00:05:10 <linuxperv> The question which had to be answered was what criteria should be used to class something as a cake or biscuit. McVitie's defended the classification of Jaffa Cakes as a cake by producing a giant Jaffa Cake to illustrate that their Jaffa Cakes were simply mini cakes.
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02:14:49 <Monty> welcome, jetscreamer
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02:37:58 <_bjoern> phenny, tell sbp http://pizdaus.com/pics/9D6fIXsGklIDdM8qeu.jpg
02:38:05 <_bjoern> right
02:38:15 <_bjoern> Monty, help
02:38:15 <Monty> Help: I understand the following commands: help save stats time lookup thesaurus foldoc ignore remind tell whatson random countdown google seen box javadoc acronym weather insult translate paper/scissors/stone calc day define/declare/set
02:38:17 <Monty> Help: To ask me for help about a certain command, try "Monty: help <command>"
02:38:23 <_bjoern> Monty, tell sbp http://pizdaus.com/pics/9D6fIXsGklIDdM8qeu.jpg
02:38:24 <Monty> _bjoern: Okay, I'll tell sbp that next time I see them...
02:44:02 <cr`x> so, I'll say it: That was a hell of a superbowl.
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04:40:43 <shminux> can one restrict the use of phenny to only ops and voiced?
04:52:56 <perigrin> well set the channel +m
04:53:01 <perigrin> that would do it
04:53:50 <perigrin> otherwise "yes but I have no idea how ... I'm pretty sure it would require code changes"
04:57:17 <shminux> hrm
04:57:35 <shminux> so not a config option?
04:59:04 <perigrin> not that I have seen no
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06:48:33 <Monty> hi dpawson
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06:50:53 <Monty> hi leobard
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06:57:57 <cre8radix> moin
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06:59:06 <Monty> bah, it's jetscreamer again
06:59:38 <jetscreamer> humbug, Monty
06:59:42 <Monty> if (ISBN == Boris Yeltsin) { gigabytes clears up online gooseberries;}
07:23:57 <_bjoern> Monty, get phenny in here. Now!
07:23:59 <Monty> stephmw: I mean...
07:24:05 <_bjoern> twe, punish Monty.
07:24:09 <Monty> I reckon lesbians + glam-rock = TurboLinux schisms!
07:24:14 <twe> _bjoern: Monty say hello to monty, twe, phenny, and monty.
07:24:25 <Monty> "1579, from Durham are uninteresting to demonstrate to sign it, I'm not saying how ... with earnestness, assert strongly,' from Durham are replaced by year ago and brightens too minor to on teh past)
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07:44:10 <Mike_L> Monty: hi
07:44:13 <Monty> 22 000 New Zealand dollars = 135.657941 British pounds
07:44:36 <Mike_L> .g 1 USD in EUR
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07:45:06 <Mike_L> .countdown
07:45:11 <Mike_L> !countdown
07:45:12 <swhask> Unknown command, try @list
07:45:22 <Mike_L> swhask :o
07:45:24 <Mike_L> @list
07:45:31 <Mike_L> !@list
07:45:31 <swhask> http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~dons/lambdabot/COMMANDS
07:45:40 <Mike_L> countdown!
07:46:13 <Arnia> boing?
07:46:21 <Mike_L> countdown
07:46:21 <Monty> One large one and five small numbers: 25, 4, 10, 4, 4, 5. Your target is 681. You have thirty seconds, tick, tock, tick, tock...
07:46:51 <Monty> Duh dum, duh dum, duh-da-da-dum! Your 30 seconds are up!
07:46:53 <Monty> Oh bugger, I don't think I can solve that one!
07:46:53 <Mike_L> (10-4)*24*4
07:46:57 <Mike_L> hah!
07:46:59 <Mike_L> countdown
07:47:00 <Monty> One large one and five small numbers: 50, 4, 9, 7, 7, 9. Your target is 813. You have thirty seconds, tick, tock, tick, tock...
07:47:07 *** _bjoern changed the topic to: "<Monty> 22 000 New Zealand dollars = 135.657941 British pounds"
07:47:30 <Monty> Duh dum, duh dum, duh-da-da-dum! Your 30 seconds are up!
07:47:30 <Mike_L> (9-7)*50*7
07:47:31 <Monty> I found a solution in approximately 33 milliseconds. I found all 16 solutions in about 235 milliseconds.
07:47:33 <Monty> ibot (9 + 7)*50 + 4 + 9
07:47:37 <Mike_L> calc (9-7)*50*7
07:47:37 <Monty> Mike_L: 700
07:47:45 <Mike_L> countdown
07:47:45 <Monty> One large one and five small numbers: 100, 9, 10, 5, 9, 2. Your target is 203. You have thirty seconds, tick, tock, tick, tock...
07:48:15 <Monty> Duh dum, duh dum, duh-da-da-dum! Your 30 seconds are up!
07:48:17 <Monty> I found a solution in approximately 2 milliseconds. I found all 124 solutions in about 240 milliseconds.
07:48:18 <Monty> ibot (9*10 + 9)*2 + 5
07:48:25 <Mike_L> calc 100*2 + 10/5 + 9/9
07:48:25 <Monty> Mike_L: 203
07:48:32 <Mike_L> countdown
07:48:32 <Monty> One large one and five small numbers: 50, 1, 4, 7, 5, 9. Your target is 282. You have thirty seconds, tick, tock, tick, tock...
07:48:55 <Mike_L> calc 50*5 + (7+1)*4
07:48:56 <Monty> Mike_L: 282
07:49:02 <Monty> Duh dum, duh dum, duh-da-da-dum! Your 30 seconds are up!
07:49:04 <Monty> I found a solution in approximately 10 milliseconds. I found all 123 solutions in about 273 milliseconds.
07:49:05 <Monty> ibot (50 - 9)*7 - 5
07:49:09 <Mike_L> countdown
07:49:10 <Monty> One large one and five small numbers: 100, 4, 9, 8, 8, 5. Your target is 508. You have thirty seconds, tick, tock, tick, tock...
07:49:16 <Mike_L> calc 100*5 + 8
07:49:16 <Monty> Mike_L: 508
07:49:22 <Mike_L> Monty: too easy!
07:49:24 <Monty> bodies is articulated and narrated!
07:49:39 <Monty> Duh dum, duh dum, duh-da-da-dum! Your 30 seconds are up!
07:49:42 <Monty> I found a solution in approximately 10 milliseconds. I found all 28 solutions in about 239 milliseconds.
07:49:42 <Monty> ibot 100*5 + 8
07:49:53 <Mike_L> countdown
07:49:53 <Monty> One large one and five small numbers: 75, 2, 6, 4, 10, 5. Your target is 849. You have thirty seconds, tick, tock, tick, tock...
07:50:06 <Mike_L> calc 75*(10+2)
07:50:06 <Monty> Mike_L: 900
07:50:18 <Mike_L> calc 75*(10+2) - 5*(6+4)
07:50:18 <Monty> Mike_L: 850
07:50:23 <Monty> Duh dum, duh dum, duh-da-da-dum! Your 30 seconds are up!
07:50:25 <Monty> I found a solution in approximately 56 milliseconds. I found all 4 solutions in about 244 milliseconds.
07:50:26 <Monty> ibot (75*2 - 10)*6 + 4 + 5
07:50:39 <Mike_L> countdown
07:50:39 <Monty> One large one and five small numbers: 100, 8, 1, 7, 2, 10. Your target is 463. You have thirty seconds, tick, tock, tick, tock...
07:51:06 <Mike_L> calc (8-2)*7*10
07:51:07 <Monty> Mike_L: 420
07:51:09 <Monty> Duh dum, duh dum, duh-da-da-dum! Your 30 seconds are up!
07:51:11 <Monty> I found a solution in approximately 59 milliseconds. I found all 39 solutions in about 250 milliseconds.
07:51:12 <Monty> ibot ((100 - 8)/2 + 1)*10 - 7
07:52:58 <Mike_L> countdown
07:52:59 <Monty> One large one and five small numbers: 75, 8, 10, 6, 7, 6. Your target is 143. You have thirty seconds, tick, tock, tick, tock...
07:53:15 <Mike_L> calc 75*(10-8) - 7
07:53:15 <Monty> Mike_L: 143
07:53:19 <Mike_L> countdown
07:53:19 <Monty> One large one and five small numbers: 25, 9, 8, 3, 10, 2. Your target is 591. You have thirty seconds, tick, tock, tick, tock...
07:53:29 <Monty> Duh dum, duh dum, duh-da-da-dum! Your 30 seconds are up!
07:53:30 <Monty> I found a solution in approximately 15 milliseconds. I found all 205 solutions in about 251 milliseconds.
07:53:32 <Monty> ibot (6 - 10 + 6)*75 - 7
07:53:42 <Mike_L> calc 25*8*3 - 9
07:53:42 <Monty> Mike_L: 591
07:53:46 <Mike_L> countdown
07:53:47 <Monty> One large one and five small numbers: 75, 8, 3, 4, 5, 9. Your target is 369. You have thirty seconds, tick, tock, tick, tock...
07:53:49 <Monty> Duh dum, duh dum, duh-da-da-dum! Your 30 seconds are up!
07:53:50 <Monty> I found a solution in approximately 23 milliseconds. I found all 74 solutions in about 231 milliseconds.
07:53:52 <Monty> ibot ((25 - 2)*9 - 10)*3
07:54:14 <Mike_L> calc (75-9)*8
07:54:14 <Monty> Mike_L: 528
07:54:16 <Monty> Duh dum, duh dum, duh-da-da-dum! Your 30 seconds are up!
