00:21:05 <deltab> *** deltab has quit (Client Quit)
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00:34:45 <sbp> *** sbp has changed the topic to: <xover> XHTML 1.0 is the bastard child of the XML WG and the HTML WG (the latter being the poxy whore of the relationship). || 1 more day until Xenosaga II Pre-order (EB shipment Tuesday STOP Perhaps Pre-order DVD? STOP) || Happy New Year!
00:35:04 <sbp> let's hope Morbus gets his limited edition DVD :-)
00:35:57 <Arnia> Heh :)
00:36:02 <Arnia> Did you see the fireworks?
00:37:31 <sbp> yep! rather spectacular, weren't they?
00:37:38 <sbp> part of our Olympic ploy no doubt
00:37:46 <sbp> there were quite a few around here too
00:37:51 <sbp> heh. still going off
00:37:58 <sbp> any near you?
00:38:21 <Arnia> Yeah... very very loud (they're personal displays run very badly :)
00:38:29 <sbp> heh, heh
00:39:29 <Arnia> But when the London display finished I thought a nuclear blast had gone off for a split-second... so bright...
00:40:09 <deltab> a trademark of the firework director, apparently
00:40:34 <Arnia> Yeah... I heard that. It was a bit of a shock for the unprepared though :)
00:41:28 <Arnia> Mm... mythtv + RDF = semantic couch potato
00:43:59 <bjoern_> Y2.005K spam count: 108...
00:44:02 <Arnia> sbp: I'm not that against the London bid anymore simply because they may actually get funding to rejuvinate the tube
00:48:19 <Arnia> omg... a ukelele (sp?) band playing Nirvana on Jools Holland
00:54:42 <eaon> * eaon ducks and whispers: happy new year guys
00:54:45 <Talliesin> Happy New Year (UTC) everyone
00:54:55 <Talliesin> * Talliesin passes out virtual coal and silver
00:54:58 <bjoern_> .t
00:55:00 <phenny> Sat, 01 Jan 2005 00:54:57 GMT
00:56:30 <Arnia> * Arnia warms his house with the coal
01:11:07 <sbp> yes, it was certainly bright
01:11:15 <sbp> hi Talliesin
01:11:38 <sbp> poor bjoern_
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01:36:42 <eaon> @crschmidt++
01:45:44 <crschmidt> whyzat?
01:46:10 <eaon> boozecam
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01:47:38 <crschmidt> ah
01:47:51 <crschmidt> http://crschmidt.net/nowhere , for those who didn't see
01:49:29 <sbp> .repres <lun4tic> ???????????????? <-- should be greel coding (name os a greek artist or something like that)
01:49:31 <phenny> '<lun4tic> ???????????????? <-- should be greel coding (name os a greek artist or something like that)'
01:50:36 <bjoern_> .mg ????????????????
01:50:44 <phenny> ????????????????: sorry, no results were found.
01:51:05 <sbp> http://www.google.com/search?q=%3F%3F%3F%3F%3F%3F%3F%3F%3F%3F%3F%3F%3F%3F%3F%3F&oe=UTF-8
01:51:08 <bjoern_> .mg greel coding
01:51:10 <phenny> greel coding: 70
01:51:22 <sbp> .mg name os a greel artist
01:51:25 <phenny> name os a greel artist: sorry, no results were found.
01:51:39 <bjoern_> Monty, name os a greel artist!
01:51:43 <Monty> morbus comes bundled on Windows is it enought because he wants. IS FINE BY ME
01:51:51 <sbp> heh!
01:52:08 <sbp> that'd be scary. Morbus. Longhorn. join the dots
01:52:35 <sbp> happy new year, Monty
01:52:35 <xover> *** xover has changed the topic to: <xover> XHTML 1.0 is the bastard child of the XML WG and the HTML WG (the latter being the poxy whore of the relationship). || 1 more day until Xenosaga II Pre-order (EB shipment Tuesday STOP Perhaps Pre-order DVD? STOP) || Happy New Year! || <Monty> morbus comes bundled on Windows
01:52:39 <Monty> As we all know, Bud_Lite's IRC Daffy Duck fingers HTTP dreadful octopus!!!
01:52:46 <sbp> happy new year, xover
01:52:52 <bjoern_> yo xover!
01:53:03 <xover> Happy New Year Sean!
01:53:17 <xover> And ditto to the rest of the #Swhackers!
01:53:32 <sbp> 2005-01-01, 2005-01-01...
01:53:49 <sbp> I think that this year I might actually be caught up by May
01:53:58 <sbp> until then, lots of scribbling out dates on forms
01:54:21 <sbp> whereas .mg I seem to have down pat
01:54:36 <sbp> perhaps I should make .2005 do something
01:55:04 <xover> .t
01:55:06 <phenny> Sat, 01 Jan 2005 01:55:04 GMT
01:55:46 <xover> Happy New Year phenny!
01:56:18 <bjoern_> .g "2005 is the year of"
01:56:21 <phenny> "2005 is the year of": http://www.chinapage.com/newyear.html
01:56:32 <sbp> .img 2005
01:56:35 <phenny> 2005: http://www.mni.uwo.ca/MEDS2005/pictures/Fanshawe2003.jpg
01:56:51 <sbp> .img picture of 2005 that works
01:56:54 <phenny> picture of 2005 that works: http://district.langford.bc.ca/documents/minutes/Transportation_and_Public_Works_Committee/04-01-27_files/image002.gif
01:57:00 <Arnia> mmm... RDF journalism
01:57:10 <sbp> .img that works and doesn't suck
01:57:12 <Arnia> The idea of annotating events as they happen
01:57:12 <phenny> that works and doesn't suck: http://www.rough-and-tumble.org/logo.jpg
01:57:21 <xover> .mg "RDF journalism"
01:57:23 <sbp> good enough
01:57:23 <phenny> "RDF journalism": sorry, no results were found.
