00:00:00 <zachb> Ah, Arnia, there you are
00:00:02 <Monty> I'm off for winter
00:00:08 <nsh> Monty, dress warm!
00:00:09 <Monty> ok
00:00:23 <nsh> Monty, bring back some reindeer pls
00:00:23 <Monty> That is interesting. Please continue.
00:00:38 <Arnia> I also believe that the physical world is just one aspect (a projection if you will) of a more complex thing. It looks physical because it has a metric, and physical basically comes down to having a metric
00:00:53 <jsled> Arnia: what do you mean by "any external truth" above?
00:00:58 <nsh> Arnia, i have a vague intuition that the logical notion of identity employed in cognition forces spacio-temporal localisation
00:01:06 <Arnia> jsled: Truth defined independent of observers
00:01:17 <Arnia> nsh: correct
00:01:29 <Arnia> nsh: wow... thought I was the only one who had noticed that :)
00:01:33 * nsh smiles
00:01:55 <Arnia> nsh: remember one of the manuscripts I'm toying with? 'Time, Change and Identity: The Elements of Process'
00:02:14 <Arnia> nsh: you choose any two out of those three and you get the third fixed
00:02:30 <nsh> Arnia, oOo, i do recall now you mention it. you should definitely keep me posted on that one
00:03:39 <Arnia> Will do
00:03:55 * Arnia sometimes wonders whether he is a philosopher or a scientist more :/
00:04:10 <nsh> it's good to work on the interface
00:04:12 <zachb> That and a programmer ;P
00:04:13 <Arnia> zachb: your question?
00:04:21 * Arnia hits zachb for mentioning coding
00:04:22 <nsh> that's where you get to export from one into the other
00:04:25 <Arnia> I AM NOT A CODER
00:04:32 * zachb runs away
00:05:03 * Arnia grumbles to himself
00:05:28 <zachb> anyway
00:05:59 <nsh> Arnia, on that note: this is why i believe that multi-valued logic *as interpreted by relaxation of the laws of noncontradiction and excluded middle* may be fruitful in understanding nonlocal phenomena
00:06:05 <zachb> if you don't kill me... about the assembler. I've been looking at what you gave me, but I don't want to make assemble to x86
00:06:25 <nsh> because this removes the condition of idempotence from the definition of identity
00:07:22 <nsh> liar's paradox, as the degenerate example, the proposition simulteously accepts both XOR neither traditional values
00:07:38 <Arnia> nsh: yes, I'm just sceptical about the family of multi-valued logic you seem interested in. It lacks any nice generality and is hard to link in with other logics. Moreover, only an infinite-valued logic has the space to talk about disagreement without appeal to another logic with at least one more truth value.
00:07:40 *** ja has quit ("test dont test")
00:07:51 <Arnia> zachb: what are you looking for then?
00:07:53 <zachb> OH, I was just about to ask about liar's paradox, and how it would be represented in formal logic
00:08:12 <Arnia> zachb: Gödel's Incompleteness Theorems are the Liar's paradox formalised
00:08:28 <zachb> Hmmm...
00:08:41 <zachb> Ah...
00:08:46 <nsh> Arnia, i agree in the sense that the infinite case (aleph-null allowable values of aleph-one possible values) is required in the limit
00:09:08 <nsh> but we need to start by making nTm (with n and m finite) meaningful first
00:09:22 <nsh> (n allowed values of m possible)
00:09:45 <Arnia> I disagree there. Finite cases rarely extend to infinite ones
00:09:56 <Arnia> The two levels behave very differently
00:10:00 <nsh> sure, it's just pedagogical
00:10:08 <Arnia> But how good is the insight?
00:10:27 <nsh> one can hardly imagine people having being able to formalise infinite arithmetric before understanding well finite
00:10:42 * nsh shrugs, palm upward
00:10:47 <Arnia> It doesn't arise in arithmetic usually
00:11:08 <Arnia> However in lots of common places, the behaviour of the finite and the behaviour of the infinite are very different
00:11:22 * clsn reads the Overcoming Bias article you guys pointed to, off and on.
00:11:26 * nsh nods
00:11:46 <Arnia> If infinite truth values are necessary (and I believe strongly that they are) then I feel that the finite case loses the appeal, even for pedagogical reasons
00:11:50 <clsn> sheez. Spending a lot of time blowing smoke and pretending that it even makes sense to talk about some "absolute" morality.
00:12:16 <nsh> Arnia, i'm totally sympathetic to that view
00:12:26 <Arnia> Also, we already have more tools for the infinite cases than we do for the finite
00:12:30 <clsn> Yeah, the infinite case is often fundamentally different from the approaching finite cases.
00:12:34 <nsh> how do you mean, exactly?
00:12:42 <clsn> (well, not approaching of course)
00:13:00 <Arnia> why do you think I spend all my spare time in category theory atm? The tools are ready and waiting there
00:13:06 * nsh smiles
00:13:29 <Arnia> not finished, that would be boring, but finite cases tend to become quite tedious
00:13:48 * nsh nods
00:13:57 <Arnia> You spend most of your time dealing with exceptions, which can be interesting in their own right but which distract from what you're trying to do.
00:14:38 <Arnia> (witness finite groups and finite fields; fascinating fields — hah — of study, but if what you want is to deal with the infinite they aren't going to help you understand it much)
00:14:58 * nsh nods
00:15:15 <nsh> there's certainly a qualitative difference, one can't extend the former to the latter
00:16:21 <nsh> particularly mereologically: correspondence of a part to whole
00:16:30 <nsh> that's completely novel in the infinite cases
00:17:07 <Arnia> Study what you want of course, but I'm remaining more interested in infinite systems :)
00:17:18 * nsh smiles
00:17:28 <Arnia> And I can explain them pedagogically quite well, even to laypeople
00:17:40 <nsh> always useful
00:18:04 <Arnia> Yeah... they do look at me as if I'm insane for attempting to think about things like this
00:18:29 <Arnia> I'm building an embodied relativist army with a wing of evidential logicians
00:19:45 <nsh> :-)
00:20:04 * nsh runs out of steam, goes oneiric
00:21:13 <Arnia> jsled: do you see where I'm coming from?
00:21:39 <jsled> Arnia: sorry, not paying attention.
00:22:38 *** ja (n=c@c-98-216-15-55.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #swhack
00:22:46 <Arnia> oh, sorry. Thought you were :)
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00:44:16 <zachb> Arnia: I wanted to design a fairly simple language and assemble/compile it
00:53:30 <jsled> zachb: in haskell specifically?
00:54:00 <jsled> http://halogen.note.amherst.edu/~jdtang/scheme_in_48/tutorial/stdlib.html
00:54:28 <jsled> of course, I think you said you found similar things before, and that's not what you're after.
00:54:53 <jsled> i.e., not an interpreter.
00:54:56 *** ja is now known as toq
00:54:56 <jsled> ?
00:58:27 <zachb> yeah, not an interpreter
00:58:47 <zachb> And an arbitrary "to" language, not just x86
01:04:00 <zachb> (of which I have a pretty good command of)
01:04:51 * kpreid arrives, catches up on scrollback...
01:06:26 <kpreid> [19:41] <Arnia> 'Ah, but I'm right because I'm a rationalist!'
01:08:54 <kpreid> I like http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/01/newcombs-proble.html as a (sort of) definition of rationality
01:10:09 <kpreid> The quoted remark gets the causality backwards, from this position. You might be a rationalist if you're right...
01:17:09 <zachb> I'm going to be irrational by taking the $1k box because I have a distain for opaque boxes
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01:32:40 <d8uv> pidgin for irc
01:32:40 <phenny> d8uv: 21 Jul 09:19Z <sbp> tell d8uv http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/20080717/sc_space/howmarsandalaskaarealike
01:32:53 <d8uv> let's see if this sucks or not sucks
01:38:50 <zachb> what, IRC in pidgin?
01:39:40 <d8uv> yes
01:39:56 <zachb> its not too bad
01:40:10 <jsled> d8uv: how about now?
01:40:45 <d8uv> getting less shitty
01:40:50 <jsled> d8uv: want a pm?
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01:50:47 <Monty> yo hhg!
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02:04:24 <d8uv> .gc lol
02:04:24 *** d8uv has parted #swhack ()
02:04:25 <phenny> lol: 40,400,000
02:04:31 *** d8uv (n=d8uv@216-67-4-157-rb2.nwc.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net) has joined #swhack
02:04:41 <d8uv> .gc lol
02:04:41 <phenny> lol: 40,400,000
02:05:00 <toq> .gc lulz
02:05:01 <phenny> lulz: 3,280,000
02:05:22 <toq> .gc rofl
02:05:22 <phenny> rofl: 29,700,000
02:05:28 <toq> .gc wtf
02:05:29 <phenny> wtf: 68,100,000
02:05:32 <toq> .gc heh
02:05:32 <phenny> heh: 2,820,000
02:05:42 <toq> huh
02:05:51 <d8uv> more wtf than lol
02:05:55 <jsled> .gc huh
02:05:56 <phenny> huh: 119,000,000
02:05:59 <toq> Results 1 - 10 of about 53,800,000 for heh
02:06:24 <d8uv> tons of huh?
02:06:31 <toq> 620,000,000 for lol
02:06:33 <toq> the script is fubar
02:06:53 <toq> which locale is it using?
02:06:57 <toq> does that matter?
