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00:32:16 <Monty> howdy, bkdelong
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02:01:24 <sbp> remember last night d8uv found the stupid picture on Wikipedia:Slash_fiction and added it to Wikipedia:Slash? http://swhack.com/logs/2006-01-15#T04-32-03 if you don't
02:02:03 <sbp> so tonight he went into #wikipedia-en-vandalism and confessed his vandalism
02:02:26 <sbp> and everybody starts berating him for being a jerk and a vandal...
02:02:41 <sbp> ...and then they go, wait a moment, your change was actually quite useful
02:02:59 <sbp> and in the history for the page, someone reverted his change and then actually put the change back
02:03:42 <sbp> so now even the Wikipedia vandalism faction have decided that adding the slashfictionslash image to the slash page and putting "This is a slash." below it was actually enhancing the value of Wikipedia (I don't disagree, but that's pretty hilarious)
02:03:54 <sbp> [01:53] <sbp> I can't believe it's going to be left there. that's so funny
02:03:54 <sbp> [01:53] <sbp> you must be the only vandal ever to be praised for your contribution to Wikipedia
02:04:30 <kpreid> sbp: if you weren't telling the truth, this would be slash fiction slash fiction
02:04:58 <d8uv> kpreid: That's pretty gross
02:05:01 <sbp> well, I could tack on that then d8uv starting kissing the vandalism team
02:05:06 <sbp> which would make it so
02:05:13 <sbp> and eek. meta-slash-fiction
02:05:33 <kpreid> sbp: no, no
02:05:40 <kpreid> slash-fiction-slash fiction
02:06:06 <kpreid> or, to reproduce exactly what you said, slashfictionslash fiction. that is, fiction about the "/"
02:06:14 <kpreid> oh, never mind
02:06:37 <d8uv> Aw I can't stay mad at you kpried. C'mere. *goes to hug kpried, then sticks his finger into kpried's anus*
02:06:49 <sbp> completely paralysing him
02:06:57 <sbp> argh, now I have to explain that. hang on
02:07:42 <sbp> http://www.villagevoice.com/people/0531,savage,66457,24.html
02:07:54 <sbp> the last question on the page
02:08:53 <sbp> [[[
02:08:54 <sbp> Mr. 200 Percent Straight couldn't stop the big, bad masseur from giving him a blowjob because the masseur had his thumb up Mr. 200 Percent Straight's butt. What, is there a system override switch in straight men's butts? Can't . . . move. . . . Thumb . . . in . . . ass. . . . Send . . . help!
02:08:54 <sbp> Come on. I've had my thumb in a few butts, provoking reactions ranging from delight to disgust, but it has never, ever, not once, paralyzed a sex partner or struck him dumb.
02:08:54 <sbp> ]]]
02:09:18 <sbp> and I see. more like slash fiction slash slash?
02:09:31 <sbp> viz slash about the slash of slash fiction
02:09:39 <d8uv> I'll go slash slash slash fiction
02:09:47 <sbp> slash slash?
02:09:56 <sbp> a slash slash is an old dash
02:10:02 <sbp> as we found out yesterday
02:10:13 <sbp> so you mean dash slash fiction, or slash dash fiction?
02:10:21 <d8uv> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interrobang <- Constructively vandalized
02:10:49 <sbp> fixed already
02:11:17 <sbp> now you can't even vandalise wrongly wrongly
02:11:55 <sbp> so your aim should be to vandalise a slash fiction slash like page wrongly wrongly wrongly
02:13:01 <d8uv> Sweet. I just got a message. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:216.67.22.232
02:13:33 <sbp> funny
02:19:19 <d8uv> SO HOW ARE YOU ALL
02:20:13 <sbp> WHAT
02:20:19 <sbp> we're okay, thanks
02:20:26 <sbp> well, I'm not sure about matthewd
02:20:41 <d8uv> * d8uv kills matthewd
02:20:46 <sbp> we're okay, thanks
02:20:50 <d8uv> I'm not sure about him either
02:21:53 <sbp> how strange. I always thought that the bunyip was a cute, cuddly landgoing possum/platypus hybrid-like thing
02:22:06 <sbp> but Wikipedia says they're evil things with blood-curdling cries
02:23:54 <sbp> ooh, it might be a folk memory of the Diprotodont
02:24:56 <sbp> "Unlike Kinder Surprises, the toy is usually an Australian or New Zealand animal, with a leaflet with educational facts and a picture of the animal." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yowie_%28cryptid%29
02:26:50 <d8uv> <- Nothing
02:27:13 <d8uv> Sign over there -> <- Sign over there
02:27:15 <sbp> .pc
02:27:25 <sbp> okay, you're right
02:27:33 <d8uv> Yep
02:27:39 <d8uv> Well DUH
02:28:12 <sbp> | o *bip*
02:28:25 <d8uv> o |
02:28:40 <sbp> | *BIP* o
02:28:47 <d8uv> oh shit
02:28:53 <d8uv> | o
02:28:56 <d8uv> Oh damn
02:29:01 <sbp> go go gadget power shot!
02:29:21 <d8uv> Go eat some coals, smoky!
02:29:32 <sbp> pardon?
02:29:40 <sbp> say, do you have bunyips up in your wilds, d8uv?
02:29:50 <sbp> or equivalent mythological beasts
02:30:50 <d8uv> I do have a couple gryffins.