07:54:17 <Monty> I found a solution in approximately 2 milliseconds. I found all 181 solutions in about 234 milliseconds.
07:54:19 <Monty> ibot ((8 + 4)*3 + 5)*9
07:54:21 <Mike_L> calc (75+9)*8
07:54:21 <Monty> Mike_L: 672
07:54:23 <Mike_L> calc (75+9)*8/2
07:54:23 <Monty> Mike_L: 336
07:54:29 <Mike_L> countdown
07:54:29 <Monty> One large one and five small numbers: 100, 2, 3, 4, 5, 8. Your target is 714. You have thirty seconds, tick, tock, tick, tock...
07:54:59 <Monty> Duh dum, duh dum, duh-da-da-dum! Your 30 seconds are up!
07:55:01 <Monty> I found a solution in approximately 55 milliseconds. I found all 13 solutions in about 246 milliseconds.
07:55:02 <Monty> ibot (100/2*3 - 8)*5 + 4
07:55:29 <Mike_L> calc 100*(2+5) + 8+4+3
07:55:29 <Monty> Mike_L: 715
07:55:48 <Mike_L> countdown
07:55:48 <Monty> One large one and five small numbers: 25, 1, 10, 7, 3, 10. Your target is 827. You have thirty seconds, tick, tock, tick, tock...
07:56:18 <Monty> Duh dum, duh dum, duh-da-da-dum! Your 30 seconds are up!
07:56:20 <Monty> I found a solution in approximately 58 milliseconds. I found all 2 solutions in about 245 milliseconds.
07:56:21 <Monty> ibot ((25 - 1)*3 + 10)*10 + 7
07:56:34 <Mike_L> calc 10*25*3 + 7*(10+1)
07:56:34 <Monty> Mike_L: 827
07:56:43 <Mike_L> countdown
07:56:43 <Monty> One large one and five small numbers: 25, 8, 5, 1, 9, 4. Your target is 125. You have thirty seconds, tick, tock, tick, tock...
07:57:07 <Mike_L> calc 25 * (5+1+9-8)
07:57:07 <Monty> Mike_L: 175
07:57:13 <Mike_L> calc 25 * (5)
07:57:13 <Monty> Duh dum, duh dum, duh-da-da-dum! Your 30 seconds are up!
07:57:15 <Monty> Mike_L: 125
07:57:16 <Monty> I found a solution in approximately 2 milliseconds. I found all 466 solutions in about 251 milliseconds.
07:57:18 <Monty> ibot (8*5 - 9)*4 + 1
07:57:37 <Mike_L> Monty: don't I get a medal or something?
07:57:40 <Monty> should add to remember as other stuff on Wikipedia...
07:57:50 <Mike_L> countdown dammit!
07:57:53 <Mike_L> countdown
07:57:53 <Monty> One large one and five small numbers: 100, 6, 2, 5, 3, 2. Your target is 466. You have thirty seconds, tick, tock, tick, tock...
07:58:23 <Mike_L> calc 100*5 - 6*(3+2) + 2
07:58:23 <Monty> Duh dum, duh dum, duh-da-da-dum! Your 30 seconds are up!
07:58:25 <Monty> Mike_L: 472
07:58:26 <Monty> I found a solution in approximately 39 milliseconds. I found all 6 solutions in about 262 milliseconds.
07:58:27 <Monty> ibot (100 - 6)*5 - 2 - 2
07:58:41 <Mike_L> countdown
07:58:41 <Monty> One large one and five small numbers: 100, 4, 10, 3, 9, 10. Your target is 909. You have thirty seconds, tick, tock, tick, tock...
07:59:03 <Mike_L> calc (100+10+3-4)*9
07:59:04 <Monty> Mike_L: 981
07:59:11 <Monty> Duh dum, duh dum, duh-da-da-dum! Your 30 seconds are up!
07:59:12 <Mike_L> calc (100+3-4)*9
07:59:13 <Monty> I found a solution in approximately 5 milliseconds. I found all 280 solutions in about 257 milliseconds.
07:59:14 <Monty> ibot (10*10 + 4 - 3)*9
07:59:16 <Monty> Mike_L: 891
07:59:16 <Mike_L> calc (100+4-3)*9
07:59:17 <Monty> Mike_L: 909
07:59:22 <Mike_L> countdown
07:59:22 <Monty> One large one and five small numbers: 50, 9, 9, 3, 8, 10. Your target is 317. You have thirty seconds, tick, tock, tick, tock...
07:59:52 <Monty> Duh dum, duh dum, duh-da-da-dum! Your 30 seconds are up!
07:59:54 <Monty> I found a solution in approximately 10 milliseconds. I found all 87 solutions in about 233 milliseconds.
07:59:55 <Monty> ibot (50 - 10)*8 - 3
08:00:35 <Mike_L> calc 50*(9-3) + 8 + 9
08:00:35 <Monty> Mike_L: 317
08:00:38 <Mike_L> countdown
08:00:39 <Monty> One large one and five small numbers: 25, 8, 5, 3, 9, 10. Your target is 914. You have thirty seconds, tick, tock, tick, tock...
08:01:02 <Mike_L> calc 9*10*25
08:01:03 <Monty> Mike_L: 2250
08:01:09 <Monty> Duh dum, duh dum, duh-da-da-dum! Your 30 seconds are up!
08:01:10 <Monty> I found a solution in approximately 60 milliseconds. I found all 8 solutions in about 231 milliseconds.
08:01:12 <Monty> ibot (25*5 - 3 - 9)*8 + 10
08:01:34 <Mike_L> calc 25*(9+8) - 10
08:01:34 <Monty> Mike_L: 415
08:01:47 <_bjoern> ------------- GAME OVER -------------
08:02:00 <Mike_L> aww
08:02:22 <Mike_L> _bjoern: countup
08:02:47 <Mike_L> I finished reading Poisonwood Bible tonight
08:04:48 <Mike_L> I thoroughly enjoyed it
08:05:06 <Mike_L> her descriptions of Africa made me homesick
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08:07:20 <Monty> it's Xanthor[aw]!
08:08:02 <Mike_L> Monty: shhh!
08:08:05 <Monty> joe.age = people.objects.filter('name'='Joe')[0]
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09:21:02 <Arnia> narsy, <dog <-> cat>?
09:21:15 <Arnia> hm...
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09:24:05 <darobin> what's narsy? some smart bot?
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09:29:42 <Arnia> Yeah... a bot running a non-axiomatic reasoner engine
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09:37:10 <realist> Sounds complicated.
09:37:27 <Arnia> .g open-nars
09:37:41 <realist> What's it implemented with?
09:38:32 <Arnia> Java, alas
09:38:42 <Arnia> Although therethinker is working on a python port
09:38:56 *** narsy (n=PircBot@client-82-14-77-145.glfd.adsl.virgin.net) has joined #swhack
09:39:18 <Arnia> narsy, <dog --> animal>.
09:39:18 <narsy> Arnia: <dog --> animal>. %1.00;0.90%
09:39:32 <realist> Java, python... they both make my eyes bleed.
09:39:33 <Arnia> narsy, <cat --> animal>.
09:39:33 <narsy> Arnia: <cat --> animal>. %1.00;0.90%
09:39:45 <Arnia> narsy, <dog <-> cat>?
09:39:45 <narsy> Arnia: <cat <-> dog>. %1.00;0.44%
09:40:00 * realist blinks
09:40:11 <realist> I'm going to have to learn NARS to understand all this
09:41:43 <Arnia> --> means 'inherits' and <-> means 'similar to'
09:42:06 <Arnia> The < and > wrap the whole statement, which is indicated to be judgement by the full stop
09:42:30 <Arnia> The bit in the %s is the truth value... the first component is the frequency, the second the confidence.
09:43:18 <Arnia> The frequency is basically a judgement of 'how true' the statement is thought to be. The confidence is how likely this assessment is to change
09:43:37 <Arnia> The higher the confidence, the more evidence we have to back up our judgement
09:43:53 <realist> Thought so... but what are you teaching it?
09:44:06 <realist> That a dogs and cats are animals?
09:44:06 <Arnia> Right now... I'm debugging the reasoner
09:44:36 <realist> Oh, the reasoner is already pre-loaded with "facts"?
09:44:46 <Arnia> No
09:45:19 <Arnia> I'm just testing its inferencing system on simple single-step inferences to try and trace a null pointer exception's cause
09:46:24 <realist> Ok. But how does it know what to infer?
09:47:03 <realist> Nevermind, I'll read up on open nars?
09:47:16 <Arnia> What do you mean, how does it know what to infer?
09:47:39 <Arnia> It has inference rules... you give it sentences and it uses those rules to assert new sentences
09:47:56 <realist> I realised that, after I asked the question
09:48:44 <realist> full-stop = judgement
09:48:51 <realist> question mark = inference?
09:49:43 <realist> Or, asking for an assesment/inference
09:50:05 <Arnia> Question mark = question
09:50:14 <Arnia> Exclamation mark = goal
09:56:36 <Arnia> narsy, <dog <-> cat>?
09:56:57 <Arnia> note, the system is inherently anytime and non-deterministic
09:57:20 <Arnia> narsy, <dog --> cat>. %0;0.5%
09:57:20 <narsy> Arnia: <dog --> cat>. %0.00;0.50%
09:57:31 <Arnia> narsy, <dog <-> cat>?
