2008-07-21 Swhack IRC Log

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00:20:33 <jessica> ... this is beyond awesome.
00:20:42 <jessica> http://english.pravda.ru/world/americas/18-07-2008/105821-george_laura_bush_divorce-0
00:20:45 <jessica> .title
00:20:46 <phenny> jessica: George and Laura Bush to divorce after election because of Condi Rice? - Pravda.Ru
00:21:02 <jessica> There is no News in the Truth and there is no Truth in the News.
00:22:00 <ja> eh
00:22:28 <ja> theres no Arnia in my birthday cake, but it still tastes good
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00:23:21 <jessica> Happy birthday!
00:23:21 <ja> your browser must have replaced http://mparent7777-1.livejournal.com/ bookmark w/ foxnews or smth..
00:23:27 <ja> my birthday is in january
00:23:32 <ja> i was trying to deconstruct your weird analogy
00:23:37 * ja failed, miserably :P
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00:24:09 <jessica> oh! Pravda means "Truth" as well as being the official organ of the Communist Party in Russia.
00:24:13 <jessica> That was a Cold War joke.
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00:36:59 <chrom> Picasa doesnt understand webarch :/
00:37:10 <chrom> no hrefs at all on the images. middle click just pastes. ugh
00:37:22 <chrom> anything that _only_ works with JS and onclick needs to be destroyed
00:37:44 <chrom> hah with JS disabled the photos dont even load
00:37:48 <chrom> Loading..
00:37:50 <chrom> stupid
00:39:04 <zachb> Hah
00:40:53 * jessica is busy reading about Bill O'Reilly saying that contraceptives shouldn't be covered for women under health insurance, but Viagra should be as it treats a medical condition.
00:41:13 <jessica> Fark's take on it: "Specifically, the medical condition that leads to you needing to rub Middle Eastern food on your employees while they shower."
00:41:28 <zachb> Haha!
00:42:38 <zachb> jessica: like my emotion?
00:43:04 <jessica> No habla inglés.
00:43:15 <zachb> }:3-<
00:43:49 <chrom> habla spanglish
00:43:58 <zachb> habla anglais
00:44:15 <chrom> je parle seulement iroquois
00:45:02 <zachb> phenny: en fr "I speak just a bit of french"
00:45:05 <chrom> there is no "L" in the Algonquian languages of the Gulf of Saint Lawrence region, the name became "Hirokoa"
00:45:11 <chrom> heh, more no L languages?
00:45:14 <chrom> how many are there
00:45:18 <zachb> phenny: en fr "I speak just a bit of french"?
00:45:19 <phenny> zachb: "Je parle un peu de français" (en to fr, translate.google.com)
00:45:26 <zachb> Aww, I was gonna say that too
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01:26:35 <zachb> no
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01:28:52 <ja> nein?
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01:38:38 <ja> wb
01:39:28 <ja> zachb are you south of foxboro somewhere or is comcast's routing just tweaked out
01:39:36 <ja> maybe some kind of fiber loop..
01:39:49 <zachb> Why?
01:40:11 <zachb> Any specific reasons or just ran an IP check? :P
01:40:17 <ja> traceroutes
01:40:49 <ja> i know ppl in CA who have MN as the 'state' in their comcast IP tho
01:40:51 <ja> so whatever
01:41:10 <zachb> Hah
01:41:37 <zachb> Mine was once in TN
01:41:48 <ja> ok
01:41:56 <zachb> ...
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01:47:59 <ja> so the fox is a decoy. sly..
01:48:04 <ja> i never saw foxes down there anwyays
01:48:05 <ja> coyotes tho
01:48:14 <ja> and more turkeys than thanksgiving
01:48:20 <zachb> ...wha?
01:48:35 <ja> the coyotes sound like babies screaming
01:48:39 <ja> its freaky
01:48:44 <ja> like a toddler getting violently raped
01:48:46 <ja> pretty much
01:48:51 <ja> usually you hear like 3 or 4 too
01:48:52 <ja> or it sounds like that
01:49:03 <ja> i just chil until they move on. im not down with facing off against those fuckers
02:02:24 <zachb> what are we talking about?
02:07:30 <ja> the inefficiencies of 'local echo' in VT100 apps from a stream-synchronization perspective
02:08:05 <ja> ddoo yyoouu ggiivvee aa sshhiitt??
02:08:58 <ja> http://www.google.com/search?q=%22ddoo+yyoouu%22
02:10:43 <zachb> .gc ddoo yyoouu
02:10:44 <phenny> ddoo yyoouu: 599
02:11:13 <zachb> > doubleUp [] = []
02:11:25 <zachb> > doubleUp (x:xs) = x : x : doubleUp xs
02:11:33 <zachb> > doubleUp "do you"
02:11:58 <zachb> ...damn, swhask isn't in here...
02:13:46 <ja> its ok, ive got GHC on my writwatch
02:14:01 <ja> ghci rather
02:14:38 <ja> armel/eabi stuff i dont realyl want to think about right now
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02:40:43 <zachb> I wish I had a writwatch
02:42:56 <deltab> do you receive many writs?
02:43:12 <ja> on 14.275 mhz yes
02:45:23 <Arnia> zachb: h>
02:45:23 <Monty> there was once in their stories | Life and got kicked out there". It takes you south of Condi Rice? - Pravda.Ru
02:45:34 <Arnia> h> map toUpper "hello"
02:45:59 <Arnia> (not that swhask is here, as you said, but kpreid has altered the prefix)
02:46:27 <zachb> Oh
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02:46:43 <zachb> Heh
02:46:45 <zachb> There he is!
02:46:50 <zachb> h> import Zachb
02:46:51 <swhask> Parse error
02:46:56 <zachb> ...it hates me
02:47:35 <ja> phenny: fr en "ile aux loups"
02:48:45 <ja> wolf island..
02:48:51 <ja> sounds kinda..scary
02:49:03 <kpreid> zachb: expressions, not declarations
02:51:43 <zachb> Right
02:51:43 <Arnia> h> map toUpper "hello"
02:51:44 <swhask> ghc: failed with error code 127
02:52:02 <Arnia> h> map reverse $ inits "hello"
02:52:03 <swhask> ghc: failed with error code 127
02:52:14 <Arnia> h> :info inits
02:52:14 <swhask> Parse error
02:52:17 <zachb> h> Parse error
02:52:18 <swhask> ghc: failed with error code 127
02:52:26 * Arnia shrugs
02:52:27 <zachb> h> ghc: failed with error code 127
02:52:28 <swhask> ghc: failed with error code 127
02:52:33 <zachb> YAY! I wrote a quine!
02:52:52 <zachb> I'm so good at haskell, I'm the haskell master-ell
02:53:29 <kpreid> :(
02:54:00 <kpreid> I think the version/build of hs-plugins or lambdabot I'm running is incompatible with osx 10.5
02:54:12 <kpreid> hm, I should try just rebuilding
02:55:06 <ja> i found a cd labeled OSuX 10.0.3
02:55:09 <ja> must be when i invented the name
02:55:28 <ja> as if .0.anything from apple ever was good
02:55:31 <ja> 8.0.1? eww
02:55:36 <ja> 7.0.1? ditto
02:55:39 <ja> even 6.0.3 for that matter
02:58:48 <zachb> I think it'll be funny when they finally move on to 11. Then it will be OSXI, which phonetically is pronounced "oh sexy"
02:59:29 <ja> 11 on freBSD kernel would be sexy
03:00:12 <ja> avie's gone now, theres hope for a xnu-frankenbeast-less future
03:04:05 <zachb> I don't particularly like Macs. I can't say I dislike them, since I've never used one for long enough (2 weeks would probably do it).
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03:08:01 <Arnia> I'd not willingly use anything else nowadays
03:08:36 <Arnia> I've grown too weary to cope with Windows or Linux :/
03:09:33 <Arnia> (to be perfectly frank, I'd actually prefer not to use general purpose computers at all)
03:17:27 <zachb> Heh
03:17:49 <zachb> As of late, linux has been acting up... its annoying
03:18:27 <zachb> Under normal conditions, I love it. Hell, apt makes it worth it
03:19:30 <ja> apt is crap
03:19:55 <ja> paludis works on a variety of kernel/lib/toolchain combos, such as linux or freebsd
03:20:20 <ja> apt is a huge pile of spaghetti perl that can only effectively download and install precompiled binaries with fixed configurations..
