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01:39:03 <KragenSitaker> so i want to estimate the entropy of a user-entered password
01:39:13 <KragenSitaker> that is, how hard it would be for an attacker to guess. quantitatively.
01:39:57 <KragenSitaker> what's the thing to use for that?
01:48:53 <clsn> bleah... That's a toughie. Maybe try compressing it?
01:49:17 <clsn> Or more likely, append it to a big text and compress that, and measure how much the compression grew over the size of the text compressed without the password.
01:49:26 <kpreid> I know there are libraries for the purpose, but I don't know names.
01:49:53 <clsn> But that's an information-theoretic kind of thing. Someone's logonid might be relatively high entropy but easy to guess.
01:50:15 <sbp> it also depends on what kind of attacks people are using
01:50:26 <sbp> a dictionary attack might be language or culture dependent
01:50:48 <clsn> i.e. the entropy measure does not necessarily correlate with difficulty cracking.
01:51:04 <sbp> with a brute force attack, entropy isn't really going to matter much--although a password using the full ASCII printable range might take longer than [a-z]+ if it's a directed brute force search
01:51:25 <sbp> yeah. I like the compression idea
01:52:08 <sbp> though, thinking about it, tabled compressors don't tend to work well on small data like passwords
01:52:47 <clsn> That's why you need to concatenate it to a larger body of text.
01:52:49 <sbp> (oh, whoops, missed the big-text-appending idea)
01:52:51 <sbp> yeah, sorry
01:53:15 <clsn> Yah. The redundancy in the text helps, so if it's a common word or something the text will have it.
01:53:30 <sbp> perhaps it could be appended to a big dictionary
01:53:41 <sbp> that way, you'll be set for the dictionary attack! :-)
01:53:59 <clsn> Heh.
01:58:45 <sbp> cool: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4723680.stm ("India's feisty untouchable woman")
01:58:52 <jetscreamer> * jetscreamer scrolls up for the actual answer to the question....
01:58:58 <jetscreamer> hmmm
01:58:59 <est> cant touch this!
01:59:23 <sbp> 'When she takes the podium on 27 February to speak at the United Nations Department of Economic and Social Affair's "50th Commission on the status of women", the plucky woman also plans to say that the United States should become "free of liquor".'
01:59:47 <sbp> you bunch of fricking sloshed up boozers
02:00:29 <jetscreamer> yeah let's reinstate prohibition
02:00:35 <jetscreamer> that will work
02:00:44 <sbp> <Homer> they tried that in the movies, and it didn't work!
02:01:03 <sbp> well, prohibition did lead to one of the most awesome Simpsons episodes
02:02:01 <sbp> plus then you go drift down to your local speakeasy and listen to hot jazz music all night long. can't do that now, can you?
02:03:17 <sbp> "The next time I want to talk to my parents back in the states, I think I'm just gonna have her stand on a coast and shout my message across the Pacific." - http://outpostnine.com/editorials/teacher104.html
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02:12:44 <KragenSitaker> "high entropy" is the same thing as "hard to guess"
02:12:53 <KragenSitaker> so it is not true that
02:12:57 <KragenSitaker> 20:43 < clsn> But that's an information-theoretic kind of thing. Someone's logonid might be relatively high entropy but easy to guess.
02:16:12 <KragenSitaker> however, if your model of how someone produces a password is very different from the actual process, you will systematically overestimate the entropy of their passwords.
02:16:34 <KragenSitaker> which is a problem if your attacker's model of the password choosing process is better than yours
02:20:36 <KragenSitaker> a larger body of text produced by the same process that produces the password is a perfectly good way to estimate the entropy, but it's hard to come by
02:21:43 <clsn> KragenSitaker: hard to guess depends on who's doing the guessing. If your logonid is mxaerkw, guessing that as your password is a no-brainer... but entropy-wise relative to English, that isn't bad, under the circumstances.
02:22:35 <clsn> sbp: the Olympics coverage here is showing a segment on Shaun Palmer. Didn't know you did snowboarding...
02:26:51 <sbp> reminds me of: 2001-12-22 00:27:12 <deltab> haha! Sean Palmer's Pro Skateboard on tv
02:27:12 <sbp> he's a skateboarder, snowboarder, and downhill biker
02:27:19 <clsn> Neat...
