00:00:16 <sbp> hmm, nope. that's not it
00:00:29 <sbp> the shell does goes POOF when I use exec
00:01:42 <Arnia> Well you need to give it time to come to terms with its feelings. It may have harboured longings for other male shells for a long time
00:02:25 <sbp> ah!
00:02:26 <sbp> [[[
00:02:27 <sbp> exec
00:02:27 <sbp> The command is executed in the parent shell without forking.
00:02:31 <sbp> ]]] - http://zsh.sunsite.dk/Doc/Release/zsh_5.html#SEC21
00:02:48 <sbp> Arnia: ah, hadn't thought of that
00:03:09 <Arnia> * Arnia is in a weirder mood than usual tonight
00:04:04 <sbp> hmm. I guess eval "$*" should do it
00:04:52 <Arnia> Shell scripting is far beyond me
00:05:12 <sbp> whoo, it works
00:05:29 <sbp> * sbp does the learned something and made a useful thing dance
00:06:54 <sbp> (that is "{(verb)learned something and made a useful thing} dance", not "{(adjective)learned something} and {made a useful thing dance}")
00:07:18 <deltab> http://skarnet.org/software/execline/cd.html
00:07:41 <sbp> ...you're kidding?!
00:07:42 <sbp> haha
00:07:46 <sbp> thanks deltab!
00:10:18 <sbp> and I can do "cd -" instead of all that OLDPWD crap
00:10:33 <crschmidt> sbp: canonical URL for CWM?
00:10:46 <crschmidt> ah, http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/doc/cwm
00:10:50 <sbp> http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/doc/cwm
00:10:51 <sbp> yeah
00:11:41 <sbp> odd
00:11:41 <sbp> $ cd /bin true
00:11:42 <sbp> cd: string not in pwd: /bin
00:11:58 <sbp> what's that supposed to mean?
00:12:13 <crschmidt> got this first:
00:12:14 <crschmidt> .g cwm
00:12:16 <phenny> cwm: http://www.omg.org/cwm/
00:12:34 <sbp> heh. possibly due to Google rigging lists.w3.org
00:13:57 <sbp> wtf:
00:13:57 <sbp> /usr/bin$ cd /usr /bin/true
00:13:57 <sbp> cd: not a directory: /bin/true/bin
00:15:00 <crschmidt> * crschmidt wonders whether going around and asking people to offer Wifi hotspots as a way to attract customers would work
00:16:11 <sbp> ah
00:16:12 <sbp> $ cd /usr /bin/true
00:16:14 <sbp> [nothing]
00:16:18 <sbp> works in bash
00:16:26 <sbp> so it must just be zsh's screwy implementation
00:21:03 <deltab> "$@"
00:22:01 <sbp> whoops. I never know which one of them to use
00:22:05 <sbp> I know that $* uses the IFS
00:22:18 <sbp> why did you use $* for your @@ program, but $@ for this?
00:22:34 <sbp> (note that cd - doesn't work for some reason either. wpwd:cd:2: no such file or directory: 45679CDEJKNTXZgiklms)
00:22:44 <sbp> .gc 45679CDEJKNTXZgiklms
00:22:44 <deltab> withcd () { (cd "$1"; shift; "$@"); }
00:22:49 <phenny> no results found.
00:22:57 <sbp> ooh
00:23:04 <sbp> of course... subshell
00:23:10 <sbp> thank you
00:23:19 <deltab> "$@" can expand to multiple words
00:23:34 <sbp> ahh
00:23:37 <sbp> loggy: pointer?
00:23:37 <sbp> See http://swhack.com/logs/2004-08-13#T00-23-37
00:26:10 <sbp> works perfectly (of course)
00:29:17 <Arnia> I love Aimee Mann's music
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00:58:54 <d8uv> Hello.
01:01:08 <Arnia> Hewo
01:03:54 <sh1mmer> insomnia shouldn't be allowed
01:04:00 <sh1mmer> * sh1mmer mutters a bit
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01:06:47 <d8uv> Insomnia is cool if you're me.
01:07:09 <crschmidt> ooh. [ Status isWith [ foaf:Person; foaf:nick "jessica" ], [foaf:Person; foaf:nick "kristan" ] ] . ?
01:07:15 <crschmidt> does the comma work like that?
01:07:24 <sh1mmer> yes but some of us have jobs that start at 9am.
01:07:38 <sh1mmer> In fact tommorow I am suposed to be talking to a reporter at 9am.
01:07:43 <sh1mmer> Today.
01:08:04 <d8uv> Well duh. then it should be outlawed.
01:08:21 <d8uv> sh1mmer: That sucks.
01:08:46 <sh1mmer> I need someone to wear me about before bed.
01:08:59 <sh1mmer> Or more accurately before sleep.
01:10:27 <sh1mmer> crschmidt I think so, but my n3 is rubbish. Maybe if sbp or Arnia were paying attension.
01:11:03 <sbp> yes, that's fine
01:11:12 <sbp> don't forget the leading colons again (I keep telling you that)
01:12:16 <d8uv> I'll leading colon you!
01:12:40 <sh1mmer> d8uv leading sbp by his colon again? kinky!
01:12:43 <crschmidt> ah, right
01:47:21 <d8uv> BOOOOOM
01:47:29 <d8uv> * sbp explodes
01:47:31 <d8uv> Whoops
02:09:01 <jsled> crschmidt: and it's [ a foaf:Person; ... ]
02:09:12 <jsled> the "a" is important. It's literally "rdf:type".
02:10:53 <crschmidt> ah, duh
02:47:42 <sbp> actually, predicate defaulting might be a rather nice feature
02:48:06 <sbp> it could be set to rdf:type by default, and be overridable using @defaultp or something
02:49:01 <sbp> @defaultp foaf:nick . [ "sbp"; foaf:knows [ "jsled" ], [ "crshdmidt" ] ] .
02:49:01 <supybot> sbp: Error: 'jsled' is not a valid command.
02:49:14 <sbp> not particularly readable, though
02:49:41 <sbp> though that doesn't lessen its chances :-)
02:52:22 <deltab> don't you mean ["sbp"] foaf:knows ["jsled"], ["crschmidt"]. ?
02:53:12 <sbp> either, but that looks better
02:53:27 <sbp> [ :p :o ] is equivalent to [] :p :o .
02:53:36 <deltab> why?
02:53:59 <sbp> because TimBL designed it, I guess :-)
02:54:06 <deltab> can you do just :s . ?
02:54:10 <sbp> nope
02:54:20 <sbp> [ ... ] is a special case
02:56:14 <kpreid> cwm accepts it
02:56:29 <sbp> accepts :s .?
02:56:34 <kpreid> yep
02:56:53 <kpreid> since you have :s :p1 :o1; :p2 :o2.
02:56:56 <sbp> notation3.py *really* needs replacing
02:57:02 <sbp> hmm?
02:57:07 <kpreid> surely it can be generalized to zero items :)
02:57:12 <sbp> heh
02:59:07 <kpreid> (':s .' expresses zero triples, of course)
03:00:09 <sbp> <#p> ., _:q ., and "r" . work too
03:00:13 <crschmidt> SELECT ?x, ?y WHERE (?x foaf:based_near ?y) USING foaf FOR <http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/> FROM #swhack
03:00:54 <sbp> heh
03:00:58 <sbp> that would be nice
03:01:14 <sbp> ?x: Morbus, ?y: crschmidt
03:01:23 <crschmidt> heh
03:01:36 <sbp> (be afraid)
03:01:39 <crschmidt> I was constructing the query for #foaf
03:01:46 <crschmidt> as I want to know who is based_near Boston
03:01:55 <sbp> hmm. we could do with a :Swhacker class
03:02:17 <sbp> :Swhacker rdfs:subClassOf foaf:Agent .
03:03:14 <crschmidt> couldn't you just do something like "memberOf"?
03:03:18 <eikeon_> *** eikeon_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
03:03:30 <sbp> why invent two terms when you can do it in one?
03:03:38 <crschmidt> No, no
03:03:45 <sbp> type is very roughly analogous to memberOf...
03:03:46 <crschmidt> foaf:memberOf foaf:group
03:03:55 <crschmidt> Which i thought both existed
03:04:23 <sbp> ah, yeah
03:04:24 <sbp> foaf:member
03:04:39 <crschmidt> .w desiderata
03:04:41 <phenny> desiderata is defined as:-
03:04:42 <sbp> could do then
03:04:44 <phenny> 1. something desired as a necessity; "the desiderata for a vacation are time and money"
03:05:16 <sbp> :Swhack a foaf:Group; foaf:member [ foaf:nick "crschmidt" ] .
03:06:13 <crschmidt> that seems like it's missing something.
03:06:38 <crschmidt> [ a foaf:Person; foaf:nick "crschmidt" ] ., shouldn't it be?
