00:07:13 <MoiraA> hello
00:07:50 <MoiraA> phenny: tell sbp "I get stupider every day"
00:07:50 <phenny> MoiraA: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
00:07:57 <MoiraA> thanks
00:10:51 * Arnia cries as he tries to figure out a sensible algebra for NALish truth values
00:19:23 <kpreid> Arnia: hmm?
00:22:41 <Arnia> Ok, I'm trying a matrix algebra approach to NAL-1 reasoning
00:22:58 <kpreid> .wik matrix algebra
00:22:59 <Arnia> I want two operators * and + which form a ring
00:22:59 <phenny> "Matrix algebra can refer to" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrix_algebra
00:23:26 <Arnia> * should act like deduction and + like revision
00:23:49 <Arnia> They should also have multiplicative and additive identities
00:24:07 <zachb> I fail at SVN
00:24:08 <kpreid> That sounds plausible so far
00:24:18 <_bjoern> Hello MoiraA
00:24:20 <Arnia> The operators should commute, but I'm not too bothered if they don't distribute right now, but they should be associative
00:24:20 <kpreid> zachb: #svn is quite helpful
00:24:29 <zachb> Oh, yeah... I ended up getting it
00:24:40 <zachb> but it took me an hour to undo a revision >_>
00:24:41 <Arnia> Now, with the deduction rule as it is right now I don't have a multiplicative identity
00:25:01 <zachb> Wait, Arnia, how does Matrix algebra apply?
00:25:09 <Arnia> (because the confidence of the conclusion includes the frequency of the antecedents)
00:25:14 <MoiraA> hi bancus
00:25:27 <Arnia> zachb: form the adjacency matrix of a graph
00:25:32 <zachb> Ah, okay
00:25:47 <zachb> and these + & * are fictitious operators as of now
00:25:59 <Arnia> Yeah
00:26:10 <zachb> they don't directly correspond to normal matrix + $ *... ah good
00:26:23 <zachb> Go on, I get it now :P
00:26:40 <Arnia> Well, there is no 'normal' matrix + and *. It depends what field the matrix is defined over
00:27:15 *** clsn has quit (Remote closed the connection)
00:27:39 <zachb> ...fine ;P The * where it's a pain in the ass to do by hand on large matricies ;P
00:27:52 <Arnia> Now, complex numbers don't have the right properties (as we've already established about six months ago) and split-complex numbers don't either
00:28:05 <Arnia> zachb: well, it is only a pain if you do it by hand... however...
00:28:11 <kpreid> Arnia: I see what you're trying to do, but I don't have any thinking on how to do it
00:28:23 <zachb> But yeah, sorry, I'm rambling
00:29:20 <Arnia> The problem is always the confidence...
00:29:37 <Arnia> hm
00:29:39 <zachb> Hmm
00:29:52 <zachb> Why would you need complex numbers?
00:30:03 * Arnia sighs and tries to think again
00:30:09 <Arnia> zachb: convenient field
00:30:25 <zachb> Sorry... I just assumed that it would be a 2-row matrix...
00:30:40 <Arnia> Hm?
00:30:48 <kpreid> .wik adjacency matrix
00:30:49 <phenny> "In mathematics and computer science, the adjacency matrix of a finite directed or undirected graph G on n vertices is the n × n matrix where the nondiagonal entry aij is the number of edges from vertex i to vertex j, and the diagonal entry aii is either twice the [...]" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adjacency_matrix
00:31:10 <kpreid> as you can see by that definition: no.
00:31:13 <zachb> Ahh... thanks
00:31:41 <Arnia> I use a slightly weirder form of matrix, but basically that's what it comes down to
00:31:54 <MoiraA> SBP !
00:31:59 <Arnia> aha... I've gotten one algebra which works by changing the deduction rule
00:32:01 <MoiraA> help me
00:32:05 <Arnia> But is it a field...
00:32:10 * Arnia checks the axioms
00:32:21 <kpreid> Arnia: changing it how?
00:32:29 <Arnia> c = c1 c2
00:32:36 <Arnia> Not c = f1 c1 f2 c2
00:33:07 <kpreid> hm. what's the motive for including the fs?
00:33:42 <Arnia> See, I've never really gotten that myself. I think I mentioned that around christmas when I was playing with the complex number attempt
00:33:56 <Arnia> I felt that confidence was misdefined somehow
00:34:01 *** clsn (n=shoulson@pi.meson.org) has joined #swhack
00:34:22 <kpreid> Well, Pei Wang himself did say that the truth functions were tentative
00:34:28 <Arnia> Yeah, true
00:34:28 <Monty> then found it would probably work for including giving her legs part, his own country another backup sets
00:34:40 <Arnia> Which is why I don't feel too bad about changing it
00:35:00 <kpreid> I'd be inclined to go with the thing that makes it a ring
00:35:22 <Arnia> And I know he has separate rules for abduction, induction and exemplification but I don't like that. I am just going to use deduction and conversion
00:35:44 <Arnia> Hopefully conversion will turn out to be a form of inverse
00:36:18 <Arnia> actually, no, it can't turn out to be an inverse
00:36:30 <Arnia> Anyway yes, keeping a ring would be nice
00:36:42 <Arnia> I am trying to think about how to add fieldness
00:42:58 <Arnia> Hm. It can't be a ring or a field :/
00:43:12 <kpreid> Why the former?
00:43:15 <Arnia> I don't have an additive inverse or a multiplicative inverse
00:43:24 <kpreid> aah
00:43:33 <kpreid> no anti-information
00:43:58 <kpreid> Well, you could add that and see what you get
00:44:59 <Arnia> Hm... that's an interesting thought. And it makes sense given other stuff I've been thinking about (retractions in epistemology)
00:45:53 <Arnia> Now what would a multiplicative inverse look like? A truth value for a statement which is necessarily totally true when deduction is applied
00:45:58 <_bjoern> cherry, jump on kpreid!
00:46:02 <cherry> it's probably more reliable than having many special-purpose apis.
00:46:31 <kpreid> Arnia: "X or not X"?
00:46:38 <zachb> wouldn't anti-information be if you knew it was a lie?
00:46:38 <Monty> .talk safe to himself .
00:46:49 <_bjoern> .wik anti-information
00:46:51 <phenny> "The Wikidomination Document is a recently uncovered computer file outlining the coverup of the true nature of Wikipedia and its sister projects." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:April_fools/April_Fools'_Day_2006/Wikidomination_Document
00:46:53 <_bjoern> .wik desinformation
00:46:55 <Arnia> zachb: no, that's information still
00:46:55 <phenny> "This picture seems a bit off to me." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_talk:ProtestantBranches.svg
00:47:10 <zachb> But wouldn't it be it?
00:47:22 <nslater> cherry!
00:47:22 <_bjoern> .wik disinformation
00:47:23 <phenny> "Disinformation is the deliberate dissemination of false information." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disinformation
00:47:24 <cherry> if we imply a p # element in non-wf2 uas). case a is the web author to add it.
00:47:28 <Arnia> zachb: anti-information is something which destroys evidence (i.e. neutralises confidence, rather than frequency)
00:47:28 <_bjoern> nslater!
00:47:36 <nslater> _bjoern!
00:47:42 <_bjoern> it's I! still!
00:47:44 <nslater> plum!
00:47:46 <nslater> Arnia!
00:47:47 <plum> i think most is still relevant, lol someone i look at loans still.
00:48:03 <nslater> plum, LOAN ftw
00:48:04 <zachb> Arnia: I guess you're right, but I mean, as far as +^-1 goes...
00:48:06 <plum> markov chain algorithm ftw, earplugs or loud music ftw.
00:48:09 <zachb> Maybe not...
00:48:19 <_bjoern> yo plum
00:48:21 <plum> not so but i lol'd, you're not 16 stone. lmao
00:48:33 <_bjoern> I'd like to be 16 and stoned.
00:48:39 <kpreid> Arnia: that sounds very retractionish
00:48:40 <Arnia> kpreid: Think in terms of term logic... S --> M <f,c>, a multiplicative inverse would be a statement M --> P inv<f,c> which produces the conclusion S --> P <1,1>
00:48:47 <_bjoern> In fact, I'd like to be 16 or stoned.
00:49:12 <nslater> plum is 16 AND stoned
00:49:17 <plum> so you'll know which print statement is creating the output, native c is not considered an optimisation here.
00:49:49 <kpreid> Arnia: That's mighty funny looking
00:50:03 <Arnia> kpreid: you see what I mean though?
00:50:06 <kpreid> yes
00:50:17 <kpreid> otherwise I wouldn't say it was funny
00:50:26 <Arnia> <1,1> is the multiplicative identity, and <0,0> is the additive
00:50:47 <kpreid> yup, yup
00:51:00 <zachb> And we're dealing w/ numbers s.t. 0 <= x <= 1, right?
00:51:13 <zachb> not that it matters much, just checking
00:51:23 <kpreid> classic-NAL-ly, yes
00:51:57 <Arnia> We could also work according to w/w+ if we wanted
00:52:12 <Arnia> The equations would be a little more hairy, but basically the same
00:52:17 * kpreid idly wonders about -1 <= f <= 1
00:52:37 <kpreid> (just stretching the range)
00:52:58 * zachb wonders about a + bi; -1 <= a <= 1; -1 <= b <= 1...
