2008-05-17 Swhack IRC Log

00:01:55 <_bjoern> Yes you can.
00:11:44 <therethinker> I dun wannaz
00:11:59 <therethinker> it messes up my logs
00:15:03 *** MoiraA has quit (Remote closed the connection)
00:17:00 <_bjoern> ur logs 0r oua logz u decide
00:17:11 <_bjoern> then w3 pwn u
00:18:22 *** MoiraA (i=moira@tor/regular/pdpc.supporter.active.MoiraA) has joined #swhack
00:20:34 <therethinker> MoriaA! I'm still here
00:20:48 <_bjoern> MoiraA, therethinker is still here.
00:21:12 <therethinker> See! _bjoern's excited! :D
00:22:04 <MoiraA> hello therethinker
00:22:04 * MoiraA is confuzzled
00:22:17 <MoiraA> did I tell everyone you had disappeared?
00:22:17 <MoiraA> where is sbp more to the point
00:22:17 * MoiraA will send email
00:22:29 <therethinker> You shall be until I free thee from thine spell
00:22:30 <Monty> persnickety pedestrian porn palm pullover: 2,030
00:22:56 <_bjoern> he's asleep since about 4 hours now, and for another 4 at least I'd think.
00:23:13 <_bjoern> without persnickety youd get a gc of 2030 Monty.
00:23:16 <Monty> Is it not possible to despise keybinded rubbish dumps, apparently.
00:23:24 <_bjoern> Yes it is possible Monty.
00:23:27 <Monty> :qw! is presumably had had disconnected 15 times
00:23:40 <_bjoern> Monty: then switch to emacs.
00:23:41 <Monty> wat
00:23:50 <therethinker> Yeah, who knew he used vi...
00:23:51 <_bjoern> Monty: I'm serious, you should try it!
00:23:53 <Monty> I reckon houseplant + Vanessa Feltz = Miss Piggy?!
00:23:56 <therethinker> /vim
00:24:02 <therethinker> .gc I reckon houseplant + Vanessa Feltz = Miss Piggy?!
00:24:04 <phenny> I reckon houseplant + Vanessa Feltz = Miss Piggy?!: 1
00:24:10 <_bjoern> .g I reckon houseplant + Vanessa Feltz = Miss Piggy?!
00:24:12 <phenny> _bjoern: http://personal.cis.strath.ac.uk/~mdd/teaching/ac/77k.txt
00:24:13 <_bjoern> .title
00:24:14 <phenny> _bjoern: Document isn't HTML
00:24:21 <MoiraA> therethinker: you suddenly into witchcraft?
00:24:28 <therethinker> ...
00:24:30 <therethinker> maybe...
00:24:38 * therethinker oogles and boogles
00:24:45 <_bjoern> 0000172 BRILLIANT
00:24:45 <_bjoern> 0000172 AUTUMN
00:24:45 <_bjoern> 0000172 AMATEUR
00:24:45 <_bjoern> 0000171 TRIUMPH
00:24:45 <_bjoern> 0000171 TIM
00:24:45 <_bjoern> 0000171 ROME
00:24:45 <Monty> Coverage for help pagerang.
00:24:47 <_bjoern> 0000171 PREFER
00:24:49 <_bjoern> 0000171 MEDIUM
00:24:51 <_bjoern> 0000171 INTELLIGENCE
00:24:53 <_bjoern> Yeah who doesn't.
00:25:45 <therethinker> heh
00:25:52 <therethinker> I wonder what this is
00:27:03 <mahound> phenny: "vou dormir" ?
00:27:33 <therethinker> phenny: "vous dormir"?
00:27:35 <phenny> therethinker: "vous to sleep" (pt)
00:27:44 <mahound> phenny: "vou dormir"?
00:27:46 <phenny> mahound: "i go to sleep" (pt)
00:27:52 <therethinker> pt?
00:27:54 <mahound> that's right :P
00:27:57 <mahound> portuguese
00:27:59 <_bjoern> .wik pt
00:27:59 <phenny> "Capital Cargo International Airlines IATA airline designator" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pt
00:28:00 <therethinker> ah
00:28:16 <therethinker> pretty damn close to fr
00:28:24 <mahound> phenny: "je vais dormir"?
00:28:28 <therethinker> AND I'M ALWAYS RIGHT
00:28:28 <phenny> mahound: "i will sleep" (fr)
00:28:42 <therethinker> phenny: "je dormirais"?
00:28:43 <phenny> therethinker: I think it's Croatian, which I can't translate.
00:28:46 <_bjoern> "I go to bed" would be the regular german.
00:28:51 <therethinker> nono...
00:28:51 <mahound> phenny: "me voy a dormir"?
00:28:53 <phenny> mahound: "i am going away to sleep" (es)
00:29:13 * mahound goes to sleep
00:29:28 <_bjoern> good night mahound
00:29:52 <therethinker> Yeah, leave us
00:29:57 <mahound> thanks :)
00:30:15 <_bjoern> (we never liked you anyway, so you might aswell leave)
00:30:33 <therethinker> Yeah
00:30:50 <mahound> :/
00:31:00 <therethinker> Go die!!!
00:31:00 <therethinker> ...said therethinker mahound's session...
00:31:02 <_bjoern> Didn't you want to go to bed?
00:31:11 <therethinker> Yeah...
00:31:12 <_bjoern> You aren't supposed to be reading this.
00:31:15 <therethinker> YEAH
00:31:19 * mahound dies silently
00:31:24 <therethinker> nono, just your session
00:31:34 <therethinker> don't die
00:31:34 <therethinker> ...said therethinker to mahound himself...
00:31:39 <_bjoern> Good, I hate it when they die noisily.
00:31:55 <therethinker> maybe there'll be a netsplit...
00:32:02 * therethinker cues netsplit...
00:32:08 <_bjoern> phenny, de "Aberglaube"?
