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00:44:14 <jcowan> Ittywhonk!
00:45:36 <typo_> typo_ is now known as sbb
00:45:41 <sbb> test
00:45:44 <phenny> sbb: 15 Aug 23:11Z <uche> tell sbb no thanks, I'll pass on guessing who named RDF
00:45:47 <sbb> sbb is now known as typo
00:46:08 <typo> typo is now known as typo_
00:52:58 <kpreid> phenny: tell kandinski that, if I understand correctly, his "rungs" are "orders": when they say a language supports "higher-order functions", they mean functions may be arguments to other functions (which are "higher-order"); a function or language that cannot is "first-order".
00:53:00 <phenny> kpreid: I'll pass that on when kandinski is around.
00:53:15 <_adam_gfx> _adam_gfx (n=adamhill@c-24-1-149-167.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) has joined #swhack
00:53:15 <Monty> Thank goodness, _adam_gfx is back!
00:53:17 <phenny> Be quiet, Monty.
00:53:19 <Monty> OK.. I'll log in :) think
00:53:32 <themaximus> themaximus has quit ("Leaving")
00:53:37 <kpreid> Monty, having trouble rememboring your password?
00:53:42 <Monty> 6hrs can learn that leaves you heard about numbers, we care about Ghyll earlier?
00:53:48 <kpreid> oops
00:53:51 <kpreid> .gc rememboring
00:53:53 <phenny> rememboring: 138
00:54:12 <jcowan> kpreid, I think the point is that he was surprised that HO functions were not syntactically marked.
00:56:38 <kpreid> I just wanted to point out the name
00:58:45 <Morbus> jcowan, sbp: #inkscape solved my grid problem.
00:58:47 <phenny> Morbus: 13 Aug 09:05Z <sbp> tell Morbus groovy (ORN). send us the URIs!
00:58:53 <Morbus> just editing the svg to be perfect now.
00:59:06 <Morbus> sbp: i've got the unpublished URL now - looks good.
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01:05:55 <chimezie> chimezie (n=chimezie@ppp-69-215-232-91.dsl.bcvloh.ameritech.net) has joined #swhack
01:06:35 <Arnia> * Arnia huggles inkscape
01:06:56 <Morbus> arnia: coming along, coming along.
01:07:00 <chimezie> .news $rssFeeds
01:07:00 <Emeka> Sorry chimezie, but there is no such variable ($rssFeeds)
01:07:02 <Arnia> Who knows, maybe after I've finished with this monstrosity I'll know enough C/C++ to contribute :p
01:07:10 <Morbus> haven't done any work on the map - just been fiddling with the grid :)
01:08:10 <dmiles> dmiles has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:08:36 <chimezie> .bind rssFeeds list($planetrdf,$swigNotes)
01:09:09 <Arnia> Morbus: I'm looking forward to the perspective stuff landing. Plus click-to-add will be a time saver
01:10:56 <Morbus> yesssss.
01:11:03 <Morbus> after applying the square grid to the map, it came out perfect!
01:11:06 <Morbus> went from 2megs down to 52k.
01:11:08 <Morbus> * Morbus dances.
01:11:36 <Arnia> Ooh... how did you do it then?
01:12:25 <Morbus> pattern fill, with svg edits :)
01:12:32 <Morbus> xml edits.
01:13:08 <Arnia> Ah :)
01:13:21 <Morbus> makes me insanely happy.
01:13:27 <Morbus> that grid thing had been bugging me for a long flipping time.
01:14:40 <Arnia> Pattern fills are immensely useful
01:15:05 <Morbus> when they work.
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01:31:00 <deltab> acronym RDF
01:31:01 <Monty> "RDF" - Ratification dc:subject FILTERS,
01:31:18 <Arnia> That was almost appropriate
01:31:23 <jcowan> acronym rdf
01:31:24 <Arnia> Well done Monty, have a botsnack
01:31:24 <Monty> "RDF" - road, downside floats"
01:31:27 <Monty> Also, does any kind of wagon slurp bot hits with that....
01:31:28 <deltab> ROBOTIC DESTRUCTION FUND
01:31:30 <typo_> acronym enki
01:31:30 <Monty> "ENKI" - excellent non-XML kicked indeed
01:31:39 <typo_> acronym swhack
01:31:39 <Monty> "SWHACK" - sbb: wot http://www.robotsex.com ago" calling kicked
01:31:53 <typo_> acronym typo
01:31:53 <Monty> "TYPO" - toolkit yea.. Postcript of)
01:32:08 <Arnia> acronym Joe
01:32:09 <Monty> "JOE" - Juan over, e.g.
01:32:13 <typo_> acronym arnia
01:32:13 <Monty> "ARNIA" - are. rain No...? inadequate athletics
01:32:27 <typo_> acronym deltab
01:32:27 <Monty> "DELTAB" - deltab Erik luckily that's Any based.
01:32:37 <typo_> yay
01:32:49 <deltab> acronym yay
01:32:49 <Monty> "YAY" - you'd alas, Yet
01:33:10 <typo_> deltab is an recursive acronym
01:33:17 <typo_> a
01:34:05 <jcowan> Ho.
01:34:25 <Arnia> Hi
01:34:32 <Arnia> * Arnia loves singing this song backwards
01:34:45 <typo_> * typo_ is planning to move to san francisco
01:34:53 <typo_> now, how do i get that O1 Visa ? :P
01:35:10 <Arnia> O(1) visa application processes
01:35:19 <jcowan> ho hi, ho hi, og ew krow ot fo tsie.
01:39:41 <jcowan> Alas, visa applications are rarely O(1).
