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00:07:26 <nsh> .gs * have a thousand fathers
00:07:27 <phenny> * have a thousand fathers: as we see (10), victory may (6), said to (6)
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00:22:01 <nsh> .c 2500 kilocalories per day in watts
00:22:01 <phenny> 2500 (kilocalories per day) = 121.064815 watts
00:22:37 <nsh> .c 150,000,000 watts / (2500 kilocalories per day)
00:22:37 <phenny> (150 000 000 watts) / (2500 (kilocalories per day)) = 1 239 005.74
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00:27:43 <nsh> .c (150 kilowatts) / (2500 kilocalories per day)
00:27:43 <phenny> (150 kilowatts) / (2500 (kilocalories per day)) = 1 239.00574
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01:53:50 <clsn> .c 4000000000000 kilowatt hours in joules
01:53:51 <phenny> 4 000 000 000 000 kilowatt hours = 1.44e19 joules
01:54:19 <clsn> .c speed of light ^2
01:54:20 <phenny> the speed of light^2 = 8.98755179e16 m2 / s2
01:54:59 <clsn> .c 1.4e19 joules / 9e16 m^2/s^2
01:55:00 <phenny> ((1.4e19 joules) / (9e16 (m^2))) / (s^2) = 155.555556 kg / s4
01:55:11 <clsn> .c 1.4e19 joules / 9e16 m^2 s^-2
01:55:12 <phenny> (1.4e19 joules) / (9e16 (m^2) (s^(-2))) = 155.555556 kilograms
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02:29:26 <Monty> Speak of the devil, it's kpreid!
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04:15:30 <Monty> it's The_Pot!
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04:23:22 <Monty> lo The_Pot
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08:16:20 <thelsdj> the more i think about it the more i like CADIE, i was dissapointed at first, but can't stop grinning exploring the various pages
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08:26:09 <thelsdj> wouldn't it be funny if /.'s april fools joke was to only post real stories all day long?
08:26:37 <_ulises> and have people comment in a useful manner?
08:29:16 <thelsdj> THAT would be amazing
08:29:22 <[bjoern]> The CCC has a good one.
08:29:38 <thelsdj> have CADIE take over /. would be nice too
08:30:25 <thelsdj> ccc?
08:30:33 <[bjoern]> .wik CCC
08:30:34 <phenny> "Consolidated Contractors Company, a large Middle Eastern and International EPC Contractor" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CCC
08:30:40 <[bjoern]> .wik Chaos Computer Club
08:30:40 <phenny> "The Chaos Computer Club (CCC) is one of the biggest and most influential hacker organizations." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_Computer_Club
08:34:11 <[bjoern]> .title http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/5080797/Hamid-Karzai-signs-law-legalising-rape-in-marriage.html
08:34:11 <phenny> [bjoern]: Hamid Karzai signs law 'legalising rape in marriage' - Telegraph
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09:50:11 <nslater> loggy: pointer
09:50:11 <loggy> http://swhack.com/logs/2009-04-01#T09-50-11
09:52:02 <cre8radix> heya
09:55:52 <nslater> hey cre8radix
09:57:23 <cre8radix> hey nslater
09:57:33 <cre8radix> house you doing?
09:57:36 <cre8radix> :D
09:57:50 <nslater> okay, thanks, wondering why my vm powered down last night
10:00:59 <nslater> hmm, it's april fool day today
10:01:43 <_ulises> yo motherfuton
10:03:06 <cre8radix> :D
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10:07:32 <sbp> yo
10:07:33 <phenny> sbp: 03:02Z <Arnia> tell sbp http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/apr/01/guardian-twitter-media-technology
10:07:48 <nslater> yo sbp
10:08:18 <_ulises> yo sbp
10:10:52 <sbp> nslater: bwahahaha at email
10:10:56 <sbp> yo _ulises!
10:11:06 <_ulises> yo yo
10:11:11 <sbp> the footnote was the best bit
10:11:33 <sbp> what up?
10:11:46 <_ulises> not much, migrating some couchdb servers, you?
10:16:22 <sbp> .gc "slightly smaller than Oregon"
10:16:24 <phenny> "slightly smaller than Oregon": 1,110
10:16:31 <sbp> watching the news, eating breakfast, and playing pirates
10:18:16 <_ulises> ah, pirates, totally forgot about that thing
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10:22:06 <sbp> hahaha. BBC News:
10:22:31 <sbp> "the police are very worried that violent gangs, violent gangs from the 1990s, may have reformed about be amongst the crowd, people like The Wombles..."
10:25:08 <sbp> cre8radix: why are you not in the UK protesting?
10:25:13 <sbp> G20, mang. protest central
10:25:30 <cre8radix> i was protesting in berlin
10:25:41 <cre8radix> yet... i would've loved to come
10:25:50 <cre8radix> but i haz to work
10:25:53 <aspect> .wik wombles
10:25:53 <phenny> "The Wombles were created by author Elisabeth Beresford, originally appearing in a series of children's novels from 1968." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wombles
10:26:05 <cre8radix> sbp: will come this summer tho
10:26:19 <sbp> cool
10:26:27 <sbp> _ulises: I can has boost pls?
10:26:44 <sbp> I'm only a dozen levels behind Morbus now
10:27:08 <_ulises> sbp: you can indeed
10:28:06 <sbp> kthx!
10:28:14 <_ulises> i keep losing my top mates >:(
10:28:38 <_ulises> sbp: you haz teh boost
10:29:52 <sbp> yay
10:30:36 <sbp> hasn't come through yet, though
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10:31:00 <cre8radix> '
10:31:45 <_ulises> well, when I added you as top mate it automatically sent you a boost
10:31:50 <_ulises> and now I can't send it again
10:31:57 <_ulises> pirates haz bugz
10:32:26 <sbp> yeah...
10:33:02 <cre8radix> _ulises: wanna add me to your crew as well?
10:33:08 <cre8radix> :D
10:33:09 <_ulises> cre8radix: sure
10:33:19 <_ulises> search for Aristo Constabuler
10:33:21 <_ulises> Constabular
10:33:39 <sbp> [[[
10:33:40 <sbp> A mammoth project is also under way to rewrite the whole of the newspaper's archive, stretching back to 1821, in the form of tweets. Major stories already completed include "1832 Reform Act gives voting rights to one in five adult males yay!!!"; "OMG Hitler invades Poland, allies declare war see tinyurl.com/b5x6e for more"; and "JFK assassin8d @ Dallas, def. heard second gunshot from grassy knoll WTF?"
10:33:44 <sbp> ]]] - The Guardian
10:34:57 <_ulises> heh, read it
10:35:04 <sbp> oh man. "A unique collaboration between The Guardian and Twitter will also see the launch of Gutter, an experimental service designed to filter noteworthy liberal opinion from the cacophony of Twitter updates."
10:35:29 <[bjoern]> booring.
10:35:32 <cre8radix> _ulises: i guess one can only add friends...
10:35:56 <cre8radix> let's be friends then - hehe
10:35:58 <_ulises> cre8radix: yeah, add me as friend and then once im in your crew you can remove me as friend
10:36:06 <cre8radix> lol
10:36:12 <cre8radix> yeah
10:36:21 <cre8radix> get outta here
10:36:25 <cre8radix> :D
10:36:31 <sbp> helloxes untog thoupuentcies, el [bjoernificatio]
10:36:45 <sbp> remove that fuckersucker
10:36:55 <cre8radix> _ulises: so what's yer name?
10:36:58 <sbp> hmm, suckerfucker might be funnier
10:37:05 <sbp> .gcs suckerfucker fuckersucker
10:37:06 <phenny> fuckersucker (530), suckerfucker (346)
10:37:10 <sbp> hmm
10:37:11 <[bjoern]> http://wp1007209.wp014.webpack.hosteurope.de/pfalzstorch/tagesarchiv_bornheim1/tag/1902.jpg
10:37:13 <_ulises> cre8radix: Aristo Constabular
10:37:35 <sbp> [bjoern]: new eggs come every couple of days don't they/
10:37:48 <sbp> how many did we have last year/ three/ what's up with my question key/
10:37:51 <[bjoern]> mebbe
10:38:01 <[bjoern]> uuh five?
10:38:14 <cre8radix> _ulises: DONE
10:38:22 <sbp> let's split the difference and say eight
10:38:24 <_ulises> awesome
10:38:50 <[bjoern]> last year first egg 30.3.
10:38:54 <_ulises> cre8radix: no notifications yet
10:39:25 <_ulises> sbp: thx for boost
10:39:45 <nslater> "def. heard second gunshot from grassy knoll WTF?" hahah
10:40:06 <sbp> yw
10:40:20 <[bjoern]> three it seems
10:40:26 <sbp> .gcs eggnog eggblog
10:40:27 <phenny> eggnog (341,000), eggblog (9,790)
10:40:29 <[bjoern]> though that sounds too few
10:40:35 <sbp> see, I said three!
10:40:42 <sbp> three was that thing that I said!
10:40:55 <sbp> only 341,000 results for eggnog?
10:41:10 <sbp> I get 9,630,000
10:41:21 <sbp> starting to doubt the accuracy of .gc these days
10:41:23 <sbp> .gc bjoern
10:41:23 <phenny> bjoern: 4,060,000
10:41:30 <sbp> at least that's higher than 0 now
10:41:37 <cre8radix> [bjoern]: http://twitpic.com/2obyz
10:41:44 <cre8radix> :D
10:41:47 <sbp> "Protestors shout 'shame on you' at banks"
10:41:52 <cre8radix> lol
10:41:59 <cre8radix> what's next?
10:42:07 <sbp> pointing fingers, perhaps?
10:42:14 <cre8radix> housearrest?
10:42:14 <nslater> this is reasonably fun today: http://news.ycombinator.com/
10:42:32 <nslater> seems to have all the techy april fools on one page
10:42:36 <cre8radix> to bed without dinner??
10:43:18 <[bjoern]> boring
10:43:35 <cre8radix> [bjoern]: whazzamatter?
10:43:44 <sbp> "Last week, someone from their business development group contacted me to arrange a preview of the system. He spent an hour with me today, discussing the system and showing me how it worked. I couldn’t type into the search box myself, but he did let me suggest queries and then entered them for me."
10:43:50 <sbp> — http://thenoisychannel.com/2009/03/31/wolfram-alpha-first-hand-impressions/
10:43:59 <sbp> Wolfram|Alpha is *that* fragile?
10:44:08 <sbp> "no, don't type at it! you'll break it!"
10:46:05 <nslater> haha
10:46:54 <cre8radix> lol: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21OH0wlkfbc
10:47:03 <cre8radix> that is good!
10:47:12 <cre8radix> .title
10:47:13 <phenny> cre8radix: YouTube - Bert & Ernie tries Gangsta-Rap
10:47:26 <nslater> http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/04/01/april-fools-youtube-flails-amazon-cloud-computing-in-a-blimp-3d-chrome-browsing-google-master-ai/
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10:52:58 <[bjoern]> .title http://www.theonion.com/content/video/dna_evidence_frees_black_man
10:52:59 <phenny> [bjoern]: DNA Evidence Frees Black Man Convicted Of Bear Attack | The Onion - America's Finest News Source
10:53:15 <nslater> wow so many
10:53:48 <nslater> sbp: have you seen the vid on http://labs.opera.com/news/2009/04/01/
10:54:08 <sbp> phenny: tell Arnia http://fluidapp.com/
10:54:08 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when Arnia is around.
10:54:13 <sbp> nslater: nope? summary?
10:54:20 <nslater> opera face gestures
10:54:23 <nslater> ... funny video
10:54:33 <sbp> oh, yeah, I saw it on ycomb
10:54:35 <sbp> and skipped it
10:54:49 <[bjoern]> It didn't seem worth watching.
10:54:53 <nslater> shup
10:54:59 <nslater> ... i dont care. it's funny
10:55:18 <[bjoern]> "According to sources in the White House, President Barack Obama has been uncharacteristically distant and withdrawn ever since last month's two-hour series finale of Battlestar Galactica."
10:55:35 <[bjoern]> '"Yesterday we were all being briefed on the encroachment of Iranian drone planes into Iraq, when he just looked up from the table and blurted out, 'What am I supposed to watch on Fridays at 10 p.m. now? Numb3rs?'"'
10:56:19 <sbp> yeah, well. he is a man
10:56:35 <[bjoern]> 'A devoted fan of the original 1978 Battlestar Galactica, Obama was initially hesitant to watch the new series, saying he was upset to learn that hotshot pilot Starbuck would be played by a woman.'
10:56:41 <[bjoern]> they did What??
10:57:05 <sbp> I'm not sure that I get Fluid
10:57:09 <sbp> though I do like the icons
10:57:12 <sbp> the icons are purdy
10:57:17 <[bjoern]> this isn't too bad http://www.theonion.com/content/node/35657?utm_source=infocus
10:57:21 <sbp> .title
10:57:22 <phenny> sbp: Gorillagram Employee Shot By White House Security | The Onion - America's Finest News Source
10:57:38 <nslater> sbp: looks like that mozilla project
10:57:40 <[bjoern]> it'd be better if you hadn't titled it first
10:57:51 <sbp> nah, now it means I don't have to read the article
10:57:56 <sbp> it's called "efficiency"
10:58:03 <sbp> nslater: oh?
10:58:20 <nslater> sbp: there is a mozilla project which provides a thin firefox per webapp for stuff like gmail, so you can have a gmail icon in your dock, and it launches the gmail webapp
10:58:32 <[bjoern]> the section is called "News In Photos"
10:58:34 <sbp> yeah, what's it called?
