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01:29:33 <saml> sbp: Sorry for the last time. I was away when I was kicked out.
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01:32:25 <saml> i was glen_quagmire. but i thought that nick gave me trollish behavior. so i changed my nick including my real name (hopefully taking off anonymity would make me think one more time on the internet.
01:51:54 * jsled thinks that's a good idea. :)
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02:38:29 <jsled> Monty: here is a ticket to get see owls get strangled.
02:38:29 <Monty> Does talking about this bother you ?
02:39:31 <jsled> The strangling of owls? Well, if it bothered me that much, I don't think I'd have mentioned it. But the very fact that it bothers me makes it worth mentioning. So, yes, Monty.
02:39:31 <Monty> hmmzwhatnow?
02:39:37 <jsled> Monty: yes.
02:39:38 <Monty> You seem to be quite positive.
02:39:43 <jsled> Monty: indeed! :)
02:39:44 <Monty> Tv out of efficiency
02:55:20 * Arnia reverses Monty's entropy
02:55:20 <Monty> if they must've been stealing them I need to spain.
02:55:48 <Arnia> Swhack definition please: spain, vt.
02:56:27 <jsled> There's a Berlin, VT … but I don't think there's a Spain, VT.
02:57:06 <Arnia> Verb transitive
02:57:10 <Arnia> :p
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06:05:27 <Monty> it's _bjoern!
06:06:41 <melbel> yay Monty
06:06:43 <Monty> baby don't care for '003cb'.
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06:13:09 <Mike_L> Monty: you greet others but not me?
06:13:12 <Monty> killfiled fiddlesticks has sex with incidental bidets.
06:13:48 <_bjoern> .u 03cb
06:13:48 <phenny> U+03CB GREEK SMALL LETTER UPSILON WITH DIALYTIKA (ϋ)
06:13:48 <Monty> "you"
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06:15:42 <Monty> But what does mmmmmrob have to do with the price of fish?
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06:18:45 <melbel> looks like, Mike_L
06:22:04 <_bjoern> Hello melbel
06:22:18 <melbel> morning _bjoern
06:23:05 <melbel> so much lag everywhere tonight :|
06:31:06 <Arnia> Hrm
06:31:12 * Arnia explodes
06:34:28 <melbel> what's up, Arnia?
06:46:40 <_bjoern> So for my encoding oracle string it seems "$" is the first character to use
06:47:03 <_bjoern> among the ~130 encodings it can be encoded in 113 of them, an has 8 different byte sequences for it among those.
06:47:28 <_bjoern> a distant second is ! with 113:4
06:47:53 <_bjoern> ` has 111:10
06:48:24 <_bjoern> º -> 97:24
06:49:16 <melbel> hmmm
06:49:33 <Arnia> melbel: bad day yesterday, probably getting worse today
06:50:15 <melbel> I saw something earlier but it was only a tiny bit and didn't make too much sense
06:50:58 <_bjoern> tops if you only look at distinct byte sequences are these (code point, number of encodings it is in, distinct representations)
06:50:59 <_bjoern> 167 97 24
06:50:59 <_bjoern> 166 77 20
06:50:59 <_bjoern> 65339 83 20
06:50:59 <_bjoern> 65341 83 20
06:51:00 <_bjoern> 164 73 19
06:51:02 <_bjoern> 168 77 19
06:51:04 <_bjoern> 215 73 19
06:51:06 <_bjoern> 247 86 19
06:51:08 <_bjoern> 175 59 18
06:51:10 <_bjoern> 180 69 18
06:51:12 <_bjoern> 711 30 18
06:51:14 <_bjoern> 65312 85 18
06:51:16 <_bjoern> 65340 83 18
06:51:44 <_bjoern> .u ª
06:51:45 <phenny> U+00AA FEMININE ORDINAL INDICATOR (ª)
06:54:32 <Mike_L> Arnia: what made it a bad day?
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07:06:22 <Arnia> Mike_L: plans crumbling to dust; tends to put a downer on most people
07:07:24 <Mike_L> Arnia: sorry
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07:13:44 <Arnia> I'm distracting myself with Doctor Who previews
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07:24:46 <_bjoern> .u $
07:24:47 <phenny> U+0024 DOLLAR SIGN ($)
07:24:47 <Monty> "you"
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07:31:19 <Monty> yo nsh!
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08:15:05 <_bjoern> .c 0x20ac in decimal
08:15:05 <phenny> 0x20ac = 8 364
08:22:47 <_bjoern> .u ¸
08:22:48 <phenny> U+00B8 CEDILLA (¸)
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08:39:34 <_bjoern> % sqlite3 -header -list db "select bytes, group_concat(encoding, ' ') as encodings from tab where codePoint = 246 group by bytes"
08:39:34 <_bjoern> bytes|encodings
08:39:34 <_bjoern> 00F6|unicodeFFFE
08:39:34 <_bjoern> 2B4150592D|utf-7
08:39:34 <_bjoern> 6A|IBM278 IBM01143 IBM273 IBM01141
08:39:35 <_bjoern> 7C|x-IA5-German x-IA5-Swedish
08:39:37 <_bjoern> 81308B32|GB18030
08:39:39 <_bjoern> 94|ibm775 ibm852 ibm861 IBM865 IBM437 IBM00858 ibm857 ibm850
08:39:41 <_bjoern> 9A|x-mac-arabic x-mac-ce x-mac-croatian x-mac-greek x-mac-hebrew x-mac-icelandic x-mac-romanian x-mac-turkish macintosh
08:39:44 <_bjoern> A1|IBM871 IBM01149 IBM905 IBM1026
08:39:46 <_bjoern> AB53|EUC-JP
08:39:48 <_bjoern> C3B6|utf-8
08:39:50 <_bjoern> C86F|x-cp20261
08:39:52 <_bjoern> CC|IBM277 IBM01142 IBM297 IBM01147 IBM500 IBM01148 IBM280 IBM01144 IBM870 IBM284 IBM01145 IBM285 IBM01146 IBM037 IBM01140 IBM01047 IBM00924
08:39:55 <_bjoern> EB|IBM423
08:39:57 <_bjoern> F6|_autodetect_all iso-8859-4 windows-1257 iso-8859-2 windows-1250 iso-8859-13 iso-8859-3 iso-8859-15 iso-8859-9 windows-1254 x-user-defined windows-1258 iso-8859-1 Windows-1252
08:40:00 <_bjoern> F600|unicode
08:40:04 <nsh> MOAR ENGLISHER PLS
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08:40:21 <_bjoern> ö
08:49:49 <thelsdj> 901 xmoto levels beat, 327 hours of play time
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09:14:44 <_bjoern> .gcs +utf-16le +utf16-le
09:14:45 <phenny> +utf-16le (101,000), +utf16-le (3,760)
09:16:08 <sbp> yo
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09:17:29 <_bjoern> It seems firefox thinks ö in hz-gb-2312 is "~{~}"
09:23:34 <_bjoern> source:
09:23:35 <_bjoern> _ // some thing that we cannot convert
09:23:35 <_bjoern> _ // xxx fix me ftang
09:23:35 <_bjoern> _ // error handling here
09:28:22 <sbp> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ftang
09:33:09 <_bjoern> .gc nurtehshit
09:33:10 <phenny> nurtehshit: 0
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09:49:59 <melbel> Ftang!
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10:29:51 <nsh> terrible writing is terrible
10:29:56 <nsh> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2008/04/23/notes042308.DTL&nl=fix
10:30:56 <nsh> surprised author managed to sit still long enough to type article. suspect dictation and ritalin
10:32:43 <darobin> overspanked consciousness?
10:33:40 <nsh> wait 'til you get to "divine lubricant"
10:33:41 <darobin> Me, I like to think of the Earth as essentially a giant Tibetan singing bowl, flicked by the middle finger of God
10:36:46 <darobin> it would be funny if it went on for three paragraphs, but this is really bad
10:37:35 <nsh> and has more homoerotic undertones than the rocky horror picture show
10:37:36 <darobin> they should put author pics at the beginning of articles, at least one would be warned
10:38:07 * nsh smiles
10:39:40 <darobin> well horny unicorns
10:40:02 <nsh> .wik Rayleigh wave
10:40:02 <phenny> "Rayleigh waves, also known as the Rayleigh-Lamb Wave or 'ground roll', are a type of surface wave." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayleigh_wave
10:41:26 <nsh> hrnmm
10:42:54 <nsh> .wik Schumann resonance
10:42:54 <phenny> "The Schumann resonances (SR) are a set of spectrum peaks in the extremely low frequency (ELF) portion of the Earth's electromagnetic field spectrum." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schumann_resonance
10:43:35 <nsh> moar sciencier article: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v445/n7129/full/nature05536.html
10:44:14 <nsh> less allusions to pinot in the tub and lubricated prostate massages though
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11:17:20 <Morbus> .
