00:01:55 <bjoern_> .gc cutierust
00:01:57 <phenny> cutierust: 0
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01:17:01 <Arnia> "The Weeping Angels are the only psychopaths in the Universe to kill in a friendly way; they blast you into the past and let you live to death."
01:20:12 <kpreid> hi Arnia
01:20:32 <Arnia> hey
01:21:56 <MoiraA> hi
01:22:06 * MoiraA is just off to bed actually
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01:37:52 <bjoern_> loggy, pointer?
01:37:52 <loggy> http://swhack.com/logs/2007-06-10#T01-37-52
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01:55:18 * crschmidt yawns
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04:17:52 <Monty> hey BigJibby
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07:42:13 <d8uv> Anyone on?
07:42:22 <Mike_L> nope
07:42:47 <d8uv> Awesome. Noone will see this then
07:43:08 <sbp> d8uv
07:43:16 <Mike_L> only the whole world will see it through the logs
07:43:17 <d8uv> Oh hi sbp
07:43:32 <sbp> totally just got here. reading backscroll and stuff
07:45:48 <Mike_L> this is the only channel, in which I idle, where backscroll is interesting
07:45:57 <sbp> d8uv: woah, cool, it is coming along
07:46:18 <sbp> ooh, negaflog
07:46:20 <d8uv> Yeah, I need to rewrite the first p
07:46:53 <d8uv> Make it bigger, because there isn't enough space between the header and the content
07:47:11 <d8uv> Or I could just make the header smaller, which sounds way better to me
07:47:49 <sbp> yeah, just a little
07:48:09 <d8uv> Back to the gimp shop, slaves!
07:48:25 <sbp> hehe
07:48:27 <d8uv> (Also I wanna do another comic tonight)
07:48:37 <sbp> COMPUTE CONVOLUTION MATRICES IN YOUR HEADS
07:48:42 <sbp> cool
07:48:50 * sbp is just about to go on the newscrawl
07:48:58 <sbp> WWDC tomorrow. I'm actually excited, for once!
07:49:04 <sbp> I wonder if there's a covert live feed somewhere...
07:49:44 <Mike_L> url?
07:50:21 <sbp> bwahaha: http://www.snoopy.com/comics/peanuts/archive/images/peanuts2007061174570.jpg
07:50:28 <sbp> Mike_L: to WWDC, or to the feed?
07:50:38 <sbp> if WWDC, JFGI. if the feed, if only I knew!
07:51:16 <d8uv> WHAT WOULD DEC CASTRATE
07:51:33 <d8uv> Probably Ant. Actually they probably both are
07:51:43 <Mike_L> d8uv's negaflog :P
07:52:01 <d8uv> I'll negaflog you >:(
07:52:24 <sbp> ...: "Under the guise of fighting spam, five of the largest Internet service providers in the U.S. plan to start charging businesses for guaranteed delivery of their e-mails. In other words, with regular service we may or may not deliver your email. If you want it delivered, you will have to pay deluxe." - http://slashdot.org/articles/07/06/09/199259.shtml
07:52:56 <sbp> d8uv: how the hell do you know about Ant and Dec? you're not supposed to know about them. the madness is supposed to be contained!
07:53:38 <sbp> they were on Byker Grove for goodness' sake. nobody's supposed to know about *that* outside of Newcastle
07:54:04 <sbp> (ooh Byker Byker, Byker-GROVE!)
07:54:46 <sbp> http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/07/06/09/1454234.shtml - come on, BBC!
07:55:04 <d8uv> I've never seen them, I just know they host stuff that I would normally like, but due to their presence probably ruins it
07:55:15 <sbp> Onstad Slashdotted: http://apple.slashdot.org/apple/07/06/09/1436210.shtml
07:55:25 <sbp> heh, good summary
07:56:12 <Mike_L> oh it's d8uv.org
07:56:28 <d8uv> Now with even *less* content!
07:57:32 <sbp> bwahaha
07:57:32 <sbp> FireSlash: Fastest apartment tour EVER.
07:57:32 <sbp> FireSlash: I'm checking out this rather nicely priced place. Manager (or one of his lackys, not shure) walk me into the apartment
07:57:33 <sbp> FireSlash: First thing he "points out" is how quiet the rooms are, because of the thick walls
07:57:33 <sbp> FireSlash: So I shout "CAN ANYONE HEAR ME?!"
07:57:33 <sbp> FireSlash: I got one "Yeah!" and one "SHUT THE HELL UP I'M WATCHIN' JUDGE JUDY"
07:57:37 <sbp> - http://www.bash.org/?771460
07:58:03 <Mike_L> d8uv: zap is trippy
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07:59:58 <d8uv> zap is awesome
08:00:34 <d8uv> Day changed to 10 Jun 2007
08:01:21 <Mike_L> d8uv: did you make each of those zap nodes?
08:01:28 <d8uv> Most of them
08:01:41 <d8uv> sbp made the "My First Node" one
08:04:50 <sbp> d8uv: http://www.dismalworld.com/must_see/unforgettable_photos.php
08:08:24 <sbp> "Legend had it that there was a clutch of villages on the island of Tanna in Vanuatu which - as bizarre as it may seem - worshipped Prince Philip as a god." - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/6734469.stm
08:10:03 <d8uv> Also, "Talkshow with Spike Ferensten" is a pretty good show
08:10:32 <Mike_L> have you read Chomsky?
08:10:55 <d8uv> I throw rotting meat onto people who quote Chomsky
08:13:19 <sbp> .wik Spike Ferensten
08:13:23 <phenny> Can't find anything in Wikipedia for "Spike Ferensten".
08:14:15 <sbp> .wik Spike Ferenstein
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08:14:18 <phenny> Can't find anything in Wikipedia for "Spike Ferenstein".
08:14:19 <Mike_L> d8uv: I'm reading his book, 'Understanding Power'
08:15:13 <Mike_L> I've never read anything like it before
08:15:44 <d8uv> It's like a perfect cross of Early Conan, and The Late Late Show
08:15:58 <Mike_L> do you think it's not serious?
08:16:00 <sbp> cool. but how do you spell it, really?
08:16:23 <Mike_L> .wik Spike F
08:16:30 <phenny> "For those of you who don't know, this is my project... thing..." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Dark_Ermac/Pong_Kombat_FAQs
08:16:41 <d8uv> Mike_L: I'd be more interested if people who read Chomsky didn't...
08:18:08 <d8uv> I can't say they piss me off, but they often quickly get to that state
08:18:33 <Mike_L> d8uv: have you ever read Chomsky?
08:18:50 <sbp> hopefully he's not that stupid to have
08:19:03 <Mike_L> I'm looking for people who have read him and disagree
08:19:06 <d8uv> Mike_L: Have you ever had 7 dicks in your ass at once?
08:19:20 <Mike_L> d8uv: fortunately, no
08:19:43 <sbp> but you suspect without experience that you'd dislike it...
08:19:53 <Mike_L> sbp: indeed
08:20:14 <sbp> .gc "Chomsky is like 7 dicks in the ass"
08:20:16 <phenny> "Chomsky is like 7 dicks in the ass": 0
08:20:23 <sbp> the great thing about .gc is that it's mention, not use
08:20:24 <d8uv> It's because people who read Chomsky are such elitist assholes that I fear turning into one
08:20:39 <d8uv> Same with Apple people.
08:20:48 <Mike_L> d8uv: in this particular book, he makes a lot of serious indictments of the US press... what I've read so far is really depressing
08:22:29 * sbp is trying to find the best critique of Chomsky that he's seen... can't find it!