03:07:04 <sbp> I guess foaf:Group is better than :Swhacker because you can give the group a homepage, etc., whereas you can only do that by proxy with the class
03:07:26 <sbp> the type isn't required. nothing is...
03:08:01 <crschmidt> <foaf:member><foaf:nick>crschmidt</foaf:nick></> is valid, then?
03:08:06 <sbp> FOAF has no cardinality restrictions that I'm aware of
03:08:12 <sbp> no
03:08:17 <crschmidt> isn't that what you did?
03:08:20 <crschmidt> oh
03:08:21 <crschmidt> no
03:08:25 <crschmidt> got it
03:08:31 <sbp> <foaf:member><rdf:Description><foaf:nick>crschmidt</></></>
03:08:34 <crschmidt> right.
03:09:16 <sbp> you're lucky you're not a zebra
03:09:37 <crschmidt> that's why i thought you needed the foaf:Person :)
03:09:43 <sbp> heh
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03:09:46 <crschmidt> I knew the striping was wrong! I just didn't know it was right.
03:09:56 <sbp> I'd forget about RDF/XML if I were you. it does strange things to a person
03:10:00 <crschmidt> heh
03:10:06 <crschmidt> I only fall back to it when I'm forced to
03:10:07 <sbp> just think of triples. always with ze triples
03:10:32 <d8uv> I love Blackadder. (Well duh.)
03:10:33 <crschmidt> I just didn't realize that n3 can have [ foaf:nick "foo" ] and the rdf:Description be assumed
03:10:55 <sbp> rdf:Description is just syntactic
03:11:07 <sbp> there is no rdf:Description class or *anything*
03:11:10 <crschmidt> right, but you needed to have something in there
03:11:12 <sbp> it's just an XML element
03:11:17 <sbp> yep
03:11:26 <crschmidt> i didn't realize the something went in there automatically :)
03:11:35 <sbp> well there's no place to put it
03:11:53 <sbp> N3 isn't striped
03:11:57 <crschmidt> right
03:11:57 <sbp> entirely different concept
03:12:17 <sbp> it's like my thing with kpreid last night. no strings, just a big ol' hunk of memory
03:16:35 <crschmidt> The Aaronsen Group seeks a Senior Interaction Designer (a.k.a. GUI
03:16:35 <crschmidt> Specialist) who will spearhead the interactive design of Aaronsen's
03:16:40 <crschmidt> agh
03:16:40 <crschmidt> sorry
03:17:12 <crschmidt> Aaronson Group job offering for GUI designer (requires some effort to apply): http://job439.aaronsen.com/cgi-bin/apply
03:17:12 <swhacker> posted 552
03:17:56 <crschmidt> 552: jluster> doug: is this at least 130k?
03:17:59 <crschmidt> 552: < doug> if they don't suck, yes.
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03:27:36 <sbp> [[[
03:27:36 <sbp> Note: The parser (sax2rdf) does not support reification, bagIds, or parseType=Literal.
03:27:36 <sbp> It does support the rest of RDF inc. datatypes, xml:lang, and nodeIds.
03:27:41 <sbp> ]]] - cwm --help
03:27:42 <sbp> heh
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03:42:56 <NickServ> This nickname is owned by someone else
03:42:56 <NickServ> If this is your nickname, type /msg NickServ IDENTIFY <password>
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03:43:45 <Monty> hi Jibbler
03:43:45 <Monty> hi d8uv
03:43:45 <Monty> Speak of the devil, it's Arnia!
03:43:45 <Monty> Speak of the devil, it's xover!
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03:43:45 <Monty> hi thelsdj, how ya doing?
03:43:45 <phenny> Monty: shh, don't let anyone know you're around!
03:43:45 <Monty> Gotta bail to stick to why
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04:30:04 <kandinski> hey
04:30:05 <kandinski> agian
04:30:10 <kandinski> well, again
04:30:40 <crschmidt> hi kandinski
04:30:57 <kandinski> so,
04:44:13 <crschmidt> idlerpg players - you'll need to relogin
04:44:22 <crschmidt> idlebot is back, new version, etc. etc.
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05:05:22 <sbp> heh: #idlerpg <Omnic> (as pennance for a bot being gone, I gave everyone 2 days)
05:06:56 <d8uv> <idlebot> Logon successful. Next level in NA (-64478)
05:06:59 <d8uv> Hmm...
05:08:48 <crschmidt> heh
05:08:50 <crschmidt> oops
05:09:20 <crschmidt> probably not used to it skipping right over a level
05:15:17 <d8uv> Whoo, it's freaky friday on my favorite forum!
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05:30:05 <crschmidt> redmonk idlebot back
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05:35:26 <d8uv> Arnia pudding fiasco
05:35:51 <Arnia22> Pudding is fun
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05:54:15 <dmwaters> {global notice} Hi all! I'm about to take a server down for a scheduled outage. This shouldn't take long. I'll start in about five mins. Thank you for your patience, and thank you for using freenode!
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06:20:42 <deltab> Wajnryb on pragmatics: http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/07/23/1090464838933.html?from=storyrhs
06:22:57 <Arnia> Meh... pragmatics is an illusion
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06:35:11 <sbp> she has a book out
06:35:11 <sbp> http://www.dosinc.org.au/reviews32.html
06:35:46 <sbp> more articles: http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/books/words/
06:37:26 <Arnia> Hmm... why can't I commit to my repository...
06:37:29 <Arnia> * Arnia kicks SVN
06:40:41 <Arnia> *** Arnia has quit ("Leaving")
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06:59:33 <Arnia> *** Arnia has quit (Nick collision from services.)
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07:02:58 <xcott> *** xcott has quit (Client Quit)
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07:04:11 <eaon> *** eaon (~mememe@chello213047096087.6.12.vie.surfer.at) has joined #swhack
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07:05:21 <jetscreamer> monty died eh
07:05:23 <Monty> Jim: the "bummer" sense
07:06:25 <jetscreamer> he's dead jim
07:07:01 <Arnia> Monty: I want to have your children
07:07:01 <Monty> tom
07:07:19 <Arnia> * Arnia looks at Monty suspiciously
07:07:19 <Monty> etc in "then" rather than :Swhacker because i guess we didn't tell me. my spanish
07:07:44 <jetscreamer> monty has possibly had a stroke
07:07:47 <Monty> water's ethics jumps on sprinting toddlers, apparently.
07:08:01 <jetscreamer> monty botsnack
07:08:02 <Monty> rabbit == splinters;
07:08:05 <jetscreamer> hmmm
07:12:41 <libby> *** libby (~libby@82-32-5-17.cable.ubr01.azte.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #swhack
07:12:49 <d8uv> phenny: Monty wants to chat
07:12:51 <phenny> Monty: chimpanzee == ISA-PnP;
07:12:52 <Monty> Cool, when doing highlights from those mean? =O
07:12:54 <phenny> Monty: Are such questions much on your mind ?
07:12:55 <Monty> uncle: i'll email transactions
07:12:56 <Monty> whew
07:12:58 <phenny> Monty: Do you feel strongly about discussing such things ?
07:13:01 <Monty> lotsa empty space
07:13:18 <d8uv> Best command ever.
07:15:17 <Arnia> I like google fight
07:15:28 <Arnia> @google fight d8uv sbp
07:15:31 <supybot> Arnia: 'sbp': 312000, 'd8uv': 189
07:15:44 <Arnia> See, marvelous :)
07:19:02 <bjoern_> *** bjoern_ (~bjoern@dsl-082-083-167-022.arcor-ip.net) has joined #swhack
07:26:01 <jetscreamer> is that references found in google by the bot?
07:27:27 <jetscreamer> ah
07:35:30 <d8uv> @google fight d8uv Arnia
07:35:34 <supybot> d8uv: 'Arnia': 3100, 'd8uv': 187
07:35:35 <d8uv> :(
07:36:02 <Arnia> @google fight "Joe Geldart" d8uv
07:36:05 <supybot> Arnia: 'Joe Geldart': 1310, 'd8uv': 187
07:36:22 <d8uv> I LOSE AT THE INTERNET
07:36:24 <Arnia> * Arnia looks a little panicked and jumps behind the sofa
07:54:34 <jetscreamer> the big boss at the end will get em for ya
08:02:04 <jetscreamer> *** jetscreamer has quit ("click bang, what a hang, your daddy just shot poor me... (famous 20th century poet)")
08:07:46 <JibberJim2> *** JibberJim2 (~Jim@dsl-217-155-143-69.zen.co.uk) has joined #swhack
08:59:14 <d8uv> HEY
08:59:26 <d8uv> HEYHEY
08:59:31 <d8uv> CHECK THIS OUT MAN
08:59:37 <d8uv> IT'S ON THE LOGS
08:59:40 <d8uv> HAHAHA OH MAN
09:00:25 <d8uv> -- From Act 3, Scene 4 of "Mindless Teenager Visits #swhack"
09:01:21 <sbp> * sbp feeds the play to Mr. Slime Thing
09:02:49 <sbp> 'morning d8uv
09:02:55 <sbp> I think it's the d8uv and sbp show this morning
09:03:08 <sbp> though you're not here
09:03:12 <sbp> so just the sbp show
09:03:15 <sbp> and I'll be going in a bit
09:03:18 <sbp> so just the show
09:12:55 <Cloud2> *** Cloud2 is now known as Cloud
09:17:16 <kandinski> hi
09:17:32 <kandinski> it can be the show and tell show
09:18:14 <kandinski> * kandinski shows signs of having drunk a lot last night and tells a shaggy dog story about it
09:20:35 <kandinski> * kandinski dies a horrible death
09:20:49 <d8uv> * d8uv eats kandinski's corpse
09:21:02 <d8uv> Sorry, I'm just really hungry.
