00:00:31 <clsn> keywords don't seem to work at all for me. Just endless "search in progress"
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00:06:25 <procto> tried restarting your browser?
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00:31:07 <_bjoern> .gs federation *
00:31:08 <phenny> federation *: is (6), of (3), home (3), workgroup (2), with (2), uk (2), toys (2), to (2), press (2), nation (2), models (2), manager (2), incorporated (2), inc (2)
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00:33:13 <nslater> yo plum, hows it hanging?
00:33:13 <plum> lo
00:33:45 <_bjoern> that's almost funny.
00:35:11 <_bjoern> phenny, tell sbp http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-missile-parts-pentagon-taiwan-story,0,3604999.story
00:35:12 <phenny> _bjoern: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
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00:35:21 * nslater fails
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00:39:41 <_bjoern> nice "alreadydo" tag on /.
00:39:56 <cre8radix|afk> nice
00:40:13 <_bjoern> You are afk, you should not say anything at all!
00:40:23 <cre8radix|afk> oops
00:40:27 <cre8radix|afk> beat me
00:40:28 <cre8radix|afk> http://www.neostream.com/
00:40:32 * _bjoern beats cre8radix|afk
00:41:10 <_bjoern> they sure know their way around the <img>
00:41:17 <cre8radix|afk> lol
00:42:26 <therethinker> Wazzat
00:42:29 <cre8radix|afk> yeah
00:42:32 <cre8radix|afk> but
00:42:34 <therethinker> Yay voltage?
00:42:40 <cre8radix|afk> "Do not modify this script code for any purpose."
00:42:44 <cre8radix|afk> suckage
00:43:03 <therethinker> Hehehe
00:43:34 <therethinker> They need to not use GIF's
00:45:28 * Arnia gets lost in a diagram which is supposed to commute but he cannot figure out how
00:48:11 <kpreid> Hey Arnia, want to give a category theory lesson?
00:49:07 <Arnia> Sure
00:49:40 <kpreid> What's an example of a *non*-commutative diagram
00:50:13 <kpreid> How do they arise?
00:51:30 <Arnia> A non-commutative diagram would be a graph which couldn't be turned into a portion of a category
00:51:58 <Arnia> Saying a diagram commutes is equivalent to saying that all paths in the diagram from any pair of points are equal
00:52:08 <Arnia> (i.e. map to the same morphism in the category)
00:53:06 <kpreid> Right, right, but what sorts of things have that property?
00:53:14 <Arnia> False statements
00:53:24 <Arnia> So anything which isn't true
00:53:26 <kpreid> Heh, ok
00:55:12 <kpreid> I appreciate the idea of of what category theory is about, but have trouble integrating the practice
00:58:29 <Arnia> Category theory by itself isn't practical. What it allows one to do is to make general statements in a practice agnostic fashion. It provides a very neat and elegant language for talking about things, and proving things, irrespective of the final application.
00:59:00 <Arnia> You can then use the definition of your application, as a category, to map these abstract statements to concrete statements in your practical domain
00:59:51 <Arnia> So, for example, one can use all the theorems about monads which have been formulated in category theoretic language and then transform these to statements about objects in set theory, or in Haskell's type system, or in topological spaces.
00:59:56 <Arnia> etc.
01:00:55 <Arnia> Rather than have to prove the same things over and over again, you get all the categorical proofs for free, and the cost of entry is simply providing a mapping of your domain to the language of category theory (objects with arrows between objects which satisfy a very small number of axioms)
01:01:02 <twe> [Off] and are you free.
01:01:07 <kpreid> Arnia: I get all that. By "the practice" I mean the actual concepts which make up category theory, how they operate, and how the mapping with 'real' (other-domain) entities works
01:01:20 <Arnia> Since the axioms of category theory are so small, that toll is very low
01:01:47 <Arnia> kpreid: well, the key concept is the idea of a graph
01:02:20 <Arnia> Category theory adds two axioms which a graph should satisfy, and lo, that graph becomes a category.
01:02:50 <kpreid> Ok so far...
01:02:53 <Arnia> If you can describe your practical domain in terms of graphs, you can (usually) turn it into a category.
01:03:27 <Arnia> For example, the category of sets has as its basis a node for each set and an arc for each function between sets
01:03:37 <twe> And distinct from each function.
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01:04:53 <Arnia> The categorial axioms state that each node must have a distinguished loop, called the identity arrow, and any pair of arcs where the target of the first and the source of the second are the same node should be 'composable' which means that there is an arc which skips the middle node of the pair
01:05:31 <kpreid> That is, the graph is its own transitive closure, yes?
01:05:41 <Arnia> The identity arrow is a sort of 'no op' in that when it composes with another arrow it can just be ignored
01:05:45 <Arnia> kpreid: yes
01:06:09 <kpreid> Ok.
01:06:37 <Arnia> As I said, if you can describe your practical domain in terms of a graph with these properties then you can use the machinery of category theory
01:06:44 <Arnia> Very low barrier to entry
01:07:11 <Arnia> Of course, a category with no additional structure than that just described is very boring
01:07:35 <kpreid> Question:
01:07:56 <Arnia> But the interesting thing is that you can take additional structures (phrased purely in terms of objects and arrows in a category) and reverse map them to your practical domain
01:08:02 <kpreid> ...never mind.
01:08:09 <kpreid> go on
01:08:21 <Arnia> No, ask :)
01:08:58 <_bjoern> ahaha http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knight_Rider#Popularity_in_other_countries
01:09:21 <_bjoern> Midnight Rider, El Auto Fantastico, ...
01:09:32 <kpreid> I seem to recall, particularly in Haskellish discussions, noting that the categorical interpretation of something seemed to refer to *sets* of things where the domain would have that which are members of the sets
01:09:47 <kpreid> But I think that's just because you're generalizing over all entities
01:09:53 <kpreid> all instances
01:09:58 <_bjoern> phenny, tell n4m3z l0l sbp http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knight_Rider#Popularity_in_other_countries
01:09:58 <phenny> _bjoern: I'll pass that on when n4m3z is around.
01:10:07 <_bjoern> phenny, tell sbp n4m3z l0l http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knight_Rider#Popularity_in_other_countries
01:10:08 <phenny> _bjoern: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
01:10:16 *** _bjoern is now known as n4m3z
01:10:18 <n4m3z> stfu
01:10:19 <phenny> n4m3z: 01:14Z <_bjoern> tell n4m3z l0l sbp http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knight_Rider#Popularity_in_other_countries
01:10:23 *** n4m3z is now known as _bjoern
01:11:13 <_bjoern> "In Germany and Austria the show was popular enough that it spawned a licensed German audioplay series available on cassettes which re-told the original TV series, only with more accurate translation than can be done for lip-synch dubbing, featuring the series's original dubbing voices but employing their own sound effects and scene music alongside the show's original theme."
01:11:16 <_bjoern> I have many of those.
01:11:24 <Arnia> kpreid: ah... category theory avoids talking about sets as far as possible except as part of a category
01:11:37 <_bjoern> Bought them on ... what's it called
01:11:39 <Arnia> kpreid: the reason being, we don't want to tie ourselves to a particular size of universe
01:11:40 <kpreid> Arnia: Not saying it does
01:11:43 <_bjoern> phenny, de "Flohmarkt"?
01:11:43 <phenny> _bjoern: "Flea market" (de)
01:11:53 <_bjoern> good one phenny
01:11:59 <_bjoern> .wik Flea market
01:12:00 <phenny> "A flea market or swap meet is a place where vendors come to sell or trade their goods." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flea_market
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01:13:31 <Arnia> kpreid: one of the nicest developments of category theory is the notion of a topos; that is something which behaves a lot like a set theory does, but defined without presuming a single notion of membership
01:14:24 <Arnia> kpreid: not all topoi have the axiom of choice for example
01:14:37 <kpreid> Arnia: Ok, I'm lost. This doesn't tie into the parts I have so far
01:14:49 <_bjoern> .gs we will * them
01:14:50 <phenny> we will * them: remember (4), treat (3), remove (3), reimburse (3), leaue (3), give (3), fight (3), withdraw (2), welcome (2), teach (2), revisit (2), refer (2)
01:14:53 <Arnia> kpreid: ok, what bits do you have?
01:16:26 <kpreid> A category is a graph with transitive closure.
01:17:09 <Arnia> Right. Ok, transitive closure plus an loop on each node which can be factored away
01:17:10 <kpreid> I don't have any bits to show where topoi *or* sets tie in *inherently* (as opposed to being the objects you're talking about, which is what I was asking about)
01:17:32 <kpreid> ah, right, that is itself not part of t.c. ok.
01:18:29 <Arnia> Do you know about preorders or monoids?
01:19:34 <kpreid> No
01:21:05 <Arnia> Ok, a preorder is a set with a partial ordering relation between its members (a partial order relation is a reflexive and transitive relation)
01:21:14 <twe> Its like a members pass that on their own.
01:22:30 <Arnia> A monoid is a set together with an operation * which is associative and has an identity element in that set
01:23:10 <kpreid> OK, I know a partial order.
01:23:24 <kpreid> A preorder is a a set and a partial order on it
01:23:27 <Arnia> In effect a monoid is like a set of lists
01:23:49 <Arnia> A category can also be thought of as like the generalisation of both the notion of a preorder and of a monoid. This is an important intuition so I'll try and explain it a bit more
01:23:51 <kpreid> I know a monoid as in Haskell
01:24:49 <kpreid> Arnia: Got to pack the laptop now. Back in 20-30 min
01:24:55 <Arnia> ok. I need to sleep tbh
01:25:00 <Arnia> Need to be up quite early
01:26:10 <kpreid> bye then
01:26:34 <Arnia> We can continue tomorrow
01:26:43 <kpreid> phenny: tell Arnia (when he returns) to remind me to ask him about preorder * monoid = category
01:26:43 <phenny> kpreid: I'll pass that on when Arnia is around.
01:27:27 <_bjoern> .gc misanticipate
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01:27:33 <phenny> misanticipate: 38
01:27:46 <_bjoern> .gc disanticipate
01:27:46 <phenny> disanticipate: 8
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01:41:37 <Monty> But what does nwalsh have to do with the price of fish?
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01:45:01 <Monty> howdy, plum
01:45:02 <plum> yip yip yip yip yipyipyipyip yip yip yipyipyip yip yip.
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01:46:10 <nslater> lol
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01:46:50 <nslater> plum, feeling a little better now?
01:46:50 <plum> probably will get better as i watch more.
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02:16:57 <Monty> bah, it's plum again
02:16:58 <plum> cancelled it because i never used it. it was announced while we were discussing it! its excellent if you want to look into it as they dont mention it being available etc.
02:18:27 <nslater> plum, look at you jabbering on without context
02:18:28 <plum> look for %prun. lol
02:21:57 <kpreid> %prun sounds like something you'd find in the guts of a Lisp implementation
02:22:35 <nslater> haha, yeah, probably
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02:23:37 <xover> plum: You mean %preun, or possibly %postun.
02:23:37 <plum> actually probably not.
02:23:45 <selggig> :D
02:23:49 <selggig> she talks back
02:24:08 <xover> Feisty wench.
02:24:21 <nslater> hehe, she got an upgrade, eh plum? :p
02:24:21 <plum> hmm there was a bit of tension between you eh? is the iphone enterprise a separate or just a software upgrade? i wonder if theres a list of leopard upgrade issues anywhere.
02:24:28 <twe> Anywhere i can just about everything.
02:25:51 <nslater> .g testing to make sure plum wont respond to phenny commands
02:25:51 <plum> that would be just to test this.
02:25:52 <phenny> nslater: http://swhack.com/logs/2008-03-06
02:25:56 <nslater> great
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02:28:43 <Monty> welcome, plum
02:28:44 <plum> great thx, for great justice? lol
02:29:17 <xover> .gc "Doctor Quimby"
02:29:17 <phenny> "Doctor Quimby": 598
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09:19:33 <sbp> ehheh:
09:19:33 <phenny> sbp: 25 Mar 23:19Z <_bjoern> tell sbp http://www.netzwelt.de/news/74993-der-gadgetglobus-digitales-voodoo-fuer.html
09:19:35 <sbp> 09:22 <Monty> +howdy, plum
09:19:35 <phenny> sbp: 00:40Z <_bjoern> tell sbp http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-missile-parts-pentagon-taiwan-story,0,3604999.story
09:19:37 <phenny> sbp: 01:15Z <_bjoern> tell sbp n4m3z l0l http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knight_Rider#Popularity_in_other_countries
09:19:37 <sbp> 09:22 <plum> +yip yip yip yip yipyipyipyip yip yip yipyipyip yip yip.
09:19:39 <Monty> but, piebot won't know about things, irrespective of choice for evil purposes)
09:22:02 *** sbp changed the topic to: "EL AUTO FANTÁSTICO"
09:22:32 * _bjoern goes störche chexing
09:22:34 <sbp> “WASHINGTON - The Pentagon has announced that it mistakenly shipped non-nuclear ballistic missile components to Taiwan from a U.S. Air Force base in Wyoming.” - ahaha, what?
09:22:42 <sbp> yep, done that. they look cools
09:23:06 * sbp deciphers Digitales Voodoo für Anfänger with his decipherment contraption
09:24:10 <sbp> from what I can decipher: hehe
09:24:20 <_bjoern> phenny, "Das neue Paar auf dem Dach der Storchenscheune schleppt immer mehr Material hoch. Besonders fleißig scheint dabei das Männchen zu sein, während das unberingte Weibchen seine Stärken offenbar in der Bauleitung hat ;-)Naja, so einseitig ist es dann doch nicht, auf diesem Bild wird jedenfalls Hand in Hand -- ähhhhm - Schnabel in Schnabel gearbeitet:"?
09:24:20 <phenny> AttributeError: '_socketobject' object has no attribute 'admin' (file "/var/www/inamidst.com/htdocs/phenny/bot.py", line 160, in __getattr__)
09:24:28 <sbp> I can't quite tell if it has some lowly t... ew
09:24:43 <sbp> 'chmust fixor!
09:24:45 <_bjoern> cf. http://bp0.blogger.com/_weokMisd98c/R-oV5R4vy5I/AAAAAAAABKQ/P0iNT3ZlsuU/s1600-h/013.jpg
09:25:02 <sbp> I'm surprised they still haven't lain yet
09:25:11 <sbp> well I'm surprised that the female hasn't lain, at the very least
09:25:25 <_bjoern> The nest isn't ready
09:26:20 <sbp> ôrly?
09:26:26 <sbp> they don't seem to be working on it much
09:26:42 <_bjoern> fixor teh bugz for a second opinion
09:26:59 <sbp> phenny: reload *
09:27:00 <phenny> sbp: done
09:27:02 <sbp> phenny, "Das neue Paar auf dem Dach der Storchenscheune schleppt immer mehr Material hoch. Besonders fleißig scheint dabei das Männchen zu sein, während das unberingte Weibchen seine Stärken offenbar in der Bauleitung hat ;-)Naja, so einseitig ist es dann doch nicht, auf diesem Bild wird jedenfalls Hand in Hand -- ähhhhm - Schnabel in Schnabel gearbeitet:"?
09:27:03 <phenny> AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'admin' (file "/var/www/inamidst.com/htdocs/phenny/modules/translate.py", line 73, in tr)
09:27:09 <sbp> ...wank
09:27:59 <sbp> I program so shittily sometimes
09:28:14 <sbp> phenny: reload *
09:28:15 <phenny> sbp: done
09:28:17 <sbp> phenny, "Das neue Paar auf dem Dach der Storchenscheune schleppt immer mehr Material hoch. Besonders fleißig scheint dabei das Männchen zu sein, während das unberingte Weibchen seine Stärken offenbar in der Bauleitung hat ;-)Naja, so einseitig ist es dann doch nicht, auf diesem Bild wird jedenfalls Hand in Hand -- ähhhhm - Schnabel in Schnabel gearbeitet:"?
