00:00:17 <bjoern_> it also happens that the csswg just recently tweaked the rightsizing bits in the spec a bit, which affects this scenario
00:00:34 <bjoern_> I don't have the bandwidth for details though
00:01:00 <clsn> sokay. not entirely important until it's more accepted and implemented anyway,.
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00:32:03 <clsn> damn. disney channel are being jerks. They keep throwing my daughter off the site because they say she needs the "latest, standards-compliant browser" with flash 8.0. Well, flash 7 is the highest available for Linux!!
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00:32:53 <jsled> yeah. I've seen a bunch of flash 8 sites in the last few days. :/
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00:33:29 <clsn> bleah extremely.
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00:45:03 <MoiraA> bye for a week everyone
00:45:05 <MoiraA> off to Shetland
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01:23:28 <jsled> Hmm. I didn't realize that CNN reports quote the word "shit" now. Awesome.
01:23:55 <jsled> Reporters, even.
01:28:44 <est> bad word!
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01:55:36 <Arnia> BOOM
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02:41:15 <bancus> .compare "dorian grey" "dorian gray"
02:41:18 <phenny> "dorian gray" (3,610,000), "dorian grey" (305,000)
03:49:06 * jsled laughs at quotes of old mst3k episodes from alt.binaries.multimedia.mst3k.
03:49:12 <jsled> Ha. ha. ha.
03:50:26 <jsled> [[[(A couple of no-pest strips could make this movie go away) yEnc [01/58] - "MST3K - 0905 - 20021214 - The Deadly Bees.PAR2"]]]
03:51:01 <jsled> [[[(Something goofy this way comes) yEnc [02/57] - "MST3K - 0315 - 20020131 - Teenage Caveman.part01.rar" (*/79) - 14.3M]]]
03:51:14 <jsled> [[[
03:51:15 <jsled> (Your father was a great man, and an even better side dish) yEnc [02/56] - "MST3K - 0110 - Robot Holocaust.part01.rar" (*/79) - 14.3M
03:51:15 <jsled> ]]]
03:51:53 <jsled> [[[(Look! Look! Look at my crotch!) yEnc [02/58] - "MST3K - 0317 - 20031106 - Viking Women and the Sea Serpent.part01.rar" (*/79) - 14.3M
03:52:02 <jsled> ]]] - hee hee, from the short at the beginning.
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04:30:21 <jsled> Hee [[[
04:30:26 <jsled> When the series finale (1013: Diabolik) aired, the Sci Fi Channel had an official IRC chat with Mike Nelson, Bill Corbett [5], and Kevin Murphy. When asked by fans if they should stop watching the Sci Fi Channel after MST3K's cancellation, Kevin Murphy responded "YES STOP WATCHING!! NOW!!!" before the moderators could respond. [6]
04:30:30 <jsled> ]]] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mst3k\
04:30:43 <jsled> Grr. s/^\\$//
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05:26:37 <Monty> Speak of the devil, it's libby!
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05:30:58 <Monty> yo cskaterun!
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06:10:58 <Monty> But what does vIkSiT have to do with the price of fish?
06:11:00 <phenny> Hush there, Monty.
06:11:07 <Monty> Who really like SVG is 86.0?F (12:50 PM EDT this happens we were that movies get more per month(than for which affects this morning.
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11:06:05 <sbp> .seen libby
11:06:05 <phenny> sbp: I last saw libby at 2006-07-18 09:59:15 UTC on #foaf
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11:37:53 <sbp> yo libby!
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12:11:33 <Monty> Speak of the devil, it's cori[s]!
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12:13:16 * Arnia prods Monty
12:13:16 <Monty> picked her off the building sucks
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12:19:42 <sbp> JibberJim: by the way, thanks; I just got to use man-with-a-huge-cock as an example image somewhere. it's really perfect for that
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12:24:13 <JibberJim> good good!
12:30:30 <redmonk> hiyo
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12:44:44 <sbp> today, Fortean Times asks: "Do noses in Nottinghamshire have a special retentive talent?" - http://www.forteantimes.com/
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12:49:13 <Monty> howdy, redmonk
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13:46:06 <jcowan> Ittywhonk!
13:48:04 <sbp> hi jcowan!
13:48:10 <sbp> "The English language is incapable of expressing how much I loathe Outlook. Id have to learn Klingon to really get the point across." - http://assortedgeekery.com/archives/2005/11/24/email_client_to_rule_them_all
13:48:42 * jcowan mwahahahahas.
13:48:43 <Arnia> hah
13:49:15 <jcowan> I don't actually *loathe* Outlook, but then I only use it when communicating with cow orkers.
13:50:38 <jsled> The IMAP interface to Exchange is pretty good. I actually find it faster, over a VPN, cross-US, than while in the office with Outlook itself.
14:03:12 <jcowan> What client do you use for it?
14:09:14 <Talliesin> I'm becoming increasingly unenamoured with Thunderbird.
14:09:32 <Talliesin> For a start, I wish they'd add Thunderbird to the list of mail clients they'll import from.
14:10:40 <jcowan> Don't they allow import from Eudora?
14:10:49 <jcowan> Or, I should say, import of what?
14:11:05 * jcowan uses mutt for serious email.
14:12:49 <kpreid> .compare outlook klingon [klingon outlook]
14:12:53 <phenny> outlook (418,000,000), klingon (6,790,000), klingon outlook (76,600)
14:13:19 <jcowan> Gak. However, that may be the ordinary noun "outlook".
14:13:36 <kpreid> hey, where's Google's "searching <bignum> web pages" number?