01:57:41 <sbp> .mg "RDF prostitution"
01:57:44 <phenny> "RDF prostitution": sorry, no results were found.
01:58:02 <xover> .mg "RDF crack"
01:58:04 <phenny> "RDF crack": 33
01:58:11 <sbp> hmm, the year of the Rooster soon
01:58:11 <bjoern_> 2005 is the year of the Rooster... like the year I was born... what does that suggest?
01:58:13 <xover> .mg "RDF crackmonkey"
01:58:16 <phenny> "RDF crackmonkey": sorry, no results were found.
01:58:19 <Arnia> .g RDF crack
01:58:21 <sbp> Monty: answer bjoern_ for us
01:58:21 <phenny> RDF crack: http://radio.weblogs.com/0106548/2002/09/11.html
01:58:22 <Monty> except a robosapien
01:58:37 <bjoern_> .g year of the robosapien
01:58:40 <phenny> year of the robosapien: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6567169/
01:59:04 <sbp> .mg year of bot-play
01:59:06 <phenny> year of bot-play: 2,140
01:59:11 <sbp> .img bot-play
01:59:14 <phenny> bot-play: http://www.planetunreal.com/mapped/images/CTFpics/ctf_nucleus_look.jpg
01:59:40 <xover> * xover begins wishing for inline images in IRC…
01:59:49 <bjoern_> [[[
01:59:49 <bjoern_> SCORPIO ROOSTER
01:59:49 <bjoern_> These are the most determined of the Roosters. Once they set a goal,
01:59:49 <bjoern_> they cannot stop until they achieve it. They are motivated, industrious
01:59:49 <bjoern_> individuals who work hard to satisfy their employers. They are deeply
01:59:49 <bjoern_> emotional people, something one wouldn t know by seeing their surfaces.
01:59:51 <bjoern_> ]]]
02:00:00 <bjoern_> HTML-IRC...
02:00:09 <sbp> not sure I'd want to see the goatse man fifty times per day, thanks
02:00:35 <xover> * xover hugs his Firefox (Ad) image blocker...
02:00:51 <sbp> someone tried to paste an ASCII representation of goatse into #IdleRPG
02:01:30 <sbp> if they'll try it in ASCII, just imagine what it'd be like if images were enabled!
02:01:50 <xover> <http://adblock.mozdev.org/> + <http://flashblock.mozdev.org/> == Browsing Bliss!
02:03:04 <xover> Adblock, notably, will even block IFRAMEs so you can nuke the whole block from the page; including Google's text ads.
02:03:07 <sbp> bjoern_: something to add to your CV! "according to a wise person, I am a 'motivated, industrious individual[...] who work[s] hard to satisfy [my] employer[...]'"
02:03:25 <sbp> wow, nice
02:03:27 <bjoern_> good idea!
02:03:29 <xover> Confusius say: … ? :-)
02:03:41 <sbp> heh
02:03:59 <sbp> woahly crap
02:04:27 <xover> «Man who lays down with HTML WG wakes up with VD.»
02:05:42 <sbp> heh, heh
02:07:29 <kpreid> "There's the peril of taking advice from usenet: sometimes it's worth *less* than what you paid for it." -- from usenet
02:07:43 <xover> heh heh
02:08:36 <Arnia> * Arnia hands out New Year Blammo Cake
02:08:51 <xover> * xover has a bite and promptly explodes…
02:09:10 <Arnia> Yeah... I let d8uv lick the spoon
02:10:24 <sbp> hmm: http://groups-beta.google.com/groups?q=%22don%27t+take+usenet+advice%22&qt_s=Search+Groups
02:10:39 <sbp> where is d8uv, anyway?
02:10:53 <xover> Hmm. Annotating events as they happen... How do you identify an event? Does it have an URL? Does the URL merely point at a /representation/ of the event?
02:11:15 <Arnia> Time + Place should make a CIFP
02:11:39 <eaon> * eaon CIFPs around
02:11:53 <xover> .mg CIFP
02:11:56 <phenny> CIFP: 15,000
02:12:01 <Arnia> How does one do that?
02:12:13 <eaon> * eaon puts a hat that says "Pretty" on Arnia
02:12:28 <Arnia> CIFP = Composite Inverse Functional Property
02:12:39 <xover> * xover eyes the hat labelled “Dumb” suspciously…
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02:13:23 <xover> .mg "Composite Inverse Functional Property"
02:13:27 <phenny> "Composite Inverse Functional Property": sorry, no results were found.
02:13:52 <sbp> unambiguous property constellation!
02:14:03 <Arnia> I prefer the term CIFP :p
02:14:17 <xover> .mg UPC
02:14:19 <xover> Er...
02:14:19 <phenny> UPC: 9,980,000
02:14:34 <Arnia> Although it does get confusing when you're talking about lexicographic, denotational and concept IFPs
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02:15:25 <sbp> mine is a bit DAML-retro, admittedly
02:15:32 <sbp> it's also sandro's not mine
02:15:55 <xover> .w constellation
02:15:58 <phenny> constellation 1. an arrangement of parts or elements; "the outcome depends on the configuration of influences at the time"
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02:16:02 <phenny> constellation 2. a configuration of stars as seen from the earth
02:16:16 <xover> .w cluster
02:16:18 <Arnia> DAML-retro... what a cool term
02:16:18 <phenny> cluster 1. a grouping of a number of similar things; "a bunch of trees"; "a cluster of admirers"
02:16:21 <bjoern_> JibberJim!
02:16:22 <phenny> cluster 2. come together as in a cluster or flock; "The poets constellate in this town every summer"
02:16:27 <phenny> cluster 3. gather or cause to gather into a cluster; "She bunched her fingers into a fist"; "The students bunched up at the registration desk" [...]
