2008-02-01 Swhack IRC Log

00:05:36 <jsled> what about it?
00:06:18 <Arnia> It is similar to LRIP, my parser
00:07:27 <jsled> ah. I've not used JAPE extensively – especially the code-generation/compilation on the RHS – but it's really nice for the pattern matching I was doing.
00:07:53 <Arnia> My issue... it is java :p
00:08:18 <jsled> To the extent I was using it as Kleene operators over tokens (rather than characters), it was really nifty. :)
00:08:26 <Arnia> and I really want to avoid needing to write my entire implementation in Java *sighs*
00:08:37 <jsled> Well, I've used it from jython. :)
00:08:42 <kpreid> Arnia: write your implementation in E instead!
00:08:46 <kpreid> ...kidding.
00:08:53 <Arnia> I suppose I could use it from swi-prolog...
00:09:09 <kpreid> indeed, pick your also-implemented-on-the-jvm language...
00:09:36 <Arnia> (which looks to be the most likely language of implementation at the moment, given my need for CHR and a declarative syntax with unification)
00:10:07 <Arnia> Although I also need some stuff from Yap Prolog, which is most vexing
00:10:23 <Arnia> Prolog has more fracturing than LISP
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00:13:10 <kpreid> Call the bonesetter!
00:13:24 * Arnia calls in Monty
00:13:25 <Monty> "The Klingon Tea Ceremony is utada"
00:13:38 <kpreid> .gs * is utada
00:13:41 <phenny> * is utada: where (2)
00:13:50 <kpreid> .gs utada is *
00:13:53 <phenny> utada is *: offline (4), a (4), bearenvy (3), the (2), set (2), not (2), nice (2), native liar (2), japanese (2), brilliant (2), awesome (2), zeker, washing dishes, thinking, then you must, te
00:14:53 <kpreid> gah. been typing too much today.
00:15:23 <chandler> Monty speaks Klingon?!
00:15:24 <Monty> crappy weather is sick
00:15:25 <phenny> chandler: 23 Jan 09:29Z <sbp> tell chandler any news on the bug report? I tested that Firefox sends the correct data and it does (text=0420%3A+CYRILLIC+CAPITAL+LETTER+ER+%28%D0%A0%29)
00:15:29 <phenny> chandler: 31 Jan 12:41Z <sbp> ask chandler if paste.lisp.org could support GET for the custom /raw media types (though I wonder if POST is used to keep spam down)
00:15:48 <chandler> bah. sbp wants me to actually do something to paste.lisp.org
00:16:05 <chandler> I've known about the lack of unicode workingness for some time
00:17:12 <chandler> phenny: tell sbp I haven't gotten around to fixing the unicode problems yet (bah), and the custom content types thing I did to prevent someone from serving an .exe or something as part of a virus
00:17:15 <phenny> chandler: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
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01:14:47 <_bjoern> .gs you never had * with
01:14:52 <phenny> you never had * with: wrestling (2), troubles (2), trouble (2), to deal (2), success (2), sex (2), probs (2), kids (2), issues (2), experience (2), dealings (2), cheese (2), beef (2), anything (2), anyo
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02:02:35 <Morbus> hrm. if i'm classifying something by language, should i include dialects?
02:02:43 <Morbus> ie., austrian vs. german? cantonese vs. chinese?
02:04:17 <Morbus> hrm. i think no.
02:08:05 <Arnia> Some dialects are very very different
02:08:16 <Arnia> The Chinese example is a case in point
02:09:32 <Arnia> Cantonese and Mandarin are pretty much different languages; the labelling of them both as 'Chinese' is a political act, rather than stating anything about mutual intelligibility. Likewise for some dialects of English, such as Jamaican, which have different syntaxes
02:10:15 <Arnia> Also, take examples like Welsh where North Welsh and South Welsh are, to a degree, mutually intelligible, but still differ on such important issues like the conjugation of copulas
02:11:14 <perigrin> I thought congating couplas were illegal in wales. Or at least not allowed in public.
02:11:49 * Arnia won't go near that one
02:12:39 <Arnia> Then there are differences in written and spoken dialects (such as with Danish) or with different registers (I think Korean is in that category, although I'm not sure)
02:13:02 <Arnia> But dialect codes are just as important as primary language codes when classifying languages
02:13:28 <Arnia> dialects, languages, armies and navies and all that
02:20:20 <Morbus> Arnia: well, i'm concerned more about a) lack of intelligence when it comes to distinguishing dialects, and b) lack of strong categorization. i imagine a handful of "cantonese posters" but hundreds of chinese posters.
02:21:01 <Arnia> Well, you'd want a system capable of one-shot classification then
02:21:04 <Arnia> hm
02:21:14 <Arnia> .g SOM language classification
02:21:17 <phenny> Arnia: http://safari.oreilly.com/1593270526/ns1593270526-CHP-3-SECT-9
02:21:19 <Morbus> well, i don't find one-shot classification useful.
02:21:26 <Morbus> i don't /want/ one-shot classification, and my system already supports it
02:21:47 <Arnia> how isn't it useful?
02:21:54 <Arnia> What's this for?
02:21:59 <Morbus> videounderbelly.com.
02:22:53 <Morbus> http://www.videounderbelly.com/wiki/Category:Chinese-language_posters_and_covers
02:22:59 <Morbus> the centipede horror poster is cantonese.
02:23:26 <Morbus> but, for example, the Chinese poster for Antropophagus, well, /I/ certainly don't know, and I don't think the original uplaoder does either.
02:27:11 <Arnia> Hierarchical classification then
02:28:13 <Arnia> From my perspective though, flagging all Chinese languages the same you may as well not flag at all. There is far too much variation
02:29:19 <Morbus> but, the question is: what is least damaging? the illusion of proper classification, or the illusion of none?
02:29:49 <Morbus> no one knows chinese or the dialects in this project. to create the illusion that we know the difference, with Cantonese category, indicates that all the rest in Chinese /are/ Chinese. When, due to our ignorance, they may not be.
02:29:55 <Morbus> I'd much rather profess entire ignorance, then lie.
02:30:13 <Arnia> Don't mis-classify. It really annoys :)
02:30:54 <Morbus> but that's the thing. we /will/ be misclassifying due to ignorance.
02:31:16 <Morbus> and if we classify a little, based on what other people say, the /implication/ is that everything in the Chinese category is, in fact, Chinese.
02:31:23 <Morbus> when that may be wrong. that's a lie.
02:31:42 <Arnia> http://www.alias-i.com/lingpipe/demos/tutorial/langid/read-me.html
02:31:59 <Arnia> Then don't classify things you can't be certain of
02:31:59 <Morbus> not interested.
02:33:19 <Morbus> that, ideally, means that nothing gets classified.
02:33:43 <Morbus> if a translator reads back something as "German", when it's technically "Austrian", every German poster is invalid.
02:33:50 <Arnia> Who said anything about ideally? We're talking pragmatically here
02:34:09 <Morbus> nearly every foreign language category becomes useless because /I/ am not an expert on language.
02:34:33 <Arnia> You don't need a total, complete and thorough taxonomy. You just need to make stuff easy to find.
02:34:40 <Morbus> bingo!
02:34:47 <Arnia> This basically means, don't break expectations
02:34:48 <Morbus> which is why I want to throw everything in German and Chinese.
02:35:08 <Morbus> the people who know better can make the subclassification.
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02:35:20 <Morbus> the people who don't know better won't know to check Cantonese AND Chinese to find posters from that region.
02:35:31 <Morbus> (until an hour ago, I didn't know Cantonese was related to Chinese, for example)
02:36:30 <Arnia> Well, you don't have to have a unique classification surely :p
02:36:38 <Arnia> Things can appear in more than one place
02:36:49 <Morbus> sue.
02:36:51 <Morbus> *re
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02:56:11 <Monty> hey lisppaste2
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03:02:43 <Monty> But what does cr`x have to do with the price of fish?
03:02:46 <phenny> Hush there, Monty.
03:02:46 <Monty> Does talking about this bother you ?
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06:33:23 <_bjoern> countdown
06:33:24 <Monty> One large one and five small numbers: 75, 3, 6, 4, 8, 4. Your target is 878. You have thirty seconds, tick, tock, tick, tock...
06:33:38 <_bjoern> calc (8+4)*(75-3)
06:33:39 <Monty> _bjoern: 864
06:33:54 <Monty> Duh dum, duh dum, duh-da-da-dum! Your 30 seconds are up!
06:33:56 <Monty> I found a solution in approximately 38 milliseconds. I found all 60 solutions in about 241 milliseconds.
06:33:57 <Monty> ibot (75*3 - 4)*4 - 6
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06:47:32 <xover> phenny: tell sbp http://www.boingboing.net/2008/01/31/oldest-accurate-road.html
06:47:34 <phenny> xover: I'll pass that on when sbp is around. I'll have to use a pastebin, though, so your message may get lost.
06:49:38 <xover> phenny: Why do you lie? I've never once seen you actually deliver a message via pastebin.
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06:55:45 <_bjoern> phenny, tell xover a
06:55:46 <_bjoern> phenny, tell xover b
06:55:47 <_bjoern> phenny, tell xover c
06:55:47 <phenny> _bjoern: I'll pass that on when xover is around.
06:55:48 <_bjoern> phenny, tell xover d
06:55:49 <phenny> _bjoern: I'll pass that on when xover is around.
06:55:49 <_bjoern> phenny, tell xover e
06:55:51 <phenny> _bjoern: I'll pass that on when xover is around.
06:55:53 <phenny> _bjoern: I'll pass that on when xover is around.
06:55:55 <phenny> _bjoern: I'll pass that on when xover is around. I'll have to use a pastebin, though, so your message may get lost.
06:56:04 <xover> .
06:56:06 <phenny> xover: 08:39Z <_bjoern> tell xover a
06:56:09 <phenny> xover: 08:39Z <_bjoern> tell xover b
06:56:12 <phenny> xover: 08:39Z <_bjoern> tell xover c
06:56:15 <phenny> xover: 08:39Z <_bjoern> tell xover d
06:56:19 <phenny> (Some messages were elided and lost...)
06:56:33 <xover> SEE? SEE?
06:56:53 <_bjoern> BUGZ
06:57:00 <xover> LIEZ
06:57:20 <_bjoern> DEZEPTIONZ
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07:39:37 <_bjoern> counrdonw
07:39:40 <_bjoern> counrdown
07:39:48 <_bjoern> ...
07:39:50 <_bjoern> countdown
07:39:51 <Monty> One large one and five small numbers: 50, 3, 7, 6, 1, 10. Your target is 323. You have thirty seconds, tick, tock, tick, tock...
07:40:12 <_bjoern> calc 7*(50 - 10 + 6)
07:40:12 <Monty> _bjoern: 322
07:40:17 <_bjoern> calc 7*(50 - 10 + 6) + 1
07:40:17 <Monty> _bjoern: 323
07:40:21 <Monty> Duh dum, duh dum, duh-da-da-dum! Your 30 seconds are up!
07:40:22 <Monty> I found a solution in approximately 13 milliseconds. I found all 57 solutions in about 244 milliseconds.
07:40:24 <Monty> ibot (50 + 6 - 10)*7 + 1
07:50:45 <realist> There's 57 solutions?
07:51:42 <_bjoern> There is no documentation how Monty counts, but my guess is the solutions above count as 2.
07:51:47 <Monty> yo. is talented, creative, fresh, and sendmail? trying to bring me that lack of that all "you don't
07:56:40 <jlaiv> countdown
07:56:40 <Monty> One large one and five small numbers: 100, 4, 4, 1, 1, 10. Your target is 939. You have thirty seconds, tick, tock, tick, tock...
07:57:10 <Monty> Duh dum, duh dum, duh-da-da-dum! Your 30 seconds are up!
07:57:11 <Monty> Oh bugger, I don't think I can solve that one!
07:57:36 <jlaiv> countdown
07:57:36 <Monty> One large one and five small numbers: 75, 10, 10, 4, 1, 1. Your target is 844. You have thirty seconds, tick, tock, tick, tock...
07:57:50 <jlaiv> 75+4*10+10+1+1
07:58:06 <Monty> Duh dum, duh dum, duh-da-da-dum! Your 30 seconds are up!
07:58:06 <_bjoern> .calc (10+1)*(75+4)
07:58:07 <Monty> I found a solution in approximately 44 milliseconds. I found all 216 solutions in about 269 milliseconds.
07:58:09 <phenny> (10 + 1) * (75 + 4) = 869
07:58:09 <Monty> ibot (75 + 10 - 1)*10 + 4
07:58:31 <jlaiv> calc 1+!
07:58:33 <jlaiv> calc 1+1
07:58:33 <Monty> jlaiv: 2
07:58:40 <jlaiv> countdown
07:58:40 <Monty> One large one and five small numbers: 100, 4, 1, 8, 9, 2. Your target is 448. You have thirty seconds, tick, tock, tick, tock...
07:59:05 <jlaiv> calc (100+9)*4+8+2+1
07:59:05 <Monty> jlaiv: 447
07:59:10 <Monty> Duh dum, duh dum, duh-da-da-dum! Your 30 seconds are up!
07:59:12 <Monty> I found a solution in approximately 21 milliseconds. I found all 374 solutions in about 276 milliseconds.
07:59:25 <Monty> ibot (100*9 - 4)/2
08:00:04 <jlaiv> countdown
08:00:04 <Monty> One large one and five small numbers: 25, 8, 10, 4, 4, 7. Your target is 725. You have thirty seconds, tick, tock, tick, tock...
08:00:20 <jlaiv> calc 25*(10+8+7+4)+4
08:00:20 <Monty> jlaiv: 729
08:00:23 <jlaiv> calc 25*(10+8+7+4)
08:00:23 <Monty> jlaiv: 725
08:00:34 <Monty> Duh dum, duh dum, duh-da-da-dum! Your 30 seconds are up!
08:00:35 <Monty> I found a solution in approximately 14 milliseconds. I found all 100 solutions in about 313 milliseconds.
08:00:37 <Monty> ibot (10*4 - 4 - 7)*25
08:00:51 <jlaiv> countdown
08:00:51 <Monty> One large one and five small numbers: 100, 7, 7, 9, 4, 1. Your target is 615. You have thirty seconds, tick, tock, tick, tock...
08:01:05 <jlaiv> calc (100-9-7)*7
08:01:05 <Monty> jlaiv: 588
08:01:09 <jlaiv> calc (100-9-7+4)*7
08:01:09 <Monty> jlaiv: 616
08:01:12 <jlaiv> calc (100-9-7+4)*7-1
08:01:12 <Monty> jlaiv: 615
08:01:21 <Monty> Duh dum, duh dum, duh-da-da-dum! Your 30 seconds are up!
08:01:22 <Monty> I found a solution in approximately 56 milliseconds. I found all 44 solutions in about 244 milliseconds.
08:01:24 <Monty> ibot (100 - 7 - 9 + 4)*7 - 1
08:01:34 <jlaiv> countdown
08:01:34 <Monty> One large one and five small numbers: 75, 8, 2, 8, 9, 8. Your target is 167. You have thirty seconds, tick, tock, tick, tock...
08:01:45 <jlaiv> calc (75+8+9-8)*2
08:01:45 <Monty> jlaiv: 168
08:01:59 <jlaiv> calc (75+9)*2
08:01:59 <Monty> jlaiv: 168
08:02:04 <jlaiv> calc (75+9)*2+8-9
08:02:04 <Monty> jlaiv: 167
08:02:06 <Monty> Duh dum, duh dum, duh-da-da-dum! Your 30 seconds are up!
08:02:07 <Monty> I found a solution in approximately 12 milliseconds. I found all 492 solutions in about 244 milliseconds.
08:02:09 <Monty> ibot 75*2 + 9 + 8
08:03:25 <jlaiv> nerf bots
08:04:27 <jlaiv> calc 2^3
08:04:27 <Monty> jlaiv: 8
08:04:39 <jlaiv> calc root(2)
08:04:44 <jlaiv> calc 2^0.5
08:04:44 <Monty> jlaiv: 1.4142135623730951
08:04:49 <jlaiv> calc pi
08:04:49 <Monty> jlaiv: 3.141592653589793
08:04:53 <jlaiv> calc e
08:04:53 <Monty> jlaiv: 2.718281828459045
08:05:05 <jlaiv> calc i
08:05:06 <Monty> jlaiv: Hmm, a wibbly complex number... (0.0, 1.0)
08:05:25 <jlaiv> calc i^pi
08:05:25 <Monty> jlaiv: Hmm, a wibbly complex number... (0.22058404074969779, -0.9753679720836315)
08:05:42 <jlaiv> calc sin(30)
08:05:42 <Monty> jlaiv: -0.9880316240928618
08:06:00 <jlaiv> calc cosec(pi/6)
08:06:07 <jlaiv> calc cosin(pi/6)
08:06:16 <jlaiv> calc sin(pi/6)
08:06:17 <Monty> jlaiv: 0.49999999999999994
08:07:29 <jlaiv> csc(pi/6)
08:07:39 <jlaiv> sec(pi/6)
08:08:34 <jlaiv> calc csc(pi/6)
08:08:42 <jlaiv> calc -1^0.5
08:08:42 <Monty> jlaiv: -1
08:08:52 <jlaiv> calc 1/0
08:08:52 <Monty> jlaiv: Infinity
08:09:04 <jlaiv> calc i^2
08:09:04 <Monty> jlaiv: -1
08:09:25 <jlaiv> <jlaiv> calc -1^0.5
08:09:25 <jlaiv> <Monty> jlaiv: -1
08:09:26 <Monty> tickles legs?!
