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01:18:52 <zachb> Hmm... now to write a Quining program in HackVM...
01:19:40 <kpreid> start with a quoting routine...
01:19:47 <kpreid> .g nomilang
01:19:50 <phenny> kpreid: http://inamidst.com/topic/nomilang
01:21:19 <zachb> I think I know what I'm gonna do ;-)
01:21:43 <zachb> kpreid: should be fun ;-)
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01:32:26 <zachb> if someone writes HVM /in/ HVM -- now that would be awesome
01:32:36 <zachb> it'd be like PyPy!
01:34:47 <Arnia> Or... like GHC?
01:35:09 <Arnia> or... the mono C# compiler
01:35:24 <zachb> Yes!
01:35:28 * Arnia describes zachb as a co-monad
01:40:34 <kpreid> Arnia!
01:40:39 <Arnia> kpreid!
01:40:57 * Arnia forms a Kleisli algebra out of him
01:41:12 <kpreid> I've got a random math question, which I shall ask you; okay?
01:42:11 <Arnia> k
01:42:40 <kpreid> Is y=x^3 increasing (or monotonic)?
01:43:29 <Arnia> Yes
01:43:33 <Arnia> All odd functions are
01:43:48 <Arnia> uh, no that's not true
01:43:55 <kpreid> Uh...all odd power functions?
01:43:55 <Arnia> E_RETRACTION_OF_FAIL
01:44:17 * Arnia uses his patent pending fail retraction device
01:44:26 <Arnia> Very handy with hasty statements
01:44:41 <kpreid> I have encountered a claim to the contrary, which is why I asked
01:44:53 <Arnia> (sorry, a bit distracted; my housemate has guests around and they're talking about dildos for some reason)
01:45:04 <selggig> dildos?
01:45:15 <Arnia> Mahogany ones
01:45:21 * Arnia shrugs
01:45:24 <selggig> and they distract you
01:45:51 <kpreid> so he's distracting swhack with them
01:46:22 <selggig> they are a distraction worthy topic, kpreid
01:46:33 <Arnia> indeed... they're now playing with my syringe
01:47:12 <Arnia> x^3's inflection point is at x=0
01:47:42 <Arnia> At that point, the rate of change is 0, and the rate of change of the rate of change is 0
01:47:58 <Arnia> So, the function goes entirely flat at x=0
01:48:19 <Arnia> The function has another zero at x=0
01:48:26 <Arnia> (with the same properties)
01:48:49 <Arnia> as does the differential
01:49:21 <Arnia> Therefore, there is no minima or maxima, just an inflection point which doesn't alter the direction of the original function
01:49:31 <Arnia> Therefore, the function is monotonic
01:49:38 <Arnia> Please check my reasoning :/
01:50:10 <clsn> The inflection point does not change things; it still counts as monotonically increasing.
01:50:33 <Arnia> I know... I was explaining why in this case we can be sure that the function in monotonically increasing
01:50:38 <kpreid> Arnia: I can't check it, I don't have the knowledge. But the conclusion I entirely agree with
01:50:49 <kpreid> I have been given the definition of increasing (or decreasing) as:
01:51:01 <clsn> If someone claims the contrary, simply ask for two values, x1 & x2, such that x1<x2 and f(x1)>f(x2)
01:51:12 <kpreid> ...what clsn said.
01:51:19 <kpreid> except f(x1)≥f(x2)
01:51:38 <kpreid> (that is, f(x1)<f(x2) iff x1<x2
01:51:58 <clsn> Yes, I was giving conditions for a counterexample, whihc would not allow equality.
01:52:00 <kpreid> And it seems to me that x^3 has no such contradictory pairs.
01:52:19 <kpreid> if f(x1)=f(x2) then it isn't increasing
01:52:43 <kpreid> So I figure that either they're wrong or this point or I've got a lie-to-children.
01:53:43 <kpreid> clsn, Arnia: thanks for the info
01:56:01 <Arnia> Well, if I've gotten my calculus right, you can prove there can be no such point just by pointing to the zeros of 3x^2 and 6x
01:56:23 <clsn> well, yeah...
01:56:37 <clsn> You can also just LOOK at the graph and do proof by gesticulation.
01:56:46 * kpreid giggles
01:56:52 <Arnia> heh
01:57:10 <kpreid> retort: "gee, it looks like a horizontal line there"
01:57:32 <clsn> I think even if it is horizontal it probably could still count as monotonically interesting.
01:58:21 <clsn> i.e. if there is a region [x1,x2] such that f(x) is constant over it, f(x) still could be monotonically increasing.
01:58:33 <Arnia> If he's confusing strict with normal monotonicity?
01:58:42 <kpreid> Uhh
01:58:52 <Arnia> Strict monotonicity has less than rather than less than or equal to
01:59:17 <clsn> You're probably right.
01:59:37 <clsn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monotonically_increasing
02:00:39 <clsn> *blink*. I wrote "monotonically interesting" above. Oops.
02:00:40 <kpreid> I think I'm intending to ask about stricctly increasing
02:01:05 <clsn> g "monotonically interesting"
02:01:10 <clsn> .g "monotonically interesting"
02:01:11 <phenny> clsn: http://www.springerlink.com/index/JM8215623345631T.pdf
02:01:14 <clsn> .gc "monotonically interesting"
02:01:15 <phenny> "monotonically interesting": 1
02:01:25 <clsn> Youch. Googlewhackblat.
02:02:22 <kpreid> "A function f is increasing on an open interval I if, for any choice of x_1 and x_2 in I, with x_1 < x_2, we have f(x_1) < f(x_2)."
02:02:55 <kpreid> That's your "strictly increasing" right?
02:03:02 <clsn> Sounds like it,
02:03:12 <Arnia> For most concepts in order theory, one distinguishes normal and strict versions
02:03:16 <kpreid> Okay, is x^3 strictly increasing?
02:03:20 <Arnia> No
02:03:27 <kpreid> Okay, so I was wrong
02:03:57 <clsn> x^3 *is* strictly increasing, isn't it?
02:04:15 <clsn> It has a *point* of zero slope, but no two points with the same value.
02:04:22 <Arnia> hm... that's true
02:04:36 <clsn> every real number has a unique real cube root.
02:04:39 <Arnia> Although I'd need to understand more about limits to answer surely
02:04:55 <kpreid> yeah, I was thinking that if there's a counterexample there is surely a limit in it
02:04:56 * clsn draws the graph again and gesticulates wildly.
02:05:51 <clsn> For any finite, or even infinitesimal, difference between x1 and x2, so long as x2>x1, f(x2)>f(x1)
02:06:12 <Arnia> E_USE_OF_INFINTESIMALS
02:06:31 * Arnia casts a surreal number over clsn
02:06:32 <clsn> That's why it's a POINT of inflection and not a "line segment" of inflection.
02:07:10 *** kpreid changed the topic to: "<clsn> You can also just LOOK at the graph and do proof by gesticulation."
02:08:14 <Arnia> Yeah, but I'm into abstract nonsense remember
02:08:24 * Arnia plays with arrows some more
02:08:34 <Arnia> non-axiomatic arrows
02:08:53 <zachb> Awesome new topic
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02:23:53 <zachb> Whoo! I'm making some progress
02:23:58 <zachb> 93+c0^p2?4c!9998+++c**+P0^7?07-7-g$01299119912395299$
02:24:16 <zachb> the part inbetween the 2 $'s is the main data, except the first 0
02:24:37 <zachb> its in groups of 4, the first digit is added to the product of the next 3
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02:24:52 <zachb> the data in there is just meaningless testdata
02:25:03 <kpreid> and what does the program do to the data?
