2008-02-20 Swhack IRC Log

00:00:24 <sbp> got it, thanks
00:00:26 <sbp> implementing
00:00:32 <nslater> \o/
00:01:04 <cre8radix|afk> sbp: send me an update note, willya!?
00:01:12 <sbp> an update note?
00:01:28 <cre8radix|afk> once you got phenny2
00:01:31 <sbp> oh, yep
00:01:35 <sbp> it'll be fairly easy
00:02:05 <sbp> okay, made the changes to reload and search...
00:02:20 <sbp> .cp test
00:02:21 <phenny> sbp: .cp has been replaced by .u
00:02:39 <nslater> .u floral heart
00:02:40 <phenny> U+2766 FLORAL HEART (❦)
00:02:45 <nslater> awe yeeah
00:02:45 *** phenny has quit (Remote closed the connection)
00:02:47 *** phenny (i=sbp@bia.crschmidt.net) has joined #swhack
00:03:00 <sbp> phenny: reload clock
00:03:06 <phenny> NameError: global name 'self' is not defined (file "/var/www/inamidst.com/htdocs/phenny/modules/reload.py", line 26, in f_reload)
00:03:09 *** cre8radix has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:03:10 <nslater> ouch
00:03:11 * sbp sobs
00:03:39 <bjoern_> ur breakin our toys.
00:03:43 <nslater> tsk tsk, calling staticmethods as classmethods...
00:04:00 <sbp> nope, I just got the variable name wrong
00:04:03 <nslater> oh
00:04:49 *** phenny has quit (Remote closed the connection)
00:04:51 *** phenny (i=sbp@bia.crschmidt.net) has joined #swhack
00:04:58 <sbp> okay, I tested it in advance this time!
00:04:58 <Arnia> nslater: plus I need to get EPSRC excited, which may be harder. Still everyone I've spoken to thus far seems quite eager for the project to go ahead. It is so big though.
00:04:58 <Arnia> nslater: Everything from the technical (how do we implement these diffuse clouds of knowledge? how do we seek new knowledge in them?) and logical (what logic should be used to reason with uncertainty?) to the environmental (how do we embody these clouds and let people interact with them?)
00:05:12 <sbp> phenny: reload clock
00:05:13 <phenny> sbp: <module 'modules.clock' from '/var/www/inamidst.com/htdocs/phenny/modules/clock.pyc'> (version: 2008-02-21 12:26:55)
00:05:15 <sbp> whoo
00:05:19 <sbp> .t
00:05:20 <phenny> Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:27:26 GMT
00:05:23 <sbp> excellent
00:05:34 <Arnia> Certainly, a conventional desktop computer or browser is inadequate as a primary interaction metaphor
00:05:38 *** cre8radix|afk is now known as cre8radix
00:05:42 * Arnia wants to get working
00:05:53 <nslater> .g EPSRC
00:05:54 <phenny> nslater: http://www.epsrc.ac.uk/
00:06:00 <Arnia> I have so many ideas as to how to do it, and I want to test them
00:06:02 <nslater> .title http://www.epsrc.ac.uk/
00:06:03 <phenny> Can't connect to /default.htm
00:06:07 <nslater> fail
00:06:17 <Arnia> nslater: Engineering and Physical Sciences Research Council
00:06:28 <nslater> sbp: bug tiem ^
00:06:35 <nslater> "The EPSRC is the source of official information about engineering and physical sciences research grants and funding."
00:06:40 <sbp> hmm
00:06:40 <nslater> That explains a lot... ;)
00:06:50 <sbp> .head http://www.epsrc.ac.uk/ Location
00:06:51 <phenny> Location: /default.htm
00:07:14 <xover> .t
00:07:14 <phenny> Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:29:20 GMT
00:07:17 <xover> .tock
00:07:17 <phenny> "Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:29:23 GMT" - tycho.usno.navy.mil
00:07:29 <xover> .val http://validator.w3.org/
00:07:35 <xover> .val http://localhost/
00:07:47 <xover> .head http://www.google.com
00:07:47 <phenny> Status: 200 (for more, try ".head uri header")
00:07:48 <sbp> nslater: "The field value consists of a single absolute URI." - RFC 2616
00:07:58 <sbp> validate needs to be ported, @@
00:08:05 <xover> .head http://www.google.com
00:08:06 <phenny> Status: 200 (for more, try ".head uri header")
00:08:06 <xover> .head http://www.google.com
00:08:06 <phenny> Status: 200 (for more, try ".head uri header")
00:08:27 <xover> Hmm. Needs at least nick prefix I think.
00:08:31 <sbp> nslater: I'll allow for it anyway. accept liberal
00:08:40 <sbp> I'm going to change .head quite a bir
00:08:41 <sbp> ...bit
00:08:54 *** chris2 has quit ("Leaving")
00:08:55 <xover> .acronym sbp
00:09:10 <sbp> acronym is gone, not to return
00:09:17 <xover> .pc Ç
00:09:17 <phenny> xover: .pc has been replaced by .u
00:09:21 <xover> .u Ç
00:09:21 <phenny> U+00C7 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER C WITH CEDILLA (Ç)
00:09:22 <sbp> give me a while and I'm going to document all these things
00:09:27 <xover> No!
00:09:28 <sbp> so that it'll act like .pc just did
00:09:34 <xover> .img pron
00:09:40 <sbp> img hasn't worked for *years*
00:09:48 <sbp> even in the old phenny
00:09:55 <xover> .calc 666 USD in NOK
00:10:03 <xover> .seen sbp
00:10:03 <sbp> calc needs to be ported to Frink
00:10:04 <phenny> xover: I last saw sbp at 2008-02-21 12:31:55 UTC on #swhack
00:10:14 <xover> .map 9021
00:10:20 <sbp> heh, map. that's gone
00:10:26 <xover> .weather Tromsø
00:10:27 <phenny> KeyError: u'\xf8' (file "/var/www/inamidst.com/htdocs/phenny/modules/weather.py", line 29, in location)
00:10:36 <xover> .weather LARF
00:10:37 <phenny> LARF: no such ICAO code, or no NOAA data
00:10:38 <sbp> yikes
00:10:40 <sbp> fixing that
00:10:47 <xover> .wik Sbp
00:10:48 <phenny> Can't find anything in Wikipedia for "Sbp".
00:10:52 <xover> .wik Fuck
00:10:53 <phenny> "Fuck is an English word that, as a verb, literally means 'to have sexual intercourse with.' Its use is generally considered censurable and offensive in most formal circles, but may also be rather common or expected in certain situations or social groups." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuck
00:12:03 <sbp> .weather Tromsø
00:12:03 <phenny> Stop it Sean. It hurts when you rearrange my innards like that!
00:12:06 <phenny> UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xe2 in position 26: ordinal not in range(128) (file "/var/www/inamidst.com/htdocs/phenny/irc.py", line 46, in write)
00:12:08 <sbp> heh, heh
00:12:25 <sbp> what! it just worked on the other channel...
00:12:27 <xover> .karma sbp
00:12:39 <xover> phenny: reload sbp
00:12:43 <sbp> 12:33 <sbp> .weather Tromsø
00:12:43 <sbp> 12:34 <phenny> Cloudy, 3℃, 983mb, Light breeze 2m/s (4kt) (↑) - ENTC 13:20, 1220Z
00:12:54 <sbp> phenny!
00:13:05 <sbp> great, now she's dead
00:13:14 <xover> heh heh
00:13:21 <bjoern_> SBP - Toy Destroyer
00:13:33 <sbp> all your toys are belong to the state of being fixed
00:13:48 <bjoern_> Don't cheat bot death.
00:13:53 <sbp> hehe
00:14:41 *** est (n=est@adsl-71-142-71-85.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) has joined #swhack
00:14:50 <cre8radix> phenny!
00:15:05 <sbp> I don't understand the UnicodeDecodeError
00:15:30 <bjoern_> It's trying to use the ascii codec even though it shouldn't.
00:15:49 *** phenny has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:15:51 *** phenny (i=sbp@bia.crschmidt.net) has joined #swhack
00:16:04 <sbp> yeah, but it shouldn't be shouldn't
00:16:05 <bjoern_> Now of all things you've angered peer.
00:16:20 *** bjoern_ is now known as _bjoern
00:16:21 <sbp> well peer's pretty angry all the time
00:16:40 <sbp> .weather Tromsø
00:16:42 <phenny> ...
00:16:45 <sbp> hehe
00:16:51 <sbp> I overused that command in testing...
00:16:52 <sbp> phenny!
00:16:53 <phenny> sbp!
00:16:56 <_bjoern> .weather München
00:16:56 <sbp> .u ㋡
00:16:57 <phenny> Cloudy, 9℃, 1025mb, Gentle breeze 15km/h (8kt) (↑) - EDMO 13:20, 1220Z
00:16:58 <phenny> U+32E1 CIRCLED KATAKANA TU (㋡)
00:16:59 <sbp> thanks
00:17:58 <_bjoern> .weather 東京
00:18:00 <phenny> Cloudy, 9℃, 1022mb, Light air 3kt (↑) - RJTT 21:30, 1230Z
00:18:22 <_bjoern> non-ascii in the weather data?
00:18:38 *** nwalsh (n=ndw@66-189-4-239.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com) has joined #swhack
00:18:39 <sbp> nope, .write is the command which sends data to the server
00:18:42 <sbp> really, really low level
00:19:08 <sbp> it should only be receiving bytes, because the only command that calls it natively converts it all to bytes
00:19:15 <sbp> somehow it's received some unicode
00:19:27 <sbp> and it's all "wtf, better convart this to byeits lol!!"
00:19:38 <sbp> but because it's a dipfuck, it doesn't know how and tries to use the ascii codec
00:19:40 <sbp> and fails
00:19:55 <_bjoern> it's a DecodeError, not an EncodeError?
00:20:07 <sbp> huh, that's a point
00:20:13 <sbp> in that case I doubly don't understand it!
00:20:28 <sbp> I suppose it's getting a mix of unicode and bytes and trying to coerce them all to unicode then
00:20:40 <nslater> that makes sense
00:20:54 <nslater> if your doing a concat python does that automagically
00:21:43 <sbp> yeah
00:21:55 <sbp> couldn't remember which way around it did it
00:21:59 <sbp> I dunno what the rules are for it in general
00:22:11 <sbp> phenny: reload freenode
00:22:12 <phenny> sbp: <module 'opt.freenode' from '/var/www/inamidst.com/htdocs/phenny/opt/freenode.py'> (version: 2008-02-21 12:43:38)
00:22:13 <nslater> unicode + str = unicode
00:22:15 <sbp> .map 90210
00:22:16 <phenny> sbp: the .map command has been removed; ask sbp for details
00:22:22 <sbp> I am sbp!
00:22:26 <nslater> fail
00:22:29 <sbp> phenny: ask sbp for details
00:22:30 <phenny> You can ask yourself that.
00:22:33 <sbp> 'k
00:22:44 <nslater> phenny: ask sbp wtf?
00:22:45 <phenny> nslater: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
00:22:53 <sbp> zomgfck
00:22:54 <phenny> sbp: 12:44Z <nslater> ask sbp wtf?
00:23:01 <_bjoern> phenny, tell bjoern_ chg ur n1ck plz
00:23:01 <phenny> _bjoern: I'll pass that on when bjoern_ is around.
00:23:07 <sbp> hehe
00:23:18 <sbp> okay, let's port validate.py
00:27:58 <sbp> phenny: reload freenode
00:27:59 <phenny> sbp: <module 'opt.freenode' from '/var/www/inamidst.com/htdocs/phenny/opt/freenode.py'> (version: 2008-02-21 12:48:47)
00:28:01 <sbp> phenny: reload validate
00:28:02 <phenny> sbp: <module 'modules.validate' from '/var/www/inamidst.com/htdocs/phenny/modules/validate.pyc'> (version: 2008-02-21 12:50:09)
00:28:03 *** cthompson (n=ct@cpe-65-27-254-58.cinci.res.rr.com) has joined #swhack
00:28:09 <sbp> .check http://www.w3.org/
00:28:11 <phenny> www.w3.org/ is Valid
00:28:33 <nslater> .check inamidst.com
00:28:45 <sbp> http: is required
00:28:49 <sbp> perhaps I should disrequire it
00:28:51 <nslater> why?
00:29:03 <sbp> PERHAPS I SHOULD DISREQUIRE IT
00:29:07 <_bjoern> .check is a terrible name for this.
00:29:08 <nslater> lol
00:29:15 <sbp> _bjoern: it's what validator.w3.org uses!
00:29:19 <nslater> sorry, i suffered from typing lag
00:29:22 <sbp> :-)
00:29:26 <nslater> .check http://inamidst.com
00:29:27 <phenny> inamidst.com is Abort
00:29:31 <nslater> lolololol
00:29:33 <_bjoern> well it does not use a bare "check"
00:29:38 <sbp> I don't like .val though
00:29:40 *** nslater changed the topic to: "< phenny> inamidst.com is Abort"
00:29:41 <sbp> got a suggestion?
00:30:03 <cthompson> .validate
00:30:04 <_bjoern> A bad one like .w3cok?
00:30:04 <phenny> cthompson: .validate has been replaced by .check
00:30:11 <cthompson> well there you go
00:30:19 <nslater> i prefer validate, or val
00:30:42 <sbp> I don't like either
00:30:53 <sbp> validate is too long, and val looks like you're calling the webpage Valerie
00:30:58 <nslater> check is vacuous
00:31:06 <nslater> void of meaning
00:31:16 <nslater> may as well call it "operation" or "dostuff"
00:31:27 <sbp> suggest alternatives then
00:31:31 <nslater> val ;)
00:31:38 <sbp> val is crap
00:31:39 <nslater> valid
00:31:40 <_bjoern> .thesaurus validate
00:31:50 <_bjoern> thx for breaking phenny
00:31:51 <sbp> thesaurus is um pending porting... :-)
00:31:52 <Monty> I can't find any alternative words for is um pending porting... :-)
00:31:58 <nslater> .pedant? .markup-nazi?
00:31:59 <sbp> thesaurus validate
00:32:00 <Monty> I can't find any alternative words for validate
00:32:08 <sbp> hehe, markup-nazi works for me
00:32:10 <xover> .compare "Princess Amidala" "Princess Fuckmeharder"
00:32:10 <phenny> xover: .compare has been replaced by .comp or .gco; you choose!