00:32:09 <phenny> _bjoern: "but faith" (de)
00:32:17 <_bjoern> superstition?
00:32:22 <therethinker> heh
00:32:22 <_bjoern> Ooh I like butt faith.
00:32:30 <therethinker> .gc ass faith
00:32:31 <phenny> ass faith: 736,000
00:32:56 <_bjoern> .gcs "butt faith" "ass faith" "arse faith"
00:32:58 <phenny> "ass faith" (4,260), "butt faith" (1,100), "arse faith" (96)
00:33:12 <_bjoern> .gc "buttocks faith"
00:33:12 <phenny> "buttocks faith": 14
00:33:25 <therethinker> .gc "asscheaks faith"
00:33:25 <phenny> "asscheaks faith": 0
00:33:51 <therethinker> I smell a new gc game-type coming on!
00:34:02 <_bjoern> omg! write up the rulez.
00:34:26 <_bjoern> "This article may require cleanup to meet Wikipedia's quality standards.
00:34:26 <_bjoern> Please improve this article if you can. (March 2008)
00:34:26 <_bjoern> The tone or style of this article or section may not be appropriate for Wikipedia.
00:34:26 <_bjoern> Specific concerns may be found on the talk page. See Wikipedia's guide to writing better articles for suggestions.(March 2008)
00:34:26 <_bjoern> The neutrality and factual accuracy of this article are disputed.
00:34:26 <therethinker> K
00:34:27 <_bjoern> Please see the relevant discussion on the talk page. (March 2008)
00:34:29 <_bjoern> This article or section may contain original research or unverified claims.
00:34:31 <_bjoern> Please improve the article by adding references. See the talk page for details. (March 2008)" - Wikipedia on Superstition.
00:34:48 <_bjoern> At first I read "Please remove this article if you can".
00:35:01 <therethinker> ABSENCE OF [[[]]] == PHALUUR
00:35:07 <_bjoern> nu
00:35:43 <therethinker> .title http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/05/16/1751206&from=rss
00:35:45 <phenny> therethinker: Slashdot | Shape-Shifting Malware Hits the Web
00:35:53 <therethinker> I'd like to believe that I SINGLHANDEDLY caused this
00:36:21 <_bjoern> No /.masturbation on #swhack.
00:37:18 <_bjoern> .gc EINSUFFICIENTLYSOBER
00:37:18 <phenny> EINSUFFICIENTLYSOBER: 0
00:37:24 <_bjoern> .gc ETOODRUNK
00:37:25 <phenny> ETOODRUNK: 0
00:37:28 <_bjoern> .gc E2DRUNK
00:37:28 <phenny> E2DRUNK: 40
00:37:33 <therethinker> but its trueeee
00:37:33 <_bjoern> there we go
00:37:40 <therethinker> heh
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00:40:24 <_bjoern> "The slashdot synopsis is longer than the article." "It is a clever plan to get people to RTFA. Now people will stop bothering to read the fine summary."
00:40:26 <_bjoern> yo nsh
00:40:33 <_bjoern> .gc nsh therethinker porn
00:40:34 <phenny> nsh therethinker porn: 70
00:41:13 <_bjoern> .gc chrammana
00:41:14 <phenny> chrammana: 2
00:41:18 <_bjoern> .g chrammana
00:41:18 <phenny> _bjoern: http://books.google.com/books?id=AHMEAAAAQAAJ&pg=RA1-PA409&lpg=RA1-PA409&dq=chrammana&source=web&ots=nyu7JpQB2J&sig=B29TjjRcFldFxOAz9LZ0oqRCln0&hl=en
00:41:45 <therethinker> .gc I would like to have a hamburger with extra porn, please.
00:41:45 <_bjoern> .g chrammana chrammana chrammana
00:41:45 <phenny> I would like to have a hamburger with extra porn, please.: 10,200
00:41:48 <phenny> _bjoern: http://books.google.com/books?id=AHMEAAAAQAAJ&pg=RA1-PA409&lpg=RA1-PA409&dq=chrammana+chrammana+chrammana&source=web&ots=nyu7JpQCXG&sig=G-wRwVp2BNd8ty7geWD0cW7sbrs&hl=en
00:41:51 <_bjoern> .gc chrammana chrammana chrammana
00:41:52 <phenny> chrammana chrammana chrammana: 3
00:41:55 <_bjoern> .gc chrammana chrammana chrammana chrammana
00:41:56 <phenny> chrammana chrammana chrammana chrammana: 2
00:41:57 <_bjoern> .gc chrammana chrammana chrammana chrammana chrammana
00:41:58 <phenny> chrammana chrammana chrammana chrammana chrammana: 2
00:42:01 <_bjoern> right.
00:42:40 <_bjoern> .gc Hat er dir den Watzmann gezeigt?
00:42:41 <phenny> Hat er dir den Watzmann gezeigt?: 1,640
00:42:44 <_bjoern> .wik Watzmann
00:42:45 <phenny> "The Watzmann is the third highest [1]| mountain in Germany (Zugspitze is the highest at 2,962m, Hochwanner the second at 2,746m)." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watzmann
00:42:58 <therethinker> .gc a a a a a a a a a a a a
00:42:59 <phenny> a a a a a a a a a a a a: 1,370,000
00:43:01 <therethinker> .gc and
00:43:02 <phenny> and: 12,680,000,000
00:43:05 <therethinker> .gc a
00:43:06 <phenny> a: 18,070,000,000
00:43:08 <_bjoern> .gc "Watzmann" "Gleich hinter Hamburg"
00:43:09 <phenny> "Watzmann" "Gleich hinter Hamburg": 8
00:43:17 <_bjoern> .gc 1..99999999
00:43:17 <phenny> 1..99999999: 0
00:43:24 <_bjoern> oh right the new phenny doesn't support that
00:43:32 <therethinker> heh
00:43:38 <_bjoern> .gc a OR b OR c OR d OR e OR f OR g OR h
00:43:39 <phenny> a OR b OR c OR d OR e OR f OR g OR h: 25,270,000,000
00:43:42 <therethinker> PHENFALE
00:43:51 <therethinker> .gc a OR i
00:43:52 <phenny> a OR i: 25,270,000,000
00:43:56 <therethinker> I win ;p
00:44:04 <_bjoern> I win?