09:21:48 <kandinski> don't mind my, I am just pining
09:21:55 <kandinski> s/my/me/
09:23:01 <d8uv> Perhaps we can get sbp in here by mentioning him a lot.
09:23:23 <d8uv> So, I heard that sbp is a world class kayaker.
09:23:33 <Arnia> *** Arnia has quit (Remote closed the connection)
09:24:47 <d8uv> sbp is also rumored to be dating Carrot Top.
09:24:54 <kandinski> yes, you should see sbp paddle, man
09:25:27 <kandinski> according to People magazine sbp paddles Carrot Top's behind nightly
09:26:32 <d8uv> sbp also likes to eat Swedish Fish candy.
09:26:43 <ham_> *** ham_ (~ham_@host217-34-110-58.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack
09:26:50 <d8uv> In fact, sbp loves all fish-themed candies.
09:27:29 <kandinski> well, I rememer sbp buying a novelty paddle with a transparent hollow handle full of Swedish Fish candy for Carrot Top at the Bilbao Airport
09:27:37 <kandinski> ah, the memories
09:28:15 <d8uv> Indeed...
09:28:51 <d8uv> It doesn't seem to have worked, but we did find out that we can now slander sbp and he can't say anything about it!
09:29:11 <d8uv> SBP LIKES MAN TURDS (like kandinski)
09:30:22 <kandinski> not really
09:30:30 <kandinski> he likes him differently
09:30:37 <kandinski> so do you, d8uv
09:30:47 <kandinski> you crapbit
09:31:38 <d8uv> Of course. I like them in a "Keep those at a distance" kind of way. You like them in a "STICK THEM IN MY MOUTH MMM NUTTY" kind of way.
09:32:29 <d8uv> ... Did I really have to say
09:32:33 <d8uv> "Nutty"?
09:32:59 <kandinski> no, he likes to make them, I like them because I sell sanitation infrastructure for my city, you are the one who mentions texture/flavor in a positive way
09:33:42 <kandinski> never mind the attribution to other people, you know you are the one who goes "MMM"
09:34:26 <d8uv> Only when humming!
09:34:35 <d8uv> (with shit in my mouth)
09:34:41 <d8uv> So, how are you?
09:36:36 <kandinski> hungover
09:36:40 <kandinski> very much so
09:38:48 <d8uv> Ah. I'm well.
09:39:39 <kandinski> good, now wipe some of that brown gunk off your chin, and you are set
09:43:14 <d8uv> A hint: If you don't speak spanish, don't join #barrapunto after taking hallucinogens.
09:44:08 <d8uv> You'll begin to think that someone moved your house to Mexico, and then you'll get scared that you won't be able to tell which bathroom you should go in.
09:44:45 <d8uv> Plus, they'll call you rude things and you won't be able to respond.
09:49:57 <kandinski> if you don't speak Spanish, join #barrapunto-en to talk about Free Sofware in Spanish-speaking coutries
09:50:34 <d8uv> Yeah, but the unfunny joke doesn't work then.
09:50:35 <kandinski> but if you do speak Spanish, one of the advantages of #barrapunto is that d8uv is not there
09:50:54 <kandinski> I don't understand the bathroom joke either
09:51:46 <d8uv> kandinski: No d8uv around... I'm thinking of joining right now! That sounds like paradise!
09:52:04 <kandinski> so maybe the advise should read: "A hint: if you like to make attempts at humor, don't take hallucinogens"
09:54:42 <d8uv> Damn!
10:24:36 <kandinski> http://www.divmod.org/Home/Projects/index.html
10:24:51 <kandinski> lots of interesting projects, all Python
10:25:05 <kandinski> someone with better judgement tell me if it is swhacker-worthy
10:26:58 <d8uv> It is.
10:27:20 <d8uv> <kandinski> I said "better judgement"
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11:57:04 <sh1m> *** sh1m (~cs0tco@candy.sunderland.ac.uk) has joined #swhack
11:57:12 <sh1m> * sh1m crapwaves
12:22:42 <deusx> *** deusx (~deusx@216.17.101.46) has joined #swhack
12:22:42 <Monty> hi deusx
12:29:46 <sh1m> Monty, you are so nice.
12:29:46 <Monty> Does it please you to believe I am so nice ?
12:29:54 <sh1m> Monty, of course it does.
12:29:54 <Monty> Tell me more about that.
12:31:46 <sal> *** sal (~salvatore@158.229.10.193) has joined #swhack
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12:37:41 <crschmidt> still less than half the #idlerpg players logged in
12:38:31 <bjoern_> my email provider just increased my email + data quota from 350MB to 5000MB,
12:38:31 <bjoern_> now I can finally archive several weeks - if not months - of spam and virii online!
12:41:20 <kandinski> .t california
12:41:23 <phenny> Sorry, I don't know about time zone CALIFORNIA.
12:41:29 <kandinski> .t PST
12:41:32 <phenny> Fri, 13 Aug 2004 04:41:30 PST
12:41:44 <ham_> *** ham_ (~ham_@host217-34-110-58.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack
12:41:44 <kandinski> .t d8uv
12:41:47 <phenny> Fri, 13 Aug 2004 04:41:44 D8UV
12:42:14 <kandinski> 8 hours
12:42:53 <crschmidt> until?
12:43:02 <kandinski> Monty, tell bjoern_ hi is looky!
12:43:03 <Monty> kandinski: Okay, I'll tell bjoern_ that next time I see them...
12:43:26 <kandinski> crschmidt: difference whith Spain Dailight Saving Time
12:43:37 <kandinski> s/ai/ay/
12:43:44 <crschmidt> ah
12:43:59 <crschmidt> that time is actually wrong, i think
12:44:16 <crschmidt> if he's in california, he's on PDT
12:44:18 <crschmidt> .t PDT
12:44:21 <phenny> Fri, 13 Aug 2004 05:44:18 PDT
12:44:40 <kandinski> thanks, he is in Alaska
12:44:51 <crschmidt> ah, okay
12:44:58 <kandinski> I assumed it would be the same, but I realise he is more westerly
12:45:17 <kandinski> but still, I see it is a bit early to call friends in LA
12:45:53 <crschmidt> yep
13:04:42 <eel> *** eel (~PircBot@69-169-139-186.bflony.adelphia.net) has joined #swhack
13:06:15 <sh1m> Monty, do you sing?
13:06:16 <Monty> is "russell"
13:07:26 <sh1m> Monty, do you think random answers hide the fact you are crapbot?
13:07:27 <Monty> What straw?
13:08:51 <kpreid> sigh, bad initialization
13:08:53 <kpreid> eel, reset
13:23:10 <Morbus> *** Morbus (~morbus@morbus.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack
13:23:36 <crschmidt> * crschmidt tickles morbus
13:24:18 <Morbus> * Morbus giggles.
13:24:20 <phenny> Morbus: 12 Aug 22:30Z <redmonk> ask Morbus if i can have his request report section from his analog config
13:24:23 <sh1m> crschmidt, is secretly a Mr Men
13:24:42 <crschmidt> Nah, not really, but my designated position is Morbus Tickler
13:24:42 <Morbus> i thought i already.... oh, right, i didn;t.
13:24:45 <crschmidt> .g morbus tickler
13:24:58 <sal> * sal prays for no results.
13:25:02 <phenny> morbus tickler: http://swhack.com/logs/2004-08-03.txt
13:25:04 <Morbus> phenny, tell redmonk to remind me when he comes in
13:25:06 <Morbus> ahahah
13:25:06 <sal> heh.
13:25:06 <phenny> Morbus: I'll pass that on for you when redmonk is around.
13:25:28 <Morbus> .g morbus french tickler
13:25:31 <phenny> morbus french tickler: http://pseudorandom.org/irclog/freenode/%23apache/%23apache.2003-08/%23apache.2003-08-07.log
13:25:36 <sal> too fast.
13:25:43 <crschmidt> 21:15:11 <crschmidt> Oh, sbp, if there's any need for me to be trimmed as a lurker, feel free to let me know ;)
13:25:46 <crschmidt> 21:17:42 <sbp> crschmidt: and lose our Official Morbus Tickler?! no way!