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02:42:11 <sbp> chuckle:
02:42:12 <sbp> [[[
02:42:12 <sbp> 1) the hold button only prevents the play / pause button activating, it doesn't prevent the menu button activating. Mine sits in my bag and gets knocked on all the time and kills the battery.
02:42:13 <sbp> 2) Whilst my bag finds it easy to acivate the menu button, I don't.
02:42:19 <sbp> ]]] - http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000BV7ET8/qid=1140402709/
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02:54:59 <jetscreamer> who is bancus
02:55:21 <jetscreamer> nm
02:55:36 <bancus> what?
02:55:47 <bancus> I've been here for ages
02:56:53 <jetscreamer> bancus (n=treed@bia.crschmidt.net) has left #debian
02:56:58 <jetscreamer> why i asked
02:57:01 <bancus> oh
02:57:03 <jetscreamer> but there you are
02:57:05 <sbp> I'd like to know who digital_, oxblood, and skylan are
02:57:06 <bancus> heh
02:57:17 <sbp> and Eimi and some others that have lurked for ages, for that matter
02:57:26 <bancus> eimi is a lojbanist
02:57:35 <sbp> aha. oh, I think I knew that too
02:57:48 <sbp> hmm... gsf_ is new too
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03:00:55 <oxblood> sbp, Why aren't you inquisitive.
03:01:43 <sbp> why aren't I? dunno. but at least I'm probing
03:02:00 <est> :o
03:02:20 <sbp> * sbp waves
03:02:25 <oxblood> No, I was referring to your sense curiosity not the the lack of.
03:02:34 <oxblood> Damn grammar.
03:02:47 <sbp> heh, heh. welcome to Swhack, anyway! I think I said a few lines to you before
03:03:00 <sbp> not sure if I mentioned that this is a publically logged channel though
03:03:02 <jetscreamer> why,
03:03:04 <oxblood> Have you? Weird, my client didn't pick it up.
03:03:29 <sbp> sure:
03:03:30 <sbp> 2006-02-17 04:35:16 <oxblood> sbp, It's the mid of the night.
03:03:30 <oxblood> I was here last year for a few weeks but quit IRC for a long time.
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03:03:35 <sbp> you've even addressed me, so
03:03:39 <sbp> oh really? fair enough
03:03:44 <sbp> were you under the same nickname then?
03:03:45 <oxblood> Oh ya, I remember that.
03:03:58 <oxblood> Umm... No. Let me get the log.
03:04:20 <sbp> hmm. the only other mention of "oxblood" is by someone called Uviz
03:04:42 <oxblood> Yes, I just digged it up from swhack.com.
03:05:17 <sbp> anyway, at least I vaguely remember you now. welcome back!
03:05:21 <sbp> back to the timesink that is IRC
03:05:54 <oxblood> Hah, unfortunately I have a flight to catch on tonight.
03:06:07 <oxblood> But I'll come back by Thursday.
03:06:19 <sbp> cool
03:07:13 <oxblood> Ya, especially when it's for leisure.
03:08:27 <sbp> shame it's only a few days, then
03:09:29 <oxblood> It's not like I am going be gone forever.
03:14:16 <redmonk> "Lost and gone forever"
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03:18:40 <jetscreamer> damn, i miss him already
03:19:40 <jetscreamer> damn, i just started missing my nin vid collection more
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03:25:30 <sbp> * sbp flicks through http://developer.apple.com/hardware/ipod/iPodNoteReaderGuide.pdf
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04:06:13 <est> i am getting tired of the..colorlessness of the "colors" used in garbage collection: white, grey, black..and, when you need a fourth one, ecru!
04:10:35 <Ash> COLORRRRSS
04:16:29 <deltab> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=06/02/19/1711210&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=nested&cid=14756027
04:17:05 <Ash> est: i demand more colorful garbage collection
04:17:09 <Ash> MAUVE HAS THE MOST RAM
04:18:43 <deltab> Edward de Bono suggested (in "Po: Beyond Yes and No") using a difference colour each day in order to test the efficiency of the garbage collection
04:18:52 <deltab> well, street sweeping
04:19:05 <Ash> heheh
04:19:57 <deltab> at least, I think it was "Po", but maybe it was another of the books in that series
04:20:29 <Ash> PoPoPo
04:20:51 <deltab> yes, no, po and mu
04:20:59 <deltab> and FileNotFound
04:20:59 <Ash> PoPoPoPoPoPoPoPoPo
04:21:22 <deltab> uh oh, Ash is stuck in a loop
04:22:34 <Ash> PoPoPoPoPoPoPoPoPo
04:22:38 <Ash> PoPoPoPoPoPoPoPoPo
04:23:00 <Ash> #<<SCRIPT ERRROR 4322DS> /home/ash $
04:26:23 <est> ScriptError: Ash not found!