10:58:40 <nslater> dunno, it will be on mozilla labs
10:58:55 <nslater> sbp: let me research that for you, 2 mins
10:58:58 <sbp> [bjoern]: ah, thanks
10:59:13 <nslater> sbp: http://labs.mozilla.com/projects/prism/
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10:59:38 <nslater> sbp: in fact, from the fluidapp homepage: "Fluid was inspired by the excellent Prism (formerly WebRunner) project by Mozilla Labs. Check out Prism for much more information about SSBs and the benefits they provide to WebApp lovers."
10:59:53 <nslater> "Fluid is very similar in nature to Prism, but is based on Safari's WebKit rendering engine. And SSBs created by Fluid are true, native Cocoa OS X applications offering seamless integration into the Mac OS."
11:02:06 <Jibbler> http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2009/04/01/deluge_of_browser_security_issues_drives_mass_migration.html
11:03:07 <nslater> i wish this was true:
11:03:17 <nslater> "A few years after WWII ended, a young man working in a small restaurant in Sweden developed a new way to process bacon. By precooking it and blending it in a special way, he was able to make a fully cooked 100% bacon paste that could be squeezed from a tube. Knowing he had discovered something paradigm-shifting, young Vilhelm Lillefläsk quickly went into business. That, dear friends, is when Squeez Bacon® was born. And this delicious delectable ...
11:03:23 <nslater> ... from Sweden has finally been brought over to the USA - now with American Flavor!" - http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/41/squeez-bacon.html
11:05:42 <nslater> telnet, 1% heh
11:07:22 * nslater does not like reddit today
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11:11:02 <nslater> wholy fuck: http://kuvaton.com/kuvei/revolting_door.gif
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11:13:55 <Monty> Speak of the devil, it's JimJibber!
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11:17:05 <_ulises> awesome, bwahaha
11:17:13 <_ulises> ref revolving door
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12:02:32 <[bjoern]> remind me in 45 minutes to !!
12:02:33 <Monty> [bjoern]: Okay, I'll remind you about that on Wed Apr 01 13:47:25 BST 2009
12:04:52 <[bjoern]> .c ln 24 / ln 2
12:04:53 <phenny> ln(24) / ln(2) = 4.5849625
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12:13:47 <Monty> Speak of the devil, it's The_Pot_!
12:14:46 <The_Pot_> but what does Monty has to do with the price of fish?
12:14:46 <Monty> Why do you ask ?
12:15:24 <The_Pot_> speak of the Monty, its devil!
12:15:27 <Monty> The truth: hostages respects anthropomorphic Saddam.
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12:38:26 <sbp> heh. Nick Robinson asked Obama and Brown whether the USA was to blame for the financial crisis or whether it was the USA and the UK
12:38:32 <sbp> and Obama stumbled through an answer slowly
12:39:19 <sbp> but then Brown said he'd met the Brazilian president recently, and that he'd said that when he was the leader of the trade unions, he blamed the government; when he was the leader of the opposition, he blamed the government; and that now he is the government, he blames the US and the UK
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12:42:22 <[bjoern]> .bytes €
12:42:22 <phenny> [bjoern]: '\xe2\x82\xac'
12:42:56 <sbp> [bjoern]: can a member nation be ejected from the EU?
12:43:27 <Arnia> sbp: hah, I quite like that manner of response
12:43:27 <phenny> Arnia: 10:54Z <sbp> tell Arnia http://fluidapp.com/
12:43:38 <sbp> yeah, it was pretty good
12:44:01 <[bjoern]> there were plans to make that possible e.g. when failing to ratify a treaty, not sure what the state if things is.
12:44:15 <sbp> any bets on which might be the first nation to be ejected, if any?
12:45:18 <_ulises> sbp: greece, ireland, spain
12:45:36 <_ulises> sbp: put turkey on top
12:45:46 <sbp> is Turkey even a member yet?
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12:45:56 <_ulises> no, it's no (I dont think) my bad
12:46:15 <sbp> yeah, Wikipedia says it's still waiting
12:46:25 <sbp> “Turkey's application to accede to the European Union (previously the European Communities) was made on 14 April 1987.”
12:46:26 <_ulises> sbp: basically the EU's poorest countries will be the ones suffering the most
12:46:29 <[bjoern]> they would probably leave "voluntarily" if that were ever to happen
12:46:40 <_ulises> sbp: whether they get kicked out or pull out will be a matter of style really
12:46:41 <sbp> yeah, I suppose
12:46:47 <_ulises> exactly
12:46:52 <sbp> .gc suppoguess
12:46:53 <phenny> suppoguess: 1
12:46:53 <Monty> he'd said it used for the comment as improvements, pushes others to correct them did some binaries
12:47:03 <sbp> .gc guessuppose
12:47:04 <phenny> guessuppose: 1
12:47:40 <Monty> [bjoern]: You asked me to remind you to !!
12:48:49 <sbp> wow, Turkey has the second largest NATO force
12:49:01 <[bjoern]> lisppaste2: url?
12:49:01 <lisppaste2> To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/swhack and enter your paste.
12:49:34 <lisppaste2> [bjoern] pasted "first actual whirl at dfa based utf-8 decoder in c" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77871
12:49:48 <[bjoern]> gonna tweak it a bit later
12:50:47 <[bjoern]> (maps byte to character class and a mask that gets rid of the length indicating bits in the byte, then looks up state,class in the dfa)
12:51:28 <[bjoern]> tables could be a lot smaller if i had a way to strip those leading bits with code
12:51:58 <[bjoern]> second table could be 4 bits per entry already, but requires more code for lookup then
12:52:22 <[bjoern]> could also make a jump for ascii, would have to test performance of that
12:52:36 <[bjoern]> also accepting state should probably be 0 not 1
12:52:59 <[bjoern]> does not stop when bad octet found, but does not report more chars after that either
12:53:40 <[bjoern]> also fails to reset unic after char found...
12:54:20 <sbp> what do you expect its performance characteristics to be?
12:54:22 <[bjoern]> trouble is modern cpus make performance estimates very difficult for this kind of code...
12:54:27 <sbp> ah
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12:54:58 <Monty> lo The_Pot
12:55:10 <sbp> were you already typing that before I entered my line?
12:55:16 <sbp> or did you just respond unbelievably quickly?
12:55:17 <[bjoern]> yeah
12:55:19 <sbp> heh
12:55:53 <sbp> I was like, "no wonder his keyboard breaks down if he's gonna type that fast"
12:56:20 <[bjoern]> I compensate slow typing speed by anticipating questions
12:56:26 <sbp> good idea
12:56:30 *** The_Pot has quit (SendQ exceeded)
12:56:48 <sbp> I should learn to anticipate your answers
12:56:54 *** The_Pot (i=The_Pot@unaffiliated/chinmay) has joined #swhack
12:56:56 <sbp> then we won't even have to type
12:57:08 <sbp> we can just play ascii tennis whilst we mindchat
12:57:16 <sbp> .gcs mindchat anticichat
12:57:17 <phenny> mindchat (937), anticichat (0)
12:58:02 <[bjoern]> if anyone has a good idea how to strip the lead bits, would be very welcome
12:58:19 <[bjoern]> I trixed a bit but nothing obviously good came up
12:58:32 <sbp> get deltab on the case
12:58:38 <sbp> deltab will find a way!
12:58:52 <sbp> deltab is like lubricant for your code
12:59:34 <sbp> just one squirt of deltab, and your code will motor!
12:59:47 <sbp> we asked Jim Henshall of Wolverhampton what he thought about all-new deltab:
13:00:31 <sbp> "Yes I find deltab to be a very good lubricant for your code, increasing code optimisation by a factor of over 3000%, and making things run noticably smoother to both developers and users alike."
13:00:46 <sbp> thank you, Jim, for your comment
13:01:04 <[bjoern]> (what i tried among other things was numbering the classes such that I can get some mask off the class number)
13:01:21 <[bjoern]> gotta go
13:01:48 <sbp> does it really matter if the tables are big?
13:01:54 *** leobard has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
13:02:12 <sbp> (won't algorithmically stripping the lead bits just make it slower?)
13:02:22 <[bjoern]> don't know!
13:02:36 <sbp> you could always test the performance
13:02:41 <sbp> (if you use a decade old CPU)
13:04:39 * Arnia logarithmically strips sbp
13:07:10 <sbp> aw
13:07:25 *** MacTed (n=Thud@63.119.36.36) has joined #swhack
13:07:25 <Monty> lo MacTed
13:07:44 <_ulises> get a room
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13:13:53 <sbp> "And now, some sarcastic applause, for the police:"
13:14:01 <sbp> "[the crowd applaud politely]"
13:16:44 *** d3llboy has quit (Remote closed the connection)
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13:22:14 <_ulises> sbp: you following the g20?
13:22:31 <sbp> _ulises: yeah
13:22:44 <sbp> they're talking about nuclear armaments on the news at the moment
13:22:47 <sbp> going to be talks about it
13:23:11 <sbp> the Chinese president has invited Obama to visit there in the second half of 2009
13:23:13 <sbp> and he's accepted
13:23:13 <_ulises> surely israel will complain about iran's potential to build weapons but fail to mention their arsenal?
13:23:22 <sbp> heh, probably
13:23:28 *** lmorchard is now known as lmorchard|away
13:23:53 <_ulises> the rest of the leaders will probably start discussing the weather when some supporter of iran points this out though
13:24:47 * sbp wonders how placeholder arguments in perl6 are ordered
13:25:14 <sbp> probably. mainly they'll be talking about finance anyway
13:25:28 <_ulises> yeah
13:25:33 <_ulises> and the Falklands
13:25:51 <_ulises> the Argentinian president demanded to discuss that with Brown
13:27:24 <sbp> ah: "Using placeholders in a block defines an implicit parameter list. The signature is the list of distinct positional placeholder names, sorted in Unicode order, following by the named placeholder names in any order." - S06
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13:35:06 <Arnia> ... I've just got a photo from Will Carling having a haircut. We live in a strange world nowadays.
13:35:59 <sbp> "Positional placeholder names consisting of a single uppercase letter are disallowed, not because we're mean, but because it helps us catch references to obsolete Perl 5 variables such as $^O."
13:36:04 <Arnia> for a start, people post (to the publicly linked web) photos of themselves having haircuts. Secondly, they do this *as they've having them*
13:36:13 <sbp> ehheh
13:36:19 <Arnia> Thirdly, I am aware of it.
13:36:44 <Arnia> The more I think about the Web, the more it leaves me dizzy with how much the world has changed as a result of its existence
13:37:34 <_ulises> the more i think about teh web the more i want to vomit
13:38:08 <_ulises> mainly because a snapshot of the web is a snapshot of us as a race (or a faction of us) and I'll tell you: it's not flattering
13:38:31 <sbp> yeah. though it's probably a case of the William Blake effect
13:38:39 <Arnia> I'm too misanthropic normally to be bothered by that
13:38:43 <sbp> Blake did much of his stunning work in really paltry personal conditions
13:39:03 <sbp> and people who visited were stunned that he could create such things in slovenly, or at least rather rudimentary, conditions
13:39:15 <sbp> what we have in the form of the web is the shared environmental space of humanity
13:39:19 <sbp> and yeah, it's kinda boring
13:39:29 <_ulises> what bothers me is that I can't stop watching this youtube clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YO3kVfgATE
13:39:34 <sbp> .title
13:39:35 <phenny> sbp: YouTube - Baila Sin Cesar
13:39:39 <Monty> We're having to dismiss my april fools on about it hurts, I *know* the statement in control.
13:44:47 <Arnia> I'm feeling worryingly generous today, and I'm going to say that great art comes as a result of being set against the dross of humanity, rather than in spite of it.
13:47:07 *** chris2 (n=chris@dslb-094-216-193-020.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #swhack
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14:03:18 * sbp found a bug in the synopses
14:03:43 <sbp> heh, and they've just fixed it already
14:06:44 *** lmorchard|away is now known as lmorchard
14:09:09 *** leobard (n=Miranda@dfki-046.dfki.uni-kl.de) has joined #swhack
14:09:10 <Monty> But what does leobard have to do with the price of fish?
14:11:37 *** Tene has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
14:13:27 <sbp> .title http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=64344
14:13:29 <phenny> sbp: #64344: empty signatures
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14:54:44 <[bjoern]> back
14:55:15 <[bjoern]> yeah testing is kinda the point
14:58:25 <MacTed> .gcs stateful state-ful state-full statefull
14:58:28 <phenny> state-full (254,000,000), state-ful (764,000), stateful (298,000), statefull (17,800)
14:58:56 <MacTed> grr. stupid google can't tell a space from a hyphen.
14:59:05 <MacTed> .gcs "state-full" "state full"
14:59:06 <phenny> "state-full" (42,700), "state full" (42,700)
14:59:39 <MacTed> and apparently lost 254,00,000 occurrences in under a minute
15:00:10 <nsh> .gc state full
15:00:10 <phenny> state full: 220,000,000
15:00:57 <nsh> google: not very precise
15:05:04 <clsn> Arnia, sbp: http://cagle.com/working/090330/sorenson.jpg (political cartoon)
15:05:10 <clsn> (well, not political really)
15:21:54 <nsh> many lulz in the direction of: http://achewood.com/index.php?date=03202009
15:34:28 <clsn> .c 1 degree latitude in miles
15:34:29 <phenny> clsn: Sorry, no result.
