00:01:40 <BigJibby> BigJibby (~matt@1Cust20.tnt4.dial.mtl1.uunet.ca) has joined #swhack
00:02:04 <JibberJim> "A 99 like a 69 but 30 worse!"
00:07:12 <uche> phenny, tell sbp that one way to get a small flavor of Mike Brown's breadth and depth is at http://skew.org/xml/ (the skew.org XML & XSLT resources)
00:07:14 <phenny> uche: I'll pass that on for you when sbp is around.
00:08:06 <fap3> fap3 (~enki@213.235.202.172) has joined #swhack
00:08:06 <Monty> hi fap3
00:08:46 <fap3> fap3 has quit (Client Quit)
00:09:06 <uche> phenny, tell sbp that Mike Brown is like chimezie: he doesn't promote himself to the extent of his abilities
00:09:08 <phenny> uche: I'll pass that on for you when sbp is around.
00:21:21 <chimezie> :)
00:21:51 <crschmidt> uche: by the way, I never got around to filtering out chimezie from planet swhack. Luckily, he's here now, so I don't have to bother.
00:21:56 <chimezie> i need a vaccation too
00:22:07 <chimezie> * chimezie ducks the blow
00:22:33 <JibberJim> that's empire building syndicate people you want to be here, then they'll join to see why they're syndicated!
00:23:09 <chimezie> * chimezie will bbabl
00:27:44 <uche> crschmidt, yesh, but it was really only an issue because all the posts were labeled as "Uche Ogbuji"
00:28:22 <BigJibby> Monty, we won!
00:28:24 <Monty> Essentially, keybinding is skipping!
00:28:26 <uche> I think Planet xmlhack's approach is the best:
00:28:37 <uche> Just say "Uche and Chimezie Ogbuji"
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00:30:55 <crschmidt> uche: ah, will do that then
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01:21:35 <Monty> lo valmont
01:21:41 <Talliesin> Talliesin (~Talliesin@83.71.71.55) has joined #swhack
01:21:41 <Monty> lo Talliesin
01:28:14 <MoiraA> lo Monty
01:28:16 <Monty> bowling-alley is buggered and shipped.
01:30:37 <bjoern_> where to Monty?
01:30:38 <Monty> Does that question interest you ?
01:30:43 <bjoern_> yes Monty
01:30:44 <Monty> cruel joke
01:30:56 <bjoern_> true Monty... anyway, where to?
01:30:56 <Monty> What is it you really want to know ?
01:31:06 <bjoern_> Why are you up so late Monty?
01:31:10 <Monty> crschmidt, yesh, but it is nutella it doesn't look too hot to stop conversation
01:31:26 <bjoern_> right Monty...
01:31:30 <Monty> silent red hairbrush fondles perspiring clumsy overhead projector :P
01:37:10 <kpreid> [[[
01:37:27 <kpreid> {There exists} a class of grocery stores colloquially known as "used food stores."
01:37:30 <kpreid> They are rock-bottom outlets for cheap packaged food: Obscure regional brands, flavors and varieties of national brands that didn't make it in the market, and gray-area items like cereal that is still within its freshness date but has an outdated promo item (e.g., a Christmas music CD, Secrets of Atlantis toy).
01:37:36 <kpreid> ]]] — http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/002328.html#15795
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01:43:23 <MoiraA> lo sbp
01:43:29 <MoiraA> how's you?
01:44:12 <MoiraA> heh I just got a bot working
01:44:18 <MoiraA> quite an achievement for me
01:44:33 <MoiraA> it only does !seen right now but it's progress
01:44:35 <jetscreamer> \o/
01:44:58 <MoiraA> I have a talkz tcl script but it seems to be throwing up rubbish
01:45:07 <MoiraA> changed the name
01:45:11 <MoiraA> pita that was
01:45:21 <MoiraA> editing the config file
01:45:25 <sbp> hey there Moira
01:45:28 <MoiraA> this is on someone else's server
01:45:36 <sbp> not too bad, thanks. just checking out http://skew.org/xml/
01:45:39 <MoiraA> so I'm using putty and having to get past their login
01:45:44 <sbp> how was/is .no?
01:45:59 <MoiraA> norway?
01:45:59 <MoiraA> fantastic
01:46:07 <MoiraA> got some pics I'm busy reducing in size etc and enhancing so not on website yet
01:46:15 <MoiraA> will produce a page of photos
01:46:18 <MoiraA> freezing though
01:46:27 <MoiraA> docking here felt like the tropics in comparison
01:49:10 <MoiraA> few photos
01:49:16 <MoiraA> got so many to develop though
01:49:47 <MoiraA> http://www.moiraatkinson.co.uk.May05_Norway 026.jpg
01:49:59 <MoiraA> apologies
01:50:08 <MoiraA> that doesn't work
01:50:41 <sbp> spam: "Malke Money for your Opinions"
01:50:46 <sbp> why should they have all the money?
01:50:52 <MoiraA> http://www.moiraatkinson.co.uk/May05_Norway 026.jpg
01:51:04 <MoiraA> sugar
01:51:07 <sbp> ooh, fishies
01:51:13 <sbp> sugar?
01:51:15 <MoiraA> you saw it?
01:51:24 <MoiraA> yeah that was a market
01:51:27 <MoiraA> you picked your fish
01:51:36 <MoiraA> and they killed it there and then so it was fresh
01:51:42 <MoiraA> I got a 404
01:52:28 <sbp> aw, poor things. they look so pretty
01:52:38 <MoiraA> how come I can't view them
01:52:55 <kpreid> ahem
01:53:13 <kpreid> http://www.moiraatkinson.co.uk/May05_Norway%20026.jpg
01:53:13 <sbp> Moira: http://www.moiraatkinson.co.uk/May05_Norway%20026.jpg
01:53:17 <sbp> heh
01:53:21 <MoiraA> ah k
01:53:26 <MoiraA> should have added that
01:53:32 <MoiraA> oh well
01:53:40 <kpreid> colorful!
01:53:51 <MoiraA> yes but to them it;s a way of keeping your dinner fresh
01:53:53 <sbp> see any aurorae?
01:53:57 <MoiraA> nah
01:54:04 <sbp> a shame
01:54:04 <MoiraA> was bad weather
01:54:08 <MoiraA> raid
01:54:11 <MoiraA> rain
01:54:12 <MoiraA> wind
01:54:16 <MoiraA> cold
01:54:20 <MoiraA> cloudy etc
01:54:24 <MoiraA> and a lot of daylight
01:54:33 <MoiraA> hope to do better in the shetlands in october
01:54:51 <sbp> it'll be a lot of nightdark there, no?
01:56:17 <MoiraA> in october, yes
01:56:32 <MoiraA> not the best time for the aurora but I don't fancy the holiday in December
01:56:33 <sbp> "from the must-resist-comment-about-evil dept." - http://slashdot.org/articles/05/05/23/0022207.shtml?tid=217&tid=1
01:56:42 <sbp> it'd be rad!
01:56:52 <sbp> twilight walks all day long
01:56:54 <MoiraA> I subscribe to aurora watch
01:57:01 <MoiraA> been a couple of red alerts recently
01:57:13 <MoiraA> high sunspot activity and solar flares
01:57:18 <MoiraA> but no northern lights here
01:59:41 <MoiraA> http://www.moiraatkinson.co.uk.May05_Norway%20028.jpg
01:59:55 <MoiraA> jeez
01:59:57 <MoiraA> that's wrong too
02:02:25 <sbp> got it, nontheless
02:02:35 <sbp> cool mix of architecture
02:03:04 <sbp> paneling on the right, concrete on the left
02:03:21 <sbp> weather doesn't look too bad, either!
02:03:22 <Anical> Try a 4-letter station code (see http://weather.noaa.gov/weather/curcond.html for locations and codes)
02:03:26 <sbp> heh
02:03:55 <ows> night
02:04:24 <crschmidt> weather kmht?
02:04:26 <Anical> (kmht) Conditions at 0; Dewpoint: 46 F (8 C); Pressure (altimeter): 29 in. Hg (1006 hPa); Relative Humidity: 87%; Sky conditions: Mostly Cloudy; Temperature: 10 C (50 F);Visibility: 8 mile(s) (12 km); Wind: from the Northwest (320 degrees) at 3 MPH (3 KT) gusting to 0 MPH (0 KT)
02:04:36 <ows> ows has quit ("Leaving")
02:04:39 <crschmidt> 3mph gusting to 0mph
02:04:40 <crschmidt> awesome
02:09:00 <sbp> ha!
02:12:38 <sbp> hmm, I wonder if AaronSw could reimplement his HTMLDiff using http://www.logilab.org/projects/xmldiff?
02:13:51 <adamhill> weather kads?
02:13:53 <Anical> (kads) Conditions at 0; Dewpoint: 66 F (19 C); Pressure (altimeter): 29 in. Hg (1010 hPa); Relative Humidity: 43%; Sky conditions: ; Temperature: 33 C (91 F);Visibility: 13 mile(s) (20 km); Wind: from the Southeast (150 degrees) at 9 MPH (8 KT) gusting to 0 MPH (0 KT)
02:15:12 <crschmidt> I think that the weather stuff is pretty funked up
02:15:21 <crschmidt> my infobot gives non 0s for gust on both those
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02:27:26 <BigJibby> crschmidt, you use wordpress right?
02:27:30 <crschmidt> yep
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02:27:56 <BigJibby> http://mattread.com/test_opml.php?url=http://crschmidt.net/blog/wp-links-opml.php :)
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02:41:05 <chimezie> sbp: did you develop pyrple.Graph to work with an explicit hash / pattern table for convenience sake or because you had no other alternative representation?
