00:04:28 <bsh> phenny, tell sbp http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000QDXZZ8
00:04:29 <phenny> bsh: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
00:11:40 <bsh> .gs my man is a * man
00:11:42 <phenny> my man is a * man: mean (69), bad (4), real (3), good (3), me (2), m3an (2), harley (2)
00:11:45 <bsh> .gs my woman is a * woman
00:11:46 <phenny> my woman is a * woman: real (2)
00:12:09 <bsh> .gs my girlfriend is a * girlfriend
00:12:10 <phenny> my girlfriend is a * girlfriend: vampire my (2), man my (2), lesbian help my (2), fan my (2)
00:12:13 <bsh> .gs my girlfriend is a * girl
00:12:14 <phenny> my girlfriend is a * girl: nice (2), jealous (2), great (2), chesty (2), boyish (2), big (2), bar (2)
00:12:19 <MoiraA> hi
00:12:32 <bsh> Hello MoiraA
00:12:41 <MoiraA> testing a nick one sec
00:12:51 <MoiraA> huh
00:12:59 <Arnia> Huh... ok, so that seems to be working now
00:13:05 <MoiraA> oh dear
00:13:11 <MoiraA> that won't do they don't like it
00:13:23 <Arnia> They don't like things working?
00:17:09 <chandler> bsh: oh dear. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000VYKDKW is even funnier
00:17:45 <chandler> alic3!
00:17:45 <alic3> then followed a shower of saucepans.
00:17:59 <chandler> alic3: that had to hurt
00:18:00 <alic3> i know what you turned a corner rather more quickly than usual, she ran with all their simple joys.
00:18:06 <bsh> No, the funny thing is that they are all linked from http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002CYTL2
00:20:09 * chandler burninates his browser cookies lest he contaminate other Amazon items
00:21:00 <deltab> MoiraA: the new nick, or are you in a channel where you can't talk?
00:21:22 <MoiraA> not talk?
00:21:25 <MoiraA> me?
00:21:57 <MoiraA> the new freenode superop with the truly brilliant chanserv advice?
00:22:12 <MoiraA> the whole server makes appointments to hear me talk
00:22:23 <MoiraA> sorry deltab not to my knowledge
00:22:33 <MoiraA> only poor String
00:22:36 <deltab> the only reason for not being able to change nick I know of is being in a channel when you cannot talk, because of it being moderated or banned
00:22:37 <MoiraA> on msn
00:22:44 <MoiraA> oh no
00:22:50 <MoiraA> I have found another way
00:23:01 <MoiraA> you can make an erroneous choice
00:23:21 <deltab> oh, or the nick having bad characters or being in use
00:23:37 <bsh> .gs "mit sozialistischem gruss"
00:23:38 <phenny> Query must have one "*" exactly
00:23:41 <bsh> .gc "mit sozialistischem grußs"
00:23:43 <phenny> "mit sozialistischem grußs": 0
00:23:43 <bsh> .gc "mit sozialistischem gruß"
00:23:43 <MoiraA> perhaps I am -v on +m channels, I think poor String would like mute mode on msn
00:23:44 <phenny> "mit sozialistischem gruß": 5,170
00:23:45 <bsh> .gc "mit sozialistischem gruss"
00:23:46 <phenny> "mit sozialistischem gruss": 5,010
00:24:12 <bsh> .gc "mit sozialistischen grüssen"
00:24:13 <phenny> "mit sozialistischen grüssen": 1,660
00:31:37 <jsled|lap> Morbus: re: s&s ... what's the scope of the Encyclopedant/Sojourner interaction in each "round"? Is is: Encyclopedant sets a scene, and 1-2 days later the sojourners submit articles, or is there a finer-grained back-and-forth? I'd imagine the later, given a grounding in those other rules...
00:31:57 <Morbus> there's a finer-grained back and forth.
00:32:03 <Morbus> ideally, it's a play by post roleplaying game.
00:32:08 <jsled|lap> ah good. right.
00:32:10 <Morbus> the GM sets the scene, the players tell what the scholars are doing, etc.
00:32:19 <Morbus> perhaps the GM enforces notes being added in every post
00:32:32 <Morbus> but, after mini milestones, the GM calls for an article from all players
00:32:56 <jsled|lap> yup. I'm not on the wrong path then. Well, not about that, anyways. :)
00:33:02 <Morbus> for me, i'm imagining a play by post RPG, with an enforced "every post must contain your actions, but also a snippet of your journal/notes"
00:33:08 <Morbus> and then i'd randomly call for articles at certain stages.
00:33:33 <Morbus> jsled: did you see the wiki page?
00:33:58 <jsled|lap> Yup. Then noticed it (was) being updaetd between when I moved from the desktop to the laptop.
00:34:06 <Morbus> for me, the enforced journal snippets per post cause paranoia amongst the other players.
00:34:18 <Morbus> ie., the scholars are secretly all reading each other's journals to get a one-up on them for their own articles.
00:34:18 <jsled|lap> I also wasn't involved in Ghyll, so I'm browsing through that, too.
00:34:29 <Morbus> which is the sort of backstabbery that i can easily imagine in Ghyll's scholar circles.
00:34:34 <jsled|lap> Oh, interesting.
00:34:46 <Morbus> phenny, tell sbp to read logs between Morbus and jsled around this timestamp.
00:34:47 <phenny> Morbus: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
00:35:03 <jsled|lap> Yeah. Academic catty-ness is probably inevitable.
00:35:25 <Morbus> encouraged ;)
00:35:31 <jsled|lap> heh
00:35:44 <Morbus> it didn't happen a huge amount in the lexicon game.
00:35:49 <Morbus> it certainly did, but it took a while to warm up to it.
00:36:02 <Morbus> in a PBP/team-based scenario such as "adventuring scholars", it should be more obvious
00:36:30 <Morbus> they are, all, competing for an article in the Encyclopedia. they're only sticking together as a team because there's strength in numbers.
00:36:32 <jsled|lap> Hmm. The scale and scope there seems different. There's no competative field of the shared scenario.
00:36:33 <Morbus> and they're adventuring into new places to get these articles.
00:36:36 <Morbus> the great unknown, etc.
00:36:46 <Morbus> hmm?
00:37:03 <deltab> and the lesser unknown
00:37:16 <jsled|lap> It seemed with Ghyll that on any given turn, the players could be at different ends of the world, let alone in completely different points in the timeline.
00:37:32 <Morbus> yes, but that was discouraged, actually.
00:37:34 <Morbus> it did get to that point.
00:37:39 <Morbus> people started creating their own little gardens.
00:37:45 <jsled|lap> Here, they're all in the same scene, with a fixed (somewhat) number of interesting things to write about.
00:37:51 <Morbus> towns that were pockets and miles away from where everyone else was.
00:38:07 <jsled|lap> Plus, the explicit competition of the Encyclopedant's selection.
00:38:15 <Morbus> it reduced collaboration. so pretty early on, i started pulling the map in tighter, killing things that were just 40 million miles away, etc.
00:38:25 * jsled|lap nods
00:38:35 <Morbus> there's a faq abotu this, actualluy.
00:38:36 * Morbus roots around.
00:38:55 <Morbus> very final question: http://www.gamegrene.com/wiki/Frequently_Asked_Questions#To_Whom_Does_One_Appeal_to_Create_a_New_Orthogonality.3F
00:41:04 <Morbus> jsled: re: same scene. right. and, to some degree, scholars would want to write about something "different" than the other players, because there's a greater chance of the work standing on its own (due to no competition). but, i'm imagining the enforced notes/journal exposure giving players a chance to decide if they want to argue (write the same entry as another) vs. strike new ground ("Dammit, he chose what i wanted to write about...
00:41:04 <Morbus> ")
00:41:10 <Morbus> i don't have the right answer, yet.
00:41:22 <Morbus> i don't know how it'll work, in practice. as there's been no practice.
00:41:41 <Morbus> there *will*, however, be single topics that all players must write about.
00:41:45 <Morbus> this was one of sbp's ideas.
00:42:08 <Morbus> that, as a whole, the Ghyll Encyclopedia knows that there is something Missing, and it sends a flyer around to all its "prospective scholars" to write about "Fiffles".
00:42:25 <Morbus> so all the players write about fiffles, "submit" them, argue about them, etc., etc.
00:42:44 <Morbus> there's rationale for them to want to write about these things, because winning entries can attributed to the scholar inside the encyclopedia.
00:42:45 <jsled|lap> Request for Article.
00:42:51 <Morbus> which is exactly what these scholars want in the first place.
00:42:53 <Morbus> right, exactly.
00:43:24 *** therethinker (n=zach@c-76-118-203-70.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #swhack
00:43:31 <therethinker> swhackaholic!
00:44:07 *** therethinker changed the topic to: "Arnia's matrices are bigger than yours"
00:44:09 <Morbus> the sort of atmosphere that players/scholars should be feeling, and which the game should promote/offer/integrate is the feeling that they're all so close to a scientific breakthrough (metaphor). and they are all racing for the final dollars, final "eureka" that will let them get published in Nature, or Science, or whatever.