02:16:29 <bjoern_> .mg Ridiculously Dump Failure RDF
02:16:33 <phenny> Ridiculously Dump Failure RDF: 39
02:16:42 <kpreid> .mg? what happened to .gc?
02:16:45 <JibberJim> bjoern_, xover, phenny !!! HNY
02:16:47 <bjoern_> .mg Ridiculously Dumb Failure RDF
02:16:47 <Arnia> .mg Reality Distortion Field RDF
02:16:50 <phenny> Ridiculously Dumb Failure RDF: 49
02:16:50 <crschmidt> xena
02:16:51 <phenny> Reality Distortion Field RDF: 3,550
02:16:55 <sbp> hey JibberJim. happy new year
02:17:03 <xover> “HNY” to you too Jim! :-)
02:17:10 <bjoern_> .gc .mg
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02:17:18 <sbp> you too, crschmidt, for when it comes around
02:17:39 <xover> @google fight phenny xena
02:17:41 <jessica> I'll have him well and truly sloshed by then, Sean, so I'll pass it on at the appropriate time. ;)
02:17:41 <Arnia> HNY everyone
02:17:44 <supybot> xover: xena: 476000, phenny: 447
02:17:47 <sbp> and kpreid. almost missed him there in the crowd
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02:17:55 <sbp> and jessica! myh my, all coming out of the woodwork now
02:18:00 <Arnia> forall x : Person . HNY(x)
02:18:06 <sbp> ah, that's better
02:18:26 <JibberJim> not very friendly to phenny, xena, monty and all there Arnia
02:18:27 <Monty> cdavis, mp3 it's called.
02:18:37 <JibberJim> Monty: Happy New Year!
02:18:38 <Monty> @karma jetscreamer
02:18:40 <Arnia> forall x : Agent . HNY(x)
02:18:44 <supybot> Monty: Error: TypeError: argument 2 to map() must support iteration
02:18:48 <Monty> http://www.google.com/search?q=%3F%3F%3F%3F%3F%3F%3F%3F%3F%3F%3F%3F%3F%3F%3F%3F&oe=UTF-8
02:18:52 <bjoern_> hny $_ for @people; # much simpler
02:18:54 <sbp> { ?x a foaf:Agent } => { [ foaf:nick "sbp"; :wishesHNYTo ?x ] } .
02:19:15 <kpreid> wow, supybot goes boom
02:19:19 <sbp> N3. complexitrumping your ass with a vengeance
02:19:23 <kpreid> @karma jetscreamer
02:19:28 <supybot> kpreid: Error: TypeError: argument 2 to map() must support iteration
02:19:33 <xover> * xover suspects we've now reached the consensus new year of #swhack...
02:19:34 <kpreid> @karma kpreid
02:19:40 <supybot> kpreid: Error: TypeError: argument 2 to map() must support iteration
02:19:41 <Arnia> HNYAgent := foaf:Agent & exists(newYear, Happy)
02:20:37 <sbp> (emitHnyonAt(person) for person in universe)
02:20:40 <bjoern_> .mg metal scorpio rooster
02:20:44 <phenny> metal scorpio rooster: 6,390
02:21:05 <xover> $self->imbibe(ALCOHOL) until $self->tell(EVERYONE, "I Love you man! No, really! I LOVE you man!");
02:21:23 <sbp> unless $self->skint;
02:21:53 <JibberJim> $self->imbibe(METHS) ?
02:21:56 <sbp> .mg "don't man me, dude"
02:21:57 <kpreid> for x :Agent in meta.scope() { x.happyNewYear() }
02:22:00 <phenny> "don't man me, dude": 5
02:22:02 <sbp> .mg "don't dude me, man"
02:22:06 <phenny> "don't dude me, man": 7
02:22:11 <sbp> .mg "don't man me, man"
02:22:15 <phenny> "don't man me, man": sorry, no results were found.
02:22:16 <sbp> .mg "don't man me, woman"
02:22:20 <phenny> "don't man me, woman": sorry, no results were found.
02:22:21 <xover> @google fight dude man
02:22:23 <supybot> xover: man: 71400000, dude: 1600000
02:22:34 <sbp> she was more a man than dude
02:22:37 <kpreid> @google fight mane dud
02:22:40 <supybot> kpreid: mane: 335000, dud: 143000
02:23:01 <xover> @google fight MSN Yahoo Fast
02:23:04 <supybot> xover: Yahoo: 52400000, Fast: 31400000, MSN: 19300000
02:23:33 <kpreid> @google fight hooligan ligature
02:23:35 <supybot> kpreid: hooligan: 126000, ligature: 58800
02:23:41 <bjoern_> @google fight sex drugs rock-n-roll
02:23:43 <supybot> bjoern_: sex: 71500000, drugs: 11500000, rock-n-roll: 1620000
02:24:06 <sbp> 21 >98 *7^>+\-0|<*5 ^:+ 1pg15\,:<
02:24:07 <sbp> 10^ <>$25*,51g1v-^ p<| -*46p15:+<
02:24:07 <sbp> > 31^> 151p>92*4v ^_ ".", ^ vp1<
02:24:07 <sbp> >v >41p >0 >:5! vg-1g15-1g14<
02:24:10 <xover> @google fight sex god
02:24:13 <supybot> xover: sex: 71500000, god: 24700000
02:24:24 <sbp> probably doesn't wish everyone a happy new year in befunge, but it's worth a try
02:25:23 <JibberJim> * JibberJim wants to see @searchengine fight which does google and msn-beta ...
02:26:08 <bjoern_> .g suggest
02:26:10 <phenny> suggest: http://www.google.com/webhp?complete=1&hl=en
02:26:45 <JibberJim> that's crap.
02:26:54 <JibberJim> completely breaks how I use a search engine...
02:28:01 <xover> Heh heh! Enter "des" in the search field! :-)
02:28:49 <JibberJim> it appears to be a US TV show...