00:44:07 <therethinker> No
00:44:10 <_bjoern> Yes.
00:44:13 <therethinker> I got equal results w/ less terms
00:44:23 <therethinker> .gc " "
00:44:24 <_bjoern> .gc a OR b OR c
00:44:24 <phenny> " ": 0
00:44:24 <phenny> a OR b OR c: 25,270,000,000
00:44:33 <therethinker> .gc a OR b
00:44:34 <phenny> a OR b: 21,390,000,000
00:44:37 <_bjoern> pwnd
00:44:43 <therethinker> .gc a OR i OR e
00:44:44 <phenny> a OR i OR e: 25,270,000,000
00:46:17 <therethinker> http://www.google.com/search?q=a+OR+i&hl=en&start=25000000&sa=N -- a bit odd results
00:46:44 <_bjoern> .gc "Wenn ich ein Vöglein wär und auch noch Flüglein hätt flög ich zu dir"
00:46:44 <phenny> "Wenn ich ein Vöglein wär und auch noch Flüglein hätt flög ich zu dir": 0
00:46:52 <_bjoern> phenny, "Wenn ich ein Vöglein wär und auch noch Flüglein hätt flög ich zu dir"?
00:46:54 <phenny> UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf8' codec can't decode bytes in position 19-21: invalid data (file "/var/www/inamidst.com/htdocs/phenny/modules/translate.py", line 88, in tr)
00:47:06 <_bjoern> OMG
00:47:13 <_bjoern> loggy: pointer?
00:47:13 <loggy> http://swhack.com/logs/2008-05-17#T00-47-13
00:47:20 <_bjoern> phenny, tell sbp http://swhack.com/logs/2008-05-17#T00-47-13
00:47:20 <phenny> _bjoern: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
00:47:37 <_bjoern> .gc "Weiss aber nicht kann sein weiss aber nicht kann sein"
00:47:38 <phenny> "Weiss aber nicht kann sein weiss aber nicht kann sein": 0
00:47:49 <_bjoern> phenny, "Wenn ich ein Vöglein wär"?
00:47:51 <phenny> UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf8' codec can't decode bytes in position 19-20: unexpected end of data (file "/var/www/inamidst.com/htdocs/phenny/modules/translate.py", line 88, in tr)
00:47:55 <_bjoern> .gc "Wenn ich ein Vöglein wär"
00:47:55 <phenny> "Wenn ich ein Vöglein wär": 27,500
00:48:00 <_bjoern> .gc "Wenn ich ein Vöglein wär und"
00:48:01 <phenny> "Wenn ich ein Vöglein wär und": 784
00:48:04 <_bjoern> .gc "Wenn ich ein Vöglein wär und auch"
00:48:05 <phenny> "Wenn ich ein Vöglein wär und auch": 601
00:48:07 <_bjoern> .gc "Wenn ich ein Vöglein wär und auch noch"
00:48:07 <phenny> "Wenn ich ein Vöglein wär und auch noch": 1
00:48:11 <_bjoern> .g "Wenn ich ein Vöglein wär und auch noch"
00:48:11 <phenny> _bjoern: http://www.br-online.de/imperia/md/content/bayern/collegerad/heimat_sac/42.doc
00:48:20 <_bjoern> dotdoc
00:49:10 <_bjoern> .gc mig29
00:49:11 <phenny> mig29: 1,720,000
00:49:16 <_bjoern> .gc mig28
00:49:17 <phenny> mig28: 22,800
00:49:20 <_bjoern> .gc mig27
00:49:21 <phenny> mig27: 149,000
00:49:23 <_bjoern> .gc mig26
00:49:24 <phenny> mig26: 2,540
00:49:26 <_bjoern> .gc mig30
00:49:27 <phenny> mig30: 3,610
00:49:31 <_bjoern> .gc mig31
00:49:32 <phenny> mig31: 238,000
00:49:32 <Monty> not eating disorder." - hell don't even more effective than even tell him (5), hermoine (4), dreamy (4), himself :P
00:49:36 <_bjoern> nu Monty
00:49:40 <Monty> thats dead human emotions and clean my kb perfectly (some programs don't)
00:49:57 *** _bjoern changed the topic to: "<Monty> thats dead human emotions and clean my kb perfectly (some programs don't)"
00:50:20 <_bjoern> Weiss aber nicht kann sein weiss aber nicht kann sein flög ich zur dir, wenn ich ein vöglein wär.
00:50:38 <_bjoern> .gc "Wer dieses läst ist doof"
00:50:39 <phenny> "Wer dieses läst ist doof": 0
00:50:46 <_bjoern> .gc "Wer dieses lääst ist doof"
00:50:46 <phenny> "Wer dieses lääst ist doof": 0
00:50:49 <_bjoern> .gc "Wer dieses lässt ist doof"
00:50:50 <phenny> "Wer dieses lässt ist doof": 0
00:50:54 <_bjoern> sw33t
00:53:29 <_bjoern> .gcs eisburg iceburg
00:53:30 <phenny> iceburg (365,000), eisburg (2,490)
00:55:47 <kpreid> “Autocannibalism is thermodynamically wrong-headed.” -- http://james-nicoll.livejournal.com/1262974.html
00:56:01 <_bjoern> Yes, but what isn't?
00:56:45 <aspect> burning things. with FIRE!
00:57:15 <therethinker> BURN BURN BURN
00:57:28 * therethinker shoves _bjoern into the pit
01:06:01 <_bjoern> yay!
