2008-05-10 Swhack IRC Log

00:00:00 <shriphani__> hmm...
00:00:06 <shriphani__> how do i start ?
00:00:07 <_bjoern> what happens if you go to http://64.233.183.147/ ?
00:01:41 <shriphani__> google...
00:01:44 <shriphani__> it opens
00:01:53 <shriphani__> so there
00:02:00 <_bjoern> that suggests you have a dns or proxy problem.
00:02:02 <shriphani__> s something wrong with my DNS?
00:02:17 <_bjoern> what's your operating system?
00:02:38 <shriphani__> debian
00:02:40 <_bjoern> You should open a terminal window and check what www.google.com resolves to, or whatever you are using.
00:02:52 <_bjoern> then try `host www.google.com`
00:03:34 <_bjoern> phenny, tell sbp http://www.fukung.net/v/8024/ef4a4ecade7f3a7eed171ec95dbd1c5d.jpg
00:03:34 <phenny> _bjoern: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
00:03:37 <shriphani__> www.google.com is an alias for www.l.google.com.
00:03:37 <shriphani__> www.l.google.com has address 209.85.153.104
00:03:58 <_bjoern> what happens for `ping 209...` with the address above?
00:04:08 <_bjoern> what if you open the address in the web browser?
00:04:35 <_bjoern> Did you try a different web browser, like lynx or w3m or wget or ...
00:04:48 <shriphani__> i tried epiphany.
00:05:03 <_bjoern> in addition to whatever you use normally?
00:05:07 <shriphani__> yup
00:05:12 <_bjoern> neither worked?
00:05:22 <shriphani__> i use iceweasel normally, i tried epiphany and neither worked.
00:07:03 <shriphani__> when i ping 209.#### it is stuck at Ping 54 Bytes of data
00:07:24 <shriphani__> and opera can't open any of google's services either.
00:08:12 <_bjoern> `traceroute 209...`?
00:09:13 <shriphani__> actually one of the IP adds returned by host gmail.com takes me to google.com
00:09:42 <_bjoern> That's nothing to worry about, virtual host oddities.
00:10:15 <_bjoern> 209.85.153.104 apparently belongs to google and I can reach it from here though it's > 400ms
00:10:39 <_bjoern> So this seems to be a routing problem
00:10:44 <shriphani__> hmm..
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00:11:12 <shriphani__> so i should use tor ?
00:12:20 <_bjoern> There are too many variables for me to answer that
00:12:49 <_bjoern> note for example that tor exit nodes can read all your data, so they could sniff out passwords unless they are secured in a special way.
00:13:07 <_bjoern> so if you want to log into google to check out some private date, using tor might be a bad idea.
00:13:34 <_bjoern> Yessas! http://www.fukung.net/v/4053/SNES%20Porn.jpg
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00:41:57 <Arnia> http://www.apple.com/webapps/productivity/itwatiddlywikiforiphone.html
00:42:05 <Arnia> Unfortunate really...
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00:45:14 <kpreid> Arnia: ?
00:46:14 <Arnia> iTWATiddlyWikiForiPhone
00:46:32 <Arnia> Note letters two to five inclusive
00:53:20 <kpreid> oh.
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02:11:53 <Monty> hi dmiles_afk, how ya doing?
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07:16:56 <thelsdj> http://www.explosm.net/comics/1273/
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07:46:05 <cre8radix> yo
07:50:17 <thelsdj> slawp?
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08:35:47 <cre8radix> thelsdj: :D
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09:40:43 <sbp> yo
09:42:02 <pwaring> morning
09:48:31 <sbp> gutenmoin pwaring
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10:20:43 <sbp> thelsdj: so who's your favourite of the explosm writers?
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10:36:08 <cre8radix> re:hi
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10:48:08 <Monty> welcome, _bjoern
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11:43:09 <_bjoern> lo Monty.
11:43:10 <phenny> _bjoern: 10:25Z <sbp> tell _bjoern Picture 1) ehheh. Picture 2) NU
11:43:10 <phenny> _bjoern: 10:25Z <sbp> tell _bjoern ROGUE BLIMP
11:43:15 <Monty> fingers crossed that direction, which he confessed to taste of british myself... tarek likes you.
11:43:21 <_bjoern> omg
11:48:44 * _bjoern chuckles at http://www.madcowprod.com/05072008.html
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11:52:33 <sbp> YO
11:52:37 <sbp> “Aviation officials in Venezuela predictably preferred to dwell on why U.S. authorities should be investigating how convicted felon Donadi got a pilot’s license in the U.S. from the FAA.”
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12:05:15 <Arnia> .title http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7392324.stm
12:05:16 <phenny> Arnia: BBC NEWS | Magazine | A little dash of panic
12:05:36 <Arnia> I'd forgotten about Ralph
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12:10:36 <_bjoern> "John McCain claims that if elected he would save taxpayers millions by eliminating the Secret Service and defending himself instead."
12:11:16 <Arnia> ?
12:12:05 <Arnia> http://www.archive.org/details/pedestrian_crossing_TNA
12:12:07 <_bjoern> I like their WFTWH theme http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/number_of_acceptable_things
12:14:02 <_bjoern> http://imagec08.247realmedia.com/RealMedia/ads/Creatives/TheOnion/WFTWH_Onion_House_300x600/Store_DH_300x600atlasInd_0508.jpg
12:14:30 <sbp> “For girls, contact with boys could lead to drink, pregnancy and an early death”
12:14:45 <_bjoern> sounds like fun to me
12:15:22 <sbp> “As early as the 1940s these 10-15 minute melodramas condensed and simplified complex social problems and wrapped them up with brazen scare tactics, to warn against drugs, dangerous driving, strangers and even homosexuals.”
12:15:25 <sbp> even homosexuals!!!
12:15:50 <sbp> see, I'd just warn people about people
12:15:55 <sbp> and tigers
12:16:19 <_bjoern> "Click on the Onion pins scattered around the globe to reveal mind-expanding factoids about the lesser, conquerable nations of the Earth. Come back each week to learn more about how little you know."
12:16:26 <sbp> “A single marijuana joint would soon lead to heroin”
12:17:07 <xover> Ah, so that's where the War on Drugs gets its information from.
12:17:29 <xover> Hmm, actually, the timing kind of fits, doesn't it?
