00:04:06 *** bear_dinner is now known as bear
00:05:23 *** shawnb (n=shawnbro@64.241.37.140) has joined #swhack
00:07:00 *** DrBacchus has quit ("Back in a couple hours ...")
00:40:44 <BigJibby> .t est
00:40:47 <phenny> Mon, 03 Apr 2006 19:35:59 EST
00:46:05 *** shawnb has quit ("They mostly disconnect at night... mostly.")
00:55:02 <Kragen> phenny, tell me if i look fat
00:55:04 <phenny> Hey, I'm not as stupid as Monty you know!
00:55:06 <Monty> took 0.76 seconds)
00:55:26 <Kragen> phenny, tell your mom to shut up
00:55:29 <phenny> Kragen: I'll pass that on when your is around.
00:55:51 <Kragen> i wonder if there are messages waiting for misspelled nicks.
00:56:21 *** mobus is now known as Kragen
00:56:23 <mobus> hi
00:56:26 *** Kragen is now known as mobus
00:57:36 *** Mnoty is now known as BigJibby
00:57:43 <Mnoty> blurg
00:58:15 *** BigJibby is now known as Mnoty
00:59:04 <Kragen> nobody would leave messages on phenny for monty, except for fun
00:59:06 <Monty> you really not everybody looks like that.
01:01:09 <BigJibby> Monty, looks like what?
01:01:10 <Monty> Alguien ah???
01:06:38 <Kragen> looks like you!
01:12:05 *** DrBacchus (n=rbowen@buglet.rcbowen.com) has joined #swhack
01:13:59 *** jcowan (i=jcowan@cpe-66-108-115-235.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #swhack
01:16:24 <jcowan> Ittywhonk!
01:19:08 <Kragen> .wik ittywhonk
01:19:12 <phenny> Can't find anything in Wikipedia for "ittywhonk".
01:20:50 <jcowan> Not very likely.
01:25:01 *** bear is now known as bear_dinner
01:40:59 <Kragen> .wik bear
01:41:02 <phenny> "A bear is a very large mammal of the order Carnivora, family Ursidae." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear
01:41:23 <jcowan> Our bear is always with us.
01:41:35 *** vIkSiT has quit ("Leaving")
01:41:44 *** est_ (n=est@user-2ivflkb.dialup.mindspring.com) has joined #swhack
01:44:47 <Ash> .wik bare bear
01:44:53 <phenny> "Baring, Missouri" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baring
01:59:38 <BigJibby> hmm, why would a host disable access to wget?
01:59:41 *** wallrazer (n=steve@ip68-104-189-211.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #swhack
01:59:56 <BigJibby> but allow curl
02:00:23 <crschmidt> BigJibby: because wget is often used to recursively grab lots of files
02:01:07 *** clsn (i=1000@h-66-134-26-207.nycmny83.covad.net) has joined #swhack
02:01:07 <BigJibby> oh, i see.
02:03:15 *** est has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
02:13:17 *** est is now known as est_
02:14:42 <SethR> yo
02:17:04 *** wallrazer has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:17:53 *** DrBacchus has quit ("Don't wait up for me")
02:19:29 *** wallrazer (n=steve@ip68-104-189-211.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #swhack
02:24:54 *** natbat has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:24:57 <BigJibby> .calc 60 * 60 * 3
02:24:59 <phenny> 60 * 60 * 3 = 10 800
02:25:07 *** DrBacchus (n=rbowen@buglet.rcbowen.com) has joined #swhack
02:26:12 *** SethR has quit ()
02:27:51 *** natbat (n=natalied@dynamic-212-225-56-200.park-s46b.dslaccess.co.uk) has joined #swhack
02:30:17 *** DrBacchus has quit ("Suspending laptop. Back later.")
02:31:04 *** BigJibby has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
03:21:45 *** BigJibby (n=matt@mtl58-12b-159-173.dialup.sprint-canada.net) has joined #swhack
03:22:02 *** wmf (n=Snak@cpe-70-112-0-87.austin.res.rr.com) has joined #swhack
03:22:15 <est> eek!
03:22:27 <wmf> hey est
03:24:05 <jsled> .ety distaff
03:24:09 <phenny> "O.E. distæf 'stick that holds flax for spinning,' from dis- 'bunch of flax' + stæf 'stick, staff.' A synonym in Eng. for 'the female sex, female authority in the family,' since at least the late 1400s, probably because in the Middle Ages spinning was typically done by women." - http://etymonline.com/?term=distaff
03:50:14 *** wallrazer has quit ()
04:04:56 <deltab> .ety datstaff
04:04:59 <phenny> Can't find the etymology for "datstaff". Try http://etymonline.com/?search=datstaff
04:07:30 * jcowan rises up from the underworld and strikes deltab dead, or at least very roughly.
04:10:37 *** vIkSiT (n=viksit@68.63.158.239) has joined #swhack
04:10:43 *** wmf has quit ("Hack the Planet")
04:17:27 *** wallrazer (n=steve@ip68-104-189-211.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #swhack
04:19:03 *** wallrazer has quit (Client Quit)
04:23:10 *** wallrazer (n=steve@ip68-104-189-211.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #swhack
04:24:20 *** wallrazer has quit (Client Quit)
04:30:40 *** [1]yoz (n=yoz@cowanfamily.plus.com) has joined #swhack
04:36:00 *** jcowan has quit ("Leaving")
04:42:06 *** yoz has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
04:42:07 *** yoz is now known as [1]yoz
04:42:57 *** wallrazer (n=steve@ip68-104-189-211.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #swhack
05:31:49 *** wallrazer has quit ()
05:36:57 *** sbp- (n=nnnnnnnn@bia.crschmidt.net) has joined #swhack
05:37:50 *** MattRead (n=matt@mtl58-12b-159-173.dialup.sprint-canada.net) has joined #swhack
05:38:16 *** BigJibby has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
05:38:22 *** sbp has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
05:38:56 *** sbp is now known as sbp-
05:40:06 *** BigJibby is now known as MattRead
06:14:49 *** webchick|zZz is now known as webchick
06:18:06 *** vIkSiT has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
06:27:37 *** bear_afk is now known as bear
07:01:18 *** bjoern_ (n=bjoern@dslb-084-056-249-084.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #swhack
07:05:50 *** BigJibby has quit (Remote closed the connection)
07:31:26 *** madewokherd has quit (Remote closed the connection)
07:45:13 *** gromgull (n=grimnes@pc-212.dfki.uni-kl.de) has joined #swhack
08:02:13 *** giovannit (n=Miranda@pcp-tummarello.deit.univpm.it) has joined #swhack
08:06:46 *** [1]yoz (n=yoz@cowanfamily.plus.com) has joined #swhack
08:06:46 <Monty> But what does [1]yoz have to do with the price of fish?
08:06:49 <phenny> Hush there, Monty.
08:06:50 <Monty> n80 is great.
08:08:30 <bjoern_> how do you know Monty?
08:08:33 <Monty> dodgems's laughable ghosts creates puppies's docile acid :(
08:08:49 <bjoern_> and n80 helps you with that, Montyß
08:08:51 <bjoern_> ?
08:08:57 <Monty> shall i did you/james get an issue until it from various data centers that :-) so that's cool...everyone's happy about whether it's "Latin for sure even
08:09:19 <bjoern_> everyone, Monty? I doubt it...
08:09:21 <Monty> third enormous tabs.
08:09:26 <bjoern_> Monty, countdown
08:09:26 <Monty> One large one and five small numbers: 100, 5, 1, 4, 8, 9. Your target is 624. You have thirty seconds, tick, tock, tick, tock...
08:09:52 <bjoern_> Monty, calc (5+1)*4 + 100*6
08:09:53 <Monty> bjoern_: 624
08:09:56 <Monty> Duh dum, duh dum, duh-da-da-dum! Your 30 seconds are up!
08:09:58 <Monty> I found a solution in approximately 94 milliseconds. I found all 12 solutions in about 275 milliseconds.
08:09:59 <Monty> ibot (100*4 - 1 - 9)/5*8
08:10:00 <bjoern_> If only I had a 6 ...
08:10:15 <bjoern_> Monty, countdown
08:10:15 <Monty> One large one and five small numbers: 100, 10, 9, 10, 4, 5. Your target is 381. You have thirty seconds, tick, tock, tick, tock...
