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00:19:02 <bjoern_> .gc "$#!T"
00:19:04 <phenny> "$#!T": 3,200,000,000
00:19:19 <bjoern_> .gc 1..99999999999
00:19:22 <phenny> 1..99999999999: 15,090,000,000
00:19:51 <bjoern_> So the web is 20% $#!T
00:22:26 <_hex_> I thought it was more like 90%, if Sturgeon's to be believed...
00:23:54 <bjoern_> Well most of the web is spam, if you add that, you should be about there.
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01:55:14 <Monty> yo perigrin!
01:55:39 <perigrin> Monty!
01:55:39 <Monty> :-P
01:55:54 <perigrin> Monty, :p to you too
01:55:55 <Monty> frozen clumsy ego >:)
01:57:43 <bjoern_> xover?
01:58:49 <xover> bjoern_?
01:59:09 <bjoern_> I am confused by your latest public-html posting
01:59:26 <xover> I'm sure. :-)
01:59:54 <bjoern_> So how did he manage to remove your formal objection?
02:00:08 <bjoern_> I don't see how anything has changed between your two messages.
02:00:36 <bjoern_> You rather seem to still object but phrase it very differently
02:00:47 <xover> yes
02:01:25 <xover> The question put to vote was not in line with reality.
02:01:51 <bjoern_> Oh I absolutely agree, and was very thankful to see that 1 of 400 or so members managed to figure that out.
02:02:17 <xover> That's probably about what we can expect going forward I think.
02:02:30 <xover> And only on average for good days.
02:03:23 <bjoern_> So you are still saying the working group must first decide on whether to accept Ian's conditions?
02:03:55 <bjoern_> and, btw, pleeeaaasseee get your mail client to not wrap lines like it does right now
02:04:00 <xover> I asked the Chairs' to stipulate to that fact, which means the question really has no great meaning. They'll do great at being Editors _iff_ we should be unfortunate enough that the WG uses the wtfwg stuff as its basis.
02:04:25 <xover> (sorry, they've messed with the wrapping and I haven't figured out how to undo it yet)
02:05:32 <xover> The WG must first decide on whether it wants to swallow wtfwg whole. If they do I'm certainly not going to bother objecting to Ian as its Editor.
02:06:22 <bjoern_> note that the survey asks for using it as the basis for review
02:06:30 <bjoern_> not "should we copy and paste this into /TR/"
02:06:46 <xover> That would be the practical effect of it.
02:07:24 <KragenSitaker> it doesn't seem to me that that would be unfortunate, xover
02:07:27 <bjoern_> That is likely true considering the membership structure, but easier to argue against later
02:07:28 <xover> The WG members would be about as effective as a random person on www-html reviewing the finished HTML4 Rec and expecting actual changes to happen.
02:08:22 <KragenSitaker> the html5 work is reasonably good and already deployed; diverging from it without a good reason would create incompatibilities for no good reason
02:08:34 <bjoern_> the wtf stuff goes from nice! over ridiciolous to outright harmful.
02:08:49 <bjoern_> there is much that is completely undeployed
02:09:00 <KragenSitaker> yes, that is probably true
02:09:19 <KragenSitaker> maybe there can be influence in both directions
02:09:36 <KragenSitaker> but i kind of think that the w3c has lost most of its credibility in this matter
02:13:05 <KragenSitaker> although i doubt apple's threat to privatize firefox created a lot of *good* feeling
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02:13:23 <bjoern_> That's complete news to me KragenSitaker, pointer?
02:13:59 <KragenSitaker> bjoern_: http://lists.whatwg.org/pipermail/whatwg-whatwg.org/2007-March/010129.html
02:14:32 <xover> The wtfwg stuff should be reviewd and the good stuff adopted into the new spec.
02:14:34 <KragenSitaker> i haven't been following the issue to see if they've retracted it since march
02:14:58 <xover> The only reason to assume it'd be faster to adopt it as it is is because you assume that will lead to less review.
02:15:51 <bjoern_> KragenSitaker, that's just Apple saying we might sue anyone who uses <canvas>, commonly misread as saying Apple will rf-license anything they have once the time is right.
02:16:00 <bjoern_> I don't think it has anything to do with Firefox.
02:16:36 <KragenSitaker> bjoern_: Firefox uses <canvas> and is the primary non-Apple deployed code base
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02:16:53 <KragenSitaker> that does
02:18:00 <xover> Funny that, I just asked the wtfwg folk about html5's patent staus in re the RF policy earlier today.
02:18:00 <KragenSitaker> apple's threat to sue anyone using <canvas> is therefore a threat to sue Firefox users, distributors, and developers, in order to expropriate the work done by the Firefox developers
02:26:32 * xover really needs to head off to bed...
02:27:26 <bjoern_> night xover
02:27:33 <xover> `night
02:27:55 <KragenSitaker> night
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03:29:13 <jsled> lol. http://seenonslash.com/node/1239
03:29:23 <jsled> Apropos to the channel. I swears it.
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04:56:36 <kpreid> .gc "cinco de mayonnaise"
04:56:38 <phenny> "cinco de mayonnaise": 556
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08:19:28 <sbp> phenny: tell kpreid yeah, expected breakage. will last for a couple of days at the most
08:19:30 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when kpreid is around.
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08:33:34 <sbp> "In 1934 the Times reported that Senora Anna Morano, 'the Luminous Woman of Pirano', who suffered from asthma, emitted a blue glow from her breast as she slept. Many doctors came to witness the phenomenon" - Fortean Times
08:34:24 <sbp> "Just got back from lunch. The guy sitting across from us in the park was masturbating under a sweater. Good times." - Jason Kottke
08:34:35 <sbp> hella weird news today
08:40:14 <sbp> cool: http://www.airspacemag.com/issues/2006/october-november/images/V2-panorama.jpg - first photo of earth from space
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08:46:06 *** sbp changed the topic to: "He Got Away Scoot Free"
08:56:00 <sbp> this is pretty cool:
08:56:01 <sbp> http://www.unfocusedbrain.com/projects/match_color/
08:56:07 <sbp> shame I have no Photoshop though
08:56:24 <sbp> any free image processors that do the same, anyone know?
08:56:57 <sbp> ah, someone discussed how to do it in GIMP:
08:56:58 <sbp> http://www.flickr.com/groups/gimpusers/discuss/72157600174804224/
08:57:16 <sbp> with no definite results
08:59:43 <jsled> "Nice to see people using .bz2 and not .sit or .zip (vintage stuff) :)"
09:00:13 <sbp> heh, where's that from?
09:00:18 <jsled> SORRY.
09:00:18 <jsled> http://www.flickr.com/groups/gimpusers/discuss/72157600155718117/#comment72157600160753024
09:00:20 <sbp> not as if bz2 isn't ancient either
09:00:43 <sbp> you and your "reading" of "things"
09:00:54 <jsled> Some people's models of the world are strange.
09:01:09 <sbp> the bubblegum ones are sometimes good though
09:01:16 <sbp> with papier mache continents
09:01:25 <sbp> (sorry, eating, can't diacritic right now)
09:01:39 <jsled> (props to the Show Anchors plugin)
09:02:49 <jsled> of course, there's a "permalink" link right there, but Show Anchors is still cool.
09:12:02 <sbp> funny how the British Nationalist Party... well, let's see if Wikipedia tells us
09:12:07 <sbp> .wik British Nationalist Party
09:12:09 <phenny> "The British National Party (BNP) is a far right political party in the United Kingdom." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Nationalist_Party
09:12:12 <sbp> .wik Scottish Nationalist Party
09:12:15 <phenny> "The Scottish National Party (SNP) (Scottish Gaelic: Pàrtaidh Nàiseanta na h-Alba) is a centre-left political party which campaigns for Scottish independence." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Nationalist_Party
09:12:22 <sbp> yeah, there you go. heh
09:12:49 <sbp> "nationalism ain't what it used to be"?