08:09:34 <jlaiv> ERROR!!!
08:09:46 <jlaiv> recode the bot plz
08:10:02 <jlaiv> -16^0.5
08:10:06 <jlaiv> calc -16^0.5
08:10:07 <Monty> jlaiv: -4
08:10:19 <jlaiv> calc x+x
08:10:36 <jlaiv> !help
08:10:37 <swhask> help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands
08:11:21 <jlaiv> calc i^(1/3)
08:11:21 <Monty> jlaiv: Hmm, a wibbly complex number... (0.8660254037844387, 0.49999999999999994)
08:11:41 <xover> BOTS! BOTS!
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08:13:04 <jlaiv> calc infinity*infinity
08:13:09 <jlaiv> calc (1/0
08:13:12 <jlaiv> calc (1/0)
08:13:13 <Monty> jlaiv: Infinity
08:13:20 <jlaiv> calc (1/0)*(1/0)
08:13:20 <Monty> jlaiv: Infinity
08:13:28 <jlaiv> calc (1/0)+1
08:13:28 <Monty> jlaiv: Infinity
08:13:33 <jlaiv> no fool
08:13:37 <jlaiv> its Infinity+1
08:14:02 <jlaiv> calc (1/0)/(1/0)
08:14:03 <Monty> jlaiv: NaN
08:14:10 <jlaiv> whoa wtf is a NaN
08:14:18 <jlaiv> calc NaN*(1/0)
08:14:34 <jlaiv> calc NaN*infinity
08:14:34 <xover> .wik NaN
08:14:37 <phenny> "In computing, NaN (Not a Number) is a value or symbol that is usually produced as the result of an operation on invalid input operands, especially in floating-point calculations." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NaN
08:14:38 <jlaiv> calc NaN/0
08:14:46 <jlaiv> cool :)
08:22:55 <jlaiv> calc 0/0
08:22:55 <Monty> jlaiv: NaN
08:23:07 <jlaiv> calc 0*(1/0)
08:23:07 <Monty> jlaiv: NaN
08:23:21 <jlaiv> calc (1/0)-(1/0)
08:23:21 <Monty> jlaiv: NaN
08:24:27 <jlaiv> calc 1/((1/0)-1
08:24:31 <jlaiv> ...
08:24:37 <jlaiv> calc 1/((1/0)-1)
08:24:38 <Monty> jlaiv: 0
08:24:49 <jlaiv> calc 1/(1/0)
08:24:49 <Monty> jlaiv: 0
08:25:20 <jlaiv> calc i/0
08:25:20 <Monty> jlaiv: Hmm, a wibbly complex number... (NaN, Infinity)
08:25:33 <jlaiv> calc (-i/0)
08:25:33 <Monty> jlaiv: Hmm, a wibbly complex number... (NaN, -Infinity)
08:25:45 <jlaiv> calc (-i/0)/(i/0)
08:25:45 <Monty> jlaiv: Hmm, a wibbly complex number... (NaN, NaN)
08:25:49 <jlaiv> calc (-i/0)/(-i/0)
08:25:49 <Monty> jlaiv: Hmm, a wibbly complex number... (NaN, NaN)
08:26:00 <jlaiv> calc (-i/0)-(i/0)
08:26:01 <Monty> jlaiv: Hmm, a wibbly complex number... (NaN, -Infinity)
08:26:03 <jlaiv> calc (i/0)-(i/0)
08:26:04 <Monty> jlaiv: Hmm, a wibbly complex number... (NaN, NaN)
08:26:18 <jlaiv> calc (i/0)^2-(i/0)
08:26:19 <Monty> jlaiv: Hmm, a wibbly complex number... (NaN, NaN)
08:26:23 <jlaiv> i^2
08:26:28 <jlaiv> calc i^2
08:26:28 <Monty> jlaiv: -1
08:26:42 <jlaiv> calc i/0
08:26:42 <Monty> jlaiv: Hmm, a wibbly complex number... (NaN, Infinity)
08:26:49 <jlaiv> calc (i/0)*-1
08:26:49 <Monty> jlaiv: Hmm, a wibbly complex number... (NaN, -Infinity)
08:26:54 <jlaiv> calc (i/0)*i
08:26:54 <Monty> jlaiv: Hmm, a wibbly complex number... (NaN, NaN)
08:26:57 <jlaiv> calc (i/0)*-i
08:26:57 <Monty> jlaiv: Hmm, a wibbly complex number... (NaN, NaN)
08:27:05 <jlaiv> calc (i^2/0)
08:27:05 <Monty> jlaiv: -Infinity
08:27:35 <jlaiv> calc (i^2/0)/(i/0)
08:27:35 <Monty> jlaiv: Hmm, a wibbly complex number... (NaN, NaN)
08:27:54 <jlaiv> calc (i^2/0)*(i/0)
08:27:54 <Monty> jlaiv: Hmm, a wibbly complex number... (NaN, -Infinity)
08:28:07 <jlaiv> calc (i^2/0)*(0)
08:28:07 <Monty> jlaiv: NaN
08:28:56 <jlaiv> calc i+1
08:28:57 <Monty> jlaiv: Hmm, a wibbly complex number... (1.0, 1.0)
08:30:02 <jlaiv> calc ((i+1)/0)
08:30:03 <Monty> jlaiv: Hmm, a wibbly complex number... (Infinity, Infinity)
08:30:09 <jlaiv> calc -((i+1)/0)
08:30:09 <Monty> jlaiv: Hmm, a wibbly complex number... (-Infinity, -Infinity)
08:30:23 <jlaiv> calc -((i+1)^2/0)
08:30:23 <Monty> jlaiv: Hmm, a wibbly complex number... (-Infinity, -Infinity)
08:30:40 <jlaiv> calc -((i+1)/0)*-((i+1)/0)
08:30:40 <Monty> jlaiv: Hmm, a wibbly complex number... (NaN, Infinity)
08:31:05 <jlaiv> calc (-i/0)*(-i/0)
08:31:05 <Monty> jlaiv: Hmm, a wibbly complex number... (NaN, NaN)
08:31:36 <jlaiv> calc (-i/0)
08:31:36 <Monty> jlaiv: Hmm, a wibbly complex number... (NaN, -Infinity)
08:34:13 <jlaiv> calc -0*(1/0)
08:34:13 <Monty> jlaiv: NaN
08:35:06 <jlaiv> calc 1+1;2+3
08:35:15 <jlaiv> calc 1+1; calc 2+3
08:35:43 <jlaiv> calc 1+1,2+3
08:35:55 <jlaiv> !Monty
08:35:55 <swhask> pointful module failed: IRCRaised ./Lib/Pointful.hs:38:24-51: Non-exhaustive patterns in lambda
08:35:56 <Monty> woah, major lag
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08:38:17 <phenny> sbp: 00:39Z <_bjoern> tell sbp http://failblog.wordpress.com/2008/01/31/fail-gull/
08:38:21 <phenny> sbp: 00:41Z <_bjoern> tell sbp http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5gIwdDGL4A1bYAAQCky20HphwLDiw
08:38:25 <phenny> sbp: 01:13Z <Morbus> tell sbp no, i don't think a dictionary is a good idea.
08:38:28 <phenny> sbp: 02:00Z <chandler> tell sbp I haven't gotten around to fixing the unicode problems yet (bah), and the custom content types thing I did to prevent someone from serving an .exe or something as part of a virus
08:38:33 <phenny> (Some messages were elided and lost...)
08:38:45 <sbp> ô phenny, how do you even know I'm here?
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08:43:49 <sbp> heh, that AFP story is great
08:44:22 *** sbp changed the topic to: "Fail Gull"
08:47:09 <darobin> .title http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7213571.stm
08:47:13 <phenny> darobin: BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | 'Bizarre' new mammal discovered
08:47:22 <darobin> [[The cat-sized animal, which is reported in the Journal of Zoology, looks like a cross between a miniature antelope and a small ant eater.]]
08:47:29 <twe> Looks to be essentially a4 sized.
08:47:52 <darobin> [[In fact, the creature is more closely related to a group of African mammals, which include elephants, sea cows, aardvarks and hyraxes, having shared a common ancestor with them about 100 million years ago.]]
08:48:04 <darobin> quite true twe
08:48:12 <twe> I still don't get twe to be true.
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08:49:49 <bjoern_> lo p
08:50:53 <darobin> today's xkcd be funny
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09:07:01 * sbp sends a long reply to Kendall Clark
09:07:05 <sbp> yo bjoern_, darobin
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09:08:03 <darobin> yo dude sbp
09:08:14 <darobin> oooh, whatcha writing?
09:08:35 *** bjoern_ is now known as _bjoern
09:08:36 <sbp> bwahaha,it is
09:08:49 <sbp> oh, well Kendall wrote in response to my swipe at OWL yesterday
09:08:56 <sbp> so I explained more of where I'm coming from
09:09:05 <sbp> s/,/, /
09:09:14 <sbp> flipping space bar. hmm, though it seems to be okay now
09:09:22 <sbp> I guess that was just a sporadic instance of space bar failure
09:09:27 <sbp> FAILURE TO SPACE
09:10:17 <sbp> .gc "Rhynochocyon udzungwensis"
09:10:20 <phenny> "Rhynochocyon udzungwensis": 10
09:10:40 <sbp> phenny: tell Morbus (sure you've seen this five times elsewhere already today, but...) http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7213571.stm - new mammal discovered
09:10:42 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when morbus is around.
09:10:57 <sbp> phenny: tell Morbus (via _bjoern)
09:10:59 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when morbus is around.
09:11:07 <sbp> yeah magn
09:12:46 <_bjoern> Actually via that french guy.
09:23:07 <darobin> ah, I had completely forgotten that OWL even existed
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09:35:08 <sbp> darobin: http://inamidst.com/whits/2008/02#owldl
09:40:32 <darobin> shaboodle
09:40:58 <darobin> yes you're right
09:41:20 <darobin> but you can never tell people who are working on a technology that it's not super successful and pervasive
09:41:25 <darobin> never never never
09:41:34 <darobin> they'll just go "SO YOU HATE US???"
09:46:00 * darobin wonders what kind of hangover food he needs
09:46:15 <_bjoern> Racht.
09:46:36 <darobin> wazzat?
09:46:43 <darobin> phenny: "racht"?
09:46:57 <phenny> darobin: Hmm, got "irish"...
09:47:04 <darobin> phenny: de "racht"?
09:47:06 <phenny> darobin: "racht" (de)
09:49:39 <_bjoern> "Racht is a Klingon food consisting of live worms, resembling a larger version of gagh. When ordered, one should make sure that the racht is fresh. As the saying goes, "there's nothing worse than half-dead racht". (DS9: "Melora")" - http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Racht
09:50:29 <darobin> ah
09:50:31 <darobin> right
09:50:33 <darobin> no
09:50:45 <darobin> I don't think I'm honourable enough for that
09:51:31 <_bjoern> Well you were wondering about need, not about easily attainable.
09:52:46 <darobin> oh I can find worms
09:52:53 <darobin> I'm not sure I need the honour either
09:52:56 <darobin> sbp: http://releases.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/extensions/british_english_dictionary/british_english_dictionary-1.19-fx+zm+tb.xpi
09:53:16 <darobin> gah, 404
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09:53:55 <darobin> this works: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/browse/type:3
09:54:07 <sbp> oOh
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09:54:42 <sbp> darobin: well I do hate them, so tough titties! :-)
09:54:51 <sbp> aw man, don't quit when I'm being flippant
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10:01:10 <darobin> this is in colour
10:01:17 <darobin> wheee, proper spelling
10:02:50 <sbp> hehe
10:08:15 <darobin> sbp: maybe the modeller for Core Data (in XCode) could be made to produce OWL, which in turn could help it by making it easier to generate?
10:08:54 <darobin> it's a nice and simple ER modeller that can then do XML and SQL data stores
10:09:13 <darobin> I'd write more but my cat is eating my right hand
10:10:07 <sbp> ER?
10:10:21 <darobin> Entity Relationship
10:10:39 <darobin> do you have xcode?
10:10:50 <sbp> I think so yeah
10:11:34 <darobin> .title http://developer.apple.com/macosx/coredata.html
10:11:37 <phenny> darobin: Developing with Core Data
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10:13:38 <darobin> fuck me hard
10:13:40 <darobin> Microsoft Offers to Buy Yahoo for $44.6 Billion
10:15:09 <sbp> ...
10:15:11 <sbp> awesome
10:16:24 <darobin> interesting times :)
10:16:44 <sbp> they should buy the US govt.'s national debt
10:16:56 <sbp> so that the govt. will be even more of their bitch than they are now
10:17:36 <sbp> I suppose even MS couldn't afford a trillion dollars or whatever it is
10:19:11 <sbp> if I had a trillion dollars, I think I'd buy a country
10:19:25 <sbp> wonder what size country you could afford with a trillion dollars?
10:22:08 <danieljohnlewis> Luxembourg?
10:22:40 <danieljohnlewis> is it possible to buy a country?
10:22:47 <sbp> don't think so
10:22:58 <sbp> the problem is that you'd need to buy out all of the owners
10:23:12 <sbp> one of them is bound to say "nope, sorry"
10:23:26 <danieljohnlewis> yes, might as well do it the american way and conquer it giving them "freedom"
10:23:30 <sbp> bwahaha
10:23:33 <sbp> yeah
10:23:50 <sbp> that's not really funny, actually
10:24:05 <sbp> since they've created untold suffering
10:24:22 <danieljohnlewis> indeed
10:25:48 <sbp> I dunno, you might be able to buy Luxembourg for $1t
10:25:56 <sbp> it only has half a million inhabitants
10:26:03 <sbp> .calc 1 trillion / 500,000
10:26:05 <phenny> 1 trillion / 500 000 = two million
10:26:29 <sbp> hmm, so that's a million pounds incentive for each inhabitant
10:26:43 <sbp> once you start the ball rolling, it'd get very complex
10:27:02 <danieljohnlewis> ah yes, indeed, especially as its a duchy
10:27:02 <sbp> it'd be world news, it would create constitutional dilemmas, dilemmas in international law, and so on
10:27:26 <sbp> half of the trillion would undoubtedly go to lawyers...
10:27:44 <sbp> the lawyers would then buy an even smaller country and set up a lawyer state
10:27:53 <sbp> perhaps this wasn't such a good idea
10:28:38 <darobin> I'm sure there are some countries that you could buy
10:28:38 <darobin> a failed state of some sort
10:28:41 <darobin> phenny: ping
10:28:43 <phenny> pong
10:28:44 <darobin> Monty: ping
10:28:47 <Monty> No... the RHS ??? especially if you're my first human.
10:28:48 <darobin> mmmmmmm
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10:28:57 <sbp> 5yq5'w q q... yyq5?!
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10:29:02 <sbp> that's a point
10:29:09 <sbp> it doesn't have to be an existing country
10:29:12 <darobin> loggy: pointer
10:29:13 <loggy> http://swhack.com/logs/2008-02-01#T10-29-12
10:29:27 <sbp> you can just buy a huge part of an existing country, and then really work on setting up a framework for it
10:29:39 <darobin> .wik Central African Republic
10:29:41 <sbp> a trillion dollars would be far more than enough to do that
10:29:44 <phenny> "The Central African Republic (CAR, French: République Centrafricaine pronounced [ʀepyblik sɑ̃tʀafʀikɛn] or Centrafrique [sɑ̃tʀafʀik]) is a landlocked country in Central Africa." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_African_Republic
10:29:46 <darobin> that's a totally failed state
10:29:54 <sbp> I mean, it way exceeds most's GDPs
10:29:58 <darobin> you could take it over with a lot less than a trillion
10:30:09 <sbp> yes, but...
10:30:13 <sbp> then you'd get invaded and shit
10:30:20 <sbp> the security costs would be immense
10:30:27 <sbp> could buy quite a nice army for a trillion though
10:30:37 <sbp> but I think it might be easier in a more stable place
10:30:44 <sbp> somewhere in central Europe, for example
10:31:02 <sbp> or perhaps a wild bit of Scandinavia
10:31:26 <sbp> that might make a cool country
10:31:36 <darobin> true
10:31:42 <sbp> you'd buy a huge and sparsely populated bit of land
10:31:56 <sbp> then have a super-strict immigration policy
10:32:01 <darobin> but then in CAR you'd get elephants!
10:32:02 <darobin> http://images.google.com/images?client=opera&q=Central+African+Republic&sourceid=opera
10:32:21 <sbp> argh. that is a dilemma
10:32:31 <darobin> and these things: http://updatecenter.britannica.com/eb/image?binaryId=90458&rendTypeId=4
10:33:03 <sbp> strange blonde women too though: http://media.bonnint.net/apimage/ASVZ10202102002.jpg
10:33:20 <sbp> oh, it's Mia Farrow
10:33:33 <sbp> I like the striped things
10:33:41 <sbp> they look like chocolate biscuits on legs
10:33:58 <sbp> "Why are you staring at me, chocolate biscuit?"
10:34:00 <darobin> I think that's what they are
10:34:02 <sbp> hehe
10:34:15 <darobin> I think I'd go for an African country
10:34:26 <darobin> perhaps not CAR, though
10:34:28 <darobin> maybe Malawi
10:34:35 <sbp> I'm still going for Scandinavia, chocolate biscuits on legs aside
10:34:38 <sbp> because the heat sux
10:34:48 <sbp> also reindeer are cute
10:34:58 <darobin> it's not uberhot everywhere
10:35:11 <sbp> I find 25C to be hot
10:35:33 <darobin> me too
10:35:38 <darobin> but you could buy one of these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Great_Lakes
10:35:44 <sbp> ooh!