08:10:36 <bjoern_> Monty, calc 4*100 - (10-9)
08:10:37 <Monty> bjoern_: 399
08:10:41 <bjoern_> Monty, calc 4*100 - 10-9
08:10:41 <Monty> bjoern_: 381
08:10:45 <Monty> Duh dum, duh dum, duh-da-da-dum! Your 30 seconds are up!
08:10:46 <Monty> I found a solution in approximately 11 milliseconds. I found all 44 solutions in about 245 milliseconds.
08:10:48 <Monty> ibot 100*4 - 9 - 10
08:10:55 <bjoern_> Monty, countdown
08:10:55 <Monty> One large one and five small numbers: 75, 10, 4, 4, 6, 10. Your target is 881. You have thirty seconds, tick, tock, tick, tock...
08:11:20 <bjoern_> Monty, calc (75-4)*10
08:11:20 <Monty> bjoern_: 710
08:11:25 <Monty> Duh dum, duh dum, duh-da-da-dum! Your 30 seconds are up!
08:11:26 <Monty> I found a solution in approximately 128 milliseconds. I found all 8 solutions in about 235 milliseconds.
08:11:28 <Monty> ibot (4 + 4)*10*10 + 75 + 6
08:11:36 <bjoern_> Monty, countdown
08:11:36 <Monty> One large one and five small numbers: 75, 3, 2, 9, 6, 10. Your target is 933. You have thirty seconds, tick, tock, tick, tock...
08:11:54 <bjoern_> Monty, calc (10+3)*75
08:11:54 <Monty> bjoern_: 975
08:12:02 *** libby (n=libby@82-32-5-17.cable.ubr01.azte.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #swhack
08:12:06 <Monty> Duh dum, duh dum, duh-da-da-dum! Your 30 seconds are up!
08:12:07 <Monty> I found a solution in approximately 43 milliseconds. I found all 23 solutions in about 244 milliseconds.
08:12:09 <Monty> ibot (2*9 + 75)*10 + 3
08:12:23 <bjoern_> 23 solutions? You are evil Monty.
08:12:27 <Monty> You know, glibc docile Moz fingers pharmaceutical sweaty ramifications...
08:12:30 <bjoern_> take this:
08:12:30 <bjoern_> Monty, stone
08:12:30 <Monty> I chose scissors - You win :(
08:12:37 <bjoern_> mwhahaha
08:24:15 *** yoz has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
08:25:59 *** [1]yoz has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
08:29:22 *** gromgull_ (n=grimnes@pc-203.dfki.uni-kl.de) has joined #swhack
08:42:11 *** gromgull has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
08:54:02 *** iand (n=Miranda@62.172.77.82) has joined #swhack
09:06:13 <sbp> boing
09:08:37 <est> eeeeeeeeeek
09:09:00 *** gromgull is now known as gromgull_
09:11:12 <thelsdj> bong
09:13:32 *** mumbles (n=john@cpc1-bror1-6-0-cust67.bmly.cable.ntl.com) has joined #swhack
09:39:28 *** Moira has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
09:39:40 *** Moira (n=moira@tor/session/x-156498b652b0e1b1) has joined #swhack
09:46:58 *** est has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
09:48:59 *** JibberJim (n=none@dsl-217-155-144-152.zen.co.uk) has joined #swhack
09:56:54 *** gromgull has quit ()
10:24:38 <sbp> crschmidt: around?
10:34:39 <sbp> phenny: tell crschmidt that I've been working on a summary of the state of affairs and future of RSS 1.1 and am planning to send it to the rss-dev mailing list and would very much like to talk about it before doing so
10:34:41 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when crschmidt is around.
10:35:39 <sbp> phenny: tell d8uv you too
10:35:41 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when d8uv is around.
10:35:54 <sbp> phenny: tell d8uv (http://swhack.com/logs/2006-04-04#T10-34-39)
10:35:56 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when d8uv is around.
10:36:04 <Arnia> Ugh, someone citing metacrap
10:36:07 <phenny> Arnia: 03 Apr 17:38Z <libby> tell Arnia no :-)
10:36:27 <Arnia> phenny, tell libby fair enough :)
10:36:30 <phenny> Arnia: I'll pass that on when libby is around.
10:36:39 <sbp> metacrap?
10:36:42 <libby> heh, I never heard of it arnia
10:36:44 <phenny> libby: 10:31Z <Arnia> tell libby fair enough :)
10:36:48 <libby> heh
10:36:57 <libby> and the dadline has gone anyway
10:36:59 <libby> daedline
10:37:01 <libby> thing
10:39:32 <sbp> [[[
10:39:32 <sbp> The name "Darjeeling" comes from the Tibetan words "dorge" meaning a thunderbolt (originally the sceptre of the Hindu god Indra) and "ling," a place; hence, "the place of the thunderbolt." (Anyone living in Darjeeling during the Monsoon will tell you that this name is most appropriate!)
10:39:38 <sbp> ]]] - http://www.oldmhs.com/
10:40:23 <Arnia> http://www.osnews.com/permalink.php?news_id=14215&comment_id=111089
10:40:43 <Arnia> Anyway, I should head into the office really
10:41:33 <Arnia> Submitting a paper to the Semantics For Web Services workshop at BPM2006 and I have some experiments to set up
10:46:44 <bjoern_> "Music industry unleashes more lawsuits in Europe" -- http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=internetNews&storyID=2006-04-04T075540Z_01_L03228030_RTRUKOC_0_US-MEDIA-MUSIC-LAWSUITS.xml
10:52:37 *** gromgull (n=grimnes@pc-203.dfki.uni-kl.de) has joined #swhack
10:56:39 *** DrBacchus (n=rbowen@buglet.rcbowen.com) has joined #swhack
11:03:26 *** Arnia has quit ("dolis mores defluet")
11:11:06 *** DrBacchus has quit ("Suspending laptop. Back later.")
11:22:28 *** bjoern_h (n=bjoern@dslb-084-057-247-188.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #swhack
11:37:33 *** bjoern_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
11:37:45 *** bjoern_ (n=bjoern_@dslb-084-057-247-188.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #swhack
11:43:20 *** bsh is now known as bjoern_h
11:45:26 <bjoern_> This ChatZilla thing is a terrible IRC client emulation software.
11:45:53 <sbp> does it not use Microsoft Virtual Server?
11:46:27 <bsh> I think it does not, but you never know what they sneaked this time into the open sources.
11:47:08 <bjoern_> Yeah, I'm fairly sure there is no virtual server in here
11:47:10 <kandinski> what?
11:47:36 <bjoern_> Huh?
11:47:36 <bsh> Huh?
11:47:39 <sbp> hmm?
11:47:48 <kandinski> Microsoft Virtual Server in a Mozilla program?
11:47:56 <sbp> yeah, why not? it's free
11:48:04 <kandinski> or isn't Chatzilla the Mozilla Suite IRC program?
11:48:13 <kandinski> is Microsoft Virtual Server Free?
11:48:23 * kandinski feels like Rip Van Winkle
11:48:32 <kandinski> what year is this again?
11:48:36 <bsh> I thought it's a separate program, not part of the suite
11:48:44 <bjoern_> yes, virtual server is a free download
11:48:48 <sbp> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserversystem/virtualserver/software/default.mspx
11:49:06 <kandinski> free download is not Free
11:49:10 * kandinski checks
11:49:44 <kandinski> oh, you mean the VM-Ware clone
11:49:48 <bsh> Free Willy isn't free either.
11:50:10 <bjoern_> Even free beer comes at a price.
11:51:35 <bjoern_> at least virtual server marketing doesn't rely on http://firefoxy.vegard2.no/index2.html porn...
11:53:22 <sbp> it's Yiffy(TM)
11:54:08 <bsh> ah, (tm) as in Microsoft Segoe (tm)?
11:54:39 <sbp> ooh, Segoe
11:54:48 <JibberJim> does MS Virtual Server have bluetooth support inside the server-y thingy?
11:54:49 <kandinski> they got shafted there
11:55:01 <kandinski> for similarities with Frutiger
11:55:38 <bsh> (http://oami.eu.int/PDF/design/invaldec/ICD%20000000743%20decision%20(EN).pdf)
11:57:04 <sbp> "C. Conclusion (12) The RCD does not fulfil the requirements of novelty in the meaning of in Art. 5 CDR. The RCD is to be declared invalid according to Art. 25(1)(b) CDR."
