00:00:18 <MoiraA> lol
00:01:15 <[bjoern]> .o py ".gc gc"
00:01:15 <phenny> .gc gc
00:01:22 <nelix> lol
00:01:38 <nelix> .o py '/00'
00:01:38 <phenny> /00
00:01:42 <[bjoern]> pity; now with two phennies...
00:01:44 <nelix> erm.
00:04:14 <deltab> .o py import os; os.getcwd()
00:04:36 <deltab> .o py __file__
00:04:37 <phenny> /base/data/home/apps/phenny-ws/1.334011561837305029/service/py.py
00:04:56 <Arnia> ...
00:05:15 <Arnia> phenny, ask nslater about the sandboxing of the oblique python
00:05:15 <phenny> Arnia: I'll pass that on when nslater is around.
00:05:34 <deltab> it's Google App Engine
00:07:17 <deltab> http://phenny-ws.appspot.com/
00:08:03 <Arnia> I know it is Google App Engine... but I find the idea of unrestricted eval a little alarming nevertheless :)
00:10:03 <nelix> .o py dir(__import('sys')__)
00:10:06 <phenny> SyntaxError: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
00:10:15 * nelix scratchs
00:10:22 <nelix> .o py dir(__import(sys)__)
00:10:22 <phenny> SyntaxError: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
00:10:27 <deltab> .o py a = 1; a
00:10:38 <deltab> .o py eval('a = 1; a')
00:10:38 <phenny> SyntaxError: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
00:10:47 <nelix> .o py ().__class__.mro()[1].__subclasses__()[23]
00:10:47 <phenny> <type 'cStringIO.StringO'>
00:10:55 <nelix> .o py ().__class__.mro()[1].__subclasses__()[17]
00:10:55 <phenny> <type 'file'>
00:11:00 <deltab> .o py eval(compile('a = 1; a', 'irc', 'single'))
00:11:00 <phenny> 1
00:11:12 <nelix> .o py ().__class__.mro()[1].__subclasses__()[17].read.__name__
00:11:12 <phenny> read
00:11:42 <nelix> .o py ().__class__.mro()[1].__subclasses__()[17].open('/etc/passwd').read()
00:11:42 <phenny> AttributeError: type object 'file' has no attribute 'open'
00:11:50 * nelix humphs
00:11:54 <nelix> i need to learn more python
00:12:16 <deltab> just call it to create an instance
00:13:07 <deltab> .o py ().__class__.mro()[1].__subclasses__()[17]('/etc/passwd').read()
00:13:09 <phenny> IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/etc/passwd'
00:14:08 <nelix> suprising.
00:14:13 <nelix> .o py ().__class__.mro()[1].__subclasses__()[17]('/etc/passwd').read()
00:14:15 <phenny> IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/etc/passwd'
00:14:37 <nelix> .o py ().__class__.mro()[1].__subclasses__()[17]('/var/garbage').read()
00:14:38 <phenny> IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/garbage'
00:14:45 <nelix> dade lied to me
00:15:18 <[bjoern]> phenny, tell sbp http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_UEFA_European_Under-21_Football_Championship#Knockout_stage
00:15:18 <phenny> [bjoern]: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
00:17:08 <nelix> .o py eval(compile("""import threading; dir(threading)"""))
00:17:10 <phenny> TypeError: compile() takes at least 3 arguments (1 given)
00:17:28 <nelix> .o py eval(compile("""import threading; dir(threading)""",'<string>','eval'))
00:17:29 <phenny> SyntaxError: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
00:17:52 <nelix> .o py exec compile("""import threading; dir(threading)""",'<string>','exec')
00:18:14 <nelix> no statments, huh
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00:49:49 <MoiraA> hello
00:50:02 *** danja_ (n=danny@host151-202-dynamic.33-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #swhack
00:52:57 <deltab> nelix: you didn't ask for any output
00:53:12 <deltab> .o py exec compile("""import threading; dir(threading)""",'<string>','single')
00:53:14 <phenny> ['BoundedSemaphore', 'Condition', 'Event', 'Lock', 'RLock', 'Semaphore', 'Thread', 'ThreadError', 'Timer', '_BoundedSemaphore', '_Condition', '_DummyThread', '_Event', '_MainThread', '_RLock', '_Semaphore', '_Timer', '_VERBOSE', '_Verbose', '__all__', '__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__', '_active', '_active_limbo_lock', '_allocate_loc
00:53:34 <deltab> .o py exec compile("""import threading; print dir(threading)""",'<string>','exec')
00:53:34 <phenny> ['BoundedSemaphore', 'Condition', 'Event', 'Lock', 'RLock', 'Semaphore', 'Thread', 'ThreadError', 'Timer', '_BoundedSemaphore', '_Condition', '_DummyThread', '_Event', '_MainThread', '_RLock', '_Semaphore', '_Timer', '_VERBOSE', '_Verbose', '__all__', '__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__', '_active', '_active_limbo_lock', '_allocate_loc
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01:26:27 <procto> .o py exec compile("""import os;print os.listdir('.');""",'<string>','exec')
01:26:29 <phenny> ['feedparser.py', 'main.py', 'unescape.py', 'html2text.py', 'BeautifulSoup.py', 'dateutil', 'service', 'chardet', 'pytz']
01:26:31 <procto> hmm
01:26:47 <procto> .o py exec compile("""import os;print os.listdir('..');""",'<string>','exec')
01:26:48 <phenny> OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '..'
01:26:53 <procto> ah ha!
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01:30:25 <nelix> hey cool it has feed parser
01:31:09 <nelix> i wonder if .o has secrets.
01:36:00 <danja_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdOWFElj98
01:36:06 <[bjoern]> .title
01:36:07 <phenny> [bjoern]: YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.
01:36:16 <[bjoern]> .o youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdOWFElj98
01:36:17 <phenny> <!--: spam
01:36:22 <danja_> serves you right
01:36:34 <[bjoern]> <!--: shupfoo
01:38:54 <danja_> never thought, there's a vwhole youtube culture of playing things backwards for demonic messages
01:38:59 <danja_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Si7xYf7ilE&NR
01:39:17 <[bjoern]> you lack an ability to imagine the obvious.
01:46:56 <danja_> please shoot the next english person you see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOOfWm_fLkg
01:47:38 <[bjoern]> with pleasure, or a gun
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02:24:52 <[bjoern]> .gc anbandeln
02:24:53 <phenny> anbandeln: 6,100
02:35:54 <nslater> hmm, weird
02:36:05 <nslater> why are people doing exec compile?
02:36:11 <nslater> and why are people doing ".o py"?
02:36:27 <nslater> .py import os;print os.listdir('.');
02:36:29 <phenny> ['feedparser.py', 'main.py', 'unescape.py', 'html2text.py', 'BeautifulSoup.py', 'dateutil', 'service', 'chardet', 'pytz']
02:36:33 <nslater> crazy mofos
02:36:44 <nslater> or even...
02:36:50 <nslater> .py os.listdir('.')
02:36:51 <phenny> ['feedparser.py', 'main.py', 'unescape.py', 'html2text.py', 'BeautifulSoup.py', 'dateutil', 'service', 'chardet', 'pytz']
02:36:56 <nslater> man, lrn2python
02:37:10 <nslater> procto: I'm looking at you, foo'
02:37:32 <nslater> .py os.listdir('/')
02:37:32 <phenny> OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/'
02:37:55 <nslater> .py os.listdir('/base/data/home/apps/phenny-ws')
02:37:55 <phenny> OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/base/data/home/apps/phenny-ws'
02:38:07 <nslater> .py os.listdir('/base/data/home/apps/phenny-ws/1.334011561837305029')
02:38:07 <phenny> ['feedparser.py', 'main.py', 'unescape.py', 'html2text.py', 'BeautifulSoup.py', 'dateutil', 'service', 'chardet', 'pytz']
02:38:42 <[bjoern]> ,o py 6**6**6
02:38:46 <nslater> fail
02:38:47 <[bjoern]> .o py 6**6**6
02:38:49 <phenny> 26591197721532267796824894043879185949053422002699243006604327894970735598738829091213422929061755830324406828265067234256016357755902793896426126110930203989303477744606138944253796008746621478842290221338538191929054279157507592749529351093190203622719898305785393288076331968345070906399461311389994602776719782894125322123292520329605118204879136
02:38:55 <[bjoern]> .o py 32**32**32
02:39:02 <phenny> MemoryError
02:39:02 <nslater> .py 1<<99999999
02:39:12 <nslater> .py 1<<99999999999999999999999
02:39:13 <phenny> OverflowError: long int too large to convert to int
02:39:38 <nslater> .py 1<<9999999999999999999999900000000
02:39:38 <phenny> OverflowError: long int too large to convert to int
02:39:41 <nslater> hmm
02:39:45 <[bjoern]> .o py 7**7**7
02:39:51 <nslater> .py 1<<9999999999999999999999900000000
02:39:53 <phenny> OverflowError: long int too large to convert to int
02:39:55 <nslater> erm...
02:40:03 <nslater> .py 1 >> 99999999999999999999
02:40:03 <phenny> OverflowError: long int too large to convert to int
02:40:12 <nslater> hmm! how to get the funny error messag
02:40:29 <[bjoern]> .py 5**6**7
02:40:33 <nelix> .o py while 1:
02:40:34 <phenny> SyntaxError: unexpected EOF while parsing (<string>, line 1)
02:40:45 <nelix> .o py while 1: pass
02:40:53 * nslater hints at timeout
02:41:14 <phenny> A server error occurred. Please contact the administrator.
02:41:19 <[bjoern]> nslater: good day to you.