03:24:38 <ja> effectively meaning without all sorts of niggling around . compiling from source is much easier with pacman, portage, paludis, and proably others i havent kept up with
03:25:05 <ja> esp when you get into the fact that apt's naming syste is hacked to get around lack of features like concurrent versions, different configurations of same version, etc
03:25:32 <ja> also its DB is a single flat file, which is almost impossible to edit by hand w/o breaking their crazy ass regexes
03:25:38 <ja> screw apt
03:26:11 * ja not sure running OSX kernel is worth wahtever GUI apps they have. none seem compelling
03:27:19 <zachb> ja: I want precompiled binaries
03:27:27 <zachb> I want my programs *now*, that's why I like apt
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03:27:40 <ja> on my 3 year old computer the longest i have to wait for anything is like
03:27:43 <ja> 20 minutes, for firefox
03:27:49 <ja> but yeah, id never run somethign so bloated
03:27:52 <ja> dillo compiles in like 10 seconds
03:27:54 <zachb> If I really want to compile something, I use apt to get the source and compile it
03:27:55 <ja> dwm, about 1 or 2 seconds
03:27:59 <ja> so, its a non issue
03:28:02 <ja> dont run bloated crap, no compile time :)
03:28:26 <ja> granted, i use emacs, which takes about 10 mins to build
03:29:10 <ja> but on debian i doubt i could even get it grabbing v23 branch and set certain configure options with a single "USE=xft -gtk" prefix to the emerge command..
03:29:21 <ja> anwyays people use what works for them, duh
03:29:37 <ja> when installing for other people i use debian just to get it over with
03:29:55 <zachb> But as I said, if I needed to compile something, I do. I don't often... but I have done it before
03:30:10 <ja> pinning and telling it youve installed something yourself is nontrivial, ive found
03:30:20 <ja> maybe apt just hates me, or it doesnt jibe with how my mind works
03:30:30 <ja> i think its a physio-psychological mismatch with me
03:30:44 <ja> 'learn the debian way' vs 'ok, thats simple and makes sense'
03:31:05 <zachb> Wow, someone is very emotional...
03:31:20 <ja> mkdir -p /var/db/pkg/my/pkg-version && echo 0 > PF is usually like, enough, to fool portage, something liek that
03:31:28 <zachb> I'm going to just walk away. I don't love apt *that* much
03:31:39 <ja> im just saying, if you think that makes linux 'worth it'
03:31:44 <ja> look around more, then youll realize youre not even pinned to linux
03:31:50 <zachb> There is no software that I love that much
03:32:16 <ja> mutt, irssi, dillo, ruby, mplayer, emacs
03:32:24 <ja> thats prett muc the only shit i ever use, and dont actively hate
03:32:46 <zachb> heh
03:32:52 <clsn> .ety boy
03:32:53 <phenny> "1154, boie 'servant, commoner, knave, boy,' possibly from O.Fr. embuie 'one fettered,' from V.L. *imboiare, from L. boia 'leg iron, yoke, leather collar,' from Gk. boeiai dorai 'ox hides.' But it also appears to be identical with E.Fris. boi 'young gentleman,' and [...]" - http://etymonline.com/?term=boy
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03:55:00 <Monty> it's ja!
04:03:31 <Arnia> ja: what a strange reasoning (for me at least). What is the importance of the kernel?
04:04:24 <ja> Arnia: hardware 'just working'. ive always had way better luck on linux than freebsd or osx
04:04:48 <ja> Arnia: a cross-kernel driver toolkit that was actualy used would be cool, as would a million other things. im just pragmatic
04:06:02 <Arnia> Really? My experience has been no hardware problems in OS X and hundreds in Linux (where just a simple point release of something or other could regress hardware capability; screw continuous updates if they produce more trouble than they're worth. I'll wait for my upgrades thank you)
04:06:13 <ja> my OSX routinely kernel paniced
04:06:20 <ja> beacuse i had a 3rd party USB card, since the G3 didnt have USB
04:06:22 <ja> and their driver didnt quite like it
04:06:32 <ja> granted, G3s are old, as are 10.0, but the experience stuck
04:07:02 <Arnia> I'm very pragmatic. I just find Linux to be much more unstable than OS X, which is why I completely switched.
04:09:02 * Arnia is very disenchanted with Linux as an OS and a community :/
04:09:11 <ja> another exmaple, my Audio drivers
04:09:18 <ja> the manuf rlsed GPL 'skeletal' version ages ago
04:09:24 <ja> it ran on 64bit linux years before 64bit windows or macosx
04:09:30 <ja> and had no help from the mfr..
04:09:37 <ja> i was left without audio on the ither OSes. audio is very important to me
04:10:07 <Arnia> yeah, but you're presuming a particular way of putting together computers. A way I no longer believe to be the best way to do it
04:10:42 <Arnia> I now think that the end-user component model is the wrong way to treat something as hideously complex and with as many interactions as a general purpose computer
04:11:43 <ja> many overlaying, redunant/conflicting options in linux is what i like. its a real combinatorial soup
04:11:54 <ja> vs the cathedral approach of apple (and largely freebsd). personality thing i guess
04:11:57 <Arnia> Mind you, I'm also dubious about end-user GP computing in general. If it is to be done, I do think it should be done grid style, rather than personal computer style
04:11:58 <ja> im not sure what you mean there
04:12:01 <ja> w/ the component model
04:12:19 <Arnia> ja: you build a computer out of lots of little components where you can mix and match as you see fit
04:12:34 <Arnia> ja: and it is YOU as an end-user who does it (rather than the manufacturer)
04:14:04 <ja> i'll proably go aple or HP this round
04:14:19 <ja> despite paying for an OS i'll never use in either case
04:14:47 <Arnia> why wouldn't you use OS X?
04:15:24 <ja> syscall latency is horrendous
04:15:36 <ja> i do a lot of DB improvization using syscalls and vfs
04:15:44 <ja> since i think mysql/couchdb are to monolithic and predefined
04:15:48 <ja> its just a lot faster
04:15:52 <ja> w/ BTRfs or Reiser4, than anything else
04:15:57 <Arnia> ...
04:15:59 <ja> and those both only work on linux
04:16:13 <Arnia> ja: what is your job?
04:16:13 <ja> pragmatic decision again..
04:16:34 <ja> to try to get paid to do what i dont get paid to do, mainly
04:16:38 <ja> that and occasionally do what im not interested, to get paid
04:16:46 * Arnia thinks
04:16:53 <ja> i dont have any college/uni credentials, so i cant like write papers or wahtever 'research' people do
04:16:53 <Monty> anything is horrendous
04:16:59 <ja> so i just write blog posts, and do random odd jobs
04:17:12 <ja> since im not enamored w/ the few places that occasionally try to hire me (google, yahoo, etc)
04:17:21 <Arnia> In general, I find excessive optimisation (particularly of server systems) is anything but pragmatic
04:17:32 <Arnia> although it does look impressive :p
04:18:06 <Arnia> And you can write papers without having a degree at all
04:18:30 <Arnia> you can be an academic without a PhD, a professor (UK meaning of professor) even, but it is of course more tricky
04:18:39 <ja> im not sure thats one of my goals
04:18:43 <ja> but it would be an interesting challenge
04:18:50 <ja> it begets a certain focus/discipline ive been building over time
04:18:51 * Arnia isn't sure he likes the implied criticism of research
04:18:53 <ja> but clearly have much to go on
04:19:16 <ja> the selection process intrigues me
04:19:40 <Arnia> Selection process?
04:19:49 <ja> what gets published, chosen for conference presentation, etc
04:19:59 <ja> it seems rather detached from what i see as 'needs' often
04:20:02 <Arnia> Oh, that's easy
04:20:14 <ja> as in its novelty rather than 'paving' existing ground, bridging well known gaps, etc
04:20:20 <Arnia> It is stuff which can be seen to work and is relevant to the publication forum
04:21:12 <Arnia> It should be novel, yes. But a well known gap is still novel if it is solved by a publication
04:21:36 <ja> also i think it requires a certainl familiarity
04:21:42 <ja> with damn near 'everything'
04:21:49 <ja> i cant be sure someone wrote the same thing 10 years ago
04:21:57 <ja> altho im getting beter there heh
04:22:19 <Arnia> These are the criteria I use when writing and reviewing papers both; can I explain to a layman (which often the reviewer is in the field you're writing) why this is important? Can I explain my solution? Can I criticise my own work?
04:22:23 * ja can underand about half of the monad/functor chatter
04:23:01 <Arnia> ja: the point of the PhD process, and the reason it has become almost essential to get into academia, is to allow you time to become intimately familiar with a field
04:23:53 <ja> i wish breadth of field and interconnectednes was rewarded the same kind of accolade
04:23:53 <Monty> boooo
04:23:56 <ja> instead of hyperspecialization
04:24:38 <Arnia> ja: we're still in a hyperspecialisation period. I'm confident we'll leave that soon
04:25:04 <Arnia> (I hope so, because I sit in many different subjects)
04:27:50 <Arnia> Also, there is a lot of incentive to do interdisciplinary work now. The research councils in the UK are giving priority to projects which show such a side
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06:42:16 <xover> phenny: tell sbp <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bingo_%28play%29>, if you hadn't seen it.
