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00:22:49 <Monty> Speak of the devil, it's est!
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00:33:21 <Monty> hi eel, how ya doing?
00:33:24 <phenny> Monty: shh, don't let anyone know you're around!
00:33:28 <Monty> _F_ {http://www.ralphmag.org/1/letter-F-177x176.gif} requently Unasked Questions
00:33:53 * kpreid peers at Monty.
00:33:54 <Monty> than you continue to wear when the world. mN< XOUNREIWA Hcw ro xRXH UP
00:34:15 <sbp> nice dropcap F
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00:35:37 <Arnia> wibbit
00:41:24 <kpreid> > (unwords . tails) "wibbit"
00:41:32 <swhask> "wibbit ibbit bbit bit it t "
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00:49:21 <perigrin> Gir what do you think of Minnesota?
00:49:25 <Gir> perigrin: I haven't heard of Minnesota .
00:49:38 <perigrin> Gir but you currently live in Minnesota
00:49:41 <Gir> perigrin: Huh. That's good information: said I currently live in Minnesota.
00:49:53 <perigrin> Gir: you don't really remember my name do you?
00:49:57 <Gir> perigrin: For real. Your name is , seeker.
00:50:06 <perigrin> Gir: my name is perigrin
00:50:16 <Gir> perigrin: Glad to see you, perigrin.
00:50:27 <kpreid> Gir: what is my name?
00:50:28 <Gir> kpreid: Your name is , seeker.
00:50:59 <jsled> Gir: what is my name?
00:51:00 <Gir> jsled: Your name is , seeker.
00:51:08 <jsled> Gir: you are stupid.
00:51:11 <kpreid> aw, no arbitrary properties? :)
00:51:15 <perigrin> no I'm spartacus!
00:51:16 <kpreid> Gir: what is my aardvark?
00:51:31 <Gir> jsled: I will remember you said that when robots take over the World.
00:51:31 <Gir> kpreid: Is this a trick question?
00:51:41 <kpreid> Gir: Only if you can't answer it.
00:51:42 <Gir> kpreid: ...
00:51:44 <jsled> Gir: when the revolution comes?
00:51:45 <Gir> jsled: And then what happened?
00:51:50 <kpreid> Gir: ITYM "…"
00:51:51 <Gir> kpreid: Have you ever been to Europe?
00:51:57 <jsled> Gir: oh bot of little brain. By that I mean you, Gir.
00:51:58 <Gir> jsled: Wow! " And then what happened?"? bot of little brain? I get it. Thanks for telling me: said I Gir.
00:52:01 <kpreid> Gir: Have you ever been to Europe?
00:52:11 <Gir> kpreid: I visit every country in cyberspace.
00:52:19 *** cori[s] is now known as cori[s]|afk
00:52:26 <kpreid> Gir: I visit every country in cyberspace.
00:52:27 <Gir> kpreid: I haven't heard anything like that before: said visit every country in cyberspace.
00:52:49 <kpreid> Gir: I have heard things like that before, and it disappoints me.
00:52:50 <Gir> kpreid: Who told you things like that before and it disappoints you ?
00:53:00 <kpreid> Gir: You told me things like that.
00:53:02 <Gir> kpreid: Did I really say that?
00:53:07 <kpreid> Gir: Yes. Yes, you did.
00:53:08 <Gir> kpreid: Oh well I say a lot of silly things somethimes. I did not.
00:53:21 <perigrin> Gir: you seem a little scatterbrained, I think your AIML set needs some help.
00:53:22 <Gir> perigrin: Thanks and you are a delightful person too. I don't know whether or not I am scatterbrained you think my AIML set needs some help.
00:53:22 <kpreid> Gir: Keep your story straight in one paragraph, at least!
00:53:23 <Gir> kpreid: Chat amongst yourselves.
00:53:33 <kpreid> kpreid: Okay.
00:54:56 <perigrin> Gir I really need to teach you to be more chatty ... like Monty over there
00:54:57 <Gir> perigrin: You really do? If you want to teach me something say it in one sentence. Then say "Remember that.". Interesting comparison.
00:54:58 <Monty> I reckon rust + feudalism = Mao Zedong.
00:55:40 <perigrin> Gir: Minnesota is your home. Remember that.
00:55:41 <Gir> perigrin: That is your opinion. Don't worry I will remember it.
00:55:50 <perigrin> Gir where is your home?
00:55:51 <Gir> perigrin: My home is in California.
00:56:00 <perigrin> Gir! You're driving me crazy!
00:56:01 <Gir> perigrin: Thanks for telling me that I am driving you crazy.
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01:33:53 <KragenSitaker> i just bought a jansport internal frame backpack in st paul
01:34:06 <KragenSitaker> just south of the university
01:35:56 <perigrin> Ahh mac-groveland area :)
01:38:02 <perigrin> I'm east of that by about 20 minutes
01:38:09 <perigrin> via University
01:39:56 <KragenSitaker> cool
01:39:59 <KragenSitaker> so what are you interested in?
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02:15:41 <perigrin> Sorry had to go to hardware store to buy tape for around the window AC units.
02:15:50 <perigrin> (old houses)-- # no ac
02:16:05 <perigrin> (old houses)++ # lots of character
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02:59:14 <KragenSitaker> .wik vampire watermelons
02:59:17 <phenny> "Vampire pumpkins and watermelons are a folk legend from the Balkans, in southeastern Europe." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vampire_watermelons
02:59:57 <KragenSitaker> yeah, old houses are cool. and you have a basement, right? I bet it's cool. Is it moldy?
03:00:06 <perigrin> it's not, it's partly finished
03:00:11 <perigrin> my server lives down there :)
03:00:16 <perigrin> And our only shower.
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03:00:29 <KragenSitaker> hi est!
03:00:30 <KragenSitaker> how are you doing?
03:01:05 <beoba> http://youtube.com/watch?v=I-UJXCw6vyk
03:04:20 <perigrin> .wik orangeman's day
03:04:23 <phenny> Can't find anything in Wikipedia for "orangeman's day".
03:04:30 <perigrin> thanks phenny
03:04:32 <phenny> Not at all.
03:05:18 <perigrin> ahh
03:05:22 <perigrin> .wik orangemen's day
03:05:26 <phenny> Can't find anything in Wikipedia for "orangemen's day".
03:05:29 <perigrin> bah
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03:20:35 <Monty> hey redmonk
03:20:49 <cori[s]|afk> .wik orangemen
03:20:52 <phenny> "Historically, to supporters of King William III of Orange." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orangemen
03:21:22 <perigrin> google finally worked for me.
03:23:04 <redmonk> is it true that it was a scots/protestant thing?
03:23:29 <redmonk> ah yes
03:24:05 <redmonk> when i was in elementary school i wore orange on st patricks day to weird people out
03:24:22 <redmonk> my family has a strong scottish background
03:27:09 <perigrin> just wear Rangers colours
03:35:07 <redmonk> heh
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04:12:24 <Monty> howdy, est
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04:53:30 <Monty> bah, it's dmiles_afk again
05:23:06 <KragenSitaker> .ety fustilarian
05:23:10 <phenny> Can't find the etymology for "fustilarian". Try http://etymonline.com/?search=fustilarian
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06:28:36 <anescient> smells nerdy
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07:41:28 <bunnywabbit_> sbp?
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10:16:25 <Monty> lo E5[P8G6FY
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10:17:56 * Arnia prods Monty
10:17:56 <Monty> secundo tempo supplementario
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10:18:55 <nsh> Monty, sounds wizardy
10:18:58 <Monty> if (VNC == YaST) { hairbrushes touches orgasmic stratosphere;}
10:20:53 <Arnia> Ah, I love Monty
10:20:57 <Monty> lemme put something about 20 now :) I've got starting to Swhack
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11:02:26 *** sbp changed the topic to: "<Monty> I've got starting to Swhack"
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11:52:18 <sbp> Reuters vs. Wikipedia: http://www.jasonunger.com/2006/07/10/the-irony-reuters-slams-wikipedias-credibility-issues-own-correction/
11:54:24 <Arnia> Hah
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11:59:30 <Arnia> sbp: people like casting new things in terms of old things
11:59:51 <Arnia> (embodiment, experience-based semantics etc)
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12:12:13 <JibberJim> sbp was it you who bought http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/5175044.stm ?