02:41:45 <chimezie> pyrple.Graph.maps and pyrple.Graph.patterns look eerily like a multi-columned index on an RDB table off s/p/o
02:42:09 <chimezie> .mw morphology
02:42:11 <phenny> Entry: mor·phol·o·gy /mor-'fä-l&-jE/, noun
02:42:15 <phenny> Entry: 1 a : a branch of biology that deals with the form and structure of animals and plants b : the form and structure of an organism or any of its parts2 a : a study and description of [...]
02:42:37 <chimezie> .ety metaphysics
02:42:41 <phenny> metaphysics: Middle English metaphesyk, from Medieval Latin metaphysica
02:43:23 <sbp> chimezie: it was the best internal structure I could think of for querying at the time
02:43:35 <sbp> see also http://inamidst.com/proj/rdf/rdfdb.py
02:48:40 <chimezie> does that particular api work with pyrple.Graph?
02:48:40 <sbp> no, it's a different API
02:48:40 <sbp> i.e. a transitional phase between pyrple and its successor
02:48:40 <sbp> a taste of things to come! :-)
02:49:04 <chimezie> .g xml api xupdate
02:49:06 <phenny> xml api xupdate: http://www.xmldatabases.org/projects/XUpdate-UseCases/
02:51:09 <MoiraA> ok, I'm off to bed
02:51:11 <MoiraA> nn
02:51:29 <chimezie> i imagine it wouldn't be too difficult to craft an RDF:DB API equivalent of XML:DB
02:51:54 <Talliesin> Talliesin has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:52:07 <chimezie> to abstract RDF stores from agents
02:53:02 <chimezie> 6-10 interfaces tops
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05:06:51 <uche> phenny, tell chimezie "an RDF:DB API equivalent of XML:DB" would be rad
05:06:53 <phenny> uche: I'll pass that on for you when chimezie is around.
05:07:03 <uche> We need such a tell-bot for #4suite
05:12:14 <sbp> on Freenode? I can throw her in there for you if you want
05:13:06 <uche> Oh
05:13:07 <uche> Sure
05:13:15 <uche> Thanks
05:13:36 <sbp> no problem
05:14:23 <Ash> sbp
05:14:25 <Ash> you are crushed
05:14:51 <Ash> I am watching Ali G show
05:15:27 <sbp> there's no way I can be crushed if you're watching Ali G
05:15:44 <sbp> you just can't do both things at the same time. Ali G is too awesome for that
05:15:57 <Ash> hehehe
05:15:59 <Ash> man it is so funny
05:16:14 <Ash> I also watched 'Ali G Indahouse' the other night
05:17:22 <Ash> martin freeman killed me in there
05:17:50 <uche> Ali G makes me cringe
05:17:55 <uche> But he's a genius
05:19:43 <sbp> he was very well received here five years ago
05:19:50 <sbp> past his zenith now, I'm sure. needs to come up with new stuff
05:20:00 <sbp> got a lot of flak for appearing on Parkinson in-character
05:22:25 <xover> That tells me about all I need to know about him.
05:23:35 <sbp> well he is a genius
05:23:56 <sbp> I think he's essentially destroyed every single person he's interviewed for wit and awesomeness, except for Tony Benn
05:26:45 <Ash> did a harvard commencement speech
05:28:38 <Ash> HUNG JURY
05:29:25 <Ash> <ali_g> but what's the size of they's dongs got to do wit' it
05:32:06 <cskaterun> cskaterun has quit ()
05:56:48 <xover> * xover NP: “I Just Wanna Make Love To You» by «Etta James»
05:57:27 <xover> [[[
05:57:28 <xover> and I can tell by the way // you walk that walk
05:57:28 <xover> I can hear by the way // you talk that talk
05:57:28 <xover> and I can know by the way // you treat your girl
05:57:28 <xover> that I could give you all the loving in the whole wide world
05:57:28 <xover> ]]]
06:02:48 <jetscreamer> is that before or after foghat did it
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11:16:55 <crschmidt> phenny: tell jsled not logged into idlerpg
11:16:57 <phenny> crschmidt: I'll pass that on for you when jsled is around.
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11:40:15 <Jibbler> sbp_
11:40:17 <Jibbler> "As an international company Unilever PLC and its operating companies receive many ideas so it is not possible to respond to proposals of this nature. We have numerous development teams who specifically research and explore ideas and they fully address our needs in this area."
11:40:21 <Jibbler> boo
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11:50:07 <sbp> hey Jibbler
11:50:15 <sbp> sbp_ just plays IdleRPG
11:50:20 <sbp> I do all the real work
11:50:36 <sbp> what was... oh, the Marmite Butter!
11:50:47 <sbp> heh, you actually wrote to them? that's so awesome
11:51:12 <sbp> "they fully address our needs in this area" - makes you wonder if Marmite Butter is on the way then
11:52:54 <libby> heh
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12:12:15 <Jibbler> sbp: either that, or their email response system already has a button for "marmite butter autoresponse"
12:14:42 <sbp> they probably scan the incoming mail for the words "(?i)marmite" and "(?i)butter"
12:15:09 <sbp> (and now for "(?i)Jibble")
12:15:16 <MoiraA> morning
12:15:22 <MoiraA> err ... afternoon
12:21:15 <sbp> hey Moira
12:21:26 <MoiraA> my day is getting muddled up
12:21:41 <MoiraA> I'm starting to go to bed around 4am and get up midday (not today since I had an interview though)
12:21:46 <MoiraA> I'm shattered
12:22:19 <sbp> ferry lag? :-)
12:22:20 <Morbus> Morbus (~morbus@pool-64-222-149-37.man.east.verizon.net) has joined #swhack
12:22:32 <MoiraA> no, late night lag + early morning interview :)
12:22:34 <sbp> speaking of ferry lag, here's Morbus!
12:22:38 <MoiraA> haha
12:22:39 <MoiraA> hi Morbus
12:22:40 <crschmidt> good mooooooooorning!
12:22:43 <Morbus> eh oh. just testing anical for a second.
12:22:49 <MoiraA> anical?
12:22:50 <Anical> anical is a bad bot. or a vewwy bad wittle boy or dumb
12:22:56 <MoiraA> ah, don't mention bots :/
12:23:08 <MoiraA> kept me up till 4 am trying to get a damned eggdrop to work
12:23:14 <sbp> 2 late. sry
12:23:25 <MoiraA> totally useless project anyway
12:23:33 <crschmidt> eggdrop--
12:23:33 <MoiraA> but I was determined not to be beaten by it :)
12:23:39 <crschmidt> only thing it's good for is megahal
12:23:46 <MoiraA> not that easy when it's on someone else's box and you're using putty
12:24:02 <sbp> eggdrop, hooh! good God ya'll! what is it good for?
12:24:05 <MoiraA> even changing its name meant hunting down the damned config file - no such thing as ./nick whatever
12:24:15 <MoiraA> ha - not too much as yet sbp :(
12:24:18 <MoiraA> it does !seen
12:24:30 <MoiraA> and I uploaded a talkz tcl script but can't get it working properly
12:24:49 <MoiraA> whenever someone joins the channel it says something in hebrew (I think)
12:24:51 <MoiraA> and that's it
12:24:55 <MoiraA> and
12:24:58 <MoiraA> it won't change servers
12:25:05 <MoiraA> so it's on qnet and I can't seem to move it
12:25:16 <MoiraA> but it's progress :)
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12:28:01 <sbp> <MoiraA> also, if I XOR every byte couplet and play the file as an MP3, it gives me Mendelssohn's 8th symphony. which is strange because Mendelssohn doesn't have an 8th symphony
12:28:17 <MoiraA> huh?
12:28:20 <MoiraA> when did I say that?
12:28:30 <sbp> it was a hypothetical
12:28:38 <MoiraA> oh.
12:28:59 <MoiraA> sounds like me drunk :)
12:29:07 <sbp> heh, heh
12:29:24 <sbp> the <nickname> fakequote syntax is a bit like IRC's equivalent of doing a bad voice impression
12:29:40 <MoiraA> it can be quite evil :)
12:29:45 <MoiraA> I've seen a script do that
12:29:56 <MoiraA> and everyone thinks that person really did say a load of abuse etc
12:30:12 <sbp> well then you just do it back to the script
12:30:18 <sbp> <Monty> I'm a little whoremonger
12:30:19 <MoiraA> if you know it's happening
12:30:21 <Monty> octal skillful heels desires repulsive light-green Pot Noodle.
12:30:27 <MoiraA> do this
12:30:38 <MoiraA> * MoiraA slaps you
12:30:46 <MoiraA> now did you see that?
12:30:51 <MoiraA> because I didn't and it won't be in my logs
12:31:04 <sbp> of course I saw it--you slapped me!
12:31:12 <MoiraA> yeah and I didn't see anything
12:31:18 <sbp> my polite indignation knows no bounds
12:31:20 <MoiraA> which is how someone can talk as you without you knowing
12:31:21 <MoiraA> lol
12:31:25 <MoiraA> * MoiraA apologises
12:31:38 <sbp> right, I remember this...
12:31:39 <MoiraA> and if you can't see what a script is doing, you can't talk back to it
12:31:41 <sbp> but it's not quite the same thing
12:31:48 <MoiraA> no, this was a horrible ctcp exploit
12:31:52 <sbp> aye
12:32:50 <Morbus> Morbus has quit ("http://disobey.com/")
12:32:53 <MoiraA> .. ctcp ^*:CMD:*:{ . $+ $2- | .halt } << get that onto someone's remote
12:33:01 <MoiraA> and you can effectively control their client
12:33:29 <jcowan> jcowan (~jcowan@a7cebc03.cst.lightpath.net) has joined #swhack
12:33:45 <jcowan> Ittywhonk!