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11:20:16 <Morbus> .c 28,855/1172533*100
11:20:16 <phenny> (28 855 / 1 172 533) * 100 = 2.46091155
11:20:35 <Morbus> .c 56793/2138716*100
11:20:35 <phenny> (56 793 / 2 138 716) * 100 = 2.65547179
11:20:42 <Morbus> 2.6% in the world. bah.
11:20:47 * Morbus decides to only check the world stat now.
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11:45:54 <_bjoern> .c 0x20ac in decimal
11:45:54 <phenny> 0x20ac = 8 364
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11:47:55 <_bjoern> Hmm need Perl module that maintains (foo is different from bar) information for me
11:48:06 <_bjoern> with an easy way to get the transitive closure of the relation
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11:48:40 <_bjoern> Graph::TransitiveClosure::Matrix sound good?
11:56:01 <_bjoern> also Algorithm::EquivalenceSets
11:59:09 <darobin> you probably want to ask someone who has knowledge both of Perl and of what you're talking about :)
11:59:47 <_bjoern> Like the people using twitter?
11:59:58 <darobin> there are people using twitter?
12:00:07 <_bjoern> Shocking as it may seem!
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12:12:02 <sbp> not people, vapids
12:12:33 <sbp> a thousand faceless vapids twittering through the night
12:12:36 <_bjoern> Explain difference plz.
12:12:45 <sbp> vapids use Twitter; people don't
12:13:06 <sbp> it's like a mark of technobunkum belief
12:13:50 <sbp> if you believe in technobunkum, you strain to hear the latest remark from Pilgrim and Hixie and Slashdot; you use Twitter and talk about Microformats and RDF...
12:15:03 <sbp> technobunkum is like technology with pictures, to use The Times as an analogy
12:15:25 <_bjoern> What's the matter with porting .thesaurus btw?
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12:15:29 <sbp> it's yellow journalism, technology style
12:15:34 <_bjoern> I see.
12:15:39 <sbp> no matter. I just need to hook it up to a better site
12:15:44 <sbp> I'm going to use onelook.com, I think
12:16:05 <sbp> but can't be arsed yet to sit down for an hour or two writing yet another screenscraper
12:16:13 <sbp> feel free to do it for me...
12:16:21 <sbp> (use the colon-prefixed term entry facility)
12:18:37 <_bjoern> what's wrong with the old site?
12:19:02 <sbp> onelook is better
12:19:28 <sbp> with the old site, it didn't combine senses
12:19:28 <sbp> I think onelook does
12:19:47 <_bjoern> The idea being reuse of the old code.
12:21:27 <sbp> also the old site did things alphabetically
12:21:40 <sbp> and if it returned three lines' worth of results, I'd feel like I had to show them all
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12:21:49 <sbp> onelook orders things by appropriateness
12:21:59 <sbp> Gnostic_Kitten: hello
12:22:14 <sbp> so you can take the top N without it feeling too arbitrary a cut-off point
12:22:29 <_bjoern> We need a phenny that harnesses CPAN goodness.
12:22:59 <sbp> wait for perl6 to obliterate python...
12:23:05 <sbp> or slurp it up
12:39:20 <_bjoern> .u °
12:39:20 <phenny> U+00B0 DEGREE SIGN (°)
12:39:21 <Monty> "you"
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12:55:02 <Morbus> nslater: http://kotaku.com/5019567/zero-punctuation-wades-through-mgs4
12:55:02 <Monty> wwwwwwwwwwwow
12:55:07 <Morbus> nslater: yes. it's just like that, actually.
12:55:11 <Morbus> sbp ^^
12:55:26 <_bjoern> ++Monty
12:55:29 <Monty> okay... but switched almost instantly to hook it and of awesome.
12:55:45 <nslater> not worky
12:56:09 <Morbus> http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/99-Metal-Gear-Solid-4
12:56:10 <Morbus> ?
12:56:50 <nslater> ah, works in FF
12:57:42 <nslater> no, still doesnt work
13:00:11 <sbp> ooh, new ZP
13:00:23 <nslater> what do i need to play it?
13:00:24 <nslater> :(
13:02:22 <Morbus> just flash. i've never had a problem :(
13:03:06 <nslater> bah, zp is good, i will try in the office in a bit
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13:09:02 *** sbp changed the topic to: "this shit is bananas!"
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13:11:27 <_bjoern> .gc bananadong
13:11:27 <phenny> bananadong: 68
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13:18:40 <nsh> .ety nociception
13:21:04 <nsh> phenny!
13:21:04 <phenny> nsh!
13:21:10 <nsh> .wik Nociception
13:21:10 <phenny> "Nociception (synonyms; nociperception, physiological pain) is the afferent activity produced in the peripheral and central nervous system by stimuli that have the potential to damage tissue.[1]|[2]| This activity is initiated by nociceptors, (also called pain [...]" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nociception
13:21:49 <phenny> Can't connect to etymonline.com (http://etymonline.com/?term=nociception)
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13:27:53 <_bjoern> I have a list of lists ([a,b,c,...], [d,e,f,...], ... ). I want to process, in unordered pairs, each and every pair of items (x,y) where x and y belong to different inner lists (an item cannot be in more than one inner list).
13:29:29 <_bjoern> build a hash (item => id of list), then for each key, for each key, if hash{keyA} != hash{keyB}, and then get rid of the ordering?
13:30:12 <nsh> you want all the unique pairs of elements which are in different lists?
13:30:33 <sbp> a cartesian product of the sets?
13:31:03 <sbp> oh wait, not inner sets, and overall set. I see
13:31:15 <_bjoern> consider: two items are equivalent if and only if they are in the same inner set
13:31:36 <sbp> equivalence? where did that come in?
13:31:45 <_bjoern> I want foreach pair x,y with x != y do ...
13:31:54 <sbp> ah
13:32:07 <_bjoern> I'm just being more specific about the semantics
13:32:14 <sbp> then yeah, do a cartesian product and just drop the duplicates inside the loop I suppose
13:32:50 <_bjoern> I was hoping maybe I'm missing some l33t functional function ala zip, reduce, ... that'd make this look simple.
13:34:50 <sbp> actually I guess it's not even cartesian product, because you want only pairs
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13:35:57 <Monty> it's MacTed!
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13:38:31 <Monty> Speak of the devil, it's cre8radix!
13:39:15 <nsh> two loops: outside is foreach(innerlist), pops a member then goes into inside loop, which returns the member in a pair with every element of the remaining innerlists, then discard member, repeat until innerlist empty, loop
13:40:13 <nsh> probably possible with two nested map()s in perl, but i can't remember all that shniz
13:41:11 <nsh> actually, outside loop should pop innerlists too, instead of cycling
13:42:56 <Gbps> .wik Schwartzian transform
13:42:57 <phenny> "In computer science, the Schwartzian Transform is a Perl programming idiom used to improve the efficiency of sorting a list of items." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwartzian_transform
13:44:57 <nsh> isn't Schwartz an international cyberterrorist?
13:45:15 <Gbps> Nope, just federal.
13:45:29 *** Gbps is now known as xover
13:45:53 * nsh chuckles
13:47:10 <nsh> i'm reasonably sure the us federal government is legally an international corporation at present
13:47:11 <Monty> U+00AA FEMININE ORDINAL INDICATOR (ª)
13:47:27 <nsh> Monty, *you're* a feminine ordinal indicator
13:47:28 <Monty> hrnmm
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13:57:13 <Monty> bah, it's JibberJim again
13:57:17 <_bjoern> Now you've done it, xover left!
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14:05:20 <Monty> welcome, xover
14:10:56 <sbp> welcoim!
14:11:40 <xover> .w coim
14:11:40 <phenny> I couldn't find 'coim' in WordNet.
14:12:55 <xover> .gc coim
14:12:56 <phenny> coim: 330,000
14:13:07 <xover> Sounds like it should mean something in yiddish.
14:13:27 <sbp> I derived it from coign, amongst other things
14:13:35 <sbp> the -colm in Malcolm
14:13:43 <sbp> coin...
14:13:53 <nsh> I'LL DERIVE YOUR COLM
14:14:01 <sbp> kk
14:28:15 <nslater> yo
14:38:27 <sbp> yo
14:42:42 <nslater> so, i tweeked my 404 so that i can move things around freely without having to update my .htaccess files, a little python script does quick scan of the filesystem and redirects you if it finds the same file somewherre else, which is pretty neet
14:43:11 <nslater> last week I posted http://bytesexual.org/ginsparg but I moved it the other day, and the old link still works and I didn't have to do anything :p
14:43:11 <Monty> in!
14:43:15 <nslater> out!
14:43:31 <plum> shake it all about!
14:43:34 <sbp> how does it find the file
14:43:36 <sbp> ...?
14:43:53 <_bjoern> I think nslater just said jehova.
