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01:41:38 <Morbus> phenny, fun feature in OS X : in any spelling aware app, type a few letters, then hit escape. this works in xchat.
01:43:20 <Morbus> wtf. retard.
01:43:25 <Morbus> phenny, tell sbp fun feature in OS X : in any spelling aware app, type a few letters, then hit escape. this works in xchat.
01:43:27 <phenny> Morbus: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
01:47:54 <Morbus> hrm. is it Message-Id or Message-Id.
01:47:56 <Morbus> hrm. is it Message-Id or Message-ID
01:48:33 <Morbus> looks like Message-ID
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01:56:26 <KragenSitaker> lech walesa quit solidarity: http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Lech_Walesa_quits_Solidarity
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01:59:22 <Monty> yo est!
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02:24:24 <est> Monty: tock of the day
02:24:25 <Monty> erm!
02:24:51 <BigJibby> herm!
02:25:29 * est start big jibbin
02:25:54 * BigJibby starts est'ing
02:26:11 <est> :o
02:28:13 <BigJibby> phenny, "rss 1.1 est twe"?
02:28:22 <twe> But what does est have to tell monty to twe the monty monkey twe.
02:28:26 <Monty> After all, tenth eye-popping foam moves outrageous crumpled Takashi Tezuka >:)
02:29:22 <BigJibby> est, have you been twe'ing the monty monkey twe again?
02:29:22 <Monty> feck
02:29:32 <twe> When you have to learn to read python here ... Think of it again?
02:31:31 <BigJibby> twe, I can't read python. Am I still allowed to stick around?
02:31:48 <twe> BigJibby: (Read in the business probably makes this more possible than a decade and always looked down upon 'scripting' languages like python to me.
02:34:28 <BigJibby> .cp mu
02:34:31 <phenny> 00D7: MULTIPLICATION SIGN (×)
02:34:34 <phenny> 039C: GREEK CAPITAL LETTER MU (Μ)
02:34:37 <phenny> 03BC: GREEK SMALL LETTER MU (μ) [...]
02:34:57 <BigJibby> .cp trade mark
02:34:59 <phenny> 00AE: REGISTERED SIGN (®)
02:35:03 <phenny> 2122: TRADE MARK SIGN (™)
02:40:54 *** BigJibby changed the topic to: "What are some interesting places on the planet Uranus? | Well there's Billy's Ur Bar, the Anus Dive, Ranu Park... and the ever so beautiful Perineum Canal"
02:42:12 <est> BigJibby: oh nono..i been good
02:43:55 <bancus> We renamed Uranus back in the 27th century to end that stupid joke once and for all.
02:48:40 <est> actually, we un-renamed it..back to Herschell
02:54:34 <KragenSitaker> .g uranus fissure
02:54:37 <phenny> KragenSitaker: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061006073336AA2xHep
02:55:05 <est> KragenSitaker: yer gettin me all aroused agin
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03:02:56 <est> "Instead of trying to find something big enough to shove into the fissure on Uranus why don't we use the gasses in useful applications?
03:03:04 <est> +"
03:04:15 <BigJibby> I bet Uranus would be a really fun place
03:05:43 <est> cold though
03:06:20 <BigJibby> I'd wear a coat
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03:11:10 <KragenSitaker> calm down est
03:15:22 <est> KragenSitaker: too late now
03:15:38 <est> KragenSitaker: you still in Caracas?
03:15:41 * est checks flights
03:15:42 <KragenSitaker> fortunately i am safely on another continent :)
03:15:45 <KragenSitaker> no, buenos aires now
03:15:55 <est> no problem
03:16:01 <KragenSitaker> here, get excited about this instead: http://flickr.com/photos/ladyada/303725537/in/photostream/
03:16:03 <est> that's pretty cool
03:16:21 <est> ive heard Argentina has esp. beautiful people
03:16:39 <KragenSitaker> yeah, they're lovely
03:16:49 <KragenSitaker> did you look through the pillow fight photos?
03:21:15 <est> KragenSitaker: no..where?
03:21:34 <est> KragenSitaker: nice ladyada pic
03:22:29 <est> def gotta look her up in nyc
03:25:58 <KragenSitaker> she's probably got hundreds of drooling geeks looking her up every week
03:26:09 <KragenSitaker> maybe you could offer her funding or something
03:26:17 <KragenSitaker> something to stand out from the crowd
03:26:27 <KragenSitaker> i'm assuming you wouldn't drool either, but she might not notice that at first
03:27:19 <est> good points
03:27:26 <KragenSitaker> or play music
03:27:43 <KragenSitaker> or, i don't know, fabricate some electronics
03:28:02 <est> or have some interesting software
03:28:26 <est> whatever..if i cant get her attention, i probably dont need to talk to her :)
03:28:33 <est> i need to check her latest stuff
03:28:57 <est> the monome has def dampened my hardware needs a bit
03:29:16 <patbam> HELO
03:29:38 <patbam> oops.
03:29:43 <patbam> HELO #swhack
03:29:54 <patbam> this thing is broken.
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03:31:37 <Monty> howdy, jcowan
03:33:19 <patbam> KragenSitaker: are you going to go to brazil?
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03:35:11 <KragenSitaker> patbam: think so
03:35:15 <KragenSitaker> why?
03:36:38 <jcowan> Why Brazil?
03:37:22 <KragenSitaker> it's only a couple of countries away?
03:37:46 <KragenSitaker> i mean, technically it borders argentina, but it's faster to go there through uruguay than to go around uruguay
03:37:47 <est> ..and it's fascinating
03:37:58 <est> ..and more beautiful people
03:38:20 <patbam> i just like brazil.
03:38:30 <est> KragenSitaker is Our Man in South America
03:38:43 <patbam> but i hold a grudge against argentina, because i forgot my passport and they wouldn't let me in.