00:32:15 <nslater> .nazi for short
00:32:20 <_bjoern> phenny2 sux
00:32:29 <sbp> you'll get used to it
00:32:33 <sbp> give it chance to grow
00:32:34 <_bjoern> nu
00:32:36 <sbp> .comp "Princess Amidala" "Princess Fuckmeharder"
00:32:37 <sbp> hehe
00:32:38 <phenny> KeyError: 'estimatedCount' (file "/var/www/inamidst.com/htdocs/phenny/modules/search.py", line 39, in count)
00:32:44 <sbp> oh bloody hell
00:32:46 <nslater> fail
00:33:51 <sbp> hmm
00:33:54 <sbp> .gcs might be better
00:33:59 <sbp> yeah, like .gcs
00:34:08 <sbp> googlecounts
00:34:44 <nslater> how about .wc for w3c check
00:34:52 <_bjoern> word count
00:34:53 <nslater> error
00:34:59 <nslater> .wv w3c validate
00:35:31 <sbp> eh, I'll just restore .val
00:35:32 <nslater> i dont like that actually, ignore me
00:37:37 <sbp> .gcs "Princess Amidala" "Princess Fuckmeharder"
00:37:39 <phenny> "Princess Amidala" (11,100), "Princess Fuckmeharder" (0)
00:37:44 <sbp> .val http://inamidst.com/
00:37:47 <phenny> http://inamidst.com/ is Invalid (7 errors)
00:37:50 <sbp> .val http://www.w3.org/
00:37:51 <phenny> http://www.w3.org/ is Valid
00:37:54 <sbp> .val www.w3.org
00:37:56 <phenny> http://www.w3.org is Valid
00:38:00 <sbp> .v http://example.org/
00:38:00 <phenny> sbp: .v has been replaced by .val
00:38:04 <sbp> there
00:38:11 <sbp> .compare p q
00:38:11 <phenny> sbp: .compare has been replaced by .gcs (googlecounts)
00:41:39 <sbp> .calc 5 + 3
00:41:40 <phenny> sbp: .calc is not yet ported to the new codebase, sorry!
00:42:10 <_bjoern> .dontbeannoying
00:42:23 <sbp> feel free to port calc.py yourself
00:42:43 <sbp> THOUGHT SO
00:42:55 * sbp works on it right now
00:43:25 <_bjoern> I suggest we form a resistance group and run our own rogue phenny1.
00:43:28 <sbp> heheh
00:43:34 <nslater> i agree...
00:43:46 <nslater> i might bring 9 plums into the channel
00:43:59 <sbp> the cruft that you love so much will slowly reaccumulate
00:44:01 <sbp> it's bound to
00:44:52 <sbp> I think for the most part you won't even notice
00:45:04 <sbp> it's only because you're trying to break her, and it's a bit buggy still
00:45:06 *** phenny-oldskool (n=phenny-o@bytesexual.org) has joined #swhack
00:45:07 <Monty> howdy, phenny-oldskool
00:45:15 <sbp> .g test
00:45:16 <phenny> sbp: http://www.test.com/
00:45:16 <nslater> hey phenny-oldskool
00:45:16 <phenny-oldskool> test: http://www.test.com/
00:45:17 <phenny> Hey nslater
00:45:19 <sbp> .gc test
00:45:19 <phenny-oldskool> test: 1,050,000,000
00:45:20 <phenny> test: 1,170,000,000
00:45:22 <nslater> hahaha
00:45:33 <sbp> .gcs 1 2 3
00:45:34 <phenny> 1 (20,270,000,000), 2 (17,470,000,000), 3 (15,660,000,000)
00:46:20 *** phenny-oldskool has quit (Remote closed the connection)
00:46:24 <clsn> Yay, got the kids to the bus.
00:47:03 <aspect> 1>2, clearly
00:47:28 <clsn> 1 is the loneliest number that you ever knew. Srsly.
00:47:57 <aspect> google says no
00:47:59 <_bjoern> At least it's a whole number on its own.
00:48:15 <cthompson> 2+2 != 5, even for very large values of 2
00:52:43 <aspect> for large enough calues of 2, 2+2>5
00:53:08 <aspect> get your operator associativity wrong and that's 3 !!
00:56:55 <sbp> .calc 1 + 2
00:56:56 <phenny> 1 + 2 = 3
00:56:58 <sbp> .calc 5 USD in GBP
00:57:00 <phenny> 5 USD in GBP = 2.55363 GBP
00:57:06 <sbp> .calc 1 smoot in feet
00:57:07 <phenny> 1 smoot in feet = 67/12 (approx. 5.583333333333333) feet
00:57:09 <sbp> .calc AOKRGoakrg
00:57:10 <phenny> AOKRGoakrg = AOKRGoakrg (undefined symbol)
00:57:13 <sbp> .calc i * pi
00:57:14 <phenny> i * pi = 3.141592653589793238 i
00:57:15 <sbp> there
00:57:40 <aspect> .calc (e^pi)-1
00:57:41 <phenny> (e^pi)-1 = 22.14069
00:57:51 <clsn> .calc i^i
00:57:51 <phenny> i^i = 0.20788
00:57:55 <aspect> err I missed i in there somewhere
00:58:01 <sbp> .calc (e ** i * pi) - 1
00:58:02 <phenny> (e ** i * pi) - 1 =
00:58:05 <sbp> heh
00:58:09 <aspect> cooool
00:58:16 <clsn> .calc 1-1
00:58:17 <phenny> 1-1 = 0
00:58:18 <_bjoern> .calc mass of mars over mass of sun
00:58:19 <phenny> mass of mars over mass of sun = 2.3504430539097885747e-17 mars (undefined symbol)of (undefined symbol)of (undefined symbol)over (undefined symbol)sun (undefined symbol)
00:58:27 <aspect> haha
00:58:28 <clsn> .calc 2**4
00:58:29 <phenny> 2**4 =
00:58:36 <clsn> Oh. It doesn't do **.
00:58:38 <sbp> yeah
00:58:45 <clsn> .calc e^(i*pi)-1
00:58:47 <sbp> not sure what the equivalent it's expecting is
00:58:47 <aspect> .calc e^(pi(i))-1
00:58:47 <phenny> e^(i*pi)-1 = ( -2.0 + 1.2246467991473532e-16 i )
00:58:48 <phenny> e^(pi(i))-1 = ( -2.0 + 1.2246467991473532e-16 i )
00:59:14 <sbp> something like that, I guess
00:59:23 <sbp> .calc e^(i*pi) + 1
00:59:24 <phenny> e^(i*pi) + 1 = 1.2246467991473532e-16 i
00:59:31 <clsn> That's close.
00:59:33 <sbp> yeah
00:59:37 <sbp> float errorz
01:00:44 <clsn> .calc mass of earth / volume of earth
01:00:46 <phenny> mass of earth / volume of earth = 4.8481368110953599354e-9 earth (undefined symbol)earth (undefined symbol)of (undefined symbol)of (undefined symbol)volume (undefined symbol)^-1
01:00:59 <clsn> OK, that's not right.
01:01:21 <sbp> .calc earthmass / earthvolume
01:01:23 <phenny> earthmass / earthvolume = 5.9742e+24 kg (mass) earthvolume (undefined symbol)^-1
01:01:41 <sbp> it doesn't have the volume, but it has the mass
01:01:55 <sbp> .calc sundist - moondist
01:01:57 <phenny> sundist - moondist = 1.4921362295171278930e+11 m (length)
01:02:12 <clsn> .calc 14 N * 12m
01:02:13 <phenny> 14 N * 12m = 168 m^2 s^-2 kg (energy)
01:02:26 <clsn> ok so it knows a little about dimensions
01:02:34 <_bjoern> .calc 4.7 KB over 2000kbps
01:02:36 <phenny> 4.7 KB over 2000kbps = 9.4000000e+6 s^-1 bit (unknown unit type) KB (undefined symbol)over (undefined symbol)
01:02:52 <sbp> one problem is that it doesn't know about KB and MB and GB
01:02:58 <sbp> nor kbps apparently
01:03:17 <clsn> Well, but it did successfully figure out that it had to do with bits per second.
01:03:24 <clsn> But it got all confuzzled.
01:03:57 <sbp> .calc 1 kilobyte in megabytes
01:03:58 <phenny> 1 kilobyte in megabytes = 1/1000 (exactly 0.0010) megabytes
01:04:21 <clsn> .calc 1 kibibyte in bytes
01:04:21 <phenny> 1 kibibyte in bytes = 1024 bytes
01:04:25 <sbp> .calc 1 kilobyte / 1 megabytes
01:04:27 <phenny> 1 kilobyte / 1 megabytes = 64000000000 bit^2 (unknown unit type)
01:04:32 <sbp> .calc 1 kilobyte / 1 megabyte
01:04:33 <phenny> 1 kilobyte / 1 megabyte = 64000000000 bit^2 (unknown unit type)
01:04:53 <sbp> .calc 1 megabyte / 1 kilobyte
01:04:54 <clsn> .calc 1 MiB in MB
01:04:55 <phenny> 1 megabyte / 1 kilobyte = 64000000000 bit^2 (unknown unit type)
01:04:56 <phenny> 1 MiB in MB = MiB (undefined symbol)MB (undefined symbol) MB
01:05:01 <clsn> owell.
01:05:09 *** cr`x (n=crux@user-12lcqh4.cable.mindspring.com) has joined #swhack
01:05:27 <sbp> .calc 4.7 kilobytes / 2000 kilobytes/second
01:05:28 <phenny> 4.7 kilobytes / 2000 kilobytes/second = 150400.0 s^-1 bit^2 (unknown unit type)
01:06:26 <sbp> .calc 4.7 kilobytes / 2000 (kilobits /second)
01:06:27 <phenny> 4.7 kilobytes / 2000 (kilobits /second) = 18800.0 s^-1 bit^2 (unknown unit type)
01:07:07 <sbp> hmm
01:07:09 <sbp> something's wrong there
01:07:15 <sbp> it's 18.8 ms, Google says
01:09:21 <_bjoern> .calc 4.7 kilobytes / (2000 (kilobits /second))
01:09:22 <phenny> 4.7 kilobytes / (2000 (kilobits /second)) = 0.0188 s (time)
01:09:26 <sbp> aha!
01:09:43 <sbp> I'm going to add macros for KB and kbps
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01:12:17 <sbp> .calc 4.7 KB over (2000 kbps)
01:12:18 <phenny> 4.7 KB over (2000 kbps) = 0.0188 s (time)
01:12:21 <sbp> _bjoern: there!
01:12:50 <sbp> sry about the parens
01:13:07 <clsn> .calc 3 millidecades in minutes
01:13:08 <phenny> 3 millidecades in minutes = 15778.46299 minutes
01:13:25 <clsn> .calc pi seconds in nanocenturies
01:13:25 <phenny> pi seconds in nanocenturies = 0.99553 nanocenturies
01:14:25 <clsn> .calc 1 light year in exameters
01:14:25 <phenny> 1 light year in exameters = 0.00946 exameters
01:14:30 <sbp> this feels like a considerable victory
01:14:32 <sbp> we replaced Google
01:15:18 <clsn> 1 yottameter in light years
01:15:22 <clsn> .calc 1 yottameter in light years
01:15:23 <phenny> 1 yottameter in light years = 105702341.054 light years
01:15:30 <sbp> hehe
01:15:34 <xover> .calc $399 in NOK
01:15:38 <phenny> $399 in NOK = $399 (undefined symbol) -&gt; 0.187291 dollar (currency) NOK
01:15:53 <clsn> .calc USD 399 in NOK
01:15:54 <phenny> USD 399 in NOK = 2130.37466 NOK
01:16:10 <sbp> plus Google can't do this:
01:16:12 <sbp> .calc 5 ℎ
01:16:25 <_bjoern> impressive.
01:16:44 <clsn> .calc 1 femtometer in inches
01:16:45 <sbp> xover: note that Google can't cope with "$399" either: http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%24399+in+NOK&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
01:16:46 <aspect> .calc 1 kg C in mol
01:16:57 <sbp> damn, something must've arsed it again
01:17:10 <phenny> 5 ℎ = 3.31303465e-33 m^2 s^-1 kg (angular_momentum)
01:17:12 <clsn> It seems to be stuck. Does it have to be the magic Unicode ℎ
01:17:14 <sbp> oh, just slow
01:17:16 <phenny> aspect: Sorry, can't calculate that.
01:17:17 <aspect> sbp: wait 5 hours :-)
01:17:17 <phenny> 1 femtometer in inches = 1/25400000000000 (approx. 3.937007874015748e-14) inches
01:17:33 <clsn> .calc 1 mol in molecules
01:17:33 <phenny> 1 mol in molecules = 1 mol (substance) -&gt; molecules (undefined symbol) molecules
01:17:42 <sbp> .calc 1 mol
01:17:43 <phenny> 1 mol = 1 mol (substance)
01:18:10 <xover> sbp: So… Glass ceiling, then?
01:18:23 <clsn> .calc 1 mol / 2L in molar
01:18:23 <phenny> clsn: Sorry, can't calculate that.
01:18:28 <clsn> worth a shot.
01:18:36 <sbp> .calc 1 mol in molecules
01:18:37 <phenny> 1 mol in molecules = 1 mol (substance) -> molecules (undefined symbol) molecules
01:18:53 <sbp> xover: well I'm actually quite happy that sites don't assume USD by $...
01:19:03 <sbp> that would be Americentrism too far for me
01:19:03 <xover> .calc 1 phenny in supybot
01:19:05 <phenny> 1 phenny in supybot = phenny (undefined symbol)supybot (undefined symbol) supybot
01:20:26 <xover> .calc £3 in NOK
01:20:28 <phenny> xover: Sorry, can't calculate that.
01:20:39 <xover> .calc £3 in €
01:20:40 <phenny> xover: Sorry, can't calculate that.
01:20:48 <clsn> .calc GBP 3 in NOK
01:20:49 <phenny> GBP 3 in NOK = 3 gigabytesP (undefined symbol) -> 0.187232 dollar (currency) NOK
01:21:00 <sbp> oh dear. heh
01:21:05 <clsn> hmm, that's annoying.