12:33:48 <phenny> jcowan: 22 May 19:57Z <jessica> tell jcowan that we missed him in terms of archaic Lewis Carroll books, where did he hide those again?
12:33:50 <sbp> Wittyhonk, jc!
12:34:15 <sbp> I've no idea, for the record, what jessica meant
12:34:44 <jcowan> Fair enough.
12:35:09 <jcowan> I've read the ittydb code carefully, and I appreciate you writing it.
12:35:17 <sbp> but...
12:35:23 <jcowan> It was pretty easy to understand, despite not being a Pythonist.
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12:35:55 <sbp> oh, no but? awesome
12:36:02 <sbp> I really do need to rewrite it though
12:36:18 <sbp> implementing disjointWhat'sItsName with the current code would be a bit messy
12:36:43 <jcowan> mutually exclusive children?
12:37:01 <sbp> that's the one
12:37:04 <sbp> mEC
12:37:25 <jcowan> The next extension is to be able to pass a query (a list of keys) and return a list of matches.
12:37:45 <jcowan> The idea being that all the keys are ANDed, except that just in case two keys have a parent that has mEC, they are ORed.
12:38:04 <sbp> I'll make a note of that in the source
12:38:07 <sbp> loggy: URI?
12:38:07 <sbp> I'm logging. Sorry, searching removed.
12:38:11 <sbp> what?
12:38:15 <jcowan> loggy: pointer?
12:38:15 <jcowan> See http://swhack.com/logs/2005-05-23#T12-38-15
12:38:16 <crschmidt> loggy: bookmark
12:38:16 <crschmidt> See http://swhack.com/logs/2005-05-23#T12-38-16
12:38:18 <Anical> what is THE TERM HEARTBURN IS A MISNOMER IT'S ACTUALLY YOUR HEART DROWNING;
12:38:36 <jcowan> Asshole.
12:38:48 <jcowan> Anical?
12:38:49 <Anical> jcowan: No clue. Sorry.
12:38:56 <crschmidt> anical, anical?
12:39:10 <jcowan> He got that right [mutters]
12:39:14 <sbp> done
12:39:44 <jcowan> If a user specifies "Cat Dog", he clearly does not mean "cat and dog", e.g., but "cat or dog".
12:40:21 <sbp> unless he's Googling
12:41:24 <jcowan> True.
12:41:42 <jcowan> These are however category names rather than mere words, though this distinction may escape people.
12:41:46 <sbp> in which case he's really looking for Britney porn
12:41:57 <jcowan> .gc cat dog
12:41:59 <phenny> cat dog: 11,600,000
12:42:02 <jcowan> Gak.
12:42:15 <jcowan> .gc cat|dog
12:42:18 <phenny> cat|dog: 85,700,000
12:42:25 <nsh> nsh (nsh@nsh.wikipedia) has joined #swhack
12:42:27 <sbp> that seems too little to me
12:42:36 <sbp> hmm
12:42:38 <jcowan> The numbers are known to be incorrect.
12:42:39 <sbp> .gc cat^dog
12:42:42 <phenny> cat^dog: 11,600,000
12:42:46 <sbp> XOR would be great
12:42:57 <Jibbler> * Jibbler wants to pump regexps into google
12:42:58 <jcowan> Most puncs are treated as whitespace.
12:43:03 <jcowan> .gc cat
12:43:05 <phenny> cat: 114,000,000
12:43:09 <jcowan> .gc cat|cat
12:43:09 <sbp> some of their lower end googlecounts have been terrible lately
12:43:11 <phenny> cat|cat: 48,200,000
12:43:19 <sbp> probably their higher ends too, but one can't tell
12:43:27 <jcowan> There's the evidence.
12:43:29 <Jibbler> google/(cat|dog)s?/
12:43:34 <sbp> heh
12:43:40 <Jibbler> * Jibbler wants!
12:43:42 <jcowan> cat|cat is thought to be somewhat more reliable (or at least consistent).
12:44:14 <jcowan> * jcowan always hopes to see numbers like 37.
12:44:40 <Jibbler> http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=vn20050523065143776C837261
12:46:08 <jcowan> * jcowan deeply disapproves of the authorities' conduct, while not at all approving of microwaving live cats.
12:46:16 <Jibbler> harsh law enforcement
12:46:36 <jcowan> Very.
12:47:22 <sbp> how about microwaving the authorities, and the perps?
12:47:39 <sbp> (I suddenly understand the word "perps"--it's for people who can't spell)
12:47:48 <jcowan> Of course.
12:48:00 <jcowan> There used to be a whole tradition of cop-words of this type.
12:48:13 <jcowan> of which I recall offhand only "arsony".
12:49:04 <jcowan> 893 ghits.
12:49:28 <Jibbler> ooh, another use for PieSpy's graph thingy http://www.cs.kent.ac.uk/people/rpg/ads3/aisiid1b.png
12:50:11 <jcowan> Down.
12:50:30 <crschmidt> Works here.
12:50:45 <sbp> et here
12:52:24 <jcowan> http://www.eqc.ky.gov/special/essays/clark.htm demonstrates that one can have a Phud and still be criminally ignorant of the standard language; see the last word.
12:52:34 <jcowan> * jcowan retries.
12:54:09 <sbp> odd
12:54:15 <sbp> I keep getting this kind of thing:
12:54:15 <sbp> No recipient given (PRIVMSG)
12:54:15 <sbp> No recipient given (PRIVMSG)
12:54:24 <sbp> presumably from dircproxy
12:54:26 <Jibbler> sounds like your client is borked
12:54:55 <sbp> well it's intermittent. I'm sending out pingself messages to make sure I don't disconnect, but not all of them are getting error messages
12:55:01 <sbp> just a very small percentage
12:55:06 <sbp> assuming it's even that
12:59:06 <nsh> Monty remembers everything.
12:59:08 <Monty> cat^dog: 11,600,000
12:59:12 <nsh> see ;-)
12:59:12 <sbp> well done Monty
12:59:18 <Monty> Like, I type pretty well optimised and that's why they're not a religion because all that much to stop conversation
12:59:42 <nsh> btw sbp, is x^y that different from x XOR y, really?
13:00:12 <Jibbler> heh true, monty might spout that stuff out in a different channel :)
13:00:14 <Monty> uncle has a fight with pterodactyl!
13:00:30 <Jibbler> see, i said that in a different channel when my uncle was fighting a pterodactyl
13:00:38 <sbp> nsh: the former is shorter, hence the more obvious to type
13:00:47 <sbp> Google supports neither ^ nor XOR
13:00:58 <jcowan> Not surprising.
13:01:12 <nsh> :-) sbo
13:01:14 <nsh> *sbp
13:01:27 <Jibbler> it supports things like 2^2 :)
13:01:33 <sbp> mutating me from one network to another?
13:01:36 <sbp> heh
13:01:42 <nsh> shhh
13:01:43 <nsh> ;-)
13:01:56 <nsh> we are free
13:02:02 <nsh> but there are still rules to the game
13:03:12 <sbp> e.g. you can't look good in spandex
13:03:52 <nsh> hahaha
13:03:56 <nsh> touche
13:04:03 <nsh> we have webbing though
13:04:04 <nsh> :-)
13:04:22 <nsh> nsh: killing conversations since 1984
13:04:32 <nsh> what's the capital of Bhutan?
13:04:46 <sbp> rats, I should know
13:05:16 <sbp> * sbp looks it up, finds out, very nice
13:07:19 <jcowan> How do you pronounce the capital of North Dakota?
13:07:36 <jcowan> * jcowan , killing conversations since 1972 or so.
13:07:56 <nsh> I'd pronounce it e"ND"
13:07:57 <nsh> :-)
13:08:34 <nsh> lol
13:08:40 <nsh> haha
13:08:42 <sbp> hmm. I'll go for Bissmurk
13:08:58 <nsh> keep going...
13:09:28 <jcowan> * jcowan likes Eggshell White N3
13:09:53 <sbp> there are shades of N3 now?
13:10:40 <nsh> * nsh eats pie
13:11:36 <nsh> remember, forget, learn
13:11:44 <nsh> pick anyone
13:12:38 <sbp> oho
13:12:44 <sbp> "Across the Water we have Pierre, the capital of the state of North Dakota, pronounced "peer". Most people outside N.D. say it Frenchwise." - http://recycledknowledge.blogspot.com/2005/05/twice-recycled-swhack-tales.html
13:12:53 <sbp> vs. North Dakota
13:12:53 <sbp> Capital: Bismarck
13:12:58 <sbp> - http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&c2coff=1&q=capital+of+North+Dakota&btnG=Search
13:13:40 <sbp> "Capital: Bismarck" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Dakota
13:14:02 <jcowan> Should be South Dakota, obviously.
13:14:08 <jcowan> * jcowan goes off to fix his blog.
13:14:39 <sbp> well I was still seriously considering that you were right and Google and Wikipedia were wrong
13:14:40 <nsh> orgasmic :-)
13:15:10 <jcowan> Naah.
13:15:20 <jcowan> I came up with a clever idea the other day, or it came up with me, whatever.
13:16:32 <nsh> .
13:17:10 <sbp> * sbp smnts nsh
13:17:30 <sbp> (see, told you it'd come in handy jcowan)
13:17:42 <jcowan> Quite.
13:17:47 <jcowan> Blog fixed.
13:18:08 <jcowan> For a fully anonymous type/object system for Scheme.
13:18:11 <crschmidt> libsablot0c102 -- not the most intuitive package name ever.
13:18:31 <sbp> fixed: heh, you didn't just silently correct-whistle-and-walk-away either. cool
13:18:44 <jcowan> * jcowan is far too humble to do anything like that!
