2008-07-02 Swhack IRC Log

00:05:35 <jsled> .gc weiss wiess
00:05:36 <phenny> weiss wiess: 79,600
00:05:49 <jsled> .gcs weiss wiess
00:05:50 <phenny> weiss (236,000,000), wiess (221,000)
00:07:41 <_bjoern> weiss is white, wiess is nothing
00:07:49 <_bjoern> there is Wiese
00:07:55 <_bjoern> phenny, de "Wiese"?
00:07:56 <phenny> _bjoern: "Wiese" (de to en, translate.google.com)
00:07:59 <_bjoern> phenny, de "Wiesen"?
00:08:00 <phenny> _bjoern: "Meadows" (de to en, translate.google.com)
00:08:12 <jsled> phenny, de "Weizen"?
00:08:12 <phenny> jsled: "Wheat" (de to en, translate.google.com)
00:08:16 <_bjoern> Nickname for Oktoberfest
00:08:24 <_bjoern> Wies'n that is
00:08:31 <_bjoern> Weizen is Bier obviously
00:08:40 <_bjoern> Where Bier is beer.
00:09:19 * jsled ashamedly has just come to realize that Weiss is particularly sour beer (traditionally served with syrup), which is *not* what I brewed ... a more straightforward weizen.
00:09:24 <jsled> http://www.brew-journal.com/user/jsled/brew/8
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01:11:49 <deltab> _bjoern: are they challenging me to defy their challenge?
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01:12:31 <_bjoern> What else would they be doing!
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03:57:13 <jsled> Huh. It didn't really occur to me, but if you really wanted to crush shit, diamonds are a great way to go: http://www.answers.com/topic/diamond-anvil-cell?cat=technology
03:57:34 <jsled> Where s/crush/pressurize/
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08:37:51 <sbp> yo
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08:45:30 <_bjoern> Hello sbp. I am currently loling at a Mozilla bug that only I and Blizzard care about.
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08:47:05 <sbp> heh, that is a pretty odd one to get wrong
08:47:30 <_bjoern> Mozilla is like total ass crap when it comes to uri handling.
08:48:01 <nsh> UUUNNNNNCLLEEEEAAAANNNN
08:48:09 <_bjoern> yes.
08:48:13 <nsh> UUUUUUUNNNNNNNNNNCCCCCCLLLLLLEEEEAAAAANNNNN
08:48:30 <_bjoern> You haven't been shot lately, have you.
08:49:19 <sbp> shotten with nooks
08:49:37 <_bjoern> No OKs?
08:51:15 <_bjoern> bwhahahaha https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=429558
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09:14:16 <nsh> .gs no * is an island
09:14:18 <phenny> no * is an island: man (138), geek (6), feed (3), woman (2), religion (2), reader (2), mutant (2), island (2), country (2), community (2), blog (2), archive (2)
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09:27:17 <nsh> UUUUUUUUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
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09:43:12 <mahound> hello
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09:54:04 <_bjoern> In the category "Oh I thought they fixed that long ago" today is http://www.f-secure.com/weblog/archives/00001463.html
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10:32:26 <deltab> nsh: Uncle Ann?
10:32:53 <sbp> bwahaha
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10:52:21 * nsh a choxelanto
10:52:27 <nsh> fortisima
10:53:38 * nsh frowns
11:01:04 <sbp> no mutant is an island?
11:02:54 <spb> no island is a mutant
11:04:22 <sbp> are you sure, Dave?
11:14:25 <_bjoern> Surely, Brain and Pinky
11:17:12 <_bjoern> lolnews http://www.worldvaluessurvey.org/happinesstrends/
11:20:12 <_bjoern> [[[
11:20:30 <_bjoern> Many other countries show clear trends toward rising happiness. Indeed, among the countries for which we have long-term data, 19 of the 26 countries show rising happiness levels. In several of these countries -- India, Ireland, Mexico, Puerto Rico and South Korea -- there are steeply rising trends. The other countries with rising trends are ...
11:20:35 <_bjoern> ... Argentina, Canada, China, Denmark, Finland, France, Italy, Japan, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Poland, South Africa, Spain and Sweden. Three countries (the U.S., Switzerland and Norway) show flat trends from the earliest to latest available survey. Only four countries (Austria, Belgium, the U.K. and West Germany) show downward trends.
11:20:36 <_bjoern> ]]]
11:25:56 <Morbus> nslater, jsled: two trophies down, 15 more to go! ;)
11:28:17 <nsh> who annexed west germany?!?
11:28:46 <nsh> .gs who annexed *
11:28:47 <phenny> who annexed *: a (4), the (3), egypt (3), punjab (2), italy around (2), him (2), eritrea (2)
11:28:50 <_bjoern> The same people who keep the metric system down
11:28:54 <nsh> ah, thems
11:29:05 <nsh> got my vote, wink, and nod then
11:30:55 <_bjoern> I like how they leave atlantis off the maps and the martians under wraps.
11:31:00 <nsh> .ety fervent
11:31:01 <phenny> "1340, from L. fervens (gen. ferventis) 'glowing,' prp. of fervere 'to boil, glow,' from PIE base *bhreu- (see brew)." - http://etymonline.com/?term=fervent
11:31:43 <nsh> _bjoern, and some sterling work on maintaining the unviability of the electric car
11:31:44 <nsh> iirc
11:32:00 <_bjoern> That I like less.
11:33:59 <sbp> we do! we do!
11:34:07 <_bjoern> shhhhht!
11:34:11 <nsh> {!}
11:34:24 <nsh> n5h, disinfoplskx
11:34:26 <n5h> so i can't own faults, i'm a bit of information into the deep mysteries of human language and thought then? always wanting the moon show periodic behaviour.
11:34:43 <nsh> THEEEE MOOOON
11:34:56 <nsh> # IS NEVER REALLY PERIODIC #
11:36:14 <nsh> n5h, how are you working on requisitioning the moon right now?
11:36:16 <n5h> belay that order, number one. crschmidt.
11:36:32 <nsh> n5h, insubordination will not be tolerated, guy!
11:36:32 * nslater choxelles at Morbus
11:36:33 <n5h> show me your war face! you call that a war face? (actually not bad. 24 hours on a incorrect (paradigmatically unviable model of brain operation is a great story.
11:36:42 <Morbus> nslater: hey!
11:36:57 <Morbus> nslater: i woke up first thing this morning and made breakfast. whilst she was eating, i downloaded the updates! ;)
11:36:59 <_bjoern> .gcs "war ass" "war face"
11:37:00 <phenny> "war face" (98,400), "war ass" (7,220)
11:37:02 <nsh> n5h RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRR
11:37:03 <n5h> many problems are intractable because of necessity. so, necessitous one, increase your need." -rumi (sufi mystic. right.
11:37:04 <nslater> lawl
11:37:10 <nsh> wtf
11:37:22 <_bjoern> .gc "war arse"
11:37:23 <phenny> "war arse": 100
11:37:39 <nsh> .gc "intractable because of necessity"
11:37:39 <phenny> "intractable because of necessity": 0
11:37:52 <nsh> n5h, no paraphrasing rumi
11:37:53 <n5h> cre8radix? 1827.
11:38:31 <nsh> .wik 1827 year
11:38:33 <phenny> "Year 1827 (MDCCCXXVII) was a common year starting on Monday (link will display the full calendar) of the Gregorian Calendar (or a common year starting on Saturday of the 12-day slower Julian calendar)." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1827
11:38:44 <nsh> NOOOO
11:39:00 <nsh> so, the gregorians speeded up the earth!?
11:39:30 <nsh> n5h, current earth orbital velocity pls?
11:39:31 <n5h> icms? or incontinental misiles.
11:39:45 <nsh> n5h, stop taking the piss
11:39:46 <n5h> makes me laugh. i'm thinking of something awesome to code that. evil. evil evil . anyone remember those little foam shrimp and banana sweets?
11:40:01 <nslater> yes, nom nom nom
11:40:11 <nsh> n5h, om nom that order, number 1
11:40:12 <n5h> with the enormous concrete sarcophagus of a millimeter further away... ooo?
11:40:47 <nsh> n5h, you're a flakey freakin' honkey, is what you are
11:40:49 <n5h> ah.
11:42:19 <nsh> n5h, have you considered Yale Divinity School?
11:42:20 <n5h> http://inamidst.com/code/.