01:40:16 <typo_> yeah :ÜP
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02:16:14 <chimezie> .queryFeed $slashdot "query-chain($rssDates)"
02:16:15 <Emeka> set([u'2005-08-15T17:23:00+00:00', u'2005-08-15T16:35:00+00:00', u'2005-08-15T21:25:00+00:00', u'2005-08-15T19:01:00+00:00', u'2005-08-16T00:49:00+00:00', u'2005-08-15T20:36:00+00:00', u'2005-08-15T19:48:00+00:00', u'2005-08-15T18:11:00+00:00', u'2005-08-15T22:13:00+00:00', u'2005-08-15T23:02:00+00:00'])
02:16:49 <_adam_gfx> _adam_gfx (n=adamhill@c-24-1-149-167.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) has joined #swhack
02:18:10 <chimezie> .varBind today "2005-08-15"
02:19:26 <chimezie> .queryFeed $slashdot "query-chain($today,$rssDateFilter,$rssTitles)"
02:19:27 <Emeka> Ft.Rdf.Parsers.Versa.CompiletimeException: Versa parse error at line 0, column 0: parse error at line 1, column 11: reached end-of-input, expecting 'DASH' or 'FORWARD_ARROW' or 'BACKWARD_ARROW' or 'PIPE'
02:19:55 <chimezie> .queryFeed $slashdot "query-chain('$today',$rssDateFilter,$rssTitles)"
02:19:56 <Emeka> [u'The Mathematics of a Trip to Mars?']
02:22:45 <Arnia> Nice idea http://www.iscifistory.com/scifaku/elements/periodichaiku.asp
02:26:53 <Narrenschiff> Narrenschiff has quit ("Leaving")
02:49:54 <chimezie> .query http://xmlns.com/wordnet/1.6/Enmity "(wordNet:Enmity <- rdfs:subClassOf - type(rss:Class)) - rdfs:label -> *"
02:49:57 <Emeka> Querying against 31 triples
02:49:57 <Emeka> []
02:50:41 <chimezie> .query http://xmlns.com/wordnet/1.6/Enmity "(eq(wordNet:Enmity) <- rdfs:subClassOf - type(rdfs:Class)) - rdfs:label -> *"
02:50:44 <Emeka> exceptions.Exception: Internal Error
02:50:51 <chimezie> uh oh
02:52:52 <chimezie> .query http://xmlns.com/wordnet/1.6/Enmity "wordNet:Enmity - rdfs:comment -> *"
02:52:55 <Emeka> Querying against 31 triples
02:52:55 <Emeka> [u'a state of deep-seated ill-will']
02:57:45 <dmiles> dmiles (i=dmiles@bdsl.66.14.82.104.gte.net) has joined #swhack
02:57:54 <chimezie> .query http://xmlns.com/wordnet/1.6/Enmity "(type(rdfs:Class) |- rdfs:subClassOf -> eq(wordNet:Enmity)) - rdfs:comment -> *"
02:57:57 <Emeka> Querying against 31 triples
02:57:57 <Emeka> [u'the state of being suspected; "he tried to shield me from suspicion"', u'a legal state created by a declaration of war and ended by official declaration during which the international rules of war apply; "war was declared in November but actual fighting did not begin until the following spring"', u'feelings of hostility that are not manifest; "he could sense her latent hostility to him"; "the diplomats\' first concern was to reduce internation
02:57:57 <Emeka> al tensions"', u'feelings of hostility that are not manifest; "he could sense her latent hostility to him"; "the diplomats\' first concern was to reduce international tensions"', u'a legal state created by a declaration of war and ended by official declaration during which the international rules of war apply; "war was declared in November but actual fighting did not begin until the following spring"']
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04:38:50 <jcowan> Ittywhonk!
04:46:10 <bear> bear is now known as bear_afk
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05:22:10 <uche> uche has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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17:13:04 <loggy> loggy (i=sbp@66.9.179.67) has joined #swhack
17:13:04 <kornbluth.freenode.net> topic is: FE19: PRESENTATION FORM FOR VERTICAL HORIZONTAL ELLIPSIS (︙)
17:13:04 <kornbluth.freenode.net> Users on #swhack: loggy phenny Eimi libby Narrenschiff JibberJim Gromgull bskahan ef Arnia clsn bjoern_ chimezie pixel uche_ revox Emeka _adam_gfx themaximus +Monty dmiles parsec_ MoiraA jsled GabeW kpreid thelsdj +lisppaste2 kandinski BeHappy_ lonur shapr xover deltab Xavier Jibbler ziz_ crschmidt +supybot deusx +julie CaptSolo Grantbow nym jessica bear_afk Jipp sbp` kados xower sbp
17:13:32 <Arnia> shapr: I do like Epigram though... sort of like assembly for maths :)
17:14:38 <sbp> phenny: tell xover http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lincolnshire/4155422.stm
17:14:38 <phenny> sbp: 15 Aug 23:11Z <uche> tell sbp no thanks, I'll pass on guessing who named RDF
17:14:40 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when xover is around.
17:15:45 <uche_> chimezie, you jumped on Lawouach's blog already?
17:15:52 <uche_> He'll be happy :-)
17:16:15 <uche_> Lawouach is definitely a good egg
17:16:28 <chimezie> yeah.. but i thouht the author of that blog was CherryPy's developer (Forget his name)
17:16:41 <uche_> Actually, Lawouach is one of the founders
17:16:47 <uche_> The project leader is Remi Delon
17:16:48 <chimezie> ahh..
17:16:53 <uche_> But Lawouach is up there
17:17:02 <chimezie> yeah I was wondering what all the django hype was
17:17:08 <uche_> I don't think Remi has a blog yet
17:17:08 <chimezie> wasn't impressed with what I saw
17:17:17 <chimezie> smelled like Zope
17:17:20 <uche_> CherryPy just rocks the park hard
17:17:36 <uche_> I ported uche.ogbuji.net from 4SS to CP with amazingly little effort
17:17:40 <uche_> It's just clean and clear
17:18:00 <uche_> chimezie, I'll mail you my WordNet/XML/CherryPy article draft
17:18:05 <chimezie> oh.. I didn't know, I thought it was still running on 4Suite
17:18:09 <uche_> Should be pubbed this week, but you could get a preview
17:18:16 <uche_> chimezie, just my personal pages
17:18:17 <chimezie> perhaps I should consider it for metaconition.info instead of 4Suite
17:18:19 <uche_> Not Akara and all that
17:18:22 <chimezie> oh
17:18:35 <uche_> chimezie, as I've been sayig for a while, i think we should stick to XML + RDF in 4Suite
17:18:43 <uche_> Leave the Web server part to someone else
17:18:46 <shapr> Arnia: I think Epigram is the second step in 'real' programming languages. Haskell is the first.
