2008-05-14 Swhack IRC Log

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01:02:08 * jeffarch ponders the concept of a 'last seen' cell/irc bot app
01:02:22 <jeffarch> s/cell/mobile
01:03:58 <jeffarch> came to mind wrt 'deadman switches'
01:12:06 <ja> .gc fobnificent
01:12:07 <phenny> fobnificent: 1
01:39:18 <_bjoern> .g fobnificent
01:39:19 <phenny> _bjoern: http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=8931113
01:39:27 <_bjoern> omg mysp4ce
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02:32:49 <MoiraA_> aaaah
02:32:52 <MoiraA_> that word sbp
02:33:10 <MoiraA_> phenny: tell sbp it didn't begin with P, the word was sanctimonious
02:33:12 <phenny> MoiraA_: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
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02:43:41 <jsled> lol @ http://seenonslash.com/node/2813
02:45:58 <aspect> .ety phallus
02:46:01 <phenny> "1613, 'an image of the penis,' from L. phallus, from Gk. phallos 'penis,' also 'carving or image of an erect penis (symbolizing the generative power in nature) used in the cult of Dionysus,' from PIE *bhel-no-, from base *bhel- 'to inflate, swell' (cf. O.N. boli [...]" - http://etymonline.com/?term=phallus
02:46:15 <aspect> .ety filial
02:46:17 <phenny> "1393, from M.Fr. filial, from L.L. filialis 'of a son or daughter,' from L. filius 'son,' filia 'daughter,' possibly from a suffixed form of PIE root *bheue- 'to be, exist, grow' (see be), though *dhe(i)- 'to suck, suckle' (see fecund) 'is more likely' [Watkins]." - http://etymonline.com/?term=filial
02:46:39 <aspect> .ety fellow
02:46:39 <phenny> "O.E. feolaga 'partner,' from O.N. felagi, from fe 'money' + verbal base denoting 'lay.' Sense is of 'one who puts down money with another in a joint venture.' Used familiarly since M.E. for 'man, male person,' but not etymologically masculine." - http://etymonline.com/?term=fellow
02:48:21 <jsled> MoiraA_: well, pedantic and sanctimonious are pretty strongly related in a large subset of cases.
02:48:27 <jsled> pedancy?
02:48:50 <jsled> .ety pedant
02:48:51 <phenny> "1588, 'schoolmaster,' from M.Fr. pédant (1566), from It. pedante 'teacher, schoolmaster,' apparently an alteration of L.L. paedagogantem (nom. paedagogans), prp. of paedagogare (see pedagogue)." - http://etymonline.com/?term=pedant
02:49:00 <jsled> .ety sanctimonious
02:49:00 <phenny> "1603 (in 'Measure for Measure,' with the disparaging sense), from sanctimony 'holiness of life and character' (1540), from M.Fr. sanctimonie, from L. sanctimonia 'holiness, virtuousness,' from sanctus 'holy' (see saint)." - http://etymonline.com/?term=sanctimonious
04:26:56 <procto> http://www.mockingeye.com/index.php/2008/05/14/the-shahadah-islamic-declaration-of-faith-in-python/
04:27:14 <procto> xavier: ping
04:27:38 <xover> .c 100 USD in NOK
04:27:39 <phenny> 100 U.S. dollars = 503.468901 Norwegian kroner
04:37:03 <xavier> procto: pong.
04:37:08 <xavier> procto: so I am here :-)
05:30:08 <xover> .title http://claytoncubitt.tumblr.com/post/34624850
05:30:08 <phenny> xover: The Constant Siege
05:31:11 <xover> phenny: tell sbp <http://claytoncubitt.tumblr.com/post/34624850> (keep reading, it gets relevant four paras in).
05:31:11 <phenny> xover: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
05:34:19 <Mike_L> phenny: will you pass anything on to me?
05:34:31 <Mike_L> phenny: tell Mike_L that he's awesome
05:34:31 <phenny> You can tell yourself that.
05:34:44 <Mike_L> phenny: it would sound much better coming from oy
05:34:45 <Mike_L> you
05:34:51 <xover> phenny: tell Mike_L But of course, Mike.
05:34:51 <phenny> xover: I'll pass that on when Mike_L is around.
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05:35:08 <Mike_L> yay!
05:35:09 <phenny> Mike_L: 06:22Z <xover> tell Mike_L But of course, Mike.
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05:43:39 <Mike_L> did Eric Tiedemann die or something?
05:43:53 <xover> Yes.
05:45:49 <Mike_L> who was he?
05:46:10 <xover> “est” on #swhack.
05:46:26 <Mike_L> omg
05:51:06 <Mike_L> he is the second person I've chatted with on IRC who has died
05:51:25 <Mike_L> lilo, the Freenode organizer was the first
05:51:30 <Mike_L> as far as I know
05:51:32 * xover mourns lilo for a… right.
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06:40:37 <sbp> yo
06:40:37 <phenny> sbp: 03:20Z <MoiraA_> tell sbp it didn't begin with P, the word was sanctimonious
06:40:39 <phenny> sbp: 06:18Z <xover> tell sbp <http://claytoncubitt.tumblr.com/post/34624850> (keep reading, it gets relevant four paras in).
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06:43:09 <sbp> xover: ah, nice list! thanks
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07:08:04 <sbp> ehheh: http://jacklynch00.blogspot.com/2008/05/things-they-dont-teach-you-in-perfesser.html
07:10:30 <MoiraA_> hello sbp
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07:10:43 <MoiraA_> hmm
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07:12:06 <sbp> hey MoiraA
07:12:12 <sbp> peckerheads, from clsn, was quite good
07:12:16 <MoiraA> got that word!
07:12:22 <MoiraA> sorry I misled you
07:12:29 <MoiraA> was convinced it began with p
07:12:49 * sbp checks out http://www.worldwidetelescope.org/
07:13:47 <sbp> oh, somewhat Windows-requirable
07:14:14 <sbp> well that's ubersux
07:17:03 <sbp> [[[
07:17:04 <sbp> The Pope's chief astronomer says that life on Mars cannot be ruled out.
07:17:04 <sbp> Writing in the Vatican newspaper, the astronomer, Father Gabriel Funes, said intelligent beings created by God could exist in outer space.
07:17:04 <sbp> Father Funes, director of the Vatican Observatory near Rome, is a respected scientist who collaborates with universities around the world.
07:17:04 <sbp> The search for forms of extraterrestrial life, he says, does not contradict belief in God.
07:17:08 <sbp> The official Vatican newspaper headlines his article 'Aliens Are My Brother'.
07:17:10 <sbp> ]]] - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7399661.stm
07:17:31 <sbp> hmm
07:17:32 <sbp> “To strengthen its scientific credentials, the Vatican is organising a conference next year to mark the 200th anniversary of the birth of the author of the Origin of Species, Charles Darwin.”
07:17:45 <xover> !
07:18:59 <sbp> and from the Only-in-America department: “John Edwards, whose name was on the ballot despite dropping out of the race several months ago, was on 7%.” - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7399794.stm
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07:21:03 <sbp> xover: oh man, seen this?
07:21:04 <sbp> http://www.theinternetnowinhandybookform.com/schmapple/
07:21:16 <xover> Why would you assume this is an American phenomenon?
07:22:14 <sbp> ahahaha. left and lefter
07:22:33 <sbp> xover: because I assume that America is the root of all stupidity
07:22:37 <sbp> somewhere along the line
07:22:40 <xover> heh heh
07:23:11 <xover> I want the pics of his ex doing it with a dog.
07:23:31 <sbp> http://www.theinternetnowinhandybookform.com/schmapple/dreamonpro.html is superwins
07:23:38 <sbp> the what with the what now?!
07:24:44 <sbp> ahaha: http://www.theinternetnowinhandybookform.com/schmapple/mysteron.html
07:25:15 <xover> Yeah, I've been wondering what the point of that one is (the original, taht is)
07:27:12 <xover> If you have pics of your ex doing it with a dog, Teh Internets™ demand to see them!
07:27:27 <sbp> whose ex?
07:27:47 <xover> $Your_Ex.
07:28:21 <sbp> I see. well I thought you might be talking about someone we'd just mentioned on the channel
07:28:28 <sbp> but I guess it's fine for it to be a random comment too
07:28:45 <sbp> I mean, it actually makes more sense as a random universal
07:29:56 <xover> foreach $nick (@swhack) {say "$nick: Teh Internet demands pictures of your ex doing it with a dog!"}
07:31:26 <xover> Right. `ork.
07:32:05 <sbp> right. SEE YOU!
