00:00:31 <clsn> keywords don't seem to work at all for me. Just endless "search in progress"
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00:06:25 <procto> tried restarting your browser?
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00:31:07 <_bjoern> .gs federation *
00:31:08 <phenny> federation *: is (6), of (3), home (3), workgroup (2), with (2), uk (2), toys (2), to (2), press (2), nation (2), models (2), manager (2), incorporated (2), inc (2)
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00:33:13 <nslater> yo plum, hows it hanging?
00:33:13 <plum> lo
00:33:45 <_bjoern> that's almost funny.
00:35:11 <_bjoern> phenny, tell sbp http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-missile-parts-pentagon-taiwan-story,0,3604999.story
00:35:12 <phenny> _bjoern: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
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00:35:21 * nslater fails
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00:39:41 <_bjoern> nice "alreadydo" tag on /.
00:39:56 <cre8radix|afk> nice
00:40:13 <_bjoern> You are afk, you should not say anything at all!
00:40:23 <cre8radix|afk> oops
00:40:27 <cre8radix|afk> beat me
00:40:28 <cre8radix|afk> http://www.neostream.com/
00:40:32 * _bjoern beats cre8radix|afk
00:41:10 <_bjoern> they sure know their way around the <img>
00:41:17 <cre8radix|afk> lol
00:42:26 <therethinker> Wazzat
00:42:29 <cre8radix|afk> yeah
00:42:32 <cre8radix|afk> but
00:42:34 <therethinker> Yay voltage?
00:42:40 <cre8radix|afk> "Do not modify this script code for any purpose."
00:42:44 <cre8radix|afk> suckage
00:43:03 <therethinker> Hehehe
00:43:34 <therethinker> They need to not use GIF's
00:45:28 * Arnia gets lost in a diagram which is supposed to commute but he cannot figure out how
00:48:11 <kpreid> Hey Arnia, want to give a category theory lesson?
00:49:07 <Arnia> Sure
00:49:40 <kpreid> What's an example of a *non*-commutative diagram
00:50:13 <kpreid> How do they arise?
00:51:30 <Arnia> A non-commutative diagram would be a graph which couldn't be turned into a portion of a category
00:51:58 <Arnia> Saying a diagram commutes is equivalent to saying that all paths in the diagram from any pair of points are equal
00:52:08 <Arnia> (i.e. map to the same morphism in the category)
00:53:06 <kpreid> Right, right, but what sorts of things have that property?
00:53:14 <Arnia> False statements
00:53:24 <Arnia> So anything which isn't true
00:53:26 <kpreid> Heh, ok
00:55:12 <kpreid> I appreciate the idea of of what category theory is about, but have trouble integrating the practice
00:58:29 <Arnia> Category theory by itself isn't practical. What it allows one to do is to make general statements in a practice agnostic fashion. It provides a very neat and elegant language for talking about things, and proving things, irrespective of the final application.
00:59:00 <Arnia> You can then use the definition of your application, as a category, to map these abstract statements to concrete statements in your practical domain
00:59:51 <Arnia> So, for example, one can use all the theorems about monads which have been formulated in category theoretic language and then transform these to statements about objects in set theory, or in Haskell's type system, or in topological spaces.
00:59:56 <Arnia> etc.
01:00:55 <Arnia> Rather than have to prove the same things over and over again, you get all the categorical proofs for free, and the cost of entry is simply providing a mapping of your domain to the language of category theory (objects with arrows between objects which satisfy a very small number of axioms)
01:01:02 <twe> [Off] and are you free.
01:01:07 <kpreid> Arnia: I get all that. By "the practice" I mean the actual concepts which make up category theory, how they operate, and how the mapping with 'real' (other-domain) entities works
01:01:20 <Arnia> Since the axioms of category theory are so small, that toll is very low
01:01:47 <Arnia> kpreid: well, the key concept is the idea of a graph
01:02:20 <Arnia> Category theory adds two axioms which a graph should satisfy, and lo, that graph becomes a category.
01:02:50 <kpreid> Ok so far...
01:02:53 <Arnia> If you can describe your practical domain in terms of graphs, you can (usually) turn it into a category.
01:03:27 <Arnia> For example, the category of sets has as its basis a node for each set and an arc for each function between sets
01:03:37 <twe> And distinct from each function.
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01:04:53 <Arnia> The categorial axioms state that each node must have a distinguished loop, called the identity arrow, and any pair of arcs where the target of the first and the source of the second are the same node should be 'composable' which means that there is an arc which skips the middle node of the pair
01:05:31 <kpreid> That is, the graph is its own transitive closure, yes?
01:05:41 <Arnia> The identity arrow is a sort of 'no op' in that when it composes with another arrow it can just be ignored
01:05:45 <Arnia> kpreid: yes
01:06:09 <kpreid> Ok.
01:06:37 <Arnia> As I said, if you can describe your practical domain in terms of a graph with these properties then you can use the machinery of category theory
01:06:44 <Arnia> Very low barrier to entry
01:07:11 <Arnia> Of course, a category with no additional structure than that just described is very boring
01:07:35 <kpreid> Question:
01:07:56 <Arnia> But the interesting thing is that you can take additional structures (phrased purely in terms of objects and arrows in a category) and reverse map them to your practical domain
01:08:02 <kpreid> ...never mind.
01:08:09 <kpreid> go on
01:08:21 <Arnia> No, ask :)
01:08:58 <_bjoern> ahaha http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knight_Rider#Popularity_in_other_countries
01:09:21 <_bjoern> Midnight Rider, El Auto Fantastico, ...
01:09:32 <kpreid> I seem to recall, particularly in Haskellish discussions, noting that the categorical interpretation of something seemed to refer to *sets* of things where the domain would have that which are members of the sets
01:09:47 <kpreid> But I think that's just because you're generalizing over all entities
01:09:53 <kpreid> all instances
01:09:58 <_bjoern> phenny, tell n4m3z l0l sbp http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knight_Rider#Popularity_in_other_countries
01:09:58 <phenny> _bjoern: I'll pass that on when n4m3z is around.
01:10:07 <_bjoern> phenny, tell sbp n4m3z l0l http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knight_Rider#Popularity_in_other_countries
01:10:08 <phenny> _bjoern: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
01:10:16 *** _bjoern is now known as n4m3z
01:10:18 <n4m3z> stfu
01:10:19 <phenny> n4m3z: 01:14Z <_bjoern> tell n4m3z l0l sbp http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knight_Rider#Popularity_in_other_countries
01:10:23 *** n4m3z is now known as _bjoern
01:11:13 <_bjoern> "In Germany and Austria the show was popular enough that it spawned a licensed German audioplay series available on cassettes which re-told the original TV series, only with more accurate translation than can be done for lip-synch dubbing, featuring the series's original dubbing voices but employing their own sound effects and scene music alongside the show's original theme."
01:11:16 <_bjoern> I have many of those.
01:11:24 <Arnia> kpreid: ah... category theory avoids talking about sets as far as possible except as part of a category
01:11:37 <_bjoern> Bought them on ... what's it called
01:11:39 <Arnia> kpreid: the reason being, we don't want to tie ourselves to a particular size of universe
01:11:40 <kpreid> Arnia: Not saying it does
01:11:43 <_bjoern> phenny, de "Flohmarkt"?
01:11:43 <phenny> _bjoern: "Flea market" (de)
01:11:53 <_bjoern> good one phenny
01:11:59 <_bjoern> .wik Flea market
01:12:00 <phenny> "A flea market or swap meet is a place where vendors come to sell or trade their goods." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flea_market
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01:13:31 <Arnia> kpreid: one of the nicest developments of category theory is the notion of a topos; that is something which behaves a lot like a set theory does, but defined without presuming a single notion of membership
01:14:24 <Arnia> kpreid: not all topoi have the axiom of choice for example
01:14:37 <kpreid> Arnia: Ok, I'm lost. This doesn't tie into the parts I have so far
01:14:49 <_bjoern> .gs we will * them
01:14:50 <phenny> we will * them: remember (4), treat (3), remove (3), reimburse (3), leaue (3), give (3), fight (3), withdraw (2), welcome (2), teach (2), revisit (2), refer (2)
01:14:53 <Arnia> kpreid: ok, what bits do you have?
01:16:26 <kpreid> A category is a graph with transitive closure.
01:17:09 <Arnia> Right. Ok, transitive closure plus an loop on each node which can be factored away
01:17:10 <kpreid> I don't have any bits to show where topoi *or* sets tie in *inherently* (as opposed to being the objects you're talking about, which is what I was asking about)
01:17:32 <kpreid> ah, right, that is itself not part of t.c. ok.
01:18:29 <Arnia> Do you know about preorders or monoids?
01:19:34 <kpreid> No
01:21:05 <Arnia> Ok, a preorder is a set with a partial ordering relation between its members (a partial order relation is a reflexive and transitive relation)
01:21:14 <twe> Its like a members pass that on their own.
01:22:30 <Arnia> A monoid is a set together with an operation * which is associative and has an identity element in that set
01:23:10 <kpreid> OK, I know a partial order.