01:21:11 <sbp> no, that's my fault
01:21:12 <sbp> hang on
01:21:15 <xover> .calc 1ml in µl
01:21:15 <phenny> 1ml in µl = 1000 µl
01:21:27 <xover> .sbp++
01:21:34 <xover> .phenny++
01:21:46 <xover> .u PLUS
01:21:47 <phenny> U+2214 DOT PLUS (∔)
01:21:47 <aspect> .calc P(2 sbp in #swhack)
01:21:48 <phenny> P(2 sbp in #swhack) = undef #swhack)
01:22:06 <xover> .phenny∔∔
01:22:17 <sbp> .u plus.
01:22:18 <phenny> U+002B PLUS SIGN (+)
01:22:19 <phenny> U+00B1 PLUS-MINUS SIGN (±)
01:22:19 <phenny> U+02D6 MODIFIER LETTER PLUS SIGN (˖) [...]
01:22:38 <sbp> .calc GBP 3 in NOK
01:22:40 <phenny> GBP 3 in NOK = 31.35461 NOK
01:22:48 <sbp> okay, so I can munge it myself
01:23:06 <aspect> serious question: why does unicode include "umop apisdn" English characters?
01:23:36 <sbp> they're used in IPA and stuff
01:23:41 <clsn> Many/most of them are IPA chars.
01:23:49 <clsn> Some are used in African orthography etc.
01:24:10 <cthompson> IPA? India Pale Ale?
01:24:25 <clsn> I have a script that'll invert any string of ordinary lowercase Latin... :)
01:24:26 <sbp> .wik International Phonetic Alphabet
01:24:27 <phenny> "The International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)[I]| is a system of phonetic notation based on the Latin alphabet, devised by the International Phonetic Association as a standardized representation of the sounds of spoken language.[1]| The IPA is used by linguists, speech [...]" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Phonetic_Alphabet
01:24:37 <cthompson> I prefer my definition
01:24:45 <sbp> .calc £3 in €
01:24:47 <phenny> £3 in € = 3.98739 €
01:24:48 <sbp> xover: there yo go
01:24:50 <aspect> cthompson: a few IPAs and everything's written upside down
01:25:01 <xover> Can we get sensible precision too?
01:25:05 <sbp> .calc $500 in £
01:25:06 <xover> .calc pi
01:25:07 <sbp> define sensible
01:25:08 <phenny> $500 in £ = 255.22966 £
01:25:08 <phenny> pi = 3.14159
01:25:43 <sbp> it doesn't tell me what things are currencies
01:25:46 <xover> For currency conversion, and integer is probably too much precision.
01:25:49 <sbp> so it's hard to know what to round to
01:26:02 <sbp> "and integer"?
01:26:12 <xover> an
01:26:17 <aspect> why should currencies get any different precision?
01:26:20 <sbp> what do you mean by an integer?
01:26:26 <sbp> how can an integer be too much precision
01:26:37 <sbp> a float with 2 d.p. seems like the obvious precision
01:26:55 <xover> The conversion rates fluctuate, and your data is guaranteed to be out of date.
01:27:06 <clsn> I thought € was a generic "some kind of currency" symbol, not a particular one.
01:27:06 <aspect> .calc floor(100 inr in aud)
01:27:10 <phenny> floor(100 inr in aud) = floor (undefined symbol)inr (undefined symbol)aud (undefined symbol)) aud)
01:27:13 <sbp> .u cur sym
01:27:14 <phenny> U+0E3F THAI CURRENCY SYMBOL BAHT (฿)
01:27:18 <sbp> .u u cur sym
01:27:19 <phenny> sbp: Sorry, no results for 'u cur sym'.
01:27:19 <aspect> .calc 3 crore
01:27:20 <phenny> 3 crore = 3 crore (undefined symbol)
01:27:22 <sbp> .u int cur sym
01:27:23 <phenny> sbp: Sorry, no results for 'int cur sym'.
01:27:26 <sbp> .u cur.*sym
01:27:30 <phenny> U+0E3F THAI CURRENCY SYMBOL BAHT (฿)
01:27:31 <phenny> U+17DB KHMER CURRENCY SYMBOL RIEL (៛)
01:27:32 <phenny> U+2393 DIRECT CURRENT SYMBOL FORM TWO (⎓)
01:27:38 <sbp> bah. I think there is one
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01:27:41 <sbp> can't remember what it's called though
01:28:04 <xover> ¥€$
01:28:07 <clsn> Can't you do a reverse lookup on ¤?
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01:28:19 <sbp> .u ¤
01:28:19 <phenny> U+00A4 CURRENCY SIGN (¤)
01:28:20 <aspect> .calc 1 googolplex in pi
01:28:21 <phenny> 1 googolplex in pi = googolplex (undefined symbol) -> 3.141592653589793238 pi
01:28:35 <clsn> .calc 3^^3
01:28:36 <phenny> 3^^3 = ?
01:28:39 <aspect> .calc i pi in e
01:28:40 <phenny> i pi in e = 1.1557273497909217177 i e
01:29:00 <clsn> Dang... sbp, build in support for Knuth's up-arrow notation.
01:29:04 <sbp> heh
01:29:08 <aspect> no, don't
01:29:13 <aspect> .calc sigma 5
01:29:14 <phenny> sigma 5 = 2.8351996824477815901e-7 s^-3 kg K^-4 (unknown unit type)
01:29:17 <xover> .calc 1 googol in pi
01:29:17 <phenny> 1 googol in pi = 3.18309886184e+99 pi
01:29:38 <aspect> .calc s i g m a 5
01:29:39 <xover> .calc 1 googol / 0
01:29:39 <phenny> s i g m a 5 = 1/200 (exactly 0.0050) i m s kg (unknown unit type) a (undefined symbol)
01:29:39 <phenny> 1 googol / 0 = undef
01:29:52 <xover> .calc NaN * Inf
01:29:53 <phenny> NaN * Inf = Inf (undefined symbol)NaN (undefined symbol)
01:30:03 <clsn> wtf is this 1/200 ?
01:30:08 <sbp> see, I knew you'd all start to play with it eventually
01:30:19 <aspect> I don't know what either of those sigmas are
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01:31:05 <aspect> oh, I get the spaced one
01:32:01 <aspect> .calc (x-y)(x+y)
01:32:02 <phenny> (x-y)(x+y) = (x (undefined symbol)y (undefined symbol)x (undefined symbol)y (undefined symbol))
01:33:51 <sbp> .calc (x-y)(x+y)
01:33:52 <phenny> (x-y)(x+y) = (x (?)y (?)x (?)y (?))
01:34:03 <_bjoern> Perhaps we should delay this kind of testing until sbp made the whole thing less broken?
01:34:15 <clsn> What fun would that be?
01:34:17 <aspect> .calc m(c^2)
01:34:17 <phenny> m(c^2) = 89875517873681764 m^3 s^-2 (unknown unit type)
01:34:26 <sbp> how would I make it less broken if you don't test it? :-)
01:34:32 <_bjoern> Well it would be negatively annyoing...
01:34:44 <aspect> .calc 1 kg * 350 m/s in joules
01:34:45 <phenny> aspect: Sorry, can't calculate that.
01:35:06 <aspect> .calc 1 kg * 350 m/s * 350 m/s in joules
01:35:07 <phenny> 1 kg * 350 m/s * 350 m/s in joules = 122500 joules
01:35:22 <aspect> ... I really didn't expect that to work
01:35:44 <sbp> .calc £3 in €
01:35:47 <phenny> £3 in € = 3.98 €
01:35:47 <sbp> .calc 2π
01:35:49 <phenny> 2π = 6.28319
01:35:51 <sbp> these things are now working
01:36:28 <sbp> I suspect it's working for more than 90% of all reasonable use cases now
01:36:50 <aspect> .calc 1 AU in femtometers
01:36:50 <phenny> 1 AU in femtometers = AU (?) -> 1/1000000000000000 (exactly 1.0e-15) m (length) femtometers
01:36:56 <clsn> Too bad only 10% of the uses on #swhack are reasonable.
01:36:59 <sbp> heh, heh
01:38:38 <clsn> .calc 1USD in ¤
01:38:38 <phenny> 1USD in ¤ = ?
01:38:48 <clsn> .calc USD 1 in ¤
01:38:48 <phenny> USD 1 in ¤ = ?
01:38:58 <clsn> .calc USD 1 in GBP
01:38:59 <phenny> USD 1 in GBP = 0.51 GBP
01:39:00 <aspect> .calc 1 oz gold in usd
01:39:00 <phenny> 1 oz gold in usd = 0.0055839074805812375 kg^2 mol^-1 (unknown unit type) -> usd (?) usd
01:39:12 <clsn> Oookay.
01:40:01 <aspect> is square kilograms per mol proportional to carat?
01:40:46 <clsn> Um..? I dunno. Sounds weird though.
01:44:53 <sbp> source is at http://inamidst.com/phenny/modules/calc.py
01:46:01 <clsn> sbp: so I've stumbled across all kinds of blazonry sights... I gotta announce my server Real Soon. Broca's out of touch for a few days, which is probably good, so I have to wait a bit. But what stuff needs to be on the website when it's made public you think?
01:46:20 <aspect> .calc ludicrous speed in c
01:46:21 <phenny> ludicrous speed in c = ludicrous (?) speed (?) -> 299792458 m s^-1 (velocity) c
01:46:26 <sbp> ooh. a few more example would be good
01:46:34 <sbp> aspect: how about not trying ludicrous examples? :-)
01:46:39 <sbp> you can test them on the website, note
01:46:42 <aspect> .calc c in m/s
01:46:42 <phenny> c in m/s = 299792458 m/s
01:46:47 <sbp> http://futureboy.homeip.net/fsp/frink.fsp
01:46:56 <aspect> ok, I'm satisfied for the moment :-)
01:46:59 <sbp> it has a search input where you can test which variables and units etc. are supported
01:47:03 <clsn> Mm... Examples are easy enough to come up with, esp to show off some of the new features added since I made up the last examples.
01:47:13 <sbp> well it's just that the website specifically makes this easier for you
01:47:35 <aspect> but not as much fun as bot abuse!
01:47:45 <sbp> yes, but _bjoern is cranky!
01:47:46 <clsn> And probably better explication of known limitations, so I don't get a million comments on the same six shortcomings.
01:48:23 <sbp> clsn: how about putting some famous blazon examples up?
01:48:47 <clsn> Maybe if I can somehow put up a simplified version of the grammar that semi-literate non-computer-geeky household apes can make sense of, to see the allowed structure.
01:49:14 <clsn> Yeah... though there are only so many "famous" blazons. I found out that Chaucer had per pale argent and gules a bend counterchanged.
01:49:43 <clsn> Found a huge-o book of blazons and family names on Google books last night somewhere.
01:50:02 <sbp> per pale argent and gules a bend counterchanged? will that work in your server?
01:50:15 <clsn> Yes, that'll work.
01:51:20 <sbp> ah, nice
01:51:50 <clsn> And there are all those Round Table ones. SOME of those are doable. The ones which don't have too many creative charges, mostly.
01:52:01 <sbp> heheh
01:53:08 <clsn> Things with just "lions rampant" are okay, but you have to ignore stuff like "langued" and "crowned" and stuff. And for some reason SOME treatments of lions don't work. You can make a lion vair, but not checky I think.
01:53:52 <sbp> instead of basing SVG on XML, they should've just extended blazon
01:53:56 <clsn> One of the samples from the Ancient Rolls of Arms was actually "argent a fesse argent." We're trying to work that out... They think it was an error. One would hope.
01:54:48 <clsn> I looked; it would appear that Monty Python and the Holy Grail didn't use the Round Table blazons for the movie. Bummer. I bet they would have if they'd known about them.
01:54:50 <Monty> Please imitate shake-up?!
01:54:57 <sbp> aw
01:54:58 <clsn> Not you, dear.
01:55:08 <sbp> yeah, that would have been good
01:55:21 <sbp> they had been "discovered" before the movie
01:55:25 <sbp> bit obscure even now though, it seems
01:55:26 <clsn> I remember *someone* in the movie bore something like argent (or?) a shakefork sable.
01:55:37 <clsn> I'm sure, but nobody knew about them. Even now, yes.
01:55:50 <clsn> Sir Robin of course bore a chicken on his shielf.
01:55:52 <clsn> shield.
01:55:54 <sbp> hehe
01:56:48 <clsn> We should probably come up with a shield for pyBlazon. We were going to have a heraldic Python/Pithon on it, but you know, I'm not sure I like that. I like the simple geometric charges anyway.
01:57:22 <sbp> well, here's a challenge:
01:57:30 <sbp> come up with a blazon which is an expansion for pyBlazon
01:57:40 <clsn> Huh?
01:57:42 <sbp> i.e. P... y... b... etc.
01:58:05 <sbp> probably impossible
01:58:08 <clsn> Still not getting it... Oh, you mean a blazon whose initial letters spell out...?
01:58:11 <sbp> yeah
01:58:18 <clsn> Ah. Probably not.
01:58:52 <sbp> but it would be ridiculously cool
01:58:57 <clsn> I'm liking things with like a bunch of escutcheons in some pattern with charges on them in another pattern...
01:59:19 <clsn> e.g. ermine three escutcheons in bend sable each charged with two mullets in bend sinister or
01:59:25 <clsn> (which I believe will work on the server)
01:59:48 <sbp> PUN WARNING
02:00:01 <sbp> I always thought a mullet was a fish. But I guess in heraldry it's a kind of starfish.
02:00:06 <sbp> PUN WARNING (ABOVE)
02:00:44 <clsn> I particularly was looking at stacking up a bunch of shakeforks, looking like a binary tree diagram... :) Esp. since I have an "invisible" charge so I can group them as if they were on something else.
02:00:49 * clsn plays a rimshot.
02:00:52 <sbp> heh, heh
02:00:53 <clsn> Or else a bad hairdo...
02:01:01 <sbp> harder to pun with that
02:01:13 <sbp> how's it pronounced?
02:01:14 <clsn> True. Though in its day a lot of stars wore one.
02:01:15 <sbp> moo-lay?
02:01:57 <clsn> *shrug* I pronounce it "mull-et". That one's likely right. The way I say "AR-jent" and "goolz" maybe less so. :)
02:02:05 <sbp> chuckle
02:02:08 <sbp> to the OED!
02:02:41 <sbp> oh fuckin' 'ell, nine nouns?
02:02:41 <clsn> Thing is, there's the correct pronunciation in the real world, and what's right in heraldry.