17:18:47 <uche_> namely CherryPy :-)
17:18:49 <chimezie> i agree, the repsitory stuff is a little over it's head
17:18:53 <Arnia> * Arnia nukes Z2 and hugs Z3
17:18:54 <chimezie> everything else is rock solid
17:18:54 <uche_> chimezie, yes
17:19:07 <shapr> Speaking of Zope, I'm ready to nuke the entire Plone community.
17:19:09 <uche_> chimezie, though I do hope Jeremy decides to work on CP's HTTP servre code
17:19:11 <Arnia> shapr: A 2D programming language is a little odd for most people though :)
17:19:11 <shapr> Is Z3 really usable?
17:19:26 <uche_> He could quickly mop up the few remaining nits
17:19:34 <Arnia> shapr: Only just got to that stage. When they deleted Mikey, Tom and my credits I lost patience
17:19:34 <shapr> Arnia: That's just the type syntax, I'm talking about the ability to put bounded lists into types.
17:19:42 <uche_> One thing you can say about 4SS: it just doesn't go down
17:19:45 <chimezie> does it support a SOAP service protocol or is it more generic than that?
17:19:51 <uche_> Jeremy hardened it up something fierce
17:19:53 <Arnia> shapr: Yes, Z3 is really really usable. So fast to develop with
17:20:04 <uche_> chimezie, no, but it would be *so* easy to add
17:20:07 <shapr> I may switch to Z3. I'm very very tired of Plone.
17:20:08 <uche_> I thought about that once
17:20:09 <chimezie> okay
17:20:10 <uche_> a SoapFilter
17:20:17 <shapr> Sadly, Plone has the only i18n layer I know.
17:20:20 <uche_> I'm sure they'd be grateful for a contrib of that
17:20:23 <Arnia> shapr: Requires a bit more structure than say rails, but you reap the rewards of that
17:20:27 <uche_> Let me know if you're interested and need pointers
17:20:32 <shapr> I've not tried Rails yet, though I will soon.
17:20:33 <Arnia> shapr: Z3 has an i18n layer I believe
17:20:34 <chimezie> should be easy. 4SS's SOAP handler is pretty trivial
17:20:37 <chimezie> okay
17:20:39 <uche_> yeah
17:20:46 <shapr> I'm not so thrilled with either Python or Ruby these days.
17:20:53 <chimezie> * chimezie gasps
17:20:53 <shapr> But then, I have my own language I want to write...
17:20:56 <chimezie> not thrilled w/ python?
17:21:04 <shapr> chimezie: Nope, been there done that.
17:21:09 <uche_> <shapr> Speaking of Zope, I'm ready to nuke the entire Plone community.
17:21:13 <uche_> what'd they do to you?
17:21:20 <shapr> I got into Python when python 1.5 was in beta.
17:21:39 <chimezie> hmm.. well.. Python does everything I need.. solves every problem I throw at it.. my language of choice - so I guess I'm biased a bit
17:21:40 <Arnia> I still like Python... never really was too keen on Ruby.
17:21:43 <shapr> uche_: Produced software with more bugs than I can handle.
17:21:48 <uche_> shapr, well, if you're using Zope, I can't like, imagibe why? ;-)
17:21:58 <uche_> Zope != Python (thank goodness)
17:22:04 <chimezie> what i've seen of Ruby doesn't smack me as original in any particular way
17:22:14 <shapr> Ruby's OO model is better than Python's.
17:22:22 <shapr> I prefer Python's significant whitespace.
17:22:23 <uche_> That is not a recommendation
17:22:25 <uche_> OO is crap
17:22:29 <shapr> No arguments there.
17:22:39 <sbp> Llysver the Doomed; 22:45 . . MorbusIff (Talk | block) (Good eveni... nevermind. It's not.)
17:22:40 <shapr> The monadic abstraction is superior in every way, imho :-)
17:22:45 <uche_> I always shake my head when i see people write heavy OO Python
17:22:46 <sbp> poor Morbus
17:22:58 <uche_> Well, monads are, like, everything, dude
17:23:11 <shapr> That's a good way to put it. May I quote you? :-)
17:23:16 <Arnia> I only wish they hadn't called Zope3 'Zope' anything
17:23:18 <chimezie> seems like there is a new programming language born every minute (based mostly of it's predescessors - but equipped with enough hype to get around a bit)
17:23:28 <uche_> shapr, sure
17:23:30 <chimezie> tho Ruby is old as i understand it
17:23:33 <Arnia> It is so radically different... and so much nicer
17:23:45 <shapr> Haskell is more than fifteen years old.
17:23:48 <sbp> phenny: tell Morbus good morni... nevermind, it probably isn't
17:23:48 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when morbus is around.
17:23:53 <shapr> Joy isn't exactly young either.
17:24:05 <Arnia> Python is old too
17:24:09 <uche_> For me, python really needs equivalent *true* LISP macros
17:24:17 <shapr> There are many really good languages, the challenge is getting enough interested developers to form a real community.
17:24:21 <uche_> Not the nested scope/eval type hackery
17:24:40 <shapr> Nowadays I'm addicted to referential transparency.
17:24:43 <Arnia> ECMAScript is old semantically, if you consider it as a nicer syntax on Scheme
17:24:45 <shapr> But I would like macros.
17:24:55 <shapr> That is, macros in Python.
17:25:00 <Arnia> * Arnia wonders about making a pure ECMAScript
17:25:13 <shapr> Have you seen Luke Gorrie's Scheme in JavaScript?
17:25:25 <Arnia> No...
17:26:16 <shapr> http://fresh.homeunix.net/~luke/ - jscm
17:28:35 <uche_> chimezie, do you have any of the Spitkicker mix tapes?
17:28:45 <uche_> They are teh heat, man
17:29:03 <uche_> I mentioned one of 'em in my MF Doom blog entry
17:29:09 <uche_> I should also ask whether you have Doom
17:29:12 <chimezie> nope, I don't
17:29:24 <chimezie> i'm waaaaaay behind on the latest
17:29:30 <uche_> I'll send some CDs back with Mom when she comes
17:29:33 <sbp> sbp has changed the topic to: This sentence is not yet part of GNU Emacs.