03:38:45 <patbam> the nerve.
03:38:49 <KragenSitaker> ha
03:38:52 <KragenSitaker> what did you do?
03:39:16 <est> he became a stateless person!
03:39:19 <est> purely functional
03:39:36 * est made a funny
03:40:04 <patbam> paraguay let me in.
03:40:05 <perigrin> ironically it was a side effect of his being denied entry
03:40:07 <patbam> they were a little more lax.
03:41:18 <KragenSitaker> ha
03:41:31 <KragenSitaker> how was paraguay? what year was it?
03:41:40 <patbam> er, i was in college, it was a long time ago
03:41:48 <patbam> i just went to ciudad del este
03:42:05 <patbam> and wandered around until i heard someone speak guarani, and then i felt like my mission was accomplished
03:42:43 <est> guarani?
03:43:06 <patbam> .wik Guarani language
03:43:09 <phenny> "Guaraní /gwaraˈni/ (local name: avañe'ẽ [aʋaɲẽˈʔẽ]) is an indigenous language of South America that belongs to the Tupí-Guaraní subfamily." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guarani_language
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03:44:23 <est> aha
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03:44:36 <est> fueld by guarana!
03:44:36 <est> +e
03:45:05 <KragenSitaker> ha
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03:47:45 <lemonodor_> monome?
03:48:05 <est> monome.org
03:48:18 <est> i have 3 :o
03:48:52 <jcowan> Most people in Paraguay are bilinguals.
03:49:07 <est> woah! two tongues??
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03:50:28 <patbam> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOIM1_xOSro informative re: bilingualism
03:50:43 <jcowan> Spanish and Guaraní, est.
03:51:11 <est> i was being silly
03:51:40 <jcowan> Oh, tongues as in organs.
03:52:53 <est> as in ambiguous :)
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03:53:14 <jcowan> Yeah.
03:53:25 * jcowan forces est to speak only Lojban.
03:57:36 <patbam> jcowan: i remember talking to a guy there and asking him how to say "how are you" in guaraní. he said "¿como estás?" and i said, yeah but in guaraní, and he said "it's the same."
03:57:47 <patbam> nutty.
03:58:09 <jcowan> Not necessary. The languages are deeply intertwingled.
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03:59:44 <patbam> eventually he got around to saying "mae te'i"... er... i think...
04:00:25 *** jsled changed the topic to: "<est> he became a stateless person! <est> purely functional * est made a funny"
04:04:29 <jcowan> "How are you" in many languages says it's "Mba'éichapa?", and gives lots of other versions.
04:04:50 <patbam> yeah. i must remember incorrectly. i was just looking too
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06:02:32 <est_> hmm..the only car cnsumer reports gives tops in both safety and reliability is the acura rl
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06:02:51 <est> wrong channel :)
06:03:00 <est> scuse
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06:25:35 <est> blorple is good
06:32:39 <patbam> argh, sorry
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07:08:26 <Monty> Speak of the devil, it's madewokherd!
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07:32:43 <Monty> howdy, Kriegel
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13:24:09 <sbp> okay, it's mass mailing time, phenny style
13:24:12 <sbp> phenny: tell jcowan http://xkcd.com/c191.html
13:24:15 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when jcowan is around.
13:24:16 <sbp> phenny: tell clsn http://xkcd.com/c191.html
13:24:18 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when clsn is around.
13:24:19 <sbp> phenny: tell bancus http://xkcd.com/c191.html
13:24:22 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when bancus is around.
13:24:24 <sbp> phenny: tell kpreid http://xkcd.com/c191.html
13:24:26 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when kpreid is around.
13:24:28 <sbp> phenny: tell kandinski http://xkcd.com/c191.html
13:24:30 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when kandinski is around.
13:24:32 <sbp> phenny: tell d8uv http://xkcd.com/c191.html
13:24:34 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when d8uv is around.
13:24:53 <sbp> damn, my phennystylin' is shit hot
13:24:59 <kpreid> ha!
13:25:01 <phenny> kpreid: 13:24Z <sbp> tell kpreid http://xkcd.com/c191.html
13:25:13 <sbp> ...
13:25:20 <sbp> man, I didn't need to send it to bancus
13:25:29 <sbp> I just read the alt text on the flip side image!
13:25:32 <xover> Spammer!
13:25:39 <sbp> "Translated text by bancus of #lojban"
13:25:47 <kpreid> ...flip side?
13:25:58 <sbp> .eval list(phenny.reminders['lojban'].pop())
13:26:01 <phenny> KeyError: 'lojban' (file "/home/sbp/phenny/modules/admin.py", line 63, in f_eval)
13:26:07 <sbp> argh, the brane
13:26:11 <sbp> .eval list(phenny.reminders['bancus'].pop())
13:26:13 <phenny> ['sbp', 'tell', '01 Dec 13:24Z', 'http://xkcd.com/c191.html']
13:26:18 <sbp> kpreid: yeah, click the comic
13:26:27 <sbp> you totally go from obverse to reverse
13:26:35 <sbp> from verso to recto
13:26:40 <sbp> from mouth end to ass end
13:26:44 <kpreid> .ua
13:26:58 <sbp> unask?
13:27:12 <sbp> would be kinda handy
13:27:33 <sbp> phenny: tell bancus You Know Already
13:27:34 <kpreid> can be best transcribed as "Aha"
13:27:35 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when bancus is around.
13:27:42 <sbp> oho
13:27:58 <sbp> what's "and its older cozen oho", then?
13:28:36 <kpreid> Ask a Loglan guy for the older stuff. :-)
13:29:32 <kpreid> hrmf. the second guy's remark needs a po'o or something
13:29:44 <jsled> heh.