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00:45:02 <Morbus> but, due to the relatively open nature of science and "following the trail of money", everyone tends to know what everyone else is working on.
00:45:09 <Morbus> (ie., notes/journal entries being expose)
00:45:21 <Morbus> (again, all metaphorically)
00:45:25 <therethinker> what are we talking about?
00:45:29 <therethinker> loggy:uri
00:45:31 <jsled|lap> yeah.
00:45:35 <therethinker> loggy: uri?
00:45:35 <loggy> http://swhack.com/logs/2008-06-20#T00-45-35
00:46:13 <jsled|lap> The forced exposure could get tricky. do the PCs get to select the lines? Or should it be "random"?
00:46:33 <Morbus> well, my feeling is that there's a logical rationale. (typing).
00:47:01 <jsled|lap> (good, I need to afk for a second anyways. ：）
00:47:01 <Morbus> the articles that the scholars write *must* somehow be visibly tied into their notes (ie., a player can't write notes/journals, and then produce an article that is entirely different than their notes).
00:47:20 <Morbus> you have to "show your research", per se, in any scientific article, and the ghyll encyclopedia is no different.
00:47:41 <Morbus> the final articles are readable and concise and understandable, but somewhere underneath, there's hidden fact-checking, "proof", etc., etc.
00:47:53 <Morbus> so, the notes/journals must always have /some/ relation to the articles being written.
00:48:01 <Morbus> and that's largely up to the Game Master to decide if they do.
00:48:15 <Morbus> the reward/penalty system is experience.
00:48:34 <therethinker> Is this a game to create a DB of knowledge?
00:48:35 <Morbus> if you don't "show your work" (write about what you've been "researching"), then you don't get as much experience, even if your article is selected.
00:48:44 <Morbus> therethinker: no, that already happened, pretty much.
00:48:48 <Morbus> this is merely a game to further it
00:48:50 <Morbus> hold.
00:48:50 <therethinker> Ah
00:48:58 <Morbus> http://www.gamegrene.com/wiki/Main_Page
00:49:02 <therethinker> I was reading the logs, but it was hard to tell where it started
00:49:05 <Morbus> and then http://www.gamegrene.com/wiki/User:Morbus_Iff/Sojourns_and_Scholars
00:49:31 <Morbus> jsled|lap: so, anyways, players can write whatever they want in their notes/journals. so, yes, they get to select their lines (i.e., write whatever snippet they care about)
00:49:46 <Morbus> as long as most, if not all, of them relate to their next article.
00:50:04 <Morbus> "Hrm. Wonder if that flower tastes good" is entirely fine, for instance.
00:50:12 <Morbus> and then one could write about pollination behavior.
00:50:18 <Morbus> those sorta relate, so great, it's good.
00:50:43 <Morbus> Hell, 'the sky is really blue today' is /also/ good if the final article mentions the affect of sky color or weather or whatever.
00:50:58 <Morbus> but, really, it's up to the GM to make the leap of faith. And to dole out penalities or rewards based on it.
00:51:04 <therethinker> sounds fun
00:51:10 <Morbus> a scholar could certainly fake up his own journal/notes if he wanted to.
00:51:21 <Morbus> that happens in real-life. and the article hte player writes could be entirely different than his notes.
00:51:22 <therethinker> Almost like nomilang...
00:51:36 <Morbus> the GM should allow that, but to some detriment.
00:51:49 <Morbus> (ie., slower advancement in skills, or some such. haven't figured that out)
00:52:23 <Morbus> therethinker: the creator of nomilang was a ghyll player ;)
00:53:01 <therethinker> Yeah, Sean
00:53:16 <Morbus> yep
00:53:45 <therethinker> Did he start ghyll, I noticed the example used him
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00:53:55 <Morbus> sean and i both started ghyll.
00:54:20 <Morbus> he wasn't as fervent as maintaining it as i was
00:54:32 <Morbus> but he was definitely influential in its creation/flavor
00:54:55 <therethinker> Ah
00:55:56 * jsled shifts while eating.
00:56:30 <jsled> How explicit is the XP benefit/detriment? I guess it's ultimately GM-determined.
00:56:52 <Morbus> to some degree. in D&D 4E, XP is gained by killing monsters.
00:57:00 <Morbus> and monsters have defined values for XP.
00:57:02 <jsled> I.e., if they want to publically/privately/not tell people they got docked because they strayed too far afield.
00:57:36 <Morbus> to some degree, i've been thinking of XP like an editor asking for articles.
00:57:53 <jsled> Ah. I should go get the 4E rules this weekend. I think we'll be downtown anyways.
00:57:56 <Morbus> 1 XP per word, with penalties if you wrote something that the editor didn't ask for (ie., your notes didn't match the article)
00:57:58 <jsled> heh.
00:58:19 <Morbus> so, you can actually /lose/ levels in this game.
00:58:26 <Morbus> by writing bad articles, or something.
00:58:29 <Morbus> perhaps. i dunno.
00:58:35 <jsled> Hmm. Could promote un-concise articles.
00:58:40 <Morbus> partially, i see the playing of the game as also /defining/ the game.
00:58:53 <Morbus> i only have partial ideas. needs more practice to really hammer them out.
00:58:59 <therethinker> metanomigame
00:59:00 <Morbus> i can't do a total conversion myself.
00:59:03 <jsled> Or excess, superfluous, repetitive, unnecessary verbiage. :)
00:59:04 <Morbus> yeah, pretty much
00:59:32 <Morbus> i like games where, I, the game host, is as challenged as the player.
00:59:48 <jsled> Hard to see that you wouldn't be, here.
01:00:47 <Morbus> it would certainly be entertaining, yes ;)
01:01:16 <Morbus> anyways, i gotta head afk.
01:01:26 <Morbus> jsled: your continued input/discussion/playing is much appreciated.
01:01:32 <jsled> I got the sense (and this is as much question as statement) that Ghyll was a lot more open-ended, in terms of concept creation and flesh-out. This would seem to have a lot more query of the GM for details.
01:01:38 <jsled> I think that balance will be interesting, actaully.
01:01:44 <Morbus> well, sure.
01:01:55 <Morbus> from the standpoint of Ghyll/Lexicon vs. Ghyll/RPG, they're entirely different.
01:02:09 <Morbus> RPGs, in general, require a lot more query of the GM.
01:02:32 <Morbus> but, i want to encourage the players to change the landscape around them with their articles.
01:02:38 <jsled> Morbus: yeah, I'll try to keep up. :) In any case, I'm glad some previous scriblings are on the right track, so I'll try to get them out tonight or soon. swhack mailing list good, or is there somewhere better?
01:02:40 <Morbus> because I too, as GM, have to abide by their truths.
01:02:54 <Morbus> "In this way, world creation and plot development is shared by both the gamemaster (the Encyclopedant) and his players - players must write articles about the happenings in the world and Encyclopedants must choose one to represent truth, but must then also abide by this player-written truth. It is not uncommon for scholars to collectively agree on a certain fact solely to see its ramifications on consensus reality. "
01:03:06 <Morbus> swhack mailing is just fine, yeah.
01:04:03 <Morbus> meaning that, if all players decided that this particular flower that i described merely as "a flower" was some smart-inducing thing, then I would /have/ to accept that, since it's a truth in each one of hte player's submitted articles (and I, as GM, have to pick one).
01:04:21 <Morbus> but that allows me to add on to those facts, alluding that the flower was also highly mutagenic.
01:04:26 <Morbus> oh, please roll for length of tails, kthnx.
01:04:31 <jsled> heh
01:04:35 <Morbus> that is the sort of fun i want to have ;)
01:05:20 <chandler> I can has critical tail?
01:05:27 <Morbus> hhehe
01:06:09 <Morbus> anyways. afk.
01:06:12 <jsled> lates.
01:06:28 * therethinker nights
01:09:01 <deltab> “20-year downpours may happen every 6 years by 2100” — abc news
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01:35:57 <MoiraA> hi mo
01:36:02 <MoiraA> mahound
01:36:07 <MoiraA> no
01:36:10 <MoiraA> mr
01:36:16 <mahound> hm?
01:36:18 <MoiraA> god sake
01:36:22 <MoiraA> evening mahound
01:36:28 <mahound> evening :)
01:36:29 <MoiraA> you ok?
01:36:32 <mahound> yay
01:36:36 <MoiraA> col
01:36:42 <MoiraA> my tying
01:36:45 <MoiraA> give up
01:36:48 <mahound> lol
01:36:53 <MoiraA> perhaps a new keyboard
01:37:01 <MoiraA> oh Morbus
01:37:05 <MoiraA> just noticed you there
01:37:14 <MoiraA> how are things
01:37:47 <MoiraA> the entire world is leaving
01:37:53 <MoiraA> where is everyone
01:38:05 <MoiraA> I have yahoo bots
01:38:24 <MoiraA> haha
01:38:40 <MoiraA> I somehow have an AIM contact accidentally put in AIM bots
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01:46:02 <MoiraA> it must be I need a new keyboard
01:46:05 <MoiraA> [02:37] * qsbUDDha (~green.bud@c-69-181-177-82.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #everyonedoesit
01:46:05 <MoiraA> [02:40] <Cyclonerotary> yes MoiraA
01:46:05 <MoiraA> [02:41] <MoiraA> hello Q
01:47:41 <nslater> n5h
01:47:42 <n5h> or try connecting via telnet or whatever. so yeah, that doesn't exist. but i'd like to hang in gardens anymore. monty.