02:25:28 <zachb> Oh, as of now, it outputs the ASCII, then the numbers themselvse
02:25:38 <zachb> so that will print: '7R#99259321991199210
02:26:01 <kpreid> sounds a good plan
02:26:18 <kpreid> I like print+quote quines (as you can probably tell by my quine list)
02:26:42 <zachb> Oh, but it prints the data backwards as of now
02:26:48 <zachb> (the numbers)
02:26:58 <zachb> Oh yeah, those are cool
02:27:08 <zachb> I love error quines
02:27:24 <zachb> When you use an error message as the program, which then will give out the error message
02:28:24 <kpreid> h> if
02:28:24 <swhask> Parse error
02:28:28 <kpreid> h> Parse error
02:28:34 <swhask> Not in scope: data constructor `Parse'
02:28:45 <kpreid> h> Not in scope: data constructor `Not'
02:28:46 <swhask> Parse error
02:28:49 <kpreid> :(
02:30:00 <zachb> Haha! Doesn't work in Haskell
02:30:28 <kpreid> actually there's a bit of error processing which is specific to lambdabot, so it's this particular environment
02:30:47 <zachb> I was just about to say that
02:30:48 <kpreid> so try again with GHC or Hugs or Yhc :-)
02:30:57 * zachb breaks out the hugs
02:31:31 <Arnia> I prefer GHCi to Hugs :/
02:31:45 <Arnia> But then again, I've had to teach using WinHugs
02:32:01 <Arnia> Not a pleasant experience... finicky
02:33:13 <zachb> Anything with "win" in it is destined to lose
02:33:32 <zachb> ...hahaha! That's a pun!
02:33:53 <zachb> that should be a slogan or something!
02:34:08 * Arnia removes zachb from causality for a while in Red Dwarf fashion
02:34:32 <zachb> Seriously though? Isn't it awesome?
02:34:37 <Arnia> no
02:34:42 <zachb> why not?
02:35:53 <selggig> because Arnia said so
02:36:06 <zachb> ...you're no fun
02:36:21 <Arnia> As sbp remarked earlier, I do strive to shuffle the universe until things fit :p
02:36:34 *** zachb changed the topic to: "Anything with "win" in the name is destined to lose. Its the topic now. Deal with it."
02:36:58 *** Arnia changed the topic to: "zachb fails at topics"
02:37:19 *** kpreid changed the topic to: "topic fails as topic"
02:37:40 *** zachb changed the topic to: "using /join to set a topic is stupid"
02:38:05 <zachb> (true story)
02:38:17 <zachb> Well, I'm off chaps!
02:38:29 <zachb> Nice almost talking to you!
02:38:41 <zachb> Feel free to actually be intellectual now!
02:38:47 <zachb> I won't inturrupt
02:39:08 <selggig> night zachb
02:39:34 <Arnia> zachb: but I find the baseness sexy... *makes a pouty face under the ton of slap he's wearing*
02:39:35 <kpreid> h> transpose ["night","zachb"]
02:39:44 <swhask> ["nz","ia","gc","hh","tb"]
02:39:55 <kpreid> h> (unwords.transpose) ["night","zachb"]
02:39:58 <swhask> "nz ia gc hh tb"
02:40:04 <Arnia> h> transpose $ concat ["night", "zachb"]
02:40:07 <swhask> Couldn't match `[a]' against `Char'
02:40:21 <Arnia> uh, those should of course be flipped
02:40:24 * Arnia sighs
02:40:31 <Arnia> Tired Joe
02:40:57 <selggig> he's a new G.I. Joe?
02:40:57 <Monty> DO U AND IRCing
02:41:05 <kpreid> h> (unwords.transpose.words) "hello world"
02:41:09 <swhask> "hw eo lr ll od"
02:41:20 <kpreid> h> (unwords.transpose.words) "he's a new G.I. Joe?"
02:41:24 <swhask> "hanGJ ee.o 'wIe s.?"
02:41:32 <selggig> o.O
02:42:03 <Arnia> Han GJ
02:42:35 <Arnia> h> import qualified Network.URI as U
02:42:35 <swhask> Parse error
02:42:40 <Arnia> hm?
02:42:49 <kpreid> exprs only
02:42:59 <Arnia> Oh
02:43:10 <Arnia> h> let x = "Oh"
02:43:11 <swhask> Parse error
02:43:19 <kpreid> that's not an expression :)
02:43:22 <kpreid> @let x = "Oh"
02:43:29 <kpreid> !let x = "Oh"
02:43:34 <swhask> Defined.
02:43:39 <kpreid> > L.x ++ "o"
02:43:46 <kpreid> h> L.x ++ "o"
02:43:50 <swhask> "Oho"
02:43:58 <kpreid> (newer versions drop the L. prefix; I haven't updated it ltely)
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03:32:40 <_bjoern> yo
03:35:25 <selggig> 'lo _bjoern
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04:03:55 <_bjoern> sqlite> select word from swhack, swhackwords where swhack.id = swhackwords.line and nick like "%sbp%" order by time desc limit 50;
04:05:03 <_bjoern> ah that's not what I wanted
04:06:44 <_bjoern> Hmm do I need an inner select to select only the first occurence of each word?
04:07:38 <_bjoern> like grouping by word giving the min date, then join the result?
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05:16:51 <_bjoern> lisppaste2: url?
05:16:51 <lisppaste2> To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/swhack and enter your paste.
05:17:18 <lisppaste2> _bjoern pasted "shitrude adoption" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/62694
05:33:45 * _bjoern tries to recall whether SELECT 1 + 2 AS three, three * 4; is supposed to work...
05:49:56 <_bjoern> sqlite> select nick, min(time) as min, max(time) as max, count(*) as count, (strftime('%s', max(time)) - strftime('%s', min(time))) / (60*60*24) as dur from swhack group by lower(nick) order by dur desc;
05:49:56 <_bjoern> sbp 2001-07-25 20:43:34 2008-04-03 20:05:00 303236 2443
05:49:56 <_bjoern> Morbus 2001-08-31 03:16:05 2008-04-03 17:18:45 83894 2407
05:49:56 <_bjoern> deltab 2001-08-31 01:02:10 2008-04-02 23:36:34 14034 2406
05:49:56 <_bjoern> tav 2001-08-31 23:07:21 2008-03-18 22:16:55 5993 2390
05:49:58 <_bjoern> MorbusIff 2001-10-24 21:12:58 2008-03-24 12:49:22 1847 2342
05:50:00 <_bjoern> AaronSw 2001-07-25 20:43:48 2007-12-12 19:31:21 66467 2330
05:50:02 <_bjoern> GabeW 2001-10-02 06:09:23 2008-01-29 20:43:16 5531 2310
05:50:04 <_bjoern> ...
05:51:48 <tav> woo!
05:52:05 * tav wonders if he can sell his stake somehow
05:52:23 <_bjoern> You could sell the nick!
05:52:57 <tav> . o O (how much would an ebay auction raise?)
05:53:11 <tav> perhaps i could sell my entire internet presence
06:09:13 <xover> Lisppaste it?
06:10:09 <lisppaste2> @xover pasted "nu" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/62697
06:13:54 <xover> “eom”?
06:15:13 <_bjoern> I think some people put that in email subject lines when the message body only has fullquote + signature + disclaimer.
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07:28:43 <cre8radix> heya
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08:00:55 <Monty> Thank goodness, libby is back!
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08:02:05 <Monty> Speak of the devil, it's leobard!
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08:13:55 <thelsdj> "Ronin, The Rock, Bourne Identity, these are just a few of the movies he hasn't worked on." - In reference to Top Gear stuntman
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09:08:08 <Monty> Thank goodness, cre8radix is back!
09:16:57 <sbp> yo
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09:22:21 <sbp> phenny: tell zachb YO
09:22:21 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when zachb is around.
09:22:42 <sbp> 01:45:04 <selggig> dildos?
09:22:42 <sbp> 01:45:15 <Arnia> Mahogany ones
09:25:45 <d3llboy> hi
09:26:17 <cre8radix> yo!