01:16:18 <_bjoern> .gcs :lof: :hate:
01:16:19 <phenny> :hate: (18,800,000), :lof: (5,440,000)
01:21:58 <therethinker> .gc Fuck! I've been rickrolled by a bastard!!!!
01:21:59 <phenny> Fuck! I've been rickrolled by a bastard!!!!: 1,190
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01:35:12 <therethinker> .ety it
01:35:12 <phenny> "O.E. hit, neut. nom. & acc. of third pers. sing. pronoun, from P.Gmc. demonstrative base *khi- (cf. O.Fris. hit, Du. het, Goth. hita 'it'), which is also the root of he." - http://etymonline.com/?term=it
01:35:31 <therethinker> I can't remember, there was some word I wasn't sure what it could have came from...
01:44:39 <Morbus> hrm.
01:44:48 <Morbus> i think i got banned from xbox 360 because my profile said "Achievement whore".
01:44:58 <Morbus> ban is lifted on sunay.
01:44:59 <Morbus> sunday
01:50:16 <therethinker> HA
01:50:53 <therethinker> You should make it say "Everyone: if this isn't here tomorrow, Microsoft is full of fuckers" or something
01:51:08 <therethinker> or even better, "...Microsoft owes me $1K"
01:51:25 <Morbus> heh, heh
01:51:58 <Morbus> basically, i think i got banned because a) i was trying to get wits and wagers 700 questions achievement, b) i was afk while doing so, c) someone got pissy that i wasn't talking to them, so decided to find some way to ban me.
01:52:03 <Morbus> and reported me for the use of "whore".
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01:52:10 <Morbus> that's the only thing i can think of.
01:52:52 <therethinker> Ha!
01:53:44 <therethinker> “You all sit there, looking smug saying my song isn't ironic, but in fact, it's pretty ironic that I wrote a song called 'Ironic' that wasn't really ironic.” -- http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Irony
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03:14:07 <therethinker> I wonder if sbp will wake up soon
03:17:08 <therethinker> (fi/p) * (fi/p - 1) * (fi/p - 2) * (fi/p - 3) * ... * 3 * 2 * 1
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03:38:40 <therethinker> .u ellipsis
03:38:41 <phenny> U+0EAF LAO ELLIPSIS (ຯ)
03:39:35 * aspect particularly wishes now that this terminal spoke utf-8 correctly
03:39:37 <therethinker> .u …
03:39:38 <phenny> U+2026 HORIZONTAL ELLIPSIS (…)
03:39:38 <Monty> "you"
03:39:47 <therethinker> .u vertical ellipsis
03:39:48 <phenny> U+22EE VERTICAL ELLIPSIS (⋮)
03:41:50 <therethinker> .u diagonal ellipsis
03:41:51 <phenny> U+22F0 UP RIGHT DIAGONAL ELLIPSIS (⋰)
03:42:05 <therethinker> .u left diagonal ellipsis
03:42:06 <phenny> therethinker: Sorry, no results for 'left diagonal ellipsis'.
03:42:17 <therethinker> .u down diagonal ellipsis
03:42:17 <Monty> "you"
03:42:18 <phenny> U+22F1 DOWN RIGHT DIAGONAL ELLIPSIS (⋱)
03:42:48 <therethinker> unicode spam!: ⋰⋱⋰⋱⋰⋱⋰⋱⋰⋱⋰⋱⋰⋱⋰⋱⋰⋱⋰⋱⋰⋱⋰⋱⋰⋱⋰⋱⋰⋱⋰⋱⋰⋱⋰⋱⋰⋱⋰⋱⋰⋱
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03:52:59 <therethinker> .u o͟o
03:52:59 <phenny> U+006F LATIN SMALL LETTER O (o)
03:53:00 <phenny> U+035F (No name found)
03:53:01 <phenny> U+006F LATIN SMALL LETTER O (o)
03:55:23 <therethinker> BYE EVERYONE DON'T MISS ME TOO MUCH
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04:47:36 <xover> .u ς
04:47:36 <phenny> U+03C2 GREEK SMALL LETTER FINAL SIGMA (ς)
04:47:38 <phenny> xover: 16 May 08:00Z <sbp> tell xover http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/may/15/computing.security - Bruce Schneier in the Guradiarn
04:47:50 <xover> .u ç
04:47:50 <phenny> U+00E7 LATIN SMALL LETTER C WITH CEDILLA (ç)
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06:39:41 <sbp> yo
06:39:41 <phenny> sbp: 01:37Z <_bjoern> tell sbp http://swhack.com/logs/2008-05-17#T00-47-13
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07:02:58 <cre8radix> re
07:02:58 <Monty> bring cake
07:03:18 <cre8radix> make coffee, Monty
07:03:19 <Monty> What does that suggest to you ?
07:03:40 <cre8radix> aehm... breakfast, Monty?
07:03:43 <Monty> they...also seem somehow everything froze
07:04:10 <cre8radix> thelsdj: heya bro
07:05:25 <cre8radix> hrhr
07:05:26 <cre8radix> http://www.noob.us/entertainment/baby-wont-stop-crying-rick-roll-them/
07:09:20 <thelsdj> cre8radix: http://www.archive.org/download/torley_wong-wong_songs__1a_/torley_wong-turquoise_blue.ogg
07:09:37 <thelsdj> an mp3 i've had in my collection for years, just came on randomly and had forgotten how good it is
07:10:01 <thelsdj> was something i had downloaded from mp3.com in the early days
07:14:01 <cre8radix> thelsdj: nice
07:16:58 <cre8radix> cool track
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07:36:04 <xover> I wonder if there are any good authoring tools for creating DVD-like interfaces, without having to encode all your JPEGs as MPEG2.
07:37:09 <xover> iDVD, while it makes it real easy to create slideshows and navigation, encodes the slideshow as MPEG (including transitions) which is horribly wastefull of space.
07:37:44 <xover> And none of the slideshow utils I've found can do any kind of DVD-like navigation menu.
