00:02:07 *** jeffarch_ (n=jja@170-215-220-157.nas1.glv.ny.frontiernet.net) has joined #swhack
00:02:45 *** jeffarch has quit (Nick collision from services.)
00:03:51 *** jeffarch_ is now known as jeffarch
00:12:21 <_bjoern> phenny, tell cre8radix http://www.abendblatt.de/daten/2008/06/17/894667.html
00:12:22 <phenny> _bjoern: I'll pass that on when cre8radix is around.
00:27:27 *** ja has quit ("leaving")
00:29:11 *** lordi has quit (Remote closed the connection)
00:43:45 *** chrisb has quit (Remote closed the connection)
00:55:24 *** ja (n=c@c-98-216-10-223.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #swhack
01:04:42 *** MacTed (n=Thud@dhcp64-134-213-170.nyrh.nyc.wayport.net) has joined #swhack
01:11:43 <deltab> The Ricki Lake Show: Get a Clue! I'm Amusing You, and I'm Cheating on You Too!
01:23:29 *** jeffarch has quit (Remote closed the connection)
01:27:46 <MoiraA> .google 17.86 x 10%
01:27:52 <MoiraA> err
01:28:13 <MoiraA> .g 6% of 17.86
01:28:14 <phenny> MoiraA: http://www.culturemediasupplies.com/borosilicate_glassware.htm
01:28:16 <MoiraA> oh crap
01:28:44 <MoiraA> phenny: 17.86/100 x 6
01:29:11 <deltab> phenny: 17.86/100 * 6
01:29:14 <MoiraA> what in god's name
01:29:22 <MoiraA> phenny: tell sbp I broke you
01:29:22 <phenny> MoiraA: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
01:29:24 <deltab> Monty: 17.86/100 * 6
01:29:26 <Monty> SNES tangled fire engines screws fifty bad diary.
01:29:31 <deltab> .calc 17.86/100 * 6
01:29:32 <MoiraA> arnia
01:29:32 <phenny> 17.86/100 * 6 = 1.0716
01:29:35 <MoiraA> _bjoern
01:29:47 <MoiraA> am I doing something not right here
01:30:14 <MoiraA> aaah
01:30:16 <MoiraA> cheers
01:30:33 <MoiraA> .calc 17.86 + 1.08
01:30:34 <phenny> 17.86 + 1.08 = 18.94
01:30:48 * MoiraA could have had it done in head
01:30:56 <MoiraA> or the calc in vista even
01:31:00 <MoiraA> lol
01:31:23 <MoiraA> wahayyyy
01:31:29 <MoiraA> cheers deltab
01:44:51 *** andersfeder has quit ("Leaving.")
01:55:44 *** zachb has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:07:18 *** mahound has quit ("Leaving")
02:08:26 *** jeffarch (i=HydraIRC@pdpc/supporter/active/jeffarch) has joined #swhack
02:08:26 <Monty> howdy, jeffarch
03:10:37 *** BigJibby_ (n=matt@142.46.8.22) has joined #swhack
03:12:43 *** BigJibby has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
03:43:21 *** bjoern_ (n=bjoern@dslb-084-056-228-073.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #swhack
04:01:36 *** _bjoern has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
04:10:05 *** MoiraA has quit ("MBR virus : Copy me into your MBR")
04:29:15 *** MoiraA (i=moira@gateway/tor/x-0221f3abf83b8966) has joined #swhack
04:32:25 <MoiraA> test
04:32:29 <MoiraA> grrrr
04:33:04 <MoiraA> how can this be?
04:46:36 <radii> .u quote
04:46:37 <phenny> U+235E APL FUNCTIONAL SYMBOL QUOTE QUAD (⍞)
04:46:37 <Monty> "you"
04:50:53 *** martianixor (n=martiani@unaffiliated/martiancode) has joined #swhack
04:51:00 *** BigJibby_ is now known as BigJibby
05:01:17 <bjoern_> "u"
05:01:29 <bjoern_> countdown
05:01:29 <Monty> One large one and five small numbers: 75, 4, 10, 9, 4, 9. Your target is 857. You have thirty seconds, tick, tock, tick, tock...
05:01:41 <bjoern_> calc (4+3)*(75 - 9)
05:01:41 <Monty> bjoern_: 462
05:01:49 <bjoern_> calc (9+3)*(75 - 9)
05:01:49 <Monty> bjoern_: 792
05:01:57 <bjoern_> calc (9+3)*(75 - 9 + 4)
05:01:57 <Monty> bjoern_: 840
05:01:59 <Monty> Duh dum, duh dum, duh-da-da-dum! Your 30 seconds are up!
05:02:01 <Monty> I found a solution in approximately 31 milliseconds. I found all 24 solutions in about 62 milliseconds.
05:02:02 <Monty> ibot (75 + 9)*10 + 4 + 4 + 9
05:05:14 *** ja has quit ("leaving")
05:41:41 *** laplink has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
06:02:03 <bjoern_> .gs I * you all
06:02:04 <phenny> I * you all: hope (10), wish (9), love (6), whish (3), urge (3), salute (3), pray (3), invite (3), hate (3), greet (3), gave (3), encourage (3), emplore (3)
06:02:39 <bjoern_> .gs I * long phrases
06:02:40 <phenny> I * long phrases: like to loop (2)
06:09:22 *** laplink (n=link@57.80-203-251.nextgentel.com) has joined #swhack
06:27:04 *** laplink has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep")
06:29:14 *** laplink (n=link@57.80-203-251.nextgentel.com) has joined #swhack
06:33:42 *** laplink has quit (Client Quit)
06:42:08 *** KiYanWang (n=KiYanWan@62.172.77.66) has joined #swhack
06:45:02 *** KiYanWang has quit (Client Quit)
07:02:01 *** cre8radix (n=cre8radi@p54BE5967.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #swhack
07:03:59 *** MoiraA has quit ("MBR virus : Copy me into your MBR")
07:04:23 *** MoiraA (n=moira@92.11.107.117) has joined #swhack
07:09:25 <MoiraA> crap
07:09:30 <MoiraA> crap crap
07:09:36 <MoiraA> crap crap crap crap crap crap
07:13:01 *** leobard (n=Miranda@dfki-046.dfki.uni-kl.de) has joined #swhack
07:19:24 <MoiraA> oh dear
07:19:35 <MoiraA> anyone know how to retrieve their email with freenode?
07:19:47 <MoiraA> from nickser
07:19:49 <MoiraA> +v
07:19:55 <MoiraA> when you can't get into nickserv
07:20:05 <MoiraA> sbp perhaps I should h4x0r their server
07:24:52 <MoiraA> god, think I may have to seriously consider it
07:25:09 <MoiraA> [08:22] <Starnestommy> it'll be droppable in about 7 weeks and 5 days
07:25:09 <MoiraA> [08:22] <MoiraA> 7 weeks !!!!!!!!!!!!
07:25:09 <MoiraA> [08:22] <MoiraA> sorry
07:25:09 <MoiraA> [08:23] <MoiraA> 7 weeks :(
07:26:01 *** libby (n=libby@colbert-ext.lid.theveniceproject.com) has joined #swhack
07:26:02 <Monty> But what does libby have to do with the price of fish?
07:26:29 <bjoern_> Hello MoiraA
07:26:35 <bjoern_> How was your birthday?
07:26:36 <MoiraA> oh bjoern_
07:26:42 <MoiraA> it was wonderful thanks!
07:26:43 <MoiraA> great day
07:26:48 <MoiraA> today however
07:26:55 <MoiraA> I have lost my freenode cloak :(
07:26:57 <bjoern_> hung over?
07:27:01 <bjoern_> Oh, worse!
07:27:01 <MoiraA> no
07:27:04 <MoiraA> worse
07:27:08 <MoiraA> not been to bed either
07:27:19 <bjoern_> Join the club
07:27:25 <MoiraA> I am MoiraA here, but for some reason I have to identify as MoiraA_
07:27:37 <MoiraA> if I can't access nickserv how can I use pass reset
07:27:46 <MoiraA> nick info shows no email anyway
07:28:02 <MoiraA> all freenode can suggest is let it drop after 7 weeks or so
07:28:06 <bjoern_> I have no idea! But there is a #freenode here
07:28:10 <MoiraA> 7 weeks! I just renewed my cloak
07:28:19 <MoiraA> that is where I have been bjoern_
07:29:24 <MoiraA> still am
07:31:53 *** mmmmmrob (n=mmmmmrob@62.172.77.66) has joined #swhack
07:31:53 <Monty> But what does mmmmmrob have to do with the price of fish?
07:33:16 *** KiYanWang (n=KiYanWan@62.172.77.66) has joined #swhack
07:40:15 <MoiraA> bjoern_
07:40:18 <MoiraA> can you tell me
07:40:33 <bjoern_> I am totally clueless about cloaks
07:40:38 <MoiraA> is it possible to set up something to run my id on MoiraA_ through a dictionary attack
07:40:59 <MoiraA> I've got stuff that can do hashes etc
07:41:16 <MoiraA> and a good word list
07:41:21 <bjoern_> I would think (hope) freenode's software protects against that
07:41:37 <bjoern_> Are you saying you've lost your password?
07:41:42 <MoiraA> lost it
07:41:48 <MoiraA> it has disappeared
07:41:51 <MoiraA> god knows where
07:41:56 <MoiraA> I have tried every damn pass I ever used
07:42:15 <MoiraA> not lost so much as its freenode at fault
07:42:26 <MoiraA> something they did made every nick revert back to the master for its pass
07:43:14 <bjoern_> why can't freenode staff fix it for you then?
07:43:22 <MoiraA> because they're useless
07:43:37 <bjoern_> Beat them until they become useful!