15:34:34 <clsn> .c 1 degree of latitude in miles
15:34:35 <phenny> clsn: Sorry, no result.
15:34:38 <clsn> Ohwell.
15:36:56 <[bjoern]> So slightly adapted my code so 0 is the final state, decoding 117 mb of hiwiki-latest-pages-articles.xml takes ~840ms (after reading file to memory of course)
15:37:26 <[bjoern]> .c 117261047 byte over 840ms
15:37:27 <phenny> (117 261 047 byte) over (840 milliseconds) = 133.129582 MBps
15:38:11 <[bjoern]> instead of printing the code point I do
15:38:15 <[bjoern]> if (!stat) {
15:38:16 <[bjoern]> *unip = unic;
15:38:16 <[bjoern]> unic = 0;
15:38:16 <[bjoern]> }
15:38:34 <[bjoern]> so it reports the last code point to the caller. I've made sure that's not optimized out somehow.
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15:50:42 <sbp> spam subject news:
15:50:44 <sbp> "Obesity not only looks ugly, it is also very dangerous for your health"
15:51:00 <sbp> clsn: heh, heh
15:51:30 <clsn> .c radius of earth in miles
15:51:30 <phenny> radius of Earth = 3 963.1676 miles
15:51:50 <[bjoern]> pondering how to make a proper performance comparison to other decoders
15:52:06 <[bjoern]> could perhaps make a iconv like tool and compare to pconv, uconv, iconv, ...
15:52:26 <[bjoern]> transcoding to utf-32 > /dev/null perhaps
15:56:32 *** appletizer (i=user@82-32-123-217.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #swhack
15:58:10 <[bjoern]> "The new step taken by Microsoft IE team that is not to show the address of selected link in a status bar can have a serious impact." orly!
16:00:13 <[bjoern]> "Since I have the attention span of woah, Britney Spears just ate an entire bowl of rusty nails on live TV."
16:02:27 <sbp> [bjoern]: sounds good to me
16:02:36 <[bjoern]> which one!
16:02:59 <sbp> <[bjoern]> could perhaps make a iconv like tool and compare to pconv, uconv, iconv, ...
16:03:06 <sbp> only that idea. no other ideas must be included
16:03:10 <aspect> .c circumference of earth in miles
16:03:11 <phenny> aspect: Sorry, no result.
16:03:36 <[bjoern]> it has more than one aspect
16:03:41 <aspect> .c pi*(radius of earth in miles)^2
16:03:41 <phenny> aspect: Sorry, no result.
16:03:42 <sbp> .c Sir Cumfle Pants covers the earth in smiles
16:03:43 <phenny> sbp: Sorry, no result.
16:03:59 <aspect> [bjoern]: indeed, I was curious what it would report
16:04:10 <sbp> it has more than one radius too
16:04:24 <[bjoern]> .g pi times (radius of earth)^2
16:04:25 <phenny> [bjoern]: http://in.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090226055148AAkU5q4
16:04:28 <[bjoern]> .c pi times (radius of earth)^2
16:04:28 <phenny> pi times (radius of Earth^2) = 1.27800491e14 m2
16:04:35 <sbp> .c pi*(radius of earth)^2 in miles
16:04:36 <phenny> sbp: Sorry, no result.
16:04:48 <sbp> .c pi*(radius of earth^2) in miles
16:04:48 <phenny> sbp: Sorry, no result.
16:04:49 <aspect> .c pi * (radius of earth)^2 in km
16:04:49 <phenny> aspect: Sorry, no result.
16:04:55 <[bjoern]> if you squre a distance you don't get a distance
16:04:59 <clsn> Not showing the address of a selected link? Bad. I rely on that.
16:05:00 <aspect> wacky calc
16:05:03 <sbp> you get a squistance
16:05:18 <aspect> good point
16:05:25 <aspect> .c pi * (radius of earth)^2
16:05:26 <phenny> pi * (radius of Earth^2) = 1.27800491e14 m2
16:05:28 <[bjoern]> onclick=document.location.href=elsewhere href=there
16:05:40 <[bjoern]> perhaps with a return false somewhere in there...
16:05:45 <clsn> So that's 1/4 the area of the Earth...
16:06:13 <clsn> [bjoern]: Yeah, I know, you can't REALLY trust it. It's still staggeringly useful, when people aren't actually trying to *trick* you.
16:06:26 <[bjoern]> knol first shows me the page, then overlays it all with "Ein Fehler ist aufgetreten. Es sind technische Schwierigkeiten aufgetreten. Wir bedauern die Unannehmlichkeiten. Bitte versuchen Sie es später erneut."
16:06:34 <clsn> (surface area of a sphere = 4πr²
16:06:35 <clsn> )
16:06:42 <[bjoern]> http://knol.google.com/k/jens-minor/google-calculator/2ynhqjb32rnw8/5# came up in google results
16:06:54 <[bjoern]> dunno whatup with fucked url
16:07:57 <[bjoern]> doesnt even list phi
16:08:16 <sbp> NOT EVEN PHI
16:08:23 <sbp> .gc phinary
16:08:23 <phenny> phinary: 191
16:08:33 *** lmorchard is now known as lmorchard|away
16:09:00 <aspect> .c 10000 km / 90 in miles
16:09:00 <phenny> (10 000 kilometers) / 90 = 69.0412436 miles
16:11:02 <aspect> I hope phinary comes up in project euler at some point .. I'm curious but insufficiently motivated to explore it further
16:13:28 <sbp> someone should create an editor that lets you switch between configuration profiles easily
16:13:37 <sbp> I want a profile for editing code and a profile for editing prose at least
16:13:42 <sbp> and of course I don't mean a term editor
16:14:00 <sbp> ideally, for prose you want text justification even in editing
16:14:10 <sbp> and you don't want it to go up to the border; you want some padding
16:16:01 <nslater> sbp: my emacs does that
16:16:23 <nslater> sbp: i have different modes/settings/profiles for different types of file or locations on the filesystem
16:16:50 <sbp> emacs is a term editor
16:16:52 <nslater> sbp: so, for example... editing files under the o'reilly dir on my site puts me in american english, removes word wrapping, changes out a few other settins, etc etc
16:17:06 <nslater> and the same files under my tumbolia.org dir, completely different profile
16:17:10 <nslater> so what?
16:17:16 <nslater> 17:13 < sbp> and of course I don't mean a term editor
16:17:27 <nslater> heh, but emacs does gui stuff dunnit?
16:17:44 <sbp> yeah, but there isn't a good emacs GUI that I've seen so far
16:17:48 <sbp> on either Linux or OS X
16:17:54 <sbp> including Xemacs...
16:18:02 <nslater> doesn't os x have a custom build specifically for that?
16:18:07 <sbp> there are several
16:18:13 <nslater> anyway, whats wrong with editing in a terminal?
16:18:23 <sbp> terminal: no proportional text
16:18:36 <sbp> no mouse select and delete
16:18:37 <nslater> im sure Terminal.app would let you do it
16:18:38 <aspect> proportional fonts are for printing
16:18:42 <nslater> and emacs DOES have mouse support
16:18:45 <sbp> and for reading
16:19:03 <aspect> but not editing, that's just obscene
16:19:06 <sbp> in Terminal.app? out of the box?
16:19:12 <sbp> you don't read what you edit?
16:19:14 <nslater> which bit? proportional fonts?
16:19:20 <sbp> nslater: mouse
16:19:23 <nslater> emacs has mouse selection support
16:19:27 <nslater> ... never used it, but i know it exists
16:19:31 <nslater> .g emacs wiki mouse
16:19:32 <phenny> nslater: http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/MouseAvoidance
16:19:36 <nslater> hehe, no
16:19:40 <nslater> .g emacs wiki mouse selection
16:19:41 <phenny> nslater: http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/follow-mouse.el
16:19:45 <sbp> so it's not definitely out of the box?
16:19:55 <nslater> its just a configuration setting or some such
16:19:57 <nslater> not an el file
16:20:08 <nslater> dunno, ask in #emacs
16:20:26 <Morbus> sbp: ping.
16:20:28 <nslater> .g emacs wiki mouse enable
16:20:28 <phenny> nslater: http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/follow-mouse.el
16:20:29 <sbp> also, emacs is shite at unicode
16:20:31 <sbp> Morbus: yo
16:20:34 <Morbus> sbp: APRIL FOOLS. HAH. IT WAS AS FUNNY AS ALL THE OTHER ONES.
16:20:39 <nslater> sbp: eh? i use it for unicode without any problems foo'
16:20:45 <sbp> Morbus: actually it was a little bit funnier
16:20:53 <jsled> emacs 22 is gtk based, and faces support proportional fonts.
16:21:05 <clsn> Emacs has gotten better at unicode in my experience.
16:21:18 <nslater> like i said, it works perfectly for me with unicode
16:21:28 <sbp> jsled: does it also support justification of proportional fonts with margins?
16:21:28 <clsn> Has a buncha input methods too.
16:21:29 <nslater> M-x ucs-insert is a dream too
16:21:30 <jsled> yeah, here too.
16:22:36 <sbp> jsled: DOES IT>
16:22:43 <nslater> SHITYES>
16:22:46 <sbp> hehe
16:22:47 <jsled> sbp: I'm sure it could be coaxed into that.
16:23:13 <sbp> I remember I used some gtk or somesuch emacs on Linux
16:23:22 <sbp> and the default settings were *absolutely hideous*
16:23:29 <sbp> I mean the worst possible defaults they could have thought of
16:23:31 <nslater> hehe
16:23:37 <sbp> so I spent ages crafting some configuration file to fix it
16:23:47 <[bjoern]> mingw-gcc and cygwin-gcc both produce slower code. reading the file takes twice as long with cygwin-gcc than with the others...
16:24:03 <sbp> and what happened is: whenever you loaded it, it would come up in the default hideous way, and then it would slowly apply the stuff from the configuration file
16:24:15 <nslater> heh
16:24:17 <sbp> and it still sucked even then
16:24:27 <nslater> maybe you should try again...
16:24:36 <sbp> well I actually kinda hate emacs anyway
16:24:40 <nslater> :(
16:24:46 <sbp> it was written in the 1980s. people don't seem to realise anymore
16:24:54 <nslater> that's unfare :)
16:24:59 <sbp> I do use it many times per day
16:25:07 <sbp> but it is actually kinda shit
16:25:20 * nslater is close to emoparting
16:25:48 <sbp> well the design from the base up is terrible
16:25:56 <nslater> *la la la la*
16:26:06 <sbp> example: it uses its own grotesque dialect of lisp
16:26:28 <sbp> unicode support, even if it's improving, had to be "bolted on"
16:26:42 <sbp> internally it still uses some weird assed format
16:26:43 <nslater> actually, i think it's unicode all the way down now
16:26:50 <sbp> oh yeah/
16:26:54 <sbp> man, my shift key
16:26:56 <nslater> yeah, thats what i think
16:27:01 <nslater> ... i do that all the teim too/
16:27:13 <sbp> yeah, but I'm actually hitting my shift key...
16:27:16 <nslater> mule was the unicode bolt on stuff, but i think they rewrote it
16:27:16 <sbp> I think it's getting sticky
16:27:29 <nslater> in the core, that is
16:27:34 <nslater> dunno, prolly just making shit up as usual
16:27:37 * clsn experiments with emacs and proportional spacing; I never tried that before.
16:27:43 <sbp> alright, alright, I'll try to download one of the OS X emacs GUI editors
16:27:49 <sbp> expect criticism
16:29:48 <sbp> hehe: 'It runs on OS X 10.4 ("Tiger") and above (and possibly Panther)'
16:29:54 <sbp> — http://emacs-app.sourceforge.net/
16:29:56 <sbp> nice confidence there
16:30:22 * clsn finds that "justified" with proportional fonts does not actually mean justified. However, it may well be due to misconfiguration of the font on my end.
16:30:32 <sbp> okay, I'll just try Aquamacs and Carbon Emacs
16:31:00 <sbp> Aquamacs first, downloading
16:31:01 <Morbus> sbp
16:31:10 <Morbus> NP: 'You Can Get Away With Anything' from Andrew Lloyd Webber's album 'The Woman In White: 2004 Original London Cast Recording'; Rating: 4/5; http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00068V3B6/disobeycom/
16:31:14 <Morbus> ^^ that song is *great*.
16:31:16 <Morbus> want a copy?
16:31:20 <sbp> hehe. yes please...
16:31:45 <Morbus> http://feast-or-fa.mine.nu:325/~morbus/The%20Woman%20In%20White-212-You%20Can%20Get%20Away%20With%20Anything.mp3
16:31:53 <Morbus> get it and we'll queue it together.
16:31:55 * Morbus waits.
16:32:17 <sbp> it's going to be a few minutes
16:32:24 <sbp> since I'm also megasucking Aquamacs
16:32:25 <Morbus> fucking technology
16:33:51 <sbp> got it
16:34:03 <Morbus> 5!
16:34:13 <Morbus> 4!
16:34:38 <sbp> u countdown quicker pls pls
16:34:39 * Morbus frowns.
16:34:41 <Morbus> oh.
16:34:45 <sbp> heh, heh
16:34:46 <Morbus> i was waiting for you to come back.
16:34:49 <sbp> ohsry
16:34:49 <Morbus> 3!
16:34:50 <Morbus> 2!
16:34:54 <Morbus> 1!
16:34:54 <Morbus> !