02:10:00 <kpreid> .gc lolwth
02:10:01 <phenny> lolwth: 569
02:10:02 <kpreid> er
02:10:04 <kpreid> .gc lolwtf
02:10:04 <phenny> lolwtf: 43,700
02:10:06 <kpreid> .tc wtflol
02:10:13 <kpreid> .gc wtflol
02:10:14 <phenny> wtflol: 24,400
02:29:44 <nslater> .gcs lol lool loool looool loooool
02:29:49 <phenny> lol (41,200,000), lool (8,260,000), loool (5,260,000), looool (2,310,000), loooool (1,200,000)
02:30:45 <aspect> someone did a map like that with hm hmm hmmm hmmmm .. a very flash ajaxy table that actually had some interesting, if not particularly useful, content
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02:50:20 <Monty> bah, it's Schroeder again
02:54:22 <deltab> it's Schrodinger again... or is it?
03:01:13 <Morbus> phenny, tell nslater http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/Destructoid/~3/341864959/get-paid-for-creating-littlebigplanet-content-96315.phtml
03:01:13 <phenny> Morbus: I'll pass that on when nslater is around.
03:01:16 <Morbus> phenny, tell jsled http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/Destructoid/~3/341864959/get-paid-for-creating-littlebigplanet-content-96315.phtml
03:01:16 <phenny> Morbus: I'll pass that on when jsled is around.
03:03:51 *** deltab changed the topic to: "Swhack: our heads, projected and reified to be the entire objective universe"
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03:46:58 <jeanniecool> deltab, you have, natch, seen http://icanhascheezburger.com/2008/07/20/funny-pictures-wunderz-how-you-liekz-it/ ?
03:48:43 <deltab> I've just realised that both rich and poor live on estates
03:49:03 <thelsdj> wtf? http://www.pbfcomics.com/?cid=PBF247-Catch_Phrase.jpg
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04:00:47 <jeanniecool> er, what don't you get, thelsdj?
04:11:22 <jsled> thelsdj: I'm wondering – given the large pause in posting since his book and whatnot – if it's a reaction.
04:11:22 <phenny> jsled: 03:01Z <Morbus> tell jsled http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/Destructoid/~3/341864959/get-paid-for-creating-littlebigplanet-content-96315.phtml
04:13:35 <jsled> phenny: tell Morbus, totally! though it's interesting that it's qualified, and apparently¹ won't be quite the case at launch ¹=<http://www.ps3fanboy.com/2008/07/21/scee-littlebigplanet-user-generated-content-free-at-launch/>. But I'm still trying to figure out a scheme for something to create when I get my hands on it. :)
04:13:35 <phenny> jsled: I'll pass that on when Morbus is around.
04:16:20 <thelsdj> jsled: yea, just seems weird
04:16:33 <thelsdj> i don't quite see any funny in it
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06:41:10 <Monty> it's KiYanWang!
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06:41:37 <ja> doesnt sound kosher
06:41:50 * Arnia glares at Monty
06:41:50 <Monty> sure, it's good day i think.
06:41:56 <Arnia> I hope so Monty
06:41:58 <Monty> As of evidential logicians
06:42:04 <Arnia> Like myself?
06:42:11 * Arnia shrugs
06:42:40 <Arnia> Good morning danja, welcome to Monty's Fun House (fortunately without Pat Sharp)
06:42:41 <Monty> BOING
06:47:23 <d8uv> http://www.ncpc.org/cyberbullying
06:49:48 <Arnia> hm. they're using Plone
06:50:42 <ja> and some weird plugin
06:51:08 <d8uv> I know, what a bunch of faggots
06:51:17 <d8uv> I mean, they're clearly stupid and ugly
06:51:29 <ja> cyberbullying-psas-player.swf < using flash is cyberbullying
06:51:45 <d8uv> Ok hold on
06:51:46 *** ja has quit (Remote closed the connection)
06:51:47 <d8uv> Ja
06:52:01 <d8uv> Oh he quit before I can mock him
06:52:03 <d8uv> Shame
06:52:55 <d8uv> (But yeah, The first thing I thought of when I launched that site was, "Hey, they're using plone. That's kinda rad")
06:53:21 * Arnia has mixed feelings about Plone still
06:53:59 <d8uv> It's just a shame that they have such a dumb cause
07:10:57 <Arnia> Just received the final proof of the JLC paper. Have to go through it thoroughly later :/
07:11:04 * Arnia wonders about the time though
07:11:28 <Arnia> Seems a strange time of day to send it through unless Oxford is in a different timezone to Durham :p
07:12:48 <Mike_L> "Whether you’ve been a victim of cyberbullying, know someone who has been cyberbullied, or have even cyberbullied yourself, there are steps you and your friends can take to stop cyberbullying and stay cyber-safe."
07:12:51 *** Poopadoodle has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
07:13:23 * Arnia shoves Mike_L into a cybersafe and scrambles the combination
07:13:50 * Mike_L screams 'Stop cyber-bullying me!' at teh intarwebs
07:14:59 <Mike_L> honestly though, I was cyber-bullied when I was a teenager
07:15:17 <Mike_L> I quit an IRC community for a year because of it
07:17:49 <Arnia> Nuclear Cyber Bullying
07:17:54 * Arnia lobs a nuke at Mike_L
07:19:47 * Mike_L overwrites the nuke's memory space with zeros
07:22:25 * Arnia detaches Mike_L's process and removes it from the scheduler
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07:25:34 <d8uv> Well I'm a cyber bully
07:36:12 * Arnia debullyfies d8uv
07:36:53 <Arnia> I've done something to my left hand. Minor nerve damage to the sensory nerves to my fourth and fifth digits I think
07:37:07 <Arnia> Irritating, but hopefully self-rectifying in the next couple of days
07:37:19 <Arnia> cos it is making it a bit itchy typing
07:37:19 <d8uv> ...
07:37:54 <Arnia> It feels like I lay funny and cut off circulation for a while
07:43:26 <Mike_L> sounds like you need to take a break from typing for a few days
07:43:48 <Mike_L> and cut down on the amount of typing you do
07:44:07 <Mike_L> and change your posture at the computer
07:51:14 <Arnia> I would if I could to any of those
07:51:42 <Arnia> I must type, because if I don't then I won't get my work done. The desk is fixed in place and unadjustable
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08:04:25 <Mike_L> maybe you could get a different chair?
08:04:53 <Mike_L> Arnia: or put your hands in your lap when you're not typing, and take more breaks?
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08:06:34 <Arnia> the chair is unchangeable (I won't get into why) and I cannot afford breaks
08:06:40 <Arnia> this is all very annoying
08:06:57 * Arnia grumbles and wanders off to read for a while
08:09:03 <Mike_L> Arnia: your body is not a machine with parts that can be replaced
08:17:06 <Arnia> I am aware, but I'm operating under greater constraints than my health
08:17:23 <Arnia> Deadlines which can be missed, but only at a severe cost to my academic situation
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09:00:52 <sbp> yo
09:01:05 <d8uv> Yo
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09:01:41 <sbp> 'ello d8uv
09:01:43 <sbp> what haps plz
09:02:39 <d8uv> ja came in and was all "omg what the hell is this flash shit on this website don't they know flash is evil"
09:02:50 <d8uv> then left before I could make fun of him
09:06:32 * Arnia makes d8uv evil-by-proxy officer for swhack
09:07:19 <d8uv> as I type this on a Dell box, running Windows Vista Ultimate
09:07:36 <Arnia> A good choice of candidate then
09:07:59 <Arnia> (he says running an even more closed platform)
09:08:09 <d8uv> Drinking from a freshly chilled goblet of Richard Stallman's tears
09:08:34 <Arnia> I hope it is pasteurised beforehand
09:09:15 *** sbp changed the topic to: "<d8uv> Drinking from a freshly chilled goblet of Richard Stallman's tears"
09:11:22 <d8uv> So what's up?
09:11:39 <d8uv> Aside from academia apparently eating Arnia alive
09:11:58 <sbp> just reading all the boring news
09:13:07 <sbp> d8uv: http://whythatsdelightful.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/rsz-1stare-fotografie-16.jpg
09:14:33 <d8uv> the cousin of http://fukung.net/v/3758/Monsterburger.jpg
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09:18:33 <sbp> [[[
09:18:34 <sbp> PINELLAS PARK -- Residents in a Pinellas County subdivision found about 30 catfish walking around their neighborhood on Tuesday.
09:18:34 <sbp> The walking catfish uses its pectoral fin to shuffle up the street and can breathe out of water as long as it stays moist.
09:18:40 <sbp> ]]] - http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Local/2008/7/16/walking_catfish_startle_residents.html
09:19:15 <d8uv> God that'd be like a baby zombie infestation
09:19:50 <sbp> [[[
09:19:51 <sbp> Calvin Morett had pleaded guilty to disorderly conduct for dressing in a 6-foot penis costume at the graduation at the Saratoga Performing Arts Center.
09:19:57 <sbp> ]]] - http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/bizarre&id=6270421
09:20:04 <sbp> sounds like second life basically
09:21:04 <d8uv> What color was the 6 foot penis? Was it black?
09:21:07 <sbp> unsure
09:21:17 <d8uv> Cause there's nothing out of the ordinary if it is
09:21:45 <d8uv> And why did he get slapped with the fine?
09:22:01 <d8uv> I mean, was he an audience member?
09:22:32 <d8uv> Did the chick behind him complain to the cops out of spite over not being able to see through the phallus?
09:25:55 <d8uv> Though I have to say, if the size of the donger was proportional, I wouldn't complain. I mean, he was probably standing in line, and his balls would be padded enough to make an impromptu pillow
09:30:12 <d8uv> Further more, how tall is Calvin anyway?