11:45:14 <Morbus> nslater: http://www.ps3trophies.org/game/super-stardust-hd/trophies/
11:46:02 <_bjoern> .title http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document&doi=10.1371/journal.pmed.0050141&ct=1
11:46:03 <phenny> _bjoern: PLoS Medicine - Toward a Global View of Alcohol, Tobacco, Cannabis, and Cocaine Use: Findings from the WHO World Mental Health Surveys
11:46:28 <nslater> "*requires Add-On*" hmmm?
11:47:00 <Morbus> yeah. there are two add ons to sshd.
11:47:06 <Morbus> each 4.99
11:48:08 <nslater> man, joel on software has really jumped the shark
11:48:11 <nslater> .title http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2008/07/01.html
11:48:11 <phenny> nslater: Don't hide or disable menu items - Joel on Software
11:48:56 <nslater> Morbus: I could do about 8 or 9 of them before I got really bored :)
11:49:08 <Morbus> i've gotten the 1st world and the No Boost one this morning.
11:49:22 <Morbus> been working on normal mode. just got to the end boss of 2, but died.
11:49:39 <Morbus> and, now i have to go to work. so it'll be another 12 hours before i can play again.
11:49:40 * Morbus sighs.
11:49:42 <nslater> hehe
11:50:23 <Morbus> nslater: so, we should do this co-op trophy
11:50:27 <Morbus> http://www.ps3trophies.org/forum/showpost.php?p=2572&postcount=3
11:50:30 * Morbus grins.
11:50:34 <nslater> lawl, mebbe :p
11:50:41 <Morbus> oh, wait, i can do it with two controllers.
11:50:47 <Morbus> damn. needto buy new controller.
11:50:47 <nslater> i need to get my ass of second life and get mgs first :p
11:50:48 <Morbus> <g>
11:50:53 <nslater> hahaha
11:53:33 <Morbus> yeah, everyone's whining on the boards about having to get the add-ons.
11:53:41 <Morbus> but that's nothing really odd. the 360 does it too
11:59:13 <nslater> bah... im lack of good games out at the moment
11:59:26 <nslater> bring on COD 5 I say, or something with Sam Fisher in XD
12:02:18 <sbp> “After ten months, a specially made womb breaks open and humans are born.”
12:02:20 <sbp> — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atra-Hasis
12:07:31 <nsh> i had that dream once
12:15:34 <clsn> Wow, 18th Century Akkadian. I wonder if it was all Babylonian steampunk...
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12:30:59 <nsh> [[[
12:31:01 <nsh> At the very bottom of both formations, there are distinctly different dot patterns. The Arecibo message had a depiction of the telescope that sent the message with an indicated size of 2,430 feet. The crop formation had a depiction of something else with a size of 6,748 feet. This shape was depicted even more clearly in a 2000 Chilbolton crop circle and is clearly fractal in nature. We may deduce from the replacement of the Arecibo dish with this fractal pattern t
12:31:24 <nsh> ]]] more pulitzer-worthy reporting from random WP editors: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arecibo_reply
12:31:35 <nsh> ("...We may deduce from the replacement of the Arecibo dish with this fractal pattern that their equivalent form of communication utilizes a fractal structure to magnify and/or concentrate some sort of energy.")
12:34:28 * sbp reads... hehe, that's awesome
12:34:34 <Morbus> w. t. f!
12:34:36 <Morbus> lol
12:34:48 * Morbus reads
12:34:56 <sbp> [[[
12:34:57 <sbp> As with all crop circles, the origin of the Arecibo reply is highly debated. It should of course be noted that the time between the signal being sent from Arecibo in 1974 and the crop circle appearing in 2001, approximately 27 years, is nowhere near long enough for the Arecibo Message to reach its destination, the M13 cluster, which would take over 25 thousand years to reach.
12:34:58 <sbp> ]]]
12:35:12 <nsh> NUH UH!"!
12:35:18 <sbp> so they must have a listening station in the Kuiper Belt or something
12:35:23 <Morbus> i love the casual "of course" in there.
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12:38:35 <Morbus> "Because it will take 25,000 years for the message to reach its intended destination of stars (and an additional 25,000 years for any reply), the Arecibo message was more a demonstration of human technological achievement than a real attempt to enter into a conversation with extraterrestrials. In fact, the stars that the message was aimed at will no longer be there when it arrives.[1]"
12:38:37 <Morbus> -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arecibo_message
12:38:41 * Morbus chuckles.
12:39:06 <nsh> haha
12:39:12 <nsh> forward-thinking by SETI
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12:43:14 * nsh decides he's going to 'claim Poe'
12:43:17 <nsh> on everything toda
12:43:18 <nsh> y
12:43:34 <nsh> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Poe%27s+Law second def.'s example
12:43:59 <nsh> or, 1st def's, actually
12:44:38 <sbp> Morbus: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a5/Baylonianmaps.JPG
12:44:47 <sbp> http://members.optusnet.com.au/gtosiris/page11-11.html for more context
12:44:51 <sbp> world's oldest known map
12:45:15 <nsh> n'uh uh!
12:45:21 <nsh> world's oldest map is 1-1
12:46:32 <sbp> BIG MAP: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/50/TabulaPeutingeriana.jpg
12:46:34 <sbp> nsh: hehe
12:47:52 <nsh> wait
12:48:24 <nsh> does it count as a map if it bears no resemblance to the actual geometrical configuration of anything?
12:48:55 <nsh> oh
12:49:03 <nsh> it is geographical
12:49:18 <nsh> was misleadified by the term "cosmos"
12:49:58 <nsh> aha
12:50:00 <nsh> i got it
12:50:19 <nsh> the solution to religious batshitery
12:50:55 <nsh> resolution Poe conviction!
12:50:58 <nsh> *resolute
12:51:56 <sbp> neato: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nebra_sky_disk#History
12:51:58 <nsh> never, ever, give any nutcase cause to believe that you are not adamantly convinced that they are in fact a truly inspired genius of committed satire
12:52:26 <sbp> hehe, nutcases as satirists eh?
12:52:43 <sbp> accidental satirists of cultural madness
12:52:44 <nsh> eventually, i suspect, the unintentional comic superstars will become convinced of their own humourous proclivities
12:52:54 <sbp> hehe
12:53:54 <sbp> [[[
12:53:54 <sbp> There were initial suspicions that the disk might be an archaeological forgery. Peter Schauer of the University of Regensburg, Germany, argues that the Nebra disk is a fake. He is quoted as saying:
12:53:54 <sbp> "If you urinate on a piece of bronze and then hide it in the ground for a few weeks you can produce the same patina as on the disk."
12:53:55 <sbp> ]]]
12:54:27 * nsh makes note to write to Peter Schauer
12:54:31 <Morbus> that's freaking science right there.
12:54:36 <nsh> regailing with great gusto and detail
12:54:42 <nsh> my experiences resultant from his suggestion
12:54:48 <Morbus> either that guy did it, or he headed up a research team on the effects of urination on bronze.
12:54:50 <Morbus> i can just see the whiteboard.
12:54:55 <Morbus> "urinate. stick in freezer. FAIL."
12:55:00 <Morbus> "urinate. cover in whip cream. FAIL."
12:55:06 <Morbus> "urinate. mix with saliva. POSTPONED."
12:55:11 <nsh> rofl
12:56:34 <sbp> ehheh
12:59:39 <_bjoern> Hmm so <script>function onload() { alert(1) }</script> alerts in Firefox but not in Opera or IE...
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13:38:56 <sbp> loggy: uri?
13:38:56 <loggy> http://swhack.com/logs/2008-07-02#T13-38-56
13:39:03 <nslater> hmmz, I'm trying to figure out this:
13:39:07 <nslater> .title http://www.johnmwillis.com/ibm/do-we-need-a-cloud-standard-or-just-one-good-old-it-management-standard/
13:39:41 <phenny> nslater: Do we need a cloud standard or just one good old IT management standard? | IT Management and Cloud Blog
13:40:24 <nslater> im trying to work out what his is about, is it keyword stuffing, clickthrough baiting, pointless namedropping, a serious blog, someone who's obsessed with the words "cloud" and "IT infrastructure" or the results of a markov chain
13:40:56 <nslater> there's something about it which just doesn't feel quite right, and I cant put my finger on it....
13:41:00 <sbp> phew, for a moment I thought you were reading it to discern its meaning
13:41:04 <sbp> as though there were some
13:41:11 <nslater> thats the thing, it's totally vacuous
13:41:16 <nslater> but sounds like it shouldnt be
13:41:23 <nslater> which makes me wonder, why bother writing it
13:41:51 <nslater> damn, internets are weirdz
13:42:32 <sbp> ahahaha. this mixed metaphor ought to win awards:
13:42:34 <sbp> “LAMP stack applications seem to be the meat and potatoes of today’s clouds, however”
13:42:46 <nslater> hahahaha
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13:43:01 <sbp> LOOK OUT MA, IT'S RAININ' AGIN
13:43:05 <nslater> ... I got most of the way though, but his writing was starting to make me trip out and get dizzy, so I stopped
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13:43:58 <nslater> another one...