02:02:54 <sbp> 1) The fish
02:03:02 <sbp> 2) = Muller
02:03:09 <aspect> .ety mullet
02:03:10 <phenny> "'edible, spiny-finned fish,' c.1440, from Anglo-Fr. molett, from O.Fr. mulet, from M.L. muletus, from L. mulettus, from mullus 'red mullet,' from Gk. myllos a marine fish, related to melos 'black' (see melanin)." - http://etymonline.com/?term=mullet
02:03:20 <sbp> 3) Heraldic star, whoo.
02:03:23 <clsn> This is typical English-trying-to-be-French, like some legal terms. So it winds up being really oddly pronounced.
02:03:34 <sbp> Brit. /{sm}m{revv}l{shtibar}t/, U.S. /{sm}m{schwa}l{schwa}t/
02:03:36 <sbp> well that's fucked up
02:04:07 <clsn> The English legal dialect of French was mutually unintelligeable with French AND with English.
02:04:10 <sbp> 4) = Mullein
02:04:24 <sbp> 5) Pincers or tweezers
02:04:39 <sbp> (Ben Jonson used it in that sense)
02:04:47 <sbp> 6) The puffin
02:05:06 <sbp> 7) Some part of a musket barrel
02:05:23 <sbp> 8)  A piece of wood containing a groove for testing the thickness of panel edges
02:05:50 <sbp> 9) A hairstyle
02:05:57 <sbp> The Nine Nouns of Mullet
02:07:50 <sbp> yeah, I took that out
02:08:11 <_bjoern> .gcs "lust slave" "love slave"
02:08:12 <phenny> "love slave" (794,000), "lust slave" (1,320)
02:08:22 <sbp> see? isn't that easier to type?
02:08:26 <_bjoern> NO
02:08:27 <sbp> don't your fingers feel happier?
02:08:45 <_bjoern> I had to think quite hard to remember what insane weird letter combination you picked.
02:08:49 <sbp> don't they just ejaculate through their pores with the delightful liquid of efficiency?
02:08:54 <sbp> heh
02:08:59 <clsn> or ten shakeforks sable looks cool, partly due to some bad scaling...
02:09:03 <sbp> gc + s. googlecount + s. googlecounts
02:09:22 <_bjoern> Yeah, you'll be typing that a lot to fresh swhacklings.
02:10:19 <clsn> OK, gotta stop. later.
02:10:32 <sbp> .title http://www.epsrc.ac.uk/
02:10:36 <phenny> sbp: EPSRC Website
02:10:38 <sbp> there, the .title redirect "bug" is fixed
02:10:45 <sbp> c'ya clsn!
02:11:02 <sbp> . o O { .explaingcs? }
02:11:11 <_bjoern> How about renaming it to .tl ?
02:11:14 <sbp> tl?
02:11:34 <_bjoern> It's the happy fingers pore ejaculation version of .title.
02:11:40 <sbp> hehe
02:11:52 <sbp> surely that'd be .ti
02:12:09 <kpreid> .ti-dye
02:12:15 <sbp> .nu
02:12:16 * aspect votes for .tit
02:12:22 <sbp> mmm... .tit
02:12:23 <kpreid> .tl;dr
02:12:36 <_bjoern> .tiddle of course.
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02:22:38 <darobin> I am the new twe! The uber Monty
02:22:41 <Monty> IMHO, windy audacious coloured eats guilty warm ancestry.
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02:24:34 <perigrin> darobin, hit on mekano-pip
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02:36:56 <Arnia> mekano-pip: hit on me
02:36:56 <mekano-pip> me: SHALL WE GO BACK T MUH HOSPITAL AND GIVE MUH RATTY DOG HAIRY LOVIN?
02:38:28 <sbp> ...hehe
02:40:08 <sbp> _bjoern:
02:40:09 <sbp> .swhack hello
02:40:10 <phenny> sbp: http://swhack.com/logs/2008-02-18#T23-40-31
02:40:15 <sbp> .swhack possum
02:40:16 <darobin> mekano-pip: you're such a lame twe you sound like Monty
02:40:20 <mekano-pip> darobin: THXZ AND YOO R DELITEFUL PERSON 2. AM I LAME TWE ME SOUND LIEK MONTY? I DONT KNOW.
02:40:21 <Monty> hehe
02:40:22 <Monty> A vampire, a bot. Say ".commands" to test them the loneliest number of Americans think the connections
02:40:25 <phenny> sbp: http://swhack.com/logs/2007-08-04#T19-41-28
02:40:38 <sbp> a somewhat faster .swhack
02:40:52 <sbp> still not superfast, but better than it was
02:40:57 * Arnia plays the Doctor Who theme (2008)
02:41:05 <darobin> did I really say that one day?
02:41:51 <Arnia> Apprenticely so
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02:42:50 <_bjoern> A .swhack turning up terrifying results
02:43:45 <Arnia> _bjoern: whodathunkit
02:43:45 * dahut hides from the chaotic noise
02:43:59 <Arnia> dahut: ah put a sock on
02:44:02 <_bjoern> <-
02:44:13 <Arnia> ->
02:44:29 <Arnia> CLASH OF THE ARROWS
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02:52:14 <Monty> hi cre8radix|off, how ya doing?
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03:04:41 <xover> Meh. 10.5.2 broke Time Machine.
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03:32:05 <_bjoern> Monty, what have you done to twe?
03:32:06 <Monty> with phenny2 Hi gorgeous.
03:32:38 <_bjoern> You conspired with phenny2 and killed twe?
03:32:46 <sbp> he did *something* with phenny2:
03:32:47 <sbp> 15:53 <cre8radix> man oh man, monty, my system needs a reconfig
03:32:47 <sbp> 15:53 <Monty> Certainly, a shower with phenny2. Good beta testing, and GB
03:32:48 <Monty> ah, nice
03:32:50 <Monty> Please don't cuddle impotent AGP port.
03:33:07 <cre8radix> hrhr
03:33:15 <cre8radix> gets even better, Monty
03:33:17 <_bjoern> perverse bot love.
03:33:19 <Monty> IMHO, bubbling butterscotch Barra fantasises about castrating EPOC deodorant...?
03:37:16 <xover> I wonder, wat is the age of consent for bots?
03:39:17 *** glen_quagmire (n=glen_qua@pool-68-237-83-66.ny325.east.verizon.net) has joined #swhack
03:39:18 <Monty> But what does glen_quagmire have to do with the price of fish?
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03:50:00 <_bjoern> bot procreation tends to be terminal to humanoids.
03:50:19 *** sbp changed the topic to: "<_bjoern> bot procreation tends to be terminal to humanoids."
03:50:26 <sbp> you're just saying that so you have more for yourself
03:51:02 <_bjoern> At the moment I have less than one lust bot.
03:54:18 <sbp> hmm, a third of a lust bot wouldn't be very pretty
03:54:22 <sbp> unless it's the right third
03:54:49 <nslater> sbp: just thought...
03:55:00 <nslater> sbp: dont write setup.py on my account, i can do without it :)
03:55:02 <_bjoern> You take the right parts, I'll take the middle ones?
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03:55:03 <Monty> it's cr`x!
03:55:11 <sbp> can you?
03:55:16 <sbp> that would be splendid
03:55:20 <nslater> sure
03:55:21 <sbp> because I hate setup.py. heh
03:55:28 <sbp> though really I should write one anyway
03:55:35 <sbp> so people finding the package can install it if they want
03:55:40 <nslater> i have to write a makefile anyway, and it's not like phenny is that complex
03:55:45 <sbp> yeah
03:55:46 <nslater> move this file here, move this file there etc
03:55:46 <sbp> cool
03:56:22 <sbp> cr`x: .calc here using Frink now, by the way
03:56:29 <sbp> s/using/uses/
03:56:59 <cr`x> nice!
03:58:28 <glen_quagmire> .ety forth
03:58:29 <phenny> UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc3 in position 9: ordinal not in range(128) (file "/var/www/inamidst.com/htdocs/phenny/modules/etymology.py", line 73, in etymology)
03:58:52 <sbp> sigh, hang on...
04:00:33 <sbp> .ety forth
04:00:33 <phenny> "O.E. forðian 'forward, onward,' perf. of for(e), from P.Gmc. *furtha- (cf. O.N. forð, Du. voort, Ger. fort), from PIE *prto-, from the root of fore (q.v.)." - http://etymonline.com/?term=forth
04:01:03 <glen_quagmire> oh unicode: ð
04:01:53 <cr`x> you're rejiggering, sbp?
04:01:58 <sbp> aye
04:02:03 <glen_quagmire> what is antinome of forth ?
04:02:16 <cr`x> .w antinome
04:02:17 <sbp> mainly rejiggered, in fact. is mostly done
04:02:26 <sbp> .w is one of those things which is not yet done
04:02:31 <cr`x> whatdja do?
04:02:31 <sbp> lemme put in a note about that... :-)
04:02:32 <cr`x> heh?
04:02:36 <cr`x> er… heh.
04:03:23 <sbp> this is mainly because I want to use something in place of it which sucks less
04:03:26 <sbp> I hate wordnet
04:03:41 <sbp> .w test
04:03:41 <cr`x> i like the IDEA of wordnet
04:03:41 <phenny> sbp: .w has not yet been ported to the new phenny codebase, sorry!
04:04:25 <nslater> sbp: is phenny's google search biased some how to swhack?
04:04:47 <nslater> sbp: i just did a search in #couchdb for "javascript browser shell" and it gave me a link to the swhack archives
04:04:50 <sbp> nope
04:04:55 <nslater> sbp: wow, what a coincidence
04:05:01 <sbp> nope, that's just because we rule
04:05:10 <nslater> but, doing that search on google i cant see swhack anywhere on the front page
04:05:14 <nslater> i think you're a dirty liar
04:05:32 <sbp> .g javascript browser shell
04:05:33 <phenny> sbp: http://croczilla.com/jssh
04:05:35 <sbp> .g "javascript browser shell"
04:05:36 <phenny> sbp: http://swhack.com/logs/2007-05-21
04:05:44 <sbp> try adding the quotes
04:06:04 <sbp> http://www.google.co.uk/search?q="javascript+browser+shell"
04:06:06 <nslater> wow
04:06:10 <sbp> I see swhack.com as the top result
04:06:13 <nslater> coincidence or what
04:06:17 <sbp> 09:31:11 <bjoern_> I would like a good JavaScript/Browser shell
04:06:19 <sbp> ay
04:06:21 <sbp> ...e
04:06:29 <nslater> h
04:06:32 <nslater> ...e
04:06:35 <nslater> ...h
04:06:35 <cr`x> so what are the features of this new and improved phenny?
04:06:45 <sbp> well, it's faster for a start
04:07:01 <sbp> the search and calc modules are now public since they use less sensitive sources
04:07:22 <sbp> the .cp, .pc, and .unicode functions have been folded into one command: .u
04:07:34 <sbp> the modules API is much, much sleeker and easier to use for module developers
04:07:44 <sbp> I've fixed a few bugs along the way
04:07:53 <sbp> it has a new flood protection system which is smoother and simpler
04:08:04 <sbp> the configuration and running of the bot is a lot more straightforward now
04:08:21 <sbp> you can exclude modules and use modules from an "optional modules" directory
04:08:21 <sbp> and so on
04:08:26 <sbp> lots of little things
04:08:37 <sbp> oh, and it's licensed under an open source and free software license now
04:09:22 * nslater grins
04:09:27 <nslater> rms would be proud
04:09:31 <sbp> and esr
04:09:39 <nslater> esr can foad ;)
04:09:52 <sbp> he does the first bit a lot, so I hear tell
04:10:07 <nslater> .g esr sex tips
04:10:08 <phenny> nslater: http://files.samhart.net/humor/IRC/ESR-Sex-Tips.html
04:10:14 <nslater> .g esr sex tips catb
04:10:15 <phenny> nslater: http://catb.org/~esr/writings/sextips/
04:10:20 <nslater> thats more like it
04:10:33 <nslater> have you read esr's sex tips?
04:10:39 <nslater> talk about disturbing...
04:11:12 <nslater> "Never hit a woman with the back of your gun... unless you really want to score."
04:11:21 <sbp> I'm aware of it
04:24:26 <_bjoern> .gc "very nutritious"
04:24:26 <phenny> "very nutritious": 134,000
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04:33:59 <sbp> I broke phenny again
04:34:04 <sbp> that stupid decode bug
04:35:32 * Arnia decodes sbp into EBDIC
04:36:18 <sbp> thanks, I needed that
04:36:46 <Arnia> Any time... found an interesting argument against relativism by Putnam
04:36:54 <sbp> oh?
04:38:14 <Arnia> Basically it goes 'if relativism were true then there is no distinction between someone being right and someone thinking they are right and so all meaning would collapse into mere grunting'
04:38:36 <Arnia> ahem, that's a little uncharitable... but that's what I glean from it
04:39:10 <sbp> so you don't think it's particularly valid then?
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04:39:33 <Arnia> His concern is that there is, in a relativist view, no difference between asserting or thinking and making noises or producing mental images
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04:40:04 <Arnia> and this means that he isn't a thinker at all but rather a 'mere' animal
04:40:15 <sbp> ...
04:40:28 <_bjoern> This starts feeling like a Phenny 2.0 Beta...
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04:41:42 <Arnia> Oh, it basically devolves into an argument about identity
04:42:01 <Arnia> But then again Putnam nails that coffin himself a hundred pages previous
04:42:25 <Arnia> So it is a little difficult to see how he can lick the back of his head
04:42:42 <_bjoern> long tongue.
04:42:51 <Arnia> He is a giraffe
04:43:05 <Arnia> procto: you'd agree, right?
04:45:18 <kpreid> Arnia: What *can't* you express as an argument about identity?
04:49:05 <Arnia> kpreid: hm, yes
04:49:16 * Arnia reduces Monty to an argument about identity
04:49:16 <Monty> USD 399 in place names
04:49:25 <_bjoern> That in itself is an argument about identity.
04:49:49 <sbp> aha! found the problem
04:50:21 <Arnia> sbp: identity?
04:50:28 <sbp> no, in phenny I mean
04:50:46 <sbp> phenny 2.0 beta, that is
04:50:51 <nslater> Arnia: surely an assertion is only a grunt until someone interprets it?