09:30:22 <sbp> less than 6ft I would guess
09:30:27 <sbp> or perhaps 6ft exactly
09:30:47 <d8uv> I'd go more than 6 feet
09:31:06 <d8uv> Cause otherwise you'd be stepping on your balls a lot
09:31:23 <sbp> but that means his head would be coming out of the end
09:31:50 <sbp> and since men don't generally have human heads popping out the end of their penises, that would be rather unrealistic
09:31:51 <d8uv> You... haven't seen a penis costume before?
09:32:11 <sbp> don't think so actually, no. I would expect them to be more or less realistic though
09:32:29 <d8uv> He'd be wearing the head of the penis on his... er, head.
09:32:51 <d8uv> Like a veil. Only pink, opaque, and possible veiny.
09:34:58 <d8uv> Like http://assets.spirithalloween.com/images/spirit/products/processed/00629295.zoom.a.jpg or maybe, (though probably not), like http://blog.wired.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/06/22/1120885273668.jpg
09:36:27 <sbp> d8uv: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/Yupik_shaman_Nushagak.jpg
09:36:45 <sbp> so in that case, he can't be more than 6ft
09:36:58 <sbp> unless they're not including the veil/head as part of the costume
09:40:15 <d8uv> bet the mainstream media LIED to us like they ALWAYS do
09:42:32 <sbp> yeah...
09:44:22 <sbp> http://i.somethingawful.com/inserts/articlepics/photoshop/07-18-08-giants/Scienide1.jpg
09:54:11 <sbp> .dict corybantic
09:54:12 <phenny> corybantic - 1. priest of Cybele
09:54:16 <sbp> .ety corybantic
09:54:17 <phenny> Can't find the etymology for "corybantic". Try http://etymonline.com/?search=corybantic
09:54:20 <sbp> .ety corybant
09:54:21 <phenny> Can't find the etymology for "corybant". Try http://etymonline.com/?search=corybant
09:54:23 <sbp> nu?
09:54:26 <sbp> .wik Corybantic
09:54:28 <phenny> "Stolen & Contaminated Songs was the first of two albums in the year 1992, that was recorded and produced by the band Coil." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_&_Contaminated_Songs
09:54:44 <sbp> .wik Corybantes
09:54:44 <phenny> "The Korybantes (Ancient Greek: Κορύβαντες) were the crested dancers who worshiped the Phrygian goddess Cybele with drumming and dancing." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corybantes
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10:49:33 <d8uv> There's like, some kind of conspiracy about Redmond
10:50:32 <sbp> what, are some crazy people saying it exists?
10:51:01 <d8uv> Nintendo of America, DigiPen, Microsoft, and Eddie Bauer all live within walking distance of each other
10:51:18 <sbp> it's the new silicon valley
10:51:24 <sbp> only it's made of hafnium
10:51:33 <d8uv> Seriously it's like one mile exactly from NOA's headquarters, to One Microsoft Way
10:51:54 <d8uv> And what the hell is Eddie Bauer doing in there?
11:08:59 <d8uv> Also cool is going to Google Earth and using the street view to look at your house
11:09:36 <sbp> heh, yeah. beats walking outside
11:09:42 <sbp> unless you put like a new window box up
11:09:45 <sbp> and you're wondering how it looks
11:09:51 <sbp> because it takes their images years to update
11:10:04 <sbp> they should have live feeds of the whole world
11:10:12 <sbp> or at least the train and bus rootes
11:10:22 <sbp> (this is to prevent you saying "raut")
11:10:40 <d8uv> btw sbp do you have skype or googletalk or something?
11:11:02 <sbp> yes but I am not using it
11:11:21 <d8uv> should you?
11:11:25 <d8uv> use it I mean
11:11:28 <sbp> should not I no
11:11:43 * Arnia negates sbp
11:11:53 <sbp> nough!
11:12:11 <sbp> all your negation are belong to Negatory Bill
11:12:14 * Arnia takes sbp's pseudocompliment w.r.t. d8uv instead
11:12:19 <sbp> cool
11:12:24 <Arnia> sbp: What does William have to say?
11:12:34 <d8uv> o/~ I wanna be negated...
11:12:41 <Arnia> Nothing positive I guess
11:13:23 <sbp> nope
11:13:47 <sbp> sunshine!
11:13:50 <sbp> mooonlight
11:13:54 <sbp> good times (good times!)
11:13:56 <sbp> Negatory Bill
11:14:20 <nsh> that's pretty hard to scan
11:15:03 <sbp> Michael Jackson *achieves* it
11:15:06 <sbp> (happened.)
11:15:39 <nsh> schrweet
11:16:14 * nsh has one slice of hawa'aian teh pozza left, if anyschmo wants
11:19:13 <sbp> Amazon is funny
11:19:19 <sbp> "Price: $2,390.00 & this item ships for FREE with Super Saver Shipping."
11:21:41 <nsh> NWAI
11:22:06 <d8uv> .weather NWAI
11:22:06 <phenny> NWAI: no such ICAO code, or no NOAA data
11:35:40 <Morbus> jsled: yeah, nslater is interested to. we should work on something together :)
11:35:40 <phenny> Morbus: 04:13Z <jsled> tell Morbus totally! though it's interesting that it's qualified, and apparently¹ won't be quite the case at launch ¹=<http://www.ps3fanboy.com/2008/07/21/scee-littlebigplanet-user-generated-content-free-at-launch/>. But I'm still trying to figure out a scheme for something to create when I get my hands on it. :)
11:40:51 <Morbus> .c 58538/2192490 * 100
11:40:52 <phenny> (58 538 / 2 192 490) * 100 = 2.66993236
11:45:07 *** danja_ (n=danny@host192-24-dynamic.9-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #swhack
11:54:28 <nslater> heh heh, on http://swag.webns.net/ the link for the "URI Persistence Policy" in the first para is a 404, tsk tsk, sbp shirkin' on his URI responsibilities
11:55:05 <sbp> me?
11:55:11 <sbp> whose name is at the bottom of that page?
11:55:20 <sbp> and whose name is at the bottom of the URI Persistence Policy page?
11:55:40 <nslater> hmm, well, the first one is aaron, the second one, how would I know! :p
11:55:46 <nslater> I thought this was your project too
11:55:54 <sbp> check the error message of the second
11:56:06 <nslater> oh yeah
11:56:22 <sbp> it's not Aaron's fault either
11:56:28 <sbp> his hard drive ground itself into dust
11:56:35 <nslater> oh jeez, I was only playin
11:56:41 *** MorbusIff (n=morbus@c-24-34-49-171.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #swhack
11:56:43 <sbp> you could literally see through the disc when they took it apart
11:56:46 <sbp> it had worn so thin
11:56:57 *** Morbus has quit (Nick collision from services.)
11:57:00 <sbp> you have opened an old tragedy!
11:57:05 <sbp> and now you must observe it, front row
11:57:11 <nslater> I found it from here:
11:57:11 <nslater> http://markmail.org/message/bxvdritr6wr5vder#query:+page:1+mid:ltcv353gjbl7jpi7+state:results
11:57:23 <nslater> funny to see your signing off with n3
11:57:26 <nslater> *you
11:57:55 <nslater> ... I also found some logs from 2001!
11:57:59 *** MorbusIff is now known as Morbus
11:58:14 <nslater> erm
11:58:26 <nslater> they are complete gibberish
11:58:30 <sbp> yeah, I had an n3 signature for years
11:58:50 <nslater> oh, just the first one
12:00:06 <clsn> Maybe it's a sign of severe geekiness: for some reason whenever I see Obama's logo I keep thinking "Ooh, they better have an SVG version of that, so it'll scale..." Why just that logo I don't know.
12:00:25 <sbp> clsn: got uri pls?
12:00:48 <clsn> Sry, it's so ubiquitous here. Sec.
12:01:53 <Arnia> clsn: at least you don't think (as I often do) in terms of category theoretic diagrams
12:02:04 <Arnia> That's a definite sign of over-emersion
12:02:06 *** danja has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
12:02:10 <clsn> Google image search for "obama logo" seems to turn up sites that let you create your own personlized version...
12:02:20 <Arnia> Personalised?
12:02:42 <clsn> http://www.sff.net/people/raymund/ for a simple picture.
12:02:55 <clsn> Lemme find a url, looks like people are puttiung stuff in the center.
12:03:51 <Arnia> Semioticists puzzle me sometimes
12:03:54 <clsn> http://logobama.com/
12:04:54 <clsn> http://www.flickr.com/photos/logobama/
12:06:12 <Arnia> It is an interesting logo
12:06:28 <Arnia> Unfortunately not one I have time to study
12:06:40 <Arnia> and I'm typing very aggressively today for some reason
12:07:10 <clsn> *shrug* it's pretty enough, and simple and iconic. Just keep thinking "oooh, SVG could really do that right."
12:07:58 * Arnia thinks that Inkscape is one of the few decent pieces of end-user open source software atm
12:08:14 * clsn ponders the modified logos. Hmm. A properly-framed tit, with the right color-scheme...
12:08:35 * Arnia regrets that it is so tightly bound to GTkmm atm
12:08:48 <clsn> Yeah, I'm only belatedly realizing how important it is to have scalable images. Then again, it and SVG haven't been around that long.
12:10:57 <Arnia> True. I actually feel more comfortable in Inkscape than in Illustrator. The only things in Illustrator which are truly better are pathfinders (which are like dynamic boolean path operators), colour management (including the colour scheme maker), layer blend modes (SVG's four modes are very poor) and 3D support
12:11:16 <clsn> I shudder to imagine what the image in http://www.flickr.com/photos/logobama/2684332080/ is a logo for.
