2005-06-03 Swhack IRC Log

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02:32:52 <Monty> hi kpreid, how ya doing?
02:32:54 <phenny> Monty: shh, don't let anyone know you're around!
02:32:55 <Monty> jeffarch
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03:08:47 <xover> «Eternally you shall clean up Other People's Grotty Code; baroque encrusted messes will be your lot for the ages to come.» — one of the more horrendous curses; after turning to pillars of salt or stone, and having a plague or two.
03:21:53 <xover> * xover NP: «It's A Long Way To The Top (If You Wanna Rock `N´ Roll)» from the album «High Voltage» by «AC/DC».
03:35:29 <deltab> I guess it would be a long way to the top if you have to lug amps and speakers with you
03:36:19 <xover> Well, presuming your individual peak is actually in front of you and at any significant altitude.
03:36:47 <xover> * xover NP: «Live Wire» from the album «High Voltage» by «AC/DC».
03:37:27 <deltab> * deltab notes an electricity theme
03:37:34 <xover> heh heh
03:38:13 <xover> Well, I don't think anyone's ever accused AC/DC if subtlety.
03:39:26 <xover> Oh my oh my, but people at `ork are going to be left with no doubt I've finally got a hold of «High Voltage» tomorrow...
03:40:09 <xover> ...he said, polishing his Harman/Kardon speaker set. :-)
03:54:22 <xover> [[[
03:54:22 <xover> Saw you in the front row movin' to the beat // Just movin' 'n' groovin'
03:54:22 <xover> Killed me when I saw… the wet patch on your seat // It wasn't Coca Cola...
03:54:22 <xover> Oh baby, I hope you liked the show
03:54:22 <xover> When the band said good night // I had to say hello!
03:54:23 <xover> ]]] -- “Little Lover”, AC/DC
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03:58:51 <xover> [[[
03:58:51 <xover> She's got style that woman // Makes me smile that woman
03:58:51 <xover> She's got spunk that woman // Funk that woman
03:58:51 <xover> She's got speed my baby // Got what I need my baby
03:58:51 <xover> She's got the ability // To make a man outta me
03:58:52 <xover> But most important of all // Let me tell ya
03:58:54 <xover> The lady's got balls // She's got balls
03:58:56 <xover> ]]] - «She's got balls», AC/DC
03:59:24 <xover> Ok, so rhyming «ability» with «man outta me» is a bit strained, but still... :-)
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04:03:10 <uche> oh dear
04:06:43 <xover> :-)
04:07:25 <xover> Not a big fan of AC/DC then? ;-)
04:10:08 <uche> I don't remember
04:10:15 <Ash> stab
04:10:16 <uche> But seeing the lyrics prolly didn't help
04:10:42 <uche> All I can think is: kindergarten articulate+teenage crude
04:11:12 <uche> But glad you're having fun :-)
04:11:18 <xover> heh heh
04:11:45 <xover> Yeah, “fun” is certainly the key word.
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04:24:32 <xover> Oh, Uche, if only you could hear this guitar riff you'd change your mind in a heartbeat! :-)
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04:47:20 <BigJibby> Monty, was'up?
04:47:22 <Monty> 'dev system changes a ton?
04:47:42 <BigJibby> Monty, does it?
04:47:44 <Monty> smacks first Koopa's filters :P
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06:35:13 <Monty> yo simonbc!
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07:46:58 <AaronSw> sometimes i hate my head
07:47:32 <adamhill> 'if your head offends thee.....'
07:57:50 <lonur> .w proficient
07:57:53 <phenny> proficient 1. having or showing knowledge and skill and aptitude; "adept in handicrafts"; "an adept juggler"; "an expert job"; "a good mechanic"; "a practiced marksman"; "a proficient engineer"; "a lesser-known but no less skillful composer"; "the effect was achieved by skillful retouching"
07:59:39 <AaronSw> Bat Boy: The Musical was really well cast.
07:59:47 <AaronSw> at least judging from the soundtrack
08:00:18 <AaronSw> Shelly is especially wonderful
08:00:24 <adamhill> they put that on here at the college, it was great
08:01:04 <AaronSw> what college is that>
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08:01:32 <adamhill> Colin County Community here in plano tx
08:01:54 <adamhill> they have a strangely cool theatre group
08:02:19 <adamhill> did Alien Voices a while back and lured one of the ST:TNG actors here
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08:03:42 <AaronSw> Brian Flemming: "We didn't create Bat Boy to piss anyone off, so it's a nice bonus."
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08:08:23 <AaronSw> man, i am totally going to fail this class
08:08:59 <AaronSw> 90% of the grade depends on me doing this homework assignment
08:09:11 <AaronSw> but whenever i think about doing it i just start hitting myself in the chest
08:09:50 <adamhill> sounds like you need some oxycontin to 'trust' your homework
08:10:01 <AaronSw> i thought it was oxytocin
08:10:46 <adamhill> stupid chemists
08:11:03 <adamhill> that gonna cause a mixup at the pharmacy
08:11:26 <AaronSw> yeah
08:11:32 <adamhill> a bunch of real estate agents end up getting an entire community hooked on painkillers
08:12:19 <AaronSw> it'd also be the source of a lot of rush limbaugh jokes
08:12:37 <adamhill> you read my input buffer
08:13:43 <lonur> AaronSw: your strength is web design. so this is like a side class. I think if you just put sometime and just get project done you'll be ok
08:20:55 <AaronSw> but all i want to do is sleep sleep sleep
08:21:16 <AaronSw> and this rustbucket of a computer isn't helping
08:28:20 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit ("life can be so hard sometimes")
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08:32:14 <lonur> then go get a good night's sleep. you'll feel better in the morning
08:32:46 <lonur> as for computer, can you use your venture capital to buy a new computer? work-related
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09:17:08 <lonur> .w proliferation
09:17:10 <phenny> proliferation 1. growth by the rapid multiplication of parts
09:17:14 <phenny> proliferation 2. a rapid increase in number (especially a rapid increase in the number of deadly weapons); "the proliferation of nuclear weapons"
09:20:18 <lonur> .w terabyte
09:20:21 <phenny> terabyte 1. a unit of information equal to a trillion (1,099,511,627,776) bytes or 1024 gigabytes
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13:06:23 <Morbus> phenny?
13:08:53 <jsled> P H E N N N N N Y Y Y Y !!!!!
13:17:53 <uche> .c DEGREE
13:18:01 <uche> phenny, help
13:18:04 <phenny> I'm datum's replacement, phenny. My commands include:
13:18:07 <phenny> cp, ety, g, gc, img, map, mw, pc, repres, seen, swhack, t, tell, thesaurus, val, w, xena
13:18:11 <phenny> For help: 'phenny: help command?' My owner is sbp.
13:18:13 <uche> .cp DEGREE
13:18:14 <phenny> Documentation: http://inamidst.com/phenny/
13:18:17 <phenny> 00B0: DEGREE SIGN (°)
13:18:20 <phenny> 2103: DEGREE CELSIUS (℃)
13:18:23 <phenny> 2109: DEGREE FAHRENHEIT (℉) [...]
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13:48:23 <crschmidt> Anical: google hosting offer
13:48:28 <Anical> crschmidt: Web Hosting by PowWeb - The Perfect Hosting Solution: http://powweb.com/
13:48:28 <Anical> ..Technical Ramblings » Hosting Offer: http://crschmidt.net/blog/archives/72/hosting-offer/
13:48:28 <Anical> ..FREE Hosting Offer: http://www.nettro.com.au/products_services/specialoffer.htm
13:51:08 <Morbus> * Morbus wonders if the wiki title change helped.
13:51:12 <Morbus> Anical: google ghyll
13:51:15 <Anical> Morbus: Holbeck Ghyll Country House Hotel, Windermere, English Lake ...: http://www.holbeckghyll.com/
13:51:15 <Anical> ..Ghyll Manor Country Hotel in West Sussex: http://www.ghyllmanor.co.uk/
13:51:15 <Anical> ..Main Page - Gamegrene - Ghyll: http://gamegrene.com/wiki/Main_Page
13:51:19 <Morbus> nope. bugger.
13:51:47 <Morbus> * Morbus is working on "Corpse birth" for his new Ghyll entry.
14:02:03 <jsled> Meh^WHeh. http://www.dieselsweeties.com/archive.php?s=1240
14:03:22 <Morbus> heh, heh
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14:19:34 <crschmidt> Okay, I have an XSLT stylesheet.
14:20:16 <crschmidt> It works fine, but I'd like to pull all the "goog" out
14:20:32 <crschmidt> However, when I change xmlns:goog to xmlns, and replace all the goog: in the document...
14:20:35 <crschmidt> it just doesn't work.
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14:20:55 <Monty> welcome, kpreid
14:20:58 <crschmidt> xsltproc doesn't complain about it, but it spits out variable values instead of XML
14:21:18 <uche> change xmlns:goog in the XSLT or in the source?
14:22:06 <crschmidt> in the XSLT
14:22:20 <crschmidt> Example source file is sitemap.xml
14:22:29 <kpreid> unwelcome, monty
14:22:31 <Monty> For help: 'phenny: help me....
14:22:33 <uche> Do you still have XPaths using "goog:"?
14:22:36 <jsled> Monty: bite me.
14:22:41 <Monty> busy coding and registered in currently doesn't seem to BRG, but disk io lagged
14:22:48 <uche> Sorry, I'm hoping to help without having to wade through code
14:22:56 <uche> limited time and all that
14:22:59 <crschmidt> uche: well, it's pretty short, but that's fine :)
14:23:02 <uche> K
14:23:04 <kpreid> Monty: when disk io failed, vorpal died
14:23:08 <Monty> http://db.cs.helsinki.fi/~mraento/lxr/source/ContextCommon/src/xml.cpp
14:23:20 <crschmidt> uche: Yeah, I pull all the goog: out of the xpaths
14:23:42 <crschmidt> and change xmlns:goog="urihere" to xmlns="urihere"
14:25:06 <crschmidt> That one is the one that doesn't work
14:25:29 <uche> The XSLT looks right
14:25:43 <uche> but you can;t just eliminage goog that way
14:26:02 <uche> exclude-result-prefixes="goog" won't do the trick
14:26:30 <uche> Once you use a literal <goog:*>, XSLT is forced to put in the prefix regardless
14:26:40 <uche> I think maybe you want namespace-alias?
14:27:27 <crschmidt> yeah, but I'm not using a literal goog:* anywhere
14:27:38 <uche> <xsl:if test="$cf != ''"><goog:cf><xsl:value-of select="$cf" /></goog:cf></xsl:if>
14:27:43 <uche> Of is that the wrong one?
14:27:59 <crschmidt> that's the wrong one
14:28:00 <uche> I see
14:28:04 <crschmidt> sorry about that
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14:28:22 <uche> whoa!
14:28:33 <uche> You eliminated the prefix from the XPath as well as the literal elements
14:28:33 <crschmidt> whoa? :/
14:28:39 <uche> So they no longer match the source doc
14:28:39 <crschmidt> yeah?
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14:28:53 <crschmidt> they should, shouldn't they? The default xmlns: is goog
14:28:57 <uche> No
14:29:16 <uche> XPath does *not* use the default prefix in the stylseheet for purposes of matching
14:29:19 <uche> XSLT FAQ :-)
14:29:24 <crschmidt> ah, gotcha
14:29:27 <crschmidt> Thanks :)
14:29:32 <crschmidt> that was kind of my guess
14:29:46 <crschmidt> but I am XSLT clueless.
14:30:13 <uche> Add in xmlns:goog="http://www.google.com/schemas/sitemap/0.84" *in addition*
14:30:27 <uche> Then use goog: only in the XPaths
14:30:33 <uche> And you should have just what you want
14:30:34 <crschmidt> yep, got it
14:30:47 <uche> Alternatively, use the first form of the XSLT you presented
14:31:00 <uche> And use xsl:namespace-alias to map the "goog" prefix to the default in output
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14:44:35 <crschmidt> Thanks, uche
14:44:52 <uche> np
14:54:22 <crschmidt> ^weblog uche
14:54:22 <julie> Query returned no results
14:54:46 <uche> ?
14:54:51 <uche> Oh
14:54:59 <uche> How do I add a node?
14:55:04 <uche> julie, help
14:55:04 <julie> I'm a Redland/Python based RDF query bot. Source in SVN at <http://crschmidt.net/svn/rdfpython/trunk/>. Commands are ^add <url>, which adds statements, ^newcommand <name> is <RDQL Query>, ^runcommand <commandname> <arguments> . ^commandlist lists current commands, ^commandlist <command> shows info on a command, ^part will have me part a channel, ^join <#chan> will have me join a channel. Talk to crschmidt for more.
14:55:25 <uche> ^add http://copia.ogbuji.net/blog/
14:55:25 <julie> Adding http://copia.ogbuji.net/blog/ to my database...
14:55:34 <julie> Adding that URL failed (XML error - http://copia.ogbuji.net/blog/:158: ).
14:55:46 <uche> It has to be RDF?
14:55:57 <crschmidt> Yep
14:56:04 <uche> I guess I have to use the paste bot
14:56:07 <uche> To hack in RDF?
