00:00:36 <Arnia> sbp: interesting thought. Alter reference semantics of pluvo so rather than only referring by identity, one can refer by description
00:01:14 <Arnia> sbp: So you can say that such and such a command works on all closures which unify with such-and-such a closure
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00:17:38 <Monty> it's eel!
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00:56:02 <deltab> unify how?
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01:12:02 <Monty> bah, it's est again
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01:35:43 <est> sorry
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02:04:00 <Arnia> deltab: Structure unification a la HPSG
02:05:03 <Arnia> Think of it like merging database queries with method parameters
02:05:10 <Arnia> Structurally generic methods
02:05:28 <Arnia> Yes it is odd... but quite cool
02:08:04 <deltab> do you have any examples?
02:09:35 <Arnia> Instead of passing into a method a list of all phone numbers, you pass in a closure which unifies with all phone numbers
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03:33:49 * Arnia notes the quietness of deltab
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05:34:22 <Monty> But what does redmonk have to do with the price of fish?
05:34:24 <phenny> Hush there, Monty.
05:34:26 <Monty> 189 lott ave #3a brooklyn ny 11212
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07:08:16 <Monty> hi libby
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08:23:31 <kham> hi, i apologize for my audacity awhile back to announce who i will marry. i am not worthy and deserve to stay single or marry a vn woman. i just was thinking of marrying into a culture so i will work for that culture wholly. but i am not worthy and did not mean to be be audacious with you in any way. i was a bit manicky.
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08:34:07 <Arnia> kham: That is fine. But I'm sure you'll find someone
08:34:34 <Arnia> Just don't presume we're all from the same culture, or we'll all get confused (you included :)
08:37:12 <kham> Arnia: that is a good caveat, thank-you for advising me.
08:37:31 <kham> it
08:38:41 <kham> it is just a drive that we may have to teach my children all the wrong things i did and not to do them. btw, aasop fables are good readings for the youngsters i think.
08:40:43 <Arnia> Yes. As are Grimm's fairy tales (for much the same reason)
08:41:14 <Arnia> I reckon you can learn a lot about a culture from the tales they tell their children
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08:45:03 <kham> yes, your culture has a lot of good. vn just have main tale of the trung sisters http://www.womeninworldhistory.com/heroine10.html with constant fighting it had to do.
08:50:26 <kham> and in peacetime, what little i know of is vn women take care of the husband and children quite well.
09:09:57 <Arnia> I am really coming to hate literature surveys
09:10:19 <Arnia> It is really hard to make them flow correctly
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09:17:05 <kham> correct, the story is a kind of propaganda. how about this newspaper story i read when young: a mother has her kids and no food to eat. they were so hungry that the mother boiled a pot of water then cut her arm and put in pot for the kids to get something to eat. i don't know if that is true or not.
09:19:23 <kham> but that is all in the past to be minded no more.
09:27:30 <kham> speaking for myself and i think for some others, i just want an education, a job, maybe get married and raise a family.
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12:07:53 <sbp> boing
12:08:31 <sbp> "Pluvo is a new dynamic language. It appears to be practical, elegant and malleable. [...] I'm definitely going to be playing with Pluvo. I hope you will too." - http://www.protoscript.net/article/28/
12:08:58 <nsh> mm
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12:09:23 <nsh> what's duck typing?
12:09:26 <nsh> oh
12:09:29 <sbp> duck typing is...
