2010-01-27 Swhack IRC Log

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11:42:20 <farmer.freenode.net> Topic for #swhack is: Our Interest in Penis is Rather Marginal (margin: 2.5em)
11:42:20 <farmer.freenode.net> Users on #swhack: loggy mmmmmrob Talliesin edsu ephemerian libby griff p6eval jeanniecool nogagplz jeffarch cori[s] kpreid MacTed jessica dmiles davisp CIA-74 JibberJim xjrn scottrageous MoiraA tav lmorchard|away tobbez clsn Tene xxv_ archels sbp CaptSolo deltab treed nslater sivy shepazu realist tro maxkelley l7 phenny nsh _ulises- spb jsled Jibbler2 BigJibby Arnia
11:43:03 <sbp> <nslater> ive not noticed any bot attacks
11:43:11 <sbp> there were loads in #perl6
11:43:16 <sbp> none elsewhere that I'm in
11:43:56 <sbp> I did not load the Tumblr link
11:44:09 <sbp> after interpreting [bjoern]'s many layers of irony
11:44:16 <sbp> and deciding that I can't give an arse
11:45:14 *** sbp changed the topic to: "Swhack: it's a tcp connection, and the word "dick" a few times"
11:47:07 <sbp> <treed> And would it be "Master's Thesis" -> "Masters' Theses"?
11:47:14 <sbp> I believe it's Master's theses
11:47:33 <sbp> because Master's refers to the... degree of the degree, not the people
11:47:49 <sbp> but iuno, consult your friendly local style guide for more informed opinion
11:57:06 * sbp reads the mac news roundups
11:58:06 <sbp> haha
11:58:09 <sbp> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISlate is GREAT right now
11:58:20 <sbp> “This page may meet Wikipedia’s criteria for speedy deletion as a blatant and obvious hoax. This only applies to cases where the deception is so obvious as to constitute pure vandalism. See CSD G3.”
12:00:19 <sbp> .title http://www.macrumors.com/2010/01/27/last-minute-leaked-photos-of-apple-tablet/
12:00:19 <phenny> sbp: Last Minute Leaked Photos of Apple Tablet? - Mac Rumors
12:01:58 <sbp> “Work spaces are typically monitored by security cameras, this employee said. Some Apple workers in the most critical product-testing rooms must cover up devices with black cloaks when they are working on them, and turn on a red warning light when devices are unmasked so that everyone knows to be extra-careful, he said.”
12:02:35 <sbp> .title http://www.macrumors.com/2010/01/26/the-apple-tablet-rumor-roundup/
12:02:36 <phenny> sbp: The Apple Tablet Rumor Roundup - Mac Rumors
12:03:34 <sbp> “All reports have pointed to the use of the advanced Cortex A9 ARM processor in Apple's upcoming tablet. The use of this next generation processor should allow for good performance and relatively long battery life.”
12:04:23 <sbp> “Apple has applied for trademarks for both iSlate and iPad. While it's possible Apple may have ultimately decided to go a different direction, the iPad application process remains ongoing with filings as recent as this month, making this seem to be the most likely candidate.”
12:04:33 <sbp> good, I think I prefer iPad to iSlate
12:07:40 <sbp> “At this point, yes, an Apple tablet is all but a given. If Apple doesn’t make the announcement on Wednesday the faithful (and the shareholders) are likely to torch the village.”
12:07:42 <sbp> — http://www.appletell.com/apple/comment/across.-four-letters.-apples-newly-announced-_-_-_-_-...-ipad/
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12:10:09 <sbp> ‘Mobile analytics firm Furry released new statistics this week on what it claims are approximately 50 devices that were "reliably" placed on Apple's campus. The company has alleged that the devices are pre-release tablets in testing, and that testing increased dramatically in January. Such devices were first spotted in October of 2009.’
12:10:15 <sbp> — http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/01/25/analytics_firm_spots_50_suspected_apple_tablets_running_iphone_os_3_2.html
12:11:00 <sbp> confusion about the OS though
12:11:02 <sbp> “He also said that some devices testing iPhone OS 4.0 have been spotted -- but they leave the Cupertino campus, while those running iPhone OS 3.2 do not.”
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13:30:05 <sivy> http://www.thedoghousediaries.com/
13:30:38 <sivy> "20 things i already know about Apple's ultra-hyped iTablet/iSlate"
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16:16:33 <Talliesin> There's prior art on iPad.
16:16:42 <Talliesin> I have a paper notepad called that.
16:17:02 <Talliesin> As an obvious joke on existing Apple trademarks. I wonder what the position is in this case.
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16:57:42 <[bjoern]> ~
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17:31:04 * sbp tries to entice applers Swhackwards
17:31:07 <sbp> yo
17:31:40 <sbp> okay, so Gizmodo was pretty good last time as far as I recall
17:31:50 <sbp> pretty much the only site which stayed up solidly?
17:32:38 <sbp> http://live.gizmodo.com/
17:32:39 <Morbus> i'm working on my enchanting.
17:32:45 <sbp> http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/27/live-from-the-apple-tablet-latest-creation-event/?sort=newest&refresh=60
17:33:02 <sbp> hehe. I just got like a million emblems
17:34:34 <Arnia> Stephen Fry and Jonathan Ive photo together
17:34:53 <Arnia> http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/appletablet/appletablet1.jpg
17:35:49 <Arnia> "I heard that Jason Calacanis has an Apple tablet that is powered entirely by an encapsulated ego dynamo that orbits the black hole in his brain where most people have a sense of humor."
17:36:55 <sbp> http://www.macworld.com/article/145805/2010/01/apple_event.html?lsrc=top_1
17:37:30 <Morbus> the hell is that?
17:37:33 <sbp> http://theappleblog.com/live/
17:37:48 <sbp> http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/01/tablet-live-event-liveblog.ars
17:38:11 <sbp> http://live.gdgt.com/2010/01/27/live-apple-come-see-our-latest-creation-tablet-event-coverage/
17:38:21 <sbp> http://twitter.com/macrumors
17:38:34 <sbp> http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/article7004485.ece
17:38:38 <Morbus> sbp: 103 more quests before seeker!
17:38:59 <sbp> http://live.slashgear.com/
17:39:05 <sbp> Morbus: sweet. close!
17:39:24 <sbp> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/7083063/Apple-tablet-release---live.html
17:39:50 <Arnia> Even the Torygraph?
17:39:50 <Arnia> wow
17:39:52 <sbp> Gizmodo: “I hope Apple announces a tablet that makes us all understand why we inexplicably crave a tablet.”
17:39:53 <sbp> yeah
17:40:35 <sbp> I'm keeping these all open in tabs
17:40:42 <sbp> and moving the better ones left and the worse ones right
17:40:54 <Arnia> how... organised
17:41:09 <Morbus> i'm at 425 enchanting now.
17:41:10 <Morbus> heh.
17:42:32 <sbp> but Gizmodo and Engadget look like the only ones worth following
17:42:43 <Morbus> agree.
17:43:48 <Arnia> chair with table?
17:43:50 <Arnia> hmmmm
17:44:18 <Morbus> :D
17:44:37 <sbp> Arnia: perhaps the table is the device!
17:44:43 <sbp> or... or, the chair is!
17:44:55 <Arnia> Or the air between the table and the chair is! omg
17:44:57 <Morbus> there, 426 enchanting. and that should be my last rod. woot.
17:45:03 <sbp> http://c0581892.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/apple-tablet-keynote_001.jpg
17:45:04 <Morbus> APPLE IS SELLIGN AIR NOW?!
17:45:05 <sbp> photo of it
17:45:07 <Morbus> i am so there.
17:45:17 <Morbus> pretty comfy chair
17:45:17 <sbp> looks like an armchair?
17:45:20 <Morbus> i'd buy it.
17:45:21 <sbp> and a weird mushroom glass table
17:45:22 <sbp> hehe
17:45:40 <Arnia> how... unusual
17:45:50 <sbp> “There’s a small Saarinen table on stage, as well as a Le Corbusier seat”
17:45:58 <sbp> this is from gdgt: http://live.gdgt.com/2010/01/27/live-apple-come-see-our-latest-creation-tablet-event-coverage/
17:46:01 <sbp> moved it left :-)
17:46:04 <Arnia> Gizmodo seems a bit facial hair obsessed
17:46:19 <sbp> well they're in the bathroom
17:46:48 <sbp> http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0005-rm-eng.jpg
17:47:00 <sbp> hey, they're playing Dylan
17:47:02 <sbp> wonder which song
17:47:13 <Arnia> gdgt has a better view
17:47:33 <sbp> http://cdn.cloudfiles.mosso.com/c71692/media/image/201001/phpianRyoIMG00089-20100127-0944.jpg
17:47:55 <sbp> http://cdn.cloudfiles.mosso.com/c71692/media/image/201001/phpAAMkmpIMG00087-20100127-0941.jpg
17:48:13 <sbp> http://slashgear.smugmug.com/Electronics/Apple-Tablet/20100127094150/774735621_sJbwd-M.jpg
17:48:48 <sbp> "According to CNBC, Disney Chairman and CEO Bob Iger is at the event, presumably to announce content deals with Apple.Starts in about 15 mins" - macrumours
17:49:05 <sbp> Dan Moren: It's a packed house here. I felt like a salmon swimming upstream on my way in.
17:49:49 <sbp> TAB: “They're treating Mossberg like royalty.”
17:49:53 <sbp> who's Mossberg?
17:50:01 <Morbus> wall street journal apple reporter.
17:50:04 <Morbus> always pushing their product.
17:50:09 <sbp> aha
17:50:19 <sbp> http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0005-rm-eng.jpg
17:50:33 <sbp> er sorry, already posted that one
17:50:39 <sbp> the problem with shuffling tabs... :-)
17:51:00 <sbp> better view of those splash of colours posters: http://c0581892.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/apple-tablet-keynote_002.jpg
17:51:10 <sbp> “House WiFi is crazy slow right now, hopefully things hold out for the event!”
17:51:18 <Arnia> I feel like I've been told off: "Before things really get cooking, you can also track all the stories that we’ll be doing over the next couple of hours Twitter and Facebook. Or you could also go to the front page but that’s not very social." (Giz)
17:51:22 <sbp> http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/appletablet/appletabletb20.jpg
17:51:30 <sbp> chuckle
17:51:37 <sbp> you're being social in here
17:52:06 <Morbus> 400 tailoring!
17:52:10 <sbp> --
17:52:11 <sbp> 9:51AM The electric version of 'Baby Let Me Follow You Down' -- in case you were wondering.
17:52:11 <sbp> 9:50AM So, more Dylan. We swear, if Bob Dylan shows up at this event, we're going to seriously freak out. In a good way.
17:52:11 <sbp> --
17:52:19 <Arnia> 23 skidoo!
17:52:21 <sbp> nice, BLMFYD 1966 I'd guess
17:52:34 <sbp> great version
17:53:12 <sbp> they're not the only ones to comment on Dylan (this it was engadget)
17:53:15 <sbp> "Bob Dylan playing in the background. Dylan = tablet. Obviously" — TAB
17:53:26 <sbp> Slashgear: Music today is Bob Dylan, there have been several tracks by him so far.
17:53:37 <sbp> Jason Snell: Lots of Bob Dylan playing before the event.
17:53:44 <sbp> Dan Moren: Right now we're playing "I Spy" with celebs.
17:53:56 <Morbus> tailoring 410!
17:54:21 <Arnia> Scary photo of Mossberg on Giz
17:54:21 * sbp drops the Times tab, which is terrible
17:54:29 <Morbus> poserurs
17:54:29 <sbp> chuckle, yeah
17:54:36 <sbp> http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/appletablet/appletabletb26.jpg
17:54:55 <sbp> Gizmodo: We’re still about 10 minutes away from the event starting. I wonder if the guys backstage are vomiting from nervousness. I would be.
17:55:09 <Arnia> Jubilant is an odd word to describe their mood
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17:55:20 <Arnia> Happy, relaxed, yes. Jubilant?
17:55:27 <sbp> chuckle, Jason Chen is in good form tonight
17:55:33 <sbp> Chen: There are so many video cameras here from so many TV stations that I’m afraid to pick my nose, lest I end up on some station’s B-Roll that they’ll air some time tonight. Ahh, screw it, here I go anyway.
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17:55:44 <Arnia> Is it just them using words they don't understand?
17:55:59 <sbp> I'd be jubilant if I were an exec
17:56:08 <sbp> (gdgt)
17:56:17 <sbp> http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0025-rm-eng.jpg
17:56:22 <sbp> those posters again
17:56:37 <sbp> en: 9:55AM Sitting next Jim Dalrymple from The Loop... who's currently dealing with the aforementioned WiFi issues.
17:56:46 <Arnia> Aren't joystiq partnered with Engadget?
17:56:55 <Morbus> owned by same parent company
17:56:56 <sbp> slashgear: They’re asking us to silence cellphones – the program will begin shortly
17:56:56 <Arnia> Such camaraderie
17:57:14 <sbp> you guessed it: http://cdn.cloudfiles.mosso.com/c71692/media/image/201001/php7QmHiQDSC_0121.JPG
17:57:45 <sbp> G: Lam: http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/appletablet/appletabletb23.jpg
17:58:05 <Arnia> Al Gore?
17:58:13 <sbp> Al Gore photo: http://c0581892.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/apple-tablet-keynote_004.jpg
17:58:20 <Arnia> There is a lot of Apple in that room
17:58:37 <chx> I am almost 100% it wont be a tablet.
17:58:48 <sbp> slashgear: “WiFi in this venue is, as expected, pretty bad. We’ve brought along a MiFi for our connectivity today.”
17:58:51 <sbp> chx: hehe
17:59:23 <Morbus> sbp: DEs sent. about 150g
17:59:31 <sbp> something on the table: Jason Snell: There's a leather easy chair on stage, with a small circular white table next to it with something on it....
17:59:34 <sbp> Morbus: oh nice, thanks!
17:59:38 <sbp> really, that much? great
17:59:51 <Morbus> yeah, that's my market prices.
18:00:00 <sbp> Chen: Apple’s playing a live recording of a Dylan concert. Unless Dylan is backstage, complete with an audience, that is. You never know!
18:00:05 <sbp> guess they're playing all of Live 1966
18:00:12 <sbp> note that Live 1966 was a revolutionary concert
18:00:24 <sbp> lots of people didn't like it, and Dylan got booed and just played awesome and very loud music
18:00:49 <sbp> gdgt: 9:59AM - Yep, all Dylan jams this time. This is definitely a Steve event.
18:00:55 <clsn> http://www.xtranormal.com/ ... weird... not yet thought of a good use for it.
18:00:59 <sivy> > "you have entered a stage with a table and chair. there is something on the table"
18:01:04 <sbp> http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0033-rm-eng.jpg
18:01:12 <sbp> can you see anything on the table there?
18:01:31 <sbp> 10:00AM The lights are going down... here we go!
18:01:42 <sbp> Vincent Nguyen - 10:01.AM
18:01:43 <sbp> Steve Jobs is coming on-stage
18:01:51 <sbp> Gore: http://slashgear.smugmug.com/Electronics/Apple-Tablet/P1040063/774744647_foY6R-M.jpg
18:02:01 <sbp> Chen: I would love to liveblog a Dylan presentation. I could make up any text I wanted and nobody would doubt it, since nobody could decipher his mumblings anyway.
18:02:11 <sbp> Jobs: http://c0581892.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/apple-tablet-keynote_006.jpg
18:02:11 <Morbus> sbp: i can make frostweave bags now! ;)
18:02:14 <sbp> cool
18:02:31 <sbp> 10:02AM - “Good morning, and thank you all for coming today. We want to kick off 2010 by introducing a truly magical and revolutionary new product.”
18:02:43 <sbp> 10:02AM "We want to kick of 2010 by introducing a magical and revolutionary product today... but first I have a few updates."
18:02:44 <sivy> it;'s the iGasm!
18:02:47 <sbp> hehe
18:02:49 <Morbus> heheh
18:02:58 <Arnia> 250 millionth?!
18:03:07 <Arnia> bloody hell
18:03:09 <sbp> http://c0581892.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/apple-tablet-keynote_009.jpg
18:03:11 <sbp> yeah, wow
18:03:16 <sbp> 10:02AM - “Before we get to that, I’ve got a few updates.” Chuckles. “First: iPods. A few weeks ago we sold our 250 millionth iPod.” Big applause.
18:03:26 <sbp> 10:02AM - “I didn’t want to let this one pass without recognizing that it’s pretty amazing. Second update: retail stores. We have 284 retail stores, it’s amazing.”
18:03:37 <sbp> http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0044-rm-eng.jpg
18:03:51 <sbp> http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0047-rm-eng.jpg
18:04:02 <sbp> http://slashgear.smugmug.com/Electronics/Apple-Tablet/P1040066/774746364_JaBnw-M.jpg
18:04:30 <sbp> 10:03AM - “Last holiday quarter we had over 250 million visitors to our stores.” Talking about the new New York stores. “It’s so wonderful to be putting these stores right in the neighborhoods of our customers. It feels good. Next update: app store.”
18:04:36 <Arnia> 50 million customers in three months... that's quite impressive itself given there are only 284 of the damn things
18:04:48 <sbp> 10:03AM Now Steve is talking about the new Apple store in NYC. "Here it is on opening day. It's so wonderful to put these stores in the neighborhoods with our customers."
18:04:51 <Arnia> WOAH
18:04:55 <sbp> photo of that: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0053-rm-eng.jpg
18:05:00 <Arnia> sorry, missed the 2
18:05:04 <sbp> 10:04AM - “We have over over 140k apps in the app store. And a few weeks ago we announced users have downloaded 3 billion applications.”
18:05:07 <Arnia> that's even more impressive...
18:05:26 <sbp> Gizmodo is down
18:05:34 <sbp> gdgt providing best coverage, leftmost tab now
18:05:49 <sbp> awesome: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0059-rm-eng.jpg
18:06:04 <sbp> the news we all knew: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0061-rm-eng.jpg
18:06:07 <Morbus> really is a great picture
18:06:13 <sbp> “Where does Apple get its revenue – iPods, iPhones and of course Macs”
18:06:16 <sbp> yeah, hehe
18:06:28 <Morbus> i'm just watching giz and gdgt now
18:06:36 <sbp> Chen: There are three bottles of water on stage, because Steve Jobs never drinks from the same water bottle twice. (This is not true.
18:06:43 <sbp> Gizmodo is really slow
18:06:46 <sbp> engadget is good
18:06:58 <sbp> 10:06AM "So those are the updates that we have today."
18:07:09 <Morbus> see ya at wwdc!
18:07:11 <chx> engadget and gdgt togehter is good
18:07:12 <sbp> E: “How do we stack up against all the other companies that sell mobile devices? We're the largest mobile device company in the world. Larger than Sony, bigger than Samsung...."