12:00:22 <sbp> .char a\
12:00:24 <phenny> a - Latin Small Letter A (a)
12:00:34 <sbp> .cp a with gra
12:00:37 <phenny> 00C0: LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A WITH GRAVE (À)
12:00:40 <phenny> 00E0: LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH GRAVE (à)
12:01:08 <bsh> .cp o with dia
12:01:10 <phenny> 00D6: LATIN CAPITAL LETTER O WITH DIAERESIS (Ö)
12:01:13 <phenny> 00F6: LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH DIAERESIS (ö)
12:01:16 <phenny> 022A: LATIN CAPITAL LETTER O WITH DIAERESIS AND MACRON (Ȫ) [...]
12:01:57 <sbp> .reload codepoint
12:02:00 <phenny> sbp: <module 'modules.codepoint' from '/home/sbp/phenny/modules/codepoint.py'> (version: 2006-04-04 11:57:00)
12:02:01 <sbp> .char a\
12:02:03 <phenny> a - Latin Small Letter A (a)
12:02:11 <sbp> I KEEL YOU!
12:02:18 <JibberJim> crschmidt!
12:02:23 <crschmidt> JibberJim!
12:02:25 <phenny> crschmidt: 10:29Z <sbp> tell crschmidt that I've been working on a summary of the state of affairs and future of RSS 1.1 and am planning to send it to the rss-dev mailing list and would very much like to talk about it before doing so
12:02:25 *** Arnia (n=dcs3jrg@e-sci006.dur.ac.uk) has joined #swhack
12:02:26 <bsh> @translate german to english "kielholen"
12:02:29 <supybot> bsh: keel-get
12:02:41 <sbp> .reload codepoint
12:02:43 <phenny> sbp: <module 'modules.codepoint' from '/home/sbp/phenny/modules/codepoint.py'> (version: 2006-04-04 11:57:39)
12:02:44 <sbp> .char a\
12:02:47 <phenny> à - Latin Small Letter A With Grave (à)
12:02:48 <sbp> .char o:
12:02:50 <phenny> ö - Latin Small Letter O With Diaeresis (ö)
12:02:55 <sbp> crschmidt!
12:03:17 <crschmidt> morning sbp
12:03:47 <bsh> ah, to careen, to keelhaul...
12:03:58 <sbp> I mention you too, bsh/bjoern_
12:04:46 * bjoern_ hopes not in the context of "to careen" somebody ...
12:05:32 <bsh> .compare careen keelhaul kielholen
12:05:35 <phenny> careen (650,000), keelhaul (247,000), kielholen (18,600)
12:05:43 <bsh> l4m3.
12:07:26 *** bjoern_h (n=bjoern@dslb-084-057-247-188.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #swhack
12:07:44 *** gromgull has quit ()
12:07:59 <bjoern_h> Hello World.
12:08:30 <bjoern_h> Hello Monty!
12:08:30 <Monty> maybe
12:08:40 <bjoern_h> Maybello Monty.
12:08:41 <Monty> Abweichung
12:08:41 *** DrBacchus (n=rbowen@63.174.94.2) has joined #swhack
12:08:42 <Monty> But what does DrBacchus have to do with the price of fish?
12:08:45 <phenny> Hush there, Monty.
12:08:46 <Monty> something made by others
12:08:54 <bjoern_h> Ooh, who taught Monty german?
12:08:57 <Monty> if (map == posters) { swimming pool likes alreet goggles;}
12:09:11 <DrBacchus> Monty: More than you know, little bot.
12:09:13 <Monty> came to various proposed methods
12:09:23 <bjoern_h> .pc ö
12:09:26 <phenny> UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf8' codec can't decode byte 0xf6 in position 0: unexpected end of data (file "/usr/lib/python2.4/encodings/utf_8.py", line 16, in decode)
12:09:33 <bsh> ah, lame Opera IRC client.
12:10:26 <crschmidt> sbp: I think that my general feeling for a long time has been that, primarily, RSS 1.1 was a bugfix intended to hold people over until Atom came out
12:10:37 <crschmidt> I never intended to beat Atom -- that'd be impossible with what we did
12:10:47 <bjoern_h> .pc ö
12:10:49 <phenny> 00F6: LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH DIAERESIS (ö)
12:10:59 <crschmidt> So it might be worthwhile to advise people that the new standard to choose over RSS 1.1 is Atom, explicitly
12:11:01 <bjoern_h> wow, well hidden that option...
12:11:24 <crschmidt> Other than that, your email lsums up pretty much everything that I think
12:12:10 <sbp> yeah, I was wondering about that
12:12:46 *** gromgull (n=grimnes@pc-205.dfki.uni-kl.de) has joined #swhack
12:12:46 <crschmidt> I always told people we weren't competing with Ato
12:12:47 <crschmidt> m
12:12:49 <crschmidt> and I meant it!
12:12:56 <crschmidt> There *was* no Atom release at the time
12:13:00 <crschmidt> nothing that was supposed to be used
12:13:17 <crschmidt> now that there is, and there's no major issues with it, RSS 1.1 is a non-starter
12:14:16 *** AaronSw (n=AaronSw@pool-68-160-176-194.bos.east.verizon.net) has joined #swhack
12:15:01 <AaronSw> heh, ceglowski?
12:15:12 <AaronSw> yep
12:15:19 *** gromgull has quit (Client Quit)
12:15:46 <sbp> oh, I hadn't noticed that
12:15:47 <bjoern_h> .gc "RSS 1.1 pwns"
12:15:49 <phenny> "RSS 1.1 pwns": 0
12:15:57 <sbp> he needs to fix his languid thing. perhaps he has actually...
12:16:00 <sbp> yo AaronSw!
12:16:12 <AaronSw> hi!
12:16:23 <AaronSw> I think he did fix languid
12:16:24 <sbp> nope, he hasn't. "socket: IO::Socket::INET: connect: Connection refused at /local/www/cantbedone.org/languid/doc/ident.pl line 41."
12:16:38 <AaronSw> http://languid.cantbedone.org/ works
12:16:48 <sbp> really? not for me
12:16:50 <AaronSw> ah, the api is down tho, you're right
12:16:56 <sbp> ah, phew, not just for me
12:17:10 <AaronSw> how're things?
12:17:16 <AaronSw> I'm currently trying to write blame for wikipedia
12:17:34 <AaronSw> and it looks like they're too cheap to actually store all the revisions, which makes it difficult
12:18:07 <sbp> I wanted to use languid in this:
12:18:15 <sbp> phenny: "Je voudrais une bière, s'il vous plaît!"?
12:18:19 <phenny> sbp: "I would like a beer, please!" (fr)
12:18:31 <sbp> things are going okay, thanks. I'm pretty tired
12:18:32 <crschmidt> the code is there
12:18:37 <crschmidt> http://languid.cantbedone.org/Language-Guess.tgz
12:18:41 <sbp> crschmidt: but it's perl! EVIL!
12:18:57 <crschmidt> conver it.
12:19:02 <AaronSw> heh
12:19:02 *** gromgull (n=grimnes@pc-212.dfki.uni-kl.de) has joined #swhack
12:19:15 <AaronSw> have you seen chardet?
12:19:21 <sbp> hoping to do some more work and so on now, including answering email which I haven't done for many months now as you may know... :-)
12:19:34 <sbp> chardet: yeah, I even uploaded it to http://inamidst.com/encnorm/chardet/ to use in that service
12:19:44 <sbp> then I can have an auto-detect input mode
12:19:46 <AaronSw> I thought you were just pointedly ignoring me. ;-)
12:19:52 <sbp> heh, nope
12:19:54 <AaronSw> been feeling ok?
12:20:10 <sbp> mostly, yeah. just a bit brained
12:20:14 <sbp> thanks. how about you?
12:20:22 <sbp> all the Reddit stuff is mighty exciting!
12:20:25 <AaronSw> yep
12:20:33 <AaronSw> been sick and busy
12:20:52 <sbp> I did try out infogami, of course. but who could beat Ash's zamboni page?
12:20:57 <bsh> .gc "my girlfriend is directx"
12:20:57 <AaronSw> hard to top
12:20:59 <phenny> "my girlfriend is directx": 0
12:21:00 <sbp> aye
12:21:20 <bjoern_> .g Step In The Arena by division zero
12:21:23 <phenny> bjoern_: http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=9109
12:22:07 <sbp> so what's next in Swartzland? presumably you're continuing with Redditogami for the forseeable future?