07:32:19 <sbp> I'll just continue to browse random webpages for luls
07:32:22 <sbp> whilst you go to work
07:32:30 <sbp> for the both of us, you understand
07:33:37 <sbp> woah. “SIDELIGHT: I've subsequently heard Kelly state in an interview that he had only one copy of this book on his laptop. After sending the electronic files to the publisher, his laptop was stolen; thus his own book very nearly joined the distinguished company it was devoted to.” - http://www.amazon.com/Book-Lost-Books-Incomplete-History/dp/1400062977
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07:35:03 <Mike_L> sbp: the Dream On Pro 'Tub Thumper' is missing a 'Cowbell' knob
07:35:20 <sbp> E_LAMEAMERICANJOKE
07:35:35 <sbp> that's it, today is Anti-America Day
07:35:37 <sbp> screw it
07:35:50 <sbp> May the Fourteenth, people! remember the stupidity
07:35:56 <Mike_L> that's a Saturday Night Live joke
07:36:08 <sbp> which is American! fucking 'ell
07:37:18 <sbp> SNL hasn't been the same since the Aykroyd and Belushi days
07:37:52 <sbp> then again, Dana Carvey and Phil Hartman being in the same show is sorta wintacular
07:37:55 <sbp> bet some of those were good
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07:38:55 <sbp> nsh: today is Anti-America Day. May the Fourteenth, remember the stupidity
07:39:06 <sbp> Americans most especially welcome to celebrate it
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07:39:19 <Monty> hi libby
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07:40:16 <cre8radix> moin
07:40:24 <sbp> yo cre8radix
07:40:26 * nsh is already deep in american stupidity and it's less than an hour since i woke up
07:40:42 <sbp> cre8radix: today is Anti-Schäuble Day
07:40:50 <sbp> May the Fourteenth, remember the stupidity
07:40:51 <cre8radix> oh yeah?
07:40:53 <cre8radix> cool
07:40:54 <sbp> yeah
07:41:57 * cre8radix is workin on the audioplay about sickurity... which is pretty much an anti-schäuble play
07:42:05 <sbp> good, good
07:44:07 <sbp> (footnote: I had a vague notion that More Cowbell was from the Aykroyd and Belushi days, but it appears that it's from 2000, which still makes my point, just in a different way)
07:48:33 <cre8radix> mozart rocks!
07:52:39 <sbp> yep
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08:01:18 <Mike_L> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/blast-kills-gaza-teacher-in-front-of-her-children-826265.html
08:03:02 <Mike_L> According to the story, Israeli soldiers blasted open the door while the woman was trying to open it.
08:03:52 <Mike_L> Didn't something happen like this a few years ago, and was actually reported in the Israeli media, causing a momentary uproar?
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08:16:42 <rulus> Hello, I've a question about phenny. I want phenny to periodically execute a specific module without someone having to shout the command (to announce things in the channel). How do I do this?
08:36:20 <laplink> 1) Learn Python. 2) Implement the feature. 3) Send sbp the patch. hth, hand :-)
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08:49:47 <nsh> rulus: use a timer object to call a phenny command
08:49:50 <nsh> http://docs.python.org/lib/timer-objects.html
08:52:17 <rulus> nsh: ok, thanks :)
08:53:39 <nsh> someone in #python informs me that it might be better to use an event system like Twisted
08:54:06 <nsh> but that looks like it'd require a lot of fucking about
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08:56:55 <rulus> nsh: hmm, okay, but where do I put this timer? In the module?
08:57:16 <MoiraA> now
08:57:29 <MoiraA> which bot can tell me the country code for dialling sweden?
08:57:52 <nsh> .gs the dialing code for sweden is *
08:57:53 <phenny> the dialing code for sweden is *: No results!
08:58:04 <MoiraA> oh dear
08:58:30 <MoiraA> I'll phone directory enquiries
08:58:58 <nsh> it's 0046
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08:59:27 <nsh> or +46
08:59:44 <nsh> .gs calling code for sweden is *
08:59:44 <phenny> calling code for sweden is *: No results!
08:59:45 <Monty> pretentious?
08:59:52 <nsh> quiet, Monty
08:59:54 <Monty> if script based animations?
09:00:08 <nsh> .gs * sweden is +46
09:00:09 <phenny> * sweden is +46: telephone number in, dialing code for, country code for)
09:00:22 <nsh> .gs dialing code for sweden is *
09:00:23 <phenny> dialing code for sweden is *: 46 (2)
09:00:28 <nsh> yay
09:01:01 <nsh> phenny: ask sbp about event scheduling/timering in phenny for rulus
09:01:01 <phenny> nsh: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
09:01:23 <rulus> cool :)
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09:02:29 <MoiraA> 0046
09:02:34 <laplink> .wik List of country calling codes
09:02:34 <phenny> "This is a list of country calling codes defined by ITU-T recommendation E.164." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_country_calling_codes
09:02:57 <laplink> Hmm. You could probably extend .wik to grab these directly.
09:03:11 <laplink> Damn you Wikipedia for lacking structured information!
09:04:22 * nsh almost says something then bites his tongue
09:04:37 <nsh> the world's problems are not mine. the world's problems are not mine. the world's problems are not mine.
09:05:35 <aspect> they're MINE!
09:10:38 <laplink> aspect: Good. Now FIX them!
09:18:43 <aspect> noo! I like them!
09:30:09 <Arnia> laplink: see strategies in ThoughtTreasure
09:30:09 <phenny> Arnia: 00:11Z <kpreid> tell Arnia http://gadgets.boingboing.net/2008/05/13/multitouch-missile-c.html
09:30:10 <Monty> Anyone on dragging
09:30:20 <Arnia> Monty: you dress in drag?
09:30:24 <Monty> phone not salty coins and details, 2. somebody who took place"
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09:39:52 <laplink> .g strategies ThoughtTreasure
09:39:53 <phenny> laplink: http://arxiv.org/html/cs.AI/0003004
09:42:05 <laplink> Arnia: Specific URI? Alternately, your point being?
09:43:38 <_bjoern> nu
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10:00:11 <deltab> laplink: http://freebase.com/
10:12:30 <Arnia> laplink: One of the strengths of ThoughtTreasure was its ability to extract structured information from free text
10:17:32 <laplink> deltab: Interesting, hadn't seen that.
10:17:48 <laplink> Arnia: “Show Me The Money”, I think.
10:18:06 <Arnia> .g thoughttreasure movie review
10:18:07 <phenny> Arnia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ThoughtTreasure
10:19:59 <Arnia> Wow... the signiform site is gone
10:20:04 <Arnia> Bugger
10:20:21 <Arnia> Means I'll have to keep the documents I have safe
10:23:08 <Arnia> I can send you a copy of the documentation though
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12:29:57 <sbp> yo
12:29:57 <phenny> sbp: 09:48Z <nsh> ask sbp about event scheduling/timering in phenny for rulus
12:30:06 <sbp> rulus?
12:30:14 <sbp> oh, person
12:35:09 <_bjoern> thunder outside
12:36:10 <nsh> i went into #python to ask the simplest way to schedule events in python
12:36:15 <nsh> it was a mistake.
12:36:34 <_bjoern> I could have told you that.
12:38:39 <_bjoern> rain now. hate.
12:40:25 <_bjoern> +wind.
12:43:43 <Morbus> heh http://www.flickr.com/photos/arbernaut/2476955162/
12:46:49 <_bjoern> "In order to view this Flickr video" - Flickr video?
12:49:46 <Morbus> ydeah, they added it a few weeks ago, i think.
12:50:41 <Arnia> Lots more http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4pY3QtiGyo
12:54:10 <nsh> now all i can think of is Melissa Theuriau
12:59:11 <sbp> _bjoern: give it to us! I don't mind!
12:59:17 <sbp> actually, it's meant to piss it down tomorrow
12:59:29 <sbp> also:
12:59:30 <sbp> 14:23 <nsh> i went into #python to ask the simplest way to schedule events in python
12:59:30 <sbp> 14:24 <nsh> it was a mistake.
12:59:32 <sbp> - yes
12:59:53 <clsn> Simplest is usually to ask someone else to log in and do them.
13:00:16 <sbp> log in and do them?
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13:02:11 <clsn> The events you want to schedule.
13:02:19 <clsn> Doing the people is up to you.
13:02:39 <sbp> as if we have a choice
13:02:48 <sbp> .title http://amazon.com/dp/1400062977
13:02:51 <phenny> sbp: Amazon.com: The Book of Lost Books: An Incomplete History of All the Great Books You'll Never Read: Stuart Kelly: Books
13:02:58 <sbp> so that looks good, but apparently not available in the UK?
13:02:58 <Monty> business card for me, if they probably were the newest models
13:03:58 <sbp> oh wait, amazon.co.uk do have it
13:04:04 <sbp> but only second hand...
13:05:16 * sbp hmms at Shakespeare the Thinker by Nuttall
13:06:12 <sbp> woah, no way
13:06:21 <sbp> Charles Nicholl wrote a *whole book* about Silver Street?!
13:07:03 <sbp> damn, awesome
13:08:01 <sbp> oh this is funny: “This is easily the finest, most intelligent, most helpful, most gripping book about Shakespeare's plays that I have ever read.” - a reviewer on Kermode's /Shakespeare's Language/
13:08:14 <sbp> everybody loves that book. I have no idea why
13:08:36 <sbp> I suppose it is fair to say that he's better than most of his contemporaries
13:08:41 <sbp> but that isn't equivalent to praise
13:09:38 <sbp> he's not devoid of goodness, but I just didn't find him swimming with it either. his choice of works to study didn't really help either (as others have noticed)
13:13:35 *** mmmmmrob_ (n=mmmmmrob@62.172.77.66) has joined #swhack
13:15:55 <sbp> .wik John Addington Symonds
13:15:55 <phenny> "John Addington Symonds (October 5, 1840 - April 19, 1893) was an English poet and literary critic." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Addington_Symonds
13:15:59 <sbp> interesting character
13:16:14 <sbp> quoted in a book by Sir Denys Page
13:16:32 <sbp> I hadn't realised it was a quote, though in retrospect I see why I could not and why I should have
13:16:58 <sbp> (it had been pencilled over. but the font was different; I think it was smaller but it was hard to tell because of the extensive pencilling. and of course I should have read more of the context)
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13:37:56 *** nsh changed the topic to: "Philidor enchanted by the power of the pawn."