14:56:12 <uche> If so, will have to wait :-)
14:56:58 <crschmidt> ^add http://planet.swhack.com/foafroll.xml
14:57:11 <crschmidt> * crschmidt pokes julie
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14:58:05 <crschmidt> ^add http://planet.swhack.com/foafroll.xml
14:58:05 <julie> Adding http://planet.swhack.com/foafroll.xml to my database...
14:58:13 <julie> Added 86 statements from http://planet.swhack.com/foafroll.xml. Model size is 2111478.
14:58:41 <crschmidt> ^weblog Uche and Chimezie Ogbuji
14:58:41 <julie> http://copia.ogbuji.net/blog/
14:58:53 <uche> Cool. Thanks
14:58:59 <uche> * uche needs to get his FOAF act together
14:59:35 <crschmidt> just remember never to make a file that says Uche Ogbuji's weblog is copia. You and Chimezie will become the same person if you do that ;)
15:00:20 <uche> A ha
15:00:22 <uche> Good point
15:00:35 <uche> Well, actually...
15:00:50 <uche> Is weblog an inverse functional property?
15:00:54 <crschmidt> yep
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15:01:02 <uche> If not, no engine should merge those entities
15:01:04 <crschmidt> ^allRelated http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/weblog
15:01:05 <julie> rdfs:isDefinedBy foaf:, rdf:type rdf:Property, rdf:type file:/home/danbri/cvs/w3.org/WWW/2000/10/swap/test/crawlSeeAlso#InterestingProperty, rdfs:comment A weblog of some thing (whether person, group, company etc.)., rdf:type owl:InverseFunctionalProperty, http://www.w3.org/2003/06/sw-vocab-status/ns#term_status testing, rdfs:subPropertyOf foaf:page, rdfs:domain foaf:Agent, rdfs:label weblog, rdfs:range foaf:Document, rdf:type http://www.daml.org
15:01:05 <julie> /2001/03/daml+oil#UnambiguousProperty
15:01:06 <uche> What?!!!!
15:01:09 <uche> That's silly
15:01:15 <uche> Is that the doping of the FOAFers?
15:01:44 <mattis__> mattis__ (~mattis@p54BD5DDE.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #swhack
15:01:44 <Monty> bah, it's mattis__ again
15:01:44 <libby> it's defined textually in an apporopriate wa`y, i.e. to not include multiblogs
15:01:47 <libby> * libby waves at uche :)
15:02:49 <crschmidt> If you have multiple people using the same blog, they are a foaf:Group, not a foaf:Person, with tthat weblog.
15:03:07 <uche> Libby!
15:03:11 <uche> Hey ho!
15:03:16 <uche> Still recovering? :-)
15:03:22 <libby> yeah ;)
15:03:26 <libby> you?
15:03:35 <uche> Just about
15:03:45 <uche> heh s/doping/doing
15:03:54 <uche> Where's John with his BLAMMO!?
15:04:09 <uche> Anyway, is there a FOAF solution for multiblogs?
15:04:23 <libby> chris had it, I think
15:04:29 <uche> How can I say Chimezie's Webblog is Copia *and* Uche's Weblog is COpia?
15:04:29 <JibberJim> foaf:Group
15:04:36 <uche> oh
15:04:38 <crschmidt> [a foaf:Group; foaf:weblog <copia>; foaf:member [a foaf:Person; foaf:name "Uche"]].
15:04:41 <uche> Ya'll are too fast for me
15:05:27 <uche> OK. I suppose I needn't worry about doing that for the planet.swhack case until I get around to putting up my own FOAF, and adding it to Julie :-)
15:06:04 <crschmidt> ^addturtle [a foaf:Group; foaf:weblog <http://copia.ogbuji.net/blog/>; foaf:member [a foaf:Person; foaf:name "Uche Ogbuji"]; foaf:member [a foaf:person; foaf:name "Chimezie Ogbuji"]].
15:06:05 <julie> Model size increased by 8 to 2111486 via turtle statements.
15:06:44 <crschmidt> ^q select select ?w where (?p foaf:name "Uche Ogbuji") (?g foaf:member ?p) (?g foaf:weblog ?w)
15:06:44 <julie> Bad query (syntax error, unexpected SELECT, expecting '?' or '*').
15:06:52 <crschmidt> ^q select ?w where (?p foaf:name "Uche Ogbuji") (?g foaf:member ?p) (?g foaf:weblog ?w)
15:06:52 <julie> http://copia.ogbuji.net/blog/
15:08:01 <uche> * uche squints at the queries
15:08:15 <uche> I think I understand
15:08:18 <uche> Cool. Thanks.
15:08:56 <crschmidt> ^q select ?w where { ?g foaf:weblog ?w; foaf:member ?p. ?p foaf:name "Uche Ogbuji". }
15:09:04 <crschmidt> ^q select ?w where (?p foaf:name "Uche Ogbuji") (?g foaf:member ?p) (?g foaf:weblog ?w)
15:09:07 <julie> http://copia.ogbuji.net/blog/
15:09:10 <crschmidt> agh
15:09:19 <crschmidt> ^q select ?w where { ?g foaf:weblog ?w; foaf:member ?p. ?p foaf:name "Uche Ogbuji". }
15:09:23 <crschmidt> if you prefer SPARQL
15:09:32 <crschmidt> oh man. that's going to take quite a while
15:09:38 <uche> teehee
15:10:55 <crschmidt> should have swapped the foaf:weblog and foaf:member bits
15:11:02 <crschmidt> would have speeded things up ridiculously
15:14:35 <uche> You think quickly in SQLish RDF query, I must say
15:14:50 <uche> Not me
15:15:02 <crschmidt> well, i've had a lot of practice
15:15:05 <crschmidt> ^commandlist
15:15:10 <crschmidt> oh right. querying.
15:15:26 <uche> She's off in logical la la land
15:15:32 <crschmidt> well, there's a lot of commands stored in there (75, 80) and I've had my hand in most of them at one point or another
15:16:29 <eikeon_> eikeon_ (~eikeon@gandalf.mindlab.umd.edu) has joined #swhack
15:16:29 <crschmidt> the reason this is taking so long, by the way, is that it's first finding all ?g which have a weblog ?w - and that includes every livejournal user, of which there are ~200,000 in the database
15:16:47 <mattis_> mattis_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:17:58 <julie> Current commands: allRelated, olb, like-pubs, maintainer, webpage, drankbeerwith, like-same-music-as, alldayevents, depiction, based_near, icbm-name, icbm, keywords, country-population, chair, kissed, todo, authorlinks, like-musicalwork, like-books, title, rsslinktitles, travel, country-background, languages, nick, workplace, commentContains, pub-address, schemaweb, desc, homepage, conferencePeople, available, country-lowestPoint, knows, dob-date
15:17:58 <julie> , quote, myersBriggs, school, wash, sha, ljinterests, xfn_met, members, country-highestPoint, rangeOf, term, made, name, neighborhoods, agentknows, rsstitles, like-musicians, places, domainOf, modified, picOfA, newdepiction, dob, weblog, contact, javaPlatform, biodob, mbox, dranklagerwith, namefromany, rsslinks,
15:17:58 <julie> http://copia.ogbuji.net/blog/
15:20:50 <crschmidt> ^q select ?w where { ?p foaf:name "Uche Ogbuji" . ?g foaf:member ?p;foaf:weblog ?w }
15:20:51 <julie> http://copia.ogbuji.net/blog/
15:21:14 <crschmidt> "Find uche. Then find the groups he's a member of, and return all their weblogs"
15:21:38 <crschmidt> That's really just turtle, using URIs instead of bnodes: note the similarity in syntax to the addturtle stuff above
15:26:42 <eikeon_> eikeon_ has quit ()
15:28:49 <eikeon_> eikeon_ (~eikeon@gandalf.mindlab.umd.edu) has joined #swhack
15:41:40 <deltab> can i be taught to rearrange parts of the query like that?
15:41:53 <deltab> moreover, can *it*? :-)
15:41:57 <Morbus> phenny, tell jcowan there's another new alpha of MW 1.5
15:42:00 <phenny> Morbus: I'll pass that on for you when jcowan is around.
15:42:09 <Morbus> phenny, tell jcowan http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?release_id=332229
15:42:12 <phenny> Morbus: I'll pass that on for you when jcowan is around.
15:42:16 <valmont> http://chrisholland.blogspot.com/2005/06/reintroducing-earthlink-search.html
15:42:37 <valmont> ;-*
15:43:20 <crschmidt> deltab: I've asked "can it" before, and been told that it already does.
15:43:31 <deltab> uh huh
15:43:36 <crschmidt> deltab: I haven't come up with a small scale demonstration of how it isn't :p
15:43:47 <crschmidt> And it's hard to say "well, I have a 600 mb database, you load it and try it"
15:43:48 <deltab> what about the above?
15:43:57 <deltab> ah
15:44:04 <libby> libby has quit (Remote closed the connection)
15:44:35 <deltab> because running it would be such a load, or because the database is big?
15:44:41 <deltab> hard to ship around
15:44:49 <crschmidt> cause the database is big, hard to ship around, and hard to debug against
15:45:02 <deltab> could one be generated?
15:45:12 <Cloud> Cloud has quit ("Leaving")
15:45:16 <crschmidt> * crschmidt shrugs. I really just need to come up with a smaller test case
15:46:00 <crschmidt> it may be that the newer query stuff is not supposed to do it now, or not expected to: I haven't asked the Redland maintainer for a while
15:46:58 <crschmidt> Regarding human power rewriting: rewrite so the largest returns are processed last. So, if you have a literal you're matching against, have it as early in the query as possible: { ?a foaf:name ?n; foaf:nick "crschmidt" } is much slower than { ?a foaf:nick "crschmidt"; foaf:name ?n }
15:47:35 <deltab> yeah, I mistyped :-)
15:47:46 <crschmidt> heh, heh
15:48:00 <crschmidt> regex matching is extremely slow because it must load all matching literals first, then regexes over them afterwards
15:50:17 <deltab> is it possible to quickly determine roughly how many results a simple query would have?
15:50:46 <crschmidt> Not without performing it, no
15:51:03 <crschmidt> At least, not at the application level: I have no clue at the library level, but I don't think so
15:51:29 <jcowan> jcowan (~jcowan@a7cebc03.cst.lightpath.net) has joined #swhack
15:51:52 <crschmidt> Howdy, jcowan.
15:52:01 <deltab> jcowan: there's a message for you
15:52:49 <jcowan> deltab: where?
15:52:51 <phenny> jcowan: 15:41Z <Morbus> tell jcowan there's another new alpha of MW 1.5
15:52:53 <jcowan> Ho, crschmidt
15:52:54 <phenny> jcowan: 15:42Z <Morbus> tell jcowan http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?release_id=332229
15:53:08 <deltab> there
15:54:19 <crschmidt> deltab: The data is all stored in MySQL, and there is a query rewriter from RDQL/SPARQL to MySQL, which makes the whole thing much much much faster - but that isn't built into the library, because most of the storages don't have SQL-like queries
15:54:50 <jcowan> Ah, thanks.
15:54:54 <jcowan> Ittywhonk, fwiw.
15:55:03 <crschmidt> As a result, each redland query generates thousands of queries to the MySQL backend.
15:55:17 <jcowan> Gagworthy.
15:55:30 <sbp> jcowan! tramopoline!
15:55:37 <crschmidt> Well, at least it doesn't create a new connection for each query anymore like it did until 1.0.1
15:56:09 <sbp> looking at https://www.google.com/webmasters/sitemaps/stats
15:56:18 <sbp> but links from it appear to be borken
15:56:33 <sbp> "502 Server Error"
15:56:56 <sbp> shouldn't they be using 500? hmm
15:56:56 <crschmidt> 502 is an error from an upstream proxy, right?
15:57:03 <sbp> yeah. bad gateway
15:57:30 <Morbus> hey sbp
15:57:33 <sbp> Morbus!
15:58:15 <sbp> you should get disobey.xxx
15:58:17 <Morbus> HOW AR YOUY.
15:58:19 <Morbus> heh.
15:58:31 <Morbus> and it'd be all needlepoint photos.
15:58:33 <sbp> IAR TEH FIEN THXTHXTJHX. J00?
15:58:37 <sbp> needlepoint?
15:58:41 <Morbus> yeah.
15:58:49 <Morbus> disobey porn, serve needlepoint!
15:59:05 <sbp> ah, I see. embroidery
15:59:10 <sbp> never heard it called that before
15:59:17 <sbp> now, needlepoint of porn would be the best
15:59:42 <sbp> .xxx is the porn, disobey is the needlepoint
16:00:27 <Morbus> http://www.3dchat.org/
16:00:30 <Morbus> we should create ghyll
16:00:52 <nsh> nsh (tourful@nsh.wikipedia) has joined #swhack
16:00:54 <sbp> crumbs: "England strike bowler Steve Harmison took five wickets for 38"
16:01:04 <sbp> create Ghyll in 3D chat? heh, heh
16:01:17 <Morbus> :)
16:01:23 <Morbus> i suck at all the programs they accept input from.
16:01:29 <Morbus> where suck is define as "DELETE!"