13:44:00 <nslater> "I believe the the basic “How do I manage IT” discussion needs be addressed first before we can isolate in on what the cloud brings to the table."
13:44:19 <nslater> ... i dont think "cloud" should be mixed with other metaphors, it really doesnt work
13:44:46 <nslater> lol, the cloud brings meat and potatoes to the table, which is kinda win :p
13:44:50 <sbp> hehe
13:45:11 <sbp> I'm just going to blame postmodernism
13:45:15 <sbp> postmodernism and the liberal media
13:45:25 <nslater> omg...
13:45:36 <nslater> i found the best sentence of the whole thing, and its going into the topic
13:46:34 *** nslater changed the topic to: "Swhack: It is important for cloud vendors to put their cloud meta solutions out there as starting points for cloud standards discussions. || Making the Rainbows Happy since 2008. || Morbus: Making the Bigfeet Happy - http://www.disobey.com/node/183"
13:46:51 <sbp> ehheh
13:49:13 <sbp> hmm, computer science looks a lot like evolution
13:49:27 <sbp> people produce random articles like this, some of them survive, some of them don't
13:49:29 <nslater> we have a few billion years to go before any real progress? :p
13:49:34 <sbp> yeah, heh
13:50:36 <sbp> you know what I mean though? that night when unix was born, it was all inode this and dirctory system that. it was a few weird concepts cobbled together
13:50:46 <sbp> but somehow it actually kinda worked
13:50:51 <sbp> so that one survived
13:51:01 <sbp> whereas a thousand other such wacky OSes have gone by the wayside
13:51:14 <sbp> consider also web-like systems; WAIS and gopher and whatnot
13:51:59 <sbp> someone comes along and nudges one of these things in the right direction and that's how real progress is made
13:52:15 <sbp> the odd Google Mail here (AJAX IS BORN!), the odd perl there (SCRIPTING LANGUAGES ARE BORN!)
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13:53:14 <bjoern_> AJAX DIES, PLZ.
13:53:45 <sbp> man, I could be the David Hume of IT philosophy
13:53:49 <bjoern_> .gc "whatnot protocol"
13:53:54 <phenny> "whatnot protocol": 5
13:54:21 <sbp> I'll bet it wouldn't be hard to prove that no IT is done
13:54:53 <sbp> it's just a system of people thinking that they're doing IT, and the belief coupled with natural selection generates the results
13:54:57 <bjoern_> .g rfc3986-check
13:55:03 <nslater> heh, i just went for a drink and my mind when on one of those surrealist meanderings where I considered that if all life on earth started as a single, simple chemical reaction somewhere in some bog, then in a way, if you squint a bit, most of everything you see around you is the natural byproduct of that original chemical reaction, which is pretty messed up
13:55:16 <sbp> or a keg of gunpowder
13:55:26 <phenny> bjoern_: http://www.websitedev.de/temp/rfc3986-check.html.gz
13:55:41 <bjoern_> Okay whatnot::/path is valid
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13:56:39 <bjoern_> We call the : a double-point, so, whatnot quadruplepoint slash path
13:58:31 <MacTed> .title http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080702/ap_on_fe_st/odd_australia_funeral_hits
13:58:33 <phenny> MacTed: Australians making odd choices for funeral songs - Yahoo! News
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14:06:33 <sbp> hmm. what happens if you apply the busy beaver function to the tranfinites...
14:06:40 <sbp> s/tran/trans/
14:06:50 <nslater> asploding brainbunnies
14:07:02 <nslater> probably
14:07:18 <bjoern_> You get a funny new integer series
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14:12:14 <sbp> [[[
14:12:15 <sbp> On the other hand, psychologically speaking 0 is often the least even number of all. In reaction time experiments, most subjects are slower to call 0 even than other even numbers. Both students and teachers in primary education are prone to a common misconception that the parity of zero is ambiguous, or simply that zero is odd.
14:12:21 <sbp> ]]] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evenness_of_zero
14:12:46 <bjoern_> most numbers are odd.
14:13:34 <sbp> [[[
14:13:34 <sbp> In interviews, Frobisher elicited some of the students' reasoning. One fifth-year decided that 0 was even because it was found on the 2 times table. A couple fourth-years realized that zero can be split into equal parts: "no one gets owt if it's shared out."
14:13:35 <sbp> ]]]
14:13:57 <tobbez> bjoern_: a property they have in common with most humans
14:14:21 <bjoern_> Most humans are mere numbers.
14:14:32 <sbp> this is a pretty great article
14:15:23 <bjoern_> Like all articles featuring tori
14:16:46 <sbp> there's a practicality section!
14:17:19 <sbp> oh man, this is great
14:17:20 <sbp> [[[
14:17:20 <sbp> The nominal evenness of zero is relevant to odd-even rationing systems. Cars might be allowed to drive or to purchase gasoline on alternate days, according to the parity of the last digit in their license plates. Half of the numbers in a given range end in 0, 2, 4, 6, 8 and the other half in 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, so it makes sense to include 0 with the other even numbers.
14:17:26 <sbp> The relevant legislation sometimes stipulates that zero is even to avoid confusion.[25] In fact, an odd-even restriction on driving in 1977 Paris did lead to confusion when the rules were unclear. On an odd-only day, the police avoided fining drivers whose plates ended in 0, because they did not know whether 0 was even.[26]
14:17:27 <sbp> ]]]
14:18:00 <nslater> hahaha
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14:18:55 <nslater> "It provides material for Internet message boards,[19] ask-the-expert websites,[20][21] and bored linguists at cocktail parties.[22]"
14:19:04 <nslater> # ^ Grimes, Joseph E. (1975). The Thread of Discourse. Walter de Gruyter, 156. ISBN 902793164X. "...one can pose the following questions to married couples of his acquaintance: (1) Is zero an even number? ... Many couples disagree..."
14:19:15 <nslater> and what of the unmarried couple?
14:19:20 <nslater> death, probably
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14:19:40 <sbp> History section is great too
14:20:18 <bjoern_> tori
14:20:25 <nslater> wow, weirdest caption of the day award: "A mirror partitions an empty collection of pencils: half (0) are real and half (0) are reflections."
14:21:16 <bjoern_> "It is clear that 0 is divisible by 2 more times than any other number, but one runs into trouble when trying to quantify exactly how many times that is."
14:21:44 <sbp> the first of the "intuitive reasons" is funny
14:22:09 <nslater> heh
14:23:44 <sbp> bjoern_: given that, doesn't that mean 0 is the most even number?
14:23:54 <sbp> so it's the most even, but psychologically the least...
14:24:06 <Morbus> sbp, linked from paranormal.about.com: http://paranormal.about.com/od/paranormalgeneralinfo/a/news_080701n_2.htm
14:24:10 <Morbus> "Help save the ... "
14:24:13 <nslater> "most even" doesnt make sense to me
14:24:46 <Morbus> when comparing 2 and 1, 2 is the most even of the two.
14:25:02 <nslater> that implies a scale of evenness, a quantity or score you could asign
14:25:18 <nslater> like, a bit even, moderately even or really even
14:27:25 <sbp> nslater: well, did you read the explanation?
14:27:31 <nslater> yes
14:27:33 <sbp> it's how many times a number can be divided by two
14:27:37 <nslater> but being even is a truth value
14:27:42 <nslater> erm
14:27:54 <sbp> or, psychologically, it's measured by reaction times
14:28:00 <sbp> (and gives the opposite result)
14:28:15 <nslater> yes, but mathematically, evenness is a boolean, not a scale
14:28:16 <sbp> Morbus: cool
14:28:25 <nslater> it's only more even psychologically speaking
14:28:39 <sbp> nslater: the point of this is that you can conceive of it as not being boolean
14:28:54 <sbp> think of it as an alternative form of evenness, perhaps?
14:29:03 <sbp> but it'd help if you read Lockhart's Lament even more :-)
14:29:06 <nslater> no, I can't :) I can concieve of a property which is "the amount of times it can be divided by two"
14:29:19 <nslater> but that's distinct from evenness
14:29:29 <nslater> perhaps, metaevenness :p
14:29:33 <sbp> okay, fair enough. I have problems with concepts like p-adic numbers
14:29:42 <sbp> but I don't deny their existence...