12:17:51 <_bjoern> http://imagec08.247realmedia.com/RealMedia/ads/Creatives/TheOnion/175320_1_simpleshoes_250_ROS/Simple_Apr_300x250.jpg
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12:19:20 <Arnia> Right. Transfer to Brooks again I think
12:20:12 <Arnia> My territory in Durham is a triangle extending from the Science Site, to 12 South Bailey, to Brooks House. That's rather sad...
12:20:30 <_bjoern> .title http://www.theonion.com/content/news/nasa_intern_hoping_to_go_on_space
12:20:30 <phenny> _bjoern: NASA Intern Hoping To Go On Space Walk Before He Leaves In June | The Onion - America's Finest News Source
12:20:34 <sbp> “researchers have found that the platypus DNA is an equally cobbled-together array of bird, reptile and mammalian lineages”
12:20:46 <sbp> see http://news.google.com/news?q=Platypus%20DNA&ie=UTF-8
12:20:48 <Arnia> sbp: yeah... have you read the nature article?
12:20:53 <_bjoern> It was a wild party I take it then.
12:20:58 <sbp> Arnia: nopes
12:21:07 <Arnia> sbp: fascinating... especially the ten sex chromosomes bit
12:21:20 <sbp> ten sex chromosomes?
12:21:34 <Arnia> yeah
12:21:52 <sbp> argh, Firefox has gone AWOL again
12:22:00 <sbp> they really need to bring another beta out soon
12:22:46 <sbp> huh, looks like that's an old discovery
12:22:48 <sbp> “In 2004, researchers at the Australian National University discovered the Platypus has ten sex chromosomes, compared with two (XY) in most other mammals (for instance, a male Platypus is always XYXYXYXYXY).”
12:22:54 <Arnia> Is your one getting worn out?
12:22:56 <sbp> XYXYXYXYXY!
12:23:00 <sbp> yeah, apparently
12:23:08 <sbp> sometimes the address bar doesn't respond
12:23:14 <sbp> I put in links and press enter and nothing
12:23:18 <Arnia> sbp: I know it is old, but I didn't know about it until I read the Nature article :)
12:23:30 <Arnia> It started me Tafting on genetics again
12:24:11 <sbp> .title http://www.technologyreview.com/Infotech/20569/?a=f
12:24:12 <phenny> sbp: Technology Review: Where Are They?
12:24:22 <sbp> - I got pointed to that earlier, about not wanting to find alien life
12:24:28 <sbp> quite interesting, if simplistic
12:28:07 * Arnia shoves the author into a helical dust cloud structure
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12:46:55 <sbp> phenny: tell _bjoern http://www.explosm.net/comics/1035/
12:46:55 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when _bjoern is around.
12:47:24 <_bjoern> pwn
12:47:24 <phenny> _bjoern: 13:31Z <sbp> tell _bjoern http://www.explosm.net/comics/1035/
12:47:59 <_bjoern> hmm http://content.yieldmanager.edgesuite.net/atoms/2e/ec/2eec7d9dce524fd53225979a315bf7ff.jpg
12:48:30 <_bjoern> hmm http://content.yieldmanager.edgesuite.net/atoms/2c/85/2c85cc3b5ede30fc3437d429a3cb257e.jpg
12:49:08 <_bjoern> http://www.snorgtees.com/images/ItsOkayPluto_Fullpic_1.gif
12:56:20 <_bjoern> .gc "Strangers Have the Best Candy"
12:56:21 <phenny> "Strangers Have the Best Candy": 18,900
12:56:28 <_bjoern> .gs Strangers Have the Best *
12:56:29 <phenny> Strangers Have the Best *: candy (90), sweeties (3), lollies (3), sweets (2)
12:56:33 <_bjoern> .gs Strangers Give the Best *
12:56:34 <phenny> Strangers Give the Best *: candy (25), kind (2)
12:57:21 <_bjoern> .gc "Wish you were beer"
12:57:22 <phenny> "Wish you were beer": 29,600
12:58:01 <_bjoern> .gc "I can has catz?"
12:58:01 <phenny> "I can has catz?": 305
12:58:17 <_bjoern> (http://www.snorgtees.com/icanhascatz-p-494.html?osCsid=4ab61155798015a0fe1b007e95f9fd47)
13:00:29 <sbp> yes, the adverts are almost as good as the comics
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13:03:34 <Monty> lo ja
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13:36:08 <nslater> sbp: I read this and thought of you, which I am hoping means you might like it: http://www.thenameinspector.com/verb-for-shoe/
13:41:05 <sbp> no, but only because of historical accident
13:41:12 <nslater> hmm?
13:41:18 <sbp> I made a conlang once which had a complex system of grammatical categorisation
13:41:40 <sbp> and I got so pissed off with it in the end that any time I think about whether something is a verb or a noun I start making this noise: gnuururRRRrrrrr
13:41:50 * nslater smiles
13:42:16 <sbp> actually the thing that started me off was colour
13:42:23 <sbp> whether grey is an adjective or a noun
13:42:39 <aspect> it's both, surely
13:42:41 <sbp> I decided eventually that a) it was radial, much more so than is normally represented in grammar books, and b) I didn't care
13:42:42 <nslater> it depends on it's use, right? concept or description
13:42:54 <sbp> yes, and yes
13:42:56 <aspect> radial?
13:43:09 <sbp> aspect: as in, they're not just discrete categories
13:43:09 * Arnia throws Radical Construction Grammar at nslater and aspect
13:43:17 <Arnia> Non-classical I'd say :)
13:43:25 <sbp> some adjectives are more adjectival than others
13:43:32 <aspect> there was a c missing? That makes more sense :-)
13:43:32 <sbp> thanks, I'll keep that in mind
13:43:44 <sbp> no, radial
13:43:50 <Arnia> As in they radiate
13:43:57 <Arnia> Around a point (or points)
13:44:07 <aspect> ok, I gotcha .. sort of a vector of meaning
13:44:16 <Arnia> no... not exactly
13:44:22 <Arnia> .wik radial categorisation
13:44:23 <phenny> "Cognitive semantics is part of the cognitive linguistics movement." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_semantics
13:44:36 <Arnia> I'd say it was more the other way round personally...