14:13:47 <kpreid> now I can't do the calculation I wanted
14:13:55 <jcowan> It must have gone the way of McDonald's.
14:13:57 <sbp> jcowan: have you tried using Thunderbird etc. as a replacement to mutt? what keeps you using mutt, exposure to it? in the same way that deltab uses BitchX instead of irssi (or did)
14:14:21 <jcowan> I did use Mozilla Mail for a long time instead of mutt, but it was just too slow for me.
14:14:33 <jcowan> Nothing can beat the ability to go dddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd
14:14:33 <sbp> I used Outlook Express for a long time, way too long, before moving to Thunderbird
14:14:39 <sbp> (and thence to Gmail, which rules the planet)
14:14:42 <sbp> chuckle
14:14:54 <sbp> yeah, it's still slow as crap
14:15:12 <jcowan> I was an elm guy before mutt.
14:15:23 <sbp> ooh, what precipitated that change?
14:15:37 <jcowan> and, hmm, I forget what before that.
14:15:45 <Talliesin> (15:08:33) jcowan: Don't they allow import from Eudora?
14:15:45 <Talliesin> I think they do, but you can't import from other Thunderbird files, say grabbed from a back-up or from another machine. Nuisance.
14:15:49 <jcowan> Elm stopped being maintained.
14:15:58 <sbp> ah
14:16:16 <Talliesin> How are you too these days anyway?
14:16:29 <jsled> jcowan: Evolution, I use.
14:16:31 <sbp> ehyup Talliesin
14:16:35 <Talliesin> My return to #swhack has been half-hearted and I haven't really followed anything.
14:16:37 <jcowan> I feel better than I have for a while.
14:16:52 <jcowan> Not much to follow. Too many people (dig! dig!) hiding in off-the-record channels.
14:16:56 <sbp> yeah man, you should get on the trolley! we's rockin' and rollin' and hackin' and sassin' as usual
14:17:04 <jcowan> Lies, foul lies.
14:17:04 <sbp> yeah, that's a huge problem
14:17:10 * sbp kills d8uv in the face
14:17:30 <Talliesin> I'm unconnected at home (for all the amount of time I'm there rather than at my GFs anyway) and busy when working.
14:17:37 <sbp> I of course contribute to the Swhacklessness by generally focussing on other windows
14:17:51 <sbp> Talliesin: ah, bummer
14:17:53 <jcowan> (hence the "(dig! dig!)")
14:17:55 <Talliesin> Off to Zealand for 6 days soon \o/
14:17:59 <sbp> yeah...
14:18:00 <Talliesin> Tomorrow in fact.
14:18:06 <sbp> ooh, nice. bring us all back a sheep!
14:18:21 <jcowan> Or at least the useful bits.
14:18:31 <sbp> heh
14:18:48 <jcowan> ("The good old days, when men were men and sheep were nervous.")
14:19:31 <sbp> "I've got a soft spot for Vicky, but it's getting harder all the time!"
14:19:52 * sbp actually has a Nigel Rees book
14:20:24 <Talliesin> Zealand is more seals and herrings than sheep
14:20:30 <Talliesin> New Zealand for the sheep.
14:20:34 <kpreid> http://countyoursheep.com/
14:20:38 <jcowan> "He is also the author of two books about graffiti." --WP
14:20:49 <jcowan> Ah.
14:21:19 <jcowan> I have been trying to discover how Ozites pronounce "Grote Eylant", but all I get is answers from wise-ass Dutchmen.
14:21:25 <sbp> Talliesin: oh, whoops
14:22:25 <sbp> bring us back a rock from Elsinore then, I guess
14:22:34 <jcowan> "Every episode since its inception in 1976 has been chaired by the devisor Nigel Rees." --WP s.v. "Quote... Unquote"
14:22:48 <jcowan> A masterpiece of badness, that sentence is.
14:23:28 <jcowan> Though rightly New Zealand is named after Zeeland, not Zealand.
14:24:31 <kandinski> jcowan: I find it a great line
14:25:04 <kandinski> it reads like England has come from an even weirder paralell dimension than the one it has come from in the present timeline
14:25:20 *** kandinski changed the topic to: "chaired by the devisor"
14:25:51 <Talliesin> Or to be really pendantic, New Zealand is named after the Zealand that is also called Zeeland, rather than the Zealand that isn't.
14:25:56 <jcowan> Not to mention the illogic of "Every episode ... since its inception in 1976". Obviously every episode did not begin in 1976!
14:26:09 * jcowan bows to Talliesin.
14:26:21 <kandinski> every episode since the inception of the series
14:26:44 <kandinski> that would be a mistake I could also make if there were a mention to the series in the previous sentence
14:26:53 <Talliesin> Pedantry is something it's important to be able to do, even if one normally shouldn't.
14:27:38 <kandinski> I do a lot of bad anaphora
14:29:02 *** danja (n=danja@host13-220.pool80104.interbusiness.it) has joined #swhack
14:29:26 <jcowan> "All episodes since its inception" would be unexceptionable.
14:29:34 <jcowan> (The series is indeed mentioned in the previous sentence.)
14:29:45 <Talliesin> Somewhat redundant.
14:29:49 <kandinski> true
14:30:00 <kandinski> there weren't any episodes *before* the inception
14:30:13 <kandinski> that was what I spotted at first
14:30:20 <Talliesin> I imagine the episodes before its inception would be the null set. And I don't even know what you are talking about.
14:31:32 <Talliesin> This appears to be an attempt to fit the facts that it was began in 1976 and that all episodes were chaired by Nigel Rees, who also devised it, into a single sentence. Striving for bonus points by using "inception" rather than "beginning".