08:22:34 <Mike_L> I'm just looking for people who have actually read what he says and can offer me some well-reasoned contrary information
08:23:21 <Mike_L> because if he is right, then by his own theory of the US press, he would be ostracized simply for putting forward the theory
08:24:16 <sbp> oh, here we go
08:24:17 <sbp> http://www.tlg.uci.edu/~opoudjis/Play/antichomsky.html
08:24:28 <sbp> Mike_L: see point 8 especially
08:24:34 <Mike_L> sbp: reading...
08:26:45 <Mike_L> sbp: interesting
08:27:20 <Mike_L> "This man is no thorn in the side of the military-industrial complex --- who have a knack of neutralising would-be thorns by letting them cry out in the wilderness, anyway."
08:27:45 <Mike_L> I don't know much about linguistics, so the first 7 points don't mean anything to me
08:28:04 <sbp> well he is mostly known as being a linguist
08:28:12 <d8uv> Really?
08:28:24 <sbp> I've seen people whose criticism of Chomsky is merely "he's an okay linguist, but his politics... I wish he'd shut up"
08:28:32 <Mike_L> ok
08:28:48 <Mike_L> this book that I'm reading is about politics
08:28:50 <d8uv> He's mostly known by me for being the gods for people like the douches at democratic underground
08:29:21 <sbp> Democratic Underground - too scared to show their faces? :-)
08:29:38 <Mike_L> the first 128 pages are like a walk through the US's giant political outhouse... everything stinks
08:29:51 <sbp> I like point 1, which boils down to smug americentrism
08:30:05 <Mike_L> ok
08:30:42 <Mike_L> what about his theory of propaganda and the government being completely subordinate to powerful businesses?
08:30:43 <sbp> it would have been interesting if we could've had a European Chomsky too and see how they both co-developed
08:31:13 <sbp> yeah, I think that's valid. he has some good points. I think the overall gist of what he's saying with respect to the media thing is very powerful, actually
08:31:35 <sbp> inasmuch as it's been filtered to me through AaronSw, a bit of actual reading of him, and other sources
08:31:46 <sbp> I don't have much exposure to him
08:31:55 <Mike_L> yes, after reading Arron S.'s blog I got the book from my library
08:32:00 <sbp> aha
08:32:17 <Mike_L> some of the stuff in it is pretty damning...
08:32:25 <d8uv> Ok, I've have enough arguing. Time for the definitive answer
08:32:33 <d8uv> .rate "Noam Chomsky"
08:32:38 <sbp> ooh, good idea
08:32:40 <phenny> "Noam Chomsky": 97.14% (10 rocks; 431 rules; 7 sucks; 6 blows)
08:32:45 <Mike_L> for example, Chomsky reports that the US was paying terrorists to blow up stuff in Cuba during the Cuban Missile Crisis
08:32:48 <sbp> ouch
08:33:05 <bjoern_> lisppaste2: url?
08:33:05 <lisppaste2> To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/swhack and enter your paste.
08:33:15 <sbp> aha, just as I suspected...
08:33:16 <sbp> "See Noam Chomsky, Rules and Representations"
08:33:23 <sbp> you have to discount most of the "rules" results
08:33:37 <Mike_L> I looked up one source that says on Nov 8, 1962 a US-paid team blew up a factory in Cuba. This was right in the middle of the missile crisis
08:34:09 <Mike_L> in his book he says that 'hundreds of people' were killed, although I haven't checked his other source for this figure
08:34:10 <d8uv> Again I don't have anything against Chomsky, just his fans
08:34:18 <Mike_L> d8uv: ok
08:34:40 <sbp> I have things against some of Chomsky, and some of his fans :-)
08:34:40 <Arnia> d8uv: surprisingly that works both in politics and linguistics
08:34:48 <Mike_L> anyway, I was just wondering if this book was a load of bull and twisted facts or if it was mostly based on reality
08:35:03 <d8uv> Probably both
08:35:15 <sbp> Mike_L: well, you can check 'em. was the factory source credible?
08:35:47 <Arnia> Although, from the linguistic side one cannot doubt his genius; even if one disagrees with his conclusions the fact he could even ask the questions he did is astonishing
08:36:29 * Arnia notes that there is a strong tendency for linguists to become involved in politics or sociology
08:37:07 <Mike_L> sbp: the factory source is a paper in International Security that doesn't cite a particular source for that item. I would have to go through the main source of the paper - the EXCOMM transcripts. Unfortunately the ones online only go through Oct 28
08:37:37 <lisppaste2> bjoern_ pasted "utf8 encoder - it was a lot simpler before I started fixing endian problems..." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/42535
08:37:59 <sbp> ah, "unknown credibility". now repeat for a statistically significant sample of the facts... :-)
08:38:05 <bjoern_> I'd like a golf match for utf8 encoders...
08:38:19 <Mike_L> I wish there was a wiki where his fans could provide more data that the footnotes on http://www.understandingpower.com/
08:38:27 * sbp waves >> to | bjoern_
08:38:35 <bjoern_> HELLO !
08:38:47 <Mike_L> sbp: well it's an MIT Press journal :-/
08:38:56 <sbp> Mike_L: ooh, you should propose that to AaronSw. I think he actually started just such a thing
08:39:01 <sbp> but I don't know what happened to it
08:39:06 <sbp> oh. heh
08:39:14 <Mike_L> I've never contacted him
08:39:50 <Mike_L> I'll have to wait until my library gets the other source through Inter-Library Loan... should be next week
08:39:57 <sbp> just namedrop me or Swhack or... good grief, if you put the subject "NOAM CHOMSKY OMG" he'll read it
08:40:19 <Arnia> I feel to understand Chomsky's view of history and politics one must understand his linguistics and computer science
08:40:26 <Mike_L> haha
08:40:41 <sbp> "Hot Noam Chomsky on Daniel Bernstein Debate Action!"
08:40:57 <sbp> "Reserve Your Tickets Now"
08:41:36 <sbp> I owe him email actually; I'll ask him where the wiki went
08:41:56 * Arnia just rambles until his leg settles down
08:42:13 <Mike_L> I have a personal interest in this political stuff because 1) I'm a US citizen and partially culpable for the crimes of my country and 2) my father is ultra-right-wing and I want some hard facts to refute his propaganda
08:42:13 <d8uv> night
08:42:21 <bjoern_> NIGHT !
08:42:29 <Mike_L> g'night d8uv
08:43:07 <Arnia> Mike_L: as long as you find facts to refute your own :)
08:43:10 <d8uv> Mike_L: Yeah, go ahead and fight that ultra-right-wing with some ultra-left-wing stuff. At least it's from the left and not dogma at all
08:43:13 * Mike_L gives up installing Debian 3.1r4 since the package downloads always fail :(
08:43:27 <Mike_L> Arnia: I'm trying to keep an open mind
08:43:48 <Arnia> Mike_L: impossible... everyone merely tries to keep their own mind :)
08:43:56 * Arnia is very cynical today
08:44:05 <Mike_L> d8uv: I've come from the ultra-right-wing so I'm trying to keep from sliding into the same sort of madness on the other side :P
08:44:47 <Arnia> I'm a leftist, rightist, conservative, liberal.
08:45:15 <bjoern_> BUZZWORD APPROVED !
08:45:18 <Arnia> (little 'c' conservative; I have no alliance to any party :p)
08:45:33 <sbp> we should make a political partai
08:45:35 <sbp> the Yi Partai?
08:45:46 <sbp> 'night d8uv!
08:45:55 <Arnia> sbp: I wouldn't want to be a member of any political party insane enough to agree with me
08:45:58 <bjoern_> people would mistake that for something Y!
08:46:17 <sbp> Arnia: yeah, I've been wondering about that
08:46:29 <sbp> obviously I support the nearest mainstream party to my views, but...
08:46:38 <sbp> it's such a rough fit I'm not sure I could join in
08:46:49 <sbp> unless I ended up with any sort of significant steerage
08:46:58 <sbp> but I wonder what sort of levels that all needs to be at
08:47:39 <Mike_L> I haven't been able to support either mainstream US party for several years
08:48:03 <bjoern_> I VOTE FOR KODOS !