04:27:01 <Ash> heheh
04:27:17 <est> no more ash! what will we do??
04:30:00 <lilo> [Global Notice] Hi all. Just a reminder: #freenode-groups has been set up as a social channel for folks with primary space group cloaks. Work on freenode-registry, which will replace services and provide automated functionality for group registration, continues. If you don't currently have processed group registration and cloaks, please be patient. Thanks!
04:59:42 <sbp> this:
04:59:43 <sbp> class YeOldeAsh(Person):
04:59:43 <sbp> def easterEgg(self, message):
04:59:43 <sbp> if message == 'Sanryobuki Artificial Liver':
04:59:47 <sbp> self.reply('kekeke')
04:59:47 <sbp> Ash = YeOldeAsh('Ash')
05:00:51 <Ash> hah
05:01:04 <sbp> tomorrow has made a phonecall to today
05:01:28 <sbp> heheh
05:07:31 <Ash> so good
05:09:15 <bancus> everytime I see deviantart.com, I mentally break it up into devian tart
05:12:49 <deltab> me too!
05:13:57 <edsu> edsu has quit ("leaving")
05:19:45 <lilo> [Global Notice] A new network news article is up for 20 February 2006....topics: group registrations, freenode staff channels, fundraiser. Have a great morning!
05:40:10 <Ash> weird i do that too
05:40:28 <est> im normally deviant
05:41:06 <deltab> deviantest
05:41:32 <Ash> it is est's normal state
05:44:04 <est> hay!
05:49:19 <Ash> ehehe
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06:11:29 <Monty> lo madewokherd
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07:14:21 <bjoern_h> Monty, "We want nothing but world peace... Or a piece of the world, tee, hee..."
07:14:23 <Monty> buggered soldering-iron...
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08:20:15 <KragenSitaker> clsn: yes, it's true that "random English words" is not a good characterization of the processes that produce people's passwords. but that doesn't mean that the password-producing process can't be characterized in information-theory terms.
08:20:42 <KragenSitaker> and once you do that, low-entropy passwords are exactly those that are easy to guess
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08:21:32 <Monty> welcome, Yoz
08:22:27 <KragenSitaker> hi yoz
08:22:43 <Yoz> hey kragen
08:22:45 <KragenSitaker> how's preaching the gospel of end-user php copypasting?
08:22:46 <Yoz> how're you doing?
08:22:56 <KragenSitaker> good, working on some antiphishing stuff
08:23:06 <KragenSitaker> which is why i'm so intensely interested in password entropy today
08:23:25 <Yoz> yep, soon I will have the whole world pasting code from snippet buffers instead of writing new stuff
08:23:42 <KragenSitaker> perhaps i should take the time to get intimate with the code of john the ripper instead of pestering #swhack
08:24:07 <Yoz> * Yoz disappears to book his cab to MashupCamp
08:24:10 <KragenSitaker> so have you read the http://alarmingdevelopment.org/ blog?
08:24:16 <Yoz> nope
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08:24:41 <KragenSitaker> in some sense he wants to rehabilitate cut and paste. make it respectable by making it manageable.
08:25:01 <Yoz> intriguing
08:25:37 <KragenSitaker> there are four groups working on the same thing. there's me, jonathan edwards (the alarmingdevelopment guy), Dynamic Aspects, and Wouter van Oortmerssen
08:25:53 <Yoz> oooh
08:26:15 <KragenSitaker> Wouter has the best record of doing stuff in the past; Dynamic Aspects has the largest number of people and grandest technological vision; and jonathan has the nicest screencasts
08:26:23 <Yoz> :_
08:26:24 <Yoz> :)
08:26:35 <KragenSitaker> jonathan and i have both written a lot about it in public
08:27:30 <Yoz> I definitely have to investigate this
08:27:39 <Yoz> I need to give you a proper lead through Ning too
08:27:43 <KragenSitaker> a lead?