12:11:44 <Arnia> Of course, because X11 on Leopard doesn't support XInput properly, neither does Inkscape which is a pain for me (I miss my graphics tablet's pressure support) but not a crippling pain
12:12:12 <clsn> I'm a power-user geek, I like things that give you far too much power and are impossibly complicated to use; I eat those up. So I have a different set of criteria.
12:12:29 <Arnia> and Inkscape's object system and tool set is much more friendly for getting design work done
12:13:14 <Arnia> The way that any shape in Illustrator is immediately rendered into a path which can only be edited using the path tools... very inconvenient. You can't adjust a rounded rectangle or a polygon for example
12:13:32 <clsn> Inkscape you get to say WHEN you want it turned into a path.
12:13:38 <clsn> Sometimes you *do* want that.
12:13:51 <Arnia> Also, Illustrator has a horrible horrible lack of support for transparency and gradient effects
12:13:57 <Arnia> clsn: yes, I think I just said that
12:14:06 <Arnia> You usually want that decision actually
12:14:24 * Arnia usually has to delete rounded rectangles several times until he gets them right
12:14:27 <clsn> Yeah, I was agreeing with you
12:14:42 <Arnia> very time consuming and unnecessary
12:15:12 <Arnia> It is the gradients though which are the killer. It is amazingly complicated to get a gradient with an alpha component
12:15:18 <Arnia> (in Illustrator)
12:15:45 <clsn> Bleah...
12:16:12 <clsn> Yeah, these things can be a pain. Inkscape's gradient stuff isn't bad--provided you can work out what you want the gradient to do...
12:16:36 <clsn> (95% of the time the tough part of the problem is deciding what exactly it is you want to do. Once you know that, the rest is easy)
12:17:03 <Arnia> Yeah, better mesh support on the canvas would be nice
12:17:09 <Arnia> Save having to do manual interpolation
12:17:21 <Arnia> (or using a rather hacky feeling external tool)
12:18:15 <Arnia> Actually, that's one of my big wants for Inkscape: the ability to write new live shape-like tools with canvas and toolbar controls
12:18:26 <Arnia> Just using Python or Perl or similar
12:19:12 <clsn> Mm, that could be cool. A Perl API or something.
12:19:30 <Arnia> well their current API just uses streams of SVG elements
12:19:58 <Arnia> I'd like to keep that property because it makes it easy to write scripts in odd languages like Haskell and Prolog
12:20:12 <Arnia> (which are sometimes better suited to the task at hand)
12:20:41 <clsn> Yeah, I'm used to working in SVG elements from the Blazonry work.
12:20:55 <Arnia> I think there is a definite need though for such an extension mechanism
12:22:12 <Arnia> Another thing I'd love to see would be a way of making 'smart filters' (as well as possible extension beyond the pure SVG elementary filters). That is, filters which expose their internal parameters allowing them to be reused with different settings perhaps in different documents
12:23:35 <clsn> Filters are still a little too baroque and ill-supported for popularity.
12:24:18 <Arnia> I can see this being used to, for example, allow a drop shadow composite filter to place handles on the canvas for manipulating the offset and blur
12:24:54 <clsn> oic... yeah.
12:26:43 <MoiraA> hello
12:26:58 <MoiraA> wish me luck this afternoon, I have my return to work interiew
12:28:47 <clsn> Good luck!
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12:29:20 <Arnia> MoiraA: Yeah, good luck :)
12:29:40 *** MacTed has quit ()
12:34:04 *** jsled changed the topic to: "<d8uv> Drinking from a freshly chilled goblet of Richard Stallman's tears || Please, don't cyberbully yourself."
12:34:47 *** Enki-][ (n=weechat@c-71-234-190-248.hsd1.ct.comcast.net) has joined #swhack
12:34:47 <Monty> hey Enki-][
12:39:18 <Arnia> Oh me oh my
12:39:20 <Arnia> .title https://blueprints.launchpad.net/inkscape/+spec/darker-ui
12:39:22 <phenny> Arnia: Blueprint: ânew UI to Inkscape look as charming as Blender and Gimp (gimp on linux)â
12:40:33 *** danja (n=danny@host216-203-dynamic.23-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #swhack
12:41:53 <jsled> "as charming as Blender". That's a larf.
12:42:04 <Arnia> I find the sentiment amusing, 'everyone loves dark UIs! They're charming!'. Yes, maybe to those who wear lots of pale makeup, look consumptive in general and call each other things like 'Lucretia'
12:42:26 <Arnia> What *would* be good would be a sort of controlled MDI
12:42:36 *** leobard (n=Miranda@dfki-046.dfki.uni-kl.de) has joined #swhack
12:42:41 <jsled> tabs! :)
12:42:43 <Arnia> Or at least a way to temporarily blank the desktop and all other windows
12:43:12 <Arnia> jsled: you still need side-by-side editing. But I don't like having other stuff leaking through when I'm working
12:43:33 * Arnia half-heartedly thinks about a Cocoa UI around the rest of Inkscape
12:43:34 <jsled> (sorry; "tabs" was a bad joke re: recent Gnome discussions)
12:43:50 <Arnia> jsled: oh dear. What's been happening re: GNOME?
12:44:14 <jsled> I can understand the appeal of a dark interface; my emacs background-color has been black for years, and I wouldn't have it any other way.
12:44:51 <jsled> But Blender's UI – while I understand it's powerful when one becomes accustomed to it – is hard to call "charming".
12:45:07 <Arnia> Dark UIs generally make me feel thoroughly depressed
12:45:24 <Arnia> So I find them charmless from the start
12:46:01 <jsled> Arnia: Oh, there was a inside joke about adding tabs to every application at recent GUADEC, but some people didn't take it as a joke. Otherwise, there's this big tension about gnome future: should there be a big gnome 3.0, and – basically – should there be GTK/GNOME API/ABI breakage or not.
12:46:48 <Arnia> jsled: if there is a break, I'd seriously suggest adopting OpenSTEP and throwing weight behind that
12:47:12 <Arnia> Or, something more data-flow oriented (depends on how long the 3 branch is expected to continue)
12:47:34 <jsled> why would that work out better than the GnuStep efforts?
12:48:37 <Arnia> (the main pragmatic reason for a data-flow oriented system is that they work better with multi-core, parallel and distributed systems. However they're also easier to compose; see Conal's talk on Tangible Values for an explanation)
12:48:52 <Arnia> jsled: I was actually thinking of joining with GNUStep.
12:49:28 <Arnia> jsled: Of all the OO APIs, OpenSTEP is the only one which is both theoretically elegant and practically useful
12:49:36 <jsled> loggy, pointer?
12:49:36 <loggy> http://swhack.com/logs/2008-07-22#T12-49-36
12:50:29 <clsn> Blender's UI is potent... but not charming.
12:51:06 <Arnia> jsled: I can't recommend Cocoa highly enough as an example of good design implemented well. There are bugs, and odd issues, of course but it is so much nicer than GTk's convoluted idea of what OO is, or Qt's strange fascination with preprocessing and weddedness to C++ (which has a particularly noxious OO model)
12:52:37 <jsled> GTK's idea isn't convoluted, really ... just the expression thereof.
12:52:53 <Arnia> The adoption of OpenSTEP is likely to have other synergistic effects as well. For a start, it will make it easier to port apps natively between OS X and GNOME. Most importantly however, are platforms like SproutCore which are essentially Cocoa for the Web
12:53:44 <Arnia> jsled: it is convoluted by my mind. When it comes to class-based OO, the Smalltalk model is the nicest as far as I'm concerned
12:53:58 <Arnia> You just worry about messages, not where the messages are coming from or going to
12:54:19 <nsh> sbp, gift fur ew: ??l??? ???? ??l??? ??i??? ??(? _?_?_?_p_?_? _?_?p_?_?_?_?_p _?_?_?_??_ _?_?_?_?_?_?_p_?_?_?_?_pp_?_? _?_?_?_?_?_?_p_?_?_?_?_p _?_?_?_?_?_?_p_?_?_?_? _) ??l?? ????? ??l??? ??i??? ??l??
12:54:22 <Arnia> The runtime routes them appropriately (perhaps across several different systems, if necessary)
12:54:31 <nsh> bah, stupid m0rk
12:54:41 *** mmmmmrob_ (n=mmmmmrob@62.172.77.66) has joined #swhack
12:54:41 *** nsh changed the topic to: "<d8uv> Drinking from a freshly chilled goblet of Richard Stallman's tears || Please, don't cyberbully yourself. ¦¦ ??l??? ???? ??l??? ??i??? ??(? _?_?_?_p_?_? _?_?p_?_?_?_?_p _?_?_?_??_ _?_?_?_?_?_?_p_?_?_?_?_pp_?_? _?_?_?_?_?_?_p_?_?_?_?_p _?_?_?_?_?_?_p_?_?_?_? _) ??l?? ????? ??l??? ??i??? ??l??"
12:54:58 *** nsh changed the topic to: "<d8uv> Drinking from a freshly chilled goblet of Richard Stallman's tears || Please, don't cyberbully yourself."
12:55:04 * nsh gives up: http://www.reddit.com/info/6su75/comments/
12:55:19 <nsh> phenny, tell sbp http://www.reddit.com/info/6su75/comments/ for teh uncode pen0r turgidity
12:55:20 <phenny> nsh: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
12:55:40 <nslater> woah, tits
12:56:35 <nslater> __̴ı̴̴̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡*̡̡ ̴̡ı̴̴̡ ̡̡͡|̲̲̲͡͡͡ ̲▫̲͡ ̲̲̲͡͡π̲̲͡͡ ̲̲͡▫̲̲͡͡ ̲|̡̡̡ ̡ ̴̡ı.
