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00:25:51 <Monty> hey isolated
00:26:15 <[bjoern]> You should think about that one again Monty.
00:26:20 <Monty> Mere materialists would enable a copy of Defence document advising staff how could have children with grep
00:26:39 <[bjoern]> Monty: what makes oyu think Mere materialists would enable a copy of Defence document advising staff how could have children with grep ?
00:26:43 <Monty> comparison: http://i.thisislondon.co.uk/i/pix/2009/11/kellycakes500.jpg
00:26:52 <[bjoern]> Good point.
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03:30:00 <Monty> howdy, sivy
03:30:00 <Monty> But what does CaptSolo have to do with the price of fish?
03:30:00 <Monty> yo griff!
03:30:00 <Monty> bah, it's nsh again
03:30:00 <Monty> Speak of the devil, it's treed!
03:30:10 <Monty> But what does _ulises have to do with the price of fish?
03:30:12 <Monty> But what does MacTed have to do with the price of fish?
03:30:13 <Monty> Thank goodness, Jibbler is back!
03:30:15 <Monty> howdy, loggy
03:31:11 <BigJibby> Monty: are you Canadian?
03:31:11 <Monty> Thanks
03:31:21 <BigJibby> You're welcome, Monty
03:31:23 <Monty> satisfying NBBhav drinks incidental Ovaltine!
03:31:42 <BigJibby> What are you talking aboot, Monty?
03:31:44 <Monty> smells is saline and aquatic!!!
03:32:00 <BigJibby> well, that's dumb
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03:43:00 <Monty> hi lisppaste2, how ya doing?
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04:08:29 <[bjoern]> phenny, tell sbp http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/the-billion-dollar-gram/
04:08:29 <phenny> [bjoern]: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
04:10:44 <[bjoern]> Some of the numbers are somewhat questionable.
04:11:25 <[bjoern]> like the us defense budget, or the german bailout
04:11:53 <[bjoern]> the russian bribes bit does not say over what time period.
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04:12:25 <Monty> Thank goodness, kpreid is back!
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07:49:49 <[bjoern]> There are over 50 <script> elements on news bbc co uk these days?
07:53:55 <[bjoern]> serious issues with the site here, lots of lost packets, basically the site does not load at all...
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09:36:20 <Monty> hi nwalsh, how ya doing?
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09:59:06 <nsh> boing
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10:14:22 <sbp> yo
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10:16:29 <MoiraA> hello sbp
10:19:43 <sbp> hey MoiraA
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11:20:26 <MoiraA> solved!
11:20:37 <MoiraA> it's ninza's live feed
11:21:05 <MoiraA> (my computer was coughing and singing at me)
11:23:13 <sbp> what, audio feed?
11:24:06 <MoiraA> must be
11:25:14 <sbp> oh, was it in a browser tab or somesuch?
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11:31:43 <MoiraA> http://www.networked.se/
11:31:46 <MoiraA> this
11:32:57 <sbp> ahh, right, one of those things
11:33:03 <sbp> I always found them slightly creepy
11:33:20 <sbp> though there was even that one guy in San Francisco who put his whole life on one of those things
11:33:29 <sbp> had a webcam on his hat or something, always on 24/7
11:33:46 <sbp> I remember having a look, and he was in an extremely noisy bar
11:33:59 <sbp> and all you could see were drunk people zooming about
11:34:14 <sbp> and the noise was overloaded by the signal and was just some kind of lorry-like vibrating noise
11:35:50 <MoiraA> yeah, well hopefully ninza isn't planning that
11:36:04 <MoiraA> it was just an experiment to see if he could set it up
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12:28:21 <Monty> it's Morbus!
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15:19:11 <edsu> sbp: ping
15:24:20 <edsu> sbp: was going to ask you about previous work you had done w/ atom and rdf
15:27:55 <sbp> edsu: pong
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15:46:26 <[bjoern]> yoings.
15:46:56 <sbp> gutenyo
15:47:51 <sbp> please say something which will make everybody's Swhack Experience for the day complete
15:49:25 <[bjoern]> Lately a complete swhack experience is rather incomplete. So, unpossible.