13:25:48 <swhacker> *** swhacker has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
13:25:49 <crschmidt> 21:17:56 <sbp> (oh yeah, I've made you Official Morbus Tickler by the way)
13:25:49 <swhacker> *** swhacker (nobody@vorpal.notabug.com) has joined #swhack
13:29:07 <crschmidt> * crschmidt sighs.
13:29:37 <crschmidt> I dislike people who use image rollovers in navigation where there is absolutely no reason to
13:29:47 <crschmidt> vis http://martelmeters.com/index.php
13:29:52 <kpreid> there are reasons?!
13:29:57 <kpreid> * kpreid grins.
13:30:34 <crschmidt> Note that I added a CSS controlled link to the end of the navigation
13:30:59 <crschmidt> and although I'll admit it doesn't look perfect, the difference is negliagble, and wouldn't be noticable if people hadn't made stupid choices to begin with.
13:32:50 <Morbus> crschmidt: oh ma, talk about bad websites.
13:32:53 <Morbus> i'm working on right now.
13:32:55 <Morbus> holy molee.
13:33:20 <jsled> The few, the proud, the #swhack!
13:33:25 <jsled> [g'morning]
13:33:36 <Morbus> jsled: hey, i helped bring NetSlaves into the world ;)
13:34:28 <crschmidt> * crschmidt cackes at morbus
13:34:36 <crschmidt> cackles.
13:34:47 <Morbus> i was hoping you said shackles.
13:34:48 <Morbus> * Morbus winks.
13:34:49 <eel> *** eel has quit (Remote closed the connection)
13:34:50 <jsled> * jsled bakes cakes at Morbus
13:35:07 <crschmidt> Monkey Cakes!
13:35:11 <crschmidt> oh.
13:35:17 <crschmidt> i combined throwing cakes and monkey theif
13:36:14 <eel> *** eel (~PircBot@69-169-139-186.bflony.adelphia.net) has joined #swhack
13:37:35 <crschmidt> * crschmidt gets rid of the image rollovers.
13:37:51 <crschmidt> There we go. CSS is the way to be.
13:38:05 <crschmidt> It's messy, but it's done.
13:41:49 <sh1m> I care
13:41:56 <sh1m> for each and every one of you my crapbits.
13:42:11 <sh1m> except Monty he is just a crapbot
13:42:12 <Monty> customforms
13:46:17 <eikeon_> *** eikeon_ (~eikeon@pcp08443104pcs.flrdav01.dc.comcast.net) has joined #swhack
13:53:55 <jsled> Monty, AMUSE ME NOW
13:53:58 <Monty> btw. what for Team America:World Police isn't it? Got a few.. :)
13:54:13 <crschmidt> jsled: perhaps you should aks yourself why monty needs to amuse you?
13:54:13 <Monty> 8
13:54:17 <crschmidt> phenny, monty wants a chat
13:54:21 <jsled> oh, that's not even gramatically correct, let alone amusing.
13:54:23 <crschmidt> phenny, monty wants to chat
13:54:23 <Monty> :(
13:54:25 <Monty> Matt- LifeBlogger got over all she uses it _doesnt_ work fantastically with j2me livejournal client would use argv[1][1]
13:54:33 <phenny> Monty: Does talking about this bother you ?
13:54:35 <Monty> I reckon transvestites + party = marmelade!
13:54:36 <phenny> Monty: Right...
13:54:37 <Monty> "chpwd:1: job just do =/
13:54:40 <phenny> Monty: Please go on.
13:54:43 <Monty> if (towels == expertise) { jam smells frantic Yoshi's Island;}
13:56:09 <jsled> hmm.. transvestites + marmelade = party ... that's well known. I'm not so sure about the other way around.
13:56:26 <jsled> And if it's true, I'm sure you want to quote "marmelade", Monty.
13:56:27 <Monty> afaik
13:56:33 <jsled> no, you don't know.
13:56:46 <jsled> That's why I'm informing you, Monty.
13:56:46 <Monty> What answer would please you most ?
13:56:55 <jsled> TEH CORRECT ONE,
14:00:13 <kpreid> ngh.
14:00:21 <kpreid> swhack is getting less interesting lately.
14:00:34 <crschmidt> What would you consider more interesting?
14:00:35 <Morbus> so's the allure of bedding you.
14:00:54 <kpreid> crschmidt: *vague handwave*
14:01:03 <kpreid> maybe it's just not new-to-me any more.
14:01:16 <kpreid> or maybe the recent crapbit thing is unfunny.
14:02:18 <Morbus> crschmidt: LOL
14:03:53 <Morbus> dammit.
14:03:59 <Morbus> the a:hover background doesn't work in IE.
14:04:01 <Morbus> what's that about?
14:04:40 <crschmidt> IE deals with *:hover crappily
14:05:00 <crschmidt> I think that a: can't have a background in IE anyway, can it? You can't set a text-background
14:05:23 <Morbus> you can do a background-image...
14:05:35 <Morbus> works fine in moz. and it must've worked once in ie 4.
14:05:37 <Morbus> http://www.pageresource.com/dhtml/jtut3.htm
14:06:00 <Morbus> hjrm. the last example doesn't work in ie 6.
14:07:35 <Morbus> anyone have IE on a mac?
14:07:46 <Morbus> thats what the customer uses. if it works there, i'm done.
14:07:53 <crschmidt> gimmie a sec
14:08:10 <crschmidt> OS X or OS 9?
14:08:17 <Morbus> os 9.
14:08:49 <Morbus> lemme put the site up for you.
14:09:00 <Morbus> and don't laugh. he designed it in photoshop.
14:10:01 <crschmidt> Yeah, the lightning works in IE 5 on Mac
14:10:15 <Morbus> lord in heaven.
14:10:16 <Morbus> close enough for em.
14:10:19 <Morbus> me, rather.
14:10:28 <Morbus> doesn't it rule? i'm thikning about using it on my site.
14:12:25 <libby> *** libby has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
14:15:14 <crschmidt> http://idlerpg.ethernal.org/playerview.php?player=Christopher&showmap=1
14:18:35 <crschmidt> It's amazing how many websites out there for multi million dollar companies suck ass.
14:20:35 <kandinski> hi all
14:20:44 <Morbus> sup kandy ass.
14:21:08 <kandinski> you can sup on my ass anytime, Morb
14:21:19 <Morbus> tossed salad with dressing, oooh yeah
14:22:02 <kandinski> tossed salad and scrambled egss
14:22:09 <kandinski> and mayba I feel a bit confused
14:22:20 <Morbus> heh, heh.
14:22:24 <kandinski> s/mayba/maybe/
14:23:14 <kandinski> .t PDT
14:23:16 <phenny> Fri, 13 Aug 2004 07:23:14 PDT
14:23:33 <re-monk> morbus: i need your request rep analog config...
14:24:12 <re-monk> if you don't mind
14:28:37 <Morbus> hold.
14:29:31 <re-monk> thx
14:30:11 <Morbus> [[[
14:30:12 <Morbus> # our request report. show the number and percentage of requests, the
14:30:12 <Morbus> # percentage of pages, and the number and percentage of bytes. show
14:30:12 <Morbus> # only those files that were accessed more than 50 times, and sort
14:30:12 <Morbus> # by the total number of access.
14:30:12 <Morbus> REQUEST on
14:30:14 <Morbus> REQCOLS RrpBb
14:30:15 <kandinski> Morbus, I think I am going to write to Anaya (O'Reilly publisher in Spain) offering myself as an translation editor
14:30:16 <Morbus> REQFLOOR 50r
14:30:18 <Morbus> REQSORTBY requests
14:30:20 <Morbus> ]]]
14:30:48 <Morbus> good!
14:30:58 <Morbus> once you get hired, /then/ i'll work on my next book
14:31:16 <kandinski> heh!
14:31:36 <kandinski> oops, I stepped on your deeley!
14:31:44 <kandinski> (sorry)
14:31:54 <re-monk> (i'm on my pc right now)
14:32:27 <Morbus> did that other stuff i sent you aw hile back help you out?
14:32:30 <Morbus> the referer stuff?
14:32:43 <redmonk> *** redmonk (~steve@208.38.224.146) has joined #swhack
14:33:11 <redmonk> swhack!
14:33:13 <phenny> redmonk: 13:25Z <Morbus> tell redmonk to remind me when he comes in
14:33:16 <Morbus> did that other stuff i sent you aw hile back help you out?
14:33:18 <Morbus> the referer stuff?
14:33:23 <redmonk> Morbus: yeah
14:33:26 <redmonk> tons
14:33:35 <Morbus> coolio. you should have email with the other thing
14:33:39 <redmonk> thx
14:33:45 <Morbus> i'm analog mastah
14:34:08 <redmonk> i really wish that the analog docs would document each kind of report, and any option realted to it in one place
14:34:21 <redmonk> instead, they talk about each kind of option seperately
14:34:25 <redmonk> it's nuts.