07:43:41 <MoiraA> is it theoretically possible though
07:43:48 <MoiraA> yeah but I'm down to literally stuff like this
07:43:55 <MoiraA> I can't access server logs from way back
07:44:00 <MoiraA> and if I could I wouldn't
07:44:06 <MoiraA> daft to find the pass then get glined
07:48:17 <MoiraA> oh crap
07:48:29 <MoiraA> bjoern_ would any program possibly be worth trying
07:48:32 <MoiraA> ie writing quickly
07:48:40 <MoiraA> or is this a waste of time?
07:50:19 <MoiraA> bjoern_
07:50:24 <MoiraA> I need server access
07:50:33 <MoiraA> otherwise nothing going to recognise a pass
07:55:39 *** JibberJim has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
08:04:06 *** Talliesin (n=Talliesi@86.47.160.33) has joined #swhack
08:04:13 <sbp> yo
08:04:14 <phenny> sbp: 17 Jun 21:13Z <danja__> tell sbp a couple more impulse things for ya : http://hyperdata.org/danja/unfinished/
08:04:15 <phenny> sbp: 01:29Z <MoiraA> tell sbp I broke you
08:04:31 * sbp feels relatively unbroken
08:04:35 <MoiraA> lol
08:04:36 <MoiraA> phenny
08:04:44 <sbp> ooh, musical foods
08:04:52 <MoiraA> I got in a mess trying to put a percentage into err something else
08:04:56 * sbp downloads
08:04:59 <sbp> yeah, I saw
08:05:03 <MoiraA> already
08:05:05 <MoiraA> grief
08:07:56 <sbp> [[[
08:07:56 <sbp> About 200 years ago, we received a South Bank Show award for ‘Father Ted’, which was presented to us by an ageing and confused Barbara Cartland. I remember turning to see Melvyn Bragg chuckling behind his hand as she mispronounced the title of the show.
08:08:02 <sbp> It was all very amusing, but I present it here because it is a perfect metaphor for what I’m talking about: “Here’s your award but, ha, ha, fuck her and fuck you!”
08:08:03 <sbp> ]]]
08:08:36 <MoiraA> aaah
08:08:43 <MoiraA> did you ever see these sbp?
08:08:47 <MoiraA> I used to go to them in London
08:08:51 <bjoern_> Yay! I found a brief formula to determine the number of operands from the opcode number in my silly little VM here
08:09:05 <MoiraA> come again bjoern_?
08:09:12 <sbp> see what? South Bank Show awards?
08:09:12 <bjoern_> it's (129 / x) & 0b11
08:09:21 <MoiraA> I'm so pleased
08:09:29 <MoiraA> :)
08:09:42 <bjoern_> Pity about the / but I doubt +/- will do
08:10:21 <bjoern_> I have a little stack-based vm in javascript that creates dom documents
08:10:34 <bjoern_> so I have opcodes like createElement, appendChild, etc.
08:10:52 <bjoern_> they take a variable number of arguments and I have to know how many
08:13:41 <sbp> chuckle. fucked up quote of the day:
08:13:42 <sbp> http://www.bash.org/?868223
08:14:36 <bjoern_> very disturbing, clicking not recommended
08:27:23 <bjoern_> .c 12 in hex
08:27:24 <phenny> 12 = 0xC
08:27:47 <sbp> CCCCCCCCCCC
08:27:50 <sbp> 12222222222222222222222
08:27:57 <sbp> lollllllllllllllllllllllllllll
08:28:01 <sbp> etc..........................
08:28:06 <sbp> o haiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
08:28:14 <sbp> all of my lines are smudging
08:28:19 <sbp> .ety smudge
08:28:20 <phenny> "c.1430, smogen 'to soil, stain, blacken,' of obscure origin." - http://etymonline.com/?term=smudge
08:28:26 <sbp> Obscure Origin
08:28:27 <bjoern_> .c 15 in hex
08:28:28 <phenny> 15 = 0xF
08:34:07 *** idickinson (n=ijd@nat/hp/x-5875bcb0c935f06e) has joined #swhack
08:37:34 *** jeffarch has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
08:43:01 <bjoern_> .gc "Money withdraws YOU"
08:43:02 <phenny> "Money withdraws YOU": 0
08:48:14 *** cre8radix|off (n=cre8radi@p54BE5967.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #swhack
08:48:14 <Monty> yo cre8radix|off!
08:48:52 <Tene> .gc "withdraw sex from the bank"
08:48:53 <phenny> "withdraw sex from the bank": 0
08:49:48 *** idickinson has quit (Remote closed the connection)
08:50:13 *** cre8radix|off has quit (Client Quit)
08:53:59 <bjoern_> .gs withdraw * from the bank
08:54:01 <phenny> withdraw * from the bank: monies (3), moneys (3), deposits (3), days (3), coins (3), cash (3), money (2), leave (2), items (2), funds (2), euros (2), anything (2), 9900 (2)
08:55:22 <bjoern_> .gcs "withdraw my penis" "withdraw your penis"
08:55:24 <phenny> "withdraw your penis" (2,290), "withdraw my penis" (456)
08:55:38 <sbp> .gs withdraw * penis
08:55:39 <phenny> withdraw * penis: his (59), your (9), while (4), their (4), the (3)
08:55:43 <bjoern_> .ety withdraw
08:55:44 <phenny> "c.1225, 'to take back,' from with 'away' + drawen 'to draw,' possibly a loan-translation of L. retrahere 'to retract.' Sense of 'to remove oneself' is recorded from c.1300." - http://etymonline.com/?term=withdraw
09:00:05 <MoiraA> phenny: tell sbp to answer r
09:00:05 <phenny> MoiraA: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
09:00:13 <MoiraA> ohhhhh
09:00:32 <MoiraA> hjelp
09:00:34 <MoiraA> bjoern_
09:00:36 <MoiraA> someone
09:00:48 <MoiraA> Talliesin
09:00:51 <MoiraA> err
09:00:54 <Talliesin> ?
09:01:00 <MoiraA> thank the lord
09:01:04 <MoiraA> how aer your bot skills?
09:01:13 <Talliesin> poor to crap
09:01:22 <MoiraA> you don't need to tell me this was stupid
09:01:27 <Talliesin> Not something I've ever played with.
09:01:32 <MoiraA> but I just pretended to be an op on #freenode
09:01:36 *** idickinson (n=ijd@nat/hp/x-7cc01cadead803c6) has joined #swhack
09:01:36 <Monty> bah, it's idickinson again
09:01:43 <MoiraA> [09:58] <MoiraA> what's your problem? can I try and help?
09:01:43 <MoiraA> [09:58] <melodie> that would be nice thanks
09:01:43 <MoiraA> [09:58] <MoiraA> shoot
09:02:01 <MoiraA> and I haven't agot a fucking clue what she is asking
09:02:23 <MoiraA> [09:59] <melodie> I created a chan named #pclinuxos-fr and registered it, then I put someone op (put myself manager first with flag "49") and the person offered to put her bot
09:02:23 <MoiraA> [09:59] <MoiraA> yes
09:02:23 <MoiraA> [09:59] <melodie> then she told me that the bot to be efficient should be on access list, but watch out what flags : I would like a confirmation about one thing:
09:02:23 <MoiraA> [10:01] <melodie> I had an 'irc' lesson from a chap, time ago, and the other number flags : 10 or 5 didn't function anymore, it seems that the new commands don't allow more than two states of power : op and manager : is that right ?
09:02:52 <MoiraA> phenny: tell sbp he has a wonderful knack of not being there just when I need him
09:02:53 <phenny> MoiraA: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
09:03:50 <sbp> hellos
09:03:50 <phenny> sbp: 09:00Z <MoiraA> tell sbp to answer r
09:03:52 <phenny> sbp: 09:02Z <MoiraA> tell sbp he has a wonderful knack of not being there just when I need him
09:04:05 <MoiraA> thank the lord
09:04:15 <MoiraA> I am so waffling and googling here
09:04:21 <MoiraA> I feel a total idiot
09:04:30 <sbp> perhaps you ought to do something else :-)
09:04:32 <MoiraA> what the fuck level should this bot have
09:04:43 *** cre8radix has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
09:04:47 <MoiraA> this is unfair on a pleasant, genuine young girl
09:04:55 <MoiraA> promise to after this
09:05:01 <sbp> tell her I don't think it matters
09:05:07 <sbp> bots don't really need any privs
09:05:11 <sbp> unless they're opping bots etc.
09:05:17 <sbp> in which case, given them +o as a flag
09:05:24 <sbp> do /msg ChanServ HELP FLAGS for more details
09:05:35 <MoiraA> I have every help channel
09:05:49 <MoiraA> [10:05] <melodie> /MSG ChanServ ACCESS #pclinuxos-fr ADD BTOB 10
09:05:49 <MoiraA> [10:05] <melodie> then it returned
09:05:49 <MoiraA> [10:05] <melodie> "-ChanServ- Invalid template name given, use /msg ChanServ TEMPLATE #pclinuxos-fr for a list"
09:06:18 * sbp wanders off, things to do
09:08:08 <MoiraA> sbp
09:08:09 <MoiraA> please
09:08:12 <MoiraA> you rotten
09:08:16 <MoiraA> how can you do this
09:08:46 <MoiraA> [10:06] <melodie> then on the template list there were only " OP +votriA" and "MANAGER +votsriRfA"
09:08:46 <MoiraA> [10:07] <melodie> so is there a possibilité to play with the diverse letters that are in +votriA for instance, by choosing rather one or the other, and is there a page somewhere with the meaning of theses ?
09:08:46 <MoiraA> [10:08] <MoiraA> sure
09:08:46 <MoiraA> [10:08] <MoiraA> one sec, lets start at the beginning
09:08:51 <MoiraA> this has gone so wrong
09:13:57 * Talliesin cyber-spanks MoiraA
09:14:01 <Talliesin> Now go stand in the corner!
09:17:36 <MoiraA> I had to tell one of the ircops
09:17:57 <MoiraA> I just can't let such a pleasant user leave thinking freenode admins are all this dumb
09:18:06 <MoiraA> I have never had to learn so much in so small a time
09:18:50 <Talliesin> Like why you shouldn't have pretended to be an op on #freenode?