18:07:12 <Morbus> steve jobs walks off stage
18:07:13 <sbp> hehe
18:07:22 <sbp> 10:07AM "So let's get to the main event."
18:07:42 <chx> crap, it's really a tablet? :(
18:07:49 <sbp> 10:07AM - “Let’s get to the main event.” Murmurs. “Before we get to that [the tablet], I want to go back to 1991. Apple invented the modern laptop computer with our PowerBooks. The first laptop with a TFT screen, that pushed the keyboard up and had an integrated pointing device.”
18:07:51 <Morbus> http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0074-rm-eng.jpg
18:07:56 <sbp> of course it is
18:08:04 <sbp> that's even been essentially confirmed by the publishing company CEO
18:08:12 <Morbus> wow.
18:08:13 <sbp> Morbus: heh!
18:08:15 <Morbus> that moses picture is fucking awesome.
18:08:20 <sbp> http://c0581892.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/apple-tablet-keynote_023.jpg
18:08:20 <Morbus> http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0071-rm-eng.jpg
18:08:21 <sbp> yeah
18:08:24 <Morbus> *hilarious*
18:08:30 <Morbus> that should be shipped on all the boxes.
18:08:30 <sbp> http://c0581892.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/apple-tablet-keynote_022.jpg
18:08:37 <Arnia> He's enjoying himself a lot
18:08:46 <Arnia> You can see that just by the slides he's made
18:08:48 <sbp> 10:08AM - iPhone, MacBooks — “Everyone uses a laptop and/or a smartphone. The question has arisen lately: is there room for a third category device in the middle?”
18:08:51 <sbp> hehe
18:09:03 <sbp> another of the tablets: http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/appletablet/appletabletb83.jpg
18:09:09 <Morbus> i'm ehre to tell you, the answer is no, there isn;t
18:09:12 <Morbus> steve jobs walks off stage
18:09:15 <sbp> http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0082-rm-eng.jpg
18:09:19 <sbp> Far better at some key things
18:09:20 <chx> LOL
18:09:21 <[bjoern]> "Don't you hate it when you can't get that pesky alien implant out of your groin? Dr. Roger Leir is here to help." - http://io9.com/5457691/advice-on-removing-your-alien-implant--from-an-expert
18:09:32 <sbp> http://c0581892.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/apple-tablet-keynote_025.jpg
18:09:39 <[bjoern]> Wait no it's not that time of the year again is it?
18:09:39 <sbp> 10:09AM - “That’s a tall order — better than a laptop at browsing the web? Enjoying and sharing photos, videos, enjoying music, playing games, reading e-books.”
18:09:46 <sbp> yep!
18:09:54 <sivy> IS THERE ROOM FOR SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE - OF MY HANDS?
18:09:55 <sbp> http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0088-rm-eng.jpg
18:09:58 <sivy> WHY YES THERE IS
18:10:05 <Morbus> chx, games! ;)
18:10:19 <Morbus> ship with a mame emulator, ship with mame, ship with mame.
18:10:19 <[bjoern]> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/01/27/google_toolbar_caught_transmitting_data_when_disabled/ who'd have thought
18:10:21 <Morbus> iPad.
18:10:24 <Arnia> hah at the netbook swipe
18:10:24 <Morbus> 10:10AM "We think we've got something that is better. And we call it the iPad."
18:10:26 <sbp> hahaha, I was right
18:10:27 <sbp> whoo
18:10:33 <sbp> http://c0581892.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/apple-tablet-keynote_031.jpg
18:10:33 <Morbus> 10:09AM "Now some people thought that was a netbook -- the problem is that netbooks aren't better than anything!" Big cheers! Ha!
18:10:34 <sivy> iPAD
18:10:46 <sbp> so, it's gotta be better than a netbook
18:10:53 <sbp> 10:10AM - “Let me show it to you now.”
18:11:04 <sbp> netbooks bad: http://c0581892.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/apple-tablet-keynote_028.jpg
18:11:16 <sbp> http://c0581892.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/apple-tablet-keynote_032.jpg
18:11:17 <sbp> first view
18:11:22 <sbp> looks like a huge iPhone
18:11:34 <sbp> http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0100-rm-eng.jpg
18:11:39 <Morbus> that's a lot of border.
18:11:39 <sbp> 10:11AM "So, gonna give you a little overview. It's very thin -- you can change the homescreen to whatever you want. What this device does is extraordinary. You can browse the web with it. It's the best web experience you've ever had."
18:11:45 <sbp> yeah, huge
18:11:57 <Morbus> about the same as the kindle though
18:11:58 <sbp> the apps I see there are the default iPhone set right?
18:11:59 <Morbus> comparitively
18:12:06 <sbp> 10:11AM "Way better than a laptop, way better then a phone. You can turn it any way you want. To see the whole page is phenomenal."
18:12:07 <Morbus> looks like it, yeah.
18:12:18 <Morbus> full page pdf renders in a tablet will be nice.
18:12:20 <sbp> NYT on iPad: http://c0581892.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/apple-tablet-keynote_038.jpg
18:12:25 <Morbus> biggest suck ass complaint about the kindle.
18:12:26 <chx> surprising size , not wide screen more close to a square
18:12:31 <sbp> 10:11AM - “You can see the whole page in front of you and you can manipulate it with your fingers. You can turn it any way you want — it adjusts however you want it. You can see the whole page — it’s phenomenal. It’s an incredible experience.”
18:12:40 <sbp> yeah
18:12:40 <Morbus> chx: like a desktp.
18:12:56 <sbp> actual size!
18:12:57 <sbp> http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0097-rm-eng.jpg
18:13:01 <sbp> you can see it in his hands
18:13:02 <[bjoern]> ""Nobody sees my vision!" screamed Gruber, stabbing out his clove cigarette, taking a sip from a $10 beer in a can and adjusting his beret. "Only I know which fonts are appropriate! Only I know which menu items go where! Only I know which controls are controlliest! And I refuse to have my ideas, my concepts, my passion be questioned by Philistines!"" -- http://www.crazyapplerumors.com/?p=1165
18:13:04 <chx> a dream to type on? without a tactile keyborad? puh-leeze
18:13:12 <sbp> it's bigger than Jobs's head
18:13:16 <Morbus> http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0109-rm-eng.jpg
18:13:24 <Morbus> http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0107-rm-eng.jpg
18:13:26 <sbp> 10:13AM - “iPad is an awesome way to enjoy your music collection. And, of course, we have the iTunes store built right into the iPad.”
18:13:27 <sbp> well duh
18:13:47 <Morbus> 10:12AM "Album, photos... you can look at all of them, flick through them, it's a wonderful way to share. Calendar... months..." The interface really does look like an exploded iPhone.
18:13:58 <sbp> http://c0581892.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/apple-tablet-keynote_033.jpg
18:14:06 <Morbus> nice.
18:14:14 <sbp> mac looking keyboard
18:14:21 <sbp> http://c0581892.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/apple-tablet-keynote_041.jpg
18:14:46 <Morbus> maps: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0115-rm-eng.jpg
18:14:51 <Morbus> itunes: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0115-rm-eng.jpg
18:14:58 <Morbus> http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0118-rm-eng.jpg
18:15:09 <sbp> http://c0581892.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/apple-tablet-keynote_051.jpg
18:15:09 <Morbus> video playing: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0120-rm-eng.jpg
18:15:13 <sbp> explains the chair
18:15:24 <Morbus> 10:13AM "We have the iTunes store built right in. YouTube, and YouTube in HD."
18:15:26 <Arnia> Obvious in retrospect
18:15:28 <sivy> love the calendar view
18:15:36 <Morbus> calendar view: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0113-rm-eng.jpg
18:15:37 <sbp> 10:14AM Wow, super smooth scrolling.
18:15:40 <Arnia> yeah, the calendar view is beautiful
18:15:45 <sbp> 10:14AM Slide to unlock screen just like the iPhone. "This is the lock screen -- icons fly in. Let's go right to the web..." Apple.com -- Bookmarks drop down from a bunch of contextual menus up top.
18:15:46 <Morbus> http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0128-rm-eng.jpg
18:15:48 <Morbus> no flash. hehehe.
18:16:00 <chx> ok now what's the price
18:16:11 <sbp> 10:15AM - Going to the Time site. The scrolling is super smooth, it’s pretty damned nice.
18:16:20 <Morbus> Jobs clicked a story and there is a missing plugin error (is this flash? Does this mean that the iPad won’t have flash?)
18:16:26 <Morbus> ^^ giz
18:16:46 <Morbus> time magazine, bookmarks: http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/appletablet/appletabletb160.jpg
18:16:58 <Morbus> full screen video: http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/appletablet/appletabletb141.jpg
18:17:03 <sbp> 10:16AM Now Steve is on Fandango... Now National Geographic. Switching to landscape. If you're an iPhone owner this will seem very familiar.
18:17:17 <sbp> 10:16AM We're basically just watching Steve casually browse. This is odd.
18:17:20 <sbp> hehe
18:17:22 <chx> 10:16AM We're basically just watching Steve casually browse. This is odd. <= engadget.
18:17:26 <chx> :D
18:17:36 <Morbus> 10:17AM Jobs loads up porn site.
18:17:42 <Arnia> "You can flick through photos and emails just like on the iPhone, basically. There’s a built-in calendar (like a datebook married the desktop OS X calendar)."
18:17:43 <Morbus> 10:17AM Jobs walks off stage. WTH?
18:17:50 <[bjoern]> "7th Circuit Upholds Prison Rule Forbidding Inmates to Play Dungeons and Dragons" - http://volokh.com/2010/01/25/7th-circuit-upholds-prison-rule-forbidding-inmates-to-play-dungeons-and-dragons/
18:17:59 <Morbus> natgeo: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0132-rm-eng.jpg
18:18:06 <sbp> 10:16AM We're basically just watching Steve casually browse. This is odd.
18:18:14 <sbp> email: http://c0581892.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/apple-tablet-keynote_054.jpg
18:18:21 <Morbus> email: http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/appletablet/appletabletb174.jpg
18:18:23 <Morbus> Next up, email. He’s looking at a message, and he can bring up a pulldown menu of the inbox on the left by clicking the inbox button. He can swap to landscape view and view things in widescreen, with the inbox on the left and the message on the right.
18:18:34 <sbp> meant to paste: http://c0581892.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/apple-tablet-keynote_054.jpg
18:18:48 <Morbus> 10:18AM "Now if I want to send a message, I hit compose -- up pops this gorgeous keyboard." Steve is typing, it looks very responsive.
18:18:51 <chx> puh-leeze, my N810 has a similar e-mail screen
18:18:57 <chx> smaller, yeah, but then again
18:19:12 <sbp> 10:18AM - “That’s how simple mail is. If I want to reply to a message, up pops this gorgeous keyboard.” Steve is typing with two hands on his lap — not using thumbs. Very interesting.
18:19:31 <sivy> remember, however, that anything Apple invents ret-cons reality
18:19:43 <Morbus> keyboard close up: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0141-rm-eng.jpg
18:20:09 <sbp> http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0146-rm-eng.jpg - albums
18:20:22 <Morbus> photos: http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/appletablet/appletabletb190.jpg
18:20:45 <sbp> PDF: http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/appletablet/appletabletb175.jpg
18:20:52 <Morbus> that's pdf?
18:20:58 <Morbus> ah, yeah, must be.
18:21:00 <sbp> think so
18:21:09 <Morbus> it's a tube display, looks like.
18:21:09 <Arnia> wait, is that scrubber overlapping the bezel?
18:21:11 <Morbus> no gmap i've ever seen.
18:21:32 <Morbus> both sites starting to choke for me.
18:21:55 <sbp> Chen: Jobs is showing a photo slideshow with backing music and decent-looking transitions. He’s sitting cross-legged on his little loveseat.
18:22:14 <sbp> 10:21AM This is the ultimate tease. We've got a sneaking suspicion there's a lot more to come.
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18:22:33 <Morbus> 10:21AM Wow, iTunes interface is really nice, very expansive.
18:22:36 <Morbus> play wow on it.
18:22:38 <Morbus> play wow on it.
18:22:40 <Morbus> come on, steve.
18:22:48 <Arnia> I'm surprised that 22 minutes in and they've gone through so much...
18:22:51 <sbp> so far, big iPhone with a really nice looking interface?
18:22:55 <sbp> yeah, they're zipping through
18:22:57 <sbp> hard keeping up
18:23:06 <sbp> normally it's wait five minutes, a thing, boring, wait five minutes...
18:23:07 <Morbus> itunes: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0159-rm-eng.jpg
18:23:08 <Arnia> maybe a short event today?
18:23:22 <Morbus> 10:22AM "Let me show you a few other things. The iTunes store is built right in. I can sample music, buy songs." The interface has modals that pop over what you're viewing to show you song / album info.
18:23:25 <sbp> iTunes!
18:23:45 <sbp> so you get stuff you don't get on an iPhone
18:24:12 <sbp> http://c0581892.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/apple-tablet-keynote_066.jpg
18:24:16 <Arnia> I do love that calendar...
18:24:18 <sbp> but the overlay *is* from the iPhone
18:24:30 <Morbus> Jobs jumped over to calendar, which looks really like the one on the desktop, except for a couple more views like Day and List, which looks more like an organizer book (a physical one).
18:24:35 <Morbus> calendar: http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/appletablet/appletabletb236.jpg
18:24:51 <Morbus> full screen itunes track playing, with lyrics: http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/appletablet/appletabletb227.jpg
18:24:54 <sbp> 10:23AM - iTunes store. The UI on this thing is pretty intense, so far. Everything is familiar, but it’s all totally different from iPhone and OS X — this is a big launch for Apple. As if you hadn’t already noticed.
18:25:27 <Morbus> 10:24AM Steve is in Maps now. Zooming looks super fast -- no idea what this chip is, but it has no trouble handling pretty graphically intense stuff. Everything looks polished -- zero hiccup. "Now here's street view..." Wow. Big applause for that. "Now let me show you video."
18:25:40 <Morbus> street view: http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/appletablet/appletabletb255.jpg
18:25:48 <Morbus> He’s loading up his current location, that means this has GPS or some kind of location sensing. But, there’s no icon on the top next to the Wi-Fi icon that shows a 3G connection.
18:25:58 <sbp> what's this? http://c0581892.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/apple-tablet-keynote_071.jpg
18:26:00 <Morbus> lol: "Brian says don’t go to the Sushi Boat place that Jobs just mentioned, because you will get food poisioning.
18:26:00 <Morbus> "
18:26:00 <Arnia> Bloody hell... so fast...
18:26:13 <sbp> gdgt is struggling least
18:26:14 <Morbus> sbp: looks like youtube?
18:26:18 <sbp> hmm
18:26:31 <Morbus> yeah, http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0181-rm-eng.jpg
18:26:39 <Morbus> youtube search term placeholder in upper right
18:26:52 <sbp> some video: http://c0581892.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/apple-tablet-keynote_072.jpg
18:27:01 <Arnia> dogs... lots of dogs
18:27:02 <Arnia> woof
18:27:07 <sbp> Morbus: well spotted
18:27:34 <sbp> photos: http://slashgear.smugmug.com/Electronics/Apple-Tablet/P1040114/774758830_CF3ym-M.jpg
18:27:53 <Morbus> mvoie rental? http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0186-rm-eng.jpg
18:28:02 <sbp> http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/appletablet/appletabletb281.jpg
18:28:15 <Morbus> gmaps config: http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/appletablet/appletabletb246.jpg
18:28:28 <sbp> 10:27AM - “That is video on the iPad. So that’s a bit of an overview as to what the iPad can do.” Big applause. “Watching it is nothing like getting one in your hands.”
18:28:41 <Arnia> I want to play
18:28:42 <sbp> so, 17 minutes of iPad so far!
18:28:43 <Morbus> me too.
18:28:53 <Morbus> gimme a buy link. here's my credit card.
18:28:59 <sbp> hehe
18:29:00 <Morbus> alt.apple.go.go.go
18:29:13 <Arnia> IPS... wow
18:29:14 <sbp> 9.7 inch
18:29:20 <Morbus> 10:28AM "Let's go back to the hardware." .5 inches thin, 1.5 pounds -- 9.7 inch IPS display
18:29:22 <Arnia> wasn't quite expecting that
18:29:28 <Morbus> ips?
18:29:31 <Morbus> i'm not a hw person.
18:29:32 <sbp> .c 1.5lb in g
18:29:33 <phenny> 1.5 pounds = 680.388555 grams
18:29:47 <sbp> not bad. like a heavy SLR?
18:29:51 <Morbus> 10:29AM "It's powered by our own silicon. The 1GHz Apple A4 chip. It screams."
18:30:05 <sbp> whoa, the what?
18:30:13 <sbp> wait, is that the one it was rumoured to have?>
18:30:21 <sbp> I don't recall it being apple branded though
18:30:24 <sbp> did they buy a chip company? heh
18:30:25 <Morbus> 10:29AM Available in 16GB, 32, 64...
18:30:26 <Morbus> flash storage
18:30:32 <sbp> interesting
18:30:34 <Morbus> bluetooh 2.1, 802.11n
18:30:38 <Arnia> It was rumoured to have a Cortex A9
18:30:46 <sbp> 10 hours batt life
18:30:48 <Morbus> It has 802.11n, Bluetooth 2.1 + EDR. 30-pin connector, speaker, microphone, accelerometer and compass.
18:30:55 <Arnia> but that's just an ARM reference design... they bought an ARM design company
18:30:56 <Morbus> “As you know, Apple builds the same multitouch sensors in the world.” And it has multitouch on this. It’s powered by a 1GHz Apple A4 chip, and has 16GB to 64GB of flash storage.
18:31:34 <Morbus> jeez, now i don't know how much storage i want.
18:31:34 <Morbus> heh.
18:31:42 <sbp> 64!
18:31:49 <Morbus> if it has a usb port, i could external HDD.
18:31:52 * Morbus grins.
18:31:52 <Arnia> 64!
18:31:58 <sbp> 10:31AM - “Environmentally, the iPad is a good citizen. That’s a little bit of an overview of the iPad’s hardware. Let’s go back to software. We’ve seen great built-in apps. But let’s talk about 3rd party apps. To help me do that: Scott Forstall, SVP of iPhone software.” Scott’s up!
18:32:14 <sbp> lasts a month on standby
18:32:14 * Arnia wants to play with this so badly
18:32:19 <Morbus> me too me oto
18:32:23 <Morbus> This means it’s going to run from the same App Store as the iPhone, but we’re not sure about what TYPE of apps yet.
18:32:28 <Arnia> this is worse than when I saw the iPhone launch
18:32:33 <Morbus> “And it’s got battery. What is the battery life of this remarkable new device?” 10 hours of battery life.