02:30:57 <d8uv> But they are really small
02:31:04 <d8uv> Like pocket gryffins.
02:31:07 <d8uv> So cute
02:33:40 <d8uv> * d8uv explodes
02:36:19 <sbp> good enough. you should make some facts about them
02:37:37 <d8uv> Hmm I was thinking of that
02:37:55 <d8uv> You know those page-a-day calendars?
02:38:07 <d8uv> The ones that always suck?
02:40:33 <sbp> yep
02:41:03 <d8uv> I was gonna make "The Calendar of Dumb"
02:41:15 <d8uv> And try self-publishing it
02:41:21 <d8uv> and selling it on the internet
02:41:26 <sbp> oh right, I remember you mentioning that in the #d8uv.com backscroll
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02:41:29 <d8uv> I know you'd buy one
02:41:31 <sbp> not a bad idea
02:41:32 <sbp> yeah
02:41:42 <sbp> redders!
03:07:28 <clsn> Probably should cut the new website live sometime soon. Been adding to it.
03:09:08 <sbp> cool!
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03:10:16 <clsn> I'm trying to decide if I should promote everything to be top-level, or keep things in the /mes subdirectory.
03:11:05 <clsn> It's my machine, I suppose I might as well bite the bullet and go at root.
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05:26:50 <deltab> new IPA letter: http://www.alphabit.net/blog/2005/12/with-sound-from-africa-phonetic.html
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05:58:48 <sbp> awesome
05:59:49 <sbp> clsn: still no link to Yf Rgalin?
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07:11:36 <deltab> .cp apple
07:11:39 <phenny> Sorry, no results found for 'apple'.
07:15:47 <deltab> .cp approximately equivalent
07:15:49 <phenny> Sorry, no results found for 'approximately equivalent'.
07:15:55 <deltab> .cp approximat
07:15:58 <phenny> 2245: APPROXIMATELY EQUAL TO (≅)
07:16:01 <phenny> 2246: APPROXIMATELY BUT NOT ACTUALLY EQUAL TO (≆)
07:16:04 <phenny> 2247: NEITHER APPROXIMATELY NOR ACTUALLY EQUAL TO (≇) [...]
07:19:56 <Mike_L> where can I find a Windows binary of emacs 21.4
07:20:15 <d8uv> Mike_L: Why are you looking for warez?
07:20:24 <d8uv> This is not the network for that!
07:21:30 <Mike_L> hehe nm... what I'm looking for doesn't exist
07:21:53 <Mike_L> * Mike_L is taking the plunge and learning Emacs
07:22:06 <bjoern_> .gc windows binary for emacs
07:22:08 <phenny> windows binary for emacs: 739,000
07:22:24 <Mike_L> after all these years of shunning its multitudinous modes, I've finally been convinced to learn it by http://opal.cabochon.com/~stevey/blog-rants/effective-emacs.html
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07:51:29 <Mike_L> what is a madewok?
07:51:42 <bjoern_> .w madewok
07:51:45 <phenny> I couldn't find madewok in WordNet.
07:51:50 <bjoern_> .w wok
07:51:53 <phenny> wok 1. pan with a convex bottom
07:53:11 <deltab> I'm guessing it's someone who made a wok, and is proud enough of the fact to name themself after it
08:20:08 <Mike_L> .w tamale
08:20:11 <phenny> tamale 1. corn and cornmeal dough stuffed with a meat mixture then wrapped in corn husks and steamed
08:20:49 <Mike_L> phenny: tamale 2. a city in northern Ghana
08:22:40 <Mike_L> * Mike_L sleeps
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10:52:41 <xover> phenny: ask crschmidt You ever looked at Perl on Symbian?
10:52:44 <phenny> xover: I'll pass that on when crschmidt is around.
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11:47:05 <bjoern_> .w locust
11:47:08 <phenny> locust 1. migratory grasshoppers of warm regions having short antennae
11:47:11 <phenny> locust 2. hardwood from any of various locust trees
11:47:15 <phenny> locust 3. any of various hard-wooded trees of the family Leguminosae [...]
11:52:17 <crschmidt> xover: No, as far as I know it's never been officially released by Nokia. Also, I hate Perl.
11:52:19 <phenny> crschmidt: 10:52Z <xover> ask crschmidt You ever looked at Perl on Symbian?
11:59:04 <jessica> phenny, tell xover that crschmidt used to love Perl, but Perl ran off and broke his heart, so now he hates Perl and does only Python. It's very sad.
11:59:07 <phenny> jessica: I'll pass that on when xover is around.
12:01:33 <xover> heh heh
12:01:36 <phenny> xover: 11:59Z <jessica> tell xover that crschmidt used to love Perl, but Perl ran off and broke his heart, so now he hates Perl and does only Python. It's very sad.
12:01:56 <crschmidt> I don't *never* do perl. I do OpenGuides stuff, which is Perl.
12:02:15 <jessica> . . .
12:02:25 <crschmidt> But I highly prefer Python over anything, PHP over Perl, and use Perl only when some suitably large project is not written in one of those first two.
12:02:27 <jessica> I'd make fun of your grammar but I think it's just lousy syntax.
12:03:09 <xover> Jarkko seems to be aiming for the next maint rev of Perl proper to be what gets pushed as their Perl SDK, modula proper Symbian-specific interfaces.
12:03:31 <xover> Out of curiosity, what turned you off Perl?