09:19:42 <MoiraA> and /msg chanserv help flags
09:19:49 <MoiraA> and freenode levels
09:21:08 <Talliesin> I think that do not pretend to be an op on #freenode remains the core lesson!
09:21:20 <Talliesin> Hence the cyber-spanking and cornertime.
09:21:42 <Talliesin> Alternatively you could learn to not give a shit and be more of a bastard.
09:22:03 <Talliesin> Then you could pretend to be a #freenode op and just laugh at the havoc caused.
09:22:19 <Talliesin> Not exactly moral, but less conflicting for you.
09:23:59 <MoiraA> no way
09:24:05 <MoiraA> if it was some dumb user yes
09:24:11 <MoiraA> but she is so sweet, so nice and pleasant
09:24:50 <Talliesin> Yes, but if you were evil you wouldn't care.
09:25:03 <Talliesin> And if you were good it wouldn't have happened.
09:25:19 <Talliesin> Merely naughty fails compared to both good and evil in this case.
09:26:18 <MoiraA> it isn't fair on the freenode staff
09:26:26 <MoiraA> they have had crap all morning
09:26:37 <MoiraA> then they get one nice pleasant female user
09:26:43 <MoiraA> and I try to take the piss
09:26:52 <MoiraA> that guy has to be so fed up
09:31:33 <Talliesin> Exactly. Go stand in the corner. 1 minute per year of your age.
09:32:41 <MoiraA> please
09:32:42 <MoiraA> [10:31] <MoiraA> let me get the correct syntax for you
09:32:42 <MoiraA> [10:31] <melodie> tough I will never know what letters the numbers were supposed to cover
09:32:42 <MoiraA> [10:31] <melodie> oh yes, with pleasure !
09:32:42 <Monty> http://www.digitoday.fi/mobiili/2008/06/17/Operaattori+rahastaa+3G+iPhonen+kytkykaupalla/200816363/66
09:36:39 <MoiraA> .google freenode access levels
09:37:51 <MoiraA> .g freenode access levels
09:37:52 <phenny> MoiraA: http://puzzles.wikia.com/wiki/Help:User_access_levels
09:38:01 <Talliesin> This is still going on?
09:38:13 *** JibberJim (n=jim@217.41.230.45) has joined #swhack
09:38:21 <Talliesin> I thought you passed them onto an ircop?
09:42:35 <MoiraA> ffs
09:42:42 <MoiraA> phenny get a proper link
09:42:46 <MoiraA> I told an ircop
09:42:54 <MoiraA> he is feeding me answers when I get stuck
09:43:00 <MoiraA> otherwise not sounding very friendly
09:44:29 <Talliesin> Why are you continuing with this?
09:44:48 <MoiraA> because she is so nice
09:44:52 <MoiraA> and we are getting there
09:44:56 <MoiraA> all she fucking wants is a url
09:44:58 <MoiraA> [10:44] <MoiraA> just having to find it myself
09:44:58 <MoiraA> [10:44] <MoiraA> they've rearranged their help pages and my bookmarks are all wrong
09:44:58 <MoiraA> [10:44] <MoiraA> literally just days ago
09:45:03 <MoiraA> what lies
09:45:06 <MoiraA> oh dear
09:46:05 * Talliesin isn't joking any more. Someone really should spank you!
09:46:11 <Talliesin> Direct her to someone who knows.
09:46:31 <MoiraA> listen I have somehow winged it
09:46:43 <MoiraA> the fact she's french means she misses some of the really stupid stuff
09:47:05 <MoiraA> [10:35] <MoiraA> I think we should forget the level 10
09:47:05 <MoiraA> [10:35] <MoiraA> in fact that has probably been completely discontinued at all levels now
09:47:05 <MoiraA> [10:36] <melodie> might be.
09:52:28 <MoiraA> please find me a french link to user levels Talliesin
09:52:30 <MoiraA> please
09:52:31 <MoiraA> pleae
09:52:33 <MoiraA> se
09:52:40 <MoiraA> she is so grateful
09:52:45 <MoiraA> she so did not deserve me
09:52:51 <Talliesin> I haven't a clue.
09:54:02 *** chris2 (n=chris@p5B16AFAA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #swhack
09:55:44 <MoiraA> chris2
09:55:49 <MoiraA> you are my rescue
09:55:55 <MoiraA> how do I find a french link
09:56:06 <MoiraA> every fucking channel is leaving me to this
09:56:38 <chris2> uh
09:56:45 <chris2> google.fr? :P
09:57:15 <MoiraA> I'm panicking thougbh
09:57:22 <MoiraA> if it was you faced with this
10:00:37 <Talliesin> I'd say I haven't a clue.
10:00:50 <Talliesin> Even in things I do claim expertise in I'd say that.
10:00:56 <Talliesin> Indeed, I often do.
10:02:28 <MoiraA> yeah but that is ok when you are not pretending to represent freenodes leet ircops
10:02:32 <MoiraA> they are not very pleased
10:02:37 <MoiraA> which is one thing
10:02:56 <MoiraA> then she is so damned grateful for what must be the worst advice given in the history of freenode
10:03:09 <MoiraA> even my links are not quite have the desired effect
10:03:27 <MoiraA> http://debian-facile.org/wiki/doku.php?id=logiciel:freenode
10:03:38 <MoiraA> [11:00] <melodie> it's more funny than useful
10:03:38 <MoiraA> [11:00] <melodie> ok
10:05:16 <MoiraA> oh please
10:05:17 <MoiraA> [11:03] <melodie> /cs access #debian-facile add pseudo 1
10:05:17 <MoiraA> [11:04] <melodie> It seems that this 1 number should be has been also isn't it ?
10:05:17 <MoiraA> [11:04] <MoiraA> sorry, lol
10:05:17 <MoiraA> [11:04] <MoiraA> the number 1 should be what
10:05:26 <MoiraA> now the damned vet is coming
10:05:34 <MoiraA> admins don't have the vet coming
10:11:20 *** cre8radix (n=cre8radi@p54BE5967.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #swhack
10:11:27 <deltab> shouldn't be a number, because it uses flags now
10:12:04 <deltab> did you use chanserv's help access ?
10:14:13 <MoiraA> yes
10:14:16 <MoiraA> and it was great
10:14:18 <MoiraA> sorted the problem
10:14:24 <MoiraA> except fopr that
10:14:29 <MoiraA> she isn't a dummy
10:15:32 <deltab> except for what?
10:21:12 <bjoern_> .title http://research.microsoft.com/research/downloads/Details/8826adb9-8398-40d6-a22d-951923fe2647/Details.aspx
10:21:13 <phenny> bjoern_: Spec# for Visual Studio 2008
10:38:22 *** JibberJim has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
10:39:01 <MoiraA> well that was perhaps the worst moment of my life
10:39:14 <MoiraA> except that now 3 admins want me in a private room later on to discuss it
10:39:34 <MoiraA> which I don't think means congratulating me on thinking on the spot
10:40:24 <MoiraA> then she wants french links to access help
10:40:31 <MoiraA> and my first link
10:40:31 <Monty> can
10:40:32 <MoiraA> [11:00] <melodie> it's more funny than useful
10:40:32 <MoiraA> [11:00] <melodie> ok
10:40:36 <MoiraA> great
10:40:36 *** mahound (n=mahound@unaffiliated/mahound) has joined #swhack
10:40:42 *** cre8radix has quit ("your mama! >:)")
10:40:55 *** cre8radix (n=cre8radi@p54BE5967.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #swhack
10:41:03 <MoiraA> then we chat and she turns out to be so good at english because it's needed when studying computer science
10:41:25 <MoiraA> she knows debian, advanced computing and speaks two languages
10:41:31 <MoiraA> how long before she twigs
10:41:41 <cre8radix> hoy
10:41:41 <phenny> cre8radix: 00:12Z <_bjoern> tell cre8radix http://www.abendblatt.de/daten/2008/06/17/894667.html
10:42:13 <MoiraA> phenny: tell sbp I am in big trouble thanks to him
10:42:13 <phenny> MoiraA: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
10:43:01 <cre8radix> ;)
10:46:03 <cre8radix> phenny: tell _bjoern lol @ gesäßtest
10:46:04 <phenny> cre8radix: I'll pass that on when _bjoern is around.
10:46:07 <MoiraA> my explanation for being slow
10:46:08 <MoiraA> [10:44] <MoiraA> just having to find it myself
10:46:08 <MoiraA> [10:44] <MoiraA> they've rearranged their help pages and my bookmarks are all wrong
10:46:08 <MoiraA> [10:44] <MoiraA> literally just days ago
10:46:21 <MoiraA> I am making them look so efficient
10:46:40 *** MacTed has quit ()
10:46:50 <MoiraA> then I diss chanlev
10:46:52 <MoiraA> [11:15] <MoiraA> it is just done because one conflicts with the other
10:46:52 <MoiraA> [11:15] <MoiraA> it's the way the bot is set up on freenode itself
10:46:52 <MoiraA> [11:15] <MoiraA> still got a few bugs
10:46:52 <MoiraA> [11:15] <MoiraA> chanlev
10:46:58 <MoiraA> which you don't even have here
10:47:00 <MoiraA> do you?