08:27:47 <Yoz> I mean
08:27:51 <KragenSitaker> i did drop by the palo alto office one day
08:27:52 <Yoz> walk you through some of the cooler bits
08:27:58 <Yoz> damn, when was that?
08:28:08 <KragenSitaker> to say hello. people said hello back, and then sort of waited for me to leave :)
08:28:14 <KragenSitaker> oh, two or three months ago
08:28:21 <KragenSitaker> next time i walked by the Ning sign was gone ;)
08:28:29 <Yoz> ah, so it was YOU!
08:28:29 <Yoz> :)
08:28:37 <KragenSitaker> only person I knew there was Mike Rowehl
08:29:24 <Yoz> I've been here for nearly three months now
08:29:28 <Yoz> heading back home after etech
08:29:32 <KragenSitaker> "here"?
08:29:34 <KragenSitaker> which here?
08:29:35 <Yoz> PA
08:29:46 <KragenSitaker> oh really. maybe i'll drop by on wednesday then.
08:29:54 <KragenSitaker> possible?
08:30:01 <Yoz> sure! we should grab a bite.
08:30:11 <Yoz> send me a mail first :)
08:30:11 <KragenSitaker> mmm
08:30:18 <KragenSitaker> ok.
08:30:24 <KragenSitaker> * KragenSitaker examines his address book
08:30:26 <Yoz> it'd be cool to see you!
08:30:36 <Yoz> ( yoz@yoz.com )
08:30:44 <Yoz> (or yoz@ninginc.com)
08:30:51 <Yoz> (separate accounts)
08:30:57 <KragenSitaker> i'd be delighted to see you too
08:31:18 <Yoz> right, brb
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09:10:24 <KragenSitaker> so est
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11:29:20 <bjoern_> Monty! Are you pondering what I am pondering?
11:29:22 <Monty> timer = e32.Ao_timer()
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14:00:26 <bjoern_> .w ransom
14:00:29 <phenny> ransom 1. money demanded for the return of a captured person
14:00:33 <phenny> ransom 2. payment for the release of someone
14:00:33 <bjoern_> .ety ransom
14:00:36 <phenny> ransom 3. the act of freeing from captivity or punishment [...]
14:00:38 <phenny> "c.1225, 'sum paid for the release of a prisoner or captured man,' from O.Fr. ranson (Fr. rançon), earlier raenson 'ransom, redemption,' from L. redemptionem (nom. redemptio) 'a redeeming,' from redimere (see redeem)." - http://etymonline.com/?term=ransom
14:01:55 <ngd> ngd has quit ()
14:15:37 <kpreid> .cp 8230
14:15:40 <phenny> Sorry, no results found for '8230'.
14:16:17 <kpreid> er
14:16:36 <kpreid> .cp 2026
14:16:39 <phenny> 2026: HORIZONTAL ELLIPSIS (…)
14:16:42 <phenny> FE19: PRESENTATION FORM FOR VERTICAL HORIZONTAL ELLIPSIS (︙)
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15:29:19 <Monty> Thank goodness, redmonk is back!
15:29:21 <phenny> Be quiet, Monty.
15:29:22 <Monty> I've pasted the uk
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18:58:22 <Monty> Thank goodness, jnorthrup is back!
18:58:25 <phenny> Be quiet, Monty.
18:58:26 <Monty> HTTPReq ) )
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19:20:13 <Monty> it's ngd!
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20:00:27 <est> maybe Monty will greet me this time
20:00:30 <Monty> I reckon dishwasher + F1GP = leguminous directory!
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20:13:34 <sbp> boing
20:14:36 <est> bing bang
20:14:44 <sbp> ehyup est
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20:20:31 <lilo> [Global Notice] Hi all. Just a reminder: news article up at http://freenode.net/news.shtml .... group registrations, staff channels, 2006-2007 fundraising .... have a great evening, and thank you for using freenode!
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20:42:30 <jcowan> Ittywhonk!
20:42:33 <phenny> jcowan: 18 Feb 17:56Z <kandinski> tell jcowan thanks for the info
20:42:36 <phenny> jcowan: 19 Feb 05:06Z <sbp> tell jcowan that I've been listening to podcasts recently, and applying similar rules as to reading books; in other words, avoiding contemporary information as much as possible. it's been exceedingly difficult so far, but also another annoying thing is that podcasters tend to talk about the podcasting *mechanism* a lot since it's such a buzzwordy novelty. annoying
20:42:40 <phenny> jcowan: 19 Feb 23:39Z <clsn> tell jcowan Don't forget to tell me the golf joke I'm supposed to remind you about.
