00:00:08 <Arnia> sbp: really?
00:00:15 <deltab> he is!
00:01:19 <sbp> that's what Wikipedia says, and yeah :-)
00:01:47 * crschmidt waves from Apple Network 78fd, 8 blocks from his hotel in Lausanne
00:01:47 <sbp> it cites "The Guardian, 17 July 2003" for that information
00:01:53 <sbp> crschmidt! hello!
00:01:53 <crschmidt> these people have apparently never heard of community wireless
00:01:57 <sbp> just read your posts
00:02:12 <sbp> you're in Switzerland now, man
00:02:20 <sbp> you have to buy everything—with gold
00:02:20 <crschmidt> so!?
00:02:23 <crschmidt> yeah
00:02:26 <crschmidt> it sure does seem that wya
00:02:35 <sbp> bring us all back a cuckoo clock, would ya!
00:02:38 <crschmidt> fucking 5 francs for a piece of toast
00:02:50 <sbp> .calc 5 swiss francs in dollars
00:02:53 <phenny> 5 Swiss francs = 4.01735497 U.S. dollars
00:02:57 <sbp> ...
00:02:58 <crschmidt> single piece!
00:03:11 <sbp> was it hatched by virgins?
00:03:20 <jetx> she-it
00:03:20 <crschmidt> this is the price of switzerland, dude!
00:03:38 <crschmidt> taking the metro 4 stops is a 2.80 afair!
00:03:40 <crschmidt> affair*
00:03:50 <Arnia> Reminds me of the tube...
00:03:55 <crschmidt> yeah
00:03:59 <crschmidt> it's about half as much as the tube
00:03:59 <Arnia> £3.20 or something for a zone 1 journey
00:04:06 <crschmidt> but tha'ts fucking london
00:04:24 <sbp> £3.20? huh. a One Day Travelcard is damn good value then
00:04:43 <Arnia> sbp: yeah...
00:05:04 <Arnia> London is apparently the most expensive city in the world to live in now...
00:05:08 <Arnia> Doesn't surprise me
00:05:22 <Ash> I thought Tokyo was still more expensive
00:05:41 *** jetx has quit ("i gave up (i tried)")
00:05:45 <Arnia> I think I read in the Guardian and Times that London was
00:05:54 <Arnia> Dead-tree versions
00:06:17 <sbp> SOMEONE
00:06:19 <sbp> KILLED
00:06:20 <sbp> A TREE
00:06:22 <sbp> FOR YOU
00:06:23 <sbp> TO READ
00:06:25 <sbp> NEWS
00:06:29 <sbp> - a poem, by me
00:07:42 <sbp> "Poetry (from the Greek "ποίησις," poesis—a "making" or "creating") is a form of art in which language is used for its aesthetic qualities in addition to, or in lieu of, its ostensible meaning."
00:07:52 <sbp> - Wikipedia on Poetry, by Wikipedia
00:09:58 * Arnia explodes
00:10:30 <thelsdj> sbp: thats beautiful
00:12:58 * Arnia declares sbp to be Swhack Poet Laureate
00:15:43 <thelsdj> no, that should be Swhack's Best Poet, or SBP for short
00:18:26 <sbp> heheh
00:18:35 <crschmidt> night all
00:30:46 *** perigrin (n=perigrin@c-69-180-170-86.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) has joined #swhack
00:33:51 * Arnia sings Radiohead -- Creep
00:35:08 <perigrin> creep, liar ...
00:36:37 <Arnia> weirdo :p
00:38:20 <perigrin> :)
00:39:39 <Arnia> Radiohead night tonight I think
00:40:09 <perigrin> heh
00:41:32 <Arnia> may itunes a bit
00:43:21 * perigrin ponders being totally antisocial in the house tonight and listening to his ipod.
00:44:39 <Arnia> heh
00:44:53 * Arnia sends perigrin a thousand copies of Richard Wallace
00:53:45 *** BigJibby (n=matt@149.99.158.12) has joined #swhack
00:56:26 <perigrin> .wik Richard Wallace
00:56:30 <phenny> "Sir Richard Wallace, 1st Baronet (1818 - 1890), art collector" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Wallace
00:56:36 <perigrin> hmm ....
00:56:53 <perigrin> .wik Richard Wallace (Singer)
00:56:57 <phenny> Can't find anything in Wikipedia for "Richard Wallace (Singer)".
00:57:06 <perigrin> .g Richard Wallace
00:57:08 <phenny> perigrin: http://www.alicebot.org/bios/richardwallace.html
00:57:20 <perigrin> I thought the name sounded familiar.
00:57:34 <perigrin> girbble, do you like listening to Richard Wallace?
00:57:34 <Arnia> One of the few people in the world I think *can* be modelled as an FSA
00:57:44 <girbble> perigrin: I really like INVADER ZIM!.
00:58:14 <perigrin> Arnia, one of the few people in the world to *try* to model himself as an FSA.
00:59:10 <Arnia> Strange strange man
01:02:34 *** edsu (n=esummers@66.187.134.52) has joined #swhack
01:08:19 <perigrin> sbp++ # for reasons I can't disclose.
01:09:24 *** iratsu__ (n=iratsu@modemcable157.255-37-24.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #swhack
01:19:48 <BigJibby> phenny, help
01:19:50 <phenny> Hi, I'm phenny (http://inamidst.com/phenny/)
01:19:53 <phenny> Commands: beats, charinfo, codepoint, compare, email, gimage, google, googlecalc, googlecount, httphead, kalusa, map, myersbriggs, podecoint, rate, rates, remind, representation, seen, swhackorigin, swhacktail, tavtime, thesaurus, time, translate, validate, wordnet
01:19:57 <phenny> Try "phenny: help command?" if stuck. My owner is sbp.
01:20:20 <BigJibby> phenny, help representation
01:20:22 <phenny> '.repres <str> - Return the representation of <str>.'
01:20:35 <sbp> .bytes is a synonym
01:20:37 <phenny> 'is a synonym'
01:20:50 <BigJibby> .repres blahrg o
01:20:53 <phenny> 'blahrg o'
01:21:13 <sbp> .bytes —
01:21:15 <phenny> '\xe2\x80\x94'
01:21:18 <BigJibby> .repres 6
01:21:20 <phenny> '6'
01:21:26 <Arnia> .beats sbp
01:21:29 <phenny> @89
01:21:29 <supybot> phenny: Error: "89" is not a valid command.
01:21:39 <sbp> heh
01:21:49 <BigJibby> phenny, help myersbriggs
01:21:52 <phenny> '.myersbriggs - Find your Myers-Briggs Type.'
01:22:02 <BigJibby> .myersbriggs
01:22:05 <phenny> BigJibby: Your Myers-Briggs type is INFJ
01:22:49 <sbp> BadServ
01:22:49 <BigJibby> .wik Myers-Briggs
01:22:51 <phenny> "The Myers-Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI) is a personality test designed to assist a person in identifying some significant personal preferences." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers-Briggs
01:22:51 *** cskaterun (n=cskateru@cpe-66-27-66-22.san.res.rr.com) has joined #swhack
01:23:39 <BigJibby> phenny, help kalusa
01:23:40 <phenny> '.kalusa <regexp> - Search the Kalusa corpora.'
01:23:50 <sbp> .kalusa chicken
01:23:51 <phenny> No results for 'chicken'
01:23:56 <sbp> .kalusa tokti
01:23:57 <phenny> #1526: Tokti dun haidono es elawovai. | The chicken laid an egg. (116.67)
01:23:59 <phenny> #1524: Va tokti duna onati bi elawovai duna onati? | What came first, the chicken or the egg? [Was chicken first or egg first] (100)
01:24:01 <phenny> #1523: Tokti dun haidono elawovai. | The chicken laid an egg. (83.33)
01:24:27 <perigrin> .meyersbriggs
01:24:28 <sbp> .kalusa chicken?
01:24:31 <phenny> #1526: Tokti dun haidono es elawovai. | The chicken laid an egg. (116.67)
01:24:33 <phenny> #1524: Va tokti duna onati bi elawovai duna onati? | What came first, the chicken or the egg? [Was chicken first or egg first] (100)
01:24:35 <phenny> #1523: Tokti dun haidono elawovai. | The chicken laid an egg. (83.33)
01:24:52 <sbp> there we go, reverse searches require a trailing "?"
01:25:00 <sbp> perigrin: you need to spell it correctly to use it, sadly
01:25:05 <perigrin> bah
01:25:07 <sbp> no fuzzy matching
01:25:11 <perigrin> that's why I ned hard ai
01:25:21 <sbp> we all ned a good hard AI
01:25:22 <perigrin> .myersbriggs
01:25:24 <phenny> perigrin: Your Myers-Briggs type is ISTJ
01:25:32 <perigrin> phenny, you're just guessing.
01:25:35 <sbp> .myersbriggs
01:25:38 <phenny> sbp: Your Myers-Briggs type is IUNO
01:25:41 <sbp> she's not! it's scientific!
01:25:49 <perigrin> she's wrong then.
01:25:49 <BigJibby> .kalusa dog|doggy
01:25:51 <phenny> No results for 'dog|doggy'
01:25:57 <sbp> guaranteed to provide as much accuracy as all other Myers-Briggs tests
01:26:23 <perigrin> The other four times ... well she got the I and the T right.
01:26:38 <perigrin> compared the last four times I was forced to take it.
01:26:43 <sbp> BigJibby: again, to look up English words, you need a trailing question mark
01:26:51 <sbp> .kalusa dog|doggy?