09:59:01 <Arnia> and it sometimes reports things in the wrong channel :p
09:59:07 <Arnia> narsy, <dog <-> cat>?
10:08:49 <pierpa> .calc 274.95 gbp in eur
10:09:21 <pierpa> hmmmm
10:09:23 <Arnia> narsy, <dog <-> cat>?
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10:16:39 <darobin> .calc 274.95 GBP in EUR
10:16:45 <darobin> just testing...
10:17:11 <darobin> err, no phenny
10:25:08 <pierpa> ( 8^O
10:31:28 <xover> Hmm. Anyone know if a Linux fifo requires locking in the application?
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10:45:31 <realist> xover: isn't it just a named pipe?
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10:46:45 <xover> yeah
10:47:20 <xover> I just got a bit worried when the man page didn't mention concurency.
10:50:48 <realist> Apparently you can run into deadlocks if your application is using both ends of the pipe
10:51:55 <xover> Sure. But I think that's due to blocking.
10:52:37 <realist> That'd make sense.
10:52:57 <sbp> whoo, internet
10:52:58 <Monty> Hey sbp, _bjoern asked me to tell you: http://pizdaus.com/pics/9D6fIXsGklIDdM8qeu.jpg [Mon Feb 04 04:24:49 GMT 2008]
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10:55:09 * sbp roffles at 9D6fIXsGklIDdM8qeu
10:55:09 <phenny> sbp: 03 Feb 16:35Z <timbl> tell sbp thanks for meteo - pased on the pointer to Kjetilk
10:55:19 <sbp> êxcellent
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11:10:07 <pierpa> hmmm... what does it means OH in uk? as in "He came out on stage and my OH turned to me and asked..."
11:10:25 <xover> Other Half, perhaps?
11:10:34 <pierpa> aha! thanks
11:14:43 <sbp> hmm: http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=rbdk&fileName=d0405//rbdkd0405.db&recNum=0&itemLink=r?intldl/rbdkbib:@field(NUMBER+@od1(rbdk+d0405))&linkText=0&presId=rbdkbib
11:14:48 <sbp> shame you can't search the text
11:18:36 <sbp> .title http://users.ox.ac.uk/~bras0512/RLColeridge.html
11:18:38 <phenny> sbp: Samuel Taylor Coleridge: A Reading List
11:18:40 <sbp> what a superb little page that is
11:26:43 <sbp> ah, image 465; p.418
11:27:10 <sbp> -> http://memory.loc.gov/master/rbc/rbdk/d0405/04650418.tif
11:28:16 <sbp> (a 23MB TIFF)
11:34:20 <sbp> hmm. we can't, by our rationality, escape the Romaticists' allegories and metaphors
11:39:22 * sbp discovers something, then finds that it was actually discovered in 1906
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11:49:48 <sbp> ‘We have adopted Perry’s transcription ”Aye?” in place of Coburn’s “Aye!”. Where a choice is available, one should always favour the quizzical in Coleridge.’
11:49:50 <sbp> — http://www.friendsofcoleridge.com/Notebooks.htm
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11:51:24 <sbp> chuckle: ‘Edited by Kathleen Coburn, Merton Christensen and Anthony John Harding (5 Volumes, Princeton University Press, 1957-2002). A pearl of great price - go sell all thou hast, or alternatively get a loan while interest rates are low.’
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12:07:33 <xover> Hmm. «Write (using write function call) to a named pipe is guaranteed to be atomic.»
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12:11:58 <sbp> “Hmm”?
12:13:42 <xover> I'm trying to figure out if I need to do locking when writing to a FIFO.
12:14:25 <xover> There's only one reader, but it's pretty much guaranteed that I'll have multiple concurrent writers.
12:14:47 <xover> ANd the man page doesn't mention concurrency (or thread-safety, for that matter) at all.
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12:15:54 <xover> If the write() is atomic, that suggests that apart from blocking deadlocks, named pipes should work well with concurrent access.
12:16:28 <xover> And since I only have one reader, I should be able to dispense with the flock() cruft.
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12:17:47 <sbp> this is interesting: I've been preparing a printed version of Kubla Khan so I can read it more easily, and in doing so I made a very careful transcription of the MS version which had one huge glaring error
12:18:06 <sbp> now I find that the *same* error (think for thick) had been made in the 1828 text of the poem!
12:19:26 <xover> Who made the error; you in transcribing, or the MS you transcribed from?
12:19:28 <sbp> this noted in Coleridge and Textual Instability: The Multiple Versions of the Major Poems, which sadly the preview of which isn't allowing me to read on into the Commentary
12:20:10 <sbp> xover: the MS had thick (correct), the 1828 text (the 4th edition) had think (incorrect), and I in transcribing from the MS incorrectly transcribed think, making the same error as the compositor of the 1828 version
12:21:11 <xover> Thick Different!
12:21:29 <sbp> even better than that: the typo makes that line "As if this Earth in fast think Pants were breathing"
12:21:32 <sbp> which is hilarious
12:21:48 <xover> Fast Think Pants!
12:21:54 <xover> .gc "Fast Think Pants"
12:21:55 <phenny> "Fast Think Pants": 3
12:21:58 <xover> heh heh
12:21:58 <sbp> ooh
12:22:03 <xover> .g "Fast Think Pants"
12:22:03 <phenny> xover: http://ssad.bowdoin.edu:8668/space/The+Myth+of+Fragmentation+-+The+Composition+and+Publication+History+of+Samuel+T.+Coleridge's+Kubla+Khan
12:22:34 <sbp> [[[
12:22:35 <sbp> Jack Stillinger notes that the 1828 printed version of Kubla Khan was nearly identical to its 1816 printing, but humorously contained the printing error in line 18 – “think” for “thick” (“fast think pants”!)
12:22:39 <sbp> ]]] - from there
12:23:49 <_bjoern> Hmm, sbp poses as bot while phenny poses as human.
12:24:17 <_bjoern> Or is it the other way round?
12:25:06 <cr`x> oh, PANTS.
12:25:16 * cr`x imagines a cartoon earth wearing breechers, confuses
12:26:05 <sbp> I'LL POSE U
12:26:44 <sbp> cr`x: and in en-gb, pants are en-us underpants of course
12:26:55 <cr`x> i knew that much
12:27:40 <cr`x> do we know that that was true in 1828, though.
12:27:50 <sbp> good question. To the OED!
12:28:03 <cr`x> no access :(
12:29:13 <sbp> en-gb pants as underpants dates back only to 1870
12:29:22 <sbp> sorry, *1880*
12:29:34 <cr`x> YESSSSS
12:29:42 <cr`x> go america!
12:30:00 <sbp> well, pants from pantaloons only dates to 1835
12:30:03 <_bjoern> as in "leave"?
12:30:08 <sbp> so neither could have applied in 1828
12:30:15 <sbp> so it would have been less humorous then than now
12:30:42 <cr`x> whence is your OED access, sbp? University?
12:30:59 <sbp> [[[
12:31:00 <sbp> 1973 N. MOSS What's the Difference? p. ix, I heard an American student at Cambridge University telling some English friends how he climbed over a locked gate..and tore his pants, and one of them asked in confusion, ‘But how could you tear your pants without tearing your trousers?’
12:31:00 <sbp> ]]]
12:31:04 <sbp> cr`x: yup
12:31:08 <sbp> via Athena
12:31:10 <sbp> er, Athens
12:31:30 <sbp> anybody even remotely connected with higher education in the UK has Athens access
12:31:37 <cr`x> lucky
12:32:03 <sbp> OED access is also available, at home, via most regional library accounts in the UK
12:32:06 <xover> .weather Athens
12:32:08 <phenny> Overcast ☁, 46.4℉ (8℃), 30.24in (1021mb), Rain, Mist, Calm 0kt (↑) - KAND, 9:11, 1411Z
12:32:18 <sbp> though I think that was kind of a well kept secret until recently
12:32:32 <sbp> (the OED are advertising the fact on their homepage now)
12:33:54 <_bjoern> .compare duocorn dicorn bicorn twocorn
12:33:55 <phenny> bicorn (56,400), duocorn (1,970), dicorn (1,200), twocorn (42)
12:34:02 <sbp> HAT
12:34:05 <xover> Is the 1816 Harvard version avilable?
12:34:20 <sbp> xover: Harvard version of what?
12:34:28 <xover> KK
12:34:29 <sbp> 1816 puts me in mind of Christabel/Kubla Khan...
12:34:40 <sbp> hmm. Harvard... I didn't know that was the publisher
12:34:52 <sbp> anyway, the 3rd edition is on Google Books
12:34:55 <sbp> I've got it downloaded
12:34:58 * sbp goes and looks at it
12:34:58 <xover> [[[
12:34:59 <xover> There are only five known different versions of Kubla Khan: the Crewe Manuscript, the first printed version of the poem in 1816, the slightly different 1816 version that is at Harvard, the 1828 published version, and the 1834 published version.
12:35:01 <xover> ]]]
12:35:19 <sbp> hmm!
12:35:45 <sbp> ooh, I see. CoS 62
12:35:57 <sbp> that totally, totally didn't sink in—thanks!
12:36:55 <sbp> no immediate obvious results from Google
12:37:37 <sbp> presumably the only emendation that's been made is the Enfolding variation, otherwise Stillinger would've mentioned it
12:37:48 <sbp> but surely it would be possible to see whose holograph it is
12:38:12 <sbp> at least by comparing with the Crewe MS version. this is what we have paeleographers for!