13:19:28 <jcowan> There is one procedure that does it all, make-type. You call it with one argument n, the number of instance variables you want, and get back 2n+3 procedures.
13:20:43 <jcowan> to wit, an object constructor, a predicate, n accessors, n mutators, and a subtype constructor.
13:21:17 <jcowan> So if you want a final/sealed type, just drop the subtype constructor; if you want read-only, drop the mutators.
13:22:13 <nsh> .
13:22:59 <bjoern_> bjoern_ (~bjoern@dsl-084-056-245-186.arcor-ip.net) has joined #swhack
13:23:13 <nsh> don't believe in limits :-)
13:24:18 <Arnia> Arnia (~ircont9k@pcp04897293pcs.mplsnt01.sc.comcast.net) has joined #swhack
13:24:24 <nsh> how many?
13:24:52 <nsh> smith will suffice
13:25:18 <jcowan> Not to understand the Smiths is not to understand KXU.
13:26:24 <nsh> to not understand can a blessing.
13:26:43 <jcowan> s/the/The
13:26:58 <nsh> oh are we definite now?
13:27:13 <nsh> i can smell uncertainty nting else
13:27:23 <nsh> *if nothing
13:27:34 <sbp> don't forget the copulaic verb, too
13:27:52 <nsh> frl
13:28:20 <nsh> it'd be easier if there were less deciet
13:28:40 <sbp> less what, pardon?
13:28:58 <nsh> perturbation
13:30:14 <nsh> ambit.
13:30:20 <nsh> gay
13:30:27 <sbp> ANYWAY, back on Planet Earth...
13:30:37 <sbp> jcowan: got anything in mind for the Scheme thing?
13:30:52 <jcowan> I'll probably post it as a SRFI.
13:30:54 <jetscreamer> did that say 'the fucking verb'?
13:31:12 <jetscreamer> copulaic
13:31:33 <jcowan> There's no standard object system for Scheme; it's fairly easy to roll your own, and there are a number of object libraries available.
13:31:42 <sbp> jetscreamer: kinda
13:31:58 <jetscreamer> yeah ok i see the kinda
13:32:00 <sbp> * sbp gets "Scheme Requests for Implementation"
13:33:19 <crschmidt> Hm. For some reason, on athena, bash run from inside of screen doesn't use the colors in the prompt
13:33:38 <jcowan> IMHO this one is very Scheme-y; it doesn't bind names, just generates procedures.
13:33:45 <sbp> * sbp wonders why the periods on http://srfi.schemers.org/draft-srfis.html are all slightly inconsistent
13:34:15 <jcowan> You can implement it on top of vectors (or you can implement vectors on top of it, by extending the syntax to accept #t as meaning "I want a variable number of instance variables"
13:34:22 <jcowan> s/syntax/semantics
13:34:35 <nsh> nice one
13:34:36 <sbp> crschmidt: where is your PS1 set?
13:34:53 <jcowan> crschmidt: also what is the value of $TERM?
13:34:55 <crschmidt> oh, ick
13:34:59 <crschmidt> The value of TERM is "screen"
13:35:09 <jcowan> Hey jingo!
13:35:10 <crschmidt> but the bashrc has a specific case for xterm-color
13:35:30 <nsh> lol
13:36:11 <jcowan> ("Hey jingo!" was traditional magician's patter for making something appear; the counterpart of "Hey presto!" for making things disappear. See Anaximancer.)
13:37:14 <sbp> (It's not in Anaximancer, nor anywhere on Ghyll)
13:37:33 <nsh> what isn't?
13:37:33 <jcowan> I know.
13:37:34 <Arnia> Arnia has quit ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
13:37:47 <nsh> mmm
13:38:03 <sbp> planned?
13:38:23 <nsh> projected
13:38:27 <jcowan> No, I was just referring to anaximancers as those who make things appear.
13:38:34 <sbp> nsh: http://gamegrene.com/wiki/
13:38:51 <sbp> a fantasy lexicon game some of us work at
13:39:04 <sbp> ah, I see. it'd make a good addition though
13:39:18 <nsh> you think?
13:39:20 <nsh> :-)
13:39:35 <sbp> well, I am
13:39:49 <nsh> you know that's a sore point
13:39:53 <nsh> :-)
13:40:12 <sbp> pfft. solipsist
13:40:22 <nsh> lol
13:40:27 <jcowan> Isn't everybody?
13:40:33 <nsh> you want to blame a mirror for reflecting?
13:40:34 <nsh> :-)
13:40:51 <sbp> jcowan: heh, heh (blammo, blammo)
13:40:51 <nsh> I blame the dutch
13:41:01 <nsh> :-)
13:41:45 <jcowan> In matters of commerce the fault of the Dutch / Is offering too little and asking too much.
13:42:17 <nsh> tricameral mind might look that way
13:45:10 <sbp> Firefox really needs to save pages as *.html by default instead of *.htm
13:45:20 <sbp> or at least have an option for doing so. very annoying
13:45:39 <jcowan> I think it depends on the last component of the URI.
13:46:20 <sbp> yeah, but:
13:46:28 <sbp> index.html -> index.html
13:46:31 <sbp> index.htm -> index.htm
13:46:35 <sbp> index -> index.htm
13:46:38 <sbp> the top two are fine
13:46:40 <jcowan> Huh.
13:46:43 <sbp> it's the bottom one that bugs me
13:46:52 <jcowan> Yeah, I can see that.
13:47:03 <sbp> basically any HTML that doesn't have a .html extension does the way of the .htm
13:47:06 <jcowan> Also, Firefox/Win32 doesn't associate itself with ".htm" by default.
13:47:19 <sbp> and for a long time it broke the "Edit" context menu item
13:47:39 <sbp> by overriding it and binding it to a non-working command
13:48:14 <sbp> s/does the way/goes the way/
13:48:40 <jcowan> I liked "does the way" better, as in "Thus shalt thou do the way of the Eagle."
13:49:08 <sbp> I tend to read "do the *" as being some kind of strange dance
13:49:51 <jcowan> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/loginataka.html
13:50:37 <sbp> "and praise to the Name of O'Reilly"
13:50:59 <sbp> puissance!
13:51:56 <crschmidt> http://crschmidt.net/albums/sparql?search=Foghorn
13:52:28 <sbp> this is really great, though
13:52:57 <jcowan> I tried to persuade esr to include it in TAOUP, but either he or his editors vetoed it.
13:55:15 <jetscreamer> is there supposed to be a picture on this page? http://crschmidt.net/albums/sparql?search=Foghorn
13:55:22 <jcowan> Yup.
13:55:39 <crschmidt> Not sure how well it works in all browsers: It's using CSS "Crop" to select an area of a larger picture.
13:55:48 <crschmidt> There's a link to the actual picture, as well as the flickr page.
13:55:52 <crschmidt> So you can click through to that if it doesn't work.
13:55:55 <jetscreamer> ya i see you in the link
13:56:02 <sbp> and ah, I'd wondered what that line was
13:56:04 <jetscreamer> just not that page
13:56:05 <sbp> (in White Rabbit)
13:59:11 <crschmidt> Anyway, of interest is that the Foghorn page is generated entirely using XSLT against a SPARQL query resultset, the XML for which is (now) included at the bottom of the page (in a comment)
14:03:55 <q8uv> * q8uv plays a leghorn
14:04:09 <jcowan> * jcowan plays a foghorn
14:08:36 <edsu> edsu (~esummers@host3131.follett.com) has joined #swhack
14:14:41 <jcowan> * jcowan wonders if the laundry put fabric softener in his clothes again, or if something else is triggering all these itches.
14:15:20 <sbp> perhaps Lilith's visiting NYC
14:15:48 <jcowan> Adam's first wife?
14:16:20 <sbp> not that one, no
14:17:26 <nsh> nsh has quit ()
14:18:45 <jcowan> * jcowan is beginning to think about Algol 2008.
14:19:05 <sbp> is that some kinda conference in Greece?
14:19:31 <jcowan> Nope, a new programming language to be invented by me.
14:19:37 <jcowan> In the Algol tradition.
14:19:44 <sbp> to be written in 2008?
14:19:57 <jcowan> To be finished by then, I hope!
14:20:03 <sbp> * sbp plays some Billie Holiday
14:20:09 <sbp> got spec?
14:20:12 <jcowan> Earlier versions are Algol-58, Algol-60, and Algol-68.
14:20:18 <jcowan> No spec yet, just some ideas.
14:20:21 <sbp> wow, they're *ancient*!
14:20:40 <jcowan> "Algol-60 was a great improvement on most of its successors." --Dijkstra
14:21:03 <sbp> hehe
14:21:41 <sbp> 'Since ALGOL 60 had no I/O facilities, there is no portable "Hello World" program in ALGOL.'
14:21:47 <sbp> - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALGOL
14:22:03 <jcowan> That is to say, I/O facilities weren't *standardized*.
14:22:09 <jcowan> This was before the concept of a standard library.
14:22:20 <sbp> aha
14:22:39 <jcowan> Before Algol-60, most languages had built-in verbs for I/O.
14:22:52 <sbp> see, "before the concept of a standard library" just doesn't compute for young'uns
14:22:56 <jcowan> Algol-68 had an I/O ("transput") system unmatched for hairiness.
14:23:30 <q8uv> We should recount the number of ALGOL users
14:24:43 <jcowan> Far and few, far and few are the lands where the Algolites live / Their heads are green, and their hands are blue, and they write their code with a sieve.
14:25:28 <sbp> that's hilarious
14:25:42 <sbp> sbp has changed the topic to: <jcowan> Far and few, far and few are the lands where the Algolites live / Their heads are green, and their hands are blue, and they write their code with a sieve.