02:41:22 <nslater> lo
02:41:33 <deltab> .o py 'still here'
02:41:34 <phenny> still here
02:41:44 <nslater> im confused, python used too say something about a rediculous left shift
02:42:16 <nelix> .o py setattr(len,'')
02:42:17 <phenny> TypeError: setattr expected 3 arguments, got 2
02:42:24 * [bjoern] filed http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=39779 the other day...
02:42:32 <nelix> .o py setattr(len,__name__,'toy')
02:42:32 <phenny> TypeError: 'builtin_function_or_method' object has only read-only attributes (assign to .service.py)
02:42:37 <nelix> :(
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02:44:33 <nslater> .py 1 << 99999999999
02:44:35 <phenny> ValueError: outrageous left shift count
02:44:39 <nslater> haha, there we go!
02:44:52 <nslater> .py 1 << 9999999999999
02:44:52 <phenny> ValueError: outrageous left shift count
02:44:55 <nslater> .py 1 << 9999999999999999
02:44:55 <phenny> ValueError: outrageous left shift count
02:45:12 <[bjoern]> .py 0x7fffffff
02:45:12 <phenny> 2147483647
02:45:16 <[bjoern]> .py 1<<0x7fffffff
02:45:16 <phenny> MemoryError
02:45:22 <[bjoern]> .py 1<<0xffffffff
02:45:22 <phenny> ValueError: outrageous left shift count
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03:16:38 <danja_> digging a huge hole here...but does anyone have the uri for w3c achive
03:17:57 <[bjoern]> there has been w3c achieve?
03:18:09 <danja_> archives
03:18:32 <danja_> I've been posting shite, dude
03:18:36 <[bjoern]> so what do you mean by w3c archive?
03:19:08 <[bjoern]> there is a mailing list w3c-archive with the obvious url...
03:19:11 <danja_> www-archive@w3.org
03:19:26 <danja_> yeah
03:19:27 <[bjoern]> lists w3 org archives public www-archive
03:19:30 <danja_> I know
03:19:55 <danja_> but I've lost the web interface
03:20:04 <[bjoern]> lists w3 org archivhes member w3c-archive would be the member only variant
03:20:27 <[bjoern]> you don't mean http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/ do you?
03:20:48 <danja_> I uploaded something else... this was your recc [bjoern]
03:21:10 <[bjoern]> that'd be http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2009Jun/0108.html
03:21:30 <danja_> thank you
03:22:00 <[bjoern]> You drink better stuff than I do! :-)
03:22:53 <danja_> this one http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2009Jun/att-0114/angel.mp3
03:23:09 <danja_> red red wine
03:28:39 <procto> nslater: that's not lrn2python, it's lrn2penny. I didn't know all .o was capable of nor that .py existed :)
03:29:09 <[bjoern]> Well .o just does whatever
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03:48:45 <nelix> .py 'this hosted on google too?'
03:48:47 <phenny> this hosted on google too?
03:59:46 <deltab> .py __file__
03:59:47 <phenny> /base/data/home/apps/phenny-ws/1.334011561837305029/service/py.py
04:05:00 <danja_> YouTube is down for maintenance and will be back shortly.
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08:40:42 <sbp> yo
08:40:42 <phenny> sbp: 22 Jun 22:44Z <Morbus> tell sbp farmville is zynga's newest game: http://apps.facebook.com/onthefarm/
08:40:44 <phenny> sbp: 22 Jun 23:48Z <[bjoern]> tell sbp bottom of http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8104362.stm
08:40:46 <phenny> sbp: 00:15Z <[bjoern]> tell sbp http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_UEFA_European_Under-21_Football_Championship#Knockout_stage
08:40:48 <phenny> sbp: 02:20Z <Morbus> tell sbp http://www.thrica.com/archives/352 shows location of safari history storage, for histoy searching (plain text/XML)
08:42:22 *** Talliesin (n=Talliesi@86.47.160.33) has joined #swhack
08:42:45 <nelix> sbp: have you considered using wikipedia.py for .wik?
08:43:30 <sbp> pardon me?
08:43:43 <sbp> presumably you mean a different wikipedia.py to the one I'm using
08:43:53 <sbp> and no, because I'm happy with the current .wik output
08:43:58 <sbp> and I hate external modules
08:44:45 <nelix> cool
08:51:06 <sbp> phenny: tell [bjoern] http://www.partiallyclips.com/storage/20090616_GirlWithAnimals_lg.png
08:51:06 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when [bjoern] is around.
08:51:52 <sbp> mucho-choxen at 2009_UEFA_European_Under-21_Football_Championship#Knockout_stage
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09:10:30 <sbp> phenny: ask Arnia if I may have a Spotify invite, please
09:10:30 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when Arnia is around.
09:11:10 <Talliesin> Haven't seen Arnia in a while.
09:11:34 <Talliesin> Though I'm hardly consistently active myself.
09:13:20 <sbp> .seen Arnia
09:13:20 <phenny> sbp: I last saw arnia at 2009-06-23 00:08:03 UTC on #swhack
09:13:32 <sbp> earlier this morning
09:13:38 <Talliesin> Yeah, it's not him, it's me.
09:13:42 <sbp> :-)
09:13:47 <sbp> yeah, be around more!
09:14:41 <Talliesin> I shall regale you with local news.
09:15:20 <Talliesin> There is a thing called a spice-burger that is a sort of stuffing and sausage meat patty about the size and shape of a hockey puck.
09:15:43 <sbp> sounds nice
09:15:50 <sbp> (if you're not vegetarian)
09:16:01 <Talliesin> This has died due to the company that makes them going bust.
09:16:14 <sbp> oh, you can't just make 'em at home?
09:16:20 <sbp> doesn't sound too hard
09:16:22 <Talliesin> general reaction is that this is the greatest hardship the recession has yet brought us.
09:16:28 <Talliesin> Which amuses me.
09:16:29 <sbp> hehe
09:16:59 <sbp> wait till an alcoholic beverage factory closes do... oh wait, it's Ireland
09:17:05 <sbp> that won't happen. heh
09:25:06 <sbp> phenny: tell Morbus ‘You have mastered all of the level 3 "First Mate" plunders earning the title of "Master First Mate". / In recognition of your accomplishments, you have received 5% bonus experience from initiating a fight.’
09:25:06 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when Morbus is around.
09:30:47 <Talliesin> Actually, some breweries are, if not in trouble, at least not doing as well.
09:31:25 <Talliesin> .title http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2009/0617/1224248983842.html
09:31:27 <phenny> Talliesin: Diageo seeks to cut 107 jobs in Ireland - The Irish Times - Wed, Jun 17, 2009
09:33:07 <Talliesin> Diageo being the company formed when Guinness plc merged with Grand Metropolitan plc
09:33:36 <cre8radix> heya
09:35:48 <Talliesin> Hey
10:00:14 *** [bjoern] (n=bjoern@dslb-094-222-148-129.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #swhack
10:01:04 <[bjoern]> yo
10:01:04 <phenny> [bjoern]: 08:51Z <sbp> tell [bjoern] http://www.partiallyclips.com/storage/20090616_GirlWithAnimals_lg.png
10:01:28 <sbp> yo!
10:01:53 <sbp> we're giving Prince Charles 25% extra per year now
10:02:01 <sbp> something like £3m, I think it was
10:02:11 <sbp> even though he earns like £16m from his Duchy
10:02:28 <Talliesin> Are you getting 25% more prince-ness in return or whatever it is you are meant to get from him?
10:02:30 <sbp> yeah, £3m
10:02:38 <sbp> Talliesin: not as far as I've noticed
10:03:12 <Talliesin> I could scoff from my position of living in a republic, were it not that we have some of the highest paid public representatives in the world.
10:03:23 <Talliesin> Even with most of them taking pay and pension cuts recently.
10:03:45 <sbp> air and rail travel accounted for £1,710,000 of that
10:04:20 <sbp> oh, I think it was 23.5% more exactly
10:04:36 <sbp> so only 23.5% more princeishness
10:07:57 <sbp> Alan Duncan: "chill"
10:08:02 <sbp> on the Speaker situation
10:10:54 <[bjoern]> .o wa forecast Magdeburg
10:10:59 <phenny> weather forecast->Magdeburg,Saxony-Anhalt,Germany;temperature->between 49 deg F (5:00am) and 72 deg F (5:00pm), conditions->rain (0.1 hours from 5:00am) -> clear (18.1 hours from 5:00am) -> few clouds (6 hours from 11am);temperature->between 52 deg F (5:00am) and 62 deg F (9:45pm), conditions->clear (7.3 hours from 9:45pm);temperature->between 52 d
10:11:29 <[bjoern]> .o wa weather Mannheim
10:11:33 <phenny> weather->Mannheim,Baden-Wurttemberg,Germany;temperature->61 deg F, relative humidity->68% (dew point: 50 deg F), wind speed->10 mph, (2 hours 21 minutes ago);, -> -> , minimum: 52 deg F, Mon, Jun 22, 6:15 am, ...->average: 65 deg F, ->maximum: 81 deg F, Thu, Jun 18, 1:45 pm, ..., -> -> ;, ->previous week: overcast: 0% (0 minutes) -> clear: 0% (0
10:11:44 <[bjoern]> .o wa weather Magdeburg
10:11:48 <phenny> weather->Magdeburg,Saxony-Anhalt,Germany;temperature->68 deg F, relative humidity->46% (dew point: 46 deg F), wind speed->15 mph, (1 hour 22 minutes ago);, -> -> , minimum: 50 deg F, Mon, Jun 22, 6:45 am->average: 60 deg F, ->maximum: 72 deg F, Thu, Jun 18, 3:45 pm, ..., -> -> ;, ->previous week: overcast: 0% (0 minutes) -> clear: 0% (0 minutes)
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11:09:48 <bsh> My internet is breaking, strange disconnects and nameserver fail
11:10:00 <bsh> can't ping google.com
11:11:03 <bsh> http://www.internethealthreport.com/ does not seem that bad...