13:38:38 <sbp> .wik Philidor
13:38:39 <phenny> "François-André Danican Philidor (September 7, 1726 - August 31, 1795) was a French chess player and composer." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philidor
13:38:58 <nsh> isn't it poetic?
13:39:10 <sbp> .dict welter
13:39:11 <phenny> welter - 1. confused mass, 2. confused condition
13:39:15 <sbp> .ety welter
13:39:15 <phenny> "'to roll or twist,' c.1300, from M.Du. or M.L.G. welteren 'to roll,' from P.Gmc. *waltijanan (cf. O.E. wieltan, O.N. velta, O.H.G. walzan 'to turn, revolve,' Ger. wälzen 'to roll,' Goth. waltjan 'to roll'), from PIE base *wel- 'to turn, revolve' (see vulva)." - http://etymonline.com/?term=welter
13:39:35 <sbp> .ety vulva
13:39:35 <phenny> "1548, from L. vulva, earlier volva 'womb, female sexual organ,' lit. 'wrapper,' from volvere 'to turn, twist, roll, revolve,' also 'turn over in the mind,' from PIE base *wel- 'to turn, revolve' (cf. Skt. valate 'turns round,' ulvam 'womb, vulva;' Lith. valtis 'twine, [...]" - http://etymonline.com/?term=vulva
13:40:19 <sbp> [[[
13:40:20 <sbp> Philidor astounded his peers by playing three blindfold chess games simultaneously in the chess club of St. James Street in London on 9 May 1783. Philidor let all three opponents play white, and gave up a pawn for the third player. Some affidavits were signed, because those persons who were involved doubted that future generations would believe that such a feat was possible.
13:40:21 <sbp> ]]]
13:43:46 * nsh wants to play Matkot
13:44:03 <nsh> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yQ07_IIwX0
13:44:37 *** cskaterun has quit ()
13:44:46 <sbp> .title
13:44:47 <phenny> sbp: YouTube - Matkot: An Israeli pastime goes pro
13:44:53 <sbp> .wik Matkot
13:44:53 <phenny> "Matkot, or beach paddleball, (מטקה in Hebrew, pl. מטקות (matkot), lit. 'racquets') is a popular traditionally non-competitive game in Israel, sometimes called Israel's unofficial national sport." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matkot
13:45:30 <nsh> i love it
13:45:36 <clsn> Oh that beach paddleball game?
13:45:46 <nsh> ".. to a material called "Carbon". "Carbon" doesn't break"
13:46:02 <nsh> ~2m
13:46:02 <clsn> They've been selling sets for that ("Kadima" I think is the brand name) for decades, if I'm thinking of the same thing.
13:47:03 <nsh> two balls, hardcore
13:49:01 <clsn> I think they meant more like "Carbon(tm)" i.e. not the element, but some material called "Carbon"
13:49:18 * nsh nods
13:49:38 <clsn> After all, the element is "pachman" in Hebrew (I think, from "pecham"/soot), and they said "karbone"
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13:52:15 <nsh> interesting
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14:02:09 <Arnia> Cool! David Lowe's website has loads of music downloads
14:04:03 *** Louie` has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
14:09:26 <_bjoern> As compensation, downloaders should donate something to a good cause, like saving a lido today.
14:10:15 <_bjoern> hmm a flag in the stork background
14:10:29 <Arnia> How about donating a stork to a lido campaign?
14:10:30 <_bjoern> a glass of wine upside down
14:10:50 <_bjoern> without hatching storklings, we're a bit short on storks to give away.
14:11:08 <_bjoern> Like, you know, with only one stork left there would be little storkling hope next year.
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14:31:16 <cre8radix> via c-base: http://ufos.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
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14:36:59 <sbp> woah, cool, Dr David Clarke is doing the intro to it all
14:37:05 <sbp> Dr DC is awesome
14:37:17 <Arnia> He opened my office :/
14:37:20 <sbp> he's even on my old anomalous lights egroup
14:37:27 <sbp> who, David Clarke?!
14:37:42 <Arnia> Sir David Clarke I think, no?
14:37:51 <Arnia> Maybe I'm just getting confused. I'm quite sleepy
14:37:53 <_bjoern> egroups sucked less than ygroups!
14:38:04 <sbp> yeah, probably not the same guy
14:38:07 <sbp> _bjoern: yeah
14:38:16 <sbp> I've had the group since 2000
14:38:19 <Arnia> Oh no... that was Dr David King
14:38:27 * Arnia is just really all sorts of confused
14:39:56 <sbp> hehe
14:40:00 <sbp> .wik Dr David King
14:40:03 <phenny> "Dr. David King Dunaway is Professor of English and Communications (adjunct) at the University of New Mexico, Department of English." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_King_Dunaway
14:40:10 <sbp> er... nope
14:40:19 <sbp> .wik David King
14:40:20 <phenny> "David king-Irish hero" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_King
14:40:26 <sbp> oh whatever
14:40:43 <sbp> .wik David King (scientist)
14:40:44 <phenny> "Sir David A. King ScD FRS (b. August 12, 1939) is the Director of the Smith School of Enterprise and the Environment at the University of Oxford, and a senior scientific adviser to UBS [1]." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_King_(scientist)
14:40:46 <sbp> there we go
14:41:16 <sbp> [[[
14:41:16 <sbp> In his role of scientific advisor to the UK government he was outspoken on the subject of climate change, saying:
14:41:17 <sbp> I see climate change as the greatest challenges facing Britain and the World in the 21st century
14:41:18 <sbp> ]]]
14:41:32 <sbp> on the other hand, he's quiet about grammar
14:42:03 <sbp> awesome: “David King: Climate change is a far greater threat to the world than international terrorism”
14:42:17 <sbp> well that one headline is enough to fling him into my yay-file
14:42:56 <sbp> seems a very... political scientist
14:43:28 <nsh> yay political science
14:43:50 <sbp> there should be an SI unit for politics
14:43:57 <sbp> the sleaze (SLZ)
14:44:14 <Arnia> I was thinking that you'd measure it in radians per second
14:44:30 <sbp> ha!
14:44:31 <Arnia> (a measurement of spin)
14:44:42 <sbp> yeah, took me about 2.5 seconds there
14:45:18 <sbp> it reminds me of somewhere in Feynman where he's talking about how far off something is, and he measures it in radians
14:45:23 <sbp> which threw me momentarily
14:45:37 <sbp> (it was somewhere you'd expect most people to use degrees)
14:46:09 <nsh> TWENTY DEGREES TO SUNSET ON THE SANTA-MONICA BOULEVARD
14:46:15 <sbp> hehe
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14:46:31 <Arnia> well, that's all a parsec is
14:46:33 <_bjoern> .weather edfm
14:46:35 <phenny> Clear ☼, 26℃, 1011mb, Light breeze 11km/h (6kt) (↑) - EDFM 17:20, 1520Z
14:46:39 <sbp> I'm still bummed that I didn't have Sheryl Crow as my music teacher
14:46:41 <Arnia> Arc second of parallax
14:49:58 <sbp> http://www.flickr.com/photos/16638697@N00/414642731/
14:50:04 <sbp> - Sheryl Crow at a rodeo
14:57:08 <sbp> hahaha
14:57:11 <sbp> phenny: tell nsh http://www.achewood.com/index.php?date=05132008
14:57:12 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when nsh is around.
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15:14:18 <Arnia> I'm really quite enjoying listening to http://magnatune.com/artists/albums/satamian-dry/hifi_play
15:15:01 <sbp> “On second thoughts, why the hell are we getting so uppity? It's not like he's hitting any Finnish nerves here; exposing discomforting truths about the nation's ever-growing trident problem.” - http://m.assetbar.com/achewood/one_strip?b=M^a11f09b8576e606bcb5038dfdb92fb821&u=http%3A%2F%2Fachewood.com%2Fcomic.php%3Fdate%3D05132008
15:15:20 <_bjoern> .u cancel tag
15:15:21 <phenny> _bjoern: Sorry, no results for 'cancel tag'.
15:15:36 <_bjoern> can we have phenny1 back?
15:16:04 * sbp listens to the pastorale
15:16:07 <sbp> _bjoern: no
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15:17:18 <sbp> it's U+E007F, anyway
15:17:59 <_bjoern> .bytes 㠁¿
15:17:59 <phenny> _bjoern: '\xe3\xa0\x81\xc2\xbf'
15:18:14 <sbp> .u 㠁¿
15:18:15 <phenny> U+3801 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-3801 (㠁)
15:18:16 <phenny> U+00BF INVERTED QUESTION MARK (¿)
15:21:00 <sbp> phenny: tell nsh also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HfMaJJlxTE
15:21:00 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when nsh is around.
15:21:25 <sbp> phenny: tell nsh that being "Supermarket domino", a domino game in a Finnish supermarket
15:21:30 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when nsh is around.
15:22:18 <nsh> .