14:31:41 <kandinski> This is something to think about:
14:31:47 <kandinski> I also do a lot of cataphora.
14:31:51 *** danja has parted #swhack ()
14:32:08 <kandinski> and "devisor"
14:32:15 <kandinski> don't forget "devisor"
14:32:53 <Talliesin> How you doing on endophora
14:32:59 <jcowan> "deviser" might be tolerable, but -or is rarely if ever productive in English.
14:33:11 <jcowan> Cataphora?
14:33:22 <Talliesin> A type of endophora.
14:33:30 *** locbot (n=locbot@bia.crschmidt.net) has joined #swhack
14:34:14 <crschmidt> locbot: extract Talliesin lives in Europe somewhere. I think he lived in Ireland. But I'm usually wrong -- for all I know, he could live in Stockholm. He doesn't seem like he's a resident of Sweden though.
14:34:17 <locbot> References: Europe (): 10.0000,50.0000 -- 1 occurrences, Stockholm (Sweden/Stockholm/Stockholm): 18.0500,59.3333 -- 1 occurrences, Sweden (Sweden): 17.5750,62.1998 -- 1 occurrences, Ireland (Ireland/Ireland): -8.0000,53.3333 -- 1 occurrences
14:34:33 <kandinski> http://buscon.rae.es/draeI/SrvltGUIBusUsual?LEMA=cat%C3%A1fora&TIPO_HTML=2&FORMATO=ampliado&sourceid=mozilla-search
14:34:37 *** kpreid changed the topic to: "chaired by the devisor, charred by the divisor"
14:34:47 <kandinski> that is the meaning I give "cataphora", from Spanish
14:34:54 <sbp> jcowan: gonna fix it on Wikipedia?
14:35:01 <crschmidt> locbot: set 151 Erie St., Cambridge, MA
14:35:05 <locbot> I bet you meant someplace called 151 Erie St., Cambridge, Ma at -71.1071, 42.3598.
14:35:15 <jcowan> I don't know. Should I, or should I leave it as a sort of monument?
14:35:20 <crschmidt> locbot: get crschmidt
14:35:22 <locbot> Location of crschmidt: -71.107066,42.359757
14:35:28 <crschmidt> good bot.
14:35:37 <sbp> I think you should fix it. the revision history is kept
14:35:39 <jcowan> [[
14:35:49 <Talliesin> jcowan: more to the point, devisor has a technical meaning different to "deviser". Or at least it's more commonly used in terms of devising property in a will, so it's either completely wrong, or at least misleading in implication.
14:35:53 <jcowan> [ ]]]
14:35:57 <sbp> we can always refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Quote..._Unquote&oldid=47595719 as the monument
14:36:03 <Talliesin> locbot: get Talliesin
14:36:03 <jcowan> Good points all.
14:36:05 <locbot> Don't know anything about Talliesin
14:36:35 <crschmidt> Talliesin: gotta 'set' first
14:36:35 <xover> locbot: get me a coffee
14:36:38 <locbot> Don't know anything about me
14:36:39 <Talliesin> crschmidt: you are remembering correctly that I live in Ireland. What's that running off. There's FOAF data around with my co-ordinates.
14:36:49 <crschmidt> Talliesin: it's running off what you tell it
14:36:57 <crschmidt> Talliesin: The semantic web failed while you weren't looking
14:37:19 <Talliesin> Ah. I wondered what was happening with Sem-Web the last year or so. Now I know. Pity.
14:37:30 <crschmidt> .g exhaustion with rdf
14:37:33 <phenny> crschmidt: http://crschmidt.net/blog/archives/85/exhaustion-with-rdf/
14:37:33 <locbot> exhaustion with rdf: http://crschmidt.net/blog/archives/85/exhaustion-with-rdf/
14:37:41 * jcowan reluctantly leaves "chaired" alone, since apparently "chairman" is the term used in the show.
14:37:42 <crschmidt> oh, man, that'll get annoying right quick
14:38:29 <jcowan> "panellist": is that an error, or a gb/us difference?
14:38:48 <kpreid> list of panels!
14:39:14 <Talliesin> crschmidt: oh dear. How are you apart from that? How's Jess?
14:40:04 <Arnia> jcowan: A panellist is someone on a panel
14:40:10 <jcowan> "Case and point" from the comments or crschmidt's article.
14:40:31 <jcowan> Arnia: Yes, but is the spelling with 2 l's correct? In en-us it's "panelist".
14:40:40 <jcowan> (which is not a list of panes, kpreid.)
14:40:46 <sbp> .compae panelist panellist
14:40:52 <sbp> .compare panelist panellist compare compae
14:40:55 <phenny> compare (1,030,000,000), panelist (11,700,000), panellist (354,000), compae (43,300)
14:40:55 <locbot> compare (1,030,000,000), panelist (11,700,000), panellist (354,000), compae (43,300)
14:41:04 <jcowan> 43 kghits for "compae"!
14:41:08 <sbp> yeah
14:41:15 <kpreid> jcowan: "PaneList", on the other hand…
14:41:16 *** locbot has quit (Remote closed the connection)
14:41:18 <sbp> perhaps it's latin for frogspawn
14:41:22 <jcowan> Still, Americans still dominate the net.
14:41:29 <jcowan> .oed panel(l)ist
14:41:34 *** locbot (n=locbot@bia.crschmidt.net) has joined #swhack
14:41:44 <kpreid> (for the record, in my English, "panellist" is wrong)
14:41:55 <Talliesin> MW suggests two Ls for en-GB and en-CA
14:42:03 <crschmidt> Talliesin: Jess is fine, doing well in school, just finished a photo class as part of summer session.
