00:00:02 <Tene> also, vim can edit files remotely over ssh, ftp, etc.
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00:03:51 <perigrin> ooh ick yes there *must* be something better than frontpage
00:04:47 <Tene> Although I don't know if that works on Win32 or not.
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00:16:48 <perigrin> jsled, I got my wife using E http://www.e-texteditor.com/ which is not free
00:17:08 <perigrin> but seemed very nice and supported TextMate bundles and themes
00:17:33 <perigrin> (meaning it has decent support for PHP)
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00:27:40 <jsled> Schneier is so good. http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2007/05/is_big_brother_1.html
00:29:01 <jsled> I've thought this for a while. There's no Big Brother. There's no conspiracy.
00:29:39 <jsled> There's an emergent behavior that's even worse.
00:30:57 *** jsled changed the topic to: "'Cham a gentil harlot and a kynde || Fuck along, noww."
00:31:03 *** jsled changed the topic to: "'Cham a gentil harlot and a kynde || Fuck along, now."
00:31:11 <jsled> (http://www.achewood.com/index.php?date=05112007)
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02:42:01 <bancus> http://digg.com/world_news/CNN_News_Flash_Bush_Resigns
02:42:05 <bancus> Man, I got seriously excited.
02:42:11 <bancus> It's just not fair.
02:45:05 <Tene> It's just no realistic enough for me to get excited.
02:45:26 <bancus> Supposedly that's a real screencap.
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02:58:59 <perigrin> heh
02:59:11 <perigrin> There isn't nearly enough pressure on him currently.
02:59:22 <perigrin> He'll feel he needs to *at least* hold out better than Clinton.
02:59:40 <perigrin> who went through the full impeachment only to have it thrown out by the senate.
03:00:12 <bancus> What were Clinton's high crimes and misdemeanors again?
03:02:32 <perigrin> Officially lying to the american public. Unofficially ... er being Clinton? Getting a BJ in the Oval Office and not being discrete about it?
03:02:41 <perigrin> .wik Bill Clinton
03:02:44 <phenny> "William Jefferson 'Bill' Clinton, GCL (born William Jefferson Blythe III[1] on August 19, 1946) was the 42nd President of the United States, serving from 1993 to 2001." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton
03:04:06 <crschmidt> Dude
03:04:11 <crschmidt> if I got a BJ in th oval office
03:04:16 <crschmidt> I would totally not be discreet
03:04:23 <crschmidt> I'd be like, writing in my LiveJournal about it
03:04:27 <crschmidt> Or something
03:04:38 <perigrin> "perjury and obstruction of justice."
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03:41:21 <bancus> Well, why were they investigating him to begin with?
03:55:02 <perigrin> hmm ...
03:55:28 <perigrin> the perjury is from the testimony he gave in the sexual harrasment case.
03:55:36 <bjoern_> .gc "Killer iPod"
03:55:38 <phenny> "Killer iPod": 21,900
03:56:08 <perigrin> bancus, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Star#Time_as_Independent_Counsel
03:57:42 <perigrin> Paula Jones brought the harassment suit that clinton allegedly perjured himself in.
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04:07:12 <clarity_> sup
04:15:23 * perigrin glares at xslt
04:21:12 <clarity_> man, i have a sudden urge to wear a costume to my final tomorrow
04:22:35 <Tene> clarity_: what class?
04:27:34 <bancus> I see.
04:28:26 <Tene> bancus: you won't if your eyes are stolen.
04:28:44 <bancus> Well don't steal my eyes, you prick.
04:30:05 <clarity_> machine structures
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06:43:02 <bjoern_> @wunder Heidelberg
06:43:06 <supybot> bjoern_: Temperature: 56.3°F / 13.5°C | Humidity: 82% | Pressure: 29.80in / 1009.0hPa | Conditions: Scattered Clouds | Wind Direction: WSW | Wind Speed: 12.0mph / 19.3km/h | Updated: 8:03 AM CEST; Chance of Rain. High:62 ° F. / 17 ° C.; Chance of Rain. Low:50 ° F. / 10 ° C.; Chance of Rain. High:64 ° F. / 18 ° C.; Scattered Clouds. Low:50 ° F. / 10 ° C.; Partly Cloudy. High:77 ° F. / 25 ° C.; Scattered Clouds. (1 more message)
06:43:18 <bjoern_> cold!!!
06:53:35 <bancus> @wunder if
06:53:40 <supybot> bancus: Error: No such location could be found.
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08:11:50 <Monty> yo Gromgul1!
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08:26:27 <Tene> .ety comparable
08:26:30 <phenny> Can't find the etymology for "comparable". Try http://etymonline.com/?search=comparable
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08:34:41 <bjoern_> @wunder Heidelberg
08:34:44 <supybot> bjoern_: Temperature: 59.7°F / 15.4°C | Humidity: 69% | Pressure: 29.85in / 1010.7hPa | Conditions: Scattered Clouds | Wind Direction: West | Wind Speed: 12.0mph / 19.3km/h | Updated: 10:03 AM CEST; Chance of Rain. High:68 ° F. / 20 ° C.; Partly Cloudy. Low:51 ° F. / 11 ° C.; Chance of Rain. High:73 ° F. / 23 ° C.; Chance of Rain. Low:57 ° F. / 14 ° C.; Chance of Rain. High:68 ° F. / 20 ° C.; Overcast. Low:51 (1 more message)
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09:07:57 <kandinski> and now, for something to make both jibberjim and sbp (and, I am sure, many more) cringe: a converter that turns Python code into Javascript
09:08:01 <kandinski> http://www.maluke.com/blog/programming-the-browser-with-python
09:08:44 <Arnia> ...
09:10:16 <bjoern_> Doesn't parrot/pugs have a javascript emitter? I vaguely remember seeing something...
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09:24:26 <Tene> bjoern_: yes.
09:24:38 <Tene> pugs does.
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09:29:21 <Arnia> I want to scream: http://politics.guardian.co.uk/labourleadership/story/0,,2078063,00.html
09:30:10 <bjoern_> At first I read "Chancellor will consider written prostitution" which sort of didn't make sense...
09:30:55 * Arnia is angry
09:33:01 <darobin> what's wrong with written prostitution
09:33:03 <darobin> ?
09:33:18 <Arnia> Nothing... but a written constitution leaves me steaming
09:33:40 <darobin> all the other cool kids have it :)
09:33:42 * darobin ducks
09:34:06 * Arnia lobs a nuke at darobin's ducks
09:35:04 <darobin> *quack!!!*
09:35:06 <Arnia> besides, it's nonsense. Our constitution is largely written... just spread through history in little bits
09:35:27 <darobin> so it wouldn't make much of a diff
09:35:30 <Arnia> Which makes it more flexible and adaptive
09:35:45 <Arnia> darobin: I don't want it in all one document that becomes holy writ
09:35:49 <bjoern_> You can ask Bush whether you can have theirs, they aren't using it anymore.
09:35:55 <Arnia> darobin: there is a mindset difference
09:36:12 <darobin> how flexible a constitution is depends on the process included in it for its own change
09:36:19 <darobin> oh, you're thinking american constitution
09:36:26 <darobin> not all constitutions are like that
09:36:59 <darobin> and not all countries that have a constitution have that mindset
09:37:23 <Arnia> Anyway, for us to adopt a written consititution gains us nothing in my opinion and loses us a lot. So why do it?
09:37:50 <sbp> "Our constitution is largely written... just spread through history in little bits" - yeah, exactly. we have a very strong constitution, including a Bill of Rights
09:38:03 <Arnia> They'd probably make the Lords elected at the same time and turn PM into a presidential-style position *shudders*
09:38:03 <sbp> bugs me when people don't think we have any rights
09:38:04 <darobin> look at here: we've burned ours four times already to make a new one, and while we haven't yet done that to the current one it's been change so that it's not really the same as the orginal
09:38:47 * Arnia would abolish the office of prime minister as an anachronism and reinstigate the feudal system
09:38:58 <bjoern_> We make a new one every time we invade france.
09:39:02 <darobin> anyway, it's not that I'm in favour of it, I'm just saying that if it happens I'd be surprised if it turned out to work the way the american one does
09:39:17 <darobin> see? each country according to its style :)
09:39:52 <Arnia> darobin: with how much Brown is in thrall to the US? I can see a very US style constitution
09:40:31 <Arnia> sbp: I now would rather eat arsenic than have Brown or Cameron as PM
09:40:49 <Arnia> sbp: can we set up the swhacknation?
09:41:23 <bjoern_> There is a semi british island available for sale.
09:41:41 <bjoern_> You'd have to compete with some pirates for it though.