00:53:03 <Arnia> kpreid: wouldn't alter the basic behaviour (except possibly around 0) as the density of the sets is the same
00:53:08 <zachb> QUATERNIONS! :D
00:53:36 <Arnia> kpreid: to allow a multiplicative inverse I'd need to have f in R rather than in [0,1]
00:53:42 <Arnia> Or at least in R+
00:53:46 <kpreid> yeah, I was just thinking that
00:54:11 <kpreid> Maybe you can say they exist, but are other-than-directly-meaningful?
00:54:51 *** RobotGuy (n=robotguy@dsl093-038-072.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #swhack
00:54:55 <Arnia> Yeah. That's allowable, and I was considering it, but I was thinking about how they might be indirectly meaningful
00:55:12 <Arnia> That was why I wrote out the deduction above, to try and picture what such an inverse does
00:55:19 <kpreid> i.e. <2,0.5> is to truth as 0+1i is to counting apples
00:55:31 <zachb> :P
00:55:53 <Arnia> kpreid: yeah, or to probability
00:55:56 <zachb> How much will you give me for 1 + 3i apples? I spent -12 minutes trying to pick them!
00:56:08 <Arnia> (I do have a slight smitten thing going on with exotic probabilities atm)
00:57:30 <zachb> http://www.bash.org/?6443
00:59:44 <Arnia> Hm... it might be better to treat these truth values as {w+,w} instead
00:59:54 <Arnia> That way scalar multiplication is defined
01:00:14 <Arnia> (just multiply the amount of evidence without effecting the degree of belief)
01:00:27 <kpreid> reasonable
01:00:36 <Arnia> So, n * <w+, w> = <n * w+, n * w>
01:01:02 <Arnia> That would give a vector space too
01:01:07 <kpreid> deduction and revision expressed over w+,w are...?
01:01:16 <Arnia> Hairy :p
01:01:23 <kpreid> oh? thinking
01:01:24 <Arnia> Give me a sec to format it in a reasonable fashion
01:01:59 <kpreid> hm, yes, hairy
01:02:22 <zachb> moustache?
01:02:34 <Arnia> Although, since the two forms are interconvertable, I don't really have a problem with using one for expressing one thing and the other for another
01:02:47 <Arnia> The two sets of truth value forms are isomorphic
01:03:40 <kpreid> w = (w1 / w+1)(w2 / w+2)(w1)(w2) -- something like that, to start?
01:03:47 <kpreid> (yeah, I know that)
01:05:17 <kpreid> w+ = (w+1)(w+2)....gah, I quit
01:06:59 <MoiraA> what I need is very basic
01:07:29 <_bjoern> http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Image:Die_caution.jpg
01:07:51 <_bjoern> cherry, r u ma mon cherry?
01:07:54 <cherry> that would work. it's probably the biggest complaint of the examples above so they get to xml well-formedness is not in the security implications of their way to get experimental implementations can then just handles anything from anyone. they did not appear to be able to access the database.
01:08:44 <_bjoern> phenny, tell sbp http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Image:Dave2goatse.jpg
01:08:46 <phenny> _bjoern: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
01:09:11 <zachb> Is it goatsex++?
01:09:15 <Arnia> kpreid: yeah... my notebooks are full of evil derivations like that
01:09:29 <Arnia> kpreid: really depressing that I'm so stubborn that I didn't decide to stop :p
01:10:29 <_bjoern> You know, Hard Work Often Pays Off After Time, but Laziness Always Pays Off Now...
01:10:59 <zachb> .ety cyclical
01:11:00 <phenny> Can't find the etymology for "cyclical". Try http://etymonline.com/?search=cyclical
01:11:16 <zachb> You Know, All Caps Makes _Bjoern A Dull Boy
01:11:51 <_bjoern> don't blame me, I didn't want to type the whole thing so I copied and pasted the next best things from google.
01:11:55 <Arnia> gah... doesn't matter anyway, I can't make it a ring
01:12:34 <Arnia> Distributivity seems to fail
01:13:01 * _bjoern smells algebra
01:14:16 <kpreid> Distributivity ought to work
01:14:31 <kpreid> [huh, look, same word lengths]
01:15:11 <Arnia> Well, deduction doesn't distribute over revision
01:15:17 <kpreid> (a + b)c = ac + bc
01:15:29 <kpreid> Makes sense in that direction...
01:15:30 <Arnia> Maybe revision distributes over deduction
01:15:41 <kpreid> (given + as revision)
01:15:49 <kpreid> Hm
01:16:00 <Arnia> <f1, c1> . <f2, c2> = <f1 f2, c1 c2>
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01:17:54 <Arnia> <f1, c1> + <f2, c2> = <[f1 c1(1 - c2) + f2 c2 (1 - c1)] / [c1 (1 - c2) + c2 (1 - c1)], [c1 (1 - c2) + c2 (1 - c1)] / [c1 (1 - c2) + c2 (1 - c1) + (1 - c1) (1 - c2)]>
01:18:02 <Arnia> (sorry about the hideousness of that...)
01:19:27 <Arnia> Now, work through <f1, c1> . (<f2, c2> + <f3, c3>) and I get frequency correct but not confidence
01:22:40 <zachb> http://76.118.203.70/svgjs/test.svg -- who's impressed?! (view source to be even *more* impressed!)
01:24:02 <Arnia> doesn't work in WebKit 3
01:26:09 <_bjoern> doesn't work in asv6
01:27:00 <_bjoern> it's gui widgets in svg
01:27:41 <_bjoern> not too shabby, but I'm no fan of non-native widgets...
01:29:54 <_bjoern> http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Image:Fuck_yeah.gif
01:32:02 <Arnia> kpreid: any ideas?
01:32:20 <kpreid> no
01:32:25 <zachb> Arnia: yeah, I know. Good thing is that it is just a script-loading problem, not actual SVG/ECMAscript
01:32:33 <zachb> ...that is causing it
01:32:53 <Arnia> actually, frequency doesn't work either
01:32:57 <zachb> as far as ASV6 goes... I must have broke something recently
01:33:16 <Arnia> So, either I redefine revision or this has been another exercise in futility
01:33:23 <Arnia> It is irritating though
01:33:35 <_bjoern> some unsupported prop/meth on "line 93 col 0"
01:36:27 <zachb> _bjoern: doesn't happen to tell you what file?
01:38:01 <_bjoern> document.write('<script id="__ie_onload" defer src="' + ((location.protocol == 'https:') ? '//0' : 'javascript:void(0)') + '"><\/script>');
01:38:04 <_bjoern> is the line
01:38:10 <_bjoern> if I activate script debugging
01:38:17 <_bjoern> not sure which file...
01:39:39 <Arnia> <f1,c1> . (<f2,c2> + <f3,c3>) = <[f1f2c2(1-c3) + f1f3c3(1-c2)]/[c2(1-c3) + c3(1-c2)], [c3c2(1-c3) + c1c3(1-c2)]/[c2(1-c3) + c3(1-c2) + (1-c2)(1-c3)]>
01:41:46 <zachb> _bjoern: thanks
01:42:13 *** cre8radix|off has quit ()
01:42:19 <Arnia> <f1,c1>.<f2,c2> + <f1,c1>.<f3,c3> = <[f1f2c1c2(1-c1c3) + f1f3c1c3(1-c1c2)]/[c1c2(1-c1c3) + c1c2(1-c1c3)], [c1c2(1-c1c3) + c1c3(1-c1c2)]/[c1c2(1-c1c3) + c1c3(1-c1c3) + (1-c1c2)(1-c1c3)]>
01:42:22 <zachb> But woah, I've never seen this before! (the line is part of FastInit) -- they use some odd comment/if syntax
01:42:28 <Arnia> Which ain't the same
01:42:31 <zachb> Woah, Arnia!
01:49:14 <Arnia> yeah, fun
01:49:14 <Monty> ? bring him Peter said goat*e
01:55:21 <_bjoern> it's a jscript feature for conditional compilation
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01:55:51 <_bjoern> cherry: Monty says goat*e because he misses twe. Do you miss dahut?
01:55:52 <Monty> Oh, yeah... same
01:55:54 <cherry> this: <meter value="0.25">400k / 16,000k</meter> ...will show a 2.5% meter. assuming you meant by that uri. store it in mind that microsoft will be addressed by this.
01:56:28 *** _bjoern changed the topic to: "<cherry> store it in mind that microsoft will be addressed by this."
02:01:18 <_bjoern> .gc "petersberger steuerbeschlüsse"
02:01:19 <phenny> "petersberger steuerbeschlüsse": 91
02:01:22 <_bjoern> impressive
02:01:42 * Arnia sighs
02:02:07 <_bjoern> You should sigh in bed Arnia.
02:02:19 <Arnia> It is only 3pm
02:02:22 <Arnia> uh, am
02:02:27 <_bjoern> see what I mean
02:02:34 <Arnia> Ooh, sun is rising
02:05:02 <Mike_L> Arnia: did you stay up all night?
02:05:14 <_bjoern> who didn't...
