00:00:05 * sbp was an OASIS member
00:00:09 <sbp> wonder if I still am. doubt it
00:00:23 <nslater> "webinar"
00:00:55 <nslater> 81 word eh? thats an odd figure
00:01:11 <sbp> webinar is like the antithesis of ærocock
00:01:15 <sbp> webinar is the negicool
00:01:22 <nslater> webinar is antilulz
00:01:36 <sbp> the only thing that webinar is not anti is anti
00:01:51 <sbp> d8uv: did you see the ærocock?
00:02:03 <d8uv> Nope
00:02:08 <sbp> OH MAN
00:02:09 <sbp> hang on then
00:02:46 <d8uv> XRI sounds like a retarded, overengineered URL. Am I right?
00:02:48 <sbp> d8uv: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/article3720115.ece
00:02:51 <sbp> and yes
00:03:16 <d8uv> Basically everything from OASIS and W3 are overenginnered piles.
00:03:35 <sbp> hmm. maybe not RELAX NG
00:03:46 <nslater> ARGH! XRI'S ARE SO MUCH FAIL
00:04:04 * nslater sighs, relaxes
00:04:12 <nslater> I need some nsh juice
00:04:50 <d8uv> Ok that's awesome
00:04:54 <d8uv> I love Russia
00:05:16 <sbp> the best part, oddly, is when the funky security henchman bats it out of the air
00:05:20 <nsh_> please please please please
00:05:22 <d8uv> Yeah
00:05:31 <nsh_> please tell me that XRI doesn't stand for "extensible resource indicator"
00:05:32 <d8uv> Also... Relax NG doesn't count
00:05:33 <nsh_> please.
00:05:34 <sbp> I've never seen a grown man bat a giant æropenis out of the air before
00:05:44 <nslater> nsh_: ?
00:05:52 <nslater> relax ng is made of boobs and win
00:05:53 <sbp> nsh_: best not to think about it too hard
00:05:55 <sbp> actually, at all
00:05:59 <nsh_> identifier, even
00:06:04 <nsh_> and :-/
00:06:13 <sbp> d8uv: how doesn't RELAX NG count? it's an OASIS spec, and it's made of boobs and win as nslater notes
00:06:25 <sbp> I guess it's the exception which proves the rule
00:06:37 <sbp> I can't think of any other W3C or OASIS spec that isn't an overengineered pile
00:06:41 <sbp> even the ones I worked on
00:07:14 <nsh_> engineered piles would be pretty cool
00:07:15 <sbp> actually, I think darobin was pleased with Binary XML Requirements
00:07:22 * nslater considers his plans for the Aesthetic Software Foundation again
00:07:25 <sbp> but I dunno much about that. his description sounded pretty good
00:07:41 <nsh_> when i was in high school they told us that if you say on cold concrete for too long you could engineer yourself piles
00:07:54 <nsh_> an exhaustive empirical verification was never undertaken
00:08:02 <nsh_> *sat
00:08:30 <sbp> I just distrust everything I was taught in secondary school
00:08:42 <sbp> veracity level: pretty damn low
00:08:59 <sbp> not that we learned much anyway
00:09:04 <sbp> it was a complete waste of time
00:09:09 <darobin> I liked the process, but it also meant taking a year just to figure out what should be done
00:09:10 <phenny> darobin: 10:28Z <_bjoern> tell darobin I'm sorry to hear that!
00:09:15 <nslater> why? are you sugesting that electrons dont exist as circular lines around a nucleus?
00:09:16 <darobin> which, admittedly, can sometimes be smart
00:09:26 <darobin> phenny: tell _bjoern not as much as I am!
00:09:26 <phenny> darobin: I'll pass that on when _bjoern is around.
00:09:29 <sbp> I remember one day I was particularly pissed off, and so I figured I'd monitor the day—just a regular day—to see how much we really learned
00:09:43 <sbp> it turned out that I was taught one obscure thing about algebra
00:09:47 <sbp> everything else was piss and waffle
00:09:50 <nsh_> heh
00:09:58 <darobin> waffles are good
00:10:07 <nslater> urine waffles are not good
00:10:10 <sbp> yeah, but I meant the bad kind
00:10:16 <sbp> waffles from hades
00:10:26 <nslater> evilwaffle
00:10:31 <nslater> plum, waffles?
00:10:33 <plum> imported from a pdf, doomed from the from my virtual population.
00:10:37 <darobin> that makes them sound better actually
00:10:38 *** sbp changed the topic to: "Evil Urine Waffles from Hades"
00:10:48 <darobin> apart from the Urine bit
00:10:57 <sbp> depends whose urine
00:11:02 <nslater> O_O
00:11:14 <sbp> nslater: hang on a mo'
00:11:28 <nslater> I don't want any urine, thanks all the same!
00:11:31 <sbp> nslater: http://m.assetbar.com/achewood/uua5htSs2
00:11:33 <darobin> I was going to say, don't icelanders eat shark fins which are urine recipients?
00:11:58 <sbp> also, kidney basically tastes the same as urine smells
00:12:09 <sbp> so it maketh one to wonder
00:12:29 <nslater> LOL
00:12:52 <darobin> kidney is only good in steak and kidney pie
00:12:53 *** lordi (n=hannes@dslb-088-064-139-172.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #swhack
00:13:04 <darobin> I need to learn how to make pie
00:13:09 <sbp> nslater: see the mouseover text too, if you didn't already
00:13:43 <nslater> heh
00:13:54 <nslater> as for the 81 words thing, I cant think of anything meaningful I would want to say
00:14:03 <sbp> yeah, I had the same problem
00:14:08 <sbp> whupped its arse eventually though
00:14:14 <sbp> with help from teh Arnia
00:14:16 <nslater> it's too small a number
00:14:25 <d8uv> 81 is too many words
00:14:27 <sbp> too big for Arnia and chandler
00:14:29 <sbp> and d8uv
00:14:39 <sbp> and _bjoern, except he retracted his and is still pending
00:14:48 <nslater> well, if I could I would want to write a book or some length
00:14:52 <sbp> and nsh who DOESN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT
00:15:04 <nslater> but 81 words is not enough to carry meaning, as best as I can imagine
00:15:09 <sbp> nsh_: if you could only leave 81 words to posterity, what would they be? / like, a scrap of paper in the desert to be found in a few hundred years / attribution and whatnot is considered part of the surviving context
00:15:43 <nslater> I wonder if you could do ascii art goatse in 81 words
00:16:08 <sbp> easy: /--{ }--\
00:16:40 <nslater> ☛( )☚
00:17:01 <sbp> nslater: http://goatseemot.ytmnd.com/
00:17:07 <sbp> hehe, unicode-joys
00:17:18 <sbp> (http://goatseemot.ytmnd.com/ is SFW, just about)
00:17:26 <nslater> heh
00:17:48 *** mahound (n=mahound@unaffiliated/mahound) has joined #swhack
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00:22:30 <sbp> .title http://www.engadget.com/2008/05/22/iphone-line-forms-at-apples-flagship-for-absolutely-no-reason/
00:22:31 <phenny> sbp: iPhone line forms at Apple's flagship for absolutely no reason - Engadget
00:23:23 <d8uv> sbp: My 81 words:
00:23:24 <d8uv> This is a project meant to distill all of one's knowledge into one eighty-one summary: For the benefit of future--apparently ADD-addled--generations. However, Eighty-One is a stupid figure. It is simultaneously too long to give a single thought the time and attention it deserves, yet is too short to give two thoughts their due. There's also a rumor that this will go on Wikipedia. Dear editors: This is not encyclopedic materia
00:34:18 <d8uv> I like these words
00:35:35 <_bjoern> .gcs "encyclopedic materia" "yellow materia" "summon materia" "black materia"
00:35:36 <phenny> _bjoern: 11:42Z <darobin> tell _bjoern not as much as I am!
00:35:38 <phenny> "black materia" (28,000), "summon materia" (17,400), "yellow materia" (1,710), "encyclopedic materia" (2)
00:36:11 <_bjoern> phenny, tell darobin Well you've got a simple solution, just don't listen to yourself!
00:36:11 <phenny> _bjoern: I'll pass that on when darobin is around.
00:36:53 <darobin> phenny: tell _bjoern in this case I don't actually, it's a job to pay for the wedding rings
00:36:54 <phenny> darobin: I'll pass that on when _bjoern is around.
00:36:55 <phenny> darobin: 12:09Z <_bjoern> tell darobin Well you've got a simple solution, just don't listen to yourself!
00:37:18 <_bjoern> Yes I thought something like that.
00:37:18 <phenny> _bjoern: 12:10Z <darobin> tell _bjoern in this case I don't actually, it's a job to pay for the wedding rings
00:38:44 <sbp> d8uv: cut at "This is not encyclopedic materi"
00:39:08 <_bjoern> I got an additional 'a' at the end"
00:39:18 <sbp> most straunge
00:39:41 <_bjoern> Look, I didn't say "nu" just now.
00:40:43 <sbp> qu
00:40:59 <_bjoern> yip yip yip
00:41:04 <sbp> nok nok nok
00:41:07 <sbp> booook
00:41:41 <sbp> this joke maketh me unto gigglances
00:41:50 <sbp> for it hath a wit sublime in't
00:42:05 *** Arnia has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:43:41 <sbp> d8uv: also the idea is that shit from the past often only survives in weird forms, scribbled onto the back of sugar packets, etched into a windowframe, a loose leaf of paper in some rafters
00:43:42 <Monty> potty mouth!