12:22:48 <AaronSw> yep
12:22:50 <sbp> tip: call the next version Infogamir 2.0 (Beta)
12:22:56 <AaronSw> heh
12:23:09 <AaronSw> probably going to be switching tactics for a bit, tho
12:23:10 <sbp> have you seen Google Pages?
12:23:12 <AaronSw> yep
12:23:25 <sbp> and Wikicalc?
12:23:32 <AaronSw> the bricklin thing?
12:23:35 <sbp> yeah
12:23:43 <AaronSw> yep
12:23:48 <AaronSw> dabbledb is cool as well
12:23:52 <sbp> good. you're on the ball then
12:23:55 <sbp> ooh, haven't seen that
12:23:59 <sbp> .g dabbledb
12:24:02 <phenny> sbp: http://www.dabbledb.com/
12:24:22 <sbp> aha
12:24:31 *** bjoern_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
12:24:35 <crschmidt> AaronSw: are you back in Boston-area now? or are you still hiding out in NY/elsewhere?
12:24:40 *** bjoern_h has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
12:24:42 <AaronSw> back in boston
12:25:20 <AaronSw> somerville right now, technically
12:25:24 <crschmidt> ew
12:25:26 <crschmidt> ;)
12:25:30 <AaronSw> yeah
12:25:45 <AaronSw> every morning the first thing I do is walk the two blocks to cambridge
12:26:09 <AaronSw> just to get out of this nightmarish landscape
12:26:27 <sbp> no more MIT building? shame
12:26:38 <crschmidt> looks like infogami is behind on features -- you haven't released on for 68 hours!
12:26:45 <sbp> the tetris reject was cool
12:26:57 <crschmidt> also, am the only person for who the little hours graphic blinks when it refreshes?
12:27:46 <AaronSw> what browser?
12:28:01 <sbp> "To keep his mind alert, he solves Sudoku problems while he sleeps."
12:28:02 <crschmidt> firefox 1.5.0.1 on mac
12:28:02 <AaronSw> I think we're gonna have to shut down the feature clock for a couple weeks
12:28:31 <crschmidt> It didn't do ti the first time I looked, but it has for the past couple weeks. Dunno if that's firefox stupidity or what
12:28:35 <sbp> yeah, blinks for me too with same browser on WinXP
12:28:56 <sbp> it's like a blighthouse
12:30:02 *** sbp changed the topic to: ""Big wheel keep on turnin' / Blighthouse stop blighting me with your hateful blight rays!" - Rejected lyrics for CCR's Proud Mary."
12:30:53 <AaronSw> I really do not understand how this Wikipedia code works
12:31:31 <sbp> which bit?
12:31:39 <AaronSw> so I'm trying to grab revisions out of the database
12:31:55 <AaronSw> and it seems like they magically get converted at some point
12:32:14 <AaronSw> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/wikipedia/phase3/includes/Revision.php?rev=1.29&view=auto
12:34:21 <AaronSw> ah, I think I got it
12:38:04 <AaronSw> so the problem is that they have the revisions stored in a bunch of separate mysql clusters and they don't know how to merge them together
12:39:41 <crschmidt> sbp: http://crschmidt.net/services/languid/this%20is%20some%20english%20text
12:40:43 *** schepers has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
12:45:55 <sbp> ooh, sweet. thanks
12:46:17 <crschmidt> it doesn't seem to work right for short text
12:46:29 <crschmidt> not sure what the defiiniition of 'short' is
12:46:32 <crschmidt> but it just returns null
12:47:32 <sbp> under 20 input characters
12:49:22 <crschmidt> return { name => 'too short', score => 1 } if length($sample) < $MIN_LENGTH;
12:49:27 <crschmidt> it should still return that...
12:50:30 <crschmidt> fixed
12:59:54 *** JibberJim has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
13:01:40 *** MoiraA has quit (Nick collision from services.)
13:01:48 *** MoiraA is now known as Moira
13:02:18 <sbp> ooh. just got asked to take part in a MORI poll
13:02:24 <sbp> it's about time
13:03:21 <sbp> crschmidt: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rss-dev/message/7355
13:03:35 <sbp> whoops, I included "Subject: " in the subject line
13:03:40 <sbp> makes me chuckle though
13:07:08 *** thelsdj_ (n=thelsdj@24-116-69-69.cpe.cableone.net) has joined #swhack
13:07:20 <bsh> right, I unsubscribed from that list a few days ago...
13:08:53 *** schepers (n=schepers@66-194-222-226.gen.twtelecom.net) has joined #swhack
13:09:35 * bsh wonders whether he should ununsubscribe...
13:11:40 <bsh> .g twe is the spearhead of the RSS 1.1 revolution
13:11:45 <phenny> bsh: http://gamezone.cz/Clanek.asp?idC=2765&idK=62245
13:18:56 <Arnia> TWEEEEEEEEEEEEE
13:18:59 <Arnia> Ahem
13:19:07 *** thelsdj has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
13:19:20 <Arnia> RANDOM CRANAGE!
13:20:32 <bsh> loelzers send pics omg rlotf
13:22:16 <bsh> .gc yaml syndication
13:22:16 <bsh> .gc json syndication
13:22:18 <phenny> yaml syndication: 31,800
13:22:21 <phenny> json syndication: 117,000
13:22:27 *** JibberJim (n=none@dsl-217-155-144-152.zen.co.uk) has joined #swhack
13:22:44 <bsh> .gc "Censored Site Summaries"
13:22:47 <phenny> "Censored Site Summaries": 0
13:27:31 *** kpreid has quit ()
13:28:08 *** kpreid (n=kpreid@24-52-49-37.bflony.adelphia.net) has joined #swhack
13:28:08 <Monty> welcome, kpreid
13:28:43 <kpreid> No, Monty.
13:28:50 <Monty> hallowed are no function scopes or any transition takes time..and now (IE and thelike are to VC, corp, and me sad that polls a job this again?
13:29:38 <bsh> you sad Monty? :(
13:29:38 <Monty> busy busy.
13:29:54 <bsh> don't work so hard if it makes you sad, Monty.
13:29:55 <Monty> anyway TangerineJeemH ;P
13:36:09 *** gromgull has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
13:51:15 *** jewel (i=jewel@203.107.192.48) has joined #swhack
13:51:49 *** JibberJim has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
13:52:21 *** JibberJim (n=none@dsl-217-155-144-152.zen.co.uk) has joined #swhack
14:03:52 *** gromgull (n=grimnes@pc-204.dfki.uni-kl.de) has joined #swhack
14:05:12 *** Morbus (n=morbus@pool-70-16-197-34.man.east.verizon.net) has joined #swhack
14:13:52 *** gromgull has quit ()
14:14:27 *** gromgull (n=grimnes@pc-204.dfki.uni-kl.de) has joined #swhack
14:52:18 *** danja (n=danja@host89-220.pool80104.interbusiness.it) has joined #swhack
14:53:41 *** Morbus has quit ("http://disobey.com/")
14:56:16 *** gromgull has quit ()
14:58:12 *** gromgull (n=grimnes@pc-212.dfki.uni-kl.de) has joined #swhack
15:00:23 *** bear is now known as bear_afk
15:10:00 *** jewel has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:20:08 *** wallrazer (n=steve@ip67-88-140-254.z140-88-67.customer.algx.net) has joined #swhack
15:20:08 <Monty> But what does wallrazer have to do with the price of fish?
15:20:11 <phenny> Hush there, Monty.
15:20:11 <Monty> Please go on.
15:21:32 *** DrB_Lunch is now known as DrBacchus
15:24:01 *** SethR (n=seth@c-24-22-135-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has joined #swhack
15:24:06 *** Arnia has parted #swhack ()
15:27:23 <SethR> community graffiti ... http://fastblogit.com/permalink/?item=3217
15:31:39 *** _adam_gfx has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:44:26 *** DragonMeat (n=ispert@c-24-8-145-229.hsd1.co.comcast.net) has joined #swhack
15:44:32 <sbp> DragonMeat: hello
15:44:38 <sbp> this is a publically logged channel
15:44:41 <sbp> what do you want?