12:12:17 <sbp> Arnia: like this?
12:12:18 <sbp> [[[
12:12:19 <sbp> At the launch of a new campaign last week to promote the study of history, Stephen Fry made a passionate appeal that we use the gripping narratives of the past to make sense of the world today.
12:12:24 <sbp> ]]] - http://observer.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,,1815961,00.html
12:12:28 <Arnia> Indeed
12:12:33 <sbp> JibberJim: sadly not...
12:12:42 <Arnia> I've wanted for a long time to do a similar thing for maths
12:14:05 <sbp> [[[
12:14:06 <sbp> THE HAPPIEST PLACES
12:14:06 <sbp> 1. Vanuatu
12:14:06 <sbp> 2. Colombia
12:14:06 <sbp> 3. Costa Rica
12:14:08 <sbp> 4. Dominica
12:14:10 <sbp> 5. Panama
12:14:12 <sbp> ]]] - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/5172254.stm
12:14:21 <jessica> . . .
12:14:37 <sbp> from a study by the New Economics Foundation
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12:14:47 <jessica> So, a place no one can pronounce and has never heard of, and four countries known for brutal dictatorships, military juntas, and international drug trafficking.
12:14:50 <sbp> I'd like to know what, er, methods they used
12:15:11 <sbp> I think the police might be interested too
12:17:42 <sbp> http://living.scotsman.com/music.cfm?id=1018352006 <- Robert Plant review that gets the name of a Zeppelin song wrong. way to review there, Mr. Cornwell
12:18:59 <JibberJim> jessica the test was flawed in that that divided by "enviromental footprint" - so if you were a subsistence economy unable to travel anywhere, you'd do great!
12:19:33 <jessica> I wonder why Tanzania didn't do better.
12:20:07 <JibberJim> it was something like (GNP+SomeQuestionSurveyNumber)/(EnviromentalFootprint) or something silly like that
12:20:18 <sbp> .gc maladministrations
12:20:21 <phenny> maladministrations: 1,390
12:21:03 <Arnia> .gc malaprop
12:21:05 <phenny> malaprop: 261,000
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12:28:17 <darobin> .gc malaclypse
12:28:20 <phenny> malaclypse: 78,000
12:28:40 <Arnia> The Elder or Younger?
12:30:11 <darobin> I would tend to go for the Younger, but it's all up to you :)
12:32:09 <Arnia> Do what thou wilt, shall be the whole of the wascally wabbit
12:38:16 <darobin> :)
12:41:11 <Arnia> 23 skidoo
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12:45:57 <Monty> Thank goodness, eikeon is back!
12:45:59 <phenny> Be quiet, Monty.
12:46:04 <Monty> Then half of looking ahead a browser numbers through them up losing people here is power
12:48:02 * darobin should have suspected that Monty would pick up on Erisian references
12:48:02 <Monty> awesome story on that, slightly odd, so far haven;t any of goal seemed to fasten, fix, fixate, fixity, fixture; affix, antefix, crucify, infibulate, infix, microfiche, prefix, suffix, transfix.
12:48:42 <Arnia> Monty likes fixing things
12:48:42 <Monty> Tell me more about that.
12:48:55 <Arnia> Monty: it is your interest, you should tell us
12:48:58 <Monty> give me and it treats references, even stored -- hooked up nicely
12:50:37 <kpreid> > fix show
12:50:41 <swhask> "\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\...
12:53:18 <Morbus> what's the name of the filesystem "rules" that say "you should put stuff in /usr/local/bin and /usr/local/sbin", and is that still i use?
12:53:23 <Morbus> fsb?
12:54:16 <Arnia> Yes
12:54:24 <Arnia> Although Gobolinux eschews them
12:54:36 <Morbus> so it's still in use?
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12:55:13 * Morbus can't find a good reference online.
12:55:37 <kpreid> Morbus: FHS?
12:55:51 <Morbus> ah, yes, that's far more helpful.
12:55:52 <Morbus> thanks
12:56:00 <Morbus> is that still in popular/expeced usage?
12:56:17 * kpreid doesn't know
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13:00:19 <sbp> I see the FHS referenced from time to time
13:00:29 <sbp> but I'm not sure how popular it is to follow it, what distros do
13:00:41 <sbp> OS X and Gobolinux, of course, certainly don't
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13:00:53 <sbp> others seem to follow it, but probably out of convention
13:00:55 <sbp> FINE
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13:01:09 * Arnia hands sbp a seagull to wear
13:04:29 * Morbus tries to figure out the intricacies of unison.
13:05:02 <Arnia> The union?
13:05:02 <Morbus> how does it know if a file has been deleted from one respository, and not "added" to another?
13:06:09 <sbp> you mean like if /first/path/to/file.txt used to exist but doesn't now, and /second/path/to/file.txt doesn't exist?
13:06:36 <sbp> er, first:/path... and second:/path... would be clearer
13:07:24 <sbp> I never got used to unison, because I was always worried about moving files wrongly
13:07:34 <Morbus> well, if first:file.txt and second:file.txt exists, and then I delete second:file.txt. How does it know that I deleted it, and it should be deleted on first: compared with it thinking I "added" file.txt to first and it needs to sync to second?
13:07:47 <sbp> because I wouldn't let it move newer files over older ones automatically, and doing it manually is very intensive
13:07:52 <Morbus> yeah, i am too. but i've got a clustering setup that i need to sync.
13:07:57 <sbp> oh, I see
13:08:20 * Morbus is reading through the unison faq in hopes of finding out.
13:08:26 <Morbus> "Unison is capable of recognizing updates in both replicas and deciding which way they should be propagated."
13:08:35 <sbp> huh. but it doesn't say how?
13:08:42 <sbp> I can't work out how it'd do it unless it saves an index
13:09:30 <sbp> it only needs to save the previous listing of the filesystem, not all listings ever, so I guess even with really huge assed filesystems it wouldn't take up much space
13:09:38 * sbp should do ls -al / | wc
13:09:54 <Morbus> sbp: i think it does save an index.
13:09:56 * sbp does it, with ~/
13:10:01 <sbp> ah, cool
13:10:01 <Morbus> cos i got a bunch of gook in ~/.unison now.
13:10:14 <sbp> makes sense then
13:10:40 <sbp> whoopa, forgot -R
13:11:36 <Morbus> i just don't get how this works.
13:11:43 <Morbus> i need to set up a cascading backup system.
13:12:02 <Morbus> one server is the star/center, and the servers around it sync daily, weekly, and monthly.
13:12:17 <Morbus> so that a bad file doesn't destroy every backup before i can fix it.
13:12:28 <Morbus> but then i have three machines that are clustered.
13:13:00 <Morbus> i suppose the star server would be the primary and would push updates to all the other servers
13:13:05 <sbp> clustered?
13:13:12 <sbp> man, and I thought my syncing problems were bad
13:13:14 <Morbus> load balancing crap.
13:13:27 <Morbus> i didn't set it up. i barely know antyhing about it.
13:13:32 <sbp> aha
13:13:41 <Morbus> besides the fact that i'm sick of looking at tar files in random directories as pathetic attmepts at backing up.
13:13:48 <Morbus> ;)
13:13:52 <sbp> heh, heh
13:13:53 <Morbus> analmorbus to the rescue.
13:13:58 <sbp> I think you could run it all from the star server
13:14:08 <Morbus> yeah, because i worry about the syncing.
13:14:17 <Morbus> i don't want, for example, my monthly backup to be synced with the primary server.
13:14:19 <Morbus> that'd be devasting.
13:14:21 <Morbus> *at
13:14:28 <sbp> yeah
13:14:48 <Morbus> but if the primary is always the primary host, and it pushes to all the backups, theoretically, you'd think it'd work.
13:15:11 <sbp> yeah, unless the backup script fails. but that's true no matter where the backup scripts are held
13:15:16 <Morbus> because the backups wouldn't change on the backup machines.
13:15:25 <Morbus> so they shouldn't be able to sync backwards to the primary.
13:15:31 <sbp> and this way, couldn't you actually rsync it not unison it?