16:01:36 <sbp> "be creative in many ways"
16:02:21 <Morbus> * Morbus has been going through freshmeats game/entertainment section all morning.
16:02:31 <Morbus> i found a full fledged choose your own adventure language.
16:02:33 <Morbus> in xml.
16:02:44 <Morbus> i'm thinking about taking their php parser and hooking it into gamegrene/drupao.
16:02:45 <Morbus> drupal.
16:06:01 <deltab> something that parses php? or a parser written in php? either is too scary to imagine
16:06:17 <crschmidt> a parser written in PHP, I'd assume
16:12:53 <Morbus> how do i open .jnlp java webstart files on fedora core 3?
16:12:55 <phenny> Morbus: 16:08Z <DrBacchus> tell Morbus Bah.
16:13:02 <Morbus> is looking into http://arianne.sourceforge.net/?arianne_url=games/game_stendhal
16:13:06 <Morbus> which looks really good.
16:16:11 <Morbus> ah. fc3 seems t ohave broken webstart.
16:21:00 <Morbus> bah. now it requires 1.5.
16:25:34 <crschmidt> sbp: https://www.google.com/webmasters/sitemaps/stats is a 502 now too, so looks like something broke.
16:25:50 <sbp> ah
16:26:41 <nsh> nsh has quit ("back later")
16:27:44 <sbp> crschmidt: seems back... ish
16:28:11 <crschmidt> not here
16:30:06 <sbp> * sbp gets to work on sitemapper.py...
16:30:24 <jcowan> sbp: why "trampoline" (or "tramopoline", for that matter)?
16:30:54 <sbp> tramopoline [sic] because that's one of the things that Homer says when he gets overexcited about there being a free trampoline in the paper
16:31:07 <jcowan> Ah.
16:31:16 <jcowan> * jcowan never became a Simposons addict
16:31:29 <sbp> (because I originally typed jocwan in my excitement)
16:33:20 <redmonk> Morbus: hey
16:34:42 <jcowan> * jcowan is reading the WP article on Consensus decision-making.
16:35:46 <_jeannielap> _jeannielap has quit (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
16:35:54 <sbp> their escapes list is weird
16:36:06 <redmonk> phenny: tell morbus /msg me
16:36:08 <phenny> redmonk: I'll pass that on for you when morbus is around.
16:36:24 <sbp> you only need to escape < and & in text; <, &, '/" in attributes
16:38:57 <jcowan> How does one properly address the Lord Privy Seal, /me wonders?
16:40:20 <jcowan> And is SKOS a fine application of RDF for the masses (at least the inertial ones), or is it a parodic/demonic betrayal of all that the SW is supposed to stand for?
16:40:36 <crschmidt> Depends who you ask.
16:40:54 <uche> Norm likes it, which is what interested me in the first place
16:41:04 <sbp> Arnia very much dislikes the implementation
16:41:06 <crschmidt> Arnia will tell you that skos is an abuse of knowledge maps, far too simple for the concept maps that it is trying to describe, and OWL should be used in its place.
16:41:09 <sbp> but probably not the concept
16:41:10 <crschmidt> Or something like that.
16:41:14 <sbp> yes
16:41:34 <raxor> raxor (~chatzilla@68-65-87-196.snbrca.adelphia.net) has joined #swhack
16:42:03 <sbp> jcowan: any way as long as you don't say "Lord", "Privy", or "Seal"
16:42:16 <crschmidt> People who helped to develop it feel that its use can be useful in limited contexts, where more precision is not needed. Or something like that
16:42:16 <raxor> sbp!
16:42:21 <sbp> yo raxor
16:42:22 <raxor> crschmidt!
16:42:28 <crschmidt> raxor$
16:42:29 <jcowan> I understand that HRH intensely dislikes being addressed as "Wales".
16:42:46 <raxor> jcowan!
16:42:53 <jcowan> rax0r!
16:47:36 <sbp> didn't know that
16:48:05 <sbp> argh, they call elements tags all the way through
16:48:12 <JibberJim> I know lots of girls like that jcowan
16:48:39 <raxor> JibberJim, what is the quality of John Courage beer?
16:49:06 <JibberJim> I dunno, I think lager
16:50:10 <jcowan> JibberJim: Maybe so, but none of them is Prince of Wales.
16:52:56 <uche> Is RDFPic still alive?
16:52:58 <jcowan> This is my second day of operation under Cygwin alone without Linux on VMware.
16:53:05 <uche> DOesn't seem so: http://jigsaw.w3.org/rdfpic/
16:53:18 <uche> * uche is navigating the waters of image collection annotation
16:53:19 <jcowan> sbp: have you gotten "cron" to work? I did cygrunsrv and then started the service, but the events aren't firing properly.
16:53:55 <sbp> never used it in cygwin, actually
16:53:57 <crschmidt> uche: best available image annotation resources are done by masahide
16:53:57 <jcowan> * jcowan solves that problem by keeping his images as photographic prints in envelopes. When they become unviewable or he forgets the people in them, he discards them.
16:54:03 <crschmidt> .g masahide
16:54:05 <phenny> masahide: http://www.poetry-chaikhana.com/M/Masahide/Barnsburntdo.htm
16:54:10 <sbp> I did have a weird registration problem with cygrunsrv
16:54:15 <uche> * uche is faster than phenny :-)
16:54:17 <jsled> raxor: John Courage is a reasonable ale with a distinctive taste.
16:54:19 <sbp> but I think that's due to having installed one cygwin over the top of another
16:54:22 <jsled> I recall it being rather blunnt.
16:54:25 <jsled> er... blunt.
16:54:27 <jcowan> It's working fine with xinetd and sshd.
16:54:32 <Ash> on windows, I usually run a little cron binary I found somewhere
16:54:56 <schepers> schepers (schepers@cpe-066-057-015-168.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #swhack
16:54:56 <Monty> lo schepers
16:55:05 <Ash> Monty: 23oirw s8u8 jiwerjlss
16:55:07 <Monty> re servadmin resells sitegenie afaict
16:55:07 <Ash> Monty: 23oirw s8u8 jiwerjlss
16:55:08 <Monty> Does talking about this bother you ?
16:55:09 <Ash> Monty: 23oirw s8u8 jiwerjlss
16:55:10 <Monty> yummy
16:56:55 <uche> all I've found re: masahide is a tool that assumes the pic is on Flickr
16:57:02 <uche> But it's a good starting point, ta
16:57:24 <crschmidt> ^todo crschmidt
16:57:25 <julie> crschmidt poke masahide about getting code for flickr2rdf, exif2rdf so that I stop abusing his web services 2005-05-13T02:19:51Z, crschmidt add memcached support 2005-05-16T20:29:34Z, crschmidt Read through http://rdfweb.org/2002/01/photo/, revamp for current state. Include information on http://www.kanzaki.com/docs/sw/img-annotator.html , flickr2rdf, both of which are much more 'state of the art'. Finish up http://crschmidt.net/semweb/depiction/
16:57:25 <julie> and include that as well. 2005-04-06T16:27:14Z, crschmidt document built ins. 2005-04-05T20:17:56Z, crschmidt document builtins 2005-04-06T13:11:20Z, crschmidt flickrup.py 2005-04-29T10:41:43Z, crschmidt Add support in julie for decrypting FOAF files based on a wot:encryptedTo 2005-04-11T11:33:13Z
16:57:34 <crschmidt> sw/img-annotator.html
16:59:05 <uche> heh "crschmidt poke masahide about getting code for flickr2rdf, exif2rdf so that I stop abusing his web services "
16:59:13 <crschmidt> oops, did that one
16:59:38 <crschmidt> ^q select ?n where (?n todo:text "poke masahide about getting code for flickr2rdf, exif2rdf so that I stop abusing his web services")
16:59:39 <julie> (r1115937480r2)
16:59:46 <crschmidt> ^deleteNode r1115937480r2
16:59:47 <julie> Model size decreased by 4 to 2111482 by removing r1115937480r2 data.
17:00:24 <crschmidt> ^q select ?n where (?n todo:text "document built ins.")
17:00:24 <julie> (r1114530965r138644)
17:00:34 <crschmidt> ^deleteNode r1114530965r138644
17:00:34 <julie> Model size decreased by 4 to 2111478 by removing r1114530965r138644 data.
17:00:41 <uche> http://llimllib.f2o.org/blog/serve/entry/exif_sucks.html was not encouraging
17:00:47 <uche> But now I have a bit more hope
17:01:02 <uche> I worry that it may involve more code/hacking than I have time for now, tho :-(
17:01:07 <crschmidt> I really just use flickr
17:01:13 <crschmidt> and use tools to pull from their API
17:01:18 <uche> I didn't buy a payware acct
17:01:25 <uche> I guess I should
17:01:58 <crschmidt> I store the data externally to files
17:02:03 <crschmidt> so exif_sucks.html doesn't apply to me
17:03:25 <kpreid> .gc "fresh err"
17:03:28 <phenny> "fresh err": 146
17:03:49 <kpreid> hmm
17:03:53 <kpreid> not what I had in mind
17:05:17 <crschmidt> jhead -ci file.xml image.jpg only seems to include the first X bytes, where X is some number smaller than what I need
17:05:33 <raxor> thanks jsled
17:05:45 <crschmidt> anyway, going to grab lunch, bbiab
17:06:17 <raxor> does anyone here use picasa2?
17:07:23 <raxor> Doesn't allow you to identify regions for foaf:depicts, but does let you add in exif keywords and categories and descriptions...
17:07:38 <JibberJim> JibberJim has quit ("dIRC IRC Client - www.dragonmount.net/dirc/")
17:11:48 <raxor> ^dob-date 06-03
17:12:25 <julie> sellingmemories, padfootsgoddess, manicnymph, cathexis, froboz, bad_dolly
17:12:40 <raxor> ^dob-date 1984-06-03
17:12:41 <julie> Query returned no results
17:12:46 <raxor> ^dob-date 1984-06-02
17:12:47 <julie> Query returned no results
17:12:53 <raxor> ^dob-date 1984-06-04
17:12:54 <julie> Query returned no results
17:13:05 <raxor> ^thanks
17:13:09 <sbp> Josephine Baker
17:13:19 <Ash> ^stab
17:13:32 <jcowan> * jcowan stabs Ash again, since it didn't seem to work last time.
17:13:32 <raxor> ^icbm ash
17:13:33 <julie> Query returned no results
17:13:33 <sbp> Tony Curtis, Allen Ginsberg
17:13:36 <uche> * uche is missing the "stab" inside joke
17:13:57 <sbp> Suzi Quatro, Curtis Mayfield
17:14:59 <sbp> know anyone born today, raxor?
17:15:14 <jcowan> * jcowan doesn't get it either, uche
17:15:32 <raxor> froboz
17:15:48 <raxor> Allen Ginsberg's best line ever was "Will we walk all night through solitary streets? The trees add shade to shade, lights out in the houses, we'll both be lonely."
17:16:22 <jcowan> * jcowan enjoys howling _Howl_ for an audience on occasion
17:16:31 <raxor> I try to check for to see if Julie knows anyone turning 21 every day...
17:16:31 <uche> * uche cringes
17:17:14 <sbp> still can't believe you missed my 21st, raxor
17:17:25 <raxor> when was that?
17:17:34 <sbp> years ago, but still
17:17:56 <raxor> what's hard to comprehend is how I missed my own
17:18:05 <sbp> hehe
17:18:35 <jcowan> * jcowan can't remember his 21st specifically, as it had no particular significance to him.
17:19:19 <raxor> I wish there was a command .ety-fight significance specificness
17:20:42 <sbp> .ety-fight? find the oldest?
17:21:02 <raxor> hmmm, yeah maybe that is what I was thinking
17:21:06 <jcowan> "But after all, what is the signigifance of it all?"
17:21:14 <raxor> see if one spawned the other
17:22:09 <raxor> .ety significance
17:22:12 <phenny> significance: no etymology found
17:22:15 <raxor> .ety specificness
17:22:18 <phenny> specificness: no etymology found
17:22:36 <sbp> specificity
17:23:11 <sbp> so specificness is bound to the be neologism
17:23:21 <jcowan> raxor: the root concepts mean "follow" and "observe" respectively, and there is no discernible connection as far back as Proto-Indo-European
17:23:46 <raxor> Interesting...
17:24:18 <jcowan> Uche, why cringe?
17:24:41 <uche> Howl
17:24:45 <uche> Drives me up the wall
17:25:28 <sbp> (implied subtext: the thought of you doing it, doubly)
17:25:35 <raxor> uche, have you ever read the Robert Frost quote that goes something like, "Writing free verse is like playing tennis with the net down"?
17:26:13 <Anical> At 8/354/16878 9:07am THAT traded at 0.00
17:26:14 <Morbus> * Morbus returns.
17:26:16 <phenny> Morbus: 16:36Z <redmonk> tell Morbus /msg me
17:26:52 <Morbus> quote that?