01:26:54 <phenny> #587: Ma dun gada lok mung kia kauno. | I trod in dog feces. (144.44)
01:26:56 <phenny> #213: Tekusta da kaunonaye. | The library is free of dogs. The library is dogless. (144.44)
01:26:58 <phenny> #1200: Heyuze kia ma bogi es kauno, ira ziresh. | My sister wants a dog. (137.5)
01:27:06 <BigJibby> oh
01:27:08 <sbp> hehe. lok mung kia kauno
01:27:15 <sbp> I'm surprised how much of that I can still read
01:27:27 <sbp> "in feces of dog"
01:28:27 <BigJibby> phenny, help tavtime
01:28:30 <phenny> '.tavtime - Return the current tavtime, possibly with yi.'
01:28:32 <sbp> ooh, it's really pissing it down
01:28:34 <sbp> .tavtime
01:28:36 <phenny> 2642.2.3.15.46
01:28:41 <sbp> hmph, no yi
01:29:43 <BigJibby> phenny, help beats
01:29:46 <phenny> '.beats - Returns the current internet time'
01:30:08 <BigJibby> no ddate?
01:30:14 <sbp> ddate?
01:30:39 <BigJibby> Today is Prickle-Prickle, the 35th day of Bureaucracy in the YOLD 3172
01:30:53 <sbp> what?
01:31:00 <sbp> have you gone mad?
01:31:24 <BigJibby> almost
01:31:34 <Arnia> Discordian calendar
01:31:45 * astecp draws a sacred chao on his fivehead
01:31:47 <Arnia> Very common on UNIX systems
01:32:39 <BigJibby> http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~tilt/principia/
01:33:40 <sbp> yes, the world's least funny joke
01:33:44 <sbp> I am aware of it
01:34:46 <BigJibby> phenny, help rates
01:34:49 <phenny> '.rates <query> - Return the rock/suck rating for <query>.'
01:34:58 <BigJibby> phenny, help rate
01:35:00 <phenny> '.rate <query> - Return the rocks/sucks rating for <query>.'
01:35:25 <BigJibby> .rate me
01:35:32 <phenny> "me": 57.45% (22,200 rocks; 45,300 rules; 39,700 sucks; 10,300 blows)
01:35:32 <BigJibby> .rates me
01:35:40 <phenny> "me": 39.81% (428,000 rock; 50,200 rule; 336,000 suck; 387,000 blow)
01:37:38 <BigJibby> @whois swhack.com
01:37:39 <supybot> BigJibby: Error: The command "whois" is available in the Internet and Network plugins. Please specify the plugin whose command you wish to call by using its name as a command before "whois".
01:37:50 <BigJibby> @internet whois swhack.com
01:37:55 <supybot> BigJibby: swhack.com is active, registered 09-may-2004, updated 11-jul-2006, and expires 09-may-2007.
01:39:25 <BigJibby> @internet symbolics.com
01:39:26 <supybot> BigJibby: Error: The "Internet" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "symbolics.com" in it. Try "list Internet" to see the commands in the "Internet" plugin.
01:39:34 <BigJibby> @internet whois symbolics.com
01:39:37 <supybot> BigJibby: symbolics.com is registrar-lock, registered 15-mar-1985, updated 15-aug-2006, and expires 16-mar-2007.
01:40:38 <BigJibby> @internet whois cmu.edu
01:40:41 <supybot> BigJibby: cmu.edu <registered at publicinterestregistry.net> is active, registered 24-apr-1985, updated 25-apr-2006, and expires 24-apr-2007.
01:42:40 <BigJibby> @internet whois archive.org
01:42:42 <supybot> BigJibby: archive.org <registered at networksolutions.com> is client transfer prohibited, registered 14-Dec-1995 05:00:00 UTC, updated 18-Oct-2004 22:53:25 UTC, and expires 13-Dec-2008 05:00:00 UTC.
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02:03:29 <BigJibby> I'm inside you twe
02:03:52 <twe> I wonder if twe didn't say twe all the duplicate terms and have the if (empty) ... Else ... You would see the ?%f6 problem only inside the else.
02:06:25 <BigJibby> JibbyBot, say @echo phenny, tell twe to tell Monty girbble said hi
02:06:26 <JibbyBot> @echo phenny, tell twe to tell Monty girbble said hi
02:06:26 <Monty> "error" kick user
02:06:27 <supybot> phenny, tell twe to tell Monty girbble said hi
02:06:29 <Monty> if (emotions == Atari ST) { legs jumps on colossal outings;}
02:06:30 <phenny> supybot: I'll pass that on when twe is around.
02:06:30 <Monty> spears's pram drinks dental sugar!
02:06:31 <supybot> phenny: Error: "I'll" is not a valid command.
02:06:35 <twe> Hi, phenny, monty.
02:06:38 <phenny> twe: 01:53Z <supybot> tell twe to tell Monty girbble said hi
02:06:38 <Monty> Right...
02:06:40 <Monty> Fact: critical wasteful snippets fingers undressed antiquated dosh.
02:06:54 <twe> Girbble, hear that? Twe says don't be a qualified scribe to write this fanfic that's been wandering the universe where you can only wish.
02:06:58 <twe> Well said, monty!
02:06:59 <Monty> uhhhh
02:07:00 <girbble> twe: Do you try to stop people from fighting? Are they exactly the same?
02:07:05 <twe> Anyone around who is twe?
02:07:09 <twe> phenny: I said hi monty.
02:07:13 <Monty> whereas 2-d means to agree to compete with jmirc and you run around some documentation
02:07:21 <twe> girbble: Even though they were talking about the you who is interested in joining, so here i am.".
02:07:26 <girbble> twe: When were they?
02:07:36 <twe> girbble: They were saying that doing xxxx would take ages, and my domain name.
02:07:42 <girbble> twe: When were they?
02:07:59 <twe> girbble: There is just a shareholder, unless they provide less than if html were to be called colourless. Perhaps they mean "naively colourless.
02:08:05 <girbble> twe: Tell me more about it. You seem uncertain. Who are "They?".
02:08:11 <twe> girbble: You asked me to it.
02:08:16 <girbble> twe: Oh now I remember asking you you to it. What did you say?
02:08:23 <twe> girbble: I was asking you.
02:08:24 <perigrin> oh dear this will go on all night
02:08:28 <girbble> twe: " Oh now I remember asking you you to it. What did you say?"? You were asking me?
02:08:34 <twe> girbble: You remember me?
02:08:40 <girbble> twe: Of course I remember you well . We were talking about A shareholder unless they provide less than if html were to be called colourless.
02:08:49 <twe> girbble: Well, it was about to mention that.
02:08:54 <girbble> twe: How about that. Is it still about to mention that anymore?
02:09:02 *** girbble has quit (Remote closed the connection)
02:09:05 <twe> girbble: Tell oxblood http://inamidst.com/xyzzy (referer)? What would it do that anymore.
02:12:16 <BigJibby> .w fanfic
02:12:19 <phenny> I couldn't find 'fanfic' in WordNet.
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03:17:08 <Mike_L> .val http://tamale.net/
03:17:12 <phenny> http://tamale.net/ is Valid
03:17:41 <Mike_L> .val http://swhack.com/
03:17:46 <phenny> http://swhack.com/ is Valid
03:17:56 <Mike_L> .val http://www.cnn.com/
03:18:03 <phenny> http://www.cnn.com/ is Invalid (42 errors)
03:18:20 <Mike_L> .val http://www.npr.org/
03:18:24 <phenny> http://www.npr.org/ is Invalid (106 errors)
03:18:50 <Mike_L> .val http://inamidst.com/
03:18:54 <phenny> http://inamidst.com/ is Invalid (5 errors)
03:19:05 <Mike_L> doh
03:19:41 <jsled> .val http://beeradvocate.com/
03:19:45 <phenny> http://beeradvocate.com/ is Invalid (15 errors)
03:19:53 <sbp> Mike_L: you have to force a doctype
03:20:06 <clsn> .val http://web.meson.org/
03:20:10 <phenny> http://web.meson.org/ is Valid
03:20:21 <Mike_L> sbp: I thought the website was supposed to define its own doctype
03:20:50 <sbp> "This Page Is Tentatively Valid XHTML 1.0 Strict" - http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Finamidst.com%2F&charset=%28detect+automatically%29&doctype=XHTML+1.0+Strict
03:21:31 <Mike_L> sbp: the doctype is necessary for validity, is it not?
03:21:54 <sbp> Mike_L: I use RELAX NG Compact, and all the while that the use of XHTML discriminates against being able to link to an RNC schema from an instance document, then I will not use the necessary doctypes, no
03:22:28 <Mike_L> sbp: what's an RNC schema?
03:22:34 <sbp> .wik RELAX NG
03:22:38 <phenny> "In computing, RELAX NG (REgular LAnguage for XML Next Generation) is a schema language for XML, based on Murata Makoto's RELAX and James Clark's TREX." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RELAX_NG
03:22:49 <sbp> it's the compact, non-XML, syntax of that schema language
03:23:31 <Mike_L> so you're using a non-XML language to specify your site?
03:23:44 <jsled> *gasp*
03:24:22 <sbp> Mike_L: yes. note that DTDs are also non-XML
03:25:21 *** perigrin has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep")
03:25:22 <Mike_L> sbp: but your choice means that you cannot comply with the W3C standards?
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03:27:16 *** Arnia changed the topic to: "2006-09-12 || BREAKING NEWS: SEAN'S STANDARDS SUBTERFUGE!"
03:27:34 <tonybaloney> Arnia: LOL
03:27:35 * Arnia dresses sbp in a trenchcoat and panama hat
03:27:47 * tonybaloney borks in response
03:27:55 <Arnia> Of type fnord?