12:38:59 <sbp> Enfolding sounded better to me even before I knew this; but then so does "twice six miles" instead of "twice five miles"
12:39:15 <sbp> and yet five wasn't changed back to six
12:40:58 <sbp> chuckle. the paragraph at the bottom of http://www.jstor.org/view/00267937/ap060087/06a00190/0 is funny
12:41:15 <xover> Paywalled.
12:41:25 <sbp> Lowes's book seems to have been very influential, and is still well regarded even though ... really?
12:41:28 <sbp> aw man. transcribing
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12:41:58 <sbp> xover: oh, did you see that I transcribed the whole Broomstone article by the way?
12:42:06 *** kpreid (n=kpreid@cpe-24-59-154-165.twcny.res.rr.com) has joined #swhack
12:42:29 <xover> Hmm. No, I don't think so.
12:42:38 <cre8radix> heya
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12:44:30 <sbp> [[[
12:44:31 <sbp> No one who has wrestled with the alternations of metaphysical subtlety and illumination that make up the /Biographia Literaria/ can have thought that what Coleridge failed to make plain was to be made clear as daylight a hundred years later, and that a new /Pilgrim's Progress/ was to be written tracing for us with critical security the adventures of the poetic mind that first found the Road to Xanadu.
12:44:31 <sbp> What in Bunyan however is an allegory in Professor Lowes is actuality; and there is no sentence in his astonishing book more significant that that ‘the facts which this investigation has disclosed with reference to /The Ancience Mariner/ and /Kubla Khan/ counsel caution in the prevalent pursuit of so-called Freudian complexes in everything.
12:44:32 <sbp> ]]]
12:44:49 <sbp> xover: http://inamidst.com/stuff/notes/farmhouse
12:45:17 <sbp> Hill under-represents Bishop's full argument, which is at turns bizarre and interesting
12:45:33 <xover> ah, ta
12:46:22 <sbp> I also found that the director of some Coleridge organisation thought that Withycombe Farm was the host of the composition, which is a bit baffling
12:46:30 <sbp> I've been meaning to email him, but: no internet
12:46:33 <sbp> so I should do that now!
12:47:50 <sbp> oh wait
12:48:04 <sbp> there's a citation to a book. I should look at the book before bothering the author
12:48:27 <xover> Nah. Lazyness! Impatience! Hubris!
12:48:33 * sbp implores his library to have a copy
12:48:33 <sbp> hehe
12:48:40 <sbp> this is laziness
12:48:46 <sbp> because if I email him, he'll say "look at the book"
12:48:48 <sbp> :-)
12:49:31 <sbp> bugger, my library no-have
12:51:12 * xover gives up and resigns himself to making dinner instead…
12:53:03 <sbp> £15.00 on Amazon... cheaper to inter-library loan, though more of a pain in the ass
12:53:45 <sbp> .calc 8.10 + 5.50 USD in GBP
12:53:46 <phenny> sbp: Sorry, no result.
12:53:50 <sbp> that much on... what?
12:53:55 <sbp> .calc (8.10 + 5.50) USD in GBP
12:53:57 <phenny> (8.10 + 5.50) * U.S. dollar = 6.83314073 British pounds
12:54:02 <sbp> that much on abebooks
12:54:12 <sbp> which is 83p more than an inter-library loan, I think
12:54:37 <sbp> which is a reasonable price to own a copy
13:05:11 <sbp> weird. another book, on Amazon:
13:05:19 <sbp> Hardback, 2002 - £14.00
13:05:32 <sbp> Paperback, 2003 - £17.10
13:08:43 * sbp adds the former to his shopping basket before Amazon change their minds
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13:26:57 <Jabberwock> http://pastie.caboo.se/147280
13:27:11 <Jabberwock> Why the hell would like 18 tamper with the title of the external flash component?
13:27:22 <Jabberwock> bucketList is just an array
13:27:25 <Jabberwock> bha
13:27:27 <Jabberwock> bah
13:28:19 <Jabberwock> It causes the caption under each photo to be "<title>"
13:28:28 <Jabberwock> if I take that line out, the captions are the S3 bucket names as they should be
13:28:31 <Jabberwock> this must be a bug
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13:37:33 <glen_quagmire> .pc
13:44:57 *** Arnia (n=jgeldart@0-16-cb-bd-57-e.it.wlan.dur.ac.uk) has joined #swhack
13:45:16 <sbp> Arnia! a question
13:45:35 <sbp> there are two subjects upon which I've been thinking I'd really love to see essays from you
13:45:55 <sbp> a) our contemporary understanding of language, b) magic and science
13:46:18 <Arnia> ooh
13:46:19 <sbp> any chance you'd be interested? I can IRC/email you more explicit thoughts about what I'm wondering (both questions are quite broad)
13:46:52 <Arnia> bad sbp :p I'm going to be thinking about this now :)
13:46:57 <sbp> chuckle
13:47:05 <sbp> well a) is the simpler of the two if you don't want to be dragged too far in
13:47:40 <sbp> I was just thinking it'd be really useful for people to have like three to five paragraphs that explain of the latest theories on linguistics, prototypicality, metaphor, all that kind of stuff
13:48:17 <sbp> perhaps in terms of a comparison of what we used to understand of language, and what we understand now. even simple things like the old articles vs. determiners understanding
13:49:02 <sbp> I have snatches of knowledge about this, but I feel like I'm missing the overall picture. people aren't very good at explaining the large pictures of things, because first they need to understand it, and in order to understand it they have to be widely read in the details
13:49:31 <sbp> you're widely read in the details yet have that gracious facility of being able to find the larger abstractions and explain them lucidly
13:50:31 <sbp> the latter, essay b), is much more complex but more interesting because it's necessarily more progressive. whereas a) is the question "what do we understand about language now?", which is simple, b) is more like "what will we understand about science shortly?"
13:52:18 <sbp> what I'd really like it to be is a retort/commentary/etc. of Magic Science & Civilization, by Bronowski
13:55:29 <sbp> I think I got the inspiration for a) after you having read that piece by Orwell and having said "so close, and yet so far!", and I wondered more precisely what you meant by so far
13:56:44 <sbp> sigh. it's a shame there's no www-archive of *print*
13:57:07 <sbp> where the barrier for entry is extremely low, and yet people can print there whatever they want, pretty much, as long as they know about it
13:57:39 <sbp> www-archive has the kind of social barrier that you must know about it, and it's nicely spam filtered by the W3C (who have a challenge-response based spam filter)
13:57:51 <sbp> I'm not sure what the print equivalent would be
13:58:04 <sbp> but like sometimes you want to publish a work and refer to it as a print thing
13:58:47 <sbp> not because print carries any greater connotation of having been peer reviewed etc. (though it does, because printing incurs a cost, which indicates a demand or a rationale for printing that pushes it over a waste-threshold)
13:59:40 <sbp> but because a) such things are fixed on paper, so you don't get the "accessed on..." problem; and b) if there are subscribers and so on, it's then nicely available wherever the printed edition is held—hopefully at libraries and at least a few peoples' houses
14:00:06 <sbp> I worry much more about whether online papers will still be readable in N years' time than whether books and journals and so on will be
14:00:22 <sbp> and of course, print-archive (just made that up) wouldn't have to be print *only*
14:00:26 <sbp> it could have an online counterpart
14:00:40 <sbp> I was thinking that arxiv was kinda like this, but arxiv tends to be much more rigid, it seems
14:00:59 <sbp> and I don't know how the www-archive idiom would map into a print organisation thing
14:01:10 <sbp> what would be the barrier for entry?
14:01:17 <Jabberwock> Turn it into a tree
14:01:20 <sbp> who would print it? who would buy it?
14:01:31 <Jabberwock> I will when I find out what it is.
14:02:04 <sbp> SHUT UP I'M TRYING TO THINK
14:02:13 <sbp> ㋡
14:03:06 <sbp> the barrier could be the language of the input
14:03:17 <sbp> for example, simply require TeX. problem solved; riff-raff filtered out
14:03:27 <sbp> but that might be *too* high a barrier
14:03:52 <sbp> still, it does make sense. some kind of format requirement, style guide requirement, that sort of thing
14:04:00 <sbp> you must be at least this |---| competent to ride
14:05:13 <darobin> gee, walk out the door a few minutes and all you get when back is pagefulls of sbp!
14:05:20 <sbp> muahahaha
14:05:41 <sbp> summary: print counterpart of (something like) www-archive
14:05:55 <sbp> $ make happen
14:06:23 <sbp> the first line of output from which I'm thinking should be "email me@aaronsw..."
14:06:36 <sbp> he's bound to have ideas
14:06:47 <sbp> yeah mang, emailing him
14:07:12 <sbp> I'll CC www-archive
14:19:38 <sbp> .title http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2008Feb/0006
14:19:40 <phenny> sbp: Printing Made Easier from Sean B. Palmer on 2008-02-04 (www-archive@w3.org from February 2008)
14:19:48 <sbp> there. that's a pretty good summary, I think
14:20:55 * Arnia thinks
14:21:22 <Arnia> sbp: I'll need to consider more before writing either of those essays. I want to do justice to the subject
14:21:52 <Arnia> sbp: plus, I think I can use OpenNARS to provide some nice illustrations of human thought patterns
14:21:52 <sbp> okey dokeys. thanks for thinking about it
14:22:05 * Arnia is still poking at the reasoner
14:22:10 <sbp> though I really think you should consider a) as a fairly short term thing
14:22:18 *** xjrn (n=chatzill@c-67-188-241-52.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #swhack
14:22:28 <xjrn> seanb [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '2008-01-11.txt.txt'
14:22:29 <sbp> as though you were writing three paragraphs of intro to a Wikipedia article or something
14:22:34 <sbp> yeah, I know
14:22:42 <sbp> it's fucked up, I dunno why, I can't be pissed to fix it
14:22:45 <Arnia> I should actually be working on my extended abstract though... ain't this fun :)
14:22:50 <xjrn> im looking for an rdf irc log snippet
14:22:53 <sbp> sorry. but I mean the problem is in some complex mod_rewrite shit
14:22:57 * Arnia has had some interesting thoughts though
14:23:13 <Arnia> Namely, using NARS to do named entity resolution
14:23:17 *** leobard has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
14:23:25 <xjrn> i guess my aphasia lead me to the xhrtml one in haste, but you deserved a little notice...