15:44:49 <crschmidt> heh
15:44:54 <crschmidt> not very verbose today
15:45:03 <sbp> no
15:45:14 <sbp> :-)
15:45:59 <sbp> actually, I'm writing quite a bit of stuff today
15:46:07 <DragonMeat> just wondered where Opera would send me if I clicked on your uri
15:46:36 <sbp> apart from the RSS 1.1 retrospective I've also been doing some /lights/ stuff, and I spent half an hour trying to convince DanC that Microformats + GRDDL might be politically a good idea
15:46:40 <sbp> DragonMeat: aha, neato
15:47:10 <DragonMeat> ran into your uri at http://fastblogit.com
15:47:42 <sbp> plus hCal code, plus stupid questions from Shakespeare postgrads, plus... at the moment I just wrote a script to scrape Yahoo! Groups archives and am backing up one of my own groups with ~350 messages in it
15:47:53 <sbp> DragonMeat: ah. SethR should be around, somewhere
15:48:26 <sbp> that page still redirects me to http://fastblogit.com/cartoons/create.html
15:48:33 <sbp> that can't be right, surely
15:48:42 <DragonMeat> yeah, I can get to seth easier than this -
15:48:44 <sbp> arse:
15:48:45 <sbp> File "./scrape.py", line 33, in text
15:48:45 <sbp> result = r_entity.sub(entity, html)
15:48:45 <sbp> UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xa9 in position 628: ordinal not in range(128)
15:49:19 <DragonMeat> the redirect is just the current fascination - if you are interested in the main stream it's http://fastblogit.com/river/
15:49:33 <sbp> oh, thanks
15:49:38 <sbp> that's pretty confusing
15:50:19 <sbp> SWAG was awesome
15:50:38 <DragonMeat> the /river/ is changeable to anything - yours could be direct by using http://fastblogit.com/sbp/ ; if you actually populated your group with content (;-))
15:51:13 <sbp> feel free to add something for me, if you can
15:52:17 <DragonMeat> you still have to sign in & thus can do it yourself. That's what the little door icon is for. I can't post to your group without your password - which I don't want to have to care for.
15:52:47 <sbp> odd, messages which don't exist. perhaps they're spam I deleted?
15:53:06 <sbp> DragonMeat: not sure I can remember my password either. wonder if it can send a reminder...
15:53:32 <SethR> i guess maybe i should make fastblogit.com go back to the river ... would be more logical
15:53:59 <DragonMeat> You could ask seth to look it up for you or keep trying one until you remember
15:54:15 <sbp> it's stored as plaintext, not crypt format?
15:54:53 <DragonMeat> for now until it becomes a problem - we have an honor system amongst the webadmins
15:55:01 <sbp> ah
15:55:15 * jsled notes never to use fastblogit.com
15:55:17 <sbp> all the same, that leaves it open to being exported by a virus, for example
15:55:26 <sbp> or a stray webadmin, etc.
15:55:46 <sbp> of course, it's probably being sent over the network clear anyway
15:56:21 <sbp> man, scrape.py is quite zippy
15:56:31 <sbp> even with a 1 second delay to avoid hammering groups.yahoo.com
15:57:02 <sbp> it uses http://wwwsearch.sourceforge.net/ClientCookie/ which I now rather recommend
15:57:26 <DragonMeat> to create it you have to pass thru a human test
15:57:36 <sbp> (drop-in replacement for urllib/urllib2 that automatically handles cookies)
15:57:41 <JibberJim> a DNA test?
15:57:49 <sbp> DragonMeat: to create what?
15:58:03 <DragonMeat> a group & password
15:58:13 <sbp> human tests are pretty fallible too. reminds me of Morbus's "wave a tenner at a hobo" test
15:58:27 *** webchick is now known as webchick|zZz
15:59:12 <sbp> ah: http://www.disobey.com/node/1632 - Hobos are Cheap Robots
15:59:23 <SethR> there now http://fastblogit.com/ goes to the river
15:59:23 <sbp> and apparently Morbus is less cheap than me--he'd use a twenty
15:59:32 <sbp> .calc 20 USD in GBP
15:59:34 <phenny> 20 U.S. dollars = 11.4942529 British pounds
15:59:39 <sbp> okay, not much less cheap
15:59:42 <sbp> SethR: thanks!
15:59:45 <DragonMeat> Well, fastblogit is not trying to run a nuclear power plant - it's a nice communication tool. We haven't had any spam that I know of in quite a while.
16:00:32 <DragonMeat> Wow, there's a SethR (;-)
16:00:44 <SethR> feed for the river is http://fastblogit.com/feed/?group=river
16:01:48 <sbp> whoo, all 374 posts archived. only 363 actual posts, though; the other indexes were all removed...
16:03:43 <jsled> SethR: [[[
16:03:43 <jsled> XML Parsing Error: not well-formed
16:03:43 <jsled> Location: http://fastblogit.com/feed/?group=river
16:03:43 <jsled> Line Number 180, Column 223:
16:03:44 <jsled> ]]]
16:04:14 <jsled> ["It's really tasty and easy to chew & it lasts forever!"]
16:04:27 *** giovannit has quit ("Laters..")
16:04:41 <SethR> yep, still reads ok in your aggregator ... something about me not knowing how to deal with & in atom feeds
16:05:33 <DragonMeat> THe giraffe got you (;-))
16:06:10 <SethR> O! , the texture of chaos .. don't you got to love it?
16:06:49 <sbp> just escape & to & and < to <
16:07:24 <SethR> now where was that round tuit?
16:08:04 <DragonMeat> oyasumi nasai
16:08:06 *** gromgull has quit ()
16:08:41 *** DragonMeat has quit ()
16:10:43 <sbp> http://inamidst.com/code/yarchive.py
16:11:23 <sbp> quick 'n' dirty, and only confirmèdly works for one test case
16:13:47 *** _adam_gfx (n=adamhill@c-24-1-64-236.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) has joined #swhack
16:14:39 *** danja has quit ()
16:20:56 <Ash> quick and retarded
16:21:04 *** Moira (n=moira@tor/session/x-eca5ff2a8fab1966) has joined #swhack
16:21:09 * sbp retards Ash
16:27:11 *** MoiraA has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:32:20 *** bjoern_ is now known as bsh
16:33:22 <Ash> haha
16:33:24 <Ash> how's it going sbp
16:34:07 *** AaronSw has quit ()
16:35:40 *** yoz (n=yoz@cowanfamily.plus.com) has joined #swhack
16:41:00 <sbp> not too bad, thanks
16:41:07 <sbp> writing and working on various bits of stuff today
16:41:11 <sbp> listening to Bring it on Home
16:43:09 <bjoern_> @google Mobile
16:43:11 <supybot> bjoern_: Search took 0.36 seconds: Unsupported Browser: <http://www.t-mobile.com/>; Yahoo! Mobile - Find Ringtones, SMS and More for Your Mobile and ...: <http://mobile.yahoo.com/>; Nokia - Nokia on the Web: <http://www.nokia.com/>
16:45:52 <bjoern_> @translate german to english Mobile
16:45:56 <supybot> bjoern_: Mobile one
16:49:46 *** shawnb (n=shawnbro@pool-138-88-249-215.res.east.verizon.net) has joined #swhack
16:49:46 <Monty> hey shawnb
16:50:04 <shawnb> oi Monty
16:50:06 <Monty> honey wipes Death Mountain!
16:50:25 <bjoern_> sweet honey... hi Monty.
16:50:25 <Monty> What does that suggest to you ?
16:50:28 <shawnb> Monty mountain wipes honey death
16:50:30 <Monty> whoo, all error of Big5 tables, e.g.
16:50:53 <bjoern_> I don't know what to think Monty.
16:50:54 <Monty> so low level stuff...
16:51:02 <bjoern_> yeah, very true Monty.
16:51:03 <Monty> daggers sits on skidmarks :(
16:56:43 <clsn> What does AIM not like about me all of a sudden?
16:56:51 <crschmidt> Your hair.
16:57:08 <sbp> it's way too long
16:57:12 <bjoern_> you didn't pay all teh internets taxes.
16:57:15 <sbp> get a haircut, you hippie
16:58:05 <clsn> You're probably right; I was supposed to cut my hair almost a year ago...
16:58:06 <bjoern_> actually, I'm sorry to say but this isn't all of a sudden; it never really liked you.
16:58:18 <bjoern_> and you should not like it either.
17:00:05 <clsn> All this time and it never said anything? And it was seeing my best friend behind my back!
17:09:48 *** eikeon_ (n=eikeon@gandalf.mindlab.umd.edu) has joined #swhack
17:13:00 *** Morbus (n=morbus@morbus.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack
17:13:58 <sbp> Morbus: http://swhack.com/logs/2006-04-04#T15-58-13
17:15:32 <Morbus> its wave a twenty! <g>
17:15:40 <Morbus> ah, you corrected yourself.