18:32:36 <Morbus> He can “fly to San Francisco to Tokyo and watch video the whole way on one charge.” That’s ten hours of VIDEO. And 1 month of standby charge.
18:32:44 <sbp> http://c0581892.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/apple-tablet-keynote_088.jpg
18:32:45 <sbp> hey
18:32:50 <sbp> 1:1 pixel boxing for old apps
18:32:53 <sbp> or double pixel them up
18:32:53 <Morbus> games!
18:33:09 <Morbus> come on, wow! ;)
18:33:16 <Morbus> wow can totally run on 1ghz and 64 gigs
18:33:18 * edsu dreams of throwing one against the wall accidentally
18:33:19 * Morbus grins.
18:33:23 <sbp> see the 1x button there: http://c0581892.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/apple-tablet-keynote_093.jpg
18:33:27 <sbp> that's actually quite clever
18:33:41 <Arnia> Also may explain the odd aspect ratio
18:33:52 <Morbus> mm
18:34:12 <sbp> littlebook: http://c0581892.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/apple-tablet-keynote_090.jpg
18:34:14 <Morbus> 10:33AM "Let's start with Facebook. It just works." He's showing off the non-pixel doubled version, a small app in the middle of the screen. It's kind of silly looking. A lone app in the center of a black screen. The scaled up app looks silly as well, especially in Facebook.
18:34:24 <Morbus> 10:33AM Gaming obviously will handle this better, but a text heavy app looks lonely or weirdly huge.
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18:34:44 <Morbus> so, that's nice. here's a giant app base, but we want you to make them better for the ipad.
18:35:03 <Morbus> i don't think you could expect much more from that
18:35:06 <sbp> 10:34AM Games look amazing. He's playing an OpenGLS title right now and it looks super smooth.
18:35:12 <sbp> nothing about multitasking yet, they say
18:35:14 <Morbus> PLAY WOW DAMMIT.
18:35:20 <sbp> hehe, yeah
18:35:27 <Morbus> games: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0230-rm-eng.jpg
18:35:30 <Morbus> and other apps.
18:35:45 <Morbus> snowsomething: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0228-rm-eng.jpg
18:35:49 <sbp> is that logo bottom right "iPod"?
18:36:04 <Morbus> 10:35AM "So all of the iPhone apps will run on this. In fact when you buy it, download all the apps you have right onto the iPad. Now if the developer spends some time modifying their app, they can take full advantage of this display."
18:36:07 <sbp> hey, he's got Grand Pro on it
18:36:09 <sbp> I've got that
18:36:20 <Morbus> someone needs to make achieveemtns for this thing.
18:36:21 * Morbus grins.
18:36:37 <Morbus> giz catchup:The iPad can run “virtually every one of these apps, unmodified, right out of the box.” They can either run it very small, 1:1 pixel, in the center of the screen. Or they can “pixel double” it and run it full screen, in a low resolution mode.
18:36:42 <Morbus> He’s downloaded all these apps unmodified from the App Store. First, Facebook. He runs it in a tiny iPhone-size window oin the middle of the screen. But he can tap the “2x” button and run things full screen. It’s the same resolution, but just bigger.
18:36:43 <sbp> 10:35AM - “If the developer takes the time, they can also take full advantage of the large touchscreen display in the iPad. We did that with our own internal apps, and we expect developers will want to do that too.” New SDK out today including iPad tools.
18:36:49 <Morbus> It’s an unmodified game “right off the app store,” emphasizing the fact that you’re going to be able to play all these games that are already in the App Store, so that the iPad won’t launch with a tiny library.
18:36:59 <Morbus> But, what if the developer modifies their game for the larger display? “We rewrote the user interface of every one of our apps to take advantage of the larger display that comes with the iPad.”
18:37:22 <sbp> Chen: Again, so far he’s just running iPhone programs that are just uprezzed to the resolution of the iPad.
18:37:24 <Morbus> app store: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0240-rm-eng.jpg
18:37:27 <sbp> the game is called Snocross
18:37:40 <sbp> wow, appstore looks nice
18:37:41 <Morbus> "[13:37] <sbp> Chen: Again, so far he’s just running iPhone programs that are just uprezzed to the resolution of the iPad."
18:37:45 <Morbus> ^^ that seems a bit snobbish.
18:37:47 <sbp> damn, they've redesigned like every app to be nice
18:37:57 <sivy> really, though, at that resolution, you might as well run the FB website
18:37:59 <sbp> well, I think he means he's expecting a "but also!" gaming moment
18:38:02 <Morbus> sivy: yeah.
18:38:04 <sivy> since it would be actually usable
18:38:07 <Morbus> Apple will highlight apps that are created explicitly for the iPad in the iPad store as well. You can get iPhone apps, of course, but they will highlight the special ones.
18:38:08 <sbp> good point
18:38:11 <Morbus> Scott is inviting some people on stage, starting with gameloft, to show what they can create especially for the iPad in just a few weeks.
18:38:27 <Morbus> 10:37AM "We're exciting about possibilities on this. So we invited some developers two weeks ago to see what they could create. We want to show you what they came up with. First, Gameloft." Mark Hickey from Gameloft is up.
18:38:29 <sbp> http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0241-rm-eng.jpg
18:38:38 <Morbus> "i miss steve": http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0242-rm-eng.jpg
18:38:39 <sbp> Morbus: see! here we go!
18:38:47 <Morbus> they better invite blizzard up.
18:38:51 * Morbus grins.
18:39:09 <sbp> hehe, yeah!
18:39:10 <Morbus> First up, Nova, which is already on the iPhone. For the control scheme, you can slide the D-Pad up and down the screen, or move the controls around to your liking. The demo person is holding the iPad like a big iPhone, in two hands.
18:39:19 <sivy> my wife was never into the iPhone, but she's already asking how much this costs
18:39:22 <sbp> Chen: First up, Nova, which is already on the iPhone. For the control scheme, you can slide the D-Pad up and down the screen, or move the controls around to your liking. The demo person is holding the iPad like a big iPhone, in two hands.
18:39:29 <sbp> I found Nova a bit tricky on the iPod
18:39:32 <sivy> also, i'm guesing there's going to be an act 3 with ebooks and education
18:39:36 <Morbus> nova: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0250-rm-eng.jpg
18:39:37 <archels> Hmm, what am I looking at? Apple Tablet release livebloggins?
18:39:38 <sbp> might be better on the iPad
18:39:41 <Morbus> archels: y
18:39:49 <archels> oh goodie.
18:39:53 <sbp> hey, the graphics there look better
18:40:01 <Morbus> You can also do motions like sliding two fingers across the screen to throw a grenade.
18:40:01 <sivy> yeah
18:40:03 <sbp> much better than the iPhone version I think
18:40:03 <Morbus> They can “interact with the game world in ways that weren’t possible before,” like sliding three fingers on the screen to interact with a door.
18:40:06 <Morbus> Another new innovation, drawing a targeting box around enemies and firing on them simultaneously.
18:40:12 <Arnia> I wonder what graphics core they're using
18:40:14 <Morbus> 10:39AM Showing off their FPS Nova. "I can slide the d-pad on the screen..." You can set up your own controls. New gestures for interacting with games. This isn't anything breathtaking just yet -- fairly standard graphics (though nice), nothing new in terms of interaction.
18:40:25 <sbp> 10:39AM - Showing first-person shooting with multi-touch, like target acquisition by drawing a graph in your HUD. Pretty neat!
18:40:39 <sbp> standard graphics for a regular computer
18:40:42 <Morbus> 10:40AM "The iPad version of Nova ships later this year..." Interesting. Scott is back. "Next up, the New York Times."
18:40:44 <archels> "1 GHz Apple A4"? What the heck is an A4?
18:40:46 <sbp> I still say this beats the iPhone Nova hands down
18:40:54 <sbp> archels: we're mystified about that too
18:40:58 <sivy> archels: apple bought pa semi
18:41:02 <Morbus> boo, newspaper. get off the stage.
18:41:03 <sivy> new silicon in this beast
18:41:03 <sbp> "later this year"? hmm
18:41:15 <Morbus> The higher resolution actually looks pretty good, and the textures don’t look the same as on the iPhone’s version.
18:41:16 <sbp> 10:38AM - Showing a title called Nova. This looks pretty decent, but still a tiny bit choppy. But hey, this was done in two weeks, so I’m gonna cut these guys some slack.
18:41:18 <sbp> two weeks. heh
18:41:45 <sbp> .wik Martin Nisenholtz
18:41:46 <phenny> "This page has been deleted." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Nisenholtz
18:41:49 <sbp> heh
18:41:50 <Morbus> i bet the last 15 WAS ebooks and education, but when mcgraw broke the story, steve cut it out
18:42:00 <Morbus> 10:41AM "So Steve showed you the Times website, it's beautiful. Why did we come out here to develop a new app for the iPad? Our iPhone app has been downloaded 3m times. We wanted to create something special for the iPad."
18:42:02 <archels> Pardon for annoying latecomer questions, but what's the display res? (not in top 10 google hits)
18:42:09 <sbp> 10:41AM - Martin: “Steve showed you the NYT site on the iPad, it’s unbelievably beautiful. Why did we come out three weeks ago to develop an app for the iPad?” Wait, three weeks? Scott said peeps had 2 weeks. Anyway! “We think that we’ve captured the essence of reading a newspaper… all in a native app.”
18:42:10 <Morbus> archels: not reported yet
18:42:15 <archels> okay
18:42:31 <sbp> well, we can work it out
18:42:39 <sbp> it can accommodate 2x the size of an iPhone layout
18:42:45 <sbp> because it can have the double pixel render right?
18:42:46 *** litwol (n=litwol@drupal.org/user/78134/view) has joined #swhack
18:42:49 <litwol> what'd i miss
18:42:53 <Morbus> everything.
18:42:53 <sbp> http://c0581892.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/apple-tablet-keynote_107.jpg
18:42:54 <Morbus> logs?
18:42:58 <sbp> NYT app looks nice, like calendar
18:42:59 <Morbus> phenny: pointer'
18:43:00 <Morbus> phenny: pointer
18:43:01 <archels> Is the presentation being streamed or just textblogged from?
18:43:04 <sbp> loggy: uri?
18:43:04 <loggy> http://swhack.com/logs/2010-01-27#T18-43-04
18:43:10 <litwol> ty
18:43:12 <sbp> http://live.gdgt.com/2010/01/27/live-apple-come-see-our-latest-creation-tablet-event-coverage/
18:43:16 <sbp> http://i.engadget.com/2010/01/27/live-from-the-apple-tablet-latest-creation-event/?sort=newest&refresh=30
18:43:21 <sbp> http://live.gizmodo.com/
18:43:25 <Morbus> 10:42AM "We think we've captured the essence of reading the newspaper. A superior experience in a native application." Wow, the layout is just like a standard paper, and again we've got those dropdown context menus. You can resize text with a pinch.
18:43:25 <Arnia> ooh... the NYT app is pretty
18:43:32 <chx> i just had dinner, oh wow, IPS screen??
18:43:33 <Morbus> pitch: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0262-rm-eng.jpg
18:43:41 <chx> that's the first wow
18:43:41 <Morbus> image popup: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0263-rm-eng.jpg
18:44:00 <Morbus> Here’s the app. It’s very similar to the actual paper, but can skip around like on the iPhone version. The formatting is similar to a paper, and you can change the number of columns, resize text, flip through slideshows and go into landscape mode.
18:44:02 <sbp> Chen: Here’s the app. It’s very similar to the actual paper, but can skip around like on the iPhone version. The formatting is similar to a paper, and you can change the number of columns, resize text, flip through slideshows and go into landscape mode.
18:44:06 <sbp> heh
18:44:08 <Morbus> :D
18:44:17 <Morbus> giz goes down, then diarhea's shitloads.
18:44:31 <Morbus> nyt sections: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0266-rm-eng.jpg
18:44:42 <sbp> sections is nice
18:44:44 <sbp> that's very pretty
18:44:53 <sbp> again, like the calendar
18:45:00 <sbp> and the iTunes store and stuff
18:45:02 <Morbus> i don't read newspapers.
18:45:03 <sbp> it's all been quite pretty
18:45:05 <Morbus> 10:44AM "Next is Brushes. It's an extremely popular app." Steve Sprang from Brushes is up.
18:45:09 <litwol> i was telling MM over dinner that whomever going to come out with an app for this tablet will gain major reader base
18:45:10 <sbp> yeah, but shows what they're aiming at
18:45:12 <sbp> oh, Brushes
18:45:14 <sbp> I've got that too
18:45:27 <Morbus> litwol: i've already asked MM for a budget on it ;)
18:45:31 <sbp> oh yeah, this is what that guy made a New Yorker cover in
18:45:38 <sbp> I found it a bit too fiddly on the iPod
18:45:45 <Morbus> 10:45AM "Today I'd like to show you how brushes looks on the iPad." This is nice. Context menus for brush and color options. We're loving these new pop-over menus. No more diving!
18:45:51 <Morbus> layers: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0274-rm-eng.jpg
18:45:56 <Morbus> tools: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0275-rm-eng.jpg
18:45:58 <sbp> 10:43AM - “We’re incredibly psyched to pioneer the next generation of digital journalism.” Ha, Martin Nisenholtz said “psyched.”
18:46:01 <Morbus> color: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0277-rm-eng.jpg
18:46:21 <sbp> hmm
18:46:21 <Morbus> larger versions: http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/appletablet/appletabletb384.jpg
18:46:25 <chx> well, cool, psyched, what's the price of the iPad, dude?
18:46:27 <Morbus> 383 and 5
18:46:28 <litwol> i want to know if it has flash :)
18:46:28 <sbp> well Brushes might not have this
18:46:35 <sbp> but other drawing apps already had this, note
18:46:42 <Morbus> litwol: not known, but doubtful; we saw NYT earlier with a broken plugin.
18:46:52 <litwol> yeah read that on gizmodo
18:46:53 <Morbus> 10:46AM This is very slick -- probably the most impressive demo yet. A very sophisticated use of the screen real estate. Brushes for the iPad looks like you can go pretty deep. Available at product launch.
18:46:56 <Arnia> very unlikely for many many reasons
18:46:57 <sbp> especially Inspire
18:46:59 <Morbus> 10:46AM "Next up, EA." Of course!
18:47:02 <Morbus> EA DOES NOT MAKE WOW.
18:47:04 * Morbus grumbles.
18:47:09 <sbp> EA, bah
18:47:14 <Morbus> You can pinch and zoom in up to 32x, and you can eyedropper as well. There’s even support of in-app playback on the paintings.
18:47:15 <chx> I am way more excited over my T4 in the email than the iPad so far....
18:47:19 <sbp> I think EA is like the biggest iPhone games developer though
18:47:25 <sbp> almost everything good is an EA game
18:47:35 <Morbus> i hate almost all EA games.
18:47:42 <Morbus> and EA in general, actually ;)
18:47:49 <sivy> only one i have is boggle for iphone
18:47:55 <Morbus> but, then, i haven't played any of their iphone games.
18:47:55 <sivy> whcih is kinda awesom
18:48:03 <sbp> Chen: There’s even support of in-app playback on the paintings.
18:48:04 <sbp> nice
18:48:10 <Arnia> I like Simcity
18:48:19 <sbp> yeah, iPhone games are... different
18:48:29 * Arnia is very excited about the iPad
18:48:35 <Morbus> 10:47AM Travis Boatman from EA is up. "When Apple invited us to come on site, we couldn't have been more excited. But we wanted to check out this device's performance as gamers."
18:48:41 <Morbus> 10:48AM Need for Speed Shift on screen. Looks pretty good. "Building for the iPad is a little different -- it's kind of like holding an HD display up to your face. It's really cool."
18:48:42 <Morbus> lol.
18:48:46 <sbp> Need For Speed on the iPhone looks crud
18:48:48 <Morbus> http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0287-rm-eng.jpg
18:48:49 <sbp> didn't even get it
18:48:59 <Morbus> "slide to race". neato
18:49:08 <Morbus> EA says the first thing they wanted to check out was the device’s performance, and for that, Need For Speed. They’re showing off a BMW M3, which looks quite good (definitely better than the iPhone), but not as good as on a PC. It looks somewhere inbetween, which is kinda the point of the device. Though it’s closer to the iPhone. “It’s like holding an HD screen up to your face.”
18:49:16 <Morbus> The game is also “fully touch enabled.” To see inside the car, just tap inside the car, and swipe up and down on the shifter to change gears, and tap on the mirror to look behind you.
18:49:36 <Morbus> 10:49AM And that's it for EA. Really?
18:49:36 <sbp> the accelerator and brake thing there is quite nice
18:49:50 <sbp> that was the only EA game shown?
18:49:52 <sbp> that's kinda crazy
18:50:06 <Arnia> still belting through then...
18:50:07 <Morbus> they're holding out for wow
18:50:16 <Morbus> Last up is MLB.com.
18:50:17 <Morbus> yawn
18:50:34 <litwol> do we know the hardware this thing packs ?
18:50:37 <Morbus> 10:50AM Chad Evans from MLB.com -- "We were excited to build something for the iPad. We had to create a whole new experience for this display."
18:50:39 <litwol> hdd/ram ?
18:50:40 <sbp> Morbus: the MLB app on the iPhone is *insanely* popular
18:50:43 <Arnia> maybe they're trying to finish by 7pm
18:50:49 <Morbus> 1ghz chip, 16 to 64 gb flash.
18:50:52 <sbp> Morbus: because apparently it's basically free games streamed
18:51:00 <Morbus> sbp: yeah, but sports. yawn.
18:51:01 <Morbus> ;)
18:51:03 <sbp> yeah
18:51:09 <sbp> not even a UK sport
18:51:12 <litwol> 16 to 64 is a guestimate ?
18:51:16 <Arnia> No
18:51:17 <Morbus> 10:50AM Chad Evans from MLB.com -- "We were excited to build something for the iPad. We had to create a whole new experience for this display."
18:51:21 <Morbus> litwol: no, 3 sizes.
18:51:24 <Arnia> 16, 32 and 64
18:51:25 <litwol> oh snap
18:51:27 <Morbus> hrm. looks like you can play baseball?
18:51:27 <sbp> ? http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0294-rm-eng.jpg
18:51:29 <litwol> damn
18:51:31 <sbp> yeah, that's weird
18:51:35 <sbp> it's not video, looks like a game
18:51:37 <Morbus> 10:50AM Chad Evans from MLB.com -- "We were excited to build something for the iPad. We had to create a whole new experience for this display."
18:51:39 *** kpreid has quit ()
18:51:42 <litwol> what kind of connectivity ?
18:51:47 <Morbus> unknown.
18:51:53 <archels> Cost?
18:51:55 <Morbus> oh, wait.
18:52:05 <Morbus> bluetooth 2.1, 801.11n or something like.