12:56:52 <nslater> ( )
12:56:52 <nslater> '<><>'
12:56:52 <nslater> ( /, )
12:56:52 <nslater> {<>}
12:56:53 <nslater> \/
12:57:17 * Arnia looks happy that he doesn't use a monospace font for IRC
12:57:23 <Arnia> limits the damage of ASCII art
12:57:37 <Arnia> (or in this case what seems to be Unicode art)
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12:58:08 <Arnia> jsled: have you written code using Cocoa?
12:58:12 <jsled> no.
12:58:43 <Arnia> I suggest you read up on Core Data and Cocoa Bindings. Very instructive.
12:59:21 <Arnia> (Cocoa Bindings in particular is a piece of genius that uses some very clever and lightweight techniques made possible by the Smalltalk OO model)
12:59:37 <nsh> Arnia, they are monospace, just overloaded with diacritics, iiuc
12:59:54 <Arnia> nsh: was talking about nslater
13:00:09 <nslater> nurface
13:00:25 * nsh was referring to nslater's fist line (the housey-type thing)
13:00:46 <Arnia> jsled: there is a lot of great value in OpenSTEP even if it weren't to be adopted and efforts brought to bear. I suspect though that NIH will dominate :/
13:01:00 <Arnia> nslater: ah, I was thinking of the subsequent
13:01:08 * nsh nods
13:01:10 <jsled> Well, OS X is no longer OpenSTEP compliant. So maybe good is better than.
13:01:23 <nslater> Arnia: did you get my comments yesterday?
13:01:53 <jsled> Arnia: you've mentioned Core Data and Cocoa Bindings before, and it's on my to-grok list, yes.
13:01:59 <Arnia> jsled: Cocoa follows the majority of OpenSTEP with extensions into its own APIs of the same style
13:02:20 <Arnia> jsled: many of those APIs (like the wonderful Core Data) are already being reimplemented by GNUStep
13:02:23 <jsled> I think GNOME should do less to do more. Keep un-fucking their core utility APIs and stop doing damn apps.
13:02:38 <jsled> gnome-print: useful. GTK: useful. dbus: useful.
13:02:55 <Arnia> How parallel is GTk?
13:03:13 <Arnia> How fast do you think multi-core apps will spread?
13:03:16 * nsh wants a transcranial magnetic stimulation gun
13:03:17 <jsled> Tomboy: dumb. GEdit: dumb.
13:03:44 <jsled> Arnia: GTK is hardly threadsafe, let alone parallel.
13:04:21 <jsled> But, for many desktop apps, there's very limited areas where parallelism can be exploited, so that's probably fine.
13:04:22 <Arnia> Remember, you'll be competing against platforms which have embraced multicore rather licentiously (witness NSOperation, Core Animation and Grand Central on OS X, the interest in NESL and DPH, etc.)
13:04:39 <Arnia> jsled: I'm dubious on that impression btw
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13:05:08 <Arnia> Automatic parallelism on the structure of the data seems to be the future, rather than manual thread management
13:05:19 <Arnia> nslater: no
13:05:31 <jsled> Which I'd agree with, but isn't what I was implying. :)\
13:05:36 <Arnia> nsh: I have a friend who does TMS for his PhD
13:05:53 <Arnia> jsled: I know what you were implying but I think you're mistaken.
13:05:58 <nslater> Arnia: oh, they were in #tumbolia
13:06:12 <nsh> Arnia, that seems a bit of a extreme way to overclock your studies.. ;-)
13:06:22 <Arnia> jsled: traditional desktop apps are not going to stick around forever, and more high-throughput apps are rising in prominence
13:06:45 <Arnia> nslater: plz prvmsg cmts tx
13:06:50 <nslater> k
13:07:17 <jsled> Traditional desktop apps will roughly stick around as they are. And most of them are waiting on user input, network or disk … not doing raw background processing.
13:07:32 <Arnia> jsled: yes, they're IO bound. That's the problem
13:07:46 <jsled> And mostly, they're waiting on user input.
13:07:49 <Arnia> jsled: they're also structured arsebackwards
13:08:00 <Arnia> and it pisses me off :/
13:10:10 <jsled> One thing the GTK people *do* need to do is move (compatibly) toward something that's OpenGL or PDF-based and has higher-level "scene" and animation primitives.
13:10:31 <jsled> "Clutter" keeps getting mentioned along those lines.
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13:27:29 <sbp> .gc "stovepipe bat"
13:27:30 <phenny> sbp: 12:55Z <nsh> tell sbp http://www.reddit.com/info/6su75/comments/ for teh uncode pen0r turgidity
13:27:30 <phenny> "stovepipe bat": 6
13:29:05 <nsh> *unicode
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13:58:59 * danja impulse-bought a CD yesterday called MilanoCocktail
13:59:10 <danja> now regretting severely
13:59:15 <Arnia> Oh?
13:59:31 <danja> truly awful cocktail lounge music
13:59:56 <danja> vaguely latino
14:00:24 <danja> now let's see what "Super Italianissima" is like
14:01:24 <Arnia> <-- breath is bated
14:01:44 <clsn> (does that mean you've been eating anchovies? Or would that be "baited" breath?)
14:01:56 <danja> heh, picture of spag bol on CD itself
14:02:04 <Arnia> ...
14:02:15 <Arnia> that bad?
14:04:25 *** Schroeder (i=1000@unaffiliated/unclejimbob) has joined #swhack
14:04:42 <nslater> danja: sounds cool
14:05:28 <danja> oh heck, come back Chris de Burgh, all is forgiven
14:06:36 <Arnia> ?!?!?!
14:06:39 * Arnia explodes
14:07:04 <Arnia> danja: you cannot possibly mean that
14:07:04 *** mahound has quit (Connection timed out)
14:11:01 <danja> now "100% Latino Vol.2"
14:11:04 * cre8radix gathers all pieces of arnia and makes a collage
14:11:22 <Arnia> As long as not a college
14:11:26 * Arnia clings to Cuth's
14:11:43 <cre8radix> .dict collage
14:11:43 <phenny> collage - 1. picture with pieces stuck on surface, 2. art of making collages
14:11:49 <cre8radix> hrhr
14:12:05 <Arnia> .dict college
14:12:06 <phenny> college - 1. institution of higher learning, 2. university school or division
14:12:13 *** danja__ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
14:12:17 <Arnia> .wik college durham
14:12:22 <phenny> "Collingwood College is a college of Durham University in the United Kingdom." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collingwood_College,_Durham
14:12:25 <Arnia> ...
14:12:31 * Arnia hits Collingwood
14:12:42 <Arnia> Damn hoteliers
14:12:59 <danja> "100% Latino Vol.2" may be useful for getting rid of unwanted visitors
14:13:10 <Arnia> Try playing all three at once?
14:13:16 <danja> mmm
14:13:33 <Arnia> where did you buy them from?
14:13:33 <danja> my brother's xmas present sorted anyhow
14:13:42 <Arnia> cruel
14:13:49 <danja> on the counter at a cafe
14:13:54 * Arnia needs to find a present for his brother's new house
14:14:03 <Arnia> perhaps something for his kitten
14:14:27 <Arnia> Ginger tabby striped with orange eyes, so they've named him Cinnamon
14:15:09 <nsh> get him a cinnamon's stick cat-toy to play with
14:15:16 <nsh> one of those claw things or something
14:15:20 * nsh doesn't get on with cats
14:15:23 <danja> a hamster?
14:15:59 <Arnia> Kitten + hamster = lunch
14:16:02 * danja now playing The Stooges to recover sanity
14:16:52 <clsn> .dict monetize
14:16:52 <phenny> monetize - 1. make something legal tender, 2. coin metal
14:18:00 * Arnia declares clsn to be a unit of currency
14:18:11 <clsn> Great, now I can be devalued.
14:18:23 * Arnia pegs clsn to the swhack standard
14:18:32 <clsn> Even worse.
14:18:37 <clsn> Or could I be floating?
14:18:39 <jsled> 1 oz of gilded penis
14:18:50 <Arnia> nu
14:19:15 <clsn> I wonder where you can get the latest quotes on gilded penis futures.
14:19:36 *** mahound (n=mahound@unaffiliated/mahound) has joined #swhack
14:20:03 <nslater> mahound: : : : ( ( (
14:22:21 <danja> .g gilded penis
14:22:23 <phenny> danja: http://www.straight.com/article-106623/even-jesus-is-hot-in-erotic-artsy-copenhagen
14:22:32 <danja> hehe
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14:34:58 <danja> wow, the original version of "No Fun" is wonderfully crunchy
14:37:16 <nsh> phenny, en fi "actually"?
14:37:17 <phenny> nsh: "tosi asiassa" (en to fi, translate.google.com)
14:37:28 <nsh> phenny, en fi "properly"?
14:37:29 <phenny> nsh: "kunnolla" (en to fi, translate.google.com)
14:39:01 <nsh> phenny, en fi "genuinely"?
14:39:02 <phenny> nsh: "aidosti" (en to fi, translate.google.com)
14:39:34 <nsh> damnit, what's the word..
14:39:58 <nsh> when you were doing something but not technically doing it, then you start doing it _______ly?
14:40:12 <nsh> phenny, en fi "officially"?
14:40:12 <phenny> nsh: "virallisesti" (en to fi, translate.google.com)
14:40:19 <nsh> that's it
14:40:47 <nsh> phenny, en fi "september"?
