2004-08-16 Swhack IRC Log

00:01:43 <eikeon_> *** eikeon_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:04:39 <AaronSw> hi again
00:04:56 <AaronSw> * AaronSw wonders who sh1mmer is
00:05:10 <sh1mmer> * sh1mmer is Tom Croucher
00:05:27 <sh1mmer> http://kid666.com/foaf.rdf
00:06:20 <AaronSw> so the text/plain logs are preferred because they're smaller
00:06:25 <AaronSw> and it's really tough to override that in apache
00:06:32 <kpreid> oh.
00:06:54 <kpreid> it's mildly annoying because it makes #T fragments not work
00:06:58 <AaronSw> if you know how to fix it, tho, let me know
00:07:01 <Moira> *** Moira (~ihatebt@ACBDB70D.ipt.aol.com) has joined #swhack
00:07:04 <AaronSw> yeah, i know
00:07:07 <sh1mmer> hi Moira
00:07:14 <sh1mmer> * sh1mmer thinks about that one.
00:07:23 <AaronSw> I'm not sure what to do about the utf8; the bot's in perl
00:07:26 <kpreid> sorry, apache config isn't among my skills
00:07:37 <kpreid> AaronSw: well, it would be fine if the &# escaping was removed.
00:07:41 <sh1mmer> I might know how to fix that, but I will have to look at the confs at work cos its 1am and i cant remember off the top of my head
00:07:58 <kpreid> the bytes are going through fine and the output is declared UTF-8, it is just entity-escaping bytes >127
00:08:11 <sh1mmer> the apache thing i mean
00:08:39 <kpreid> which effectively says "these are Unicode codepoints", so the interpretation is like Latin-1
00:10:13 <kpreid> so, removing the escaping *should* Just Work
00:10:49 <kpreid> (of course, you still need to encode <>&'"
00:10:51 <kpreid> )
00:11:24 <kpreid> (but those are in ASCII so there's no conflict)
00:11:30 <AaronSw> I'm also uncomfortable about modifying logger since my changes will be overridden when i pugrade
00:11:44 <AaronSw> but I suspect the patch is pretty simple...
00:12:24 <AaronSw> the offending line appears to be:
00:12:24 <AaronSw>  $string =~ s/([\x80-\xFF])/"\&#".ord($1).";"/ge; # escape ASCII 128-255
00:14:24 <kpreid> Commenting that out should work.
00:14:46 <AaronSw> done
00:15:01 <AaronSw> i suppose you want me to restart the logger now...
00:15:14 <kpreid> Hm, my client seems to have hosed itself WRT #swhack.
00:15:24 <kpreid> test.
00:15:32 <AaronSw> hi
00:15:34 <kpreid> *** kpreid has left #swhack
00:15:39 <kpreid> *** kpreid (~kpreid@69-169-139-186.bflony.adelphia.net) has joined #swhack
00:15:43 <AaronSw> hi again
00:15:45 <kpreid> test
00:15:47 <kpreid> ahhh.
00:15:49 <sh1mmer> if nothing else people should love me for my endless libraries of drum and bass.
00:16:08 <kpreid> I should get the source and *fix* this client.
00:16:18 <kpreid> It tried to interpret your Perl as something.
00:16:38 <sh1mmer> niiice
00:16:43 <kpreid> Which resulted in it not displaying all further lines.
00:16:45 <sh1mmer> thats not a security risk at all.
00:16:56 <kpreid> sh1mmer: I don't mean as in executing it
00:17:05 <kpreid> but as in 'parsing it as markup'
00:17:09 <kpreid> I think.
00:17:13 <sh1mmer> hmm
00:18:24 <sh1mmer> there should be a law against forcing someone to do vb. i reckon its ruining my perfectly good coding skills even if it is OO now.
00:19:22 <crschmid1> *** crschmid1 (~crschmidt@dslv-1-137.MV.COM) has joined #swhack
00:19:36 <sh1mmer> Monty say hello to crschmid1
00:19:41 <Monty> (WLG I quite bad example, if not, you convert it take a strange urge to hack down in Oslo?
00:19:55 <crschmidt> *** crschmidt has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:20:01 <sh1mmer> Monty you are still a crapbot
00:20:03 <Monty> and 6600.. just use in person
00:21:19 <sh1mmer> Hmm, I should read the mailing lists more.
00:23:31 <kpreid> *** kpreid has changed the topic to: ANYOP
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00:28:54 <Moira> *** Moira has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
00:31:39 <cowan> I see Monty picked up on WLG.
00:31:39 <Monty> Pie
00:31:55 <kpreid> .acronym WLG
00:32:01 <phenny> WLG: Wellington, New Zealand - International (Airport Code) -/- Without Loss of Generality (mathematical proofs)
00:32:07 <kpreid> Monty: Atom!
00:32:11 <Monty> We must accept that polysyllabic broken defecation snogs liquid Mao Zedong's caffeine?!
00:32:19 <cowan> If we must, we must.
00:32:21 <cowan> * cowan shrugs.
00:32:42 <kpreid> now *that* looks more like a random sentence generator than Markov-chaining
00:34:39 <sh1mmer> im going to bed
00:34:46 <sh1mmer> my fugging ssh tunnel just died
00:34:50 <sh1mmer> night all
00:34:51 <cowan> Some day at 0400Z or something I'll feed #swhack a lot of spam subject lines from my ginormous archive.
00:34:58 <cowan> Godd night.
00:35:09 <cowan> That'll poison Monty good and proper.
00:35:12 <Monty> sbp: You're welcome. Me getting deeper to believe
00:36:01 <kpreid> hmm, doesn't look like Monty has any channels to himself
00:36:03 <cowan> You will be "believing deeper" after I'm through with you!
00:36:10 <Monty> {?y: u'_:DEjirLJH102', ?x: u'danja_', ?z: u'file:///Users/bparsia/Mindswap/svn.mindswap.org/pychinko/tests/rdfig/2004-07-29.rdf#T17-48-23', ?a: u'2004-07-29T04:29:10Z'}
00:36:27 <cowan> He does respond to privmsgs.
00:36:42 <cowan> Is it known whether his Markov 'base is per-channel or singleton?
00:36:50 <kpreid> Ooh, didn't think of that.
00:37:14 <eonta> *** eonta (~eonta@c-24-16-99-184.client.comcast.net) has joined #swhack
00:37:26 <kpreid> and on actually checking, #jibble-quiz may contain only Monty.
00:37:26 <Monty> poncy
00:38:01 <angryman> *** angryman (~supybot@dhcp31191101.columbus.rr.com) has joined #swhack
00:38:01 <supybot> *** supybot has quit (Nick collision from services.)
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00:38:06 <supybot> *** supybot has quit (Client Quit)
00:38:11 <supybot`> *** supybot` (~supybot@adsl-67-66-104-64.dsl.wchtks.swbell.net) has joined #swhack
00:38:36 <kpreid> @wha?
00:38:36 <supybot`> kpreid: Error: 'wha?' is not a valid command.
00:40:47 <supybot`> *** supybot` is now known as supybot
00:42:34 <angryman> *** angryman (~supybot@dhcp31191101.columbus.rr.com) has joined #swhack
00:42:52 <cowan> Monty doesn't behave normally in #jibble-quiz.
00:42:55 <Monty> possibly a Junior Suite so d8uv feature along yet ;))
00:43:20 <kpreid> What does he do instead?
00:50:47 <AaronSw> *** AaronSw has quit ("mail mess")
00:59:43 <dnm> *** dnm has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:02:14 <cowan> He plays quizmaster.
01:02:25 <cowan> He responds to everything you say, more or less sensibly.
01:02:32 <kpreid> Hmm. This sounds interesting.
01:02:47 <cowan> Join and he'll give you instructions.
01:07:33 <kpreid> 'Nothing happens.'
01:09:34 <cowan> Beats me.
01:10:14 <cowan> teddybot: can you explain this at all?
01:10:14 <teddybot> Meditate on this: Consult other sources <br>-promising <br>-unpromising
01:10:23 <kpreid> * kpreid winces.
01:11:06 <crschmid1> *** crschmid1 is now known as crschmidt
01:14:42 <kpreid> cowan: since you seem to be the only person with the information, perhaps you could provide it?
01:15:03 <cowan> Alas, it was a privmsg, and I already closed that window.
01:15:28 <crschmidt> 21:15:29 -Monty(~monty@129.12.3.176)- Welcome to #jibble-quiz. I am your quiz master and you can type the following commands in this channel: "question", "clue", "scores". Type your
01:15:29 <Monty> /topic ANYOP
01:15:32 <crschmidt>      answers in this channel and I will tell you when you are correct! Correct guesses are awarded 1 point. Asking for clues reduces this value. First to 100 points wins.
01:15:33 <swhacker> *** swhacker has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:15:36 <crschmidt> It's actually a Notice, not a privmsg
01:15:55 <swhacker> *** swhacker (nobody@vorpal.notabug.com) has joined #swhack
01:15:59 <cowan> Ah.
01:16:06 <cowan> I saw it in the privmsg window.
01:16:25 <crschmidt> * crschmidt nods.
01:16:35 <kpreid> I've seen my client ignore notices, but I checked the 'console'...
01:17:37 <cowan> And then he was always answering me because I was typing in his privmsg window, and he apparently always responds to those.
01:19:33 <cowan> Watch Monty make sense on #jibble-quiz!
01:19:35 <Monty> marinades depends on feudalism.
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02:09:31 <cowan> .wn whackamole
02:09:33 <phenny> cowan: please use .w as .wn makes some other bots flood.
02:09:56 <cowan> .w whackamole
02:09:59 <phenny> I couldn't find whackamole in WordNet.
02:10:01 <cowan> bah.
02:10:08 <kpreid> .w whack-a-moe
02:10:10 <kpreid> .w whack-a-mole
02:10:11 <phenny> I couldn't find whack-a-moe in WordNet.
02:10:13 <phenny> I couldn't find whack-a-mole in WordNet.
02:10:20 <cowan> .jargon whack-a-mole
02:10:26 <cowan> @jargon whack-a-mole
02:10:27 <phenny> whack-a-mole defined as:
02:10:27 <supybot> cowan: Error: 'jargon' is not a valid command.
02:10:29 <phenny> [from the carnival game which involves quickly and
02:10:31 <phenny> - repeatedly hitting the heads of mechanical moles with a mallet as they
02:10:33 <phenny> - pop up from their hole
02:10:35 <phenny> - s.] 1. The practice of repeatedly causing
02:10:37 <phenny> - spammers' {throwaway account}s and drop boxes to be terminate
02:13:30 <bancus> *** bancus (~treed@ca-fontana5d-117.snbrca.adelphia.net) has joined #swhack
02:18:40 <Julio> *** Julio (i@80.28.0.90) has joined #swhack
02:18:41 <Monty> But what does Julio have to do with the price of fish?
02:18:43 <phenny> Hush there, Monty.
02:18:43 <Monty> Yes
02:18:46 <Julio> hi
02:19:12 <Julio> listen in he ISOC
02:19:38 <Julio> anybody understant my group :'-(
02:20:03 <Julio> the Interplanetary Reseach Task Force it's important
02:20:16 <Julio> we aren't a SETI group
02:20:42 <Julio> it's for peaceful develop of the communications systems
02:20:53 <Julio> not like weapon tools
02:24:16 <cowan> s/Interplanetary/Internet, Julio
02:24:38 <Julio> http://www.isocgva.ch/cgi-bin/bahia09/bahia09.exe?navigate+bythestars+ISOCGVA-170+0
02:24:48 <Julio> Im only a memeber more
02:25:38 <d8uv> Hello Julio!
02:25:43 <Julio> yes, in electoral situations, speak about Galaxies wars
02:25:54 <d8uv> Why do you want to blow up the aliens?
02:25:59 <Julio> and it's a group for peace control
02:26:18 <d8uv> Yeah. Minipax and all.
02:26:22 <Julio> justice and equity in IP adresss maps, thinks like this
02:26:39 <d8uv> What are you doing here so... late or early?
02:27:12 <Julio> Im not sure, but Im not sure if they use Unicode
02:27:29 <Julio> must be important hahaha
02:27:32 <d8uv> Julio: The Aliens? Probably not
02:27:40 <cowan> Star Wars.
02:27:41 <Julio> ups
02:28:49 <Julio> ISOC.ORBITAL.CH
02:29:09 <Julio> they have discursion in the maps of IPv6
02:29:28 <Julio> multicast adress for video streaming in the future
02:30:20 <Julio> but bigs Lobby
02:30:30 <cowan> The IPNRG is chartered to address the issues associated with deploying and interacting with remote, self-sustaining fragments of the Internet. "Remote" in this case implies communicating between fragments of Internet capability that are separated by millions of kilometers, with correspondingly huge propagation delays.
02:30:42 <Julio> communicaion companies, Time Warner, MCI, ....
02:31:46 <cowan> "Interplanetary Internet is much less futuristic than it seems." explains Vint Cerf, "First of all you have to remember that we developed the original Internet protocol back in the 60's, and it is still the protocol that dictates the Internet almost 35 years later. With all the next generation Internet research going on, and with several space programs planned for the near future in various parts of the world, it is necessary that
02:31:46 <cowan> we start now with research in this area - otherwise the next generation Internet may not be easily able to support our gradual migration off-planet and into space."
02:32:13 <Julio> cowan, do u know the Arlingthon map?
02:32:32 <Julio> ARPA make one, and now we must disscass world wide
02:32:49 <Julio> Im in Spain Europe
02:32:50 <cowan> I only know what you tell me, Julio.
02:33:03 <Julio> the space Soap
02:33:12 <Julio> European Space Agency
02:33:55 <Julio> we are NATO countris, but lanch from Guayana, with russian rockets sometims, and chineses tracking satellite systems
02:33:58 <Julio> hahahaha
02:34:31 <Julio> we neeed the ISO
02:34:45 <Julio> in other case how become compatible
02:35:35 <Julio> cowan, in jobs like the international Space Station the people see hat is important have world Wide standars
02:36:05 <Julio> it's more cheap and help to the trade
02:36:52 <Julio> all the communicatins systems must be comatible, are doing for communicate
02:39:52 <Julio> cowan, look this is the ARPA map http://www.spaceref.com/ipn/03012000cerf/02.html
02:40:08 <Julio> and now what do... internet 2020
02:41:36 <Julio> we need in EMEA DSL Satellite, Africa and Middle East are poor, and need help
02:41:44 <sbp> <Julio> we are NATO countris, but lanch from Guayana, with russian rockets sometims, and chineses tracking satellite systems
02:41:45 <Julio> a interne for education
02:41:47 <phenny> sbp: 15 Aug 22:13Z <jeanniecool> tell sbp he's a fawking stud
02:42:01 <sbp> so it's an international ([blush]) effort: so what?
02:42:23 <Julio> yes, the ESA is the space agency of the UE
02:42:38 <sbp> doesn't mean it's not all compatible. if it wasn't, it wouldn't work
02:42:44 <Julio> European Union, and it's a soap
02:42:55 <Julio> http://www.esa.int
02:42:59 <sbp> anyway, hi everyone
02:43:20 <sbp> heh. I had stuff to say, but Julio's distracted me
02:43:35 <kpreid> hi sbp
02:43:40 <cowan> Hey, sbp
02:43:50 <sbp> the befunge interpreter for python: ambiguous syntax, unambiguous semantics
02:43:53 <Julio> a good place for international standars, I think
02:43:54 <sbp> hi there
02:44:09 <cowan> * cowan , kpreid, kandinski, and crschmidt have been fooling about in #jibble-quiz.
02:44:10 <kpreid> as you can see above, I mentioned UTF-8 HTML logging to AaronSw
02:44:29 <sbp> as for the log encoding problems, since we use a mixture of iso-8859-1 and utf-8, it might be nice to do the encnorm trick and split on whitespace, atempting to utf-8 unencode pieces to determine how they're encoded
02:44:36 <d8uv> Hi
02:44:44 <kpreid> spb: yeah, but in *perl*?
02:45:03 <Julio> I develop a XML TV
02:45:08 <sbp> hmm? well I'd just write a small script to convert all the logs and send it to Aaron
02:45:14 <sbp> * sbp waves to d8uv
02:45:17 <Julio> nice for celular phones
02:45:25 <d8uv> Julio: XML TV? All RDF All the Time?
02:45:27 <kpreid> in practice, since the text logs are unconditionally utf8, latin1 never works right :)
02:45:37 <cowan> Intellitoast.
02:45:41 <sbp> I've been in #jibbler-quiz before when I was stalking Monty: I think I was looking for a channel to test out the "phenny: Monty blah blah" function
02:45:42 <Monty> 0y!
02:45:52 <Julio> Plastic computers
02:45:59 <kandinski> but if xchat can take latin1 when in utf8 mode, then the logbot could
02:45:59 <bancus> *the* befunge interpreter for python?
02:46:10 <sbp> *the* one that I wrote
02:46:11 <Julio> we need less heavy tools
02:46:15 <bancus> ah
02:46:15 <sbp> as opposed to just any old one
02:46:18 <bancus> I was going to say
02:46:20 <d8uv> Julio: I agree.