13:29:48 <kpreid> it doesn't really have the tone of the English
13:30:34 <sbp> [[[
13:30:38 <sbp> 1 December. The sale started in 1834 of the library of Richard Heber, the most outstanding bibliomaniac of his time, and rare among his breed in that he was a scholar who actually read a good portion of his collection.
13:30:42 *** libby has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
13:30:47 <sbp> Like Shakespeare's, his will made no mention of any books. He bought and rented many houses to hold his collection; at his death in 1833, two houses in London were found to be stuffed with books, with others in Cheshire, Paris, Brussels, Antwerp, Ghent and Germany. Perhaps there were more. The catalogue of some of his purchases was over 1,000 pages long. The sale lasted 202 days spread over two years.
13:30:53 <sbp> ]]] - http://www.forteantimes.com/
13:30:54 <twe> There was a long time ago.
13:32:53 <kpreid> (but that's the only nit I can pick and hey, lojban publicity!, so I'll shut up now)
13:33:06 <sbp> you are so one of those people
13:33:52 <kpreid> .ie
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13:34:18 <sbp> I guess the cartoon is doubly ironic for me, hating lojban but having many lojban-liking/speaking/defining friends
13:34:21 <kpreid> (it's pronounced "yeh" without the "h", and the meaning is like that)
13:34:31 <sbp> ah, like in Welsh
13:35:58 <sbp> this is neat: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/180_degree_rule
13:36:08 <sbp> "The 180° rule is a basic film editing guideline that states that two characters (or other elements) in the same scene should always have the same left/right relationship to each other."
13:36:14 <sbp> I like the (SVG) diagram
13:36:26 <sbp> it's almost a diagrasm
13:38:05 <darobin> hey I didn't know that WP did SVG, that's sweet
13:38:10 <sbp> 1337!
13:38:17 <sbp> .t
13:38:20 <phenny> Fri Dec 1 13:37:59 GMT 2006
13:38:24 <sbp> ooh
13:38:35 <sbp> either my clock is off, or bia's
13:38:37 * sbp tests
13:39:02 <sbp> hmph, my time
13:39:10 <sbp> $ showtime
13:39:10 <sbp> Tycho: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 13:38:34 GMT
13:39:10 <sbp> Local: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 13:38:09 GMT
13:39:12 <sbp> irritating
13:40:38 <sbp> tsk, I restarted ntp and it still didn't fix it
13:40:41 * sbp kicks ntpd
13:41:25 * darobin first read that as "my cock is off", which caused worry
13:41:31 <sbp> okay, there we go
13:41:32 <sbp> heh
13:41:52 <sbp> hopefully bia's if that were the case
13:42:06 <int-e> oh wait. you're after those 20 seconds.
13:42:09 <mumbles> heheeh.. my next door's comtpeur is buggered.
13:42:13 <int-e> phenny's time looks good
13:42:33 <sbp> I'm good now too
13:42:33 <sbp> $ showtime
13:42:34 <sbp> Tycho: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 13:41:06 GMT
13:42:34 <sbp> Local: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 13:41:06 GMT
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13:44:46 * sbp changes %e to %d in showtime...
13:45:10 <sbp> $ showtime
13:45:10 <sbp> Tycho: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 13:44:41 GMT
13:45:10 <sbp> Local: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 13:44:41 GMT
13:45:12 <sbp> oh the joy
13:45:19 <sbp> THE FIZZY JOY
13:45:35 * kpreid eyes sbp
13:45:45 <sbp> I... hello
13:45:58 <kpreid> hello
13:46:08 <sbp> I'm wet and bored and tired, I admit
13:46:25 <sbp> 'tis pissing it down outside and I was lately ensconced in that downpour
13:46:54 <sbp> also I have not the charger for this laptop, so I have only 3:46 in which to computer-out as 'twere
13:46:59 <twe> Only have an hour or so.
13:47:01 <sbp> so I'm making the most of it by blathering in here
13:47:08 <sbp> no, over three hours, twe
13:47:17 <twe> No twe, rss 1.1 is twe, twe.
13:47:25 <kpreid> 'tis Raining All Day and other predicted unpleasantness today
13:47:25 <sbp> correct
13:47:33 <kpreid> but I haven't been out yet!
13:47:38 <sbp> good plan
13:48:22 <sbp> I keep thinking I should work on Tabulator...
13:48:25 <sbp> .g Tabulator RDF
13:48:27 <phenny> sbp: http://www.planetapache.org/rss10.xml
13:48:33 <sbp> ...bad google
13:48:42 <sbp> .g Tabulator Javascript Semantic
13:48:44 <phenny> sbp: http://www.w3.org/2005/ajar/tab
13:49:05 <sbp> but the source is a gnarly dialect of Javascript
13:49:11 * darobin wonders if one can really be ensconsed in the rain
13:49:16 <darobin> .wn ensconsed
13:49:19 <phenny> I couldn't find 'ensconsed' in WordNet.
13:49:25 <sbp> .w ensconce
13:49:27 <sbp> .w ensconse
13:49:28 <phenny> ensconce 1. fix firmly
13:49:29 <phenny> I couldn't find 'ensconse' in WordNet.
13:49:41 <sbp> there was no way out, I tell ye
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13:49:48 <sbp> water on all sides!
13:50:19 <darobin> hmmm, http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ensconced has a different definition, closer to the one I would've used
13:50:40 <sbp> we'll go with wordnet because we all know how accurate it is. cough
13:50:57 <darobin> :)
13:50:58 <sbp> (yeah, dict.ref is better)
13:51:04 <darobin> .etym ensconse
13:51:26 * kpreid . o O ( enconsed )
13:51:38 <sbp> hehe
13:51:43 <sbp> .ety ensconce
13:51:46 <phenny> "1590, 'to cover with a fort,' from en- 'make, put in' + sconce 'small fortification, shelter,' probably from Du. schans 'earthwork.'" - http://etymonline.com/?term=ensconce
13:51:52 <sbp> huh
13:52:12 <sbp> .ety scone
13:52:15 <phenny> "'thin, flat cake,' 1513, Scottish, probably from Du. schoon 'bread,' in schoon brood 'fine bread,' from M.Du. schoonbroot, from schoon, scone 'bright, beautiful' (see sheen) + broot (see bread)." - http://etymonline.com/?term=scone
13:52:44 <sbp> both Dutch, but not cognate. bummer!