00:44:01 <sbp> d8uv: normally people don't get to choose the amount. at least you know what the word limit on this is
00:44:43 *** danieljohnlewis (n=danieljo@82-46-88-152.cable.ubr10.azte.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #swhack
00:44:48 <sbp> making teh informations survive is tricky
00:44:56 * nsh_ is actually part of a millenia-old breeding cult that has been leaving its legacy in the frequency of certain nonlethal conditions over particular geographical locations
00:45:10 <sbp> probably trickier *now* that we have digital information than it used to be
00:45:13 <nsh_> we scoff at words
00:45:28 <sbp> you're a mormon?
00:45:35 <nsh_> shhh!
00:45:36 <_bjoern> Like big and strange pyramidical buildings in the desert.
00:45:37 <sbp> hehe
00:46:10 *** KiYanWang (n=KiYanWan@62.172.77.66) has joined #swhack
00:46:17 <sbp> a star ypointing pyramid indeed
00:46:31 <nsh_> Y POINTING? Y !
00:46:42 <nsh_> (is logical operator, silly)
00:47:27 <_bjoern> Y indicates the military on german license plates.
00:49:22 <sbp> [[[
00:49:23 <sbp> WHat needs my Shakespear for his honour'd Bones,
00:49:23 <sbp> The labour of an age in piled Stones,
00:49:23 <sbp> Or that his hallow'd reliques should be hid
00:49:24 <sbp> Under a Star-ypointing Pyramid?
00:49:24 <sbp> Dear son of memory, great heir of Fame, [ 5 ]
00:49:25 <sbp> What need'st thou such weak witnes of thy name?
00:49:27 <sbp> Thou in our wonder and astonishment
00:49:31 <sbp> Hast built thy self a live-long Monument.
00:49:33 <sbp> ]]] - http://www.dartmouth.edu/~milton/reading_room/on_shakespeare/index.shtml
01:04:20 <Monty> nslater: You asked me to remind you to be 1337 baby
01:04:48 <nslater> 1337
01:05:13 <nslater> remind me in 24 hours to be 1337
01:05:13 <Monty> nslater: Okay, I'll remind you about that on Sat May 24 13:38:18 BST 2008
01:05:17 <nslater> fail
01:05:20 * nslater sulks
01:05:35 <nslater> remind me in 24 hours that i fail
01:05:35 <Monty> nslater: Okay, I'll remind you about that on Sat May 24 13:38:40 BST 2008
01:06:12 <sbp> .gc "sign-in seal"
01:06:13 <phenny> "sign-in seal": 27,900
01:06:16 <sbp> .g "sign-in seal"
01:06:17 <phenny> sbp: http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/edit/privacy/edit-39.html
01:06:42 <nslater> double hyphens must die
01:07:24 <sbp> even in command flags?
01:07:38 <nslater> how can people have enough understanding to realise the need for an em dash without having the understanding not to use two hyphens
01:07:57 <sbp> hang on, I know the answer to that
01:07:59 <sbp> gotta look it up though
01:08:36 <sbp> Ginsparg's Law
01:08:49 <sbp> cf. http://swhack.com/logs/2008-05-13#T14-49-51
01:10:35 <sbp> nsh formulated it as “any seemingly notable observation can be reformulated as a completely obvious result”, but I think of it more as a strong version of Sturgeon's Law, with a bit of advice tacked on the end. “things are stupid, this is hardly a revelation”
01:10:38 * nslater grins
01:10:58 <nslater> yes, I was strugling to parse the exact meaning, but I got it in the end
01:11:06 <sbp> I guess we need another law explaining the source of stupidity though
01:11:21 <sbp> so many possible scapegoats... which is the most comic I wonder...
01:11:29 <nslater> goats
01:11:54 <nslater> probably
01:11:54 <sbp> goats are too far away from people most of the time to be an obvious cause of their stupidity
01:12:11 <sbp> .wik Stupidity
01:12:12 <phenny> "Stupidity is the property a person, action or belief instantiates by virtue of having or being indicative of low intelligence or poor learning abilities." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stupidity
01:12:15 <nslater> maybe the distance from goats is the cause of stupidity
01:12:23 <nslater> perhaps goats are the antistupid elixir
01:12:25 <d8uv> My theory on Em Dashes: My keyboard doesn't have an em-dash button. But it has a hyphen button.
01:12:52 <d8uv> So--with all due respect--go die in a fire.
01:13:02 <_bjoern> k
01:13:07 <nslater> :(
01:14:09 <sbp> so Noah's Law is: the further away from a goat, the stupider you are?
01:14:14 * nslater bets that sbp's keyboard has an em dash button, an en dash button, a soft hyphen, a non-breaking hyphen and a hyphenation point
01:14:25 <sbp> this means that goatfuckers are the cleveristest peoples in the world
01:14:34 <nslater> sbp's collorary
01:14:40 <sbp> it does, but only not a technicality
01:14:45 <sbp> er, but only on a technicality
01:14:50 <sbp> collorary: chuckle
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01:15:16 * nslater smiles
01:16:04 <d8uv> Hahaha
01:16:06 <nslater> plum, goats?
01:16:11 <plum> all channels containing dave2 discuss goat sex? i can take his head and stick it on man fucking a plum for all i care.
01:16:20 <nslater> lol
01:16:20 <sbp> sweet
01:16:43 <d8uv> Oooh I haven't met the plum bot
01:16:46 <nslater> loggy: pointer
01:16:46 <loggy> http://swhack.com/logs/2008-05-25#T01-16-46
01:16:47 <plum> hehe, haven't been to wylug for years, more wolfe i haven't intentionally edited anything out.
01:16:50 <sbp> it's pretty good, as you can see
01:16:55 <sbp> plum: motherfucker
01:16:57 <d8uv> Better than the twe bot
01:16:58 <plum> ping ping you motherfucker, the motherfuckers are doing transparent proxying!
01:17:12 <sbp> plum: assfuck
01:17:14 <plum> theres also the chump bot, on the floor.
01:17:16 <d8uv> And only slightly better than the Monty bot
01:17:20 <Monty> Just making teh informations survive and just come round
01:17:32 <sbp> plum: Monty and elfrape = what?
01:17:34 <Monty> Why is to *: cocks (20), dicks (5)
01:17:38 <plum> cognitive science and category theory are only just coming together, we should make the lucene integration bypass that and just use jsonlib and apache httpclient directly.
01:17:38 <sbp> hehe
01:17:51 <nslater> heh
01:17:52 <sbp> they've vying for our patronage
01:17:57 <d8uv> plum, say some nerdy shit that noone can care about
01:18:00 <plum> doesn't encodeoptions take care of that? that shit is so funny!
01:18:05 <d8uv> yep
01:18:17 <nslater> plum, do you like swhack?
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01:18:20 <plum> haha, set up a plum museum, you're like the swhack clock.
01:18:54 *** Jonashdsf (n=jonas@wop.ulyssis.student.kuleuven.be) has joined #swhack
01:20:09 * nslater feeds some plums to Monty
01:20:10 <Monty> stick it a given by sending chemical messages through numbers. Three: If you while afk again.
01:20:16 <plum> do you surf some audio? really it was getting good enough to try feeding the entire construct will begin acting like a plum between my friend stu and darobin on swhack. haha
01:21:41 <sbp> HELLO MONTYCAPS
01:21:44 <Monty> I firmly believe that skidmarks is feisty!
01:21:47 <nslater> heh
01:21:56 <sbp> firmly not being the operative word
01:22:07 <nslater> apt-get install underpants
01:23:06 <sbp> you're an underpant
01:23:21 <nslater> E_CONFUSING_SINGULAR
01:23:41 <d8uv> One of these days pl*m and M*nty will become sentient and just mention eachother over and over recursively
01:23:58 <nslater> well pl*m and mekano-pip did that one night
01:24:10 <d8uv> Hahaha no way
01:24:20 <nslater> I think, or it may have been twe, cant remember now
01:24:54 <d8uv> Eventually the markov chains end up just like
01:25:00 <sbp> an this Yahoo thing is funny. hang on
01:25:20 <d8uv> plum: Monty Monty Monty ruby Monty Monty Monty Monty asscrack Monty
01:25:21 <Monty> Arniarniarnia!
01:25:22 <plum> monty is like discordian eliza, who the hell is monty.
01:25:23 <Monty> In what way ?
01:25:24 <nslater> the funnehst thing was when pl*m asked Mont*y to remind her to flame someone in one minute, which he did and then she did
01:25:35 <d8uv> hahahahaha
01:25:40 <nslater> plum, flame d8uv
01:25:45 <plum> d8uv, stop or make me a raspberry fool, why do they shut everything down 1800z? someone should just kick you already.
01:25:57 <nslater> o_O
01:26:04 <nslater> plum, you fail at flaming
01:26:09 <plum> you asked me to remind you to tell plum to flame no thoughts of tdobson in short pants please. i failed at least two modules.
01:26:19 <nslater> heh
01:26:29 <d8uv> plum, .g something
01:26:34 <plum> tell arnia derivative g of f is g, using -g seems to constantly cause a address already in use on the router.
01:26:50 <d8uv> almost
01:26:52 <nslater> plum, tell Arnia that your self!
01:26:55 <plum> i'm still frowning at arnia, i think phenny is a plum self-centred. haha
01:26:56 <sbp> http://g.photos.cx/yahoo-ff.png
01:27:23 <nslater> hehe
01:27:24 <sbp> I love the expressions on the other computer
01:27:26 <sbp> ...s
01:27:30 <nslater> yeah
01:27:37 <d8uv> That only makes me want to make out with my computer more
01:27:42 <kpreid> .swhack plum>.*Monty: remind
01:27:45 <Monty> 20:13 <sbp> Arnia: ping command was suggesting incest.