04:51:09 <nslater> Arnia: and hence the only difference is in the eye of the beholder
04:51:22 <Arnia> nslater: I don't deny that. Which is why I call myself a relativist
04:51:56 <nslater> Oh, heh... was just trying to parse his view point. :)
04:52:06 <Arnia> I believe that truth is meaningless as a hearer-independent concept
04:52:15 <nslater> I agree with you.
04:52:48 <Arnia> An I'm perfectly allowed to make that statement, because I don't claim to be making a statement about truth in a hearer-independent world
04:53:01 <Arnia> (which seems to be Putnam's biggest argument against relativity)
04:53:13 <nslater> hearer-independent?
04:53:23 <nslater> hearer?
04:53:29 <nslater> .wik hearer
04:53:51 <Arnia> Well, it isn't so much important for understanding what is spoken. It is more important what is heard
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04:53:57 <Arnia> And who hears it
04:54:04 <nslater> oh, hear-er
04:54:05 <nslater> heh
04:54:51 <nslater> but even if you were claiming to make a statement in a hearer-independant world it makes no difference because the meaning or truth of that statement is up to the herer to ascribe
04:56:35 <Arnia> yes yes yes
04:56:35 *** bear_afk is now known as bear
04:56:41 <Arnia> But Putnam's argument is quite circular
04:56:52 * Arnia will write a more detailed critique some other time
04:57:00 <Arnia> Right now I'll think
04:57:06 <sbp> okay, looks to be fixed
04:57:08 <nslater> or, i guess what im trying to say is that if meaning only exists to the observer then any logical inconsistancies or paradoxes you find are self created, and hence pretty meaningless to anyone but you and your broken interpretation
04:58:30 <Arnia> nslater: yes, but the argument is that for us to talk to one another we have to accept an external notion of truth...
04:58:53 <Arnia> Personally I believe this has been shown to be false (not least by Putnam himself in this selfsame book)
04:59:04 <nslater> have you read much wittgenstein?
04:59:17 <Arnia> For a start, it completely misses the point about emergence
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04:59:31 <darobin> phenny!!!!!!
04:59:43 <phenny> darobin!
04:59:43 <Arnia> nslater: a bit. Putnam was just quoting Wittgenstein's argument against relativism too
04:59:48 <nslater> i dont claim to fully understand wittgenstein but from what i gather he argues that meaning in communication comes from shared experience of the world and not a concept of external truth
05:00:16 <Arnia> He's anti-realist, not relativist according to Putnam
05:00:18 <nslater> so when you say "im hungry" i understand you because i know what i would be feeling to say the same
05:00:34 <Arnia> Oh well... I'm giving up here cos I'm tired and want to get some food
05:00:38 <nslater> hehe
05:00:43 <Arnia> (ironically given that example)
05:00:44 <darobin> nslater: yeah, but that hits up against the problem of radical translation, as seen in Quine
05:00:53 <nslater> Quine?
05:00:59 <Arnia> W.V. Quine
05:01:00 <darobin> .wik Quine
05:01:00 <phenny> "Willard Van Orman Quine - American philosopher and logician" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quine
05:01:03 <nslater> also, whats radical translation?
05:01:12 <darobin> .wik radical translation
05:01:12 <phenny> "Radical translation in philosophy is the situation in which a linguist is attempting to translate a completely unknown language, which is unrelated to his own, and is therefore forced to rely solely on the observed behavior of its speakers in relation to their environment." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_translation
05:01:15 <nslater> quine as in quines (computer programs)?
05:01:28 <darobin> he also invented quines
05:01:35 <nslater> right
05:01:35 <darobin> (IIRC)
05:01:50 <Arnia> Quine is a pragmatist too
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05:02:03 <darobin> you can have a shared experience but still have trouble communicating
05:02:09 <lordi> didn't he say "to be is to be a variable that is bound" ?
05:02:14 <nslater> radical translation, thats interesting, but still i think that you only hit problems if you take wittgenstein too literally. i.e. by observing another human i can "figure out" what he must be feeling
05:02:26 <nslater> you cant say the same for translating a lions roar, for example
05:02:37 <darobin> for instance, if there's a rabbit running in the prairie and you point to it saying some word, I can never know if you mean rabbit, rabbitness, etc
05:02:38 <Arnia> I'm an embodied philosopher... and one with a belief in complex truth values (higher-order)
05:02:59 <sbp> darobin: in that case, no babies can learn languages
05:03:05 <Arnia> So I'm an embodied relativist pragmatist
05:03:08 <nslater> sbp: good point
05:03:34 <sbp> you might not be able to pin down precisely what is meant, but you get a good idea
05:03:34 <nslater> which is why i think that its possible to infer meaning through guesswork of shared experience
05:03:34 <darobin> that's the point! Quine proves that we can learn languages, but our understanding is idiosyncrtic
05:03:34 <Arnia> sbp: Embodiment solves that one, without letting total access to external reality leak into the semantics
05:03:40 <sbp> and the more good ideas you build it...
05:03:42 <sbp> aha
05:03:45 <darobin> exactly
05:03:57 <nslater> but not of this assumes some external truth as Arnia originally mentioned
05:04:01 <darobin> there is no truth, only good enough shared stuff
05:04:01 * Arnia throws Popper at nslater
05:04:06 * nslater catches
05:04:18 * Arnia throws Carnap at sbp
05:04:23 * darobin watches nslater vasodilate
05:04:37 <Arnia> darobin: nice statement of my philosophy
05:04:41 * nslater defenestrates Arnia
05:04:46 <darobin> hah!
05:05:01 <Arnia> I was a member of the Hatfield Midget Defenestration Society once
05:05:07 <sbp> or truth can't be shared
05:05:08 <nslater> mwahahaha
05:05:15 <Arnia> We had a Hatfield Midget Enclosure and everything
05:05:20 <Arnia> nslater: you must remember the guy...
05:05:41 <nslater> is that a society for defenestrating hatfield midgests or a society for hatfield members that defenestrate midgets?
05:05:44 <darobin> sbp: right. It's mine. ALL MINE YOU HEAR!
05:05:51 <Arnia> sbp: it is incommensurable as the pragmatists call it... but Putnam finds that offensive
05:06:04 <Arnia> nslater: Society for defenestrating Hatfield midgets
05:06:13 <nslater> very good
05:06:17 <nslater> yes, i remember the guy
05:06:17 <Arnia> Actually, all Hatfielders, but particularly the Hatfield midget
05:06:19 <sbp> <Mulder> THE TRUTH... IS INCOMMENSURABLE
05:06:28 <nslater> yes, all hatfielders need to be defenestrated
05:06:38 <nslater> what is the collage moto again?
05:06:46 <nslater> "oh hello, im better than you" or something
05:06:53 <Arnia> nslater: We had that enclosure in 2 Stockton Road and we were so proud
05:07:00 <nslater> :D
05:07:02 * Arnia enjoyed living on the science site
05:07:10 <sbp> Vel Primus Vel cum Primis
05:07:43 <sbp> it's not necessarily that Hatfield are better than you
05:07:50 <sbp> just that they were first. and are better
05:07:55 <nslater> ha
05:08:16 <Arnia> They were second though
05:08:20 <darobin> phenny: "Vel Primus Vel cum Primis"?
05:08:22 <phenny> darobin: I think it's Latin, but I can't translate that language.
05:08:26 <Arnia> After University College
05:08:29 <darobin> not bad!
05:08:47 <Arnia> and we were third, but aren't a college so must be better ;)
05:08:50 <sbp> yeah. I think it's an hilarious motto
05:08:57 <sbp> "WE WERE FIRST (or second)"
05:08:58 * Arnia pelts the hill with grapeshot
05:09:03 <sbp> like, I can imagine Buzz Aldrin having it
05:09:25 <darobin> all mottoes should be like that
05:09:38 <darobin> "Dieu est mon roi (ou pas)."
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05:11:39 <darobin> in the same vein I like that of the city of Paris, Fluctuat Nec Mergitur
05:11:53 <darobin> the Seine is so not a rough boat ride
05:12:47 <darobin> you could ride it all the way in a largish salad dish and not mergitur
05:13:08 <sbp> en Anglais por les rosbiftars sil vous plait mon amis
05:13:13 <sbp> s/por/pour/
05:13:16 <_bjoern> nu
05:13:20 <sbp> s/rosbiftars/rosbiftards/
05:14:44 <darobin> what do you want in Anglish?
05:14:51 <sbp> heh
05:14:54 <sbp> nipperlings
05:15:12 <sbp> Angleterrese
05:15:25 <darobin> .gc rosbiftards
05:15:26 <phenny> rosbiftards: 0
05:15:30 <darobin> neat!
05:15:53 <sbp> funnily enough that sentence had basically all of the French words I know
05:16:00 <sbp> so I had to make one up just to pad it out
05:16:46 <darobin> hehehe
05:17:08 <sbp> actually, some more is coming back to me
05:17:18 <sbp> "un diabolo menthe!"
05:17:19 <nslater> the only french i can remember is "Le singe est sur la branche."
05:17:30 <darobin> in addition to the corrections you already made, it's "s'il" (short for "si il") and "ami" (singular)
05:17:31 <sbp> "give me a crazy mint licquer damnit!"
05:17:42 <sbp> shouldn't there be a circumflex in there too?
05:17:47 <sbp> voûs or somesuch?
05:17:49 <sbp> s'îl?
05:17:53 <sbp> plaît?
05:17:55 <darobin> nslater: you're not the only person I know to recall something about monkeys...
05:18:06 <sbp> oh, branche reminds me of manche
05:18:06 <nslater> darobin: from watching too much eddie izzard
05:18:09 <sbp> which I know is sleeve
05:18:10 <darobin> no, no circumflex
05:18:16 <sbp> no circumflex? aw man
05:18:30 <darobin> and a diabolo isn't a liqueur!
05:18:45 <nslater> sounds like a pretty sweet liqueur
05:18:46 <darobin> it's lemonade + syrup
05:18:50 <nslater> el diabolo
05:18:57 <sbp> so I can say "der teufel! I 'aav spilled ma un diabolo menthe on ma manche"
05:19:05 <nslater> phenny: "el diabolo"?
05:19:09 <sbp> oh. well it is when you pour some vodka in it
05:19:24 <nslater> phenny is slow
05:19:27 <darobin> heh
05:19:27 <phenny> nslater: "diabolo" (es)
05:19:33 <nslater> i didnt ask that
05:19:43 <darobin> it's all she knows
05:19:44 <sbp> heh. Swhack: language lessons for the insane
05:19:46 <nslater> i know its spanish
05:20:02 <nslater> phenny: "tengo un diabolo grande"?
05:20:04 <phenny> nslater: "I have diabolo great" (es)
05:20:08 <darobin> phenny: "Le singe est sur la branche."?
05:20:10 <phenny> darobin: "The monkey is on the branch." (fr)
05:20:11 <nslater> hum
05:20:16 <sbp> Monty: teach me some bloody Italian you goatfucker
05:20:17 <Monty> screw you
05:20:22 <nslater> lol
05:20:31 <darobin> phenny: "Un diabolo menthe s'il vous plait, garçon."?
05:20:35 <nslater> phenny: "Jeg heter Noah."?
05:20:37 <phenny> UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character u'\xe7' in position 38: ordinal not in range(128) (file "/var/www/inamidst.com/htdocs/phenny/web.py", line 31, in post)
05:20:38 <phenny> nslater: I think it's Norwegian, but I can't translate that language.
05:20:41 <nslater> fail
05:20:46 <sbp> woah, major lag
05:21:01 <nslater> phenny: "God Jul!"
05:21:02 <darobin> phenny: "Un diabolo menthe s'il vous plait, garcon."?
05:21:03 <nslater> oops
05:21:04 <nslater> phenny: "God Jul!"?
05:21:05 <sbp> sweet, translate is fucked
05:21:06 <phenny> nslater: I think it's Danish, but I can't translate that language.
05:21:07 <sbp> fixing
05:21:13 <Arnia> Can we have an Anglish morphology module for phenny?
05:21:20 <phenny> darobin: "A mint and lemonade please, boy." (fr)
05:21:20 <sbp> if you write it, ayup!
05:21:24 <Arnia> bah
05:21:25 <nslater> phenny: "Ubuntu"?
05:21:27 <darobin> hey, good!
05:21:28 <phenny> nslater: I think it's Malay, but I can't translate that language.
05:21:39 * Arnia nukes sbp for suggesting he writes code
05:21:43 <bancus> phenny: "ko ko gletu"?
05:21:46 <phenny> bancus: I think it's Slovenian, but I can't translate that language.
05:21:53 <bancus> Heh.
05:22:04 <sbp> sry, but it's either u or me!
05:22:08 <lordi> phenny, "Guten Tag"?
05:22:10 <phenny> lordi: I think it's Norwegian, but I can't translate that language.
05:22:12 <bancus> phenny: "le do mamta cu vecnu lo nu gletu lo xarju"?
05:22:14 <lordi> wrong
05:22:14 <phenny> bancus: I think it's Slovenian, but I can't translate that language.
05:22:21 <bancus> Huh. STill Slovenian.
05:22:25 <nslater> phenny: "kjaeresten min"
05:22:28 <nslater> phenny: "kjaeresten min"?>
05:22:31 <nslater> error
05:22:36 <Arnia> So the conclusion is that Lojban is Slovenian in disguise?
05:22:40 <nslater> phenny: "kjaeresten min"?
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05:22:41 <bancus> Apparently.
05:22:44 <darobin> phenny: "OMG! I maded a cookie but you eated it, LOLZ!"
05:22:47 * Arnia wonders if the Slavs are particularly logical
05:22:49 <phenny> nslater: I think it's Danish, but I can't translate that language.
05:22:50 <nslater> danja: your site is broke
05:22:50 <darobin> phenny: "OMG! I maded a cookie but you eated it, LOLZ!"?
05:22:53 <phenny> darobin: "OMG! As for me Plaetzchen maded, that, LOLZ eated!" (en-unmangled)
05:23:08 <darobin> HAHA!
05:23:10 <sbp> DON'T EATED MY PLAETZCHEN
05:23:11 <danja> nslater, still...bugger, I thought it was ok again
05:23:12 <bancus> phenny: "u r dum"?
05:23:15 <phenny> bancus: I think it's Polish, but I can't translate that language.
05:23:24 <nslater> danja: oh, it might be fixed, ive not checked since this morning
05:23:25 <bancus> Don't worry, phenny. I can't translate it either.
05:23:26 <darobin> phenny: "Je t'aime, Monty"?