06:42:16 <phenny> xover: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
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06:59:01 <Monty> howdy, danja
07:00:53 <Arnia> Hey danja (for a more human introduction than that given by Monty)
07:00:54 <Monty> there was trying to be sexy
07:01:18 <Arnia> Monty: I can talk to people without flirting you know
07:01:19 <Monty> anwyays
07:01:26 <Arnia> Monty: yes?
07:01:28 <Monty> Arnia: a moment to just rebuilding
07:02:28 <danja> *grin*
07:02:42 <danja> morning Arnia
07:02:59 <Arnia> How are you?
07:07:37 <danja> pretty good actually
07:08:01 <ja> thats good.
07:08:13 <ja> was a bit shocked when i did my every 2-week read of planetrdf..
07:08:40 <danja> only every 2-week? now that's shocking :-)
07:09:02 <ja> yes. i need a 'page 2' to ensure nothing was missed
07:09:21 <danja> heh
07:10:15 <Arnia> I've entirely gotten out of the habit of reading the various planets
07:10:30 <ja> 'twingly is in my reader
07:10:39 <ja> thats about it. oh and Haskell..
07:10:40 <Arnia> Should really get back into it, but after I've finished my thesis. I'm always in danger of going off on a tangent when I read stuff
07:10:45 <Arnia> Can't afford the time right now
07:10:54 <xover> Arnia! Astrologers the world over will shun you!
07:11:40 * Arnia reads xover's entrails
07:12:03 <xover> You flirt!
07:12:29 <danja> I've got a folder with all the planets in firefox, do an 'open in tabs'
07:12:45 <xover> Ah, not “Auto-Click” then?
07:13:01 * xover stares balefully at the Safari developers…
07:13:30 <Arnia> xover: you could hack it in by editing the nib and using F-Script, maybe
07:13:32 * Arnia ducks
07:13:41 <Arnia> actually, applescript would be fine there
07:13:47 * Arnia shrugs
07:13:51 <Arnia> Hrm
07:13:56 <Arnia> I hate writing code...
07:14:04 <Arnia> So unsatisfying
07:14:12 <danja> Arnia, can you make head/tail of http://phaneron.rickmurphy.org/?p=25 ?
07:15:42 <Arnia> danja: one sec
07:16:29 <Arnia> Right, give me a few minutes to read and digest and I'll get back to you :)
07:16:41 * Arnia needs to grab some breakfast whilst he reads
07:16:45 <danja> no rush!
07:19:04 <danja> bleah, just remembered the next thing I've got to do is sort out some Apache config :-(
07:25:00 * danja reaches for valium
07:25:35 <Arnia> Oh my, that's a strange little post
07:25:41 * Arnia ponders
07:27:49 <Arnia> It points to the right literature, and seems well-informed, but I don't agree with his conclusions entirely. For one, he seems to change direction part way through.
07:27:49 <Arnia> He list all the horrendous problems with defining meaning in formal logic (in fact, I would go so far as to say that the problems are insurmountable as long as we cling to a classical definition of truth) but then says RDF is great because it adopts the classical definition of truth and formal logic
07:28:19 <Arnia> It feels as if the first part and the last part of his argument just do not go together
07:29:41 <Arnia> Further, he criticises description logic (or points to a problem with it given the assumptions it makes; the indefinability of concepts given classical classification) and then says that the criticism is invalid because description logic literature uses the term concept liberally and therefore it must be definable
07:31:52 <Arnia> This makes me concerned, because I feel similar things are pervasive in the Semantic Web (big S big W) community at-large. There is a tendency, understandable given external social and political pressures, to self-justify one's approach by appealing to the approach itself as argument. This circular reasoning doesn't entirely hold up to scrutiny but keeps funding coming and allows one to approach wide-spread deployment
07:33:31 <Arnia> Unfortunately, it also presents a danger that people start believing that RDF is enough for meaning. Not just laypersons, but also the researchers themselves. Generally, the academic side has held up better than the developer side (although both have members who are quite dogmatic over the RDF model).
07:34:18 <Arnia> Some however are genuinely convinced that if something cannot be represented in RDF, that this makes it unworthy of representation and uninteresting. This isn't just 'if all you have is hammer', it is selective blindness to anything which doesn't resemble a nail, or at least a flat surface for bashing.
07:35:56 <Arnia> Myself, and sbp and others, have complained in here, on our respective websites, and in private about these attitudes from certain people and the community at large. My own take on the state of the Semantic Web is therefore more pessimistic for both theoretical (the inadequacies of the RDF model as a model of meaning in an open world such as this one) and social reasons.
07:36:23 <Arnia> Ahem. That was a bit of a long rant, however I hope you get the gist
07:36:40 <danja> cool, thanks
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07:45:56 <Arnia> anyone else want to chime in and tear this rant to pieces?
07:46:12 * Arnia could do with some criticism, even if only dialectic
07:46:24 <xover> “NU”?
07:46:35 * xover -> `ork…
07:46:49 * danja has to bash head against Apache for a bit...
07:51:53 * Arnia bashes Apache against the nearest rock
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07:53:33 <cre8radix> moin:zen
07:53:53 * Arnia deletes cre8radix using a convenient source of entropy
07:54:46 <cre8radix> und täglich grüßt das murmeltier...
07:55:15 * cre8radix recompiles himself and flushes arnia down the datadrain
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07:57:58 <cre8radix> oops
07:58:02 <cre8radix> it worked!
07:58:04 <cre8radix> omg
07:58:33 * cre8radix feels bad and tries to catch arnia in a net at the end of the tunnel
08:06:21 * danja joins #apache with trepidation
08:06:46 <Arnia> Let us know how evil they're feeling today
08:06:58 * Arnia eats cre8radix with horseraddish
08:07:05 <Arnia> -d
08:07:14 <cre8radix> :D
08:07:23 <Arnia> mm... horseradish
08:07:39 <cre8radix> mm cre8radix
08:08:18 * cre8radix gets himself a coffee
08:08:44 <cre8radix> to increase his flavour
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08:14:03 <Monty> yo leobard!
08:19:54 <danja> ok, there are always regex smarty-pants around here, so how about this:
08:20:30 <danja> match everything except .rss
08:20:56 <Arnia> take it character by character?
08:21:36 <Arnia> It is accepted if the first character is not '.' or if that is the case if the second character is not 'r', etc.
08:21:37 <danja> see http://n2.talis.com/wiki/DanjaTemp
08:21:58 <Arnia> There may be a notational shorthand there, but I'd imagine it would be dependent on the library being used
08:23:02 <danja> I think I *may* be able to do it using http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/mod/mod_proxy.html#proxypassmatch
08:23:37 <danja> but am crap at regexs
08:25:38 <Arnia> hmm
08:25:38 <Monty> the gut, apparently.
08:25:50 <Arnia> Monty: you regexp your gut?
08:25:52 <Monty> although it is like that RDF model).
08:25:53 <Arnia> Only with machines...
08:26:06 * Arnia frets over Monty a bit
08:26:06 <Monty> Seriously though, why wouldn't you time :)
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09:02:00 <sbp> yo
09:02:00 <phenny> sbp: 06:42Z <xover> tell sbp <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bingo_%28play%29>, if you hadn't seen it.
09:02:12 <Arnia> Hey sbp
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09:02:27 <sbp> 'ello Arnia
09:02:30 <sbp> just digesting your rant
09:02:36 <sbp> high in fibre, thankfully
09:02:54 <Arnia> hah
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09:13:24 <sbp> .title http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/08/07/20/1457250.shtml
09:13:28 <phenny> sbp: Slashdot | Linux Needs More Haters
09:13:29 <sbp> awesome
09:13:38 <sbp> phenny: tell nslater http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/08/07/20/1457250.shtml (.title it for luls)
09:13:38 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when nslater is around.
09:14:25 <sbp> .title http://www.follies.org.uk/
09:14:27 <phenny> sbp: Folly Fellowship Homepage
09:14:30 <sbp> much win, via Paul Collins
09:17:43 <sbp> http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_7515000/7515225.stm
09:17:44 <sbp> - Humphrys and the Naughtie gang
09:17:50 <sbp> not quite sure what to say about that
09:17:58 <sbp> except that it's one of the strangest things I've read in ages
09:18:58 <sbp> [[[
09:18:59 <sbp> THREE journalists were hurt when a gun went off at a press conference called by Chinese police to highlight the success of a gun-control campaign.