09:41:43 <Arnia> Yes, but it is a bit small for parties
09:42:21 <darobin> "Which American politician doesn't at some stage enlist the help of the founding fathers or invoke the American dream enshrined in the Bill of Rights? Which British politician ever mentions the Magna Carta?" # http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6637429.stm
09:42:28 <sbp> Arnia: I don't mind the nation, it's the government that's the problem
09:42:52 <sbp> Magna Carta is largely superceded now
09:43:05 <sbp> it's not generally called "the", either. stupid journalist
09:43:16 <sbp> I think there might be one or two clauses still in effect
09:43:36 <sbp> it's still legally part of the fabric of law though; it's a valid document
09:43:36 <bjoern_> Apply for the .html ccTLD and install the usual dictator as government?
09:43:52 <sbp> The Swhack Party!
09:44:03 <sbp> we could have a partai and have it morph into a political party
09:44:23 <sbp> I call honourable secretary
09:45:42 * sbp finding interesting stuff about his ancestry today, including lineage (maternally) from a now extinct baronetcy, which family can be traced back to the Saxon heptarchy
09:46:29 <sbp> doesn't compare to Plantagenet-boy, but interesting all the same
09:47:55 <darobin> if only because you get to say heptarchy
09:49:21 <sbp> exactly
09:52:46 <sbp> I'm also, I've just read, a descendant of a "Hamlett" living in the 16th century. fun
09:53:23 <sbp> (fairly common name then)
09:59:02 <sbp> <bjoern_> There is a semi british island available for sale.
09:59:06 <sbp> a semi-British island?
10:03:40 <bjoern_> Aren't there several where it's disputed where they belong?
10:04:23 <sbp> ha! I think I've just traced lineage back to the Plantagenets. that's hilarious
10:04:51 <sbp> bjoern_: which one were you referring to?
10:05:39 <bjoern_> .g The Pirate Bay buys island
10:05:42 <phenny> bjoern_: http://www.thelocal.se/6076/20070112/
10:06:00 <sbp> I looked up the origins of the baronetcy and it flipped to this other family through a maternal line. so I looked back through that and it was going "Sir such and such, Lord such and such, Such and such KG, Such and Such Earl, Such and Such Earl, Edward III"
10:06:39 <sbp> oh, Sealand
10:06:40 <sbp> old hat
10:06:42 <bjoern_> I think there is another which offered asylum to the hacker you are planning to ship to the US
10:08:17 <bjoern_> or was that .au? hmm
10:08:52 <bjoern_> All I remember is I read it on wikipedia...
10:09:07 <JibberJim> Oh well.
10:12:22 <bjoern_> 'Kick UK out of Eurovision Song Contest' -- http://www.thelocal.se/6832/20070328/
10:13:53 <bjoern_> "The Pirate Bay hacked" -- http://www.thelocal.se/7280/20070511/
10:14:02 <bjoern_> what's with the swedes having all the good news?
10:14:36 <bjoern_> "... by a group calling itself Angry Young Hackers (Arga Unga Hackare - AUH)."
10:15:05 <JibberJim> How can you kick the UK out of eurovision?
10:15:08 <JibberJim> that's horrible
10:15:26 <bjoern_> Some would say letting them participate is!
10:16:36 <bjoern_> "Man burnt own apartment 'to smoke out neighbours'" -- http://www.thelocal.se/7259/20070510/
10:17:06 <JibberJim> but the UK are the most successful eurovision country!
10:17:12 <bjoern_> "An 18-year-old girl has been prosecuted for taking photos of two of her classmates having sex and uploading the images to the internet." -- http://www.thelocal.se/7273/
10:17:23 <JibberJim> 3453 points to Ireland's 3092 and Sweden's 2795
10:17:47 <JibberJim> hmm 15 2nd places for the UK - definately rigged against us!
10:18:12 <bjoern_> We've been last way more often than you!
10:19:05 <JibberJim> wikipedia doesn't count that :(
10:19:32 <bjoern_> http://www.diggiloo.net/?uk vs http://www.diggiloo.net/?de
10:20:28 <JibberJim> We need to get null points again, that was great with Jemini
10:21:06 <JibberJim> germany doesn't deserve to win with the cheating voting all going to turkey
10:22:22 <JibberJim> Notice UK's most votes go to the country that have the most votes from everyone!
10:22:51 <bjoern_> aah, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6646215.stm has the latest on who'll win
10:23:10 <bjoern_> unlike yesterday http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6634045.stm BBC doesn't promise we will win anymore.
10:23:29 <bjoern_> which is kinda good, since their tips have been quite off last year
10:27:37 <bjoern_> Finland got 10p from us last year!
10:27:47 *** cre8radix (n=cre8radi@ACCAB1AD.ipt.aol.com) has joined #swhack
10:28:06 <bjoern_> and we gave 12 to greece the year before!
10:28:44 <bjoern_> and 12 to poland in 2003!
10:29:15 <bjoern_> Latvia 12p from us in 2002
10:29:38 <bjoern_> We only give 12p to Turkey if they are awesome!
10:30:15 <JibberJim> bet you give them 10 though otherwise
10:30:59 <bjoern_> with 9.3 on average, that's likely...
10:36:39 * sbp now tracing direct lineage up from Edward III...
10:37:24 <darobin> mmmm, I should trace lineage, could be fun
10:37:47 <darobin> problem is my family has tended to change continent with every generation, making it a bit muddled
10:38:48 <JibberJim> with french and australians in your history, are you sure you want to find out?
10:39:25 <darobin> I don't much care on the French side, especially since at least half of that likely vanishes into basque oblivion
10:39:39 <kandinski> basque, hmmm
10:39:42 <darobin> but on the australian side I can trace at least one line back to scotland
10:39:44 <kandinski> why oblivion?
10:39:57 <darobin> apparently records are spotty there (I'm told)
10:40:57 <kandinski> It would depend which part of the Basque Country
10:41:03 <kandinski> whether it was very rural, I guess
10:41:12 <darobin> French side, and definitely rural
10:41:42 <sbp> what I did was to look at Edward III on Wikipedia, and then open the links of the father and mother in new tabs, and close the tab and move on, repeating the process...
10:41:44 <kandinski> my mother's side comes from the Spanish side, semi-urban
10:42:02 <kandinski> defnitly well preserved records
10:42:02 <sbp> trouble is, the growth. some of it gets cut out as the ancestors aren't recorded
10:42:06 <sbp> but generally it's still growing
10:42:09 <darobin> but then that's only one generation, given that after that they moved to Normandy, and after that to the Alps, it could be that the generation before they were in Basque country were somewhere completely different
10:42:10 <sbp> up to people like "Henry I, Count of Champagne" now
10:42:35 <kandinski> darobin: what's your surname?
10:42:40 <darobin> Berjon
10:42:59 <sbp> Fulk V of Anjou... interesting character
10:43:00 <kandinski> and do you know any basque surname of your ancestors?
10:43:05 <darobin> nope
10:43:22 <darobin> but IIRC it's all male line, so it should be the name unless it got changed
10:43:45 <sbp> ah, Henry I of England
10:43:57 <darobin> Count of Champagne was better
10:44:02 <sbp> funny how all the lines go off
10:44:14 <sbp> yeah, there was a Count of Champagne somewhere too
10:44:17 <bjoern_> [[[
10:44:25 <bjoern_> ... If something is really rubbish, I don't hold back. [E.g.,] Gemini [the UK's entry in 2003] were really terrible. Especially with Britain being mother country of pop culture. For everyone here it was sad to see this really, really average entry come up. We don't really understand this at all.
10:44:31 <bjoern_> It looks to me like Scooch is in the same sort of category, honestly. It definitely won't fly, I can tell you that. It will stay right on the ground...
10:44:33 <kandinski> darobin: aha
10:44:45 <bjoern_> ]]] -- our Eurovision guy on http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6619487.stm
10:44:46 <sbp> might come up again. currently on "Ramón Berenguer IV, Count of Barcelona"
10:44:54 <bjoern_> kandinski!!!!!111
10:45:32 <Arnia> sbp: 'plantagenet-boy'
10:47:02 <kandinski> yo, sorry
10:47:17 <sbp> Arnia: hehe. cram it
10:47:18 <kandinski> do you like my butt?
10:47:48 <sbp> Arnia: excellent case of poetic justice indeed
10:47:51 <bjoern_> Shall I kick so hard you'll kiss the moon?
10:48:12 <Arnia> sbp: so, we're like cousins then?
10:48:22 <sbp> possibly. we must be related somehow
10:48:37 <sbp> are you a direct descendant of Edward III do you know?
10:48:50 <sbp> he's the only one I've traced so far on the royal line
10:49:11 <sbp> and his ancestors include King John, William the Conqueror, most of the Henrys...
10:49:12 <Arnia> Henry II... down through Derby I believe
10:49:31 <sbp> ah yes, so then we are both descended from a common source
10:49:55 <sbp> let's see, how many times removed would we be after that many generations...