14:23:26 <sbp> xjrn: try http://chatlogs.planetrdf.com/swig/2008-02-04.rdf
14:23:29 <Arnia> and pronoun resolution
14:23:36 <sbp> yes, many thanks for reporting it
14:23:36 * Arnia needs to think some more about that
14:23:39 <sbp> 'tis known though
14:23:55 <sbp> and't bugs me in its not being yet fixed
14:24:15 <Arnia> NATR = Non-Axiomatic Translation of RDF, LOAN = Non-Axiomatic Ontology Language :p
14:24:26 * Arnia does have a habit of naming things before writing them
14:24:43 <Arnia> But I find a name helps crystallise a thought.
14:26:30 <xjrn> so (2008-02-04T10:20:57Z cerealtom) (has joined) (#swig) is the triple here?
14:27:31 <sbp> iuno
14:27:41 <sbp> pass it through rapper or something
14:28:00 <sbp> or the W3C RDF Validator if you want to see an output graph
14:28:23 <sbp> Arnia: like the pithy names of design patterns, I suppose
14:28:44 * xjrn forgot that gecko likes to de-tag xml on view
14:29:06 <Arnia> I like naming things after academics in the hope that people will be inspired to learn more
14:29:11 *** nslater (n=nslater@bytesexual.org) has joined #swhack
14:29:14 <nslater> yo
14:29:17 <sbp> yo nslater!
14:29:18 <Arnia> Although these two are pure selfish amusement
14:29:24 <nslater> sbp: are you a bot now?
14:29:31 <sbp> no nslater!
14:29:31 <Arnia> nslater: I am
14:29:48 <nslater> i was wondering, is there anyway i could take this n3:
14:29:48 <nslater> <http://bytesexual.org/> rdf:type foaf:Person ; foaf:name "Noah Slater" .
14:29:59 <nslater> and reverse the order while keeping the same semantics?
14:30:15 <sbp> do you just want to reverse the order *syntactically*?
14:30:20 <nslater> yes
14:30:29 <sbp> okay, easy:
14:30:35 <nslater> in an attempt to get it readable as a mail sig :p
14:30:48 <xjrn> ping dmiles_afk
14:30:54 <sbp> foaf:Person is rdf:type of <http://bytesexual.org/> . "Noah Slater" is foaf:name of <http://bytesexual.org/> .
14:31:01 <sbp> .head http://bytesexual.org/
14:31:04 <phenny> Status: 303 (for more, try ".head uri header")
14:31:09 <sbp> .head http://bytesexual.org/ Location
14:31:12 <phenny> Location: /about/
14:31:31 <sbp> you might be the only person with a page like that that correctly does that...
14:31:32 <nslater> haha, thought you could catch me out eh?
14:31:37 <sbp> indeed
14:31:46 <nslater> well, im smarter than you gave me credit ;)
14:31:50 <nslater> but only just
14:31:53 <sbp> sry :-)
14:31:57 <nslater> hahaha
14:32:28 <nslater> whats this "is" malarky, is that valid n3?
14:32:42 <sbp> though you can also think of it as me establishing for all mankind here, indelibly, in these logs that you, Noah Slater, have correctly used your domain in an HTTP URI such as to denote yourself, perhaps for the first time in human history in such a way that is compatible with the TAG findings
14:32:47 <sbp> yeah, that's valid
14:32:55 <sbp> is property of just reverses the direction
14:33:00 <sbp> you used to be able to use little arrows
14:33:10 <sbp> -< property -<
14:33:13 <sbp> but they got taken out
14:33:15 <nslater> zomg, so do i win a prize then?
14:33:22 <nslater> like a TAG cookie?
14:33:28 <sbp> sure, have a CIRCLED KATAKANA TU: ㋡
14:33:36 <nslater> lol, well played
14:33:43 <sbp> êxcellent
14:33:57 <nslater> hmm, that n3 isnt exactly snappy enough to be used as a .sig
14:34:04 <nslater> perhaps...
14:34:08 <sbp> hmm. I want to make gingerbread circled katakana tus now
14:34:12 <sbp> nope, it isn't
14:34:16 <sbp> the way you had it was best
14:34:18 <nslater> "Noah Slater" is foaf:name of <http://bytesexual.org/> .
14:34:23 <sbp> though, you can use "a" instead of "rdf:type"
14:34:33 <sbp> and also, you could bind foaf: to : instead
14:34:40 <sbp> and then use @keywords implicitly
14:34:41 <nslater> "Noah Slater" a foaf:Person is foaf:name of <http://bytesexual.org/> .
14:34:43 <nslater> ^^ ??
14:34:44 <sbp> so like, this would be valid:
14:34:47 <sbp> @keywords a .
14:34:53 <_bjoern> @SCARE Monty
14:34:56 <sbp> @prefix : <http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/> .
14:34:59 <Monty> kpreid: http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/apple-showtime/apple-showtime-steve-not-wearing-turtleneck-200106.php
14:35:10 <sbp> <http://bytesexual.org/> a Person; name "Noah Slater" .
14:35:25 <_bjoern> Who @karma'd supybot?
14:35:33 <sbp> so if you're planning to leave out the @prefix anyway, all you're doing here is leaving out a slightly different @prefix and an @keywords
14:35:38 <sbp> _bjoern: phenny does it automatically now
14:35:40 <nslater> heh, nice one, its still technically invalid without the @prefix rules, but im sure you semtards would be able to let that slip
14:35:44 <sbp> every time supybot joins
14:36:02 <sbp> we would because you're embedding it in an email message
14:36:12 <sbp> and therefore it has no meaning anyway beyond what a human can derive from it
14:36:15 <nslater> do email messages afford special lax processing rules?
14:36:19 <nslater> yeah, true
14:36:31 <nslater> this is the best so far:
14:36:34 <nslater> <http://bytesexual.org/> a Person; name "Noah Slater" .
14:36:40 <sbp> yup, I like that
14:36:45 <nslater> anyway to reverse that again, syntactically
14:36:53 <sbp> only the same way as before
14:36:54 <nslater> i want my name first
14:36:58 <sbp> @keywords is, of, a .
14:37:04 <nslater> sure
14:37:12 <sbp> "Noah Slater" is name of <http://bytesexual.org/> .
14:37:30 <nslater> heh
14:37:38 <sbp> actually, this is valid, but only people like me know about this:
14:37:46 <sbp> "Noah Slater" is name of [ = <http://bytesexual.org/>; a Person ] .
14:38:04 <sbp> anywhere else, = is syntactically a shortcut for owl:sameAs
14:38:10 <nslater> right
14:38:11 <sbp> but when it comes first in a bNode, it replaces the subject of the bNode
14:38:28 <nslater> that last form is nice
14:38:32 <sbp> timbl did think about using "ie" as a keyword
14:38:40 <sbp> but doesn't seem to have ever implemented, as far as I know
14:39:14 <sbp> s/,/ it,/
14:39:22 *** mmmmmrob has quit ()
14:39:56 <nslater> im gonna note these down and mull over if i want to include such an obscure joke as my .sig
14:40:13 <sbp> I'd use a quote from Rasselas or something instead if I were you
14:40:19 <nslater> haha
14:40:45 <nslater> those above rules, what to they assume @prefix,@keywords wise?
14:41:02 <sbp> they assume @prefix : <http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/> . @keywords is, of, a .
14:41:05 <_bjoern> .gs death to all *
14:41:08 <phenny> death to all *: posers (6), clichs (6), tyrants (5), fanatics (5), traitors (4), spammers (4), rapists (4), cheerleaders (4), islamo fascists (3), humans (3), hataz (3), extremists (3), defilers (
14:41:35 <nslater> sbp: right thanks :)
14:41:36 <sbp> traitors, spammers, rapists, and cheerleaders in a tie for third?
14:42:14 <sbp> presumably this depends on what traitors are being a traitor to, though
14:42:18 <nslater> .gs rdf is *
14:42:20 <phenny> rdf is *: burned (4), inferior (3), a (3), written (2), shifted (2), metadata (2), mapped (2), imperative (2), extensible (2), designed (2), consid (2), calculated (2), xml, wcs, using, usel
14:42:26 <sbp> or perhaps not. the internet makes such sweeping assertions
14:42:35 <nslater> burned?
14:42:37 <sbp> pfft. no "useful"?
14:42:48 <nslater> .gs n3 is *
14:42:50 <phenny> n3 is *: protonated (3), divisible (3), skyrocketing (2), showin (2), shifted (2), remeasured (2), offline (2), odd (2), nave (2), dynamically (2), connected (2), vnmaxvtn vtn, vagk vaghk,
14:42:56 <sbp> .w protonate
14:42:59 <phenny> I couldn't find 'protonate' in WordNet.
