2008-03-27 Swhack IRC Log

00:00:03 <therethinker> A clone!
00:00:07 <therethinker> named physbot
00:00:11 <nslater> cool
00:00:19 <therethinker> I was surprised
00:00:22 <nslater> well, she is the best IRC bot known to man, except for plum
00:00:23 <plum> so is hes new to this channel? probably best to presume the best. its the bestes.
00:00:29 <therethinker> but plum's a phenny!
00:00:30 <plum> hehe, if eric s raymond didnt we would have to write another bot that banned people for bad jokes?
00:00:37 <nslater> good plan!
00:00:42 <therethinker> :P
00:00:48 <therethinker> plum: esr
00:00:48 <plum> does couchdb have plans for real-time-ish ad-hoc queries, so they plan to we get about 4 randomers looking for cybersex per day, didnt i just hear you say you were planning on shaving your genitals this weekend?
00:00:58 <therethinker> O_O
00:01:02 <nslater> oh
00:01:03 <nslater> my
00:01:04 <nslater> god
00:01:11 <therethinker> No, no, I wasn't
00:01:22 <nslater> i removed the esr/bauer/scheier modules
00:01:26 <therethinker> Awww
00:01:28 <nslater> ... they got really boring
00:01:34 <therethinker> heh
00:01:41 <nslater> but now plum talks about shaving genitals, which is 10x better
00:01:42 <plum> thats what i came to it is just genitive with an apostrophe for reasons i couldnt fathom. not that theres valueble data in it heh, heh ive not been of much help so far ^_^.
00:02:04 <therethinker> That's actually fairly... logical
00:02:08 <therethinker> .wik Genitive
00:02:08 <nslater> yup
00:02:09 <phenny> "In grammar, the genitive case or possessive case (also called the second case) is the case that marks a noun as modifying another noun." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genitive
00:02:27 <therethinker> See! Apostrophe (can) = genitive!
00:02:46 <therethinker> Hmm
00:02:52 <nslater> what?
00:03:22 <therethinker> How would you say "the maker of the SUV's" , but using the possessive
00:03:30 <therethinker> "the SUV's's maker?"
00:03:41 <nslater> huuh, no
00:03:49 <nslater> the SUVs' maker
00:04:12 <nslater> plural and posessive
00:04:15 <nslater> not double possesive
00:04:26 <therethinker> No, but isn't SUV's plural SUV?
00:04:32 <nslater> no
00:04:37 <therethinker> Or is SUV one of those abbreivations that doesn't get the ' treament
00:04:38 <nslater> plural SUV is SUVs
00:04:42 <therethinker> I know *some* do
00:04:42 <nslater> no of them do
00:04:45 <nslater> such as?
00:04:56 <therethinker> Maybe if it ends in a vowel...
00:04:59 <therethinker> (the abbr.)
00:05:02 <nslater> ... such as?
00:06:08 <therethinker> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_plural#Plurals_of_symbols_and_initialisms
00:06:43 <therethinker> Ah, I take the ' approach
00:06:58 <nslater> so you only use it if it ends in a full stop, lower case letter or s
00:07:04 <nslater> so for SUV you would not use it
00:07:13 <therethinker> Well, S.U.V.'s
00:07:21 <nslater> or SUVs, both being correct
00:07:25 <therethinker> yup
00:07:35 * nslater throws some more plums at therethinker
00:07:36 <plum> the action lightly.
00:07:40 <therethinker> Or if the word should be in quotes
00:07:42 <nslater> pah
00:08:06 <therethinker> Like... I love when you use at's!
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01:02:55 <d8uv> .
01:03:57 <therethinker> d8uv! Join #gnu
01:04:00 <therethinker> you're not allowed :P
01:05:02 <d8uv> haha
01:05:13 <d8uv> what'd I do to piss #gnu off?
01:07:02 <therethinker> nslater's sister
01:07:35 <nslater> d8uv: what?
01:07:42 <nslater> oh.
01:07:43 <nslater> right.
01:07:45 <nslater> yeah.
01:08:42 <d8uv> i am not nslater's sister
01:09:18 <d8uv> sorry if that is a dissappointment
01:09:28 <therethinker> well, she got mibbit banned
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02:12:24 <nwalsh> So. Apache rewrite rules
02:13:11 <nwalsh> I've got, for example, "RewriteRule ^foo/comments.atom" /other/unrelated/path"
02:13:19 <nwalsh> In /2008/xx/yy
02:13:27 <nwalsh> Seems like I ought to be able to have
02:13:52 <nwalsh> "RewriteRule "(.*)/comments.atom" /other/unrelated/$1"
02:13:55 <nwalsh> in /.htaccess instead
02:14:08 <nwalsh> But I've never succeded
02:14:19 <nwalsh> Doesn't work or /me FAIL?
02:17:04 * nwalsh concludes that 10:20p is a bad time to ask Q on IRC
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02:18:08 <deltab> I don't see why it wouldnn't work
02:18:32 <deltab> have you tried #apache ?
02:19:28 <deltab> you could instead have it call an external program to do the routing
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02:24:04 <nwalsh> Bah, it doesn't work because you can't do that in .htaccess
02:24:10 <nwalsh> and that's all I have on dreamhost
02:24:11 * nwalsh loses
02:24:39 <nwalsh> but, on the plus side, documentation FTW!
02:24:39 <clsn> They probably have to allow you the override perms.
02:24:51 <clsn> oh you can't do it in .htaccess at all? nm.
02:27:38 <Tene> .g eat your own hands
02:27:39 <phenny> Tene: http://www.ehow.com/how_2195517_eat-own-hand-ease.html
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03:04:41 <shminux> why do I sometimes get "KeyError: 'results' (file "/home/bot/phenny/modules/search.py", line 33, in result)" in response to the google or wikipedia query?
03:04:55 <shminux> .wik air bubble
03:04:57 <phenny> "Air entrainment is the intentional creation of tiny air bubbles in concrete." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_entrainment
03:05:00 <shminux> bah
03:05:11 <shminux> my copy doesn't work
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03:19:39 * Arnia boings
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04:10:18 <aspect> .g e-plain
04:10:22 <phenny> aspect: http://www.tug.org/eplain/
04:10:32 <aspect> .title
04:10:33 <phenny> aspect: English plural - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
04:10:44 <aspect> really
04:12:57 <Arnia> heh
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09:20:35 <cre8radix> ahoi
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09:21:57 <sbp> cold snap's over; what a beautiful spring day!
09:21:57 <phenny> sbp: 26 Mar 22:53Z <_bjoern> tell sbp WE BEATZ ICELAND 4 ONZE http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article3617160.ece
09:23:11 <sbp> bwahaha, wow. we both did
09:23:44 <sbp> phenny: tell _bjoern not to dampen our joy but... I suspect this is a sign that the list is wrong!
09:23:45 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when _bjoern is around.
09:27:43 <nsh> 20cm of snow here yesterday
09:27:59 <sbp> what's it like today?
09:28:11 <nsh> white
09:28:15 <nsh> not snowing though
09:28:21 <nsh> ok, maybe a little
09:28:26 * sbp re-reads Ditching the Semantic Web? - it's actually very reasonable! not embarrassed by it as much as I feared I might be... very reasonable indeed, I think
09:28:38 <sbp> so your spring starts in August?
09:29:26 <sbp> wow, I just got great spam
09:29:33 <sbp> Subject: WANG MASUK SECARA AUTOMATIK
09:29:39 <sbp> excerpt from the body:
09:29:46 <sbp> " Suri rumah yang menjaga anak di rumah?
09:29:46 <sbp> " Tidak mempunyai pekerjaan?
09:29:46 <sbp> " Seorang yang tiada kenaikan gaji?
09:30:34 <sbp> ...
09:30:35 <sbp> wow
09:30:44 <sbp> and I just got the strangest non-spam email I've ever received
09:30:54 <sbp> someone's offering to send me a free meteorite, from Africa
09:30:56 <sbp> and it's HUGE
09:31:24 <sbp> he seems to be under the impression that I run a meteorite research laboratory
09:31:46 <sbp> he says he's been reading my website; I do have several meteorite pages on there, including my chassignite plea...
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09:41:22 <sbp> [[[
09:41:23 <sbp> A BBC crew filmed the tusked beasts spraying themselves with water that they had stored in a reservoir in their throats several hours earlier.
09:41:23 <sbp> Although this skill for storing water was first documented 100 years ago, the team believes this is the first time it has been filmed.
09:41:29 <sbp> ]]] - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7312442.stm
09:41:47 <sbp> .title http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/wiltshire/7316061.stm
09:41:48 <phenny> sbp: BBC NEWS | England | Wiltshire | Newts stop flood ditch clearance
09:42:17 <sbp> .title http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/tayside_and_central/7314643.stm
09:42:18 <phenny> sbp: BBC NEWS | Scotland | Tayside and Central | Fine for back-to-front thong man
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10:00:17 <cre8radix> re
10:07:36 <nsh> get meteorite, sbp!
10:07:41 <nsh> nsh wants
10:07:49 <nsh> he told me tell you
10:08:35 <sbp> nu?