13:52:47 <darobin> hey! I was thinking of scones too!
13:52:55 <sbp> mmm... scones
13:53:01 <kpreid> .ety sconce
13:53:04 <phenny> "c.1392, 'candlestick with a screen,' aphetic of O.Fr. esconse 'lantern, hiding place,' from M.L. sconsa, from L. absconsa, fem. pp. of abscondere 'to hide.' Meaning 'metal bracket-candlestick fastened to a wall' is recorded from c.1450." - http://etymonline.com/?term=sconce
13:53:19 * darobin wishes he lived in a civilised area in which one could buy scones
13:53:48 <sbp> and I in an area where one would not get ensconced should one want to nip out to obtain such as are scones...
13:53:59 <sbp> ensconced... BY RAIN
13:54:09 <sbp> (as we've established)
13:54:09 <darobin> :)
13:54:30 <darobin> don't you sort of need rain for scones though?
13:54:46 <darobin> would you really have scones if it were bright outside?
13:55:21 <sbp> yeah, I guess they do go down better when you're inside and all cosywarm and you've got a nice scone with a hunk o' butter on it and you just sort of slip it in your gob and go mmmmmmm and look at all the stupid suckers outside your window toiling in the wet and rain and murk
13:55:35 <darobin> wouldn't that be more like crumpet weather?
13:55:46 <sbp> yes, but a different kind of crumpet
13:55:50 <darobin> right, exactly
13:55:57 <sbp> :-)
13:55:58 <kandinski> English Crumpet hmmm
13:56:01 <phenny> kandinski: 13:24Z <sbp> tell kandinski http://xkcd.com/c191.html
13:56:08 <sbp> (that probably reqired a :D)
13:56:14 * darobin should've been English probably
13:56:47 <sbp> you're definitely the least French Frenchman I know
13:57:15 <sbp> and you hate France more than me, which is mad
13:57:30 <darobin> I don't hate it
13:57:38 <darobin> it's just that the food is terrible and the people boring
13:57:42 <sbp> hehe
13:58:58 <sbp> perhaps you should try Italy
13:59:02 <sbp> seems a very food + people place
14:00:12 <tav> hmz, living with 2 frenchmen and exposed to lots of french people
14:00:18 <tav> don't find them boring at all
14:00:32 <tav> and i hated the french before moving in
14:00:41 <sbp> are you in France?
14:00:46 <tav> ah
14:00:56 <sbp> because if not, you're getting all the clever people like darobin who freaked out and left
14:00:58 <tav> suggesting that the interesting french people escape?
14:01:00 <kandinski> Tav does Europe
14:01:01 <sbp> yeah
14:01:04 <sbp> hehe
14:01:27 <darobin> sbp: yeah last I was in Italy it was great
14:01:31 <darobin> they wouldn't have scones though
14:01:33 <kandinski> sbp: ha at xkcd
14:01:50 <tav> uNF!
14:02:19 <sbp> this is true. we need to create a hybrid country which has the best of all worlds! Italian food, Italian people, Italian landmarks, Italian sport, Italian conversations, Italian politics, Italian women, and English scones!
14:02:20 <darobin> the people from any country that you meet abroad are usually the best
14:02:25 <sbp> let's just take scones to Italy!
14:02:27 <darobin> ROFL
14:02:29 <tav> if any of you are about london town tonight, you should come join in on the quarterly party at my place tonight
14:02:59 <darobin> damn, I'm in London next week but not this
14:03:11 <sbp> and ironically Jill is winging her way to me, otherwise I'd suggest she go
14:03:32 <tav> ah =(
14:03:37 <sbp> kandinski: when are you next coming to Das Englands?
14:03:52 <tav> well, no grinding with tav for you then ;p
14:04:17 <sbp> I still hope that one day we'll have a huge fucking Swhack-grind
14:04:26 <sbp> how we'd ship just Morbus and d8uv I don't know though
14:04:34 * darobin sigquotes sbp
14:04:38 <sbp> oooh
14:05:09 <darobin> hmmmm
14:05:12 * tav calls shotgun on libby and jill
14:05:30 <darobin> we're talking about having a DahutCon, maybe that would be the right moment to have a swhack bender
14:05:37 <tav> oh, and Morbus -- that man is just pure kinkiness
14:05:40 <sbp> I'm still shocked that you squeezed a hug out of libby
14:05:59 <tav> even got one from kandinski
14:06:01 <sbp> where's DahutCon taking place?
14:06:08 <sbp> kandinski gives out hugs like cookies
14:06:14 <sbp> he is Mr. Hug
14:06:17 <darobin> very likely looking like Innsbruck
14:06:29 <sbp> on the Spanish Riviera they call him El Hugglio
14:06:37 * darobin never got a hug from kandinski :(
14:06:40 <darobin> lol
14:07:05 <sbp> to the Japanese he is ka-ma-par-ish-hi (tall-happy-mister-hug-man)
14:07:11 <Jabberwock> Want a Jabberwock hug?
14:07:22 * tav grabs Jabberwock
14:07:36 <Jabberwock> That's sexy.
14:07:50 * tav winks
14:07:58 <bunnywabbit_> does kandinski give hugs?