14:42:19 <Talliesin> Cambridge international adds en-AU and (confusingly) en-US
14:42:22 <crschmidt> Talliesin: picked up a new job last Friday, hopefully a little bit less rat-race like than contracting for the past year has been.
14:43:16 <jcowan> Talliesin: Thanks. I'll leave it alone, then, considering the British venue and the pervasive presence of "programme".
14:44:31 * kpreid just mistyped "you'd name" instead of "you named", and finds this cross-level error mildly interesting.
14:44:45 <Talliesin> Yeah, contracting sucks.
14:45:50 * crschmidt shrugs. Money's good, the fear that if you have a bad week you'll be out your rent money for the next month is not.
14:46:17 <jcowan> kpreid: "Rosa always date shranks" is a classic of that type.
14:46:24 <Talliesin> Yeah, I had a few too many bad weeks when I was freelance.
14:47:07 <kpreid> Ow.
14:47:18 <kpreid> "dated shrinks"?
14:47:33 <sbp> OED:
14:47:33 <sbp> panelled | paneled, a. (and n.)
14:47:33 <sbp> panelling | paneling, n.
14:47:33 <sbp> panellist | panelist, n.
14:48:00 <sbp> "panellists" was used in Nature in one of the quotes
14:48:52 <Talliesin> OED isn't entirely indicative of en-GB norms anyway - it's normative spelling convetions differing from those most often used in Britain, notably with regard to -ise/-ize and variant suffixes.
14:49:27 <sbp> well, just in the definition text
14:49:48 <sbp> in the headwords and its quotes it aims to be as descriptivist as possible
14:51:31 <Talliesin> Indeed.
14:52:06 <jcowan> Which is why we have en-gb-oed in RFC 3066.
14:52:24 <Talliesin> None the less, those headwords are not en-GB but en-GB-OED (a dialect of which Michael Everson may be the only native speaker :)
14:52:39 <jcowan> kpreid: Indeed. So the +past got removed from the verb and added to the noun as if it were the irregular verb "shrink"
14:52:55 <jcowan> No, he's a native of Pennsylvania.
14:53:47 <kpreid> jcowan: whereas mine was moving a "d" suffix even though it doesn't mean the same thing, but yes.
14:53:49 <Talliesin> I know I was speaking in jest. He's much taken to his new Co Mayo home though. I went visiting for a midsummer bonfire.
14:53:58 <jcowan> Ah, excellent.
14:54:18 <jcowan> or Maigh Eo, as he insists on spelling it.
14:54:49 <Talliesin> Well, depends on the context, but yes he does favour the Irish.
14:55:17 *** jcowan changed the topic to: "chaired by the devisor, charred by the divisor || Gossiping about Michael Everson"
14:55:28 <jcowan> His accent is interestingly transatlantic, isn't it?
14:55:47 <jcowan> I can't quite figure out if his hibernicisms are second nature or a conscious affectation at this point.
14:56:02 <jcowan> (in English, that is)
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14:56:45 <kpreid> "Is that a heaped or level spoonful of neutronium?"
14:57:03 <jcowan> Certainly after only a few weeks in Ireland I had pretty much stopped saying 'yes' and 'no'.
14:57:19 <jcowan> Or at least it took a conscious effort on my part *to* say them.
14:57:27 <Talliesin> The use of Irish forms of addresses and similar is common amongst Irish speakers. As an Irish speaker it would be easy for him to pick it up without much concious affectation.
14:58:04 <sbp> right so
14:58:08 <jcowan> I was actually thinking of the Hiberno-English constructions he uses, notably "Grand so" and similar short remarks.
14:58:16 <sbp> :-)
14:58:21 <jcowan> gmta
14:58:29 <jcowan> [[[
14:58:30 <jcowan> Norristown is in a rich agricultural region; in the past, it had extensive manufactures of cigars, tacks, wire, screws, boilers, bolts, silos, tanks, iron, hosiery, knitting machines, underwear, shirts, lumber and milling machinery, paper boxes, rugs, carpets, etc.
14:58:31 <jcowan> ]]]
14:58:31 <Talliesin> Where in Ireland? That particular hibernicism is no longer that common - or at least it's still not unusual to use alternatives to "Yes" and "No", but is unusual to never use them.
14:59:14 <Talliesin> "Grand so" is so common in some parts that it would be easily picked up. Certainly I picked it up druing my time in Dublin, though it's uncommon in Down where I grew up.
14:59:28 <jcowan> Gale and I took a five-week car trip around the whole island in 1982 or thereabouts.
14:59:56 * sbp flicks through http://www.mathstat.dal.ca/~selinger/papers/qpl.pdf
14:59:58 <Talliesin> Ah yeah, about 20 years ago the yes/no thing would have been more common.
15:00:04 <sbp> Towards a quantum programming language
15:00:04 <sbp> Mathematical Structures in Computer Science 14(4):527-586, 2004.
15:00:30 <sbp> er, that's A brief survey of quantum programming languages actually
15:00:41 * sbp gets the other too, via http://www.mathstat.dal.ca/~selinger/papers.html
15:00:43 <Arnia> sbp: have you seen the paper on a structured QPL?
15:01:25 <jcowan> Classical control? Bah. We want QUANTUM CONTROL! Superposed branching and execution!
15:01:34 <sbp> [[[
15:01:34 <sbp> One of the goals of programming language design is to identify and promote
15:01:36 <sbp> useful "high-level" concepts, abstractions or paradigms which allow humans
15:01:36 <sbp> to think about a problem in a conceptual way, rather than focusing on the
15:01:39 <sbp> details of its implementation. With respect to quantum programming, it is
15:01:39 <sbp> not yet clear what a useful set of abstractions would be.