01:27:47 <plum> i make a plum more like omg my pizza should have been taken out long ago, computers can make sound now?
01:28:01 <_bjoern> scary pix
01:28:05 <phenny> kpreid: Sorry, no results found.
01:28:14 <sbp> phenny: tell Arnia ping command was suggesting incest.
01:28:14 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when Arnia is around.
01:28:19 <nslater> actually, even more funneh was when someone in couchdb thought that plum was a real person and had a conversation about design patterns with her
01:28:21 <plum> things aen't designed for tha and the real solution.
01:28:29 <nslater> recorded here: http://bytesexual.org/plum/
01:28:33 <plum> does it record waypoints too? how exactly is the continued copyright on elvis recordings helping to create more elvis records?
01:28:51 <d8uv> HAhahahaha
01:29:26 <d8uv> The best thing about that are that people who care about design patterns have about as much intelligence as plum
01:29:32 <nslater> heh
01:29:34 <plum> that probably is as simple as possible, but i need to think some more about how best to explain it to people who say i could care less about people who aren't in love with semantics to the same degree as myself.
01:29:40 <sbp> nooOOoo, some design patterns are cool
01:29:58 <sbp> one of the few decent things in all common computer science
01:30:36 <d8uv> Name one
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01:30:45 <nslater> I tend to agree with Arnia that in many cases they are hacks around missing environmental factors
01:31:12 <nslater> .swhack indicator of environmental quality
01:31:31 <sbp> d8uv: Availability Propagation
01:31:33 <phenny> nslater: http://swhack.com/logs/2008-04-21#T17-43-11
01:31:40 <plum> quality is clearly bogus, but you object to it in the context of a plum language design. hehe
01:31:51 <nslater> hmm
01:32:23 <sbp> d8uv: which is the idea that since things that you need most often tend to get stored in multiple places to increase their availability, the most useful things automatically propagate themselves (though it's not a one to one binding of usefulness to immediate usefulness)
01:32:47 <nslater> sbp: is that a pattern, or perhaps just an observation?
01:33:06 *** kpreid has quit ()
01:33:18 <sbp> both?
01:33:39 <sbp> gotta be usable somewhere
01:33:48 <d8uv> Yeah. It's not a design pattern, as it's neither a design, nor a pattern.
01:34:02 <sbp> well design patterns aren't designs
01:34:06 <sbp> they're things you use in designs
01:34:09 * nslater choxelles
01:34:18 <sbp> and of course it's a pattern. it has instances, things conform to it, it's an abstraction
01:34:29 *** swhask has quit (Remote closed the connection)
01:34:36 *** eel has quit (Remote closed the connection)
01:34:39 <Morbus> great: http://www.passiveaggressivenotes.com/2008/05/22/the-parking-class/
01:34:52 <sbp> admittedly it's a crap example pattern. not very prototypical
01:34:55 <sbp> see c2.com for more
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01:35:40 <procto> morning
01:36:25 *** nsh_ has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.82.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.14/2008040413]")
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01:37:18 <sbp> [[[
01:37:19 <sbp> “We have many children, elderly, handicapped, and construction workers on our block. . . ”
01:37:19 <sbp> I’m not sure which takes me more aback. The fact that children are parking on this street, or that someone is considerate of construction workers.
01:37:19 <sbp> ]]]
01:37:22 <sbp> yo procto
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01:39:22 <sbp> nslater: Arnia was probably talking about the more constrained idea of design patterns
01:39:31 <nslater> sure
01:39:32 <sbp> i.e. design patterns that are simply code recipes
01:39:38 <nslater> GOF etc
01:39:41 <nslater> agreed
01:39:51 <sbp> GOF: aye
01:39:59 <sbp> the sort of thing that the plover dude hates
01:40:15 <sbp> M.-J. Dominus
01:42:27 *** laht (n=boop@84.123.122.140.dyn.user.ono.com) has joined #swhack
01:43:53 <sbp> lol hello laht
01:44:50 <nslater> .swhack dave2
01:44:52 <phenny> nslater: http://swhack.com/logs/2008-05-22#T02-08-43
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01:47:48 <nslater> ☃
01:48:35 <nslater> I love how the UC considers a fucking snowman in a hat more worthy of encoding than the copyleft sign
01:48:50 <sbp> the snowman is from a legacy encoding
01:49:02 <sbp> a legacy charset, I mean
01:49:07 <nslater> oh, dont i look like the fool :(
01:49:41 <sbp> they decided to support backwards compatibility with all currently existing at least moderately used character repertoires
01:50:20 <nslater> yes yes, I was blinded by a fit of unicode rage
01:50:24 <sbp> hehe
01:50:39 <sbp> you could keep nagging them, as clsn advises
01:51:03 <procto> sbp: I'm glad I found a residential street I can leave my car on without getting these notes
01:51:15 <sbp> procto: handy that
01:51:19 <nslater> yes, but there are many things which irritate me similarly or more and if I nagged everyone who irritates me or gets some thing wrong on thar internets it would probably take up my entire waking life
01:51:19 <procto> plenty of children parking there, too :>
01:51:28 <nslater> so I figure, have a go if im bored, once, then give up
01:51:49 <sbp> yeah, depends how important you rank it I guess
01:52:09 <nslater> see openid, creative commons, wikipedia's coverage of linux, the swhack home page etc :(
01:52:12 * nslater laughs
01:56:32 <kpreid> completeness of backwards compatibility helps when you're trying to convince people to use yours...
01:56:39 <sbp> yeah
02:00:51 <nsh> there's no unicode for copyleft?
02:01:10 <sbp> you can use open o with enclosing combining circle
02:01:38 <sbp> that's so close as to basically be fine, I think
02:01:59 <nsh> wtf is an open o?
02:02:05 <sbp> .u small open o
02:02:06 <phenny> U+0254 LATIN SMALL LETTER OPEN O (ɔ)
02:02:10 <sbp> it's a backwards c, basically
02:02:36 <nsh> that char just looks sickly
02:02:42 <nsh> i would probably euthenise it
02:02:59 <nsh> certainly wouldn't let it out of its room and take it to family occasions
02:03:03 <sbp> crush its babies in phenol
02:03:29 <nsh> would be an option, but i'd suspect something that abominated would be sterile
02:03:57 <sbp> hehe
02:04:05 <sbp> well something must've begot it
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02:04:36 <nsh> i think a lot of unicode characters were made vis a gollum-like process
02:05:08 <nsh> basically dirt + evil + swinging a chicken around
02:05:33 <nsh> and possibly a dollop of seminal fluid, but only for symbolic purposes
02:06:34 <Arnia> Hm... decided to test photoreading as a technique. It has given me a very full feeling in my head, so I'm presuming that at least some of the information I just skimmed has begun unconscious processing
02:06:35 <phenny> Arnia: 13:01Z <sbp> tell Arnia ping command was suggesting incest.
02:06:59 <sbp> from 14:00 <Monty> 20:13 <sbp> Arnia: ping command was suggesting incest.
02:07:02 <Monty> tarmac Bob Marr was dismal configurability...
02:07:15 <nsh> .wik Bob Marr
02:07:17 <phenny> "David Francis 'Dave' Marr Jr. (December 27, 1933 – October 5, 1997) was an American professional golfer and sportscaster, best known for winning the 1965 PGA Championship." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Marr
02:07:22 <Arnia> Plus, I dipped back into the book and the sections seem a lot more familiar already
02:07:30 <nsh> aha
02:07:32 <sbp> .wik Photoreading
02:07:32 <phenny> "PhotoReading is a commercial learning product of Learning Strategies Corporation." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photoreading
02:07:50 <Arnia> We'll see whether or not it works in general... worth a punt though
02:08:04 <Arnia> if not, then no harm done
02:08:21 * nsh smiles
02:08:33 <nsh> i was going to say something about demonstrating the existence of the placebo effect
02:08:39 <nsh> but you were too cool, so i didn't bother
02:09:03 <nsh> moar srsr tho
02:09:25 <nsh> they've done some pretty conclusive experiments on subliminal reading ability
02:09:33 <Arnia> Well, the placebo effect is the same thing as it working in this case, or at least impossible to distinguish theoretically or practically
02:10:16 <nsh> there was one with schizophrenic patients that were flashed cards saying positive or negative things (one example i remember was "mother and i are one" -- which i'd have though was more creepy than conforting) and there were noticable emotional differences
02:10:27 <nsh> you can't learn via the placebo effect, Arnia
02:10:44 <nsh> if someone photoread a book and could predict the plot, that'd be evidence
02:10:59 <Arnia> nsh: to be fair, it isn't far from how I acquire information at full pelt anyway. I tend to enter the same alpha wave state I could feel the process inducing
02:11:28 <Arnia> But nachos have just arrived, so I'll be a little slow at responding now
02:11:46 <nsh> even with skin-resistance subconscious emotional response readings for a film the plot of which has been photoread you might see some "precogniscant" effect with a large enough sample size
02:11:50 <nsh> that'd be an interesting study
02:12:02 <nsh> nachos trump *
02:12:44 <Arnia> To be fair, the process of photoreading accords well with what I know of conscious vs unconscious information processing
02:13:10 <Arnia> That consciousness is a very slow, low capacity, and deductive system
02:13:53 <Arnia> And information acquisition depends on a more in/abductive connection making process which consciousness interferes with
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02:14:14 * sbp coughs something about creativity too
02:14:16 <Arnia> so as far as it goes, it is at least plausible
02:15:31 <nsh> mm
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02:17:14 <Arnia> When I use to revise, I did something very similar... spin through the material fast, go again a bit slower and manually induce a REM state to fix the ideas
02:18:04 <nslater> Arnia: does REM do that?