08:48:05 <sbp> well, I meant "vote" by support
08:48:08 <sbp> bjoern_: ehheh
08:48:26 <sbp> not give them money or use their bumper stickers
08:49:06 <sbp> but the problem is that if you don't support the party that best fits your own views as best you can, then you're not minimising the chance that a party further away from your own views is going to get in
08:49:29 <Arnia> My thing is that I believe in strong government, but not nanny-state government. I am very conservative, and dislike the raising of 'rights' to the level of axioms, but equally I get pissed off by thought-police policies
08:49:40 <sbp> on the other hand, you don't want people confusing the mainstreamists' bizzarities for your own rational points of view :-)
08:50:11 <Mike_L> haha!
08:50:52 <Arnia> I want Charles Kennedy back :(
08:50:52 <sbp> I wouldn't mind the nanny-state if it actually worked to reduce crime and blah blah
08:51:01 <sbp> yeah, I dunno what's up with Ming
08:51:07 <Mike_L> I can't support either party after they voted away fundamental US citizen rights and tolerated the trampling of other rights
08:51:08 <sbp> he's not really a great leader, is he?
08:51:21 <Arnia> sbp: Oh I object to it on the grounds that it is stifling creativity and originality
08:51:23 <sbp> Cameron's caning everyone. his panache is scary
08:51:42 <sbp> Arnia: creativity and originality in dealing with such problems, you mean?
08:52:04 <Arnia> sbp: which societies need for pragmatic reasons, in the same way that Cheetahs could really do with some genetic creativity and originality
08:52:36 <Arnia> Cameron isn't doing as well as he should do... he's demonstrated to the public that he can't control his own party
08:53:01 <sbp> yeah, and his policies are hella empty
08:53:08 <sbp> and he has a hypocritical past
08:53:16 <sbp> and blah blah. what can you say? he's a Conservative
08:53:32 <sbp> but compare him to the Conservative leaders in the last N years...
08:53:45 <sbp> he's got a much better public face, I think
08:53:52 <Arnia> That's true
08:54:11 * Arnia looks at Thatcher and screams
08:54:13 <Mike_L> these are UK PM candidates?
08:54:14 <sbp> which is scary, 'cause it's still Conservativism underneath
08:54:18 <sbp> hehe
08:54:28 <sbp> Mike_L: Cameron is the leader of the opposition
08:54:34 <Arnia> Mike_L: um... sort of, but that makes no sense as a question really
08:54:41 <Mike_L> ok
08:54:50 <Arnia> Leader of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition
08:54:54 <Mike_L> opposition = non-majority?
08:55:05 <Arnia> Mike_L: second place party... usually
08:55:08 <Mike_L> ok
08:55:08 <sbp> yeah, it's the party with the ... right
08:55:32 <Arnia> Mike_L: although a non-majority party can be asked to form a government
08:55:38 <Mike_L> so will they become a majority, or will Blair's party just choose a new leader to be PM?
08:55:47 * Arnia wishes the party system would die
08:55:57 <Arnia> Mike_L: The Labour Party have chosen a new leader
08:56:06 <sbp> Labour won't be calling for a general election, so yes they will have to appoint a new successor (which is Gordon Brown)
08:56:19 * Mike_L somehow missed this news in the States :-/
08:56:24 <Arnia> Mike_L: and he becomes leader of the party, not prime minister
08:56:28 <bjoern_> .wik Opposition (politics)
08:56:30 <phenny> "In politics, the opposition comprises one or more political parties or other organized groups that are opposed to the government, party or group in political control of an area, county, or state." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposition_(politics)
08:56:30 <Mike_L> Arnia: ok
08:56:31 <sbp> when the general election comes, the electorate chooses a party, not a prime minister
08:56:36 * bjoern_ 's kinda amazed that's the whole article
08:56:41 <Arnia> Mike_L: although the Monarch will invariably make him PM
08:56:53 <sbp> we chose the Labour party, so we're stuck with whoever they throw in as PM
08:57:08 <sbp> oh, yeah, constitutionally the Monarch does it
08:57:24 <Arnia> sbp: normally this doesn't matter though, cos of Ministerial independence
08:57:26 <sbp> though I don't think she has any de facto choice really. I'd be amazed if she did her own thing
08:57:39 <sbp> Arnia: oh?
08:57:42 <Arnia> sbp: and then the Civil Service is independent on top of that
08:57:43 <Mike_L> has a Monarch ever refused to appoint the chosen PM?
08:58:18 <Arnia> Mike_L: Not exactly... did ask a non-majority party to form government though
08:58:23 <Arnia> Mike_L: (WWII)
08:58:36 <Mike_L> hmm
08:58:53 <sbp> Mike_L: we have a big historical thing about the respective power of the monarch and parliament, dating back to the Civil War (Royalists vs. Parlimentarians) and before
08:59:07 <Arnia> sbp: Each minister is independent in a Cabinet that is first amongst equals. The PM is supposed to act as a sort of chairman to the Cabinet
08:59:08 <sbp> the Queen isn't allowed in the House of Commons technically, for example
08:59:25 * Arnia is a royalist incidentally
08:59:25 <sbp> Arnia: ah, I didn't know that
08:59:36 <sbp> heh
08:59:54 <Arnia> sbp: Thatcher and Blair typify the 'presidential' approach, in different ways.
09:00:03 <Mike_L> royalist? so you support the old money?
09:00:31 <sbp> Mike_L: the present british political system is still mainly founded from the aftermath of the Civil War. the Tory (now Conservative) and Whig (now Liberal Democrat) parties came from back then, though they've evolved massively of course
09:00:49 <sbp> the English Civil War being in the 1600s
09:00:51 <Mike_L> monarchies seem to be just institutionalized oligarchy... the antithesis of democracy
09:01:25 <Arnia> Mike_L: ah... see, that's hardly a convincing argument for me to give up monachies
09:01:38 <Mike_L> I can't see any real benefits to such a thing
09:01:51 <Arnia> sbp: Thatcher manipulated the Cabinet using sub-committees and infighting to get them to direct the ministries how she wanted. Blair and Brown just have a weak cabinet
09:02:09 <Arnia> Mike_L: Human robots
09:02:37 <Mike_L> Arnia: what do you mean?
09:03:19 <Arnia> Mike_L: There are certain powers you want to give to a robot, but we don't have intelligent robots yet
09:03:52 <Mike_L> Arnia: so you give them to the monarch because you expect the monarch to behave in a certain way?
09:04:07 <Arnia> Mike_L: The 'Big Red Button' powers; power to wage war, power to dissolve parliament, power to veto legislation
09:04:31 <Arnia> Mike_L: yes; because if the monarch doesn't act that way they would be removed
09:04:40 <sbp> cf. Civil War
09:04:57 <sbp> so the monarch is an odd form of vox populi
09:05:24 <Mike_L> they would be removed for radical behavior, but what about subtle things that are ignored by a disenfranchised populace?
09:05:25 <Arnia> I definitely don't trust any 'elected' official to hold those powers, because they stood for election
09:05:38 <Mike_L> ah, now that's a good point
09:05:47 <Arnia> People who stand for power through choice are not people to be trusted
09:05:54 <Arnia> (with those powers...)
09:06:13 * Arnia hates causal use of 'disenfranchised'
09:06:14 <Mike_L> so the monarch, being born into power, having the highest wealth in the nation, can be trusted not to pursue wealth and power?