09:28:20 <phenny> sbp: "The new pair on the roof of the stork barn drags ever more materials highly. Thereby the male seems particularly industrious to be, while the unberingte female his strengths obviously in the construction supervision has;-)Naja, so one-sided is it then nevertheless not, in this picture anyhow hand in hand -- aehhhhm - bill in bill worked:" (de)
09:28:47 <sbp> I think the female's only pretending to work in that photo
09:29:12 <_bjoern> Well, construction supervision...
09:29:13 <sbp> I love how it translated “ähhhhm”
09:32:25 <sbp> .gcs "halcyon days" "kingfisher days" "halcyon day" "kingfisher day" "alcyon days" "alcyon day"
09:32:34 <phenny> "halcyon days" (651,000), "halcyon day" (10,100), "kingfisher days" (1,240), "kingfisher day" (988), "alcyon days" (809), "alcyon day" (4)
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09:57:42 <cre8radix> re
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09:59:40 <sbp> yo cre8radix
09:59:57 <cre8radix> heya
10:02:38 <sbp> ooh, this next whit will probably push Whits over 100,000 words
10:08:46 <xover> Compress it.
10:09:00 <sbp> yeah, I'm whittling it down now
10:09:19 <sbp> as I always do. but I'm very close to the 100,000 word mark
10:09:30 <sbp> it'd have to be a haiku to avoid it
10:10:55 <xover> .title http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/03/craigslist_scam.html
10:10:56 <phenny> xover: Schneier on Security: Craigslist Scam
10:13:43 <_bjoern> lo xover
10:14:01 <xover> The Björn!
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10:29:15 <sbp> .u hor ellip
10:29:18 <phenny> U+2026 HORIZONTAL ELLIPSIS (…)
10:29:34 <xover> Opt-.
10:29:42 <sbp> ≥?
10:29:59 <xover> Pity.
10:30:01 <xover> …
10:30:05 <sbp> it used to be Alt+; for me
10:30:12 <sbp> but I mapped that to combining diaeresis instead
10:30:26 <sbp> .̈̈̈̈̈̈̈̈̈̈̈̈̈̈̈̈
10:30:31 <xover> Aaargh!
10:30:31 <sbp> so that I can do that
10:30:35 <sbp> hehe
10:30:52 <xover> E_TOOEARLYFORCOMBINERS
10:31:01 <sbp> E_MORECOFFEENEEDED?
10:31:23 <xover> T_YES
10:34:08 <sbp> ahaha. 99,981 words
10:34:20 <sbp> awesome
10:34:28 * sbp uploads his haiku of a whit
10:34:43 <sbp> .title http://inamidst.com/whits/2008/criticism
10:34:45 <phenny> sbp: Literary Criticism
10:36:47 *** therethinker (n=therethi@c-24-34-102-128.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #swhack
10:38:54 * sbp finds a more accurate quote for Addison...
10:39:08 <sbp> it's from The Spectator, No. 291. Saturday, February 2, 1712
10:43:20 *** williamthekid has quit ("drive slow, homie...")
10:44:06 <sbp> .c 99,981 in octal
10:44:07 <phenny> 99 981 = 0o303215
10:46:54 <sbp> extraordinarily apropos referrer:
10:46:55 <sbp> [IS BREAKING OF HYMEN ESSENTIAL IN ONDER TO CONCEIVE]
10:55:22 <xover> “Sir.”?
10:56:31 <sbp> whoops
10:57:08 <sbp> thanks, fixed
10:59:06 *** libby (n=libby@colbert-ext.lid.theveniceproject.com) has joined #swhack
11:10:22 <sbp> .title http://www.emilydickinson.org/fascicle/bray.html
11:10:22 <phenny> sbp: Unfastening the Fascicles: Robert Bray, "Why Thoughts Are Better Than Music"
11:10:53 <sbp> check this out: http://www.emilydickinson.org/fascicle/brayfig1.jpg
11:12:36 <xover> Yes. Let's do reduce poetry to numbers and graphs.
11:14:18 <Monty> _bjoern: You asked me to remind you to say SBP SRY 4 DE LNK
11:15:32 * sbp finds out via Late Bloomer: The Gentian as Sign or Symbol in the Work of Dickinson and Her Contemporaries, Elizabeth A. Petrino, The Emily Dickinson Journal 14.1 (2004) 104-125, that there's an alternative reading for J500 that doesn't seem to be very commonly noted on the web... or in books
11:15:47 *** nwalsh (n=ndw@66-189-4-239.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com) has joined #swhack
11:16:13 <sbp> in fact, it's only in one book on Google Books
11:16:38 <sbp> but I think the edition I just got from web.archive.org, oddly enough, may be that book...
11:17:52 <sbp> nope. bugger
11:18:49 <sbp> book is Poems: Including Variant Readings Critically Compared with All Known Manuscripts, Thomas Herbert Johnson, 1955
11:19:25 <xover> .title http://richarddawkins.net/article,2394,Lying-for-Jesus,Richard-Dawkins
11:19:26 <phenny> xover: 'Lying for Jesus?' by Richard Dawkins - RichardDawkins.net
11:19:41 <sbp> Monty: remind me in 1 hour to say _BJOERN IZ K MY TRANSLATORING CONTRAPTION WORXED THX
11:19:42 <Monty> sbp: Okay, I'll remind you about that on Wed Mar 26 12:24:56 GMT 2008
11:20:56 <_bjoern> k
11:26:58 <sbp> hmm
11:27:00 <sbp> .title http://oasis.lib.harvard.edu/oasis/deliver/~hou01457
11:27:02 <phenny> sbp: Dickinson, Emily, 1830-1886. Poems: Guide.
11:27:13 <sbp> that's the only webpage I can find describing the structure of the fascicles
11:28:08 <sbp> very nice though
11:30:20 <xover> .title http://daringfireball.net/2008/03/mail_quoting_bug
11:30:21 <phenny> xover: Daring Fireball: Quoting Attribution Bug in Apple Mail After Upgrading to Safari 3.1
11:30:44 <xover> The fuck. They really planning on using WebKit for absolutely everything?
11:31:22 <sbp> [[[
11:31:23 <sbp> Whether the orders in which Emily Dickinson arranged the fascicles is intentional or a happenstance of her record-keeping is at the heart of debates about their meanings, and each of our presenters brings insightful commentary to the meanings of this much-studied nineteenth-century poet's bookmaking.
11:31:30 <sbp> ]]] - http://www.emilydickinson.org/fascicle/fascicle_index.html
11:33:26 <xover> .title http://www.boingboing.net/2008/03/25/rick-rickroll-astley.html
11:33:27 <phenny> xover: Rick "Rickroll" Astley interviewed - Boing Boing
11:36:43 <sbp> the Link is funny
11:36:46 <xover> phenny: tell _bjoern http://rickrobo.ytmnd.com/
11:36:47 <phenny> xover: I'll pass that on when _bjoern is around.
11:37:21 <_bjoern> AEEEEEEEEEEKKKKKAZGZ
11:37:21 <phenny> _bjoern: 11:42Z <xover> tell _bjoern http://rickrobo.ytmnd.com/
11:37:34 <_bjoern> no sound links without warning plz
11:38:11 <_bjoern> !!!
11:38:20 <sbp> I'm sure he really meant to say: Ä̈̈̈̈̈̈̈̈̈KKKKKAZGZ
11:39:07 <_bjoern> I'm not used to screaming in english.
11:39:19 <nslater> sbp: how come you're reading around Dickinson anyhoo?
11:42:46 * sbp puzzles at http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Fame_is_the_tine_that_Scholars_leave
11:42:57 <sbp> .gcs "Fame is the tine that Scholars leave" "Fame is the tint that Scholars leave"
11:42:59 <phenny> "Fame is the tine that Scholars leave" (424), "Fame is the tint that Scholars leave" (50)
11:43:05 <sbp> nslater: I've always liked Dickinson
11:43:32 <nslater> sbp: ah, I just figured your recent activity must have been inspired by something :)
11:43:39 <sbp> why I'm reading her recently... the day before yesterday, I think, in my power-taft, I found... heh, yeah
11:43:52 <sbp> I found a few poems that somebody liked of hers collected on a website
11:43:54 <nslater> lol powertaft, I like it
11:44:17 <sbp> and that set me off. but I had been casting an eye towards her a few times before
11:44:29 <nslater> sure, makes sense
11:44:38 <sbp> I have lots of set periods that I'm interested in—about fifteen or twenty
11:44:43 <sbp> and I flit between them depending on my mood
11:44:48 <twe> I think i'm that up the whole set?
11:44:53 <xover> Hmm. Powertaft. Is that like Giga Bowser?
11:44:53 <twe> I would give them a good mood?
11:45:16 <sbp> Dickinson is probably enticing me because of the immense power of her poetry, in this period of me thinking deeply about poetic craft
11:45:18 <nslater> ... what's setting _her_ off?
11:45:43 <sbp> who? eh?
11:45:50 <nslater> twe
11:45:53 <sbp> her?
11:45:59 <nslater> him?
11:46:05 <twe> It was mostly to blame, because he knew what you have any self-serving illusions about one hundred four twe years old.
11:46:06 <nslater> oh this bot gender thing is quite confusin :p
11:46:08 <sbp> anything with "twe" in it
11:46:25 <twe> I can ssh to it now and closing the loophole left by anything,' from o.prov. Carriera, from v.l. *Romanice scribere 'to write in a twe...
11:46:37 <nslater> aha yes, it was a delayed response to your two lines, thought she was replying to xover
11:46:41 <sbp> aye
11:46:48 <sbp> we always call him a he for some reason
11:46:55 <sbp> even though the name isn't explicitly gendered
11:47:13 <sbp> alright. so tine or tint?
11:47:18 <xover> Tine.
11:47:55 <nslater> heh, which reminds me, my purple fruit bot had an upgrade, the markov chain stuff is now so fast and so effortless I am thinking about adding some sleep()s to make it less instant :p
11:48:03 <sbp> evidence?
11:48:07 <nslater> go for it
11:48:11 <xover> Yes.
11:49:39 <sbp> show me the damn evidence
11:49:59 * nslater wonders who sbp is talking to
11:50:06 <sbp> xover
11:50:09 <xover> No.
11:50:12 <nslater> thought so ;)
11:50:18 <sbp> that's because you haven't got any. faker
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11:50:28 <sbp> this is serious! the internets are wrong!
11:50:36 <xover> heh heh
11:50:37 <nslater> meh, I don't need to proof my awesomeness to you mr palmer
11:50:41 <nsh> whoa, cancel all holiday
11:50:45 <sbp> hehheh
11:50:53 <nsh> batton down the fallacy-hatches
11:51:00 <nslater> heh
11:51:04 <xover> “You don't understand! There's something WRONG! On the INTERNET!”
11:51:20 * nslater turns on the internet hate machine
11:51:28 <sbp> Thomas Herbert Johnson says "tint"
11:51:29 <xover> Is that a real band name yet?
11:51:43 <xover> .gc "Internet Hate Machine"
11:51:44 <phenny> "Internet Hate Machine": 53,200
11:52:13 <xover> Somebody, anybody, /please/ publish music under that name!
11:52:24 <xover> It doesn't even have to be good music!
11:52:27 <sbp> how could so many sites have it wrong?
11:52:29 <nslater> .g internet hate machine band
11:52:30 <phenny> nslater: http://www.myspace.com/justyn1337
11:52:41 <nsh> .gc "ignorance echo chamber"
11:52:41 <phenny> "ignorance echo chamber": 3
11:52:44 <xover> sbp: Evidence that they are wrong?
11:52:50 <nsh> wow, i thought i'd just made that up
11:53:00 <nsh> but apparantly someone else realised how the internet works too
11:53:05 <nslater> only three
11:53:09 <xover> (that _was_ a yes/no question)
11:53:19 <nslater> or one person with an axe to grind
11:54:45 <xover> Oh dear god, you made me open emogoth's myspace page!
11:54:54 <nslater> heh
11:56:27 <sbp> phenny: "La fama tinge d'immortalità i nomi dei dotti arrivati al tramonto delle loro vite sapienti. Ed è un colore che resta, non come quei colori dell'iride che appaiono al tramonto e svaniscono subito dopo."?
11:56:34 <phenny> sbp: "The reputation dyes of immortality the names of the scholars arrives you to the sunset of their screw sages. And it is a color that remains, not like those colors of the iride that they appear to the sunset and they vanish endured after." (it)
11:56:37 <sbp> xover: evidence either way. I suspect that they're wrong
11:56:45 <sbp> Johnson says "tint", as I say
11:57:02 <nslater> .ety tine
11:57:03 <phenny> "O.E. tind, a general Gmc. word (cf. O.H.G. zint 'sharp point, spike,' O.N. tindr 'tine, point, top, summit,' Ger. Zinne 'pinnacle'), of unknown origin." - http://etymonline.com/?term=tine
11:57:10 <nslater> .ety tint
11:57:11 <phenny> "'color,' 1717, alteration of tinct (1602), from L. tinctus 'a dyeing,' from tingere 'to dye' (see tincture); infl. by It. tinta 'tint, hue,' from L. tinctus." - http://etymonline.com/?term=tint
11:57:19 <sbp> tint makes much more sense to me
11:57:21 * nslater looks confuzzled
11:57:28 <sbp> http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Fame_is_the_tine_that_Scholars_leave
11:57:32 <sbp> that's the version with tine in it
11:57:42 <sbp> it's much more common on the web
11:57:46 <xover> I'd entertain the opposite argument were it presented.
11:58:08 <nslater> hmm, I can't imagine what kind of thing a sharp point would be analogous to
11:58:48 <sbp> well there's only one book on Google Books with "tine"
11:58:52 <sbp> all the rest say "tint"
11:59:06 <sbp> including Johnson, the main authoritative version as far as I'm aware
11:59:07 <nslater> hmm, unless it means fame or summit, then it could be read as fame is the pinnacle the scholars leave upon their names
11:59:10 <nslater> or something...
11:59:10 <xover> Well then it's settled then...
11:59:23 <sbp> but why do so many websites say "tine"?
11:59:29 <sbp> did they all just copy from one another?
11:59:39 <nslater> well, that is how I would imagine it happening
11:59:49 <nslater> there will be some old and authoritative source that has tine
11:59:53 <sbp> it's a ratio of 424:50, tine:tint
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12:01:03 <nslater> it kinda makes more sense that it would be tine when combined in a sentence with fame and the concept of leaving behind some effect on their name
12:01:17 <nslater> ... but what would I know
12:01:23 <sbp> why does that make sense?
12:01:30 <sbp> in a star-ypointing pyramid kind of way?
12:01:46 <nslater> no, in a summit/pinnacle sort of way
12:01:56 <nslater> fame == pinnacle
12:02:12 <nslater> or rather, there is a connection their
12:02:14 <sbp> how can you leave a pinnacle upon a name?
12:02:32 <sbp> I was thinking, if it's tine, that a set of brambles would make more sense
12:02:37 <nslater> well, how can you die it a colour either?
12:03:11 <sbp> you can't, but it makes more metaphorical sense to me
12:03:16 <nslater> sure
12:03:29 <sbp> I mean, tint is more commonly used as a metaphor
12:03:30 <nslater> .. I probably agree
12:03:37 <nslater> what, now or then?
12:03:48 <sbp> well, fairly moot anyway: it's not that you can really use commonality as an argument where Dickinson is concerned... :-)
12:04:15 <sbp> here's a test
12:04:25 <sbp> what does this mean, do you think? “Lest you meet my Snake and suppose I deceive it was robbed of me -- defeated too of the third line by the punctuation. The third and fourth were one -- I had told you I did not print -- I feared you might think me ostensible.”