07:38:13 <thelsdj> i assume thats a problem with the dvd format itself
07:38:22 <thelsdj> it can't read anything but mpeg2
07:38:55 <xover> Probably. But you have stuff like Kodak PhotoCD, so players do understand plain JPEG to some extent.
07:39:25 <xover> And I don't necessarily want to play it on a DVD player.
07:39:27 <thelsdj> ya, though probably not in the context of a dvd menu
07:39:52 <xover> (for instance, my “DVD player” is the Mac mini I use for a media center)
07:39:52 <thelsdj> what would this interface _do_ then?
07:40:08 <xover> Just simple select among slideshows, a browse hierarchy.
07:40:54 <xover> Looking pretty — ala iDVD menus — wouldn't be a negative either.
07:41:17 <thelsdj> i wonder if mkv or .ogm have menu capabilities
07:41:33 <thelsdj> (they have so many other features, i wouldn't be suprised)
07:41:44 <xover> Hmm. I should look at what QuickTime can do there.
07:41:53 <xover> It supports picture tracks iirc.
07:41:59 <xover> And has some Flash support even.
07:42:56 <xover> Wrapping it in a Keynote.app presentation is an option, but that sounds horribly inefficient.
07:45:10 <thelsdj> so you've looked into the photocd formats and they don't support any type of menu?
07:45:36 <xover> Not really. I've mainly been doing some half-hearted Googling for utilities.
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08:04:36 <cre8radix> "Kittiwat Unarrom has a master’s degree in fine arts and creates bruised and battered heads, feet and other internal organs at a bread shop in Thailand."
08:04:44 <cre8radix> http://www.nerdcore.de/wp/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/body.jpg
08:09:20 <thelsdj> http://io9.com/391020/watch-eliza-dushku-awaken-to-a-new-identity
08:09:29 <thelsdj> heheh, they are using Neo's headphones music for the trailer
08:11:55 <thelsdj> i didn't recognize the other 3 or so songs they used in the trailer
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08:16:55 <thelsdj> OH GOD THIS LOOKS BAD: http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid769343686?bctid=1556072271
08:17:08 <thelsdj> trailer for american remake of life on mars
08:17:44 <thelsdj> colm meany as the gene hunt character could be ok, but the rest looks like crap
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09:20:44 <_bjoern> .g mp3 taser
09:20:44 <phenny> _bjoern: http://digg.com/gadgets/Guy_gets_tasered_by_the_new_mp3_playing_taser
09:21:39 <_bjoern> Ah I knew there's a pix with legs of it http://spe.atdmt.com/b/MSMSNMATCDBA/WithAShirt_160by600_7_001.jpg
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09:22:01 <_bjoern> Monty2!
09:22:04 <Monty2> osfameron: they're making a company or just tarek
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09:37:39 <_bjoern> Ah someone's been reading uncyclopedia again, "Popular Science has a piece on some outrageous ideas for weapons" - /.
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10:28:25 <_bjoern> Monty say something phunny.
10:28:28 <Monty> bwahaha. the agpl does there mention Thomas Nashe
10:29:25 <_bjoern> hmm weather stork http://g.photos.cx/nestz6we4f-4d.jpg
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10:33:35 <_bjoern> .u ̈
10:33:35 <phenny> U+0020 SPACE ( )
10:33:36 <phenny> U+0308 COMBINING DIAERESIS (◌̈)
10:33:45 <_bjoern> .u ̈
10:33:45 <phenny> U+0308 COMBINING DIAERESIS (◌̈)
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11:01:03 * Arnia blinks at the Life on Mars remake
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11:02:19 <nslater> xover: happy 17th may!!! :p
11:03:36 <xover> Thanks.
11:04:19 <xover> I've just sent the SO, her sister, my brother-in-law, and their kid off to watch the festivities (parades and such).
11:04:47 <xover> Now I'm just settling in for a nice rousing game of Civilization IV.
11:07:36 <nslater> heh, ill be making my way into town later to see if I can find any norwegian themed celebrations :p
11:09:19 <pwaring> what's special about today?
11:09:46 <nslater> .wik norwegian consitution day
11:09:48 <phenny> Can't find anything in Wikipedia for "norwegian consitution day".
11:10:12 <pwaring> hah
11:10:17 <pwaring> obviously not that important ;)
11:10:22 <nslater> .wik norwegian constitution day
11:10:24 <phenny> "The Norwegian Constitution Day is the National Day of Norway and is an official national holiday each year." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_Constitution_Day
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11:11:09 <pwaring> "The celebration of this day began spontaneously among students "
11:11:15 <pwaring> always looking for an excuse to avoid work!
11:12:06 <Arnia> shh... *dons a norwegian flag*
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11:47:27 <verbosus> yeah, heh
11:48:30 <_bjoern> .u a ring
11:48:31 <phenny> U+067C ARABIC LETTER TEH WITH RING (ټ)
11:48:31 <Monty> "you"
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12:40:37 <Monty> hey cre8radix
12:41:41 <cre8radix> lo Monty
12:41:42 <Monty> OH HAI
12:41:54 <cre8radix> wo, Monty?
12:41:58 <Monty> (assuming it got wind now on WiFi, no wait in questions a quick and bbq
12:42:31 <cre8radix> phenny: de "Hai"?
12:42:33 <phenny> cre8radix: "shark" (de)
12:42:43 <cre8radix> oh, shark!
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12:56:29 <jsled> )
12:56:34 <jsled> OH SHARK.
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13:25:41 <Arnia> hm... I should stop doing paper trawls. It is very distracting, albeit very fun
13:26:52 <Arnia> Just found a whole load of papers on the relationship between cognition and quantum mechanics
13:27:29 <chandler> That sounds Penrosy.
13:28:30 <Arnia> phenny, tell procto that he might enjoy reading http://philsci-archive.pitt.edu/archive/00000953/00/EmergenceInExactSciences.pdf
13:28:30 <phenny> Arnia: I'll pass that on when procto is around.