10:47:05 <MoiraA> chanserv is it not
10:47:09 <deltab> right
10:48:26 <MoiraA> that really is not funny
10:48:30 <MoiraA> a service they don't run has bugs
10:48:57 <MoiraA> and they rearranged their bookmarks days ago without telling their admins which is why I link her to a joke site someone deliberately fed me
10:49:04 <MoiraA> when I asked for a help url
10:49:17 <MoiraA> she must think this has gone so downhill
10:49:32 <MoiraA> all sbp said was "bots don't need privs"
10:49:56 <MoiraA> [10:11] <MoiraA> first, bot levels in the channel
10:49:56 <MoiraA> [10:12] <melodie> ok
10:49:56 <MoiraA> [10:12] <MoiraA> bots don't usually need any privs
10:49:56 <MoiraA> [10:12] <MoiraA> privileges
10:49:56 <MoiraA> [10:12] <MoiraA> so as far as that goes, it doesn't really matter
10:49:57 <MoiraA> [10:13] <melodie> this one bot needs some priviledges, as it has a guardian role
10:49:59 <MoiraA> [10:16] <MoiraA> right
10:50:24 * deltab nods
10:50:43 <MoiraA> so Im frantically googling and trying to remember what I know
10:50:50 <MoiraA> so I give old info out about level 10
10:51:13 <MoiraA> [10:35] <MoiraA> I think we should forget the level 10
10:51:13 <MoiraA> [10:35] <MoiraA> in fact that has probably been completely discontinued at all levels now
10:51:13 <MoiraA> [10:36] <melodie> might be.
10:51:13 <MoiraA> [10:37] <melodie> MoiraA thanks a lot for your help. :)
10:51:30 <deltab> send "help access" to chanserv
10:51:30 <Monty> soneras(the oper tha that here
10:51:46 <MoiraA> she is away now
10:51:46 <deltab> ah, you forgot chanserv?
10:51:52 <MoiraA> completely satisfied
10:51:59 <MoiraA> I said chanlev being used to qnet
10:52:09 <MoiraA> the vet
10:52:10 <MoiraA> sec
10:52:10 <deltab> but yeah, they have changed the access system fairly recently
11:24:14 <Monty> _bjoern: You asked me to remind you to <phenny> _bjoern: 15 Jun 07:34Z <xover> tell _bjoern <http://swhack.com/logs/2008-06-15#T07-24-03>.
11:32:26 *** kpreid has quit ()
11:34:08 *** kpreid (n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-12-135.twcny.res.rr.com) has joined #swhack
11:42:48 *** andreaja has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
11:47:57 <sbp> yo
11:47:58 <phenny> sbp: 10:42Z <MoiraA> tell sbp I am in big trouble thanks to him
11:48:12 <MoiraA> heh
11:48:17 <MoiraA> this is a total nightmaer
11:48:18 <MoiraA> sbp
11:48:28 <MoiraA> please go and tell them that usually I am quite normal
11:48:35 <MoiraA> I mean I don't do this
11:48:38 <MoiraA> only I did
11:48:46 <MoiraA> you left me to it you rat
11:48:50 <MoiraA> it was so not funny
11:49:39 *** sbp changed the topic to: "<Talliesin> Someone really should spank you!"
11:50:10 <MoiraA> you are just faffing around while they seriously are going to gline me
11:50:17 <MoiraA> and they say this user should be told
11:50:23 <MoiraA> have you no influence there
11:50:26 <MoiraA> for goodnesss sake
11:50:43 * sbp gets to the contemporary bit of the logs
11:50:54 <MoiraA> which bit?
11:50:57 <sbp> sorry I couldn't help, I had an appointment
11:50:58 <MoiraA> and wprst
11:51:04 <MoiraA> did you fuck
11:51:06 <MoiraA> sorry
11:51:12 <sbp> hmm?
11:51:18 <sbp> I didn't fuck, no
11:51:38 <sbp> appointments are never that fun
12:00:51 *** chris2 has quit ("Leaving")
12:19:40 *** wrldpc has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
12:23:00 *** martiancode (n=martiani@unaffiliated/martiancode) has joined #swhack
12:25:48 *** martianixor has quit (Nick collision from services.)
12:25:54 *** martiancode is now known as martianixor
12:44:20 *** wrldpc (n=wrldpc@pool-71-174-89-247.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) has joined #swhack
12:46:16 <sbp> wrldpc: hello, welcome to Swhack
12:46:20 <sbp> this is a publically logged channel
12:46:21 <sbp> what's up?
12:56:39 *** mahound has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
12:57:10 *** mahound (n=mahound@unaffiliated/mahound) has joined #swhack
13:09:41 *** martianixor is now known as martiancode
13:30:45 <nslater> todays xkcd is good :)
13:36:50 *** andersfeder (n=feder@x1-6-00-0e-2e-63-4c-cb.k415.webspeed.dk) has joined #swhack
13:52:11 <MoiraA> hi nslater
13:52:13 <MoiraA> I feel weak
14:00:23 *** andersfeder has quit ("Leaving.")
14:01:02 <sbp> wrldpc?
14:11:38 <nslater> wrldpc?
14:12:51 *** darobin (n=robinb@m57.net81-66-103.noos.fr) has joined #swhack
14:13:16 *** JibberJim (n=jim@colbert-ext.lid.theveniceproject.com) has joined #swhack
14:15:20 <sbp> wrldpc joined and didn't speak. IT'S A BOT!
14:17:55 <nslater> aha
14:18:00 <nslater> or someone who doesnt like you
14:18:07 *** darobin has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.82.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.6/2007072517]")
14:18:12 <nslater> wrldpc: PIX PLS
14:18:54 *** darobin (n=robinb@m57.net81-66-103.noos.fr) has joined #swhack
14:22:06 *** blomkruka (n=ignore@3.107.227.87.static.lv.siw.siwnet.net) has joined #swhack
14:22:27 <sbp> yo blomkruka
14:22:33 <blomkruka> yo yo
14:22:39 <nslater> pip pip
14:22:39 <Monty> oh man. classic. i guess small a ruling that good song
14:22:42 <sbp> welcome to Swhack
14:22:48 <sbp> this is a publically logged channel btwz
14:22:53 <nslater> blomkruka: asl?
14:23:10 <nslater> blomkruka: asl#z?
14:23:31 <blomkruka> nslater 16/f/swe
14:23:40 <sbp> hehe
14:23:43 <nslater> oh mang, sweet, wanna cyber?
14:23:50 <nslater> im 42/m/texas
14:24:07 <blomkruka> your website says something else
14:24:14 <nslater> ur 2 clever 4 me
14:24:18 <sbp> his website is full of lies
14:24:18 <blomkruka> yeah...
14:25:05 * nslater still pines for http://inter.net/master
14:25:39 * nslater still pines for man@inter.net
14:26:17 *** cskaterun has quit ()
14:26:20 <nslater> wat http://www.1nt3r.net/
14:36:39 <clsn> Coolest known email address is still dot@dotat.at
14:38:11 <nslater> ha
14:39:35 <clsn> I wrote to him once mostly for the joy in having that email in my outgoing box.
14:39:43 <nslater> did he reply?
14:52:28 <MoiraA> I am surrounded by idiots
14:53:11 <nslater> MoiraA: welcome to life :)
14:53:31 <MoiraA> what kind of person thinks they can get away with giving a false name on a bank transfer?
14:53:40 <MoiraA> I'm sending someone stuff I don't want
14:53:43 <nslater> a fraudster, probably
14:53:49 <MoiraA> he isn't even that clever
14:53:51 <Talliesin> MoiraA: Is today really the day where you get to call people idiots?
14:53:59 <MoiraA> seems like it
14:54:19 <MoiraA> Im sorry but someone doing what he is doing should not come out with bjorn erikkson when the bank ask his name
14:54:40 <Talliesin> I've cashed checks written to my screen name
14:54:40 <MoiraA> Im giving that and the bank are like, you shitting me or what?
14:54:44 <MoiraA> yes
14:54:49 <MoiraA> if that is the bank account name
14:55:02 <MoiraA> he finally realised I needed his real name
14:55:15 <MoiraA> which I already had because it was so pifflingly easy to get
14:55:37 <MoiraA> "this payment links us" ahah and the channel doesn't
14:55:51 <Talliesin> Nope, wasn't the bank account name. We have pretty liberal laws about names here, though as far as banking goes that has changed recently.
14:55:53 <MoiraA> this is so hard to find that osama bin laden could come and be safe
14:57:35 <Talliesin> But apart from that you can just start using any name you want here, and that included for banking about 10 years ago.
14:57:45 <MoiraA> yes
14:58:00 <MoiraA> but if the name on the account whatever that is does not match the name he gives
14:58:02 <Talliesin> Changed with a whole bunch of stuff to stop money laundering. Takes all the creativity out of writing cheques :(
14:58:07 <MoiraA> then the bank will not put it through
14:58:29 <Talliesin> Crossed cheque?
14:58:43 <Talliesin> Oh wait, draft wasn't it.
14:58:51 * Talliesin has a head like a sieve sometimes.
15:00:28 *** nwalsh (n=ndw@66-189-4-239.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com) has joined #swhack
15:11:12 <jsled> .u 2019
15:11:12 <phenny> U+2019 RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK (’)
15:13:45 <Talliesin> One of everyone's favourites there, jsled
15:13:58 <jsled> indeed.
15:14:04 <jsled> Hey Talliesin. :)
15:17:31 *** andersfeder (n=feder@x1-6-00-0e-2e-63-4c-cb.k415.webspeed.dk) has joined #swhack
15:22:49 *** jeffarch (i=HydraIRC@pdpc/supporter/active/jeffarch) has joined #swhack
15:35:55 <MoiraA> sbp
15:36:04 <MoiraA> when you said stay out of freenode
15:36:10 <MoiraA> I guess you were spot on
15:36:20 <MoiraA> I juswt made everything 10 times worse
15:45:43 *** KiYanWang has quit ()
15:47:36 *** jeffarch has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
15:49:24 *** jeffarch (i=HydraIRC@pdpc/supporter/active/jeffarch) has joined #swhack
15:54:18 *** idickinson has quit (Remote closed the connection)
15:55:55 <wrldpc> i'm not a bot
15:56:19 <sbp> wrldpc: prove it!
15:56:39 <wrldpc> heh
15:57:50 <clsn> PIX OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN.