18:52:12 <sbp> Morbus:
18:52:13 <sbp> Jacqui Cheng: Looking at live game experience with data from last April. Can navigate through games, pitch-tracker, shows trajectory of every pitch thrown from the perspective of the baseball player
18:52:15 <litwol> limited storage may be ok if it has good connectivity so i can mount remote drive to it
18:52:21 <Morbus> sbp: yeah. lame.
18:52:24 <sbp> so it's a stats thing. an insanely detailed stats thing
18:52:27 <Morbus> i'd've played baseball ;)
18:52:28 <sivy> looks like the MLB app is taking baseball game actions and rendering them in a game engine
18:52:30 <Morbus> You can even replay games in a small window on the screen. There are game controls, to see the box score, the field, the matchup and the lineup.
18:52:33 <Arnia> BT 2.1 + EDR
18:52:34 <Morbus> You can even watch live with your choice of home or away announcers.
18:52:34 <sbp> (which makes sense, because it's baseball)
18:52:39 <sbp> heh
18:52:47 <Morbus> 10:51AM Nice, live video within the app. Full screen too.
18:52:49 <sbp> Jacqui Cheng: Scott Forstall is back. Incredibly excited for developers' possibilities, introducing SDK today
18:52:54 <Morbus> Scott from Apple is back on stage.
18:53:04 <Morbus> 9 minutes left.
18:53:09 <Morbus> i smell price bombshell.
18:53:13 <Morbus> 10:52AM Scott: "While we wait for those apps to come out, we can all run our existing apps... and that is the app story for the iPad." And Steve is back.
18:53:24 <sbp> 10:52AM - Game video with overlays, this is pretty dope. If you’re a baseball fan, seems like this is probably going to be your new preferred viewing experience. Scott’s back.
18:53:34 <Arnia> While we wait?
18:53:38 <sbp> price bombshell: hmm, indeed
18:53:41 <Arnia> Interesting... early launch?
18:53:41 <sbp> $20, come on!
18:53:48 <sbp> shipping first in the UK, come on!
18:53:51 <Arnia> hehe
18:53:52 <Morbus> sbp: more like "quick, say 2000 and then *run*"
18:53:57 <sivy> here comes the kindle spanking
18:53:58 <sbp> 10:53AM - Our new app is called iBooks.
18:53:58 <sbp> 10:53AM - “Amazon’s done a great job of pioneering this functionality with the Kindle. We’re going to stand on their shoulders and go a little further.”
18:54:01 <sbp> yeah
18:54:05 <Morbus> wow, they totally ripped off delicious.
18:54:06 <Morbus> sweet.
18:54:12 <Morbus> wow!
18:54:14 <Morbus> this is great.
18:54:15 <sbp> iBooks: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0306-rm-eng.jpg
18:54:16 <sbp> hehe
18:54:18 <Morbus> 10:53AM "Isn't that awesome? These guys only had two weeks. So we've seen some really great apps. Let me show you another... one of our apps. That's an ebook reader. Now Amazon has done a great job of pioneering this... we're going to stand on their shoulders for this. Our new app is called iBooks."
18:54:23 <chx> you can't read a book on an LCD
18:54:24 <litwol> law suit ?
18:54:30 <sbp> Kindle: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0303-rm-eng.jpg
18:54:31 <chx> that's a ridiculous idea.
18:54:33 <Morbus> book display: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0305-rm-eng.jpg
18:54:39 <sbp> iPad: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0305-rm-eng.jpg
18:54:40 <Morbus> chx: i have.
18:54:53 <Arnia> I have too... I sometimes hold my laptop like a book
18:54:53 <Morbus> library: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0307-rm-eng.jpg
18:54:54 <chx> Morbus: and i have an eInk based reader and it rocks.
18:54:55 <sbp> 10:54AM "It has a bookshelf. In addition there's a button which is the store -- we've created the new iBook Store. You can download right onto your iPad."
18:54:58 <litwol> wow i might actually start buying ebooks >.<
18:55:04 <sbp> yeah, it's fine
18:55:05 <Morbus> http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0308-rm-eng.jpg
18:55:08 <Morbus> chx: same here. kindle. hated it.
18:55:09 <Arnia> I can read papers much faster like that
18:55:16 <Morbus> 10:54AM "It has a bookshelf. In addition there's a button which is the store -- we've created the new iBook Store. You can download right onto your iPad."
18:55:17 <sbp> http://c0581892.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/apple-tablet-keynote_131.jpg
18:55:29 <Morbus> 10:54AM Five big partners... Penguin, Macmillion, Simon & Shuster... and more.
18:55:33 <chx> litwol: i will start doing that the day they remove DRM, until I am torrenting.
18:55:44 <sbp> 10:54AM - “We’re very excited about this.” I think Steve said this is opening up this afternoon, but don’t quote me on that!
18:55:46 <Morbus> It’s got a bookshelf, and the screen actually looks like you’re looking down at a book, with extraneous stuff on the side that looks like the side of a book. It’s called iBooks. And, there’s even an iBook store that has Penguin, Harper Collins, Simon & Schuster, Macmillan, Hachette book group.
18:55:54 <sbp> Penguin: nice
18:55:59 <Morbus> sbp: you totally just quoted him on that.
18:56:07 <litwol> chx: i realized what i said after <return> :-p
18:56:08 <Morbus> s&s is nice for me, cos i've been reading tons of kids book lately.
18:56:15 <sbp> Vincent Nguyen - 10:55.AM
18:56:15 <sbp> (A lot of these names you might remember from December 2009, complaining about ebooks and saying they were going to delay releasing them!)
18:56:16 <Morbus> Jobs is showing off the bookshelf. You can hit the store button, and the bookshelf flips around to show the iBooks store. It’s basically the same as the App Store or the iTunes store.
18:56:16 <litwol> chx: ain't going to happen. :)
18:56:36 <Morbus> book info in store: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0315-rm-eng.jpg
18:56:44 <Morbus> $14.99 for the price?
18:56:45 <Morbus> wtf.
18:56:50 <Morbus> no one is gonna spend that for a ebook.
18:56:56 <Morbus> 10:56AM The store is very similar to iTunes. Same modal pop-overs. Pricing doesn't look too bad. The book page display is nice. You can turn pages slowly -- really slick looking page animation.
18:57:04 <sbp> Vincent Nguyen - 10:56.AM
18:57:04 <sbp> Different ways to browse, including top 10 lists, the NYT list, bestsellers, etc. You can tap a book to get more information on it and see reviews, as well as download samples as you would on the Kindle. When you buy it, it turns up on your virtual bookshelf: a tap opens it up.
18:57:18 <sivy> Morbus: perhaps, but this is going to be more like a real book that what the world has known as "eboks" before
18:57:20 <Morbus> chx: the kindle stuff has been drmstrippable for awhile.
18:57:25 <Morbus> sivy: sure.
18:57:36 <Morbus> but, if the price is gonna be that similar, i'd rather have the book.
18:57:38 <sbp> Jacqui Cheng: Can change font size to read, you can change the font itself
18:57:42 <sivy> Morbus: yeah
18:57:43 <sbp> yeah, that's expensive
18:57:45 <Morbus> http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0320-rm-eng.jpg
18:57:55 <sivy> i wonder if it will have searching, highlighting, annotating?
18:58:01 <sivy> that would make this workth it
18:58:02 <Morbus> picvture display: http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/appletablet/appletabletb442.jpg
18:58:06 <Morbus> It’s still unsaid whether or not you can import your own books from other libraries.
18:58:11 <sbp> Chen: It’s still unsaid whether or not you can import your own books from other libraries.
18:58:13 <sbp> heh
18:58:15 <Morbus> new chapter: http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/appletablet/appletabletb438.jpg
18:58:25 <sbp> 10:58AM - “Now, something very exciting: iWork.”
18:58:28 <Morbus> fontn change: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0321-rm-eng.jpg
18:58:34 <chx> oh ePub.
18:58:38 <chx> that's nice.
18:58:39 <sbp> uses ePub, yeah
18:58:41 <litwol> that book reader interface is very familiar
18:58:47 <Morbus> wow, epub?
18:58:49 <Morbus> sweet.
18:58:49 <litwol> i've read few books through ebook reader that looked similar
18:58:58 <sbp> fonts: http://c0581892.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/apple-tablet-keynote_143.jpg
18:58:59 <Morbus> Apple uses the ePub format, which means it’s open, and which might mean you can import your own ePub books (maybe?).
18:59:00 <sbp> weird font list!
18:59:02 <sivy> what exactly is epub?
18:59:12 <Morbus> sivy: open book format, compared to .lib, .pub, etc.
18:59:13 <sbp> includes Times New Roman, but not Hoefler Text!
18:59:14 <Arnia> hm...
18:59:15 <Morbus> .mobi
18:59:25 <sbp> and the only sans is Verdana?
18:59:27 <Morbus> 10:58AM "Now, something very exciting... iWork. A little over a year ago I asked the head of our team about creating iWork for the iPad. The reaction was... 'ahhh they require a lot of horsepower'"
18:59:28 <sbp> very weird font list
18:59:40 <Morbus> sbp: i like 'em.
18:59:43 <Arnia> But Palatino!
18:59:47 <Morbus> The question was whether or not a tablet could power iWork (the answer is yes, obviously), and “whether or not they could come up with a completely new user interface.” The answer to that is also yes.
18:59:49 <Arnia> Who would want any other font?
18:59:51 <sbp> 10:59AM - “I asked our team to take a look at iWork on the iPad.” Apparently Steve’s team wasn’t stoked at first, “but eventually the answer was youbetcha.” Rebuilt iWork UI!
18:59:58 <Arnia> epub is a bit of an odd choice if we want to use this for textbooks :p
19:00:00 <sbp> Arnia: thought you'd be pleased :-)
19:00:10 <sbp> and note that they have Palatino selected for the default demo, heh
19:00:11 <sivy> Arnia: why?
19:00:23 <Morbus> jeez, how long is this?
19:00:25 <Arnia> Can ePub include maths?
19:00:34 <sbp> 11:00AM - Phil’s up! “As Steve told you, the iWork team has been hard at work for a year now. I think we’ve done some amazing and remarkable work. A completely new version of Keynote, Pages, and Numbers…”
19:00:55 <sbp> we're going across the hour
19:00:55 <sivy> keynote? external display support?
19:00:59 <sivy> or is it write-only?
19:01:02 <Morbus> key note: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0330-rm-eng.jpg
19:01:12 <sbp> that's Keynote?
19:01:15 <sbp> see, I don't use iWork
19:01:20 <sivy> sbp: something this big will have a couple more Acts, I bet
19:01:20 <Morbus> keynote == powerpoint.
19:01:22 <sbp> this is gonna be a bit of a yadda yadda section for me
19:01:32 <Morbus> word: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0331-rm-eng.jpg
19:01:42 <Arnia> keynote == what's running this media event
19:01:44 <sbp> oh, that spreadsheet is actually very nice
19:01:47 <Morbus> “They’ve done some amazingly remarkable work.” There’s a new version of Keynote designed just for the iPad. A new version of Pages just for the iPad (word processor), and numbers, which is the spreadsheet app. Schiller just called it cool to use.
19:01:52 <sbp> spreadsheet: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0333-rm-eng.jpg
19:02:06 <Morbus> sbp: yeah, spreadhseets in iWork are totally different from excel.
19:02:07 <sbp> word looks nice too
19:02:08 <Morbus> they don't look the same at all.
19:02:19 <Arnia> Numbers has a very nice UI
19:02:23 * Morbus nods.
19:02:26 <Arnia> (on the Mac too)
19:02:27 <sbp> Chen: Schiller’s sitting down in Steve Jobs’ chair, which is probably still warm.
19:02:28 <Morbus> 11:02AM They've really redone this interface. We don't know about you, but using iWork wasn't one of our fantasies when we thought about what an Apple tablet would be like. This is nice... but it's iWork.
19:02:35 <sivy> lol
19:03:01 <sivy> want to see an Indigo app for this
19:03:06 <sivy> graphical home automation
19:03:15 <Arnia> I was thinking that last night
19:03:27 <sbp> access photos from somethingorother: http://c0581892.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/apple-tablet-keynote_152.jpg
19:03:38 <Morbus> iphoto.
19:03:40 <sbp> iWork comment: chuckle
19:03:55 <sbp> 11:03AM We'll say this -- iWork looks really robust. Far more than an iPhone app. Lots of options, lots of ways to work with your data.
19:04:12 <sbp> they really seem to be designing everything for between iPhone and iMac
19:04:15 <sbp> I'm quite impressed
19:04:17 <Morbus> yeah.
19:04:21 <sivy> wonder if iwork will be free on the ipad?
19:04:21 <Morbus> which is what they set out to do.
19:04:22 <sbp> it's not just iPhone scaled up or iMac scaled down
19:04:25 <Morbus> yeah.
19:04:26 <sbp> it's a whole new middle level
19:04:32 <sivy> or if this will be apple's entry into it's own store?
19:04:40 <Morbus> i bet it'll cost.
19:04:44 <Morbus> it costs everywhere else.
19:04:46 <Arnia> They'll sell it
19:04:53 <Morbus> i woudln't buy it.
19:05:00 <Morbus> gimme a test editor or i'll use docs.google ;)
19:05:02 <Morbus> *text
19:05:08 <Arnia> I'll buy it
19:05:14 <sbp> hehe
19:05:15 <Arnia> I use Keynote to give presentations
19:05:16 <Morbus> i tend to use openoffice anyways.
19:05:16 <sivy> well, you could easily see a good text editor in the appstore now
19:05:20 <sivy> with this device
19:05:24 <Morbus> sivy: yeah.
19:05:25 <sbp> sivy: yeah!
19:05:35 <Morbus> 2x a text editor. it's gotta work nicely.
19:05:38 <Morbus> text editors are pie.
19:05:40 <Arnia> ugh, hate OpenOffice.org
19:05:47 <sbp> I hope people don't dev mainly for this and forget to dev for iPhone
19:06:00 <sbp> like, apps which won't scale back
19:06:02 <Morbus> sbp: price point would keep 'em away, i bet.
19:06:20 <Morbus> you're using same apps and apis, just different sizes. like a no brainer to get double the market.
19:06:27 <Morbus> pages + keyboard: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0339-rm-eng.jpg
19:06:36 <Morbus> I suppose the iPad would be a pretty good presentation device, letting you see the screens on your device and controlling it while it’s being projected onto a wall through the 30-pin dock connector. (Video out is still unconfirmed, this is just my guess.)
19:06:43 <Morbus> Now Phil’s going to Pages. He’s showing off documents he’s created. He’s scrolling through text, and when he taps on text, the keyboard pops up. If he wants to focus on typing, he turns the thing horizontal.
19:06:50 <sbp> interesting portrait keyboard, note
19:07:01 <Morbus> portrait keyboard: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0340-rm-eng.jpg
19:07:02 <sbp> can you two hand type on it portrait?
19:07:04 <Morbus> little big.
19:07:10 <sbp> that's landscape
19:07:13 <Morbus> i like seeing more text than that when typing.
19:07:14 <Morbus> yeah.
19:07:20 <Morbus> i pasted the other one.
19:07:20 <sbp> is a bit big, yeah. hmm
19:07:21 <Arnia> sbp, there are some apps which would work a lot less well on an iphone of course
19:07:27 <Morbus> 11:06AM New tool: Page Navigator. It's a bit like the magnification loop and lets you jump through pages. Automatic image outlines -- just drag your image and text reformats.
19:07:30 <sbp> Arnia: yeah
19:07:41 <sbp> just hoping this doesn't cause an iPhone dev vacuum
19:07:45 <Morbus> There’s a page navigator as well, scrolling through the right to see different pages. He’s now moving a photo of a giraffe around to show off auto-wrapping text.
19:07:53 <sbp> "here the new thing, bail on the iPhone"
19:08:01 <Arnia> sbp: I think it will, but a temporary one
19:08:02 <edsu> sbp: sounds pleasant to me
19:08:04 <sivy> sbp: yeah
19:08:11 <Arnia> (as people learn new APIs)
19:08:12 <sivy> sbp: I expect two apps
19:08:13 <sbp> 11:07AM - Showing Numbers now. “Let’s do some typical spreadsheet tasks — without a keyboard and mouse.”
19:08:21 <Arnia> but as long as there is an iPhone market...
19:08:22 <sbp> edsu: heh
19:08:26 <sivy> an iPad app and a smaller iphone app
19:08:31 <sivy> perhaps even a new model
19:08:42 <sivy> app-lite for iphone, and $app for ipad
19:08:51 <Morbus> i still want wow.
19:08:54 <Morbus> it could totally run on this thing.
19:09:02 <sbp> "Just as you would on the desktop app, you can change text layout and image wrapping – he’s pasted in an image of a giraffe and the text is automatically reflowing"
19:09:05 <Morbus> I suppose an iWork-like app was all that was missing from the iPhone in order to allow businesspeople to “work from the road” and leave their computers at home.
19:09:11 <sbp> — Vincent Nguyen - 11:07.AM
19:09:18 <sbp> true
19:09:23 <Morbus> number keyboard: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0348-rm-eng.jpg
19:09:34 <sbp> Jacqui Cheng: There's a special data entry keyboard that comes up. "The default keyboard is exactly what you need"
19:09:52 <sbp> number keyboard bigsize: http://c0581892.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/apple-tablet-keynote_158.jpg
19:09:53 <Morbus> bigger one: http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/appletablet/appletabletb492.jpg
19:10:06 <sbp> what's the ***** I wonder?
19:10:15 <Morbus> hrm?
19:10:19 <Morbus> oh.
19:10:19 <sivy> password field
19:10:21 <sivy> ?
19:10:33 <Morbus> yeah, might be, cos there's a checkbox below it.
19:10:33 <sivy> there's a "checkbox" one to
19:10:39 <sivy> too
19:10:39 <sbp> Chen: So far we’ve covered ebooks and newspapers (TV and movies were already there from the iPhone), but we haven’t covered magazines yet. I wonder what that’s going to be like.
19:10:45 <Morbus> 11:09AM Interesting. A data entry keyboard just for entering info into a spreadsheet. There are a number of different keyboard for specific tasks, also a date and time keyboard.
19:10:49 <Morbus> 11:10AM It looks as though these new dropdowns menus are a major part of the iPad OS. Will be interesting to see how this translates to the iPhone and iPod touch. Is there going to be room? Or will they be left out entirely?
19:11:01 <sbp> I thought they looked like ratings stars
19:11:03 <sbp> not asterisks
19:11:11 <sivy> sbp: ah, huh
19:11:12 <Morbus> Also, I’m not seeing a front-camera on this thing for a webcam on the virtual iPad on screen. But that could be just hidden.
19:11:12 <sbp> but with the checkbox, makes sense
19:11:15 <sivy> you may eb right
19:11:19 <sivy> a new field type?