16:35:04 <sbp> flutes and wind instruments and shit
16:35:07 * Morbus dances a little ditty.
16:35:22 <sbp> IT'S TTIME TO FLY TYEH COOPS MY DOVES!
16:35:28 <sbp> some Italian dude
16:35:35 <sbp> who was obviously raised in Yorkshire
16:35:35 <Morbus> 37s
16:35:44 <Morbus> 49
16:35:44 <sbp> yeah, we're about synced
16:35:48 <Morbus> k
16:35:53 <sbp> yeah, very close
16:35:53 <Morbus> slow start, but wait for it.
16:35:57 <sbp> heh
16:36:05 <Morbus> right around now.
16:36:12 <sbp> to gloat...
16:36:14 <sbp> BOOM
16:36:16 <sbp> blomp blomp
16:36:16 <sbp> BOOM
16:36:17 <sbp> blomp blomp
16:36:19 <sbp> BOOM
16:36:20 <sbp> blomp blomp
16:36:30 *** pierpa has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:36:33 * Morbus continues danceing.
16:36:34 <sbp> heh, little audience laugh there?
16:36:37 <Morbus> yeah.
16:36:38 <Morbus> live show.
16:36:42 <sbp> cool
16:36:59 <Morbus> i admit that i'm a criminal..>>.
16:37:02 * Morbus grins.
16:37:08 <Morbus> can bungle it sometime, la la
16:37:14 <sbp> scraaaipe
16:37:20 <Morbus> ESScappPe
16:37:23 <sbp> heh, heh
16:37:24 <Monty> Banking always comes as %2F. One special case by doing a concept, and eros. does for trapping spam
16:37:55 <sbp> farcinous and larcinous? oh man, what a rhyme
16:38:04 * Morbus grins!
16:38:13 <Morbus> 3:18
16:38:37 <sbp> one must be something of a bounder / if one intends to play this game
16:38:39 <Morbus> here it comes, here it comes...
16:38:44 <Morbus> 3:49
16:38:47 <Morbus> ooOOooOooOoo
16:38:49 <Morbus> oooOoOOoOooO
16:38:51 <Morbus> oOoOOoOOoOo
16:38:52 <Morbus> OoOOooOoo
16:38:54 <Morbus> OoOooOOoO
16:38:55 <Morbus> OooOOo
16:38:57 <Morbus> oOOooO
16:38:58 <Morbus> OooOOo
16:38:59 <Morbus> OooOO
16:39:00 <Morbus> oOOo
16:39:01 <Morbus> OooO
16:39:04 <Morbus> shame!
16:39:05 <sbp> noOOooooooOoOOoooo oo oOoooooooooooOOoooooooooooooooooooOooooooooooooooOoooooooooooooooOOOooOoooOooOOOoo.... SHAAaAaaaaaaaMNE!
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16:39:07 <sbp> hehe
16:39:07 <Morbus> wait for it
16:39:08 <Morbus> wait for it.
16:39:11 <sbp> yeah, that was gr... oh?
16:39:14 * Morbus dances ditty.
16:39:18 * Morbus grins.
16:39:36 <Morbus> steal a last encore.
16:39:37 <Morbus> *great*
16:39:55 <Morbus> No onoONo NOOn OnOO nOo NO ooOoOOo!
16:39:56 <sbp> (was this the encore?)
16:40:01 <Morbus> (y)
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16:40:30 <sbp> no no no no n oooo
16:40:31 <sbp> shame!
16:40:31 <Morbus> *awesome*
16:40:36 <Morbus> what'd you think?
16:40:42 <sbp> yeah, good stuff
16:40:48 <sbp> what's the rest of the show like?
16:40:49 <[bjoern]> 6% speed gain if I replace stat = d2[ (stat << 4) | type ]; by stat = d2[ (stat * 13) | type ]; in msvc; also makes the d2 table smaller...
16:40:51 <sbp> got the video too?
16:40:56 <Morbus> no, just the show.
16:41:21 <Morbus> there's only one other song from the album i rated as 4.
16:41:25 <Morbus> but that's kinda typical with my ratings.
16:41:32 <Morbus> it's gotta be really good, to me, just to get 4.
16:41:45 <Morbus> 24789 songs in ituns.
16:41:45 <[bjoern]> (that's 840ms -> 790ms; in mingw-gcc that change makes it go from 990ms -> 690ms)
16:41:47 <sbp> do you have criteria for each star?
16:41:53 <Morbus> 1439 songs 4+ or higher.
16:42:00 <Morbus> 319 songs 5
16:42:04 <Morbus> pretty tough
16:42:12 <Morbus> i only rate 4 or 5 stars.
16:42:18 <Morbus> i see no need to rate my indifference to a song.
16:42:24 <sbp> yeah, I recall
16:42:34 <sbp> but those that get a 4 or 5, are there criteria for each star?
16:42:35 <[bjoern]> also, the mingw-gcc version is buggy now, returns the wong last code point
16:42:58 <Morbus> well, 4 is "hey, i like this" and 5 tends to either be "man, this is great!" or "the more i listen, the better it gets".
16:43:02 <Morbus> like, this song was a 4.
16:43:06 <[bjoern]> must be some switch enabled by -O3, does not happen with -O2
16:43:07 <Morbus> i've heard it twice in two days.
16:43:11 <Morbus> and i've just swithed it to 5.
16:43:24 <Morbus> .c 24789 / 1439
16:43:25 <phenny> 24 789 / 1 439 = 17.2265462
16:43:38 <Morbus> .c 24789 / 1439 * 100
16:43:38 <phenny> (24 789 / 1 439) * 100 = 1 722.65462
16:43:54 <Morbus> .c 1439 / 24789
16:43:54 <phenny> 1 439 / 24 789 = 0.0580499415
16:43:56 <Morbus> there we go.
16:44:04 <Morbus> heh. less than half a percent of songs.
16:44:16 <[bjoern]> hmm hmm
16:44:16 <Morbus> .c 1439 / 24789 * 100
16:44:17 <phenny> (1 439 / 24 789) * 100 = 5.80499415
16:44:21 <Morbus> nevermind. 5%.
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16:45:43 <nslater> sbp: as well as propotionate and monospace fonts, i think we should have moonspace
16:46:23 <sbp> mooonspace!
16:46:46 <sbp> okay, Aquamacs comes with proportional font by default
16:46:56 <sbp> looking for an option to justify text
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16:48:49 * sbp sets an option that looks relevant, finds it doesn't do anything
16:53:17 <sbp> infuriating, infuriating user interface
16:54:34 <sbp> also top tabs just don't work in gui editors, you really need to be using a side-tray
16:54:53 <sbp> (you don't need much width in an editor, so you can use the surplus)
16:54:55 * clsn is tinkering with customizing emacs some right now too, and it IS annoying as hell. And I'm a HUGE emacs fan from way back.
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16:55:14 <sbp> at least it used my .emacs
16:55:16 <[bjoern]> okay was bugz, now got mingw and msvc ~ same speed
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16:55:47 <clsn> Yeah, my .emacs is large and complex and only a month or two ago I removed the functions that would send things to printers WHEN I WAS IN COLLEGE 20 YEARS AGO.
16:56:57 <sbp> chuckle
16:57:11 <sbp> "I only wanted to edit some text..."
16:59:31 <sbp> anyway, twenty minutes and I still don't know how to justify text in display
16:59:41 <sbp> even TextEdit has a justify text button on its toolbar...
17:02:17 <sbp> I also have the annoying feeling that because it looks nothing like the screenshots, it's using some settings I tinkered with when I tried it previously; and that if I base a new custom setting on these settings, it's just going to be double the work on a new computer
17:03:59 <clsn> emacs -q to ignore your .emacs file.
17:04:27 <sbp> well, I haven't even figured out how it integrates with the command line yet...
17:04:31 <clsn> so you can see how things would be if you hadn't screwed them up with your customization.
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17:10:12 <sbp> inference from screenshot, as I say
17:10:30 <sbp> not sure though
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17:23:24 <[bjoern]> using a very big table (2.5K, for each state,byte pair a mask,newstate pair) I go from ~850ms to ~650ms
17:24:08 <[bjoern]> I guess next version would use two tables, one for state map, one for mask lookup
17:26:02 *** lmorchard is now known as lmorchard|away
17:28:56 <sbp> I like how C-x C-c doesn't exit
17:29:00 <sbp> and how Command+Q doesn't Quit
17:29:09 <sbp> and how there's a menu entry for quit that doesn't have a binding
17:29:14 <[bjoern]> try :q!
17:29:33 <sbp> and how I had to answer two menus even then before it quit
17:29:43 *** lmorchard|away is now known as lmorchard
17:29:44 <sbp> (that was probably reasonable actually)
17:30:14 <[bjoern]> first times i tried emacs/xemacs I couldn't get it to work
17:30:32 <[bjoern]> or rather, later i learned i could, i just didn't realize that's supposed to be an editor.
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17:38:09 <xover> As clsn just established, Emacs is not an editor; it's a printer driver with support for cross-temporal print queues.
17:38:35 <sbp> yeah, emacs is a great operating system
17:38:42 <sbp> but I don't think much of its text editor
17:38:55 <bancus> That's okay. You can run vim in it.
17:38:57 <[bjoern]> down to 470ms in mingw-gcc, with one 2560byte table plus one 256byte table. That's about half of what we started with.
17:39:09 * sbp used to...
17:39:48 <[bjoern]> of course at this size, depending on what you do in addition to decoding, you might get cache misses for the table data
17:40:46 <cre8radix> sbp: ;P
17:41:19 <[bjoern]> could half them in size if I knew I good way to access arrays with 4 bit values...
17:41:33 <cre8radix> s
17:41:33 <cre8radix> c
17:41:34 <cre8radix> r
17:41:34 <cre8radix> †
17:41:34 <cre8radix> o
17:41:35 <cre8radix> s
17:41:36 <cre8radix> a
17:41:38 <cre8radix> u
17:41:40 <cre8radix> r
17:41:42 <cre8radix> u
17:41:44 <cre8radix> s
17:41:46 <cre8radix> r
17:41:48 <cre8radix> e
17:41:50 <cre8radix> x
17:41:52 <cre8radix> sbp: ^
17:42:40 <[bjoern]> scr†o?
17:42:48 <sbp> † = ipt?
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17:44:19 <cre8radix> ip
17:44:36 <cre8radix> i omitted intellectual property
17:44:40 <cre8radix> sbp: ^
17:44:49 <cre8radix> :D
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17:45:08 <cre8radix> my next audioplay is called iProperty
17:45:21 <[bjoern]> more like theirProperty.
17:46:02 *** kpreid (n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net) has joined #swhack
17:47:24 <sbp> [[[
17:47:25 <sbp> First off, unlike today's, you need a clear sense of purpose, or cause. When Emily Davison threw herself under the King's horse at the Epsom Derby The Times speculated that people would remember the race's dramatic finish for longer than her death. Wrong. Her protest became the most enduring image of the fight for women's suffrage.
17:47:31 <sbp> ]]] - The Times Archive Weblog
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17:49:26 <cre8radix> sbp: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ej-R1BVMNeA
17:49:29 <sbp> we only had to wait a hundred years for the correction!
17:49:39 <sbp> (one should note that Anmer was martyred too, of course)
17:49:43 <cre8radix> looks a little like the c-base
17:50:04 <sbp> (give it many more hundred for animal rights...)
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18:18:32 <nsh> nslater
18:18:35 <nsh> what you up to?
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18:27:34 <clsn> I note in passing that MySQL's Geometry support is the biggest crock of shit imaginable.
18:27:52 <[bjoern]> Geometry?
18:27:57 <[bjoern]> like math func in stdlib?
18:28:18 <[bjoern]> But then of course you wouldn't have cap'd it
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18:31:25 <jsled> Geo support?
18:32:11 <clsn> No... They have Geometry types. Like point and line and polygon as basic types, with operations you can do on them
18:32:13 <[bjoern]> Perhaps it's what you get when combining CouchDB with GNU Cash and Morbus.
18:32:23 <clsn> And you can make spatial indexes and all that fun stuff.
18:32:40 <clsn> But it is so bone-crunchingly difficult to use and accomplish anything with!
18:33:21 <clsn> OK, maybe I can forgive them for having a "binary" internal format and a "text" format for displaying that I have to change back and forth between. But there's a SECOND binary format, whose purpose eludes me, but which you have to jump in and out of anyway!
18:33:47 <[bjoern]> maybe one for storage, one for algorithms?
18:34:58 <[bjoern]> or maybe it's a web2.0 format if you want to twitter your spatial polys?
18:35:14 <clsn> It doesn't seem to be so. I can store in the one in which the algorithms supposedly happen. But I can only build things out of the other one.
18:36:00 <clsn> So if I have two point *objects* in my DB, in order to build a line between them and measure the length, I need to convert the points to WKB format (from the native geometry they're in), because the line constructor only takes WKBs.
18:36:18 <clsn> Then I have to convert the line back into geometry, since the length operator only operates on geometry objects.
18:36:22 <clsn> wtf?
18:37:21 <[bjoern]> select another database from the internet where geometry support is better than in mysql.
18:38:00 <[bjoern]> I was going for greater, but that'd have made it too obvious.
18:38:18 <Arnia> Write a database based on geometric algebra
18:38:26 <clsn> Which brings me back to my original point: MySQL Geometry support is a crock of shit.
18:38:26 <Monty> potty mouth!