15:58:45 <wrldpc> flickr.com/worldpeace
16:07:34 <MoiraA> we might get a visitor
16:08:08 <MoiraA> bit of luck he will decide to do what customs in miami did to my cousin when she lost her passport
16:10:09 *** spb (n=stephen@freenode/developer/exherbo.spb) has joined #swhack
16:11:12 <jsled> uh oh. spb vs. sbp. When they meet, they annihilate each other in a burst of pure energy.
16:11:20 <spb> hasn't happened yet
16:11:21 <phenny> spb: 09 Apr 13:27Z <timbl> tell spb that you should understand your own name in init caps really :-)
16:11:25 <spb> doesn't mean it never will
16:11:33 <spb> wat.
16:11:42 <sbp> timbl always misspells my name
16:11:46 <sbp> also, hellos!
16:11:49 <spb> hi!
16:12:02 <jsled> and, of course, xchat colors both your nicks the same. good job, xchat.
16:12:04 <sbp> (and he's referring to phenny, not me. nor you)
16:12:11 * Arnia is confused
16:12:23 <sbp> Arnia: say hellos to my brother-in-metathesis!
16:13:03 <sbp> so what's up mang?
16:13:13 <nslater> haha
16:13:24 <nslater> spb pwnd by timbl
16:13:29 <spb> oh noes, nslater as well
16:13:29 <Arnia> bloody bloody algebra
16:13:30 <sbp> hehe
16:13:45 <sbp> Arnia: whose algrbra befuddles thee?
16:13:50 <nslater> spb: welcome to Swhack, this is a publicly errotic channel
16:14:00 <kpreid> hey Arnia, I have an algebra question
16:14:01 <MoiraA> oh!
16:14:04 <MoiraA> you did come
16:14:04 <spb> as opposed to the other one, which is...?
16:14:08 <MoiraA> ah welcome
16:14:20 <sbp> publically kinky
16:14:27 <sbp> we separate out the kinky and the erotic
16:14:33 <sbp> the two basic elements of sexuality
16:14:50 <sbp> so that we may align them into straunge new sexual compounds
16:14:57 <nslater> kinkeh
16:15:02 <sbp> .gcs kinkotic erotky
16:15:03 <phenny> kinkotic (98), erotky (46)
16:16:06 *** bjoern_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
16:17:25 <MoiraA> spb these guys will unconfuzzle you
16:17:36 <MoiraA> and its a wonderful channel
16:17:44 <MoiraA> the reason I would not want to leave freenode
16:18:29 <nslater> YO, n5h MY MAN
16:18:29 <Monty> look pretty weak, then. That way round I did greece make this dumb
16:18:30 <n5h> you may safely assume i know enough to be told it's all outlook and ultimately you're in hurry mang. ^^ massive dick. point. yah. i want to do it for him.
16:18:39 <sbp> Arn1a: cobwebs
16:18:42 <Arn1a> well, the defining condition almost of a monoid. how would you spare me my pretty.
16:18:43 <nslater> n5h: massive dick? wat
16:18:44 <n5h> i forgot about the end-user, baby. heh, i was rather referring to the single course of its contemporary-import. totally.
16:18:55 <sbp> Monty: Arn1a looks pretty weak?
16:18:56 <Monty> bots etc.
16:18:56 <nslater> plum: hit on n5h
16:18:57 <n5h> true was good toadstory. anyway.
16:18:59 <Arn1a> bad spec! mm... overloading. ah beanz meanz heinz. variety 58.
16:19:00 <plum> n5h, it's a plum't look at the tits, you should have cybered him. wanna have cybersex?
16:19:01 <n5h> ooo. attach uninflated balloons. except most people can't metre. monty remembers everything. see ;-).
16:19:01 <Monty> three?
16:19:05 <sbp> five!
16:19:05 <nslater> toadstory? nice
16:19:19 <sbp> pwaaaaaarrrRrrring
16:19:30 <clsn> While I have nothing in particular to add to the discussion at this point, let me just mention in advance that I am *certain* to confuse sbp and spb, in reading and writing, frequently.
16:19:31 <nslater> VRRRRRRRooooooooooooooooMMMMMMMMMMMMMm
16:19:38 <sbp> clsn: excellent!
16:19:44 <clsn> I'm just saying.
16:19:45 <spb> clsn: that's the spirit
16:19:46 <sbp> Kkkk-splutch
16:19:59 <nslater> plum: remember when n5h said "the good ol wind-up chalky toasdtools are back"?
16:19:59 <n5h> it seems to think the distinction is (contingently very useful in those sorta situations. aye.
16:20:02 <plum> i just remembered that i couldn't agree more. it was i remembered that.
16:20:10 <spb> also, exactly how many markov bots are there in here?
16:20:17 <sbp> about seven or something
16:20:18 <clsn> Probably best to regard you as essentially the same person, who doesn't necessarily remember what we talked about before.
16:20:19 <sbp> we've sorta lost count
16:20:20 * nslater herfts into spb
16:20:25 <clsn> (which is a lot like me and ... um, me.)
16:20:28 <sbp> spb: I spoke to JonathanD today, by the way, and he was a bit weird
16:20:38 <sbp> spb: eventually I twigged that he probably thought I was you
16:20:45 <nslater> cherry!
16:20:48 <nslater> no cherry
16:20:48 <spb> sbp: i spoke to MoiraA earlier
16:20:53 <sbp> so if he's all... sexual towards you, you'll know why
16:20:59 <sbp> yes, so she's been telling me
16:20:59 <nslater> hahaha
16:21:16 <nslater> plum, wind-up chalky
16:21:19 <MoiraA> poor guy is now in a whirl
16:21:21 <plum> i look forward to your renewed and whatever you wind up chalky right plum? you wind up building with them!
16:21:34 <nslater> >@(
16:21:44 <MoiraA> [17:06] <spb> oh, i'm getting confused again
16:21:44 <MoiraA> [17:06] <MoiraA> it's this combination of letters
16:21:44 <MoiraA> [17:06] <MoiraA> really I do make sense
16:22:09 <spb> she messaged me to say she messaged someone on qnet to say she got the two of us confused
16:22:16 <sbp> at least I can keep my letters straight
16:22:20 <spb> and i thought she'd got us confused again
16:22:25 <sbp> spb: awesome
16:22:30 <spb> then it all made sense, eventually
16:22:45 <sbp> insofar as anything Moiraic can make sense, sure
16:22:57 <nslater> spb, new swhack rule, you have to change your nick to spb-not-sbp-kthx
16:23:00 <MoiraA> I'm just steps ahead
16:23:05 <spb> nslater: feck off
16:23:09 <nslater> :(
16:23:09 <sbp> I had to piece the same puzzle together from the other side
16:23:10 <nslater> ν
16:23:24 <spb> sbp: well, making *me* confused by the similarity between our nicks is quite an achievement
16:23:27 <sbp> at least you had the patterned side...
16:23:31 <sbp> ehheh
16:23:36 <MoiraA> that is the problemit comes from trying to stay one step in front of a user who thinks I'm brilliant and wants to know stuff I have absolutely no knowledge of
16:24:35 <nslater> n5h oh n5h wherefor art thou
16:24:35 <n5h> and some other stuff. that was touched upon slightly.
16:24:42 <nslater> kinkeh
16:26:52 <sbp> <- this one is me, by the way
16:26:58 <nslater> helpful
16:27:02 <sbp> you're welcome
16:27:20 <spb> <- and this one is me
16:27:40 <sbp> **
16:27:41 <sbp> Robotic Smokey Bear: Only who can prevent forest fires?
16:27:41 <sbp> (Bart has the choice between the buttons "me" and "you," so he presses "you.")
16:27:42 <sbp> Robotic Smokey Bear: You pressed you, referring to me. That is incorrect. The correct answer is you.
16:27:44 <sbp> **
16:27:54 <spb> is ** this channel's equivalent of [[[ ]]]
16:28:07 <sbp> nope, [[[ and ]]] was pretty much born here
16:28:08 <clsn> "Aha! Pronoun trouble!" -- Daffy Duck
16:28:16 <sbp> I've just started using ** and ** for variety in the past few days
16:28:21 <sbp> after like five years of using [[[ and ]]]
16:28:22 <spb> fair enough
16:28:49 <sbp> (which I stole from Dan Connolly, incidentally)
16:28:50 *** jeffarch_ (i=HydraIRC@pdpc/supporter/active/jeffarch) has joined #swhack
16:29:05 <nslater> sbp: stop it
16:29:05 *** jeffarch has quit (Nick collision from services.)
16:29:07 <nslater> sbp: at once
16:29:08 *** jeffarch_ is now known as jeffarch
16:29:12 <sbp> stopwhatplz
16:29:20 <nslater> your using "**" - it confuses me
16:29:25 <spb> [[[
16:29:26 <nslater> "[[[" and "]]]" work fine
16:29:28 <nslater> ]]]
16:29:29 <MoiraA> you ok nslater?
16:29:30 <sbp> but it looks so purdy
16:29:37 <nslater> no, it looks horrid
16:29:37 <spb> DAMN YOU NSLATER YOU BROKE MY THINGIE
16:29:43 <MoiraA> I thought spb would feel sane in here
16:29:48 <sbp> you totally weren't going to post anything
16:29:50 <spb> i always feel sane
16:29:55 <sbp> we could see it in your... eyes
16:29:56 <clsn> Thou shalt not mess with someone else's quote deely.
16:30:00 <MoiraA> no doubt he now thinks its a madhouse
16:30:02 <nslater> sbp: i dont like it because it's not opening anything
16:30:02 <spb> sbp: completely beside the point
16:30:11 <clsn> spb has no eyes. He has an s, a p, and a b. No i.
16:30:29 <nslater> sbp: as in, the characters, they dont open or close, they just "are"
16:30:34 <nslater> sbp: you want { or [ or (
16:30:42 <nslater> [[[
16:30:42 <sbp> nslater: well you have to hum a ditty in Ab mixolydian when you see the opening **, and in F# aeolic when you see the closing one. that suffices to distinguish them
16:30:43 <nslater> mky
16:30:46 <nslater> ARGH!