19:11:27 <sbp> pie charts: http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/appletablet/appletabletb496.jpg
19:11:27 <Morbus> yeah, looked liek stars to me too.
19:11:37 <sbp> sivy: oh look, here's a ratings field: http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/appletablet/appletabletb498.jpg
19:11:40 <sbp> so I'm guessing ratings
19:11:42 <Morbus> 11:11AM And the iWork demo is done. "So what are we going to charge for applications like this? We're gong to charge just $9.99 each." He means $10 for Pages, $10 for Keynote... etc.
19:11:43 <Morbus> WOW
19:11:46 <Morbus> that is very surprising.
19:11:53 <sbp> oh, they've separated them out?
19:11:54 <Morbus> considering the desktop one is like 79
19:11:56 <sbp> that's interesting!
19:11:58 <Morbus> i thought.
19:11:58 <sbp> yeah!
19:12:14 <sbp> that's actually reasonable
19:12:14 <Morbus> http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0355-rm-eng.jpg
19:12:16 <sivy> "connect to projector"
19:12:18 <Morbus> "easily connect to projectors"
19:12:22 <Arnia> WOOP
19:12:22 <sbp> so you could get the Pages app
19:12:23 <Arnia> BUY
19:12:24 <sivy> wonder if we can do extenal display
19:12:26 <sbp> hehe
19:12:30 <Morbus> :D
19:12:37 <Morbus> Steve Jobs is back on stage. “Isn’t it great?”
19:12:44 <Morbus> DEAR GOD I WANT ONE.
19:12:49 <Morbus> ;)
19:12:53 <sivy> "WAS IT GOOD FOR YOU?"
19:12:54 <sbp> 11:12AM - “I’d like to talk for a minute about iTunes. The iPad syncs over USB with iTunes exactly like an iPhone or iPod touch. So when you sync, you sync everything. Photos, music, movies, TV shows, contacts, calendars, bookmarks, apps…”
19:12:55 <sbp> hehe
19:12:55 * Arnia won't need to lug his laptop abroad now!
19:12:55 <Arnia> Yay
19:12:58 <Morbus> 11:12AM "Isn't it great?" Some slight hesitation. "A few other things. I'd like to talk for a minute about iTunes. The iPad syncs over USB just like an iPhone or iPod."
19:13:00 <Morbus> liars.
19:13:07 <Morbus> oh, his hesitation.
19:13:08 <Morbus> not the crowds.
19:13:27 <chx> well, Keynote would be pointless w/o external display wouldnt it
19:13:30 <Morbus> hrm. so possible usb hdd then?
19:13:39 <Morbus> 11:13AM "Now I'd like to talk about wireless networking. Every iPad has WiFi... but we're also going to have models with 3G."
19:13:39 <sivy> ah, some models with 3g
19:13:41 <sivy> not all
19:13:41 <sbp> Jacqui Cheng: WiFi + 3G
19:13:44 <Morbus> hrm.
19:13:54 <sbp> so, like iPhone/iPad split
19:14:00 <sbp> but I wonder how that works with storage size
19:14:02 <chx> the iPad in itself surely wont carry the Jobs reality distorton field, replacing projectors with the picture shown on your jesus tablet.
19:14:05 <Morbus> http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/appletablet/appletabletb515.jpg
19:14:09 <Morbus> the hell does that mean.
19:14:13 <sbp> like, only 64GB on 3G?
19:14:21 <sbp> woah
19:14:22 <sbp> weird slide
19:14:26 <Morbus> yeah.
19:14:28 <Morbus> totally confusing.
19:14:34 <sbp> 11:14AM "Now what does it cost for the data plans? Well in the US carriers charge about $60 a month. We have a real breakthrough. Two awesome plans for iPad owners. The first one gives you 250MB of data a month for $14.99."
19:14:35 <Morbus> 11:14AM "Now what does it cost for the data plans? Well in the US carriers charge about $60 a month. We have a real breakthrough. Two awesome plans for iPad owners. The first one gives you 250MB of data a month for $14.99."
19:14:37 <sbp> there we go
19:14:38 <Arnia> chx: any point to that utterance?
19:14:39 <sbp> data plans?
19:14:45 <sbp> still confused
19:14:48 <Morbus> why do i need a data plan?
19:14:51 <Morbus> why can't i use my own wireless.
19:14:53 <chx> Arnia: i am ranting
19:14:57 <sbp> oh, I see
19:14:57 <sbp> 11:14AM "We have a breakthrough deal with AT&T." Wow. Some serious sharp intakes of breath here.
19:15:03 <Arnia> chx: why?
19:15:11 <sbp> 11:14AM "We have an unlimited plan for just $29.99 a month."
19:15:14 <chx> Arnia: just because
19:15:18 <chx> 30 bucks?
19:15:22 <Morbus> i'm so confused. why can't i use my own wireless or local free wireless.
19:15:30 <chx> wasnt AT&T beaten hard enough with the iPhone?
19:15:32 <sivy> Apple: "AT&T, you'd better bend over and take this or we're goingt to Verizon"
19:15:37 <sbp> Morbus: you can, Wifi
19:15:40 <Arnia> I currently pay £30pcm for 10GB 3G tethering on O2...
19:15:42 <sbp> this is talking about the 3G
19:15:48 <sbp> for people who have to move about
19:15:54 <litwol> 30$ is not bad at all
19:15:54 <Morbus> oh, ok.
19:15:57 <sbp> so they're still locked into AT&T
19:15:58 <Morbus> see how much i don't go outside? ;)
19:16:00 <sbp> yeah
19:16:12 <sbp> a lot of people might still be pissed at being locked in to AT&T
19:16:15 <Morbus> 11:15AM "So how do you turn this on and manage it? You can activate this right on the iPad. And there's no contract -- it's prepaid."
19:16:15 <sbp> even with the really good price
19:16:17 <Morbus> that's really neat.
19:16:28 <litwol> hey did he say anything about multi tasking ?
19:16:34 <Morbus> none reported.
19:16:35 <sivy> no contract
19:16:35 <litwol> would be pointless if you could run a single app at a time
19:16:45 <Arnia> litwol: why 'pointless'?
19:16:47 <Morbus> 11:16AM "So we have a breakthrough deal in the US. We hope to have our international deals in the June / July timeframe. However, all of the iPad 3G models are unlocked, and they use the new GSM microSIMs."
19:16:50 <sbp> chuckle: gdgt: 11:15AM - “AT&T’s throwing in free WiFi hotspot use, too.” Great, because their network certainly won’t be working well enough to depend on this. “There’s no contract — it’s pre-paid. You can cancel at any time.”
19:16:54 <Morbus> all unlocked!
19:16:55 <Morbus> wow.
19:16:55 <Arnia> That's a massive statement to make
19:16:57 <sivy> and unlocked GSM
19:17:06 <litwol> Arnia: i'd love to chill on irc while readinga book or doing some coding
19:17:13 <sbp> unlocked GSM? what does that mean?
19:17:13 <litwol> O_o
19:17:14 <litwol> whoa
19:17:16 <Morbus> So this is the US, but what about internationally? They hope to have international deals in place by June. “We’re going to start on that tomorrow.” But, all iPad 3G models are unlocked, and they use GSM micro SIMs, so if your carrier offers micro SIMs, “they’ll just work.”
19:17:18 <chx> yeah but i bet it wont support AWS (T-Mobile/ Wind in Canada)
19:17:19 <sbp> (see how much I know about mobiles)
19:17:22 <Arnia> that's still different to pointless
19:17:35 <litwol> pointless for me -_-
19:17:39 <sbp> ah, so you can use any carrier?
19:17:42 <Morbus> 11:17AM "WiFI plus 3G if you want it. So iPad. It's phenomenal. Email is fantastic, best device for photos, great for music, great for video. It runs almost all of the 140k apps on the app store, as well as a whole new generation of apps."
19:17:42 <Arnia> sbp: it isn't locked to a particular carrier, because you're not in a given contract
19:17:42 <sbp> but only internationally?
19:17:47 <litwol> anyway where can i buy this now ?
19:17:52 <sbp> Arnia: only internationally though?
19:17:57 <Morbus> litwol: we're getting there.
19:18:07 <Morbus> that's always the last thing he says ;)
19:18:11 <sbp> oh wait, and even AT&T isn't locked because it's not a contract?
19:18:11 <sbp> hmm
19:18:13 <chx> and now... the price.
19:18:15 <Arnia> sbp: don't know... I'll wait to see what O2 announces
19:18:19 <sbp> k
19:18:19 <Morbus> 11:17AM "What should we price it at?"
19:18:28 <sbp> price!
19:18:41 <Morbus> http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0374-rm-eng.jpg
19:18:42 <Morbus> hehehehe
19:18:43 <sivy> $999 is my guess
19:18:46 <sbp> Jacqui Cheng: "if you listen to the pundits, we're gonna price it at $999."
19:18:59 <Morbus> hrm. he'd only say that if he's gonna make it lower.
19:19:00 <sbp> 499
19:19:08 <sivy> 699
19:19:08 <Morbus> 11:18AM "If you listen to the pundits, we're going to price it under $1000, which is code for $999. When we set out to develop this, we had ambitious tech goals, but we had aggressive price goals."
19:19:11 <sbp> lower than just about anything I've seen
19:19:14 <sbp> no it's 499
19:19:15 <sivy> holy CARP sbp picked it
19:19:15 <chx> Holy shit
19:19:21 <Morbus> holy fuck,.
19:19:24 <litwol> what ?
19:19:25 <litwol> what ?
19:19:27 <sivy> *starts at*
19:19:27 <Morbus> “I am thrilled to announce to you that the iPad pricing starts, not at $999, but at $499.”
19:19:28 <sbp> http://c0581892.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/apple-tablet-keynote_177.jpg
19:19:40 <litwol> omg
19:19:41 <sbp> sure, that'll be 16 GB without 3G
19:19:42 <sivy> guess is the 64gb version is more
19:19:57 <litwol> $999 for 64gb version lol
19:19:58 <chx> sbp: i dont think there will be any w/o 3G
19:19:59 <litwol> that would suck
19:20:03 <sbp> Jacqui Cheng: 3G model costs extra $130
19:20:03 <sivy> but with all the connectivity, you coul put a lot of stuff in the clous
19:20:07 <sivy> cloud
19:20:12 <sbp> saw the price first on ars by the way: http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/01/tablet-live-event-liveblog.ars
19:20:20 <Morbus> Then there’s 32GB for $599 and 64GB for $699. These are for the Wi-Fi only version.
19:20:21 <sbp> sivy: you're wrong
19:20:23 <Morbus> And the 3G models cost an extra $130, so $629, $729 and $829 for the 3G-capable models.
19:20:32 <Morbus> 829 for fully packed, looks like.
19:20:35 <sivy> sbp: that's hardly news
19:20:35 <sbp> yeah
19:20:47 <sbp> so even the fully packed is about what they were predicting for the entry range
19:21:04 <Morbus> prices: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0378-rm-eng.jpg
19:21:05 <sbp> Jacqui Cheng: shipping in 60 days worldwide
19:21:12 <sbp> Jacqui Cheng: someone behind me said "Fuck the Crunchpad!!!"
19:21:20 <sbp> the Crunchpad?
19:21:25 <Morbus> the crunchpad?
19:21:38 <Arnia> wow...
19:21:40 <litwol> now need to figure out if i can survive with such limited storage space
19:21:49 <Arnia> The Crunchpad was a tablet idea
19:21:53 <sbp> Chen: It’ll be another 30 days beyond that for 3G models.
19:21:56 <Morbus> what do you need for a mobile app more than 64g?
19:22:08 <litwol> typically after os and essentials install i'd be 20-30 gb down off the back :(
19:22:11 <chx> a _keyboard_ ????
19:22:20 <Morbus> keyboard: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0384-rm-eng.jpg
19:22:22 <sbp> litwol: we don't know what OS it's running
19:22:40 <sbp> another view of the keyboard: http://c0581892.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/apple-tablet-keynote_184.jpg
19:22:41 <chx> litwol: no way, there are 16GB versions...
19:22:54 <Arnia> I have a 16GB iPhone and that suits me fine... and a 120GB MacBook
19:22:55 <litwol> damn it has a keyboad
19:23:05 <litwol> this thing is pimp :-D
19:23:05 <sbp> presumably it has a very slimline OS like the iPhone
19:23:05 <chx> YES!
19:23:10 <chx> now it's interesting.
19:23:10 <Morbus> The keyboard looks just like a standard Apple keyboard. And, there’s a carrying case (like the Kindle’s), and works as a stand too.
19:23:10 <sivy> holy shit physical keyboard + dock
19:23:18 <Morbus> this is insane.
19:23:24 <chx> up until now i was yawning (aside from IPS screen)
19:23:31 <Morbus> 11:22AM Jonny Ive talking about magical devices. "That's exactly what the iPad is." Magical? Really? Doesn't seem that magical to us!
19:23:32 <chx> but with a keyboard? at this price point? gimme.
19:23:34 <Morbus> pff
19:23:39 <litwol> what's ips ?
19:23:48 <sivy> it's a kind of LCD
19:23:51 <Morbus> i dont' want to wiat 90 days for the 3g version.
19:23:53 <sbp> side of the device: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0391-rm-eng.jpg
19:23:59 <Arnia> the iPhone OS is a cleaned up OS X
19:24:07 <sbp> Morbus: you're not getting 3G, so you don't have to? :-)
19:24:09 <Arnia> (OS X is pretty slimline itself really...)
19:24:09 <Morbus> and a os x is only like 10g.
19:24:11 <chx> litwol: http://www.pchardwarehelp.com/guides/lcd-panel-types.php
19:24:18 <sivy> "in-plane-switching"
19:24:26 <Morbus> sbp: i'd want to anyways. i *might* go outside, and if i can buy it in the thing, i can buy it when i want to.
19:24:27 <sbp> back and side: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0394-rm-eng.jpg
19:24:27 <chx> litwol: in short, it's the best type of LCD so far made (aside from OLED screens)
19:24:31 <sbp> Morbus: ah
19:24:46 <Morbus> sbp: a gmap gps "here's how to get here" would be useful to m.
19:24:51 <chx> this is neat. Is it rooted already?
19:24:52 <sbp> Chen: There’s no camera on the back, and there doesn’t seem like there’s a front camera either.
19:24:56 <[bjoern]> So what's the most exciting news so far? Does Jobs have a new hat?
19:25:06 <chx> Morbus: why? you never go outside, why do you need a map.
19:25:10 <litwol> i'm certainly going to wait for 3g model
19:25:27 <Arnia> I want...
19:25:27 <litwol> sucks that its not 4g ready though
19:25:28 <sbp> Jacqui Cheng: Video says "onscreen keyboard is practically the same size as a laptop's keyboard!"
19:25:34 <Arnia> I really really want
19:25:45 <Arnia> litwol: that would be expensive...
19:25:47 <Morbus> 90 days. jeez. plenty of time to save off a disposable 869 ;)
19:25:54 <sbp> chx: if he does get dragged out, he needs to find his way back! :-)
19:26:05 <Morbus> http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0401-rm-eng.jpg
19:26:07 <sbp> keyboard with fingers: http://c0581892.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/apple-tablet-keynote_197.jpg
19:26:07 <Morbus> hands on keyboard ^^
19:26:11 <sbp> heh
19:26:12 <Morbus> heh, heh.
19:26:28 <Morbus> ok. i gotta get outta here.
19:26:30 *** kpreid (n=kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com) has joined #swhack
19:26:33 <Morbus> i heard what i needed ot hear.
19:26:34 * Morbus waves.
19:26:37 <Morbus> i'm totally getting one.
19:26:42 <Morbus> 869++
19:26:59 <Arnia> Morbus: bye!
19:27:08 <sbp> see ya Morb!
19:27:17 <Morbus> case: http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/appletablet/appletabletb557.jpg
19:27:25 <sbp> en: 11:26AM So to recap. No multitasking. No word on notifications
19:27:30 <Morbus> 11:26AM So to recap. No multitasking. No word on notifications.
19:27:33 <sbp> case looks nice
19:27:36 <Morbus> not sure they can say "no" there.
19:27:38 <Morbus> versus "no mention of".
19:27:50 <Morbus> but, i'll agree with 'em anyways.
19:27:54 <sbp> gdgt: 11:26AM - Yeah, you know, this video does a pretty good job of putting this stuff in perspective. iPad is pretty amazing — there, I said it.
19:28:12 <sbp> 11:26AM No phone calls from what we can tell.
19:28:16 <Arnia> I'm a bit disappointed by the lack of multitasking... but I'm not sure what UI I'd use for it, so I'm not too disappointed
19:28:21 <sbp> 11:27AM "The iPad is the most advanced piece of tech that I've ever worked on at Apple."
19:28:44 <sbp> Chen: “There’s going to be a whole new gold rush for app developers.”
19:28:48 <litwol> looks awesome
19:28:49 <sbp> (he's quoting Steve?)
19:28:58 <sbp> oh, Ive rather?
19:29:08 <sbp> Vincent Nguyen - 11:27.AM
19:29:08 <sbp> We’re still waiting on hearing about multitasking, and iPhone OS 4.0
19:29:35 <Arnia> are we going to hear about those things now?
19:29:41 <archels> http://www.technologyreview.com/communications/24414/?nlid=2696&a=f
19:29:44 <sbp> I think any grumbling about such things if not is going to be minimal
19:29:45 <archels> But does it have *that*?
19:29:47 <sbp> given what we've seen so far
19:29:50 <Arnia> I'm a little in shock over how good this is
19:29:59 <Arnia> I thought it would be good... but not THIS good
19:30:07 <sbp> Chen: And the chip inside is the Apple A4 chip made by their hardware team. They didn’t say this was worked on by the company they purchased last year, but it might be.
19:30:28 <sbp> I'm impressed at the interface, battery life, and price
19:30:54 <litwol> rly need to know about multitastking. thats the last gem to top it off
19:30:59 <sbp> video is done
19:31:00 <Arnia> archels: I doubt it... it would be too soon to integrate into a polished product
19:31:04 <Arnia> archels: next rev maybe
19:31:19 <sbp> 11:30AM "Do we have what it takes to establish a third category of products?"
19:32:03 <sivy> my wife is totally on board
19:32:05 <sbp> Chen: “This defines our vision, our sense of what’s next.” – Jon Ive
19:33:03 <sbp> Jacqui Cheng: Always tried to be at the intersection of technology and liberal arts
19:33:18 <sbp> event over, I guess
19:33:54 <sbp> oh, chuckle: http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/appletablet/appletabletb601.jpg
19:33:58 <sbp> that metaphor was illustrated
19:34:03 <sbp> he really did have fun with those slides
19:34:21 <sbp> 11:33AM That's it. TIme for a hands-on!