09:06:27 <Arnia> 'disaffected' would be better there anyway
09:06:37 * Mike_L acknowledges his imprecise use of the the word
09:06:57 <sbp> there's a strange kind of tension between the inherent historical fact that the monarch does not have Absolute Power and is not therefore appointed by God, and yet since the monarch's power is a function of the people and that can be seen as the will of God... :-) the tradition of it, Dieu Et Mon Droit, is important
09:07:30 <sbp> "shame on him who thinks ill of it". you have to wonder about these things
09:07:42 <Mike_L> the US populace cares more about Paris Hilton going to jail than it does about the US dismantling the Mutual Anhialation Deterrent for nuclear war with Russia
09:07:44 <Arnia> Mike_L: essentially yes; unable to be bribed, trained from birth to be above party politics
09:08:03 <sbp> the last time that a monarch was effectively deposed was only in the early 20th century
09:08:05 <sbp> Edward VIII
09:08:19 <Arnia> sbp: although that was a cruel parliament
09:08:20 <Mike_L> Arnia: that makes sense
09:08:30 <sbp> he was getting to be too popular, so forces in parliament and the church got rid of him
09:08:32 <sbp> aye
09:08:42 <Mike_L> I often wish that the US had leaders who were interested in serving only one term - performing a duty for their country
09:08:44 <Arnia> sbp: and the leader of the opposition was an absolute bastard :p
09:08:55 <sbp> it's a shame Edward VIII didn't stick around. it would've been interesting to see how he would've turned out... that reign promised so much
09:09:02 <sbp> oh yeah, I think it was abhorrent that they got rid of him
09:09:09 <Arnia> sbp: and they screwed his brother horribly :(
09:09:15 <Arnia> he just wasn't ready for it
09:09:27 <sbp> yeah, absolutely. the Queen Mother never forgave them for his early death
09:09:38 <sbp> well, never forgave Mrs. Simpson whom she seems to have blamed, as I understand it
09:09:55 <Arnia> Well, the Queen Mother was a strange woman
09:09:57 <sbp> the grand old Duke of York
09:10:04 <sbp> he wasn't fit for throne
09:10:24 <sbp> they marched him under the weighty crown...
09:10:34 <Arnia> Thankfully the Queen seems to have picked up the cannyness of her father's line
09:11:34 * Arnia rages against the Parliament Acts, the Human Rights Act and the Reform of the Lords Act (or whatever that one is called)
09:11:50 *** l7 has quit ("Lost terminal")
09:11:58 <sbp> .gc "Rage Against the Political Machine"
09:12:00 <phenny> "Rage Against the Political Machine": 478
09:12:02 * Mike_L rages against the broken Debian 3.1r4 installer
09:12:31 <Mike_L> I don't have another blank CDR to burn the Debian 4.0 installer, and this old machine has only CDROM and floppy drives
09:12:55 <Arnia> bloody democracy... it wouldn't be so bad if they weren't so vehement in their trumpeting of it as the One and Only political system worth having
09:13:29 <Arnia> It is like someone with a toupé making ostentatious gestures, running his fingers through his hair
09:13:47 <sbp> what was it that Churchill (and others) said about it? something along the lines of it sucking, but not as much as all the other systems...
09:14:05 <Mike_L> Arnia: do you suppose that what we have today is real democracy?
09:14:27 <Arnia> Mike_L: uh... if you mean pure democracy, then of course not
09:14:45 <Arnia> Mike_L: that doesn't work at all
09:15:10 <Mike_L> perhaps not for sufficiently diverse groups
09:15:18 <Arnia> Current 'democratic' systems are illusions hiding a standard hierarchical structure
09:15:29 <Arnia> Mike_L: Athens was diverse?!
09:16:02 <Arnia> And that I think is very clever... good idea. Prevent uprisings by giving the illusion of choice without ever giving the choice
09:16:31 <Mike_L> perhaps you agree with Mr. Chomsky's politics afterall
09:16:54 <Arnia> Chomsky views this as a bad thing
09:17:01 <Arnia> I view it as an amusing thing
09:17:15 <Mike_L> well, he seems to be a socialist
09:17:40 <Arnia> Yes... not an authoritarian though :p
09:18:15 <Arnia> Oddly, there have been socialist states with 'free elections' (I'd use the quotes for any democracy incidentally)
09:18:16 *** sbp changed the topic to: "Exculpate Cleisthenes!"
09:18:23 <Mike_L> yes, he thinks that society's resources don't go to benefit regular people because those people have no power
09:18:38 <Arnia> The UK for example was pretty much a socialist state for many years (until 1983 at least)
09:18:53 <Mike_L> personally, I don't know if there has ever been a socialist state that was successful in the long term
09:19:29 <Mike_L> but there are grades of socialism
09:20:34 <Mike_L> at this point in my life, I don't know if a real democracy could survive in the world today, but I am sick of the atrocities of the oligarchy :(
09:20:47 <sbp> real democracy - you mean a pure democracy again?
09:21:03 <sbp> Switzerland has the purest democracy. seems to be a fairly stable country
09:21:11 <Mike_L> sbp: I mean a society where the average person has real power
09:21:18 <sbp> I'm not sure if the representative illusion is really required, as long as there are other illusions
09:21:20 <Mike_L> sbp: and heterogeneous?
09:21:26 *** schepers has quit ("Free at last!")
09:21:37 <sbp> yes, in Switzerland people vote on bills directly
09:21:42 <Mike_L> ok
09:21:50 <sbp> it's like holding referenda all the time
09:21:54 <Arnia> sbp: Switzerland is a weird state though; I'm sceptical that it would work if they didn't have their philosophy of neutrality
09:22:06 <sbp> yeah, .ch seems to be a special case
09:22:13 <sbp> but we have special cases in other areas too
09:22:35 <Mike_L> sbp: they are also very small and the people are not diverse, no?
09:22:42 <Arnia> sbp: the representative illusion is easy... that's the reason it is used. Give people the illusion of power.
09:23:07 <sbp> like the BBC. which is just weird, but works immensely well
09:23:18 <Arnia> s/used. Give/used to give/
09:23:35 <Arnia> sbp: yes, but the BBC is effectively a nation state to itself ;)
09:23:39 <Mike_L> it's probably natural for power to accumulate in a few people
09:23:41 <sbp> Mike_L: um, they're fairly big. quite conservative though
09:24:09 <sbp> the weird thing about .ch is that its neutral philosophy has lasted
09:24:19 <Mike_L> 7M people is not what I would call 'fairly big' :P
09:24:20 <sbp> things can change so fast with benevolencies in areas like that...
09:24:30 <sbp> Elizabeth -> James -> Charles -> ouch
09:24:44 <sbp> Mike_L: only from your American perspective
09:25:05 <Mike_L> 7M is smaller than Chicago
09:25:32 <Arnia> sbp: that all started from the Reformation though
09:25:33 <sbp> Switzerland is 135/232 in terms of area
09:25:47 <sbp> just under the average country siz
09:25:50 <sbp> ...e
09:26:00 <sbp> really, you're living in a ridiculously abnormally sized country
09:26:26 <Arnia> sbp: should probably blame many things on tertiary syphilis
09:26:42 <sbp> I... tertiary syphilis? chuckle
09:26:46 <Mike_L> haha
09:27:02 <Arnia> Henry VIII and all
09:27:29 <Mike_L> I picked up George Orwell's Animal Farm today at the library. It was in the Juvenile Fiction section. :(
09:27:36 <sbp> bwahaha
09:27:44 <Arnia> I'm a Protecathostant!
09:28:02 <Mike_L> and it's the censored version, where Mr. Orwell's introduction has been chopped out, replaced by something else
09:28:02 <sbp> .gc Protecathostant
09:28:05 <phenny> Protecathostant: 0
09:28:13 <sbp> Arnia: you know, I've been thinking about that...
09:28:15 * Arnia gets killed by Henrymaryelizabeth
09:28:41 <sbp> John Dee...