14:40:47 <phenny> nsh: "syyskuu" (en to fi, translate.google.com)
14:41:43 <clsn> I've been obsessing slightly over the Värtinää song Matalii ja Mustii (in Finnish). Boy can those girls sing fast.
14:42:22 <nsh> yeah
14:42:57 <nsh> at a guess, i'd say finnish preschoolers average about 2.5 times the syllable count per utterance than english
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14:43:08 <nsh> all finnish kids sound too clever
14:43:12 <nsh> it's a little unsettling
14:43:13 <clsn> Wait, "aidosti"? I hadn't seen d in Finnish, I was starting to think they didn't do voiced stops.
14:43:31 <nsh> it's an inflectional consonant change
14:43:40 <clsn> A lot of foreign-language kids seem to be speaking at unreal rates. Not sure how much of it is actually true.
14:43:54 * nsh nods
14:44:17 <clsn> There is certainly the problem of Indian English-speakers talking too fast. The T.A. program back in grad school mentioned that as something that frequently needs addressing.
14:44:54 <nsh> spanish always sound particularly rapid, especially new world, but i think that's mostly to do with the phoentic patterns
14:45:01 <clsn> I also tend to talk too fast, but I'm from the New York area and I talk fast when I get excited. My kids can become nearly incomprehensible when they're really moving.
14:45:02 <nsh> there's a lot of short syllables
14:45:08 * nsh smiles
14:45:31 <nsh> i talk incredibly fast when i have something intelligent to say
14:45:37 <nsh> which luckily is rare
14:45:49 <clsn> And with their ADHD that isn't too rare... :) My daughter's always bouncing off the walls by eveningtime, and speaking a mile a minute.
14:45:55 <nsh> (not self-effacing, i have few people to communicate nontrivial ideas to in berkspace)
14:46:07 * nsh doesn't envy you
14:46:18 <clsn> My son talks fast, but also has some other speech issues. Not a stutter but... sort of a stutte.
14:46:23 <nsh> hmm
14:46:24 <nsh> .wik stutte
14:46:27 <phenny> "1342-1347 – Dettloff von der Osten" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Administrations_of_Danzig_before_April_1945
14:46:36 <clsn> Yeah, I know; when I can get properly stimulated in meatspace I really get talking.
14:46:42 <clsn> I meant stutter, I mistyped.
14:46:59 <clsn> We call it a "stammer", which isn't a technical term, but we mean something different by it.
14:47:05 <clsn> It's not a usual stutter.
14:47:09 <nsh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consonant_gradation
14:47:19 <nsh> ( 't' becomes 'd' in certain instances )
14:47:24 <clsn> More like he has trouble working out what he's saying.
14:47:31 <nsh> right
14:47:33 <jeanniecool> b/c it's more phrases?
14:47:35 <clsn> Yeah, consonants do that, it's a phonology thing.
14:47:38 * nsh nods
14:47:41 <clsn> jeanniecool: yeah, more phrase-oriented.
14:47:56 <jeanniecool> "I want I want I want to tell you I want to tell you to tell you that the blue legos are mine."
14:47:57 <clsn> Also volume issues; talks too quietly sometime.
14:48:12 <nsh> although, (i was thinking about this a while back), you can almost trace an evolution in phonetic sophistication in written linguistic history
14:48:23 <nsh> for example, my -> mine before vowels is now depreciated
14:48:30 <clsn> Yes... we've done some speech therapy with him from time to time, with modest success.
14:48:31 <nsh> which is analogous to a -> an
14:48:38 <clsn> Oh sure...
14:48:39 * jeanniecool knows a now-3-yr-old who does that
14:48:43 <nsh> people now say "my eyes" without problems
14:48:48 <clsn> jeanniecool: Yeah, but my son is 12.
14:48:56 <nsh> where before it was difficult enough to warrant the "mine"
14:49:08 <jeanniecool> what are the exercises that help?
14:49:15 <nsh> "a apple" is still to difficult
14:49:16 <jeanniecool> A stop/breathe/think step?
14:49:17 <nsh> *too
14:49:19 <clsn> Even "my own", which might have gotten away with staying "mine own" as a fossilized phrase.
14:49:25 * nsh nods
14:49:38 <nsh> i have to check myself from writing it when i'm in stuffy-mode
14:49:56 <clsn> Practicing reading slowly out loud... my wife thinks that talking to me in the car on the way to/from the therapist was a big part of the help actually.
14:50:06 <jeanniecool> Cool.
14:50:16 <nsh> i think an important aspect is learning the inner rhythms of speech
14:50:20 <Jibbler> ah hospital
14:50:28 <nsh> so perhaps listening to famous orators and imitating them might help
14:50:32 <clsn> "my" instead of "mine" might be helped by the nice solid /j/ at the end of "my", which is almost consonantal. "a" doesn't have that.
14:50:35 <Jibbler> s/ah/an
14:50:37 <nsh> *rhythyms
14:50:43 <nsh> fuckit, you know what i mean
14:50:48 <nsh> *rythyms
14:50:53 <jeanniecool> "a historic moment"
14:50:58 <clsn> Yeah h-initial words are an area of some dispute.
14:51:01 <clsn> rhythms.
14:51:02 <jeanniecool> rhythms, dear
14:51:05 <nsh> yeah one
14:51:19 <nsh> it's the most stupid non-french word in the english language
14:51:21 <clsn> (yes, this winds up using "m" as a vowel, or at least as a syllable. Welcome to English)
14:51:54 <nsh> a[n] h* generally depends on dropping the h stoppage
14:52:06 <clsn> "a one-syllable word", because "one" is /wun/
14:52:10 <nsh> right
14:52:26 <clsn> Somewhat... but "an historic moment" sounds good, even without dropping the h.
14:52:36 * nsh nosd
14:52:38 <nsh> *nods
14:52:45 <clsn> But not "*an horrible mess."
14:52:56 <nsh> h is a bit borderline like that
14:52:58 <jeanniecool> "an human"
14:53:10 <clsn> Right; 'h' is a grey area.
14:53:18 <clsn> "an human" doesn't work for me.
14:53:19 <jeanniecool> Charcoal.
14:53:31 <clsn> Though it should, with that /hj-/ initial...
14:53:45 <jeanniecool> Actually, I don't believe that. I dislike the "an" before almost all words, though I've caught myself doing it with "historic."
14:53:48 <clsn> (which often is /j-/...)
14:54:05 <clsn> yoomin beings have a yooj potential...
14:54:29 <jeanniecool> er, before all H words, I mean. :-)
14:54:42 <jeanniecool> *hate* the "yoomin" thing.
14:54:49 <clsn> The n of an is responsible for some various word-formation too... like "adder" from næder...
14:54:57 <jeanniecool> But I also use "an" as an affectation of the singular - "Can I have an french fry?"
14:55:00 <clsn> "a næder" -> "an adder"...
14:55:11 <clsn> Don't think I've heard that one, jeanniecool
14:55:18 * nsh remember someone talking about it with the image of shuttlecock
14:55:24 <nsh> was is Carroll?
14:55:36 <nsh> (the a naeder -> an adder)
14:55:42 <jeanniecool> Oh, I can't imagine that anyone else does it, clsn. It's very bad and wrong.
14:55:44 <jeanniecool> :-)
14:55:53 <clsn> We like playing with pretend singulars... like "macaronus" (singular of macaroni"), "broccolus", etc.
14:56:01 <jeanniecool> oh, nice!
14:56:23 <clsn> And "speen" (pl. of "spoon")... "sneed" (pl. of "snood")... For some reason I find myself thinking "fairk" for pl. of fork...
14:56:40 <jeanniecool> Less rare, I also like to use "prolly" - also very bad and wrong.
14:56:49 <clsn> My father used to occasionally joke about "bix" as plural of "box", but I prefer "boxen"
14:56:57 * jeanniecool nods
14:57:32 <jeanniecool> My dad was a math prof., but he did like words - or, at least, articles.
14:57:57 <clsn> My dad's a lawyer... He's really familiar with words, though I don't know that he has the same *fondness* for them as I do.
14:58:15 <jeanniecool> s/did/does/, really
14:58:27 <jeanniecool> It would drive him nuts if he heard one of us on the phone saying, "You have the wrong number."
14:58:49 <clsn> (well, wrong for what YOU wanted, anyway)
14:58:53 <jeanniecool> Implication of "the" being that, by def'n, any other number dialed would therefore be a right number.
14:59:07 <clsn> mmm... maybe.
14:59:17 * jeanniecool shrugs
14:59:23 <clsn> OK, actually, that does work.
14:59:32 <jeanniecool> I've said "you have a wrong number" all my life. :-)
14:59:34 <clsn> Though I hadn't thought f it before. :)
14:59:57 * jeanniecool beams
15:00:10 <jeanniecool> I'll tell my dad - he'd be pleased to have another convert. :-D
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15:01:38 <jeanniecool> Another pet peeve (sorry I derailed you all into phone etiquette/convention) is receptionists/screeners who say "Can I tell him who's calling?" instead of "May I" -
15:02:01 <jeanniecool> to those who do, I like to answer, "Only if you know who I am."
15:02:52 * jeanniecool looks around, realizing suddenly that everyone else has wandered away
15:03:02 <jeanniecool> Ahem. Sorry. I'm done now.
15:03:58 * jeanniecool goes away quietly
15:04:02 <clsn> Yeah, the "can/may" is a classic schoolmarm peeve.
15:04:06 <kpreid> Wait, what? You're stoppint?