01:47:44 <Monty> http://swhack.com/logs/2008-06-20#T00-45-35
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01:49:04 <MoiraA> eek sorry n5h
01:49:05 <n5h> can you ellaborate?
01:49:24 <MoiraA> didn't realise you are talking to a person I unwittingly have on ignore
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01:57:11 <jsled|lap> n5h: why does MoiraA have Monty on ignore?
01:57:12 <Monty> Why do you ask ?
01:57:12 <n5h> or just rely on landa's understanding of mesoamerican astronomy, we must consider the dream/waking paradox to be man. none of that part, and so on.
01:57:31 <MoiraA> erm
01:59:29 *** bsh changed the topic to: "we must consider the dream/waking paradox to be man"
01:59:46 <bsh> My matrices were bigger anyway.
02:01:24 <MoiraA> what is this?
02:09:15 <jsled|lap> oh, n5h is really high on something or other. We just try to interpret as best we can.
02:09:15 <n5h> sbp, i think. yes.
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03:12:27 <Arnia> Old news but: http://code.google.com/p/iphone-haptics/
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03:34:10 <chandler> n5h is high on sbp?
03:34:11 <n5h> ah.
03:34:23 <MoiraA> huh?
03:34:57 <chandler> just reading scrollback
03:35:12 <chandler> alic3!
03:35:12 <alic3> and, after folding his arms round it as you say. it's a very little while--and these.
03:36:34 <MoiraA> readingt
03:36:41 <MoiraA> wonderful n5h
03:36:42 <n5h> huh. what about c-k-like? control-k ? ah. makes sense.
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03:36:58 <MoiraA> have a good trip and don't worry about typing
03:37:04 <MoiraA> chill
03:37:09 <bsh> k
03:37:19 <chandler> I don't think n5h is typing
03:37:20 <n5h> http://www.chinese-forums.com/showthread.php?p=39332#post39332.
03:38:01 <chandler> should probably filter out URLs
03:38:04 <MoiraA> pasting too
03:38:11 <MoiraA> absolutely agree
03:38:22 <chandler> alic3 doesn't have any URLs in her input, fortunately
03:38:22 <alic3> who felt ready to cry about it.
03:38:23 <MoiraA> n5h: dicey pasting links in this state
03:38:24 <n5h> looks like a phone number when you cross/fold your arms.
03:38:31 <MoiraA> what does?
03:38:45 <MoiraA> what about if you then stand on your head?
03:39:01 <MoiraA> it morphs into a prime number?
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03:44:19 <jsled|lap> n5h: what about prime numbers?
03:44:20 <n5h> doubt it. now iz only lvl3. for the entire field of semantig marshland hereabouts. the thing is.
03:44:43 <bsh> hmm semantig marshland
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03:44:51 <jsled|lap> n5h: "now iz"? hardly good english.
03:44:51 <n5h> if you look to the system.
03:45:10 <jsled|lap> n5h: well, yes. The system of the english language.
03:45:11 <n5h> i quit a waiting job i had a week . when i was thinking the other main chemical family is cbds.
03:45:22 <bsh> Yeah fight the establishment n5h
03:45:23 <n5h> do shakes have an arnia-shaped translation device. arnia, ideally, i'd like for there to where i was thinking the other year but forgot to taste any.
03:45:50 <jsled|lap> I forget to taste the years all the time, too, n5h.
03:45:50 <n5h> hawaii, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it. . while in an office environment are particularly pushed to their own ends.
03:46:01 <MoiraA> this is so off
03:46:07 <MoiraA> n5h
03:46:07 <n5h> the sequel?
03:46:11 <MoiraA> this nobody
03:46:24 <MoiraA> in freenode thinks I belong in nofocus
03:58:10 <bsh> http://www.iana.org/assignments/location-type-registry.xml is a bit lolly
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04:29:54 <bsh> now Flash and the classical turbo pascal text mode ui are two things I would not have thought to see together nowadays http://www.f-secure.com/weblog/archives/00001447.html
04:49:47 <MoiraA> n5h
04:49:48 <n5h> hmmmm. when i read are written by "batt/cage. batt initially vowed to fight the suit, even going so far as norwich. but i think it might be the norm.
04:49:51 <MoiraA> how are you doing
04:50:22 <jsled> n5h It's certainly not the norm.
04:50:23 <n5h> http://swhack.com/logs/2004-07-17.
04:51:33 <jsled> wow. Have I really been around here just shy of 4 years?
04:51:37 <jsled> (or more?)
04:51:48 <jsled> WHAT HAVE I DONE WITH MY LIFE?!??
04:52:47 <jsled> .origin jsled
04:52:47 <phenny> jsled: .origin hasn't been ported to my new codebase yet
04:52:52 <jsled> damnit.
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05:27:16 <MoiraA> in justs one moment
05:27:28 <MoiraA> I have a bone to pick with some person
05:29:17 <jsled> it seems to have been one moment.
05:29:22 <jsled> who's that person?
05:31:00 <MoiraA> that said n5h was high
05:31:01 <n5h> :-). aye. lol. call the parent set that "algorithms belongs to. but i have doubts as to the supreme court is he a democrat or a republican?
05:31:05 <MoiraA> and when I saw this bumph
05:31:14 <MoiraA> who was I to argue?
05:31:21 <MoiraA> now selggis
05:31:23 <MoiraA> g
05:31:23 <Monty> but i think it did you have thought to their lines (i.e., write whatever snippet they got docked because winning entries can you ok?
05:31:27 <MoiraA> tells me its a bot
05:31:42 <jsled> selggis
05:31:44 <MoiraA> and I feel dumb giving it advice and wishing it a wonderful trip
05:32:08 <jsled> well, that person was me.
05:32:29 <jsled> (/me wonders what triggered Monty, there.)
05:32:32 <Monty> "In this weekend. I need a person I really blue today' is around.
05:32:46 <jsled> Monty: yes yes. SHUT UP.
05:32:49 <Monty> "Hrm. Wonder if not the Encyclopedant's selection.
05:32:53 <jsled> "
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05:35:17 <jsled> MoiraA: selggis? Who's that?
05:35:26 <MoiraA> sorry
05:35:37 <MoiraA> freenode admins night shift is a joke
05:35:47 <MoiraA> now I know why melodie was impressed with me
05:43:16 <jsled> Anyways, it's too bad. We seem to have a infestation of fucking useless marvok bots like Arn1a and n5h and alic3.
05:43:17 <alic3> and she grew no larger: still it was your age.
05:43:18 <n5h> but ate the cake verses "i ate.
05:43:20 <Arn1a> and always have. nslater: it is in terms of what i'd call functions... kragensitaker: yes... but meaning is possible, and i think is more interesting to see a solution for cite-while-you-write and similar with bibdesk until ms implement applescript event handlers.
05:43:46 <jsled> BUT NOT js1ed.
05:43:54 <jsled> so sad. *tear*.
05:44:45 * MoiraA shakes
05:44:48 <MoiraA> that place
05:44:50 <MoiraA> fush sake
05:44:52 <MoiraA> fuck
05:45:24 <jsled> And: " ' ")" to balance things out.
05:46:39 <MoiraA> sorry
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05:46:44 <MoiraA> Im having a confusing time
05:47:01 <MoiraA> in a place which appears hell bent on job creation
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06:18:33 <MoiraA> ok me
06:18:36 <MoiraA> OH
06:18:39 <MoiraA> erm
06:18:49 <MoiraA> god this is surely not freenode
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06:19:00 <MoiraA> seriously will have to close windows
06:19:27 <slavezombie> I'm curious to know your opinion on a sentence I can't figure out.
06:19:51 <MoiraA> sure
06:19:54 <MoiraA> fire wa
06:19:58 <MoiraA> fire away
06:20:00 <slavezombie> I'm writing a short essay on my favorite movies and how I come about to select which film I decide to see.
06:20:09 <slavezombie> Here is the sentence:
06:20:20 <slavezombie> It’s rare to find actors from dark films in movies that otherwise claimed them to fame.
06:20:32 <MoiraA> well
06:20:56 <MoiraA> you dont get many actors from dark movies
06:20:59 <MoiraA> dark films
06:21:00 <MoiraA> one sec
06:21:08 <MoiraA> I must give this dunce his crack
06:21:11 <MoiraA> and I will be back
06:21:26 <slavezombie> okay, I'm talking about film noir.
06:21:42 <laplink> Why not call it Noir then?
06:21:49 <slavezombie> Specifically, I'm alluding to Joseph Gordon-Levitt
06:22:42 <slavezombie> Done. But will it read better? I'm concerned that I'm not saying what I intend to say
06:23:02 <slavezombie> That Joseph Gordon-Levitt will become famous from his film noir releases
06:23:12 <laplink> I don't think you can do that to the word “claim” (at least not without expecting a fine in several states).
06:23:13 <slavezombie> … and continue to make films in that genre.