14:30:20 <nslater> .gc metaevenness
14:30:20 <phenny> metaevenness: 0
14:30:23 <nslater> .gc metævenness
14:30:25 <phenny> metævenness: 0
14:30:26 <Morbus> since uncharted is getting trophies, i rewatched http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/27-Uncharted-Drakes-Fortune
14:30:27 <Morbus> great.
14:30:35 <bjoern_> "I think using http: is the front runner." - timbl on (does it matter?)
14:30:39 <nslater> uncharted is lame XD
14:31:45 <Morbus> this video is so great. man. heh
14:31:59 <nslater> bah... i will watch it
14:32:00 <sbp> nslater: consider the case of prime numbers, perhaps
14:32:02 <sbp> is 1 a prime?
14:32:06 <spb> no
14:33:26 <nslater> apparently not
14:33:36 <bjoern_> it once was.
14:33:42 <Morbus> nslater: you should definitely get little big planet when it comes out.
14:33:45 <nslater> yeah... then it was changed for convenience
14:33:51 <Morbus> it has the building of second life, only cuter! ;)
14:33:51 <sbp> exactly
14:33:53 <nslater> Morbus: oh, synopsis?
14:33:58 <sbp> so is 1 objectively a prime or not?
14:34:03 <Morbus> nslater: sandbox game and you're an inch high.
14:34:14 <sbp> it depends on the definition of prime
14:34:18 <nslater> coool, i think ive seen trailers for it, looks good
14:34:21 <sbp> and we made prime up
14:34:25 <Morbus> http://www.gametrailers.com/player/17635.html
14:34:26 * nslater watches ZP
14:34:27 <sbp> similarly, we made the concept of evenness up
14:34:38 <Morbus> sbp: you'd probabhly like this too
14:34:51 <sbp> looking
14:34:54 <jsled> Ince high and CUTE.
14:34:57 <jsled> inch. damnit.
14:35:01 <Morbus> yes!
14:35:07 <Morbus> and almost claylike in their composure.
14:35:59 <Morbus> physics is obscnee.
14:36:13 <sbp> that's interesting, but it's not really interactive enough is it?
14:36:26 <sbp> I mean they couldn't knock together a microscope from their materials
14:36:36 <sbp> and study the composition of their materials
14:36:46 <sbp> this is the problem with games. not enough modelling of atoms and stuff
14:37:08 <sbp> can you imagine that? a game so interactive that the characters could be made to work out what the source code of the program is?
14:37:20 <sbp> man that'd be hilarious
14:37:57 <nslater> hahaha
14:38:23 <Morbus> "interactive enough"?
14:38:33 <clsn> Of course zero is even. There's no remainder when divided by two.
14:38:33 <nslater> a very fair review... it did miss out how aweful the graphics are
14:38:43 <nslater> .. and i hadn't considered the racism part, but very true
14:39:29 <nslater> i also hate reflex stuff, spiderman was full of them
14:39:32 <Morbus> sbp: lemme find you a video fo the demo stuff
14:39:33 <sbp> Morbus: in the real world there is open-ended capacity for investigation
14:39:42 <sbp> I wonder if you could build a game in the same way
14:39:57 <Morbus> http://www.gametrailers.com/player/17724.html
14:40:20 <clsn> That starts to feel like World of World of Warcraft, sbp. People start building computers and games within the game at that point...
14:40:39 <nslater> cf. GTA4
14:41:30 <Morbus> nslater: we should totally make levels together, if we can ;)
14:41:41 <nslater> oh, you can do that? sweet! when does it come out?
14:41:46 <Morbus> fall :
14:41:48 <Morbus> :)
14:41:52 <nslater> hmm?
14:42:01 <Morbus> this fall, supposedly.
14:42:13 <nslater> oh, damn americans, I read that as "fail" :p
14:42:24 <nslater> have you played rocoloco yet?
14:42:34 <Morbus> the sticker demo at 3:00 is awesome.
14:42:40 <Morbus> when it applies to the cloth.
14:42:40 <nslater> it's availble in the PS store, I used to have it on the PSP
14:42:41 <Morbus> looks gret.
14:42:46 <nslater> ... fantastic game
14:42:48 <Morbus> yeah, i played it on the psp.
14:43:04 <nslater> i loved the constant singing in french most!
14:43:29 * Morbus has the soundtrack, i think.
14:43:34 <nslater> wow... haha
14:43:59 <Morbus> yeah, apparently we can create levels together online. awesome.
14:44:05 <Morbus> (seems to be implied at 4:30)
14:44:25 <nslater> what was that game where basically all you did is role a ball of stuff around until it got really big...
14:44:29 <Morbus> ahahah.
14:44:31 <Morbus> 5:00 is great.
14:44:37 <Morbus> yeah, katamari darcy
14:44:38 <Morbus> hated that game.
14:44:41 <nslater> haha
14:45:31 <Morbus> created game level at 6:15
14:45:36 <Morbus> all done in the editor. /me swoons.
14:46:08 <sbp> man, the focal depth changes. awesome
14:46:14 <nslater> what are you watching?
14:46:17 <sbp> now if only the camera would be uneven in its movement too...
14:46:34 <Morbus> ah, the first video was the second part of this video.
14:46:37 <nslater> ah, little big plannet
14:46:45 <Morbus> anyways
14:46:58 <Morbus> see 14:05 at http://www.gametrailers.com/player/17724.html
14:46:59 * Morbus giggles.
14:47:15 <nslater> woah, a platform game... it's been yonks
14:47:47 <Morbus> yeah, and you and i can make levels together :D
14:47:58 <nslater> WOOOO
14:48:05 <nslater> reminds me of another game... sec
14:48:26 <Morbus> quickie creation demo starts at 15:36
14:48:29 <Morbus> high speed creation
14:49:02 <Morbus> man, we totally got to get into this.
14:50:01 <nslater> Morbus: link dump
14:50:11 <nslater> .title http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGp2EV10pY4
14:50:12 <phenny> nslater: YouTube - physics drawing game
14:50:15 <jsled> Out in the fall, right?
14:50:16 <nslater> .title http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsTqspnvAaI
14:50:20 <Morbus> jsled: yeah. you too!
14:50:20 <phenny> nslater: YouTube - Crayon Physics Deluxe
14:50:20 <jsled> (lbp)
14:50:21 <nslater> .title http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lX1pQ6QKlNU
14:50:22 <phenny> nslater: YouTube - Crayon Physics
14:50:34 <nslater> not really related, but it reminded me of this on some weird tangent
14:51:07 <Morbus> october 2008, looks like.
14:51:47 <jsled> I couldn't rembmer if that was lbp or home.
14:51:51 <Morbus> "From here, levels can be uploaded onto worldwide servers where other players can download them by browsing world ladders of popular maps. When levels are created they can also have a "prize" added to them that other players will get when they complete the level. Once they get the object they may use it in their own levels but may not set it as a prize for their levels. So when another player plays that player's level they will see thi
14:51:51 <Morbus> s item and ask that player where they got it. That player will then direct them to the original player's level and thus a level gains "popularity" through interesting "prizes" for the completion of the level."
14:51:52 <Morbus> NEAT!
14:51:57 <Morbus> swhack specific objects. OoOh ;)
14:52:31 <Morbus> hah, already a wiki: http://littlebigplanet.wikia.com/wiki/LittleBigPlanet_Wiki
14:53:42 * Morbus wadners back to work.
15:00:40 <sbp> .u overtie
15:00:42 <phenny> sbp: Sorry, no results for 'overtie'.
15:00:45 <sbp> .u over
15:00:46 <phenny> U+33A7 SQUARE M OVER S (㎧)
15:00:47 <sbp> .u over tie
15:00:48 <phenny> sbp: Sorry, no results for 'over tie'.
15:00:53 <sbp> .u undert
15:00:54 <phenny> U+203F UNDERTIE (‿)
15:00:59 <sbp> hmm
15:01:05 <sbp> .u .*tie\b
15:01:09 <jsled> square m over s?
15:01:10 <phenny> U+A11E YI SYLLABLE TIEX (ꄞ)
15:01:11 <phenny> U+A120 YI SYLLABLE TIEP (ꄠ)
15:02:13 <sbp> .u character tie
15:02:14 <phenny> U+2040 CHARACTER TIE (⁀)
15:02:24 <sbp> gotta love unicode's naming policies
15:02:31 <nslater> .u slab
15:02:32 <phenny> nslater: Sorry, no results for 'slab'.