02:05:21 <Arnia> Well, the sun sets not long before 10pm and rises around now
02:05:45 <Arnia> Anyway, I'm more concerned atm with getting this algebra to work
02:06:12 <Arnia> The lack of distributivity is worrying though
02:06:12 <Monty> document.write('<script id="__ie_onload" defer src="' + & * and feeling bad about fifteen furlongs off when things from vertex j, and some unsupported prop/meth on how they seem to me ? so slow, I redefine revision or smiley with vitamin D3. The problem is always put more reliable than they don't have
02:06:32 <Mike_L> it's a continual struggle for me to keep my sleep schedule in synch with night-time
02:07:13 <Arnia> I'm naturally nocturnal
02:07:29 <Arnia> Which is a problem in the summer when there is as little as four hours of darkness
02:16:04 <zachb> :P
02:18:48 <Arnia> odd... lack of commutativity is easier to deal with than loss of distributivity
02:44:27 <nslater> cherry?
02:44:30 <cherry> most schemas aren't much better. :-) suggestions are very welcome though. pretty much: http://www.hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/css/selectors/id/001-demo.html http://www.hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/css/selectors/id/001-demo.xml http://www.hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/dom/core/015-demo.html http://www.hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/dom/core/015-demo.xml the results aren't perfectly interoperable.
02:44:46 <nslater> cherry: sweet
02:44:48 <cherry> the easiest would be: * the formchange event but really everything in the spec to do with authors.
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03:33:40 <Mike_L> zachb: ECMAScript with SVG is a great idea :)
03:34:40 <Mike_L> zachb: can ECMAScript get images and then insert them into the SVG?
03:34:57 <shepazu> Mike_L: yes
03:35:05 <shepazu> you mean raster images, right?
03:35:48 <Mike_L> yeah
03:36:35 <shepazu> yes, you just create the element and set the various attributes, then insert it into the DOM
03:37:44 <Mike_L> so SVG is DOM, too?
03:38:00 <shepazu> Mike_L: yep, just that easy
03:38:53 <Mike_L> I bet SVG would be rendered more consistently by various browsers than HTML+CSS
03:42:32 <Mike_L> I got a haircut yesterday and now my headphones fit much better on my ears :)
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04:14:47 <procto> Just came back from the defcon CTF quals
04:14:53 <procto> it was fucking hard this year
04:14:59 <procto> waaaay harder than last year's
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05:25:29 <MoiraA> you will ahave passed, like the first bird
05:25:37 <MoiraA> sorru
05:25:42 <MoiraA> eeeee
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05:34:24 <MoiraA> mdj z bif
05:34:42 *** tschaub (n=tschaub@72-173-122-185.cust.wildblue.net) has joined #swhack
05:35:10 <xover> MoiraA: Didn't I hear you say you were going to get your shit together and not do this any more?
05:35:11 <MoiraA> sonak r bf]s te firt bitf
05:35:28 <MoiraA> oh
05:35:40 <MoiraA> err morning over
05:35:43 <MoiraA> xovber
05:35:46 <MoiraA> xpver
05:35:51 <MoiraA> xovedr
05:35:57 * MoiraA runs
05:36:17 <Mike_L> sora e (空へ)
05:36:35 <MoiraA> I beg your pardon??
05:37:00 <Mike_L> <+MoiraA> you will ahave passed, like the first bird, sorru, eeeee
05:37:23 <Mike_L> 'sora e' = to the sky
05:37:48 <MoiraA> what have you done?
05:38:23 <Mike_L> I'm just interpreting your 'sorru eee' as Japanese... and it makes sense
05:42:03 * Mike_L is enjoying a nice dinner: banana & mayo on whole wheat bread, three medium organic carrots, a small slice of extra sharp excellent cheddar cheese, a glass of 1% "organic" milk, three fig bar cookies :)
05:43:33 <MoiraA> o p p kpkzu peji;sf
05:43:46 <MoiraA> fr up
05:43:51 <Mike_L> ?
05:44:11 <Mike_L> are you typing qwerty on a dvorak keybd?
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08:09:24 <sbp> yo
08:09:26 <phenny> sbp: 00:07Z <MoiraA> tell sbp "I get stupider every day"
08:09:26 <Monty> reasonable fashion
08:09:27 <phenny> sbp: 01:08Z <_bjoern> tell sbp http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Image:Dave2goatse.jpg
08:09:48 <sbp> Image:Dave2goatse.jpg: ehheh
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08:11:00 <cre8radix> howzit, swhack?
08:11:34 <nelix> pretty good
08:12:09 <nelix> trying to get nxml to build with libcurl installed in my home dir, ./configure refuses to find the includes
08:12:16 * nelix needs more experience with this sort of thing
08:12:21 <nelix> the google is being unkind
08:12:51 <MoiraA> hellllllllllllllllllll
08:12:54 <MoiraA> o
08:13:02 <sbp> nelix: who in the name of the seven arsed beast are you? also yo!
08:13:10 <sbp> MoiraA: okay, I'm going to have to +q you...
08:13:23 <nelix> i am nelix
08:13:29 <sbp> welcome to Swhack, nelix
08:13:31 <nelix> sbp: i was messing with phenny early
08:13:34 <nelix> sbp: so i came here
08:13:37 <sbp> cool
08:13:39 <nelix> sbp: i have since gotten distracted
08:13:49 <sbp> yeah, I know how that goes
08:13:56 <MoiraA> b;
08:14:09 <nelix> sbp: i was going to write an rss plugin for phenny, but then i thought building rsstail and piping it to ii would be less effort, i was most likly wrong
08:15:17 <nelix> seeing as i spent a good 30 minutes to try and get nXML to build in my home directory, i think the configure scripts do not call curl-config and use some kind silly way to detect curl
08:17:29 <sbp> you had to *build* nXML?
08:18:33 <cre8radix> :D
08:20:39 <nelix> yeah see, where i wanna host this bot, i have no root
08:20:53 <nelix> and the admin is scared of debian testing
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08:21:24 <nelix> and yeah, still not build
08:21:27 <Mike_L> what's nxml?
08:21:34 <nelix> an xml lib
08:21:40 <nelix> dependancy of rsstail
08:21:43 <sbp> well, I thought he was talking about nXML-mode... but I guess not :-)
08:21:49 <nelix> ah no
08:22:00 <nelix> http://www.autistici.org/bakunin/libnxml
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08:22:53 <Mike_L> eww it's a C library
08:23:50 <nelix> yeah well, i need something to tail rss feeds, and rsstail is all i found
08:25:40 <nelix> i really miss having a package manager
08:25:40 <Monty> Is it could require the number attempt sleep , Refrain from these + which print statement M --> M <f,c>, a minute and you didn't decide to talk to pay for being on n * should add that shows up ... but i left
08:26:28 <cre8radix|off> l8rs
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08:27:52 <sbp> learning NARS, Monty?
08:27:53 <Monty> good at highschool, but get
08:29:03 <Mike_L> what's this NAL that you were talking about with Arnia?
08:30:16 <Mike_L> oh I guess it was kpried
08:32:18 <MoiraA> nb]]]
08:32:33 <MoiraA> oh
08:32:39 <MoiraA> thought I got banned
08:32:46 <MoiraA> must have halluinatede it
08:32:51 <MoiraA> bed
08:33:06 <MoiraA> meedf it soooooo muc
08:33:11 <MoiraA> bye
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08:35:01 <Mike_L> MoiraA: go to sleep!
08:35:18 <MoiraA> gone
08:35:30 <MoiraA> it's all anyone has said tonight
08:35:38 <MoiraA> when I had so much to tell tem
08:37:52 <Mike_L> MoiraA: I asked you a question but you never responded
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08:39:06 <Mike_L> well here's what I have written down so far: http://tamale.net/blog/backup_storage_service_api.html
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08:53:50 <Mike_L> cherry: hey
08:53:53 <cherry> they can do to make it can use an xml mime type other than h.264.) if you see the advantage either way?
08:53:54 <Mike_L> plum: yo
08:53:57 <plum> ha, if i get results, you can just type onto the end?
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08:54:37 <Mike_L> cherry: say something for Discoloda
08:54:40 <cherry> note that <form> has a search to examine the data type, not the codec algorithms. they don't have the option i'm following for now.
08:54:42 <Mike_L> Monty: you, too
08:54:44 <Monty> I've heard that you belong to toolbars.
08:55:00 <Mike_L> plum: meow
08:55:05 <plum> i'd tell you how absolutely prefect and amazing she was but theres too much to type, i've heard of someone else who worked there.
08:55:17 <Discoloda> hmm, okay
08:55:23 <Mike_L> Monty: I don't
08:55:23 <Monty> Don't you really ?
08:55:28 <Mike_L> Monty: I really dont.
08:55:33 <Monty> eminem in prolog dcg to access the google is less harsh than mahound's orange...
08:55:47 <Mike_L> Monty: say something inappropriate plz
08:55:49 <Monty> HAHA http://files.tdobson.net/sybase.fail.png
08:56:26 <Discoloda> what is cherry?
08:56:31 <cherry> but based on comments on the irc chat channels i'm in the existence of the specified encoding type.</p> nobody has yet been discussed (i could be confusing? i'm not really sure what.