17:27:00 <crschmidt> quote lu
17:27:02 <Morbus> quote that
17:27:13 <uche> raxor, yeah
17:27:17 <Anical> At 11/353/16841 5:07pm THAT traded at 0.00
17:27:27 <uche> it's never too far away in form versus free debates
17:27:39 <uche> I don't think it's helpful, even though I prefer form to free
17:27:59 <uche> (I don't call myself a formalist, tho, coz I like and write some free verse)
17:28:40 <uche> * uche finds form vs free debates deeply wearying
17:29:35 <uche> It was a rainy night
17:29:43 <uche> We took a taxi to your mother's home
17:29:51 <uche> She went to Flooorida
17:29:57 <sbp> So we stole her gnome
17:29:59 <uche> And left you with your father's gun, alone
17:30:10 <uche> Upon he small white bed
17:30:12 <sbp> I prefer mine
17:30:15 <uche> I fell intoooooo a dream
17:30:26 <uche> We sat up all the night and you watched me...
17:30:34 <uche> Just to see, who in the world I might be
17:30:40 <uche> --Joni Mitchell
17:31:02 <sbp> I'd better:
17:31:08 <sbp> a) listen to more Joni
17:31:11 <sbp> b) take that back
17:31:27 <uche> hehe
17:31:31 <uche> Uh oh!
17:31:44 <uche> * uche ducks: "INCOMING"
17:32:12 <uche> Huh? No "blammo"s?
17:32:23 <sbp> caught jcowan napping
17:32:29 <uche> phew
17:34:23 <deltab> Morbus: javaws?
17:35:14 <Morbus> deltab: not anymore. i'll just wait til i'm on the mac.
17:35:31 <jcowan> Just made a bizarre typo: "aspects" for "outcasts". Go figure.
17:35:33 <Morbus> my primary text editor on this fc3 machine is java, same with my outliner, and I don't want to fool around with jre versions on a friday.
17:36:21 <jcowan> The form of a poem is that which is needed to precisely express the content of the poem. --Northrop Frye, somewhat reworded.
17:36:23 <raxor> jcowan: one deals with separation of concerns, the other deals with those separate from concern
17:36:32 <jcowan> raxor: very sharp!
17:36:52 <sbp> wow
17:37:19 <deltab> /usr/java/j2re1.4.2_08/javaws/javaws seems to work for me
17:37:48 <Morbus> deltab: needs to be 1.5
17:38:04 <deltab> ah
17:39:23 <Morbus> there are testing rpms for 1.5 i've found.
17:39:26 <Morbus> but, its just to test that game.
17:39:31 <Morbus> and i know i can just doubleclick at home on os x.
17:39:34 <Morbus> so, no worries
17:41:38 <Morbus> jcowan: new lexicon uses our faq: http://www.innocence.com/games/taci/Main/LexiconFAQ
17:43:40 <Morbus> sending an email about use of CC.
17:51:54 <jcowan> Morbus: cool. Just wrote Careers article: a Folktown Records response to yet another Morphous Ibb query.
17:52:15 <Morbus> jcowan: cc'd you on the email re: FAQ/CC
17:52:25 <crschmidt> Hm, Planet is stripping style attributes.
17:53:05 <Morbus> nice, you phantom'd Ibb.
17:53:06 <Morbus> Rock.
17:53:17 <Morbus> jcowan: I'm working on "Corpse births" for mine.
17:53:22 <Morbus> its coming along slow. heavily distracted today.
17:53:46 <jcowan> EEeeeewww.
17:53:56 <Morbus> heh, heh.
17:54:01 <jcowan> blammo, blammo
17:54:05 <sbp> nah, come on
17:54:08 <Morbus> what i have so far:
17:54:08 <Morbus> [[[
17:54:09 <sbp> it's a jolly holiday with Morbus
17:54:10 <Morbus> A '''corpse birth''' is not a very pleasant experience for anyone involved. The father gone, estranged, or uncaring, the mother dead, the friends missing, and the newborn hatchling greeted into his first life by the still and cold body of his mother nearby. With no concept of right, wrong or maybe, natural instinct kicks in: the mother's corpse becomes both a plaything and a first meal.
17:54:14 <Morbus> It takes a few days before the hatchling struggles from the [[nesting|nest]] to look for further sustenance. Still unsure of why the world is a lonely place, parts of the nest, or the mother's body, are often clutched tightly as the young heads out on his first journey. In the case of body parts, this is, as suggested, an entirely unpleasant experience for those nearby.
17:54:15 <Morbus> ]]]
17:54:28 <jcowan> Sounds about right.
17:54:40 <sbp> NOT A JOLLY HOLIDAY THOUGH, IS IT MORBUS?!
17:54:44 <Morbus> :)
17:54:58 <Morbus> jcowan: i did have a question.
17:55:10 <Morbus> we don't actually mention /eggs/ in Nesting, I believe.
17:55:12 <Morbus> only "hatchlings".
17:55:21 <Morbus> were you envisioning a bird's nest equivalent?
17:55:40 <Morbus> aren't there some bugs that carry the eggs on their backs?
17:55:45 <Morbus> or with them, somehow, etc.
17:55:56 <Morbus> which would seem to remove the need for a proper nesting ritual.
17:56:06 <jcowan> Yeah, I was figuring on a bird-style nest.
17:56:13 <Morbus> alright. good. smae here.
17:56:20 <jcowan> Ghyllians also have bird-style shit, even though they are bugs.
17:56:30 <Morbus> i seem to recall that, yeah.
17:56:39 <jcowan> see Splak
17:57:25 <jcowan> Ghyllian reproduction article is consistent with egglaying but doesn't demand it.
17:57:57 <jcowan> Nesting speaks of hatching, which strongly implies eggs.
17:58:28 <Morbus> yeah, which was my assumption.
17:58:52 <Morbus> funnily, i don't mention an egg in my entry either.
17:59:10 <raxor> .w hatch
17:59:16 <phenny> hatch 1. the production of young from an egg
17:59:19 <phenny> hatch 2. shading consisting of multiple crossing lines
17:59:23 <phenny> hatch 3. a movable barrier covering a hatchway [...]
17:59:54 <Morbus> jcowan: any comments on that email?
18:00:01 <Morbus> i'm planning to send a few similar ones out there.
18:00:07 <raxor> hatching2: could describe some process of covering the young with a straw mesh of some sort... hence "hatching" them in
18:00:16 <Morbus> the format of ghyll has spawned a number of copycat intros.
18:03:50 <jcowan> Morbus: no sign of the email here. You used cowan@ccil.org?
18:04:07 <Morbus> hrm.
18:04:08 <Morbus> jcowan@.
18:04:16 <Morbus> i think i screwed that up another time I sent to you.
18:04:20 <Morbus> a week or so ago.
18:04:35 <Morbus> resent.
18:05:26 <jcowan> Yeah, it's kind of annoying: I'm cowan on one system and jcowan on the other.
18:05:47 <jcowan> Also johnwcowan, john.cowan, and on blogger.com I'm johnwoldemarcowan in full.
18:06:09 <jcowan> * jcowan might as well change his name to Morphous Ibb and have done with it.
18:06:14 <Morbus> :)
18:06:23 <Morbus> ooh, if I dib that entry, I could out you.
18:06:32 <Morbus> jcowan was just a pseudonymm.
18:07:16 <jcowan> * jcowan wonders if he hit the agony-uncle tone right.
18:07:23 <Morbus> i haven't read it yt.
18:07:30 <Morbus> just saw that you phantom'd him.
18:07:33 <jcowan> Morbus: are you suggesting that Morphous wrote the answer to his own question?
18:07:37 <jcowan> Oh.
18:07:42 <Morbus> i don't really get a chance to read the entries until I edit them.
18:07:47 <Morbus> and i don't get a chance to do that until modnay.
18:08:11 <Morbus> jcowan: to throw us off his trail.
18:08:21 <Morbus> your trail, i mean.
18:08:37 <sbp> this 10MB limit is kinda weird
18:08:54 <jcowan> Which limit?
18:09:00 <sbp> on Google Sitemaps
18:09:40 <jcowan> Ah.
18:09:57 <jcowan> Morbus: the email sounds fine, and hits the right tone of firmness.
18:10:45 <sbp> aw, I didn't get it
18:10:47 <jcowan> Whoever writes the Morphous article has a hard problem: explaining why a nearly-nine-year-old deserves his own article already.
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18:11:11 <sbp> one can do a lot in nine years
18:11:23 <jcowan> True.
18:11:32 <Morbus> jcowan: naah. this is before scholarly pursuits were professionalized! there's nothing in place to determine whether something should, or should not, be written :)
18:11:34 <raxor> Didn't Mozart have his first symphony at nine?
18:11:37 <jcowan> Google helpfully says: "Did you mean Morpheus Ibb?"
18:11:38 <Anical> No results for 'helpfully says: "Did you mean Morpheus Ibb?"'.
18:11:47 <jcowan> Anical: stuff it.
18:11:48 <Anical> jcowan: Dunno.
18:12:58 <jsled> sbp: yeah, it is. "prevent you from overloading your sever" my ass.
18:13:22 <jsled> server, too.
18:13:47 <Morbus> jcowan: got a response back saying "thanks for the reminder".
18:13:49 <jcowan> uche: 'hehe' usually does not provoke a blammo, as the 'heh' in it is merely mentioned, not used.
18:13:56 <Morbus> so i'm assuming he'll revie it soon, but server seems to be down at the moment.
18:14:11 <jcowan> Morbus: Ah. In that case sending FY2Y2 is probably over the top.
18:14:26 <raxor> Chopin made his debut in Vienna at age nine
18:14:37 <Morbus> FY2Y2?
18:15:29 <jcowan> "F*** you to you too", my generic response to generic autogenerated responses to my heartfelt emails.
18:16:35 <jcowan> raxor: Fair enough, but would he have deserved an article if he hadn't grown up to be Chopin?
18:17:02 <sbp> ah, you can have multiple sitemaps
18:17:06 <deltab> it's traditionally about that age when Jedi knights and Slayers begin their training, right?
18:17:40 <deltab> * deltab wonders if 'knights' belongs in that sentence
18:17:48 <jcowan> Again: would you write an article about one such trainee if you didn't know he'd grow up to be Darth Vader? Nobody knows what Morphous will become, least of all Morphous.
18:17:51 <raxor> jcowan: good point...
18:18:01 <Morbus> jcowan: ah.
18:18:11 <Morbus> jcowan: well, the next step was to sign up and edit the page myself.
18:18:18 <Morbus> but, that could be considered rude.
18:18:31 <deltab> maybe Morphous Ibb writes it
18:20:07 <sbp> perhaps it can be extracts from the boyhood diary of Morphous Ibb
18:20:17 <sbp> showing his childish perspective on the large events of Ghyll
18:20:48 <sbp> a playful summary of the previous few years, back to -3EC
18:20:57 <Morbus> ohmygod, ghyll has blogs!
18:21:02 <sbp> heh, heh
18:21:05 <Morbus> only, theyy're called blugs.
18:21:10 <sbp> blazzAMoomo!
18:21:28 <sbp> blyggs
18:21:32 <sbp> hmm. bllygs
18:21:44 <Morbus> that's been bugging me recently.
18:21:46 <sbp> bllhygs!
18:21:48 <Morbus> the use of "Ghyllians".
18:21:48 <deltab> billgs
18:21:51 <Morbus> or "the Ghyll people".
18:21:56 <sbp> er, bllyhgs even
18:21:58 <jcowan> Morbus: No worse than "Americans".
18:22:00 <Morbus> It bugs me because so rarely do we say "humans"
18:22:11 <sbp> People of Earth
18:22:14 <Morbus> right, that too.
18:22:20 <sbp> we People of Earth are an interesting bunch
18:22:21 <jcowan> We don't have any contrast.
18:22:27 <Morbus> I ate a sandwich, as People of Earth, often do.
18:22:28 <sbp> neither do they, surely?
18:22:32 <jcowan> Perhaps the term "Ghyllian" became popular when the Xurientals were discovered.
18:22:44 <Morbus> yeah, that kinda hooks into the "ghyll proper" bit.
18:22:47 <sbp> ah. in O terms
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18:23:36 <jcowan> In Sawyer's Neanderthal trilogy ....
18:23:38 <jcowan> (spoiler alert!)
18:24:07 <Morbus> OH NOE.
18:24:09 <Morbus> Morbus has left #swhack
18:24:10 <jcowan> the Neanderthal term "Gliksin" is occasionally applied by us to ourselves in contrast with Neanderthals.
18:24:15 <Morbus> Morbus (~morbus@morbus.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack
18:24:21 <Morbus> CAN I OPEN MY EYES NOW?!
18:24:26 <jcowan> Yes.
18:24:30 <Morbus> phew!
18:24:39 <jcowan> The alert was just another drill, as it turned out.
18:24:47 <Morbus> WHA THE...
18:24:49 <Morbus> DUDE!
18:24:59 <Morbus> I JUST GOT TO THE CHAPTER ENTITLED "ALL SYSTEMS ALERT!"
18:25:01 <Morbus> THANKS FOR RUINING IT.
18:25:15 <Morbus> * Morbus sulks.
18:25:18 <jcowan> Morbus, Morbus, pants on fire....
18:25:39 <Morbus> not hanging anywhere cos cels have no wire
18:25:54 <jcowan> "Nay, nay, thou'lt not be suspended."