14:26:28 <redmonk> redmonk (~steve@216.185.189.148) has joined #swhack
14:27:06 <crschmidt> remind me in 10 hours to look into setting up rotating logs for athena's apache
14:27:06 <Monty> crschmidt: Okay, I'll remind you about that on Tue May 24 01:24:11 BST 2005
14:27:09 <jcowan> Edward Lear was a fine old fellow, even if his limericks did have line 5 = line 1.
14:27:26 <jcowan> crschmidt: Huh. I didn't know that worked if you didn't say His name.
14:27:34 <sbp> just consider it The Lear Variation, perhaps
14:27:44 <sbp> * sbp neither
14:27:59 <sbp> (nor that l5 = l1 in Lear's lims/)
14:28:04 <sbp> s!/!.!
14:28:32 <sbp> I'm quite an ignorant chap really
14:28:39 <redmonk> hello all
14:28:52 <sbp> * sbp plays Long Tall Sally nontheless
14:28:55 <sbp> hey redmonk
14:29:04 <crschmidt> jcowan: yeah, I learned it on another bot, where someone mentioned "remind me" syntax without actually intending to use the bot
14:29:09 <sbp> heh. <simmo> oh ffs novell own suse now
14:29:25 <crschmidt> Hasn't that been the case for quite a while?
14:29:28 <jcowan> General Grant still dead, too.
14:30:09 <jcowan> http://homepages.stayfree.co.uk/gpj/lear.htm is an attempt to spruce up some Lear limericks by adding new fifth lines. They aren't *quite* identical to line 1, just too close for (modern) comfort.
14:30:26 <sbp> General Grant?
14:30:40 <sbp> (I know who he is, for a change; but not why you mention him)
14:31:17 <jcowan> It's the prototypical headline-that-doesn't-give-the-news.
14:31:46 <sbp> ah. the less provocative well duh
14:33:57 <jcowan> See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalissimo_Francisco_Franco_is_still_dead .
14:34:18 <sbp> so there's only been a prototypical headline since Grant passed? or did it replace an earlier one? :-)
14:34:25 <redmonk> ooooh, they're working on an Ender's Game movie
14:34:31 <sbp> ah, there are variants across languages too
14:34:33 <redmonk> http://www.aintitcoolnews.com/display.cgi?id=20287
14:35:00 <jcowan> sbp: Headlines aren't even as old as General Grant, really.
14:35:19 <jcowan> Before that there were only labels, like "The War" or "Situation In India".
14:35:43 <jcowan> True headlines, one-sentence (often verbless) summaries of the news, pretty much appeared in the Hearst papers around 1898.
14:36:34 <jcowan> With some exceptions, like this one in 1781: "CORNWALLIS TAKEN!"
14:36:36 <sbp> (thanks. more Googlepediaing!)
14:36:43 <sbp> CORNWALLIS TAKEN!?
14:36:58 <jcowan> The final large battle of the American Revolution.
14:37:05 <jcowan> Cornwallis being the British general.
14:37:05 <sbp> "William studied at Harvard University (18821885), but was expelled for sending faculty members chamber pots with the recipient's picture adorning the inside bottom."
14:38:13 <jcowan> My brother studied at Harvard, but was expelled too; I forget why.
14:38:27 <sbp> same thing, perhaps
14:38:35 <jcowan> My other brother went to Columbia, and was expelled for wanton discharge of a fire extinguisher in the hallway.
14:38:46 <sbp> he got expelled just for that? harsh
14:39:01 <jcowan> Later, the first brother joined the Harvard Club, an act of chutzpah probably unparalleled even in my family.
14:40:28 <sbp> odd amount of loyalty to your universities in the States
14:40:37 <sbp> seems to happen rarely to never here
14:40:44 <sbp> oh!
14:40:54 <sbp> reminds me of an awesome news segment on BBC News the other day
14:41:00 <sbp> I think it was yesterday, actually
14:41:10 <chimezie> chimezie (~ogbujic@192.35.79.81) has joined #swhack
14:41:55 <sbp> they had four journalists on: one American guy, a woman from The Independent, a woman from Portugal, and a middle eastern guy whose affiliation I didn't catch
14:42:09 <jcowan> sbp: fire extinguishers are sacred.
14:42:45 <sbp> the topic was all American war atrocities in the previous few years, and, on a wider scale, how the entire !American world basically hates American in general now
14:42:56 <jcowan> Hates America or Americans?
14:43:30 <sbp> hates America. this is the BBC, don't forget: they were still balanced and fair. they noted that only half of the country voted in the corrupt sleazebags again
14:43:46 <sbp> but even I was shocked, really, at the level of anger
14:43:55 <sbp> even the American journalist was basically saying "fair enough"
14:44:12 <jcowan> It goes back a long way: http://xroads.virginia.edu/~DRBR/sitting.html
14:44:19 <sbp> he said that he thinks most Americans would be absolutely shocked at the extraordinary level of anti-American sentiment all over the world now
14:44:21 <jcowan> Mark Twain, "To the Person Sitting in Darkness"
14:44:34 <dmiles_afk> dmiles_afk has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
14:44:38 <dmiles> dmiles (dmiles@bdsl.66.14.82.104.gte.net) has joined #swhack
14:44:47 <sbp> but the thing I was reminded of was that they discussed Galloway's hearing in front of congress, and how he basically knocked them for six
14:45:23 <sbp> they came to the conclusion that the political system is just too patriotic in America such that even Kerry couldn't just come out and say "Bush is wrong: his war on terror is creating *more* reason to attack America"
14:46:05 <jcowan> * jcowan didn't know about this hearing; investigating.
14:46:24 <sbp> and that that's why Galloway was such a shock to everyone, because nobody has the nerve to really stand up and just decry the sleaze for what it is, whereas in Britain (and probably many places besides) it's just the absolute order of the day--no quarter given, none asked
14:47:01 <sbp> they also laughed at how stupid the American adminstration was to have tried to do that to Galloway and not done research beforehand; and I agree
14:47:27 <crschmidt> I've heard a couple of clips of Galloway speaking, in front of the US Senate, I believe. He definitely sounded like someone I could get behind.
14:47:57 <sbp> I think basically every UK paper had something good to say about him after that
14:48:01 <sbp> which is very scary
14:48:39 <jcowan> Talking turkey to Americans is almost a lost art.
14:48:53 <jcowan> Most are either sycophants or smarms.
14:49:03 <sbp> three references:
14:49:04 <sbp> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4557717.stm
14:49:08 <sbp> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4557699.stm
14:49:13 <sbp> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4553601.stm
14:49:36 <sbp> '"Now I know that standards have slipped over the last few years in Washington, but for a lawyer, you are remarkably cavalier with any idea of justice," the MP declared.'
14:50:09 <sbp> '"Senator, in everything I said about Iraq, I turned out to be right and you turned out to be wrong," he told the chairman, whom he labelled a "neo-con, pro-war hawk".'
14:50:24 <crschmidt> Yeah, that's the bit I heard
14:50:29 <sbp> :-)
14:50:34 <crschmidt> His accent was totally awesome too
14:50:48 <sbp> ah, didn't think about that
14:51:06 <jcowan> "Galloway - I caught some of the hearing this morning - is one of the most completely histrionic and narcissistic individuals that I have ever witnessed, and I'm saying that as a psych nurse." -- comment on a blog
14:52:03 <sbp> he's difficult to assess. he was voted MP for a very difficult seat to secure, though
14:55:17 <jcowan> Borderers in general take no (@#$* from anyone, in my experience.
14:55:30 <Jibbler> * Jibbler is happy being ignorant of politics
14:56:41 <jcowan> "I am not now, nor have I ever been"; happiest American allusion by a British politician since "No representation without taxation".
14:56:46 <sbp> another choice bit of the BBC segment: the American journalist said he thought it'd take fifteen years of making all the right decisions (implying ousting Bush at the next elections) to repair the view that the rest of the world has of the American government
14:57:21 <jcowan> Complete transcript/video at http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article8869.htm
14:57:23 <sbp> what's it a reference to?
14:57:33 <chimezie> chimezie has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
14:57:38 <jcowan> "... a member of the Communist Party."
14:57:56 <jcowan> Implying that it's a red-baiting McCarthyist smear.
14:58:28 <sbp> ah, aye
15:01:46 <jcowan> Parliamentary debates always seem astoundingly rude to Americans used to the very different style of Capitol Hill.
15:01:56 <themaximus_> themaximus_ has quit (Success)
15:02:25 <themaximus__> themaximus__ (max@themaximus.user) has joined #swhack
15:02:50 <jcowan> "I am not now, nor have I ever been, a supporter of Stalin, Trotsky, Mao, Castro, Peron, Guevara, Zorro the Great, Zorba the Greek, or Hank the Angry Drunken Dwarf." --Charles Kuffner
15:03:42 <crschmidt> jcowan: Based on what I've been hearing recently, I'd really prefer the British style parlimentary debates. They may be rude, but at least they don't seem to be lying quite as often
15:04:28 <jcowan> Oh, I don't know.
15:04:47 <jcowan> Most people assume that rudeness -> sincerity. That's dangerous, because a clever person can manipulate it.
15:05:47 <sbp> lying quite as often: generally they lie all the time
15:05:49 <crschmidt> Possibly. Maybe I just like a good fight. Capitol Hill seems to be full of old fogeys to me, which isn't the impression I get from Parliment. But I'm so apolitical that could be completely wrong.
15:06:02 <sbp> but the others are there to pick them up on it at every point
15:06:05 <sbp> hence the fun
15:06:29 <jcowan> The traditions of Congress evolved in an era when members tended to be armed.