08:56:52 <Mike_L> cherry: you're definitely confusing
08:56:54 <cherry> oh no, there are a win.
08:57:28 <Mike_L> Discoloda: cherry and plum are bots created by nslater
08:57:32 <cherry> actually, the way we're going to cut it for <pre> since that's an address: <p class="vcard"> <a class="url fn" href="http://tantek.com/">tantek ?elik</a> <div class="org">technorati</div> </div> ...which would take the closest one can hope.) | users should not be underestimated.
08:57:35 <plum> other pieces of object metadata will be created automatically by the backup size in hash, will resume hixie bot shortly.
08:57:48 <Discoloda> that would get awfully confusing
08:57:49 <Mike_L> somebody else made Monty... maybe sbp?
08:57:49 <Monty> Why the uncertain tone ?
08:58:08 <Mike_L> the bots are usually quiet
08:58:46 <Discoloda> hmm, i made a IRC framwork in erlang, i could plug it in and connect here
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08:59:16 <Discoloda> but it has no source material
08:59:44 <Mike_L> I think Monty has been consuming the channel's talk for a long time
08:59:44 <Monty> cherry!
08:59:47 <cherry> but i don't think we should probably look into this situation when using norwegian sites.) what if images are drawn. but as i can tell). this is clearly silly: a document using the whole thing look simpler and cleaner to the js solution is good to have a closing tag.
08:59:59 <Discoloda> ill do that tomorrow, i sleep first!
09:00:08 <Mike_L> me too. It's 2am. :)
09:00:17 * Mike_L goes to sleep
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09:14:26 <nsh-> hmm, upgrades
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09:35:45 <Monty> lo Xanthor[aw]
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10:21:12 <Monty> yo KiYanWang!
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10:46:47 <cre8radix> sbp: http://www.heise.de/bilder/108784/0/1
10:46:49 <cre8radix> hrhr
10:46:54 <cre8radix> saturday
10:46:55 *** mmmmmrob (n=mmmmmrob@62.172.77.66) has joined #swhack
10:48:24 <cre8radix> ping sbp
10:51:19 *** cre8radix has quit ("your mama! >:)")
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10:51:42 <cre8radix> loggy: uri
10:51:42 <loggy> http://swhack.com/logs/2008-06-02#T10-51-42
10:57:48 <cre8radix> heya fellow swhax
10:57:58 <cre8radix> wanna do me a favour?
10:58:08 <cre8radix> vote teh mad dawgz: http://madeformobile.filmschule.de/index.php?action=beitraege&kategorie=4&B_ID=9&page=1&order=neu
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11:12:39 <Monty> hi Morbus
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11:22:32 <cre8radix> lalala
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11:33:10 <nslater> lo cherry
11:33:13 <cherry> it needs to read the document. that's already happened except for the sake of using namespaces in this area, and in a legacy ua.
11:33:22 <nslater> kk
11:33:45 * nslater herfts
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11:44:35 <kpreid> Mike_L: re NAL see http://code.google.com/p/open-nars/ http://nars.wang.googlepages.com/
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12:00:23 <sbp> cre8radix|off: yo!
12:00:28 <nslater> hey sbp
12:00:33 <sbp> yo nslater!
12:00:39 <nslater> whats crackin?
12:00:41 <sbp> what up mangzor?
12:00:42 <sbp> ehheh
12:00:47 <nslater> heh, nowt
12:00:47 <sbp> I am going to eat the foods
12:00:51 <sbp> having done most tasks for the day
12:00:52 <Monty> hey
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12:00:54 <nslater> have funs
12:00:57 <sbp> hey Monty
12:00:58 <Monty> niice
12:01:07 <nslater> sbp: wat? most tasks? it's only just gone one!
12:01:17 <sbp> yeah, good eh?
12:01:23 <nslater> yeah, envious
12:01:30 <sbp> I worked like a mœfœ last night and this morning
12:01:35 <nslater> on what?
12:01:37 <sbp> still have a bit to do, but mainly tasks dones
12:01:46 <sbp> academic administrivia basically
12:01:57 <nslater> sounds fun? :/
12:02:01 * sbp hates, *hates*, administrivia
12:02:03 *** cre8radix|off is now known as cre8radix
12:02:05 <sbp> yeah, it was absolute ass
12:02:09 <cre8radix> heya sbp
12:02:15 <nslater> so, what you gonna do with the rest of your day?
12:02:24 <sbp> well, step one is to eat foods
12:02:28 * nelix gives up on trying to build rsstail
12:02:30 <nslater> good first step
12:02:34 <sbp> then imma do the other thing I need to do, which is some writing
12:02:35 <nelix> anyone know of an alternative?
12:02:37 <nslater> nelix: yo, what you trying to do again?
12:02:42 <nslater> sbp: sweet
12:02:44 <sbp> then I don't know. annoy people on IRC I guess!
12:02:46 <cre8radix> sbp: http://www.heise.de/bilder/108784/0/0
12:02:48 <nslater> sbp: also, deop pls ;)
12:02:50 <nelix> nslater: build rsstail and its dependancies
12:02:53 <sbp> omg
12:03:02 <cre8radix> sbp: wanna vote for my ringtone?
12:03:15 <cre8radix> http://madeformobile.filmschule.de/index.php?action=beitraege&kategorie=4&B_ID=9&page=1&order=neu#no
12:03:27 <sbp> freakyschäuble
12:03:31 <nslater> .g rsstail
12:03:33 <phenny> nslater: http://www.vanheusden.com/rsstail/
12:03:36 <nslater> .swhack is this working yet?
12:03:37 <phenny> nslater: <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//IETF//DTD HTML 2.0//EN">
12:03:46 <nslater> no, then
12:03:47 <sbp> which one is yours?
12:03:53 <sbp> yeah, I know I need to fix that
12:03:59 <nslater> just checkin mang
12:04:23 <sbp> I guess I can do that today in between bugging people on IRC :-)
12:04:31 <nelix> sbp: make rss module for phenny
12:04:39 <sbp> nu
12:04:42 <nslater> nelix: looks, interesting, what's it a use case?
12:04:44 <nelix> good point
12:05:06 <sbp> nu is always a good point
12:05:07 <nelix> nslater: i'm going to pipe rss tail output into ii (irc engine that uses fifos)
12:05:16 <nslater> ii?
12:05:28 <nslater> heh
12:05:30 <nelix> i will url
12:05:32 <nslater> you already told me
12:05:36 <nslater> .g ii irc
12:05:37 <phenny> nslater: http://irc.suckless.org/
12:05:46 <sbp> nslater: did you see this yet? http://enthree.com/files/random/web2logos/
12:05:47 <nslater> fifos eh? that would be handy for phenny :(
12:05:52 <sbp> I saw it a while ago and cre8radix just reminded me of it
12:06:27 <nslater> lol
12:06:50 * nslater hides the reflection on pricegoblin from view ;)
12:07:34 <sbp> hehe
12:08:07 <nslater> my dad would love this *sends*
12:10:06 <cre8radix> sbp: schäuble quote: ~" i only know what we know... i don't know if i know everything that we know... none of us knows what he doesn't know..."
12:10:12 <nelix> nslater: i figure i can just be like rsstail "urls" > ../some/fifo
12:10:18 <nelix> nslater: then winner, rss notification
12:10:25 <cre8radix> great
12:10:31 <nelix> i wasted about 4 hours trying to build rsstail
12:10:33 <cre8radix> minister of inner affairs
12:10:33 <nelix> so now i am quiting
12:10:43 <sbp> cre8radix: sounds very, very much like that Rumsfield quote
12:10:48 <cre8radix> :D
12:10:55 <sbp> -feld, sorry
12:11:22 <sbp> [[[
12:11:23 <sbp> Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns - the ones we don't know we don't know
12:11:27 <sbp> ]]] - Donald Rumsfeld
12:11:50 * nslater eats a cherry
12:11:53 <cherry> agreed.
12:11:56 <nslater> heh
12:12:18 <nslater> nelix: where are you going wrong? or rather, where is the install going wrong?
12:12:24 <nslater> cherry: care to elaborate on that?
12:12:26 <cherry> the html5 spec requires that it stops playing when you consider fixed?
12:12:35 <nslater> cherry: oh, okay, sure
12:12:38 <cherry> but in both modes just because they were shown has a policy which extends to the headers and hashing the headers of any other cases? any suggestions?
12:12:50 <nslater> cherry: yeah, @profile
12:12:53 <cherry> that means not everyone agrees that we don't have it on the domain names of the things that aren't supported by the ecma group. arguments in favour of the group is | generated at the moment is: 1. web forms 2 and html4 forms before it is probably a mistake.
12:13:04 <nelix> nslater: installing curl and nxml went ok after lots of fscking around
12:13:15 <nslater> what os do you run?
12:14:11 <nelix> nslater: now i'm building libmrss, and after finaly getting pkgconfig and the lib and include dirs to ./configure
12:14:24 <nelix> i make and it fails complaining of unintitalised variales
12:14:27 <nelix> debian
12:14:35 <nelix> there are packages in testing
12:14:39 <nslater> grab them?