02:46:20 <cowan> * cowan grabs a foam rubber hammer
02:46:22 <kpreid> hi bancus
02:46:24 <bancus> EBG is in python as well
02:46:27 <bancus> heya kpreid
02:46:30 <bancus> and cowan
02:46:36 <cowan> Ho, bancus.
02:46:36 <bancus> and deltab, and many others I'm sure I know
02:46:45 <kpreid> the #lojban-#swhack intersection grows?
02:46:46 <cowan> Welcome to the RANDOM CARNAGE!!
02:46:49 <sbp> and hi there bancus. welcome to Swhack etc.; I'm sure jcowan's filled you in or at least referred you here, but this is a publicly logged channel, political career destruction warning in effect, &c.
02:46:57 <bancus> heh
02:46:58 <bancus> yeah
02:47:04 <bancus> I've heard about this channel for months
02:47:07 <kandinski> bancus, do you have "befunge" on your stalk list?
02:47:10 <bancus> decidid that I'd finally pop in
02:47:12 <bancus> stalk list?
02:47:14 <cowan> as opposed to the MEANINGLESS HANG
02:47:20 <cowan> which is what we have on #lojban
02:47:24 <sbp> is it as good as you thouht it'd be, or much MUCH scarier?
02:47:26 <cowan> where only things in Lojban are logged.
02:47:28 <kandinski> the one that alerts you when a certain term is mentioned
02:47:33 <bancus> sbp: about what I expected
02:47:35 <sbp> hang?
02:47:40 <bancus> I've been in much worse, trust me.
02:47:53 <cowan> as in "hanging around", y'know.
02:47:58 <bancus> kandinski, no
02:48:02 <eikeon_> *** eikeon_ (~eikeon@pcp08443104pcs.flrdav01.dc.comcast.net) has joined #swhack
02:48:13 <bancus> I just looked up and saw the mention
02:48:25 <sbp> hmm. there's an obfuscated programming languages channel on this network somewhere, but I can't quite recall the name. possibly #esoteric
02:48:27 <cowan> Welcome, eikeon. We're breaking in a newbie^W^W^Wjust chatting.
02:48:36 <bancus> Heh.
02:48:37 <sbp> yeah. #esoteric
02:48:46 <bancus> I'm only really interested in funge.
02:48:52 <bancus> Beyond befunge. really
02:49:01 <bancus> since EBG can load arbitrarily dimensioned funge spaces
02:49:09 <bancus> settable at runtime
02:49:15 <bancus> although it isn't done
02:49:19 <sbp> * sbp duplicates hang in his vocabulary and assigns a new sense to the clone
02:50:10 <sbp> nice how quiet Juli* is now we've started chatting. like the background hum of a fridge in some respects, were fridges to talk semi-randomly about interplanetary TCP and suchlike
02:50:39 <bancus> so I've come to understand
02:50:48 <Julio> http://chem.ch.huji.ac.il/~eugeniik/history/shirakawa.htm
02:51:00 <kandinski> bancus, are funge programs "fungibles"
02:51:03 <kandinski> ?
02:51:04 <Julio> conducted plymers
02:51:16 <kandinski> Monty, tell Julio what you think
02:51:16 <Monty> kandinski: Okay, I'll tell Julio that next time I see them...
02:51:29 <kandinski> Monty_
02:51:32 <Julio> Plastic components,
02:51:33 <Monty> Hey Julio, kandinski asked me to tell you: what you think [Mon Aug 16 03:50:56 BST 2004]
02:51:34 <Monty> It's true to say that juicy helping kindred-spirit gazes at Rastafarian beta-tested sodium ;)
02:51:53 <Julio> hahahaha no
02:51:57 <cowan> middleweight bots, like I said, bancus.
02:52:04 <Julio> I was with unico this days
02:52:19 <Julio> and thinking in mozilla and Nokia
02:52:27 <sbp> Julio: crapbit?
02:52:51 <Julio> celular phones, and in the interplanetary, and the important of more light components
02:53:00 <bancus> kandinski, I have no idea
02:53:04 <bancus> haven't given it much thought
02:53:13 <sbp> okay, quiet now Julio...
02:53:23 <cowan> Generally speaking, anything voiced is a bot (though not always vice versa)
02:53:24 <Julio> planes, celular phones
02:53:29 <cowan> except d8uv.
02:53:32 <sbp> Julio: please be quiet
02:55:22 <sbp> this was an interesting line: <Monty> {?y: u'_:DEjirLJH102', ?x: u'danja_', ?z: u'file:///Users/bparsia/Mindswap/svn.mindswap.org/pychinko/tests/rdfig/2004-07-29.rdf#T17-48-23', ?a: u'2004-07-29T04:29:10Z'}
02:55:24 <Monty> What's the most of mechanical moles with their dollar.
02:55:34 <sbp> looks a bit like pyrple output, though probably by accident
02:56:31 <sbp> ah, it's Jordan's project. and it also led me to this:
02:56:46 <sbp> Semantic Web For Everyone (by kendall & co.): http://swfe.monkeyfist.com/
02:56:46 <swhacker> posted 558
02:57:56 <sbp> hmm. he's working with the mindswap folk fully now
02:58:41 <cowan> This way! This way to the chronosynclastic infundibulum!
03:01:09 <d8uv> So! Who's up for some pie?
03:02:04 <sbp> d8uv: what kind?
03:02:05 <cowan> e^x dy/dx, e^y dy! sec tan cos sin, 3.14159 ...
03:02:27 <d8uv> Not mathematical. The food kind.
03:03:25 <kandinski> * kandinski wants pie
03:04:10 <cowan> Yankees are Vermonters who eat pie for breakfast.
03:04:23 <kandinski> {}{}{}{}+_+_+_+_+_@:@:@:@:@@@@::::@@@""""@@@@@@@a@@@@@]#]##}}~~~###~~~~##~@@@'''@@''@@@~~~~~~~~#qqq````````¬¬¬¬¬¬``````¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦11
03:04:32 <kpreid> catdinski!
03:04:37 <kandinski> 1111111I like
03:04:42 <cowan> catdinski on the keys
03:04:42 <kandinski> I like the US keyboard
03:05:02 <kandinski> I now realise why some of the Unix characters were chosen
03:05:09 <d8uv> We all love the US keyboard
03:05:21 <cowan> kandinski: actually, no.
03:05:25 <kandinski> the '/' is not a shifted character, for instance
03:05:34 <kandinski> tell me it was designed afterwards
03:05:55 <cowan> Unix was born on the Model 37 TTY, which had the "manual US" keyboard rather than the "electric US" keyboard we now have.
03:06:00 <cowan> But true, / is lower case.
03:06:02 <kandinski> neither is '='
03:06:16 <cowan> You can see the manual keyboard's traces in ASCII order.
03:06:20 <d8uv> Nor is "r"
03:06:32 <cowan> "r"?
03:06:33 <kandinski> yep
03:06:39 <cowan> You mean the god R?
03:06:40 <kandinski> r is not shifted either
03:06:45 <cowan> Ah.
03:06:56 <cowan> R is one of the four gods of Lojbanistan.
03:07:03 <cowan> He is the god of hesitation noises.
03:07:40 <d8uv> ... Ok.
03:07:49 <eikeon_> *** eikeon_ is now known as eikeon
03:08:23 <cowan> Nowadays the hesitation noise is "uh" (spelled "y"), but before "y" was introduced into the language, it was "r", which is a name (i.e. an evocation of the god).
03:10:21 <cowan> I think in Loglan you can still do that, but you need "doi" ("O ...") in Lojban to invoke/evoke someone.
03:15:01 <Julio> With next generation Internet research programs now occurring all over the world, the Internet Research Task Force (IRTF) is more than ever the primary vehicle for coordinating these activities. The Internet Architecture Board (IAB) has therefore appointed Erik Huizer as the new chair of the IRTF. New Research Groups are being introduced that are working on diverse research issues, including a particularly challenging study of the problems that have to be solved as t
03:15:01 <Julio> he Internet moves off the Earth - the "Interplanetary Internet". hmmmm
03:15:04 <d8uv> Hmm... I just sneezed out an dorito.
03:15:47 <cowan> Eeewww.
03:15:59 <d8uv> Character encoding is going to be a bitch.
03:15:59 <Julio> yeah, the REsearch can do that they lost their chairs
03:16:12 <Julio> this is happen
03:16:55 <eikeon> *** eikeon has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
03:17:12 <Julio> they can have good develop, but for to be in the ISOC the develop must be open
03:17:56 <Julio> in other case, nothing new under the Sun
03:18:23 <cowan> I've never seen a character-encoded dorito, d8uv.
03:18:30 <cowan> (Sorry, I still think of you as "dative".)
03:19:34 <d8uv> cowan: The really gross thing is that it tasted really good.
03:19:53 <bancus> you taste via your nose?
03:19:57 <bancus> or did some dust reach your mouth?
03:20:09 <bancus> or did you eat the dorito post-sneeze?
03:20:31 <bancus> or have I just lost my mind?
03:22:53 <d8uv> bancus: No, you're getting into swhack-nature
03:23:13 <d8uv> (I ate it.)
03:34:05 <Julio> Hacker Seize, Interplanetary backbone
03:35:00 <sbp> not seize, sneeze
03:35:08 <Julio> hahahaha
03:35:52 <Julio> we must lanch our own Freenode Satellite systems
03:35:55 <cowan> So the burrito was never in d8uv's nose to begin with.
03:36:29 <d8uv> Course not. I don't eat burritos.
03:36:57 <d8uv> Nor stick them in my nose.
03:37:04 <d8uv> (That's nachos)
03:37:10 <Julio> 2 MB
03:38:16 <cowan> Sorry, not burrito, dorito.
03:38:19 <cowan> Details, details.
03:39:56 <Julio> hey, I don't say before want girl want marry with me
03:40:13 <Julio> Im afraid
03:40:25 <cowan> Be afraid.
03:40:27 <cowan> Be very afraid.
03:40:30 <Julio> say me this yesterday
03:41:54 <Julio> what happen in the Nasdaq, oil problems?
03:42:08 <jetscreamer> *** jetscreamer (jetscreame@adsl-64-219-216-41.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net) has joined #swhack
03:42:08 <Monty> howdy, jetscreamer
03:42:09 <d8uv> sorry, we can't save you *this* yesterday.
03:42:20 <d8uv> How about next yesterday?
03:42:53 <Julio> I must think
03:42:59 <Julio> she is pretty
03:43:15 <jetscreamer> hail Monty
03:43:17 <phenny> jetscreamer: 15 Aug 22:17Z <bunny_out> tell jetscreamer that I found the cat -- he came back home safe and sound on his own.
03:43:18 <Monty> monday lunchtime they were long is intructive in his Markov 'base is
03:43:53 <jetscreamer> \o/
03:44:26 <d8uv> Julio: Pretty what? Pretty evil? Pretty ugly?
03:44:55 <jetscreamer> * jetscreamer notices Monty in swhack_norm mode
03:44:55 <Monty> 'Nothing happens.'
03:45:38 <Julio> but must to be crazy, i only think in Worksheet Labs ever
03:46:42 <sbp> you only think in Worksheet Labs ever? wow, that's almost as good as Monty
03:46:42 <Monty> You're not really talking about me... are you ?
03:46:45 <Julio> Im installng a Suseee too, I hae the german distribution
03:46:51 <sbp> yeah. sorry Monty
03:46:52 <Monty> http://www.esa.int
03:47:01 <sbp> Monty: don't you dare... :-)
03:47:04 <Julio> but s the best in switch
03:47:04 <Monty> In a trailing newlines. then you need fixing... I expected
03:47:19 <sbp> it's you that needs fixing, cogbag
03:47:42 <cowan> As a pumpbag I resemble that remark.
03:48:32 <sbp> pumps vs. cogs: civilisations have warred over much less obvious differences...
03:49:13 <jetscreamer> sprockets > cogs
03:49:26 <jetscreamer> sprockets > cogs > pumps
03:49:55 <sbp> pump + pump = sprog
03:50:06 <sbp> <Arnia> *zen*
03:50:29 <jetscreamer> car tunes.
03:50:30 <Julio> The AmerHis system is intended to provide high performance interactive multimedia services through Hispasat’s Amazonas satellite on its four Ku-band coverage zones: North America, South America, Brazil and Europe.
03:51:00 <jetscreamer> * jetscreamer loves new words
03:51:02 <cowan> A pump *with* release valves.
03:51:14 <cowan> jetscreamer loves 'Hispasat'
03:51:25 <Julio> The AmerHis payload will work like a switchboard in space managed by a Network Control Centre on the ground able to configure the payload, assign capacity and manage user traffic.
03:51:38 <Julio> the new use IPv6 multicast
03:52:03 <Julio> Brasil is gong to use a lot
03:52:39 <d8uv> Brazil must be a shitty singer then.
03:53:04 <Julio> they are good in Linux
03:53:14 <jetscreamer> ku-band == sat networking?
03:53:15 <Julio> and good developers
03:53:20 <Julio> I see their code
03:53:53 <Julio> the probem for hem is lanch, we must do, europe and USA for lathinamerica
03:54:09 <Julio> and they can develop their tools
03:54:31 <Julio> or media services, iTV, radio, streaming
03:54:51 <cowan> "When is a fish a bridge" (about six lines of the Elder Edda): http://www.hi.is/~eybjorn/ugm/grm21.html
03:54:51 <swhacker> posted 559
03:54:57 <jetscreamer> tv too... hmmm
03:54:59 <Julio> and nice Samba girls ; )
03:55:05 <cowan> 559::There are three basic problems involved, three basic questions that need to be answered. What is Þund? Who is Þjóðvitnir? What is the fish of Þjóðvitnir?
03:55:29 <sbp> 559:What character set is this meant to be in?
03:55:53 <cowan> UTF-8.
03:56:04 <bancus> I can read it
03:56:13 <bancus> although I have no idea if I'm pronouncing it correctly
03:56:23 <bancus> looks like icelandic or some other norse language
03:56:23 <sbp> utf-8? hmm!
03:56:47 <Julio> yes, it's the standar
03:56:51 <cowan> Old Norse / Old Icelandic.
03:56:54 <sbp> I must be missing characters then. I've got my client set to display utf-8 by default
03:57:06 <cowan> Unlikely. It uses only Latin-1 chars.
03:57:17 <Julio> i develeop in UTF-8 becouse the ISO say
03:57:23 <bancus> thorn and eth are the only weird ones
03:57:33 <jetscreamer> is it supposed to have a cubed exponent and a degree sign(s)?
03:57:37 <Julio> Im speaking about the mozilla bonsai
03:57:37 <bancus> and an accented o
03:58:07 <Julio> it's the university code, BSD
03:58:53 <jetscreamer> http://www.nmia.com/~roberts/kufaq
03:59:24 <cowan> What is [Th]und? Who is [Th]jo[acute][edh]vitnir? What is the fish of [Th]jo[acute][edh]vitnir?
03:59:49 <cowan> Modern Icelandic has changed the pronunciation of most of the vowels, but "smoothly" so that what used to rhyme/alliterate still does.
04:00:01 <bancus> that's the only difference?
04:00:06 <bancus> (besides vocab, of course)
04:00:12 <Julio> I see jetscreamer kuBAND
04:00:15 <Julio> ftp://jupiter.ma.cx/xmltv-0.5.32/
04:00:17 <cowan> Pretty much.
04:00:23 <Julio> look it's a XML TV
04:00:35 <cowan> Not even so much vocab either.
04:00:44 <cowan> Icelandic resists borrowing, preferring to calque new words from old roots.
04:01:18 <jetscreamer> * jetscreamer really loves it when wide new vistas open up
04:01:38 <sbp> $ GET http://www.hi.is/~eybjorn/ugm/grm21.html | grep vitnis | python -c "import sys; print '\n'.join(['%r' % line for line in sys.stdin.read().splitlines()])"
04:01:38 <sbp> '<tr><td>unir \xdej\xf3\xf0vitnis</td><td>the fish of \xdej\xf3\xf0vitnir</td></tr>'
04:01:40 <Julio> it's a proxy diamond
04:01:59 <sbp> one byte per character
04:02:03 <sbp> it's iso-8859-1
04:02:23 <sbp> * sbp switches his UA to iso-8859-1 and it displays correctly
04:02:55 <sbp> .w calque
04:02:57 <phenny> calque is defined as:-
04:03:01 <phenny> 1. an expression introduced into one language by translating it from another language
04:03:08 <cowan> Must be pasting without conversion.
04:03:24 <cowan> English "foreword" = German "Vorwort", e.g.
04:03:27 <Julio> I have the problem of the order
04:04:03 <Julio> sometimes I type spanish with english words
04:04:13 <sbp> foreword was calqued? heh
04:04:13 <cowan> Just seen on TV: a woman is starting to make passionate love to a man when she upchucks in his crotch.
04:04:16 <cowan> Yeah.
04:04:25 <cowan> "Preface" was borrowed, but is much older in English than "foreword".
04:04:47 <sbp> lucky she wasn't kissing him
04:04:52 <cowan> Indeed
04:04:53 <Julio> it's a nice english, french style, like in literature
04:05:06 <cowan> * cowan scratches his head.
04:05:21 <sbp> Julio: what's a nice English?
04:05:28 <Julio> with less pure saxon expressions
04:05:38 <sbp> oh, Spanish
04:05:42 <cowan> Ah, meaning Julio's style in ENglish.