09:19:04 <sbp> ]]] - http://www.theweirdpost.com/wordpress/2008/07/china-3-reporters-shot-at-gun-control-press-conference/
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09:22:40 <Monty> yo Arnia!
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10:41:41 <Monty> Speak of the devil, it's ja!
10:42:04 <ja> speak of monty, its .. more nonsense!!
10:42:09 <ja> monty you should read ZIPPY
10:42:10 <Monty> Why?
10:42:12 <Monty> anwyays people i dont even 6.0.3 for quite like that apt's naming syste is horrendous problems with the gut, apparently.
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11:19:31 <sbp> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:SPEEDLIMIT2535.JPG
11:31:02 <deltab> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Grenville_Diptych_edit2.jpg
11:31:51 <sbp> heh yeah, seen that
11:46:01 <clsn> sbp: so, I figure the only useful reason to have that w_v_w ligature in the Feijoa font is for use in URLs for 'www'. Why it has only five v's and not six I don't know.
11:53:43 <sbp> ooh
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11:56:57 * clsn works on putting one in Marin.
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11:59:26 <Monty> hi MoiraA_
12:09:33 * clsn puts it in the dlig ligature table; probably nobody'll see it there.
12:09:48 * clsn decides to go with a full six v's.
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12:21:05 <Arnia> grr... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7516551.stm
12:21:07 <Arnia> .title
12:21:08 <phenny> Arnia: BBC NEWS | Politics | Benefit shake-up 'revolutionary'
12:21:46 <Arnia> "If you can find work you should take it, if there isn't work there you should take steps to get back into work."
12:24:37 <clsn> Wow, I'm glad the papers are giving such brilliant advice.
12:27:21 <zachb> Hah, wow
12:27:21 <spb> hooray for an utterly retarded government
12:27:23 <Morbus> jsled: sup. i think we're tied for trophies (count) again. i've gotten to 9x like 4 times now. /me sighs.
12:27:23 <phenny> Morbus: 20 Jul 16:21Z <danja> tell Morbus http://n2.talis.com/wiki/DanjaTemp he-elp!
12:27:57 <Arnia> spb: what is worse, is that the Opposition agree with the Government on this
12:28:13 <clsn> .title http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7509572.stm
12:28:14 <phenny> clsn: BBC NEWS | Magazine | How not to do an American accent
12:28:27 <spb> Arnia: they're both as stupid as each other
12:28:45 <clsn> Kind of interesting article about actors studying to do an American accent (or conversely, an English one).
12:29:23 * clsn notes the picture near the bottom. Indeed, Hugh Laurie's American accent, and whole American gestalt, is fantastic.
12:30:03 <Arnia> clsn: is there an awareness in the US of how Oxbridge Hugh Laurie actually is?
12:30:15 <Arnia> I mean a general awareness
12:30:45 <Morbus> phenny, tell danja have you tried moving lines 19 and 20 BEFORE line 17?
12:30:45 <phenny> Morbus: I'll pass that on when danja is around.
12:30:46 <clsn> No, I don't think so. He's known almost exclusively from House, and he is fucking awesome there.
12:31:28 <clsn> I hear that when the directors viewed his audition tape, one of them said, "That's it! That's what we need, a real *American* character." Didn't know Laurie was British.
12:32:09 <Arnia> hah
12:32:21 <clsn> I actually like to pay attention to what makes accents happen, listening to other people's voices. Just what is it about their vowels, their consonants...
12:32:46 <danja> Morbus...not yet, ta - got iand looking at live it right now
12:32:47 <phenny> danja: 12:30Z <Morbus> tell danja have you tried moving lines 19 and 20 BEFORE line 17?
12:33:07 <Morbus> danja: ordering tends to be very important in apache.
12:33:12 <Morbus> http://pastebin.com/m401f5114
12:33:18 <danja> btw Morbus, what *do* you do at weekends
12:33:31 <Morbus> in your case, line 17 proxies everything to :8080, before it even gets to 19 and 20.
12:33:48 <Morbus> danja: family time, etc.
12:33:49 <Morbus> though, for the past three months, i've been working on a new bbc site.
12:33:50 <Morbus> which should launch this week, actually.
12:33:58 <Morbus> more on my blog later.
12:34:03 <spb> < clsn> I hear that when the directors viewed his audition tape, one of them said, "That's it! That's what we need, a real *American* character." Didn't know Laurie was British. <== someone show them Blackadder
12:34:20 <clsn> Heh...
12:34:41 <Arnia> Jeeves and Wooster too
12:35:03 <spb> anything with fry and laurie
12:35:05 <Arnia> oh, and Not the Nine O'Clock News, etc
12:35:09 <Morbus> Jeeves and Wooster? I have that musical.
12:35:11 <clsn> I don't think I've seen him in any of those.
12:35:19 <clsn> But he is SOOO good in House. :)
12:35:29 <Morbus> By Jeeves: 1996 London Revival Cast
12:35:39 <Arnia> .wik Jeeves and Wooster
12:35:39 <phenny> "Jeeves and Wooster is a British comedy television series adapted by Clive Exton from P.G. Wodehouse's Jeeves stories." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeeves_and_Wooster
12:35:58 <Morbus> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/By_Jeeves
12:36:00 <spb> clsn: watch them both
12:36:04 <spb> they're brilliant
12:36:12 <clsn> Probably should.
12:36:15 <Morbus> "Ayckbourn utilized characters and plot lines from several Jeeves and Wooster stories, and Lloyd Webber provided a strong period score."
12:36:58 <MacTed> loggy, pointer
12:36:58 <loggy> http://swhack.com/logs/2008-07-21#T12-36-58
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12:39:34 <Arnia> .title http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/nickrobinson/2008/07/politics_v_econ.html
12:39:36 <phenny> Arnia: BBC NEWS | Nick Robinson's Newslog
12:39:42 <Arnia> hrm
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13:33:00 <Arnia> nslater: Don't know if you've seen this but: http://idcorner.org/2007/08/22/the-problems-with-openid/
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13:35:57 <zachb> Yeah, openid always struck me as something a bit off
13:37:13 <Arnia> I still believe this is one of those cases where it is impossible to come to a solution when our abstractions are all still classical
13:37:34 <Arnia> Trust is an all-or-nothing affair, or constructed out of all-or-nothing components
13:37:46 <Arnia> We have identity done in an all-or-nothing way
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13:37:59 <zachb> mhmm
13:38:31 * Arnia will eventually define a coherent model of evidential computation
13:39:56 <sbp> .ety inert
13:39:57 <phenny> "1647, from Fr. inerte (16c.), from L. inertem (nom. iners) 'unskilled, inactive,' from in- 'without' + ars (gen. artis) 'skill' (see art (n.))." - http://etymonline.com/?term=inert
13:39:58 <sbp> .ety inertia
13:40:01 <phenny> "1713, used as a term in physics 17c. by Ger. astronomer and physician Johann Kepler (1571-1630), from L. inertia 'unskillfulness, idleness,' from iners (gen. inertis) 'unskilled, inactive,' see inert." - http://etymonline.com/?term=inertia
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14:08:45 <Monty> welcome, djl
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14:10:52 <Arnia> nslater: ping?
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14:13:11 <nsh> HA! HA! I'm using the internets!
14:13:19 <spb> no u
14:18:16 * sbp defacts nsh
14:18:23 <sbp> you are now a defacton
14:18:43 * Arnia infacts sbp for defacting nsh's factorum
14:18:54 <nsh> that's that worst kiend?!
14:19:06 <Arnia> BOING
14:19:07 <sbp> I was marvelling yesterday at how many -here words there are
14:19:14 <sbp> almost as many as -duction
14:19:19 <sbp> you've got inhere, adhere, cohere...
14:19:25 <nsh> .ety -here
14:19:26 <phenny> Can't find the etymology for "-here". Try http://etymonline.com/?search=-here
14:19:30 <nsh> .ety adhere
14:19:31 <phenny> Can't find the etymology for "adhere". Try http://etymonline.com/?search=adhere
14:19:41 <nsh> WHY U FAIL SO MUTCH?!
14:19:48 <sbp> it's web based
14:19:48 <Arnia> Not as good as 'pick a preposition and make it deitic'
14:20:00 <Arnia> hereto/thereto, hereby/thereby, etc.
14:20:03 <sbp> .dict deitic
14:20:05 <phenny> sbp: Sorry, no definition found.
14:20:11 <Arnia> deixis
14:20:16 <Arnia> .wik deixis
14:20:16 <phenny> "In pragmatics and linguistics, deixis[1]| is collectively the orientational features of human languages to have reference to points in time, space, and the speaking event between interlocutors." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deixis
14:20:22 <sbp> "Deitic utterances relate a word to the time or place of utterance and are personal pronouns, demonstrative adverbs etc examples would include ‘in front of’, ..."