06:24:07 <slavezombie> That's right. I think that's the root of the problem. Thanks
06:24:24 <laplink> np
06:25:23 <slavezombie> Um, but what am I saying with "otherwise"?
06:25:41 <slavezombie> Am I just trying to sound hep?
06:26:34 <MoiraA> eek
06:26:51 <slavezombie> It’s rare to find actors from film noir movies that became famous from that genre
06:27:25 <slavezombie> Okay. Thanks. I don't know what I would've done without you!
06:29:07 <laplink> hm
06:29:41 <slavezombie> I dunno. That second question just sounded to me as if I was asking you to write the paper for me.
06:29:41 <Monty> wonderful n5h
06:29:42 <n5h> i find the picture of a new project for a form of trust metrics or likewise.
06:30:20 <laplink> If you're trying to say that actors rarely get famous by playing in Noir movies, try focussing on the fame or the genre rather then the actor in the sentence.
06:33:37 <MoiraA> ee sorry
06:33:39 <MoiraA> slavezombie
06:33:43 <MoiraA> I am here
06:33:50 <MoiraA> I have been having a class time
06:39:02 <slavezombie> laplink: I think you're right. I put it to rest until tomorrow. My deadline isn't til next week. I was thinking along those lines since my taste in movies tend to be a tad girlyish, but that's only because I have an appetite for psychological torment.
06:40:29 <slavezombie> MoiraA: That's understandable. I hope I didn't distract you.
06:40:44 <MoiraA> no
06:40:48 <MoiraA> it was brilliant
06:40:50 <MoiraA> though this
06:40:52 <MoiraA> one sec
06:42:36 <slavezombie> So far I have come up with "It's rare to find good actors in movies containing film noir themes that you can rely on to continue to appear in sinister roles."
06:43:20 <MoiraA> ah this yes
06:43:25 <MoiraA> on the surface
06:43:33 <MoiraA> laplink
06:44:45 <MoiraA> it is simply bad grammar
06:44:54 <slavezombie> REally?
06:44:55 <MoiraA> no deep meaning there
06:44:58 <MoiraA> duh
06:45:11 <MoiraA> it's like people who blame *their* hearing
06:45:22 <MoiraA> when they can't make out the words in a chart song
06:45:25 <MoiraA> crap
06:45:48 <MoiraA> I've studied music to an advanced level and that includes piano, harmony and singing
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06:46:00 <Monty> bah, it's thelsdj_ again
06:46:02 <MoiraA> the are atrocious at articulating their words
06:46:12 <MoiraA> they would be lost without a microphone
06:46:29 <MoiraA> if you can't make every single listener catch all you sing, every word
06:46:33 <MoiraA> then the problem is you
06:46:37 <MoiraA> not their hearing
06:46:55 <MoiraA> look at some of the howlers
06:47:05 <MoiraA> songs people misinterpret
06:47:21 * MoiraA now can't think of any
06:47:33 <slavezombie> Ok. It's hard to stay within the reading level of the general public without losing meaning
06:47:54 <MoiraA> there is that
06:48:03 <MoiraA> but with regard to what slavezombie
06:48:16 <MoiraA> *It's hard to stay within the reading level of the general public*
06:48:20 <MoiraA> leave it
06:49:36 <MoiraA> any meaning is objective
06:49:47 <MoiraA> is that right?
06:49:49 <MoiraA> yes surely
06:49:54 <MoiraA> going brain dead
06:50:06 <MoiraA> subjective is unambiguous right or wrong
06:50:16 <MoiraA> objective can have several "right" solutions
06:50:59 <slavezombie> I will have to spend another week on it before I feel confident to release it to my publisher
06:51:38 <slavezombie> I'm have low self esteem
06:51:51 <MoiraA> heh
06:52:00 <MoiraA> I have so just the answer for you
06:52:11 <slavezombie> OK
06:52:18 <MoiraA> the place you need to be is just nearby
06:52:21 <MoiraA> #defocus
06:52:39 <slavezombie> I'll check it out
06:52:42 <slavezombie> Zzzzzzz
06:53:32 <MoiraA> where you will find -
06:53:39 <MoiraA> well if you sleep maybe not quite
06:55:16 <slavezombie> I'm impelled to ask
06:55:22 <slavezombie> if you aren't an AI
06:55:37 <MoiraA> please do
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06:56:01 <MoiraA> any time this century
06:56:01 <Monty> That Joseph Gordon-Levitt will let them get published in an advanced level and when i both started pulling the howlers
06:56:30 <MoiraA> I will check out a reply in a few years, unless you highligtht me
06:56:42 <MoiraA> but you should try #refocus
06:56:48 <MoiraA> for low self esteem
06:57:01 <MoiraA> it is success to perfection
06:57:06 <MoiraA> and I mean that
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06:57:42 <slavezombie> Many writers have been described as mean
06:58:02 <MoiraA> they have?
06:58:08 <MoiraA> are you a writer?
06:58:30 <slavezombie> no, a typist
06:58:42 <MoiraA> typist?
06:58:46 <MoiraA> do they still exist?
06:58:52 <MoiraA> I was trained to type
06:59:18 <slavezombie> I wish I was a screenwriter
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07:01:34 <MoiraA> oh hell
07:01:46 <MoiraA> I just remembered but I am in the wrong window
07:01:52 * MoiraA switches
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07:27:07 <bsh> lo p
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07:32:00 <bsh> "Of course, there are other factors: we award points for humor value and irony. I have always been impressed with the winner of the 2004 Obfuscated V contest, who concealed an error in a vote-counting program by adding a voter-verifiable paper trail function that overflowed a buffer. That\rquote s evil with style." - http://underhanded.xcott.com/
07:33:02 <bsh> "This [last] year\rquote s challenge: weak encryption" - Debian won that?
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07:47:25 <bsh> .wik Rai stones
07:47:26 <bsh> cool
07:47:26 <phenny> "Rai stones are large, circular stone disks carved out of limestone in the island of Yap, Micronesia." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rai_stones
07:48:24 <bsh> "The trade for rai stones eventually stopped at the beginning of the 20th century due to trade disputes between Spanish and German interests in the area."
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08:23:50 <sbp> yo
08:23:50 <phenny> sbp: 19 Jun 21:23Z <Morbus> tell sbp "It is not uncommon for scholars to collectively agree on a certain fact solely to see its ramifications on consensus reality. "
08:23:51 <phenny> sbp: 00:04Z <bsh> tell sbp http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000QDXZZ8
08:23:53 <phenny> sbp: 00:34Z <Morbus> tell sbp to read logs between Morbus and jsled around this timestamp.
08:26:20 <MoiraA> wahay
08:26:31 <MoiraA> phenny I love you so much
08:26:41 <MoiraA> you lumping great idiot you are a route to escape
08:26:55 <MoiraA> phenny: please tell svp
08:26:59 <MoiraA> no no
08:27:33 <bsh> ur late p
08:27:37 <MoiraA> phenny: please tell sbp could he please join qnet and if he thins I am inventing then this time its not me
08:27:39 <MoiraA> what
08:27:43 <MoiraA> late for?
08:27:45 <MoiraA> huh
08:27:54 <bsh> late, as in, late.
08:28:01 <bsh> for being here, obviously.
08:28:04 <MoiraA> well sorry whoever you re but I cann't do what I am tryhing to
08:28:25 <bsh> well omitting the "please" might help
08:28:28 <MoiraA> phenny: tell sbp that maybe I took acid and didn't notice
08:28:29 <phenny> MoiraA: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
08:28:45 <MoiraA> lost freenode server window now
08:29:55 <sbp> "potato or Christmas cake"
08:29:56 <phenny> sbp: 08:28Z <MoiraA> tell sbp that maybe I took acid and didn't notice
08:30:36 <sbp> I'm not *that* late
08:30:44 <sbp> later than yesterday, admittedly
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09:09:52 <bsh> Hmm I want an arrow like ↪ just going from the right to the top
09:10:48 <bsh> There is even ➥ but not what I want
09:11:04 <sbp> .u arrow pointing leftwards then curving upwards
09:11:05 <phenny> sbp: Sorry, no results for 'arrow pointing leftwards then curving upwards'.
09:11:17 *** bsh is now known as _bjoern
09:11:22 <sbp> .gc "arrow pointing leftwards then curving upwards"
09:11:24 <phenny> "arrow pointing leftwards then curving upwards": 7
09:13:02 <_bjoern> that points at windings, but the windings one is not what I want
09:13:29 <sbp> no equivalent in unicode
09:13:41 <sbp> but there is an arrow pointing rightwards then curving upwards
09:13:46 <sbp> so why no arrow pointing leftwards then curving upwards
09:13:50 <sbp> seems kinda odd
09:13:52 <_bjoern> I would call for Unicode 2.0 if there wasn't one already.
09:13:56 <sbp> hehe
09:13:59 <sbp> Unicode 2
09:14:01 <sbp> er
09:14:04 <sbp> Unicode 2.0 2.0
09:14:08 * sbp kicks the picnic bench key
09:14:10 <_bjoern> Betacode 2.0.