18:26:21 <Morbus> A "corpse birth", which describes both the process and the living result, is not immediately accepted into a local community, largely because of the way he smells. Without the nurturing of his parents, without that "handling", the gut reaction is that he just isn't "one of us".
18:26:26 <Morbus> weird.
18:26:41 <Morbus> i'm trying to get the "parents won't accept the baby bird if timmy touches it" thing.
18:27:20 <jcowan> Yeah.
18:27:24 <jcowan> Sounds good.
18:27:48 <jcowan> I'm very fond of my line "retiring to an underground sanctum sanctorum to work with stinks or fizzles".
18:27:51 <Morbus> It is only after receiving [[Dendel's Stripes]] that one is visually acceptable, even if his smell still affronts.
18:28:02 <Morbus> dendel's stripes was a status quo thing from a B turn.
18:28:11 <jcowan> The Copy Editor will root out all such one-he crossreferences.
18:28:18 <Morbus> and i'm thinking it could be like the ID tagging of an animal by scientists.
18:28:32 <Morbus> or, just skunk like stripes, or the yellow/black registered mutie stripes of PARANOIA.
18:28:36 <deltab> or tribal markings?
18:28:44 <Morbus> well, he doesn't really have a tribe.
18:28:59 <deltab> without the 'tribal'
18:29:05 <Morbus> it's not an acceptance thing - more of a "we know you're not one of us, but at least we KNOW you're not one of us"
18:29:09 <jcowan> And it can't be that Morphous is famous because of the family he belongs to, for the Ibbs are quite ordinary.
18:29:20 <Morbus> the difference between "our hobos" and "who the fuck is that guy who just got off the train?"
18:29:49 <Morbus> although...
18:29:54 <Morbus> the stripes could be chitonous modifications.
18:29:57 <Morbus> like Jcowan's Badges.
18:30:02 <Morbus> that's a good idea.
18:30:02 <deltab> jcowan: maybe they won an award for being the most ordinary, like the Applegates
18:30:49 <Morbus> ooh, someone else just used the image upload feature.
18:31:03 <jcowan> [[[
18:31:04 <jcowan> "Let me tell you a story. When I was a young man about to go out into the world, my father says to me a very valuable thing. 'Son,' the old guy says, 'I'm sorry that I am not able to bankroll you a very large start. But not having any potatoes to give you, I am going to give you some very valuable advice. One of these days in your travels, you are going to come across a guy with a nice brand new deck of cards, and this guy is going to offer
18:31:04 <jcowan> to bet you that he can make the Jack of Spades jump out of the deck and squirt cider in your ear. But, son, do not take this bet, for if you do, as sure as you are standing there, you are going to end up with an ear full of cider.' "
18:31:05 <jcowan> ]]]
18:31:08 <jcowan> --Damon Runyon
18:32:39 <Morbus> man, i hate pngs.
18:32:42 <Morbus> they never resize cleanly
18:32:45 <deltab> the stripes might depends on a foodstuff that the parents collect
18:32:58 <Morbus> huh.
18:33:05 <Morbus> you can't rename an Image either.
18:33:07 <Morbus> that's annoying.
18:34:34 <jcowan> New feature in 1.5alpha, according to that list you pointed me to.
18:35:12 <Morbus> ah.
18:35:22 <Morbus> i looked at that list for "rewrote misspellings"
18:35:26 <Morbus> mentally skipped everthing else.
18:35:31 <sbp> PNGs don't resize cleanly?
18:35:37 <sbp> that's a function of the software you use to resize them
18:35:40 <sbp> not of PNGs
18:35:54 <Morbus> sbp: well, both Mozilla, and/or his software, made it ugly.
18:35:59 <Morbus> http://gamegrene.com/wiki/?title=Image:Sm-smallwood.png&rcid=2993
18:36:10 <Morbus> http://gamegrene.com/wiki/?title=Image:Smallwood.png&rcid=2991
18:36:25 <sbp> his software. hang on a moment
18:37:05 <Morbus> well, mediawiki seemed to rezie the sewcond image.
18:37:09 <Morbus> so they suck too.
18:37:11 <jcowan> You can't expect any such program to work well on a png that's full of diagonal lines used for hashing.
18:37:24 <Morbus> i'm not sure why he used png.
18:38:05 <jcowan> svg would do a better job.
18:38:15 <deltab> it was originally JPEG
18:38:27 <jcowan> Still, two clicks (in Moz) to get to the full-size version isn't too bad.
18:38:41 <Morbus> i don't have any svg viewer.
18:39:00 <Morbus> jcowan: well, i'm not so sure.
18:39:07 <Morbus> i think he uploaded the thumbnail to link to that one inline.
18:39:15 <Morbus> which means it'd be three clicks, unless he also linked to the full res version.
18:39:24 <Morbus> well, more than two clicks.
18:39:25 <Morbus> not three.
18:39:35 <Morbus> i'm gonna be deleting/reuploading that thumbnail anyways.
18:39:38 <Morbus> I hate the sm- prefix.
18:39:42 <Morbus> that should be a suffix, if anything.
18:40:17 <jcowan> deltab: how can you tell?
18:40:24 <jcowan> Morbus: what sm- prefix?
18:40:31 <deltab> jcowan: the grey blocks
18:40:55 <Morbus> jcowan: http://gamegrene.com/wiki/?title=Image:Sm-smallwood.png&rcid=2993
18:41:11 <Morbus> jcowan: yeah, there appears to be dirt/scatter around the blocks.
18:41:31 <sbp> Morbus: http://img233.echo.cx/img233/8633/smallwood9ib.png
18:41:37 <sbp> file size is more than five times smaller too
18:42:31 <deltab> Morbus: that's characteristic of overcompression using JPEG, and especially effects text and line art
18:42:38 <Morbus> deltab: yeah.
18:42:47 <deltab> er, affects
18:42:52 <Morbus> i'll probably, being anal, clear all that stuff out in my editing phase.
18:42:56 <Morbus> sbp: url. loading. forever.
18:43:04 <deltab> I'd ask for an original
18:43:20 <sbp> no idea why echo.cx is so slow today
18:43:29 <deltab> this seems to have had some bad resizing applied to it too
18:43:31 <Morbus> deltab: well, I wouldn't.
18:43:33 <sbp> but anyway, it neatly illustrates that the quality of a PNG is in the hands of a user
18:43:40 <Morbus> I just don't want him to think he did "bad"
18:43:46 <Morbus> I don't want to discourage the use of imagery within entries.
18:43:57 <Morbus> and by askign for the original, i'm suggesting that he wasn't perfect.
18:44:03 <Morbus> i'd much rather just clean it up secretly, at my expense.
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18:44:36 <sbp> oh, I missed that there's http://gamegrene.com/wiki/images/f/f2/Smallwood.png available
18:44:44 <Morbus> yah.
18:44:54 <sbp> could make it a touch better possibly, but I still think smallwood9ib.png is good enough
18:44:55 <Morbus> apparently mediawiki automatically resizes larger one down.
18:45:16 <Morbus> sbp: ib.png is only marginally better.
18:45:24 <Morbus> i'd be going in and adding lines to those missing on the columns.
18:45:29 <Morbus> retyping letters for readability, etc.
18:45:36 <Morbus> the only thing i wouldn't have to do is remove the artifacting.
18:45:42 <jcowan> * jcowan notes that Cygwin's /bin/sh is ash, not bash.
18:45:59 <jcowan> Morbus: is that mw or Mozilla?
18:46:01 <deltab> thresholding could clean up the grey blocks
18:46:23 <Morbus> jcowan: both.
18:46:41 <Morbus> the primary Image:Smallwood.png has a "Download high res version" at the bottom.
18:46:44 <Morbus> of the page.
18:46:55 <Morbus> which mozilla then reszies to the window, which you'd then click on to see the realness.
18:48:18 <jcowan> Aha and oho.
18:48:19 <sbp> Morbus: http://img239.echo.cx/img239/9089/smallwood21bp.png
18:48:27 <sbp> whoo, ahaoho!
18:48:38 <sbp> the meme is spreading. love the meme!
18:48:41 <jcowan> ash does not do ~ expansion, so /bin/sh scripts using ~s don't work on Cygwin.
18:48:45 <Morbus> yeah, that one is real good.
18:49:02 <jcowan> * jcowan hangs ash in effigy.
18:49:05 <sbp> excellent
18:49:19 <sbp> jcowan: yes, that is annoying
18:49:27 <sbp> that's why I use "#/usr/bin/env bash" all the time
18:50:25 <jcowan> Well, using ~ was trivial; I just rewrote the script to have a "cd" at the beginning.
18:51:08 <sbp> you shouldn't have to though
18:51:14 <sbp> /bin/sh should be, you know, sh
18:51:36 <sbp> * sbp wonders what'd happen if you really had sh instead of ash there...
18:52:32 <sbp> [[[
18:52:33 <sbp> I have run into a number of packages over the years that choke with
18:52:33 <sbp> ash as /bin/sh for this and other reasons. So, one of the first things
18:52:33 <sbp> I tend to do on a Cygwin system is to move /bin/sh out of the way and
18:52:33 <sbp> replace it with BASH.
18:52:41 <sbp> ]]] - http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/gnu-arch-users/2004-07/msg00168.html
18:52:52 <Morbus> * Morbus sticks another foot in mouth and takes on a tech editing job.
18:53:01 <Morbus> I don't know what my problem is. I can't seem to say "no" for new projects.
18:53:57 <sbp> [[[
18:53:57 <sbp> cd /bin
18:53:57 <sbp> mv ash.exe ash.old
18:53:58 <sbp> mv sh.exe ash.exe
18:53:58 <sbp> ln -s bash.exe sh.exe
18:54:03 <sbp> ]]] - http://mapc77.epfl.ch/gnu-generation/CD/sciences/grass/install/cygwin_grass50compile.html
18:54:14 <jcowan> /bin/sh is a POSIX sh; that's the whole point of ash.
18:54:28 <jcowan> It's not anyone's fault if some people write scripts that depend on bash and don't refer to bash.
18:54:37 <sbp> sh to ash and sh to bash is kinda crazy
18:54:45 <jcowan> Eh?
18:54:49 <sbp> see the thing about
18:54:52 <sbp> ...above
18:55:20 <sbp> once you get a u in there instead of a v, you can't help but reach for a t instead of an e
18:55:31 <jcowan> ash was written by the BSDheads to replace the encumbered AT&T sh.
18:55:48 <sbp> ah, I see
18:55:59 <sbp> so tilde-expansion isn't POSIXly correct?
18:56:01 <jcowan> Hence its name: "a shell".
18:56:12 <jcowan> * jcowan goes to look
18:56:55 <jcowan> Yup. No reference to ~ in http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/utilities/sh.html
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18:57:35 <sbp> posix needs to get with the plan
18:58:13 <jcowan> But here it is in http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/utilities/xcu_chap02.html , so I don't know what ash is doing here.
18:58:48 <sbp> posix got with the plan quickly
18:59:32 <sbp> perhaps it stands for a sHELL
19:00:38 <jcowan> I think they were more concerned about compatibility with SVR4 sh, and Posix may have moved on since then.
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19:00:55 <jcowan> The Posix definition of 'ex' is absolutely loaded with cruft.
19:01:11 <jcowan> * jcowan checks solaris
19:01:16 <deltab> committee?
19:01:23 <jcowan> deltab: Doubtless.
19:01:35 <jcowan> Yeah, the solaris sh doesn't know from ~.
19:01:46 <jcowan> And that's pure AT&T code (with Sun hacks).
19:04:22 <jcowan> deltab: It seems to be a matter of just restating what various implementations do, only with SHALL instead of is/does.
19:04:40 <jcowan> So the standard says that implementations shall do what historical implementations already do do.
19:04:45 <jcowan> Mostly.
19:05:54 <deltab> It's like the Homer Simpson approach to management: "You there! Er... keep doing what you were doing."
19:05:57 <jcowan> Yes.
19:06:12 <jcowan> In particular, it's impossible to do a conformant ex implementation that isn't also a conformant vi implementation.
19:07:10 <jcowan> Consequently, I've had to take a pick-and-choose approach to Posix.
19:09:47 <sbp> POSIX ex is equivalent to a minimally conformany vi?
19:09:48 <kpreid> jcowan: Why's that? There's a standard "enter vi mode" command?
19:10:22 <deltab> :vi, I believe
19:10:25 <jcowan> Right.
19:10:53 <kpreid> Hmmm.
19:10:55 <jcowan> Essentially the ex and vi specs are Siamese twins: they are two parts of the spec for a single program.
19:11:11 <jcowan> There is also o, which opens a one-line vi window.
19:11:17 <jcowan> Not all ex/vi's implement it.
19:12:42 <sbp> hmm. the more I program this sitemap thing, the less cool I think it is
19:13:02 <crschmidt> sbp: you did see that google provides an indexing tool, correct?
19:13:04 <sbp> if you've got a lot of query stuff, it's kinda difficult to generate a sitemap
19:13:06 <kpreid> what're its claimed benefits?
19:13:11 <sbp> yeah, but can you see it working with inamidst?
