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00:14:13 <Monty> welcome, d8uv
00:14:15 <d8uv> Monty, remind me on 2007-04-14 to buy back d8uv.com
00:14:17 <Monty> 2006-12-21 19:10:58 * sbp i'm sorry.
00:14:38 <d8uv> NO
00:14:45 <Ash> yes
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00:59:49 <kpreid>
00:59:51 <phenny> kpreid: 03 Feb 20:06Z <jcowan> tell kpreid gee, thanks.
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02:11:44 <Monty> welcome, BigJibby
02:12:10 <BigJibby> hey Monty
02:12:12 <Monty> I'm going to stock scratched pregnancy >:)
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04:29:27 <perigrin> @wunder msp
04:29:29 <supybot> perigrin: The current temperature in Minneapolis, Minnesota is -9.4°F (9:53 PM CST on February 03, 2007). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 59%. Dew Point: -20.2°F. Windchill: -29.2°F. Pressure: 30.22 in 1023 hPa. Wind Chill Advisory in effect until 12 PM CST Monday...
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04:41:53 <jcowan> Ittywhonk!
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07:58:33 <Monty> it's Gromgul1!
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07:58:37 <Monty> welcome, DjEther
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10:51:17 <Monty> hi astecp
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10:56:05 <bjoern_> AND IN THE RIGHT CORNERZ MONTY TEH <please insert text here Monty>
10:56:06 <Monty> thanks, brb
10:56:37 <bjoern_> err, just say what would fit in Monty, you don't have to actually physically do it, okay?
10:56:37 <Monty> bombs == cooker;
10:56:51 * bjoern_ wonders whether that's a threat
11:00:00 <bjoern_> "A team of scientists from Washington, Wisconsin, and Germany ..."
11:00:08 <bjoern_> aah, the three great nations
11:02:45 <bjoern_> "Material Tougher Than Diamond Developed" "That's impossible! Diamond is the hardest metal known the man!"
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12:19:08 <Monty> Thank goodness, JibberJim is back!
12:19:10 <phenny> Be quiet, Monty.
12:19:15 <Monty> You know, epigraphic finite aerosols configures cumbersome quixotic modules!
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13:10:21 <kpreid> phenny: tell jcowan could we have more context for the "is a kind of" question?
13:10:23 <phenny> kpreid: I'll pass that on when jcowan is around.
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14:00:49 <bjoern_> countdown
14:00:49 <Monty> One large one and five small numbers: 100, 10, 1, 10, 4, 5. Your target is 470. You have thirty seconds, tick, tock, tick, tock...
14:01:10 <bjoern_> calc 100*5 - 4*(10-1)
14:01:10 <Monty> bjoern_: 464
14:01:19 <Monty> Duh dum, duh dum, duh-da-da-dum! Your 30 seconds are up!
14:01:21 <Monty> I found a solution in approximately 3 milliseconds. I found all 288 solutions in about 231 milliseconds.
14:01:22 <Monty> ibot ((10 - 1)*10 + 4)*5
14:01:51 <bjoern_> countdown
14:01:51 <Monty> One large one and five small numbers: 75, 1, 4, 8, 7, 5. Your target is 929. You have thirty seconds, tick, tock, tick, tock...
14:02:04 <bjoern_> calc (5+7)*75
14:02:04 <Monty> bjoern_: 900
14:02:21 <Monty> Duh dum, duh dum, duh-da-da-dum! Your 30 seconds are up!
14:02:22 <Monty> I found a solution in approximately 145 milliseconds. I found all 1 solutions in about 202 milliseconds.
14:02:23 <bjoern_> calc (5+7)*(75 +4)
14:02:24 <Monty> ibot ((8 - 5)*75 + 7)*4 + 1
14:02:25 <Monty> bjoern_: 948
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14:19:51 <sbp> HELLO
14:20:03 <sbp> hmm: "It has been speculated that such an interface, rumored to be called "Illuminous", will sport more glossy black elements in the user interface, as well as discontinuing the use of Lucida Grande as the default system font." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_v10.5
14:20:08 <sbp> I wonder what it'll be replaced with?