14:20:59 <sbp> ooh. hereas, herefore... hmm
14:21:13 <clsn> shouldn't that be deictic?
14:21:34 <clsn> (it's Daffy Duck's "Pronoun trouble")
14:21:49 <sbp> DUCK SEASON!
14:21:52 <sbp> wabbit season!
14:21:53 <sbp> DUCK SEASON!
14:21:54 <sbp> wabbit season!
14:21:56 <sbp> DUCK SEASON!
14:21:56 <sbp> wabbit season!
14:22:30 <nsh> i sense a pattern here
14:23:39 <Arnia> BADGER SEASON!
14:40:42 <procto> that lemind- me of my favourite linguistics joke (written by pullum)
14:41:40 <procto> Q: two linguists were walking together. Which one was the expert on deixis and anaphor resolution strategies?
14:41:44 <procto> A: The other one.
14:42:19 <clsn> Ugh.
14:42:34 <clsn> Oh that is so bad. It grows on you the more you think about it.
14:42:42 * procto is still rolling on the floor
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14:57:18 <sbp> .gc "apparatus of war"
14:57:19 <phenny> "apparatus of war": 336
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15:11:40 <zachb> .gc "eye of the potato"
15:11:41 <phenny> "eye of the potato": 12,100
15:11:58 <zachb> .gc you are the eye of my potato
15:11:59 <phenny> you are the eye of my potato: 472,000
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15:25:54 <Monty> bah, it's panni_ again
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15:37:50 <MoiraA> hello sbp, everyone
15:39:24 <sbp> hello MoiraA
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15:45:32 <MoiraA> I'm fed up sbp
15:47:31 <sbp> sorry to hear that
15:49:22 <Schroeder> MoiraA: maybe you should puke
15:49:22 <Schroeder> then you'll be hungry again
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15:51:48 <sbp> Schroeder: eh?
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15:53:27 <sbp> Schroeder: do you ever make sense, incidentally?
15:53:44 <Schroeder> from time to time
15:53:46 <Schroeder> when the mood strikes
15:54:05 <nsh> hrm
15:54:10 <MoiraA> yeah what wast that comment?
15:54:15 <MoiraA> *was
15:54:16 <Schroeder> you said you were fed up
15:54:19 <Schroeder> note the word "fed"
15:54:24 <Schroeder> which implies you've been eating a lot
15:54:25 <Schroeder> so
15:54:26 <Schroeder> if you vomit
15:54:30 <Schroeder> then you'll be hungry again
15:54:31 <MoiraA> yeah that sort of reply isn't helpful
15:54:42 <sbp> ooh, a very bad pun which I missed
15:55:06 <MoiraA> think I'll just go to bed for a bit
15:55:35 * Schroeder is quite a punny guy
15:55:44 <nsh> "O.E. fedan "nourish, feed," from P.Gmc. *fothjanan (cf. O.S. fodjan, O.Fris. feda, Goth. fodjan "to feed"). The noun sense of "food for animals" is first attested 1588. Fed up "surfeited, disgusted, bored," is British slang first recorded 1900, extended to U.S. by World War I; probably from earlier phrases like fed up to the back teeth."
15:56:38 <sbp> which would be akin to "I've had enough"
15:58:19 <Schroeder> yes
15:58:23 <Schroeder> I know its idiomatic meaning
15:58:30 <Schroeder> being a native English speaker and all
15:58:38 <MoiraA> I've had enough of verdict
15:58:40 <Schroeder> you're...missing the point
16:00:16 <sbp> I was just trying to trace the idiom back
16:00:27 <sbp> I mean, I wonder if "I've had enough" as an idiom came first for example
16:00:28 <sbp> I'll bet it did
16:00:58 <sbp> though then again I wouldn't be surprised if metaphorical senses developed first
16:01:07 <jsled> MoiraA: "verdict"?
16:01:22 <sbp> I think we use the word "see" more often in the sense of understand than of vision
16:01:24 <MoiraA> yes
16:01:27 <zachb> I'm curious about "pissed off", personally
16:01:28 <MoiraA> some charming user
16:01:41 <sbp> .ety pissed off
16:01:42 <phenny> Can't find the etymology for "pissed off". Try http://etymonline.com/?search=pissed off
16:02:21 <bancus> .g "pissed off" quote "men in tights"
16:02:22 <phenny> bancus: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107977/quotes
16:02:23 <zachb> you need to do s/ /%20/ :P
16:02:37 <bancus> .title
16:02:38 <phenny> bancus: Robin Hood: Men in Tights (1993) - Memorable quotes
16:02:50 <Schroeder> ok, trombone practice time
16:02:55 <sbp> [[[
16:02:56 <sbp> We can be sure that the angry meaning of pissed off became popular among the Armed Forces in World War II, and entered into mainstream use during the post-war years. In 1946 it was defined as a new word in American Speech XXI: "This means roughly, fed-up, irritated, depressed." Some linguists and historians think the expression must have been well known during the war years, citing a story about General Eisenhower’s dog. The story goes that the dog (Felix) urin
16:02:56 <sbp> ated on a map and the officers joked that the enemy was "pissed off." (Leonard Mosely, Marshall, 1982).
16:03:02 <sbp> ]]] - http://www.mtannoyances.com/?p=203
16:03:07 <sbp> smells of folk etymology to me
16:03:19 <sbp> though I note that occasionally something that smells strongly of folk etymology turns out to be true
16:03:29 <zachb> To snopes!
16:03:32 <sbp> hehe
16:06:39 <zachb> Did anyone else see that thing on snopes about weather or not the couple who made snopes sends out spam email to continue to get business?
16:06:46 <zachb> I found that hilarious
16:17:34 <zachb> Why does everyone shut up when I join in?
16:18:23 <xover> Can't you take a hint, man?
16:18:36 *** sbp changed the topic to: "A Hushed Quiet Descends"
16:18:52 * zachb cries
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16:19:52 <MoiraA> I'm going to bed
16:20:27 <zachb> 'nite
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16:32:41 <MacTed> .gc referenceable referencable dereferenceable dereferencable
16:32:42 <phenny> referenceable referencable dereferenceable dereferencable: 1
16:32:50 <MacTed> .gcs referenceable referencable dereferenceable dereferencable
16:32:52 <phenny> referenceable (112,000), referencable (22,100), dereferenceable (8,070), dereferencable (6,940)
16:34:18 <MacTed> .gcs referencible dereferencible
16:34:19 <phenny> referencible (434), dereferencible (283)
16:34:29 <MacTed> .ety reference
16:34:30 <phenny> "1589, 'act of referring,' from refer (q.v.)." - http://etymonline.com/?term=reference
16:34:42 <MacTed> .ety referenceable
16:34:42 <phenny> Can't find the etymology for "referenceable". Try http://etymonline.com/?search=referenceable
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16:42:04 <zachb> .ety .ety
16:42:05 <phenny> Can't find the etymology for ".ety". Try http://etymonline.com/?search=.ety
16:42:23 <zachb> .ety foo&bar=baz
16:42:23 <phenny> Can't find the etymology for "foo". Try http://etymonline.com/?search=foo
16:43:36 <MacTed> .wik Cygniak
16:43:38 <phenny> Can't find anything in Wikipedia for "Cygniak".
16:43:44 <MacTed> .wik Cyganiak
16:43:46 <phenny> Can't find anything in Wikipedia for "Cyganiak".
16:43:53 <MacTed> .g Cygniak
16:43:53 <phenny> MacTed: http://groups.google.com/group/sioc-dev/tree/browse_frm/month/2006-12/d32f13e3ba4fb9f6?rnum=11&_done=%2Fgroup%2Fsioc-dev%2Fbrowse_frm%2Fmonth%2F2006-12%3F
16:44:01 <MacTed> .g Cyganiak
16:44:01 <phenny> MacTed: http://www.cyganiakplanning.com/
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17:30:23 <jsled> hmm. anyone have experience using excanvas in IE6 and/or 7 ?
17:30:48 <MacTed> .g "how to write a good rfc"
17:30:53 <phenny> MacTed: No results found for '"how to write a good rfc"'.
17:31:11 <MacTed> .g "how to" write "good rfc"
17:31:12 <phenny> MacTed: http://osdir.com/ml/encryption.bouncy-castle.devel/2005-01/msg00080.html
17:31:22 <jsled> me give good rfc long time.