14:08:08 <sbp> so the rumour goes
14:08:09 <crschmidt> nokia 770 for the win
14:08:17 <bunnywabbit_> hey crschmidt :-)
14:08:18 <sbp> ftw!
14:08:19 <bunnywabbit_> how are you doing?
14:08:21 <tav> blackberry pearl man -- so fucking good
14:08:27 <bunnywabbit_> oooh
14:08:29 * sbp waves to bunnywabbit_, crschmidt
14:08:37 * bunnywabbit_ just got a two-day consulting gig at Intel
14:08:39 <bunnywabbit_> *exciting
14:08:43 <sbp> ooh
14:08:45 <tav> congrats!
14:08:46 * bunnywabbit_ waves back to sbp
14:08:48 <bunnywabbit_> thanks :-)
14:09:01 <bunnywabbit_> still filling in the forms though, but it's gonna happen :-)
14:09:08 <bunnywabbit_> Intel, Portland
14:09:11 <bunnywabbit_> with plane and all
14:09:21 <sbp> Portland, OR?
14:09:56 <tav> portland, upyerarse
14:10:09 <tav> you like that, hmmm?
14:10:13 <tav> i like balls
14:10:24 <sbp> what's the two letter state code for Upyerarse?
14:10:35 <Jabberwock> BS
14:10:54 <sbp> I thought that was West Virginia
14:11:01 <Jabberwock> They share it.
14:11:04 <sbp> heh, heh
14:12:06 <sbp> well anyway, had bunnywabbit_ deigned to say "yes", I'd've said: "that's quite a hop"
14:12:14 <sbp> because, you know, wabbit... hop...
14:12:19 <sbp> but she probably saw the pun looming
14:12:35 <tav> haw haw
14:12:47 * darobin groans
14:12:53 <sbp> heheh
14:12:54 * tav slaps sbp and starts fingering him instead
14:13:09 <Jabberwock> with no lube
14:13:18 <sbp> 2lb of lube, on the hair
14:13:32 <sbp> if I understand my eminent friends well
14:13:48 <mumbles> sbp - just went to update my phenny - and i am getting some errors
14:13:56 <sbp> mumbles: oh, like what?
14:13:57 * tav blinks and just waits for the anal creaming to begin
14:14:03 <sbp> lisppaste2: url?
14:14:04 <lisppaste2> To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/swhack and enter your paste.
14:14:04 <mumbles> someone said it was the python virsion
14:14:23 <sbp> could be. feel free to paste feedback into the paste.lisp.org service above
14:14:24 <tav> love me, love me, say that you love me
14:14:33 <sbp> s/feedback/traceback/
14:15:04 <mumbles> sbp - The proxy server received an invalid response from an upstream server.when going on that pastbin
14:15:41 <mumbles> sbp http://pastie.textmate.org/25251
14:16:41 <sbp> mumbles: yeah, you need Python 2.4+ (as it says on-a-de-homepage)
14:16:55 <mumbles> :(
14:17:02 <mumbles> will have to ask the server guy to upgrade
14:17:38 <sbp> Python 2.4 is now two years and one day old
14:17:50 <sbp> so it's been around for a while. no excuses from the server guy!
14:18:05 <tav> get him to upgrade to python2.5 whilst you are at it
14:18:22 <sbp> yeah
14:18:42 <darobin> or even Perl 5.8!
14:18:48 <sbp> noooo
14:18:51 <crschmidt> note that python2.4 is not the default in debian sarge
14:18:58 <crschmidt> but debian 2.5 should be th default in debian etch
14:19:00 <sbp> anything < Perl 6 just blows
14:19:04 <sbp> including Python
14:19:08 <sbp> Perl 6 ownz j00
14:19:09 <crschmidt> (I think)
14:19:09 <darobin> true
14:19:34 <sbp> crschmidt: oh good. when it etch out?
14:19:43 <sbp> or is't already?
14:19:44 <crschmidt> probably end of january
14:19:47 <sbp> cool
14:19:53 <crschmidt> etch -> stable at the end of january, that is
14:19:55 <sbp> about time
14:20:09 <darobin> but the plan is still a little sketchy
14:20:13 <mumbles> sbp how do you test latest python virsion?
14:20:18 <darobin> <rimshot/>
14:20:28 <sbp> mumbles: you mean, how do you check which version you have?
14:20:30 <sbp> python -V
14:20:55 <sbp> Monty: eat darobin's rimshot
14:20:56 <Monty> impose something irrelevant
14:21:03 <mumbles> Python 2.3.5
14:21:03 <mumbles>
14:21:06 <sbp> Monty: YOUR NAME ENDS WITH A Y
14:21:08 <Monty> nice, he's just didn't at the european one Norwegian.
14:21:11 <crschmidt> mumbles: try python2.4 -V
14:21:23 <mumbles> command not found
14:21:28 <crschmidt> yeah, you're screwed
14:22:49 <sbp> ayup
14:22:59 <crschmidt> get sbp to backport phenny to 2.3
14:22:59 <crschmidt> ;)
14:23:10 <sbp> not even happening
14:23:14 <sbp> unless $$$$$$
14:23:18 <crschmidt> how much?
14:23:44 <sbp> let's see... six dollar signs... [sucks in air, mechanic-like]... that's gonna cost ya
14:23:52 <sbp> I dunno actually; I dunno how big a job it is
14:23:56 <crschmidt> probably not that big
14:23:57 <sbp> $20, maybe
14:24:00 <sbp> yeah
14:24:08 <crschmidt> you tned to use the "x for x in z"
14:24:15 <crschmidt> But that's the only thing you tend to use a lot
14:24:31 <sbp> well, it's the []-lessness that blows it
14:24:43 <sbp> but yeah, you're right, unless I used some itertools stuff somewhere
14:24:48 <sbp> in which case, major screwage
14:24:51 <darobin> that's, like, £1.34
14:24:55 <mumbles> i think i have an old virsion somewhere
14:24:59 <darobin> you can't charge that little
14:25:08 <sbp> darobin: hehehe
14:25:14 <sbp> and getting less by the hour
14:27:04 <mumbles> ill just wait untills sbp is bored
14:27:10 <sbp> heh!