14:43:53 <sbp> hmm, you lost the xkcd link on that page
14:44:14 <nslater> yeah, im editing the page... :/
14:44:37 <nslater> ... was trying to find a way to work in the xkcd link without just barfing a uri
14:44:52 <sbp> good, good
14:45:01 <_bjoern> http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/microsoft/archives/141821.asp
14:45:13 <nslater> anyway... one second
14:45:43 <nslater> where is lisppaste :(
14:45:55 <_bjoern> in your face?
14:46:01 <nslater> prolly
14:47:18 <sbp> “So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated.”
14:47:58 <nslater> bill gates!
14:48:39 <lorvax1> yes, that article is well worth the read
14:48:55 <lorvax1> and - better yet is his response - "not a day goes by that I don't write a letter like this one"
14:48:59 *** nwalsh (n=ndw@66-189-4-239.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com) has joined #swhack
14:49:02 <nslater> sbp: http://bytesexual.org/practica/not-found
14:49:22 <lorvax1> more troubling is that MSFT has one of the largest testing & UI setups -if not the largest - in the world.
14:49:23 <nslater> sbp: ignore the search and format methods, the redirect stuff happens in find
14:49:34 <lorvax1> wups, urm, I mean, woild - sorry sbp
14:51:22 <sbp> nslater: what happens if you have two files with the same name?
14:51:54 <sbp> what happens when you have 100,000 files on your site?
14:52:05 <nslater> it redirects you to the first one it finds, which defaults to the one closest to the root of the tree
14:52:15 <_bjoern> I fold them all into /uuid/<key>
14:52:22 <sbp> hehe
14:52:24 <nslater> as for the 100,000, I havn't tested it's performance yet, premature optimisation etc
14:52:36 <nslater> WFM YMMV
14:52:45 <_bjoern> not moving stuff wfm
14:52:53 <nslater> I think you would need a LOT of files before it was noticable
14:53:36 <cre8radix> lalala
14:53:36 <phenny> cre8radix: 25 Jun 18:33Z <_bjoern> tell cre8radix http://germany.usembassy.gov/warden/2008-06-24/index2.html
14:53:43 <cre8radix> heh
14:53:54 <cre8radix> they be paranoid
14:54:17 <sbp> .head
14:54:18 <phenny> sbp: 200, text/plain, utf-8, 2008-06-26 14:47:07 UTC, 3122 bytes
14:54:22 <sbp> .title
14:54:22 <phenny> sbp: Document isn't HTML
14:54:47 <sbp> .title http://germany.usembassy.gov/warden/2008-06-24/index2.html
14:54:47 <phenny> sbp: No title found
14:54:48 <_bjoern> Hab mich gewundert warum Schäuble und Beckstein nicht vor erhöhter terrorgefahr gewarnt haben, wäre doch die Gelegenheit gewesen.
14:54:49 <sbp> .head http://germany.usembassy.gov/warden/2008-06-24/index2.html
14:54:49 <phenny> sbp: 404, text/html, iso-8859-1, 15 bytes
14:55:10 <cre8radix> m bessy tellin di us citizens 2 be careful about crazy violent german hooligans
14:55:19 <cre8radix> lolz
14:55:41 <cre8radix> an american citizen should never leave the house
14:55:47 <cre8radix> things coul happen
14:55:59 <cre8radix> coulD
14:56:14 <cre8radix> heaven could fall on his head
14:56:17 <nslater> NP: 'Bambu Station - Fire' on 'S K Y . F M - Roots Reggae - the best of classic and modern Roots Reggae with DJ Bahilman'
14:56:26 <nslater> oh man, itunes doesnt have this song :(
14:56:40 <_bjoern> They could disturb non-USians, that'd worry me most.
14:57:02 <nslater> hmm, it has bambu station - Fya! - might be it
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15:16:31 <Monty> Or maybe
15:16:41 <jsled> … what, Monty?
15:16:42 <Monty> enrique iglesias... gross
15:18:31 * nsh wonders what Sun have done for anyone lately, anyway
15:18:53 <jsled> They've paid my salary. :)
15:19:01 <nsh> i seem to remember their last remaining purpose in the universe was to open-source java and then wither away according to marxist theory
15:19:13 <nsh> well, that's always good
15:19:26 <jsled> ZFS is pretty awesome, though.
15:20:15 <nsh> so i seem to remember being vaguely sympathetic about
15:20:33 <lorvax1> solaris 10 zones is a better xen than xen, and a better jail than jail(8)
15:20:36 <nsh> but, i dunno, it's a filesystem. it's basic remit is to not require thinking about
15:20:38 <nsh> *its
15:20:43 <lorvax1> opensolaris is kewl
15:21:08 <jsled> Well, its better than !open solaris, but I don't know that it's cool.
15:21:15 <jsled> Yet another distro. Great.
15:21:22 <nsh> there are still distros?
15:21:23 <nsh> pft
15:21:31 <jsled> What, it boots up and I see the exact same gnome as everywhere else. Great.
15:21:31 * nsh goes back in the cryo-pen for another few decades
15:22:05 <nsh> i'm reminded of the various factions for jewish liberation in The Life of Brian
15:23:00 <nsh> in fact, i'm going to imagine writing a witty diatribe using that as an extended metaphor for the unnecessary fragmentation of free computing solutions right now
15:23:47 <lorvax1> gee, that's swell
15:24:07 <lorvax1> "open source jeremiad posted on osnews, film at 11"
15:24:07 * nsh likes how outspoken and inspirational imaginary nsh is
15:24:49 <nsh> .wik Jeremiad
15:24:49 <phenny> "A Jeremiad is a long literary work, usually in prose, but sometimes in poetry, in which the author bitterly laments the state of society and its morals in a serious tone of sustained invective, and always contains a prophecy of society's imminent downfall." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremiad
15:25:11 <nsh> why, i think i've found a profession i can really believe in
15:25:47 <nsh> n5h, get on the dolorous tiradation rightways nowtime pls
15:25:48 <n5h> ok sbp.
15:25:55 <nsh> n5h, and less snark.
15:25:57 <n5h> hah. essentially it boiled down to least popular you have to be capes. i call pointless exercises. i can just submit the hashes of any infinite verbs that apply to them are.
15:26:32 *** nsh changed the topic to: "Swhack: you can just submit the hashes of any infinite verbs that apply"
15:27:32 <nslater> n5h <3
15:27:32 <phenny> nslater: 15:25Z <MoiraA> tell nslater that his understanding of sql relational database joins is not quite complete
15:27:32 <n5h> what test cases?
15:27:41 <nslater> um, what?
15:28:06 <nslater> .ask MoiraA and you're basing this statement, on what?
15:28:06 <plum> nslater: I'll pass that on when MoiraA is around.
15:28:09 <nslater> damn
15:28:16 <nslater> phenny: ask MoiraA and you're basing this statement, on what?
15:28:16 <phenny> nslater: I'll pass that on when MoiraA is around.
15:31:05 *** KiYanWang has quit ()
15:31:10 * nslater wibbles
15:31:10 <phenny> nslater: 15:29Z <MoiraA> tell nslater since he is now here: <<Don't forget your Moira-Lonely - her spirit lives on>>
15:31:24 <nslater> k :/
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15:35:57 <nelix> hmm, type checking (string or mixed) in python without regex or try/except?
15:37:19 <nslater> regex!?
15:37:19 <phenny> nslater: 15:31Z <MoiraA> tell nslater Moira|still_muted, since 1845 so maybe <<It's time to think about Moira|forgotten>>
15:37:21 <phenny> nslater: 15:34Z <MoiraA> tell nslater Moira-Lonely strikes back and the next target is loggy
15:38:12 <nslater> nelix: the pythonic way is to duck type with try/except - if you really need to check the concrete class of an object you can use type(obj) or better yet isinstance(object, class)
15:38:33 <nslater> nelix: be warned, if you're checking a string, do isinstance(some_string, basestring)
15:39:28 <nslater> MoiraA: speak to sbp! I don't hold the keys to swhack :p
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15:49:15 <nslater> o_O
15:49:15 <phenny> nslater: 15:40Z <MoiraA> tell nslater not to worry sbp will get the point
15:49:16 <phenny> nslater: 15:40Z <MoiraA> tell nslater time is too short and log spamming must wait
15:49:17 <phenny> nslater: 15:41Z <MoiraA> tell nslater that bots are a tunnel under +q he should close
15:49:38 <sbp> just demonstrating that ChanServ can deop non-opped people
15:49:38 <phenny> sbp: 15:24Z <MoiraA> tell sbp that <<It's time to think about Moira|forgotten>>
15:49:39 <phenny> sbp: 15:26Z <MoiraA> tell sbp Moira|still_muted, since 1845
15:49:40 <phenny> sbp: 15:26Z <MoiraA> tell sbp <<Moira-Lonely strikes back
15:49:41 <phenny> sbp: 15:28Z <MoiraA> tell sbp <<Don't forget your Moira-Lonely - her spirit lives on>>
15:49:42 <phenny> [Sorry, some messages were elided and lost...]