09:28:43 <Mike_L> s/Mr. Orwell/Mr. Whatever-his-real-name-was/
09:29:14 <sbp> Arnia: "His ultimate goal was to help bring forth a unified world religion through the healing of the breach of the Catholic and Protestant churches and the recapture of the pure theology of the ancients." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Dee#Thought
09:29:19 <sbp> Mike_L: Arthur Eric Blair
09:29:23 <Arnia> sbp: shall we petition Her Majesty for all future acts of parliament to be written in the Enochian script :p
09:29:28 <sbp> hehe
09:29:35 <Mike_L> Arnia: that term is decidedly Protestant biased, as it has all of the syllables of 'protestant' but only 2/3 of the syllables of 'catholic'
09:29:59 <Arnia> Mike_L: it was based upon the pattern after the Reformation
09:30:00 <sbp> Mike_L: what do you expect from a citizen of a protestant state?
09:30:08 * sbp ducks
09:30:34 * Mike_L suggests Procathostant
09:30:49 <sbp> .gc Procathostant
09:30:49 <Mike_L> or Protecathic
09:30:51 <phenny> Procathostant: 0
09:31:01 * sbp suggests "Christian"
09:31:10 <Arnia> You had a catholic monarch who destroyed the catholic church in the country, a catholic monarch who tried to destroy the protestant church followed by a rabidly protestant monarch
09:31:22 <Mike_L> sbp: but that would include Mormons and LDS
09:31:33 <sbp> you forgot Edward VI or so
09:31:35 <Arnia> sbp: that term has been hijacked by the evangelist fundamentalists, alas
09:31:53 <sbp> Jesusian?
09:31:54 <Arnia> sbp: and Lady Jane Grey
09:32:05 <sbp> Queen Jane Approximately
09:32:13 <sbp> that is one of my favourite songs of all time
09:32:18 <Arnia> Queen Jane of the Two Towns
09:34:08 <Arnia> Favourite monarchs of all time... Stephen and Matilda
09:34:16 <Mike_L> the birds have begun singing outside, saying 'You've stayed up all night'...
09:34:25 <Arnia> Just for turning a matrimonial dispute into a civil war
09:34:36 <Arnia> With the throwing of tomatoes involved
09:34:51 <Tene> Mike_L: LDS == Mormon
09:35:07 <sbp> Empress Matilda
09:35:17 <sbp> Edgar Aetheling is one of my favourites
09:35:59 <sbp> the forgotten king
09:36:24 <Mike_L> Tene: oh right. then what are the other ones, Jehova's Witnesses?
09:36:31 <Arnia> sbp: poor man
09:36:37 <Arnia> sbp: who was he?
09:36:38 <Arnia> :p
09:36:47 <sbp> he was chosen by the witan to succeed Harold
09:36:56 <sbp> but then William came along and took him hostage, I think
09:37:09 <sbp> anyway, he sided with the Scots to try to regain the crown and stuff...
09:37:19 <sbp> and generally was quite active for many years doing stuff to get it back
09:37:30 <sbp> but eventually was paid off with some nice farms in Herefordshire or something
09:37:36 <sbp> and that was that. lived to be quite old, I think
09:37:47 <Mike_L> hurray for capitulation!
09:37:57 <Arnia> Mike_L: everyone has a price
09:37:57 <sbp> even his birth is shrouded in some mystery... I think his father was murdered under mysterious circumstances to take him out of the succession equation
09:38:04 <Arnia> Mike_L: even if that price is death...
09:38:07 <sbp> I forget all the details, been meaning to write it up
09:38:10 <sbp> it's a very interesting story
09:38:13 * Arnia really is cynical today...
09:38:25 <Mike_L> Arnia: indeed
09:39:16 <Mike_L> I had better go to sleep now. Thanks for the interesting chat.
09:39:22 <sbp> c'ya Mike_L!
09:39:28 * Arnia waves goodbye
09:39:37 * Arnia reverse the rotation of the earth for MikeL
09:39:40 <Arnia> BOOM!
09:39:43 <Arnia> ahem...
09:39:45 * Mike_L waves on his way out
09:39:48 <Mike_L> he
09:39:50 <Mike_L> heh
09:40:34 * Arnia looks forward to a roast brisket with yorkshire puddings, carrot and swede mash, new potatoes, roast potatoes, peas and lashings of horseradish sauce
09:40:45 <Arnia> ^^ my lunch as I plan it :p
09:40:57 <sbp> ooh, lovely. except the peas
09:41:08 <sbp> I also like swede plain, really
09:41:16 <sbp> new and roast is quite a mix!
09:41:24 <Arnia> It works though
09:41:41 <sbp> aye. have only had it perhaps once or twice
09:42:16 <Arnia> Or, if I feel like being daring I might go for the lamb in a red wine sauce served in a large yorkshire pudding with trimmings
09:42:31 <Arnia> (depends what the pub has on today)
09:44:28 <sbp> what would that be; rabbit-in-the-hole or something? :-)
09:44:46 * sbp has no idea why he used a semi-colon there; fun though!
09:45:04 * sbp is playing Queen Jane Approximately, which probably explains these things
09:46:19 * Arnia wishes for pheasant
09:46:25 <sbp> heheh
09:46:54 <sbp> we'll start a social club one of these days
09:47:06 * Arnia is a country boy
09:47:07 <sbp> "Swhakke"
09:47:25 <Arnia> sbp: sort of like the QI club?
09:47:31 <sbp> the QI club?
09:47:45 <Arnia> .g QI members club
09:47:47 <phenny> Arnia: http://www.qi.com/building/club/
09:47:48 * sbp finds on Google
09:48:10 * Arnia knows some good buildings in Durham which may be purloined
09:48:16 <sbp> yes. QI Club + Inklinks + lots of things
09:48:21 <sbp> er, Inklings
09:48:28 <sbp> not sure how that got devoiced
09:48:36 <Arnia> Ooh, haven't been to the pancake cafe for a couple of years
09:48:47 <sbp> lashings of purloin
09:48:54 * Arnia now has an urge for a pancake (for our USian friends, 'crepe')
09:49:43 <Arnia> sbp: noticed how food vocab seems to exhibit the greatest difference between en_GB and en_US
09:50:06 <sbp> hmm, I hadn't paid much thought to it. but I think you're right!
09:50:12 <sbp> I fancy a scone
09:50:22 <sbp> but I'm going out imminently
09:50:26 <nicomen> ah finally someone else that says USian
09:50:31 <Arnia> sbp: sweet or savoury?
09:50:50 <sbp> more sweet than savoury
09:51:08 <Arnia> sbp: so, currant with a dusty of cheese?
09:51:28 <sbp> I'm unable to stand them for some reason. must be something wrong with me!
09:51:42 <sbp> just plain with a good layer of proper butter
09:51:53 <Arnia> and clotted cream
09:51:54 <sbp> JibberJim suggested clotted cream the other day... I need to try that
09:51:55 <sbp> aye
09:52:04 <Arnia> and raspberry jam
09:52:11 * Arnia likes raspberry jam a lot
09:52:12 <sbp> hard to get a good clotted cream these days
09:52:20 <sbp> question of knowing where to look, I suppose
09:52:21 <Arnia> sbp: they do sell it though...
09:52:30 <Arnia> I adore clotted cream
09:52:49 <Arnia> One of a long list of food stuffs I have to be able to get wherever I end up moving to
09:53:10 <Arnia> If a given area can't provide me with everything on the list, I'm not moving there :p
09:54:31 <Arnia> clotted cream, pheasant, rabbit, venison, duck, ginger nut biscuits, digestive biscuits, rich tea biscuits, scones, raspberry jam, jaffa cakes, penguins, etc.
09:56:26 * Arnia mistakes a spoonerism for a wooden spoon whilst baking and serves up a scone of stone
09:56:31 <sbp> your list is ever so slightly different from mine, but a similar sentiment
09:57:44 <xover> Oooh! Jaffa Cakes!