12:09:31 <nsh> as in "walks like, quacks like"
12:09:32 <nsh> yeah
12:09:34 <sbp> yeah, we've been through this
12:09:34 <nsh> all that crap
12:09:36 <sbp> heh, heh
12:09:43 <nsh> i really hate the phrase
12:09:50 <nsh> but we've been through that too :-)
12:09:57 <sbp> think of it more like: "the way something behaves is the way we discriminate it"
12:10:33 * nsh smiles
12:10:44 <nsh> .wik Phenomenalism
12:10:47 <phenny> "In epistemology and the philosophy of perception, phenomenalism is the view that physical objects do not exist as things in themselves but only as perceptual phenomena or sensory stimuli (e.g. redness, hardness, softness, sweetness, etc.) situated in time and in space." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenomenalism
12:10:50 <sbp> Arnia is still by far doing the most work on it and being the most thoughtful, but I'm also getting private responses which are very positive now, and one spectacularly so
12:11:03 <sbp> people just really seem to like it. yay
12:11:12 <nsh> oh cool
12:11:16 <nsh> didn't know this was you guys
12:11:32 * nsh will have a tinker
12:11:37 <sbp> yay
12:15:30 <sbp> .compare overwhelming whelming
12:15:33 <phenny> overwhelming (99,200,000), whelming (713,000)
12:15:35 <sbp> .ety overwhelming
12:15:37 <phenny> Can't find the etymology for "overwhelming". Try http://etymonline.com/?search=overwhelming
12:15:41 <sbp> .ety overwhelm
12:15:44 <phenny> "c.1330, 'to turn upside down, to overthrow,' from over + M.E. whelmen 'to turn upside down' (see whelm)." - http://etymonline.com/?term=overwhelm
12:15:50 <sbp> .compare overwhelm whelm
12:15:53 <phenny> overwhelm (14,100,000), whelm (173,000)
12:15:59 <sbp> .ety whelm
12:16:03 <phenny> "c.1300, probably from a parallel form of O.E. -hwielfan (W.Saxon), -hwelfan (Mercian), in ahwelfan 'cover over;' probably altered by association with O.E. helmian 'to cover' (see helmet)." - http://etymonline.com/?term=whelm
12:16:59 <sbp> heh! "I threw Todd away?" - http://www.achewood.com/index.php?date=07052006
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12:17:05 <nsh> .ety overstand
12:17:08 <phenny> Can't find the etymology for "overstand". Try http://etymonline.com/?search=overstand
12:17:12 <nsh> that's wacist
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12:18:15 <nsh> lol sbp
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12:18:23 <Monty> bah, it's libby again
12:18:33 <nsh> confidence tricks are the ultimate applied psychology
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12:19:14 <Arnia> hey sbp
12:38:08 <sbp> hi there!
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12:48:22 <Matt21> Random question brought on be a random google search for "irc web logging" - what program creates the logs for this channel? Is it a custom swhack?
12:48:58 <JibberJim> It's loggy
12:49:04 <JibberJim> loggy, who's your daddy
12:49:34 <JibberJim> I dunno which one loggy uses, but elsewhere I use http://cvs.ilrt.org/cvsweb/redland/logger/
12:50:02 <sbp> Matt21: yeah, it's a custom bot
12:50:08 <sbp> http://inamidst.com/code/loggy.py
12:50:12 <sbp> dajobe's logger is very good too
12:50:49 <Matt21> Sweet deal :) thanks, who would have thought real conversation could beat google searches ;)
12:51:43 <sbp> heh, heh
12:51:54 <sbp> oh yeah, and hi and welcome and such
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12:52:34 <JibberJim> and this conversation is logged! don't say anything that could ruin your future political career
12:53:50 <Matt21> I noticed on the channel description that people generally frowned upon include "professional java programmers" - while honestly hilarious, I was wondering what personal experiences brought on this broad stereotype?
12:54:10 <crschmidt> Java sux!
12:54:32 <crschmidt> dajobe's loggy is majorly hard to get running sometimes
12:54:37 <crschmidt> I always have to hack Net::IC
12:54:39 <crschmidt> IRC*
12:54:53 <crschmidt> sbp's logger is trivial, It Just Works
12:55:01 <crschmidt> whereas dajobe's seems to have included the kitchen sink
12:55:02 <crschmidt> which is leaky
13:01:57 <Matt21> What is the primary purpose of this channel? Procrastination through philosophical debate? I would have thought there would be more procrastination going on at this time in the morning ;) Then again, perhaps everyone is Eastern European.... not that there's anything wrong with that of course.
13:02:28 <crschmidt> I think the busiest time for this channel is typically in the mid-afternoon eastern time, on into evening
13:02:36 <crschmidt> The people who are here don't tend to be regular sleepers
13:02:37 <crschmidt> except Monty
13:02:39 <Monty> while pressing the work, too.