11:11:09 <bsh> google.de still reachable
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11:42:24 <Morbus> sbp: ah. looks like they changed it then.
11:42:24 <phenny> Morbus: 09:25Z <sbp> tell Morbus ‘You have mastered all of the level 3 "First Mate" plunders earning the title of "Master First Mate". / In recognition of your accomplishments, you have received 5% bonus experience from initiating a fight.’
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12:32:32 <sbp> DUDES
12:33:30 <nelix> yo bro?
12:35:27 <sbp> sup?
12:36:03 <nelix> 'working' late
12:36:29 <nelix> Mostly sitting here thinking about the walk home, and how much work I should be doing.
12:37:58 <sbp> coo. y is dat?
12:39:16 <nelix> Mostly I am bored, sitting here toying with my IRC bot (and wikipedia.py :P)
12:39:27 <nelix> I'm easy to distract
12:45:12 *** kpreid changed the topic to: "swhack.py"
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13:16:59 <clsn> phenny: tell nslater Maybe something to convert xpath exprs into something BeautifulSoup's find can handle? Or a compact syntax for BS's find?
13:16:59 <phenny> clsn: I'll pass that on when nslater is around.
13:28:56 <sbp> clsn! just the guy. still around?
13:29:41 <clsn> Whazzup?
13:30:34 <sbp> in Genesis 16:14 there's a well mentioned
13:30:36 <sbp> called Beer-lahai-roi
13:30:47 <sbp> do you know if there's any tradition about where exactly that is?
13:31:04 <sbp> an approximate location is given in Genesis
13:31:17 <sbp> it's said to be between Kadesh and Bered
13:31:27 <sbp> it seemed specific enough that there might be some well known tradition
13:31:33 <sbp> yet I can find it hadly mentioned on the web
13:31:37 <sbp> *hardly
13:32:04 <clsn> Hm. It ought to be known, somewhere... Many of the locations are known, or at least disputed ("it's here!" "no, it's here!")
13:32:14 <sbp> aye
13:32:18 <clsn> Lemme see if he.wikipedia.org has something
13:32:22 <sbp> thanks
13:32:38 <sbp> en. doesn't even have an individual page for it
13:32:43 <sbp> not even for the towns, for that matter
13:32:50 <sbp> Kedesh has a page, Bered doesn't appear to
13:32:55 <sbp> er, Kadesh even
13:33:02 <sbp> .wik Kadesh
13:33:03 <phenny> "Kadesh (also Qadesh) was an ancient city of the Levant, located on or near the headwaters or ford of the Orontes River It is surmised by Kenneth Kitchen to be the ruins at Tell Nebi Mend,[1]| about 24 kilometers (15 mi) southwest of Homs (ca. 34°35′N 36°31′E / [...]" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kadesh
13:33:59 <sbp> that's not the page I found. I got:
13:33:59 <sbp> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kadesh_(Israel)
13:34:15 <sbp> now I'm not sure if these are the same or not... heh
13:34:41 <clsn> Nothing on beer-lahai-roi in he.wikipedia.org. General google search returns some of course.
13:35:03 <sbp> ah, no, looks like the second is the right one
13:35:06 <sbp> former is a different one
13:35:59 <clsn> http://lib.cet.ac.il/pages/item.asp?item=9620 says "there is no exact identification of the place." which is neither here nor there.
13:36:18 <sbp> ooh, hmm. well that surprises me all the same
13:36:26 <sbp> then again, I don't know how far apart these two towns are
13:36:35 <sbp> I was sorta thinking they'd be like 10 miles or something
13:36:39 <sbp> but if they're 100 or 200...
13:37:17 <sbp> Bered isn't marked on http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/ca/Horeb.jpg
13:37:23 <sbp> maybe people don't know where Bered is, even?
13:37:40 <clsn> In http://www.truthofland.co.il/masaot/ramon_qadesh_bared.jpg the labeled spot in the middle is labeled beer-lahai-roi
13:38:03 <clsn> Otoh I don't know how trustworthy that site is.
13:38:05 <sbp> ooh, http://net.bible.org/dictionary.php?word=Bered has coördinates
13:38:06 <sbp> ooh
13:38:25 <sbp> oh, that's in Sinai?
13:38:29 <sbp> isn't that too far south?
13:39:14 <clsn> The end-points of the line it's on are marked Bered (in south) and Kadesh-Lutz (in north, not at the very end of the line but the one that's closer in). Note that it isn't the same Luz as was given for the name of the town elsewhere.
13:39:17 <procto> what's being looked for?
13:39:18 <sbp> [[[
13:39:19 <sbp> he Onkelos Targum renders it Chaghra', which is the usual equivalent of Shur, while the Jerusalem Targum renders it Chalutsah, which is also Shur (Ex 15:22). Chalutsah is clearly the city of Elusu mentioned by Ptolemy and from the 4th to the 7th centuries by various ecclesiastical writers. It was an important town on the road from Palestine to Kadesh and Mount Sinai.
13:39:25 <sbp> ]]] - E. W. G. Masterman
13:39:27 <sbp> procto: a well
13:39:32 <sbp> Beer-lahai-roi
13:39:36 <procto> the one with the tunnel?
13:40:03 <clsn> No, the one mentioned in the torah that Hagar calls באר לחי ראי
13:40:07 <clsn> Not Siloam.
13:40:27 <clsn> The further endpoint of that line is labeled Mt Hor, the place where Aaron died.
13:40:44 <sbp> http://maps.google.com/?q=30.68771362304688,34.49479675292969+(Bered)&t=h&ie=UTF8&ll=30.689113,34.496191&spn=0.010407,0.016823&z=16&iwloc=near
13:40:49 <sbp> doesn't look like a great deal there now
13:41:14 <sbp> (this is Bered)
13:42:05 <clsn> google earth probably has someplace labeled that by some eager labeller or another.
13:43:26 <sbp> so if +30° 41' 15.77", +34° 29' 41.27" is Bered, and 30° 41´, 34° 29´ is Kadesh...
13:43:41 <sbp> they are pretty close
13:44:24 <clsn> Whereas the map I showed on truthofland has them on opposite sides of the country, which is much less believable if they're being given as references points.
13:44:28 <sbp> oh
13:44:36 <sbp> NET is giving exactly the same Google Map location for both
13:44:39 <sbp> that's not helpful
13:44:52 <sbp> yeah
13:45:01 <nslater> clsn: ping
13:45:03 <sbp> the truthofland one might be using the *other* Kadesh
13:45:04 * procto has been up for over 20 hours now
13:45:07 * procto is going to go to sleep
13:45:10 <nslater> clsn: beautifulsoup is a pile of dog crap
13:45:25 <sbp> 'night procto
13:45:45 <sbp> nslater: I thought you loved it?
13:48:41 <clsn> nslater: This may be so, but I thought phenny-ws used it. Or is that just my doing?
13:49:02 <clsn> Thing is that so many web pages out there are so ultrasuck a normal parser can't handle them.
13:49:39 <clsn> .gc ultrasuck
13:49:39 <phenny> ultrasuck: 241
13:51:12 <clsn> Hm, which sort of makes the other idea less powerful too: give it an XSLT page (which can be shoved on the wiki) to parse the incoming data. Trying to avoid having to upload actual software.
13:51:57 <sbp> clsn: http://www.bible.ca/archeology/maps-bible-archeology-exodus-route.jpg says it's right by Mt. Hor
13:52:05 <sbp> beginning to wonder if even the location of Kadesh is known...
13:52:44 <sbp> http://www.ancientsandals.com/overviews/kadesh-barnea.htm says it was thought to be at some place and then they figured actually it's some place else
13:53:27 <clsn> hmm. How come I have a date in my .phenny messagefile of "22 djn 19:45Z"? What kind of locale did it pick up?
13:55:11 <sbp> heh
13:55:28 <sbp> djuun
13:56:47 <clsn> I assume...
13:57:09 <sbp> hmm: http://www.bible.ca/archeology/bible-archeology-exodus-kadesh-barnea-fortresses-ein-qedeis.htm
13:58:42 <sbp> here we go
13:58:45 <sbp> “The actual site of Kadesh-Barnea has long been a subject of scholarly dispute.”
13:59:16 <clsn> And probably a lot of not-so-scholarly dispute too.
13:59:51 <sbp> [[[
13:59:52 <sbp> By 1916 AD, the world rejected Ein El Qedeis for Kadesh. The new location for Kadesh was about 10 km north at Ein el-Qudeirat. Qudeirat has been the almost undisputed location for Kadesh Barnea from 1916 to the present time. However Qudeirat simply cannot be Kadesh Barnea for a long list of reasons discussed elsewhere.
13:59:53 <sbp> ]]]
14:00:03 <sbp> so yeah, apparently they don't know where Kadesh is
14:00:18 <sbp> so Bered presumably isn't known either
14:00:43 <sbp> aj, and http://www.bible.ca/archeology/bible-archeology-exodus-kadesh-barnea-historical-search.htm
14:00:48 <sbp> *ah
14:00:57 * clsn knows where Kadesh is. But won't tell you. Nyanya.
14:01:28 <sbp> hehe
14:01:38 <sbp> hmm, so basically it sounds like this guy says it's at Petra
14:01:45 <sbp> and everybody else says it's at Ein el Qudeirat
14:02:06 <clsn> Note also the line from that page you just cited: In the same way Arthur Woodward misled the world in 1912 AD with his Piltdown man which convinced the world for over 40 years that evolution was true when in fact the scientific case for young earth creation is powerful and convincing.