19:13:19 <sbp> I mean, how is that going to cope with /inside/*?
19:13:26 <crschmidt> Don't know, didn't look at it much
19:13:32 <crschmidt> I don't know how inside works :)
19:13:46 <sbp> even I'm not sure how to implement changefreq
19:13:55 <sbp> I mean, not even all CGIs update constantly
19:14:12 <sbp> you just can't tell unless you specifically report on their expected output in the code somewhere
19:14:12 <themaximus> themaximus (~max@cpe-69-204-83-40.rochester.res.rr.com) has joined #swhack
19:14:19 <sbp> so you have to go around manually tagging this information
19:14:27 <crschmidt> Or not include it.
19:14:29 <sbp> or have a little bot constantly spidering your own site
19:14:34 <sbp> right
19:14:42 <sbp> so if you don't include it... what's the point?
19:14:56 <crschmidt> considering you have a bot spider your site every time someone hits /updates/ anyway...
19:14:57 <sbp> so I don't see much point in anything but <loc>
19:15:06 <sbp> well yeah
19:15:12 <sbp> but that only gives the URIs of the stuff
19:15:12 <crschmidt> well, last modified isn't completely useless
19:15:12 <crschmidt> is it?
19:15:19 <Morbus> jcowan: ah, we do mention eggs: http://gamegrene.com/wiki/Vulcrue
19:15:25 <Morbus> " hatched from the first egg clutch of the Creator"
19:15:26 <sbp> not completely, no, was just about to say "maybe lastmod
19:15:28 <sbp> ..."
19:15:44 <crschmidt> heh, heh. IT's scary how much I think like you sometimes.
19:15:50 <crschmidt> (blammo, blammo)
19:16:06 <sbp> if only you knew what I was thinking now... :-)
19:16:50 <sbp> another thing is: what if the sitemap lags behind the rest of the site?
19:17:11 <sbp> the sitemap itself needs a lastmod time
19:17:30 <crschmidt> can't you include that in the "multiple sitemaps" file?
19:17:32 <sbp> and really, a lastmod time of anything other than now makes all the lastmod information inside it useless
19:17:54 <sbp> yeah. hang on, I should read the FAQ thing
19:20:20 <sbp> kpreid: the benefit is, it seems, the <priority> tag
19:20:28 <sbp> ...element! the fuck
19:20:53 <kpreid> ha
19:21:01 <sbp> plus the fact that you're not leaving the crawling as much to change
19:21:06 <sbp> chance. sigh
19:21:32 <sbp> I think I might provide lastmod information for any files which aren't dynamically generated
19:21:41 <kpreid> i read somewhere that teaching English can lead to erosion of one's skills at it because one reads so much bad stuff in the process
19:21:59 <sbp> aw. they have XSD but not RELAX NG
19:22:10 <sbp> kpreid: heh, heh
19:22:17 <schepers_> schepers_ (schepers@cpe-066-057-015-168.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #swhack
19:22:41 <sbp> crschmidt: you can, and I presume they'd use Last-Modified too
19:23:34 <sbp> I wonder how many decimal places "priority" can have?
19:26:51 <BigJibby> BigJibby has quit (Remote closed the connection)
19:29:10 <jcowan> sbp: the Sun Multischema Converter is your friend here.
19:29:51 <sbp> or Trang
19:29:57 <Ash> bong
19:29:58 <schepers> schepers has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:30:14 <sbp> "The Sun RELAX NG Converter converts from a variety of different schema languages into RELAX NG. However, it is based on an object model which is designed to support validation, and so does not preserve aspects of the input schemas that are irrelevant for validation (such as the definitional structure)." - http://www.thaiopensource.com/relaxng/trang.html
19:30:18 <jcowan> Trang won't read XSD, but Sun's code will.
19:30:19 <Morbus> jcowan: ping.
19:30:22 <Morbus> oh, there you are.
19:30:31 <Morbus> you have a moment for some ghyll consultation?
19:30:40 <Morbus> concernign your Vulcure.
19:30:42 <Morbus> what's a pentadeity?
19:30:43 <jcowan> Yeah.
19:30:48 <Morbus> Vulcrue.
19:30:49 <sbp> it won't read XSD? wow
19:31:05 <jcowan> James thought he had better things to do than write an XSD understander.
19:31:08 <sbp> ah, "except that W3C XML Schema is supported for output only"
19:31:12 <sbp> yeah, don't blame him
19:31:18 <jcowan> It's like a trinity, I guess, only there are five of them.
19:31:31 <Morbus> so there are five types of deity groups?
19:31:41 <jcowan> Say what?
19:32:04 <jcowan> DTD output from Trang is also crappy.
19:32:07 <jcowan> "deity groups"??
19:32:08 <Morbus> is there an equivalent word of "pentadeity" for the octuplets?
19:32:25 <jcowan> Morbus, I have no clue where you are coming from.
19:32:35 <Morbus> [[[
19:32:36 <Morbus> Some stories of [[Carsokian|Carsok]] of [[Vulcrue]] place her as the first mother of a corpse birth. After years of waiting for her own egg to hatch, only to realize that [[Shtreiml]] had ensured the shell unbreakable, Carsok slit her own throat, hoping her life blood would give strength to her daughter trapped within. As the last drops of her life ebbed away, a crack formed, and then another. Freed, her daughter spent the better part of her life pu
19:32:36 <Morbus> rsuing her mother's dream: the pursuit of imbalance between Quintuplets and Octupulets.
19:32:36 <Morbus> ]]]
19:33:15 <Morbus> Carsok was ever hopeful of her egg because she believed it'd give the Wrathful Q's ever-increasing power over the Joyful O's
19:33:36 <jcowan> Fair enough.
19:33:44 <jcowan> Vulcrue is just the collective name of five deities.
19:33:51 <Morbus> who are quintuplets.
19:34:03 <Morbus> AND a pentadeity
19:34:07 <jcowan> Each is not a quintuplet; collectively they are quintuplets.
19:34:14 <Morbus> whereas octulplets would be an octodeity? or some such.
19:34:40 <jcowan> Ah, I see. Typo in Vulcrue article (or really thinko)
19:34:44 <sbp> * sbp wonders how to handle /dict vs. /dict/
19:34:52 <jcowan> Well, not that either.
19:35:14 <jcowan> Ah, I think I see now.
19:35:15 <sbp> heh, who'd've thought that making a sitemap would be this hard
19:35:21 <Morbus> hmm.
19:35:27 <jcowan> "Quintuplet" means *one* of the five born together.
19:35:33 <Morbus> * Morbus wonders if he should make the baby the first NON-Creator created birth.
19:35:36 <Morbus> which wsa why it never was born.
19:35:41 <Morbus> or born naturally.
19:36:08 <jcowan> So when I say the parts of Vulcrue are quintuplets, I mean that they are five individuals born together.
19:36:17 <jcowan> Not that each individual god is a fivesome.
19:36:21 <Morbus> right, yeah, i got that.
19:36:35 <sbp> ah, CGIs that do PATH_INFO munging are generally ones whose base is scriptname/, so I can grep them for PATH_INFO... but that's kinda horky
19:36:47 <sbp> I have a feeling that this is going to be a floporama
19:36:51 <jcowan> * jcowan looooves PATH_INFO
19:37:00 <sbp> yeah, 'sgreat
19:37:04 <Morbus> I do too.
19:37:07 <crschmidt> sbp: why are you even bothering?
19:37:25 <sbp> well, <priority> does seem to be a real benefit
19:37:30 <crschmidt> * crschmidt doesn't know what PATH_INFO is
19:37:34 <sbp> and it's making my ls.py code a little better
19:37:47 <sbp> so you can do /dict/hmm instead of /dict?term=hmm
19:37:54 <Morbus> Some stories of [[Carsokian|Carsok]] of [[Vulcrue]] place her as the first mother of both a corpse birth and the first non-[[Creator]]-created being.
19:37:57 <Morbus> i like that addition.
19:38:04 <sbp> it's like QUERY_STRING, but with a / not a ?
19:38:10 <Morbus> yeah
19:38:23 <Morbus> one of my examples of path info use:
19:38:33 <Morbus> http://nhpr.org/appeared_on_npr/all_things_considered/
19:38:52 <Morbus> That's actually "appeared_on_npr.php" getting sent an all_things_considered arg
19:39:04 <Morbus> and also http://nhpr.org/appeared_on_npr/morning_edition/
19:39:10 <sbp> crschmidt: see The Other Channel for a list of PATH_INFO instances
19:39:18 <sbp> noting that even that script itself uses PATH_INFO too
19:40:03 <sbp> http://inamidst.com/misc/folkrec is a Ghyll-oriented page using it :-)
19:40:25 <sbp> /list/ does too
19:40:58 <Morbus> whoops.
19:41:01 <Morbus> i think i broke your server.
19:41:03 <Morbus> http://inamidst.com/misc/folkrec/111111111111111
19:41:07 <Morbus> its stalling.
19:41:16 <sbp> not mine. crschmidt's or Aaron's
19:41:21 <Morbus> heh,
19:42:23 <crschmidt> mine
19:42:45 <Morbus> did I?
19:43:16 <crschmidt> well, someone's webserver python2.3 processes are taking 100% CPU
19:43:27 <Morbus> that's not fault.
19:43:29 <Morbus> sbp sucks at python.
19:43:31 <Morbus> * Morbus ducks.
19:43:42 <crschmidt> * crschmidt shrugs.
19:44:00 <themaximus> themaximus has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
19:44:15 <sbp> * sbp goes in with the debug toolbox
19:44:19 <themaximus> themaximus (~max@cpe-69-204-83-40.rochester.res.rr.com) has joined #swhack
19:45:08 <crschmidt> 13685 www-data 17 0 2156 2152 1240 R 34.0 0.4 0:33.57 python2.3
19:45:11 <crschmidt> 13653 www-data 16 0 2156 2152 1240 R 33.3 0.4 1:22.76 python2.3
19:45:15 <crschmidt> 13651 www-data 16 0 2156 2152 1240 R 32.7 0.4 1:35.54 python2.3
19:46:05 <Morbus> heh! http://gamegrene.com/wiki/Creator#York_of_Brahang
19:46:23 <sbp> crschmidt: fixed temporarily
19:46:40 <crschmidt> is it an infinite loop?
19:46:45 <sbp> nope
19:46:48 <crschmidt> or will it finish eventually?
19:46:54 <sbp> one day
19:46:59 <crschmidt> heh, heh
19:47:06 <Morbus> hehe
19:47:28 <crschmidt> not anymore they won't
19:47:46 <nsh> nsh (tourful@nsh.wikipedia) has joined #swhack
19:47:48 <crschmidt> um
19:47:53 <crschmidt> fixed? doesn't work at all for me now
19:48:00 <Morbus> that's how he fixed it.
19:48:02 <Morbus> * Morbus sighs.
19:48:20 <Morbus> sbp: can you send me the orignial code?
19:48:23 <Morbus> i'd like to not lose the resource.
19:48:28 <nsh> hmm?
19:48:35 <kpreid> crschmidt: so, when are you going to start regretting getting into the web hosting business? :)
19:48:55 <jcowan> * jcowan must reinstall ant.
19:49:08 <crschmidt> kpreid: hey, it's not my hardware. It could have run at 100% CPU forever for all I cared: crschmidt.net was plenty fast
19:49:47 <sbp> Morbus: it was just temporary so that crschmidt's server didn't get further hammered
19:49:54 <sbp> Morbus: I think it should be fixed properly now
19:50:09 <sbp> instant response: "Folktown Records edition 111111111111111 was issued on 2314814814802/0/8 EC."
19:50:23 <Morbus> aw yeah.
19:50:38 <Morbus> i'll need to know sometime around 10,000 EC.
19:50:45 <Morbus> I'm planning the IRC game in that era.
19:51:20 <sbp> hehe. Folktown Records edition 1000000000000000000000000000000000000 was issued on 20833333333333333333333333333333320/6/15 EC.
19:51:27 <eikeon_> eikeon_ has quit ()
19:51:39 <Morbus> * Morbus uploads first draft of http://gamegrene.com/wiki/Corpse_birth
19:51:43 <sbp> aw. "Folktown Records edition -10000000000 was issued on"
19:51:46 <sbp> must fix that
19:52:27 <sbp> sorry for the server pounding, crschmidt
19:52:40 <crschmidt> pfft, like I said. Not my hardware
19:52:56 <crschmidt> I really should figure out some kind of cgi script killing or something for ridiculously long running stuff
19:52:57 <kpreid> but it is your hardware! you're paying for it! :)
19:53:02 <crschmidt> heh, heh
19:53:17 <crschmidt> any cgi script that runs for longer than an hour is probably hosed
19:53:25 <jcowan> * jcowan misses ^O from old DEC operating systems.
19:53:40 <kpreid> crschmidt: hmmmmmmm
19:53:50 <sbp> "Invalid edition: Folktown Records -10000000000."
19:53:51 <sbp> there
19:54:03 <kpreid> i cam imagine some sort of web-request-triggered long-running task
19:54:16 <sbp> CGI::IRC
19:54:21 <kpreid> so the cgi would have finished sending the response back
19:54:36 <crschmidt> sorry: Meant more than an hour of CPU time.