17:15:41 <Morbus> lol.
17:16:09 *** MoiraA is now known as Moira
17:16:16 <Morbus> oh, and that game I sent you - doesn't appear to do parties well.
17:16:20 *** MoiraA|afk is now known as MoiraA
17:16:29 <Morbus> as in, it's all NPC parties only - you don't appear to team up.
17:16:45 <sbp> so it's basically single player?
17:16:59 <Morbus> well, no, we can see each other.
17:17:04 <Morbus> but we can't attack the same thing.
17:17:09 <sbp> ...
17:17:28 <sbp> we can see each other but can't attack the same thing? and they call it a MMORPG?
17:18:15 <sbp> phenny: destroy First Star Online Stratics
17:18:25 <phenny> ...
17:18:48 <sbp> oh I see, it's player vs. player basically
17:19:11 <sbp> i.e. do your own thing then get rated against other players
17:19:41 <Morbus> I think.
17:19:51 <Morbus> I'm still working on my Drupal GameAPI. Someday, it'll be usable <g.
17:21:11 <Morbus> Nearly finished with the chargen system. Working on the maps next.
17:21:18 <Morbus> Chargen should be finished tonight or tomorrow, I think.
17:21:53 <sbp> did you reach any resolution on the way the maps should fit together?
17:22:00 <sbp> LegoMaps(TM)
17:22:00 *** madewokherd (n=urk@VRP5000.rhbd.psu.edu) has joined #swhack
17:22:09 <sbp> they're Yiffy(TM)
17:22:42 <Morbus> well, i'm gonna stick with http://feast-or-fa.mine.nu:8888/~morbus/w_terrain_24_2.html, I think.
17:23:00 <Morbus> the CSS will all be dynamically generated, so they'll be some headers and some inline on the div's themselves.
17:23:28 <Morbus> At first though, I"m only going to be working on just textual moving between rooms.
17:23:31 <sbp> no, I mean like awareness of objects
17:23:37 <Morbus> once that's working relatively decently, then I'll be doing the imagery.
17:23:45 <Morbus> eh?
17:24:09 <sbp> for example, a shop with lots of objects on the shelves. are the shelves aware of the front desk?
17:24:28 <sbp> can you stack areas on top of one another and have first floors, second floors, etc.?
17:24:39 <Morbus> oh. No, I've not been thinking of that at all - I'd rather leave that up to the map maker and custom programming.
17:24:43 <sbp> ah
17:24:49 <Morbus> and yes, stacking will work on 0,0,0.
17:24:56 <Morbus> 0 is ground, -1 is basement, 1 is first floor.
17:25:00 <Morbus> but that's all relative.
17:25:14 <sbp> I see
17:25:44 <Morbus> so, just cos house:0,0,1 is the first floor.
17:25:51 <Morbus> doesn't mean that outside:0,0,1 is "first floor".
17:25:55 <Morbus> It could be halfway up a tree.
17:26:04 <sbp> heh
17:26:04 <Morbus> It's not the code's decision - it's the mapmakers.
17:26:12 <sbp> if it even exists at all
17:26:16 <Morbus> right.
17:26:33 *** DrBacchus is now known as DrB_Lunch
17:26:46 * Ash blows it up
17:27:17 <Morbus> at the moment, I'm leaning toward room files per function.
17:27:22 <Morbus> or per array. I'm not entirely sure yet.
17:27:48 <Morbus> if we're in 0,0,0, I can function_exist to room_name_1_1_0()
17:28:05 <Morbus> or, if it's an array, simply isset($rooms['1,1,0')/.
17:28:33 <Morbus> I'm not entirely sure which is the stronger approach. I have misgivings about sucking in the entire array into the main space.
17:28:40 <Morbus> and that's satisifed by moving to function names.
17:28:46 <Morbus> but either way, the entire fire is being parsed.
17:29:27 <DrBacchus> You're parsing fire?
17:29:31 <DrBacchus> Isn't that dangerous?
17:29:45 <Morbus> *file.
17:29:46 <Morbus> ;)
17:32:53 <Morbus> I'm being told that "isset is a (Zend Engine) construct while almost everything else (like function_exist) is a PHP function "
17:32:58 <Morbus> so, theoretically, isset would be faster.
17:34:08 <Morbus> which would mean something like: forest_rooms { $array['0,0,1'] = stuff; return $array; }
17:38:42 <Morbus> <Morbus> well, the array wouldn't be programmatically created - it'd all me painstakingly user created.
17:38:42 <Morbus> <Morbus> so, 1000000 element arrays are roughly 5 years away ;)
17:38:42 <Morbus> <Morbus> when memory and processing power would make the benchmark irrelevant, I'd think.
17:38:42 <Morbus> <chx> function_exists will be slower because it needs to look at a runtime array
17:38:42 <Morbus> <chx> as it needs to correspond to create_function
17:38:43 <Morbus> <chx> so it's not like the tokenizer builds the array of function and function_exists looks into that
17:38:45 <Morbus> <chx> no, function_exists really needs to be a php function
17:38:47 <Morbus> <Morbus> I'll stick with arrays then. the adjoining rooms discovery code is pretty simple, so switching from an isset to a function_exists won't be difficult should it become necessary.
17:40:20 <DrBacchus> __call() is what you're looking for.
17:40:28 <DrBacchus> Implement *EVERYTHING* as __call() functions.
17:40:36 * DrBacchus whistles innocently
17:41:01 <Morbus> DrBacchus: you better be listening. Once we finish the book, you're gonna help me on this.
17:41:03 <Morbus> <g>
17:41:25 <DrBacchus> d'oh!
17:41:31 * DrBacchus reads scrollback
17:41:41 <Morbus> and sbp will get commit access to a ghyll svn for the framework.
17:41:44 <Morbus> <g>
17:41:46 * Morbus has grande dreams.
17:52:41 <sbp> commit access! winnahr!
17:53:30 <Morbus> right.
17:56:05 *** est (n=est@user-2ivfi2d.dialup.mindspring.com) has joined #swhack
18:08:52 *** eikeon__ (n=eikeon@gandalf.mindlab.umd.edu) has joined #swhack
18:08:53 *** eikeon_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
18:11:05 *** JibberJim has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:16:02 *** bear_lunch is now known as bear
18:21:38 <bjoern_> "Every time people mis-represent what Microsoft is doing, god kills a kitten."
18:21:47 <bjoern_> that's not very nice of him.
18:31:08 <sbp> Emeril LeGoinegasque!
18:31:09 *** gromgull (n=grimnes@p54A689AA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #swhack
18:31:32 <Morbus> at least he admits there are many gods.
18:31:44 <sbp> we should set up a Trashspotting Club
18:35:53 *** BigJibby (n=matt@mtl58-11b-169-110.dialup.sprint-canada.net) has joined #swhack
18:43:29 <SethR> too much trash to spot it all
18:43:51 <SethR> would haf to be really really good trash
18:44:18 *** BigJibby has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
18:49:04 *** BigJibby (n=matt@149.99.158.231) has joined #swhack
19:29:18 *** BigJibby has quit (Remote closed the connection)
19:43:07 <wallrazer> yo
19:43:10 <wallrazer> sup all
19:43:41 <sbp> souep!
19:44:20 * wallrazer wakes up from html/ccs induced stupor
19:45:47 <wallrazer> morbus: what's the news
19:45:55 <wallrazer> you start a new gig yet?
19:46:26 <Morbus> my last day here is apr 20th, and i'm starting a new gig next Monday.
19:46:35 <wallrazer> ah
19:46:36 <Morbus> which should be interesting, as I work two full timers.
19:46:41 <crschmidt> heh
19:46:46 <Morbus> and write a book.
19:46:50 <wallrazer> so which of the possibilities did you end up with?
19:46:56 <Morbus> can't say yet.
19:47:04 <wallrazer> wtf.
19:47:06 <sbp> he's working for the NSA
19:47:13 * wallrazer beats morbus sbout the head and shoulders
19:47:30 <sbp> in their Psychological Warfare department
19:47:41 <wallrazer> morbus IS psychological warfare
19:48:09 <wallrazer> they just start inserting DISOBEY in random foreign and domestic phone calls
19:48:16 <sbp> he is a good choice of test subj^W^Wemployee, yes
19:48:56 <sbp> get him to jizz up the legs of suspect spies until they relent and tell all, etc., yeah
19:49:16 <est> sbp: so naughty
19:49:21 *** sbp changed the topic to: "That's Our Morbus!"