19:34:24 <sbp> event over
19:34:31 <sivy> nothing on apple.com yet
19:34:33 <sbp> Jacqui Cheng: The event is over, heading over now!
19:34:48 <sbp> will be interested to see the UK price
19:34:57 <sbp> Arnia: what do you think $499 will translate to?
19:35:03 <Arnia> £600
19:35:16 <Arnia> I'm not sure though
19:35:27 <sbp> I was kinda hoping £350... :-)
19:35:55 <Arnia> Actually... probably £400
19:36:02 <Arnia> we'll see
19:36:04 <sivy> http://www.apple.com/ipad/
19:36:30 <litwol> considering that 3g enabled models are coming 3 months from now, i think it is perfect oportunity to wait and see if early adopters can find problems with ipad
19:36:39 * sbp looks at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPad
19:37:07 <sbp> still don't know what OS it uses
19:38:40 <sbp> man, they must be going mad trying to get a hands on over there
19:39:14 <sbp> Gizmodo: “When we first heard the rumor of a kickstand for the tablet, we laughed. But actually, Apple's case/kickstand makes sense. It's made from leather, and works as both a case and stand, optimizing your movie viewing.”
19:39:47 <sbp> video of Google Maps on iPad: http://i.gizmodo.com/5458331/google-maps-on-the-ipad-+-video
19:39:52 <archels> heh, the beeb is there.
19:40:28 <Arnia> Right, that's decided it
19:40:59 <Arnia> I originally intended my next upgrade to be to an iMac and then (a few months later) get an MBA
19:41:02 <sbp> drop down to street view is nice
19:41:09 <Arnia> just going to get an iMac and an iPad now
19:41:20 <sbp> video of book reading: http://i.gizmodo.com/5458329/what-it-looks-like-to-read-a-book-on-the-apple-ipad-+-video
19:42:05 <sbp> heh, the page thingy
19:42:06 <Arnia> I really am in shock...
19:42:10 <Arnia> really really in shock
19:42:34 <sbp> was that a bookmark on the contents page?
19:43:42 <Arnia> yeah
19:44:01 <sivy> video in books
19:44:08 <sbp> the reveal: http://i.gizmodo.com/5458302/steve-jobs-reveals-the-ipad-+-video
19:44:13 <sivy> we're living in the god damned future.
19:44:16 <sbp> hehe
19:45:29 <sbp> http://static.arstechnica.com/ipad/apple_ipad_3g.jpg
19:45:43 <sbp> triple perspective
19:45:54 <sivy> i think the leather case will be the most popular accessory
19:46:03 <sivy> i love hos it props it up
19:46:11 <sivy> for typing or viewing
19:48:34 <sivy> hm
19:48:36 <sivy> ipad has a mic
19:48:49 <sivy> wonder if it will do phone calls with 3g?
19:49:11 <sbp> it does have a mic? hmm
19:49:19 <sbp> I'd have thought they'd have shown that if it did
19:49:23 <sivy> yes, in the tech specs on apple.com
19:49:29 <sivy> http://www.apple.com/ipad/specs/
19:49:37 <sivy> Input and Output
19:49:37 <sivy> Dock connector
19:49:37 <sivy> 3.5-mm stereo headphone jack
19:49:38 <sivy> Built-in speakers
19:49:38 <sivy> Microphone
19:49:38 <sivy> SIM card tray (Wi-Fi + 3G model only)
19:49:38 <sbp> sivy: http://www.apple.com/
19:49:43 <sbp> ah, yeah
19:50:05 <sbp> video!
19:50:05 <sbp> http://www.apple.com/ipad/#video
19:50:37 <litwol> the type of OS will determine just how usefull/less this will be for development
19:50:56 <Arnia> It isn't FOR development
19:51:04 <Arnia> or do you mean to develop for
19:51:17 <Arnia> (ugh, hanging preposition)
19:51:33 <litwol> no i mean i'd love to be able to do some coding on this thing while on the road
19:51:42 <litwol> although, with 3g nothing stops me from sshing to my vps
19:51:45 <Arnia> Bespin
19:51:46 <litwol> i think that solves the problem
19:51:56 * Arnia likes Bespin
19:54:22 <sivy> "pinch-to-peek" in the photos app is insane
19:55:37 <litwol> it has a built in mic
19:55:44 <litwol> now i wonder whether skype will work on this
19:56:47 <litwol> anyhow
19:56:55 <litwol> thx guys. this was fun. nice meeting all of you.
19:57:03 *** litwol has parted #swhack (""if you are not 100% unavailable for at least 2 hours a day, you probably aren't getting much done that's of any importance.")
19:58:19 <Arnia> I take it we are likely to have an iPhone OS 4 event in a couple of months then
19:58:25 <sbp> the video there is what they showed in the event
19:58:31 <sbp> it explained some things quite well
19:58:43 <sbp> pinch-to-peek was really good, yeah
19:59:13 <Arnia> "import them directly from your camera using the Apple Camera Connection Kit."
19:59:23 <Arnia> Do you have a link to a video of pinch-to-peak?
19:59:25 <sbp> seeing the doublesizing of the iPhone apps was interesting too
19:59:27 <Arnia> uh, peek
19:59:32 <sbp> Arnia: http://www.apple.com/ipad/#video
19:59:37 <sbp> this is what they showed in the event
19:59:43 <sbp> pinch-to-peek and all sorts therein
19:59:53 <sbp> plus familiar quotes from the text sources
20:00:57 <sbp> something we didn't see, Notes:
20:00:57 <sbp> http://images.apple.com/ipad/features/images/notes_20100127.jpg
20:01:18 <sbp> Spotlight:
20:01:18 <sbp> http://images.apple.com/ipad/features/images/search_20100127.jpg
20:02:50 <sbp> photo of the case as a stand:
20:02:50 <sbp> http://images.apple.com/ipad/design/images/accessories_20100127.jpg
20:03:41 <Arnia> The case is pretty too
20:05:08 <sbp> yeah
20:05:56 <sbp> BBC Video: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8483654.stm
20:08:11 <Arnia> ok the transitions between the reader and book store are cool
20:08:16 <sbp> mail can have a floating inbox view:
20:08:17 <sbp> http://images.apple.com/ipad/gallery/images/gallery-software-mail-20100127.jpg
20:08:20 <sbp> yeah, heh
20:08:50 <sbp> oh!
20:08:52 <sbp> "iPod
20:08:52 <sbp> The iPod app lets you browse by album, song, artist, genre, or playlist, with just a tap or a flick. So all your music is literally at your fingertips."
20:08:57 <sbp> http://images.apple.com/ipad/gallery/images/gallery-software-ipod-20100127.jpg
20:09:05 <sbp> they're calling the music player in the iPad... iPod
20:09:08 <sbp> not iTunes
20:09:14 <sbp> iTunes is just for the store I guess
20:09:17 <sbp> that's a little confusing, I think
20:09:31 <Arnia> It is called 'iPod' on the iPhone
20:09:53 <sbp> is it? ah, okay
20:09:56 <sbp> on the iPod it's called Music
20:10:24 <sbp> calendar again: http://images.apple.com/ipad/gallery/images/gallery-software-calendar-20100127.jpg
20:10:55 <sbp> 1024-by-768-pixel resolution at 132 pixels per inch (ppi)
20:11:29 <sbp> Mac requirements: Mac OS X v10.5.8 or later
20:12:42 <sbp> “Prices in US Dollars. International pricing will be announced at a later date.”
20:12:48 <sbp> — http://www.apple.com/ipad/pricing/
20:13:04 <Arnia> So, overall opinion? Fit or flop?
20:13:06 <sbp> still don't know what OS it uses...
20:13:09 <sbp> fit
20:13:18 <archels> XGA? Oh no.
20:13:35 <Arnia> I reckon the OS will be 3.2 until 4.0 is announced
20:13:44 <sbp> Arnia: especially since I imagine devs are going to have a *field day*
20:13:51 <sbp> gold rush might be an understatement
20:13:53 <Arnia> It makes me curious about when 4.0 will be released
20:14:00 <sbp> platinum rush, californium rush...
20:14:07 <sbp> mmm, yeah
20:14:09 <Arnia> sbp: yesterday I was thinking about what I'd do with a UI like this
20:14:24 <Arnia> sbp: I just thought 'exploratory data analysis' and drooled
20:14:34 <sbp> :-)
20:14:51 <Arnia> I have an idea for a product like that actually
20:16:01 <Arnia> I'm dreading seeing what rants appear on the forums though
20:16:17 <sbp> well, it will be interesting to see how it shapes up against the Kindle
20:16:19 <Arnia> I can imagine a lot of people will complain about it being a 'large iPod touch'
20:16:23 <sbp> hehe
20:16:30 <sbp> well that was one of the big surprises to me
20:16:40 <sbp> for about the first thirty minutes I was thinking large iPod touch
20:16:45 <Arnia> missing the point that the extra space in the interface allows for far more expressive multitouch
20:16:48 <sbp> but it slowly dawned on me that it's really not
20:16:49 <sbp> yeah
20:17:00 <sbp> on the Kindle, I still think Amazon have a big advantage
20:17:03 <Arnia> and the extra horsepower in the processor is awesome
20:17:03 <sbp> in that they're Amazon
20:17:08 <Arnia> Well, yes
20:17:23 <Arnia> but the use of ePub and the fact that they're talking to publishers directly erodes that a bit
20:17:25 <sbp> the five publisher deal and the high book prices is surprising
20:17:28 <Arnia> quite a large bit
20:17:30 <sbp> I think they kinda failed there
20:17:49 <sbp> and I think if they had more publishers on board, the book store would have a got a lot more presentation time
20:17:52 <Arnia> Well, the kindle app will be updated probably
20:18:08 <Arnia> (to use the extra resolution and power)
20:18:28 <Arnia> Amazon, I think, don't really care if you use their reader hardware as long as you buy their books
20:18:39 <sbp> Wikipedia is sloowwwwly catching up
20:18:41 <Arnia> and Apple really care most about selling the hardware
20:18:47 <sbp> yeah, maybe
20:18:55 <Arnia> Look at their quarterly financials
20:19:00 <sbp> shame Apple and Amazon can't partner really
20:19:02 <Arnia> iTunes makes very very little money
20:19:04 <sbp> instead of bickering here
20:19:06 <sbp> yeah
20:19:08 <sbp> saw about that
20:19:14 <sbp> staggeringly unprofitable
20:19:22 <Arnia> well, it *is* profitable
20:19:28 <Arnia> it just is only *just* profitable
20:19:42 <Arnia> they run it as a break-even leader
20:19:46 <sbp> well, imagine if they put the resources for it elsewhere
20:19:57 <Arnia> hm?
20:20:11 <sbp> actually nm, that doesn't make sense
20:20:58 <sbp> I was just thinking that Apple could realign their resources away from what's making the least profit
20:21:05 <sbp> but it wouldn't work like that of course
20:21:23 <sbp> even if you think of it in terms of what they ought to have done instead of an iTMS
20:22:19 <Arnia> but the integrated ecosystem is one of the big value propositions for customers...
20:22:43 <Arnia> and Apple realise this and want to retain control over all the risks and developments associated with that ecosystem
20:22:47 <sbp> yeah, that's what made me realise I'm an idiot
20:23:01 <sbp> it's not the direct benefit, it's the indirect benefit (what you've called the ecosystem)
20:23:01 <Arnia> (they bought their own chip company for goodness sake)
20:23:05 <sbp> heh, yeah
20:23:43 <sbp> wonder if FlowChat will redevelop for the iPad
20:23:50 <sbp> or if X-Chat is more likely to develop down
20:23:53 <sbp> see, actually, that's a nice thing
20:24:03 <sbp> the SDK seems more oriented towards *iPhone developers scaling up*
20:24:07 <chx> that's what they said the iPad uses, some apple CPU
20:24:09 <chx> or so i think?
20:24:13 <sivy> "And because iPad has built-in Bluetooth 2.1, it’ll work with an Apple Wireless Keyboard, too."
20:24:16 <sbp> which is good because iPhone UI is better than desktop UI...
20:24:35 <Arnia> sbp: indeed... the iPhone UI is more like how computers SHOULD look IMO
20:24:40 <sbp> (app UI I mean)
20:24:41 <sbp> yeah
20:24:41 <Arnia> (given current technology)
20:25:02 <Arnia> Desktop UIs seem really clunky and old fashioned
20:25:17 <sbp> yeah, using an iPhone is a bizarre breath of fresh air
20:25:24 <sbp> I couldn't believe how nicely FlowChat is designed
20:25:34 <sbp> Star Walk was another one that really made me have a "wow" moment
20:25:43 <Arnia> chx: yes, probably (although not definitely) a variant of the Cortex A9 base design
20:25:51 <sbp> very simple, very pretty, very responsive
20:25:53 <sivy> the iPad is scarily like a PADD
20:26:08 <Arnia> sivy: but with a decent UI
20:26:12 <sbp> most desktop apps only manage to get pretty, and even that is rare
20:26:18 <sbp> in fact...
20:26:27 <sivy> it's just missing the female ensign in the min
20:26:29 <sivy> mini skirt
20:26:31 <sbp> of all the apps I've got open now, none is as good as an average iPhone app
20:26:44 <sbp> except maybe Safari
20:26:50 <sbp> Safari on the iPhone is surprisingly poor
20:27:36 <Arnia> sbp: I think that's because WebKit is actually quite an expensive app, performance wise
20:27:46 <sbp> yeah, makes sense
20:28:01 <sbp> definitely the hardest regular app to miniaturise
20:28:04 <Arnia> I mean, WebKit is leaner than Gecko (a lot leaner) but they still count bytes in their data structures
20:28:12 <chx> Arnia: you think it's a multicore??? at 1ghz that'd be a lot of processing pwoer.
20:28:34 <sbp> chx: it looks very responsive
20:28:36 <Arnia> (seriously, I made a suggestion for a feature for webkit and they told me no because it would require adding an optional dictionary data structure to the CSS model)
20:28:45 <sbp> did you see what they said about videos playing *instantly*?
20:28:48 <Arnia> chx: Cortex A9 is dual core
20:28:52 <Arnia> sbp: yeah
20:29:05 <Arnia> I'm wondering if they're using a reference design from their pet graphics company for it too
20:29:31 <Arnia> (they've just released a design that can do OpenGL 3 and OpenCL on a SoC system)
20:29:47 <Arnia> not OpenGL ES3... OpenGL FULL 3
20:30:14 <sbp> hmm
20:30:21 <deltab> Arnia: what feature?
20:30:25 <sbp> before the release I was thinking 10in was too big
20:30:58 <Arnia> deltab: allowing javascript access to style properties for DOM nodes
20:31:04 <Arnia> (open style properties)
20:31:07 <sbp> now I'm thinking it's not too big — because basically if you want an iPhone quality UI scaled up to standard computing size, this does seem a pretty optimal size for that
20:31:14 <chx> that means its way more powerful than your usual atom netbook
20:31:27 <chx> i bet they have some video decode/accelerator thingie in there too.
20:31:31 <Arnia> .title http://www.imgtec.com/News/Release/index.asp?NewsID=516
20:31:33 <phenny> Arnia: Imagination Technologies announces POWERVR SGX545 graphics IP core with full DirectX 10.1, OpenGL 3.2 and OpenCL 1.0 capabilities
20:31:41 <sbp> chx: and they had a small transition effect
20:31:46 <sbp> but that seemed sub-1-second
20:31:46 <chx> somethin like that yah
20:31:47 <deltab> Arnia: open meaning ones that aren't understood?
20:31:52 <Arnia> deltab: yes
20:31:57 <Arnia> rather than throwing them away
20:32:21 <Arnia> it would have allowed experimentation with CSS
20:32:31 <sbp> heh, interesting idea
20:32:34 <Arnia> so you could test different ideas
20:32:46 <sbp> you could map border-radius on to -webkit-border-radius... :-)
20:32:51 <Arnia> (rather than spec it then build it)
20:33:02 <Arnia> sbp: eccstender does what I wanted built in anyway
20:33:11 <sbp> .g eccstender
20:33:11 <Arnia> sbp: but that's quite recent
20:33:12 <phenny> sbp: http://www.onigoetz.ch/
20:33:19 <Arnia> .g eccstender javascript
20:33:19 <phenny> Arnia: http://www.onigoetz.ch/
20:33:30 <deltab> Arnia: hmm, could that be done with offsets into the stylesheet text?
20:33:56 <Arnia> helps if I type correctly
20:33:57 <Arnia> http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=ecsstender
20:34:10 <Arnia> deltab: well, it is already implemented now in Javascript
20:34:24 <Arnia> (and in a way which allows experimentation with selectors too)
20:34:50 <Arnia> chx: this seems a lot more powerful than an Atom netbook
20:34:57 <sbp> Arnia: ah! nice, thanks
20:35:03 <Arnia> What's interesting though is how much of this is software dominated
20:35:15 <Arnia> The Nexus One has a far more powerful processor than the iPhone 3G
20:35:24 <[bjoern]> .c 40955 seconds in hours
20:35:25 <phenny> 40 955 seconds = 11.3763889 hours
20:35:40 <Arnia> yet its UI feels stuttery and the whole thing feels slow
20:35:49 <Arnia> (the Nexus One even has a better graphics chip)
20:36:46 *** sbp changed the topic to: "iPhad"
20:36:47 *** davisp has quit (Remote closed the connection)
20:36:49 <Arnia> If it does have the SGX545 in it, then imagine what developers can do with OpenCL on an iPad
20:37:09 <Arnia> Hell, imagine what game developers can do with OpenGL 3
20:37:21 <sbp> Warcraft!
20:37:34 <Arnia> heh
20:37:41 <sbp> come on Blizz, you can do it
20:37:53 <Arnia> They might actually want to now
20:38:05 <sbp> yeah, I'd give it a 25% possibility
20:38:20 <sbp> depends if it's insanely popular or not
20:38:39 <Arnia> Interesting thing about the economics of iBooks; publishers get 70% of sell price.
20:38:55 <Arnia> Amazon just updated their T&Cs to give publishers 60%
20:39:31 <sbp> yeah, heard about that
20:39:34 <sbp> up from 30% right?
20:39:38 <Arnia> yep
20:39:40 <treed> I thought they did 70/30 if the publisher meets certain requirements.
20:39:52 <treed> WRT pricing and allowing TTS.
20:40:06 * Arnia registers his interest on apple.com
20:40:27 <sivy> you guys here about the kindle app data xfer requirements?
20:40:31 <sivy> hear
20:40:39 <sivy> for that "free" 3g
20:40:39 <Arnia> treed: even so... Apple's T&Cs are likely less onerous
20:40:51 <sbp> sivy: nope?