09:13:10 <sbp> so the SNP just got a majority in the Scottish Parliament over Labour by one seat
09:13:26 <sbp> and now they'll all be trying to form coalitions to have the working majority
09:13:58 <sbp> but the problem is that the SNP obviously (duh) want to hold a referendum at some point as to Scotland getting its independence and breaking The Auld Union
09:14:26 <sbp> and the third party, the Liberal Democrats (who are actually more right than the SNP, I think), are like "no" at that
09:14:47 <sbp> I wonder if they should hold a referendum as to whether they want a referendum. a metareferendum
09:14:49 <sbp> that'd be great
09:14:52 <jsled> heh.
09:14:56 <jsled> more right, or more correct?
09:15:04 <sbp> more right-wing
09:15:09 <sbp> .wik Liberal Democrats
09:15:11 <phenny> "The Liberal Democrats, often shortened to Lib Dems, are a liberal political party in the United Kingdom formed in 1988 by the merger of the Liberal Party and the short-lived Social Democratic Party; the two parties had already been in an alliance for some years prior [...]" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Democrats
09:15:37 <sbp> ah, here we go:
09:15:38 <sbp> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Democrats#Left_wing_or_right_wing.3F
09:15:47 <jsled> The liberal democrats are more right-wing of the SNP?
09:16:16 <sbp> yeah, though read the link I just pasted too
09:16:27 <sbp> the Lib Dems are kinda centre, or just left of centre perhaps
09:17:19 <sbp> for the only non-right-wing choice that the English voter has, the Lib Dems are kinda naff
09:17:22 * jsled makes a mental note to compare this to last week's Economist discussion of the SNP.
09:18:02 <sbp> I should move to Scotland. only, I don't support breaking the auld union
09:18:57 <sbp> if we *did* split the union, which country would get the "Great" and which would get the "Britain"?
09:20:10 <jsled> heh
09:21:21 <JibberJim> The economist reckoned the French would have to vote on the Scots going into the EU - that would be fun
09:21:32 <sbp> bwahaha
09:23:45 <sbp> hmm
09:24:00 <sbp> I wonder what odds the bookies have on the next govt. being a Conservative one?
09:24:04 <sbp> because it's so achingly obvious
09:25:26 <sbp> ugh. Google "site:uk election bet"
09:25:34 <sbp> Result "US Presidential Election Betting - Bet on the Next President at ..."
09:26:51 <sbp> ugh, betting sites suck. screw this
09:29:20 <JibberJim> 2.42 NOC 2.7 Con 3.95 Lab 90 Any other
09:29:30 <JibberJim> so a hung parliament is favourite on betfair
09:29:39 <JibberJim> on most seats
09:29:48 <JibberJim> CON 1.66 Lab 2.54 LibDem 75
09:30:23 <sbp> ah, thanks
09:30:28 <sbp> 1.66:1?
09:30:47 <JibberJim> decimal odds 1.66 = 4/6
09:30:59 <JibberJim> 2.5 is 6/4
09:31:15 <JibberJim> 75 is 74/1
09:32:01 <sbp> and how on earth did you find that?
09:32:15 <sbp> I only see the usual "sports, casino, blah" on the betfair homepage
09:32:26 <JibberJim> oh it's a sport :D
09:32:29 <JibberJim> always has been
09:32:37 <JibberJim> sport - politics - UK
09:32:42 <JibberJim> but I knew it was there
09:32:55 <sbp> ha! so it is
09:33:41 <JibberJim> so that Romney chap has overtaken McCain too
09:34:04 <JibberJim> don't seem to rate Hilary's chances much
09:34:12 <JibberJim> 2-1 still on "female president"
09:34:38 <JibberJim> which is interesting as she's 6/5 on Democratic candidate
09:34:43 <sbp> heh
09:34:50 <JibberJim> and democrats big favourites to win
09:34:53 <sbp> shows what they think about the dems then
09:34:55 <sbp> oh, really? huh
09:35:00 <JibberJim> could be a chance to make some money in the differences there :D
09:35:05 <sbp> yeah
09:35:14 <jsled> McCain's in a world of hurt. But Romney will not even be close.
09:35:40 <JibberJim> so it's giulani for sure jsled?
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09:36:13 <jsled> He's got problems, too, but maybe less so than the others. There's a lot of talk about Thompson, but I just don't see it.
09:36:37 <JibberJim> Fred or Tommy?
09:36:50 <JibberJim> Fred presumably as betfair have him a 6-1
09:37:19 <jsled> Fred, yes. The Law and Order guy.
09:39:41 <JibberJim> Looks like Sarkozy tomorrow
09:39:58 <JibberJim> are you happy darobin?
09:40:18 *** sbp changed the topic to: "Dracula's Gonna Win"
09:40:20 <darobin> of course not
09:40:25 <darobin> but it's not over yet
09:40:25 <jsled> I'd believe it. I'd predicated some european investment on that, but didn't actually invest.
09:40:29 <JibberJim> I thought you might've come round
09:40:40 <JibberJim> darobin if you really think Royale has a hope
09:40:45 <JibberJim> there's a lot of money to be made betting on it
09:40:49 <JibberJim> 'cos no-one else does!
09:40:55 <darobin> yeah I know
09:41:09 <sbp> as long as those people aren't voting, no problem
09:41:16 <darobin> the polls are for Sarko outside the marging of error
09:41:35 <JibberJim> I wonder what the geographical split for betfair is
09:41:41 <jsled> Sonny Sarko
09:41:54 <JibberJim> it'd be interesting to know if the money on the politics bets there were coming from
09:42:07 <JibberJim> maybe I need to go hang around hammersmith pubs until I meet a betfair guy
09:42:33 <JibberJim> or even better a betfair girl!
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09:45:47 <darobin> oooh, so the SNP did win, that's interesting
09:45:55 <sbp> by one seat, yeah
09:51:11 <JibberJim> would you vote to let scotland into the EU darobin?
09:51:36 <darobin> yeah definitely
09:51:50 <darobin> I mean not that I have a strong feeling about it
09:51:56 <JibberJim> :D
09:52:03 <darobin> but they've always been more pro-EU than the rest of the union
09:52:19 <JibberJim> what if it was packaged up so you had to vote Turkey in too...
09:52:30 <JibberJim> which is the sort of thing I could see happening
09:52:32 <darobin> then I'd vote with both hands
09:52:41 <JibberJim> good good
09:53:23 <darobin> voting Turkey in is the only strategy to make sure they keep on their path towards democracy and laicity
09:53:55 <JibberJim> yeah, you're a useless frenchman
09:54:25 <JibberJim> go live up to your stereotype - vote for le-pen, set fire to cars come on, are you a frenchman or what?!
09:54:35 <darobin> and hey we haven't kicked Poland out (yet) so if we can survive with rabid christianists, surely all can go well with moderate muslims
09:55:04 <darobin> well I did test that I could barricade my flat in preparation for sunday night
09:55:25 <darobin> things could get ugly
09:55:49 * darobin trots off for some breakfast
10:03:22 <JibberJim> hmm, so SNP, Tory, Green coalition for scotland do you think?
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10:14:15 <Monty> hi darobin, how ya doing?
10:14:36 <phenny> Monty: shh, don't let anyone know you're around!
10:14:39 <Monty> I reckon middle name + glasspaper = helical mrk.
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10:22:13 <sbp> JibberJim: SNP-Tory-Green: hehe
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10:42:57 <Monty> hi jetscreamer, how ya doing?
10:42:59 <phenny> Monty: shh, don't let anyone know you're around!
10:42:59 <Monty> Perhaps you would like to be around .
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10:51:06 <xover> sbp!
10:56:48 <sbp> hello!
10:57:23 <sbp> utchy'm writing about Shakespeare
10:57:25 <xover> How was Argentina (or whichever latin amrican land it was where you alledgedly were alive and well)?