01:23:24 <kpreid> A preorder is a a set and a partial order on it
01:23:27 <Arnia> In effect a monoid is like a set of lists
01:23:49 <Arnia> A category can also be thought of as like the generalisation of both the notion of a preorder and of a monoid. This is an important intuition so I'll try and explain it a bit more
01:23:51 <kpreid> I know a monoid as in Haskell
01:24:49 <kpreid> Arnia: Got to pack the laptop now. Back in 20-30 min
01:24:55 <Arnia> ok. I need to sleep tbh
01:25:00 <Arnia> Need to be up quite early
01:26:10 <kpreid> bye then
01:26:34 <Arnia> We can continue tomorrow
01:26:43 <kpreid> phenny: tell Arnia (when he returns) to remind me to ask him about preorder * monoid = category
01:26:43 <phenny> kpreid: I'll pass that on when Arnia is around.
01:27:27 <_bjoern> .gc misanticipate
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01:27:33 <phenny> misanticipate: 38
01:27:46 <_bjoern> .gc disanticipate
01:27:46 <phenny> disanticipate: 8
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01:41:37 <Monty> But what does nwalsh have to do with the price of fish?
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01:45:01 <Monty> howdy, plum
01:45:02 <plum> yip yip yip yip yipyipyipyip yip yip yipyipyip yip yip.
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01:46:10 <nslater> lol
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01:46:50 <nslater> plum, feeling a little better now?
01:46:50 <plum> probably will get better as i watch more.
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02:16:57 <Monty> bah, it's plum again
02:16:58 <plum> cancelled it because i never used it. it was announced while we were discussing it! its excellent if you want to look into it as they dont mention it being available etc.
02:18:27 <nslater> plum, look at you jabbering on without context
02:18:28 <plum> look for %prun. lol
02:21:57 <kpreid> %prun sounds like something you'd find in the guts of a Lisp implementation
02:22:35 <nslater> haha, yeah, probably
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02:23:37 <xover> plum: You mean %preun, or possibly %postun.
02:23:37 <plum> actually probably not.
02:23:45 <selggig> :D
02:23:49 <selggig> she talks back
02:24:08 <xover> Feisty wench.
02:24:21 <nslater> hehe, she got an upgrade, eh plum? :p
02:24:21 <plum> hmm there was a bit of tension between you eh? is the iphone enterprise a separate or just a software upgrade? i wonder if theres a list of leopard upgrade issues anywhere.
02:24:28 <twe> Anywhere i can just about everything.
02:25:51 <nslater> .g testing to make sure plum wont respond to phenny commands
02:25:51 <plum> that would be just to test this.
02:25:52 <phenny> nslater: http://swhack.com/logs/2008-03-06
02:25:56 <nslater> great
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02:28:43 <Monty> welcome, plum
02:28:44 <plum> great thx, for great justice? lol
02:29:17 <xover> .gc "Doctor Quimby"
02:29:17 <phenny> "Doctor Quimby": 598
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09:19:33 <sbp> ehheh:
09:19:33 <phenny> sbp: 25 Mar 23:19Z <_bjoern> tell sbp http://www.netzwelt.de/news/74993-der-gadgetglobus-digitales-voodoo-fuer.html
09:19:35 <sbp> 09:22 <Monty> +howdy, plum
09:19:35 <phenny> sbp: 00:40Z <_bjoern> tell sbp http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-missile-parts-pentagon-taiwan-story,0,3604999.story
09:19:37 <phenny> sbp: 01:15Z <_bjoern> tell sbp n4m3z l0l http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knight_Rider#Popularity_in_other_countries
09:19:37 <sbp> 09:22 <plum> +yip yip yip yip yipyipyipyip yip yip yipyipyip yip yip.
09:19:39 <Monty> but, piebot won't know about things, irrespective of choice for evil purposes)
09:22:02 *** sbp changed the topic to: "EL AUTO FANTÁSTICO"
09:22:32 * _bjoern goes störche chexing
09:22:34 <sbp> “WASHINGTON - The Pentagon has announced that it mistakenly shipped non-nuclear ballistic missile components to Taiwan from a U.S. Air Force base in Wyoming.” - ahaha, what?
09:22:42 <sbp> yep, done that. they look cools
09:23:06 * sbp deciphers Digitales Voodoo für Anfänger with his decipherment contraption
09:24:10 <sbp> from what I can decipher: hehe
09:24:20 <_bjoern> phenny, "Das neue Paar auf dem Dach der Storchenscheune schleppt immer mehr Material hoch. Besonders fleißig scheint dabei das Männchen zu sein, während das unberingte Weibchen seine Stärken offenbar in der Bauleitung hat ;-)Naja, so einseitig ist es dann doch nicht, auf diesem Bild wird jedenfalls Hand in Hand -- ähhhhm - Schnabel in Schnabel gearbeitet:"?
09:24:20 <phenny> AttributeError: '_socketobject' object has no attribute 'admin' (file "/var/www/inamidst.com/htdocs/phenny/bot.py", line 160, in __getattr__)
09:24:28 <sbp> I can't quite tell if it has some lowly t... ew
09:24:43 <sbp> 'chmust fixor!
09:24:45 <_bjoern> cf. http://bp0.blogger.com/_weokMisd98c/R-oV5R4vy5I/AAAAAAAABKQ/P0iNT3ZlsuU/s1600-h/013.jpg
09:25:02 <sbp> I'm surprised they still haven't lain yet
09:25:11 <sbp> well I'm surprised that the female hasn't lain, at the very least
09:25:25 <_bjoern> The nest isn't ready
09:26:20 <sbp> ôrly?
09:26:26 <sbp> they don't seem to be working on it much
09:26:42 <_bjoern> fixor teh bugz for a second opinion
09:26:59 <sbp> phenny: reload *
09:27:00 <phenny> sbp: done
09:27:02 <sbp> phenny, "Das neue Paar auf dem Dach der Storchenscheune schleppt immer mehr Material hoch. Besonders fleißig scheint dabei das Männchen zu sein, während das unberingte Weibchen seine Stärken offenbar in der Bauleitung hat ;-)Naja, so einseitig ist es dann doch nicht, auf diesem Bild wird jedenfalls Hand in Hand -- ähhhhm - Schnabel in Schnabel gearbeitet:"?
09:27:03 <phenny> AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'admin' (file "/var/www/inamidst.com/htdocs/phenny/modules/translate.py", line 73, in tr)
09:27:09 <sbp> ...wank
09:27:59 <sbp> I program so shittily sometimes
09:28:14 <sbp> phenny: reload *
09:28:15 <phenny> sbp: done
09:28:17 <sbp> phenny, "Das neue Paar auf dem Dach der Storchenscheune schleppt immer mehr Material hoch. Besonders fleißig scheint dabei das Männchen zu sein, während das unberingte Weibchen seine Stärken offenbar in der Bauleitung hat ;-)Naja, so einseitig ist es dann doch nicht, auf diesem Bild wird jedenfalls Hand in Hand -- ähhhhm - Schnabel in Schnabel gearbeitet:"?
09:28:20 <phenny> sbp: "The new pair on the roof of the stork barn drags ever more materials highly. Thereby the male seems particularly industrious to be, while the unberingte female his strengths obviously in the construction supervision has;-)Naja, so one-sided is it then nevertheless not, in this picture anyhow hand in hand -- aehhhhm - bill in bill worked:" (de)
09:28:47 <sbp> I think the female's only pretending to work in that photo
09:29:12 <_bjoern> Well, construction supervision...
09:29:13 <sbp> I love how it translated “ähhhhm”
09:32:25 <sbp> .gcs "halcyon days" "kingfisher days" "halcyon day" "kingfisher day" "alcyon days" "alcyon day"
09:32:34 <phenny> "halcyon days" (651,000), "halcyon day" (10,100), "kingfisher days" (1,240), "kingfisher day" (988), "alcyon days" (809), "alcyon day" (4)
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09:57:42 <cre8radix> re
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09:59:40 <sbp> yo cre8radix
09:59:57 <cre8radix> heya
10:02:38 <sbp> ooh, this next whit will probably push Whits over 100,000 words
10:08:46 <xover> Compress it.
10:09:00 <sbp> yeah, I'm whittling it down now
10:09:19 <sbp> as I always do. but I'm very close to the 100,000 word mark
10:09:30 <sbp> it'd have to be a haiku to avoid it
10:10:55 <xover> .title http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/03/craigslist_scam.html
10:10:56 <phenny> xover: Schneier on Security: Craigslist Scam
10:13:43 <_bjoern> lo xover
10:14:01 <xover> The Björn!
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10:29:15 <sbp> .u hor ellip
10:29:18 <phenny> U+2026 HORIZONTAL ELLIPSIS (…)
10:29:34 <xover> Opt-.
10:29:42 <sbp> ≥?
10:29:59 <xover> Pity.
10:30:01 <xover> …
10:30:05 <sbp> it used to be Alt+; for me
10:30:12 <sbp> but I mapped that to combining diaeresis instead
10:30:26 <sbp> .̈̈̈̈̈̈̈̈̈̈̈̈̈̈̈̈
10:30:31 <xover> Aaargh!
10:30:31 <sbp> so that I can do that
10:30:35 <sbp> hehe
10:30:52 <xover> E_TOOEARLYFORCOMBINERS
10:31:01 <sbp> E_MORECOFFEENEEDED?
10:31:23 <xover> T_YES
10:34:08 <sbp> ahaha. 99,981 words
10:34:20 <sbp> awesome
10:34:28 * sbp uploads his haiku of a whit
10:34:43 <sbp> .title http://inamidst.com/whits/2008/criticism
10:34:45 <phenny> sbp: Literary Criticism
10:36:47 *** therethinker (n=therethi@c-24-34-102-128.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #swhack
10:38:54 * sbp finds a more accurate quote for Addison...