20:40:51 <Arnia> treed: and Amazon have a lot of ill will from publishers too
20:41:05 <sivy> if your app aloows the user to d/l more than 250K in a month, the developer pays the diff
20:41:08 <Arnia> sivy: yeah... amazing they think this is releasable
20:41:22 <sbp> http://gizmodo.com/5457757/apple-ipad-first-hands-on
20:41:25 <sivy> 250 *kilobytes*
20:41:27 <sbp> with video
20:41:52 <sbp> “It's substantial but surprisingly light. Easy to grip. Beautiful. Rigid. Starkly designed. The glass is a little rubbery but it could be my sweaty hands. And it's fasssstttt.”
20:42:21 <Arnia> can I say again how much I want this damn thing?
20:42:33 <treed> Twice as heavy as a kindle, though.
20:42:50 <treed> Heavier than any paperback I have.
20:43:02 <sivy> auto-orient in any direction
20:43:03 <sivy> wow
20:43:07 <Arnia> *hopes the MathML and XBL projects for webkit get far enough along to roll into OS 4.0*
20:43:10 <treed> And I'd really love to see some substantiation about the battery claims.
20:43:13 <treed> 10 hours of video watching?
20:43:17 <treed> Bullshit.
20:43:38 <Arnia> treed: that's a strong claim to make
20:43:56 <Arnia> treed: I'd only say 'undecided' until I see tests
20:44:11 <Arnia> not the harsh and unwarranted 'bullshit'
20:44:12 <treed> So is "I can fly to Japan watching video the whole time"
20:44:51 <Arnia> It has three times the volume of an iPhone
20:44:54 <sbp> photos bit in that video is good
20:45:02 <treed> And?
20:45:10 <Arnia> and an optimised chipset
20:45:11 <sbp> no mention of a file browser by the way
20:45:12 <treed> I sure as *fuck* could not watch 10 hours of video on the iPhone.
20:45:22 <treed> Or on a MacBook Air, SSD or no.
20:45:34 <Arnia> no, but that's not the same device
20:45:37 <treed> I can't even make it through a day with the iPhone, when I have push enabled.
20:45:42 <Arnia> Ok... ARM chip
20:45:42 <sbp> treed: 10 hours is "max"
20:45:48 <treed> iPhone is also arm chip
20:45:50 <Arnia> three times the battery volume
20:45:52 <treed> sbp: That's not what Steve said.
20:46:01 <sbp> treed: check out the website
20:46:08 <sbp> it's got one of those footnotes...
20:46:15 <treed> "What is the battery life like? We've been able to achieve 10 hours of battery life. I can take a flight from San Francisco to Tokyo and watch video the whole time. And it has over a month of standby time."
20:46:19 <treed> -- Steve Job
20:46:21 <treed> s
20:46:25 <sbp> hmm
20:46:26 <sbp> interesting
20:46:44 <treed> (according to engadget, during the liveblog)
20:46:55 <Arnia> Well, if that isn't the case and they've stated that then they've lied and that will come back to haunt them
20:46:56 <Arnia> b
20:47:02 <sivy> "Of course, on such a pretty web browsing experience, not having Flash makes the big, empty video boxes in the middle of a page is pretty disappointing." -- TO OUR ADVERTISERS
20:47:03 <Arnia> but why would they lie in that case?
20:47:11 <sbp> yeah, people will soon find out
20:47:19 <treed> Arnia: Because things have always lived up to battery claims?
20:47:23 <sbp> complaints about the iPhone battery life were pretty harsh
20:47:29 <treed> tech enthusiasts are used to being lied to about battery life
20:47:30 <Arnia> they can't imagine that people wouldn't notice
20:47:44 <Arnia> treed: doesn't wash with me
20:47:54 <Arnia> not with the perfectionism
20:48:02 <Arnia> it is too transparent a lie if it is a lie
20:48:11 <Arnia> and they would get skewered
20:48:16 *** JibberJim has quit (Connection reset by peer)
20:48:19 <Arnia> (given, as sbp says, history)
20:48:25 <sbp> —
20:48:26 <sbp> iBooks
20:48:26 <sbp> It's an optical illusion, but just seeing the depth of pages makes the iBook app feel more like a book than a Kindle ever did for me. The text is sharp, and while the screen is bright, it doesn't seem to strains the eyes—but time will tell on that.
20:48:27 <sbp> —
20:48:46 <Arnia> Now, this doesn't mean it will go for 10 hours... but I'm willing to wait before passing judgement either way
20:48:56 <sbp> hmm, portrait typing is apparently not bad:
20:48:58 <sbp> —
20:48:58 <sbp> Keyboard
20:48:58 <sbp> Typing in portrait is better than anticipated but still a BIT of a stretch for our average-sized hands, which means that letters like F G and H will take a moderate conditioning for some.
20:48:59 <sbp> —
20:49:07 <Arnia> Any claims to call bullshit at this stage are unwarranted, rude and irrational
20:49:08 <sbp> I doubt very much it'll go 10 hours
20:49:17 <sbp> but I wouldn't be surprised if it's not far under that
20:49:20 <Arnia> There isn't any evidence to make that judgement
20:49:24 <sbp> given what Steve said
20:49:33 <Arnia> I'll wait and see. I can be patient
20:50:08 <sbp> maybe it's one of the things they really, really worked on
20:50:32 <sbp> —
20:50:33 <sbp> Pictures
20:50:33 <sbp> Pinch, zoom, whatever—like we said, it's fast—the photo app is faster than iPhoto performs on an aging Core2Duo laptop.
20:50:34 <sbp> —
20:50:36 <sbp> I was thinking this too
20:50:46 <sbp> the iPad is miles faster than my MacBook
20:50:54 <sbp> which is depressing... :-)
20:52:03 <Arnia> Yeah
20:52:13 <Arnia> Mine is just a core duo
20:52:16 * Arnia sighs
20:52:51 <Arnia> sbp: it was rumoured that the reason they bought PA Semi was because they wanted to eke out the most battery life from the battery volume
20:52:58 <sivy> DI.fm just went into an electro verion of "WElcome To The Jungle". I dedicate this to MS and Dell.
20:52:59 <sbp> Core Duo: same here
20:53:17 <sbp> 2 GHz, which should be... twice as fast! this should be twice as fast! :-)
20:53:28 <Arnia> sbp: plus, they SAID they worked on battery tech
20:53:40 <Arnia> and on making sure the thing was as power efficient as possible
20:53:48 <sbp> yeah, I think they said the chip was made to be mega efficient
20:54:02 <sbp> sivy: :-)
20:54:07 <Arnia> I get... hm... 2 to 3 hours of battery life playing video on my iPhone 3G (bought launch day)
20:54:25 <sbp> I have a latest generation iPod, and it's not good there either
20:54:34 <Arnia> that's with a chipset which is less than perfectly optimised and a slower video decoder system
20:54:49 * sbp doesn't watch much video on it though
20:55:05 <Arnia> so... I can believe it could be scaled to about 9 to 10 hours on an iPad
20:55:19 <Arnia> (with better battery and processor technology coupled with the much larger battery)
20:55:57 <Arnia> That doesn't mean it will of course
20:56:04 <Arnia> but... it isn't impossible
20:57:35 *** chx has parted #swhack ("Konversation terminated!")
20:58:02 <Arnia> it is fascinating if true though
20:58:19 <sbp> Wikipedia is still struggling to cover the iPad
20:59:07 <Arnia> (incidentally, there have been a lot of interesting improvements in battery tech lately; small changes to manufacturing processes that massively increase capacity and charge times... don't know if any of those will be in this device, but someday at least)
20:59:19 <Arnia> sbp: the IPS page was updated the moment he mentioned IPS
20:59:35 <sbp> those apps again: http://theappleblog.com/2010/01/27/third-parties-already-developing-for-apples-ipad/
20:59:36 <sbp> hehe
20:59:47 <sbp> a BBC News app like the NYT one would be good...
21:00:01 <sbp> there isn't even a BBC News app on the iPhone though
21:00:24 <Arnia> maybe if someone else were to write one
21:00:44 <Arnia> (the BBC gets slammed for spending money on cool things remember)
21:00:51 <sbp> true
21:04:04 <Arnia> I note Giz say the weight feels right
21:04:19 <Arnia> (which is good... too light is as bad as too heavy in many ways)
21:04:48 <sbp> yeah, dunno
21:04:56 <sbp> I can't really think about how it would be carried
21:05:01 <sbp> can't think about how I'd carry it
21:05:10 <sbp> would it fit in my overcoat pocket for example?
21:05:42 <Arnia> I think it is more like something I'd stow in my briefcase or rucksack
21:06:14 <Arnia> then curl up with in a cafe or pub
21:06:21 <Arnia> or on the sofa at home
21:06:24 <Arnia> (or in bed)
21:06:54 <sbp> lack of multitasking is probably a good thing in a way
21:07:03 <sbp> multitasking is what drives responsivity down on desktops
21:07:18 <sbp> shame they haven't found some way to have like limited multitasking though...
21:07:23 <sbp> e.g. max two apps open at once
21:07:27 <sbp> A and B apps
21:07:30 <Arnia> and it dramatically increases UI clutter and reduces concentration
21:07:36 <sbp> yeah
21:07:43 <Arnia> well, wait for OS 4.0 and see what that brings
21:07:47 <sbp> sure
21:08:00 <sbp> reminds me of RatPoison
21:08:13 <Arnia> The more I think about it, the more I reckon that this isn't close to OS 4.0's capabilities
21:08:42 <sbp> well at the very least it shows iOS 4.0 is far from ready
21:08:52 <sbp> because otherwise they'd have just delayed the event
21:08:58 <sbp> a January event is pretty weird as it is
21:09:18 <Arnia> I think that it means OS 4.0 will be ready for limited preview in March
21:09:25 <Arnia> but won't be released until June
21:09:27 <sbp> but I also presume this isn't using simply iOS 3.2
21:09:31 <Arnia> (so same cycle as before)
21:09:57 <Arnia> well, it could be iPhone OS X 3.2 with the apps updated
21:10:02 <Arnia> and new APIs added
21:10:11 <Arnia> (but that's just adding frameworks to the build)
21:10:35 <Arnia> on the other hand, building those new frameworks could have delayed work on OS 4
21:11:14 <sbp> —
21:11:17 <sbp> That said, Apple is releasing a new iPhone SDK which will support creative native iPad apps. However, at this stage it’s not known if the iPad’s OS is indeed a third branch of the OS X core – an iPad OS – or if it’s a device-adaptive ‘universal binary’ which will rear its head as iPhone OS 4.0.
21:11:18 <sbp> —
21:11:23 <sbp> from http://apcmag.com/the-apple-ipad-what-you-need-to-know.htm
21:11:53 <Arnia> I think we'll only know once the thing is launched
21:12:30 <sbp> why's that?
21:12:36 <sbp> I thought it was surprising they didn't say today
21:13:10 <Arnia> because of marketing realities
21:13:11 <sbp> hmm
21:13:14 <Arnia> you don't split attention
21:13:17 <sbp> Wikipedia lists the OS already
21:13:21 <sbp> says it's iPhone OS 3.2
21:13:27 <sbp> but no footnote
21:13:29 <sbp> gonna {{fact}} it
21:13:32 <Arnia> (or you shouldn't split attention)
21:13:53 <Arnia> "Why did they limit the potential for this product? It could have been infinitely cooler"
21:13:54 <sbp> oh, in the source: | os      = [[iPhone OS]] 3.2 <!-- http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/27/apple-ipad-first-hands-on/ -->
21:14:11 <sbp> “It's running iPhone OS 3.2.”
21:14:14 <sbp> there you go then!
21:14:17 <Arnia> and "Super pretty but not very functional."
21:14:22 <sbp> so this is 3.2
21:15:14 <Arnia> "ATT - No Thanks.Pricing - Eh, for the top tiered end, I could get a used MacBook and a usb 3G card.Tablet - It's features may be wow for some, but I can spend less and have iPod touch or iPhone 2G and do more."
21:15:41 <sbp> “The keyboard is good, not great. Not quite as responsive as it looked in the demos.”
21:16:25 <sbp> http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/ipad-vs-iphone-2.jpg
21:16:32 <sbp> an iPad and an iPhone side by side
21:17:10 <Arnia> I think people expected something that would replace their laptops or desktop machines
21:17:34 <Arnia> ooh, a lot more than three times the volume it appears
21:19:53 <Arnia> Lots of idiotic comments already
21:19:58 <Arnia> apparently it is a crock of FAIL
21:20:10 <sbp> it's way bigger
21:20:36 <Arnia> mm... the battery situation looks more promising then
21:20:38 <sbp> why is it a crock of FAIL?
21:20:43 <Arnia> They don't say
21:20:46 <sbp> what's the most common reason cite... ah
21:20:57 <Arnia> just that they'd rather buy anything other than the iPad
21:21:03 <Arnia> and thus it is a crock of FAIL
21:21:43 <sbp> they'd rather buy anything else in a new product band which is currently, and will for ages be, only occupied by the iPad?
21:21:43 <Arnia> well, they actually say it is a Crock of FAIL (which sounds like an epic quest item from an RPG)
21:21:50 <Arnia> yep
21:21:59 <sbp> the iEpsilon?
21:22:07 <Arnia> Well, they think it is 'just a netbook'
21:22:47 <Arnia> http://gizmodo.com/comment/18783025
21:23:17 <sbp> chuckle
21:23:34 <Arnia> apparently it also isn't the most advanced thing that they've ever worked on
21:23:39 *** xjrn (n=jim@astound-69-42-10-25.ca.astound.net) has joined #swhack
21:23:53 <Arnia> according to someone who knows Apple VPs' CVs better than they do
21:23:57 <sbp> well the Newton 2 was pretty fly
21:24:23 *** jetscreamer (n=jetscrea@unaffiliated/jetscreamer) has joined #swhack
21:24:31 <sbp> funny how things work out
21:24:41 <sbp> would be nice to send a communique back to the past when the Newton 2 came out
21:24:46 <sbp> about what Apple will release in 2010
21:24:54 <Arnia> yeah
21:24:57 <Arnia> I often think that
21:24:59 <sbp> *communiqué
21:25:04 <Arnia> 'wouldn't it be nice to write a letter to the past'
21:25:05 <Arnia> http://gizmodo.com/comment/18782070
21:25:11 <Arnia> missing the point...
21:25:34 <Arnia> I do like people who claim that the iPhone OS isn't a 'full' OS
21:25:40 <Arnia> What the hell is a 'full' OS?
21:26:01 <sbp> the one just below it is even funnier I think
21:26:03 <sbp> “I'm expecting Apple to release 4 or 5 new versions over the next couple years, with a fully-functioning iPad in 2012 or 2013. ”
21:26:18 <sbp> don't worry folks, it'll be fully functioning in 2012 or 2013!
21:27:00 <sbp> because for example it doesn't have a multitouch functionality that other Macs don't have...
21:27:03 <Arnia> apparently the Courier will beat this into the ground if it runs a smooth Win7 install
21:27:22 <Arnia> (the courier, last time I checked, didn't exist... it was an internal concept video)
21:27:27 <sbp> heh
21:27:48 <Arnia> But apparently the Courier is now an iPad kilelr
21:27:51 <Arnia> uh, killer
21:27:53 <sbp> enjoy touching the little tiny windows button bottom left
21:28:00 * Arnia shudders
21:28:06 <Arnia> people really fail to understand that part
21:28:20 <sbp> the "it's not big enough for a desktop OS" part?
21:28:34 <Arnia> they think that WIMP UIs are the best sort of UI possible
21:28:54 <Arnia> and that fingers are as precise as a mouse
21:29:19 <Arnia> (have they ever tried using WiMo? horrible horrible experience even with a stylus)
21:29:51 <sbp> well you can easily replicate the experience
21:29:55 <sbp> just run Windows in a VM
21:29:57 <sbp> and resize the window
21:30:39 <Arnia> that doesn't capture the horror of using a finger to select small buttons
21:30:43 <Arnia> or select text
21:30:56 <sbp> this makes me wonder, by the way, what 3.2 will have to offer the iPhod
21:31:02 <Arnia> (and look at Android's text selection hell for a system which shows that even with multitouch it is hard)
21:31:18 * sbp just added a new layer of punlicious irony to his topic there
21:32:51 <Arnia> Why do people think that the iPad and a laptop are equivalently portable?
21:33:05 <deltab> ooh, someone should write a finger-pointer program: it'd draw a circle on screen instead of a pointer, and clicking would send the click event to a random point in the circle (or possibly somewhere to the lower right)
21:33:52 * Arnia hates WIMP UIs
21:34:31 <Arnia> I actually can't believe we're using them nearly forty years later
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21:35:00 <Arnia> I also think that Apple anti-fanboys are ten times more irritating than Apple fanboys
21:35:10 <deltab> I'm actually using GNOME Do quite a bit now
21:35:24 <deltab> (like QuickSilver)
21:35:43 <sbp> deltab: how would you click? a tap?
21:35:44 <Arnia> "Right now the app store is their main revenue generator, and they are actively taking steps to protect it by denying any form of open development"
21:35:57 <sbp> also, what would be the use of the pointer?
21:35:59 <Arnia> which would be an excellent point... if the evidence backed it up
21:36:32 <sbp> .g "GNOME Do"
21:36:33 <phenny> sbp: http://do.davebsd.com/
21:36:37 <Arnia> (that the financials show that the App Store generates nearly no profit for them shouldn't get in the way of a good comparison with Orwell)
21:36:45 <deltab> wow, almost exactly like Quicksilver
21:36:57 <deltab> .wik GNOME Do
21:36:58 <phenny> "GNOME Do (often referred to as Do) is a popular, free application launcher for Linux originally created by David Siegel,[1]| and currently maintained by Alex Launi." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNOME_Do
21:37:20 <deltab> sbp: capturing the horror
21:37:37 <sbp> except Quicksilver's font is anti-aliased
21:37:41 * sbp winces at the font in http://do.davebsd.com/images/shot.png
21:38:16 <Arnia> Freetype's rendering quality seems to have gotten WORSE lately :/
21:40:25 <Arnia> Right, Gizmodo's commentators lack basic common sense or ability to perform inferencing
21:40:39 * Arnia moves on to MacRumors
21:42:49 <Arnia> sorry, lack of ability to perform basic inferencing and then the smugness with that inability really grates on me
21:43:13 <sbp> I thought it was funny
21:43:27 <sbp> (1) common sense
21:43:34 <sbp> (2) ability to perform inferencing
21:43:44 <sbp> these are things Gizmodo commentators DON'T possess
21:43:59 * sbp is looking at Quicksilver now
21:44:03 <sbp> haven't used it for years
21:44:08 <sbp> never really got the full potential out of it
21:44:20 <sbp> wonder if it could stop me relying on the term so much
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21:45:25 <Arnia> it takes a while to get used to
21:45:36 <Arnia> but is very handy once you do
21:45:50 <Arnia> especially if you write your own applescripts
21:46:00 <sbp> do you still use it?