15:49:43 <sbp> which is kinda w...
15:49:47 <nslater> lame
15:49:47 <sbp> ...kinda wacky
15:49:57 <nslater> you can also op your self twice
15:49:58 <nslater> etc
15:50:01 <sbp> yeah
15:53:00 <nelix> nslater: i am getting numbers from a url, then doing evals on them, so I need to be able to tell the difference between strings (function names) and values, try except works i guess, but speed wise, regex is better
15:54:36 <nelix> regex is not so sinfull when processing user input is it? although i sort of feel regex is always a sin
15:55:50 <nslater> so, you're trying to work out if a specific string is a number or not?
15:56:18 <nslater> I would absolutely do: try: float(string); except: blargh()
15:56:50 <nelix> thanks
15:57:33 <nelix> why does python not expose the method it uses to convert strings to ints without the overhead of exceptions?
15:57:54 <nslater> erm
15:58:07 <nslater> the method it uses is float() or int() or whatever
15:58:16 <nslater> if the method fails, it raises a TypeError
15:58:35 <nslater> how else would you expect it to communicate to you that there was a type mismatch?
15:58:55 <nslater> also, "overhead of exceptions" is a contentious point ;)
16:00:31 <nelix> isconvertabletoint()
16:00:36 <nelix> so i could avoid the trap
16:01:11 <nelix> over thinking over analysing seperates the body from the mind
16:01:28 * nelix should cross these issues if the overhead of try/except becomes a bottle neck
16:01:43 <nslater> how about string.isdigit()?
16:02:45 <nslater> but anyway, try/except is The Python Way, it's best top embrace it, not fight it :)
16:03:06 <nslater> checking things all the time is an artifact of other, less awesome, languages :p
16:03:13 <nslater> just try something, if it fails, back it out, voila
16:04:27 <nelix> there is a string.isdigit!?
16:04:43 <nslater> that's not to say, btw, that there are never any times when it's better to check, just that oftentimes, try/except is better
16:04:47 <nslater> yeah
16:04:47 <nslater> do help(str)
16:05:04 <nslater> do you have ipython installed, btw?
16:05:08 <nelix> yeah
16:05:12 <nslater> :D
16:05:15 <nsh> DEAR INTERNET
16:05:18 <zachb> or even use regex!
16:05:31 <nsh> I AM NOT USING DIAL-UP MODEMS TO CONNECT TO YOUR STUPIDASS SELF
16:05:41 <nsh> PLEASE STOP PUTTING COMMENTS ON MULTIPLE FUCKING PAGES
16:05:45 <nsh> IT IS NOT COOL. NOT COOL
16:05:49 <nslater> heh
16:05:53 <nsh> NOT FUCKING COOL, INTERNET. NOT COOL
16:05:54 <zachb> heh
16:06:07 <nsh> i swear to go
16:06:08 <nsh> d
16:06:16 <nsh> the next web developmer i meet it getting a facefull
16:06:20 <nsh> *is
16:06:20 <nelix> nslater: can idle use ipython instead of whatever it has
16:06:42 <nslater> not sure, I edit in emacs, which can embed ipython in frame! :)
16:06:50 <nslater> try that in vim
16:06:51 <spb> ewww emacs
16:07:13 * nslater hopes for sake of smuggness that vim cant embed external processes
16:07:46 <spb> someone ask nslater to define 'embed'
16:08:21 <chandler> nslater, define 'embed'
16:08:43 <nelix> i like idle because it has break points and a stack moniter
16:08:44 <chandler> nslater: if you think ipython is cool, try SLIME
16:08:54 <nslater> well, I dont know the underlying mechanics, I just know that I can open up an editing frame and run an external process in it, like ipython, or a shell, or irssi
16:09:24 <nelix> you know you can open ipython up in an irssi window
16:09:33 <nslater> sweet
16:09:34 <spb> and what utility does he get from this that vim would require to kill his smugness
16:11:57 <nelix> nsh: i like the comments that are added by loading external javascript which then patchs comments onto the page, those are the best ones
16:12:20 <chandler> embedding subprocesses is pretty ghetto
16:12:21 <nslater> disqo?
16:13:01 <nslater> .g disqus
16:13:03 <phenny> nslater: http://disqus.com/
16:13:05 <chandler> having emacs talk to your compiler over a socket is much neater
16:15:00 <sbp> nelix: doing a consistency check before some operation is inefficient
16:15:17 <sbp> so int(...) and float(...) try first and then throw exception *when* they have a problem
16:15:30 <sbp> if you want to do an if input.isdigit() before hand, then that's up to you
16:15:47 <sbp> this means that the programmer can choose between consistency and efficiency
16:15:56 <sbp> if they did the check internally, you couldn't make that choice
16:16:26 <spb> unless they added an extra argument to control extra checks
16:16:40 <sbp> true
16:17:58 <spb> but that might be a little silly
16:18:05 <sbp> welcome to programming
16:18:12 <spb> fair point
16:18:18 <nslater> hmm
16:18:24 <nslater> 17:15 < sbp> if they did the check internally, you couldn't make that choice
16:18:24 <nslater> 17:16 < sbp> true
16:18:24 <nslater> 17:18 < sbp> welcome to programming
16:18:30 * nslater figures spb is speaking :p
16:18:35 <spb> .tell nslater to lrn2internet
16:18:35 <plum> spb: I'll pass that on when nslater is around.
16:18:42 <sbp> nslater: how about if you made plum say THIS IS SPB NOT SBP after each spb line?
16:18:53 <nslater> lol, that would be pretty funny
16:20:04 <nelix> omg this is confusing
16:20:12 <nelix> it took me ages to notice sbp != spb
16:20:30 <nslater> nelix: i have spb on ignore, to avoid the problem completely
16:20:33 <sbp> weird. I never have that problem
16:20:38 <nslater> i wonder why
16:20:46 <sbp> ㋡
16:20:53 <spb> i find it amusing that nslater "avoids the problem completely"
16:21:02 <spb> then every time i talk starts going on about half conversations instead
16:21:18 <chandler> if I were using ERC I'd hack my client to rewrite spb into NOTSBP
16:21:27 <sbp> well that's a completely different problem
16:21:28 <spb> do it with irssi instead
16:21:40 <nelix> basicly i figure if i know the the string is ether going to be a string for a function i want to eval, or a value (which will be passed to eval) i need to work out they are valid anyway sooner or later
16:21:44 <spb> sbp: it's a related problem caused directly by his solution to the first problem
16:21:51 <chandler> spb: don't feel like hacking C
16:21:51 <spb> related in that both cause confusion
16:22:02 <spb> chandler: irssi is scriptable in perl
16:22:05 <sbp> there's a huge set of problems that cause confusion
16:22:10 <chandler> spb: oh, now that's even worse
16:22:22 <sbp> perl causes confusion. I wouldn't class it as the same problem as the spb/sbp confusion though
16:22:24 <_bjoern> I note this is all the scenders fault.
16:22:28 <nelix> i just added a hightlight to sbp
16:22:30 <sbp> agreed
16:22:41 <nslater> .reload
16:22:59 <zachb> for me, I actually confuse sbp w/ Monty often
16:23:00 <Monty> to turn EXCITING because *
16:23:06 <zachb> since you both have the same color name
16:23:16 <sbp> and we're both dashingly handsome
16:23:23 <spb> i hate to suggest this
16:23:23 <plum> WARNING: YOU ARE NOT SPEAKING TO SEAN B. PALMER
16:23:29 <spb> but you could all just learn to read
16:23:29 <plum> WARNING: YOU ARE NOT SPEAKING TO SEAN B. PALMER
16:23:34 * nslater grins
16:23:47 <nelix> roflmao
16:23:51 <sbp> spb: what if they're dyslexic?
16:24:05 <spb> then they will have more problems than spb vs sbp
16:24:05 <plum> WARNING: YOU ARE NOT SPEAKING TO SEAN B. PALMER
16:24:08 <sbp> plum is a kind of accessibility assistance aid
16:24:17 <spb> s/accessibility/retard/
16:24:17 <plum> WARNING: YOU ARE NOT SPEAKING TO SEAN B. PALMER
16:24:18 <spb> hth
16:24:18 <plum> WARNING: YOU ARE NOT SPEAKING TO SEAN B. PALMER
16:24:22 <sbp> plum: to whom am I speaking plzez?
16:24:31 <nslater> plum doesnt chat any more
16:24:37 <spb> plum: but i am
16:24:37 <plum> ...
16:24:37 <sbp> fair enough
16:24:39 <spb> you lie
16:24:40 <plum> ...
16:24:56 <sbp> teh phenny flood protection
16:24:59 <nslater> n5h is just too funny, i cba maintaining two chatter bots
16:24:59 <n5h> hi sbp. descarte wasn't content with forward counting. or am i to spurns its delicious advances.
