua-geek persuasion
20:44:21 <kandinski> some days useful, some days not
20:44:26 <kandinski> always chanantes
20:45:24 <kandinski> i think http://swhack.com/tail/(?i)kandinski.*SNotD will give you most of them
20:45:34 <kandinski> save the early ones, when they were called nuggets
20:45:50 <kandinski> but maybe http://swhack.com/tail/(?i)kandinski.*nugget will help you there
20:45:57 <sbp> try not to pollute the results by adding the URIs to the logs
20:46:06 <kandinski> anything before april... ah, damn
20:46:17 <sbp> that's why I stopped .swhack
20:46:19 <kandinski> so Amaya, if you want to be off-log, you can do this:
20:46:45 <kandinski> # neither will this
20:46:49 <kandinski> see?
20:46:52 <sbp> # yes it will
20:46:58 <kandinski> ah, wrong
20:47:07 <kandinski> heh
20:47:13 <sbp> [[[
20:47:13 <sbp> 20:46:19 <kandinski> so Amaya, if you want to be off-log, you can do this:
20:47:14 <sbp> 20:46:45 <kandinski> # neither will this
20:47:14 <sbp> 20:46:49 <kandinski> see?
20:47:14 <sbp> 20:46:52 <sbp> # yes it will
20:47:18 <swhacker> *** swhacker has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
20:47:19 <sbp> ]]] - http://swhack.com/logs/latest
20:47:41 <swhacker> *** swhacker (nobody@vorpal.notabug.com) has joined #swhack
20:47:41 <Monty> But what does swhacker have to do with the price of fish?
20:47:43 <phenny> Hush there, Monty.
20:47:44 <kandinski> * kandinski is transported back to the Jane Austen incident
20:47:47 <sbp> which also shows you a) where the latest logs are kept (the rest are in ./), and b) the swhacker bot, which is our little blogging device. it blogs to http://swhack.com/weblog/
20:47:48 <Monty> frosted strange aubergines has sex with USB novel and gay configured passages!
20:47:50 <sbp> to post:
20:47:57 <sbp> Title (Description): URI
20:48:02 <sbp> all fields and whitespace mandatory
20:48:12 <ptet> *** ptet has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.52B [Mozilla rv:1.6/20040113]")
20:48:36 <sbp> Monty is just Monty. can't really explain him, just demonstrate. think markov-chain and you're in the right area...
20:48:37 <Monty> What makes you think I am in the right area ?
20:48:38 <kandinski> so, Amaya, now you see #swhack is a place where I can be wrong about as often as in real life
20:48:51 <sbp> kandinski: wrong--you're often right
20:48:54 <kandinski> heh, think Eliza and you are also in the right area
20:49:07 <kandinski> sbp, exactly, about as often as in real life
20:49:09 <sbp> yeah. and some other nicely bizarre stuff
20:49:15 <laplink> The Perl Review (Issues #1 is Out!): http://www.theperlreview.com/
20:49:15 <swhacker> posted 536
20:49:17 <sbp> heh, fair enough
20:49:34 <kandinski> Amaya must be catching the end of The Piano
20:49:34 <laplink> 536:|The Perl Review (Issue #1 is Out!): http://www.theperlreview.com/
20:49:42 <sbp> tile puzzles. heh
20:49:57 <sbp> 536:|The Perl Review
20:50:04 <sbp> I don't know how to update the description
20:50:52 <kandinski> 536: s/Issues/Issue/
20:51:01 <laplink> 536::Articles in this issue
20:51:02 <laplink> :
20:51:02 <laplink> Test Driven Development -- David Kosykh
20:51:02 <laplink> , Extending XML::XPath -- Michel Rodriguez,
20:51:02 <laplink> Magick Tile Puzzles -- Grant McLean
20:51:02 <dbot> laplink: Error: 'Extending' is not a valid command.
20:51:10 <laplink> Gah!
20:51:38 <sbp> 536::Articles in this issue: Test Driven Development -- David Kosykh, Extending XML::XPath -- Michel Rodriguez, Magick Tile Puzzles -- Grant McLean
20:53:26 <Amaya> no, I was browsing the X series thinkpads, up to 10 hours batteries. 1.2 kg... black titanium... crunchy
20:53:39 <kandinski> you don't want a crunchy computer
20:53:52 <kandinski> you want one that bonuces back up
20:54:23 <kandinski> <Amaya> Must... control... urge to buy!