09:57:57 <sbp> yo xover
09:57:59 <Arnia> last summer I remember us sitting out in the courtyard eating a cream tea
09:58:26 <Arnia> followed by sunday dinner
09:58:36 <Arnia> was quite nice
09:58:47 <Arnia> Definitely nicer than now :p
09:58:51 <xover> The main reason, apart from lazyness and a complete lack of facility for linguistics, I don't read Chomsky is that I stringly suspect he would feed my political paranoia to the point of a nervous breakdown.
10:00:02 <nicomen> clotted cream very different from sour cream?
10:00:12 <sbp> yes...
10:00:20 <sbp> chalk vs. cheese
10:00:26 <xover> .wik Clotted Cream
10:00:29 <phenny> "Clotted cream is a thick yellow cream made by heating unpasteurized cow's milk and then leaving it in shallow pans for several hours." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clotted_Cream
10:00:54 <nicomen> ok
10:01:44 <Arnia> It is delicious though
10:01:53 <Arnia> I love clotted cream sandwiches
10:02:04 <Arnia> (jam, clotted cream, butter)
10:02:23 <Arnia> Have to use a slightly bitter wholemeal loaf though
10:02:34 <Arnia> (otherwise they're too sweet)
10:02:44 *** est has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
10:05:08 <sbp> right, I'm off!
10:05:14 <sbp> c'ya Arnia, xover, nicomen
10:05:16 <bjoern_> .calc 0x10ffff in decimal
10:05:18 <phenny> 0x10ffff = 1 114 111
10:05:24 <xover> `later
10:06:05 <Arnia> bye sbp!
10:11:48 <bjoern_> lisppaste2: url?
10:11:48 <lisppaste2> To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/swhack and enter your paste.
10:12:20 <lisppaste2> bjoern_ pasted "utf8 encode to integer golf, now correct and in C!" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/42536
10:23:35 <nicomen> bjoern_: which golf is that?
10:24:05 <bjoern_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perl_golf#Perl_golf
10:26:06 <nicomen> so...
10:26:25 <nicomen> ...I know what golfing is, but I was wondering which particular contest that solution was part of
10:26:45 <bjoern_> The contest is running right now, and apparently I am the only one playing...
10:27:55 <nicomen> any urls?
10:28:10 <bjoern_> which would help answer what exactly?
10:28:32 <nicomen> where to submit olution, which language it should be in, any example input or similar?
10:28:33 <bjoern_> the idea is that someone posts a shorter, more elegant, or at least faster version
10:28:41 <nicomen> ah than your c one?
10:29:09 <bjoern_> submit here, use c, input is 0 .. 0x10ffff; the return value needs to be the same.
10:29:23 <nicomen> so you basically threw in your glove?
10:29:34 <bjoern_> obviously the initial `res` computation can be fasten a lot by using a table to lookup the value
10:29:55 <nicomen> "Throw down the gauntlet"
10:29:57 <bjoern_> well, I stopped playing for now, yes, but competing programs most welcome
10:30:11 <nicomen> not throw in the towel ;)
11:09:36 <bjoern_> .w palpable
11:09:38 <phenny> palpable a. 1: Capable of being perceived
11:09:40 <phenny> palpable a. 2: Can be felt by palpation.
11:09:44 <bjoern_> .ety palpable
11:09:46 <phenny> "c.1384, 'that can be touched,' from L.L. palpabilis 'that may be touched or felt,' from L. palpare 'touch gently, stroke' (see feel (v.))." - http://etymonline.com/?term=palpable
11:10:16 <xover> .w palatable
11:10:18 <phenny> palatable a. 1: Acceptable to the taste or mind.
11:10:33 <bjoern_> .w palpatine
11:10:35 <phenny> I couldn't find 'palpatine' in WordNet.
11:16:46 <nicomen> .w palpitation
11:16:48 <phenny> palpitation n. 1: A rapid and irregular heart beat
11:16:50 <phenny> palpitation n. 2: A shaky motion.
11:16:58 <nicomen> .w palpitate
11:17:00 <phenny> palpitate v. 1: Cause to throb or beat rapidly
11:17:02 <phenny> palpitate v. 2: Shake with fast, tremulous movements
11:17:04 <phenny> palpitate v. 3: Beat rapidly.
11:17:18 <nicomen> palpitated, not stirred
11:41:56 <bjoern_> .gc "call me a slut!"
11:41:59 <phenny> "call me a slut!": 18,300
11:51:20 <nicomen> slut!
12:12:02 *** karamba3865 (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-26a8e0a57a61b182) has joined #swhack
12:14:15 *** karamba3865 has parted #swhack ()
12:19:11 *** karamba38 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
12:25:45 * sbp returns with photos of jellyfish and swans
12:32:09 <bjoern_> Hello sbp! Welcome to the Free Speech Zone of #Swhack. If you are a terrorist, please take a minute and sign up at swhack.com.
12:32:29 <bjoern_> Yay! BBC is not a http://www.privacyinternational.org/issues/internet/interimrankings.pdf Substantial Threat!
12:32:58 <bjoern_> Google is outright Hostile To Privacy
12:33:21 <bjoern_> which apparently makes it the winner in the contest.
12:34:13 * sbp uploads a couple of photos to Flickr to try it out
12:34:49 <sbp> Google wins? awesome
12:35:01 <sbp> Google > all other privacy stealers
12:36:39 <bjoern_> They are conveniently marked 00,01 Hostile to Privacy 99,99 Yahoo! is just a 01,04 Substantial Thread 00,01
12:36:55 <sbp> Did you mean: threat?
12:37:38 <bjoern_> No! That would be so outusenettish.
12:38:47 <bjoern_> "Track history of ignoring privacy concerns. Every corporate announcement involves some new practice involving surveillance."
12:39:38 <sbp> jellyfish: http://www.flickr.com/photos/sbp/538638993/
12:39:46 <sbp> swan: http://www.flickr.com/photos/sbp/538639007/
12:42:29 <bjoern_> Maneter, Medusa, Kwal, Ampai-ampai, Scyphozoa, Ubur-ubur, Grumer, Jellyfish, ... can't you just use the proper name "Qualle"?
12:44:07 <sbp> Qualle? that'd make a good dog's name
12:45:21 <sbp> what! large is only "(1024 x 768)"?
12:45:42 <sbp> that's assbunk. I took it at 3072x2304
12:46:23 <sbp> do you have to have a better account to upload real size or something?
12:46:36 <sbp> well, I uploaded at real size... it's just not allowing download of the same
12:48:32 <bjoern_> hehe http://www.privacyinternational.org/article.shtml?cmd[347]=x-347-553964
12:51:39 <bjoern_> I'm afraid http://www.privacyinternational.org/article.shtml?cmd[347]=x-347-545269&als[theme]=Privacy%20and%20Human%20Rights is not quite current anymore...
12:54:03 <sbp> "So do we have a vested interest in attacking Google? No. Some of the people we work with have Microsoft connections, but we work with many thousands of people as partners, collaborators and managers."
12:55:17 <sbp> [[[
12:55:18 <sbp> Who can download your photos Anyone (but no-one can download the original files, because you have a free account)
12:55:19 <sbp> ]]]
12:55:20 <sbp> pfft
12:58:35 <sbp> $24.95/year? pfft
12:58:55 <sbp> then again that's what, £2.50?
12:59:01 <sbp> .calc 24.95 USD in GBP
12:59:03 <phenny> 24.95 U.S. dollars = 12.6508468 British pounds
12:59:14 <sbp> yeah, screw that
12:59:58 <bjoern_> I'd like a image hosting site that doesn't suck donkey balls.