10:57:25 <sbp> as is my wont
10:57:39 <sbp> it was... silvery, I guess!
10:57:48 <sbp> on a bend sable
10:57:55 <sbp> how are ya?
10:58:18 * xover hates talking to sbp when he's high on The Bard; so confusing... :-)
10:58:23 <sbp> you've been here almost as seldomly as I have!
10:58:24 <sbp> hehe
10:58:42 <xover> Yeah, no, I've been kinda off IRC for a while.
10:58:53 <sbp> hope you're back on it now
10:59:03 <sbp> now is the time of our irc content!
10:59:18 <xover> The disk died on me and when I reconstructed its contents I managed to leave out the IRC logs.
10:59:24 <sbp> winter's gone. it's the new season of springsummer that we're having these days
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10:59:33 <sbp> oh dear!
10:59:44 <sbp> at least #swhack is logged
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11:00:23 <xover> Which was sufficent reason to put off setting up IRC again until niq badgered me by email. :-)
11:00:24 <sbp> what're you milieuing about recently? doing anything grand?
11:00:29 <sbp> heh, heh
11:00:31 <sbp> niq++
11:00:37 <xover> Yeah.
11:01:08 <xover> Og, much of the same. Working too much. Pissing off the WTF WG'ers. Same old, same old.
11:01:22 <sbp> yeah, I saw the WTF stuff in the logs
11:01:36 <sbp> i'faith, good fun is to be had there
11:01:40 <xover> So what've you been up to?
11:01:47 <sbp> mainly writing, as now
11:02:16 <sbp> scribblescribblescribble
11:02:25 <xover> Hmm. Which reminds me, I haven't checked your site in ages.
11:02:37 * xover wonders if he even recalls the url anymore.. :-(
11:02:39 <sbp> new things of note include Lo and Behold! and the Gallimaufry of Whits
11:02:48 <sbp> http://inamidst.com/lo/ and http://inamidst.com/whits/
11:03:27 <xover> Jeeze. “Sublunary”? This early in the morning?
11:03:45 <sbp> yeah...
11:03:54 <sbp> well it was probably evening when I contrived the tagline
11:04:05 <sbp> some consolation, perhaps
11:05:43 <xover> There should be a [oof] prefix.
11:05:56 <xover> And an [oaf] one.
11:05:57 <sbp> yeah. it should bolden things in the logs
11:06:01 <sbp> be the opposite of [off]
11:06:12 <sbp> what'd [oaf] do?
11:06:19 <sbp> <blink color="red">?
11:06:20 <xover> [oaf] You all suck!
11:07:08 <sbp> 'A joke amongst programmers is that the only correct use of blink tags is to write the sentence "Schrödinger's cat is <blink>not</blink> dead".'
11:07:09 <xover> Prolly act like a SGML general entity and insert “You all suck!” in blinking red in the data stream.
11:07:14 <sbp> - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blink_tag
11:08:02 <xover> Oh, wait. WOuld that be [troll]? No, they're sufficiently synonymous.
11:08:29 <sbp> I'm not sure. I think trolls have smaller feet than oafs
11:08:30 <sbp> oaves?
11:08:31 <xover> Ah, inserting a random trolling. “Perl rules, Python sucks!".
11:08:38 <sbp> noooOooOo
11:08:44 <sbp> even as a joke that is too harsh
11:09:02 <xover> Speaking of which.. Anyone familiar with the guts of Python's urllib2?
11:09:15 <sbp> unless it means that Perl is dom, whereas Python is willing to give you a bj any time of the day
11:09:26 <sbp> shudder... urllib2...
11:09:27 * xover likes the way sbp's mind works...
11:09:43 <KragenSitaker> urllib2 doesn't really have all that much guts
11:09:47 <sbp> urllib[2] and cgi are the shittiest Python stdlib modules
11:09:58 <KragenSitaker> it's only 1300loc
11:10:08 <xover> urllib2 accepts a proxy setting in the http_proxy env variable.
11:10:08 <KragenSitaker> 829 according to sloccount
11:10:25 <KragenSitaker> yeah, urllib2 is pretty bad, although better than urllib
11:10:36 <xover> And because the variable is 'http_' it knows that this is a proxy for the HTTP protocol (and puts it in a dict that way).
11:11:05 <xover> But it still requires you to put the 'http://' bit in the proxy address, and stacktraces on you if you forget it.
11:11:40 <sbp> what happens if you're in a CGI environment, where HTTP headers are passed through as envars with "HTTP_" prepended?
11:11:55 <sbp> couldn't people subvert the value of HTTP_PROXY in that case?
11:12:07 <sbp> OOH A SPLOIT
11:12:12 <xover> I'd think that's why it looks at the lowercase variant.
11:12:17 <sbp> ah
11:12:34 <KragenSitaker> i think that's just a coincidence, but if that weren't the case, presumably someone would have fixed the problem 10 years ago
11:12:55 <sbp> yeah. though if everyone thought that...
11:12:56 <sbp> :-)
11:13:24 <sbp> (if everyone thought that, nobody would even bother to try the sploit!)
11:13:32 <sbp> .gc sploit
11:13:34 <phenny> sploit: 73,100
11:13:37 <xover> Logic. It's... illogical.
11:13:52 <KragenSitaker> .gc spl0it
11:13:55 <phenny> spl0it: 3,050
11:13:57 <sbp> along with Ted Nelson's "malf", sploit has to be the greatest neologistic technological abbreviation
11:14:04 <xover> .gc metasploit
11:14:05 <KragenSitaker> malf?
11:14:07 <phenny> metasploit: 763,000
11:14:09 <bpt> .gc malf
11:14:09 <sbp> malf[unction]
11:14:11 <phenny> malf: 178,000
11:14:26 <sbp> "the malf opened a sploit"
11:14:29 <KragenSitaker> oh, the jargon file contains dozens of synonyms for malf
11:14:38 <sbp> oh?
11:14:42 <sbp> .g jargon file malf
11:14:44 <phenny> sbp: http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=12100.msg129367
11:14:49 <sbp> bad google
11:15:01 <KragenSitaker> .g jargon file broken
11:15:03 <phenny> KragenSitaker: http://speechcode.com/jargon/jargon.info.Top.html
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11:19:32 <xover> Does inamidts have a full content feed now?
11:19:47 <sbp> a full content feed? what'd that do/be?
11:19:50 <sbp> do be do be do
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11:19:56 <Monty> But what does jetscreamer have to do with the price of fish?
11:19:58 <phenny> Hush there, Monty.
11:20:02 <Monty> "nationalism ain't what about this... seems some point as possible...
11:20:40 <xover> So I can read it in my feed reader instead of switching to my web browser.
11:20:57 <sbp> you mean like an aggregate of all of the inamidst.com feeds?
11:21:32 <sbp> .gc twith
11:21:34 <phenny> twith: 71,200
11:21:35 <xover> No, just the content of posts instead of having just a blurb in the feed with a link to read the whole thing.
11:21:47 * xover should probably check the actual feed before asking...
11:22:55 <sbp> which posts are you talking about though?
11:22:55 <sbp> there are loads of weblogs on inamidst.com
11:22:56 <xover> All of them!
11:22:56 <sbp> all of them except for Changes and Updates have the whole content in the feed
11:22:56 <sbp> Changes and Updates does too really, because it's just a list of the pages which have been updated (and changed)
11:23:17 <xover> Where's the site feed map where you list all of `em for easy subscribing? :-)
11:23:18 <sbp> subscribing to Lo! and Whits will be most profitable these days
11:23:26 <sbp> that's a good idea
11:23:32 <sbp> I'll drop a note on the homepage!
11:23:50 <xover> Atually, there should be a meta-feed that let you subscribe to all new feeds as they appear!
11:24:07 <xover> And, no, I don't mean Planet! :-)
11:25:05 <xover> Heh heh. “sbp + jc: On Finnegans Wake”.