20:54:23 <laplink> 530: This entry also known as: "sbp's Self-Nomination For Überhacker of The Decade" :-)
20:54:46 <laplink> * laplink sees "titanium", looks up...
20:54:47 <kandinski> to her credit, she was still using a Pentium laptop in textmode last time I saw it
20:55:13 <kandinski> what size is it?
20:55:18 <kandinski> does it fit in your purse?
20:55:29 <Amaya> 12 inches
20:55:35 <sbp> 530 - heh, heh
20:55:38 <Amaya> it did fit in my bigger purses
20:55:51 <Amaya> i'm not even sad it died...
20:56:15 <Amaya> I guess I could try to get a second handed hard drive for it and still use it as an ssh client :-)
20:56:51 <kandinski> you always work in textmode anyway
20:59:18 <kandinski> Today's word of the day is 'psophometrical'
20:59:23 <sbp> whoo
20:59:35 <sbp> agreed. phophometrical can be word of the day
20:59:41 <sbp> er, no it can't
20:59:45 <sbp> psophometrical can
20:59:46 <kandinski> meaning "something to do with acoustics, apparently"
21:00:00 <sbp> I still wonder what PWP means
21:00:20 <kandinski> Pick Which Pear?
21:00:24 <sbp> in the jsled, not the Picowatt, Psophometrically Weighted, sense, of course
21:00:29 <sbp> * sbp shrugs
21:00:39 <sbp> and whoops, should've used em-dashes
21:00:57 <laplink> * laplink wonders what "PvP" stands for...
21:01:16 <kandinski> Player versus Player, of course
21:01:28 <laplink> Ah.
21:01:40 <sbp> playing KoL, laplink?
21:01:51 <kandinski> yep, but it has a clit
21:02:06 <kandinski> I like my lovers with a clit, but my laptops without
21:02:07 <Amaya> kandinkski quoting sbp: "Amaya is rather keyboard oriented--that's a benefit in some respects" (god I love that webpage)
21:02:16 <laplink> Nope. But it's one a very few comics I read online.
21:02:17 <Amaya> I'm bloggin this
21:02:23 <sbp> whoo
21:02:31 <sbp> and I'm topicing kandinski
21:02:35 <sbp> *** sbp has changed the topic to: <kandinski> I like my lovers with a clit, but my laptops without
21:02:41 <kandinski> I don't mind my lovers not having a pad, but my laptops definitely have to have one
21:03:01 <sbp> .g Amaya Blog
21:03:03 <phenny> Amaya Blog: http://reypastor.hispalinux.es/~amaya/blog/
21:03:05 <kandinski> heh, Amaya, where did you get that sbp quote from?
21:03:10 <kandinski> one of many
21:04:01 <sbp> from http://inamidst.com/notes/amaya I gather
21:04:44 <laplink> .g "Amaya is rather keyboard oriented"
21:04:46 <phenny> "Amaya is rather keyboard oriented": http://inamidst.com/notes/amaya
21:04:59 <sbp> I'm the only person to have noticed that?! :-)
21:05:01 <kandinski> yes, but the funny thing is She *is* rather keyboard oriented
21:05:06 <sbp> oh, .g not .gc
21:05:25 <kandinski> well, I already know a lot about Amaya
21:05:31 <sbp> she doesn't jitter about that, as she said, so I was wrong about that
21:05:41 <kandinski> was not going about reading about her from you
21:05:49 <kandinski> about
21:05:49 <sbp> does she display links inside superscript sections as subscripted?
21:05:58 <Amaya> sbp, so far yes :)
21:06:07 <kandinski> hey, she can do *anything* she wants
21:06:41 <sbp> * sbp dares not be contrary
21:06:41 <Amaya> sbp XDDD LOL
21:07:41 <kandinski> so we are learning Catalan together, Amaya and I
21:07:59 <laplink> *** laplink has quit ("Leaving")
21:08:05 <sbp> and when she's had a bit too much and has a crash, I'll bet she does it on someone's sofa and doesn't completely lose my work in the process :-)
21:08:15 <sbp> yeah? thinking of moving to the region?