04:05:49 <sbp> ahh
04:06:01 <sbp> like kandinski says...
04:06:06 <cowan> Indeed.
04:06:11 <Julio> it's he order
04:06:36 <Julio> change, we say "casa roja" not "red house"
04:06:47 <Julio> inverse, sometimes
04:07:01 <cowan> kandinski the geek is august and wise
04:07:18 <cowan> Italian is interesting in that respect.
04:07:27 <sbp> oh?
04:07:48 <Julio> yes, lathin languages, italian, french, spanish
04:07:48 <cowan> Restrictive adjectives are postposed, incidental adjectives are preposed.
04:08:11 <sbp> do they have our strict type-ordering too?
04:08:16 <cowan> No.
04:08:21 <cowan> Well, French does.
04:08:49 <Julio> we haven't a strict order of adjetive like in english
04:09:06 <sbp> so why does English have it?
04:09:09 <cowan> la commedia fiorentina would be the comedy from Florence, but
04:09:13 <cowan> sbp: nobody knows.
04:09:37 <cowan> la divina commedia fiorentina would suggest that there is some other Divine Comedy besides Dante's.
04:09:38 <Julio> more commun constructions, can be, but very difficult for foreings, sure
04:09:45 <cowan> It has to be la fiorentina D.C.
04:10:59 <sbp> hmm. I wonder if anyone's done studies on when the ordering was introduced
04:11:24 <d8uv> @topic add "Home Of The Julio Fan Club"
04:11:24 <supybot> *** supybot has changed the topic to: ANYOP || Home Of The Julio Fan Club (d8uv)
04:11:38 <cowan> The trouble is that most older material is either verse (flexible order) or fairly literal translation from Latin or French (tends to keep the syntax of th eoriginal).
04:11:47 <sbp> good point
04:11:51 <cowan> It's very hard to study historical syntax as a result.
04:12:06 <sbp> we need to send Edison back in time (further)
04:12:09 <cowan> We still have a few noun-adjective order cliches.
04:12:18 <sbp> yeah
04:12:20 <cowan> captains courageous, attorney general, etc.
04:12:32 <cowan> mother in law
04:12:53 <sbp> mother-in-law is alright, isn't it?
04:13:11 <cowan> Yes; I was being sloppy.
04:13:18 <sbp> And maidens call it, Loue in idlenesse.
04:13:32 <cowan> * cowan beats sbp for using "alright" in his august and wise presence.
04:13:50 <sbp> .gc alright
04:13:52 <sbp> .gc allright
04:13:56 <sbp> .gc "all right"
04:13:56 <phenny> alright: 2,770,000
04:13:59 <phenny> allright: 5,140,000
04:14:00 <d8uv> If a robot was made that could repair other robots, if it broke, would it break itself?
04:14:04 <phenny> "all right": 5,850,000
04:14:08 <d8uv> er, fix itself?
04:14:10 <laplink> *** laplink has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
04:14:11 <sbp> alrighters are slowly gaining
04:14:21 <cowan> I know, I know.
04:14:28 <cowan> * cowan fights the heroic rearguard action.
04:14:35 <sbp> .gc aight
04:14:41 <phenny> aight: 144,000
04:14:43 <sbp> aight is what we have to watch out for
04:14:50 <sbp> and "at"
04:14:52 <cowan> Probably eight.
04:15:07 <jetscreamer> haight
04:15:13 <jetscreamer> .gc haight
04:15:16 <phenny> haight: 300,000
04:15:23 <cowan> .gc haight-ashbury
04:15:25 <phenny> haight-ashbury: 91,100
04:15:31 <cowan> Hnmp.
04:15:39 <sbp> d8uv: maybe. especially if it saw itself in a mirror
04:16:03 <cowan> I suggested to two quarreling people in a room today (by phone, I wasn't there)
04:16:09 <cowan> that they get mirrors and hold them up to each other.
04:16:26 <cowan> Emperor: "What are these four tones?"
04:16:37 <jetscreamer> whoa cool blender works for d3
04:16:39 <sbp> wouldn't light just bounce between the mirrors then?
04:17:02 <cowan> Scholar: "tian zi sheng zhe"
04:17:21 <cowan> which both illustrates the four tones of MIddle Chinese, and means
04:17:27 <cowan> "the Son of Heaven is august and wise"
04:17:35 <sbp> ooh, Pei. reading
04:17:36 <sbp> (http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/5814/hcxtra01.htm)
04:21:18 <cowan> 100% correct, which is unusual for something written for anglophones that long ago.
04:21:23 <jetscreamer> heh wrong window
04:21:44 <jetscreamer> PAI!
04:21:54 <cowan> Oops, just found the bug:
04:22:05 <sbp> lampcage. cool
04:22:19 <cowan> Chinese has a *firm* distinction between nouns and verbs, though adjectives are a subclass of verbs.
04:23:19 <cowan> Also, he doesn't actually explain *why* Chinese has (almost) no plurals, and why the classifiers are used.
04:23:25 <cowan> All Chinese nouns are mass nouns.
04:25:38 <cowan> "Two apples" (lit. "two apple") would sound as bizarre in Chinese as "two rice" does in English.
04:27:57 <sbp> heh: "Until discouraged by their teachers they speak of batches of ducks, batches of statesmen, batches of sheep or batches of anything."
04:27:59 <cowan> sbp: mirrors: the idea was to let them see each other's faces.
04:28:20 <cowan> More like "units of duck".
04:28:22 <sbp> each other's?
04:28:30 <cowan> The two quarrelers.
04:28:39 <cowan> Umm, their own faces.
04:28:45 <sbp> .gc duck SI unit
04:28:47 <phenny> duck SI unit: 52,900
04:28:49 <sbp> ah
04:28:54 <sbp> .g duck SI unit
04:28:55 <phenny> duck SI unit: http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/SI%20base%20unit
04:28:56 <sbp> gah
04:29:26 <cowan> The first book of the Final Covenant Chronicles comes out this fall, for those who care.
04:30:20 <sbp> .g "Final Covenant Chronicles"
04:30:21 <phenny> "Final Covenant Chronicles": http://speculativevision.com/forum/messages/15/27.html
04:31:03 <sbp> oh cool
04:31:15 <sbp> that thread contains a link to another thread that has a spoiler in it
04:31:32 <sbp> but the spoiler is black on black, so you have to select it in order to read it
04:31:34 <sbp> good idea
04:32:01 <sbp> not quite device independent but the prefixed warning is fine for streaming media
04:32:38 <sbp> a batch of awesomeness abounds
04:32:58 <cowan> phenny, tell kandinski "Is there a significant difference between the ñ in uña and the ni in unión?"
04:32:58 <phenny> cowan: I'll pass that on for you when kandinski is around.
04:34:24 <d8uv> sbp: I'll pass that on for you when AaronSw is around.
04:34:30 <d8uv> Crap! Wrong window.
04:35:19 <cowan> ^A reveals no magic links, sbp.
04:43:16 <sbp> ^A: that reminds me; care to join the Great Editor naming debate/thinkstorm/ideaplash?
04:43:38 <sbp> emano and editext are the two leading contenders currently
04:44:10 <sbp> .gc rotide
04:44:13 <phenny> rotide: 594
04:45:12 <cowan> What's the context? An existing Great Editor needs renaming, or a new Great Editor?
04:45:23 <cowan> Anyhow, what's wrong with the name "ex"?
04:45:31 <sbp> new one
04:45:34 <d8uv> The googlecount.
04:45:35 <sbp> heh
04:45:38 <d8uv> .gc ex
04:45:44 <phenny> ex: 41,200,000
04:46:15 <sbp> d8uv: http://www.rt.com/man/vi.1.html
04:46:26 <d8uv> That too
04:47:21 <cowan> So is this Great Editor actually defined anywhere yet?
04:47:36 <d8uv> (/me was about to suggest "Awed", then shut up)
04:48:29 <sbp> it consists of two parts: a manifesto full of claptrap, bric-a-brac, humdrumry, insolence, and outright ignoramability; and a pathetic little piece of ncurses library using, Python (duh) based code
04:49:44 <Monty> hehheh
04:51:40 <sbp> the basic premise is that I'm fed up with nano and have the power to produce something better for myself
04:51:57 <sbp> if you can build yourself a better house...
04:52:08 <cowan> Off to http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/taoup/html/ch13s02.html at once!
04:52:19 <cowan> "A Tale of Five Editors"
04:56:46 <cowan> nano is pico?
04:57:47 <cowan> There was once an assembler named SAVE.
04:57:53 <cowan> This did not stand for anything.
04:58:10 <cowan> It was just that if your hard-copy listings had SAVE all over them, they were less likely to be tossed out by mistake.
05:00:54 <sbp> nano is very nearly pico, to the extent that it has a pico emulation mode. sam and wily look very interesting
05:01:09 <sbp> SAVE: heh
05:01:41 <sbp> $ PropertyOfSeanBPalmer test.txt
05:02:18 <sbp> it could append a "Printed using ..." on Ctrl+P
05:03:12 <cowan> I recommend playing with them.
05:03:23 <cowan> Sam has a dumb mode, which is probably too dumb for you, but no cursed mode
05:05:21 <sbp> getting both
05:06:52 <sbp> wily requires X? bah
05:07:27 <cowan> Sure, it's a GUI editor.
05:07:56 <cowan> You don't want to run Sam in -d mode either: it's too much like ed.
05:08:06 <cowan> Anyhow, the point wasn't the editors,
05:08:14 <sbp> heh. that's both of those out the window then
05:08:21 <sbp> right, it's the approach
05:08:27 <cowan> it's all the stuff about accidental vs. essential complexity.
05:08:32 <sbp> would've been nice to study them first hand too though
05:08:32 <Julio> Nice to hear from you. The aricle of course was an old one... June 22, 2001. I
05:08:32 <Julio> think if Sandra were still writing for us she would have followed up before now
05:08:32 <Julio> with an article on the brilliant Mozilla release. Everyone loves it as far as I
05:08:32 <Julio> know and it forced Microsoft to step up to the plate on issues like popup
05:08:32 <Julio> blocking.  They still haven't matched the tabbed windows feature which is one
05:08:33 <Julio> of the things everyone loves about mozilla.
05:08:38 <Julio> ....
05:08:50 <Julio> hmmm Im no a nenemy of MS
05:08:59 <cowan> New noun: julioblort.
05:09:04 <sbp> heh!
05:09:04 <Julio> the peoplehink this
05:09:31 <sbp> it was a bit unexpected
05:09:33 <Julio> only that i do open
05:09:49 <sbp> like a cucumber landing in your tea at breakfast time
05:09:50 <Julio> and i's more quick
05:10:00 <Monty> ChanServ and sbp sitting in a tree...
05:10:46 <cowan> Eating again, I see, Algy.
05:11:07 <jetscreamer> * jetscreamer wonders what happens if you make moz the shell in w2k
05:11:24 <sbp> eating?
05:11:24 <jetscreamer> f11 works
05:12:04 <cowan> s/again/as usual
05:12:14 <cowan> Quotation from "The Importance of Being Earnest"
05:12:26 <cowan> it was you that referred to a cucumber in the tea,
05:12:44 <cowan> which naturally led to thoughts of cucumber sandwiches
05:12:54 <cowan> and then of Algernon and Jack.
05:13:31 <sbp> how silly of me not to notice (really. I should read more Wilde)
05:13:35 <cowan> http://www.gutenberg.net/dirs/etext97/tiobe10.txt
05:14:19 <cowan> "Exploded! Was he the victim of a revolutionary
05:14:19 <cowan> outrage? I was not aware that Mr. Bunbury was interested in social
05:14:19 <cowan> legislation. If so, he is well punished for his Morbusity."
05:14:37 <sbp> ah, I.i helps explain the reference right off
05:15:06 <cowan> "Then a passionate celibacy is all that any of us can look forward to."
05:15:20 <cowan> "Is this Miss Prism a female of repellent aspect, remotely connected with education?"
05:15:50 <cowan> "Lady Bracknell, I hate to seem inquisitive, but would you kindly inform me who I am?"
05:16:19 <sbp> Miss Prism: that'd be one that you can never put light into?
05:16:50 <sbp> .gc "John Prism"
05:16:55 <phenny> "John Prism": 51
05:17:17 <cowan> "A gross deception has been practised on both of us."
05:17:22 <jetscreamer> *** jetscreamer has quit ("tough luck... (infamous 20th century poet)")
05:17:44 <cowan> No, thank you. Sugar is not fashionable any more. [Cecily looks angrily at her, takes up the tongs and puts four lumps of sugar into the cup.]
05:17:56 <cowan> * cowan forgot the quotes that time
05:18:24 <cowan> "If the poor fellow has been entrapped into any foolish promise I shall consider it my duty to rescue him at once, and with a firm hand."
05:19:00 <cowan> "You see, it is simply a very young girl's record of her own thoughts and impressions, and consequently meant for publication."
05:19:17 <cowan> Wilde foresees LiveJournal.
05:19:23 <sbp> your spam subjects are all Wilde?
05:19:44 <cowan> Nope. Just cherry picking in order to postpone the two great necessities of (my) life.
05:19:56 <sbp> uh oh. I smell needle
05:20:01 <cowan> "If I am occasionally a little over-dressed, I make up for it by being always immensely over-educated."
05:20:02 <sbp> and... possibly rain
05:20:10 <cowan> No, no needle now.
05:20:16 <cowan> "Rain" is closer.
05:20:23 <cowan> But what I meant was Shower and Bed, as it is 0119 local.
05:20:24 <sbp> NY rain
05:20:28 <cowan> Lots of it.
05:20:31 <sbp> oh, whoops
05:20:56 <sbp> it's 6:20 local for me. midday!
05:20:58 <cowan> Rain last week, rain next week, and quite possibly rain the week after.
05:21:27 <sbp> blue summer
05:22:27 <cowan> Of course over there you're used to it.
05:22:38 <cowan> But we figure our streets have been washed quite enough, thankyouverymuch.
05:22:44 <sbp> keeps the scenery greenery
05:23:30 <sbp> I rather like the rain. there are so many types though, I think it's much like saying you like a particular country, or a planet
05:23:41 <cowan> Yeah.
05:24:01 <cowan> We're simpler around here; we don't object to ordering "beer" by that name.
05:24:18 <cowan> Although we draw the line at going into a restaurant and ordering "meat".
05:24:29 <sbp> heh. "chocolate piano please"
05:25:23 <sbp> * sbp nudges his box a little before realising how perilously close he is to the power switch
05:25:38 <sbp> the good thing about this one, though, is that it's really difficult to active the switch (as it should be)
05:25:51 <sbp> can't believe most earlier models were so easy to flip on and off with the big whacker
05:28:45 <sbp> heh
05:28:46 <sbp> [06:28] <Monty> Question challenge #1295: what is a group of geese called
05:28:46 <sbp> [06:28] <sbp> flock
05:28:46 <sbp> [06:28] <sbp> batch
05:28:46 <sbp> [06:28] <sbp> gaggle
05:28:46 <sbp> [06:28] <Monty> The winner was sbp with the correct answer: gaggle
05:28:48 <Monty> To those were SHARKS
05:28:55 <Monty> unless you're running, though adjectives are still no ChanServ appeared... is Bill Day also joining (or have mostly finished my denigration of sketches that some laughs, but a half ago?
05:41:48 <d8uv> phenny: Monty wants to chat
05:41:54 <phenny> Monty: Please go on.
05:41:55 <Monty> code software for something away, all I would say no case you want 1.3 + pump = apple<br>>>> del web['http://www.example.org/apple.html']
05:41:57 <phenny> Monty: You seem to need to would say no case me.
05:42:00 <Monty> doesn't have hosed itself is interesting
05:42:02 <phenny> Monty: What does that suggest to you ?
05:42:03 <Monty> Oh, right. Yeah. Not mathematical. The colonial navy must not stand on this: Consult other so it's been a language. I guess /misc/procky.py is easy, but thanks d8uv
05:42:05 <Monty> pubes's pathetic life castrates scummy Sonic the Hedgehog...?
05:47:02 <cowan> !kcahwS
05:47:06 <cowan> (shower and bed time)
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08:44:41 <Monty> But what does Cloud_ have to do with the price of fish?
08:44:44 <phenny> Hush there, Monty.
08:44:45 <Monty> that's what to come to basics!
08:44:53 <ham_> *** ham_ (~ham_@host217-34-110-58.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack
08:45:16 <d8uv> phenny, Monty: Quiet
08:45:17 <Monty> boris's cigarettes.
08:45:20 <kandinski> 05:28 <@IdleBot> kandinski learned Perl! This wondrous godsend has accelerated
08:45:20 <kandinski>         them 0 days, 02:11:54 towards level 39.
08:45:23 <phenny> kandinski: 04:32Z <cowan> tell kandinski "Is there a significant difference between the ñ in uña and the ni in unión?"
08:45:44 <d8uv> Hello crapbit!
08:46:25 <Arnia> * Arnia pauses in his task of establishing an outer perimeter to gaze impassively at d8uv
08:47:15 <d8uv> Hi!