15:02:41 <nslater> .u sla
15:02:42 <phenny> U+2044 FRACTION SLASH (⁄)
15:13:59 <nslater> sbp: what do you think about functions named like "def filename2variant(filename):"
15:14:52 <sbp> what is a variant?
15:15:52 <nslater> well, maybe you can help me on that two, there are three types of things I am dealing with that I am wondering how to name. say you had a document at http://inamidst.com/misc/plankton I need to deal with the following three things that relate to that:
15:16:05 <nslater> * /misc/plankton (it's URI reference as displayed to the world)
15:16:25 <nslater> * /misc/plankton.dbk (it's variant URI reference per HTTP variants)
15:16:44 <nslater> * /home/sbp/www/misc/plankton.dbk (it's filename on the local machine)
15:17:46 <nslater> for now I am using "uri", "variant" and "filename"
15:18:04 <nslater> and I have a set of methods for converting between them all
15:18:10 <nslater> and im wondering about naming those too :p
15:18:11 <sbp> I would use resuri, varuri, fileuri
15:18:39 <nslater> "res" for "resource"?
15:18:44 <sbp> then res2var, res2file, var2res, var2file, file2res, and file2var
15:18:45 <sbp> yeah
15:18:54 <sbp> or possibly resToVar or res_to_var etc.
15:19:07 <sbp> then again
15:19:09 <nslater> ugh, CamelCase, are you trollin' me?
15:19:13 <sbp> you could make them objects
15:19:16 <sbp> ResourceURI
15:19:19 <sbp> VariantURI
15:19:21 <nslater> yep, you are
15:19:22 <sbp> FileURI
15:19:29 <sbp> and then methods
15:19:36 <nslater> sbp, pls be srs
15:19:38 <sbp> r = ResourceURI('blahblah')
15:19:44 <sbp> r.variant()
15:20:23 <sbp> well I don't even know what you mean by convert
15:20:28 <sbp> how on earth do you convert a resURI to a varURI?
15:20:41 <sbp> let's say you have three variants
15:20:48 <sbp> how does the "converter" know which to choose?
15:21:00 <sbp> or will it know based on request context?
15:21:20 <sbp> in that case, res.variant(request) seems sensible
15:21:30 <nslater> no no no
15:21:32 <sbp> res.file() is actually a bad name though
15:21:36 <sbp> res.fileURI()?
15:21:37 <sbp> hmm
15:21:43 <sbp> res.varURI(request)
15:21:58 <nslater> ugh, you're muddying my brainbunnies
15:23:45 <sbp> give me more infoes then
15:23:57 <sbp> that's the best I can do based on the info you fed me so far
15:24:07 <nslater> my only question was do you like the "foo2bar" type nomenclature
15:24:15 <sbp> ah
15:24:15 <jsled> No.
15:24:18 <sbp> no
15:24:22 <nslater> oh, okay
15:24:26 <nslater> well, no matter
15:24:28 <sbp> heh, heh
15:24:32 <nslater> i dont need to use it anyway
15:24:33 <jsled> Unless there's a character tax where you are.
15:24:40 <sbp> chox'
15:24:41 <nslater> and for the record, im going to call the methods:
15:24:45 *** jeffarch has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:24:49 <nslater> variant(filename)
15:24:53 <nslater> filename(variant)
15:24:54 *** ejot has quit ()
15:24:59 <nslater> resource(variant)
15:25:03 <nslater> variants(resource)
15:25:18 <sbp> presumably these are functions, not methods?
15:25:19 <nslater> and this isnt done at request time fwiw
15:25:24 <nslater> yes yes, blah blah
15:25:47 <sbp> if I ask for double gloucester, don't give me red leicester
15:25:59 <nslater> ill give you a thump, if you're not carefull
15:26:06 <sbp> hehe
15:26:28 <nslater> also, just clocked "chox'" likin' ur style, yo
15:26:37 <sbp> sorted
15:26:43 <nslater> an' ting
15:27:02 <sbp> functions are funny
15:27:08 <nslater> coding is funny]
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15:28:13 <sbp> hmm, their composability is what gives them their power
15:28:30 <nslater> also, thanks for your note about the multiple variants, i havnt got round to doing the variant testing stuff yet so I had just hacked up some real simple function jobby, have replaced the top line with:
15:28:34 <nslater> def variants(uri): print "bork bork bork, i am returning a single variant from a resource because im too lazy to check"
15:28:39 <sbp> heh
15:28:42 <nslater> i dont even know which bit of the code uses this :p
15:28:54 <sbp> sounds like phenny
15:28:58 <nslater> heh
15:29:46 <sbp> if I ever make another large piece of useful code, I'm going to try to understand it all the way through... :-)
15:33:31 <sbp> hmm. the only useful thing I can think of is a calculator
15:33:37 <sbp> I'd like to write a nice command line calculator
15:33:46 <sbp> but I can't be arsed to learn perl6 really
15:34:02 <xover> .g, for bash?
15:34:02 <phenny> xover: 29 Jun 23:43Z <_bjoern> tell xover http://cpants.perl.org/author/LINK you should totally copy the pod tests over from spo
15:34:04 <phenny> xover: 30 Jun 08:19Z <bjoern_> tell xover so SGML-Parser-OpenSP now has a top Kwalitee, except for not being a prereq of a module not by me.
15:35:55 <sbp> I wrote a .g for bash ages ago
15:35:57 <sbp> but never used it
15:36:13 <sbp> easier doing it on IRC, where you don't have to worry about quote conventions
15:36:44 <nslater> bc?
15:36:58 <sbp> bc sucks
15:37:03 <nslater> perl6 sucks
15:37:15 <sbp> yes, but it's better than any other programming language that I know of
15:37:22 <nslater> are you for realz?
15:37:26 <sbp> yeah
15:37:30 <nslater> why?
15:37:35 <nslater> are you REALLY for realz?
15:37:47 <sbp> why am I for realz? because I couldn't be arsed to lie?
15:37:53 <sbp> and yes, I'm REALLY for realz
15:38:08 <nslater> I thought you were a pythonista
15:38:21 <sbp> python used to be the least crap language
15:38:23 <sbp> now it's perl6
15:38:28 <sbp> moreover, perl6 is the reason I stopped working on pluvo, not python
15:38:32 <nslater> odd, very very odd
15:38:39 <sbp> I kinda felt like I could beat python
15:38:45 <sbp> but no way can one person beat perl6
15:38:47 <nslater> what about py2k?
15:38:54 <sbp> minor improvements
15:39:08 <chandler> right, it would take more than one person's capacity for bs to beat perl6
15:39:19 <sbp> bs?
15:39:47 <sbp> if you mean bullshit, that would be a strange characterisation
15:39:47 <chandler> well, one ordinary person that is. I'm not sure what exactly larry wall is
15:39:53 <sbp> the stuff in perl6 which is bizarre is beyond the shit
15:40:07 <sbp> and into realms of dimly imaginable craziness
15:40:34 <sbp> as LWall said, perl6 is the community rewrite of perl
15:40:45 <sbp> perl5 was his rewrite. perl5 isn't as good as python
15:41:13 <chandler> it all feels like an attempt to sound really smart and intellectual without actually taking the effort to learn how to use Lisp or Scheme or Forth, all of which have off the hook craziness potential surpassing Perl 6
15:41:41 <sbp> pluvo was heavily based on lisp
15:41:50 <sbp> I think lisp is an evolutionary dead end in general though
15:42:10 <sbp> like java, only not quite that bad
15:42:14 <nslater> wtf
15:42:40 <chandler> if you want to see something really interesting, try Factor
15:43:38 <sbp> dynamic typing, stack based, postfix operators...
15:43:42 <sbp> truly revolutionary! :-)
15:44:58 <sbp> perl6's type system is like if Balzac wrote it or something
15:45:17 <sbp> what is this typing? what shall we involve in it? how may we surpass it? is surpassing it good?
15:46:00 <sbp> traits are one of the things that really made me think of it as the best language available
15:46:11 <sbp> traits were a surprise to me
15:47:18 <chandler> aren't traits just a form of mixin?