14:27:20 <sbp> that's an annoyingly good strategy. I hate you
14:27:21 <sbp> :-)
14:27:53 <mumbles> cool
14:28:03 <mumbles> im going by that and bugging the admin untill he upgrades
14:29:00 <mumbles> <Ozafy> we have the latest stable :(
14:29:09 <mumbles> right need to pop round a mates house to fix there comptuer
14:29:30 <crschmidt> mumbles: what kind of system is it?
14:29:34 <crschmidt> debian?
14:29:40 <sbp> the thing that bugs me here is that Python always installs really, really cleanly from source
14:30:00 <sbp> but everybody is always scared of installing from source on working servers these days because of the capacity for hosage
14:30:03 <crschmidt> mumbles: the meta-package for python in debian stable is usually a version behind
14:30:21 <crschmidt> mumbles: if he's running debian, he can apt-get install python2.4
14:30:30 <crschmidt> and it won't change the current behavior of anything
14:37:51 <Jabberwock> Python is fack
14:37:57 <Jabberwock> Use COBOL
14:38:02 <kandinski> unbut has 2.5 though
14:38:07 <kandinski> Ubuntu
14:39:06 <jsled> .acronym fack
14:40:05 <jsled> acronym fack
14:40:05 <Monty> "FACK" - feed around? core kicked
14:40:25 <Jabberwock> Fack is how malaysians spell fuck
14:40:27 <Jabberwock> lar
14:40:39 <jsled> acronym lar
14:40:39 <Monty> "LAR" - legend, aspect Rico.
14:47:42 <Jabberwock> PLS HOW R I CAN BECAME A MIRC COP!!!!11 lar
14:52:05 <mumbles> back
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14:52:33 <mumbles> crschmidt, - will say
14:56:17 <Jabberwock> Welcome back mumbles.
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17:02:00 <Morbus> sbp: ping.
17:02:02 <phenny> Morbus: 10:09Z <sbp> tell Morbus woah, sweet. odd I didn't find that out accidentally before!
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18:28:46 *** iratsu_ (n=iratsu@modemcable131.196-82-70.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #swhack
18:28:46 <Monty> it's iratsu_!
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18:37:50 <sbp> Morbus: pong
18:38:33 <Morbus> sbp: ne'ermind. found it.
18:38:45 <sbp> m'kay
18:38:46 <Morbus> grep "tell Morbus" FreeNode-#d8uv.org.txt
18:38:56 <Morbus> it was that wii comic strip you sent.
18:38:57 <sbp> ahh
18:39:14 <sbp> ohh
18:39:28 <Morbus> [[[
18:39:28 <Morbus> [13:37] <Morbus> killes: spit it in #swhack.
18:39:28 <Morbus> [13:37] <Morbus> then add "killes <search keywords>"
18:39:28 <Morbus> [13:37] --> mkzelda (n=mkzelda@cpe-071-070-205-135.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #drupal
18:39:28 <Morbus> [13:37] <Morbus> that's what i did for that mysql delete table thing.
18:39:28 <Morbus> [13:38] <Morbus> and i google for "swhack killes mysql"
18:39:30 <Morbus> [13:38] <Morbus> and /always/ find it :)
18:39:32 <Morbus> ]]]
18:39:34 <sbp> it does indeed deserve to live on in fame forever
18:39:45 <sbp> chuckle
18:39:50 <sbp> yeah, that happens to me so damn much
18:39:54 <sbp> "huh, Swhack again"
18:40:02 <sbp> and it can be the craziest, totally non-Swhack thing
18:40:06 <Morbus> yeah
18:40:11 <Morbus> [13:39] <webchick> #swhack scares me.
18:40:14 <sbp> and yet I'll get a log of jcowan chatting with kandinski about it
18:40:17 <sbp> hehe. webchick!
18:40:23 *** mumbles is now known as mumbles-out
18:40:33 <clsn> sbp: I think I figured something out about Tringo. Playing greedy algorithm will frequently keep you from screwing up, but won't get you scores much above 250.
18:40:35 <phenny> clsn: 13:23Z <sbp> tell clsn http://xkcd.com/c191.html
18:40:48 <clsn> You need to play for more large rectangles.
18:41:03 <clsn> Yeah, we all saw xkcd. The author came on to #lojban for a while last night, apparently.
18:42:17 <sbp> greedy algorithm?
18:42:23 *** lemonodor (n=lemonodo@adsl-75-1-7-180.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) has joined #swhack
18:42:23 <Monty> Speak of the devil, it's lemonodor!
18:42:39 <sbp> like getting blocks whenever you see them?
18:42:43 <clsn> Basically, always try to make a square whenever possible, to keep your board clear. You make a lot of small ones.
18:42:50 <sbp> aha, yes
18:42:58 <sbp> I try to aim for as many sixes as possible at first
18:43:15 <sbp> but then when the endgame comes, at a point (with about five to go) you can start guessing and strategising
18:43:19 <sbp> since you know what's likely to come out
18:43:28 <sbp> so sometimes you can gamble for nines. the endgame is the trickiest bit
18:43:54 <clsn> That's what I finally realized. You have to go for sixes and avoid fours to get higher scores. Though there's a balance: you need to learn to take the four to avoid leaving your board too full.
18:44:14 <clsn> Yeah, sometimes you can predict a little in the endgame, though I generally don't try much.
18:44:28 <clsn> Except for making sure not to use longterm strategy on the last piece.