14:34:42 <redmonk> just tell me how to fscking config report x!
14:38:11 <redmonk> thankee morbus
14:40:26 <sh1m> Morbus, do you use a set of scripts to process the analogs automagically?
14:40:32 <Morbus> yes
14:40:52 <sh1m> How did you set it up to run on multiple logs?
14:41:06 <sh1m> I am using a analog.d directory with all the conf files in atm
14:41:14 <sh1m> and i just set the script to use those
14:41:37 <sh1m> * sh1m was thinking that he might get logrotate to call it instead of cron
14:41:40 <Morbus> for every domain i have that uses analog, I have $name-weekly.cfg and $name-totals.cfg
14:41:47 <Morbus> my script then does the following:
14:41:53 <Morbus> # run the weekly reports to create cache files
14:41:53 <Morbus> open (ANALOG, "ls /usr/local/sbin/analog/*-weekly.cfg|");
14:41:53 <Morbus> @analog = <ANALOG>;
14:41:53 <Morbus> foreach $analog (@analog) { system ("/usr/local/sbin/analog/analog -G +g$analog"); }
14:41:54 <supybot> Morbus: Error: 'analog' is not a valid command.
14:42:18 <Morbus> the weeklies create the cache files, which are used by the totals.
14:42:35 <sh1m> how do you set the output files?
14:42:37 <Morbus> [[[
14:42:37 <Morbus> # run the totals reports to create the overall
14:42:38 <Morbus> open (ANALOG, "ls /usr/local/sbin/analog/*-totals.cfg|");
14:42:38 <Morbus> @analog = <ANALOG>;
14:42:38 <Morbus> foreach $analog (@analog) {
14:42:38 <Morbus> system ("/usr/local/sbin/analog/analog -G +g$analog");
14:42:40 <supybot> Morbus: Error: 'analog' is not a valid command.
14:42:40 <Morbus>
14:42:42 <Morbus> $analog =~ s/\/usr\/local\/sbin\/analog\/(.*)-totals.cfg\n/$1/;
14:42:44 <Morbus> $cachedir = "/usr/local/httpd/htdocs/" . $analog . "*/analog/.cache/";
14:42:46 <Morbus> $logdir = "/usr/local/httpd/htdocs/" . $analog . "*/analog/*";
14:42:48 <Morbus> system ("gzip $cachedir*");
14:42:50 <Morbus> system ("chown -R root:users $logdir");
14:42:52 <Morbus> system ("chown -R root:users $cachedir");
14:42:54 <Morbus> system ("chmod -R 660 $cachedir");
14:42:56 <Morbus> }
14:42:58 <Morbus> ]]]
14:42:58 <sh1m> i have a nasty script which deals with making dated directories
14:43:02 <Morbus> funnily, the stuff I do in Perl would have been MUCH smarter to do in Bash, I suspect.
14:43:08 <Morbus> analog allows you to make dated outputs.
14:43:19 <Morbus> from my weekly:
14:43:20 <Morbus> OUTFILE /usr/local/httpd/htdocs/disobey.com/analog/%Y%M%D.htm
14:43:20 <Morbus> CACHEOUTFILE /usr/local/httpd/htdocs/disobey.com/analog/.cache/%Y%M%D.cache
14:43:55 <sh1m> right
14:44:05 <sh1m> that makes more sense
14:44:16 <sh1m> i was using %Y etc to make dated directories
14:44:31 <sh1m> I should really start calling it from logrotate though
14:44:53 <sh1m> then it will rotate my logs, zip them mail them and process the report
14:45:39 <Morbus> yeah, that'd be a decent idea.
14:45:55 <Morbus> but, i actually have some legacy analysis packages for other vhosts.
14:46:03 <Morbus> so, i just have a generic "wwwweekly" script that does a bunch of shit.
14:46:13 <sh1m> aha
14:46:31 <Morbus> running search indexers, etc., etc.
14:46:31 <sh1m> well i set up an email account which acts a repository for old logs
14:46:36 <Morbus> * Morbus nods.
14:46:36 <sh1m> all bzipd
14:46:44 <Morbus> yeah, i archive yearly caches, but only four weeks of logs.
14:46:55 <Morbus> after the year, i delete the caches and start fresh. the final reports are good enough for me.
14:47:14 <Morbus> since 1998, i've never had a need to rerun reports, so keeping the logs or caches was just a waste, IMO.
14:47:18 <sh1m> Right, I like to keep the raw logs also. We don't have that much traffic so its sane.
14:47:45 <Morbus> heh, heh.
14:47:50 <Morbus> yeah, i get a lot of traffic.
14:47:59 <Morbus> well, enough to make the logfiles prohibitive.
14:48:15 <sh1m> yeah
14:50:08 <sh1m> it annoys me how hard media is practically cheaper than softmedia now though.
14:50:22 <sh1m> I should get an archieve machine with a couple of terabytes in it.
14:50:23 <Morbus> incidentally, happy friday the 13th
14:50:28 <sh1m> heh yeah
14:50:32 <Morbus> i just bought a 200 gig drive recently.
14:52:10 <re-monk> * re-monk is getting an ipod today
14:52:31 <re-monk> same price, 1/10 the size ;)
14:52:57 <Morbus> woot :)
15:00:19 <re-monk> actually, i have a friend who bought a 12" superdrive pbook as a student, and they're running a deal where student's get 200 off on an ipod, so he's selling it to me unopened and cheap
15:05:12 <deltab> *** deltab (~deltab@espians.com) has joined #swhack
15:05:20 <Morbus> deltab, where the hell were you?
15:05:24 <Morbus> don't you ever do that to me again!
15:05:27 <Morbus> i was worried sick! Sick!
15:05:45 <sal> * sal is sick alright.
15:05:55 <Morbus> actually, i had a terrible night sleeping.
15:06:02 <Morbus> i had like acid in my eso or something.
15:06:03 <sh1m> sal you are one sick crapbot
15:06:09 <Morbus> and then our A/C was hella loud and creaky.
15:06:13 <Morbus> pissed me off.
15:06:23 <sal> theres no whining in #swhack!
15:06:48 <sh1m> i thought we were all whiney old geeks
15:06:56 <sal> who resist whining.
15:07:02 <sh1m> bitching about republicans and that
15:07:10 <sh1m> (or conservatives)
15:07:18 <sal> ewwww. politics.
15:07:23 <sh1m> heh
15:07:44 <sh1m> politics is full of crapbits, crapbats, crabpits, and crapbots.
15:07:51 <Morbus> i don't even pay attention to politics.
15:08:32 <sh1m> So does anyone want to travel to Sunderland to buy me a beer?
15:08:38 <Morbus> actually, i feel like i stil lhave acid in there.
15:08:40 <Morbus> goddamit.
15:08:57 <sal> join the club.
15:09:35 <sh1m> eso?
15:09:36 <sal> http://salvatore.f2o.org/sdo/archives/000138.html
15:09:46 <Morbus> yeah, i remeber that post.
15:09:51 <Morbus> you still have it?
15:10:05 <Morbus> this getting old shit is annoying.
15:10:10 <Morbus> i used to /love/ fish.
15:10:20 <Morbus> but for the past few months, whenever i've eaten shit, i've had the most hideous and demonic shits.
15:10:25 <re-monk> i dreamt about being in a car crash this am and awoke flailing my arms
15:10:28 <Morbus> enough so that i'm thinking of weaning myself off fish
15:10:33 <sal> yeah still wake up with it now and then.
15:10:36 <Morbus> er, not eaten shit.
15:10:37 <Morbus> eaten fish
15:10:38 <Morbus> heh.
15:10:40 <re-monk> lol
15:10:40 <sal> luckily the girl has darvocet in the house.
15:10:48 <re-monk> that's where morbus gets his shit-eating grin
15:10:59 <Morbus> darvocet? never heard of it.
15:11:15 <sal> neither had i until i was rummaging around for something to relieve the pain.
15:11:27 <Morbus> does it fix loud a/c's?
15:11:29 <sal> a few mins on webmd and in the pill went.
15:11:37 <sal> if you use them as spacers, sure.
15:11:42 <sal> they're hella large enough.
15:16:59 <re-monk> heh
15:28:06 <jsled> hmm... darvocet...
15:30:37 <re-monk> i like vicodin myself.
15:31:10 <re-monk> for a long time, the post that got the most hits on my site was my "mmmm, vicodin" post
15:31:20 <re-monk> .g redmonk vicodin
15:31:23 <phenny> redmonk vicodin: http://redmonk.net/archives/2000/09/12/vicodin-update
15:32:12 <redmonk> actually, it was this one: http://redmonk.net/archives/2000/09/12/life-on-drugs/
15:32:31 <Moira> hello
15:33:41 <Moira> sh1m, you live in Sunderland?