16:25:05 <spb> it occurs to me that if plum is going to respond to every line i say
16:25:05 <plum> ...
16:25:12 <spb> i could flood it off relatively easily
16:25:17 <nslater> plum is feeling pretty ill
16:25:22 <spb> oh, did it stop
16:25:30 <sbp> yes, because of flood protection
16:25:39 <spb> well then, that's that dealt with
16:25:44 *** nsh has quit (Connection timed out)
16:25:45 <spb> if i just talk fast enough it'll give up
16:25:57 <n5h> eh being.
16:26:04 <spb> -!- nsh [n=nsh@eduroam-80.uta.fi] has quit [TOO CONFUSED]
16:26:19 <sbp> nsh is never confused
16:26:24 <n5h> who's $1? vint cerf that is. http://xkcd.com/178/.
16:26:30 <sbp> or always confused, or...
16:26:30 <spb> everyone is confused
16:26:47 <sbp> nsh
16:26:53 <n5h> cool, that makes me laugh. i'm thinking £5.
16:27:00 <sbp> why is n5h responding to nsh now too?
16:27:02 <n5h> how do you think you don't have to look cool? mekano-pip, what if you're not doing enough. heh.
16:27:18 <chandler> sbp: sorry, that's me triggering n5h via privmsg. I'll knock it off now
16:27:20 <n5h> i must have. £433 isn't that in a iain banks novel... the word. for a long time to explain.
16:27:29 <sbp> chandler: aw man, l33t hax
16:28:18 <nslater> okay... updated plum's warning message logic
16:29:12 <nslater> hmmm
16:29:14 <nslater> nsh
16:29:20 <nslater> n5h
16:29:21 <n5h> apparantly he's too cool for kids. hey! how be thou, arnia? how do you ever sneeze.
16:29:27 <spb> what what does it do now, i wonder
16:29:30 <nslater> ah, someone is setting him off by privmsg
16:29:35 <spb> oh, nothing it seems
16:30:24 <nslater> spb: it will warn us every five minutes while you are talking
16:30:43 <spb> wait, does that mean you have unignored me or are you haxing
16:30:51 <nslater> i unignored you
16:30:59 <spb> aww
16:31:09 <nelix> so this try except works really well
16:31:15 <spb> now i only have the sbp/spb confusion to work with
16:31:18 <darobin> nslater: congrats on the release :)
16:31:25 <nslater> darobin: thank you!
16:31:25 <zachb> of what?
16:31:29 <darobin> :)
16:31:30 <nslater> couchdb 0.8.0
16:31:32 <darobin> CouchDB
16:31:33 <zachb> oh
16:31:35 <sbp> couchdb 0.9,.1.3.1.391.10
16:31:41 <spb> not gnupublish then
16:31:45 <nslater> no :(
16:31:46 <sbp> stardate supplementary
16:31:49 <zachb> I got excited D:
16:31:49 <spb> or is that being rewritten again
16:31:55 <nslater> no, still workin on it
16:32:01 <nslater> ... might just put you back on ignore
16:32:08 <sbp> hehe
16:32:10 <zachb> still make/python?
16:32:12 <spb> wat
16:32:14 <nslater> yes
16:32:24 <zachb> The Purple 8 Ball says: Not likely
16:32:28 <nslater> i got a significant number of unit tests passing today!
16:32:35 <zachb> yay?
16:32:41 <nslater> yes, yay!
16:32:44 * nslater chuckles
16:32:50 <nslater> but anyway, go download couchdb now!
16:32:54 <zachb> OKAY!
16:32:56 <sbp> .g unit tests considered harmful
16:32:57 <phenny> sbp: http://scruffylookingcatherder.com/archive/2008/02/22/tdd-considered-harmful.aspx
16:33:05 * zachb downloads
16:33:07 <nslater> sean b. palmer considered harmful
16:33:14 <darobin> nslater: do you know if there's a way the content of the wiki can be downloaded?
16:33:17 <nslater> .g considered harmful essays considered harmful
16:33:18 <phenny> nslater: http://meyerweb.com/eric/comment/chech.html
16:33:30 <nslater> darobin: um, not sure...
16:33:31 <darobin> I'm going to be offline over the week-end and wouldn't mind having the docs about
16:33:37 <darobin> I guess I can just spider it
16:33:40 <nslater> .g moin moin export
16:33:41 <phenny> nslater: http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/RobertSeeger
16:33:45 <nslater> ha
16:34:08 <nslater> sbp: actually, they're not unit tests, they're functional tests
16:34:13 <nslater> but, meh, whateverz!
16:34:26 <nelix> http://python.pastebin.com/m31a06444 refactoring sugestions?
16:34:36 <sbp> yeah, use perl6
16:34:45 <nslater> screw this, spb's going back on ignore, cba maintaining more phenny hax right now!!!11
16:34:55 <zachb> what's the name of that non-internet JS interpreter thing...
16:35:01 <nslater> spidermonkey
16:35:05 <nslater> or...
16:35:09 <nslater> what's webkit's called?
16:35:17 <nslater> fish donky or something
16:35:19 <nelix> jskit?
16:35:30 <nslater> .g webkit javascript
16:35:31 <phenny> nslater: http://webkit.org/projects/javascript/index.html
16:35:45 <nelix> zachb: rhino?
16:35:46 <spb> wait what
16:35:48 <zachb> Yeah!
16:35:49 <chandler> .g squirrelfish
16:35:49 <phenny> chandler: http://webkit.org/blog/189/announcing-squirrelfish/
16:35:53 <nelix> zachb: kjs? qtscript?
16:35:58 <nslater> yay! squirrelfish!
16:36:02 <zachb> no wait, not quite
16:36:09 <zachb> ...argh...
16:36:16 <nslater> fish donkey is clearly superior
16:37:00 <zachb> ;p
16:37:09 *** zachb changed the topic to: "<nslater> fish donkey is clearly superior"
16:37:16 <nslater> nelix: im a nit picker, but I would read PEP 8 and reformat! :D
16:37:25 <sbp> perl6
16:37:28 <zachb> yay PEP :D
16:37:29 <Monty> searchmash is ether going for 75 quid?
16:37:38 <zachb> hush, monty
16:37:49 <Monty> but, i cba maintaining more likyl to eval) i got to resolve the proxy and values, try http://bytesexual.org/WORD where x and values, try something called Angels & Yasuji Ohagi - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Döner_kebab
16:37:54 <nelix> nslater: nit picking is pretty much what i was asking for
16:38:35 <nslater> Monty: you're clearly spending too much around me
16:38:36 <Monty> Saddam smells accelerator.
16:38:43 <nslater> k.
16:38:46 *** Alex (i=hauntedu@goatse.co.uk) has joined #swhack
16:38:49 <Alex> HI INTERNET POLICE HERE
16:38:51 <nslater> oh lawd
16:38:52 <sbp> Alex: WHAT
16:38:59 <nslater> spb has called the cavelry
16:39:04 <spb> lolz
16:39:12 <nelix> there needs to be a .pep function
16:39:13 <zachb> HI INTERNET POLICE
16:39:14 <Monty> Woah, dude, chill out...
16:39:16 <nslater> lol
16:39:18 <nelix> .g pep8
16:39:19 <spb> wait what
16:39:19 <phenny> nelix: http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/
16:39:24 <nelix> there it is.
16:39:28 <zachb> what was that for?
16:39:37 <sbp> too many vowels in his name
16:39:40 <sbp> harsh but fair
16:39:53 <spb> fair enough
16:39:55 *** chandler is now known as chndlr
16:39:57 * chndlr hids
16:39:57 <nslater> sbp, i feel that kicks are better with the reason "LOL"
16:40:16 * MacTed counts vowels in his name and cowers
16:40:16 <nslater> loggy: url
16:40:19 <sbp> yeah, I used the X-Chat GUI interface
16:40:29 <sbp> because, apparently, I sux
16:40:35 *** danja__ (n=danny@host7-25-dynamic.9-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #swhack
16:40:36 <zachb> aww
16:40:38 <nslater> damn loggy
16:40:47 <chndlr> ^^ lqqk! 2 vowls in 'nslater'
16:40:53 <nslater> .g swhack logs
16:40:54 <phenny> nslater: http://inamidst.com/stuff/2008/logbytes
16:40:54 <nslater> weird
16:40:55 * zachb counts vowels in his name and feels safe
16:41:05 <nslater> weird first hit, that is
16:41:07 <nelix> what is loggy writen in?
16:41:20 <zachb> For all we know, shell!
16:41:22 <spb> X-Chat sucks
16:41:22 <nslater> though i say that my website is 5th result in google for "women licking cats"
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16:41:50 <darobin> OMG, a community-wide style guide, python hackers *are* indeed fascists
16:41:55 <nslater> "girls licking cats" rather
16:42:02 <darobin> I always suspected it, but it's worse than I thought!
16:42:04 <spb> nslater is a furry?