13:44:50 <Arnia> oh, misread semantics as science
13:45:04 <Arnia> I think I need to go outside and get some air
13:45:26 <Arnia> (there are lots of hungover rahs sitting to my right)
13:45:31 <sbp> the thing I was annoyed about is that I'd duped myself into thinking classically, when I thought I was reasonably immune from it
13:45:33 <nslater> hehe
13:45:56 <sbp> air: it's bleedin' hot today
13:46:20 <aspect> oh, I see. that's a whole can of worms in itself. I'd best get back to writing :-).
13:47:52 <sbp> check this out:
13:47:54 <sbp> .title http://members.bellatlantic.net/~lilbun/ts/catdance.html
13:47:54 <phenny> sbp: cat dancing
13:48:43 <sbp> it'd be interesting to see what Busch and Burton's source is
13:49:51 <sbp> the OED says, for spoon: 7. slang or colloq. A shallow, simple, or foolish person; a simpleton, ninny, goose.
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13:49:58 <nslater> why does this exist: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unicode_characters
13:50:00 <sbp> earliest date is 1799
13:50:12 <sbp> because someone created it
13:50:22 <sbp> <nslater> ah, but why did they create it?
13:50:25 <nslater> why has someone not nominated it for deletion
13:50:28 <sbp> because they have batdroppings for brains
13:50:51 <nslater> I might start http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_hairs_on_Noah_Slater's_head
13:51:04 <sbp> anyway, I guess you saw that article of 10 stupidest Wikipedia entries
13:51:10 <sbp> the Anna Kournikova joke is awesome
13:51:11 <nslater> it think it would be a) more useful and b) shorter
13:51:17 <nslater> yeah, via Morbus
13:51:25 <sbp> :-)
13:51:45 <sbp> for reference: “1799 Carlton Ho. Mag. 217 The spoons or novices are permitted from prudential motives to be successful at the commencement.”
13:51:46 <nslater> "Unicode is a language, so putting every single character in this entry is basically like pasting the entire Oxford English dictionary into the entry for English." hah
13:52:25 <Arnia> aspect: well, it isn't that much of a can of worms. The meat of the matter is fairly settled; humans categorise radially according to distance of an item from a set of exemplars (extension, in logic) and prototypes (intension, in logic)
13:52:49 <Arnia> aspect: the issues are more to do with how to model this
13:52:56 <sbp> hmm. it doesn't record maid for dish
13:53:07 <sbp> bu it does have “2. a. The food ready for eating served on or contained in a dish; a distinct article or variety of food. transf. and fig.: spec., an attractive person, esp. a woman (now only in informal use).”
13:53:11 <sbp> unicode is a language?
13:53:26 <Arnia> aspect: My favoured approaches are non-classical term logics, like NAL, although that's a bit of an oversimplification
13:53:44 <Arnia> sbp: if the set of all bricks in the world is a language, then yes unicode is a language
13:54:19 <Arnia> (and the antecedent of that conditional is correct)
13:54:50 <sbp> ah, it appears to be a satirical work
13:54:54 <sbp> (Busch and Burton)
13:55:11 <sbp> .wik Language
13:55:12 <phenny> "A language is a system of visual, auditory, or tactile symbols of communication and the rules used to manipulate them." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language
13:55:35 <Arnia> Slightly extended by Tarski to include anything (really)
13:55:53 * sbp appeals to the OED for a common-sense definition
13:56:03 * Arnia is going all arch-semanticist
13:56:20 * sbp usually says “natural language” to distinguish from programming languages though, at least
13:56:37 <Arnia> Well, the external world is a language according to Tarski
13:56:40 <sbp> hehe: language, n. (and int.)
13:56:42 <sbp> language!
13:56:47 <sbp> [watch your] language!
13:57:10 <Arnia> (the co-domain of an interpretation is a language)
13:57:16 <sbp> aww yeah: “b. The vocal sounds by which mammals and birds communicate; (in extended use) any other signals used by animals to communicate.”
13:57:25 <selggig> sbp, natural? even though it has to be learned?
13:57:29 <sbp> Tarski's wrong. if a bat or a hen don't do it, then NIH-NOR
13:57:51 <sbp> selggig: as opposed to mechanical, I suppose the idea goes
13:58:03 <selggig> ok then
13:58:11 <sbp> iuno for sure
13:58:28 <Arnia> Natural, as in it arises from nature without explicit creation
13:58:38 <Arnia> (by human will)
13:59:22 <selggig> I wonder what language they'd come up with if a population was isolated and never taught to "speak"
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14:00:11 <sbp> “Studies on starling vocalizations have also suggested that they may have recursive structures”
14:00:15 <Arnia> selggig: language automatically arises
14:00:28 <Arnia> selggig: one of the strangest things about it...
14:00:38 <selggig> I'd assume it would, but what would it be for them?
14:00:48 <nslater> grunts, cooing?
14:00:54 <Arnia> language...
14:01:04 <Arnia> nslater: probably more babbling
14:01:20 <Arnia> nslater: in terms of sound... slightly vowel heavy
14:01:27 <Arnia> (at least if you believe Tomasello)
14:01:30 <nslater> i read about those kids kept in the basement of that guys house, they had developed a language using grunts and cooing, which i found rather interesting
14:01:54 <sbp> like The Beatles
14:02:10 <nslater> its in the wikipedia article, but i dont remember the guys name, its been all over the news recently
14:02:15 <selggig> would they teach their language to their children?
14:02:30 <nslater> selggig: for small values of teach, as in, i doubt it would be explicit
14:02:53 <nslater> just like we dont, really, children learn it naturally
14:02:59 <selggig> no, not those from the basement, from my virtual population
14:03:19 <nslater> sure, same applies, language is picked up through nessesity
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14:15:50 <Arnia> Well, it is picked up through the nature of cognition
14:16:10 <Arnia> But it isn't taught
14:16:34 <Arnia> (or rather, it isn't taught *successfully*; at least not L1)
14:16:43 <selggig> L1?
14:16:51 <Arnia> First language
14:16:57 <selggig> oh
14:17:44 <Arnia> L2 is a bit different in nature, hence why it is affected differently by things like trauma and alcohol
14:18:44 <selggig> I don't understand
14:18:54 <Arnia> What don't you understand?
14:19:15 <selggig> L2 I guess
14:19:58 <Arnia> Well, second language is acquired differently and seems to be fixed differently in the mind
14:20:14 <selggig> not ingrained as well as L1?