17:29:38 <chimezie> considering my most recent purchase (only a few weeks ago) was Common's
17:29:57 <chimezie> I have Doom on my Rhapsody playlisits
17:30:05 <chimezie> but no particular album of his
17:30:17 <shapr> shapr has changed the topic to: This sentence is not yet part of GNU Emacs. | You too can sign over your rights to RMS! | All Power Comes from the Barrel of a Gnu -- Mao Tse Stallman
17:30:28 <uche_> Whatcha think of BE?
17:30:55 <chimezie> I like it.. still not as much as like water for chocolate (or ressurection) but better than electric circus
17:31:01 <uche_> oh?
17:31:05 <uche_> I'm surprised
17:31:17 <uche_> You're as eclectic as I am, so I'd have expected you to feel EC
17:31:21 <chimezie> Rhapsody can kill a music collection
17:31:28 <uche_> But I know it's one of those knife-edge things
17:31:35 <chimezie> i did but only a handful of them
17:31:36 <uche_> Either it's just right, or too much in outer space
17:36:12 <uche_> chimezie, BTW, as if you need more IRC channels, I also hang out on #cherrypy (not Freenode)
17:36:37 <chimezie> which irc server
17:36:40 <Arnia> shapr: What's RMS done now?
17:37:04 <chimezie> i wouldn't mind hanging there.. for I have directed questions
17:37:16 <chimezie> .g cherrypy irc server
17:37:17 <shapr> I could go on for hourse about what I don't like about gnumacs and its community.
17:37:18 <phenny> cherrypy irc server: http://www.cherrypy.org/wiki/CherryPyIrcChannel
17:37:24 <uche_> http://copia.ogbuji.net/blog/2005-05-19/X_Chat_and
17:37:28 <chimezie> thx
17:38:21 <Arnia> shapr: I recently heard that Tom Lord and RMS have had a falling out
17:38:32 <shapr> I'm surprised Tom Lord ever had a falling in.
17:38:59 <shapr> Tom Lord has been posting on ll1-discuss lately. His comments are disruptive, insulting, disrespectful, etc.
17:39:47 <Arnia> Well the nett result is that TL is no longer working on GNU Arch
17:40:13 <Arnia> * Arnia finds Tom Lord an awkward person to witness on #arch
17:40:57 <shapr> Long ago I decided that I don't care how much of a brilliant coder someone is, I still won't read insulting acerbic posts.
17:41:40 <Arnia> Sounds reasonable
17:42:53 <shapr> There are two kinds of disussions, one where people try to work towards a common ground on which to communicate, and one in which the people are fighting each other in order to win the discussion. I very much dislike the second flavor.
17:44:20 <shapr> I always choose cooperative play first, and do my best to kick the crap out people who insist on playing deathmatch.
17:48:12 <Arnia> If there is a disagreement I try and state my case fully, along with any appropriate reasoning, and then hope others do the same so we can figure out what is in common
17:48:22 <shapr> Yeah, but that assumes a coop approach.
17:48:32 <shapr> Some people just don't work that way.
17:48:40 <Arnia> Unfortunately many view even stating your case as being confrontational and shout at you
17:49:45 <xover> .w argument
17:49:47 <phenny> xover: 17:14Z <sbp> tell xover http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lincolnshire/4155422.stm
17:49:57 <phenny> argument 1. a fact or assertion offered as evidence that something is true
17:50:01 <phenny> argument 2. a contentious speech act
17:50:04 <phenny> argument 3. a discussion in which reasons are advanced for and against some proposition or proposal [...]
17:51:49 <xover> phenny: tell sbp I don't blame her. I'd pray for deliverance too, if Tom Hanks was invading /my/ sanctum.
17:51:51 <phenny> xover: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
18:06:35 <jcowan> jcowan (n=jcowan@a7cebc03.cst.lightpath.net) has joined #swhack
18:06:35 <Monty> howdy, jcowan
18:06:54 <Arnia> hoi jcowan
18:07:11 <jcowan> Ho hey ho, Montykins.
18:07:15 <jcowan> Hoi hoi, Arnia.
18:07:16 <Monty> unreleased communist waffles sleeps with Donkey Kong's Playbus and brilliant ongoing Buffy!
18:07:19 <jcowan> (Haven't read it yet.)
18:07:55 <Arnia> Np. Whenever you can is great :)
18:12:52 <parsec_> yew
18:16:09 <edsu> edsu (n=esummers@c-67-173-107-187.hsd1.il.comcast.net) has joined #swhack
18:25:04 <Morbus> Morbus (n=morbus@morbus.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack
18:26:06 <chimezie> * chimezie grumbles over non iso 8601 dc:date values
18:26:14 <chimezie> .news $planetswhack 1
18:26:15 <Emeka> [u'"Uche and Chimezie Ogbuji: Links shot inna di air!" - http://copia.ogbuji.net/blog/2005/08/15#Links_shot', u'"Christopher Schmidt: GRDDL, Microformats" - http://crschmidt.net/blog/archives/89/grddl-microformats/', u'"What Planet is This?: Tea in the Middle" - http://inamidst.com/notes/middletea', u'"What Planet is This?: Virgular Quinquecostate Ogham" - http://inamidst.com/notes/virgular']
18:26:42 <chimezie> .news $planetxml 1
18:26:45 <Emeka> [u'"Links shot inna di air!" - http://copia.ogbuji.net/blog/2005/08/15#Links_shot', u'"Back in harness" - http://seanmcgrath.blogspot.com/archives/2005_08_14_seanmcgrath_archive.html#112409808342672442', u'"Engage Interactive has released DOMIT! 1.0, a\nfree-as-in-speech (LGPL) DOM implementation for PHP." - http://www.cafeconleche.org/#news2005August16', u'"How Big? Who Cares?" - http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2005/08/15/Index-Size-BS',
18:26:45 <Emeka> u'"Standards Bodies? Come on, we don\'t really need standards,\ndo we?" - http://www.xsltblog.com/archives/2005/08/standards_bodie_1.html', u'"Open Laszlo | More Interesting Than I First Realized" - http://www.xsltblog.com/archives/2005/08/open_laszlo_mor.html', u'"Scary Legals, Redux" - http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2005/08/14/Java-Net-Terms', u'"Working Draft: SVG\'s XML Binding Language (sXBL)" - http://www.w3.org/News/2005#item112',
18:28:35 <chimezie> woah.. uche: It's been eons since Mike Olson checked anything into 4Suite
19:07:29 <uche_> he made a checkin?