21:08:22 <kandinski> no, she does lose her papers, though
21:08:30 <kandinski> no, but we have friends there
21:08:46 <kandinski> and a yearly pilgrimage to eat butifarra and calçots
21:08:47 <sbp> cool
21:08:54 <sbp> ooh. what're they?
21:08:56 <kandinski> (did you see the çedille?)
21:09:19 <kandinski> butifarra: well, there it is called llangonisa or llonganisa, it is a pork sausage with pepper
21:09:21 <sbp> well I say "ooh", but they of course could be something along the lines of ground pigs testicles for all I know. but then I doubt you'd make a yearly pilgrimage for it
21:09:29 <sbp> (yep)
21:09:56 <kandinski> calçots are spring onions, roasted on an open fire and eaten with an almond sauce
21:10:05 <kandinski> also cargols, which are snails
21:10:07 <sbp> hmm, sounds interesting
21:10:20 <sbp> cargols: etymologically linked to escargot?
21:10:24 <kandinski> the sauce is called Romescu sauce
21:10:34 <kandinski> yep, cargols and escargot are cognates
21:10:40 <kandinski> and also Spanish caracol
21:10:46 <sbp> caracol?
21:10:48 <kandinski> caracoles!
21:11:24 <kandinski> yep, spiral staircases are called "escaleras de caracol" in Spanish
21:11:49 <sbp> interesting. I should start calling them snailial staircases
21:11:55 <kandinski> snail mail is only called "correo caracol" by some, and they also wink and nudge everytime they say it
21:12:03 <kandinski> snailcases
21:12:25 <sbp> wink 'n' nudge?
21:13:04 <sbp> what're teh joke?
21:13:32 <kandinski> there is none
21:13:40 <kandinski> they are *that* kind of people
21:14:13 <sbp> must be a rather extraordinary clique. there's the naysayers, the soothsayers, and the correo-caracol-sayers
21:15:36 <Amaya> so is debian the snail OS? It is very slow indeed (release cycle wise)
21:15:52 <kandinski> ...not forgeting the soothsayers, and the Dorothy L. Sayers
21:15:55 <sbp> apparently so. Python's still back at 2.1 in stable
21:16:05 <sbp> svn isn't included at all!
21:16:07 <kandinski> well, it *is* stable, innit?
21:16:10 <kandinski> what is svn?
21:16:18 <sbp> yeah, but so's 2.3.x
21:16:22 <sbp> subversion. a cvs replacement
21:16:44 <Amaya> rplacement for cvs, like grub for lilo and screen for... (?) you hackers outgrow me.
21:17:06 <kandinski> screen is a replacement for alt-f1 to f12
21:17:12 <sbp> screen had a predecessor?
21:17:22 <kandinski> you replace them with ctrl-a plus sundry other keys
21:17:31 <Amaya> keep changing my tools everyone in a while so I feel like a newbie again
21:17:48 <sbp> in the olden days, we 'ad to open up separate terminal windows ma'am and just set the bloomin' titles ourselves :-)
21:18:02 <Amaya> right!
21:18:23 <Amaya> screen gets in the way in all my shell shorcuts
21:18:57 <sbp> yeah. I don't generally use it since the boxes I ssh out to are generally just servers that I don't have to multitask in
21:18:59 <Amaya> too new and trendy for this old school, keyboard oriented, web brower^Wgirl
21:19:30 <Amaya> * Amaya can't type right today
21:19:31 <sbp> here's my title setting code: [[[
21:19:32 <sbp> if [ $TERM = 'xterm' ]; then
21:19:32 <sbp> if [ $SHELLNAME = "zsh" ]; then
21:19:32 <sbp> function precmd() { print -Pn "\e]0;%n@%m: %~\a"; }
21:19:32 <sbp> elif [ $SHELLNAME = "bash" ]; then
21:19:32 <sbp> PROMPT_COMMAND='echo -ne "\033]0;${USER}@${HOSTNAME}:${PWD}\007"'
21:19:35 <sbp> fi
21:19:36 <sbp> fi
21:19:38 <sbp> ]]] - http://inamidst.com/misc/shellrc
21:19:42 <kandinski> yes, but *crunchy*
21:19:42 <sbp> whoops, bit of a big paste. sorry
21:19:48 <Amaya> * Amaya goes back to watching the piano beacuse she is enjoying this channel too much
21:19:59 <Amaya> * Amaya could get adiccted to irc again
21:20:17 <sbp> --- Swhack WARNING: large doeses may cause pleasure ---
21:20:24 <sbp> doeses? doses
21:20:34 <sbp> enjoy
21:20:43 <kandinski> I am not addicted!