10:39:08 <sbp> it's from The Spectator, No. 291. Saturday, February 2, 1712
10:43:20 *** williamthekid has quit ("drive slow, homie...")
10:44:06 <sbp> .c 99,981 in octal
10:44:07 <phenny> 99 981 = 0o303215
10:46:54 <sbp> extraordinarily apropos referrer:
10:46:55 <sbp> [IS BREAKING OF HYMEN ESSENTIAL IN ONDER TO CONCEIVE]
10:55:22 <xover> “Sir.”?
10:56:31 <sbp> whoops
10:57:08 <sbp> thanks, fixed
10:59:06 *** libby (n=libby@colbert-ext.lid.theveniceproject.com) has joined #swhack
11:10:22 <sbp> .title http://www.emilydickinson.org/fascicle/bray.html
11:10:22 <phenny> sbp: Unfastening the Fascicles: Robert Bray, "Why Thoughts Are Better Than Music"
11:10:53 <sbp> check this out: http://www.emilydickinson.org/fascicle/brayfig1.jpg
11:12:36 <xover> Yes. Let's do reduce poetry to numbers and graphs.
11:14:18 <Monty> _bjoern: You asked me to remind you to say SBP SRY 4 DE LNK
11:15:32 * sbp finds out via Late Bloomer: The Gentian as Sign or Symbol in the Work of Dickinson and Her Contemporaries, Elizabeth A. Petrino, The Emily Dickinson Journal 14.1 (2004) 104-125, that there's an alternative reading for J500 that doesn't seem to be very commonly noted on the web... or in books
11:15:47 *** nwalsh (n=ndw@66-189-4-239.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com) has joined #swhack
11:16:13 <sbp> in fact, it's only in one book on Google Books
11:16:38 <sbp> but I think the edition I just got from web.archive.org, oddly enough, may be that book...
11:17:52 <sbp> nope. bugger
11:18:49 <sbp> book is Poems: Including Variant Readings Critically Compared with All Known Manuscripts, Thomas Herbert Johnson, 1955
11:19:25 <xover> .title http://richarddawkins.net/article,2394,Lying-for-Jesus,Richard-Dawkins
11:19:26 <phenny> xover: 'Lying for Jesus?' by Richard Dawkins - RichardDawkins.net
11:19:41 <sbp> Monty: remind me in 1 hour to say _BJOERN IZ K MY TRANSLATORING CONTRAPTION WORXED THX
11:19:42 <Monty> sbp: Okay, I'll remind you about that on Wed Mar 26 12:24:56 GMT 2008
11:20:56 <_bjoern> k
11:26:58 <sbp> hmm
11:27:00 <sbp> .title http://oasis.lib.harvard.edu/oasis/deliver/~hou01457
11:27:02 <phenny> sbp: Dickinson, Emily, 1830-1886. Poems: Guide.
11:27:13 <sbp> that's the only webpage I can find describing the structure of the fascicles
11:28:08 <sbp> very nice though
11:30:20 <xover> .title http://daringfireball.net/2008/03/mail_quoting_bug
11:30:21 <phenny> xover: Daring Fireball: Quoting Attribution Bug in Apple Mail After Upgrading to Safari 3.1
11:30:44 <xover> The fuck. They really planning on using WebKit for absolutely everything?
11:31:22 <sbp> [[[
11:31:23 <sbp> Whether the orders in which Emily Dickinson arranged the fascicles is intentional or a happenstance of her record-keeping is at the heart of debates about their meanings, and each of our presenters brings insightful commentary to the meanings of this much-studied nineteenth-century poet's bookmaking.
11:31:30 <sbp> ]]] - http://www.emilydickinson.org/fascicle/fascicle_index.html
11:33:26 <xover> .title http://www.boingboing.net/2008/03/25/rick-rickroll-astley.html
11:33:27 <phenny> xover: Rick "Rickroll" Astley interviewed - Boing Boing
11:36:43 <sbp> the Link is funny
11:36:46 <xover> phenny: tell _bjoern http://rickrobo.ytmnd.com/
11:36:47 <phenny> xover: I'll pass that on when _bjoern is around.
11:37:21 <_bjoern> AEEEEEEEEEEKKKKKAZGZ
11:37:21 <phenny> _bjoern: 11:42Z <xover> tell _bjoern http://rickrobo.ytmnd.com/
11:37:34 <_bjoern> no sound links without warning plz
11:38:11 <_bjoern> !!!
11:38:20 <sbp> I'm sure he really meant to say: Ä̈̈̈̈̈̈̈̈̈KKKKKAZGZ
11:39:07 <_bjoern> I'm not used to screaming in english.
11:39:19 <nslater> sbp: how come you're reading around Dickinson anyhoo?
11:42:46 * sbp puzzles at http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Fame_is_the_tine_that_Scholars_leave
11:42:57 <sbp> .gcs "Fame is the tine that Scholars leave" "Fame is the tint that Scholars leave"
11:42:59 <phenny> "Fame is the tine that Scholars leave" (424), "Fame is the tint that Scholars leave" (50)
11:43:05 <sbp> nslater: I've always liked Dickinson
11:43:32 <nslater> sbp: ah, I just figured your recent activity must have been inspired by something :)
11:43:39 <sbp> why I'm reading her recently... the day before yesterday, I think, in my power-taft, I found... heh, yeah
11:43:52 <sbp> I found a few poems that somebody liked of hers collected on a website
11:43:54 <nslater> lol powertaft, I like it
11:44:17 <sbp> and that set me off. but I had been casting an eye towards her a few times before
11:44:29 <nslater> sure, makes sense
11:44:38 <sbp> I have lots of set periods that I'm interested in—about fifteen or twenty
11:44:43 <sbp> and I flit between them depending on my mood
11:44:48 <twe> I think i'm that up the whole set?
11:44:53 <xover> Hmm. Powertaft. Is that like Giga Bowser?
11:44:53 <twe> I would give them a good mood?
11:45:16 <sbp> Dickinson is probably enticing me because of the immense power of her poetry, in this period of me thinking deeply about poetic craft
11:45:18 <nslater> ... what's setting _her_ off?
11:45:43 <sbp> who? eh?
11:45:50 <nslater> twe
11:45:53 <sbp> her?
11:45:59 <nslater> him?
11:46:05 <twe> It was mostly to blame, because he knew what you have any self-serving illusions about one hundred four twe years old.
11:46:06 <nslater> oh this bot gender thing is quite confusin :p
11:46:08 <sbp> anything with "twe" in it
11:46:25 <twe> I can ssh to it now and closing the loophole left by anything,' from o.prov. Carriera, from v.l. *Romanice scribere 'to write in a twe...
11:46:37 <nslater> aha yes, it was a delayed response to your two lines, thought she was replying to xover
11:46:41 <sbp> aye
11:46:48 <sbp> we always call him a he for some reason
11:46:55 <sbp> even though the name isn't explicitly gendered
11:47:13 <sbp> alright. so tine or tint?
11:47:18 <xover> Tine.
11:47:55 <nslater> heh, which reminds me, my purple fruit bot had an upgrade, the markov chain stuff is now so fast and so effortless I am thinking about adding some sleep()s to make it less instant :p
11:48:03 <sbp> evidence?
11:48:07 <nslater> go for it
11:48:11 <xover> Yes.
11:49:39 <sbp> show me the damn evidence
11:49:59 * nslater wonders who sbp is talking to
11:50:06 <sbp> xover
11:50:09 <xover> No.
11:50:12 <nslater> thought so ;)
11:50:18 <sbp> that's because you haven't got any. faker
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11:50:28 <sbp> this is serious! the internets are wrong!
11:50:36 <xover> heh heh
11:50:37 <nslater> meh, I don't need to proof my awesomeness to you mr palmer
11:50:41 <nsh> whoa, cancel all holiday
11:50:45 <sbp> hehheh
11:50:53 <nsh> batton down the fallacy-hatches
11:51:00 <nslater> heh
11:51:04 <xover> “You don't understand! There's something WRONG! On the INTERNET!”
11:51:20 * nslater turns on the internet hate machine
11:51:28 <sbp> Thomas Herbert Johnson says "tint"
11:51:29 <xover> Is that a real band name yet?
11:51:43 <xover> .gc "Internet Hate Machine"
11:51:44 <phenny> "Internet Hate Machine": 53,200
11:52:13 <xover> Somebody, anybody, /please/ publish music under that name!
11:52:24 <xover> It doesn't even have to be good music!
11:52:27 <sbp> how could so many sites have it wrong?
11:52:29 <nslater> .g internet hate machine band
11:52:30 <phenny> nslater: http://www.myspace.com/justyn1337
11:52:41 <nsh> .gc "ignorance echo chamber"
11:52:41 <phenny> "ignorance echo chamber": 3
11:52:44 <xover> sbp: Evidence that they are wrong?
11:52:50 <nsh> wow, i thought i'd just made that up
11:53:00 <nsh> but apparantly someone else realised how the internet works too
11:53:05 <nslater> only three
11:53:09 <xover> (that _was_ a yes/no question)
11:53:19 <nslater> or one person with an axe to grind
11:54:45 <xover> Oh dear god, you made me open emogoth's myspace page!