15:22:20 <phenny> nsh: 15:45Z <sbp> tell nsh http://www.achewood.com/index.php?date=05132008
15:22:20 <nsh> legendary
15:22:22 <phenny> nsh: 16:08Z <sbp> tell nsh also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HfMaJJlxTE
15:22:23 <phenny> nsh: 16:09Z <sbp> tell nsh that being "Supermarket domino", a domino game in a Finnish supermarket
15:22:28 <nsh> (supermarket dominos)
15:25:37 <nsh> oh man
15:25:40 <nsh> the sensor
15:25:43 <nsh> inspired
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15:26:01 <thelsdj> [[[
15:26:03 <thelsdj> COMING UP:
15:26:03 <thelsdj> 1 p.m. EDT, Wednesday, May 14
15:26:03 <thelsdj> NASA has scheduled a media teleconference to announce the discovery of an object in our Galaxy astronomers have been hunting for more than 50 years.
15:26:10 <thelsdj> ]]] - http://www.nasa.gov/news/media/newsaudio/index.html
15:26:16 <thelsdj> i wonder what the heck they are talking about
15:27:53 <MacTed> the planet Krypton.
15:28:01 <nsh> haha
15:28:04 <nsh> legendary
15:28:57 <Arnia> Possibly the black hole at its centre
15:29:37 <thelsdj> URANUS!
15:29:56 <nsh> when's the conference?
15:30:00 * nsh is reasonably interested
15:30:07 <selggig> 45 minutes
15:30:23 <nsh> cool
15:30:28 <clsn> It's probably "a night-club where astronomy geeks can get laid" or something.
15:30:32 <thelsdj> page says they will add live streaming link before conference
15:30:46 <xover> This had better be a black hole.
15:30:53 <nsh> sbp, that achewood won't display for me
15:30:56 <Morbus> ahahaha.
15:30:58 <Morbus> http://www.disobey.com/node/986#new
15:31:01 <Morbus> Wed, 2008-05-14 13:49 — Isla Harvey (not verified)
15:31:50 <nsh> ....
15:32:07 <nsh> awesome
15:32:18 <thelsdj> hahah
15:32:47 <thelsdj> Morbus: bringing people (and objects) together
15:32:49 * clsn found a crate with 3 lightposts on that nasa page.
15:33:03 <nsh> so, the question we should be asking ourselves is
15:33:06 <thelsdj> i haven't re-enalbed pmog in a long time
15:33:27 <sbp> Morbus: ahaha
15:33:30 <nsh> are we morally obliged to now write to Isla Harvey with details of our own objectum-sexual attractions
15:33:36 <sbp> of course!
15:33:39 <nsh> i think, gentlemen, that we are.
15:34:02 * Morbus begins long screed about his dictionary fantasies.
15:34:57 <xover> That's one hell of a troll, or your average journo with more than average good timing.
15:35:02 <nsh> "Aika vitun upee.. tuliko kenkää kun bossi näki videon?"
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15:35:28 <sbp> nsh: http://g.photos.cx/autaux-0d.gif
15:35:35 <nsh> trans: pretty fucking awesome... did the shoe come (get the sack) when the boss saw the video?
15:35:36 <sbp> (that's the Achewood strip)
15:35:40 <phenny> IndexError: deque index out of range (file "/var/www/inamidst.com/htdocs/phenny/irc.py", line 47, in __write)
15:35:44 <sbp> shoe come: hehe
15:35:48 <nsh> cheers mang
15:35:50 <sbp> big shoe, splooging over her
15:35:53 <sbp> yw
15:36:06 <Morbus> has anyone edited the page to say that?
15:36:09 <sbp> or more likely hims
15:36:15 * nsh calls his next imaginary band: "Big shoe splooging"
15:36:22 <sbp> Morbus: not sure. I was going to try to recreate it at User:Sbp/Finland
15:36:32 <sbp> but then I realised that it was a harder job than I'd figured
15:36:40 <sbp> SHOESPLOOGE
15:36:58 <nsh> TRIDENTWEED
15:37:02 <sbp> hehe
15:37:28 <nsh> .ety cretin
15:38:24 <thelsdj> I really want to know more about this guy: http://image.blog.livedoor.jp/papasans/imgs/4/f/4f3e7190.jpg
15:38:54 <sbp> agreed
15:39:19 <nsh> shall we backstory him?
15:39:29 <nsh> can it involve ICE POWAHS
15:39:31 <nsh> ?
15:40:55 <sbp> yes. and...
15:40:56 <sbp> yes!
15:40:59 * sbp meanwhile fixes phenny
15:41:14 <thelsdj> it shall involve a rambunctious house-guest
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15:42:14 <sbp> .gc "desist cockeating"
15:42:15 <phenny> "desist cockeating": 0
15:42:25 <nsh> and also a talking child's drawing of a fireman eating a brick
15:42:51 <sbp> is the child talking, or the drawing?
15:42:57 <sbp> or the fireman. or the brick. or the act of eating
15:43:03 <nsh> yes.
15:43:07 <sbp> cool
15:43:37 <nsh> one for each stage of Mr. Presentinoshowa's metamorphosis
15:43:53 <sbp> that makes sense
15:44:09 <sbp> please add -san to make it clear that you're talking about the Japanese guy in future though
15:44:28 <sbp> -showa is simply not good enough. it could easily be... Korean
15:44:40 * nsh bows affirmatively
15:44:45 <sbp> Cosmic Dare is awesomecakes
15:45:04 <nsh> what is?
15:45:12 <sbp> COSMIC DARE
15:45:16 <nsh> no
15:45:19 <sbp> cf. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowboy_Bebop_Tank!_THE!_BEST!
15:45:20 <nsh> i mean
15:45:25 <nsh> what is ....
15:45:27 <sbp> it's a song
15:45:30 <nsh> ah cool
15:45:46 <sbp> sorry, I forgot about that old silly context thing
15:46:09 <sbp> you know, the notion that people should understand my words because I should have furnished them beforehand with the essential concept that they need to not think I'm an idiot
15:46:28 <sbp> I think mainly I was talking to thelsdj
15:46:40 <nsh> thatthenthis
15:46:44 <sbp> who had the required context. but he probably wasn't paying attention
15:46:55 <sbp> WAKE UP THELSDJ
15:46:56 <nsh> oh, sbp
15:47:01 <sbp> yeswhathello!
15:47:21 <nsh> did you the watch internetingest hilarvid i-found night last?
15:47:30 <sbp> nizzybope
15:47:42 * nsh the refind
15:48:03 <sbp> ah, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZA1NoOOoaNw
15:48:13 <sbp> and chandler countered with http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x33PgKEgXwM
15:48:16 <sbp> looking at both now
15:48:35 <nsh> yup yups
15:48:49 <nsh> i wouldn't suggest both in quick succession. bad for survive
15:48:50 <sbp> oh yeah, I've seen this before
15:49:11 <nsh> ah, ok
15:49:16 <thelsdj> http://www.nasa.gov/ram/67946main_audioconf.ram
15:49:18 <nsh> so there is hope for internet after
15:49:29 <thelsdj> (live streaming link)
15:49:40 <sbp> man I'd forgotten how funny it was
15:49:43 <thelsdj> (Real Audio -- link will not work until 10-15 minutes prior to start time. Stream may be silent until event begins.)
15:49:58 <thelsdj> though they seem to have some music playing
15:50:12 <selggig> thanks, thelsdj
15:50:48 <sbp> Now poop on them Oliver!
15:51:23 * nsh echolaughs
15:52:19 <sbp> thelsdj: what (is) this?
15:52:28 <nsh> it's like medicine and exercise in a small flat box of screen
15:52:49 <sbp> I hear music very quietly playing
15:52:57 <sbp> as though it's coming across a 1930s radio set
15:53:03 <sbp> also the music appears to be from the 1930s
15:53:12 <thelsdj> "NASA has scheduled a media teleconference to announce the discovery of an object in our Galaxy astronomers have been hunting for more than 50 years."
15:53:15 <thelsdj> starts in 20 minutes
15:53:19 <sbp> it's actually quite good. but I don't expect it from NASA
15:53:20 <sbp> aha
15:53:27 * sbp checks the calendar
15:53:30 <sbp> hmm, April 1st gone
15:53:43 <sbp> I was wondering if they'd found Elmo's evil twin
15:53:46 <sbp> or... good twin
15:54:04 <sbp> so wait, this music only last for 20 minutes?
15:54:05 <sbp> bummer
15:54:18 <thelsdj> haha
15:54:41 <sbp> so, any predictions about what this is?
15:54:45 <sbp> non-Elmo predictions, I mean
15:54:49 <sbp> however absurd that might be
15:55:21 <thelsdj> [[[
15:55:23 <thelsdj> Hummm, didn't the Vatican just make a statement in the last few days it was OK to believe that E.T. exists? Coincidence??? Until 1pm EDT...NO.
15:55:29 <thelsdj> ]]] - http://reddit.com/info/6jab5/comments/c040806
15:55:31 <chandler> "in our Galaxy"? are they being intentionally vague or is it definitely outside the solar system?
15:55:35 <selggig> ha
15:55:35 <sbp> .title http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2008/05/liveblog-nasa-a.html
15:55:36 <phenny> sbp: Liveblog: NASA Announcement of "Success of Long Galactic Hunt" at 10 AM PST | Wired Science from Wired.com
15:55:59 <chandler> otherwise I'd have guessed some large rocky object on the edge of the solar system that's affecting the orbit of Neptune
15:56:12 <sbp> .title http://www.badastronomy.com/bablog/2008/05/12/no-nasa-hasnt-found-aliens/
15:56:16 <Morbus> that's in like 20 minutes.