21:20:51 <kandinski> I can quit anytime I want!
21:21:02 <sbp> o/~ you might as well face it, you're addicted to Swhack o/~
21:21:03 <Amaya> I'll just stay around and catch up later :)
21:21:09 <sbp> excellent
21:21:17 <Amaya> kandinski go ahead: /q
21:21:27 <kandinski> you can always catch up on http://swhack.com/logs/
21:21:42 <sbp> eek no! I'd miss my SNotDs within a week if kandinski were to go
21:22:12 <Arnia> *** Arnia has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:22:14 <sbp> we all depend on one another
21:22:24 <kandinski> * kandinski beams
21:22:32 <kandinski> today Amaya prompted two of them
21:22:35 <kandinski> so...
21:22:39 <sbp> TINAGR
21:22:45 <sbp> true
21:23:53 <MoiraA> hello
21:23:57 <sbp> hey there Moira
21:24:06 <MoiraA> I can identify with Amaya
21:24:16 <MoiraA> why give up an addiction you enjoy?
21:24:18 <sbp> the client or the person?
21:24:29 <MoiraA> I assumed she was a person ?
21:24:36 <MoiraA> don't tell me it's a bot or something
21:24:38 <sbp> ah, I see. well somehow she managed to give it up for The Piano
21:24:46 <sbp> I guess we didn't hook her long enough
21:24:57 <MoiraA> I played the piano until I a) developed rheumatoid arthrisis
21:24:59 <sbp> heh, nope. Amaya is also the name of an HTML authoring client though
21:25:02 <MoiraA> and b) discovered computers
21:25:07 <MoiraA> ah I C
21:25:12 <sbp> which Amaya, the non HTML authoring client, uses :-)
21:25:14 <MoiraA> c) started work full time
21:25:19 <MoiraA> confuzzling
21:25:24 <sbp> yeah, a little...
21:25:29 <MoiraA> what a much more enjoyable evening this has been
21:25:32 <sbp> sad to hear you had to give the piano up
21:25:40 <sbp> very glad to hear it. have you been swimming?
21:25:43 <MoiraA> well - yes, I used to play to quite a high standard
21:25:44 <kandinski> Amaya the browser is named after a Spanish name my friend Amaya bears
21:25:48 <MoiraA> this morning I did
21:25:54 <kandinski> so I use Amaya, but I mention Amaya a lot
21:26:07 <MoiraA> done quite a bit of housework, unfortunately last night I got quite a bad flare up of my right wrist which is still painful
21:26:13 <kandinski> (well, I don't actually use Amaya, but I tried it once)
21:26:26 <kandinski> (and I don't mention Amaya that much, but I do call her often)
21:26:30 <MoiraA> however, when it was really bad, I couldn't promise to play at church any more
21:26:32 <kandinski> ok, test:
21:26:40 <sbp> (I thought you said you called her Amaya, not often?)
21:26:44 <MoiraA> in case my wrists were just too sore, so yeah, I kind of lost motivation
21:26:49 <sbp> d'oh
21:26:50 <kandinski> how many phone numbers do you know by heart, and and whose are they?
21:27:25 <kandinski> (well, I often call her Amaya, of course, in fact I rarely call her anything else, and I have *never* called her "anything else")
21:27:28 <sbp> I don't think I've heard of someone with wrists so bad they can't play, but then again I don't really know all that many pianists
21:27:33 <kandinski> jcowan would love this
21:27:46 <sbp> 'phone numbers? hmm, probably not all that many
21:27:50 <kandinski> I know all of my best friends' phones by heart
21:27:56 <kandinski> and some not so best too
21:28:05 <kandinski> let me think:
21:28:12 <kandinski> * kandinski scribbles...