15:34:10 <sh1m> yes
15:34:19 <sh1m> work at the university
15:34:28 <Moira> ah I see ... I'm from Newcastle
15:34:45 <sh1m> i _live_ in sunderland. I am not a mackem
15:36:05 <Moira> haha
15:37:21 <sal> *** sal has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
15:38:39 <Moira> just reading re-monk's blog
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15:48:41 <re-monk> oh, may as well announce here too: my wife and i are adopting.
15:48:49 <re-monk> i'm gonna be a daddy!
15:48:56 <jsled> woo hoo. congrats.
15:49:04 <Moira> wow, excellent!
15:49:17 <Moira> reading your vicodin facts :)
15:49:25 <re-monk> yeah, i'm so stoked.
15:49:44 <Moira> boy or girl?
15:49:47 <Moira> how old?
15:49:50 <re-monk> want a boy
15:49:52 <MattisManzel> congrats re-monk!
15:49:53 <re-monk> 14-20 mos.
15:49:58 <Moira> nice
15:50:10 <re-monk> we're going to do an international adoption from Ukaraine
15:50:10 <Moira> ah, you haven't one in mind yet?
15:50:15 <re-monk> Ukraine
15:50:23 <Moira> exiting
15:50:31 <Moira> are you going out there?
15:50:47 <re-monk> yeah, for 2 or 3 weeks, but not until next spring
15:50:57 <re-monk> we just started the home study paperwork
15:51:04 <Moira> is it easy to adopt from the Ukraine?
15:51:16 <Moira> or lots of hoops to jump through?
15:52:09 <kpreid> hmm. is the irc: url scheme broken?
15:52:28 <Moira> no idea ....
15:52:48 <kpreid> there seems to be disagreement on how to refer to a channel vs. a user
15:53:57 <ham_> *** ham_ has quit ("ttyl")
15:56:19 <deltab> kpreid: ill-defined
15:56:39 <kpreid> i found two documents
15:56:52 <deltab> but neither standard
15:56:54 <kpreid> one claims: irc://foo/channel irc://foo/user,isnick
15:57:04 <kpreid> the other: irc://foo/#channel irc://foo/user
15:57:19 <kpreid> the first states that # may not be used unescaped.
15:57:24 <kpreid> the second says it can.
15:57:31 <kpreid> deltab: yes.
15:58:03 <kpreid> and this client I'm using follows the second form. nngh.
15:59:26 <crschmidt> I've only seen the first before now
16:02:14 <sh1m> *** sh1m has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:02:56 <re-monk> Moira: ukraine actually has a really good system
16:03:15 <re-monk> their orphanage system is well run, and run by doctors, so the kids are pretty healthy
16:03:24 <Moira> does it? where do the babies come from, are they orphans?
16:03:42 <re-monk> they run eerything throug a cetralized national agency, and they don't use american agenies, so it's cheaper
16:05:00 <kpreid> crschmidt: hm, that's good
16:05:07 <kpreid> because the first seems to be less broken
16:16:34 <libby> *** libby (~libby@82-32-5-17.cable.ubr01.azte.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #swhack
16:16:34 <Monty> Speak of the devil, it's libby!
16:17:18 <Morbus> hey libby
16:17:47 <jsled> Monty, shutup
16:17:47 <Monty> Yes.
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16:24:30 <jetscreamer> *** jetscreamer has quit ("click bang, what a hang, your daddy just shot poor me... (famous 20th century poet)")
16:51:17 <crschmidt> kandinski crapbit, you need to login to idlerpg
16:51:21 <kandinski> hey
16:51:23 <kandinski> thanks
16:51:30 <crschmidt> np
16:52:14 <jsled> cb
16:52:38 <crschmidt> crapbit radio!
16:53:01 <kandinski> * kandinski tunes in
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17:24:57 <Monty> Thank goodness, eel is back!
17:25:00 <phenny> Be quiet, Monty.
17:25:01 <Monty> slams modules!!!
17:25:46 <jsled> Monty: shutup
17:25:49 <Monty> bitches's Iomega motors prefers Telemann's short Whomp's Fortress :(
17:26:06 <jsled> Way too many possessives there, Monty
17:26:09 <Monty> if (mushroom == tractors) { toddlers belongs to foetal legs;}
17:27:26 <jetscreamer> monty lobotomy
17:27:31 <Monty> Coke is glass_ i won't link is anywhere in fact tommorow I live with straight road of FindFileData.cFileName
17:27:52 <kpreid> Should I make eel respond to Monty?
17:27:54 <Monty> hatred is scrawny and homosexual?
17:28:58 <kpreid> (probably not...)
17:31:27 <kandinski> Monty, who is eel?
17:31:28 <Monty> JimH_Taco: Caught the book?
17:31:41 <kandinski> Monty, tell eel yes respond to me please
17:31:41 <Monty> kandinski: Okay, I'll tell eel that next time I see them...
17:32:24 <sal> *** sal (~salvatore@63.148.194.220) has joined #swhack
17:33:52 <eel> *** eel has quit (Remote closed the connection)
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17:43:04 <kandinski> could someone please give me a succint definition of REST?
17:43:08 <kandinski> .acronym REST
17:43:22 <deltab> representational state transfer
17:43:50 <kandinski> and a description of what it does?
17:43:58 <crschmidt> It's an architectural design
17:44:05 <jsled> s/design/style/
17:44:44 <jsled> kandinski: REST => constrained interface + hypermedia as the engine of application state + transparency + caching => goodness
17:45:51 <kandinski> thanks deltab, jsled
17:46:08 <jsled> constrained interface = limited verbs operating over named resources, and state-transfer using those verbs.
17:46:17 <jsled> oh yeah, URIs are important, too.
17:46:18 <kandinski> but any relationship to, frinstance, RPC?
17:46:31 <jsled> yes.
17:46:54 <jsled> RPC is generally "remote arbitrary-procedure call"
17:47:02 <kandinski> the relationship being? can I say for short "RPC over HTTP?"
17:47:09 <jsled> no.
17:47:31 <jsled> god no. The Restifarian heads will asplode at the mere sight of that juxtaposition
17:47:40 <jsled> :)
17:48:19 <jsled> the deal with REST is that HTTP defines the procedures. GET,PUT,POST,DELETE[,HEAD]
17:48:22 <kandinski> so what is the relationship to something concrete that I can wrap my head around?
17:48:32 <deltab> no, REST is very different from RPC
17:48:40 <kandinski> ah, those are the REST procedures
17:48:50 <deltab> methods
17:49:07 <jsled> So it's not "RPC on top of HTTP-as-transport-protocol.", but "HTTP _is_ the transfer protocol".
17:49:32 <kandinski> http://www.ics.uci.edu/~fielding/pubs/dissertation/rest_arch_style.htm
17:49:34 <kandinski> this good?
17:49:38 <jsled> that's the stuff.
17:49:41 <kandinski> know better?
17:49:42 <jsled> .g rest wiki blueoxen
17:49:47 <phenny> rest wiki blueoxen: http://rest.blueoxen.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?FrontPage
17:49:51 <jsled> irc://irc.freenode.net/rest
17:49:52 <jsled> :)
17:49:58 <kpreid> REST ⊂ RPC ∨ REST ∩ RPC = ∅?
17:50:03 <deltab> better than Fielding? heh, no
17:50:46 <kandinski> thanks both of you
17:56:37 <kandinski> the wiki is awesome, by the way
17:56:37 <redmonk> quick i need a name for my ipod
17:56:58 <kandinski> what are your other gadgets' names?
17:57:17 <kandinski> I am calling my network machines for Situationist thinkers and jargon terms
17:57:31 <redmonk> well, my powerbook is FEzzik
17:57:33 <kandinski> also by H2G2 characters
17:57:48 <kandinski> IMplant for the iPod
18:03:43 <eel> *** eel (~PircBot@69-169-139-186.bflony.adelphia.net) has joined #swhack
18:03:44 <Monty> Hey eel, kandinski asked me to tell you: yes respond to me please [Fri Aug 13 18:31:23 BST 2004]
18:07:24 <kpreid> eel: print(__makeTwine.fromChars(['G', 'o', ' ', 'a', 'w', 'a', 'y', ',', ' ', 'M', 'o', 'n', 't', 'y', '.'], null))
18:07:31 <eel> >> Go away, Monty.
18:07:32 <Monty> can't hold back :)
18:07:39 <sh1mmer> y0
18:21:29 <crschmidt> heh
18:21:34 <crschmidt> i'm amused by writing "go away monty" in whatever that is. (E?)
18:21:35 <Monty> going too ? :)
18:22:09 <jsled> Monty: shut your cakehole!