18:38:47 <[bjoern]> Yeah, if you are doing it in Haskell or Prolog, I might just join your efforts.
18:39:18 <clsn> What the use of WKB is is more than I can fathom.
18:39:30 <[bjoern]> .g mysql wkb
18:39:31 <phenny> [bjoern]: http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/gis-wkb-format.html
18:39:47 <[bjoern]> "The Well-Known Binary (WKB) representation for geometric values is defined by the OpenGIS specification. It is also defined in the ISO SQL/MM Part 3: Spatial standard."
18:40:00 <[bjoern]> what's the other format?
18:40:24 <clsn> So it's some Standard Format. In which case, whynhell aren't they using THAT and their mystical Geometry format. It's only named their geometry format.
18:40:40 <[bjoern]> .g mysql geometry format
18:40:41 <phenny> [bjoern]: http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/functions-to-convert-geometries-between-formats.html
18:41:28 <clsn> There are lots of functions for that. It's the need for them that I can't follow.
18:42:20 <[bjoern]> examples for functions that take wkb/wkt other than conversion?
18:43:11 <clsn> linestring requires its arguments to be wkb points.
18:44:15 <[bjoern]> .g mysql geometry linestring
18:44:16 <phenny> [bjoern]: http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.1/en/geometry-property-functions.html
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18:45:36 <nsh_> loggy, pointer?
18:45:36 <loggy> http://swhack.com/logs/2009-04-01#T18-45-36
18:47:17 <nsh_> Arnia, can you elaborate on the geometrical database idea?
18:47:57 <Arnia> Do you know what Clifford or Grassman algebras are?
18:48:55 <nsh_> clifford algebra's are extensions of complex algebra to 2^n dimensions
18:49:20 <nsh_> mm, grassman algebra's are like that but noncomplex
18:49:24 <nsh_> or something like that
18:49:43 <nsh_> -i was just reading about them the other day :-/
18:50:58 <nsh_> oh right. grassman algebra's are degenerate clifford algebra's where the elements square to zero rather than -1
18:51:06 <nsh_> but the anticommutation relation still holds
18:52:22 <nsh_> eek, *grammar
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18:55:21 <Arnia> Yeah... well Clifford algebras are a bit more general than even that
18:55:58 <Charles> Hi Arnia, did you receive my question?
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18:56:06 <Monty> hi libby, how ya doing?
18:56:25 <Arnia> The commutation can be -1, 0 or 1, and the number of components with each sort determines the 'signature' of the Clifford algebra on the base field (usually the Reals)
18:58:10 <Arnia> For example, the complex numbers are the Clifford algebra Cl_0,1(R), the quaternions are Cl_0,2(R), the split-complexes are Cl_1,0(R) and the Minkowski space-time algebra of Special relativity is Cl_1,3(R)
18:58:46 <Arnia> Geometric algebra is Clifford algebra with heavy emphasis on the geometrical (rather than co-ordinate marking) properties of these systems
18:59:33 <Arnia> Charles: yes. Best bet is probably getting some books on construction grammars such as one of Langacker's or Adele Goldberg's
18:59:51 * nsh_ nods
19:01:09 <nsh_> so, in the notation Cl_n,m(F) F is the base field, n is the number of components with a negative-unitary commutation and m the number of components with a positive-unitary commutation?
19:01:54 *** lmorchard is now known as lmorchard|away
19:02:08 <Arnia> No, other way around
19:02:20 <Arnia> i^2 is -1 after all
19:02:33 <nsh_> right, makes more sense
19:03:02 <Arnia> That is debatable in the literature... but the system is the same no matter how we choose to label it
19:03:13 <Arnia> (it is just a flip around of terminology)
19:03:26 <sbp> fotbal!
19:03:29 <sbp> England vs. Ukraine
19:03:46 <nsh_> mmm
19:03:47 <Monty> other song is svn snapshot anyway so temporary, confusion and some stuff looks cool:
19:03:54 <Arnia> Anyway, the power of geometric algebra is that it avoids the need to special case each sort of geometric object or (worse) to need to convert between each sort and vectors to do anything
19:04:14 <Arnia> Which is why my interest was sparked by clsn's complaint about conversion between types
19:04:39 <nsh_> hrmm
19:05:16 <Arnia> Let us start with a simple example... imagine Flatland
19:05:40 <nsh_> there
19:05:58 <nsh_> hanging ten with A Square, esq.
19:06:17 <Arnia> What geometric primitives exist in Flatland? Well, there is the point. This can be viewed as a 0-dimensional subspace of the plane that Flatland lives in.
19:06:42 <Arnia> There is also the vector, which describes a line, and is a 1-dimensional subspace of Flatland's plane.
19:06:43 * nsh_ makes no quiddities about flatland *being* the plane
19:06:56 <Arnia> Finally there is the plane itself
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19:07:17 <Arnia> Now, what operations can we perform on these types?
19:07:23 <thelsdj> Have you tried INTERCAL?
19:07:41 <nsh_> Arnia, lots
19:08:03 <Arnia> Being geometry, we first make the requirement that our system is linear
19:08:04 <Monty> .
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19:08:19 <nsh_> i'm not sure i understand the requirement
19:08:40 <Arnia> Linearity is a requirement for symmetry preservation, which is what geometry is about
19:09:07 <sbp> "you're never quite the same when you've been with Ally McCoist"
19:09:11 <sbp> — commentator
19:09:24 <Arnia> If we allow non-linear operators we end up with topology instead
19:09:33 <Arnia> (roughly, this is very much at the intuitive level...)
19:09:44 <nsh_> hrmm
19:10:22 <Arnia> nsh_: just go with it, it gives us the group theory we need to do geometric (measuring) calculations
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19:10:45 <nsh_> ok
19:10:58 <clsn> Nonlinear ops make vectors get all stretchy and twisty, losing the rigid plane feel.
19:11:06 <Arnia> clsn: quite
19:11:07 <nsh_> though i'm sure if you made this into a database, you'd want to be able to define nonlinear operators on objects
19:11:30 <Arnia> nsh_: you can define non-linear functions... but I'm talking about the algebra's core operators here
19:11:36 <nsh_> oh, ok
19:11:47 <clsn> If you did, though, you would be using those objects not as geometric objects embedded in boring old Euclidean space, though.
19:11:59 <clsn> (which you might want to do occasionally)
19:12:41 * nsh_ nods
19:13:14 <Arnia> Anyway, so you have an operator we shall call 'addition' and it shall behave, intuitively, much the same way as addition does over any other mathematical object: componentwise, commutative, having an inverse, associative, distributive laws etc.
19:13:36 <Arnia> Now, what can you do with two points of a certain 'mass'?
19:13:49 <Arnia> You can not only add them, you can multiply them
19:14:05 <Arnia> Let us denote that operator as .
19:14:31 <nsh_> mass?!
19:14:40 <Arnia> Now, given a vector and a scalar, and given we're assuming geometry here, we can multiply a point by a vector
19:14:47 <Arnia> nsh_: magnitude
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19:15:04 * nsh_ furrows brow
19:15:23 <Arnia> I'm trying to convey that points do not have intrinsic location, being 0 dimensional, but only the location determined by their embedding in the higher-dimensional space
19:15:36 <nsh_> you mean a [point representing a] vector with a certain magnitude?
19:15:42 <Arnia> No
19:15:44 *** chris2 (n=chris@dslb-094-216-193-020.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #swhack
19:15:47 <Arnia> A point. No location
19:15:49 <Arnia> No direction
19:15:52 <nsh_> ok
19:15:58 <Arnia> and 'size' would make you think they're not just 0-dimensional
19:16:13 <clsn> point is a scalar, but could be any scalar.
19:16:20 <Arnia> Yeah
19:16:35 <nsh_> alright
19:17:14 <Arnia> We can also (and though it seems like an abuse of notation at the moment, it isn't) denote the 'multiplication' of a vector by a point by '.'
19:18:05 <Arnia> We can multiply two vectors together to give a point. We can also multiply two vectors together to give an 'area'
19:18:56 <Arnia> Given we're working in the Euclidian plane, there is only one plane this area can be in and so it doesn't have direction either; just magnitude
19:19:41 <nsh_> hmm
19:19:52 <Arnia> However, the basis element of 'area' is *not* the same as the basis element for scalars. It is often termed a 'pseudoscalar'
19:20:11 <Arnia> And, and this is where the beauty begins, it is often denoted 'i'
19:20:33 <Arnia> The reason? For Euclidian space, i^2 = -1
19:20:59 <clsn> Have you defined multiplying pseudoscalars?
19:21:25 <Arnia> actually, I've skipped two big steps there, but I wanted to give some idea where we're heading
19:21:38 <sbp> Strudelberg
19:21:39 <clsn> OK. I may be out a bit, I'll read backscroll.
19:21:47 <clsn> .wik struldbrug
19:21:48 <phenny> "In Jonathan Swift's novel Gulliver's Travels, the name Struldbrug is given to those humans in the nation of Luggnagg who are born seemingly normal, but are in fact immortal." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Struldbrug
19:21:54 <Arnia> That square isn't a square on the inner product '.' but on a more nuanced beast called the 'geometric product' which I'm working towards defining.
19:24:08 *** peartizer (i=user@82-46-30-114.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #swhack
19:24:18 <Arnia> Now the inner product on the Euclidian plane is pretty common knowledge, but it can be generalised
19:24:27 <sbp> .gcs appletizer peartizer peachtizer
19:24:28 <phenny> appletizer (9,240), peartizer (616), peachtizer (1)
19:25:06 <peartizer> .gcs appletiser peartiser grapetiser
19:25:07 <phenny> appletiser (27,500), grapetiser (961), peartiser (538)
19:25:10 <peartizer> aw :)
19:25:31 <nsh_> hmm
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19:27:51 <Arnia> To see how, we need to take a brief tour of the so-called 'outer' or 'wedge' product (the name wedge product comes, I believe, solely from the symbol used to denote it; the wedge of conjunction ∧)
19:28:49 * nsh_ nods
19:28:49 <Arnia> Now, any n-dimensional Euclidian vector space can be described as the linear combination of n basis vectors.
19:28:51 <sbp> The Wedge of Conjunction
19:28:57 <nsh_> note this
19:29:49 <Arnia> From herein I will denote basis vectors by e_1, ..., e_n
19:31:06 <Arnia> So, assume we have a basis e_1, e_2 for our Euclidian space (which basis we choose is irrelevant). We know there is an inner, or dot, product '.' which gives the following results:
19:31:52 <Arnia> a.(b_1e_1 + b_2e_2) = (ab_1)e_1 + (ab_2)e_2
19:31:59 <nsh_> hrm
19:32:18 <sbp> yay, goal
19:32:23 <sbp> England 1-0 Ukraine
19:32:26 <nsh_> ++
19:32:28 <Arnia> (in this and the following lowercase latin letters from the start of the alphabet will denote scalars)
19:32:36 <Arnia> a.b = ab
19:32:45 <sbp> bwahaha, Crouch just pulled the rope
19:32:46 <nsh_> right
19:33:00 <nsh_> they're playing football in a massive boxing ring!?
19:33:12 <sbp> cf. the sketch they did for Comic Relief
19:33:33 <Arnia> (a_1e_1 + a_2e_2) . (b_1e_1 + b_2e_2) = (a_1b_1)e_1 + (a_2b_2)e_2
19:34:22 <Arnia> a.(bi) = (ab)i
19:34:45 <Arnia> (ai).(bi) = ab
19:35:17 * nsh_ frowns
19:35:36 <sbp> how is b.(ab)bi maed?
19:35:48 <nsh_> ++
19:35:51 <Arnia> It isn't multiplication exactly, it is one of *two* analogues
19:36:08 <Arnia> One is symmetric, one is antisymmetric
19:36:10 *** MoiraA (n=moira@pdpc/supporter/active/moiraa) has joined #swhack
19:36:16 <Arnia> Inner product is symmetric
19:36:47 <[bjoern]> .c 40 in octal
19:36:47 <phenny> 40 = 0o50
19:37:01 <Arnia> Outer product is antisymmetric. The geometric product — which is the motivation for all this work now — is neither, but it *is* invertible
19:37:42 *** kpreid (n=kpreid@216-171-189-59.northland.net) has joined #swhack
19:38:45 <Arnia> Now, the most important defining property of the outer product is the following: a∧b = -b∧a
19:38:50 <[bjoern]> .c 0o77
19:38:51 <phenny> [bjoern]: Sorry, no result.
19:38:53 <[bjoern]> .c 0o77 in decimal
19:38:54 <phenny> 0o77 = 63
19:39:46 <Arnia> Uh, a and b there can denote any scalar, vector or what have you
19:40:03 <Arnia> From this you can prove that x∧x = 0
19:40:14 <nsh_> so the outer product gives a [hyper]planar section with orientation (the order of the operands)
19:40:15 <sbp> The Wedge of Conjunction!
19:40:56 <nsh_> but why is the inner product needed in the geometric product? to give the [hyper]planar section a magnitude?
19:41:17 <nsh_> wouldn't the coefficients of the outer product give some kind of magnitude anyway?
19:41:22 <sbp> you know, this conversation is bizarrely similar to #perl6 conversations
19:41:25 <Arnia> nsh_: roughly, yes, although for various reasons you shouldn't get too attached to the notion of it being a 'hyperplanar section'... it is better to just think of it as an abstract index, with some relationships between indices.