09:14:16 <sbp> ooh, ooh, no
09:14:19 <sbp> Uni -> Duo
09:14:21 <sbp> Duocode!
09:14:25 <sbp> Duocodr
09:14:27 <_bjoern> NO
09:14:28 <sbp> etc.
09:14:30 <sbp> nu?
09:14:37 <_bjoern> no not nu
09:14:41 <sbp> kk
09:14:48 <sbp> well Betacode doesn't make any sense at all
09:14:52 <sbp> there's no Alphacode
09:15:09 <_bjoern> Beta is the second, and BETA OMG
09:15:23 <sbp> what about Duocode Beta?
09:15:57 <_bjoern> Also, isn't it, uno, duo, tres, quattro, ...?
09:16:10 <sbp> yeah, but who ever heard of "Dui"?
09:16:26 <_bjoern> DO U ITSELVES?
09:16:36 <sbp> WHATPLZ
09:16:44 <_bjoern> Well think DIY
09:17:27 <sbp> OOH
09:17:50 <sbp> .gs uni * tri
09:17:52 <phenny> uni * tri: bi (5), form dis (3), feuille unifoliÃe (2), embroidered (2), dual (2), biv1 biv2 (2)
09:18:01 <sbp> Bicode? that's just stupid
09:18:31 <_bjoern> specialcode?
09:18:41 <sbp> explain plz
09:18:49 <_bjoern> universal vs
09:18:57 <sbp> hmm
09:19:07 <_bjoern> polycode!
09:19:10 <sbp> or universe -> galaxy -> solar system
09:19:15 <sbp> ha. I like Polycode
09:19:23 <sbp> Polycode it is
09:19:40 <sbp> P+0001 ARROW POINTING LEFTWARDS THEN CURVING UPWARDS
09:20:01 <_bjoern> (if low gcs are needed, plolycode has none)
09:20:09 <sbp> hehe
09:20:26 <sbp> .gcs unicode duocode betacode bicode polycode
09:20:29 <phenny> unicode (34,100,000), betacode (263,000), bicode (22,900), polycode (1,570), duocode (375)
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09:21:22 <_bjoern> We could then also introduce http porns.
09:21:42 <_bjoern> POlyform Resource Names.
09:21:42 <sbp> what, like http://example.org/O-B-<?
09:21:47 <sbp> oho
09:22:00 <sbp> IRI : URI :: PORN : IRI?
09:22:15 <_bjoern> You are learning Haskell?
09:22:41 <sbp> I would answer {:} [ <-- ++ lols [] {} ? * ?, but I do not know what that means
09:22:57 <_bjoern> it's the thought that counts
09:23:02 <sbp> yeah...
09:23:11 <_bjoern> (at least when you fail so miserably)
09:23:15 <sbp> alright. got any thoughts on P+0002?
09:23:26 <_bjoern> plenty in the logs
09:23:32 <sbp> (just you wait till Germany goes out. if they go out. "well it was the thought that counts")
09:24:00 <sbp> hmm. I made a list somewhere
09:24:02 * sbp looks for it
09:24:04 <_bjoern> (the olympic motto is "Dabeisein ist alles!")
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09:24:34 <sbp> pfft:
09:24:35 <sbp> $ grep -r INTERRO ~www/**/*.txt
09:24:35 <sbp> zsh: argument list too long: grep
09:24:46 <sbp> phenny: "Dabeisein ist alles!"?
09:24:46 <phenny> sbp: "It is of everything!" (de to en, translate.google.com)
09:24:47 <spb> xargs is your friend
09:25:11 <_bjoern> Participation is everything
09:25:14 <sbp> well, or find
09:25:42 * sbp tries $ find ~www -name '*.txt' -exec grep INTERRO {} \;
09:26:00 <_bjoern> .gc polynteresting
09:26:01 <phenny> polynteresting: 0
09:26:03 * sbp adds -H...
09:26:06 <_bjoern> .gc polynformed
09:26:07 <phenny> polynformed: 0
09:27:21 <sbp> okay, none of these are very funny
09:27:42 <_bjoern> yes
09:27:42 <sbp> I like "IRC SEMICOMMA, cf. VIRGULA SUSPENSIVA" though
09:28:48 <_bjoern> We must invent irc tagging beta so we can easily grep the logs for things like polychar proposals.
09:29:20 <spb> sbp: using find | xargs means less unnecessary forking
09:29:46 <_bjoern> find is like totally confusing
09:29:53 <_bjoern> one of the worst commands there is
09:32:56 <sbp> shame I can't use ~www/**/*.txt really. I wonder if there's a way to expand the max number of args allowed in the shell
09:33:10 <sbp> and whether it's a good idea to do that. probably it's just a holdover from 32 KB RAM machines...
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09:33:27 <Monty> bah, it's cre8radix again
09:33:36 <_bjoern> You need a GnuOS X
09:33:53 <_bjoern> gnu philosophy opposes such limits.
09:33:56 <sbp> hehe
09:34:16 <cre8radix> bah, it's still monty
09:34:18 <sbp> I saw a table of this per shell once somewhere
09:34:19 <Monty> anyways, i like ↪ just 40 million miles away, etc.
09:34:46 <sbp> oh here we go, there's a table here:
09:34:47 <sbp> http://www.in-ulm.de/~mascheck/various/argmax/
09:35:23 <sbp> seems an OS limit rather than shell?
09:35:24 <sbp> GNU Hurd - unlimited
09:35:32 <_bjoern> I would bet autoconf configure scripts have 300 lines utterly confusing lines just to accurately detect this limit before you can build your app.
09:36:37 <_bjoern> '''There's a autoconf check "Checking for maximum length of command line arguments...".''' I knew it.
09:36:49 <sbp> hmm. this is weird:
09:36:50 <sbp> $ getconf ARG_MAX
09:36:50 <sbp> 262144
09:37:04 <sbp> there's no way there are more than 262,144 text files in that directory
09:38:19 <_bjoern> You might have had a busy night and forgot all about it.
09:38:52 <sbp> $ find ~www -name '*.txt' | wc -l
09:38:52 <sbp> 11067
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09:42:20 <sbp> .gc petrofap
09:42:21 <phenny> petrofap: 0
09:42:31 <sbp> okay, guess I misheard that company name
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09:48:26 <_bjoern> .u ⅟
09:48:26 <Monty> "you"
09:48:27 <phenny> U+215F FRACTION NUMERATOR ONE (⅟)
09:48:52 <sbp> .u denominator
09:48:52 <Monty> "you"
09:48:52 <phenny> U+09F9 BENGALI CURRENCY DENOMINATOR SIXTEEN (৹)
09:48:58 <sbp> .u denominator f
09:48:59 <phenny> sbp: Sorry, no results for 'denominator f'.
09:49:10 <sbp> ⅟৹
09:55:05 <cre8radix> :D
09:55:29 <cre8radix> :+)
09:57:00 <_bjoern> :↩)
09:58:26 <_bjoern> ∷ - ∵ + ∶ = ∴
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10:02:05 <cre8radix> ahoi
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10:33:43 <deltab> sbp: find -exec grep {} +
10:34:07 <sbp> deltab: yeah, thanks, saw that suggested on the argmax page too
10:34:13 <sbp> do you know what optimisation process it uses?
10:34:15 <deltab> sbp: ** is recursive: how many do you have under that dir
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10:34:20 <deltab> no
10:34:23 <sbp> 11,067
10:34:34 <sbp> *.txt files, that is
10:34:37 <deltab> ah
10:34:44 <nslater> 11:34 -!- Home page for #swhack: http://notabug.com/swhack/
10:34:47 <sbp> so it should be well under the $ARG_MAX limit
10:34:49 <nslater> heh
10:34:52 <sbp> nslater: yeah, old skool!
10:35:01 <nslater> not gonna change it? :)
10:35:04 <sbp> nope
10:35:13 <nslater> haha, fair play
10:35:29 <sbp> a couple of years ago Morbus was looking at one of my Yahoo! Groups
10:35:35 <sbp> and the documentation still talked about egroups
10:35:37 <nslater> yahoo group? no wai
10:35:41 <sbp> which Yahoo! had bought out in 2002 or something
10:35:50 <sbp> yeah, I've had it since 2000. mysterylights
10:36:08 <sbp> the old Swhack FAQ still used to talk about irc.openprojects.net
10:36:13 <sbp> which is what Freenode used to be called
10:36:30 <nslater> heh, wow
10:38:07 <_bjoern> OMG EVERYONE REGISTER A YMAIL.COM ADDRESS NOW
10:40:18 <sbp> nu
10:41:13 <_bjoern> omg NATO vs MPAA http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=6520030203
11:09:46 <MoiraA> oh good
11:09:51 <MoiraA> #swhack|?
11:10:06 <MoiraA> I am turning into a wreck thanks to this place
11:10:16 <MoiraA> you dare not breathe
11:10:25 <MoiraA> unless its a thursday
11:10:31 <MoiraA> or post offtopic
11:11:07 <MoiraA> unless it's tuesday or you are 12 and eat coco pops in sweden in trainers
11:11:19 <MoiraA> it really is THAT FUCKING STUPID
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11:40:12 <nslater> o_O
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11:56:43 <Morbus> hey sbp
12:04:28 *** martiancode (n=martiani@unaffiliated/martiancode) has joined #swhack
12:04:44 <Morbus> .c 28825/1165498 * 100
12:04:45 <phenny> (28 825 / 1 165 498) * 100 = 2.47319172
12:04:53 <Morbus> woot! i just broke into 2.4%!