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10:09:49 <nsh> ym
10:10:03 <nsh> meeeee-teorite
10:10:23 <nsh> owning meteorite is like owning moon, only moar different
10:10:44 <sbp> nsh: actually it can be the same. I have a lunar meteorite
10:10:52 <nsh> gimmegimmegimme
10:10:54 <sbp> hehe
10:10:58 <sbp> mooooon wanter
10:11:09 <nsh> mooooon hoarder!
10:11:12 <sbp> ehheh
10:11:23 <sbp> all your moon can haz sbp monopoly
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10:30:32 <_bjoern> sbp
10:30:32 <phenny> _bjoern: 09:29Z <sbp> tell _bjoern not to dampen our joy but... I suspect this is a sign that the list is wrong!
10:30:49 <_bjoern> possibly...
10:31:32 <sbp> [[[
10:31:32 <sbp> I have had a good deal to do with Jews, although I never borrowed any money of them. The other day I was what you call floored by a Jew. He passed me several times, crying for old clothes in the most nasal and extraordinary tone I ever heard.
10:31:32 <sbp> At last, I was so provoked that I said to him: “Pray, why can't you say ‘old clothes’ in a plain way as I do now?” The Jew stopped, and looking very gravely at me, replied, in a clear and even fine accent: “Sir, I can say ‘old clothes’ as well as you can; but if you had to say so ten times a minute, for an hour together, you would say ‘ogh do’, as I do now;” and so he marched off.
10:31:34 <sbp> I was so confounded with the justice of his retort, that I followed and gave him a shilling, the only one I had.
10:31:43 <sbp> ]]] - Coleridge, reprinted in John Timbs's "Anecdotes"
10:32:56 <sbp> (1s then is about £2.60 now, based on purchasing power)
10:41:07 <nsh> awesome
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11:26:43 <sbp> .u right arr
11:26:44 <phenny> U+2192 RIGHTWARDS ARROW (→)
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11:38:39 <lisppaste2> Arnia pasted "nslater: a nice essay on equality" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/58094
11:38:45 <sbp> .u o with macron
11:38:45 <phenny> U+014D LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH MACRON (ō)
11:39:06 <sbp> .u i with macron
11:39:06 <phenny> U+012B LATIN SMALL LETTER I WITH MACRON (ī)
11:39:24 <sbp> .u e with caron
11:39:25 <phenny> U+011B LATIN SMALL LETTER E WITH CARON (ě)
11:39:53 <sbp> .u o with caron
11:39:53 <phenny> U+01D2 LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH CARON (ǒ)
11:40:20 <lisppaste2> Arnia annotated #58094 with "Oh, I'm watching the logs too" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/58094#1
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11:44:06 <sbp> ah! I get it now!
11:44:13 * sbp waves to Arnia!
11:44:24 <sbp> poor Arnia
11:44:46 <sbp> lisppaste as much as you want dude...
11:44:57 <sbp> hmm, perhaps I should set up an easier thing for him
11:45:46 * sbp attempts
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11:55:41 <lisppaste2> Arnia annotated #58094 with "This has to be the most awkward way I've ever used IRC" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/58094#2
11:59:39 <sbp> yeah. working on a Thing though
12:04:03 <lisppaste2> Arnia annotated #58094 with "Ah, I like Things. Getting a bit claustrophobic in the office, might leave and work at the B&B" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/58094#3
12:04:23 * nslater waves to Arnia
12:04:33 <sbp> Arnia: almost done
12:04:52 <nslater> Arnia: thanks for the link... :p
12:06:09 <nslater> Arnia: ... now, it would be patronising for me to assume that you hadn't already explored this option, but how come you can't use a web based IRC client?
12:06:19 <sbp> they monitor them and block them
12:06:24 <nslater> ouch
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12:10:57 <phenny> <Arnia> .
12:11:01 <sbp> whoo
12:11:19 <nslater> hmm?
12:11:36 <sbp> Arnia: see email
12:11:51 <sbp> I made a little interface so that he can "paste things" more easily
12:12:01 <nslater> .. figured, nice work ;)
12:12:01 <phenny> <Arnia> <sbp> like this
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12:13:22 <phenny> <Arnia> Let's try this
12:13:26 <nslater> .wik Ramanujuan
12:13:28 <phenny> Can't find anything in Wikipedia for "Ramanujuan".
12:13:29 <sbp> sweet
12:14:00 <phenny> <Arnia> Ahaha! Although you need to fix the HTML ("submit)
12:14:05 <phenny> <Arnia> Thanks!
12:14:08 * sbp makes the input box larger and fixes the HTML...
12:14:12 <sbp> you're welcome!
12:14:27 * nslater wonders why Wikipedia doesn't have an article on Ramanujuan
12:14:31 *** kpreid has quit ()
12:14:37 <sbp> helps if you spell it right
12:14:41 <sbp> .wik Ramanujan
12:14:42 <phenny> "Srinivāsa Rāmānujan Iyengar FRS (Tamil: ஸ்ரீநிவாச ராமானுஜன்) (22 December 1887 – 26 April 1920) was an Indian mathematician and one of the greatest mathematical geniuses of the 20th century.[1]| With almost no formal training in [...]" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramanujan
12:14:55 <nslater> sbp: I have taken the spelling directly from the PDF that Arnia gave me
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12:15:03 <sbp> there we go, form fixed
12:15:33 * sbp adds a bit of margin
12:15:47 <phenny> <Arnia> Wooo... right, now to lunch. I've had much thought this morning I'll explain later, away from the office.
12:15:53 <sbp> now, step two is to make it tail today's logs and put it underneath the input...
12:15:59 <sbp> okey dokey. c'ya!
12:17:37 <sbp> actually, that will probably make it too obvious that it's IRC
12:17:40 <sbp> need to disguise it somehow
12:22:45 * sbp makes it optional, at least
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12:35:06 <_bjoern> apparently the safari for windows license prohibits installations on windows...
12:35:17 * nslater chuckles
12:36:56 <nslater> phenny: fr " (1984)"?
12:36:56 <nslater> advertisement
12:36:57 <phenny> nslater: "(1984)" (fr)
12:37:00 <nslater> fail
12:37:14 <nslater> phenny: fr "Un amour de Swann"?
12:37:14 <phenny> nslater: "A love of Swann" (fr)
12:37:35 <clsn> sbp: so I redid the lexer in some bizarre way the PLY docs suggest, in a branch of the svn, to the extent that "or on a bend sable three trefoils slipped argent" works without parens (and without hardcoding it into the lexer). Still experimenting with that.
12:44:12 <clsn> OK, http://store.artlebedev.com/kitchen/atmark2/ is neat.
13:00:14 <kpreid> that handle looks good for not burning your fingers...
13:01:51 <nslater> phenny: ask Arnia why set theorists see the need to side step Russell's paradox by constructing metasystems or using fluffy terms such as class or repertoire when it is otherwise accepted that all formal systems are incomplete and contain areas of undecidability.
13:01:51 <phenny> nslater: I'll pass that on when Arnia is around.
13:03:50 <sbp> man, why do deliery men moan so much?
13:03:57 <sbp> it's not my fault they're delivery men
13:04:05 <nslater> they get paid extra for moaning, it's true
13:04:35 <sbp> couldn't find the house, thing was so heavy, long way to walk with it, blah blah
13:04:51 <sbp> you're a delivery man! it's your job to carry loads!
13:05:13 <nslater> phenny: tell Arnia that I'm half way through and so far it seems like Category theory is a form of meta set theory and I'm wondering why a theory of sets could not be used to describe another theory of sets without giving it a new name
13:05:13 <phenny> nslater: I'll pass that on when Arnia is around.
13:05:37 <sbp> atmark mug: heh
13:06:14 <nsh> definition-fetish, nslater
13:07:02 <nslater> perhaps it's a similar ailment to that described by sbp w/r to the semweb community ;)
13:07:20 <nsh> i expect it's much worse
13:07:24 <_bjoern> I wonder whether most of the category theory statements in swhack aren't actually markov chained.
13:07:39 <nslater> ... in reality, I presume that it is due to some massive misunderstanding on my part
13:08:02 * nsh dyuubs
13:08:21 <phenny> <Arnia> To the first question; because it isn't just a matter of incompleteness - it is a matter of paradox. From a contradiction in a consistent logic, one can derive anything so such contradictions are to be avoided at all costs
13:08:39 <_bjoern> sbp http://g.photos.cx/nestz6we4f23847234-c2.jpg
13:09:30 <sbp> _bjoern: woah!
13:09:30 <phenny> <Arnia> To the second question; category theory is more than a meta-set theory. It is an entirely different language, which is a generalisation of set theory. Set theory cannot (at least elegantly) model other toposes, for example.
13:09:39 <sbp> that is some serious piggybacking right there
13:10:10 <_bjoern> nude thai massage
13:10:11 <phenny> <Arnia> Category theory also starts from a very different place to set theory. It begins with the notion of transformations. Set theory (by its nature) begins with the notion of membership.
13:10:14 <sbp> hehe
13:10:33 <sbp> just in case you're wondering, that really is Arnia speaking
13:10:36 <sbp> it's not me impersonating him
13:10:42 * sbp off for a walk, back by 2pm!