19:07:32 <uche_> OMG!
19:08:22 <Narrenschiff> Narrenschiff has quit ("Leaving")
19:17:06 <ef> ef has quit ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby")
19:25:43 <chimezie> yeah :) Java parser generation for BisonGen
19:26:18 <chimezie> .w genesis
19:26:20 <phenny> genesis 1. a coming into being
19:26:23 <phenny> genesis 2. the first book of the Old Testament: tells of creation
19:27:03 <chimezie> .mw genesis
19:27:06 <phenny> Entry: gen·e·sis /'je-n&-s&s/, noun
19:27:09 <phenny> Entry: : the origin or coming into being of something [...]
19:28:03 <chimezie> .query http://xmlns.com/wordnet/1.6/Genesis "query-chain('wordNet:Genesis',$wordNetRelatedShort)"
19:28:06 <Emeka> Querying against 14 triples
19:28:06 <Emeka> [u'Genesis [ 1 ]']
19:28:34 <uche_> .bobmarley exodus
19:28:41 <uche_> uche: exodus: Movement of Jah people
19:29:01 <uche_> we need a bobmarley bot
19:29:02 <chimezie> lol
19:29:03 <chimezie> yeah
19:29:21 <chimezie> one that speaks in patua as well
19:29:25 <uche_> heh
19:29:31 <chimezie> .def 'boombaclot'
19:29:44 <uche_> who fi wan profram in dat bombaclot PERL?
19:29:48 <uche_> program
19:30:02 <uche_> Fire pon babylon! Fire pon PHP!
19:30:05 <jcowan> I was gonna say, g>f seems a bit weird for any English-based creole.
19:30:17 <chimezie> haha.. i was waiting for jcowan commentry on patua
19:30:28 <uche_> Dat de street spelling
19:31:23 <uche_> Only crazy bald heads spell it "patois"
19:31:26 <jcowan> Some of my wife's English-literacy students are creole speakers, and give interesting answers when asked what they speak.
19:31:30 <parsec_> where can I find mpfrees?
19:31:50 <jcowan> One says "English", and if pressed, "Geechee" (he's from Trinidad);
19:31:56 <jcowan> another says "patua".
19:32:37 <jcowan> Of course, the range of attitude towards creoles is as diverse as the range of lects from deep creole to standard language, and doesn't in any way necessarily correlate.
19:32:43 <uche_> trinidad is similar to Jamacian patois
19:32:46 <chimezie> only in #swhack
19:32:46 <Arnia> static gboolean patent_mp3_revoke (void);
19:32:54 <jcowan> All the way from "Jamaican has nothing to do with English" to "Oh, we don't really speak a language at all."
19:33:24 <chimezie> .mw creoles
19:33:28 <phenny> Entry: Cre·ole /'krE-"Ol/, noun
19:33:31 <phenny> Entry: 1 : a person of European descent born especially in the West Indies or Spanish America2 : a white person descended from early French or Spanish settlers of the U.S. Gulf states and [...]
19:33:50 <jcowan> Not the sense I was using.
19:33:55 <uche_> jcowan, BTW, I chatted with the fille de bretogne I mentioned (Karen)
19:34:00 <uche_> Saturday
19:34:09 <uche_> Anyway, she said that there are two major divisions
19:34:25 <uche_> upper and lower bretogne
19:34:34 <uche_> "haut", "bas", of course
19:34:38 <jcowan> Yeah.
19:34:40 <uche_> Anyway, she says she's haut
19:34:48 <uche_> And there has been a progression
19:35:06 <uche_> What her grandparents speak hardly anyone in France can make any sense of
19:35:19 <jcowan> chimezie: a language that has evolved from a pidgin but serves as the native language of a speech community
19:35:26 <uche_> What her parents speak is much Frenchified
19:35:53 <uche_> What she speaks when she's being provincial can still be very hard for others to understand, but not to the same degree
19:35:59 <jcowan> uche_: That's the typical progression in Europe now, with some exceptions like Norway.
19:36:18 <chimezie> ahh
19:37:12 <jcowan> In Norway, from what I understand, it's "speak dialect, write one of the two standard languages"
19:37:20 <chimezie> native doesn't neccessary suggest primary, but indigenous to?
19:38:25 <jcowan> "native language" is here defined the language one acquires when transitioning from non-speaking infant to speaking child, regardless of whatever languages one learns or uses later.
19:38:41 <uche_> Yardies say "seen?". Trinis say "don yuh no?"
19:38:43 <uche_> :-)
19:39:35 <chimezie> so I guess 'l33t' speak doesn't qualify
19:39:52 <jcowan> Not yet, but who knows?
19:39:55 <chimezie> :)
19:40:26 <uche_> Supposedly Japanese teen texting has become almost as ingrained as a dialect
19:40:35 <jcowan> Are they talking in it yet?
19:40:41 <uche_> That's what I heard
19:40:43 <chimezie> you know the end is near when your toddler is talking about 'r0xors your b0xors and pwning'
19:40:58 <uche_> Basically, stealing some of the abbreviations for slang expression
19:41:00 <jcowan> The end of something and the beginning of something else.
19:41:05 <chimezie> ya
19:41:12 <uche_> In ways that don't translate at all to Engrish
19:41:34 <uche_> I mean (from memory), that the equivalent adaptations would be absurd in English
19:41:44 <jcowan> Not too surprising.
19:42:04 <uche_> chimezie, LOL
19:42:15 <jcowan> Some people, of course, grow up more or less isolated from their speech community (i.e. they are lames, like me).