13:00:44 * crschmidt happily pays flickr for his account
13:00:53 <crschmidt> One of the better investments I've made
13:01:08 <crschmidt> Especially now that there isn't a 2GB monthly upload limit
13:02:58 <sbp> yeah, it's prolly worth it if you upload gazillions of photos
13:03:13 <sbp> but I'm not going to pay £12.65 so people can download hi-res versions of just two... :-)
13:03:32 <bjoern_> www-archive...
13:03:45 <sbp> crschmidt: do you know if they retroactively enable hi-res for ... hmm! www-archive...
13:03:52 <crschmidt> sbp: yes, they do
13:04:09 <sbp> ah, that's good then. so I can use it intermittently until I decide it'd be worth taking the plunge. neato
13:04:27 * sbp wonders if W3T would kick his ass if he emailed them to www-archive
13:04:42 <bjoern_> no
13:05:11 <sbp> no?
13:06:14 <bjoern_> It's the word girls use when they mean "yes"
13:06:23 <sbp> hehe
13:06:27 <sbp> .pc ö
13:06:29 <phenny> 00F6: LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH DIAERESIS (ö)
13:06:54 <sbp> you can always tell when I'm bloggin' 'bout bjoern 'cause I have to look up ö
13:09:13 <sbp> http://inamidst.com/whits/2007/06#photos
13:09:23 <bjoern_> With Optimus you could make a Bjoern key!
13:09:31 <sbp> there, I'm satisfied with the amount of data I put out about all this. can relax now :-)
13:09:39 <nicomen> .pcø
13:09:39 <sbp> ooh, a Bjoern key! yeah, that'd be neat
13:09:41 <nicomen> .pc ø
13:09:43 <phenny> 00F8: LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH STROKE (ø)
13:09:52 <sbp> can't wait till they come down in price. if they ever do
13:09:55 <sbp> I wonder what it's like to use one?
13:09:56 <nicomen> .pc eu
13:09:58 <phenny> 0065: LATIN SMALL LETTER E (e)
13:10:01 <phenny> 0075: LATIN SMALL LETTER U (u)
13:10:28 <nicomen> .pc œ
13:10:30 <phenny> 0026: AMPERSAND (&)
13:10:33 <phenny> 006F: LATIN SMALL LETTER O (o)
13:10:34 <nicomen> oh my
13:10:36 <phenny> 0065: LATIN SMALL LETTER E (e)
13:10:50 <bjoern_> .cp oe lig
13:10:52 <phenny> Sorry, no results found for 'oe lig'.
13:10:58 <bjoern_> hmm
13:11:16 <bjoern_> .cp lig oe
13:11:18 <phenny> Sorry, no results found for 'lig oe'.
13:11:26 <bjoern_> ok that was stupid
13:11:28 <sbp> .u oe lig
13:11:32 <bjoern_> .cp ligature oe
13:11:34 <phenny> 0152: LATIN CAPITAL LIGATURE OE (Œ)
13:11:35 <sbp> .unicode oe lig
13:11:37 <phenny> 0153: LATIN SMALL LIGATURE OE (œ)
13:11:38 <phenny> Error: no results found
13:11:42 <sbp> ERROR
13:11:44 <sbp> .unicode lig oe
13:11:47 <phenny> U+0153 LATIN SMALL LIGATURE OE (œ)
13:12:01 <sbp> that's the old fuzzy search thing
13:38:09 <xover> .t PDT
13:38:11 <phenny> Sun, 10 Jun 2007 06:37:48 PDT
13:43:44 <bjoern_> okay, with no competing entries from #swhack, I posted my golf challenge to comp.lang.c
13:45:43 <sbp> ooh
13:46:02 <sbp> should post it to an assembly language forum
13:46:05 <nicomen> I'm not sure I even understand what it is supposed to do
13:46:09 <sbp> they'll have it down to like ten bytes
13:46:12 <bjoern_> (http://paste.lisp.org/display/42536 if you want to enter!)
13:46:14 <nicomen> convert an utf-8 to what?
13:46:18 <bjoern_> naah
13:46:28 <bjoern_> asm is not portable
13:46:34 <nicomen> and utf-8 passed as uint?
13:47:03 <bjoern_> I explained this to you already, didn't I?
13:47:38 <nicomen> 12:28 < bjoern_> submit here, use c, input is 0 .. 0x10ffff; the return value needs to be the same.
13:47:41 <nicomen> ?
13:47:48 <bjoern_> yes
13:51:40 <nicomen> well I'm probably stupid, but I don't get it
13:52:07 <nicomen> so, if a value is larger than half of max_int you would do what?
13:53:07 <nicomen> sorry larger than max int
13:53:43 <nicomen> nevermind, other business to attend
13:54:11 <bjoern_> the input and output are ints, they can't be larger than max int.
13:55:08 <nicomen> ok then please enlighten me how int utf_8_6(unsigned int a) { return a; } would fail?
13:55:18 <nicomen> ok then please enlighten me how int utf_8_6(unsigned int a) { return (int)a; } would fail?
13:55:32 <bjoern_> why would it fail?
13:55:59 <nicomen> I guess all the calculations you are doing have some purpose?
13:56:13 <bjoern_> yes
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13:57:08 <bjoern_> you do utf8_6( ... ) with a value between 0x000000 .. 0x10FFFF and it returns some well-defined result. you don't pass any value outside the range.
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13:57:59 <Monty> it's kpreid!
14:02:41 <crschmidt> I think what I don't understand is why you would write a function that would take something as input and return the same thing as output
14:03:30 <bjoern_> why do you think I might have written one that does that?
14:03:53 <crschmidt> "the return value needs to be the same."
14:03:53 *** JibberJim (n=jim@colbert-ext.lid.theveniceproject.com) has joined #swhack
14:03:57 <crschmidt> the same as what?
14:04:11 *** karamba38 (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-6b03dabfdb514c9a) has joined #swhack
14:04:22 <bjoern_> as the original function, http://paste.lisp.org/display/42536 in this case.
14:05:29 <crschmidt> Oh, okay. That makes more sense.
14:05:48 <crschmidt> I don't know what that function does, but I don't really care, I was just confused :)
14:06:17 <nicomen> I guess that's my conclusion too
14:06:39 <bjoern_> it's a utf-8 encoder; the only difference to a traditional one is that it writes the result to an int, not a byte array.
14:07:53 <kpreid> why would you want that?
14:09:38 <bjoern_> the answer involves the inner workings of a regex engine...
14:10:52 <kpreid> ah
14:11:19 <sbp> pfft, you can use that answer to almost any question about weirdness
14:11:29 <nicomen> lol
14:11:33 <sbp> "why are you doing $weirdtechthing?" "the answer involves..."
14:14:41 <kpreid> "why does this Furby have a USB cable attached to it?"
14:14:44 <kpreid> "the answer involves the inner workings of a regex engine"
14:14:46 <kpreid> "um, okay..."
14:16:09 <bjoern_> in this respect, regex engines are like National Security
14:16:27 <bjoern_> # THIS CODE BLOCK BLACKED OUT FOR MENTAL HEALTH REASONS.
14:17:40 <nicomen> quite powerful it seems:
14:18:54 <nicomen> perl -le '$_ = "lol"; s/lol/\theanswertolifetheuniverseandeverything/; print;'
14:18:56 <nicomen> 42
14:19:20 <nicomen> in a ew microseconds...