13:11:00 <phenny> <Arnia> In category theory, membership in the category of sets is derived from other, more foundational notions. Note the number of axioms in ZFC set theory and those in category theory
13:11:31 <phenny> <Arnia> In fact, category theory can even do without the notion of objects, leaving only arrows as the sole element
13:12:43 <nslater> Okay, I think that's starting to make sense. I still don't see the problem with having paradoxical statements possible within a formal system, can one not simple say "some statements lead to paradox, be weary"
13:13:05 <nslater> hehe, not weary, you know what I meant ;)
13:15:27 <nslater> From my very limited understanding, Gödel's incompleteness theorem is a form of the liars paradox but translated into mathematical propositions, so in one form or another when we say that it is undecidable are we not just skimming over the fact that it is a paradox within the formal system?
13:16:43 <nslater> .. and hence, if this applies to all formal systems, is it not accepted that it is impossible to escape paradox within a formal system? This leads me back to the question about why set theorists try to side step the issue as if it was a problem.
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13:25:40 <clsn> Gödel's incompleteness theorem says that the formal system is either incomplete or inconsistent. Inconsistency is not to be tolerated, so we have to stay with incomplete. It doesn't mean that you can't get away from inconsistency.
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13:26:36 <nslater> yes, but it does that by constructing a paradox, which was my main point
13:27:10 <clsn> Is it really a paradox? depends on your definition I guess.
13:27:12 <nslater> also, I'm still trying to parse the double negative in your last sentence :p
13:27:20 <clsn> Heh.
13:27:45 <clsn> It does not mean that inconsistency is inevitable and hence acceptable. It means that avoiding inconsistency entails incompleteness.
13:27:47 <nslater> well, from how it has been explained to me, the incompleteness theorm is a mathematical version of "this sentence is a lie"
13:27:58 <nslater> which is the Liars paradox of course
13:28:04 <phenny> <Arnia> Inconsistency is bad. Incompleteness is only a disappointment, not a collapse of the whole system. Sacrifice completeness for consistency every time
13:28:08 <clsn> No... It's a mathematical version of "This sentence cannot be proven." Not quite the same thing.
13:28:42 <nslater> hmm, that would be the conclusion from "this sentence is false"
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13:29:10 <clsn> Liar's paradox is a statement that can be neither true nor false. Statement G is either true or false, and if it's false it implies inconsistency. So we figure it better be true.
13:29:27 <clsn> No... "cannot be proved" does not mean "false."
13:29:42 <clsn> It only means that if your system is complete.
13:29:51 <clsn> Which, the point is, it can't be.
13:30:13 <nslater> no no, what i mean is that "this statement is false" leads to the conclusion that the statement cannot have any truth value and hence cannot be proven, and hence the system is either incomplete or inconsistant
13:30:14 <phenny> <Arnia> Cannot be *proven* true or false. Proof theoretic and truth theoretic notions of semantics are different.
13:30:22 <nslater> which is how I always understood it to be
13:31:01 <nslater> ... which is still what I would consider to be a paradox in both english and whatever formal system you translate it into
13:31:17 <clsn> "this statement is false" is a statement which is neither true nor false, and everything comes down around your ears. "this statement cannot be proven" can be either true or false.
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13:32:37 <nslater> hmm, not that I distrust you (I am only going on what I read in Hofstadters GEB) but Arnia, which one of these more acurately describes the incompleteness theorem?
13:32:46 <phenny> <Arnia> wow... might actually be getting user stories. Data! From my funders! Wow
13:32:58 <clsn> I read GEB too. :) That's also his description if you read closely.
13:33:11 <clsn> Liar's paradox and Gödel's theorem are related, but they aren't the same thing.
13:33:12 <phenny> <Arnia> First time for everything I guess... and I just explained my new hierarchy of requirements to someone else
13:33:28 <nslater> but he starts of with the liars paradox and goes on to describe how Gödel "translated" it, at least to the best of my recolection
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13:33:59 <clsn> Which is an okay informal description of the proof. But isn't 100% correct in all particulars, as most simplifications aren't.
13:34:07 <phenny> <Arnia> nslater: clsn is correct I'm afraid. You're confusing proof and truth and consistency and completeness.
13:34:25 * clsn does the “Arnia likes me better” dance.
13:34:36 <nslater> nah, I understand the difference alright, my memory is failing me, is all
13:35:04 <clsn> Hofstadter does sorta conflate the two. You just have to keep it straight when he explains in better detail.
13:35:10 <phenny> <Arnia> Most of Godel's work was on proving his translation was faithful whilst separating consistency from completeness and proof from truth
13:36:15 <nslater> Arnia, what would it "mean" to accept a theory (such as set theory) where paradoxes (such as Russell's) were an understood, accepted but undefined area of the system?
13:36:26 <nslater> or rather, what would the consiquences be
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13:36:59 <nslater> I have never understood the "problem" with leaving it as an undefined area
13:37:48 <clsn> Monty, remind me in 5 minutes to check on the cupcakes.
13:37:48 <Monty> clsn: Okay, I'll remind you about that on Thu Mar 27 13:49:00 GMT 2008
13:37:54 <phenny> <Arnia> If you're working with FOPL or its cousins, you'd be able to prove everything.
13:38:18 <phenny> <Arnia> The logic would become utterly trivial, because everything is true.
13:38:29 <clsn> (being able to prove everything could be a handy skill for politicians.)
13:38:38 * nslater feels the conversation is getting dangerously close to mentioning Z
13:39:55 <nslater> ... all this talk of paradoxes (and I'm still only half way through that paper) reminds me, has anyone ever published a widely accepted refutation of Zeno's paradox?
13:41:15 <clsn> The usual answer is that SUM_0^\infty 1/2^i = 2.
13:42:02 <phenny> <Arnia> nslater: Work out the limit of it, and you can see that the limit is finite in a finite time (time steps shrink as space steps shrink)
13:42:22 <nslater> ... which reminds me of the wikipedia article on 0.999..
13:42:30 <nslater> .wik 0.999...
13:42:31 <phenny> "In mathematics, the recurring decimal 0.999… , which is also written as or , denotes a real number equal to 1." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/0.999...
13:42:47 <clsn> Sigh... yes, an argument generating considerably more heat than light.
13:42:49 <Monty> clsn: You asked me to remind you to check on the cupcakes.
13:42:58 <clsn> thanks, Monty.
13:42:59 <Monty> Mary-Clare Goller
13:43:07 * nslater throws a plum at Monty
13:43:07 <Monty> </dream-rant>
13:43:09 <plum> so i didnt take any further action, you missed all the hot cybersex action. lol
13:43:30 *** nshFORREALZ (i=nsh@eduroam-5.uta.fi) has joined #swhack
13:43:30 <Monty> But what does nshFORREALZ have to do with the price of fish?
13:43:34 *** nshFORREALZ is now known as nsh
13:43:40 <nslater> heh
13:45:12 <clsn> I used to teach my students a special class at the end of the week, something that had ZERO to do with anything they needed to learn, just to make their brains hurt for the weekend. The classic one is exploration of transfinites.
13:45:47 <phenny> <Arnia> The 0.9999.. thing is a cannard. It is an artefact of one way of defining equality on decimals.There are other ways
13:45:52 <nslater> what subject do you teach? I wish I had had teachers like that
13:46:23 <nsh> clsn, what kinda explorations?
13:46:25 <nslater> what do you mean by cannard? it's a type of duck?
13:46:45 <nslater> Arnia, yes, I am starting to see that now, this paper is very interesting
13:46:48 <clsn> I taught computer programming.
13:46:50 <_bjoern> .wik cannard
13:46:55 <clsn> .wik canard
13:46:56 <phenny> "Canard is French for duck, and is often used in English to refer to a deliberately false story, originating from an abbreviated form of an old French idiom, 'vendre un canard à moitié,' meaning 'to half-sell a duck.' In French it can also mean a journal." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canard
13:47:01 <phenny> "Ferréol Cannard (born May 28, 1978 in Morez) is a French biathlete." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferr%C3%A9ol_Cannard
13:47:07 <nslater> Arnia, though curse you for giving me a paper that's making me google so many things just to keep up with the concepts it's exploring ;)
13:47:14 <nslater> aha
13:47:40 <sbp> .gc micropermeate
13:47:41 <phenny> micropermeate: 0
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13:47:53 <clsn> Stuff you guys mostly know, I'm sure... definitions of set cardinality equivalence, aleph_0, the fact that C>א_0, etc.
13:48:13 * nsh smiles
13:48:20 <nsh> repetition isn't exploration :-)
13:48:29 <clsn> Repetition for you. exploration for them.
13:48:32 <nsh> it's more of a tour
13:48:45 <nsh> exploring is where you end up somewhere you didn't know you were going to end up
13:48:50 <clsn> "If it's news to you it's news to us."
13:49:01 <clsn> THEY sure didn't know where they were going to end up/.
13:49:17 <nslater> nsh: it's exploration if you let them figure out the conclusions
13:49:23 * nsh nods
13:49:47 <clsn> "But infinity can't be BIGGER than infinity, that's impossible!" "It's worse than impossible—it's true!"
13:49:58 <clsn> I always liked that answer of mine. :)
13:50:02 * nsh smiles
13:50:14 <clsn> or maybe it was "it's worse than possible." whichever.