13:02:41 <crschmidt> he's a sleeper agent
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13:11:27 * nsh smiles
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13:31:05 * Arnia hands sbp a badger
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13:45:34 <JibberJim> Monty, Entertain us
13:45:39 <Monty> https://projects.espnow.com/kalati/browser/sandbox/t/ueberinterface/general.idea.ger.rst?rev=31
13:46:08 <JibberJim> taunting me Monty!
13:46:11 <Monty> Nice dive by typing their life, is popular, that listed.
13:47:18 <Matt21> hmmmm authorization? { No Thanks }
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13:59:52 <bjoern_> <----
13:59:54 <phenny> bjoern_: 03 Jul 12:27Z <darobin> tell bjoern_ that I completely lost the context on this one
14:00:19 <bjoern_> phenny, tell darobin oh, I think it was about the REX schema having AT.whatever anchors duplicates, or so
14:00:22 <phenny> bjoern_: I'll pass that on when darobin is around.
14:01:39 <JibberJim> bjoern_!
14:01:49 <JibberJim> bjoern_!
14:01:50 <JibberJim> bjoern_!
14:01:51 <bjoern_> It is I!
14:02:14 <bjoern_> JibberJim!
14:02:19 <JibberJim> /join #svg etc.
14:02:34 <sbp> OMG!
14:02:39 <bjoern_> ZOMFG!
14:02:44 <sbp> ZOOUGMOF!
14:02:49 <JibberJim> Have you been drowning your sorrows after Germany's defeat?
14:02:51 <bjoern_> that sounds like a terrible idea JibberJim
14:03:06 <JibberJim> or have you been between the thighs of a bad $girl?
14:03:11 <bjoern_> I didn't even bother watching that game
14:03:30 <sbp> I'm going for alien abduction, personally
14:03:45 <bjoern_> uuh, I shouldn't speak about such things here, considering my future political career
14:04:11 *** sbp changed the topic to: "We Found Bjoern. He was on Swhack... we probably should've looked there first"
14:04:58 <sbp> welp, welcome back to the land of the digitiratsi, anyway
14:05:07 <sbp> back to all the tubes and stuff
14:05:34 <JibberJim> tubes and stuff?
14:05:37 <bjoern_> 1hx!!
14:05:58 <sbp> yeah. see http://blog.wired.com/27BStroke6/?entry_id=1512499
14:06:28 <jsled> It's not a truck.
14:06:45 <sbp> yeah, you can't just dump something on it
14:06:51 <sbp> it's a series of tubes, and those tubes get full
14:08:30 <JibberJim> right
14:08:59 <Arnia> closures mm
14:09:06 <sbp> heh, heh
14:09:13 <sbp> how's stuff coming along, Arnia?
14:09:43 <Arnia> ok. Still intrigued by the idea of descriptive referring
14:10:03 <sbp> could you possibly give a very brief summary of the things that you're wanting to augment Pluvo towards to the mailing list please? like a bulleted list just saying about the messaging and the trampolining and... all the other subsequent stuff including the Haskell implementation idea
14:10:20 <Arnia> ok. After 4pm tomorrow
14:10:25 <sbp> excellent, ta!
14:10:43 <sbp> I'll work on a similar statement of what I'm doing etc.
14:10:52 <sbp> not that I'm doing much, just gedankenexperimentation at the moment
14:10:58 <Arnia> :)
14:11:07 <sbp> .gc gedankenexperimentation
14:11:09 <phenny> gedankenexperimentation: 4
14:11:27 <bjoern_> whataterribleword
14:11:31 <bjoern_> .g gedankenexperimentation
14:11:34 <phenny> bjoern_: http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=121481
14:11:45 <bjoern_> now, that's just making it worse.