16:30:47 <nslater> ]]]
16:30:51 <clsn> There is no I in TEAM. But there is an EAT ME.
16:30:55 <spb> http://penny-arcade.com/images/2008/20080618.jpg
16:31:20 <sbp> mmm... turkey
16:31:26 <nslater> your commic ammuses me not
16:31:37 <sbp> come on. turkey is tasty!
16:31:43 <spb> oddly enough
16:31:44 <nslater> i wouldnt know
16:31:47 <nslater> MEAT IS MURDER
16:31:57 <spb> the turkey itself is not as tasty as the gravy made with it
16:31:57 <nslater> .... TASTY, TASTY MURDER
16:31:57 <sbp> only when the animal is cute
16:32:03 <sbp> turkeys are the least cute animal
16:32:03 <clsn> If meat were rape, maybe it would be more popular?
16:32:04 <spb> or the potatos, roasted in turkey fat
16:32:08 <sbp> and therefore the most acceptable meat
16:32:21 <nslater> BEEP
16:32:27 <sbp> actually, the least cute edible animal I suppose. there are some strange creatures out there
16:32:35 <spb> most of those are edible too
16:32:40 <spb> just not often eaten
16:32:42 <sbp> true
16:32:49 <clsn> Maybe meat should be, um, estoppel. Or some other weird crime.
16:32:59 <sbp> .wik Estoppel
16:33:00 <phenny> "Estoppel is a legal doctrine recognised both at common law and in equity in various forms." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estoppel
16:33:18 <clsn> Estoppel isn't a crime really.
16:33:28 <sbp> .gc vexst
16:33:29 <phenny> vexst: 4,660
16:33:30 <spb> k off out
16:33:34 <sbp> c'ya spb!
16:33:39 <spb> bye sbp
16:33:48 <sbp> o/ till we meet again o/
16:33:54 <nslater> bai
16:34:52 * sbp skims w:Estoppel
16:35:08 <clsn> It's just a nice funny-sounding legal term.
16:35:47 <sbp> "Where one person (‘the representor’) has made a representation of fact to another person (‘the representee’) in words or by acts or conduct, or (being under a duty to the representee to speak or act) by silence or inaction, with the intention (actual or presumptive) and with the result of inducing the representee [...]" - this could so be an RFC
16:36:04 <clsn> Where do you think the RFC people got it from?
16:36:08 <sbp> hehe
16:36:16 <clsn> Legal eagles have been writing that way for centuries.
16:36:21 <sbp> the internet is just estoppel statues with a few words crossed out?
16:36:27 <sbp> er, statutes even
16:36:38 <clsn> Talmud is easier to read, seems somehow less stilted, but is at least as nitpicky.
16:36:51 *** mmmmmrob has quit ()
16:36:59 <sbp> according to the Talmud, is electricity fire?
16:37:04 *** JibberJim has quit (No route to host)
16:37:18 <procto> .ety estoppel
16:37:19 <phenny> Can't find the etymology for "estoppel". Try http://etymonline.com/?search=estoppel
16:37:24 <Arnia> I'm househunting :/
16:37:28 <procto> sounds germanic
16:37:37 <clsn> The Talmud was written in like the 1st or 2nd century. They didn't know electricity from a hole in the wall.
16:37:57 <MoiraA> I am away
16:38:07 <MoiraA> now spb got a nice goodbye
16:38:22 <MoiraA> when sbp left
16:38:24 <nslater> spb is still ehre
16:38:27 <MoiraA> I know
16:38:31 <MoiraA> this is doing my head in
16:38:43 <sbp> clsn: there's a chapter in one of Feynman's books where he talks about how he went to some Jewish school/place-thing in NYC and they were discussing whether electricity, and it drove Feynman up the wall
16:38:59 <procto> I remember that
16:39:02 <sbp> (whether electricity is fire, even)
16:39:25 <clsn> How so? Certainly fire *is* considered electricity by modern rabbinical judaism. Why would that drive Feynman up the wall? Apart from the fact that it ISN'T fire.
16:39:39 <procto> well, that's exactly what drove him crazy
16:39:47 <procto> the chabadnics I've spoken to abotu this
16:39:55 <procto> consider the purpose of the prohibition of fire
16:40:03 <procto> and since they find that electricity would serve the same purpose
16:40:12 <procto> it would be a technicality that they would be able to use it
16:40:14 <procto> hence, they don't.
16:40:24 <clsn> Considering the purpose is a dangerous enough proposition.
16:40:28 <procto> on the other hand, they don't have problems with bullshit like Eruv
16:40:31 <procto> which is fucking weird, to me.
16:40:35 *** Talliesin has quit ("Leaving.")
16:40:38 <MoiraA> erm
16:40:41 <sbp> the whole thing is here: http://www.gorgorat.com/
16:40:41 <MoiraA> sbp went out
16:40:42 <clsn> I figured it was basically due to similarities in function and behavior.
16:40:46 <procto> clsn: bad phrasing. I meant "functional prohibition"
16:40:46 <MoiraA> you went out did you not
16:40:52 <MoiraA> who the hell left?
16:41:02 <MoiraA> spb
16:41:06 <sbp> chapter is "Is Electricity Fire?"
16:41:06 <MoiraA> except he ah
16:41:12 <MoiraA> I finally understand
16:41:15 <MoiraA> he went but idles
16:41:22 <MoiraA> I am so out of here
16:41:24 <nslater> spb is still here - KICK HIM FOR GREAT JUSTICE
16:41:25 <MoiraA> back later
16:41:35 <MoiraA> nslater don't even say that as a joke
16:41:39 <clsn> procto: well, erk. That starts to lead into some real annoyances I'm starting to have with rabbinic judaism lately... not making no sense wrt other notions, but being inconsistent even by its own logic.
16:41:39 <nslater> why?
16:41:42 <MoiraA> can you imagine what that would do
16:41:47 <nslater> what would it do?
16:42:04 <procto> clsn: oh I've had those annoyances for a while :>
16:42:19 <MoiraA> you really think the ircops on freenode today would find it funny if I tried kicking them
16:42:30 <MoiraA> do you want rid of me that badly?
16:42:33 <clsn> Yeah, but I've been *awfully* patient about them. Just finally getting fed up.
16:42:40 <nslater> nah, i was talking to sbp, he can kick ANYONE caus he is internet mastah
16:42:42 <sbp> [[[
16:42:43 <sbp> They said, "In the Talmud it says you're not supposed to make fire on a
16:42:43 <sbp> Saturday, so our question is, can we use electrical things on Saturdays?"
16:42:43 <sbp> I was shocked. They weren't interested in science at all! The only way
16:42:43 <sbp> science was influencing their lives was so they might be able to interpret
16:42:43 <sbp> better the Talmud! They weren't interested in the world outside, in natural
16:42:43 <Monty> wow close
16:42:45 <sbp> phenomena; they were only interested in resolving some question brought up
16:42:47 <sbp> in the Talmud.
16:42:49 <sbp> ]]]
16:42:50 <MoiraA> oh clsn I am so sorry
16:42:53 <procto> clsn: as a general caveat, I am most familiar with the philosophies and notions of chabad.
16:42:58 <MoiraA> I realise you are fed up
16:42:58 <jsled> clsn: do you think rabbinic judaism is an anachronism? :)
16:43:09 <MoiraA> I'll leave you guys in peace for a while
16:43:19 <clsn> MoiraA: I wasn't talking about internet cops or anything.
16:43:22 <procto> clsn: from nearly secular chabadnics to my bar mitzvah preparer who was the resident kabbalist at my shul
16:43:24 <MoiraA> you are right - event he most patient have a breaking point
16:43:28 <MoiraA> oh
16:43:43 <MoiraA> I assumed the whole situation was irritating to you
16:43:43 <procto> clsn: so most of my bar mitzvah preparation was about learning various mystical traditions
16:43:50 <MoiraA> I am one though
16:44:06 <sbp> I like this bit too:
16:44:07 <procto> clsn: which I thought was the norm, until I was told usually they kids just practice the songs. I got a tape of him reading my parasha to practice at home for that stuff.
16:44:09 <sbp> [[[
16:44:09 <sbp> One of the questions the rabbinical students and I discussed at some length
16:44:09 <sbp> was why it is that in academic things, such as theoretical physics, there is
16:44:09 <sbp> a higher proportion of Jewish kids than their proportion in the general
16:44:09 <sbp> population. The rabbinical students thought the reason was that the Jews
16:44:10 <sbp> have a history of respecting learning: They respect their rabbis, who are
16:44:12 <sbp> really teachers, and they respect education. The Jews pass on this tradition
16:44:14 <sbp> in their families all the time, so that if a boy is a good student, it's as
16:44:16 <sbp> good as, if not better than, being a good football player.
16:44:18 <sbp> ]]]
16:44:19 <clsn> procto: Yeah, chabad is a good example of the more loony side of such things. More annoying than most. But even going with the more haskala kind of thinking...
16:44:25 <clsn> MoiraA: I was talking with procto.
16:44:38 <MoiraA> ok lol I understand
16:44:40 <MoiraA> but even so
16:44:46 <MoiraA> I think I should give irc a break
16:45:12 <clsn> sbp: yes, there are theories about that, about social norms that affected the way Jews penetrated the gentile world... whatever,
16:45:25 <procto> clsn: well, I liked it. mysticism as a general mode of thinking is very cross-cultural. so it has many parallels with taoism.
16:45:53 <sbp> procto: have you read William James?
16:45:54 <procto> clsn: much of the stuff in the Sefer HaBahir is very similar to the Tao Te Ching, except the Bahir is more riddle-like.