19:41:39 <nsh_> sbp, i can imagine
19:41:46 * sbp wonders how much advanced mathematical thought is behind perl6
19:41:51 <sbp> (almost certainly quite a lot)
19:42:09 <nsh_> about 1.7 pizzeria-decades i'd warrant
19:42:24 <Arnia> Hm. You know what, I think I'd best leave this to http://www.jaapsuter.com/paper/ga_primer.pdf
19:42:34 <nsh_> mmm, i could sure use a pizzeria-quarter-hour right now
19:42:45 <nsh_> Arnia, oh ok
19:42:52 <Arnia> I've suddenly come over mildly feverish again
19:42:57 <sbp> Arnia: erk
19:43:01 <nsh_> but i wanted you to explain why areas are like i
19:43:03 <Arnia> and I think my coherency is about to plummet and I don't want to confuse you further :/
19:43:14 <nsh_> ok, i'll newb at you later then
19:43:23 <Arnia> nsh_: that is explained in that primer very well
19:43:29 <sbp> nsh_: got pointer to general area of discussion?
19:43:29 <nsh_> ok, cool
19:43:35 <sbp> then I can bone up for resumption
19:44:06 <nsh_> sbp, arnia was explaining geometrical algebra, which came in conversation after clsn complained that mysql handles geometry realbadnao
19:44:36 <sbp> ah, okay, I'll check check the backscroll then
19:44:36 <Arnia> I believe geometric algebra would provide a nice abstraction for geometric databases
19:44:41 <nsh_> and arnia suggested a database built using the framework of geometrical algebra to handle geometrical objects in a more type-free manner
19:45:01 <Arnia> not type-free... type-general
19:45:03 <[bjoern]> .c 12*3 + 9*2
19:45:03 <phenny> (12 * 3) + (9 * 2) = 54
19:45:07 <nsh_> (though the objects would still have some intrinsic "grade", which would affect--
19:45:08 <nsh_> oh, ok
19:45:24 <sbp> okay, I see
19:45:34 <nsh_> anyway, i read primer funtime nao
19:45:53 <sbp> so basically, sorta like the relationship that object orientation stands to having native types; have that sort of relationship between this and the current native approach to geometry?
19:46:06 <Arnia> In that we don't need lots of specific types, we can use a very general type that subsumes all these odd notions
19:47:02 <nsh_> hrmm
19:47:34 <Arnia> and the types do not even need to be dimension specific... you can use a single very general framework for handling everything from lines in 2D space to 'cuboids' in 4D space and beyond
19:47:59 <Arnia> and all the standard geometric functions like rotation, reflection, translation, scaling
19:48:40 <nsh_> oh, arnia, had a thought today while reading a book on mathematical reasoning: proof-folding -- consideration of deductive chains in analogy to animo-acid chains which under folding into a final active conformation bring together various logical components into a "locallised" active site
19:48:58 <nsh_> arnia: along with ideas such as conserved domains in proofs, homologies, etc.
19:49:25 <clsn> Speaking of geometry, help me visualize just what violence I've perpetrated on these points...
19:49:35 *** eel (n=PircBot@216-171-189-59.northland.net) has joined #swhack
19:49:35 <nsh_> then you could do all kinds of nice visualisations and such
19:49:38 <Arnia> What would an active site correspond to?
19:50:00 <clsn> Arnia: probably the conclusion you're proving.
19:50:06 <sbp> HT
19:50:17 <nsh_> well, roughly to the implication being proved
19:50:41 <clsn> OK... So I have a bunch of points on the earth's surface, by specified by latitude and longitude.
19:50:44 <nsh_> as in proofs you generally have to take a lot of intermediary steps which are not necessarily "part" of the implication, but are required to bring parts of the proof together
19:50:54 <Arnia> If you're doing this on the basis of concepts invoked fine; but in most (not all) logics a loop of proof steps can be excised
19:51:00 <sbp> I'm not sure it'd work that way, because a proof is basically an attentional structure
19:51:08 <Arnia> So if you end up back where you started, that loop can be simply cut out
19:51:27 * sbp thinks about it
19:51:29 <nsh_> hmm
19:51:37 <Arnia> (assuming the points are sentences here)
19:51:42 <clsn> No, not a loop like that. But you need a whole mess of amino acids (propositions) to get the concepts into place to line up into your active region (hypothesis)
19:51:50 <nsh_> right
19:51:59 <clsn> Sometimes seeming to wander far afield.
19:52:14 <Arnia> ok, that's fine. Just wanted to make clear what the chain was
19:52:30 <nsh_> the chains wander out and back in but are required logically to bring the catalytic components into proximity
19:52:34 <Arnia> It isn't an actual proof then; merely a linear ordering of proof steps
19:52:49 <nsh_> you might have to explaint hat
19:52:50 <nsh_> *that
19:53:02 <Arnia> Ok. Well it is a difference of intent
19:53:07 <nsh_> is the proof independent of the ordering of its steps somehow?
19:53:22 <sbp> to fold an amino-acid chain, you already have the constituent parts
19:53:27 <nsh_> i always (naively) equated the proof to the progression of its steps
19:53:27 <sbp> you're just folding stuff
19:53:29 <Arnia> No, but it is what the pearls strung out along the line represent that is important
19:53:42 <nsh_> oh right
19:53:48 <sbp> with a proof, think how many ways you can prove a thing
19:53:51 <Arnia> If they're whole theories, then you can excise loops.
19:54:00 <clsn> I convert a (lat,long) location into an approximate cartesian location by converting the lat/long into miles: a degree of latitude is about 69 miles, and a degree of longitude is 2πR·cos(Lat) miles, where R is the radius of the earth. The distance from the prime meridian I guess.
19:54:02 <Arnia> If they're merely propositions used at a point, then you can't
19:54:11 <sbp> (can you fold proteins and amino-acids in more than one way to be active?)
19:54:17 <nsh_> sbp, yes
19:54:18 <Arnia> A 'proof system' consists of the former
19:54:28 <Arnia> What you're describing is the latter
19:54:35 *** MoiraA has quit (Connection timed out)
19:54:48 <nsh_> sbp ,that's how prions cause CJD (by changing the conformation of a protein)
19:54:51 * sbp continues to consider the metaphor
19:54:59 <clsn> (or so they suspect.)
19:55:05 * nsh_ nods
19:55:22 <nsh_> Arnia, right, i meant propositions
19:55:30 <sbp> the problem, I think, is that a proof doesn't change a system
19:55:32 <clsn> Though are the prions actually active? I suppose you have to consider them so, because they convert other proteins to prions.
19:55:37 <Arnia> sbp: exactly
19:55:45 <nsh_> well...
19:55:51 <Arnia> sbp: proof steps in a proof system are truth preserving
19:55:57 <Arnia> That is their definition
19:56:24 <nsh_> but what is true and what has been demonstrated are not identitcal
19:56:26 <nsh_> *identical
19:56:36 <clsn> So my question is, just what have I done to these points here? How is the end-result distorted? In particular, are euclidean distances between the transformed points ok approximations for the actual distances? Presumably only when the distances are small compared to R... right?
19:56:44 <nsh_> so proofs affect the truths known to the system
19:56:45 <Arnia> (the system of truth used may vary wildly, as might the notion of process or proposition but what makes it a logic is the fact that truth is preserved by a proof step)
19:56:54 <Arnia> nsh_: that's not the same thing
19:57:05 <clsn> I wonder they look when graphed out, and I'm not picturing it well. I know I'm talking a completely different idea across your conversation. :) Oops.
19:57:12 <[bjoern]> lisppaste2: url?
19:57:12 <lisppaste2> To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/swhack and enter your paste.
19:57:20 <Arnia> nsh_: you're talking about partiality, which is a big deal, but it doesn't alter the ideal model which is what a proof system is
19:57:38 <nsh_> clsn, you want to know what projection you're making of the sphere?
19:57:49 <clsn> nsh_: Basically, yeah/
19:57:49 <Arnia> (not a proof method, or a proof tool, I'm talking about the abstraction these more concrete things claim to aspire to)
19:58:07 <lisppaste2> [bjoern] annotated #77871 "slightly twiddled version" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77871#1
19:58:17 <clsn> What projection do I wind up with?
19:58:27 <nsh_> clsn, sounds like a job for maple or something
19:58:42 <nsh_> Arnia, mmm
19:58:45 <Arnia> clsn: I'd guess you'd end up with Mercator actually
19:59:00 <clsn> No, can't be mercator. I thought of that.
19:59:08 <Arnia> Oh, no
19:59:17 <clsn> A circle near the pole of mercator is as wide as one at the equator.
19:59:18 <Arnia> you'll end up with the polar projection I think
19:59:30 * Arnia ponders
19:59:48 <[bjoern]> 416 bytes of table data, ~750ms in mingw-gcc, my fastest version was ~500ms with much more memory use, so this should be quite okay.
19:59:51 <clsn> Polar? There's an anisotropy in my transformation where polar is symmetric I think
20:00:17 <clsn> Maybe I can get gnuplot or PostScript or something dorky to sketch out a graph for me.
20:00:34 <[bjoern]> ~20 instructions in the loop, ~60 byte
20:00:54 <nsh_> wait
20:01:17 <clsn> WP probably has a page on sphere projections.
20:01:20 *** ephemerian (n=ijd@82-71-51-229.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) has joined #swhack
20:01:38 <nsh_> .wik Map projections
20:01:39 <phenny> "A map projection is any method of representing the surface of a sphere or other shape on a plane." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Map_projections
20:02:23 * Arnia thinks
20:02:46 <nsh_> you get a
20:02:48 <nsh_> \/
20:02:52 <Arnia> Could it be polar but about the point (0,0) in lat,long
20:03:00 <clsn> Sinusoidal projection?
20:03:07 <nsh_> . \/
20:03:10 <nsh_> . /\
20:03:12 <nsh_> projection
20:03:18 <nsh_> cyllindrical at the equator
20:03:33 <clsn> Polar doesn't work. Sinusoidal looks likely:
20:03:37 <nsh_> and stretched at the poles
20:03:41 <clsn> * Sinusoidal: the north-south scale and the east-west scale are the same throughout the map, creating an equal-area map. On the map, as in reality, the length of each parallel is proportional to the cosine of the latitude. Thus the shape of the map for the whole earth is the region between two symmetric rotated cosine curves.[1]
20:04:40 <nsh_> oh, i had it backwards
20:04:44 <nsh_> that does make more sense
20:04:46 <clsn> The true distance between two points on the same meridian corresponds to the distance on the map between the two parallels, which is smaller than the distance between the two points on the map. The true distance between two points on the same parallel – and the true area of shapes on the map – are not distorted.
20:05:19 <clsn> That looks right... And it sounds like the approximation would be pretty good for small distances (~60mi) I think (less than 1°)
20:06:33 <nsh_> what's your interest, clsn?
20:07:05 <sbp> clsn is engaged in a project to create accurate cartographical representations of supermodels' bosoms
20:07:06 <nsh_> oh, you're doing some geo database stuffs
20:07:14 <nsh_> working out the distances between people in your family tree
20:07:16 <clsn> Was doing it for An Actual Client™, in order to find all the X's closest to certain Y's.
20:07:16 <nsh_> or some such
20:07:26 <sbp> see how discreet he is?
20:07:28 <nsh_> whoa, real work? are you aware what decade this is?!
20:07:47 <clsn> e.g. "I'm in the bar, where are the closest porn shops?"
20:07:51 <nsh_> i think you can get a
20:08:05 <nsh_> trillion libraries
20:08:12 <nsh_> that will calculate geographical distances from coordinates
20:08:20 <nsh_> (at a rough estimate)
20:08:22 <clsn> I was just wondering how close to correct my approximation was.
20:08:26 * nsh_ nods
20:08:29 <sbp> and they're all inaccurate of course
20:08:40 <Arnia> http://www.cgl.uwaterloo.ca/~smann/Papers/dorst-mann-I.pdf
20:08:44 <clsn> Yeah, probably. But then I wouldn't be using the wonderfully helpful geometry features of MySQL.
20:09:05 <clsn> They're probably more accurate than mine. I don't take the oblateness of the earth into account for one thing.
20:09:18 <nsh_> HEATHEN
20:09:20 <sbp> neither do they mostly, I'd guess
20:09:37 <sbp> not to mention the plates sliding about all over the shit
20:09:44 <clsn> I wonder why my mouse pointer is so jittery today. It's like it drank six cups of coffee. Sits there shivering even when I'm not moving the mouse.
20:09:49 * nsh_ would calculate the distances in real time from DNS request latencies
20:09:50 <sbp> fucking crazy plates, boogieing on that magma slide
20:09:58 <nsh_> because i'm hardcore like that
20:10:07 <Arnia> and the density differences that effect the geoid
20:10:17 <nsh_> oh sbp, are you up-to-date with achewook? there's been some massive choxlations
20:10:20 <clsn> It has to be a software thing; it happened even when I unplugged the received from USB.
20:10:21 <nsh_> *wood
20:10:31 <sbp> nsh_: yeah, up until the last couple of days ago
20:10:39 <nsh_> cool
20:10:40 <sbp> the Wii one with Nice Pete was great
20:10:47 <sbp> as you observed
20:10:50 * nsh_ nods
20:10:53 <sbp> I did notice. I noticed that you saw him
20:11:12 * nsh_ feels confirmed spiritually
20:11:22 <sbp> nsh_: have you seen the archetypal Nice Pete strip?
20:11:27 <nsh_> nuppers
20:11:45 <clsn> yeah, definition under sinusoidal projection sounds right.