11:25:37 <sbp> yeah, shame that only had one post. I've had a few enquiries about On Finnegans Wake
11:25:44 <sbp> people asking what the hell happened to it
11:26:01 <xover> Blame it on jcowan.
11:26:30 <sbp> for anyone coming across these logs wondering the same thing: what happened to it is that jcowan was completely stumped by my first question. on the one hand I feel smug to have proven jcowan wrong, but on the other (more overbearing) hand, it's a huge bugger that he didn't get into it
11:26:50 <sbp> [[[
11:26:51 <sbp> Subscriptions
11:26:51 <sbp> Most of the fun on inamidst.com is currently taking place in two different places: point your feed reader to Lo! and Whits to follow along.
11:26:52 <sbp> ]]]
11:26:58 <sbp> with Lo! and Whits linked to the relevant feeds
11:27:01 <sbp> - inamidst.com
11:27:29 <xover> Cool. Now make /feedmap/ that has links to all other feeds on the site.
11:28:05 * xover uses his hypnotic “Do As I COmmand Or Ye Shall Become Very Sleepy Indeed” stare...
11:28:17 <sbp> you know, I want more than that actually...
11:28:25 <jetscreamer> zZz
11:28:34 <sbp> I should have a really decent search function so that you can list all pages of certain type, with whatever content, etc.
11:28:42 <xover> jetscreamer: Yeah, that's about the response I usually get. :-)
11:28:49 <sbp> I've tried a few things out along those lines, but they've generally sucked
11:29:03 <sbp> so yeah, I should probably just make a feedmap somewhere. hang on a moment then
11:29:17 <sbp> . o O { how do I find all the feeds myself? }
11:29:37 <xover> heh heh
11:31:09 <bpt> .g site:inamidst.com filetype:atom
11:31:09 <sbp> good idea. also grepping for the mime type has worked wonders
11:31:09 <sbp> compiling now
11:31:12 <phenny> bpt: http://inamidst.com/notes/index.atom
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11:36:26 <sbp> xover: http://inamidst.com/topic/feedmap
11:36:28 <sbp> I think that's complete
11:39:21 <bpt> .gc daytide
11:39:23 <phenny> daytide: 2,260
11:39:50 <bpt> .ety daytide
11:39:52 <sbp> mmm... Keats
11:39:52 <phenny> Can't find the etymology for "daytide". Try http://etymonline.com/?search=daytide
11:39:59 <xover> ah, thanks
11:40:57 <sbp> :-)
11:41:51 <xover> Ah, had them all except “Strange Strands”.
11:42:14 <xover> My sbp folder now has 9 feeds... :-)
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11:42:18 <sbp> Strands was boring. dormant now, but expect occasional posts
11:42:21 <sbp> whee!
11:42:29 <sbp> 6 on inamidst.com... miscoranda...
11:42:30 <sbp> hmm
11:42:38 * sbp tries to figure out the other two
11:43:04 <sbp> On Finnegans Wake?
11:43:09 <xover> yep
11:43:13 <sbp> that leaves one...
11:44:03 <xover> Oh, actually, I lie. There's a duplicate (a changed URL at some point I think) in there.
11:44:04 * sbp boggles a bit
11:44:06 <sbp> ah!
11:44:09 <sbp> phew, thanks
11:44:12 <xover> heh heh
11:44:34 <sbp> I'll have to call the next "Revolution 9"
11:44:35 <xover> It's disconcerting when your split personalities create blogs of which you are not aware.
11:44:40 <sbp> yeah
11:46:03 <sbp> what about you? why is neutrino still lipsumming at me?
11:46:19 <sbp> (funny how that sentence actually makes sense to the initiated)
11:47:36 <xover> heh heh
11:47:46 <xover> I ran out of time to do anything about it.
11:48:09 <sbp> any time coming up for it?
11:48:17 <xover> Not in the near term, no.
11:48:24 <sbp> bah
11:48:27 <sbp> we need to fork() you
11:48:38 <xover> Copy-on-write?
11:49:26 * sbp tries to apply Wikipedia's description of COW to working/writing a blog
11:50:21 <sbp> something where you copied all your public mail to a weblog would be fun
11:50:26 <sbp> sorta like jcowan was planning once
11:52:05 <xover> My public mail is not as copious as it once was, and far less profound than I once imagined it to be. :-)
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11:52:36 <sbp> you must do some of it though, to tweak il wtf
11:52:40 <sbp> yo chimezie
11:52:54 <chimezie> hey sbp
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11:59:11 <jetscreamer> brick walls?
11:59:29 <sbp> hmm? OLM?
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12:10:52 <sbp> [of] if it goes wrong, we're going to have to put up with the shit for years
12:11:08 <sbp> [o] dear
12:27:39 <KragenSitaker> at least in the html world we don't have dave winer
12:27:45 <sbp> heh, heh
12:28:05 <KragenSitaker> i'd better go --- i'm hoping to go to centrolibre today
12:28:12 <sbp> .wik Centrolibre
12:28:15 <phenny> Can't find anything in Wikipedia for "Centrolibre".
12:28:24 <sbp> I hope you enjoy whatever it is
12:28:31 <sbp> unless you're hoping not to enjoy it
12:28:33 <KragenSitaker> .g centrolibre
12:28:36 <phenny> KragenSitaker: http://centrolibre.gulbac.usla.org.ar/
12:28:51 <KragenSitaker> ha, that's an awesome domain name
12:29:10 * sbp runs it through GoogleT
12:29:43 <sbp> "educative y economic of this sociocultural movimiento"
12:53:09 <sbp> when does the HTML5 survey end? http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Apr/1604
12:58:02 <xover> sbp: It ended this morning (23:59 last night Boston time).
12:58:32 <sbp> yeah, I see the results now
12:58:36 <sbp> note that you voted
12:58:39 <sbp> and Gregory, interestingly!
12:59:44 <Arnia> Every little vote counts... except in Scotland
12:59:48 <sbp> hehe
13:01:15 <sbp> hmm, the only "no" to Hixie editing was by Dominik Tomaszuk
13:01:37 <Arnia> Let him do it... it will make him happy
13:02:27 <Arnia> if the standard works well afterwards, great. We have a better hypertext. If it doesn't, no problem. I can push for a non-web tainted semantic system :p
13:02:53 <sbp> no Bjoern in the WG, I note
13:04:34 <Arnia> Mm.. forget duck soup and tag soup... Sowa wants knowledge soup!
13:04:43 * Arnia sees the point though
13:06:45 <Arnia> mm... it is the Seven's town and gown today
13:07:01 * Arnia should really head down to Maiden Castle and watch
13:07:23 <Arnia> But I think the full rugby match of Leicester vs Bristol will be more interesting
13:08:15 <Arnia> Oh, sbp, http://amine-platform.sourceforge.net/
13:08:37 <sbp> ...
13:08:44 <sbp> it lost me at the second word
13:08:47 <sbp> splain?
13:09:35 <Arnia> A weird and very confusingly described software platform for reasoning with conceptual graphs and cognitive metaphor
13:10:03 <Arnia> Intended to be 'pluggable' in terms of representation formalism so CGs is just one of several
13:10:08 <Arnia> (as far as I can tell)
13:11:57 <sbp> ah, apropos of Sowa
13:12:10 <Arnia> yes
13:12:30 <sbp> I haven't done any work with CGs, except in investigating them w.r.t. the Semantic Web
13:13:11 <Arnia> The work I've done with them has all been in the guise of image schemas in cognitive semantics
13:13:24 <Arnia> I'm looking for a formalism of image schemas
13:13:44 <Arnia> Any formalism will do *turns that into a new Webber and Rice musical*
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13:58:42 <Monty> howdy, kpreid
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14:33:41 <sbp> weird, Wikipedia is returning zero length pages
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14:51:10 <Monty> it's tommorris!