10:35:48 <sbp> a floating water city!
10:35:58 <sbp> we could put the walking chocolate biscuits on little rafts!
10:36:06 <darobin> you know... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Lake_Malawi%2C_view_from_Likoma_Island.jpg
10:36:17 <darobin> deal
10:36:21 <sbp> aw yeah, win
10:36:25 <sbp> easy to defend
10:36:40 <sbp> we could import penguins to make it look colder, too
10:36:45 <darobin> great
10:36:46 <sbp> some Galapagos penguins
10:36:55 <darobin> so now that we've reached consensus, all we need is a trillion
10:36:59 <sbp> yep
10:37:06 <sbp> any thoughts?
10:37:12 <darobin> I'm sure _bjoern has a plan
10:37:19 <sbp> ㋡
10:40:35 <darobin> okay, the biscuits have made me real hungry
10:40:40 <darobin> I'm off to hunt for food
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12:05:34 <nslater> yo
12:05:47 <nslater> i dont know where else to ask this question, but this channel seems as good a place as any
12:06:33 <nslater> there is an RFC somewhere which states explicitly that "<...>" should be used to delineate email addresses or URIs when usin plain text, but I can't find it. Any clues?
12:07:46 <sbp> 822?
12:08:16 <nslater> searching now
12:08:51 <nslater> yes
12:09:10 <nslater> thanks, shoulda known it would be 822 :)
12:09:15 <sbp> :-)
12:09:43 <sbp> note that it was obsoleted by 2822
12:10:24 <sbp> [[[
12:10:24 <sbp> Normally, a mailbox is comprised of two parts: (1)
12:10:24 <sbp>  an optional display name that indicates the name of the recipient
12:10:24 <sbp>  (which could be a person or a system) that could be displayed to the
12:10:24 <sbp>  user of a mail application, and (2) an addr-spec address enclosed in
12:10:25 <sbp>  angle brackets ("<" and ">").
12:10:29 <sbp> ]]] - http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2822.txt
12:12:19 <nsh> /you're/ RFC822
12:13:27 <sbp> me, or nslater?
12:13:30 <sbp> or Monty?
12:13:31 <Monty> ha!
12:21:44 <nslater> monty disturbes me
12:21:46 <Monty> A computer isn't gonna shoot
12:22:02 <nslater> yeah, but you still disturbe me monty
12:22:05 <Monty> * with Firefox make undecidable so not ... then
12:22:06 <dpawson> sbp, http://xdxf.revdanica.com/ may interest you.
12:22:53 <nslater> zomg, is that dpawson from http://www.dpawson.co.uk/?
12:23:11 <dpawson> nslater, Yes, that's right
12:23:55 <nslater> dpawson: woah, fantastic. i *love* your site, you have no idea how many times it's helped me grok something or fix some bug of some sort. seriously, thank you so much.
12:24:08 <dpawson> More than welcome.
12:24:23 <nslater> how did you compile it all? was it a manual process?
12:24:32 <dpawson> yes, since '98
12:24:46 <dpawson> Using docbook website variant
12:24:47 <nslater> wow, my hats of to you. great job! :D
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12:34:46 <Monty> lo cr`x
12:36:15 <Jabberwock> nwalsh_: Hello there my little shnuggle tootz. It's wonderful to see you today. You're looking marvelous as always
12:39:22 <nsh> .ety engross
12:39:24 <phenny> "c.1304, from O.Fr. en gros 'in bulk, in a large quantity, at wholesale,' as opposed to en detail." - http://etymonline.com/?term=engross
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12:47:08 <_bjoern> .title http://www.wyff4.com/news/15175549/detail.html
12:47:21 <phenny> _bjoern: Lawmaker: Underage Soldiers Should Be Able To Drink - Greenville News Story - WYFF Greenville
12:52:24 <Jabberwock> !?
12:52:25 <swhask> Maybe you meant: . v
12:52:27 <Jabberwock> On the front line?
12:52:31 <Jabberwock> Or all the time?
12:52:53 <nsh> ! . v
12:53:07 <nsh> ! . v ?
12:53:24 <nsh> !?.v
12:53:24 <swhask> Maybe you meant: . v
12:53:38 <nsh> maybe /you're/ " . v"
12:53:46 <Jabberwock> Looks like John McCain is going to win the republican votes
12:57:18 <Morbus> what's the name of that famous author/poet that wanted lowercase l etters?
12:57:23 <Morbus> i thought it was eb white, but i can't recal.
12:58:57 <Jabberwock> Was he irish?
12:59:26 <Jabberwock> was it Henry Longfellow?
12:59:34 <Jabberwock> Edward Cummings?
12:59:41 <Jabberwock> He signed his poems in all lowercase
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13:16:19 <nsh> .w smearcase
13:16:21 <phenny> I couldn't find 'smearcase' in WordNet.
13:16:27 <nsh> .wik smearcase
13:16:30 <phenny> "Cottage cheese is a cheese curd product with a mild flavor." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smearcase
13:17:19 <nsh> sounds superbly untasty
13:17:34 <nsh> .w percase
13:17:36 <phenny> I couldn't find 'percase' in WordNet.
13:20:30 <sbp> dpawson: thanks! looking through the docs now
13:20:53 <sbp> "Dictionary entries in XDXF are called *articles*"
13:20:57 <sbp> — http://xdxf.revdanica.com/drafts/logical/05a/XDXF_manual.html
13:21:03 <sbp> (why aren't they called dictionary entries?)
13:21:53 <nsh> you're an article of bore
13:22:07 <nsh> only jokes, sry
13:22:19 *** sbp changed the topic to: "fəˈnetɪk ˈskrɪpt"
13:22:24 * sbp steals nsh's jokes machine
13:23:07 <Jabberwock> That's not funny.
13:23:28 <nsh> but i need the sperdunkle-ring for majnashun enjun
13:24:14 <sbp> you can have the sperdunkle-ring. nothing else
13:25:06 <nsh> diamond thanklets
13:25:37 <nsh> .wik acroamatic
13:25:46 <phenny> "For a time I flippantly answered, “a test of a really good dictionary . . .”" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:The_Epopt
13:25:48 <sbp> <ping> my god in the last week i've developed quite the dislike for banks already
13:25:48 <sbp> <quipper> oh
13:25:48 <sbp> <quipper> customer?
13:25:48 <sbp> <ping> Yeah. Talking to people in india for hours and hours
13:25:48 <sbp> <ping> thank god for headsets
13:25:50 <sbp> <quipper> bah
13:25:52 <sbp> <ping> please hold <extremely staticy music, so noisy I had difficulty making out it was Celine Dion>
13:25:56 <sbp> <sbp> ping: surely that's for the best
13:25:58 <sbp> (named changed to protect the innocent)
13:26:09 <nsh> hehe
13:26:29 <nsh> .gc acroamatic
13:26:31 <phenny> acroamatic: 13,300
13:26:52 <nsh> .ety acroamatic
13:26:54 <phenny> Can't find the etymology for "acroamatic". Try http://etymonline.com/?search=acroamatic
13:27:07 <sbp> epopt: great
13:27:12 <xover> nslater, sbp: You're both thinking of RFC1738 (section «APPENDIX: Recommendations for URLs in Context») which has been obsoleted by RFC3986 (section « Appendix C. Delimiting a URI in Context»).
13:27:37 <sbp> xover: person@example.org isn't a URI
13:28:00 <sbp> the mailto scheme doesn't allow relative references
13:28:07 <sbp> and I don't put the "mailto:" in emails; nobody does
13:28:21 * nsh rolls his eyes
13:28:26 <xover> RFC3986 lists doubke quotes, extra white space, or <>; recommends especially <> when the URI contains whitespace, and deprecates the previous recommended <URL: …> syntax.
13:28:49 <sbp> irrelevant
13:29:13 <xover> sbp: The angle brackets in the RFC2822 ABNF has a completely different function.
13:30:13 <nsh> when you have discussions like this, the aliens laugh at us :-(
13:30:20 <sbp> oh, I see what you mean now that I re-read nslater's question
13:30:25 <xover> :-)
13:30:39 <sbp> I only read as far as "used to delineate email"
13:30:50 <sbp> all the same, that doesn't answer his question
13:30:51 <nslater> xover: thank you!
13:30:58 <xover> And getting MUAs to actually use that syntax is surprisingly hard.
13:30:58 <nslater> it perfectly answer my question
13:31:14 <nslater> im not thinking about MUAs
13:31:17 <sbp> I guess half of the answer then is: no RFC states that they should be used to delimit *email addresses* in plain text
13:31:18 <xover> I've been bitching at Bare Bones, e.g., for ages now and they still insist on the old format.
13:31:31 <sbp> nsh: you're an alien
13:32:11 <xover> OTOH, Mailsmith /does/ check that you've properly delimited your URLs in the message body. :-)
13:32:11 <nsh> and /you're/ the achronistic life of angers
13:32:15 <nsh> *angels
13:32:22 <sbp> nslater: sorry for accidentally spinning you an frcyarn
13:32:27 <sbp> f/frc/rfc/
13:32:33 <sbp> f/?!
13:32:49 <sbp> nsh: and you're a barn on the moon filled with Bender's hookers and blackjack
13:33:02 <sbp> the barn's name is Ernie the Barn and it's made of reinforced Hafnium
13:33:41 * nsh pours milk on the frosted pornflakes of life
13:33:54 <nslater> lol
13:33:54 <nsh> (milk typed itself as pink in that sentence - go figure)
13:34:07 <nslater> what does this [off] malarky mean?
13:34:10 <sbp> porn is a red word
13:34:17 <sbp> and milk being white...
13:34:21 <xover> .gc "red word"
13:34:23 <sbp> nslater: because we're publically logged
13:34:23 <phenny> "red word": 26,400
13:34:26 <_bjoern> 04porn
13:34:28 <nslater> aha
13:34:32 <sbp> so [off] prevents us from being logged
13:35:10 *** ndw (n=ndw@66-189-4-239.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com) has joined #swhack
13:35:12 <nsh> [pff] yeah, well shitrude..
13:35:25 <xover> .gc shitrude
13:35:28 <phenny> shitrude: 139
13:35:37 <Jabberwock> /clear/clear
13:35:39 <xover> Hmm. We seem to be at an impasse.
13:35:50 <sbp> just can't raise our shitrudes?
13:36:06 <Tene> .gc shitrude -swhack
13:36:09 <phenny> shitrude -swhack: 16
13:36:10 <xover> What, none of you lot have blogs that can be exploited for a good cause?
13:36:25 <sbp> 100, 122, 112, 131, 143, 134, 134, 135, 135
13:36:30 <nsh> .gs acroamatic *
13:36:31 <sbp> I see those as our results since early December
13:36:33 <phenny> acroamatic *: says (4), wrote (3), cryptograms (3), cipher (3), teaching szlezak (2), say goodbye (2), said (2), dracoid (2), discursive (2), aww (2), arcane cabalistic (2), acroobat (2), acroam
13:36:45 <sbp> so yeah, all this year we've been kinda sucking
13:36:56 <nsh> .gs acroatick *
13:36:59 <phenny> acroatick *: parts, acrobate
13:37:52 *** jewel has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
13:37:55 *** sbp changed the topic to: "<danbri> gender's all about "doing it", right? and Agents are things that do stuff. QED."
13:39:02 <lisppaste2> sbp pasted "the shitrude awesome phenny join function" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/55209
13:39:17 <sbp> there we go. that'll add one
13:41:12 <xover> sbp: Did DanC say he was writing XHTML _5_ specifically?
13:41:28 *** nwalsh_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
13:41:31 <darobin> where's that danbri quote from?
13:42:04 <sbp> ‘The "classic era" of hot rod construction ended around 1965, partly because the supply of vintage tin had diminished, but mostly because new cars were equipped for greater speed and power from the factory with little or no modification required.’
13:42:07 <sbp> — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_rod
13:42:15 <sbp> darobin: from Google, [shitrude -swhack]
13:42:27 <sbp> xover: well that was my question to him, yeah
13:42:36 <sbp> but I've seen that he does tend to throw in @profile when he needs it
13:43:02 <sbp> of course, XHTML 5 entails much of XHTML 1.0 anyway
13:43:06 <sbp> you just whip the doctype off
13:43:24 <sbp> what I was really interested in is whether he's serving as text/html or application/xhtml+xml
13:43:30 <sbp> and it appears from his answer that it's the latter
13:43:36 <xover> Right. I was about to ask; are you sure he's not writing HTML 4 using XML syntax and leaving off the DOCTYPE.
13:43:55 <xover> Because DanC was the first to bitch about DOCTYPE and wanted to leave it off his HTML 4 documents.
13:43:57 <sbp> I mean, the HTML 5 that I write would be valid XHTML 5 too if I left off the <!DOCTYPE html> (and even if not, I think)
13:44:26 <sbp> well, a while ago he said he's including <!DOCTYPE html> in as many documents as he can
13:44:32 <sbp> so presumably he's actually using it with XHTML
13:44:42 <sbp> lemme see where I asked *that* question...
13:45:10 <sbp> here: http://chatlogs.planetrdf.com/swig/2007-06-28.html#T16-37-51
13:45:30 <darobin> heh
13:45:48 <sbp> 16:38:36 <DanC> "<!DOCTYPE html>" is an HTML 5 -ism. I use it to test the hypothesis in the HTML 5 editors draft that it's compatible with everything.
13:46:33 <sbp> ah, I first noticed it in view-source:http://www.w3.org/People/Connolly/
13:46:45 <sbp> .head http://www.w3.org/People/Connolly/ Content-Type
13:46:48 <phenny> Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
13:47:03 <sbp> well *that's* not XHTML, so it's not 100% after all
13:48:03 <sbp> oh, wait
13:48:03 <sbp> [[[
13:48:03 <sbp> XHTML documents (XML documents using elements from the HTML namespace) that use the new features described in this specification and that are served over the wire (e.g. by HTTP) must be sent using an XML MIME type such as application/xml or application/xhtml+xml and must not be served as text/html.
13:48:04 <sbp> ]]]
13:48:10 <sbp> - http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-html5-20080122/
13:48:15 <xover> Yeah, Microsoft didn't discover the problems with “Compatible wth everything” as an approach until their version 8 or so of Word.
13:48:23 <sbp> that implies that you can send XHTML 5 as text/html if you don't use the new features
13:48:29 <sbp> but then... sigh
13:48:31 <sbp> this is confusing
13:49:09 *** nwalsh_ (n=ndw@nat/sun/x-527c282fc70de560) has joined #swhack
13:49:25 <xover> No, that says XHTML documents MUST be sent as app/x+x and MUST NOT be sent as text/html.
13:49:50 <xover> Hmm. No again.
13:49:54 <sbp> what about the "that use the new features described in this specification" bit?
13:50:03 <sbp> that implies that if they don't use such features...
13:50:06 <xover> There's an “and” missing that my wetware parser apparently requires.
13:50:27 <jsled> Or, use old features that intent to be interpreted as described in this spec?
13:50:32 <jsled> intend, even.
13:50:51 <sbp> and aren't some HTML5 documents perfectly valid XHTML5 documents?
13:51:02 <sbp> i.e. there are documents for which you can simply choose the media type
13:51:14 <xover> Yeah, the problem is that WTFHTML subsumes all previus standards, so _all_ HTML and XHTML are by definition “using the new features described…”.
13:51:17 <sbp> in fact, I believe that's by design to "ease the transition from XHTML 1.0 to HTML5"
13:51:19 <Jabberwock> HTML5?
13:51:21 <Jabberwock> That's new to me.
13:52:09 <sbp> this for example: <!DOCTYPE html><html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"><head><title>.</title></head><body></body></html>
13:52:36 <sbp> I think you could serve that as text/html or application/xhtml+xml and be compliant HTML5 for the former and compliant XHTML5 for the latter
13:52:50 <Jabberwock> It doesn't have the xml construct
13:53:12 <Jabberwock> so it's not valid xml
13:53:14 <sbp> the XML declaration is optional if the encoding is utf-8, utf-16, or utf-32
13:53:22 <Jabberwock> oh.
13:53:24 <sbp> which as this only uses the ascii range of utf-8, is
13:53:57 <xover> Well, I've served the same bits as HTML4 and XHTML1.1. Doesn't make them “the same document”.
13:54:09 <sbp> (and you're thinking about "well formed", not "valid")
13:54:31 <sbp> the same bits as HTML 4 and XHTML 1.1? that's not possible, I believe
13:54:36 <xover> And it quickly comes down to your definition of ”same document”.
13:54:46 <sbp> good point
13:54:52 <Jabberwock> HTML4 meta tags won't be valid XHTML will they?
13:54:53 <sbp> they'll have different DOM5s
13:54:57 <Jabberwock> Or img or any other self closer
13:54:58 <nslater> no
13:55:26 <sbp> I was more worried about the xmlns attribute
13:55:58 <Jabberwock> What about it?
13:56:10 <sbp> it's required in XHTML 1.1, forbidden in HTML 4.01
13:56:37 <Jabberwock> What about HTML5?
13:57:10 <sbp> it's optional in HTML5
13:57:20 <Jabberwock> Is there a good reason you're using XHTML 1.1 as opposed to HTML 4.01?
13:57:31 <sbp> who?
13:57:35 <Jabberwock> I use XHTMl 1.0 and 1.1 but it's not a requirement. I do it because it's comfortable
13:57:45 <Jabberwock> You
13:57:51 <sbp> I'm using XHTML 1.1?
13:57:56 <Jabberwock> Aren't you?