19:49:36 <sbp> est: well, just try telling the NSA that
19:49:47 <sbp> they speak to you, you don't speak to them
19:49:47 <Morbus> <director> and... cut to the commercial. beautiful
19:49:54 <sbp> hehe
19:50:55 *** bear is now known as bear_lunch
19:53:01 <sbp> .gc Meteorinfomatics
19:53:03 <phenny> Meteorinfomatics: 0
19:53:05 <sbp> .gc Meteoinfomatics
19:53:08 <phenny> Meteoinfomatics: 0
19:53:34 <bancus> .gc Meateor
19:53:37 <phenny> Meateor: 355
19:54:26 <sbp> .gc Beefeor
19:54:29 <phenny> Beefeor: 1
19:54:33 <sbp> .g Beefeor
19:54:36 <phenny> sbp: http://www.writing.com/main/books/entry_id/361382
19:55:00 <sbp> "Ye sheep has endeured meuch beefeor comeeeng here, has eet net? Eet servived meny trebles beefer zis. And yet eet ees I, on zis lewlee warcrueeser, thet caeptuered ye. I shell bee reewerded meeny teemes fer zis."
19:55:26 <sbp> Dutch astronaut?
19:55:30 <bancus> heh
19:56:32 <bjoern_> hmm, mother isa daughter isa women isa human, or
19:56:32 <bjoern_> (mother, daughter) isa woman isa human?
19:57:13 <sbp> bjoern_: rdf:type is what you're looking for
19:57:28 <sbp> actually, you're not
19:57:50 <sbp> unless some of those are variables, which is how I took it
19:58:08 <bjoern_> how about inheritance in OO-design?
19:58:25 <sbp> okay, now we're talking
19:58:25 * bjoern_ 's got a software engineering exam tomorrow... not well prepared...
19:58:30 <sbp> aha
19:58:44 <bjoern_> and this one is a easy one really ...
19:58:49 <kpreid> bjoern_: 'is-a' is often misused to refer to subtype relations
19:58:55 <bancus> techinically all mothers must also be daughters, (unless you're a creationist)
19:59:03 <bancus> but they may not always function as a daughter
19:59:04 <sbp> I would say Woman extends Human, certainly. Daughter is an equivalent class
19:59:12 <kpreid> it is useful to realize that "a" in English can be read as "instance of", roughly
19:59:15 <sbp> Mother extends the Woman/Daughter class
19:59:15 <Ash> stop trying to represent everything
19:59:30 <clsn> Daughter is more of a role than a class.
19:59:32 * sbp hits Ash over the head with CyC
19:59:36 <kpreid> so "a Woman is a Human" but not "Woman is a Human" (unless you're doing prototype OO)
19:59:46 <bancus> clsn: is a mother not a class?
20:00:16 <kpreid> "mother" is a class. a mother is an object
20:00:19 <clsn> Obv it's also a class. But mother, like daughter, focusses on Woman in a particular role.
20:00:27 <sbp> Daughter can be a class. daughter and mother can both be properties. they're inverse for a particular subPropertyOf mother
20:00:43 <clsn> Mother being even more restrictive, since all women are also daughters, but not all are mothers.
20:00:54 <clsn> (though some may be muthuhs, but that's something else entirely)
20:01:06 <kpreid> bjoern_: also, that which a class isa is a metaclass
20:01:17 <kpreid> (which is just a class of classes, of course)
20:01:19 <bjoern_> do you guys also do system sequence diagrams, activity networks, cyclomatic complexity analysis and this kind of stuff?
20:01:29 <kpreid> not all OO systems reify metaclasses
20:01:51 <sbp> in RDF, class is a member of itself
20:01:56 <clsn> Since forall x, x isa Daughter iff x isa Woman, the two classes are identical in extension. But not necessarily in intension, which is where the role sorta comes in.
20:02:17 <bancus> clsn: unless you "use Genesis;"
20:02:38 <clsn> bancus: there is that. And I respond by blowing a raspberry at you.
20:02:42 <bancus> :P
20:03:03 <kpreid> bancus: or if you want to model ancestry to before sexual reproduction
20:03:04 <sbp> or even without that: there must be a point there some human was the first even in evolutionary terms
20:03:16 * bjoern_ waits for someone to bring up the hen-egg paradoxon...
20:03:30 <kpreid> bjoern_: you missed the end signal
20:03:32 <sbp> and what about hemaphrodites?
20:03:44 <clsn> sbp: ah, but that runs afoul of continuity. Can we find an exact *point* where to draw that line? Any proposal will be easily shown to be arbitrary.
20:08:55 <clsn> hermaphrodites indeed pose a problem linguistically, which is generally best dealt with by faking it, as usual.
20:08:56 <sbp> you might be able to define it as a certain percentage of shared DNA with the current average human genome
20:08:56 <wallrazer> in all the fiction i've read, hermaphrodites were referred to by the psychological gender chosen
20:08:56 <clsn> sbp: yeah, yeah, you can define it any way you want. And it'll be pretty damn arbitrary.
20:08:56 <sbp> it'll still be arbitrary, but you might have a nice round number
20:08:56 <bancus> wallrazer: how much hermaphroditic fiction have you read?
20:08:56 <wallrazer> um...
20:08:56 <clsn> You have a parent and a child, who for all intents and purposes seem an awful lot alike, but one has 97 more base-pairs in common with Platonic Human and so one is human and one isn't??
20:08:56 <wallrazer> bit of sci fi back in the day
20:08:56 <sbp> the Queen might proclaim that to be Human is to be British
20:08:56 <crschmidt> Given that currently there's less than 10% difference in DNA between the most different lifeforms on earth...
20:08:56 <jessica> To be human is to have an odd case of self-loathing?
20:08:56 <bancus> "Man is the animal that laughs."
20:08:56 <clsn> In real life, too, they generally choose a gender with which they identify and whose pronouns they use.
20:08:56 <crschmidt> I'd hesitate to call any number that defines a difference between humans and apes "round" ;)
20:08:56 <sbp> the British self-loathe? I don't think we do. we at least dislike the French, the Germans, and the Americans--and the Aussies--more
20:08:56 <jessica> I didn't say you didn't have an odd sense of superiority.
20:08:56 <jessica> You just have a highly refined sense of self-loathing, as well.
20:08:56 <sbp> the Aussies for cricket, the Germans for WWII, the Americans for the revolutionary war (and WWII, and GWB), and the French because... we don't even need a reason
20:08:56 <clsn> You can be self-loathing and still loathe everyone else more.
20:08:56 <jessica> "We will punish ourselves with horrid cuisine and boring cultural landmarks, but we are certainly better than everyone else, at any rate."
20:08:56 <bjoern_> I thought it's because we've got http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2105519,00.html bigger brains?
20:08:56 <sbp> but I don't think we *are* self-loathing
20:08:56 <clsn> "Boy, we suck. But you suck worse."
20:08:56 <sbp> we're still so proud of ourselves for discovering tea!
20:08:56 <crschmidt> nothing to be proud of, imho
20:08:58 <wallrazer> my first actual artistic endeavor in my new moleskine: http://www.wallrazer.com/static/welcome_to_the_occupation.pdf
20:09:14 <clsn> Whatever would the Indians, Asians, et al do if you hadn't invented it? :)
20:09:15 <sbp> yeah, yeah. go throw some in the river, stamp duty boy
20:09:15 <crschmidt> .seen redmonk
20:09:15 <phenny> Sorry, I haven't seen redmonk around.
20:09:20 <crschmidt> hm
20:09:30 <clsn> lol
20:09:30 <sbp> hmm. oh, because he's razing walls now
20:09:36 <sbp> .seen wallrazer
20:09:38 <phenny> sbp: I last saw wallrazer at 2006-04-04 20:04:01 UTC on #swhack
20:10:02 <sbp> clsn: yeah, my point exactly. we give them tea and then India pounds us at cricket
20:10:08 <sbp> what did we ever do to the Indians!
20:10:34 <clsn> You? What did WE ever do to the Indians? Oh yeah, screwed them out of just about everything and sicced diseases on them. Nevermind.
20:10:34 <bjoern_> you put milk into their tea?
20:10:37 <clsn> Different Indians though.