03:27:56 <sbp> Mike_L: it's not a *strictly* conformant XHTML 1.0 document, but on the other hand see section 3.1.2 (http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/#normative), which talks about non-conformance and namespace mixing
03:28:36 <sbp> "Work by W3C is addressing ways to specify conformance for documents involving multiple namespaces." says the specification; but this work has not, as of yet, materialised, so one is left to do the best that one can
03:28:56 <sbp> Masayasu Ishikawa did do some excellent work with MNG for mixing namespaces
03:29:05 <sbp> but I don't think he's actively involved in HTML work anymore
03:29:07 *** perigrin (n=perigrin@c-69-180-170-86.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) has joined #swhack
03:29:12 <Arnia> LOAN's primary syntax will not be XML-based :p
03:29:21 <sbp> good :-)
03:29:39 <sbp> XML is a hammer for which there are no nails
03:29:45 <sbp> (okay, very few nails)
03:30:11 <Mike_L> sbp: if your whole site uses that schema then could you get your web server to prepend the doctype to each page as it goes out?
03:30:42 <Arnia> sbp: although I see an XML syntax materialising :p
03:31:15 *** Xavier_ is now known as xavier
03:31:36 <Arnia> <statement freq="1" conf="0.9"><atom>Joe</atom><intset><atom>tired</atom></intset></statement>
03:31:54 <sbp> Mike_L: you don't even know whether my schema is a subset of an XHTML 1.0 DTD yet! and in actual fact, it currently isn't because of the boundaries that I'd have to put on the attribute values. I'm not sure it's fully expressible, or if it is I'm not sure how to prove it
03:32:04 <Arnia> Or, in a more normal syntax: Joe --> [tired] %1%
03:32:14 <sbp> nonetheless, it's close enough for the moment
03:32:25 * Mike_L shudders to think of the difficulty of implementing a verifier for documents specified with relax ng's recursive definitions
03:32:43 <sbp> I keep thinking about using James Clark's modularised XHTML schemata, and working on top of those
03:32:52 <Arnia> bah, silly binary categorisations ;)
03:32:58 <sbp> but without the W3C putting its weight behind all this...
03:33:11 * Arnia wonders if NAL could be used as part of a verification system
03:33:16 <sbp> Mike_L: if James Clark can implement a RELAX NG validator in elisp... :-)
03:34:06 * Mike_L should stop trying to think of anything... his brain is fried from studying
03:34:24 <sbp> I read Neurogenesis & Stress
03:34:28 <Arnia> (()((()())))
03:34:31 <sbp> feeling no better? sad to hear it if so
03:34:53 <Mike_L> sbp: :)
03:36:08 <Mike_L> I wrote that in March, in the middle of midterm exam week
03:37:08 <sbp> "I can't wait to graduate and stop wasting time on meaningless busywork. I feel ready to act on my dreams. Only 6 more months!" - you wrote that eight months ago
03:37:38 <Mike_L> yeah, I put off one final exam
03:37:44 <sbp> aha
03:37:56 <sbp> delayed gratification!
03:37:57 <Mike_L> the prof just got back from working at MS Research India over the summer
03:38:04 <sbp> cool
03:38:10 <Mike_L> so I get to take the exam on Wednesday (>.<)
03:38:41 <Mike_L> it would be cool if he wasn't a lousy teacher, using a disgraceful book
03:39:08 <Mike_L> http://www.amazon.com/Object-Oriented-Classical-Software-Engineering-Stephen/dp/0072865512/ref=ed_oe_h/103-1601074-6599852?ie=UTF8
03:39:31 * jsled wonders when amazon.com urls got much better.
03:39:42 <jsled> s/asin/resource-names/ !
03:40:01 <Mike_L> they certainly got long
03:40:02 <jsled> I noticed only a few days ago, but I don't use amazon too too much.
03:41:23 <sbp> huh, http://www.takingchildrenseriously.com/the_keeping_ones_options_open_mentality is great
03:41:24 <Mike_L> what do you call a textbook on a practical subject, software engineering, that contains only 10 references to the author(s) in the form of the words 'I', 'me', 'us', 'we', etc.
03:42:06 <sbp> and yeah, they should just use ISBNs for goodness' sake
03:42:20 <sbp> http://amazon.com/0072865512
03:42:21 <Mike_L> yeah, ISBN + an edition code
03:43:06 <sbp> I thought you're supposed to change ISBNs between editions?
03:43:31 <twe> I thought you're supposed to be subject to frequent revision, is time varying (processes etc) or comes from sidlesham in the northern pinewoods. The author was pessimistic: the climate is too long for hetero sex.
03:43:44 <Mike_L> haha
03:44:01 <sbp> yeah, thanks a bunch there twe
03:44:07 <Mike_L> this works: http://www.amazon.com/dp/0072865512
03:44:09 <twe> Ok thanks twe.
03:44:29 <sbp> Mike_L: ooh, nice! how'd you find that?
03:44:41 <Mike_L> I remember finding textbooks that had the same ISBN but were different editions
03:44:58 <Mike_L> I just experimented with deleting portions of the URL
03:45:04 <sbp> heh
03:45:35 <sbp> works for .co.uk too
03:45:43 <Mike_L> cool
03:46:52 <Mike_L> http://www.edutopia.org/magazine/ed1article.php?id=Art_1195&issue=nov_04 <-- The Muddle Machine, Confessions of a Textbook Editor
03:46:59 <jsled> Wow. The republicans here are *operators*. http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NzhjODk1ODg4M2NiODU4Yzc3YWE1OTA1MDNmYWQ5M2Y=
03:47:04 <jsled> Rove is back in fighting trim.
03:47:31 <jsled> They've got this whole "Clinton nearly actively committed terrorist acts himself" thing going in prep for elections...
03:47:44 <sbp> Mike_L: have you read Feynman on textbooks?
03:48:02 * Mike_L is convinced 100% that Dr. Schach did not write Object-Oriented and Classical Software Engineering, but instead applied his name to a frankenstein book that was assembled by a "muddle machine" for college texts
03:48:39 <Mike_L> sbp: not yet. do you have an url?
03:48:50 <sbp> trying to find one... I know it was online somewhere...
03:50:12 <sbp> Mike_L: I think this is it: http://www.textbookleague.org/103feyn.htm
03:50:58 <Mike_L> haha "Annals of Corruption: Part 1"
03:51:15 <sbp> it's a really good read
03:51:36 * Mike_L reads
03:52:21 <Mike_L> after I take this exam, finish my research project, and get my degree, I intend to bring up the quality of the textbook with the school administration
03:52:43 <sbp> heh, good luck
03:53:00 <Mike_L> I just want to know who chose it and why
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03:54:26 <sbp> when I used to question stuff like that I'd get answers such as "because we've always done it that way", "because we're paid to use this software", "because we have lots of experts here for this already"
03:54:37 <sbp> basically tradition and backscratching
03:55:09 <bjoern_> hey sbp!
03:55:56 <sbp> hey bjoern_!
03:56:03 <sbp> we're talking about how textbooks suck
03:56:12 <sbp> but I won't be, for long, because it pains me
03:56:33 <bjoern_> I'm hungry.
03:56:47 <sbp> I was too. I had fish
03:56:54 <sbp> now I am thinking about crackers with butter on them
03:57:15 <sbp> lately I've been liking food foods. staples, simple things
03:57:19 <bjoern_> I'm afraid I'd have to clean the dishes and in fact the kitchen before I can make anything...
03:57:21 <sbp> basically: simple foods with awesome twists
03:57:22 <Mike_L> sbp: I would expect such backwardness from the university as a whole, but not from the College of Engineering
03:57:30 <Mike_L> or the College of Medicine
03:57:48 <sbp> it seems to be prevalent everywhere, regardless of subject or institution
03:58:21 <sbp> the expositional, educational qualities of materials take second place behind other factors
03:58:38 <sbp> it's just what it means to be at university. I mean, the whole thing is kinda pointless really
03:58:48 <sbp> but everybody trudges through it
03:59:23 <sbp> I'm preaching to the choir, I know... "meaningless busywork"? :-)
04:00:19 <sbp> I'm most bitter because I had a very stimulating and wonderful A-Level period
04:00:34 <Mike_L> I disagree with "it's just what it means to be at a university"
04:00:44 <sbp> oh?
04:00:56 <Mike_L> I think that there must be some universities that have no bad textbooks
04:01:17 <Mike_L> and if there aren't, then at least it must be possible to create a new university that has no bad textbooks
04:01:32 <sbp> I'm really not so sure
04:01:39 <sbp> I mean, look at AaronSw's experiences with Stanford
04:01:57 <sbp> it's meant to be one of the top grade universities in America, and yet it's apparently quite horrible in these ways
04:02:17 <sbp> the reference to Feynman's piece was via http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/001650
04:02:24 <Mike_L> wow this is gold: "Everything was written by somebody who didn't know what the hell he was talking about, so it was a little bit wrong, always!"
04:02:24 <sbp> "Stanford: Textbooks for Idiots"
04:03:20 <sbp> I think the fact that it's so universal might point to there being an inherent problem in the system somewhere, and something which even a group of people devoted to fixing would not be able to avoid
04:03:20 <Mike_L> I've had exactly that thought as I read through the first 2/3 of Object-Oriented and Classical Software Engineering by Dr. Stephen R. Schach
04:03:48 <sbp> Dr. Stephen R. Schach, if you're watching, you're a little bit wrong! always!
04:04:28 <Mike_L> I did some research on Dr. Schach and his website lists a lot of research but no actual participation in software engineering work
04:04:48 <sbp> interesting. so why is he writing textbooks?