11:54:54 <nslater> heh
11:56:27 <sbp> phenny: "La fama tinge d'immortalità i nomi dei dotti arrivati al tramonto delle loro vite sapienti. Ed è un colore che resta, non come quei colori dell'iride che appaiono al tramonto e svaniscono subito dopo."?
11:56:34 <phenny> sbp: "The reputation dyes of immortality the names of the scholars arrives you to the sunset of their screw sages. And it is a color that remains, not like those colors of the iride that they appear to the sunset and they vanish endured after." (it)
11:56:37 <sbp> xover: evidence either way. I suspect that they're wrong
11:56:45 <sbp> Johnson says "tint", as I say
11:57:02 <nslater> .ety tine
11:57:03 <phenny> "O.E. tind, a general Gmc. word (cf. O.H.G. zint 'sharp point, spike,' O.N. tindr 'tine, point, top, summit,' Ger. Zinne 'pinnacle'), of unknown origin." - http://etymonline.com/?term=tine
11:57:10 <nslater> .ety tint
11:57:11 <phenny> "'color,' 1717, alteration of tinct (1602), from L. tinctus 'a dyeing,' from tingere 'to dye' (see tincture); infl. by It. tinta 'tint, hue,' from L. tinctus." - http://etymonline.com/?term=tint
11:57:19 <sbp> tint makes much more sense to me
11:57:21 * nslater looks confuzzled
11:57:28 <sbp> http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Fame_is_the_tine_that_Scholars_leave
11:57:32 <sbp> that's the version with tine in it
11:57:42 <sbp> it's much more common on the web
11:57:46 <xover> I'd entertain the opposite argument were it presented.
11:58:08 <nslater> hmm, I can't imagine what kind of thing a sharp point would be analogous to
11:58:48 <sbp> well there's only one book on Google Books with "tine"
11:58:52 <sbp> all the rest say "tint"
11:59:06 <sbp> including Johnson, the main authoritative version as far as I'm aware
11:59:07 <nslater> hmm, unless it means fame or summit, then it could be read as fame is the pinnacle the scholars leave upon their names
11:59:10 <nslater> or something...
11:59:10 <xover> Well then it's settled then...
11:59:23 <sbp> but why do so many websites say "tine"?
11:59:29 <sbp> did they all just copy from one another?
11:59:39 <nslater> well, that is how I would imagine it happening
11:59:49 <nslater> there will be some old and authoritative source that has tine
11:59:53 <sbp> it's a ratio of 424:50, tine:tint
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12:01:03 <nslater> it kinda makes more sense that it would be tine when combined in a sentence with fame and the concept of leaving behind some effect on their name
12:01:17 <nslater> ... but what would I know
12:01:23 <sbp> why does that make sense?
12:01:30 <sbp> in a star-ypointing pyramid kind of way?
12:01:46 <nslater> no, in a summit/pinnacle sort of way
12:01:56 <nslater> fame == pinnacle
12:02:12 <nslater> or rather, there is a connection their
12:02:14 <sbp> how can you leave a pinnacle upon a name?
12:02:32 <sbp> I was thinking, if it's tine, that a set of brambles would make more sense
12:02:37 <nslater> well, how can you die it a colour either?
12:03:11 <sbp> you can't, but it makes more metaphorical sense to me
12:03:16 <nslater> sure
12:03:29 <sbp> I mean, tint is more commonly used as a metaphor
12:03:30 <nslater> .. I probably agree
12:03:37 <nslater> what, now or then?
12:03:48 <sbp> well, fairly moot anyway: it's not that you can really use commonality as an argument where Dickinson is concerned... :-)
12:04:15 <sbp> here's a test
12:04:25 <sbp> what does this mean, do you think? “Lest you meet my Snake and suppose I deceive it was robbed of me -- defeated too of the third line by the punctuation. The third and fourth were one -- I had told you I did not print -- I feared you might think me ostensible.”
12:04:35 <sbp> it's from a Dickinson letter
12:04:52 <nslater> sounds like something an irc bot might say :p
12:05:17 <sbp> Mary-Clare Goller introduces it thus: “
12:05:17 <sbp> Emily Dickinson: A Private Publisher
12:05:17 <sbp> By MaryClare Goller
12:05:19 <sbp> Background
12:05:21 <sbp> In contemporary terms, Emily Dickinson was an unpublished poet during her life and for many years afterward. She did not have works in "print" while a living poet. She was not a secret poet -- one who writes without others knowing. Rather, she was a poet in seclusion. Upon her death her sister found forty bound-hand sewn-volumes or fascicles of poetry. On the average each volume contained twenty poems. This collection of work was in addition to the hundreds of poe
12:05:27 *** sbp has parted #swhack ("Leaving")
12:05:28 <twe> And, it's not poetry.
12:05:52 <nslater> you were snipped at "hundreds of poe"
12:05:57 <nslater> ... which made me laugh
12:07:28 *** sbp (i=sbp@66.9.179.67) has joined #swhack
12:07:36 <nslater> you were snipped at "hundreds of poe"
12:08:22 <sbp> choxelles. I accidentally mispasted the whole enormous page
12:08:29 <nslater> hehe, nub ;)
12:08:30 <sbp> had to quit the client to stop it from flooding yer asses off
12:08:32 <sbp> alright, she introduces it thus: [[[
12:08:34 <sbp> In a letter to Thomas Higginson, dated 1866, Dickinson expresses her irritation at misrepresentation in printed form:
12:08:37 <sbp> ]]]
12:08:45 <sbp> totally Firefox's fault! :-)
12:08:49 <sbp> I really didn't see it select the whole page
12:09:02 <nslater> you could just past the uri :/
12:09:09 <sbp> also, if 2px is the difference between one paragraph and the whole rest of the page... I submit that that is not particularly good design
12:09:15 <twe> And in response to that paragraph.
12:09:24 <sbp> well the rest of the page is irrelevant
12:09:26 <nslater> well it's open sauce, you should fix it ;)
12:10:08 * sbp fingers cleowsticca...
12:10:14 <nslater> wat
12:10:33 <sbp> it's my trusty metaphorical Anglo-Saxon sword
12:10:34 <nslater> two results in google for that word, both you and both in here
12:10:38 <sbp> heh, heh
12:10:51 <sbp> I have one metaphorical sword, and one metaphorical horse
12:10:51 <nslater> meh, I was joking, I actually hate that response :p
12:10:59 <nslater> whats the horse called?
12:11:04 <sbp> Big Brown Riding Hoof
12:11:12 <nslater> also, I'm not sure I understood the significance of your citation
12:11:13 <sbp> (affectionately, “Hoofie”)
12:11:16 <nslater> hehe
12:11:29 <nslater> what's the ety of cleowsticca
12:11:39 <sbp> just that it's bloody hard to understand bits of Dickinson without a) a lot of Dickinson learning, and b) context
12:11:47 <nslater> okay sure
12:11:51 <sbp> cleow = OE. for clue
12:11:55 <sbp> sticca = OE. for stick
12:12:00 <nslater> ahahah
12:12:03 <sbp> :-)
12:12:17 <nslater> OE = olde englishe?
12:12:22 <sbp> aye
12:12:41 <xover> «An act of harrowing.»
12:12:52 <nslater> yay, not as dumb as I thought I was then
12:13:12 <xover> «“A double tynd, or teind, is harrowing the same piece of ground twice at the same yoking.”»
12:13:32 <sbp> if you went back to P.Gmc it would be kliwjostikkon
12:13:41 <sbp> see http://swhack.com/logs/2007-07-25#T11-42-55 for details
12:13:43 <nslater> I noticed...
12:13:47 <nslater> ... already there
12:13:47 <xover> «A vessel for brewing; a tub, vat.»
12:13:48 <sbp> :-)
12:13:56 <sbp> xover: yeah, noticed all these too
12:14:01 <sbp> actually, that's an idea
12:14:05 <xover> Right.
12:14:07 <sbp> .g Dickinson Lexicon
12:14:08 <phenny> sbp: http://edl.byu.edu/
12:14:18 <sbp> let's see what the Dickinson Lexicon has to say
12:14:29 <nslater> 0 results found for tine.
12:14:55 <sbp> yup
12:14:58 <sbp> http://edl.byu.edu/lexicon/t/26 - tint is there
12:15:03 <nslater> yup
12:15:29 <sbp> I'm fixing Wikisource with this evidence
12:17:11 <sbp> hmm. how do I move a page...
12:17:29 <xover> Log in and use the bug “Move” button at the top of the page?
12:17:34 <nslater> hmm, usually requires the right privs, there will be a "Move" tab
12:19:38 <sbp> there, fixed manually
12:19:45 <sbp> I just created a new page and marked the old one for deletion
12:19:47 <Monty> sbp: You asked me to remind you to say _BJOERN IZ K your TRANSLATORING CONTRAPTION WORXED THX
12:19:49 <sbp> and fixed the sequence links
12:20:12 <_bjoern> thx Monty but I know
12:20:12 <sbp> Monty: I'm pretty sure I didn't lowercase "your"
12:20:13 <Monty> why
12:20:19 <Monty> Bought them a widespread, medium-sized, omnivorous mammal native to bed anyway .. maybe has announced that would follow. The T-rex's escape
12:20:25 <nslater> heh
12:20:33 <sbp> .title http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Fame_is_the_tint_that_Scholars_leave
12:20:34 <_bjoern> loggy, pointer
12:20:34 <loggy> http://swhack.com/logs/2008-03-26#T12-20-34
12:20:34 <xover> That doesn't leave a redirect in place, creating 404s, and doesn't deal with the Wikisource-internal links to that page.