15:06:31 <sbp> the Hansards really aren't all that great most of the time--but generally the high-profile debates are very good
15:06:42 <sbp> the traditions of Parliament did too!
15:06:58 <sbp> do you have sword lines painted across the floor of congress?
15:07:01 <jcowan> Consider Pride's Purge.
15:07:11 <jcowan> Fair enough.
15:08:26 <sbp> * sbp reads http://www.british-civil-wars.co.uk/glossary/prides-purge.htm
15:09:30 <sbp> 'The imprisoned Members were held overnight in a nearby tavern familiarly known as "Hell".'
15:10:01 <jcowan> "Now, one of the most serious of the mistakes you have made in this set of documents is, to be frank, such a schoolboy howler as to make a fool of the efforts that you have made."
15:10:15 <jcowan> Obviously Galloway was going to say "make a fool of you", but he caught himself.
15:10:56 <jcowan> * jcowan once roomed with a Texan who claimed descent from Col. Pride
15:11:08 <sbp> did he let you in?
15:11:35 <jcowan> Sure. He was a nice fella, even if (like many Texans) he had long thumbs.
15:11:46 <jcowan> "That's why they're always smiling."
15:11:55 <sbp> * sbp won't ask
15:13:40 <jcowan> Picture a stereotypical cowboy with his thumbs in his front belt-loops.
15:14:14 <sbp> okay
15:15:01 <sbp> yeah, I really shouldn't've asked
15:15:25 <sbp> you should write those Algol 2008ideas down
15:15:33 <sbp> 2008 ideas on Algol
15:17:27 <jcowan> I will.
15:17:30 <jcowan> I only got the idea on Saturday.
15:17:45 <sbp> * sbp nods
15:17:49 <jcowan> The basic idea is to use what's been discovered in the seven Scheme reports and reincorporate it.
15:18:04 <sbp> .g "seven Scheme reports"
15:18:05 <jcowan> Scheme considers itself the successor of Algol in some sense.
15:18:05 <phenny> "seven Scheme reports": sorry, no results were found.
15:18:15 <jcowan> .g R5Rs
15:18:15 <phenny> R5Rs: http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/
15:18:38 <jcowan> R5RS stands for Revised^5 Report on the algorithmic language Scheme
15:18:46 <sbp> thanks
15:18:56 <jcowan> A deliberate allusion to the title of the Algol-60 report and revised report "on the algorithmic language Algol"
15:18:58 <sbp> * sbp goes to http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-2.html#%_toc_start and finds seven sections
15:19:03 <jcowan> Coincidence.
15:19:06 <sbp> ah
15:19:16 <sbp> what're the other reports then?
15:19:22 <jcowan> But if it's revised revised revised revised revised then it had six predecessors.
15:19:37 <jcowan> hmm, fencepost error
15:19:47 <jcowan> five predecessors, six reports in all
15:21:32 <jcowan> .g r4rs
15:21:32 <phenny> r4rs: http://www.swiss.ai.mit.edu/~jaffer/r4rs_toc.html
15:21:36 <jcowan> .g r3rs
15:21:37 <phenny> r3rs: http://computing-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/R3RS
15:21:43 <jcowan> (Bad hit there).
15:23:22 <jcowan> "Teach Yourself Scheme in Fixnum Days": excellent intro to Scheme w/o advocacy
15:23:35 <chimezie> chimezie (~ogbujic@192.35.79.81) has joined #swhack
15:23:39 <sbp> (sorry, was pedant warring with crschmidt on #swig)
15:24:27 <sbp> are all of the pre-R5RS reports redundant now then?
15:24:34 <jcowan> Yes.
15:25:18 <jcowan> The SRFIs that I mentioned earlier are piecemeal bits of standardization, since it's unlikely that there'll ever be an R6RS.
15:25:37 <jcowan> Nothing can go into scheme if even one of the Scheme cabal vetoes it.
15:25:39 <sbp> * sbp tries to find a one-hella-big-page version of Teach Yourself Scheme...
15:25:52 <jcowan> I just wget'd them and cat'd them.
15:25:59 <jcowan> Firefox is quite forgiving about cat'd HTML pages.
15:26:15 <jcowan> wget -r -l 1 is your friend.
15:26:23 <jcowan> or is it -l 2, I forget
15:26:58 <sbp> I wrote a little script ages ago to cat all the bodies of HTML pages properly
15:27:05 <sbp> wget: well, there's http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/dorai/t-y-scheme/t-y-scheme-html.tar.gz
15:27:23 <_jeannie_watson> _jeannie_watson has left #swhack
15:28:08 <jcowan> Yeah.
15:28:41 <sbp> hmm
15:28:57 <mattis_> mattis_ (~mattis@p54BD7AC2.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #swhack
15:28:57 <Monty> hey mattis_
15:29:04 <jcowan> Shh, Monty
15:29:07 <Monty> I reckon bear + refresh-rate = cellophane...
15:29:11 <sbp> wget could do with an option that limits pages to get to being under the basedir of the URI being... gotten. if that makes sense
15:29:32 <jcowan> I think it does, and congratulations for using gotten correctly a la Americain.
15:29:44 <sbp> it does: with -r -l 1/2?
15:29:49 <sbp> and no problem
15:29:54 <deltab> sbp: -np
15:30:38 <jcowan> Americans wince when British authors have their American characters say things like "He hasn't gotten any sense".
15:30:48 <sbp> deltab: aha. cool, thanks
15:30:54 <deltab> np
15:30:57 <sbp> heh
15:30:58 <jcowan> == he hasn't *acquired* any sense, in righteous en-us.
15:30:58 <crschmidt> ... heh
15:31:36 <sbp> yes, I'd read that as acquired too
15:31:40 <jcowan> wget -L often does the right thing.
15:31:43 <sbp> and gotten sounds entirely natural to me
15:31:56 <sbp> I was surprised when I first had it pointed out to me that it's an Americanism, even
15:31:57 <jcowan> Huh. Must be leakage into en-gb, then.
15:32:11 <sbp> could be, or it could just be that I speak to Americans all day long :-)
15:32:25 <sbp> and then watch the Simpsons and Frasier and Friends of an evening
15:32:36 <jcowan> My understanding was that the en-gb version of "He hasn't got any sense" is simply "He hasn't any sense", which is unnatural but not wrong in en-us.
15:32:49 <sbp> yeah
15:33:04 <jcowan> and that "gotten" was obsolete save in "ill-gotten".
15:33:06 <sbp> but with gotten, it changes the meaning to "he hasn't picked up any sense"
15:33:12 <jcowan> Indeed.
15:33:16 <sbp> ill-gotten's pretty obsolete
15:33:31 <jcowan> except in ill-gotten gains.
15:33:47 <sbp> even there it's a bit of a cliche
15:33:50 <jcowan> Indeed.
15:35:00 <jcowan> Apt alliteration's artful aid, as the poet Pope proclaimed.
15:35:43 <sbp> jcowan: you have email from Morbus, by the way
15:36:05 <jcowan> As the pedant Tolkien proclaimed, however, "alliteration" alliterates on "l", and the other three words alliterate because they all begin with vowels: "old English art" alliterates likewise.
15:36:10 <jcowan> * jcowan checks
15:36:21 <sbp> choice quote: "I don't care to unsuck"
15:37:07 <jcowan> At least Morbus can spell "orthogonality"
15:38:31 <jcowan> A transatlantic conversation: "Do you have many children?" "Oh no, only one a year."
15:38:52 <sbp> at least? I didn't put him down!
15:38:59 <sbp> even his .sig is awesome, from the Jargon file
15:39:24 <jcowan> Suxor. Now I can't use that one myself.
15:39:27 <sbp> :-)
15:39:58 <jcowan> Or as they say in Wales, "Swxôr".
15:40:02 <chimezie> chimezie has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:40:04 <sbp> which side is en-us on that conversation?
15:40:10 <jcowan> The question.
15:40:11 <sbp> there's an x in Welsh now?
15:40:30 <sbp> it'd be swcso^r, I think
15:40:33 <jcowan> In Welsh haxorese, there'd have to be.
15:40:37 <sbp> true
15:41:16 <jcowan> en-gb version: "Have you many children?"
15:41:38 <sbp> nah, "have you got many kids?"
15:41:53 <jcowan> Different register.
15:42:06 <chimezie> chimezie (~ogbujic@192.35.79.81) has joined #swhack
15:42:16 <sbp> well, "do you have many children" would certainly be interepreted in the en-us way
15:42:21 <jcowan> The point is that en-gb doesn't always demand do-support for "have" used as a main verb (=possess, bear, etc.)
15:42:41 <jcowan> sbp: sure. Context is all. But the other interp is possible at least in theory.
15:42:47 <sbp> yep
15:42:54 <sbp> it's not possible at all in en-us?
15:43:03 <jcowan> Not sure any more.
15:43:07 <sbp> heheh
15:43:17 <jcowan> * jcowan is a partisan of en-us spelling, but refuses to countenance "anymore".
15:43:30 <sbp> what about "alright"?
15:43:36 <jcowan> Even worse.
15:43:42 <sbp> "thru"?
15:43:49 <jcowan> Soon to be followed by "alnite", doubtless.
15:44:10 <jcowan> "Thru" is in a different class; nobody writes it out of mere ignorance.
15:44:19 <mattis> mattis has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:44:49 <sbp> hmm. I can't think of anything more abominable than thru
15:44:59 <sbp> otherwise it would've got you back for the COBOL incident
15:45:00 <jcowan> It's always a self-conscious error, like "brang" for "brought".
15:45:09 <jcowan> "thru" is, that is.