16:42:16 <nslater> darobin: actually, it's only a style guide for the stdlin
16:42:17 <darobin> it's PyGatacca really
16:42:20 <nslater> stdlib
16:42:28 <darobin> ah, mkay
16:42:29 <nslater> but it's considererd a Good Thing to follow it anyway
16:42:40 <spb> FASCISTS
16:43:24 <darobin> Supremo Guido To The Revolutiono!
16:44:00 * sbp runs for the hills
16:44:24 <nelix> .g women licking cats
16:44:26 <phenny> nelix: http://wc.arizona.edu/papers/98/235/02_3.html
16:44:26 <darobin> actually I think what I was reaching for was "Guido of the First of September Great Revolution of the Socialist People's Libyan Arab Jamahiriya""
16:44:41 *** libby has quit ("Leaving")
16:44:46 <sbp> nslater: spb enquires of you whether you have an incination to the effects and demonstrances that are common to those whom are ycleped "furries" in the vulgar colloquialisms of the generic rabble. only he didn't phrase it so fucking awesomely of course
16:44:50 <nelix> .g girls licking cats
16:44:51 <phenny> nelix: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQERRckwaIw
16:45:04 <spb> sbp: i did, however, spell it better
16:45:18 <nslater> bia is going slow
16:45:22 <sbp> blame Canada!
16:45:49 <zachb> everyone blames Canada!
16:45:54 <spb> i don't
16:45:56 <sbp> it is rather the thing to do
16:45:56 <spb> i blame the US
16:45:58 <zachb> We should blame newfoundland instead :D
16:46:02 <nslater> my standard response to spb is foadiaf, incase i am not around to provide one manually
16:46:04 <sbp> hmm. good point
16:46:15 <zachb> spb: foadiaf!
16:46:27 <spb> NO U
16:46:36 <spb> also lol at nslater
16:47:02 <sbp> then again, I think that "blame Canada" is an intrinsically ironic commentary on that social axis that America and Canadia typefies; that of the belligerent older brother always shagging whores and getting 'em knocked up, and the younger weedy brother who's trying to do good at school but he's always so captivated by his brother...
16:47:27 <sbp> so it's like, blame the younger brother. Squirty is to blame
16:47:34 *** libby (n=libby@92-237-82-160.cable.ubr17.azte.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #swhack
16:48:17 <sbp> whilst everyone *knows* that it's the older brother who ought to be shipped off to a Barry Manilow concert in a cave on Mars
16:48:29 <nslater> oh man, barry manilow
16:48:44 <sbp> took me ages to remember his name
16:48:52 <sbp> I could see his nose, but the name just wouldn't come
16:49:02 <sbp> so I imagined and even BIGGER nose, growing and growing in size
16:49:17 <sbp> until it overshadowed the whole earth and everything we hold dear
16:49:21 <sbp> "oh, Barry Manilow!"
16:49:31 <sbp> s/and/an/
16:49:59 <sbp> right, have we stopped talking about technobunkum now? good
16:50:09 <sbp> my work is done, for now...
16:54:19 *** BigJibby (n=matt@142.46.8.22) has joined #swhack
16:54:19 <Monty> bah, it's BigJibby again
16:54:38 <BigJibby> shut it, Monty
16:54:40 <Monty> lovable IRC destroys purple bullets.
17:06:06 *** danja_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17:07:12 <nelix> pep8 is long
17:08:00 <nelix> although mostly done applying principles, besides commenting...
17:11:16 <_bjoern> NO NOT THE PURPLE BULLETS
17:21:36 *** libby has quit ("Leaving")
17:23:57 <zachb> The Purple 8 Ball says: Ask again later
17:24:00 <zachb> The Purple 8 Ball says: Certainly
17:25:00 *** danja_ (n=danny@host222-24-dynamic.9-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #swhack
17:25:37 *** MoiraA has quit (Remote closed the connection)
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17:29:34 <_bjoern> Monty, remind me in six minutes to GET TEH HELL OUTTA HERE
17:29:35 <Monty> Example of correct usage: "Remind me in 15 minutes to check the oven." I understand all combinations of days, hours and minutes.
17:32:37 *** libby (n=libby@92-237-82-160.cable.ubr17.azte.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #swhack
17:33:20 *** nsh (n=nsh@87-94-146-186.tampere.customers.dnainternet.fi) has joined #swhack
17:35:56 <_bjoern> U SUX MONTY
17:35:57 <Monty> lolz
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17:41:06 <nelix> nslater: http://python.pastebin.com/m755af102
17:41:28 *** danja__ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17:41:49 <zachb> nelix: that's a nice # of lines
17:41:58 <zachb> 2 ^ 6, perfect square...
17:42:01 <zachb> 6 + 4 = 10
17:42:15 <nelix> i do love such numbers
17:42:16 <nslater> i would add a newline after the class decl and remove the double newlines around it
17:42:19 <nelix> it was 63
17:42:23 <nslater> but the last bit is contra to pep 8
17:42:26 <nslater> but i do it anyway
17:42:37 <zachb> wait, we're just fixing this for PEP?
17:42:49 <nelix> i was looking for comments slighty broader
17:42:50 <nslater> i would also move the inline comment down onto it's own line
17:42:57 <nslater> and wrap
17:43:05 <nelix> but i mean if pep related comments are the only feedback i can get, I guess i'll fix it :P
17:43:20 <zachb> Noo! Then it'll be 65!
17:43:25 <nelix> the comment commenting the bad practice it's next too :P?
17:43:30 <nslater> I would also replace all ' with " :)
17:43:47 <nelix> you could help me fix the issue the comment exiests for :P
17:44:05 <nslater> im already swapping with other issues :)
17:44:39 <nelix> als while True: looks heaps sketchy to me
17:44:42 <nelix> also*
17:44:42 <Monty> awesome game yet
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17:47:31 *** leobard has quit ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
17:49:20 <Arnia> I'm not dealing with any of this very well...
17:49:30 <Arnia> think I'm going to throw myself into packing
17:52:50 <sbp> do you have to move back now?
17:59:48 <zachb> Argh...
18:01:40 <Arnia> sbp: well, I have to move somewhere
18:01:58 <sbp> oic
18:02:01 <sbp> hmm
18:02:21 <sbp> well that sucks
18:05:53 <Arnia> So does everything about this situation. I don't have the career I've planned for since I was a kid, I don't have the house I want, I'm not going to see my friends again, and the research project I've been dreaming of since I was 12 is gone.
18:06:03 <Arnia> Whoop(!)
18:07:12 <sbp> mass sympathy, mang
18:07:23 <sbp> let's hope you can turn it around somehow, anyhow, at some point
18:08:00 <sbp> try not to quit in despair though...
18:08:19 <sbp> if you've been dreaming of it for that long, it's gotta be worth maximising every possibility, even if it looks really small
18:08:51 *** yroc (n=yroc@dslb-084-059-208-202.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #swhack
18:08:55 <Arnia> actually, I think it is futile
18:08:57 <sbp> u cans do it etc.
18:09:03 <sbp> yroc: welcomes and stuffs
18:09:28 <sbp> Arnia: even in ten years or something?
18:09:58 *** chndlr is now known as chandler
18:10:22 <Arnia> I would have been out of the loop for too long
18:10:50 <Arnia> And to survive in a desk job, I'm going to have to remake myself into a boring twat
18:11:10 <Arnia> Someone who is actually capable of doing stuff by rote forever more
18:11:19 <chandler> not all desk jobs are like that
18:11:32 <chandler> it's just one of those areas where sturgeon's law holds 99% of the time
18:11:40 <Arnia> all the ones I've seen advertised are
18:11:47 <Arnia> I'm not planning on small probabilities any more
18:12:13 <chandler> well, playing it safe and boring twat do go together
18:12:37 <Arnia> I need to clear my debts, or I'm likely to go bankrupt
18:13:01 <Arnia> Credit card and overdraft
18:13:17 <chandler> here in America we just spend and spend until we go bankrupt
18:13:29 <Arnia> :p
18:13:32 <chandler> and if you got a home loan you can't afford, just walk away from it
18:13:41 <chandler> it's the American way, I guess
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18:15:48 * sbp grumbles at the poor system
18:16:05 *** KiYanWang (n=KiYanWan@92-236-140-6.cable.ubr09.smal.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #swhack
18:16:05 <Monty> welcome, KiYanWang
18:16:25 <sbp> yroc: what's up?
18:16:35 <sbp> yroc: how'd you find your way here?
18:16:46 <sbp> this is a secret channel, note (+s)
18:16:56 <sbp> even if loafers like nslater and Alex somehow made their way here
18:16:58 *** Talliesin has quit ("Leaving.")
18:17:26 <procto> I don't remember how I got here
18:17:29 <procto> hmmm
18:17:50 <yroc> oh hi
18:17:58 <yroc> i googled 'secret channel'
18:18:13 <sbp> makes sense
18:18:16 <yroc> kthxbye!