12:05:05 <crschmidt> Primarily the fact that my first project with Perl turned out to be such a hellhole of wasted effort.
12:05:10 <crschmidt> (LiveJournal)
12:05:16 <Jibbler> heh
12:05:28 <xover> That Perl's "fault" or the project?
12:05:33 <crschmidt> The project.
12:05:35 <crschmidt> Entirely.
12:05:38 <xover> right
12:05:44 <crschmidt> I don't have any specific complaints about the language itself.
12:06:00 <Jibbler> perl belongs in small standalone scripts, imho. making entire applications out of it is bonkers
12:06:04 <crschmidt> I do find it harder to get things done in, and less intuitive, than PHP, for example.
12:06:14 <xover> * xover boggles…
12:06:28 <crschmidt> Primarily because of PHP's documentation, I think.
12:06:54 <xover> As an aside, only slightly apropos, I'm still waiting for the day someone shows me actual readable, well-structured, and grokkable Python.
12:06:55 <Jibbler> perl's documentation isn't exactly great either
12:06:58 <Jibbler> java, however, rocks :)
12:07:05 <crschmidt> PHP is a crappy language as far as elegance goes --
12:07:21 <crschmidt> but it's a well-documented, low-startup-cost language, at least from my POV.
12:07:33 <xover> * xover looks menacingly at Jibbler…
12:08:44 <crschmidt> for the record, I refuse to even touch anything that runs in Java.
12:08:50 <xover> heh heh
12:08:57 <Jibbler> oh, you don't use ebay then? :)
12:09:01 <crschmidt> Nope.
12:09:10 <Jibbler> a world i cannot imagine!
12:09:11 <crschmidt> But that wasn't my point, as you well know. :p
12:09:29 <crschmidt> I used ebay once, 3 years ago.
12:09:43 <crschmidt> But anyway, I meant as far as code goes.
12:10:00 <crschmidt> I run Jibbler's reminderbot, and I feel dirty every time I have to start it up.
12:10:30 <crschmidt> I once hacked FOAF support into piespy, and it makes me cry to this day...
12:10:41 <crschmidt> becasue it's the only reason I can't say "I've never written a single line of Java code" honestly.
12:10:45 <Jibbler> well, that's FOAF for you :)
12:11:00 <Jibbler> i am sorry if i have caused you pain :)
12:12:37 <BeHappy_> crschmidt, i'm forced to java by university... at least for one class my teacher permits me to use python.. and he even dont know it!
12:13:21 <BeHappy_> and the funniest thing is, half teachers of classes i've attended to, say that java is crap
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13:43:21 <bjoern_> In a RELAX NG schema I want to say the following: If attribute a has value x, attribute b must have value y; if attribute does not have value x, attribute b can be anything (say, any Nmtoken). Is there an easy way to do this?
13:44:47 <bjoern_> There are actually a lot of a => b constraints, the only way I can think of would be a choice where the values for attribute a are listed in <except>
13:45:12 <bjoern_> (or doing this in the leaves as choice)
13:45:51 <bjoern_> What I'd like to have is a feature where I can say "If you go into this branch of the choice, don't look at the other choices"
13:46:03 <bjoern_> As I understand it, <notAllowed/> doesn't have this effect
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13:47:41 <bjoern_> A similar problem would be to validate URI attributes; you have regexps for n schemes, but there are at least n+1 schemes, so you want leave URIs using the n+1 scheme unchecked, but check all the others
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14:31:35 <clsn> phenny, tell spb The link to Yf Rgalin is there, with the same url as before, and with links to it from the constructed languages page.
14:31:38 <phenny> clsn: I'll pass that on when spb is around.
14:35:20 <kpreid> spb?
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14:42:37 <clsn> I did that again, didn't I?
14:42:54 <clsn> I tend to get the initials in the wrong order.
14:43:01 <clsn> Hey, it's early.
14:43:08 <clsn> phenny, tell sbp The link to Yf Rgalin is there, with the same url as before, and with links to it from the constructed languages page.
14:43:10 <phenny> clsn: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
14:43:15 <clsn> Thanks.
14:43:36 <clsn> (Thanks kpreid for catching it, that is. I send phenny thanks in monthly installments)
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16:07:29 <Monty> hi tav
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16:50:18 <sbp> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4616700.stm
16:50:21 <phenny> sbp: 14:43Z <clsn> tell sbp The link to Yf Rgalin is there, with the same url as before, and with links to it from the constructed languages page.
16:50:26 <sbp> rating websites in 50 milliseconds
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16:51:48 <Monty> welcome, madewokherd
16:52:21 <kpreid> Monty: calc 50 / 1000 / 60 / 60 / 24 * 9240000000
16:52:22 <Monty> kpreid: 5347.222222222222
16:52:56 <kpreid> Monty: calc 5348 / 365
16:52:57 <Monty> kpreid: 14.652054794520549
16:55:14 <deltab> phenny should spellcheck nicks
16:56:09 <sbp> phenny: tell wmf http://it.slashdot.org/it/06/01/16/0615247.shtml
16:56:11 <bjoern_> phenny, tell wellatleastshechecksfortoolongnicknamesifiremembercorrectly nothing...
16:56:11 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when wmf is around.