13:50:25 <nslater> my old maths teacher use to teach us memory techniques, which was fairly interesting, and totally unrelated to mathematics
13:50:54 <nslater> .. he once got the entire class to remember 100 unrelated objects in perfect sequence over a 2 week holiday period
13:51:10 <clsn> I did a talk on dimensions >3... Derivation of the alphabet... whatever fun stuff...
13:51:19 <clsn> That's pretty cool.
13:51:34 <nslater> yeah, we all had total recal when we came back, not one single mistake
13:52:42 <nslater> he also ran the chess club, this guy used to sit in the corner of the room, blindfolded, and play chess with you by speaking out the moves
13:52:45 <sbp> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Wadi_el-Hol_inscriptions_drawing.jpg
13:52:51 <nslater> ... I never saw one person beat him
13:52:58 <sbp> from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Bronze_Age_alphabets
13:53:06 <sbp> via http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genealogy_of_scripts_derived_from_Proto-Sinaitic
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13:54:12 <clsn> sbp: yeah, I've made something of a study of the history of writing...
13:54:20 <sbp> ‘Frank M. Cross of Harvard University believes the inscriptions are "clearly the oldest of alphabetic writing", and are similar enough to later Semitic writing to conclude that "this belongs to a single evolution of the alphabet."’
13:54:23 <sbp> mmm... history
13:54:33 <phenny> <Arnia> In the surreals you can have infinity + 1 or the square root of an infintesimal (sqrt fuck_all)
13:55:14 <clsn> Yeah, I read Knuth's "surreal numbers"
13:55:21 <clsn> (his book, Conway's numbers)_
13:55:35 <clsn> They get pretty bizarre.
13:55:48 <sbp> what's great is that it makes the alphabet we're using right now have an unbroken origin all the way up through the earliest Egyptian scripts
13:56:16 * sbp -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_hieroglyphs#History_and_evolution
13:56:34 <nslater> omg omg, too much reading material...
13:56:37 * nslater segfaults
13:56:55 <_bjoern> My handwriting looks a lot like Middle Bronze Age alphabets
13:57:46 <nsh> .g transfinite interpenetration
13:57:52 <phenny> nsh: http://www.geocities.com/moonhoabinh/ithapapers/generalpr.html
13:57:59 <nsh> interesting
13:58:19 <nslater> sbp: how was your walk?
13:58:32 <_bjoern> stork-free
13:58:58 <clsn> transfinite interpenetration sounds like some kind of math-geek porn...
13:59:10 <sbp> nslater: great, thanks! except for the lack of storks. much wildlife on the way, and lots of ideas and metatropes and observations and so on
13:59:54 <nslater> sbp: sounds metatropictastical :p
14:00:02 * nslater fancies a walk to, is very drowsy
14:00:42 <clsn> When I saw early Nabatean in Naveh's book, and it's the direct ancestor of classical Arabic, I thought it basically looked like square Hebrew with a funny handwriting. It was quite legible.
14:00:47 <sbp> the first days of meteorological spring are always good for walks
14:00:58 * sbp transfinitely interprets _bjoern's handwriting
14:01:04 * sbp is eating foods
14:01:18 <clsn> The cupcakes seem to have come out well.
14:01:19 * nslater throws sbp a plum
14:01:20 <plum> haha, hey sbp. evening sbp, sbp vs spb.
14:01:23 * _bjoern smacks sbp with a stork
14:01:39 <sbp> oof
14:01:41 <nsh> .gs transfinite *
14:01:42 <phenny> transfinite *: induction (8), numbers (6), interpolation (5), induktion (4), recursion (3), number (3), kardinalzahl (3), cardinals (3), zrola zues jack0 (2)
14:01:51 <clsn> .g do cu vanci le ba panje xusra
14:01:52 <phenny> clsn: http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=lojban+rock+lyrics&bl
14:02:09 <_bjoern> Great headline yesterday http://thinkprogress.org/2008/03/26/mccains-secret-weapon-maps-by-karl-rove-co/
14:02:10 <_bjoern> .title
14:02:11 <phenny> _bjoern: Think Progress » Blog Archive » McCain’s secret weapon: maps by ‘Karl Rove & Co.’
14:02:28 <_bjoern> I knew she'd become political adviser
14:02:38 <clsn> Is it a secret weapon of mass destruction???
14:04:04 <nsh> McCain's make micro-chips
14:04:06 <nsh> not presidents
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14:42:47 <nslater> .swhack sneaky arnia
14:43:12 <phenny> nslater: http://swhack.com/logs/2008-03-01#T20-54-37
14:44:02 * nslater chuckles
15:05:13 <xover> _bjoern has handwriting? I never knew.
15:05:13 <phenny> xover: 26 Mar 18:45Z <nwalsh> tell xover "no, I just had to reduce distractions to get some work done. it was just humor. bad humor, perhaps"
15:06:25 <xover> sbp: What in the world are you ordering that makes the delivery men sulk so? Gamergrrls-in-a-box?
15:20:21 * sbp reads an interesting email he just received
15:20:26 <sbp> xover: foods!
15:20:53 <xover> Stockpiling to Prepare for The Coming Apocalypse?
15:22:30 <sbp> well
15:22:45 <sbp> ten million American fundies can't be wrong!
15:24:02 <xover> I tend to think that while the fundies keep predicting the Apocalypse, we'll be protected by a Field of Improbability from any stray asteroids or cosmic events.
15:24:26 <xover> It's when they start claiming everything is hunky-dory that we need to start worrying.
15:24:28 <sbp> ehheh
15:24:42 <sbp> wait, no, don't run too far with this
15:24:50 <sbp> because otherwise they can rightly claim they're saving the planet
15:34:50 <nslater> Stupid Filter (Statistical software for filtering stupidity): http://stupidfilter.org/main/index.php?n=Main.Status
15:36:13 <nslater> hehe, I just put some of xovers comments through the filter:
15:36:19 <nslater> [[[
15:36:20 <nslater> Text is not likely to be stupid.
15:36:21 <nslater> CLASSIFY succeeds; success probability: 0.7054 pR: 0.3792
15:36:22 <nslater> ]]]
15:36:41 * nslater puts some of my own words through w/r set theory
15:36:51 <xover> I've comitted Comments?
15:37:40 <nslater> no no, I justed pasted some of your words from the channel
15:38:08 <nslater> .. I'm now running it on my contribution to the discussion about set theory from earlier
15:40:47 <nslater> .wik CRM114
15:40:53 <phenny> "The C.R.M. 114 Discriminator is a fictional piece of critical radio equipment in Stanley Kubrick's film Dr. Strangelove (1964), the destruction of which prevents the crew of a B-52 from hearing the recall code that would stop them from dropping their atomic bombs on [...]" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRM114
15:41:01 <nslater> .wik CRM114 software
15:41:03 <phenny> "CRM114 (full name: 'The CRM114 Discriminator') is a program based upon a statistical approach for classifying data, and especially used for filtering email spam." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRM114_(program)
15:42:32 <nslater> [[[
15:42:33 <nslater> Text is not likely to be stupid.
15:42:33 <nslater> CLASSIFY succeeds; success probability: 0.7605 pR: 0.5019
15:42:35 <nslater> ]]]
15:42:36 <nslater> yay
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15:50:47 <xover> Fails pretty hard then, if text from IRC is classified as “Not likely to be stupid.”
16:01:30 *** KiYanWang has quit ()
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16:11:53 * Arnia boings slightly
16:11:53 <phenny> Arnia: 13:08Z <nslater> ask Arnia why set theorists see the need to side step Russell's paradox by constructing metasystems or using fluffy terms such as class or repertoire when it is otherwise accepted that all formal systems are incomplete and contain areas of undecidability.
16:11:57 <phenny> Arnia: 13:11Z <nslater> tell Arnia that I'm half way through and so far it seems like Category theory is a form of meta set theory and I'm wondering why a theory of sets could not be used to describe another theory of sets without giving it a new name
16:21:12 <_bjoern> hmm pix http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/2007/0416.html
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16:42:02 <cre8radix> re:hi
16:42:58 *** nslater (n=nslater@bytesexual.org) has joined #swhack
16:43:10 <Arnia> nslater: boing
16:43:45 <nslater> lo Arnia, thanks for that article, I have to admit, towards the last quarter I got terribly lost and gave up
16:43:53 <Arnia> bah
16:44:02 <Arnia> You also missed something
16:44:07 <nslater> ... the general concepts it was explaining, though I don't perhaps grasp them completely, were quite enlightening
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16:54:53 <xover> _bjoern: That's… quite a scary article.
17:00:00 <_bjoern> But cute pix!
17:01:31 <sbp> ooh, cute pix indeed
17:04:12 <sbp> ‘Adam Hamilton did an excellent job deflating the Dow in is essay aptly titled "Deflating the Dow", written in 2001.’
17:07:52 *** nshFORREALZ (i=nsh@eduroam-5.uta.fi) has joined #swhack
17:09:03 *** nsh has quit (Nick collision from services.)