13:28:39 <Arnia> chandler: not in that sense
13:28:57 <chandler> Ah. That sounds interesting, then.
13:29:03 <Arnia> chandler: more using the same mathematical machinery of quantum mechanics to model conceptualisation
13:30:16 <Arnia> Awesome paper title: "And the meme raths outgrabe"
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13:32:35 <Arnia> hoi nsh
13:33:48 <nsh> hey mang
13:33:56 <nsh> how's the signal
13:33:58 <nsh> ?
13:34:06 <nsh> god this US keyboard layout is annoying
13:34:32 <Arnia> Well, I'm about to work on fixing the problems people have noted with the BCS paper
13:34:43 <Arnia> Then I'm back to writing my next paper
13:35:33 <nsh> what kinda problems?
13:35:34 <Arnia> This is fun too: http://ajpregu.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/236/5/R241
13:35:42 <nsh> cursey cursey type type
13:35:46 <nsh> i have to sell this laptop
13:35:51 <Arnia> "Complementarity vs. Reduction as Explanation of Biological Complexity"
13:36:28 <Arnia> nsh: oh, pedagogical rather than conceptual problems. I've explained myself poorly in places, and people have had problems understanding what I'm talking about :)
13:36:33 <Arnia> (nothing new there)
13:36:58 <Arnia> chandler: oh, I'm adding a formal description of the Cog meta-model, and a notation for describing Cog-based systems
13:37:04 <nsh> i see
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13:39:22 <Arnia> Should be fun fun fun
13:39:36 <Arnia> Or pain pain pain, depending on whether the writer's block has cleared
13:40:01 <Arnia> I'm still thinking about the right formal description for cogs, for example
13:40:32 <nsh> tell me again, what's a 'cog'?#
13:40:53 <Arnia> I'm thinking about a formalism based on arrows, from functional programming.
13:41:13 <Arnia> nsh: a cog is an active information system
13:41:31 <nsh> why's it called a cog?
13:41:53 <Arnia> nsh: that is, an information system which is modelled as an active entity; receiving sensory input, producing actions and processing information in the middle
13:42:03 <Arnia> COGnitive
13:42:42 * nsh weighs
13:42:49 <Arnia> But also I like the image of the active web being built out of lots of these units connected together to form a larger, collective information system
13:43:11 <Arnia> I actually perceive them as being like cogs when I handle them in my mind
13:43:21 <Arnia> (yay for haptic visualisation)
13:43:42 <nsh> a cog does not evoke the right associations for me
13:44:03 <nsh> it's a passive element, mechanistic, unable to exceed its design parameters
13:44:09 * cre8radix throws a cookie at Arnia
13:44:21 <cre8radix> f ood
13:44:25 <cre8radix> :D
13:44:33 <Arnia> nsh: invokes precisely the right associations for me
13:44:46 <Arnia> nsh: the idea is that each cog is really rather simple
13:45:04 <Arnia> but complex systems arise through the way they're slotted together
13:45:44 <nsh> the complexity in clockwork is entirely engineered-in, however, and allows for no evolutionary adaptation
13:45:49 <Arnia> I mean, a cog is organised into four tiers, and two modalities... the processing doesn't need to be complex
13:45:52 <nsh> but, it's only a term
13:47:34 * nsh wonders what tiers and modalities are in this context
13:48:45 <Arnia> Ok, the tiers are levels of processing. In increasing order of abstraction they are; embodiment, primary (data/feature), secondary (information/classification) and associative
13:49:03 <Arnia> The modalities are the direction of processing. They are sensory and motor
13:49:21 <Arnia> The associative tier glues the sensory and motor modalities together
13:50:44 <Arnia> (the terms 'primary' and 'secondary' come from neurology, where sensory areas of the brain are tiered as primary and secondary visual/auditory/motor/etc. cortex
13:50:48 <Arnia> )
13:51:49 <Arnia> Primary cortex is responsible for feature extraction (in the primary visual cortex lines of various orientations, shadows, textures, etc. are extracted from the visual signal)
13:52:07 <nsh> how do these distinctions facilitate, uh, that thing that you're doing that i never remember but has something to do with multi-agent evidential reasoning and information processing
13:52:08 <nsh> ?
13:52:27 <Arnia> Secondary cortex is responsible for recognising concepts based on the features from the primary cortex processes (object detection, etc.)
13:53:06 <nsh> or, we can has arnia-robat-moon-conquistadores?
13:53:20 <Arnia> nsh: the idea is to model what embodiment amounts to... how information is processed to cause decisions to be made
13:53:54 * nsh isn't sure how to understand embodiment outside of a physical context
13:53:57 <Arnia> nsh: in this way I can develop interface descriptions to allow people to snap together building blocks and build information processing systems out of the parts
13:54:27 <Arnia> Whilst guaranteeing the embodiment property
13:55:18 <Arnia> nsh: Embodiment is the idea that meaning is situated. Information only is meaningful if it is the result of action in some world, and accquired through sense in that world
13:55:44 <nsh> so how will cogs perform actions and in what world will they perform them in?
13:56:11 <Arnia> nsh: so, what the Cog meta-model does is give an abstract description of the general processes of information processing from the perspective of the philosophy of embodiment
13:56:27 * nsh frowns
13:56:38 <nsh> i'm not a venture capitalist, Arnia
13:56:44 <Arnia> nsh: it is a meta-model... exactly how they're embodied is a detail of the cogs
13:57:05 <Arnia> Not of the meta-model, which is meant to capture the essence of what an embodied information system IS
13:57:20 <Arnia> nsh: never said you were, and that wasn't a venture capitalist splurge
13:57:48 <nsh> all i meant was that you were telling me what your idea does rather than showing me how it would do it :-)
13:59:01 <Arnia> It is a meta-model... there is no *how* at that level of description. It is an abstract tool, to make it easier to design cognitive (embodied) information systems
13:59:12 <nsh> ah ok
13:59:28 * nsh respectfully withdraws his interest
14:01:05 <Arnia> it still says a lot though... for a start, it highlights the importance of the tiers of processing.