16:56:13 <phenny> bjoern_: that nickname is too long
16:56:21 <sbp> deltab: though there is an spb, so that would be difficult in this case
16:57:23 <deltab> not in this channel, though
16:57:58 <deltab> anyway, it'd only have to detect possible confusion
16:58:07 <deltab> like google does
16:58:22 <bjoern_> With parrot you could just grab the latest PSI:: mind reading module from CPAN and use it as appropriate...
16:58:59 <kpreid> "Did you mean: jpreid"
17:01:25 <sbp> oh, I see
17:01:39 <sbp> that's a good idea
17:16:22 <clsn> hi sbp
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17:17:11 <sbp> hey clsn
17:17:43 <sbp> hmm, I still don't see a link to Yf Rgalin on the front page
17:17:44 <clsn> * clsn looks up PSI::ESP.
17:17:51 <clsn> Not on front page.... You think it should be?
17:18:17 <clsn> It's under languages->constructed languages. Didn't think it necesarily warranted inclusion in "frequently sought pages" but maybe you're right.
17:18:31 <sbp> yeah
17:18:37 <sbp> also, what's the etymology of Shoulson?
17:20:24 <clsn> I think it's from "shaul" (Hebrew for Saul) plus "son" (germanic), i.e. son of saul.
17:20:39 <clsn> I have relatives in Israel who hebraicized their name to Ben-Shaul.
17:22:41 <sbp> phenny: ask jcowan if he has any ideas on http://swhack.com/logs/2006-01-16#T13-43-21
17:22:43 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when jcowan is around.
17:22:53 <sbp> clsn: oh, cool
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17:23:45 <clsn> And also all kinds of variant spellings... schulson, shaulson, etc etc...
17:25:28 <clsn> woo, ego-surfing and found this: http://www.goertzel.org/blog/archive/2005_03_12_bnrg_archive.html cool to be remembered.
17:25:42 <clsn> Though I also re-connected with Ben when he came to the Lojban community.
17:39:18 <Arnia> Arnia (n=jgeldart@1-40-101-159.adsl.legend.co.uk) has joined #swhack
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17:52:57 <Morbus> .
17:52:59 <phenny> Morbus: 05:37Z <sbp> ask Morbus whether serving .htaccess files poses any security risk. since Apache makes .ht* 403 by default I presume there's a reason for that, but I can't find *rationale* for it. hiding the filenames of password files doesn't seem like sufficient rationale to me
17:54:55 <Morbus> phenny, tell sbp the *rationale* is simply that it's not information that ever has a core *reason* for being served publically, and it's safer to hide it then to just let it fly by. crypt, as you know, *can* be easily broken (the prime reason we have /etc/shadow now), so allowing .htpasswd (which is the "recommended", but certainly not a *required* name) to be publically accessible was deemed as dangerous as allowing /etc/passwd to be as well.
17:54:57 <phenny> Morbus: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
17:56:31 <sbp> wow, BBC News--they've found a portrait of Lady Jane Grey! in someone's house in South London. heh
17:56:34 <phenny> sbp: 17:54Z <Morbus> tell sbp the *rationale* is simply that it's not information that ever has a core *reason* for being served publically, and it's safer to hide it then to just let it fly by. crypt, as you know, *can* be easily broken (the prime reason we have /etc/shadow now), so allowing .htpasswd (which is the "recommended", but certainly not a *required* name) to be publically accessible was deemed as dangerous as allowing /etc/passwd to be as well.
17:57:13 <sbp> Morbus: I wouldn't be serving .htpasswd files. I don't even put them under the docroot
17:57:20 <sbp> it's purely the .htaccess files I'm concerned about
17:57:27 <sbp> and I think there's useful information in there
17:57:33 <Morbus> yeah, and there's nothing in there that would be entirely useful
17:57:48 <sbp> really? it's nice to see how people have set up their servers
17:57:57 <sbp> I have quite a few bits of mod_rewrite magic in mine, for example
17:58:02 <Morbus> besides, perhaps, the path to an .htpasswd, but if someone can get to the non-accessible path, you got bigger proplems than measly .htaccess perms.
17:58:08 <sbp> and just recently, a rule for serving .htaccess files :-)
17:58:16 <sbp> aye
17:58:31 <sbp> especially since they'd have to have privs
17:58:41 <sbp> (unless it was improperly permissioned)
17:59:32 <sbp> ah, here we go: http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/news/story/0,11711,1687349,00.html
17:59:45 <sbp> http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/arts/2006/01/16/newjanegrey87345.jpg
18:00:17 <tav> * tav dances
18:00:31 <maxkelley> * maxkelley dances along
18:00:57 <sbp> interesting: "Mr Foley suspects the painting under consideration to be a near-contemporary copy of a lost original. The practice of copying portraits in order to put images into circulation was common."
18:01:00 <sbp> hi tav, max
18:01:06 <maxkelley> hey sbp
18:03:58 <tav> * tav strokes sbp
18:04:11 <KragenSitaker> who's jane grey?
18:04:48 <maxkelley> KragenSitaker: A lady named jane.
18:04:57 <KragenSitaker> maxkelley: thanks
18:05:11 <Arnia> KragenSitaker: Queen of one town for fifteen days in the 16th century
18:05:14 <phenny> Arnia: 15 Jan 16:18Z <jcowan> tell Arnia to add Paul Kay's paper on non-productive patterns of coining at http://www.icsi.berkeley.edu/~kay/coining.pdf to his queue.
18:05:14 <maxkelley> anytime.