15:01:40 <sbp> ]]]
15:01:42 <sbp> Arnia: nope?
15:01:51 <Arnia> sbp: http://tph.tuwien.ac.at/~oemer
15:02:18 <jcowan> I'm an unconscious mimic, too, which makes non-Americans think I have only a light American accent.
15:02:40 <nsh> .ety mine
15:02:44 <phenny> "O.E. min 'mine, my,' (pronoun and adj.), from P.Gmc. *minaz (cf. Goth. meins, O.N. minn, Du. mijn, Ger. mein 'my, mine'), from the base of me." - http://etymonline.com/?term=mine
15:03:37 <jcowan> nsh: if you wanted "mine" = "place where ore comes from", it came through French from Latin, and was probably borrowed there from a Celtic language.
15:03:56 <jcowan> "from the base of me" -- not bad.
15:04:23 <nsh> ah
15:04:25 <nsh> ty jcowan
15:04:40 <sbp> Arnia: thanks
15:04:55 <nsh> c.1303, from O.Fr. mine, probably from a Celtic source (cf. Welsh mwyn, Ir. mein "ore, mine"), from O.Celt. *meini-. Italy and Greece were relatively poor in minerals, thus they did not contribute a word for this to Eng., but there was extensive mining from an early date in Celtic lands (Cornwall, etc.). The verb meaning "to dig in a mine" is from c.1300.
15:04:58 <kandinski> sbp: you would have the "shrug", "aaah?" and "collapse" operators
15:05:15 * sbp gets http://tph.tuwien.ac.at/~oemer/doc/structquprog.pdf
15:05:29 <nsh> sbp, would it be possible to have a flag for .ety to get 2nd/etc entries?
15:05:31 * sbp waves
15:05:33 * sbp particles
15:05:34 <kandinski> (also known as "don't_care", "don't_know" and "should_try_and_find_out" operators)
15:06:14 <sbp> nsh: that's what the link is for. repeated queries are noise
15:06:21 * nsh smiles
15:06:35 * Arnia diffracts sbp
15:06:35 <kandinski> jcowan the unconscious mimic: gorf willing you can turn it off, or else I should never meet you
15:06:45 <sbp> nsh: but I'll flag it in etymology.py in case I can find a nice way to do it
15:06:57 <sbp> for example, I managed to think up ".swhack" ignoring for the .swhack command
15:07:38 <sbp> loggy: pointer?
15:07:38 <loggy> http://swhack.com/logs/2006-07-19#T15-07-38
15:08:03 <jcowan> kandinski: I think it would be more accurate to say I can hold it down or limit it, but I can't just turn it off; it comes out more strongly when I am excited or animated.
15:08:15 <sbp> nsh: there we go, you're officially in the source
15:08:21 <kandinski> I am one too, and I do it more consciously in English than in Spanish
15:08:22 <Arnia> mmm... nectarines, raspberries and blueberries
15:08:46 <sbp> nsh: also, if you have some particular use cases in mind it'd let me think how phenny ought to do it
15:08:55 <jcowan> kandinski: A F2F conversation between us would probably be some wildly unstable oscillation of accents.
15:09:05 <kandinski> so we could end up drifting towards our own pidgin (if it weren't because mimicking non-native speakers is usually more easily supressed)
15:09:06 <sbp> one guideline I subscribe to is that phenny should try as much as possible to mimic how I do stuff
15:09:14 <sbp> hence the "..." - URI format for .ety in the first place
15:09:32 <kandinski> jcowan: couldn't mutual attraction lead us to a stable state?
15:09:46 <jcowan> Conceivably.
15:10:08 <jcowan> But I wouldn't just postulate an attractor in this phase space; we'd have to experiment.
15:10:25 <kandinski> my favourite example is how I "get" a navarro accent when visiting, and the ensuing row with my cousins:
15:10:31 <kandinski> < cousin> quit mocking me!
15:10:41 <kandinski> < me> (mimicking her accent) I am not mocking you!
15:10:52 <sbp> Arnia: ooh, this looks good but mathy. I'd have to spend some time learning the mathy bits
15:11:33 * jcowan laughs heartily.
15:11:37 <Arnia> sbp: I'm still working on the maths... my tensor theory is better now, but my calculus still isn't good enough
15:11:48 <jcowan> What is a navarro accent like, and is it Basque-y (vasconic?)?
15:11:48 <Arnia> Have other things to worry about really though
15:12:10 * sbp was thinking about doing university level maths after doing well at college level maths, but decided that that would be insane since he entirely hates it, and has avoided it ever since :-)
15:12:44 <kandinski> jcowan: some people confuse them, but navarro-rivera (which is where my family is from) can be indistinguishable from Aragonés
15:12:54 <kandinski> Ribera, damn, and I am being logged!
15:12:56 <sbp> maths is annoying because it's so useful but so boring
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15:13:19 <kandinski> sbp: yes, maths, corkscrews, reaping corn by hand...
15:13:19 <jcowan> sbp: have you read Mermin's paper "From Cbits to Qbits"? Recommended. http://www.arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0207118
15:13:28 <sbp> it sits there taunting me
15:13:33 <jcowan> reaping corn with corkscrews
15:13:42 <sbp> jcowan: oh, thanks. yeah, you'd mentioned it before but I don't think I had time to look at it
15:14:15 <jcowan> (of course in jcowan's mind the image produced is of gathering _maize_ with corkscrews, qua even more bizarre)
15:15:19 <jcowan> spam subject line: "If you are NOT A HOTEL please let us know"
15:15:26 <jcowan> I think I won't.