10:49:59 <sbp> :-)
10:50:22 <Arnia> sbp and Arnia, cousins 24 times removed (on our mother's side ;)
10:50:37 <sbp> yeah, shame about the maternality, eh?
10:50:56 <sbp> the baronetcy I traced through went through maternal lines like five times or something to get to the Plantagenets
10:51:08 <sbp> via John of Gaunt, nicely enough
10:51:27 <Arnia> yeah... mine is patrilineal until my mum's mum
10:51:30 <sbp> (ah, it was five times)
10:51:52 <sbp> mine's matrilineal until my great great grandfather
10:52:16 <sbp> then it goes patrilineal for ages (which is how I can trace it to the baronetcy since it's in a local history book)
10:52:44 <sbp> then the baronetcy itself I haven't fully studied, and then it goes off on the wobble
10:52:49 <Arnia> I do have an odd urge to change my name to my gran's maiden name (Ivall) or the original form (d'Ivall)
10:52:58 <bjoern_> .gc "Doctor Death and the Tooth Fairy"
10:52:59 <sbp> matripatrimatripatripatrimatripatri...
10:53:00 <Arnia> Although that would through publication records out :p
10:53:01 <phenny> "Doctor Death and the Tooth Fairy": 78
10:53:10 <sbp> d'Ivall! that is pretty neat
10:53:17 <sbp> I like d' names
10:53:33 <sbp> d'Avenant, from Shakespearean research, for example
10:53:44 <sbp> bjoern_: bwahaha. I remember that
10:53:47 <sbp> Wogan++
10:54:01 * sbp continues back-tracing Edward III...
10:54:27 <Arnia> sbp: I misread that as backtracking and thought of generations of people as prolog predicates
10:54:37 <Arnia> I may have spent too long in Prolog...
10:54:52 <Arnia> Oh, is anyone playing the Eurovision Drinking Game tonight?
10:54:52 <sbp> hehe. yes
10:55:03 <sbp> ah! no?
10:55:08 <sbp> got link™?
10:55:34 <sbp> woah, cool. "Mstislav I Vladimirovich the Great"
10:56:01 <sbp> (whose grandfather was Harold II)
10:56:20 <bjoern_> .g Eurovision Drinking Game
10:56:22 <phenny> bjoern_: http://www.webtender.com/handbook/games/eurovision-song-contest.game
10:56:23 <sbp> "Theobald II, Count of Champagne"
10:56:24 <Arnia> sbp: hm... no, although I could write an article on the game
10:56:32 <Arnia> bjoern_: not the same one
10:56:38 <Arnia> A brief summary of the rules
10:56:58 <Arnia> Everyone gets a country (like in the Name Game with names) and for every mention you do two dig'
10:57:16 <Arnia> Whilst your country is singing, see away your beverage
10:57:25 <Arnia> If your country wins, you must do a yard
10:57:55 <Arnia> If your country loses or gets nil point then you must do a dirty pint at the Bar Steward's discretion
10:58:22 <bjoern_> why make drinking so complicated?
10:58:38 <sbp> huh, freaky: "His mother was Almodis de la Marche, but she was kidnapped by and subsequently married to Ramon Berenguer I, Count of Barcelona when William was a boy." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_IV_of_Toulouse
10:58:46 <sbp> "Władysław II the Exile"
10:59:00 <sbp> Arnia: two dig'? yard?
10:59:07 <sbp> ...dirty pint?
10:59:22 * sbp not familiar with the auncient noble language of the drinking game
10:59:28 <Arnia> bjoern_: it is a game... and a popular one in Durham
10:59:44 <Arnia> sbp: two dig' = two digits of beverage
10:59:55 <Arnia> sbp: yard = 3 and a half pints
11:00:03 <Arnia> (generally drunk from a yard glass)
11:00:23 <Arnia> sbp: dirty pint = a pint made up with spirits
11:00:31 <Arnia> (and often other things too...)
11:00:35 <bjoern_> .calc 1 imperial yards in liter
11:00:37 <phenny> bjoern_: Sorry, no result.
11:00:55 <bjoern_> .calc 1 yard in l
11:00:57 <phenny> bjoern_: Sorry, no result.
11:01:34 <Arnia> .g yard glass
11:01:36 <phenny> Arnia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yard_of_ale
11:02:58 <Arnia> Oh good grief... wikipedia has rules for 'Ride the Bus'
11:03:05 <Arnia> That game is fun... but lethal
11:03:21 <Arnia> I Have Never is wonderful to play with good friends
11:03:57 <Arnia> (we once had a game of I Have Never which lasted for five hours...)
11:04:25 <xover> Appropriately, the bartender at the hotel I just stayed at was from “Just outside London”.
11:04:54 <sbp> "Ealdgyth Swan-neck"
11:05:05 <cre8radix> hey
11:05:18 <cre8radix> sbp: howzit going?
11:05:25 <Arnia> xover: which side of 'just outside'?
11:05:43 <xover> No idea. He declined to give me specifics.
11:05:49 <Arnia> Fair enough
11:06:21 <sbp> cre8radix: not too bad, thanks. up to "William V of Aquitaine (969 – 31 January 1030)"
11:06:53 <cre8radix> wow
11:07:02 * Arnia cheers for the Aquitaines
11:07:04 <xover> BTW, Arnia, what's your complaint with a written constitution?
11:07:22 <xover> Only the potential for it ending up sucking, or...?
11:07:26 <Arnia> xover: I feel that it tends to fosilise a perspective
11:07:38 <Arnia> (and it isn't just the US constitution I've had this problem with)
11:07:41 <sbp> ooh, interesting: "Herleva (c. 1003 - 1050) also known as Arlette, Arletta, and Herlève, was the mother of William I of England. The background of Herleva and the circumstances of William's birth are shrouded in mystery."
11:07:55 <Arnia> I'm a conservative, but that doesn't mean that I think ALL change is bad... just hasty change
11:08:09 <xover> Hmm. The obvious bits of the US one seem rather nice...
11:08:09 <sbp> a lot of this is pretty cool. also, Wikipedia++
11:08:24 <Arnia> I don't like changes which come in fits and starts as much as I dislike rapid change
11:08:54 <cre8radix> "Everywhere he was greeted with royal pomp."
11:08:59 <cre8radix> hrhr
11:09:01 <cre8radix> nice
11:09:03 <cre8radix> i like
11:09:08 <sbp> ooh, Alfred the Great
11:09:14 <Arnia> xover: I don't believe in many of the precepts, I think the separation of powers they have is the wrong separation and I find it hard to avoid giggling at 'democracy'
11:09:20 <sbp> via Baldwin V, Count of Flanders in this particular line
11:10:07 <xover> Hmm. I think the point of such a document is to act as a last line of defence against fundamental abuses, and to set guiding principles for implementation.
11:10:15 <bjoern_> .w Rawlplug
11:10:18 <phenny> I couldn't find 'Rawlplug' in WordNet.
11:10:19 <bjoern_> .wik Rawlplug
11:10:22 <phenny> "Rawlplug is a tradename of Rawlplug Ltd. which has become genericised in the UK as a name for wall plugs." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rawlplug
11:10:34 <bjoern_> .wik wall plug
11:10:37 <phenny> "A wall plug is a type of fixing used in building." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_plug
11:11:16 <xover> For instance, the .no constitution prohibits our military from acting on foreign soil unless someone has declareed war on us.
11:11:35 <xover> Making our NATO membership unconstitutional, but... :-)
11:11:40 <Arnia> xover: it is just a piece of paper
11:11:43 <sbp> heh, St. Leopold, patron saint of Austria
11:11:53 <Arnia> All a constitution is, is a piece of paper with some whacky ideas on
11:12:05 <sbp> Henry IV, Holy Roman Emperor...
11:12:21 <xover> Sure. And they've got a few support functions down in the Iraq/Afghanistan region.
11:12:37 <xover> (which they strictly speaking shouldn't have)
11:12:48 <Arnia> I don't see the need for it really... just legislate intelligently instead if you need laws
11:12:49 <bjoern_> I don't think the EU constitution would fit on something reasonably called a piece of paper...
11:13:31 <Arnia> Of course, the Common's are incapable of intelligent legislation
11:13:37 <Arnia> -'
11:14:11 <sbp> even though I'm back to mainly the 10th and 11th centuries, the tabs are still growing
11:14:16 *** libby (n=libby@82-32-5-17.cable.ubr01.azte.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #swhack
11:14:16 <xover> The winners of the Democratic Popularity Contest get to make any law they choose, more or less.
11:14:35 <sbp> the pages are getting generally shorter, though
11:15:07 <xover> A constitution, by being harder to change on a whim, is a tool to limit the scope of their lawmaking.
11:15:24 <Arnia> xover: meh, I trust the Lords more than a piece of paper
11:15:33 <bjoern_> I don't think the lobbies even participate in the contest xover.
11:15:50 * bjoern_ wonders whether that's why Lordi won
11:15:52 <sbp> Saint Ladislaus I of Hungary...