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20:45:10 <Monty> howdy, JibberJim
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21:09:33 <jcowan> jcowan has changed the topic to: NEON CRYPTON AMMONIATED FITZJOHN NEON CRYPTON AMMONIATED FITZJOHN
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21:17:45 <sbp> * sbp writes up a defence of faking the HTTP User-Agent header value
21:17:46 <sbp> http://miscoranda.com/162
21:18:07 <sbp> not even a defence, really. an explanation
21:18:19 <sbp> but I've been criticized a few times for faking User-Agent
21:18:26 <sbp> which is such as is absurd, as I note
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21:37:25 <jcowan> Good article, although I think the Firefox/Gmail analogy lacks force: surely IE users can do the same?
21:38:03 <sbp> yeah, any users I suppose... good point. I need something more exclusive
21:38:08 <sbp> and thanks
21:38:43 <jcowan> "like banning Firefox on a framed site because Firefox can display the content unframed"
21:39:13 <sbp> ooh, that's a good one
21:40:07 <eikeon_> eikeon_ (n=eikeon@ptx-dual-v1.net.umd.edu) has joined #swhack
21:40:28 <sbp> thanks!
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21:40:48 <Monty> howdy, JibberJim
21:42:32 <sbp> updated, credited, etc.
21:47:39 <jcowan> Thanks.
21:48:27 <JibberJim> howdy Monty
21:48:28 <Monty> haircuts == gambling-machine;
21:48:43 <jcowan> Huh.
21:49:12 <jcowan> It appears that "Palmer" is, besides its obvious meaning of "pilgrim to Jerusalem", also the English equivalent of the Irish name "Ó Maolfhoghmhair".
21:50:06 <jcowan> Though just why does not appear, as that certainly does not refer to palms or palmers.
21:51:02 <Ash> they're just thinking of sbp when they made it up
21:51:03 <Ash> is all
21:51:29 <jcowan> * jcowan pokes around a bit more
21:51:42 <jcowan> Oho (AIYCA)
21:52:08 <jcowan> "Ó Maolfhoghmhair" is Mallover/Milford, usually, and means "lord of the harvest"
21:52:53 <est> est has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:55:25 <sbp> cool! still not sure I see how that links it to "Palmer"
21:55:35 <jcowan> Nor I.
21:55:49 <JibberJim> JibberJim has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:55:51 <jcowan> Perhaps some Mallovers were palmers in days past.
21:56:06 <sbp> also Palmer is said to be partly derived from a Roman name, and there are Palmers in England that well pre-date the crusades and pilgrimage times. late Anglo-Saxon, indeed, so not even in Middle English
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21:56:34 <sbp> the -hmhair suffix makes it seems like a phonological thing, at least
21:56:51 <sbp> how is "Maolfhoghmhair" pronounced, exactly?
21:57:00 <sbp> * sbp is still terrible at Irish Gaelic pronunciation
21:57:02 <jcowan> mel-okh-vire.
21:57:07 <jcowan> fh is silent
21:57:32 <jcowan> s/vire/ver
21:58:31 <sbp> okay... perhaps not so phonological, unless it's one of those misinterpretation things
21:58:49 <jcowan> About like trying to make a phonological explanation of Enroughty -> Darby
21:58:53 <sbp> fhoghmhair -> phoghlmer -> palmer or something equally contrived
21:59:16 <sbp> well... it does happen. especially with Welsh
21:59:41 <jcowan> Mallover is far more phlausibhle.
22:00:05 <jcowan> * jcowan looks about for "palmarius"
22:00:17 <sbp> phlausibhle... hehe
22:00:48 <jcowan> pron. flausivel
22:01:29 <sbp> and hence the etymology of Parsival, and thus Percival in English
22:01:38 <jcowan> _palmarius_: [[[
22:01:50 <jcowan> I. of or belonging to palms: Insula Palmaria, the Isle of Palms in the Tyrrhenian Sea, now Palmarola, Varr. R. R. 3, 5, 7; Plin. 3, 6, 12, § 81.--
22:01:50 <jcowan> II. Transf., subst.: palmārĭ-um , ii, n. *
22:01:50 <jcowan> A. That which deserves the prize, a masterpiece: id vero est, quod ego mihi puto palmarium, Ter. Eun. 5, 4, 8 .--
22:01:50 <jcowan> B. The fee of a successful advocate, Dig. 50, 13, 1, § 12; cf. palmarium, axionikon, Gloss. Philox.