18:18:17 *** yroc has parted #swhack ()
18:18:58 <sbp> filtering <3
18:19:06 *** KiYanWang has quit (Client Quit)
18:19:08 <procto> filtering?
18:19:11 <_bjoern> You better be nicer to people joining from german hosts from now on.
18:19:13 <_bjoern> OR ELSE.
18:19:24 <sbp> challenging people as to why they've joined seems to eliminate 90% of them
18:19:31 <procto> heh
18:19:36 <sbp> note the isomorphism with Sturgeon's Law. COINCIDENCE?!
18:19:37 <procto> I remember the hazing I got :>
18:19:52 <procto> but I'm an old jaded veteran so it didn't phase (faze?) me
18:20:01 <deltab> faze
18:20:06 <sbp> .dict faze
18:20:06 <phenny> faze - 1. fluster somebody
18:20:11 <sbp> .ety faze
18:20:11 <deltab> .ety faze
18:20:11 <phenny> "1830 Amer.Eng. variant of Kentish dialect feeze 'to frighten, alarm, discomfit' (c.1440), from O.E. fesian, fysian 'drive away,' from P.Gmc. *fausjanan." - http://etymonline.com/?term=faze
18:20:14 <phenny> "1830 Amer.Eng. variant of Kentish dialect feeze 'to frighten, alarm, discomfit' (c.1440), from O.E. fesian, fysian 'drive away,' from P.Gmc. *fausjanan." - http://etymonline.com/?term=faze
18:20:19 <chandler> .gc fazing
18:20:19 <phenny> fazing: 47,000
18:20:28 <procto> hehe, I guess "phasing" someone would involve changing their state
18:20:30 <sbp> Kentish dialect? interesting
18:20:31 <procto> perhaps into a gas
18:20:34 <_bjoern> .title http://management.silicon.com/careers/0,39024671,39250909,00.htm
18:20:37 <phenny> _bjoern: UK students outsource IT coursework to India - Management - Breaking Business and Technology News at silicon.com
18:20:47 <sbp> ooh, or one of the superstates
18:20:49 <sbp> PLASMA
18:20:56 <nelix> Arnia: what was your dream?
18:21:06 <procto> .title http://welcometotardville.blogspot.com/2008/06/your-friday-marathon-runner-pooping.html
18:21:08 <_bjoern> These Euro2008 days I sometimes wonder why people don't play ctf on the streets.
18:21:09 <phenny> procto: Welcome to Tardville: Your Friday Marathon Runner Pooping Himself
18:21:20 <sbp> ctf?
18:21:36 <_bjoern> .gd ctf
18:21:36 <phenny> ctf: An impound account maintained for the purpose of setting up a reserve to pay certain periodic obligations such as real property taxes, insurance ...
18:21:39 <_bjoern> .wik ctf
18:21:46 <phenny> "Canadian Teachers' Federation" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ctf
18:21:49 <_bjoern> suxxage
18:21:53 <_bjoern> Capture The Flag of course.
18:22:05 <_bjoern> .wik Capture the flag
18:22:06 <phenny> "Capture the flag (CTF) is a traditional outdoor sport often played by children or sometimes adults where two teams each have a flag (or other marker) and the objective is to capture the other team's flag, located at the team's 'base', and bring it back to their own base." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capture_the_flag
18:22:10 <nelix> this is by far the most easy going, technical and silly channels on freenode
18:22:20 <sbp> I believe that CTF is an American game
18:22:25 <procto> Help Exchange looks really interesting
18:22:26 <sbp> so I'm not entirely sure of its existence
18:22:30 <sbp> nelix: nu
18:22:41 <_bjoern> ILL SHOW U EASY GOIN
18:22:43 <procto> .title http://helpx.net
18:22:45 <phenny> procto: Help Exchange: free volunteer work abroad Australia New Zealand Canada Europe
18:22:47 <sbp> hehe
18:22:54 <procto> and US, too
18:23:05 <procto> you basically help people for 4-6 hrs a day in some project
18:23:09 <procto> and they let you live there and eat
18:23:40 <procto> there's a guy a couple of hours north of me who will be restoring a yacht and needs help
18:23:46 <procto> he will teach the helper how to do it
18:23:54 <procto> and in return can cruish on it with him
18:23:59 <procto> from maine to the carribean
18:24:00 <sbp> hmm, [origin of capture the flag] is most unhelpful
18:24:22 <procto> we played some variant of CTF in Israel
18:24:23 <_bjoern> Yes, everybody needs yacht restauration skills on their cv!
18:24:24 <chandler> I think it originated in Quake
18:24:29 <chandler> then it turned into a popular children's game
18:24:34 *** pixel (n=pixel@pond.leapfroginteractive.com) has joined #swhack
18:24:35 <Monty> hey pixel
18:24:36 <_bjoern> procto: phunny!
18:24:37 <chandler> YET ANOTHER POOR INFLUENCE OF VIOLENT GAMES
18:24:39 <_bjoern> yo pixel!
18:24:47 <sbp> chandler: "In 1992, Richard Carr released a MS-DOS based game called Capture the Flag. It is a turn based strategy game with real time network / modem play (or play-by-mail) based around the traditional outdoor game."
18:24:50 <procto> chandler: def played it prior to quake
18:24:53 <sbp> yo pixel
18:25:04 <chandler> sbp: yes, I played that
18:25:05 <pixel> yo sbp. long time no see.
18:25:15 <sbp> what up mang?
18:26:05 <pixel> beating head against PHP.
18:26:27 <nelix> seems reasonable
18:26:36 <nelix> (beating your head, not so much the php)
18:26:51 <sbp> check it out:
18:26:52 <sbp> http://books.google.com/books?client=firefox-a&um=1&q="capture+the+flag"+date%3A1900-1985
18:27:09 <sbp> quite a few olde results, but none particularly verifiable
18:27:48 <_bjoern> .gc "Handbook for Boys"
18:27:49 <phenny> "Handbook for Boys": 141,000
18:28:23 <sbp> trouble is, all the journals seem to be dated to their inception
18:28:34 <_bjoern> .title http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/06/23/ford_focus_chip/
18:28:34 <phenny> _bjoern: Leeds thieves target Ford Focus chips | The Register
18:28:43 <sbp> not to the date of the issue wherein the results were found
18:29:03 <sbp> "There has been an ongoing rumour for a number of years now that a chip within a stereo from a Ford Focus can be put into a Sky box and you receive free Sky television."
18:29:47 <sbp> .title http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/06/20/devil_dog_photo/
18:29:47 <phenny> sbp: Croydon devil dog execution: Exclusive photo | The Register
18:29:58 <_bjoern> Seems the terrorists are finally winning, "US SENATORS are telling their own Customs and Border Protection services to back off from searching laptops and other electronic devices without the need for reasonable suspicion of a crime or probable cause." - http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/06/26/senators-laptop-searches
18:30:05 *** lorvax1 has quit ("real work beckons")
18:30:40 <nelix> what happens when all your data is on a hiden partition
18:30:42 <sbp> ugh. they'll never learn
18:30:47 <nelix> i mean what depths do they goto
18:31:00 <nelix> do they just like look on your desktop for beastality?
18:31:47 <nelix> or do they have magic scanners that do OBR?
18:32:33 <sbp> they just sodomise anybody who does the old "is that a truncheon in your pocket, or..." joke
18:34:03 <radii> There are a few dozen reports of CBP seizing laptops, imaging the hard drives, and then returning them.
18:34:31 <radii> also more sporadic reports of images being taken at the border without seizure.
18:34:41 <thelsdj> .wik Queen's Truncheon
18:34:42 <phenny> "The Queen's Truncheon is a ceremonial staff carried by the Royal Gurkha Rifles that serves as the equivalent of and is carried as the Colour." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen's_Truncheon
18:34:44 <thelsdj> no pics :(
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18:36:59 <_bjoern> phenny, de "Elfmeterschießen"?
18:36:59 <phenny> _bjoern: "Penalty shootout" (de to en, translate.google.com)
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18:40:01 <_bjoern> haha total england pwnage http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rangliste_der_Nationalmannschaften_bei_Elfmeterschie%C3%9Fen
18:41:15 <sbp> wait, we're right next to the Netherlands?
18:41:17 <sbp> fine by me!
18:41:28 <sbp> also, Spain vs. Italy!
18:41:41 <_bjoern> well depends on sort order naturally
18:43:34 *** Xanthor|aw has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:43:40 <_bjoern> Well spain won that, that's why they play russia today.
18:44:15 <sbp> er wait, Russia vs. Spain even. heh
18:44:21 <sbp> yeah
18:44:28 <sbp> totally out of sync
18:44:45 <sbp> Spain vs. Italy was so boring I'm still expecting it to happen
18:45:42 <deltab> Channel 4 News talkning about a 1974 tightrope walk
18:45:43 *** Xanthor|aw (n=Xanthor@ALyon-257-1-165-172.w90-48.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #swhack
18:45:43 <Monty> hey Xanthor|aw
18:46:15 <deltab> (between the WTC towers)
18:48:11 <sbp> kickoff
19:08:49 <sbp> it's booketing down with rains
19:09:30 *** chris2 has quit ("Leaving")
19:10:25 <_bjoern> That's intentional, as cost reduction measure they are sharing the field tonight with boygroup music video producers.