21:28:41 <Arnia> *** Arnia (~jgeldart@host81-156-178-51.range81-156.btcentralplus.com) has joined #swhack
21:30:03 <kandinski> I am up to 18 numbers for 14 people so far
21:30:13 <kandinski> my contention is that these are my friends
21:31:06 <MoiraA> I don't know anyone's numbers now
21:31:08 <kandinski> maybe add three to five more who don't have phone numbers, whose number I don't know, or are too new/long (my friend Carlos lives in Germany, and moves often)
21:31:11 <MoiraA> they're all in my phone memory
21:31:15 <MoiraA> I used to
21:31:20 <kandinski> well, I like to know them
21:31:38 <kandinski> I don't have my own phone now
21:31:43 <kandinski> I borrow other people's
21:31:43 <sbp> yeah, I just write mine down. people's secretaries, friend, relatives, services, shops, etc.
21:31:53 <kandinski> well, so do I
21:31:58 <sbp> grep's normally there when I need it
21:31:58 <kandinski> but the ones I use frequently stick
21:32:11 <kandinski> so I end up not needing the note for those
21:32:28 <sbp> right. well I'm more like that with URIs and email addresses
21:32:46 <kandinski> my contentiion is that the people I call frequently now that I have been unemployed are my friends and close family
21:33:08 <kandinski> well, that is a fact, not a contention
21:33:13 <kandinski> but I like the word
21:33:18 <kandinski> Fairport Contention
21:33:52 <sbp> Convention
21:35:48 <kandinski> heh
21:35:52 <kandinski> gotcha
21:36:08 <kandinski> so I always have had a very analog definition of friendhip
21:36:26 <sbp> I'd say it's rather (chuckle) "digit"al
21:36:34 <kandinski> basically, of these four occurrences, I needed three at least:
21:37:04 <kandinski> I have slept on that person's couch; they have slept in mine; I have eaten what they have cooked; they have eaten what I have cooked.
21:37:22 <kandinski> but now I have some rather old friends who do not fit in that criteria
21:37:28 <kandinski> s/in//
21:39:03 <sbp> * Accidentally threw up in their garden * Bred their pets with my pets * Knocked [currency]10,000 off of their house value * Made sweet sweet love to their nearest lampost * Dated their house accurately to within three months of when it was built--or three years for houses pre-1850
21:40:47 <Samsung> *** Samsung (~samsung@217.140.39.167) has joined #swhack
21:42:14 <sbp> heh! at "The Perl Review Suckatude Index" in http://www.theperlreview.com/at_a_glance.shtml
21:42:37 <sbp> VB sucks the most, rocks the least; Java sucks the second most, rocks the second least
21:43:02 <Amaya> *** Amaya has quit ("My damn controlling terminal disappeared!")
21:43:35 <sbp> odd that C++ is in the overall graph but not the first two
21:43:37 <kandinski> naa
21:44:01 <kandinski> any asshole can knock value off your house, date your building, kiss your daughter
21:44:08 <kandinski> teenage or otherwise
21:44:20 <sbp> phenny: tell Amaya I hope she enjoyed the end of "The Piano"
21:44:22 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on for you when amaya is around.
21:44:35 <sbp> it's surprisingly hard to do competently
21:44:36 <kandinski> but if you have both cooked for someone and slept in their couch -- that is a symptom
21:44:58 <kandinski> add one of two: they have slept in yours and/or cooked for you... bingo"
21:44:59 <kandinski> !
21:45:14 <kandinski> sufficient but not necessary conditions for friendhsip
21:45:26 <kandinski> let's add: more than 6 months ago -- and you still talk
21:47:56 <sbp> good idea
21:50:06 <kandinski> what is a good idea?
21:50:27 <kandinski> the "sufficient but not necessary" or the "6 months" rule?
21:52:26 <eaon> *** eaon has quit ("bye")
21:58:08 <kpreid> *** kpreid has quit (Remote closed the connection)
21:59:54 <crschmidt> Now that's a good description of the OpenMedia effort.