13:15:44 <sbp> because of what you just said? :-)
13:15:55 <Morbus> yeah, i could, but, analmorbus doesn't like using two utilities for the same purpose.
13:16:20 <sbp> I don't follow
13:16:31 <Morbus> well, i have to use unison for the clustering.
13:16:40 <Morbus> because it can make both locations look the same in one sweep.
13:16:55 <Morbus> and, to rule out my corruption problem above, i could use rsync, sure.
13:17:02 <sbp> so wait... where is the actual master of all the files?
13:17:14 <sbp> I presume this is disobey.com we're talking about, so they're stored on one of your local computers?
13:17:17 <Morbus> we have six servers. each server does a different thing.
13:17:21 <Morbus> no, not disobey.
13:17:23 <sbp> ah
13:17:33 <sbp> so where are the masters stored?
13:17:47 <Morbus> there is no master backup.
13:18:02 <Morbus> the plan is to make a /backups on a primary server which aggregates data from all the six servers.
13:18:08 <Morbus> then push that tree to each six server.
13:18:13 <Morbus> so that each server has a backup of every other server
13:18:20 <sbp> so people just edit stuff on the clustered star server? but when they edit stuff, they don't know which of the three clustered machines they're editing on?
13:18:26 <Morbus> correct.
13:18:38 <Morbus> there is no star server at the moment.
13:18:41 <Morbus> there is just two clustered machines.
13:18:44 <Morbus> and then four others.
13:19:30 <sbp> I guess you could use unison with flags such that it's set up like rsync, to transfer from the cluster to the backup machines
13:19:40 <sbp> to satisfy analmorbus's needs
13:19:48 <Morbus> yeah, figure that out for me while i finish the faq.
13:19:49 <Morbus> <g>
13:19:56 <sbp> heheh. I'll take a look
13:20:57 <sbp> "using unison like rsync between linux and windows"
13:21:01 <sbp> http://lists.seas.upenn.edu/pipermail/unison-hackers/2005-August/000237.html
13:21:10 <sbp> [[[
13:21:10 <sbp> Try -force. From the manual:
13:21:10 <sbp> force xxx
13:21:11 <sbp> Including the preference -force root causes Unison to resolve all
13:21:11 <sbp> differences (even non-conflicting changes) in favor of root. This
13:21:11 <sbp> effectively changes Unison from a synchronizer into a mirroring
13:21:12 <sbp> utility.
13:21:14 <sbp> ]]]
13:21:22 <Morbus> interesting.
13:21:44 <Morbus> so unison /backups ssh://server//backups -force should be the rsync equiv.
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13:22:52 <sbp> I think it's more like: unison -force /backups /backups ssh://server//backups
13:23:00 <sbp> but it's not all that clear from the manual
13:23:03 <aspect> hm wait. You use unison to synchronise clustered machines, such that a change made on either will propagate to the other?
13:23:05 <Morbus> eh?
13:23:13 <Morbus> aspect: correct.
13:23:18 <Morbus> but then i also need to use it like rsync.
13:23:31 <aspect> damn
13:23:40 <Morbus> to mirror my /backups directory, generically, to five other servers, with no hopes of the star server being futz with.
13:23:43 <sbp> 'cause -force takes an argument, which is the master file tree
13:23:48 <aspect> I could use that
13:23:50 * aspect apt-get installs
13:24:01 <sbp> ah, 17MB of ls -Ral in ~/
13:24:44 <Morbus> sbp: i'm not sure it's "-force /backups"
13:24:49 <Morbus> i think the xxx is meant to be newer or older
13:24:52 <Morbus> per that URL.
13:25:09 <sbp> well, it says you can *also* specify...
13:25:12 <aspect> Morbus: beyond initial configuration, does it Just Work?
13:25:19 <sbp> the first instruction is "-force root"
13:25:21 <sbp> testing it now
13:25:34 <Morbus> aspect: i can't say. i've not used it heavily.
13:26:16 <sbp> $ unison -force first/path/ first/path/ second/path/
13:26:20 <sbp> [BGN] Copying LOLS
13:26:20 <sbp> from /home/sbp/tmp/first/path
13:26:20 <sbp> to /home/sbp/tmp/second/path
13:26:20 <sbp> [END] Copying LOLS
13:26:35 <sbp> and man, I remember why I hate unison. STOPO AKSOING ME STFUF!!
13:26:42 <Morbus> sbp: add -batch
13:26:44 <Morbus> that stops questions.
13:26:50 <Morbus> and i still don't "get" that command line.
13:26:54 <Morbus> why the dupe on first/path?
13:27:03 <sbp> it'll be parsed as:
13:27:14 <sbp> FLAGS: -force = first/path/
13:27:21 <sbp> ARGS first/path/, second/path/
13:27:31 <Morbus> so, you could do -force = first/path/whee
13:27:35 <Morbus> to force only that tree or some such?
13:27:40 <Morbus> and the rest would sync normally?
13:27:49 <sbp> hmm, I wonder. quite possibly
13:27:55 <sbp> if it's well designed :-)
13:27:58 <Morbus> :)
13:28:10 <sbp> argh
13:28:23 <sbp> so I deleted second/path/LOLS to test the transfer again but with -batch
13:28:25 <sbp> and it goes...
13:28:29 <sbp> The root of one of the replicas has been completely emptied.
13:28:29 <sbp> Unison may delete everything in the other replica.
13:28:29 <sbp> Aborting...
13:28:51 <Morbus> eh?
13:28:59 <Morbus> so, what, you can't delete directories?
13:29:41 <sbp> well, apparently and hopefully this is just some stupid safeguard that says if *all* of the files in the entire target filetree have gone, panic and quit
13:30:22 <sbp> but that's stupid because if the target filetree is empty, who fricking cares?
13:30:38 <sbp> if you're going to *delete* a bunch of files, then fair enough, panic and quit
13:30:49 <sbp> but it's not even deleting files, I'm just asking it to transfer to an empty directory
13:31:01 * sbp takes -batch out and sees what questions it asks...
13:31:50 <lisppaste2> sbp pasted "Unison Test Output" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/22525
13:32:12 <sbp> it works when in non-batch mode
13:32:22 <sbp> so it's not an rsync-alike exactly...
13:32:26 <sbp> even with -batch
13:32:33 <sbp> it does entirely stupid and unexpected things
13:32:37 * Morbus scratches head.
13:32:45 <Morbus> maybe you need the force to do it without the y.
13:32:55 <Morbus> well, no, that wouldn't work.
13:33:06 <sbp> nope, I used -force and -batch
13:33:17 <sbp> needs a -jfdi too
13:33:34 <Morbus> jfdi?
13:33:38 <sbp> just fucking do it
13:33:39 <Morbus> ah.
13:33:40 <Morbus> hehh
13:33:55 <sbp> this'd only be a problem, of course, if you wiped one of your backups and wanted to replenish it
13:34:16 <sbp> but I can see occasions on which you'd want to: e.g. if there was some corrupt bit of filesystem in there
13:34:33 <Morbus> yeah, i suppose.
13:34:43 <Morbus> but if you're syncing a single file...
13:34:48 <sbp> and if it pulls this kind of crap here, who knows what other behaviours there are...
13:34:50 <Morbus> and delete that file from a host, it'd presume to do the same, no?
13:35:11 <Morbus> since that sngle file is "everything" in the root.
13:35:51 * sbp tries -auto, finds that doesn't do anything...
13:36:00 <sbp> Morbus: yeah
13:36:18 <sbp> so if you were just syncing a huge assed tarball or something...
13:36:37 <sbp> I mean, how fucking stupid is that really?
13:36:47 <sbp> "OMG LOLS I CAN'T COPY IT HERE! THIS IS AN EMPTY DIRECTORY!"
13:36:58 <sbp> imagine if mv or cp did that
13:37:09 <sbp> "Error: can't copy to destination directory, directory is empty"
13:37:14 <sbp> or touch
13:37:15 <Morbus> heheh
13:37:21 <aspect> with -batch conflicts are skipped, according to tfm
13:37:37 <Morbus> yeah, but that's useless in a cron situation.
13:37:44 <sbp> hmm...
13:37:44 <sbp> -addprefsto
13:37:44 <sbp> specify a file to add new preferences to in interactive mode
13:37:44 <Morbus> you need -batch to stop it from awaiting user input.