14:02:23 <clsn> So I'm suddenly not filled with confidence.
14:05:23 <sbp> http://books.google.com/books?id=zFhvECwNQD0C&lpg=PA67&ots=-sjOZzDx1B&dq=%22el%20Qudeirat%22&pg=PA67
14:05:50 <sbp> seems to give the mainstream modern scholarly view
14:06:07 <sbp> (Ain el-Qudeirat)
14:06:28 <sbp> but basically concedes it's unsure
14:07:46 <sbp> hmm, there's also http://www.bibleorigins.net/Kadeshbarneamap.html
14:08:35 <clsn> When my daughter goes to Israel this summer, if they're near there I'll ask her to send you a postcard. :)
14:09:08 <nslater> sbp: nope, I've never said I love it. in fact, I hate it :)
14:09:21 <nslater> clsn: yeah, phenny-ws only uses it because there's no other option
14:10:19 <clsn> Right. So since we're using it, let's see if we can leverage it to a generic scrape-a-piece-of-a-page thingie, either with its own notation (simplified, to fit in a url), or translate from xpath.
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15:10:51 <bsh> re
15:11:01 *** bsh is now known as [bjoern]
15:17:00 <[bjoern]> Tell me what news is good.
15:17:25 <clsn> *silence*
15:18:54 <[bjoern]> germany http://www.derwesten.de/static/nachrichten/7737/12457697123740/53804205_24137730_slide.jpg
15:19:03 <[bjoern]> britonesia http://www.derwesten.de/static/nachrichten/7737/12457697124070/53804207_24137946_slide.jpg
15:19:26 <[bjoern]> confused physics student http://www.derwesten.de/static/nachrichten/7737/12457697124400/53804209_24137038_slide.jpg
15:19:44 <[bjoern]> doublewong http://www.derwesten.de/static/nachrichten/7737/12457697124710/53804210_24133613_slide.jpg
15:22:15 <[bjoern]> "Whale watching generates far more money than whale hunting, according to a report released at the International Whaling Commission (IWC) meeting here."
15:22:56 <sbp> what's that going on in britonesia?
15:23:04 <sbp> are your nameservers reoperational?
15:23:38 <[bjoern]> Wimbledon
15:24:01 <[bjoern]> problems seemed to vanish shortly after, too busyings to do the investigatorix.
15:27:13 <[bjoern]> http://asset.soup.io/asset/0362/4067_6c10.jpeg
15:28:51 <sbp> he should check his spam for P0W33r p1!llz
15:31:55 <[bjoern]> he could level up with her http://asset.soup.io/asset/0362/3670_5c22.png
15:32:49 <[bjoern]> http://asset.soup.io/asset/0362/3621_9187.jpeg
15:34:02 <sbp> what's censored at the bottom?
15:34:56 <[bjoern]> let's find out!
15:35:11 <[bjoern]> (by that i mean you go and find out and tell me)
15:37:08 <[bjoern]> I'd like to research whether http://asset.soup.io/asset/0362/3560_a488.gif is an original
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15:50:42 <[bjoern]> seems to be an original from 1922
15:51:08 <clsn> Yeah, but I bet it was *printed*, robbing some hard-working scribe of a job.
15:51:37 <[bjoern]> hehe
15:51:48 <[bjoern]> .gc "Internationale Artisten-Liga"
15:51:48 <phenny> "Internationale Artisten-Liga": 0
15:52:01 <[bjoern]> .gc "Internationale Artisten-Logo"
15:52:01 <phenny> "Internationale Artisten-Logo": 0
15:52:06 <[bjoern]> .gc "Internationale Artisten-*"
15:52:06 <phenny> "Internationale Artisten-*": 1,080
15:52:10 <[bjoern]> .gs "Internationale Artisten-*"
15:52:11 <phenny> Internationale Artisten-*: wereld zoozeer (2), revue (2), loge (2)
15:52:15 <[bjoern]> loge!
15:54:23 <clsn> (I had to have a long talk with my copy of phenny to get the poster translated to properly understand what it was about)
15:54:39 <[bjoern]> I was quite impressed
15:56:48 <[bjoern]> Against Tonfilm - For living artists; to the audience! attention! dangers of Tonfilm! Many cinemas have to close due to the introduction of Tonfilm and the lack of a diverse program. Tonfilm is <Kitsch>! Anyone who loves art and artists opposes Tonfilm...
15:57:17 <[bjoern]> Tonfilm is <Einseitigkeit>! 100% Tonfilm = 100%<Verflachung>
15:57:32 <[bjoern]> Tonfilm is economic and intellectual murder!
15:57:53 <[bjoern]> Its ... oh I knew a good one for Konservenbüchse...
15:57:58 <[bjoern]> .leo Konservenbüchse
15:57:59 <phenny> die Konservenbüchse = tin
15:57:59 <phenny> — http://dict.leo.org/ende?search=Konservenb%C3%BCchse
15:58:19 <[bjoern]> .leo Konserve
15:58:20 <phenny> die Konserve = can, preserve, tin
15:58:21 <phenny> — http://dict.leo.org/ende?search=Konserve
15:58:38 <[bjoern]> Well let's omit that
15:59:52 <[bjoern]> Its apparature sounds cellaresque, squeeks, corrupts the hearing, and ruins the livelyhoods of musicians and artists
16:00:10 <[bjoern]> Tonfilm is badly preserved theater with higher prices
16:00:14 <[bjoern]> THUS:
16:00:36 <[bjoern]> Demand good silent movies!
16:01:28 <[bjoern]> Demand orchestral accompaniment by musicians.
16:01:46 <[bjoern]> Demand stage show with artists
16:01:53 <[bjoern]> Reject Tonfilm!
16:02:55 <[bjoern]> Where there is no cinema with musicians and stage show: visit the vaudeville (?)
16:03:21 <[bjoern]> Internationale Artisten-Loge E.Y. (?) / Fossil
16:03:35 <[bjoern]> Deutscher Musiker-Verband / Karl Schementz
16:03:40 <[bjoern]> Scheementz
16:03:44 <[bjoern]> wtf
16:03:48 <[bjoern]> Schiementz
16:05:09 <[bjoern]> phenny, "Gegen den Tonfilm! Für lebende Künstler! An das Publikum! Achtung! Gefahren des Tonfilms! Viele Kinos müssen wegen der Einführung des Tonfilms und Mangel an vielseitigen Programmen schliessen! Tonfilm ist Kitsch! Wer Kunst und Künstlier liebt, lehnt den Tonfilm ab!"?
16:05:10 <phenny> [bjoern]: "Against the talkies! For living artists! At the audience! Regard! Dangers of the talkies! Many cinemas have because of the introduction of sound film, and lack of diverse programs close! Sound film is trash! Anyone who loves art and artificial, as opposed to the talkies!" (de to en, translate.google.com)
16:07:09 <[bjoern]> phenny, "Tonfilm ist Einseitigkeit! 100% Tonfilm = 100% Verflachung! Tonfilm ist wirtschaftlicher und geistiger Mord! Seine Konservenbüchsen-Apparatur klingt kellerhaft, quietscht, verdirbt das Gehör und ruiniert die Existenzen der Musiker und Artisten! Tonfilm ist schlecht konserviertes Theater bei erhöhten Preisen!"?
16:07:10 <phenny> [bjoern]: "Talkie is bias! 100% = 100% talkie superficiality! Sound film is more economical and spiritual death! His canned cans apparatus keller term sounds, squeaks, ruin your hearing and damage the livelihoods of musicians and artists! Sound film is poorly preserved theater at higher prices!" (de to en, translate.google.com)
16:08:44 <[bjoern]> phenny, "Darum: Fordert gute stumme Filme! Fordert Orchesterbegleitung durch Künstler! Fordert Bühnenschau mit Artisten! Lehnt den Tonfilm ab! Wo kein Kino mit Musikern oder Bühnenschau: Besucht die Varietés!"?
16:08:44 <phenny> [bjoern]: "Therefore Prompts good dumb movies! Calls orchestral accompaniment by artists! Calls stage show with artists! Rejects from the talkies! Where no cinema with musicians or stage show: Check out the variety!" (de to en, translate.google.com)
16:12:27 *** Talliesin changed the topic to: "#swhack: A sign, I'm sure, for us to make gold from these base elements."
16:16:34 <sbp> if the Treasury keep printing money at this rate, we'll soon have to work out how to turn gold into base elements
16:18:29 <Talliesin> Or just nick lead from roofs
16:19:50 <sbp> we should bring back plumbum
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16:22:54 <[bjoern]> "So, you're promoting childbirth to reduce starvation? Interesting. Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fuck, he'll eat for a lifetime." "It's a modest proposal." - /.
16:26:31 <sbp> the problem is that you have to feed the child to make it grow
16:26:39 <sbp> so when you eat the child you're only getting your food back
16:26:42 <sbp> not really gaining any
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16:32:48 <clsn> Swift did discuss that... Though he wasn't trying to solve starvation.
16:34:24 <[bjoern]> meme of the day seems to be hammertime.
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16:57:18 <[bjoern]> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=PolarPlot[(1+%2B+0.9+Cos[8+t])+(1+%2B+0.1+Cos[24+t])+(0.9+%2B+0.05+Cos[200+t])+(1+%2B+Sin[t]),+{t,+-Pi,+Pi}]
16:58:06 <sbp> cute
16:58:21 <sbp> is that the first decent thing that anybody's found on wolframalpha?