04:05:25 <Mike_L> sbp: I'm just stating my opinion. I hope the log of this channel doesn't end up as the #1 google hit for his name... I don't want to be sued for libel.
04:05:39 <sbp> of course
04:05:59 <Mike_L> although it might be a form of justice if the former happened
04:06:10 <sbp> I hope that academics can critique one another's work on this level without fear of libel :-)
04:06:42 <sbp> it's not even a critique, it's a personal recommendation at this level
04:06:53 <sbp> though I suspect you could write a paper about it or something
04:06:56 <Mike_L> yeah, but I said that I'm 100% sure
04:07:08 <Mike_L> in fact, I'm not 100% sure that he didn't write the entire book
04:08:00 <sbp> what I want to know is: where are the courses about clear design and exposition, and what are their textbooks like? :-)
04:08:14 <jsled> heh
04:08:26 <Mike_L> I suppose there's a tiny chance that he wrote each couple of paragraphs separately over a period of time where his personality and writing style changed dramatically, assembled the pieces together with an automated tool, and finally threw in laundry list summaries at the ends of chapters
04:08:33 <sbp> Tufte, Yale?
04:08:42 <sbp> heh
04:09:09 <sbp> .gc textjunk
04:09:13 <phenny> textjunk: 30
04:10:45 <sbp> ooh, it's pissing it down again
04:11:26 <sbp> smells wonderful
04:11:36 <Mike_L> rain?
04:11:48 <sbp> yeah
04:11:56 * Mike_L guesses that "it's pissing it down" means "rain is falling lightly"
04:12:19 <Mike_L> Britishisms are interesting
04:12:26 <sbp> heh, no, imagine someone who's been wanting to go to toilet for a week now
04:12:35 <sbp> but prevented by some urethra corking mechanism
04:12:36 <Mike_L> hehe
04:12:43 <Mike_L> that sounds very painful
04:12:45 <jsled> heh. I understand it was unseasonably warm last week, though that might have been localized.
04:12:47 <sbp> torrents, man
04:12:57 <Mike_L> now I need to use the toilet... brb
04:13:00 <sbp> today was the hottest day here since July
04:13:02 <sbp> hehe
04:14:04 <sbp> I mean, that's a crazy indian summer, when it's hotter than any day that August produced
04:14:28 <sbp> give us our autumn already, for goodness' sake. I'm sick of summer
04:14:44 <sbp> and I dislike autumn more than summer, so that shows just how much I'm sick of this year's summer
04:15:22 <sbp> actually, I think it's made me change my mind about that whole summer/autumn thing
04:15:42 <sbp> I think that summer blows more; though that won't be true if this warm patch continues through October... :-)
04:15:45 <Mike_L> it's already cold here in Chicago
04:16:05 <sbp> lucky you. though I don't begrudge you your winter...
04:16:07 * Mike_L loves Spring
04:16:14 <sbp> mmm... Spring...
04:17:02 <sbp> winter too is awesome in Britain. probably a bit like your spring
04:17:38 <Mike_L> hmm maybe, as you are surrounded by water
04:17:55 <Mike_L> winter in Tokyo would be nice if the buildings were heated
04:17:56 <sbp> and we have the Gulf Stream
04:18:03 <Mike_L> ah
04:18:12 <sbp> ooh, Tokyo. how are its other seasons?
04:18:29 <sbp> I've only been to Chicago in Winter; never been to Tokyo
04:18:44 <Mike_L> spring is amazing, summer is hell, fall is alternately wonderful and sopping wet
04:18:56 <sbp> heh
04:19:20 <Mike_L> winter in Tokyo is mild, but few buildings have central heating, so individual rooms are heated
04:19:42 <sbp> (arse, broken crackers don't hold up well to buttering)
04:19:43 <Mike_L> which means that the furniture is often cold, and the hallways and toilets, too
04:19:57 <sbp> ah. what kinds of temperatures does it get down to?
04:20:18 <Mike_L> 5-10 C
04:20:48 <sbp> ah right, hence mild
04:20:58 <Mike_L> in Winter 2004-2005 I remember only a couple of times that were < 0C
04:21:02 <sbp> I used to have a rule that I wouldn't play golf when the weather forecast said under 12C
04:21:11 <sbp> (and thanks for using celsius, by the way!)
04:21:19 <Mike_L> but my classrooms were about 15C all the time
04:21:32 <Mike_L> you're welcome :)
04:22:14 <sbp> did you go travelling anywhere else in Japan whilst you were there?
04:22:15 <Mike_L> I can endure any kind of winter as long as I can come indoors, take off my jacket, and warm up!
04:22:18 <sbp> ooh, lightning
04:23:03 <Mike_L> I visited some tourist attractions around Tokyo, toured Chiba prefecture (the peninsula south-east of Tokyo), and went to the 2005 World Expo in Nagoya
04:26:20 <sbp> .wik 2005 World Expo
04:26:23 <phenny> Can't find anything in Wikipedia for "2005 World Expo".
04:26:47 <bjoern_> .g 2005 World Expo site:wikipedia.org
04:26:49 <phenny> bjoern_: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World's_Fair
04:27:08 <sbp> huh, this is some major lightning here
04:27:09 <bjoern_> .wik Expo 2005
04:27:15 <phenny> "Expo 2005 was the World's Fair held in Aichi Prefecture, Japan, east of the city of Nagoya." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expo_2005
04:27:20 <Mike_L> http://www.expo2005.or.jp/
04:28:28 <Mike_L> many nations had pavilions that were very interesting
04:28:47 <Mike_L> I liked Mexico's pavilion the best. it was so peaceful and artistic
04:30:20 <Mike_L> Ireland's pavilion gave me the creeps
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04:41:11 <Mike_L> hmm... I should install some proper blog software on my site
04:43:24 <Mike_L> Aaron has the perfect word for these crappy textbooks: insulting
04:43:32 <Mike_L> "I think it.s because Zimbardo.s book is at some fundamental level insulting. It says .this topic is so boring and you.re so stupid that we have to give you some stupid example about alarm clocks and mountain climbers.."
04:47:43 <Mike_L> now I want to write a note on my site with all of these links and my opinion about Dr. Schach's book
04:47:57 <sbp> heh, heh
04:48:11 <sbp> please do!
04:48:17 <Mike_L> hmm I guess I should wait until after the exam
04:48:23 <sbp> oh yeah, that thing
04:48:36 <Mike_L> I'll just have to remember to look at the channel log :)
04:49:15 <sbp> loggy: uri?
04:49:15 <loggy> http://swhack.com/logs/2006-09-12#T04-49-15
04:49:28 <Mike_L> cool
04:51:49 <Mike_L> I keep reading 'RELAX NG' as 'relax nang'
04:52:07 <Mike_L> 'nahng' is the reading of 'ng' in Tagalog
04:52:29 <Mike_L> s/reading/pronunciation
05:02:48 <bjoern_> .pc o
05:02:55 <phenny> 006F: LATIN SMALL LETTER O (o)
05:08:53 * xororand cuddles phenny
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05:52:03 <CottonBalls> Was there a problem with CBBOT??? I think he may have been banned...
05:52:05 <phenny> CottonBalls: 07 Sep 14:54Z <jsled> tell CottonBalls that CBBOT shouldn't greet people on channel entry. It's annoying. Monty's bad enough, but at least he's Monty.
05:52:06 <Monty> yay for them!
05:52:09 <phenny> CottonBalls: 07 Sep 22:27Z <sbp> tell CottonBalls that CBBOT's autogreet feature was pissing everybody way the hell off so a #swhack chanop (rightly) banned it in my absence. please stop it doing the annoying thing if you want it back in the channel; I don't really care either way (does it do anything useful?). thanks!
05:52:28 <jetscreamer> heh
05:52:32 <CottonBalls> ohhhh.....
05:52:53 <CottonBalls> oh im sry...
05:59:33 <bjoern_> .ety ebb
05:59:36 <phenny> "O.E. ebba, perhaps from P.Gmc. *abjon, from *ab-, from PIE base *apo- 'off, away' (see apo-)." - http://etymonline.com/?term=ebb
06:00:23 <bjoern_> .compare "ebb and flow" "ebb and tide" "ebb and flood"
06:00:26 <phenny> "ebb and flow" (2,380,000), "ebb and flood" (79,900), "ebb and tide" (13,800)
06:04:15 <xororand> .rate "f lock"
06:04:22 <phenny> "f lock": 0.0% (0 rocks; 0 rules; 43 sucks; 0 blows)
06:04:33 <xororand> hehe, 0%, way to go
06:04:38 <bjoern_> .rate F16
06:04:38 <xororand> phenny: full ack
06:04:45 <phenny> "F16": 98.73% (49 rocks; 2,440 rules; 13 sucks; 19 blows)
06:04:55 <bjoern_> .rates F16
06:05:02 <phenny> "F16": 99.29% (5 rock; 555 rule; 3 suck; 1 blow)
06:05:18 <xororand> what's .rates, bjoern_?
06:05:36 <bjoern_> rocks rock rules rule sucks suck blows blow ...
06:06:11 <bjoern_> .rates blondes
06:06:18 <phenny> "blondes": 8.53% (694 rock; 8,940 rule; 47,700 suck; 55,600 blow)
06:06:21 <xororand> .rates "beavis & butt-head"
06:06:28 <phenny> "beavis & butt-head": 100.0% (83 rock; 645 rule; 0 suck; 0 blow)
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06:19:57 <bjoern_> .calc 1 year in sidereal days
06:20:00 <phenny> 1 year = 366.242199 sidereal days
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08:18:49 <bjoern_> This just in: "XHTML2 will be using the same namespace as XHTML1" -- HTML Working Group
08:19:27 <JibberJim> followed by a version property?