09:26:34 <_bjoern> data:text/html,♥
09:27:15 <sbp> .title http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/06/19/tumble_dryer_bites_woman/
09:27:16 <phenny> sbp: Tumble dryer bites woman in Weston-super-Mare | The Register
09:27:25 <sbp> .title http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/06/18/exploding_thong/
09:27:26 <phenny> sbp: US woman sues over exploding thong | The Register
09:27:35 <sbp> El Reg has some good titles recently
09:28:04 <_bjoern> .title tagDVTARGETDEVICE
09:28:05 <phenny> Can't connect to http://tagDVTARGETDEVICE
09:28:13 <_bjoern> FIAL
09:28:15 <_bjoern> .title http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/jun/03/fingerprints.bullets
09:28:17 <phenny> _bjoern: Fingerprints recovered from bullets after firing | Science | guardian.co.uk
09:28:36 <_bjoern> .title http://www.wired.com/culture/art/news/2008/06/secret_satellites
09:28:37 <phenny> _bjoern: Photographer Documents Secret Satellites -- All 189 of Them
09:28:38 <cre8radix> sbp: "And the IT angle? There is no IT angle. Yes, we're turning into the Sun. Yes, we'll all go to hell. Thank you."
09:28:42 <cre8radix> hrhr
09:31:03 <sbp> [[[
09:31:03 <sbp> "The National Reconnaissance Office cannot classify Kepler's laws of planetary motion," Paglen says. "They just work ... and they're unbelievably accurate."
09:31:04 <sbp> ]]]
09:32:37 <sbp> when I was at school I learned that planets can only orbit in ellipses
09:32:47 <sbp> and I thought that was kinda weird, surely the most natural form would be a circle?
09:32:59 <sbp> it was only later I learned that that was bullshit
09:33:07 <sbp> things can orbit in any conical section
09:33:33 <_bjoern> .gs draussen stehen die * sich die füsse platt
09:33:34 <phenny> draussen stehen die * sich die füsse platt: No results!
09:33:35 <sbp> the conical section is a purdy concept
09:33:52 <d3llboy> except a hyperbola?
09:34:10 <d3llboy> because that is not an orbit
09:34:39 <sbp> yeah. or a parabola
09:34:40 <sbp> [[[
09:34:41 <sbp> Kepler's First Law of Planetary Motion says that the orbits of the planets are ellipses, with the Sun at one focus of the ellipse. As reformulated by Newton, the First Law says that the orbits may be any kind of conic section, with the Sun at one focus of the section. In practice, however, all planetary orbits must be ellipses, because objects in parabolic or hyperbolic orbits would go around the Sun once, go out into interstellar space, and never return.
09:34:46 <sbp> ]]] - http://cseligman.com/text/history/ellipses.htm
09:35:16 <sbp> the kind of bollocks I got taught in school still amazes me
09:35:30 <sbp> like the science teacher who said that earth is the heaviest planet in the solar system
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10:33:58 <_bjoern> .gc "individuell kann ich am besten allein sein"
10:33:59 <phenny> "individuell kann ich am besten allein sein": 75
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11:10:20 <Monty> lo kpreid
11:10:20 <Monty> howdy, tro
11:10:20 <Monty> bah, it's bancus again
11:10:20 <Monty> Thank goodness, jsled is back!
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11:10:42 <Monty> But what does Xanthor|aw have to do with the price of fish?
11:10:43 <Monty> hi phenny
11:10:45 <Monty> welcome, wrldpc
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11:11:30 <phenny> Hi Monty
11:11:35 <Monty> laplink: http://www.gamegrene.com/wiki/User:Morbus_Iff/Sojourns_and_Scholars
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11:17:18 <_bjoern> sux
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11:23:07 <Monty> howdy, andreaja
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11:33:18 <_bjoern> OMG WE LOST SBP
11:33:28 <_bjoern> I shall use this opportunity and say:
11:33:39 <_bjoern> ... And URIs should really be XML documents.
11:34:11 <spd> we did?!
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11:34:55 <_bjoern> Hello sozialdemokratische partei deutschlands.
11:35:16 <_bjoern> You don't look too shabby for your 150+ years.
11:35:28 <spd> well thank you kindly
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11:40:52 <Monty> But what does SinDoc have to do with the price of fish?
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12:02:06 <Morbus> .
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12:05:09 <tobbez> .title http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7468855.stm
12:05:11 <phenny> tobbez: BBC NEWS | Technology | 'Shake up' for internet proposed
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12:19:22 <nslater> Arnia: this paragraph really blew me back:
12:19:23 <nslater> [[[
12:19:37 <nslater> These parallel evolutions have produced designers for interactive machines (conventional software) and designers for static page layouts (conventional websites). From this viewpoint, the chimeric effects of convergence are almost to be expected. The emerging “interactive web” embraces a ludicrously mixed metaphor of machines on pages, a monstrous hybrid of virtual mechanical affordances printed on virtual paper. Information is trapped behind ...
12:19:43 <nslater> ... interactive mechanisms and presented in static layouts—it is the worst of both worlds.
12:19:46 <nslater> ]]]
12:26:29 <nslater> "The industrial design literature, incidentally, seems to consist primarily of photographs of chairs. I don’t know what this means."
12:26:33 <nslater> hahaha
12:27:42 <nslater> Arnia: I also think I might look at getting some of Tufte's books from Amazon today :)
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12:50:47 <jeffarch> aloha
12:50:54 <sbp> yo
12:52:08 <Arnia> nslater: cool :)
13:04:46 <nslater> Arnia: it concerns me that his proposed system for interprocess communication doesnt, even once, touch on privacy or security concerns. I don't want websites or 3rd party software knowing the content of my emails or my browsing habits
13:05:14 * Arnia wraps nslater in a capability
13:05:19 <nslater> another concern is that having applications being aware of such high levels of context would be firmly in my uncanny vally, not sure how that might change over time though
13:08:33 <nslater> as an aside, I find it ammusing how in his example an email is marshalled from RFC822 to XML before being handed off to the operating system
13:08:57 <nslater> amusing but depressingly acurate, probably
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13:16:41 <Arnia> .wik capability security
13:16:42 <phenny> "Capability-based security is a concept in the design of secure computing systems." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capability_security
13:16:51 <nslater> *click*
13:25:18 <nslater> .dict obsolete
13:25:19 <phenny> obsolete - 1. not used any more, 2. out-of-date
13:26:12 <nslater> this paper describes C and UNIX as obsolete, which is highly contentious
13:27:41 <Arnia> nslater: I think ACL-style security is pretty out of date, personally
13:28:39 <nslater> I wasnt meaning to make any suggestions about the implementation, so sorry for the confusion. I just know that there is areas of my computing that I don't want talking to other areas, and the mind boggles how you would administer that.
13:28:51 <nslater> s/is/are/
13:30:54 <nslater> sorry, to add to that, there are areas of my environment that I wont always want my computer to be handing out
13:33:05 <nslater> sorry, I dont want to be a naysayer, this is fascinating stuff, and in all fairness perhaps the author has specifically avoided discussion the privacy aspects :)
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13:39:12 <Arnia> Right, off to the house viewing
13:39:16 <Arnia> Speak soon
13:39:19 <nslater> ooh, have fun
13:45:36 <Arnia> Yeah... anyway, I have some thoughts about the 'UI' for managing this stuff, but they're still quite raw
13:46:01 <Arnia> I'll chat more about them when I get back
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14:42:14 <nslater> woo, so it looks like Java is pretty much 100% free now
14:42:57 <Jibbler> for strange definitions of "now"
14:43:34 <nslater> explain please?
14:44:16 <nslater> [[[
14:44:17 <nslater> On November 12, 2006, I wrote Java Is Free, about the GPL’ing of the Sun Java source code. It was a good day. The job wasn’t 100% finished then, because there was encumbered code we couldn’t GPL. As of today, it’s pretty well done.