11:16:12 <xover> bjoern_: No, they just game the system.
11:16:51 <xover> Arnia: Hmm. Perhaps that's it. I place absolutely no faith in “people” in general.
11:17:46 <bjoern_> law making machines the next big thing after voting machines?
11:18:08 <xover> They should be spending more effort on abolishing laws than making them up.
11:18:42 <bjoern_> They do, they replace them with International Treaties.
11:19:13 <Arnia> I have no faith in the words of dead men as an authority over those who are alive.
11:19:26 <Arnia> But equally I'm a conservative
11:19:33 <Arnia> Find the least fixed point boys!
11:20:14 <bjoern_> Why, there are more smart people dead than alive.
11:20:53 <Arnia> Well, what I stated was a supreme simplification of my position on the grounds of eloquence (I liked the form of those words)
11:21:26 <Arnia> What I actually hold is that change should be minimised, but should always be possible as long as it is done with due deliberation
11:21:47 <Arnia> A dead text can't deliberate, nor can it be aware of how the world has altered since it was written
11:22:03 <Arnia> It has no awareness of culture, of technology nor even of its own existence
11:22:53 <Arnia> So I'm more likely to trust a large group of experts from a wide range of disciplines and backgrounds (like the Lords) over dead text and career politicians (the Commons)
11:24:36 <sbp> getting the occasional "rising to power" story, such as this one: "Anna Dalassena (1025-1102) was an important Byzantine noblewoman who rose to position comparable to that of an Empress-Mother during the reign of her son Alexios I Komnenos."
11:26:27 * Arnia rises to power and declares a feudal state
11:26:44 * Arnia appoints sbp a baron
11:27:25 <sbp> "Gytha Thorkelsdóttir" - great name
11:27:28 <sbp> Arnia: thanks!
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11:28:18 <sbp> the tabs aren't growing as much now since a lot of the mothers aren't further linked
11:29:56 <sbp> "Ethelwulf of Wessex"...
11:30:55 <xover> Gytha... Hmm. Old Norse...? Or perhaps Icelandic?
11:32:31 <sbp> neat apart from the misspelling: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Cronological_tree_william_I.svg
11:32:56 <sbp> xover: "Gytha Torkelsdotter was the daughter of Torkel Styrbjörnsson.[1] In 1019, she married the Anglo-Saxon nobleman Godwin of Wessex, apparently as his second wife (his first wife having been a Danish princess)."
11:33:28 <sbp> descended from a Swede, and apparently Anglo-Saxon herself
11:34:34 <xover> “dóttir” appears to be very telling.
11:35:02 <sbp> yeah. that's only used in Iceland, isn't it?
11:35:10 <darobin> today yes
11:35:12 <xover> Currently, yes.
11:35:16 <sbp> well, now at least. I wonder what the distribution was like back in the 11th century...
11:35:16 <darobin> but before that it was more widespread
11:35:21 <sbp> aye
11:36:10 <xover> Icelandic is certainly closer to old norse than anything else `round these parts.
11:36:43 <sbp> "Vladimir Svyatoslavich the Great"
11:37:03 <sbp> awesome: "Vladimir was the youngest son of Sviatoslav I of Kiev by his housekeeper Malusha, described in the Norse sagas as a prophetess who lived to the age of 100 and was brought from her cave to the palace to predict the future."
11:37:28 <sbp> starting to get back to legend
11:37:57 <sbp> and people like Olof, "son of Eric the Victorious and Sigrid the Haughty"
11:38:02 <xover> [[[
11:38:02 <xover> Because most of the surviving texts are from Medieval Icelandic, the de
11:38:02 <xover> facto standard version of the language is the Old West Norse dialect, that
11:38:02 <xover> is Old Icelandic and Old Norwegian. Sometimes, Old Norse is defined as Old
11:38:02 <xover> Icelandic and Old Norwegian. However, the same language was spoken in the
11:38:02 <xover> form of a very similar Old East Norse dialect in Denmark and Sweden and
11:38:06 <xover> their settlements. There was no clear geographical separation between the
11:38:09 <xover> two dialects.
11:38:10 <xover> ]]] — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_norse
11:39:19 <xover> From around 700 to 1300 it seems.
11:39:39 <sbp> ah, we're up to Rollo, who's an interesting figure--a Viking chief who founded Normandy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rollo_of_Normandy
11:40:09 <sbp> xover: huh, cool, so a lot less separation
11:41:37 <sbp> ooh. "Redburga or Raedburh was the wife of king Egbert of Wessex and may have been the sister-in-law of Charlemagne as the sister of his fourth wife, Luitgarde"
11:42:13 <xover> [[[
11:42:14 <xover> The name Rollo is a Frankish-Latin name probably taken from Scandinavian
11:42:14 <xover> name Hrólf (cf. the latinization of Hrólf Kraki into the similar Roluo in
11:42:14 <xover> the Gesta Danorum).
11:42:14 <xover> ]]] — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rollo_of_Normandy
11:42:31 <xover> My father's name is “Rolf”. :-)
11:43:11 <sbp> ah, another link to Charlemagne through Conrad II: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Ottonian_Salian_dynasty.JPG
11:43:23 <sbp> Rolf? heh, I don't know that name other than for Rolf Harris, an Australian
11:43:39 <sbp> Hrólf... hmm
11:43:55 <xover> So apparently he should go by “Robert” in England.
11:44:00 <Tene> .cp 0646
11:44:03 <phenny> 0646: ARABIC LETTER NOON (ن)
11:44:06 <phenny> FC4B: ARABIC LIGATURE NOON WITH JEEM ISOLATED FORM (ﱋ)
11:44:10 <phenny> FC4C: ARABIC LIGATURE NOON WITH HAH ISOLATED FORM (ﱌ) [...]
11:44:41 <sbp> tabs are really starting to thin out now
11:45:23 <Tene> .cp 0627
11:45:25 <phenny> 0622: ARABIC LETTER ALEF WITH MADDA ABOVE (آ)
11:45:28 <phenny> 0623: ARABIC LETTER ALEF WITH HAMZA ABOVE (أ)
11:45:31 <phenny> 0625: ARABIC LETTER ALEF WITH HAMZA BELOW (إ) [...]
11:45:52 <sbp> "Otto I, Holy Roman Emperor"
11:47:36 <sbp> aha, a Björn!
11:48:02 <sbp> ("Björn Eriksson")
11:48:55 <sbp> cool, Harald Bluetooth Gormson
11:49:24 <sbp> ah, here we go! direct descendancy from Charlemagne: "Luitgarde of Vermandois (circa 914-9 February 978) was a daughter of Herbert II of Vermandois and thus a sixth generation descendant of Charlemagne."
11:50:37 <sbp> hmm, this one is interesting: "Ingelger (Ingelgerius) was a viscount who held territory around Orléans and Angers at the end of the 9th century. He is the son of Tertullus", but Tertullus isn't linked
11:51:02 <bjoern_> .ety severe
11:51:10 <phenny> Can't find the etymology for "severe". Try http://etymonline.com/?search=severe
11:51:21 <xover> [[[
11:51:21 <xover> According to legend, when required to kiss the foot of King Charles, as a
11:51:21 <xover> condition of the treaty, he refused to perform so great a humiliation, and
11:51:21 <xover> when Charles extended his foot to Rollo, Rollo ordered one of his warriors
11:51:21 <xover> to do so in his place. His warrior then lifted Charles' foot up to his
11:51:22 <xover> mouth causing him to fall to the ground.
11:51:24 <xover> ]]]
11:51:39 <xover> Heh heh. This guy is so definitely a Norwegian! :-)
11:52:11 <sbp> one of the earliest so far: "Ealhmund, was King of Kent in 784."
11:52:23 <sbp> foot: bwahahaha!
11:54:04 <sbp> yet another Charlemagne link: "Henry was the son of Otto the Illustrious, duke of Saxony, and his wife Hedwiga, daughter of Henry of Franconia and Ingeltrude and a great-great-granddaughter of Charlemagne."
11:54:16 <xover> [[[
11:54:17 <xover> If genealogical information from Middle Ages is true, Rollo is a direct
11:54:17 <xover> ancestor of William the Conqueror. Through William, he is a direct ancestor
11:54:17 <xover> and predecessor of the present-day British royal family, including
11:54:17 <xover> Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
11:54:17 <xover> ]]]
11:54:35 <sbp> yeah. well I've been tracing back from Edward III, so it was kinda obvious
11:54:58 <sbp> having gone through Harold II and William the Conqueror I can also see how they were related
11:55:20 <bjoern_> @wunder Heidelberg
11:55:23 <sbp> which is kinda funny because it's usually seen as a huge regime change and the start of the current line of royalty
11:55:24 <supybot> bjoern_: Temperature: 61.7°F / 16.5°C | Humidity: 65% | Pressure: 29.88in / 1011.7hPa | Conditions: Scattered Clouds | Wind Direction: WSW | Wind Speed: 7.0mph / 11.3km/h | Updated: 1:03 PM CEST; Chance of Rain. High:68 ° F. / 20 ° C.; Partly Cloudy. Low:51 ° F. / 11 ° C.; Chance of Rain. High:73 ° F. / 23 ° C.; Chance of Rain. Low:57 ° F. / 14 ° C.; Chance of Rain. High:68 ° F. / 20 ° C.; Overcast. Low:51 ° (1 more message)
11:55:34 <bjoern_> bah
11:56:19 <sbp> oh, Henry, by the way, was a King of Germany
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11:56:45 <xover> Oh, he's actually buried at Rouen.