02:29:21 <xover> Yeah? How about "pr0"? :-)
02:30:29 <bjoern_> msn beta asks "were you looking for bjorn hermann" ...
02:31:04 <bjoern_> and my homepage does not rank #1...
02:31:28 <JibberJim> it likes lists.w3.org a lot...
02:31:38 <xover> Hmm. What's Google Suggest, uhm, suggest if you enter "Björn H"?
02:31:38 <JibberJim> and for it says:
02:31:46 <JibberJim> Were you looking for Bjorn H rmann <results.aspx?q=Bjorn+H%c3%b6hrmann&FORM=SSRE>
02:32:24 <bjoern_> xover, well, it suggests only a single query...
02:33:41 <JibberJim> msn-beta lists sites of mine which google doesn't, and I don't know why it doesn't as it's visited many times.
02:35:24 <xover> You're not doing any JS trickery that Googlebot interprets as search engine fodder or summat?
02:35:31 <Arnia> I think Google Suggest is cool... but a bit weird
02:35:47 <JibberJim> no Spurn.org has no script on it at all
02:36:15 <JibberJim> it breaks the browsers autocomplete Arnia, which I use continously
02:37:03 <bjoern_> it also does not work if you configure your browser to override font settings...
02:37:14 <bjoern_> and the ui does not work like native controls...
02:38:32 <JibberJim> ah but the WTF guys'll have those two sorted...
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05:15:11 <crschmidt> [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
05:15:11 <crschmidt> Day changed to 01 Jan 2005
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06:12:56 <crschmidt> sbp: datum+p[henny in #joiito
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10:06:28 <bancus> anyone familiar with procmail around?
10:22:43 <Arnia> Oooh... Gnome 2.9.3 is nice
10:23:08 <Arnia> (getting a development version of a piece of software by accident is quite silly... but I like it)
10:23:12 <bancus> heh
10:23:38 <Arnia> I dist-upgraded from Warty to Hoary
10:23:51 <Arnia> It brought Gnome 2.9.3 with it :)
10:23:51 <bancus> yeah
10:23:55 <bancus> I did the same thing
10:24:00 <bancus> it's neat
10:24:10 <Talliesin> First morning of the new year and some scumbags are breaking my porch window with my bin. Lovely.
10:24:16 <bancus> Heh.
10:25:11 <Arnia> Talliesin: Want some righteous power?
10:25:52 <Arnia> bancus: Its nice to see that Gnome are still making things cleaner. Every version is more user-friendly and beautiful than the one before :)
10:26:02 <bancus> Indeed.
10:26:14 <bancus> Although Ubuntu is part of that, if you're using their version
10:26:22 <bancus> the menu reorganisation, for instance
10:26:23 <Arnia> bancus: The new volume control for example... its brilliant. Not perfect, but a huge step forward
10:26:29 <bancus> really?
10:26:36 <bancus> I haven't noticed a diffenence
10:26:54 <Arnia> Open up the detailed control... its much better organised
10:26:56 <deltab> screenshot? (if it's something visible)
10:26:58 <Talliesin> Arnia, nah, what I want is for them to come back when I'm downstairs and can get to my sword and out the front door before they leg it.
10:27:12 <Arnia> (divided into 'playback', 'capture', 'switches' etc)
10:27:12 <Talliesin> Then I'd put the fear of the Goddess into them.
10:27:35 <Arnia> deltab: I would, but its not this computer (I'm installing on the computer next to me instead)
10:27:51 <Arnia> Talliesin: Good show... I bet she'll enjoy it too
10:28:16 <Arnia> bancus: Yes, but Ubuntu are working with Gnome upstream... its not like their changes are kept in an island
10:28:41 <bancus> very true
10:28:45 <bancus> one reason I like ubuntu
10:29:02 <Arnia> bancus: the new collaborative philosophy with Gnome, Project Utopia, Ubuntu, Freedesktop etc is refreshing
10:29:25 <Arnia> bancus: The way those groups have been working together rather than at crossed-purposes is wonderful
10:30:11 <bancus> Indeed.
10:30:21 <bancus> Project Utopia makes me happy.
10:30:50 <Arnia> I mean projects like DBUS, HAL, UDev, Beagle, Dashboard etc wouldn't have been possible without lots of groups pulling in the same direction
10:31:13 <Arnia> My own Frege would have been impossible without Gnome and Project Utopia
10:32:17 <Arnia> Without Beagle there would be no inotify (which is brilliant on its own)... without DBUS there would be no kernel events layer
10:32:26 <bancus> Frege being?
10:32:31 <bancus> and what's inotify?
10:32:46 <bancus> RML is goodness, to be sure.
10:33:20 <Arnia> bancus: inotify is the new, efficient and scalable way to watch and be notified about events on files and directories
10:33:37 <bancus> instead of fam/gamin?
10:33:37 <Arnia> bancus: Frege is an RDF and ontology layer for Gnome
10:33:56 <deltab> gamin supports both intofy and dnotify, I believe
10:34:00 <Arnia> bancus: Instead of dnotify... its a kernel thing
10:34:53 <deltab> http://tech9.net/rml/log/2004/Sep/22
10:36:24 <Arnia> Mmm... just used the printer config system in 2.9.3... its niiice
10:36:30 <Arnia> Does the Right Thing
10:37:47 <Arnia> Is KDE taking advantage of any of this stuff?
10:38:12 <Arnia> Does KDE have equivalents to the end-user applications Utopia are producing for Gnome?