08:19:41 <bjoern_> I have no idea.
08:20:39 * xover waits for the announcement that all web content must be served as application/octet-stream, contain no DOCTYPE or XML Declaration, and depend on heuristic encoding determination.
08:21:15 <xover> Oh wait... Did that allready happen?
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08:43:31 * crschmidt yawns
08:45:13 <JibberJim> hey crschmidt
08:45:39 <crschmidt> hey JibberJim
08:46:06 <benjick> morning
08:46:26 <bjoern_> hey, they finally invoked Godwin in the SGML complexity thread on xml-dev.
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09:16:09 <bjoern_> hmmmm http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/09/11/1050215
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09:48:26 <bjoern_> .gc "I'm more interesting in"
09:48:29 <phenny> "I'm more interesting in": 609
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11:07:47 <Monty> Thank goodness, cori[s] is back!
11:07:49 <phenny> Be quiet, Monty.
11:07:50 <Monty> sbp!
11:09:15 <bjoern_h> countdown
11:09:16 <Monty> One large one and five small numbers: 75, 10, 4, 2, 9, 9. Your target is 211. You have thirty seconds, tick, tock, tick, tock...
11:09:33 <bjoern_h> calc (75 + 4*9)*2
11:09:33 <Monty> bjoern_h: 222
11:09:42 <bjoern_h> calc (75 + 4*9)*2 - 10
11:09:42 <Monty> bjoern_h: 212
11:09:46 <Monty> Duh dum, duh dum, duh-da-da-dum! Your 30 seconds are up!
11:09:47 <cori[s]> thank goodness!, I;'m back!
11:09:47 <Monty> I found a solution in approximately 6 milliseconds. I found all 50 solutions in about 191 milliseconds.
11:09:49 <Monty> ibot (2*9 + 4)*10 - 9
11:09:55 <bjoern_h> yo cori[s]
11:09:58 <benjick> bjoern_h: close call :]
11:10:12 <bjoern_h> getting close is easy...
11:10:13 <cori[s]> yo bjoern_h
11:10:14 <bjoern_h> countdown
11:10:15 <Monty> One large one and five small numbers: 75, 6, 6, 3, 5, 1. Your target is 747. You have thirty seconds, tick, tock, tick, tock...
11:10:34 <bjoern_h> calc (75 - 5) * (6+5)
11:10:34 <Monty> bjoern_h: 770
11:10:44 <Monty> Duh dum, duh dum, duh-da-da-dum! Your 30 seconds are up!
11:10:46 <Monty> I found a solution in approximately 15 milliseconds. I found all 44 solutions in about 290 milliseconds.
11:10:48 <Monty> ibot (6 + 5 - 1)*75 - 3
11:10:50 <bjoern_h> countdown
11:10:50 <Monty> One large one and five small numbers: 50, 10, 2, 10, 9, 5. Your target is 578. You have thirty seconds, tick, tock, tick, tock...
11:11:04 <bjoern_h> calc (50 + 10 - 2)*10
11:11:04 <Monty> bjoern_h: 580
11:11:20 <Monty> Duh dum, duh dum, duh-da-da-dum! Your 30 seconds are up!
11:11:21 <Monty> I found a solution in approximately 44 milliseconds. I found all 8 solutions in about 248 milliseconds.
11:11:23 <Monty> ibot (50 + 9)*10 - 2 - 10
11:11:26 <bjoern_h> countdown
11:11:26 <Monty> One large one and five small numbers: 75, 6, 4, 7, 4, 1. Your target is 475. You have thirty seconds, tick, tock, tick, tock...
11:11:39 <bjoern_h> calc 6*(75 + 7)
11:11:39 <Monty> bjoern_h: 492
11:11:43 <bjoern_h> calc 6*(75 + 4)
11:11:43 <Monty> bjoern_h: 474
11:11:45 <bjoern_h> calc 6*(75 + 4) + 1
11:11:45 <Monty> bjoern_h: 475
11:11:55 <benjick> YOU WIN!
11:11:56 <Monty> Duh dum, duh dum, duh-da-da-dum! Your 30 seconds are up!
11:11:58 <Monty> I found a solution in approximately 18 milliseconds. I found all 60 solutions in about 204 milliseconds.
11:11:58 <benjick> Monty: 6*(75 + 4) + 1
11:11:59 <Monty> ibot (75 + 4)*6 + 1
11:12:01 <Monty> "error" kick in #swig useful camera on your posts for int(): BOOP
11:12:03 <benjick> :E
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11:41:49 <JibberJim> .gc finalise finalize
11:41:52 <phenny> finalise finalize: 67,200
11:42:00 <JibberJim> @googlefight finalise finalize
11:42:01 <supybot> JibberJim: Error: "googlefight" is not a valid command.
11:42:13 <JibberJim> .gc finalise
11:42:15 <phenny> finalise: 4,920,000
11:42:20 <JibberJim> .gc finalize
11:42:23 <phenny> finalize: 36,700,000
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12:32:48 <Monty> hey kpreid
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13:22:57 <Monty> howdy, iratsu__
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14:03:19 <jsled> Damn stingrays will think twice 'bout messin' with us humans again! http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/5338118.stm
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14:11:58 <redmonk> idiots
14:12:04 <redmonk> swhack!
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14:21:25 <sbp> FORLAG
14:29:58 <sbp> huh, news is apparently a little slow in Wiltshire
14:29:59 <sbp> http://www.wiltshiretimes.co.uk/news/latestheadlines/display.var.913422.0.fairy_mysterious.php
14:30:03 <sbp> cool story all the same
14:30:09 <sbp> (via Fortean Times, of course)
14:30:52 <redmonk> bi ho
14:30:57 <redmonk> er, hi ho
14:31:04 * redmonk <-- not bi
14:31:37 <redmonk> does sh allow you to "pop" args?
14:31:43 <sbp> yeah, "shift"
14:31:55 <sbp> pops from the front
14:32:45 <redmonk> or... how do i handle args
14:33:19 <redmonk> i want to say "deploytheme -t -u theme theme theme theme
14:33:37 <redmonk> so i need to handle the args first, then loop over the remaining args
14:33:45 <redmonk> er, hadle the opts
14:34:02 <sbp> check out man optparse
14:34:07 <sbp> for parsing teh args
14:35:12 *** bjoern_h is now known as bjoern_
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14:39:34 <redmonk> k
14:40:14 <redmonk> hm. do not have optparse
14:40:19 <redmonk> what is getopts?
14:40:30 <sbp> er, getopts yes
14:40:36 <sbp> sorry, was confusing self
14:40:41 <redmonk> heh
14:40:50 <sbp> (optparse is the Python module)
14:44:49 <redmonk> ah
14:45:47 <redmonk> ok, thanks. what is the shell equivalent of a while loop?
14:46:09 <jsled> `while <condition>; do; [list]; done
14:46:11 <jsled> `\
14:46:22 <sbp> yeah. and you can use true as the condition
14:46:30 <sbp> and there's no ; between the do and list
14:46:34 <sbp> example:
14:46:36 <sbp> while true
14:46:37 <twe> There's a guy on the list.
14:46:41 <sbp> do read line || break
14:46:42 <sbp> done
14:46:51 <jsled> Or, `sleep`. I've been doing [[[
14:46:55 <jsled> while sleep 1m; do uptime; done
14:46:56 <jsled> ]]]
14:48:19 <sbp> ooh
14:48:24 <jsled> And `read` is pretty useful, too. `tail -f logfile | grep --line-buffered mumble | while read line; do echo $line | im-send.py jsled@jabber.asynchronous.org; done
14:48:33 <sbp> ooh!
14:48:51 <sbp> hadn't thought about putting it in there. d'oh!
14:52:16 * xover wishes that the ability to communicate in a living human language — _any_ living human language — was a requirement for posting to xml-dev...
14:52:47 *** nsh_ is now known as nsh
14:52:54 <jsled> .pc 14
14:52:55 <phenny> 0031: DIGIT ONE (1)
14:52:59 <phenny> 0034: DIGIT FOUR (4)
14:52:59 <jsled> .cp 14
14:53:02 <jsled> (grr)
14:53:02 <phenny> 0014: <control> - DEVICE CONTROL FOUR ()
14:53:04 <bjoern_> why? It's not that xml-dev postings are interesting in any way.
14:53:05 <phenny> 0114: LATIN CAPITAL LETTER E WITH BREVE (Ĕ)
14:53:08 <phenny> 0115: LATIN SMALL LETTER E WITH BREVE (ĕ) [...]
14:53:25 <xover> Exactly.
14:55:51 <MoiraA> hello
14:56:15 <xover> Hello MoiraA. How are you today?
14:56:43 <MoiraA> not too bad thanks
14:56:46 <MoiraA> pleased to be finished work
14:56:53 <MoiraA> have to go out in a second - be back later
15:02:34 <sbp> handy Mac OS X/zsh command line: stat -f '%z %N' **/*(.) | sort -rn
15:02:39 <bjoern_> .gc "Semantic Web flyers"
15:02:42 <phenny> "Semantic Web flyers": 5
15:03:07 <sbp> runs in like a microsecond, too. very fast
15:03:57 <bjoern_> I found the most important command for *sh that you should use before issuing any other command is `exit`.
15:09:32 <sbp> yeah, that gives it roughly the equivalent power of most Microsoft software then
15:09:58 <bjoern_> which is infinite power, given enough time.