14:20:27 <Arnia> No, it is just stored very differently
14:20:40 <Arnia> At least it seems to be
14:21:34 <Arnia> It is a commonly reported thing (warning, anecdotal evidence from multiple-language speakers and linguists here) that when one gets drunk, L1 fails before L2.
14:21:58 <Arnia> I myself have occasionally found myself unable to speak in English, but still able to do so in German.
14:22:01 <selggig> really, I'd have thought the other way
14:22:33 <Arnia> selggig: well, that's the point. It isn't about ingrainedness, but rather something different in how they are stored
14:22:59 <selggig> huh, weird
14:23:40 <aspect> .ety church
14:23:41 <phenny> "O.E. cirice 'church,' from W.Gmc. *kirika, from Gk. kyriake (oikia) 'Lord's (house),' from kyrios 'ruler, lord.' For vowel evolution, see bury." - http://etymonline.com/?term=church
14:28:16 <xover> .title http://kernelslacker.livejournal.com/120586.html
14:28:17 <phenny> xover: Dave Jones recollection of stuff that happened. - OSX fail.
14:28:38 <xover> Yes, I certainly do detect massive amounts of fail in the vicinity.
14:38:30 <sbp> “As part of a language deprivation experiment, James sent two children to be raised by a mute woman in a specially-constructed cabin, to determine if language was learned or innate. Since neither child ever spoke, he determined that language must be learned.” - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_V_of_Scotland
14:39:44 <xover> I wonder whether to be more outraged by the conclusion, or the way he conducted the experiment.
14:40:34 <xover> Hmm. Why did Freenode just tell me to register my nick for privmsg to work?
14:41:16 <jsled> cause you're not +i ?
14:42:13 <xover> But I wasn't sending a privmsg?
14:43:33 <xover> Strange.
14:48:35 <selggig> sbp, but did they not speak because she didn't?
14:52:19 <sbp> well the punchline is that on another Wikipedia entry it says they ended up speaking Hebrew
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15:25:38 <_bjoern> orly http://ece.uprm.edu/~andre/insert/gmail.html
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15:56:24 <mahound> "omitted as a courtesy to google"
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15:58:24 <Monty> howdy, nsh
15:58:31 <mahound> why not "please do not sue our arses"
15:59:05 <TedThibodeauJr> xover - someone may have been trying to send *you* a privmsg
16:08:41 <sbp> Monty: remind me in 5 minutes to watch the Simpsons. deltab too ought be reminded to watch the Simpsons
16:08:41 <Monty> sbp: Okay, I'll remind you about that on Sat May 10 17:59:47 BST 2008
16:09:22 <_bjoern> Here Homer lost his license and walks everywhere now.
16:09:57 <sbp> not seen that, unless it's the New York one
16:10:28 <sbp> but he loses his car in that, not his license
16:10:36 <sbp> .ety karaoke
16:10:37 <phenny> "1979, from Japanese, from kara 'empty' + oke 'orchestra,' shortened form of okesutora, a Japanization of Eng. orchestra." - http://etymonline.com/?term=karaoke
16:10:43 <_bjoern> .g shoes have to be so ugly because
16:10:44 <phenny> _bjoern: http://www.youqa.com/generic-health-4/3540-11-youqa.html
16:10:47 <_bjoern> .title
16:10:51 <phenny> _bjoern: Why are bowling shoes so ugly?
16:10:58 <_bjoern> .g most shoes have to be so ugly because
16:10:59 <phenny> _bjoern: http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-269775.html
16:11:01 <_bjoern> .title
16:11:02 <phenny> _bjoern: Why Are Cycling Shoes So Ugly?
16:11:27 <_bjoern> .gs why are * shoes so ugly
16:11:27 <phenny> why are * shoes so ugly: bowling (5), running (4), the (2), rented bowling (2), k-swiss (2), cycling (2), athletic (2)
16:11:32 <sbp> it's too hot
16:11:37 <sbp> take some of our heat away, _bjoern
16:11:43 <sbp> I don't want it all
16:11:49 <sbp> just leave us with 10C and I'll be happy
16:11:52 <_bjoern> .weather edfm
16:11:56 <phenny> Clear ☼, 25℃, 1016mb, Moderate breeze 24km/h (13kt) (↑) - EDFM 18:50, 1650Z
16:12:00 <_bjoern> .weather egll
16:12:02 <phenny> Clear ☼, 25℃, 1016mb, Light breeze 4kt (↑) - EGLL 17:50, 1650Z
16:12:33 <_bjoern> I don't think I'd enjoy 40℃
16:12:48 <_bjoern> At least not without suitable shoes.
16:13:55 <Monty> sbp: You asked me to remind you to watch the Simpsons. deltab too ought be reminded to watch the Simpsons
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16:17:38 <_bjoern> "Dude. Meet me in Montana. Jesus."
16:18:01 <nsh> .gs meet me in *
16:18:02 <phenny> nsh: 09 May 16:41Z <sbp> tell nsh wow, read http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Aromaticity&oldid=211089924#History from paragraph five (“In fact, this concept can be traced further back”) onwards. awesome
16:18:04 <phenny> meet me in *: montauk (14), outer (6), cyberspace (6), outerspace (5), margaritaville (5), heaven (5), st (4), saigon (4), missoula (4), the (3), rosetime (3)
16:18:27 * nsh checks up, yo's
16:19:00 *** BigJibby (n=matt@142.46.8.22) has joined #swhack
16:19:01 <Monty> lo BigJibby
16:19:15 <BigJibby> heya Monty
16:19:18 <Monty> Hrm. Let's assume that fire engines is newsreader...?