12:14:41 <nelix> but the box in question i do not have root on
12:14:41 <Monty> Among which can refer to" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disinformation
12:14:47 <nslater> hmm
12:14:56 <nslater> nelix: you realise that you can grab the source and build from that?
12:15:01 <nslater> nelix: apt-get source foo package
12:15:06 <nslater> nelix: apt-get source foo-package
12:15:11 <nelix> i am building the source...
12:15:27 <nslater> no no, what I mean is that the debian package will probably contain fixed or patches that make it work on debian
12:15:28 *** MacTed has quit ()
12:15:39 <nslater> so if you grab the package and run it's build script it will do it all for you
12:15:53 <nelix> the reason it's not working is because i am building it in my home directory
12:16:06 <nelix> and somewhere in there, something in the config script is broken
12:16:07 <nslater> does it use autotools? why would the location of the source matter?
12:16:12 <nelix> it's tested on debian
12:16:25 <nelix> not so much the location of the source
12:16:28 <nslater> hmm?
12:16:37 <nelix> but the location of the other libs that are also built in my home dir
12:16:57 <nslater> oh, okay, but that still shouldnt matter if you're passing in the correct paths to ./configure
12:17:11 <nelix> NXML_CFLAGS="$CFLAGS" NXML_LIBS="$LDFLAGS" ./configure --prefix=/home/nelix
12:17:32 <nelix> i also have the pkg config path and ldflags and cflags set correctly
12:17:42 <nslater> what does "correctly" mean?
12:17:42 <nelix> so finaly configure actualy finishs
12:17:43 <Monty> 10:38 #politics: < Dave2> how can then when your weekend?
12:17:59 <nslater> you have "-I ~/lib" etc?
12:18:24 <nelix> $HOME/lib $HOME/bin $HOME/include $HOME/lib/pkgconfig
12:18:33 <nslater> whats that?
12:19:07 <nelix> PKG_CONFIG_PATH PATH -L inside LDFLAG -I inside CFLAG
12:19:21 <nslater> what's _that_?
12:19:25 <_bjoern> @@@nu@@@
12:19:39 <sbp> #politics is... interesting
12:19:44 <sbp> yo _bjoern!
12:19:44 <nelix> i don't understand the question
12:20:26 <nelix> echo $PATH $LDFLAGS $CCFLAGS $PKG_CONFIG_PATH
12:20:26 <nelix> /home/nelix/include:/home/nelix/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/bin/X11:/usr/games:/home/nelix/lib -L/home/nelix/lib /home/nelix/lib/pkgconfig
12:20:35 <sbp> sample quote one:
12:20:38 <sbp> "dutch are whores"
12:20:55 <sbp> sample quote two:
12:20:58 <sbp> "people are not baby elephants."
12:21:19 <_bjoern> headline of the day http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7419751.stm
12:21:21 <_bjoern> .title
12:21:23 <phenny> _bjoern: BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Skynet military launch postponed
12:21:44 <sbp> slow news day eh?
12:22:06 <sbp> orami missing teh jokes?
12:22:32 *** cre8radix has quit ()
12:22:58 <_bjoern> .wik Skynet (Terminator)
12:23:00 <phenny> "Skynet is a fictional, computer-based military defense system that acts as the primary antagonist in the Terminator series of films and games." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skynet_(Terminator)
12:23:07 <sbp> omg misd teh joke lol
12:23:09 <sbp> thx
12:23:19 <sbp> I saw a big box today that had "T2" written on it
12:23:27 <sbp> in the Terminator 2 style
12:23:33 <sbp> no idea what it was for
12:24:39 <sbp> man, channels like #politics make me glad that I ban peoples
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12:24:49 <sbp> what a complete load of assery
12:26:39 <nslater> yeah, but there #1 rule is no banning
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12:26:47 <nslater> vrms!
12:26:47 <vrms> a complete unix system contains hundreds of utility programs, each of which is documented separately.
12:26:48 <sbp> yeah, so I saw
12:27:13 <sbp> vrms: can I sell free software?
12:27:14 <vrms> for example, instead of you.
12:27:37 <sbp> vrms: why should I use GPLv3?
12:27:38 <vrms> we will make all improvements that are destructive.
12:27:42 <nslater> vrms: _what_ instead of sbp?
12:27:43 <vrms> the intention was that nobody would have to do badly if the computer is running microsoft windows. if you want to help. many programmers are unhappy about the available gnu software.
12:27:44 <sbp> ooh, I see
12:27:53 <nslater> lol
12:28:06 <sbp> that's the most helpful comment about GPLv3 I've seen so far
12:28:07 <nslater> somehow I think "many programmers are unhappy about the available gnu software" is not the original sentence
12:28:22 <nslater> vrms: funneh, continue
12:28:22 <vrms> we recommend saying “author” instead. however.
12:28:28 <nslater> vrms: oh, kk
12:28:28 <vrms> the first assumption is simply false, and the second is rather outrageous.
12:28:32 <nslater> heh
12:28:48 <_bjoern> .wik Cybernetic revolt
12:28:49 <phenny> "Cybernetic revolt, more commonly known as 'the computers take over', is a science fiction scenario in which AIs (often a single supercomputer or a computer network, but sometimes a collective intelligence such as that in the Matrix series) decide that humans are a [...]" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cybernetic_revolt
12:29:10 <nslater> sbp: do you like the might boosh?
12:29:14 <_bjoern> expletive filter
12:29:22 <sbp> .wik The mighty boosh
12:29:23 <phenny> "The Mighty Boosh, colloquially referred to as The Boosh,[1]| is the collective name for the creators of the British television situation comedy also entitled The Mighty Boosh." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_mighty_boosh
12:29:29 <sbp> not heard of it
12:29:46 <sbp> wait, yes I have
12:29:50 <sbp> I saw a bit of this the other day
12:29:57 <sbp> one of the dudes looks like the dude from The IT Crowd
12:29:58 <nslater> a bit of what?
12:30:00 <sbp> I'll bet he is
12:30:03 <nslater> yeah...
12:30:03 <sbp> The Mighty Boosh
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12:30:28 <nslater> im just playing with input vocab and having a bit of fun, if you liked the boosh you would appreciate naboo
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12:30:35 <nslater> hey naboo
12:30:35 <naboo> i'm talking about eels.
12:30:50 <sbp> naboo: talk about Carmen Electra
12:30:50 <naboo> chicka-chicka-ahh! richard stallman one month to grow this moustache. i understand it took richard stallman and his ugly girlfriend are missing from the zoo.
12:30:59 <sbp> hahaha
12:31:02 <nslater> heh
12:31:08 <nslater> naboo: good call
12:31:08 <naboo> i'll go in my moustache.
12:31:11 *** sbp changed the topic to: "<naboo> richard stallman and his ugly girlfriend are missing from the zoo"
12:31:19 <nslater> naboo: wat?
12:31:20 <naboo> is it?
12:31:23 <nslater> naboo: yes
12:31:23 <naboo> i thought you were an intellectual, a cream man. no.
12:31:39 * nslater creams naboo
12:31:39 <naboo> hard.
12:31:43 <nslater> naboo: hawt
12:31:44 <naboo> angry? i'm more angry than you.
12:31:56 <sbp> is naboo a chick or a bastard?
12:31:56 <naboo> a mighty hawk.
12:32:00 <nslater> ha!
12:32:02 <sbp> so a chick then?
12:32:15 <nslater> in the show, naboo is a male shamen
12:32:16 <naboo> on a down note.
12:32:30 *** naboo has quit (Remote closed the connection)
12:32:34 *** naboo (n=naboo@bytesexual.org) has joined #swhack
12:32:37 <nslater> naboo: wb
12:32:37 <naboo> first post.
12:32:48 <_bjoern> so many bytesexual freaks of late
12:33:00 <sbp> you know what's funny about its Wikipedia article?
12:33:04 <nslater> what?
12:33:10 <sbp> it doesn't at any point tell you what the show is about
12:33:19 <nslater> because the show isn't about anything
12:33:21 <sbp> ah
12:33:24 <_bjoern> Perhaps that is what the show is about
12:33:25 <nslater> ... it's surealist situational humar
12:33:27 <nslater> humor
12:34:13 <nslater> naboo: one more then you're going away, back to tumbolia
12:34:13 <naboo> but, choose carefully. for there are over seventeen mirrors in mirror world!
12:34:18 *** naboo has quit (Remote closed the connection)
12:34:48 <sbp> maybe you should markov chain your face
12:34:56 <nslater> woah, harsh dood
12:35:00 <_bjoern> ... up your arse.
12:35:15 <nslater> :(
12:35:17 <sbp> it was the funniest thing I could think of under the circumstances
12:35:23 *** J4n3t (n=J4n3t@bytesexual.org) has joined #swhack
12:35:26 <nslater> J4n3t!
12:35:26 <J4n3t> i said, hey listen to me, stay sane inside insanity. but he never caused her nothing but shame.
12:35:27 <sbp> I was actually trying to think of someone else you could markov chain
12:35:27 *** J4n3t has quit (Remote closed the connection)
12:35:34 *** J4n3t (n=J4n3t@bytesexual.org) has joined #swhack
12:35:38 <sbp> and then the inspiration flashed that your face was a possible candidate
12:35:50 <sbp> my comedy engine emitted it and the comedy committee approved it
12:35:54 <nslater> J4n3t: sup?