15:10:03 <redmonk> hey guys - so, in bash, if i use getopts to parse out the -abc args, is -abc still in $@?
15:10:12 <sbp> a computer linked DIRECTLY TO SPACETIME ITSELF
15:10:33 <redmonk> or do i have to do some sort of getopts "abc" opt pop $@
15:11:12 <lisppaste2> sbp pasted "getopt example" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/25891
15:11:48 <sbp> after the set line, -abc is no longer in $@
15:12:52 <redmonk> whgat is "set --" ?
15:13:58 <sbp> sets the current args
15:14:05 <redmonk> and what is 2>&1 ?
15:14:10 <sbp> -- simply means "the args follow", as with all bash commands
15:14:19 <sbp> so that you can do, e.g., rm -- -f to delete a file called -f
15:14:27 <sbp> that redirects stderr to stdout
15:14:31 * redmonk is still figuring this bash stuff out. can you tell?
15:14:35 <sbp> heheh
15:15:30 <bjoern_> all the important bash commands, other than exit, start with % perl -
15:15:37 <sbp> this may sound like "OMG RTFM!! LOL", but I really recommend reading the bash man page, perhaps even several times. it's huge but there's not really a great deal to learn, and it's a good use of half an hour or so
15:15:44 <kandinski> bjoern_: very good
15:15:54 <redmonk> heh
15:16:04 <kandinski> not necessarily true, mind you
15:16:05 <redmonk> nice, bjoern_
15:16:08 <sbp> yeah, perl -e '`... :-)
15:16:41 <redmonk> sbp: i have been reading a lot of it, but i have not had time to do a proper study
15:17:08 <sbp> the syntax bit and the builtins are the main things
15:17:13 <redmonk> this shell stuff is sort of stuck between Real Work(tm), even though it's saving us a good bnit of time once it works
15:17:22 <twe> Programming / (system/network/website/operations) admin, full time work from the shell.
15:17:29 * darobin read the bash manpage several times, always finds interesting stuff, never remembers any of it$
15:17:35 <sbp> hehe
15:18:10 <darobin> so I normally do what bjoern_ said, works fine
15:18:25 <redmonk> it's funny - bash is annoying and arcane, but i find it easier to remember -- for file system scripting -- than any of the perl/python stuff
15:18:44 <darobin> depends what you're used to I guess
15:18:53 <madewokherd> blame shutil
15:18:55 <darobin> perhaps your brain is simply annoying and arcane?
15:19:10 <redmonk> darobin: that must be it!
15:19:15 <darobin> :)
15:19:16 <madewokherd> none of the file operations are in os
15:19:19 <madewokherd> er
15:19:22 <madewokherd> some of them are
15:19:24 <madewokherd> some are not
15:19:26 <sbp> I don't find bash annoying and arcane at all
15:19:31 <sbp> I think it's an excellent programming language
15:19:51 <kandinski> very light on crazy characters
15:19:56 <kandinski> and very readable
15:20:00 <kandinski> which is important
15:20:38 <sbp> and it's got everything sussed for its environment: pipes, redirecting output, enough looping and other syntax constructs to be useful, builtins such as set and whatnot...
15:20:38 <redmonk> it would be cool if there was a page where you could enter in a script contruct and pick your language and it would tell you what it did.
15:20:43 <redmonk> other than g00gle, that is
15:21:02 <sbp> you want a googleclone? :-)
15:21:10 <redmonk> sbp: what does foo=$(...) do?
15:21:45 <kpreid> $(...) is like `...` but nests properly.
15:21:45 <sbp> $(...) means evaluate ... and return the result as a string
15:21:48 <sbp> yeah
15:21:53 <redmonk> ah
15:22:26 <sbp> incidentally, the error command in that script is not a builtin function
15:22:28 <madewokherd> if you didn't know google puked on things like $(...), how would you search for it?
15:22:42 <sbp> or even if you did
15:23:28 <bjoern_> % grep
15:23:57 <redmonk> oh, sbp: getopts is a replacement for getopt - and it's builtin
15:24:20 <redmonk> (getopts is deprecated, no more need to call out to a separate process)
15:24:20 <madewokherd> so really what we want is wiktionary for programming languages?
15:24:32 <madewokherd> or onelook
15:24:56 <redmonk> more like a parser tied to either docs or a wiktionary kinda thing
15:25:24 <sbp> IIRC it does some annoying thing
15:25:41 <sbp> I recently ported that script to FreeBSD and ran into the getopt vs. getopts thing
15:26:12 <redmonk> this works in cygwin:
15:26:22 <madewokherd> or even just wiktionary for computers
15:26:32 <madewokherd> because you'd have to include all the standard unix commands
15:27:57 <redmonk> libby: pastebin?
15:28:08 <madewokherd> but most languages have good indexes, you'd want to use that
15:28:21 <redmonk> http://paste.lisp.org/display/25895
15:28:39 <libby> eh?
15:28:50 <redmonk> sorry, nm
15:29:05 <redmonk> (braincloud)
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15:33:10 * bjoern_ receives mail, calling him Bl\x{F8}rn H\x{F8}hrmann and asking a Mac/Safari question
15:33:16 <bjoern_> I never touched anything "Apple".
15:34:04 <kpreid> Blørn Høhrmann, eh?
15:34:22 <madewokherd> \x{F8} ?
15:34:22 <redmonk> bjoern_: what's your point
15:34:38 <kpreid> "They're all just weird o's, aren't they?"
15:34:48 <bjoern_> I'm wondering whether and if what I should respond.
15:35:13 <sbp> feel free to forward to me, and I'll answer as your secretary
15:35:25 * sbp has done that for AaronSw a couple of times
15:35:40 <redmonk> heh
15:36:31 <kpreid> .ety secretary
15:36:34 <phenny> "1387, 'person entrusted with secrets,' from M.L. secretarius 'clerk, notary, confidential officer, confidant,' from L. secretum 'a secret' (see secret)." - http://etymonline.com/?term=secretary
15:37:17 <bjoern_> it's from .dk, I could impress her with my danish sk1llz saying "Jeg hedder Bj\x{F6}rn", which covers about the full extend of my danish skills.
15:37:23 <bjoern_> s/d/t/
15:37:34 <sbp> it's a she?! send it to Morbus!
15:37:38 <sbp> let the wooing commence!
15:37:44 <redmonk> heh
15:39:37 <bjoern_> ooh wait, I actually used Safari once
15:39:58 <sbp> likewise... once is enough
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15:40:30 <bjoern_> I ran the Nokia S60 web browser through their emulator, on an emulated WinXP, for a few minutes.
15:40:42 <bjoern_> #webapi has the record of my experience.
15:58:53 <bjoern_> .calc a year times 4 km/h over 16 hours per day
15:58:55 <phenny> ((1 year) times (4 km/h)) over (16 (hours per day)) = 52 594.8766 kilometers
15:59:25 <bjoern_> .calc a month times 4 km/h over 16 hours per day
15:59:28 <phenny> ((1 month) times (4 km/h)) over (16 (hours per day)) = 4 382.90639 kilometers
16:01:11 *** mzeltner (n=mzeltner@91.64.157.91) has joined #swhack
16:02:41 <bjoern_> "... but rather comes from "Planet Lila", the name of the discovery web page URL, which was named after Michael E. Brown's newborn daughter, Lilah."
16:02:47 <bjoern_> I knew it! URLs can have names!
16:05:24 <mzeltner> <#> rdfs:label "" . ?
16:05:42 * Arnia waves to mzeltner
16:05:57 <mzeltner> Hey Joe
16:06:18 <Arnia> Hows things?
16:07:48 *** xs has parted #swhack ("Leaving")
16:08:08 <mzeltner> Hm
16:08:10 <mzeltner> I'm not sure
16:08:30 <Arnia> Oh?
16:08:47 <mzeltner> Annoyed with myself, and a couple of other people.
16:09:27 <Arnia> Ah... oh well :)
16:12:08 <mzeltner> What are you doing these days?
16:12:39 <Arnia> Mostly screaming at cocoa bindings
16:16:18 *** farh0rizon has quit ("Leaving.")
16:16:27 <mzeltner> Watcha doing with Cocoa?
16:17:55 *** darobin changed the topic to: "2006-09-12 || BREAKING NEWS: SEAN'S STANDARDS SUBTERFUGE! || It be soon: http://www.yarr.org.uk/"
16:18:21 <Arnia> Writing a tool to organise some data sets I'm working with
16:18:33 <Arnia> And you know how much I love coding...
16:19:05 <bjoern_> tell us anyway!
16:20:42 * Arnia explains
16:21:48 <Arnia> So what do you think?
16:21:57 <bjoern_> You totally love coding.
16:22:52 * Arnia nukes bjoern_
16:23:37 * mzeltner nukes Berlin
16:23:52 <mzeltner> It was good that I came here, but it's shit being here.
16:25:56 <Arnia> :/
16:27:59 <bjoern_> ... ja da kannste was erleben in Berlin in Berlin in Berlin ... *sing*
16:28:37 *** aeonite (n=aeonite@peterbilt.muppetlab.net) has joined #swhack
16:29:00 * Arnia buries bjoern_ in some tar sands he's found
16:29:40 <mzeltner> Wien, Wien, nur du aaaalleeeein, sollst stets die Stadt, meiner Träume seeeeiiiin *sing* :P
16:29:42 <bjoern_> Good to know there is enough left of me after the nuke to bury...
16:32:38 <Arnia> mzeltner: all the time? Must get in the way of doing anything :p
16:33:11 <mzeltner> Hehe
16:33:25 * Arnia wonders if Austrian artists dream of electric Vienna
16:34:38 <mzeltner> Electric?