18:44:33 <sbp> and really, you're going to need a couple of nines in game anyway to get in the 300-320 zone... it's really hard to walk that line between 6/9, because you're going to screw up so fast normally. you can't keep playing tringo that way really if you want it to be fun, always looking out for the completely freaky game
18:44:39 <twe> Try "rss 1.1 because it's fun.
18:45:08 <sbp> yuppers on the making sure fours don't stick in the way, too...
18:45:21 <clsn> I've not seen too many scores in the 300 zone anyway; a 280 is at least a decent shot at winning.
18:45:22 <sbp> I often look out for the + and X shapes too... trying to leave space for them
18:45:30 <sbp> and hoping they come out fairly early on so I don't have to worry about them
18:45:32 <clsn> right, make sure they don't screw you over too bad.
18:45:43 <sbp> yeah true. I'm obsessed with getting 300s... :-)
18:45:56 <sbp> (or was. haven't played in months)
18:46:17 <clsn> I've been practicing on meez.com instead of in-game.
18:47:36 <clsn> My daughter has gotten above 220 I think. And she's nine
18:47:39 <sbp> ooh. I got a download of it ages ago, when it was only just about popular for someone to make a standalone
18:47:45 * sbp looks at meez.com
18:47:46 <sbp> awesome
18:48:08 <clsn> A PalmOS version would be nifty. I haven't even looked for one.
18:48:10 * sbp wonders what .dm is... dreamweaver?
18:48:18 <clsn> no idea. I wondered too.
18:48:54 <sbp> ah, I need to do signy uppy stuff. is meez.com a kind of play-with-someone-over-the-net thing, a la Yahoo! Games?
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18:49:59 <clsn> I dunno, I didn't sign up nothin.
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18:56:21 <bjoern_> .wik .dm
18:56:25 <phenny> ".dm is the country code top-level domain (ccTLD) for Dominica." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.dm
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18:56:45 <clsn> http://www.sleepingearthed.com/ <-- See how important it is to wear a grounding strap. (pseudoscience. always fun)
18:57:09 <jcowan> Ittywhonk!
19:02:10 <KragenSitaker> twe, how do you feel about the war on Iraq?
19:02:23 <twe> KragenSitaker: Soupçon is a difference between "designers" and "artists". All artists are designers, but not the war.
19:14:18 <kandinski> Kragen, so you want to be my friend?
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19:25:49 <jcowan> kandinski?
19:26:25 <kandinski> yes
19:29:58 <jcowan> The classic case of bare licensing in common-law countries is saying "Hey, why don't you come to my house next weekend, and you can fish on my pond too."
19:30:04 <jcowan> s/on/in
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19:30:24 <jcowan> Although there is no contract here, the landowner is estopped from suing for trespass or conversion of the fish.
19:32:31 <kandinski> yes
19:33:20 <kandinski> and if the owner says "you can fish the red fish but not the white ones", that is not a contractual obligation
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19:33:30 <kandinski> for the guest, I mean
19:34:20 <kandinski> I heard Eben Moglen explain the GPL in Barcelona in terms of "pure licenses" (I might have misheard and he said "bare")
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19:35:22 <KragenSitaker> what is the status of such licenses in non-common-law countries like Spain?
19:36:18 <deltab> sbp: DM is Donnerwood Media
19:36:18 <kandinski> that is what we are discussing
19:36:26 <kandinski> but apparently they are contractual offers
19:36:40 <deltab> sbp: Dreamweaver's abbreviation is DW
19:36:46 <kandinski> IANAL etc, but what transpires so far is that in Spain a donation is a contractual offer
19:36:52 <kandinski> you are not requiered to take it
19:36:54 <deltab> (or MM)
19:37:06 <kandinski> if you accept it, you enter a contract
19:37:21 <kandinski> then there are two types of contracts, reciprocal and non-reciprocal
19:37:45 <kandinski> and I am arguing that the GPL is a non-reciprocal relationship, but some lawyer is arguing that it creates new obligations
19:38:34 <KragenSitaker> i see
19:39:18 <kandinski> we are still at odds
19:39:33 <kandinski> I think I am right even in Spain, btw
19:40:05 <KragenSitaker> Drea Mweaver
19:40:20 <kandinski> Moglen is, and if I have understood him clearly, the GPL is non synallagmatic (not reciprocal)
19:40:30 <KragenSitaker> in common-law countries, the peppercorn doctrine holds that non-reciprocal contracts don't exist
19:40:37 <kandinski> that is what he means by "a license, not a contract"
19:40:48 <kandinski> KragenSitaker: it is wordplay
19:40:59 <kandinski> in Spain, everything is a contract
19:41:08 <kandinski> so what I am doing now is this transposition:
19:41:19 <kandinski> license == contrato no sinalagmático
19:41:35 <kandinski> contract == contrato sinalagmático
19:41:48 <kandinski> it is just that "contract" and "contrato" are not synonyms
19:41:54 <kandinski> end of problem
19:42:47 <KragenSitaker> hmm, i suspect that this is a very hairy translation problem
19:43:06 <KragenSitaker> since of course you can talk in spanish about english law, and in english about spanish law
19:43:44 <KragenSitaker> and most people who have done so in the past will have used a less wordy translation, so you will get a lot of confusion if someone reads both
19:43:49 <KragenSitaker> kinds of translation
19:44:30 <kandinski> well
19:44:49 <kandinski> if the words do not mean the same, they should not be used interchangeably
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19:45:28 <kandinski> and the people who did in the past were wrong in certain cases
19:46:18 <kandinski> there must be some international law doctrine about that
19:46:26 <kandinski> if there is not, there should be!
19:46:45 <Jabberwock> I love all ya'll.