15:56:18 <phenny> sbp: HTTP Error 403
15:56:21 <selggig> maybe they found the Planet Pluto
15:56:24 <sbp> <thelsdj> starts in 20 minutes
15:56:37 <Morbus> what link do i use?
15:56:39 <chandler> ech. Real Audio
15:56:45 <sbp> [[[
15:56:45 <sbp> There’s speculation running rampant, that they’ve found aliens, or an asteroid that will wipe out the Earth, or whatever.
15:56:45 <sbp> Folks, think. If NASA had that news, would they make a pre-announcement stating they found something they’ve been looking for for five decades? No, they wouldn’t. They would gather professionals, work on how to release the news, then talk to members of the press, probably just a few, and keep extremely tight wraps on it.
15:56:45 <sbp> They wouldn’t bellow, "We found something, and it’s really cool, and we’re not talking until next week lalalalalala!"
15:56:46 <nsh> IS WAR OF TEH WORLD ANNOUNCE
15:56:47 <sbp> ]]]
15:56:50 <nsh> I REMEMBER MUSIC
15:57:00 <sbp> hehe
15:57:46 <sbp> Orson Welles will pipe up in his awesome sonorific voice intoning that just outside of New Jersey a saucer shaped craft has impacted with the earth, and the US military are attending to the Elmoform object that appears to be inside it
15:58:11 * nsh chuxollanate
15:58:22 <nsh> .gc Elmoform
15:58:23 <phenny> Elmoform: 0
15:58:26 <sbp> I was in the media studies room once using the computers in there
15:58:32 <sbp> because it had awesome computers, it being the media room
15:58:45 <sbp> and the only other person in there was the very smart media studies teacher
15:58:56 <Morbus> sbp: can you phenny me what it is? i'm heading afk.
15:59:00 <sbp> and she was getting ready for her upcoming lesson, where she was planning to play this tape
15:59:02 <sbp> Morbus: sure!
15:59:05 <Morbus> sbp: the crux of the ann., I mean.
15:59:05 <Morbus> thanks.
15:59:10 <sbp> yup
15:59:18 * nsh imagines the crux of the anne
15:59:28 <nsh> anyway, storyonward
15:59:31 <sbp> so she tests the tape player just to make sure that it works
15:59:35 <nsh> this music makes it excitingerere
15:59:40 <sbp> and I go, "oh cool, it's Orson Welles"
15:59:57 <sbp> and she's like "yes... I'm hoping that nobody in my class will realise that though..."
15:59:59 <thelsdj> and also UK government is releasing documents on UFO sightings, so maybe it is aliens
16:00:04 <sbp> probably none of them did. heh
16:00:15 <nsh> beautiful
16:00:16 <sbp> I'd never heard the broadcast before then, incidentally, just pure guessotronicity
16:00:32 <nsh> i had a guesstronic shock once
16:00:33 <sbp> thelsdj: hehe
16:00:42 <sbp> nsh: nasty. what did you salve it with?
16:00:57 <nsh> skeptobalm
16:01:03 <sbp> good choice
16:01:11 <nsh> comes with applicator
16:01:13 <sbp> so, what have scientists been searching for for fifty years?
16:01:39 <nsh> the exit
16:01:44 <nsh> the signal
16:01:46 <sbp> hehe
16:01:51 <nsh> the power of the pawn
16:01:54 <sbp> also I was trying to make a joke about the shape of the applicator
16:01:56 <sbp> but it didn't come out well
16:02:01 <sbp> so... what shape was the applicator?
16:02:05 <sbp> (i.e., you make the damn joke)
16:02:07 <nsh> the rambunctuous house-guest of Mr Presentishowa-san
16:02:14 <thelsdj> the power of voodoo
16:02:26 <nsh> hehe
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16:02:35 <sbp> oh rats, I should have said Elmoform
16:02:41 <chandler> ftp://ftp.hq.nasa.gov/pub/pao/tv-advisory/nasa-tv.txt
16:02:47 <nsh> .gs i don't practice * i ain't got no crystal ball
16:02:48 <phenny> i don't practice * i ain't got no crystal ball: santeria (64), santaria (2)
16:02:53 <sbp> also, I really like this announcement's music
16:03:07 <nsh> .gs i had a * but i'd spend it all
16:03:08 <chandler> [[[
16:03:08 <phenny> i had a * but i'd spend it all: million dollars (6)
16:03:09 <chandler> The most recent supernova in our Galaxy, known as G1.9+0.3, has been discovered by tracking the rapid expansion of its remains.
16:03:12 <chandler> This result, using NASA's Chandra X-ray Observatory and NRAO's Very Large Array (VLA), has implications for understanding how
16:03:16 <chandler> often supernovas explode in the Milky Way galaxy.
16:03:17 <chandler> ]]]
16:03:18 <sbp> chandler: aha, thanks
16:03:19 <chandler> ]]
16:03:47 <thelsdj> BOOOOOOOOOORING
16:04:00 <sbp> .wik G1.9+0.3
16:04:01 <phenny> Can't find anything in Wikipedia for "G1.9+0.3".
16:04:13 <chandler> .g "G1.9+0.3"
16:04:13 <phenny> chandler: http://www.mrao.cam.ac.uk/surveys/snrs/snrs.G1.9+0.3.html
16:04:14 <sbp> http://www.mrao.cam.ac.uk/surveys/snrs/snrs.G1.9+0.3.html
16:04:23 <sbp> also:
16:04:24 <sbp> .title http://arxiv.org/abs/0803.1487
16:04:26 <phenny> sbp: [0803.1487] The Youngest Galactic Supernova Remnant: G1.9+0.3
16:04:28 <sbp> somewhat more useful
16:04:47 <sbp> “We attribute the size difference to expansion between 1985 and our Chandra observations of 2007. Expansion is confirmed in comparing radio images from 1985 and 2008. We deduce that G1.9+0.3 is of order 100 years old -- the youngest supernova remnant in the Galaxy.”
16:04:51 <sbp> submitted 10th March
16:05:26 <chandler> you can watch on NASA TV too
16:05:42 <chandler> oh, it's not the teleconference, just a video program about the discovery
16:05:49 <chandler> is probably more interesting than the conference, though
16:06:09 <sbp> phenny: tell Morbus it was about the discovery of the youngest supernova remnant. chandler scooped the official announcement by finding ftp://ftp.hq.nasa.gov/pub/pao/tv-advisory/nasa-tv.txt - and thence to http://arxiv.org/abs/0803.1487 which is a 10th March (old news!) paper about it
16:06:09 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when Morbus is around.
16:06:47 <sbp> chandler: how did you find that, by the way?
16:06:52 <nsh> YOU THE CHEAT
16:06:56 <selggig> it's rather pretty
16:06:59 * nsh runs to bookie's
16:07:04 <sbp> now that we know what they're going to say, I wonder if they'd play the music for a bit longer?
16:07:05 <sbp> nsh: ehheh
16:07:34 <sbp> selggig: agreed
16:07:42 <chandler> sbp: I looked at the NASA TV schedule
16:07:45 <sbp> it looks like an aurora from space
16:07:49 <chandler> sbp: http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/MM_NTV_Schedule.html
16:07:53 <sbp> aha, thanks
16:07:55 <selggig> http://chandra.harvard.edu/photo/2008/g19/media/
16:08:44 <sbp> oh, well found. I was going by the piccies in the paper
16:09:05 <sbp> Fig 4 is great. wonder if there's a larger version somewhere
16:09:54 <nsh> whoa @ figure 11
16:10:07 *** leobard has quit ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
16:10:18 <nsh> which phenethylamine did they get those colours from?!
16:10:22 <sbp> ooh
16:11:09 <sbp> ah! http://chandra.harvard.edu/resources/handouts/lithos/hist_remnants.pdf
16:11:33 * Arnia reads up on gumstix
16:12:49 <sbp> .head http://chandra.harvard.edu/photo/2008/g19/g19_Zoom_lg_web.mov
16:12:50 <phenny> sbp: 200, video/quicktime, 2008-05-13 20:02:48 UTC, 38834773 bytes
16:13:53 *** ja (n=c@c-71-232-26-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #swhack
16:14:40 <sbp> .title http://www.badastronomy.com/bablog/2008/05/14/youngest-galactic-supernova-not-aliens-found/
16:14:45 <phenny> sbp: HTTP Error 403
16:15:06 <thelsdj> 1 to 2 MINUTES!
16:15:11 <sbp> PLEASE CONTINUE TO STANDBY, THE CONFERENCE WILL BEGIN IN ONE TO TWO MINUTES
16:15:30 <sbp> “It kind of looks like a baby head swaddled in a blanket. Or a really bad drawing of Caesar.”
16:16:01 *** idickinson has parted #swhack ()
16:16:19 <sbp> the badastronomy.com writeup is pretty informative
16:16:39 <sbp> [[[
16:16:39 <sbp> we should be able to predict how often one should go off. The answer is, about three per century, more or less.
16:16:39 <sbp> But observationally, it’s been more less than more. That is, the last one we know of that blew up in the galaxy was over 400 years ago. That’s been a major pain for astronomers; statistically speaking, it’s a little weird that we haven’t seen one since the 1600s.
16:16:39 <sbp> But that’s changed. After searching for literally decades, astronomers have found a supernova in our galaxy! It’s official name is G1.9+0.3, which doesn’t exactly make your heart sing, I know. But it’s very cool.