15:47:44 <sbp> not exactly, I think
15:48:12 <sbp> oh, well I guess "form of" might be close enough
15:48:28 <sbp> everything about perl6 is like that really
15:48:39 <chandler> yeah, it's hard to speak with any certainty about CLOS typing concepts given that virtually anything is just a MOP hack away
15:48:41 <sbp> what we know, but a little bit more cutting edge
15:48:51 <sbp> I don't know those acronyms
15:49:01 <chandler> CLOS = Common Lisp Object System; MOP = Meta-Object Protocol
15:49:12 <sbp> I still don't know those acronyms
15:49:34 <chandler> and therein lies my problem with much of the "progress" in programming languages :-)
15:49:42 <sbp> .wik Common Lisp Object System
15:49:42 <phenny> "The Common Lisp Object System (CLOS) is the facility for object-oriented programming which is part of ANSI Common Lisp." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Lisp_Object_System
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15:51:11 * sbp reads http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspect-oriented_programming
15:51:21 <nslater> i still dont get aspect
15:51:28 <nslater> ... not that ive dedicated too much time to learning it
15:52:40 <jsled> aspect-oriented is mostly about runtime interception of various cutpoints in the code, like method invocation or return.
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15:56:19 <sbp> hmm
15:56:20 <sbp> [[[
15:56:21 <sbp> The method dispatcher will ask all the classes involved (in some order you the programmer get to specify) who wants to handle it. Each class can be written with that in mind or they can just handle it and be selfish. But, the mechanism will exist.
15:56:21 <sbp> ]]]
15:56:34 <sbp> which seems to cover the only MOP usage example that Wikipedia gives
15:57:09 <sbp> "virtually anything is an X hack away" could be said about any sufficiently self-modifyable and introspectable language
15:57:26 <sbp> the point is how concepts and syntax are arranged to facilitate real world usage
15:57:41 <chandler> sorry, got distracted by the phone
15:57:44 <sbp> and as far as I know (which isn't very much), perl6 is scads ahead of lisp in that dept.
15:57:52 <chandler> AOP is mostly Java/C++ static mumbo-jumbo
15:58:29 <chandler> MOP is a vehicle for defining the object system which is best suited to your problem. You don't express the solution to the problem in MOP itself.
15:59:03 <sbp> sure. and it sounds like you'll be able to tinker with the object system at a similar level in perl6
15:59:22 <chandler> so, progress?
15:59:35 <nslater> but is it an ugly bolt on or core to the language, such as with lisp?
16:00:42 <nslater> perl's entire object model is an ugly bolt on, if my sources are to be trusted :p
16:00:49 <sbp> I don't know enough about perl6's object system to tell you, but it was designed in this decade from the ground up, so one would bleedin' well hope that it's core to the language and nicely designed
16:01:02 <sbp> in perl5, certainly. it's terrible
16:01:18 * nslater smiles
16:01:34 <sbp> perl5 is awful in so many ways. it's a horrid pile of rubbish
16:02:10 <chandler> yeah mang, at least guido had the sense to bolt on a mark & sweep collector to his reference counting system
16:02:20 <chandler> amazing technology we have these days
16:02:24 <sbp> one of the biggest disappointments from my point of view is that perl6 retains as much perl5 idiomata as it does
16:02:54 <nslater> has the syntax changes or does it still make your eyes bleed?
16:02:57 * nslater ducks
16:03:06 <bjoern_> That is a feature.
16:03:10 <sbp> heh, heh
16:03:12 <nslater> heh
16:03:17 <sbp> some things are bad, some are good
16:03:32 * Morbus is amazed he's remained so quiet during this discussion.
16:03:55 <sbp> Morbus: I'm glad that nowadays I don't actually have to care about any of this
16:04:02 <nslater> h8r
16:04:02 * bjoern_ skimmed all of it after the fact in one go
16:04:05 <Morbus> heh, yeah. pretty much :D
16:04:26 <sbp> I can say what I like and it has no repurcussions, from my perspective
16:04:41 <sbp> I can be wrong, I can be a downright idiot, and it does not matter <3
16:04:56 <nslater> heh, and for whys did it matter before?
16:05:07 *** sbenthall has quit ("Ex-Chat")
16:05:37 <bjoern_> We were young and hadn't abandoned all hope of succeeding in life.
16:05:37 <sbp> nslater: well now it's like me spouting opinions on knitting patterns, for example. if I were a knitter, then it would be important because I'd care about understanding it; I'd care about the community; I'd care about the opportunity for writing on the subject, displaying my work, all that sort of thing
16:05:57 <Morbus> bjoern_: ahahah.
16:06:05 <Morbus> for me, a little, it's like that.
16:06:21 <Morbus> arguing about languages seems... petty nowadays. it's like saying i like 0.2 pencils over 0.4mm.
16:06:26 <Morbus> you both write the same story.
16:06:27 <sbp> yeah!
16:06:40 <sbp> it's the age old conversation about craft
16:06:44 <chandler> I find it a decent vehicle for some "you kids get off my lawn" curmudgeonry
16:06:52 <sbp> craftsmen have craftsmen's arguments
16:07:05 <Morbus> you never, ever since i started eating healthy, my farts smell so horrible.
16:07:08 <nslater> i have recently come to similar conclusions about the free software community :(
16:07:16 <Morbus> it's kinda hilarious. like gradeschool groan horirble.
16:07:26 <Morbus> *you know, rather.
16:07:29 <Morbus> not you never. crazy fuck.
16:07:29 <sbp> Morbus: hehe, what? where'd this come in? :-)
16:07:34 <nslater> lol
16:07:35 <Morbus> i just farted.
16:07:37 <sbp> aha
16:07:37 <Morbus> and it reeks so bad
16:07:38 <Morbus> lol
16:07:49 <sbp> all a part of nature's goodness!
16:07:52 <Morbus> and this is the first time i've literally lol'd when i typed lol. in like years.
16:08:12 <Morbus> though, it was more a subdued giggle.
16:08:15 <sbp> hehe
16:08:28 * Morbus has been eating healthy lately, as he wants to live forever.
16:08:35 <jsled> good luck with htat.
16:08:41 <nslater> .wik htat
16:08:43 <phenny> "I want to attend US College with schalorship.So,guide me and help me." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Soe_htat_aung
16:08:44 <sbp> try to think faster too
16:08:48 <nslater> lol
16:08:49 <Morbus> well, i support the "live long enough to live forever" mentality.
16:08:50 <sbp> ahaha
16:08:57 <Morbus> if i can live long enough for technology to do the rest, i'm fine.
16:09:06 <jsled> what's healthy eating, then?
16:09:12 <Morbus> cf. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1579549543/disobeycom
16:09:12 <nslater> fruit and veg!
16:09:18 <Morbus> actually, mostly veg.
16:09:18 <chandler> sorry, only unhealthy eaters allowed in the singularity
16:09:20 <sbp> and horse dung
16:09:22 <Morbus> fruit has too much fructose in it.
16:09:32 <jsled> brown rice over white?
16:09:32 <nslater> whats wrong with fructose?
16:09:42 <jsled> Quinoa? Kale? Broccoli?
16:09:45 <sbp> fructose makes you fat, like carbs
16:09:45 <Morbus> it's nature sugar and, sugar, in general, is bad
16:09:51 <chandler> In singularity, software maintains you!
16:09:53 <Morbus> jsled: yep. and bok choy.
16:09:57 <sbp> a low-carbs, low-protein, low-fat diet is what you need
16:09:58 <Morbus> chandler++
16:10:01 <nslater> hmm... im not sure it's as clear cut as that
16:10:05 <Morbus> nslater: it's not.
16:10:09 <jsled> hmm. haven't done the bok choy thing.
16:10:15 <Morbus> but it's a bit difficult to summarize a 400 page book ;
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16:10:16 <nslater> fruit is generally very healthy, in moderation
16:10:17 <Morbus> ;)
16:10:25 <sbp> pfft, tell me about it
16:10:25 <nslater> im not suggesting you eat watermellons for dinner for the rest of your life :p
16:10:33 <nslater> man, that would be sweet
16:10:35 <jsled> Did find a hot-and-sour cabbage soup with savoy cabbage is actually not as bad as I'd thought it'd be.
16:10:37 <Morbus> especially one that's 6 years old and is outta date ;)
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16:10:43 <sbp> hmm. what did Peyps say about the watermelon...
16:10:47 <chandler> I think I'm the only person in the universe who hates watermelons
16:10:54 <nslater> "AWESOME" probably
16:10:58 <chris2> i just hate the seeds
16:11:04 <Morbus> i used to eat the seeds.
16:11:05 <chandler> totally nasty taste
16:11:13 <Morbus> i thought it would be so cool to have a watermelon patch in my stomahc.
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16:11:16 <nslater> I find it funny how precious they are in Japan
16:11:18 <sbp> .title http://www.pepysdiary.com/p/1227.php
16:11:19 <phenny> sbp: Melons (Pepys' Diary)
16:11:20 <Morbus> figured i'd become self-sustaining.