02:18:07 <nsh> manually induce a REM state?
02:18:46 <Arnia> nsh: I used to do meditation, and I trained myself to be able to drop into an alpha wave state but maintain consciousness, it is then quite easy to enter a REM state
02:19:16 <Arnia> If you lose concentration though, it is also very easy to fall asleep where you're sat
02:19:29 <Arnia> (not so good when you're sitting in a pub)
02:19:29 <Monty> It gets in stasis!
02:19:43 <nslater> uncanny
02:19:59 <nslater> .ety uncanny
02:20:00 <phenny> "1596, 'mischievous;' 1773 in the sense of 'associated with the supernatural,' originally Scottish and northern English, from un- (1) 'not' + canny." - http://etymonline.com/?term=uncanny
02:20:01 <Arnia> Ok, the pub was cuth's bar, but still
02:20:12 <nslater> .ety canny
02:20:13 <phenny> "1637, Scottish and northern England formation from can in its sense of 'know how to.' Often used superciliously of Scots by their southern neighbors, implying 'thrift and an eye to the main chance.'" - http://etymonline.com/?term=canny
02:20:58 <nslater> uncanny != mischievous
02:21:02 <Arnia> What it meant was, I could learn an entire module's worth of lecture slides in an afternoon
02:21:15 <Arnia> and understand them
02:21:25 <Arnia> (which is how I got away with not going to lectures)
02:21:35 <nsh> wai u no runnin' urth frm sekret bnkr?!
02:21:55 <Arnia> nsh: ?
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02:22:36 <nsh> if i could learn an entire module's worth of slides in an afternoon and understand them, i'd be ordering butlers for my butlers' butler's right now
02:22:44 <nsh> -last apostrophe
02:23:30 <nsh> hmm, the word butler has a remarkably short repetition-nonsense halflife
02:24:54 <Arnia> I learnt how to learn at a young age... it is just another skill which may be taught
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02:25:22 <Arnia> My mum made sure I learnt it
02:25:57 <nsh> cool
02:26:31 <Arnia> She also taught me to always try and find better ways to learn
02:26:43 <Arnia> Hence my test today
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02:32:02 <sbp> if you had to learn how to learn, how did you learn how to learn how to learn?
02:32:51 <Arnia> You know I have a weakness for meta
02:32:53 <nsh> i think douglas adams summed it up
02:33:44 <nsh> *reformats*
02:34:31 <nsh> [[[
02:34:32 <nsh> So, we may have accidentally stumbled upon the ultimate answer; its the only thing, the only force, arguably the most powerful of which we are aware, which requires no other input, no other support from any other place, is self evident, hence tautological, but nevertheless astonishingly powerful in its effects.
02:34:32 <nsh> Its hard to find anything that corresponds to that and I therefore put it at the beginning of one of my books. I reduced it to what I thought were the bare essentials, which are very similar to the ones you came up with earlier, which were:
02:34:32 <nsh> anything that happens happens, anything that in happening causes something else to happen causes something else to happen and anything that in happening causes itself to happen again, happens again. In fact you dont even need the second two because they flow from the first one, which is self-evident and theres nothing else you need to say;
02:34:36 <nsh> everything else flows from that. So, I think we have in our grasp here a fundamental, ultimate truth, against which there is no gain-saying. It was spotted by the guy who said this is a tautology. Yes, it is, but its a unique tautology in that it requires no information to go in but an infinite amount of information comes out of it. So I think that it is arguably therefore the prime cause of everything in the Universe.
02:34:41 <nsh> Big claim, but I feel Im talking to a sympathetic audience.
02:34:43 <nsh> ]]] -http://www.douglasadams.se/stuff/sand.html
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02:48:02 <sbp> “If you think about it, a collection that includes a fruit fly and Richard Dawkins and the Great Barrier Reef is an awkward set of objects to try and compare.”
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02:51:26 <_bjoern> .swhack Dawkins pwnd
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02:51:50 <phenny> _bjoern: http://swhack.com/logs/2008-05-18#T15-41-09
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03:08:03 <sbp> good talk
03:16:39 <_bjoern> .title http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gRUhowrjXrAojU5jM1zd2hyExSAQD90PPB380
03:16:39 <phenny> _bjoern: The Associated Press: Former CIA official indicted anew in bribery case
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04:08:33 <nslater> .ety man
04:08:34 <phenny> "O.E. man, mann 'human being, person,' from P.Gmc. *manwaz (cf. O.S., O.H.G. man, Ger. Mann, O.N. maðr, Goth. manna 'man'), from PIE base *man- (cf. Skt. manuh, Avestan manu-, O.C.S. mozi, Rus. muzh 'man, male')." - http://etymonline.com/?term=man
04:16:01 <nslater> I wish that the default HTML API was ElementTree and not DOM, DOM blows chunks
04:18:44 <nslater> it worries me that such things could exist on the whatwg mailing list: "I am curious why nything other than get or post is needed. Certainly the" - http://lists.whatwg.org/pipermail/help-whatwg.org/2007-August/000086.html
04:18:48 <nslater> action "CRUD" etc. can be any number of things....why have a seperate
04:18:51 <nslater> "delete" method?
04:19:08 <nslater> wow, what a weird way to bork my quotation
04:20:41 <nslater> funny that the guy who publicly demonstrates a lack of knowladge about the four http verbs includes "Web Architecture" as the very first bullet point on his CV
04:21:10 <nslater> it shouldnt be suprising, perhaps, that another bullet point is "MVC Design pattern"
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04:27:30 <nsh> .swhack term=tautology
04:27:56 <phenny> nsh: Sorry, no results found.
04:28:02 <nsh> fine
04:28:06 <nsh> .ety tautology
04:28:06 <phenny> "1579, from L.L. tautologia 'representation of the same thing' (c.350), from Gk. tautologia, from tautologos 'repeating what has been said,' from tauto 'the same' + -logos 'saying,' related to legein 'to say' (see lecture)." - http://etymonline.com/?term=tautology
04:28:27 <nsh> .gc site:etymonline.com tauto 'the same'
04:28:28 <phenny> site:etymonline.com tauto 'the same': 62
04:28:37 <_bjoern> a dyndns resume...
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04:28:48 <nsh> .gc site:etymonline.com "tauto 'the same'"
04:28:48 <phenny> site:etymonline.com "tauto 'the same'": 2
04:30:42 <nsh> .dict tautolite
04:30:45 <phenny> nsh: Sorry, no definition found.
04:30:49 <nsh> .gd tautolite
04:30:50 <phenny> tautolite: No definition found!
04:31:09 <nsh> .gd tautochrone
04:31:10 <phenny> tautochrone: Die Brachistochrone (gr. brachistos kürzeste, chronos Zeit) ist die schnellste Verbindung zweier Punkte durch eine Bahn, auf der ein Massenpunkt ...
04:31:26 <nsh> phenny, " Die Brachistochrone (gr. brachistos kürzeste, chronos Zeit) ist die schnellste Verbindung zweier Punkte durch eine Bahn, auf der ein Massenpunkt"?
04:31:38 <phenny> nsh: " the brachistochrone (gr. brachistos shortest, chronos time) is the fastest connection of two points by a course, on the one mass point" (de)
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04:36:52 <nslater> .title http://uk.news.yahoo.com/pressass/20080522/tuk-working-class-has-lower-iq-6323e80.html
04:37:02 <phenny> nslater: Working class 'has lower IQ' - Yahoo! News UK
04:37:14 <nslater> "Yet in all this debate a simple and vital fact has been missed: higher social classes have a significantly higher average IQ than lower social classes."
04:37:35 <nsh> RETURN OF THE OBVIOUS -- in cinemas now
04:38:08 <nslater> you agree with the idea that working class people are less inteligent? nsh?
04:38:14 <nsh> you shut up and die, prole
04:38:23 <nsh> oops, slightly misdirected rage there
04:38:40 <nsh> i can't be bothered to explain this issue atm though
04:38:48 <nslater> hmm?
04:40:09 <nsh> you know how some things are painfully obvious
04:40:24 <nsh> and that pain is compounded by how painfully unobvious they are to two differing groups of people
04:40:50 <nsh> and still further compounded by how painfully obvious the reasons for the lack of obvious in these conflicting nonclarities are
04:41:06 <nsh> that you just want to die and hope the next incarnation isn't a joke one too
04:41:09 <nsh> this is one of those things.
04:41:23 <nslater> I have no idea what you're talking about, sorry
04:41:38 * nsh nods
04:42:25 <nsh> when two people are arguing, and you know exactly why one thinks the other is wrong, and exactly why the other thinks the one is wrong
04:42:35 <nsh> by virtue of knowing exactly why both are wrong
04:42:46 <nsh> and yet you are completely unable to explain to either party
04:43:04 <nslater> I understand what you're saying but I am still trying to figure out if a) it's directed at me b) about me c) related to the link I just posted or d) something else completely
04:43:20 <nsh> without immediately appearing to be on one side or other of the chasm of stupidity that divides them
04:43:20 <nsh> not directed at you :-)
04:43:38 <nsh> anyway, i gotta go out to dinner and roll big cheeses offa dome shaped ice-rink roofs
04:43:39 <nslater> 1 down, 3 to go :p
04:43:42 <nslater> have funs
04:43:44 <nsh> peace
04:43:50 <nslater> word
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04:48:26 <clsn> Nearly awesomely-cool steampunk: http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/05/22/scope.project/index.html
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05:16:21 <sbp> phew, awesome
05:16:26 <sbp> just wrote a new essay for the essay series
05:16:33 <sbp> and it's nearly twice as long as the previous longest essay
05:16:49 <sbp> yet it was intended to be more compact and succinct; and it very possibly is
05:16:56 <sbp> so it's a kind of superessay
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05:18:25 <sbp> looks like it's taken about two and three quarter hours to write
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05:25:01 <thelsdj> the thought of what you could accomplish if you spent more than a few hours on a single piece of writing boggles the mind
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05:45:02 <Monty> Thank goodness, dmiles_afk is back!