16:35:10 <Arnia> Large electrostatic build-up. Terrible for CMOS devices.
16:36:16 <mzeltner> Too tired to get it
16:36:34 <Arnia> Never mind :)
16:36:39 * Arnia gives mzeltner a hug
16:37:17 <mzeltner> Thanks
16:40:38 <Arnia> hm. I need to go biscuit shopping
16:55:41 <kandinski> hi mzeltner
16:55:48 <kandinski> YASH!
16:55:55 <kandinski> Yet Another Skinny Haker
16:55:57 <kandinski> how are you?
16:56:04 <kandinski> also Hacker
16:56:53 <mzeltner> Frustrated, but that has positive side effects. Hope you're better?
16:59:23 *** perigrin has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep")
16:59:55 <Arnia> Right. Drag and Drop works
16:59:56 <Arnia> whee
17:00:56 *** aeonite has quit ("Leaving")
17:01:44 <sbp> LOLHI
17:02:18 <mzeltner> OMG SBP
17:02:32 <sbp> OMG HI
17:02:40 <mzeltner> RU SIUPER BRITISCH PETROL?!1!
17:03:57 <mzeltner> http://etsy.com/view_item.php?listing_id=301202
17:06:22 <sbp> what
17:06:22 <sbp> no
17:07:05 <sbp> $20? you're kidding
17:09:54 <mzeltner> It would've been cooler if somebody grandpa did that
17:10:01 <sbp> .gc Eleonore
17:10:03 <phenny> Eleonore: 1,980,000
17:10:04 <sbp> heh, yeah
17:10:51 <xororand> haha
17:10:57 <xororand> phenny: tell phenny to slap phenny
17:10:59 <phenny> Hey, I'm not as stupid as Monty you know!
17:11:00 <Monty> YASH!
17:11:02 <xororand> :D
17:14:13 <kandinski> mzeltner: I am manic, with its negative side effects. We should team up.
17:18:26 <mzeltner> :)
17:19:14 *** iratsu__ (n=iratsu@wireless181216.Wireless.McGill.CA) has joined #swhack
17:20:12 <clsn> Aw... SVG doesn't have a z-index -like attribute. That's a pain.
17:26:26 *** Gromgull (n=ggrimnes@p54A6A08A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #swhack
17:26:26 <Monty> Speak of the devil, it's Gromgull!
17:26:35 <Arnia> mmm... mania
17:27:26 <darobin> clsn: yup, you have to move stuff around in the rendering tree
17:27:34 *** darobin has quit (Remote closed the connection)
17:27:44 <redmonk> anyone here know a decent, simple flowcharting app for windows? and if anyone says "gimp" i'm going to beat them
17:28:21 <Arnia> g...
17:28:23 <Arnia> ...ah
17:28:37 <Arnia> Although you may have some luck with Inkscape with its new diagram connector tools
17:36:13 *** perigrin (n=perigrin@c-69-180-170-86.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) has joined #swhack
17:38:04 *** pixel has quit ()
17:39:13 <sbp> interesting: "For example, it is sometimes remarked that William Shakespeare and Miguel de Cervantes died on the same /date/, 23 April 1616, but not on the same /day/. England was still using Old Style dating in 1616, while Spain was using New Style. Cervantes actually died ten days before Shakespeare." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Style_and_New_Style_dates
17:39:49 <bjoern_> OMG 23
17:40:17 <bjoern_> 23 = 16+6+1
17:51:01 <nsh> ANTICHRIST!!"£!£!
17:52:25 <bjoern_> bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha!@!@!@!
17:52:31 <clsn> (holy smoke, I'm making progress in my blazonry-rendering-in-SVG software. Who'd have thought)
17:52:32 <bjoern_> Next on #swhack: Immanentize the eschaton
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17:54:56 <Monty> hi bunnywabbit_
17:55:31 <bjoern_> countdown
17:55:31 <Monty> One large one and five small numbers: 25, 3, 5, 9, 10, 3. Your target is 952. You have thirty seconds, tick, tock, tick, tock...
17:55:47 <bjoern_> calc 3*10*25
17:55:47 <Monty> bjoern_: 750
17:55:54 <bjoern_> calc 3*10*(25 + 9)
17:55:54 <Monty> bjoern_: 1020
17:56:01 <Monty> Duh dum, duh dum, duh-da-da-dum! Your 30 seconds are up!
17:56:03 <Monty> Oh bugger, I don't think I can solve that one!
17:56:06 <bjoern_> countdown
17:56:06 <Monty> One large one and five small numbers: 25, 4, 9, 3, 2, 4. Your target is 202. You have thirty seconds, tick, tock, tick, tock...
17:56:36 <Monty> Duh dum, duh dum, duh-da-da-dum! Your 30 seconds are up!
17:56:38 <Monty> I found a solution in approximately 10 milliseconds. I found all 208 solutions in about 204 milliseconds.
17:56:39 <bjoern_> calc 9*25 - 4*4
17:56:39 <Monty> ibot (25 - 3)*9 + 4
17:56:41 <Monty> bjoern_: 209
17:56:52 <bjoern_> countdown
17:56:52 <Monty> One large one and five small numbers: 75, 10, 1, 2, 7, 3. Your target is 891. You have thirty seconds, tick, tock, tick, tock...
17:57:06 <bjoern_> calc (10+2)*(75-1)
17:57:06 <Monty> bjoern_: 888
17:57:09 <bjoern_> calc (10+2)*(75-1) + 3
17:57:09 <Monty> bjoern_: 891
17:57:22 <Monty> Duh dum, duh dum, duh-da-da-dum! Your 30 seconds are up!
17:57:24 <Monty> I found a solution in approximately 45 milliseconds. I found all 38 solutions in about 205 milliseconds.
17:57:25 <Monty> ibot (2*7 + 75)*10 + 1
17:58:46 <clsn> sbp: how do I check if an attribute exists, e.g. if not self.foo: self.foo="bar" ? In Python? This is one of those no-brainer things.
17:59:59 <Gromgull> hasattr
18:00:01 <Gromgull> clsn...
18:00:12 <Gromgull> hasattr(obj, name)
18:00:37 <mzeltner> Best practice is to avoid such checks though (or did I get that one wrong)
18:00:47 <clsn> Thanks...
18:01:51 <Gromgull> why?
18:08:07 <mzeltner> I don't know, I forgot - maybe I'm confusing this with some Zope stuff
18:08:18 <mzeltner> s/Zope/Zope specific/
18:11:23 *** giovannit has quit ()
18:33:04 <bancus> @spell personnel
18:33:05 <supybot> bancus: No spelling suggestion made. This could mean that the word you gave is spelled right; it could also mean that its spelling was too whacked out even for Google to figure out.
18:34:15 <mzeltner> Dear god
18:34:25 <mzeltner> iTunes is always the first interface thingy they change ...
18:34:57 <bjoern_> countdown
18:34:57 <Monty> One large one and five small numbers: 75, 6, 5, 2, 9, 1. Your target is 673. You have thirty seconds, tick, tock, tick, tock...
18:35:06 <bjoern_> calc 9*75
18:35:06 <Monty> bjoern_: 675
18:35:08 <bjoern_> calc 9*75 - 2
18:35:08 <Monty> bjoern_: 673
18:35:14 <bjoern_> @echo good night, bjoern_
18:35:15 <supybot> good night, bjoern_
18:35:27 <Monty> Duh dum, duh dum, duh-da-da-dum! Your 30 seconds are up!
18:35:28 <Monty> I found a solution in approximately 10 milliseconds. I found all 256 solutions in about 214 milliseconds.
18:35:30 <Monty> ibot 75*9 - 2
18:35:52 <bancus> Grammar question!
18:36:10 <thelsdj> Grammer answer!
18:36:30 <bancus> When I was in school, I was tought that plurals (actually, I think anything ending in "s") was made possesive by adding an apostraphe after the final s.
18:36:48 <bancus> Ex: Users' items.
18:37:12 <bancus> I've seen a number of instances recently where it would be written as Users's items.
18:37:23 <bancus> Which baffles me and makes me wonder if I'm on crack or everyone else is.
18:37:32 <bjoern_> .compare "genitive case" "possessive case"
18:37:36 <phenny> "genitive case" (199,000), "possessive case" (169,000)
18:37:53 <kpreid> bancus: I find "Users'" better.
18:38:11 <bancus> But is it correct?
18:38:43 <kpreid> According to whom?
18:38:53 <bancus> Indeed, I note some people pronounce the s' as s's, which I also always found baffling.
18:38:58 <bancus> The highest available authority?
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18:41:16 <Gromgull> <picky>you were *taught* in school</picky> :)
18:41:29 <bancus> Whoops.
18:41:32 <bancus> Typo.
18:41:55 <bancus> (A and O are right next to each other on a Dvorak layout.)
18:42:21 <Gromgull> we'll forgive you this time :)
18:43:31 *** tonybaloney|work (n=arussell@hdws04.oit.umass.edu) has joined #swhack
18:43:46 <tonybaloney|work> good afternoon
18:44:37 <mzeltner> Holy crap, I hope Ubuntu gets properly usable soon.
18:44:50 <bancus> It's not now?
18:44:56 <mzeltner> Not for me
18:45:24 <mzeltner> But the new iTunes Interface ...
18:45:29 <mzeltner> This is like Comic Sans MS
18:46:32 <thelsdj> its been usable for me for a while
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19:05:34 <Arnia> hmm... my junk folder is 666 big
19:05:42 <Arnia> Do I want to find out what the 666th item is?