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12:05:06 *** martiancode is now known as martianixor
12:05:18 <Morbus> sbp: did you a) see the discussion between jsled and I, b) read current wiki?
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12:56:37 <MoiraA> CRAP
12:56:42 <MoiraA> sorry
12:57:08 <MoiraA> that sounded like derek back and me achieving nothing ver
12:57:11 <MoiraA> y
12:57:17 <MoiraA> much
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13:05:45 <Morbus> hahah http://twitter.com/MarsPhoenix/statuses/839088619
13:06:28 <nslater> sweet
13:06:38 <Morbus> literal at http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/06_19_pr.php, but slow.
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13:16:16 <MoiraA> sweet?
13:16:22 <MoiraA> it is awful
13:16:30 <MoiraA> I hope it crashes
13:16:40 <MoiraA> how dare it feel cheerful
13:16:41 <nslater> MoiraA: why?
13:17:06 <MoiraA> I shouldn't ask
13:17:11 <MoiraA> String made that mistake
13:17:14 <nslater> who?
13:17:24 <MoiraA> richard wjho
13:17:27 <MoiraA> nm
13:17:30 <MoiraA> who cares
13:17:44 <MoiraA> I mean to you he is no-one
13:17:52 <MoiraA> but to my he was
13:18:05 <MoiraA> nslater I did warn you
13:18:07 *** saml (n=saml@pool-71-249-115-102.nycmny.east.verizon.net) has joined #swhack
13:18:10 <nslater> about?
13:18:15 <saml> about start up
13:18:25 *** mmmmmrob (n=mmmmmrob@80.195.117.82) has joined #swhack
13:18:25 <MoiraA> huh?
13:18:36 <MoiraA> put it this way
13:18:38 <saml> would you order your food online when you have to confirm by phone?
13:18:55 <MoiraA> maybe
13:18:58 <MoiraA> if it busy
13:19:03 <MoiraA> and it matters
13:19:19 <MoiraA> food is no good here
13:19:32 <MoiraA> as I said nslater
13:19:37 <saml> visit www.myrestaurant.com enter zipcode/address. find a restaurant. place an order. optionally pay with credit card and done. or, enter a phone number. they get back to you. done.
13:19:45 <saml> do you think it's a good buisiness idea?
13:19:45 <MoiraA> if I sent you the
13:20:23 <MoiraA> saml I would rather it sold tons of methamphetamine and methadone mixed wth xanax and temazepam
13:20:43 <MoiraA> with round the clock acid
13:20:58 <saml> i can charge restaurant owners 1000usd/year for their account. all they need is internet access and they have realtime internet order status view
13:21:16 <MoiraA> shrooms maybe sometimes .... that is such a brainwave
13:21:20 <saml> and if i sell it to 100 restaurant, i get 100,000 a year
13:21:28 <aspect> you can't sell shrooms over the internet
13:21:34 <saml> i think i can be rich
13:21:39 <aspect> they need to be delivered unexpectedly by mushroom fairies
13:21:45 <MoiraA> don't tell me what I can or cannot
13:21:47 <MoiraA> do
13:21:56 <MoiraA> because I am idiotic
13:21:59 <saml> i give up
13:22:03 <MoiraA> sam1
13:22:04 <saml> i think it's too hard
13:22:06 <MoiraA> listen
13:22:08 <MoiraA> please
13:22:25 <MoiraA> oh why is there never somene arouind when you need them
13:22:29 <MoiraA> sam1
13:22:44 <saml> they are asleep
13:22:44 <MoiraA> I would so love to drive the entire network away
13:23:00 <saml> what's a good movie to watch thesedays?
13:23:02 <MoiraA> it is child's plan to post rubbish
13:23:15 <MoiraA> into serious channnels
13:23:34 <saml> ah i forgot this was a serious business
13:23:40 <MoiraA> but this place is not worth it they should make it a nursery
13:26:30 <MoiraA> I apologise
13:26:48 <MoiraA> all this just because I'm trying to mention 10MB text files
13:26:56 <MoiraA> in fact I could find out out of interest
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13:44:13 <sbp> saml: who on earth are you?
13:44:20 *** SinDoc (n=SinDoc@128.251-136-217.adsl-static.isp.belgacom.be) has joined #swhack
13:44:40 * sbp baffles at the backscroll
13:45:51 <sbp> heh, wrong command
13:45:58 <nslater> heh
13:46:05 * sbp looks for the jsled S&S discussion
13:46:46 <sbp> ah, http://swhack.com/logs/2008-06-20#T00-24-13
13:47:48 *** sbp changed the topic to: "“This is an incredibly early napkin.”"
13:47:55 <jsled> heh
13:51:40 <sbp> .gc podunkish
13:51:41 <phenny> podunkish: 136
13:51:44 <sbp> .gc podunk
13:51:45 <phenny> podunk: 867,000
13:51:48 <sbp> .ety podunk
13:51:50 <phenny> "'legendary small town,' 1846, originally the name of a small group of Indians who lived around the Podunk River in Connecticut; the tribe name is in colonial records from 1656 (as Potunck), from southern New England Algonquian (Mohegan or Massachusetts) Potunk, perhaps [...]" - http://etymonline.com/?term=podunk
13:52:06 <sbp> .wik Podunk
13:52:07 <phenny> "In American English, Podunk, podunk, or Podunk Hollow has come to denote a place (or sometimes something else) of small size, and is often used, upper-cased, as a placeholder name in a context of dismissing significance or importance." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Podunk
13:54:53 *** SinDoc has quit (Remote closed the connection)
13:56:15 <sbp> okay, much liking S&S so far
13:56:24 * sbp reads the jsled convo now...
13:57:28 * laplink sighs…
13:57:55 <laplink> Four fucking hours to wait in this god-forsaken hole of a town.
13:58:02 <jsled> which?
13:58:10 <laplink> .wik Kirkenes
13:58:11 <phenny> "Kirkenes (help·info) (Finnish: Kirkkoniemi, Sámi: Girkonjárga) is the centre of the municipality of Sør-Varanger in Finnmark county, Norway." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirkenes
13:58:51 *** jeffarch has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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13:59:32 <laplink> Or rather, here: <http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Kirkenes&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=54.093296,90&ie=UTF8&ll=69.718107,30.058594&spn=25.018385,90&z=4&iwloc=addr>
14:01:25 <laplink> I could take a flight that leaves two hours earlier, but then I'd arrive an hour later because it makes five fucking “Technical Stops” on the way.
14:01:40 <sbp> are you outbound or homebound?
14:01:50 <laplink> Homebound, finally.
14:02:30 <laplink> Been travelling all week, so now it's home to spend some quality time being a vegetable for the weekend.
14:03:54 <laplink> Or, hey, I could take the opportunity to go visit nsh while I'm here in the ass-end of nowhere.
14:04:51 <sbp> Morbus: actually I guess that's one of the nice things about continuing it in this way
14:04:53 * sbp refers to:
14:05:00 <sbp> 00:38:15 <Morbus> it reduced collaboration. so pretty early on, i started pulling the map in tighter, killing things that were just 40 million miles away, etc.
14:05:16 <laplink> Context?
14:05:27 <sbp> Morbus: because rather than creating too much new shit, we can describe the old shit in *strange new ways*
14:05:33 <sbp> laplink: http://www.gamegrene.com/wiki/User:Morbus_Iff/Sojourns_and_Scholars
14:05:45 <sbp> idea is to take D&D, make it less combatative, and make a Ghyll game out of it
14:06:27 <laplink> Hmm.
14:06:32 <laplink> Less combative…
14:06:33 <sbp> i.e. with the particular things that Ghyll has to it, such as consensus based reality and the ... well the S&S page describes it best
14:06:40 <sbp> much less, actually
14:06:47 <sbp> the primary element of the game is an intellectual pursuit
14:06:57 <sbp> but, within that intellectuality there's a lot of dark stuff
14:07:18 <laplink> But conflict is a necessary component of games, non?
14:07:24 <sbp> because we're going to be describing all the kinds of bizarre shit that we started in the Ghyll Encyclopaedia. the Ghyll world is very "light" and very "dark" at the same time
14:07:26 <sbp> yes, well
14:07:30 <sbp> I say non-combative
14:07:38 <sbp> but really it's a different kind of combat, indeed
14:07:39 <Monty> http://www.gamegrene.com/wiki/Main_Page
14:07:47 <sbp> all the players are vying to have their research accepted
14:07:53 <laplink> Right. Conflict != Combat, of course.
14:07:55 <sbp> so they're trying to undermine each others' research and that sort of thing
14:08:03 <sbp> Monty: er... thanks
14:08:04 <Monty> Does talking about this bother you ?
14:08:11 <sbp> nope. not at all, Monty...
14:08:11 <Monty> Duocode!