14:53:10 <sbp> fixed now
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15:23:48 <perigrin> sbp++ # somehow fixing wikipedia!
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15:40:44 <jsled> sbp: http://www.boingboing.net/2007/05/05/plugin_lets_you_use_.html has Gimp-ese for that Match Color business. I don't recall if it was linked from the urls we were looking at earlier.
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16:01:30 <sbp> jsled: ah, thanks! hey, in today's Boing Boing too. shows I don't read it
16:02:08 <jsled> I usually question why I do.
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16:14:42 <rob1n> i found that boing boing has too much noise for me
16:15:06 <rob1n> i had it in my feed reader for a while, but it soon was removed because i couldn't go thorugh 80 posts a day of things I don't care for :\
16:15:52 <perigrin> I've discovered I can't go through my feed reader every day because I just don't care about the world.
16:16:05 <jsled> heh.
16:16:25 <jsled> Ah good. gnome bugzilla has renamed the two search forms "Short" and "Complicated". <http://bugzilla.gnome.org/query.cgi>
16:16:33 <rob1n> i've trimmed my subscriptions way down. i used to have ~500 items waiting for me every day
16:16:36 <jsled> Which is better than "simple" and "advanced", I think. :)
16:16:40 <jsled> Only 500. :)
16:16:58 <rob1n> i started getting distracted after about 300 ;)
16:17:02 <jsled> I have 500 *feeds*.
16:17:07 <jsled> (no, just kidding.)
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16:20:23 <jsled> My problem with BB is more that they update the update date on posts seemingly spuriously.
16:21:09 <jsled> Though I ugess I could fix that in bloglines...
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16:38:16 * sbp tries to find a(nother) facsimile of Venus and Adonis, 1593 edition (specifically), online...
16:38:33 <sbp> major bonus points to anyone who manages to find such a thing. photographic reproduction only
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16:43:56 <bancus> Who painted it?
16:45:27 <xover> s/paint/wrote/
16:45:33 <xover> And do you really need to ask?
16:45:37 <bancus> Um, yeah.
16:45:52 <xover> Given it was sbp that requested it? :-)
16:46:03 <bancus> Sorry, I don't know much about sbp's artistic tastse.
16:46:12 <xover> heh heh
16:46:18 <xover> .g "Venus and Adonis"
16:46:22 <phenny> xover: http://www.online-mythology.com/venus_adonis/
16:46:24 <xover> Actually...
16:46:25 <sbp> .wik Venus and Adonis
16:46:28 <phenny> "Venus and Adonis, a classical myth, was a common subject for art during the Renaissance and Baroque eras." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_and_Adonis
16:46:29 <xover> Yeah
16:46:34 <sbp> .wik Venus and Adonis (poem)
16:46:38 <phenny> "Venus and Adonis is one of Shakespeare's three longer poems." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_and_Adonis_(Shakespeare_poem)
16:46:38 <sbp> we'll get there eventually!
16:46:42 <sbp> there we go
16:46:43 <xover> heh heh
16:46:44 <bancus> Aha.
16:47:02 * xover doesn't really get why there are so few high-res scans available online...
16:47:07 <sbp> three?
16:47:18 * sbp wonders what they're counting as the other. Phoenix and Turtle?
16:47:27 <sbp> Passionate Pilgrim?
16:47:39 <sbp> yeah, the scan situation really bugs me
16:47:41 <sbp> .g EEBO
16:47:43 <phenny> sbp: http://eebo.chadwyck.com/
16:47:54 <sbp> that's the best site available, but it's behind the usual academic authentication doors
16:48:03 <sbp> so the general public can't make use of its awesome, awesome collection
16:48:11 <sbp> that's where I found the first 1593 V&A edition
16:48:16 <sbp> but it's missing the dedication, and I'm wondering why
16:48:46 <xover> A previously undiscovered variant? :-)
16:48:56 <kpreid> http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2007/04/11/resistors-400-pixels-long/
16:48:58 <phenny> kpreid: 08:19Z <sbp> tell kpreid yeah, expected breakage. will last for a couple of days at the most
16:49:33 <sbp> well, that's what I'm wondering--almost. the thing is that pretty much nothing like this goes unnoticed in Shakespeare scholarship. really the tiniest little jots and tittles get uncovered
16:49:40 <bancus> Heh.
16:49:43 <bancus> I've read parts of this.
16:49:46 <bancus> I had no idea what it was.
16:49:58 <xover> Titties?
16:50:39 <sbp> The Passionate Pilgrim is a good case in point: distinguishing between the first and second editions was a marvellous, marvellous piece of scholarship
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16:50:55 * sbp wonders if A Lover's Complaint is the fabled "third poem"
16:51:48 <sbp> it's longer than the Phoenix and Turtle, but is generally regarded more likely spurious than it (and less spurious than TPP of course). on the other hand, I think ALC is obviously, obviously Shakespearean
16:53:50 <sbp> kpreid: awesome
16:55:00 <sbp> hmm
16:55:20 <sbp> in 1885, the the 1593 edition of V&A that Malone bought as thought to be unique
16:55:29 <xover> sbp: <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:SonnetsDedication.jpg>?
16:56:03 <sbp> hmm, Frances Wolfriston owned one apparently. wonder if that's a different one
16:56:20 <sbp> nah, that's probably to the Sonnets. without looking. just a, you know, wild guess :-)
16:56:29 <sbp> the Sonnets were published in 1609 by Thomas Thorpe
16:56:41 * xover was under the impression they were bundled...
16:56:43 <sbp> V&A 1593 was by, I think, Richard Field
16:57:01 <sbp> the Sonnets were bundled with A Lover's Complaint
16:58:00 <sbp> hmm!
16:58:07 <sbp> "and history is indebted to her for the first edition of Venus and Adonis (1593), a unique copy later owned by Edmund Malone and now in the Bodleian Library" - http://www.folger.edu/html/exhibitions/thys_boke/frances.asp
16:58:14 <sbp> this is getting increasingly frustrating
16:58:37 <sbp> Frances Wolfreston's copy was Malone's copy, and it seems that the Folger say it's unique...
16:58:52 <sbp> so let's see what the EEBO copy is...
16:59:58 <sbp> "Bodleian Library", so that must be the Wolfreston/Malone copy
17:01:34 <sbp> ah! there's bleed through on the page before the text that doesn't correspond with the title page
17:01:38 <sbp> might be the dedication
17:01:48 <sbp> I've certainly found textual variants from the 1594 dedication online
17:02:00 <sbp> for example "mee" (1593) in place of "me" (1594)
17:02:25 <sbp> regularising to modern spelling happens unexpectedly, but not vice versa!
17:03:00 <sbp> fancy missing out scanning the dedication, if they did so!
17:03:15 <sbp> whoever did that needs to think long and hard about what they did
17:03:23 <sbp> and sit in a corner with the old "D" hat on
17:04:44 <xover> Perhaps the page was (already) missing?
17:05:08 <sbp> unlikely. if someone knicked a page out of it, it'd make the news
17:05:30 *** tommorris_ has quit ()
17:05:44 <sbp> and there are digital facsimiles of it:
17:05:45 <sbp> http://www.fh-augsburg.de/~harsch/anglica/Chronology/16thC/Shakespeare/sha_vade.jpg
17:05:49 <xover> Does the wayback machine have cnn.com for 1593?
17:05:54 <sbp> just not in context with the rest of the work
17:05:55 <sbp> hehe
17:06:56 <sbp> nice high-quality scan of the Lucrece dedication here:
17:06:57 <sbp> http://www.hudsonshakespeare.org/images/Shake%20images/lucrece%20dedication..JPG
17:07:30 <sbp> ...timmy? http://www.hudsonshakespeare.org/images/Shake%20images/timmy.jpg
17:08:20 <xover> Ah, the Tit Quarto.