19:54:36 <jcowan> ^O was a low-level operation that suppressed all output to the tty until the next input request.
19:54:38 <kpreid> but then goes off and does something completely unrelated to talking to the web server
19:55:20 <kpreid> crschmidt: so what? "Hey, render me a 10000x10000 Mandelbrot set image, and call me back when you're done"
19:55:33 <kpreid> "Okay!" *click*
19:55:50 <crschmidt> If that's the case, you should be running it in the shell, not as the web user
19:56:16 <kpreid> no, that was the web browser and the cgi talking :)
19:56:40 <sbp> <Browser> OMG
19:56:43 <sbp> <CGI> WTF
19:56:46 <sbp> <Browser> GET
19:56:48 <sbp> <CGI> LOL
19:57:00 <xover> rlimit?
19:57:07 <kpreid> <Server> STFU
19:57:26 <kpreid> wait, that's not right
19:57:28 <kpreid> * kpreid stops
19:57:40 <sbp> <SMTP> NOOP
19:57:44 <sbp> <SMTP> *N00B
20:00:48 <jcowan> Morbus: copy edited.
20:01:05 <jcowan> Shouldn't it be *righting* the imbalance between Qs and Os?
20:01:18 <Morbus> well, it depends on your definition of imbalance.
20:01:24 <Morbus> if 8/5/3 is magical...
20:01:31 <Morbus> (and what is 3, in this case?)
20:01:45 <Morbus> if [[Creator]] establishs the Sun god and the Queene, that's 2 of the 3. who's the third?
20:01:49 <Morbus> etc, etc.
20:01:53 <deltab> jcowan: stty -a lists "flush = ^O" for me (but it doesn't seem to do anything)
20:02:15 <jcowan> Yeah, that's a hangover from 4BSD which actually did implement it.
20:02:37 <jcowan> The sun god and the Queen probably belong to a different mythos.
20:02:44 <Morbus> jcowan: now according to [[Creator]]
20:02:48 <Morbus> *not
20:03:17 <deltab> How about "swtch"?
20:04:24 <jcowan> The Looliers story is a direct ripoff of an old Chinese myth.
20:04:36 <jcowan> deltab: investigating.
20:04:49 <bjoern_> bjoern_ has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
20:05:00 <Morbus> jcowan: yeah?
20:05:01 <deltab> * deltab finds a swtch.com with "Plan 9 from User Space"
20:07:19 <jcowan> It switched between layers in shl, an offshoot of screen.
20:10:40 <lonur> .w systematic
20:10:43 <phenny> systematic 1. characterized by order and planning; "the investigation was very systematic"; "a systematic administrator"
20:10:47 <phenny> systematic 2. not haphazard; "a series of orderly actions at regular hours"
20:20:40 <_dreaminwjeanni> _dreaminwjeanni is now known as adamhill
20:23:41 <sbp> * sbp comes up with a priority system based on his meta-database
20:24:21 <sbp> I have a little experimental database that I use a bit like a file-properties system, containing titles, keywords, descriptions, etc.
20:24:40 <sbp> if there's any information at all, the priority goes up to 0.8
20:24:50 <sbp> if "highlight" is in the list of keywords, 0.9
20:24:54 <sbp> if the path is /sbp/, 1.0
20:25:05 <sbp> since it's still not showing up in a search for my name, whereas / is
20:25:07 <sbp> very annoying
20:25:39 <Ash> stabby
20:26:11 <sbp> and, in a break with tradition, it seems to have worked first time
20:26:17 <sbp> well, not a break with tradition. Python's like that
20:26:19 <sbp> hey Ash
20:26:38 <Ash> hi
20:26:38 <Anical> what's up, Ash
20:26:42 <Ash> hi Anical
20:26:49 <Ash> Anical: ir238 iusdhilj 12309sd
20:26:49 <Anical> Ash: Dunno.
20:26:51 <Ash> Anical: ir238 iusdhilj 12309sd
20:26:51 <Anical> Ash: Umm... ask Monty.
20:26:52 <Monty> aah
20:26:54 <Ash> Anical: ir238 iusdhilj 12309sd
20:26:54 <Anical> Ash: Dunno.
20:27:10 <Ash> python can be nice that way
20:27:21 <Ash> why aren't you working on pypy, sbp
20:27:22 <Ash> geez
20:27:31 <sbp> pypy?
20:27:34 <sbp> oh, python in python. heh
20:30:01 <jcowan> Oh, Squeak-style. Excellent.
20:30:11 <jcowan> * jcowan loooves broken metacircularity.
20:30:28 <sbp> or C-style
20:30:40 <Ash> yeah, I'm excited for pypy
20:32:29 <jcowan> C-style?
20:32:31 <jcowan> Oh, I guess so.
20:32:39 <jcowan> But the C library is written in C, not a subset of it.
20:32:59 <jcowan> The key point in Squeak is that the Squeak VM is written in Slang, a subset of Squeak.
20:34:20 <uche> pypy uses full Python
20:35:11 <sbp> * sbp implements the PATH_INFO sniffer
20:35:23 <sbp> works. /dict/ is /dict/ and /encnorm is /encnorm
20:35:38 <sbp> ah, but /inside/ is /inside
20:35:42 <sbp> this will not stand!
20:35:52 <sbp> trouble is, that's a mod_rewrite rule
20:36:17 <sbp> it is in the meta-database though... hmm
20:36:36 <jcowan> uche: "In order to make a C code generator feasible we restrict ourselves to a subset of the Python language, and we adhere to some rules which make translation to lower level languages more obvious."
20:36:54 <sbp> so if it exists in there with the slash added, I can add the slash
20:36:54 <uche> so they changed that
20:37:03 <uche> * uche shrugs
20:37:54 <sbp> damn, now /code/ comes out as /code//
20:38:18 <sbp> and inside is still slashless. that's nuts. double negative?
20:39:21 <jcowan> In Squeak there is a bunch of C code that handles non-portable stuff, but much less than say java's VM.
20:40:06 <sbp> argh, some unrelated bug
20:40:37 <sbp> there. fixared!
20:40:46 <jcowan> [[[
20:40:47 <jcowan> As exciting as the day the interpreter first ran, was the day we released Squeak to the Internet community. In the back of our minds, we all felt that we were finally doing, in September of 1996, what we had failed to do in 1980. However, the code we released ran only on the Macintosh and, although we had worked hard to make it portable, we did not know if we had succeeded.
20:40:47 <jcowan> Three weeks later, we received a message announcing Ian Piumarta's first UNIX port of Squeak. He had ported it to seven additional UNIX platforms two weeks later. At the same time, Andreas Raab announced ports of Squeak for Windows 95 and Windows NT. Neither of these people had even contacted us before starting their porting efforts!
20:40:50 <jcowan> ]]]
20:41:07 <sbp> next problem: if I have sitemap.html and sitemap.gz is this going to cause a cauldron-of-ndw style problems?
20:41:17 <sbp> regarding conneg, I mean
20:41:19 <jcowan> -- Back to the Future: The Story of Squeak, A Practical Smalltalk Written in Itself
20:41:38 <crschmidt> couldron-of-ndw: have a reference?
20:41:47 <crschmidt> oop, cauldron
20:42:08 <sbp> http://norman.walsh.name/2003/07/02/conneg
20:42:35 <jcowan> The RPython compiler in pypy is much hairier than the Slang compiler in Squeak.
20:42:56 <sbp> I was thinking about sitemap.xml.gz
20:43:53 <uche> Their original idea was to use "liftin" code to bootstrap some Python features
20:44:10 <uche> The failure of that concept might be behind some of the delay in PyPy
20:44:27 <uche> And it might explain a few of the flame wars on python-dev I haven't had the time to watch more clearly
20:44:37 <Ash> interesting
20:45:02 <sbp> $ ./sitemapper.py | wc
20:45:02 <sbp> 2404 2406 52791
20:45:09 <sbp> guess I'm not going to hit that 10MB limit
20:45:13 <jcowan> The interpreter tower (aka 3-Lisp, Brown, Blond, Black, etc.) is a fascinating business.
20:45:14 <crschmidt> heh, heh
20:45:23 <crschmidt> google's script cuts it off at 5000 URIs, for the record
20:45:28 <sbp> yeah, I test for that too
20:45:38 <crschmidt> which is odd to me, since I thought the limit was 10,000?
20:45:46 <crschmidt> or am i mixing up megabytes and locations?
20:45:47 <sbp> and values being the right length, well-formed XML, and utf-8 encoded
20:46:22 <sbp> 10MB, 50,000 URLs
20:47:12 <crschmidt> I can't imagine that you'll run into a content negotiation problem
20:47:40 <jcowan> Anybody know how to convince ant to compile stuff for the first time?
20:47:50 <crschmidt> You could also do sitemap.gz.gz
20:48:01 <jcowan> It's trying (for reasons of alphabetical order) to compile a higher-level class before a lower-level one.
20:48:19 <crschmidt> In which case I'm pretty sure content negotiation wouldn't come into play
20:48:27 <Ash> compress it twice to make sure it's as compressed as it can be
20:48:34 <sbp> "No. Using Google Sitemaps will not influence your PageRank; there will be no change in how we calculate the ranking of your pages." - but it says that the priority element will influence relative rankings, right?
20:48:52 <Ash> sbp is totally going to become a SEO
20:49:02 <sbp> Ash: bz2 stands for bzip twice, right?
20:49:15 <sbp> Ash is totally going to become burninated
20:49:32 <Ash> hahahha
20:49:41 <Ash> sbp: RITE
20:50:33 <jcowan> [[[
20:50:38 <jcowan> Here's the short story for getting up and running quickly with LLVM:
20:50:38 <jcowan> 1. Read the documentation.
20:50:38 <jcowan> 2. Read the documentation.
20:50:38 <jcowan> 3. Remember that you were warned twice about reading the documentation.
20:50:40 <jcowan> ]]]
20:50:56 <Ash> jcowan: what's that from
20:51:12 <jcowan> http://llvm.cs.uiuc.edu/docs/GettingStarted.html
20:51:19 <jcowan> There's more, it doesn't stop there.
20:51:47 <Ash> what's LLVM?
20:52:40 <jcowan> A generic low-level virtual machine.
20:52:49 <Ash> interesting.
20:53:12 <crschmidt> All these interesting projects that I never knew existed when I was at the university that hosts them.
20:53:22 <jcowan> Introductory paper at http://llvm.cs.uiuc.edu/pubs/2004-01-30-CGO-LLVM.html .
20:53:56 <jcowan> The interpreter tower: you type "foo" to interpreter #1, which is being interpreted by interpreter #2, which is being interpreted by interpreter #3, and so on ... turtles all the way down.
20:54:17 <jcowan> Luckily, all the lower-level interpreters are running the read-evaluate-print loop, so they can be collapsed into one.
20:54:35 <jcowan> To be reflective, you just need an escape that lets code be executed by the one-level-down interpreter.
20:59:53 <Morbus> anyone know about floorplans and copyright?
21:00:43 <sbp> heh, sitemap_gen-1.0 seems to have write permissions off by default on all the files
21:05:08 <lonur> an author has copyright to his book for as long as he lives plus around 70 years, is that copyright you want to know Morbus?
21:05:32 <Morbus> not entirely, no :)
21:05:43 <crschmidt> sbp: yeah, even on the example_config file, which seemed silly
21:07:21 <sbp> yeah, which I copied over and found I couldn't write
21:07:26 <sbp> so I just saved elsewhere and moved it
21:07:31 <sbp> this is weird:
21:07:37 <sbp> [WARNING] Discarded URL for not starting with the base_url: http://robots.txt
21:07:42 <crschmidt> yeah, I just used vim with :w!
21:07:43 <sbp> got a few like that, but only a few
21:07:45 <sbp> heh
21:07:46 <crschmidt> vim is good like that
21:07:51 <sbp> yeah, yeah
21:08:25 <redmonk> redmonk has quit ()
21:08:57 <sbp> er... heh
21:09:04 <sbp> it automatically generates priorities
21:09:14 <sbp> wonder what that's based on. number of hits, inbound links, etc.?
21:09:44 <sbp> BZZT: <loc>http://inamidst.com/aefram</loc>
21:09:50 <sbp> trailing slash, please
21:10:06 <sbp> some filename/filename.html duplicates
21:10:07 <serapion> serapion has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
21:10:22 <sbp> loads actually, it seems
21:11:00 <sbp> answers my question about the floats, too
21:11:07 <sbp> decimal places o rama
21:11:24 <sbp> doesn't pay any attention to robots.txt
21:11:58 <jcowan> Ittywhonk!