15:15:37 <kandinski> jcowan: actually maize makes sense, compared to wheat
15:16:06 <jcowan> Yeah, I guess you could at that.
15:16:09 <kandinski> although nowadays all cereals are reaped with a machine that has a helical Archimedes's Screw elevator
15:16:16 <jcowan> True.
15:16:27 <kandinski> you could make one of cork
15:16:31 * jcowan winds the corkscrew around the stalk, rips the ear off
15:17:10 * Arnia likes maths :p
15:17:20 * jcowan likes math, but it doesn't like him, alas.
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15:19:47 <jcowan> Gale finds her native accent embarrassing, despite all encouragement from me.
15:20:16 <jcowan> And when she goes home or even talks to her relatives on the phone, she picks it up again right away and takes several hours to a day to lose it again.
15:20:26 <jcowan> Of course they all think she talks like a Yankee.
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15:23:19 <jcowan> "the ugly and orthographically preposterous term _qubit_"
15:24:14 <Arnia> k'bit
15:25:48 <kandinski> what is wrong with "al q'bit"?
15:26:38 <jcowan> It would probably become "alcubit" on the analogy of "alcohol" < al-koh/l, thus suggesting a false analogy with "cubit".
15:26:49 <jcowan> (Which "qubit" does too)
15:27:00 <jcowan> (Which I can hardly stop myself from writing as "quibit")
15:27:10 <jcowan> the sound made by a quantum frog, presumably
15:27:42 <jcowan> Doug Hofstadter propounded a special case of quantum theory called "frog-ripple equivalence"
15:28:00 <jcowan> from the frog one may deduce the ripple and vice versa
15:28:23 <jcowan> Alas, there lacks the proper relationship between the mass of the frog and the wavelength of the ripple, at least in water.
15:28:55 * jcowan loses it.
15:33:57 <sbp> heh: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/5188258.stm
15:36:24 <kandinski> "given the spherical frog..."
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16:03:29 <bancus> Bahahaha.
16:03:39 <bancus> Joel Siegel walked out of Clerks 2.
16:03:59 <bancus> In the scene that sent Siegel to the exit, the characters graphically discuss hiring a woman to perform sexual favors on a donkey.
16:04:01 *** clsn (i=1000@pi.meson.org) has joined #swhack
16:04:02 <Monty> lo clsn
16:04:22 <clsn> That's what they all say, Monty.
16:04:23 <Monty> Lies, foul lies.
16:04:42 <perigrin> bancus: see I think he would have seen that coming since the Donkey in question is in the commercials.
16:04:49 <sbp> I don't care what anyone says, Monty is definitely getting better
16:04:51 <Monty> religious beliefs == nutcrackers;
16:04:52 <clsn> That was pretty cogent.
16:04:55 <sbp> see?
16:05:12 * sbp waves to bancus, perigrin, clsn
16:05:25 * perigrin waves to sbp
16:05:32 <bjoern_> Monty getting da boing
16:05:33 <kpreid> I doubt he can keep it up.
16:05:34 <Monty> needs to Eng., but perhaps know)
16:05:36 <kpreid> @echo > "Monty"
16:05:37 <supybot> > Monty
16:05:39 <Monty> Nothing can go back a mail...)
16:05:40 <Monty> I reckon inbreeding + paperclips = spheres!
16:05:43 <swhask> Not in scope: data constructor `Monty'
16:05:46 <Monty> IIRC, Keith Chegwin adores extra-marital mouth :(
16:06:06 * bancus waves bock.
16:06:19 <perigrin> Gir any idea what Monty is?
16:06:20 <Monty> Have you asked such questions before ?
16:06:24 <Gir> perigrin: Yes I think there are.
16:06:37 <perigrin> Gir: excellent opaque question
16:06:38 <Gir> perigrin: Glad to hear it.
16:06:45 <perigrin> er answer
16:06:50 <bancus> back, even
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17:14:47 <Monty> hey est
17:14:58 <bunnywabbit_> hi
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17:23:50 <crschmidt> Cool feature of the MetaCarta GPAPI I only found out about yesterday:
17:23:52 <crschmidt> locbot: url http://www.cums.org.uk/alumni/Yale-Cambridge.pdf
17:24:00 <locbot> References: London (United Kingdom/London/London): -0.1167,51.5000 -- 2 occurrences, avg confidence: 0.618472, Moscow (Russia/Moscow City/Moscow): 37.6156,55.7522 -- 4 occurrences, avg confidence: 0.955724, Yale University (United States/Connecticut/New Haven/Yale University): -72.9269,41.3111 -- 1 occurrences, avg confidence: 0.934279
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19:51:28 <tobbez> phenny: how does your .rule for modules work? ;)
19:53:55 <tobbez> i would have been surprised if she'd answered though :)
19:55:02 <crschmidt> tobbez: it's a regex
19:55:54 <crschmidt> Hm, or maybe it's not always
19:56:07 <crschmidt> f_loc_help.rule = r'(?i)\.help locbot'
19:56:16 <tobbez> there are two types of them from what i've seen
19:56:19 <crschmidt> looks for .help locbot
19:56:28 <crschmidt> at the start of the string
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19:57:06 <tobbez> how would i do if i wanted to match every msg that started with the bot's name?