17:32:04 * jeanniecool is sure you do, Joshles
17:32:08 <jeanniecool> *Joshled
17:34:21 <zachb> I can write a good RFC "I HAV AN IDEA. I powre a motor on a batterii that is charged by a thingie connected to the motor and it makes tons of energies and monies. I is brilliantz"
17:34:51 *** sbp changed the topic to: "Swhack: it's like a douche for your face"
17:35:48 <jeanniecool> zachb, is that the elusive Step 2?
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17:36:42 <MacTed> thass notta RFC. thassa paytent applekayshun!
17:36:58 <sbp> notable phrases from .wik Douche include “Whiff test” and “bacterial vaginosis”
17:37:24 <xover> .gs notable phrases from *
17:37:25 <phenny> notable phrases from *: No results!
17:37:47 <clsn> I think .gs is b0rken.
17:38:17 <jeanniecool> I'm more interested in what prompted SeanB to read the article in the first place!
17:38:34 <sbp> well there was a beauty product advert on in the middle of the Simpsons
17:38:45 <sbp> and it looked pretty tacky, so I thought "pfft, it's like a douche for your face"
17:38:51 <sbp> which I realised might make a good topic
17:39:13 <sbp> and then I was like, I ought to learn more about douchery in general; I'll bet it's a warehouse of intense comic luls
17:39:23 <sbp> so naturally I went to Wikipedia as the first port of call
17:39:55 * jeanniecool nods
17:39:56 <jeanniecool> Okay.
17:40:09 <jeanniecool> That's, well, surprisingly sensical.
17:40:35 <bancus> Like the time I went to wikipedia to find info on license plates and ended up reading about greek pederasty.
17:40:45 <sbp> yeah, heh, I've tafted well off now too
17:40:55 <bancus> Is that what it's called?
17:40:56 <sbp> I got to something about Hittite and I thought "okay, probably should stop now"
17:40:58 <sbp> yeah
17:41:37 <xover> We should have taft-graphs of Wikipedia sessions.
17:41:48 <bancus> .wik taft
17:41:48 <phenny> "The Taft family, a political dynasty from Ohio: William Howard Taft, 27th President of the United States and 10th Chief Justice of the United States" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taft
17:42:03 <bancus> .wn taft
17:42:34 <sbp> 2008-03-21 16:25:46 <kpreid> clsn: tafting is this: http://xkcd.com/214/
17:42:50 <sbp> which also reveals the etymology
17:42:54 <bancus> [citation needed]
17:43:00 <bancus> Oh, I see.
17:43:29 <procto> http://deputy-dog.com/2008/07/17/ever-seen-a-creepier-tower/ awesome ++
17:43:35 <sbp> heh, yeah
17:44:38 <clsn> I still have that on my browser, to show my SO.
17:46:42 <bancus> ATDT 5553223,,1
17:47:17 <xover> !~NO CARRIER
17:47:17 <swhask> Unknown command, try @list
17:48:54 <sbp> @list
17:50:27 <nsh> +++++++ATH0
17:50:43 <nsh> .wik ATH0
17:50:45 <phenny> "The Time Independent Escape Sequence, or TIES, was a short-lived modem standard invented to avoid a patent held by Hayes Microcomputer Products." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_Independent_Escape_Sequence
17:52:27 <nsh> greek pederasty was the best pederasty, before it got commercial and sold out
17:52:31 <nsh> (FACT)
17:52:49 <jeanniecool> NSH++
17:54:22 * nsh remembers make people dial the talking clock using the +++ATH0M1L3DT<x> ping
17:54:38 <nsh> "WTF, MY MODEM IS TELLING ME THE TIEM!?"!"22"
17:54:42 <nsh> that was when the internet was fun
17:54:53 <clsn> I remember (pause) +++ (pause) ATH0...
17:54:55 <jeanniecool> before it got all commercial and sold out?
17:55:58 <zachb> .title http://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/072108-mobile.html?ts0hb=&story=ts_mb
17:55:58 <phenny> zachb: New mobile browsers bringing real Web to handhelds - Network World
17:56:08 <nsh> before the terrible secret of space make all things hollow and meaningless
17:56:10 <clsn> Mobile trousers?
17:56:13 <zachb> Heh, Apple's doing basically the same thing that IE did all over again :P
17:57:09 <xover> How so?
17:57:24 <nsh> WHAT EUW MEEN ZAKKBURR?
17:57:58 <nsh> fuck this "article"
17:58:03 <nsh> FOUR PAGES: NOT FUCKING COOL
17:58:52 <clsn> Articles should be very short words. Just definite ones and indefinite ones.
17:58:57 <nsh> i fact, i'm going go set up a greasemonkey script that emails "TWATFACE.WEBMASTER@<domain>" with a long vitriolic rant everytime it sees a "Next" link
17:59:10 <zachb> Brilliant
17:59:22 <zachb> clsn: correct
17:59:22 <Monty> ;)
17:59:52 <jeanniecool> I like to "click for printable version" when it's an option.
17:59:57 <zachb> nsh: longer if they use either > or raquo
17:59:57 <nsh> (not actually going to do that; it would be productive. instead i will imagine it and store up my hatred like a squirrel gather nuts for winter
18:00:09 <zachb> )
18:00:09 <jeanniecool> Kills all adds, gives me all the text in one screen.
18:00:24 <jeanniecool> s/adds/ads/
18:00:29 <clsn> If you have a "next" link, it should at least have a *true* <link rel="next"...> in the header.
18:00:34 <zachb> jeanniecool: clever
18:00:38 <xover> And utterly useless for its stated purpose when you can just use a normal print stylesheet.
18:00:46 <zachb> clsn: mhmm
18:01:08 <jeanniecool> zachb, I have my moments. :-)
18:01:08 <Tene> nsh: shouldn't that be webmaster+twatface@?
18:01:10 <clsn> I was careful in the KLI website; I have very elaborate <link> stuff set up, all through the email archives and beyond.
18:01:21 <nsh> Tene, yes
18:01:28 <clsn> Alternate versions, level up, last, the whole deal/
18:01:52 <zachb> Tene: They should have a catchall, no? If they don't, then they fail so much that they should get 3 more rants
18:09:51 <deltab> jeanniecool: some remove the nice images, sidebars and section headings :-(
18:10:27 <jeanniecool> Yeah, a downside. But when I really want the story....
18:10:38 * bancus wonders if he's the only one who's ever considered faking up an apt tree for college courses to do dependency tracking.
18:10:44 <deltab> and some still have ads!
18:11:08 <bancus> apt-get install bachelor-comp-sci
18:11:56 <xover> apt-get install hot-college-girls
18:12:16 <sbp> lol! even aptitude doesn't let you do that!!
18:12:19 <jsled> bancus: man tsort
18:12:19 <Monty> no :p cool - but am thinking about it. oh right :p
18:12:34 <sbp> tsort has the worst man page of any tool ever
18:12:43 <bancus> jsled: Doesn't tell me anything.
18:12:44 <jsled> I mean, if you just want a topological sort of a set of stuff, no need to make apt do it.
18:13:35 <jsled> Fine. `info tsort` then. :p
18:13:42 <sbp> cf. http://inamidst.com/stuff/noets#n15
18:14:14 <bancus> Gives me the same info.
18:14:22 <bancus> Pretty sure it's just giving me the man page.
18:18:37 <zachb> .gc frequently
18:18:38 <phenny> frequently: 237,000,000
18:20:19 <zachb> wow, tsort makes sense now@
18:20:23 <zachb> s/@/!
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18:50:03 * MoiraA wakes up
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18:57:28 <xover> .gc "What a piece of work is a man"
18:57:29 <phenny> "What a piece of work is a man": 24,600
18:57:34 <xover> .gc "What a piece of work is man"
18:57:34 <phenny> "What a piece of work is man": 99,600
18:57:39 <xover> Meh.
18:59:04 <MacTed> .gc "What a piece of work is woman"
18:59:14 <zachb> phenny!
18:59:14 <phenny> zachb!
18:59:15 <phenny> "What a piece of work is woman": 401
18:59:27 <xover> .gc "You're some piece of work"
18:59:38 <phenny> "You're some piece of work": 617
18:59:54 <jeanniecool> .gc "get a job"
18:59:54 <phenny> "get a job": 13,100,000
18:59:55 <MacTed> .gcs you're some piece of *
18:59:58 <phenny> of (15,140,000,000), some (2,800,000,000), you're (1,050,000,000), piece (433,000,000), * (0)
19:00:15 <MacTed> .gs you're some piece of *
19:00:16 <phenny> you're some piece of *: No results!
19:00:19 <MacTed> gr. that.
19:00:23 <MacTed> what?!
19:00:32 <MacTed> .gs piece of *
19:00:37 <phenny> piece of *: statuary)
19:00:49 <MacTed> b0rked. b0rked b0rked b0rked.