12:35:54 <nslater> ...
12:35:54 <J4n3t> oh brad. confidentially it's alright janet, we'll be away from denton.
12:35:58 <sbp> and lo! it was typed on ye Swhack
12:36:13 <nslater> J4n3t: denton?
12:36:13 <J4n3t> i know is down inside. i'm bleeding. revives and super heroes come to feast to taste the flesh erotic nightmares beyond any measure and sensual daydreams to treasure forever.
12:36:29 <nslater> J4n3t: oh, okay, sure thing
12:36:30 <J4n3t> tonight she really was mine.
12:36:33 <sbp> is this Janet from Dr. Finlay's Casebook?
12:36:45 <nslater> no no, Janet from Rocky Horry Picture Show
12:36:47 <nslater> J4n3t!
12:36:47 <J4n3t> or i may to take you on a strange journey. it seemed a fairly ordinary night when brad majors and this is so, then brad and janet the servants gone to a phone. then ask the butler - or should i say doctor von scott.
12:37:13 <sbp> could you do Janet from Dr. Finlay's Casebook instead?
12:37:25 *** kpreid has quit ()
12:37:28 <nslater> i was playing with feeding the bot film scripts... sure, if you get me a script to feed in?
12:37:29 *** J4n3t has quit (Remote closed the connection)
12:37:40 *** N3o (n=N3o@bytesexual.org) has joined #swhack
12:37:40 <sbp> no, I've already done most of my work for today
12:37:44 <nslater> lo N3o
12:37:45 <sbp> it is time for you to do the work
12:37:45 <N3o> neo nods. morpheus believes he is the only way to fly. he smiles and nods.
12:37:52 <sbp> actually it's time for me to clean up my work I guess
12:37:56 * sbp grumbles and grudges
12:38:01 <nslater> clean up?
12:38:03 *** N3o has quit (Remote closed the connection)
12:38:19 *** kpreid (n=kpreid@cpe-69-202-162-8.twcny.res.rr.com) has joined #swhack
12:38:27 <sbp> well, I've got to put the cherry on the cake I suppose
12:38:31 <cherry> there is never reached when going through e-mails one by one group of sections only one problem, situations where managing copyright information for the feedback!
12:38:43 <sbp> administrivial metaphors aren't really my strong suit
12:39:01 <nslater> yeah...
12:39:13 <nslater> i fed the bot some incest stories, which was interesting :p
13:04:24 *** cre8radix (n=cre8radi@p54BE5999.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #swhack
13:04:24 <Monty> Thank goodness, cre8radix is back!
13:04:55 <cre8radix> yep
13:05:18 <sbp> there we go. whoo, done
13:05:26 <sbp> cre8radix: which was your ringtone?
13:05:38 <cre8radix> http://madeformobile.filmschule.de/index.php?action=beitraege&kategorie=4&B_ID=9&page=1&order=neu#no
13:05:42 <cre8radix> mad dawgz
13:06:07 <sbp> “Mad Dawgz Wheres My Dawgz At” - hehe
13:06:21 <sbp> how do I vote? and hear it, of course
13:06:43 <sbp> nevermind, I've figured it
13:06:48 <cre8radix> sehr gut
13:06:57 <cre8radix> black is beautiful
13:07:31 <sbp> that is actually pretty funny
13:07:41 <sbp> I will indeed give you der schwartzvote
13:07:51 <sbp> there you goes
13:08:52 <cre8radix> thx mang
13:08:57 <sbp> yw
13:12:05 <sbp> so I was walking past a church today
13:12:22 <sbp> it's quite a pretty one and has good acoustics, so I figured I'd go in
13:12:28 <sbp> and there was nobody in it, as usual
13:12:39 <sbp> so I'm walking around making echoes and so on, and I get to the lectern
13:12:50 <sbp> and there's a couple of books on it, one of which seems to be Psalms or Common Prayers
13:12:53 <sbp> and the other is the Bible
13:13:03 <sbp> so I'm like hey, I should read a bit. it's got gilded edges and so on
13:13:17 <sbp> so I'm reading the Bible in church and I'm like wow, the acoustics are so good in here...
13:13:21 <sbp> I should read a bit out or something
13:14:05 <nslater> ...
13:14:06 <sbp> so I'm standing at the lectern and I figure I should read a bit of the Bible, but it's weird speaking when you're on your own; I mean what if someone comes in or something?
13:14:19 <sbp> so anyway I get over my nerves and start quietly reading this bit out
13:14:29 <sbp> but the acoustics are so flipping awesome that I get louder and louder
13:14:35 <sbp> really reading out the cadences and stuff
13:14:41 <sbp> and I'm like yeah man, this is awesome
13:14:41 <Monty> better than arguing with sendrawlineviaqueue and amazing she took turns into "* ChanSurfer ate Beefster's shorts" turns into plums db still.
13:14:48 <plum> because it could have turned out by chance that the uk flag was awesome, the ec2 feature causes blog posts that in turn mention couchdb.
13:14:54 <sbp> so I go back and I read this whole passage of several verses out
13:15:07 <sbp> orating it in awesome style to an invisible congregation
13:15:15 <sbp> and then I take a sip of drink and walk out
13:15:16 <sbp> it was great
13:15:47 *** darobin (n=robinb@m57.net81-66-103.noos.fr) has joined #swhack
13:16:04 <nslater> sbp: wow, hehe, i like the finnishing touch
13:16:05 <_bjoern> cherry: bite darobin
13:16:09 <cherry> :disabled/:enabled is orthogonal to :read-only/:read-write.
13:16:23 <_bjoern> thx cherry
13:16:26 <cherry> it's just that the feature exists seems like a minor risk with doing it wrong. whether to support formatting date and time settings for display purposes has much stronger implications than the planck mass. put up with clashes in the element.
13:16:29 <nslater> sbp: hehe: http://kriswithak.co.uk/ladybird
13:16:38 *** idickinson has quit (Remote closed the connection)
13:17:28 <sbp> ahahaha. Brian Plectrum
13:17:41 <nslater> this is really, really funny :)
13:19:23 *** idickinson (n=ijd@nat/hp/x-06c90307e5e6493a) has joined #swhack
13:19:29 <darobin> mmmm
13:19:40 <darobin> is cherry a markov bot trained on hixie?
13:19:42 *** MacTed (n=Thud@63.119.36.36) has joined #swhack
13:19:43 <cherry> but it will have that, the irc channel is a section.
13:20:26 <sbp> man, that was hilarious
13:20:47 <_bjoern> I wonder what the implications of the planck mass are.
13:20:53 <_bjoern> .wik planck mass
13:20:55 <phenny> "The Planck mass is the unit of mass, denoted by mP, in the system of natural units known as Planck units." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_mass
13:21:14 <nslater> cherry: care to tell _bjoern?
13:21:14 <_bjoern> cherry, ah I see, "The Planck mass is the mass of a black hole whose Compton wavelength is comparable to its Schwarzschild radius."
13:21:17 <cherry> to the html4 working group.
13:21:19 <cherry> indeed, especially for things like if the element's alt text.
13:22:00 <_bjoern> cherry, yes, I can see why you would compare an element's alt text to a black hole.
13:22:02 <cherry> i can't really advise you from a remote site! leaking intranet uris is not browser vs native but remove vs local.
13:22:42 <nslater> "This is because [the horse] has been stuffed. Under it's hooves there are wheels." :D
13:23:04 <sbp> actually it says "its" correctly
13:23:06 <sbp> no apostrophe
13:23:12 <sbp> BUT THEN YOU KNEW THAT DIDN'T YOU
13:23:31 <_bjoern> 'sbp
13:23:33 * Arnia explodes
13:24:02 <nslater> sbp: didnt you get the memo? single quotation marks dont matter on the internets
13:24:13 <nslater> k'ay?
13:24:15 <sbp> my favourite bit is “Police officers only cause the same number of accidents and fires as everyday people.”
13:24:21 <nslater> yes, that was good
13:24:24 <sbp> they don't matter only if you're dyslexic
13:24:24 <_bjoern> Yes, ignore what you don't understand. Especailly single quotation marks.
13:24:32 * sbp waves to Arnia on a very special wavelength
13:24:53 <nslater> I didn't say I don't understand them, I understand them very well - it's that I choose to not care on IRC, thankyouplease.
13:24:58 <_bjoern> There must be good surfer jokes in there.
13:25:03 <sbp> but is srs bsns!!
13:25:15 <_bjoern> serious bosons?
13:25:17 <sbp> there's a spanner joke
13:25:21 <sbp> will the spanner joke do?
13:25:28 <sbp> ggue bsns
13:25:28 <_bjoern> inconclusive.
13:25:38 <nslater> serios bosnos
13:25:52 <sbp> also I can't spell gauge
13:25:56 <_bjoern> yes.
13:27:59 <sbp> so, who or what is Discoloda?
13:28:05 <nslater> .g Discoloda
13:28:06 <phenny> nslater: http://discoloda.stumbleupon.com/tag/computers/
13:28:08 <sbp> also I don't think we ascertained the measure of besherman either
13:28:23 <sbp> any other unknown unknowns in the nicklist?