17:09:08 *** nshFORREALZ is now known as nsh
17:10:51 <sbp> wow, Ipsos MORI just rang me up
17:10:56 <sbp> that's a first, I think
17:11:00 * nsh smiles
17:15:53 <nsh> .wik negentropy
17:15:56 <phenny> "Negative entropy or negentropy or syntropy of a living system is the entropy that it exports to maintain its own entropy low (see entropy and life)." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negentropy
17:15:59 <nsh> with #physics newbs
17:16:59 <sbp> didn't The Earl write a good thing on negentropy?
17:17:11 <nslater> this negentropy is an interesting concept
17:17:49 <sbp> nope, bum. must have been thinking of Schrödinger
17:18:06 <sbp> we totally need to start calling Bertrand Russell The Earl though
17:18:21 <sbp> at the very least to offset Webber
17:18:50 <sbp> actually, forget the whole thing
17:18:53 <sbp> flawed premise
17:19:32 <nsh> .gs flawed *
17:19:32 <phenny> flawed *: design (8), huorn (7), methodology (5), genius (4), emmy (4), democracy (4), science (3), lyrics (3), warg (2), spokesmen (2), says (2), satellite (2)
17:19:45 <nsh> .gs * warg
17:19:46 <phenny> * warg: kajsa (4), tag (2), sharku with (2), fredrik (2), a (2)
17:19:54 <nsh> fredrik the flawed warg
17:19:56 <nsh> hmm
17:19:59 <sbp> SHARKU WITH WARG
17:20:14 <nsh> i think this technique could be extended into a complete story producing machine
17:20:18 * Arnia hums
17:20:22 <sbp> all your huorn are belong to flawn
17:20:36 <sbp> .ety flaw
17:20:36 <phenny> "c.1325, 'snowflake, spark of fire,' from O.N. flaga 'stone slab, flake' (see flagstone); sense of 'defect, fault' first recorded 1586, first of character, later (1604) of material things; probably via notion of a 'fragment' broken off." - http://etymonline.com/?term=flaw
17:20:42 * nsh blinks
17:20:46 <sbp> ...awesome
17:21:04 <nsh> yah
17:21:04 <nsh> mustardiously
17:21:09 <sbp> .ety flagstone
17:21:09 <phenny> "1730, from flag 'flat, split stone' (1604), earlier 'piece cut from sod' (1415), from O.N. flaga 'stone slab,' of unknown origin, perhaps related to O.N. flak (see flake)." - http://etymonline.com/?term=flagstone
17:21:12 <nsh> brings new meaning to "precious little snowflake"
17:21:19 <nsh> you're a piece cut from sod.
17:21:25 <sbp> .gc snowflaw
17:21:34 <sbp> .ety flurry
17:21:41 <sbp> OH MAN WORDS ARE SO GOOD
17:22:06 <phenny> "'snow squall' 1828, Amer.Eng., probably from 17c. flurr 'to scatter, fly with a whirring noise,' perhaps from M.E. flouren 'to sprinkle, as with flour.' Sense of 'commotion' first recorded 1710." - http://etymonline.com/?term=flurry
17:22:07 <phenny> snowflaw: 14
17:22:17 <sbp> three best human inventions, in order:
17:22:18 <sbp> 1) Words
17:22:18 <sbp> 2) Caitlin Moran
17:22:18 <sbp> 3) The wheel
17:24:48 <nsh> .wik Caitlin Moran
17:24:49 <phenny> "Caitlin Moran (b. 5 April 1975 Catherine Elizabeth Moran in Brighton) is a British broadcaster and columnist for The Times." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caitlin_Moran
17:25:06 * Arnia watches the series four trailer again
17:25:14 <nsh> this article useless without pics
17:26:40 <sbp> nsh: “If each of us have one object, and we exchange them, then each of us still has one object. If each of us have one idea, and we exchange them, then each of us now has two ideas.” — George Bernard Shaw
17:27:31 <nsh> .wik George Bernard Shaw
17:27:31 <phenny> "George Bernard Shaw (26 July 1856—2 November 1950) was a world-famous Irish playwright." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Bernard_Shaw
17:27:46 <nsh> .wik Thomas Jefferson
17:27:47 <phenny> "Thomas Jefferson (April 13, 1743 – July 4, 1826)[1]| was the third President of the United States (1801–1809), the principal author of the Declaration of Independence (1776), and one of the most influential Founding Fathers for his promotion of the ideals of [...]" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Jefferson
17:27:52 <nsh> ^ said it betterly
17:28:28 <nsh> .g jefferson light taper idea nature
17:28:29 <phenny> nsh: http://www.movingtofreedom.org/2006/10/06/thomas-jefferson-on-patents-and-freedom-of-ideas/
17:29:13 <nsh> [[[
17:29:55 <nsh> If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to himself;
17:29:55 <nsh> but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it. Its peculiar character, too, is that no one possesses the less, because every other possesses the whole of it.
17:29:55 <nsh> He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.
17:29:56 <nsh> -
17:29:58 <nsh> That ideas should freely spread from one to another over the globe, for the moral and mutual instruction of man, and improvement of his condition, seems to have been peculiarly and benevolently designed by nature, when she made them, like fire, expansible over all space, without lessening their density in any point, and like the air in which we breathe, move, and have our physical being, incapable of confinement or exclusive appropriation.
17:30:03 <nsh> Inventions then cannot, in nature, be a subject of property.
17:30:05 <nsh> ]]]
17:30:07 <nsh> -ibidyflakes
17:30:42 <sbp> what
17:30:46 <sbp> cool
17:32:42 * nsh thinks american childrens should be forced to memorise complete works of jefferson
17:32:54 <nsh> just for the pedagogical benefit
17:32:55 <bancus> http://i28.tinypic.com/111rsyr.png
17:36:51 <sbp> clearly 'shopped
17:37:14 <nsh> idea
17:37:16 <bancus> Yes, I managed to shop it between Hitting Cmd-Shift-4 and uploading that file to tinypic.
17:37:26 <twe> Is that a lot. I'm not hitting every single package on the i.
17:37:28 <nsh> i'm going to get an accetate with just an arrow and the caption "Clearly 'shopped"
17:37:31 <nsh> and just hold it up to stuff
17:37:34 <nsh> to confuse people
17:37:48 <bancus> I can tell from some of the pixels and from seeing quite a few shops in my day.
17:37:52 <nsh> twe, you hittin' on avrytin'
17:38:06 <nsh> .gs hitting on *
17:38:07 <phenny> hitting on *: her (5), me0o (3), ianto (3), hannah (3), girl (3), all (3), tossgirl (2), sc6152e (2), receptionist (2), oops (2), lagers (2), jf's (2), girls (2)
17:38:09 <bancus> Monty, are you shopped?
17:38:11 <Monty> GReaper: restaurants
17:38:12 <twe> nsh: What you hittin poor f5? What he ever do anything on someone or some such achievement or go on bird watching trips in boats that leave me with the other things.
17:38:21 <bancus> f5f5f5f5f5f5, twe?
17:38:22 <sbp> hitting on tossgirl?
17:38:25 <jsled> Man. I guess it's about the last day to register a domain for an april fool's joke and have it propgate before 4/1.
17:38:31 <sbp> jsled: yes
17:38:35 <nsh> tossgirl does not sound like a classy chick
17:38:37 <jsled> I wonder if I can scare up some graphic design talent to do something...
17:38:37 <twe> Maybe i pushed them off in 2 gulps, and it has been removed by the editor that html5 is the twe out of me, twe.
17:38:44 <sbp> .g tossgirl
17:38:44 <jsled> WHO"S READY!?
17:38:50 <phenny> sbp: http://www.mymym.com/article/83.html
17:38:50 <bancus> So why is it that twe says "twe" so much?
17:38:56 <nsh> IZ ALWEYS REDDY!
17:38:57 <bancus> Heh.
17:38:58 <sbp> I'm ready for you to do work so that I get increased luls
17:39:02 <twe> I asked in confusion, but how could give twe at least that much.
17:39:03 <bancus> I once wrote an IRC bot called mumym.
17:39:08 <nsh> bancus, because he doesn't disregard it from his tokens
17:39:13 <nsh> and it's in everything he replies to
17:39:17 <bancus> Ah.
17:39:21 <sbp> “One of the most famous female progamers in the world, known to many as ToSsGirL or medic. She is the undefeated champion of female starcraft and now trying to work her way up in the male starcraft tournaments, playing for the korean progaming team STX SouL.”
17:39:26 <bancus> And Monty does disregard?
17:39:27 <Monty> Does talking about this bother you ?
17:39:33 <nsh> Monty is just more scatty, methinks
17:39:33 <bancus> Monty, disregard monty, he sucks cocks.
17:39:35 <Monty> jsled: Yeah, mang
17:39:37 <Monty> 20cm of me, the battery in a lot. I'm aware
17:39:45 <nsh> lawl
17:39:51 <sbp> .c 20cm in inches
17:39:52 <phenny> 20 centimeters = 7.87401575 inches
17:39:55 *** chris2 (n=chris@p54A2E60F.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #swhack
17:40:10 <Arnia> A well hung bot
17:40:12 <bancus> Nice, Monty. I bet you're a hit with the ladies.
17:40:15 <Monty> Mind you, baby? (at pythonce.sourceforge.net)
17:40:15 <bancus> Well, until the battery starts.
17:40:16 <nsh> mekano-pip, are you a hungbot too?