16:11:25 <Morbus> never happened.
16:11:25 <nslater> ... when you buy them they come in boxes and little ribbons and bows
16:11:26 <Morbus> fucking liars.
16:11:43 <chris2> Morbus: try tomatoes between the teeth. works better
16:11:47 <nslater> and in some cases the entire shop will clap you and sing a song when you buy one
16:11:52 <nslater> you couldnt make this stuff up
16:11:55 <chris2> oO
16:11:58 <chris2> have a source?
16:11:59 <chandler> you couldn't make Japan up if you tried
16:12:20 <Morbus> dude, you can buy used panties from vending machines.
16:12:20 <nslater> chandler: yes, a friend who lives in Shibuya
16:12:25 <sbp> I thought I heard something like Peyps only saved one thing in his house when the Great Fire of London started up, and it wasn't his wife; it was his watermelon
16:12:29 <Morbus> a singing party when you buy a watermelon is entirely believable.
16:12:31 <sbp> but I'm probably misremembering
16:12:38 <nslater> hahaha
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16:12:53 <sbp> because watermelons were so insanely rare &c.
16:12:58 <nslater> let me see if i can get a pic of one of the ribboned watermelons
16:13:01 <sbp> wifes you could get from any old street corner
16:13:13 <sbp> or wives as some radicals prefer to call them
16:13:15 * Morbus wonders if he should become a watermelon trafficker in his old age
16:13:19 <sbp> hehe
16:13:26 <chris2> http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/762049.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF193875DCB1DD8387ABB76B777EE61798985284831B75F48EF45
16:13:32 <nslater> http://www.flickr.com/photos/shaomai/764554915/
16:13:35 <Morbus> ooh, square
16:13:38 <nslater> ^^ haha, in glass cabinates
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16:13:59 <sbp> ah! it wasn't a watermelon
16:14:05 <sbp> it was wine and parmesan cheese
16:14:07 <Morbus> they should make watermelons shaped like vaginas
16:14:10 <Morbus> .<pregnant pause>.
16:14:11 <Morbus> WHAT?!
16:14:13 <nslater> ....
16:14:25 <sbp> may I just interject a <G> here?
16:14:27 <sbp> <G>
16:14:33 <chris2> is that the g-spot?
16:14:39 <sbp> it has never been explained
16:14:44 <sbp> I read somewhere that it's a giggle or a grin
16:14:53 <chris2> {G} looks more like it :-P
16:14:53 <Morbus> it's a grin. inherited from the BBS days.
16:14:58 <sbp> I always pictured Morbus' face making a big G shape though
16:15:04 <Morbus> way back when smilies started just becoming popular.
16:15:09 <Morbus> primarily due to aol users.
16:15:13 <sbp> lol :-)
16:15:13 <Morbus> there was a vogue to never use them.
16:15:21 <Morbus> so <eg> evil grin, <g> grin, etc.
16:15:22 * chris2 uses *g* usually
16:15:28 <Morbus> i just never grew outta <g>.
16:15:31 <Morbus> my fingers type it without thinking.
16:15:39 <sbp> BAD FINGERS
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16:15:56 <Morbus> it's impossible for me to find historical references to this too.
16:16:27 <Morbus> though, EG shows up at http://www.mandatorycurfew.com/SearchedFor/IMAcronyms.htm
16:17:13 <bjoern_> .ety e.g.
16:17:15 <phenny> Can't find the etymology for "e". Try http://etymonline.com/?search=e
16:17:23 <bjoern_> lolbux
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16:21:51 <bjoern_> http://www.titanic-magazin.de/typo3temp/pics/484888dc13.jpg
16:22:03 <bjoern_> (don't go to http://www.titanic-magazin.de/)
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16:23:20 <Morbus> woohoo, i farted again!
16:23:25 *** KiYanWang has quit ()
16:23:29 * Morbus wonders why he ever grew outta this.
16:23:31 <Morbus> it's fun!
16:26:44 <bjoern_> .c 1 per 100 nanoseconds in GHz
16:26:45 <phenny> 1 per (100 nanoseconds) = 0.01 gigahertz
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16:49:33 <nslater> curse you sbp, i find my self reading articles on perl6 out of interest
16:50:43 <nslater> http://bp1.blogger.com/_SDqU7KTqq1M/R2n2xTnhXKI/AAAAAAAAAHc/P-Ry9yr_QF8/s1600-h/cnn-britney.jpg
16:51:04 <nslater> haha... reminds me though, does anyone know much about all the recent talk of the US going to war?
16:51:57 <thelsdj> zero punctuation reviews... web comics?!!?!
16:51:57 <phenny> thelsdj: 01 Jul 18:01Z <_bjoern> tell thelsdj http://search.cpan.org/search?query=Devel::CheckLib&mode=all might help if you aren't using c++ like I am...
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17:00:28 <sbp> thelsdj: damn that was some good shit
17:00:50 <sbp> nslater: damn don't get sucked into perl6 unless you would otherwise have spent the time getting suck into some other language
17:00:51 *** Talliesin has quit ("Leaving.")
17:01:19 <nslater> oooh, dont worry, just reading from an outsiders perspective, you wont catch me picking it up anytime soon
17:01:40 <sbp> .gc hypno-boobs
17:01:41 <phenny> hypno-boobs: 954
17:01:52 <nslater> argh, i unsub'd from codinghorror and now ppl are sending me links to him
17:01:58 <nslater> when will this punishment ever stop
17:02:06 <nslater> http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/001143.html
17:02:19 <nslater> i am convinced that if you removed the images and citations each entry is like two sentences
17:02:22 <sbp> just send the following email to anyone who gives you codinghorror links:
17:02:26 <sbp> "
17:02:29 <bjoern_> phenny, "Τὸ δὶς ἐξαμαρτεῖν οὐκ ἀνδρὸς σοφοῦ"?
17:02:31 <phenny> bjoern_: The und to en translation failed, sorry!
17:02:35 <sbp> Dear FUCKWIT,
17:02:36 <nslater> VILOENCE
17:02:38 <bjoern_> undefined to english?
17:02:43 <sbp> You know what I'm saying. You know.
17:02:48 <sbp> Yuours,
17:02:54 <sbp> Me,
17:02:54 <sbp> Etc.
17:02:54 <sbp> "
17:02:56 <nslater> lolwut
17:02:59 <xover> sbp: Learn how to use the quote dealy, fuckwit.
17:03:11 <nslater> .ety dealy
17:03:11 <phenny> Can't find the etymology for "dealy". Try http://etymonline.com/?search=dealy
17:03:15 <nslater> wtf is a dealy
17:03:28 <bjoern_> phenny, de "Wut"?
17:03:29 <phenny> bjoern_: "Anger" (de to en, translate.google.com)
17:03:45 <sbp> if it hasn't got pictures of deformities, why should I use it?
17:05:20 <nslater> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH
17:06:05 <sbp> uncle Ann?
17:06:10 <nslater> I might would like a Law similar to Ginsparg's which goes something like "People being lame is hardly a revelation."
17:06:25 <nslater> thought im not happy with "lame"
17:07:01 <nslater> hmmz, thats quite an ablist word come to think of it :/
17:07:17 <bjoern_> phenny, "Speude bradeōs"?
17:07:18 <phenny> bjoern_: Language guessing failed, so try suggesting one!
17:07:41 <xover> @ZP++
17:07:50 <bjoern_> .gc "Romanized Greek"
17:07:51 <phenny> "Romanized Greek": 2,970
17:08:37 <bjoern_> hehe πύξ, λάξ, δάξ
17:08:51 <thelsdj> bjoern_: trying out that Devel::CheckLib, though i also have a dependency in my Makefile.PL which is another sort of chicken-egg situation
17:09:14 <bjoern_> dependency on what?
17:09:22 <thelsdj> Inline::MakeMaker
17:09:32 <nslater> oh man, i will share some more fail... hope you dont mind kthx
17:09:36 <bjoern_> isn't that a prereq then?
17:09:37 <nslater> .title http://www.37signals.com/svn/posts/1118-features-are-a-one-way-street
17:09:37 <phenny> nslater: Features are a one-way street - (37signals)
17:09:54 <nslater> sumary: "netflix roled a minor feature then pulled it, boo hoo"
17:09:58 <nslater> first comment:
17:09:58 <nslater> [[[
17:10:04 <nslater> I was so pissed about this I immediately called my wife and we agreed to cancel. They sent me a generic BS email a couple of days later saying “You spoke, we listened…”. But they didn’t think far enough ahead to make an offer to people like me to actually re-sign up. I sure ain’t gonna go out of my way to sign up again so they messed up twice.