16:16:41 <sbp> ]]]
16:18:55 <sbp> and, “It’s been a mystery for a long time why we haven’t seen any young remnants — we expect there to be 60 of them younger than 2000 years, but only 10 are known — and now that we’ve seen this one we know they’re out there, but really just a pain to detect”
16:19:28 <sbp> heh, people talking in the background
16:19:32 <sbp> and a klunk noise
16:19:38 <sbp> and there we go
16:19:42 <sbp> LISTEN ONLY MODE
16:19:45 <nsh> you're a klink noise
16:19:47 <sbp> *1? cool
16:20:04 <nsh> *klunk*
16:20:05 <nsh> damn that
16:20:10 <nsh> 's a hard word to type
16:20:29 <nsh> at least after an asterisk on a finnish keyboard
16:20:37 <nsh> which is olympian enough a task
16:21:16 <sbp> hehe
16:21:18 <procto> #talis is quiet... :(
16:21:27 <procto> I wanna use http://convert.test.talis.com/
16:21:32 <procto> but the .test. worries me
16:21:40 <procto> I don't want it to go away randomly
16:22:17 <sbp> this is a great conference. it's so old-school
16:22:28 <sbp> sounds like someone's giving it over a transatlanic phone from 1975
16:22:45 <sbp> it's not the same as bitcrunch audio mush
16:22:50 <sbp> I think he really is doing it over a phone
16:23:04 <Morbus> i was hoping for something cooler.
16:23:04 <phenny> Morbus: 16:54Z <sbp> tell Morbus it was about the discovery of the youngest supernova remnant. chandler scooped the official announcement by finding ftp://ftp.hq.nasa.gov/pub/pao/tv-advisory/nasa-tv.txt - and thence to http://arxiv.org/abs/0803.1487 which is a 10th March (old news!) paper about it
16:23:12 <Morbus> sbp: thanks.
16:23:20 <sbp> something cooler: like what?
16:23:44 <nsh> PSYPODS
16:23:52 * nsh goes the home now
16:23:57 <Morbus> i dunno. cylons or daleks or something.
16:24:12 <Morbus> (no, i'm kidding).
16:24:16 <nsh> oh man, announcestart
16:24:22 <nsh> i stay the listen
16:24:26 * Morbus wanders off.
16:25:06 <procto> whatcha listenink to?
16:25:51 <nsh> http://www.nasa.gov/ram/67946main_audioconf.ram
16:26:50 <sbp> grow up to be cosmic rays - hehe
16:26:54 <sbp> woah, the British guy
16:27:08 * nsh must be a few minutes behind
16:27:29 <procto> is it on the super nova?
16:27:48 <nsh> yupus
16:28:45 <thelsdj> procto: http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2008/05/liveblog-nasa-a.html (if you don't want to listen)
16:29:45 <Arnia> .title http://cswww.essex.ac.uk/staff/owen/research.htm
16:29:48 <phenny> Arnia: Owen Holland
16:30:08 <Arnia> Hm... anyway, the flying web-server swarm is what I'm pointing to
16:30:13 <nsh> A Valid Scientific Enterprise, eh
16:31:44 <nsh> Monty: remind me in 2 hours to read http://cswww.essex.ac.uk/staff/owen/research.htm
16:31:45 <Monty> nsh: Okay, I'll remind you about that on Wed May 14 20:21:07 BST 2008
16:32:32 * procto is listening
16:32:55 <procto> Arnia: I rather ineptly introduced the idea of active web yesterday to disdain from all quarters :>
16:33:08 <Arnia> hm
16:33:19 <procto> you're going to have to do your own evangelizing. I'm not up to it at my level of oratory
16:33:48 <Arnia> Can you describe more precisely what happened?
16:33:56 <procto> hehe
16:33:56 <procto> well
16:34:13 <procto> you can talk to MacTed about it
16:34:16 <procto> he was skeptical
16:34:19 <sbp> hahaha
16:34:27 <sbp> “And the VLA, like Dave, was quite young then.”
16:34:32 <procto> slightly about active web, and mostly about your dislike of the semantic web
16:34:33 <procto> :>
16:34:52 <Arnia> The Semantic Web, not the semantic web
16:34:56 <procto> yes
16:34:57 <procto> that's what I said
16:35:11 <Arnia> Difficult thing to say in causal conversation
16:35:13 <ja> remember to use 'towards' a lot, a long with 'active', 'robust', and web 4.0 buzzwords like provable and consistent
16:35:20 <procto> I said "capital Semantic Web"
16:35:21 <Arnia> Er... casual. Although causal is difficult too
16:35:24 <sbp> “you cannot see the mushrooms at the centre of the pizza, because of all the mozzerella cheese”
16:35:32 <selggig> mmm pizza
16:35:44 <ja> sounds like a Chicago pizza
16:35:47 <procto> Arnia: I have long experience bungling talking on the subject, so I try to be very clear :>
16:35:50 <ja> shrooms buried under 2" of cheese
16:35:51 <sbp> .wik Ricardo Duconi
16:35:52 <phenny> Can't find anything in Wikipedia for "Ricardo Duconi".
16:36:08 <Arnia> ja: part of the point is that it *isn't* provable or consistent but rather accepts that those aren't properties of human communication
16:36:30 <sbp> .wik Riccardo Giacconi
16:36:31 <phenny> "Riccardo Giacconi (born October 6, 1931) is an Italian-born American Nobel Prize-winning astrophysicist." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riccardo_Giacconi
16:37:38 <Arnia> MacTed: any comment to add? ;)
16:37:54 <sbp> the reporters are gonna pipe up
16:38:28 <ja> 'true value' as some kind of floating point value bugs me. hopefully that bit of nars doesnt live on :)
16:38:37 <ja> 'this statement is 74% truthful'
16:38:39 <sbp> HELLO RACHEL COURTLAND YOU'RE ON THE AIR
16:38:53 <sbp> pfft, they're not giving their agency affiliations
16:39:05 <ja> NASA TV?
16:39:11 * ja searches for mms link
16:39:11 <xover> No black hole? Pfft!
16:39:16 <sbp> well, listening on the radio feed
16:39:27 <sbp> it's a blower, not a sucker
16:39:43 <Arnia> ja: you're misinterpreting what the truth values mean
16:40:24 * nsh is dubious
16:40:27 <Arnia> ja: A truth value has two components, a frequency and a confidence. The frequency is simply the measure of positive evidence over all evidence regarding a statement
16:40:35 <ja> k, will read more. i do want to push out a proto server w/ ASK/TELL/GREET etc soon
16:40:58 <procto> what?
16:40:59 <selggig> LOL
16:41:01 <procto> moon crickets?
16:41:01 <Monty> morning
16:41:03 <sbp> moon crickets?
16:41:06 <thelsdj> MOOON CRICKETS!
16:41:12 <Arnia> The confidence is the ratio of total evidence to total evidence plus horizon
16:41:13 <nsh> MOOOOOOOON CRICKEETETEETTTS
16:41:13 <procto> .....
16:41:20 <thelsdj> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=moon+cricket
16:41:27 <Arnia> ja: it isn't making a statement about the external world's 'truth'... just about the system's experience of the world
16:41:30 <procto> ahahahahahaha
16:41:36 <procto> this is horrible
16:41:43 <sbp> Schwoogi? Swoogy supernova?
16:41:44 <sbp> hehe
16:41:52 <thelsdj> is it safe to listen again?
16:42:03 <Arnia> The use of a pair of rational numbers just makes it easier to process... the 'meaning' is still a load of observations
16:42:11 <sbp> yeah
16:42:29 <procto> thelsdj: yes
16:42:37 <procto> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=shwoogy
16:42:47 <procto> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Shwoogie
16:42:51 <procto> the latter one
16:42:54 <procto> horrible
16:42:55 <sbp> hmm. badastronomy said that the density of surrounding material might be high
16:42:59 <sbp> because it's asymmetric
16:43:10 <sbp> procto: aha
16:43:17 <nsh> procto:
16:43:29 <nsh> there's a wonder showzen cartoon that applies here
16:44:13 <sbp> "we did get nervous enough to run a hydrodynamic simulation"
16:44:35 <Arnia> ja: so when you say that dog --> animal with frequency 0.9, you're not saying anything about external reality directly. You're just making a statement about the observations you've made
16:44:57 <sbp> but how can you even quantify your own experience?
16:44:58 <procto> so Arnia is a bayesian :>
16:45:38 <nsh> wtf
16:45:40 <sbp> surely there'll be a level of accuracy, a +/- factor
16:45:43 <nsh> at first question
16:45:44 <Arnia> ja: it isn't that some realist concept 'dog' inherits from some realist concept 'animal' with truth of 0.9. Truth, in an objectivist sense doesn't exist
16:45:48 <Arnia> sbp: confidence
16:45:49 <nsh> oh man
16:45:51 <nsh> moon crickets
16:45:51 <Monty> http://www.godscountrycamo.com/
16:45:55 <nsh> damn that's nasty
16:46:17 <Arnia> sbp: I'm going to be writing an article on this bit
16:46:28 <sbp> “God's Country Camouflage allows the outdoor enthusiast to make a statement of their Christian faith as well as their passion for the outdoor sporting tradition.”
16:46:39 <sbp> Arnia: cool. for conference/etc., or on TABA?