14:44:21 <nslater> ]]] - http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2008/06/20/Free-Java
14:45:13 <Jibbler> http://developers.slashdot.org/developers/08/06/23/034213.shtml
14:45:58 <nslater> not sure what your point is
14:47:11 <sbp> perhaps he doesn't have a point, only a blunt
14:47:20 <nslater> aha
14:50:00 <nslater> wow, I'm reading the weblog of someone who's building a new website in C#
14:50:03 <nslater> what has the world come to
14:52:27 <nslater> "If ppl only read the w3c spec they could understand how robust (X)HTML is. Most only use a fraction of its resources. We have created many a false social meme about markup."
14:52:41 * nslater choxelles
14:53:00 <nslater> "And lastly XHTML is an application. Where HTML is markup."
14:53:02 <nslater> oh mang
14:57:58 <selggig> lol
14:58:19 <selggig> did those few lines catch your attention, sbp?
15:11:02 <sbp> hellos!
15:11:37 <sbp> horrors
15:11:41 <sbp> .gc "We have created many a false social meme about markup"
15:11:41 <phenny> "We have created many a false social meme about markup": 2
15:11:45 <sbp> .g "We have created many a false social meme about markup"
15:11:46 <phenny> sbp: http://www.b-list.org/weblog/2008/jun/21/xhtml/
15:12:22 * sbp wonders why nslater was reading such stuff in the first place
15:12:59 <jsled> It's making the rounds.
15:13:01 <sbp> ah, it's an enumeration of lolsome comments on a cluefulesque website
15:13:04 <jsled> Er. Making the Rounds.
15:13:12 <sbp> Oh Yeah? Sweet
15:14:19 <sbp> “Since XHTML 1.0 was a tag-for-tag and attribute-for-attribute identical reformulation of HTML 4.01 into XML, I have a tough time understanding this one.” - this isn't true, by the way; there were actually minor fixes and differences
15:14:45 <sbp> I mean, e.g. I think some of the attribute value specifications changed
15:15:32 <sbp> though that doesn't detract from his point. I don't think the number is different (could be wrong on that too... there was some strange stuff in XHTML 1.0/1.1/m12n at review stage)
15:18:35 <zachb> hey sbp
15:18:36 <phenny> zachb: 09:22Z <sbp> tell zachb YO
15:19:06 <zachb> I was reading your... uhh rambling essays, and there was a program you were talking about, a markdown language... let me try finding it...
15:21:12 <zachb> Avocet!
15:24:44 <nslater> rambling essays? how rude
15:25:01 <zachb> hehe
15:25:19 <zachb> "This is a set of notes about all kinds of stuff including etymologies, HTML tips, design patterns, and so on. Just various notes on all kinds of topics."
15:25:31 <zachb> I believe its okay for me to call those rambling essays
15:26:10 <nslater> I think the word "ramble" is heavily negitively weighted
15:27:08 <clsn> Yeah, but I'm not sure sbp would disagree with the assessment, or find it insulting.
15:27:15 <nslater> sbp: cluefullesque, perhaps, though this is the guy who quoted one line of Saint-Exupery out of context before declairing the whole of minimalism "bullshit"
15:28:28 <zachb> "cluefullesque?" what the hell is "cluefull"?!
15:28:55 <nslater> full of clue
15:29:00 <nslater> jeez
15:29:12 <clsn> clueful being opposite of clueless.
15:29:22 <nslater> zachb: dont make sbp have to get out his cluesword
15:29:23 <Monty> here where i won't, we'll see infrared and some ivory tower RDF exercise
15:29:32 <nslater> ha
15:29:32 <clsn> Kind of like Morley Safer, the news anchor. The opposite of Leslie.
15:29:38 <nslater> both of those are quotes of me
15:31:22 <nslater> sbp: whats your cluesword called again pls?
15:31:36 <nslater> sbp: also, stop inventing cool stuff that I cant remember the name for
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15:31:50 <zachb> Oh, is "-esqueness" a valid suffix?
15:31:57 <zachb> Yeah, I know, sbp: is annoying like that
15:32:03 <clsn> How about inventing stuff but not naming it.
15:32:06 <zachb> YES
15:32:25 <nslater> this always makes me laugh: http://www.phobe.com/tp/clue.html
15:33:02 <nslater> sbp: see above for lols ^^
15:33:38 <zachb> not really
15:33:46 <zachb> it got a "huh" out of me
15:33:56 <nslater> well, you dont know what cluefull is so I highly doubt you know what a cluestick is
15:34:07 * clsn thinks he needs a clue.
15:34:13 <nslater> suffice it to say, it's a stick with which you beat the clue into someone with
15:34:14 <clsn> Or clew.
15:34:17 <clsn> .gd clew
15:34:17 <zachb> Yes
15:34:26 <nslater> funnyly enough, I am of need of one right now
15:34:28 <clsn> .dict clew
15:34:30 * nslater winks
15:34:30 <zachb> Oh, by the way, who's interested in playing nomilang?
15:34:39 <clsn> Hrm.
15:34:44 <phenny> clew: a ball of yarn or cord or thread
15:34:45 <zachb> sometime in the near future... I need to round up a group...
15:34:45 <phenny> clew - 1. ball of thread, 2. corner of fore-and-aft sail
15:34:50 <clsn> Ah there we go.
15:34:56 <clsn> It's cognate with "clue".
15:34:57 <zachb> .gd clough
15:34:59 <nslater> yeah
15:34:59 <phenny> clough: A paddle, or small door, used to control the flow of water through a lock or weir.
15:35:07 <nslater> some serious punnage possible there
15:35:19 <clsn> Like the story of Ariadne and Theseus. A clew to find your way out. That's where "clue" came from.
15:35:25 <clsn> .dict clue
15:35:26 <phenny> clue - 1. aid in solving mystery, 2. aid in solving crossword
15:35:26 <nslater> wow
15:35:30 <clsn> .gd clue
15:35:31 <phenny> clue: hint: a slight indication
15:35:35 <nslater> .ety clue
15:35:36 <phenny> "phonetic variant of clew (q.v.) 'a ball of thread or yarn,' with reference to the one Theseus used as a guide out of the Labyrinth." - http://etymonline.com/?term=clue
15:35:41 <clsn> See?
15:35:43 <nslater> wow
15:35:50 <nslater> clsn: you just won the internet
15:35:56 <zachb> why?
15:36:01 <zachb> You didn't know that?
15:36:01 <sbp> nslater: cleowsticca. and I don't "get it out", I *brandish* it
15:36:08 <nslater> hahaha
15:36:17 <nslater> sbp: does this mean you are always carrying it?
15:36:18 <sbp> also I take everything from zachb as an insult, regardless of its content
15:36:25 <nslater> yeah, as do I
15:36:28 <zachb> :D
15:36:29 <clsn> I just won the internet! I'm going to disneyworld...?
15:36:30 <nslater> did you see the photo of the cluestick?
15:36:32 <sbp> I'm not entirely sure of the mechanics of cleowsticca...
15:36:35 <sbp> nope?
15:36:40 <nslater> http://www.phobe.com/tp/clue.html
15:36:47 <sbp> zachb: did you have a question about Avocet?
15:37:02 <clsn> Avocet sounds like a prescription pain-relief medication.
15:37:04 <zachb> Yes, is it available somewhere?
15:37:07 <zachb> I believe it is
15:37:10 <zachb> .wik Avocet
15:37:10 <sbp> most straunge
15:37:11 <phenny> "The four species of Avocets are waders in the same avian family as the stilts." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avocet
15:37:15 <sbp> .g site:inamidst.com Avocet
15:37:16 <phenny> sbp: http://inamidst.com/proj/avocet/
15:37:16 <nslater> I think I might make a mock up of that clue stick and hang it on my wall
15:37:23 <sbp> zachb: did you not try that? :-)
15:37:30 <zachb> I couldn't find it!
15:37:35 <nslater> coincidentally, I was browsing the swhack ML and saw the thread in which it was named
15:37:36 <clsn> Still sounds like a pain reliever.