14:11:48 <Arnia> I have lots of strange ideas
14:11:48 <sbp> .gc gedankenexperiment
14:11:51 <phenny> gedankenexperiment: 211,000
14:12:12 <bjoern_> .gc "thought experiment"
14:12:15 <phenny> "thought experiment": 1,630,000
14:12:25 <JibberJim> .gc "think test"
14:12:28 <phenny> "think test": 21,300
14:12:39 <sbp> .compare [thought experiment] thoughtexperiment [gedanken experiment]
14:12:42 <phenny> thought experiment (66,800,000), gedanken experiment (1,110,000), thoughtexperiment (740)
14:13:04 <bjoern_> .gc thoughtexperimentation
14:13:07 <phenny> thoughtexperimentation: 8
14:13:34 <sbp> gedank would make a great verb
14:13:38 <sbp> "yeah, I'll gedank about it"
14:13:40 <sbp> .gc gedank
14:13:43 <phenny> gedank: 61,200
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14:20:51 <aspect> .gc "mental exercise"
14:20:54 <phenny> "mental exercise": 365,000
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14:33:41 <bjoern_> "porn spam is 280 times more effective than spam advertising pharmacy drugs"
14:34:19 <clsn> Good to know when making career choices.
14:34:39 <bjoern_> "The third most successful variety is spam advertising Rolex watches, 0.0075 percent of which get clicked on"
14:35:12 <bjoern_> "Things like home mortgages have a lower success rate than things you'd buy on impulse. Things like Viagra, porn."
14:36:13 <Arnia> Badger-wholesale is a niche market in spam
14:36:31 <jsled> Pfft. Another example of the TreasonTimes helping the terrorists.
14:36:32 <clsn> That makes sense. I might drop 20 bucks on something that looks interesting, but not hundreds, and not some drawn-out process like refinancing.
14:36:36 <jsled> Telling them how to make money.
14:37:51 <aspect> I'm surprised more people don't buy pharmaceuticals on impulse based on a heavily misspelled advertisement
14:39:37 <bjoern_> "the team found that adolescent rats under the influence of alcohol had far more trouble than did tipsy adult rats when required repeatedly to locate a platform submerged in a tub of cloudy water and swim to it."
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14:45:50 * KjetilKWork is a card-carrying member of amnesty and stuff
14:46:03 <KjetilKWork> but for spammers, I might be willing to make an exception ;-)
14:46:22 * clsn is a card-carrying member of the card-carriers club.
14:46:33 <KjetilKWork> :-)
14:47:00 <clsn> That's mildly funny. I should design a card for that and carry it.
14:47:21 <KjetilKWork> yup
14:55:52 <Matt21> I can't stop laughing about that senator article... I didn't think it was all that funny at first, but then I realized he represents the mental capacity of people who are writing the laws to control the internet.
14:56:24 <jsled> Yeah. He's the head of that committee, IIRC. :(
14:57:10 <jsled> Unsurprisingly, he's a big big-company-IP-rights sponsor, too.
14:57:37 <Matt21> (as long as the internet isn't being used for commercial purposes of course ;)
14:58:59 <jsled> Well, he's particularly of small capacity. Sen. Leahy seems like a good counter-example.
14:59:19 <kandinski> "the Internet is not a truck" is a serious scientific truth. A fact, in fact.
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14:59:32 <kandinski> Internet!=Truck
15:00:07 <kandinski> couple more axioms like that and we have a complete system.
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15:16:57 <Arnia> Black = White
15:17:12 * Arnia is getting the human race ready to be run over on the next zebra crossing
15:27:13 <Matt21> random question for sbp... I realize this is not a tech support channel so a non-reply would be understood, but I'm trying to get logger working but I'm not sure what the <loguri> the script looks for in the arguments is.
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15:29:00 <JibberJim> this isn't a tech support channel?
15:29:18 <Matt21> Or is it? ;)
15:29:35 <Arnia> Is tech support on topic?
15:30:05 <Matt21> not at all
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15:30:37 <Matt21> I finally get it! Internet != truck!
15:30:54 <Matt21> (careful, I just sent everyone an internet)
15:31:13 <crschmidt> Matt21: public web-location of the logs
15:31:17 <crschmidt> loggy: help?
15:31:17 <loggy> I'm a Python IRC logging bot. Source: http://inamidst.com/code/loggy.py Logging to: http://swhack.com/logs/
15:31:22 <crschmidt> "Logging to: "
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15:32:02 <Matt21> publicly writable directory on even a remote web server? that's handy
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15:33:02 <sbp> Matt21: yeah, the loguri is so that when people do "loggy: pointer?" they get an appropriate URI
15:33:05 <sbp> for example:
15:33:07 <sbp> loggy: uri?