12:04:35 <sbp> it's from a Dickinson letter
12:04:52 <nslater> sounds like something an irc bot might say :p
12:05:17 <sbp> Mary-Clare Goller introduces it thus: “
12:05:17 <sbp> Emily Dickinson: A Private Publisher
12:05:17 <sbp> By MaryClare Goller
12:05:19 <sbp> Background
12:05:21 <sbp> In contemporary terms, Emily Dickinson was an unpublished poet during her life and for many years afterward. She did not have works in "print" while a living poet. She was not a secret poet -- one who writes without others knowing. Rather, she was a poet in seclusion. Upon her death her sister found forty bound-hand sewn-volumes or fascicles of poetry. On the average each volume contained twenty poems. This collection of work was in addition to the hundreds of poe
12:05:27 *** sbp has parted #swhack ("Leaving")
12:05:28 <twe> And, it's not poetry.
12:05:52 <nslater> you were snipped at "hundreds of poe"
12:05:57 <nslater> ... which made me laugh
12:07:28 *** sbp (i=sbp@66.9.179.67) has joined #swhack
12:07:36 <nslater> you were snipped at "hundreds of poe"
12:08:22 <sbp> choxelles. I accidentally mispasted the whole enormous page
12:08:29 <nslater> hehe, nub ;)
12:08:30 <sbp> had to quit the client to stop it from flooding yer asses off
12:08:32 <sbp> alright, she introduces it thus: [[[
12:08:34 <sbp> In a letter to Thomas Higginson, dated 1866, Dickinson expresses her irritation at misrepresentation in printed form:
12:08:37 <sbp> ]]]
12:08:45 <sbp> totally Firefox's fault! :-)
12:08:49 <sbp> I really didn't see it select the whole page
12:09:02 <nslater> you could just past the uri :/
12:09:09 <sbp> also, if 2px is the difference between one paragraph and the whole rest of the page... I submit that that is not particularly good design
12:09:15 <twe> And in response to that paragraph.
12:09:24 <sbp> well the rest of the page is irrelevant
12:09:26 <nslater> well it's open sauce, you should fix it ;)
12:10:08 * sbp fingers cleowsticca...
12:10:14 <nslater> wat
12:10:33 <sbp> it's my trusty metaphorical Anglo-Saxon sword
12:10:34 <nslater> two results in google for that word, both you and both in here
12:10:38 <sbp> heh, heh
12:10:51 <sbp> I have one metaphorical sword, and one metaphorical horse
12:10:51 <nslater> meh, I was joking, I actually hate that response :p
12:10:59 <nslater> whats the horse called?
12:11:04 <sbp> Big Brown Riding Hoof
12:11:12 <nslater> also, I'm not sure I understood the significance of your citation
12:11:13 <sbp> (affectionately, “Hoofie”)
12:11:16 <nslater> hehe
12:11:29 <nslater> what's the ety of cleowsticca
12:11:39 <sbp> just that it's bloody hard to understand bits of Dickinson without a) a lot of Dickinson learning, and b) context
12:11:47 <nslater> okay sure
12:11:51 <sbp> cleow = OE. for clue
12:11:55 <sbp> sticca = OE. for stick
12:12:00 <nslater> ahahah
12:12:03 <sbp> :-)
12:12:17 <nslater> OE = olde englishe?
12:12:22 <sbp> aye
12:12:41 <xover> «An act of harrowing.»
12:12:52 <nslater> yay, not as dumb as I thought I was then
12:13:12 <xover> «“A double tynd, or teind, is harrowing the same piece of ground twice at the same yoking.”»
12:13:32 <sbp> if you went back to P.Gmc it would be kliwjostikkon
12:13:41 <sbp> see http://swhack.com/logs/2007-07-25#T11-42-55 for details
12:13:43 <nslater> I noticed...
12:13:47 <nslater> ... already there
12:13:47 <xover> «A vessel for brewing; a tub, vat.»
12:13:48 <sbp> :-)
12:13:56 <sbp> xover: yeah, noticed all these too
12:14:01 <sbp> actually, that's an idea
12:14:05 <xover> Right.
12:14:07 <sbp> .g Dickinson Lexicon
12:14:08 <phenny> sbp: http://edl.byu.edu/
12:14:18 <sbp> let's see what the Dickinson Lexicon has to say
12:14:29 <nslater> 0 results found for tine.
12:14:55 <sbp> yup
12:14:58 <sbp> http://edl.byu.edu/lexicon/t/26 - tint is there
12:15:03 <nslater> yup
12:15:29 <sbp> I'm fixing Wikisource with this evidence
12:17:11 <sbp> hmm. how do I move a page...
12:17:29 <xover> Log in and use the bug “Move” button at the top of the page?
12:17:34 <nslater> hmm, usually requires the right privs, there will be a "Move" tab
12:19:38 <sbp> there, fixed manually
12:19:45 <sbp> I just created a new page and marked the old one for deletion
12:19:47 <Monty> sbp: You asked me to remind you to say _BJOERN IZ K your TRANSLATORING CONTRAPTION WORXED THX
12:19:49 <sbp> and fixed the sequence links
12:20:12 <_bjoern> thx Monty but I know
12:20:12 <sbp> Monty: I'm pretty sure I didn't lowercase "your"
12:20:13 <Monty> why
12:20:19 <Monty> Bought them a widespread, medium-sized, omnivorous mammal native to bed anyway .. maybe has announced that would follow. The T-rex's escape
12:20:25 <nslater> heh
12:20:33 <sbp> .title http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Fame_is_the_tint_that_Scholars_leave
12:20:34 <_bjoern> loggy, pointer
12:20:34 <loggy> http://swhack.com/logs/2008-03-26#T12-20-34
12:20:34 <xover> That doesn't leave a redirect in place, creating 404s, and doesn't deal with the Wikisource-internal links to that page.
12:20:34 <phenny> sbp: Fame is the tint that Scholars leave - Wikisource
12:20:48 <sbp> xover: which is why an admin will have to deal with it
12:21:04 * nslater laughs
12:21:04 <_bjoern> you were all "_BJOERN IZ K MY TRANSLATORING CONTRAPTION WORXED THX"
12:21:27 <sbp> oo, right
12:21:38 <sbp> (oo was a typo that I am instantly fond of)
12:22:49 <lisppaste2> sbp pasted "Wikisource changes" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/58025
12:26:25 <sbp> http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/gallery/2007/feb/27/yourphotos?picture=333174186 - moon
12:27:19 <nslater> awe, jeez...
12:27:34 *** leobard (n=Miranda@88-134-43-245-dynip.superkabel.de) has joined #swhack
12:27:53 <nslater> ... I was browsings through some swhack logs from 2007, found a link to www.dnbots.com from sbp and have been browsing it with interest, which lead me to http://bytesexual.info/
12:27:58 * nslater facepalms
12:28:49 <sbp> heh
12:29:08 <nslater> I mean, what is that website? It makes no sense, who would bother hosting it? bah
12:29:11 <sbp> who made that?
12:29:16 <sbp> mmm
12:29:17 <nslater> absolutely no idea
12:29:41 <sbp> Rob Gubler, apparently
12:29:46 <sbp> this is interesting: http://www.ohiostatepress.org/Books/Book%20PDFs/Heginbotham%20Reading.pdf
12:29:52 <sbp> or interestine, or interetint
12:30:44 <sbp> only an excerpt, sadly
12:30:48 <sbp> but a big excerpt
12:33:03 <sbp> [[[
12:33:04 <sbp> When Ralph Franklin published the Manuscript Books of Emily Dickinson
12:33:04 <sbp> in 1981, he offered the closest thing to the unmediated mind of the artist
12:33:04 <sbp> Emily Dickinson that all but those fortunate few who use the carefully guarded
12:33:04 <sbp> library holdings will ever encounter.
12:33:05 <sbp> ]]]
12:33:37 <nslater> .wik httpbis
12:33:38 <phenny> Can't find anything in Wikipedia for "httpbis".
12:34:13 <sbp> note the parallelism of poet-critic and historian-critic in what I've been writing about on Whits, by the way
12:34:48 <sbp> think of it as embodied criticism, in the cognitive sciences idiom
12:35:15 <xover> Stupid CSS! DWIM!
12:36:06 <sbp> trying to unravel the frippery of criticism, I suppose
12:36:15 <nslater> .ety frippery
12:36:15 <phenny> "1568, 'old clothes, cast-off garments,' from M.Fr. friperie 'old clothes, an old clothes shop,' from O.Fr. freperie, from frepe 'rag,' from L.L. faluppa 'chip, splinter, straw, fiber.' The notion is of 'things worn down, clothes rubbed to rags.' The ironic meaning [...]" - http://etymonline.com/?term=frippery
12:36:36 <sbp> ‘The ironic meaning "finery" (but with overtones of tawdriness) dates from 1637.’
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12:41:14 <nslater> .c 1150.00 EURO in GBP
12:41:14 <phenny> 1 150.00 Euros = 893.406177 British pounds
12:41:23 <nslater> sbp: do you think that's a formatting bug?
12:49:56 *** jsled (n=jsled@dsl195.burlvtma.sover.net) has joined #swhack
12:49:56 <Monty> But what does jsled have to do with the price of fish?
12:51:15 * xover briefly wonders what the point of “outline” is…
12:51:26 <nslater> dunno, but he has something to do with the price of plums
12:51:27 <plum> dunno is django incompatible with twisted?
12:51:33 <nslater> probably not
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12:58:10 <laplink> .title http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article2328620.ece
12:58:17 <phenny> laplink: Explosion danger prompts more evacuations - Aftenposten.no
12:58:41 <laplink> NO! WRONG!
12:59:14 <laplink> «Five feared dead in building collapse»
12:59:57 <nslater> .ety byzantine
12:59:57 <phenny> "1599, from L. Byzantinus, originally used of art style; later in reference to the complex, devious, and intriguing character of the royal court of Constantinople." - http://etymonline.com/?term=byzantine
13:00:05 <nslater> nice
13:00:11 <laplink> .title http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article2328238.ece
13:00:13 <phenny> laplink: Developer: 'Beyond our control' - Aftenposten.no
13:00:26 <laplink> .gc frostsprengning
13:00:27 <phenny> frostsprengning: 1,120
13:00:37 <nslater> .ety frostsprengning
13:00:38 <phenny> Can't find the etymology for "frostsprengning". Try http://etymonline.com/?search=frostsprengning
13:01:41 <laplink> It's the Norwegian word for what happens when water inside, say, rocks freezes and expands; and “explodes” the rock.
13:02:21 <laplink> “frost-exploding” or somesuch, would be the literal translation.
13:03:19 <laplink> It's a quite common concept in .no since the climate is such that there is a lot of moisture and the temperature waffles around the freezing point a lot.
13:04:17 <sbp> formatting bug?
13:04:23 <sbp> oh, no, Google really outputs that
13:04:26 <nslater> "1 150.00"
13:04:39 <laplink> Most rockslides and landslides are, iirc, caused by this effect; and it's a significant problem causing much property and infrastructure damage, and lives, every year.
13:04:52 <nslater> weird...
13:06:03 <sbp> nslater: think of it like Björk
13:06:10 <nslater> hmm?
13:06:20 <_bjoern> You don't know Björk??
13:06:23 <laplink> .title http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article2326641.ece
13:06:25 <phenny> laplink: Language under assault - Aftenposten.no
13:06:36 <nslater> oh course I know Björk, uber hawt ;)
13:06:46 <nslater> not sure what it has to do with number formatting issues
13:06:57 <sbp> I was referring to frostsprengning
13:07:15 <nslater> what does Björk have to do with frost explosions?
13:07:29 <laplink> .title http://www.aftenposten.no/english/business/article2326221.ece
13:07:30 <sbp> cute idea, but actually quite violent
13:07:31 <phenny> laplink: Oil fund exposed to troubled US mortgage market - Aftenposten.no
13:07:40 <_bjoern> Björk is quite violent?
13:07:46 <nslater> sbp: oh my, that's terrible
13:07:54 <nslater> _bjoern: she attacks press reports and such
13:08:01 <nslater> *reporters
13:08:02 <laplink> Björk is quite violent to the senses, yes.
13:08:21 <nslater> she's pretty easy on my senses ;)
13:08:33 * sbp imagines Björk leaping on a copy of the Telegraph
13:08:41 <nslater> lol
13:09:38 <sbp> biting down her teeth into its delicious pulp
13:09:48 <nslater> .g york showtimes horton
13:09:48 <phenny> nslater: http://charlotte.ohsohandy.com/movie/show/dr-seuss-horton-hears-a-who
13:09:50 <sbp> ...this could be a good slash if someone wrote it up
13:09:52 <nslater> bah
13:11:18 <xover> .wik Frost heaving
13:11:19 <phenny> "Frost heaving (or frost heave) occurs when soil expands and contracts due to freezing and thawing." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frost_heaving
13:23:42 *** kpreid has quit ()
13:25:38 <sbp> .gd ostraca
13:25:39 <phenny> ostraca: An ostracon (Greek: ὄστρακον ostrakon, plural ὄστρακα ostraka) is a piece of pottery (or stone), usually broken off from a vase ...
13:25:47 <sbp> .wik Ostracon
13:25:47 <phenny> "An ostracon (Greek: όστρακον ostrakon, plural όστρακα ostraka) is a piece of pottery (or stone), usually broken off from a vase or other earthenware vessel." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostracon
13:31:34 *** leobard has quit ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
13:36:49 * nsh ostraconises sbp
13:39:35 * sbp gets an account at the University of Michigan and asks if he can be subscribed to “Radical Scatters”
13:39:46 <sbp> cf. http://www.emilydickinson.org/radical_scatters.html
13:39:52 <nsh> there's a name pregnant with potential coolness
13:40:26 <sbp> it's much along the lines of a sensible resource, except behind an access barrier
13:40:44 <sbp> [[[
13:40:44 <sbp> (1) graphic files containing high-quality images of the fragments and related texts; (2) graphic files containing diplomatic transcriptions displaying the full compositional process of the fragments and related texts from both spatial and temporal perspectives; (3) files containing SGML-marked e-texts of the fragments and related texts; and (4) files containing various paratexts, including indices to the documents in the archive
13:40:45 <sbp> ]]]
13:40:47 *** therethinker has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
13:40:54 <nsh> .gs para-*
13:40:55 <phenny> para-*: aminobenzoic (4), sexiphenyl (2), phernalia (2)
13:41:07 <nsh> you're a para-sexy phenyl
13:41:09 <sbp> that's about the sensible extent of what one can hope for online for this sort of thing at the moment. well, a good UI too perhaps
13:41:12 <sbp> hehe
13:43:57 *** pixel (n=pixel@pond.leapfroginteractive.com) has joined #swhack
13:45:15 <sbp> [[[
13:45:16 <sbp> The most disappointing readings of Dickinson texts stemmed from students' failure to read these texts in context- i.e., to account for the poems' various states, intended audience(s), positions (bound, unbound, mailed) within Dickinson's oeuvre, print histories, etc. These readings treated poems in the archives as they would have treated poems on the printed page-that is, as contextless, or, to use a word familiar to Dickinson scholars, "sceneless."
13:45:21 <sbp> ]]] - http://www.mith.umd.edu/mithologies/werner.html
13:45:58 <_bjoern> S G M L
13:46:33 <xover> .comp sgml lmgs xml lmx
13:46:35 <phenny> xml (517,000,000), sgml (14,600,000), lmx (983,000), lmgs (53,100)
13:46:54 <nslater> .u small ae
13:46:54 <phenny> U+00E6 LATIN SMALL LETTER AE (æ)
13:50:38 *** leobard (n=Miranda@dfki-046.dfki.uni-kl.de) has joined #swhack
13:50:48 <sbp> ah, it's no longer hosted at the University of Michigan
13:51:03 <sbp> it's at the University of Nebraska, Lincoln
13:51:49 <nsh> for some reason
13:52:10 <nsh> in my head that expanded to "university of nebraska, lincoln, nebraska, lincoln, nebraska....."