17:08:42 * xover is vaguely disappointed by <http://www.hudsonshakespeare.org/images/Shake%20images/tit%20quarto.jpg>...
17:09:38 <xover> Og dear lord. Tymon -> Timmy!? Yeah, that's... uhm. “Familiar”...
17:10:11 <sbp> it's something alright
17:10:29 <sbp> is it me or does the penultimate word in http://www.folger.edu/html/exhibitions/thys_boke/images/EXH0049.jpg read "her"
17:10:37 <sbp> ?
17:10:42 <sbp> it's transcribed "hor"
17:11:19 <sbp> .gc "frances wolfreston, hor bouk"
17:11:21 <phenny> "frances wolfreston, hor bouk": 6
17:11:22 <sbp> .gc "frances wolfreston, her bouk"
17:11:24 <phenny> "frances wolfreston, her bouk": 0
17:11:44 <xover> Certainly looks like an 'e' to me.
17:11:58 <sbp> I mean, compare it to the o in bouk, and the e in wolfreston especially
17:12:01 <sbp> seems quite obvious
17:12:29 <sbp> as usual, no contact address on the page
17:12:49 <xover> The three other 'o's seem quite consistent, yes.
17:13:08 <sbp> though the copyright symbol (for that fiddly, actually public domain in the United States because it's a facsimile of a copyright expired work, little image!) is linked
17:13:43 <sbp> mistranscription, mislicensing... this *really* bugs me
17:13:48 *** cre8radix_ is now known as cre8radix
17:14:06 <sbp> they have phone numbers. I should ring 'em, heh
17:14:20 <sbp> ranting and raving about a single mistranscribed character. that'd be great
17:16:13 <jsled> Split over two answering-machine messages.
17:16:21 <xover> Hmm. Why doesn't ODL have this stuff?
17:16:28 <sbp> still, a single mistranscribed character can make a huge difference
17:16:30 <sbp> ODL?
17:16:33 <sbp> jsled: bwahaha, yeah
17:16:42 <xover> Oxford Digital..
17:16:55 <sbp> http://www.odl.ox.ac.uk/
17:16:56 <sbp> ah
17:17:31 *** perigrin has quit ("Sleep per chance to ... zzzz *snork* zzzz")
17:17:52 <xover> They have various "Early Manuscripts", Bacon, etc. But apparently none of the bard.
17:17:56 <sbp> yeah, hmm
17:18:17 <sbp> I did find a photo of the title page somewhere on an Oxford site
17:18:21 <sbp> nothing inside though
17:18:41 <xover> cf. eg. http://image.ox.ac.uk/images/bodleian/msdigby76/1r.jpg
17:19:07 <sbp> http://users.ox.ac.uk/~lina0897/emwo/images/big/venus_adonis.jpg
17:19:18 <sbp> hey, you can see Wolfreston's inscription
17:19:33 <sbp> and funnily enough, it looks like it says "hor". hrh
17:19:37 <xover> heh heh
17:19:39 <sbp> s/rh/eh/
17:19:52 <sbp> good though that typo was
17:20:05 <kpreid> "The bulky packaging does push up shipping fees, but there's nothing that can be done about that; under-packaged NIB magnets are likely to nail themselves to some postal sorting machinery or the inside of a delivery truck and never make it to your door."
17:20:10 <sbp> hmm, you can almost see the text underneath the page...
17:27:06 * xover ponders the feasability of getting the majority of Shaks digitized and online...
17:27:56 <xover> It should be sufficiently sexy to garner financing and interest quite easily.
17:28:01 <sbp> yeah, I've been thinking about that for a while now
17:28:20 <sbp> I actually approached Jimmy Wales about it, and he seemed interested
17:28:28 <sbp> until kandinski doofused it up. perhaps I should email him again
17:29:05 <xover> It'd be interesting to chat with the Administrator of, say, the Bodleian; and possibly the folks at Folger.
17:29:17 <sbp> indeed
17:29:25 <sbp> and the British Library
17:29:45 *** jetscreamer has quit ("Love conquers all things except poverty and toothache. --Mae West")
17:29:49 <sbp> and Longleat House...
17:30:36 <xover> Hmm. Should probably start with writing up a proposal.
17:30:49 <sbp> Dear People,
17:31:07 <sbp> Digitise every contemporary manuscript about Shakespeare, and put them online, public domain.
17:31:13 <xover> Then arrange meatspace meeting with a couple of the brick&mortar libraries of relevance.
17:31:19 <sbp> Yours most bounded,
17:31:23 <sbp> er, Bounden,
17:31:27 <sbp> &c.
17:31:54 <xover> Then you probably need to attack funding.
17:32:00 <sbp> I already spoke to someone about digitising a Second Folio, actually
17:32:06 <sbp> who gave me a gameplan for going forward
17:32:15 <sbp> trouble is, I can't pursue that until later this year at least
17:32:19 <sbp> which is a bit of a bugger
17:32:24 <xover> I wonder what would happen if I showed up at Bodleian with a digicam...
17:32:27 <sbp> so that's a possible route, anyway
17:32:42 <sbp> heh. I did that at my local library when I found out they didn't have a photocopier because of budget reasons
17:32:51 <xover> They'd probably take one look at the evil soulsucking machine and sic their shaman on me.
17:32:53 <sbp> and they had to ring up the head library to ask for special permission to use it
17:33:06 <sbp> it was crazy. they had a photocopier there before and anyone could use it
17:33:16 <sbp> if they still had the money for one, people would still be able to use it
17:33:29 <sbp> and yet a digital camera was considered different for some reason (coughtechnophobiacough)
17:33:35 <sbp> ah well. at least they let me use it
17:33:54 <sbp> it's a recurring strand everywhere you go, though
17:34:03 <xover> Hmm. There's some fun techno aspects to that kiond of project too.
17:34:21 <sbp> yeah, none of which I'm qualified for. tend to learn quickly though
17:34:28 <sbp> and the online exposition is something I could do, of course
17:34:51 <xover> Link from the Proj Guten type text to the image of the page in question, say.
17:34:56 <sbp> handling archival material I have very little experience with, though. can't be too hard, I suspect, but digitising must be very difficult...
17:36:10 <sbp> yeah, if Project Gutenburg were public domain!
17:36:11 <sbp> instead it has that stupid fifty page license declaration
17:36:11 <sbp> there's this thing called the "Moby Public Domain Edition of Shakespeare"
17:36:11 <sbp> but it sucks ass
17:36:11 <sbp> really you want a public domain version of the *original spelling* edition
17:36:11 <xover> Well, one could transcribe the newly digitized pictures.
17:36:11 <sbp> since the ways that modern editors cack Shakespeare up are innumerable
17:36:17 <sbp> yeah... time consuming though. would require more people than the digitisation, probably
17:36:27 <sbp> still, if you're running, run the gamut
17:36:32 <xover> The Shaks buffs would love it, and love to nitpick about it afterwards.
17:36:39 <xover> Cheap quality assurance.
17:36:43 <sbp> could have people sponsoring a page or something
17:36:55 <xover> Hmm. Bandwidth costs.
17:37:05 <sbp> bandwidth is very cheap
17:37:19 <xover> Not when you're serving this kinds of gigabytage...
17:37:37 <sbp> sure, if you're on an academic server (or manxome; heh)
17:38:02 <sbp> plenty of sites already have a little Shakespeare...
17:38:09 <sbp> the best is the British Library quartos online
17:38:12 <sbp> they're really, really good
17:38:28 <sbp> invaluable site, too. I've been there many times--shows that the endeavour would be worthwhile
17:38:33 <xover> Anyone collect them al for finding and for coverage analysis?
17:38:44 <sbp> collect all of the quartos?
17:38:51 <sbp> I don't think a survey of the quartos has been done
17:38:53 <xover> The bits that are online.