15:33:07 <loggy> http://swhack.com/logs/2006-07-06#T15-33-07
15:33:21 <crschmidt> Matt21: no, the bot has to be running on that server
15:33:34 <crschmidt> Matt21: it's basically asking "where is the URL of the directory to which you're writing?"
15:34:58 <sbp> right. so the <logdir> argument is the actual physical address of the directory where the logs get written
15:35:05 <sbp> but loggy.py assumes that they'll be publically readable
15:35:10 <cori[s]|work> matt21: loggy also doesn't natively write html to display - you have to manage that yourself.
15:35:36 <sbp> so you fill in the resulting value as <loguri>. you can just feed it a bogus value if the logs aren't public
15:36:43 <sbp> see http://paste.lisp.org/display/22119 for cori[s]'s example script
15:37:22 <Matt21> Awesome, thanks (=
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15:39:13 <lisppaste2> cori[s] annotated #22119 with "loggy.py sed magic[TM] with sbp's comments" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/22119#1
15:39:32 <cori[s]|work> that one incorporates some comment that sbp made yesterday ^^
15:49:52 <Matt21> what does the [off] tag mean?
15:50:17 <crschmidt> The bot doesn't log lines that start with [off]
15:50:18 <KjetilKWork> I think it is something that might save your political career
15:50:35 <KjetilKWork> but then, I'm new here
15:51:00 <Matt21> What use is a bot if you can hack it ;) It *will* save my political career!
15:51:45 <KjetilKWork> :-)
15:54:51 <cori[s]|work> 's not a hack. It's a Feature ;)
15:56:09 <Matt21> I think the words hack, feature, and bug are all used interchangeably (=
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15:57:57 * KjetilKWork thinks that Matt21 just ruined his political career
15:58:27 <sbp> yeah, it's a feature
15:58:27 <KjetilKWork> I mean, the log will show that sentence about hacks features and bugs
15:58:39 <KjetilKWork> but not the sentence that [off] is a feature
15:58:53 <KjetilKWork> that will most certainly upset someone
15:58:57 <KjetilKWork> ;-)
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16:02:46 <Matt21> If Ted Stevens can make it as a senator, incomplete arguments, sentences, and gross ignorance of the topic of discussion is what we should all be practicing to support our political careers!
16:03:42 <cori[s]|work> I wonder if Ted wishes he had the [off] feature?
16:08:25 <KjetilKWork> hehe
16:08:55 <clsn> I wonder how to make editable fields in PDFs using OpenOffice...
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17:21:29 <nsh-> .ety enmity
17:21:33 <phenny> "c.1300, from O.Fr. enemistie, from V.L. *inimicitatem (nom. *inimicitas), from L. inimicitia 'enmity, hostility,' from inimicus 'enemy' (see enemy)." - http://etymonline.com/?term=enmity
17:21:50 <nsh-> .ety enemy
17:21:53 <phenny> "c.1225, from O.Fr. enemi, from L. inimicus, from in- 'not' + amicus 'friend.' Most words for 'personal enemy' cover also 'enemy in war,' but certain languages have special terms for the latter, e.g." - http://etymonline.com/?term=enemy
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18:09:04 <Arnia> boing
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18:36:32 <JibberJim> .g "malaysian transexual"
18:36:35 <phenny> JibberJim: http://www.brandmalaysia.com/movabletype/archives/2005/11/right_to_decide.html
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19:45:16 *** sbp changed the topic to: "Warning: Do not read beyond this point unless you love science."
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20:05:16 <Monty> yo schepers!
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20:06:15 <Arnia> Monty: Shush
20:06:16 <Monty> thank-you Arnia
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20:08:24 <Arnia> Monty: Would you help me finish my lit review?
20:08:26 <Monty> Interesting. So somehow and your actions
20:09:02 <Arnia> Yeah, need to discuss actions. Lutz has an intriguing description logic extension for modeling change
20:09:14 <Arnia> , Monty
20:09:15 <Monty> Hi di hi guys help people?
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20:41:39 <bancus> monty ping
20:41:41 <Monty> I reckon tea + GIMP = dumps!