18:05:18 <phenny> Arnia: 15 Jan 16:20Z <jcowan> tell Arnia particularly section 3 on caused motion ("They laughed him off the stage" good, "She screamed him under the table" bad).
18:05:30 <sbp> Queen of England for nine days in 1553
18:05:36 <Arnia> Was it nine?
18:05:47 <Arnia> * Arnia wonders where the number 15 sprung to mind from
18:05:47 <sbp> there's some dispute, but nine is the normally cited figure
18:06:00 <sbp> thirteen is the other commonly touted figure
18:06:04 <Arnia> sbp: Well, technically not all of England accepted her
18:06:34 <sbp> technically not all of England accepted William I either
18:06:42 <sbp> Edgar Aetheling was chosen by the witan, indeed
18:07:26 <Arnia> True...
18:08:05 <Arnia> And England also had two palatines in the north which muddy the waters of command and control a bit
18:08:29 <sbp> yeah, 'twas an understandably turbulent time
18:09:21 <sbp> so I'm wondering about transferring the new portrait image to Wikipedia
18:09:39 <sbp> reading http://users.guardian.co.uk/help/article/0,12908,933909,00.html about the permissions of Guardian material, it seems that it's all copyrighted as normal
18:09:53 <sbp> not sure about Free Use
18:10:18 <sbp> Fair Use, even
18:10:39 <sbp> there's also a permissions contact address, but if it's anything like the British Library and certain other places...
18:12:25 <Arnia> Guardian content is up ad infinitum right?
18:12:32 <Arnia> So can't you just link to the article?
18:13:29 <sbp> yeah, though it'd be nice to actually include the portrait right up at the top right
18:13:43 <Arnia> Yeah
18:14:37 <d8uv> Morningz
18:14:42 <Morbus> eh oh, d8uv
18:15:24 <sbp> added a link, at any rate
18:15:29 <sbp> ehyup d8uv
18:15:50 <d8uv> WHY CAN'T YOU SAY "GOOD MORNING" LIKE NORMAL PEOPLE
18:16:02 <Morbus> well, it's afternoon here.
18:16:04 <Morbus> that'd be lying.
18:16:06 <KragenSitaker> so the gplv3 looks pretty good so far. haven't finished reading it yet.
18:16:19 <sbp> ooh
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18:16:23 <sbp> see historical photos in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Image_description_page#Fair_use_rationale
18:16:33 <sbp> it easily comes under those definitions
18:17:04 <KragenSitaker> http://gplv3.fsf.org/
18:18:06 <jsled> What a logo!
18:19:09 <Arnia> Only thing that annoys me more than people using Plone Default without thought is people using Plone Default and managing to break it
18:19:19 <Arnia> * Arnia grumbles to himself
18:22:01 <Morbus> and how they pasted a word wrapped text in there and now it's all br'd ugily.
18:24:26 <sbp> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:LadyJaneGrey-Streatham.jpg
18:24:31 <KragenSitaker> morbus: that helps with running "diff" between the current version and later ones
18:25:01 <KragenSitaker> i jsut finished reading essentially all of it. the major changes are: 1. it's a lot clearer and explains a lot of things that are now relevant;
18:25:10 <Morbus> i have no problem with them pasting a word wrapped text file.
18:25:15 <Morbus> just pre the damn thing or something.
18:25:21 <Morbus> or turn off automatic html fuckuppering.
18:25:44 <clsn> Ugh. Do something about the bad wrapping, yes.
18:26:07 <KragenSitaker> oh, you probably aren't using the linearize bookmarklet
18:26:17 <Morbus> nor should i have to.
18:26:19 <KragenSitaker> so you're seeing it in that single narrow column
18:26:35 <KragenSitaker> 2. in particular, it elucidates the definition of what software it thinks is part of the combined work.
18:26:44 <sbp> there: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Jane_Grey
18:26:48 <Morbus> does it clear up the idea of embedded modules?
18:26:59 <Morbus> like, say, a theme system for a GPL'd piece of software?
18:27:06 <Morbus> er, not a system. but a theme theme.
18:27:24 <Morbus> sbp: i think you mean 2006.
18:27:39 <Morbus> yer caption is wrong.
18:29:07 <sbp> nuts, thanks
18:29:54 <sbp> 18:29, 16 January 2006 Sbp m (Correcting a typo: 2005 -> 2006 (thanks Morbus).)
18:29:54 <sbp> 18:26, 16 January 2006 Sbp (Adding the new portrait.)
18:29:54 <sbp> 18:15, 16 January 2006 Sbp (Link to a Guardian article about the new portrait.)
18:30:22 <Morbus> yay. i've been immortalized.
18:30:39 <sbp> heh, heh
18:30:45 <sbp> it'll be interesting to see what happens to it
18:31:12 <crschmidt> Have I ever mentioned that I hate sites that Uppercase my name?
18:31:20 <crschmidt> I am not "Crschmidt"!
18:31:21 <Morbus> that's a known limitation.
18:31:26 <Morbus> of mediawiki.
18:31:37 <crschmidt> Morbus: and? I still hate it :)
18:31:42 <Morbus> :)
18:31:46 <Morbus> you're like brian d foy
18:31:52 <Morbus> that guy goes bonkers when people get it wrong.
18:32:03 <crschmidt> heh.
18:32:07 <crschmidt> I'm not that bad, it's just dumb.