18:22:10 <Monty> cd: string w/ that the level
18:26:03 <kpreid> crschmidt: I didn't want to trigger monty by my own telling eel to say it
18:26:10 <Monty> told them that into symbian seem to figure out some ppl realy are less forgotten; they seem to apply): http://job439.aaronsen.com/cgi-bin/apply
18:27:52 <kpreid> eel: timer.whenPast(timer.now() + 3600000, thunk{ print("Mon" + "ty!") })
18:27:58 <eel> # value: <Promise>
18:28:32 <jsled> heh
18:28:45 <toopa> *** toopa (~troopa@68.167.210.8) has joined #swhack
18:29:01 <crschmidt> is that an hour?
18:29:10 <kpreid> * kpreid nods.
18:42:51 <crschmidt> eel: timer.whenPast(timer.now() + 1000, thunk{ print("phenny, Mon" + "ty wants to chat") })
18:42:51 <eel> # value: <Promise>
18:42:52 <eel> >> phenny, Monty wants to chat
18:42:55 <Monty> (void)fprintf(stdout, "argv[1] is morning.
18:43:00 <phenny> Monty: eventual exercise bike :(
18:43:01 <Monty> moulds destroys mascara.
18:43:04 <phenny> Monty: sense of humour == jabberclacker;
18:43:06 <Monty> I'm going to want rainy shoplifting!
18:43:11 <phenny> Monty: That is interesting. Please continue.
18:43:14 <Monty> Canadian suitcase gropes ravenous Brian Wallace!
18:43:29 <deltab> yay for rainy shoplifiting!
18:44:37 <sh1mmer> *** sh1mmer has changed the topic to: <Monty> Canadian suitcase gropes ravenous Brian Wallace! || Monty predicts daily star headlines
18:45:20 <crschmidt> So, I want to recreate a protocol that would allow applications like SEE
18:45:39 <crschmidt> And in discussion with a friend, he said that a possible protocol would be pretty simple: just two messages.
18:45:52 <crschmidt> INSERT:Postion:Version:String
18:46:12 <crschmidt> DELETE:Version:start:length
18:46:23 <sh1mmer> right
18:46:25 <crschmidt> (exchange position and version in the first line for consistency)
18:46:26 <sh1mmer> I can see that
18:46:41 <jsled> well, plus a "sync" element.
18:46:47 <crschmidt> sync?
18:46:54 <sh1mmer> possibly a lock element
18:46:57 <crschmidt> Isn't that what Version does?
18:47:12 <jsled> crschmidt: sure, if both sides start from nothing/0
18:47:19 <sh1mmer> crschmidt you have to start from a common point
18:47:36 <crschmidt> ah. okay.
18:47:48 <kandinski> I am editing a wiki for colinux, adding a line: [[[
18:47:57 <kandinski> There is one frequent glitch regarding the TAP-Win32 Driver during coLinux installation: the dialog for TAP Win32 installation loses focus and gets hidden under other windows, giving the impression that the installation program is hung.
18:47:57 <crschmidt> so, a sync element would be something like "I last recieved word from the server at time: 1982828248"
18:48:03 <kandinski> ]]]
18:48:12 <sh1mmer> crschmidt "I want to edit version x"
18:48:28 <jsled> GET /version/1234 => Lorem ipsum...
18:48:40 <kandinski> is that ok?
18:49:12 <jsled> kandinski: sounds fine; "glitch" might not be the best word, though.
18:49:24 <jsled> "problem" might be better.
18:49:51 <sh1mmer> man someone needs to give me a couple of grand I can spend on books
18:49:57 <kandinski> thanks
18:50:23 <sh1mmer> crschmidt what about something to compaire your version with the server version?
18:50:40 <sh1mmer> crschmidt maybe look at using svn to do your versioning
18:50:48 <sh1mmer> crschmidt and protocol on top of it
18:50:55 <sh1mmer> or steal from svn
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18:57:51 <H0gan> *** H0gan (Bladder@dialup0201.ts004.bmt.esat.net) has joined #swhack
18:57:51 <Monty> bah, it's H0gan again
18:58:09 <H0gan> Monty, Does God exist?
18:58:11 <Monty> fatty acid is mighty and false.
18:59:01 <sh1mmer> Wow! That was a philosophical answer.
18:59:15 <sh1mmer> fatty acid is power but actually a false god.
18:59:23 <H0gan> Monty, are web designer's wasting their time doing work that software can do for them?
18:59:25 <sh1mmer> Monty, you are a deep thinker indeeed.
18:59:26 <Monty> jordan, perhaps?
18:59:28 <Monty> what di I really would the trouble is shot Slash when jcowan to relogin
19:00:43 <crschmidt> H0gan: yes.
19:02:31 <H0gan> crschmidt: Ah.
19:04:26 <sh1mmer> ttfn everyone
19:04:31 <sh1mmer> im going for some grub
19:06:57 <H0gan> How much is Norton AntiVirus to buy new? :-\
19:07:13 <crschmidt> not sure - I'd say as a guess in the 30-40 range
19:07:37 <crschmidt> sh1mmer: the comparison of versions and resolution of conflicts should all be done on the server side
19:08:11 <crschmidt> sh1mmer: When two clients send changes agains the the same (old) version, you use something like cvs or svn merge to fix it
19:08:38 <crschmidt> but you need to do something that's automatic, becuase you don't want people to have to do manual merging
19:09:50 <H0gan> I was being charged 60 Euro.
19:10:46 <crschmidt> shit :/
19:10:51 <crschmidt> that's a lot more than seems to make sense
19:13:09 <H0gan> Yes but it was ok because I told him not to put it on but he did anyway and I pretended to be mad at him so he said I could take it for free.
19:13:21 <crschmidt> hah
19:13:21 <crschmidt> rock
19:19:54 <sal> *** sal has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
19:27:54 <eel> >> Monty!
19:27:59 <Monty> barf on if sbp how kandinski--our very good morning - any money, "borrowed" it use/need?
19:28:26 <deltab> that was disappointing, Monty
19:28:26 <Monty> time uk
19:31:37 <kandinski> hey, Monty, barf on yourself!
19:31:39 <Monty> So! How monumentally stupid.
19:31:47 <kandinski> heh, that was actually good
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19:58:44 <jcowan> Swhack!
19:59:10 <crschmidt> jcowan!
19:59:17 <jsled> cowan,j!
20:01:37 <jcowan> That makes me sound like a judge.
20:02:36 <crschmidt> jsled: Did you hear about LobbyCon?
20:02:41 <crschmidt> In San Francisco?
20:03:01 <jsled> kinda no ... I saw your link to it and even clicked on the U-R-L.
20:03:09 <jsled> It then opened up in my "web browser".
20:03:21 <jsled> At which point I scrolled down, and then back up.
20:03:35 <jsled> Mine eyes might even have looked at the "web page" that was displayed.
20:03:43 <jsled> But, no, I don't really know what it is.
20:03:51 <crschmidt> heh
20:04:20 <jsled> * jsled looks again
20:04:24 <crschmidt> Lobbycon is basically an informal gathering of people to discuss a topic - similar to a convention (vis BlogOn) only without advertising or a program
20:04:35 <jcowan> hong hong
20:05:43 <jsled> So, like a meeting.
20:05:49 <jsled> Except, in a lobby.
20:06:05 <jsled> so, devoid of the usual niceities like "seating" or "walls".
20:06:11 <jsled> or a "projector".
20:06:15 <jsled> Or a way to control the "lights".
20:06:16 <jsled> hmm.
20:06:23 <kandinski> you can carry your own projector
20:06:33 <jsled> Flash-con!
20:06:36 <kandinski> and there is seating available in lobbies
20:06:39 <kandinski> right
20:06:49 <crschmidt> Well, in this case (of the one out in SF) it was actually in a bar
20:06:58 <jsled> Well, I'm all for Bars.
20:06:59 <kandinski> one person can pay for wireless and do one-armed routing
20:07:02 <crschmidt> (Where the music ended up being way too loud, but that's besides the point)
20:07:13 <kandinski> and another one has to carry a looong extension cord
20:07:15 <Morbus> crschmidt: are you writing an entry?
20:07:15 <crschmidt> kandinski: why pay? GPRS based hotspot!
20:07:16 <crschmidt> :)
20:07:20 <crschmidt> Morbus: nope
20:07:24 <Morbus> k
20:07:27 <jsled> and liquor. If you have enough liquor, you can end up control the lights.
20:07:42 <jcowan> If you have enough $$$, you can end up controlling the liquor.
20:07:45 <jsled> And your seating options become much wider.
20:08:02 <jcowan> I had to leave the theatre last night because of a lack of "wider seating options".
20:08:10 <kandinski> err, GPRS is more expensive than WiFi
20:08:28 <crschmidt> kandinski: not in the US
20:08:37 <crschmidt> kandinski: i get unlimited GPRS for $20/month
20:08:45 <kandinski> ah, what bandwith?
20:08:51 <crschmidt> Not high :)
20:08:57 <kandinski> no download cap?