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05:56:18 * sbp tentatively emits a heh at thelsdj, not sure of how much he was the fall guy there... :-)
05:56:53 <sbp> it wouldn't be much of an essay if it were the length of a book
05:57:17 <sbp> so I can't make them too long. this one was just about pushing the limit (4500 words)
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05:59:36 <sbp> the whole work is 39,500 words now
06:00:00 <_bjoern> That's a more reasonable limit than 81.
06:00:05 <sbp> hehe
06:05:18 <sbp> you still haven't made your 81 yet
06:05:37 <sbp> Arnia did his within about a minute of being challenged...
06:07:11 <_bjoern> .gcs "inverse enthusiasm" "negative enthusiasm"
06:07:13 <phenny> "negative enthusiasm" (638), "inverse enthusiasm" (7)
06:07:30 <sbp> .c 1 / enthusiasm
06:07:30 <phenny> sbp: Sorry, no result.
06:07:36 <sbp> hmm. perhaps e stands for enthusiasm
06:07:38 <sbp> .c 1 / e
06:07:39 <phenny> 1 / e = 0.367879441
06:07:52 <_bjoern> .c i/e
06:07:53 <phenny> i / e = 0.367879441 i
06:08:04 <sbp> .c (1 / e) + pi
06:08:04 <phenny> (1 / e) + pi = 3.50947209
06:08:29 <_bjoern> "The predominantly teen-age audience responded with inverse enthusiasm: the girls swayed rapturously; the boys cartwheeled over the heads of the crowd. " - NYT
06:08:47 <_bjoern> phenny, en de "The predominantly teen-age audience responded with inverse enthusiasm: the girls swayed rapturously; the boys cartwheeled over the heads of the crowd."?
06:08:48 <phenny> _bjoern: "das überwiegend jugendpublikum reagierte mit umgekehrter begeisterung: die mädchen beeinflußten rapturously; die jungen cartwheeled über den köpfen der masse." (en -> de)
06:09:05 <_bjoern> U UMLAUT STRIPPER
06:09:26 <_bjoern> Is this using the google ajax api already? I did send you the pointer.
06:09:38 <_bjoern> http://code.google.com/apis/ajaxlanguage/
06:09:59 <sbp> ooh, nope
06:10:02 <sbp> will try it
06:10:46 <_bjoern> Google now supports stuff like ro no sv fi dk cz
06:11:27 <sbp> ugh
06:11:29 <sbp> .title http://code.google.com/apis/ajaxsearch/signup.html
06:11:30 <phenny> sbp: Sign-up for an AJAX Search API Key - Google AJAX Search API - Google Code
06:11:37 <_bjoern> you don't have to
06:11:52 <_bjoern> " In addition, we ask, but do not require, that each request contains a valid API Key."
06:12:23 <sbp> aha
06:12:29 <sbp> well, if you can decipher http://www.google.com/jsapi that'd be handy
06:13:59 <_bjoern> where would that come in?
06:14:37 <_bjoern> I got there via http://search.cpan.org/src/HMA/WebService-Google-Language-0.02/lib/WebService/Google/Language.pm btw
06:15:16 <sbp> ah, a bit more useful. I couldn't find any uri + params specifics in the code.google.com stuff
06:15:18 <_bjoern> cf http://code.google.com/apis/ajaxlanguage/documentation/reference.html#_intro_fonje
06:15:37 <sbp> ah! great
06:17:26 <_bjoern> you could have tried the "docs" link...
06:18:25 <sbp> nu
06:18:29 <sbp> (and u did)
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06:34:31 <sbp> phenny: reload translate
06:34:32 <phenny> sbp: <module 'modules.translate' from '/var/www/inamidst.com/htdocs/phenny/modules/translate.py'> (version: 2008-05-23 18:06:36)
06:34:49 <sbp> phenny: "la chien est bleu et rouge"?
06:34:49 <phenny> sbp: "the dog is blue and red" (fr to en, translate.google.com)
06:35:01 <sbp> that's pretty neato
06:35:08 <sbp> phenny, en de "The predominantly teen-age audience responded with inverse enthusiasm: the girls swayed rapturously; the boys cartwheeled over the heads of the crowd."?
06:35:09 <phenny> sbp: "Die überwiegend jugendlich-Alter Publikum reagierte mit Begeisterung inverse: die Mädchen beirren rapturously; die Jungen cartwheeled über die Köpfe der Menge." (en to de, translate.google.com)
06:35:11 <bancus> phenny: "liebe ist raub"?
06:35:11 <phenny> bancus: "Love is robbery" (de to en, translate.google.com)
06:35:23 <bancus> Encoding issues, looks like.
06:35:27 <sbp> HOUSTON, WE GOT SOME DOUBLE ENCODING GOING ON HERE
06:36:18 <bancus> phenny: "halt mich fess; lass nie los"?
06:36:18 <phenny> bancus: "keep me fess; never let go" (de to en, translate.google.com)
06:36:31 <bancus> phenny: "halt mich fest; lass nie los"?
06:36:31 <phenny> bancus: "keep me; never let go" (de to en, translate.google.com)
06:36:35 <bancus> Hm.
06:38:32 <deltab> phenny: rubbery?
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06:40:02 <bancus> phenny, en fr "The light in the attic is on"?
06:40:02 <phenny> UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode characters in position 7-8: ordinal not in range(128) (file "/var/www/inamidst.com/htdocs/phenny/modules/translate.py", line 44, in translate)
06:40:08 <sbp> (in process of debugging)
06:40:11 <bancus> k
06:43:07 <sbp> phenny: en fr "The light in the attic is on"?
06:43:08 <phenny> sbp: "La lumière dans le grenier est sur" (en to fr, translate.google.com)
06:43:57 <sbp> phenny: tell nslater 16:0642f68ab537 2008-05-23 New translation module, using the Google Ajax interface.
06:44:09 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when nslater is around.
06:44:37 <sbp> thanks _bjoern!
06:44:55 <_bjoern> does it use google for lang rec aswell now?
06:45:02 <sbp> yes
06:45:15 <sbp> see for yourself: http://inamidst.com/phenny/modules/translation.py
06:45:27 <sbp> er, http://inamidst.com/phenny/modules/translate.py
06:46:06 <_bjoern> phenny, "Jeg hedder Björn. Clokken er femten!"?
06:46:07 <phenny> _bjoern: "I'm Björn. Clokken is fifteen!" (da to en, translate.google.com)
06:46:22 <_bjoern> phenny, "Jeg hedder Björn. Klokken er femten!"?
06:46:22 <phenny> _bjoern: "I'm Björn. It's fifteen!" (da to en, translate.google.com)
06:46:36 <sbp> no way is it fifteen
06:46:50 <_bjoern> Well in a weird time zone it is...
06:46:58 <sbp> oh yeahs
06:47:09 <_bjoern> You see I had my danish crash course in the afternoon...
06:47:20 <_bjoern> I am not sure I remember the other numbers...
06:48:09 <sbp> there's bonki and titjoijie and...
06:48:11 <_bjoern> atten should be 18
06:48:13 <sbp> wait, I'm thinking of something else
06:48:32 <sbp> the Dutch are a confusing lot
06:48:58 <_bjoern> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:Danish_cardinal_numbers
06:49:15 <sbp> oh yeah, seks, that was the other one. thanks
06:50:07 <_bjoern> phenny, "en to tres fire fem seks syv otte ni"?
06:50:08 <phenny> _bjoern: "a two sixty four five six seven eight nine" (da to en, translate.google.com)
06:50:35 <sbp> what's ten then, smartipijants?
06:51:16 <sbp> ah, ti
06:53:00 <bancus> phenny, en fr "The light in the attic is on"?
06:53:00 <phenny> bancus: "La lumière dans le grenier est sur" (en to fr, translate.google.com)
06:53:13 <bancus> I don't think that's quite right.
06:53:24 *** RobotGuy (n=robotguy@dsl093-038-072.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #swhack
06:53:24 <Monty> hi RobotGuy, how ya doing?
06:53:26 <sbp> tell them then. there's a feedback link on each translation page
06:53:38 <_bjoern> phenny, "La lumière dans le grenier est sur"?
06:53:39 <phenny> _bjoern: "The light in the attic is on" (fr to en, translate.google.com)
06:53:54 <bancus> I just think that "sur" means on top of.
06:53:56 <_bjoern> Can't blame it for lack of consistency
06:54:05 <bancus> phenny, en fr "The light in the attic is on your mom"?
06:54:06 <phenny> bancus: "La lumière en est le grenier de votre mère" (en to fr, translate.google.com)
06:54:13 <bancus> The fuck.
06:54:30 <sbp> phenny: en fr "no you"?
06:54:31 <phenny> sbp: "vous ne" (en to fr, translate.google.com)
06:54:31 <bancus> phenny, en fr "The light in the attic is on top of your mom"?