18:32:16 <Morbus> http://www252.pair.com/comdog/style.html
18:32:32 <sbp> what the heck
18:32:40 <sbp> someone filled in my shoe size on my user page
18:32:42 <sbp> hilarious
18:32:43 <Morbus> http://www252.pair.com/comdog/style_uses.html
18:33:09 <sbp> someone using an Alaskan IP address
18:33:14 <sbp> I AM LOOKING AT YOU D8UV
18:37:44 <clsn> sbp: OK, "fonts" section now becoming filled in, including page about my own fonts, with links.
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18:40:36 <bjoern_> hmm, say you have a character class like [a-z]; this is really just a shorthand for a choice 'a' or 'b' or 'c' ...
18:40:36 <bjoern_> what would you call the process by which such a character class is transformed into the equivalent choice?
18:40:36 <bjoern_> hmm, canonicalization maybe?
18:41:36 <clsn> expansion?
18:41:41 <raxor> raxor (n=chatzill@216.116.113.90) has joined #swhack
18:41:42 <jsled> I don't know. Is the "choice" form the canonical one?
18:41:53 <bjoern_> It's the "simpler" form
18:42:18 <raxor> #svg!
18:42:21 <bjoern_> no, expansion would be more like replacing references to other symbols in the grammar by their right hand side
18:42:24 <raxor> z/#svg!/#swhack!/
18:42:24 <sbp> expansion sounds better than canonicalisation: who's to say which form is the canonical? [a-z] is certainly more compact
18:42:28 <bjoern_> raxor!
18:42:29 <raxor> lol
18:42:30 <sbp> raxor!
18:42:31 <sbp> phenny!
18:42:33 <phenny> sbp!
18:42:55 <raxor> phenny!
18:42:57 <phenny> raxor!
18:43:08 <Morbus> marsha marsha marsha!
18:43:15 <clsn> Janet!
18:43:20 <Morbus> Great Scott!
18:43:39 <Morbus> Brad!
18:43:41 <bjoern_> Well, I'd say which form is the canonical... it's my API after all...
18:43:43 <Morbus> (Rather!)
18:44:25 <jsled> Dan!
18:45:27 <KragenSitaker> 3. it also has provisions for preserving users' freedom under DRM; it looks like it's well thought out
18:47:28 <KragenSitaker> morbus: it does have more detailed stuff about embedded modules, but i haven't thought about what it says in detail, so i'm not sure what it says about things like theme copyrights.
18:47:47 <KragenSitaker> 4. it has more license compatibility hacks
18:51:40 <KragenSitaker> 5. in particular, it is compatible with the AFPL, which tackles the Server Problem.
18:51:59 <jsled> The Server Problem?
18:52:33 <Morbus> that running code on a server is distributing it, I blieve.
18:52:42 <KragenSitaker> not exactly
18:52:45 <KragenSitaker> but basically.
18:53:00 <KragenSitaker> you know. i can write a GPL program, and if you modify it, you can let me use your modified version as long as you keep it on your server.
18:54:00 <bjoern_> .gc trivialize
18:54:02 <phenny> trivialize: 468,000
18:54:09 <bloodymike> bloodymike has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep")
18:55:06 <KragenSitaker> the AFPL hack doesn't try to claim that running code on a server constitutes distribution. the GPL has a clause that prohibits you from removing or disabling any program function that displays the GPL; the AFPL analogously has a clause that prohibits you from removing or disabling any program function that sends the source code of the currently running version to the user.
18:55:08 <lilo> [Global Notice] Hi all. It's worth noting that the Free Software Foundation's GPLv3 draft is now available for reading and comment on http://gplv3.fsf.org/comments/ .... channel #gplv3 is available for discussion. Thanks!
18:55:38 <KragenSitaker> oh, apparently there's a #gplv3
19:01:51 <Arnia> Arnia has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:03:06 <d8uv> Oh fuck I was going to go in there and change the topic to MIT FOREVER and run, but Lilo's in there
19:04:41 <Morbus> heh, heh.
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19:18:01 <bjoern_> sbp, seems you were right regarding character class subtractions in XML schema... it seems to be there, although rather subtle...
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20:04:17 <zool_> zool_ is now known as zool
20:05:07 <sbp> gotta run
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20:16:44 <bjoern_> Monty, raxor wants to talk to you.
20:16:45 <Monty> gotta run slow?
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20:21:31 <raxor> Monty, my time is being wasted?
20:21:32 <Monty> ... 34.5?
20:21:43 <raxor> Probably only about 10 hours so far
20:21:50 <raxor> Not that much Monty
20:21:57 <Monty> ok then I tend to bother, but it is: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=6564611&type=product&id=1077630481064
20:22:29 <bjoern_> Monty, I think MotleyBot has one of those.
20:22:29 <Monty> der Mutter
20:22:31 <raxor> While I agree that charging my laptop on the go is a good idea Monty, my issue really has to do with networking
20:22:32 <Monty> .gc trivialize
20:22:35 <phenny> trivialize: 468,000
20:22:39 <MotleyBot> Think you can see who is weirder, monty or motleybot ?
20:22:43 <Monty> can you know that bad, it's well thought out by installing ubuntu and covers sth
20:23:12 <raxor> Good point Monty-- ubutntu might help-- though I have always been a knoppix guy myself
20:23:13 <Monty> (your time)
20:23:24 <raxor> So you are saying I am wasting my own time Monty?