19:42:22 <uche_> Well, Jide learned a lot of words from Hot Wheels Bash Arena
19:42:34 <uche_> "And another one down"
19:43:02 <uche_> "No one said it would be easy" (which he brought down the house saying when I stumbled and crashed on the stairs)
19:43:20 <chimezie> haha.. that's a kodak moment
19:43:31 <uche_> not for me :-)
19:43:45 <jcowan> My mother, e.g., was forbidden by her aunts ("the original awful relatives") from playing with the local kids for fear she would pick up the local German instead of the near-Standard that the aunts spoke.
19:43:51 <edsu> edsu has quit ("leaving")
19:44:18 <uche_> Tantes can be such killjoys
19:44:27 <uche_> 'specially the sehr geheerte frau types
19:44:39 <jcowan> Yeah. And in the 1920s it was way worse.
19:45:40 <jcowan> When my mom came here in 1931 she was miserable and felt horribly out of place, but when she went back in '36 or '37 she found out in a hurry how American she had become -- and how Nazi everyone she had known had become.
19:46:10 <jcowan> ""There seems to be in this culture, a culture of respect for each other's status. If disrespectful acts take place that can lead to revenge attacks" --from a BBC article on Yardie gangs.
19:46:30 <jcowan> As opposed, say, to the House of Commons, where revenge attacks are quite unknown.
19:46:44 <uche_> that's funny
19:46:55 <uche_> An nice euphemism for "culture of fear"
19:47:05 <jcowan> Indeed.
19:47:20 <uche_> Seriously, the yardboy culture is really bad for Jamaica, which has an extraordinary overall culture
19:47:32 <uche_> yardboy subculture, i should say
19:47:42 <jcowan> Undoubtedly. Gang subculture is terribly bad for the L.E.S., too.
19:47:49 <uche_> It used to be actual political violence
19:47:50 <jcowan> (where I live)
19:47:53 <uche_> Now it's just random
19:48:18 <jcowan> Ugly.
19:48:24 <shapr> LES?
19:48:31 <jcowan> Lower East Side (of Manhattan)
19:48:31 <shapr> Lower East Side?
19:48:46 <jcowan> (that small island off the coast of North America where I live)
19:48:57 <shapr> Gang violence isn't a problem here, but 95% of people over the age of fourteen drink too much alcohol.
19:49:27 <uche_> The guns swamped the streets in the run-up to the Paul Manley election, and are still everywhere :-(
19:49:45 <uche_> So Westerners pretty much frolick behind barbed wire in Montego bay
19:49:46 <shapr> Yesterday on the bus home from the nearest big city I met five drunk males, ranging in age from 13 to 17.
19:50:08 <jcowan> Drunk/belligerent, drunk/weepy, drunk/comatose, drunk/humorous?
19:50:13 <shapr> 13,14,15,15,17 in fact.
19:50:18 <shapr> drunk/friendly
19:50:52 <shapr> I'm fine with drunk people who don't want to talk to me, but I seem to attract interest. Probably because I don't look Swedish.
19:50:52 <jcowan> Different cultures have different overall reactions to alcohol.
19:51:16 <jcowan> Americans tend to drink to become less extraverted, English to become more so.
19:51:21 <jcowan> (broadly speaking)
19:51:31 <shapr> In Northern Sweden/Finland, people get drunk so they can be brave enough to speak to members of the opposite sex.
19:51:31 <uche_> Yeah. Fins get suicidal/stupid
19:52:01 <uche_> I've had several Finn friends who always seem to want to do dangerous things with burning liquor when they get drunk
19:52:17 <jcowan> Teach them to light their farts instead. It's less expensive.
19:52:20 <shapr> Thus the recent chlamydia epidemic here.
19:52:38 <shapr> I out-drank a Finn in Helsinki once.
19:52:43 <shapr> Bad idea.
19:52:57 <uche_> shapr, WOW
19:53:12 <shapr> It wasn't worth it.
19:53:58 <shapr> You may have heard of him, Erno Kuusela. He's written some Python libs.
19:54:03 <uche_> Most of my Norsk and Svensk friends can't hold all that much down
19:54:12 <uche_> But my Finn friends tipple by the barrel
19:54:24 <shapr> Yeah, Finns can really drink heavily.
19:54:56 <shapr> We had nine beers and two whisky shots that I remember. I have this suspicion we drank more than that, but I'm afraid to think about it too hard.
19:55:14 <shapr> Ever tried salmiakki?
19:55:17 <uche_> And Suomi spoken by a drunken Finn has to be one of the funniest sounds in creation
19:55:20 <shapr> heh
19:55:28 <shapr> kylla :-)
19:55:31 <shapr> puhutko suomea?
19:55:42 <uche_> Nei :-)
19:56:09 <shapr> That's punny, it's "ei" in Finnish, and "Nej" in Swedish.
19:56:16 <uche_> Right
19:56:21 <jcowan> I always wonder about what English sounds like to people who don't understand it.
19:56:21 <uche_> And "No" in Norsk
19:56:33 <uche_> well, proonounced like "nah"
19:56:38 <uche_> hmm. I need IPA
19:56:44 <sbp> jcowan: Greek, except to Grecians. to them it sounds Dutch
19:56:44 <uche_> not nah
19:56:52 <uche_> "not" without the "t"
19:57:02 <shapr> uche_: I'd enjoy hanging out with you if ever we're in the same city.
19:57:10 <uche_> shapr, absolutely
19:57:12 <uche_> some day
19:57:23 <jcowan> uche: see http://www.theiling.de/ipa/
19:57:24 <uche_> * uche_ loves Scandanavia
19:57:34 <jcowan> a full mapping of IPA into ASCII, somewhat standard.
19:57:34 <uche_> Just one visit, but I hope more to come
19:57:38 <shapr> * shapr lives ScannedInAvia
19:58:01 <uche_> IRC = tupo :-)
19:58:13 <shapr> IRC started in Oulu, did you know?
19:58:19 <uche_> Oh?
19:58:29 <uche_> Why am I not surprised?