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17:05:29 <[bjoern]> http://asset.soup.io/asset/0357/7398_4c71_500.png
17:10:58 <[bjoern]> If Apple made computers http://asset.soup.io/asset/0354/9077_9856.jpeg
17:12:55 <[bjoern]> http://asset.soup.io/asset/0349/2339_6ebc_500.jpeg
17:12:58 <sbp> should read: iTunes and iPorn
17:13:14 <[bjoern]> and it's redundant with the two buttons on the mouse.
17:14:06 <[bjoern]> wikipedia should have this http://asset.soup.io/asset/0351/7144_2ffc_500.png
17:15:27 <[bjoern]> http://asset.soup.io/asset/0345/1215_be7a.jpeg
17:15:54 <[bjoern]> http://asset.soup.io/asset/0329/9512_8418_500.jpeg
17:16:33 <[bjoern]> http://asset.soup.io/asset/0352/9585_d4c7_500.jpeg
17:19:33 <[bjoern]> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tjYoKCBYag
17:26:01 <[bjoern]> "Managing director of Bord Gáis Energy Dave Bunworth said this morning the stolen laptop containing the account details of 75,000 customers would be \ldblquote very difficult to get into\rdblquote despite it not being encrypted."
17:34:45 <sbp> ...
17:39:25 <[bjoern]> .news 5790 somalia
17:39:25 <phenny> [bjoern]: http://www.gomopa.net/Pressemitteilungen.html?id=260&meldung=Reiche-Russen-auf-Piratenjagd-vor-Somalia
17:39:47 <[bjoern]> I was hoping for something non-german but there you go...
17:40:46 <[bjoern]> Ideas how to prove that the minimal DFA for some regular language is uniquely determined up to isomorphism?
17:41:35 *** lmorchard|away is now known as lmorchard
17:43:27 <nelix> I once read a text which referenced the term DFA
17:43:32 <nelix> http://swtch.com/~rsc/regexp/regexp1.html
17:43:55 <[bjoern]> I know that page and it does not offer an idea for the proof I want
17:44:17 <[bjoern]> There's plenty of proofs on the web I assume, but I am looking for inspiration, not the solution
17:45:54 <sbp> “uniquely determined”?
17:46:41 <[bjoern]> Say you have two DFAs that are minimal in the number of states that recognize the same language.
17:46:54 <[bjoern]> Give each state in the two automata some label
17:47:23 <[bjoern]> Now there is a way to change the labels in the first automaton so that you get the second automaton
17:47:48 <clsn> I'm pretty sure that's true.
17:47:56 <clsn> Not sure how to prove it though.
17:47:56 <[bjoern]> Yes it is true
17:48:45 <clsn> But you want to know why.
17:49:10 <[bjoern]> ... if you regard the two automata as equivalent, then there is no automaton that recognizes the same language and is minimal, but not equivalent
17:49:16 <[bjoern]> Indeed
17:50:34 <Charl> reductio ad absurdum perhaps
17:51:15 <sbp> [bjoern]: yes, it's just graph isomorphism
17:52:13 <[bjoern]> i put it that way too once, until i realized that graph isomorphism is np complete, but comparing minimal dfas is not
17:52:37 <[bjoern]> in Alexander i in fact create DFAs in a way that ensures i can use memcmp to compare them
17:52:53 <sbp> ...hmm
17:53:09 <sbp> so DFAs have characteristics that constrain them from being arbitrary graphs?
17:53:15 <sbp> what are those characteristics?
17:53:28 <sbp> they have *one* start, and *one* end node?
17:53:44 <[bjoern]> one start, but possibly many final states
17:53:48 <sbp> hmm
17:53:51 <sbp> anything else?
17:54:03 <[bjoern]> note that the dfa graphs can have circles, so end nodes is kinda wong
17:54:08 <sbp> if it's only that, it's kinda surprising that that makes it easier than np-complete
17:54:11 <[bjoern]> I am unsure, thinking
17:54:51 <[bjoern]> swhack logs have me investigating the problem i think, with little results
17:55:08 <clsn> Well, the degree of the nodes is restricted by the alphabet, right?
17:55:35 <[bjoern]> Yes
17:55:36 <clsn> Graph isomorphism *where the maximum degree of a node is n* is a whole different matter.
17:55:53 <clsn> general graph isomorphism doesn't have that constraint.
17:56:01 <[bjoern]> (unlike general graphs, dfa arcs have labels, note)
17:56:08 <clsn> zactly.
17:56:36 <clsn> the only constraint on general graph node-degree is numberofnodes-1.
17:56:52 <[bjoern]> GI-complete is "labelled graphs, with the proviso that an isomorphism is not required to preserve the labels,[19] but only the equivalence relation consisting of pairs of vertices with the same label "
17:57:42 <[bjoern]> Graphs of bounded degree is in P
17:57:47 <clsn> Right.
17:57:58 <clsn> And dfa's are graphs of bounded degree.
17:58:40 <[bjoern]> because they are regular, meaning all nodes have the same degree
17:59:10 <[bjoern]> Anyway, that does not help me with the proof!
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18:01:03 <clsn> It answers sbp's question though.
18:01:30 <[bjoern]> Yes, thank us for answering sbp's question but not mine.
18:03:49 <[bjoern]> reductio ad absurdum would work fine, two automata with the same number of states over the same alphabet, if they are not isomorphic they describe different languages. Just need to fill in the details.....
18:04:39 <clsn> Yeah, well, we like sbp better than you.
18:05:35 <sbp> and I didn't even listen to the answer
18:05:59 <xover> .gc alleybatting
18:06:00 <phenny> alleybatting: 259
18:06:12 <xover> .gc defenstration
18:06:13 <phenny> defenstration: 2,180
18:06:22 <xover> Still a ways to go…
18:06:27 <clsn> What exactly does it mean *not* to be isomorphic? There is no relabeling such that... which means that under any relabeling there have to be two nodes that are joined in one and not in the other. oslt.
18:08:10 <sbp> !(A == B)
18:08:29 <sbp> do the easy calculation
18:08:31 <sbp> then flip the bit
18:10:07 <sbp> then again, try eating a chocolate muffin that way
18:10:15 <sbp> the easy thing to do is to not eat a chocolate muffin
18:10:22 <sbp> so then flip the bit on that
18:10:42 <[bjoern]> mathematically you could look at the binary alphabet and have two matrices, one for 0 and another for 1 indicating there is a transition from stateA to stateB over 0 and 1 respectively, then you need a permutation matrix that turns both transition matrices from automaton a into those of automaton b...
18:11:21 <[bjoern]> but from there being no permutation matrix we don't really get a statement about the automata accepting different languages...
18:11:23 <sbp> [bjoern]: “...and threw them, together with their scribe Philip Fabricius, out of the 30 metre high windows of the Bohemian Chancellery. They landed on a large pile of manure in a dry moat and survived. Philip Fabricius was later ennobled by the emperor and granted the title von Hohenfall”
18:11:39 <[bjoern]> good name
18:11:59 <nelix> I never did find a parsing framework that I enjoyed using, I like pymeta for like 5 minutes, untill I realised that strings are not as easy to debug as code.
18:12:19 <[bjoern]> There will be M and Perl6.
18:12:39 <[bjoern]> .wik M programming language
18:12:39 <phenny> "MUMPS (Massachusetts General Hospital Utility Multi-Programming System), or alternatively M, is a programming language created in the late 1960s, originally for use in the healthcare industry." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M_programming_language
18:12:44 <[bjoern]> .wik M (programming language)
18:12:45 <phenny> "M is a new[1]|[2]| programming language developed by Microsoft." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M_(programming_language)
18:12:53 <[bjoern]> google fail
18:13:02 <[bjoern]> (i know)
18:13:21 <nelix> I doubt I'll learn perl6, what else ya got?
18:13:49 <sbp> what's wrong with perl6?
18:13:56 <sbp> (tip: use the trick I described above)
18:13:57 <[bjoern]> Thinking about creating the union of the two automata and then minimizing
18:14:08 <clsn> It's going to take me some convincing to learn perl6 too.
18:14:15 <clsn> The docs make it look ferociously complicated.
18:14:28 <sbp> the proletariat automata should be allowed to form unions of their own volition
18:14:54 <sbp> perl6 is actually a pussydoll, I think
18:15:04 <sbp> it's just that there's loads of this optional stuff...
18:15:36 <clsn> reading through the docs you would think that you have to look up for every keyword whether or not you are allowed to have a space after it, and what it means if you don't.
18:16:11 <nelix> sbp: I am/not going to do a lot of things that are right/wrong
18:16:15 <[bjoern]> docs are far from being as polished as they should be at this point
18:16:16 <sbp> that's only true for the regexen and most of the syntax
18:16:20 <sbp> certainly not all of the syntax
18:16:44 <sbp> you not going to what?
18:16:57 <clsn> The business about whether or not it's a function call or whatever... I realize that it only looks that way bcause of the dumb way the docs are written. It's still daunting.
18:17:02 <nelix> perl6 is to operators as php is to global functions
18:17:11 <[bjoern]> no.
18:17:24 <sbp> most of the operators are just variations on a theme really
18:17:31 <nelix> You have to admit, it has a lot of operators.
18:17:32 <sbp> there are only 578 basic operators
18:17:33 <[bjoern]> There are not thousands poorly designed ones that you may or may not have available
18:17:41 <sbp> all the rest are just evolutions of those basics
18:18:02 <[bjoern]> THERE IS ONLY NAND.
18:18:11 <sbp> hehe
18:18:23 <sbp> don't make me dig the chart out
18:18:34 <[bjoern]> .g periodic table perl6
18:18:34 <phenny> [bjoern]: http://www.ozonehouse.com/mark/blog/code/PeriodicTable.html
18:19:09 <sbp> http://paste.lisp.org/display/71119#11
18:19:14 <sbp> that one, I meant
18:19:16 <clsn> The perl ops do seem kinda out of hand.