06:54:31 <_bjoern> phenny, en fr "you turn me on"?
06:54:32 <phenny> bancus: "La lumière dans le grenier est au-dessus de votre mère" (en to fr, translate.google.com)
06:54:33 <phenny> _bjoern: "vous Turn Me On" (en to fr, translate.google.com)
06:54:57 <_bjoern> phenny, en fr "you turn me off"?
06:54:57 <phenny> _bjoern: "vous Turn Me off" (en to fr, translate.google.com)
06:55:03 <_bjoern> phenny, en de "you turn me off"?
06:55:04 <phenny> _bjoern: "Sie mir off" (en to de, translate.google.com)
06:55:12 <_bjoern> od
06:55:17 <bancus> phenny, "Tengo un mono in mis pantalones, y me lo gusta."?
06:55:18 <phenny> bancus: "I have a monkey in my pants, and I love it." (es to en, translate.google.com)
06:56:02 <_bjoern> phenny, en de "Oh there is a monkey in my pockent and he's stealing all my change, his eyes are ... and glassy I suspect that he's deranged"?
06:56:03 <phenny> _bjoern: "Oh, es ist ein Affe in meinem pockent und er ist Diebstahl alle meine ändern, seine Augen sind ... gläsern und ich vermute, dass er gestört" (en to de, translate.google.com)
06:56:13 <sbp> phenny: ""Ver a mi PANTMONKEY. Extático ver su gloria"?
06:56:14 <phenny> sbp: ""See my PANTMONKEY. Ecstatic to see his glory" (es to en, translate.google.com)
06:56:18 <_bjoern> phenny, en de "Oh there is a monkey in my pocket and he's stealing all my change, his eyes are ... and glassy I suspect that he's deranged"?
06:56:19 <phenny> _bjoern: "Oh, es ist ein Affe in meiner Tasche und er ist Diebstahl alle meine ändern, seine Augen sind ... gläsern und ich vermute, dass er gestört" (en to de, translate.google.com)
06:56:42 <_bjoern> "?
06:56:45 <sbp> translate is more fun now that it's fast
06:56:48 <sbp> yeah, see the query
06:56:54 <sbp> also Google returns weird XMLish JSON
06:57:03 <bancus> Is mangle back yet?
06:57:09 <sbp> presumably to make it easier to just directly wank into some HTML
06:57:10 <sbp> nope
06:57:14 <_bjoern> Yeah that was more like my question
06:57:35 <_bjoern> perhaps they are too stupid to \u.... escape stuff
06:57:39 <sbp> I will make mangle to be
06:58:09 * bancus is still amused that "mangle" in lojban would be something like "darkfuck".
06:58:22 <_bjoern> you could allow phenny: a b c d e f g ... and use some cool functional operator to reduce it to a final translation.
07:01:29 <sbp> or u
07:01:57 <bancus> phenny: "Non, vous."?
07:01:58 <phenny> bancus: The fr to en translation failed, sorry!
07:02:09 <bancus> phenny: "Nein, du."?
07:02:10 <phenny> bancus: The de to en translation failed, sorry!
07:02:15 <bancus> What madness is this?
07:03:03 <_bjoern> the exception should perhaps carry the reason phrase...
07:03:15 <_bjoern> "responseDetails"
07:04:37 <sbp> reason is that I'm fucking with it
07:04:38 <Monty> potty mouth!
07:04:44 <_bjoern> hmm so ur is a unicode regex quote op..
07:04:55 <_bjoern> you need to go out more sbp.
07:05:54 <sbp> what's the point when I can fuck with it indoors?
07:06:15 <_bjoern> that is a trick question?
07:06:36 <sbp> NO. YES. MAYBE
07:06:45 <_bjoern> I thought as much.
07:07:14 <_bjoern> .gcs "maybe yes no" "yes maybe no" "no maybe yes" "maybe no yes"
07:07:17 <phenny> "yes maybe no" (149,000), "maybe no yes" (10,100), "no maybe yes" (851), "maybe yes no" (521)
07:08:14 <clsn> Most of those are probably labels for radio buttons.
07:08:19 <clsn> esp the "yes maybe no" set.
07:08:46 <sbp> translate works again
07:08:49 <sbp> mangle does not yet
07:10:30 <sbp> .mangle dude this is like seven donkeys taped to love
07:10:30 <phenny> sbp: .mangle hasn't been ported to my new codebase yet
07:10:33 <phenny> sbp: dude is like donkeys registered in September to love
07:11:53 <jsled> .mangle your mom is like donkeys registered in september to love
07:11:53 <phenny> jsled: .mangle hasn't been ported to my new codebase yet
07:11:57 <phenny> jsled: your mother is like donkeys registered in September in love
07:13:07 <sbp> .mangle this also is a test
07:13:07 <phenny> KeyError: u'mangle' (file "/var/www/inamidst.com/htdocs/phenny/bot.py", line 183, in call)
07:13:09 <phenny> sbp: is also a test
07:13:12 <sbp> sweet
07:13:32 *** RobotGuy has quit ("Konversation terminated!")
07:13:47 <nslater> this is really, really funny: http://www.cracked.com/video_16271_internet-party-2-intervention-myspace.html
07:13:47 <phenny> nslater: 18:17Z <sbp> tell nslater 16:0642f68ab537 2008-05-23 New translation module, using the Google Ajax interface.
07:13:59 <nslater> .title
07:14:00 <phenny> nslater: Internet Party 2: An Intervention for MySpace - Funny Videos | Cracked.com
07:14:36 <_bjoern> i
07:14:39 <_bjoern> kind
07:14:40 <_bjoern> a
07:14:42 <_bjoern> dis
07:14:43 <_bjoern> like
07:14:45 <_bjoern> the
07:14:47 <_bjoern> fr
07:14:51 <_bjoern> rate
07:14:55 <_bjoern> nd
07:14:59 <_bjoern> th
07:15:03 <_bjoern> ga s
07:15:26 <sbp> what pls
07:15:33 <_bjoern> Also it does not seem very funny
07:15:44 <sbp> oh, you watched the video
07:15:46 <nslater> you need to watch past the first minute
07:15:48 <sbp> I did not make that mistake
07:15:57 <nslater> it's funny sbp, it's FUNNY
07:16:02 <_bjoern> mang dude im like halfway through
07:16:19 <sbp> .mangle baby you can drive my car
07:16:26 <sbp> nslater: _bjoern doesn't think so. he's my crap filter
07:16:27 <phenny> sbp: Baby you can drive my car
07:16:37 <sbp> hmm, Google's getting too good at translating
07:16:43 <_bjoern> Is the librarian type going to undress?
07:16:46 <sbp> .mangle in the federation of olives there can only be one grape
07:16:48 *** mahound has quit ("Leaving")
07:16:50 <_bjoern> If not this was really a waste of time
07:16:54 <phenny> sbp: The combination of olives, grapes
07:16:58 <nslater> there is lesbian kissing
07:17:05 <nslater> but no undressing
07:17:06 <_bjoern> lies
07:17:09 <sbp> beep beep m'beep beep yeah!
07:17:17 <_bjoern> they hurt each other
07:18:13 <_bjoern> translate.google.com sucks a lot more than the language tools thingy on the main site.
07:18:44 <sbp> what language tools thingy on the main site?
07:18:46 <nslater> sbp: you're such a h8r
07:19:00 <_bjoern> .g language tools
07:19:03 <phenny> _bjoern: http://www.google.com/language_tools
07:19:05 <sbp> nslater: take it up with my crapfilter
07:19:13 <sbp> ah. hmm
07:19:16 <nslater> _bjoern: h8r
07:19:26 <sbp> well I don't know whether this ajax thing is translate.google.com or language_tools
07:19:34 <sbp> I just put it in there because I assumed it was the former
07:19:36 <_bjoern> neither i'd suppose
07:19:40 <sbp> because I didn't know about the latter
07:19:44 <sbp> fair enough
07:20:17 <sbp> omg redditdotted
07:20:31 <sbp> http://reddit.com/info/6kjav/comments/
07:20:37 <_bjoern> phenny, en no "Oh there's a xover in sbp's pocket and he's stealing all his web 2.0 karma"?
07:20:38 <phenny> _bjoern: "Oh there's a xover i sbp's pocket og han stjele all sin web 2,0 karma" (en to no, translate.google.com)
07:21:06 <sbp> that's a pretty funny thread
07:21:13 <sbp> stewardesses / tree / foxfire
07:25:33 <procto> I'm going to set up trac this weekend for djiyo (djiyo.com)
07:25:42 <procto> anyone in here interesting in giving me a hand in revamping the codebase?
07:25:48 <sbp> commiserations
07:26:11 <procto> sbp: for trac? or for opening up the project?
07:26:55 <sbp> trac
07:27:01 <nslater> trac is great!
07:27:18 <procto> I've never run my own trac instance, but I've very much enjoyed using it
07:27:26 <sbp> TRAC IS THE SUBJECT OF MY METEORIC DISLIKEATHON
07:27:35 <procto> it's just about what I would design if I was making something similar
07:27:39 <nslater> trac is easy to set up, you should have no problems
07:27:43 <procto> sbp: would you be inclined to contribute if I did not use it?
07:28:01 <nslater> procto: dont let sbp and his grumpyness influence you! :p
07:28:13 <sbp> yeah, best not let me and my grumpiness influence you
07:28:17 <procto> nslater: I'm probaby going to be using svn, just because it's easy, have anything to say about that?