14:01:52 <Arnia> It also suggests questions one should ask during design of a cognitive information system
14:04:32 <nsh> i'd ask fool questions like 'what is it supposed to do?' and 'how might it do that?'
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14:05:05 <nsh> and foolishly consign the rest to the 'procrastinatory fucking about
14:05:10 <nsh> ' pile
14:05:15 <nsh> of which i am a veritable expert
14:06:14 <Arnia> I'd say the answers to those questions have already been given... it is a meta-model, a theory for organising other theories. Its value is in allowing me to express the common properties of such systems in terms of a gross organisational structure
14:06:29 <nsh> i'd be inclined to agree. but i really don
14:06:34 <nsh> 't have any idea what that means
14:06:48 <nsh> (and hate this keyboard)
14:07:12 <Arnia> From an engineering perspective, that allows me to not worry about lots of the properties of the system because they follow just from making the system conform to the meta-model. Less to think about, can focus on the details
14:08:04 * nsh smiles
14:08:13 <Arnia> I'm sure you can see the utility in at least that
14:08:55 <nsh> only from the retrospective vantage point of the meta-leading to something cool
14:09:03 <nsh> *meta-model leading
14:10:08 <nsh> but in my experience, the best way to learn what the requirements are is by hacking away at trying to do something and seeing what the obstacles are
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14:11:06 <nsh> and what the (tries to think of the opposite of obstacle...) things-that-give-something-an-advantage are
14:11:20 <Arnia> Doing that lacks communicable insight, tends to go down dead ends and I've found is generally an excuse for lack of rigour of approach
14:11:41 <Arnia> What this meta-model represents is the communication of my insight
14:11:59 <Arnia> And non-communicable thought is useless for practical purposes
14:12:39 <nsh> mmmm
14:12:42 <nsh> for once
14:12:47 <nsh> i feel i can make a point using a comic
14:12:49 <nsh> bear with me
14:13:24 <nsh> http://xkcd.com/397/
14:15:12 <Arnia> What I say isn't incompatible with that in the least.
14:15:37 <nsh> the rigour of rational definitional deduction must march in tandem with the empiricism of experimental interaction with the problem itself
14:15:40 <Arnia> However communication is what makes it worthwhile
14:15:55 <Arnia> (note, communication includes communication with the physical world)
14:16:02 <Arnia> (i.e. action)
14:16:40 <Arnia> nsh: you could have said that so much more cleanly as 'theory and experiment must be applied together'
14:19:36 <nsh> my point is that unless the requirements of your metamodel are informed by empirical results then the risk is that its constraints are artificial
14:21:05 <nsh> and by empirical results i mean stuff like "tried this and realised it won't work because this always happened", or "wow, didn't realise how effective this would be until i saw that it blarghs some floonth"
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14:23:36 <nsh> but, i think i'm missing the point
14:24:10 <nsh> that your objective at this point is concerned with convincing, rather than constructive
14:24:21 <nsh> *constructing
14:24:49 <nsh> could have said 'at this juncture', what would sounded nicer
14:26:09 * nsh wonders how 'would have' was transmuted into 'what would', gives up on communicating, leaves it to arnia :-)
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14:35:26 <Arnia> At the moment, this meta-model is informed by my experiences. I will be testing the model, but I need a statement of what the model is. Papers are used as much for shaping one's own thoughts, as for stating 'final' results.
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14:52:03 <chandler> Arnia: sorry, I stepped out and I have to step out again in a minute, but if you can build a formal model for plausable next direction for the Web using something like arrows (a good choice in my opinion), I think you'll have achieved something very worthwhile
14:53:01 <chandler> because you'll be able to point at something and say "this is a Cog, because it satisfies the definition thereof" instead of having a thousand different random things glomming on to your terminology because somebody thought it sounded cool and it'd get them funding
14:53:14 <chandler> (ala semantic web)
14:53:59 * nsh considers taking up recreational glomming
14:54:44 <chandler> .ety glom
14:54:44 <phenny> "1907, from glahm 'grab, snatch, steal,' Amer.Eng. underworld slang, from Scot. glaum (1715), from Gael. glam 'to handle awkwardly, grab voraciously, devour.' Sense of 'look at, watch' (1945) is apparently derived from the same word." - http://etymonline.com/?term=glom
15:03:17 <Arnia> chandler: yeah, well I'm applying a lot of category theory throughout my work. This would fit in well
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16:54:40 <therethinker> .swhack revecter
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16:55:06 <phenny> therethinker: http://swhack.com/logs/2008-05-13#T22-42-41
16:56:17 <mahound> plum: cephalopods
16:56:22 <plum> is there like a plum concept in json? when i display the index page i get the none parsed chunk. lmao
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17:00:40 <deltab> no, there is no plum concept in json
17:00:45 <plum> so is the concept of a json object, will be even easier after i make the wire protocol basically json encoded. lol
17:03:21 <therethinker> someone should port plum to javascript...
17:03:24 <plum> posts to it. why stop port the whole of the emacs goodies over.
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18:16:29 <cre8radix> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNzZzsvOClc
18:16:33 <cre8radix> .title
18:16:34 <phenny> cre8radix: YouTube - Dennis Leary - I'm an Asshole (Uncensored)
18:16:40 <cre8radix> great!
18:23:14 * procto is at barcamp boston
18:23:14 <phenny> procto: 14:18Z <Arnia> tell procto that he might enjoy reading http://philsci-archive.pitt.edu/archive/00000953/00/EmergenceInExactSciences.pdf
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18:52:58 <Arnia> http://www.visit4info.com/advert/Britvic-Drench-Spring-Water-Brains-Performing-Britvic-Soft-Drinks-range/59448
18:53:04 <Arnia> .title
18:53:08 <phenny> Arnia: Video Clip - Britvic Soft Drinks range - Britvic, Drench Spring Water - Brains Performing Advert
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19:06:47 <procto> Arnia: that paper does look quite interesting. I've filed it for later perusal.