16:46:51 <Arnia> sbp: but I need to think some more about how best to explain it to people who aren't in love with semantics to the same degree as myself.
16:46:59 <sbp> heh, heh
16:47:00 <Arnia> sbp: for a journal article I think
16:47:06 <sbp> m'kay
16:47:30 <Arnia> I'm going to be using the two different ways to give non-axiomatic semantics to RDF to illustrate just this difference
16:48:24 <sbp> look at all six thousand, man!
16:48:32 <Arnia> ?
16:48:47 <sbp> sorry, talking to the NASA panelists
16:49:03 <Arnia> ah
16:49:24 <Arnia> .title http://ace.uci.edu/~gelliott/personalsoundtrack
16:49:26 <phenny> Arnia: SynchStep - Greg Elliott
16:49:38 <thelsdj> i'm sure they'll edit out the moon crickets, i wonder if someone got a recording
16:49:54 <sbp> “synchstep (now for the iPhone & iPod Touch) plays songs from your music library that match your pace. Every step you take lands in-time with a drum hit, a bass pluck, a piano chord”
16:50:04 <sbp> thelsdj: I was thinking about making a recording
16:50:13 <sbp> but I didn't think about it quick enough; it had already started by then
16:50:16 <sbp> so I didn't bother
16:50:29 <nsh> ok, really going home now
16:50:30 <nsh> peace
16:50:31 <ja> mplayer -dumpstream -dumpfile heh.rm rtsp://a1870.l1856736230.c18567.g.lr.akamaistream.net/live/D/1870/18567/v0001/reflector:36230
16:50:32 *** nsh has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.82 [Firefox 2.0.0.14/2008040413]")
16:50:35 <ja> missed the cricket chat tho
16:50:36 <sbp> c;...
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16:51:04 <Arnia> ja: what exactly did you think NARS would move beyond to?
16:51:05 *** bjoern_ (n=bjoern@dslb-084-057-250-218.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #swhack
16:51:12 <sbp> nice site style on synchstep
16:51:14 <Arnia> wow, so much elision I thought I was Greek
16:51:37 <ja> Arnia: well your brief description saved me reading a half dozen PS files, thanks. i still dont think i grasp the concept yet :)
16:51:53 <Arnia> Well, NAL is an evidential logic
16:51:53 <Monty> name was the hell?
16:52:05 <sbp> not hell, Monty. NAL
16:52:08 <Monty> I reckon brats + magic = techno megabyte.
16:52:19 <Arnia> Truth is defined only relative to a reasoner's experience
16:52:28 <sbp> hey, Robert Johnson's on the line
16:52:36 <sbp> but he doesn't appear to have a question
16:52:43 <thelsdj> :(
16:53:13 <procto> wtf
16:53:17 <procto> ahahahaha
16:53:19 <selggig> O.o
16:53:29 <sbp> hehe. "aw, fuck. FUCK. [beep bop boop bip boop]. HELLO! HEY I WANNA TALK TO YOU GUYS! [something about vagina?] HELLO?"
16:53:31 <thelsdj> hahahah
16:53:36 <thelsdj> or was that china?
16:53:38 <sbp> not very well managed, this
16:53:50 <deltab> Monty: wow, you watch The Tribe?
16:53:50 <Monty> lol, we were discussing you not me!
16:53:52 <sbp> "Well apart from a couple of Loonies, I thought that went quite well!"
16:54:00 <ja> one of those 'lolchan' groups is spamming it
16:54:09 <ja> 'for the lulz'
16:54:14 <ja> i want to hear the science :/
16:54:49 <Arnia> The science?
16:54:56 <thelsdj> 10:30: Young sounding guy gets on the Q&A line and asks, ""Does this discovery have the potential to get the moon crickets shipped off Earth?" WTF? say the scientists in nicer, longer words. Anyone know what that was about?
16:55:00 <thelsdj> 10:36: Commenter answers: "'Moon Crickets' and 'Swoogies' (ED: which the questioner also said) are racial slurs." Yikes: how'd that guy get the dial-in number?) The scientists are discussing the difficulty of finding supernovae in the galactic haystack. Also, added more NASA pictures after the jump.
16:55:05 <thelsdj> (from the wired blog)
16:55:25 <sbp> Commenter?
16:55:30 <sbp> I didn't hear anyone on the call note that
16:55:33 <thelsdj> someone on the blog comments i think
16:55:37 <sbp> aha
16:55:59 <procto> someone on the comments correctly noticed that the first pic looks a lot like the firefox logo
16:56:22 <sbp> hey, Wired liked the music too!
16:56:24 <sbp> “9:57 AM: Headset on. Excellent classical music on the hold line. (Vivaldi, maybe?)”
16:56:25 * MacTed returns from lunch errands and notices 10 minutes old chatter...
16:56:32 <thelsdj> i'm still listening
16:56:38 <sbp> yeah, me too
16:56:38 <thelsdj> trying to make out the talking in the background
16:56:42 <sbp> just people chatting on the background
16:56:43 <sbp> hehe, yeah
16:56:51 <MacTed> Arnia, procto - I don't think the Capital Semantic Web was clear in the conversation last evening
16:56:58 <sbp> "Lily"?
16:57:05 <thelsdj> "no"
16:57:10 <sbp> something about body... Friday...
16:57:26 <sbp> "you guys should be"
16:57:49 <sbp> "not sure"
16:58:16 <selggig> did they just forget to hang up?
16:58:19 <Arnia> MacTed: my issue is that the wedding cake focuses on the wrong things, and I'm not convinced it will scale in terms of users
16:58:21 <sbp> it's two guys, apparently
16:58:22 <MacTed> the name "semantic web" isn't necessarily the best, if one comes from a linguistic background ... I tend to follow my boss's lead, and talk more about the "Linked Data Web" or the "Web of Data", which describes it better
16:58:31 <sbp> sounds more like one guy forgot to hang up and that's the talking int he background
16:59:01 <sbp> MacTed: the question isn't about the name, it's about the W3C's conception of the technologies, the Semantic Web stack, the groups chartered to work on it, etc.
16:59:28 * Arnia thinks the idea of a web of data is fairly boring anyway
16:59:36 <thelsdj> i got my pki application
16:59:44 <sbp> "I got my PKI application. usually go to the fourth floor and get it stamped"
16:59:48 <thelsdj> hahah
16:59:52 <MacTed> well, from a user's perspective, it *is* boring and over-technical
16:59:52 <sbp> "she was at headquarters this morning"
16:59:57 <sbp> "had to go to the lobby still"
17:00:13 <MacTed> but from a perspective of enabling technologies, it opens all sorts of doors ... from where I sit, anyway
17:00:23 <sbp> the shrill guy is a lot easier to hear
17:00:25 <MacTed> what do you see as broken in the W3C conception, etc.?
17:00:27 <sbp> "do you have any indication"
17:00:35 <thelsdj> going to stop listening, need to watch new zero punctuation
17:00:37 <Arnia> MacTed: not just from a user's perspective. It isn't revolutionary technically, and is based on philosophical assumptions which the Web is itself involved in debunking
17:00:52 <thelsdj> http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/zeropunctuation/4902-Zero-Punctuation-Grand-Theft-Auto-IV
17:00:56 <sbp> ooh, ZP
17:01:04 <sbp> .g PKI-application
17:01:04 <deltab> + GTA IV!
17:01:05 <phenny> sbp: http://moneyandcards.com/main/EN/Products/Telekom/PKI/index.html
17:01:07 <Arnia> But I need to smoke before I get into this
17:01:19 <Arnia> Anything and everything to keep myself awake
17:01:20 <MacTed> Arnia - how do you reconcile that with TimBL's comments in Beijing?
17:02:46 <procto> MacTed: in that case I apologize
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17:02:49 <thelsdj> "the worlds toughest poplar tree"
17:03:19 <procto> MacTed: I'm pretty sure I specified that explicitely at some point, but I may have not and just thought I did
17:03:22 <MacTed> procto - no worries. it starts another conversation... :-)
17:03:42 <thelsdj> atleast he took advantage of phytobraking!
17:05:12 *** cre8radix has quit ()
17:06:07 <thelsdj> Grand Theft Biggleswade
17:06:47 <sbp> deep throat a hotdog. indistinct dark blob factory
17:07:10 <sbp> this wasn't a shiningly brilliant one
17:07:11 <Arnia> MacTed: I believe that Web Science is important. I believe that linked data is interesting in itself. I do not believe the wedding cake is the right way to go about it.
17:07:18 <sbp> but I expect next week's review of Wii Mario Kart will be better
17:07:45 <thelsdj> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Biggleswade&diff=212387891&oldid=207161924
17:07:59 <Arnia> MacTed: like many (most) 'rational' people, I believe he is to a degree blinded by the assumptions of objectivist semantics
17:08:25 <sbp> hehe
17:08:40 <Arnia> MacTed: it took me, myself, several years to step outside those assumptions and realise they just do not apply in a system like the Web
17:08:58 <sbp> MacTed: me too, incidentally
17:09:00 <procto> MacTed: there we go, there's that "other" semantics
17:09:08 <sbp> MacTed: but when I realised, I wasn't quite as eloquent as Arnia
17:09:18 <sbp> MacTed: I was more like SEMANTIC WEB SUX FOO
17:09:26 <Arnia> MacTed: I'm concerned that we're pissing in the wind with the wedding cake; building technologies which aren't just not-good-enough, but which are entirely in the wrong direction.