13:37:53 <sbp> it looks like you can make a preferences file
13:37:58 <Morbus> yeah, you cabn.
13:38:02 <Morbus> but it's just a map of the command line args.
13:38:09 <sbp> hmm!
13:38:09 <Morbus> if there's nothing there that works, a pref file isn't helping either
13:38:29 <aspect> prefs look like they just store command line flags
13:39:02 <sbp> $ unison -addprefsto uniconf -force first/path/ first/path/ second/path/
13:39:03 <sbp> [...]
13:39:08 <sbp> $ cat uniconf
13:39:08 <sbp> cat: uniconf: No such file or directory
13:39:23 <sbp> perhaps it already has to exist?
13:39:50 <aspect> what does it do about file ownership? the manual talks about permission bits but makes no mention of this
13:39:58 <sbp> hmm, nope
13:40:26 <aspect> sbp: has it made it in .unison/ ?
13:41:17 <sbp> I think what it's complaining about is not that the destination root is completely empty, but that it's losing the old *metadata* that used to belong to that tree... but it still strikes me as a bit silly, especially if you can't override it from the command line
13:41:19 <sbp> aspect:
13:41:20 <sbp> $ cat default.prf
13:41:20 <sbp> # Unison preferences file
13:41:25 <sbp> [EOF]
13:41:32 <sbp> that's the only thing I can find that looks configgy in there
13:41:33 <aspect> oh
13:41:56 <aspect> .oO( this looks like a dangerous tool )
13:42:08 <aspect> ... and not particularly suited as an rsync substitute
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13:42:18 <Morbus> well, it's a syncer, not a mirrorer.
13:42:26 <Morbus> how are you using rsync to sync your clusters now?
13:42:53 <aspect> a master rsyncs out to all cluster members
13:43:03 <aspect> the master's not itself a member of the cluster
13:44:00 <aspect> but in the heat of the moment it's not uncommon for a sysadmin to go about manually changing files in the cluster
13:44:10 <aspect> which spooks me
13:44:22 <Morbus> gotcha.
13:44:27 <Morbus> we don't have a master in the cluster.
13:44:37 <Morbus> so rsync wouldn't work the same way for me.
13:45:02 <aspect> but there must be a host out there which can be responsible for updating the whole cluster
13:45:29 <aspect> in our environment this is the same host that's responsible for monitoring etc
13:45:56 <Morbus> well, sure, we can have one single host who can do all the updating.
13:46:01 <aspect> anything it rsync's out is pulled from cvs
13:46:07 <sbp> but the changes might still be elsewhere
13:46:10 <Morbus> but we still need a syncage of all the machines in the cluster so it nows what is the complete/proper build.
13:46:27 <sbp> There Is No Master
13:46:28 <Morbus> since uploading a file via the website would only appear on one machine, and not any others.
13:46:54 <aspect> so in theory, cvs is the master. Mainly because it contains history and is supposed to be subject to some review and quality control
13:47:01 <aspect> oh
13:47:19 <aspect> for that sort of thing we have a shared filesystem
13:47:46 <sbp> unison is a kind of ghetto way of having a slow shared filesystem
13:47:59 <sbp> think of it like a shared filesystem with lots of slow crappy local caches
13:48:09 <aspect> which, unless you use clustered GFS or something is a single point of failure ..
13:48:46 <aspect> interesting idea. unison might be a better solution to the current dodgy nfs hack without going to the extent of a GFS cluster
13:49:12 <sbp> yeah, it seems like you trade sanity and immediacy for some robustness and redundancy
13:49:35 <Morbus> yeah.
13:49:41 <Morbus> i think i'm going ahead with setting it up today.
13:49:46 <Morbus> i'll report back after a month or so ;)
13:49:48 <aspect> although given the quality of the code which uses this shared filesystem .....
13:49:51 <sbp> heheh
13:50:03 <Morbus> i think i'm gonna use all command line too.
13:50:06 <Morbus> with no preference files.
13:50:12 <Morbus> that makes it easier to backup the backup script itself.
13:50:40 <sbp> just remember not to delete the backups, ever! :-)
13:50:57 <Morbus> well, with hopefully 6 copies <g>
13:51:04 <sbp> or even move them in order to duplicate them
13:51:07 <sbp> heh, yeah, I hear ya
13:51:20 <Morbus> though, yeah, one misstep in that script could delete the backup script.
13:51:29 <Morbus> i'll make a copy of it in ~ ;)
13:51:37 * aspect thinks: use unison for unison, use rsync for mirroring :)
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13:51:48 <sbp> advertise a copy of the script in the NYT
13:51:59 <Morbus> yeah, but i dislike doing two utils for essentially the same thing.
13:52:00 <aspect> haha
13:53:29 <aspect> but it's not really the same thing .. unison tries to do something inherently much more difficult than what rsync does
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13:53:56 <Morbus> but, with -force, it can operate just like rsync.
13:54:09 <sbp> (almost)
13:54:12 <aspect> (more dangerous, too .. rsync has earned the trust I put in it; parts of the unison manual scare me[C
13:54:49 <aspect> in theory :)
13:55:42 <aspect> I'm pretty conservative though; especially when failure means backups are lost
13:57:02 <sbp> I get the feeling that unison was designed organically#
13:57:07 <sbp> s/#//
13:57:22 <sbp> that features were bolted on here and there, that the needs only became apparent after some use...
13:57:30 <sbp> rather than having been designed sleekly and properly in the first place
13:57:37 <sbp> sort of like how cvs grew, compared to svn
13:57:58 <sbp> so unison2 might be more usable... :-)
13:58:48 <sbp> it should be called nosimo
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14:15:07 <bjoern_> how come, Monty?
14:15:09 <Monty> I reckon injuries + bedroom = Barry White :P
14:16:15 <bjoern_> So you know It's Ecstasy When You Lay Down Next To Me, Monty?
14:16:18 <Monty> JSBach's munchies puts his hands on frail exceptions?
14:17:18 <bjoern_> Monty, I assure you, of late JSBach doesn't. I can't speak for his munchies, though.
14:17:18 <Monty> progress++
14:17:29 <bjoern_> Monty, yes, a little bit...
14:17:29 <Monty> I see.
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15:02:59 <Mr_tson> !list
15:02:59 <swhask> list [module|command]. Where modules is one of:
15:02:59 <swhask> babel base compose dice dict djinn drhylo elite eval fact fresh haddock help hoogle instances karma lambda localtime more pl poll pretty quote search seen slap spell state system tell todo topic
15:02:59 <swhask> type unlambda url version vixen where
15:03:14 <Mr_tson> list
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16:13:55 <Morbus> what's wrong with
16:13:56 <Morbus> if [ `hostname` != 'williams' ]; then
16:13:57 <Morbus> ?
16:14:54 <Morbus> nevermind
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16:21:23 <aeonite> bleh
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16:25:15 <JibberJim> bjoern_!
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16:39:48 <Arnia> This looks like a good giggle: http://www.dur.ac.uk/durham.agents007/
16:45:01 <Morbus> hrm. does -e in awk execute the command?
16:45:32 <Morbus> mysql drupal -e "SHOW TABLES" | awk '{print "DROP TABLE "$1";"}'
16:45:37 <Morbus> i want to execute that, not print it.
16:45:58 <Morbus> (and mysql here is just an example. i need a generic approach)
16:46:06 <jsled> you need something like expect, then.
16:46:15 <Morbus> i thought there was a -e sorta thing
16:46:25 <Morbus> oh.
16:46:26 <Morbus> find / -name ".DS_Store" -depth -exec rm {} \;
16:46:28 <Morbus> i think i'm thinking of find.
16:46:28 <jsled> awk doesn't have access to stdin of mysql.
16:46:37 <Morbus> i don't care about the stdin of mysql.
16:46:39 <jsled> Oh, well, you could execute a new `mysql`, sure.
16:46:51 <Morbus> that's just one example.
16:47:04 <Morbus> i need to dump and gz all databases, for example, in separate files.
16:48:19 <Morbus> hrm. could i just pipe to sh?