22:00:10 <crschmidt> It's sad, of course, that it takes someone other than the creator of the wiki to come up with it; )
22:00:33 <crschmidt> (link [off]'d because it's temporary)
22:00:34 <Arnia> crschmidt: Are you reverse-engineering SEE?
22:00:47 <crschmidt> Arnia: I'm hoping to work with someone on it, but I haven't gotten a chance to yet.
22:00:51 <crschmidt> Our schedules have conflicted.
22:01:08 <Arnia> GTk?
22:01:37 <crschmidt> Arnia: well, we're just working on black boxing the protocol first ;)
22:02:29 <Arnia> * Arnia wants a mono impl you see :)
22:02:43 <Arnia> Argh... going low
22:02:53 <crschmidt> Arnia: I'm not sure if it's even going to be able to work the protocol out. I'm just following along with someone who thinks he knows what he's doing.
22:02:55 <Arnia> * Arnia apologises for any gibberish you may hear
22:03:05 <crschmidt> heh
22:03:16 <Arnia> * Arnia hates being diabetic
22:03:25 <crschmidt> Ew, that sucks.
22:10:18 <kandinski> .acronym SSE
22:10:24 <phenny> SSE: Safe Shutdown Earthquake -/- SATCOM System Expert (DoD) -/- Scottish and Southern Energy (UK electricity and gas provider) -/- Secondary Symbol Estimation (data compression) -/- Secure Seal Encoding (EnSeal Systems) -/- Sedimentological Society of Egypt -/- Sensitive Site Exploitation -/- Ship Sulfur Emissions -/- Signal Security Element -/- Silicon Switching Engine (Cisco) -/- Singapore
22:10:26 <phenny> Salvage Engineers Pte Ltd -/- Single Source Extended
22:10:40 <kandinski> which one are you reverse engineering?
22:11:11 <Arnia> .g SubEthaEdit
22:11:13 <phenny> SubEthaEdit: http://www.codingmonkeys.de/subethaedit/
22:11:19 <Arnia> Danke phenny
22:14:31 <kpreid> *** kpreid (~kpreid@69-169-139-186.bflony.adelphia.net) has joined #swhack
22:19:09 <kpreid> *** kpreid has quit (Remote closed the connection)
22:20:39 <kpreid> *** kpreid (~kpreid@69-169-139-186.bflony.adelphia.net) has joined #swhack
22:27:25 <kpreid> *** kpreid has quit (Remote closed the connection)
22:27:42 <Arnia> sbp: Please teach phenny german :)
22:32:10 <kandinski> yep
22:32:33 <crschmidt> Ugh.
22:32:37 <Arnia> Ask DFKI for their broad-coverage German HPSG grammar
22:32:49 <kandinski> is there any SubEthaEdit compatible/clone for free operating systems?
22:32:55 <kandinski> zeroconf does work, right?
22:33:17 <Arnia> ZeroConf isn't the clever bit, and that's completely cross platform
22:33:37 <Arnia> (its clever in a different way but has nothing to do with the peer-to-peer protocol)
22:33:44 <crschmidt> Right.
22:34:41 <crschmidt> The clever part is the way that it talks to the other clients and lets them know what's going on in the document.
22:34:53 <crschmidt> Which is utterly undocumented (except that it's known that it uses BEEP)
22:35:50 <Arnia> Frustratingly
22:35:57 <crschmidt> Right.
22:36:08 <crschmidt> And there is no similar program for any other platform.
22:36:46 <Arnia> Its almost tempting to write my own protocol and document it so that every platform can use it
22:36:54 <Arnia> (note, I said 'almost')
22:39:03 <kpreid> *** kpreid (~kpreid@69-169-139-186.bflony.adelphia.net) has joined #swhack
22:39:19 <crschmidt> Arnia: If it's not possible to reverse engineerin the SEE protocol, I plan on doing that.