22:01:54 <jcowan> ]]] -- Lewis & Short
22:02:21 <sbp> I thought it was connected to some festival, but I can't find my notes on it now
22:04:57 <jcowan> Well, palmers carried palms because of Palm Sunday, surely.
22:05:52 <JibberJim> what did they do the rest of the year?
22:08:22 <jcowan> I didn't say they carried palms only on Palm Sunday, I said they carried palms on every day (or as many as possible) because of Palm Sunday.
22:08:29 <jcowan> Of course, "palmer" isn't really an occupation.
22:09:40 <bancus> http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle.aspx?type=oddlyEnoughNews&storyid=2006-02-20T155053Z_01_L1970873_RTRUKOC_0_US-GERMANY-DRUGS.xml
22:09:43 <JibberJim> right.
22:15:49 <sbp> anybody know of a decent Audio Hijack equivalent for Windows?
22:16:40 <JibberJim> that allows you to record the output?
22:17:00 <JibberJim> most windows sound card drivers allow you to do that anyway.
22:17:07 <sbp> how?
22:17:20 <JibberJim> just record the wave output input normally
22:17:42 <JibberJim> have a look at what input devices you have available to you in your sound recording tool
22:17:47 <eikeon_> eikeon_ has quit ()
22:20:38 <sbp> hmm. I have two Wave Devices, but those don't seem right
22:20:48 <sbp> I need something which says Line In as the current option, clearly...
22:21:38 <JibberJim> not wave out mix ?
22:22:25 <sbp> in recording control I have Mono Mix and Stereo Mix. both unselected; let's try those...
22:23:02 <sbp> ahaha, it works. cheers Jim!
22:23:09 <JibberJim> thought it would...
22:23:41 <JibberJim> which is probably also why you didn't easily find a program when searching to do it :-)
22:24:17 <JibberJim> This connection is so crap
22:24:37 <JibberJim> but considering I'm on the 5th floor far corner of a hotel with no buildings in site, I'm wondering where it's coming from
22:25:51 <sbp> didn't easily find: yeah!
22:26:04 <sbp> perhaps someone's got a phone connection or something in a neighbouring room?
22:26:54 <JibberJim> btcentralplus.com ?
22:27:01 <JibberJim> looks like a broadband one to me
22:27:05 <sbp> oh. hmm
22:27:16 <sbp> offices of the hotel or something?
22:27:54 <JibberJim> doubt it!
22:28:08 <JibberJim> travel lodges don't have offices...
22:28:14 <sbp> oh. heh, heh
22:28:25 <sbp> didn't even know there were any with five floors
22:29:28 <JibberJim> it's got 7!
22:31:03 <sbp> they're going up in the world!
22:39:00 <JibberJim> I think I should carry a big wifi aerial around with me, but I suppose it wouldn't change the situation
22:39:11 <JibberJim> I'd still be annoyed trying to access one right on the edge of range
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22:39:28 <sbp> chuckle: "NOTE: Before downloading any MP3 related software, please read this important message from the RIAA." - http://lame.sourceforge.net/download/download.html
22:39:33 <sbp> -> http://lame.sourceforge.net/download/riaa.html
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22:39:57 <sbp> JibberJim: yeah, but maybe you could ask to choose your room then...
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22:44:58 <MoiraA> JibberJim: I got a 200 mw pcmcia card for my laptop
22:45:00 <MoiraA> long range
22:45:35 <MoiraA> slight problem was it was faulty and had to go back to the ebay seller, but I'm getting a replacement sent out
22:47:16 <sbp> ooh: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/losing_the_past.shtml
22:49:36 <JibberJim> * JibberJim wonders what his one is.
22:49:57 <crschmidt> I heart Apple Authorized Service Centers
22:50:10 <JibberJim> ibm seem to list the power of some of their mini-pci cards, but not mine
22:54:09 <MoiraA> 200 milliwatts is actually illegal
22:54:30 <MoiraA> for the valid reason that it can interfere with other networks
22:54:39 <MoiraA> I didn't know that when i ordered it
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