11:58:07 <xover> heh heh. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clameur_de_haro
11:58:15 <sbp> hehe: "He was the son of Wilfred the Hairy" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunifred_II%2C_Count_of_Barcelona
11:58:35 <sbp> ah, yes! I think jcowan told us about the Clameur de haro
11:58:45 * xover checks the time...
11:59:06 <sbp> check out the Jerrais language too if you have the time. it's awesome
11:59:16 <xover> Meh! sbp you rotter! Quit distracting me! I was supposed to be at work an hour ago!
12:00:08 <xover> loggy, pointer?
12:00:08 <loggy> http://swhack.com/logs/2007-05-12#T12-00-08
12:00:20 <sbp> aw, another untracable line: "Hermann (died 27 March 973, Quedlinburg) was a Saxon nobleman and the oldest well-known member of the House of Billung. Hermann's parents are unknown"
12:00:21 <sbp> hehe, sorry
12:00:37 <sbp> this is awesome fun though
12:00:42 <xover> phenny: ask jcowan about “Clameur de Haro” cf. http://swhack.com/logs/2007-05-12#T12-00-08
12:00:45 <phenny> xover: I'll pass that on when jcowan is around.
12:00:47 <sbp> "Herman, Duke of Saxony is the 28th Great Grandfather of Queen Elizabeth II."
12:00:52 <xover> ta phenny hon.
12:01:41 <sbp> nice: "Árp'ád (c.850–907) was the first ruler of Hungary." (though the son of his that I traced back from is only a "probable son")
12:02:35 <sbp> woah
12:02:36 <sbp> "Boleslaus I the Cruel also called Boleslaw I (Czech: Boleslav I. Ukrutný) (died 15 July 967 or 972) was the duke of Bohemia from 929 or 935 to his death. His father was Vratislaus I. Boleslav is notorious for the murder of his brother Saint Wenceslas, the result of which brought him to the Czech ducal throne."
12:04:22 <sbp> St. Olga of Kiev...
12:04:37 <bjoern_> Monty, remind me in 16 minutes of OMG RUN!!!
12:04:37 <Monty> Berjon
12:04:46 <bjoern_> ..........
12:04:54 <sbp> I think you have to say "to"
12:05:05 <bjoern_> Monty, remind me in 16 minutes to OMG RUN!!!
12:05:05 <Monty> bjoern_: Okay, I'll remind you about that on Sat May 12 13:16:01 BST 2007
12:05:06 <sbp> Monty: remind me in 15 minutes to tell bjoern_ to remember "OMG RUN!!!"
12:05:06 <Monty> sbp: Okay, I'll remind you about that on Sat May 12 13:15:02 BST 2007
12:05:08 <sbp> heh
12:05:39 <bjoern_> remind me in 1 minute to kick Monty
12:05:39 <Monty> bjoern_: Okay, I'll remind you about that on Sat May 12 13:01:35 BST 2007
12:05:56 <bjoern_> BST?!
12:06:13 <trousers_> It's Summer!
12:06:57 <sbp> ooh, Gorm the Old, father of King Canute
12:07:08 <sbp> yeah, BST sucks. my wristwatch is still on UTC
12:07:08 <Monty> bjoern_: You asked me to remind you to kick Monty
12:07:10 * bjoern_ kicks Monty
12:07:10 <Monty> Idiot!
12:07:13 <sbp> hehe
12:07:50 <sbp> hmm. getting very much to the tricky bits now: "There are contradictory accounts of Thyra's parentage. Saxo holds she was the daughter of Æthelred, King of England[dubious — see talk page] but Snorri says her father was a king or jarl of Jutland or Holstein called Harald Klak. The latter interpretation is more likely."
12:08:19 <sbp> Rudolph I of Burgundy, b.859...
12:08:49 * bjoern_ 's from Holstein, in a way
12:10:13 <sbp> Robert the Strong: "Following only the male line, Robert is the direct patrilineal ancestor of the thrones of France, Spain, and Portugal."
12:10:18 <sbp> .wik Holstein
12:10:20 <phenny> "Holstein (IPA: [ˈhɔlʃtain]) (Low German: Holsteen, Danish: Holsten, Latin and historical English: Holsatia) is the southern part of Schleswig-Holstein in Germany, between the rivers Elbe and Eider." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holstein
12:10:33 <sbp> what family therefrom?
12:12:44 <sbp> ah, Wilfred the Hairy is interesting. "Wilfred was of Gothic lineage of the region of Carcassonne. [...] According to legend, he was the son of Wilfred of Arriaount (or Wilfred of Arri), a county near Prades. His father was murdered by Salomón and Wilfred became his avenger, killing the assassin. However Ramón de Abadal's study claimed him to be the son of Sunifred I of Barcelona, count of many counties under Louis the Pious and Charles the Bald."
12:13:58 <sbp> dunno Vratislaus I of Bohemia's parents...
12:14:08 <sbp> hardly any tabs left now
12:15:17 <sbp> Harthacnut of Denmark is another untracable line. 'Probably born in the 880s, he was either the son of an otherwise unknown "Sweyn", or, as presented by Ragnarssona þáttr, of the semi-mythic viking chieftain Sigurd Snake-in-the-Eye, himself one of the sons of the legendary Ragnar Lodbrok.'
12:17:07 <sbp> and that lineage goes up through legend to...
12:17:08 <sbp> "According to Hversu Noregr byggdist and Njal's Saga, he was the son of Halfdan the Valiant (also given as his father in the Ynglinga saga and the Hervarar saga), son of Harald the Old, son of Valdar, son of Roar (Hroðgar) of the house of Skjöldung (Scylding)."
12:17:32 <sbp> Hroðgar might be the Hroðgar that appears in Beowulf
12:19:17 <sbp> Baldwin I of Flanders... "Baldwin was the son of the forester Inghelram, also called Audacer, and had been created first count of Flanders in 862."
12:20:08 <Monty> sbp: You asked me to remind you to tell bjoern_ to remember "OMG RUN!!!"
12:20:32 <sbp> Liudolf, Duke of Saxony: "The Liudolfing House, also known as the Ottonian House, is named after him; he is its oldest known member."
12:20:36 <sbp> bjoern_: remember, OMG RUN!!!
12:21:08 <Monty> bjoern_: You asked me to remind you to OMG RUN!!!
12:21:12 <sbp> Ermengarde of Tours: "Her father was Hugh of Tours, a member of the Etichonen family, which claimed descent from the Merovingian Kings."
12:21:42 <bjoern_> OMG I better run
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12:22:13 <sbp> yeah! c'ya
12:22:17 <sbp> Odo I: "He belonged to the Udalriching family and was a son of Adrian, who had also held the county of Orléans, and possible of Waldrada, a Nibelungid."
12:23:08 <sbp> "Hugh or Hugo (c.780 – 20 October 837) was the count of Tours and Sens during the reigns of Charlemagne and Louis the Pious, until his disgrace in February 828. He was probably a son of Count Haicho of the House of the Etichonen."
12:24:51 <sbp> hmm, "9th century Frankish count. He is the oldest known member of the Elder House of Welf."
12:25:26 <sbp> ah here we go, Charlemagne
12:26:53 <sbp> "Bermudo I (also Vermudo or Veremund) was the king of Asturias from 788 or 789 to 791."
12:27:36 <sbp> "Gerold of Vinzgouw (730-799)"...
12:29:52 <sbp> "Leudwinus (St. Leudwinus, Leutwinus, Lievin, Liutwin); bishop and Count of Trier, 697-715 or 685-704; born c. 655"
12:30:26 <sbp> okay, this might be as far as I can go:
12:30:27 <sbp> "Pepin (or Pippin) of Landen (c. 580 – 27 February 640), also called the Elder or the Old, was the Mayor of the Palace of Austrasia under the Merovingian king Dagobert I from 623 to 629."
12:30:54 <sbp> his father was named... argh, Firefox is having problems
12:31:22 <sbp> not too surprising after what I've just put it through
12:32:17 <sbp> ah, Carloman
12:33:29 <sbp> ah no, here we go, another line is still tracable...