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19:47:27 <jcowan> It's a borderline case, which is why it's not much of a problem,
19:47:34 <jcowan> but yes, the conflict of laws is in a primitive state
19:47:55 <jcowan> (my father wrote an article about it, called "Marks of Primitivity in the Conflict of Laws")
19:48:09 <kandinski> oh, do you have a copy?
19:48:15 <jcowan> Hard copy only.
19:48:24 <jcowan> CoL comes up a lot in the U.S. with our 51 separate legal systems.
19:48:37 <kandinski> well, it is a borderline case that might affect how Spanish lawyers defend (or fail to) Free Software Licenses
19:48:39 <jcowan> probably even more than in Europe.
19:48:43 <jcowan> Indeed.
19:48:55 * jcowan has an idea
19:50:05 <jcowan> Oho.
19:50:07 <jcowan> AIYCA
19:50:13 <jcowan> What about obligations quasi ex contractu?
19:50:31 <jcowan> [[[
19:50:32 <jcowan> An example of a quasi-contract is the case of a plumber who accidentally installs a sprinkler system in the lawn of the wrong house. The owner of the house had learned the previous day that his neighbor was getting new sprinklers. That morning, he sees the plumber installing them in his own lawn. Pleased at the mistake, he says nothing, and then refuses to pay when the plumber hands him the bill. Will the man be held liable for payment? Yes, if it could b
19:50:32 <jcowan> e proven that the man knew that the sprinklers were being installed mistakenly, the court would make him pay because of a quasi-contract. If that knowledge could not be proven, he would not be liable.
19:50:36 <jcowan> ]]]
19:50:53 <jcowan> The Other Place is still yammering.
19:51:23 * jcowan parts from The Other Place
19:51:43 <kandinski> I will have to o soon
19:51:49 <jcowan> Hmm, no, perhaps not useful.
19:51:51 <kandinski> s/ o / go /
19:51:59 <kandinski> that is what I wondered
19:52:10 <kandinski> I think it is clear that there is no synallagma
19:52:20 <jcowan> Yes, that is clear.
19:52:25 <kandinski> I just have to explain it to the lawyers who purport to defend the GPL so they defend it right
19:52:33 <jcowan> And the obligation is ex contractu to a civilian,
19:52:42 <kandinski> well, in Spain there is a problem with the moral rights
19:52:46 <jcowan> since all obligations are ex contractu or ex delicto, and there is obviously no delict here.
19:53:05 <jcowan> Isn't that covered by the don't-remove-the-attribution-notice?
19:53:10 <kandinski> but that is not the matter now
19:53:24 <kandinski> jcowan: moral rights include the right to retire from circulation
19:53:30 <jcowan> Ow.
19:53:34 <kandinski> not just attribution
19:53:38 <kandinski> defamation
19:53:38 <kandinski> etc
19:53:44 <jcowan> s/Ow/Oh
19:53:45 <kandinski> moral right suck indeed
19:53:54 <jcowan> how drastic is it?
19:53:59 <kandinski> I don't know
19:54:05 <kandinski> I only know what I learn in discussions
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19:54:13 <jcowan> I take it that merely prevents more copies from being sold, not that existing copies cease to belong to the current owners.
19:54:14 <kandinski> we haven't touched moral rights yet
19:54:27 <kandinski> the right to redistribute would cease
19:54:27 <jcowan> In which case it's the same for the GPL: a bare license is revocable at will, at least as to future parties.
19:54:41 <kandinski> so say some
19:54:50 <jcowan> EvilCo buys up GoodCo, revokes GPL on existing software;
19:55:04 <kandinski> in USA you can do stuff "in perpetuity"
19:55:07 <jcowan> existing licensees are doubtfully protected, but future licensees are clearly not, assuming proper notice etc.
19:55:07 <kandinski> not so in Spain
19:55:17 <jcowan> Actually not in the U.S. either.
19:55:22 <kandinski> oh
19:55:26 <jcowan> For one thing, copyright itself is not in perpetuity.
19:55:41 <jcowan> (though it may look that way, thanks to the Mouse Protection Act)
19:55:57 <kandinski> gotta go, nice talking to you. I would love to talk further some other day.
19:56:16 <kandinski> thanks a lot, Mr Cowan
19:56:42 <jcowan> De nada, Mr. Kandinski.
19:57:14 <kandinski> Your comments have been invaluably helpful. Your cheque is in the post.
19:59:45 * jcowan takes an ax, splits the post, and deftly retrieves the check from the heartwood.
20:01:44 <kpreid> .gc "sanity cheque"
20:01:47 <phenny> "sanity cheque": 201
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20:07:53 <int-e> .gc "utterly repaired"
20:07:56 <phenny> "utterly repaired": 12
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20:18:17 <clarity> yo
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21:16:50 <crschmid1> hi
21:16:53 <crschmid1> sbp`: ping
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22:58:44 <Monty> welcome, kpreid
22:59:24 <est_> welcome, Monty!
22:59:26 <Monty> I reckon greetings + shops = cauliflowers!
22:59:37 <kpreid> thanks, Monty
22:59:39 <kpreid> forgot to reconnect
22:59:39 <Monty> awww JimH how do the United States, and all ya'll.
23:00:11 <aeonite> http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/12/01/bush-supporters-psychotic
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23:05:33 <jsled> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/chris-weigant/the-stunning-cluelessness_b_35367.html
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23:08:31 <est_> today's xkcd is about lojban: http://xkcd.com/
23:09:04 *** est has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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23:12:16 <GraveDigger> gn8
23:15:37 <tro> est: it's been mentioned a couple of times here today already :)
23:18:44 <kpreid> Firefox crop circle (via Making Light): http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&om=1&z=18&ll=45.123789,-123.113791&spn=0.001915,0.002586&t=h
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23:34:42 <jsled> Heh. http://seenonslash.com/node/810
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