22:40:21 <Arnia> It would be nice if this potential new protocol worked RESTfully if possible... so you can collaboratively edit something across normal HTTP
22:41:35 <Samsung> *** Samsung has quit ()
22:44:54 <kandinski> Arnia, once you have seen it work, YOU WANT IT
22:45:12 <kandinski> I know people who are considering switching only because of SubEthaEdit
22:45:37 <kandinski> (and one who is considering not switching because ibooks are not black, but that is neither here nor there)
22:45:53 <Arnia> I've seen it work... eaon flaunts it
22:46:46 <crschmidt> yeah
22:46:47 <crschmidt> it rocks
22:58:05 <sh1mmer> It is a killer app
22:58:31 <sh1mmer> I am just suprised no one else has done anything of that quality for Linux
22:58:52 <sh1mmer> You would have thought the number of OSS projects would have made distrobuted pair programming a priorityt
22:58:58 <crschmidt> yeah
23:00:58 <ear1grey> ye gads, that's the first time I've seen that. it rocks. i'm inspired.
23:01:52 <ear1grey> it can't take much to add that to an Eclipse editor.
23:02:04 <eikeon> *** eikeon (~eikeon@pool-141-156-48-104.res.east.verizon.net) has joined #swhack
23:02:08 <crschmidt> You need the protocol first :)
23:03:26 <ear1grey> well, JXTA can handle the comms without too much hassle, or jabber, or even jGMA
23:03:29 <ear1grey> or JIni
23:03:54 <ear1grey> all designed to make discovery simple.
23:05:02 <Arnia> Ugh... Java
23:05:38 <ear1grey> * ear1grey notices that there were a lot of J's in that sentence
23:07:13 <crschmidt> ear1grey: I've been told by nearly a dozen people now that recreating SEE is a SMOP. However, I have yet to see proof.
23:07:32 <crschmidt> .acronym SMOP
23:07:39 <phenny> SMOP: Sausage Mushroom Onion Pepper (pizza) -/- Service Method of Procedure (AT&T) -/- Simple Matter Of Programming -/- Small Matter of Programming -/- So Much Of Paragraph NN (US military 1930s through 1950s) -/- Sociedad Mexicana de Ortopedia Pediátrica -/- Synthetic Minor Operating Permit
23:07:41 <ear1grey> small metter of progging
23:07:49 <crschmidt> Simple Matter of Programming
23:10:32 <crschmidt> Right.
23:10:53 <sbp> <Arnia> Ugh... Java
23:10:58 <kandinski> SSE being, again?
23:10:59 <sbp> heh, glad I don't have to keep saying that
23:11:19 <kandinski> well, once we have a working Open Source implementation, we can recode it in Python
23:11:29 <Arnia> Or Mono
23:11:37 <sbp> Anything But Java
23:11:39 <kandinski> ("we code" meaning "you code, I cheer")
23:12:31 <kpreid> ...
23:12:35 <crschmidt> I don't even care if I come up with an implementation. Once someone comes up with a reverse engineered version of the protocol, it really is just a SMOP :)
23:12:47 <kpreid> *vague disturbance*
23:14:16 <ear1grey> if the protocol isn't open source then ignoring it and publishing one that everyone can use would not make too many people unhappy.
23:14:58 <ear1grey> if that's the case then the rev eng can be ignored and it IS just a SMOP
23:15:08 <sbp> hmm, ABJECT. Anything But Java--Even C++ TBH
23:15:23 <sbp> I ABJECT to Java!
23:15:24 <kandinski> TBH?
23:15:29 <Arnia> To Be Honest
23:15:32 <sbp> To Be Honest, common acronym
23:15:33 <sbp> yeah
23:15:41 <kandinski> TBH, hmm
23:15:48 <kandinski> new acronym for an idiom
23:15:53 <kandinski> (new for me)
23:17:17 <Arnia> I wouldn't go as far as to say 'even c++' though
23:17:28 <kpreid> buh
23:17:33 <sbp> TJA then
23:17:40 <sbp> To Joke Around
23:18:03 <kpreid> i'm surprised at the level of dislike of java
23:18:11 <kpreid> I mean, C++ instead?
23:18:40 <sbp> "I'd rather hammer carpet tacks into my gums than program in Java." - Bijan Parsia
23:18:43 <kpreid> but I probably shouldn't say anything...
23:18:59 <sh1mmer> heh
23:19:04 <crschmid1> *** crschmid1 (~crschmidt@dslv-1-137.mv.com) has joined #swhack
23:19:11 <kpreid> (memory safety is worth a lot!)