19:06:04 <Arnia> mzeltner: New iTunes interface?
19:06:38 <mzeltner> Sec
19:07:34 * Arnia feels full
19:07:40 <Arnia> Just ate a lot of food
19:08:27 <mzeltner> http://www.mactechnews.de/itsshowtime2006/images/15.jpg
19:08:34 <mzeltner> Note the scrollbar colour
19:18:21 <sbp> Gromgull: you missed "were" and "apostrophe"! :-)
19:18:23 <Arnia> Hmm
19:18:29 <Arnia> Strange
19:18:39 <Arnia> But it is a very small picture
19:19:50 *** sindex has quit ("Leaving")
19:22:58 <Gromgull> hmm... is there soemthing in python like getResource in java... can i look for other files in sys.path?
19:23:06 <Gromgull> i suppose i could ask in #python
19:47:21 <sbp> c2.com uses thread mode so much that it's basically just a bulletin board
19:47:48 <sbp> just happens to have a lot of good contributors
19:48:02 <sbp> (possibly because of the draw of the technology, actually)
19:48:14 <nsh> .ety parameter
19:48:17 <phenny> "1656, from Mod.L. parameter (1631), from Gk. para- 'beside, subsidiary' + metron 'measure' (see meter (2))." - http://etymonline.com/?term=parameter
19:48:35 <nsh> .ety paramount
19:48:39 <phenny> "1531, from Anglo-Fr. paramont 'above' (in place, order, degree), 1339, from O.Fr. par 'by' + amont 'up,' from a mont 'upward.' The whole from L. per ad montem, lit. 'to the hill.'" - http://etymonline.com/?term=paramount
19:49:13 * nsh lets that one slip
19:56:40 *** dmiles (i=dmiles@24-113-145-203.wavecable.com) has joined #swhack
19:57:19 <sbp> "Mmm, now there's an idea: adding syntax coloring to ed... Perhaps we could also build a Lisp interpreter into it?" - http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?EdIsTheStandardTextEditor
19:58:30 <jsled> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root 5.89824e37 Oct 22 1990 /usr/bin/emacs
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19:59:48 <dmiles> sbp, well i am expanding the Swoop ontology editor to as an eclipse plugin.. using bscripting framewk
20:00:23 <dmiles> oh buyt twher ei was going it does prolog/lisp/perl/doomscript/rdf/owl/sparql/emf/uml2/xsd/CycL
20:00:41 <dmiles> it has a list of over 20 languages currently implmented in it
20:01:15 <dmiles> ruby/tcl/python/vbscript/jscript/java
20:01:51 <dmiles> netrexx/groovy/ObjectScript/
20:03:15 <dmiles> oh ecore/xslt but the point is the unified property/method/instances/classes that give you a right click and then each property has its own subeditor
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20:09:24 *** lisppaste2 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:12:47 <sbp> phenny: ask bjoern_ what the best compression software he found was again? I've got some logs that I really want to compactify the crap out of, and bzip2 just isn't doing a good enough job
20:12:49 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when bjoern_ is around.
20:13:02 <bancus> @spell gage
20:13:03 <supybot> bancus: No spelling suggestion made. This could mean that the word you gave is spelled right; it could also mean that its spelling was too whacked out even for Google to figure out.
20:13:07 <bancus> @spell gauge
20:13:08 <supybot> bancus: No spelling suggestion made. This could mean that the word you gave is spelled right; it could also mean that its spelling was too whacked out even for Google to figure out.
20:13:13 <bancus> .wn gage
20:13:16 <phenny> gage 1. street names for marijuana
20:13:17 <sbp> @spell gaggy
20:13:19 <phenny> gage 2. a measuring instrument for measuring and indicating a quantity such as the thickness of wire or the amount of rain etc.
20:13:23 <phenny> gage 3. place a bet on [...]
20:13:24 <supybot> sbp: No spelling suggestion made. This could mean that the word you gave is spelled right; it could also mean that its spelling was too whacked out even for Google to figure out.
20:13:29 <sbp> .w gaggy
20:13:32 <bancus> .wn gauge
20:13:35 <phenny> I couldn't find 'gaggy' in WordNet.
20:13:35 <phenny> gauge 1. a measuring instrument for measuring and indicating a quantity such as the thickness of wire or the amount of rain etc.
20:13:39 <phenny> gauge 2. accepted or approved instance or example of a quantity or quality against which others are judged or measured or compared
20:13:42 <phenny> gauge 3. the distance between the rails of a railway or between the wheels of a train [...]
20:13:52 <bancus> Goddamnit.
20:13:56 <bancus> .ety gauge
20:13:57 <sbp> gage is an alternative spelling for gauge(1)?!
20:13:58 <twe> Or can you just need firefly to be easily recognizable from a distance.
20:13:59 <phenny> "1440, from Anglo-Fr. gauge (1357), from O.N.Fr. gauger, from gauge 'gauging rod,' perhaps from Frank. *galgo 'rod, pole for measuring' (cf. O.N. gelgja 'pole, perch,' O.H.G. galgo, Eng. gallows)." - http://etymonline.com/?term=gauge
20:14:13 <bancus> .ety gage
20:14:16 <phenny> Can't find the etymology for "gage". Try http://etymonline.com/?search=gage
20:14:31 <bancus> I'll use gauge.
20:14:32 *** lisppaste2 (n=lisppast@common-lisp.net) has joined #swhack
20:14:32 <Monty> Thank goodness, lisppaste2 is back!
20:14:35 <phenny> Be quiet, Monty.
20:14:35 <Monty> Please go on.
20:14:46 <sbp> .compare gage gauge
20:14:47 <nsh> Thanks goodness, Monty can't breed!
20:14:49 <phenny> gauge (106,000,000), gage (97,800,000)
20:14:49 <Monty> as votive offerings in Web flyers": 5 quid or svg?
20:14:55 <nsh> mmmm
20:14:58 <sbp> gauge was, I thought, the standard spelling
20:15:05 <nsh> difficult decision, 5 quid or svg
20:15:13 <sbp> nsh: £5 or SVG?
20:15:47 <nsh> yeah
20:15:57 <bancus> If you get the 5 quid, you don't get SVG?
20:16:02 <bancus> Ever?
20:16:02 <nsh> i'm thinking £5, but that might be because i'm on subsistence living
20:16:15 <nsh> Nevar!
20:16:22 <bancus> Hm.
20:16:23 <clsn> I've been pounding my head against SVG much of today.
20:16:35 <bancus> I dunno, my future usage of SVG would be worth a bit more than that to me.
20:16:48 <nsh> unless its made redundant in the near future..
20:16:51 <nsh> *it's
20:18:31 <nsh> :-/
20:20:00 <nsh> framemaker!
20:20:23 * nsh swears he used that in school like 15 years ago
20:20:46 <nsh> had a little stylus icon, i think
20:20:50 <nsh> but that might have been another program
20:21:13 <clsn> nsh: you probably did. It was popular at least that long ago.
20:21:21 * nsh nods
20:21:23 <sbp> burrrrrn
20:24:50 <bancus> It's still fairly popular now, AFAIK.
20:24:59 <sbp> .rate framemaker
20:25:02 <bancus> It was recommended to me by a guy who writes technical documentation at Toshiba.
20:25:06 <phenny> "framemaker": 55.56% (9 rocks; 31 rules; 32 sucks; 0 blows)
20:25:21 <bancus> .rate vim
20:25:24 <bancus> .rate emacs
20:25:29 <phenny> "vim": 86.07% (1,870 rocks; 873 rules; 398 sucks; 46 blows)
20:25:32 <phenny> "emacs": 60.26% (559 rocks; 3,140 rules; 2,320 sucks; 119 blows)
20:25:34 <sbp> .rate vi
20:25:36 <bancus> Hm.
20:25:37 <sbp> .rate ed
20:25:41 <bancus> I'd expect more vim rules.
20:25:42 <phenny> "vi": 92.63% (1,470 rocks; 25,200 rules; 2,020 sucks; 103 blows)
20:25:44 <phenny> "ed": 96.03% (10,500 rocks; 188,000 rules; 7,110 sucks; 1,090 blows)
20:25:46 <bancus> Simply from debian usage.
20:25:54 <sbp> muahaha, ed wins
20:25:59 <bancus> (The main makefile for a Debian package is called rules.)
20:26:13 <bancus> so you get to type "vim rules" or "emacs rules" etc
20:26:22 <sbp> perhaps people type vi rules
20:26:26 <bancus> perhaps
20:26:28 <sbp> for which there are a lot of results
20:26:35 <bancus> much more for ed though
20:26:40 * sbp aliased vi to gvim because he's weird
20:26:43 <bancus> of course, ed is also a guy's name
20:26:48 <bancus> half of those could be "mister ed rules"
20:26:48 <sbp> yeah
20:26:53 <sbp> heheh
20:27:02 <bancus> .gc "mister ed rules"
20:27:05 <phenny> "mister ed rules": 7
20:27:07 <bancus> or not
20:27:09 <bancus> heh
20:27:15 <sbp> a little under half
20:37:26 <bancus> "Pulsar Aviation can only provide this service for work which the Repair Station is rated."
20:37:40 <bancus> The end seems a little odd, but I can't figure out how to reword it.
20:37:59 <bancus> (It'll probably get the axe anyway once I pass it upstairs, since we aren't a repair station.)
20:38:05 <sbp> what are you trying to say?
20:38:51 <clsn> sbp: *is* there any way to make a constant in Python, a value that can't be changed?
20:38:55 <bancus> That Pulsar Aviation can only provide the above stated service (repairs outside of our facility) for work for which we have an approval.