07:28:24 <procto> as opposed to say, mercurial
07:28:28 <sbp> use trac and be an ærocock. nobody will notice anyway
07:28:36 <procto> which looks fun, but i've never used
07:28:37 <sbp> oh man, not svn
07:28:40 <nslater> not much more than I have been using that combination for my own stuff and work for about 4 years and it's great :)
07:28:48 <sbp> mercurial sucks all kids of ass, but it's better than svn
07:29:01 <sbp> darcs is more or less equivalently annoying to mercurial, incidentally
07:29:11 <sbp> mercurial wins just by a nose
07:29:14 <procto> sbp would have us all use hypercards running on plan9
07:29:26 <nslater> procto: I will agree that svn is not the best vcs, but it works and thats good enough for a lot of people
07:29:30 <sbp> no, I'd have you using mercurial and anything but trac! :-)
07:29:33 <nslater> plan9++
07:29:42 <procto> yeah, that's the main reason i'm picking svn
07:29:45 <sbp> svn lost me a load of data once
07:29:48 <procto> the highest available
07:29:52 <procto> availability
07:29:54 <sbp> even though I chose the supposedly safer database option
07:29:56 <nslater> I have also had no problems with it, I use svk as a client for distributed goodness
07:30:08 <sbp> and it pisses on mtimes, which is inexcusable
07:30:34 <sbp> trac has bizarre default security settings and doesn't have properly hierarchical (i.e. trimmable) URIs
07:30:45 <nslater> hmm?
07:30:56 <nslater> trimmable?
07:31:01 <procto> nslater: svk looks interesting. I'll check it out, thanks.
07:31:05 <sbp> yeah, like I griped at djb
07:31:16 <nslater> how long ago did you use track d00d?
07:31:25 * bancus wonders if the French dub of Beauty and the Beast renamed Lumiere.
07:31:25 <sbp> if http://example.com/first/second tells you shit about second, /first/ should tell you about some kind of superset of second
07:31:25 <procto> alright, time to leave work
07:31:26 <Monty> potty mouth!
07:31:27 <nslater> sounds like you tried it out 3 or more years ago
07:31:36 * procto has a dance lesson
07:31:43 <sbp> *first* tried it? probably not long after it came out
07:31:50 <sbp> last tried it? not all that long ago. it's freaking everywhere
07:32:01 <nslater> procto: svk is amazing, if you can forgive the fact that it breaks about once every three months with some crazy weird bug
07:32:09 <nslater> procto: but ive never had data loss, just inconvenience
07:32:13 <procto> it's the most common one according to some dude who said it at barcamp boston
07:32:22 <procto> trac is, that is
07:32:25 <procto> alright, I'm offerz
07:32:29 <sbp> cy'az
07:32:32 <nslater> bai2u
07:32:33 <sbp> ';agetc.
07:32:34 *** jeffarch has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
07:32:52 <sbp> typing dat ting and shit
07:32:54 <nslater> sbp: what would you recomend for an issue tracker?
07:33:03 <sbp> bugzilla of course!
07:33:05 <nslater> bonus points for integrated vcs and wiki
07:33:12 <nslater> bugzilla? you best be trollin'
07:33:16 <sbp> yeah, heh
07:33:24 * nslater smiles
07:33:41 <sbp> I've never needed one personally, so I have none to recommend
07:33:53 <sbp> I'd be very surprised if there is not one better than trac, however
07:34:07 <nslater> oh, there are plenty, but non that are free software
07:34:19 <nslater> www.unfuddled.com is really nice, but hosted
07:34:23 <sbp> ah good, so normal people can use 'em
07:34:49 <nslater> troll troll troll
07:35:00 <sbp> you know it mang!
07:35:07 <sbp> oh how it rain
07:35:08 <sbp> my it rain
07:35:09 <nslater> aye
07:35:10 <sbp> rain all day
07:35:13 <sbp> rain all night
07:35:20 <sbp> rain rain rain rain rain rain rain rain
07:35:26 <sbp> tell me didn't it rain rain rain children!
07:35:29 <clsn> googlecode gives you wiki and issue tracking. but then you're living on googlecode.
07:35:29 <sbp> rain all night long!
07:35:35 <sbp> OHHHH OOOOOOOOH MY! didn't it RAIN!
07:35:40 <nslater> clsn: yes, that last point is a big one :)
07:35:46 <clsn> Right.
07:35:54 <sbp> .wik Sister Rosetta Tharpe
07:35:54 <phenny> "Rosetta Tharpe (March 20, 1915 – October 9, 1973) was a pioneering Gospel singer, songwriter and recording artist who attained great popularity in the 1930s and 1940s with a unique mixture of spiritual lyrics and early rock accompaniment." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sister_Rosetta_Tharpe
07:35:59 <clsn> I DID put pyBlazon there. But I can understand not wanting to.
07:36:00 <nslater> I am upset the the current project I am working on is going to be hosted at savannah.gnu.org
07:36:02 <sbp> = awesome ** 2
07:36:21 <nslater> savannah makes me want to stab my eyes out
07:36:22 <bancus> It's been raining like a motherfucker here.
07:36:40 <bancus> Also hail/tornados/snow.
07:36:52 <bancus> And only five days ago, it was 107 degrees and sunny.
07:37:03 <bancus> .calce 107 degrees fahrenheit in celcius
07:37:08 <bancus> .calce 107 degrees fahrenheit in celsius
07:37:10 <nslater> heh
07:37:14 <bancus> .calc 107 degrees fahrenheit in celsius
07:37:15 <bancus> FFS
07:37:16 <phenny> 107 degrees fahrenheit in celsius = 1.8675022996339326471 fahrenheit -> celsius celsius
07:37:21 <sbp> try .c
07:37:23 <bancus> what the goddamned fuck
07:37:30 <nslater> wow, i bet you needed every single one of those decimal places, eh
07:37:31 <bancus> .calc 107 degrees fahrenheit in degrees celsius
07:37:31 <phenny> 107 degrees fahrenheit in degrees celsius = 1.8675022996339326471 fahrenheit -> 0.017453292519943295767 celsius degrees celsius
07:37:36 <sbp> try .c!
07:37:41 <nslater> nu
07:37:44 <bancus> .c 107 degrees fahrenheit in degrees celsius
07:37:44 <phenny> 107 degrees Fahrenheit = 41.6666667 degrees Celsius
07:37:47 <sbp> wins
07:37:54 <bancus> What's the difference in operation?
07:37:59 <bancus> I thought .c was just a shortcut.
07:38:03 <sbp> welp, .calc is the free software version now
07:38:13 <nslater> troll troll troll :p
07:38:16 <sbp> because phenny is on debian now she has to be all straight and proppah
07:38:19 <sbp> no, it's true
07:38:27 <nslater> heh
07:38:32 <sbp> I can't make .c public because it's all screenscrappy
07:38:38 <sbp> so that's the one that uses Googlez
07:38:43 <sbp> and .calc uses a thing call Frink
07:38:44 <bancus> It is presently 54 degrees.
07:38:45 <nslater> google api supports calc?
07:38:49 <sbp> which is actually quite cool when you know how to use it
07:38:53 <bancus> .c 54 degrees fahrenheit in degrees celsius
07:38:54 <phenny> 54 degrees Fahrenheit = 12.2222222 degrees Celsius
07:38:55 <Monty> sitting in really funny: http://www.cracked.com/video_16271_internet-party-2-intervention-myspace.html
07:38:56 <sbp> but using it is a complete pile of dick
07:39:01 <nslater> Monty: thats ace!
07:39:02 <bancus> So from 42 to 12.
07:39:04 <Monty> In all honesty, laughable appearance grows Peruvian envelopes :P
07:39:06 <nslater> Monty: great link!
07:39:06 <Monty> BEEP
07:39:09 <bancus> Midday temp.
07:39:10 <sbp> BEEP
07:39:14 <nslater> BEEP
07:39:17 <bancus> In only five days.
07:39:27 <sbp> phenny: tell nsh BEEP
07:39:27 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when nsh is around.
07:39:30 <sbp> phenny: tell Arnia BEEP
07:39:30 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when Arnia is around.
07:39:33 <bancus> Brutal sun, to hydroplane-city and tornado-death.
07:39:36 <sbp> phenny: tell Morbus BEEP
07:39:36 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when Morbus is around.
07:39:40 <sbp> phenny: tell xover BEEP
07:39:40 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when xover is around.
07:39:43 <nslater> wtf
07:39:46 <sbp> phenny: tell clsn BEEP
07:39:46 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when clsn is around.
07:39:49 * bancus has been hydroplaning like a mad bastard on I-210.
07:39:51 <sbp> nslater: BEEP
07:39:57 <nslater> phenny: tell plum BEEP
07:39:58 <phenny> nslater: I'll pass that on when plum is around.
07:40:00 <bancus> One area in particular has been getting really hard rain.
07:40:00 <plum> plz sign up for the phenny? phenny runs on bia.
07:40:00 <phenny> plum: 19:13Z <nslater> tell plum BEEP
07:40:03 <plum> when did nslater get kicked? it's nslater that got me into it. haha
07:40:05 <plum> tell me about _bjoern, does she beep with ^g? rofl
07:40:19 *** sbp changed the topic to: "<plum> tell me about _bjoern, does she beep with ^g? rofl"
07:40:21 <sbp> beep
07:40:27 <nslater> BEEP
07:40:30 <sbp> BEEP
07:40:35 <nslater> choxelles
07:40:36 <clsn> BOOP
07:40:37 <phenny> clsn: 19:13Z <sbp> tell clsn BEEP
07:40:39 <sbp> phenny: tell thelsdj BEEP
07:40:39 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when thelsdj is around.