17:10:09 <nslater> ]]]
17:10:12 <nslater> lolwut
17:11:03 <thelsdj> bjoern_: yea but how would it check it as a prereq if it might fail to load it BEFORE it gets to look at the prereqs?
17:12:11 <nslater> haha, mattl even commented on that post
17:12:23 <sbp> Tested against male aerosols.
17:12:28 <thelsdj> guess i should setup a META.yml
17:12:35 <nslater> you sound like Monteh
17:12:58 <nslater> funny that I have Monty in a few of my channels but he's missing from Swhack
17:13:06 <nslater> ... perhaps he emoquit for good
17:14:17 <nslater> bwahahaha
17:14:31 <nslater> oh my, the last comment on that article makes me glad I bothered to read the comments
17:14:35 <xover> .title http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/1/17/
17:14:35 <phenny> xover: Penny Arcade! - The Pilgrimage, Part Two
17:14:35 <nslater> "Whoever wrote this tardicle is a self-serving douche."
17:14:48 <nslater> .gc tardicle
17:14:48 <phenny> tardicle: 17
17:14:59 <nslater> oh man, ppl should really start using that word more often
17:15:44 <procto> 37signals: if cory doctorow was a ruby on rails guy
17:16:20 <procto> nslater: it's almost as good as darwin's "gemules"
17:16:31 <nslater> i find 37signals to be smug and self righteous
17:16:35 <nslater> gemules?
17:17:14 <procto> darwin postulated that inhertience information was produced by cells throughout the body, and outputted as gemules which would migrate down to the genitals
17:19:57 <bjoern_> .gc "nemo saltat sobrius"
17:19:59 <phenny> "nemo saltat sobrius": 13,700
17:23:08 <thelsdj> ok, made a new release of my module, hopefully this will improve the test failure false positives
17:23:25 <thelsdj> also should improve my cpants
17:23:32 <bjoern_> :)
17:24:18 <MacTed> .gcs they should make watermelons shaped like *
17:24:19 <phenny> MacTed: Sorry, can only compare up to six things.
17:24:23 <thelsdj> my module has not had a 'feature' improvement since originally released in like 2003, all bug fixes and packaging fixes
17:24:27 <bjoern_> .gs hast du bock auf *
17:24:29 <phenny> hast du bock auf *: party (5), gangbang (4), bogg (3), schweinereien (2), schweinerei (2), ne (2), kino (2), etwas ballerei (2), band (2)
17:24:37 <MacTed> .gs they should make watermelons shaped like *
17:24:38 <phenny> they should make watermelons shaped like *: No results!
17:24:51 <MacTed> what?!
17:24:58 <MacTed> .gs watermelons shaped like *
17:24:59 <phenny> watermelons shaped like *: cubes (2)
17:25:13 <MacTed> shocking!
17:27:41 <MacTed> .gcs * shaped like vaginas
17:27:44 <phenny> like (3,490,000,000), shaped (113,000,000), vaginas (479,000), * (0)
17:27:57 <xover> .title http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/3/12/
17:27:58 <phenny> xover: Penny Arcade! - Dark Lessons From The Devil Machine
17:28:00 <MacTed> hrm. not that, then.
17:28:07 <MacTed> .gs * shaped like vaginas
17:28:09 <phenny> * shaped like vaginas: were, usb ports, t, purses, guns)
17:28:26 <MacTed> .gsc * shaped like vaginas
17:29:06 <MacTed> ohwait. I see. any lacking number are (1) ...
17:29:08 <bjoern_> .wik per os
17:29:09 <phenny> "Per os (P.O.) is an adverbial phrase meaning literally from Latin 'by mouth' or 'by way of mouth.' The expression is used in medicine to describe a treatment that is taken orally." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Per_os
17:30:49 <xover> .title http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/3/26/
17:30:49 <phenny> xover: Penny Arcade! - First Impressions
17:46:23 * procto is now subscribed to Intelligent Life
17:46:29 <procto> I'm glad they finally ship to the US
17:46:41 <procto> I was pleasantly surprised with the quality of the magazine when I was in england this winter
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17:47:18 <sbp> .wik Intelligent Life
17:47:19 <phenny> "Extraterrestrial life is life originating outside of the Earth." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_Life
17:47:24 <sbp> .g intelligent life magazine
17:47:25 <phenny> sbp: http://www.moreintelligentlife.com/
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18:09:03 <procto> sbp: yes, that's the site
18:09:11 <procto> sbp: it's The Economist's "lifestyle" magazine
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18:28:20 <xover> .title http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/02/humanrights.usa
18:28:22 <phenny> xover: Want to know if waterboarding is torture? Ask Christopher Hitchens | World news | The Guardian
18:28:35 <xover> .title http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/video/2008/hitchens_video200808
18:28:36 <phenny> xover: Video: On the Waterboard: Politics & Power: vanityfair.com
18:28:45 <xover> .title http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/08/hitchens200808
18:28:45 <phenny> xover: Believe Me, It's Torture: Politics & Power: vanityfair.com
18:29:04 <xover> Anyone want to place bets on how long he lasts?
18:30:09 <jsled> what, like lives?
18:31:40 <xover> How long he can take waterboarding before he releases the dead-man's switch which ends the experiment.
18:32:57 <jsled> Oh, I'd say 5 seconds.
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18:33:18 <xover> He's a though one. He goes for 10 seconds.
18:34:03 <bjoern_> My money is on ∞ .
18:36:08 <procto> http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/3808/4891329489631a07ebd1qb5.jpg
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18:58:43 <xover> .title http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/7/20/
18:59:22 <phenny> xover: Penny Arcade! - A Fabulous Invention
18:59:32 <xover> I *sooo* need to get the SO a WoW account.
19:02:13 <bjoern_> .gc "WoW intercourse"
19:02:29 <bjoern_> .gc intercurse
19:02:33 <phenny> "WoW intercourse": 63
19:02:34 <phenny> intercurse: 3,760
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19:12:48 * nslater is loving that he has a function called "callback_up()" in his code
19:16:37 <bjoern_> Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes.
19:19:49 <bjoern_> .w busybody
19:19:50 <phenny> busybody n. 1: A person who meddles in the affairs of others.
19:20:21 <bjoern_> phenny, en de "busybody"?
19:20:22 <phenny> bjoern_: "busybody" (en to de, translate.google.com)
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19:30:58 <clsn> bjoern_: somewhere I have the book "Latin for all occasions" which includes such gems as that.
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19:31:46 <bjoern_> Wikipedia has List_of_Latin_phrases_(full)
19:33:36 <clsn> Yay for the global repository of information.
19:34:00 <clsn> I was musing about that, in the days when everyone has cybernetic implants and all, and basically everyone has all of wikipedia in their brains...
19:34:16 <clsn> Will there really be any meaning to knowing something obscure anymore?
19:34:28 <clsn> Unless it's so obscure it isn't in the commonality...
19:34:35 <bjoern_> I CAN EDIT YOUR THOUGHTS
19:34:38 <bjoern_> I HEARD THAT
19:34:53 <clsn> One shudders at the thought of the Talk: pages...
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20:07:22 <Arnia> nslater: http://bryceharrington.org/drupal/docs_vs_streams
20:07:25 <Arnia> .title
20:07:27 <phenny> Arnia: On Documents vs. Streams | infinite knots
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20:10:19 <nslater> [[[
20:10:20 <nslater> Occasionally, some of that is actually useful to me. But most of the time, for most of the work I do, it's all irrelevant. To pick one example, I used absolutely none of that in order to write this blog post.
20:10:24 <nslater> ]]]
20:10:27 <nslater> I call BS
20:10:46 <nslater> "I don't deal with writing documents, but with changes to documents." - also, wtf
20:10:56 <Arnia> It makes sense to me
20:11:21 <nslater> well, he's wrong in the first instance. I can almost garantee he DID deal with a number of documents when updating his blog.
20:11:37 <nslater> Also, I don't see the huge semantic difference between editing a document and starting to edit a new document.
20:11:39 <Arnia> There is a difference between treating a document as a single block, and instead dealing with it as streams of information which are woven together
20:12:02 <Arnia> Writing papers is very similar... you rarely start off with a totally blank canvas
20:12:10 <Arnia> Most of what you do is weave together streams of arguments
20:12:17 <Arnia> And the document metaphor gets in the way
20:12:31 <nslater> but what is it a stream of? documents, right
20:12:42 <nslater> so he's just pointing out that we deal with LOTS MORE documents than we used to