14:20:48 <sbp> also, I've often wanted an easier way or getting to a Wikipedia article's canonical URI, but I hadn't really thought about it before today... I just found you can click the "article" tab at the top which always goes to the canonical URI
14:21:52 <sbp> ah, here we go. http://boredzo.org/blog/archives/category/creations/keynotebingo/ says it'll be replaced with Myriad
14:22:01 <kpreid> Lucida Grande won't be going away
14:22:23 <sbp> nice font on that page... hmm: font-family: Baskerville,serif
14:22:28 <kpreid> for existing apps, anyway, unless it's replaced with something smaller or they install better code, perhaps
14:22:32 <sbp> you mean it'll s... oh
14:22:41 <sbp> don't they just use the system deafult?
14:22:46 <kpreid> because Interface Builder encourages dependent-on-precise-font-metrics layout
14:22:51 <sbp> aha
14:23:10 <kpreid> if the text got any bigger you'd get missing words as they wrapped/clipped out of view
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14:23:48 <sbp> [[[
14:23:49 <sbp> Since the launch of the eMac in 2002, Myriad has been replacing Apple Garamond as Apple Computer's corporate font. It is now used in all of their marketing and on their products (See Apple typography#Myriad Apple). More recent iterations of the iPod (from the iPod photo onwards) have used Podium Sans, which has similarities with Myriad (as opposed to Chicago), for their user interface. Another humanist sans-serif typeface, Lucida Grande is used as the system font
14:23:54 <sbp> for Apple's Mac OS X operating system. Myriad is also used by Wells Fargo as their banner headline typeface.
14:23:57 <sbp> ]]]
14:23:59 <sbp> - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myriad_(typeface)
14:24:34 <kpreid> well, it's quite plausible that they'd make the display of cntrol labels more robust
14:25:02 <sbp> the interesting thing about Myriad is its meldability
14:25:23 <sbp> 'Myriad is a multiple masters face that works with an intelligent software "engine" to allow the user to generate variations in width and weight by accessing a broad range of stroke widths arranged on individual character rasters.'
14:25:49 <sbp> mould- rather than meld- perhaps
14:26:01 <sbp> I wonder if that'll let it be a pixel-perfect drop in for Lucida Grande?
14:29:59 <bjoern_> SBP !
14:30:01 <bjoern_> DA BOING!
14:30:15 <sbp> hello!
14:30:23 <sbp> how's the validator coming along?
14:30:28 <sbp> what actually are you doing now?
14:30:32 <sbp> it seems like you started off doing CSS
14:30:38 <sbp> but are extending it to do RELAX NG
14:30:46 <sbp> and eventually will be able to validate the world
14:31:07 <sbp> ParseError, White House: The President is a boob.
14:31:37 <bjoern_> well! right now I'm fighting with making immutable data structures cyclic and mutating hashes while iterating over them. so far very unsuccessfully so...
14:32:05 <bjoern_> I am just using the rng syntax and validation algorithm
14:32:12 <bjoern_> I don't currently have interest in validating xml documents
14:32:21 <sbp> so it's still for CSS?
14:32:34 <bjoern_> there are two validators, one for CSS, one for strings
14:32:58 <crschmidt> What kind of validation can you do on a string?
14:33:19 <bjoern_> check whether the string is in the language generated by some context sensitive grammar.
14:33:27 <crschmidt> I see
14:33:43 <sbp> is the CSS one a subset of the CSG validator?
14:33:56 <bjoern_> so you can, say, convert the 'http' URI scheme ABNF to my grammar format, and check whether some string is a valid 'http' URI, for example.
14:33:57 <sbp> or does it require Special Things?
14:34:22 <bjoern_> they share a lot of code
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14:35:04 <sbp> but why the differences? because of a superset of features required, optimisation, or what?
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14:36:38 <bjoern_> well, for strings you would have, say, character classes like [a-z] while for CSS you check "is this a valid length"
14:36:51 <bjoern_> so, the data type handling is different
14:37:17 <bjoern_> I would hope to factor the common code out at some point, but that's not a priority
14:39:32 <sbp> hmm at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Podium_Sans
14:39:41 <sbp> aha
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14:40:39 <Monty> yo ndw!
14:41:02 <ndw> Heh
14:46:16 <sbp> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Podium_Sans_iPod_5th_Gen.jpg - shame that this isn't a PNG
15:01:44 <sbp> hehe. Katherine Jenkins is singing at a rugby match
15:01:54 <sbp> and she's sponsored by this beer company...