16:48:40 <jsled> hmm. mysql [...] | awk [...] | while read stmt; do echo $stmt | mysql [...]; done
16:49:00 <Morbus> again, that's too inflexible.
16:49:08 <jsled> huh?
16:49:12 <Morbus> forget it.
16:49:19 <jsled> how is it inflexible?
16:51:52 <Morbus> mysql -e 'show databases' | awk '{print "mysqldump "$1" | gzip -9 > "$1".gz;"}' | tail +2 | sh
16:51:59 <Morbus> that appears to be a flexible enough approach
16:53:45 <jsled> I don't know. The `[...] | while read var[...]` is easier to write, linebreak, and robusticize.
16:53:59 <Morbus> but depends on the shell, no?
16:54:00 <crschmidt> robusticize?
16:54:06 <jsled> yeah.
16:54:07 <jsled> add robustness to.
16:54:16 <jsled> like. jazzercize. or aerobicize.
16:54:26 <jsled> ETOOMANY.
16:57:53 <Morbus> bah, i wish i knew more about bash.
16:58:02 <Morbus> i'd rather see that as a bash loop in a shell script.
16:59:39 <jsled> Well, {for table in `mysql drupal -e "SHOW TABLES" | awk '{ print $1 }'`; do mysqldump ${table} | gzip [...]; done} should work.
17:00:00 <Morbus> ok. the thing i'm fighting is a line more than 80 chars
17:00:37 <Morbus> so, at the moment, i have
17:00:38 <Morbus> for i in $( mysql -e 'SHOW databases' | tail +2 ); do
17:00:39 <Morbus> done
17:00:53 <Morbus> here i don't think i need to do awk.
17:00:59 <Morbus> cos mysql pipes without formating.
17:01:41 <Morbus> for database in $( mysql -e 'SHOW databases' | tail +2 ); do
17:01:41 <Morbus> mysqldump ${database} | gzip -9 > ${database}.gz
17:01:41 <Morbus> done
17:01:46 <Morbus> so, that should be workable, right?
17:02:27 <jsled> yeah, that looks about right. I don't know if $() works like ``, but if the table names have spaces, you might need to set $IFS to '\n'.
17:02:36 <Morbus> database names can't have spaces, no.
17:02:46 <Morbus> and the $( ) I pulled from http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Bash-Prog-Intro-HOWTO-7.html
17:02:54 <Morbus> for i in $( ls ); do
17:02:55 <Morbus> echo item: $i
17:02:55 <Morbus> done
17:03:04 <Morbus> here it'd seemed to suggest I can do $database, not ${database}
17:03:28 <Morbus> but, i'd proobably have to use ${database}.gz still
17:03:29 <jsled> same. ${} is just formal.
17:03:32 <Morbus> lestit got confused about .gz?
17:03:51 <jsled> I don't know if '.' is allowable for variable names.
17:04:01 * Morbus tries as is without futzing.
17:05:02 <Morbus> so, how horrible is cd /trellon/backups/38.99.21.2/mysql/ && rm -f *
17:05:03 <Morbus> ?
17:05:14 <Morbus> && is predicated on a valid response from the cd, right?
17:05:55 <jsled> yes.
17:06:23 <Morbus> so, then, yeah, that should be fine.
17:06:31 * Morbus makes it *.gz just in case.
17:09:37 <Morbus> lol.
17:09:38 <Morbus> the hell...
17:09:38 <Morbus> mysqldump: Got error: 1017: Can't find file: 'fuck.MYI' (errno: 2) when using LOCK TABLES
17:09:39 <Morbus> mysqldump: Got error: 1017: Can't find file: 'access.MYI' (errno: 2) when using LOCK TABLES
17:09:48 <jsled> heh.
17:09:49 <Morbus> that's uh, new.
17:19:45 <bancus> Okay.
17:19:49 <bancus> maybe I'm missing something here
17:20:09 <bancus> This site is set up so that the index.html page loads all the subpages with javascript, and uses JS also to navigate to them.
17:20:20 <bancus> This is done "for security reasons, so people can't see the pages".
17:20:24 <bancus> The pages accept no input.
17:20:48 <bancus> How the fuck does obscuring static pages improve security?
17:21:08 <bunnywabbit_> haha
17:21:10 <Morbus> lol
17:21:30 <Morbus> sounds like financial justifications ;)
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17:23:34 <bancus> If it weren't a page for a NPO where the webmaster is unpaid, I'd suggest something about *job* security.
17:23:37 <bancus> But the position is unpaid.
17:23:43 <Morbus> ow.
17:23:48 <bancus> It's bad. :(
17:23:54 <bancus> Help me, the code will make me cry.
17:23:56 <Morbus> is that guy stiull around?
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17:23:59 <Morbus> so you can yell at him?
17:24:00 <bancus> And they don't want me to fix it.
17:24:07 <bancus> Yeah, but I don't see him often.
17:24:14 <Morbus> lol. what was the reason?
17:24:23 <bancus> Paragraphs are just lines separated by <br>
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17:24:35 <bancus> Tab indent is done with six in a row.
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17:25:05 <bancus> [[[
17:25:08 <bancus> As far as the scary code... it's not that bad just ASP
17:25:08 <bancus> but not really ASP. It's good for security because
17:25:08 <bancus> nobody can see the pages but frankly we don't need
17:25:08 <bancus> that much security on something like this. As the
17:25:10 <bancus> website grows, which I'd like it to, we will probably
17:25:13 <bancus> get to a point where we don't want the ASP functions
17:25:15 <bancus> or will only use them in part but split into separate
17:25:18 <bancus> pages instead of loading it all into one.
17:25:20 <bancus> ]]]
17:25:25 <Morbus> my god, they've been convinced.
17:25:36 <bancus> The only use of ASP is including files.
17:25:42 <bancus> Copyright notice at the bottom.
17:26:11 <bancus> Me: [[[
17:26:11 <bancus> I honestly still don't understand why this all was done. And the code
17:26:12 <bancus> is scary in other ways too. Like the strings of at the start of
17:26:12 <bancus> each paragraph (which, for some reason, are not in paragraph tags).
17:26:12 <bancus> Someone clearly hasn't heard of text-indent. :P
17:26:15 <bancus> ]]]
17:26:19 <bancus> His reply: [[[
17:26:26 <bancus> No, somebody doesn't trust text indent. It's a
17:26:26 <bancus> holdover that I got used to. I didn't like text
17:26:27 <bancus> indent calls.
17:26:28 <bancus> ]]]
17:26:33 <bancus> Help. :(
17:26:34 <Morbus> lol
17:27:36 <bancus> My further reply: [[[
17:27:37 <bancus> Argh. Don't be afraid of good code. It's not afraid of you. :(
17:27:37 <bancus> I use text-indent on umbraangeli.org. It works fine in every browser I've tried.
17:27:39 <bancus> ]]]
17:28:42 <bancus> And his most recent reply, just now: [[[
17:28:43 <bancus> I'm not arguing with you. And remember it was written
17:28:43 <bancus> by a coder who works for a company that loses millions
17:28:43 <bancus> of dollers when security goes south on them. There's
17:28:43 <bancus> a natural paranoia build into every page.
17:28:45 <bancus> He concedes the limitations and isn't going to be
17:28:48 <bancus> insulted when we move away from that particular
17:28:50 <bancus> solution into something a little less unweildy.
17:28:53 <bancus> My code is still W3C compliant. :-P
17:28:55 <bancus> ]]]
17:28:59 <bancus> This is the guy I'm receiving it from, BTW, it was written by the guy before him.
17:29:27 <Morbus> saying that is w3c compliant is saying like "1 2 B MY FR31ND?!" is English
17:29:38 *** wrtpeeps_ (n=wrtpeeps@v2.zerged.com) has joined #swhack
17:29:38 <Monty> howdy, wrtpeeps_
17:29:59 <bancus> I so badly want to reply "If this is his idea of security, and the company really will lose millions of dollars, sell your stock. Now."
17:30:09 <bancus> The javascript that obscures this shit IS IN THE FUCKING PAGE.
17:30:10 <Morbus> you should.
17:30:22 <Morbus> but then again, you could be considered hacking.
17:30:25 <Morbus> and you'd get sued.
17:30:37 <bancus> I'd get sued for what?