05:23:28 <_bjoern> Let me introduce the new and improved Phenny 2.0 Beta.
05:23:28 <phenny> darobin: "I love you, Monty" (fr)
05:23:28 <Monty> Yay, got that coffin himself in count)
05:23:33 <Monty> that's just ejaculate through indexing and #moose and gules a blazon whose initial letters spell out...?
05:23:45 <bancus> phenny: "biiru nihon onegaishimasu"?
05:23:45 <Arnia> phenny, "was da man in da howse"?
05:23:47 <phenny> Arnia: "which there one into there howse" (de)
05:23:48 <phenny> bancus: I think it's Finnish, but I can't translate that language.
05:23:54 <sbp> phenny: "Un diabolo menthe s'il vous plait, garçon."?
05:23:55 <phenny> AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'encode' (file "/var/www/inamidst.com/htdocs/phenny/modules/translate.py", line 71, in tr)
05:23:55 <bancus> Hm. No romaji, I see.
05:23:56 <darobin> talk about love and Monty goes all out on ejaculation
05:23:58 <Monty> Apparently, you depend on Debian...
05:24:00 <sbp> ah fuck
05:24:08 <nslater> danja: yup, still broke
05:24:15 <danja> yup :-(
05:24:18 <bancus> phenny: "浴びます。"?
05:24:18 <phenny> AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'encode' (file "/var/www/inamidst.com/htdocs/phenny/modules/translate.py", line 71, in tr)
05:24:25 <sbp> hang on, fixing it
05:24:30 <bancus> oh.
05:24:35 <darobin> .mangle I love you Monty
05:24:39 <Monty> skipping mutant candles reminds me of fearsome familiar jelly >:)
05:24:40 <sbp> phenny: "Un diabolo menthe s'il vous plait, garçon."?
05:24:43 <phenny> sbp: "A mint and lemonade please, boy." (fr)
05:24:47 <sbp> .mangle is out of action for a bit
05:24:51 <bancus> phenny: "浴びます。"?
05:24:51 <sbp> phenny: "浴びます。"?
05:24:55 <phenny> sbp: "It pours." (ja)
05:24:55 <phenny> bancus: "It pours." (ja)
05:24:58 <bancus> Heh.
05:24:58 <darobin> ah, shame
05:25:05 <bancus> Close enough, I guess.
05:25:08 <sbp> phenny: "lon bok sai n'goy pk'fan djizingo fok bai p'soy"?
05:25:16 <nslater> phenny: "sumomo"?
05:25:36 * Arnia doesn't depend on Debian
05:25:36 <Arnia> and I converted someone to OS X last night without intending to...
05:25:36 <Arnia> I was playing with Quartz Composer in the pub, and they saw it and fell in love...
05:25:36 <phenny> sbp: I think it's Indonesian, which I can't translate.
05:25:36 <phenny> nslater: I think it's Lithuanian, which I can't translate.
05:25:36 <bancus> phenny: "weruffa seethu wizzer"?
05:25:36 <phenny> bancus: I think it's Maltese, which I can't translate.
05:25:50 <darobin> what heuristic does she use for language?
05:26:08 <bancus> phenny: "此処です、でも働きます"?
05:26:09 <sbp> phenny: "buzzo guzzo my spizzlebody! what a guffawing prezbobble of a dingus!"?
05:26:11 <phenny> UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xe6 in position 10: ordinal not in range(128) (file "/var/www/inamidst.com/htdocs/phenny/modules/translate.py", line 85, in tr)
05:26:16 <phenny> sbp: "The guzzo mine of spizzlebody buzzo! Which for laughing the prezbobble sound end whether 1 dingus of!" (en-unmangled)
05:26:20 <sbp> darobin: she uses XCRE's language checker
05:26:29 <bancus> Huh.
05:26:29 * sbp fixes that line 85 thing...
05:28:02 <bancus> Anyone know of a way to rig up Mail.app so that you can teach a remote SpamAssassin server?
05:28:55 <bancus> http://www.symphonious.net/2006/11/13/integrating-spamassassin-and-mailapp/ will work
05:29:14 <sbp> phenny: "此処です、でも働きます"?
05:29:15 <phenny> sbp: "It is the 此 place, with it works" (ja)
05:29:17 <sbp> there we go
05:29:19 <nslater> bancus: if you can export spam messages to a folder in mbox format you can use a cronjob to pass the messages to spamassassin
05:30:15 <bancus> Yeah, that's what that site suggested.
05:31:12 <bancus> sbp: A better trannslation is "I'm here, but I'm working."
05:31:17 <bancus> Of course, it left the subject up to context.
05:31:27 <bancus> But I find it interesting that it didn't understand "here"
05:31:50 <sbp> it just uses Altavista's Babelfish
05:32:00 <bancus> Literally "Here is, but work."
05:32:24 <sbp> the genius of it is that it chains a popular language detector with a popular translator
05:32:34 <bancus> Yeah.
05:32:48 <bancus> I think I have another away message translated.
05:32:52 <sbp> supports unicode quotes now too
05:32:58 <sbp> phenny: “ma chien”?
05:32:59 <phenny> sbp: "but chien" (it)
05:33:03 <bancus> phenny: "寝ます。"?
05:33:05 <phenny> bancus: "You sleep." (ja)
05:33:10 <bancus> Near enough.
05:33:27 <bancus> I wouldn't expect machine translation to be able to pick up the subject by context.
05:33:51 <bancus> phenny: "昼ご飯を食べます。"?
05:33:53 <phenny> bancus: "The noon boiled rice is eaten." (ja)
05:33:56 <sbp> I would. freaking slacking machines
05:33:57 <bancus> Heh.
05:34:08 <bancus> Quite literal, but quite correct.
05:34:21 <bancus> "Eating lunch." would be a colloquial English translation.
05:34:30 <sbp> phenny: "こてこてと鍋かけし若菜哉"?
05:34:32 <phenny> sbp: "The iron iron and the pot it does to apply, Wakana 哉" (ja)
05:34:59 <sbp> phenny: "春雨や火もおもしろきなべの尻"?
05:35:01 <phenny> sbp: "Spring also the rain and the fire come funny, the rear end of the pan" (ja)
05:35:09 <sbp> better
05:35:13 <darobin> phenny: "mon chien"?
05:35:14 <phenny> darobin: "my dog" (fr)
05:35:18 <sbp> oh thox
05:35:30 <bancus> phenny: "la chat petit"?
05:35:33 <phenny> bancus: "the small cat" (fr)
05:35:51 <sbp> <Lugash> IS CAT
05:35:53 <darobin> phenny: "la petite chatte ou le petit chat"?
05:35:54 <phenny> darobin: "the small she-cat or the kitten" (fr)
05:35:57 <sbp> now wait
05:36:01 <sbp> <Lugash> IS DOG NOW
05:36:03 <sbp> that's it
05:36:05 <sbp> s/now/no/
05:36:12 <sbp> I'm too tired for this crap
05:36:15 <sbp> and it's time for the Simpsons
05:36:27 <darobin> phenny: "je te lèche la chatte."?
05:36:28 <phenny> darobin: "I lick you the she-cat." (fr)
05:36:33 <bancus> phenny: "Meine muese ist heiss wie ein Ofen."?
05:36:34 <phenny> bancus: "My muese is hot like a furnace." (de)
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05:36:35 <darobin> heh, not really, no
05:37:00 <darobin> phenny: "Muese"?
05:37:02 <phenny> darobin: "Muese" (es)
05:37:09 <darobin> phenny: de "Muese"?
05:37:10 <phenny> darobin: "Muese" (es)
05:37:14 <darobin> mmm
05:37:18 <bancus> phenny: "Voulez-vous couchez avec moi, ce soir?"?
05:37:20 <phenny> bancus: "Do you want sleep with me, this evening?" (fr)
05:37:22 <bancus> Probably butchered the spelling.
05:37:24 <bancus> Or not.
05:37:33 <darobin> she does good, considering you did
05:37:40 <darobin> it's coucher
05:37:45 <bancus> Heh.
05:37:55 <bancus> Damned French spelling.
05:38:07 <bancus> phenny: "Voulez-vous coucher avec moi, ce soir?"?
05:38:11 <phenny> bancus: "Do you want to sleep with me, this evening?" (fr)
05:38:25 <darobin> the diff between r and z is that between infinitive and second person plural, which is quite important :)
05:38:33 <bancus> Heh.
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05:43:11 <Monty> yo iand!
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05:46:38 <iand> yo Monty
05:46:38 <Monty> :D
05:46:43 <iand> :D
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05:56:43 <bancus> .seen crschmidt
05:56:44 <phenny> Sorry, I haven't seen crschmidt around.
05:56:55 <bancus> phenny, tell crschmidt to contact me when he gets back
05:56:55 <phenny> bancus: I'll pass that on when crschmidt is around.
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06:12:50 <sbp> phenny: de "Muese"?
06:12:52 <phenny> sbp: "Muese" (de)
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06:16:11 <xover> .title http://lwn.net/Articles/270357/rss
06:16:11 <phenny> xover: Microsoft announces changes to promote interoperability [LWN.net]
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06:16:40 <Monty> yo chris2!
06:18:03 <xover> .title http://blogs.msdn.com/brian_jones/archive/2008/02/21/british-library-will-host-the-office-binary-file-format-specifications.aspx
06:18:03 <phenny> xover: Brian Jones: Open XML Formats : British Library now hosting the Office Binary file format specifications
06:18:17 <xover> .title http://www.bl.uk/dp/formats
06:18:19 <phenny> xover: Digital Object Formats
06:28:31 <sbp> lovely how the library folk are still struggling to catch up with the web
06:29:06 <sbp> my favourite is the "archive all UK sites" project
06:33:19 <_bjoern> .gc "fun will now commence"
06:33:20 <phenny> "fun will now commence": 4,980
06:33:59 <_bjoern> Muese isn't german. Muse perhaps?
06:34:21 <_bjoern> Möse?
06:34:24 <lordi> ;)
06:34:32 <lordi> Müße
06:34:32 <sbp> _bjoern: original was <bancus> phenny: "Meine muese ist heiss wie ein Ofen."?
06:34:48 <sbp> so whatever makes sense in that context
06:35:00 <lordi> hahaha
06:35:20 <xover> phenny: tell Morbus http://www.boingboing.net/2008/02/21/collective-intellige.html
06:35:20 <phenny> xover: I'll pass that on when Morbus is around.
06:35:42 <_bjoern> Well I'd assume it's a reference to female sex organs, in which case it'd be Möse.
06:35:42 <_bjoern> http://dict.leo.org/ende?search=M%F6se
06:35:58 <xover> Bonus points for the author's name!
06:36:08 <xover> Oh, and...
06:36:17 <xover> .title http://www.boingboing.net/2008/02/21/collective-intellige.html
06:36:17 <phenny> xover: Collective intelligence spontaneously arises among ARG players -- paper from I Love Bees creator - Boing Boing
06:36:26 <sbp> quim? that's new to me
06:36:32 <sbp> "snatch (Amer.) [vulg.] [sl.]"
06:36:41 <darobin> .ety folkmoot
06:36:42 <phenny> Can't find the etymology for "folkmoot". Try http://etymonline.com/?search=folkmoot
06:36:43 <sbp> redunant categorisation there
06:36:48 <darobin> .ety moot
06:36:48 <phenny> "1154, from O.E. gemot 'meeting' (especially of freemen, to discuss community affairs or mete justice), from P.Gmc. *ga-motan (cf. O.L.F. muot 'encounter,' M.Du. moet, M.H.G. muoz), from collective prefix *ga- + *motan (see meet (v.))." - http://etymonline.com/?term=moot
06:40:37 <_bjoern> .gc Brionglóid
06:40:38 <phenny> Brionglóid: 2,650
06:41:01 <xover> .title http://news.wired.com/dynamic/stories/G/GOOGLE_HEALTH
06:41:01 <phenny> xover: News from The Associated Press
06:41:10 * xover sighs…
06:41:25 <xover> «Google to Store Patients' Health Records»
06:41:40 <sbp> I presume you're sighing at two things there
06:41:51 <xover> No, just the title.
06:42:06 <sbp> what's your opinion on the thing it's about?
06:42:17 <xover> The “Give Google Medical Records” merits many responses, but a mere sigh is not among them.
06:44:30 <xover> If you want I can give you a rant on the topic. Ping me about it tomorrowish.
06:45:20 <sbp> 'k
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07:20:59 <clsn> If someone's going to abuse your medical history, might as well be google. They at least know how to abuse data.
07:22:56 <clsn> Bleah. I'm coming down with something.
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07:46:46 * sbp writes and posts possibly his favourite Whits essay so far
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07:51:42 <_bjoern> .title http://www.freedom-to-tinker.com/?p=1257
07:51:43 <phenny> _bjoern: Freedom to Tinker » Blog Archive » New Research Result: Cold Boot Attacks on Disk Encryption
08:08:37 <sbp> .ety
08:08:40 <sbp> .ety essay
08:08:41 <phenny> "1597, 'short non-fiction literary composition' (first attested in writings of Francis Bacon, probably in imitation of Montaigne), from M.Fr. essai 'trial, attempt, essay,' from L.L. exagium 'a weighing, weight,' from L. exigere 'test,' from ex- 'out' + agere apparently [...]" - http://etymonline.com/?term=essay
08:08:43 <sbp> .ety assay
08:08:45 <phenny> "1330, from Anglo-Fr. assaier, from assai (n.), from O.Fr. essai 'trial' (see essay)." - http://etymonline.com/?term=assay
08:09:55 <clsn> Hm. Obviously I should be putting the blazon in the <desc> element of the SVGs I generate. And probably a link back to the pyBlazon home page, when such exists.
08:10:27 <sbp> yeah, good idea!
08:10:42 * clsn reads up on robots.txt so robots don't go following all the links to examples. emblazoning is kind of CPU-intensive, no need to make it go through all that for programs.
08:11:42 <clsn> If I put a Disallow: foo.php in my robots.txt file, will that block foo.php?x=y&z=q ?
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08:16:04 <_bjoern> It should.
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08:25:58 <_bjoern> .gc Aber Haitschi Bum Baitschi Bum Bum.
08:25:58 <phenny> Aber Haitschi Bum Baitschi Bum Bum.: 5
08:33:46 <Tene> .pc Ｕ
08:33:46 <phenny> Tene: .pc has been replaced by .u
08:33:50 <Tene> .u Ｕ
08:33:50 <phenny> U+FF35 FULLWIDTH LATIN CAPITAL LETTER U (Ｕ)
08:36:16 <Tene> phenny: but how can I get .pc and .cp confused if they're not so similar anymore?
08:36:58 <sbp> Tene: they're identical now
08:37:06 <sbp> in that .cp is .u now also
08:37:16 <_bjoern> You don't understand the remark.
08:37:24 <sbp> that's how he can get confused
08:37:48 <_bjoern> nice try.
08:38:04 <sbp> srsly
08:39:26 <Tene> .u 236A
08:39:26 <phenny> U+2236A CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-2236A (𢍪)
08:39:27 <phenny> U+236A0 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-236A0 (𣚠)
08:39:28 <phenny> U+236A1 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-236A1 (𣚡) [...]
08:41:09 <Tene> .u 263A
08:41:09 <phenny> U+2263A CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-2263A (𢘺)
08:41:10 <phenny> U+263A0 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-263A0 (𦎠)
08:41:11 <phenny> U+263A1 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-263A1 (𦎡) [...]
08:41:33 <_bjoern> Which character in the Star Trek universe goes by the most names (known names only)?
08:41:52 <_bjoern> Nickname, Alias, ... all count.
08:41:58 <sbp> Q
08:42:15 <_bjoern> Who goes by how many names?
08:42:25 <sbp> 73
08:42:42 <sbp> you're gonna be so fuckin' impressed if I got that right
08:42:43 <_bjoern> not a nice try.
08:42:46 <sbp> hehe
08:42:48 <sbp> damn
08:43:05 <sbp> was I at least in the right order of magnitude?
08:43:27 <deltab> is it a Trill?
08:43:53 <_bjoern> Well multiple personae don't count.
08:44:01 <_bjoern> I don't know, why else would I ask the question.
08:44:07 <sbp> oh. heh
08:44:18 <sbp> to give us something to do?
08:45:05 <_bjoern> Since when do I care about any of you?
08:45:26 <sbp> u not our frend? : : : ( ( (
08:45:38 <sbp> I HAVE TO GO CRY NOW
08:45:40 <sbp> 'night!
08:45:51 <_bjoern> friendship iz lvl 99, many CAD.
08:46:49 <deltab> Ashes to Ashes is on
08:47:04 <_bjoern> The Voyager episode?
08:47:25 <perigrin> mekano-pip, will you be sbp's frend?
08:47:28 <mekano-pip> perigrin: BARRIN ANY UN4SEEN CIRCUMSTANCEZ. KAY I WILL TRY T BE SBP Z FREND.
08:47:56 <_bjoern> mekano-pip: plz list forseen circumstances
08:47:57 <mekano-pip> _bjoern: DO U BELIEVE IT AR BETTR TO GO IT ALONE?
08:48:07 <_bjoern> mekano-pip: plz do any way u likez
08:48:08 <mekano-pip> _bjoern: LET UZ CHANGE TEH SUBJECT.
08:48:22 <_bjoern> I think he forsees no circumstances at all.
08:48:32 <Tene> .u ⍪
08:48:32 <phenny> U+236A APL FUNCTIONAL SYMBOL COMMA BAR (⍪)
08:48:46 <Tene> phenny: why couldn't you find that by number?
08:48:54 <Tene> .u U+236A
08:49:07 <Tene> .u 236A
08:49:08 <phenny> U+2236A CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-2236A (𢍪)
08:49:09 <phenny> U+236A0 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-236A0 (𣚠)
08:49:09 <phenny> U+236A1 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-236A1 (𣚡) [...]
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09:46:48 <xover> .u U+2236A
09:47:04 <xover> .u 0x2236A
09:47:17 <xover> .u \x2236A
09:47:46 <xover> .u 2236A
09:47:49 <phenny> U+2236A CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-2236A (𢍪)
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09:58:46 <nslater> sbp: ping
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10:01:01 <phenny> nslater: sbp can't come out and play right now. We're spooning.
10:01:10 <nslater> lol wut
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11:01:39 <cthompson> * Received a CTCP VERSION from freenode-connect
11:01:44 <cthompson> I'm bein probed!
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11:37:52 <cthompson> I'm bein probed BY PERIGRIN
11:38:08 <perigrin> mekano-pip, hit on cthompson
11:38:08 <mekano-pip> cthompson: IM DYIN, SO PLEEZ CRAM ME JUS LITTLE WHILE.
11:38:18 <cthompson> that's hott
11:38:26 <cthompson> usually I have to pay for action like that
11:38:35 <perigrin> who says you don't this time?
11:39:09 <cthompson> did mekano-pip hit on me on both channels at once?
11:39:12 <cthompson> or did you do that twice?
11:39:20 <perigrin> I did it twice :)
11:39:22 <cthompson> different nick
11:39:25 <cthompson> it would have to be
11:39:35 <perigrin> same hostmaks though I think
11:39:41 <cthompson> true
11:40:06 <perigrin> but pip's not that with it
11:40:19 <cthompson> no bot is done until it is self aware
11:43:12 <cthompson> the white death is here
11:43:20 <cthompson> they sent us home from work early
11:43:35 <cthompson> .weather kluk
11:43:37 <phenny> Overcast ☁, 24.8℉ (-4℃), 30.09in (1016mb), Unknown Precipitation, Mist, Light breeze 5kt (↑) - KLUK, 18:53, 2353Z
11:48:28 <perigrin> .weather kmsp
11:48:29 <phenny> Clear ☼, 15.8℉ (-9℃), 30.03in (1014mb), Light breeze 6kt (↑) - KMSP 17:53, 2353Z
11:48:38 <perigrin> it's been nice and sunny all day ...
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12:27:47 <pierpa> .weather lirf
12:27:49 <phenny> Clear ☼, 8℃, 1028mb, Light breeze 6kt (↑) - LIRF 1:20, 0020Z
12:28:00 <pierpa> yo Monty!
12:28:02 <Monty> because you retain memory is .gd
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12:39:12 <cthompson> hmmm
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13:40:30 <aspect> .calc diameter of moon
13:40:31 <phenny> diameter of moon = diameter (?) moon (?) of (?)
13:40:42 <aspect> sorry phenny
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13:42:44 <clsn> .calc moondiameter
13:42:46 <phenny> moondiameter = moondiameter (?)
13:42:49 <clsn> owell.
13:45:07 <aspect> .calc mass of moon
13:45:08 <phenny> mass of moon = 4.8481368110953599354e-9 moon (?) of (?)
13:45:36 <aspect> sounds approximately right
13:48:30 <clsn> What???
13:48:39 <sdkay> .calc 1 space station in moons
13:48:40 <phenny> 1 space station in moons = space (?) station (?) moons (?) moons
13:48:44 <clsn> With an exponent of 10^-9 it sounds right??
13:49:07 <clsn> What kinds of weight do you commonly deal with that the moon should be on the order of 10^-9 of them??
13:49:44 <clsn> .calc mass of moon in kg
13:49:45 <phenny> mass of moon in kg = 4.8481368110953599354e-9 moon (?) of (?) -> 1 kg (mass) kg
13:49:59 <clsn> yeah that can't be right.
13:51:11 <clsn> .g "per pale argent and gules a bend counterchanged"
13:51:12 <phenny> clsn: http://www.heraldica.org/topics/national/germany.htm
14:00:37 <clsn> interesting, since that seems to be Chaucer's arms from what I read.
14:09:23 <kpreid> phenny: ask sbp what the engine of the new .calc is
14:09:24 <phenny> kpreid: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
14:09:40 <sdkay> It's this frink thing.
14:09:47 <sdkay> .g "frink"
14:09:48 <phenny> sdkay: http://futureboy.homeip.net/frinkdocs/
14:10:18 <sdkay> Not that my nick is sbp
14:10:25 <sdkay> But I try to be helpful.
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19:48:44 <xover> phenny: tell sbp #4 is missing a “to” before “Nottamun Town”, and carries a spare “of” in the following sentence.
19:48:44 <phenny> xover: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
19:48:47 <phenny> UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character u'\u201c' in position 45: ordinal not in range(128) (file "/var/www/inamidst.com/htdocs/phenny/modules/tell.py", line 42, in dumpReminders)
19:48:50 <phenny> UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character u'\u201c' in position 45: ordinal not in range(128) (file "/var/www/inamidst.com/htdocs/phenny/modules/tell.py", line 42, in dumpReminders)
19:49:18 <xover> phenny: tell sbp #4 is missing a "to" before "Nottamun Town", and carries a spare "of" in the following sentence.
19:49:18 <phenny> xover: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
19:49:21 <phenny> UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character u'\u201c' in position 45: ordinal not in range(128) (file "/var/www/inamidst.com/htdocs/phenny/modules/tell.py", line 42, in dumpReminders)
19:49:24 <phenny> ...
19:49:31 <xover> Hmm.
19:50:04 <xover> phenny: tell sbp the new output throttler is a smidgen too agressive.
19:50:04 <phenny> xover: I'll pass that on when sbp is around. I'll have to use a pastebin, though, so your message may get lost.
19:50:07 <phenny> UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character u'\u201c' in position 45: ordinal not in range(128) (file "/var/www/inamidst.com/htdocs/phenny/modules/tell.py", line 42, in dumpReminders)
19:50:10 <phenny> UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character u'\u201c' in position 45: ordinal not in range(128) (file "/var/www/inamidst.com/htdocs/phenny/modules/tell.py", line 42, in dumpReminders)
19:51:31 <xover> phenny: tell sbp Metatropes should really be #1 on your list. It's the one concept that justifies the existence of all art qua art.
19:51:31 <phenny> xover: I'll pass that on when sbp is around. I'll have to use a pastebin, though, so your message may get lost.
19:51:34 <phenny> UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character u'\u201c' in position 45: ordinal not in range(128) (file "/var/www/inamidst.com/htdocs/phenny/modules/tell.py", line 42, in dumpReminders)
19:51:37 <phenny> ...
19:52:41 <phenny> Ugh. Not feeling too well today. All this unicode stuff is wreaking havoc on my digestion.
20:09:40 <nslater> phenny: since when did you get a personality?
20:35:22 <phenny> nslater: What, you're saying I'm boring? Well blame sbp! He's the one claiming to study Artificial Intelligence.
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20:56:57 <sbp> yo
20:56:58 <phenny> sbp: 21 Feb 22:24Z <nslater> tell sbp that I have read /whits/2008/concepts (which is really very interesting) but wanted to point out he misspelled lexcialised
20:56:59 <phenny> sbp: 02:32Z <kpreid> ask sbp what the engine of the new .calc is
20:57:02 <phenny> UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xe2 in position 62: ordinal not in range(128) (file "/var/www/inamidst.com/htdocs/phenny/irc.py", line 46, in __write)
20:57:29 <sbp> boome
20:58:00 <sbp> oh dear, that's actually quite bad
20:58:16 <nslater> yo
20:58:19 <sbp> yo nslater!
20:59:26 <pierpa> .gc "michala petri"
20:59:47 <pierpa> .g petri
21:00:05 <pierpa> hmmm
21:01:27 <sbp> $ touch -t 200702212018.52 whits/2008/concepts.html
21:01:47 <sbp> alright, *that's* fixed (thanks xover! will attend to the second point in a moment)
21:01:47 <sbp> now for phenny
21:02:06 <sbp> oh balls, I missed lexicalised
21:02:48 <sbp> fixed that too. thanks nslater!
21:02:51 <nslater> you know, if you edited in emacs you could use flyspell-mode :p
21:03:14 <sbp> I used to edit in emacs but its lack of unicode support got on my nerves
21:03:20 <nslater> it supports unicode
21:03:25 <sbp> not very well
21:03:29 <nslater> yes, perfectly :)
21:04:05 * sbp opens emacs, types ŵ: it says "Kill ring is empty". no ŵ
21:04:09 <nslater> i know because I edit utf-8 files with high bit chars all the time
21:04:18 <nslater> okay, so YOUR old and unconfigured emacs barfs
21:04:26 <nslater> my version doesn't :)
21:04:31 <nslater> what version number is it?
21:04:32 <sbp> what's your version?
21:04:33 <sbp> $ emacs --version
21:04:33 <sbp> GNU Emacs 22.1.1
21:04:57 <nslater> i can paste that char into my emacs find
21:04:57 <sbp> why should I have to configure it to support *writing*?
21:05:01 <sbp> it's an editor. heh
21:05:04 <nslater> mine is unconfigured
21:05:07 <nslater> stock install
21:05:09 <sbp> what version is it?
21:05:11 <nslater> same
21:05:14 <sbp> ...
21:05:20 <nslater> whats your locale?
21:05:25 <nslater> what term are you using?
21:05:37 <sbp> no $LANG set
21:05:41 <sbp> term is Terminal.app
21:05:43 <nslater> LANG=en_US.UTF-8
21:05:56 <sbp> I don't speak en_US
21:05:59 <sbp> will en_UK work?
21:06:03 <nslater> no, like i said, stock install here
21:06:07 <nslater> my system is only a week old
21:06:16 <nslater> os x's emacs is notoriously broken anyway :/
21:06:33 <sbp> I did en_US.UTF-8 and it didn't work
21:06:42 <nslater> it's probably more complex than that
21:06:46 <nslater> i dunno... google?
21:06:48 <nslater> eh eh
21:06:52 <sbp> yeah, I've tried somewhat
21:06:56 <sbp> never have been able to fix it
21:07:05 <sbp> as I say it should *work*
21:07:06 <nslater> switch to debian
21:07:11 <sbp> though you might be right that I shouldn't be blaming emacs
21:07:15 <nslater> stop hating freedom so much :p
21:07:16 <sbp> why? I've got TextWrangler
21:07:23 <sbp> I use a BSD variant!
21:07:46 <nslater> with lots of ugly freedom hating stuff on top like aqua, tsk tsk tsk
21:07:48 <realist> sbp: which one?
21:07:51 <nslater> rms would be upset
21:07:53 <sbp> Darwin
21:07:54 <sbp> hehe
21:08:17 <sbp> ô right, I was fixing phenny
21:08:17 <nslater> every time you hear the startup dong rms kills a kitten
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21:08:27 <sbp> or, actually, avoiding fixing phenny
21:08:29 <realist> Can't be mad at that.