07:40:56 <sbp> phenny: tell kpreid BEEP
07:40:56 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when kpreid is around.
07:41:00 <sbp> phenny: tell jsled BEEP
07:41:01 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when jsled is around.
07:41:03 <sbp> BEEP
07:41:15 <nslater> phenny: tell pwaring BEEP (also VROOOOOM)
07:41:16 <phenny> nslater: I'll pass that on when pwaring is around.
07:41:19 <jsled> BIP
07:41:20 <phenny> jsled: 19:14Z <sbp> tell jsled BEEP
07:41:36 <bancus> WTF.
07:41:42 <nslater> BEEP?
07:41:43 * bancus is looking at weather advisories for his area.
07:41:58 <bancus> I'm under flood watch, and the mountains/hills to the north are under "Winter Weather Advisory".
07:42:25 <sbp> neaẗo
07:42:38 <bancus> Especially given that it's less than a month to Summer.
07:42:53 <clsn> The weather here is beautiful.
07:42:56 <nslater> remind me 19 hours and 16 minutes to be 1337
07:43:03 <nslater> damn
07:43:05 <kpreid> *CLICK* DOES NOT COMPUTE
07:43:06 <phenny> kpreid: 19:14Z <sbp> tell kpreid BEEP
07:43:09 <nslater> omh, such much fail
07:43:14 <pwaring> beep + vroom?
07:43:14 <phenny> pwaring: 19:14Z <nslater> tell pwaring BEEP (also VROOOOOM)
07:43:31 <clsn> And the school is the kids to a park for the day. How lovely. :)
07:43:31 <clsn> .wik lag ba'omer
07:43:32 <bancus> Hm.
07:43:32 <phenny> "Lag Ba'omer (Israeli and Ashkenazi) or Lag La'omer (Sephardi) is a Jewish holiday celebrated on the thirty-third day of the counting of the Omer which is on the 18th of Iyar." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lag_Ba'omer
07:43:34 <sbp> VROooooNMmm̈e!
07:43:36 <bancus> I think the roof is leaking again.
07:43:42 <kpreid> (context: http://project-apollo.net/mos/mos365.html )
07:43:42 <clsn> That's today.
07:43:47 <sbp> kzxkvjxzkjvkzjhununkahunkahunka-gjoooooooooooo
07:43:49 <nslater> remind me in 19 hours and 19 minutes to be 1337
07:43:50 <Monty> nslater: Okay, I'll remind you about that on Sat May 24 15:36:08 BST 2008
07:43:55 <nslater> omg
07:44:01 <nslater> omg omg
07:44:31 <sbp> kpreid: heh, that's pretty lolfuns
07:44:32 * nslater runs away
07:46:02 <sbp> sorry, nslater is in use right now
07:46:09 <sbp> please run away later, or leave a message
07:46:54 <sbp> <clsn> And the school is the kids to a park for the day. How lovely. :)
07:46:59 <sbp> E_NOVERBBUTTAKINGASSUMED
07:47:58 <sbp> hehe. that could be interpreted as: NO VERB BUTT A KING ASSUMED
07:48:19 <clsn> Oooh. Yeah, I changed the tense I think and accidentally deleted the verb whilst at it.
07:48:33 <sbp> “whoops”
07:48:42 <clsn> It's customary to do outdoorsy things on Lag Ba'omer. In Israel they light bonfires 'n' stuff.
07:49:21 * sbp reads the Wikipedia page
07:49:57 <sbp> gah, what a boring page
07:50:14 <sbp> clsn: please convey ye awesome of Lag Ba'omer in twenty words or less
07:50:22 <sbp> u can do it mang!
07:50:43 <clsn> Middle of period of semi-sadness in the calendar, Lag Ba'omer is non-sad day therein, so everyone celebrates.
07:50:50 <sbp> aha, cool
07:51:05 <clsn> It isn't much more than that at root, but holidays get exaggerated because people want excuses.
07:51:20 <sbp> so it's like BE SAD, BE SAD, BE SAD, normal day so be not sad for a bit, SAD DAY, SAD DAY, BE SAD PLZ
07:51:33 *** libby has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
07:52:04 <clsn> Well, it is mildly happy. I think. Oh, and the linguistically cool bit: "Lag" isn't a word.
07:52:09 <sbp> (also seventeen words: well done)
07:52:14 <sbp> oh what is it?
07:52:27 <sbp> salt with comma to flavour
07:52:41 <clsn> It's a pronunciation of the number-written-with-letters for "33", since it's the 33rd day of the Omer.
07:52:49 <sbp> besalt that bezitch
07:52:56 <sbp> aha
07:53:11 <clsn> The only way I can remember my Hebrew-calendar birthday is that it's the 32nd day of the Omer; I rarely can tell you it;s the 17th of Iyar.
07:53:22 <sbp> phenny: tell d8uv agreed that Inner Universe kicks ferile monkey ass
07:53:22 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when d8uv is around.
07:53:53 <clsn> 33 -> L + G (usual Gk/Heb gematria), plus a vowel to pronounce it.
07:54:19 <clsn> We also call the holiday on the 15th of Shvat "Tu Bishvat" for the same reasoning. 15 -
07:54:47 <clsn> 15 -> 9+6 -> T + W (that's emphatic T, cognate to theta). Vocalize the W to U.
07:54:53 <clsn> Why 9+6 and not 10+5 you ask?
07:55:18 <clsn> Because 10+5 would be I + H, or rather YH, which is a name of God, and we don't go messing with things like that just for numbers.
07:55:54 <clsn> So numbering goes ... 10, 10+1, 10+2, 10+3, 10+4, 9+6, 9+7, 10+7, 10+8 10+9...
07:56:09 <clsn> (10+6 is YW, also a short-form of YHWH)
07:56:11 <sbp> why 9+7 and noyadda yadda
07:56:12 <sbp> ah
07:56:22 <clsn> But a lesser-known one.
07:57:08 <clsn> Hebrew's big on pronouncing acronyms and making words out of them (lots easier in Hebrew because you don't need vowels). These are rare cases of doing the same with numbers.
07:57:44 <clsn> (hey, in Greek they count α β γ δ ε στ ζ η... have fun with that for a while)
07:58:39 <sbp> do you know of any rules about the tetragrammaton over the web?
07:58:52 <clsn> oddly enough, yes. some.
07:59:33 <clsn> remember, I had that tetragrammaton in Unicode proposal years ago.
07:59:36 <sbp> I mean, if someone pasted one of the really sacred versions, one of the you've gotta burn your eyes out now ones, then what do you do about it? carefully unscrew your hard drive and ship it off to be buried next to some sacred river?
07:59:45 <sbp> yup, I remember you had some involvement in all that stuff
07:59:55 <sbp> I remember Michael Everson did a majorly cool piece on it
08:00:20 <clsn> As I understand it, even the loonier stringentizers agree that text on the screen doesn't count as written permanently and it may be shut off.
08:00:28 <clsn> *I* did a lot of that majorly cool piece. :)
08:00:38 *** Talliesin (n=Talliesi@83.147.166.27) has joined #swhack
08:00:55 <sbp> aha! in that case, I impart appreciations of awesometacularities unto you, sir!
08:00:58 <clsn> Though I have heard people sufficiently loony to recommend that the screen be left alone until the screen-saver kicks in so as not to erase it yourself)
08:01:35 <clsn> I have to write another one. They rejected that, and maybe they were right. But they have to do SOMEthing, since the questions raised are still valid and need SOME kind of answer.
08:01:49 <clsn> I did more research afterward.
08:01:50 <sbp> what's the main big question?
08:02:13 <clsn> It's nothing AT ALL religious. It's purely a typographical point. People kept saying this was for religious reasons, grr.r..
08:02:49 <clsn> It is my contention that the Tetragrammaton has been treated, in Hebrew writing and typography, as a special "dingbat" in many cases, and not like a collection of letters.
08:03:18 <clsn> Particularly considering that many of the ways it has been written *cannot* be written with combinations of letters, as they have weird squiggles or whatever.
08:03:20 <sbp> so the basic issue is that there should be a character for it?
08:03:40 <clsn> And there's a common usage in Sephardic prayer-books that cannot be written in plain *or* fancy formatted text.
08:03:42 <sbp> thing is, doesn't that mean there should be a character for all the variants?
08:04:04 <sbp> some of us have to deal with our gaiji...
08:04:10 <clsn> Well, the initial proposal was that there should be a character for it, a single character and all the weird versions would be considered glyphic variants.
08:04:21 <clsn> I don'
08:04:23 <sbp> hmm
08:04:32 <clsn> I don't honestly know how they can solve all the issues at issue.
08:04:40 <clsn> But I think SOMEthing has to be worked on.
08:04:58 <sbp> well problem is, if they standardise on something balls now, it'll be harder to fix it later on, no?
08:05:15 <clsn> *laugh* How much Unicode discussion have you read? :)
08:05:17 <sbp> though perhaps it'll just be like the ezh/yogh situation
08:05:18 <sbp> heh
08:05:37 <clsn> Unicode is so utterly screwed up because of things like that. But you can never get it REALLY RIGHT.
08:06:23 <sbp> I could, because I'd commission Arnia to make a relativistic NARS-up-the-wazoo version
08:06:26 <sbp> and it would pwn all
08:06:27 <clsn> All *over* the place in mediæval texts they write it with a *triangle* of YODs. Never saw that myself until I started researching it, but then I had to stop marking down instances of it because it was so common.
08:06:41 <sbp> awesome