13:52:23 <nsh> and then i saw teh ceiling cat
13:54:19 * sbp writes kindly to them
13:54:21 <sbp> hehe
13:54:41 <sbp> “I'd very much like to be subscribed to the Radical Scatters [1] resource, if at all possible. If you could either subscribe me immediately or outline the procedure for obtaining such subscription, I'd be most grateful.”
13:55:06 <nsh> s/immediately/post haste/
13:55:17 <sbp> heh. too late
13:55:31 <sbp> plus I take it that you're joking :-)
13:56:09 <sbp> just indicating that they don't have to wait for my approval to use my email address for login details or whatever
13:56:22 * nsh smiles
13:56:34 *** swhask has quit (Remote closed the connection)
13:56:39 *** eel has quit (Remote closed the connection)
13:57:02 <nsh> i'm trying to think of ways to imaginately include (generalisations of) the phantom time hypothesis in my everyday interactions
13:57:31 <sbp> “I think you're making yesterday up” might be a good one
13:58:05 * nwalsh chuckles
13:58:25 <nsh> i was once planning to do some street theatre where i tried to sell a day of someone's life back to them
13:58:31 <nsh> but i decided it would take too much preparation
13:59:07 <sbp> yeah, you'd have to compile dossiers on all the people likely to walk past you that day
13:59:21 <sbp> which is obviously terrorism
13:59:26 <nsh> ayup
13:59:51 <nslater> .wik phantom time
13:59:53 <phenny> "The Phantom time hypothesis is a theory developed by Heribert Illig (born 1947 in Vohenstrauß) in 1991." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_time_hypothesis
14:00:02 * nslater heads on over in interest
14:00:13 <nslater> oh my, isn't that weird
14:00:22 <nslater> ... I got to this page via tafting t'other night
14:00:30 <nslater> very interesting
14:00:31 <sbp> we mentioned it in here before
14:00:54 <nslater> nope, I am pretty sure I ended up here via pure taft
14:00:58 <sbp> nslater: http://swhack.com/logs/2008-03-19#T02-32-14
14:01:02 <sbp> we showed you it and you said "wow"
14:01:14 <nslater> hmm...
14:01:19 <xover> FAIL!
14:01:57 <nsh> recollectiowned
14:01:59 <nslater> well, kind of fail, I didn't actually read the article at that point, I am sure that I ended up there a few days later
14:02:04 <nslater> so, pah
14:02:08 *** sbp changed the topic to: "<nsh> recollectiowned"
14:02:39 <sbp> well _bjoern and I still can't remember the bash.org bots names
14:02:59 <xover> That's because they don't exist!
14:03:09 <sbp> are you saying we invented that day?
14:03:15 <xover> Yes!
14:03:37 <xover> LIES! LIES! ALL LIES!
14:03:43 <nsh> .gs phantom * theory
14:03:44 <phenny> phantom * theory: pain (4), driver (3), wolf (2), vision (2), sun (2), space (2), rock studio (2), plane (2), norms (2), network (2), limb syndrome a (2), limb (2)
14:03:48 <nsh> .gs phantom * hypothesis
14:03:48 <_bjoern> LIES! LIES! ALL LIES!
14:03:49 <phenny> phantom * hypothesis: time (83), limb (3), sensations rps one (2)
14:03:56 * xover realises he needs a cigarette right fucking pronto…
14:04:01 <nslater> lol
14:05:19 * laplink lights one up and sighs contently…
14:05:30 <nslater> bah, stop tempting me pls
14:05:44 * nslater smokes a plum
14:05:44 <plum> pls notice the quotes, did you a poof of smoke? rofl
14:05:56 <nsh> lawl
14:06:04 <laplink> They should teach kids to smoke from like kindergarden.
14:06:09 <_bjoern> What's now, are we turning #Swhack into a smoking quitters self help group?
14:06:10 <sbp> they don't?
14:06:19 <nsh> mekano-pip, is it ok to smoke just to look cool?
14:06:20 <mekano-pip> nsh: I DONT THINK IT AR VERY HEALTHY. KTHX.
14:06:35 <nsh> mekano-pip, what if you're an action hero?
14:06:36 <mekano-pip> nsh: TRY IT AND SEE.
14:06:42 <nsh> mekano-pip, ok thx!
14:06:43 <mekano-pip> nsh: GEE.
14:06:50 * nwalsh would prefer to keep his lungs pink and moist, if its all the same to you
14:06:53 <sbp> Action Hero nsh
14:07:07 <nsh> i can be twe's sidewinder-busting sidekick
14:07:14 <twe> I can be as a sidekick.
14:07:16 <laplink> nwalsh: You don't know what you're missing!
14:07:20 <nslater> twe busts sidewinders?
14:07:25 <_bjoern> Smoking makes one hates ones life a lot less I heard.
14:07:37 <laplink> It tastes like metaphorical heroin, it's so good!
14:07:41 <twe> nslater: Strange. I seem to be very good handle on the five busts on the projector behind you, and active but i strongly suspect that was the first thing to remember where i staying.
14:07:43 <_bjoern> ETOOMANYLETTERS
14:07:50 <nwalsh> laplink, I disagree. I was talked into smoking a cigar once, at about 3:30a after substantial quantities of beer and scotch.
14:07:56 <nsh> eww
14:07:59 <nslater> twe: you have your hands on who's busts?
14:07:59 <nsh> cigars are nasty
14:08:10 <nslater> GOOD cigars are lovely
14:08:18 <laplink> Cigars are sexual aids, not something you smoke for pleasure.
14:08:21 <nslater> but they are also expensive, and rare
14:08:21 <twe> nslater: Maybe that's your idea of removing a leading figure in british politics between 1721 and 1742; the clique led by labor activists, students, and intellectuals in the main settlement of the hands with the one on http://producingoss.com.
14:08:25 <nwalsh> It was the smell reaking out of my pores at the WG meeting the next day that did me in. And the hangover didn't help.
14:08:27 <nsh> ....
14:08:40 * nsh worries that twe might end up on a blacklist
14:08:41 <sbp> oh yeah, smoking is like curry
14:08:44 <nslater> nwalsh: true, nothing is worse than the smell of stale cigar
14:08:57 <nwalsh> Don't inhale smoke. It seems so obvious in retrospect.
14:09:08 <laplink> Conformist!
14:09:20 <nsh> Proteist!
14:09:20 <nwalsh> Mmmm. Curry. Now there's a vice I'll happily indulge in. Damn. Now I'm hungry. Where's breakfast?
14:09:31 <nslater> curry? for breakfast?
14:09:32 * sbp also is hungry... time for foods!
14:09:33 <nsh> breakfast is grazing with dinner
14:09:40 * nslater eats a plum
14:09:41 <plum> damn you now the dinner that youre next going to right?
14:09:44 * laplink hands nwalsh a pile of tobacco leaves…
14:10:06 <nsh> what's that thing that yogabunnies do with tobacco?
14:10:07 * nwalsh builds an oragami platypus from the leaves
14:10:14 <nsh> some kinda native american silliness
14:10:44 * laplink puts nwalsh in a pipe and smokes him…
14:11:33 <laplink> Ah, wonderfull 7 minutes, how fast you go by…
14:12:08 * nwalsh evaporates in a puff of smoke
14:12:08 <xover> Right, where was I?
14:12:09 *** nwalsh has quit ("</norm>")
14:12:18 * nslater rolls an nsh cigarette, throws in some toaststools
14:12:32 <xover> phenny: ask nwalsh Was it something I said? :-)
14:12:33 <phenny> xover: I'll pass that on when nwalsh is around.
14:13:12 <nsh> they'd better be chalky, goddamnit
14:13:26 <nslater> and wind-up, don't worry old bean
14:13:35 <nsh> good on, sir, good on
14:14:51 <sbp> .wik List of additives in cigarettes
14:14:51 <phenny> "This is the list of 599 additives in cigarettes submitted to the Department of Health and Human Services in April of 1994." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_additives_in_cigarettes
14:14:52 * _bjoern waits for someone to go all HEY I QUIT JUST A FEW WEEKS AGO AND YOU PPL ARE KILLING ME
14:15:23 <nsh> the question is
14:15:33 <sbp> yummy: 2-Ethyl-1-Hexanol,3-Ethyl-2-Hydroxy-2-Cyclopenten-1-One
14:15:40 <nsh> why the hell do you have to add 599 chemicles to an already perfect plant?!
14:15:51 <nslater> it's to make it burn
14:15:53 <sbp> hey, don't dis 2-Ethyl-1-Hexanol,3-Ethyl-2-Hydroxy-2-Cyclopenten-1-One mang
14:15:56 <nsh> oh wait, nicotine cigarettes
14:15:57 <nsh> i see
14:16:00 <nslater> notice how fags never go out?
14:16:13 <nslater> it's because of all the gunpowder they put in it, and other stuff
14:16:17 <_bjoern> No. Do you know many?
14:16:39 *** kpreid (n=kpreid@cpe-24-59-154-165.twcny.res.rr.com) has joined #swhack
14:16:42 <sbp> ah, here we go:
14:16:44 <sbp> .wik Smoke constituents
14:16:45 <phenny> "List of additives in cigarettes" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoke_constituents
14:16:53 <_bjoern> .wik Hexanal
14:16:54 <phenny> "Hexanal, or hexanaldehyde, is an alkyl aldehyde used in the flavor industry to produce fruity flavors.[2]|" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexanal
14:17:01 <sbp> right, or: “According to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services[1], the following carcinogens are found in cigarette smoke:”
14:17:32 <_bjoern> .gc 4-(2,6,6-Trimethylcyclohexa-1,3-Dienyl)But-2-En-4-One
14:17:33 <phenny> 4-(2,6,6-Trimethylcyclohexa-1,3-Dienyl)But-2-En-4-One : 951
14:17:58 <sbp> hey, some good old-fashioned benzene
14:18:29 <sbp> hydrazine! cigarettes have rocket fuel in 'em
14:18:38 <nsh> the guy who discovered the chemical structure of benzene
14:18:43 <nslater> heh
14:18:45 <nsh> saw it in a dream
14:18:47 <_bjoern> Chocolate is one of the 599
14:18:48 <sbp> isoprene, an explosive
14:18:52 <nsh> after smoking sweet rings of malboro
14:18:53 <sbp> _bjoern: and honey
14:19:08 * nslater wants to smoke now
14:19:11 <sbp> “2-Naphthylamine is an aromatic amine. It is used to make azo dyes. It is a known human carcinogen and has largely been replaced by less toxic compounds.” - except in cigarettes
14:19:25 <_bjoern> The best flavours were all created in accidents?
14:19:26 <sbp> (as the page itself notes)
14:19:48 <xover> .wik Arsenic
14:19:48 <phenny> "Arsenic (pronounced /ˈɑrs|ə|nɪk/) is a chemical element that has the symbol As and atomic number 33." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenic
14:19:50 <_bjoern> "Walnut Hull Extract"
14:20:01 <sbp> another particularly potent one: “N-Nitrosodimethylamine (NDMA), also known as dimethylnitrosamine (DMN), is a semi-volatile organic chemical that is highly toxic and is a suspected human carcinogen.”
14:20:26 <kwijibo> do you still get those packets of cigarette shaped chocolates with edible papers?
14:21:01 <nsh> oh man, they were cool
14:21:03 <sbp> I like the sugar cigarettes
14:21:09 <nsh> they were also cool
14:21:20 <sbp> bet they don't do them anymore
14:21:24 <sbp> for shame, if so!
14:21:27 <kwijibo> the really skinny white ones?
14:21:30 <sbp> yeah
14:21:40 <kwijibo> nah, a bit chewy and sweet
14:21:47 <sbp> mmm... chewy and sweet
14:21:56 <kwijibo> they taste like those pink shrimp penny chews?
14:22:02 * nsh suddenly wants some Parma Violets
14:22:05 <sbp> ooh, yes. a bit
14:22:17 <kwijibo> parmaviolets++
14:22:20 <nsh> man, what i'd do for some parma violets and prawn-cocktail crisps
14:22:22 <sbp> parma violets are great until you glut on them
14:22:31 <nsh> yeah, you gotta tread the line carefully
14:22:39 <kwijibo> you have to go to special effort to do that
14:22:44 <kwijibo> they come in such small packets
14:22:49 <kwijibo> maybe that's why
14:22:53 <nsh> mmm
14:22:57 <kwijibo> too many people ODed on pv
14:23:15 <nsh> i think it caused a few witchery outbreaks
14:23:25 <nsh> .gs the * stick
14:23:26 <phenny> the * stick: borgia (7), talking (6), intracell (5), cinnamon (5), exploding (4), crooked (4), carrot (4), blackthorn (4), walking (3), pugil (3), odor (3)
14:23:28 <kwijibo> like how you can only buy paracetemol in packs of 12 or whatever it is
14:23:29 <sbp> “The origins of the parma violet are a source of some mystique. First imported into Naples a certain Count Brazza took the plant to Udine in the latter part of the 19th century.” - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parma_violet
14:23:56 * nsh ponders searching for all wikipedia articles with the word "mystique" in them
14:24:03 <nsh> and then doing some burroughs style cut-up
14:24:21 <sbp> I would just like to put in a word for chupa chups
14:24:25 <sbp> and blackjacks. and refreshers
14:24:27 <sbp> and dib-dabs
14:24:43 *** pixel has quit ()
14:24:56 <sbp> and choc dips
14:25:03 <nsh> truly this.
14:25:04 <sbp> and aniseed twists
14:25:18 <nsh> everton mints had their moments too
14:25:26 <sbp> ooh, yes
14:25:31 <sbp> and Fox's glaciers
14:25:32 <nsh> ever try the iron brew bars?
14:25:38 <sbp> nope?
14:25:47 <nsh> ah man, they were pwn in stick-shaped form
14:25:53 <sbp> aw
14:26:12 <nsh> shrimps also, on the penny front
14:26:25 <sbp> yeah, kwijibo mentioned them
14:26:32 <sbp> bananas of the same kind also good
14:26:42 <kwijibo> irnbru bars++
14:26:44 <nsh> blackjacks/fruitsalads were always a bit hit-and-miss, simply on the sticky-old-paper side
14:26:48 <kwijibo> desperate dan bars
14:27:06 <sbp> ooh, fruit salads. yeah, definitely better in the winter months...
14:27:08 * nsh went through a stage of being addicted to tooty-fruities
14:27:10 <kwijibo> both types were pretty desperate
14:27:14 <sbp> oh. man
14:27:21 <sbp> tooty-fruities fucking *ruled*
14:27:27 <sbp> especially the red ones
14:27:29 <nsh> indubitably
14:27:29 <nsh> yah
14:27:34 <nsh> there was something in those...
14:27:38 <sbp> mmm
14:27:39 <nsh> something i've never tasted since
14:27:48 <kwijibo> I love aniseed balls
14:27:50 <nsh> i think it was essence of mystique
14:27:59 <nsh> they were cool, also everlasting gobstoppers
14:28:00 <sbp> kwijibo: with the little pip inside?
14:28:02 <kwijibo> aniseed twists however rip out the roof of your mouith
14:28:10 <kwijibo> yeah
14:28:14 <sbp> ooh, remember the colour-changing gobstoppers?
14:28:19 <sbp> is that what you mean by the everlasting ones?
14:28:20 <kwijibo> really corrossive
14:28:22 <nsh> yeah, sbp
14:28:27 <sbp> sweet
14:28:39 <nsh> oo
14:28:43 <nsh> sherbert fountains
14:28:54 <sbp> with the liqourice?