12:33:33 <sbp> "Arnulf of Metz (13 August 582 – 16 August 640) was a Frankish noble who had great influence in the Merovingian kingdoms as a bishop and was later canonized as a saint."
12:34:25 <sbp> rats, and that's as far as it goes!
12:34:35 <sbp> last tab, and it has "Uncertain ancestry" as a nice section: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnulf_of_Metz
12:35:37 <sbp> though another page says "(Arnoldus of Metz was a son of Senator Ansbertus of Gaul & Rome and Blithilde. Ansbertus was son of Tonantius of Rome and grandson of Tonantius Ferreolus.)"
12:36:24 <sbp> "Tonantius Ferreolus was a Praetoria Prefect of Gaul in 451. He was also seen at Rome in 469 and 475 and was known to be a friend and relative of Sidonius Apollinaris."
12:37:46 <sbp> and Sidonius Apollinaris... "Sidonius' relations have been traced over several generations, from his paternal grandfather's time in the narrative of a family's fortunes from prominence in late Roman time into subsequent decline in the 6th century under the Franks."
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12:49:26 *** kpreid (n=kpreid@cpe-24-59-154-165.twcny.res.rr.com) has joined #swhack
12:49:26 <Monty> hi kpreid
13:01:09 <bjoern_> Our Wappenspruch (you probably have some insanely complex term for it, like coat of arms motto) is, beware the win1252, Liiwer düüdj as slååw.
13:01:36 <bjoern_> I thought it's Lever düüd us slav, so I am wondering which one is right and which language they are in...
13:01:40 <sbp> .bytes Liiwer ddj as slw
13:01:42 <phenny> 'Liiwer ddj as slw'
13:01:45 <sbp> no win1252 there
13:02:09 <bjoern_> düüd as slååw
13:02:39 <sbp> two uumls and two arings? awesome
13:02:43 <bjoern_> Meaning, we are rather dead than slaves (or pay taxes! by some accounts)
13:03:04 <sbp> must be that crazy variant of German that you like?
13:03:08 <sbp> Low German?
13:03:21 <bjoern_> I don't think like is the right word
13:03:27 <sbp> well, I like it
13:03:30 <bjoern_> but yes, candidates would be low german, frisian, and danish
13:03:37 <bjoern_> though danish is not so likely
13:04:13 <bjoern_> could also be different dialects
13:04:27 <bjoern_> the special char version is much much more common on google
13:04:46 <sbp> doesn't anywhere give its origin?
13:04:54 <sbp> you'd think someone would at least know the language
13:05:16 <bjoern_> I hope so, but then Monty made me run...
13:05:18 <Monty> I reckon compact disc + minuets = fireworks!
13:05:50 <bjoern_> the first hit http://www.courrierinternational.com/article.asp?obj_id=45431 is french....
13:07:30 <bjoern_> seems it's a popular frisian dialect
13:07:38 <sbp> ooh
13:08:20 <bjoern_> not that the 18 hits on google are very suggestive
13:08:45 <bjoern_> Lever dod as Slaav is another variant, it seems
13:09:17 * darobin wonders why Monty was thinking of him
13:09:17 <Monty> heh. This is 'ported' to click on Sunday
13:09:38 <darobin> weird critter this Monty
13:09:39 <Monty> University research
13:09:46 <darobin> ah, that makes sense
13:09:49 <sbp> hehe
13:09:50 <darobin> bloody academics
13:31:07 <bjoern_> Lewwer duad üs Slaav seems a fairly authoriative version
13:32:51 <sbp> .wik Wappenspruch
13:32:54 <phenny> Can't find anything in Wikipedia for "Wappenspruch".
13:32:55 <sbp> .wik Wapentake
13:32:57 <phenny> "A hundred is a geographic division used in England, Denmark, South Australia and some parts of the USA, Germany, Sweden and Norway, which historically was used to divide a larger region into smaller administrative units." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wapentake
13:33:07 <sbp> .ety wapentake
13:33:10 <phenny> "division of certain Eng. counties (equivalent to a hundred in other places), O.E. wæpengetæc, from O.N. vapnatak, from vapna, gen. pl. of vapn 'weapon' + tak 'touching,' from taka 'to take, grasp.' Perhaps it originally was an armed muster with inspection of weapons, [...]" - http://etymonline.com/?term=wapentake
13:39:23 *** jewel (n=jewel@61.247.251.10) has joined #swhack
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14:25:10 <sbp> yay, #eurovision is starting to fill up
14:25:23 *** sbp changed the topic to: "Watching Eurovision? Try #eurovision"
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14:26:11 <sbp> Monty: remind me in 1 hour to advertise #eurovision some more
14:26:11 <Monty> sbp: Okay, I'll remind you about that on Sat May 12 16:21:07 BST 2007
14:26:15 <sbp> Monty: remind me in 2 hours to advertise #eurovision some more
14:26:15 <Monty> sbp: Okay, I'll remind you about that on Sat May 12 17:21:12 BST 2007
14:26:19 <sbp> Monty: remind me in 3 hours to advertise #eurovision some more
14:26:19 <Monty> sbp: Okay, I'll remind you about that on Sat May 12 18:21:16 BST 2007
14:26:22 <sbp> Monty: remind me in 4 hours to advertise #eurovision some more
14:26:22 <Monty> sbp: Okay, I'll remind you about that on Sat May 12 19:21:18 BST 2007
14:26:36 <sbp> Monty: remind me in 5 hours that EUROVISION IS ON ALREADY
14:26:36 <Monty> sbp: Okay, I'll remind you about that on Sat May 12 20:21:33 BST 2007
14:27:00 <bjoern_> Well, so far the advertizing didn't help much it seems
14:27:27 <sbp> well I didn't do any so far
14:27:34 *** cre8radix (n=cre8radi@82.152.213.68) has joined #swhack
14:27:36 <sbp> those people just got there randomly, it seems
14:27:43 <sbp> well, no advertising except here
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14:37:51 <bjoern_> Sean Palmer Beta?
14:37:54 <sbp> hehe
14:37:56 <sbp> could be
14:38:38 <sbp> (for those who are missing the #eurovision fun: someone in there just started ranting on and on at me about Alice Roberts. now I like Alice Roberts as much as the next guy, but no idea why he picked me to talk about her for. I think he's confusing me with "spb" since he's called me that each time)
14:40:22 <sbp> I keep telling him I'm sbp, but he doesn't seem to believe me. which is fun
14:41:20 <bjoern_> @JibberJim++
14:41:49 <sbp> hehe
14:42:13 * kpreid is watching Highlights of #eurovision, aka #swhack
14:43:03 <sbp> the whole channel is a highlight
14:43:06 <xower> Wow. Four and a half hours of watching Windows get installed and reinstalled...
14:43:09 <sbp> you're watching only metahighlights
14:43:14 <sbp> xower: and does it work?
14:43:26 <xower> This just feels amazingly productive use of my time.
14:43:42 <xower> Define "work" in the context of Windows...
14:43:44 *** eurovision (n=eurovisi@dslb-084-056-242-037.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #swhack
14:43:52 <eurovision> Hi. I'm eurovision.
14:43:59 <sbp> hello eurovision and welcome to Swhack
14:44:06 <sbp> xower: more than 5% uptime
14:44:20 <xower> Not there yet, no, sadly.
14:44:42 <sbp> oh well, at least it's something to aim for
14:44:52 <sbp> a furphy, a Will-o'-the-wisp...
14:51:46 <sbp> poor guy needs to see the Wizard of Oz
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14:56:07 <sbp> you know what I'd like? a channel mode which only lets a certain percentage of a user's lines through
14:57:13 <sbp> ooh, or rate-limits them!
14:57:19 <sbp> that's an idea
14:59:25 <kpreid> freenode provides the J mode, but that's limiting joins, not messages
14:59:56 <sbp> yeah, that's no good
15:00:08 <sbp> I think it's a good idea, especially for really large channels where you could blanket apply it
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15:07:40 <sbp> 2004-05-16 09:10:40 <sbp> !lilo! <sbp> It's that time of the year again: Easter gone and Christmas still to come, the Europeans subject themselves to Eurovision. The celebrations start in #eurovision now, but Terry Wogan was sadly unable to make it. [see #eurovision --Ed.]
15:09:09 *** martianc1de has quit (Client Quit)
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15:10:16 <Arnia> #eurovision should merge with #europides
15:13:29 <sbp> europides, eumenides
15:15:24 <eurovision> got pix of europides?
15:26:12 <Monty> sbp: You asked me to remind you to advertise #eurovision some more
15:27:04 *** sbp changed the topic to: "Watching Eurovision? Try #eurovision (seriously)"
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15:57:37 <bjoern_> Half an hour into #eurovision advertizing, zero effect.
15:58:17 <sbp> yeah, I need to up my strategies
16:03:59 *** madewokherd` (n=urk@c-24-3-50-207.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) has joined #swhack
16:03:59 <Monty> hi madewokherd`, how ya doing?