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13:58:05 <sbp> don't think so. lemme check
13:58:22 <Jabberwock> I missed the beginning of the convo
13:59:04 <sbp> apparently I'm not; no valid documents, that is
13:59:11 <sbp> I am serving one (incorrectly) as text/html
13:59:14 <Jabberwock> It's all pointless anyway as long as the majority of users use IE6 which, if I recall, does not understand application/xhtml+xml
13:59:25 <sbp> but it was xover who mentioned XHTML 1.1
13:59:29 <Jabberwock> oh
13:59:34 <sbp> and he didn't mention which way he went. I'm still baffled by his comment
13:59:45 <Jabberwock> XHTML 1.1 has too many restrictions for me
14:00:24 <sbp> like what?
14:00:32 <Jabberwock> Lack of iframes which I use for ajax uploads
14:00:43 <Jabberwock> And I believe it removes the target attribute from anchor tags
14:01:09 *** kpreid has quit ()
14:01:15 <Jabberwock> I feel that's silly. I understand the annoyance of opening new windows. But if you follow 508 and explain in the title that it opens a new window, what's the big deal?
14:01:51 *** kpreid (n=kpreid@cpe-24-59-154-165.twcny.res.rr.com) has joined #swhack
14:01:55 <Jabberwock> I can't recall if that was 508 or some other standard
14:02:24 <sbp> I don't mind it particularly if the user can override it
14:02:31 <sbp> and that's a UA issue really
14:02:42 <Jabberwock> It's under one of the standards
14:02:51 <Jabberwock> You have to have "Details in new window" in the title attribute
14:03:34 <Jabberwock> (or something of similar nature that describes what is going to happen when they click)
14:03:45 <sbp> oho: http://about.validator.nu/#src
14:04:33 <Jabberwock> cool
14:05:13 <Jabberwock> How are webservers supposed to know the difference between xhtml and html?
14:05:19 <twe> Send them to the html.
14:05:39 <Jabberwock> ?
14:05:49 <sbp> [[[
14:05:50 <sbp> <p>There was once an example from Femley,<br>
14:05:50 <sbp> Whose markup was of dubious quality.<br>
14:05:50 <sbp> The validator complained,<br>
14:05:50 <sbp> So the author was pained,<br>
14:05:50 <sbp> To move the error from the markup to the rhyming.</p>
14:05:52 <sbp> ]]]
14:06:07 <sbp> Jabberwock: use .xhtml for the XHTML?
14:06:17 <Jabberwock> That's what I was thinking
14:06:34 <sbp> or do crazy .htaccess shit
14:06:35 <Jabberwock> However I rarely use static xhtml like that
14:06:43 <Jabberwock> It'll be php or jsp or rhtml or what have you
14:06:54 <sbp> well it's easy then, isn't it?
14:07:07 <Jabberwock> eh.. If I sent my own headers
14:07:38 <Jabberwock> It would probably be easiest to set the web server to send application/xhtml+xml by default and then set html documents to text/html
14:09:07 <Jabberwock> It's flipping hysterical... there is an Indian guy a little ways down from me who has a bryan adams ring tone
14:09:26 <Jabberwock> He can hardly speak english and then out of nowhere you hear "I got muh first real six string in the summer of 69"
14:09:55 <Jabberwock> that was worded weird
14:10:19 <Jabberwock> It's like "You can't speak english. How do you even know about that song?"
14:11:08 <sbp> heh
14:11:21 <sbp> north american globalisation
14:11:48 <Jabberwock> It's so funny
14:12:02 <Jabberwock> He speaks Hindi to his buddy all day and then you hear that song blasting from his phone
14:13:21 * nsh frowns
14:13:26 *** dpawson has parted #swhack ("ttfn")
14:13:34 <nsh> someone signed me up to the chattering classes
14:13:40 <nsh> and i want to drop them
14:13:44 <Jabberwock> chattering?
14:13:48 <nsh> from a great height
14:13:51 <nsh> onto rocks
14:13:57 <nsh> 'pale
14:14:03 <nsh> ed
14:14:04 <nsh> !
14:14:23 <Jabberwock> What's stopping you?
14:14:58 <xover> .w chattering
14:15:01 <nsh> Hunter S. Thompson and his cadre of marmalade marmosats
14:15:04 <phenny> chattering n. 1: The rapid series of noises made by the parts of a machine
14:15:06 <phenny> chattering v. 1: Click repeatedly or uncontrollably
14:15:07 <phenny> chattering v. 2: Cut unevenly with a chattering tool.
14:15:13 <nsh> *marmosets ?
14:15:31 <Jabberwock> "Dog's fucked the pope! No fault of mine..." - Hunter S. Thompson
14:15:48 <sbp> http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-html5-20080122/#tag - ?!
14:16:10 <Jabberwock> dogs rather
14:16:29 <Jabberwock> That's quite an extensive web page
14:17:20 <sbp> aha, http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-tag
14:17:26 <Jabberwock> Sure that'll be used
14:17:52 <Jabberwock> Is that the same thing?
14:18:15 <sbp> “The last path component of the URL is the text of the tag”
14:18:36 <Jabberwock> I suppose that's for the sole purpose of SEO
14:19:19 <sbp> man, I hate this stuff so much
14:19:36 <sbp> puts my OWL grumbling into perspective
14:19:58 <Jabberwock> Are they doing this with the presumption that companies like google will utilize it?
14:20:50 <Jabberwock> It seems they're trying to force a specific implementation onto search engines which is exactly what search engines do not like to give out
14:21:22 <Jabberwock> Google is not going to divulge their secrets. But if you force things like tag on them then you have a good idea as to some of their strategy
14:21:34 <Jabberwock> I don't see this panning very well
14:21:55 *** jewel (n=jewel@dsl-242-166-234.telkomadsl.co.za) has joined #swhack
14:22:24 <nsh> .ety deranged
14:22:26 <phenny> Can't find the etymology for "deranged". Try http://etymonline.com/?search=deranged
14:22:39 * sbp considers adding "profile" to http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/RelExtensions
14:22:41 <nsh> .ety derange
14:22:43 <phenny> "1776, from Fr. déranger, from O.Fr. desrengier 'disarrange,' from des- 'do the opposite of' + reng 'line, row' (see rank)." - http://etymonline.com/?term=derange
14:22:57 <sbp> “You may add your own values to this list, which makes them legal HTML5 rel values.”
14:23:04 <sbp> as soon as I add it, it becomes legal HTML5!
14:23:14 <nsh> sbp: OED for 'deranged' pls bunny marshmallow hugs
14:23:19 <nsh> +rainbow
14:23:20 <sbp> okay, doing this
14:23:22 <sbp> okay, doing that too
14:23:28 <nsh> AND THIS!{}!
14:24:34 *** cre8radix is now known as cre8radix|afk
14:25:14 *** danieljohnlewis (n=danieljo@client-82-20-60-145.brnt.adsl.virgin.net) has joined #swhack
14:25:27 <nsh> ETOOMANYNAMES
14:25:36 <nsh> segv
14:27:50 <nsh> Monty, you believe all that tweez about there being nomoreorlessthan five lagrangian points?
14:27:51 <Monty> lol, we were discussing you not me!
14:28:02 <twe> Believe there are five different kinds of environmental conditions necessary for solving a mathematical problem?
14:28:02 <sbp> done! http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/RelExtensions
14:28:13 <sbp> profile is now a valid link type in HTML5
14:28:20 <nsh> .gs libration *
14:28:24 <phenny> libration *: point (7), in (5), crisis (4), ptical libration of (3), feont bplf (3), schomaker (2), scheinbares (2), physical (2), of (2), null (2), lunaire (2), guagadh (2), en (2), and (2), a
14:28:42 <sbp> nsh: OED is slow today
14:28:53 <sbp> okay. do you want the def, quot, or ety?
14:29:07 <nsh> ety (+ quot if no extra effort)
14:29:08 <sbp> nshnshnshnshnshnsh
14:29:10 <sbp> 'k
14:29:16 <sbp> ety: [f. DERANGE v.]
14:29:31 <sbp> 1. (put out of order) 1796 MORSE Amer. Geog. I. 246 Measures..to recover them [commercial affairs] from their deranged situation.
14:29:42 <sbp> 2. (insane) c1790 WILLOCK Voy. 319 When I came to mention..they imagined I was still deranged, as there was no such place, as I described.
14:29:53 <_bjoern> sbp(u there)
14:30:01 <_bjoern> sbp(ur paste 2 slow)
14:30:10 <Jabberwock> I got my first real six string!
14:30:14 <sbp> bwahaha, the derange, v. etymology is great
14:30:15 <sbp> [[[
14:30:15 <sbp> [(18th c.) a. mod.F. déranger, in Cotgr. (1611) desranger ‘to disranke, disarray, disorder’, in OF. desrengier, f. des-, dé-, L. dis- + renc, reng, mod.F. rang RANK, order. Not in Johnson; considered by him as French:{em}
14:30:16 <sbp>  ‘It is not easy to guess how Dr. Warburton missed this opportunity of inserting a French word, by reading,{em}and the wide arch Of derang'd empire fall!{em}Ant. & Cl. I. i, which, if deranged were an English word, would be preferable both to ruined and ranged’. Shaks. 1765 VII. 107.]
14:30:16 <sbp> ]]]
14:30:22 <sbp> _bjoern(y hello)
14:30:34 <Jabberwock> that's funny?
14:30:40 <_bjoern> sbp(slow pastes r 2 CAD)
14:30:43 <sbp> yes?
14:30:51 <sbp> _bjoern(k sry will paste faster)
14:31:12 * nsh giggles
14:31:19 <nsh> thankenstance
14:31:24 <sbp> m'key-dokey
14:32:09 <Jabberwock> Any any of you flash/flex users?
14:33:57 <nsh> the kind of disturbing you can't look away from: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/86/Lunar_libration_with_phase_Oct_2007.gif/598px-Lunar_libration_with_phase_Oct_2007.gif
14:35:44 <_bjoern> 3.2mm rain in the last hour
14:35:54 <sbp> <link rel="test" href="http://example.org/">
14:36:00 <sbp> - the HTML5 validator incorrectly passes this
14:47:08 <xover> I suggest you write an angry letter to the Evening Standard about it.
14:47:32 <sbp> Disgruntled, from Tunbridge Wells?
14:47:43 <nsh> .ety disgruntled
14:47:46 <phenny> Can't find the etymology for "disgruntled". Try http://etymonline.com/?search=disgruntled
14:47:59 *** tav_ (n=tav@82.153.71.193) has joined #swhack
14:47:59 <Monty> Speak of the devil, it's tav_!
14:48:01 <sbp> .ety disgruntle
14:48:03 <phenny> "1682, from dis- 'entirely, very' + obs. gruntle 'to grumble,' frequentative of grunt (q.v.)." - http://etymonline.com/?term=disgruntle
14:48:17 <nsh> .ety dis-
14:48:20 <phenny> "prefix meaning 1. 'lack of, not' (e.g. dishonest); 2. 'do the opposite of' (e.g. disallow); 3. 'apart, away' (e.g. discard), from O.Fr. des-, from L. dis- 'apart,' from PIE *dis- 'apart, asunder' (cf. O.E. te-, O.S. ti-, O.H.G. ze-, Ger. zer-)." - http://etymonline.com/?term=dis-
14:48:20 <sbp> dis- means very in this case?!
14:48:25 <sbp> sheesh
14:48:39 <sbp> so disgruntle is kinda like supergrumble
14:49:00 <nsh> dis- is just slutty and has it any which way til wednesday
14:49:05 <sbp> yup
14:49:12 <sbp> .t
14:49:15 <phenny> Fri Feb 1 16:33:29 GMT 2008
14:49:22 <sbp> oh good, Friday today
14:49:38 *** ndw (n=ndw@66-189-4-239.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com) has joined #swhack
14:50:43 <xover> This is a good thing?
14:51:01 <sbp> it means we can use dis- for the slut that it is until Wednesday
14:51:02 * nsh offers a two crater bounty for anyone who can find more example(s) of dis- being used as intensifying prefix
14:51:22 <sbp> .ety discover
14:51:24 <phenny> "c.1300, from O.Fr. descovrir, from L.L. discooperire, from L. dis- 'opposite of' + cooperire 'to cover up.' Originally with a sense of betrayal or malicious exposure (discoverer originally meant 'informant'), the modern meaning 'to obtain knowledge or sight of what was [...]" - http://etymonline.com/?term=discover
14:51:28 <sbp> rats
14:51:32 <sbp> obvious really
14:52:10 <nsh> .ety distend
14:52:12 <phenny> "c.1400, from L. distendere 'to swell or stretch out, extend,' from dis- 'apart' + tendere 'to stretch' (see tenet)." - http://etymonline.com/?term=distend
14:52:34 <sbp> .ety distant
14:52:36 <phenny> Can't find the etymology for "distant". Try http://etymonline.com/?search=distant
14:52:40 <sbp> .ety distance
14:52:43 <phenny> "c.1290, from O.Fr. destance, from L. distantia 'a standing apart,' from distantem (nom. distans) 'standing apart, separate, distant,' prp. of distare 'stand apart,' from dis- 'apart, off' + stare 'to stand' (see stet)." - http://etymonline.com/?term=distance
14:53:31 <nsh> .ety dissever
14:53:33 <phenny> "c.1250, from Anglo-Fr. deseverer, from O.Fr. dessevrer, from L. disseparare, from dis- + separare (see separate (v.))." - http://etymonline.com/?term=dissever
14:53:43 <nsh> .w dissever
14:53:45 <phenny> dissever v. 1: Separate into parts or portions.
14:53:54 <_bjoern> I am wondering which of http://dict.leo.org/ende?search=lug and http://dict.leo.org/ende?search=%E4rgerlich is funnier.
14:55:58 <bancus> @translate en to fr "and"
14:56:35 <_bjoern> Bad supybot @karma.
14:56:44 <sbp> [[[
14:56:44 <sbp> In the cwm world, thee is for example a property log:semamantics
14:56:44 <sbp> (don't argue about the name of it) which relates
14:56:44 <sbp> an information resource to an n3:Formula.
14:56:48 <sbp> ]]] - timbl, www-tag
14:57:43 <nsh> saywhuh?!
14:58:06 <nsh> .ety disaster
14:58:09 <phenny> "1580, from M.Fr. desastre (1564), from It. disastro 'ill-starred,' from dis- 'away, without' + astro 'star, planet,' from L. astrum, from Gk. astron." - http://etymonline.com/?term=disaster
14:58:28 <sbp> teh luls
14:58:33 * Arnia boings
14:58:34 <sbp> .ety dispensation
14:58:35 <phenny> Arnia: 11:19Z <sbp> tell Arnia http://inamidst.com/whits/2008/02#owldl
14:58:39 <sbp> yo Arnia!
14:58:39 <phenny> Arnia: 11:19Z <sbp> tell Arnia (a followup piece to what I wrote yesterday)
14:58:43 <phenny> Can't find the etymology for "dispensation". Try http://etymonline.com/?search=dispensation
14:58:48 <sbp> .ety dispensate
14:58:50 <bancus> Does anyone know how "et" in French is pronounced?
14:58:50 <phenny> Can't find the etymology for "dispensate". Try http://etymonline.com/?search=dispensate
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14:58:59 <nsh> bancus, ey or ay
14:59:12 <nsh> 'eh?'
14:59:36 <bancus> But not "ee"?
14:59:59 <nsh> not that i'm aware of
15:00:22 <nsh> but i'm no expert on french pronounciation, so salt'n'shake it
15:00:27 <bancus> Yeah.
15:00:37 <bancus> It's from a name of mixed language
15:00:46 <bancus> And I'm trying to figure out how it's written.
15:00:49 <nsh> ah
15:00:57 <bancus> The ending is "von Hapsburg /i/ Montserrat"
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15:01:16 <nsh> .ety discede
15:01:18 <bancus> Where /i/ is the sound I hear, like eee
15:01:18 <phenny> Can't find the etymology for "discede". Try http://etymonline.com/?search=discede
15:01:39 <bancus> I suspect it might be "et" just based on the fact that the following word is french.
15:01:46 <nsh> hrmm
15:01:50 <bancus> Oh, wait.
15:01:50 <Arnia> eeeenterestings
15:01:52 <bancus> It's Spanish.
15:01:56 <sbp> nsh: the OED explains. "5. With verbs having already a sense of division, solution, separation, or undoing, the addition of dis- was naturally intensive"
15:02:00 <bancus> So, y, then.
15:02:18 <nsh> makes sense
15:02:18 <bancus> Or is it.
15:02:27 <nsh> sbp, hmm
15:02:31 <bancus> It's in Spain, but the name is apparently Catalan.
15:02:59 <nsh> .ety discept
15:03:00 <bancus> Anyone know what the word for "and" is in Catalan?
15:03:01 <phenny> Can't find the etymology for "discept". Try http://etymonline.com/?search=discept
15:03:14 <nsh> bancus, catalan is pretty close to spanish, so probably 'y'
15:03:23 <bancus> It has different spelling though.
15:03:27 <sbp> it gives some examples
15:03:28 <sbp> "In the same way, English has several verbs in which dis- adds intensity to words having already a sense of undoing, as in disalter, disaltern, disannul."
15:04:18 <sbp> .gs von Hapsburg * Montserrat
15:04:21 <phenny> von Hapsburg * Montserrat: No results!
15:04:23 <nsh> .ety disannul
15:04:25 <phenny> Can't find the etymology for "disannul". Try http://etymonline.com/?search=disannul
15:04:48 <sbp> I get one result:
15:04:49 <sbp> Kingdom of Esperance
15:04:49 <sbp> Albain-Annecy von Hapsburg y Montserrat.