15:37:42 <sbp> -> .g site:inamidst.com Avocet <- first result
15:37:50 <nslater> zachb == fail
15:38:02 <zachb> You know what...
15:38:08 <nslater> probably
15:38:15 * sbp beclues zachb with the mighty cluefulness of cleowsticca
15:38:27 <zachb> ...google was broken last night?
15:38:29 <nslater> oh man, cleowsticaa
15:38:41 <nslater> zachb: yeah, someone was upgrading the internets
15:38:47 <nslater> 3.0 now
15:38:54 <sbp> everything is more awesome in Anglo-Saxon
15:38:54 <clsn> They had to replace the hamsters.
15:39:02 <nslater> and pidgeons
15:39:16 <sbp> also 'ellos clsn
15:39:16 <nslater> and not of the avian carrier type
15:39:41 <zachb> so yeah, nomilang anyone? I had an idea...
15:39:51 <zachb> I had to take an asprin, but I think that means its good!
15:39:57 <clsn> I'm stalling, I should be going to help my wife in her office. With the newly-freed-from-school kids.
15:40:35 <zachb> heh
15:40:49 <zachb> are they out for the summer?
15:41:48 <clsn> Yes.
15:42:40 <clsn> "Beyond the glass castle, they didn't see Arthur's valour." Challenge: say that so it rhymes with "deep"
15:49:15 <nslater> this reminds me of a word I coined and subsiquently became enamoured with between the ages of 12-15, "pointfull", which I would exclaim, sarcastically, given any situation I found annoying or displeasurable, which, being a young teenager, was quite often
15:49:25 <nslater> ... I should totally start using it again
15:49:31 <nslater> XHTML!? Pointfull!
15:49:54 <zachb> Haha
15:50:26 <nslater> Jeez, zachb is still here? Pointfull!
15:51:03 * zachb is made up of voxels, not points
15:51:45 <kpreid> clsn: ?
15:51:57 *** nslater changed the topic to: "Swhack: Pointful!"
15:51:58 <kpreid> is this a ghoti thing or what?
15:53:04 <zachb> no...
15:53:39 <clsn> No, translating a poem.
15:53:46 <kpreid> aah.
15:53:54 <kpreid> that-semantically
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15:55:19 * zachb is lost
15:55:24 <clsn> Yep.
15:56:09 <zachb> so seriously, no one wants to join me in the nomilang experiment?
15:58:06 <zachb> Whoo! My Quine program's coming along great!
15:58:40 <zachb> crap
15:59:11 <nslater> what language?
16:04:03 <zachb> HackVM... its brainfuckesque
16:04:25 <zachb> http://www.hacker.org/hvm/
16:04:30 <zachb> kpreid implemented it in haskell...
16:05:18 <zachb> but yeah... it was so close to being done, then I lost it
16:12:13 *** _bjoern (n=bjoern@dslb-084-056-220-082.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #swhack
16:12:13 <Monty> bah, it's _bjoern again
16:12:19 <_bjoern> nu Monty.
16:12:19 <Monty> more two
16:12:24 <_bjoern> yah
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16:17:51 <Monty> hi BigJibby__
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16:27:11 <_bjoern> hmm http://blogs.technet.com/mmpc/archive/2008/06/20/taterf-all-your-drives-are-belong-to-me-1-one.aspx
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16:43:29 * nelix wonders if anyone else thought a more readable version of regex would be awesome
16:44:00 <sbp> yes, Larry Wall
16:44:15 <sbp> see perl6's regexp syntax
16:44:24 * nelix looks
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16:45:17 <_bjoern> aptly named thus
16:45:20 <_bjoern> .wik Perl 6 rules
16:45:21 <phenny> "Perl 6 rules are Perl 6's regular expression, pattern matching and general-purpose parsing facility, and are a core part of the language." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perl_6_rules
16:46:10 <nelix> i guess its kinda better...
16:46:16 <nelix> ['http://nelix.id.au/test',re.compile(r'(?sx)<p\b[^>]*>(.*?)</p>',re.DOTALL)]
16:46:21 <nelix> looking pretty ugly
16:46:59 <_bjoern> You should not attempt to process html with regexn.
16:47:01 <nelix> (i'm making a notification system to let me know when lecture times change, but somehow got distracting making the all knowing check the url for changes via regex system)
16:47:27 <nelix> well, the system should idealy process more than html
16:47:49 <nelix> i should make the match object accept things other than regex really
16:48:06 <_bjoern> You need a duckslot.
16:48:19 <nelix> .wik duckslot
16:48:20 <phenny> Can't find anything in Wikipedia for "duckslot".
16:48:27 <nelix> .g duckslot
16:48:27 <phenny> nelix: http://swhack.com/logs/2008-03-05
16:48:41 * _bjoern wonders whether he can connect it to Duck typing...
16:48:45 <sbp> duckslot requirement level: high
16:49:19 <_bjoern> "duckslot.jpg $5 entire lot of Duck's - Ceramic Lot image by rctack. Email & IM Direct Link HTML Code IMG Code. $1 each Flin. ..."
16:49:35 <sbp> woah, only a dollar per flin?!
16:49:54 <nelix> hmm duckslots seem to be some kind of meme i do not understand
16:49:56 <_bjoern> That's, like, ... is the dollar value still positive?
16:50:05 <sbp> ooh, good question
16:50:10 <sbp> .c 1 USD in EUR
16:50:11 <phenny> 1 U.S. dollar = 0.646245315 Euros
16:50:15 <sbp> barely, yes
16:51:54 <nelix> i was debating regex with my comp sci friend
16:52:04 <nelix> hes like "there can be no back tracing in regex"
16:52:26 <nelix> and my reply was that regex is not regular expressions
16:52:27 <sbp> in perl6 you can choose the level of backtracking allowed
16:52:32 <nelix> he was pretty confused
16:52:32 <sbp> using the : and :: and ::: operators
16:52:41 <sbp> yeah, you're right
16:52:53 <sbp> guess he's not much of a comp scier
16:53:20 <sbp> or his brainbunnies have been huffing nutmeg
16:53:25 <nelix> well i guess that's why he is at university
16:53:30 <sbp> either way, really
16:53:41 <sbp> eh, they don't teach you things at university
16:53:47 <nelix> of course not
16:54:01 <selggig> mmm nutmeg
16:54:05 <nelix> well not directly
16:54:23 <sbp> at undergraduate and lower postgraduate level they're more into testing
16:54:49 <sbp> at higher postgraduate level... you're back to huffing nutmeg
16:54:54 <nelix> i fucked my camera lens today
16:54:57 <nelix> i have no idea how
16:55:19 <nelix> its like jammed and wont zoom without a far bit of force and multiple tries
16:55:26 <sbp> what make and model?
16:55:32 <nelix> nikon d70
16:55:33 <sbp> does it still have a warranty?
16:55:51 <nelix> nikkor af-s 18-70mm
16:55:54 <nelix> nah
16:55:58 <sbp> pwnt
16:56:04 <nelix> eh
16:56:08 <nelix> i can just buy a new lens
16:56:09 <sbp> bit of grit in the mechanism or something?
16:56:12 <nelix> for a zillion dollers
16:56:15 <sbp> heh
16:56:16 <nelix> i reckon grit
16:56:25 <nelix> i will get another lens
16:56:33 <nelix> and keep this for its static zoom
16:56:49 <nelix> i can force it in a few secconds of trying
16:56:58 <nelix> but its too slow for anything real
16:58:21 <nelix> sbp: ever get wikipedia returning 403 forbidden errors?