08:47:52 <Arnia> Happy day happy day
08:48:40 <Arnia> * Arnia pushes a button on his SuperDooper Control Device and watches gleefully as an atoll sinks beneath super-heated waves
08:54:36 <libby> *** libby has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
09:04:27 <laplink> *** laplink has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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09:08:16 <Cloud_> *** Cloud_ (~john@213-202-160-209.bas503.dsl.esat.net) has joined #swhack
09:12:45 <Cloud__> *** Cloud__ (~john@213-202-160-209.bas503.dsl.esat.net) has joined #swhack
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09:20:48 <kandinski> phenny, tell cowan yes, and better yet, I will make the difference between 'cañón' and 'unión', and between 'tenia' and 'uña', so there is no doubt as to the possible effect of tonic vowels around 'ñ' and 'ni'
09:20:51 <phenny> kandinski: I'll pass that on for you when cowan is around.
09:21:24 <kandinski> phenny, tell cowan and of course, the answer is "yes, there is a significant difference", very much so
09:21:27 <phenny> kandinski: I'll pass that on for you when cowan is around.
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10:04:59 <sbp> Monty: bonkers + boo = ???
10:05:02 <Monty> spoons's neurotransmitter sleeps with delicious bumps.
10:05:20 <d8uv> That is a yes! I WIN
10:05:23 <Arnia> That was almost... poetry
10:05:27 <ham__> *** ham__ (~ham__@host217-34-110-58.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack
10:06:14 <sbp> Arnia! where y0 been ma man?
10:06:24 <d8uv> Or here.
10:06:26 <sbp> I thought we'd lost you to the ether
10:07:14 <Arnia> sbp: Been having router problems that required me to connect and disconnect so many times I decided not to pollute the channel with thirty copies of me :)
10:07:29 <kandinski> spoon's neurotransmitter sleeps with bumps
10:07:38 <Arnia> * Arnia works on connection crashes as a basis for cloning
10:07:52 <kandinski> gay carriages metallic videogames
10:07:53 <sbp> well we have two of Cloud, three of ham[m], and two of me (and often xover and redmonk too), so I wouldn't worry
10:08:17 <Arnia> k :)
10:08:18 <kandinski> incredible full 8 and 2 hey! go
10:08:29 <Arnia> Also, been working on zope3 stuff
10:08:50 <kandinski> then sbp discursive come and go
10:08:54 <sbp> you've gone from IRRITATING BASTARD to ESSENTIAL BEST FRIEND in less time than it takes to boil a reasonably football-sized egg, which is quite an accomplishment
10:09:21 <Arnia> Heh :)
10:09:24 <MoiraA> *** MoiraA (~moira@ACBDB70D.ipt.aol.com) has joined #swhack
10:09:36 <kandinski> incredible Gonzalez (me not here)
10:09:40 <sbp> Moira. how's it going? enjoying the heats again this morning?
10:09:50 <sbp> I only caught a bit of the women's butterfly
10:09:52 <Arnia> * Arnia apologises again for the before
10:09:56 <sbp> nah
10:09:57 <kandinski> olympic sports abound on the TV
10:10:05 <MoiraA> yes, but I've got a mega problem with my main computer
10:10:07 <Arnia> Oooh, that's a nice tense construction
10:10:11 <kandinski> then Gomez Monty hey! this is not fair!
10:10:11 <Monty> freenode
10:10:15 <sbp> if it wasn't for that, there'd be no football sized egg imagery
10:10:18 <Arnia> :)
10:10:21 <sbp> bad Monty. no Freenode
10:10:24 <kandinski> I doubt they'll ever get the likes of me
10:10:30 <Monty> his privmsg preferred if people see you did some swimming for foreings, sure I believe there any thing at some people that since you send to seeing Howcome either,... heh... no. no.
10:10:37 <Arnia> * Arnia gets a saucepan ready
10:10:37 <kandinski> now what are we to do? nonsense is done!
10:10:48 <sbp> the yolk must be bigger than a tennis ball!
10:10:52 <Arnia> Who likes em runny?
10:10:56 <kandinski> and who do you prefer, Monty or me?
10:10:59 <Monty> dunno if there's so i can do X?" Listening to invoke/evoke someone.
10:11:01 <sbp> kinda runny
10:11:18 <kandinski> I think the #swhack has spoke, and so we must
10:11:37 <sbp> basically, if the egg yolk doesn't hold its own but have a liquid center, I send it back. if it is not cooked, I fling it at the chef
10:11:51 <sbp> anyone wanna go out to dinner Friday, incidentally?
10:12:09 <kandinski> Twelve Monkeys come and go... hey, yes, I do!
10:12:09 <sbp> good restaurant. eggs gets a bit undercooked
10:12:19 <sbp> what's a come an'-a go?
10:12:26 <kandinski> Alas, I will not make it, I will be
10:12:36 <kandinski> In Finland where my whim has taken me
10:12:51 <Arnia> sbp: Where's the restaurant?
10:13:48 <sbp> 1 Invented Lane, Hypothetiton, Totally Fuckin' Bogus County, The Preeminent United Conglomoratic States of Fakitude, Pseudoearth
10:14:20 <Arnia> sbp: I hear they do good omlettes
10:14:34 <sbp> they're advertising now? bloody sell-outs!
10:14:57 <Arnia> yeah, astral advertising
10:14:57 <sbp> kandinsk: I thought you went for coffee?
10:15:07 <sbp> The Other AA
10:15:13 <sbp> the third AA, in fact
10:15:16 <kandinski> wifi
10:15:26 <sbp> you went for wifi?
10:15:56 <sbp> .g "Murk Muller"
10:16:00 <phenny> "Murk Muller": http://www.mmrecht.com/
10:16:00 <Arnia> Its a bit annoying to be trying to perform a c'thulu invocation and instead getting a 'superbean' advert
10:16:09 <sbp> heh, heh
10:16:14 <dnm> *** dnm (~dnm@adsl-64-142-81-200.sonic.net) has joined #swhack
10:16:35 <sbp> could be worse: you could invoke Morbus by accident
10:16:38 <sbp> or dnm here
10:16:50 <dnm> ?
10:16:55 <sbp> hi there
10:17:14 <sbp> we're talking about sub-football sized egg yolks
10:17:15 <Arnia> Could be worse... 'Colin and Justin' haven't started taste fascism on the aetheral planes
10:17:40 <libby> *** libby (~libby@s86-13.nomadic.bris.ac.uk) has joined #swhack
10:17:48 <Arnia> * Arnia sends a copy of his Book's NDA to their house
10:17:50 <sbp> hmm. Channel "5". that's interesting. when did they agree to that?
10:17:55 <sbp> heh, heh
10:17:59 <sbp> libby!
10:18:03 <sbp> join the fray, dude
10:18:37 <sbp> egg yolk conversations, NDAs, kandinsk's wifi/coffee confusion, d8uv's general being stompeditude, and fakery of restaurants. only on Swhack! (and maybe #d8uv.com too)
10:18:48 <ham__> *** ham__ has quit ("bbiab")
10:19:17 <Arnia> * Arnia pours some wireless coffee
10:19:27 <Arnia> Anyone care for a cup?
10:19:30 <sbp> decaf with no strings attached!
10:19:38 <libby> heh
10:19:40 <libby> mornin'
10:19:44 <Arnia> libby: We have wireless tea too :)
10:21:25 <libby> oh, excellent :)
10:21:30 <libby> yes please!
10:21:39 <Arnia> * Arnia pours a camp cup
10:21:46 <libby> no tea or coffee here at work till the next delivery :(
10:22:00 <libby> which is today but still
10:22:02 <Arnia> Today's camp cup is 'ivory with gold and burgendy highlights'
10:22:02 <sbp> a camp cup? a cup that likes similarly gendered cups, or a cup that can serve a large amount of people?
10:22:17 <sbp> ah. a cup for camp folk
10:22:25 <libby> lovely
10:22:30 <sbp> yep
10:22:42 <Arnia> Perhaps Colin and Justin have gotten on the Astral after all :/
10:22:44 <sbp> if you're into Gold and Burgundy clash
10:22:50 <sbp> heheh
10:24:39 <Arnia> * Arnia used to go out with someone who looked like Colin
10:24:55 <Arnia> So I have a natural distrust anyway...
10:25:15 <ham_> *** ham_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
10:26:02 <sbp> oh, libs!
10:26:14 <sbp> hang on, finding URI. got five minutes?
10:27:50 <sbp> libby: http://www.thehob.co.uk/northerner.asp
10:28:21 <libby> * libby looks
10:28:40 <sbp> since you're the only northerner I know, thought I might as well test it out thoroughly. it correctly guessed for me, which I'm a bit irritated about; I say "aye" and "th'[word]" all the time
10:29:39 <d8uv> sbp: What about me? :(
10:29:57 <sbp> you're in the arctic cirle, aren't you? I think you blew the test of the scale
10:30:10 <sbp> (just below the Arctic Circle, I know)
10:30:15 <Arnia> sbp: Wow, they put Bucks in the right region for once ;)
10:30:20 <sbp> heh, heh
10:30:30 <sbp> south midlands
10:30:39 <Arnia> Well, south-central
10:30:43 <Arnia> But I accept either
10:30:55 <Arnia> Just a word of advice - BUCKS IS NOT IN THE SOUTH-EAST!
10:31:05 <Arnia> I'm done now :)
10:31:10 <Arnia> * Arnia feels a lot better for that
10:31:19 <sbp> it's not south-central, surely--otherwise you're lumping yourself in with Dorset, Hampshire, and Wiltshire
10:32:15 <libby> crap, I'm a southern fairy
10:32:19 <sbp> heh!
10:32:30 <sbp> you've been in Brizzle too long
10:32:36 <libby> but I've lived in the south for 10 years. maybe that's why :/
10:32:40 <Arnia> Dorset is south-west...
10:32:48 <sbp> it's a shame they don't give an analysis to tell you how you went
10:32:50 <Arnia> Bucks is directly above Hampshire though
10:33:11 <Cloud_> *** Cloud_ has quit (Connection timed out)
10:33:15 <sbp> Dorset? when what do you call Cornwall, Devon, and Somerset? west-south-west?
10:33:34 <sbp> Devon's huge. it deserves a cardinal direction all its own
10:33:39 <Arnia> west west south west :)
10:33:43 <sbp> heh
10:33:47 <sbp> that's the Scilly Isles
10:34:00 <sbp> or the colonies...
10:34:07 <sbp> (well, ex-colonies I guess)
10:34:47 <Arnia> `YOU ARE A NORTHERN BASTARD'
10:34:50 <Arnia> Yay! :)
10:35:10 <sbp> I guess it could've gone either way for you
10:35:37 <sbp> the old Home "limboland" Counties
10:35:57 <Arnia> I spend half my time in Durham, half in Bucks... I'm kinda cardinally ambiguous
10:36:04 <sbp> actually no; given your... yeah
10:37:11 <d8uv> Hmm... I think my state is bigger than your entire country...
10:37:37 <sbp> don't forget Northern Ireland
10:37:40 <sbp> and Wales
10:37:48 <d8uv> I'm not.
10:37:51 <sbp> hmm
10:38:21 <Arnia> d8uv: Most likely, but your population density won't be half as high - nor the variety of landscape
10:38:30 <Arnia> (unless you're from New Zealand)
10:38:38 <sbp> the variety of landscape probably is pretty high
10:38:53 <sbp> forest, tundra, mountains, islands, urban...
10:39:06 <sbp> not as rad though
10:39:16 <sbp> also, no history whatsoever
10:39:29 <sbp> and Bush as president (though safely several thousand miles away)
10:39:58 <d8uv> The UK is slightly smaller than Oregon.
10:40:44 <Arnia> I often wind up certain ex-colonials by saying 'the cheap student house I lived in in my second year is older than the US' *ducks*
10:40:44 <d8uv> sbp: We have history! Just not a lot of it. Enough to maybe tell in 15 minutes. Maybe.
10:41:14 <sbp> people came from Russia
10:41:19 <sbp> then from Europe
10:41:23 <MoiraA> *** MoiraA has quit ("leaving")
10:41:29 <sbp> they set up a government for people to pursue liberty
10:41:31 <sbp> they failed
10:41:36 <sbp> *and* produced Bill Gates
10:41:37 <sbp> the end
10:41:57 <Arnia> Well, we all know what happened to the only democracy that ever was
10:42:06 <sbp> oh?
10:42:27 <d8uv> Re the bush jab: At least we don't have a sissy leader!
10:42:35 <Arnia> *sings* Peloponnesia! Peloponnesia!
10:42:59 <sbp> sissy? the guy who totally wussed out of his USAF service isn't a sissy?
10:43:00 <Arnia> d8uv: John Prescott is in charge atm, god help us
10:43:06 <sbp> at least ours was in a rock group
10:43:37 <sbp> I have this odd feeling that somehow, somewhere, Thatcher is still in charge
10:43:54 <d8uv> sbp: Oh yeah? Our told the world to go "stuff it". Doesn't get more badas... wait, that sounds like the average LJ user.
10:43:57 <d8uv> Nevermind.
10:44:36 <Arnia> sbp: That is possibly the scariest thing I've heard all year
10:44:43 <sbp> nah, your average LJ user says "It's actually a Notice, not a privmsg"
10:44:57 <sbp> Arnia: sorry. try not to have nightmares (you can always emigrate!)
10:45:01 <Arnia> *sings* Peloponnesia
10:45:06 <Arnia> Ahem
10:45:17 <d8uv> Thatcher rocks.
10:45:34 <Arnia> Rocks in the way getting stoned does
10:45:47 <sbp> heh!
10:46:16 <sbp> best. clarification. evvah
10:47:13 <Arnia> Regarding the emigration comment, I suspect that thatcher is still in charge world-wide
10:47:55 <Arnia> I can see her staging a coup for control of Dis
10:48:44 <d8uv> Hmm... I'm voting "Thatcher for President"!
10:50:05 <Cloud_> *** Cloud_ (~john@deri-pc015.nuigalway.ie) has joined #swhack
10:50:13 <Arnia> Great... the most right-wing leader of modern times ruling the most imperialist country around atm... that's not a pretty combination you know
10:50:18 <d8uv> So, what's up #swhack?
10:51:04 <d8uv> Imperialist? Nah, We're just in Cold War 2.
10:51:29 <d8uv> But politics talk sucks.
10:51:33 <Arnia> Why do we have to be in it?
10:52:23 <d8uv> Bush Doctrine and such.
10:52:49 <Arnia> I can't wait for Durham to assert its independence again
10:53:24 <Arnia> (it only integrated its legal system into the rest of the UK in the 70s :p)
10:53:55 <d8uv> Heh. I'm guessing that's like... my state leaving the US.
10:54:56 <Arnia> Its supposed to devolve soon anyway
10:55:16 <MoiraA> *** MoiraA (~ihatebt@ACBDB70D.ipt.aol.com) has joined #swhack
10:55:18 <Arnia> I wish I knew what the north-west and yorkshire have against devolving the regions
10:55:20 <d8uv> POLITICS TALK IS SUCK
10:55:41 <d8uv> @topic remove 2
10:55:42 <supybot> *** supybot has changed the topic to: ANYOP
10:55:54 <Arnia> * Arnia profers a sheet of vellum to d8uv
10:56:28 <Arnia> Sign the petition against politics
10:56:38 <d8uv> * d8uv eats vellum, wonders what vellum is.
10:56:56 <Arnia> Skin
10:57:17 <Arnia> * Arnia wonders what effect ingestion has on an unholy pact
10:57:24 <d8uv> Oh. Hm, That was pretty good skin.
10:57:32 <Arnia> I'm curious to watch this now
10:57:36 <d8uv> Where was that from? The back?
10:57:45 <kandinski> the best cut
10:57:54 <kandinski> well, the best is the belly, really
10:58:02 <d8uv> Of course. Just the right amount of salty.
10:58:04 <kandinski> Arnia, was that a Palimpsest?
10:58:19 <kandinski> because if it is, d8uv, someone ate that before you did
10:58:46 <d8uv> I thought I tasted a hint of nutmeg!
10:59:47 <d8uv> * d8uv burps
11:00:00 <d8uv> Is that all? Just a bit of gas? That's disapp...
11:00:04 <d8uv> * d8uv explodes
11:00:22 <Arnia> sbp: Better than the secratery
11:00:41 <Cloud_> *** Cloud_ has quit ()
11:01:04 <Arnia> Does anyone have some dark robes of the occult to cover this mess?
11:02:42 <d8uv> * d8uv reassembles
11:02:48 <d8uv> Whoo, that was fun.
11:02:52 <d8uv> Got any more?
11:03:32 <Arnia> * Arnia looks very disheartened
11:03:40 <kandinski> * kandinski hands d8uv a piece of virgin vellum
11:03:56 <Arnia> * Arnia performs the requisite incantation
11:04:02 <kandinski> for control, see whether it is just lambskin that you are alergic to, or what
11:04:34 <d8uv> Virgin vellum? Man... That's so lame.
11:04:48 <d8uv> I have like a ream of that stuff right here!
11:04:55 <d8uv> * d8uv points to self
11:05:29 <d8uv> Oh well.
11:05:35 <d8uv> * d8uv eats the vellum
11:06:32 <kandinski> heh
11:06:36 <d8uv> Let's make this interesting...