17:38:56 <sbp> there's been a first f... ah
17:39:04 <sbp> I took a few notes, but far from extensive
17:39:11 <sbp> and nobody else has done, as far as I know
17:39:20 <xover> Particularly coverage would be useful.
17:39:28 <sbp> coverage and quality
17:39:35 <xover> certainly
17:39:51 <sbp> of both the works and the digitisations...
17:40:07 <sbp> the best thing would be super, super digitisations of Hand D in Sir Thomas More
17:40:11 <sbp> that would be *rad*
17:41:28 <sbp> oh shit, it's... wait. oh no, it is. damn
17:41:41 <xover> ?
17:41:43 <sbp> missed Have I Got News For You last night
17:41:50 <xover> ?
17:41:55 <sbp> forgot it was Friday. good TV show
17:48:00 <xover> Hmm.
17:48:05 *** chimezie has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17:48:31 <xover> There was that webby timeline-in-html/svg/js/whatever... The demo was the JFK hit iirc.
17:48:52 <sbp> There? Where?
17:48:56 <xover> Apply that for each book, maybe showing who had it when.
17:49:11 <xover> And overall to show likely publishing dates, editions, etc.
17:49:11 <sbp> yeah, that'd be nice
17:49:29 <sbp> there have been some good books devoted to this sort of thing
17:49:44 <sbp> Schoenbaum's Records and Images is canonical. that's a seriously, seriously good book
17:49:53 <xover> Yeah. Get all that stuff online and interactive.
17:50:05 * sbp has a copy lying about, sadly only borrowed; copies are hella expensive
17:50:27 *** piotch (n=piotch@82.201.198.249) has joined #swhack
17:51:01 <sbp> (it's huge)
17:51:11 <sbp> (nice paper, too)
17:51:23 <sbp> you know, in general...:
17:51:27 <sbp> Schoenbaum+++
17:51:38 <sbp> nobody is more deserving of three pluses in this context
17:52:11 <sbp> you know what the tragedy is?
17:52:17 <sbp> I don't think he even has a Wikipedia entry
17:52:26 <sbp> and *I* can't find enough information about him to make one
17:53:40 <sbp> screw it, I'm making one. I'll just put as much as I can find
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17:53:48 <sbp> no way that guy can't have a Wikipedia entry
17:53:55 *** martiancode (n=martianc@unaffiliated/martiancode) has joined #swhack
17:59:37 <deltab> Doctor Who starting now
17:59:52 <sbp> I hate Doctor Who
17:59:54 <phenny> sbp: 17:56Z <Morbus> tell sbp that i'm canceling my world of warcraft account today.
17:59:59 <sbp> the current season is terrible
18:00:02 <bancus> gasp
18:00:05 <Morbus> see #d8uv too.
18:00:07 <bancus> But, yeah.
18:00:07 <sbp> I actually detest it. it's cack
18:00:18 <bancus> I have to agree, sadly.
18:00:21 <sbp> given how absolutely wonderful the show has been in the past, it's a huge disappointment
18:00:25 <bancus> I still watch, hoping that it'll turn itself around.
18:00:32 * sbp grew up in the Sylvester McCoy days
18:00:45 <sbp> yeah... I think it might be best to just wait for the next doctor
18:00:51 <sbp> (Alan Davies! please!)
18:00:55 <sbp> (please!!)
18:01:16 <bancus> I don't mind this doctor, but the writing is getting on my nerves.
18:01:23 <bancus> The doctor doesn't need a goddamned love interest.
18:01:34 <sbp> yeah, actually Tennant isn't *too* bad
18:01:36 <bancus> He's spent centuries alone, why does he get lonely now?
18:01:37 *** jetscreamer (n=jetscrea@unaffiliated/jetscreamer) has joined #swhack
18:01:43 <sbp> I prefer him to Ecclestone. but you're right, the writing... good grief
18:01:57 <bancus> Although I kinda liked the thing with Rose, but it did kinda build up.
18:02:08 <bancus> They're not even prentending with this new girl.
18:02:17 * sbp goes about Wikipedia linking as many instances of Samuel Schoenbaum as he can find
18:02:18 *** bjoern_ (n=bjoern@dslb-084-056-212-031.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #swhack
18:02:26 <sbp> (help appreciated! make sure it's the Shakespeare scholar)
18:02:30 <sbp> yo bjoern_!
18:02:51 <bjoern_> sbp!
18:09:44 <sbp> ooh, I got to edit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Shakespeare (for the second time. circa my ass!)
18:12:53 * bancus circas sbp's ass.
18:13:21 <sbp> aw man
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18:28:24 <bjoern_> Hmm I sense yesterdays great perturbance of the force in the html wg has yet to come to a conclusion...
18:28:35 * xover notes Wikipedia cites sbp on Voynich...
18:28:47 <bjoern_> yo xover
18:28:55 <xover> yo
18:28:56 <sbp> heh, yeah
18:29:39 <xover> Ah, and new happenings this April. But none miraculous it seems.
18:30:33 * bjoern_ thinks german wikipedia cites him on alt text and some other things
18:32:15 *** thelsdj (n=thelsdj@ip24-251-207-135.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #swhack
18:37:59 <sbp> alt text?
18:38:33 <bjoern_> ALT="BLUECIRCLE.GIF (4932 bytes)"
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18:39:01 <sbp> how does it cite you on that?
18:40:50 * sbp uses the northwestern.edu permissions form brusquely to ask for permission to use an image of SS on Wikipedia
18:41:01 <sbp> not so brusque as terse
18:41:16 <sbp> the conditions requesting payment and so forth are just bizarre
18:41:21 <bjoern_> they linked my http://www.bjoernsworld.de/html/alt-text.html
18:41:41 <sbp> all I want to do is use a not all that great, miniscule digital image on Wikipedia
18:41:46 <bjoern_> I can't find the page right now though, maybe they don't anymore...
18:41:49 <sbp> it has surely no intrinsic value
18:41:52 <sbp> ah
18:42:09 *** sbp changed the topic to: "Wofür gibt es das ALT Attribut überhaupt?"
18:42:28 <sbp> What for giblets is the ALT attribute overly haughty?
18:43:05 *** alienbrain__ (n=alienbra@213.212.193.15) has joined #swhack
18:43:43 <sbp> nice design
18:44:18 <bjoern_> What for exists the ALT attribute at all
18:44:44 <bjoern_> Thanks. It's been copied many times since I made it in 1999.
18:46:07 <sbp> oh, that's why the web looks the way it does
18:46:18 <bjoern_> hehe
18:48:43 <sbp> so, nobody gonna help me with this, then?
18:48:43 <sbp> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Schoenbaum
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19:04:51 *** LightMoon (n=LightMoo@86.34.164.200) has joined #swhack
19:04:51 <Monty> howdy, LightMoon
19:04:57 <LightMoon> hi
19:05:01 <LightMoon> need help pls
19:05:09 <sbp> hi LightMoon
19:05:13 <LightMoon> hi
19:05:18 <sbp> wut u need help wit?
19:05:26 <LightMoon> i need scan bug/dork
19:05:31 <LightMoon> arhive
19:05:32 <LightMoon> :D
19:05:37 <sbp> we have lemon bugdork
19:05:39 <sbp> is u?
19:06:05 <sbp> LightMoon??
19:06:08 <LightMoon> i dont have the arhive
19:06:17 <sbp> answer is u lemon bugdork hav?
19:06:21 <sbp> pls answer
19:06:23 <sbp> pls
19:06:31 <sbp> pls answer KightMoon
19:06:36 <LightMoon> no
19:06:46 <bjoern_> y?
19:07:08 <LightMoon> please give me the wget scanner bug/dork
19:07:45 <LightMoon> sbp
19:08:05 <sbp> i hav the lemon wget snanner bugdork
19:08:08 <sbp> LightMoon
19:08:12 <sbp> u want dat?