16:58:32 <sbp> “Along the way, he is attacked by a giant fish”
16:58:34 <sbp> — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Tobit
16:58:41 <sbp> nelix: not at the moment, clearly
16:58:46 <nelix> yeah
16:58:51 <nelix> well i'm not
16:58:55 <nelix> and my phenny instance is not
16:59:01 <nelix> but my own urllib code is
16:59:23 <nelix> but mine is running under python 3000
16:59:32 <nelix> i blame the new fangeled urllib
16:59:52 <nelix> took me ages to realise why all my code was broken due to the new module structure
17:00:14 <sbp> try changing the UA string
17:01:16 <nelix> self.version = 'Mozilla/5.0 (What)'
17:01:23 <nelix> but maybe this does not work in the new module
17:02:59 <sbp> well, check the source
17:03:47 <nelix> rgr
17:04:53 <nelix> # TODO(jhylton): Make this work with the same global opener.
17:04:53 <nelix> _urlopener = None
17:06:44 <sbp> .gc ALBDA
17:06:45 <phenny> ALBDA: 1,050
17:06:47 <sbp> .wik ALBDA
17:06:48 <phenny> Can't find anything in Wikipedia for "ALBDA".
17:18:16 <_bjoern> .gs Darauf kannst du Gift nehmen oder * fragen.
17:18:18 <phenny> Darauf kannst du Gift nehmen oder * fragen.: björn (4)
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17:27:40 <_bjoern> danbri++
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17:39:28 <nelix> gaaah wtf have they done to urllib
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17:40:48 <_bjoern> loggy: pointer?
17:40:48 <loggy> http://swhack.com/logs/2008-06-23#T17-40-48
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17:41:43 <_bjoern> Seems sbp didn't read the 11:33 text. Good.
17:42:23 <nelix> i see,
17:42:39 <nelix> urllib's urlopen got overwriten with that from urllib2
17:42:47 <nelix> in the merging
17:43:41 <sbp> choxelles
17:43:59 <sbp> .wik XRI
17:44:00 <phenny> "eXtensible Resource Identifier (abbreviated XRI) is a scheme and resolution protocol for abstract identifiers compatible with Uniform Resource Identifiers and Internationalized Resource Identifiers, developed by the XRI Technical Committee at OASIS." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XRI
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17:48:54 <_bjoern> instant lol:
17:48:57 <_bjoern> The IESG has no problem with the publication of 'An Internet Transition
17:48:57 <_bjoern> Plan' <draft-jcurran-v6transitionplan-03.txt> as an Informational RFC.
17:49:11 <_bjoern> oh wait
17:49:18 <_bjoern> less lol
17:49:22 <_bjoern> I read "has a problem"
17:49:38 <_bjoern> either way though less phunny if you chexx the content.
17:50:09 <nelix> fixed. *curses new urllib*
17:50:27 <_bjoern> use shotgun;
17:51:37 <nelix> _bjoern: whats a ductslot
17:53:01 <_bjoern> I should watch some MacGyver episodes before answering.
17:53:33 <selggig> nelix, duckslot
17:53:38 <_bjoern> no
17:54:31 <_bjoern> I would .swhack ductslot but I don't want to see the HTML 2.0 code again.
17:55:27 <nelix> google tells me it's some kind of pvc fititng
17:55:38 <nelix> for managing wires?
17:56:37 <nelix> photobucket is very scary
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18:18:48 <nslater> hello nelix
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18:20:10 <Arnia> hmm
18:20:29 <Arnia> House is smaller than I thought it would be
18:21:00 <Arnia> No freezer, bizarrely, let alone a dishwasher (the fridge is huge though)
18:22:03 <Monty> since theres a 10 months and basically a player can't really spanked RU game? I shall use these scholars want websites or Massachusetts) Potunk, perhaps there *will*, however, be the solar system
18:22:08 <nslater> shut it foo'
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18:27:29 <Arnia> Oh, this is clever: http://www.groceryzen.com/
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18:40:11 <Arnia> This is cool, but seems a tad pointless to me right now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SC6FFoTq05Y
18:40:47 <nslater> have you seen live maps? just looking at durham via google maps, but live is SO much better
18:42:20 <Arnia> Yeah I know
18:42:20 <Monty> :-). aye. lol.
18:42:26 <nslater> ha
18:42:26 <sbp> lol Monty
18:42:29 <Monty> excellent. I mostly didn't ask about prime number?
18:42:31 <Arnia> It is depressing how old the Google Maps coverage is
18:42:35 <sbp> you mostly did not
18:42:43 <nslater> birds eye view is fantastic
18:42:51 <sbp> [[[
18:42:52 <sbp> THEY tell how Atys, wild with love,
18:42:52 <sbp> Roams the mount and haunted grove,
18:42:52 <sbp> Cybele's name he howls around,
18:42:52 <sbp> The gloomy blast returns the sound!
18:42:52 <sbp> Oft too, by Claros' hallow'd spring,
18:42:54 <sbp> The votaries of the laurell'd king
18:42:56 <sbp> Quaff the inspiring magic stream,
18:43:00 <sbp> And rave in wild prophetic dream.
18:43:02 <sbp> But frenzied dreams are not for me,
18:43:04 <sbp> Great Bacchus is my deity!
18:43:06 <sbp> Full of mirth, and full of him,
18:43:08 <sbp> While floating odours round me swim,
18:43:10 <sbp> While mantling bowls are full supplied,
18:43:12 <sbp> And you sit blushing by my side,
18:43:16 <sbp> I will be mad and raving too --
18:43:18 <sbp> Mad, my girl, with love for you!
18:43:20 <sbp> ]]] - Anacreaon, Ode XII; transl. Moore
18:43:22 <sbp> argh. Anacreon
18:43:47 <nslater> hmm
18:44:23 <Arnia> I want to play with geosocial stuff now though :)
18:45:19 <nslater> seen fireeagle?
18:45:19 <Monty> I have not seen "fireeagle?" say or do anything during my arduous lifetime on this IRC server.
18:46:04 <nslater> sbp: how good is As You Like It? there's an open air performance in the Minster Gardens soon
18:46:12 <sbp> superb. I loves it
18:46:14 <Arnia> Yeah
18:46:37 <nslater> oh cool, it's day time too, "bring blanket, pinic and friends" - I might try to get some others interested
18:46:45 <sbp> as long as someone good is playing Rosalind, wins
18:47:09 <nslater> judging by the costumes in the flyer, it MIGHT be a modern interpretation of it, not sure
18:47:14 <nslater> ... will have to get more details
18:47:58 <nslater> sbp: ever been to the Minack?
18:48:02 <sbp> nope
18:48:09 <nslater> know what it is?
18:48:21 <nslater> http://www.minack.com/
18:48:25 <sbp> yeah
18:48:31 <sbp> been very close, but didn't go to the theatre
18:48:37 <nslater> went a few years ago, absolutely bloody amazing
18:48:39 <sbp> (well, been to Land's End, like most people)
18:48:45 <sbp> cool. what did you see there?
18:49:03 <nslater> went to a night time show, the lighting, the atmosphere, the sound of the ocean down below
18:49:16 <sbp> what play?
18:49:33 <nslater> I think it was much ado about nothing, but it was some time ago, my memory is hazy
18:49:41 <sbp> 'k
18:50:27 <sbp> people should stage more of the others
18:50:34 <nslater> hmm?
18:50:42 <sbp> Jonson, Nashe, Peele, Lodge, Kyd, Marlowe, Dekker, Chettle, Munday, Chapman...
18:50:53 <nslater> hmm?
18:51:04 <sbp> the other Elizajacobean playwrights
18:51:08 <nslater> oh right :)
18:51:11 <sbp> the anonymous plays too
18:51:21 <sbp> Knack to Know a Knave might go down well
18:51:46 <nslater> also, there is a Jazz In The Cemetary night on soon, which sounds, interesting
18:52:49 <sbp> there was an open-air AYLI done here a couple of years ago
18:53:00 <sbp> but I didn't get to attend it, which was a shit. was in a wonderful location too
18:53:01 <sbp> oh well
18:53:08 <sbp> actually... wonder if they're doing it again this year
18:53:10 * sbp checks
18:53:57 <nslater> they just did AYLI at the minack :(
18:54:09 <sbp> oh man, Twelfth Night. ultrawins
18:54:16 <sbp> Arnia's favourite play
18:58:17 <procto> phenny: "ich bin ein berliner"?