20:42:04 <Arnia> ...
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21:58:49 <Monty> Speak of the devil, it's danja!
21:59:26 <Arnia> hey danja
22:00:22 <danja> hiya
22:02:35 <Arnia> How are you?
22:03:31 <danja> pretty good generally! and you?
22:04:50 * danja behind on work, ahead on play
22:06:56 <MoiraA> lol danja
22:06:58 <danja> golly, strat-style pickups don't half quack
22:07:02 <MoiraA> don't you just speak for everyone
22:08:34 * danja spoke for Monty in that last line
22:08:34 <Monty> pushed out their names in PDFs using no sign of regular sleepers
22:09:35 <Arnia> danja: Struggling with finishing this lit review
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22:19:08 <RandyWalker> Mighty Moshin' Emo Rangers: http://emorangers.com/ my favorites are Introspective Emo Ranger and Chaos Mohawk Emo Ranger
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22:22:03 <albo> has anyone run multiple sites with their own cookie domains off of one php web server
22:22:17 <crschmidt> Sure
22:22:47 <albo> crschmidt: how do you handle the cookie domains
22:23:03 <crschmidt> albo: I'm not sure what you mean.
22:23:13 <albo> then how did you say sure
22:23:20 <crschmidt> I typed 'sure'
22:23:28 <albo> im about to type fuck
22:23:29 <crschmidt> Cookies are only made available to PHP if they match the domain you're on
22:23:44 <albo> yes
22:23:59 <crschmidt> And are available via $_COOKIE autoglobal.
22:24:06 <albo> ive messed with ini_set('session.cookie_domain','mysite.com')
22:24:11 <crschmidt> So, what is it that you want to do?
22:24:12 <albo> but i think that would globally set it
22:24:21 <crschmidt> Er, it defaults to the domain you're on
22:24:29 <albo> i want 1 webserver to handle sessions for 2 sites: a.com and b.com
22:24:41 <crschmidt> so if you set a domain while on a.com, you can only get to that data when the user visits a.com
22:24:48 <crschmidt> and same for b.com
22:25:05 <albo> so how do i do that
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22:25:41 <crschmidt> You just use setcookie()
22:25:44 <crschmidt> and it will go to a.com
22:25:58 <crschmidt> session.cookie_domain is only for $_SESSION anyway
22:25:59 <albo> right
22:26:07 <albo> thats all i care about
22:26:26 <crschmidt> Okay, I apparently don't understand what the problem is, I'm sorry.
22:26:29 <crschmidt> maybe ask in ##php
22:27:37 <RandyWalker> "salmon roe—think of all those unborn salmon you're smearing on your toast"
22:27:44 <albo> PHPSESSIONID is the ultimate cookie
22:28:14 <albo> to handle sessions off the same webserver for different domains you need a separate phpsessionid cookie right?
22:28:28 <crschmidt> it will automatically be a different cookie
22:29:02 <albo> the last hour of testing that i did suggests that your statement is false
22:29:19 <albo> i will try setting session.cookie_domain to blank and see if that makes your statement true
22:29:44 <crschmidt> Okay. I've used $_SESSION on dozens of sites on the same server without having interfering data
22:29:51 <crschmidt> but maybe i did something special without knowing it.
22:30:12 <albo> yep
22:30:25 <albo> session.cookie_domain needed to be blank
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23:07:36 <redmonk> anyone every heard of the thurstone exam?
23:07:49 <redmonk> some sort of iq test i think
23:12:19 <jetscreamer> Thurstone Test of Mental Alertness 1952
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23:32:15 <Arnia> Anyone here worked with or at University of Liverpool?
23:38:03 <albo> Arnia: nopehaha. im in new mexico ;-)
23:38:15 <albo> i know no one even remotely connected with that
23:38:18 <albo> sorry
23:39:36 <Arnia> meh. I mean I know Rafael and have had debates with him in the past, and I know he is fair and able to separate his own academic ideas from those of others when evaluating them... but I'm still nervous about this viva
23:39:44 <Arnia> (my PhD thesis proposal viva)
23:42:06 <Arnia> Still, should focus on getting this litreview done
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