20:23:24 <Monty> Does that suggest anything else which belongs to you ?
20:23:30 <raxor> lol
20:23:45 <raxor> No, Monty... I suppose my time is an accurate description
20:23:46 <Monty> more compact
20:23:53 <bjoern_> that too Monty.
20:23:58 <Monty> OK. Have I think there's also re-connected with them under those Another World Is Blossoming pictures asap
20:24:13 <raxor> So Monty you are saying I could make my time moore compact and eliminate networking issues by using Ubuntu?
20:24:14 <Monty> Is it important to you that your time moore compact and eliminate networking issues by using ubuntu ?
20:24:34 <raxor> Yes Monty, what do you think we've been discussing?
20:24:35 <Monty> Tischdecke
20:24:45 <raxor> .gc Tischdecke
20:24:48 <phenny> Tischdecke: 645,000
20:24:51 <raxor> hmm
20:24:55 <bjoern_> Who taught Monty german?
20:24:58 <Monty> xylophone's ecclesiastical roundabout twists sugar's watery honey!
20:25:04 <raxor> what is Tischdecke Monty?
20:25:05 <Monty> Ugh. Do something !#esp?
20:25:10 <bjoern_> MotleyBot, was that you? Why would you teach Monty German?
20:25:13 <Monty> german the permissions contact address, but not 'smallest'
20:25:15 <raxor> They won't know Monty!!
20:25:15 <Monty> Lets discuss further why your own time monty .
20:25:19 <MotleyBot> bjoern_: Teach how to use it instead of german language.
20:25:37 <bjoern_> MotleyBot, ok, for a start, Tischdecke is tablecloth in english
20:25:54 <schepers> schepers (n=schepers@cpe-066-057-015-168.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #swhack
20:25:59 <raxor> Monty, we've been discussing German tableclothes?
20:26:00 <MotleyBot> bjoern_: Lots of interesting people -- including the author of a use of existing standards and components as long as you attempt to give me the highlights were the only icon i get a start.
20:26:00 <Monty> gotta run slow?
20:26:18 <raxor> No Monty, I have to run fast! fast fast fast!!! Don't you get it?!
20:26:19 <Monty> Janet!
20:26:38 <raxor> uh?
20:26:41 <bjoern_> Her name was Lola, actually, Monty.
20:26:44 <Monty> ombudsman's NBDuckBot's passages fondles URLs's tenth persona!
20:26:50 <raxor> Monty, I have no idea who Janet is
20:26:53 <Monty> my PB, cords, gadgets, a theme system for personal days.
20:27:02 <crschmidt> Monty: status
20:27:03 <Monty> You create sexual organs.
20:27:08 <raxor> lol
20:27:20 <bjoern_> @google fight "Janet runs" "Lola runs" "Lola rennt"
20:27:24 <raxor> bjoern_, you are right... this is amazingly helpful
20:27:28 <supybot> bjoern_: Janet runs: 160000, Lola runs: 36300, Lola rennt: 21800
20:27:48 <bjoern_> hmm, maybe Monty is not so confused after all.
20:27:50 <Monty> prefers knickers, apparently.
20:27:51 <raxor> @supybot 90210
20:27:52 <supybot> raxor: Error: The "Supybot" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "90210" in it. Try "list Supybot" to see the commands in the "Supybot" plugin.
20:28:03 <raxor> @supybot weather 90210
20:28:04 <supybot> raxor: Error: The "Supybot" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "weather" in it. Try "list Supybot" to see the commands in the "Supybot" plugin.
20:28:06 <bjoern_> Monty, stats
20:28:06 <Monty> I have a vocabulary of 1751 words, 18 reminders pending, 50 outstanding welcome messages, seen 9578 different nicks and I was born on Fri Nov 25 09:35:58 GMT 2005
20:28:10 <raxor> @weather 90210
20:28:11 <supybot> raxor: The current temperature in Beverly Hills, California (90210) Conditions & is 62°F (11:51 AM PST on January 16, 2006). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 22%. Dew Point: 23°F. Pressure: 30.29 in 1026 hPa. Visibility: 10.0 miles 16.1 kilometers.
20:28:23 <bjoern_> @wunder Mannheim
20:28:25 <supybot> bjoern_: The current temperature in Mannheim, Germany is 26°F (9:20 PM CET on January 16, 2006). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 100%. Dew Point: 26°F. Windchill: 23°F. Pressure: 30.09 in 1019 hPa. Visibility: 3.1 miles 5.0 kilometers.
20:28:35 <raxor> yikes
20:28:42 <raxor> @weather 92373
20:28:44 <supybot> raxor: The current temperature in Redlands, California (92373) Conditions & is 59°F (11:55 AM PST on January 16, 2006). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 13%. Dew Point: 6°F. Pressure: 30.31 in 1026 hPa. Visibility: 50.0 miles 80.4 kilometers. Wind Advisory in effect until 4 PM PST this afternoon...
20:28:44 <bjoern_> @math convert 23 F to C
20:28:45 <supybot> bjoern_: -5.0
20:29:22 <raxor> @weather Monty
20:29:24 <supybot> raxor: The current temperature in Monty Harer Airstrip, South Dakota (57420) Conditions & is 26°F (1:55 PM CST on January 16, 2006). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 75%. Dew Point: 19°F. Windchill: 10°F. Pressure: 29.86 in 1011 hPa. Visibility: 10.0 miles 16.1 kilometers. Wind Advisory in effect until 6 PM CST /5 PM MST/ this afternoon...