17:40:18 <mekano-pip> nsh: IF HUNGBOT T, THEN WE HAVE SOMETHINS IN COMMON, EH. AM I HUNGBOT? I DONT KNOW. KTHX.
17:40:27 <nsh> truedat
17:40:43 <sbp> mekano-pip is generally inarguablewith
17:40:44 <mekano-pip> sbp: I THINK SO, BUT IM NOT SHUR. ASK MONTY IF IT AR.
17:40:45 <Monty> owning moon, only half ago)
17:40:55 <nsh> NO OWNING MOON, Monty
17:40:58 <Monty> gmails supports the need an interesting proposal
17:40:59 <nsh> IS FOR HUMANS (nsh)
17:41:06 <nsh> Monty, a modest one?
17:41:08 <Monty> quickest frantic Pimento :P
17:41:11 <sbp> moon == humans's
17:41:13 <sbp> human == nsh
17:41:18 <sbp> that's logic!
17:41:26 <nsh> sbp == right-town in friday
17:41:45 <sbp> whooberries
17:41:57 <_bjoern> remind me in 40 minutes SBP DAY/NIGHT SWITCH
17:41:58 <nsh> and dangsaloons
17:42:03 <_bjoern> remind me in 40 minutes to SBP DAY/NIGHT SWITCH
17:42:04 <Monty> _bjoern: Okay, I'll remind you about that on Thu Mar 27 18:28:24 GMT 2008
17:42:09 <sbp> ooh yes
17:42:12 <_bjoern> I always forget the to
17:42:15 <sbp> yeah
17:42:33 <sbp> nsh: my favourite suffix at the moment? -iad
17:42:33 <nslater> bia's clock is still wrong btw ;)
17:42:38 <sbp> try it. you might like it
17:42:39 <sbp> nslater: manxome
17:42:57 <nslater> was that an insult or a server name :p
17:43:03 <sbp> server name. and insult
17:43:09 <nslater> hehe, okai
17:43:26 <sbp> it's been wrong for many months now
17:43:42 <_bjoern> I wonder when someone will beat the nude thai massage pix
17:43:48 <nslater> wat
17:43:53 <sbp> possibly never
17:44:03 <sbp> wonder if they'll feature it on the blog?
17:44:04 <nslater> oh, you're talking storks, *yawn*
17:44:05 <sbp> you should email them
17:44:31 <_bjoern> That was my thought aswell
17:44:31 * nslater ducks, covers
17:44:35 <Arnia> Storks are GOOD
17:44:47 * Arnia deletes nslater for bad STORKAGE
17:45:12 <_bjoern> Right now they are breaking the 4th wall
17:45:35 <sbp> choxelles, yes
17:45:55 <sbp> lights are on on the restaurant
17:45:57 <nslater> awe.... i got devoiced
17:46:03 <nsh> sbp, -iadically agreed
17:46:07 <_bjoern> (http://g.photos.cx/nestz6we4f001-6e.jpg 4 teh logs)
17:46:09 <nsh> sbp-iadic!
17:46:10 <sbp> nslater: for storkhatred
17:46:17 <sbp> ooh, -iadic
17:46:59 *** nsh changed the topic to: "#swhack, storkhate not welcome"
17:47:12 <Arnia> *ruffles die Feder des Störches
17:47:57 <bancus> Don't SHITRUDE the storks.
17:48:31 *** lordi has quit (Remote closed the connection)
17:48:41 *** Talliesi2 is now known as Talliesin
17:49:47 <nsh> .wik Basilisk
17:49:47 <phenny> "In European bestiaries and legends, a basilisk (from the Greek βασιλίσκος basiliskos, a little king, in Latin Regulus) is a legendary reptile reputed to be king of serpents and said to have the power of causing death by a single glance." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basilisk
17:51:06 <_bjoern> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild:Basilisk.jpg
17:52:02 <nslater> sbp: http://bytesexual.org/about/
17:52:08 <nslater> sbp: can I have my voice back nao pls
17:52:21 <sbp> if you profess storklove
17:52:28 <nslater> sbp: pls check link
17:52:37 <sbp> oh, you did
17:52:51 <sbp> double voice, because you preëmpted me
17:53:03 <nslater> hehe, win
17:53:26 <nsh> .gs profess *
17:53:27 <phenny> profess *: autogas (4), i o n a l (3), 1000df 10450g (3), true atheism (2), thematic (2), paper (2), onals (2), nurs (2), kin alternate (2), is (2), in (2)
17:53:32 <sbp> this is a great day for storkohuman relations!
17:53:52 <nslater> and recorded for all time in the swhack logs for future historians
17:54:43 <_bjoern> for all the time ... until sbp decides to edit them in his favour, naturally.
17:55:09 <sbp> yeah
17:58:59 * _bjoern wonders what to make of the current pix
17:59:09 * _bjoern looks up "schunkeln"
17:59:41 <sbp> Schunkelniad
18:00:00 <sbp> getting darks in storktown
18:00:20 <_bjoern> to sway rhythmically, to rock to and fro together, to swing and sway, to sway left and right, ...
18:01:04 <sbp> incidentally, we can clearly see that the lamps are lit!
18:01:09 <sbp> and there are many of them
18:01:14 <_bjoern> (you do it usually with linked arms in, say, beer tents)
18:01:33 <_bjoern> the BFL is off though
18:01:36 <_bjoern> (big fat light)
18:01:58 <sbp> where is the BFL?
18:02:18 <_bjoern> The construct on the left we've inspected earlier.
18:02:36 <sbp> no, I think that one's on too
18:02:48 <sbp> it's clearly visible as greenish-light
18:02:58 <sbp> same tone as the other lamps going up the road
18:03:25 <_bjoern> ah maybe the night vision is so sensitive to it then
18:04:20 *** therethinker (n=therethi@c-24-34-102-128.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #swhack
18:06:08 <_bjoern> Now we have a BFS
18:06:26 <_bjoern> right in ... well pretty much everywhere
18:07:22 *** kwijibo (n=kwijibo@87.112.8.33.plusnet.ptn-ag1.dyn.plus.net) has joined #swhack
18:09:32 <sbp> hehe
18:12:09 <bancus> Oh, wow.
18:12:11 <bancus> That's cool.
18:12:23 <bancus> I got a subscription to an NPR show Says You on audible.com
18:12:32 <bancus> They give you the option of turning that subscription into a podcast.
18:12:48 <bancus> And here I was thinking what a pain in the ass it would be to have to remember to go download it every week.
18:13:02 <nsh> then you have the option of turning that podcast into a torrent
18:13:13 <nsh> evurywun wins
18:16:41 *** plum has quit (Remote closed the connection)
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18:17:57 *** plum has quit (Remote closed the connection)
18:18:05 *** plum (n=plum@unaffiliated/plum) has joined #swhack
18:21:09 *** plum has quit (Remote closed the connection)
18:22:13 <Monty> _bjoern: You asked me to remind you to SBP DAY/NIGHT SWITCH
18:22:24 <nsh> what's the word when you make a distinction
18:22:28 <nsh> a limiting one
18:22:31 <nsh> begins with circum*
18:23:13 <bancus> circumlocution?
18:23:19 <bancus> .wn circumlocution
18:23:20 <nsh> nah, that's talking around
18:23:32 <bancus> I'm not aware of any word starting with circum that means that.
18:23:37 <bancus> circum is always around something.
18:23:52 <nsh> mmm
18:23:55 <nsh> perhaps i'm misgroping
18:23:59 <bancus> :o
18:24:05 <bancus> You certainly are, sir. Unhand me.
18:24:34 <nsh> with the way you're dressed, you were asking for it
18:24:48 <Arnia> circumscribing?
18:24:52 <nsh> yeah
18:24:55 <nsh> just found it mseself
18:24:57 <bancus> That makes no sense.
18:25:00 <nsh> circumscription
18:25:00 <bancus> Writing around?
18:25:07 <nsh> 1. The action of circumscribing, or fact of being circumscribed; the marking out of limits (of territory, etc.); bounding, limitation, restriction, restraint; the having well-defined limits.
18:25:28 <bancus> Seems like it'd be circumscription : circumlocution :: libel : slander
18:27:15 *** c (n=c@c-98-216-10-223.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #swhack
18:32:43 <sbp> switch!
18:35:54 <nsh> (u forgot to bait first)
18:36:09 <nsh> iz k, coman mistaek
18:40:12 <sbp> that might be Swhack's first angling joke
18:40:29 <sbp> we've had a few angle jokes probably
18:40:35 <sbp> "you're looking acute today!"
18:41:25 <bancus> Shaddap, you obtuse fuck.
18:42:06 <sbp> ooh
18:42:09 <sbp> I... ehy!
18:43:41 <nsh> SPEEDJAZZ AND THE HEISENBERG UNCERTAINTY PRINCIPLE
18:43:56 <nsh> all up in my earslums
18:45:26 <nsh> ahahaha
18:45:31 <nsh> best scientific analogy ever!
18:45:47 <nsh> "in order to make their way through them, the electrons would have to bolt past like midgets in a subway station."