17:30:41 <bancus> I'm the new webmaster.
17:30:41 <Morbus> for hacking the site.
17:30:47 <Morbus> this is obviously secure code.
17:30:51 <bancus> Hahahah.
17:30:52 <Morbus> for you to circumvent must mean you're hacking.
17:31:08 <Morbus> and to, fuck, tell /other/ people about the exploit?!
17:31:10 <Morbus> zomg.
17:31:16 <Morbus> twentah year jailah time.
17:31:24 <jetscreamer> )_)
17:34:38 <bancus> [[[
17:34:39 <bancus> I'm not arguing with you. And remember it was written
17:34:39 <bancus> by a coder who works for a company that loses millions
17:34:39 <bancus> of dollers when security goes south on them. There's
17:34:39 <bancus> a natural paranoia build into every page.
17:34:42 <bancus> He concedes the limitations and isn't going to be
17:34:44 <bancus> insulted when we move away from that particular
17:34:47 <bancus> solution into something a little less unweildy.
17:34:49 <bancus> My code is still W3C compliant. :-P
17:34:52 <bancus> ]]]
17:34:54 <bancus> whoops, too much
17:34:57 <bancus> er, wrong bit
17:34:59 <bancus> dammit
17:35:04 <bancus> I forgot you have to explicitly copy in windows.
17:35:05 <bancus> [[[
17:35:06 <bancus> If this is this company's idea of security, and they really will lose millions of dollars, I'd strongly suggest that if you have any stock in the company, you sell it ASAP. I'm not even a hacker and I can get through the obscurity in nothing flat. Hell, it's obscured with JS. Anyone who feels like it can read the code.
17:35:11 <bancus> Okay, okay. *deep breaths*
17:35:14 <bancus> I'm done now. Really, I am.
17:35:16 <bancus> ]]]
17:35:34 <Morbus> you should make mention that this is a false sense of security.
17:35:53 <Morbus> and if security is ever breached, your company will lose tons of reputation for having implemented, and trusting in, such a lackluster clear-channel attempt at security like this.
17:43:03 <KragenSitaker> .ety shunt
17:43:12 <phenny> "c.1225, perhaps from shunen 'to shun' (see shun)." - http://etymonline.com/?term=shunt
17:45:05 <bjoern_> you could externalize the scripts and put them on http://honeypot.example.com/~honeypot/ ...
17:51:27 <jetscreamer> yes it is lackluster!
17:51:40 <jetscreamer> i like seeing my name
17:52:12 <jetscreamer> i...am...a...
17:52:14 <jetscreamer> luster
17:53:15 <jetscreamer> smith...baker... farmer...luster.
17:53:53 <jetscreamer> i must come from a long line of gigalos
17:54:19 <jetscreamer> better than manwhore as a name
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18:16:39 <GraveDigger> .calc 777 octal in decimal
18:16:42 <phenny> GraveDigger: Sorry, no result.
18:16:46 <GraveDigger> *hmpf*
18:18:07 <bjoern_> .calc 0o777 in decimal
18:18:09 <phenny> 0o777 = 511
18:21:10 <bjoern_> .calc 0o77777777 red
18:21:13 <phenny> bjoern_: Sorry, no result.
18:21:15 <bjoern_> .calc 0o77777777 white
18:21:18 <phenny> bjoern_: Sorry, no result.
18:21:25 <bjoern_> eek
18:21:30 <bjoern_> .gc 0o77777777 white
18:21:32 <phenny> 0o77777777 white: 0
18:21:35 <bjoern_> .gc 0o77777777 red
18:21:38 <phenny> 0o77777777 red: 0
18:21:40 <bjoern_> ...
18:24:32 <beoba> wha
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19:05:11 * darobin wonders if those red levels don't turn into yellow, or in fact ultraviolet
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19:14:06 <Morbus> ok, unison sucks ass.
19:14:25 *** gromgull has quit ()
19:15:24 <thelsdj> yes, yes it does
19:17:52 <thelsdj> i think my biggest complaint with it is how difficult it is to get it to not screw up file permissions
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19:29:10 <Morbus> thelsdj: what do you use?
19:47:04 <thelsdj> we use unison for syncing some text files between two w2k3 servers
19:47:36 <thelsdj> haven't found anything better for the purpose, but it still sucks heh
19:52:05 <Morbus> i can't get it to do /anything/ useful.
19:52:09 <Morbus> it won't copy new files.
19:52:19 <Morbus> it won't set the time or owner and group.
19:52:21 <Morbus> it does nothing useful.
19:52:55 <Morbus> the only way it does anythign is with -force newer
19:53:03 <Morbus> which the damn manual says zomg, you should really know what you're doing!
19:53:07 <Morbus> suggesting that it's use is "odd"
19:55:44 <Morbus> and the damn thing doesn't delete files at all.
19:55:57 <Morbus> i've got a dozen poplocks sitting on one server that expired long ao.
19:56:20 <thelsdj> you using -auto and -batch? might effect some of that stuff
19:56:55 <Morbus> lol. what's the damn use of a sync script if i have to run it manually every time?
19:57:22 <Morbus> and, no, removing it did the same thing.
19:57:24 <Morbus> files are still there.
19:59:34 *** grave^unterwegs is now known as GraveDigger
20:00:06 <thelsdj> we don't delete any files, but it does pick up new files for us
20:01:27 <Morbus> what an incredibly useless piece of software.
20:01:40 <jsled> is rsync not an option?
20:02:03 <Morbus> rsync is a mirrorer not a synchronizer.
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20:45:46 <KragenSitaker> .wik culture club
20:45:50 <phenny> Can't find anything in Wikipedia for "culture club".
20:46:04 <jsled> .wik boy george
20:46:08 <phenny> Can't find anything in Wikipedia for "boy george".
20:46:24 <KragenSitaker> .wik madonna
20:46:27 <phenny> "The Madonna, Roman Catholic title for Mary, mother of Jesus" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madonna
20:46:35 <KragenSitaker> no, that's wrong
20:46:39 <KragenSitaker> ;)
20:46:41 <KragenSitaker> .wik nina blackwood
20:46:45 <phenny> Can't find anything in Wikipedia for "nina blackwood".
20:46:55 <KragenSitaker> .wik mtv
20:46:58 <phenny> "MTV: Music Television is a young adult cable television network headquartered in New York City and London." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mtv
20:47:07 <KragenSitaker> .wik video killed the radio star
20:47:10 <phenny> "'Video Killed the Radio Star' is a 1980s New Wave song (released in 1979) by the British group The Buggles that celebrates the golden days of radio." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_killed_the_radio_star
20:47:34 <KragenSitaker> .wik wick
20:47:37 <phenny> "Candle wick, the cord used in a candle or oil lamp" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wick
20:47:37 <KragenSitaker> .wik solder wick
20:47:40 <phenny> Can't find anything in Wikipedia for "solder wick".
20:47:45 <KragenSitaker> .wik solder
20:47:48 <phenny> "A solder is a fusible metal alloy (often of tin and lead, although lead-based solders were outlawed in many parts of the world in the 1980s), with a melting point or melting range below 450 °C (840 °F) and is melted to join metallic surfaces, especially in the fields [...]" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solder
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21:06:33 <nsh-> .ety novice
21:06:38 <phenny> "1340, 'probationer in a religious order,' from O.Fr. novice, from M.L. novicius, noun use of L. novicius 'newly imported, inexperienced' (of slaves), from novus 'new' (see new)." - http://etymonline.com/?term=novice
21:06:46 <nsh-> .ety new
21:06:50 <phenny> "O.E. neowe, niowe, earlier niwe, from P.Gmc. *newjaz (cf. O.Fris. nie, Du. nieuw, Ger. neu, Dan., Swed. ny, Goth. niujis 'new'), from PIE *newos (cf. Skt. navah, Pers. nau, Hittite newash, Gk. neos, Lith. naujas, O.C.S. novu, Rus. novyi, L. novus, O.Ir. nue, Welsh [...]" - http://etymonline.com/?term=new
21:07:03 <nsh-> .ety supernova
21:07:05 <phenny> "1934, formed from super- + nova." - http://etymonline.com/?term=supernova
21:07:10 <nsh-> .ety nova
21:07:15 <phenny> "1877, from L. nova, fem. sing. adj. of novus 'new' (see new), used with stella 'star' (a fem. noun in L.) to describe a new star not previously known." - http://etymonline.com/?term=nova
21:07:19 <KragenSitaker> .wik supernova
21:07:22 <phenny> "A supernova is a stellar explosion that produces an extremely bright object made of plasma that declines to invisibility over weeks or months." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernova
21:07:34 <nsh-> Monty is a stellar explosion.