20:12:00 <sbp> nsh_: this is not the one that I mean, but you need to see this one too:
20:12:00 <sbp> http://achewood.com/index.php?date=04042003
20:12:11 <nsh_> wait, can you harvest contour data from google?
20:12:17 <nsh_> or any other GIS source?
20:12:33 <nsh_> would be nice to calculate the actual contour integral between two locations
20:12:49 <nsh_> ischex
20:12:56 <sbp> nsh_: ah, here we go:
20:12:56 <sbp> http://m.assetbar.com/achewood/uua90s19m
20:13:12 <nsh_> awesome
20:13:39 <sbp> nsh_: also http://m.assetbar.com/achewood/uua1lvPnn
20:13:42 <nsh_> ahaha
20:13:57 <sbp> there have been many Nice Pete moments
20:14:43 <nsh_> good times
20:15:09 <bancus> GIS/
20:15:10 <bancus> ?
20:15:15 <bancus> My girlfriend should be here for this.
20:15:37 <bancus> (Geography Post-Grad Student; GIS Technician for the US Forest Service)
20:16:32 * nsh_ considers things divers
20:16:46 <sbp> mochel divers, old schule?
20:17:14 <nsh_> mochelmas
20:17:31 <nsh_> i should update my c.v. to apply for this lab tech job
20:17:33 <sbp> ...hehe, that made me think "Greatmass"
20:17:45 <nsh_> sounds intriguing
20:17:57 <nsh_> you mean mozart's greatmass?
20:18:12 <sbp> well no, because mochel means much
20:18:19 <sbp> and Much as a town name means great
20:18:37 <nsh_> oh
20:18:57 *** shepazu has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
20:19:06 <nslater> nsh_: wut?
20:19:10 <nslater> nsh_: what am i up to?
20:19:11 <sbp> etymolotafting
20:19:12 <nsh_> WUTURSELF
20:19:31 <nslater> no. you.
20:19:32 <nsh_> yeah, what you up to?
20:19:37 <nsh_> when you giving me a job anyway?
20:19:42 <nsh_> i was expecting cashmoneys
20:19:51 * bancus is first in line for jerbs.
20:19:52 <nslater> just finished watching james bond. about to have a poo and ponder what to do with the rest of the muggy eveneing
20:19:54 <nsh_> and here i sit cashmoneyless
20:19:55 <nslater> what about you?
20:19:57 <sbp> jobs for everybody!
20:20:02 <sbp> from clsn's supermodels, preferably
20:20:13 <nsh_> i'm learning geometric algebra and psychopathy
20:20:13 <bancus> Hopefully not boobjobs.
20:20:22 *** lmorchard|away is now known as lmorchard
20:20:32 <sbp> Poo and Ponder
20:20:40 <sbp> that'd made a good pub name
20:20:41 <nslater> yeps
20:20:43 <sbp> The Poo and Ponder
20:20:51 <sbp> not sure what you'd put on the sign though
20:20:51 <nsh_> let it be so
20:20:58 <nsh_> AN OCELOT
20:21:03 <sbp> ehheh
20:21:10 <nsh_> that'd showum
20:21:29 <nslater> just a pic of me, on the bog... thinking. right? right!?
20:21:51 <bancus> Or a picture of The Thinker redone to be takin' a shit.
20:22:01 <nsh_> nah
20:22:08 <nsh_> a dynamic sculpture of the thinker
20:22:10 <bancus> (I would be surprised if a picture of that didn't already exist.)
20:22:18 <nsh_> which squeezes out a log on the hour
20:22:19 <bancus> .g the thinker on the toilet
20:22:20 <phenny> bancus: http://www.cartoonstock.com/directory/t/thinker.asp
20:22:27 <nsh_> (into some kind of "ting"ing metal bucket
20:22:28 <nsh_> )
20:23:01 <bancus> cartoon 4
20:23:11 <bancus> http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/dre0666l.jpg
20:23:15 <nsh_> http://www.nealo.com/blog/wp-content/sdr120808-small.jpg
20:23:25 <sbp> or like, a picture of Noah and there's a thought bubble, and Noah's looking up at the thought bubble and in the thought bubble is a log of fecal matter, and the log of fecal matter is dressed up like Fonzie from Happy Days, and it's got glasses on and is sticking up a knobbly thumb and its sunglasses are smeared with a bit of itself
20:23:46 <bancus> ...
20:23:46 <nslater> wait... no
20:23:50 <nslater> you need some recursion..
20:23:51 <bancus> What the fuck.
20:24:00 <nsh_> this came up, too: http://lh4.ggpht.com/theboglogger/R93VLCaKkVI/AAAAAAAAAHo/nM1UwM0txgE/The+Thinker_thumb%5B9%5D
20:24:01 <nslater> the shit, dressed as fonzie, is also taking a shit
20:24:08 <nsh_> woah
20:24:13 <nslater> ... 'cept his thought bubble is actually mork from mork and mindy
20:24:13 <nsh_> shit's getting a bit real her
20:24:14 <nsh_> e
20:24:26 <nslater> or rather, a shit dressed up like mork
20:24:29 <nsh_> no wait
20:24:30 <sbp> hehe
20:24:35 <nslater> who is also taking a shit :/
20:24:40 <nslater> depends how big the sign is...
20:24:41 <sbp> you'd need a big sign
20:24:42 <sbp> yeah
20:24:43 <nsh_> shit fonzie is jumping a shark on the toilet using a jet-ski
20:24:44 <nslater> ... how much detail you can get in
20:24:54 <nsh_> wait, jet-toilet...
20:24:57 <sbp> oh man
20:25:05 <nsh_> immensity
20:25:16 <sbp> choxelling like a dude here
20:25:35 <nslater> you still in couchdb sbp?
20:25:40 <nsh_> choxling like a dude au toilet
20:25:42 <sbp> nope, I emoparted ages ago
20:25:42 <nslater> shame, no
20:25:48 <nslater> see #tumbolia
20:26:36 <nsh_> oh nslater
20:26:45 <nsh_> i registered twitter/tumbolia
20:26:53 <nsh_> you don't get it til i get the cashmoneys
20:27:06 <nslater> teh noes
20:27:06 <sbp> I can't believe you the whole thing!
20:28:11 <nsh_> hmm
20:28:48 <nsh_> I accidentally your whole credulity regarding my having the whole thing
20:29:16 <sbp> see, the way I figure it
20:29:29 <sbp> the original was good because it used an adverb to indicate the missing verb
20:29:37 <sbp> but I think that one can be more too
20:29:43 <sbp> like that, for example
20:29:58 <sbp> the general technique I use it just to write shit out
20:30:00 <sbp> and then the verb
20:30:27 <sbp> (see in that case it didn't work since "and then the verb" is gramatically sound itself)
20:30:40 * nsh_ incompletely your entire perhapsness
20:30:49 <nsh_> mm
20:31:20 <nslater> hmm
20:31:23 <nslater> ... my house smells weird
20:31:35 <nslater> gave up smoking three days ago (again! ffs) and im starting to notice things
20:31:43 <nslater> ... i think it's... i think...
20:31:43 <nsh_> you have to replace the hookers every few months, nslater
20:31:45 <nslater> fried onions
20:31:55 <sbp> yeah, they go off
20:32:00 <nslater> ... i dont fry, and i dont have any onions. so im a bit confused
20:32:07 <nsh_> especially if you maridande them in onions
20:32:19 <nsh_> did you accidentally order the onion-marinaded hookers?
20:32:20 *** kpreid has quit ()
20:32:21 <nslater> took a strol through town today...
20:32:22 <nsh_> happens all the time
20:32:35 <nsh_> i like this set-up
20:32:40 <nsh_> CONTINUE
20:32:42 <sbp> stroll bait
20:33:24 <nsh_> oh man
20:33:26 <nsh_> .gs * bait
20:33:27 <phenny> * bait: shark (6), live (6), deckhand chokes on (5), the (4), pogey (4)
20:33:30 *** libby has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
20:33:31 <nslater> sorry... phone
20:33:36 <sbp> .gs driving me *
20:33:37 <phenny> driving me *: crazy (71), nuts (66), insane (11), mad (6), to (5), mental (3)
20:33:38 <nslater> okay, went into town, and it was so weird
20:33:49 <sbp> I realised today that there are so many ways to complete "driving me"
20:33:58 <nslater> like... imagine you just got your hearing back after 20 years of being deaf... and someone takes you to a music concert
20:33:58 <sbp> driving me crazy, nuts, instane, made, mental, yes...
20:34:05 <nslater> so im walking around town, and there's all these smells!
20:34:12 <nslater> all these shops, and the market, and food places..
20:34:18 <nslater> it was really fucking weird
20:34:25 <nsh_> heh
20:34:25 <sbp> but also spare, up the wall, bonkers...
20:34:27 <nslater> i must have looked like a proper tard
20:34:28 <nsh_> i just never had those
20:34:33 <nslater> just sniffing everythin
20:34:34 <Monty> which is as you doing the answer
20:34:54 <sbp> ugh, 1-1
20:35:00 <nsh_> driving me wrexome
20:35:02 <nsh_> meh
20:35:10 * nsh_ considers tv-inating the room
20:35:19 <nslater> tv is for losers and tramps
20:35:24 <nslater> and venesualen hookers
20:35:39 <sbp> heh, heh
20:35:40 <nslater> this fried onion shit is driving me bonkers
20:35:55 <nsh_> just order some onion rings
20:35:59 <nsh_> damn, order me some too
20:36:03 <sbp> yeah, then it'll have a reasno
20:36:08 <nsh_> right
20:36:11 <nslater> i have some onion ring *Crips* in the fridge
20:36:16 <nsh_> wtf
20:36:18 <nslater> ... but they wont be the same
20:36:20 <nsh_> in the fridge?
20:36:24 <nsh_> where are you storing the hookers then?!
20:36:29 <nsh_> in the crisp lader?!
20:36:36 <nslater> yeah, erm... dont ask me why... ive been a bit bonkers these last few days
20:36:46 <nslater> got loads of sweets and crisps... and put em all in the fridge
20:36:50 <nslater> made sense at the time
20:36:52 <nsh_> .ety larder
20:36:53 <phenny> "c.1300, from Anglo-Fr. larder 'a place for meats,' from M.L. lardarium 'a room for meats,' from L. lardum 'lard, bacon' (see lard)." - http://etymonline.com/?term=larder
20:36:54 <sbp> man I love Swhack evenings sometimes
20:37:15 <nslater> been keepin' my squash in the fridge too
20:37:18 <nsh_> i would sure love this swhackeven if i had some crisps sweets and some hookers
20:37:20 <nslater> really makes a difference in the morning
20:37:24 <nsh_> butternut?
20:37:27 <nslater> ... when you pour that first glass of orange
20:37:28 <nsh_> of course you keep squash in the fridge
20:37:33 <nslater> you can taste the crispy iceyness
20:37:34 <sbp> yeah
20:37:48 <sbp> pro tip: Del Monte pineapple
20:37:49 <Monty> delete(Query) then it'll have a thing, but that's been a sub object with emit so proofs affect the pole of coffee. Sits there are truth used at all.
20:37:58 <nsh_> del monty
20:38:00 <Monty> (into some massive choxlations
20:38:00 <sbp> seriously. I've tried so many different kinds of pineapple
20:38:01 <Monty> yeps
20:38:09 <nslater> more like failapple. amirite?
20:38:15 <nsh_> mmm
20:38:16 <sbp> they all blow oscelot nads comparatively
20:38:16 <nsh_> sometimes works
20:38:17 <Arnia> 'The Poles of Coffee' sounds like a fairtrade polemic
20:38:18 <nslater> choxlations!
20:39:01 <nsh_> i think you need the fundamental theorem of beansploitation to prove coffee has poles
20:39:02 <nslater> tonight is good... i like tonight, sbp is right
20:39:10 <sbp> .gc haxative
20:39:11 <phenny> haxative: 0
20:39:16 <nsh_> yours!
20:39:38 <nslater> it's hot, muggy, im slightly drunk and i have nothing to do... and i have a big pile of films from the 60s. curiously enough, all i can particularly think of doing is sleeping. heh
20:39:48 <nslater> plus, im listening to funk... motherfutons
20:39:53 <nsh_> futonic
20:39:56 <lisppaste2> [bjoern] annotated #77871 "table documentation" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77871#2
20:39:57 <nsh_> damn
20:40:01 <nsh_> i'm coming to york
20:40:08 <nslater> actual funk. didnt even know i had any funk
20:40:09 <sbp> nslater: show nsh_ the page motherfutons is from
20:40:13 <sbp> if you can remember the URI
20:40:17 <nsh_> i seends it already
20:40:19 <nslater> nsh has seen
20:40:20 <sbp> aha
20:40:25 <procto> a workprint of the new Wolverine movie leaked
20:40:26 <sbp> nobody told me
20:40:28 <procto> pretty amusing
20:40:29 <nslater> work that slap base!
20:40:30 * nsh_ was invited camping in the peaks for next week
20:40:31 <sbp> procto!
20:40:34 <nsh_> i should call about that
20:40:38 <nsh_> PROCOTOL
20:40:47 <procto> you get to see not fully rendered 3d figures
20:40:50 <procto> and all the wires, etc.
20:40:59 <nslater> nsh_: you've yet to invite me to a forrest party
20:41:00 <nsh_> sweet
20:41:05 <nsh_> wrkn on it
20:41:08 <procto> sbp!