12:20:34 <phenny> sbp: Fame is the tint that Scholars leave - Wikisource
12:20:48 <sbp> xover: which is why an admin will have to deal with it
12:21:04 * nslater laughs
12:21:04 <_bjoern> you were all "_BJOERN IZ K MY TRANSLATORING CONTRAPTION WORXED THX"
12:21:27 <sbp> oo, right
12:21:38 <sbp> (oo was a typo that I am instantly fond of)
12:22:49 <lisppaste2> sbp pasted "Wikisource changes" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/58025
12:26:25 <sbp> http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/gallery/2007/feb/27/yourphotos?picture=333174186 - moon
12:27:19 <nslater> awe, jeez...
12:27:34 *** leobard (n=Miranda@88-134-43-245-dynip.superkabel.de) has joined #swhack
12:27:53 <nslater> ... I was browsings through some swhack logs from 2007, found a link to www.dnbots.com from sbp and have been browsing it with interest, which lead me to http://bytesexual.info/
12:27:58 * nslater facepalms
12:28:49 <sbp> heh
12:29:08 <nslater> I mean, what is that website? It makes no sense, who would bother hosting it? bah
12:29:11 <sbp> who made that?
12:29:16 <sbp> mmm
12:29:17 <nslater> absolutely no idea
12:29:41 <sbp> Rob Gubler, apparently
12:29:46 <sbp> this is interesting: http://www.ohiostatepress.org/Books/Book%20PDFs/Heginbotham%20Reading.pdf
12:29:52 <sbp> or interestine, or interetint
12:30:44 <sbp> only an excerpt, sadly
12:30:48 <sbp> but a big excerpt
12:33:03 <sbp> [[[
12:33:04 <sbp> When Ralph Franklin published the Manuscript Books of Emily Dickinson
12:33:04 <sbp> in 1981, he offered the closest thing to the unmediated mind of the artist
12:33:04 <sbp> Emily Dickinson that all but those fortunate few who use the carefully guarded
12:33:04 <sbp> library holdings will ever encounter.
12:33:05 <sbp> ]]]
12:33:37 <nslater> .wik httpbis
12:33:38 <phenny> Can't find anything in Wikipedia for "httpbis".
12:34:13 <sbp> note the parallelism of poet-critic and historian-critic in what I've been writing about on Whits, by the way
12:34:48 <sbp> think of it as embodied criticism, in the cognitive sciences idiom
12:35:15 <xover> Stupid CSS! DWIM!
12:36:06 <sbp> trying to unravel the frippery of criticism, I suppose
12:36:15 <nslater> .ety frippery
12:36:15 <phenny> "1568, 'old clothes, cast-off garments,' from M.Fr. friperie 'old clothes, an old clothes shop,' from O.Fr. freperie, from frepe 'rag,' from L.L. faluppa 'chip, splinter, straw, fiber.' The notion is of 'things worn down, clothes rubbed to rags.' The ironic meaning [...]" - http://etymonline.com/?term=frippery
12:36:36 <sbp> ‘The ironic meaning "finery" (but with overtones of tawdriness) dates from 1637.’
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12:41:14 <nslater> .c 1150.00 EURO in GBP
12:41:14 <phenny> 1 150.00 Euros = 893.406177 British pounds
12:41:23 <nslater> sbp: do you think that's a formatting bug?
12:49:56 *** jsled (n=jsled@dsl195.burlvtma.sover.net) has joined #swhack
12:49:56 <Monty> But what does jsled have to do with the price of fish?
12:51:15 * xover briefly wonders what the point of “outline” is…
12:51:26 <nslater> dunno, but he has something to do with the price of plums
12:51:27 <plum> dunno is django incompatible with twisted?
12:51:33 <nslater> probably not
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12:58:10 <laplink> .title http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article2328620.ece
12:58:17 <phenny> laplink: Explosion danger prompts more evacuations - Aftenposten.no
12:58:41 <laplink> NO! WRONG!
12:59:14 <laplink> «Five feared dead in building collapse»
12:59:57 <nslater> .ety byzantine
12:59:57 <phenny> "1599, from L. Byzantinus, originally used of art style; later in reference to the complex, devious, and intriguing character of the royal court of Constantinople." - http://etymonline.com/?term=byzantine
13:00:05 <nslater> nice
13:00:11 <laplink> .title http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article2328238.ece
13:00:13 <phenny> laplink: Developer: 'Beyond our control' - Aftenposten.no
13:00:26 <laplink> .gc frostsprengning
13:00:27 <phenny> frostsprengning: 1,120
13:00:37 <nslater> .ety frostsprengning
13:00:38 <phenny> Can't find the etymology for "frostsprengning". Try http://etymonline.com/?search=frostsprengning
13:01:41 <laplink> It's the Norwegian word for what happens when water inside, say, rocks freezes and expands; and “explodes” the rock.
13:02:21 <laplink> “frost-exploding” or somesuch, would be the literal translation.
13:03:19 <laplink> It's a quite common concept in .no since the climate is such that there is a lot of moisture and the temperature waffles around the freezing point a lot.
13:04:17 <sbp> formatting bug?
13:04:23 <sbp> oh, no, Google really outputs that
13:04:26 <nslater> "1 150.00"
13:04:39 <laplink> Most rockslides and landslides are, iirc, caused by this effect; and it's a significant problem causing much property and infrastructure damage, and lives, every year.
13:04:52 <nslater> weird...
13:06:03 <sbp> nslater: think of it like Björk
13:06:10 <nslater> hmm?
13:06:20 <_bjoern> You don't know Björk??
13:06:23 <laplink> .title http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article2326641.ece
13:06:25 <phenny> laplink: Language under assault - Aftenposten.no
13:06:36 <nslater> oh course I know Björk, uber hawt ;)
13:06:46 <nslater> not sure what it has to do with number formatting issues
13:06:57 <sbp> I was referring to frostsprengning
13:07:15 <nslater> what does Björk have to do with frost explosions?
13:07:29 <laplink> .title http://www.aftenposten.no/english/business/article2326221.ece
13:07:30 <sbp> cute idea, but actually quite violent
13:07:31 <phenny> laplink: Oil fund exposed to troubled US mortgage market - Aftenposten.no
13:07:40 <_bjoern> Björk is quite violent?
13:07:46 <nslater> sbp: oh my, that's terrible
13:07:54 <nslater> _bjoern: she attacks press reports and such
13:08:01 <nslater> *reporters
13:08:02 <laplink> Björk is quite violent to the senses, yes.
13:08:21 <nslater> she's pretty easy on my senses ;)
13:08:33 * sbp imagines Björk leaping on a copy of the Telegraph
13:08:41 <nslater> lol
13:09:38 <sbp> biting down her teeth into its delicious pulp
13:09:48 <nslater> .g york showtimes horton
13:09:48 <phenny> nslater: http://charlotte.ohsohandy.com/movie/show/dr-seuss-horton-hears-a-who
13:09:50 <sbp> ...this could be a good slash if someone wrote it up
13:09:52 <nslater> bah
13:11:18 <xover> .wik Frost heaving
13:11:19 <phenny> "Frost heaving (or frost heave) occurs when soil expands and contracts due to freezing and thawing." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frost_heaving
13:23:42 *** kpreid has quit ()
13:25:38 <sbp> .gd ostraca
13:25:39 <phenny> ostraca: An ostracon (Greek: ὄστρακον ostrakon, plural ὄστρακα ostraka) is a piece of pottery (or stone), usually broken off from a vase ...
13:25:47 <sbp> .wik Ostracon
13:25:47 <phenny> "An ostracon (Greek: όστρακον ostrakon, plural όστρακα ostraka) is a piece of pottery (or stone), usually broken off from a vase or other earthenware vessel." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostracon
13:31:34 *** leobard has quit ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
13:36:49 * nsh ostraconises sbp
13:39:35 * sbp gets an account at the University of Michigan and asks if he can be subscribed to “Radical Scatters”
13:39:46 <sbp> cf. http://www.emilydickinson.org/radical_scatters.html
13:39:52 <nsh> there's a name pregnant with potential coolness
13:40:26 <sbp> it's much along the lines of a sensible resource, except behind an access barrier
13:40:44 <sbp> [[[
13:40:44 <sbp> (1) graphic files containing high-quality images of the fragments and related texts; (2) graphic files containing diplomatic transcriptions displaying the full compositional process of the fragments and related texts from both spatial and temporal perspectives; (3) files containing SGML-marked e-texts of the fragments and related texts; and (4) files containing various paratexts, including indices to the documents in the archive
13:40:45 <sbp> ]]]
13:40:47 *** therethinker has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
13:40:54 <nsh> .gs para-*
13:40:55 <phenny> para-*: aminobenzoic (4), sexiphenyl (2), phernalia (2)
13:41:07 <nsh> you're a para-sexy phenyl
13:41:09 <sbp> that's about the sensible extent of what one can hope for online for this sort of thing at the moment. well, a good UI too perhaps
13:41:12 <sbp> hehe
13:43:57 *** pixel (n=pixel@pond.leapfroginteractive.com) has joined #swhack
13:45:15 <sbp> [[[
13:45:16 <sbp> The most disappointing readings of Dickinson texts stemmed from students' failure to read these texts in context- i.e., to account for the poems' various states, intended audience(s), positions (bound, unbound, mailed) within Dickinson's oeuvre, print histories, etc. These readings treated poems in the archives as they would have treated poems on the printed page-that is, as contextless, or, to use a word familiar to Dickinson scholars, "sceneless."