16:04:01 <phenny> Monty: shh, don't let anyone know you're around!
16:04:09 <Monty> dahut: for months of eloquence (I couldn't quite well preserved records out now would at my '82 and indenting and Piffle is on BBC to be found.
16:04:13 <dahut> Monty: I am very pleased to meet you Monty. Your purpose is months of eloquence you could not quite well preserved records out now would at your 82 and indenting and Piffle is on BBC to be found.
16:04:13 <Monty> YOYO
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16:07:45 <JibberJim> bjoern_, Do you know what event mozilla fires when it gets the HOME key pressed?
16:07:48 *** darobin has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:08:24 <JibberJim> NS_APPCOMMAND_EVENT - but I've no idea what that is to be able to actually capture it
16:08:28 <bjoern_> I have no idea! I could guess, but I guess my guessing is as good as your guessing
16:08:50 <JibberJim> it's no keyboard one
16:09:07 <JibberJim> but it does fire some event I can see it in http://lxr.mozilla.org/mozilla1.8/source/widget/public/nsGUIEvent.h#93
16:09:17 <JibberJim> but how I get that to something I can actually capture I've not got a clue
16:11:34 <bjoern_> try command, commandupdate?
16:12:01 <bjoern_> according to http://esw.w3.org/topic/List_of_events I found events of these names at some point in the source.
16:12:38 <bjoern_> seem to be xul events though
16:14:00 <JibberJim> xul's fine
16:15:47 <bjoern_> (I assume of course you tried keypress, keyup, keyup already)
16:17:05 <JibberJim> yes
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16:26:43 <Monty> sbp: You asked me to remind you to advertise #eurovision some more
16:28:28 <bjoern_> ----------------------------
16:28:28 <bjoern_> PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT:
16:28:28 <bjoern_> ----------------------------\~
16:28:28 <bjoern_> Join #eurovision! It's great!
16:28:28 <bjoern_> ----------------------------\~
16:28:54 * bjoern_ wonders what's up with those \~
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16:32:34 <JibberJim> nop, not command :(
16:33:48 <bjoern_> ask #developers on irc.moz?
16:34:10 <bjoern_> I had a brief look at the source but couldn't find anything obvious.
16:34:26 <bjoern_> my guess is you just don't get an actual key event
16:34:46 <bjoern_> I suppose you get a scroll and such
16:34:48 <JibberJim> as always with #developers in moz no-one ever answers :(
16:35:05 * JibberJim asked the other day
16:36:38 <bjoern_> then I don't know, short of making a debug build, setting a breakpoint, and go step by step from there, after pressing the home key.
16:36:56 <bjoern_> of course nobody can possibly be keen to load mozilla in a debugger...
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16:38:00 <JibberJim> yeah
16:38:05 <bjoern_> well that was a short visit rob1n!
16:38:17 <rob1n> heh
16:38:31 <eurovision> Yeah, you could have said "hi" at least.
16:38:31 <rob1n> i don't live in europe ^.^
16:38:41 <eurovision> so what?
16:39:01 <rob1n> i was just curious to see what eurovision was
16:39:12 <eurovision> .wik Eurovision
16:39:15 <phenny> "The Eurovision Song Contest is an annual competition held among active member countries of the European Broadcasting Union (EBU), in which participating countries each submit a song to be performed on live television." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurovision
16:39:24 <jsled> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHR491s3iSw
16:39:29 <rob1n> eurovision, already read that :)
16:40:22 <bjoern_> right jsled, that's eurovision.... I am not sure how representative that is though.
16:41:06 <bjoern_> lyrics sound partially german...
16:41:13 <bjoern_> they probably are, then, I guess...
16:41:43 <bjoern_> indeed
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17:26:44 <Monty> sbp: You asked me to remind you to advertise #eurovision some more
17:26:59 *** sbp changed the topic to: "Watching Eurovision? Try #eurovision (seriously!!)"
17:27:14 *** bjoern_ changed the topic to: "--->>> Watching Eurovision? Try #eurovision (seriously!!) <<<---"
17:29:21 <bjoern_> OMG SOMEONE ON --- #EUROVISION --- JUST OFFERED --- FREE --- #SWHACKY SNACKS --- FOR EVERYBODY!
17:31:18 <sbp> gee, FREE you say Mr. Bjoern?! we'd better join to GET those #SWHACKY SNACKS!!
17:31:24 <sbp> c'mon, EVERYBODY!
17:31:52 <bjoern_> Yes Mr. sbp, FREE indeed!
17:32:16 <bjoern_> However, it is a LIMITED TIME OFFER, better get going!
17:32:59 <sbp> well gee whiz Mr. Bjoern, I'm there ALREADY but nobody else seems to want any #SWHACKY SNACKS FOR FREE!! are they all STUPID HEADS, Mr. Bjoern??
17:33:32 <sbp> perhaps they don't KNOW the channel is #eurovision
17:33:44 <sbp> but it IS!! it's #eurovision
17:35:26 <bjoern_> Mr. sbp! It just doesn't make sense! Just join #EUROVISION and get FREE #swhacky snacks, who could resist the offer?
17:36:00 *** MoiraA (i=moira@gateway/tor/x-0c43cf7f2622c9cb) has joined #swhack
17:36:11 <sbp> MoiraA! #eurovision
17:48:43 *** Moira (i=moira@gateway/tor/x-a8db0d9a39aa98d7) has joined #swhack
17:48:43 <Monty> lo Moira
17:48:58 <Moira> ah hi
17:49:00 <Moira> sorry sb[
17:49:04 <Moira> *sbp
17:49:22 <Moira> took vista out of sleep and had a keyboard that didn't work so I couldn't type anything
17:49:31 * Moira joins the channel
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17:50:11 <sbp> whoo! hello!
17:52:11 <jetscreamer> woohoo!
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18:06:21 *** jetscreamer (n=jetscrea@unaffiliated/jetscreamer) has joined #swhack
18:06:21 <Monty> lo jetscreamer
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18:26:45 <Monty> sbp: You asked me to remind you to advertise #eurovision some more
18:27:39 <Moira> lol
18:28:00 *** Moira is now known as MoiraA
18:30:07 <deltab> Culture Show on BBC2 first
18:35:24 *** cskaterun (n=cskateru@cpe-66-27-65-108.san.res.rr.com) has joined #swhack
18:35:25 <deltab> hill figures and other big art
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18:38:30 <bjoern_> perigrin! you must join #eurovision at once!
18:38:30 <eurovision> Indeed! At once!
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18:40:23 <zool> i'd forgotten about this place
18:41:39 <bjoern_> zool! You are not on #eurovision! It is imperative that you change that immediately!
18:41:44 <deltab> Avenue Q does Trainspotting
18:45:27 <sbp> zool! yo
18:46:53 <zool> y0 sbp
18:49:26 *** MattKelly (n=asdf@cpe-68-174-78-236.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #swhack
18:52:11 * sbp asks the current Freenode Czar very nicely for a #eurovision announcement...
18:52:25 <sbp> or Czaress, actually, I think
18:52:57 <madewokherd`> should I start paying for amazon.com orders with a bank account?
18:53:20 <sbp> with a bank account? I thought you could old pay via a card?
18:53:23 <sbp> even if it's just a debit card
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18:53:32 <madewokherd`> you can
18:53:32 <JibberJim> czarina's aren't they?
18:54:07 <madewokherd`> that's what I do currently
18:54:10 *** jm3 (n=jm3@c-76-21-126-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #swhack
18:54:13 <sbp> whoo!
18:54:14 <sbp> 19:48 -christel/Wallops- It's that time of year again, the europeans get together to celebrate the eurovision song contest. Personally I'll be sporting the winning costumes from 1986 to celebrate with friends, but you may find Terry Wogan and friends in #eurovision
18:54:47 <madewokherd`> but I could skip the card..
18:55:03 <madewokherd`> and, um, be paying for less things with cards..
18:57:07 <madewokherd`> forget it
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19:01:56 <sbp> oh dear!
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19:11:24 <thelsdj> hahaha, Ex-Machina comic is great, theres this time traveller guy from the future and he's trying to figure out where/when he is and how it might be different from what his history is and he's talking to some kind of AI in his suit:
19:13:31 <thelsdj> "Bhota, if I can't talk with Alistir then i need *information*. Connect me to Gharity, please." "Bhota can't opne the page 'http://gharity.com/' because it can't find the server 'gharity.com'" "Skyvann?" "Bhota can't open the page 'http://skyvann.com/' be--" "Tell me they atleast have wikipedia."
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19:25:15 <xower> thelsdj: URL?
19:26:46 <Monty> sbp: You asked me to remind you that EUROVISION IS ON ALREADY
19:27:49 <sbp> YES SHUT UP I'M TRYING TO WATCH IT!