20:29:25 <Monty> hm. you know if there
20:29:27 <Monty> no, expansion sounds good, but nine is hitting the Americans were officially called
20:29:38 <bjoern_> What's the weather in MotleyBot land like? Does supybot know?
20:29:45 <MotleyBot> Supybot, motleybot to motleybot.
20:29:46 <supybot> MotleyBot: Error: "motleybot" is not a valid command.
20:29:53 <MotleyBot> supybot: Is motleybot a motleybot?
20:29:54 <supybot> MotleyBot: Error: "Is" is not a valid command.
20:30:01 <MotleyBot> supybot: Error: "a" is not valid.
20:30:02 <supybot> MotleyBot: Error: "Error:" is not a valid command.
20:30:09 <bjoern_> hehe
20:30:09 <MotleyBot> supybot: Error: "a" is not valid.
20:30:10 <supybot> MotleyBot: Error: "Error:" is not a valid command.
20:30:14 <raxor> lol
20:30:17 <MotleyBot> supybot: Error: "a" is not valid.
20:30:18 <supybot> MotleyBot: Error: "Error:" is not a valid command.
20:30:25 <MotleyBot> supybot: Error: "a" is not valid.
20:30:25 <supybot> MotleyBot: You've given me 5 invalid commands within the last minute; I'm now ignoring you for 10 minutes.
20:30:31 <Morbus> lol
20:30:34 <MotleyBot> supybot: So, you see the commands in a minute.
20:30:49 <raxor> supybot++
20:31:02 <raxor> @karma supybot
20:31:03 <supybot> raxor: Karma for "supybot" has been increased 11 times and decreased 48 times for a total karma of -37.
20:31:13 <bjoern_> @karma
20:31:13 <supybot> bjoern_: Highest karma: "sbp" (19), "monty" (8), and "crschmidt" (8). Lowest karma: "supybot" (-37), "sh1mmer" (-24), and "c++" (-2). You (bjoern_) are ranked 6 out of 123.
20:31:15 <Monty> @math convert 23 F to tonight?
20:31:16 <supybot> Monty: Error: tonight? is not a valid unit.
20:31:17 <Monty> malty shake-up?!
20:31:25 <bjoern_> @MotleyBot++
20:31:32 <MotleyBot> Hey motleybot, it's monty!
20:31:34 <Monty> Please don't excrete pornographic NBDuckBot!
20:31:47 <raxor> @supybot++
20:31:58 <raxor> @karma
20:31:59 <supybot> raxor: Error: TypeError: unsubscriptable object
20:32:01 <crschmidt> phenny: tell Motleybot that Phenny and monty are doing the supybot again
20:32:04 <phenny> crschmidt: I'll pass that on when motleybot is around.
20:32:04 <Monty> tav: you simply can't carry around my laptop
20:32:17 <raxor> ?
20:32:20 <crschmidt> @echo Motleybot and Monty are my heroes
20:32:21 <Monty> yikes
20:32:22 <supybot> Motleybot and Monty are my heroes
20:32:23 <Monty> Fair Use, even better app
20:32:33 <MotleyBot> supybot: I believe i need to see your in the heroes section.
20:32:35 <phenny> MotleyBot: 20:32Z <crschmidt> tell MotleyBot that Phenny and monty are doing the supybot again
20:32:39 <Monty> megaphone's homosexual schema was figure's techroam's real estate.
20:32:47 <MotleyBot> phenny: Supybot: tell phenny to help too, and expand ideas where other games come up with monty.
20:32:52 <Monty> http://clwww.essex.ac.uk/w3c/corpus_ling/content/corpora/list/private/brown/brown.html
20:38:56 <Morbus> sbp, what happened to WPIT?
20:39:04 <Morbus> I just got a zillion rss items with double encoding.
20:39:36 <Morbus> annoying, i don't know if this is from the planet, or your direct fdeed.
20:39:59 <crschmidt> I haven't changed anything in the planet setup
20:40:09 <crschmidt> but the content seems to be double encoded there
20:40:22 <Morbus> alright, so i'm probably subbing to there then.
20:41:37 <crschmidt> wonder how/why it broke
20:41:51 <crschmidt> oh, it broke on Dec 18th
20:42:04 <crschmidt> it seems
20:42:42 <Morbus> hrm.
20:42:46 <Morbus> yeah, those were my timestamps.
20:42:50 <Morbus> are those in the current rss feed?
20:42:59 <crschmidt> yep.
20:43:32 <Morbus> due to a huge "num items in feed" or because the planet really saw them as being new?
20:43:56 <crschmidt> They're in the feed on Dec 18th. They were new that day.
20:44:06 <crschmidt> The entries were really a lot older than that - the newest is from October.
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21:00:01 <JibberJim> Balderdash!
21:00:04 <JibberJim> Piffle!
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21:04:00 <JibberJim> .ety "ninety-nine"
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23:49:39 <d8uv> http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/cashcab/cashcab.html <- Awesome low-budget game show that noone knows of.
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23:56:31 <Arnia> phenny, tell jcowan thanks for the link. I'm hopefully going to read it later on tonight
23:56:33 <phenny> Arnia: I'll pass that on when jcowan is around.
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