14:19:24 <nicomen> few
14:19:26 <nicomen> how about that
14:29:10 <crschmidt> i dont' know what version of perl you're using, but that sure doesn't work for me
14:30:03 <sbp> $ perl -le '$_ = "lol"; s/lol/\theanswertolifetheuniverseandeverything/; print;'
14:30:03 <sbp> heanswertolifetheuniverseandeverything
14:30:05 <sbp> works for me
14:30:24 <sbp> $ perl --version
14:30:24 <sbp> This is perl, v5.8.8 built for darwin-2level
14:30:26 <crschmidt> rather, 'that doesn't result in 42 for me'
14:30:35 <sbp> oh, I see
14:30:47 <sbp> heh
14:30:56 <sbp> it'll do that in perl6, I assume
14:31:03 <sbp> nicomen's from The Future
14:31:14 <bjoern_> s/// isn't very Perl6ish.
14:31:47 <sbp> what would perl6 do?
14:32:58 * bjoern_ shrugs
14:34:06 <sbp> heh
14:34:43 <crschmidt> the perl6 substitution which can be known is not the real perl6 substitution
14:34:56 <sbp> hehe
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15:20:36 <Arnia> *sends a badger after sbp*
15:23:30 <sbp> OMG
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16:19:56 <thelsdj> http://www.videojug.com/interview/the-internet-2
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16:42:47 <deltab> sbp: Shaun
16:43:02 <deltab> "Mower Mouth"
16:43:27 <sbp> aw man. watching the Grand Prix
16:43:38 <deltab> ah, it's the one with the goat
16:43:48 <sbp> ah yes, seen that one
16:43:53 <sbp> twice, I think
16:44:45 * sbp can't wait for the DVD to come out
16:44:53 <sbp> Shaun Marathon!
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17:08:54 <xover> http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/06/08/iphone_may_become_king_in_cellphone_chip_ban.html
17:09:30 <xover> Uhm. The President can veto a ruling from the Courts?!?
17:09:57 <xover> The President is personally reviewing a Patent on a damned cellphone chip?!?!
17:10:11 <xover> Someone is so definitely on crack here!
17:10:49 <JibberJim> But he is an expert in mobile phone technology and patents, so I don't think it's unreasonable.
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17:48:18 <d8uv> Hi I'm d8uv
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18:03:09 <sr> d8uv, prove it
18:06:04 * d8uv eats a cotton candy
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19:02:36 <sbp> wow
19:02:44 <sbp> that was one of the best races I've ever seen
19:02:56 <sbp> every second was nailbiting
19:03:02 <sbp> and also:
19:03:12 <sbp> WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! GO LEWIS!!!
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19:06:24 <perigrin> GO HARRIS!
19:06:33 * perigrin takes the naturally opposing position.
19:09:58 <nicomen> no you don't!
19:10:02 <nicomen> (me too!)
19:10:21 <sbp> heh, Murray Walker's just said he's a real championship contender now
19:10:29 <sbp> I've been thinking that too... wondered how mad that was
19:10:35 <sbp> looks like it could really be on though, at this rate
19:10:44 <sbp> 1 3rd, 4 2nds, 1 1st
19:11:43 <nicomen> no it doesn't
19:12:10 <perigrin> oh yes it does!
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19:12:15 * perigrin feels like he's in panto now.
19:13:09 <nicomen> perigrin: that's what they want you to think! </tin foil hat mode>
19:13:38 <d8uv> ATTN SWHACK: WHAT SHOULD I DRAW
19:13:51 <perigrin> A Flush.
19:14:02 <perigrin> Unless the other guy has a boat.
19:14:18 <perigrin> Then you'll need a straight flush.
19:15:04 <nicomen> sell all your hotels
19:16:12 <sbp> d8uv: draw MC Escher drawing the curtains
19:16:56 <d8uv> sbp wins
19:18:10 <sbp> this was funny:
19:18:12 <sbp> 20:04 *** WillSeven (n=starstud@208.53.241.6) has joined #swig
19:18:12 <sbp> 20:04 <dajobe> fwiw there are some tests in grddl-tests.rdf that are not approved
19:18:12 <sbp> 20:04 <dajobe> e.g. base-detail
19:18:12 <sbp> 20:04 *** WillOne (n=Will@unaffiliated/willone) has joined #swig
19:18:13 <sbp> 20:04 <WillOne> I CONCUR
19:18:15 <sbp> 20:04 <WillSeven> DECUR
19:18:17 <sbp> 20:04 <WillOne> I'M LOOKING FOR A NUMBER TWELVE, CAN ANYONE HELP ME?
19:18:19 <sbp> 20:04 <WillOne> I HAVE NUMBER ONE SO FAR
19:18:21 <sbp> 20:04 <WillSeven> MATHS IS MY FAVOIRTE SPELLING
19:18:25 <sbp> 20:04 <WillOne> MINES FORENSIC CIVIC
19:18:27 <sbp> 20:04 <WillSeven> ACCORD
19:18:29 <sbp> 20:05 <WillOne> I SURE HOPE I DON'T GET HACKED IN HERE
19:18:31 <sbp> 20:05 *** WillSeven (n=starstud@208.53.241.6) has left #swig
19:18:33 <sbp> 20:05 <WillOne> I CONCUR
19:18:35 <sbp> 20:05 *** WillOne (n=Will@unaffiliated/willone) has left #swig
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19:25:43 <d8uv> http://a.photos.cx/escher-6fe.png
19:25:49 <d8uv> this sucks I'm sorry
19:26:02 <sbp> bwahaha. right concept though!
19:26:44 <perigrin> smells like a future xkcd
19:27:54 <d8uv> Yeah ever since I got my tablet I've been making xkcdish comics
19:28:07 <deltab> .gc "smells like team spirit"
19:28:10 <phenny> "smells like team spirit": 77,300
19:28:18 <d8uv> http://d8uv.org/flog/2007-06#t1181372799
19:33:02 <sbp> deltab: Coast, BBC 2
19:33:30 <deltab> thanks
19:33:39 <sbp> :-)
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19:39:39 <perigrin> http://imgs.xkcd.com/blag/wikiboard_huge.jpg # haha
19:40:05 <sbp> chuckle
19:40:39 <sbp> .gc "Poole Puddle"
19:40:41 <phenny> "Poole Puddle": 9
19:40:51 <perigrin> .gc "Poodle puddle"
19:40:54 <phenny> "Poodle puddle": 508
19:41:08 <perigrin> .compare "Beetle battle" "Poodle Puddle"
19:41:11 <phenny> "Beetle battle" (16,900), "Poodle Puddle" (509)
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20:32:43 <sbp> deltab: BBC 1, Buildings!
20:32:45 <sbp> Coast was really good
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20:57:40 <deltab> .ety grammar
20:57:42 <phenny> "1176, gramarye, from O.Fr. grammaire 'learning,' especially Latin and philology, from L. grammatica, from Gk. grammatike tekhne 'art of letters,' with a sense of both philology and literature in the broadest sense, from gramma 'letter,' from stem of graphein 'to draw [...]" - http://etymonline.com/?term=grammar
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21:01:57 <perigrin> .ety building
21:01:57 <phenny> Can't find the etymology for "building". Try http://etymonline.com/?search=building
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22:27:22 <tonybaloney> .ety bork
22:27:24 <phenny> Can't find the etymology for "bork". Try http://etymonline.com/?search=bork
22:28:12 <Ash> .ety bork bork
22:28:15 <phenny> Can't find the etymology for "bork". Try http://etymonline.com/?search=bork
22:29:36 <nicomen> .ety broken
22:29:39 <phenny> Can't find the etymology for "broken". Try http://etymonline.com/?search=broken
22:29:47 <nicomen> heh
22:29:55 <nicomen> .ety ety patang
22:29:57 <phenny> Can't find the etymology for "ety". Try http://etymonline.com/?search=ety
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22:46:56 <Ash> .ety etymology
22:46:58 <phenny> "1398, from Gk. etymologia, from etymon 'true sense' (neut. of etymos 'true,' related to eteos 'true') + logos 'word.' In classical times, of meanings; later, of histories." - http://etymonline.com/?term=etymology
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23:39:39 <Monty> it's est!
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