21:09:00 <xover> nslater: You know, I entirely belive that. Literally.
21:09:09 <nslater> hahahaha
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21:09:37 <nslater> he sent me an email this morning, he's such a weird person
21:09:54 <nslater> it would be very entertaining to speak to him in person
21:10:11 <xover> Yeah, exchanging email with rms is… interesting.
21:10:22 <nslater> ah, i see you've been there too :p hehe
21:11:35 <realist> Reading other people's exchanges with rms usually makes me *cringe*
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21:12:08 <nslater> meh, he means well, he's just very, very, direct
21:12:42 <xover> [[[
21:12:42 <xover>  Every morning in Africa, a Gazelle wakes up. It knows it must run faster than
21:12:42 <xover>  the fastest lion or it will be killed. Every morning a Lion wakes up. It
21:12:42 <xover>  knows it must outrun the slowest Gazelle or it will starve to death. It
21:12:42 <xover>  doesn't matter whether you are a Lion or a Gazelle... when the sun comes up,
21:12:42 <xover>  you'd better be running.”
21:12:44 <xover> ]]]
21:13:34 <xover> I had that as my .sig in an email to him on a completely unrelated matter. He spent a couple of messages back and forth taking me to task for such rampant negativity.
21:14:13 <nslater> really, he took you to task? you must have really upset him
21:14:15 <xover> Now if he'd been stringing me up for exceeding a 4x80 .sig, on the other hand.
21:14:54 <nslater> i think thats quite a nice little passage anyway
21:14:56 <xover> Well, not really. I think “persuade” would be more apt to describe it.
21:15:24 <xover> I have a feeling rms in full-on task-taking mode would have scarred me for life. :-)
21:15:29 <nslater> it's not negative at all, in fact, if anything, its a positive message about how good/evil is relative
21:15:39 <xover> (And I'm an old-time Usenet person!)
21:15:43 <nslater> hahaha
21:15:54 <nslater> i remember having a private flame war with him for about 2 weeks about html
21:16:15 <nslater> he was telling me that closing elements (such as <p>) was pointless and hence he refused to to it
21:16:36 <xover> Someone should give him Hixie's email address.
21:16:39 <bjoern_> Actually, both just have to make sure there is equally good but easier to catch food than a Gazelle.
21:16:59 <nslater> hahaha
21:17:23 <xover> Run, Björn! Run!
21:18:00 <bjoern_> To the nutrition commerce center, yes. I'm very much out of food.
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21:18:19 <sbp> phenny!
21:18:23 <phenny> sbp!
21:18:24 <nslater> as much as his personality ammuses me though, i have a lot of respect for the man. i know quite a few people who hate the whole free software movement simply because rms flamed them once... hehe
21:18:27 <sbp> phenny: tell Monty ㋡㋡咒㋡¨咒¨咒¨ŷô̈ê,̦̊̊û˙Ê̵Æ‹̵̦
21:18:28 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when Monty is around.
21:18:30 <Monty> erratic onomastics >:)
21:18:30 <phenny> Monty: 09:41Z <sbp> tell Monty ㋡㋡咒㋡¨咒¨咒¨ŷô̈ê,̦̊̊û˙Ê̵Æ‹̵̦
21:18:31 <Monty> It's true to say that printer is tarty!
21:18:32 <Monty> Rafe: Are you eated it, LOLZ!"?
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21:18:58 <sbp> I believe it to be fixed
21:19:03 <sbp> if you disagree, press "nu" now!
21:19:09 <xover> Nu!
21:19:11 <tunk> whats "nu"?
21:19:13 <sbp> heheh
21:19:14 <nslater> NU
21:19:21 <sbp> NU is the ancient symbol of shupfoo
21:19:25 <xover> rms needs a good image consultant.
21:19:31 <nslater> do i win internets nao?
21:19:32 <tunk> sbp> oh, zomg.
21:19:43 <sbp> zomgfck, plz
21:19:47 <nslater> xover: yeah, but even if you gave him one he would refuse it, of course
21:19:50 <tunk> LEWLIES
21:19:54 <sbp> hehe
21:20:11 <xover> phenny: tell sbp Metatropes should really be #1 on your list. It's the one concept that justifies the existence of all art qua art.
21:20:11 <phenny> xover: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
21:20:26 <xover> phenny: tell sbp the new output throttler is a smidgen too agressive.
21:20:26 <phenny> xover: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
21:20:28 <nslater> i strugled with the concept of metatropes
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21:20:35 <xover> phenny: tell sbp Fill.
21:20:35 <phenny> xover: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
21:20:38 <xover> phenny: tell sbp Up.
21:20:38 <phenny> ...
21:20:42 <xover> phenny: tell sbp The.
21:20:42 <phenny> xover: I'll pass that on when sbp is around. I'll have to use a pastebin, though, so your message may get lost.
21:20:47 <xover> phenny: tell sbp Buffer.
21:20:47 <phenny> xover: I'll pass that on when sbp is around. I'll have to use a pastebin, though, so your message may get lost.
21:21:00 <nslater> wtf
21:21:35 <phenny> nslater: Language! There are ladies present!
21:21:41 *** danieljohnlewis (n=danieljo@client-82-3-74-229.manc.adsl.virgin.net) has joined #swhack
21:21:46 <nslater> phenny: name one, an active one
21:22:00 <nslater> phenny: a/s/l?
21:22:04 <phenny> <--- Uhm?
21:22:12 <nslater> wut?
21:22:16 <nslater> oh
21:22:19 <nslater> hahahaha
21:22:30 <nslater> when did you get simultaniously smart and funny?
21:22:58 <nslater> phenny: i think you're sbp in bot's clothing
21:23:09 <phenny> nslater: Well, sbp's grades /have/ been improving lately.
21:23:35 <sbp> test
21:23:35 <phenny> sbp: 09:43Z <xover> tell sbp Metatropes should really be #1 on your list. It's the one concept that justifies the existence of all art qua art.
21:23:36 <phenny> sbp: 09:43Z <xover> tell sbp the new output throttler is a smidgen too agressive.
21:23:37 <phenny> sbp: 09:43Z <xover> tell sbp Fill.
21:23:38 <phenny> sbp: 09:43Z <xover> tell sbp Up.
21:23:39 <phenny> [Sorry, some messages were elided and lost...]
21:23:46 <sbp> yay lost
21:23:48 <nslater> elided?
21:23:58 <xover> .w elided
21:23:58 <phenny> xover: .w hasn't been ported to my new codebase yet, sorry!
21:23:58 <nslater> how do i get a definition from phenny?
21:24:05 <xover> .gd elided
21:24:08 <sbp> you don't at the moment
21:24:16 <nslater> right
21:24:20 <nslater> i shall make up a meaning then
21:24:23 * sbp crumbles under his own shit programming
21:24:28 <sbp> I fuxked up whits too
21:24:37 * sbp sobs in the corner away from all the nast computers
21:25:04 <nslater> elided now means "placed in the draw of random stuff that every house has"
21:25:15 <sbp> I mean seriously, I did touch -amt on the file
21:25:23 <sbp> and yet the server's all "um no"
21:26:41 <sbp> sbp@bia:~/inamidst.com/whits/2008$ ls -al concepts.html
21:26:42 <sbp> -rw-r--r-- 1 sbp sbp 9052 2007-02-21 20:18 concepts.html
21:26:49 <nslater> whats that?
21:27:00 <phenny> sbp: Feeling blue are we? Want a little cuddle do we?
21:27:25 <nslater> sbp: im confused, how has phenny got this smart, are you able to send her sentences to speak?
21:27:34 *** mmmmmrob (n=mmmmmrob@82-46-200-212.cable.ubr04.king.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #swhack
21:27:45 <sbp> I'm not sending sentences to her to speak, no
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21:28:12 <nslater> did you have any part in her last sentence other than some programming done previously?
21:28:19 <danieljohnlewis> Could anyone translate "Fiat Vox" for me?
21:28:25 <sbp> no
21:28:41 <sbp> danieljohnlewis: voice of the Italian car
21:28:43 <xover> Fiat of the People? World, perhaps?
21:28:47 <nslater> im confused or impressed, im not sure which
21:28:57 <xover> Hmm. Or The Voice of Fiat (cf. Voice of COmmand)
21:29:17 <danieljohnlewis> the closest I could get was "Breathe Word"
21:30:10 <sbp> >>> import os.path
21:30:10 <sbp> >>> os.path.getmtime('concepts.html')
21:30:10 <sbp> 1172089131
21:30:15 <sbp> $ date -r 1172089131
21:30:15 <sbp> Wed Feb 21 20:18:51 GMT 2007
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21:30:40 <sbp> ooh, I see the problem
21:30:52 <sbp> wow, that's pretty bad
21:30:54 <xover> Well, “Vox Populi” is “Voice of the People”. And a “Fiat” is “An arbitrary order or decree”.
21:31:48 <danieljohnlewis> hmm, "Voice of the Order" maybe?
21:31:54 <xover> Soa Fiat Vox would be “Fiat Voice” -> “Order/Decree Voice” -> “Voice of Command”.
21:32:19 <xover> Possibly, “The Language of Command”.
21:32:27 <danieljohnlewis> hmmm interesting
21:32:55 <danieljohnlewis> its at the end of a podcast which I listen to
21:34:19 <xover> Then again, “Fiat” is: [Medieval Latin, from Latin, let it be done, third person sing. present subjunctive of fierī, to become, to be done.]
21:34:25 <sbp> <3
21:34:32 <sbp> that's going to make a fun thing to write about on whits at least
21:34:46 <xover> So it might be intended as “Let the Voice Be/Happen/Become”.
21:35:54 <xover> And depending on context, Voice might be intended as “Voice of the People” (if it's a socialist-ish context), or “Song/Singing[voice]” is it's a musical context.
21:36:04 <danieljohnlewis> ah... I might just send an email off to the podcast author
21:36:07 <sbp> I'd go with voice of command too
21:36:11 <xover> .gc "Fiat Vox"
21:36:32 <sbp> "'Fiat Vox' (Let there be Voice)"
21:36:40 <sbp> phenny!
21:37:03 <sbp> alright. carpenter time for me
21:37:15 * xover nails sbp's ass to the wall…
21:38:11 *** phenny has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:38:19 *** phenny (i=sbp@bia.crschmidt.net) has joined #swhack
21:38:45 <sbp> .gc "fiat vox"
21:38:46 <phenny> "fiat vox": 1,220
21:41:32 <sbp> right. so. what was I doing? :-)
21:41:42 <sbp> ah yes. phenny throttling
21:41:49 <sbp> xover: is it too fast with the output or too slow?
21:41:52 <sbp> wait, must be too slow
21:41:58 <sbp> nobody would complain about it being too fast
21:42:16 <sbp> I tried to make it so that it'd be as fast as possible without it getting flooded off
21:42:25 <sbp> whenever I set the numbers any lower I could always flood it off
21:43:35 <sbp> perhaps I should see if there's an existing flood protection algorithm out there somewhere
21:43:46 <sbp> e.g. in an IRC client. dowse the X-Chat Source
21:44:53 <sbp> admittedly what's in phenny at the moment isn't as simple as a bytes/second rate limiter
21:44:55 <sbp> and it probably should be
21:45:55 <sbp> phenny: ask cr`x how he'd translate "fiat vox"; a question that danieljohnlewis had on #swhack
21:45:56 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when cr`x is around.
21:46:06 <sbp> next order of business, metatropes
21:46:25 <sbp> it should indeed be first on the list
21:47:01 <sbp> I put it third because that's where it was on the list of notes that I initially took down about this. I wrote a list of ten notes, one of which was just expository, the others being the nine things that I wrote about
21:47:22 <xover> sbp: The throttler makes phenny spit out “…” somewhat sooner than seems sensible.
21:47:40 <sbp> I kept the order for two reasons. the first is that I wondered if the order in which I wrote them down had some kind of structural meaning, or whether it was just random; haven't decided that yet, but tending towards random
21:47:45 <sbp> ah, the ... thing! aye
21:47:47 <sbp> I'll fix that
21:48:35 <sbp> done. won't appear until next upload
21:48:40 <xover> BTW, are you doing your own locking?
21:48:44 <sbp> yeah
21:48:56 <xover> You may want to minimize that as much as possible.
21:49:10 <sbp> why's that?
21:49:18 <xover> Deadlocks.
21:49:41 <_bjoern> I would like to dump all the unallocated bytes on an NTFS drive into a file; is there a way to do that?
21:50:12 <xover> _bjoern: Linux NTFS and dd on the device?
21:50:34 <_bjoern> Well that would give me all the bytes, that's too much.
21:50:44 <xover> Or maybe some “undelete” tool might help.
21:51:19 <_bjoern> I was thinking perhaps Windows can create a new file and simply inherit the free bytes into it.
21:51:32 <xover> Many of those are from vendors of “Forensic” products, so looking for sheep shaggin in the unallocated sectors should be right up their alley.
21:52:19 <xover> I think most OS'es now zero out file contents on allocate to avoid inheriting random chunks of data.
21:53:10 <xover> ISTR there was some brouhaha a while back about Word files containing the data from the last unallocated block.
21:53:33 <sbp> back in a while
21:53:42 <xover> (where Word was the topic because those files tend to be shuffled around in email a lot)
21:54:06 <_bjoern> I think sparse file creation does not do that, but I am unsure whether Windows will pretend to have zero'd them out.
21:54:59 <xover> Well, it probably doesn't write that stuff out to disk; but from your perspective it probably might as well have.
22:03:27 *** cre8radix (n=cre8radi@p54BE5602.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #swhack
22:05:37 <_bjoern> okay the default is to report zeros on unused positions
22:16:04 <cre8radix> moin
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22:30:23 <Monty> Thank goodness, danieljohnlewis is back!
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23:39:26 <sbp> yo
23:39:42 <Arnia> oy
23:40:03 <sbp> what up?
23:41:51 <Arnia> Just gotten feedback from Tom (Croucher) and it is pretty positive
23:42:04 <Arnia> Submitting after my meeting in an hour
23:50:14 <cre8radix> heya
23:50:29 <cre8radix> wanna jam onna doggybox?
23:50:37 <cre8radix> sbp: check it
23:50:49 <cre8radix> click space and record a vari
23:50:52 <cre8radix> http://www.beatbox.tele2.se/
23:52:52 * sbp tries it
23:54:12 <sbp> that's pretty great