16:46:00 <procto> sbp: nope
16:46:13 <sbp> he has an interesting chapter on mysticism I read the other day
16:46:22 <sbp> I've read lots of stuff *after* James about mysticism
16:46:24 <clsn> As to their disinterest in science... well, yes. The study of Talmud is about the applicability of the legal framework of the biblical and rabbinic laws. Science matters to the extent that it affects the world which is subject to the rules.
16:46:41 <sbp> so I was intrigued about this. James was really the first to study religion as a process, as an experienced thing, in the western world
16:47:03 <procto> sbp: looking over his wp page, looks rather interesting. the epistemology section on that page is especially interesting.
16:47:17 <clsn> mysticism is another matter. I'm not a big fan of it either, mind you, but that's not even so much the looniness you get with chabad. They wind up being an extreme example of overapplying concepts whose proponents never meant for them to applied that way,.
16:47:30 <sbp> .title http://www.sacred-texts.com/etc/vre/vre13.htm
16:47:32 <phenny> sbp: The Varieties of Religous Experience: Lectures XVI and XVII. Mysticism
16:47:39 <procto> sbp: because it aligns with my own epistemologicals models, which I seemt o have arrived at by totally other paths
16:47:41 <clsn> sacred-texts.com++
16:47:53 <sbp> yeah, site of win
16:48:06 <sbp> procto: what paths?
16:48:27 <sbp> I looked at mysticism at lot when I was at college
16:48:32 <procto> sbp: well, mine is from the study of semantics
16:48:36 <sbp> and now I'm kinda getting back into it via literary theory, which is odd
16:48:52 <procto> sbp: so I guess I've arrived at something similar to "pragamtism" via decision theoretic semantics
16:49:03 <clsn> procto: see http://seqram.livejournal.com/13544.html for an example of this kind of fail.
16:49:50 <sbp> .wik decision theoretic semantics
16:49:52 <phenny> "Proof theory is a branch of mathematical logic that represents proofs as formal mathematical objects, facilitating their analysis by mathematical techniques." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_theory
16:50:37 * sbp struggles to find out anything about DTS
16:51:01 <procto> clsn: hehehe interesting
16:51:15 <procto> sbp: yes, it's a tad esoteric
16:51:16 <procto> one sec
16:52:05 <clsn> A year or so later I think I actually found an antique source that said November 22... but that's because it predated the change! Lemme find the entry on that,.
16:52:23 <procto> sbp: http://semanticsarchive.net/Archive/WRlNDkxM/irsdm.pdf
16:52:58 <sbp> thanks
16:53:15 <procto> arthur merin is pretty much "the" dts dude
16:53:21 <clsn> procto: http://seqram.livejournal.com/16276.html
16:53:37 <sbp> clsn: I celebrate Old Christmas Day
16:53:44 <sbp> which is Christmas in the Julian calendar
16:53:59 <sbp> the main problem is finding and convincing people to celebrate it with me
16:54:26 <procto> sbp: that's the one on dec 7, yes?
16:54:33 <procto> the one that the orthodox celebrate?
16:54:34 <sbp> 6th January
16:54:36 <procto> just get some russians
16:54:37 <MoiraA> I become a jehovahs witness at xmas
16:54:39 <procto> sorry, jan 6
16:54:40 <MoiraA> saves all the stress
16:54:41 <procto> that's what I meant :>
16:54:50 <procto> well, I meant jan 7
16:54:52 <procto> but close enough
16:54:59 <procto> sbp: but yeah, russians are who you want.
16:55:15 <sbp> the Russians? oh, the Russians
16:55:35 <sbp> well, or that strange Scottish island which still supposedly uses the Julian calendar
16:55:38 <clsn> It has been said or joked that if Jesus was born on Dec 25, then his circumcision, at eight days old, would be Jan 1. Which is sometimes used as a reason why Jews shouldn't celebrate New Years. "See? It's really a religious holiday!" (*sigh*)
16:55:51 <sbp> ha
16:56:21 <procto> except in Israel, New Year's is called The Sylvester
16:56:27 <procto> the pope whose day it is...
16:56:34 <sbp> why's that? ah
16:56:41 <Arnia> hm... http://web.aspasia.net/pls/cathedrl/rv?id=600
16:57:12 <procto> sbp: another interesting paper applying a DTS-esque approach to "but". it's short but dense: http://semanticsarchive.net/Archive/2NlYzdjO/dtoalu.pdf
16:57:27 <procto> Arnia: looks decent
16:57:35 <sbp> Arnia: yeah, thumbs up
16:57:48 <clsn> procto: huh?
16:57:51 * sbp gets dtoalu.pdf too
16:58:17 <procto> clsn: huh re what?
16:58:31 <clsn> procto: re Sylvester. Why pope sylvester?
16:58:38 <procto> it's his day
16:58:42 <procto> he's been sainted or some such
16:58:50 <clsn> Oh oh you mean like St Sylvester's day? OK.
16:58:50 <procto> so jan 1st is sylvester's day
16:58:53 <procto> yeah
16:58:55 <clsn> Gotcha.
16:59:03 <procto> who started calling it that I don't know
16:59:15 <procto> but I believe it was in reaction to the russians bringing in the soviet "new year's"
16:59:25 <procto> which is celebrated basically like christmas in the west
16:59:28 <clsn> Good, so THAT isn't a Christian reference or anything. Not like calling it "New Years" or something.
16:59:30 <procto> except on new year's
17:00:00 <procto> well, the phrase "new year's" in hebrew is "rosh hashana" so you can't really have 2
17:00:00 <procto> I mean you can say 'shana khadahsa'
17:00:00 <clsn> I haven't been in Israel since before the big Russian influx I think. Or before some of it.
17:00:00 <procto> khadasha*
17:00:11 <procto> well, me neither, since I was part of it :>
17:00:19 <procto> I came in the big 1990 wave
17:00:24 * procto was 3
17:00:56 <clsn> Well, sure. I'm just whining about how people elsewhere get their knickers in a twist about celebrating New Years and its imaginary religious overtones, whereas instead they went with calling it by the name of its saint...
17:01:11 <procto> heh, right
17:01:25 <clsn> I was last in Israel in 1992 I think.
17:02:16 <procto> one year before the internet got in my brain :>
17:02:28 <procto> I'd say it has changed quite a lot since then
17:02:34 <procto> but it hasn't changed very much since 2000
17:02:52 <procto> one would think that after 8 years absence one would notice all the glaring changes
17:02:55 <procto> but there weren't many
17:03:02 <procto> the biggest one is the greater integration of "minorities"
17:03:17 <procto> russian stores are big and on main streets now
17:03:17 <Monty> by for spamin ur 2
17:03:31 <procto> and ethiopeans are rapping on the radio
17:03:43 <procto> (they're black so obviously they should rap, right?)
17:04:54 <procto> (of course my meaning is that this is not the case at all)
17:05:27 <procto> clsn: I think the main Israeli distaste at russian new year's was the trees, and santa (sorry I mean "father winter")
17:06:15 <clsn> Yeah, fair enough. That would be annoying.
17:07:02 <clsn> When I was in Israel in the 80s I remember some other Americans there musing about how they missed seeing more minorities on the streets...
17:07:34 <procto> now there are plenty
17:07:44 <clsn> Yeah. A more integrated place.
17:07:48 <procto> which as a sort of a minority myself I like
17:08:05 <procto> though I found that I now look more "american" than "russian" in Israel
17:08:17 <procto> and I can get my away more easily if I fake an american accent in my hebrew :>
17:08:22 <procto> way*
17:08:25 <procto> like getting into bars
17:08:33 <procto> Israel has a drinking age of 18
17:08:37 <procto> but bars have random age policies
17:08:40 <procto> that are usually rolling
17:08:45 <procto> that is, they start by letting everyone in
17:08:47 <clsn> Heh. My hebrew isn't bad, when I've had a little time to get used to it, but my accent stinks, still.
17:08:51 <procto> but as the night goes on, they raise the age they allow in
17:09:32 <procto> so I wasn't able to get into a bar at first because they had the limit at 25
17:09:41 <procto> but I was able to convince the bouncer eventually
17:12:17 <Arnia> Grr www.transportdirect.info
17:12:26 <procto> my last visit to Israel was very interesting
17:12:39 <procto> I always pretend I'm an anthropologist
17:12:42 <procto> and after 8 years away
17:12:46 <procto> I had become not quite a native
17:12:59 <procto> but definitely more familiar with everything that just about any other non-native
17:13:08 <procto> so I could pay attention to a lot of nuances
17:13:12 <procto> which was fascinating
17:13:31 * Arnia tries to find out about bus routes
17:14:48 <MoiraA> where are you going?
17:15:25 <Arnia> I need to know how easy it will be commuting from various places I'm looking at houses in to the Science Site
17:17:01 <Arnia> Looking at this one now http://web.aspasia.net/pls/cathedrl/rv?id=736
17:17:07 <Arnia> Same block, but furnished
17:18:00 <Arnia> Low ceilings though... hm
17:18:48 <Arnia> Advantage is, my best friend (my current housemate) is moving to one road over
17:42:24 <sbp> .t Z
17:42:25 <phenny> 2008-06-18T17:42:24Z
17:42:41 <sbp> ‘"Download Day" ends at 11:16 AM PDT (18:16 UTC) 18 June’
17:42:45 <sbp> - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefox_3.0#Version_3.0
17:43:04 <xover> GAH! Seriously X-Chat, what the fuck? You pick nick colors based on Huffman or what?
17:43:54 <Tene> xover: sum of ascii values of letters % number of colors, iirc.
17:45:08 <xover> Also, airports suck so much ass they're like the spinchter-holes of the universe; they must be the Dark Matter equivalent of Black Holes.