15:02:07 <sbp> so she has "BRAINS" (the name of the company) written across her bust
15:02:12 <bjoern_> So yesterday I asked:
15:02:14 <bjoern_> [[[
15:02:15 <jsled> heh
15:02:27 <bjoern_> ]]]
15:02:33 <bjoern_> DONT FUTZ WITH MY QUOTE!
15:02:36 <bjoern_> [[[
15:02:39 <bjoern_> Is it true that for a left-recursive pattern p its non-left-recursive
15:02:39 <bjoern_> equivalent is `p1 followed by zero or more of p2` where: p1 is p if it
15:02:39 <bjoern_> wasn't allowed to start with an instance of itself, and p2 is what is
15:02:39 <bjoern_> left of p after matching an instance of itself.
15:02:40 <bjoern_> ]]]
15:02:42 <sbp> you got jsled to ask heh for you? cool
15:02:48 <sbp> yeah, I remember that. that just made my head hurt
15:02:57 <bjoern_> I've now implemented this, and it seems to work!
15:04:13 <sbp> got a test suite for it and such?
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15:05:09 <bjoern_> Anything but testing! Beat me, whip me, send me to Detroit, but don't make me write tests!
15:06:35 * ndw chuckles
15:07:33 <sbp> someone needs to merge the fields of regression test suite producing and candy tasting
15:07:48 <sbp> until they are one and the same
15:08:05 <sbp> (of course, that'll probably just ruin candy tasting. test suites besmirch all!)
15:08:27 <ndw> I have to say, the whole writing test cases thing got a lot more palatable after it saved my sorry ass once or twice.
15:08:54 * ndw has no desire to ever produce a "regression failure" in a major product ever again.
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15:09:30 <bjoern_> I like the Mozilla approach, "Our users are our test suite"
15:09:51 <kpreid> I have found a large body of tests to be a help when one is ripping out and rearranging the guts of a large program
15:10:01 <kpreid> "Okay, does it still do all the things it used to?
15:10:02 <kpreid> "
15:11:27 <sbp> and doctests can be almost at the level of literate programming if done nicely
15:11:47 <sbp> I've not found a nice system that lets you hide the context-setting-up bits of doctests in the exposition, though. that would be cool
15:12:11 <crschmidt> Using the external-file doctests for that works for me
15:12:21 <crschmidt> If you make your doctests part of your README
15:12:29 <crschmidt> then you *want* to demonstrate the setting-things-up for the user
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15:14:14 <sbp> oh, no, I meant writing doctests for bits of code that require you to set up a lot of state before you can do the tests. the essential part isn't the setting up the test, it's the test itself... but there's not normally a way to say "this is the important bit of the test. pay attention to this! don't even export the rest in whatever doctest browsing/export program you're using!"
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15:20:48 <Monty> it's danja!
15:23:22 <tav> sbp: hmz, just have 2 separate documents and import from one to the other ?
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15:35:37 <sbp> tav: well, if you think about the doctest module in python... I guess one could write a wrapper around doctest that searches for tags in the doctests themselves which show which part of the test is the interesting bit
15:35:48 <sbp> yeah, I hadn't thought about practical solutions for it, before
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15:50:07 <Monty> hi rw_fenrir
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16:58:25 <Monty> But what does MoiraA have to do with the price of fish?
16:58:27 <phenny> Hush there, Monty.
16:58:31 <Monty> The top which nokia is so good for tags in 1015 hPa (Falling).
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18:08:06 <Monty> bah, it's idickinson again
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18:38:46 <Monty> Speak of the devil, it's lemonodor!
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19:09:20 <Monty> hi darobin, how ya doing?
19:09:22 <phenny> Monty: shh, don't let anyone know you're around!
19:09:23 <Monty> Do you sometimes wish you were around ?
19:09:40 <darobin> Monty: all the time
19:09:43 <Monty> Coca-Cola's worst marginalia breaks LuRcH's standalone staircase!
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22:38:27 <Monty> Speak of the devil, it's JibberJim!
22:46:18 <est> mmnnnu
22:48:24 <JibberJim> nnooov
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23:48:02 <Monty> howdy, ndw
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