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19:02:32 <sbp> .gs test *
19:02:43 <phenny> test *: debut, against)
19:02:48 <sbp> hmm
19:02:51 <xover> phenny: reload sbp
19:02:51 <phenny> ImportError: No module named sbp (file "/var/www/inamidst.com/htdocs/phenny/modules/reload.py", line 23, in f_reload)
19:03:20 <zachb> .gs gs *
19:03:21 <phenny> gs *: No results!
19:03:43 *** phenny has quit (Remote closed the connection)
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19:07:43 <sbp> .gs test *
19:07:44 <phenny> sbp: sorry, .gs no longer works
19:07:45 <sbp> .swhack test
19:07:46 <phenny> sbp: sorry, .swhack no longer works
19:08:08 <xover> phenny: reload sbp
19:08:08 <phenny> ImportError: No module named sbp (file "/var/www/inamidst.com/htdocs/phenny/modules/reload.py", line 23, in f_reload)
19:09:12 <procto> phenny: reload sbp
19:09:15 * procto probably has no privs
19:09:25 <sbp> correct
19:09:45 <sbp> phenny: reload sbp
19:09:46 <phenny> sbp: What?
19:09:48 <sbp> there, that's that fixed too
19:10:35 <xover> phenny: reload sbp
19:10:35 <phenny> xover: What?
19:10:41 <xover> :-)
19:11:13 <sbp> it's a shame the .gs interface is so horrible
19:11:18 <sbp> it's really a mess
19:11:51 <sbp> it was always a fragile hack, and now that they've broken it their end I can't be naffed to fix it
19:13:14 <xover> Fucking Google, allways breaking our shit.
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19:14:02 <sbp> yeah mang
19:14:03 <zachb> how did it work?
19:14:14 <sbp> zachb: hideous fuzzy screenscraping
19:14:46 <sbp> as bj0ern can tell you
19:14:49 <bj0ern> ooooooooooo.eu is the ruling might also be applied to other channels, <schepers> whois monty? ooh those math freaks and their customers
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19:14:51 <Monty> mutt, irssi, dillo, ruby, mplayer, emacs
19:15:02 <zachb> But /how/? what did it do?
19:16:14 <lisppaste2> sbp pasted "googlesplat" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/64018
19:16:24 <sbp> zachb: there
19:16:48 <jsled> lol [[[
19:16:49 <jsled> s = s.replace('<b>', 'OMGSTARTTHING')
19:16:49 <jsled> s = s.replace('</b>', 'OMGENDTHING')
19:16:50 <jsled> ]]]
19:17:03 <sbp> jsled: query.replace('*', 'UIDEMARSDENDOWNLOADS') is funnier
19:17:12 <sbp> there used to be a page (probably still is) that said... well, let's find it
19:17:36 <sbp> [[[
19:17:37 <sbp> This page can be found by searching the web for the 20-letter string uidemarsdendownloads. Please do not put this string in any document that could end up on the web, including email messages and PostScript documents. You can refer to it on the web as the string obtained by removing the - from uid-emarsdendownloads.
19:17:44 <sbp> ]]] - http://www.chez.com/emarsden/downloads/
19:17:56 <sbp> sorry:
19:18:02 <sbp> ]]] - the string obtained by removing the - from uid-emarsdendownloads
19:18:10 <xover> .g UIDEMARSDENDOWNLOADS
19:18:12 <phenny> xover: http://swhack.com/logs/2003-05-14
19:18:15 <sbp> :-)
19:18:20 <xover> Poor guy.
19:18:20 <Monty> no, seriously... why is SOOO good actually like 10 megs of them, and onclick needs to U.S. by appealing to hire me
19:18:22 <jsled> nice
19:18:37 <chandler> I'd hire ya, Monty
19:18:40 <Monty> Not just buy it is, it their consonants...
19:18:57 <sbp> the ironic thing is that it's still really easy for me to find that page
19:19:05 <sbp> because I remember uid-emarsdendownloads because it's just so funny
19:19:23 <sbp> so it works after all!
19:19:46 *** ja (n=c@c-98-216-15-55.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #swhack
19:20:26 * xover grabs Honan and heads for bed…
19:20:50 <sbp> enjoy!
19:21:26 * sbp wonders if that's Marlowe or Shakespeare
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19:25:17 * MoiraA wonders whether to go back to bed
19:25:45 <zachb> I should break it...
19:25:49 <zachb> .gc OMGSTARTHING *
19:25:50 <phenny> OMGSTARTHING *: 0
19:26:01 <zachb> .gs OMGSTARTHING *
19:26:02 <phenny> zachb: sorry, .gs no longer works
19:27:41 <zachb> *single tear*
19:27:42 <Monty> much better luck on something...
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19:33:56 <Tene> spam content before the link: "Paris Hilton To Operate New Atom Smasher"
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19:40:11 <sbp> .wik Rhombicuboctahedron
19:40:12 <phenny> "The rhombicuboctahedron, or small rhombicuboctahedron, is an Archimedean solid with eight triangular and eighteen square faces." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhombicuboctahedron
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19:57:38 <sbp> "Theodsmen adhere to the Three Wynns: Wisdom, Generosity, and Honor"
19:57:39 <sbp> - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodism
19:57:44 <sbp> kinda like the three Rs
20:03:30 <deltab> Theodism for the wynn!
20:05:26 <clsn> I think I have a device on SL that builds rhombicuboctahedra. Or somethign like that
20:06:53 <deltab> sbp: two hours of Meades on BBC4 tonight: a Mark Lawson interview followed by Meades in the Baltic
20:09:01 <sbp> deltab: aw, rats, I have to go soon
20:12:13 <MoiraA> rats indeed
20:12:23 <MoiraA> I *want* to go
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20:12:30 * MoiraA was happy in bed
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20:18:17 <sbp> <Smithers> I think women and seamen don't mix, sir.
20:18:18 <sbp> <Burns> We know what you think.
20:18:42 <zachb> Hah!
20:19:25 <procto> sbp: remember we were talking about speech acts a while ago
20:19:39 <procto> sbp: here's a paper that attempts to define a formal semantics for speech acts: http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/cache/papers/cs/10268/http:zSzzSzwww.csc.ncsu.eduzSzfacultyzSzmpsinghzSzpaperszSzmaszSzamai.pdf/singh98semantics.pdf
20:19:43 <procto> it's a very gentle paper, too
20:19:44 <sbp> procto: yeah, but I'm rebooting now and will be off shortly after I'm afraid...
20:19:47 <sbp> ah, thanks for the link
20:19:49 <procto> Arnia: you may be interested, too
20:20:36 <nsh> formal semantics for speech acts, eh?
20:20:56 <MoiraA> well I'm off for the moment
20:21:03 <nsh> sounds naivilicious
20:21:20 <MoiraA> been a very discontented day
20:21:56 <nsh> they lost me at capitalising "<jÄ?}o?jBÂif??lP|??·?ifi?jBhiu??[?<j3?&o?jBÂifi??l ? o?jÆÅ?j3nÀizh??9ÀkÀBjB{
20:21:56 <nsh> u?9hm??[??ÇWnfioFn$ÀÁn$h?u@fmnu@?¾p?o???????}jkhiui?mnhml·y?ÀB??:o?hij3???'n$ n¾zh2??9o ? vmn$h?u@??
20:21:59 <nsh> HOLY SHIT
20:23:44 * nsh frowns puzzlement and disparagement
20:24:18 <MacTed> no more .gs ? *weeps*
20:24:49 <nsh> unless you're willing to fixinate it yourself
20:25:28 <nsh> this papers looks powerful
20:25:48 <nsh> (add terminal adjective to taste)
20:25:48 *** d3llboy has quit (Remote closed the connection)
20:26:49 <sbp> right, I'm off
20:26:51 <sbp> 'night!
20:26:52 <Monty> mutt, irssi, dillo, ruby, mplayer, emacs
20:27:20 <nsh> night sbp
20:30:41 <nsh> ok, i'll qualify: powerfully stupid.
20:30:53 *** FocusLocus is now known as Noia
20:32:28 * nsh shudders and imagines crawling into a cave
20:53:09 *** MacTed has quit ()
21:12:38 <nsh> .ety whither
21:12:38 <phenny> "O.E. hwider, from P.Gmc. *khwi- 'who' (see who) + -der as in hither and thither." - http://etymonline.com/?term=whither
21:12:47 <nsh> .ety hither
21:12:48 <phenny> "O.E. hider, from P.Gmc. *khideran (cf. O.N. heðra 'here,' Goth. hidre 'hither'), from Gmc. demonstrative base *hi- (cf. he, here)." - http://etymonline.com/?term=hither
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21:23:20 <nsh> .ety docile
21:23:21 <phenny> "1483, from It. or Fr. docile, from L. docilis 'easily taught,' from docere 'teach' (see doctor)." - http://etymonline.com/?term=docile
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21:41:55 <zachb> Arnia: ping?