17:52:20 *** libby has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:37:31 <xover> .title http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/06/13/a-remarkable-photo-from-tornado-country/
18:37:32 <phenny> xover: A Remarkable Photo From Tornado Country - The Lede - Breaking News - New York Times Blog
18:37:38 <nslater> wow, reddit has released it's source code: http://code.reddit.com/
18:37:46 <nslater> like... WOW
18:38:22 <chandler> http://code.reddit.com/browser/LICENSE
18:38:35 <chandler> that hit the "eyes glazing over" threshold quickly
18:38:38 <nslater> oh what, they invented a new licence
18:38:41 <nslater> fail
18:38:54 <nslater> well, semi-fail, still cant get passed the fact they released the source
18:39:00 <xover> And I see it mentions "commercial use".
18:39:14 <sbp> xover: wow
18:39:26 <xover> Which is an early-fail marker in my book.
18:39:33 <chandler> [[[
18:39:41 <chandler> (a) As a modest attribution to the organizer of the development of the Original
18:39:41 <chandler> Code ("Original Developer"), in the hope that its promotional value may help
18:39:41 <chandler> justify the time, money and effort invested in writing the Original Code, the
18:39:41 <chandler> Original Developer may include in Exhibit B ("Attribution Information") a
18:39:41 <chandler> requirement that each time an Executable and Source Code or a Larger Work is
18:39:43 <chandler> launched or initially run (which includes initiating a session), a prominent
18:39:46 <chandler> display of the Original Developer's Attribution Information (as defined below)
18:39:48 <chandler> must occur on the graphic user interface employed by the end user to access such
18:39:51 <chandler> Covered Code (which may include display on a splash screen), if any.
18:39:53 <chandler> ]]]
18:40:13 <chandler> (yech. why do people still assume that my text viewer of choice can't wrap long lines properly?)
18:40:27 <nslater> thats an interesting condition
18:40:48 <chandler> and here's their attribution image:
18:40:49 <chandler> http://code.reddit.com/reddit_logo.png
18:40:55 <chandler> that's not just a little badge
18:40:56 <nslater> Times Blog
18:41:00 <nslater> hmm
18:41:04 <nslater> where did that come from
18:41:04 <Monty> HATE
18:41:08 <nslater> ν
18:41:21 <chandler> Monty: couldn't agree more
18:41:21 <Monty> Please go on.
18:41:42 <MoiraA> nslater
18:41:43 <nslater> my initial assesment is that this is not free software
18:41:47 <MoiraA> am I interrupting?
18:41:48 <nslater> for the following reason:
18:41:57 <MoiraA> will pm
18:42:06 <nslater> 1) it requires you to include specific image in your modifications
18:42:18 <nslater> 2) specific image is not modifiable or available under a free licence
18:42:26 <nslater> which means that the whole thing is non-free
18:42:28 <sbp> <xover> And I see it mentions "commercial use".
18:42:29 <nslater> which is a big shame
18:42:32 <sbp> -> non-free
18:42:38 <nslater> sbp: no, not nessesarily
18:42:48 <nslater> the only place it mentions commercial use is to allow it :)
18:43:48 <chandler> hm. OSI approved it, not that this means anything
18:43:55 <nslater> source?
18:44:08 <nslater> the OSI is a joke, fwiw :)
18:44:31 <sbp> nslater: oh, heh
18:44:33 <chandler> yeah, totally agree
18:44:36 <chandler> .title http://lwn.net/Articles/243841/
18:44:37 <phenny> chandler: Open-source badgeware [LWN.net]
18:45:14 <sbp> man. licensing. licenses. isn't it? suckulous
18:45:14 <chandler> nslater: is the presence of an image like that really much different from a requirement not to remove copyright statements?
18:45:22 <nslater> yes :(
18:45:30 <nslater> (ill explain)
18:46:59 <procto> not really in my opinion
18:47:11 <xover> Hmm. I smell a local/small-time lawyer dipping his toes in “IP” here.
18:47:41 <procto> in that lwn article they seem to say something about how not removing attribution constitutes a prohibition on modification
18:47:41 <chandler> hm. this license comes from Socialtext
18:47:48 <nslater> to draw a paralel with an actual problem in ubuntu at the moment, they distribute firefox in the main component, which is supposed to be free software, i.e. has the four freedoms (run for any purpose, study how it works, redistribute, modify) - the problem being that the firefox branding (images) are not licenced under a free licence, which means that as a downstream redistributer of ubuntu there are some files (creative works) which I am unable to ...
18:47:55 <nslater> ... modify, which is, by definition, non-free
18:48:09 <procto> but since the attribution badge isn't part of the software
18:48:18 <nslater> of course it is, you have to include it
18:48:21 <xover> Oh yes, they use the “IP” term without defining it; and IP, AFAIK, isn't actually a legal term.
18:48:28 <nslater> and the people you distribute to cannot remove it or modify it
18:48:28 <procto> it's more like "this free software requires you distribute it alongside non-free art"
18:48:34 <nslater> yes
18:48:35 <chandler> nslater: right, the mozilla parallel leapt to mind, but suppose the image wasn't an obnoxious huge banner and just a simple statement of copyright
18:48:50 <nslater> so anything you make with this reddit code gets shackled to some non-free art
18:48:55 <procto> then you get things like Iceweasel :>
18:48:55 <nslater> which is unsatisfactory
18:48:56 <sbp> procto: ...then how is it free software?
18:48:57 <sbp> yeah
18:49:01 <procto> the software is free
18:49:09 <nslater> not if it is shackled to non-free artwork
18:49:30 <nslater> chandler: attribution is fine, in text form, when you have to use non-free artwork, it's a proble,
18:49:49 <nslater> chandler: attribution forms the core of most licences :)
18:50:10 <sbp> nslater: what about if the attribution boilerplate is copyrighted?
18:50:22 *** jeffarch has quit (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- In tests, 0x09 out of 0x0A l33t h4x0rz prefer it :)")
18:50:22 <nslater> thats usually considered part of "the licencing"
18:50:29 <procto> but what's the difference between the prohibition against modifying the license and the attribution badge?
18:50:31 <nslater> just like the CPL is copyright protected
18:50:33 <nslater> GPL
18:50:34 <nslater> rather
18:50:37 <nslater> you cant modify the GPL
18:50:40 <procto> right, exactly
18:50:45 <chandler> right. which is why I'm trying to parse out this gray area
18:50:50 <sbp> so then the GPL itself isn't free
18:50:57 <sbp> "the four freedoms (run for any purpose, study how it works, redistribute, modify)"
18:51:02 <nslater> no, but it's not software, so it doesnt matter
18:51:04 <chandler> sbp: which the FSF would readily admit, I think
18:51:04 <procto> it should be flexible enough to allow dropping the badge in case you're running the software embedded or on text-only
18:51:05 <nslater> or rather
18:51:07 <sbp> and since any software using the GPL must include it...
18:51:07 <nslater> it doesnt apply
18:51:15 <sbp> well the image isn't software either
18:51:18 <procto> well, the artwork isn't software either
18:51:19 <chandler> sbp: since they require you to get permission before making derivatives
18:51:21 <nslater> has
18:51:21 <sbp> but you must include the image
18:51:21 <nslater> ha
18:51:35 *** _bjoern (n=bjoern@dslb-084-057-246-049.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #swhack
18:51:37 <sbp> chandler: indeed
18:51:48 <procto> let's say the GPL was in a PNG
18:51:50 <mahound> well, but it doesn't seem you can opt for an "iceweasel" solution in this particular case of reddit
18:51:51 <procto> that had to be included
18:51:52 <sbp> awesome. so we've just proven that all software which uses the GPL is non-free
18:51:53 <procto> you'd have the same thing
18:51:54 <nslater> but licencing is quite different from artwork
18:52:00 <sbp> nslater: how so?
18:52:10 <procto> it's just an extension of the licensing
18:52:12 <sbp> you're requiring people to include a non-free work
18:52:14 <nslater> not really
18:52:18 <procto> you're just specifying HOW attribution must be carried out
18:52:29 <nslater> "just" is a misleading word :)
18:52:53 <chandler> perhaps the difference would be if they required you to include the "how to apply these terms to your new programs" section with the GPL
18:52:58 <sbp> hmm. I wonder if you could include the GPL as a PNG
18:53:21 <nslater> but even if you could, the gpl is what gives you the freedoms in the first place and part of it's conditions are that you cannot modify the copyright attribution or the licence]
18:53:33 <nslater> this is needed to ensure the freedoms of the users
18:53:38 <procto> the GPL in a PNG licensed as GFDL?
18:53:39 <procto> :>
18:53:43 <chandler> sbp: no, since the PNG would be a derivative of the GPL and they do not allow distribution of GPL derivatives without permission
18:53:47 <nslater> a non-free bit of advertising is not required for the licencing
18:54:02 <sbp> chandler: horrible! this GPL non-freeness is really limiting, it seems
18:54:11 <nslater> chandler: where did you get that?
18:54:15 <nslater> chandler: i think you're wrong
18:54:29 <chandler> nslater: no idea, I'm just playing a really bad lawyer on IRC :-)
18:54:30 <procto> chandler: what if the FSF was distributing it in that form alone
18:54:33 <nslater> a PNG GPL is not a derivative :)
18:54:54 <nslater> it's a different format of the same thing
18:55:05 <nslater> like if i printed it onto paper, i havent made a derivative
18:55:15 <procto> the GPL has positive phrasing, right? (been a while since I read it)
18:55:24 <procto> so as long as you specify HOW attribution must be done
18:55:25 <procto> you're fine
18:55:30 <procto> as far as "free-ness" goes
18:55:50 <sbp> what if I set it to music?
18:55:57 <procto> or paint on a canvas
18:55:58 *** jeffarch (n=jja@170-215-220-141.nas1.glv.ny.frontiernet.net) has joined #swhack
18:55:59 <sbp> would it be a derivative then?
18:56:03 <procto> I think the issue is functional
18:56:04 <mahound> as long as you don't make stallman sing it...
18:56:08 <sbp> yikes
18:56:18 <procto> that is, is the license's function speficially in description of somew ork
18:56:20 <procto>