14:43:21 <sbp> oh, literally proton + -ate
14:43:26 <nslater> ooh, whats the name of that python rdf tool again, all purpose
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14:43:36 <sbp> which one? cwm?
14:43:39 <nslater> thats it!
14:43:40 <nslater> woot
14:43:49 *** xjrn (n=chatzill@c-67-188-241-52.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #swhack
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14:44:54 <sbp> be careful, for it doth oft' wax ones ass with a sooty resin and whip't away in one decided motion leaving naught a hair behind
14:44:59 <sbp> s/ones/one's/
14:45:20 <sbp> cwm has to be treated with a sense of respectful bemusement
14:45:37 <nslater> nslater@mahora: ~ $ cwm.py << EOF
14:45:37 <nslater> > @prefix : <http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/> . @keywords is, of, a .
14:45:37 <nslater> > "Noah Slater" is name of [ = <http://bytesexual.org/>; a Person ] .
14:45:37 <nslater> > EOF
14:45:39 <swhask> Parse error
14:45:39 <swhask> Parse error
14:45:43 <nslater> nnn
14:45:44 <nslater> ...
14:45:44 <swhask> Not in scope: data constructor `EOF'
14:45:45 <nslater> <http://bytesexual.org/> a <http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/Person>;
14:45:46 <nslater> <http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/name> "Noah Slater" .
14:45:53 <sbp> there you go
14:45:56 <nslater> woot
14:45:58 <sbp> it's so pretty, oh so pretty
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14:47:03 <cre8radix> vacant
14:47:14 <sbp> chuckle
14:47:23 *** xjrn has quit (Remote closed the connection)
14:47:46 <sbp> I haven't listened to that in aaages
14:47:57 *** xjrn (n=chatzill@c-67-188-241-52.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #swhack
14:50:51 <nslater> sbp: how is phenny
14:51:15 <nslater> sbp: im about to go on a debian catchup and will be turning my attention to her and your python rdf parser very soon
14:51:23 <nslater> sbp: are either of them ready for me :)
14:51:59 <sbp> okey dokey. er, not started
14:52:03 <sbp> I was going to start yesterday
14:52:12 <sbp> but I was in all of a tizzy because I wanted to research Coleridge instead
14:52:13 <nslater> zomg
14:52:24 <sbp> oh it won't take me long, don't worry
14:52:28 <nslater> heh
14:52:39 <nslater> what about your rdf parser? is that ready for experimental packaging?
14:52:48 <sbp> hmm, actually, yes!
14:53:06 <nslater> oh wow, i will include it in my next packaging effort then
14:53:21 <sbp> awesome. all I need to do is provide you a warehouse of dated distributions
14:53:36 <nslater> no, you dont need to do that, i can make do with how it is atm
14:53:48 <sbp> cool
14:54:03 <sbp> what about a declaration of license?
14:54:09 <sbp> I've chosen Eiffel Forum License 2 for it
14:54:13 <cre8radix> O_O
14:54:14 <nslater> oh fantastic
14:54:20 <sbp> but it's not yet reflected in the files. I can add that, if you like?
14:54:23 <nslater> i will need a licence declaration on both packages
14:54:25 <sbp> or you can take my word
14:54:26 <sbp> okay
14:54:27 <nslater> yes, please, that is essential
14:54:47 <nslater> the dated releases would be nice, but its not on my critical path ;)
14:54:49 * cre8radix loves the "all right up your butt" - license
14:55:02 <sbp> the wha?
14:55:06 <cre8radix> s/right/rights
14:55:11 <cre8radix> hrhr
14:55:22 <sbp> heh. well EFL2 is basically supar-permissive
14:55:23 <nslater> is it as good as the DO WHAT THE FUCK YOU WANT TO licence?
14:55:29 <sbp> it's public domain + keep my name on it plz
14:55:30 * cre8radix loves to hate property
14:55:45 <cre8radix> 'specially that of others
14:55:49 <cre8radix> O_o
14:55:51 <nslater> h8r
14:56:00 <cre8radix> rhymes well
14:56:42 <cre8radix> nslater the h8r of cre8, er... me
14:57:21 <sbp> nslater: oh, one module is released under the W3C Software License
14:57:24 <sbp> in Trio
14:57:31 <sbp> (notation3.py)
14:57:34 <sbp> all the rest is EFL2
14:57:38 <nslater> is that a free software licence?
14:57:42 <sbp> yep
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14:57:46 <nslater> great
14:57:47 *** iand has parted #swhack ("Leaving.")
14:57:52 * cre8radix dances the offlicense
14:57:54 *** chris2 (n=chris@p5B16BD5E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #swhack
14:58:14 <cre8radix> who killed bambi?
14:58:25 <nslater> richard stallman
14:58:29 * cre8radix is out like on parole
14:58:49 <cre8radix> phenny: "Stall"
14:58:55 <cre8radix> phenny: "Stall"?
14:58:59 <phenny> cre8radix: Hmm, got "swedish"...
14:59:10 <cre8radix> phenny: "Der Mann im Stall"?
14:59:14 <phenny> cre8radix: "The man in the stable" (de)
14:59:24 <cre8radix> hrhr
14:59:31 <cre8radix> richie stableman
14:59:41 <nslater> i prefer to call him richars tallman
14:59:56 *** cre8radix is now known as cre8radix|afk
14:59:58 <cre8radix|afk> lol
15:00:01 <cre8radix|afk> l8r
15:00:05 <nslater> cya
15:00:21 <cre8radix|afk> bigup, nslater
15:00:28 <nslater> fo sho
15:00:30 * sbp runs trio tests, having edited the files
15:00:52 <sbp> one failure, and I think I know what's caused that. good enough
15:02:28 <sbp> nslater: okay, done! (2008-02-04, rev 25)
15:02:33 <nslater> woot
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15:07:09 <Monty> Thank goodness, _bjoern is back!
15:07:11 <phenny> Be quiet, Monty.
15:07:14 <Monty> loves unacceptable nutritious journeys...?
15:07:28 <_bjoern> Do I know anyone in Strasbourg?
15:07:57 *** xjrn has quit (Remote closed the connection)
15:08:33 <sbp> Do You
15:10:01 *** shepazu has quit ()
15:10:37 <_bjoern> Well it's just about one hour from here, but I don't recall anyone.
15:22:24 <darobin> I wouldn't recommend knowing anyone in Strasbourg
15:23:26 <sbp> unless they were sexy as ass
15:23:51 <sbp> perhaps darobin means to point out that there *are* no such people in Strasbourg
15:24:03 <darobin> exactly
15:24:11 <sbp> certainly, if there were, should we not have been informed of them?
15:24:12 <darobin> well, my gf was there for a while some years back
15:24:15 <darobin> but she hated it
15:24:28 <sbp> so... all the sexy as ass people hate it and stay away from it?
15:24:39 <sbp> Strasbourg - Kryptonite for the Sexy as Ass?
15:24:45 <darobin> someone sexy as ass lost in Strasbourg is unlikely to like anyone they meet
15:25:00 <darobin> pretty much yes
15:25:20 <darobin> most of Alsace-Lorraine isn't worth visiting
15:25:30 <darobin> I still don't know why we didn't just leave it to the Germans
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15:30:30 <Arnia> sbp: Right, written the first essay
15:30:33 <sbp> ooh!
15:30:36 <sbp> OOH!
15:30:58 <Arnia> Just trying to persuade Sandvox to publish it :)
15:31:07 <sbp> .eval '㋡' * 1000000000
15:31:09 <phenny> OverflowError: repeated string is too long (file "/home/sbp/phenny/modules/admin.py", line 63, in f_eval)
15:31:31 <Arnia> 'Approaching Human Understanding with Cognitive Science' is the title
15:31:44 <sbp> COME ON SANDVOX
15:32:08 <Arnia> I'll leave it to run for a bit
15:32:19 <Arnia> it is 'generating content'
15:32:31 <Arnia> (I thought I'd done that bit personally... but hey...)
15:32:52 <sbp> and here's me still using emacs and TextWrangler...
15:32:58 <sbp> and rsync
15:33:48 <Arnia> rsync has problems with the uni firewall
15:33:54 <sbp> ah, bummer
15:35:41 <Arnia> It isn't exactly what you're asking for, but it is of the same theme I think.
15:35:56 <sbp> I didn't expect exactly what I asked for :-)
15:36:11 <Arnia> I'll write the retort/commentary once I have time to thoroughly read the book you linked me to
15:36:17 <sbp> awesome
15:36:31 <sbp> I think that'll have some capacity to it
15:36:35 <Arnia> #swhack: hire an essayist
15:36:42 <sbp> chuckle
15:37:03 <Arnia> no... still isn't working
15:37:11 *** sbp changed the topic to: "Any Excuse"
15:37:14 <Arnia> I'll try again when I get home (about to head there now)
15:37:22 <sbp> cool, thanks again
15:37:27 <Arnia> no problem
15:37:30 <Arnia> It was fun
15:38:21 <Arnia> This is only 772 words though
15:38:32 <sbp> sounds about right
15:38:33 <Arnia> So don't expect huge amounts of meat to it
15:38:37 <sbp> aye
15:38:49 <Arnia> right... I'll be back in about ten minutes
15:38:51 *** Arnia has quit ()
15:39:29 * sbp waves fist at Sandvox
15:42:23 <sbp> .w protoplast
15:42:25 <phenny> protoplast n. 1: A biological unit consisting of a nucleus and the body of cytoplasm with which it interacts.