18:19:20 <[bjoern]> ah!
18:19:31 <nelix> .wik OISC
18:19:31 <phenny> "A One Instruction Set Computer (OISC) is a Turing-complete abstract machine that uses only one instruction (obviating the need for a machine language opcode)." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OISC
18:20:14 <nelix> Somone should make a 3bit OISC
18:20:19 <sbp> nu
18:22:11 *** danja_ (n=danny@host202-203-dynamic.12-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #swhack
18:22:14 <sbp> I remember doing something with a cartesian combiner and junctions
18:22:22 <sbp> and got told that I was expecting the wrong one to be tighter
18:22:34 <sbp> I guess the cartesian combiner was tighter than the junctions
18:22:44 <sbp> so it is hard to remember
18:22:56 <sbp> but of course you can just write parens when you don't know which is tighter
18:24:28 <[bjoern]> reverse polish perl
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18:27:38 *** danja__ has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
18:28:13 <[bjoern]> Intuitively the problem is so obvious. Over the binary alphabet, two automata, you traverse from the start state, you go over the 0 arc in both, the node you find in the first must be the same as the node you find in the second
18:28:29 <[bjoern]> same as in the language from that point is the same
18:28:33 <sbp> rakudo: say "hello"
18:28:36 <p6eval> rakudo 10f223: OUTPUT«hello»
18:28:47 <[bjoern]> .u 
18:28:47 <phenny> U+2424 SYMBOL FOR NEWLINE ()
18:29:17 <sbp> rakudo: for <a b c> { say $^a; }
18:29:19 <p6eval> rakudo 10f223: OUTPUT«abc»
18:29:21 <clsn> There has to be some transition that you need that isn't there, or that's wrong.
18:30:02 <nelix> rakudo does not know it's own name?
18:30:32 <clsn> Remembering precedence is always a chore (except in APL), but not in itself a shortcoming of perl6.
18:30:33 <[bjoern]> rakudo: say $^a for <a b c>
18:30:35 <p6eval> rakudo 10f223: OUTPUT«too few arguments passed (0) - 1 params expectedin Main (/tmp/9JpuKn3uN7:0)»
18:30:47 <[bjoern]> rakudo: say for <a b c>
18:30:49 <p6eval> rakudo 10f223: OUTPUT«say requires an argument at line 2, near "for <a b c"in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:2432)»
18:31:01 <[bjoern]> rakudo: say $_ for <a b c>
18:31:03 <p6eval> rakudo 10f223: OUTPUT«abc»
18:31:12 <[bjoern]> what's with the $^a?
18:31:16 <sbp> rakudo $_.say() for <a b c>
18:31:20 <sbp> rakudo: $_.say() for <a b c>
18:31:24 <p6eval> rakudo 10f223: OUTPUT«abc»
18:31:24 <sbp> [bjoern]: named arguments
18:31:28 <jsled> NLNLNLNLNL
18:31:31 <sbp> it's like multiple _
18:31:37 <clsn> The ^ twigil is sort of "this is an argument, really."
18:31:42 <sbp> it just treats them in unicode-sorted order
18:31:51 <xover> rakudo: unlink(/)
18:31:53 <p6eval> rakudo 10f223: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near "(/)"in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:0)»
18:32:07 <sbp> xover: the maintainer of the bot asks that we go gentle
18:32:08 <xover> That's what you complain about?
18:32:12 <clsn> You forgot to quote the filename.
18:32:51 *** ephemerian (n=ijd@82-71-51-229.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) has joined #swhack
18:34:26 * nelix 's eyes glaze over
18:34:50 <sbp> now, what was it I was doing...
18:35:10 <sbp> rakudo: for <a b c> X <1 2 3> { say $_; }
18:35:11 <xover> Misspelling common English words?
18:35:13 <p6eval> rakudo 10f223: OUTPUT«a1a2a3b1b2b3c1c2c3»
18:35:49 <sbp> rakudo: for <a b c> X <1 2 3> { say "$^a.$^b"; }
18:35:52 <p6eval> rakudo 10f223: OUTPUT«a.1a.2a.3b.1b.2b.3c.1c.2c.3»
18:35:53 <nelix> xover: All hail English, the language of the tzars!
18:36:25 <sbp> yeah, so I tried ("a"|"b"|"c") X (...) I think
18:36:53 <sbp> rakudo: say $_ for 1..3
18:36:58 <p6eval> rakudo 10f223: OUTPUT«123»
18:37:00 <sbp> rakudo: say $_ for 1..^3
18:37:06 <p6eval> rakudo 10f223: OUTPUT«12»
18:37:22 <sbp> rakudo: say $_ for 1 .. 3
18:37:28 <p6eval> rakudo 10f223: OUTPUT«123»
18:37:43 <sbp> rakudo: say $_ for 1 ..^ 3
18:37:49 <p6eval> rakudo 10f223: OUTPUT«12»
18:38:17 * [bjoern] wonders if :keepall finally works...
18:38:38 <sbp> try it, you glottalic upsilon herder
18:40:01 <[bjoern]> MUST LOOKUP SYNTAX FIRST
18:40:49 <[bjoern]> perhaps like so...
18:40:55 <[bjoern]> rakudo: 'ab foo' ~~ m:keepall/<.ident>/; say $<.ident>
18:40:57 <p6eval> rakudo 10f223: OUTPUT«Colons cannot be used as delimiters in quoting constructs at line 2, near ":keepall/<"in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:0)»
18:41:11 <sbp> rakudo: say "c[INTERROBANG]"
18:41:15 <p6eval> rakudo 10f223: OUTPUT«c[INTERROBANG]»
18:41:23 <sbp> rakudo: say "\c[INTERROBANG]"
18:41:25 <p6eval> rakudo 10f223: OUTPUT«‽»
18:41:30 <clsn> There you go.
18:41:46 <clsn> rakudo: say "\c[INVERTED INTERROBANG]"
18:41:48 <p6eval> rakudo 10f223: OUTPUT«perl6regex parse error: Unrecognized character name INVERTED INTERROBANG at offset 18, found 'I'in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:0)»
18:41:53 <clsn> Hrumph.
18:41:56 <sbp> .u inv int
18:41:56 <phenny> sbp: Sorry, no results for 'inv int'.
18:42:41 <clsn> U+2E18
18:42:56 <sbp> rakudo: say "\u2E18"
18:42:59 <p6eval> rakudo 10f223: OUTPUT«u2E18»
18:43:07 <sbp> rakudo: say "\x[2E18]"
18:43:10 <p6eval> rakudo 10f223: OUTPUT«⸘»
18:44:04 <sbp> rakudo: say ...
18:44:06 <p6eval> rakudo 10f223: OUTPUT«Can't return outside a routinein Main (/tmp/ebarBAp64M:2)»
18:44:13 <sbp> what
18:44:34 <xover> rakudo: ...
18:44:37 <p6eval> rakudo 10f223: OUTPUT«Can't return outside a routinein Main (/tmp/bqTyHcbCpR:2)»
18:44:39 <xover> rakudo: ....
18:44:42 <p6eval> rakudo 10f223: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near "."in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:0)»
18:44:52 <xover> rakudo: ..
18:44:53 <clsn> ⸘
18:44:55 <p6eval> rakudo 10f223: OUTPUT«Syntax error at line 2, near ".."in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:0)»
18:44:58 <clsn> .u ⸘
18:44:58 <phenny> U+2E18 (No name found)
18:45:02 <jsled> !
18:45:09 <sbp> rakudo: sub blah { return ... }; say blah()
18:45:12 <p6eval> rakudo 10f223: OUTPUT«Attempt to execute stub code (...)»
18:45:31 <clsn> rakudo: say *
18:45:32 <p6eval> rakudo 10f223: OUTPUT«sh: ./perl6: No such file or directory»
18:45:37 <[bjoern]> rakudo: token yo { 'yo' }; given "yo" { say m:keepall/<yo>/ }
18:45:37 <p6eval> rakudo 10f223: OUTPUT«sh: ./perl6: No such file or directory»
18:45:39 <xover> Isn't '...' an operator in p6?
18:45:49 <sbp> yeah, but you have to use it in an operator position for that
18:45:56 <sbp> also, it's rebuilding itself now
18:46:00 <sbp> does that every 20 mins I think
18:46:45 <[bjoern]> wasn't the ... syntax changed?
18:46:54 <sbp> iuno
18:47:04 <[bjoern]> I remember being upset for ... now sucking
18:47:18 <sbp> match point for Murray
18:47:18 <deltab> rakudo: say 1 ... 5
18:47:19 <p6eval> rakudo 10f223: OUTPUT«sh: ./perl6: No such file or directory»
18:47:49 <sbp> deltab: .. isn't it?
18:47:57 <sbp> I don't actually recall what it does as an operator though
18:48:03 <sbp> Murray wins, by the way
18:48:04 <deltab> rakudo: say 1 .. 5
18:48:05 <p6eval> rakudo 10f223: OUTPUT«sh: ./perl6: No such file or directory»
18:48:06 <sbp> through the first round
18:48:23 <deltab> sbp: range generation
18:48:46 <clsn> They have ff now for the flip-flop behavior.
18:48:52 <sbp> oh, like .. but lazy-generate?
18:48:53 <clsn> That was one of my favorite examples.
18:48:57 <sbp> fffffffffffffffffff
18:49:06 <deltab> oh, not sure
18:49:22 <clsn> Read the man page description of .. in scalar context. And it is COMPLETELY puzzling. Then see an example. "OOoooooooh, so THAT'S what it does!"