10:39:15 <bancus> I haven't used KDE since 2.2
10:39:20 <bancus> well, I did try 3.0 when it came out
10:39:26 <bancus> wasn't impressed
10:40:32 <Arnia> Apparently KDE is where all the technical innovation is. According to KDE devs that is :)
10:40:38 <bancus> heh
10:40:45 <bancus> with KIO? =P
10:41:05 <Arnia> Yeah... KIO, Qt everything. Its all better than Gnome's equivs
10:41:35 <Arnia> I've been reading their changelogs for 3.1, 3.2, 3.3... it just doesn't seem as impressive as the changes Gnome have pushed through the whole OS
10:42:00 <bancus> I remember asking what great new feature KDE 3.0 had
10:42:06 <bancus> someone mentioned alpha blending somewhere
10:42:11 <Arnia> Things like DBUS, HAL etc have been driven by Gnome's philosophy of 'Do it Right Automatically'
10:42:15 <Arnia> bancus: eh?
10:42:17 <Arnia> That's it?
10:42:23 <Arnia> And that's not a feature...
10:42:25 <bancus> that was the big feature that I can recall
10:42:39 <bancus> I remember trying it out and thinking "This is exactly like KDE 2.2"
10:44:25 <Arnia> The KDE people are still convinced Gnome is archaic and should die.
10:44:49 <bancus> The KDE argument I hear is that GNOME devs are always trying to tell their users how they should use their computer
10:44:55 <bancus> where KDE is truly customizable
10:45:07 <bancus> KDE just looks like a cheap windows knockoff with me
10:45:08 <Arnia> In my experience users just want to get stuff done
10:45:36 <bancus> I have no problems with the changes gnome makes
10:45:41 <Arnia> Its amazing just how much more work I got done when I switched to Gnome 2.4 from KDE... I no longer felt the urge to fiddle with everything instead of working
10:45:52 <bancus> although I think the input box in GtkFileSelector should be more obvious
10:46:04 <Arnia> bancus: Have you played with the typeahead?
10:46:07 <bancus> yeah
10:46:20 <bancus> but how is one supposed to know that hitting keys does anything until they stumble across it?
10:46:54 <Arnia> Since its a GtkTreeView feature, I think the idea is that it will be generally discoverable to users who know enough to want to fiddle with path strings rather than point and click
10:47:16 <bancus> maybe
10:47:19 <Arnia> I'm not really convinced that adding the box back in will improve matters significantly
10:47:27 <Arnia> I think it will look confusing
10:48:19 <Arnia> They need to get the 'bookmarks' functionality more consistent though
10:48:26 <bancus> how so?
10:48:51 <Arnia> Terminology and function... Nautilus calls them 'places' and doesn't let you add them
10:49:01 <bancus> ah
10:49:53 <Arnia> They might fix that this release though... don't suppose you know how the cairofication of GTk is going?
10:50:22 <bancus> I've heard vague things about it.
10:50:41 <Arnia> Its scheduled for Gtk 2.8
10:51:16 <Arnia> In order that Gnome 2.12 can use it in conjunction with the new backends XOrg are working on
10:52:40 <Arnia> * Arnia wonders how the KDE team can claim to be innovating when they don't seem to be putting half as much effort into co-operation
10:52:52 <bancus> I wish hoary wouldn't keep trying to give me new ndiswrapper packages
10:52:56 <bancus> I can't use it until the kernel is updated
10:53:09 <Arnia> Heh... what kernel you using?
10:53:18 <bancus> 2.6.9-3 or whatever
10:53:28 <bancus> whatever the latest available is
10:53:31 <Arnia> * Arnia plans to move his laptop from Gentoo to Hoary in April
10:53:50 <Arnia> Cool... isn't there some cool stuff that RML has got into 2.6.10?
10:54:24 <bancus> dunno
10:54:51 <Arnia> Ah yes... the kernel event layer
10:55:01 <Arnia> Basically the kernel can talk over the system bus
10:55:21 <Arnia> So applications can register to listen on signals the kernel generates
10:55:38 <bancus> ah, neat
10:56:48 <Arnia> * Arnia wonders what ever happened to GoneME
10:56:54 <bancus> heh
10:56:58 <Arnia> Perhaps he went off to join the KDEers
10:57:09 <Arnia> * Arnia had tremendous fun arguing with him
10:59:27 <Arnia> Oh, another cool thing. Someone has proposed fixing the clipboards mess in X by using DBUS
10:59:48 <bancus> how?
11:00:06 <bancus> that'd be neat, since you could make non-X apps use it too
11:01:18 <Arnia> It was an email sent to the DBus list on the 29th
11:01:34 <Arnia> Let me get a gmane URL
11:02:59 <Arnia> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.freedesktop.dbus/1492
11:06:35 <bancus> he doesn't really explain how the dbus side of it would work
11:07:02 <bancus> just a clipboard manager?
11:07:35 <Arnia> Yeah... but the idea is out there now. I'm hoping it will prompt fd.o to begin working out the details
11:08:23 <Arnia> So many cool things... I've got to get a demo of Frege done as my priority however...
11:09:30 <bancus> I should resume work on RockHammer
11:09:36 <Arnia> Then I'm going to suggest to the Beagle guys moving all the Frege interfaces into Beagle since there is a natural synergy between the two
11:09:44 <bancus> I got sidelined while trying to figure XMPP out.
11:10:13 <Arnia> Plus that means I can use the Beagle indexing routines to scrape RDF out of files and the filesystem as well as updating the graph when files move
11:11:13 <bancus> I'm just waiting for something neat to come out of GNOME Storage
11:11:17 <Arnia> It also reduces the number of daemons people have to run :)
11:11:31 <Arnia> bancus: Hmm... Frege is targeted to replace that
11:11:38 <bancus> Is it?
11:11:47 <bancus> How do you do NLP?
11:12:39 <Arnia> bancus: Yeah... I've had long discussions with Seth... he wants to reinvent the wheel on everything (his own RDF equivalent etc) and wouldn't accept that these things already existed. He said 'build me something that uses RDF and I'll believe you'. So I am :)
11:12:52 <bancus> heh
11:13:04 <Arnia> bancus: I'm a linguist :p I wrote bindings for the PET parser and MRS library to python in two days over the summer
11:13:09 <bancus> Neat.