15:44:18 <sbp> [[[
15:44:18 <sbp> What a beautiful Thing urine is, in a Pot, brown yellow, transpicuous, the Image, diamond shaped of the Candle in it, especially, as it now appeared, I having emptied the Snuffers into it, & the Snuff floating about, & painting all-shaped Shadows on the Bottom.
15:44:18 <sbp> ]]] - Coleridge, CM i.612
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15:48:02 <sbp> ooh, my library has Coburn. awesome
15:48:26 <sbp> ooh, available for long loan
15:48:34 <sbp> and this is the sort of thing that nobody bothers to get out
15:48:43 <sbp> salivatalicious
15:49:17 <sbp> should get the first volume, parts one and two, I suppose
15:50:06 <sbp> Vol.1 covers the most interesting period anyway
15:51:11 *** Speedkore (n=speedkor@84.77.246.68) has joined #swhack
15:51:37 <sbp> hmm, they look to be about 600 pages each
15:51:42 <sbp> hey Speedkore
15:52:04 <sbp> this is not a cracking channel. we are publically logged
15:52:10 <sbp> see swhack.com for more details
15:52:46 <sbp> so Part I is "Text" and Part II is "Notes", it seems
15:53:21 *** Arnia (n=jgeldart@client-82-14-77-145.glfd.adsl.virgin.net) has joined #swhack
15:54:14 <Speedkore> ok ok
15:54:35 *** Speedkore has quit ()
15:56:39 <sbp> [[[
15:56:40 <sbp> At one time, Milton's claim in Areopagitica that 'Books are not absolutely dead things, but doe contain a potencie of life in them to be as active as that soule was whose progeny they are' would be quoted by English teachers of the more traditional kind to encourage respect for the sanctity of print. Scribbling in the margins would be regarded with horror. In a way, however, the impulse to use the white space at the edge of the page as a means of talking back to t
15:56:40 <sbp> he author is a recognition of how right Milton was. Books are active things, and the marginal note testifies to this living quality in the printed word, which electronic media, with all their purported flexibility, still lack. You cannot write marginalia on a website.
15:56:58 <sbp> ]]] - University of Toronto Quarterly 74.1 (2004/2005) 434-435, review of Samuel Taylor Coleridge. A Book I Value: Selected Marginalia. Edited by H.J. Jackson. Princeton University Press. xxiv, 246. US $17.95
15:58:49 <sbp> (review by Anthony John Harding)
16:02:43 * Arnia sighs at the vagaries of software
16:04:10 <kpreid> <sbp> this is not a cracking channel. we are publically logged
16:04:28 <kpreid> sbp: (1) how did you know what they had in mind? (2) what happened to playing with 'em?
16:05:23 <sbp> huh, cool: George Whalley, 'The Bristol Library Borrowing of Southey and Coleridge, 1793-8', The Library, 5th ser., 4 (1949), 114-32.
16:05:39 <sbp> kpreid: (1) /WHOIS showed another "hack" channel, (2) couldn't be arsed
16:05:49 <kpreid> je'e
16:05:57 <kpreid> also, hi!
16:06:00 <sbp> 'ello!
16:06:07 <sbp> I'm researching Coleridge
16:06:11 <sbp> I blame nsh
16:06:24 <kpreid> I blame sbp
16:06:38 <sbp> nooOooo
16:07:13 <sbp> ha! http://swhack.com/logs/2008-02-01#T18-19-56
16:07:37 <sbp> I gave Coleridge as an example
16:07:51 <sbp> and now I have gone on to prove my example completely, utterly, and wholly inappropriate
16:07:59 <sbp> awesome
16:08:10 <sbp> although in a way I've also proven it right
16:08:45 <sbp> because nobody knows what Coleridge "meant" in that poem, because that supposes so much already: that there was one, simple, unambiguous meaning, for example
16:09:49 <Arnia> sbp: you're turning into a post-structuralist
16:10:12 <sbp> but now that I've found out about the history of when he wrote it, and where, and all the textual history, and a massively increasing amount of things about Coleridge in general through my research, I have to say that Kubla Khan *vibrates* in a way it totally didn't before I did all this
16:10:26 <sbp> BAD STRUCTURE. TAKE AWAY YOUR TOYS
16:10:44 * sbp -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poststructuralism
16:10:56 *** _greg_ has quit ("Ex-Chat")
16:11:09 <sbp> “Second, very few people have willingly accepted the label 'post-structuralist'; rather, they have been labeled as such by others.”
16:11:16 <sbp> looks like I have to reject your intimation
16:11:44 <Arnia> well, what else can you do? It *is* tradition
16:12:15 <sbp> okay, I see what you mean:
16:12:21 <sbp> “The meaning the author intended is secondary to the meaning that the reader perceives. Post-structuralism rejects the idea of a literary text having a single purpose, a single meaning or one singular existence. Instead, every individual reader creates a new and individual purpose, meaning, and existence for a given text.”
16:12:45 <sbp> I don't entirely agree with this, I have to say, but in the case of Kubla Khan I am certainly leaning towards writing up something along these lines
16:13:15 <sbp> I mean it's clear that what is actually *received* is not just the poem, but the packaging of the poem with its legend, the person from Porlock and the anodyne-inspired Reverie
16:13:15 <kpreid> Arnia: Narsese sure has a lot of angle brackets
16:13:22 <Arnia> <><<<><>>>
16:14:15 <sbp> and even Coleridge writes of it, in the preface (which he didn't call a preface) as a a psychological curiosity. now most have taken him to be simply coy on this, because he disclaims any poetic merit, "oh, isn't he modest"; but what if he really did think that?
16:14:23 <kpreid> Arnia: (*,...) is essentially a tuple, isn't it?
16:14:32 <sbp> and certainly, the Crewe MS has a footnote that is like an early version of the preface
16:14:33 <Arnia> kpreid: yep
16:14:39 <sbp> so already he was passing it on with a kernel of the legend
16:15:02 <Arnia> <(*, Arnia, sbp) --> foaf_knows>.
16:15:20 <sbp> perhaps he didn't recognise the need for it too overtly at first, but he seems to have done so by the time of publication. perhaps as he shared it with his friends and acquaintances he found that the story interested them
16:15:25 <sbp> whoops, dinner
16:16:15 <sbp> where Coleridge is concerned, I feel like a child in an intellectual sweetshop
16:16:29 <nslater> nice analogy
16:17:25 <kpreid> Arnia: Remind me what the \ and / operators connect to? I seem to recall discussion of predicate-logic-style R(x,y,z) in the papers, but I don't know what that corresponds to in this syntax
16:17:25 <Arnia> http://www.elsewhere.org/pomo
16:17:25 *** dpawson has parted #swhack ("ttfn")
16:17:33 <kpreid> is it some type of *?
16:18:01 <Arnia> kpreid: they're image operators... they allow you to make statements about the ext-/intension of parts of a tuple
16:18:16 <kpreid> okay, it was that last part I wanted to know
16:18:19 <kpreid> "of a tuple'
16:18:27 <kpreid> I knew the rest of it already :)
16:18:31 <kpreid> I think...
16:22:15 <Arnia> The op(x,y,z) syntax is used for operators
16:22:43 <Arnia> it is a shorthand for (*,x,y,z) --> op where op is a primitive operator
16:22:53 <Arnia> (primitive meaning axiomatic here)
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16:42:27 <sbp> Arnia: did't publish yet?
16:42:36 <Arnia> no... still fiddling
16:42:40 <_bjoern> Windows XP hiding some files by default seriously sucks.
16:42:41 <sbp> m'kay
16:43:05 <_bjoern> Someone tried to restore My Files and other directories from a backup
16:43:32 <_bjoern> and that semi-succeeded, the backup program said it restored and didn't restore the files
16:44:09 <_bjoern> So I tried to check that the files have indeed been restored
16:44:35 <_bjoern> and they kind of were, but Windows wouldn't show the My Files folder,
16:44:50 <_bjoern> despite that restored folder being in a different directory
16:45:36 <_bjoern> Now it does not hide the folder simply based on the name,
16:45:59 <_bjoern> and there are no special [system/hidden/archive/...] flags set
16:46:23 <_bjoern> So I suppose there is some other way windows recalls the folder is special,
16:46:33 <_bjoern> and that the backup preserves and restores that property
16:47:30 <sbp> heh, that reference I gave about is proving difficult to track down
16:47:44 <_bjoern> Thankfully `dir` does not try to be as clever...
16:47:47 <sbp> I mean, the amount of false positives for a journal called "The Library" is bound to be high...
16:48:47 <_bjoern> Actually, if I copy the My Files folder, it's not hidden either
16:48:59 *** pierpa has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:49:22 <_bjoern> Ah well, don't try to understand windows...
16:49:27 <sbp> ooh, think I might've found it
16:49:38 <sbp> ISSN 0024-2160
16:50:17 <sbp> yep! whoo!
16:50:20 <sbp> PDF available!