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15:50:40 <[bjoern]> .title http://rawstory.com/2009/11/ambassador-cia-people-tortured/
15:50:42 <phenny> [bjoern]: Former UK ambassador: CIA sent people to be ‘raped with broken bottles’ | Raw Story
15:51:34 <sbp> sent them to which country?
15:51:51 <[bjoern]> I am not your travel consultant.
15:52:04 <sbp> is any country considered to be broken bottle rapists par excellence?
15:52:11 <sbp> what are you, then?
15:52:34 <[bjoern]> ignorant of my true purpose, if anyone asks.
15:54:02 <sbp> I'm sure we can make a true purpose up for you
15:54:15 <sbp> if you were to remunerate us with the appropriate goods or services...
15:54:22 <[bjoern]> "In a confidential internal document leaked to the Financial Times, Craig Murray said Uzbek officials abused prisoners to extract information. The intelligence was used by MI6 after being passed on by the CIA, he alleges. ... The Foreign Office has responded saying the British government, including intelligence agencies, has never used torture to obtain information or incited others to do so."
15:55:36 <sbp> their morals are made of plasticine
15:58:51 <[bjoern]> So newsbbc had serious load issues this morning, now I've measured the main page's insanity in more detail:
15:59:12 <[bjoern]> loading it triggers 168 requests to 17 different hosts
16:00:07 <[bjoern]> rather unsure why, say, doubleclick and gooleads are among them
16:01:01 <[bjoern]> around 850KB transfer size
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16:05:07 <sbp> gooleads? hehe
16:05:10 <sbp> .wik Goole
16:05:11 <phenny> "Goole is a town, civil parish and port located approximately 45 miles (72 km) inland on the River Ouse in the East Riding of Yorkshire, England." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goole
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16:05:52 <sbp> did you use Yahoo! Site Thingy to see how brilliant bbc.co.uk is?
16:09:28 <[bjoern]> Mime types:
16:09:30 <[bjoern]> 34 application/x-javascript
16:09:30 <[bjoern]> 58 image/gif
16:09:30 <[bjoern]> 26 image/jpeg
16:09:30 <[bjoern]> 1 image/png
16:09:30 <[bjoern]> 11 text/css
16:09:31 <[bjoern]> 4 text/html
16:09:33 <[bjoern]> 7 text/javascript
16:09:35 <[bjoern]> 3 text/plain
16:09:53 <[bjoern]> No just wireshark with some tools
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16:10:49 <[bjoern]> 41 external scripts is probably a couple more than necessary
16:12:12 <[bjoern]> a total of 8 resources used gzip compression
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16:22:03 <[bjoern]> I'd quite like to have a proper analysis tool, but my efforts at making one had one somewhat insurmountable issue, there is no proper open source library that does ip defragmentation and tcp reassembly from pcap files so you could put your own http "dissector" on top of it to do interesting things with it. There is about one library and it's not very good.
16:22:28 <[bjoern]> Well there is snort which has somewhat excellent, relatively speaking, support for that, but it's in no way a library
16:23:01 <[bjoern]> I was promised eternal bliss when snort3 is released, but that's still not there, and the beta does not make it very obvious how you'd go about using it
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16:29:16 <[bjoern]> So Google Dashboard supposedly lets me control what data google stores about me. How would I, not having an account, use it to delete everything?
16:29:44 <[bjoern]> from screenshots it does not appear like there is any such control at all
16:31:19 <[bjoern]> Seems just the usual google privacy smoke screen.
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17:23:25 <sbp> you'd have to sign up, then use the Dashboard to say "pretend my signing up never happened" perhaps
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18:07:47 <[bjoern]> Treemap of german economy by revenue and industrial sector http://www.websitedev.de/temp/umsatz-nach-wirtschaftszwei.png (with a few pieces missing, very small businesses and businesses that pay close to no vat, from what i understand anyway).
18:08:56 <[bjoern]> I wonder where the "...g-2007" went from the file name...
18:09:14 <[bjoern]> hit a 32 chat limit or something?
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18:17:09 <[bjoern]> (amounts to a bit over five trillion eur)
18:25:20 <edsu> sbp: still 'round?
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18:25:37 <sbp> edsu: yeah, kinda
18:26:18 <edsu> sbp: i ran across some stuff you did w/ mark pilgrim & co on rdf and atom
18:27:24 <[bjoern]> And why would sbp want to recall anything about that?