15:04:10 <kpreid> s/t/g/
15:04:21 <kpreid> .gc schoolmarmaduke
15:04:22 <phenny> schoolmarmaduke: 4
15:04:40 * jeanniecool is clearly in schoolmarm mode ;-)
15:04:50 <jeanniecool> You'd actually like me to continue, kpreid?!?
15:04:53 <clsn> .ety schoolmarm
15:04:54 <phenny> Can't find the etymology for "schoolmarm". Try http://etymonline.com/?search=schoolmarm
15:05:22 <clsn> Huh. I assume it's from "ma'am" or something.
15:05:34 <jeanniecool> that's what I always thought....
15:05:45 <clsn> Odd that etymonline doesn't know.
15:05:46 <nsh> phenny, en fi "can and may"
15:05:52 <nsh> phenny, en fi "can and may"?
15:05:53 <phenny> nsh: "voi ja voi" (en to fi, translate.google.com)
15:06:12 <nsh> phenny, en fi "may i have some cake"?
15:06:14 <phenny> nsh: "voi i joitakin kakku" (en to fi, translate.google.com)
15:06:20 <nsh> bah
15:06:35 <jeanniecool> wow, I didn't know phenny translated. suh-WEET!
15:06:37 <nsh> voi == can [able to]; saa == may [has permision to]
15:06:50 <jeanniecool> ah, didn't know that
15:06:52 <clsn> phenny, en cy "can I see you"?
15:06:52 <phenny> clsn: The en to cy translation failed, sorry!
15:07:03 <clsn> blech, she doesn't do cy. owell.
15:07:05 * jeanniecool speaks only English and German (kinda)
15:07:37 <clsn> Welsh uses "cael" (get, receive) in the sense of "be allowed" as well, much like English "And then I get to go swimming."
15:08:12 <jeanniecool> Another one I've seen popping up on news more frequently is the less/fewer confusion that seems to cause me physical pain when used incorrectly.
15:08:22 <clsn> Yeah, less/fewer is one I watch for.
15:08:22 <jeanniecool> ah, I get it. ;-)
15:08:39 <jeanniecool> Don't even have to watch - just makes me shudder.
15:08:54 <jeanniecool> And not in the good way!
15:08:55 <clsn> I think I may have ONCE seen a supermarket sign correctly saying "12 or fewer items"...
15:09:17 <jeanniecool> Yeah, that's almost never right.
15:09:35 <jeanniecool> I've decided I'm okay with "12 items or less" though.
15:10:08 <clsn> "Ni chaiff gelyn ladd ac ymlid": "The enemy will not get to kill and ravage(?)" -- from Men of Harlech, in Welsh.
15:10:40 <clsn> "caiff" being 3rd-person sing. future of "cael", mutated to chaiff.
15:10:51 <jeanniecool> Huh.
15:10:55 * jeanniecool hearts etymology
15:10:57 <clsn> cael, being an awfully common verb, is naturally horribly irregular.
15:11:11 <jeanniecool> (see? I'm in favor of language morphing... for some things!)
15:11:11 <clsn> It's also commonly used for a lot of passive constructions
15:11:30 <jeanniecool> I learned a lot about English by learning German.
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15:12:22 <clsn> "I got my birth in New Jersey," "my favorite team got its beating by its rivals,"
15:12:43 <jeanniecool> (in which the words change depending on the case, etc.)
15:12:48 <jeanniecool> huh
15:12:59 <jeanniecool> Interesting.
15:13:30 <clsn> There are other passives, and impersonals, but "getting" is very common.
15:13:32 <jeanniecool> Is the passive voice disdained for formal writing in Welsh as it is in English?
15:14:13 <clsn> Um... well, I don't think it's really WRONG in English either: sometimes that's what you need to say! I've certainly seen passive used in Welsh.
15:14:33 <jeanniecool> Oh, not wrong - but discouraged when, say, writing a paper in college, etc.
15:14:46 <clsn> Saying where someone "was born" is often the best way of saying it, not "his mother gave birth to him..."
15:15:15 <clsn> I know... And you do have to watch out for overusing it. But sometimes it's the best way to say what you need to say.
15:15:33 * jeanniecool ndos
15:15:35 <jeanniecool> *nods
15:15:46 <clsn> Even Biblical Hebrew has very distinct and carefully used passive forms.
15:16:06 <jeanniecool> again, concurrence
15:16:42 <clsn> Tho that gets interesting when they're distinguished purely by vowels, since maybe the earlier consonantal text wasn't passive...
15:17:05 <clsn> I've noticed that in the Samaritan work I've done, that often the Samaritan seems to be active in vocalization.
15:17:18 <clsn> Though grokking Samaritan vocalization isn't quite so easy.
15:17:25 <jeanniecool> wait, what? "by vowels"?
15:17:28 <jeanniecool> eh
15:17:30 <jeanniecool> *hehe
15:17:34 <jeanniecool> ** heh
15:17:34 <jeanniecool> there.
15:18:00 <clsn> Um... K, what do you know about Hebrew?
15:18:14 <jeanniecool> Um... nuthin'.
15:18:29 <jeanniecool> So if it's complicated, you needn't go there.
15:18:37 <jeanniecool> Just an example will suffice. :-)
15:18:59 <clsn> OK... In Hebrew, only consonants are letters, vowels are diacritics (this is an oversimplification, but it resembles truth).
15:19:07 <jeanniecool> ah
15:19:13 <clsn> And the vowels frequently aren't even written, or aren't all written.
15:19:17 * jeanniecool will accept it
15:19:27 <clsn> And what's more, the vowels were only invented in like the 8th century; before that there were ONLY the consonants.
15:19:42 <jeanniecool> cool.
15:19:43 <clsn> The consonantal text of the Bible is far older than the Masoretic vowels that go with it.
15:20:00 <clsn> So if two word-forms differ only in vowels, the consonantal text wouldn't reflect that.
15:20:13 <jeanniecool> gotcha
15:21:54 <clsn> The Samaritans have their own tradition of vocalization, both a different grammar and different vowels on the letters.
15:22:07 <jeanniecool> Very tricksy.
15:22:32 <clsn> You can do this in Hebrew (and other Semitic languages) because of the way words are structured. Meaning is carried by consonants, and grammar by vowels (again, wildly oversimplified)
15:23:09 <clsn> K, gotta go clean up some house.
15:23:26 * jeanniecool appreciates the lesson
15:23:33 <jeanniecool> Thank you!
15:24:12 *** jessica (n=jpallan@66.92.66.26) has joined #swhack
15:24:30 <zachb> yay linguistics
15:27:41 *** saml (n=saml@pool-71-249-59-69.nycmny.east.verizon.net) has joined #swhack
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15:56:17 <nslater> zachb effectively kills the conversation again! ;)
16:02:22 <jessica> Good evening, Mr. Slater.
16:02:29 <nslater> hello jessica HOW ARE YOU?
16:03:08 <jessica> Very well, thank you, and you?
16:03:15 <nslater> okay, 'spose
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16:07:09 <zachb> No, I waited until it already died!
16:12:37 <nsh> }}}{{{
16:12:46 <nsh> ^^^ abstract portrait of jessica
16:13:07 <chandler> you are a diverging flock of seagulls, ma'am
16:13:26 <sbp> and they're all going to crash into the mooon
16:14:19 <nsh> to the MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON
16:14:22 <nsh> (find the 0)
16:14:27 <nsh> [newbs]
16:14:40 <nslater> found it
16:14:49 <jessica> chandler, are you familiar with the work of a Mr. Humperdinck, specifically his composition of the tune "Lesbian Seagull"?
16:15:41 <chandler> no, but it sounds like an aerotic concept
16:15:47 <sbp> better a newb than an ewb
16:15:58 <nsh> chandler++
16:16:14 <nsh> sbp: NUewb
16:18:14 <jessica> Ah, #swhack. One of my preferred forms of Dadaism.
16:18:25 *** jeffarch_ (n=jja@pdpc/supporter/active/jeffarch) has joined #swhack
16:19:01 <chandler> #swhack knows everything. #swhack spits everything out.
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16:23:03 *** ejot (n=ejot@user99.77-105-202.netatonce.net) has joined #swhack
16:27:46 <chandler> .title http://www.ralphmag.org/AR/dada.html
16:27:50 <phenny> chandler: DADA, the DADA Manifesto, Tristan Tzara
16:28:08 *** mahound (n=mahound@unaffiliated/mahound) has joined #swhack
16:28:09 <Monty> bah, it's mahound again
16:34:07 <jessica> http://strangemaps.wordpress.com/2008/07/21/299-niam-niam-the-cannibal-map-of-the-world/
16:34:14 <jessica> .title
16:34:14 <phenny> jessica: 299 - Niam Niam: the Cannibal Map of the World « Strange Maps
16:34:17 <Morbus> sbp: http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html
16:35:30 *** panni_ (i=hannes@ip-88-152-22-213.hsi.ish.de) has joined #swhack
16:36:20 <jsled> Um. Why is APOD showing that.
16:36:25 <jsled> I mean, sure, it's cool. But...
16:36:35 <Morbus> it's quite cool, yeah.
16:36:36 <Monty> reminds me (google, yahoo, etc)
16:36:38 <Morbus> and quite perplexing ;)
16:36:56 <nslater> wtf
16:37:23 <nslater> "Each day a different image or photograph of our fascinating universe is featured, along with a brief explanation written by a professional astronomer."
16:37:36 <nslater> I want to read the commentary from the astronomer on dancing
16:37:50 <nslater> also, that guy could have chosen a better dance
16:37:55 <Morbus> oop, there was astronomy in there.
16:38:03 <Morbus> at 3:58, roughly;
16:38:08 * Morbus grins.