11:06:41 <kandinski> nicest typo in ages
11:07:02 <d8uv> * d8uv makes offending gestures up at the sky
11:07:12 <kandinski> * kandinski had used a special type of invisible ink that reacts to HCl
11:07:23 <kandinski> * the spell becomes visible again...
11:07:37 <kandinski> you better not move much now, dude
11:08:01 <d8uv> Why not? What am I going to do, explode?
11:08:03 <Arnia> kandinski: Rocker spells are fun... which one did you use? Not that one...
11:08:04 <d8uv> OH NOES
11:08:14 <d8uv> I've only done that about a billion times!
11:08:22 <Arnia> * Arnia watches d8uv turn to antimatter
11:08:45 <d8uv> Ooh! I should eat that too!
11:08:57 <d8uv> * d8uv eats his own antimatter! EXCITING
11:09:09 <d8uv> * d8uv explodes
11:10:07 <d8uv> * d8uv reassembles.
11:10:16 <d8uv> Well. That was boring.
11:10:30 <d8uv> Add some cayenne to the next bit!
11:10:30 <Arnia> d8uv: Its designed to recycle
11:10:55 <Arnia> * Arnia grins as d8uv explodes again
11:11:23 <d8uv> <Ghost> Hmm... Nice. didn't see that coming!
11:12:07 <d8uv> <Ghost> Sorry if I got a bit of gore on you. It should wash off, but those robes do look kinda expensive.
11:12:17 <kandinski> * kandinski waits for the big anvil...
11:12:34 <kandinski> (there was a big anvil involved, this was the ACME spell)
11:12:38 <d8uv> * d8uv reappears
11:12:40 <Arnia> Dark robes of the occult are guaranteed gore-proof. Don't worry about it
11:12:58 <d8uv> Oh. That's nice! I need some of those.
11:13:35 <d8uv> Hmm, kandinski, why are you putting on the goggles?
11:13:37 <d8uv> Oh.
11:13:41 <d8uv> * d8uv is flat now
11:14:29 <d8uv> * d8uv pops back into shape; looks around
11:14:38 <d8uv> Man, this place is a mess, sorry sbp!
11:14:54 <d8uv> I'll clean up... myself...
11:15:18 <libby> *** libby has quit (Remote closed the connection)
11:16:15 <d8uv> Hmm... this all reminds me of a commercial.
11:16:39 <Arnia> What commercial would that be?
11:17:00 <d8uv> "I'm not going to eat that vellum." "Let's give it to d8uv! He'll eat anything!" ... "He likes it! *boom* Hey! d8uv!"
11:17:47 <Arnia> You ate it all on your own
11:17:53 <Arnia> No prompting needed
11:18:44 <d8uv> That was a joke. Why don't you conjure up a spell to screw yourself!
11:19:35 <kandinski> * kandinski writes the doppleganger spell
11:19:38 <Arnia> I already have... autoerotic occultism is a specialism of mine
11:19:45 <kandinski> * kandinski intones the doppleganger spell
11:20:00 <kandinski> * kandinski conjures up the sex change spell
11:20:00 <libby> *** libby (~libby@s86-19.nomadic.bris.ac.uk) has joined #swhack
11:20:12 <Arnia> kandinski: See, I have an advantage there :p
11:20:18 <kandinski> * kandinski screws himself...
11:20:22 <kandinski> hi, libby
11:20:38 <libby> * libby waves
11:20:49 <kandinski> oops, don't mind me...
11:21:47 <Arnia> libby: We haven't got much further than potty training I'm afraid. Social niceties will have to wait
11:21:50 <Arnia> Ahem
11:22:17 <d8uv> * d8uv looks below him
11:22:19 <d8uv> Uhoh!
11:22:28 <kandinski> dohs!
11:22:43 <kandinski> unoh! dohs! trehs! kwatroh!
11:22:51 <kandinski> S-Express!
11:22:54 <kandinski_> *** kandinski_ (~candyman@80.26.154.75) has joined #swhack
11:23:04 <d8uv> * d8uv turns into a rabbit
11:23:09 <kandinski_> * kandinski_ waves too
11:23:11 <d8uv> kandinski, you ass!
11:23:22 <kandinski> my ass?
11:23:30 <kandinski> both my asses?
11:23:39 <kandinski_> either of them, really
11:23:45 <kandinski_> nice ass, by the way
11:23:48 <kandinski> * kandinski grins
11:23:51 <kandinski> thanks
11:26:57 <kandinski_> * kandinski_ snogs kandinski
11:27:17 <kandinski> * kandinski leans into the embrace
11:27:54 <Arnia> Am I the only one perturbed by this?
11:28:38 <libby> nope
11:29:41 <Arnia> libby: Come join me in the tea parlour, away from this mess
11:29:57 <libby> ooh, tea!
11:29:57 <Arnia> * Arnia lays a small table in the corner
11:30:29 <kandinski> * kandinski performs a quick incantation
11:30:33 <Arnia> Lapsang Souchong ok with you?
11:30:35 <kandinski_> *** kandinski_ has quit ("Leaving")
11:30:42 <kandinski> did anyone mention tea?
11:31:02 <kandinski> * kandinski brings his own teacup and saucer
11:31:28 <kandinski> I won't be needing a spoon, thanks
11:31:46 <d8uv> Can I join in the tea gathering?
11:31:56 <Arnia> d8uv: Pull up a mushroom
11:32:07 <d8uv> Sure!
11:32:16 <d8uv> * d8uv pulls up a mushroom
11:32:42 <Arnia> * Arnia performs rite of tea making and sends the accourtrements rushing around the room in a tea-making dance of delight
11:33:06 <d8uv> Thanks for letting me join... I don't have a cup, when the time comes just pour a cupful into my mouth.
11:33:24 <Arnia> Ok, libby, would you care to turn the teapot widdershins thrice for me please?
11:34:20 <Arnia> This is nothing to do with good luck or fortune telling, its just because I really fancy a teapot mark on this table and you just can't fake them
11:35:04 <kandinski> ooh, "widdershins"
11:35:08 <libby> heh.
11:35:31 <Arnia> *monotone* Colin And Justin Say Its So
11:36:00 <Arnia> *eyes refocus* ok, so who's first for a cup of tea?
11:36:00 <libby> * libby gotta get some food
11:36:07 <libby> l8rs
11:36:12 <Arnia> bye
11:36:14 <kandinski> * kandinski offers some home-made pestiños
11:36:19 <kandinski> ah, not good
11:36:26 <kandinski> the ñ, I mean
11:36:30 <kandinski> bye libs
11:38:08 <Arnia> * Arnia pours coffee down d8uv's trousers
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11:44:32 <MoiraA> *** MoiraA (~ihatebt@ACBDB70D.ipt.aol.com) has joined #swhack
11:44:32 <Monty> hi MoiraA, how ya doing?
11:44:35 <phenny> Monty: shh, don't let anyone know you're around!
11:44:43 <Monty> [02:38:21] <sh1mmer> So if you've done/shown nothing to AaronSw is logging makes some laughs, but it deserves a screaming child who have decimal nuttiness
11:44:47 <MoiraA> lo you two bots
11:45:22 <Arnia> Actually, I could imagine Tom saying something like that :p
11:49:43 <Arnia22> *** Arnia22 (~jgeldart@host81-156-180-208.range81-156.btcentralplus.com) has joined #swhack
11:50:39 <Arnia> *** Arnia has quit (Nick collision from services.)
11:50:46 <Arnia22> *** Arnia22 is now known as Arnia
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12:40:40 <crschmidt> Python is a pretty cool language
12:40:47 <crschmidt> but i hear some people have trouble learning the regex engine
12:40:53 <crschmidt> Kandinski, do you have that problem?
12:41:19 <kandinski> well, I just started
12:41:27 <kandinski> read the first page:
12:41:37 <kandinski> http://docs.python.org/lib/module-re.html
12:41:40 <crschmidt> * crschmidt was just creating a leadin :)
12:41:55 <kandinski> this is the *first thing* anyone sees about regexes
12:42:13 <eikeon> *** eikeon (~eikeon@pcp08443104pcs.flrdav01.dc.comcast.net) has joined #swhack
12:42:16 <kandinski> btw, I think the backslash should be escaped with a different character
12:42:29 <kandinski> or some other solution
12:42:31 <kpreid> standards!
12:42:46 <laplink> *** laplink has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
12:42:51 <kandinski> standards?
12:43:13 <laplink> *** laplink (~link@212.130.111.240) has joined #swhack
12:43:13 <Monty> Thank goodness, laplink is back!
12:43:16 <phenny> Be quiet, Monty.
12:43:16 <kpreid> everyone but Lua and MOO uses \ for escaping in regexes
12:43:16 <Monty> jugs
12:43:37 <kpreid> Monty, bottles!
12:43:38 <Monty> deltab: JibberJim hahaha
12:44:03 <kandinski> no, \ is ok
12:44:15 <kandinski> but \\\\ sucks
12:44:23 <kpreid> oh python strings
12:44:23 <kandinski> r "\\" is good, though
12:44:35 <kandinski> yep
12:45:28 <kpreid> eel: "foo\bar" =~ rx`.*\\.*`
12:45:39 <eel> # value: false
12:45:49 <kpreid> oops!
12:45:53 <kpreid> eel: "foo\\bar" =~ rx`.*\\.*`
12:45:55 <eel> # value: true
12:46:06 <kpreid> anyway, no double-escaping there! *gloat*
12:47:24 <kandinski> nyanyanyanya
12:47:27 <kandinski> showoff!
12:47:30 <kandinski> (crapbit)
12:48:32 <crschmidt> heh
12:49:02 <kpreid> eel: accum "" for x in "t"+"h"*3 { _+x+"e"*2 }
12:49:04 <eel> # problem: <IllegalArgumentException: Doesn't match any overload>
12:49:12 <kpreid> buh?
12:49:17 <kpreid> eel, stack
12:49:39 <kpreid> oh foo
12:49:48 <crschmidt> did he die?
12:50:09 <kpreid> nah, the stack command replies privately for low-spam
12:50:14 <kpreid> eel: accum "" for x in ["t"]+["h"]*3 { _+x+"e"*2 }
12:50:15 <eel> # value: "teeheeheehee"
12:50:16 <crschmidt> ah
12:50:23 <crschmidt> heh
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12:53:57 <deusx> *** deusx (~deusx@216.17.101.46) has joined #swhack
12:53:57 <Monty> hi deusx, how ya doing?
12:53:59 <phenny> Monty: shh, don't let anyone know you're around!
12:54:00 <Monty> test
12:55:04 <deusx> I SEE THE MONTY
12:55:06 <Monty> destroys succulent analogue housewife!!!
12:55:43 <laplink> "<kpreid> buh? eel, stack. oh foo!" - heh heh.
12:56:07 <laplink> Reading that while watching anime, it made _perfect_ sense. :-)
13:01:50 <MoiraA> *** MoiraA (~ihatebt@ACBDB70D.ipt.aol.com) has joined #swhack
13:12:43 <kpreid> * kpreid wonders if he should be worried.
13:12:57 <crschmidt> yes.
13:15:11 <eikeon> *** eikeon has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
13:15:54 <sal> *** sal (~salvatore@158.229.10.193) has joined #swhack
13:15:54 <Monty> hi sal, how ya doing?
13:15:57 <phenny> Monty: shh, don't let anyone know you're around!
13:16:04 <Monty> .w Metis really. Bring hack for you deserve it made all I'll feed #swhack a fact, with him with high-speed connection is me now its entirety:
13:16:07 <phenny> I couldn't find Metis really. Bring hack for you deserve it made all I'll feed #swhack a fact, with him with high-speed connection is me now its entirety: in WordNet.
13:16:30 <crschmidt> heh
13:17:45 <laplink> phenny you airhead. Quit letting Monty set you off!
13:17:47 <Monty> change the project names tho ;)
13:18:12 <laplink> Why? You don't like the name "phenny" Monty?
13:18:14 <Monty> shits is slowest and uncountable...?
13:18:33 <laplink> No, not really. What made you say that Monty?
13:18:34 <Monty> English (Anglo-Saxon)
13:19:07 <kpreid> heh heh
13:19:13 <laplink> I hate it when Monty makes more sense than me.
13:19:14 <Monty> roxolani
13:20:18 <deusx> You're all "Monty, Monty, Monty!"
13:20:21 <Monty> captains courageous, attorney general, etc. as ringtones?
13:21:18 <deusx> It actually took me a few times, starting off the lurking for the day, to realize Monty was a bot.
13:21:20 <Monty> smells sibilant magnetic breakfast!!!
13:28:42 <libby_> *** libby_ (~libby@s86-4.nomadic.bris.ac.uk) has joined #swhack
13:37:38 <libby> *** libby has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
13:42:00 <libby_> *** libby_ is now known as libby
13:44:36 <laplink> Given the modus operandi of some of the others on here, I'm not surprised. :-)
14:10:26 <Cloud> *** Cloud is now known as Cloud^Work
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14:21:29 <crschmidt> * crschmidt sighs. I won't want to work.
14:25:12 <kandinski> crschmidt: don't
14:25:16 <kandinski> you don't have to
14:26:08 <redmonk> *** redmonk (~steve@208.38.224.146) has joined #swhack
14:26:30 <Jibbler> considering the "First Annual Google Programming Contest" was held at the start of 2002, i'm surprised we haven't seen another one yet
14:27:29 <kpreid> Clearly it was also the Last Annual.
14:27:54 <kandinski> attention: phishing URL -> http://220.249.101.206/confirm/
14:28:37 <kandinski> it looks legitimate, I wonder how they manage to extract the user/password from the page this one refreshes to
14:29:33 <Jibbler> maybe they don't
14:29:46 <kandinski> so what is the point of the pseudospam?
14:30:09 <kandinski> it wouldn't be spam then, or phishing, just a wrong email address?
14:30:16 <kandinski> (I got three of these this morning)
14:30:32 <crschmidt> Perhaps someone already got ahold of the people running it?
14:30:39 <Jibbler> nod
14:30:51 <crschmidt> That would be my guess.
14:30:58 <Jibbler> would have been less confusing to just make it do nothing though
14:31:03 <crschmidt> Some of these viruses that send these things have been out there for months and are still running around
14:31:19 <kandinski> crschmidt: yep, it has been diverted to a legitimate page, hmm
14:31:24 <kandinski> would make sense
14:31:55 <kandinski> still, wouldn't it make more sense to redirect to a Customer Education Page with an Explanation and a Clue?
14:32:14 <crschmidt> No, because then they admit that there was a possibility someone might have given up their information
14:32:56 <crschmidt> I highly doubt a bank would be very happy about telling customers "you mighta been hacked"
14:33:07 <crschmidt> They SHOULD, yes, but it's unlikely they would
14:37:12 <laplink> *** laplink has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
14:41:30 <kandinski> they should
14:41:42 <kandinski> laws should be drafted to make banks do just that
14:41:50 <kandinski> after all, it was not the banks fault
14:42:09 <kandinski> it was their own customers' if they fell for it
14:42:35 <crschmidt> yeah, I know. I'm just making guesses :)
14:43:35 <kandinski> yes, banks deny everything
14:43:48 <kandinski> I know a very funny story about a bank that was hacked
14:44:25 <kandinski> and the culprits were tracked down because this friend of mine uploaded a rootkit to the bank's computer
14:44:43 <kandinski> this "rootkit" was basically the crackers' own, but with a call home feature
14:44:55 <kandinski> he added a point to the version numbers
14:45:34 <kandinski> and the guys, who were the scriptiest of script kiddies, said "wow cool", downloaded it, *compiled it*, ran it, started broadcasting their IP
14:45:40 <kandinski> piece of cake
14:45:47 <kandinski> heh
14:45:57 <kandinski> the bank paid him handsomely to keep mum
14:46:05 <kandinski> so he has told no one, ever
14:46:11 <kandinski> not once
14:46:19 <kandinski> not drunk, not sober
14:46:30 <crschmidt> * crschmidt snerks
14:51:25 <kandinski> well, maybe once, very drunk
14:51:31 <kandinski> but he denied it all afterwards
14:51:36 <crschmidt> How do you know, then?
14:51:52 <kandinski> there you go
14:52:10 <crschmidt> oh
14:52:12 <crschmidt> i get it
14:52:26 <crschmidt> "he"
14:52:27 <crschmidt> gotcha
14:55:57 <laplink> *** laplink (~link@212.130.111.240) has joined #swhack
14:55:57 <Monty> hey laplink
14:55:57 <laplink_> *** laplink_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
15:10:52 <kandinski> no, really, he
15:10:55 <kandinski> not me, he
15:11:28 <kandinski> but he does tell, in private, when there is no-one around who might repeat his name or the name of the bank
15:11:51 <kandinski> but the story is too good not to tell: these guys *compiled* their own spyware!
15:11:57 <kandinski> heh!
15:40:25 <libby> *** libby has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:49:01 <sal> for those of you taking medication, its @700.
15:49:43 <crschmidt> heh
15:49:46 <crschmidt> swatch time!
15:55:24 <laplink> .t swatch
15:55:28 <phenny> Sorry, I don't know about time zone SWATCH.
15:55:39 <laplink> I don't blame you phenny.
15:55:51 <crschmidt> I don't think anyone really does.