19:08:19 <LightMoon> yes
19:08:21 <sbp> lemon bugdork. very good yes please
19:08:24 <LightMoon> pls geve me
19:08:34 <sbp> lemony snicket yes please
19:08:39 <sbp> pls pls pls
19:08:44 <LightMoon> k
19:08:44 <LightMoon> k
19:08:48 <sbp> bugdork
19:08:49 <sbp> lemon
19:08:51 <sbp> snicket
19:08:51 <LightMoon> k
19:08:54 <sbp> yes please, k
19:09:01 <LightMoon> bugdork
19:09:02 <LightMoon> :D
19:09:06 <LightMoon> geve me the wget
19:09:06 <sbp> budgork
19:09:16 <sbp> gaven hem the wget lemony snicket
19:09:25 <LightMoon> k
19:09:28 <LightMoon> give me
19:09:36 <sbp> Monty give LightMoon the lemoy snicket k give him snanner bugdork??
19:09:37 <Monty> Bah... I only reason
19:09:42 <jsled> LightMoon: http://pastebin.ca/472665
19:09:45 <sbp> Monty only reason k
19:09:49 <Monty> ok, gonna help in explorer, can really I re-wrote the wtfwg.
19:10:16 <jsled> its hi-ryle compresd. i hope u can dekodde.
19:10:35 <sbp> bugdork hi-ryle lemony k pls pls
19:10:47 <sbp> LightMoon: jsled geve you the lemon bugdork
19:10:52 <sbp> thx jsled
19:10:59 <LightMoon> sbp
19:11:11 <LightMoon> i need scanner bugdork for bot
19:11:45 <LightMoon> !scan /modules/My_eGallery/public/displayCategory.php?basepath=
19:11:46 <swhask> Maybe you meant: seen slap
19:12:10 <jsled> !slap sbp
19:12:11 <swhask> Not enough privileges
19:12:39 *** LightMoon has quit ()
19:12:53 <sbp> awesome
19:13:03 <sbp> jsled: so what the hell was that?
19:13:08 <sbp> I just decoded it, but can't work it out
19:13:14 <sbp> tried it as an image, but no dice
19:13:22 <bjoern_> OMG A SUIRREL DESPLODES MY GRABSED TREE FILZE
19:13:36 <sbp> hehe
19:14:20 <sbp> been a long time since one of those dropped by
19:14:47 *** sbp changed the topic to: "<LightMoon> i need scan bug/dork"
19:14:56 <bjoern_> I think you attract them here sbp.
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19:15:09 <sbp> not me, him!
19:15:11 * sbp points
19:17:11 <sbp> !slap kpreid
19:17:13 * swhask slaps kpreid
19:17:19 <sbp> !slap jsled
19:17:20 *** rob1n (n=rob1n@unaffiliated/rob1n) has joined #swhack
19:17:20 <swhask> why on earth would I slap jsled
19:17:29 <jsled> THAT"S RIGHT»
19:17:33 <sbp> because he's a s00pern00b!
19:17:41 <sbp> !slap jsled
19:17:42 * swhask slaps jsled
19:17:45 <sbp> WHOO
19:17:49 <sbp> it listens. awesome
19:18:50 <sbp> .gc wget bug/dork
19:18:52 <phenny> wget bug/dork: 0
19:20:34 <bjoern_> Yeah I could not really figure that out either...
19:20:59 <sbp> his meaning is impregnable
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19:45:06 <xover> sbp: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/Samuel_Schoenbaum
19:46:05 <sbp> ah, you did a couple! thanks!
19:46:36 <xover> And discovered that Wikipedia's notes references and citations generally suck dogs.
19:46:40 <sbp> I skipped The Reven... yeah
19:46:50 <sbp> because it sucks. doesn't mention which book the quote is from etc.
19:47:13 <sbp> 16 pages. not bad
19:47:23 <xover> The sad thing is, they seem to have some nice wikimarkup for dealing with it; stuff I'd like to see in HTML, incidentally.
19:48:04 <sbp> <ref>?
19:49:23 <xover> brb, phone
20:02:15 *** schepers (n=schepers@208-38-57-47.ip.cal.radiant.net) has joined #swhack
20:16:45 <sbp> .gc "an ounce of black shag"
20:16:48 <phenny> "an ounce of black shag": 2
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21:29:21 <bpt> .ety kit
21:29:23 <phenny> "'round wooden tub,' 1275, probably from M.Du. kitte 'jug, tankard, wooden container,' of unknown origin." - http://etymonline.com/?term=kit
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21:38:39 <kpreid> °°°
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21:47:08 <deltab> kpreid: set IB to the amount to Increase By, so -1 to decrement
21:48:18 <kpreid> Okay, got that. Now what should I set PK, QF, and XJ to?
21:51:07 <deltab> kpreid: there aren't any variables with those names in the bookmarklet you gave
21:52:14 <deltab> sbp: don't get too attached to unpacking in parameter lists: it's going to be removed
21:55:11 <kpreid> deltab: oh, I thought you were talking to the wrong person :)
21:55:46 <kpreid> long ago I made a version with IB = -1, and it doesn't handle zeros correctly
21:55:48 <kpreid> deltab: did you try it?
21:55:51 <kpreid> it turns 10 into 1-1
21:59:14 <deltab> ah, then you need a % 10
21:59:24 <deltab> or something
21:59:31 <deltab> probably something
22:03:18 *** chimezie (n=chimezie@adsl-76-205-108-85.dsl.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net) has joined #swhack
22:03:18 <Monty> Speak of the devil, it's chimezie!
22:07:11 <bjoern_> hrm, is this sensible api design:
22:07:58 <bjoern_> I have a function that takes a string and a patter and tells whether the string matches the pattern, and if not, where the error occured
22:08:56 <bjoern_> So it returns an integer; 0 if there was an internal error, x + 1 if the string matches, and -( x + 1 ) if it does not, where x is the number of characters read
22:09:26 <deltab> kpreid: does it turn 19 into 110?
22:09:30 <kpreid> what does the n. of c. r. mean in match failure?
22:09:32 <kpreid> deltab: no
22:10:30 <bjoern_> so error handling code would be if (rc > 0) -> valid else if (rc == 0) -> internal error else printf error at (-rc)
22:10:56 <bjoern_> I could also simply not report how many chars were matched in case of success...
22:11:16 <bjoern_> the main problem is with empty strings
22:11:37 <kpreid> aha
22:11:42 <deltab> are you limited to returning one int?
22:11:49 <bjoern_> basically yes
22:12:12 <deltab> no exceptions?
22:12:38 <bjoern_> (you would need to branch, if -rc - 1 == len -> whole string does not match, otherwise fails to match at -rc chars)
22:12:41 <bjoern_> no, it's in C
22:13:17 <bjoern_> I am free to design it in any way I chose of course, but integer return codes would be best
22:14:04 <deltab> you could take the address of a variable to store the number of characters read in
22:14:52 <deltab> and just return whether there was a match
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22:22:04 <bjoern_> Well what I'd like best would be to say "positive -> matches, negative does not match", but there is no -0 and I would have no fatal error code...
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22:51:36 * xover goes off to watch Stargate for some more grounded realism and plausible stories...
22:52:05 <jsled> LOL.
22:52:26 <jetscreamer> xover: but they're all reruns...
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23:10:05 <bjoern_> Oh, which episodes?
23:11:14 <xover> 9x17 - The Scourge
23:12:13 <bjoern_> Oh, that one is spooky
23:12:41 * xover hates bugs...
23:13:33 * bjoern_ too, but it's gotten better since he was little and his brother enjoyed scaring the hell out of him with these beasts
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23:59:52 <KragenSitaker> 18:08 < bjoern_> So it returns an integer; 0 if there was an internal error, x
23:59:52 <KragenSitaker> + 1 if the string matches, and -( x + 1 ) if it does not,
23:59:52 <KragenSitaker> where x is the number of characters read