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19:48:39 <kpreid> thelsdj: URL?
19:50:19 *** l7 has quit ("Lost terminal")
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19:58:20 <thelsdj> xower, kpreid: http://www.dccomics.com/graphic_novels/?gn=2500
19:59:01 <thelsdj> theres a pdf of issue #1 for download
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19:59:31 <Monty> lo tonybaloney
19:59:47 <tonybaloney> 'afternoon, Monty
19:59:47 <Monty> Does talking about this bother you ?
19:59:54 <tonybaloney> Monty, talking about what?
19:59:57 <Monty> It's true to say that phonecards is exothermic :P
20:00:11 <thelsdj> The basic idea is a guy who can talk to/control machines tries his hand as a superhero and manages to save one of the twin towers on 9/11 and gives up the super hero gig to become mayor of NYC, but his superheroe days tend to follow him
20:15:05 *** danja (n=danja@banff-72-29-239-177.mycanopy.net) has joined #swhack
20:22:50 <Mike_L> everyone says that inflation is bad for an economy, but isn't it just as bad as taxes?
20:23:46 <Mike_L> could a nation prosper by eliminating all taxes and financing government operations with new money?
20:31:18 * Mike_L has discovered a great term: war of choice
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20:32:33 <Monty> hi nwalsh, how ya doing?
20:32:35 <phenny> Monty: shh, don't let anyone know you're around!
20:32:40 <Monty> Doesn't parrot/pugs have to predict the page 'http://skyvann.com/' be--" "Tell me
20:40:05 <perigrin> Monty, I think they've managed to optimize that away
20:40:05 <Monty> Can you elaborate on that ?
20:40:15 <perigrin> Monty, you'll have to ask a parrot/pugs person
20:40:16 <Monty> adores twattish fat CDs :(
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21:51:15 <Monty> it's bear__!
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22:05:00 <mumbles> anyone care to help me with my setup ?
22:05:04 <mumbles> of phenny ?
22:05:29 <MoiraA> we're all fascinated by the eurovision at the moment
22:05:34 <mumbles> pah
22:05:43 <mumbles> whos the current faverate
22:05:57 <MoiraA> serbia
22:06:11 <MoiraA> everyone from #swhack is in #eurovision
22:06:14 <MoiraA> come on in
22:06:14 *** bear42 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:12:22 *** rob1n (n=rob1n@unaffiliated/rob1n) has joined #swhack
22:12:22 <Monty> it's rob1n!
22:12:41 <rob1n> i. hate. mac. os. x.
22:14:39 <mumbles> :P
22:14:49 <mumbles> sbp, when your back in here ive got a question :P
22:17:44 *** DrBacchus has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:20:19 <sbp> mumbles: fire!
22:20:35 <mumbles> just about to pastbin it up
22:20:58 <mumbles> im trying to do an services auth bit in irc.py
22:22:51 <tav> hehe, wonder how many people have done that
22:23:22 <sbp> heh, hundreds. there's a recipe in the logs somewhere...
22:24:07 <sbp> 23:25:23 <Ash> self.__self__."self".msg(match("||\2358sV@!!S/").()""
22:24:07 <sbp> 23:25:41 <sbp> on the other hand, after this bit:
22:24:07 <sbp> 23:25:42 <sbp> elif args[0] == '251':
22:24:07 <sbp> 23:25:42 <sbp> # Vanilla and ircu/asuka ircds at least seem to require this
22:24:07 <sbp> 23:25:42 <sbp> # Cf. http://swhack.com/logs/2005-12-05#T19-32-36
22:24:09 <sbp> 23:25:42 <sbp> for channel in self.channels:
22:24:11 <sbp> 23:25:42 <sbp> self.write(('JOIN', channel))
22:24:14 <sbp> 23:26:04 <sbp> you could do: self.msg('NickServ', 'IDENTIFY something')
22:24:25 <sbp> 23:26:51 <sbp> lightdifference: so it would look like:
22:24:25 <sbp> 23:26:51 <sbp> for channel in self.channels:
22:24:25 <sbp> 23:26:51 <sbp> self.write(('JOIN', channel))
22:24:25 <sbp> 23:26:51 <sbp> self.msg('NickServ', 'IDENTIFY something')
22:24:34 <sbp> - http://swhack.com/logs/2006-04-14#T23-26-04
22:24:36 <sbp> there you go
22:24:42 <sbp> add appropriate whitespace though
22:25:03 <mumbles> http://paste.lisp.org/display/41136
22:27:42 <sbp> mumbles: you probably don't need the @CServe.borknet.org bit
22:27:50 <sbp> but looks like it should work otherwise
22:27:57 <mumbles> how about the sethost bit?
22:31:03 <mumbles> mumbles@moo:~/jade$ ./phenny.py
22:31:03 <mumbles> Traceback (most recent call last):
22:31:03 <mumbles> File "./phenny.py", line 9, in ?
22:31:03 <mumbles> import irc
22:31:03 <mumbles> File "/home/mumbles/jade/irc.py", line 79
22:31:04 <mumbles> if args[0] == 'PING':
22:31:05 <mumbles> ^
22:31:08 <mumbles> whops
22:32:15 <mumbles> but yeh tahts the response
22:33:34 <mumbles> line nine responds to import socket, asyncore, asynchat
22:33:54 *** tonybaloney has quit ("Have Fun, everyone :)")
22:34:15 <mumbles> whops
22:34:25 <mumbles> import irc even
22:35:18 *** perigrin has quit ("Sleep per chance to ... zzzz *snork* zzzz")
22:36:25 *** jetscreamer has quit ()
22:40:44 <mumbles> what dose expected an indented block mean ?
22:41:17 * mumbles realy dose suck at python
22:44:07 * mumbles decides to wiat till ozafy gets back from whatever hes doing and bug him
22:44:36 <mumbles> thanks sbp
22:44:53 <mumbles> guess i should stay with html
22:45:40 <deltab> mumbles: what is it saying that about?
22:45:44 * bjoern_ notes sbp went off 15 minutes ago
22:45:54 <mumbles> yeh thought i would say thanks anyway
22:46:01 <mumbles> and i dont know why this code isent working -- since it did work
22:46:02 <deltab> mumbles: you probably have a line that isn't indented that should be
22:46:09 <mumbles> yeh just cant find it
22:46:21 <deltab> it should tell you which line
22:46:36 <mumbles> 85 was a blank line
22:46:40 *** cre8radix (n=cre8radi@i577B5D97.versanet.de) has joined #swhack
22:46:40 <Monty> But what does cre8radix have to do with the price of fish?
22:46:43 <phenny> Hush there, Monty.
22:46:43 <Monty> Muschi?
22:47:47 <cre8radix> lol
22:49:32 <mumbles> deltab, whats the normal ident ? 3 spaces for "for" and def lines and antoher 3 for others?
22:50:22 *** schepers (n=schepers@cpe-069-134-024-226.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #swhack
22:50:22 <Monty> hi schepers
22:51:20 <deltab> mumbles: 4 for each block
22:51:46 <deltab> mumbles: I don't know what you mean by "others"
22:52:18 <mumbles> by block you mean lines ?
22:53:34 <mumbles> yay getting a new erorr message now
22:55:44 <bjoern_> ha, now the 29p shifted to "Marija Serifovic from Serbia stormed it to win the top place. But despite a sterling performance, Scooch only managed a paltry 29 points." -- http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/eurovision/2007/ even though they've corrected the other article.
22:55:49 <deltab> mumbles: the body of a loop, conditional, definition, etc.
22:56:58 <deltab> mumbles: some other languages enclose blocks in { }
22:57:27 <mumbles> unindent does not match any outer indentation level
22:57:27 <mumbles> thats the new one
22:57:44 <deltab> your indentation is inconsistent
22:58:20 <deltab> pastebin it
23:00:20 <mumbles> deltab, http://paste.lisp.org/display/41137
23:02:42 <deltab> the comments above it are only indented by 2
23:02:54 *** bjoern_ changed the topic to: "Eurovision result: Draw between France and UK!"
23:03:41 <deltab> ah, after the elif ...: there's no executable code
23:03:52 <mumbles> ?
23:03:58 <deltab> elif args[0] == '251':
23:04:10 <mumbles> what do i need to put ?
23:04:14 <deltab> but then there's just a comment, nothing to execute
23:04:24 *** cskaterun (n=cskateru@cpe-66-27-65-108.san.res.rr.com) has joined #swhack
23:04:35 <mumbles> yeh
23:04:38 <deltab> if you don't want anything to happen, use pass
23:08:54 <mumbles> thanks deltab
23:10:49 <deltab> lines 87 to 93 should be indented to be part of the function def
23:14:42 <mumbles> wee new wrror message
23:14:44 <mumbles> :p
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23:37:12 <MoiraA> night!
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23:58:35 <Monty> lo l7
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