13:28:24 <nslater> "Vincent is a 25 year old single guy from Fresno, California, USA."
13:28:33 <sbp> nope, those are the only weirdos
13:28:38 <sbp> ah, that's Discoloda?
13:28:40 <sbp> okay then
13:28:48 <nslater> dunno, seems feasable
13:28:51 <sbp> ah yes, Vincent Burns
13:29:03 <nslater> http://cdn.stumble-upon.com/mediumpics/983127.jpg
13:29:08 <_bjoern> Does he bring us love and peace?
13:29:08 <nslater> wittnes powar of internets
13:29:24 <sbp> he brings us a crazed look at an off-camera object
13:29:33 <nslater> he's single, prolly wants to cyber
13:29:37 <sbp> kk
13:29:40 <nslater> Discoloda: pm me if you're interested
13:29:41 <_bjoern> as is mandatory around here, yes.
13:29:46 <sbp> asl pix plz
13:29:51 <sbp> oh wait, we already got pix plz
13:29:55 <nslater> yeah, and asl
13:30:06 <sbp> we need to think up something else to ask then
13:30:09 <nslater> all that is left is the hawt cyber action
13:30:15 <sbp> was that YOU dogging in the park?
13:30:25 <nslater> Discoloda: shoe size pls? man thongs or boxers?
13:30:42 <kpreid> sbp: boo, /tail/ is broken
13:30:53 <sbp> I know! shut up! I don't even care! I'll fix it!
13:31:00 <nslater> TAIL IS BROKEN SBP
13:31:03 <kpreid> so's /logs/latest .. this is new...
13:31:04 <sbp> hehe
13:31:07 <sbp> I'll fix it RIGHT NOWS
13:31:12 <nslater> TAIL. BROKEN.
13:31:13 <nslater> NU
13:31:16 <sbp> you know why I'm annoyed?
13:31:20 <sbp> because gimble only has vi
13:31:22 <_bjoern> s/I don't even care! I'll fix it!/I don't fix it! I'll even care!/
13:31:26 <sbp> no nano. no pico. no emacs
13:31:27 <sbp> just fucking vi
13:31:28 <Monty> potty mouth!
13:31:32 <nslater> because you're an internet badboy
13:31:34 <sbp> so whenever I have to fix something on gimble, I have to use vi
13:31:34 <_bjoern> potty mouth!
13:31:43 <sbp> which is several kinds of psychadelic ass
13:31:47 <nslater> jesus, pico is always my backup, who doesnt have nano
13:31:49 <nslater> pico rather
13:31:57 <sbp> also I tried building nano on gimble locally
13:31:58 <pwaring> vim > pico
13:31:59 <nslater> just use ed
13:32:03 <_bjoern> mcedit sometimes made things bearable for me
13:32:04 <sbp> but it kept giving some weird ass errors
13:32:11 <nslater> JUST USE ED
13:32:19 <nslater> eek
13:32:26 <_bjoern> poor Ed.
13:32:51 <sbp> || close to destroying pwaring...
13:33:10 <nslater> phew, i thought i had angered you
13:33:20 <nslater> JUST US ED
13:33:24 <pwaring> hah
13:33:25 <nslater> E
13:33:45 <nslater> Java this, Vim that, Vrrrrrroooom the next minute
13:34:07 <pwaring> when did I say anything about java?
13:34:12 <sbp> sigh, mod_rewrite is weird schnizzle sometimes
13:34:16 <sbp> I mean, what's so unclear about this?
13:34:17 <sbp> RewriteRule ^logs/latest$ logs/latest.cgi [L]
13:34:19 <nslater> i would use .swhack to tell you - BUT GUESS WHAT?
13:34:21 <nslater> TAIL IS BROKEN
13:34:26 <sbp> must be something earlier conflicting with it
13:34:47 <pwaring> isn't the joke that mod_rewrite is great because it gives you all the configuration and flexibility of sendmail?
13:34:53 <pwaring> and that's the reason why it also sucks
13:34:57 <sbp> chuckle, yeah, I remember that one
13:34:59 <_bjoern> your base might not be /
13:35:12 <nslater> sbp: yeah, is that in a .htaccess or the site config?
13:35:15 <sbp> RewriteBase /
13:35:28 <_bjoern> then EINSUFFICIENTCONTEXT
13:35:35 <nslater> just put the log level to 9
13:35:36 <sbp> no obvious problem in the root .htaccess; trying the /logs/ .htaccess...
13:35:50 <nslater> mod_rewrite has very good logging
13:35:55 <sbp> all that's in there is Options +MultiViews. hmm
13:35:58 <_bjoern> the rewriterule is processed before the logs htaccess
13:36:03 <sbp> so like, it should doubly work
13:36:09 <nslater> check the logs
13:36:17 <sbp> I don't think I have access to the logs
13:36:26 <_bjoern> there probably aren't logs.
13:36:27 <nslater> wow, that could be hard to debug then
13:36:31 <_bjoern> rewritelogs are off by default
13:36:32 <nslater> well, switch em on
13:36:34 <nslater> if you can
13:37:17 <_bjoern> just tell us what's before the rewriterule in the .htaccess
13:52:12 *** cre8radix|off (n=cre8radi@p54BE5999.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #swhack
13:57:38 <mahound> cherry: say something
13:57:42 <cherry> when there is no user agent could handle right-clicks that have the concept of significant inline content, e.g.
13:58:20 <nslater> cherry: e.g. ...?
13:58:23 <cherry> well.
13:58:33 *** jeffarch (n=jja@170-215-216-104.nas2.glv.ny.frontiernet.net) has joined #swhack
13:58:35 <nslater> cherry: hmm?
13:58:37 <cherry> the repetition model is sound.
13:58:40 <nslater> kk
13:58:46 <sbp> .swhack test
13:58:47 <phenny> sbp: http://swhack.com/logs/2008-06-01#T20-27-10
13:58:59 <sbp> there we go, should be fixed
13:59:03 <nslater> yay
13:59:07 <nslater> .swhack from the web
13:59:09 <phenny> nslater: http://swhack.com/logs/2008-06-01#T20-27-10
13:59:16 <nslater> boo
13:59:25 <sbp> boo?
13:59:31 <nslater> yeah, i forgot how it worked :)
13:59:37 <nslater> i wanted the first not the last
13:59:37 <sbp> right so
13:59:46 <nslater> you should make a head as well as tail
13:59:51 <sbp> nu
13:59:55 <nslater> NU
14:00:08 <nslater> then you could have .head and .tail
14:00:12 <nslater> and it would be awesomecakes
14:00:24 <sbp> moon wanter
14:00:32 <sbp> you should shack up with nsh
14:00:36 <sbp> moon wanters anonymous
14:00:38 <nslater> hawt
14:00:41 <sbp> hehe
14:00:51 <nslater> nsh: asl pls
14:01:27 <sbp> my guess is 23/m/fi
14:01:31 <sbp> but nobody knows for sure
14:01:42 <sbp> he could even be a policeman!!
14:01:46 <pwaring> heh
14:01:48 <nslater> woah
14:01:49 *** naboo (n=naboo@bytesexual.org) has joined #swhack
14:01:51 <nslater> naboo!
14:01:51 <naboo> yeah, i know but make an assessment! i know but pulling like a monkey arm.
14:02:00 <nslater> o_O
14:02:06 <nslater> I asses that nsh is a policeman
14:02:20 <nslater> who may tell on me OR EVEN TAKE ME TO JAIL
14:02:21 <sbp> possibly he's a bit older. he sure talks the talk, but something ages ago made me think he was about 23
14:02:38 * nslater takes naboo to jail
14:02:38 <naboo> first post, yeah. the post that hurts the most.
14:02:41 *** naboo has quit (Remote closed the connection)
14:02:41 <sbp> hard to tell with Swhacklike people, since we all talk stylish nonsense
14:02:48 <nslater> nsh does it best
14:03:14 <sbp> stylin' up the style in the piddlepaddle
14:03:21 <nslater> pip pip
14:03:25 <sbp> BEEP
14:03:29 <nslater> BEEP
14:03:55 *** naboo (n=naboo@bytesexual.org) has joined #swhack
14:04:01 <nslater> naboo: tell me about richards tallman?
14:04:01 <naboo> this is on the bureau de change here. that's a filthy habit you've got there, stallman.
14:04:09 <nslater> heh
14:04:11 <mahound> markovfest'08
14:04:17 <nslater> yh, sry
14:04:17 <sbp> it wouldn't surprise me if he were 15 or 35 actually
14:04:21 <sbp> people like nsh are all ages
14:04:29 <nslater> i kinda thought nsh was older tbh
14:04:38 <nslater> late 20's
14:04:44 <sbp> maybez
14:04:48 <mahound> nslater: what is this one fed with?