18:47:17 <sbp> oh man
18:48:21 <nsh> http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=8458405146146078500&autoPlay=true&playerMode=embedded
18:48:24 <nsh> for the win
18:48:41 <nsh> (or navigate through: http://best.online.docus.googlepages.com/ Science->
18:48:42 <nsh> )
18:48:49 <nsh> not sure if that link will play if not embedded
18:49:13 <nsh> (it might be less awesome without the jazz in the background. i suggest playing adding jazz)
18:50:33 <sbp> bancus: any idea what the right codepoint is for the unstressed metrical foot symbol that looks like a u? I've been using ∪, UNION, but I doubt that's right
18:54:27 <clsn> .u breve
18:54:28 <phenny> U+02D8 BREVE (˘)
18:59:12 <clsn> using ImageMagick, with a GIF file of only three or four colors, how can I make (1) the white be transparent and (2) the yellow be white ?
18:59:21 *** plum (n=plum@unaffiliated/plum) has joined #swhack
19:01:00 <clsn> nm I think I just figured it out.
19:02:25 <bancus> Yeah, it's a breve.
19:02:49 <bancus> Literally meaning short, I think.
19:02:55 <bancus> .ety breve
19:02:55 <phenny> "1460, musical notation indicating two whole notes, from L. breve (adj.) 'short.' the grammatical curved line placed over a vowel to indicate 'shortness' (1548) is from the same source." - http://etymonline.com/?term=breve
19:03:12 <bancus> back when metrical feet were about length rather than stress
19:04:54 <clsn> Thing is, is there a full-sized one for metrical feet stuff? ISTR that what the use in poetry books isn't just the plain ol' macron and breve.
19:05:13 *** Talliesin has quit ("Leaving.")
19:11:41 <procto> nsh: nice site. I just started watching History->Ancient->Assyrians
19:11:47 <procto> nsh: and it has the most hilarious beginning ever
19:11:49 <procto> EVER
19:11:58 <procto> it's about a girl dating an modern assyrian
19:12:07 <procto> and her dad not liking him
19:12:22 * nsh smiles
19:12:26 <procto> "I think I know why. It's because I'm assyrian."
19:12:33 <procto> "He'll have to like you. After we're married!"
19:12:41 <procto> "Get in this house this instant young lady!"
19:12:42 <procto> so dramatic
19:12:52 <nsh> .wik Yossarian lives!
19:12:53 <phenny> "Catch As Catch Can: The Collected Stories and Other Writings is a 2003 collection of writings by Joseph Heller, author of Catch-22." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catch_As_Catch_Can:_The_Collected_Stories_and_Other_Writings
19:12:59 <nsh> .wik Yossarian
19:13:00 <phenny> "Capt. John Yossarian is a fictional character in Joseph Heller's novel Catch-22 and its sequel Closing Time." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yossarian
19:13:11 <nsh> bah, a fictional Assyrian character
19:13:29 <procto> roflmfao
19:13:36 <procto> they just broke from the video with a "cut!"
19:13:42 <procto> and now the bigoted dad is narrating
19:13:52 <procto> not before he told the daughter "good job!"
19:14:33 <nsh> le method legendre
19:14:56 <procto> whoops, wrong channel
19:14:58 <procto> ugh
19:14:59 <procto> it was produced by the Assyrian-American Association
19:15:07 <procto> so it's a total propaganda thing
19:15:14 <procto> omg, there's a shootout at a grocery store now
19:15:22 <procto> and it all looks late 80's
19:15:27 <procto> with matching music
19:16:55 <procto> this is the worst docu I've ever seen other than things like Zeitgeist and its ilk
19:19:06 <Arnia> .wik anti-objects
19:19:08 <phenny> "The notion of antiobjects is a computational metaphor useful to conceptualize and solve hard problems by swapping computational foreground and background." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiobjects
19:20:16 *** RobotGuy (n=robotguy@dsl093-038-072.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #swhack
19:27:19 * nsh watch^Wlistening to http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7121440669004213981 over jazz
19:27:32 *** MorbusIff (n=morbus@c-24-34-64-110.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) has joined #swhack
19:27:59 * nsh sacrifices twenty innocences to Morbus
19:28:10 <nsh> and twelve purity
19:28:18 <twe> About twelve years ago with "night-mode" cameras that recorded ir?
19:28:54 <kpreid> <sbp> “One of the most famous female progamers in the world, ...
19:29:08 <kpreid> I read that as "programmers" and was quite confused for a few seconds.
19:29:30 <nsh> i read it as "one of the most female programmers in the world"
19:29:36 <nsh> and was also
19:29:38 <kpreid> also, python wins for idle fiddling with encodings
19:30:37 <clsn> sbp: so I've rejiggled the lexer, and took all the images from the old "Blazons!" program and put them into my Chargelist file, after messing appropriately with their colors. Can't do everything, but wow, a whole lot of neat things suddenly work!
19:43:52 *** c has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
19:45:36 <nsh> .wik Huygens envelope
19:45:37 <phenny> "In mathematics, a first order partial differential equation is a partial differential equation that involves only first derivatives of the unknown function of n variables." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_order_partial_differential_equation
19:46:29 <nsh> .wik Huygens principle
19:46:30 <phenny> "The Huygens–Fresnel principle (named for Dutch physicist Christiaan Huygens, and French physicist Augustin-Jean Fresnel) is a method of analysis applied to problems of wave propagation (both in the far field limit and in near field diffraction)." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huygens_principle
19:47:31 <nsh> I think Huygens Principle + Minkowski Locality + Transfinite Reflexivity == Relative-state quantum reality
19:51:55 * RobotGuy is away: Soldering LEDs
19:51:58 *** RobotGuy is now known as RobotGuy-Out
19:52:36 <sbp> some referrers that I've had within the past hour:
19:52:37 <sbp> [prettify textarea], [tidy means], [luminous mists], [richard iii conclusion], [what is a flibbertigibbet?]
19:52:53 * nsh decides he will talk like Arthur C. Clark for the next fortnight
19:53:01 <nsh> are they from bots, sbp?
19:53:04 <sbp> no
19:53:08 <nsh> google terms?
19:53:11 <sbp> yes
19:53:12 <nsh> ah
19:53:27 <nsh> tidy means tasty!
19:53:30 <nsh> .gs tidy means *
19:53:31 <phenny> tidy means *: neat (9), in (3), that (2), good (2), clean (2)
19:53:40 <sbp> tidy meanz heinz
19:55:31 *** c (n=c@c-98-216-10-223.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #swhack
19:56:00 <nsh> ENICKTOOSHORT
19:56:21 <bancus> .gs * is next to godliness
19:56:23 <phenny> * is next to godliness: cleanliness (17), timeliness (2), roaness (2), clenliness (2)
19:56:33 <bancus> .g roaness
19:56:33 <phenny> bancus: http://roaanne.multiply.com/photos/album/30/roaness25
19:58:13 * RobotGuy-Out returns.
19:58:25 *** RobotGuy-Out is now known as RobotGuy
19:58:35 <nsh> ur amsgs, we no want tehm
19:59:00 <nsh> we'll know you're back when the inanity increases :-)
20:02:52 <RobotGuy> nsh: Are you an Admin?
20:03:15 <nsh> .ety annulus
20:03:16 <phenny> Can't find the etymology for "annulus". Try http://etymonline.com/?search=annulus
20:03:24 * nsh is seven admins
20:04:01 <nsh> [Etymology: L., erroneous mediæval spelling of anulus a ring, dim. of rare anus a rounding, a circular form (see Lewis and Short).]
20:13:39 <clsn> .wik hurling
20:13:40 <phenny> "Hurling (in Irish, iománaíocht or iomáint) is an outdoor team sport of ancient Gaelic origin, administered by the Gaelic Athletic Association, and played with sticks and a ball." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurling
20:15:29 *** chris2 has quit ("und wech...")
20:16:57 <Arnia> Back!
20:17:45 <Arnia> "Unlike some of our own "Dr" MPs, Paul is a real physician, serving as a US air force doctor before delivering more than 5,000 babies as an obstetrician." -- http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/mar/27/uselections2008.usa
20:18:12 <nsh> Storktastic!
20:18:20 <clsn> We have a bunch of MD members of congress and senators I think.
20:18:35 <Arnia> Is he making a comment along the lines of PhDs not being 'real' doctors? If so I'm tempted to comment that it is physicians who hold the honorary doctorates, not the real ones :p
20:18:54 <sbp> storkblur at the moment
20:19:03 <nsh> should set up storkline
20:19:12 <nsh> with cool text2speech descriptions of storkuation
20:19:26 <sbp> ooh yes
20:19:57 * Arnia should write a text-to-speech agent using the speech synthesis API on OS X
20:20:11 <sbp> so I just realised that the concept of contributing to humanity is itself a temporal provincialism
20:20:21 <nsh> damn straight
20:20:29 <nsh> <stoned cat> wait, what?
20:20:31 <sbp> in that it's a very new innovation, really
20:20:51 <nsh> .origin MortenF
20:20:51 <phenny> nsh: .origin hasn't been ported to my new codebase yet
20:21:11 <nsh> you're a codebase
20:21:11 <nsh> .swhack MortenF
20:21:24 <phenny> nsh: http://swhack.com/logs/2007-11-27#T14-09-16
20:21:30 <sbp> .swhack <MortenF
20:21:50 <phenny> sbp: http://swhack.com/logs/2005-05-11#T00-18-06
20:22:05 <nsh> .seen libby
20:22:05 <phenny> nsh: I last saw libby at 2008-03-27 11:50:26 UTC on #swig
20:22:12 * nsh reimports libby
20:22:34 <sbp> what I mean is that single contributions to mankind's advancement were rather rare before the written word. someone might locally have brought on smelting techniques or what have you, but since the written word we've developed pretty quickly
20:22:36 <nsh> facebook asks rhetorically, knows all, uses knowledge for sake of inanity
20:23:05 <sbp> and the possibility of being able to make a significant individual contribution has increased massively
20:23:25 * nsh nodburger
20:23:27 <bancus> I have no idea why that was all [off].
20:23:27 <sbp> in fact, even in the last hundred or so years there's been a change
20:23:36 <sbp> because economically, we're generally better off each generation
20:23:47 <sbp> in the 19th century, people didn't really think like that
20:23:57 <sbp> upwards social mobility was kinda a freak occurance
20:24:25 <nsh> there's something inherently funny about hearing hawking say million, billion, billion
20:24:36 <nsh> if i made this documentary, i would loop at that point for a few seconds
20:24:50 * nsh chuckles to self contentedly
20:25:00 <nsh> don't misspeak!
20:25:10 <nsh> it causes monsterism
20:25:25 <sbp> I guess I just raise this as an example of how easy it is to be temporally provincial
20:25:46 <sbp> perhaps there's some other value to glean from it too...
20:25:51 *** MoiraA has quit ("I know when I'm not wanted somewhere!")
20:25:53 <nsh> sbp, squeeze is mang
20:25:59 <nsh> squeeze it mang too
20:26:01 <sbp> ehwhatplz?
20:26:03 <sbp> heh
20:26:06 <nsh> .gc squeeze is *
20:26:07 <phenny> squeeze is *: 1,230,000
20:26:11 <nsh> .gs squeeze is *
20:26:11 <phenny> squeeze is *: forever (4), pretty connivingly (3), offline (3), glum (3), unknowable (2), touring (2), tightest (2), tighter (2), terrence (2), spreading (2)
20:26:18 * sbp squeezes all possible gleanage
20:26:40 <nsh> squeeze is spreading glum, offline, forever!
20:26:44 <sbp> .wik Marsh bunting
20:26:45 <phenny> "Walthamstow Marsh, located in the London Borough of Waltham Forest, is a designated Site of Special Scientific Interest SSSI." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walthamstow_Marshes
20:26:50 <sbp> what?
20:26:53 <sbp> .gc "marsh bunting"
20:26:53 <phenny> "marsh bunting": 66
20:26:58 <Arnia> Hah "Other than his opposition to the Iraq war and his dislike of Israel, he opposes almost everything that most social democrats endorse. He's sort of an anti-Swede."
20:27:04 <sbp> oh come on, there so ought to be a bird called the marsh bunting
20:27:05 <Arnia> .gc anti-Swede
20:27:06 <phenny> anti-Swede: 545
20:27:51 <sbp> I guess this is related to the question of what religion a plover has; a sort of functionalist argument
20:28:19 <sbp> religions seem a bit like languages or philosophies or many other such things
20:28:27 <nsh> .gc the koans of *
20:28:28 <phenny> the koans of *: 17,200
20:28:31 <nsh> damnit
20:28:43 <nsh> .gs the koans of *
20:28:44 <phenny> the koans of *: zen (11), zen buddhism (4), pai-chang huai (4), master foo (3), yogi (2), wu (2), w axl (2), rinzai (2), mobile (2), daily (2)
20:28:52 <nsh> the koans of axel foley!
20:29:01 <nsh> dearlordplsmaekhappn
20:29:02 <sbp> generally grouped under useful categories, but actually prototypicalist so that each person has their own dialect
20:29:19 <sbp> and variant across circumstance and so on
20:29:28 <Arnia> sbp: well, any cultural (that is, in the sense of shared knowledge) phenomenon has a lot in common with any other
20:29:53 <sbp> well it's obvious *now*... :-)
20:30:07 <Arnia> sbp: witness the philosophies of science and how they vary across cultures
20:30:10 <bancus> .gs the tao of *
20:30:11 <phenny> the tao of *: old time banjo (6), steve (5), waitressing (4), mac (4), wow (3), the (3), pooh (3), yiquan (2), xdi (2), wow isbn 096292024x (2)
20:30:17 <nsh> anyways meng
20:30:21 <nsh> i go homeplace
20:30:22 <bancus> .gs zen and the art of *
20:30:23 <phenny> zen and the art of *: motorcycle (18), relaxation (5), lawyering (5), netjitsu (4), landscaping (4), frisbee (4), dumpster (3), virtualization (2), tyromancy (2)
20:30:32 <nsh> eatface freelove
20:30:37 *** nsh has quit ("and twirling")
20:30:39 <sbp> travelbop ye well nsh
20:30:47 <Arnia> sbp: one of many reasons I have to laugh at people who talk about 'scientific method' as a great truth. I always ask them to name *which* scientific method they're talking about
20:31:32 <clsn> Why, *my* scientific method. Available right now for the low, low price of only 47.77...
20:31:33 <sbp> Arnia: I'm trying to cultivate this into a more developed personal belief system that I can then write about, but I'm having difficulty assembling all the pieces properly
20:31:48 <sbp> I mean, I have scatterings of motives and aims
20:31:56 <Arnia> clsn: DUZ IT HAZ ALEMBIC?
20:32:22 <bancus> .gs free *
20:32:23 <phenny> free *: software (6), trial (4), counters (4), web (3), rice (3), press (3), online (3), javascripts (3), gis (3), exchange (3), download (3), and (3)
20:32:35 <bancus> .gs no such thing as *
20:32:36 <phenny> no such thing as *: nonaccidental (5), doomsday (5), cinderellas (5), luck (4), coincidence (4), overkill (3), islamofascism (3), vampires (2), talent (2), society (2)
20:32:44 *** libby has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:32:50 <bancus> .gs * is watching you
20:32:51 <phenny> * is watching you: brother (3), netbrother (2), littlebrother (2), facesoft (2), eyebox2 (2), bigchampagne (2)
20:32:56 <sbp> I mean I imagine it would be quite neat to have a work that looked at things like mutheism, natural philosophy, metatropes, relativism, cognitive science, mini-models, ars discovery, developments in ethics, and all that kind of stuff
20:33:21 <sbp> all of these things play off of one another
20:33:30 <sbp> but it's quite an alien model in some respects
20:34:19 <sbp> I keep vascillating between concentrating it into a kind of magnum opus scheme or spreading it across various endeavours
20:34:25 <sbp> ultimately I can't avoid doing the latter
20:34:28 <twe> Concentrating all of a quorum." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/gould.
20:34:39 <sbp> so the question simply remains as to whether I should bother with the former
20:34:58 <sbp> I've been thinking about a kind of Garden of Cyrus thing
20:35:25 <sbp> you know, how it's all ostensibly about one subject—and does effectively discource 'pon it—but really contains all this interesting other stuff in one huge weft
20:35:46 <Arnia> What about doing it as a sort of festschrift style affair... or one of the Oxford Handbooks
20:36:01 <sbp> Browne was in that really interesting transitional period between the Elizajacobean period and the age of the Royal Society
20:36:11 <twe> Between that and got into our mobile-skewed world war 4 now.
20:36:24 <sbp> which academic? or what subject?
20:36:38 <Arnia> You ask a number of people who you trust to deliver an entertaining account to write an essay each on a particular subject. You're in control of the overall theme and the editing and will generally write the introduction and conclusions
20:37:22 <sbp> oh, I see what you mean. you're referring to a general apparatus, not those schemes specifically
20:37:30 <Arnia> Can also write an essay too... but the point is to give a lot of perspectives on different aspects of the problem with you in control of the ribbon that links them together
20:37:37 <sbp> that would alleiviate the great problem of writing, yes, but...
20:37:41 <sbp> hmm
20:37:50 <sbp> then the problem is: who would I ask? :-)
20:37:54 <sbp> you, granted...
20:38:02 <sbp> perhaps WL if he'd be up to it
20:38:08 <sbp> nsh? xover?
20:38:19 <sbp> darobin?
20:38:19 <Arnia> They'd be good. Vyv?
20:38:30 <sbp> hmm, possibly yes
20:38:41 <sbp> how many would be needed? a dozen?
20:38:59 <procto> what's the subject?
20:39:00 <Arnia> Yeah... between 10 and 15 is normal
20:39:02 <procto> that list of things you listed?
20:39:09 <sbp> yeah
20:39:09 <twe> Normal is a put operating on the 15th century.
20:39:40 <procto> relativism you meant as in "cultural relativism", right?
20:39:59 <sbp> many forms of relativism
20:40:12 * Arnia flies the flag of embodied relativism
20:41:05 <procto> so, philosophically?
20:41:07 <sbp> could call it the Concrete Parking Lot of Cyrus
20:41:21 <procto> Foreclosed Development of Cyrus
20:41:25 <Arnia> Just 'Concrete Parking Lots' would be a good title
20:41:30 <Arnia> (in my opinion)