15:45:15 <sbp> or borkulated for borken
15:45:44 <deltab> .gc thru-put
15:45:47 <schepers> schepers (~schepers@cpe-065-187-210-222.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #swhack
15:45:47 <phenny> thru-put: 104,000
15:45:47 <jcowan> "Thruway" is standard, though, as the name of the main highway in New York State. "Throughway" would look bizarre.
15:45:52 <sbp> much accruant of the borkules
15:46:05 <sbp> borkularicly accruent
15:46:05 <deltab> .gc thruput
15:46:08 <phenny> thruput: 92,200
15:46:09 <jcowan> But "thruway" isn't generic.
15:46:20 <jcowan> Obviously pronounced thrupp-it.
15:46:20 <sbp> .gc thrufare
15:46:20 <Jibbler> same with boro and borough... lazy american spelling :)
15:46:22 <phenny> thrufare: 63
15:46:36 <sbp> .gc throughfare
15:46:38 <phenny> throughfare: 12,100
15:46:39 <sbp> .gc thoroughfare
15:46:43 <phenny> thoroughfare: 695,000
15:46:49 <jcowan> Jibbler: Blame that on the Board of Geographic Names, which was trying to chop all official locality names to fit on an Addressograph machine.
15:47:04 <sbp> .g Addressograph
15:47:04 <phenny> Addressograph: http://www.addressograph.com/
15:48:32 <jcowan> Hence their unfortunate surgery on Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchabunagungamaugg, which we have discussed before.
15:49:15 <jcowan> -> Lake Webster
15:49:45 <sbp> your first exposition of that is the funniest of all the results for the name
15:49:50 <mattis_> mattis_ has quit (Connection timed out)
15:49:51 <sbp> 21:15:39 <jcowan> In Massachusetts, we have Lake
15:49:51 <sbp> Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchabunagungamaugg, commonly called Lake Webster.
15:49:59 <sbp> - http://swhack.com/logs/2005-03-02
15:50:06 <jcowan> The fine old town of "De L'eaux" along the Missisippi is now known by the intolerable name of "Dlo".
15:50:29 <sbp> why did they need to shorten that?
15:51:09 <sbp> I like your tact there
15:51:11 <mattis_> mattis_ (~mattis@p54BD3BD9.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #swhack
15:51:15 <sbp> I would've entirely messed that up
15:51:20 <sbp> "Dlo is *awful*"
15:51:24 <sbp> "er, the name, I mean"
15:52:08 <sbp> but now I must ask if you've ever been there
15:52:29 <jcowan> No.
15:53:03 <jcowan> I'm pretty sure it was the apostrophe that did it.
15:53:28 <jcowan> e.g. "Golden's Bridge, N.Y." is now "Goldens Bridge, NY"
15:53:42 <sbp> hmm. hard place to Google for
15:54:36 <jcowan> Sorry, it's "de Laux", not "de l'eaux", which would be bad French.
15:54:57 <jcowan> They didn't dare change New York to Newyork, thank Ghu.
15:55:06 <jcowan> Although it was New-York, long ago.
15:55:10 <sbp> what about Newark?
15:55:48 <jcowan> AFAIK that has always been so spelled.
15:55:49 <Jibbler> jcowan: shouldn't that be an adresograf? :)
15:55:52 <jcowan> Isn't there one in English?
15:55:59 <jcowan> s/English/England
15:56:00 <sbp> must be derived from New York though, no?
15:56:13 <sbp> ah. hmm
15:56:32 <sbp> yeah
15:56:42 <sbp> useful finding a roadmap right under your arm
15:57:05 <jcowan> Newark NJ (the well-known one) is pronounced "Noo-urk", whereas Newark, Delaware is more like "New Ark".
15:57:20 <sbp> Newark-on-Trent, but not sure how it's pronounced
15:57:29 <sbp> it's between Lincoln and Nottingham
15:57:31 <jcowan> Probably Nurk.
15:57:43 <sbp> the whole thing's probably "nent"
15:57:57 <sbp> with a glottal stop for the t
15:58:21 <jcowan> Are there really collapsed prons of x-on-y town names?
15:58:45 <chimezie> chimezie has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:58:51 <sbp> none that I can think of
15:59:01 <jcowan> The two Frankfurts in Germany are usually written "Frankfurt a.M." (am Mein) and "Frankfurt a.d. Oder" (an der Oder)
15:59:52 <jcowan> The New-York Historical Society proudly retains its titular hyphen.
16:00:08 <redmonk> redmonk has quit ()
16:00:09 <sbp> awesome, found a place called "Mow Cop"
16:00:23 <sbp> maps are way too addictive
16:00:32 <sbp> * sbp puts his down
16:00:40 <jcowan> Down map! Down, I say!
16:00:53 <sbp> it obeyed
16:01:01 <jcowan> * jcowan has a National Geographic world map on the wall of his hall.
16:01:08 <sbp> good call
16:01:12 <jcowan> They sell it in wallpaper form.
16:01:22 <sbp> I used to have a world map on my bedroom wall, but I haven't currently
16:01:29 <sbp> should put something geographical up
16:01:32 <sbp> wallpaper: heh!
16:01:40 <sbp> seriously?
16:01:43 <jcowan> It doesn't curl up, tear, etc. as world maps often do.
16:02:06 <deltab> .gc collapsed-pron
16:02:08 <phenny> collapsed-pron: 58
16:02:17 <sbp> I'd like one of the bucky projection posters, now I think of it
16:02:37 <sbp> http://www.bfi.org/map.htm
16:02:56 <sbp> or a classic map, perhaps; one of Mercator's
16:03:28 <jcowan> * jcowan laughs and points fingers at "bfi"
16:03:41 <sbp> hmm?
16:03:43 <Anical> hmm is I HAVE HUNTED DOWN AND SUCKED MANY AN ESCAPED DONG.;
16:03:48 <jcowan> @acronym bfi
16:04:05 <supybot> jcowan: bfi could be Bad Frame Indicator (3GPP), or Basic Flight Instructor (aviation), or Basic Flight Instrument, or Bassett Furniture Industries, Inc., or Battle Field Interdiction, or Battle Force Interoperability, or Bearing Frequency Indicator, or Benefit Fraud Inspectorate, or Bilateral Finance Institution, or Bioingeniørfaglig Institutt (Norwegian Institute of Biomedical (1 more message)
16:04:21 <jcowan> or Brute Force and Ignorance, which is what I had in mind.
16:04:28 <sbp> @more jcowan
16:04:29 <supybot> sbp: Science), or Bottom Fitting Insert, or Brain Functional Imaging, or Branch Fan-In, or Brighter Futures Initiative, or British Film Institute, or Broadcasting Foundation, Inc., or Browning-Ferris Industries, Inc., or Brute Force and Ignorance, or Buckminster Fuller Institute, or Bulk Fuel Installation
16:04:38 <sbp> right next to it
16:04:47 <deltab> hmm, Bassett Furniture Industries
16:04:52 <jcowan> Bah.
16:04:53 <sbp> not a Bucky fan?
16:04:59 <deltab> leather or liquorice -- can you tell the difference?
16:05:10 <jcowan> When chewing on them, certainly.
16:05:19 <jcowan> sbp: Geodesic domes *leak*.
16:05:20 <sbp> yeah. not from a long distance
16:05:48 <sbp> it gets you back to nature!
16:05:57 <jcowan> Anical is a naugahyde rimmer of rusty '58 Chevy exhaust pipes.
16:06:26 <sbp> Anical: Anical is also a naugahyde rimmer of rusty '58 Chevy exhaust pipes
16:06:27 <Anical> sbp: okay.
16:06:30 <sbp> Anical?
16:06:30 <Anical> sbp: No clue. Sorry.
16:06:37 <sbp> Anical: Anical?
16:06:37 <Anical> sbp: Anical is a bad bot. or a vewwy bad wittle boy or dumb or a naugahyde rimmer of rusty '58 Chevy exhaust pipes
16:07:09 <sbp> heh. it's like supybot being lowest in its own karma rankings
16:07:17 <sbp> you can always tell which bots aren't popular
16:07:22 <sbp> they point themselves out
16:07:28 <jcowan> phenny: phenny?
16:07:37 <crschmidt> phenny?
16:07:37 <Anical> phenny is Monty's nemesis.
16:07:41 <Monty> IMHO, epistolary chomping dildo was lots of mental tyres.
16:07:46 <crschmidt> Monty?
16:07:47 <Anical> Monty is an expert in plays with Murray Walker's games and over-rated tangled scrotal fluid
16:07:48 <Monty> likes staples.
16:07:49 <Monty> tasteless finite deodorant :(
16:07:50 <jcowan> Perfect!
16:08:02 <jcowan> Supybot?
16:08:02 <Anical> Supybot is an inverse-karma whore.
16:08:03 <supybot> Anical: Error: "is" is not a valid command.
16:08:03 <Anical> supybot: okay.
16:08:04 <supybot> Anical: Error: "okay." is not a valid command.
16:08:05 <Anical> supybot: okay.
16:08:06 <supybot> Anical: Error: "okay." is not a valid command.
16:08:06 <Anical> supybot: ... but Error: "okay." is not a valid command. ...
16:08:07 <supybot> Anical: Error: "..." is not a valid command.
16:08:07 <Anical> supybot: okay.
16:08:08 <supybot> Anical: Error: "okay." is not a valid command.
16:08:09 <Anical> supybot: ... but Error: "okay." is not a valid command. ...
16:08:10 <supybot> Anical: You've given me 5 invalid commands within the last minute; I'm now ignoring you for 10 minutes.
16:08:14 <sbp> awesome
16:08:29 <jcowan> * jcowan rotfls.
16:08:40 <crschmidt> Error: "okay."?