16:38:35 <nslater> i bet it was fun making that video
16:38:42 <Morbus> aw, fucking hell naw.
16:38:46 <Morbus> it was sponsored by fucking stride.
16:38:58 <nslater> stride?
16:39:01 <Morbus> the gum.
16:39:17 <nslater> gum, dancing, traveling the glob... sure, makes sense (wtf)
16:39:23 *** mmmmmrob_ has quit ("we're off to see the wizard...")
16:39:24 <nslater> erm, globe
16:39:37 <sbp> Morbus: chuckle. they're really running out of ideas
16:39:43 <Morbus> "The response to the first video brought Matt to the attention of the nice people at Stride gum. They asked Matt if he'd be interested in taking another trip around the world to make a new video. Matt asked if they'd be paying for it. They said yes. Matt thought this sounded like another very good idea."
16:39:44 <sbp> I love the Korean bit
16:40:17 <Morbus> yeah, in the DMZ.
16:40:18 <Morbus> heh, heh.
16:41:23 *** libby has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
16:42:30 * Morbus adds him to his xbox friends list.
16:42:34 <sbp> hehe
16:42:43 *** KiYanWang has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:43:33 <nslater> sbp: is there a function in python which will concat two lists?
16:43:46 <sbp> um yes. +
16:44:07 <nslater> meh, wanted something other than the + opperator
16:44:10 <sbp> >>> WTF = ['w', 't', 'f']
16:44:10 <sbp> >>> LOL = ['l', 'o', 'l']
16:44:10 <sbp> >>> WTF + LOL
16:44:10 <sbp> ['w', 't', 'f', 'l', 'o', 'l']
16:44:10 <sbp> >>>
16:44:14 <sbp> what? why?
16:44:30 <sbp> how do you concat strings?
16:44:35 <nslater> comapare:
16:44:39 <Morbus> [[[
16:44:39 <Morbus> Why didn't you die from jellyfish stings in Palau?
16:44:40 <Morbus> There is a place in Palau called Jellyfish Lake. Long ago, the lake connected with the surrounding ocean, but at some point it got closed off. Without any predators to worry about, the lake's jellyfish population evolved -- oh, I'm sorry, "intelligently designiated" -- to lose their stingers.
16:44:40 <Morbus> ]]]
16:44:53 <sbp> hehe
16:45:12 <Morbus> [[[
16:45:12 <Morbus> Why didn't you dance with penguins?
16:45:12 <Morbus> I did. But penguins are small, and it just didn't turn out as good as the shot that's in there.
16:45:13 <Morbus> ]]]
16:45:21 <sbp> heh
16:45:34 <nslater> [[[
16:45:38 <nslater> function(* this_returns_a_list() + this_returns_a_list())
16:45:39 <nslater> function(*add( this_returns_a_list(), this_returns_a_list()))
16:45:40 <nslater> ]]]
16:45:50 * bancus makes a point to relase exactly one stingered jellyfish in Palau.
16:45:50 <nslater> argh, stupid irssi fucking up my newlines
16:46:08 <Morbus> [[[
16:46:08 <Morbus> This is all a big hoax, isn't it? You did it with a green screen. You never left your house. It's true, isn't it?
16:46:08 <Morbus> Yes.
16:46:08 <Morbus> I knew it! I'm telling everyone! You're nailed, buddy!
16:46:09 <Morbus> ]]]
16:46:21 <bancus> nslater: I'm not sure what the problem is.
16:46:27 <nslater> aesthetics
16:46:37 <bancus> But you can use any operator via a function.
16:46:43 <bancus> list.__add__(other_list)
16:46:50 <nslater> oh man, aesthetics!
16:46:56 <bancus> (At least I think that's what it is for +)
16:47:05 <sbp> function(*(this_returns_a_list() + this_returns_a_list()))
16:47:08 <sbp> what about that?
16:47:08 <bancus> + is perfectly aesthetic to me
16:47:17 <nslater> I just want a way of using "*" with multiple lists that "looks" nice
16:47:21 <sbp> add(list, anotherlist) is just silly
16:47:24 <nslater> k
16:47:26 <sbp> you wouldn't do it with a string
16:47:30 <nslater> no
16:47:40 <sbp> you could also var it
16:47:44 <nslater> hmm?
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16:47:49 <sbp> hmm = somelist() + somelist()
16:47:52 <sbp> function(*hmm)
16:47:56 <bancus> I mean, you could do def add(foo, bar): return foo + bar
16:48:00 <bancus> If you really really wanted to.
16:48:04 <nslater> I have started becoming more spartan with my code
16:48:11 <bancus> MADNESS
16:48:13 <nslater> avoiding variable declarations when it is only used once
16:48:30 <nslater> .g spartan coding
16:48:31 <phenny> nslater: http://www.historywiz.com/didyouknow/spartanfamily.htm
16:48:35 <nslater> no!
16:48:51 <nslater> .title http://ssdl-wiki.cs.technion.ac.il/wiki/index.php/Spartan_programming
16:48:55 <phenny> nslater: Spartan programming - Ssdlpedia
16:49:11 <sbp> sometimes the most efficient thing or most logical thing is simply not æsthetic, sadly
16:49:22 <jsled> which is fine until you need to debug. :/
16:49:40 <jsled> plus, variable names are a nice way to convey semantics and intent.
16:49:51 <nslater> true, there are no hard and fast rules
16:50:11 <sbp> I have a nice example somewhere
16:50:13 <nslater> I just find my self ever more able to parse code natively without need for comments or verbosity, this is simply an extension of that
16:51:04 <nslater> jsled: often, if you have multiple levels of calls, this can be better spread out using functions for the same effect
16:51:07 <sbp> middle of http://inamidst.com/topic/bugfree
16:52:57 <nsh> pfts@yous
16:53:41 <nsh> by the end, i did all my coding within eval calls from irc bots launched by a 236 char perl -e cmdline
16:53:51 <nsh> spartan is for pussies
16:53:56 <nslater> nurface
16:54:29 <nslater> sbp: interesting, that article... kinda mirrors what I have been doing
17:00:39 <procto> mooo
17:02:36 <nslater> ______
17:02:36 <nslater> < meep >
17:02:36 <nslater> ------
17:02:36 <nslater> \ ^__^
17:02:36 <nslater> \ (oo)\_______
17:02:39 <nslater> (__)\ )\/\
17:02:41 <nslater> ||----w |
17:02:44 <nslater> || ||
17:04:49 <zachb> moospap!
17:05:05 <zachb> (__)
17:05:05 <zachb> (oo)
17:05:05 <zachb> /------\/
17:05:05 <zachb> / | ||
17:05:05 <zachb> * /\---/\
17:05:06 <zachb> ~~ ~~
17:05:13 <zachb> s/spap/spam/
17:10:57 * Morbus giggles: http://www.zedshaw.com/rants/i_want_the_mutt_of_feed_readers.html
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17:11:35 <nslater> "It’s not my main email client because it doesn’t support folders" - what
17:12:57 *** BigJibby has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
17:13:24 <Morbus> "RSS Mix Tape Pulldowns for categorization? Seriously? Fucking pulldowns? You expect me to tear apart my wrists categorizing everything I read because you’re too stupid to do a simple text prompt?"
17:13:25 * Morbus snickers
17:13:47 <Morbus> what the hell is an LL-TL-BC reader.
17:14:45 <jsled> Left List, Top List, Bottom Content
17:14:51 <Morbus> ah.
17:14:58 <nslater> there is no mention of it in google
17:15:00 <jsled> He defines it in page, but I went searching elsewhere first.
17:15:13 <jsled> I did the same damn thing a couple of days ago, heh.
17:15:54 <jsled> I find google reader's keyboard support to be awesome. It'd not quite "just hit 'n'", but I don't want that, usually.
17:16:14 <jsled> While I have like 20 folders, there's really sort of 3 or 4 functional subsets of them that are context-appropriate.
17:16:43 <nslater> why does he think mutt has no folders
17:16:51 <zachb> I might have to try that one he liked
17:17:14 * Morbus ggiles with http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=iphone
17:17:16 <jsled> yeah, he's high.
17:17:41 <zachb> Hah
17:18:07 * nsh the go home naotime
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17:19:03 <zachb> " 3,563,420 people who bought an iPhone hadn't heard of the Nokia E70 until now because Nokia's marketing team is too busy tossing salad to get the word out. "
17:19:06 <jsled> awesome.
17:19:29 <jsled> "↓ moist".
17:20:33 <zachb> .title http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1823766
17:20:34 <phenny> zachb: Font Conference - CollegeHumor video
17:23:08 <zachb> I love wingdings :P
17:24:39 <Morbus> heh, heh
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17:25:47 <Morbus> hahah.
17:25:51 <Morbus> wingdings rules.
17:25:57 <Morbus> mailbox! Mailbox! MAILBOX!
17:26:33 <zachb> OPEN MAILBOX!
17:26:41 <zachb> "Which one of you will we make sans-serif?"
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17:40:43 <nsh> n5h, cyberbully yourself
17:40:43 <n5h> i'm not alone. okay, i was just a hunch
17:41:03 *** jeffarch_ is now known as jeffarch
17:41:09 <nslater> n5h, ur face is a hunch
17:41:10 <n5h> little did they get in the ideas he presents sound initially like whackloonacy of the players - and not based upon an objective context-independent disctinction between the two? a clear cut one that implements the abstract method
17:42:39 <sbp> bj0ern: what do you think of whackloonacy?
17:42:40 <bj0ern> with s/ /it would, i tried sucked donkey balls
17:42:45 <sbp> 'k