18:27:25 <edsu> sbp: mainly http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2003/08/20/dive.html and some related wanderings
18:27:35 <edsu> [bjoern]: :-o
18:28:34 <sbp> yeah, I made an Atom Extensibility Framework with Ken MacLeod and Sjoerd Visscher
18:28:56 <sbp> what's the Q?
18:28:56 <edsu> sbp: i recently have been feeling like i'm having a bit of a mental breakdown trying to understand why the atom and rdf camps exist
18:29:26 <sbp> the atom camp exists because RSS 1.0 and 2.0 were so messed up
18:29:28 <edsu> sbp: and john cowan suggested (i think as a joke) that maybe working on an atom serialization for rdf would help
18:29:50 <sbp> the RDF camp exists because TimBL said it would be cool
18:30:15 <edsu> what was so wrong about rss1.0 and 2.0?
18:30:48 <edsu> was it just social stuff?
18:30:51 <sbp> well, loads of things, but as a specific example, it was never really decided how many times payloads ought to be encoded, so user agents basically were using heuristic
18:30:58 <sbp> nope, surprisingly there were some real problems
18:31:05 <sbp> not tons, admittedly
18:31:16 <sbp> *using heuristics
18:32:38 <edsu> so the Atom Extensibility Framework eh? i hadn't run across that yet -- thanks
18:33:11 <edsu> i figured this was a road you were on years ago
18:33:11 <Monty> mmm and alt-tabbing between irc and disable replication from what does ip defragmentation and port located approximately 45 miles (72 km) inland on those AspireRevos. We got two boxes set
18:33:24 <sbp> edsu: well I did that, and another approach I took was RSS 1.1
18:33:48 <edsu> right i think that was around the time i started to watch what was going on in here
18:34:07 <edsu> so was rss1.1 at attempt to bring the atom and rdf folks closer together?
18:34:19 <edsu> s/at/an/
18:35:16 <sbp> not really. we just figured that RSS 1.0 did have problems in the way that Atom meant to address, but that there didn't seem to be any reason to take a sledgehammer to it
18:35:29 <sbp> so we made RSS 1.1 to just incrementally snip all the problems out
18:35:29 *** [bjoern] changed the topic to: "<jessica> why is it that everyone wants to sodomise me? are you sure i'm not in a channel full of greeks? | <Monty2> We could live without modern art, eh? | <edsu> s/at/an/"
18:35:41 <sbp> haha
18:35:55 <sbp> "why did he to... ahaha! awesome"
18:40:33 <edsu> sbp: thanks ... it's nice to be able to pop into #swhack and get context like that
18:40:58 <sbp> yw
18:41:20 <sbp> there was all kinds of stuff going on around the Atom days
18:41:29 <sbp> you should look in innumerable blog and mailing list archives one day
18:41:34 <sbp> and go slowly crazy that way
18:41:38 <edsu> this guy niklas lindstrom sent me this http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/semantic-web/2008Jul/0099.html
18:41:48 <edsu> sbp: heh, i think that's what i've been doing :)
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18:44:00 <sbp> oh that's lols. the Atom/RDF stuff is still going on? man
18:44:13 <edsu> i think it's still going on yeah
18:44:34 <sbp> reminds me of when someone asked John Paul Jones, the bassist for Led Zeppelin who was a session musician for loads of major people in the '60s, what he thought about the '60s music revival
18:44:40 <edsu> the thing that got me a bit riled up was that linked data design doc getting rdf and sparql shoved into the 'rules' of linked data
18:44:43 <sbp> and he was like, "well it's kinda boring. I already spent a decade doing that..."
18:44:50 <sbp> made me chox
18:45:04 <edsu> heheh
18:48:56 <edsu> sbp: so john clearly knew about your work in this area i imagine
18:49:11 <edsu> sbp: so he was just getting a chuckle most likely :-)
18:49:43 <edsu> . o O (rightly so)
18:50:04 <edsu> the thing i really liked about that Linked Data design doc was its ambiguity
18:50:46 <sbp> he probably doesn't know about the AEF
18:50:54 <sbp> everybody knows about RSS 1.1 though
18:51:00 <sbp> it's probably one of my best jokes
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18:53:53 <[bjoern]> do we have any adobe flex users here?