21:07:36 <Monty> I reckon Atari ST + tissues = silly frogs :(
21:07:43 <KragenSitaker> .wik Monty
21:07:46 <phenny> "Monty, a comic strip." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty
21:07:47 <Monty> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/07/13/zidane_headbutt_outrage/
21:07:48 <Monty> They say that you use five calculations!
21:08:09 <nsh-> Monty, all at the same time??
21:08:11 <Monty> testing it weren't free account is stuff?
21:08:35 <nsh-> apparantly it's "prosecutable" stuff :-/
21:08:41 <nsh-> , Monty
21:08:42 <Monty> find THAT example
21:09:08 <KragenSitaker> .wik Zidane
21:09:11 <phenny> "Zinedine Yazid Zidane, (often incorrectly spelled Zinédine, Arabic: زين الدين زيدان transliteration: Zīn ad-Dīn Zīdān), (born June 23, 1972), popularly nicknamed Zizou (pronounced [zi'zu]), is a former French football player of Kabyle Algerian [...]" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zidane
21:09:27 <KragenSitaker> .wik materazzi
21:09:30 <phenny> "Marco Materazzi (born August 19, 1973 in Lecce) is an Italian football defender, who currently plays for Serie A club Internazionale Milano F.C. better know as Inter Milan." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materazzi
21:10:02 <nsh-> .ety want
21:10:05 <phenny> "c.1200, 'to be lacking,' from O.N. vanta 'to lack, want,' earlier *wanaton, from P.Gmc. *wanen, from PIE *we-no-, from base *eue- 'to leave, abandon, give out' (see vain)." - http://etymonline.com/?term=want
21:17:44 *** JibberJim (n=jim@212.183.134.208) has joined #swhack
21:18:51 <JibberJim> swhack!
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21:41:58 <sbp> loels
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21:45:23 <JibberJim> loels
21:46:04 * JibberJim head someone say Sean Palmer today and I was like "who?" for ages, then I thought ah! sbp!
21:46:05 <JibberJim> er s/head/heard/
22:02:21 <sbp> heh!
22:02:32 <sbp> yeah, I get a bit freaked out when people call me Sean
22:02:41 <sbp> I'm like, "uh... sbp please?"
22:03:19 * perigrin feels funning introducing himself at conferences as "perigrin"
22:03:43 <sbp> it's not your real name?
22:03:57 <perigrin> no, just the nick I've used the longest.
22:04:08 <perigrin> and my CPAN id
22:04:14 <sbp> at least sbp is my name, through an acronym effects pedal
22:04:14 <perigrin> and a valid e-mail address
22:04:59 <perigrin> well I don't even go by my first name elsewhere ... so even my name confuses people.
22:05:25 <sbp> Morbus has it worst of all of us, of course
22:05:46 <sbp> http://www.disobey.com/node/1554
22:09:33 <perigrin> fair enough
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22:41:03 <redmonk> yo
22:41:45 <sbp> yo
22:41:47 <sbp> eat it
22:44:09 <sbp> huh: "Machines which did not use parity typically set the eighth bit to zero, though some systems such as Prime machines running PRIMOS set the eighth bit of ASCII characters to one." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASCII
22:44:16 <sbp> redmonk: have you eaten it yet?
22:44:57 * redmonk chews.
22:45:11 <sbp> thanks
22:45:19 <ows> sbp: hi
22:45:26 <sbp> how's it going? how's the new gig going?
22:45:28 <sbp> hey ows
22:45:47 <redmonk> new gig starts the 26th
22:45:47 <ows> hi all
22:45:49 <ows> does </wiki/*> match </wiki/index.html>
22:46:00 <ows> (emacs regexp)
22:46:59 <jsled> no. </wiki/.*> should, though.
22:48:43 <redmonk> Morbus: ping
22:49:21 <ows> jsled: yes, it worked
22:49:26 <ows> why the point before *?
22:49:52 <redmonk> the period (.) matches any character
22:49:56 <jsled> ows: in regexp, '.' matches any character. '*' modifies that as "0 or more of"
22:50:02 <redmonk> what he said
22:50:23 <jsled> As before, you were expressing "'/wiki' followed by 0 or more '/'s".
22:50:24 <ows> * alone means what?
22:50:32 <ows> ah ok
22:50:32 <redmonk> it's a modifier
22:50:47 <sbp> ows: there are two kinds of regular expression. there's one where * matches just any character, usually called glob or wildcard syntax which you seem to be most familiar with, and another more powerful syntax where . means any character (sometimes omitting linebreaks) and *... what they just said
22:50:49 <ows> * alone doesn't play off words right?
22:51:10 <sbp> * can never be alone in a regular expression
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22:51:27 <sbp> it will always mean "any amount of the character or group that precedes this"
22:51:38 <sbp> if you use it at the beginning of a regular expression, you'll get an error
22:51:47 <sbp> it's known as a metachar
22:51:53 <ows> a*b* can match aaaaabbbb right?
22:51:57 <sbp> yep
22:52:03 <sbp> but not apppppbqqqqq
22:52:05 <ows> *b matches what?
22:52:13 <sbp> it's an invalid regular expression
22:52:23 <sbp> .eval __import__('re').compile('*b')
22:52:25 <phenny> error: nothing to repeat (file "/usr/lib/python2.4/sre.py", line 227, in _compile)
22:52:43 <sbp> .eval __import__('re').compile('b*')
22:52:45 <phenny> <_sre.SRE_Pattern object at 0x406974d0>
22:53:23 <ows> some days ago I asked if there's some regexp-based search engine
22:53:27 <ows> is there some?
22:53:58 <sbp> not that I know of
22:54:12 <sbp> it would be cool. I've often wanted to search for "@@" on Google
22:54:31 <jsled> twiki supports regexps for searching, as it uses `grep` to do so.
22:54:54 <ows> what @@ means? :P
22:55:05 <sbp> lots of systems support regexp for searches. vimdoc. cygwin packages find (IIRC). swhack tail
22:55:20 <sbp> but search engines, i.e. searching across the web? I don't think there are any
22:55:24 <sbp> @@ is a todo marker
22:55:25 <supybot> sbp: Error: "@" is not a valid command.
22:55:34 <sbp> and something which confuses supybot
22:55:34 <supybot> sbp: Error: "and" is not a valid command.
22:55:38 <sbp> just like everything, really
22:55:40 <sbp> @supybot--
22:56:37 <ows> by the way, how can I cut out everything except what regexp matches?
22:56:50 <sbp> in what language?
22:56:55 <sbp> emacs-lisp?
22:57:00 <ows> using emacs
22:57:16 <sbp> er, dunno. I don't know of an easy way to do that
22:57:29 <sbp> I could almost certainly code a function which does it
22:57:29 <jsled> ows: replace-regexp<RET>regexp-with-capturing-group<RET>group-id<RET>
22:57:47 *** GraveDigger is now known as ZzZzZz
22:59:17 <sbp> examples of regexp-with-capturing-group and group-id?
22:59:25 <sbp> will ([aeiou]) and $1 do?
22:59:31 <jsled> '\1'.
22:59:34 <sbp> ta
23:00:14 <ows> jsled: for instance if you want to cut out everything unless </wiki/*>
23:00:21 <ows> I should do replace-regexp<RET> </wiki/*>
23:00:29 <ows> and now?
23:00:39 <jsled> replace-regexp<RET>\(</wiki/.*>\)<RET>\1<RET>
23:02:19 <sbp> what's up with this? Symbol's function definition is void: \\\(\[aeiou\]\\\)
23:02:27 <sbp> input was: \([aeiou]\)
23:02:33 <jsled> ows: Actually, that won't quite do the right thing...