15:56:01 <crschmidt> Although! I had a friend who implemented the time system for LiveJournal
15:56:16 <crschmidt> So you could display your time in Swatch Time
15:56:26 <kandinski> trademark geek
15:56:46 <kandinski> and metric geek
15:57:01 <kandinski> I am sure there are people who kit their computer mods in cartier logos
15:57:19 <kandinski> with Vuitton print for their desktop papers
15:57:20 <kpreid> I thought there was some bot here that had a command to display it..
15:57:42 <laplink> * laplink looks forward to seeing the TAG go head to head with the IOC...
15:58:07 <kpreid> .acronym IOC
15:58:14 <phenny> IOC: International Olympic Committee -/- Images-On-Call (teleradiology system) -/- Immediate or Cancel (trade order) -/- Impact Over Cost -/- Independent Operating Carrier -/- Independent Operating Company -/- Index of Cooperation (ITU-T) -/- Indian Ocean Commission -/- Indian Oil Corporation, Ltd -/- Industrial Operations Command -/- Information Operations Center -/- Initial Operating Capability
15:59:24 <laplink> Athens Olympics site policy regarding links to the site (TAG vs. IOC: The Grudge Match!): http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2004Aug/0029
15:59:25 <swhacker> posted 560
15:59:41 <kpreid> oh that
15:59:51 <laplink> 560: Anybody want to give me odds on this one? :-)
16:02:17 <NickServ> This nickname is owned by someone else
16:02:17 <NickServ> If this is your nickname, type /msg NickServ IDENTIFY <password>
16:05:39 <kandinski> Fight!
16:05:41 <kandinski> Fight!
16:05:52 <kandinski> naaah!
16:06:09 <crschmidt> wait, xover anda d8uv aren't bots
16:08:33 <Arnia> * Arnia stomps back into the room and plonks himself down in the gothic wingchair in a huff
16:09:42 <redmonk> * redmonk eyes Arnia
16:10:08 <sal> Oooo. Can i have a wingchair?
16:10:11 <sal> certainly a gothic one.
16:10:41 <crschmidt> * crschmidt waves to Arnia
16:10:49 <crschmidt> What news from the Mark?
16:10:49 <Arnia> * Arnia clicks a talon and two new wingchairs pop up out of the ground
16:11:44 <sal> a talon?
16:11:44 <redmonk> * redmonk googly
16:16:09 <crschmidt> Oh, I was just reminded by the idea of talons.
16:16:19 <crschmidt> Guess who sent another massively CC'ed email today?
16:17:35 <crschmidt> If you guessed Marc Canter, you would be right!
16:17:46 <crschmidt> And it contained.... (drumroll please)
16:17:54 <crschmidt> A link to his blog.
16:19:10 <Arnia> crschmidt: His *gasp* blog?
16:19:32 <crschmidt> Because, of course, anyone who cared to read things in his blog wouldn't already be reading them.
16:19:43 <crschmidt> So he has to email out links to 20 odd people, to make sure they see it.
16:20:02 <crschmidt> Hello! I comment on your blog on a regular basis! you do not need to email me links to it, obviously I am reading it already. :P
16:24:02 <bjoern_> *** bjoern_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:28:24 <JibberJim> *** JibberJim (~Jim@dsl-217-155-143-69.zen.co.uk) has joined #swhack
16:32:56 <kpreid> .w hyperthesis
16:32:59 <phenny> I couldn't find hyperthesis in WordNet.
16:33:07 <kpreid> .gc hyperthesis
16:33:12 <phenny> hyperthesis: 1,090
16:33:19 <Arnia> .w hysterisis
16:33:22 <phenny> I couldn't find hysterisis in WordNet.
16:33:30 <kpreid> .w hysteresis
16:33:33 <phenny> hysteresis is defined as:-
16:33:36 <phenny> 1. the lagging of an effect behind its cause; especially the phenomenon in which the magnetic induction of a ferromagnetic material lags behind the changing magnetic field
16:34:15 <Arnia> Or rubber's behaviour under stretching
16:45:59 <jetscreamer> *** jetscreamer (~jetscream@adsl-64-219-216-41.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net) has joined #swhack
16:46:22 <crschmidt> Cool, just got a python app to connect to a server, download the text, and put it in a text control
16:47:56 <Arnia> Python is cool
16:48:04 <Arnia> * Arnia goes back to cuddling Zope3
16:50:18 <JibberJim> *** JibberJim has left #swhack
16:54:29 <libby> *** libby (~libby@82-32-5-17.cable.ubr01.azte.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #swhack
17:02:38 <crschmidt> wow. http://www.athens2004.com/athens2004/page/legacy?lang=en&cid=dd7e01e3ac979f00VgnVCMServer28130b0aRCRD is dumb.
17:02:49 <crschmidt> "You can only link to us if you write to us and ask to link."
17:02:55 <jetscreamer> *** jetscreamer has quit ("tough luck... (infamous 20th century poet)")
17:04:10 <kandinski> most stupid thing I have ever heard
17:04:14 <kandinski> well, one of the most
17:04:43 <kandinski> boingboing posted the most retarded one some time ago
17:09:03 <thelsdj> *** thelsdj has quit ("leaving")
17:15:13 <Arnia> Which was?
17:15:41 <kandinski> some company linking policy
17:16:02 <kandinski> add a genitive after the second word
17:16:35 <crschmidt> .w genitive
17:16:38 <phenny> genitive is defined as:-
17:16:41 <phenny> 1. the case expressing ownership
17:16:42 <phenny> 2. serving to express or indicate possession; "possessive pronouns"; "the genitive endings"
17:19:13 <kandinski> s/company/company's/, I meant
17:19:16 <kandinski> I am a pedant that way
17:20:49 <crschmidt> * crschmidt nods.
17:24:52 <kandinski> * kandinski nods back
17:25:05 <kandinski> it is called the saxon genitive, I did not name it
17:25:29 <crschmidt> * crschmidt nods to kandinski nodding
17:26:54 <Arnia> Interestingly, the genitive case in English behaves a lot like a determiner
17:27:28 <kandinski> yep
17:27:56 <kandinski> in Spanish we have to use the definite article in all cases of saxon genitive that I know of
17:28:16 <Arnia> * Arnia incants, 'nouns describe, adjectives restrict, determiners bind'
17:28:27 <kandinski> bind
17:28:30 <kandinski> I like that
17:29:26 <Arnia> Well their behaviour is to bind a referetial index to one or more possible referents (either as a set or as individuals)
17:30:12 <kandinski> Arnia, NPR had a stupid link policy (may not have it anyymore)
17:30:21 <kandinski> but KPMG took the prize
17:30:23 <kandinski> http://www.boingboing.net/2001/12/05/reason_4332442_not_t.html
17:32:38 <Arnia> KPMG *are* a law firm :)
17:33:16 <Arnia> (in part)
17:33:16 <kandinski> I suppose that is part of the irony of the situation
17:34:05 <Arnia> A large proportion of my friends are going to end up working for KPMG, Deloitte, Accenture or PwC
17:34:09 <Arnia> Very depressing
17:36:02 <laplink> Friends Don't Let Friends Become Conslutants!
17:36:30 <Arnia> *I* am a consultant :)
17:36:36 <Arnia> Just an independent one
17:36:40 <kandinski> con slut ant
17:36:48 <laplink> There's a difference.
17:37:11 <kandinski> KDAP
17:37:21 <kandinski> yes, it is depressing
17:37:23 <laplink> And as far as I'm concerned, it's open season on PwC's vermin.
17:37:40 <kandinski> add McKinsey's to the open season
17:38:00 <kandinski> or should it be "McKinsey's's"?
17:38:17 <laplink> Deloitte has actually been reasonably usefull the one time I've been directly exposed to them.
17:40:14 <Arnia> I can't believe any of that four could possibly be useful
17:41:05 <laplink> They produced a legal thingy that justified us doing what we want to do, despite it seemingly being impossible in the intersection of three sets of laws.
17:42:25 <Arnia> Ok, I'll accept that :)
17:43:48 <jcowan> *** jcowan (~jcowan@a7cebc03.cst.lightpath.net) has joined #swhack
17:43:48 <Monty> hi jcowan
17:44:27 <jcowan> Ho, Monty.
17:44:29 <Monty> palindrome: http://bash.org/?376790
17:44:30 <phenny> jcowan: 13 Aug 22:56Z <sbp> tell jcowan thanks for alltools!
17:44:34 <phenny> jcowan: 14 Aug 17:12Z <kandinski> tell jcowan someone recommended me a gtk-based editor for windows that can be scripted in Lua: Scite
17:45:19 <jcowan> Gak, Monty, is that what your associative memory calls up for "palindrome"?
17:45:21 <Monty> "Two apples" (lit. "two rice" does his own.
17:45:23 <jcowan> Monty: purge memory
17:45:24 <Monty> his blog.
17:45:38 <jcowan> * Monty has been lobotomized
17:45:40 <Monty> You see, daft is buggered :P
17:45:47 <jcowan> You can say that again.
17:49:08 <kandinski> jcowan, I got your unión/cañón thing
17:49:13 <kandinski> they are very different
17:49:50 <kandinski> in fact you can make the aumentative uñón (big nail) that is a completely different word from "unión" based only on the ñ/ni opposition
17:50:22 <kandinski> -ión is a diphthong: iod tonic o en
17:50:46 <jcowan> Do you think that "ni" is more like "n+y" or like "ñ+y"?
17:50:57 <kandinski> ñón has the palatal nasal affricate ñ
17:51:15 <kandinski> common to all romance languages (well maybe not to Romanian, I will have to ask)
17:51:48 <kandinski> Spanish is the only one that makes a new letter for it, the n+tilde is alphabetised separately, not like e+acute accent, for instance
17:52:34 <kandinski> french and italian use 'gn', catalan 'ny', gallego and portuguese 'nh'...
17:52:49 <kandinski> hope that answers your query
17:53:03 <kandinski> although it was cowan's and not jcowan's, I now realise
17:53:30 <jcowan> I am cowan and jcowan.
17:53:43 <kandinski> heh, I know
17:53:52 <kandinski> difference between work and home, iirc
17:54:04 <jcowan> Partially, but I still don't know whether n followed by iod is palatalized or not.
17:54:17 <kandinski> I think not
17:54:23 <kandinski> maybe in some dialects
17:54:39 <kandinski> it certainly is derived from there
17:54:58 <jcowan> How, derived?
17:54:59 <kandinski> Latin minion gives Spanish miñón
17:55:16 <kandinski> historically derived
17:55:23 <kandinski> but other words do not
17:55:51 <jcowan> Ah.
17:55:51 <kandinski> I have a friend who writes stuff like "uñón" in jest, so that makes me think some dialects do palatalise the n
17:56:02 <kandinski> but not mine, nor normative Spanish in Spain
17:56:21 <kandinski> as to South America, well, I will keep my ears open around the neighbourhood
17:56:27 <jcowan> Thanks, that straightens things out.
17:56:45 <kandinski> in no time I will be able to tell you what Ecuadorians and Peruvians do with their n+iod
17:56:52 <jcowan> Russian has a four-way distinction between n, ñ, ny, ñy (and similarly with most other consonants)
17:56:56 <kandinski> did you met a speaker who ddid that?
17:57:22 <jcowan> No. It came up on the conlang list in trying to explain the Russian cases.
17:57:45 <kandinski> ah
17:58:18 <jcowan> The Russian distinction arises from the disappearance of ultra-short vowels i and u.
17:58:32 <kandinski> I am trying to think examples of both n+i+vowel and ñ+i+vowel where the i+vowel form hiatus and not diphthong
18:01:05 <jcowan> IIRC most ñ in Spanish is from Latin nn (the accent is historically a small n, as in Portuguese).
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18:02:39 <kandinski> yes, but not from Latin nn, iirc
18:03:04 <kandinski> but from a palatalization of an older iod
18:03:14 <kandinski> that gave birth to an nn glyph
18:03:19 <kandinski> but I may be mistaken there
18:03:29 <kandinski> I have had no time to check it out
18:03:45 <kandinski> (translation: I am guessing like mad)
18:04:16 <jcowan> año < annus is the obvious example
18:04:26 <kandinski> ah, right again
18:04:37 <kandinski> coño: conniculus
18:04:46 <kandinski> you are going to be right again
18:04:51 <kandinski> cunniculus, more like it
18:05:29 <kandinski> but 'España' < 'Hispania' comes from a palatalised iod
18:05:35 <kandinski> so maybe both mechanisms..
18:06:10 <jcowan> Looks good.
18:06:15 <kandinski> and there might be an intermediate iod in the annus > annius? > año process, bien sûr
18:06:26 <jcowan> España may be a semi-learned word, however.
18:06:43 <kandinski> picking up unrelated n+iods along the way
18:06:49 <kandinski> semi-learned?
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18:07:40 <jcowan> Hold on...
18:08:21 <kandinski> caña < canna
18:09:15 <jcowan> Arrgh, I shut down Linux by mistake.
18:10:47 <kandinski> teñir < oops
18:10:53 <kandinski> vmware, right?
18:11:27 <supybot> *** supybot (~supybot@ppp-67-67-235-8.dsl.wchtks.swbell.net) has joined #swhack
18:11:52 <kandinski> do you use vmware with an image, or do you run a "real" Linux from a partition?
18:13:49 <jcowan> vmware.
18:14:06 <jcowan> But Xchat is running in the host, so it's still up.
18:14:33 <jcowan> Arrgh, it's refusing to come up because of the bogus smbmount entry in /etc/fstab. I'll just have to wait for time out.
18:15:10 <jcowan> SIGINT is being ignored
18:16:18 <kandinski> hunting in a Spanish-latin dictionary, I find two sources of eñes
18:17:15 <kandinski> annus, somnus, lignus > año, sueño, leño (the one you suggested)
18:17:39 <jcowan> Surely pronounced anno, sonno, linno in Vulgar Latin anyway.
18:18:02 <jcowan> -s got lost in the -1st century, as did -m.
18:18:29 <kandinski> and pugnus, signum > puño, señal (also marking the origin of the French and Italian spelling)
18:18:38 <kandinski> but what to do of aranea > araña?
18:19:04 <kandinski> and balneum > baño?
18:19:14 <kandinski> my contention is those 'e's turned to iods
18:19:50 <kandinski> and were picked up along the way with the nn and the gn words
18:20:12 <kandinski> but I should ask someone who knows, really
18:20:17 <kandinski> this is out of my depth
18:20:38 <kandinski> s/this is/I am/
18:20:38 <kandinski> heh
18:21:07 <jcowan> Exactly right. e before another vowel was raised to i in Proto-Western-Romance.
18:21:28 <jcowan> probably through an intermediate iea, ieu stage.
18:21:57 <jcowan> Semi-learned words (semi-cultismos) are those which were inherited from Latin but partly remodeled on Latin lines later.
18:22:02 <kandinski> I was thinking of how meus mea > mío mía
18:22:10 <jcowan> Just so.
18:22:22 <kandinski> but those are 'i's, not iods (they are in hiatuses, not in diphthonguses)
18:22:33 <kandinski> ah, semi-cultismos, right
18:22:34 <kandinski> thanks
18:22:46 <jcowan> probably because the tonic accent is on the e in that case.
18:22:47 <kandinski> well, España is a very modern concept
18:23:15 <kandinski> I mean, 'España' is
18:23:21 <jcowan> I had somewhere a triplet of learned/semi-learned/popular forms from the same Latin word, but I can't find it.
18:23:28 <kandinski> (hehe, and España too, let's face it)
18:23:33 <jcowan> * jcowan snickers.
18:23:37 <kandinski> ah, escaño is good
18:23:40 <kandinski> seat
18:23:55 <kandinski> but I knew the triplet too, it is what we learn in highschool
18:24:40 <kandinski> * kandinski grinds the cogs in his brainbag
18:24:52 <jcowan> regla and regular, but I forget the popular counterpart.
18:25:05 <jcowan> reja?
18:26:38 <kpreid> Hmm, I need to name something.
18:27:20 <jcowan> What is the something?
18:27:23 <kandinski> acción and hacer
18:27:36 <kpreid> jcowan: If I could tell you, that'd be the name!
18:27:40 <kpreid> well, no:
18:28:18 <jcowan> va'i da mo
18:28:20 <kpreid> I have an IO abstraction. You wrap an output stream in a Concatenator, which lets you create a set of sub-streams.
18:28:52 <kpreid> When sub-stream 1 is closed, the data from sub-stream 2 goes out on the main stream.
18:29:02 <kpreid> That make sense so far?
18:29:03 <kandinski> 20:25 < jcowan> reja?
18:29:05 <kandinski> 20:25 < jcowan> reja?
18:29:08 <kandinski> sorry
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18:29:13 <kandinski> no, reja does not work for me
18:29:21 <jcowan> Me either. Linux is back up.
18:29:25 <kandinski> http://www.auburn.edu/forlang/Spanish/FLSP7010/notas7010-01.ppt
18:29:26 <jcowan> kpreid: I think so.
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18:29:38 <jcowan> I'm not sure what the point is, though.
18:29:56 <kpreid> Anyway, what I want to add to it is:
18:30:59 <kpreid> Right now, the operations on the concatenator are: get next stream, close after all existing substreams have finished, and indicate-abnormal-termination after ditto.