22:22:54 *** d3llboy (i=d3llboy@gateway/tor/x-e1b96ada566cd02a) has joined #swhack
22:22:55 <Monty> hey d3llboy
22:31:01 <d3llboy> hi Monty
22:31:04 <Monty> syscall latency is hammer', it be sweet
22:37:53 *** deltab changed the topic to: "Swhack: ‹Monty› syscall latency is hammer', it be sweet"
22:42:08 <nsh> when the only tool you have is a syscall latency, everything begins to look like a race condition?
22:42:50 <ja> yep.. http://www.drunkenblog.com/drunkenblog-archives/000385.html
22:44:25 <nsh> http://youtube.com/watch?v=rds_ljcVn-o MOST (ONLY) AWESOME THING TO HAPPEN IN WRESTLING EVER!
22:44:27 <nsh> .title
22:44:28 <phenny> nsh: YouTube - Wrestlers need a chair and fans deliver
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23:25:13 <Arnia> pong
23:25:17 * Arnia wonders
23:25:35 <Arnia> Just got an email I'm fairly sure, no convinced is a virus attempt
23:25:52 <Arnia> However, nowhere in the headers is anything mentioning me
23:25:53 <jsled> Just one?
23:25:57 <Arnia> At all
23:26:07 <Arnia> I'm wondering how it ended up in my mail box
23:26:29 <Arnia> It claims to be from UPS, but is from 'teendile@quik.com'
23:26:38 <Arnia> I'm curious I have to say
23:27:08 <Arnia> (it is very feasible for me to receive a UPS package in the next few weeks as I'm waiting for a set of conference proceedings from last year's ISD)
23:27:18 <jsled> What's the subject?
23:27:53 <jsled> yeah. It's spam.
23:28:01 <jsled> I get like 5 of those a day....
23:28:13 <Arnia> It contains a zip file proclaiming to be an invoice which is actually an executable
23:28:28 <jsled> Seriously, you don't get like 50 of those a day?
23:28:34 <Arnia> Nope
23:28:35 * jsled is doing somethign wrong.
23:31:35 <nsh> ffs
23:31:54 <Arnia> sff
23:31:56 * nsh has definately decided that his current incarnation is some elaborate cosmic practical joke
23:32:00 <Arnia> more sibilant
23:32:17 <nsh> WHY IS EVERYONE SO DENSE!?!?!?
23:32:18 <nsh> :-/
23:32:56 <Arnia> who, wherefore and where?
23:34:12 * nsh just wasted half an hour trying to explain to someone the important of the distinction between signifier and signified and how its neglection leads to the stupidity that is applying predicate logic to linguistic statements about moral decisions and subsequently concieving that morality is the evalution of propositions
23:34:26 <nsh> but no, fucking map and territory, too complex for the average fucking human
23:35:03 <nsh> and by average, i mean average human that likes to discuss philosophy on the internet in joined-up sentences
23:35:11 <nsh> so, you know, 75th percentile idiots
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23:35:38 <Arnia> hah
23:35:48 * Arnia deletes nsh's signified
23:36:02 * nsh sulks and tries to sleep
23:36:18 * clsn tries to see what "applying predicate logic to linguistic statements about moral decisions" means...
23:36:34 <clsn> Maybe it's a Signified Other?
23:36:38 <Arnia> I'm tempted to say that applying predicate logic to anything which isn't maths is a bit silly...
23:36:47 <nsh> that's what i said
23:36:53 <Arnia> actually, anything which isn't a perfect knowledge, static domain
23:37:21 <Arnia> Some non-maths things are still perfect knowledge and static. However, humans definitely aren't
23:37:31 <nsh> in fact i wished i could impose a levy on the use of true and false outside the context of boolean tautological structures and that this levy would be death by violent psychopathic mutilation
23:37:42 <clsn> Aw, but it's okay for extending what you know. You're still allowed to do DeMorgan's Rules and stuff even on squishy things.
23:38:14 <nsh> i'm going back in time and shooting euclid
23:38:21 <nsh> fuck it, axioms have done more harm thana good
23:38:25 <Arnia> Predicate logic works for God, but not for humans trying to describe their pathetic little existences to other bags of water, sugar and protein
23:38:42 <nsh> god cares little for predicate logic, believe me.
23:38:43 <Arnia> Axioms aren't a problem. Assuming that axioms live outside one's own head is
23:39:12 <Arnia> They may be useful, but that doesn't immediately reify them :p
23:39:31 * Arnia sighs before he gets worked up himself
23:39:36 <nsh> yes, well. when the contents of [largely] ones head are projected and reified to be the entire objective universe as a deeply encultured habit the problem is significantly compounded
23:39:51 <clsn> I think I'm missing the dreadful example.
23:40:06 <nsh> http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/07/anything-right.html?cid=123223046#comment-123223046 this sort of nonsense
23:40:10 <Arnia> The dogma over FOPL is quite mad. It is why I get so annoyed when people bandy around terms like 'rational'
23:40:46 <nsh> who fucking writes etcetera except pseudes, anyway
23:40:57 <Arnia> It is the debating equivalent of sticking one's fingers in one's ears
23:41:18 <Arnia> 'Ah, but I'm right because I'm a rationalist!'
23:41:43 <Arnia> As if rationality is inherently better. My response is always 'which rationale?'
23:41:43 <nsh> rational under which order-type of logic? :-)
23:41:48 <nsh> right
23:42:10 <Arnia> I write etcetera --> etc.
23:42:52 * nsh etc. or &c. for the luls
23:43:13 <nsh> if you're going to show that you can spell the words, at least add the space
23:43:15 <clsn> FOPL is nice for working stuff out, but you mustn't forget what your preconceptions are.
23:43:33 * nsh puts this Eliezer on his _list_
23:43:50 <Arnia> clsn: FOPL is great for mathematics. It is grossly misused though.
23:44:14 <clsn> Morality is a construct, though a useful one. And sometimes useful to *pretend* it's somewhat universal over humanity. But don't think it IS.
23:44:45 <Arnia> clsn: FOPL doesn't deal with shades of grey very well, which is what particularly concerns me about nsh's example
23:44:58 <Arnia> None of the objectivist semantics do however
23:45:09 <clsn> Modus Ponens (?), DeMorgan's Laws, etc... all work the same whether the predicates are "two is prime" or "Rickrolling is immoral"
23:45:36 <nsh> sure, and you can encode anything digitally...
23:45:38 <nsh> except you can't
23:45:47 <clsn> Yeah, true, you can't do much with FOPL with fuzzy logic. Well, you can, but there's only so far it goes.
23:46:07 <Arnia> Fuzzy logic is almost as bad
23:46:28 <Arnia> It still requires an externally defined membership function which is universal
23:46:39 <Arnia> And statements like this concern me: 'But as Davidson once observed, if you believe that "beavers" live in deserts, are pure white in color, and weigh 300 pounds when adult, then you do not have any beliefs about beavers, true or false. You must get at least some of your beliefs right, before the remaining ones can be wrong about anything.'
23:46:51 <Arnia> Seems to miss a century of semiotics
23:46:56 <clsn> Hmm... That's mixing levels.
23:47:32 <clsn> It's mixing the word "beavers" in different meanings. What you have is some faulty definitions of the word. Sorta.
23:47:43 <Arnia> Why is the definition faulty?
23:47:52 <nsh> it's classic pseudophilosophical wordplay
23:47:53 <Arnia> It is different, but who decides that it is faulty
23:48:02 <clsn> "at least some beliefs right" is bullshit; then you have to split hairs about "how many"?
23:48:17 <nsh> if i had any faith in humanity, i'd be surprised a tool like that could get so far
23:48:23 * Arnia doesn't agree with Putnam that you must always make objectivist or subjectivist value judgements
23:48:32 <clsn> Not faulty, you are right. But one that is at odds with how other people use the word. Which may or may not make a difference. But has zilch to do with what you believe about beavers.
23:48:58 <Arnia> See, this is my problem with the discussions of the nature of knowledge
23:49:17 <clsn> "how many beliefs?" and "how right are they?" and "wtf do you mean by 'right' anyway?"
23:49:28 <Arnia> They all start by assuming that there is some universal arbiter of truth
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23:50:05 <clsn> I know you, Arnia, are the ultimate relativist, and it's nonsensical to you to speak of anything being "true" or "false" in an absolute sense. :)
23:50:24 <Arnia> The best definition of knowledge I've found is rarely see for the subtlety it has: knowledge is useful belief
23:50:50 <clsn> That works.