18:50:36 <sbp> oh! I remember this now
18:50:43 <sbp> check this out, this is completely crazyfun
18:50:44 <sbp> [[[
18:50:45 <sbp> If the right operand is * (Whatever) and the sequence is obviously arithmetic or geometric, the appropriate function is deduced:
18:50:45 <sbp> 1, 3, 5 ... * # odd numbers
18:50:45 <sbp> 1, 2, 4 ... * # powers of 2
18:50:47 <sbp> ]]] - S02
18:50:57 <sbp> it's the series constructor
18:51:18 <sbp> rakudo: for 1, 3, 5 ... * { say $_; }
18:51:48 <clsn> Yeah, the whatever *... Wow.
18:51:50 <[bjoern]> 0x10 fail
18:52:02 <clsn> Expects a great deal of magic in the compiler.
18:52:02 <[bjoern]> rakudo: token yo { 'yo' }; given "yo" { say m:keepall/<yo>/ }
18:52:03 <sbp> rakudo: for 1, 3, 5 ... * { say $_; }
18:52:07 <p6eval> rakudo 0e0671: OUTPUT«Colons cannot be used as delimiters in quoting constructs at line 2, near ":keepall/<"in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:0)»
18:52:07 <p6eval> rakudo 0e0671: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near "... * { sa"in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:0)»
18:52:13 <sbp> bitches
18:52:14 <[bjoern]> rakudo: token yo { 'yo' }; given "yo" { say m/<yo>/ }
18:52:17 <p6eval> rakudo 0e0671: OUTPUT«_block56»
18:52:21 <sbp> rakudo: for 1, 3, 5 ... * { say $_; }
18:52:23 <[bjoern]> so no keepall
18:52:24 <p6eval> rakudo 0e0671: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near "... * { sa"in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:0)»
18:52:40 <sbp> and no series construction
18:53:22 * clsn tries rebuilding his local perl6, see if it's new enough to have some of these coolnesses.
18:53:38 <sbp> rakudo: sub gcd ($a, $b) { ($a, $b ... { $^x % $^y || () })[*-1] }; is gcd(2, 1), 1, 'gcd with infix:<...> (1)';
18:53:39 <clsn> (tho srsly, I am majorly turned off to perl6 these days, which is too bad)
18:53:41 <p6eval> rakudo 0e0671: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near "... { $^x "in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:0)»
18:54:27 <[bjoern]> .o wa current time
18:54:30 <phenny> current time;11:54:30 am PDT -> Tuesday, June 23, 2009;12 hours 5 minutes 29 seconds;6 hours 5 minutes since sunrise (5:49 am);8 hours 39 minutes until sunset (8:33 pm);6:54:30 pm GMT -> Tuesday June 23, 2009
18:54:40 <[bjoern]> .o wa current week
18:54:42 <phenny> this->week;Sunday, June 21, 2009 to Saturday, June 27, 2009;2 days since June 21;4 days until June 27;Sunday, June 21: Father\'s Day;Wednesday, June 24: St. John the Baptist Day (religious day);June, Su->Mo->Tu->We->Th->Fr->Sa, ->1->2->3->4->5->6, 7->8->9->10->11->12->13, 14->15->16->17->18->19->20, 21->22->23->24->25->26->27, 28->29->30->->->-
18:55:02 <[bjoern]> THE HOWMANYTH I WANT TO KNOW
18:55:33 <[bjoern]> also, week starts at monday, you puny americanoid.
18:56:02 *** jeffarch has quit ("upgrade")
18:56:10 * nelix still has glazed eyes
18:56:13 <sbp> .wik Week
18:56:13 <phenny> "A week is a grouping of days or a division of a larger grouping such as a lunar month, year, etc. Most parts of the world currently use a seven-day week." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Week
18:56:59 <sbp> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven-day_week#Week_number
18:57:15 <nelix> sbp: can phenny do anchors?
18:57:31 <sbp> anchors?
18:57:40 <[bjoern]> Like a ship
18:57:44 <sbp> oh, nope
18:57:53 <sbp> rakudo: my @a = 1...{ $_ >= 3 ?? () !! $_ + 1 }; say @a;
18:57:56 <p6eval> rakudo 0e0671: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized valueUse of uninitialized valueMethod 'postcircumfix:{ }' not found for invocant of class 'Failure'»
18:58:16 <sbp> rakudo: my @a = 1...{ $_ >= 3 ?? () !! $_ + 1 }
18:58:19 <p6eval> rakudo 0e0671: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized valueUse of uninitialized valueMethod 'postcircumfix:{ }' not found for invocant of class 'Failure'»
18:59:00 <sbp> s/S02/S03/ above by the way
18:59:49 <[bjoern]> phenny, "Non tote le septimanas ha septe dies. Le calendario civil azteca habeva septimanas de cinque dies."?
18:59:50 <phenny> [bjoern]: "Do not tote the septimanas Septe he dies. The civil calendar septimanas de azteca habeva five dies." (it to en, translate.google.com)
19:00:15 *** jeffarch (n=jeff@70-41-156-138.cust.wildblue.net) has joined #swhack
19:02:06 *** lmorchard is now known as lmorchard|away
19:08:51 <sbp> hmm, so why *do* women tennis players grunt so much?
19:08:58 <sbp> these two are really going at it
19:09:11 <JibberJim> high carbohydrate diets lead to lots of farting...
19:09:11 <phenny> JibberJim: 15 Jun 18:12Z <sbp> ask JibberJim what happened to the #svg logs
19:09:16 <sbp> aha
19:09:26 <JibberJim> eek
19:09:30 <JibberJim> what happened to the svg logs?
19:09:34 <sbp> yeah, they've all gone!
19:09:42 <sbp> [bjoern] was looking for something in 'em
19:09:46 <[bjoern]> your server just gives your homepage
19:09:53 <sbp> and noticed there was no 'em to look through
19:10:26 <[bjoern]> surely you've noticed the sudden drop in ad revenue.
19:10:30 <JibberJim> hehe
19:10:43 <JibberJim> my ad revenues have been so low for ages, that I pretty much stopped looking
19:10:59 <[bjoern]> now you know why.
19:12:20 <JibberJim> <VirtualHost *:80>
19:12:20 <JibberJim> ServerAdmin jim@jibbering.com
19:12:20 <JibberJim> DocumentRoot "E:/htdocs/svglogs/"
19:12:20 <JibberJim> ServerName svg-logs.jibbering.com
19:12:21 <JibberJim> :(
19:12:57 <sbp> it's dead, Jim
19:13:03 <JibberJim> well it never existed
19:13:14 <JibberJim> but that's what the Apache config was set up for
19:13:28 <sbp> svg-logs never existed, or E:/etc.?
19:13:32 <JibberJim> svg-logs
19:13:36 <JibberJim> it was always just svg.
19:13:39 <sbp> aha
19:13:46 <sbp> can you not change the config yourself?
19:13:47 <[bjoern]> .gc "duplication machines" iran
19:13:47 <phenny> "duplication machines" iran: 165
19:14:46 <JibberJim> I can indeed, and am doing so
19:14:50 <sbp> cools
19:15:12 <JibberJim> hmm
19:15:14 <JibberJim> but it hasn't worked
19:15:25 <JibberJim> changed the config, bounced apache, but nothing happened :(
19:15:26 <sbp> give it a boot upside the port?
19:15:44 <[bjoern]> .leo boot
19:15:45 <phenny> boot = die Ansenkung, der Gepäckraum, der Laderaum, der Stiefel - Pl. die Stiefel
19:15:46 <phenny> boot (tech.) = der Faltenbalg, die Schutzmanschette
19:15:47 <phenny> boot (autom.) = der Kofferraum
19:15:48 <phenny> — http://dict.leo.org/ende?search=boot
19:15:55 <[bjoern]> .leo Boot
19:15:56 <phenny> boot = die Ansenkung, der Gepäckraum, der Laderaum, der Stiefel - Pl. die Stiefel
19:15:57 <phenny> boot (tech.) = der Faltenbalg, die Schutzmanschette
19:15:58 <phenny> boot (autom.) = der Kofferraum
19:15:58 <[bjoern]> fail
19:15:58 <phenny> — http://dict.leo.org/ende?search=Boot
19:16:56 <sbp> Boris Becker is on ye telly
19:17:14 <sbp> talking about Eastern European girls
19:17:47 <JibberJim> now I'm confused
19:18:08 <[bjoern]> That's because you aren't german
19:18:19 <JibberJim> I was in Germany last weke
19:18:27 <[bjoern]> me too!
19:18:29 <JibberJim> I spent around 20 minutes cycling through it
19:18:37 <sbp> cycling? [bjoern] too!
19:18:44 <[bjoern]> indeeed
19:18:53 <sbp> were you getting pissed on?
19:18:58 <JibberJim> did he manage to cycle through in only 20 minutes?
19:19:00 <sbp> because if so, that's uncanny...
19:19:02 <JibberJim> no it was nice and sunny
19:19:06 <sbp> ah
19:19:19 <sbp> you were in the German riviera I assume
19:19:26 <JibberJim> http://svg.jibbering.com/svg/
19:19:36 <sbp> great!
19:19:37 <JibberJim> but I need to sort out a proper index page and stuff
19:19:42 <sbp> now I should wget -np -r them or something
19:19:49 <JibberJim> btw
19:19:56 <JibberJim> they're at jibbering.com/svglogs/svg/ anyway
19:19:59 <JibberJim> always were
19:20:04 <sbp> ah...
19:20:59 <[bjoern]> nobody told google though
19:21:55 <sbp> .title http://timesonline.typepad.com/timesarchive/2009/06/why-did-bercow-drop-the-speakers-tights.html
19:21:55 <phenny> sbp: Times Archive Blog: Why did Bercow drop the Speaker's tights?