14:28:57 <nsh> yah
14:28:59 <nslater> hmmmm
14:29:03 <nslater> om nom nom
14:29:09 <sbp> they looked like sticks of dynamite that you EAT
14:29:12 <nsh> but the paper tube would tend to soggy-biscuits
14:29:13 <nsh> yeah manb
14:29:15 <kwijibo> you get really nice soft chewing licquorice from Julian Graves
14:29:20 <nslater> they still make em don't they, same packaging?
14:29:31 <sbp> quite possibly. I know some of these still exist
14:29:33 <nsh> somewhere, somewhere
14:29:42 <nslater> I am thinking about the sherbert fountains
14:29:56 <kwijibo> mmm, popping candy
14:29:58 <sbp> ah. can't remember seeing them recently
14:29:58 <nslater> ... would be nice for auld times sake, but nsh is correct about the annoying soggy-biscuits
14:30:23 <sbp> last time I bought sweets it was getting a bit disturbing
14:30:31 <sbp> like they had this "candy" which was an aerosol
14:30:36 <nslater> heh, you're getting old :p
14:30:40 <sbp> you spray it in your mouth and it's like concentrated flavour
14:30:43 <nslater> ugh
14:30:49 <nsh> yeah...
14:30:52 <nsh> what's that about..
14:30:56 <nslater> I actually have a little bit of sick in my mouth.
14:31:02 <sbp> plus it costs like £7.50
14:31:05 <nsh> pop candy was my limit on the experimental front
14:31:06 <nslater> hahaha
14:31:22 <nslater> my favourites were blackjacks and fruitsalads
14:31:31 <nslater> nice and simple
14:32:24 <sbp> ahahaha:
14:32:25 <sbp> [super super gay porn with old men and donkeys and shit.]
14:32:29 <sbp> referrer of the day so far!
14:32:30 <nslater> hahaha
14:32:38 <sbp> no just porn
14:32:41 <sbp> not just gay porn
14:32:48 <sbp> super *super* gay porn. with old men. and donkeys. and shit
14:33:01 <kwijibo> I liked those aniseed jelly things covered in sprinkles you get iwth licquorice allsorts
14:33:12 <kwijibo> all the srest of the allsorts are rubbish
14:33:20 <sbp> yeah, not massively keen
14:33:29 <kwijibo> but if you had a whole back of the jelly thungs you'd be sick probably
14:33:37 <sbp> really I think stuff like allsorts and marzipan is for the '70s generation
14:33:39 * nslater likes sugarplums
14:33:40 <plum> yes, but yeah, yeah heh, well yeah. lmao
14:33:49 * nslater facepalms
14:34:26 * sbp pantodrums along to Please Don't Tease
14:34:41 <xover> Apparently, Salmiakklakris has become extinct in .no since last I checked. :-(
14:34:56 <sbp> I still have a bundle. yaynsh
14:35:20 <sbp> though you're probably talking about a drink or meat or some specificity
14:35:29 <sbp> ah, nope
14:35:43 <sbp> dang man, I have more salmiakki than Norway
14:35:44 <sbp> ftw
14:35:59 <nsh> .gs more * than norway
14:36:00 <phenny> more * than norway: tolerant (3), beautiful (3), slender (2), sensitive (2), secularized (2), secular (2), retailers (2), resistant (2), often (2), liberal (2)
14:36:20 <nsh> more slender than norway?
14:36:22 <xover> That's… interesting.
14:36:31 * nsh tries to think of a country that fits that description
14:36:32 <sbp> xover: did you ever review pinnekjøtt?
14:36:34 <xover> .gs more * than england
14:36:35 <phenny> more * than england: snobbish (3), per capita (3), relaxed (2), murders (2), expensive (2), england (2), brutally (2)
14:36:41 <xover> .gs more * than america
14:36:42 <phenny> more * than america: favorably (4), vulnerable (3), socialist (3), righteous (3), racist (3), liberal (3), democratic (3), with europe (2), secular (2), rapidly (2)
14:36:50 <sbp> oh, you did
14:36:51 * nsh chuckles
14:36:52 <sbp> way before I asked
14:36:53 <sbp> 2008-03-13 12:32:13 <xover> Ribbe and Pinnekjøtt FTW!
14:37:00 <sbp> 2008-03-24 09:22:58 <sbp> phenny: ask xover is pinnekjøtt is any good. sounds delisch
14:37:04 <sbp> should pay more attention
14:37:09 <xover> Yeah, Pinnekjøtt is excellent.
14:38:48 <sbp> odd: http://amazon.ca/dp/0472002805
14:38:49 <sbp> .title
14:38:51 <phenny> sbp: Amazon.ca: Radical Scatters: Emily Dickinson's Fragments And Related Texts, 1870-1886: Marta L. Werner: Books
14:38:58 <sbp> IS NOT BEINK BOOK, K THX
14:43:07 *** lisppaste2 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
14:43:44 <nsh> right
14:43:44 <nsh> right
14:43:50 <nsh> say there's an aeroplane
14:43:56 <nsh> but it's on a conveyor belt
14:44:02 <nsh> and however fast the aeroplane moves
14:44:13 <nsh> the conveyor belt moves backwards at the same speed
14:44:20 <nsh> how many fucking idiots on the internet will fail discussing it?
14:44:27 <kpreid> nsh: ...heh
14:44:41 <nsh> (sry, hd2b sed)
14:45:22 <kpreid> under *that* formulation, it's well-defined and will just mean the plane's wheels are idling at 2x the speed they otherwise would...
14:45:24 <sbp> hehe
14:46:47 <kpreid> now under the phrasing "...as fast as necessary to keep the plane stationary", the answer depends on which thing fails to approximate Ideal Physics Land first
14:47:08 * nsh smiles
14:47:19 <kpreid> BURNIN' RUBBER!
14:47:24 <nsh> i would love to go to ideal physics land
14:47:25 <kpreid> or at least bearing oil
14:47:32 * sbp refinds http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~ajf2j/emily/stab.html - fascicle 16
14:47:34 <nslater> nsh: thats not true
14:47:36 <kpreid> or motor windings
14:47:39 <sbp> apparently there was a website of fascicle 26 once too
14:47:52 <sbp> around www.engl.virginia.edu/~ennc491/alabaster/text
14:48:00 <nslater> nsh: you're assuming no friction between the belt and the surface it sits on
14:48:11 <twe> Assuming there are choice to be synonymous with the bible belt.
14:48:17 <xover> nsh: http://www.intuitor.com/moviephysics/
14:48:21 <xover> .title
14:48:22 <phenny> xover: Intuitor Insultingly Stupid Movie Physics
14:48:29 * nsh gives nslater a look
14:48:49 <nsh> when did i give the impression that i could possibly deign to provide an opinion on this nonquestion?
14:48:52 <sbp> web.archive.org doesn't have a single image so far as I can find
14:49:04 <nsh> xover, cool
14:49:36 <clsn> airplane lift depends on relative speed of the airplane wrt the air over the wings; what the wheels are doing isn't relevant.
14:49:55 <sbp> clsn!
14:50:04 <sbp> any progress with ye Harvard PIN?
14:50:09 <sbp> I'm getting desparates
14:50:15 <kpreid> clsn: yeah but the "as fast as necessary" condition *would* stop the plane if you assume the conveyor is more ideal than the plane's wheel bearings
14:50:36 * xover thinks you all fail here…
14:51:19 <nsh> (((((HEI GUYS! TEH QUESHUN WUZ HIGHPFETICUL))))))
14:51:31 * kpreid ignores nsh.
14:51:37 <clsn> kpreid: I'm not seeing what the question is. If everything was installed from the Ideal Physics Shop, nothing terribly much should happen until the wheels start rotating relativistically or something.
14:51:48 *** nwalsh (n=ndw@66-189-4-239.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com) has joined #swhack
14:52:07 <clsn> Might be easier just to imagine the runway is frictionless instead of a moving conveyor belt.
14:52:10 *** plum has quit (Remote closed the connection)
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14:52:26 <clsn> sbp: well, I don't think I was allowed into that part of the harvard web, was I?
14:52:31 <clsn> What were we trying to get into again?
14:53:05 *** lisppaste2 (n=lisppast@common-lisp.net) has joined #swhack
14:53:17 <clsn> Owait, the plane isn't being driven by its wheels. nevermind.
14:54:58 <sbp> clsn: http://nrs.harvard.edu/urn-3:FHCL.HOUGH:1276245
14:55:00 <clsn> If the wheel-bearings are totally ideal, i.e. frictionless, then what the conveyor belt does isn't important. The jet will just push the plane forward.
14:55:15 *** leobard has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
14:55:19 <sbp> I poked around and it said all students have a PIN and they're not deleted when students leave, or something like that
14:55:19 <clsn> So yeah, I suppose it just matters how non-ideal the wheel bearings are.
14:55:44 <clsn> Oh, so I'm supposed to have a PIN for that?
14:55:54 <kpreid> clsn: and tire rolling resistance and so on.
14:56:09 <nslater> why does it matter about the wheels if the thrust is from the engines?
14:56:26 <nslater> they could be nailed to the ground for all it matters, they would just snap off
14:56:34 <laplink> You need to take Quantum into account!
14:56:45 <sbp> utter bummer that the http://www.engl.virginia.edu/~ennc491/ stuff is gone
14:56:45 <kpreid> the wheels' job is to make the plane approximate being on a one-directionally frictionless surface...
14:56:53 <clsn> kpreid: Right. It depends how much the backward-moving conveyor belt can drag the plane backward.
14:56:53 <sbp> clsn: yeah
14:57:38 <clsn> Frictionlessness won't mean squat if the thrust is from the engine. The conveyor belt moving backward is meant to pull the plane backward, i.e. it exerts a force to counter the engine's.
14:58:06 <clsn> That force is transmitted by rolling friction, rotational inertia in the wheels, etc.
14:58:29 <sbp> ooh: [[[
14:58:30 <sbp> Other Emily Dickinson Fascicle Projects
14:58:30 <sbp> * Fascicle 1, edited by Joel Nickels, Joe Gross, and Kate Winslow
14:58:30 <sbp> * Fascicle 17, edited by David Riffle, Jennifer Weaver, and Stephanie Northrup
14:58:30 <sbp> ]]]
14:59:14 <clsn> mm... it said on the post-Harvard page that different places have different accessibilities...
14:59:32 <clsn> .head http://nrs.harvard.edu/urn-3:FHCL.HOUGH:1276245
14:59:32 <phenny> clsn: 302
15:00:15 <sbp> .head http://nrs.harvard.edu/urn-3:FHCL.HOUGH:1276245 Location
15:00:15 <phenny> Location: http://pds.lib.harvard.edu/pds/view/8453853
15:00:32 <sbp> .head http://pds.lib.harvard.edu/pds/view/8453853
15:00:33 <phenny> sbp: 302, 0 bytes
15:00:38 <sbp> .head http://pds.lib.harvard.edu/pds/view/8453853 Location
15:00:38 <phenny> Location: http://access.harvard.edu/access/servlet/access?__hulaccess_gateway=pds&__hulaccess_resource=8453853
15:01:12 <clsn> .head
15:01:13 <phenny> clsn: 302, 0 bytes
15:01:21 <clsn> Geez, how much redirection is there?
15:01:24 <sbp> hehe
15:01:27 <sbp> eek!
15:01:29 <clsn> .head http://access.harvard.edu/access/servlet/access?__hulaccess_gateway=pds&__hulaccess_resource=8453853 Location
15:01:30 <phenny> Location: http://access.harvard.edu/access/servlet/access?__hulaccess_gateway=pds&__hulaccess_resource=8453853&__hulaccess_agent=Mozilla%2F5.0+%28Phenny%29&__hulaccess_referer=-&__hulaccess_ip=64.92.170.181&__hulaccess_cookie=test
15:02:03 <sbp> the University of Nebraska, Lincoln, Nebraska, Lincoln, etc. want 48 Euros for access to Radical Scatters
15:02:08 <sbp> .c 48 EUR in GBP
15:02:08 <phenny> 48 Euros = 37.289997 British pounds
15:02:44 <sbp> and I'd have to send a cheque
15:03:18 <sbp> guess how unimpressed I am on a scale of 1 to grumble?
15:03:50 <clsn> What's Radical Scatters?
15:03:59 <clsn> Sounds like a particle physics rock group.
15:04:04 <sbp> heh
15:04:12 <sbp> it's a collection of Dickinson materials
15:05:22 <clsn> Man... I'm going to assume, for the sake of sanity, that whoever designed Harvard's web network had a reason for doing it that way...
15:05:54 <clsn> I'm going to try to get to what you're looking for another way; maybe the deep linking is making this hard on the system. What should I search for?
15:06:02 <kpreid> sbp: maybe .head => 302 should print the Location automatically?
15:06:16 <sbp> clsn: welp, all the links are from here: http://oasis.lib.harvard.edu/oasis/deliver/~hou01457
15:06:18 <sbp> kpreid: good idea
15:06:27 <sbp> so, for example:
15:06:27 <sbp> [[[
15:06:28 <sbp> * (47a) Your Riches - taught me - Poverty. Ink. 2 1/3p.
15:06:28 <sbp> J 299, Fr 418
15:06:28 <sbp> Click for color digital facsimile
15:06:31 <sbp> ]]]
15:06:38 <sbp> -> http://nrs.harvard.edu/urn-3:FHCL.HOUGH:1276245
15:07:11 *** hex__ (i=keyweb@84.19.178.6) has joined #swhack
15:07:26 *** hex__ has quit (Client Quit)
15:07:43 <sbp> all of this information is the public domain in America, according to Bridgeman Art Library v. Corel Corp., 36 F. Supp. 2d 191 (S.D.N.Y. 1999), so I dunno what the deal is with all the restrictions and "pay me plz" everywhere
15:07:45 <sbp> well, I do...
15:08:05 <sbp> s/is the/is in the/
15:08:45 *** plum has quit (Remote closed the connection)
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15:09:37 <clsn> Mm. It says that places that accept more than one login type should be showing a list so I can select the one I have (Post Harvard), but this one only has HUID...
15:12:28 * sbp hmms at http://www.emilydickinson.org/classroom/spring99/edition/franklin/
15:13:03 <clsn> Maybe I'm supposed to have a HUID also...?
15:14:22 <clsn> Wonder if I can find my HUID number in old emails...
15:14:36 <sbp> hope so, because it's a cool name
15:16:49 <clsn> *blink* huh... where're my harvard emails? I know I wouldn't have thrown them out.
15:17:34 <clsn> Ah here we are.
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15:22:35 <clsn> wow. still not much luck. Will have to see if I can root through records...
15:22:49 <clsn> Will my PIN automatically expire when I leave Harvard?
15:22:49 <clsn> Your PIN will not automatically expire when you leave Harvard. However, after you leave, if you forget or disable your PIN, it may be difficult to obtain a new PIN. Harvard University does not always maintain address and email records of the people who leave. Therefore, personal contact information quickly becomes outdated. To continue using PIN-protected resources after you leave, make sure that your contact information is up to date before you go.
15:23:06 <clsn> So sort of "no, it won't expire, but don't ask us for help."
15:24:13 <clsn> Hell, did they even *HAVE* this system in place when I was there? I was there in 1991!
15:25:56 <sbp> chuckle
15:26:09 <sbp> no problem if it's too much of ye hassles
15:26:22 <sbp> just an arse that all this data should be tantalisingly misavailable
15:28:47 *** est has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:32:23 <lisppaste2> sbp pasted "Fascicle 16, concordance with the online version" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/58027
15:33:05 <_bjoern> paste.lisp.org should offer a #swhack pastes blog
15:33:45 <sbp> _bjoern: it does. http://paste.lisp.org/list.rss?swhack
15:33:55 <sbp> or http://paste.lisp.org/list-full.rss?swhack for full pastes
15:34:25 <_bjoern> blog, not feeds
15:34:37 * sbp subscribes
15:34:38 <sbp> heh
15:38:01 <kpreid> http://paste.lisp.org/list/swhack
15:43:48 <_bjoern> The full pastes in sets of 20 or something like that, not just the headlines...