16:19:44 <BigJibby> Monty: that's an alarming assumption
16:19:44 <Monty> t
16:20:38 <nsh> that's pretty damn é
16:21:23 <nsh> (the 'mense is implied)
16:22:47 <nsh> .g "meet me in rosetime"
16:22:48 <phenny> nsh: http://www.singers.com/barbershop/bluegrass.html
16:25:41 <nsh> man, chemistry is
16:25:43 <nsh> .ety arcane
16:25:44 <phenny> "1547, from L. arcanus 'secret, hidden,' from arcere 'close up,' from arca 'chest, box,' from PIE *ark- 'to hold, contain, guard' (cf. Gk. arkos 'defense,' Arm. argel 'obstacle,' Lith. raktas 'key,' rakinti 'to shut, lock')." - http://etymonline.com/?term=arcane
16:34:37 <nsh> .swhack moiety
16:34:40 <phenny> nsh: http://swhack.com/logs/2008-01-18#T11-50-52
16:35:48 <nsh> .gs a moiety *
16:35:48 <phenny> a moiety *: of (4), selected (3), thereof (2), is (2), derived (2), confers (2), competent (2), capable (2)
16:44:45 <nsh> [[[ Though resonance is often introduced in such a diagrammatic form in elementary chemistry, it actually has a deeper significance in the mathematical formalism of valence bond theory (VB). When a molecule cannot be represented by the standard tools of valence bond theory (promotion, hybridisation, orbital overlap, sigma and pi bond formation) because no single structure predicted by VB can account for all the properties of the molecule, one invokes the concept o
16:45:04 <nsh> weak
16:46:15 <nsh> (ftr: fuck elsevier)
16:48:29 <nsh> .wik ab initio quantum chemistry
16:48:30 <phenny> "Ab initio quantum chemistry methods are computational chemistry methods based on quantum chemistry.[1]| The term ab initio indicates that the calculation is from first principles and that no empirical data is used." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ab_initio_quantum_chemistry_methods
16:48:51 <nsh> damn you sbp
16:49:10 <nsh> i'll be in chemland all night now :-)
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17:32:16 <_bjoern> nu
17:37:48 <_bjoern> .gs nu *
17:37:49 <phenny> nu *: skin (3), sigma chapter (3), is (3), domain (3), är (2), traxx (2), fraternity (2), - the (2), - (2)
17:40:10 <_bjoern> "The governor of the Bank of Canada says he will take a tough stand with financial institutions that wind up near bankruptcy because of poor decisions." - http://thespec.com/News/Business/article/363032
17:55:23 *** cre8radix (n=cre8radi@p54BE5793.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #swhack
17:55:57 <cre8radix> heya sb
17:56:00 <cre8radix> p
17:57:05 <_bjoern> phenny, "SelbstBefriedigung"?
17:57:06 <phenny> _bjoern: "self satisfaction" (de)
17:57:11 <_bjoern> phenny, "SelbstBefriedung"?
17:57:12 <phenny> _bjoern: "self pacification" (de)
17:57:13 *** cre8radix is now known as cre8radix|street
17:58:05 <cre8radix|street> phenny: "Selbstbefreiung"?
17:58:06 <phenny> cre8radix|street: "self release" (de)
17:58:33 <_bjoern> phenny, "SelbstBereinigung"?
17:58:34 <phenny> _bjoern: "self clearing" (de)
17:58:43 <nsh> .ety well
17:58:45 <phenny> "'in a satisfactory manner,' O.E. wel, common Gmc. (cf. O.S. wela, O.N. vel, O.Fris. wel, Du. wel, O.H.G. wela, Ger. wohl, Goth. waila 'well'), from PIE *wel-, *wol- (cf. Skt. prati varam 'at will,' O.C.S. vole 'well,' Welsh gwell 'better,' L. velle 'to wish, will,' [...]" - http://etymonline.com/?term=well
18:39:09 <xover> .w cad
18:39:09 <phenny> cad n. 1: Someone who is morally reprehensible
18:39:11 <phenny> cad n. 2: Software used in art and architecture and engineering and manufacturing to assist in precision drawing.
18:39:19 <xover> .ety cad
18:39:20 <phenny> "1730, shortening of cadet (q.v.); originally used of servants, then (1831) of town boys by students at British universities and public schools (though at Cambridge it meant 'snob')." - http://etymonline.com/?term=cad
18:39:53 <cre8radix|street> space cads are aboard the c-base
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18:40:27 <nsh> heh
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18:59:24 <thelsdj> sbp: re: explosm writers, i really never pay attention to who the writer is, i guess if i did i might find that i like one more than the other, but haven't noticed
19:00:41 <nsh> .wik explosm
19:00:51 <thelsdj> .g explosm
19:00:51 <phenny> "Cyanide and Happiness is a webcomic hosted on Explosm.net and written by four authors." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explosm
19:00:52 <phenny> thelsdj: http://www.explosm.net/
19:01:02 <nsh> oh, cool
19:01:58 <nsh> thelsdj, i have to admit, i did not like (the half that i read of) All Seated on the Ground
19:02:08 <nsh> tres painful, tres
19:02:17 <thelsdj> should i have warned you it was a christmas story?
19:02:26 <thelsdj> its all about the reveal at the end
19:02:26 * nsh smiles
19:02:31 <nsh> i guessed so
19:02:55 <nsh> but i just couldn't handle the, well, womanlyness of it all
19:03:10 <thelsdj> ha
19:03:36 <_bjoern> .c 80 in hex
19:03:36 <phenny> 80 = 0x50
19:04:42 <thelsdj> guess you just can't account for taste, yours and mine
19:06:09 <nsh> aye :-)
19:06:36 <nsh> the exception that proves your recommendations rule
19:07:14 <thelsdj> http://flurb.net/
19:07:27 <_bjoern> s/yours and mine/bad and good/
19:07:39 <thelsdj> read: we're awake, lets talk; cathedrals; dmv
19:08:44 <nsh> nu
19:09:00 <thelsdj> dmv and we're awake, lets talk are both short and sweet, cathedrals is a bit longer
19:09:09 <nsh> cool
19:16:14 <nsh> .gc "diana scanlon"
19:16:15 <phenny> "diana scanlon": 134
19:17:56 <thelsdj> watching 2001 a space odyssey for the first time, i had recently read the novelization, but somehow managed to not see the movie
19:18:25 * nsh is in the same boat
19:18:44 <nsh> might purloin, now i think of it
20:03:37 <xover> 2001 is excellent, but it's showing its age.
20:03:43 <_bjoern> .c 20 in binary
20:03:43 <phenny> 20 = 0b10100
20:03:53 <_bjoern> .c 0b10000 in decimal
20:03:53 <phenny> 0b10000 = 16
20:04:31 <xover> I might entertain the idea of a remake, provided its only ambition was to update the visuals and everything else remained the same.
20:06:29 <nsh> mm
20:11:00 <thelsdj> well, you'd need to update the peoples additudes and clothings etc a bit too since thats showing its age
20:19:29 <sbp> thelsdj: yeah (explosm writers), I think I found more or less the same
20:19:39 <sbp> they all work pretty well together, so that it's almost seamless
20:20:06 <sbp> like you do recognise the difference between their styles, but not enough for it to be a "woah, that's another author" type thing. more like a variety of style
20:28:06 <sbp> .title http://flurb.net/
20:28:07 <phenny> sbp: FLURB, a Webzine of Astonishing Tales.