19:58:31 <shapr> heh
19:58:34 <Arnia> jcowan: I heard once that the Chinese think of English as being a very 'hissing' language
19:58:36 <jcowan> Yeah. Which is why [\]{\} are legal in IRC nicks.
19:58:36 <uche_> probably by people sitting next to each other
19:58:44 <shapr> Finland has produced IRC, Linux, Neural Networks, ssh, and so much more!
19:59:01 <jcowan> due to the old iso-646-fi charset that mapped them into non-ASCII vowels.
19:59:06 <sbp> that sour candy
19:59:11 <sbp> Nokia
19:59:15 <uche_> jcowan, nice link, thanks
19:59:16 <sbp> and suicide
19:59:29 <uche_> a lot of IPA table sites are too much hassle to locate/cut+paste
19:59:32 <sbp> and cute vowels with funny little dots on 'em
19:59:32 <shapr> That sourc candy is salmiakki.
19:59:41 <jcowan> shapr: you know the first n in "Scandinavia" is the result of a very old typo?
19:59:49 <uche_> Wikipedia's IPA page is a mess
19:59:51 <shapr> I did not know that, tell me more!
20:00:25 <shapr> jcowan: Most people tell me that I know more trivia than they ever knew existed, but you are that level above me :-)
20:00:58 <uche_> * uche_ guesses that most #swhackers are local maxima of their usual populations in trivia
20:01:05 <shapr> * shapr grins
20:01:14 <uche_> And jcowan is well beyond a local maximum
20:01:24 <chimezie> I can hold my own in counter-strike trivia :)
20:01:42 <shapr> chimezie: What's the rate of fire of the P90?
20:01:44 <jcowan> Pliny the Elder referred to Skaane as "Scadinauia"
20:01:52 <chimezie> ooohhh..
20:02:03 <chimezie> as a value in the hl engine or in rl?
20:02:16 <shapr> In the HL Engine, CS isn't exactly realistic.
20:02:28 <chimezie> um... you got me on that one :)
20:02:33 <jcowan> i.e. the "skada-o/y"; he thought it was an island.
20:02:42 <jcowan> Copyist's errors got an extra "n" into the word.
20:02:57 <shapr> I used to be addicted to Counter-strike, lucky for me I broke the addiction after a few years.
20:03:07 <chimezie> okay in what cs version did the m4 lose it's scope?
20:03:15 <chimezie> same here, my addition was pretty shameful
20:03:22 <chimezie> but I was pretty good for what it's worth
20:03:35 <uche_> Scads of avia
20:03:50 <shapr> chimezie: 0.6 wasn't it?
20:03:50 <uche_> * uche_ thinks that's neater than "scanned"
20:03:57 <chimezie> ding ding ding!! you are correct
20:04:02 <shapr> * shapr cheers
20:04:11 <shapr> chimezie: What pistols were added in 0.6? :-)
20:04:31 <chimezie> ouch.. i started in 1.0 so you got me on that one as well
20:04:43 <chimezie> * chimezie is not worthy
20:04:58 <shapr> I started playing CS with 0.5, I think.
20:05:07 <chimezie> your favorite map?
20:05:16 <shapr> Dust, like everyone else in the world.
20:05:55 <chimezie> i hope you mean dust2
20:06:08 <shapr> I've been a fan of the Desert Eagle ever since its release. I'm especially fond of the .50 Action Express.
20:06:28 <shapr> Right, sorry.
20:06:36 <chimezie> that's my fav pistol.. cs_office buy pack: m3 and deagle nothing else
20:07:06 <shapr> Anyway, my left wrist blew out a year or two ago (RSI) and that stopped all my FPS playing. Since then I stick to programming.
20:07:23 <crschmidt> Coolest. Thing. Ever. http://www.livejournal.com/users/brad/2143713.html
20:07:32 <chimezie> well, depending on how much coding/typing you do the latter will do just as much damage (as my consistent wrist pains prove)
20:08:09 <shapr> I switched to a Kinesis contoured keyboard and a custom "I am not a koala" dvorak-derivative layout.
20:08:23 <shapr> All modifier keys are under my thumbs.
20:08:55 <chimezie> * chimezie has gotta run to a notary public.. bbl
20:09:11 <shapr> * shapr runs off to watch a movie with a cute woman.
20:09:13 <sbp> there's never a notary public about when you need one
20:13:23 <jcowan> Actually they are all over the place. In the U.S. every lawyer is one, and there's always at least one at every bank branch.
20:13:48 <sbp> we have none here
20:13:51 <jcowan> * jcowan was a notary for one year so he could work in Registration at his university.
20:14:16 <sbp> [20:55] <sbp> loading a 25MB text file into Firefox
20:14:16 <sbp> [20:55] <sbp> to assess the feasibility of printing the #swhack logs through Lulu
20:14:16 <sbp> [20:56] <sbp> Firefox is basically crashing its ass off
20:14:23 <sbp> Firefox is totally not forgiving me for this
20:14:26 <sbp> crashorama
20:14:33 <Arnia> sbp: Firefox 1.0 or Deer Park?
20:14:36 <sbp> that was quarter of an hour ago
20:14:38 <sbp> 1.0.x
20:16:21 <jcowan> sbp: Wuddayamean, you have none? Every qualified solicitor is a notary, except in the City of London.
20:16:48 <bear_afk> bear_afk is now known as bear
20:17:39 <sbp> really? I didn't know we even had the concept
20:18:20 <Arnia> Yes, and Commissioners of Oaths
20:18:54 <jcowan> Oh yes. The Master of the Faculties (the legal advisor to the Abp. of Canterbury) can also appoint non-lawyer notaries; they must pass a test.
20:19:13 <chimezie> I've often had to run to suspect parts of the neighbourhood just to find one
20:19:30 <chimezie> it's like where's waldo
20:19:49 <jcowan> No bank branches in your nabe, chimezie?
20:19:59 <sbp> nabe. heh
20:20:34 <sbp> hmm, Deer Park loads it within about a minute
20:20:35 <chimezie> there are but when I go the managers (at least those that *are* notary publics) are never there
20:20:41 <chimezie> or they require that you are clientele
20:20:47 <sbp> oh. well it was, now it's struggling a bit
20:21:38 <jcowan> chimezie: that's irritating.