17:09:49 <sbp> MacTed: are you still there even?
17:10:26 <sbp> thelsdj: “Richard Walker, angling journalist, author and photographer, described as having the greatest influence on the sport since Isaac Walton. Richard Walker has an angling shop dedicated to him in the local town centre”
17:11:04 <thelsdj> ha
17:13:14 <thelsdj> http://artofmanliness.com/2008/05/14/100-must-read-books-the-essential-mans-library/
17:13:31 <sbp> Kim Catrall (sp?) is on Paul O'Grady
17:13:43 <sbp> and she's sitting on a chair in front of a caravan whilst they all chat about caravans
17:13:48 <sbp> woah
17:13:51 <sbp> Sheryl Crow!
17:18:50 *** Monty2 (n=monty@jibble.plus.com) has joined #swhack
17:19:07 <sbp> HOCKEY TREE
17:19:24 *** nsh (n=nsh@87-94-155-173.tampere.customers.dnainternet.fi) has joined #swhack
17:20:36 * Arnia thinks we've scared MacTed away
17:21:42 <nsh> mangs, the sky was seventeen distinct theatres of fucking immensity as i was walking home
17:21:42 <Monty2> potty mouth!
17:21:45 <sbp> ahaha, King of the Hill moment on the Simpsons
17:21:51 <sbp> yo nsh!
17:22:02 <nsh> i've seen some sublimely beautiful sky before, but this was breathtaking
17:22:02 <nsh> eiyos
17:25:24 *** cre8radix (n=cre8radi@p54BE6BE4.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #swhack
17:26:21 * nsh stares at http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cc/Alpha_Stirling.gif
17:29:35 <sbp> perpetual motion!
17:30:47 *** Monty has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17:30:50 <MacTed> sorry, the hazards of being at work! :-)
17:31:13 <nsh> .gs hazmat *
17:31:14 <phenny> hazmat *: modine (9), suits (7), hotzone (6), team (5), diamond (4), toolkit (3), incidents (3), 101 (3), violations (2), training (2), teams (2), tabletop (2)
17:31:35 <MacTed> Arnia - which tech of the wedding cake do you see as wrong-direction? and why?
17:32:06 <MacTed> I can see room for some questions about scaling, certainly, but I also see room for successfully answering them
17:34:38 <thelsdj> shit, hate it when i can't find a link i know exists
17:35:07 <thelsdj> there was an article on gizmodo ( i think ) about some japanese companies engine design that had a similar animated gif, but was cooler
17:35:27 <thelsdj> but searching gizmodo for engine isn't helping
17:36:33 * nsh empathises
17:38:39 <sbp> “apologies for the technical problems we had during the middle of the Simpsons”
17:38:53 <sbp> all that happened is that they didn't show the commercials!
17:38:56 <sbp> which was fucking brilliant
17:40:08 <nsh> haha
17:40:21 <nsh> should write them and say "please moar technical difficulties"
17:40:33 <sbp> hehe
17:40:37 <sbp> damn straight
17:40:44 <nsh> ooo
17:40:45 <nsh> i has idea
17:40:59 <nsh> we hax up all adverts to make the kids seizure asplode
17:41:40 <nsh> and then the huge manantee will stop broadcast marketing
17:41:45 <sbp> won't that hurt people and cause them pain though?
17:41:50 <nsh> and mankind will explore the inner and outer space in peace forever
17:41:51 <nsh> or something
17:41:57 <nsh> OMELETTES, EGGS
17:41:58 <sbp> what about the *middle* space man?
17:42:00 <nsh> that's fulla astrohobbits
17:42:07 * nsh chuckles
17:42:08 <sbp> NASA should throw a conference every day
17:42:15 <nsh> agree
17:42:18 <sbp> also, why can you throw a party but hold a conference?
17:42:24 <sbp> I say we hold parties and throw conferences
17:42:42 <nsh> also agree
17:42:50 <Arnia> MacTed: RDF isn't explicit enough with notions like conceptual spaces and modality which frame most human knowledge, OWL has a boolean, objectivist semantics and is node-oriented rather than link oriented, trust is entirely in the wrong layer, there is a worrying focus on the idea of proof, and generally the architecture is built with machines in mind, not people
17:43:08 <Arnia> And that's fundamentally the wrong direction in my opinion
17:43:08 <nsh> woah
17:43:34 * nsh missed the memo on how conceptual spaces and modality frame most human knowledge?
17:43:42 <MacTed> Arnia - have you looked at UMBEL yet?
17:43:55 <nsh> (go the memo on not deleting question marks after sentence revision though)
17:44:09 <sbp> yeah, I missed that one too?
17:44:34 <MacTed> I think those are less weaknesses of RDF or even OWL, than that there's not enough data in either yet
17:44:46 <MacTed> UMBEL should go a few steps toward changing that
17:44:47 <nsh> damn
17:44:51 <sbp> not enough data?!
17:44:57 <nsh> my oven makes weird smells
17:44:58 <Arnia> nsh: I do not see anything controversial in that statement. Experiments in cognitive science have shown the role of conceptual spaces and their blends and modal connections in human knowledge representation
17:45:02 <sbp> so, like, trillions rather than billions?
17:45:09 <sbp> (of triples)
17:45:28 <MacTed> sbp - not just in raw counts of triples, but in breadth of concept-spaces, and depth of those as well
17:45:35 <Arnia> nsh: for a very readable account, see Mark Turner's book "The Literary Mind"
17:45:55 <Arnia> MacTed: entirely the wrong semantics
17:46:06 <Arnia> More data won't help
17:46:13 <MacTed> Arnia - I'm not grokking your argument.
17:46:27 <Arnia> I'm not grokking yours either
17:46:47 * nsh exudes dubiosity while checking the oven
17:46:50 <MacTed> I mean ... things like "generally the architecture is built with machines in mind" -- as is XML ... but when the machines can work with the data, then the people can manipulate the machines, and get useful results...
17:47:05 <MacTed> an internal combustion engine isn't built with people in mind either
17:47:07 *** ja has quit ("leaving")
17:47:07 <sbp> [[[
17:47:09 <sbp> W-O-W-Y is the shorthand we apply to the semantic framework for meeting these UMBEL objectives. W-O-W-Y is derived from the constituent UMBEL building blocks of WordNet (W), OpenCyc (O), Wikipedia (W) and YAGO (Y). Each resource contributes in a different way.
17:47:10 <sbp> ]]]
17:47:31 <Arnia> MacTed: but they can't, because the semantics of RDF and OWL is consistent
17:47:45 <Arnia> MacTed: it presumes a notion of universal truth; a set of 'true beliefs'
17:48:12 * Arnia suspects a slight social engineering bias here from many researchers
17:48:18 <Arnia> At least unconsciously
17:48:22 <MacTed> ah, you're presuming that provenance isn't available as an element of the data being analyzed
17:48:24 <Arnia> MacTed: No, I'm not
17:48:45 <thelsdj> .title http://www.flickr.com/photos/arbernaut/2476955162/
17:48:46 <phenny> thelsdj: The Day There Was No News on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
17:48:47 <Arnia> There is just too little space in the semantics to allow a proper account of evidence-based computation
17:48:54 <MacTed> "Arnia says 'RDF presumes a notion of universal truth'" there's one triple
17:49:21 * sbp reads http://www.umbel.org/issues.xhtml and starts to wonder if the Semantic Web is post-modernist
17:49:58 <Arnia> MacTed: uh... that isn't one triple
17:50:00 <Arnia> and that isn't the point
17:50:04 <nsh> nothing built from wordnet will ever be cool.
17:50:04 <MacTed> how much more space do you need than ?s ?p ?o to say anything?
17:50:45 <sbp> Arnia: he's probably thinking if you cheat and encoding part of the meaning in English. :Arnia :says "some literal" . is one triple
17:51:01 <MacTed> exactly -- ?s = Arinia ?p = says ?o "statement"
17:51:09 <MacTed> optimally, "statement" would also be a triple; forgive my shorthanding
17:51:58 * nsh mehs his way out of the nonversation
17:52:01 <sbp> MacTed: how would it be a triple?
17:52:01 <Arnia> MacTed: semantic space, as in the space of valuation
17:52:02 <sbp> reification?
17:52:12 <sbp> if so, note that you can't reify properly in RDF
17:52:12 <MacTed> *sighs* OK
17:52:14 <Arnia> (be that across experience, as in evidential logics, or across a true world, like in objectivist semantics)
17:52:14 <sbp> you'd have to use a named graph or something
17:52:22 <sbp> the concept for which only exists in SPARQL, not any RDF interchange language
17:52:31 <sbp> or Formulae, the concept for which is non-standardised
17:52:35 <MacTed> http://invalid/#Arnia http://invalid/#says http://invalid/#blah
17:52:55 * sbp recalls Ginsparg's Law...
17:52:57 <MacTed> forcing use of URIs for conceptual discussion breaks a lot of comprehension
17:53:24 <Arnia> With any finite number of truth values, you immediately crash and burn
17:53:36 <Arnia> ... the moment two people may potentially disagree
17:54:06 <sbp> who's forcing use of URIs for conceptual discussion?
17:54:07 * Arnia hates stray returns
17:54:57 <sbp> MacTed: you do understand that you can't model reified assertions at the standard triples level in