20:08:58 <crschmidt> THat was why I said it with a :), as a joke
20:09:02 <crschmidt> nope.
20:09:08 <crschmidt> But it's slow as dialup
20:09:14 <kandinski> well, for a meeting irc, some browsing and email is enough
20:09:19 <crschmidt> usually maxes out around 5k/s
20:09:24 <jsled> "comment" a funny:haha.
20:09:26 <kandinski> if you set up your own IRC server it might be ok
20:09:50 <kandinski> and maybe a webproxy for inbound static docs and images
20:10:19 <jcowan> Thingummy's Law of Method Overriding:
20:10:31 <crschmidt> or you could just hold it at a hotel with free wireless :)
20:10:49 <crschmidt> anyway, jsled, the idea is just an informal gathering of people interested in the semweb for mutual edification of ideas
20:10:56 <jcowan> When you override a method m of class C, you must also override all methods in C that access the same part of the state as m.
20:11:07 <crschmidt> if something were to be doen in the Boston area, would you be interested in coming?
20:11:11 <jsled> crschmidt: a good idea indeed.
20:11:13 <crschmidt> I don't know how far of a trip that would be for you ;)
20:11:19 <xover> jcowan: EXPN?
20:11:19 <jsled> [depends on when, of course]
20:11:20 <kandinski> well, I am out
20:11:34 <jsled> crschmidt: should try to do it at mit. get timbl to come. :)
20:11:50 <jcowan> I might be interested, depending on the date.
20:12:13 <jcowan> xover: for example, if m references a (private) instance variable of C, then all methods referring to that private instance variable must also be overridden.
20:12:21 <jsled> get the mindlab folk, I can pick up you and Morb on the way down...
20:12:39 <Morbus> bring bitches
20:12:45 <jsled> of course.
20:13:01 <jsled> only the finest Winooski crack-ho
20:13:29 <xover> jcowan: E_DOES_NOT_COMPUTE. WHat's your context?
20:13:45 <jsled> crschmidt: boston is ~4 hours, I think.
20:14:01 <kpreid> jcowan: this would be assuming the override doesn't call super?
20:14:02 <jsled> something like that... cause it's like 6 from RI back up here.
20:14:18 <crschmidt> * crschmidt nods.
20:14:36 <crschmidt> I'm just trying to think of a way to talk it up.
20:15:02 <crschmidt> I have no idea when, I'm just gathering up votes for it from people in the area
20:15:23 <jcowan> kpreid: even if it does, there's no guarantee that the shared state will be "correctly" set up from the viewpoint of the subclass.
20:15:35 <jcowan> xover: any programming language that allows method overriding.
20:15:58 <kpreid> I don't understand either, then.
20:16:55 <kpreid> Of course, I prefer getting rid of method overriding. :)
20:17:05 <jcowan> Well, I guess if it calls super *unconditionally* and *just once*, then it's safe. But not otherwise. Constructors are safe wrt static variables.
20:17:34 <xover> * xover smells C++ whafting from jcowan's general direction...
20:17:55 <kpreid> Not Java?
20:18:02 <jcowan> Same problem in Java or Eiffel, too. Eiffel has ad hoc defenses against funny behavior.
20:18:31 <jcowan> Sather may not have this problem; I'm not sure.
20:18:51 <crschmidt> is bill kearney in the Northeastern region? I get the feeling he is, but I could be making that up.
20:19:53 <jcowan> Bethesda MD -- marginal.
20:20:29 <jcowan> It occurred to me that one could make method overriding safe by inserting a new layer between the class and the methods/fields.
20:20:39 <crschmidt> mostly, i just want to meet people interested in the semweb. all the conferences tend to be on the west coast or in Europe. I'm tired of that ;)
20:20:48 <xover> An... Accessor method? :-)
20:21:23 <jcowan> No· This would be a new set of brackets in the syntax:
20:21:24 <jcowan> [[[
20:21:26 <jcowan> class foo {
20:21:29 <jcowan> component bar {
20:21:35 <jcowan> int baz(...)
20:21:45 <jcowan> int zam;
20:21:48 <jcowan> }
20:21:53 <jcowan> component qux { ... }
20:21:55 <jcowan> }
20:22:03 <jcowan> methods in bar can't access state in qux.
20:22:04 <crschmidt> (Hm, i always thought qux came before zam)
20:22:06 <kpreid> I smell delegation.
20:22:18 <kpreid> Or composition, whatever you want to call it.
20:22:20 <jcowan> bar can be overridden as a whole, as can quux.
20:22:42 <kpreid> !
20:22:45 <kpreid> nice.
20:22:48 <jcowan> However, clients of this class (as opposed to subclasses) don't know anything about the component structure.
20:23:30 <jcowan> I assume that all fields are private (public fields are syntax sugar over getters and setters).
20:23:47 <jcowan> Smalltalk has protected fields, but I believe that best practice is to treat them as if they were private.
20:23:54 <kpreid> jcowan: this seems quite applicable to E program design. thanks for the idea.
20:23:55 <jcowan> s/has/only has
20:24:08 <redmonk> * redmonk listens to his new ipod
20:24:10 <redmonk> wooo
20:24:32 <xover> * xover goes searching for that quote about instincts to create new syntax...
20:24:45 <jcowan> crschmidt: zam comes before qux because after qux we have quux, quuux, quuuux, etc.
20:24:57 <crschmidt> ah, okay
20:25:37 <jcowan> Once upon a time there was a pattern called Subroutine Call. This pattern is no longer with us, because it has become syntax.
20:26:46 <kandinski> redmonk, I missed it
20:26:54 <kandinski> what did you call your ipod finally?
20:26:59 <redmonk> inigo
20:27:12 <kandinski> "you killed my father, prepare to die"
20:27:22 <crschmidt> Heh
20:27:30 <crschmidt> @princess_diaries++
20:27:31 <redmonk> "have you ever considered piracy? you'd make a wonderful dread pirate roberts."
20:27:31 <kandinski> Though his name was íñigo
20:27:43 <redmonk> * redmonk beats crschmidt
20:27:45 <kandinski> ;)
20:27:51 <redmonk> Princess Bride, moron
20:27:58 <crschmidt> wow.
20:27:58 <crschmidt> i'm dumb.
20:28:00 <crschmidt> @crschmidt--
20:28:05 <crschmidt> I can't believe I did that
20:28:15 <jcowan> "Not Goodyear. Goodrich."
20:28:16 <redmonk> @inigo++
20:28:18 <crschmidt> Princess diaries is actually decent too
20:28:22 <kandinski> is there a thing called Princess Diaries?
20:28:26 <redmonk> yeah, if you're 13
20:28:28 <crschmidt> Yeah
20:28:30 <crschmidt> Hey, hey now
20:28:32 <crschmidt> i like it
20:28:32 <redmonk> hehe
20:28:44 <crschmidt> @princess_bride++
20:28:44 <crschmidt> :P
20:29:04 <crschmidt> Anyway. I iz dum.
20:29:38 <kandinski> * kandinski is listening to House On Hounted Hill while he installs and configures coLinux
20:29:57 <jsled> the movie?
20:30:02 <kandinski> let it also be known that if I do manage to get it working it will be thanks to sbp's help
20:30:06 <kandinski> yes, cool movie
20:30:12 <jsled> original or recent remake?
20:30:24 <kandinski> and there is a local channel that plays films in Dual, so I am listening to the English version
20:30:34 <kandinski> (I don't like dubbed ones)
20:30:36 <kandinski> remake
20:30:38 <jsled> * jsled nods
20:30:48 <kandinski> I liked it a lot, would love to see the original sometime
20:30:49 <jsled> yeah ... that is a good movie.
20:30:55 <jsled> 13 ghosts, too [the remake]
20:31:52 <kandinski> never saw any of them
20:32:04 <kandinski> I only watch terror when they come on the telly
20:32:14 <kandinski> and as I don't have any kind of cable or anything...
20:32:15 <jcowan> Yes, that keeps them small and safe-looking.
20:32:17 <jsled> If you like house on haunted hill, you'll probably like 13 ghosts, too.
20:32:43 <jsled> both [originals] were Wm. Castle picks... and both were remade by the same group.
20:33:17 <jsled> who've remade yet another [House of Wax] to be released this haloween.
20:34:12 <kandinski> I love how WM Castle is portrayed in the millionaire
20:34:17 <kandinski> and the gimmick at the start
20:34:23 <jcowan> "Hola. Me llamo Íñigo Montoya. Tú mataste a mi padre. Prepárate a morir."
20:34:26 <kandinski> with Spike as a cameraman
20:34:43 <jcowan> kandinski: what are the ethics of tu vs. usted concerning someone you are about to formally put to death?
20:36:07 <H0gan> Does freenode not have a Ping? Pong!
20:36:34 <crschmidt> I don't think so.
20:37:15 <H0gan> I thought they did.
20:37:35 <crschmidt> I only know that i