18:58:18 <phenny> procto: "I am a Berliner" (de to en, translate.google.com)
18:58:35 <procto> sbp: translate on my phenny broke, is there a patch/update?
18:58:43 <sbp> yes
18:58:53 <earle> phenny: "wir sind das roboter"?
18:58:53 <sbp> download http://inamidst.com/phenny/modules/translate.py
18:58:54 <phenny> earle: "we are the robots" (de to en, translate.google.com)
18:58:56 <sbp> for wins
18:58:58 <procto> sbp: thanks
18:59:02 <sbp> yw
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19:01:50 * Arnia looks forward to Saturday
19:02:32 <sbp> what are goings on on yᵉ day of Saturne?
19:04:01 <sbp> hmm... þͤ
19:04:18 <sbp> yᵉ is prettier
19:04:29 <sbp> do't for yᵉ luls!
19:04:38 *** sbp changed the topic to: "Swhack: do't for yᵉ luls!"
19:05:27 <nslater> pointful
19:05:50 <sbp> whatte sayest þou?
19:07:10 <nslater> .u þ
19:07:11 <phenny> U+00FE LATIN SMALL LETTER THORN (þ)
19:07:26 <nslater> thorn hm? means "th"?
19:07:34 <sbp> pretty much, yeah
19:07:48 <sbp> there's a kind of probably incorrect rule that eth is voiced th and thorn is voiceless th
19:07:48 <Monty> (a kind
19:07:50 <nslater> .u ᵉ
19:07:51 <phenny> U+1D49 (No name found)
19:08:00 <nslater> superscript e?
19:08:04 <sbp> yeah
19:08:12 <nslater> weird it has no name
19:08:16 <sbp> technically MODIFIER LETTER SMALL LATIN E MANG or whatever
19:08:24 <sbp> well it's not in phenny's version of unicode
19:08:28 <sbp> it's in a more recent version
19:08:50 <nslater> isn't it more correct to use "y" instead of "th"?
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19:09:05 <sbp> more correct by what metric? (also, no)
19:09:22 <sbp> y was a late typographical convention for thorn
19:09:29 <nslater> well, I thought that "y" used to be used where we use "th" now, though with the same pronounciation
19:09:30 <sbp> and it came to supplant it
19:10:00 <nslater> at the time y was used for thorn, was y already in use as y
19:10:08 <sbp> yeah
19:10:15 <nslater> what a weird thing to do then
19:10:23 <sbp> y is mochel auncient
19:10:33 <nslater> .dict mochel
19:10:34 <phenny> nslater: Sorry, no definition found.
19:10:38 <nslater> didnt think so :)
19:10:58 <sbp> “With the introduction of printing, the letter Y was used by Caxton and other printers in England to represent the letter thorn (Þ, þ) which was lacking from continental typefaces, resulting in the use of ye for the word the.” - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y
19:11:02 <sbp> mochel is Middle English...
19:11:10 <nslater> aaah
19:11:22 <nslater> so, when did the letters th get used instead of y instead of thorn?
19:11:58 <nslater> also, why do we still use th instead of thorn?
19:12:54 <sbp> [[[
19:12:55 <sbp> The modern digraph th began to grow in popularity during the 14th century; at the same time, the shape of thorn grew less distinctive, with the letter losing its ascender (becoming similar in appearance to the old wynn (Ƿ, ƿ), which had fallen out of use by 1300) and, in some hands, such as that of the scribe of the unique mid-15th century manuscript of The Boke of Margery Kempe, ultimately becoming indistinguishable from the letter Y.
19:13:00 <sbp> ]]] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9E
19:13:23 <sbp> which is why Caxton chose Y as the typeface replacement
19:13:24 <nslater> also, unrelated, it annoys me GREATLY when you hear a lyricist use "unfurl" simply because they cant think of anything else to rhyme with "world"
19:13:34 <sbp> hehe
19:13:44 <sbp> hurled, curled...
19:13:58 <nslater> usually something like "let the flags unfurl"
19:14:02 <nslater> or some other trite shite
19:14:10 <nslater> .gc "flags unfurl"
19:14:11 <phenny> "flags unfurl": 3,310
19:14:35 <nslater> .gc "trite shite"
19:14:36 <phenny> "trite shite": 431
19:14:48 <selggig> lol
19:14:59 <nslater> INTERNETS: please note that you should start using "trite shite" more, thanks
19:14:59 <Monty> potty mouth!
19:15:15 <sbp> like, "the internets is trite shite"?
19:15:20 <nslater> yeah
19:15:31 <nslater> yo me
19:15:33 <nslater> damn
19:15:35 <nslater> tabfail
19:15:37 <nslater> yo selggig
19:15:44 <selggig> hallo
19:16:09 <selggig> you can type mel if it's easier than remembering what my current nick is
19:16:35 <sbp> .title http://briem.ismennt.is/2/2.11/2.1.4.eth.htm
19:16:36 <phenny> sbp: How to make an eth
19:16:49 <sbp> yo mel
19:17:04 <nslater> also, its not the only word that makes me think the song writer was lazy, herse is another one
19:17:13 <sbp> what about orange?
19:17:18 <sbp> bet they don't even use that one
19:17:32 <nslater> if you can find ONE example "herse" being used to rhyme that wasn't due to obvious lazyness, I will give you internets
19:17:55 <nslater> or "funeral pyer" by the doors
19:18:15 <nslater> but at least they have an excuse for lazy song writing, namely, being constantly stoned
19:18:46 <nslater> funeral pier, rather
19:18:50 <selggig> you can't link something interesting to read then beep mee, sbp :/
19:18:53 <sbp> pyre...
19:19:02 <sbp> ksry selggig
19:19:07 <nslater> hmm, answers.com says it's pier
19:19:11 <nslater> http://www.answers.com/pier&r=67
19:19:14 <selggig> lol
19:19:21 <nslater> oh
19:19:24 <nslater> nope, you're correct
19:19:28 <nslater> either way, lazy song writing
19:20:16 <nslater> unless of course you had a verse which rhymed pyre, herse and unferl all in one, then I would take it as a subtle work of genious
19:20:19 <selggig> funeral pier, you are dumped off into the lonely depths *kersploosh*
19:20:30 <sbp> nslater: what about this?
19:20:31 <sbp> [[[
19:20:32 <sbp> And Madonna, she still has not showed
19:20:34 <sbp> We see this empty cage now corrode
19:20:36 <sbp> Where her cape of the stage once had flowed
19:20:39 <sbp> The fiddler, he now steps to the road
19:20:40 <sbp> He writes ev'rything's been returned which was owed
19:20:44 <sbp> On the back of the fish truck that loads
19:20:46 <sbp> While my conscience explodes
19:20:48 <sbp> ]]]
19:21:18 <nslater> what..
19:21:50 <selggig> guilt over fishy fiddlerness in a cage
19:21:55 <nslater> do you consider that good or bad, sbp?
19:22:06 <sbp> good
19:23:13 <nslater> this is the laziest verse, ever writen:
19:23:16 <nslater> [[[
19:23:21 <nslater> Oh, the time to hesitate is through
19:23:21 <nslater> There's no time to wallow in the mire
19:23:21 <nslater> If I was to say to you
19:23:21 <nslater> That our love becomes a funeral pyre
19:23:22 <nslater> ]]]
19:23:28 <nslater> it actually makes me angry to listen to it
19:23:45 <nslater> "wallow in the mire" - I mean, COME on
19:23:45 <sbp> [[[
19:23:56 <sbp> ... ]]] [[[
19:23:58 <sbp> See the primitive wallflower freeze
19:23:58 <sbp> When the jelly-faced women all sneeze
19:23:58 <sbp> Hear the one with the mustache say, "Jeeze
19:23:58 <sbp> I can't find my knees"
19:23:59 <sbp> ]]]
19:24:09 <nslater> bwahaha
19:24:15 <nslater> thats amazing
19:24:56 <sbp> yet somehow this is one of the best song, actually one of the best poems even, ever written
19:25:01 <sbp> s/song/songs/
19:25:07 <nslater> which one?