21:46:00 <Arnia> or automator workflows
21:46:11 <Arnia> I did until September
21:46:13 <sbp> what kind of applescripts and automator workflows do you have hooked up to it?
21:46:21 <sbp> ah. what do you use now?
21:46:28 <Arnia> (it is broken on Snow Leopard)
21:46:32 <sbp> ah, bummer
21:46:43 <Arnia> well, on my snow leopard anyway
21:46:43 <sbp> no fix from September to January? ouch
21:47:03 <sbp> so what kind of applescripts and automator workflows DID you have hooked up to it?
21:47:31 <Arnia> I had scripts for running other apps like adding a new note to DevonTHINK or running a search in DevonAgent or setting up an invoice in Billings
21:47:46 *** hannes_ (n=hannes@sedanet0.sedan.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE) has joined #swhack
21:48:10 <Arnia> new iCal entries, etc
21:48:15 <Arnia> that sort of thing
21:49:00 <Arnia> had one for bibdesk too
21:50:36 <[bjoern]> .gc +Uhrensohn
21:50:37 <phenny> +Uhrensohn: 367
21:50:42 <sbp> reading http://vjarmy.com/archives/2004/03/quicksilver_a_b.php now
21:50:57 <[bjoern]> That's not a space station.
21:53:15 <sbp> .gc Unreason
21:53:16 <phenny> Unreason: 57,700
21:53:24 <sbp> correct
21:53:30 <sbp> it's a moon
21:54:23 <Arnia> sbp: I used to use the menubar UI for Quicksilver
21:54:28 <Arnia> I found it much less intrusive
21:54:33 <sbp> oh? got a screenshot?
21:54:40 <sbp> .img Quicksilver menubar
21:54:41 <phenny> sbp: http://www.markwheadon.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/quicksilver-triggers.png
21:54:42 <phenny> More here: http://images.google.com/images?q=Quicksilver%20menubar
21:56:21 <Arnia> ugh can't find one
21:56:33 <Arnia> basically, it slid in over the menu bar (same size)
21:56:46 <Arnia> very unobtrusive, didn't block any of my work area
22:00:11 <sbp> oh, nice
22:00:15 <Arnia> curious... some people are complaining that Apple called themselves a mobile device company
22:00:20 <sbp> haha
22:00:36 <Arnia> surely that is obvious if you look at their most profitable lines?
22:00:48 <Arnia> (not only most profitable, but with the greatest market share)
22:02:34 <Arnia> yep, lots of complaints about the form factor and that it is boring
22:02:40 *** MacTed has quit ()
22:03:31 *** cori[s] has quit ()
22:05:38 <Arnia> "Sorry guys but this thing is junk and a waste of money if you already have a iPhone or Touch or any old laptop for that matter."
22:05:46 <Arnia> (MacRumors comment at 6.20pm)
22:08:08 <Arnia> same guy two minutes later "Free would be to much for this gadget which is all it really is."
22:10:24 <Arnia> "no flash? . . . so a netbook CAN do more. . . FAIL!!!! It's just an enlarged glorified iPod touch, where is the inovation???"
22:10:34 <Arnia> none so blind...
22:10:43 <Jibbler> my netbook doesn't have a flash
22:11:44 <Arnia> why is the world full of so many prattling fools?
22:12:06 * Arnia kicks a stone despondently
22:19:59 <sbp> no flash is great, means I don't have to install flashblock
22:20:20 <sbp> plus, did you see that story about cutting out flash playing?
22:21:31 <sbp> I didn't see it here originally, but this is all I can find:
22:21:31 <sbp> http://www.iclarified.com/entry/index.php?enid=7261
22:21:59 <Arnia> Vimeo has moved to HTML5 video too
22:22:11 <Arnia> (as an option now, but they hope to drop flash as soon as feasible)
22:22:22 <sbp> oh yeah, heard about that too
22:29:01 <MoiraA> can anyonen please help?
22:29:10 <MoiraA> know something about regular expressions?
22:29:27 <sbp> (yes|no|maybe)
22:29:40 <MoiraA> why would someone do a regex check on me against the network userlist?
22:32:17 *** hannes_ has quit (Client Quit)
22:33:07 <sbp> why would somebody do what with a whatnow?
22:34:42 <MoiraA> sorry let me slow down
22:34:56 <MoiraA> I saw this in #services on Tabmow's network
22:34:58 <MoiraA> Kappimann
22:35:00 <MoiraA> fuck
22:35:02 <MoiraA> sorry
22:35:09 <MoiraA> that user needs voice on chanlev in qnet
22:35:14 <MoiraA> let me do that first
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22:40:45 * Arnia feels like screaming 'Apple do not make substantial money on iTunes' very loudly
22:46:34 <Arnia> moaning that it is going to fail because it doesn't suit your unique needs is one thing; making a claim that is demonstrably false (that Apple's business model is about raking in money through a closed store infrastructure) is quite another. Especially when they wilfully ignore anyone who points this out
22:49:44 <sbp> where's this, apple rumours still?
22:49:54 <Arnia> MacRumors
22:50:03 <Arnia> working forward through the thread
22:50:17 <sbp> I've never looked at any of the comments on any of the mac sites
22:50:23 <sbp> feel rather vindicated in that now :-)
22:50:27 <sbp> are there any good comments at all?
22:50:48 <sbp> and I'm still having major chuckles over the El Reg thread
22:51:09 <sbp> they ran a story that the Catholic Church had "copyrighted" the name and so on of the Pope
22:51:12 <Arnia> 'Its people like you that make Apple think its OK to approach new things with this "cba" attitude.'
22:51:39 <sbp> but the site they linked to wasn't an official Catholic Church mouthpiece, and even it didn't really say copyright, it was just using that as an analogy
22:52:02 <sbp> the actual story was that the Catholic Church had issued a message warning Catholic organisations not to use the Pope's image to endorse things without the Pope actually endorsing things
22:52:13 <Arnia> seems reasonable to me!
22:52:32 <sbp> but out of the 87 or so comments on the Reg story when I checked, only one of them pointed out that actually the Catholic Church weren't trying to put a global copyright on the church
22:52:42 <sbp> everyone else was like "HAHA THEIR SO STUPID"
22:53:10 <sbp> and even the person who pointed out was so absurdly obnoxious about it that I guess this is why everybody ignored him
22:53:48 <sbp> and I checked a few days after and the story still hadn't been corrected
22:54:20 <MoiraA> oh sbp
22:54:27 <sbp> oh Moira
22:54:32 <sbp> we really must stop meeting like this
22:54:35 <MoiraA> losing the will to live
22:54:40 <sbp> heh, what's up?
22:54:56 <MoiraA> why would tab do a regular expression check on me against the network IPs?
22:55:09 <sbp> I have no idea what that means
22:55:14 <sbp> I understand the individual words
22:55:23 <sbp> but in that particular arrangement they are a pretty but baffling snowflake
22:55:24 <MoiraA> probably me
22:55:27 <MoiraA> haha
22:55:54 <Arnia> I find all snowflakes baffling
22:56:07 <Arnia> Apparently everyone sits down at tables permanently
22:56:31 <Arnia> (cos a laptop is better than the iPad for every purpose imaginable)
22:56:59 <sbp> yeah, the nice thing about it is that it's really nicely luggable
22:57:11 <sbp> of course, I'm using an external keyboard
22:57:14 <Arnia> they can't even imagine typing on it in any configuration other than holding with both hands (like an iPhone) or on a table (like a laptop)
22:57:16 <sbp> so especially nice from my point of view
22:58:17 <Arnia> From my point of view, it does everything I want from a mobile platform in a form factor that will be comfortable to use sitting on the sofa or lying in bed or standing at the edge of a packed lecture theatre watching someone deliver a talk
22:59:13 <Arnia> which are situations I can't use either an iPhone or a MacBook in comfortably
22:59:55 <sbp> I suppose from the im/browsing point of view you could run the freenode webchat client in a tab to multitask that out
23:01:05 <Arnia> Or use a bouncer
23:01:21 <Arnia> I mean I IM and use IRC and do other things fine on my phone
23:01:43 <Arnia> the only thing I wish I could do with multitasking would be run Spotify at the same time
23:01:50 <Arnia> that's about it for me though
23:02:16 *** kpreid (n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net) has joined #swhack
23:04:05 <Arnia> I just... I despair at this
23:04:08 <MoiraA> nslater?
23:04:14 <MoiraA> you there?
23:04:28 *** shepazutoo (n=schepers@adsl-227-103-164.rmo.bellsouth.net) has joined #swhack
23:04:30 <MoiraA> in this hour you set aside to get those 400 clone bots ready to run
23:04:41 *** shepazu has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
23:04:44 <MoiraA> did you factor in acquiring oper access?
23:04:44 *** davisp (n=davisp@couchdb/developer/davisp) has joined #swhack
23:04:45 <sbp> ah yeah, someone mentioned Spotify on... engadget I think
23:04:55 <MoiraA> thank you for that sbp
23:04:56 <sbp> MoiraA: I doubt he cares :-)
23:04:58 <sbp> yw
23:05:08 <MoiraA> he should not make claims he can't substantiate
23:05:14 <MoiraA> he really did not look at it
23:05:21 <sbp> well, depending on that setup that could be trivial too
23:05:28 <MoiraA> sbp he must live in a dream :)
23:05:31 <sbp> perhaps there was a particular weak mask used, etc.
23:05:32 <sbp> who?
23:05:44 <MoiraA> he didn't even know - nslater - that freenode was suffering attacks
23:05:54 <sbp> yeah, it was only in one of my channels
23:06:00 <sbp> and that was only a minor event
23:06:03 <MoiraA> they have been here
23:06:13 <sbp> Swhack?
23:06:15 <MoiraA> trouble is, normal stuff looks like the spam in here
23:06:18 <MoiraA> yeah
23:06:24 <sbp> I didn't see 'em
23:06:28 <sbp> reference to logs?
23:06:34 <MoiraA> I have difficulty knowing if it's just [bjoern] and his calculator
23:06:38 <MoiraA> or spam
23:06:41 <sbp> chuckle
23:06:44 <MoiraA> I will see what I can find
23:06:47 <sbp> thanks
23:07:03 <sbp> wow, it's gone 11pm already
23:07:13 *** xjrn has quit (Nick collision from services.)
23:07:27 *** xjrn (n=jim@astound-69-42-10-25.ca.astound.net) has joined #swhack
23:07:34 <sbp> oh yeah, I was trying to trim a startup service
23:07:46 <sbp> where's the bloody OS X startup script?
23:08:50 <Arnia> Um...
23:08:50 <Arnia> .g launchd
23:08:50 <phenny> Arnia: http://developer.apple.com/MacOsX/launchd.html
23:09:03 <sbp> yeah, thanks
23:09:52 <sbp> odd one: /Library/PrivilegedHelperTools/com.barebones.textwrangler
23:10:23 <sbp> ah, most are in /System/Library/LaunchDaemons
23:10:55 <Arnia> Or /Library/LaunchDaemons
23:11:19 <sbp> only one in there
23:11:20 <Arnia> Or /Users/sbp/Library/LaunchDaemons
23:11:25 <sbp> none in there
23:11:31 <sbp> hmm. can't find the one I'm looking for
23:11:48 <sbp> some old crap app I installed ages ago and no longer really use keeps coming up
23:13:16 <Arnia> Easier place to check
23:13:37 <Arnia> System Preferences > Accounts
23:13:40 <Arnia> you look at the advanced settings to set login items
23:13:45 <sbp> yeah, went there first
23:13:46 <Arnia> (which are different from launch services)
23:14:34 <sbp> the parent process of this thing is loginwindow
23:15:11 <Arnia> Yeah, that would be a login item
23:15:19 <Arnia> hm
23:20:04 <sbp> doing a bit more heavy duty grepping now
23:23:17 * sbp tries "sudo launchctl list" too
23:23:52 <sbp> so what manages login items?
23:24:00 <sbp> if not launchd and launchctl
23:26:05 <Arnia> I'm trying to think
23:26:14 <Arnia> there is a LoginItems folder isn't there?
23:26:33 <Arnia> (in each of the Library folders)
23:27:57 <kpreid> I think it's a plist
23:28:24 <kpreid> com.apple.loginitems
23:28:41 <kpreid> the usual UI is system prefs > accounts
23:28:45 <kpreid> Oh, already mentioned
23:28:58 * kpreid also waves to Arnia
23:30:01 <Arnia> hello kpreid
23:30:14 <kpreid> what're you working on these days?
23:31:36 <Arnia> my thesis and a few other ideas
23:31:48 <Arnia> one sec, got to go get the washing out the machine
23:32:31 <kpreid> Arnia: what's your favorite desktop math software (calculator+fancystuff)?
23:36:09 <sbp> still can't find it, sheesh
23:36:14 <Arnia> hrm... it shocks me to say this, but right now probably R
23:36:29 <Arnia> but only because I've finally got R working well enough to produce the graphs for my thesis
23:36:37 <Arnia> and I'm on a bit of a high about it
23:36:41 <kpreid> mm
23:36:59 <kpreid> frankly, I'd love to find a decent tool that doesn't make me type * all the time
23:37:11 <Arnia> For computer aided proofs... something like Isabelle/Izar
23:39:52 <deltab> sbp: Off-Kilter is on BBC2 now
23:39:53 <sbp> kpreid: hypercalc!
23:40:10 <sbp> deltab: oh, thanks. will iPlayer note
23:40:21 <sbp> man, actually, a kind of iPlayer favourites folder would be nice
23:40:54 <sbp> woah!
23:40:55 <sbp> Meades
23:40:57 <sbp> thanks
23:41:08 <kpreid> sbp: does that do vectors and symbolic calcs?
23:41:09 <sbp> wonder why they put it on so late?
23:41:16 <sbp> well, at least it's on BBC 2 not 4
23:41:27 <sbp> kpreid: I don't know. probably not
23:41:33 <kpreid> WELL THEN WHAT GOOD IS IT
23:41:34 <Arnia> This comment is funny
23:41:36 <Arnia> 'Anyone who buys this deserves to be shot!'
23:41:37 <sbp> I'll show you
23:41:44 <kpreid> (I know, actually)
23:41:59 <kpreid> my current tool-i-reach-for is Maxima
23:42:03 <clsn> sbp: by hypercalc do you mean the perl script that can compute shit like 19287293! ?
23:42:06 <kpreid> but it has some ... funky characteristics
23:42:14 <sbp> "19287293!"? haha
23:42:20 <deltab> hmm, an iPlayer plugin for Do...
23:42:23 <clsn> I'm not exaggerating.
23:42:31 <kpreid> it has that old-skool-Lisp flavor
23:42:47 <Arnia> clsn: how long does that take?
23:42:48 <sbp> no, I'm saying you're underselling it
23:42:49 <sbp> C1 = (19287293! ** 19287293! ** 19287293!)!!!
23:42:49 <sbp> R1 = 7.001903 x 10 ^ 132136800
23:42:52 <sbp> instant
23:43:10 <clsn> Oh, OK. So we're talking about the same thing at least.
23:43:13 <sbp> 19287293! is not a test for it, heh
23:43:13 <sbp> R1 = 7.001903 x 10 ^ 132136800
23:43:22 <sbp> (stupid clipboard)
23:43:39 <kpreid> .u x
23:43:39 <phenny> U+0078 LATIN SMALL LETTER X (x)
23:43:41 <kpreid> BOO
23:43:55 <clsn> I've been adding to my XCompose file, woo.
23:43:56 <sbp> C2 = (19287293!!!!! ** 19287293!!!!!!! ** 19287293!!!!!!!)!!!!!!!!!!!! ** 18297489178947128794128741!!!!!!!!!
23:43:57 <sbp> R2 = 4 PT ( 9.252091 x 10 ^ 132136808 )
23:44:01 <sbp> it's like... OVERFLOW, DAMNIT
23:44:19 <sbp> PT is a notation a bit like knuth's up arrow syntax
23:44:24 <sbp> or those Conway arrows or something
23:44:28 <sbp> can't remember what the standards are
23:44:33 <clsn> Yah. He has a page about those too.
23:45:05 <clsn> (ever wonder whether 3**3**3**3 was bigger or smaller than googol factorial?) (that's actually probably an obvious one)
23:45:10 <sbp> heh
23:45:34 <sbp> yeah, basically if you can't stick "(19287293!!!!! ** 19287293!!!!!!! ** 19287293!!!!!!!)!!!!!!!!!!!! ** 18297489178947128794128741!!!!!!!!!" into your calculator and have it give sane output, then it's not really a "calculate"-or now, is it
23:45:40 * Arnia shudders
23:45:41 <clsn> **? That isn't working for me; sure you sholdn't be using ^?
23:45:44 <sbp> it's just shuffling bits around that it doesn't even care about
23:45:58 <sbp> dunno. do you have an old version?
23:46:16 <clsn> what do you get for 3**3?
23:46:23 <clsn> I get 3.
23:46:35 <sbp> oh, you're right. same here
23:46:38 <sbp> stupid calculator
23:46:40 <sbp> C4 = (19287293!!!!! ^ 19287293!!!!!!! ^ 19287293!!!!!!!)!!!!!!!!!!!! ^ 18297489178947128794128741!!!!!!!!!
23:46:40 <sbp> R4 = 20 PT ( 9.252091 x 10 ^ 132136808 )
23:46:47 <sbp> (still instant)
23:46:51 <clsn> yep.
23:48:10 <sbp> “Jonathan Meades takes a quixotic tour of Scotland, a country which has intrigued him since he first encountered lists of towns only known from football coupons”
23:48:13 <clsn> 3^3^3^3 < (10^100)! < 3^3^3^3^3
23:51:08 * clsn looks into adding Term::ReadLine to hypercalc; it's annoying that ↑ doesn't work.
23:54:12 <sbp> hehe
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23:55:10 <clsn> Never used Term::ReadLine before, but hey, how hard can it be?
23:55:25 <sbp> hmm
23:55:26 <sbp> ~/Library/Preferences
23:55:26 <sbp> $ PlistBuddy -x -c Print loginwindow.plist
23:55:29 <sbp> it's not in there either
23:56:28 <kpreid> sbp: what are you looking for?
23:57:00 <sbp> me? a program which is being run on startup
23:57:14 <sbp> I can't find where it's being started from though
23:57:16 <sbp> which is peculiar
23:57:58 <kpreid> did you check com.apple.loginitems.plist ?
23:58:22 <kpreid> did you check LaunchAgents as well as LaunchDaemons?
23:58:28 <kpreid> (I forget what the difference is)
23:58:39 <kpreid> did you check the system-wide loginwindow.plist?
23:59:46 <tav> .log pointer
23:59:55 <sbp> loggy: uri?
23:59:55 <loggy> http://swhack.com/logs/2010-01-27#T23-59-55