15:47:47 <kpreid> just need an rss-to-html converter...
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15:52:41 <sbp> in perl6 pls _bjoern
15:55:07 <clsn> rss2html converters in xslt are not hard to find or write.
16:00:15 <sbp> yeah, you just have to write an xslt processor in perl6 first
16:00:40 <clsn> Some loser has probably already written that.
16:00:50 <sbp> hehe. if not, _bjoern can
16:01:39 <nsh> is fargo a good film?
16:01:42 <nsh> answer me true
16:01:44 <nslater> no
16:01:48 <nsh> whyno?
16:01:55 <nslater> i dont like it
16:02:26 <nsh> why, in this context, didn't mean, tell me something i could have guessed redundantly instead of ellaborating
16:03:22 <nslater> my response was meant to allude to the fact that I probably cant describe why I dont like it, I just dont :p
16:04:58 <nslater> okay... um, it's long and boring and the plot is one of those plots that when you finish watching you think "was that it?"
16:05:19 <nsh> ah, aight
16:05:27 <nslater> while all at the same time being slightly bitter that over an hour of your life will never again be recovered
16:05:32 <nsh> anyway, i just remembered that i need to watch One Flew Over
16:05:37 <nsh> which is a much safer bet
16:06:11 <nslater> yes, probably, though ive never been a fan of Nicholson
16:06:17 <sbp> watch Breakfast at Tiffany's
16:06:36 <nslater> oooh, not see that, want to
16:15:50 *** Arnia (n=jgeldart@cpc1-ipsw3-0-0-cust624.colc.cable.ntl.com) has joined #swhack
16:15:50 <Monty> Thank goodness, Arnia is back!
16:15:56 *** mmmmmrob has quit (Remote closed the connection)
16:16:31 <Arnia> I reckon badgers + sundays = Anneka Rice!
16:16:31 <phenny> Arnia: 01:31Z <kpreid> tell Arnia (when he returns) to remind me to ask him about preorder * monoid = category
16:16:48 <Arnia> kpreid: <reminder>
16:17:08 <kpreid> Arnia: I was just leaving, actually. Will ask when I get back.
16:17:14 <Arnia> cool
16:17:17 <nsh> Arnia
16:17:22 <nsh> how was ipswich and that?
16:17:33 <Arnia> nsh: how *is* and the answer is 'bloody awful'
16:17:51 <nsh> well, i was hoping on the off chance
16:18:04 <nsh> that they'd replaced it with another city since i last went
16:18:13 <nsh> but, whayagunnado
16:19:07 <nsh> why you there, again?
16:21:26 <Arnia> Wow... live-action Captain Planet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Planet_and_the_Planeteers
16:22:00 <clsn> Live-action? Just when I didn't think it could get worse.
16:22:45 <clsn> dammit, why is my net connection so incapable of forging an initial connection anywhere??
16:23:00 <Arnia> Forged in noon steel?
16:23:20 <Arnia> or forged in deception?
16:23:34 <clsn> You know, just timing out in the "connecting to www.hotbabez.net" or whatever...
16:24:37 <Arnia> Ah... here is a fun thing; I'm not only forbidden explicitly from using IRC or any form of messaging client, and not only do they block all web IRC clients (sorry xover :() but they also forbid me from reading *about* IRC
16:25:21 <clsn> OK that's weird...
16:26:34 <clsn> Wow, isn't it wonderful that websites can figure out that I somehow want them to open a huge window that takes over my screen?
16:26:46 *** mmmmmrob (n=mmmmmrob@62.172.77.66) has joined #swhack
16:26:46 <Monty> welcome, mmmmmrob
16:27:06 <nsh> wait
16:27:13 <nsh> what primary school are you at?
16:27:20 <Arnia> They also, in spite of wanting me to write Java, don't seem to let me install any version of the Java SDK above 1.4
16:27:32 <nsh> is this the BT tower centre place?
16:29:32 <clsn> waitasec, Captain Planet sucked donkey balls in its heyday. What makes them think that people now would be all hot to see it done again, with live actors?
16:31:59 <clsn> .ety nemesis
16:32:00 <phenny> "1576, 'Gk. goddess of vengeance,' from nemesis 'just indignation, jealousy, vengeance,' lit. 'distribution,' related to nemein 'distribute, allot, apportion one's due,' from PIE base *nem- 'to divide, distribute, allot, to take' (cf. O.E., Goth. niman 'to take,' Ger. [...]" - http://etymonline.com/?term=nemesis
16:32:39 <sbp> sushi + Beatles = win
16:32:54 * Arnia sends Anneka Rice after sbp
16:33:47 <sbp> also:
16:33:58 * nsh wonders what to do with a kilo of meatballs
16:34:09 <nsh> they go off in four days
16:34:22 <sbp> fire them into Sweden
16:34:23 <nsh> i can't eat that much cheap meatball in four days
16:34:32 <nsh> ah, interesting proposal
16:40:27 <nsh> oh man
16:40:32 <nsh> web factoid of the day
16:40:48 <nsh> the founder of the new york crips street-gang was nominated for the nobel peace prize
16:40:51 <nsh> awesome
16:41:02 <sbp> well, so was Esperanto
16:41:03 * nsh considers putting in some nominations for nobel prizes
16:41:09 <clsn> Nominated by whom? And what does it take to nominate?
16:41:17 <sbp> anybody can nominate, apparently
16:41:20 <nsh> i think someone just has to write them, a letter
16:41:22 <sbp> if Esperanto got nominated
16:41:24 <clsn> If any yokel can do it, who cares? There has to be some dork who'll nominate anyone.
16:41:44 <nsh> you don't see the c.v. potential this holds
16:41:52 * Arnia nominates Blair for the Nobel Peace Prize
16:42:09 <nsh> nsh, nominated for 16 nobel prizes, every year for a decade
16:42:10 <sbp> nsh: I'd nominate you but I don't know your name
16:42:11 <clsn> There'll be people who would support that, Arnia. Never underestimate it.
16:42:30 <nsh> you can nominate me as nsh, if esperanto can be nominated
16:42:34 <sbp> hehe
16:42:45 <sbp> give me your name in Esperanto, might grease their wheels a bit
16:42:54 <Arnia> clsn: it is even better if he gets it :p
16:42:55 <nsh> we could also send them some grease
16:43:15 <nsh> with a shakily written label saying "to help with the wheels"
16:43:20 <nsh> (in kid letters)
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16:52:36 <Arnia> nsh: just add it to the topic :p
16:52:49 *** nsh changed the topic to: "<Arnia> I feel like sailing the Enterprise up the River Orwell and letting loose a barrage on Martlesham Heath"
17:01:41 *** leobard (n=Miranda@88-134-43-245-dynip.superkabel.de) has joined #swhack
17:02:02 *** MoiraA has quit ("I know when I'm not wanted somewhere!")
17:04:17 * nsh ponders on mirrors
17:07:02 <Arnia> what sort?
17:07:27 <nsh> reflecting mirros
17:07:30 <nsh> *mirrors
17:07:50 <Arnia> what sort?
17:08:05 <nsh> planar
17:08:23 <Arnia> wh... ok ok :p
17:08:27 *** RobotGuy (n=robotguy@dsl093-038-072.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #swhack
17:08:27 * nsh is trying to explain to himself why the mirror reflects in one axis and not another
17:08:30 * Arnia bounces
17:08:37 <nsh> and hisself is not satisfied
17:08:57 <nslater> reflects in one axis?
17:08:58 <Arnia> E_CASE_ERROR
17:09:09 <nsh> ("refect" that is, as the geometrical transformation, rather than the reflection of light)
17:10:11 * nsh looks at himself in a mirror and holds out his upper left limb
17:10:18 <nsh> the nsh in the mirror holds out his upper right limb
17:10:27 <nsh> why upper right and not lower left?
17:11:18 <Arnia> nsh: normals
17:11:40 <nsh> there is no difference between normals to the left and right, and normals above and below
17:11:46 <nsh> geometrically speaking
17:11:49 <twe> And is on google books found in between.
17:12:40 <nslater> nsh: because you are rotating around the horizontal axis
17:12:59 <nsh> how do you mean, nslater?
17:13:07 <Arnia> There is a difference... the line of your sight
17:13:12 <nslater> nsh: imagine instead of a mirror a sqare of perspex. draw a dot in the upper right quadrent
17:13:27 <nslater> if you rotate your self around the square it will shift from right to left
17:13:42 <nslater> if you rotate your self around the square going over the top it will shift from top to botto,
17:13:52 <nslater> so it's about which axes you rotate your view around
17:13:55 <nsh> right...
17:13:59 <nsh> which doesn't answer the question
17:14:05 <nslater> it does, the mirror is doing the same
17:14:21 <nslater> it is presenting you with a view of your self from the "other side" of the perspex
17:15:35 <nslater> if you look at the perspex through a mirror you are seeing in the mirror the oposite side of the perspex from what faces the mirror
17:15:41 <nslater> ugh, im not very good with explaining things
17:15:42 *** Nirvikalpa (n=opera@ipa116.25.91.tellas.gr) has joined #swhack
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17:16:12 <Arnia> Don't become a teacher :)
17:16:26 * nsh ('s self) is still not satisfied
17:16:41 <nslater> i think I would be quite good as a teacher, I'm pretty verbally articulate when speaking, I have a reall problem writing down my ideas though
17:16:49 * nsh smiles
17:17:15 <Arnia> Don't become a textbook writer then
17:17:23 <nslater> I have no intention to :p
17:17:26 <nsh> so, why does the mirror rotate me around itself horizontally, rather than vertically?
17:17:34 <nsh> or around myself, even
17:17:45 * nslater thinks
17:17:59 <nsh> the plane of the mirror has no preference for horizontality above verticality
17:18:07 <nsh> the only "special" line is between me and the mirror
17:18:16 <twe> Is there a mirror in the line.
17:18:19 <nslater> aha
17:18:31 <nslater> ... i think i have it, let me ponder how i could explain it
17:21:58 <Arnia> "I want to be your lover, I want to wrap you in rubber"
17:22:24 <_bjoern> Störchecheck
17:22:27 <sbp> ooh
17:22:45 <sbp> female, standing
17:22:55 <sbp> legs viewed side on so it appears there is only one
17:23:02 <nsh> man, you guys
17:23:02 <sbp> she is looxing at the road
17:23:11 <nsh> had better be steganographically communicating something
17:23:13 <Arnia> Yeah, mang
17:23:33 <nsh> with all this storkendaftness
17:23:35 <sbp> storks have been on this planet for tens of thousands of years
17:23:51 <_bjoern> The female who occupied the Storchenscheune previously has now permanently moved to a nearby nest, with the male she began an affair with last year.
17:24:03 <sbp> saucy
17:24:08 <Arnia> _bjoern: it is like a soap opera!
17:24:11 <Arnia> With a noisy dog
17:24:19 <_bjoern> the male lost a fight for the Storchenscheune nest early march
17:24:22 * Arnia looks out the window at the yapping
17:24:31 <_bjoern> he never came back to Bornheim
17:24:51 <_bjoern> the female is about to have her 10th birthday
17:25:25 <Arnia> But will it be a happy occasion as an old secret is about to out
17:25:50 <_bjoern> she also lost a fight for the nest in 2007, pix and details on http://pfalzstorch.blogspot.com/2007/03/kampf-in-der-nacht.html
17:25:57 <Arnia> We should write little TV guide summaries
17:25:59 <_bjoern> That concludes the latest blog post's summary.
17:26:50 <Arnia> Are Störche common in Germany?
17:27:05 <nslater> hold the perspex up, if you move in an arc around it letting your focus shift only in the x dimension (left and right) then you only see the dot shift from left to right, if you move in an arc around it letting your eyes shift from in the y dimension you see it move from top to bottom. holding it up to a mirror only changes your view point in the x dimenson because if you angled the mirror to shift the y dimension you would no longer be able to see the pe
17:27:13 <nslater> snipped?
17:27:20 <nslater> bah, this is really annoying me
17:27:22 <_bjoern> I shall research the question immediately
17:27:23 <sbp> nslater: we're onto storks now
17:27:35 <nslater> im not, and i never will be, so na na na
17:27:42 <_bjoern> I note however that the project we are monitoring is dedicated to help them thrive again
17:27:50 <Arnia> nslater: It is the Nation of Swhack's National Stork Hour
17:28:08 <Arnia> Every day for an hour, by order of our Glorious Leader, Monty
17:28:09 <Monty> runes == phobias;
17:28:18 <_bjoern> Wikipedia has next to nothing on the subject matter
17:28:18 * nslater grumbles
17:28:23 * Arnia jumps at the sigils
17:29:10 <_bjoern> oh under white storks
17:29:25 <_bjoern> 1934 about 9000 couples
17:29:37 <_bjoern> 1959 - 4800
17:29:54 <_bjoern> ~1985 - 2949
17:29:59 <Arnia> oh noe!
17:30:13 <Arnia> To the Stork Factory!
17:30:19 <_bjoern> ~2001 - 4500 + 400
17:30:31 * Arnia ponders if storks bring other storks like they bring babies
17:30:39 <_bjoern> 78% have their nests in East Germany
17:30:46 <_bjoern> up from 50% in the 50s
17:30:46 *** MoiraA (i=moira@tor/regular/pdpc.supporter.active.MoiraA) has joined #swhack
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17:32:58 <_bjoern> ~230.000 world wide atm
17:33:43 <_bjoern> In comparison, 52 500 in poland in 2004
17:34:10 <_bjoern> same year, 392 in austria
17:34:25 <_bjoern> ch had 211 in 2005
17:34:45 <_bjoern> In conclusion I am not sure whether to say yes or no.
17:34:55 <sbp> 4500 + 400? what's the reason for the division?
17:34:59 <sbp> why not just 4900?
17:35:15 <nslater> nsh: the mirror doesnt change anything, from your perspective the perspex in front of you and in the mirror both have a dot in the top right. the problem is a false one and simple a matter of perspective, if me and you both stood opposite each other and held out our arms in alignment you would have the same effect
17:35:19 <_bjoern> phenny, de "Hinzu kommen noch ca. 400 Paare, die in oder in der Umgebung von Tierparks, Vogelpflegestationen etc. brüten und sich dort aus dem Futterangebot ernähren."?
17:35:19 <phenny> _bjoern: "In addition come still approx.. 400 pairs, which breed in or in the environment of tierparks, bird care stations etc. and nourish themselves there from the fodder offer." (de)
17:36:26 <nsh> nslater, if you and me stand opposite each other, we can both read each others t-shirt slogans
17:37:06 <nslater> nsh: yes, but if you drew lines from your tshirt in real life and the one in the mirror then you will see that the lines dont "flip" or change, they are perfectly parrallel
17:37:07 <_bjoern> So the point would seem to be they are not independent
17:37:39 <_bjoern> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild:Weissstorch_Verbreitungskarte-de.svg has a map
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17:38:04 <nslater> nsh: its like looking at the behind of the letters on your own tshirt
17:38:26 <nsh> how does the mirror see my t-shirt from behind?!