20:10:48 <clsn> (and for that matter, different "we")
20:12:02 <sbp> .gc cowboyz and ind1ans
20:12:02 <phenny> cowboyz and ind1ans: 0
20:12:02 <bjoern_> .gc I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor any form of diagram, especially the UML ones
20:12:02 <phenny> I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor any form of diagram, especially the UML ones: 10
20:12:08 <kpreid> .gc "indian endian"
20:12:15 <phenny> "indian endian": 8
20:12:20 <clsn> It's a little hard to believe that there's 7 whole IQ points between German and British averages, let alone down to Serbia. 7 isn't a lot, but it's half a sigma!
20:12:44 <bjoern_> .calc sigma / 2
20:12:47 <phenny> bjoern_: Sorry, no result.
20:13:21 <clsn> Half a standard deviation, that is. IQ points are normalized to 15 or 16 points per standard deviation (depending on the scale, some do 15 and some 16. It's annoying)
20:15:02 <bancus> Goddamnit I hate the PDF browser plugin.
20:15:36 <bjoern_> if it's the adobe one, you can force it to launch the app outside the browser...
20:15:41 <bancus> how?
20:15:55 <clsn> I prefer the external app.
20:16:37 <bjoern_> there is an "Internet" pane in the settings panel
20:16:38 *** eikeon__ has quit ()
20:16:48 <bancus> in acrobat?
20:16:52 <bjoern_> yes
20:16:58 <bjoern_> [x] launch pdf in browser should be the first setting there
20:17:19 <bjoern_> edit / settings - or something like that - to get there
20:17:24 <bancus> k
20:19:59 *** bear_mtg is now known as bear
20:21:28 <bancus> yay, thanks
20:22:12 *** lisppaste2 has quit (Remote closed the connection)
20:23:46 *** lisppaste2 (n=lisppast@common-lisp.net) has joined #swhack
20:23:46 <Monty> howdy, lisppaste2
20:24:34 *** eikeon_ (n=eikeon@gandalf.mindlab.umd.edu) has joined #swhack
20:32:11 <bancus> http://wiki.rubyonrails.com/rails/pages/ErrorUsingFPDFWithJPGOrPNGOnMacOS
20:32:17 <bancus> Prime example of what's wrong with WikiWords.
20:32:58 <SethR> bjoern, apparently pdf dont launch in the browser regardless of the "Internet" setting ... even though they did at one time, till somebody screwed up some specification trying to be intelligent
20:33:09 <DrBacchus> bancus: Sure, for folks that happen to agree with you.
20:33:17 *** bear is now known as bear_mtg
20:37:22 *** yoz has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
20:38:54 <bancus> People disagree that that title is unreadable?
20:42:05 <bjoern_> IThinkTheTitleIsNotVeryReadableButCanStandIt...
20:42:06 <deltab> it's more legible than many forms of leetspeak
20:42:30 <deltab> though that's not saying much
20:42:34 <bjoern_> vaqrrq, vg'f zber ernqnoyr guna ebg13 nfjryy!
20:44:27 <deltab> below what I'd expect for part of a URL, though
20:45:25 <bancus> deltab: and the title of the page
20:45:26 <bancus> it is a wiki
20:45:52 <bancus> I actually sat there for a couple seconds wondering WTF JPGO is
20:46:21 <sbp> JPGZ0r
20:46:22 <bancus> and PNGO for that matter
20:48:12 <bjoern_> Well, I thought it's for some Patent N G Office before I read the rest...
20:49:19 <bjoern_> SethR, the option works for me as expected, actually
20:51:39 <bjoern_> hurray, I finished my first sequence diagram! :)
20:51:39 <bjoern_> and it does not utterly confuse me, so it's probably wrong :(
20:52:55 <bjoern_> I really wish I could understand why anything that involves diagrams is almost impossible for me to understand...
20:54:33 <bancus> Because diagrams are a natural impediment to understanding.
20:55:44 <wallrazer> not if you're a visual person - i find diagrams very useful
20:55:55 <deltab> maybe your brain works like Larry Wall's
20:56:25 <wallrazer> although slightly moreso in the creation thereof rather than the consumtion thereof
20:56:35 * wallrazer ph34rs
20:56:51 <deltab> when he sees icons, he has to work out what words they represent before they make sense to him
20:57:02 <deltab> iirc
20:57:47 <wallrazer> nah, i'm more likely to visualize a discussion as a matrix or network
20:57:59 <wallrazer> rather than vice versa
21:01:40 <deltab> hmm, having difficulty finding a reference for that, due to people quoting him on other things
21:04:16 <wallrazer> i always thought that selective synaesthesia would be cool
21:05:56 <deltab> it's called syntax highlighting :-)
21:07:50 <deltab> I agree, actually
21:08:46 <deltab> we have some of that in syntax highlighting
21:09:02 <wallrazer> imagine the interesting analytical applications, if you could use synaesthesia like a real-world sensory pivot table
21:09:51 <bancus> ...
21:10:02 <bancus> My dad (I work with him) put an agent field in the quotes database.
21:10:13 <bancus> He wrote himself in that field for a quote as "Reed".
21:10:18 <bancus> (Which is our last name.)
21:10:29 <bancus> Way to be specific, Mr. Reed.
21:10:37 <wallrazer> heh
21:10:58 <bancus> I so, so, so badly want to redo the DB.
21:11:02 <bancus> It's in Access. :(
21:11:42 *** DrBacchus has quit ("Home")
21:25:59 *** eikeon_ has quit ()
21:36:01 *** schepers has quit (Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable))
21:49:52 *** est has quit ("Lost terminal")
21:58:25 *** Morbus has quit (Remote closed the connection)
22:01:44 <sbp> heh! "It was from Washington Village that the ancestors of George Washington, the first President of the United States, emigrated to Virginia in 1657. Ironically they emigrated because of their Royalist sympathies." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington%2C_Tyne_and_Wear
22:02:42 <Ash> heh
22:02:45 <Ash> die royalists!
22:02:48 <nsh> wasn't washingtons
22:02:54 <nsh> wasn't washington's brother a royalist?
22:10:48 *** Morbus (n=morbus@pool-70-16-197-34.man.east.verizon.net) has joined #swhack
22:10:49 <Monty> Speak of the devil, it's Morbus!
22:18:32 <thelsdj_> did my first ajax stuff today with rails, was kinda fun
22:20:55 <Ash> thelsdj_: did you use RJS
22:20:57 <Ash> RJS is neato
22:22:52 <thelsdj_> no, haven't updated this to 1.1 yet
22:25:27 *** bjoern_ has quit ("Quit")
22:28:44 *** libby has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:29:45 *** wallrazer has quit ()
22:29:47 *** shawnb has quit ("They mostly disconnect at night... mostly.")
22:30:25 *** cskaterun (n=cskateru@cpe-72-132-232-255.san.res.rr.com) has joined #swhack
22:34:05 <bancus> Baris said more and more white people, or "urban pioneers," have begun looking at East Orange again as a place to live. -- http://today.reuters.com/news/NewsArticle.aspx?type=oddlyEnoughNews&storyID=uri:2006-04-04T124702Z_01_N31349215_RTRUKOC_0_US-CRIME-NEWJERSEY.xml&pageNumber=2&summit=
22:34:13 <bancus> Can I be an "urban pioneer" too?
22:37:51 *** jcowan (n=John@mercury.ccil.org) has joined #swhack
22:38:07 <jcowan> Ittywhonk!
22:38:46 *** est (n=est@user-2ivfi2d.dialup.mindspring.com) has joined #swhack
22:45:15 *** jcowan has quit ("Bailing out")
22:47:51 *** Arnia (n=jgeldart@138-37-101-159.adsl.legend.co.uk) has joined #swhack
22:50:01 *** Morbus has quit ("http://disobey.com/")
23:21:15 <pjz> blert
23:21:42 * Arnia baas like a sheep
23:21:51 <Arnia> Oh, sorry. That's 'bleat'
23:23:16 <Ash> I thought goats bleated
23:23:36 <nsh> I AM THE BLEATOR!
23:23:44 <Arnia> Sheep and goats... what's the difference? Both are homocidal
23:24:12 <nsh> perpendicular vehicular homocide?
23:24:50 <Arnia> In Shropshire they try and nudge you off precipices
23:25:43 <nsh> awesome
23:26:28 * Arnia avoids Shropshire
23:47:25 *** BigJibby (n=matt@149.99.156.176) has joined #swhack
23:49:08 *** cskaterun has quit ()