14:08:13 <laplink> Monty: Yes.
14:08:13 <Monty> s/tax//
14:08:20 <sbp> we decided on Polycode
14:08:34 <laplink> .gcs Duocode Polycode Monocode
14:08:37 <phenny> Monocode (2,140), Polycode (1,570), Duocode (375)
14:08:50 <laplink> .gc Anticode Posicode
14:08:50 <phenny> Anticode Posicode: 0
14:08:54 <laplink> .gcs Anticode Posicode
14:08:55 <phenny> Anticode (43,100), Posicode (1,860)
14:09:18 <sbp> .gc Mucode
14:09:19 <phenny> Mucode: 2,780
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14:12:50 <sbp> hmm. I'm still not sure how RfA and journals will interact
14:12:59 <sbp> I guess that's the main detail to hash out at the moment
14:13:04 <Morbus> go ahead
14:13:18 <Morbus> i envision the Federated RfA and journals *not* interacting.
14:13:24 <Morbus> there's two sorts of articles being written.
14:13:26 <sbp> well I'm thinking about the scholars' situations
14:13:34 <sbp> (carry on)
14:13:35 <Morbus> those related to what's happening, and those requested by the GE.
14:13:43 <Morbus> so, we're talking about the scholar's situations, then.
14:13:45 <Morbus> where are you confused?
14:14:03 <sbp> well I'm just wondering how they'll both interact. how I imagine it'll work is like this:
14:14:22 <sbp> * there's a period wherein all the players write occasional fiction about what they're doing in Ghyll
14:14:33 <sbp> * then the EPs put out an RfA, and a deadline
14:14:58 <sbp> * the journals start to reflect not just the ongoing lives of the players, but also their attempts to get info for the RfA and how their article writing is going
14:15:19 <sbp> (probably the funniest phase, because you can imagine them stealing one another's papers, backstabbing, all kinds of stuff. planting false evidence. etc.)
14:15:30 <sbp> * then when the RfA is due, all players post their articles
14:15:40 <Morbus> yeah, but i didn't imagine the journals are being heavy heavy things.
14:15:41 <sbp> * then the EPs rate the RfAs and fashion a Finished Article out of it
14:15:44 <Morbus> like, i wasn't imaginging full blog entries.
14:15:50 <sbp> well sure, it could just be one line
14:15:51 <Morbus> i was imagining more two or three sentences, minimum.
14:15:54 <Morbus> yeah
14:16:07 <Morbus> it's up to the player to decide how much he wants to "reveal", per se.
14:16:12 <sbp> "woke up, fell out of bed, a pachyderm was standing outside just farting its ass off. I couldn't move it, it stood there all day. the house reeks now"
14:17:02 <sbp> but I wonder if that middle phase, just one or two entries about how their research is coming along, might serve as a good "bridge"
14:17:02 <Morbus> sure.
14:17:16 <sbp> like they'll get a bit more practice in about writing more thouroughly about Ghyll
14:17:21 <sbp> before they submit their articles
14:17:33 <sbp> because I expect many people will be playing this for the first time?
14:17:38 <Morbus> yes, i suspect.
14:17:39 <Morbus> at least 2.
14:17:47 <Morbus> gilgamesh and tzuriel have expressed an interest.
14:17:52 <Morbus> jsled did too, and he's not played ghyll before.
14:17:56 <Morbus> and maybe nslater?
14:17:56 <jsled> ayup.
14:18:02 <sbp> so especially for the first round, the very opening gambit, you'd probably have to ramp things up slowly. give people time to read stuff, but also give them excuses to read stuff
14:18:19 <Morbus> sbp: well, remeber, this is an RPG. so it's less about "rounds" and more flee flowing.
14:18:21 <sbp> that's what I'm thinking about. give them excuses to read about stuff
14:18:27 <Morbus> but, yeah, certainly, there'd be handholding.
14:18:37 <sbp> yeah, sure. but I guess that RfAs will give it the structure that it does have
14:18:46 <sbp> for the scholars, I imagine that the RfAs are a Big Deal
14:18:54 <Morbus> so, yeah, the first "here's where we start" would be me, as EP, describing where all the scholars are.
14:18:55 <sbp> their chance to be a famous article writer
14:19:09 <sbp> okay, sounds good
14:19:11 <Morbus> "you're in folktown, after watching the final bindlet ball game of the season. cranee's maulers were arrested by..."
14:19:14 <sbp> hehe
14:19:15 <Morbus> stuff like that.
14:19:19 <Morbus> all described in the encyclopedia.
14:19:28 <sbp> right, so people have to look it up. I see
14:19:49 <sbp> you're going to give me some arcane shit from beyond the moon, aren't you? :-)
14:19:56 <Morbus> ideally, my job as EP is to end each of my posts with something for the players to do
14:20:04 <Morbus> something that they respond to.
14:20:07 <sbp> gotcha
14:20:12 <Morbus> and then i respond to their responses, etc.
14:20:14 <Morbus> typical RPG.
14:20:21 <Morbus> we're just adding in journals and RfAs (mine or otherwise)
14:20:49 <sbp> I think we should call this a SMMORPGUH
14:21:23 <sbp> Scholarly Massively Multiple Online Role Playing Grapes... UH
14:21:34 <sbp> SMMORPGUH
14:21:40 <sbp> this is a detail. I think its important
14:21:42 <jsled> scholar-mutated meandering online rpg ... uh.
14:21:47 <sbp> ooh
14:21:54 <Morbus> heh.
14:22:44 <jsled> I was browsing the Other rules last night … are character classes in or out? Some of them clearly don't fit the Ghyll world, but as-is are written almost exactly for this.
14:23:11 <Morbus> jsled: yes, i think they would be applicable. ideally, all the characters are class Scholar.
14:23:14 <sbp> Character Class: Scholar
14:23:18 <Morbus> but there are different paths that they can take.
14:23:28 <Morbus> (if you have the Other rules, you'll note that each class has "builds" defined)
14:23:47 <sbp> Character Class: Scholar of Orgasmic Rock Climbing
14:23:51 <Morbus> races would be applicable - one could be a Ghyllian, a Pachyderm, and perhaps much later, an Aerle
14:23:58 <sbp> Character Class: Scholar of Pastrami Based Snacktime Beverages
14:24:05 <nslater> Character Class: Scholar of Orgasmic Sock Cooking
14:24:19 <sbp> omg, sock cooking?
14:24:25 <Morbus> Pachyderms would be either a build of Courier or Mejoran.
14:24:27 <Morbus> or some such ;)
14:24:30 <sbp> nslater: you tentatively interested?
14:24:35 <nslater> yeah, then you do live videos of people cooking socks
14:24:36 <jsled> I mean, you could fit almost any of them save fighter in … the Monk on a quest for Truth. The Paladin searching for history relating to ey's Diety.
14:24:54 <jsled> s/ey/eir/. whatever.
14:25:06 <Morbus> jsled: well, i don't think i'd want to use them like that. because, really, those things are very very steeped in combat.
14:25:13 <sbp> eir?
14:25:18 <Morbus> as words, yeah, sure. but the Other archetypes of them are killkillkill
14:26:18 * jsled gets all Spivak up in sbp's face.
14:26:48 * sbp -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spivak_pronoun -> ugh
14:27:06 * sbp gives jsled permission to use Spivak pronouns in the form of a spork in the face
14:27:30 <sbp> (cf. http://www.gamegrene.com/wiki/King_Harandraff_the_Great etc.)
14:27:57 <nslater> sbp: not sure, writing is hard for me, and takes ages, and my brain kernel is already swapping out :p
14:28:26 <sbp> nslater: as Morb says, it'd be of the form of a few sentences every now and then, at first
14:28:37 <sbp> and when you have to submit an article, you could do what I ended up doing
14:28:45 <sbp> and basically just putting words together at random
14:29:00 <sbp> for my second article, I interviewed Monty in the guise of a Ghyll character
14:29:01 <Monty> Participation is your arms.
14:29:06 <nslater> lawl
14:29:13 <Morbus> http://www.gamegrene.com/wiki/Bureau_of_Forgotten_Knowledge
14:29:17 <sbp> one of them was just a list of song titles, like 120 of them or something
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14:29:19 <Morbus> (in there <g>)
14:29:37 <nslater> mebbe then, still not sure of the format of the game, the forum posts thing confuses me
14:29:53 <Morbus> yeah, the next section i'm working on is a "Example of Play".
14:29:56 <sbp> http://www.gamegrene.com/wiki/Songs_of_Odgar_The_Fourth for that one
14:29:59 <Morbus> those tend to explain things much much better
14:30:02 <sbp> yeah
14:30:05 <sbp> we did that for Ghyll
14:30:09 <Morbus> yeah
14:30:21 <sbp> a little list of instructions on the homepage telling people exactly how to proceed
14:30:28 <sbp> very handy, don't think anybody had to ask what to do after that
14:30:56 <jsled> lisppaste2: url?
14:30:57 <lisppaste2> To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/swhack and enter your paste.