19:57:30 <crschmidt> r'botname(.*)$'
19:57:51 <crschmidt> actually, probably:
19:57:57 <crschmidt> r'$nick(.*)$'
19:58:00 <crschmidt> from:
19:58:00 <crschmidt> f_thanks.rule = r'(?i)^(thanks|cheers|ta|thank you),? $nick[!.]?$'
19:58:12 <crschmidt> - http://inamidst.com/phenny/modules/thanks.py
19:58:21 <crschmidt> I wonder if $nick is some special case
19:58:40 <tobbez> I think that's the bot's name
19:58:41 <crschmidt> yep
19:58:41 <crschmidt> elif isinstance(rule, basestring):
19:58:41 <crschmidt> rule = rule.replace('$nick', self.nick)
19:59:31 <tobbez> thanks, got it working :)
19:59:39 <crschmidt> np! glad i could help.
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20:48:59 <ows> what's the best way to analyse a 3 GB RDF file
20:49:15 <ows> (without using sesame or stuff like that)
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20:50:38 <perigrin> analyse how?
20:51:44 <ows> well, for instance, a 30KB file
20:51:59 <ows> can be managed quite easily with emacs
20:52:11 <ows> what's the solution to a 3 GB RDF file?
20:52:29 * perigrin has cracked open 3GB files with less, and more ... and for that matter vim
20:52:44 <ows> hum
20:52:47 <ows> I'll try
20:52:55 <ows> but doesn't seem easy
20:54:00 <perigrin> it's not ... and most of the files I deal with regularly that are that size are 1) pipe deliminated and 2) I'm trying to process with grep or sed or awk anyway
20:54:06 <ows> is there something that ease navigation in RDF files
20:54:10 <ows> (using vim or emacs)
20:54:43 <perigrin> not that I know of using those two, I find myself using find a lot
20:55:07 <crschmidt> a 3GB file in vim... you better hope you've got a lot of memory
20:55:13 <crschmidt> at least, with syntax highlighting on
20:55:41 <perigrin> hmm ... I usually use vi rather than vim
20:56:01 <perigrin> I didn't realize vim would try to load it into ram
20:56:31 <crschmidt> I don't know exactly what it does.
20:56:44 <crschmidt> But I know that I don't open Very Large Files (> 100MB) in vim, usually just use less/more
20:58:03 <perigrin> which brings us back to "analyse how" ? :)
20:58:19 <perigrin> Are you trying to figure out if it's well formed, or what data it contains ?
20:58:23 <perigrin> or something else?
20:58:38 <crschmidt> ows: typically, with Very Large RDF, I'll just load it into Redland, and use SPARQL against it.
20:59:14 <perigrin> and that's probably what I'd recommend with some kind of DB Backed storage rather than an in-memory solution
20:59:37 <crschmidt> Sorry, I should be more specific:
20:59:44 <crschmidt> I'd load it into a MySQL-backed Redland storage
20:59:47 <crschmidt> and use SPARQL against it
21:00:05 <perigrin> I'd heard rumors there's pg backing now :)
21:00:14 <crschmidt> Oh?
21:00:23 <crschmidt> I've not seen anything about that on the redland list
21:00:27 <perigrin> ubu mentioned it in #axkit-dahut
21:01:02 <perigrin> he and nacho use redland *a lot* at their job.
21:01:08 <crschmidt> "Storage for graphs in memory, with Sleepycat/Berkeley DB, MySQL 3/4, AKT Triplestore, SQLite, files or URIs."
21:01:12 <crschmidt> Not mentioned on the homepage.
21:01:27 * perigrin shrugs
21:01:30 <perigrin> I said it was a rumor
21:02:02 <crschmidt> Redland Sucks Anyway, just like the Semantic Web
21:02:12 <jsled> heh.
21:02:21 <jsled> just like computers, too.
21:02:22 <perigrin> in fact
21:02:23 <perigrin> http://lists.usefulinc.com/pipermail/redland-dev/2006-July/001355.html
21:02:45 <crschmidt> interesting
21:02:52 <crschmidt> good point, i remember seeing that and just ignoring it at the time :)
21:02:58 <crschmidt> Anyway, I'm a MySQL user
21:03:03 <crschmidt> postgres is a Scary Database
21:03:12 <crschmidt> MySQL is a good database for Stupid People Like Me
21:03:51 <perigrin> I make nacho maint both for me these days :)
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21:36:09 <ows> perigrin: what the data contains (using regexp or something like that)
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21:44:08 <perigrin> less then
21:44:18 <perigrin> supports regex and isn't as beefy as vim :)
21:49:41 <ows> ok, thx
21:49:46 <ows> gotta walk off
21:50:04 <ows> cya
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21:57:14 <Monty> Thank goodness, cskaterun is back!
21:57:16 <phenny> Be quiet, Monty.
21:57:18 <Monty> Too many types of Interest Sign."
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22:35:48 <bjoern_> "Router or Router"
22:35:51 <bjoern_> great slide
22:35:59 <bjoern_> I think my head 's going to explode soon
22:36:08 <bjoern_> Monty!
22:36:11 <Monty> appears to setup is your credit card number?
22:36:41 <bjoern_> Monty, I have neither credit nor cards. I have a few numbers, but I leek to keep those.
22:36:45 <Monty> We must accept that green unspecific spokes smacks fat spiffy Barra.
22:36:45 <bjoern_> leek?
22:37:08 <bjoern_> Monty, I must not accept anything. And I need not, either.
22:37:11 <Monty> "I've got midp3 wiki text, and "devisor"
22:37:22 <bjoern_> cool Monty!
22:37:23 <Monty> mobibot:recap
22:37:30 <bjoern_> Monty...
22:37:32 <Monty> <- a dumb idea either water
22:37:47 <bjoern_> yeah, well, who'd disagree with that.
22:38:33 <perigrin> Monty you're really tough on yourself ...