20:28:57 <thelsdj> sbp: thar be sci-fi here, move along
20:29:24 <_bjoern> Hmm XPath 2.0 for "all elements in node-set a but not in node-set b"?
20:29:33 <sbp> omg dragons
20:29:44 <sbp> ironically, since it's the opposite of dragons
20:30:11 <_bjoern> a except b, apparently
20:30:45 <thelsdj> .title http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wreP8FMupyM
20:30:46 <phenny> thelsdj: YouTube - BeatBearing demo
20:31:20 <_bjoern> so and how would I order them "child before parent"?
20:32:30 <deltab> _bjoern: A except B, A intersect B
20:32:51 <_bjoern> Yeah figured that out already
20:32:57 <deltab> oh right
20:35:26 *** SaschaRed (n=alex@68-187-80-127.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com) has joined #swhack
20:35:42 <SaschaRed> can someone give me some help with phenny
20:36:02 <SaschaRed> I was wondering what module gives phenny the hello function
20:47:23 <_bjoern> hi.py?
20:49:15 <SaschaRed> there isn't anything called that
20:49:26 <deltab> .hello
20:49:33 <deltab> the hello function?
20:49:33 <_bjoern> Which version are you using?
20:50:10 <SaschaRed> the latest
20:50:34 *** pockyBOT (n=pockyBOT@68-187-80-127.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com) has joined #swhack
20:50:43 <SaschaRed> here's what I am talking about
20:50:44 <_bjoern> Then try ping.py
20:50:47 <SaschaRed> hello pockyBOT
20:50:48 <pockyBOT> Hey SaschaRed!
20:51:13 <SaschaRed> thanks
20:51:23 <_bjoern> A grep would have told you... :)
20:51:31 <SaschaRed> yea
20:52:29 <SaschaRed> ok I have an odd question
20:52:35 <SaschaRed> I want to give it the ability to say what's up
20:52:43 <SaschaRed> but I can't use the '
20:52:52 <SaschaRed> greeting = random.choice(('Hi', 'Hey', 'Hello', 'what's up'))
20:52:52 <_bjoern> Why is that?
20:52:55 <SaschaRed> that doesn't work right
20:53:08 <SaschaRed> because the ' is used to seperate different greetings
20:53:25 <_bjoern> You have to escape it, use 'what\'s up'
20:53:44 <SaschaRed> ok I am new to python
20:53:52 <_bjoern> I noticed!
20:53:58 <SaschaRed> do I need to restart phenny to have the changes take effect
20:54:21 <_bjoern> pockyBOT, reload ping
20:54:45 <SaschaRed> hello pockyBOT
20:54:46 <pockyBOT> Hi SaschaRed
20:54:51 <SaschaRed> hello pockyBOT
20:54:52 <pockyBOT> Hi SaschaRed
20:54:55 <SaschaRed> dammit
20:55:00 <SaschaRed> the downside of random
20:55:03 <SaschaRed> hello pockyBOT
20:55:04 <_bjoern> Well it's ... right
20:55:04 <pockyBOT> Hey SaschaRed!
20:55:15 <SaschaRed> hello pockyBOT
20:55:17 <pockyBOT> Hello SaschaRed!
20:55:18 <_bjoern> pockyBOT: reload ping
20:55:25 <SaschaRed> dammit
20:55:27 <_bjoern> Guess your phenny does not like me
20:55:33 <_bjoern> go and restart.
20:55:34 <SaschaRed> .reload ping
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20:56:09 <_bjoern> pockyBOT: reload *
20:56:14 <SaschaRed> hello pockyBOT
20:56:15 <pockyBOT> Hello SaschaRed
20:56:18 <SaschaRed> dammit
20:56:21 <SaschaRed> hello pockyBOT
20:56:23 <pockyBOT> Hi SaschaRed
20:56:28 <SaschaRed> hello pockyBOT
20:56:29 <pockyBOT> Hi SaschaRed!
20:56:36 <_bjoern> You could strip all the other options...
20:56:39 <SaschaRed> *rips hair from head
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20:57:30 <SaschaRed> hello pockyBOT
20:57:31 <pockyBOT> Hi SaschaRed!
20:57:36 <SaschaRed> wtf?
20:57:44 <SaschaRed> i took out hi
20:57:50 <SaschaRed> oh shit I am stupid
20:57:52 <SaschaRed> wrong computer
20:58:02 <SaschaRed> I have been editing my laptop's copy of phenny
20:58:08 <SaschaRed> the bot is running on the server
20:58:13 <SaschaRed> somebody smack me
20:59:16 <SaschaRed> .reload ping
21:00:55 *** pockyBOT has quit (Remote closed the connection)
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21:02:06 <SaschaRed> hello pockyBOT
21:02:07 <pockyBOT> Hello SaschaRed
21:02:12 <SaschaRed> hello pockyBOT
21:02:13 <pockyBOT> what's up SaschaRed!
21:02:17 <SaschaRed> it works!
21:02:31 <SaschaRed> why is it putting a ! on the end
21:02:44 <SaschaRed> oh I see
21:03:47 * SaschaRed does a little dance
21:05:50 <SaschaRed> so what is the correct way to use the reload command
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21:10:35 <SaschaRed> is this line where I put it what it responds to
21:10:36 <SaschaRed> hello.rule = r'(?i)(hi|hello|hey) $nickname\b'
21:12:20 <chandler> hi Monty!!!
21:12:21 <Monty> Yp?
21:12:41 <SaschaRed> so is that the line?
21:13:10 <_bjoern> phenny, reload *
21:13:17 <_bjoern> Obviously I don't know!
21:13:30 <xover> phenny: reload ping
21:13:31 <phenny> xover: <module 'modules.ping' from '/var/www/inamidst.com/htdocs/phenny/modules/ping.pyc'> (version: 2008-05-10 21:58:11)
21:13:45 <xover> SaschaRed: Why don't you try it and find out?