21:12:00 <jcowan> jcowan has quit ("Bailing out")
21:13:35 <sbp> sigh, now I wanna write a script to sort these priorities
21:14:06 <sbp> heh, bet I can do it in bash
21:15:20 <sbp> * sbp reconsiders upon realising it'll mean line-lookaheads in sed
21:21:20 <Morbus> Morbus has quit ("http://www.disobey.com/")
21:26:50 <sbp> ehheh
21:26:50 <sbp> http://inamidst.com/favicon.ico (1.0)
21:26:50 <sbp> http://inamidst.com/robots.txt (0.952083333333)
21:27:00 <sbp> hmm, could it be related to number of accesses at all? :-)
21:27:26 <sbp> there are only five above 0.5
21:29:44 <lonur> lonur has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:32:42 <sbp> hmm, bash's time built-in has been updated
21:32:55 <sbp> now displays the time for all processes
21:33:03 <sbp> but does so in a single-line summary
21:33:05 <sbp> which is kinda annoying
21:33:58 <sbp> $ time cat =(echo )
21:33:58 <sbp> cat =(echo ) 0.03s user 0.03s system 78% cpu 0.076 total
21:34:53 <thelsdj> hum
21:35:13 <Ash> zsh
21:36:13 <sbp> yeah, sorry, it is zsh
21:36:26 <sbp> but it must be a recent change; I've been running zsh as my usual shell
21:37:22 <deltab> zsh 4.2.0 does that
21:37:44 <sbp> can I get it to print it nicer in any way?
21:38:47 <sbp> ah, TIMEFMT. joynesses
21:39:23 <sbp> (via http://www.zsh.org/mla/workers/2004/msg01107.html)
21:40:04 <edsu> edsu has quit ("leaving")
21:40:26 <sbp> loggy: pointer?
21:40:26 <sbp> See http://swhack.com/logs/2005-06-03#T21-40-26
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21:53:24 <sbp> crschmidt: use some decent terms in the RDF output could ya?
21:53:37 <jsled> yea!
21:54:00 <sbp> rdfs:Resource instead of sitemap:url
21:54:37 <sbp> dct:modified instead of sitemap:lm
21:55:01 <sbp> pr and cf could go into http://crschmidt.net/ns/list#
21:55:09 <sbp> noting that the Google namespace is for use in XML Schema
21:56:23 <iratsu> iratsu (~iratsu@modemcable157.255-37-24.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #swhack
21:57:26 <raxor> hey crschmidt: yesterday was it you made fun of my http://jeffrafter.com URL...
21:57:54 <sbp> why would he do that?
21:58:33 <raxor> I don't remember... but I thought I would ask :)
21:58:44 <sbp> in here or in #svg?
21:58:54 <raxor> maybe in #svg
21:59:01 <raxor> there is no log of it happening though
21:59:08 <raxor> it could have been codine induced
21:59:22 <sbp> sounds likely
21:59:35 <raxor> And I never remember who said anything anyway
21:59:39 <sbp> perhaps someone else with a long nickname
21:59:54 <raxor> sounds likely
22:00:06 <raxor> defintely not someone with a three letter nickname
22:00:39 <sbp> absolutelo posotively not
22:00:52 <raxor> wait a second... was it you sbp?
22:01:04 <sbp> nope
22:01:13 <raxor> right... see I have no clue
22:01:37 <sbp> crschmidt will hopefully reveal all, soon
22:01:59 <raxor> yes, see how he mysteriously waits in the shadows of the IRC channel....
22:02:52 <crschmidt> Twas not I.
22:03:56 <raxor> I thought not... I now wonder if it ever happened
22:04:31 <raxor> maybe I am just insecure about the whole URL thing and I projected my own lack of confidence onto random people in IRC
22:04:38 <crschmidt> oh!
22:04:41 <crschmidt> I made fun of your URI
22:04:50 <crschmidt> "Creates Uncool URIs"
22:04:53 <crschmidt> .g Cool URI
22:04:54 <raxor> YES!
22:04:55 <phenny> Cool URI: http://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI.html
22:05:05 <crschmidt> Of course, that document doesn't have a cool URI
22:05:06 <sbp> oh, I vaguely remember
22:05:16 <crschmidt> but it was just a joke more than anything else
22:05:22 <crschmidt> You gave your resume.html link
22:05:26 <raxor> right
22:05:27 <crschmidt> which clearly should have just been /resume/
22:05:31 <crschmidt> er, /resume
22:05:37 <raxor> aha
22:05:45 <raxor> how is that different again?
22:05:47 <kpreid> crschmidt: it does, but Google isn't caring
22:06:30 <Ash> /suspend
22:06:36 <sbp> kpreid: the surrounding pages use .html as the link
22:06:40 <sbp> I asked timbl about it once
22:06:44 <kpreid> sbp: AAAAIIEEEE
22:06:46 <crschmidt> He said it was cause he edits things locally
22:06:50 <sbp> he said that not using .html makes it difficult... right
22:06:55 <sbp> so, go figure, essentially
22:07:08 <crschmidt> raxor: extensions on files which indicate their content type or the means in which they are generated are likely to change over time
22:07:19 <kpreid> filesystems make lousy web resources :)
22:07:27 <Eimi> Eimi has quit ("Leaving")
22:07:35 <raxor> got it
22:07:57 <raxor> I thought that the fact that I left the alt attribute off of the images was *far* worse :)
22:07:59 <kpreid> i deliberately ignore that in working on my own site
22:08:08 <kpreid> of course .Mac is uncool and doesn't do MultiViews
22:08:16 <kpreid> but I don't write foo/index.html links
22:08:23 <kpreid> so to test i just use a local web server
22:09:36 <crschmidt> raxor: I've never been a big "validation or die" fan
22:09:53 <crschmidt> I do too much work in the real world, where things like that don't work so well, and as a result, I get lazy.
22:10:02 <raxor> me too
22:10:22 <raxor> bad us
22:10:33 <sbp> the world needs a validator-lite
22:10:40 <raxor> * raxor slaps himself and crschmidt with a trout
22:10:45 <sbp> if you can't validate a document in 50 lines of perl...
22:11:21 <raxor> sbp, I thought you didn't use perl
22:11:43 <sbp> I thought I'd be language independent for a change
22:11:48 <sbp> but yeah, I meant python
22:11:51 <raxor> :)
22:12:04 <raxor> It was a nice change
22:13:21 <sbp> crschmidt: your output still sucks
22:13:45 <sbp> http://swhack.com/logs/2005-06-03#T21-53-24
22:16:02 <crschmidt> sbp: that's cause I didn't read backscroll
22:16:11 <crschmidt> will do in a bit, need to work on dinner right now
22:16:48 <sbp> import food
22:16:54 <sbp> crschmidt.eat(food)
22:18:08 <sbp> so... sitemapper.py takes 2 seconds real time
22:18:57 <sbp> could use it as a CGI, but it's not going to scale
22:19:47 <adamhill> adamhill has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
22:20:27 <sbp> might be time to work on caching and junk
22:21:07 <raxor> I hate working on junk
22:21:16 <sbp> yeah. caching's fine, junk sucks
22:21:34 <sbp> it's all, junk and junk
22:22:03 <raxor> right... but caching... well that's cool....
22:22:30 <sbp> right. because it's like cajun and chasing and cooking
22:22:35 <sbp> all cool words
22:22:48 <sbp> junk is all just and funk and crap
22:23:11 <sbp> and don't get me started on crap and shit
22:23:13 <raxor> and chunk
22:23:27 <sbp> crap and shit and junk and shit and crap is the worst
22:23:45 <sbp> yeah, chunk. chunk is all crap and junk
22:24:00 <sbp> (that's crap-and-junk, not crap, and junk)
22:24:17 <raxor> you said it.
22:24:29 <sbp> wiggidy wiggidy
22:25:42 <sbp> so, raxor
22:25:58 <sbp> how does it feel to have an uncool URI?
22:26:06 <raxor> I am getting used to it
22:26:12 <sbp> must've been a shock
22:26:16 <raxor> quite
22:26:25 <raxor> I thought my site was very very cool
22:26:27 <thelsdj> oh no!
22:26:31 <thelsdj> who has an uncool URI?
22:26:41 <sbp> whoops, the news is spreading
22:26:44 <sbp> raxor does, thelsdj
22:26:45 <raxor> I mean what website do you go to that is just a big blurry eye jpeg these days
22:26:54 <thelsdj> yikes!
22:26:57 <thelsdj> i feel your pain
22:26:57 <sbp> he thought he was all cool (and junk) until timbl/crschmidt waded in
22:27:21 <thelsdj> i don't even wanna know how uncool my URI is
22:27:30 <raxor> I have now slapped myself with a trout over it
22:27:34 <sbp> how many .htmls does it have in it?
22:27:46 <sbp> raxor: commendable
22:28:05 <thelsdj> i don't think theres any .html's in my uri
22:28:12 <sbp> then it's possibly cool
22:28:20 <raxor> self-forellenprugelling is always a good recourse in such situations
22:28:35 <sbp> * sbp thinks about putting a mod_rewrite rule in to redirect filename.html to filename
22:28:36 <raxor> s/prug/prueg
22:28:50 <thelsdj> i need a better tld as .org is so 2003
22:28:53 <raxor> sigh... even my REs are uncool
22:29:06 <deltab> prüg?
22:29:07 <sbp> 2002 even
22:29:11 <raxor> .cc is pretty hip right now..
22:29:22 <sbp> .xxx is the next thing
22:29:24 <sbp> very 2005
22:29:25 <thelsdj> lol
22:29:29 <jsled> yourmom.xxx
22:29:29 <raxor> deltab: that's it
22:29:33 <sbp> heh!
22:29:42 <raxor> yourmom.xml is more cool
22:29:47 <sbp> quick, jsled. run to a registrar!
22:29:47 <thelsdj> i actually setup a is.pwned.by.thelsdj.org rdns
22:29:54 <thelsdj> just so i could be cool with the irc folks
22:30:00 <sbp> hmm, $swhackername.xml would be good
22:30:03 <sbp> lots of blackmail money
22:30:09 <sbp> er... $swhackername.xxx
22:30:19 <sbp> $swhackername.xml might be more damning though
22:30:28 <raxor> might
22:30:33 <sbp> "pictures of d8uv with lots of XML documents"
22:31:12 <thelsdj> i need to actually put something on my domain, other than a 'these arn't the droid you're looking for' message
22:31:43 <thelsdj> and the sasd thing is usually they are the droids i'm looking for :(
22:32:00 <sbp> xml.xxx - XML documents nude, in the raw, as mother nature intended, naked, in the buff, nekkid, in the nuddy, and such and such
22:32:37 <sbp> see canonicalized hotties
22:32:41 <raxor> Is that like an infoset view?
22:32:49 <sbp> marvel at well rounded processing instructions
22:32:54 <sbp> gaping XML prologs
22:32:58 <sbp> yeah
22:33:08 <raxor> sorry, CDATA sections are members only
22:33:24 <sbp> hehe. but free element on element action for everyone else
22:33:46 <raxor> this joke has gone too far now.
22:33:51 <jsled> heh. heh heh.
22:33:52 <sbp> agreed
22:33:53 <raxor> :)
22:34:17 <sbp> gaping XML prologs is going to be difficult to forget though
22:36:49 <raxor> true true
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22:56:47 <raxor> w00t!
23:09:23 <crschmidt> ^ns rdfs
23:09:24 <julie> The URL for the rdfs namespace is http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#
23:09:37 <crschmidt> ^allRelated http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#resource
23:09:37 <julie> Query returned no results
23:09:40 <crschmidt> ^allRelated http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#Resource
23:09:41 <julie> rdf:type rdfs:Class, rdfs:isDefinedBy rdfs:, rdfs:comment The class resource, everything., rdfs:label Resource
23:09:53 <crschmidt> ^ns dcterms
23:09:53 <julie> The URL for the dcterms namespace is http://purl.org/dc/terms/
23:13:59 <uche> y'all a buncha geeks, f'real
23:14:06 <jsled> word digity
23:15:07 <uche> :-)
23:15:17 <uche> Das EFX is, like, so '94
23:16:13 <uche> "We can take it to '95 if you wanna start actin' like you live"
23:20:30 <crschmidt> phenny: tell sbp, done
23:20:32 <phenny> crschmidt: I'll pass that on for you when sbp is around.
23:21:24 <sbp> crschmidt: awesome. was thinking more explicit names too, though
23:21:43 <sbp> changefreq and priority
23:21:46 <sbp> cf looks like cf.
23:21:57 <jsled> yeah.
23:22:09 <jsled> sbp: don't worry... I've got your back.
23:22:20 <jsled> If crschmidt starts talking any smack, I'll take him out.
23:22:36 <sbp> you've no idea how much that just made me laugh
23:23:01 <jsled> no, I do not.
23:23:13 <sbp> sbp has changed the topic to: If crschmidt starts talking any smack, jsled'll take him out.
23:23:21 <sbp> that's hilarious
23:23:49 <sbp> I've probably just been up too long
23:24:06 <kpreid> yes, yes you have
23:24:14 <kpreid> * kpreid wonders what he's quoting
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23:26:57 <raxor> I have finished with XML Schemas-- I am going to Disneyland!
23:27:15 <raxor> * raxor thinks it is funny to say things like that
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23:43:39 <crschmidt> Anyong got a gzipped google site index?
23:44:41 <sbp> I have now
23:44:51 <crschmidt> URI?
23:46:05 <sbp> temporary one
23:46:19 <sbp> how could you make the same typo on *both* channels?!
23:46:20 <crschmidt> that's fine
23:46:30 <crschmidt> I hit up and enter
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