18:31:04 <kandinski> jcowan, it was "reja"
18:31:07 <kandinski> YOU WIN!
18:31:20 <kandinski> as in 'grid'
18:31:37 <jcowan> Oho.
18:31:42 <kpreid> The new operation is: Reserve the position after the closure of the last substream for me to make a decision as to whether the main stream should be closed.
18:32:22 <jcowan> Okay, but I'm still puzzled.
18:32:38 <jcowan> That was it. I just found the email laying it out for me.
18:32:54 <kpreid> The reason this reservation is needed is that there may have been additional substreams requested after this stream-set-plus-decision-point was requested, but before the decision information is available.
18:33:09 <kpreid> This is being used for a HTTP library.
18:33:22 <jcowan> Interesting PPT, but the IPA symbols come out in the Symbol font, ergo gobbledygook.
18:34:00 <kpreid> Under certain circumstances, the end of a HTTP message may not be indicatable by means other than closing the connection.
18:34:09 <jcowan> * jcowan rubs his head.
18:34:13 <kandinski> jcowan, yep, I can't see it either
18:34:29 <jcowan> meaning the IPA, or kpreid's problem?
18:35:10 <kpreid> The substreams that are used are: (message start line (e.g. HTTP/1.0 200 OK), headers, separator, body)*
18:35:26 <jcowan> kpreid: Okay, the Concatenator will hand its client a stream, which it can hand to someone who expects to write to the stream *and* close it, is that the idea?
18:35:33 <kpreid> Right.
18:36:33 <jcowan> Okay, now I see the use case.
18:36:35 <kpreid> But closing a substream can't mean closing the main stream, so I need a way to reserve in the 'queue of substreams' the ability to do that.
18:36:38 <jcowan> * jcowan recomputes everything.
18:37:04 <kandinski> jcowan, heh
18:37:34 <kandinski> I could not see kpreid's problem if he were in front of me drawing little diagrams on my laptop's screen
18:37:40 <kpreid> The API might look like: cat.whatINeedToName(decisionThunk)
18:38:43 <jcowan> Right.
18:39:14 <jcowan> But why invoke a thunk at all?
18:39:29 <jcowan> Presumably the Concatenator's client (call him Joe)
18:39:53 <jcowan> calls aConcatenator.getNextStream() and then passes the result to some other component that's going to write on it, close it,
18:39:58 <jcowan> and return control to Joe.
18:40:15 <jcowan> At that point, Joe can figure out whether to call aConcatenator.close(), can't he?
18:41:40 <kpreid> No, the control is asynchronous.
18:41:59 <kpreid> In particular, 'getNextStream' may be called many times before the close decision needs to be made.
18:42:26 <kpreid> (I know how to deal with aborting all those waiting substreams.)
18:42:41 <jcowan> Is there a potential for multithreading here?
18:42:55 <jcowan> (i.e. can separate threads write to separate substreams concurrently, or try to?)
18:43:20 <kpreid> This is under E's concurrency model.
18:43:44 <kpreid> Which means: synchronous call/return, but with the toplevel being an event loop managing a message queue.
18:44:22 <kpreid> (In one thread, or multiple threads interacting only via their message queues.)
18:44:28 <jcowan> Okay. Well, suppose I do this:
18:44:51 <jcowan> OutputStream foo = aConcatenator.callNextStream();
18:45:04 <jcowan> OutputStream bar = aConcatenator.callNextStream();
18:45:16 <jcowan> bar.write("this 'n that")
18:45:41 <jcowan> Does this hang, throw an exception, or buffer up the output until foo.close()?
18:47:09 <kpreid> bar is 'empty' right now.
18:47:17 <jcowan> Eh?
18:47:24 <kpreid> That is, it has no spaces available for more data.
18:47:32 <kpreid> What a client *can* do is:
18:47:36 <jcowan> So the above code blocks?
18:47:43 <kpreid> No, throws.
18:48:08 <kpreid> bar.whenAvailable("this 'n that".size(), thunk { bar.write("this 'n that") })
18:48:34 <kpreid> -- that thunk will be invoked after foo is closed.
18:49:12 <kpreid> Effectively, one stream at a time is a thin wrapper for the underlying stream.
18:49:20 <jcowan> Well, I propose that your what-do-you-call-it be simply addCloseEventListener (or the equivalent)
18:49:52 <kpreid> Well, actually, it's not going to be quite like that.
18:50:05 <jcowan> $DEITY is in the details.
18:50:15 <kpreid> I was inappropriately eliding E-specific bits.
18:50:35 <kpreid> It'll be cat.<whateveritis>(promiseForDecision)
18:50:58 <kpreid> that is, an E *promise* for the decision, which is a reference that hasn't decided what it's pointing at yet.
18:51:40 <jcowan> And when it is pointing at something, what is it that it'll be pointing at?
18:51:46 <kpreid> true or false
18:51:54 <jcowan> Ah.
18:52:05 <jcowan> So the promise is a thunk that when forced becomes a boolean.
18:52:12 <kpreid> No.
18:52:16 <kpreid> It cannot be forced.
18:52:30 <jcowan> Right, no coroutines.
18:52:41 <kpreid> A promise is *resolved* by the code that created it
18:52:59 <kpreid> Attempting to use a promise synchronously before it is resolved throws an exception.
18:53:22 <jcowan> Ah.
18:53:32 <kpreid> Key bit of semantics for this application:
18:54:14 <kandinski> dang"
18:54:16 <kpreid> the promise might end up being resolved either *before* or *after* the concatenator has reached the decision point in its queue, and it should be able to handle either.
18:54:20 <kandinski> dang!
18:54:30 <kandinski> helen, remember we imported the data as text?
18:54:46 <supybot> Announcement from my owner (jemfinch): Quick restart, y'all. brb.
18:54:50 <kandinski> no wonder it was not registering on the plot
18:54:58 <kpreid> I can do this, I just don't know what to call the method that puts the decision point in the queue.
18:55:00 <kandinski> (oops)
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18:55:33 <kpreid> (Re 'addCloseEventListener': that name also implies it's called more than once)
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18:56:00 <kpreid> The critical property is that the decision is at a particular place in the queue.
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18:56:25 <kpreid> Hmm.
18:56:32 <kpreid> I could call it 'closeIf'
18:58:03 <jcowan> Fair enough.
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18:58:41 <jcowan> But given three consecutive substreams foo, bar, baz, how can you decide to retroactively close at the end of bar if stuff is already being written to baz?
18:59:06 <kpreid> Because stuff can't have been written to baz yet.
18:59:20 <kpreid> baz only exists as something you can ask 'tell me when you have write capacity'
18:59:26 <kpreid> as yet.
18:59:46 <kpreid> So its client will wake up and see that baz has already been closed.
19:00:08 <jcowan> Then what do you mean by "either *before* or *after* the concatenator has reached the decision point in its queue"?
19:00:40 <kpreid> The concatenator will wait for the promise's resolution before accepting data from baz.
19:02:45 <jcowan> How does it know that bar is the important stream after which it must wait?
19:03:12 <kpreid> The same way it knows the ordering of substreams.
19:03:38 <kpreid> - the order of invocation of the concatenator's 'put something in the queue' methods.
19:06:21 <jcowan> Okay. So what's important is which stream is active (as opposed to which was the most recently created stream) when closeIf is called.
19:06:23 <jcowan> ?
19:06:33 <kpreid> No, the most recently created.
19:06:49 <kpreid> Each of the concatenator's operations puts something on the tail of its queue
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19:08:01 <kpreid> getNextStream (I call it just 'next' at the moment) puts in "some data" and return the stream via which the client supplies that data.
19:08:19 <kpreid> closeIf puts in "maybe close".
19:09:07 <jcowan> Ah, I see. And when "maybe close" is dequeued, we wait until the current promise is fulfilled (but *@#$ if I can see how that differs from forcing a thunk)
19:09:45 <kpreid> Well.
19:09:51 <kpreid> (a) the waiting is asynchronous
19:10:19 <kpreid> (b) the supplier of the promise doesn't get any code executed when the concatenator checks/waits-on it
19:10:53 <kpreid> Maybe I should say 'nonblocking' instead of 'asynchronous'
19:11:45 <jcowan> So this *is* concurrent behavior.
19:11:47 <kpreid> Given a promise, the only (relevant) thing you can do with it is say "invoke this thunk when it's is resolved"
19:12:06 <jcowan> And that thunk is invoked concurrently to the rest of your code?
19:12:12 <kpreid> *NO*.
19:12:18 <kpreid> It's an event loop.
19:12:36 <kpreid> THe thunk is invoked as an event ('turn').
19:13:01 <kpreid> It's concurrent only insofar as the rest of your code spans turns.
19:13:04 <jcowan> Sorry for being so dense, but I simply see too many possibilities.
19:13:15 <kpreid> (Which is quite likely, but it's always explicit.)
19:13:36 <kpreid> Sorry for being snappish, then!
19:13:47 <jcowan> I just purely hate inside-out event-loop processing, and find it difficult to wrap my brain around it.
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19:14:50 <kpreid> E is based on the notion that it's hard to write a *correct* program that uses threads or coroutines.
19:15:17 <jcowan> I agree with that, which is why I like CSP.
19:15:26 <kpreid> .acronym CSP
19:15:32 <phenny> CSP: Commerce Service Provider -/- Corrugated Steel Pipe -/- Board Certified Specialist in Pediatric Nutrition -/- Caché Server Pages (InterSystems) -/- California Society of Periodontists -/- California Staffing Professionals -/- Call Service Position -/- Canadian Specialists Program -/- Casual Sex Partner -/- Causeway Section, Powered -/- Cellular Service Provider -/- Center for Security Policy
19:15:49 <jcowan> .g "cooperating sequential processes"
19:15:52 <phenny> "cooperating sequential processes": http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/context/13033/0
19:16:00 <jcowan> @#$*, that's a techie paper.
19:16:01 <supybot> jcowan: Error: '#$*,' is not a valid command.
19:16:08 <jcowan> Hush, supy.
19:16:28 <jcowan> The CSP model is the model of standard i/o, only inside your process and with more intelligent channels.
19:16:44 <kpreid> Ah.
19:17:01 <jcowan> Imagine the obnoxiousness of writing a filter that has to accept arbitrary-sized chunks of input from stdin every time it gets to the top of the event loop.
19:17:23 <kpreid> CSP: with or without blocking on input?
19:17:28 <jcowan> It's much better to be able to read how much you want, when you want, at an arbitrary dynamic nesting depth.
19:17:44 <jcowan> You can peek, but if you are going to read you block, IIRC.
19:18:41 <kpreid> WRT inside-out: it *can* be less visually inside-out if closures are used.
19:18:50 <kpreid> sometimes.
19:19:27 <kpreid> but you may have been allowing for that, I don't know.
19:20:09 <jcowan> I hadn't been.
19:20:19 <kpreid> jcowan: I'm not really understanding your 'obnoxiousness of ...' example.
19:20:34 <jcowan> Let's say I'm writing Unix "sort".
19:20:42 <jcowan> No, bad example.
19:20:44 <jcowan> Unix "rev".
19:20:51 <kpreid> Oh, wait, you mean as opposed to 'blocking on whatever amount I need right now'?
19:21:18 <jcowan> The point is that in an event loop, it's whoever places events in your loop that decides what they are.
19:21:27 <jcowan> s/they are/the granularity of them is
19:21:46 <kpreid> That's why E's IO interfaces are a layer above events.
19:22:17 <jcowan> So you have analogues to getch, gets, etc?
19:22:18 <kpreid> "Blocking" read:
19:23:12 <kpreid> code code code; input.whenAvailable(4, thunk{ def data := input.read(4, 4); code code code; })
19:24:29 <jcowan> That's fine as long as the scope is purely lexical.
19:24:35 <kpreid> The 'event' is the thunk getting invoked, but you can read as much or as little as you like.
19:24:38 <kpreid> It is.
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19:24:46 <jcowan> But try writing a recursive descent parser that periodically wants a new symbol in that style!
19:25:20 <kpreid> Er, I misinterpreted your 'scope is'.
19:25:31 <kpreid> (I thought you meant the language having lexical scoping.)
19:25:36 <kpreid> Hmm.
19:25:54 <kpreid> I don't have any snappy answers for that one. :)
19:26:02 <kpreid> * kpreid thinks about it for a bit.
19:30:09 <jcowan> The last person I made this case to replied that recursion itself was bogus. I sent him to conceptual Hell.
19:30:58 <kpreid> Heh heh heh.
19:31:40 <kpreid> This closure usage really *is* a kind of recursion. Just one without an explicit stack.
19:32:36 <jcowan> I'm working on an (old) program now that does recursion with its very own stack. It's beyond my comprehension.
19:33:03 <jcowan> In any case, I write correct concurrent programs with CSP-style operations every day.
19:33:05 <kpreid> E's promises let you thread a genuine return value through these layers of closures.
19:33:14 <jcowan> (that is, whenever I type a pipeline to the shell)
19:33:40 <kpreid> True.
19:33:54 <kpreid> I'm getting out of my depth here...
19:33:55 <jcowan> That way, I let the implementors of pipe() get it right, and all other programs are simple.
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19:34:11 <kpreid> (but: I'd argue that you're using very simple predefined parts)
19:34:27 <jcowan> True, but what wondrous things I can do with them!
19:34:36 <kpreid> (simple in their concurrent-interaction interfaces, that is)
19:34:56 <kpreid> Anyway, I didn't come up with this computation model. Go ask Mark Miller :)
19:34:58 <jcowan> As simple as possible, but no simpler.
19:35:28 <jcowan> Sure. (I didn't invent sh either, though I have implemented pipe() on a system that didn't have one, using IPC.)
19:35:39 <kpreid> Hmmm.
19:36:02 <kpreid> I'm thinking that the recursive decent parser might actually be feasible.
19:36:18 <kpreid> -with the right utility functions.
19:36:45 <kpreid> But I haven't worked out the details.
19:39:08 <jcowan> Of course, if you have full continuations, you can transmute between the different styles at will.
19:39:47 <kpreid> And you can translate a blocking program into a turn-based one that uses CPS.
19:40:18 <kpreid> What you can't do is call that code from non-CPS code.
19:40:33 <kpreid> (can't do in E, I mean)
19:41:51 <H0gan> Is Irssi any good?
19:42:27 <jcowan> Is there compiler support for CPS conversion, or you have to do it by hand?
19:43:02 <kpreid> None.
19:43:36 <kpreid> There are not-awful tools for code manipulation though.
19:43:39 <jcowan> Very error-prone.
19:43:42 <jcowan> Oh, good.
19:43:55 <kpreid> So the only reason it doesn't exist is nobody's felt the need for it yet.
19:51:31 <jcowan> * jcowan laughs an evil laugh.
19:52:00 <kpreid> ?
19:56:34 <jcowan> Reinventing the wheel. And so we go in gyro-gyrorondo.
19:57:03 <jcowan> There are only two really different kinds of programming languages (well, of the third generation -- excluding things like SQL and Prolog where the control is implicit)
19:57:11 <jcowan> Those with non-local control and those without.
20:00:16 <MoiraA> *** MoiraA has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
20:13:12 <MoiraA> *** MoiraA (~ihatebt@ACBDB70D.ipt.aol.com) has joined #swhack
20:13:45 <jcowan> I propose the abolition of "heh" in IRC (except as a letter of the Arabic alphabet, of course) in favor of appropriate /me commands.
20:14:31 <kpreid> Not composable.
20:15:26 <jcowan> Who needs it to be? Say:
20:15:27 <kandinski> * kandinski hehs
20:15:28 <jcowan> * jcowan snickers
20:15:29 <jcowan> * jcowan laughs
20:15:32 <kpreid> This paragraph is an example. Heh heh.
20:15:34 <jcowan> * jcowan laughs repeatedly
20:15:38 <jcowan> * jcowan laughs himself sick
20:15:43 <kandinski> * kandinski guffaws
20:15:44 <jcowan> * jcowan rolls on the floor laughing
20:15:50 <kandinski> * kandinski smirks and hiccups
20:15:56 <kandinski> LOL!
20:15:58 <kandinski> OMG!
20:16:01 <jcowan> That's the spirit, Claude.
20:16:19 <kandinski> teh cowan r0x0rz
20:16:23 <jcowan> OMG is at least an abbreviation for something someone can say.
20:16:27 <jcowan> LOL and heh aren't.
20:16:40 <jcowan> Even in Lojban, you don't say "I am now laughing out loud."
20:16:44 <kpreid> You object to onomatopoiea?
20:17:02 <kpreid> * kpreid ^t
20:17:15 <jcowan> I'm not sure that "heh" counts, and surely "lol" does not.
20:18:06 <kpreid> "Heh" certainly does.
20:18:53 <kpreid> * kpreid doesn't care for "LOL" though.
20:19:12 <jcowan> It always makes me think of a yappy little dog.
20:19:42 <kpreid> It == "heh"?
20:19:48 <kandinski> heh does
20:19:50 <jcowan> Yes.
20:20:07 <kandinski> sorry, 'heh' is definitely onomatopoeia
20:20:13 <jcowan> Or being punched in the stomach.
20:20:33 <kpreid> Hm. I hear 'heh' as something possibly halfway to 'hnh'. Not very yappy.