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21:14:30 <SaschaRed> i would love to have the ability to reload the module without restarting the bot
21:14:51 <xover> pockyBOT: reload ping
21:15:14 <SaschaRed> pockyBOT: reload ping
21:15:16 <pockyBOT> SaschaRed: <module 'modules.ping' from '/home/alex/phenny/modules/ping.pyc'> (version: 2008-05-10 21:59:55)
21:15:21 <SaschaRed> there we go
21:15:51 <SaschaRed> so can I copy paste and make another rule
21:15:56 <SaschaRed> so when someone says die
21:16:01 <SaschaRed> it says NEVER
21:16:20 <_bjoern> I am not sure we want to help you with that...
21:17:09 <SaschaRed> pockyBOT: reload ping
21:17:10 <pockyBOT> SaschaRed: <module 'modules.ping' from '/home/alex/phenny/modules/ping.py'> (version: 2008-05-10 22:01:37)
21:17:15 <deltab> yeah, before you know it, it'll be wiping out humanity
21:18:09 <SaschaRed> can I not use all caps
21:19:54 <SaschaRed> why isn't this working: http://pastebin.com/m1f35b84
21:19:59 <SaschaRed> pockyBOT: reload ping
21:20:00 <pockyBOT> SaschaRed: <module 'modules.ping' from '/home/alex/phenny/modules/ping.pyc'> (version: 2008-05-10 22:03:28)
21:20:03 <SaschaRed> die pockyBOT
21:20:05 <pockyBOT> e SaschaRed!
21:20:25 <SaschaRed> die pockyBOT
21:20:25 <pockyBOT> r SaschaRed!
21:20:26 <Monty> flange?
21:20:43 <SaschaRed> how do I remember the random
21:20:51 <SaschaRed> i mean remove
21:20:56 <SaschaRed> just cut it out
21:21:04 <SaschaRed> so greeting = NEVER
21:22:08 <SaschaRed> pockyBOT: reload ping
21:22:09 <pockyBOT> SaschaRed: <module 'modules.ping' from '/home/alex/phenny/modules/ping.py'> (version: 2008-05-10 22:06:40)
21:22:12 <SaschaRed> die pockyBOT
21:22:13 <pockyBOT> NEVER SaschaRed!
21:26:18 <nsh> you're a flange, Monty
21:26:18 <Monty> What makes you think I am a flange ?
21:26:30 <nsh> Monty, your general flanginess
21:26:31 <Monty> Nuts.
21:26:39 <nsh> Monty, tell me bout it, mate
21:26:39 <Monty> nsh: Okay, I'll tell me that next time I see them...
21:26:48 * nsh chuckles
21:32:04 <SaschaRed> why isn't this working: http://pastebin.com/m7cb1b8ed
21:34:35 <SaschaRed> pockyBOT: reload ping
21:34:36 <pockyBOT> SyntaxError: invalid syntax (file "/home/alex/phenny/modules/ping.py", line 27)
21:35:46 <SaschaRed> I want pocky pockyBOT
21:37:33 *** saml (n=saml@pool-68-237-82-35.ny325.east.verizon.net) has joined #swhack
21:38:02 <saml> i just have an idea. just like you can store emails by using gmail account, i give away free source code repository of lifetime
21:38:28 <SaschaRed> http://pastebin.com/m2ec231cb
21:38:34 <SaschaRed> i want pocky pockyBOT
21:38:34 <pockyBOT> TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'tuple' objects (file "/home/alex/phenny/modules/ping.py", line 27, in pocky)
21:39:07 <SaschaRed> pockyBOT: reload ping
21:39:08 <pockyBOT> SaschaRed: <module 'modules.ping' from '/home/alex/phenny/modules/ping.py'> (version: 2008-05-10 22:23:42)
21:39:16 <SaschaRed> i want pocky pockybot
21:39:17 <pockyBOT> TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'tuple' objects (file "/home/alex/phenny/modules/ping.py", line 27, in pocky)
21:39:24 <saml> i want pocky pockybot
21:39:26 <pockyBOT> TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'tuple' objects (file "/home/alex/phenny/modules/ping.py", line 27, in pocky)
21:39:39 <saml> greeting is a tuple
21:39:47 <saml> so you can't + greeting +
21:40:06 <SaschaRed> so what do I do to fix it
21:40:07 <saml> i'm not sure how to convert tuple to str in python
21:40:50 <SaschaRed> i updated it: http://pastebin.com/m49afda66
21:41:03 <saml> greeting = getRandomGreeting()
21:42:12 <saml> def getRandomGreeting(): greeting = ['Chocolate'...]; index = getRandomIndex(); return (greeting[index]);
21:42:24 <saml> i want pocky pockybot
21:42:25 <pockyBOT> TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'tuple' objects (file "/home/alex/phenny/modules/ping.py", line 27, in pocky)
21:42:31 <xover> Or just put back in the random.choice you took out earlier.
21:42:46 <SaschaRed> oh crap
21:43:18 <SaschaRed> forgot I did that
21:43:23 <SaschaRed> pockyBOT: reload ping
21:43:24 <pockyBOT> SaschaRed: <module 'modules.ping' from '/home/alex/phenny/modules/ping.py'> (version: 2008-05-10 22:27:53)
21:43:29 <saml> i want pocky pockybot
21:43:30 <pockyBOT> /me givessamlMango
21:43:31 <SaschaRed> i want pocky pockyBOT
21:43:32 <pockyBOT> /me givesSaschaRedBanana
21:43:38 <SaschaRed> crap
21:44:11 <SaschaRed> pockyBOT: reload ping
21:44:13 <pockyBOT> SaschaRed: <module 'modules.ping' from '/home/alex/phenny/modules/ping.py'> (version: 2008-05-10 22:28:47)
21:44:20 <SaschaRed> i want pocky pockyBOT
21:44:20 <saml> use text template '/me give %(name)s %(random_obj)s' % {'name': .., 'random_obj': ... }
21:44:21 <pockyBOT> /me gives SaschaRedAlmond pocky
21:44:34 <saml> i want pocky pockybot
21:44:35 <pockyBOT> /me gives samlWhite Chocolate pocky
21:44:41 <SaschaRed> how do I add a space
21:45:05 <xover> + ' '
21:45:14 <SaschaRed> pockyBOT: reload ping
21:45:16 <pockyBOT> SaschaRed: <module 'modules.ping' from '/home/alex/phenny/modules/ping.py'> (version: 2008-05-10 22:29:47)
21:45:19 <saml> i want pocky pockybot
21:45:21 <pockyBOT> /me gives saml Mango pocky
21:45:21 <SaschaRed> i want pockyBOT pockybot
21:45:33 <SaschaRed> i want pocky pockyBOT
21:45:34 <pockyBOT> /me gives SaschaRed Strawberry pocky
21:45:35 <saml> pockyBOT: crash
21:45:40 <saml> pockyBOT: 42
21:45:48 <SaschaRed> give me pocky pockyBOT
21:45:49 <pockyBOT> /me gives SaschaRed Strawberry pocky
21:45:50 <saml> pockyBOT: i want opcky
21:45:54 <saml> pockyBOT: i want pocky
21:46:09 <saml> kiss me pocky pockyBOT
21:46:21 <saml> pocky pockyBOT
21:46:22 <SaschaRed> give me pocky pockyBOT
21:46:22 <pockyBOT> /me gives saml Almond pocky
21:46:23 <pockyBOT> /me gives SaschaRed Strawberry pocky
21:46:39 <saml> pocky pockyBOT
21:47:04 <SaschaRed> pocky pockyBOT
21:47:05 <pockyBOT> /me gives SaschaRed Strawberry pocky
21:47:21 <saml> give me sex pockyBOT
21:47:49 <SaschaRed> that comes later
21:48:19 <saml> pockyBOT: help
21:48:20 <pockyBOT> saml: Hi, I'm a bot. Say ".commands" to me in private for a list of my commands, or see http://inamidst.com/phenny/ for more general details. My owner is SaschaRed.