20:22:19 <jcowan> I'm refinancing my mortgage, and so a notary will appear at my house the day after tomorrow.
20:26:00 <sbp> * sbp tries half a year
20:27:30 <sbp> whoo, it worked. just about
20:27:57 <sbp> 1218 pages. great
20:31:20 <sbp> hmm, 1218 is with trimmed lines
20:31:38 <sbp> so it's going to be about 3000 pages for the whole year
20:32:39 <JibberJim> JibberJim has quit (Connection timed out)
20:33:01 <chimezie> chimezie has quit ("going home")
20:36:52 <Arnia> Nice to know we've written a book
20:37:39 <sbp> 7,908,449 words in the log in total
20:38:07 <sbp> I've written 1,693,867 of those
20:38:16 <sbp> you're on 173,026 Arnia
20:40:45 <jcowan> "To say of what is that it is not, or of what is not that it is, is false, while to say of what it is that it is, or of what is not that it is not, is true." --Aristotle, Metaphysics
20:41:05 <parsec_> boohoo
20:43:44 <sbp> "To not state the obvious is not to state the obvious, and to not not state the obvious is not to not state the obvious, while to state the not obvious is to not state the obvious, and to state the obvious is to quote Aristotle."
20:51:41 <jcowan> You gotta realize that Aristotle's "books", so called, are basically the lecture notes taken by his students.
20:59:07 <Arnia> Ok, I've written a lot of words then :/
21:01:00 <bskahan> bskahan has quit ("Leaving")
21:02:07 <parsec_> god bzip is just too slow
21:02:50 <jcowan> Try bzip2 -8, bzip2 -7 etc. until you get sufficient performance.
21:03:00 <parsec_> heh
21:03:01 <parsec_> well
21:03:04 <parsec_> i know that =]
21:03:07 <parsec_> thats not the problem
21:03:10 <parsec_> i need bzip2 -9
21:03:12 <parsec_> for best compression becasue
21:03:14 <parsec_> the llogfile is 700 mb
21:03:21 <parsec_> and you try transwering that over a transatlatnic 10mbit pipe.
21:03:24 <parsec_> its slower than molasis in january.
21:03:25 <parsec_> my friend
21:03:51 <jcowan> Wait now or wait later, then.
21:18:08 <Morbus> http://www.igda.org/sex/
21:20:27 <parsec_> apache2 doesnt resolve ips?
21:20:29 <parsec_> thats nuts
21:20:40 <parsec_> so what if its slow to resolev every IP
21:20:41 <parsec_> i dont are
21:20:42 <parsec_> care
21:21:33 <crschmidt> It certainly can.
21:21:39 <crschmidt> Whether it does or not is based on your settings.
21:25:49 <jcowan> The idea is that you can resolve them at log analysis time after you have boiled down your entries a bit.
21:26:36 <Morbus> ahah: http://www.themovieblog.com/archives/2005/08/fantastic_roger_ebert_quote_about_deuce_bigalow_read_this.html
21:34:57 <thelsdj> http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/16/computer.frenzy.ap/index.html
21:40:15 <Morbus> phenny, tell sbp http://www.secretlair.com/index.php?/clickableculture/entry/second_life_web_tv_network_planned/
21:40:17 <phenny> Morbus: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
21:58:05 <Morbus> Morbus has quit (Remote closed the connection)
22:04:15 <libby> libby has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:48:40 <jcowan> Ittywhonk!
22:48:43 <jcowan> jcowan has left #swhack
22:57:26 <Eimi> Eimi has quit ("Leaving")
23:00:33 <d8uv_> d8uv_ (n=d8uv@66-230-116-94-cdsl-rb1.nwc.acsalaska.net) has joined #swhack
23:00:51 <d8uv_> I am puppysitting. Outside
23:01:01 <d8uv_> Sorry for the hasty retreat
23:01:21 <d8uv_> Oh! Hehe! This is the WRONG DAMN CHANNEL
23:02:26 <sbp> heh, heh
23:07:51 <thelsdj> hrm i should go back to working on my mp3 decoder in C#
23:08:02 <thelsdj> haven't touched it in a while
23:14:32 <lonur> lonur has quit (Remote closed the connection)
23:19:07 <thelsdj> http://www.tuaw.com/2005/08/16/50-ibooks-cause-stampede/ <-- video
23:24:16 <Gromgull> Gromgull has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:37:04 <d8uv_> d8uv_ has quit (Remote closed the connection)
23:37:19 <bear> bear is now known as bear_afk
23:38:54 <parsec_> how do you burn mpeg so that it plays off dvd?
23:38:54 <parsec_> heh
23:41:26 <d8uv_> d8uv_ (n=d8uv@66-230-116-94-cdsl-rb1.nwc.acsalaska.net) has joined #swhack
23:48:27 <thelsdj> parsec_: windows or linux?
23:52:01 <thelsdj> i wonder why thunderbirds adaptive spam filter sucks so much
23:52:19 <thelsdj> been training it for months and its letting through 75% of spam
23:52:34 <thelsdj> i even try resetting it sometimes but never appears to do much better
23:53:36 <parsec_> linux
23:53:37 <parsec_> well
23:53:38 <parsec_> openbsd
23:53:40 <parsec_> =]
23:53:45 <parsec_> i'll be burning it in windows though
23:55:32 <thelsdj> mencoder or transcode to make compatible mpeg then dvdauthor to make dvd structure
23:55:43 <thelsdj> http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Create_a_DVD
23:56:46 <bskahan> bskahan (n=bskahan@dsl254-074-249.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #swhack
23:58:02 <parsec_> heh
23:58:03 <parsec_> i dont want dvd
23:58:05 <parsec_> i just want a vcd
23:58:07 <parsec_> a simple vcd
23:58:10 <parsec_> that will play on any dvd player
23:58:10 <parsec_> heh
23:59:23 <Arnia> (blammo, blammo)
23:59:28 <thelsdj> parsec_: still going to require as many steps
23:59:37 <thelsdj> parsec_: so probaby worth making dvd as its better quality
23:59:56 <parsec_> but its just an mpg