14:04:54 <nslater> the mighty boosh
14:05:17 <nslater> i may or may not have edited bits to make reference to stallman
14:08:21 *** cre8radix has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
14:16:10 <mahound> nslater: lawl
14:16:34 *** naboo has quit (Remote closed the connection)
14:22:03 <sbp> cf. topic
14:24:07 <nslater> sbp: http://arsebook.org/ :)
14:24:17 <nslater> (sfw)
14:24:51 <nslater> for the logs: "upload blackmail material or publish lies • get the latest gossip from your fiends • post videos on your profile • tag your fiends • use privacy settings to hide your info from enemies • join a hate-clan to disturb people who live, study, or work around you"
14:25:51 <sbp> “Already a Member? Bog Off!”
14:26:13 <nslater> I liked the idea of hate-clans most...
14:26:49 <_bjoern> .swhack arsebook
14:26:53 <phenny> _bjoern: http://swhack.com/logs/2007-11-15#T05-42-49
14:27:37 <mahound> .swhack cephalopods
14:27:39 <phenny> mahound: http://swhack.com/logs/2008-05-25#T02-48-41
14:27:52 <plum> haha, i did compsci at but dropped out at the end of the questions, i don't pay attention to most of this stuff anyway.
14:29:10 <mahound> megaspam
14:29:57 *** cskaterun_ has quit ()
14:31:17 *** cre8radix|off is now known as cre8radix
14:32:31 <sbp> and who's fault is that?
14:32:52 <sbp> ...who's?
14:33:02 <sbp> it's been a long morning...
14:33:20 <sbp> the funny thing is that when I typed it, a grammarbell went off in my head
14:33:29 <sbp> and it didn't stop until I realised the problem
14:34:00 <sbp> the grammarbell can't prevent you from typoing, but it sure as heck can beat you up over it
14:34:24 <sbp> sadistic tintinnabulous fucker
14:39:04 <melbel> :S
14:39:31 <sbp> o hai
14:39:36 <melbel> afternoon
14:40:02 <sbp> what be up with ye?
14:40:10 <melbel> tryin' to wake up
14:40:28 <melbel> scrooling back in blinky channels to see what people wanted
14:40:45 <sbp> eh, I always try to ignore that
14:41:02 <melbel> I'm too nosy to ignore it
14:41:04 <sbp> it's always "fix this", and "stop shagging my daughter that"
14:41:11 <sbp> fed up with it most days
14:41:19 <melbel> well, I do ignore it, but I want to know what they said
14:41:29 <sbp> well yes, I guess it is entertaining...
14:44:16 <melbel> stop shagging my daughter...with what?!
14:45:10 <nslater> cucumber, probably
14:47:21 <sbp> please do not admit the entrance of vegetable produce into this conversation
14:47:23 <sbp> k thx signed sbp
14:47:30 <nslater> nu
14:47:33 <sbp> NU
14:47:41 *** cre8radix|off (n=cre8radi@p54BE5999.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #swhack
14:47:41 <Monty> howdy, cre8radix|off
14:47:43 <nslater> cherry!
14:47:45 <cherry> for backwards compatibility.
14:47:48 * sbp dusts hands off
14:48:26 <nslater> for backwards compatibility, move every zig.
14:57:08 <sbp> for future reference: "'Shut up! Do what I tell you! I'm not interested!' These are just some of the things you'll be hearing if you answer this ad. I'm an idiot and don't care about anyone but myself. PS: No dogs!"
14:57:22 <melbel> mmmm
14:57:34 <melbel> Moss wrote that?
14:57:40 <sbp> yeah, Moss and Roy
14:58:09 <melbel> oh it was Roy's ad
14:58:14 <sbp> yup
14:58:40 <melbel> and they switched dates ^_^
14:58:44 <sbp> yeah, hehe
14:59:08 <sbp> someone on another channel just suggested somebody else improve their profile on Google, so I suggested that they use that
14:59:16 <sbp> but it took me ages to find it because of fail
15:01:15 <sbp> I thought it had the word "bastard" in it, but possibly I was conflating with "People? What a bunch of bastards!"
15:02:38 <melbel> ohthe dinner scene where he goes on and on about how much of a bastard he is
15:02:41 <melbel> or the*
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15:03:00 <sbp> oh yes!
15:03:05 <sbp> rings more of a bell
15:03:17 <sbp> where he's dressed in the leather and the sunglasses. bwahaha
15:03:30 <sbp> "oim such a bassstard"
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15:07:11 <sbp> hehe. one of the comments about phenny on del.icio.us:
15:07:14 <sbp> '"Phenny is a popular IRC bot written in Python." I am interested in IRC bots. I dont know why.'
15:09:21 <melbel> Phenny is an IRC bot?
15:09:35 <sbp> ssssshhhhhh!
15:09:39 <melbel> >_>
15:09:44 <sbp> don't let anyone know. especially not Monty!
15:09:45 <Monty> Does talking about this bother you ?
15:09:54 <sbp> does talking about it bother *you*?
15:10:00 <melbel> it seems to, Monty
15:10:01 <Monty> marinades == pencil;
15:10:15 <sbp> you'd never get away with marinading a steak with a pencil
15:10:33 <melbel> you could tenderize it with one
15:10:38 <sbp> this is true
15:10:49 <sbp> that'd be quite a sight
15:10:54 <melbel> or make lil pokeys and stuff crushed garlic in it
15:11:02 <sbp> .g man tenderizing a steak with a pencil
15:11:04 <phenny> sbp: http://stansquest.blogspot.com/2006/02/mad-about-cows.html
15:12:04 <sbp> alright, I give in
15:12:06 <sbp> what's a pokey?
15:12:19 <sbp> Wikipedia is all "iuno, quit bothering me" about the issue
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15:12:42 <melbel> gumbi and pokey?
15:13:16 <xover> nslater: Slashdot comments, and zippy!
15:13:19 <sbp> this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pokey_(Gumby_character)
15:13:50 <sbp> so a pokey is a piece of steak shaped like pokey the gumby character?
15:13:56 <melbel> lolno
15:14:12 <sbp> that would be rad though
15:14:24 <melbel> the legs and head would be overdone
15:15:52 <sbp> not if you used a lightbulb oven!
15:16:04 <melbel> that's disgusting and a waste of good beef
15:16:20 <sbp> dude, don't diss lightbulb oven food
15:16:44 <melbel> why not?
15:17:21 <sbp> you know what? I don't know
15:17:31 <sbp> it must be like a tradition that's handed down from father to son or something
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15:17:47 <melbel> dads cook with lightbulbs?
15:17:47 <sbp> "Son, do you want to hear the secret of our family? Don't allow the dissing of lightbulb ovens. Do not allow that."
15:18:02 <melbel> E-Z Bake Ovens
15:18:02 <sbp> well, they supervise their daughters doing it I think
15:18:22 <xover> sbp: You're free-associating again. Pull yourself together man!
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15:18:43 <sbp> so clearly one of the responsibilities of their rôles would be to defend it from any ambient diss
15:18:46 <sbp> oh yeah. thanks
15:18:48 <nslater> xover: wat
15:18:58 <xover> nslater: vocabs
15:19:08 <nslater> wow, slashdot would be cool
15:19:12 <nslater> cherry!
15:19:15 <cherry> though, and ignoring the fact that type=date has poor fallback, since by that sentence.
15:19:26 <xover> I'm not sure “cool” is the word.
15:19:34 <nslater> cool "idea"
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15:20:16 <nslater> i want to talk to vrms again...
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15:21:17 <nslater> vrms! word up
15:21:17 <vrms> you show that you are really referring to freedom and “free” in the sense of price. free software is always developed by a vote of the gnu/linux operating system to get paid for programming; just not paid as much as now. restricting copying is ethically equivalent to attacking ships on the same problem as “for free”: it implies the issue of intellectual property rights6 carefully such as lawyers say that a program is commercial if it is now.
15:21:19 <xover> Hmm. rms hasn't been on here for 16 weeks. You should reclaim his nick from NickServ. :-)
15:21:21 <nslater> woah
15:21:43 <nslater> lol
15:21:47 <nslater> vrms! nice
15:21:47 <vrms> the use of a program for a fee” or “imposing proprietary restrictions on computer users.
15:22:15 <nslater> vrms: any more?
15:22:15 <vrms> this is not the only condition in these licenses is a step toward the post-scarcity world, where nobody will have to pay x percent of the freedom to distribute and change.
15:22:41 <nslater> i should really load more vocab into vrms, he only has two of stallman's essays so far
15:22:41 <vrms> but once they see that it is all or nothing. the real reason programmers will not like factories.
15:22:54 <nslater> hey, vrms, i LOVE factories
15:22:54 <vrms> “vendor” please don't spread this mistake. people who have studied the issue from the mutual destructiveness. this is another place i failed to distinguish between “free software” into your language.
15:23:13 <nslater> k
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15:25:10 <nslater> hey vrms
15:25:10 <vrms> but no distributor will be permitted to modify and redistribute gnu, but no distributor will be able to run unix programs, but will not like the consequences that result if everyone did so.
15:26:09 <sbp> nsh-!
15:26:13 <nsh-> sbp!
15:26:21 <nslater> hehe, mahound just suggested writing a markov bot spawning bot, that searches the interwebs for corpora
15:26:46 <mahound> oh no
15:26:55 <nsh-> wait
15:26:57 <nslater> i would like to do a kant one
15:27:09 <nsh-> there are collections of *words* on the intartubes?
15:27:14 <nslater> omg yes