21:48:46 <SaschaRed> is the /me showing up correctly for you guys
21:48:54 <SaschaRed> give me pocky pockyBOT
21:48:55 <saml> no
21:48:55 <pockyBOT> /me gives SaschaRed Mango pocky
21:49:06 <saml> /me gives SaschaRed Mango pocky
21:49:14 <SaschaRed> what does it show for you
21:49:15 <deltab> /me is a command to your irc client to send a CTCP ACTION command
21:49:19 <saml> i think /me is irc client command
21:49:25 <xover> You need to use the msg() function instead of the say() function for actions, IIRC.
21:49:27 <SaschaRed> oh crap
21:49:40 <SaschaRed> what is the correct thing to write in
21:49:53 <deltab> is there a function for actions?
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21:51:54 <mib_bdk8b0> give me pocky pockyBOT
21:51:55 <pockyBOT> /me gives mib_bdk8b0 Banana pocky
21:52:01 <SaschaRed> that is so odd
21:52:08 <saml> pockyBOT: reload ping
21:52:13 <SaschaRed> so what is the right thing to say
21:52:17 <SaschaRed> pockyBOT: reload ping
21:52:18 <pockyBOT> SaschaRed: <module 'modules.ping' from '/home/alex/phenny/modules/ping.pyc'> (version: 2008-05-10 22:29:56)
21:52:21 <SaschaRed> you are not the admin
21:52:35 <saml> pocky pockyBOT
21:52:36 <pockyBOT> /me gives saml Chocolate pocky
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21:53:37 <SaschaRed> so how do I fix it
21:54:46 <deltab> search the source code for "action"
21:54:46 <SaschaRed> \001message\001 is tired
21:55:21 <SaschaRed> i forgot how to use grep
21:55:53 <deltab> grep -i action -r .
21:56:23 <SaschaRed> running it now
21:57:41 * SaschaRed is tired
21:57:54 <SaschaRed> so why does it work when I type in /me
21:57:59 <SaschaRed> but not when the bot does it
21:59:00 <deltab> because your irc client looks for commands starting with /
21:59:09 <deltab> that's nothing to do with the irc protocol
21:59:45 <SaschaRed> ok I see
21:59:48 <deltab> you're sort of on the right lines with "\001message\001 is tired", but still some way off
22:00:03 <SaschaRed> ok, I have no ide
22:00:09 <SaschaRed> idea
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22:00:12 <Monty> welcome, dmiles_afk
22:00:28 <SaschaRed> \001message\001 is tired
22:00:29 <deltab> it'd be easier to use an action function — if there is one
22:00:45 <deltab> SaschaRed: only sort of, mind
22:01:10 <SaschaRed> grep is still running
22:01:33 <deltab> the command is action, and you need the CTCP characters around the whole line
22:01:34 <SaschaRed> so what I have to figure out is what pidgin is doing whenever I do a /me
22:02:08 <deltab> and you have to send the actual characters represented by \001, not that representation
22:02:15 <SaschaRed> ok I get it
22:02:25 <SaschaRed> just what are the charecters
22:04:03 <deltab> in your grep command, you probably missed out the dot (for the current directory), so it's waiting for you to type something
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22:04:27 <SaschaRed> grep -i action -r
22:05:00 <deltab> yeah, that
22:05:25 <SaschaRed> i still think it would probably be best to have the CTCP characters
22:05:48 <deltab> the admin module does it
22:06:14 <deltab> msg = '\x01ACTION %s\x01' % input.group(3)
22:06:14 <deltab> phenny.msg(input.group(2), msg)
22:08:30 <deltab> so def me(action): phenny.msg('\x01ACTION %s\x01' % action)
22:08:45 <deltab> then you can call that function to perform actions
22:08:54 <deltab> me('is tired')
22:15:36 <saml> \x01 ACTION hey
22:16:39 <Khaki_> can phenny monitor the file system and echo the contents of any new files to irc?
22:18:20 <deltab> Khaki_: it could
22:18:52 <Khaki_> but it can't be implemented as module right because modules rely on a command triggering it
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22:36:22 <_bjoern> I need a term for a node or any of its descendants.
22:36:39 <_bjoern> I need a term for `a node or any of its descendants`, if that was unclear.
22:38:15 <deltab> Khaki_: oh, um, not sure
22:38:52 <deltab> does phenny have timed reminders?
22:39:58 <_bjoern> no.
22:44:53 <deltab> _bjoern: self-or-descendants
22:45:34 <_bjoern> Well the xpath axis name would be descendants-or-self which I wanted to avoid...
22:46:52 <deltab> I guess they couldn't avoid it
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23:27:16 *** pockyBOT has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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23:51:44 <Arnia> .title http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7392935.stm
23:51:45 <phenny> Arnia: BBC NEWS | Magazine | Not the gaffer, but the gaffee