13:45:21 <sbp> ]]] - http://www.mith.umd.edu/mithologies/werner.html
13:45:58 <_bjoern> S G M L
13:46:33 <xover> .comp sgml lmgs xml lmx
13:46:35 <phenny> xml (517,000,000), sgml (14,600,000), lmx (983,000), lmgs (53,100)
13:46:54 <nslater> .u small ae
13:46:54 <phenny> U+00E6 LATIN SMALL LETTER AE (æ)
13:50:38 *** leobard (n=Miranda@dfki-046.dfki.uni-kl.de) has joined #swhack
13:50:48 <sbp> ah, it's no longer hosted at the University of Michigan
13:51:03 <sbp> it's at the University of Nebraska, Lincoln
13:51:49 <nsh> for some reason
13:52:10 <nsh> in my head that expanded to "university of nebraska, lincoln, nebraska, lincoln, nebraska....."
13:52:23 <nsh> and then i saw teh ceiling cat
13:54:19 * sbp writes kindly to them
13:54:21 <sbp> hehe
13:54:41 <sbp> “I'd very much like to be subscribed to the Radical Scatters [1] resource, if at all possible. If you could either subscribe me immediately or outline the procedure for obtaining such subscription, I'd be most grateful.”
13:55:06 <nsh> s/immediately/post haste/
13:55:17 <sbp> heh. too late
13:55:31 <sbp> plus I take it that you're joking :-)
13:56:09 <sbp> just indicating that they don't have to wait for my approval to use my email address for login details or whatever
13:56:22 * nsh smiles
13:56:34 *** swhask has quit (Remote closed the connection)
13:56:39 *** eel has quit (Remote closed the connection)
13:57:02 <nsh> i'm trying to think of ways to imaginately include (generalisations of) the phantom time hypothesis in my everyday interactions
13:57:31 <sbp> “I think you're making yesterday up” might be a good one
13:58:05 * nwalsh chuckles
13:58:25 <nsh> i was once planning to do some street theatre where i tried to sell a day of someone's life back to them
13:58:31 <nsh> but i decided it would take too much preparation
13:59:07 <sbp> yeah, you'd have to compile dossiers on all the people likely to walk past you that day
13:59:21 <sbp> which is obviously terrorism
13:59:26 <nsh> ayup
13:59:51 <nslater> .wik phantom time
13:59:53 <phenny> "The Phantom time hypothesis is a theory developed by Heribert Illig (born 1947 in Vohenstrauß) in 1991." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_time_hypothesis
14:00:02 * nslater heads on over in interest
14:00:13 <nslater> oh my, isn't that weird
14:00:22 <nslater> ... I got to this page via tafting t'other night
14:00:30 <nslater> very interesting
14:00:31 <sbp> we mentioned it in here before
14:00:54 <nslater> nope, I am pretty sure I ended up here via pure taft
14:00:58 <sbp> nslater: http://swhack.com/logs/2008-03-19#T02-32-14
14:01:02 <sbp> we showed you it and you said "wow"
14:01:14 <nslater> hmm...
14:01:19 <xover> FAIL!
14:01:57 <nsh> recollectiowned
14:01:59 <nslater> well, kind of fail, I didn't actually read the article at that point, I am sure that I ended up there a few days later
14:02:04 <nslater> so, pah
14:02:08 *** sbp changed the topic to: "<nsh> recollectiowned"
14:02:39 <sbp> well _bjoern and I still can't remember the bash.org bots names
14:02:59 <xover> That's because they don't exist!
14:03:09 <sbp> are you saying we invented that day?
14:03:15 <xover> Yes!
14:03:37 <xover> LIES! LIES! ALL LIES!
14:03:43 <nsh> .gs phantom * theory
14:03:44 <phenny> phantom * theory: pain (4), driver (3), wolf (2), vision (2), sun (2), space (2), rock studio (2), plane (2), norms (2), network (2), limb syndrome a (2), limb (2)
14:03:48 <nsh> .gs phantom * hypothesis
14:03:48 <_bjoern> LIES! LIES! ALL LIES!
14:03:49 <phenny> phantom * hypothesis: time (83), limb (3), sensations rps one (2)
14:03:56 * xover realises he needs a cigarette right fucking pronto…
14:04:01 <nslater> lol
14:05:19 * laplink lights one up and sighs contently…
14:05:30 <nslater> bah, stop tempting me pls
14:05:44 * nslater smokes a plum
14:05:44 <plum> pls notice the quotes, did you a poof of smoke? rofl
14:05:56 <nsh> lawl
14:06:04 <laplink> They should teach kids to smoke from like kindergarden.
14:06:09 <_bjoern> What's now, are we turning #Swhack into a smoking quitters self help group?
14:06:10 <sbp> they don't?
14:06:19 <nsh> mekano-pip, is it ok to smoke just to look cool?
14:06:20 <mekano-pip> nsh: I DONT THINK IT AR VERY HEALTHY. KTHX.
14:06:35 <nsh> mekano-pip, what if you're an action hero?
14:06:36 <mekano-pip> nsh: TRY IT AND SEE.
14:06:42 <nsh> mekano-pip, ok thx!
14:06:43 <mekano-pip> nsh: GEE.
14:06:50 * nwalsh would prefer to keep his lungs pink and moist, if its all the same to you
14:06:53 <sbp> Action Hero nsh
14:07:07 <nsh> i can be twe's sidewinder-busting sidekick
14:07:14 <twe> I can be as a sidekick.
14:07:16 <laplink> nwalsh: You don't know what you're missing!
14:07:20 <nslater> twe busts sidewinders?
14:07:25 <_bjoern> Smoking makes one hates ones life a lot less I heard.
14:07:37 <laplink> It tastes like metaphorical heroin, it's so good!
14:07:41 <twe> nslater: Strange. I seem to be very good handle on the five busts on the projector behind you, and active but i strongly suspect that was the first thing to remember where i staying.
14:07:43 <_bjoern> ETOOMANYLETTERS
14:07:50 <nwalsh> laplink, I disagree. I was talked into smoking a cigar once, at about 3:30a after substantial quantities of beer and scotch.
14:07:56 <nsh> eww
14:07:59 <nslater> twe: you have your hands on who's busts?
14:07:59 <nsh> cigars are nasty
14:08:10 <nslater> GOOD cigars are lovely
14:08:18 <laplink> Cigars are sexual aids, not something you smoke for pleasure.
14:08:21 <nslater> but they are also expensive, and rare
14:08:21 <twe> nslater: Maybe that's your idea of removing a leading figure in british politics between 1721 and 1742; the clique led by labor activists, students, and intellectuals in the main settlement of the hands with the one on http://producingoss.com.
14:08:25 <nwalsh> It was the smell reaking out of my pores at the WG meeting the next day that did me in. And the hangover didn't help.
14:08:27 <nsh> ....
14:08:40 * nsh worries that twe might end up on a blacklist
14:08:41 <sbp> oh yeah, smoking is like curry
14:08:44 <nslater> nwalsh: true, nothing is worse than the smell of stale cigar
14:08:57 <nwalsh> Don't inhale smoke. It seems so obvious in retrospect.
14:09:08 <laplink> Conformist!
14:09:20 <nsh> Proteist!
14:09:20 <nwalsh> Mmmm. Curry. Now there's a vice I'll happily indulge in. Damn. Now I'm hungry. Where's breakfast?
14:09:31 <nslater> curry? for breakfast?
14:09:32 * sbp also is hungry... time for foods!
14:09:33 <nsh> breakfast is grazing with dinner
14:09:40 * nslater eats a plum
14:09:41 <plum> damn you now the dinner that youre next going to right?
14:09:44 * laplink hands nwalsh a pile of tobacco leaves…
14:10:06 <nsh> what's that thing that yogabunnies do with tobacco?
14:10:07 * nwalsh builds an oragami platypus from the leaves
14:10:14 <nsh> some kinda native american silliness
14:10:44 * laplink puts nwalsh in a pipe and smokes him…
14:11:33 <laplink> Ah, wonderfull 7 minutes, how fast you go by…
14:12:08 * nwalsh evaporates in a puff of smoke
14:12:08 <xover> Right, where was I?
14:12:09 *** nwalsh has quit ("</norm>")
14:12:18 * nslater rolls an nsh cigarette, throws in some toaststools
14:12:32 <xover> phenny: ask nwalsh Was it something I said? :-)
14:12:33 <phenny> xover: I'll pass that on when nwalsh is around.
14:13:12 <nsh> they'd better be chalky, goddamnit
14:13:26 <nslater> and wind-up, don't worry old bean
14:13:35 <nsh> good on, sir, good on
14:14:51 <sbp> .wik List of additives in cigarettes
14:14:51 <phenny> "This is the list of 599 additives in cigarettes submitted to the Department of Health and Human Services in April of 1994." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_additives_in_cigarettes
14:14:52 * _bjoern waits for someone to go all HEY I QUIT JUST A FEW WEEKS AGO AND YOU PPL ARE KILLING ME
14:15:23 <nsh> the question is
14:15:33 <sbp> yummy: 2-Ethyl-1-Hexanol,3-Ethyl-2-Hydroxy-2-Cyclopenten-1-One
14:15:40 <nsh> why the hell do you have to add 599 chemicles to an already perfect plant?!