15:04:49 <nsh> .ety discerp
15:04:51 <phenny> Can't find the etymology for "discerp". Try http://etymonline.com/?search=discerp
15:05:05 <sbp> -> http://www.kingdomofesperance.com/crown.html
15:05:05 <bancus> Heh.
15:05:09 <bancus> In Catalan, it's "i".
15:05:11 <nsh> someone needs to betterify etymonline
15:05:13 <nsh> ah
15:05:24 <nsh> .ety discide
15:05:26 <phenny> Can't find the etymology for "discide". Try http://etymonline.com/?search=discide
15:05:35 <nsh> .ety discind
15:05:37 <phenny> Can't find the etymology for "discind". Try http://etymonline.com/?search=discind
15:06:00 <Arnia> For those who like annotating: http://www.coli.uni-saarland.de/~pado/pub/papers/lrec06_burchardt2.pdf
15:06:14 <nsh> .compare annotating annoting
15:06:17 <phenny> annotating (846,000), annoting (13,800)
15:08:33 <Arnia> GATE (http://www.gate.ac.uk/) is powerful, but by the choirs of Heaven is it ugly
15:09:03 <Arnia> Not just in terms of UI either... the API isn't the nicest thing I've ever seen (it is bad even for a Java system)
15:12:35 <procto> Arnia: anything better than GATE that you know of?
15:12:49 <procto> well, I've been using NLTK for the past couple of weeks
15:12:53 <procto> which has been awesome so far
15:13:17 <Arnia> Yeah... but GATE has ANNIE, which is powerful
15:13:37 <procto> so I've heard, I'll test it out
15:14:09 *** pierpa has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:15:27 * nsh ignores all the made-up acronyms
15:17:55 <Arnia> I'm going to see if I can extract GATE's own component system and turn it into an Eclipse RCP
15:22:00 <procto> I wonder if NLTK can be run under jython
15:22:30 <procto> hmm not on current version
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15:25:22 * nsh bites
15:25:26 <nsh> these things you speak of
15:25:28 <nsh> what are they for?
15:25:33 <nsh> any why are they fail
15:25:38 <Arnia> Corpus linguistics
15:25:39 <nsh> (it's generally safe to assume they are fail)
15:26:05 <nsh> that's not something you do
15:26:57 <procto> yeah, corpus ling, and less ling fields like IE
15:27:06 <nsh> IE?
15:27:07 <procto> they overlap as these types of things tend to do
15:27:11 <procto> Information Extraction
15:27:27 * nsh hrms
15:27:43 <procto> Arnia: I bought an O'Reilly book yesterday called Programming Collective Intelligence, it's quite good
15:27:55 <Arnia> What subjects does it cover?
15:28:21 <procto> a little bit of everything with lots of python code samples. it's essentially about plugging AI type stuff into the web
15:28:54 <Tene> That... sounds fun.
15:29:14 <procto> so, decision trees, SVMs, search
15:29:25 <Tene> Penguins!
15:29:28 <procto> genetic programming, etc. etc.
15:29:28 <procto> yes
15:29:46 <procto> I had a 40% discount, and was browsing a bookstore
15:29:49 <procto> when I came upon it
15:29:52 <procto> was very surprised
15:29:54 <procto> really nice stuff
15:30:09 <procto> most o'reilly books aren't great reads, but this looks like a great reference
15:30:20 <procto> for the algorithms in python
15:30:40 <procto> as well as some applications of them to "the real world"
15:31:02 <sbp> the O'Reilly book that half of swhack contributed to was a good read
15:31:22 <sbp> so go buy it now! Spidering Hacks! available at your local bookshop!
15:31:45 <sbp> written by our very own Morbus Iff
15:32:00 <procto> that one was pretty decent, too
15:32:07 <procto> one of the better X Hacks books
15:32:22 <sbp> I wrote the python hack. deltab wrote the xpath hack
15:32:31 <sbp> Morbus wrote much of everything else
15:32:53 <procto> the usefulness of o'reilly books has decreased for me, because the web is the easiest thing for reference, and they're usually not the best for just reading
15:33:07 <sbp> the perrenial techbook problem
15:33:11 <sbp> doesn't stop them selling though
15:33:12 <procto> but there are some cases where they have information that cannot be found elsewhere
15:33:21 <procto> like Programming Collective Intelligence
15:33:33 <procto> and Spidering Hacks was a really nice collection of techniques all in one place
15:36:43 <nsh> Monty, what's your coordinate system?
15:36:47 <Monty> boys's endurable megalomaniac adores weapons's pubic Gwil?!
15:37:04 * nsh patents endurable megalomania
15:37:10 <nsh> .ety megalomania
15:37:13 <phenny> "1890, from Fr. mégalomanie, formed from Gk. megas (gen. megalou) 'great' (see mega-) + mania 'madness.''The megalomaniac differs from the narcissist by the fact that he wishes to be powerful rather than charming, and seeks to be feared rather than loved." - http://etymonline.com/?term=megalomania
15:44:15 * sbp quotes nsh in http://inamidst.com/whits/2008/02#profile
15:44:28 <sbp> I presume "nsh" is the name you want to be credited under, ô mysterious one?
15:44:37 <nsh> tree puddle monkey
15:45:08 <nsh> which is to say, sure
15:45:11 <sbp> right
15:45:33 * nsh smiles
15:47:06 <sbp> I kinda don't want to find out in a way
15:47:12 <sbp> because I mean, it'll go like this:
15:47:25 <sbp> <sbp> come on nsh, we've known each other all this time. you can tell us your real name now, surely!
15:47:30 <sbp> <nsh> okay fines
15:47:41 <sbp> <nsh> it's... Ivor Smedwick
15:47:44 <sbp> <sbp> okay
15:48:01 <nsh> hehe, sbp
15:48:11 <nsh> you are <spins wheel> 5 chars off
15:48:18 <sbp> ooh
15:48:25 <sbp> getting closer
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15:53:26 <procto> Brandeis was originally going to be designed by a hotshot finnish architect
15:53:29 <procto> but then he died
15:54:02 <procto> instead, the older generation of buildings is in a terrifying mix of red brick and concrete, with the designs mostly made to looks like what's inside
15:54:10 <procto> our theater is modeled on a top hat
15:54:21 <procto> the music building looks like a grand piano
15:54:24 <procto> with 88 windows
15:54:43 <procto> I'm not really sure what the biotech building is supposed to be, but it looks like a prison
15:55:28 <procto> like a prison from the dystopian future
15:56:52 <xover> .weather Ipswich
15:56:57 <phenny> Scattered, 5℃, 997mb, Fresh breeze 21kt (↑) - EGUW 16:50, 1650Z
15:58:39 *** jewel has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
16:00:32 <Arnia> Reminds me of the University of Sussex
16:00:49 <Arnia> DON'T MENTION TEH IPSWICH
16:01:02 <xover> .weather Lowestoft
16:01:07 <phenny> EGYC: no such ICAO code, or no NOAA data
16:01:12 <Arnia> Or Lowestoft for that matter :p
16:01:45 *** jewel (n=jewel@dsl-242-166-234.telkomadsl.co.za) has joined #swhack
16:01:47 <Arnia> In fact, let us pretend East Anglia is a dystopian nightmare of its own
16:01:55 <Arnia> A very flat dystopian nightmare
16:01:57 <procto> all the new buildings are build by some hotshot new architect
16:02:15 <procto> that builds immensly impractical buildings out of glass, steel and copper
16:02:21 <procto> so we have one like that
16:02:47 <Arnia> better than our current architect who seems to like plastic
16:02:50 <procto> and building another
16:03:15 *** kferdous has parted #swhack ()
16:03:46 <xover> .weather Trowbridge
16:03:49 <phenny> Clear ☼, 4℃, 1002mb, Moderate breeze 15kt (↑) - EGDL 16:50, 1650Z
16:04:22 <procto> AOEIU
16:04:49 <sbp> xover: what on earth are you doing? :-)
16:05:01 <xover> Nuffink.
16:05:08 <Arnia> Norfolking
16:06:07 <sbp> why in the name of ethnoballs is he Norfolking?
16:06:26 <xover> .gc "British Hicksville"
16:06:29 <phenny> "British Hicksville": 2
16:07:09 <procto> I am trying so hard to think of something witty to say about trowbridge that involves "dropping trou"
16:11:27 <Arnia> Almighty Ethnoballs!
16:11:58 <Arnia> anyway, on that note I'm off for a walk and a pub
16:12:23 *** Arnia has quit ()
16:13:33 <sbp> c'ya!
16:13:37 <sbp> oh, too late
16:14:22 <xover> A right thorough pubbing?
16:15:37 <sbp> vigorous constitutional, vigorous imbibication
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16:16:12 *** danieljohnlewis (n=danieljo@client-82-20-60-145.brnt.adsl.virgin.net) has joined #swhack
16:16:16 *** danieljohnlewis has quit (Remote closed the connection)
16:16:25 <nsh> IBIBLIOBLIOBLIB!
16:17:23 <nsh> ...
16:18:39 <nsh> .ety splendid
16:18:41 * xover goes to stroke the espresso machine…
16:18:41 <phenny> "1624, probably a shortening of earlier splendidious (1432), from L. splendidus 'magnificent, brilliant,' from splendere 'be bright, shine, gleam, glisten,' from PIE *(s)plend- 'bright' (cf, Lith. splendziu 'I shine,' M.Ir. lainn 'bright')." - http://etymonline.com/?term=splendid
16:18:54 <nsh> SPLENDIDIOUS MONTY!
16:18:57 <Monty> squidthong squidkirtle (0), squidgarter (0), squidchoker (0)
16:19:04 <nsh> right on
16:19:11 <nsh> squidthong!?
16:19:15 <nsh> .gc squidthong
16:19:17 <phenny> squidthong: 1
16:19:22 <nsh> .g squidthong
16:19:24 <phenny> nsh: http://www.bcsportbikes.com/forum/showpost.php?p=810095&postcount=16
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16:24:37 <_bjoern> .ety handicap
16:24:40 <phenny> "c.1653, from hand in cap, a game whereby two bettors would engage a neutral umpire to determine the odds in an unequal contest." - http://etymonline.com/?term=handicap
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16:31:03 <xover> .g "Stephen Hindes"
16:31:06 <phenny> xover: http://www.stevehindesmd.com/
16:31:11 <xover> .gc "Stephen Hindes"
16:31:14 <phenny> "Stephen Hindes": 360
16:31:31 * nsh read that name today..
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16:32:23 <nsh> ah
16:32:29 <nsh> poor fucker
16:32:39 <nsh> Shoulda used firefox(tm)
16:36:44 <xover> .wik Samuel Morton Peto
16:36:46 <phenny> "Sir Samuel Morton Peto, 1st Baronet (August 4, 1809 – November 13, 1889) was an English entrepreneur in the 19th century." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Morton_Peto
16:44:25 *** Arnia (n=jgeldart@0-16-cb-bd-57-e.it.wlan.dur.ac.uk) has joined #swhack
16:49:22 <sbp> .gc splendiferous
16:49:25 <phenny> splendiferous: 443,000
16:59:06 <nsh> .ety arrant
16:59:09 <phenny> "c.1386, variant of errant (q.v.), at first merely derogatory, then (1550) acquiring a meaning 'thoroughgoing, downright.'" - http://etymonline.com/?term=arrant
16:59:40 <_bjoern> .ety errant
16:59:42 <phenny> "1335, from Anglo-Fr. erraunt, from two O.Fr. words that were confused even before they reached Eng.: 1." - http://etymonline.com/?term=errant
17:00:09 <sbp> [[[
17:00:10 <sbp> It caused almost £10,000 of damage, involved mass underage drinking and required 30 police officers, a police helicopter and the police dog squad to break up. But it was still "the best party ever", according to the Australian teenager currently under investigation for throwing a raucous bash when his parents went away on holiday.
17:00:17 <sbp> ]]] - http://jacklynch00.blogspot.com/2008/01/best-party-ever.html
17:00:47 <nsh> legendary
17:01:05 <xover> You forgot the “wait for it” part.
17:02:23 *** pierpa (n=user@host168-199-dynamic.32-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #swhack
17:02:36 <sbp> [[[
17:02:37 <sbp> I boasted when my first scholarly monograph, The Age of Elizabeth in the Age of Johnson, zoomed up to the 1.5 millionth bestseller on Amazon.com, leaving Distributional Ecology and Abundance of Dung and Carrion-Feeding Beetles (Scarabaeidae) in Tropical Rain Forests in Sarawak, Borneo in the dust at a pitiful number 1.596 million.
17:02:42 <sbp> ]]] - http://andromeda.rutgers.edu/~jlynch/
17:06:30 *** leobard has quit ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
17:12:27 <xover> Bwahahaha: http://boingboing.net/images/hotdogsladiesmsf.jpg
17:14:23 <nsh> roflwhah!?
17:14:56 <xover> Context:
17:14:58 <xover> .title http://www.boingboing.net/2008/02/01/microsoyahoo-buyout.html
17:15:01 <phenny> xover: Microsoyahoo? Buyout offer: stock and $44.6 billion... - Boing Boing
17:15:20 <jsled> I still don't get it.
17:15:37 <xover> Not a Blues Brothers fan, then?
17:15:56 <jsled> Oh. Right.
17:16:16 <jsled> Not enough of one; I only (finally) saw it for the first time last year.
17:16:48 <xover> Ah, pity. It tends to lose its charm with age.
17:19:47 * sbp sends a quick note of appreciation to Jack Lynch
17:21:56 *** darobin (n=robinb@m57.net81-66-103.noos.fr) has joined #swhack
17:24:53 <sbp> .compare "whore reason" "damned whore, reason"
17:24:56 <phenny> "whore reason" (895), "damned whore, reason" (161)
17:25:02 <sbp> generally attributed to Martin Luther
17:25:07 <sbp> can anybody confirm that?
17:25:11 *** qopi has quit (Remote closed the connection)
17:25:13 <sbp> can anybody find the original, for major bonus points?
17:26:53 <sbp> ah, got it
17:26:54 <sbp> [[[
17:26:55 <sbp> But since the devil's bride, Reason, that pretty whore, comes in and thinks she's wise, and what she says, what she thinks, is from the Holy Spirit, who can help us, then? Not judges, not doctors, no king or emperor, because [reason] is the Devil's greatest whore. (German: "Vernunft ... ist die höchste Hur, die der Teufel hat.")
17:27:00 <sbp>   * Martin Luther's Last Sermon in Wittenberg ... Second Sunday in Epiphany, 17 January 1546. Dr. Martin Luthers Werke: Kritische Gesamtausgabe. (Weimar: Herman Boehlaus Nachfolger, 1914), Band 51:126, Line 7ff
17:27:03 <sbp>   * Martin Luther (1483-1546). The Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy.
17:27:05 <sbp> ]]] - http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Martin_Luther
17:28:51 <nsh> hehehhe
17:29:05 <nsh> "lunar mare"
17:29:24 <nsh> i'm definitely calling someone that at the very next suitable juncture
17:30:10 <nsh> large featureless hole, erroniously believed to be full of water, indubitably loony and horse-like
17:30:52 <sbp> Molière is a funky looking dude: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Moli%C3%A8re_-_Nicolas_Mignard_(1658).jpg
17:31:25 <sbp> where'd you get lunar mare from?
17:34:59 <sbp> “In 2003 she was controversially chosen as the new Marianne. The town mayors who elect her went for a populist choice, which was at odds with the views of the Parisian intelligentsia.” — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89velyne_Thomas
17:35:07 <sbp> so what was the intelligentsia choice?
17:35:13 <sbp> darobin? anyone?
17:35:44 <nsh> uh, i was trying to find the name of a lunar mare to award you for solving your own problem
17:35:51 <nsh> and then i came across the term lunar mare
17:35:58 <nsh> and chortled with childlike glee
17:36:34 <sbp> hehe
17:36:54 <sbp> you could still award me with such a name, you know
17:37:27 * nsh unravels that ball of thread that is his attention span
17:37:51 <xover> .gc "whore season"
17:37:54 <phenny> "whore season": 637
17:38:07 <sbp> rabbit season!
17:38:10 <sbp> duck season!
17:38:11 <sbp> rabbit season!
17:38:12 <sbp> duck season!
17:38:14 <sbp> rabbit season!
17:38:16 * nsh awards sbp Mare Imbrium including Crater Copernicus
17:40:48 *** Toy (n=bang_toy@125.164.204.35) has joined #swhack
17:40:50 <sbp> thankies
17:40:54 <sbp> Toy: hello
17:40:56 <sbp> welcome to Swahck
17:40:59 <Toy> hello
17:41:03 <sbp> thsi is a pubisght. gah
17:41:06 <sbp> this is a publically logged channel
17:41:19 <nsh> I had a pubisght once
17:41:21 <Toy> boso opo
17:41:30 <nsh> was always flapping about the pantry
17:41:31 <sbp> bossa nova?
17:41:44 <nsh> we sold it to a silver merchant
17:41:45 <Toy> :)
17:41:47 <sbp> oddly enough, I'm just playing Brazil
17:41:57 <_bjoern> Toy the toy toy?
17:42:05 <sbp> toy the twe, toy!
17:42:06 <nsh> twe the toy twe
17:42:12 <twe> Oh twe doing the twe.
17:42:14 <Toy> i'm Indonesi
17:42:16 <Arnia> Brazil the film?
17:42:17 <twe> nsh: Toy the twe, toy!
17:42:17 <Toy> i'm Indonesia
17:42:23 <sbp> Brazil the song!
17:42:27 <Toy> gak ngeti cok
17:42:28 <sbp> by Django Reinhardt
17:42:29 <_bjoern> ur big
17:42:39 <nsh> Toy, nice to meet you. I am england
17:42:40 <sbp> fok nang gai b'san psping fang gai
17:42:41 <Arnia> Braaaazil! When hearts were entertained in June...
17:42:53 * Arnia sings badly out of tune
17:42:57 <sbp> I really suck at generating random Indonesian, sorry
17:43:18 * sbp stores "gak ngeti cok" for future use, though it was probably rude
17:43:32 <Toy> ok
17:43:35 * Arnia generates a random Indonesian for sbp's edification
17:43:47 <sbp> thx
17:43:47 * Toy back
17:43:53 * Toy slipping
17:44:01 <Toy> Good Bye all
17:44:03 <sbp> c'ya!
17:44:08 <sbp> thanks for dropping by
17:44:09 <nsh> TAKE PANCAKES!
17:44:11 <nsh> and care
17:44:48 *** Toy has quit (Client Quit)
17:44:58 <sbp> hehe
17:45:02 *** chris2 has quit ("Leaving")
17:45:24 <sbp> I can't remember why I was thinking about Marianne now. heh
17:45:24 <Arnia> I want pancakes
17:45:33 * Arnia makes a pancake for sbp
17:45:34 <sbp> I read something about her the other day, and I can't remember where
17:45:52 <nsh> marianne is a kind of sweet (and liquor) in finland
17:45:56 <nsh> mint+chocolate
17:46:00 <sbp> oh wait, I bet it was in Phrase and Fable
17:46:16 <sbp> oh right, and I was looking up Milton
17:46:17 <sbp> I remember now
17:46:32 <sbp> so I was gruntling because not all of Milton's works are easily available online
17:46:36 <sbp> and, like, it's Milton mang!
17:46:46 <sbp> so I looked up the one site which did have some works presented
17:47:01 <sbp> and it was some site by a non-profit American organisation for the pursuit of liberty
17:47:14 <sbp> like, this organisation studies liberty, what it means, and aims to make society be as libertous as possible
17:47:20 <sbp> so I thought: great!
17:47:34 <sbp> but you can't use the word "liberty" for that because, you know. it smells of freedom fries
17:47:44 <sbp> so I was thinking, what about liberté?
17:47:53 <sbp> that'd work. but then I remembered what Martin Luther said about Marianne
17:48:03 <sbp> though he didn't really say it about Marianne exactly, but, you know
17:48:14 <sbp> and then nsh distracted me with lunar mares
17:48:29 <nsh> i'm not reading all those lines
17:48:41 <nsh> i'm just going to assume you were being attacked by some kind of pidgeon army
17:48:45 <nsh> and i saved you with my lunar mares
17:48:58 <Arnia> E_MORE_PIDGINS
17:48:59 <sbp> summary: Milton, freedom fries, liberté, Luther, Marianne, mares
17:49:21 <sbp> I learned today that some word is a pidgin word
17:49:25 <sbp> but I forget which one. sorry
17:49:31 <sbp> oh wait, no I don't. kumbaya
17:49:41 <sbp> and actually, it was yesterday. that was in Phrase and Fable too
17:50:00 * nsh woulda thort that one d'be obviyus
17:50:04 <Arnia> University of Nancy?
17:50:09 <nsh> awesome
17:50:11 <sbp> alright, what does kumbaya mean then?
17:50:17 <bancus> Anyone know how to configure OS X so that when I preview a printable document at "Actual Size" it is, in fact, Actual Size.
17:50:20 <bancus> ?
17:50:24 <nsh> i'm going to award someone an honourary degree from the university of nancy
17:50:35 <deltab> on Channel 4 now: prisoners performing "Thriller"
17:50:39 <nsh> sounds like deep voodoo, bancus
17:50:43 <sbp> ooh, a reply from Jack Lynch already
17:50:48 <deltab> and a documentary about it
17:50:54 <nsh> i bet jack lynch owns a shotgun
17:50:56 <sbp> he has absorbed the praise. this is good
17:50:57 *** sdkay (n=sdkay@c-68-37-54-251.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #swhack
17:51:02 <nsh> but has never used it
17:51:09 <Arnia> http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/261723
17:51:36 <Arnia> The University of Nancy actually appears in the paper though; not merely an OCR error
17:51:38 <nsh> this abstract useless without pics
17:51:41 <deltab> "Murderers on the Dance Floor"
17:51:59 <xover> We're saying nice things about stuff now? To their face?
17:52:04 * Arnia sends the Feeling after deltab
17:52:10 * sbp considers getting a Freeview PC card again...
17:52:10 <Arnia> xover: twat
17:52:17 <xover> Thank you.
17:52:28 * nsh blows an anthrax air kiss
17:52:37 <sbp> there you go. Arnia and nsh balance me out when I go all hippie
17:52:40 <xover> “I tried it once, but I didn't inhale.”
17:52:50 <nsh> :-)
17:52:56 * Arnia injects xover with ricin
17:53:02 <sbp> freeee love
17:53:10 <xover> Ba-bom-bom. Thank you. You've been a lovely audience.
17:53:18 <Arnia> I'm feeling all unctuous thanks to bloody Word
17:53:27 <xover> Pages.app!
17:53:33 <sbp> OpenOffice sucks
17:53:47 <sbp> I was going to say use it instead
17:53:48 <Arnia> Word is the best available and it STILL ISN'T GOOD ENOUGH
17:53:50 <Arnia> GAH
17:53:52 <sbp> but then I remembered that it sucks
17:53:57 <nsh> what do you want to do?
17:54:04 <xover> Word's suckage is insidious.
17:54:21 <Arnia> Write a paper in .doc format
17:54:25 <sbp> hmm, Swing Guitars is pretty good
17:54:28 * nsh can't imagine the problem
17:54:33 <nsh> oh, formatting?
17:54:46 <sbp> nsh: academic people are idiotmuffins. sometimes you have to submit things in .doc
17:54:53 * nsh shrugs
17:54:54 <sbp> they specifically ask for .doc, and they are big and powerful journals
17:54:58 <Arnia> Indeed
17:54:59 <nsh> not my job to cater to idiots
17:55:03 <Arnia> and it makes me cry
17:55:04 <xover> It always seem to offer the functionality you need. If only you could tough it out through that last little bit of buggy and poor user interface.
17:55:05 * sbp is in a similar situation, writing a paper for a journal, needing to use .doc format
17:55:27 <Arnia> My supervisor requires .doc too
17:55:35 * nsh frowns markedly
17:55:38 <sbp> ouch
17:55:51 <nsh> tacitly supporting fail is not cool
17:55:57 <xover> So they a) demand .doc, b) insist on a style guide that cannot be implemented in Word.
17:56:02 <sbp> my... whoops, I just remembered I haven't spoken to my supervisor in like a month and a half
17:56:11 * sbp emails him, heh
17:56:12 <Arnia> sbp: um... oops
17:56:14 <sbp> hehe
17:56:20 <xover> Isn't that a good sign?
17:56:55 <Arnia> I still need a codemonkey
17:57:02 * Arnia wonders what fruits attract them
17:57:16 <xover> Hot blondes usually work.
17:57:56 * Arnia doesn't like blondes
17:58:02 <procto> Arnia: I know unis in uk work differently, but you can't get funds for an undergrad?
17:58:10 <procto> often they'll work for free
17:58:10 <xover> For the codemonkeys you nit.
17:58:26 <sdkay> Real programmers set the universal constants at the start such that the universe evolves to contain the disk with the data they want.
17:58:33 <Arnia> xover: hm... could work. although they wouldn't know what to do with her
17:58:35 <sdkay> xkcd ftw
17:58:48 <xover> That's not your problem is it?
17:59:02 <Arnia> procto: it isn't considered very good practice
17:59:13 <Arnia> procto: although I'm trying to ensnare an undergrad atm
17:59:28 <procto> I see
17:59:33 <xover> Or maybe you could try wearing a low-cut blouse?
17:59:51 <Arnia> xover: I don't generally wear blouses. Maybe a mini-skirt though
17:59:53 <sbp> there we go
18:00:16 * Arnia puts a mini-skirt on and dances around the channel
18:00:19 <sbp> hook, bait... what is bait for an undergraduate?
18:00:32 <xover> “It puts the lotion on its skin.”
18:00:34 <sbp> money... marks...
18:06:12 *** glen_quagmire (n=glen_qua@pool-71-247-22-218.nycmny.east.verizon.net) has joined #swhack
18:06:17 <glen_quagmire> .wik calculus
18:06:19 <phenny> "Calculus (Latin, calculus, a small stone used for counting) is a branch of mathematics that includes the study of limits, derivatives, integrals, and infinite series, and constitutes a major part of modern university education." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calculus
18:06:32 <sbp> calculus is hard. go bake cookies
18:09:30 <sbp> why the heck is this off?
18:09:35 <sbp> -> on
18:09:40 <procto> Dana Carvey
18:09:43 <sdkay> Everybody else was doing it!
18:09:47 <sbp> .wik Dana Carvey
18:09:49 <sbp> rings a bell
18:09:49 <phenny> "Dana Thomas Carvey (June 2, 1955) is an American actor and comedian known for his work on Saturday Night Live and the spin-off movie Wayne's World." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dana_Carvey
18:09:53 <sbp> oh yeah!
18:10:12 <procto> .wik Dana
18:10:14 <phenny> "Dana Rosemary Scallon ('Dana'), Catholic singer, pop singer, 1970 Eurovision Song Contest winner" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dana
18:10:16 <Arnia> The idea of Hilary Putnam and Noam Chomsky together... scary
18:10:24 <sdkay> Huh. I've never thought of Dana as a male name...
18:10:36 <Arnia> Can imagine the arguments... 'No universals!' 'Universals!'
18:10:39 <jsled> Dana Carvey. Dana Gould.
18:10:45 <procto> it's legal for them to marry in Massachusetts!
18:10:51 <xover> .wik Gould
18:10:53 <sbp> [[[
18:10:54 <phenny> "Gould (name), a surname" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gould
18:10:55 <procto> they're both here
18:10:56 <sbp> At the January 2, 2007 funeral of Gerald Ford, George H. W. Bush reminisced in his eulogy about how Ford took it in stride when SNL's Chevy Chase made Ford the object of his own imitations. Bush cited this as a valuable lesson in learning to laugh at one's self as a part of public life. "I'd tell you more about that," Bush continued, "but as Dana Carvey would say, [imitating Carvey imitating him] 'Not gonna do it! Wouldn't be prudent!'".
18:11:01 <sbp> ]]]
18:11:03 <sbp> - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dana_Carvey
18:11:10 <procto> Chomsky is Emeritus, but at the rival crosstown school
18:11:20 <procto> is Putnam still teaching at Hahvahd?
18:11:25 <jsled> That's funny.
18:11:29 <sbp> yup
18:11:41 <Arnia> Imagine a threesome between Jackendoff, Putnam and Chomsky
18:11:51 * Arnia watches everyone blanch and panic
18:11:51 <twe> Chomsky is emeritus, but at the beginning and end up a bjoern watch.
18:11:56 <procto> yeah, Jackendoff is now at Tufts
18:12:16 <procto> Arnia: now that I think about it, they are all exactly 2 stops apart on the red line
18:12:30 <procto> from each other
18:12:38 <Arnia> creepy
18:12:44 <procto> spread north to south: jackendoff, putnam, chomsky
18:12:56 <sbp> Chomsky the Southerner
18:13:15 <Arnia> It is like a battle front between relativism and objectivism
18:13:25 <twe> Well, strictly speaking, for new code i'd like is to look it up front?
18:13:42 <procto> the stops are Davis, Harvard, Kendall, if people are interested
18:14:19 <Arnia> I can do a 'favourite academics' tour if I'm in MA at any point
18:14:30 <procto> .wik Red Line (MBTA)
18:14:33 <phenny> "The Red Line is a rapid transit line operated by the MBTA running roughly north-south through Boston, Massachusetts into neighboring communities." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Line_(MBTA)
18:14:37 <sbp> you'd go to MA?
18:14:52 <Arnia> All I'd need is to get Lakoff, Johnson, Turner and Croft into the mix
18:14:56 <procto> have you been here before?
18:14:58 <Arnia> Possibly Bergen and Chang
18:15:03 <xover> .title http://www.boingboing.net/2008/02/01/dean-kamens-prosthet.html
18:15:04 <Arnia> Never been to the US
18:15:06 <phenny> xover: Dean Kamen's prosthetic "Luke" arm - Boing Boing
18:15:15 <procto> I can give ya the tour if you'd like
18:15:25 <procto> I spend most of my time "out" in cambridge
18:15:28 <Arnia> whee :)
18:16:02 <Arnia> possibly if I attend a Boston conference at some point. They seem fairly frequent
18:16:24 <procto> I don't know how it works in the UK, but you can just walk through MIT and poke your head into places
18:16:33 <sbp> yeah, it's like that here
18:16:40 <procto> it's harder to do it at Brandeis, and potentially dangerous in Israel
18:17:07 <procto> MIT has fun spaces and good wifi, so I hang out there regularly
18:17:21 <procto> alright, time to go practice dance
18:17:25 <sbp> DANCE
18:17:27 <sbp> foxtrot?
18:17:29 <procto> ballroom competition tomorrow
18:17:29 <sbp> tango?
18:17:31 <sbp> whiskey?
18:17:33 <procto> swing and chacha
18:17:34 <Arnia> Some parts of Durham are locked off, generally the sensitive labs (expensive equipment, etc) but most not
18:17:36 <sbp> november?
18:17:43 <sbp> papa?
18:18:01 <Arnia> tango whiskey echo
18:18:04 <sbp> yeah. some places here have cool radiation signs and stuff on them
18:18:07 <sbp> "NO THROUGH ZONE"
18:18:16 <sbp> but apart from that, is cool
18:18:25 <sbp> you get to walk past huge tanks of LOX and stuff
18:18:33 <sbp> vapour coming off them. it's great
18:18:39 <Arnia> oh, and the supercomputers like the Cosmos Machine are locked away
18:19:45 * nsh frowns
18:19:56 <nsh> that problem with context, is that it's often disappointing
18:19:57 <nsh> *the
18:20:19 <sbp> frown ye not, for a bitter bear is like a tart in a mayday situation: fraught with berries, but rarely an extravaganza of butter!
18:20:27 <sbp> or something that makes sense
18:20:39 <sbp> yeah, context sux
18:20:47 <nsh> splendidioutzando!
18:21:00 <sbp> though I must admit
18:21:06 <sbp> every time I read Coleridge's famous
18:21:09 <sbp> I go
18:21:10 <sbp> "what"
18:21:19 <sbp> the sacred river Alph?
18:21:29 <sbp> what the heck was that dude *on*?
18:21:32 <sbp> oh wait...
18:21:35 <xover> “Coleridge's”
18:21:36 * nsh chuckles
18:21:40 <xover> “Coleridge's”
18:21:51 <xover> That just doesn't feel right, somehow.
18:21:51 <nsh> i bought a dress from there
18:22:08 <sbp> whyn't?
18:22:18 <nsh> it's the damn ridges
18:22:32 <nsh> the fridge's door
18:22:41 <nsh> you'd say the fridge-door
18:23:01 <xover> Well, or the frigid door, given my sloppy enunciation, but…
18:23:09 * nsh smiles
18:27:20 <sbp> .gc "Coleridge's poem"
18:27:23 <phenny> "Coleridge's poem": 11,600
18:27:24 <sbp> .gc "Coleridge's"
18:27:26 <phenny> "Coleridge's": 384,000
18:27:31 <sbp> .gc "Coleridge's famous poem"
18:27:34 <phenny> "Coleridge's famous poem": 1,020
18:27:49 <sbp> you really don't have to say poem
18:27:54 <sbp> I mean, what else is it going to be?
18:28:56 <sbp> Coleridge's famous bicycle? Coleridge's famous lemon tart? Coleridge's famous expedition to French Guinea? Uncle Coleridge's famous maple syrup pudding? Coleridge's famous pet gerbil whose name is Equinithax?
18:28:58 <deltab> “every time I read that Coleridge is famous, I go "What?"”
18:29:10 <sbp> heh
18:29:22 <sbp> on reflection: hehe
18:29:59 <sbp> I read about two ladies the other day
18:30:03 <sbp> Wikipedia must have the skinny
18:30:13 <deltab> ladles?
18:30:24 <deltab> oh, was still thinking about the maple syrup
18:30:24 <sbp> no, no, they dressed like parsons
18:30:34 <nsh> "the skinny", sbp?
18:30:44 <deltab> skinny ladies?
18:30:55 <xover> .wik Wikipedia Skin
18:30:59 <phenny> "In zootomy and dermatology, skin is the largest organ of the integumentary system made up of multiple layers of epithelial tissues that guard underlying muscles and organs.[1]| Skin pigmentation (see: human skin color or coloring) varies among populations, and skin [...]" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin
18:31:03 <xover> Meh.
18:31:08 <sbp> they look fairly skinny
18:31:09 <xover> .gc "Wikipedia Skin"
18:31:09 <deltab> .wik skinny ladies
18:31:11 <phenny> "Wikipedia Skin": 1,010
18:31:14 <phenny> "James Raymond Creeggan, better known as Jim Creeggan (born February 12, 1970, in Scarborough, Ontario), is the bassist for Canadian band Barenaked Ladies (BNL)." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Creeggan
18:31:21 <sbp> this is good!
18:31:21 <glen_quagmire> .w pragmatic
18:31:21 <sbp> .wik Ladies of Llangollen
18:31:24 <phenny> pragmatic n. 1: An imperial decree that becomes part of the fundamental law of the land
18:31:24 <xover> There must be a Rule 23 for this.
18:31:24 <phenny> "The Ladies of Llangollen were two upper-class Anglo-Irish women whose relationship scandalised and fascinated their contemporaries." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ladies_of_Llangollen
18:31:25 <phenny> pragmatic a. 1: Concerned with practical matters
18:31:28 <phenny> pragmatic a. 2: Of or concerning the theory of pragmatism.
18:31:48 <sbp> Lady Eleanor Butler and the Honourable Miss Sarah Ponsonby
18:31:58 <deltab> .gc fragmatic
18:32:00 <phenny> fragmatic: 10,900
18:32:32 <deltab> ooh, a Lady Butler
18:33:08 *** therethinker has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:33:17 <Arnia> Straw poll time: the Active Web or the Pragmatic Web?
18:33:45 <sbp> Active Web
18:34:41 <sbp> nsh: the skinny is gangster slang for the inside information, isn't it?
18:34:59 <nsh> just checkin' you had the skinny on that, dawg
18:35:19 <sbp> #2635 +(4156)- [X]
18:35:19 <sbp> <asr> 'fo sheezy.
18:35:19 <sbp> <Sabboth> what the fuck does that mean in english? you should understand that having a day job precludes me from 'keeping it real' and as such, I lack a certain familiarity with the language of the 'streets' as it were.
18:35:55 <Arnia> sbp: reasons?
18:36:17 * xover prefers the pragmatic web to the Pragmatic Web…
18:36:24 <xover> …less pretentious.
18:36:46 <sbp> Arnia: less pretentious
18:37:31 <sbp> like Active Web because it's blue and brown
18:37:43 <sbp> whereas Pragmatic Web is red and brown, which is too autumnal
18:37:52 <sbp> it's like going "whatevvah"
18:38:14 <sbp> s/like/I like/
18:38:41 <sbp> Active Web sounds more active
18:38:54 <sbp> it's got punch, it's got pack; it's imbued with vigour
18:38:58 * xover feels fatigued…
18:38:58 * nsh frowns
18:38:59 <nsh> no wait
18:39:01 <nsh> i retract
18:39:08 <nsh> i'm actually sneering with contempt
18:39:17 <sbp> at whizzle-what?
18:39:21 <nsh> please don't sully #swhack with marketing :-/
18:39:26 <nsh> i will have no truck with marketing
18:39:35 <sbp> who's marketing what with the what now?
18:39:48 * nsh smiles
18:39:53 <nsh> and that's how it's going to stay.
18:39:56 <sbp> marketers don't use the word "pack", don't worry
18:40:06 <sbp> they ain't got balls enough to use the word pack
18:40:15 <nsh> tru^dat
18:40:51 * nsh suddenly wants to pick up a hitch-hiker in a personal jet
18:40:55 <nsh> or as that would be a little impractical
18:40:59 <nsh> in a helicopter
18:41:00 <sbp> dem peepz is all "schismatic paradigm wibble my cankersores in the old vestry hall!" and I is liek I ain't takin' dat bro u is gotta retract that you Egg McBluffin'
18:41:13 <nsh> WIN
18:41:33 <nsh> but yeah
18:41:35 <nsh> be careful
18:41:37 <sbp> yeah
18:41:40 <sbp> sorry
18:41:41 *** therethinker (n=therethi@c-24-218-157-101.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #swhack
18:41:44 <nsh> i worry about semweb pimps
18:41:54 <nsh> and all the bollockswank you're in close contact with
18:42:10 <nsh> although w3c seems to have a pretty impregnible ivory tower
18:42:23 <sbp> almost sexual, isn't it?
18:42:29 <nsh> indubtabile
18:42:39 <nsh> in-dub-it-tab-bi-le
18:42:44 <nsh> *ta
18:42:50 <nsh> hrmm
18:42:51 <sbp> well look at it this way:
18:43:00 <sbp> OJ!P(U!P(FIQPE eakPEK fae of]-e ]-o [0īÛ ˙U
18:43:01 <nsh> syllabilising is a difficult Art
18:43:19 <nsh> well, when you put it like that
18:43:25 <sbp> not many people who are in close contact with ivory tower bollockswank will disproof with such a marvellous little display of ascii zen, right?
18:43:40 * nsh nods
18:43:40 <sbp> I mean lookit. that U's got a freaking hat on it
18:43:50 <nsh> hehe
18:43:52 <sbp> it's a to bach (little roof), and I used it, because I can
18:44:04 <sbp> ain't no ivory tower gon' take that away from me. *sniffle*
18:44:11 * nsh smiles
18:44:15 <nsh> right, on that note
18:44:23 <nsh> i'ma go for a trundleswaddle
18:44:29 <sbp> enjoy
18:44:30 <nsh> to the pubtyales
18:44:50 <sbp> think about ancient mariners on the way
18:45:02 <sbp> or Diogenes
18:45:04 <nsh> This I will, what else can I do
18:45:06 <nsh> oh man
18:45:08 <nsh> totally both
18:45:11 <sbp> 'k, rad
18:45:20 <nsh> also Martin Luthor calling everything a whore
18:45:24 <sbp> chuckle
18:45:29 <nsh> Luthor (he's lex's cousin from teh past)
18:45:34 <xover> sbp representin´ it all up in your face?
18:45:39 <sbp> REPRESENT!
18:45:41 <sbp> MASSIV
18:46:03 <xover> I believe there is properly an “F” suffixed to that “word”.
18:46:43 <Arnia> "The first phrases a child learns to utter generally take the form of commands; ‘Up!’, ‘Give!’ or ‘Again!’. As a child’s linguistic ability develops, these commands become more sophisticated, but still the underlying motivation for communication remains; to improve one’s lot by getting someone else to do something."
18:47:23 *** sbp changed the topic to: "Auncient Mariners & Diogenes"
18:47:37 <nsh> you mean "effecting a change in the environment", Arnia
18:47:41 <sbp> The OED Sez: “4 auncien, -ian, 4-5 -yen, 5 -yenne, -ienne, -iand, auntceaunt, 5-6 auncyent(e, awncient, -yent, 5-7 auncient, (6 aunchent), 6- antient, ancient.”
18:48:01 <Arnia> nsh: No :p
18:48:03 <sbp> .gc auncyenne
18:48:06 <phenny> auncyenne: 6
18:48:24 * Arnia may write very formally, but he still has a sense of rhythm
18:48:34 * nsh smiles
18:48:36 <Arnia> Although the rhythm of that is a bit off I agree
18:48:41 <sbp> ooh. Leland:
18:48:41 <sbp> [[[
18:48:42 <sbp> Joannis Lelandi antiquarii De rebvs britannicis collectanea - Google Books Result
18:48:42 <sbp> by John Leland - 1774 - Antiquities
18:48:42 <sbp> Trompetts-and other Inftruments rang to the Auncyenne Mauere, laftyng the faid Dyaner.
18:48:43 <sbp> ]]]
18:48:58 <sbp> trompetts and other inſtruments!
18:49:12 <Arnia> Still, I'm thinking of that as a possibility for the first couple of lines of my thesis
18:49:32 *** tommorris (n=tom@i-83-67-98-32.freedom2surf.net) has joined #swhack
18:49:40 <sbp> mention Diogenes somewhere, if you can
18:49:45 <sbp> we should do that some time
18:49:57 <sbp> when one of us is writing a really long paper, the others should challenge mentions of various things
18:50:01 <Arnia> "These first instructions given by an impatient infant can be seen as primitive requirements; statements of desire as to how the world should be.
18:50:01 <Arnia> "It is the contention of this thesis that software requirements are most naturally treated in the same way as a child’s basic utterances; as cognitive artefacts expressed with the intention of getting another agent to see things the same way as the speaker."
18:50:15 <sbp> see how many fucking crazy things we can work into a paper and get it accepted somewhere
18:50:35 * nsh has industrial sized buckets full of plausible crazy
18:50:56 *** bear is now known as bear_afk
18:50:59 <sbp> èxcellent
18:51:10 <xover> I wonder why no one has exploited the cited-by quasi-SocNet tendencies of the scientific journals yet.
18:51:34 <sbp> "social" and "scientific" don't gel together in the mind very well
18:51:42 <nsh> should 'spect someone has, xover
18:51:43 <sbp> lots of people bickering the fuck at one another
18:51:51 <nsh> but they're still sitting on t'results
18:51:51 <sbp> .ety bicker
18:51:54 <phenny> "1297, 'a skirmish, fight,' bikern, probably from M.Du. bicken 'to slash, stab, attack,' + -er, M.E. frequentative suffix." - http://etymonline.com/?term=bicker
18:51:56 <sbp> heh
18:52:15 <nsh> mmmm
18:52:17 <nsh> frequentative
18:52:34 <nsh> .gs frequentative *
18:52:38 <phenny> frequentative *: verbs (5), verb (5), tense (3), suffix (2), fries friesic (2), fr oe manken (2), celerative (2), aspect (2), adverbially (2), adverbialien (2), adj (2), wiktionary, verbs wiktionar
18:55:25 <sbp> chuckle
18:55:29 <sbp> I'm going through a stack of CDs
18:55:36 <sbp> stuff I've recorded
18:55:45 <sbp> and on one of them I've written, simply: COASTER
18:56:12 *** ndw has quit ("</norm>")
18:57:14 <jsled> mis-burn?
18:57:27 <sbp> yeah
18:59:07 <sbp> on another: "md5sums mismatch! coaster!"
19:00:11 <sbp> bloody 'ell, I have too many discs
19:01:17 <jsled> .title http://seenonslash.com/node/2565
19:01:20 <phenny> jsled: Third Undersea Cable Cut | Seen On Slash
19:01:30 <jsled> [[[
19:01:37 <jsled> by Anonymous Coward
19:01:37 <jsled> Last night while sitting in my chair
19:01:37 <jsled> I pinged a host that wasn't there
19:01:37 <jsled> It wasn't there again today
19:01:37 <jsled> The host resolved to NSA.
19:01:41 <jsled> ]]]
19:03:13 <sbp> argh, where'd I put this fucking thing?
19:06:18 *** shepazu has quit ("Core Breach")
19:11:33 <sbp> wow. the guitar on I Feel Fine is an acoustic?!
19:11:56 <sbp> “While sounding very much like an Electric guitar, John played it on an acoustic (a Gibson model J-160E),[2] employing 1960s sound effect devices to make the acoustic guitar sound more electronic.”
19:26:36 <therethinker> Did we already talk about todays XKCD in here already? (and I missed it)
19:28:16 <jsled> DAMNIT EMACS.
19:29:03 <glen_quagmire> .ipa impetus
19:30:19 <glen_quagmire> .w austerity
19:30:22 <phenny> austerity n. 1: The trait of great self-denial (especially refraining from worldly pleasures).
19:31:17 <therethinker> I'm looking into ed... it seems interesting
19:31:20 <therethinker> Not to program it
19:31:21 <therethinker> *in
19:31:57 <therethinker> nano is too simple and vim is too hard... ed seems like a good media
19:31:58 <sbp> therethinker: several times
19:31:58 <therethinker> *median
19:32:04 *** jewel has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
19:32:17 * therethinker runs to logs
19:32:47 <sbp> darobin and sdkay mentioned it, at least
19:32:57 <therethinker> oh, so no debate...
19:33:35 <sbp> no
19:33:53 <sbp> but, hang on a moment
19:34:09 <sbp> [[[
19:34:10 <sbp> So I suggested to patbam, a long time vi user, that he map Tab to ESC just like it was on the old ADM3A keyboard that Bill Joy actually wrote vi with. This was his response:
19:34:10 <sbp> <patbam> oh i could never do that now
19:34:10 <sbp> <patbam> my central nervous system would revolt
19:34:11 <sbp> <patbam> i'd be like, eating some soup, and my hand would splash lentils in my face and go TAB IS ESCAPE, HUH BITCH?
19:34:17 <sbp> ]]] - http://inamidst.com/whits/2008/01#N232127
19:34:28 <darobin> pay no attention to me, I'm just demonstrating the concept of an IRC bot to Irène
19:34:28 <therethinker> Hah
19:34:38 <sbp> 'k. yo Irène
19:34:39 <darobin> .weather paris
19:34:51 <phenny> Cloudy, 4℃, 1007mb, Gentle breeze 8kt (↑) - LFPO 22:00, 2100Z
19:34:53 <darobin> she says yo sbp!
19:34:57 <therethinker> Hi Irène!
19:35:14 <sdkay> Real programmers change the matrix with their minds in real time.
19:35:14 <darobin> she says /whois therethinker
19:35:24 <sbp> heheh. pwnd
19:35:29 <therethinker> Oh yeah!?
19:35:34 <darobin> phenny: "bonjour, comment ça va?"?
19:35:35 * therethinker sulks
19:35:39 <phenny> darobin: "hello, how is that?" (fr)
19:35:41 <darobin> awwww
19:35:50 <therethinker> Watch this!
19:36:05 <darobin> Monty: say hi to Irène
19:36:07 <Monty> and my ipod for media playback on t'results
19:36:11 <therethinker> .mangle Irène has caused therethinker to be very sad
19:36:34 <phenny> therethinker: "It formed the thin one of eye in more therethinker, which is rather compared heavyheartedly"
19:37:14 <therethinker> ...all your fault
19:37:39 <darobin> twe: you want to say hi too?
19:37:42 <darobin> poor therethinker
19:37:49 <twe> darobin: Say i want you to that?
19:37:51 <therethinker> Maybe dahut can help
19:37:51 <dahut> *yarg*
19:37:56 <sbp> HDADUHT!
19:37:57 <dahut> Yo kids!
19:38:03 <therethinker> dahut, hit on Irène
19:38:03 <dahut> Ir: That dress looks good on you, but it'd look even better on my poodle.
19:38:19 <therethinker> Doesn't like the è
19:38:19 *** pierpa` (n=user@host168-199-dynamic.32-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #swhack
19:38:25 <therethinker> dahut, hit on Irene
19:38:25 <dahut> Irene: Do you live in this bar, or are you just stalking my heart?
19:38:31 <sbp> dahut: YOU'LL LIKE IT OR ELSE
19:38:42 * sbp listens to the Dave Clark Five
19:38:43 <bancus> dahut: Hit on sbp
19:38:53 <bancus> dahut, hit on sbp
19:38:53 <darobin> twe: hit on therethinker
19:38:54 <dahut> sbp: That's quite a firm set of eyebrows you've got there, tosser.
19:39:06 <twe> darobin: But on the stage, from fr. Répertoire, from l.l. Pasta 'paste, pastry cake' (see pasta)." - http://etymonline.com/?search=therethinker.
19:39:07 <therethinker> Methinks that you should use [^ ] rather than [A-Za-z0-9]
19:39:09 <sbp> he sure knows how to woo me
19:39:38 <darobin> Monty: Irène thinks that twe is talking bollocks
19:39:38 <Monty> screw you
19:39:39 <bancus> or [^\s]
19:39:41 <therethinker> What is twe?
19:39:46 <bancus> if \s is the whitespace set
19:39:48 <bancus> maybe it's \w
19:39:49 <twe> Maybe it would ne nice to have that in a twe...
19:39:50 <therethinker> Like... is it like monty?
19:39:52 <Monty> okay, english again today
19:39:55 <twe> Hmm. Apparently it is is if you like twe?
19:40:05 <therethinker> MONTYTWEDAHUT
19:40:06 <dahut> Yo kids!
19:40:08 <Monty> Maybe it was born. I go to the word pack
19:40:43 <darobin> Monty: screw you too bastard!
19:40:44 <Monty> screw you
19:40:48 <therethinker> twe hit on dahut
19:40:48 <dahut> A THUD!
19:40:56 <darobin> dahut: hit on Monty
19:40:56 <dahut> Monty: The word of the day is throat, so let's hug back at my cozy apartment and spread it.
19:40:57 <Monty> nsh: No :p
19:40:59 <Monty> That dress looks good media playback on it at the faid Dyaner.
19:41:01 <bancus> dahut, hit on twe
19:41:02 <dahut> twe: You seem to have lost your nipples. Quick, grab mine.
19:41:08 <bancus> LOL
19:41:11 <bancus> That's awesome.
19:41:17 <therethinker> lmao
19:41:19 <sbp> ahahaha
19:41:24 <twe> therethinker: Hmm..well ive done some work on for the title of laws is in conflict with #3; for example, rfc 2616 requires to assume to know *why* i want revision and that it's most likely language of the egalitarian currency gedankenexperiment is that of a conversation with twe and dahut wouldn't be able to modify their software because of dahut.
19:41:25 <dahut> DAAAAAHUUUT!
19:41:30 <twe> You are on all the twe-twe!
19:41:38 <twe> dahut: I have dv, which i have found a use for my nipples?
19:41:42 <sbp> right I'm off. 'night!
19:41:59 <jsled> Monty's got a use for your nipples, twe.
19:42:01 <darobin> nini
19:42:01 <Monty> stuff I've written, simply: COASTER
19:42:03 <jsled> sbp: 'night.
19:42:08 <twe> That's why i use for my nipples?
19:42:13 <therethinker> Probably
19:42:43 <darobin> twe: you should use Monty's nipples
19:42:45 <Monty> You see, simpletons is masticating?
19:42:51 <twe> darobin: Monty's got a use for my nipples?
19:42:55 <Monty> if (hairs == toast) { tunnels gives birth to punchable bog;}
19:43:02 <therethinker> O_O
19:43:15 *** shepazu (n=schepers@cpe-069-134-123-228.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #swhack
19:43:17 <darobin> twe: oh yeah babyt
19:43:31 <twe> darobin: Yeah yeah i thought it was from yiskah. Makes sense, i don't think you still "have" to sign it, though.
19:44:29 <darobin> twe: oh yes you really "have" to sign it, otherwise Monty isn't happy (with your nipples)
19:44:33 <Monty> trompetts and potentially dangerous in conflict with contempt
19:44:38 <twe> darobin: Thanks i think yes, but it isn't.
19:44:52 *** cr`x (n=zax@204-147-228-116.client.dsl.net) has joined #swhack
19:45:33 <darobin> Irène says good night Monty, twe, dahut, therethinker, and others :)
19:45:33 <dahut> *yarg*
19:45:34 <Monty> darobin and Chang
19:45:42 <twe> And it says on the objectifying gaze of the time of night.
19:47:05 <deltab> twe, Monty: what happens if you combine different lengths of Markvo chain instead of having just one fixed length?
19:47:10 <Monty> my responsibilities at the same way as a valuable lesson in my sloppy enunciation, but???
19:47:15 <twe> deltab: Instead of a string that doesn't seem to tant to combine.
19:47:36 <jsled> Monty: I think that's what he's trying to get at.
19:47:37 <Monty> screws lads!
19:47:46 <jsled> No need to get so defensive, Monty.
19:47:47 <Monty> Hi Ir??ne!
19:48:14 <deltab> Monty, twe: sorry, I mean Markov chains
19:48:18 <Monty> My secret: delicious chuffed playgroup breaks castrating thirty Coca-Cola!!!
19:48:21 <twe> Sorry i am twe.
19:48:58 <deltab> twe: so you should be!
19:49:06 <twe> deltab: Or should you not to be the same document.
19:53:37 <therethinker> gnight
19:54:15 <therethinker> what?
19:54:15 <therethinker> Praytell, is twe a bot?
19:54:15 <therethinker> If they aren't, then I can't be the interrogator for a TT, then ;-)
19:54:21 <twe> A is in the bot.
19:54:46 <therethinker> ...
19:55:12 <therethinker> tew, say something!
19:55:32 *** libby has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
19:55:36 *** pierpa has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:06:06 <Arnia> Woo! http://code.google.com/p/open-nars/
20:06:11 *** darobin has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:16:39 *** pierpa` has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:23:38 <therethinker> WHOO!
20:23:51 <therethinker> Arnia: its Whoo! Woo is a verb meaning... well...
20:23:55 <therethinker> dahut, hit on Arnia
20:23:55 <dahut> Arnia: Mount me if I'm wrong, but don't I know you?
20:24:31 *** shepazu has quit ()
20:24:31 * Arnia mounts dahut
20:24:37 <Arnia> therethinker: woo is fine for me :p
20:24:47 <Arnia> And this is good news (even if it is under GPL ;P)
20:24:59 <therethinker> Heh
20:25:07 * therethinker scours at the fact its Java
20:30:08 *** bear_afk is now known as bear
20:32:14 <therethinker> I wish I knew java...
20:40:19 *** sdkay has quit ()
20:40:29 *** idickinson has quit ("Leaving.")
20:42:42 *** var1 (n=james@82-41-204-122.cable.ubr11.edin.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #swhack
20:42:42 <Monty> welcome, var1
20:43:24 <var1> hello
21:00:51 *** pierpa (n=user@host196-199-dynamic.32-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #swhack
21:16:14 <Arnia> therethinker: Java is evil, but what I'm excited about is that I can finally see how the probabilistic priority queue structure works
21:16:21 <Arnia> Plus I can interface it to prolog
21:16:39 <cr`x> free booze!
21:21:19 <tommorris> urgh. my pc just turned itself off again
21:22:15 * tommorris wonders if I can crash w3.org by submitting ~8000 triples in RDF/XML to the validator to get a PNG view...
21:30:23 <therethinker> Heh
21:30:31 <therethinker> Arnia: have you looked at the code, is it huge?
21:31:03 <therethinker> I can *read* java, but I can't program it, I'm wondering if a Python, or even C, port is feasible
21:32:35 *** cr`x has quit ()
21:35:59 *** sdkay (n=sdkay@c-68-37-54-251.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #swhack
21:44:02 *** libby (n=libby@77-101-209-30.cable.ubr04.azte.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #swhack
21:44:23 <tommorris> Perhaps I'm a heathen or something but Java without NetBeans is painful
21:45:00 <therethinker> Java wowo/ NetBeans is painful
21:45:17 <tommorris> Yeah, even with NetBeans it's painful
21:45:37 <tommorris> Case in point - http://tommorris.org/files/SemanticCampProfileDiscoveryServlet.java.txt
21:46:23 <tommorris> Query selectQuery = QueryFactory.create(selectQueryString); QueryExecution selectQe = QueryExecutionFactory.create(selectQuery, r2); ResultSet selectResults = selectQe.execSelect(); out.append(ResultSetFormatter.asXMLString(selectResults)); selectQe.close();
21:46:27 <tommorris> That in my mind is:
21:46:34 <therethinker> ARGH!
21:46:39 <tommorris> results = data.query(foo)
21:46:51 <therethinker> That's like PHP, except worse...
21:47:06 <therethinker> I *love* django, for this reason
21:47:22 <therethinker> it basically hides the DB... its treated like an object, almost
21:47:44 <tommorris> Have you seen ActiveRDF? RDF ORM for Ruby
21:47:57 <tommorris> It'd be good if we could have something as elegant as active-record for the RDF world
21:48:08 <therethinker> people.objects.filter('name'='Joe')
21:48:54 <therethinker> joe = people.objects.filter('name'='Joe')[0]
21:48:54 <therethinker> joe.age = 54
21:48:54 <therethinker> joe.save()
21:48:59 <tommorris> If rdflib supported the full SPARQL specification, I could pretty much throw my Javabooks out the window
21:49:23 * tommorris loves Python
21:49:31 <therethinker> Hehe
21:49:39 <therethinker> I dislike Ruby... though
21:49:51 <therethinker> Admittedly, its for bad reasons, but Arnia can supply good ones for me :P
21:50:22 <cre8radix|afk> pompom
21:50:39 <tommorris> I love Ruby too
21:50:43 <therethinker> cre8radix|afk: -|afk ftw!
21:50:58 *** cre8radix|afk is now known as cre8radix
21:51:01 <cre8radix> :D
21:51:02 <therethinker> :-)
21:51:03 <tommorris> For me, Ruby replaces Perl while Python replaces Java
21:51:09 <therethinker> Hmm
21:51:15 <therethinker> Sounds about right
21:51:33 <therethinker> Python and Java are used similarly... afaik
21:51:35 <Arnia> therethinker: the code isn't too big. A port should be possible and in fact encouraged
21:51:40 <therethinker> Whoo!
21:51:48 <therethinker> tommorris: want to help?
21:52:12 <tommorris> Hmm. I'd have to look at the Java first before committing to a port. :)
21:52:26 <therethinker> Hehe, I could use a refresher too :P
21:52:47 <therethinker> I don't know if I even have *time* to...
21:54:22 <tommorris> You could do it open source:
21:54:29 <tommorris> 1. Setup SVN repository and advertise.
21:54:30 <tommorris> 2. ???
21:54:34 <tommorris> 3. Completed software project.
21:54:42 <therethinker> Yeah,
21:54:44 <therethinker> Haha, good point :P
21:55:22 <bancus> Ruby could probably replace Java pretty well too.
21:55:44 <therethinker> I don't think so
21:55:57 <tommorris> Indeed it could, if the interpreter was a little beefier
21:56:00 <bancus> Certainly as well as python can.
21:56:06 <therethinker> The reason why I see python replacing Java is because of all the extensions and stuff
21:56:17 <bancus> Ruby actually has private/protected stuff.
21:56:22 <therethinker> It has potential, but its not used enough IMHO
21:56:24 <bancus> Ruby has plenty of extensions too.
21:56:36 <therethinker> I don't think it has *enough* though...
21:56:37 <bancus> In fact, I've often found better quality in the ruby extensions.
21:56:41 <tommorris> I tend to use Ruby more for scripts while Python ends up for actual OO stuff
21:56:45 <bancus> Like the libxml2 bindings.
21:56:50 <bancus> the python bindings are very un-pythonic
21:56:55 <bancus> but the ruby bindings are *nice*
21:57:12 <bancus> tommorris: There's a whole world of Ruby on Rails that is very OO.
21:57:12 * tommorris notes that he must install Ruby libxml2 bindings and stop cursing REXML
21:57:44 <bancus> In fact, other than regexp, I find python better for simple scripts.
21:57:51 <bancus> Ruby is much more rigid in the class stuff.
21:58:04 <bancus> You have to actually declare a member variable before you use it, unles you use OpenStruct or whatever it is
21:58:39 <tommorris> I like Ruby a lot, and I'd like to switch eventually. I want a really good, native RDF library first (and I haven't the time or patience to write one)
21:59:19 <therethinker> Good name for Python NARS
21:59:26 <therethinker> PyNars?
21:59:43 <therethinker> I'm creative...
21:59:48 <tommorris> PyNars, Pinar, Pina... pina colada...
21:59:56 <cre8radix> narson
22:00:00 <therethinker> on?
22:00:05 <tommorris> nars.py
22:00:12 <therethinker> Hehe
22:00:22 <therethinker> I'm thinking PyNars...
22:00:30 <therethinker> PNARS sounds weird
22:00:50 <tommorris> Sounds too much like PNAC, and you don't want conspiracy theorists clogging up your mailing list
22:01:08 * tommorris got a threat of physical violence via e-mail today from a pissed off conspiracy theorist
22:02:01 <tommorris> Apparently, if I don't agree that the world is looming into a Zionist-occupied One World Government, he'll come and "fight me"
22:02:01 <Arnia> I'd prefer Python to Ruby, but a C implementation would be cool
22:02:27 <perigrin> ass kick you into being a true believer
22:03:04 <cre8radix> tommorris: tell him/her to go fuck itself
22:03:16 <tommorris> I sent him back a message telling him his contributions to political science were immense and that I'd be getting in contact with the Oxford scholarships board
22:03:16 <cre8radix> or
22:03:21 * cre8radix will kick it's ass
22:03:38 <tommorris> I compared him in the e-mail with Darwin, Newton and Plato combined.
22:04:02 * cre8radix loves to go down on these people's level
22:04:05 * tommorris hearts the Interwebs
22:04:16 <cre8radix> hrhr
22:04:17 <therethinker> Heh
22:04:41 *** shepazu (n=schepers@12.107.195.105) has joined #swhack
22:04:42 <therethinker> http://code.google.com/p/pynars/ Its so sad :P
22:05:02 * tommorris wishes Google Code would s/Subversion/git
22:05:27 <therethinker> Doesn't it have SVN?
22:05:28 *** shepazu has quit (Client Quit)
22:05:28 <perigrin> git-svn?
22:05:36 <therethinker> Ooh, right
22:06:50 * tommorris checks out OpenNARS to see the extent of the pain that therethinker is about to undergo
22:07:11 <therethinker> Hehe, arnia said its small :P
22:08:55 <therethinker> Hehe, they forgot to replace Foobar with OpenNARS
22:08:58 <tommorris> The checked out directory from SVN is 1.3mb
22:09:01 * therethinker giggles
22:09:15 <therethinker> Yeah but it's a bunch of other crap
22:09:54 <therethinker> the key code is small
22:09:56 <Arnia> The reasoning algorithm itself isn't that big... most of the size is due to other bits and bobs which come for free in languages like Python, Prolog and Haskell
22:10:02 <therethinker> Exactly
22:10:09 <therethinker> AKA Crap
22:10:40 * tommorris admires Google Code - it really is so much less unpleasant than SourceForge
22:11:16 <therethinker> Launchpad is better... I don't know why I choose Google Code...
22:11:48 <Arnia> Launchpad allows one to use bzr too
22:11:50 <Arnia> Which is nice
22:11:57 <therethinker> I like bzr :-)
22:12:23 <tommorris> "!!! INVALID INPUT: I ate a baby. --- invalid term"
22:12:26 <therethinker> Half this code is comments...
22:12:29 <therethinker> Hahaha!
22:13:41 <therethinker> Eugh... I don't want to start this D:
22:14:10 * tommorris suggests that you not bother and simply use Java and/or Jython instead
22:14:19 <therethinker> Jython?!
22:14:41 <therethinker> How dare you!
22:14:43 <tommorris> okay, bad suggestion
22:15:02 <Arnia> Surely having half the code as comments is a good thing? :p
22:15:03 <therethinker> And doesn't that just let you run python in Java?
22:15:11 <therethinker> Yes, its good for 2 reasons
22:15:13 <Arnia> tommorris: I have reasons to not use Java
22:15:19 <Arnia> tommorris: namely, other code
22:15:23 <therethinker> A) Hopefully more explinations
22:15:27 <therethinker> B) Less code
22:15:41 <tommorris> Arnia: I was kidding. Mostly.
22:16:08 *** cre8radix|off (n=cre8radi@p54BE4B7D.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #swhack
22:16:26 <Arnia> But what I really want to see is a plurality of implementations. Not everyone wants or can use Java, and I would love to see NARS expanded beyond its current small audience
22:18:00 <therethinker> hmm?
22:19:04 *** cre8radix|off_ (n=cre8radi@p54BE4B7D.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #swhack
22:19:44 *** cre8radix|off_ is now known as cre8radix|afk
22:19:52 <therethinker> That sounds awesome...
22:20:05 <cre8radix|afk> omg
22:20:14 <therethinker> gmo!
22:20:31 <cre8radix|afk> my my system fuxaround
22:20:36 <cre8radix|afk> ddddd
22:20:45 <cre8radix|afk> 0_0
22:21:18 * Arnia reads more of the open-nars code
22:21:41 * therethinker has a thought
22:22:01 <therethinker> It would be great if some music star pirated their own music, and/or shared it on a P2P network
22:22:08 <therethinker> that'd be a big sticking-it-to-the-man
22:22:14 <therethinker> Radiohead doesn't count...
22:23:27 * cre8radix|afk does that everyday
22:23:29 <cre8radix|afk> :D
22:23:34 * cre8radix|afk is a star
22:24:02 <therethinker> -|afkftwkthnxbai
22:24:18 * cre8radix|afk is plenty of him
22:24:28 <therethinker> Er...
22:24:38 <therethinker> -|afk ftw kthnxbai
22:25:16 <nslater> sbp: ping
22:25:18 *** cre8radix|afk is now known as jamaerah
22:25:22 <therethinker> :D
22:25:33 *** therethinker is now known as cre8radi1
22:25:41 *** cre8radi1 is now known as therethinker
22:26:04 <nslater> phenny: tell sbp there might be an error with http://inamidst.com/sw/notes/arcs
22:26:06 <phenny> nslater: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
22:26:24 <therethinker> nslater: on that page all I get is @@
22:26:30 <nslater> therethinker: likewise
22:26:33 <therethinker> Ooh
22:26:41 *** libby has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
22:26:46 <therethinker> I think they're supposed to be that way
22:27:08 <nslater> it was linked to from regular prose on sbp's website
22:27:13 <therethinker> oh
22:27:15 <nslater> im figuring he wouldnt link humans to that page
22:27:33 * therethinker has never heard of website text referred to as "prose"
22:27:46 <nslater> is it a gramatical error?
22:27:50 <therethinker> Nonono
22:27:52 <tommorris> Well, it's not poetry
22:27:55 <therethinker> Its just interesting... and clevery
22:27:58 <therethinker> *clevar
22:28:06 <nslater> http://www.answers.com/prose&r=67
22:28:09 <therethinker> I'm not disagreeing... its just... I've never heard that
22:28:10 <nslater> Ordinary speech or writing, without metrical structure.
22:28:24 <therethinker> I know what prose is! I'm not saying it isn't... its just
22:28:36 <nslater> no no, i was replying to tommorris
22:28:37 <therethinker> Different
22:29:10 <therethinker> Hmm
22:29:11 <nslater> i never thought prose was a descriptive term for poetry, more just regular writing
22:29:25 <nslater> i may be wrong :)
22:29:40 * therethinker puts "prose" in his nuances-of-meaning-trickery satchel for " To speak or write in a dull, tiresome style."
22:29:49 <nslater> heh
22:30:03 <therethinker> hermartia (however the hell you spell it) is one of my fav's
22:30:04 <tommorris> Exactly - that's the point. Poetry != Prose && Prose != Poetry => if !Poetry, prose
22:30:30 <nslater> .gc hermartia
22:30:32 <phenny> hermartia: 5
22:30:39 <nslater> im guessing thats /not/ how you spell it :)
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22:31:20 <tommorris> If you s/verse/poetry/ in previous discussion, it groks better
22:31:40 <tommorris> Rather s/poetry/verse/
22:31:45 <tommorris> Not enough sleep again
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22:34:29 <therethinker> Yeah
22:34:59 <therethinker> Here, I can explain what exactly I mean by "nuances-of-meaning-trickery" -- my hermartia is that I can't spell
22:35:17 <therethinker> That statement thus implies, by what hermartia is, that I am an Epic Hero
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22:36:31 <therethinker> Heh, apparently all 5 google results are similar people with spelling problems
22:36:36 <nslater> ha
22:37:28 <therethinker> They aren't heros, though
22:37:37 <therethinker> (shut up, heroes)
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23:27:39 <kpreid> .gc marzispam
23:27:41 <phenny> marzispam: 0
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