17:38:30 <nslater> nsh: or writing on some perspex and looking from behind it
17:38:32 <nsh> this is not making any sense to me
17:38:45 <nsh> (please stop talking about perspex, i have no idea where that came from and have been ignoring it)
17:38:47 <nsh> :-)
17:38:52 <nslater> glass
17:38:53 <nslater> perspex
17:38:55 <nslater> clear stuff
17:39:04 <nslater> a square of material you can see through
17:39:26 <nsh> sure, i know what perspex is. was just wondering why you had to introduce another element into the already confusing situation
17:39:47 <nslater> because it's useful to imagine drawing on a sheet of the stuff and then walking behind it
17:40:00 <nslater> geometrically that's all you're doing with the mirror
17:40:36 <nslater> nothing has flipped over, except your perspective on the same set of points on a 2d plane
17:41:10 <nsh> you're still missing the point i made earlier
17:41:18 <sbp> .title http://entertainment.slashdot.org/entertainment/08/03/25/2337211.shtml
17:41:18 <nslater> why is it left to right?
17:41:18 <phenny> sbp: Slashdot | What Will Life Be Like In 2008?
17:41:27 <sbp> “Back in 1968, Modern Mechanix mused what life would be like in 40 years.”
17:41:31 <nsh> if you walk around you are preserving one axis because of the way you walk on earth (horizontal circle)
17:41:33 <sbp> -> http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2008/03/24/what-will-life-be-like-in-the-year-2008/
17:41:35 <sbp> .title
17:41:37 <phenny> sbp: What Will Life Be Like in the Year 2008?
17:41:42 <nsh> if you walked around on a loop-the-loop
17:41:47 <nsh> then up and down would be reversed
17:41:50 <nslater> yes
17:41:59 <nsh> why does the mirror recreate one type of going around and not the other?
17:43:50 <sbp> [[[
17:43:50 <sbp> $0.17 Musicians' unions
17:43:51 <sbp> $0.80 Packaging/manufacturing
17:43:51 <sbp> $0.82 Publishing royalties
17:43:51 <sbp> $0.80 Retail profit
17:43:51 <sbp> $0.90 Distribution
17:43:53 <sbp> $1.60 Artists' royalties
17:43:55 <sbp> $1.70 Label profit
17:43:57 <sbp> $2.40 Marketing/promotion
17:44:01 <sbp> $2.91 Label overhead
17:44:05 <sbp> $3.89 Retail overhead
17:44:07 <sbp> ]]] - where the money goes on a $15.99 CD
17:44:09 <sbp> from http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/6558540/walmart_wants_10_cds
17:44:37 <nslater> if you imagine a 2d matrix of points in front of the mirror, all the mirror has done is bring those points forward
17:44:49 <nslater> there is no reversal of any sort
17:45:10 <sbp> woah: http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/swift/bursts/brightest_grb.html
17:45:18 <nslater> no matter where you stand in front of the mirror, a point in the top right is still a point in the top right in the reflection
17:45:22 <sbp> [[[
17:45:23 <sbp> Never before has anything so far away come even close to naked-eye visibility. The explosion was so far away that it took its light 7,500,000,000 (7.5 billion) years to reach Earth! In fact, the explosion took place so long ago that Earth had not yet come into existence.
17:45:23 <sbp> ]]]
17:46:24 <nslater> nsh: the "reversal" thing is a fallacy, nothing is reversed, an object in the top left in front of you as you look in the mirror is still an object in the top left as you see it in the reflection
17:46:51 <nslater> nsh: you're comparing your view of the scene with the view of the "person in the reflection" which makes no sense
17:47:07 <nslater> nsh: from your view point alone, everything is totally consistant
17:47:43 <nslater> nsh: thats like asking why my left is your right in real life as we stand oposite
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17:48:18 <_bjoern> au has the highest vibrator density in the world. most popular model is "Rabbit"
17:49:05 <sbp> not surprising
17:49:16 <sbp> where'd you find that out?
17:49:35 <_bjoern> german boulevard newspaper web site
17:49:35 <sbp> the pix on http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2008/03/24/what-will-life-be-like-in-the-year-2008/ are hilarious
17:49:44 <sbp> ô, k, tx
17:49:45 *** xjrn (n=xjrn@c-76-102-228-197.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #swhack
17:50:02 <_bjoern> Rumor: Napoleon's penis has been auctioned off to an USian for 40000 USD
17:50:14 <_bjoern> .gc ôktx
17:50:15 <phenny> ôktx: 4,790
17:50:46 <cre8radix> hrhr
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17:51:09 *** cre8radix is now known as cre8radix|afk
17:51:46 <_bjoern> females get as aroused watching f on f sex as they do with f on m sex.
17:52:28 <_bjoern> Barnacle penis up to 30 times its own size
17:53:43 <_bjoern> Kellogg came up with his cornflakes to reduce masturbation rates
17:55:22 <JibberJim> Enjoying yourself _bjoern?
17:56:13 <_bjoern> No, that's why I'm reading this shit.
17:56:37 <JibberJim> :)
18:00:42 <nslater> why are we all still voiced?
18:01:05 <nslater> I reckon IRC + turnips == serious business. :p
18:01:27 <kpreid> Arnia:
18:01:35 <Arnia> kpreid:
18:02:32 <kpreid> I am neither absent nor going to be shortly
18:03:26 <Arnia> Good good
18:03:36 <Arnia> So, pre-orders and monoids
18:03:55 <Arnia> Give me a moment to finish reading the hysterical MI article and I'll be with you
18:04:23 <kpreid> hysterical multiple inheritance?
18:05:27 <Arnia> http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2008/03/24/what-will-life-be-like-in-the-year-2008/
18:09:54 <_bjoern> phenny, de "Als Ägypten Libyen überfiel (13. Jahrhundert v. Christus), nahmen die Sieger 13.230 Penisse ihrer Besiegten mit."?
18:09:55 <phenny> _bjoern: "When Egypt Libya attacked (13th century v. Christus), carried the winners forward 13,230 Penisse of their defeated ones." (de)
18:10:16 <_bjoern> sbp, did you change translation services? It feels much worse than usual...
18:14:29 <bancus> Penisse?
18:14:37 <bancus> Sounds like a semen-derived mousse.
18:15:14 <bancus> "Oh, my. Your hair is fabulous." "Oh, thanks. I'm trying this new mousse, called Penisse." "Oh, yeah! The one made from real semen?"
18:15:56 <bancus> why do I have voice?
18:16:00 <bancus> I am no bot.
18:16:13 <nslater> i bet plum doesnt have a voice
18:16:15 <plum> stop the bots not here, i you name bots?
18:16:23 <nslater> how backwards
18:19:13 <nsh> bancus, it's cos you so money, you don't know
18:20:55 <bancus> Shit was so cash.
18:21:24 <nsh> yeah, me now just so credit
18:21:35 <nslater> Just went tafting; Shit was SO Swhack
18:21:35 <nsh> and not very universally accepted either :-/
18:21:49 <nsh> was't SHITRUDE?
18:22:03 * nslater is pretty much perfect
18:22:17 <nsh> .gs nobody's *
18:22:18 <phenny> nobody's *: perfect (9), watching (7), darling (7), perect (5), fool (5), bizness (5), waterproof (4), real lyrics (4), deli (4), business (4), reading (3)
18:22:34 <nsh> nobody's waterproof on the internets!
18:22:53 <_bjoern> storks in moody colors http://g.photos.cx/nestz6we4f324223242434-70.jpg
18:24:05 <sbp> _bjoern: nope, exactly the same
18:24:30 <sbp> ooh, pretty
18:30:03 <_bjoern> day / night switch just happened
18:32:45 *** therethinker (n=therethi@c-24-34-102-128.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #swhack
18:32:46 <Monty> hi therethinker, how ya doing?
18:32:52 <therethinker> Awesome monty, and you?
18:32:57 <Monty> bancus, it's basically a point would just like metaphorical Anglo-Saxon sword
18:35:32 <sbp> ah! damn, I missed it
18:35:40 <sbp> at least we know roughly what time now
18:36:33 <sbp> how come you can see streetlights through its head?
18:36:38 <sbp> must be some other refraction effect
18:36:53 <_bjoern> I suspect the cam is behind glass
18:37:16 <therethinker> What happened?
18:37:38 <_bjoern> Störche.
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18:42:02 <clsn> I read an explanation from Martin Gardner once about the mirror-reflect thingy... I think I know where the book is
18:46:32 <therethinker> http://consumerist.com/assets/resources/2008/03/phishing.jpg -- that /has/ to be one of the-best sign screw-ups ever. Yes, ever.
18:46:59 <clsn> The life-in-2008 article is fun also for the things it gets *right* (or close to right)
18:47:31 <deltab> clsn: the hand-bag dimension?
18:47:39 <clsn> I haven't finished the article...
18:47:55 <clsn> But shopping by telephone (ok, computer), sending sketches and stuff...
18:48:45 <therethinker> .title http://blogs.wsj.com/biztech/2008/03/17/yahoos-unlimited-email-hits-its-limit/
18:48:46 <phenny> therethinker: Business Technology : Yahoo's "Unlimited" Email Hits Its Limit
18:48:51 <therethinker> Ooh, also, yay lies!
18:49:06 <clsn> "the world's information is available almost instantaneously"--aside from being on the computer instead of the TV, pretty good.
18:51:00 *** nsh has quit (Connection timed out)
18:51:12 <clsn> deltab: wtf do you mean "hand-bag dimension"?
18:51:56 <nslater> .g "hand-bag dimension"
18:51:57 <phenny> nslater: http://www.b2btrade.biz/leads_80574/
18:53:03 * Arnia just had five phone calls come in in a row
18:55:48 <sbp> whats ur number, let Swhack phone u 2
18:56:01 <therethinker> Hehe
18:57:58 <deltab> "This morning, British newspapers pictured her Sark naked." — Channel 4 News subtitles
19:00:11 <deltab> clsn: I've read an explanation from Martin Gardner once about a mirror-reflection thingy ("why do mirrors reverse left and right?"), in which he points out that the problem disappears if you put a bag over one hand
19:00:33 <deltab> giving you a bag side and a hand side
19:01:52 <Arnia> deltab: I love subtitling.
19:02:10 <clsn> Maybe; the one I recall had to do with imagining standing on a horizontal mirror too, I think.
19:04:37 <deltab> we're so used to rotating our frame of reference around a vertical axis to project onto other people, that we sometimes even do it to reflections
19:05:43 <deltab> your left hand waves, your reflection's apparent right hand waves
19:06:54 <sbp> ooh
19:07:07 <sbp> that's obvious now
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19:08:09 <deltab> chapter 16 of Mathematical Puzzles and Diversions
19:08:27 <deltab> sbp: "now" meaning 50 years later?
19:08:31 <sbp> whereas it's just that the bag hand is opposite the bag hand, and the hand hand opposite the hand hand...
19:08:41 <sbp> yeah. it takes science a long time to catch up to such genius
19:09:55 <clsn> The only "reversal" that happens is the distance along the perpendicular-to-the-mirror axis.
19:11:06 <nslater> sbp: why are we all voiced?
19:11:08 <deltab> oh, actually it's a letter from Dr Robert D. Tschirgi and Dr John Langdon Taylor Jr.
19:11:19 <sbp> FINE
19:11:28 <_bjoern> nu
19:11:30 * Arnia snarfs
19:11:33 <sbp> now we're not all voiced
19:11:42 <nslater> pff
19:11:42 <_bjoern> excellent.
19:11:48 <sbp> easy fix
19:11:56 <nslater> also, deltab's explanation was the same as mine
19:12:06 <nslater> but mine was apparently lost to the winds of swhack
19:12:11 <sbp> I didn't even understand what you and nsh were talking about
19:12:20 <sbp> then deltab pipes up with bag-hands and I'm all "o!"
19:12:21 <Arnia> sbp: eating badgers
19:12:22 <nslater> i blame nsh and his toasdstools
19:12:33 <sbp> Arnia: could well be for all I know!
19:13:03 <nslater> my argument was the same, nothing is reversed it's your projection of perspective on the other person
19:13:06 <nslater> bah...
19:14:02 <nslater> can i be voiced again pls
19:14:55 <Arnia> NO U
19:15:03 <Arnia> Uons
19:22:54 <Arnia> Oodles of uons
19:23:11 <nslater> win
19:23:51 <clsn> Wait, which nuclear force is mediated by uons again....?
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19:25:42 <_bjoern> "The newest high-end apartments on Mars are being marketed with a headphone closet." - http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2008/03/17.html
19:26:16 <nslater> heh, you only just read that? :p
19:26:33 <_bjoern> Yes.
19:27:29 <nslater> there was some interesting discussion about it here in swhack a while back...
19:28:01 <nslater> .swhack martian mindsets
19:28:12 <_bjoern> I am sure people started mentioning things like "SGML" and "GHTML" and I ignored the whole thing
19:28:26 <phenny> nslater: http://swhack.com/logs/2008-03-18#T05-55-09
19:28:53 <nslater> there was a massing reaction to it in the "blogosphere" and some very intelligent critisisms
19:29:41 <nslater> _bjoern: http://hsivonen.iki.fi/rdf/
19:30:38 <_bjoern> You just used "blogosphere" and "intelligent" in the same sentence.
19:30:55 <sbp> heh. must've been a typo
19:31:11 <nslater> there are a few exceptions, though very rare
19:31:14 * nslater grins
19:31:27 <_bjoern> He could also be sane and sober?
19:31:58 <nslater> gives me an idea for a topic change...
19:35:47 <sbp> _bjoern: count yourself lucky, you didn't have to see it
19:36:08 <nslater> sbp: cf. http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyarchives/1087.html
19:37:34 <_bjoern> I can't suddenly start to count myself lucky, I haven't done that in many ... lifes.
19:39:04 <sbp> oho
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19:43:32 * Arnia sort of agrees with Joel
19:47:28 <nslater> sure, but his conclusions are flawed as Henri Sivonen points out
19:48:07 <nslater> also of interest is: http://diveintomark.org/archives/2008/03/18/translation-from-ms-speak-to-english-of-selected-portions-of-joel-spolskys-martin-headsets
19:48:10 * nslater grins
19:48:13 * nslater ducks and covers
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19:55:03 <pierpa> phenny: help
19:55:03 <phenny> pierpa: Hi, I'm a bot. Say ".commands" to me in private for a list of my commands, or see http://inamidst.com/phenny/ for more general details. My owner is sbp.
19:57:39 <RobotGuy> Phenny is either very busy or is not responding.
19:59:41 <nslater> phenny!
19:59:42 <phenny> nslater!
20:00:22 <kpreid> phenny isn't identifying with nickserv
20:00:28 <nslater> huh?
20:00:34 <kpreid> so you have to SET UNFILTERED ON if you want to get the messages
20:00:41 <nslater> oh right...
20:00:57 <kpreid> phenny: tell sbp if .commands is going to work in private for phenny, phenny needs to identify
20:00:57 <phenny> kpreid: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
20:01:12 <kpreid> Arnia: hallooo?
20:02:29 <Arnia> boing?
20:02:50 <RobotGuy> Zoink
20:03:00 <kpreid> Arnia: Been waitin' for you to continue
20:04:06 <Arnia> ah, sorry
20:05:03 <pierpa> .a foo
20:05:13 <kpreid> .b bar
20:05:20 <pierpa> .c baz
20:05:21 <phenny> pierpa: Sorry, no result.
20:06:47 <Arnia> kpreid: right... so imagine a preorder. Now we can render this as a graph by having an arrow from A to B iff a =< b
20:06:54 <Arnia> sorry, A =< B
20:07:27 <kpreid> ok, a --> b iff a <= b :-)
20:07:36 *** RobotGuy has quit (Remote closed the connection)
20:07:41 <kpreid> got it
20:07:46 <kpreid> 1 --> 2 --> 3
20:08:45 <Arnia> Now, as you might imagine this meets the axioms of a category without effort
20:08:55 <kpreid> a → b iff a ≤ b
20:08:57 <kpreid> Arnia: Indeed
20:09:49 <Arnia> Now, imagine a monoid. How would we render that situation as a graph?