11:13:20 <bancus> Dunno what a PET parser is, though.
11:13:26 <Arnia> My doctorate is going to be general natural language understanding in real world systems
11:13:26 <Phurl> *** Phurl is now known as md-afk
11:13:50 <bancus> so many smart people in #swhack
11:13:52 <bancus> I feel outclassed
11:14:02 <Arnia> I already know how to do lots... Frege is just one small step on my plan. This plan involves funding and politics though so its hard :(
11:14:18 <Arnia> Still... the challenge is fun :)
11:15:17 <Arnia> bancus: PET is an HPSG parser library written in C++. Unfortunately its drastically unsuitable for use in a desktop environment because its lexicon must be precompiled
11:15:38 <bancus> you can't ship lexicons with the program?
11:15:44 <Arnia> And most of its flaunted speed is based on that precompilation
11:16:17 <Arnia> bancus: Yes, you can... but everytime you came up with a word you'd have to recompile it all... this includes things like titles, authors, film makers everything
11:16:26 <bancus> ah, suck
11:16:38 <Arnia> Plus the English Resource Grammar isn't very robust... it can't cope with 'ersatz' properly
11:16:54 <Arnia> (that is, words it doesn't know yet... such as email addresses etc)
11:17:15 <Arnia> And finally, PET is no longer maintained. Ulrich Callmier told me as much when I emailed him
11:17:27 <Arnia> So all in all, Seth's approach isn't going to work
11:17:42 <bancus> I didn't realize that Seth was using PET.
11:18:04 <Arnia> But he doesn't listen :p He studied at Stanford's lingo project and he is convinced its the only way to do things
11:19:13 <Arnia> He also insists that the only way to do Storage is to require everyone to be running a postgres database in their session
11:19:22 <Arnia> That's a rather heavy dependency to swallow
11:19:32 <bancus> heh
11:19:49 <Arnia> His approach is also heavy on XML, inventing a poor man's RDF rather than using real RDF
11:20:15 <Arnia> What I find funny is he lectured me about how developers won't accept dependencies on RDF, nor learning RDF's paradigms
11:20:27 <Arnia> Yet he was requiring even more work...
11:21:23 <Arnia> So, Frege is part of my argument with him ;) Gnome Storage is, IMO, a dead-end. Frege isn't perfect by a long-shot, but its likely to actually be used by developers
11:23:34 <Arnia> (and I do believe I have a way to do the NLP thing... its just taking me some time to work through the complexities, but I'm getting there and the stuff I could implement now if I had time would be amazing)
11:27:23 <Arnia> I just feel fortunate that I have a passion, and that by chance I seem to have the right mix of skills and knowledge to tackle this. Its a riddle, but a fun one
11:37:20 <Arnia> </spiel>
11:37:36 <Arnia> Sorry about that... I didn't mean to go all PR on you :)
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12:47:47 <Talliesin> hey libby. Happy New Year
12:48:18 <libby> likewise talliesin :)
12:54:03 <Talliesin> oooh lightning
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13:03:34 <JibberJim> no lightning here :-(
13:07:39 <libby> ooh: http://cnb-host2.clickandbuild.com/cnb/shop/cashncarrion?op=catalogue-products-null&prodCategoryID=28
13:10:16 <JibberJim> hehe
13:11:11 <libby> * libby been obsessing about ID cards lately. it just makes me so cross
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14:06:47 <Talliesin> But libby, once you have an ID card you can rest assured that you are not a terrorist.
14:11:55 <sbp> right. otherwise, how would you know?
14:12:01 <sbp> (and Happy New Year!)
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14:13:17 <crschmidt> happy new year
14:15:40 <PhUrl> happy new year all
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14:17:52 <Monty> welcome, FloK
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14:25:44 <JibberJim> does anyone know if MSI's have a mime-type?
14:41:45 <crschmidt> 09:38:13 <@IdleBot> harv [285/533] has challenged sbp [503/834] in combat and lost! 3 days, 01:01:48 is added to harv's clock.
14:42:29 <sbp> I ARE WIN!
14:42:56 <sbp> hmm. either I'm using JCarroll's canonicalisation scripts wrongly or they're taking a bizarrely long time
14:48:29 <sbp> ah, it might be getting confused because /dev/std{in,out,shake-it-all-about} don't work
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14:55:50 <xover> JibberJim: Not according to IANA they don't, and I can't recall ever seeing a vendor-specific one either.
14:56:29 <sbp> oh joy
14:56:29 <sbp> $ cat foaf.nt | ./multistep.sh foaf.nt
14:56:30 <sbp> ./multistep.sh: line 3: 26292 Done sed -f escape-space.sed
14:56:30 <sbp> 26293 Segmentation fault | awk -f multipass.awk -f c14n.awk -f multistep.awk $1
14:58:44 <JibberJim> well netcraft seem to think it's text/plain, which IE6 then says, I ain't letting you execute that!
14:59:16 <xover> * xover does a double jump...
14:59:18 <JibberJim> Which stunned me! both IE6 blocking it, and Netcraft not knowing...
14:59:58 <xover> IE6 actually looks at the MIME type??!? There are files which IE6 won't happily execute?!!?
15:00:18 <sbp> ah! the arg is the number of steps!
15:00:25 <JibberJim> http://jibbering.com/blog/index.php?p=157
15:01:03 <sbp> so "$ ./multistep.sh 1 < foaf.nt" works
15:06:57 <dydimustk_sleep> *** dydimustk_sleep is now known as dydimustk
15:10:18 <PhUrl> wow
15:10:57 <PhUrl> i was able to replace all the :ids-NNNN in my document with n3 _:aNNN and now cwm is figuring out the structure for me!
15:24:36 <sbp> pardon?
15:41:49 <sbp> aw. I got the second mail of the year to www-archive
15:44:28 <crschmidt> thanks sbp
15:44:57 <sbp> you're welcome. for what? :-)
15:45:02 <crschmidt> was going to say that, but don't like fighting with DanC (from his _predicates for experimental) and timbl, and couldn't find a reference
15:45:05 <crschmidt> ah, for the nodeid thing
15:45:08 <sbp> ahh. heh
16:00:59 <sbp> diff script: http://inamidst.com/proj/rdf/ntdiff
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17:31:32 <xover> .mg "Xenosaga II"
17:31:35 <phenny> "Xenosaga II": 14,800
17:32:14 <xover> Amazing. And I'd barely even heard the title until Morbus /topic'ed it.
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17:46:59 <sbp> RDF Graph Isomorphism Tool (new one, but using the Pyrple algorithm): http://inamidst.com/proj/rdf/rdfdiff.py
17:46:59 <swhacker> posted 679
17:48:08 <sbp> 679:Quite whippy! Passes the <a href="http://www.w3.org/2000/10/rdf-tests/rdfcore/utils/ntc/test/">ntc test suite</a> too. I've been wanting an RDF graph comparator that's small and robust for quite some time--I should benchmark it against cant.py (CWM), ntc (jjc), and jjc's awk scripts.
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17:49:30 <sbp> 679:Requires <a href="http://inamidst.com/proj/rdf/ntriples.py">ntriples.py</a> and Python2.4+ due to the generator expressions and use of builtin sets.
17:50:29 <sbp> it's funny how when you concentrate on getting the basic elements right, all the rest follows suit quite quickly. I guess that's the UNIX* philosophy though.
17:50:39 <sbp> * UNIX is a trademark of The Open Group, Inc.
17:59:58 <sbp> next step is a new RDF/XML parser
18:00:07 <sbp> I just need to make the old one not slow really
18:00:40 <JibberJim> shell ( rapper )
18:02:35 <sbp> heh
18:03:01 <sbp> actually, it might well be a good idea to use rapper if it's available...
18:03:08 <sbp> but the problem is that rapper only converts
18:03:18 <sbp> so you'd have to do rapper input | ntriples.py
18:03:31 <sbp> parsing twice, even if the first part is in C
18:04:13 <JibberJim> can any one find me an example of http://www.bushidohacks.com/2004/12/spammers-are-cheatting-gis.php ?
18:07:28 <sbp> why not post a comment and ask for an example?
18:07:31 <deltab> I'm not even sure what it means
18:07:43 <deltab> SVG embedded within JPEG?
18:07:58 <sbp> yeah, it doesn't make much sense. why would OCR technology read the SVG?
18:08:35 <DrBacchus> *** DrBacchus (~rbowen@buglet.rcbowen.com) has joined #swhack
18:09:33 <JibberJim> yeah that just seemed odd, but basically if it's spammed, I'd be interested in seeing the alg's, I've got some high ranked images in google images, but there's no text in 'em.
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18:44:26 <schepers> swhack!
18:44:38 <sbp> schepers! HNY
18:44:59 <schepers> sbp! same to you and more of it!
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18:46:19 <Monty> hi cskaterun
18:46:20 <JibberJim> monty tell jibbler to sort netcrafts toolbar our
18:46:20 <Monty> JibberJim: Okay, I'll tell jibbler that next time I see them...
18:46:28 <JibberJim> phenny tell jibbler to sort netcrafts toolbar our
18:46:37 <JibberJim> * JibberJim kicks phenny
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18:46:55 <Monty> bah, it's cskaterun again
18:47:09 <sbp> colon
18:48:22 <JibberJim> phenny: tell jibbler to sort netcrafts toolbar our
18:48:24 <phenny> JibberJim: I'll pass that on for you when jibbler is around.
18:48:55 <JibberJim> Monty tell phenny your syntax is less fussy than hers
18:48:55 <Monty> JibberJim: Okay, I'll tell phenny that next time I see them...
18:49:13 <JibberJim> Phenny tell Monty he's a cocky little bleeder.
18:49:14 <Monty> tail -F ~/dirs_sizes_hash.txt )
18:49:21 <JibberJim> phenny: tell Monty he's a cocky little bleeder.
18:49:24 <Monty> She's silenced in combat and choose firefox.
18:49:24 <phenny> JibberJim: I'll pass that on for you when monty is around.
18:49:25 <Monty> Hey phenny, JibberJim asked me to tell you: your syntax is less fussy than hers [Sat Jan 01 18:45:09 GMT 2005]
18:49:26 <phenny> Monty: 18:49Z <JibberJim> tell Monty he's a cocky little bleeder.
18:49:30 <Monty> Linus Torvalds's bottle-opener reminds me of mild kissagram, apparently.
18:49:36 <sbp> heh, heh
18:50:14 <Arnia> phenny: Monty wants to chat
18:50:16 <Monty> driving ejaculating is lifelike roof :P
18:50:16 <phenny> I somewhat doubt it.
18:50:34 <Arnia> 'I somewhat doubt it'...
18:51:07 <sbp> well it wasn't being used much :-)
18:51:45 <Arnia> I liked that feature :(
18:51:59 <sbp> slip me a tenner and I'll put it back
18:52:01 <sbp> * sbp ducks
18:52:20 <sbp> I'll make a note in the source to add it back next version
18:52:24 <JibberJim> monty slip sbp a tenner
18:52:24 <Monty> Right...
18:52:42 <sbp> loggy: pointer?
18:52:42 <sbp> See http://swhack.com/logs/2005-01-01#T18-52-42
18:52:54 <sbp> there
18:53:56 <JibberJim> shall I go and take photos of hampton court
18:54:00 <JibberJim> or shall I go to sleep
18:54:28 <sbp> Hampton Court. then embed "pr0n spam sex slutty v1agr7" in them in SVG
18:55:25 <JibberJim> I'm currently 41 in "hampton court" google image search, I guess I'd come up higher after that...