14:15:51 <nslater> it's to make it burn
14:15:53 <sbp> hey, don't dis 2-Ethyl-1-Hexanol,3-Ethyl-2-Hydroxy-2-Cyclopenten-1-One mang
14:15:56 <nsh> oh wait, nicotine cigarettes
14:15:57 <nsh> i see
14:16:00 <nslater> notice how fags never go out?
14:16:13 <nslater> it's because of all the gunpowder they put in it, and other stuff
14:16:17 <_bjoern> No. Do you know many?
14:16:39 *** kpreid (n=kpreid@cpe-24-59-154-165.twcny.res.rr.com) has joined #swhack
14:16:42 <sbp> ah, here we go:
14:16:44 <sbp> .wik Smoke constituents
14:16:45 <phenny> "List of additives in cigarettes" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoke_constituents
14:16:53 <_bjoern> .wik Hexanal
14:16:54 <phenny> "Hexanal, or hexanaldehyde, is an alkyl aldehyde used in the flavor industry to produce fruity flavors.[2]|" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexanal
14:17:01 <sbp> right, or: “According to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services[1], the following carcinogens are found in cigarette smoke:”
14:17:32 <_bjoern> .gc 4-(2,6,6-Trimethylcyclohexa-1,3-Dienyl)But-2-En-4-One
14:17:33 <phenny> 4-(2,6,6-Trimethylcyclohexa-1,3-Dienyl)But-2-En-4-One : 951
14:17:58 <sbp> hey, some good old-fashioned benzene
14:18:29 <sbp> hydrazine! cigarettes have rocket fuel in 'em
14:18:38 <nsh> the guy who discovered the chemical structure of benzene
14:18:43 <nslater> heh
14:18:45 <nsh> saw it in a dream
14:18:47 <_bjoern> Chocolate is one of the 599
14:18:48 <sbp> isoprene, an explosive
14:18:52 <nsh> after smoking sweet rings of malboro
14:18:53 <sbp> _bjoern: and honey
14:19:08 * nslater wants to smoke now
14:19:11 <sbp> “2-Naphthylamine is an aromatic amine. It is used to make azo dyes. It is a known human carcinogen and has largely been replaced by less toxic compounds.” - except in cigarettes
14:19:25 <_bjoern> The best flavours were all created in accidents?
14:19:26 <sbp> (as the page itself notes)
14:19:48 <xover> .wik Arsenic
14:19:48 <phenny> "Arsenic (pronounced /ˈɑrs|ə|nɪk/) is a chemical element that has the symbol As and atomic number 33." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenic
14:19:50 <_bjoern> "Walnut Hull Extract"
14:20:01 <sbp> another particularly potent one: “N-Nitrosodimethylamine (NDMA), also known as dimethylnitrosamine (DMN), is a semi-volatile organic chemical that is highly toxic and is a suspected human carcinogen.”
14:20:26 <kwijibo> do you still get those packets of cigarette shaped chocolates with edible papers?
14:21:01 <nsh> oh man, they were cool
14:21:03 <sbp> I like the sugar cigarettes
14:21:09 <nsh> they were also cool
14:21:20 <sbp> bet they don't do them anymore
14:21:24 <sbp> for shame, if so!
14:21:27 <kwijibo> the really skinny white ones?
14:21:30 <sbp> yeah
14:21:40 <kwijibo> nah, a bit chewy and sweet
14:21:47 <sbp> mmm... chewy and sweet
14:21:56 <kwijibo> they taste like those pink shrimp penny chews?
14:22:02 * nsh suddenly wants some Parma Violets
14:22:05 <sbp> ooh, yes. a bit
14:22:17 <kwijibo> parmaviolets++
14:22:20 <nsh> man, what i'd do for some parma violets and prawn-cocktail crisps
14:22:22 <sbp> parma violets are great until you glut on them
14:22:31 <nsh> yeah, you gotta tread the line carefully
14:22:39 <kwijibo> you have to go to special effort to do that
14:22:44 <kwijibo> they come in such small packets
14:22:49 <kwijibo> maybe that's why
14:22:53 <nsh> mmm
14:22:57 <kwijibo> too many people ODed on pv
14:23:15 <nsh> i think it caused a few witchery outbreaks
14:23:25 <nsh> .gs the * stick
14:23:26 <phenny> the * stick: borgia (7), talking (6), intracell (5), cinnamon (5), exploding (4), crooked (4), carrot (4), blackthorn (4), walking (3), pugil (3), odor (3)
14:23:28 <kwijibo> like how you can only buy paracetemol in packs of 12 or whatever it is
14:23:29 <sbp> “The origins of the parma violet are a source of some mystique. First imported into Naples a certain Count Brazza took the plant to Udine in the latter part of the 19th century.” - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parma_violet
14:23:56 * nsh ponders searching for all wikipedia articles with the word "mystique" in them
14:24:03 <nsh> and then doing some burroughs style cut-up
14:24:21 <sbp> I would just like to put in a word for chupa chups
14:24:25 <sbp> and blackjacks. and refreshers
14:24:27 <sbp> and dib-dabs
14:24:43 *** pixel has quit ()
14:24:56 <sbp> and choc dips
14:25:03 <nsh> truly this.
14:25:04 <sbp> and aniseed twists
14:25:18 <nsh> everton mints had their moments too
14:25:26 <sbp> ooh, yes
14:25:31 <sbp> and Fox's glaciers
14:25:32 <nsh> ever try the iron brew bars?
14:25:38 <sbp> nope?
14:25:47 <nsh> ah man, they were pwn in stick-shaped form
14:25:53 <sbp> aw
14:26:12 <nsh> shrimps also, on the penny front
14:26:25 <sbp> yeah, kwijibo mentioned them
14:26:32 <sbp> bananas of the same kind also good
14:26:42 <kwijibo> irnbru bars++
14:26:44 <nsh> blackjacks/fruitsalads were always a bit hit-and-miss, simply on the sticky-old-paper side
14:26:48 <kwijibo> desperate dan bars
14:27:06 <sbp> ooh, fruit salads. yeah, definitely better in the winter months...
14:27:08 * nsh went through a stage of being addicted to tooty-fruities
14:27:10 <kwijibo> both types were pretty desperate
14:27:14 <sbp> oh. man
14:27:21 <sbp> tooty-fruities fucking *ruled*
14:27:27 <sbp> especially the red ones
14:27:29 <nsh> indubitably
14:27:29 <nsh> yah
14:27:34 <nsh> there was something in those...
14:27:38 <sbp> mmm
14:27:39 <nsh> something i've never tasted since
14:27:48 <kwijibo> I love aniseed balls
14:27:50 <nsh> i think it was essence of mystique
14:27:59 <nsh> they were cool, also everlasting gobstoppers
14:28:00 <sbp> kwijibo: with the little pip inside?
14:28:02 <kwijibo> aniseed twists however rip out the roof of your mouith
14:28:10 <kwijibo> yeah
14:28:14 <sbp> ooh, remember the colour-changing gobstoppers?
14:28:19 <sbp> is that what you mean by the everlasting ones?
14:28:20 <kwijibo> really corrossive
14:28:22 <nsh> yeah, sbp
14:28:27 <sbp> sweet
14:28:39 <nsh> oo
14:28:43 <nsh> sherbert fountains
14:28:54 <sbp> with the liqourice?
14:28:57 <nsh> yah
14:28:59 <nslater> hmmmm
14:29:03 <nslater> om nom nom
14:29:09 <sbp> they looked like sticks of dynamite that you EAT
14:29:12 <nsh> but the paper tube would tend to soggy-biscuits
14:29:13 <nsh> yeah manb
14:29:15 <kwijibo> you get really nice soft chewing licquorice from Julian Graves
14:29:20 <nslater> they still make em don't they, same packaging?
14:29:31 <sbp> quite possibly. I know some of these still exist
14:29:33 <nsh> somewhere, somewhere
14:29:42 <nslater> I am thinking about the sherbert fountains
14:29:56 <kwijibo> mmm, popping candy
14:29:58 <sbp> ah. can't remember seeing them recently
14:29:58 <nslater> ... would be nice for auld times sake, but nsh is correct about the annoying soggy-biscuits
14:30:23 <sbp> last time I bought sweets it was getting a bit disturbing
14:30:31 <sbp> like they had this "candy" which was an aerosol
14:30:36 <nslater> heh, you're getting old :p
14:30:40 <sbp> you spray it in your mouth and it's like concentrated flavour
14:30:43 <nslater> ugh
14:30:49 <nsh> yeah...
14:30:52 <nsh> what's that about..
14:30:56 <nslater> I actually have a little bit of sick in my mouth.
14:31:02 <sbp> plus it costs like £7.50
14:31:05 <nsh> pop candy was my limit on the experimental front
14:31:06 <nslater> hahaha
14:31:22 <nslater> my favourites were blackjacks and fruitsalads
14:31:31 <nslater> nice and simple
14:32:24 <sbp> ahahaha:
14:32:25 <sbp> [super super gay porn with old men and donkeys and shit.]
14:32:29 <sbp> referrer of the day so far!