14:31:36 <sbp>
14:31:36 <sbp> 44. A Song For Daisy
14:31:36 <sbp> 45. A Song For Brandi
14:31:37 <sbp> 46. A Song For Daisy Again (Sorry Daisy)
14:31:37 <sbp>
14:31:42 * Morbus snickers
14:32:04 <Morbus> i don't suppose anyone has "Johnnie Ray - Cry" or "Patti Page - I Went To Your Wedding" as mp3s? ;)
14:32:09 <Morbus> they're taking forever to coem through donkey.
14:32:17 <sbp> hmm, don't think so
14:32:29 <sbp> nope, sry
14:32:52 <lisppaste2> jsled pasted "play e.g." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/62549
14:32:59 <jsled> Morbus sbp: ^
14:33:15 <jsled> That was my musings from last night before we talked, along those lines.
14:33:44 <Morbus> yes, that's how a PBP/RPB tends to work, yeah.
14:33:45 <sbp> .gc "Farokian Device"
14:33:46 <phenny> "Farokian Device": 0
14:33:48 <Morbus> yes, that's how a PBP/RPG tends to work, yeah.
14:34:00 <Morbus> jsled: inventing tools of the trade, that's a good idea too.
14:34:13 <lisppaste2> jsled annotated #62549 with "Farokian Device" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/62549#1
14:34:24 <sbp> ...chuckle
14:34:35 <jsled> Uh. Between those two paragraphs is where we talked.
14:34:44 <Morbus> jsled: yeah, exactly regarding your second paste.
14:34:51 <sbp> jsled: http://www.gamegrene.com/wiki/Cartographer%27s_Nerves
14:34:52 <Morbus> once you mentioned the FD, you opened it up for /anyone/ to write about it.
14:34:54 <sbp> did you see that article yet?
14:34:57 <Morbus> you certainly could, but so could someone else.
14:35:07 <sbp> that was one of the most innovative and interesting of the Ghyll entries
14:35:09 <Morbus> and if you both wrote about it, an argument could occur about which entry is more accurate.
14:35:14 *** cskaterun has quit ()
14:35:14 <jsled> no. Excellent. I should have just searched for "cartograph".
14:35:46 <Morbus> jsled: may i use this paste in the wiki page later tonight?
14:36:06 <jsled> Morbus: sure.
14:36:23 <sbp> http://www.gamegrene.com/wiki/Orthogonalities is a must read on the mapping front too
14:37:09 <sbp> and of course http://www.gamegrene.com/wiki/WhereIsWhere
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14:39:41 <Morbus> http://www.gamegrene.com/wiki/Mother_Mutton%27s_Golden_Books
14:39:50 <Morbus> i enjoy my article for that quite nicely.
14:39:55 <Morbus> and is another example of consensus reality.
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14:40:11 <Morbus> and sbp, contains a jab at *English*! ;)
14:40:19 <Morbus> (first sentence)
14:41:43 <sbp> chuckle, yeah. I remember you working on Mother Mutton
14:42:23 <Morbus> the book in question being a Ghyll version of Plato's allegory of a cave ;)
14:42:35 <sbp> aye
14:42:41 <sbp> spiced up somewhat
14:42:49 <sbp> Plato definitely didn't tell it like *that*...
14:42:53 <nslater> would the new game be set in ghyll?
14:42:56 <sbp> Mother Mutton beats Plato's arse
14:42:56 <Morbus> nslater: yes.
14:43:02 <nslater> with all the existing history?
14:43:04 <Morbus> yes.
14:43:10 <nslater> wow, thats gonna be hard for new players
14:43:11 <Morbus> it'd start in 2 EC
14:43:23 <Morbus> nslater: no harder than any other roleplaying game that starts with a world history.
14:43:28 <Morbus> like D&D's Forgotten Realms, or Dragonlance, etc.
14:43:30 <Morbus> or homebrew.
14:43:44 <sbp> a bit like Phyllis and Aristotle, perhaps
14:43:48 <nslater> okay, harder for new vs. old, I guess
14:44:26 <sbp> http://myra.hem.nu/costume/images/HousebookMaster/LL(FiledtKoko1985)/MH.AristotlePhyllis(LLcat54).jpg
14:44:33 <sbp> there's Phyllis, riding Aristotle like a horse
14:45:52 <Morbus> nslater: sure.
14:46:09 <Morbus> nslater: but i'm not hugely worried about that. that should be part of the regular back and forth questions involved in a roleplaying game.
14:46:14 <nslater> sure
14:49:29 <Morbus> now i just need johnnie ray cry
14:49:52 <_bjoern> We could be mean to him.
14:50:06 <_bjoern> FOR A PRICE of course.
14:50:06 <Morbus> heh. the song ;)
14:50:19 <sbp> being mean is lvl 5, 10 CAD
14:50:22 <sbp> or one duck
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14:53:33 <Morbus> NP: 'Because Of You' from Tony Bennett's album 'Billboard Top 30 Of 1951'; Unrated; http://longboredsurfer.com/charts.php?year=1951
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15:04:53 <Monty> But what does BigJibby__ have to do with the price of fish?
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15:16:26 <Morbus> now i need Johnnie Ray-Walkin' My Baby Back Home
15:19:12 <Morbus> got it. yay.
15:19:16 <Morbus> 1952 is complete!
15:21:36 <sbp> all the number ones?
15:21:52 <Morbus> billboard top 30
15:21:58 <Morbus> http://longboredsurfer.com/charts.php?year=1952
15:22:02 <sbp> awesome
15:22:03 <Morbus> i have 1951 and 52 complete.
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15:22:13 <Morbus> i have two major torrents that collects a bunch of 'em.
15:22:18 <Morbus> both have broken files, though.
15:22:23 <Morbus> so i'm slowing rebuilding pristine copies.
15:22:25 <Morbus> i don't have anything before 1951 though
15:23:20 <sbp> wow, Lonnie Donnegan's Rock Island Line made the Billboard top 50 in 1956?
15:23:22 <sbp> that's surprising
15:23:32 <sbp> (er, one n)
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15:25:11 <Monty> yo laplink!
15:25:27 <laplink> Fucking hell. And Internet access is spotty too.
15:26:01 <_bjoern> How is fucking hell like?
15:33:56 <Morbus> NP: 'I Get Ideas' from Tony Martin's album 'Billboard Top 30 Of 1951'; Unrated; http://longboredsurfer.com/charts.php?year=1951
15:33:58 <Morbus> that song's great. hahah.
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15:38:40 <laplink> _bjoern: Just about as pleasant as it sounds.
15:42:09 <sbp> The Hell of Fucking
15:42:29 <sbp> the demons don't even have the damned courtesy to give you a reacharound
15:54:56 <Morbus> NP: 'Sweet Violets' from Dinah Shore's album 'Billboard Top 30 Of 1951'; Rating: 4/5; http://longboredsurfer.com/charts.php?year=1951
15:54:57 <Morbus> is great too
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16:23:33 <_bjoern> Well it does sound rather pleasant if you ask me...
16:28:43 <_bjoern> .title http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9Bjs99A0k0
16:28:45 <phenny> _bjoern: YouTube - origami with DaVinci robot
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16:39:08 <Vasily> it looks like it's human-controlled
16:40:05 <_bjoern> it's very unimpressive for the most part.
16:40:32 <_bjoern> .title http://mdn.mainichi.jp/national/news/20080619p2a00m0na012000c.html
16:40:35 <phenny> _bjoern: Suicides in Japan top 30,000 for 10th year in a row - Mainichi Daily News
16:42:28 <_bjoern> .title http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/04dfa24c-3db6-11dd-bbb5-0000779fd2ac.html?nclick_check=1
16:42:28 <Monty> loggy: uri?
16:42:28 <loggy> http://swhack.com/logs/2008-06-20#T16-42-28
16:42:30 <phenny> _bjoern: FT.com / Home UK / UK - US N-weapons parts missing, Pentagon says
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17:22:11 <cre8radix> _bjoern: http://cre8radix.net/audio/radio_sickurity_mstr3.mp3
17:22:13 <_bjoern> Normal people raise from the dead. I raise to the dead.
17:22:14 <cre8radix> n_joy
17:22:25 <_bjoern> I am very afraid of mp3s
17:22:31 <_bjoern> They usually are most disturbing
17:22:37 <cre8radix> well the wav is 400MB
17:22:42 <_bjoern> But I shall download and listen later
17:22:58 <cre8radix> radio:sickurity
17:23:04 <cre8radix> in german
17:23:13 <_bjoern> sounds unhealthy
17:23:16 <cre8radix> about sick...you're ET
17:23:24 <_bjoern> who isn't.
17:23:30 <cre8radix> right
17:23:40 <cre8radix> 'tis teh audioplay i did
17:23:52 <cre8radix> most recent one
17:24:11 <cre8radix> featuring schäuble, merkel, foobar and others
17:24:31 <_bjoern> Hier gibts erstmal gleich ordentlich Pommes und Steaks und Pilze und Sosse und Majo.
17:24:40 <cre8radix> mjamjam
17:24:42 <_bjoern> Und Steakgewürzsalz vielleicht, das muss ich noch entscheiden.
17:24:48 <_bjoern> Aldi-Bier natürlich
/MH.AristotlePhyllis(LLcat54).jpg){kind=link}