20:10:28 <kpreid> It doesn't come to mind immediately...
20:10:33 <Arnia> The standard way to do it is to consider a one object category
20:11:00 <Arnia> You make the elements of the monoid endoarrows (that is, arrows from the object to itself)
20:11:18 <kpreid> Aha!
20:11:24 <kpreid> That's...twisty.
20:11:28 <Arnia> Then the monoid operation is just composition of arrows, and the identity element of monoids is the identity arrow
20:12:29 <Arnia> So, you now have a way of looking at endoarrows, and a way of looking at arrows between objects.
20:12:35 <twe> And i have now.
20:13:20 <Arnia> If you generalise the notion of a preorder to allow more than one arrow between any pair of objects, you can easily combine that generalisation with the notion of a monoid as a category to get a good intuition for the abstractness of all categories
20:13:28 <twe> Mind you, i'm not as easily.
20:13:44 *** nwalsh (n=ndw@66-189-4-239.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com) has joined #swhack
20:14:32 <sbp> kpreid: also, set unfiltered on
20:14:32 <phenny> sbp: 20:06Z <kpreid> tell sbp if .commands is going to work in private for phenny, phenny needs to identify
20:14:43 <sbp> done, though
20:14:45 <kpreid> sbp: I'm talking about other people, not me :-)
20:14:52 <sbp> oh, actually, not done. is borken
20:14:55 <kpreid> sbp: or are you going to put that in phenny's help message?
20:15:12 <sbp> well really it's Freenode that should fix it
20:15:29 <sbp> I maintain that having unfiltered off by default is unreasonable
20:15:50 <kpreid> Arnia: wait, so the arrows from the preorder ∪ the arrows from the monoid...? or are there layers I missed?
20:16:45 <Arnia> Yeah, add them together. But just for intuition purposes
20:17:07 <Arnia> You can think of a category as behaving a lot like a mixture of a monoid with a preorder
20:18:12 <therethinker> Does everyone know its ODF day!!! :D
20:23:31 <sbp> *tumbleweed*
20:24:26 <jsled> Opulent Dictatorial Friends?
20:25:38 <_bjoern> phenny, de "Manche Ideen sind so offensichtlich hirnrissig, dass es einem körperlich weh tut, überhaupt nur von ihnen zu lesen. Z.B. die folgende Idee: "Laßt uns SQL in Javascript machen". Client-Side. Demnächst also auch SQL Injection im Browser. Ganz, ganz groß, Apple. Wer auch sonst könnte auf so eine grenzdebile Idee kommen."?
20:26:23 <_bjoern> .title http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/03/25/ntory125.xml
20:27:06 <_bjoern> .title http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7313637.stm
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20:29:07 <sbp> phenny!
20:29:42 <Arnia> Brad!
20:29:44 *** phenny has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:29:51 *** phenny (i=sbp@bia.crschmidt.net) has joined #swhack
20:30:01 <Arnia> phenny!
20:30:12 <phenny> Arnia!
20:32:04 <sbp> phenny: reload *
20:32:04 <phenny> sbp: done
20:32:13 <sbp> there we go
20:32:26 <sbp> thx kpreid
20:33:10 <sbp> _bjoern: ever been to Göttingen?
20:33:20 <sbp> phenny, de "Manche Ideen sind so offensichtlich hirnrissig, dass es einem körperlich weh tut, überhaupt nur von ihnen zu lesen. Z.B. die folgende Idee: "Laßt uns SQL in Javascript machen". Client-Side. Demnächst also auch SQL Injection im Browser. Ganz, ganz groß, Apple. Wer auch sonst könnte auf so eine grenzdebile Idee kommen."?
20:33:21 <phenny> sbp: "Some ideas are so obviously brain cracked that it does physically pain to one to read at all only from them to. E.G. the following idea: "let us SQL in Javascript make". Client Side. Shortly thus also SQL Injection in the Browser. Completely, completely largely, Apple. Who also otherwise could come on so a grenzdebile idea." (de)
20:33:26 <sbp> .title http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/03/25/ntory125.xml
20:33:27 <phenny> sbp: Sterilise parents on benefits, says Tory - Telegraph
20:33:35 <sbp> .title http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7313637.stm
20:33:36 <phenny> sbp: BBC NEWS | Business | Credit crunch 'at $1.2 trillion'
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20:39:19 <kpreid> .gc burrito
20:39:20 <phenny> burrito: 516,000
20:39:24 <kpreid> .gc burritino
20:39:25 <phenny> burritino: 15
20:41:53 <therethinker> Heh, I decided I'm going to try to break the fourth wall in real life...
20:41:55 <therethinker> Like, saying things like "Can you speak up? I can't read captions backwards..."
20:42:36 <_bjoern> OMG MAIL FROM NSLATER
20:43:17 <sbp> what? I want mail from nslater
20:43:43 <_bjoern> arent you on www-tag anymore?
20:44:24 <sbp> nope
20:44:30 <therethinker> I want mail from nslater!
20:44:40 <therethinker> Does he send monies?
20:44:53 <_bjoern> or ponies <3
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20:46:35 <therethinker> Yus
21:02:09 <sbp> .calc 1 / phi
21:02:10 <phenny> 1 / phi = phi (?) ^-1
21:02:13 <sbp> .c 1 / phi
21:02:13 <phenny> 1 / the golden ratio = 0.618033989
21:02:28 <therethinker> .c phi
21:02:29 <phenny> the golden ratio = 1.61803399
21:02:37 <therethinker> OMG ITZ MAJIX
21:03:09 <sbp> so is +q
21:03:45 <therethinker> Heh
21:09:29 <therethinker> Yay
21:17:15 <nslater> jeez, even plum is on www-tag
21:17:15 <plum> haha, yay random german person jabbering me.
21:17:36 <therethinker> www-tag?
21:18:05 <nslater> it's a W3C mailing list for the Technical Architecture Group
21:18:20 <therethinker> Ooh, I assumed that it was something else
21:19:46 <sbp> she's something else!
21:20:00 <sbp> bombombombombombombombombombombombombombombom
21:20:12 <nslater> wat
21:20:44 <sbp> it's a song by Eddie Cochran
21:21:07 <nslater> ah, missed-cultural-reference syndrome
21:21:14 <bancus> bomb-bomb-bomb bomb-bomb Iran?
21:21:40 <therethinker> :P
21:21:47 <sbp> bancus: back then, America was more frightened by Russia
21:22:21 <bancus> Bomb the Russians!
21:22:27 <bancus> .g lyrics "bomb the russians"
21:22:28 <phenny> bancus: http://www.metrolyrics.com/bomb-the-russians-lyrics-fear.html
21:26:57 <sbp> .gc shitrude
21:26:57 <phenny> shitrude: 153
21:27:00 <sbp> .gc choxelles
21:27:01 <phenny> choxelles: 3
21:33:53 <clsn> ooookay. email address at jewwatch.com subscribed to the kli mailing list. hmm.
21:35:36 <bancus> Heh.
21:36:45 <clsn> Wondering what if anything I should do or think about it. In fact, though, it's probably a spammer subscribing so that the emails will go through (since you have to be subscribed to post)
21:36:57 <clsn> i.e. probably a forged address.
21:37:39 <bancus> jewwatch.com is a real site, though
21:37:53 <clsn> Yes, I know. That's why it caught my attention.
21:38:03 <bancus> Which, for whatever reason, spells the C in watch with a hammer and sickle.
21:38:18 <clsn> Communism==Evil.
21:38:20 * bancus didn't realize that the soviets were zionists.
21:38:42 <clsn> You really haven't been keeping up on nutty conspiracy theories then.
21:39:03 <bancus> ISTR that the Soviets didn't treat the Jews very well, actually.
21:39:22 <clsn> They didn't.
21:39:30 <bancus> Heh.
21:39:39 <clsn> But nutty conspiracy theories are not under any obligation to align with reality.
21:39:40 <therethinker> hmm
21:39:48 <therethinker> .c c in smoots per second
21:39:49 <phenny> the speed of light = 176 161 980 smoots per second
21:39:53 <bancus> "Jewish Religions: Judaism, Atheism, Christianity, Millenialism, Magic/Wiccan Cults ..."
21:39:57 <bancus> What the fuck.
21:40:09 <therethinker> Who?
21:40:16 <bancus> jewwatch.com
21:40:36 <clsn> jewwatch is a huge well-known hate site. There was a big fuss some years ago when it was discovered it was the top google hit for "jew"
21:40:36 <therethinker> .c c in sheppeys per second
21:40:36 <phenny> therethinker: Sorry, no result.
21:40:43 <therethinker> Wow, that sucks
21:40:56 <clsn> Some people wrote to Google to tell them to "fix it," when in fact it's the world that has to fix it.
21:41:17 <clsn> People worked on putting in more links etc... I think now it's wikipedia's entry. jewwatch is second or something.
21:41:22 <clsn> .g jew
21:41:24 <phenny> clsn: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jew
21:42:10 <therethinker> wikipedia's links don't help pagerang
21:42:12 <therethinker> *rank
21:42:21 <clsn> No, but links TO it help.
21:42:41 <clsn> So people worked on putting more links in their pages etc.
21:42:58 <therethinker> Links on Wikipedia to ext. sites don't help the ext. sites
21:43:08 * clsn didn't sign the petition to Google. It's not Google's job to change it.
21:43:34 <clsn> Right. People put links FROM other sites TO WP's page to increase WP's pagerank, in order to beat out jewwatch's.
21:43:42 <therethinker> Ahhhh
21:43:58 <therethinker> I thought you were saying links to jewwatch on wikipedia are bumping it up
21:44:15 <clsn> nono... this was in response to it. Eep, must run, talk later.,
21:44:24 <therethinker> Eep you~!
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22:40:58 <_bjoern> .wik Blackwater Fever
22:40:58 <phenny> "Blackwater fever is a complication of malaria characterized by intravascular haemolysis, haemoglobinuria and kidney failure." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackwater_Fever
22:42:06 <nslater> lovely
22:42:12 <therethinker> yes
22:42:52 <therethinker> </irony type="dramatic">I'd hate it if nslater got it!
22:43:13 <nslater> irony? are you from the states by any chance?
22:43:20 <therethinker> why?
22:43:25 <therethinker> Oops, ignore the slash
22:43:33 <nslater> because you americans always misuse the word irony
22:43:38 <therethinker> I know, it sucks
22:43:45 <therethinker> but /dramatic irony/ is different
22:43:51 <nslater> nope, it's still wrong
22:44:00 <therethinker> Well, normally, it would be
22:44:10 <therethinker> But if you see the backlog, I'm breaking the fourth wall
22:44:30 <nslater> </souffle type="dramatic">you cant break the fourth wall via IRC
22:44:56 <therethinker> ...as in I'm pretending I'm in a book/movie
22:45:06 <therethinker> Like "Talk louder, I can't read captions backwards"
22:45:11 <therethinker> ...but that doesn't work on IRC
22:45:14 <nslater> wat
22:45:47 <nslater> so, you're pretending this is a theatrical channel for entertainment?
22:45:48 <therethinker> in real life, I could break the pretend 4th wall by saying that. You know, in movies? When they wisper, there's subtitles
22:45:56 <therethinker> Not just this channel
22:46:10 <nslater> ... that doesnt mean you can break the 4th wall
22:46:21 <nslater> only someone IN the production can break the 4th wall
22:46:28 <therethinker> Exactly!
22:46:37 <therethinker> I'm *pretending* that I'm in a book/movie
22:46:47 <nslater> im lost, I suspect that you're talking nonsense</irony>
22:48:14 <_bjoern> phenny, tell sbp WE BEATZ ICELAND 4 ONZE http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article3617160.ece
22:48:22 <_bjoern> phenny!
22:48:28 <phenny> _bjoern!
22:48:29 <phenny> _bjoern: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
22:50:31 <_bjoern> .gcs Nicola +Nicola
22:50:34 <phenny> Nicola (25,700,000), +Nicola (25,700,000)
22:50:55 <_bjoern> I get 30,600,000 for the latter
22:51:13 <therethinker> Okay, for the intent of humor
22:51:26 <_bjoern> .gcs Björn +Björn
22:51:27 <phenny> Björn (24,200,000), +Björn (14,800,000)
22:51:35 <therethinker> I relized I could make statements, pretending that I was in a book/movie, that break the 4th wall
22:54:37 <thelsdj> hmm, been working on this project on and off for 18 months now, and hopefully within the next few days we'll release it to a few customers, can't wait till i can put this one behind me
22:55:35 <thelsdj> though my guess is a month or more until released to all users and probably going to be high maintanence for a few more months
22:55:55 <therethinker> What is it?
22:56:18 <thelsdj> a little desktop widget for sending messages about account activity to our users
22:56:50 <therethinker> Wow
22:57:27 <thelsdj> the development time was on-and-off so not like full 18 months worth, and theres lots of related server-side tech too
22:57:53 <therethinker> Yeah, seemed a bit long for 18 mo.
22:57:56 <thelsdj> coded in javascript thats portable to yahoo widgets and xulrunner
22:58:22 <thelsdj> we tried vista widgets too but those sucked
22:59:20 <thelsdj> only yahoo widgets release so far, the xulrunner needs maybe a full week of work to get up to snuff and thats not including trying to get things work that might always be a bit broken
22:59:25 <therethinker> Cool
23:13:07 <therethinker> What the hell!? Acid3's too easy!
23:13:40 <therethinker> Opera http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/2008/03/26/opera-and-the-acid3-test passed, and Safari's at 98%
23:15:53 <thelsdj> yea
23:15:56 <thelsdj> thats what i say, too easy
23:16:35 <thelsdj> i bet acid 4 will be out before IE passes acid 3
23:16:45 <therethinker> Well, for Opera. Gecko 1.8 was only at 52
23:16:46 <therethinker> Heh
23:17:02 <therethinker> I really hope it encorparates SVG
23:17:16 <thelsdj> acid 3 already does i think?
23:17:24 <therethinker> Does it?
23:17:28 <therethinker> I didn't think it did
23:17:46 <thelsdj> yes it does
23:17:50 <therethinker> Wow, gecko 1.8 still doesn't pass acid2...
23:17:56 <thelsdj> the last few tests that safari had to fix was related to svg animation
23:18:14 <therethinker> Ah
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23:18:35 <therethinker> So it incorperates SVG:Animate?
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23:19:20 <thelsdj> http://bugs.webkit.org/showdependencytree.cgi?id=17064
23:19:30 <thelsdj> that is all bugs needed to be fixed for acid3 on webkit
23:19:57 <thelsdj> 6 left
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23:23:38 <Monty> howdy, est
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23:26:31 <therethinker> Yeah, IE won't pass for quite a few months
23:29:02 <therethinker> .u ∇
23:29:02 <phenny> U+2207 NABLA (∇)
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23:43:35 <therethinker> Hmm
23:44:10 <therethinker> Wow
23:46:40 <therethinker> I didn't know bash was a language where... whatsitcalled...
23:46:40 <therethinker> a=1;b=a+1;print b:[2];a=2;print b:[3];
23:48:00 <RobotGuy> bash is a shell with its own language. It's capable of doing a LOT of things for scripts. I use bash scripts all the time.
23:48:27 <RobotGuy> GNU/bash I believe is what you want to look at.
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23:57:22 <therethinker> Yeah, I know that
23:57:26 <therethinker> I'm talking about the variables
23:57:44 <therethinker> How once you assign b to a, when a changes, b changes too
23:59:36 <therethinker> Wow, phenny's everywhere!
23:59:38 * nslater throws a plum at therethinker
23:59:39 <plum> did you change nicks? glad thats changed then, and what has changed a few things. hehe
23:59:47 <therethinker> ##physics has a phenny clone!
23:59:56 <nslater> phenny or a clone?