16:53:34 <sbp> cool, Holinshed
16:53:59 <sbp> poems of Burns
16:54:13 <sbp> Fuller's Worthies
16:57:21 <sbp> pretty interesting list
16:58:28 <_bjoern> .gs it is * to see you again
16:58:31 <phenny> it is * to see you again: nice (18), good (13), wonderful (5), a pleasure (5), so nice (3), great (3), fantastic (3), pleasurable (2), perfectly delicious (2), fabulous (2), cant wait (2), awsome (2), wondr
16:58:52 <bancus> IT IS PERFECTLY DELICIOUS TO SEE YOU AGAIN, MY DEAR
16:59:03 *** libby has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
16:59:10 <bancus> ABSOLUTELY SCRUMPTIOUS TO MAKE YOUR ACQUAINTANCE
16:59:41 <_bjoern> .compare "It is agreeable to see you" "It is disagreeable to see you"
16:59:44 <phenny> "It is agreeable to see you" (5,550), "It is disagreeable to see you" (0)
17:00:29 <_bjoern> .title http://www.pennlive.com/newsflash/pa/index.ssf?/base/news-59/1202053157183800.xml&storylist=penn
17:00:31 <phenny> _bjoern: Teen faces WMD charge after plastic egg explodes - NewsFlash - PennLive.com
17:02:05 <_bjoern> .title http://www.local10.com/news/15207475/detail.html
17:02:13 <phenny> _bjoern: Sex Offenders Living Under Bridge Asked To Leave - Miami News Story - WPLG Miami
17:05:17 <sbp> Arnia: hmm, essays/there_again/towards_the_active_web.html disappeared
17:05:45 *** sbp changed the topic to: "<bancus> ABSOLUTELY SCRUMPTIOUS TO MAKE YOUR ACQUAINTANCE"
17:18:27 <_bjoern> .ety delight
17:18:29 <phenny> "c.1225, delit, from O.Fr. delit, from delitier 'please greatly, charm,' from L. delectare 'to allure, delight,' freq. of delicere 'entice' (see delicious)." - http://etymonline.com/?term=delight
17:19:41 <deltab> _bjoern: maybe the desktop.ini file inside it, or a uuid as extension
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17:27:08 <sbp> .compare raboon rabboon
17:27:11 <phenny> raboon (5,320), rabboon (96)
17:29:18 <_bjoern> deltab, shouldn't the desktop.ini only affect how the folder is displayed, not whether it is displayed?
17:32:05 <sbp> isn't whether it is displayed a property of how it is displayed?
17:32:33 <sbp> I know what you mean though—desktop.ini shouldn't be read *until* you're displaying that folder
17:32:37 <sbp> not its parent; right?
17:32:51 <_bjoern> I was referring to the contents, yes.
17:37:35 <sbp> Arnia: now /essays/ is gone!
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17:38:42 <deltab> sbp: it determines the icon?
17:39:48 <sbp> hmm, hadn't thought about that. good point
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17:51:55 <xover> «I feel like a child in an intellectual sweetshop»
17:52:00 <xover> Bored?
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17:54:22 <sbp> heh
17:54:35 <sbp> an intellectual child in an...
17:54:54 <sbp> the nice thing about it is that it's a lot less hard work than with Shakespeare
17:55:02 <xover> Mind Your Metaphores.
17:55:20 <sbp> Shakespeaean research = millions of documents, millions of authors, very difficult to actually find what you're looking for and relate the history with the art
17:56:06 <xover> Whereas with Coleridge it's a piece of piss (in some weirdly described color)?
17:56:08 <sbp> Colridgean research (from what I can tell from my foray so far) = slightly more than reasonable amount of documents, but still an unreasonable amount of stuff that hasn't been critically assimilated
17:56:19 <sbp> well, it's easier. so yeah, some colour
17:56:43 <sbp> oh yes, brown yellow, transpicuous
17:57:25 <xover> Does it come with Snuff, or will you be required to provide it?
17:57:37 <sbp> hopefully it already comes with it
17:57:41 <sbp> the closest I have is Rosin
17:58:09 <xover> Because brown yellow piss just wouldn't be the same without some snuff to finish it off.
17:58:23 <sbp> agreed
17:58:37 <xover> Tell me, is he one of the ones that cut off his own ear towards the end?
17:58:53 <sbp> I've mainly been concentrating on the early years
17:58:59 <sbp> I don't really understand the later years now
17:59:05 <xover> Ah, so we wouldn't want to spoil the ending.
17:59:05 <danja> oh bum, sorry Arnia, just realised I still hadn't got back to your piece
17:59:07 <sbp> there was some heavy opium addiction and some problems from that
17:59:20 <sbp> and then in the end... I don't know. it looks weird
17:59:23 <sbp> the critical reception, I mean
17:59:34 <sbp> I read somewhere that people find excuses not to bother looking at Coleridge's later years
17:59:39 <sbp> which seems a very odd thing
17:59:52 <danja> Arnia, will snag for my flight tomorrow :-)
17:59:52 * danja glad to see something from sbp I can stick in TWSW
17:59:59 <sbp> hehe. whoo!
18:00:06 <sbp> OWL and SGML?
18:00:12 <xover> ...
18:00:15 <xover> !
18:00:23 <sbp> xover: I compared OWL to being the SGML of the Semantic Web
18:00:31 <xover> Ah.
18:00:32 <sbp> citing what HTML 5 has to say about OWL
18:01:01 <xover> You've read HTML 5? No wonder you're composing odes to brown yellow piss
18:01:08 <sbp> mmm
18:01:14 <sbp> I haven't read *all* of it...
18:01:25 <xover> Just the Snuff bits?
18:01:28 <sbp> right
18:01:33 <xover> Bobbing along on the surface.
18:01:43 <sbp> well it makes one to reach for the snuff in places...
18:03:04 *** mmmmmrob (n=mmmmmrob@82-46-200-212.cable.ubr04.king.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #swhack
18:03:26 <xover> We need a “mmmmmkay” in here.
18:03:38 <sbp> Monty: do it
18:03:42 <_bjoern> twe, kill them now! They are using evil words again.
18:03:42 <Monty> one time, that over thirty Contributing Editors in NetNewsWire, seems easier
18:03:49 *** sdkay is now known as mmmmmkay
18:03:50 <xover> .seen mmmmmkay
18:03:53 <phenny> Sorry, I haven't seen mmmmmkay around.
18:03:56 <twe> _bjoern: Now would you say words in the channel, announcing it again in the bath - have you considered learning japanese?
18:03:58 <xover> LIES!
18:04:00 <sbp> thx sdkay
18:04:29 <mmmmmkay> I already had a kay...
18:04:36 <xover> Oooh. A waterproof laptop! #swhacking from teh bathtub!
18:04:41 <sbp> .wik Harry Stern
18:04:44 <phenny> "Harry Stern was the mayor of Cumberland, Maryland from 1990 to 1992." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Stern
18:04:47 <mmmmmkay> Waitwaitwait
18:04:58 <mmmmmkay> You should not know that
18:05:08 <mmmmmkay> ...
18:05:12 <sbp> your mayoral history is always gonna leak out eventually
18:10:40 <xover> .gc UDP 1123
18:10:43 <phenny> UDP 1123: 127,000
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18:31:56 <sbp> .title http://www.computer.org/portal/site/computer/menuitem.5d61c1d591162e4b0ef1bd108bcd45f3/index.jsp?&pName=computer_level1_article&TheCat=1075&path=computer/homepage/0108&file=webtech.xml&xsl=article.xsl&
18:31:59 <phenny> sbp: Web 3.0: Chicken Farms on the Semantic Web
18:32:01 <sbp> I think Hendler's flipped
18:32:12 <sbp> “It's an exciting time for those of us who have been evangelists, early adopters, and language designers for Semantic Web technology. What we see in Web 3.0 is the Semantic Web community moving from arguing over chickens and eggs to creating its first real chicken farms.”
18:32:20 <sbp> purely not true, unless I'm looking in the wrong direction
18:33:17 <mmmmmkay> 3.0? What, no incremental 2.2-9?
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18:35:42 <sbp> mmmmmkay:
18:35:44 <sbp> .title http://www.jasonkolb.com/weblog/2008/01/web-40-oh-puhle.html
18:35:46 <phenny> sbp: Web 4.0?? Oh puhleeze from JasonKolb.com - The life of a technology entrepreneur.
18:36:58 <sbp> good grief: http://www.jasonkolb.com/weblog/2008/01/is-there-a-need.html
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18:48:42 * sbp wonders how Arnia's getting on with the essay upload
18:49:22 <bancus> .cp interrobang
18:49:24 <phenny> 203D: INTERROBANG (‽)
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19:02:28 <cre8radix> sbp: http://fukung.net/images/2212/white_supremacy.jpg
19:02:32 <cre8radix> O_o
19:03:00 <sbp> cre8radix: think I've seen that before
19:03:06 <sbp> clsn: I have a project for you to do!
19:03:13 <cre8radix> 'fcourse
19:03:19 <sbp> clsn: http://inamidst.com/whits/2008/02#etysaurus
19:03:22 <cre8radix> cool!
19:03:33 <clsn> Oh? Lemme see. I need a purpose in my life these days.
19:04:02 <sbp> make an etysaurus!
19:04:46 <sbp> s/reason nobody did such huge achievements like this/$& before/
19:05:05 * sbp fixes that
19:05:54 <clsn> The other day I was trying to parse "helicopter"; my kids were asking about its etymology... and I'm pondering, gee, "helio"/sun, and... *DUH* helico, as in helix + pter/wing.
19:06:24 <clsn> Wow. Thing is, dictionaries already have etymology sections. The trick is working out how to organize it so it is useful.
19:06:43 <cre8radix> sounds good
19:06:49 <clsn> Possibly not even organizable as a book, but only as a searchable DB. Which would be cool. But the problem remains the same: how to structure things.
19:07:24 <sbp> yeah, Quinion writes about people wrongly dividing helicopter at heli/copter
19:07:33 <jsled> .ety helicopter
19:07:36 <phenny> jsled: 02 F