18:55:35 <sbp> yeah :-)
18:56:01 <JibberJim> hang on, this is odd
18:56:12 <JibberJim> on hampton court, no quotes I'm 41st
18:56:40 <JibberJim> on hampton court with quotes I don't seem to appear but jibbering.com/ imgs/man.jpg
18:56:45 <JibberJim> does inexplicably.
18:56:53 <sbp> hmm
18:57:07 <sbp> changing the order of search terms buggers with the results too
18:58:19 <JibberJim> but why does the picture of that old bloke appear? that's crap!
18:58:44 <JibberJim> Thing is, I don't know if it is actually lit up, it could be a wasted journey...
18:58:50 <sbp> maybe it knows you're anti-Google, so it flags your site as antigoogle=1 in the database
18:59:02 <sbp> can't you see it from a distance?
18:59:06 <sbp> webcam anywhere?
19:01:37 <JibberJim> don't think so, ah it must be lit up though, the ice rink is open, I could get some pictures of skaters whilst I'm there...
19:04:03 <sbp> nice
19:18:30 <crschmidt> JibberJim: how much did your camera cost you?
19:18:46 <crschmidt> (I just need to confirm "way out of my price range", really)
19:25:00 <xover> Actually, DSLRs aren't that insanely expensive any more; and with the release of the EOS 20D, you should find 300Ds used for a manageable amount.
19:29:07 <jessica> You're lacking an actual dollar amount.
19:30:08 <xover> The 20D with standard lens is about $1500, and the 300D w/lens is $900, on Amazon.com new; from around $800 used.
19:30:22 <crschmidt> $500 is about my high limit
19:31:37 <xover> Hmmm. ISTR the Pentax and Nikon models are a little cheaper than the Canons they compete against, but not that much.
19:32:33 <xover> But, without claiming any kind of detailed knowledge of the subject, I'd guess you could get a pretty decent digicam — just not DSLR — for $500.
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19:38:06 <crschmidt> yeah, i'm happy with the one I have now
19:38:13 <crschmidt> I didn't expect to switch any time now
19:38:56 <crschmidt> I have some cash from Christmas, and I'm trying to figure out whether to save it a bit more and get a dSLR, or to buy some other gifts now
19:39:01 <crschmidt> I expect that instant gratificatino will win
19:42:28 <xover> It usually does. :-)
19:43:46 <crschmidt> yeah
19:44:01 <crschmidt> I'm probably getting an iSight + Delorme BlueLogger
19:44:22 <xover> .g "Delorme Bluelogger"
19:44:25 <phenny> "Delorme Bluelogger": http://www.postneo.com/2004/12/28/bluetooth-gps-for-149
19:44:33 <crschmidt> heh
19:44:40 <crschmidt> GPS
19:46:04 <crschmidt> Cheapest one on the market, with bluetooth
19:46:18 <xover> And Google's top hit for it mentions some "Christopher Schmidt" guy... :-)
19:56:55 <kandinski> hey, happy new, all
20:04:50 <xover> “HNY” kandinski.
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20:05:51 <Arnia> * Arnia wraps kandinsky in an HNY predicate and tosses him into Julie
20:08:59 <kandinski> hmm, it is snuggle in here
20:09:43 <Arnia> 1.6 million other statements to keep you company
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20:34:41 <Arnia> [[[ The Scot credited with inventing the automated cash machine has been awarded an OBE - 40 years on. John Shepherd-Barron, 79, from Tain in Ross-shire, said the accolade was "better late than never". ]]] -- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4135269.stm
20:37:02 <Arnia> What I find amazing is that the first tellers used carbon-14 and composition testing to figure out who the cheque was from. Seems very elaborate
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22:28:39 <sbp> gah:
22:28:40 <sbp> File "/usr/local/lib/python2.4/subprocess.py", line 914, in _execute_child
22:28:40 <sbp> self.pid = os.fork()
22:28:40 <sbp> OSError: [Errno 11] Resource temporarily unavailable
22:28:44 <sbp> keeps happening
22:28:50 <sbp> problem appears to be a lack of PIDs
22:28:58 <sbp> so I'm trying the suggestion in http://www.cygwin.com/ml/cygwin/2004-09/msg00496.html
22:29:07 <sbp> but:
22:29:08 <sbp> $ rebaseall
22:29:08 <sbp> ReBaseImage (/usr/bin/cygncurses7.dll) failed with last error = 6
22:29:15 <sbp> still, let's try running the program again...
22:29:27 <sbp> nope, still get Resource temporarily unavailable
22:29:56 <sbp> hmm, that error's also mentioned here: http://www.tatsuyoshi.net/toyota/tech/200403.html
22:30:37 <sbp> not very bloody helpful
22:30:57 <sbp> * sbp tries babelfish
22:31:03 <sbp> whoo!
22:31:04 <sbp> [[[
22:31:06 <sbp> Error decoding translated text.
22:31:12 <sbp> The error encountered is: 157
22:31:13 <sbp> ]]]
22:32:07 <bjoern_> .mg "error 157"
22:32:15 <phenny> "error 157": 2,070
22:33:32 <sbp> hmm, it's a bash script
22:35:30 <sbp> ah: http://www.cygwin.com/ml/cygwin/2003-04/msg00298.html
22:35:32 <JibberJim> * JibberJim tried to buy fish&chips
22:35:37 <JibberJim> but they were all closed :-(
22:38:51 <sbp> usually I run bash, rxvt, and zsh, so running bash in a dos window is a bit odd
22:39:02 <sbp> F&C: not got any at home either?
22:39:30 <sbp> whoo, it works
22:39:38 <JibberJim> I don't live in a F&C shop
22:39:43 <JibberJim> I made an omelette
22:39:45 <sbp> heh
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