16:08:40 <Anical> Error: "okay." is not a valid command.
16:08:53 <jcowan> julie?
16:08:53 <crschmidt> Error: "..."?
16:08:54 <Anical> Error: "..." is not a valid command.
16:09:04 <jcowan> Anical: Julie?
16:09:04 <Anical> jcowan: No clue. Sorry.
16:09:24 <jcowan> Anical: Julie is a three-input lady.
16:09:24 <Anical> jcowan: okay.
16:09:32 <sbp> Anical: Julie is also Monty and Supybot and phenny's sister-in-law from out of planet
16:09:33 <Anical> sbp: okay.
16:09:33 <Monty> sbp :(
16:09:38 <sbp> sorry Monty
16:09:40 <Monty> check out pingself messages (i know them)
16:09:48 <jcowan> Anical: teddybot?
16:09:49 <Anical> jcowan: No clue. Sorry.
16:09:49 <teddybot> I see.
16:09:55 <sbp> I found that immensely funny for some reason
16:10:05 <jcowan> Which one?
16:10:11 <sbp> the pingself messages one
16:10:17 <sbp> much LOLing
16:10:25 <jcowan> Same here.
16:10:32 <deltab> sbp: off-planet, surely, unless you mean troglodytes
16:10:38 <jcowan> I really did come close to falling out of my chair at supy vs. anical.
16:10:45 <sbp> deltab: by analogy to out of state
16:11:04 <sbp> yeah, that was pretty damn great
16:11:15 <deltab> you can be in a town or a state, but rarely in a planet
16:11:31 <sbp> which is what makes it funny
16:11:39 <jcowan> Unless you are Arne Saknussemm.
16:12:04 <jcowan> Anical: lisppaste2 is the best of a bad bunch of bots.
16:12:05 <Anical> jcowan: okay.
16:12:21 <sbp> or a geothermal prospector
16:12:29 <sbp> and *that* would make a good sci-fi plot
16:12:55 <jcowan> "In Sneffels yoculis craterem ken delebat.
16:12:55 <jcowan> Umbra Scartaris Julii intra calendas descende.
16:12:55 <jcowan> Audas viator, et terrestre centrum attinges,
16:12:55 <jcowan> Kod feci. Arne Saknussemm."
16:13:30 <deltab> I recognise that name from somewhere
16:13:42 <deltab> oh yeah, the Thursday Next books
16:14:05 <jcowan> _Journey to the Center of the Earth_, by Jules Verne
16:14:21 <jcowan> That version is typo-ridden, sorry.
16:14:23 <deltab> so I get the reference now! thanks, jcowan
16:14:35 <jcowan> "In Sneffels Yoculi craterem kem delibat
16:14:35 <jcowan> umbra Scartaris Julii intra calendas descende,
16:14:35 <jcowan> audas viator, et terrestre centrum attinges.
16:14:35 <jcowan> Kod feci. Arne Saknussemm."
16:14:53 <jcowan> No Q or X, for some reason.
16:15:03 <jcowan> Well, it's the plaintext of a cipher.
16:15:05 <sbp> the hun stole it
16:15:33 <jcowan> Hence kod = quod, audas = audax.
16:15:49 <sbp> deltab: still not up to The Eyre Affair yet, sorry!
16:16:10 <jcowan> Or in plain French:
16:16:13 <jcowan> "Descends dans le cratère du Yocul de
16:16:13 <jcowan> Sneffels que l'ombre du Scartaris vient
16:16:13 <jcowan> caresser avant les calendes de Juillet,
16:16:13 <jcowan> voyageur audacieux, et tu parviendras
16:16:13 <jcowan> au centre de la terre. Ce que j'ai fait.
16:16:14 <jcowan> Arne Saknussemm."
16:16:31 <sbp> reminds me
16:16:36 <sbp> did you see Imkrozh, jcowan?
16:16:46 <jcowan> Yes. Cool idea, meant to comment, didn't for some reason.
16:16:57 <jcowan> The vowel shift is almost plausible.
16:17:01 <sbp> no problem. thought it might be up your alley
16:17:15 <sbp> it worked better than I expected it to
16:18:05 <jcowan> At Extreme this year, ERH is presenting a paper on one-way obscuring of XML.
16:18:22 <sbp> one-way? why would you want that?
16:18:28 <sbp> just rm it, surely :-)
16:18:36 <sbp> that's one way, and obscures it perfectly
16:18:41 <sbp> unless it was an empty document to start with
16:18:53 <jcowan> Abstract: [[[
16:18:54 <jcowan> When describing bugs or reporting performance problems in XML processing software, it is essential to be able to submit actual documents that demonstrate the problems. However, many XML documents contain sensitive, proprietary, or classified data that cannot be shared. The solution? The Randomizer is a Sax-based open-source tool that removes almost all the information content of a document, replacing it with randomly generated data. The structu
16:18:54 <jcowan> re of the data is maintained, even to such details as characters not moving outside their Unicode block and punctuation characters remaining punctuation. While the result is not military grade (for example, the length of the message and the number and positions of the elements are retained), the original content is obscured in an irreversible way that allows test cases to be shared without revealing confidential information.
16:18:56 <jcowan> ]]]
16:19:06 <sbp> ooh, I see
16:19:17 <sbp> very cool
16:19:52 <sbp> I'd be surprised if it didn't have even a little of the "cem emyputy dirr whed o'n zeyomk?" problem, though
16:20:07 <sbp> that is, if you're retaining structure, you're retaining information
16:20:48 <jcowan> It's hopeless.
16:21:03 <jcowan> Asimov's example about the German spy during WW II, e.g.
16:21:09 <sbp> reminds me of TimBL's explanation of RDF vs. XML
16:21:18 <sbp> I'll expand my reference if you expand yours :-)
16:21:28 <jcowan> Oooh, ooooh!
16:21:42 <jcowan> His first telegram reads "ATOM BOMB". This tells the Germans almost all they need to know.
16:21:51 <jcowan> The second 'gram reads "OAK RIDGE TENN". This tells them the rest.
16:22:16 <sbp> "Without looking at the schema, you know things about the document structure, but nothing else. You can't tell what to deduce. You don't know whether ppppp is a y of qqqqq, or qqqqq is a z of ppppp or what." - http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/RDF-XML
16:22:32 <sbp> all/the rest: heh
16:22:36 <jcowan> TimBL's raspberries.
16:22:45 <sbp> ppppppppp
16:22:54 <valmont> valmont has quit ()
16:23:03 <jcowan> Scared him off, I guess.
16:23:51 <sbp> he's probably just off to scav some shizzynit from the gutterfairies
16:24:04 <jcowan> It's a particularly nice touch that the Randomizer is open source.
16:24:11 <jcowan> That way you can trust that it doesn't covertly leak information.
16:24:16 <sbp> so he's not even... yeah
16:24:52 <jcowan> Of course, looking at the schema doesn't help either.
16:25:04 <sbp> Dan Connolly said something recently on #swig that made me chuckle: I can't remember what program he was trying to install, something zope-related though I think, and he said it was the first time in N years or something where he hadn't read through the source before installing
16:25:13 <jcowan> But then again, an RDF inferencer may know lots of facts about a URI, but it can't reflect on any of them.
16:25:14 <sbp> no, not the way that most people design them
16:25:19 <sbp> I used to go off about that a lot
16:25:26 <sbp> syntactic schemata vs. semantic
16:25:39 <sbp> EricP did some nice schema annotation stuff
16:25:40 <jcowan> "Content is fancy form." --Doug Hofstadter
16:26:07 <sbp> crschmidt: do you remember the DanC quote?
16:26:17 <crschmidt> * crschmidt reads backscroll.
16:26:21 <themaximus__> themaximus__ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
16:26:29 <sbp> only about ten lines
16:26:55 <themaximus__> themaximus__ (max@themaximus.user) has joined #swhack
16:27:38 <crschmidt> " but I have read at least parts of * the linux kernel * the X window system (though that was only the Xt libraries, which are only barely relevant these days. And motif. ew.) * emacs * mozilla (only small parts)" -- http://www.ilrt.bris.ac.uk/discovery/chatlogs/swig/2005-04-15.html#T18-37-48
16:27:53 <crschmidt> not sure exactly which part he was talking about: I think he said he didn't trust Wordpress because he hadn't read the source
16:28:15 <sbp> thanks
16:28:20 <sbp> yeah, Wordpress
16:28:24 <sbp> that's the one
16:28:26 <crschmidt> "I'm having a hard time trusting wordpress. I haven't read the code. I wonder if there are any apps that I trust that I haven't read the code."
16:28:42 <sbp> and that's the exact quote I was remembering
16:28:44 <sbp> awesome. thanks!
16:29:04 <jcowan> * jcowan doesn't trust DanC because he hasn't read *his* source.
16:29:16 <crschmidt> DanC keep his source in CVS, I think
16:29:48 <crschmidt> Not sure if he's public
16:30:02 <crschmidt> I'd be interested in checking out the "Meeting time arrangement" module
16:30:14 <crschmidt> He documented it on IRC at one point, in an effort to teach it to sbp
16:30:15 <crschmidt> ;)
16:30:26 <sbp> don't remind me
16:30:39 <sbp> nailbiting
16:30:47 <sbp> very useful though
16:30:47 <jcowan> DanC's source is presumably a pair of Connollys.
16:31:10 <jcowan> Anical's source is a pair of doxies.
16:31:10 <Anical> jcowan: okay.
16:31:16 <jcowan> Anical's source?
16:31:17 <Anical> jcowan: 's source is a pair of doxies.
16:31:20 <jcowan> Bah.
16:31:25 <sbp> chuckle
16:31:37 <j