19:25:10 <sbp> you probably need to read the whole thing... :-)
19:25:11 <nslater> the doors?
19:25:14 <sbp> the one I just quoted from twice
19:25:19 <nslater> oh, sweet :)
19:25:37 <sbp> what I mean is, any little fragment can be laughed at out of context
19:25:51 <sbp> I think that Morrison's lyrics are very good within the context of that song
19:25:52 <Monty> hmm, answers.com says it's easier than remembering what my conscience explodes
19:26:03 *** sbp changed the topic to: "<Monty> hmm, answers.com says it's easier than remembering what my conscience explodes"
19:26:33 <selggig> Monty seems volatile
19:26:36 <Monty> nslater: what I thought that one I think so :)
19:28:53 * nslater slaps Monty
19:28:54 <Monty> Billy?
19:29:51 <nslater> sbp: actually, I think the whole song is drug influenced rubbish, but each to his own ;)
19:30:05 <nslater> sbp: not to imply that drug influenced music IS rubbish, just that particular song
19:30:13 <sbp> heh
19:30:24 <nslater> sbp: I mean, if I WAS to imply that, I would probably be ruling out all music
19:30:44 <sbp> yeah, pretty much...
19:31:22 <nslater> if I am correct in my understanding, opiates were quite popular in Europe during the "classical era" (clearly showing my lack of understanding of the history of "classical music" here) and also for the great Jazz artists
19:32:29 <Arnia> Classical? Baroque? Romance? Modern? Post-Modern?
19:32:35 <Arnia> Lots of periods to choose from
19:32:37 <nslater> yeah, exactly :p
19:32:39 <Arnia> Oh, I should disappear
19:32:50 * Arnia puts on a TARDIS key
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19:49:54 * selggig sighs
19:50:45 <sbp> teh seighs?
19:51:32 <selggig> I'd listen to that while drifting to sleep in the heat of the afternoon
19:51:34 <selggig> :]
19:51:56 <sbp> teh sweetz
19:52:15 <selggig> it's a lazy, lilty song
19:52:49 <sbp> there's an early take which has driving drums and quite some pace to it
19:52:58 <sbp> which surprisingly works quite well too, even though it's so different
19:53:10 <sbp> each work well in their own way. the album version is better, I think
19:56:00 <selggig> I may check it out at some point
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20:25:27 <_bjoern> I really need to mail "You might also drop dead. We all hope for that, yet it does not happen."
20:25:36 *** cre8radix has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
20:25:42 <_bjoern> Where is my killfile, I can't stand this guy anymore
20:25:58 <sbp> whichguyplz
20:27:22 <_bjoern> it appears that marking read and filing in the right folder is complicated to set up
20:27:29 <_bjoern> U DUNWANA NO
20:28:00 <_bjoern> It is not the first time I'm expressing my profound hatred
20:33:39 <_bjoern> I had "12USD ùillion" in spam earlier today.
20:34:42 <_bjoern> .title http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=67640
20:34:42 <phenny> _bjoern: Congress wants to know your eBay buying habits
20:36:22 * sbp buys Congress
20:43:54 * selggig packages Congress up and ships it as quickly as possible to sbp with no return address
20:49:26 <sbp> oh dear, sounds like I got more than I bargained for...
20:50:45 <_bjoern> You could sell the package on ebay. Are we full circle already?
20:52:36 <_bjoern> It's bed o'clock for sbp.
20:53:04 <selggig> sweet dreams sbp
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21:20:04 <nsh> it's all wrong
21:20:05 <phenny> nsh: 17 Jun 20:10Z <nslater> tell nsh I'll write, YOU read. 5 dollar.
21:20:45 <nslater> nsh: YOU
21:20:49 <nslater> nsh: ARE
21:20:52 <nslater> nsh: BACK
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21:21:01 <nsh> (marginally)
21:21:07 <nslater> oh?
21:21:40 <nsh> there are theories about jetlag, for poetic purposes, on the most part
21:21:45 <nslater> aha
21:21:58 <nslater> .g "i'll write, you read. 5 dollar"
21:22:00 <phenny> nslater: No results found for '"i'll write, you read. 5 dollar"'.
21:22:07 <nslater> .g i'll write, you read. 5 dollar
21:22:08 <phenny> nslater: http://www.5bucksaday.com/
21:22:11 <nslater> hmm
21:22:15 <nslater> n5h, clue?
21:22:16 <n5h> ghoti. ah, bernard shaw. enough women nation -> fish. take care :-).
21:22:24 <nslater> heh
21:24:15 <nsh> why is it that none of these internet get-rich schemes are initiatory guises for a massive global suicide cult
21:24:18 <nsh> WHY THE FUCK IS THAT
21:24:28 <nslater> not sure
21:24:39 <nsh> ok
21:25:48 * nsh considers writing a public service information pamphlet, entitled: SPACE IN THE MIDDLE, THERE IS *NOT PLENTY*
21:26:23 <nsh> but i think the economic concepts involved in the explication would be lost on anyone over the age of seven
21:26:35 <nsh> so, how's tings and carp?
21:26:52 <nslater> tings okay, where you bin?
21:27:00 <nsh> ironical islands
21:27:04 <nsh> of the united kingdom
21:27:09 <nslater> good weather?
21:27:15 <nsh> of great babylon and nahwganbe irieland
21:27:35 <nsh> .gs fair-weather *
21:27:37 <phenny> fair-weather *: friends (8), mesoscale (3), friend (3), federalism (3), fans (3), trendsà (2), federalists (2), constitutionalists (2), commuters (2)
21:28:40 <deltab> http://www.zompist.com/spell.html
21:28:52 <deltab> “Whenever the subject comes up, someone is sure to bring up all the words in -ough, or George Bernard Shaw's ghoti-- a word which illustrates only Shaw's wiseacre ignorance. English spelling may be a nightmare, but it does have rules, and by those rules, ghoti can only be pronounced like goatee.”
21:29:12 <deltab> “The purpose of this page is to describe those rules-- to explain the system behind English spelling, the rules that tell you how to pronounce a written word correctly over 85% of the time.”
21:29:31 <nslater> .dict wiseacre
21:29:32 <phenny> wiseacre - 1. annoyingly authoritative or self-assured person, 2. insolent sarcastic person
21:29:56 <nslater> I would pronounce it "goty"
21:29:59 <nsh> mapping the fair-weather mesoscale, child / undertaken ought be in jest / for fungible cantos prevail in that wild / and metre is mangled at best
21:30:16 <nsh> *ought not
21:31:05 * nsh imagines stalking the fungible canto in a mountain-range on the fair-weather mesoscale
21:36:57 <nsh> .gs * was primarily the language of the proles
21:36:58 <phenny> * was primarily the language of the proles: No results!
21:37:28 <nsh> .gs english was primarily the language of the *
21:37:29 <phenny> english was primarily the language of the *: No results!
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21:56:12 <nsh> "The tools could have been used to hunt horses, mammoth and woolly rhinoceros." -- http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7466735.stm
21:56:17 <nsh> (see picture)
21:57:16 <nslater> looks like a rock, to me
21:57:25 <nsh> You; Palm-Sized Vaguely Coffin-Shaped Rock; and either: Horse, Mammoth, or Wholly Rhinoceros
21:57:34 <nsh> WANT?!
21:57:36 <nslater> hahaha
21:57:55 <deltab> .gc Neandertools
21:57:57 <phenny> Neandertools: 19
21:58:19 <nsh> pft
21:58:3