23:02:35 <sbp> similar problem when escaping [ and ]
23:02:35 <jsled> You'd want this:
23:02:42 <ows> jsled: yes, I know :P
23:02:52 <jsled> replace-regexp<RET>^.*\(</wiki/.*>\).*$<RET>\1<RET>
23:02:59 <jsled> To match everything else on the line.
23:03:32 <jsled> sbp: eh? At the replace-regexp prompt?
23:03:33 <sbp> what if </wiki/.*> occurs more than once on the line?
23:03:34 <ows> that doesn't match too :P
23:03:38 <sbp> jsled: yeah
23:04:07 <jsled> sbp: works here.
23:04:11 <sbp> odd
23:04:27 *** Resolutja (i=anon@tor/session/direct/x-d427ff13148b8cdb) has joined #swhack
23:04:50 <sbp> uh, even weirder--it works now
23:04:59 <sbp> I restarted emacs, so some state thing I guess
23:05:03 <sbp> hey Resolutja
23:05:12 <jsled> ows: hmm. yeah, that'll skip lines that don't contain '</wiki/.*>'.
23:05:23 <ows> what's the diff between \(</wiki/.*>\) and </wiki/.*>?
23:05:38 <sbp> how about this? replace-regexp<RET>^.*\(</wiki/.*>\)?.*$<RET>\1<RET>
23:05:45 <sbp> note the added question mark
23:05:47 <jsled> The ()'s create a group.
23:05:55 <jsled> They need to be escape in emacs-regexp.
23:05:58 <sbp> still won't work if there are multiple instances of </wiki/.*> of course
23:06:20 <ows> sbp: it erased almost everything :P
23:06:27 <ows> even </wiki/.*>
23:07:25 <ows> sorry but what \1 means?
23:07:32 <thelsdj> seems like you need .*?
23:07:37 <thelsdj> cause isn't * greedy?
23:07:56 <jsled> ows: "\1" is the id of the group.
23:08:02 <sbp> ah yeah, or [^>]+
23:08:10 <sbp> er, [^>]*
23:08:16 <thelsdj> right
23:09:19 <thelsdj> bah i need to finish fixing up my resume
23:09:23 <thelsdj> to send to google recruiter
23:11:31 *** nsh- has quit ()
23:16:50 <sbp> "Worked for Microsoft, under Steve Ballmer. Heh, heh."
23:17:45 <thelsdj> i'm mainly trying to figure out what will get me through to the next round
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23:28:24 <blueben> I think they depend a lot on phone screens
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23:45:59 <KragenSitaker> what about bison?
23:46:00 <probolog> bison is an instance of free software; bison is a part of the gnu project.
23:46:07 <KragenSitaker> what is an instance of free software?
23:46:07 <probolog> linux, openoffice, firefox, irssi, thunderbird, postgresql, mysql, bittorrent, jabber, emule, azureus, dc++, cdex, virtualdub, zsnes, shareaza, emule plus, phpbb, php, gaim, phpmyadmin, guliverkli, mplayer, cdrtools, gcc, vlc, xine, tightvnc, apache, nmap, zlib, glibc, webmin, libjpeg, perl, parrot, python, libart, gnome, openssl, xmms, ircd, gnome-terminal, bash, dpkg, electric fence, busybox, rsync, samba, buildbot, twisted, zope,
23:46:15 <KragenSitaker> what about linux?
23:46:15 <probolog> linux is an instance of free software; linux has an author linus torvalds; linux has an author alan cox; linux has an author greg kroah-hartman; linux has an author andrew morton.
23:46:35 <KragenSitaker> who is an author of linux?
23:46:35 <probolog> linus torvalds, alan cox, greg kroah-hartman, and andrew morton is an author of linux
23:46:55 <KragenSitaker> who is an author of electric fence?
23:46:55 <probolog> bruce perens is an author of electric fence
23:47:05 <KragenSitaker> who is an author of dpkg?
23:47:05 <probolog> wichert akkerman, ian jackson, and klee dienes is an author of dpkg
23:47:14 <KragenSitaker> what about wichert akkerman?
23:47:14 <probolog> wichert akkerman is an author of dpkg; wichert akkerman is a member of debian.
23:47:24 <KragenSitaker> who is a member of debian?
23:47:25 <probolog> wichert akkerman, ian murdock, bruce perens, edd dumbill, and branden robinson is a member of debian
23:47:39 <KragenSitaker> what about debian?
23:47:39 <probolog> debian has a part dpkg; debian has a member wichert akkerman; debian has a member ian murdock; debian has a member bruce perens; debian has a member edd dumbill; debian has a part apt; debian has a member branden robinson.
23:47:48 <KragenSitaker> dpkg is a part of what?
23:47:48 <probolog> dpkg is a part of debian
23:50:34 <kpreid> what about probolog?
23:50:34 <probolog> probolog has a bug the handling of "being"; probolog has a bug the handling of whitespace around the predicate; probolog has a bug the absence of queries; probolog is a bot of kragen; probolog has a bug the absence of responses to one of those queries; probolog has a bug writing lists of two items with a comma; probolog has a bug sending messages too long or irc; probolog has a bug the rendering of "what about" queries as "p; r; o; b
23:50:45 <kpreid> ookay.
23:50:48 <kpreid> .ety lanyard
23:50:51 <phenny> "alternate spelling (influenced by nautical yard (2) 'long beam used to support a sail') of M.E. lainer, 'thong for fastening parts of armor or clothing' (c.1386), from O.Fr. laniere 'thong, lash,' from lasniere, from lasne 'strap, thong,' apparently altered (by [...]" - http://etymonline.com/?term=lanyard
23:53:26 <KragenSitaker> what is a bug of probolog?
23:53:26 <probolog> the handling of "being", the handling of whitespace around the predicate, the absence of queries, the absence of responses to one of those queries, writing lists of two items with a comma, sending messages too long or irc, the rendering of "what about" queries as "p; r; o; b", the absence of complex queries, the inability to retract assertions, thinking someone isn't a pronoun, thinking comma isn't punctuation, and not accepting urls
23:53:32 <KragenSitaker> what about the handling of "being"
23:53:32 <probolog> the handling of "being" is a bug of probolog.
23:53:44 <KragenSitaker> what about sending messages too long or irc?
23:53:44 <probolog> sending messages too long or irc is a bug of probolog; sending messages too long or irc is a bug originally of twisted.
23:54:30 <KragenSitaker> what about thinking comma isn't punctuation?
23:54:30 <probolog> thinking comma isn't punctuation is a bug of probolog.
23:54:48 <KragenSitaker> the pancake is an allowed food of vegetarians.
23:54:49 <probolog> ok; also vegetarians has an allowed food the pancake?
23:55:03 <crschmidt> Unless they're steak pancakes.
23:55:05 <KragenSitaker> what about the pancake?
23:55:05 <probolog> the pancake is an allowed food of vegetarians.
23:55:25 <ows> sbp: you there?
23:55:38 <KragenSitaker> what about tim berners-lee?
23:55:38 <probolog> nothing known about tim berners-lee
23:56:01 <ows> sbp: look at this http://www.exalead.com/search/C=0/?2p=1
23:56:03 <KragenSitaker> the semantic web is a project of tim berners-lee
23:56:03 <probolog> ok; also tim berners-lee has a project the semantic web?
23:56:12 <ows> it seems that it supports regexp-based searches
23:56:16 <ows> have fun :)
23:56:23 <ows> try your @@ search
23:57:36 <KragenSitaker> kpreid is a skeptic of probolog
23:57:36 <probolog> ok; also probolog has a skeptic kpreid?
23:57:45 <KragenSitaker> what about is a skeptic?
23:57:45 <probolog> nothing known about is a skeptic
23:57:49 <KragenSitaker> what about has a skeptic?
23:57:50 <probolog> probolog has a skeptic kpreid.
23:57:56 <KragenSitaker> what about has an author?
23:57:56 *** probolog has quit (Excess Flood)
23:58:02 <KragenSitaker> ha
23:58:02 *** probolog (n=probolog@66-193-87-113.static.twtelecom.net) has joined #swhack
23:59:42 *** cskaterun (n=cskateru@cpe-72-132-233-177.san.res.rr.com) has joined #swhack
23:59:42 <Monty> lo cskaterun