14:32:30 <nslater> hahaha
14:32:38 <sbp> no just porn
14:32:41 <sbp> not just gay porn
14:32:48 <sbp> super *super* gay porn. with old men. and donkeys. and shit
14:33:01 <kwijibo> I liked those aniseed jelly things covered in sprinkles you get iwth licquorice allsorts
14:33:12 <kwijibo> all the srest of the allsorts are rubbish
14:33:20 <sbp> yeah, not massively keen
14:33:29 <kwijibo> but if you had a whole back of the jelly thungs you'd be sick probably
14:33:37 <sbp> really I think stuff like allsorts and marzipan is for the '70s generation
14:33:39 * nslater likes sugarplums
14:33:40 <plum> yes, but yeah, yeah heh, well yeah. lmao
14:33:49 * nslater facepalms
14:34:26 * sbp pantodrums along to Please Don't Tease
14:34:41 <xover> Apparently, Salmiakklakris has become extinct in .no since last I checked. :-(
14:34:56 <sbp> I still have a bundle. yaynsh
14:35:20 <sbp> though you're probably talking about a drink or meat or some specificity
14:35:29 <sbp> ah, nope
14:35:43 <sbp> dang man, I have more salmiakki than Norway
14:35:44 <sbp> ftw
14:35:59 <nsh> .gs more * than norway
14:36:00 <phenny> more * than norway: tolerant (3), beautiful (3), slender (2), sensitive (2), secularized (2), secular (2), retailers (2), resistant (2), often (2), liberal (2)
14:36:20 <nsh> more slender than norway?
14:36:22 <xover> That's… interesting.
14:36:31 * nsh tries to think of a country that fits that description
14:36:32 <sbp> xover: did you ever review pinnekjøtt?
14:36:34 <xover> .gs more * than england
14:36:35 <phenny> more * than england: snobbish (3), per capita (3), relaxed (2), murders (2), expensive (2), england (2), brutally (2)
14:36:41 <xover> .gs more * than america
14:36:42 <phenny> more * than america: favorably (4), vulnerable (3), socialist (3), righteous (3), racist (3), liberal (3), democratic (3), with europe (2), secular (2), rapidly (2)
14:36:50 <sbp> oh, you did
14:36:51 * nsh chuckles
14:36:52 <sbp> way before I asked
14:36:53 <sbp> 2008-03-13 12:32:13 <xover> Ribbe and Pinnekjøtt FTW!
14:37:00 <sbp> 2008-03-24 09:22:58 <sbp> phenny: ask xover is pinnekjøtt is any good. sounds delisch
14:37:04 <sbp> should pay more attention
14:37:09 <xover> Yeah, Pinnekjøtt is excellent.
14:38:48 <sbp> odd: http://amazon.ca/dp/0472002805
14:38:49 <sbp> .title
14:38:51 <phenny> sbp: Amazon.ca: Radical Scatters: Emily Dickinson's Fragments And Related Texts, 1870-1886: Marta L. Werner: Books
14:38:58 <sbp> IS NOT BEINK BOOK, K THX
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14:43:44 <nsh> right
14:43:44 <nsh> right
14:43:50 <nsh> say there's an aeroplane
14:43:56 <nsh> but it's on a conveyor belt
14:44:02 <nsh> and however fast the aeroplane moves
14:44:13 <nsh> the conveyor belt moves backwards at the same speed
14:44:20 <nsh> how many fucking idiots on the internet will fail discussing it?
14:44:27 <kpreid> nsh: ...heh
14:44:41 <nsh> (sry, hd2b sed)
14:45:22 <kpreid> under *that* formulation, it's well-defined and will just mean the plane's wheels are idling at 2x the speed they otherwise would...
14:45:24 <sbp> hehe
14:46:47 <kpreid> now under the phrasing "...as fast as necessary to keep the plane stationary", the answer depends on which thing fails to approximate Ideal Physics Land first
14:47:08 * nsh smiles
14:47:19 <kpreid> BURNIN' RUBBER!
14:47:24 <nsh> i would love to go to ideal physics land
14:47:25 <kpreid> or at least bearing oil
14:47:32 * sbp refinds http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~ajf2j/emily/stab.html - fascicle 16
14:47:34 <nslater> nsh: thats not true
14:47:36 <kpreid> or motor windings
14:47:39 <sbp> apparently there was a website of fascicle 26 once too
14:47:52 <sbp> around www.engl.virginia.edu/~ennc491/alabaster/text
14:48:00 <nslater> nsh: you're assuming no friction between the belt and the surface it sits on
14:48:11 <twe> Assuming there are choice to be synonymous with the bible belt.
14:48:17 <xover> nsh: http://www.intuitor.com/moviephysics/
14:48:21 <xover> .title
14:48:22 <phenny> xover: Intuitor Insultingly Stupid Movie Physics
14:48:29 * nsh gives nslater a look
14:48:49 <nsh> when did i give the impression that i could possibly deign to provide an opinion on this nonquestion?
14:48:52 <sbp> web.archive.org doesn't have a single image so far as I can find
14:49:04 <nsh> xover, cool
14:49:36 <clsn> airplane lift depends on relative speed of the airplane wrt the air over the wings; what the wheels are doing isn't relevant.
14:49:55 <sbp> clsn!
14:50:04 <sbp> any progress with ye Harvard PIN?
14:50:09 <sbp> I'm getting desparates
14:50:15 <kpreid> clsn: yeah but the "as fast as necessary" condition *would* stop the plane if you assume the conveyor is more ideal than the plane's wheel bearings
14:50:36 * xover thinks you all fail here…
14:51:19 <nsh> (((((HEI GUYS! TEH QUESHUN WUZ HIGHPFETICUL))))))
14:51:31 * kpreid ignores nsh.
14:51:37 <clsn> kpreid: I'm not seeing what the question is. If everything was installed from the Ideal Physics Shop, nothing terribly much should happen until the wheels start rotating relativistically or something.
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14:52:07 <clsn> Might be easier just to imagine the runway is frictionless instead of a moving conveyor belt.
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14:52:26 <clsn> sbp: well, I don't think I was allowed into that part of the harvard web, was I?
14:52:31 <clsn> What were we trying to get into again?
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14:53:17 <clsn> Owait, the plane isn't being driven by its wheels. nevermind.
14:54:58 <sbp> clsn: http://nrs.harvard.edu/urn-3:FHCL.HOUGH:1276245
14:55:00 <clsn> If the wheel-bearings are totally ideal, i.e. frictionless, then what the conveyor belt does isn't important. The jet will just push the plane forward.
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14:55:19 <sbp> I poked around and it said all students have a PIN and they're not deleted when students leave, or something like that
14:55:19 <clsn> So yeah, I suppose it just matters how non-ideal the wheel bearings are.
14:55:44 <clsn> Oh, so I'm supposed to have a PIN for that?
14:55:54 <kpreid> clsn: and tire rolling resistance and so on.
14:56:09 <nslater> why does it matter about the wheels if the thrust is from the engines?
14:56:26 <nslater> they could be nailed to the ground for all it matters, they would just snap off
14:56:34 <laplink> You need to take Quantum into account!
14:56:45 <sbp> utter bummer that the http://www.engl.virginia.edu/~ennc491/ stuff is gone
14:56:45 <kpreid> the wheels' job is to make the plane approximate being on a one-directionally frictionless surface...
14:56:53 <clsn> kpreid: Right. It depends how much the backward-moving conveyor belt can drag the plane backward.
14:56:53 <sbp> clsn: yeah
14:57:38 <clsn> Frictionlessness won't mean squat if the thrust is from the engine. The conveyor belt moving backward is meant to pull the plane backward, i.e. it exerts a force to counter the engine's.
14:58:06 <clsn> That force is transmitted by rolling friction, rotational inertia in the wheels, etc.
14:58:29 <sbp> ooh: [[[
14:58:30 <sbp> Other Emily Dickinson Fascicle Projects
14:58:30 <sbp> * Fascicle 1, edited by Joel Nickels, Joe Gross, and Kate Winslow
14:58:30 <sbp> * Fascicle 17, edited by David Riffle, Jennifer Weaver, and Stephanie Northrup
14:58:30 <sbp> ]]]
14:59:14 <clsn> mm... it said on the post-Harvard page that different places have different accessibilities...
14:59:32 <clsn> .head http://nrs.harvard.edu/urn-3:FHCL.HOUGH:1276245
14:59:32 <phenny> clsn: 302
15:00:15 <sbp> .head http://nrs.harvard.edu/urn-3:FHCL.HOUGH:1276245 Location
15:00:15 <phenny> Location: http://pds.lib.harvard.edu/pds/view/8453853
15:00:32 <sbp> .head http://pds.lib.harvard.edu/pds/view/8453853
15:00:33 <phenny> sbp: 302, 0 bytes
15:00:38 <sbp> .head http://pds.lib.harvard.edu/pds/view/8453853 Location
15:00:38 <phenny> Location: http://access.harvard.edu/access/servlet/access?__hulaccess_gateway=pds&__hulaccess_resource=8453853
15:01:12 <clsn> .head
15:01:13 <phenny> clsn: 302, 0 bytes
15:01:21 <clsn> Geez, how much redirection is there?
15:01:24 <sbp> hehe
15:01:27 <sbp> eek!
15:01:29 <clsn> .head http://access.harvard.edu/access/servlet/access?__hulaccess_gateway=pds&__hulaccess_resource=8453853 Location
15:01:30 <phenny> Location:
