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01:23:00 <procto> Arnia: I know it's not quite in your field, but have you seen http://openwetware.org/wiki/Main_Page ?
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01:23:18 <procto> Arnia: I saw a presentation last year by a guy who does bio engineering work
01:23:28 <procto> Arnia: and this shit is fucking cool
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01:23:52 <procto> Arnia: I didn't expect how advanced some of their tools are.
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01:25:20 <Arnia> procto: there are things which aren't in my field?
01:25:26 <procto> Arnia: like VectorNTI
01:25:34 <procto> well, you don't tend to deal with wetware, afaik
01:25:47 <procto> vectornit is a fancy-ass CAD tool
01:25:51 <procto> where you design Parts
01:26:07 <procto> you can grab open source genetic components form parts.mit.edu
01:26:12 <procto> design new ones in the CAD
01:26:22 <procto> and then automatically send the order to the company that makes the CAD tool
01:26:28 <procto> few weeks, and you get them in the mail
01:26:30 <procto> delightful
01:27:52 <procto> fe rourse you'll have to insert your ordered parts into an e.coli yourself
01:27:56 <procto> but that's pretty easy
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01:52:33 <thelsdj> http://thelsdj.org/52_01.jpg
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02:41:41 <Monty> bah, it's bct again
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03:06:18 <therethinker> .gc ironman porn
03:06:19 <phenny> ironman porn: 517,000
03:06:37 <therethinker> .gc ironman review porn
03:06:38 <phenny> ironman review porn: 138,000
03:06:43 <therethinker> .gc ironman review
03:06:45 <phenny> ironman review: 318,000
03:07:24 <therethinker> .gc ironman review "gadget porn"
03:07:24 <phenny> ironman review "gadget porn": 102,000
03:07:51 <therethinker> Its offical, I fucking hate ironman
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06:57:15 <sbp> yo
06:58:53 <xover> oy
07:15:19 <sbp> 'ellöz
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07:22:00 <thelsdj> http://www.madeditor.com/2008/05/my-mad-fixations.html
07:27:09 <thelsdj> backstory, editor of self published 'secular homeschooling' magazine has issues with getting non religious advertisers
07:30:33 <ja> drop the r world and the loonies go away
07:35:33 <thelsdj> original post about this advertiser: http://www.madeditor.com/2008/04/750000-question.html
07:47:26 <sbp> “From 600 AD to 1400 AD, Europe fell into the Dark Ages (also called the Middle Ages). Science did not advance during this era of time. The Bible was forbidden in many countries, thus, learning and knowledge came to a standstill in Europe.”
07:48:35 <thelsdj> [[[
07:48:38 <thelsdj> We had a great conversation about what the guy over at PAC was like on the phone. He loved the copy of the magazine Gail had sent him, she reported. He didn't even ask about our circ numbers when he said he wanted a back cover ad.
07:48:42 <thelsdj> That and some of the stuff she saw on the site -- she hadn't seen the things I had -- set off a few alarms of her own. She asked him flat-out if this was a religious curriculum.
07:48:46 <thelsdj> His answer?
07:48:48 <thelsdj> "Why, we've used this in public schools!"
07:48:50 <thelsdj> I don't to offend any of my terrific readers (and writers); but I think maybe the fact that this company is apparently based in Texas might have something to do with that.
07:48:54 <thelsdj> ]]]
07:49:16 <xover> Brevity is Divine.
07:51:27 <sbp> .wik Robert Ingersoll
07:51:27 <phenny> "Robert G. Ingersoll, (1833–1899), prominent orator and politician from Illinois" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Ingersoll
07:53:05 <sbp> ‘In his Devil's Dictionary American journalist and writer Ambrose Bierce included his own version of the Decalogue in which the second commandment is, "No images nor idols make/for Robert Ingersoll to break."’
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07:54:16 <sbp> .title http://www.cs.rice.edu/~ssiyer/minstrels/poems/735.html
07:54:17 <phenny> sbp: [minstrels] Decalogue -- Ambrose Bierce
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08:00:58 <Monty> lo b4d
08:01:08 <b4d> hi
08:03:34 <sbp> hey b4d. come looking for phenny help?
08:06:59 <b4d> no, i'm just dropping by, heard about this channel somewhere :)
08:08:16 <thelsdj> WHERE?!?!?!
08:08:19 <thelsdj> SHIT!!!
08:08:23 <thelsdj> word has gotten out :((
08:13:47 <sbp> so, looking at religions in the first handful of centuries AD, and...
08:14:03 <sbp> “Mazdak emphasized good conduct, which involved a moral and ascetic life, no killing and not eating flesh (which contained substances solely from Darkness), being kind and friendly and living in peace with other people. [...] He planned to have all private property confiscated, and replace marriage with free love.” - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazdak
08:14:12 <xover> There were a lot of them?
08:14:18 <sbp> yeah, loads
08:14:44 <xover> I like the ones with nubile virgins in them.
08:14:54 <sbp> some of 'em even survived
08:15:12 <sbp> like, there's one religion who follows John the Baptist, derived from the times of John the Baptist
08:15:14 <xover> I've always felt nubile virgins are a very spiritual, uhm, accutrement.
08:15:29 <sbp> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandaeism
08:16:16 <sbp> “This etymology suggests that the Mandaeans may well be the only sect from late Antiquity to identify themselves explicitly as Gnostics.”
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09:42:26 <sbp> heh, the warden's tower on the Farne Islands
09:42:30 <sbp> the kitchen has taps
09:42:39 <sbp> but they don't have running water. no water comes from the taps
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09:44:50 <sbp> .ety caravan
09:44:51 <phenny> "1588, from M.Fr. caravane, from O.Fr. carouan, picked up in the Crusades from Pers. karwan 'group of desert travelers.' Used in Eng. for 'vehicle' 17c., esp. for a covered cart." - http://etymonline.com/?term=caravan
09:44:52 <sbp> .ety camel
09:44:55 <phenny> "O.E., from L. camelus, from Gk. kamelos, from Heb. or Phoen. gamal, perhaps related to Ar. jamala 'to bear.' Another O.E. word for the beast was olfend, apparently were based on confusion of camels with elephants in a place and time when both were known only from [...]" - http://etymonline.com/?term=camel
09:45:04 <sbp> .wik William Gordon Stables
09:45:05 <phenny> "William Gordon Stables MD, CM." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Gordon_Stables
09:45:38 <sbp> wow, they're playing a different version of... I forget the name of the song
09:45:42 <sbp> shipping forecast intro
09:45:58 <sbp> Sailing By
09:46:20 <sbp> .gc "Hurricane Bob"
09:46:20 <phenny> "Hurricane Bob": 56,200
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11:17:08 <sbp> phenny: en fr "religion"?
11:17:09 <phenny> sbp: "religion" (en -> fr)
11:17:46 <sbp> phenny: en fr "the religion"?
11:17:46 <phenny> sbp: "la religion" (en -> fr)
11:20:45 <realist> .ety chilli
11:20:45 <phenny> Can't find the etymology for "chilli". Try http://etymonline.com/?search=chilli
11:20:59 <realist> .ety chili
11:21:00 <phenny> "1662, from Nahuatl cilli, native name for the peppers." - http://etymonline.com/?term=chili
11:23:21 <cre8radix> heya
11:23:22 <cre8radix> !
11:59:50 <nslater> has anyone seen what Hillary Clinton has been threatening? It's very disturbing. "I want the Iranians to know that if I'm the president, we will attack Iran. In the next 10 years, during which they might foolishly consider launching an attack on Israel, we would be able to totally obliterate them."
11:59:55 <nslater> http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080423/wl_uk_afp/usvoteclintoniranbritain
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12:09:54 <sbp> yo cre8radix
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12:11:32 <sbp> phenny: "Es gibt nichts Schwierigeres als eine Linie"?
12:11:34 <phenny> sbp: "there is nothing more difficult than a line" (de)
12:11:44 <sbp> - Picasso
12:11:52 <sbp> I don't think he originally said it in German though
12:12:41 <cre8radix> yo sbp
12:13:15 <xover> «…Hillary Clinton['s] very disturbing. […]», indeed.
12:13:53 <sbp> her deck of cards is missing more than the Jack and the Ace
12:23:04 <sbp> yay, over 5000 words of poetry this year now
12:23:58 <xover> You should put up a counter. On your web home. On MySpaceJournal.
12:24:28 <xover> Hmm, no. That just came out as snarky and mean.
12:26:17 <xover> Ok, I give up; I can't think of any funny way to exhort you to publish the stuff.
12:32:03 * nslater snarks xover
12:39:19 <sbp> well I'm weaving it into this book I'm writing
12:39:31 <nslater> you have a title yet?
12:39:37 <sbp> one of the core bits of it is an æsthetic theory of poetry
12:39:48 <sbp> so I use some of my own examples to show how it helped me, if meagrely
12:39:53 <sbp> no title yet, nope
12:40:05 <sbp> possibly I'll do the old trick of borrowing one of the essay titles as the overall collection title
12:40:14 <sbp> since I have titles for all (but one) of the essays
12:40:21 <xover> «Shitrude!»
12:40:25 <xover> «Swhack!»
12:40:26 <sbp> ehheh
12:40:29 <sbp> ooh
12:40:31 <xover> «COCKS!»
12:40:34 <sbp> Swhack! isn't a bad idea
12:40:44 <sbp> Shitrude! and COCKS! aren't bad ideas either, in a sense
12:40:58 <xover> I KNOW IT IS NOT BECAUSE I SUGGESTED IT AND ALL MY SUGGESTIONS ALWAYS WORKS SOMETIMES MAYBE
12:41:03 <sbp> anyway, I'm gonna write another essay
12:41:20 <sbp> I already wrote two today, about 3000 words or so already
12:41:25 <xover> On Cocks?
12:41:26 <sbp> and now I have an idea for a third. whoo
12:41:55 <sbp> not on cocks. on the principles of utopia as they've changed throughout history and the interdependence of the value of money
12:42:07 <sbp> (this book is gonna be a laugh riot, I tells ya)
12:42:17 <sbp> it really reads better than the summary sounds... :-)
12:42:18 <sbp> (sometimes)
12:42:19 <xover> The principles of utopia?
12:42:34 <sbp> yeah. the ideas of what constitutes a utopia
12:42:44 <sbp> i.e. what people have aimed for or conceived as the perfect society
12:42:48 <xover> Dude, put down that pipe and step away from the philosphical papers.
12:43:07 <sbp> well one of my points is that it hasn't always been a bong dream
12:43:19 <sbp> in fact, that's kinda *the* point of the first half
12:43:23 <sbp> OR WILL BE WHEN I WRITE IT
12:43:27 * sbp writes it in the background
12:43:41 <xover> Sneaky.
12:43:50 <sbp> aye
12:43:54 <sbp> and I'm eating cake
12:44:38 <xover> .gd dimewit
12:44:39 <phenny> dimewit: No definition found!
12:44:43 <xover> .gc dimewit
12:44:44 <phenny> dimewit: 14
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12:52:15 <Monty> Thank goodness, idickinson is back!
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13:17:16 <sbp> there, written
13:17:26 <sbp> it came out pretty well; a little better than I expected, even
13:17:46 <sbp> one of the shorter essays. brings me to over 25,000 words now
13:20:00 <cre8radix> howuz dacake?
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13:24:05 <nslater> sbp: do you know of a combining character that rotates a glyph by 180 degrees in Unicode?
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13:28:01 <xover> I don't think Unicode defines that sort of behaviour.
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13:28:14 <nslater> bah, I was hoping to encode a copyleft symbol
13:28:21 <kpreid> I think if it existed, certain people would be using it enthusiastically
13:28:32 <nslater> I found some clueless thread on the UC mailing lists from back in 2000
13:29:42 <xover> You exaggerate. Battlestar Galactica writing in Season 4, now there's clueless for you.
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13:40:20 <clsn> It's been occasionally proposed, but not generally viewed as a possibility. However, you could do ɔ with a COMBINING ENCLOSING CIRCLE.
13:40:30 <clsn> .u OPEN O
13:40:32 <phenny> U+0254 LATIN SMALL LETTER OPEN O (ɔ)
13:40:42 <clsn> .u COMBINING ENCLOSING CIRCLE
13:40:42 <sbp> .u comb enc cir
13:40:43 <phenny> U+20DD COMBINING ENCLOSING CIRCLE (⃝)
13:40:43 <phenny> U+20DD COMBINING ENCLOSING CIRCLE (⃝)
13:41:07 <clsn> ɔ⃝
13:41:13 <sbp> cre8radix|afk: it was very nice thanks!
13:41:46 <clsn> You might or might not sell a copyleft symbol to the Unicode ppl. If enough people suggest it... *shrug*
13:42:09 <nslater> it seems to have been suggested already and informally rejected
13:42:19 <clsn> Yes.
13:42:24 <sbp> seems a bit of a transitory thing to include
13:42:28 <nslater> nazis
13:42:30 <clsn> I've seen it mentioned now and then on the Unicode mailing lists.
13:42:30 <sbp> I mean, it's not really part of a script
13:43:04 <clsn> Someone also wanted to do the Creative Commons double-c-in-a-circle.
13:43:06 <nslater> sbp: it's about 40 years old now
13:43:29 <aspect> yet upside-down English characters are?
13:43:30 <sbp> nslater: well I'd be cynical and say the only point of including it would be to gain it more awareness
13:43:38 <sbp> which is not why you include characters in unicode
13:44:00 <nslater> well, what about people who wish to make a statement of copyleft, it's not exactly an exotic thing these days
13:44:10 <nslater> and the concept is almost half a decade old
13:44:16 <sbp> but it's a movement
13:44:36 <nslater> hmm, not really, it's used by a number of disparate movements
13:44:58 <nslater> that doesn't make it any less a glyph that people wish to use
13:45:03 <sbp> not as many as, say, a new currency symbol etc. though
13:45:07 <nslater> sure
13:45:14 <clsn> Upside-down English characters are used for other purposes, mostly IPA.
13:45:19 <nslater> are they running out of code points? are they a precious resource? ;)
13:45:42 <sbp> well. yes
13:45:48 <clsn> Maybe they should charge for code-points. Not for encoding them, but for using them.
13:46:00 <sbp> because unicode doesn't account very well for languages like Chinese
13:46:10 <clsn> Well, that's what plane 2 is for.
13:46:27 <clsn> And planes 3-13 are quite quite empty.
13:46:53 <clsn> Imagine if you had to pay per character... owait. ISPs already do that.
13:46:55 <nslater> I still think it's pretty weird that a glyph that could have such a large, global use is refused
13:47:09 <sbp> .c 10FFFFF in decimal
13:47:10 <phenny> sbp: Sorry, no result.
13:47:14 <sbp> .c 0x10FFFFF in decimal
13:47:15 <phenny> 0x10FFFFF = 17 825 791
13:47:24 <sbp> eh?
13:47:26 <sbp> oh
13:47:30 <sbp> .c 0x10FFFF in decimal
13:47:30 <phenny> 0x10FFFF = 1 114 111
13:48:05 <sbp> if English had one character per word, Unicode would be nearly exhausted already
13:48:09 <clsn> nslater: So write a proposal and whine furiously on the unicode lists. Works for the rest of us.
13:48:26 <nslater> meh
13:48:37 <sbp> *could* have such a large, global use?
13:48:40 <sbp> not *would*?
13:48:42 <clsn> If you can outwhine The Man keeping the characters down, you win.
13:48:56 <clsn> Lots of things COULD have a lot of use.
13:49:01 <clsn> They rejected Klingon.
13:49:03 <nslater> sbp: well, how can we know until it is a character that is available for use?
13:49:10 <sbp> and Tolkien's stuff
13:49:15 <nslater> seems like they put the cart before the horse with this
13:49:16 <clsn> Yeah, chicken-and-egg problem didn't work for Klingon.
13:49:20 <sbp> nslater: because it ought to be in use in print, for example
13:49:21 <clsn> No, Tolkien stuff is accepted.
13:49:25 <clsn> Or on its way.
13:49:25 <sbp> is it? oh
13:49:28 <sbp> aha
13:49:34 <sbp> but not Klingon? weird
13:49:44 <xover> There should be a glyph representing the chicken and egg problem.
13:49:51 <nslater> but they say "show us it in use in plain text" and the answer is "how!?"
13:49:54 <sbp> .u chicken
13:49:56 <phenny> sbp: Sorry, no results for 'chicken'.
13:49:57 <sbp> .u egg
13:50:00 <phenny> U+C5D2 HANGUL SYLLABLE EGG (엒)
13:50:01 <clsn> But Klingon isn't. Why? Because it isn't used. Why isn't it used? Because it isn't there... It's THE most heavily used area in the PUA I think.
13:50:12 <clsn> There's a blog or two in Klingon characters.
13:50:13 <xover> .u chicken
13:50:14 <phenny> xover: Sorry, no results for 'chicken'.
13:50:26 <sbp> I'd do (>) or ()) or {)}
13:50:40 <nslater> @>:}{
13:50:49 <clsn> Nick Nicholas has links to posts about how the reasons against Klingon are mostly "Because it's fucking Klingon!"
13:50:53 <clsn> Lemme find it.
13:51:25 <clsn> http://www.tlg.uci.edu/~opoudjis/Klingon/piqad.html
13:53:01 <sbp> “The official reason why the proposal was finally rejected in May 2001 (and left to languish in the meantime) was that there is no substantial information exchange in the script.”
13:53:58 <clsn> Yeah. He talks more about the unofficial reason...
13:54:23 <sbp> fundamentally, as I keep intimating, I think unicode is broken anyway
13:54:32 <sbp> I think it should have been more fuzzily extensible
13:54:59 <clsn> But see http://qurgh.blogspot.com/
13:55:17 <sbp> ooh, awesome
13:55:25 <sbp> what does mean?
13:55:29 <clsn> But that doesn't count as interchange for some reason.
13:55:30 <sbp> woah... I have a Klingon font
13:55:38 <sbp> that works in X-Chat Aqua, but not in Firefox
13:55:44 <sbp> so I can see just fine in here!
13:55:52 <clsn> I can't tell, my xchat font isn't rendering it right. Lemme see.
13:56:02 <sbp> it's the sub-heading of that page, apparently
13:56:17 <sbp> the first copyable text on the page, just above "if you don't see pIqaD..."
13:56:20 <clsn> OK, changed fonts.
13:56:48 <clsn> "Qurgh's blog uses pIqaD"
13:56:54 <sbp> hehe
13:56:58 <sbp> thanks
13:57:17 * clsn switches fonts back.
13:57:53 <sbp> is it true that real Klingons would have to ritually sacrifice every line on IRC before they send it?
13:58:58 <clsn> No, though it does sound like fun...
13:59:10 <sbp> not sure how it would work. heh
13:59:35 <sbp> I think most users of l33t kinda do that to English in effect...
13:59:53 <sbp> omg j0 chexor out mah c00 Englis scrfc mang
14:01:26 <sbp> hmm. [)]? <)>?
14:01:46 <sbp> <)> looks kinda good
14:02:16 <clsn> Maybe I should either link to an overview of blazonry or write a quickie intro so people can at least try out the renderer better.
14:02:23 <clsn> <)> looks good for WHAT?
14:02:48 <sbp> .u ɔ
14:02:48 <phenny> U+0254 LATIN SMALL LETTER OPEN O (ɔ)
14:02:48 <Monty> "you"
14:02:56 <sbp> for (ɔ)
14:03:15 <sbp> in ascii
14:03:40 <clsn> Oh.
14:04:14 <clsn> But certainly (ɔ) is usable in Unicode applications.
14:04:19 <kpreid> ɔ⃝
14:04:27 <sbp> nslater: I'd include your (ɔ) symbol mang, if I ruled the Unicode
14:04:35 <sbp> kpreid: yeah, clsn already suggested that
14:04:52 <kpreid> so he did write it
14:05:03 <kpreid> I had not noticed
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14:05:13 <nslater> sbp: thanks mang
14:05:17 <kpreid> (does *any* rendererer do COMBINING ENCLOSING CIRCLE *well*?)
14:05:27 <nslater> it barfs on my display
14:05:59 <sbp> kpreid: (u)(o)(ı)(ʇ)(u)(ǝ)(ʇ)(ʇ)(ɐ)( )(ɹ)(ǝ)(s)(o)(ʃ)(ɔ)( )(ʎ)(ɐ)(d)
14:06:09 <sbp> COMBINGING ENCLOSING CIRCLE: no
14:06:21 <sbp> I dunno what the fuck's up with that. surely it's not *that* hard a problem, is it?
14:06:31 <clsn> I use a georgian letter for upside-down l...
14:06:34 <sbp> I mean, X-Chat Aqua gets ɔ⃝ way fucked up
14:06:39 <sbp> and usually it doesn't
14:06:43 <clsn> .u LIEW
14:06:47 <sbp> clsn: yeah, I used a shitty converter
14:06:48 <phenny> clsn: Sorry, no results for 'LIEW'.
14:06:53 <sbp> http://www.fileformat.info/convert/text/upside-down.htm
14:06:55 <clsn> Whatever I can't remember the name.
14:06:59 <sbp> normally I use another one, but I couldn't find it
14:07:02 <clsn> Oh, I wrote my own.
14:07:08 <sbp> hehe. where?
14:07:45 <clsn> uoı̣ʇuəʇʇɐ əsoլɔ ʎɐd
14:07:59 <kpreid> .cp ʃ
14:08:00 <phenny> kpreid: .cp has been replaced by .u
14:08:02 <kpreid> .u ʃ
14:08:02 <phenny> U+0283 LATIN SMALL LETTER ESH (ʃ)
14:08:35 <clsn> lisppaste2: url?
14:08:35 <lisppaste2> To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/swhack and enter your paste.
14:09:28 <lisppaste2> clsn pasted "inverter" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/60209
14:09:45 <clsn> .u լ
14:09:45 <phenny> U+056C ARMENIAN SMALL LETTER LIWN (լ)
14:10:25 <clsn> Hrm. It escaped all my unicode. :(
14:12:35 <sbp> .u l
14:12:36 <phenny> U+006C LATIN SMALL LETTER L (l)
14:12:39 <sbp> oh. heh
14:12:44 <sbp> the one I normally use just uses an l
14:12:48 <sbp> which works fine in my font
14:12:58 <sbp> chandler: ping!
14:29:45 <sbp> [[[
14:29:46 <sbp> The governor explains to the visitors how Christianity came to their country. The books of the Old and New Testament were found in a pillar of light. Here light represent knowledge which is brought to the people in the form of the bible. It goes to show that religion could not exist without knowledge. Knowledge in “The New Atlantis” is represented through advancements in science. Bacon is saying that the two would not exist without the other.
14:29:50 <sbp> ]]] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Atlantis
14:29:58 <sbp> apropos of the Bible and science quote from earlier...
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15:17:06 <nslater> the comments on this photo are very, very funny: http://www.flickr.com/photos/emoware/260257572/
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15:20:34 <sbp> nslater: *Ur a horse hater*
15:21:09 <nslater> sbp: if i was a police, i would tell on you or even take you to jail!!!!
15:21:42 <sbp> hehe
15:21:51 <sbp> police are so like that
15:21:57 <sbp> always telling on you
15:22:23 <sbp> <HorseHater> I took a photo of a polar bear eating a horse's head.
15:22:27 <nslater> how old r u? 87? every1 on the internet spells hate with an 8!!! grow up and FUCK YOU!!!!!
15:22:31 <sbp> <Policeman> aight, imma tellin' on u
15:22:35 <nslater> lol
15:25:05 <sbp> Memory, a wan misery-Eyed Female
15:25:21 <sbp> still gazing with snatches of the eye at present forms to annihilate the one thought into which her Being had been absorbed—
15:25:34 <sbp> & every form recalled & refixed—
15:25:42 <sbp> In the effort it seemed to be fluttering off—
15:25:51 <sbp> the moment the present form had been seen, it returned—
15:26:15 <sbp> She fed on bitter fruits from the Tree of Life—& often she attempted to tear off from her forehead a seal, which Eternity had placed there;
15:26:30 <sbp> and instantly she found in her Hand a hideous phantom of her own visage, with that seal on its forehead;
15:26:48 <sbp> and as she stood horror-struck beholding the phantom-head so wan & supernatural,
15:27:05 <sbp> which she seemed to hold before her eyes with right hand too *numb* to feel or be felt/
15:27:27 <sbp> itself belonging to the eye alone, & like a <distant> rock in a rain-mist, distinguishable by one shade only of substance.
15:27:48 <sbp> (i.e. the vision enriched by subconsciousness of palpability by influent recollections of Touch)
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15:35:01 <sbp> (— S.T.C., CN 2915, circa November 1806)
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16:11:17 <Monty> bah, it's jlaiv again
16:14:27 <nslater> .title http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/05/exclusive-video.html
16:14:27 <phenny> nslater: Exclusive Video: Babbage's Mechanical Calculator Comes to Life | Gadget Lab from Wired.com
16:14:34 <nslater> they built the worlds first babage engine
16:17:22 <Arnia> NMSI doesn't count?
16:20:04 <nslater> NMSI?
16:20:35 <nslater> they have a babbage engine? the news report clearly labels this as a world first
16:22:38 <clsn> I saw one in London more than 10 years ago I thought.
16:22:51 <nslater> fully oporational?
16:23:08 <clsn> I think it was *mostly* there... I think it didn't have the printer module.
16:24:30 <clsn> The relevant question, though, is in the comments: can it run Doom?
16:30:14 <Arnia> National Museums of Science and Industry, aka 'The Science Museum'
16:30:36 <sbp> hehe
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16:30:54 <sbp> you said that with the same tone, I presume, as an architect friend of mine says “The Gherkin”
16:30:57 <clsn> That's the one I think.
16:31:10 <sbp> (for the Swiss Re building)
16:31:18 <clsn> Where I saw it. The Science Museum. In that big town you people have,
16:31:28 <sbp> .gc frustrilation
16:31:29 <phenny> frustrilation: 0
16:31:49 <sbp> .gc +"vice versâ"
16:31:49 <Monty> since I believe Australia has issues with getting a horse with nubile virgins are so people have it... Anyone who wish to have the ones with getting non religious curriculum.
16:31:49 <phenny> +"vice versâ": 27,100,000
16:31:55 <sbp> .gc +"vice versa"
16:31:56 <phenny> +"vice versa": 27,000,000
16:32:00 <sbp> ...
16:32:06 <sbp> .gc +versâ
16:32:07 <phenny> +versâ: 24,000
16:32:12 <sbp> .gc versa
16:32:12 <phenny> versa: 35,800,000
16:32:19 <clsn> .gc pyBlazon
16:32:19 <phenny> pyBlazon: 286
16:32:25 <clsn> woo.
16:33:09 <clsn> Babbage Engine: serious steampunk.
16:33:43 <clsn> Steampunk: imagine what Sherlock Holmes' laptop would look like.
16:37:11 <deltab> http://www.datamancer.net/steampunklaptop/steampunklaptop.htm
16:38:28 <clsn> prezactly.
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17:00:48 <clsn> .gc prezactly
17:00:49 <phenny> prezactly: 3,610
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20:41:36 <thelsdj> hahaha: http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=711
20:47:10 <Monty> it's used this company you don't like fun...
20:52:04 <deltab> what triggered Monty?
20:52:04 <Monty> Have you asked such questions before ?
20:52:16 <deltab> Monty: maybe
20:52:16 <Monty> You don't seem quite certain.
20:52:21 <sbp> he goes off at random sometimes now too
20:52:31 <deltab> ah
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21:59:26 <Monty> hey Arnia
21:59:32 <clsn> ok. ponoko.com has definite potential for a tinkerer like me to create random neeto physical objects.. Now to decide what to design...
22:00:04 <clsn> Like a cafepress for lasercut stuff.
22:16:15 <clsn> Spam header: "free craps". Wow, some people have to PAY to take a crap?
22:24:44 <Arnia> clsn: shame they don't have metal cutting/pinching facilities
22:25:13 <clsn> And apparently they don't do anything but cut stuff... Which is okay, though then you have to put in more work to make anything useful.
22:25:23 * Arnia wonders if anyone will take up the mantel of injection molding
22:25:25 <clsn> Still, there'll come a time when I think of something I need from that....
22:25:37 <clsn> There are places that do 3D printing I think.
22:25:42 <Arnia> clsn: still a useful facility to have
22:26:04 * clsn could make Klingon/Hebrew/Samaritan-Hebrew/etc jewelry...
22:26:29 <clsn> Some of the stuff in the "On Show" area (not for sale) look clever.
22:28:47 <Arnia> hm... http://www.desktopfactory.com/
22:28:51 <Arnia> .title
22:28:52 <phenny> Arnia: Desktop Factory: 3D Printers
22:28:54 <clsn> Something like http://www.ponoko.com/showroom/IgorKnez/twirl-pattern-jewl-1036 is close to the wonderful goalof writing the other way.
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22:32:39 <clsn> There was an open-source(!) 3D printer project in the works I think. Even fairly accessible hardware.
22:34:06 <Arnia> reprap
22:34:20 <Arnia> finish isn't as good as these
22:34:45 <Arnia> Probably costs about the same to make in terms of time and components too
22:34:55 <Arnia> maybe a bit less
22:35:11 <clsn> There needs to be a cafepress-like place where you can upload and create your 3D-printed objects on-demand for no upfront cost.
22:35:44 <Arnia> I think that would be rather tricky
22:36:04 <lordi> ...and then there needs to be a section on torrent sites for printable 3D objects
22:36:18 <clsn> Arnia: why trickier than ponoko?
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22:36:52 <Arnia> clsn: because you'd need to give them instructions for assemblage
22:37:06 <Arnia> clsn: which could be mantime intensive, not to mention scaling poorly
22:37:38 <clsn> Not necessarily. It could be someplace that just sends you printed materials. Ponoko sends you raw stuff that's cut. <Hypothetical place> sends you raw stuff 3D printed to spec.
22:37:42 <clsn> Assembly is your problem.
22:38:39 <Arnia> Hm.
22:38:52 <Arnia> Ok, got confused about what you were talking about :)
22:39:37 <clsn> Fair enough.
22:39:45 <clsn> I bet there already is such a place.
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22:47:22 * clsn thinks he could design a heraldry kit (cut-out shield, ordinaries that fit into place...) Probably not worth it though.
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23:13:06 <Arnia> Strangeness: http://www.eyetap.org/
23:16:37 <kpreid> clsn: I'm pretty sure there are such places already
23:16:57 <clsn> That's what I said.
23:17:23 <kpreid> No, I understand you to mean you *expect* there are places
23:17:50 <kpreid> I say I remember hearing about one. %0.9 %0.7%
23:21:31 <kpreid> Arnia: Ah, I found that once myself as 'What Steve Mann's working on now'
23:22:37 <kpreid> RepRap is turning out directly useful objects now
23:22:56 <kpreid> or rather, some people have taken time to do so, rather than dev work
23:23:14 <Arnia> kpreid: Have you started using NAL truth values in casual conversation?
23:24:09 <kpreid> Re Ponoko and assembly: it seems to me that their business model is that only the machine does stuff specific to your design. No non-generic human involvement
23:26:42 <Arnia> http://www.eyetap.org/research/medr/rwm.html
23:26:45 <Arnia> .title
23:26:45 <phenny> Arnia: EyeTap Personal Imaging Lab
23:27:05 <kpreid> ook
23:28:00 * kpreid (grumbles at Apple and/or the videos' author, as appropriate)
23:28:28 <Arnia> I'm taking a couple of hours break from writing OpenNARS to think about pervasive information displays
23:29:17 <kpreid> those demo videos seem a little too good to be true
23:29:28 <Arnia> yeah
23:29:31 <kpreid> owait, it says 'interpolate'
23:29:40 <Arnia> hm?
23:29:44 <kpreid> ok, I bet those were human placed
23:30:16 <kpreid> that is, the software did only the overlaying over multiple frames; humans specified coordinates
23:30:41 <Arnia> They have a tracking system demo
23:30:47 <Arnia> http://openvidia.org/featurenumbering.mpg
23:31:47 <kpreid> ok, scratch that, that's pretty good.
23:31:53 <kpreid> tho the visualization could be better
23:32:26 <Arnia> Yeah. I don't think clarity of visualisation was the intent of the demo. They probably just threw it together at the last minute to show someone and then decided it would look good online
23:32:28 <kpreid> (you have to stare at one number to see if it's being good in that position...better would be somethin such that you see large changes when it's inconsistent
23:32:42 <kpreid> naw, I bet that's what they use for dev work
23:32:54 <kpreid> it's perfectly fine if you want to look at particular cases
23:33:05 <kpreid> it just doesn't visualize the overall stability
23:33:48 <Arnia> And for LSD without the drugs: http://www.eyetap.org/research/medr/mrv/index.html
23:34:30 <Arnia> "Some examples of mediated reality currently being developed include advertisement replacement or filtering (visual 'spam' filters), or computer assisted construction where the computer presents visual cues to aid the user in construction tasks." — ibid
23:34:40 <Arnia> I'd quite like to try an EyeTap
23:36:22 <Arnia> Scratch that, I'd quite like to have one. I can imagine using it for lectures; bring my speaker notes up, together with an overall running order and any data. Chorded keyboard or one of those EEG control devices with Dasher... be quite nice
23:37:04 <kpreid> Arnia: Is it just me or is the text on http://www.eyetap.org/research/comparametrics.html kind of kooky sounding?
23:37:20 <kpreid> Not that I really doubt it has something worthwhile to say; it just sounds funny
23:38:12 <Arnia> Sounds very kooky
23:38:43 <Arnia> Could do with some work to come across as sane and coherent
23:38:57 <kpreid> The example image is interesting, though
23:39:11 <Arnia> Yeah. As an image enhancement technology it looks good
23:39:23 <Arnia> Especially if it is integrated with a system like they suggest
23:39:35 <kpreid> What it strikes me as -
23:39:45 <kpreid> -and this may be me reading related stuff into it-
23:40:01 <kpreid> -is it's like *looking at* something
23:40:21 <kpreid> Color-wise, it is locally consistent rather than globally consistent
23:40:31 <kpreid> It shows the features and not the incidentals
23:41:19 <kpreid> (On the other hand, it discards shading which is usable as depth information)
23:41:43 <kpreid> So it looks flat, but has great text and consistency across a wide brightness range
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23:51:38 <kpreid> .gc "self phone"
23:51:39 <phenny> "self phone": 13,200
23:51:53 <kpreid> .gc "sell phone"
23:51:53 <phenny> "sell phone": 147,000
23:52:05 <kpreid> .gc "sellphone"
23:52:06 <phenny> "sellphone": 8,790
23:52:10 <kpreid> .gc "selfphone"
23:52:11 <phenny> "selfphone": 1,400
23:52:14 <kpreid> .gc "selfhone"
23:52:15 <phenny> "selfhone": 11
23:52:18 <kpreid> .gc "selfone"
23:52:19 <phenny> "selfone": 33,300
23:52:25 <kpreid> .gc "otherphone"
23:52:26 <phenny> "otherphone": 7,560
23:53:15 <Arnia> bananaphone?
23:54:25 <Arnia> .title http://www.popgadget.net/2007/06/warn_me_if_im_b.php
23:54:29 <phenny> Arnia: Popgadget Personal Technology for Women: Warn me if I'm boring
23:54:38 <kpreid> the thing about the EyeTap thing is, I can't tell how much they've actually built
23:55:20 <Arnia> No. The photo on the Wikipedia article makes it look either very scary, or very cool
23:56:40 <kpreid> http://www.eyetap.org/research/wearables/wearcomp/wristcam/ has at least three kook-points...
23:58:27 <Arnia> .title http://inventorspot.com/teleglass_t3-f_video_eyeglasses_HMD_Japan
23:58:29 <kpreid> all of roughly the form "use a silly term and promptly define it"
23:58:30 <phenny> Arnia: Teleglass T3-F Video Eyeglasses Give HMDs Street Cred
23:59:11 <kpreid> hah!
23:59:17 <kpreid> from that article: "As for the still somewhat robotic appearance of a device sprouting from an eyeglass lens, if we got used to Bluetooth receivers, we can get used to anything."