20:41:11 <nslater> nsh_: or warehouse party, or rave.. or even a fuckin' night out
20:41:22 <nslater> i know u be hatin' on the slater, it's okay
20:41:35 <sbp> slaterhater
20:41:36 *** JimJibber has quit (Connection timed out)
20:42:57 <[bjoern]> "Overseas Contingency Operation"
20:43:19 * [bjoern] checks the date on http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/24/AR2009032402818.html
20:43:35 <sbp> .head http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/24/AR2009032402818.html Last-Modified
20:43:35 <phenny> There was no Last-Modified header in the response.
20:45:21 <[bjoern]> "Financial Rescue Nears GDP as Pledges Top $12.8 Trillion" - http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=armOzfkwtCA4&refer=worldwide
20:46:01 <sbp> [bjoern]: someone asked Obama today whether people should spend or save, and he said save. I guess because the governments are doing all the spending for people?
20:46:10 <sbp> GOOOAL!
20:46:15 <sbp> John Terry. yay
20:46:17 <sbp> 2-1
20:46:20 <nsh_> hrmm
20:46:21 <nsh_> ooOo
20:47:51 * nsh_ is well deplete of slateshates mang
20:48:04 <[bjoern]> Either way the money would end up in the bank.
20:48:13 <sbp> true
20:48:19 <nsh_> nslater, come to frenchtek
20:48:23 <[bjoern]> cf. the southpark episode I posted yesterday
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20:49:45 <nslater> nsh_: what?
20:50:19 <nslater> sexy boobs crash babe funny girls hot girl candid
20:50:23 <nslater> car dance fight strip model ass cool bikini babes
20:50:26 <nslater> cam webcam dancing sex naked nude sexy pussy
20:50:44 <sbp> squibnocket
20:51:36 <nslater> spot the odd one out?
20:51:50 <nsh_> nslater, huge teknival in france at the start of april
20:51:55 <nsh_> (well, two. one legal one illegal)
20:52:08 <sbp> crash, funny, and fight
20:52:10 <nslater> which part? whats the travel/crash arangements?
20:52:21 <nslater> yeah, weird huh? was the content of an email i just received
20:52:35 <nsh_> near paris
20:52:52 <nsh_> ferry or bus/rig-van/mates car
20:53:13 <Arnia> nsh_, clsn, nslater, sbp: if one wishes to play with Clifford algebras, http://www.enthought.com/~rkern/cgi-bin/hgwebdir.cgi/clifford/file/443a78ca5613/clifford.py
20:53:16 <nslater> sbp: trying to read this email
20:53:16 <sbp> hypergalactic moped
20:53:20 <nslater> sbp: making my head spin
20:53:26 <nsh_> some info: http://www.partyvibe.com/forums/free-parties-teknivals/35429-french-tek-2009-a.html
20:53:27 <nslater> ... might leave for the morrow
20:53:35 <nsh_> Arnia, thanks
20:54:01 <sbp> Arnia: thanks
20:54:09 <nslater> hmm
20:54:30 <nslater> ... i have two friends who live in france, and a raver in manchester who i could probably convince to come with me
20:54:39 <nslater> nsh_: the one i was GOING to set you up with this christmas
20:55:11 <sbp> FT
20:55:12 <sbp> we wins
20:55:18 <sbp> Capello is teh happy
20:55:47 <nslater> nsh_: btw, currently debating getting 2x1210G5...
20:55:59 <nslater> nsh_: my back seem eager to throw some money at me, and its been a while
20:56:05 <nsh_> mmmm
20:56:07 * nslater grins
20:56:14 <sbp> .g 1210G5
20:56:15 <phenny> sbp: http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0040402001889523
20:56:17 <nsh_> this is a very good investment in the current climate of
20:56:21 <nsh_> yaddayadda
20:56:24 <nslater> you think? :) hehe
20:56:24 <sbp> .wik 1210G5
20:56:26 <phenny> Can't find anything in Wikipedia for "1210G5".
20:56:33 <nslater> .wik technics 1210
20:56:34 <phenny> "The Technics SL-1200 is a series of turntables manufactured since October 1972 by Matsushita under the brand name of Technics." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technics_1210
20:57:26 <nslater> nsh_: france is a stretch though, yuo know anything closer to home?
20:59:09 <nsh_> france-petit
20:59:13 <nsh_> in burnley
20:59:19 <nslater> heh, wut?
20:59:19 <nsh_> it's a housing estate
20:59:21 <nsh_> i don't know
20:59:35 <nsh_> sometimes i just let my finger hit keys
20:59:42 <nslater> kinda like paul graham
20:59:48 <nsh_> indeed
20:59:57 <sbp> heh, heh
21:00:02 <sbp> okay, offs
21:00:05 <sbp> 'night!
21:00:08 <nslater> !night
21:00:14 <nslater> might have nipple photo for you in the morning
21:00:31 <nslater> depends how bored i get
21:02:01 * nsh_ wants drink
21:02:12 <nsh_> maybe there's some whisky hiding away somewhere
21:02:33 <nslater> you can always try nail varnish, or perfume
21:02:42 <nslater> polish, if you're really desperate :/
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21:06:21 * jessica is trying to wrap her head around the fact that at a book shop today, she found a children's edition of Brennu-Njálssaga.
21:07:13 <jessica> As far as I can wrap my head around the plot, it's ... not wrapping well. Christ, it makes anything by the Brothers Grimm look Disneyfied.
21:09:04 <nsh_> .wik Bennu-Njálssaga
21:09:05 <phenny> Can't find anything in Wikipedia for "Bennu-Njálssaga".
21:09:10 <nsh_> silly mirc
21:10:01 <nsh_> .wik Njals saga
21:10:33 <nsh_> to be fair, they teach kids bible stories and they love it
21:10:42 <nsh_> gideon is a pretty fucked up story
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21:25:18 <jessica> Agreed, but God damn.
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21:31:21 <jessica> What the FUCK? http://store.doverpublications.com/by-subject-mccain---obama-paper-dolls.html
21:31:52 <nsh_> .title
21:31:52 <phenny> nsh_: McCain & Obama Paper Dolls
21:32:12 <nsh_> do they come on little hanging-frames shaped like lower-case t's ?
21:32:49 * jessica snerks.
21:33:18 <jessica> I keep on forgetting that lynching isn't a big deal in other countries, whereas if I wore my "Fuck You, You're Irish" t-shirt in the British Isles, I'd be left for dead.
21:34:55 * nsh_ smiles
21:35:14 <nsh_> fucking the irish is so 18th century
21:35:15 <Monty> potty mouth!
21:35:19 <nsh_> quiet monty.
21:35:21 <Monty> we need the log origin/master". I'm wondering
21:35:52 * nsh_ considers replacing fedora10 install with puppy-linux until he gets some ram
21:35:53 * jessica points out that here, it's normal to wear "KISS ME, I'M IRISH" buttons on St. Patrick's Day.
21:36:06 <nsh_> ah
21:37:12 <jessica> It's a major annoyance. Also, everyone claims to be Irish in March, which is also annoying.
21:37:40 <jessica> (And I'm half-Scot, so actually, wearing that t-shirt is way less aggressive than just showing up wearing an orange t-shirt.)
21:37:58 <jessica> (Although T-shirt hell should *totally* have offered that t-shirt in orange, just to really seal the deal.)
21:38:27 <nsh_> heh
21:38:51 <nsh_> i generally side green on st. pat's day
21:38:59 <Arnia> http://www.flickr.com/photos/briankusler/2337430825/
21:39:03 <nsh_> assists the craic
21:39:18 <Arnia> (courtesy of Zeldman)
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22:13:04 <nsh_> anyone have a which magazine logon?
22:13:57 <nsh_> oh, nm, bugmetnot to the rescue
22:15:23 <nsh_> or not
22:15:52 <nslater> i hate ska
22:16:22 <nslater> its one of those things ive always felt i should like because the people ive met who like ska generally tend to be really cool people, with very well developed and agreeable music tastes
22:16:27 <nslater> but i fucking hate ska. there, i said it
22:16:41 <nslater> even though i totally love love love reggae, so whatever
22:17:25 * nslater kicks Montys in the park
22:17:46 * nslater kicks Monty
22:17:49 * nslater kicks Monty!!!!!11111oneoneone
22:18:04 <nslater> great. Monty's sent me to coventary
22:18:22 <nslater> la la la Monty sucks cock
22:19:12 <nslater> i just ate an entire bag of mini eggs. is this a good thing?
22:19:17 <nslater> [ ] yes [ ] no
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22:22:41 <Monty> Oh, that's quite write-heavy, it seems not certain Y's.
22:22:42 <Monty> when flushing a 'next free position' value when they mostly, I'd make sure if it's okay
22:22:43 <Monty> is deprecated also annoying.
22:22:45 <Monty> gropes David Beckham!
22:22:46 <Monty> "A map projection do that, but it got glasses on master, and Ponder
22:23:27 <nslater> wut
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23:04:55 <nsh_> mmrmmm
23:05:09 <nsh_> ska is a bit wank
23:05:12 <nsh_> sometimes it's good
23:07:02 <nsh_> right, food hunting tiem
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23:13:36 <[bjoern]> right on #42 now as expected http://cpants.perl.org/highscores/many
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23:44:29 <nsh_> zomg
23:44:30 <nsh_> nslater
23:44:37 <nsh_> http://ytmnd.com/
23:44:43 <nsh_> has become suddenly awesome
23:45:00 <[bjoern]> how can you tell?
23:45:34 <nsh_> with my awesomelobes
23:45:45 <nsh_> that detect awesomeness with icky fluids and tiny hairs
23:46:14 <Arnia> Thought... what if the small scales seen with the emergence of quantum mechanical weirdness is a sufficient, rather than necessary, condition and we've simply not found other sufficient conditions?
23:46:16 <[bjoern]> you, as in, i
23:46:57 <nsh_> sufficient for what?
23:47:10 *** lmorchard is now known as lmorchard|away
23:47:28 <Arnia> Sufficient to cause quantum mechanical effects to appear
23:47:37 <procto> there are macro-size quantum mechanical effects
23:47:42 <procto> superconductivity is one example
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23:47:57 <[bjoern]> can there be sentience at the quantum level?
23:48:00 <procto> kasimir forces require close distances but their effects are macro-sized
23:48:07 <Arnia> procto: yes, but they're group phenomena
23:48:19 <procto> sure
23:48:29 <procto> I mean, small distances aren't required for quantum phenomena
23:48:36 * nsh_ doesn't think there are QM nongroup phenomena
23:48:40 <procto> it's just that on macro scales decoherence eliminates them
23:48:47 <Arnia> procto: I'm talking about human-scale objects exhibiting observable effects we'd normally only consider small systems capable of
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23:49:10 <Arnia> procto: well, decoherence implies a particular interpretation
23:49:30 <Arnia> I'm beginning to doubt pretty much all the 'normal' interpretations
23:49:37 <procto> yes
23:49:40 <procto> define "normal"
23:50:03 <procto> the old, such as copenhagen, make do with a lot of handwaving
23:50:03 <Arnia> The sorts which get the funding right now
23:50:11 <procto> mwi and some of the consistent histories
23:50:15 <[bjoern]> the normal interpretations are losing faith in you too.
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23:50:45 <procto> seem more reliable
23:51:21 <Arnia> well what if we've got QM backwards and are thinking of it as more physical than it actually is
23:51:56 <nsh_> physical as opposed to what?
23:51:59 <nsh_> geometrical?
23:52:07 <Arnia> That it is actually an artefact of our predictive tools, and our evolved biases as to what is 'rational'
23:52:29 * nsh_ suspects you are correct
23:52:35 <nsh_> but does not know what that would imply
23:52:45 <[bjoern]> My biases have been intellectually designed.
23:53:05 <Arnia> Well, I'm thinking again about exotic probabilities
23:53:17 <Arnia> (in light of today's foray into geometric algebra)
23:53:50 <nsh_> dcc incoming
23:54:23 *** lmorchard|away is now known as lmorchard
23:54:29 <nsh_> mrrr, what's your email, Arnia?
23:55:21 <Arnia> One of Yousef's remarks was that to him it seemed far simpler to assume that QM looks weird simply because we're used to doing probability theory with the reals. If you do probability theory in higher Clifford algebras (particularly the complexes and quaternions) then you get QM
23:55:52 <nsh_> right
23:56:00 <nsh_> but Yousef does not seem to be recieved well
23:56:27 <Arnia> No, but most of the comments I've seen are along the lines of 'this is unnecessary and contributes no new physics'
23:56:35 <Arnia> Which sort of misses the point
23:57:12 <nsh_> yeah
23:57:29 <nsh_> i've only showed the paper to one physicist and they were skeptical but didn't have time to parse the results
23:57:39 <nsh_> certainly to a layman it looks very elegant and intuitively useful
23:57:59 <Arnia> If you get QM if you simply do probabilities on multivectors in 3-space, surely that is preferable to requiring arduous apparatus to derive the most simple results
23:58:02 <nsh_> in the sense that it removes a lot of 'strangeness' and counterintuitivity
23:58:21 <nsh_> but why hasn't Saul applied his results to simplifying some problems
23:58:26 <nsh_> to show their utility
23:58:29 <Arnia> He has...
23:58:55 <nsh_> paper was 1994 though...
23:59:10 <Arnia> Ugh, it was a strange effect which requires QED to predict using operator approaches
23:59:46 <Arnia> yet, it is predicted immediately by using quaternionic probabilities