22:38:33 <Monty> nice.
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22:48:05 <RandyWalker> I must have a Wii!
22:48:06 <RandyWalker> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtOEwylegII&search=rayman
22:49:28 <sbp> yeah, I want a Wii too
22:49:38 <sbp> also a PSP so that I can get the blob tilt thing
22:50:11 <sbp> LocoRoco
22:51:19 <kandinski> yes
22:51:27 <kandinski> LOCOROCO RULES LOOOPS
22:51:52 <sbp> mmm... LocoRoco
22:52:02 <bjoern_> Final Fantasy XIII for Wii? :(
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23:09:50 <bjoern_> Now http://basshunter.m0o.eu/anna/karaoke_en.php is a #swhack video if there ever was one
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23:20:50 <JibberJim> ooh we need a phenny song - and you need to be in #svg bjoern_!
23:21:03 <bjoern_> why o why?
23:21:27 <bjoern_> I mean, I know why we need a phenny song
23:21:38 <bancus> .ety scuttlebutt
23:21:41 <phenny> "1805, 'water cask kept on a ship's deck,' from scuttle 'opening in a ship's deck' (see scuttle (v.2)) + butt 'barrel.' Earlier scuttle cask (1777)." - http://etymonline.com/?term=scuttlebutt
23:22:22 <JibberJim> because #svg is friendly and never on topic!
23:22:37 <crschmidt> Isn't that also true of Swhack?
23:22:57 <kandinski> no: there is actually some svg talk in #swhack
23:23:10 <sbp> woah man, you're right. or like we could rename phenny to Anna
23:23:54 <JibberJim> she's a bit tall
23:24:12 <JibberJim> no crschmidt, because there's often random CARNAGE here
23:25:50 <crschmidt> CARNAGE is on topic?
23:25:56 <crschmidt> Or CARNGAGE is not friendly?
23:26:11 <bancus> Random CARNEGIE!
23:26:15 <darobin> ooh, crschmidt
23:26:21 * darobin waves
23:26:31 <JibberJim> it's on topic!
23:26:51 <bjoern_> hey darobin
23:26:55 <darobin> bjoern_!!!!!!
23:27:00 <bjoern_> how did you get sucked into #swhack??
23:27:03 <darobin> you superstar you :)
23:27:10 <darobin> I get sucked a lot
23:27:16 <darobin> errr, or something like that
23:27:23 <bjoern_> you know, there's no ESC #SWHACK button on your keyboard.
23:28:37 <crschmidt> hi darobin
23:29:33 * darobin heard that qa-dev is hiring
23:29:35 * darobin hides
23:35:01 * kandinski is watching H2G2 and not finding it especially funny, thank you very much
23:35:07 <darobin> kandinski++
23:35:17 <darobin> no, the movie sucks
23:36:22 <darobin> Bjoern The Master!
23:36:50 * darobin too
23:37:38 <darobin> and it doesn't matter, you can be a perfectly bad student and then turn into a perfect failure just like me!
23:38:48 * darobin confirms that
23:38:56 <JibberJim> or a bad student and turn into my sort of failure!
23:40:58 * darobin nods
23:41:47 * darobin passes out due to the heat
23:43:19 <JibberJim> they collect a fat salary and enough expenses for an "assistant"
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23:43:34 <sbp> ooh, assistant
23:43:59 <sbp> baby you can drive my car, and all that malarkey?
23:44:32 <JibberJim> I was more thinking someone to keep your diary, do the post, take minutes, that sort of stuff
23:44:58 <JibberJim> ensure that you make the right meetings with the consitutents
23:45:14 <sbp> or meet with the constituents for you
23:45:25 <sbp> whilst you're down the pub discussing important tax issues with the other MEPs
23:46:17 <JibberJim> hmm, It doesn't sound like you're taking your responsibilities seriously as an MEP
23:48:00 <sbp> what responsibilities?
23:48:11 <sbp> Europe's doing just fine
23:52:04 <JibberJim> It's not expanding!
23:52:12 <JibberJim> what was the last country it conquered!
23:52:25 <JibberJim> come on it should be pushing out, take turkey
23:52:28 <sbp> huh, that's a very good point
23:52:39 <sbp> Turkey isn't done yet, so I hear
23:52:48 <sbp> they have to be kinder to humans first or something
23:52:55 <JibberJim> so as an MEP you could be forcing it!
23:56:16 <sbp> "be kinder to humans so that we can invade you and make you one of us!"
23:56:36 <sbp> what after Turkey? turn to Asia, or to Africa?
23:56:43 <bancus> Russia
23:56:47 <sbp> we'd have to recontinentalise them
23:56:52 <sbp> okay, I guess Russia makes more sense
23:56:57 <sbp> since it's partly in Europe anyway
23:57:01 <bancus> exactly
23:57:06 <sbp> well, same with Turkey. that's partly in Asia
23:57:12 <sbp> and they really are thinking of adding it to the EU
23:57:15 <bancus> You're pushing the limits as it is.
23:57:16 <sbp> they've got some nerve
23:57:18 <sbp> yeah
23:57:31 <bancus> But once you've done them, you can change your name to the Eurasian Union
23:57:44 <bancus> Keep the same acronyms and everything, then start gobbling up asia.
23:58:05 <bancus> One you have asia you get 7 extra men per turn, then you don't even need a name, you can say "Fuck you, world, we own you."
23:58:40 <bancus> Assuming you can hold asia, which has been historically tricky.
23:59:02 <bjoern_> I'd like the EU to acquire antarctica; antarctica not only has a stargate and an ancient outpost, but also lots of fresh water, which is sort of important.