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20:24:58 <deltab> wow, actual Teletext 2 subtitles (on ITV1's current broadcast of 2 Fast 2 Furious)
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22:38:29 <_bjoern> nu
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23:05:28 <Monty> hi Arnia
23:06:46 <_bjoern> hi Monty
23:06:49 <Monty> dave: but what the three classes of ridiculous enthusiasm
23:06:59 <_bjoern> .wik FCKW
23:07:01 <phenny> "COELAN is a German company which is a leader in the industrial coating field and was founded in 1954." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coelan
23:07:19 <_bjoern> .wik Fluorchlorkohlenwasserstoff
23:07:20 <phenny> Can't find anything in Wikipedia for "Fluorchlorkohlenwasserstoff".
23:07:26 <_bjoern> .g Fluorchlorkohlenwasserstoff
23:07:26 <phenny> _bjoern: http://dictionary.reverso.net/german-english/Fluorchlorkohlenwasserstoff
23:07:43 <Arnia> nslater: you may enjoy, or may already have seen: http://ejohn.org/blog/processingjs/
23:08:39 <_bjoern> "I've ported the Processing visualization language to JavaScript, using the Canvas element."
23:09:10 <Arnia> Probably won't be useful until the new JavaScriptCore is done
23:09:43 <_bjoern> s/until the new JavaScriptCore is done//
23:10:42 <Arnia> _bjoern: processing is useful for visualisation work... being able to use it without using Java is useful
23:10:57 <Arnia> (or rather, being able to use something similar without Java)
23:11:21 <_bjoern> It's very evil to make one decide between js and java.
23:11:48 <Arnia> I like Javascript... it is a nice language marred by substandard implementations
23:12:03 <Arnia> That situation is (slowly) improving however
23:12:27 <Arnia> It is basically a more familiar syntax on top of Scheme
23:12:40 <Arnia> (more familiar to most coders at any rate)
23:13:18 * _bjoern ponders watching porn in place of Arnia's remarks.
23:13:37 * Arnia shrugs
23:13:37 <ja> with hashtables instead of lists
23:13:43 <ja> so just use lua, since its 10x as fast as js..
23:13:55 <ja> not nearly as much useless crap i the lang (esp es4/js2)
23:14:08 <Arnia> ja: that's an implementation detail (the slowness) and I don't like es4
23:14:23 <Arnia> (and wasn't referring to it, since I consider it a different language)
23:14:27 <ja> k
23:14:41 <Arnia> ja: The new JavaScriptCore is a bytecode engine, rather than an AST interpreter
23:15:30 <ja> and Tamarin
23:15:38 <ja> probably Rhino as well
23:15:41 <Arnia> anyway, I'm not a fan of lua. Something about its syntax has always felt clunky to me
23:16:16 <Arnia> Same with Ruby actually... makes me puzzle why so many people like it, but each to their own
23:16:24 <ja> nice syntax imo
23:16:29 <ja> perl-influenced :D
23:16:46 <Arnia> It just always seemed like a weird blend of perl and smalltalk, and I don't like Perl and think smalltalk is too elegant to fuck with
23:16:52 <ja> the mandatory OO (instead of simulating with hash tables, closures, etc) annoys the shit out of me tho
23:16:52 <Monty> potty mouth!
23:17:24 <Arnia> There are very few good OO languages about...
23:17:33 <Arnia> Most are horrendously ugly
23:17:57 <Arnia> Sometimes I can put up with that ugliness (Python), other times I just develop an abiding dislike of the language
23:18:51 <Arnia> The only OO languages I think get it really are Smalltalk, Objective-C, F-Script and maybe Logtalk (although the last I'm not sure about... not a bad mix of LP and OOP though)
23:19:34 <Arnia> Some of the languages built on the CLI aren't bad I suppose... although my favourite CLI language is Nemerle
23:19:56 <Arnia> (which is an ML-family FP language combined with OOP)
23:20:33 <Arnia> Really though, that's for class-based OO. Prototype OO is actually a style I prefer.
23:21:09 <ja> the 'distance' from OS bugs me in JS
23:21:14 <ja> since it grew up around these weak sandboxed env
23:21:18 * ja makes tons of syscalls, ruby is fine
23:21:47 * ja rather run code i provide, than stuff ppl on the web provide..
23:21:55 <ja> so no reason to worry about security other than my own stupidity
23:22:30 <Arnia> I find that a rather naïve attitude
23:22:59 <ja> theres no web app thats compelling enough for me to enable JS
23:23:15 <ja> and if i rewrote stuff in JS to get off ruby, itd be monumentally slower due ot the # of syscalls having to percolate thru some weirdo security wraper stuff
23:23:33 <Arnia> Unless you're a super man and can see all possible consequences of your code, you're still going to be awash with security risks
23:23:52 <Arnia> ja: I'd say that's more a defect with modern operating systems
23:24:07 <Arnia> (there is no decent operating system around IMO)
23:24:34 <Arnia> Maybe if a capability OS gets decent penetration (and/or finished) then I'll revise that opinion
23:26:49 <Arnia> I do get annoyed when people confuse implementation problems with language design problems though. It is like, there is no such thing as a compiled or an interpreted language.
23:32:58 <Arnia> it continues to puzzle me, why people get so het up about languages. People blame programming languages for things which are nothing to do with the language chosen, as if the implementer had no control and the language wrote the software.
23:35:45 <kpreid> well, language design choices do affect the feasibility of implementation properties
23:36:29 <Arnia> I know... it is the complaints that have no basis though, which attribute to the language properties it doesn't have
23:42:22 <deltab> how do you feel about Io?
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