20:22:16 <jcowan> * jcowan notices that once again he is sitting with his left leg crossed under his right thigh and his left elbow leaning on the desk, a posture which makes touch-typing difficult.
20:22:24 <kandinski> well, out of deference to you, jcowan, I will hereforthwith refrain from heh'ing in your presence, virtual or otherwise, if it pleases you and will make your mood, and hence your conversation, more pleasant
20:22:55 <jcowan> What, my conversation is unpleasant?
20:23:21 <kandinski> *even* more pleasant, sire
20:23:40 <kandinski> or "your mood more pleasant, and your conversation more abundant"
20:23:48 <kandinski> satisfuckingfied now?
20:24:57 <jcowan> * jcowan beats kandinski for smartassness
20:27:21 <eaon> *** eaon has quit ("brb")
20:31:43 <kandinski> smartassedness, right?
20:31:58 <kandinski> you can only substantivate an adjective, or so I thought
20:32:17 <kandinski> although you probably will smite with a reference and prove me yet once more WRONG
20:33:03 <kpreid> all nouns can be adjectived, perhaps?
20:33:17 <eaon> *** eaon (~mememe@chello213047096087.6.12.vie.surfer.at) has joined #swhack
20:34:22 <kpreid> * kpreid tried to work an adjectived noun into that sentence, but couldn't.
20:35:50 <jcowan> "Smartassedness" it is, though the number of syllables in that word is uncertain.
20:38:12 <jcowan> "smartássedness" vs. "smartássèdness", that is.
20:39:20 <kandinski> in Spanish, esmártásedes!
20:39:30 <sal> .w smartassedness
20:39:32 <phenny> I couldn't find smartassedness in WordNet.
20:39:33 <kandinski> how do you pronounce it?
20:39:59 <kandinski> (and here I was, thinking that I HAD WON!)
20:41:22 <laplink> heh
20:41:53 <jcowan> * jcowan shoots laplink: ready, aim, twannnng.
20:42:31 <jcowan> @google fight smartassness smartassedness
20:42:35 <supybot> jcowan: 'smartassness': 147, 'smartassedness': 85
20:42:50 <laplink> * laplink gives a maniacal laugh, moons jcowan, and runs away cackling...
20:42:54 <jcowan> I conclude that smartassness is slightly winning enven though it's ill-formed.
20:43:08 <jcowan> jcowan fires his slingshot again.
20:43:15 <jcowan> er, shoulda been a pose.
20:48:58 <laplink> * laplink curses VPN concentrators with split-tunelling disabled...
20:49:58 <sal> ten minutes of silence at the end of your audio track does not qualify as 'artistic license'.
20:51:13 <kandinski> not heh
20:51:14 <kandinski> !heh
20:51:31 <jcowan> "I don't see why artistic license should entitle you to get a thing wrong." --Harold Ross, founding editor of the _New Yorker_
20:53:22 <laplink> *** laplink has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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21:06:55 <laplink> kandinski, what's the source for the mood/conversation quote earlier?
21:10:19 <kandinski> I will be what source?
21:11:00 <kandinski> I wrote that meself, with me own stumps"
21:11:01 <kandinski> !
21:11:02 <jcowan> kandinski was quoting his own earlier remark with modifications.
21:11:34 <laplink> Ah. It rang a bell. Faintly. I thought it'd be Hemingway or summat.
21:12:01 <kandinski> heh
21:12:14 <kandinski> F. Scott Fitzgerald
21:17:06 <bancus> @gc asshat
21:17:07 <supybot> bancus: Error: 'gc' is not a valid command.
21:17:12 <bancus> must be a different bot
21:17:13 <crschmidt> .gc asshat
21:17:19 <phenny> asshat: 39,500
21:17:21 <bancus> ah
21:17:22 <bancus> that one
21:17:37 <bancus> should be more mentions
21:17:48 <bancus> * bancus should make an "Asshats" page on his website
21:17:52 <bancus> for a big list of asshats
21:18:03 <bancus> that'd up google's asshat count a bit more
21:18:07 <bancus> .gc asshatery
21:18:13 <phenny> asshatery: 475
21:18:13 <jcowan> Nick Nicholas has various lists of top ten linguists, poets, etc. followed by "Bottom Ten Arseholes".
21:18:19 <bancus> heh
21:18:20 <jcowan> .gc asshattery
21:18:24 <bancus> beat me to it
21:18:27 <phenny> asshattery: 1,520
21:18:35 <bancus> apparently, we double that t
21:24:03 <jcowan> Otherwise the root likes like hate, not hat.
21:24:55 <Arnia> * Arnia hums at the 'bottom ten' page
21:26:11 <Arnia> I don't agree with syntactocentricism or transformational approaches, but that doesn't make hate Chomsky. Personally I prefer to discredit finite-state automata peddlers like Wallace
21:27:55 <jcowan> Nobody actually *hates* Chomsky (unless for Real World political reasons, and even then, they generally don't know him personally).
21:28:15 <jcowan> Lots of people hate his linguistics, to be sure.
21:30:08 <Arnia> I don't even hate his linguistics. I disagree with him, but why hate?
21:31:21 <Arnia> I disagree with statistical and finite-state approaches (and I agree with Chomsky's original argument against behaviourist linguistics) but I don't hate them. I just feel them to be foolish.
21:31:37 <jcowan> Being an anti-Chomskian can seriously endanger your career in N.A. linguistics depts. That makes people feel resentful.
21:34:58 <Arnia> And resent accomplishes nothing aside from wasting intelligence and insight. I'll stick to unification approaches and borrow research from transformational approaches when I think it makes sense.
21:35:19 <Arnia> I don't see why everyone gets so aggressive about it :/
21:35:20 <jcowan> The former point certainly isn't Chomskian.
21:35:28 <laplink> * laplink suddenly wonders whether jcowan and Arnia have been replaced by Monty-clones...
21:35:29 <Monty> Cool :) a major project
21:35:35 <jcowan> Resentment can be a powerful force for institutional change, if properly harnessed.
21:35:46 <jcowan> * jcowan laughs.
21:36:00 <jcowan> Nobody knows that better than Noam.
21:38:58 <Arnia> Making lingustics into something able to be formalised and modelled is Chomsky's big accomplishment IMO. I don't want to see that thrown away out of spite
21:45:34 <Arnia> In my opinion of course :)
21:53:31 <jetscreamer> *** jetscreamer (jetscreame@adsl-64-219-216-41.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net) has joined #swhack
21:54:06 <deusx> *** deusx has quit ()
21:55:07 <sal> *** sal has quit ("http://www.palmisanonet.com/")
22:03:13 <jetscreamer> *** jetscreamer has quit ("tough luck... (infamous 20th century poet)")
22:04:29 <H0gan> *** H0gan has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:24:36 <d8uv> @weather 99504
22:24:38 <supybot> d8uv: The current temperature in Anchorage, AK is 77°F. Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 41%. Wind: NE at 3 mph (5 km/h).
22:25:20 <jcowan> @weather 10003
22:25:21 <supybot> jcowan: The current temperature in New York, NY is 70°F. Conditions: Cloudy. Humidity: 96%. Wind: CLM at 0 mph (0 km/h).
22:25:24 <d8uv> This (and the smoke) are due to gigantic FIRES
22:25:32 <Arnia> @weather boscastle
22:25:33 <supybot> Arnia: Error: No such location could be found.
22:25:41 <Arnia> .g boscastle
22:25:42 <phenny> boscastle: http://www.cornishlight.co.uk/boscastle.htm
22:25:49 <d8uv> City, Country.
22:25:52 <Arnia> 'wet'
22:26:02 <Arnia> @weather boscastle, UK
22:26:04 <supybot> Arnia: Error: No such location could be found.
22:26:12 <jcowan> Try a postal code.
22:26:40 <kpreid> *** kpreid has quit ()
22:27:12 <jcowan> @weather M6G 3K2
22:27:13 <supybot> jcowan: Error: No such location could be found.
22:27:14 <kpreid> *** kpreid (~kpreid@69-169-139-186.bflony.adelphia.net) has joined #swhack
22:27:19 <jcowan> Bah, not even Canada works.
22:27:28 <jcowan> Yanqui imperialismo
22:27:47 <Arnia> @weather PL35 0BN, UK
22:27:48 <supybot> Arnia: Error: No such location could be found.
22:27:54 <Arnia> @weather PL35 0BN
22:27:55 <supybot> Arnia: Error: No such location could be found.
22:28:06 <Arnia> @weather Heathrow, UK
22:28:07 <supybot> Arnia: Error: No such location could be found.
22:28:12 <Arnia> * Arnia hums
22:28:19 <H0gan> *** H0gan (Bladder@dialup0945.ts004.bmt.esat.net) has joined #swhack
22:28:19 <Monty> bah, it's H0gan again
22:28:43 <H0gan> Monty you make people feel so loved.
22:28:44 <Monty> glass: which spread the shell)
22:39:55 <bancus> @weather KONT
22:39:57 <supybot> bancus: Error: No such location could be found.
22:39:59 <bancus> hm
22:40:19 <H0gan> With Irssi, Do you have to d/l some sort of compiler?
22:41:29 <crschmidt> H0gan: for what?
22:41:34 <jcowan> !kcahwS
22:41:37 <jcowan> *** jcowan has quit ("Leaving")
22:41:40 <crschmidt> later jc... late
22:41:50 <H0gan> crschmidt: It's ok, #Irssi will help me out.
22:44:26 <crschmidt> H0gan: if you'd like, I can make you a shell account here
22:44:33 <crschmidt> H0gan: and you can just ssh in and use irssi in putty
22:45:10 <H0gan> putty?
22:45:43 <crschmidt> H0gan: ssh client
22:46:30 <H0gan> Ah a free telnet/ssh client
22:46:40 <kandinski> H0gan, this is what I do
22:46:51 <kandinski> putty to a server, irssi from there
22:47:21 <H0gan> How long would it take to setup?
22:47:33 <kandinski> putty downloads in no time
22:47:35 <crschmidt> H0gan: about 20 seconds
22:47:44 <kandinski> you can be cooking with gas in 5 min, literally
22:47:55 <crschmidt> H0gan: give me a username/password in private message
22:48:04 <H0gan> K.
22:51:16 <crschmidt> H0gan: download putty, let me know when you're done
22:52:09 <H0gan> Any specific URL?
22:52:42 <crschmidt> http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/download.html one of those ;)
22:54:48 <H0gan> Ok, It's d/led.
22:54:55 <crschmidt> open it.
22:55:22 <H0gan> yup.
22:55:23 <crschmidt> You're going to use SSH
22:55:29 <H0gan> yup.
22:55:38 <crschmidt> Hostname is crschmidt.net
22:55:47 <crschmidt> Click the connect button :)
22:56:11 <H0gan> open?
22:56:17 <crschmidt> Maybe?
22:57:00 <H0gan> I cant input my pass
22:57:07 <crschmidt> it goes in invisibly
22:57:11 <crschmidt> You won't see it as you type it.
22:57:17 <H0gan> oh
22:58:27 <H0gan> Yup.
22:58:32 <H0gan> I got access
22:58:43 <crschmidt> now, type "screen -r"
22:58:47 <crschmidt> I've already set up irssi.
22:58:56 <crschmidt> What screen does is allow you to stay connected across ssh sessions.
22:59:21 <H0gan> What screen?
22:59:23 <crschmidt> Basically, you're saying "reconnect me to the screen currently open with irssi"
22:59:33 <crschmidt> did you type that command?
22:59:33 <H0gan> oh.
22:59:37 <H0gan> yup
22:59:41 <H0gan> I'm on irssi
22:59:42 <crschmidt> Yep.
22:59:47 <crschmidt> Now type /connect irc.freenode.net
22:59:58 <H0gan> Oh, so i'm set now?
23:00:02 <crschmidt> Yep.
23:00:07 <H0gan> Cheers mate.
23:00:14 <crschmidt> When you're done with irssi, you can leave it open if you'd like and reconnect in the same manner
23:00:23 <crschmidt> simply hit ctrl-a, then d
23:00:30 <crschmidt> (You could try now, if you wanted to)
23:00:44 <crschmidt> Basically, that leaves irssi running in a seperate "screen" which you can reconnect to anytime
23:00:49 <crschmidt> (Or from anywhere.)
23:01:08 <H0gan> wha? :s
23:01:22 <Julio> *** Julio has quit (Client Quit)
23:01:35 <crschmidt> Do you want to leave the irssi client online all the time?
23:01:52 <H0gan> No.
23:01:53 <crschmidt> Or is it just to connect to occasionally, or what?
23:01:54 <crschmidt> ah.
23:01:56 <crschmidt> Nevermind then.
23:02:07 <crschmidt> Next time you feel like signing in, instead of typing in "screen -r" just type "irssi" :)
23:02:07 <H0gan> Well, can it be a subsitute to mIRC?
23:02:14 <crschmidt> Sure.
23:02:48 <rayhogan> *** rayhogan (~rayhogan@dslv-1-137.mv.com) has joined #swhack
23:03:03 <rayhogan> lewl
23:03:27 <rayhogan> Irssi has multiserver?Right/
23:04:21 <crschmidt> yep.
23:04:29 <crschmidt> /connect newserver.blah.com
23:04:41 <H0gan> cheers.
23:04:53 <crschmidt> Then in window 1, you can ctrl-x between the two servers.
23:05:11 <H0gan> k.
23:08:22 <sbp> oh shit! ij made an editorial mistake! [[[
23:08:22 <sbp> "When to use Get" finding [2] and to some extent
23:08:22 <sbp> the Deep Linking finding [2]
23:08:30 <crschmidt> yeah
23:08:32 <sbp> ]]] - IOC linking letter
23:08:33 <crschmidt> should be a [3]
23:08:40 <sbp> is the W3C coming to an end?!
23:09:29 <rayhogan> *** rayhogan has quit ("Changing server")
23:13:10 <MoiraA> *** MoiraA is now known as MoiraA|b3dzzzzz
23:13:14 <crschmidt> H0gan: you okay?
23:14:07 <H0gan> I think so.
23:14:10 <H0gan> :\
23:16:00 <sh1mmer> swhack!
23:16:37 <kandinski> when to get 'use'
23:22:39 <bjoern_> *** bjoern_ has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
23:22:58 <Arnia> Oh my... http://www.emogame.com/bushgame.html
23:24:36 <H0gan> * H0gan plays
23:25:17 <redmonk> *** redmonk has quit ()
23:28:52 <d8uv> Hi!
23:29:03 <eaon> *** eaon has quit ("zZz")
23:29:37 <Arnia> Hi YAH! *judo kicks*
23:31:11 <d8uv> * d8uv explodes
23:32:37 <Arnia> *deadpan* never saw that one coming
23:34:50 <sbp> sh1mmer! Arnia! H0gan! kandinski! pieces of d8uv!
23:35:44 <kandinski> * kandinski tastes a small morsel
23:36:39 <Arnia> kandinski: You need pepper with that
23:36:44 <Arnia> sbp!
23:36:53 <Arnia> * Arnia throws nukes around with wild abandon
23:40:50 <kandinski> * kandinski catches them for a rainy day
23:41:02 <kandinski> I want to make my own sunny day
23:42:24 <sbp> Onstad interview! http://4colorreview.com/index.php?p=243&more=1&c=1
23:42:36 <sbp> on the dotcom bubble: "Fancy IT titles and German sports cars were falling from the trees in 1997."
23:43:59 <sbp> "I’m used to people saying that Achewood is horrible, but I’m also used to people who write in to Ray’s advice column with genuinely traumatic personal problems that they shouldn’t be asking a cartoon cat."
23:45:59 <H0gan> *** H0gan has quit ()
23:47:30 <H0gan> *** H0gan (~rayhogan@dslv-1-137.mv.com) has joined #swhack
23:49:26 <Arnia> Never seen that before :)
23:50:28 <sh1mmer> * sh1mmer thanks Arnia for killing his productivity
23:50:38 <Arnia> Oh always
23:51:22 <Arnia> Actually, I want you to finish that project so perhaps I shouldn't have given you that link
23:51:46 <sh1mmer> Actually Im doing paper edits now.
23:51:52 <sh1mmer> sbp got my funding btw :)
23:52:20 <Arnia> * Arnia reads more Z3 stuff
23:52:51 <sbp> I got your funding?
23:52:55 <sbp> * sbp checks his bank
23:53:27 <sbp> doesn't seem to be in there yet
23:54:02 <sh1mmer> heh
23:54:15 <sh1mmer> you have to do a lot more for my for my money
23:54:38 <Arnia> That sounds like a musical song
23:54:49 <sh1mmer> or a porn film
23:57:11 <sh1mmer> sbp how are you then my precious?
23:57:30 <crschmidt> sh1mmer: when are Galway edits due, do you know?
23:57:49 <sh1mmer> 18th
23:57:53 <crschmidt> Thanks.
23:57:54 <sh1mmer> im doing mine now in a hurry
23:57:55 <sh1mmer> :(
23:58:15 <sh1mmer> i need the next two days to be 48hours each
23:58:39 <sh1mmer> * sh1mmer suposed to be demoing system on 18th also
23:59:07 <Arnia> Yay
23:59:10 <Arnia> ()!
23:59:19 <Arnia> (DIY sarcasm)