19:22:04 <sbp> .img Bercow in shorts
19:22:05 <phenny> sbp: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_9qjCRsJN53A/SCrobrBvLMI/AAAAAAAAAWQ/KQTiW-S8eGE/s320/bercow.jpg
19:22:06 <phenny> More here: http://images.google.com/images?q=Bercow%20in%20shorts
19:22:23 <kpreid> [[[
19:22:24 <kpreid> <ryant5000> where is the log of this chatroom?
19:22:24 <kpreid> <EvilTerran> ryant5000, in the /topic
19:22:24 <kpreid> <SamB> EvilTerran: nonsense
19:22:24 <kpreid> <SamB> it won't fit in the /topic!
19:22:25 <kpreid> <EvilTerran> SamB, sure, the channel wouldn't, but its logarithm should be small enough
19:22:26 <kpreid> ]]] -- #haskell
19:22:44 <sbp> .gc "making hay with the flower of British womanhood"
19:22:45 <phenny> "making hay with the flower of British womanhood": 1
19:22:57 *** sbp changed the topic to: "Swhack: Making hay with the flower of British womanhood"
19:24:07 <JibberJim> Is there any easy apache way to hide the .rdf and .txt's or change the order or something?
19:24:24 <sbp> hmm. if there's 20 MB of logs...
19:24:29 <sbp> .c 20 MB in bytes
19:24:30 <phenny> 20 megabytes = 20 971 520 bytes
19:24:53 <sbp> .c log(2**(20971520 * 8))
19:24:54 <phenny> sbp: Sorry, no result.
19:24:59 <sbp> hmm
19:25:57 <[bjoern]> rakudo should be able to, but you don't want it
19:27:02 <[bjoern]> .c 2^1023
19:27:02 <phenny> 2^1 023 = 8.98846567e307
19:27:05 <[bjoern]> .c 2^1024
19:27:05 <phenny> [bjoern]: Sorry, no result.
19:27:18 <[bjoern]> .c log 2^1023
19:27:18 <phenny> log(2^1 023) = 307.953686
19:27:24 <sbp> C6 = log(2 ^ (20971520 * 8))
19:27:24 <sbp> R6 = 50504452.597337
19:27:35 <[bjoern]> .o wa log(2**(20971520 * 8))
19:27:38 <phenny> log(2^(20971520 8));1.16290799680452034042797374238420632487413700621910242... x 10^8
19:29:40 <sbp> incidentally:
19:29:41 <sbp> C5 = 2 ^ (20971520 * 8)
19:29:41 <sbp> R5 = 3.9567353 x 10 ^ 50504452
19:30:11 <sbp> I love this calculator. you can't make it overflow!
19:30:15 <sbp> check out the madness...
19:30:49 <sbp> C7 = (2 ^ 1000000000)! ^ (2 ^ 100000000)!!!!!!
19:30:49 <sbp> R7 = 7 PT ( 1.1091953 x 10 ^ 30103007 )
19:30:54 <sbp> it's just so fucked up
19:31:36 <sbp> admittedly it does have to resort to its own syntax to express the results
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19:31:47 <sbp> but for example you could compare this number with something very similar to see which is bigger
19:31:54 <sbp> so it's not cheating
19:32:13 <sbp> (apparently it works by taking the logarithm again and again when it's in danger of overflowing)
19:32:24 <sbp> (and storing it in some clever format)
19:33:05 <[bjoern]> rakudo: say "Just another Perl6 hacker"
19:33:07 <p6eval> rakudo 0e0671: OUTPUT«Just another Perl6 hacker»
19:36:08 <sbp> oh, PT is tetration of a kind I think
19:36:08 <[bjoern]> .news POLSKIE RADIO 1
19:36:08 <phenny> [bjoern]: http://www.polskieradio.pl/thenews/culture/artykul110529_upper_house_votes_to_scrap_tv__radio_licence.html
19:36:38 <sbp> tetration(a, b) means a**a**a**a**... b times
19:37:13 <sbp> a pt b means tetration(10, a) ** b
19:37:19 <nslater> JibberJim: how do you mean hide?
19:37:21 <sbp> so...
19:37:26 <sbp> 20:30 <sbp> C7 = (2 ^ 1000000000)! ^ (2 ^ 100000000)!!!!!!
19:37:26 <sbp> 20:30 <sbp> R7 = 7 PT ( 1.1091953 x 10 ^ 30103007 )
19:37:29 <sbp> means...
19:37:44 <sbp> 10 ** 10 ** 10 ** 10 ** 10 ** 10 ** 10 ** ( 1.1091953 x 10 ^ 30103007 )
19:37:45 <JibberJim> as in not display them in a directory listing
19:37:46 <sbp> I think
19:37:49 <JibberJim> but still have them available
19:37:54 <nslater> ah
19:38:18 <[bjoern]> Stop it or Knuth will send you angry mails.
19:38:21 <sbp> overflow in this calculator is about (10^10) PT 1.0e300
19:38:23 <sbp> aye, heh
19:39:05 <nslater> JibberJim: it would have been here:
19:39:06 <nslater> http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod/mod_autoindex.html#indexoptions
19:40:02 <nslater> JibberJim: but doesn't look like it. I would guess you have two options: create your own index cgi , or use some fancy mod_rewrite to have the .rdf files in another location (this would require using .var files if you wanna conneg the rdf (though not sure that .var files let you specify variants in another dir))
19:40:53 <[bjoern]> there is indexignore
19:41:03 <[bjoern]> indexignore *.rdf *.txt
19:41:08 <nslater> http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod/mod_autoindex.html#indexignore
19:41:13 <nslater> woop, nice one [bjoern]
19:42:02 <JibberJim> cheers Bjoern!
19:45:33 <sbp> [[[
19:45:34 <sbp> Hypercalc is an open-source interpreted calculator program designed to
19:45:34 <sbp> calculate extremely large numbers (such as your phone number raised to
19:45:34 <sbp> the power of the factorial of the Federal budget deficit) without
19:45:34 <sbp> overflowing.
19:45:35 <sbp> ]]]
19:46:21 <[bjoern]> can it handle the total american debt?
19:47:48 <sbp> well I did say that the overflow is at (10^10) PT 1.0e300
19:48:38 <[bjoern]> How about the 9th busy beaver number?
19:48:53 <sbp> I'd guess that exceeds the overflow
19:50:38 <sbp> does it exceed the total American debt?
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19:51:01 <[bjoern]> good bounds are unknown for both.
19:52:07 <sbp> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/54/InfinitePowerTower.gif
19:52:14 <sbp> INFINITE POWER TOWER might help somehow
19:52:58 <sbp> http://timesonline.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451586c69e20115714752e3970b-800wi
19:53:49 <sbp> woah!
19:53:55 <sbp> end of Kodachrome!
19:54:22 <sbp> Paul Simon won't be happy
19:56:10 *** lmorchard|away is now known as lmorchard
19:56:25 <sbp> "it's problematic to start fetishising print media"
19:56:45 <sbp> — one of the representatives of British womanhood on the news
19:57:35 <[bjoern]> http://www.derwesten.de/static/nachrichten/7759/12457720033120/53804977_23943082_slide.jpg
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20:35:52 <Charl> Is any of you familiar with www.novamente.net?
20:41:10 <clsn> hypercalc is, in fact, really cool.
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20:51:26 <thelsdj> anyone know how to get USPS to parse belgium address correctly?
20:51:35 <thelsdj> 1851 Grimberen
20:51:43 <thelsdj> 1851 is similar to zip whats the Grimberen?
20:51:55 <[bjoern]> .wik Grimberen
20:51:56 <phenny> Can't find anything in Wikipedia for "Grimberen".
20:52:08 <thelsdj> is that like a county/region or something?
20:52:18 <[bjoern]> .wik Grimbergen
20:52:18 <phenny> "Grimbergen is a municipality in the province of Flemish Brabant, in Flanders, one of the three regions of Belgium." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grimbergen
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20:52:59 <thelsdj> ah hmm, maybe was just missing the g
20:57:54 <thelsdj> google maps says 1851 grimbergen is Humbeek which matches the persons whois information on their domain name
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20:58:46 <[bjoern]> Wikipedia says the same; I was going to add that, but then was concerned you might send to "1851 Humbeek" which should not be a problem, but you never know...
20:59:25 <thelsdj> the person didn't mention humbeek when asked for their address, depends on what USPS really wants/needs i guess
21:00:14 <[bjoern]> the municipality is only really there to aid OCR I would imagine.
21:01:58 <[bjoern]> (the zip code, oddly, is there to aid humans, as they rarely realise the ambiguity in the names; like we have two Frankfurts, say).
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22:36:20 <[bjoern]> "W3C Launches Open Web Education Alliance Incubator Group"
22:36:31 <[bjoern]> ah, pity, they almost got "Oweia"
22:37:03 <[bjoern]> ~ oh dear, uh oh, ...
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22:53:07 <thelsdj> origin of the hi, bye bear from shitrude.com! http://www.divinecaroline.com/24133/77223-silhouette-masterpiece-theater
22:54:14 <[bjoern]> I am responsible for the hoodies and semi responsible for the type writer; not sure about the tampon.
22:55:03 <thelsdj> triangle is d8uv
23:16:54 <[bjoern]> phenny, tell sbp http://www.titanic-magazin.de/news.html?&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=2978&tx_ttnews[backPid]=3&cHash=fc933ea13a
23:16:54 <phenny> [bjoern]: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
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23:52:46 <jsled> .u –
23:52:46 <phenny> U+2013 EN DASH (–)