18:54:58 <MacTed> .ety "rung down the curtain"
18:54:58 <phenny> Can't find the etymology for "None". Try http://etymonline.com/?search=None
18:55:05 <MacTed> .ety rung down the curtain
18:55:05 <phenny> Can't find the etymology for "rung down the curtain". Try http://etymonline.com/?search=rung down the curtain
18:55:33 <sbp> [bjoern]: what makes you think they'd be willing to admit it?
18:55:43 <[bjoern]> This is Swhack.
18:56:02 <sbp> why is it that everyone wants to sodomize jessica?
18:56:09 <sbp> This is Swhack.
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18:56:37 <[bjoern]> There was also the trojan horse incident with greek influx.
18:56:41 <sbp> wow, something depressingly, depressingly strange happened
18:56:46 <sbp> I transcribed the topic
18:56:52 <sbp> but I used -ize in sodomise
18:56:59 <sbp> whereas jessica had used *-ise* correctly
18:57:11 <[bjoern]> autosodomization.
18:57:15 <sbp> yeah, I have sodomised my own spelling
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19:11:19 <deltab> en-GB-oed
19:15:41 <sbp> yeah... yeah.. that must be it. I'm too used to the OED...
19:21:56 <MoiraA> sbp I am reeling from what I just spent
19:22:05 <MoiraA> near enough ?2k
19:22:27 <MoiraA> and that is with a saving of ?200 on the solid state hdd
19:22:33 <MoiraA> getting it from OCUK
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19:26:51 <sbp> wow, that is quite expensive
19:27:22 <sbp> worth it though
19:28:07 <MoiraA> definitelelt
19:28:09 <MoiraA> err
19:28:35 <MoiraA> something like that
19:28:43 <sbp> :-)
19:30:23 <[bjoern]> Okay figured out how to shove my data into this flash thingy http://www.flextoolbox.com/components/treemap/2/examples/LayoutModes/LayoutModes.html now need to figure out some more reasonable grouping...
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19:35:28 <MoiraA> have we a maths bot?
19:35:31 <MoiraA> 230 * sqrt(2) = 325
19:35:36 <MoiraA> true or false?
19:35:43 <[bjoern]> false.
19:35:54 <[bjoern]> That's obvious because sqrt 2 is not integral
19:36:01 <[bjoern]> .c 230 * sqrt(2)
19:36:01 <phenny> 230 * sqrt(2) = 325.269119
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19:41:58 <[bjoern]> .t
19:41:59 <phenny> Thu, 05 Nov 2009 19:41:58 GMT
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20:01:15 <[bjoern]> this is how just the "trade" branch would come out http://www.websitedev.de/temp/umsatz-nach-wirtschaftszweigen-2007-handel.png
20:05:57 <sbp> this is nowhere near as good at the billions-gram
20:06:17 <[bjoern]> I thank you for your encouragement.
20:06:29 <[bjoern]> There is a lot of cheating and manual selection in that one though.
20:06:51 <[bjoern]> I suppose you also object to all the german abbreviations there
20:07:10 <[bjoern]> This follows a formal scheme, if you have an english translation...
20:07:29 <[bjoern]> ("Klassifikation der Wirtschaftszweige, Ausgabe 2003 (WZ 2003)")
20:08:00 <[bjoern]> there is an english version but it's pdf
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20:22:53 <sbp> s/at/as/
20:23:27 <sbp> I thought the German abbreviations were the best thing about it
20:23:53 <sbp> I also like the word "Kraftwagen"
20:23:57 <MoiraA> sbp: I have had to give the cloak I wwanted to paige
20:24:07 <MoiraA> better someone wears it
20:24:10 <sbp> hmm?
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20:47:14 <Monty> yo eel!
20:48:53 <deltab> Channel 4 News has two items about search engines now: Google Dashboard, and Ancestry.com's data about soldiers
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22:57:38 <[bjoern]> .u
22:57:38 <Monty> "you"
22:57:39 <phenny> U+0095 (No name found)
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23:58:09 <Monty> bah, it's nwalsh_ again
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