19:10:42 <sbp> ha!
19:13:46 <sbp> lightnings
19:14:08 <sbp> one commentator expresses nerves at sitting amongst so much electrical equipment. the other one replies "hold tight"
19:14:18 <zachb> .u combining umlaut
19:14:19 <phenny> zachb: Sorry, no results for 'combining umlaut'.
19:14:27 <zachb> .u umlaut combining
19:14:38 <chandler> .u combining diaresis
19:14:39 <phenny> chandler: Sorry, no results for 'combining diaresis'.
19:14:54 <chandler> .u combining diaeresis
19:14:54 <phenny> U+0308 COMBINING DIAERESIS (◌̈)
19:22:11 <sbp> hmm, David Villa off
19:22:29 <zachb> sbp: is media allowed to be used in nomilang? (i.e. images)
19:22:32 <sbp> injured himself taking a free kick apparently
19:22:43 <sbp> zachb: not as designed, but obviously you can adapt it as you like
19:23:11 <zachb> So when you did it, you didn't use any,
19:23:16 <zachb> (that's what I meant to ask :P)
19:23:31 <sbp> I've not played nomilang
19:23:35 <sbp> I was going to start a game
19:23:42 <sbp> but then I had too much else to do
19:25:26 <zachb> heh
19:25:40 <zachb> I'm starting one... I'm trying to test an idea ;-)
19:25:40 <Monty> http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/99-Metal-Gear-Solid-4
19:25:55 <sbp> Monty: did you watch it? what did you think of it?
19:25:57 <Monty> RU : ( ( reminds (2), freedoms (2)
19:26:02 <sbp> kk
19:26:19 *** danja has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:28:33 <jsled> ))
19:28:39 <jsled> tsk tsk Monty
19:28:40 <Monty> 20:05 <salvage> lol, duno
19:29:05 <salvage> wot?
19:29:29 <sbp> those weren't parens, they were dual smileys
19:29:31 <jsled> yeah, Monty. wot?
19:29:33 <Monty> http://img.4chan.org/b/src/1214452592180.jpg
19:29:37 <sbp> ((
19:29:53 <chandler> Monty: 404'd!!
19:29:54 <_bjoern> ::
19:29:58 <sbp> thx
19:29:59 <Monty> "In 1992, Richard Carr released a language until you go into wc * because *: from german fans wild
19:30:03 <_bjoern> yw
19:30:36 <_bjoern> some noises now?
19:32:14 <sbp> Monty: give us some noises now
19:32:17 <Monty> ironic Bill Gates excretes unreleased love life >:)
19:32:31 <_bjoern> ...
19:32:47 <sbp> Monty: a love life with what?
19:32:48 <Monty> someone with "yes"
19:32:58 <sbp> those are the best kinds of one
19:33:47 *** danja (n=danny@host207-207-dynamic.35-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #swhack
19:44:51 <nsh> mumbleporridge melee!
19:45:18 <_bjoern> apparently windows supports encodings that don't encode 8 and 9 (but do encode 1..7)
19:47:28 <sbp> ooh, is that a new feature?
19:48:12 <_bjoern> I am just going through the gaps in `select codePoint, count(*) as c from tab group by codePoint order by c desc limit 200;`
19:48:36 <_bjoern> I'd tell you the encodings if i could come up with the right sql for it...
19:48:59 <_bjoern> Other non-universal characters are e.g. H R and Y
19:51:16 <jsled> _bjoern: are the encodings in tab?
19:51:34 <_bjoern> layout is (id, codePoint, encoding, bytes)
19:54:23 <sbp> 1-0 Spain
19:54:27 <_bjoern> screamings
19:54:29 <_bjoern> aye
19:54:55 <sbp> the Crown Prince and his lady are pleased
19:54:59 <sbp> she especially
19:55:09 *** salvage has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.82.1 [Firefox 3.0/2008052906]")
19:55:33 * _bjoern wonders whether that's ' Russia 1 : 0 Spain ' or wtf it's written so oddly
19:56:51 <sbp> almost an awesome Torres goal
19:56:55 <sbp> 1-0 [to] Spain
19:58:45 <nsh> ISPAIN?!
19:58:56 <nsh> still play thems euro kickits?
19:59:10 <nsh> thortsmedid overdone thatonethere
20:01:06 <sbp> until Sunday, yeah
20:01:14 <sbp> no more kickits after Sunday
20:01:26 <nsh> man, there's a lot to be said for listening to choppybuffering susan blackmore rantles over scandinavian psytrance with chops of have i got news for you sporadisised over the mix
20:01:26 <sbp> Monday == kickitsless
20:01:45 <sbp> .wik Susan Blackmore
20:01:46 <phenny> "Susan Jane Blackmore (born 29 July 1951) is an English freelance writer, lecturer, and broadcaster on psychology and the paranormal, perhaps best known for her book The Meme Machine." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Blackmore
20:01:47 <nsh> whoa, but without the psytrance, she just sounds annoysome
20:01:52 <sbp> THE MEME MACHINE
20:01:55 <nsh> kinda like, well, how i imagined susan blackmore would sound
20:01:59 * nsh fixes winamp
20:02:06 <sbp> if I could eliminate three words, meme might well be one of them
20:02:42 * Arnia replaces meme with communicon
20:03:06 <procto> I have to say on the whole, I prefer "meme" to "communicon"
20:03:19 <deltab> http://www.spring.org.uk/2008/06/susan-blackmore-on-memes-and-temes.php
20:03:24 <procto> communicon sounds like something to come out of a 19th century british naturalist's journal
20:03:28 <deltab> (technological memes)
20:03:40 <nsh> is what i am the watch
20:03:51 <procto> temes is, on the other hand, a pretty horrible neologism
20:04:00 <nsh> srsly better with psytrance
20:04:19 <deltab> yeah
20:04:25 <sbp> yikes
20:04:39 <Arnia> procto: you have no taste
20:05:02 <nsh> procto is a panzer dragon
20:05:21 <procto> Arnia: I just don't like steampunk
20:05:41 <procto> Arnia: and communicon is totally something someone will inscribe on their fake goggles+steam pipes getup
20:05:46 <procto> :)
20:06:08 * Arnia hooks you up to an analytic engine
20:07:17 <nsh> okay, that started to become unbearable even with the music
20:07:28 * nsh upgrades himself to a lessblackmorian ted talk
20:07:45 <procto> nsh: were you listening to what deltab linked?
20:07:49 <procto> I could only last like a minute.
20:07:51 *** deltab changed the topic to: "Swhack: immanentizing the communicon"
20:08:48 *** _bjoern changed the topic to: "Swhack: immanentizing the communicorn"
20:09:53 <nsh> my NMDA receptors are being noncompetatively antagonised by ethanol, and i'm listing to well-crafted psychedelic aurality perturbation
20:09:56 <nsh> so i lasted a bit longer
20:11:36 * nsh had a dream yesterday where he wrote the word Eschaton on a wall mirror with toothpaste
20:12:02 <deltab> .gc unknowningly
20:12:03 <phenny> unknowningly: 17,300
20:12:09 <_bjoern> screaminx again
20:12:15 <_bjoern> but sounds more like "foul"?
20:12:21 <sbp> nsh: you know what it spells in the mirror?
20:12:22 <deltab> (spotted at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landau%2C_Luckman%2C_and_Lake)
20:12:35 <_bjoern> .gs Die Dicken Kinder von *
20:12:36 <phenny> Die Dicken Kinder von *: landau (46), deutschland (4), nebenan (3), herrenberg (3), spanien (2), laundau (2), künast (2), jena (2), halaa (2), deu (2), californien (2)
20:12:37 <sbp> nofbjcz3!
20:12:56 <_bjoern> Learning ru?
20:13:05 <sbp> ask nsh, it was his dream
20:13:46 <_bjoern> I always use the third party support.
20:15:06 <nslater> um... what the fuck
20:15:06 <Monty> potty mouth!
20:15:08 <nslater> .title http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5jienXKDbIYHNPcywgq84IqyHtbPw
20:15:08 <phenny> nslater: AFP: Internet body approves domain name big bang
20:15:33 <nslater> [[[
20:15:37 <nslater> Currently all web addresses fall under one of some 250 top-level domain names: .country or .territory domains, and generic ones such as .com, .net and .org, .gov, and .edu.
20:15:40 <nslater> Under the new system, the web's 1.3 billion users would be able from 2009 to buy an unlimited number of generic addresses based on common words, brands or company names, cities or proper names.
20:15:44