23:19:14 <crschmidt> *** crschmidt has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
23:19:16 <kpreid> * kpreid stops
23:19:24 <sh1mmer> * sh1mmer coughs
23:19:25 <sh1mmer> python
23:19:39 <crschmid1> *** crschmid1 is now known as crschmidt
23:19:45 <sbp> so is being able initialise a vector with a few members without having to call addElement several times
23:20:01 <kpreid> true
23:20:06 <sbp> less said about the stdout/stderr bug the better
23:20:14 <kpreid> I must admit to not having written any large programs on Java.
23:20:35 <kpreid> my perceptions may be affected by E
23:21:02 <kandinski> ABJECT. Anything But Java--Even C# TBH
23:21:20 <kandinski> my friends who develop Mono and use mono for actual projects swear by it
23:21:31 <sbp> the C++ reference was a hint towards my sgmlid hack
23:21:41 <kandinski> I read that
23:22:13 <kandinski> ABJECT. Anyting but Java--Especially C#, Truely
23:22:38 <sbp> especially?
23:24:23 <kandinski> well, that is what my friends say
23:24:35 <sbp> we're not your friends?
23:24:57 <crschmidt> apparently not!
23:24:59 <kandinski> they implemented an access control mechanism for the LAN party in almost no time, in some kind of gtkhtml#
23:25:10 <Arnia> I love C#... when I'm not coding python ;)
23:25:14 <kandinski> my *other* friends who code in c#
23:26:42 <kandinski> and love it
23:27:05 <kandinski> and the ones who hack Mono--for money!!!
23:27:28 <kandinski> they want me to tell you to use it, it leaves whites whiter!
23:27:35 <crschmidt> I wonder if there's a BEEP mailing list.
23:29:20 <Arnia> "Mono leaves whites whiter" - kandinski (2004)
23:29:31 <Arnia> * Arnia sets up two large washing machines
23:29:58 <kandinski> you know, in Spanish "mono" means "monkey"
23:30:25 <kandinski> so there are a lot of "monkeys with typewriters" around
23:30:43 <Arnia> On the left we have Brand X programming language, on the right we have new Mono (tm). Our two resident housewives (nudges sh1mmer and sbp) will see how mono does against brand x on really stubborn stains
23:31:14 <kandinski> also (caution: SNotD"), there is a funny idiom in modern colloquial Spanish, that can be literally translated as "more dangerous than a monkey with a razorblade"
23:32:38 <kandinski> SNotD alert back to green level
23:32:55 <eonta> *** eonta (~eonta@sub24-234.member.dsl-only.net) has joined #swhack
23:32:55 <Monty> lo eonta
23:33:10 <Arnia> Shh, monty you'll make a fool out of yourself
23:33:11 <Monty> 0:http://d8uv.com/
23:33:22 <Arnia> * Arnia didn't expect that
23:35:50 <kandinski> did he just comment #swhack post number 0?
23:36:11 <deltab> yeah, if that existed
23:36:38 <kandinski> heh
23:39:06 <Arnia> mm... I wonder if Jabber would work as a protocol for collaborative editing
23:42:41 <Arnia> Probably not... we need to get rid of the central server really
23:44:11 <crschmidt> argh.
23:44:12 <sbp> time to kick Jabber's ass then
23:44:24 <crschmidt> anyone here have SubEthaEdit?
23:44:40 <crschmidt> oh, nifty, i crashed it
23:46:14 <Arnia> sbp: We should nuke it
23:46:44 <Moira> *** Moira (~ratki9119@ACBFCE19.ipt.aol.com) has joined #swhack
23:51:13 <MoiraA> *** MoiraA has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
23:51:37 <kandinski> hi Moira
23:51:39 <kandinski> what is the difference between you and MoiraA?
23:52:41 <eikeon> *** eikeon has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:56:59 <Moira> ah sorry
23:57:07 <Moira> seems I disconnected for some reason
23:57:12 <Moira> *** Moira is now known as MoiraA
23:57:39 <MoiraA> just from this server it seems
23:57:50 <MoiraA> although my BTcommunicator has logged out too
23:57:57 <MoiraA> obviously some kind of glitch :/
23:58:31 <kandinski> heh